From michael at spacerocksinc.com Thu Jan 1 00:11:40 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:11:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 1, 2009 Message-ID: <6769830.56041230786700899.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_1_2009.html From mlblood at cox.net Thu Jan 1 02:14:36 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:14:36 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Show Auction now "up" In-Reply-To: <6769830.56041230786700899.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: HAPPY NEW YEAR! The Tucson Meteorite Auction on-line catalog is now complete? It has 78 lots offered. For the first time, all of the original lots are NO MINIMUM BID. That means wide open bidding for everyone - ANY bid could win. See on-line auction catalog at: -- http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson09.html -- People need to email in their absentee bids NOW. If you do not get a Confirmation within 24hrs, something went wrong - please email me again. Absentee bids will give you an excellent opportunity to buy as though you were at the auction, even from Europe. You offer your highest bid And are automatically "bid up" only with the live bidding, so, you could get it well below your maximum. There are still plenty of spaces for more entries, especially for $3K and up items, which are lacking so far, even though we have some really choice mid-range items. Remember we will be in the old location where the 4 auctions before The last location (in 2008) were held. Email in your absentee bids and any remaining entries. Best wishes to all, Michael PS: I'm starting to get TUCSON FEVER! From meteoriteshow at free.fr Thu Jan 1 06:04:18 2009 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 12:04:18 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending soon Message-ID: <12C8684CE974407DB15B2D167942FC73@john> Dear All, First of all i wish you all a very Happy and Propserous New Year, may your dreams come true and many new "stardusts" join your collections!!! Saturday is the day our auctions end and this week again you can find some interesting meteorites at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmeteoriteshow Eight different meteorites are offered this week: 1- Al Haggounia 001 PRIM. AUB. - 64.5g Slice: Quite a large slice, still at a low price so far... http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-Al-Haggounia-001-PRIM-AUB-64-5g-Slice_W0QQitemZ330295295887QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295295887&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 2- CHERGACH H5 - 11.3g indiv - WITNESSED FALL!: This Chergach individual is not very big but really beautiful... About 95% fusion crusted, with both primary and secondary fusion crust... Have a look at it! http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-CHERGACH-H5-11-3g-indiv-WITNESSED-FALL_W0QQitemZ330295295942QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295295942&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 3- HaH254 L5-6 - 15.6g full slice: A full slice of this nice L5-6 meteorite with fusion crust all around the edges... do you want it? Then have a look at: http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-HaH254-L5-6-15-6g-full-slice_W0QQitemZ330295296028QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295296028&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 4- NWA XXX - 0.9g Partslice - HOWARDITE: Still at starting price, this is one of the last opportunities to get a piece if this very fresh Howardite on ebay... http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-NWA-XXX-0-9g-Partslice-HOWARDITE_W0QQitemZ330295296088QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295296088&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 5- SAH 02500 L3 - 81.3g fragment: $1.00 at the moment, this is the level reached by this 70% fusion crusted fragment of Sahara 02500... Good Deal! http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-SAH-02500-L3-81-3g-fragment_W0QQitemZ330295296174QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295296174&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 6- SAH 03502 LL3 - 141.1g partslice: With its heart's shape, this partslice of Sahara 03502 should make you fall in love with it! So if you are afraid to fall in love, don't look at: http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-SAH-03502-LL3-141-1g-partslice_W0QQitemZ330295296306QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295296306&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 7- TATAHOUINE DIO - 1.5g - WITNESSED FALL!: Still at starting price and no bids yet, you can get 4 fragments of Tatahouine weighing 1.5g all together for $1.00 only! http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-TATAHOUINE-DIO-1-5g-WITNESSED-FALL_W0QQitemZ330295296328QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295296328&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 8- ZAG H3-6 - 12.0g frag. - WITNESSED FALL!: Displaying both a slickenside and the usual breccia of this famous meteorite, here is a nice fragment of ZAG still at $1.00... So have a look at: http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-ZAG-H3-6-12-0g-frag-WITNESSED-FALL_W0QQitemZ330295296380QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295296380&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 Thanks a lot for watching and once again HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! Frederic Beroud http://www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA #2491 From grf2 at verizon.net Thu Jan 1 07:18:47 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 07:18:47 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 1, 2009 References: <6769830.56041230786700899.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: you rock!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Johnson" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:11 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 1, 2009 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_1_2009.html > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 1 11:47:53 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 08:47:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] happy new everyone Message-ID: <873952.45790.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi and good morning list.I want to personally wish everyone here on this great list a happy and prosperous new year and a very safe 2009.For me my biggest wish is to get back to work and stay working and get more sikote-alin meteorites.I also look forward to seeing everyone in tucson in 5 weeks.Have a great day everyone. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Thu Jan 1 12:33:01 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 09:33:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Year Freebie - Move Quick! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <615145.73798.qm@web58404.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Listees! To celebrate the coming of 2009, I am offering a mystery freebie meteorite to the first two CONUS residents to who respond to this post. I am giving away a free stony meteorite and a free iron meteorite. Both are small, but are quite nice for their small size. The first responder will get their choice of stone or iron. The second responder will get the other specimen not taken by responder #1. This offer is open to CONUS residents only. If I get a flood of responses, I will reply to the "winners" of the freebies, and will post a "stop" notice to the list to let everyone else know that the freebies are taken. Happy New Year and clear skies! :) MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From dave at fallingrocks.com Thu Jan 1 16:57:06 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 16:57:06 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 099 Message-ID: <9DF2552AD7854C54804C2A3435A36DA5@meteorroom> All, If anyone has a large specimen, uses the black and aluminum meteorite labels and would like a custom NWA 099 bent label, shoot me an OFF LIST reponse and I'll send it away... HNY, Dave Dave Gheesling IMCA #5967 www.fallingrocks.com From eric at meteoritewatch.com Thu Jan 1 17:55:11 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 14:55:11 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Links... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <495D49CF.6020401@meteoritewatch.com> Hi all, Happy 2009! In the spirit of the new year I'm giving away links from my site. Meteorites USA is ranked in the top 10% of all meteorite sites on the web for a large number of keywords. Dealers need traffic to make sales and move material in this bad economy. With slow sales and tight budgets you guys might need some more traffic. So here it is... If you own a website and want a link from a highly ranked site you can add your website here: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-links/ Enjoy... Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From mlblood at cox.net Thu Jan 1 19:25:14 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 16:25:14 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Year Freebie - Move Quick! In-Reply-To: <615145.73798.qm@web58404.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: OK, I plead ignorance..... WHAT IS CONUS? Michael on 1/1/09 9:33 AM, Michael Gilmer at michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com wrote: > Hi Listees! > > To celebrate the coming of 2009, I am offering a mystery freebie > meteorite to the first two CONUS residents to who respond to this > post. > > I am giving away a free stony meteorite and a free iron meteorite. > > Both are small, but are quite nice for their small size. > > The first responder will get their choice of stone or iron. > > The second responder will get the other specimen not taken by responder #1. > > This offer is open to CONUS residents only. > > If I get a flood of responses, I will reply to the "winners" of the > freebies, and will post a "stop" notice to the list to let everyone > else know that the freebies are taken. > > Happy New Year and clear skies! :) > > MikeG > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Get 30% to 50% more gas mileage immediately (I did!): http://go4best.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/ From freewu2000 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 1 21:21:13 2009 From: freewu2000 at yahoo.com (Howard Wu) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 18:21:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] LATimes- Comet hits North America 13, 000 years ago In-Reply-To: <495D49CF.6020401@meteoritewatch.com> Message-ID: <311779.79797.qm@web52209.mail.re2.yahoo.com> E.P. Grondine is going to love this one mr. wu http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-extinction2-2009jan02,0,896970.story >From the Los Angeles Times Diamonds show comet struck North America, scientists say The impact caused an ice age that killed some mammal species and many humans 12,900 years ago, researchers report. They say the discovery of tiny heat-formed diamonds is proof of the catastrophe. By Thomas H. Maugh II 1:11 PM PST, January 1, 2009 A thin layer of miniature gemstones called nanodiamonds in North American soil provides the strongest evidence yet that a comet struck the continent nearly 13,000 years ago, triggering a mini-ice age that wiped out many species of mammals and interrupted the culture of early humans for hundreds of years. Researchers had earlier discovered the thin layer of black soil containing iridium and other debris suggestive of a massive comet or meteor impact, but critics had suggested a variety of less dire explanations. The discovery of the nanodiamonds, however, reported today in the journal Science, provides the most powerful support for the comet theory because the gems can only be created under the extreme temperatures and pressures of a massive explosion, such as a comet striking the Earth's surface. "There's no other way we can interpret the presence of these diamonds other than an extraterrestrial impact," said paleooceanographer James P. Kennett of UC Santa Barbara, one of the authors of the paper. Such an impact would be the most likely source of nanodiamonds, critics agreed, but many argued that the one-page paper in Science does not provide enough evidence to support the authors' claim. "Nanodiamonds could be a good indicator of an impact event . . . but after reading the paper, I wasn't convinced they found diamonds," said physicist Tyrone Daulton of Washington University in St. Louis. "Maybe they found diamonds, and maybe they didn't." Added spectroscopist Peter Buseck of Arizona State University, "I wouldn't question that they saw nanodiamonds," but for such a potentially important discovery, "I would like to have it well-supported." Archaeologist Douglas J. Kennett of the University of Oregon, lead author of the report and James Kennett's son, conceded that the restrictive format of the rapid publication limited the amount of data the team could incorporate. But he said the presence of nanodiamonds had now been confirmed in three separate laboratories: "There are going to be a lot of follow-up papers that will clearly demonstrate that these are diamonds." The new findings may tie together a variety of hitherto mysterious events in North America that all occurred around the same time. Beginning about 12,900 years ago, North America -- and perhaps the entire world -- entered a 1,300-year-long period of profound cooling known as the Younger Dryas, and often colloquially called the "Big Freeze." About that same time, at least 35 species of large mammals, such as the woolly mammoth, camels and mastodons, disappeared forever. The period also saw an end to the Paleo-Indian Clovis culture characteristic of the first inhabitants of the continent. Other evidence indicates a massive decrease in salinity in the Gulf of Mexico at the beginning of the event, caused by melting of the Laurentide ice sheet in Canada. The influx of water into the gulf sharply changed circulation patterns in the Atlantic Ocean, which may be the proximate cause of the cooling event. The Kennetts and their colleagues have previously reported the discovery of a thick mat of black soil radiocarbon-dated to 12,900 years ago at 10 archaeological sites scattered around the continent. The layer contains iridium, carbon spherules and fullerenes containing helium-3, all characteristic of an extraterrestrial impact. Critics, however, said the evidence was insufficient to prove an impact, particularly in the absence of a demonstrable crater. James Kennett and his colleagues went back to the mats they had collected and performed what he termed the "extremely labor-intensive" process of looking for the nanodiamonds. That involved using acids to dissolve everything else in the samples, then using a variety of techniques to identify the diamond residue. They found a family of at least five different forms of diamonds, including some that are formed only by impacts, they reported in the Science paper. Moreover, the nanodiamonds were found only at the bottom of the black mat -- not in the soil either below or above it. What the team now believes is that a comet struck North America 12,900 years ago, breaking into pieces before reaching the ground. Heat from the massive explosions melted the Laurentide glacier and set off wildfires all over the continent, leading to the deaths of large numbers of animals -- and people. In a series of papers presented last week at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union, the team also reported that at least 15 of the 35 species that became extinct during the Younger Dryas -- including camels, mammoths, mastodons, the short-faced bear, the giant beaver, the dire wolf and the American lion -- disappeared within 100 years of the event. Their fossils appear "right up to the base of the black mat and never go above it," James Kennett said. The other species may have been hunted to extinction by humans, as has often been speculated, but only after their numbers were greatly reduced by the fires and climate change. There was also a "major population crash" of humans, he added. In the Great Plains, all traces of humans disappeared for about 200 years, he noted. The effects were more severe in what is now Southern California, with evidence of human occupation disappearing for most of the Younger Dryas. He is convinced that there was a cometary impact. "I've counted up 15 major things that occurred at 12,900 years ago. I'd like somebody to explain that to me in some other way." thomas.maugh at latimes.com From bristolia at yahoo.com Thu Jan 1 23:31:48 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 20:31:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] URLs for "Comet hits North America 13, 000 years ago" Science paper Message-ID: <96764.74652.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In "LATimes- Comet hits North America 13, 000 years ago" at: http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2009-January/048575.html , Howard Wu wrote: "E.P. Grondine is going to love this one http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-extinction2-2009jan02,0,896970.story >From the Los Angeles Times Diamonds show comet struck North America, scientists say The impact caused an ice age that killed some mammal species and many humans 12,900 years ago, researchers report. They say the discovery of tiny heat-formed diamonds is proof of the catastrophe. By Thomas H. Maugh, January 1, 2009" Another article is "Six North American Sites Hold 12,900-year-old Nanodiamond-rich Soil", ScienceDaily Jan. 1, 2009. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090101172136.htm The above articles refer to: Kennett, D. J., J. P. Kennett, A. West, C. Mercer, S. S. Que Hee, L. Bement, T. E. Bunch, M. Sellers, and W. S. Wolbach, 2009, Nanodiamonds in the Younger Dryas Boundary Sediment Layer. Science. vol. 323. no. 5910, p. 94. DOI: 10.1126/science.1162819 http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/323/5910/94 Commentary on this article can be found in: Kerr, R. A., 2009, PLANETARY IMPACTS: Did the Mammoth Slayer Leave a Diamond Calling Card? Science., vol. 323. no. 5910, p. 26. DOI: 10.1126/science.323.5910.26 http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/323/5910/26 Tomorrow, while at work I will download the PDF files for the paper and article and have a look at them. Best Regards, Paul H From bristolia at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 01:41:10 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 22:41:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Sedimentary Meteorites Message-ID: <52254.41595.qm@web36205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Stone 6: artificial sedimentary meteorites in space. Geophysical Research Abstracts,Vol. 10, EGU2008-A-04592, 2008SRef-ID: 1607-7962/gra/EGU2008-A-04592EGU General Assembly 2008, PDF file at: http://www.cosis.net/abstracts/EGU2008/04592/EGU2008-A-04592.pdf STONE 6: artificial sedimentary meteorites in space. Lunar and Planetary Science XXXIX (2008) PDF file at: http://oro.open.ac.uk/12494/1/1538.pdf Foucher, F., F. Westall, J.-M. Beny, F. Brandstatter, and R. Demets, Can microfossils in a meteor survive atmospheric entry. EPSC Abstracts. vol. 3, EPSC2008-A-00273.(European Planetary Science Congress) PDF file at: http://cosis.net/abstracts/EPSC2008/00273/EPSC2008-A-00273-1.pdf Yours, Paul H. From bobl at peaktopeak.com Fri Jan 2 02:30:00 2009 From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 00:30:00 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Year Freebie - Move Quick! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090102073000.C398D1055B@mailwash5.pair.com> CONUS = CONtinental US = "the lower 48" = the 48 contiguous states = all of the US states except Hawaii and Alaska. See "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_United_States" I had never heard of CONUS until I saw it in a dealer's ad here on the meteorite list a few months ago. Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael L Blood Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 5:25 PM To: Michael Gilmer IMCA candidate; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Year Freebie - Move Quick! OK, I plead ignorance..... WHAT IS CONUS? Michael on 1/1/09 9:33 AM, Michael Gilmer at michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com wrote: > Hi Listees! > > To celebrate the coming of 2009, I am offering a mystery freebie > meteorite to the first two CONUS residents to who respond to this > post. > > I am giving away a free stony meteorite and a free iron meteorite. > > Both are small, but are quite nice for their small size. > > The first responder will get their choice of stone or iron. > > The second responder will get the other specimen not taken by responder #1. > > This offer is open to CONUS residents only. > > If I get a flood of responses, I will reply to the "winners" of the > freebies, and will post a "stop" notice to the list to let everyone > else know that the freebies are taken. > > Happy New Year and clear skies! :) > > MikeG > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Get 30% to 50% more gas mileage immediately (I did!): http://go4best.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/ ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Fri Jan 2 02:52:09 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 01:52:09 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Year Freebie - Move Quick! References: <20090102073000.C398D1055B@mailwash5.pair.com> Message-ID: <006801c96caf$0449c5b0$8955e146@ATARIENGINE> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_United_States "The U.S. military also has a technical term which is specifically defined as the 48 contiguous states, but is silent on the District of Columbia: CONUS." Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "'Meteorite List'" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 1:30 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Year Freebie - Move Quick! CONUS = CONtinental US = "the lower 48" = the 48 contiguous states = all of the US states except Hawaii and Alaska. See "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_United_States" I had never heard of CONUS until I saw it in a dealer's ad here on the meteorite list a few months ago. Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael L Blood Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 5:25 PM To: Michael Gilmer IMCA candidate; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Year Freebie - Move Quick! OK, I plead ignorance..... WHAT IS CONUS? Michael on 1/1/09 9:33 AM, Michael Gilmer at michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com wrote: > Hi Listees! > > To celebrate the coming of 2009, I am offering a mystery freebie > meteorite to the first two CONUS residents to who respond to this > post. > > I am giving away a free stony meteorite and a free iron meteorite. > > Both are small, but are quite nice for their small size. > > The first responder will get their choice of stone or iron. > > The second responder will get the other specimen not taken by responder #1. > > This offer is open to CONUS residents only. > > If I get a flood of responses, I will reply to the "winners" of the > freebies, and will post a "stop" notice to the list to let everyone > else know that the freebies are taken. > > Happy New Year and clear skies! :) > > MikeG > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Get 30% to 50% more gas mileage immediately (I did!): http://go4best.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/ ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Fri Jan 2 02:55:27 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 01:55:27 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Year Freebie - Move Quick! References: <20090102073000.C398D1055B@mailwash5.pair.com> <006801c96caf$0449c5b0$8955e146@ATARIENGINE> Message-ID: <006f01c96caf$7a803930$8955e146@ATARIENGINE> Whoops! Didn't mean to double-answer. I read the first post but answered the second thinking it was the first. Bad timing. Sterling ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sterling K. Webb" To: "Bob Loeffler" ; "'Meteorite List'" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 1:52 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Year Freebie - Move Quick! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_United_States "The U.S. military also has a technical term which is specifically defined as the 48 contiguous states, but is silent on the District of Columbia: CONUS." Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Loeffler" To: "'Meteorite List'" Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 1:30 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Year Freebie - Move Quick! CONUS = CONtinental US = "the lower 48" = the 48 contiguous states = all of the US states except Hawaii and Alaska. See "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_United_States" I had never heard of CONUS until I saw it in a dealer's ad here on the meteorite list a few months ago. Regards, Bob -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael L Blood Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 5:25 PM To: Michael Gilmer IMCA candidate; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Year Freebie - Move Quick! OK, I plead ignorance..... WHAT IS CONUS? Michael on 1/1/09 9:33 AM, Michael Gilmer at michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com wrote: > Hi Listees! > > To celebrate the coming of 2009, I am offering a mystery freebie > meteorite to the first two CONUS residents to who respond to this > post. > > I am giving away a free stony meteorite and a free iron meteorite. > > Both are small, but are quite nice for their small size. > > The first responder will get their choice of stone or iron. > > The second responder will get the other specimen not taken by responder #1. > > This offer is open to CONUS residents only. > > If I get a flood of responses, I will reply to the "winners" of the > freebies, and will post a "stop" notice to the list to let everyone > else know that the freebies are taken. > > Happy New Year and clear skies! :) > > MikeG > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Get 30% to 50% more gas mileage immediately (I did!): http://go4best.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/ ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael at spacerocksinc.com Fri Jan 2 06:25:17 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 03:25:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 2, 2009 Message-ID: <30173558.121071230895517633.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_2_2009.html From mlblood at cox.net Fri Jan 2 08:27:17 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 05:27:17 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] CONUS In-Reply-To: <20090102073000.C398D1055B@mailwash5.pair.com> Message-ID: Thanks everyone (got a ton of OFF LIST email on this), So, when we had King George(W) in rule, POTUS ran the CONUS but deserved no bonus cuz his style was so bogus. I think I got the locus - so now let's refocus. Thanks, again, Michael on 1/1/09 11:30 PM, Bob Loeffler at bobl at peaktopeak.com wrote: > CONUS = CONtinental US = "the lower 48" = the 48 contiguous states = all of > the US states except Hawaii and Alaska. See > "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_United_States" > > I had never heard of CONUS until I saw it in a dealer's ad here on the > meteorite list a few months ago. > > Regards, > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael L > Blood > Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 5:25 PM > To: Michael Gilmer IMCA candidate; Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Year Freebie - Move Quick! > > OK, > I plead ignorance..... WHAT IS CONUS? > Michael > > on 1/1/09 9:33 AM, Michael Gilmer at michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com wrote: > >> Hi Listees! >> >> To celebrate the coming of 2009, I am offering a mystery freebie >> meteorite to the first two CONUS residents to who respond to this >> post. >> >> I am giving away a free stony meteorite and a free iron meteorite. >> >> Both are small, but are quite nice for their small size. >> >> The first responder will get their choice of stone or iron. >> >> The second responder will get the other specimen not taken by responder > #1. >> >> This offer is open to CONUS residents only. >> >> If I get a flood of responses, I will reply to the "winners" of the >> freebies, and will post a "stop" notice to the list to let everyone >> else know that the freebies are taken. >> >> Happy New Year and clear skies! :) >> >> MikeG >> >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale >> .......................................................... >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > Get 30% to 50% more gas mileage immediately (I did!): > http://go4best.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/ > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Get 30% to 50% more gas mileage immediately (I did!): http://go4best.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/ From dave at fallingrocks.com Fri Jan 2 10:39:15 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:39:15 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 2, 2009 In-Reply-To: <30173558.121071230895517633.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> References: <30173558.121071230895517633.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: <07E1F4FAD6904CAAAD54B0F00E3B3536@meteorroom> Great post, Michael! What a stunning specimen, and it's great to see that Svend's superb work continues to be picked up by the community... Happy New Year to all, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Johnson Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 6:25 AM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 2,2009 http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_2_2009.html ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gsac at gmx.net Fri Jan 2 11:44:50 2009 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 17:44:50 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 2, 2009 In-Reply-To: <07E1F4FAD6904CAAAD54B0F00E3B3536@meteorroom> References: <30173558.121071230895517633.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> <07E1F4FAD6904CAAAD54B0F00E3B3536@meteorroom> Message-ID: <20090102164450.98490@gmx.net> Doesn?t this great (!) specimen show that uncleaned iron individuals, at least in some cases (Gibeon, Sikhote-Alin, Canyon Diablo, Henbury etc..), can be much more appealing to our eyes than their cleaned counterparts? Well, I for my part think so. But as always: it may just be a matter of perspective and it ultimately lies in the eyes of the beholder... Happy New Year all, Alex Berlin/Germany -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:39:15 -0500 > Von: "Dave Gheesling" > An: "\'Michael Johnson\'" , "\'Meteorite List\'" > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 2, 2009 > Great post, Michael! What a stunning specimen, and it's great to see that > Svend's superb work continues to be picked up by the community... > Happy New Year to all, > Dave > www.fallingrocks.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael > Johnson > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 6:25 AM > To: Meteorite List > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January > 2,2009 > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_2_2009.html > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From epgrondine at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 12:14:43 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:14:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] New AGU presentation on Holocene Start Impacts Message-ID: <981666.20614.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Wu, all - One of the frustrating things for me commercially in this is if you go to amazon for Dr. Firestone's book, you'll find that the usual set of frauds, the ones who screwed me so magnificently, have their books at the bottom of the page for his book. (I except Ed Malkowsky and Andrew Collins from this.) However, when life hands you lemons, you make a lemon meringue pie, and in this case I have a mile high already made - "Amazing Stories", my guide inside the lunatic fringe. Write me for a free copy - another freebie for Monday! I don't know if my own amazon sales site is even working, so I don't expect much of a sales bounce from this, but it will help next powwow season, if I get that far. Of course, the big news is Tankersley's one inch thick layer of cometary impactites near Sandusky, and the search for one of the holocene start impact sites in Canada. I am hoping for Mike Griffin's speedy departure as NASA Administrator, and hoping that he takes Dr. Morrison along with him. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From p.marmet at sunrise.ch Fri Jan 2 12:31:41 2009 From: p.marmet at sunrise.ch (Peter Marmet) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 18:31:41 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 2, 2009 In-Reply-To: <20090102164450.98490@gmx.net> References: <30173558.121071230895517633.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> <07E1F4FAD6904CAAAD54B0F00E3B3536@meteorroom> <20090102164450.98490@gmx.net> Message-ID: <871799a20901020931r774f1954k9675f3fdc6d5c812@mail.gmail.com> Alexander Seidel wrote: > Doesn?t this great (!) specimen show that uncleaned iron individuals, at > least in some cases (Gibeon, Sikhote-Alin, Canyon Diablo, Henbury etc..), > can be much more appealing to our eyes than their cleaned counterparts? Hi Alex and All! I agree 100%! Please see a few more picts of natural patina individuals here: http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id25.html Cheers, Peter Peter Marmet Bern, Switzerland IMCA #2747 p.marmet at mysunrise.ch http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 12:36:07 2009 From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:36:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Carancas Message-ID: <89887.71005.qm@web33204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >From astronomy magazine. http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.aspx?c=a&id=6726 Have a great day Steve From paul at meteorite.com Fri Jan 2 13:42:58 2009 From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:42:58 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy New Year - Ruben Garcia - Dealers List - Tucson Info Message-ID: <495E6032.7070005@meteorite.com> Happy New Year and Best Wishes to Everyone! For those of you who've been looking for Ruben Garcia's website, he has moved his articles and video listings to The Meteorite Exchange. All of Rubens articles are up and I should have all Ruben's videos listed a few days after we post the January issue of Meteorite-Times. Ruben is listed under the Information menu. Direct URL is http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ To all Meteorite Dealers: This is our annual request for you to verify your information on our Meteorite Dealers Listing page http://www.meteorite.com/dealer_list.htm Please reply off list with any changes. Changes will be made a few days after we get Meteorite-Times up. To all of you who are soon to be Tucson bound please add your information to our Tucson Information page. Our Tucson Information page is found on Meteorite-Times. Information page here: http://www.meteorite-times.com/tucson/ Add your Tucson information here: http://www.meteorite-times.com/tucson/form/ Thank you! Paul and Jim From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 17:54:13 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 14:54:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] the new fall in morroco tichka dn tahanout region Message-ID: <900091.84808.qm@web62007.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hi listoids, first happy new year. i get a sample today from what is supposed to be the new fall; i heard there is found some, i see that there are some?grad of weathering already, it look like and h3 or h4, may be it fall in snow and become so weathered , when i polish without water it look fresh inside also when i brook the sample its lloks fresh, the crust also i will be sur once its classified, http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/ see photo here and tell me what do you think, and for you to judge. my best aziz habibi ?habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 18:31:01 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 15:31:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] the new fall contunue// tichka mountains Message-ID: <26643.2143.qm@web62005.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hi again just a short note to say, that there is may be many kilos found and there is a fight for it,split on 3 places,an area of more than 4000 km square. taddart tahanout and tichka , could be more places as far as things goes we will hear defenitly tomorow of the aproximate amount of kilo's, the center of the fall is may be tichka mountain full of snow now, according to the fireball and the sonic boum its big. it become from houre to houre sur that its sur that the sample i get is from the new fall; my best aziz habibi ?habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From riffraff at timewarp.de Fri Jan 2 18:43:39 2009 From: riffraff at timewarp.de (Norbert Classen) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 00:43:39 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] RE: Happy New Year - Ruben Garcia In-Reply-To: <495E6032.7070005@meteorite.com> References: <495E6032.7070005@meteorite.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, and All, A Happy, Healthy and Prosper New Year to you all. Did anyone have a look at Ruben's old URL - there's an article about meteorite hunting on this new site that sounds pretty (babel-)fishy... If you want to have a good laugh have a look at: http://www.mr-meteorite.com/treasure-hunting-for-meteorites/ There's a great definition of "meteorite", for example: "A healthy intent imagining in outdoor space which survives a stroke with a earth?s aspect is called a meteorite." Hmmm.... ;-? My favorite howler: "Be unequivocally clever with singular earth magnets since they will repairs credit cards, dungeon phones, computers, PDAs as well as alternative electronic equipment." Good advise, huh? I'm just wondering where I could possibly get such a darn dungeon phone! Any dungeolar for sale ,-? All the best, Norbert -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Happy New Year and Best Wishes to Everyone! For those of you who've been looking for Ruben Garcia's website, he has moved his articles and video listings to The Meteorite Exchange. All of Rubens articles are up and I should have all Ruben's videos listed a few days after we post the January issue of Meteorite-Times. Ruben is listed under the Information menu. Direct URL is http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ To all Meteorite Dealers: This is our annual request for you to verify your information on our Meteorite Dealers Listing page http://www.meteorite.com/dealer_list.htm Please reply off list with any changes. Changes will be made a few days after we get Meteorite-Times up. To all of you who are soon to be Tucson bound please add your information to our Tucson Information page. Our Tucson Information page is found on Meteorite-Times. Information page here: http://www.meteorite-times.com/tucson/ Add your Tucson information here: http://www.meteorite-times.com/tucson/form/ Thank you! Paul and Jim ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jan 2 18:57:36 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 02 Jan 2009 23:57:36 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Humor Alert! => Meteorite Dungeon: Was Ruben Garcia Message-ID: Norbert jokingly: "Good advise, huh? I'm just wondering where I could possibly get such a darn dungeon phone! Any dungeolar for sale ,-? Ahem, ... what about the London Tower??? If they can't help, you might surely ask Henry VIII or one of his beheaded loved ones :-)) Bernd From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Fri Jan 2 19:10:52 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:10:52 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Estherville, Mesosiderite Micrographs Message-ID: Hi list, I just took some very beautiful micrographs of Estherville, Iowa, Mesosiderite. This meteorite fell May 10,1879. The magnification is approximately 160X with a field of view of 0.40 mm taken in cross polarized transmitted light. If any one wants to take a look, just email me. 11 shots embedded (no files to open up). Tom Phillips **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 19:22:19 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 16:22:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] the new fall contunue// tichka mountains In-Reply-To: <26643.2143.qm@web62005.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <638978.56683.qm@web110614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> What do you mean 4000KM 2, this would be one of the largest falls known. I have not heard much about it, so I doubt that it could be that impressive. More likely pieces of a fresh chondrite, or chergach, or Bassikounou. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 1/2/09, habibi abdelaziz wrote: > From: habibi abdelaziz > Subject: [meteorite-list] the new fall contunue// tichka mountains > To: "meteorite list" > Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 4:31 PM > hi again > just a short note to say, > that there is may be many kilos found and there is a fight > for it,split on 3 places,an area of more than 4000 km > square. > taddart tahanout and tichka , could be more places as far > as things goes we will hear defenitly tomorow of the > aproximate amount of kilo's, > the center of the fall is may be tichka mountain full of > snow now, according to the fireball and the sonic boum its > big. > it become from houre to houre sur that its sur that the > sample i get is from the new fall; > > my best > aziz habibi > > ? face="comic sans ms">habibi aziz > box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > phone. 21235576145 > fax.21235576170 > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Fri Jan 2 19:24:06 2009 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:24:06 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad/sale Etched Taza added to my web site Message-ID: <468bf6050901021624q23145915h981b7aabce529cf9@mail.gmail.com> Hi all I have added a couple VERY nice end cuts of the Taza Plessetic octahedrite meteorite to my site you can see them here http://www.meteoritefinder.com/whats-new-sale.htm Thanks -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From mmurray at montrose.net Fri Jan 2 19:21:07 2009 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 17:21:07 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone in the area of Tok Alaska? Message-ID: <2C766F69-5E64-4FA8-82B2-779E900636AC@montrose.net> Possible bolide in that area today. Mike in CO From daistiho at hotmail.com Fri Jan 2 19:40:30 2009 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 00:40:30 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy New Year - Ruben Garcia In-Reply-To: References: <495E6032.7070005@meteorite.com> Message-ID: It looks like the new owner ported all his old blog entries over to the site. He has entries going back into 2005, at which time I know Ruben still controlled it. Howlers indeed! Tracy Latimer ---------------------------------------- > From: riffraff at timewarp.de > To: paul at meteorite.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 00:43:39 +0100 > Subject: [meteorite-list] RE: Happy New Year - Ruben Garcia > > Hi Paul, and All, > > A Happy, Healthy and Prosper New Year to you all. > > Did anyone have a look at Ruben's old URL - there's an article about > meteorite hunting on this new site that sounds pretty (babel-)fishy... If > you want to have a good laugh have a look at: > > http://www.mr-meteorite.com/treasure-hunting-for-meteorites/ > _________________________________________________________________ It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008 From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jan 2 19:35:00 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 03 Jan 2009 00:35:00 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Estherville pic Message-ID: Good morning Tom and List, Well, good morning because it's 01:40 our time and I had better go to bed now! Always interested as you probably know! Here's one of my Estherville pics that I took some years ago. Magnification is "only" 8x, but so beautiful, so very color- ful!!! All the best for 2009, Bernd From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Fri Jan 2 21:16:19 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 18:16:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Re : the new fall contunue// tichka mountains References: <638978.56683.qm@web110614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <601785.25751.qm@web62001.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hi mike 4000km power 2 means 100 km* 40km. that's mean it has been heard over irghem and over tichka and over tahenout so between all its over 4000 km square , not exponential, it has been seen over?the third of morroco;so calculate and you will see, the fireball make the entry in atmosphere and true meteorite all along the tragectory, this what has happened to zag more than 4000 km??, and to amgala more than 5000 km?, and most of the falls, so question of how you say 4000km?.you do the square root of 4000km? and it become small :-). back to what is it, under my microscope its an H3 OR 4 ? HIGHLY MAGNETIC. firts thought when i saw it i sad there could be a scam and it coud be bassikounou not chergash, but looking closely its may be different and i wrote i will wait for analysis, we will see , but we have a new big fall in our hand and the more there are ?the more it's belish, thanks for your comment mike and happy new year. my best aziz ?habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 ----- Message d'origine ---- De : Michael Farmer ? : meteorite list ; habibi abdelaziz Envoy? le : Samedi, 3 Janvier 2009, 1h22mn 19s Objet?: Re: [meteorite-list] the new fall contunue// tichka mountains What do you mean 4000KM 2, this would be one of the largest falls known. I have not heard much about it, so I doubt that it could be that impressive. More likely pieces of a fresh chondrite, or chergach, or Bassikounou. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 1/2/09, habibi abdelaziz wrote: > From: habibi abdelaziz > Subject: [meteorite-list] the? new fall contunue// tichka mountains > To: "meteorite list" > Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 4:31 PM > hi again > just a short note to say, > that there is may be many kilos found and there is a fight > for it,split on 3 places,an area of more than 4000 km > square. > taddart tahanout and tichka , could be more places as far > as things goes we will hear defenitly tomorow of the > aproximate amount of kilo's, > the center of the fall is may be tichka mountain full of > snow now, according to the fireball and the sonic boum its > big. > it become from houre to houre sur that its sur that the > sample i get is from the new fall; > > my best > aziz habibi > > ? face="comic sans ms">habibi aziz > box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > phone. 21235576145 > fax.21235576170 > > >? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From grf2 at verizon.net Fri Jan 2 21:42:54 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:42:54 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Carancas References: <89887.71005.qm@web33204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: . "You just wonder how many other lakes and ponds were created by stony meteorites," says Schultz. I live in Plymouth, MA, the land of 360 ponds, many of which are actually moderate sized lakes.. Thanks for the article Steve. An additional motivation to invest in an underwater detector to confirm or dispute my own personal suspisions about some of their origins. Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Dunklee" To: Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 12:36 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Carancas > >From astronomy magazine. > > > http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.aspx?c=a&id=6726 > > Have a great day > > Steve > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Sat Jan 3 01:58:21 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 22:58:21 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD SALE METEORITE AUCTIONS ON EBAY ENDING BETWEEN 1/4 AND 1/09/09 Message-ID: <02f601c96d70$ab4684e0$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Hello List Members, Happy New Year! I hope everyone is having a Great week! I have several ebay auctions ending 1/4 and over the next few days. Please take a look. WESTON METEORITE RARE .254 gm H4 COA IMCA USA FIRST MET AMERICA'S FIRST METEORITE 0.254 gm FROM BRITISH MUSEUM Item number: 280299170735 http://cgi.ebay.com/WESTON-METEORITE-RARE-254-gm-H4-COA-IMCA-USA-FIRST-MET_W0QQitemZ280299170735QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ST MICHEL METEORITE CHONDRITE 6.30g BLACK CRUST IMCA http://cgi.ebay.com/ST-MICHEL-METEORITE-CHONDRITE-6-30g-BLACK-CRUST-IMCA_W0QQitemZ280298922175QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem BILANGA METEORITE ACHONDRITE DIOGENITE 7.g CRUST IMCA http://cgi.ebay.com/BILANGA-METEORITE-ACHONDRITE-DIOGENITE-7-g-CRUST-IMCA_W0QQitemZ280298927692QQihZ018QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem SMYER METEORITE RARE 28.35 gm H-6 COA IMCA TEXAS NICE http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270322843199&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=017 AGOULT METEORITE .61g IMCA ACHONDRITE EUCRITE RARE RARE http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280297736494&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=018Thanks for looking,Brian CoxIMCA # 6387searchingforfun is my User ID on ebay From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 00:36:41 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 21:36:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Carancas Message-ID: <140993.52482.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Hey stimulate the economy buy the detector and wetsuit and have at it, Jerry you might defeat the odds at that. BUT of those 360+ natural ponds, at least 359 of them are kettle lakes with glacial origins..any "impact pit/crater" older than 8000-13,000 years would have been filled by glacial debris. Seems like a soil sampling auger would be more meaningful than a metal detector.? Frankly, given a 300+ year Anglo history in New England, I'll further wager at least 359 of those ponds have iron in them anyway.? I always hedge against the 6thSD outlier. The only way to know for sure is sample them all. Elton --- On Fri, 1/2/09, Jerry Flaherty wrote: I live in Plymouth, MA, the land of 360 ponds, many of which are actually moderate sized lakes..Thanks for the article Steve. An additional motivation to invest in an underwater detector to confirm or dispute my own personal suspisions about some of their origins. Jerry Flaherty From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sat Jan 3 01:30:41 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 00:30:41 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Alaska Town Abuzz Over Mystery Sky Explosion Message-ID: <00d101c96d6c$cdc42850$8955e146@ATARIENGINE> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,475291,00.html Alaska Town Abuzz Over Mystery Sky Explosion Friday, January 02, 2009 FAIRBANKS, Alaska - Was it a meteor falling from space? Officials think that might be what residents saw shooting through the Alaska sky near Tok on Monday afternoon. A tremendous explosion, like a sonic boom, drew some people outside, where they watched irregular contrails scribe a path in a clear sky. At her home four miles west of Tok, Kathy Olding was loading a large sled with firewood to haul to her house when she was startled by an explosion. Peering out from the tarp-covered wood pile, she saw even her imperturbable Chesapeake Bay retriever, Journey, was on edge, ears cocked. "I could kind of hear it still rumbling, like thunder," she recalled. "I thought, what in the world?" Turning her eyes to the sky, Olding saw the oddest contrail. "It was just like somebody took a pen and made a white cloud that went up and down and up and down and squiggly," she said, describing the pattern. Others called 911. Alaska State Troopers dispatcher Diane Kendall fielded several calls starting about 3:30 p.m. Most reported a loud explosion. One caller, an adult, told Kendall an 11-year-old witnessed the entire spectacle outside. "He said it was like a big fireball that exploded, with smoke everywhere," Kendall relayed. "The kid said, 'I think it was a meteor,' and I went, right. The Martians have landed. But then I got three other calls, boom, boom, boom. I was pretty shocked." People reported hearing and feeling an explosion in the air, but no one called in about debris falling from the sky, said Sgt. Freddie Wells, the state trooper on duty at the time. Responding to the reports, he went out and cas is highly unusual for many, many Tokites to have heard this explosion," Olding wrote in an e-mail. "Does ANYONE know what it was? We are all dying to know." News that the mysterious incident was likely a meteor was somewhat reassuring, laying to rest Martian theories. "We're looking for UFOs around here," Sgt. Wells joked. Chappelow said nearly all meteors that leave visible trails in the atmosphere are no bigger than a BB, and most are as tiny as a grain of sand. The brightness comes from the speed with which meteors travel into the Earth's atmosphere. From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 02:03:39 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 23:03:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pallasite vs. Mesosiderite Message-ID: <262076.5974.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> This is a lost draft regarding the question about pallesites vs mesosiderites in the for what it is worth category. These two types of meteorites were trasditionally lumped together for a very long long time as "stony-irons". We know now they have little in common chemically nor in point of origin. Two examples that can appear similar are Huckitta; a pallasite and Vaca Muerta; a mesosiderite. Given that they were widely available stony irons that happened to superficially resemble each other owing to extensive weathering. This perpetuated the misconception that they were related, IMO. Pallasites contain the mineral assemblage magnesium iron silicate with the formula (Mg,Fe)2SiO4.aka olivine wich is a mixture of the minerals forresterite and fayalite. In fact a pallasite vs mesosiderite distinction is the silicate in pallasites are olivine (Mg,Fe)2SiO4, where the mesosiderite's pyroxene silicates are mostly XY(Si,Al)2O6 I do not know for sure I am fairly certain that notuing more than a trace of olivine--neither massive or "pallasite-like" olivine crystals have been found in mesosiderites. All mesosiderites have been linked to a single parent body totally disrupted both with extensively intermixed strata. Mesosiderites are an assemblage of iron, eucrite, diogenite, impact melt breccia, howardite soup--you name it. By disrupted I mean really comingled with lots of surface and mantle material shot through the center and into the other side, flash melting, biblical porportions of chaos crumbled up silicates with iron chunks for flavor mixing. Pallasites represent a less mixed, none-the-less "disrupted" parent body-- specifically, material from the mantle core boundary*. The olivine within the metal portions was emplaced in the iron via a yet to be confirmed process. Possible via a cumulate condensation or a impact imparted sloshing of a magma chamber in contact with the molten core. Because there are Widmanstatten patterns in pallasites we know that whatever the process, it wasn't the one that excavated the meteorites from the core of the parent body because rapid cooling would not allow those patterns to form. Some recent finds show entire sections void of olivine crystals all together ( hence "siderite" portions). I haven't looked it up recently but unlike a single parent in mesosiderites there are 7-13 separate parent bodies sampled in the worlds sampling of pallasites. AS mentioned before, very weathered pallesites can supreficially resemble mesosiderites such as is the case with Huckitta. Almost everyone owns some Huckitta which dosen't look at all like a typical pallasite. Much of the Huckitta in private collections is not the pristeen olivine metal mix we know so well but oxiadized metal and hydrated silicates. It looks like a meso in many appearance respects. Couple this with the availability of Vaca Muerta and in absence of anything else for comparrison and it is easy to see why anyone would assume they were very related. Elton * there is a theory about iron pools/pockets not at the core of asteroids but those are hard to explain rotationaly etc. From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 03:30:28 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 00:30:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Siberian Impact Crater to be cored for ancient climate data Message-ID: <373877.18794.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Impact geology and subsequent paleoclimate in one package--El'gygytgyn Lake, in Siberia is 8 miles in diameter and lies within a 3.6 million year old(myo) impact crater. A multinational team hopes to recover 3,000,000 years worth of ice and sediment cores from this lake plus impact breccia from the impact itself. Eman The Science Daily Link: The Article: Under Frozen Lake In Siberia, Geoscientists Drill For Secrets Of Earth's Ancient Climate ScienceDaily (Dec. 22, 2008) ? In the next few days, a convoy of bulldozers and trucks will set out from a remote airport in Siberia, heading for a frozen lake 62 miles north of the Arctic Circle, but the trip isn?t a holiday visit to the North Pole. Instead, the trucks will deliver core-drilling equipment for a study of sediment and meteorite-impact rocks that should provide the longest time-continuous climate record ever collected in the Arctic. Once in place next month, the drilling will allow an international team of geoscientists led by Julie Brigham-Grette of the University of Massachusetts Amherst and Martin Melles of the University of Cologne, Germany, to burrow back in time, retrieving core samples more than 3 million years old and answering questions about Earth?s ancient past. Almost impossibly remote, Lake El?gygytgyn (pronounced el?geegitgin), approximately 8 miles in diameter, was formed 3.6 million years ago when a monster meteor, more than a half-mile across, slammed into the Earth between the Arctic Ocean and the Bering Sea. Because this part of the Arctic was never covered by ice sheets or glaciers, it has received a steady drift of sediment ? as much as a quarter mile (1,312 feet or 400 meters) deep ? since impact. Thus, it offers a continuous depositional record unlike any other in the world, say Brigham-Grette and colleagues, beneath the crater lake that?s just over 560 feet deep, equal to the height of the Washington Monument. This week?s convoy will take 25 days to crawl through the frozen dark, building a 224-mile ice road as they go, over which the heavy drilling equipment can be moved from the remote airstrip at Pevek, in the north of Russia?s Chukotka Autonomous Region. ?Lake El?gygytgyn is logistically among the most difficult places on Earth to carry out a scientific drilling program,? Brigham-Grette acknowledges. But by all accounts, the rewards should be worth all the effort. In preparation for this day, scientists from institutes in Germany, Russia and Austria as well as UMass Amherst have been flying in by helicopter for focused tests over the past 10 years, drilling pilot cores and taking other samples and measurements. The site has passed every test. For example, the lake bed has been undisturbed by earthquakes, other underground shifting or drying for thousands of years. Pilot cores of 16.7 meters long (54 feet) have already provided a snapshot of climate from 300,000 years ago. El?gygytgyn thus offers a truly unprecedented and ideal opportunity, Brigham-Grette notes, for piecing together a clearer picture of the hemisphere?s prehistoric climate and the dynamic processes of global climate change since the meteor?s impact. Notably, the researchers hope they can learn more about the unexplained shift from a warm forest ecology to permafrost, some 2 million to 3 million years ago. Comparing cores from under Lake El?gygytgyn to those from lower latitudes will help the climate scientists with a high-resolution tool to study climatic change across northeast Asia ?at millennial timescales,? Brigham-Grette says. In addition to climate data, cores may offer the researchers an opportunity to study the 3.6-million-year-old ?impact breccia,? that is, how Earth?s bedrock responded to the meteor?s impact. Some sampling began in November at the science camp drilling site on the lakeshore, where researchers will study the climate history of the permafrost (frozen ground) that surrounds the lake. The other two drill sites will be in the deepest part of the lake. Waiting until Arctic winter to transport and install the equipment, the team can use the frozen lake surface to support drills specially designed to withstand the extreme weather conditions. The scientists plan to start drilling overlapping cores at these frigid locations in February using the windswept lake ice as a drilling platform. Sampling will continue until May 2009, as part of the International Continental Scientific Drilling Program (ICDP). To ensure the safety of both scientists and drill-team members on the isolated lake in potentially life-threatening conditions, Brigham-Grette and colleagues have scrutinized how the ice shifts, cracks, and responds to heavy wind and circulation forces before settling on rig placement. Workers and scientists will live in a protected personnel carrier that will also transport cores from the rig on the lake ice to the science camp on the shore. Sediment cores will be processed for shipment and stored at the lake in a temperature-controlled container until they can be flown to St. Petersburg and later trucked to the University of Cologne, Germany, for study by the international team. An ?archive half? of each core will also be stored at the University of Minnesota. The international collaboration is funded by the U.S. National Science Foundation, the German Federal Ministry for Education and Research, the Alfred Wegener Institute for Polar and Marine Research, Bremerhaven, and GeoForschungsZentrum, Potsdam. In addition to UMass Amherst, investigators from the Russian Academy of Sciences? Far East Geological Institute, Vladivostok, the Northeast Interdisciplinary Scientific Research Institute, Magadan, and Roshydromet?s Arctic and Antarctic Research Institute, St. Petersburg, are taking part. From mark at meteorites.cc Sat Jan 3 06:32:31 2009 From: mark at meteorites.cc (Mark Crawford) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 11:32:31 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on the Younger Dryas 'impact event' Message-ID: <495F4CCF.4040801@meteorites.cc> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7808171.stm -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sat Jan 3 08:17:37 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 05:17:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 3, 2009 Message-ID: <29809877.192031230988657078.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_3_2009.html From grf2 at verizon.net Sat Jan 3 08:56:49 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 08:56:49 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Carancas References: <140993.52482.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <611826B1081C4027AF69247CAF8385FC@ASUS> I know in my heart that you are absolutely right Elton. But there are so few environments out here that can provide accessible search areas that it's my last "hope" of following in the footsteps of all of the List's exciting adventures. I've even done some magnet snorkle dives driven by the tales recounted here. I probably won't throw money into an expensive detector unless and until there is more evidence to support such ideas.. As far as kettle ponds are concerned, underlying terrain provides the pattern of these. And yes, glacial deposits would overlay any evidence of impact. However, my assumption, or hypothesis, considers the best case senerio or senerios. Either post glacial origin or other, as yet to be undetermined, factors compromising glacial fill [tsunami, earthquake, and about the same luck as would be needed to win a lottery in picking the right pond, etc]. Thanks for the response. Always reassuring to be recognized, especially by someone as thoughtfully challanging as you. P.S. google "cattle pond" in plymouth, ma, 02360. Note its shape. Instead of being shallow, it's quite deep. And oh yea, it's in my "backyard". ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: ; "Jerry Flaherty" Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Carancas Hey stimulate the economy buy the detector and wetsuit and have at it, Jerry you might defeat the odds at that. BUT of those 360+ natural ponds, at least 359 of them are kettle lakes with glacial origins..any "impact pit/crater" older than 8000-13,000 years would have been filled by glacial debris. Seems like a soil sampling auger would be more meaningful than a metal detector. Frankly, given a 300+ year Anglo history in New England, I'll further wager at least 359 of those ponds have iron in them anyway. I always hedge against the 6thSD outlier. The only way to know for sure is sample them all. Elton --- On Fri, 1/2/09, Jerry Flaherty wrote: I live in Plymouth, MA, the land of 360 ponds, many of which are actually moderate sized lakes..Thanks for the article Steve. An additional motivation to invest in an underwater detector to confirm or dispute my own personal suspisions about some of their origins. Jerry Flaherty From grf2 at verizon.net Sat Jan 3 09:49:46 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:49:46 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on the Younger Dryas 'impact event' References: <495F4CCF.4040801@meteorites.cc> Message-ID: <0459B2CAD8EA496AA83E8FE4B0B867F9@ASUS> Well balanced with an edge to the sympathetic. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Crawford" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 6:32 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] More on the Younger Dryas 'impact event' > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7808171.stm > > -- > Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net Sat Jan 3 09:56:44 2009 From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net (Larry & Twink Monrad) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 07:56:44 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteor shower References: <140993.52482.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <611826B1081C4027AF69247CAF8385FC@ASUS> Message-ID: I was asked to post this to the list since the Bakers were unable to do so. Twink Monrad 1/3/2009 Does anyone on the list know if there is a current meteor shower? Jake and I were out walking the dogs at 5:45 this morning and saw 7 or 8 meteors. There has been some activity every morning or evening for the last week or more. Our location is Show Low, Arizona, USA. Lat/Lon at our airport is 34-15-55N / 110-00-20W The sightings have been almost over head, out of the NNE to NNW. The display is less than a second with a very flat arc. 2009 is going to be a great year having seen so many meteors in the first three days. See you at Tucson. Thanks. Barb & Jake From ks1u at att.net Sat Jan 3 10:03:49 2009 From: ks1u at att.net (George Blahun Jr) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:03:49 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteor shower In-Reply-To: References: <140993.52482.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <611826B1081C4027AF69247CAF8385FC@ASUS> Message-ID: <3121728E-A2D1-4201-AD16-83F4225BAECA@att.net> Twink: It was the Quadrantid shower which peaked in the early morning today (5 am PST). George From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Sat Jan 3 10:42:07 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:42:07 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Quadrantids Message-ID: <6CC17772CDBF4C44A4D760D454E92A0A@ET> Twink: I was out at 6:00 a.m. putting wood in the greenhouse woodstove. During the 5 minute walk, I saw 7 meteors. The best viewing was supposed to be Out West, but it looked pretty good here in northern Indiana. Phil Whitmer From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sat Jan 3 10:45:09 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 08:45:09 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] meteor shower In-Reply-To: References: <140993.52482.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <611826B1081C4027AF69247CAF8385FC@ASUS> Message-ID: <49722.71.226.60.25.1230997509.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi Twink: Yes, got beat out on the response that it was the Quadrantids (radiates out from a now-defunct constellation, Quadrans Muralis; mural or wall quandrant). It also appears to be related to a 2-km "asteroid," 2003 EH1. However, going back even further, there is a lost comet, C/1490 Y1 (seen in 1490) that may now look less comet-like and more asteroid-like, i.e. EH1 is really a defunct comet. Larry On Sat, January 3, 2009 7:56 am, Larry & Twink Monrad wrote: > I was asked to post this to the list since the Bakers were unable to do > so. Twink Monrad > > > 1/3/2009 > > > Does anyone on the list know if there is a current meteor shower? > > > Jake and I were out walking the dogs at 5:45 this morning and saw 7 or 8 > meteors. > > There has been some activity every morning or evening for the last week > or more. Our location is Show Low, Arizona, USA. Lat/Lon at our > airport is > > > 34-15-55N / 110-00-20W > > > > > The sightings have been almost over head, out of the NNE to NNW. The > display is less than a second with a very flat arc. > > 2009 is going to be a great year having seen so many meteors in the first > three days. > > See you at Tucson. > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > Barb & Jake > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 12:25:11 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 09:25:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pallasite vs. Mesosiderite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <337924.64992.qm@web58407.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Elton, Well said. That is a very coherent explanation of the differences between the two. With your permission only, I'd like to repost this on the Cloudy Nights meteorite list. If this is OK with you, email me offlist. :) Best regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... Message: 2 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 23:03:39 -0800 (PST) From: Mr EMan Subject: [meteorite-list] Pallasite vs. Mesosiderite To: metlist Message-ID: <262076.5974.qm at web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This is a lost draft regarding the question about pallesites vs mesosiderites in the for what it is worth category. These two types of meteorites were trasditionally lumped together for a very long long time as "stony-irons". We know now they have little in common chemically nor in point of origin. Two examples that can appear similar are Huckitta; a pallasite and Vaca Muerta; a mesosiderite. Given that they were widely available stony irons that happened to superficially resemble each other owing to extensive weathering. This perpetuated the misconception that they were related, IMO. Pallasites contain the mineral assemblage magnesium iron silicate with the formula (Mg,Fe)2SiO4.aka olivine wich is a mixture of the minerals forresterite and fayalite. In fact a pallasite vs mesosiderite distinction is the silicate in pallasites are olivine (Mg,Fe)2SiO4, where the mesosiderite's pyroxene silicates are mostly XY(Si,Al)2O6 I do not know for sure I am fairly certain that notuing more than a trace of olivine--neither massive or "pallasite-like" olivine crystals have been found in mesosiderites. All mesosiderites have been linked to a single parent body totally disrupted both with extensively intermixed strata. Mesosiderites are an assemblage of iron, eucrite, diogenite, impact melt breccia, howardite soup--you name it. By disrupted I mean really comingled with lots of surface and mantle material shot through the center and into the other side, flash melting, biblical porportions of chaos crumbled up silicates with iron chunks for flavor mixing. Pallasites represent a less mixed, none-the-less "disrupted" parent body-- specifically, material from the mantle core boundary*. The olivine within the metal portions was emplaced in the iron via a yet to be confirmed process. Possible via a cumulate condensation or a impact imparted sloshing of a magma chamber in contact with the molten core. Because there are Widmanstatten patterns in pallasites we know that whatever the process, it wasn't the one that excavated the meteorites from the core of the parent body because rapid cooling would not allow those patterns to form. Some recent finds show entire sections void of olivine crystals all together ( hence "siderite" portions). I haven't looked it up recently but unlike a single parent in mesosiderites there are 7-13 separate parent bodies sampled in the worlds sampling of pallasites. AS mentioned before, very weathered pallesites can supreficially resemble mesosiderites such as is the case with Huckitta. Almost everyone owns some Huckitta which dosen't look at all like a typical pallasite. Much of the Huckitta in private collections is not the pristeen olivine metal mix we know so well but oxiadized metal and hydrated silicates. It looks like a meso in many appearance respects. Couple this with the availability of Vaca Muerta and in absence of anything else for comparrison and it is easy to see why anyone would assume they were very related. Elton * there is a theory about iron pools/pockets not at the core of asteroids but those are hard to explain rotationaly etc. From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr Sat Jan 3 12:38:20 2009 From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?Pel=E9=20Pierre-Marie?=) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 18:38:20 +0100 (CET) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD> Encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com website for sale >>> Message-ID: <493076.18184.qm@web23008.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hello List Members, My new work doesn't allow me to keep working on the Encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com website as I would like to. I can't make the updates and make new features available. So I'm selling my domain name encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com and of course the account and the complete website. That's the only way for the website to be continued and updated. What you get ? ---------------------- - You get the domain name encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com - You get a website with over 1,100 members - You get a Starter account at uplinkearth.com with 3GB disk space, 2 domains possible, and much more (follow this link for more info : http://uplinkearth.com/hosting_packages.html) - You get a complete DVD with a backup of the website Who can buy it ? ---------------------- Anybody of course but I would really like it is an IMCA member or a well-known meteorite collector to keep a high level of quality. Also, you have to have a good programming skill if you wish to maintain the website working or have a friend as programmer (it's programmed with ASP and an MS Access database) ; I won't have time to help the new owner. How to buy it ? ---------------------- I'll start a sealed auction. Principle is nobody sees the bid of others and, on January 31st, 2009, midnight (Paris time), I'll stop the bids and warn the winner. Of course, as all bids are hidden, you just make one bid ! The starting price is US$500. I think it's a fair starting price as I worked hundreds of hours on the website and you get a complete website with possibilities of advertising and cross-selling. I'm sure the price gets high so make a good offer to win it. BIDDING TIME STARTS NOW ! I'll help the winner to make the transfers with my provider uplinkearth.com How to pay ? ---------------------- Payment will only be done with PAYPAL in US$ just after the end of bidding. I thank you for reading, Pierre-Marie PELE From p.marmet at sunrise.ch Sat Jan 3 13:00:29 2009 From: p.marmet at sunrise.ch (Peter Marmet) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 19:00:29 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - pict of small thin lunar slices added! Message-ID: <871799a20901031000h31b39acby135258230f2d04a4@mail.gmail.com> Hello All, I just added a pict of a few smaller slices of the stunning LUNAR NWA 4734. The discount price of $ 950.00 per gram is guaranteed until January 5, 2009. After January 5, the price will be $ 1200.00 per gram. Five smaller slices are available: 25 mg, 75 mg, 82 mg, 110 mg, 128 mg http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id44.html Thank you, Peter Peter Marmet Bern, Switzerland IMCA #2747 p.marmet at mysunrise.ch http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ From bobe5531 at comcast.net Thu Jan 1 11:16:03 2009 From: bobe5531 at comcast.net (Bob Evans) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 10:16:03 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy New Year Message-ID: <004d01c96c2c$3e820900$0201a8c0@yourae066c3a9b> Top all those concerned, If you arent concerned please delete. Iam in no way trying to start any arguments on this list. But these people are way out of line. Phil Whitmer wrote on 12/30/08 : "A respected and important member of the meteorite community checked out the provenance of the last offerings on eBay by Bob Evans and they turned out to be shady to say the least. It looks like Bob Evans was selling stones with fake Monnig provenance according to his own source. " You people had better get your facts straight. I haven't sold anything that came from Monnig in years. I think some of you people don't even know what my ebay account is. Here is my account : http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmaccers531 Al Mitterling, Iam seriously considering a lawsuit against you for slander. From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Thu Jan 1 12:44:09 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 09:44:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Freebie Taken! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7839.24455.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi folks! Both freebies are now taken - in a record time of about 2 minutes! Best regards to everyone and Happy New Year! MikeG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gilmer" To: Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 9:33 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] New Year Freebie - Move Quick! > Hi Listees! > > To celebrate the coming of 2009, I am offering a mystery freebie > meteorite to the first two CONUS residents to who respond to this > post. > > I am giving away a free stony meteorite and a free iron meteorite. > > Both are small, but are quite nice for their small size. > > The first responder will get their choice of stone or iron. > > The second responder will get the other specimen not taken by responder > #1. > > This offer is open to CONUS residents only. > > If I get a flood of responses, I will reply to the "winners" of the > freebies, and will post a "stop" notice to the list to let everyone > else know that the freebies are taken. > > Happy New Year and clear skies! :) > > MikeG > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... --- On Thu, 1/1/09, meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com wrote: > From: meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 1 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, January 1, 2009, 11:00 AM > Send Meteorite-list mailing list submissions to > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > meteorite-list-owner at meteoritecentral.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific > than "Re: Contents of Meteorite-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Fun questions, or public FAQs (al mitterling) > 2. Re: Fun questions, or public FAQs (al mitterling) > 3. Fun questions, or public FAQs (JoshuaTreeMuseum) > 4. Re: Fun questions, or public FAQs (Don Merchant) > 5. Dawn Journal - December 30, 2008 (Ron Baalke) > 6. Astronomy Picture of the Day 2008 December 31 (Roman) > 7. Re: Update on New England Fireball of 12-29-08 (Jerry > Flaherty) > 8. Re: Astronomy Picture of the Day 2008 December 31 > (Jerry Flaherty) > 9. Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 1, 2009 > (Michael Johnson) > 10. Re: Tucson Show Auction now "up" (Michael L > Blood) > 11. AD - ebay auctions ending soon (Meteoriteshow) > 12. Re: Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 1, > 2009 > (Jerry Flaherty) > 13. happy new everyone (steve arnold) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:25:46 -0500 > From: "al mitterling" > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fun questions, or public FAQs > To: "Mark Crawford" > , "Meteorite List" > > Message-ID: > <8C7C4AE6B10F49EE8DEBCE1312CDF603 at StarmanPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Hi Mark and all, > > One thing I didn't realize for a long time was peoples > preception of part > slices and small fragments that many of us dealers sort of > take for granted. > One lady commented to me one time that she was amazed that > they could find > such a small crumb of Mars I had in my micro mounts (it was > Zagami). It then > dawned on me that some people see these small micros and > think that was the > whole piece found. I explained that it was from a much > larger specimen that > was cut and broke down to sell to micro collectors and that > it would be > really tough to test such a small piece as it would be > mostly consumed and > nothing left for sale. > > I have had other people comment on slices saying they sure > are flat looking, > not knowing they are looking at a slice being sold from a > whole stone. Sure > there are other misconceptions when they are looking but > now know to let > them know the small pieces and slices are cut from much > larger specimens. > Best!! > > --AL Mitterling > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Crawford" > To: "Meteorite List" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:34 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Fun questions, or public FAQs > > > >I was reflecting yesterday on the fun I get showing my > collection to > >guests, and talking about meteorites to non-hobbyists. > It got me thinking > >that there are some standard questions which come up > time and again. > > > > * "Where do you get them from?" [One of the > few opportunities to use the > > line 'I buy from dealers by the gram' in > polite conversation :) ] > > > > * "How do you know they haven't just gone to > the local DIY store and > > bought a bag of gravel?" [or various versions of > this] > > > > * "How do you know it really comes from Mars/the > Moon/the asteroids?" > > > > ...and I suppose if the conversation comes round to > it: > > > > * "HOW much???" :) > > > > > > I wondered if other list members had any fun regular > (or occasional) ones > > to share? > > > > Mark > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:27:01 -0500 > From: "al mitterling" > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fun questions, or public FAQs > To: "Mark Crawford" > , "Meteorite List" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Mark and all, > > One thing I didn't realize for a long time was peoples > perception of part > slices and small fragments that many of us dealers sort of > take for granted. > One lady commented to me one time that she was amazed that > they could find > such a small crumb of Mars I had in my micro mounts (it was > Zagami). It then > dawned on me that some people see these small micros and > think that was the > whole piece found. I explained that it was from a much > larger specimen that > was cut and broke down to sell to micro collectors and that > it would be > really tough to test such a small piece as it would be > mostly consumed and > nothing left for sale. > > I have had other people comment on slices saying they sure > are flat looking, > not knowing they are looking at a slice being sold from a > whole stone. Sure > there are other misconceptions when they are looking but > now know to let > them know the small pieces and slices are cut from much > larger specimens. > Best!! > > --AL Mitterling > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Crawford" > To: "Meteorite List" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:34 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Fun questions, or public FAQs > > > >I was reflecting yesterday on the fun I get showing my > collection to > >guests, and talking about meteorites to non-hobbyists. > It got me thinking > >that there are some standard questions which come up > time and again. > > > > * "Where do you get them from?" [One of the > few opportunities to use the > > line 'I buy from dealers by the gram' in > polite conversation :) ] > > > > * "How do you know they haven't just gone to > the local DIY store and > > bought a bag of gravel?" [or various versions of > this] > > > > * "How do you know it really comes from Mars/the > Moon/the asteroids?" > > > > ...and I suppose if the conversation comes round to > it: > > > > * "HOW much???" :) > > > > > > I wondered if other list members had any fun regular > (or occasional) ones > > to share? > > > > Mark > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:43:12 -0500 > From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Fun questions, or public FAQs > To: > Message-ID: <8C8961D73C0B45B39200E8318519B1DF at ET> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hello and Happy New Year to Al, Mark, and the List: > > A related question I get a lot is when people see meteorite > spheres, they > always want to know if they fell that way and how can > meteorites be > perfectly round. People also are confused about meteors > from comets and > meteors from the asteroid belt. They always want to know > how many stones > make it to Earth from the meteor showers. People also > comment a lot about > how hot meteorites must be when they make it to Earth. > They're shocked when > I tell them they are more likely to be cold. > > Phil Whitmer > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 13:08:14 -0500 > From: "Don Merchant" > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fun questions, or public FAQs > To: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" > , > > Cc: Don Merchant > Message-ID: > <000c01c96b72$c00051e0$6401a8c0 at donaldmerchant> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Hi List. One of the most difficult questions (ends up a 2 > part question) is > "how do you know that these are REAL > METEORITES".....I explain that I only > deal with the top 10 or so Renown Dealers/Collectors in > the world. This > leads to the 2nd part question..."How do you know > these Dealers/Collectors > are selling that particular type Meteorite" > Hmmmmm.......this has not been > an easy question to answer. Though most will supply you > with an > identification card most do not have an official COA > (Certificate of > Authenticity) I know that Rob Elliot always supplied a nice > looking COA > which helped back-up the meteorite sale as authentic. I > usually would reply > to those asking me if the Dealers I buy from are really > selling legit > meteorites by saying..."These Dealers (Most of them) > send a piece of the > meteorite they find to a Laboratory to be analyzed and > confirmed before > selling them" Still a very hard question to answer. > Anyone else run into > this question? How do you answer it to your admirers of > your collection? > Sincerely > Don Merchant > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:43 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Fun questions, or public FAQs > > > > Hello and Happy New Year to Al, Mark, and the List: > > > > A related question I get a lot is when people see > meteorite spheres, they > > always want to know if they fell that way and how can > meteorites be > > perfectly round. People also are confused about > meteors from comets and > > meteors from the asteroid belt. They always want to > know how many stones > > make it to Earth from the meteor showers. People also > comment a lot about > > how hot meteorites must be when they make it to Earth. > They're shocked > > when I tell them they are more likely to be cold. > > > > Phil Whitmer > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 12:44:52 -0800 (PST) > From: Ron Baalke > Subject: [meteorite-list] Dawn Journal - December 30, 2008 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com (Meteorite Mailing > List) > Message-ID: > <200812312044.MAA05222 at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal_12_30_08.asp > > Dawn Journal > Dr. Marc Rayman > December 30, 2008 > > Dear Dawncember30ths, > > Having fulfilled all of its assignments for 2008, the Dawn > spacecraft has been unusually quiescent recently. While its > operators on faraway Earth have no shortage of work, the > probe > patiently coasts in its orbit around the Sun, awaiting a > brief > encounter with Mars on February 17, which will steer it > into a new > orbit. > > On October 31, Dawn completed nearly all the ion thrusting > that had > been planned for 2008. On November 20, mission controllers > directed > the spacecraft to execute a short maneuver to fine-tune its > trajectory. Its only activity since then has been the > routine > maintenance of the gimbal system used to point ion thruster > #1. On > December 3, it moved the mechanism through a range of > angles to > help redistribute lubricant, following the same commands > that were > used 2 months earlier. > > As viewed from Earth, Dawn passed through solar conjunction > this month, appearing to be very > close to the Sun. To visualize the geometry, suppose the > Sun were > at the center of a clock, with Earth at the end of the hour > hand > and the spacecraft at the tip of the minute hand. With the > relative distances at the time of conjunction, the minute > hand would > be almost 1.6 times the length of the hour hand - an > elegant design > indeed. (This analogy applies only for the separation as > viewed from > Earth under limited circumstances. As explained in an > earlier log, > while Dawn is indeed farther from the Sun > than Earth is, the planet travels more quickly around its > orbit > than the spacecraft does. This would be more akin to a > clock on > which the hour hand is longer than the minute hand; such > timepieces are back-ordered at Dawn souvenir shops.) > > When Earth, the Sun, and the spacecraft are on a straight > line, > such as at 6:00, the Sun and spacecraft would appear to > overlap > from the perspective of an observer on Earth, near the > bottom of > the clock. As we noted last month, Dawn would not pass > directly > behind the Sun, because it does not orbit in the same plane > as > Earth. Therefore, the precisely linear arrangement of hands > at > exactly 6:00:00 never occurs. Pushing the clock analogy > beyond its > limits of usefulness, the minute hand would be bent toward > the > clock face, so it does not circle in quite the same plane > as the > hour hand. We shall ignore that enhancement for now but > return to > this point below. In the meantime, let's consider the > arrangements > that have occurred. > > On December 12, when the angle between the Sun and the > spacecraft > was at its minimum, it would be analogous to the alignment > of the > hands about 10 seconds from the hour, or the arrangement at > 6:00:10. (Remember, this clock only has hour and minute > hands; > your correspondent types too slowly to be able to construct > a > useful analogy with a clock that includes a second hand.) > When > most modern interplanetary craft are within about 2 degrees > of the > Sun, normal communications may be less reliable. This > limitation, > which lasted about 2 weeks for Dawn, would correspond to > half a > minute on either side of 6:00, or between about 5:59:30 and > 6:00:30. > > Despite the powerful interference caused by radio signals > passing > through the distorting environment of the Sun on their way > from > the spacecraft to Earth, enough of the transmissions made > it > through for engineers to confirm that the spacecraft > remained > healthy throughout the conjunction period. Dawn was > programmed to > modify its radio transmissions to account for the angle > between it > and the Sun. Operators chose to accept a reduced return of > information from the ship's systems in exchange for > boosting the > quality of the signals used for navigation because of the > upcoming > flight by Mars. Some usable navigation data were obtained > every > day, but, as expected, most of the data, particularly > during the 4 > days when the spacecraft was nearest the Sun, were too > degraded to > be useful in refining the parameters of Dawn's orbit. > > Now, as Earth and the spacecraft have progressed in their > separate > travels around the Sun (making an angle today equivalent to > about > 6:01:45 on our Dawn clock), the radio waves traverse a less > tortuous path, so the signal quality has improved. After > collecting and analyzing more navigational data, engineers > will > determine what refinement is needed to the trajectory to > guarantee > Dawn encounters Mars in just the right way to provide the > needed > gravitational deflection. Following the same procedure > applied to > the design of Dawn's first trajectory correction > maneuver (TCM), > the team will begin designing the > second TCM early next month for the spacecraft to perform > on > January 15. In fact, the creative process has already > begun; the > maneuver has been given the imaginative appellation TCM2. > Using > those 4 characters (and perhaps a few others as well), the > next > log will report on the maneuver and provide some details on > the > nature of Dawn's gravitational interaction with Mars > and how it > affects the trajectory. > > The only reason for Dawn to travel to the vicinity of Mars > is for > the help to reach its targets in the asteroid belt. > Nevertheless, > as the probe races by, the team will take advantage of the > opportunity to accomplish some bonus goals. Some of the > plans will > be covered in an upcoming log. > > In the meantime, as the thrill of conjunction begins to > fade, our > vast staff has yet to sort through all the data on how many > terrestrial readers used this convenient alignment to guide > their > mental eyes toward the > spacecraft. The Dawn project sincerely hopes all observers > reaped > the maximum possible inspiration and joy from solar > conjunction, > as the mission will not offer another like it. Our > destinations, > Vesta and Ceres, do not orbit the Sun in the same plane > that Earth > does, and Dawn must match its orbit to that of its targets. > (The > major planets orbit closer to the plane of Earth's > orbit, and no > spacecraft has ventured as far out of that plane to orbit > another > body as Dawn will.) While the probe is already in a > slightly > different plane from Earth's orbit now, the gravity of > Mars and > subsequent ion thrusting will propel it to still a greater > angle. > As a result, when Dawn and Earth find themselves on > opposite sides > of the Sun in the future, the alignment will not be as > close as it > was this month. Dawn's next apparent encounter with the > Sun will > be in November 2010, but it will appear to pass far enough > north > of the Sun that communications should not be significantly > compromised. Following that, there will be 3 more times > before the > primary mission ends in 2015 that Earth and the spacecraft > will be > on opposite sides of the Sun, but in each case Dawn's > path through > Earth's skies will take it farther north or south of > the brilliant > landmark than in the 2008 conjunction. Nevertheless, each > will be > close enough that it may provide a visual reference once > again to > stir meditation upon the magnificence of a journey far away > in the > depths of space. > > Dawn is 11 million kilometers (7 million miles) from Mars. > It is > 372 million kilometers (231 million miles) from Earth, or > 930 > times as far as the moon and 2.53 times as far as the Sun. > Radio > signals, traveling at the universal limit of the speed of > light, > take 41 minutes to make the round trip. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 16:10:15 -0500 > From: "Roman" > Subject: [meteorite-list] Astronomy Picture of the Day 2008 > December > 31 > To: "metlist" > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Astronomy Picture of the Day 2008 December 31 > > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap081231.html > > Click on the link and turn your sound up with full screen. > Absolutely beautiful! > > HAPPY NEW YEAR. > > Roman Jirasek > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:03:34 -0500 > From: "Jerry Flaherty" > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Update on New England > Fireball of > 12-29-08 > To: > , > Message-ID: <472C322B41F941488AEDB6DAE7DCA33A at ASUS> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=original > > Thanks Much Robert. Keep us in the loop. That's only > 100+ miles from > me!!!!!!!!!! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Woolard" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:09 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Update on New England Fireball of > 12-29-08 > > > > List, > > > > Thanks to several of you who have emailed me with > their appreciation for > > my previous postings on the two recent > fireballs/possible falls. I > > appreciate you guys taking the time to do that. > > > > Here is PART of an update on the New England > fireball. The map that > > accompanies the report can be seen by going to: > > > > www.spaceweather.com > > > > > > NEW ENGLAND FIREBALL: On Dec. 29th, around 9:30 pm > EST, a blue-green > > fireball 100+ times brighter than Venus soared over > New England and > > exploded colorfully in mid-air. Onlookers saw the > flash from at least nine > > US states: eye-witness reports. > > > > Dan Linek of North Bay Shore, New York, was one of the > eye witnesses. > > Combining his own observations with those of others, > he created a > > hand-drawn map of sightings and the probable location > of the fireball when > > it exploded: > > > > ********** ( see map at www.spaceweather.com ) > ************* > > > > > > If any fragments reached the ground, they might have > landed in the western > > half of Linek's trapezoid. (The meteor was > traveling east to west.) > > > > Believe it or not, meteors like this are not > rare--they are just rarely > > seen. The New England fireball stands out because it > hit a densely > > populated area only a few hours after sunset. It was > bound to be seen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 22:10:20 -0500 > From: "Jerry Flaherty" > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astronomy Picture of the Day > 2008 > December 31 > To: "Roman" > , "metlist" > > Message-ID: <662CC7C8DF204369A875CE1D3E2D2869 at ASUS> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=response > > Roman, How delightful!! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Roman" > To: "metlist" > > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:10 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Astronomy Picture of the Day 2008 > December 31 > > > > Astronomy Picture of the Day 2008 December 31 > > > > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap081231.html > > > > Click on the link and turn your sound up with full > screen. > > Absolutely beautiful! > > > > HAPPY NEW YEAR. > > > > Roman Jirasek > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 21:11:40 -0800 (PST) > From: Michael Johnson > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the > Day - > January 1, 2009 > To: Meteorite List > > Message-ID: > <6769830.56041230786700899.JavaMail.root at mbs5.homesteadmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_1_2009.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 23:14:36 -0800 > From: Michael L Blood > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson Show Auction now > "up" > To: Meteorite List > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > HAPPY NEW YEAR! > The Tucson Meteorite Auction on-line catalog is now > complete? It has > 78 lots offered. For the first time, all of the original > lots are NO MINIMUM > BID. That means wide open bidding for everyone - ANY bid > could win. > See on-line auction catalog at: > -- > http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson09.html > -- > People need to email in their absentee bids NOW. If > you do not get a > Confirmation within 24hrs, something went wrong - please > email me again. > Absentee bids will give you an excellent > opportunity to buy as > though you were at the auction, even from Europe. You offer > your highest bid > And are automatically "bid up" only with the live > bidding, so, you could get > it well below your maximum. > There are still plenty of spaces for more entries, > especially for > $3K and up items, which are lacking so far, even though we > have some really > choice mid-range items. > Remember we will be in the old location where the 4 > auctions before > The last location (in 2008) were held. > Email in your absentee bids and any remaining > entries. > Best wishes to all, Michael > PS: I'm starting to get TUCSON FEVER! > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 12:04:18 +0100 > From: "Meteoriteshow" > > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending soon > To: "Meteorite List" > > Message-ID: <12C8684CE974407DB15B2D167942FC73 at john> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Dear All, > > First of all i wish you all a very Happy and Propserous New > Year, may your > dreams come true and many new "stardusts" join > your collections!!! > > Saturday is the day our auctions end and this week again > you can find some > interesting meteorites at: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmeteoriteshow > > Eight different meteorites are offered this week: > > 1- Al Haggounia 001 PRIM. AUB. - 64.5g Slice: Quite a large > slice, still at > a low price so far... > http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-Al-Haggounia-001-PRIM-AUB-64-5g-Slice_W0QQitemZ330295295887QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295295887&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 > > 2- CHERGACH H5 - 11.3g indiv - WITNESSED FALL!: This > Chergach individual is > not very big but really beautiful... About 95% fusion > crusted, with both > primary and secondary fusion crust... Have a look at it! > http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-CHERGACH-H5-11-3g-indiv-WITNESSED-FALL_W0QQitemZ330295295942QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295295942&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 > > 3- HaH254 L5-6 - 15.6g full slice: A full slice of this > nice L5-6 meteorite > with fusion crust all around the edges... do you want it? > Then have a look > at: > http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-HaH254-L5-6-15-6g-full-slice_W0QQitemZ330295296028QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295296028&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 > > 4- NWA XXX - 0.9g Partslice - HOWARDITE: Still at starting > price, this is > one of the last opportunities to get a piece if this very > fresh Howardite on > ebay... > http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-NWA-XXX-0-9g-Partslice-HOWARDITE_W0QQitemZ330295296088QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295296088&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 > > 5- SAH 02500 L3 - 81.3g fragment: $1.00 at the moment, this > is the level > reached by this 70% fusion crusted fragment of Sahara > 02500... Good Deal! > http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-SAH-02500-L3-81-3g-fragment_W0QQitemZ330295296174QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295296174&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 > > 6- SAH 03502 LL3 - 141.1g partslice: With its heart's > shape, this partslice > of Sahara 03502 should make you fall in love with it! So if > you are afraid > to fall in love, don't look at: > http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-SAH-03502-LL3-141-1g-partslice_W0QQitemZ330295296306QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295296306&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 > > 7- TATAHOUINE DIO - 1.5g - WITNESSED FALL!: Still at > starting price and no > bids yet, you can get 4 fragments of Tatahouine weighing > 1.5g all together > for $1.00 only! > http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-TATAHOUINE-DIO-1-5g-WITNESSED-FALL_W0QQitemZ330295296328QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295296328&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 > > 8- ZAG H3-6 - 12.0g frag. - WITNESSED FALL!: Displaying > both a slickenside > and the usual breccia of this famous meteorite, here is a > nice fragment of > ZAG still at $1.00... So have a look at: > http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-ZAG-H3-6-12-0g-frag-WITNESSED-FALL_W0QQitemZ330295296380QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330295296380&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 > > Thanks a lot for watching and once again HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! > > Frederic Beroud > http://www.meteoriteshow.com > IMCA #2491 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2009 07:18:47 -0500 > From: "Jerry Flaherty" > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of > the Day - > January 1, 2009 > To: "Michael Johnson" > , "Meteorite > List" > > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; > charset=iso-8859-1; > reply-type=original > > you rock!! > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Johnson" > > To: "Meteorite List" > > Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:11 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the > Day - January 1, > 2009 > > > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_1_2009.html > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2009 08:47:53 -0800 (PST) > From: steve arnold > Subject: [meteorite-list] happy new everyone > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: > <873952.45790.qm at web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hi and good morning list.I want to personally wish everyone > here on this great list a happy and prosperous new year and > a very safe 2009.For me my biggest wish is to get back to > work and stay working and get more sikote-alin meteorites.I > also look forward to seeing everyone in tucson in 5 > weeks.Have a great day everyone. > ? > Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! > href="http://chicagometeorites.net/">http://chicagometeorites.net/ > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > End of Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 1 > ********************************************* From mary.kashuba at verizon.net Sat Jan 3 14:32:56 2009 From: mary.kashuba at verizon.net (Kashuba) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 11:32:56 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteor shower In-Reply-To: <49722.71.226.60.25.1230997509.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> References: <140993.52482.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <611826B1081C4027AF69247CAF8385FC@ASUS> <49722.71.226.60.25.1230997509.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <001501c96dda$1488d660$3d9a8320$@kashuba@verizon.net> Larry, Thanks for the extra info on the Quadrantids. It's good hearing from the asteroid expert. - John -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:45 AM To: Larry & Twink Monrad Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] meteor shower Hi Twink: Yes, got beat out on the response that it was the Quadrantids (radiates out from a now-defunct constellation, Quadrans Muralis; mural or wall quandrant). It also appears to be related to a 2-km "asteroid," 2003 EH1. However, going back even further, there is a lost comet, C/1490 Y1 (seen in 1490) that may now look less comet-like and more asteroid-like, i.e. EH1 is really a defunct comet. Larry On Sat, January 3, 2009 7:56 am, Larry & Twink Monrad wrote: > I was asked to post this to the list since the Bakers were unable to do > so. Twink Monrad > > > 1/3/2009 > > > Does anyone on the list know if there is a current meteor shower? > > > Jake and I were out walking the dogs at 5:45 this morning and saw 7 or 8 > meteors. > > There has been some activity every morning or evening for the last week > or more. Our location is Show Low, Arizona, USA. Lat/Lon at our > airport is > > > 34-15-55N / 110-00-20W > > > > > The sightings have been almost over head, out of the NNE to NNW. The > display is less than a second with a very flat arc. > > 2009 is going to be a great year having seen so many meteors in the first > three days. > > See you at Tucson. > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > Barb & Jake > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From metlist at plu.to Sat Jan 3 14:37:49 2009 From: metlist at plu.to (matt) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 19:37:49 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD> Encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com website for sale >>> In-Reply-To: <493076.18184.qm@web23008.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <493076.18184.qm@web23008.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <495FBE8D.5020500@plu.to> This is sad news, Pierre has done an amazing job with the encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com site. I consider it the single most useful meteorite site on the net (just my personal opinion, no offense to others. David Weir's site is certainly up there too). It seemed a labour of love for Pierre, and although he sold advertising this was always restrained and never excessive. He clearly has the right to sell the site, and I hope he gets a fair price for the considerable (and most likely thankless) efforts he has made. That said, I'm concerned that the auction may only interest people with commercial motives. The more they spend, the more they may feel the need to recoup, which could be highly detrimental to the site in general. A second concern would be the purchaser getting access to a great deal of information regarding other peoples collections and the email addresses of 1100 collectors. I wonder how many people have listed a lot of their collection on the site? Although they may have pieces set to invisible to the public, the site owner (and anybody else with database access) can see them. I recall spaces for the dealer that a stone was purchased from, dates and prices. I always limited the info I placed on the site regarding my own collection anyway, but I'll be removing what I have entered in the database before it's sold. I can think of several ways access to this information may be abused, I trusted Pierre, I wouldn't necessarily be as trusting of the new owner (again, I'm not suggesting anybody in our community would abuse this position, just that the possibility exists). Hopefully the site will be bought by somebody with exactly the same philanthropic approach as Pierre demonstrated during his years of hard work on the site. A HUGE thank-you to Pierre for his work to date, and I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for the site's future... Matt. Pel? Pierre-Marie wrote: > Hello List Members, > > My new work doesn't allow me to keep working on the > Encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com website as I would like > to. I can't make the updates and make new features > available. > > So I'm selling my domain name > encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com and of course the > account and the complete website. That's the only way > for the website to be continued and updated. > > What you get ? > ---------------------- > - You get the domain name > encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com > - You get a website with over 1,100 members > - You get a Starter account at uplinkearth.com with > 3GB disk space, 2 domains possible, and much more > (follow this link for more info : > http://uplinkearth.com/hosting_packages.html) > - You get a complete DVD with a backup of the website > > Who can buy it ? > ---------------------- > Anybody of course but I would really like it is an > IMCA member or a well-known meteorite collector to > keep a high level of quality. > Also, you have to have a good programming skill if you > wish to maintain the website working or have a friend > as programmer (it's programmed with ASP and an MS > Access database) ; I won't have time to help the new > owner. > > How to buy it ? > ---------------------- > I'll start a sealed auction. Principle is nobody sees > the bid of others and, on January 31st, 2009, midnight > (Paris time), I'll stop the bids and warn the winner. > Of course, as all bids are hidden, you just make one > bid ! > > The starting price is US$500. I think it's a fair > starting price as I worked hundreds of hours on the > website and you get a complete website with > possibilities of advertising and cross-selling. I'm > sure the price gets high so make a good offer to win > it. > > BIDDING TIME STARTS NOW ! > > I'll help the winner to make the transfers with my > provider uplinkearth.com > > How to pay ? > ---------------------- > Payment will only be done with PAYPAL in US$ just > after the end of bidding. > > I thank you for reading, > > Pierre-Marie PELE > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Sat Jan 3 15:01:45 2009 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 12:01:45 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD> Encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com website forsale In-Reply-To: <493076.18184.qm@web23008.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090103200148.956F71053A@mailwash5.pair.com> Hello Pierre-Marie, I am sorry to hear that you won't have the time to maintain the Encyclopedia of Meteorites. I understand it is a tremendous task keeping it all up to date and appreciate the hundreds of hours of personal time you have put in to it. I certainly could not do it! I have always preferred the EOM over the MetBull Database and hope that, for the most part, the new owner of the EOM keeps things the same and take great care in the transfer of information. In my opinion, there's really nothing to fix. Thanks again for this most valuable and free resource. I really appreciate it! Best regards, Mike Bandli -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Pel? Pierre-Marie Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 9:38 AM To: MeteoriteList Subject: [meteorite-list] AD> Encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com website forsale >>> Hello List Members, My new work doesn't allow me to keep working on the Encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com website as I would like to. I can't make the updates and make new features available. So I'm selling my domain name encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com and of course the account and the complete website. That's the only way for the website to be continued and updated. From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sat Jan 3 15:03:05 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 03 Jan 2009 20:03:05 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Quadrantids 2009 Message-ID: Barb and Jake wrote: "Jake and I were out walking the dogs at 5:45 this morning and saw 7 or 8 meteors" George responded: "It was the Quadrantid shower which peaked in the early morning today (5 am PST)" Phil added: "I was out at 6:00 a.m. ... During the 5 minute walk, I saw 7 meteors" Hello All, See also S & T, Jan 2009, pp. 71-72 (excerpt): The Peekaboo Quadrantids The Quad shower is elusive because it's brief. At its peak it can produce 120 or more meteors visible per hour ..., but the peak lasts just a few hours at most. This year the peak is ... ideal for western North America, where the time is 5 a.m. PST before the first light of dawn. Best wishes, Bernd From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 15:15:21 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 12:15:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted to Buy : Catalogue of Meteorites by Grady In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <360310.86773.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi friends and listees! I am looking for a copy of Monica Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites. The reason I am posting here, and not buying it directly from an online book vendor, is because I am looking for a *bargain* copy. Ideally, I'd like to find a copy with some cosmetic issues that would lower the price a bit. It can be any edition - even an older one with the cover torn off and big coffee stain on page 263. If you have a copy that fits this description, then contact me offlist. I also do trades and have a collection with over 50 localities and oodles of UNWA - so I can do a partial trade with cash for the book if this sounds interesting. email - mike at galactic-stone.com Thanks for looking and clear skies! MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr Sat Jan 3 16:50:03 2009 From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?Pel=E9=20Pierre-Marie?=) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 22:50:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD> Encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com website for sale >>> Message-ID: <507575.30786.qm@web23007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hello Matt and other List Members, you're right about your interrogations for privacy of the information included in the Encyclopedia of Meteorites. I won't be able to keep an eye on the new owner but I wish he's a smart and respectful person who won't use these information for his business. When the bids are over on january 31st, I'll speak to the new owner and explain what the users are waiting from him. But that's all I can do. If we want the EOM website to live, I've to sell it because I really can't update it anymore (it takes several hours a month). The EOM is useful if it's updated... Pierre From mlblood at cox.net Sat Jan 3 17:15:25 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 14:15:25 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD> Encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com website for sale >>> In-Reply-To: <507575.30786.qm@web23007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Greetings Pierre and all, Pierre, I was concerned about your comment of hoping The new owner is not a meteorite dealer who would benefit >From the web site personally in any way. Being a dealer puts one in a position to contribute to the meteoritic community and not just be some kind of blood sucking leach! In fact, most of the dealers I know are major contributors to the community & some are truly outstanding in giving of their time & energy, Such as Anne Black, Adam Hupe - all the dealers who have served On the IMCA board (that is a LOT of work, folks), Paul Harris & Jim Tobin (Meteorite Times, Most of their Meteorite Exchange web Site), etc, etc. Of course there are many pure collectors who have also contributed plenty. The point is, any conscientious individual would be fine (I have No personal interest, myself). Just because someone makes money dealing meteorites does not mean they can't serve the meteoritic community as well. Most dealers do - some more than others. ALL of them have to make Money, as well, but these two things are in no way in conflict, even Though a few dealers have made their own beds that way. Best wishes to all, Michael on 1/3/09 1:50 PM, Pel? Pierre-Marie at pierremariepele at yahoo.fr wrote: > Hello Matt and other List Members, > > you're right about your interrogations for privacy of > the information included in the Encyclopedia of > Meteorites. > > I won't be able to keep an eye on the new owner but I > wish he's a smart and respectful person who won't use > these information for his business. > > When the bids are over on january 31st, I'll speak to > the new owner and explain what the users are waiting > from him. > > But that's all I can do. > > If we want the EOM website to live, I've to sell it > because I really can't update it anymore (it takes > several hours a month). The EOM is useful if it's > updated... > > Pierre > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Get 30% to 50% more gas mileage immediately (I did!): http://go4best.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/ From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 17:37:26 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 14:37:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Re : the new fall contunue// tichka mountains References: <638978.56683.qm@web110614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <325055.53886.qm@web62001.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hello all; some news from this mountain tichka fall, most of the stone found are broken they smash the mountain and the meteorite hit rocks of the mountain , and the result meteorite have not the time to refresh and it become cold fastly so it gives weathered and no crusts meteorite many broken stone and many?uncrusted meteorite ?so for the oriented or the complete it will be rare, thanks aziz habibi --- On Fri, 1/2/09, habibi abdelaziz wrote: > From: habibi abdelaziz > Subject: [meteorite-list] the? new fall contunue// tichka mountains > To: "meteorite list" > Date: Friday, January 2, 2009, 4:31 PM > hi again > just a short note to say, > that there is may be many kilos found and there is a fight > for it,split on 3 places,an area of more than 4000 km > square. > taddart tahanout and tichka , could be more places as far > as things goes we will hear defenitly tomorow of the > aproximate amount of kilo's, > the center of the fall is may be tichka mountain full of > snow now, according to the fireball and the sonic boum its > big. > it become from houre to houre sur that its sur that the > sample i get is from the new fall; > > my best > aziz habibi > > ? face="comic sans ms">habibi aziz > box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > phone. 21235576145 > fax.21235576170 > > >? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mark at meteorites.cc Sat Jan 3 18:22:33 2009 From: mark at meteorites.cc (Mark Crawford) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 23:22:33 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD> Encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com website for sale >>> In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <495FF339.8070507@meteorites.cc> Whoa, Michael :) Pierre said he hoped it wouldn't be purchased by someone who would "use the information for his business" - which isn't the same as saying not to a dealer. In fact, in the original posting, he explicitly said he'd prefer to sell to an IMCA member "or a well-known meteorite dealer". So I don't think it's fair to characterise his post as you did. A bigger question is data protection and copyright. There's no question Pierre can sell the domain and his web code, but the info in the database belongs to those who have submitted it. Same applies to the extensive images stored there. I think it's reasonable to insist that the new owner (curator?) respects our copyright and doesn't use the images/data for commercial ends without prior permission. Mark Michael L Blood wrote: > Greetings Pierre and all, > Pierre, I was concerned about your comment of hoping > The new owner is not a meteorite dealer who would benefit > >From the web site personally in any way. > Being a dealer puts one in a position to contribute to the > meteoritic community and not just be some kind of blood sucking > leach! -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc From epgrondine at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 18:27:52 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:27:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] More on the Younger Dryas 'impact event' Message-ID: <534392.50310.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi - Dr. Morrison is being disingenious. If you have a fragmented comet, and we've all seen them, then you end up with multiple comet fragments hitting - and we've all seen that as well. I wonder what year the impactite layer from Sandusky with the blast killed mega-fauna will actually get reported E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas >Well balanced with an edge to the sympathetic. >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7808171.stm From daistiho at hotmail.com Sat Jan 3 19:00:07 2009 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 00:00:07 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on the Younger Dryas 'impact event' In-Reply-To: <534392.50310.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <534392.50310.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: We have an accepted cosmic airburst event in recent history -- has anyone found substantial numbers of nanodiamonds as a result of Tunguska? If (compared to 'normal' background quantities) more were found in that area and could be linked to the airburst/impact, that would help substantiate nanodiamond deposits as an indicator. For that matter, what about comparing it to other confirmed mega-impact areas? Do the impactite layers also contain elevated levels of iridium? There are other markers that could bolster this theory. Tracy Latimer ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:27:52 -0800 > From: epgrondine at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More on the Younger Dryas 'impact event' > > Hi - > > Dr. Morrison is being disingenious. If you have a fragmented comet, and we've all seen them, then you end up with multiple comet fragments hitting - and we've all seen that as well. > > I wonder what year the impactite layer from Sandusky with the blast killed mega-fauna will actually get reported > > E.P. Grondine > Man and Impact in the Americas > >>Well balanced with an edge to the sympathetic. >>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7808171.stm > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sat Jan 3 19:25:57 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:25:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: Dec 29, 2008 - Jan 2, 2009 Message-ID: <200901040025.QAA11613@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES December 29, 2008 - January 2, 2009 o Channel (Released 29 December 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20081229a o Volcanic Vent (Released 30 December 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20081230a o Volcanic Vent (Released 31 December 2008) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20081231a o Volcanic Vent (Released 01 January 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090101a o Polar Textures (Released 02 January 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090102a k All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 19:32:06 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:32:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <506986.87051.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Listees, I have a quick question for the group - why are some falls not referred to as "hammers" ? For example, Allende and Holbrook are rarely referred to as hammers, but there are reports that both hit rooftops and other manmade structures. Both falls are generally referred to as "historical" but rarely as hammers. Is there a reason? Is it because the historical element outweighs the hammer element in these cases? Claxton is well known as a hammer, but historically-speaking it's otherwise unremarkable. Is this simply semantics at play, or is there some kind of formula at work? Regards and clear skies, MikeG PS - Michael Blood, please email me offlist. ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jan 3 19:40:17 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 19:40:17 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: <506986.87051.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <506986.87051.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1310m4l3q76oofi3173ehn11apuba48sj6@4ax.com> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:32:06 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >Is this simply semantics at play Yes. The concern with "hammers" is a small subset of what is already a small community of collectors. The only true measure of wherther something is a hammer is the level of legitness. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdk1gwWH-Cg From dave at fallingrocks.com Sat Jan 3 20:53:24 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:53:24 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: <1310m4l3q76oofi3173ehn11apuba48sj6@4ax.com> References: <506986.87051.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <1310m4l3q76oofi3173ehn11apuba48sj6@4ax.com> Message-ID: Darren, Michael & All, Semantics are absolutely at play -- and this is a roughly "defined" element of meteorite collecting at best -- but I'd beg to differ with them being of concern to "a small subset of what is already a small community of collectors." Hammers (I think Blood may have introduced this term to the meteorite world, though Johnny Carson ficticiously used it well prior to that in Niven and Pournelle's Lucifer's Hammer to describe a forthcoming comet strike upon the Earth...p. 78, paperback) are a huge element of the international collector base, and one need only take a casual glance at market prices to see this is true. I'm not a hammer collector by any means, but I've seen repeatedly in educational outreach work that there is a broader based appeal for such stories. They connect with virtually everyone, though amino acids in Murchison, while much more interesting to most of us here, do not. Further, our brains can't easily comprehend an entry velocity of 20 mps, but a car struck by a rock from space that was still travelling 200 - 300 mph -- well, everyone gets that. The term "hammer" has been overused virtually to the point of ridiculous (what makes them truly interesting -- the main mass hitting the only mailbox ever, or a small individual striking a piece of railing on a mile-long fence?). For the term to survive, my sense is that there should be some dilineation between a Hammer Stone and a Hammer Fall. Sylacauga is a wonderful story, but the material available to collectors didn't hit Mrs. Hodges on the hip. Associating all fallen individuals as hammers in conjunction with a single or few individuals out of 150 kg worth that actually hit something is also a bit of a stretch. Lastly, to my earlier point re: market pricing, the argument that not all of them are priced similarly is for the most part (though certainly not entirely) washed away by a look at respective TKWs. Two cents worth... All best, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:40 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 16:32:06 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >Is this simply semantics at play Yes. The concern with "hammers" is a small subset of what is already a small community of collectors. The only true measure of wherther something is a hammer is the level of legitness. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdk1gwWH-Cg ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at meteorites.com.au Sat Jan 3 21:01:10 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 13:01:10 +1100 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: <506986.87051.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <506986.87051.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Michael, There's another way to look at it too. The two falls you mentioned were massive and there were thousands of individual stones. In my opinion it's only a "hammer" if the individual stone actually hit something. For example you can't really say that the whole Allende fall was a hammer if only a couple of stones hit things. I guess it comes down to provenance too. Many of the good dealer/hunters these days get proof of where particular stones hit when chasing a fresh fall. In my opinion Thuathe was one of the best cataloged falls with MANY individual stones precisely recorded by both researchers and hunters alike. Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gilmer" To: Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 11:32 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? > > Hi Listees, > > I have a quick question for the group - why are some falls not referred > to as "hammers" ? > > For example, Allende and Holbrook are rarely referred to as hammers, > but there are reports that both hit rooftops and other manmade > structures. Both falls are generally referred to as "historical" but > rarely as hammers. Is there a reason? Is it because the historical > element outweighs the hammer element in these cases? Claxton is > well known as a hammer, but historically-speaking it's otherwise > unremarkable. Is this simply semantics at play, or is there some > kind of formula at work? > > Regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > PS - Michael Blood, please email me offlist. > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sat Jan 3 21:03:58 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:03:58 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? Message-ID: In a message dated 1/3/2009 7:56:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, dave at fallingrocks.com writes: Sylacauga is a wonderful story, but the material available to collectors didn't hit Mrs. Hodges on the hip. Dave, In 1999 I brokered a couple of pieces of Sylacaga from the King Collection that did indeed come from the stone that hit Mrs. Hodges. It came from a core sample taken from that very stone. Somehow Dr. King talked them (the local library or museum) into taking a small core sample from it, maybe he traded them some Allende for it. I think most of what is on the market of Sylacaga came from the King piece, but check the provenance. If the slices are round, or partially round on one edge, it is probably from that core piece. Steve Arnold #1 **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jan 3 21:10:28 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 21:10:28 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: References: <506986.87051.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <1310m4l3q76oofi3173ehn11apuba48sj6@4ax.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:53:24 -0500, you wrote: >but I'd beg to differ with them being of >concern to "a small subset of what is already a small community of >collectors." With no solid numbers whatsoever to back me up, I'd bet that there were far more people actively collecting and concerned about tag variants on Beeny Babies at their height than have ever even HEARD of a "hammer" meteorite. From John at Cabassi.net Sat Jan 3 21:17:51 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 18:17:51 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? References: <506986.87051.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com><1310m4l3q76oofi3173ehn11apuba48sj6@4ax.com> Message-ID: <009801c96e12$a768cde0$4564fea9@TITAN> 12 inches of hickory, 5 ounces of steel. Sorry, couldn't resist. ;-) John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 6:10 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? > On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:53:24 -0500, you wrote: > >>but I'd beg to differ with them being of >>concern to "a small subset of what is already a small community of >>collectors." > > With no solid numbers whatsoever to back me up, I'd bet that there were > far more > people actively collecting and concerned about tag variants on Beeny > Babies at > their height than have ever even HEARD of a "hammer" meteorite. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dave at fallingrocks.com Sat Jan 3 21:46:37 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:46:37 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <028FBF99A96243D9B49C0E9DC67A70B1@meteorroom> Hi, Steve, Well, pardon my ignorance, and I stand corrected. Apparently quickly picked a bad example, as I'm familiar with slices in private circulation that aren't as you described. That said, I am familiar with some material which is exactly as you've described it, so that makes sense. Anyway, hopefully the concept came through even though the example was a poor choice. How about Mbale? All best, and Happy New Year, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: MeteorHntr at aol.com [mailto:MeteorHntr at aol.com] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 9:04 PM To: dave at fallingrocks.com; cynapse at charter.net; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In a message dated 1/3/2009 7:56:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, dave at fallingrocks.com writes: Sylacauga is a wonderful story, but the material available to collectors didn't hit Mrs. Hodges on the hip. Dave, In 1999 I brokered a couple of pieces of Sylacaga from the King Collection that did indeed come from the stone that hit Mrs. Hodges. It came from a core sample taken from that very stone. Somehow Dr. King talked them (the local library or museum) into taking a small core sample from it, maybe he traded them some Allende for it. I think most of what is on the market of Sylacaga came from the King piece, but check the provenance. If the slices are round, or partially round on one edge, it is probably from that core piece. Steve Arnold #1 **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From dave at fallingrocks.com Sat Jan 3 21:50:18 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:50:18 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: References: <506986.87051.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com><1310m4l3q76oofi3173ehn11apuba48sj6@4ax.com> Message-ID: Darren, I thought you meant to say the community of hammer collectors within the meteorite collecting community was small -- relative to the international meteorite collecting community itself. Apologies for missing that...my bad. Many serious meteorite collectors look down their noses at hammer collectors, and that's where I thought you were going. Either way, an interesting thread on a seriously vaguely defined aspect of meteorite collecting... All best, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 9:10 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:53:24 -0500, you wrote: >but I'd beg to differ with them being of concern to "a small subset of >what is already a small community of collectors." With no solid numbers whatsoever to back me up, I'd bet that there were far more people actively collecting and concerned about tag variants on Beeny Babies at their height than have ever even HEARD of a "hammer" meteorite. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dave at fallingrocks.com Sat Jan 3 21:51:49 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:51:49 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: References: <506986.87051.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com><1310m4l3q76oofi3173ehn11apuba48sj6@4ax.com> Message-ID: PS - Sad, but true...no such solid numbers are needed to call the below a fact. -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 9:10 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:53:24 -0500, you wrote: >but I'd beg to differ with them being of concern to "a small subset of >what is already a small community of collectors." With no solid numbers whatsoever to back me up, I'd bet that there were far more people actively collecting and concerned about tag variants on Beeny Babies at their height than have ever even HEARD of a "hammer" meteorite. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Sat Jan 3 22:11:43 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 22:11:43 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 4901 write up request Message-ID: Hi list, I was planning on using some killer micrographs of NWA 4901, the ungrouped achondrite paired with NWA 011, in the article I do for Meteorite Times. I have found some interesting write ups on the material but I don't want to just copy-paste any thing that sounds interesting. I was thinking that some of you may already have something written on NWA 4901 and it's pairings. If you are willing to share, I will use it in the article Micro Visions and certainly give you credit. Last month Bernd gave me some beautiful wide field NWA 3151 Brachinite micrographs to use. Check it out on the current Meteorite Times. Tom **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jan 3 22:17:32 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 22:17:32 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: References: <506986.87051.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com><1310m4l3q76oofi3173ehn11apuba48sj6@4ax.com> Message-ID: <26a0m4h15rnbogpp97lvms68jusiumabpr@4ax.com> On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:50:18 -0500, you wrote: >I thought you meant to say the community of hammer collectors within the >meteorite collecting community was small -- relative to the international >meteorite collecting community itself. I would say that it probably is, when defined as a "main concern" for the collectors-- you have people who collect by type, people who collect by location, people who collect only witnessed falls, and people who collect based on wherther or not it hit some human artifact. At most, what percentage of meteorite collectors have "hammers" being a main collecting criteria? 10%? I'd bet that it doesn't approach 25%. It is, then, a small percentage of what is already a tiny (compaired to world population and compaired to other areas of collecting) group of people. My point being-- a term in use by such a small number of people and known by such a small number of people woukd, I think, be more vaguely defined than something-- say-- that would reach The OED or Encyclopedia Britannica (leaving the Urban Dictionary and Wikipedia out of the equation for the moment). From LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com Sat Jan 3 22:26:23 2009 From: LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com (LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 22:26:23 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? Message-ID: Good evening Folks, It's been a long time, but I'd like to add something: To me--as I have understood it for many years--a "Hammer" is nothing more than a meteorite that impacts a man-made object....and/or perhaps the occasional critter.....Nothing more--Nothing less. Best regards to ya'll, Paul, Savannah GA PS Happy New Year to all of you! In a message dated 1/3/2009 10:17:45 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cynapse at charter.net writes: On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:50:18 -0500, you wrote: >I thought you meant to say the community of hammer collectors within the >meteorite collecting community was small -- relative to the international >meteorite collecting community itself. **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From dave at fallingrocks.com Sat Jan 3 22:24:40 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 22:24:40 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: <26a0m4h15rnbogpp97lvms68jusiumabpr@4ax.com> References: <506986.87051.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com><1310m4l3q76oofi3173ehn11apuba48sj6@4ax.com> <26a0m4h15rnbogpp97lvms68jusiumabpr@4ax.com> Message-ID: <536A65E200884C98BBFD798B7805D682@meteorroom> Good points, Darren...and the list of collecting criteria could go on and on ad infinitum. Yet it would also be interesting to measure this hammer issue not in units but in dollars (or Euros or whatever currency). Like you, I have no solid statistics here (this arena really needs them badly, by the way), but, when looking at market price and/or relative price/gram (i.e. "value"), the representative percentage of both collectors in the community and specimens in collections would obviously be substantially higher than on a units basis. Whatever the statistics, it is true that a significant premium is paid by collectors for "hammers," and we could probably all (at least most) agree it would be a good thing to have a better definition of that term...at least a consistent one. -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:18 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:50:18 -0500, you wrote: >I thought you meant to say the community of hammer collectors within >the meteorite collecting community was small -- relative to the >international meteorite collecting community itself. I would say that it probably is, when defined as a "main concern" for the collectors-- you have people who collect by type, people who collect by location, people who collect only witnessed falls, and people who collect based on wherther or not it hit some human artifact. At most, what percentage of meteorite collectors have "hammers" being a main collecting criteria? 10%? I'd bet that it doesn't approach 25%. It is, then, a small percentage of what is already a tiny (compaired to world population and compaired to other areas of collecting) group of people. My point being-- a term in use by such a small number of people and known by such a small number of people woukd, I think, be more vaguely defined than something-- say-- that would reach The OED or Encyclopedia Britannica (leaving the Urban Dictionary and Wikipedia out of the equation for the moment). ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From pshugar at clearwire.net Sat Jan 3 22:30:35 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:30:35 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another teaching question Message-ID: <001d01c96e1c$d0c2d960$d0e11960@laptop> After many posts, I think that I now have a tenuous handle on the differences between Pallasites and Mesosideroites. Now the question is----------- When looking at the irons, the Wittmenstraden pattern and the thickness tell whether it is a Coursest Octahedrite or just an Octahedrite. And just for giggles which are the iron and which are the nickle bands? Pete From John at Cabassi.net Sat Jan 3 22:37:10 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 19:37:10 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? References: <506986.87051.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com><1310m4l3q76oofi3173ehn11apuba48sj6@4ax.com><26a0m4h15rnbogpp97lvms68jusiumabpr@4ax.com> <536A65E200884C98BBFD798B7805D682@meteorroom> Message-ID: <002201c96e1d$bd9d7650$4564fea9@TITAN> G'Day List This thread has been very interesting. Hammers have really not played an important part of my quest to seek knowledge, meteoritically speaking. But the discussions have been an eye opener, especially when it comes to a few mets that I had not considered. Mike, thanks for starting this. Steve, you continue to amaze me. Dave, what can I say? Thanks for all your input. I for one, have definitely benefited from it. As for my little humor on hammers, I sincerely apologize. It was in jest and not to throw anybody off the subject presently being discussed. I'm just a happy person by nature. Cheers John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Gheesling" To: ; Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? > Good points, Darren...and the list of collecting criteria could go on and > on > ad infinitum. Yet it would also be interesting to measure this hammer > issue > not in units but in dollars (or Euros or whatever currency). Like you, I > have no solid statistics here (this arena really needs them badly, by the > way), but, when looking at market price and/or relative price/gram (i.e. > "value"), the representative percentage of both collectors in the > community > and specimens in collections would obviously be substantially higher than > on > a units basis. Whatever the statistics, it is true that a significant > premium is paid by collectors for "hammers," and we could probably all (at > least most) agree it would be a good thing to have a better definition of > that term...at least a consistent one. > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren > Garrison > Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:18 PM > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? > > On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:50:18 -0500, you wrote: > >>I thought you meant to say the community of hammer collectors within >>the meteorite collecting community was small -- relative to the >>international meteorite collecting community itself. > > I would say that it probably is, when defined as a "main concern" for the > collectors-- you have people who collect by type, people who collect by > location, people who collect only witnessed falls, and people who collect > based on wherther or not it hit some human artifact. At most, what > percentage of meteorite collectors have "hammers" being a main collecting > criteria? 10%? I'd bet that it doesn't approach 25%. It is, then, a > small > percentage of what is already a tiny (compaired to world population and > compaired to other areas of > collecting) group of people. > > My point being-- a term in use by such a small number of people and known > by > such a small number of people woukd, I think, be more vaguely defined than > something-- say-- that would reach The OED or Encyclopedia Britannica > (leaving the Urban Dictionary and Wikipedia out of the equation for the > moment). > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From grf2 at verizon.net Sat Jan 3 22:47:27 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 22:47:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? References: Message-ID: <12CB6F5491B440BB83DA04ECC2D26B7F@ASUS> Now that's a hammer. Nice work Steve. Super piece ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? > In a message dated 1/3/2009 7:56:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, > dave at fallingrocks.com writes: > Sylacauga is a wonderful story, > but the material available to collectors didn't hit Mrs. Hodges on the > hip. > > Dave, > > In 1999 I brokered a couple of pieces of Sylacaga from the King > Collection > that did indeed come from the stone that hit Mrs. Hodges. It came from a > core > sample taken from that very stone. Somehow Dr. King talked them (the > local > library or museum) into taking a small core sample from it, maybe he > traded > them some Allende for it. > > I think most of what is on the market of Sylacaga came from the King > piece, > but check the provenance. If the slices are round, or partially round on > one > edge, it is probably from that core piece. > > Steve Arnold #1 > > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com Sat Jan 3 23:10:55 2009 From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:10:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <476131.37441.qm@web39606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Steve and List, Steve, are you absolutely sure the core came from THE Hodges's stone ( the one that struck her) and NOT the McKinney stone??? I have not actually seen the Hodge's stone in person, and maybe you have, so you MAY be right. But ... if I may quote a few words from "one of our illustrious members'" ( who I hope doesn't mind me using them, and that he will join in the discussion, too ) website that state: "....There were two stones - the one that hit the human and one other. The one that hit the human is the centerpiece in a local museum. No one has ever had access to it. However,the second stone is in the Smithsonion and though the remainder has never been available to the public, it did have one core drilled in it. This core ended up in the collection of Dr. King. After his death his widow allowed it to be cut into about 10 whafer slices all of which all ended up as primary specimens in private collections." So have you seen THE Hodges' stone in person and saw that there actually IS a hole drilled into THAT very one???? Thanks, Robert Woolard --- On Sat, 1/3/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? > To: dave at fallingrocks.com, cynapse at charter.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 8:03 PM > In a message dated 1/3/2009 7:56:11 P.M. Central Standard > Time, > dave at fallingrocks.com writes: > Sylacauga is a wonderful story, > but the material available to collectors didn't hit > Mrs. Hodges on the hip. > > Dave, > > In 1999 I brokered a couple of pieces of Sylacaga from the > King Collection > that did indeed come from the stone that hit Mrs. Hodges. > It came from a core > sample taken from that very stone. Somehow Dr. King > talked them (the local > library or museum) into taking a small core sample from > it, maybe he traded > them some Allende for it. > > I think most of what is on the market of Sylacaga came > from the King piece, > but check the provenance. If the slices are round, or > partially round on one > edge, it is probably from that core piece. > > Steve Arnold #1 > > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know > what is making > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Sat Jan 3 23:24:38 2009 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:24:38 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: <536A65E200884C98BBFD798B7805D682@meteorroom> Message-ID: <20090104042447.916A810554@mailwash5.pair.com> The problem with the 'hammers' is that some are not. For example: Pultusk, which is broadly referred to as a 'hammer,' when, without conclusive evidence, it is unknown what actual/individual stones or 'peas' struck artifacts. The same can be said about Murchison, Allende, and many others. I believe a true 'hammer' can only be a piece of the actual meteorite that struck the human/artifact and not the fall itself. The lure of hammers (to me) has been the material with irrefutable evidence and/or photographic documentation. To name a few: Strathmore, Claxton, Peekskill, and recently, 'Zunhua.' But then consider Ausson, which lacks any photos and or clear documentation - still a hammer? I think that the hammer category is great, but, like Dave said, there needs to be some clarity and consistency to what a hammer really is! Bonk! Mike Bandli -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Dave Gheesling Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:25 PM To: cynapse at charter.net; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? Good points, Darren...and the list of collecting criteria could go on and on ad infinitum. Yet it would also be interesting to measure this hammer issue not in units but in dollars (or Euros or whatever currency). Like you, I have no solid statistics here (this arena really needs them badly, by the way), but, when looking at market price and/or relative price/gram (i.e. "value"), the representative percentage of both collectors in the community and specimens in collections would obviously be substantially higher than on a units basis. Whatever the statistics, it is true that a significant premium is paid by collectors for "hammers," and we could probably all (at least most) agree it would be a good thing to have a better definition of that term...at least a consistent one. -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:18 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 21:50:18 -0500, you wrote: >I thought you meant to say the community of hammer collectors within >the meteorite collecting community was small -- relative to the >international meteorite collecting community itself. I would say that it probably is, when defined as a "main concern" for the collectors-- you have people who collect by type, people who collect by location, people who collect only witnessed falls, and people who collect based on wherther or not it hit some human artifact. At most, what percentage of meteorite collectors have "hammers" being a main collecting criteria? 10%? I'd bet that it doesn't approach 25%. It is, then, a small percentage of what is already a tiny (compaired to world population and compaired to other areas of collecting) group of people. My point being-- a term in use by such a small number of people and known by such a small number of people woukd, I think, be more vaguely defined than something-- say-- that would reach The OED or Encyclopedia Britannica (leaving the Urban Dictionary and Wikipedia out of the equation for the moment). ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Sat Jan 3 23:36:04 2009 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 20:36:04 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Your Specialized Categories? Message-ID: <20090104043615.1E36810542@mailwash5.pair.com> The 'hammer' category talk makes me wonder what other specialized categories people collect. The following specialized categories hold a special place in my heart and collection: 1. Orbitally Tracked meteorites 2. Filmed meteorites If owning a meteorite wasn't good enough, how about being able to watch the birth of your meteorite or know its orbit. While the list could go on forever, it might be interesting to see what other specialized categories others collect. (Aside from the obvious ones: types, historical, localities, witnessed falls, etc.) Cheers, Mike Bandli From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 4 01:16:13 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 22:16:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] ATQ: Taenite and Kamacite and Widmanstatten Formation Message-ID: <899795.63657.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> --- On Sat, 1/3/09, Pete Shugar wrote: When looking at?the irons, the Widmenstatten pattern and the thickness tell whether it is a Coarsest?Octahedrite? or just an Octahedrite. Q: And just for giggles which are the iron and which are the nickle bands? Pete A: Actually BOTH are iron and nickel bands! The two main minerals accounting for "Widmanstatten" patterns are the minerals taenite(P: TAA-nite) and kamacite(aka gamma iron in foundry parlance). They are both orthorhombic iron-nickel crystals, however, taenite is the face-centered form and kamacite is the body-centered version. That difference allows one mineral to contain more atoms than the other. Between the Widmanstatten bands are schreibersite bands(Fe,Ni)P and very fine grained non crystalized bands of taenite and kamacite molecules forming the mineral plessite. This is believed to be the "left-over stock" of migrating molecules when the molten metal froze in the process of moving toward their respective plates-- more later regarding coarseness of the bands. Proportions in the two minerals by weight and atom ratios: taenite: 79.19 % Fe 20.81 % Ni 8:6 max kamacite: 89.54 % Fe 10.46 % Ni 8:1 max Note: these ratios and counts are variable owing to several reasons not discussed here but close enough for discussion. Just remember taenite has more room for nickel atoms and kamacite has little room without forcing things too far. Diagrams of these molecular/ crystal models can be seen at: A face-centered "unit cell" has 14 atoms while a body-centered unit cell has 9. Ergo, a face-centered crystal has room for 5 more atoms and according to the stacking rules those are usually nickel. Overall nickel ratios vary and usually, this translates to roughly 25-30% nickel content over all in taenite. The body-centered kamacite stack favors just one: approximately 12%. Nickel is slightly more resistant to acid than is iron so the mineral taenite doesn't etch as fast as kamacite thus permitting the inducement of the Widmanstatten pattern. Taenite is the taller band. Coarseness is an indication of the length of time the crystal growing process was allowed to run within the body of the asteroid. Growth of both mineral plates occurs so long as the temperature remains above 400*C and below 900*C Generally this process is measured in declines of tens of degrees C per million years. This explains why terrestrial iron can only contain kamacite or plessite and can't show Widmanstatten patterns. There is simply not enough time or incentive for the separate minerals to migrate to their respective corners in human timeframes. This is also why only meteorites can contain Widmanstatten patterns and can't be faked with any known process. Note 1: This discussion pertains to Octahederites which are medium nickel to iron ratio containing meteorite types. Many points may not apply to to high nickle ratio, taenite-containing, Ataxites-- Nor low nickel ratio, kamacite-bearing, Hexahederites. The crystal forms and ratios don't always hold up at each end of the process. Note 2:: The occurrence of the two types of iron crystals occurs under a band of high temperature and pressure conditions. Taenite will revert to kamacite if the process were allowed to run to the end at lower temperatures. Technically solidified taenite is unstable and will revert to tetrataenite over "geological" timeframes. The transport processes which form kamacite over taenite are not the same and are driven by several factors and trace elements and phosphorous. Phosphorous bearing Schreibersite seems to form bands at the taenite plate surface and may act as a catalyst that forces its formation. It could also act as a reverse throttle making the atom sorting process slow beyond imagination. The generalized discussion above is close enough for understanding the basic process; it is the normal state of things but, as with most things in life, there are many situation-specific exceptions and nuances. I encourage anyone interested to take the plunge and explore them all. From waltbranch at bellsouth.net Sun Jan 4 01:35:45 2009 From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 01:35:45 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? References: <506986.87051.qm@web58405.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Mike, Greetings from a foggy night in Georgia! I created a list a while back of meteorites that had struck human, animals and man-made objects (what I called HAMs - Michael Blood extended the term to "hammers"). I did it for fun and to demonstrate the relationship between falls and population density. It used to be on the IMCA website but I don't it there anymore. I included witnessed falls which I believed had a reliable and valid reference. If you want a copy of the table, I believe I still have a copy and can email it to you. As to the issue of whether or not a given stone or iron actually hit something, I believe one can differentiate between a hammer stone (or iron) vs. a hammer fall. A hammer stone would be the actual stone which hit something (e.g., Claxton) and a hammer fall meaning a least one stone of a given fall actually hitting something (e.g., Allende). As to why someone may or may not describe a fall as a "hammer," some may simply be unaware of the status of a given fall (with regard to it actually hitting something) and some may play up other characteristics which are more scientifically interesting. For example, Dave's reference to Murchison is correct. Murchison is more widely known within the meteorite community as containing a variety of amino acids, rather than some fragments hitting something. That is the reason most people purchase it (and why there is a very nice piece is my collection - thank you Michael Blood). Some simply copy verbatim what others have written, without doing their own research. Hope this helps. -Walter Branch _______________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Gilmer" To: Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 7:32 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? > > Hi Listees, > > I have a quick question for the group - why are some falls not referred > to as "hammers" ? > > For example, Allende and Holbrook are rarely referred to as hammers, > but there are reports that both hit rooftops and other manmade > structures. Both falls are generally referred to as "historical" but > rarely as hammers. Is there a reason? Is it because the historical > element outweighs the hammer element in these cases? Claxton is > well known as a hammer, but historically-speaking it's otherwise > unremarkable. Is this simply semantics at play, or is there some > kind of formula at work? > > Regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > PS - Michael Blood, please email me offlist. > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr Sun Jan 4 02:44:15 2009 From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?Pel=E9=20Pierre-Marie?=) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 08:44:15 +0100 (CET) Subject: [meteorite-list] RE : Re: AD> Encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com website for sale >>> In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <784413.24284.qm@web23001.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hello Michael, As I'm not very fluent in english, I think my words were misunderstood. Everybody can bid to buy my website and domain. I just said that it may be a meteorite collector or a dealer. But a dealer has to separate his own business and the datas included in the Encyclopedia, especially the information added by the members. But I think most of the dealers of the Meteorite List are fair and respectful of that. Happy new year, Pierre --- Michael L Blood a ?crit?: > Greetings Pierre and all, > Pierre, I was concerned about your comment > of hoping > The new owner is not a meteorite dealer who would > benefit > From the web site personally in any way. > Being a dealer puts one in a position to > contribute to the > meteoritic community and not just be some kind of > blood sucking > leach! > In fact, most of the dealers I know are > major contributors to the > community & some are truly outstanding in giving of > their time & energy, > Such as Anne Black, Adam Hupe - all the dealers who > have served > On the IMCA board (that is a LOT of work, folks), > Paul Harris & Jim > Tobin (Meteorite Times, Most of their Meteorite > Exchange web > Site), etc, etc. > Of course there are many pure collectors who > have also contributed > plenty. The point is, any conscientious individual > would be fine (I have > No personal interest, myself). Just because someone > makes money dealing > meteorites does not mean they can't serve the > meteoritic community as well. > Most dealers do - some more than others. ALL of them > have to make > Money, as well, but these two things are in no way > in conflict, even > Though a few dealers have made their own beds that > way. > Best wishes to all, Michael > > on 1/3/09 1:50 PM, Pel? Pierre-Marie at > pierremariepele at yahoo.fr wrote: > > > Hello Matt and other List Members, > > > > you're right about your interrogations for privacy > of > > the information included in the Encyclopedia of > > Meteorites. > > > > I won't be able to keep an eye on the new owner > but I > > wish he's a smart and respectful person who won't > use > > these information for his business. > > > > When the bids are over on january 31st, I'll speak > to > > the new owner and explain what the users are > waiting > > from him. > > > > But that's all I can do. > > > > If we want the EOM website to live, I've to sell > it > > because I really can't update it anymore (it takes > > several hours a month). The EOM is useful if it's > > updated... > > > > Pierre > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > Get 30% to 50% more gas mileage immediately (I > did!): > http://go4best.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/ > > > > > > > > From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sun Jan 4 02:59:17 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 02:59:17 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? Message-ID: Hello Robert, To answer your direct question, no I have not seen the "Hodges's stone." However, in Dr. King's Meteorite Collection Catalog he listed the source of his Sylacaga specimen as, and I quote: "Source: Alabama Mus. Nat. Hist., Douglas Jones" Now, if anyone on the list has access to the Hodges's stone to examine, my hunch is that the core would have been removed from the bottom portion, as it is displayed, and the hole was probably plugged with something and colored so as to hide the fact that a core was removed. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but as I recall there were some correspondence letters between Dr. King and the Alabama Museum of Natural History at the time leading up to the acquisition. And there was a concern that any examination would not hurt the aesthetic appearance of the stone. However, it might be easier to ask the Smithsonian if their records indicate that any of their Sylacaga was traded to Dr. King. But with the conflict NASA (including Dr. King) had with the Smithsonian in the 1960's I seriously doubt any trades were done with the Smithsonian. As many of you know, we auctioned off the King Collection, and it would make some of you sick if you knew how cheaply that specimen sold for. I was surprised at the time, but then again, there were many great specimens in the collection being sold, and most people had to budget where they spent their money, so some things went a little lower than expected at that time. Since then, the value has appreciated to more reasonable levels. I hope this answers your question Robert? Steve Arnold #1 In a message dated 1/3/2009 10:11:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, meteoritefinder at yahoo.com writes: Steve and List, Steve, are you absolutely sure the core came from THE Hodges's stone ( the one that struck her) and NOT the McKinney stone??? I have not actually seen the Hodge's stone in person, and maybe you have, so you MAY be right. But ... if I may quote a few words from "one of our illustrious members'" ( who I hope doesn't mind me using them, and that he will join in the discussion, too ) website that state: "....There were two stones - the one that hit the human and one other. The one that hit the human is the centerpiece in a local museum. No one has ever had access to it. However,the second stone is in the Smithsonion and though the remainder has never been available to the public, it did have one core drilled in it. This core ended up in the collection of Dr. King. After his death his widow allowed it to be cut into about 10 whafer slices all of which all ended up as primary specimens in private collections." So have you seen THE Hodges' stone in person and saw that there actually IS a hole drilled into THAT very one???? Thanks, Robert Woolard **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sun Jan 4 04:03:52 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 04:03:52 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? Message-ID: Robert and all Hammer Heads, In retrospect, I didn't address everything in your last email. I just checked the website where that information you mentioned was listed, and I have no idea what that dealer's source was the history of his pieces. As he states there, he did not buy his pieces directly from our auction, but rather traded for them second hand. There is NO reason whatsoever to doubt that what Dr. King listed in his own private records is the truth. And I am certain that the correct information was passed on from me to all the potential bidders during the auction at that time. You should probably ask him directly what his source was for that information, but my hunch is that somewhere along the way, the exact facts were lost in translation when passed on to him. Oh, and if anyone can go to Alabama and look at the Hodges's Stone, bring a magnet. If the core was filled, and camouflaged well, a magnet should detect where a plaster or rubber filler might have been used. There is a slight chance it wasn't filled with anything, and the hole is still there. In any case, I will go on record and strongly disagree with the comments made that the King specimen came from the Smithsonian's sample. If that had been the case, Dr. King would have been listed the Smithsonian as the source and not the Alabama Museum of Natural History, which was, and still is, the repository of the Hodges's Stone. I guess for everyone that bought their Sylacaga in the past thinking it wasn't an actual hammer stone specimen: "Surprise, and congratulations!" For those of you that were thinking about buying some, but had not yet, I am sorry, as my guess is, the value of whatever is on the market has just "appreciated" in value in the last couple of hours. Happy New Year! Steve Arnold #1 Arkansas In a message dated 1/3/2009 10:11:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, meteoritefinder at yahoo.com writes: Steve and List, Steve, are you absolutely sure the core came from THE Hodges's stone ( the one that struck her) and NOT the McKinney stone??? I have not actually seen the Hodge's stone in person, and maybe you have, so you MAY be right. But ... if I may quote a few words from "one of our illustrious members'" ( who I hope doesn't mind me using them, and that he will join in the discussion, too ) website that state: "....There were two stones - the one that hit the human and one other. The one that hit the human is the centerpiece in a local museum. No one has ever had access to it. However,the second stone is in the Smithsonion and though the remainder has never been available to the public, it did have one core drilled in it. This core ended up in the collection of Dr. King. After his death his widow allowed it to be cut into about 10 whafer slices all of which all ended up as primary specimens in private collections." So have you seen THE Hodges' stone in person and saw that there actually IS a hole drilled into THAT very one???? Thanks, Robert Woolard **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From mlblood at cox.net Sun Jan 4 04:39:07 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 01:39:07 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve, Robert, Dave, Walter, Mike, John et al, Several comments: (I would have responded earlier, but I was watching The Chargers KICK ASS!) 1) Any information listed on my hammer page http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers.html Regarding Sylacauga is more accurately expressed by (THE REAL) Steve Arnold. I stand corrected by him on All accounts regarding this specific hammer. 2) Walter Branch's original page can be seen at: http://imca.repetti.net/metinfo/metstruck.html His reference to "HAMs" he states, is a reference to "humans, animals & man made objects" and is unrelated To my coining the term, "Hammer" in reference to any Fall that resulted in a stone striking one of the above. 3) Dave Geesling was essentially correct in stating that The "word," "HAMMER" first appeared in a book by Niven and Pournelle, entitled, LUCIFER'S HAMMER, Fawcett Crest, 1977. (Ironically, in the book, this term is a misnomer, as the Astronomer who first views the object and predicts a Huge earth impact was named Hamner, and it was a "religious" figure that stated that "Lucifer's Hammer" Was going to punish the people of the earth (much like The gobledgook vomited by the "religious" that state that AIDS is a punishment by God for the "sin" of homosexuality. I read this book 10 or more years before I got into meteorites But my use of the term "hammer" was, in fact, inspired To a degree from this book. However, I thought long and hard About the term I wanted to use before deciding to use "hammer." Since I was collecting them and determined to offer the largest Selection available of them, I felt a name was definitely called For and "hammer" it was. 4) When one coins a term, that person sets the parameters Of definition. Inevitably these parameters will change or Be refined over time. My use of the term "Hammer" was In reference to a meteorite that "nailed" something - specifically Human, animal or human made, just as was made reference to In Walter's work. Personally, I EXCLUDE roads and cultivars (varieties of hybridized fruit trees), though there are others who collect hammers that include them. 5) The entire fall is a "Hammer" fall and a specific individual that hit A specific object, animal or person is a "Hammer stone" (very, very Few irons)(the use of "hammer stone" was introduced by Adam Hupe. Though I originally debated his usage, conversations with him brought Me over to his side on this issue). Of course, one would always prefer THE hammer stone Of a fall or one of several.... For instance, I have 9 different Park Forest "Hammers" that include several houses, a car, a tow truck, A fire station, a baseball grandstand, fence, etc. However, in many cases The one or few hammer stones is not available (the guy in the boat Threw all that landed in his boat into the river, as they were clearly "evil"- Chiang-Khan) or the tiny Mbale stone that struck a boy.... I Have a photo of him holding it but no amount of research has resulted In finding ANYONE who can even say they have any idea of what Happened to that particular stone. As for Allende, Pultusk, Holbrook, etc, there is written documentation describing houses and patios, a train station being struck - I am working on a book that will cite a good deal of written records attesting to such events - the topic is far too extensive to include here. 6) I am amazed at the egocentric attitude of people who look down on others Who are "into" something that holds no interest for them. It would be like Me stating all NWA material is insignificant, regardless of rarity of type Because it is nearly all undocumented as to both date of impact and in The vast majority of cases, not reliably recorded as to specific location of find. While these statements may (or may not) have credibility, my personal Value system being applied is, relatively speaking, irrelevant. 7) Mike Gilmer asked why some falls were hardly ever referred to as "hammers" though they fit the description: Holbrook, Allende, etc. Yes, Mike, in those cases the fall, itself was so extensive and significant in Other ways that, though they included in any reasonable hammer collection, That is not their only claim to fame. 8) What percentage of meteorite collectors specifically collect hammers? This would be an excellent polling question for the list. If people want to Email me off list, I will count up the responses and report to the list. I believe the list currently has about 900 members (it is impossible to know Because a significant number of people use more than one email address To receive posts). Regardless, we could get some idea. From conversations I have had with collectors, my GUESS would be about 10 percent of all Collectors go out of their way to collect hammers (usually as ONE of their Interests in meteorites). However, a pole would be far more revealing, as Hammer collectors tend to contact me at a much higher rate than other Dealers, I am sure. When I opened my "Hammer Page" http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers.html I started with about 28 offerings of different falls. I now have over 40, I Belive. Both figures far surpass any other source I have been able to find Many times over. So, if people email me, I will report to the list. Here is how: Put ONLY "Hammer Collector" in the subject box (you don't even have to say Anything in the body of the text if you don't want to). Please DO NOT Include "Meteorite List" in the subject line - some days I get over 300 Emails in one day - guess which ones don't always get checked out? (anyone who would get a specimen SPECIFICALLY Because of its status as a hammer) - Neither the size of your hammer collection nor the size of the specimens matter - just, do you collect them. 9) I will report back to the list the number of people who said they Collect hammers. 10) HAMMERS RULE! Best wishes, Michael on 1/3/09 11:59 PM, MeteorHntr at aol.com at MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > Hello Robert, > > To answer your direct question, no I have not seen the "Hodges's stone." > > However, in Dr. King's Meteorite Collection Catalog he listed the source of > his Sylacaga specimen as, and I quote: > > "Source: Alabama Mus. Nat. Hist., Douglas Jones" > > Now, if anyone on the list has access to the Hodges's stone to examine, my > hunch is that the core would have been removed from the bottom portion, as it > is displayed, and the hole was probably plugged with something and colored so > as to hide the fact that a core was removed. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but > as I recall there were some correspondence letters between Dr. King and the > Alabama Museum of Natural History at the time leading up to the acquisition. > And there was a concern that any examination would not hurt the aesthetic > appearance of the stone. > > However, it might be easier to ask the Smithsonian if their records indicate > that any of their Sylacaga was traded to Dr. King. But with the conflict > NASA (including Dr. King) had with the Smithsonian in the 1960's I seriously > doubt any trades were done with the Smithsonian. > > As many of you know, we auctioned off the King Collection, and it would make > some of you sick if you knew how cheaply that specimen sold for. I was > surprised at the time, but then again, there were many great specimens in the > collection being sold, and most people had to budget where they spent their > money, so some things went a little lower than expected at that time. Since > then, the value has appreciated to more reasonable levels. > > I hope this answers your question Robert? > > Steve Arnold #1 > > > > In a message dated 1/3/2009 10:11:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, > meteoritefinder at yahoo.com writes: > Steve and List, > > Steve, are you absolutely sure the core came from THE Hodges's stone ( > the one that struck her) and NOT the McKinney stone??? I have not actually > seen > the Hodge's stone in person, and maybe you have, so you MAY be right. But > ... if I may quote a few words from "one of our illustrious members'" ( who I > hope doesn't mind me using them, and that he will join in the discussion, too > ) website that state: > > "....There were two stones - the one that hit the human and one other. The > one that hit the human is the centerpiece in a local museum. No one has ever > had access to it. However,the second stone is in the Smithsonion and though > the remainder has never been available to the public, it did have one core > drilled in it. This core ended up in the collection of Dr. > King. After his death his widow allowed it to be cut into about 10 whafer > slices all of which all ended up as primary specimens in private > collections." > > So have you seen THE Hodges' stone in person and saw that there actually IS > a hole drilled into THAT very one???? > > Thanks, > Robert Woolard > > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Metorman46 at aol.com Sun Jan 4 10:42:23 2009 From: Metorman46 at aol.com (Metorman46 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:42:23 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted to Buy : Catalogue of Meteorites by Grady Message-ID: It can be any edition - even an older one with the cover torn off and big coffee stain on page 263. Page 263= Kaaba-A stone in the sanctuary of the kaaba in Mecca is said to be meteoritic, p. partsch (1857). Kaalijarv-Iron (1 AB) Saaremaa estonia Find 1937 July 2.7kg. Kaba-Stone. chondrite.carbonaceous ( CV3.0).oxidised;Bali-type;S1 3kg.Debreczen,Hungary fall 1857 April 15,22:00 hrs. Kabakly- Dejnan district,turkmenistan find 1965 stone.chondrite,orkinary (H4) approx.rec wt.71.6g Kabo-Kano State Nigeria,Fall 1971.April 25,16:30hrs Stone.chondrite.Ordinary (H4),xenolithic 13.4kg. Kadonah-Agra district,uttar pradesh,india Fall 1822,August 7, night.Stone. chondrite.ordinary (H6) veined (weight not recorded for tkw). Michael;Good luck on acquiring your C.O.M. book they are a good reference. Best Regards;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770. **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From Metorman46 at aol.com Sun Jan 4 11:31:03 2009 From: Metorman46 at aol.com (Metorman46 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:31:03 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] ATQ: Taenite and Kamacite and Widmanstatten Formation Message-ID: Hello Elton; This is a great description of the processes that are required to form the widmanstatten patterns in iron meteotites.I think.I especially like the introduction of phosphorus into the equation,as V.F. BUCHWALD stressed in his descriptions of iron meteorites.I have noticed that the irons with the most phosphorus content seem to oxidize more rapidly after introduction into the earths terra firma.Your description is refreshing in that it gets us back to the basics of iron meteorite analysis,the newer researchers seem to blow by P. in their descriptions of irons.I think. Thanks for sharing with the list and good luck. Best Regards;Herman Archer. IMCA # 2770 **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Jan 4 11:29:23 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 11:29:23 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Michael wrote: "Dave Gheesling was essentially correct in stating that The "word," "HAMMER" first appeared in a book by Niven and Pournelle, entitled, LUCIFER'S HAMMER, Fawcett Crest, 1977. (Ironically, in the book, this term is a misnomer, as the Astronomer who first views the object and predicts a Huge earth impact was named Hamner, and it was a "religious" figure that stated that "Lucifer's Hammer" Was going to punish the people of the earth" Actually, it was sort of an intentional, or perhaps Freudian, misnomer, ficticiously coming from Johnny Carson (well known for intentional Freudian slips). Interviewing the ficticious astronomer, Tim Hamner, Carson said, "Tim, it's your comet. Could HAMMER-Brown actually hit us?" Hamner responds, "That's HAMNER-Brown." Carson laughs, "Oh, what did I say? Hammer? It would be a hammer if it hit, wouldn't it?" Fun read, by the way, and the initial conditions are remarkably similar to a real H-B comet that would arrive two decades later... Make it a great Sunday, everybody, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael L Blood Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 4:39 AM To: Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne; meteoritefinder at yahoo.com Cc: Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? Steve, Robert, Dave, Walter, Mike, John et al, Several comments: (I would have responded earlier, but I was watching The Chargers KICK ASS!) 1) Any information listed on my hammer page http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers.html Regarding Sylacauga is more accurately expressed by (THE REAL) Steve Arnold. I stand corrected by him on All accounts regarding this specific hammer. 2) Walter Branch's original page can be seen at: http://imca.repetti.net/metinfo/metstruck.html His reference to "HAMs" he states, is a reference to "humans, animals & man made objects" and is unrelated To my coining the term, "Hammer" in reference to any Fall that resulted in a stone striking one of the above. 3) Dave Geesling was essentially correct in stating that The "word," "HAMMER" first appeared in a book by Niven and Pournelle, entitled, LUCIFER'S HAMMER, Fawcett Crest, 1977. (Ironically, in the book, this term is a misnomer, as the Astronomer who first views the object and predicts a Huge earth impact was named Hamner, and it was a "religious" figure that stated that "Lucifer's Hammer" Was going to punish the people of the earth (much like The gobledgook vomited by the "religious" that state that AIDS is a punishment by God for the "sin" of homosexuality. I read this book 10 or more years before I got into meteorites But my use of the term "hammer" was, in fact, inspired To a degree from this book. However, I thought long and hard About the term I wanted to use before deciding to use "hammer." Since I was collecting them and determined to offer the largest Selection available of them, I felt a name was definitely called For and "hammer" it was. 4) When one coins a term, that person sets the parameters Of definition. Inevitably these parameters will change or Be refined over time. My use of the term "Hammer" was In reference to a meteorite that "nailed" something - specifically Human, animal or human made, just as was made reference to In Walter's work. Personally, I EXCLUDE roads and cultivars (varieties of hybridized fruit trees), though there are others who collect hammers that include them. 5) The entire fall is a "Hammer" fall and a specific individual that hit A specific object, animal or person is a "Hammer stone" (very, very Few irons)(the use of "hammer stone" was introduced by Adam Hupe. Though I originally debated his usage, conversations with him brought Me over to his side on this issue). Of course, one would always prefer THE hammer stone Of a fall or one of several.... For instance, I have 9 different Park Forest "Hammers" that include several houses, a car, a tow truck, A fire station, a baseball grandstand, fence, etc. However, in many cases The one or few hammer stones is not available (the guy in the boat Threw all that landed in his boat into the river, as they were clearly "evil"- Chiang-Khan) or the tiny Mbale stone that struck a boy.... I Have a photo of him holding it but no amount of research has resulted In finding ANYONE who can even say they have any idea of what Happened to that particular stone. As for Allende, Pultusk, Holbrook, etc, there is written documentation describing houses and patios, a train station being struck - I am working on a book that will cite a good deal of written records attesting to such events - the topic is far too extensive to include here. 6) I am amazed at the egocentric attitude of people who look down on others Who are "into" something that holds no interest for them. It would be like Me stating all NWA material is insignificant, regardless of rarity of type Because it is nearly all undocumented as to both date of impact and in The vast majority of cases, not reliably recorded as to specific location of find. While these statements may (or may not) have credibility, my personal Value system being applied is, relatively speaking, irrelevant. 7) Mike Gilmer asked why some falls were hardly ever referred to as "hammers" though they fit the description: Holbrook, Allende, etc. Yes, Mike, in those cases the fall, itself was so extensive and significant in Other ways that, though they included in any reasonable hammer collection, That is not their only claim to fame. 8) What percentage of meteorite collectors specifically collect hammers? This would be an excellent polling question for the list. If people want to Email me off list, I will count up the responses and report to the list. I believe the list currently has about 900 members (it is impossible to know Because a significant number of people use more than one email address To receive posts). Regardless, we could get some idea. From conversations I have had with collectors, my GUESS would be about 10 percent of all Collectors go out of their way to collect hammers (usually as ONE of their Interests in meteorites). However, a pole would be far more revealing, as Hammer collectors tend to contact me at a much higher rate than other Dealers, I am sure. When I opened my "Hammer Page" http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers.html I started with about 28 offerings of different falls. I now have over 40, I Belive. Both figures far surpass any other source I have been able to find Many times over. So, if people email me, I will report to the list. Here is how: Put ONLY "Hammer Collector" in the subject box (you don't even have to say Anything in the body of the text if you don't want to). Please DO NOT Include "Meteorite List" in the subject line - some days I get over 300 Emails in one day - guess which ones don't always get checked out? (anyone who would get a specimen SPECIFICALLY Because of its status as a hammer) - Neither the size of your hammer collection nor the size of the specimens matter - just, do you collect them. 9) I will report back to the list the number of people who said they Collect hammers. 10) HAMMERS RULE! Best wishes, Michael on 1/3/09 11:59 PM, MeteorHntr at aol.com at MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > Hello Robert, > > To answer your direct question, no I have not seen the "Hodges's stone." > > However, in Dr. King's Meteorite Collection Catalog he listed the > source of his Sylacaga specimen as, and I quote: > > "Source: Alabama Mus. Nat. Hist., Douglas Jones" > > Now, if anyone on the list has access to the Hodges's stone to > examine, my hunch is that the core would have been removed from the > bottom portion, as it is displayed, and the hole was probably plugged with something and colored so > as to hide the fact that a core was removed. My memory is a bit fuzzy, but > as I recall there were some correspondence letters between Dr. King > and the Alabama Museum of Natural History at the time leading up to the acquisition. > And there was a concern that any examination would not hurt the > aesthetic appearance of the stone. > > However, it might be easier to ask the Smithsonian if their records indicate > that any of their Sylacaga was traded to Dr. King. But with the conflict > NASA (including Dr. King) had with the Smithsonian in the 1960's I > seriously doubt any trades were done with the Smithsonian. > > As many of you know, we auctioned off the King Collection, and it > would make some of you sick if you knew how cheaply that specimen > sold for. I was surprised at the time, but then again, there were > many great specimens in the collection being sold, and most people had to budget where they spent their > money, so some things went a little lower than expected at that time. Since > then, the value has appreciated to more reasonable levels. > > I hope this answers your question Robert? > > Steve Arnold #1 > > > > In a message dated 1/3/2009 10:11:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, > meteoritefinder at yahoo.com writes: > Steve and List, > > Steve, are you absolutely sure the core came from THE Hodges's stone ( > the one that struck her) and NOT the McKinney stone??? I have not > actually seen the Hodge's stone in person, and maybe you have, so you > MAY be right. But ... if I may quote a few words from "one of our > illustrious members'" ( who I hope doesn't mind me using them, and > that he will join in the discussion, too > ) website that state: > > "....There were two stones - the one that hit the human and one > other. The one that hit the human is the centerpiece in a local > museum. No one has ever had access to it. However,the second stone is > in the Smithsonion and though the remainder has never been available > to the public, it did have one core drilled in it. This core ended up in the collection of Dr. > King. After his death his widow allowed it to be cut into about 10 > whafer slices all of which all ended up as primary specimens in > private collections." > > So have you seen THE Hodges' stone in person and saw that there > actually IS a hole drilled into THAT very one???? > > Thanks, > Robert Woolard > > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is > making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com Sun Jan 4 12:21:23 2009 From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 09:21:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Hodges Sylacauga Stone ( was What makes a hammer a hammer? Message-ID: <66317.72618.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Steve, Michael and all, Thanks for the additional information, Steve. Dr. King's quote does seem to put a different light on things. Just out of curiosity, has ANY member here ever seen THE stone (the "Holy Grail" of hammers I guess) in person? (Perhaps you, Martin with your exceptional interest in historical specimens?? ... I did see your Met. Times article where you discuss your Top 10 Smithsonian meteorites and you listed a slice of their Sylacauga specimen). Does any member live close enough to it at the Alabama Museum of Natural History to give us a report and/or some photos? There doesn't seem to be very many listed anywhere on the Internet.... at least that I can find. I'm sure a lot of us would love to see some high quality photos of it! Best, Robert Woolard ) From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sun Jan 4 12:35:50 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 10:35:50 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53420.71.226.60.25.1231090550.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Dave: Johnny Carson also is responsible for one other "famous" phrase: "billions and billions" not Carl Sagan. Larry On Sun, January 4, 2009 9:29 am, Dave Gheesling wrote: > Michael wrote: "Dave Gheesling was essentially correct in stating that > The > "word," "HAMMER" first appeared in a book by Niven and Pournelle, > entitled, LUCIFER'S HAMMER, Fawcett Crest, 1977. > (Ironically, in the book, this term is a misnomer, as the Astronomer who > first views the object and predicts a Huge earth impact was named Hamner, > and it was a "religious" figure that stated that "Lucifer's Hammer" Was > going to punish the people of the earth" > > Actually, it was sort of an intentional, or perhaps Freudian, misnomer, > ficticiously coming from Johnny Carson (well known for intentional > Freudian > slips). Interviewing the ficticious astronomer, Tim Hamner, Carson said, > "Tim, it's your comet. Could HAMMER-Brown actually hit us?" Hamner > responds, "That's HAMNER-Brown." Carson laughs, "Oh, what did I say? > Hammer? It would be a hammer if it hit, wouldn't it?" Fun read, by the > way, and the initial conditions are remarkably similar to a real H-B comet > that would arrive two decades later... > > Make it a great Sunday, everybody, > > > Dave > www.fallingrocks.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael > L > Blood > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 4:39 AM > To: Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne; meteoritefinder at yahoo.com > Cc: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? > > > Steve, Robert, Dave, Walter, Mike, John et al, > Several comments: > (I would have responded earlier, but I was watching The Chargers KICK > ASS!) > > > 1) Any information listed on my hammer page > http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers.html > Regarding Sylacauga is more accurately expressed by (THE REAL) Steve > Arnold. > I stand corrected by him on All accounts regarding this specific hammer. > > > 2) Walter Branch's original page can be seen at: > http://imca.repetti.net/metinfo/metstruck.html > His reference to "HAMs" he states, is a reference to "humans, animals & > man made objects" and is unrelated To my coining the term, "Hammer" in > reference to any Fall that resulted in a stone striking one of the above. > > 3) Dave Geesling was essentially correct in stating that The "word," > "HAMMER" first appeared in a book by Niven and Pournelle, entitled, > LUCIFER'S HAMMER, Fawcett Crest, 1977. > (Ironically, in the book, this term is a misnomer, as the Astronomer who > first views the object and predicts a Huge earth impact was named Hamner, > and it was a "religious" figure that stated that "Lucifer's Hammer" Was > going to punish the people of the earth (much like The gobledgook vomited > by the "religious" that state that AIDS is a punishment by God for the > "sin" of homosexuality. > I read this book 10 or more years before I got into meteorites But my use > of the term "hammer" was, in fact, inspired To a degree from this book. > However, I thought long and hard About the term I wanted to use before > deciding to use "hammer." Since I was collecting them and determined to > offer the largest Selection available of them, I felt a name was > definitely called For and "hammer" it was. > > 4) When one coins a term, that person sets the parameters Of definition. > Inevitably these parameters will change or Be refined over time. My use of > the term "Hammer" was In reference to a meteorite that "nailed" > something - specifically Human, animal or human made, just as was made > reference to In Walter's work. Personally, I EXCLUDE roads and cultivars > (varieties of > hybridized fruit trees), though there are others who collect hammers that > include them. > > 5) The entire fall is a "Hammer" fall and a specific individual that hit > A > specific object, animal or person is a "Hammer stone" (very, very Few > irons)(the use of "hammer stone" was introduced by Adam Hupe. Though I > originally debated his usage, conversations with him brought Me over to > his side on this issue). Of course, one would always prefer THE hammer > stone Of a fall or one of several.... For instance, I have 9 different > Park Forest "Hammers" that > include several houses, a car, a tow truck, A fire station, a baseball > grandstand, fence, etc. However, in many cases The one or few hammer > stones is not available (the guy in the boat Threw all that landed in his > boat into the river, as they were clearly "evil"- Chiang-Khan) or the tiny > Mbale stone that struck a boy.... I Have a > photo of him holding it but no amount of research has resulted In finding > ANYONE who can even say they have any idea of what Happened to that > particular stone. As for Allende, Pultusk, Holbrook, etc, there is written > documentation describing houses and patios, a train station being struck - > I > am working on a book that will cite a good deal of written records > attesting to such events - the topic is far too extensive to include here. > > > 6) I am amazed at the egocentric attitude of people who look down on > others Who are "into" something that holds no interest for them. It would > be like Me stating all NWA material is insignificant, regardless of rarity > of type Because it is nearly all undocumented as to both date of impact > and in The vast majority of cases, not reliably recorded as to specific > location of find. While these statements may (or may not) have > credibility, my personal Value system being applied is, relatively > speaking, irrelevant. > > 7) Mike Gilmer asked why some falls were hardly ever referred to as > "hammers" though they fit the description: Holbrook, Allende, etc. Yes, > Mike, in those cases the fall, itself was so extensive and significant in > Other ways that, though they included in any reasonable hammer collection, > That is not their only claim to fame. > > > 8) What percentage of meteorite collectors specifically collect hammers? > This would be an excellent polling question for the list. If people want > to Email me off list, I will count up the responses and report to the > list. I believe the list currently has about 900 members (it is impossible > to know Because a significant number of people use more than one email > address To receive posts). Regardless, we could get some idea. From > conversations I have had with collectors, my GUESS would be about 10 > percent of all Collectors go out of their way to collect hammers (usually > as ONE of their Interests in meteorites). However, a pole would be far > more revealing, as Hammer collectors tend to contact me at a much higher > rate than other Dealers, I am sure. When I opened my "Hammer Page" > http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers.html > I started with about 28 offerings of different falls. I now have over 40, > I > Belive. Both figures far surpass any other source I have been able to find > Many times over. > So, if people email me, I will report to the list. Here is how: Put > ONLY "Hammer Collector" in the subject box (you don't even have to say > Anything in the body of the text if you don't want to). Please DO NOT > Include "Meteorite List" in the subject line - some days I get over 300 > Emails in one day - guess which ones don't always get checked out? > (anyone who would get a specimen SPECIFICALLY Because of its status > as a hammer) - Neither the size of your hammer collection nor the size of > the specimens matter - just, do you collect them. > > 9) I will report back to the list the number of people who said they > Collect > hammers. > > 10) HAMMERS RULE! > > > Best wishes, Michael > > > > on 1/3/09 11:59 PM, MeteorHntr at aol.com at MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > >> Hello Robert, >> >> >> To answer your direct question, no I have not seen the "Hodges's >> stone." >> >> However, in Dr. King's Meteorite Collection Catalog he listed the >> source of his Sylacaga specimen as, and I quote: >> >> "Source: Alabama Mus. Nat. Hist., Douglas Jones" >> >> >> Now, if anyone on the list has access to the Hodges's stone to >> examine, my hunch is that the core would have been removed from the >> bottom portion, as it is displayed, and the hole was probably plugged > with something and colored so >> as to hide the fact that a core was removed. My memory is a bit >> fuzzy, > but >> as I recall there were some correspondence letters between Dr. King and >> the Alabama Museum of Natural History at the time leading up to the > acquisition. >> And there was a concern that any examination would not hurt the >> aesthetic appearance of the stone. >> >> However, it might be easier to ask the Smithsonian if their records >> > indicate >> that any of their Sylacaga was traded to Dr. King. But with the > conflict >> NASA (including Dr. King) had with the Smithsonian in the 1960's I >> seriously doubt any trades were done with the Smithsonian. >> >> As many of you know, we auctioned off the King Collection, and it >> would make some of you sick if you knew how cheaply that specimen sold >> for. I was surprised at the time, but then again, there were many great >> specimens in the collection being sold, and most people had to > budget where they spent their >> money, so some things went a little lower than expected at that time. > Since > >> then, the value has appreciated to more reasonable levels. >> >> I hope this answers your question Robert? >> >> >> Steve Arnold #1 >> >> >> >> >> In a message dated 1/3/2009 10:11:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, >> meteoritefinder at yahoo.com writes: Steve and List, >> >> >> Steve, are you absolutely sure the core came from THE Hodges's stone >> ( >> the one that struck her) and NOT the McKinney stone??? I have not >> actually seen the Hodge's stone in person, and maybe you have, so you >> MAY be right. But ... if I may quote a few words from "one of our >> illustrious members'" ( who I hope doesn't mind me using them, and that >> he will join in the discussion, too ) website that state: >> >> >> "....There were two stones - the one that hit the human and one >> other. The one that hit the human is the centerpiece in a local museum. >> No one has ever had access to it. However,the second stone is >> in the Smithsonion and though the remainder has never been available to >> the public, it did have one core drilled in it. This core ended up in > the collection of Dr. >> King. After his death his widow allowed it to be cut into about 10 >> whafer slices all of which all ended up as primary specimens in private >> collections." >> >> So have you seen THE Hodges' stone in person and saw that there >> actually IS a hole drilled into THAT very one???? >> >> Thanks, >> Robert Woolard >> >> >> **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is >> making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Jan 4 13:36:59 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 13:36:59 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hodges Sylacauga Stone ( was What makes a hammer ahammer? In-Reply-To: <66317.72618.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <66317.72618.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Robert & All, I'll run over there sometime soon (from next door in Georgia) and take a few photos. Anita Westlake, another www.meteoriteassociationofgeorgia.org member (the president, in fact), has a nice specimen that looks to have come from the core Steve described, and I'll bet she can be talked into a little road trip... All best, Dave -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Robert Woolard Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 12:21 PM To: MeteorHntr at aol.com Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Hodges Sylacauga Stone ( was What makes a hammer ahammer? Steve, Michael and all, Thanks for the additional information, Steve. Dr. King's quote does seem to put a different light on things. Just out of curiosity, has ANY member here ever seen THE stone (the "Holy Grail" of hammers I guess) in person? (Perhaps you, Martin with your exceptional interest in historical specimens?? ... I did see your Met. Times article where you discuss your Top 10 Smithsonian meteorites and you listed a slice of their Sylacauga specimen). Does any member live close enough to it at the Alabama Museum of Natural History to give us a report and/or some photos? There doesn't seem to be very many listed anywhere on the Internet.... at least that I can find. I'm sure a lot of us would love to see some high quality photos of it! Best, Robert Woolard ) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Jan 4 13:52:40 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 13:52:40 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Malotas Message-ID: <4928924B43BD43BAA78B688417EDE09D@meteorroom> I have an extra custom black aluminum bent label for this one. Shoot me a note if anyone out there needs one and I'll send it to you... Dave Gheesling IMCA #5967 www.fallingrocks.com From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Jan 4 13:53:09 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 13:53:09 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hammadah al Hamrah 181 Message-ID: <755779CFA3EB4F90AEF8BF5EB0552CC7@meteorroom> I have an extra custom black aluminum bent label for this one, too. Shoot me a note if anyone out there needs one and I'll send it to you... Dave Gheesling IMCA #5967 www.fallingrocks.com From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Jan 4 13:53:36 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 13:53:36 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dar al Gani 294 Message-ID: <2D60FE5135D74B26B01A61A445375029@meteorroom> Lastly, I have an extra custom black aluminum bent label for this one as well. Shoot me a note if anyone out there needs one and I'll send it to you... Dave Gheesling IMCA #5967 www.fallingrocks.com From freequarks at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 17:01:28 2009 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:01:28 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hodges Sylacauga Stone ( was What makes a hammer ahammer? In-Reply-To: References: <66317.72618.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <822da19a0901041401k11718160w20c8dcf6bd920b3@mail.gmail.com> Hi Robert, I've yet to see the original mass except in pictures. There are plenty of historic pics of the incident and the intruder if one does a google image search. Interestingly, it seems that the core sample under discussion is still floating in googles memory on this link: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.nyrockman.com/auction-2007/cp/sylacauga2.65g-cp.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.nyrockman.com/tucson-auction-2007.htm&usg=__BF3-jLFO0Us68kh3JzoNcuAhTFw=&h=119&w=145&sz=33&hl=en&start=28&sig2=KJYJDUh44g_uk4H8JzwIWQ&um=1&tbnid=_s-V363F_dw6CM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=95&ei=Ri5hSfrxLJ-0sQOQnLmHDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsylacauga%2Bmeteorite%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den-us%26sa%3DN This thread is a little painful for me since I remember being on the phone with Steve #1 as the slice of Sylacauga was active but ending in the King auction. There was another bidder (or two) I was up against going after Sylacauga. I finally bowed out knowing I would regret it someday. Well, that day is today. Back to my beer... Martin > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Robert > Woolard > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 12:21 PM > To: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Hodges Sylacauga Stone ( was What makes a hammer > ahammer? > > Steve, Michael and all, > > Thanks for the additional information, Steve. Dr. King's quote does seem > to put a different light on things. > > Just out of curiosity, has ANY member here ever seen THE stone (the "Holy > Grail" of hammers I guess) in person? (Perhaps you, Martin with your > exceptional interest in historical specimens?? ... I did see your Met. Times > article where you discuss your Top 10 Smithsonian meteorites and you listed > a slice of their Sylacauga specimen). Does any member live close enough to > it at the Alabama Museum of Natural History to give us a report and/or some > photos? There doesn't seem to be very many listed anywhere on the > Internet.... at least that I can find. I'm sure a lot of us would love to > see some high quality photos of it! > > Best, > Robert Woolard > ) > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mlblood at cox.net Sun Jan 4 17:17:33 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 14:17:33 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Dave, I am sure you are right. It has been like 30 years since I read the Book - EXCELLENT read - and that was before I was into meteorites, So, it held all kinds of fanciful stuff. I am sure major parts of the movies DEAP IMPACT and The one about the old grogers blowing up the Asteroid headed for earth were both influenced by this book. My favorite, of course, was the guy surfing the tidal wave Through downtown LA, dodging buildings as one must dodge Pier footings. Best wishes, Michael on 1/4/09 8:29 AM, Dave Gheesling at dave at fallingrocks.com wrote: > Michael wrote: "Dave Gheesling was essentially correct in stating that The > "word," "HAMMER" first appeared in a book by Niven and Pournelle, entitled, > LUCIFER'S HAMMER, Fawcett Crest, 1977. > (Ironically, in the book, this term is a misnomer, as the Astronomer who > first views the object and predicts a Huge earth impact was named Hamner, > and it was a "religious" figure that stated that "Lucifer's Hammer" > Was going to punish the people of the earth" > > Actually, it was sort of an intentional, or perhaps Freudian, misnomer, > ficticiously coming from Johnny Carson (well known for intentional Freudian > slips). Interviewing the ficticious astronomer, Tim Hamner, Carson said, > "Tim, it's your comet. Could HAMMER-Brown actually hit us?" Hamner > responds, "That's HAMNER-Brown." Carson laughs, "Oh, what did I say? > Hammer? It would be a hammer if it hit, wouldn't it?" Fun read, by the > way, and the initial conditions are remarkably similar to a real H-B comet > that would arrive two decades later... > > Make it a great Sunday, everybody, > > Dave > www.fallingrocks.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael L > Blood > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 4:39 AM > To: Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne; meteoritefinder at yahoo.com > Cc: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? > > Steve, Robert, Dave, Walter, Mike, John et al, > Several comments: > (I would have responded earlier, but I was watching The Chargers KICK ASS!) > > 1) Any information listed on my hammer page > http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers.html > Regarding Sylacauga is more accurately expressed by (THE REAL) Steve Arnold. > I stand corrected by him on All accounts regarding this specific hammer. > > 2) Walter Branch's original page can be seen at: > http://imca.repetti.net/metinfo/metstruck.html > His reference to "HAMs" he states, is a reference to "humans, animals & man > made objects" and is unrelated To my coining the term, "Hammer" in reference > to any Fall that resulted in a stone striking one of the above. > > 3) Dave Geesling was essentially correct in stating that The "word," > "HAMMER" first appeared in a book by Niven and Pournelle, entitled, > LUCIFER'S HAMMER, Fawcett Crest, 1977. > (Ironically, in the book, this term is a misnomer, as the Astronomer who > first views the object and predicts a Huge earth impact was named Hamner, > and it was a "religious" figure that stated that "Lucifer's Hammer" > Was going to punish the people of the earth (much like The gobledgook > vomited by the "religious" that state that AIDS is a punishment by God for > the "sin" of homosexuality. > I read this book 10 or more years before I got into meteorites But my use of > the term "hammer" was, in fact, inspired To a degree from this book. > However, I thought long and hard About the term I wanted to use before > deciding to use "hammer." > Since I was collecting them and determined to offer the largest Selection > available of them, I felt a name was definitely called For and "hammer" it > was. > > 4) When one coins a term, that person sets the parameters Of definition. > Inevitably these parameters will change or Be refined over time. My use of > the term "Hammer" was In reference to a meteorite that "nailed" something - > specifically Human, animal or human made, just as was made reference to In > Walter's work. Personally, I EXCLUDE roads and cultivars (varieties of > hybridized fruit trees), though there are others who collect hammers that > include them. > > 5) The entire fall is a "Hammer" fall and a specific individual that hit A > specific object, animal or person is a "Hammer stone" (very, very Few > irons)(the use of "hammer stone" was introduced by Adam Hupe. > Though I originally debated his usage, conversations with him brought Me > over to his side on this issue). > Of course, one would always prefer THE hammer stone Of a fall or one > of several.... For instance, I have 9 different Park Forest "Hammers" that > include several houses, a car, a tow truck, A fire station, a baseball > grandstand, fence, etc. However, in many cases The one or few hammer stones > is not available (the guy in the boat Threw all that landed in his boat into > the river, as they were clearly > "evil"- Chiang-Khan) or the tiny Mbale stone that struck a boy.... I Have a > photo of him holding it but no amount of research has resulted In finding > ANYONE who can even say they have any idea of what Happened to that > particular stone. > As for Allende, Pultusk, Holbrook, etc, there is written > documentation describing houses and patios, a train station being struck - I > am working on a book that will cite a good deal of written records attesting > to such events - the topic is far too extensive to include here. > > 6) I am amazed at the egocentric attitude of people who look down on others > Who are "into" something that holds no interest for them. It would be like > Me stating all NWA material is insignificant, regardless of rarity of type > Because it is nearly all undocumented as to both date of impact and in The > vast majority of cases, not reliably recorded as to specific location of > find. While these statements may (or may not) have credibility, my personal > Value system being applied is, relatively speaking, irrelevant. > > 7) Mike Gilmer asked why some falls were hardly ever referred to as > "hammers" though they fit the description: Holbrook, Allende, etc. Yes, > Mike, in those cases the fall, itself was so extensive and significant in > Other ways that, though they included in any reasonable hammer collection, > That is not their only claim to fame. > > 8) What percentage of meteorite collectors specifically collect hammers? > This would be an excellent polling question for the list. If people want to > Email me off list, I will count up the responses and report to the list. I > believe the list currently has about 900 members (it is impossible to know > Because a significant number of people use more than one email address To > receive posts). Regardless, we could get some idea. From conversations I > have had with collectors, my GUESS would be about 10 percent of all > Collectors go out of their way to collect hammers (usually as ONE of their > Interests in meteorites). However, a pole would be far more revealing, as > Hammer collectors tend to contact me at a much higher rate than other > Dealers, I am sure. When I opened my "Hammer Page" > http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers.html > I started with about 28 offerings of different falls. I now have over 40, I > Belive. Both figures far surpass any other source I have been able to find > Many times over. > So, if people email me, I will report to the list. Here is how: Put > ONLY "Hammer Collector" in the subject box (you don't even have to say > Anything in the body of the text if you don't want to). Please DO NOT > Include "Meteorite List" in the subject line - some days I get over 300 > Emails in one day - guess which ones don't always get checked out? > (anyone who would get a specimen SPECIFICALLY Because of its status > as a hammer) - Neither the size of your hammer collection nor the size of > the specimens matter - just, do you collect them. > > 9) I will report back to the list the number of people who said they Collect > hammers. > > 10) HAMMERS RULE! > > Best wishes, Michael > > > on 1/3/09 11:59 PM, MeteorHntr at aol.com at MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > >> Hello Robert, >> >> To answer your direct question, no I have not seen the "Hodges's stone." >> >> However, in Dr. King's Meteorite Collection Catalog he listed the >> source of his Sylacaga specimen as, and I quote: >> >> "Source: Alabama Mus. Nat. Hist., Douglas Jones" >> >> Now, if anyone on the list has access to the Hodges's stone to >> examine, my hunch is that the core would have been removed from the >> bottom portion, as it is displayed, and the hole was probably plugged > with something and colored so >> as to hide the fact that a core was removed. My memory is a bit fuzzy, > but >> as I recall there were some correspondence letters between Dr. King >> and the Alabama Museum of Natural History at the time leading up to the > acquisition. >> And there was a concern that any examination would not hurt the >> aesthetic appearance of the stone. >> >> However, it might be easier to ask the Smithsonian if their records > indicate >> that any of their Sylacaga was traded to Dr. King. But with the > conflict >> NASA (including Dr. King) had with the Smithsonian in the 1960's I >> seriously doubt any trades were done with the Smithsonian. >> >> As many of you know, we auctioned off the King Collection, and it >> would make some of you sick if you knew how cheaply that specimen >> sold for. I was surprised at the time, but then again, there were >> many great specimens in the collection being sold, and most people had to > budget where they spent their >> money, so some things went a little lower than expected at that time. > Since >> then, the value has appreciated to more reasonable levels. >> >> I hope this answers your question Robert? >> >> Steve Arnold #1 >> >> >> >> In a message dated 1/3/2009 10:11:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, >> meteoritefinder at yahoo.com writes: >> Steve and List, >> >> Steve, are you absolutely sure the core came from THE Hodges's stone ( >> the one that struck her) and NOT the McKinney stone??? I have not >> actually seen the Hodge's stone in person, and maybe you have, so you >> MAY be right. But ... if I may quote a few words from "one of our >> illustrious members'" ( who I hope doesn't mind me using them, and >> that he will join in the discussion, too >> ) website that state: >> >> "....There were two stones - the one that hit the human and one >> other. The one that hit the human is the centerpiece in a local >> museum. No one has ever had access to it. However,the second stone is >> in the Smithsonion and though the remainder has never been available >> to the public, it did have one core drilled in it. This core ended up in > the collection of Dr. >> King. After his death his widow allowed it to be cut into about 10 >> whafer slices all of which all ended up as primary specimens in >> private collections." >> >> So have you seen THE Hodges' stone in person and saw that there >> actually IS a hole drilled into THAT very one???? >> >> Thanks, >> Robert Woolard >> >> **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is >> making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > Get 30% to 50% more gas mileage immediately (I did!): http://go4best.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/ From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Sun Jan 4 17:17:59 2009 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:17:59 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 1 Kilo Ultra Grade SAU 001 Message-ID: <20090104221804.3988010551@mailwash5.pair.com> Good Day List, I have a beautiful 1 kilo 'ultra-grade' SAU 001 available for sale. I picked it up from Geoff Notkin several years ago. Here are some of his photos of it: http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/877141/SAU-001-1.jpg http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/877141/SAU-001-2.jpg http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/877141/SAU-001-3.jpg http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/877141/SAU-001-4.jpg It has dark coppery-black fusion crust and gentle regmaglypts. Material from the SAU 001 find can vary quite a bit, from relatively fresh to warty, heavily oxidized pieces. This is easily in the top percentile of quality and the least oxidized material from this find. A great stand alone display piece or you could make some killer complete slices from it. Asking $1/g. A quick search of Google will show that you can purchase much lesser quality for more than that price. Please contact me off-list if interested. Thank you for your time! Mike Bandli From mlblood at cox.net Sun Jan 4 18:36:52 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:36:52 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? In-Reply-To: <53420.71.226.60.25.1231090550.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: on 1/4/09 9:35 AM, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu at lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu wrote: > Dave: > > Johnny Carson also is responsible for one other "famous" phrase: > > "billions and billions" > > not Carl Sagan. > > Larry Hi Larry, But Johnny was making fun of Carl Sagan when he did that. Michael > On Sun, January 4, 2009 9:29 am, Dave Gheesling wrote: >> Michael wrote: "Dave Gheesling was essentially correct in stating that >> The >> "word," "HAMMER" first appeared in a book by Niven and Pournelle, >> entitled, LUCIFER'S HAMMER, Fawcett Crest, 1977. >> (Ironically, in the book, this term is a misnomer, as the Astronomer who >> first views the object and predicts a Huge earth impact was named Hamner, >> and it was a "religious" figure that stated that "Lucifer's Hammer" Was >> going to punish the people of the earth" >> >> Actually, it was sort of an intentional, or perhaps Freudian, misnomer, >> ficticiously coming from Johnny Carson (well known for intentional >> Freudian >> slips). Interviewing the ficticious astronomer, Tim Hamner, Carson said, >> "Tim, it's your comet. Could HAMMER-Brown actually hit us?" Hamner >> responds, "That's HAMNER-Brown." Carson laughs, "Oh, what did I say? >> Hammer? It would be a hammer if it hit, wouldn't it?" Fun read, by the >> way, and the initial conditions are remarkably similar to a real H-B comet >> that would arrive two decades later... >> >> Make it a great Sunday, everybody, >> >> >> Dave >> www.fallingrocks.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael >> L >> Blood >> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 4:39 AM >> To: Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne; meteoritefinder at yahoo.com >> Cc: Meteorite List >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What makes a hammer a hammer? >> >> >> Steve, Robert, Dave, Walter, Mike, John et al, >> Several comments: >> (I would have responded earlier, but I was watching The Chargers KICK >> ASS!) >> >> >> 1) Any information listed on my hammer page >> http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers.html >> Regarding Sylacauga is more accurately expressed by (THE REAL) Steve >> Arnold. >> I stand corrected by him on All accounts regarding this specific hammer. >> >> >> 2) Walter Branch's original page can be seen at: >> http://imca.repetti.net/metinfo/metstruck.html >> His reference to "HAMs" he states, is a reference to "humans, animals & >> man made objects" and is unrelated To my coining the term, "Hammer" in >> reference to any Fall that resulted in a stone striking one of the above. >> >> 3) Dave Geesling was essentially correct in stating that The "word," >> "HAMMER" first appeared in a book by Niven and Pournelle, entitled, >> LUCIFER'S HAMMER, Fawcett Crest, 1977. >> (Ironically, in the book, this term is a misnomer, as the Astronomer who >> first views the object and predicts a Huge earth impact was named Hamner, >> and it was a "religious" figure that stated that "Lucifer's Hammer" Was >> going to punish the people of the earth (much like The gobledgook vomited >> by the "religious" that state that AIDS is a punishment by God for the >> "sin" of homosexuality. >> I read this book 10 or more years before I got into meteorites But my use >> of the term "hammer" was, in fact, inspired To a degree from this book. >> However, I thought long and hard About the term I wanted to use before >> deciding to use "hammer." Since I was collecting them and determined to >> offer the largest Selection available of them, I felt a name was >> definitely called For and "hammer" it was. >> >> 4) When one coins a term, that person sets the parameters Of definition. >> Inevitably these parameters will change or Be refined over time. My use of >> the term "Hammer" was In reference to a meteorite that "nailed" >> something - specifically Human, animal or human made, just as was made >> reference to In Walter's work. Personally, I EXCLUDE roads and cultivars >> (varieties of >> hybridized fruit trees), though there are others who collect hammers that >> include them. >> >> 5) The entire fall is a "Hammer" fall and a specific individual that hit >> A >> specific object, animal or person is a "Hammer stone" (very, very Few >> irons)(the use of "hammer stone" was introduced by Adam Hupe. Though I >> originally debated his usage, conversations with him brought Me over to >> his side on this issue). Of course, one would always prefer THE hammer >> stone Of a fall or one of several.... For instance, I have 9 different >> Park Forest "Hammers" that >> include several houses, a car, a tow truck, A fire station, a baseball >> grandstand, fence, etc. However, in many cases The one or few hammer >> stones is not available (the guy in the boat Threw all that landed in his >> boat into the river, as they were clearly "evil"- Chiang-Khan) or the tiny >> Mbale stone that struck a boy.... I Have a >> photo of him holding it but no amount of research has resulted In finding >> ANYONE who can even say they have any idea of what Happened to that >> particular stone. As for Allende, Pultusk, Holbrook, etc, there is written >> documentation describing houses and patios, a train station being struck - >> I >> am working on a book that will cite a good deal of written records >> attesting to such events - the topic is far too extensive to include here. >> >> >> 6) I am amazed at the egocentric attitude of people who look down on >> others Who are "into" something that holds no interest for them. It would >> be like Me stating all NWA material is insignificant, regardless of rarity >> of type Because it is nearly all undocumented as to both date of impact >> and in The vast majority of cases, not reliably recorded as to specific >> location of find. While these statements may (or may not) have >> credibility, my personal Value system being applied is, relatively >> speaking, irrelevant. >> >> 7) Mike Gilmer asked why some falls were hardly ever referred to as >> "hammers" though they fit the description: Holbrook, Allende, etc. Yes, >> Mike, in those cases the fall, itself was so extensive and significant in >> Other ways that, though they included in any reasonable hammer collection, >> That is not their only claim to fame. >> >> >> 8) What percentage of meteorite collectors specifically collect hammers? >> This would be an excellent polling question for the list. If people want >> to Email me off list, I will count up the responses and report to the >> list. I believe the list currently has about 900 members (it is impossible >> to know Because a significant number of people use more than one email >> address To receive posts). Regardless, we could get some idea. From >> conversations I have had with collectors, my GUESS would be about 10 >> percent of all Collectors go out of their way to collect hammers (usually >> as ONE of their Interests in meteorites). However, a pole would be far >> more revealing, as Hammer collectors tend to contact me at a much higher >> rate than other Dealers, I am sure. When I opened my "Hammer Page" >> http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers.html >> I started with about 28 offerings of different falls. I now have over 40, >> I >> Belive. Both figures far surpass any other source I have been able to find >> Many times over. >> So, if people email me, I will report to the list. Here is how: Put >> ONLY "Hammer Collector" in the subject box (you don't even have to say >> Anything in the body of the text if you don't want to). Please DO NOT >> Include "Meteorite List" in the subject line - some days I get over 300 >> Emails in one day - guess which ones don't always get checked out? >> (anyone who would get a specimen SPECIFICALLY Because of its status >> as a hammer) - Neither the size of your hammer collection nor the size of >> the specimens matter - just, do you collect them. >> >> 9) I will report back to the list the number of people who said they >> Collect >> hammers. >> >> 10) HAMMERS RULE! >> >> >> Best wishes, Michael >> >> >> >> on 1/3/09 11:59 PM, MeteorHntr at aol.com at MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: >> >>> Hello Robert, >>> >>> >>> To answer your direct question, no I have not seen the "Hodges's >>> stone." >>> >>> However, in Dr. King's Meteorite Collection Catalog he listed the >>> source of his Sylacaga specimen as, and I quote: >>> >>> "Source: Alabama Mus. Nat. Hist., Douglas Jones" >>> >>> >>> Now, if anyone on the list has access to the Hodges's stone to >>> examine, my hunch is that the core would have been removed from the >>> bottom portion, as it is displayed, and the hole was probably plugged >> with something and colored so >>> as to hide the fact that a core was removed. My memory is a bit >>> fuzzy, >> but >>> as I recall there were some correspondence letters between Dr. King and >>> the Alabama Museum of Natural History at the time leading up to the >> acquisition. >>> And there was a concern that any examination would not hurt the >>> aesthetic appearance of the stone. >>> >>> However, it might be easier to ask the Smithsonian if their records >>> >> indicate >>> that any of their Sylacaga was traded to Dr. King. But with the >> conflict >>> NASA (including Dr. King) had with the Smithsonian in the 1960's I >>> seriously doubt any trades were done with the Smithsonian. >>> >>> As many of you know, we auctioned off the King Collection, and it >>> would make some of you sick if you knew how cheaply that specimen sold >>> for. I was surprised at the time, but then again, there were many great >>> specimens in the collection being sold, and most people had to >> budget where they spent their >>> money, so some things went a little lower than expected at that time. >> Since >> >>> then, the value has appreciated to more reasonable levels. >>> >>> I hope this answers your question Robert? >>> >>> >>> Steve Arnold #1 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 1/3/2009 10:11:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, >>> meteoritefinder at yahoo.com writes: Steve and List, >>> >>> >>> Steve, are you absolutely sure the core came from THE Hodges's stone >>> ( >>> the one that struck her) and NOT the McKinney stone??? I have not >>> actually seen the Hodge's stone in person, and maybe you have, so you >>> MAY be right. But ... if I may quote a few words from "one of our >>> illustrious members'" ( who I hope doesn't mind me using them, and that >>> he will join in the discussion, too ) website that state: >>> >>> >>> "....There were two stones - the one that hit the human and one >>> other. The one that hit the human is the centerpiece in a local museum. >>> No one has ever had access to it. However,the second stone is >>> in the Smithsonion and though the remainder has never been available to >>> the public, it did have one core drilled in it. This core ended up in >> the collection of Dr. >>> King. After his death his widow allowed it to be cut into about 10 >>> whafer slices all of which all ended up as primary specimens in private >>> collections." >>> >>> So have you seen THE Hodges' stone in person and saw that there >>> actually IS a hole drilled into THAT very one???? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Robert Woolard >>> >>> >>> **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is >>> making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Get 30% to 50% more gas mileage immediately (I did!): http://go4best.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/ From delraygoddess at yahoo.com Sun Jan 4 18:30:28 2009 From: delraygoddess at yahoo.com (Leigh Anne DelRay) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:30:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] question for thin section collectors Message-ID: <55211.93767.qm@web37104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I was wondering if anyone could tell me the typical way that thin sections are collected. I know that they are on microscope slides, but do people typically keep those slides in an old microscope slide box, or drawer of some sort? Is there a protective type case that is typical of thin section collectors? My boyfriend is a custom woodworker, and it trying to figure out a way to build a storage case for these. Thanks in advance, Leigh Anne DelRay From mlblood at cox.net Sun Jan 4 18:43:12 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:43:12 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hodges Sylacauga Stone ( was What makes a hammer ahammer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I had almost half a wafer cut from the core. Then I bought a full slice (very thin) of the core in the Al Lang Auction for $3,250. Unfortunately, all the larger pieces of the half Slice are sold now and only "sand grain" sizes remain. This is THE Hammer. Ironically, VALERA (which killed a cow and is highly Documented as having done so) sold for a couple years for under $10 per gram. It has been going "up" slowly, but steadily. Until/unless another person is struck and it is well documented Sylacauga will remain THE HAMMER. Best wishes, Michael on 1/4/09 10:36 AM, Dave Gheesling at dave at fallingrocks.com wrote: > Robert & All, > I'll run over there sometime soon (from next door in Georgia) and take a few > photos. Anita Westlake, another www.meteoriteassociationofgeorgia.org > member (the president, in fact), has a nice specimen that looks to have come > from the core Steve described, and I'll bet she can be talked into a little > road trip... > All best, > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Robert > Woolard > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 12:21 PM > To: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Hodges Sylacauga Stone ( was What makes a hammer > ahammer? > > Steve, Michael and all, > > Thanks for the additional information, Steve. Dr. King's quote does seem > to put a different light on things. > > Just out of curiosity, has ANY member here ever seen THE stone (the "Holy > Grail" of hammers I guess) in person? (Perhaps you, Martin with your > exceptional interest in historical specimens?? ... I did see your Met. Times > article where you discuss your Top 10 Smithsonian meteorites and you listed > a slice of their Sylacauga specimen). Does any member live close enough to > it at the Alabama Museum of Natural History to give us a report and/or some > photos? There doesn't seem to be very many listed anywhere on the > Internet.... at least that I can find. I'm sure a lot of us would love to > see some high quality photos of it! > > Best, > Robert Woolard > ) > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Get 30% to 50% more gas mileage immediately (I did!): http://go4best.water4gas.hop.clickbank.net/ From tett at rogers.com Sun Jan 4 18:42:27 2009 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 18:42:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] question for thin section collectors In-Reply-To: <55211.93767.qm@web37104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <55211.93767.qm@web37104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49614963.2070707@rogers.com> Leigh Anne, Mike Jensen (www.jensenmeteorites.com) sells the perfect little plastic container for thin section slides. See my pic here: http://picasaweb.google.com/MikeTettenborn/Meteorites#5287586654701879842 I do see that Mike's site is down and not sure why. I just received supplies from him a few weeks ago and visited his site over the holidays. Probably just down for a little bit. Cheers, Mike Tettenborn Owen Sound, Ontario Leigh Anne DelRay wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone could tell me the typical way that thin sections are collected. I know that they are on microscope slides, but do people typically keep those slides in an old microscope slide box, or drawer of some sort? > Is there a protective type case that is typical of thin section collectors? > My boyfriend is a custom woodworker, and it trying to figure out a way to build a storage case for these. > Thanks in advance, > Leigh Anne DelRay > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Sun Jan 4 18:59:39 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:59:39 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] question for thin section collectors Message-ID: Hi Leigh Anne, I'm answering on list so any one can correct me if I am not accurate in my assessment. First, a standard biological microscope slide is 1" X 3" or 25 mm X 75 mm. A standard petrographic slide is 25 mm X 45 mm. Quite a bit shorter! I have a large pile of petrographic slides (Meteorite thin sections) that I keep in those plastic cases Mike Tettenborn just posted about. I like the cases but I have often looked for a cool slide box fitted to the smaller petrographic slides. I have found many biological slide boxes. It would seem to me that the meteorite community would enjoy a quality petrographic slide box. Also, and this is just a personal observation, I would think that the collectors with a quantity of slides, worth hundreds and at times thousands each, would appreciate a beautiful work of art and not just an other box. I have found some vintage black bake light boxes in the smaller size but that is about as cool as I could come up with after a lot of searching. The great old wood Victorian Microscope slide boxes are almost entirely the larger size. Post the list if he makes any!!! Tom In a message dated 1/4/2009 4:30:53 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, delraygoddess at yahoo.com writes: I was wondering if anyone could tell me the typical way that thin sections are collected. I know that they are on microscope slides, but do people typically keep those slides in an old microscope slide box, or drawer of some sort? Is there a protective type case that is typical of thin section collectors? My boyfriend is a custom woodworker, and it trying to figure out a way to build a storage case for these. Thanks in advance, Leigh Anne DelRay ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Sun Jan 4 19:10:16 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 19:10:16 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Galvanic Cleaning of Rusters Message-ID: Greetings, all, I wanted to share (re-post?) a tip for galvanic cleaning of rusty irons. Common and safe materials, quick, easy, and very effective! The instructions are here: http://www.meteoritemarket.com/Galvanic.pdf http://www.meteoritemarket.com/Galvanic.pdf I stumbled on it some time ago at our own Eric Twelker's informative site: http://www.meteoritemarket.com/ http://www.meteoritemarket.com/ ... but hadn't tried it until recently. I have a 5 kg Campo, some smaller Campos, and a couple of Sikhote-Alins that were rusting, flaking, or showing small relentless beads of moisture in spots no matter what I tried to stop it. If there is an easy way to come to an end I'll take it, so I was determined to give this galvanic method a shot and I am delighted with the results! The largest Campo was covered in a red oxidized powder and orange spots all over, especially in the regmaglypts, - One Campo was flaking so badly that I could hear pieces falling off whenever I walked into the same room, - Smaller Campos with a few weeping and rusting spots, - two Sikhote-Alin shrapnel that had almost no rust but a dark material build-up where there were weeping spots, which I suspect was some type of oil. I also had a small broken-off piece of a badly rusted Branhin rusted so badly there was nothing to lose by trying. I used Arm and Hammer washing soda, cheap at Walmart, and distilled water. I also used heavy-duty aluminum foil to wrap the specimens, along with some additional chunks of high-quality aluminum thrown in, salvaged from old computer parts. Can any chemists advise if the extra would make a difference? When I cleaned the smaller ones I did all pieces at the same time. I used a "microwave safe" plastic tub (which I got at a dollar store) capable of handling the boiling water, and for after the galvanizing I used a variety of synthetic bristle brushes I got there, too, including a very useful denture toothbrush (superior to a regular toothbrush) for tight spots https://jawproducts.authsecure.com/images/denturebrushlarge_all.jpg A word of warning - don't use a brush you want to use for anything other than this - the bristles turn black, and I haven't discovered a way to clean them, yet. I am pleased to report that the results were absolutely brilliant! Beyond my expectations! I didn't even have to follow up with a steel bristle brush. All the Campos and S/A look nice and clean, with the black fusion crust looking fresh. There have been chats here about appreciation of patina, but for me active rust is something different. It's been just over a month, now, and I don't see any re-occurring signs of moisture droplets or rusting. Even the flaking seems to have ceased! The Branhin doesn't rust anymore, either, but as cautioned in the article I don't think it is a good idea to galvanize any pallasite. Acknowledgements and appreciation to Erik, and the authoring Ray Pickard of the Bathurst Observatory in Australia. Cheers, Pete _________________________________________________________________ From yellowengine at earthlink.net Sun Jan 4 19:13:32 2009 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:13:32 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] The Term "Aerolite" on collection labels. Message-ID: <14319954.1231114412732.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Good Evning List, Here is a question; perhpas some of the older list members may be able to offer their opinion - In what years was the term "aerolite" used for stoney meteorites? I have a small, labeled test tube containing fragments of the Waconda, KS meteorite. The collection label that it came with is written on ruled paper (turning yellowish brown) and reads "Areolite: Date of find 1873, Waconda, Mitchel Co. Kansas". Is there any way of determining approximately when this label was written? The handwriting looks gothic. Best Regards, Ryan From jamespault at att.net Sun Jan 4 19:22:27 2009 From: jamespault at att.net (James Tobin) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:22:27 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] question for thin section collectors References: <55211.93767.qm@web37104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49614963.2070707@rogers.com> Message-ID: <005601c96ecb$b80a50b0$4001a8c0@Jimscomputer> Hello List, Ward Geology has slide boxes and slide cabinets for holding from 100 to 1000 slides or more. The prices are about twice what is in my old 1998 catalog when I bought mine. 100 slide box cat# 30 V 4801 500 slide cabinet cat# 30 V 0800 750 slide cabinet cat# 30 V 0805 The cabinets can be used holding one slide or two per compartment thus the higher holding capacity. Catalogue number used to have H now have a V but old numbers seem to work in the search product spot on the website. Just google up Ward Geology Hope everyone is having a wonderful new year, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "tett" To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] question for thin section collectors > Leigh Anne, > > Mike Jensen (www.jensenmeteorites.com) sells the perfect little plastic > container for thin section slides. > > See my pic here: > http://picasaweb.google.com/MikeTettenborn/Meteorites#5287586654701879842 > > I do see that Mike's site is down and not sure why. I just received > supplies from him a few weeks ago and visited his site over the holidays. > Probably just down for a little bit. > > Cheers, > > Mike Tettenborn > Owen Sound, Ontario > > Leigh Anne DelRay wrote: >> >> I was wondering if anyone could tell me the typical way that thin >> sections are collected. I know that they are on microscope slides, but do >> people typically keep those slides in an old microscope slide box, or >> drawer of some sort? >> Is there a protective type case that is typical of thin section >> collectors? >> My boyfriend is a custom woodworker, and it trying to figure out a way to >> build a storage case for these. >> Thanks in advance, >> Leigh Anne DelRay >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mlblood at cox.net Sun Jan 4 19:51:17 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:51:17 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] question for thin section collectors In-Reply-To: <55211.93767.qm@web37104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Leigh Anne, Attached are JPGs of the 3 types of boxes I use for my personal collection. I am SURE there are other types. I suggest you Google Thin Section Boxes or Thin Sections for many more. NOTE: The email to the list will NOT have the photos attached. Best wishes, Michael PS: I have larger photos if you want me to send them one at a time - just Let me know. PPS: Look foreword to seeing anything your boyfriend might make! on 1/4/09 3:30 PM, Leigh Anne DelRay at delraygoddess at yahoo.com wrote: > I was wondering if anyone could tell me the typical way that thin sections are > collected. I know that they are on microscope slides, but do people typically > keep those slides in an old microscope slide box, or drawer of some sort? > Is there a protective type case that is typical of thin section collectors? > My boyfriend is a custom woodworker, and it trying to figure out a way to > build a storage case for these. > Thanks in advance, > Leigh Anne DelRay From jamespault at att.net Sun Jan 4 19:50:16 2009 From: jamespault at att.net (James Tobin) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 16:50:16 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] TS slide boxes Message-ID: <006601c96ecf$95305c70$4001a8c0@Jimscomputer> Hi List, I must not have anything better to do today. Miners Incorporated also has petrographic glass slide boxes and wooden cases. The nicer wooden cases are at https://minerox.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=1356&CFID=1553105&CFTOKEN=51568253 Just click the "choose one" to see the prices of the large capacity cases. These are still fairly well priced compared to my old 1999 printed catalogue. Best, Jim Oh by the way the size is usually 28 x 48 mm but they do come in 26 x 46 mm, they are even listed as 27 x 46 as in Wards Catalogue. But, my experience is they all will fit in the boxes. The 25x45 is the size of the cover glasses most of the time. I do wish they could just make one size. From mary.kashuba at verizon.net Sun Jan 4 20:02:03 2009 From: mary.kashuba at verizon.net (Kashuba) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:02:03 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] question for thin section collectors In-Reply-To: <55211.93767.qm@web37104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <55211.93767.qm@web37104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006701c96ed1$39144620$ab3cd260$@kashuba@verizon.net> Burnham Petrographics sells a box that looks the same as Wards' for $18.45. http://burnhampetrographics.com/petropoxy/ppp.php http://burnhampetrographics.com/pdfs/pricelists/ppp_prices.pdf More pictures here plus a do-it-yourself wooden version. The outside box held silver flatware. The top was fitted with a velvet pad that held the slides still. I don't use it anymore. http://johnkashuba.com/Pages/Meteorite%20Pages/Topics/Thinsectionstorage.htm -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Leigh Anne DelRay Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 3:30 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] question for thin section collectors I was wondering if anyone could tell me the typical way that thin sections are collected. I know that they are on microscope slides, but do people typically keep those slides in an old microscope slide box, or drawer of some sort? Is there a protective type case that is typical of thin section collectors? My boyfriend is a custom woodworker, and it trying to figure out a way to build a storage case for these. Thanks in advance, Leigh Anne DelRay ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Sun Jan 4 20:16:37 2009 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 19:16:37 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Galvanic Cleaning of Rusters Message-ID: <1f291034947c4cd389d6af4ad486e18b@ucv1.vhostdns.com> I wish to throw in my research on galvanic cleaning to the list. I used the sites listed and also had the advantage of consulting a chemist. The targets were deport iron, specifically the ones found deep. For odd reasons, deports found shallow were stable, while deepers where not. The solution that worked best was the distilled water, 99% alcohol, and lye (sodium hydroxide?). Leave the irons to soak in that solution will only have a slight electrolytic effect. To really pull out chlorides, its best to wrap the irons in aluminum. The aluminum is converted fairly fast, so don't use foil. Better is to use old aluminum cans replacing when needed, they last longer. After 2 months, remove iron, wash in distilled, wash in 99% alcohol, then cook for several hours. From then on, no problems. -mt > Greetings, all, > > I wanted to share (re-post?) a tip for galvanic cleaning of rusty irons. > Common and safe materials, quick, easy, and very effective! > > The instructions are here: > http://www.meteoritemarket.com/Galvanic.pdf > http://www.meteoritemarket.com/Galvanic.pdf > > I stumbled on it some time ago at our own Eric Twelker's informative site: > http://www.meteoritemarket.com/ > http://www.meteoritemarket.com/ > > ... but hadn't tried it until recently. > > > I have a 5 kg Campo, some smaller Campos, and a couple of Sikhote-Alins that were rusting, flaking, or showing small relentless beads of moisture in spots no matter what I tried to stop it. > > If there is an easy way to come to an end I'll take it, so I was determined to give this galvanic method a shot and I am delighted with the results! > > The largest Campo was covered in a red oxidized powder and orange spots all over, especially in the regmaglypts, > - One Campo was flaking so badly that I could hear pieces falling off whenever I walked into the same room, > - Smaller Campos with a few weeping and rusting spots, > - two Sikhote-Alin shrapnel that had almost no rust but a dark material build-up where there were weeping spots, which I suspect was some type of oil. > > I also had a small broken-off piece of a badly rusted Branhin rusted so badly there was nothing to lose by trying. > > I used Arm and Hammer washing soda, cheap at Walmart, and distilled water. > I also used heavy-duty aluminum foil to wrap the specimens, along with some additional chunks of high-quality aluminum thrown in, salvaged from old computer parts. Can any chemists advise if the extra would make a difference? > > When I cleaned the smaller ones I did all pieces at the same time. > > I used a "microwave safe" plastic tub (which I got at a dollar store) capable of handling the boiling water, and for after the galvanizing I used a variety of synthetic bristle brushes I got there, too, including a very useful denture toothbrush (superior to a regular toothbrush) for tight spots https://jawproducts.authsecure.com/images/denturebrushlarge_all.jpg > > > A word of warning - don't use a brush you want to use for anything other than this - the bristles turn black, and I haven't discovered a way to clean them, yet. > > > I am pleased to report that the results were absolutely brilliant! Beyond my expectations! > > I didn't even have to follow up with a steel bristle brush. > All the Campos and S/A look nice and clean, with the black fusion crust looking fresh. > > There have been chats here about appreciation of patina, but for me active rust is something different. > > It's been just over a month, now, and I don't see any re-occurring signs of moisture droplets or rusting. > Even the flaking seems to have ceased! > > The Branhin doesn't rust anymore, either, but as cautioned in the article I don't think it is a good idea to galvanize any pallasite. > > > Acknowledgements and appreciation to Erik, and the authoring Ray Pickard of the Bathurst Observatory in Australia. > > > Cheers, > Pete > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Impactika at aol.com Sun Jan 4 20:20:38 2009 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 20:20:38 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Hammers and Thin-Sections Message-ID: Hello Walter, and List members, Walter, you will now find your great table of Hammer-Meteorites on the IMCA website, you will have to go to the "Met.Info." section, then on the Menu, in the left column you will find a listing for "the Hammer page". It is a great page and I am sorry it took so long to get it back. I am told it is entirely due to a technical problem, so don't ask me for the details. And there are several other great pages from the old IMCA site that we have not been able to transfer yet for similar reasons. Now, for the thin-sections. The most common size seems to be 46mm x 27mm. Anyway that is the size used by the expert who makes all the thin-sections on my Catalog. But I always mail them in those little plastic boxes ( 55mm x 35mm x 5mm thick) you see on Mike Jensen's site, so maybe boxes would have to be made to accomodate that size. I suppose it would depend on the collector's preference. And again Happy New Year to everybody. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 1/3/2009 11:36:20 PM Mountain Standard Time, waltbranch at bellsouth.net writes: Hello Mike, Greetings from a foggy night in Georgia! I created a list a while back of meteorites that had struck human, animals and man-made objects (what I called HAMs - Michael Blood extended the term to "hammers"). I did it for fun and to demonstrate the relationship between falls and population density. It used to be on the IMCA website but I don't it there anymore. I included witnessed falls which I believed had a reliable and valid reference. If you want a copy of the table, I believe I still have a copy and can email it to you. **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From jbaxter112 at pol.net Sun Jan 4 20:31:05 2009 From: jbaxter112 at pol.net (jbaxter112 at pol.net) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 20:31:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meteorite-list] TS storage In-Reply-To: <55211.93767.qm@web37104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <55211.93767.qm@web37104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <39323.10.250.10.1.1231119065.squirrel@webmail.medscape.com> Hi Leigh Anne, As someone who is always itching to look at my specimens, I like keeping my thin sections in the little standard(~4 1/4 x 3 inch) Riker boxes. One can fit 3 standard slides parallel to the short side and another two parallel to the long side. They display nicely against the white cotton and you can see five all at once. I'm pretty paranoid about moisture given the high surface to weight ratio and keep the Riker mounts stored with dessicant in an airtight container when I'm not using them. I wonder what the list members' experience has been with both covered and uncovered thin sections? Cheers, Jim Baxter > > > I was wondering if anyone could tell me the typical way that thin > sections are collected. I know that they are on microscope slides, but > do people typically keep those slides in an old microscope slide box, or > drawer of some sort? Is there a protective type case that is typical of > thin section collectors? My boyfriend is a custom woodworker, and it > trying to figure out a way to build a storage case for these. Thanks in > advance, > Leigh Anne DelRay > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From epgrondine at yahoo.com Sun Jan 4 21:18:58 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 18:18:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] More on the Younger Dryas 'impact event' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <136419.16561.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi - Since metals predominate in Tunguska impactites, my guess is that Tunguska was caused by one of the last fragments of Encke, a piece of the core of a Encke component cometissimal. (I hope I haven't said anything too stupid here, but since my stroke I never know anymore - of course, this is long term memory, which was not so severely affected - The impactite researcher was Auduvesky(?) working with Italians (I can't remember from which university anymore.) I don't know if they ever did use an acid to isolate nanodiamonds - E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas --- On Sat, 1/3/09, tracy latimer wrote: > From: tracy latimer > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] More on the Younger Dryas 'impact event' > To: epgrondine at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, January 3, 2009, 6:00 PM > We have an accepted cosmic airburst event in recent history > -- has anyone found substantial numbers of nanodiamonds as a > result of Tunguska? If (compared to 'normal' > background quantities) more were found in that area and > could be linked to the airburst/impact, that would help > substantiate nanodiamond deposits as an indicator. For that > matter, what about comparing it to other confirmed > mega-impact areas? Do the impactite layers also contain > elevated levels of iridium? There are other markers that > could bolster this theory. > > Tracy Latimer > > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2009 15:27:52 -0800 > > From: epgrondine at yahoo.com > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More on the Younger > Dryas 'impact event' > > > > Hi - > > > > Dr. Morrison is being disingenious. If you have a > fragmented comet, and we've all seen them, then you end > up with multiple comet fragments hitting - and we've all > seen that as well. > > > > I wonder what year the impactite layer from Sandusky > with the blast killed mega-fauna will actually get reported > > > > E.P. Grondine > > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > >>Well balanced with an edge to the sympathetic. > >>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7808171.stm > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _________________________________________________________________ > It?s the same Hotmail?. If by ?same? you mean up to > 70% faster. > http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_122008 From edeckert at triad.rr.com Sun Jan 4 21:42:23 2009 From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (Ed Deckert) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:42:23 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] TS storage References: <55211.93767.qm@web37104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <39323.10.250.10.1.1231119065.squirrel@webmail.medscape.com> Message-ID: <066001c96edf$3d229a10$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain> I love using those little Riker boxes for displaying slices and small individuals. But I would be worried about a TS sliding out and hitting something and breaking when I took the lid off. Maybe it's just me, but I have problems sometimes with snug fitting lids not wanting to play nice when I take them off - resulting in a mini wrestling match. I have lost my grip on a box once or twice, and had one specimen get away from me (thankfully, no damage resulted.) Ed Deckert IMCA #8911 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 8:31 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] TS storage > Hi Leigh Anne, > > As someone who is always itching to look at my specimens, I like keeping > my thin sections in the little standard(~4 1/4 x 3 inch) Riker boxes. One > can fit 3 standard slides parallel to the short side and another two > parallel to the long side. They display nicely against the white cotton > and you can see five all at once. > > I'm pretty paranoid about moisture given the high surface to weight ratio > and keep the Riker mounts stored with dessicant in an airtight container > when I'm not using them. I wonder what the list members' experience has > been with both covered and uncovered thin sections? > > Cheers, > Jim Baxter > >> >> >> I was wondering if anyone could tell me the typical way that thin >> sections are collected. I know that they are on microscope slides, but >> do people typically keep those slides in an old microscope slide box, or >> drawer of some sort? Is there a protective type case that is typical of >> thin section collectors? My boyfriend is a custom woodworker, and it >> trying to figure out a way to build a storage case for these. Thanks in >> advance, >> Leigh Anne DelRay >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) > Database version: 5.11460 > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database version: 5.11460 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ From jbaxter112 at pol.net Sun Jan 4 21:55:52 2009 From: jbaxter112 at pol.net (jbaxter112 at pol.net) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 21:55:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [meteorite-list] TS storage In-Reply-To: <066001c96edf$3d229a10$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain> References: <55211.93767.qm@web37104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <39323.10.250.10.1.1231119065.squirrel@webmail.medscape.com> <066001c96edf$3d229a10$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain> Message-ID: <52884.10.250.10.1.1231124152.squirrel@webmail.medscape.com> That's a good point, Ed. They certainly do stick on occasion so it would always be wise to open them carefully on a table. I've always had success so far (knock on wood) when the top sticks by using the pin as mini-lever, wedging the point into the bottom side of the box, a millimeter or two above the stuck bottom edge and gently lifting. I agree, though, it can be a delicate maneuver and caution is wise if you adopt this storage method. Regards, Jim > I love using those little Riker boxes for displaying slices and small > individuals. But I would be worried about a TS sliding out and hitting > something and breaking when I took the lid off. Maybe it's just > me, but I have problems sometimes with snug fitting lids not wanting to > play nice when I take them off - resulting in a mini wrestling match. > I have lost my grip on a box once or twice, and had one specimen get > away from me (thankfully, no damage resulted.) > > Ed Deckert > IMCA #8911 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 8:31 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] TS storage > > >> Hi Leigh Anne, >> >> As someone who is always itching to look at my specimens, I like >> keeping my thin sections in the little standard(~4 1/4 x 3 inch) Riker >> boxes. One can fit 3 standard slides parallel to the short side and >> another two parallel to the long side. They display nicely against the >> white cotton and you can see five all at once. >> >> I'm pretty paranoid about moisture given the high surface to weight >> ratio and keep the Riker mounts stored with dessicant in an airtight >> container when I'm not using them. I wonder what the list members' >> experience has been with both covered and uncovered thin sections? >> >> Cheers, >> Jim Baxter >> >>> >>> >>> I was wondering if anyone could tell me the typical way that thin >>> sections are collected. I know that they are on microscope slides, >>> but do people typically keep those slides in an old microscope slide >>> box, or >>> drawer of some sort? Is there a protective type case that is typical >>> of >>> thin section collectors? My boyfriend is a custom woodworker, and it >>> trying to figure out a way to build a storage case for these. Thanks >>> in advance, >>> Leigh Anne DelRay >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> >> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) >> Database version: 5.11460 >> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ > > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) > Database version: 5.11460 > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jan 4 23:14:59 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 20:14:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD LARGE private collection meteorite sale. Message-ID: <153382.58954.qm@web110615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hello everyone, I have been asked to sell a private collection for a well-known collector. Most specimens were bought back in the 1990s, and are priced at near cost. I am doing this to assist a friend in need of funds. Shipping not included. Again, I am doing this as a favor. Here are the items for sale. THIN SECTIONS Broken Hill (L5). $80.00 Allende $75.00 Cole Creek $80.00 -------------------------------------------------- Tektites, other Meteorite Mineral Set 15 minerals (from Earth) which are common to meteorites. With paperwork. $25.00 Meteor Crater Study Kit from Nininger, entire set, in box, mint condition with booklets, Spheroids, Impactite. These are very rare! I have seen one or two per year only. $100.00 Rizalite tektite Philippines, 123.7 grams, perfect large specimen $275.00 --------------------------------------------------------------------- METEORITES North Branch, Kansas H5 90.8 gram large slice with fracture (glued) can be broken in half easily for two large pieces. $150.00 Camel Donga, Eucrite, nice complete stone, 15.1 grams $475.00 Vjatka, H4-5 from Russia, 17.7 gram partslice. $75.00 El Hammammi, 72.9 gram slice, with coating (used at schools to show children, coating used to prevent oxidation from handling). Very nice slice. $100.00 El Hammami 3.93 KILOGRAM cut fragment. Perfect for any large collection, or for slicing up for resale. $4000.00. A piece this large is not a common thing! Plainview, H5 from Texas, one of the first meteorite I ever sold! 34.5 gram partslice. $125.00 Huckitta (Pallasite) 32.1 gram slice, very nice typical piece of Huckitta. $100.00 Bondoc, Mesosiderite from Philippines. 9.7 gram slice with copy of DuPont label and other old label. Was cut from larger piece. $120.00 Sahara 97123, Enstatite (EH3) very nice endcut, 29.4 grams $900.00 This is another one that has completely vanished from the market. Sahara 97210, LL3, one of the most beautiful LL chondrule-full meteorites out there. This one sold for more than $100 gram back in 98, and also was bought up mostly by museums and scientists. 11 gram partslice, rectangular, perfect for making thin sections. $700.00 Millbillillie, Eucrite, 28.3 gram slice, with fracture, but not broken. Very nice. $350.00 Tatahouine, 1.3 gram fragment. $35.00 with Riker. Juancheng, 9.4 gram complete stone. $50.00 Juancheng, 102.3 gram complete stone, flawless! $450.00 Juancheng, 80.1 gram complete stone, $400.00 Sikhote-alin shrapnel, 1267 grams, $300.00 Sikhote-Alin, individual, very nice specimen with large groove, interesting, 628.5 grams. TOP QUALITY PIECE. $1000.00 Imilac, Pallasite, 25.7 gram partslice, GORGEOUS $600.00 Esquel, Pallasite, 50.3 grams, partslice, also very nice piece, great crystals. $1300.00 Holbrook, two pieces, 3.7 gram complete stone, and 7.3 gram slice. Sold as a pair in riker box. $140.00 Kapoeta, Howardite, RARE RARE RARE! 1.8 gram partslice, beautiful. $1500.00 At cost from 1998! Ibitira, RARE Eucrite, unbrecciated, 10.6 grams $2500.00 Jilin, Endcut, 21.9 grams. $100.00 Abbott, H3-6, another rare piece, I got this from UNM, and sold it back in 98, endcut, 29.90 grams. $300.00 Vaca muerta, three peices in Riker box, 7.6 grams total, $40.00 Gold basin, two slices in Riker box, 9.3 grams total. $30.00 Mount Egerton, Aubrite, RARE, three fragments in Riker box, 4.8 grams total, $90.00 Davy A, from Monnig Collection, cut fragment, 131.3 grams $200.00 Zagami, Shergottite, MARS ROCK, Partslice, 0.314 gram, $300.00 Peekskill, fragment in gel cap, 0.074 gram $50.00 Orguiel, micro in two pieces, in gel cap. $40.00 That is it. Michael Farmer From michael at spacerocksinc.com Mon Jan 5 08:22:58 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:22:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 5, 2009 Message-ID: <3790162.288441231161778199.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_5_2009.html From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Mon Jan 5 10:32:08 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:32:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Auctions Ending This Afternoon - Check Them Out! Message-ID: <343202.22687.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, I would like bring to your attention some great items now listed on eBay and due to end at auction early this afternoon. Most items are started out at just 99 cents and definitely worth a look. Click below to see some great auctions: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Three Generous Sized Lunar Meteorite Specimens Started at Just 99 Cents: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200293285168 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200293298649 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200293299284 Complete Mesosiderite Priced Below My Costs: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200293291916 And Many More Examples Worth Looking at Can Be Found at This Link: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck. Best Regards, ------------------------------------ Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 raremeteorites at yahoo.com From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 11:04:13 2009 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:04:13 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] A little off topic -- adhesive I don't know what it is called Message-ID: <468bf6050901050804l49a1806en6937ed421277b7b1@mail.gmail.com> Hi all I know this is sorta off topic but there is a glue that is used to glue items to their packaging and it seems to hold pretty good but all you have to do is pull the product off and the glue just lets go and does not stick permanently. You can also rub it right off the back side too, or right off the packaging. (It is much like rubber) It is like it holds the product it in place firmly but doesn't really stick to the product. I know I see it all the time but I just can't remember the last time I saw it used. Well I do plan to use it to hold meteorites in place so this is not 100% off topic. I hope this make enough sense that someone can point me in the right direction. Thanks -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From mexicodoug at aim.com Mon Jan 5 11:15:36 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:15:36 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A little off topic -- adhesive I don't know what it is called In-Reply-To: <468bf6050901050804l49a1806en6937ed421277b7b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <468bf6050901050804l49a1806en6937ed421277b7b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CB3D67F9F7A8C8-152C-2E@webmail-dx04.sysops.aol.com> Hi Mike, Sound liike the rubber cement we used in kindergarten. Doesn't penetrate so you can peel it off most applications. According to Wiki, it was marketed in England as Cow goo, but is generally as uncommon in Europe as it is ubiquitous in the USA, probably to prevent kids from sniffing it or due to flammability concerns in the Old World. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_cement Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Mike Miller To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:04 am Subject: [meteorite-list] A little off topic -- adhesive I don't know what it is called Hi all I know this is sorta off topic but there is a glue that is used to glue items to their packaging and it seems to hold pretty good but all you have to do is pull the product off and the glue just lets go and does not stick permanently. You can also rub it right off the back side too, or right off the packaging. (It is much like rubber) It is like it holds the product it in place firmly but doesn't really stick to the product. I know I see it all the time but I just can't remember the last time I saw it used. Well I do plan to use it to hold meteorites in place so this is not 100% off topic. I hope this make enough sense that someone can point me in the right direction. Thanks -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 11:33:39 2009 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:33:39 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] A little off topic -- adhesive I don't know what it is called In-Reply-To: <8CB3D67F9F7A8C8-152C-2E@webmail-dx04.sysops.aol.com> References: <468bf6050901050804l49a1806en6937ed421277b7b1@mail.gmail.com> <8CB3D67F9F7A8C8-152C-2E@webmail-dx04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <468bf6050901050833o77d5726btd7e0e7e1de4b2379@mail.gmail.com> Hi Doug I think it must be a type of rubber cement, my wife just reminded me of where I see it a lot. On those gift cards you buy at the super store.They are a plastic card (like a credit card) and they are glued to a paper backing with all the information on them. You just peel the card off and the glue stays on the card board. They also use it when your bank sends you a new bank card it is glued right to the paper with all your information. It is held firmly in place but the glue does not even rip the paper. On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:15 AM, wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Sound liike the rubber cement we used in kindergarten. Doesn't penetrate so > you can peel it off most applications. According to Wiki, it was marketed > in England as Cow goo, but is generally as uncommon in Europe as it is > ubiquitous in the USA, probably to prevent kids from sniffing it or due to > flammability concerns in the Old World. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_cement > > Best wishes, > Doug > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Miller > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Sent: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:04 am > Subject: [meteorite-list] A little off topic -- adhesive I don't know what > it is called > > > > Hi all I know this is sorta off topic but there is a glue that is used > to glue items to their packaging and it seems to hold pretty good but > all you have to do is pull the product off and the glue just lets go > and does not stick permanently. You can also rub it right off the back > side too, or right off the packaging. (It is much like rubber) It is > like it holds the product it in place firmly but doesn't really stick > to the product. I know I see it all the time but I just can't remember > the last time I saw it used. Well I do plan to use it to hold > meteorites in place so this is not 100% off topic. I hope this make > enough sense that someone can point me in the right direction. Thanks > > -- > Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 > www.meteoritefinder.com > 928-753-6825 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From mexicodoug at aim.com Mon Jan 5 11:42:55 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:42:55 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: A little off topic -- adhesive I don't know what it is called In-Reply-To: <8CB3D67F9F7A8C8-152C-2E@webmail-dx04.sysops.aol.com> References: <468bf6050901050804l49a1806en6937ed421277b7b1@mail.gmail.com> <8CB3D67F9F7A8C8-152C-2E@webmail-dx04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CB3D6BCAE5900D-152C-247@webmail-dx04.sysops.aol.com> Hi Mike, All, Sorry that email got away too soon, It is Cow Gum, not Cow Goo after reading my link to wiki, I wanted to add, that the solvent in rubber cement might not be the best thing to expose your meteorite to, but this stuff called mineral tack (only the white one is considered inert for mounting specimens). I haven't tried it but I'd try it if I had an opportunity. Why don't you give it a try and if possible let us know what you think, this looks like the good stuff for $ for 25g and $11 for 100g. To remove it make a tiny ball and blot off the pieces that remain behind in the lower parts of an irregular surface and it omes clean. It is a specialized putty. Item: 360120441273 Link (other better pries may be available, I didn't look too hard): http://cgi.ebay.com/Removable-White-Mineral-Specimen-Mounting-Tack-100g_W0QQitemZ360120441273QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116 Best wishes, and Happy New Year Doug -----Original Message----- From: mexicodoug at aim.com To: meteoritefinder at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:15 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A little off topic -- adhesive I don't know what it is called Hi Mike,? ? Sound liike the rubber cement we used in kindergarten. Doesn't penetrate so you can peel it off most applications. According to Wiki, it was marketed in England as Cow goo, but is generally as uncommon20in Europe as it is ubiquitous in the USA, probably to prevent kids from sniffing it or due to flammability concerns in the Old World.? ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_cement? ? Best wishes,? Doug? ? -----Original Message-----? From: Mike Miller ? To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com ? Sent: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:04 am? Subject: [meteorite-list] A little off topic -- adhesive I don't know what it is called? ? ? Hi all I know this is sorta off topic but there is a glue that is used? to glue items to their packaging and it seems to hold pretty good but? all you have to do is pull the product off and the glue just lets go? and does not stick permanently. You can also rub it right off the back? side too, or right off the packaging. (It is much like rubber) It is? like it holds the product it in place firmly but doesn't really stick? to the product. I know I see it all the time but I just can't remember? the last time I saw it used. Well I do plan to use it to hold? meteorites in place so this is not 100% off topic. I hope this make? enough sense that someone can point me in the right direction. Thanks? ? --? Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401? www.meteoritefinder.com? ? 928-753-6825? ______________________________________________? =0 Ahttp://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? From eric at meteoritewatch.com Mon Jan 5 12:54:45 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:54:45 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] A little off topic -- adhesive I don't know what it is called In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49624965.3020209@meteoritewatch.com> Mike, It's called Booger Glue! :) Or Glue Dots http://www.gluemachinery.com/booger-glue-fugitive-glue.shtml?gclid=CLaCv7_-95cCFQhJagod5QmcDg http://www.gluefast.com/packaging-bundling.html http://www.google.com/products?q=Glue+Dots&btnG=Search+Products&show=dd Hope it helps... ------------------ Eric Wichman Meteorites USA www.meteoritesusa.com Subject: [meteorite-list] A little off topic -- adhesive I don't know what it is called From: "Mike Miller" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:04:13 -0700 To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" Hi all I know this is sorta off topic but there is a glue that is used to glue items to their packaging and it seems to hold pretty good but all you have to do is pull the product off and the glue just lets go and does not stick permanently. You can also rub it right off the back side too, or right off the packaging. (It is much like rubber) It is like it holds the product it in place firmly but doesn't really stick to the product. I know I see it all the time but I just can't remember the last time I saw it used. Well I do plan to use it to hold meteorites in place so this is not 100% off topic. I hope this make enough sense that someone can point me in the right direction. Thanks -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From daistiho at hotmail.com Mon Jan 5 12:55:11 2009 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:55:11 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rusting pallasites Message-ID: Although most pallasites are very stable, there are a few (and I have samples!) that seem to start spalling off bits in short order; it doesn't help that I live less than a mile from the ocean. If you don't want to use the galvanic method of treatment for pallasites, is there a good way to treat them and stop them from rusting? Is the tried-and-true soak-in-lye-and-denatured-alcohol process appropriate, or will that just result in more problems? Best! Tracy Latimer _________________________________________________________________ Life on your PC is safer, easier, and more enjoyable with Windows Vista?. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/127032870/direct/01/ From gmhupe at htn.net Mon Jan 5 13:04:05 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:04:05 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA 5480 - AD Message-ID: <659AA442993A4AE6AEAFC54D2A314A05@Gregor> Dear List Members, I hope everyone had a happy and safe New Year's celebration! To start up the new year, I would like to give you an updated list of the remaining specimens of NWA 5480, the Incomparable new Olivine Diogenite. NWA 5480 Olivine Diogenite: Available Specimens (Only 11 pieces left): 670g End Cut http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00003.jpg 168.3g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00005.jpg 137g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00007.jpg 127g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00008.jpg 494g Complete Stone (Awesome "swirl" feature) http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00003.jpg 462g Complete Stone (Great display of the 'mixed' minerals) http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00005.jpg 269g Complete Stone http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00007.jpg 71.3g End Cut http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00010.jpg 16.1g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00015.jpg 14.4g cs (Sale Pending) http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00016.jpg 14g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00017.jpg cs - complete slice ps - part slice Pricing: Whole stones (Just 3 available) - $10.00/g Large end cuts (Only one left) - $12.00/g Large slices and small end cut (Only 3 left) - $16.00/g Small slices (2 available slices) - $20.00/g As soon as I sell the remaining two smaller slices, I may choose to cut one of the complete stones to make more slices available, unless the complete stones sell in the meantime. Thank you for considering these! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com Mon Jan 5 13:24:11 2009 From: bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com (mckinney trammell) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:24:11 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] NICE Allende on ebay Message-ID: <514688.45338.qm@web53210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> i have 2 nice samples on ebay: a millbillilie + allende @ ONE DOLLAR NO RESERVE. take a look: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZpaleoasis From mexicodoug at aim.com Mon Jan 5 14:16:13 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:16:13 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Re3: A little off topic -- adhesive I don't know what it is called In-Reply-To: <468bf6050901050833o77d5726btd7e0e7e1de4b2379@mail.gmail.com> References: <468bf6050901050804l49a1806en6937ed421277b7b1@mail.gmail.com><8CB3D67F9F7A8C8-152C-2E@webmail-dx04.sysops.aol.com> <468bf6050901050833o77d5726btd7e0e7e1de4b2379@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CB3D8135750A5C-534-6D3@WEBMAIL-MA08.sysops.aol.com> Hi again, Mike, Yeah, your wife is right about that stuff. I need a wife one of these days before I loose my memory and need to glue myself back together...I know you are really mechanically inclined and like fooling around in the shop, but personally I'd hold off putting any hot melt boogerglue (or "stable" hydrocarbon-based solvent rubber cements for that matter) on my meteorites. Just a feeling. Companies like HENKEL (mfgr of Mineral Tack) in Germany have done a lot of work on this stuff, and 9.9 out of 10 mineral collectors recommend their stuff. The real thing to consider is long term stability and whether it "impregnates" your meteorites with any nasties, initially, and especially when it gets old and little bad chemical reactions start happening inside discoloring and exuding other crap. Meteorites are porous regarding the impregnating, don't think the progeny of meteorites and boogers is something the world is ready for yet... If you don't want to buy grams of the Mineral Tack and prefer something on the order of a bulk specialty glue, visit the MIKON Mineralien-Kontor GmbH room in the Executive Inn Suites when you get a chance in Tucson, they?ll be in room 164. From the InnSuites, just go north towars La Fuente restaurant. Before you get there the motel will be the third block past Speedway on the right. They sell the white mineral tack in bulk. It is designed for20long term stability and minimumal orleaching out and the best part is that it stays pliable for years. That is good, because unlike the bank card snot, if you want to readjust the position, you always can. Another story is the bank card hot melt application crap, IMO whoever started that should be shot and credit and debit cards should be attached with two-component epoxy to protect the world from itself and save a lot of butts next time around. If you can't see it at the Tucson show, here is the web link. If it comes out in German, just look for the British flag somewhere on the page and click on it. You get tons of this mineral tack putty (clay) for a good price. So yousee the US dealers are asking for a 1000% markup or something like that as far as I can see. Once you get an account(hmmm, wonder why they need for your birthdate, but they are a reputable company that has been around for a long time supplying the professional mineral crowd, still, no excuse for that), you might figure out how to get a 25%-off list discount, too. If any of this this is convincing enough, you could email them in advance and probably reserve some to pick up in Tucson. Here are the products and contact info for bulk purchases. http://www.mikon-online.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/44_38?osCsid=2 Best wishes and HNY, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Mike Miller To: mexicodoug at aim.com Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:33 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A little off topic -- adhesive I don't know what it is called Hi Doug I think it must be a type of rubber cement, my wife just reminded me of where I see it a lot. On those gift cards you buy at the super store.They are a plastic card (like a credit card) and they are glued to a paper backing with all the information on them. You just peel the card off and the glue stays on the card board. They also use it when your bank sends you a new bank card it is glued right to the paper with all your information. It is held firmly in place but the glue does not even rip the paper. On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:15 AM, wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Sound liike the rubber cement we used in kindergarten. Doesn't penetrate so > you can peel it off most applications. According to Wiki, it was marketed > in England as Cow goo, but is generally as uncommon in Europe as it is > ubiquitous in the USA, probably to prevent kids from sniffing it or due to > flammability concerns in the Old World. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_cement > > Best wishes, > Doug > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Miller > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Sent: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 1 0:04 am > Subject: [meteorite-list] A little off topic -- adhesive I don't know what > it is called > > > > Hi all I know this is sorta off topic but there is a glue that is used > to glue items to their packaging and it seems to hold pretty good but > all you have to do is pull the product off and the glue just lets go > and does not stick permanently. You can also rub it right off the back > side too, or right off the packaging. (It is much like rubber) It is > like it holds the product it in place firmly but doesn't really stick > to the product. I know I see it all the time but I just can't remember > the last time I saw it used. Well I do plan to use it to hold > meteorites in place so this is not 100% off topic. I hope this make > enough sense that someone can point me in the right direction. Thanks > > -- > Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 > www.meteoritefinder.com > 928-753-6825 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Mon Jan 5 14:19:50 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 05 Jan 2009 19:19:50 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?Greg_Hup=E9=27s_NWA_5480?= Message-ID: a.k.a.: "the Incomparable new Olivine Diogenite" is *extremely* d i f f i c u l t to photograph and none of the pictures reveals its true crystalline beauty! It took me several attempts with illumination from different sides and varying exposure times before I could "catch" one (!) shot that does this diogenite a little justice! Try to imagine that those pale-brown areas are the orthopyroxene-rich zones and "in person" they are a shining green like the hypersthene crystals in Johnstown! The dark brown areas are olivines and their true nature is a dark, partly translucent amber color like the olivine crystals in some pallasites! Diogenitically Yours, Bernd From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au Mon Jan 5 14:45:55 2009 From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 05:45:55 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] QMIG update Message-ID: Listoids Small update to http://www.qmig.net with a photograph of Arrabury (linked from the Queensland Falls webpage) I can't seem to update qmig.org so I'll wrestle with the html code today Ill upload another photograph of the QMIG collection Arrabury 5.06 gram crusted specimen today and I have to remind myself to snaffle another small piece suitable for thin-sectioning This is the sort of photograph suitable for database collections such as the Encyclopedia of Meteorites... This was an interesting accession that took years of planning and adroit manouvre... the sole remaining specimen I could locate resided in Museum A which is governed by State legislation that excludes it from trading meteorites with private collectors !!!! yet another subtle example of repressive legislation... the solution was to get Museum B to trade with Museum A and snaffle the specimens from Museum B I hope to finalise some more Museum trades this year but most Listoids will understand that this is sometimes NOT easy and tis far better that you have something they really really want I'm edging closer to having specimens of most of the Queensland meteorites - if any Listoids can help with Maroo or Whitula Creek or other un-named Queensland specimens can they please contact me off-list Cheers From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 5 15:38:46 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:38:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] rocks from space Message-ID: <580146.29221.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.I do not know what cave I have been living under,but I just got my first copy of o richard norton's "ROCKS FROM SPACE".What a great book!This is a second edition,so I see it has out for a while.I have been collecting for 10 years,so I am no rookie,but I know after I read this I will add to my knowledge of this great hobby.I will bring with me for him to sign.Again what a great book! ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Mon Jan 5 16:04:31 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 05 Jan 2009 21:04:31 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] O.R. Norton's RFS (I + II) Message-ID: Steve #2 wrote: "ROCKS FROM SPACE. What a great book!" Absolutely true! There are three copies on my shelf - one of them signed by Richard and Dorothy (No, it's not or sale!) "after I read this I will add to my knowledge of this great hobby." Again true as true can be! If a newbie or a "rookie" jumps into this great hobby and starts with the "wrong" books, i.e. books and articles that are far beyond his/her grasp, he or she will soon lose interest in this hobby. I would never advise a newbie to buy and read: HUTCHISON R. (2004) Meteorites: A Petrologic, Chemical, and Isotopic Synthesis Before you can read (and understand) such a book, O.R. Norton's RFS and O.R. Norton's Encyclopedia of Meteorites are a *m u s t read* !!! Best from snowy Southern Germany, Bernd From mikewren at gilanet.com Mon Jan 5 16:20:59 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:20:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] rocks from space In-Reply-To: <580146.29221.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <580146.29221.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3FE8D4CA-90F5-494D-86E7-5D05996EE6B7@gilanet.com> YEAH!!!!!!! Finally Steve, I think I told you several times to get this book, about 9 years ago....it is a must read! Also, most people live in caves, not under them, but that might explain some things... Happy New Years and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On Jan 5, 2009, at 1:38 PM, steve arnold wrote: > Hi list.I do not know what cave I have been living under,but I just > got my first copy of o richard norton's "ROCKS FROM SPACE".What a > great book!This is a second edition,so I see it has out for a > while.I have been collecting for 10 years,so I am no rookie,but I > know after I read this I will add to my knowledge of this great > hobby.I will bring with me for him to sign.Again what a great book! > > Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! > http://chicagometeorites.net/ > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From saharagems at yahoo.com Mon Jan 5 16:23:29 2009 From: saharagems at yahoo.com (Stalder Thomas) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:23:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Sale - Aluminium scale cubes on Ebay Message-ID: <72063.16350.qm@web44905.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear list members, Why not start the new year with some new handmade scale cubes ? I'm offering 3 pcs on Ebay, Buy it Now - Ending in about 3 days. Pls take a look if interested: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=220338105751 Best regards from frozen Switzerland (-12 Celsius tonight) Thomas From gsac at gmx.net Mon Jan 5 17:10:56 2009 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 23:10:56 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] O.R. Norton's RFS (I + II) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090105221056.82290@gmx.net> > I would never advise a newbie to buy and read: > HUTCHISON R. (2004) Meteorites: A Petrologic, Chemical, and Isotopic > Synthesis True, Bernd, but this book that you mentioned here is one of the best ones on the other end of the line, so to say. Just to add a positive touch to the "flavor" of the first line, which, in turn, should emphasize: *this* is a wonderful book for the advanced collector! I am quite sure, you will agree on this... :-) Best, Alex Berlin/Germany From fcressy at prodigy.net Mon Jan 5 19:08:36 2009 From: fcressy at prodigy.net (Frank Cressy) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:08:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA 5480 - AD In-Reply-To: <659AA442993A4AE6AEAFC54D2A314A05@Gregor> Message-ID: <778101.46579.qm@web80207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Greg, Glad I've received my slice ;-) I'll also echo Bernd's enthusiam for this meteorite...SPECTACULAR! Any chance you'd consider having thin sections made? I'm sure there are enough list members that would committ to purchasing one if they were available. All the best, Frank --- On Mon, 1/5/09, Greg Hupe wrote: > From: Greg Hupe > Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA 5480 - AD > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 10:04 AM > Dear List Members, > > I hope everyone had a happy and safe New Year's > celebration! To start up the > new year, I would like to give you an updated list of the > remaining > specimens of NWA 5480, the Incomparable new Olivine > Diogenite. > > NWA 5480 Olivine Diogenite: > Available Specimens (Only 11 pieces left): > > 670g End Cut > http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00003.jpg > 168.3g cs > http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00005.jpg > 137g cs > http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00007.jpg > 127g cs > http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00008.jpg > 494g Complete Stone (Awesome "swirl" feature) > http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00003.jpg > 462g Complete Stone (Great display of the 'mixed' > minerals) > http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00005.jpg > 269g Complete Stone > http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00007.jpg > 71.3g End Cut > http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00010.jpg > 16.1g cs > http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00015.jpg > 14.4g cs (Sale Pending) > http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00016.jpg > 14g cs > http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00017.jpg > cs - complete slice > ps - part slice > > Pricing: > Whole stones (Just 3 available) - $10.00/g > Large end cuts (Only one left) - $12.00/g > Large slices and small end cut (Only 3 left) - $16.00/g > Small slices (2 available slices) - $20.00/g > > As soon as I sell the remaining two smaller slices, I may > choose to cut one > of the complete stones to make more slices available, > unless the complete > stones sell in the meantime. > > Thank you for considering these! > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From aeromadness at yahoo.com Mon Jan 5 20:33:13 2009 From: aeromadness at yahoo.com (Harry) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:33:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] O.R. Norton's RFS (I + II) Message-ID: <108214.98910.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Couldn't be more true! Rocks from Space is great and so is Nortons other book "A Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites." I recommend these books to anyone interested in meteorites at any level. From, Harry Mc On Jan 5, 2009, at 1:04 PM, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: Steve #2 wrote: "ROCKS FROM SPACE. What a great book!" Absolutely true! There are three copies on my shelf - one of them signed by Richard and Dorothy (No, it's not or sale!) "after I read this I will add to my knowledge of this great hobby." Again true as true can be! If a newbie or a "rookie" jumps into this great hobby and starts with the "wrong" books, i.e. books and articles that are far beyond his/her grasp, he or she will soon lose interest in this hobby. I would never advise a newbie to buy and read: HUTCHISON R. (2004) Meteorites: A Petrologic, Chemical, and Isotopic Synthesis Before you can read (and understand) such a book, O.R. Norton's RFS and O.R. Norton's Encyclopedia of Meteorites are a *m u s t read* !!! Best from snowy Southern Germany, Bernd ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jan 5 20:37:07 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:37:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Dead Stars Tell Story of Planet Birth (Spitzer) Message-ID: <200901060137.RAA01086@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-001 Dead Stars Tell Story of Planet Birth Jet Propulsion Laboratory January 05, 2009 PASADENA, Calif. -- Astronomers have turned to an unexpected place to study the evolution of planets -- dead stars. Observations made with NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope reveal six dead "white dwarf" stars littered with the remains of shredded asteroids. This might sound pretty bleak, but it turns out the chewed-up asteroids are teaching astronomers about the building materials of planets around other stars. So far, the results suggest that the same materials that make up Earth and our solar system's other rocky bodies could be common in the universe. If the materials are common, then rocky planets could be, too. "If you ground up our asteroids and rocky planets, you would get the same type of dust we are seeing in these star systems," said Michael Jura of the University of California, Los Angeles, who presented the results today at the American Astronomical Society meeting in Long Beach, Calif. "This tells us that the stars have asteroids like ours -- and therefore could also have rocky planets." Jura is the lead author of a paper on the findings accepted for publication in the Astronomical Journal. Asteroids and planets form out of dusty material that swirls around young stars. The dust sticks together, forming clumps and eventually full-grown planets. Asteroids are the leftover debris. When a star like our sun nears the end of its life, it puffs up into a red giant that consumes its innermost planets, while jostling the orbits of remaining asteroids and outer planets. As the star continues to die, it blows off its outer layers and shrinks down into a skeleton of its former self -- a white dwarf. Sometimes, a jostled asteroid wanders too close to a white dwarf and meets its demise -- the gravity of the white dwarf shreds the asteroid to pieces. A similar thing happened to Comet Shoemaker Levy 9 when Jupiter's gravity tore it up, before the comet ultimately smashed into the planet in 1994. Spitzer observed shredded asteroid pieces around white dwarfs with its infrared spectrograph, an instrument that breaks light apart into a rainbow of wavelengths, revealing imprints of chemicals. Previously, Spitzer analyzed the asteroid dust around two so-called polluted white dwarfs; the new observations bring the total to eight. "Now, we've got a bigger sample of these polluted white dwarfs, so we know these types of events are not extremely rare," said Jura. In all eight systems observed, Spitzer found that the dust contains a glassy silicate mineral similar to olivine and commonly found on Earth. "This is one clue that the rocky material around these stars has evolved very much like our own," said Jura. The Spitzer data also suggest there is no carbon in the rocky debris -- again like the asteroids and rocky planets in our solar system, which have relatively little carbon. A single asteroid is thought to have broken apart within the last million years or so in each of the eight white-dwarf systems. The biggest of the bunch was once about 200 kilometers (124 miles) in diameter, a bit larger than Los Angeles County. Jura says the real power of observing these white dwarf systems is still to come. When an asteroid "bites the dust" around a dead star, it breaks into very tiny pieces. Asteroid dust around living stars, by contrast, is made of larger particles. By continuing to use spectrographs to analyze the visible light from this fine dust, astronomers will be able to see exquisite details -- including information about what elements are present and in what abundance. This will reveal much more about how other star systems sort and process their planetary materials. "It's as if the white dwarfs separate the dust apart for us," said Jura. Other authors are Ben Zuckerman at the University of California, Los Angeles, and Jay Farihi at Leicester University, England. This research was funded by NASA and the National Science Foundation. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., manages the Spitzer Space Telescope mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Science operations are conducted at the Spitzer Science Center at the California Institute of Technology, also in Pasadena. Caltech manages JPL for NASA. For more information about Spitzer, visit http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/spitzer and http://www.nasa.gov/spitzer . Media contact: Whitney Clavin 818-354-4673 Jet Propulsion Laboratory whitney.clavin at jpl.nasa.gov 2009-001 From michael at spacerocksinc.com Mon Jan 5 21:39:36 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 18:39:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 4, 2009 Message-ID: <31063469.381991231209576244.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> Dear list members, Here's yesterdays RSPOD. Sorry for the delay! http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_4_2009.html ________________ Michael Johnson http://www.spacerocksinc.com From Impactika at aol.com Mon Jan 5 23:22:52 2009 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 23:22:52 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] IMPACTIKA's Tenth AnnEversary - AD Message-ID: Hello Everybody, Yes, that's right, Impactika is now 10 years old. Hard to believe. And to celebrate that milestone, I decided to make my website easier to navigate so I reworked the Catalog page to combine it with the Meteorite page, so now everything is conveniently in one (long) list with a lot of links and pictures. All the Exceptional Pieces are there too, but easily visible. And I have more rare, historical, exceptional pieces than ever; things like Ibitira, Moss with crust, 2 Murchison (one with crust), Tres Castillos, Los Angeles 001 and 002, Cape York, La Primitiva, Palca de Aparzo, ..... and a huge slice of Huizopa (thanks to TCU), and many more. Just take a look at _www.IMPACTIKA.com_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com) or directly at: _http://www.impactika.com/Metlist.htm_ (http://www.impactika.com/Metlist.htm) And the Thin-Sections page has also been completely updated, with a lot of new pieces and pictures. You can find it at: http://www.impactika.com/TSlist.htm Thank you very much for all your business during all those Ten Years. Obviously I wouldn't be here without all of you. Anne M. Black http://www.impactika.com/ IMPACTIKA at aol.com Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. http://www.imca.cc/ **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From darryl at dof3.com Tue Jan 6 03:07:08 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 03:07:08 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel / Greetings In-Reply-To: <343202.22687.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <343202.22687.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <042A54FD-6EEF-4069-90C8-6C512B89CE6B@dof3.com> Hi, Can someone please confirm the five most nickel-rich meteorites by percentage of weight? Thanks so much. Belatedly wishing everyone a healthy and happy new year---and may the joys of the holiday season be with us all for many, many months to come. d. From gmhupe at htn.net Tue Jan 6 07:30:01 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:30:01 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA 5480 - AD References: <778101.46579.qm@web80207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Frank and List, Frank wrote, "I'll also echo Bernd's enthusiasm for this meteorite (NWA 5480)...SPECTACULAR! Any chance you'd consider having thin sections made? I'm sure there are enough list members that would commit to purchasing one if they were available." In the past I have sent different material out to make thin sections, I don't have the time to try and fill all of the niches. Maybe Anne Black or someone else who have the lead on the best thin section makers would like to pursue it? "Thank You" to all who have purchased some of the "Incomparable Olivine Diogenite", NWA 5480! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Cressy" To: ; "Greg Hupe" Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA 5480 - AD > Hello Greg, > > Glad I've received my slice ;-) > > I'll also echo Bernd's enthusiam for this meteorite...SPECTACULAR! > > Any chance you'd consider having thin sections made? I'm sure there are > enough list members that would committ to purchasing one if they were > available. > > All the best, > Frank > > > --- On Mon, 1/5/09, Greg Hupe wrote: > >> From: Greg Hupe >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA 5480 - AD >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 10:04 AM >> Dear List Members, >> >> I hope everyone had a happy and safe New Year's >> celebration! To start up the >> new year, I would like to give you an updated list of the >> remaining >> specimens of NWA 5480, the Incomparable new Olivine >> Diogenite. >> >> NWA 5480 Olivine Diogenite: >> Available Specimens (Only 11 pieces left): >> >> 670g End Cut >> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00003.jpg >> 168.3g cs >> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00005.jpg >> 137g cs >> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00007.jpg >> 127g cs >> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00008.jpg >> 494g Complete Stone (Awesome "swirl" feature) >> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00003.jpg >> 462g Complete Stone (Great display of the 'mixed' >> minerals) >> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00005.jpg >> 269g Complete Stone >> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00007.jpg >> 71.3g End Cut >> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00010.jpg >> 16.1g cs >> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00015.jpg >> 14.4g cs (Sale Pending) >> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00016.jpg >> 14g cs >> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00017.jpg >> cs - complete slice >> ps - part slice >> >> Pricing: >> Whole stones (Just 3 available) - $10.00/g >> Large end cuts (Only one left) - $12.00/g >> Large slices and small end cut (Only 3 left) - $16.00/g >> Small slices (2 available slices) - $20.00/g >> >> As soon as I sell the remaining two smaller slices, I may >> choose to cut one >> of the complete stones to make more slices available, >> unless the complete >> stones sell in the meantime. >> >> Thank you for considering these! >> >> Best regards, >> Greg >> >> ==================== >> Greg Hupe >> The Hupe Collection >> NaturesVault (eBay) >> gmhupe at htn.net >> www.LunarRock.com >> IMCA 3163 >> ==================== >> Click here for my current eBay auctions: >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jan 6 08:13:34 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 06 Jan 2009 13:13:34 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel / Greetings Message-ID: Darryl inquires: "Can someone please confirm the five most nickel-rich meteorites by percentage of weight?" Hello Darryl and List, Not sure if this is what you are looking for: Oktibbeha County - IAB-ungrouped - 60.1% Ni Lafayette (iron) - doubtful - 59.4% Ni Dermbach - ATAX - 42.1% Ni Santa Catharina - IAB-ung - 33.8% Ni Tishomingo - Iron-ung - 32.5% Ni Best from Germany, Bern From mpg444 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 08:49:57 2009 From: mpg444 at yahoo.com (Mike Groetz) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 05:49:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball seen over Calgary Message-ID: <971411.50381.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html?id=1144834 Fireball seen over Calgary Canwest News Service Published: Monday, January 05, 2009 CALGARY -- A fireball reportedly lit up the early morning sky south of Calgary early Monday. The Canadian Fireball Reporting Centre received about a dozen reports of a meteorite falling to earth at about 5:45 a.m. but the hazy conditions have made it difficult to verify. "I don't know how anyone saw it. There were a lot of clouds up there," said the University of Calgary's meteorite expert, Alan Hildebrand. "But it's possible there was a hole in the clouds that allowed them to see it. It's happened before." It could've been a meteorite or possibly falling debris from a meteor shower, said Hildebrand. "I haven't spoken to any witnesses myself yet," he said. "I'm not even sure exactly where it was." On Nov. 20, a bright flash lit up the sky, visible from Alberta to Manitoba. So far, researchers have found more than 100 pieces of that meteorite, strewn over a 21-square-kilometre area of Saskatchewan just east of the Alberta border. Scientists were able to narrow down an impact zone because the trajectory of the fireball was caught on multiple security cameras. Hildebrand has estimated that over 10,000 pieces may have fallen to the ground that night. Hildebrand said that Canadian Fireball Reporting Centre receives about 70 reports of sightings each year. Calgary Herald Canwest News Service Published: Monday, January 05, 2009 CALGARY -- A fireball reportedly lit up the early morning sky south of Calgary early Monday. The Canadian Fireball Reporting Centre received about a dozen reports of a meteorite falling to earth at about 5:45 a.m. but the hazy conditions have made it difficult to verify. "I don't know how anyone saw it. There were a lot of clouds up there," said the University of Calgary's meteorite expert, Alan Hildebrand. "But it's possible there was a hole in the clouds that allowed them to see it. It's happened before." It could've been a meteorite or possibly falling debris from a meteor shower, said Hildebrand. "I haven't spoken to any witnesses myself yet," he said. "I'm not even sure exactly where it was." On Nov. 20, a bright flash lit up the sky, visible from Alberta to Manitoba. So far, researchers have found more than 100 pieces of that meteorite, strewn over a 21-square-kilometre area of Saskatchewan just east of the Alberta border. Scientists were able to narrow down an impact zone because the trajectory of the fireball was caught on multiple security cameras. Hildebrand has estimated that over 10,000 pieces may have fallen to the ground that night. Hildebrand said that Canadian Fireball Reporting Centre receives about 70 reports of sightings each year. Calgary Herald From darryl at dof3.com Tue Jan 6 08:58:47 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:58:47 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel / Greetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5297E4D1-669E-40FB-8E2E-91E5793DF440@dof3.com> It is and thank you so very much, Bernd. All best / Darryl On Jan 6, 2009, at 8:13 AM, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > Darryl inquires: > > "Can someone please confirm the five most > nickel-rich meteorites by percentage of weight?" > > > Hello Darryl and List, > > Not sure if this is what you are looking for: > > Oktibbeha County - IAB-ungrouped - 60.1% Ni > Lafayette (iron) - doubtful - 59.4% Ni > Dermbach - ATAX - 42.1% Ni > Santa Catharina - IAB-ung - 33.8% Ni > Tishomingo - Iron-ung - 32.5% Ni > > Best from Germany, > > Bern > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From darryl at dof3.com Tue Jan 6 10:33:38 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:33:38 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA 5480 - AD In-Reply-To: References: <778101.46579.qm@web80207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45BF3B18-767F-4AC3-9E4C-1C14FA41E9B8@dof3.com> It's so great (and so unusual) when a meteorite is sufficiently visually engaging that folks on the list post their enthusiasm for the same. Reminds me of a recent story. This fellow called to let me know he had a meteorite for sale. When I asked him to describe it he said, "It's got almost all the colors of the rainbow and it's kind of iridescent," to which I replied, "Sir, with all respect, meteorites don't look like that." Without skipping a beat, "And that's exactly why mine is worth so much!" ;-) Seems like we should all obtain a sample of 5480. Best/ d On Jan 6, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Greg Hupe wrote: > Hi Frank and List, > > Frank wrote, > "I'll also echo Bernd's enthusiasm for this meteorite (NWA > 5480)...SPECTACULAR! > Any chance you'd consider having thin sections made? I'm sure there > are enough list members that would commit to purchasing one if they > were available." > > In the past I have sent different material out to make thin > sections, I don't have the time to try and fill all of the niches. > Maybe Anne Black or someone else who have the lead on the best thin > section makers would like to pursue it? > > "Thank You" to all who have purchased some of the "Incomparable > Olivine Diogenite", NWA 5480! > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Cressy" > > To: ; "Greg Hupe" > > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:08 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA > 5480 - AD > > >> Hello Greg, >> >> Glad I've received my slice ;-) >> >> I'll also echo Bernd's enthusiam for this meteorite...SPECTACULAR! >> >> Any chance you'd consider having thin sections made? I'm sure >> there are enough list members that would committ to purchasing one >> if they were available. >> >> All the best, >> Frank >> >> >> --- On Mon, 1/5/09, Greg Hupe wrote: >> >>> From: Greg Hupe >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA >>> 5480 - AD >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 10:04 AM >>> Dear List Members, >>> >>> I hope everyone had a happy and safe New Year's >>> celebration! To start up the >>> new year, I would like to give you an updated list of the >>> remaining >>> specimens of NWA 5480, the Incomparable new Olivine >>> Diogenite. >>> >>> NWA 5480 Olivine Diogenite: >>> Available Specimens (Only 11 pieces left): >>> >>> 670g End Cut >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00003.jpg >>> 168.3g cs >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00005.jpg >>> 137g cs >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00007.jpg >>> 127g cs >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00008.jpg >>> 494g Complete Stone (Awesome "swirl" feature) >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00003.jpg >>> 462g Complete Stone (Great display of the 'mixed' >>> minerals) >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00005.jpg >>> 269g Complete Stone >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00007.jpg >>> 71.3g End Cut >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00010.jpg >>> 16.1g cs >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00015.jpg >>> 14.4g cs (Sale Pending) >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00016.jpg >>> 14g cs >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00017.jpg >>> cs - complete slice >>> ps - part slice >>> >>> Pricing: >>> Whole stones (Just 3 available) - $10.00/g >>> Large end cuts (Only one left) - $12.00/g >>> Large slices and small end cut (Only 3 left) - $16.00/g >>> Small slices (2 available slices) - $20.00/g >>> >>> As soon as I sell the remaining two smaller slices, I may >>> choose to cut one >>> of the complete stones to make more slices available, >>> unless the complete >>> stones sell in the meantime. >>> >>> Thank you for considering these! >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Greg >>> >>> ==================== >>> Greg Hupe >>> The Hupe Collection >>> NaturesVault (eBay) >>> gmhupe at htn.net >>> www.LunarRock.com >>> IMCA 3163 >>> ==================== >>> Click here for my current eBay auctions: >>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael at spacerocksinc.com Tue Jan 6 10:48:37 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:48:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 6, 2009 Message-ID: <1305436.426761231256917625.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_6_2009.html From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Tue Jan 6 13:16:19 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:16:19 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA 5480 - AD Message-ID: Oh, I'll give you the colors of the rainbow! Greg has arranged for me to examine the thin section used to classify this OD. I'll post when the images are up. Speaking of Greg, he has provided me with the description (of a pairing NWA 4587) for this months Meteorite Times Micro Vision on NWA 4901 the anomalous achondrite also paired with NWA 011. Real cool stuff! there are structures in it that I have never seen before. Paul should have this month's issue up in a couple days. All my past Micro Vision articles have been incorporated into my Micrograph Gallery menu. This makes it much easier to find what you are looking for. Tom In a message dated 1/6/2009 8:34:06 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, darryl at dof3.com writes: It's so great (and so unusual) when a meteorite is sufficiently visually engaging that folks on the list post their enthusiasm for the same. Reminds me of a recent story. This fellow called to let me know he had a meteorite for sale. When I asked him to describe it he said, "It's got almost all the colors of the rainbow and it's kind of iridescent," to which I replied, "Sir, with all respect, meteorites don't look like that." Without skipping a beat, "And that's exactly why mine is worth so much!" ;-) Seems like we should all obtain a sample of 5480. Best/ d On Jan 6, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Greg Hupe wrote: > Hi Frank and List, > > Frank wrote, > "I'll also echo Bernd's enthusiasm for this meteorite (NWA > 5480)...SPECTACULAR! > Any chance you'd consider having thin sections made? I'm sure there > are enough list members that would commit to purchasing one if they > were available." > > In the past I have sent different material out to make thin > sections, I don't have the time to try and fill all of the niches. > Maybe Anne Black or someone else who have the lead on the best thin > section makers would like to pursue it? > > "Thank You" to all who have purchased some of the "Incomparable > Olivine Diogenite", NWA 5480! > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Cressy" > > To: ; "Greg Hupe" > > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:08 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA > 5480 - AD > > >> Hello Greg, >> >> Glad I've received my slice ;-) >> >> I'll also echo Bernd's enthusiam for this meteorite...SPECTACULAR! >> >> Any chance you'd consider having thin sections made? I'm sure >> there are enough list members that would committ to purchasing one >> if they were available. >> >> All the best, >> Frank >> >> >> --- On Mon, 1/5/09, Greg Hupe wrote: >> >>> From: Greg Hupe >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA >>> 5480 - AD >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 10:04 AM >>> Dear List Members, >>> >>> I hope everyone had a happy and safe New Year's >>> celebration! To start up the >>> new year, I would like to give you an updated list of the >>> remaining >>> specimens of NWA 5480, the Incomparable new Olivine >>> Diogenite. >>> >>> NWA 5480 Olivine Diogenite: >>> Available Specimens (Only 11 pieces left): >>> >>> 670g End Cut >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00003.jpg >>> 168.3g cs >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00005.jpg >>> 137g cs >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00007.jpg >>> 127g cs >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00008.jpg >>> 494g Complete Stone (Awesome "swirl" feature) >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00003.jpg >>> 462g Complete Stone (Great display of the 'mixed' >>> minerals) >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00005.jpg >>> 269g Complete Stone >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00007.jpg >>> 71.3g End Cut >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00010.jpg >>> 16.1g cs >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00015.jpg >>> 14.4g cs (Sale Pending) >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00016.jpg >>> 14g cs >>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00017.jpg >>> cs - complete slice >>> ps - part slice >>> >>> Pricing: >>> Whole stones (Just 3 available) - $10.00/g >>> Large end cuts (Only one left) - $12.00/g >>> Large slices and small end cut (Only 3 left) - $16.00/g >>> Small slices (2 available slices) - $20.00/g >>> >>> As soon as I sell the remaining two smaller slices, I may >>> choose to cut one >>> of the complete stones to make more slices available, >>> unless the complete >>> stones sell in the meantime. >>> >>> Thank you for considering these! >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Greg >>> >>> ==================== >>> Greg Hupe >>> The Hupe Collection >>> NaturesVault (eBay) >>> gmhupe at htn.net >>> www.LunarRock.com >>> IMCA 3163 >>> ==================== >>> Click here for my current eBay auctions: >>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From darryl at dof3.com Tue Jan 6 13:34:22 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:34:22 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA 5480 - AD In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <661F5A80-0F0F-4F09-B27D-F638AA4E3B68@dof3.com> Looking forward! And I know you will. ;-) On Jan 6, 2009, at 1:16 PM, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote: > Oh, I'll give you the colors of the rainbow! Greg has arranged > for me to > examine the thin section used to classify this OD. I'll post when > the images > are up. > > Speaking of Greg, he has provided me with the description (of a > pairing NWA > 4587) for this months Meteorite Times Micro Vision on NWA 4901 the > anomalous > achondrite also paired with NWA 011. Real cool stuff! there are > structures > in it that I have never seen before. > > Paul should have this month's issue up in a couple days. > > All my past Micro Vision articles have been incorporated into my > Micrograph > Gallery menu. This makes it much easier to find what you are > looking for. > > Tom > > In a message dated 1/6/2009 8:34:06 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, > darryl at dof3.com writes: > > > It's so great (and so unusual) when a meteorite is sufficiently > visually engaging that folks on the list post their enthusiasm for > the > same. > > Reminds me of a recent story. This fellow called to let me know he > had a meteorite for sale. When I asked him to describe it he said, > "It's got almost all the colors of the rainbow and it's kind of > iridescent," to which I replied, "Sir, with all respect, meteorites > don't look like that." Without skipping a beat, "And that's exactly > why mine is worth so much!" ;-) > > Seems like we should all obtain a sample of 5480. > > Best/ d > > > > > On Jan 6, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Greg Hupe wrote: > >> Hi Frank and List, >> >> Frank wrote, >> "I'll also echo Bernd's enthusiasm for this meteorite (NWA >> 5480)...SPECTACULAR! >> Any chance you'd consider having thin sections made? I'm sure there >> are enough list members that would commit to purchasing one if they >> were available." >> >> In the past I have sent different material out to make thin >> sections, I don't have the time to try and fill all of the niches. >> Maybe Anne Black or someone else who have the lead on the best thin >> section makers would like to pursue it? >> >> "Thank You" to all who have purchased some of the "Incomparable >> Olivine Diogenite", NWA 5480! >> >> Best regards, >> Greg >> >> ==================== >> Greg Hupe >> The Hupe Collection >> NaturesVault (eBay) >> gmhupe at htn.net >> www.LunarRock.com >> IMCA 3163 >> ==================== >> Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Cressy" >> >> To: ; "Greg Hupe" >> >> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA >> 5480 - AD >> >> >>> Hello Greg, >>> >>> Glad I've received my slice ;-) >>> >>> I'll also echo Bernd's enthusiam for this meteorite...SPECTACULAR! >>> >>> Any chance you'd consider having thin sections made? I'm sure >>> there are enough list members that would committ to purchasing one >>> if they were available. >>> >>> All the best, >>> Frank >>> >>> >>> --- On Mon, 1/5/09, Greg Hupe wrote: >>> >>>> From: Greg Hupe >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA >>>> 5480 - AD >>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 10:04 AM >>>> Dear List Members, >>>> >>>> I hope everyone had a happy and safe New Year's >>>> celebration! To start up the >>>> new year, I would like to give you an updated list of the >>>> remaining >>>> specimens of NWA 5480, the Incomparable new Olivine >>>> Diogenite. >>>> >>>> NWA 5480 Olivine Diogenite: >>>> Available Specimens (Only 11 pieces left): >>>> >>>> 670g End Cut >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00003.jpg >>>> 168.3g cs >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00005.jpg >>>> 137g cs >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00007.jpg >>>> 127g cs >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00008.jpg >>>> 494g Complete Stone (Awesome "swirl" feature) >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00003.jpg >>>> 462g Complete Stone (Great display of the 'mixed' >>>> minerals) >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00005.jpg >>>> 269g Complete Stone >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00007.jpg >>>> 71.3g End Cut >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00010.jpg >>>> 16.1g cs >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00015.jpg >>>> 14.4g cs (Sale Pending) >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00016.jpg >>>> 14g cs >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00017.jpg >>>> cs - complete slice >>>> ps - part slice >>>> >>>> Pricing: >>>> Whole stones (Just 3 available) - $10.00/g >>>> Large end cuts (Only one left) - $12.00/g >>>> Large slices and small end cut (Only 3 left) - $16.00/g >>>> Small slices (2 available slices) - $20.00/g >>>> >>>> As soon as I sell the remaining two smaller slices, I may >>>> choose to cut one >>>> of the complete stones to make more slices available, >>>> unless the complete >>>> stones sell in the meantime. >>>> >>>> Thank you for considering these! >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Greg >>>> >>>> ==================== >>>> Greg Hupe >>>> The Hupe Collection >>>> NaturesVault (eBay) >>>> gmhupe at htn.net >>>> www.LunarRock.com >>>> IMCA 3163 >>>> ==================== >>>> Click here for my current eBay auctions: >>>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is > making > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Metorman46 at aol.com Tue Jan 6 13:38:17 2009 From: Metorman46 at aol.com (Metorman46 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:38:17 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 4, 2009 Message-ID: Michael,Thomas; That meteorite deserves a rest in the easy chair after such a long trip to get to where it did on old mother earth.Thanks for sharing! Beautiful specimen. Best Regards;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770 **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 13:38:29 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 10:38:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA 5480 - AD Message-ID: <137988.96650.qm@web45615.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I was lucky enough to aquire?a few?samples of this and I will add that I am very happy with it and do agree that the photos do not do this meteorite justice. To see it in person is simply amazing. There is an awesome swirled crystal structure?and it makes an outstanding display piece. In my opinion the NWA 5480 is a must have for collectors. If my budget was not so tight currently, I would be buying up as much of it as I could for the price he is asking... ? Greg C. www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com --- On Tue, 1/6/09, Darryl Pitt wrote: From: Darryl Pitt Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA 5480 - AD To: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Cc: "Meteorite-list List" Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 1:34 PM Looking forward! And I know you will.? ? ;-) On Jan 6, 2009, at 1:16 PM, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote: > Oh, I'll give you the colors of the? rainbow!???Greg has arranged? > for me to > examine the thin section used? to classify this OD.? I'll post when? > the images > are up. > > Speaking of Greg, he has provided me with the description (of a? > pairing? NWA > 4587) for this months Meteorite Times Micro Vision on NWA 4901 the? > anomalous > achondrite also paired with NWA 011.? Real cool stuff!? there are??? > structures > in it that I have never seen before. > > Paul should have? this month's issue up in a couple days. > > All my past Micro Vision? articles have been incorporated into my? > Micrograph > Gallery menu.? This? makes it much easier to find what you are? > looking for. > > Tom > > In a? message dated 1/6/2009 8:34:06 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, > darryl at dof3.com? writes: > > > It's so great (and so unusual) when a meteorite is? sufficiently > visually engaging that folks on the list post their? enthusiasm for? > the > same. > > Reminds me of a recent story.???This fellow called to let me know he > had a meteorite for sale.???When I asked him to describe it he said, > "It's got almost all the? colors of the rainbow and it's kind of > iridescent,"? to which I? replied, "Sir, with all respect, meteorites > don't look like? that."? Without skipping a beat, "And that's exactly > why mine is? worth so much!"???;-) > > Seems like we should all obtain a sample? of 5480. > > Best/ d > > > > > On Jan 6, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Greg Hupe? wrote: > >> Hi Frank and List, >> >> Frank wrote, >> "I'll? also echo Bernd's enthusiasm for this meteorite (NWA >> 5480)...SPECTACULAR! >> Any chance you'd consider having thin sections? made?? I'm sure there >> are enough list members that would? commit to purchasing one if they >> were available." >> >> In the past I have sent different material out to make thin >> sections, I don't have the time to try and fill all of the niches. >> Maybe Anne Black or someone else who have the lead on the best? thin >> section makers would like to pursue it? >> >> "Thank You" to all who have purchased some of the "Incomparable >> Olivine Diogenite", NWA 5480! >> >> Best regards, >> Greg >> >> ==================== >> Greg Hupe >> The Hupe? Collection >> NaturesVault (eBay) >> gmhupe at htn.net >> www.LunarRock.com >> IMCA 3163 >> ==================== >> Click? here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Cressy" >> >> To:? ; "Greg Hupe" >> >> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA >> 5480 - AD >> >> >>> Hello? Greg, >>> >>> Glad I've received my slice? ;-) >>> >>> I'll also echo Bernd's enthusiam for this? meteorite...SPECTACULAR! >>> >>> Any chance you'd consider? having thin sections made?? I'm sure >>> there are enough? list members that would committ to purchasing one >>> if they? were available. >>> >>> All the best, >>> Frank >>> >>> >>> --- On Mon, 1/5/09, Greg Hupe? wrote: >>> >>>> From: Greg Hupe? >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable? Olivine Diogenite - NWA >>>> 5480 - AD >>>> To:? meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Date: Monday, January 5,? 2009, 10:04 AM >>>> Dear List? Members, >>>> >>>> I hope everyone had a happy and safe? New Year's >>>> celebration! To start up the >>>> new? year, I would like to give you an updated list of the >>>> remaining >>>> specimens of NWA 5480, the Incomparable new? Olivine >>>> Diogenite. >>>> >>>> NWA 5480? Olivine Diogenite: >>>> Available Specimens (Only 11 pieces? left): >>>> >>>> 670g End Cut >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00003.jpg >>>> 168.3g? cs >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00005.jpg >>>> 137g? cs >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00007.jpg >>>> 127g? cs >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00008.jpg >>>> 494g? Complete Stone (Awesome "swirl" feature) >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00003.jpg >>>> 462g Complete? Stone (Great display of the 'mixed' >>>> minerals) >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00005.jpg >>>> 269g Complete? Stone >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00007.jpg >>>> 71.3g End? Cut >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00010.jpg >>>> 16.1g? cs >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00015.jpg >>>> 14.4g cs? (Sale Pending) >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00016.jpg >>>> 14g? cs >>>> http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00017.jpg >>>> cs - complete? slice >>>> ps - part slice >>>> >>>> Pricing: >>>> Whole stones (Just 3 available) -? $10.00/g >>>> Large end cuts (Only one left) -? $12.00/g >>>> Large slices and small end cut (Only 3 left) -? $16.00/g >>>> Small slices (2 available slices) -? $20.00/g >>>> >>>> As soon as I sell the remaining two? smaller slices, I may >>>> choose to cut one >>>> of the? complete stones to make more slices available, >>>> unless the? complete >>>> stones sell in the? meantime. >>>> >>>> Thank you for considering? these! >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> Greg >>>> >>>> ==================== >>>> Greg? Hupe >>>> The Hupe Collection >>>> NaturesVault? (eBay) >>>> gmhupe at htn.net >>>> www.LunarRock.com >>>> IMCA 3163 >>>> ==================== >>>> Click here for my current eBay? auctions: >>>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing? list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list? mailing? list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > **************New year...new news.? Be the first to know what is? > making > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bristolia at yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 14:16:50 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:16:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] PDF file of Article on Gunlock Meteorite Available Message-ID: <49167.80629.qm@web36205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The Utah Geological Survey has published an article about the Gunlock Meteorite. It is: Laine, M., 2008, The Gunlock Meteorite Finds a New Home at the Utah Geological Survey. vol. 40, no. 2, pp. 9-10. Its PDF file can be found at: http://geology.utah.gov/surveynotes/snt40-2.pdf http://geology.utah.gov/surveynotes/ http://media.bonnint.net/slc/470/47062/4706229.pdf The "Glad you asked..." column is about "So you think you have found a meteorite!" on page 8. Yours, Paul H. From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jan 6 14:56:04 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 06 Jan 2009 19:56:04 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Gunlock (L3.2) Meteorite Macrochondrule Message-ID: Hi Paul and List, PRINZ M. et al. (1988) Gunlock, a new type 3 ordinary chondrite with a golfball-sized chondrule (Meteoritics 23-3, 1988, p. 297): A large black (metal-free) mass was found on the edge of the sample, with a beautifully curved contact with the chondrite host. It is rimmed by a thin layer of metal-troilite. This represents about 1/3 of a huge chondrule, most of which is missing. The radius is over 2 cm, and the diameter is estimated by reconstruction to be about 5 cm. This object is clearly droplet-shaped and is a macrochondrule. Brrr, it's cold here in Germany! - 4.8?C / 23.3?F Bernd From mfcollecter at yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 16:17:44 2009 From: mfcollecter at yahoo.com (Said Haddany) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 13:17:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Moroccan High Atlas fall. Message-ID: <288823.74582.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi list , After few days of searching there were few kilos found from the last fall on the atlas mountains..What is not good is that all the pieces that are found till now are fragments which have not much crust .. cheers ? Said Haddany From cynapse at charter.net Tue Jan 6 18:50:50 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 18:50:50 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Newspaper reporter doesn't learn definition of "meteor" In-Reply-To: <042A54FD-6EEF-4069-90C8-6C512B89CE6B@dof3.com> References: <343202.22687.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <042A54FD-6EEF-4069-90C8-6C512B89CE6B@dof3.com> Message-ID: <4gr7m4ha8e33los0vrbqbfiekghj9g69n6@4ax.com> http://www.barrheadleader.com/news/2009/0106/news2.htm 10 tonnes of flaming history By Kevin Ma Leader Staff Four billion years doesn?t feel like much when you hold it in your hand. It doesn?t look like much, either. It?s a coal-black lump of rock that?s just a few centimetres in diameter. It?s feather-light, weighing about as much as a loonie. But this rock is about 4.6 billion years old, says Murray Paulson, an amateur astronomer in St. Albert. On Nov. 20 it came screaming out of the heavens at about 50,400 kilometres an hour, part of a 10-tonne meteorite the size of an office desk that lit up the Alberta sky as a blazing fireball. Paulson was one of the many meteorite hunters who descended on Buzzard Coulee, Sask. in the days after to find pieces of this rare stone. "These are fossils of our solar system," Paulson emphasizes. "Every one of them has a story to tell us." Really tiny planets Paulson, a physicist by training, says he first became hooked on meteors about 13 years ago, when he got a chance to hold one. "It was a neat thing to realize that I was holding a piece of another planet," he says. "It was one of those pivotal moments in your life when you realize, ?This is important.?" He went on to start the small collection of meteors he now has on his desk. There?s a black triangular chunk from the Bruderheim meteor of 1960, for example, and a plastic case containing a small chip of Mars. Next to them are the six fragments he found earlier this month - coal-like lumps ranging from three to 50 grams in weight. Researchers say meteors are chunks of rock dating back to the start of the solar system about 4.6 billion years ago. Back then, as Paulson explains with enthusiasm, the solar system was a soup of elements swirling around in a disk. Over time, some of these elements came together to form bigger clumps called planetesimals. Some of those lumps formed planets; others became part of what is now known as the asteroid belt. When bits of these bodies break off through collisions and streak into the Earth?s atmosphere, they are called meteors. Meteors have a few features that set them apart from other rocks, Paulson explains. They have a thin black fusion crust on the outside, caused by the fiery heat of their descent, but are grey on the inside. They also tend to be magnetic, he adds, sticking one to a circular magnet. Look closely, Paulson says, and you will see that these meteors contain many tiny spheres. These spheres are called chondrules, bits of dust that ran into hot portions of that ancient solar soup and melted into drops of hot lava. Their presence in these stones means the Nov. 20 meteor is classified as a chondrite (named after the Greek word for seed, chondros). The meteor that these fragments came from probably swung around the solar system for millions of years before it blundered into Earth?s orbit last month, Paulson says. Researchers are still calculating its original orbit. "Then it came screaming in about half an hour before suppertime." 10 tonnes of fiery boom Alan Hildebrand, professor of planetary science at the University of Calgary, is the lead scientist in the Nov. 20 meteor recovery effort. He met Paulson and many other meteor fans during their hunt for the stones earlier this month. At precisely 5:26:40 p.m. on Nov. 20, he says, hundreds of Alberta and Saskatchewan residents reported seeing a ball of blue-white fire zip across the sky. Night briefly flared into day as the fireball thundered overhead, passing from afternoon-bright to evening orange over the course of five seconds before it disappeared. This fireball was caused when a meteor hit the Earth?s atmosphere at about 14 kilometres a second ? a bit below the typical meteor speed of 20, Hildebrand says ? at a 60-degree angle. Intense heat from friction with the air melted the surface of the rock and created a fusion crust, a bright light and a sonic boom. "It?s a temperature similar to the surface of the sun," he says. "Basically, we [were] looking at white-hot air." The meteor broke up in a series of bright explosions, the low-frequency sounds from which were picked up by infrasound detectors from Greenland to Utah. Data from those sensors, originally designed to detect nuclear missile launches, suggest the rock had a mass of 10 tonnes and exploded with the force of about 300 tonnes of TNT. The fact that the rock didn?t stop breaking up until it was about 12 kilometres above the ground suggests it was originally pretty big, Hildebrand says ? about the size of an office desk, he estimates. After breaking up, the rock kept falling to earth, scattering debris over a large area. The meteor fragments would have hit the earth at a mere 180 to 360 km/h, Hildebrand says. One 13-kilogram chunk of the meteor was later found eight inches deep in the frozen earth. Anyone standing near the impact site might have heard a whistling sound like a golf ball as the meteors whizzed past. The search Hildebrand and graduate student Ellen Milley found the meteor?s debris field on Nov. 27. Finding it was a matter of triangulation, he says. Extensive footage of the fireball indicated that it had first appeared about 80 kilometres above and east of Lloydminster and headed southeast towards the Battle River. Interviews on the ground narrowed the search area to a 20 square kilometre zone near Buzzard Coulee, southeast of the hamlet of Lone Rock, Sask. Eventually, Hildebrand took a ride past a pond on a farm owned by Ian Mitchell. "Ellen spotted some dark things on the pond." They got out of their car to investigate and, after two false positives (a leaf and a rock), found the first 250 gram chunk of the meteor embedded in the ice. Paulson says he missed the fireball by about three minutes, but soon joined the search to find where the meteor landed. "These are the kind of chances that only come along a few times in your life." He and several other local astronomers reached the site on a clear, cold Nov. 29 and started their search on the Battle River. "The surface of the ice was polished like a hockey rink," he recalls. "It was just beautiful." Several other meteor hunters passed them on skates. Paulson and his crew scanned the ice for suspicious black objects, testing each with magnets mounted on sticks. After hours of searching, Paulson spotted a possible candidate buried in the ice. He chiseled it out with a hammer and tested it with a magnet. It stuck. "When it stuck to my magnet, that was it ? I was in seventh heaven," Paulson says. "I?d never found a meteor before in my life and it was so cool to actually see it among all the other things on the ground." Paulson found about 20 other meteorites over the next few days and kept six. He says he?s particularly proud of one he dubbed a "road-kill" meteor, because he found it split in two on one of the area?s roads. "Somebody went a little bit ahead of us and found a seven-kilogram piece of meteorite," he says. "Sigh." The meteor hunt has stopped now that the snow has come, Hildebrand says. He and other researchers will now study the meteorites to determine their contents. Preserved dust in the rocks might offer clues on the early structure of the solar system. Paulson says he plans to study his meteors and show them to his friends. "Very few of us will ever get to leave Earth and go to the moon or places like that," he says. "This is one of the few opportunities you have in your life of touching another planet." From michael at spacerocksinc.com Wed Jan 7 01:10:16 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 22:10:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 7, 2009 Message-ID: <15146638.523341231308616042.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_7_2009.html From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au Wed Jan 7 01:56:52 2009 From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:56:52 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] QMIG Update - there be metal in them tha rox Message-ID: Listoids I've done a bit of an update to http://www.qmig.org I've updated the Weona, Winton 1 and Winton 2 webages that can be browsed from the Queensland Falls webapage If I feel excited I might even add some linx from the news webpage... maybe not I tried to keep a theme of showing how much damn metal is in some of these chondrites - not particularly exciting perhaps but Listoids will know that too much metal implies some of the rarer sub-types - these ones are ordinary chondrites but one of my new Ingella Station finds may yet turn out to be something exotic And I updated one of the Tenham pictures I have always hated For those of you with "Tucson Fever" all the best for your planned shopping spree in meteorite heaven Cheers From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au Wed Jan 7 02:43:03 2009 From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:43:03 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Iz looking for a dummies guide on how to cut iron meteorites Message-ID: Listoids Iz looking for a dummies guide on how to cut iron meteorites I have the opportunity to cut some museum grade very large specimens if I can show that I won't murder them Iz after as much info and photos as possible on types of continuous band saws incl teeth size - cutting speeds - lubricants etc Once I have this info I can test it inpractice with some of my common and cheaper irons and then I intend to run amok with the rarer kritters Please contact me off-list if you can assist with this Ta From meteoriteshow at free.fr Wed Jan 7 06:45:43 2009 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:45:43 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auction ending on Saturday Message-ID: Dear All, This saturday we have one auction ending for a batch of 5 SAHARA 02500 fragments and individuals, total weight 50g++ that you canb find at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmeteoriteshow Let's say that we are enjoying some holidays for about another week with few meteorites on ebay and we will start again soon with more. Thanks for looking and kind regards, Frederic Beroud http://www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA #2491 From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr Wed Jan 7 09:38:10 2009 From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?Pel=E9=20Pierre-Marie?=) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:38:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: [meteorite-list] new fall in Morroco Message-ID: <387001.7995.qm@web23008.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hello, I looked at the snow in Oukaimeden (where you can skiing 70km SE of Marrakech). There's snow and cold for a week. I wonder how the freshly meteorites were found in such a bad condition, in the mountains near Marrakech ? And the size of the strewnfield (4,000 sq kilometers ????) is enormous and doubtful. Also, stones are said to be weathered. Are we sure it's a new fall and not saharian meteorites sold as a new fall ? Regards, Pierre-Marie Pele www.meteor-center.com From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 09:40:43 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:40:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] new fall in Morroco In-Reply-To: <387001.7995.qm@web23008.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <841204.49277.qm@web110613.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I was told by one of my best Moroccan suppliers that he has been working on this fireball for two weeks, and has yet to find anyone who knows of pieces being recovered. I sense a recycling of chergach or Bassi going on. I also know the High Atlas should be well covered in snow right now. I would need to see these stones to be interested. Michael Farmer --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Pel? Pierre-Marie wrote: > From: Pel? Pierre-Marie > Subject: [meteorite-list] new fall in Morroco > To: "MeteoriteList" > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 7:38 AM > Hello, > > I looked at the snow in Oukaimeden (where you can > skiing 70km SE of Marrakech). There's snow and cold > for a week. > > I wonder how the freshly meteorites were found in such > a bad condition, in the mountains near Marrakech ? > And the size of the strewnfield (4,000 sq kilometers > ????) is enormous and doubtful. > > Also, stones are said to be weathered. > > Are we sure it's a new fall and not saharian > meteorites sold as a new fall ? > > Regards, > > Pierre-Marie Pele > www.meteor-center.com > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 09:59:28 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:59:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Mars rock found in Antarctica? Message-ID: <429426.57295.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.humanedgetech.com/expedition/ansmet3/ Looking at this meteorite, found only days ago in Antarctica, it appears to me to likely be a shergottite, looks like Shergotty! The description of "shiny fusion crust, small cryatals, steel grey interior" all of these suggest Martian to me. Michael Farmer From schoner at mybluelight.com Wed Jan 7 11:00:40 2009 From: schoner at mybluelight.com (Steve Schoner) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:00:40 GMT Subject: [meteorite-list] Freebee Meteoritics Magazines. Message-ID: <20090107.090040.3136.0@webmail17.dca.untd.com> Hello, Have to clear some space for my thin section lab and must get rid of some books. So, I have 28 issues of Meteoritics from the 1980's to 1990. Volumes 17-25. Mostly complete except for vol. 17 and 25. First e-mail to list gets it. That way clear some space on my book shelves and I don't get my box flooded with requests. Will send all these to the first responder for free, and I will even pay the postage to send it. Steve Schoner IMCA 4470 ____________________________________________________________ Need a Domain Name? Instant Domain Registration - Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/PnY6rzGOBJpl8PlxyyOhJSyYCdxNyigNM0RofxTjBJyimJyMGWs4M/ From info at meteoritenhaus.de Wed Jan 7 11:13:17 2009 From: info at meteoritenhaus.de (Andreas Gren) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:13:17 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Freebee Meteoritics Magazines. In-Reply-To: <20090107.090040.3136.0@webmail17.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Dear Steve, I would be very interested and would of course cover shipping costs to Germany. Best Greetings Andi Hello, Have to clear some space for my thin section lab and must get rid of some books. So, I have 28 issues of Meteoritics from the 1980's to 1990. Volumes 17-25. Mostly complete except for vol. 17 and 25. First e-mail to list gets it. That way clear some space on my book shelves and I don't get my box flooded with requests. Will send all these to the first responder for free, and I will even pay the postage to send it. Steve Schoner IMCA 4470 ____________________________________________________________ Need a Domain Name? Instant Domain Registration - Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/PnY6rzGOBJpl8PlxyyOhJSyYC dxNyigNM0RofxTjBJyimJyMGWs4M/ ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jan 7 11:16:08 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:16:08 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] The old one two punch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090107085320.htm Catastrophic Coincidence: Second Ever Example Of Contemporaneous Meteorite Impact And Flood Volcanism Discovered ScienceDaily (Jan. 7, 2009) ? Scientists have discovered only the second example of a meteorite impact that occurred at the same time as massive volcanic activity, in research published in the Journal of the Geological Society the week of Jan 12. The first time such a coincidence was observed, at the Cretaceous-Tertiary boundary, was the catastrophic event thought to be responsible for the extinction of the dinosaurs, 65 million years ago. This new event, uncovered after the 17 km diameter Logoisk impact structure in Belarus was precisely dated, is thought to have taken place around 30 million years ago. The crater was dated using argon isotopes, and found to have occurred at a similar time to a period of massive volcanism known as the Afro-Arabian flood volcanism, which started in NW Yemen at around 30.9 Mya, and SW Yemen at around 29.0 Mya. The impact also coincides broadly with a period of sudden global cooling and sea level fluctuation. The researchers, led by Sarah Sherlock at the Open University, argue that massive volcanic eruptions and meteorite impacts are likely to have coincided much more frequently than has previously been thought, but because the preservation of impact craters on Earth is poor much of the evidence for these coincidences is lost. The relationships between meteorite impact craters, volcanism and changes in climate is a subject of much debate among scientists. Prior to the study, only one example of an impact coinciding with volcanism had been found: the Chicxulub and Boltysh impacts and the Deccan Traps flood volcanism, all of which occurred at the Cretaceous-Tertiary boundary. In 2002, the discovery of their coincidence with a global mass extinction led to debate over the causative links between meteorite impacts, volcanism and mass extinction events, and fuelled the search for more impacts at stratigraphic boundaries. Unlike the Cretaceous-Tertiary event, the combination of the Logoisk impact and the Afro-Arabain flood volcanism does not seem to have caused an extinction event. The researchers suggest that the reason for this may be that the magnitude of the event was not sufficiently large in comparison. Whilst the Chicxulub crater associated with the extinction of the dinosaurs measures 170km in diameter and the Deccan Traps released around (2-4) x106 km3 of lava, in comparison the Logoisk impact structure measures 17km across and the Afro-Arabian flood volcanism is around 1.2 x106 km3 in volume. As a result, the effects of each event were likely to have been very different. At the Cretaceous-Tertiary boundary, it is thought that one of the deadly effects was the release of sulphur dioxide, either as acid rain or in the stratosphere, where it would have prevented heat from reaching the earth and caused massive global cooling. Around 8000 billion tons of SO2 are thought to have been released by the volcanism and meteorite impact. In comparison, the Logoisk impact and the Afro-Arabian volcanism are thought to have contributed only 30 billion tons of SO2. Meteorite impact craters are extremely difficult to date, but an understanding of their age and frequency is crucial to attempts to control the number of future impacts, as well as understanding the links between impacts and other catastrophic events such as large volcanic eruptions and mass extinctions. Around 90% of the Earth?s record of meteorite impacts is lost, and the researchers argue that coincidences between impacts and flood volcanism are far from rare. They suggest that, for every incidence of flood volcanism, at least one crater the size of Logoisk is likely to form, although few such coincidences are likely to be on a scale grand enough to bring about an extinction event comparable with that which destroyed the dinosaurs. From delraygoddess at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 11:26:14 2009 From: delraygoddess at yahoo.com (Leigh Anne DelRay) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:26:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Thin Section collecting - storage In-Reply-To: <005901c96ec9$89ebbea0$9dc33be0$@kashuba@verizon.net> Message-ID: <909011.31994.qm@web37106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks so much for all of your help, I really appreciate it. I was wondering how many people keep them inside those little plastic cases, verses, leaving them naked to be stored like these? I wonder if the plastic cases are just because people don't have a cabinet, or, would the cabinet need to accomodate these plastic case around every slide. Thanks, Leigh Anne --- On Sun, 1/4/09, Kashuba wrote: > From: Kashuba > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] question for thin section collectors > To: delraygoddess at yahoo.com > Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 5:07 PM > Leigh Anne, > > Here's how I do it. I used to make my own from wood, > but don't anymore. If > he insists he wants to do it I can give tips. > > - John > > John Kashuba > Ontario, California > > > http://burnhampetrographics.com/petropoxy/ppp.php > http://burnhampetrographics.com/pdfs/pricelists/ppp_prices.pdf > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On > Behalf Of Leigh Anne > DelRay > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 3:30 PM > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] question for thin section > collectors > > > > I was wondering if anyone could tell me the typical way > that thin sections > are collected. I know that they are on microscope slides, > but do people > typically keep those slides in an old microscope slide box, > or drawer of > some sort? > Is there a protective type case that is typical of thin > section collectors? > My boyfriend is a custom woodworker, and it trying to > figure out a way to > build a storage case for these. > Thanks in advance, > Leigh Anne DelRay > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gsac at gmx.net Wed Jan 7 12:22:41 2009 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:22:41 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Thin Section collecting - storage In-Reply-To: <909011.31994.qm@web37106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <909011.31994.qm@web37106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090107172241.300940@gmx.net> Hello Leigh Anne and listees, thin sections also display nicely in a cabinet. The best 100 examples of my own collection are displayed in five rows behind glass in a wooden framed cabinet hanging at one of the walls in my living room. Each of those sections is placed in the upright position on a small tripod plastic stand (PS: I believe these are also known under the name "mini easel stands", but I am not sure). I keep all my other thin sections in several small wooden thin section boxes, holding 25 each, which I once bought from David New, years ago. If I have to transport thin sections from one local place to another (...I use to live in two different places a few hundred km apart...), or may be, take them to or from a show, I use those little flat plastic cases, which Anne Black supplies with any thin section ordered from her. This is a safe way to handle the slides, when you are "on the road again", or just want to show them to someone else without the need to touch them with your fingers. Best, Alex Berlin/Germany -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:26:14 -0800 (PST) > Von: Leigh Anne DelRay > An: Kashuba , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, impactika at aol.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Thin Section collecting - storage > Thanks so much for all of your help, I really appreciate it. > I was wondering how many people keep them inside those little plastic > cases, verses, leaving them naked to be stored like these? I wonder if the > plastic cases are just because people don't have a cabinet, or, would the > cabinet need to accomodate these plastic case around every slide. > Thanks, > Leigh Anne > > > > > > --- On Sun, 1/4/09, Kashuba wrote: > > > From: Kashuba > > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] question for thin section collectors > > To: delraygoddess at yahoo.com > > Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 5:07 PM > > Leigh Anne, > > > > Here's how I do it. I used to make my own from wood, > > but don't anymore. If > > he insists he wants to do it I can give tips. > > > > - John > > > > John Kashuba > > Ontario, California > > > > > > http://burnhampetrographics.com/petropoxy/ppp.php > > http://burnhampetrographics.com/pdfs/pricelists/ppp_prices.pdf > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On > > Behalf Of Leigh Anne > > DelRay > > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 3:30 PM > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Subject: [meteorite-list] question for thin section > > collectors > > > > > > > > I was wondering if anyone could tell me the typical way > > that thin sections > > are collected. I know that they are on microscope slides, > > but do people > > typically keep those slides in an old microscope slide box, > > or drawer of > > some sort? > > Is there a protective type case that is typical of thin > > section collectors? > > My boyfriend is a custom woodworker, and it trying to > > figure out a way to > > build a storage case for these. > > Thanks in advance, > > Leigh Anne DelRay > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 14:30:26 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 11:30:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] new tichka falls some fact??? Message-ID: <547508.82369.qm@web62001.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hi all pierre marie pele wrote: ?I wonder how the freshly meteorites were found in such a bad condition, in the mountains near Marrakech ? And the size of the strewnfield (4,000 sq kilometers ????)? is enormous and doubtful. _________________________________ well , i have sad before i will wait for analysis, that the bottom line of all this new fall ; 1= 4000km? is small very small area for the trajectory of a fireball , ask the guys in the last fall of Canada what is the distance between the stone found, the same for ""amgala"" oum dreyga smara? stone found 60 km behind; chergash trajectory also is between 5000 km?. there is a revelating story behind amgala?????, well , again pele happy that you have visited Morocco , but didn't you see how big is tichka from teloualte to tahanout to irghrm, its over than 200km*200km= 40000km?; this fall has been sawn in irgem first point agadir , marakech tichka and tahenout, and the rest of this fall went to the beach of eljadida; consider those as observation and as scientific fact, where they bring this meteorite now mostly broken no crust and? every rare crust let's say that, we never know if there is more somewhere? else and as always each time we introduce some fact from nwa falls there is always. some armchairs analyst that found easy to comment lie and doubt-full and balbla,when iot become true they do nothing just to be queit ,it has happened with bassikounou and with chergash? do not forget the battle about prices also, and etc............. coming back to what is a fact 1= there was big fireball sawn over 40000km?. 2= there are some meteorite broken found without crust or some crust weathered 3= the meteorite found inside snow and meteorite hit mountain and become broken , and the hunter local one ride donkey and mullet to access the are no cars no ULM no Montgolfier only donkeys 4= i have a sample and i m ready to send it for free for any lab any one who want to work on it; 5= there is nothing to sell i heard there is found more than 20 kilos till now broken stuff 6= the local people in this area are asking 100$ gr they think they have found a tresor, 7= there is fight for it and price will slow down, 8= there is some gone for Europe and there is some going now to tucson and usa. 9 = the asked price is between 2.5$ and 3$ and 5$. 10= bottom line i m not selling any of this fall , i get an offer to sell it ?and i refuse , because we always make nothing in falls outside having to answer trouble makers, thanks for your comment as always you do good; habibi aziz www.palmserfoud.com www.palmotel.com box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From ted at filigreeinc.com Wed Jan 7 16:13:21 2009 From: ted at filigreeinc.com (ted) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:13:21 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fun questions, or public FAQs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My most of received questions from kids is: "Can I keep it?" My answer depends on my mood :-) Ted Betz -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Eduardo. Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 8:20 AM To: Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fun questions, or public FAQs One I had several times: "If a meteorite fell in your head will it kill you?" "Was somebody ever been killed by a meteorite?" (they usually go one after the other) I always show the Park Porest Garza stone kit here. also "Were the dinosaurs really been killed by meteorites?" (most of the times by kids who love dinosaurs) Eduardo -----Original Message----- From: Mark Crawford To: Meteorite List Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:34:12 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fun questions, or public FAQs > I was reflecting yesterday on the fun I get showing my collection to > guests, and talking about meteorites to non-hobbyists. It got me > thinking that there are some standard questions which come up time and > again. > > * "Where do you get them from?" [One of the few opportunities to use > the line 'I buy from dealers by the gram' in polite conversation :) ] > > * "How do you know they haven't just gone to the local DIY store and > bought a bag of gravel?" [or various versions of this] > > * "How do you know it really comes from Mars/the Moon/the asteroids?" > > ...and I suppose if the conversation comes round to it: > > * "HOW much???" :) > > > I wondered if other list members had any fun regular (or occasional) > ones to share? > > Mark > > -- > Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mexicodoug at aim.com Wed Jan 7 16:18:40 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 16:18:40 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] CNN reports Obama to ride in Asteroid-proof Limo; -) Message-ID: <8CB3F24A55AF1BE-167C-576@Webmail-mg17.sim.aol.com> Hi Listites and other Amphoterites, As I scratched my noggin on the why, why, why conspicuous consumption is still such a positive cornerstone even for those who promise to renew the ever dwindling planetary resources, these words from CNN were hilarious (could this government project be the long awaited bailout stimulus plan for GM?). Hmmmm..... they say it is a hybrid vehicle (that runs only on diesel?).... If Obama hasn't thought of it yet, I'd quietly order one up with dual Rutan hybrid rocket engines, divert a bit of the nitrous oxide into the driver's airspace, and take a spin around the asteroid belt for what this is costing all those rich taxpayers, but alas, that naughty former Australian PM has production tied up for the moment: **** "[On the Obamas' new official limo to premier on Inaguration Day,] One news agency, noting its 8-inch-thick doors, says the limo can withstand a "direct hit from an asteroid." But GM spokeswoman Joanne K. Krell laughed off the comments. In truth, the new presidential limo is a Cadillac, Krell said, although it is "not a direct extension of any single model." "The presidential vehicle is built to precise and special specifications, undergoes extreme testing and development, and also incorporates many of the top aspects of Cadillac's 'regular' cars -- such as signature design, hand-cut-and-sewn interiors, etc.," Krell told CNN. "Cadillac is honored to serve and renew this great tradition," she said. "And it is entirely appropriate that an American president has at his service a great American vehicle." For much of the country's history, the Secret Service didn't even drive the president, evidently oblivious to the dangers of asteroids.**** " Wow - unfortunately for most of us, the Secret Service almost had it right! Furthermore...what fun will it be if the vehicle industry follows suite and the hammered become the hammers, with just a little remaining black fusion crust remaining on the vehicle next to a pile of pulverized meteorite powder. The complete story and a picture of the engineering gem: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/06/driving.obama/index.html Best wishes and Happy New Year, Doug (disclaimer-this post is apolitical, virtually all leaders are equally inclined not to look their lavishes of state and gifts horse in the mouth. Just happens this workhorse's asteroid proof!) From mmurray at montrose.net Wed Jan 7 16:41:33 2009 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 14:41:33 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Any new news on the fireball over Tok Alaska? Message-ID: <21EFE7B0-9CC8-48DC-91DB-7DDE5A237F9B@montrose.net> Anyone see anything new in the news concerning this reported fireball? Mr. Twelker are you out there? Mike in CO From mfcollecter at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 18:33:17 2009 From: mfcollecter at yahoo.com (Said Haddany) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:33:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] New fall in Morocco Message-ID: <436024.53122.qm@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi everybody, It was already confirmed that there was a fall on the tichka mounataines,i think it makes no sense to say anything bad against this fall..Moroccan dealers are trust worthy people and they never play games as anyone might think it is only recycling the previous falls ..Anyone who doubt it need to try and buy some stuff from this fall and he will see ..Normally it shouldnt be judged before it is seen ....anyone who wants to know if it is a real fall,no problem just give us a hint and we can ship to him some of this stuff after fixing the price then he should confess on the list that there was a mistake maken on judging it negativelly.. The Tucson show is coming in few weeks and all the dealers who have the chance to be in Tucson will have the apportunity to see and own some of this new fall then an end would be put to all these bad impressions about it..Anyone who is interested in this new fall shouldnt hesitate to buy and own some of this stuff since the big part of the fall is in the deep ocean.. cheers ? Said Haddany From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 18:51:37 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:51:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] New fall in Morocco In-Reply-To: <436024.53122.qm@web34306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <169321.28136.qm@web110611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Now I am confused, everyone is saying that the fall was near Marrakech, and in the High Atlas Mountains, now you say some fell in the ocean? The Ocean is hundreds of KM from there. Is this now the biggest fall in history. Just confused on the different information coming out. I know there was a fireball, some German friends of mine were in Morocco the day it fell. What is unclear is whether any has actually been found. I will of course, be in Tucson, so I cant wait to see this and compare the pieces to Chergach or Bassi, or Oum Dreyga. If it is new, I will buy if the price is cheap. Michael Farmer --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Said Haddany wrote: > From: Said Haddany > Subject: [meteorite-list] New fall in Morocco > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wednesday, January 7, 2009, 4:33 PM > Hi everybody, > It was already confirmed that there was a fall on the > tichka mounataines,i think it makes no sense to say anything > bad against this fall..Moroccan dealers are trust worthy > people and they never play games as anyone might think it is > only recycling the previous falls ..Anyone who doubt it need > to try and buy some stuff from this fall and he will see > ..Normally it shouldnt be judged before it is seen > ....anyone who wants to know if it is a real fall,no problem > just give us a hint and we can ship to him some of this > stuff after fixing the price then he should confess on the > list that there was a mistake maken on judging it > negativelly.. > The Tucson show is coming in few weeks and all the dealers > who have the chance to be in Tucson will have the > apportunity to see and own some of this new fall then an end > would be put to all these bad impressions about it..Anyone > who is interested in this new fall shouldnt hesitate to buy > and own some of this stuff since the big part of the fall > is in the deep ocean.. > cheers > > > ? Said Haddany > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Wed Jan 7 19:34:39 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:34:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] tichka fall Message-ID: <450824.55842.qm@web62008.mail.re1.yahoo.com> ?hi again the trajectory made it from south morroco the entry of atmosphere and than cross half morroco and trews or eject or what you call is exploded in fragment along the trajectory, and i can confirm that there will be more found all along the road that this fall has made , my brother in law saw?it ?in agadir and other guys saw in eljadida far from Marrakesh 180km; now dear collector you have a new fall in your hand and thanks Allah that it is once again in our reach and in morroco , at least there something to talk about it, wait to see it? and buy it if you can , i can tell you from here it's a new H 3 lightly melted or i can say a breccias having some Brown inclusion that i have not seen in any of the last fall take care everybody and good night. aziz habibi From debfred at att.net Wed Jan 7 19:37:26 2009 From: debfred at att.net (debfred at att.net) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 00:37:26 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Elagabalus-Aureus Message-ID: <010820090037.12889.49654AC60005D29F0000325922218801869B0A02D29B9B0EBF0B0A9D000D0A0B@att.net> List, If anyone is wondering what I might like for my next birthday. In just 5 days January 12th Stack's Auction House in Ney York will be selling The Golden Horn Collection. The lot # 2330 is what I would like to unwrap on my birthday or Christmas. I have seen several in silver but a golden meteorite is a sight to behold! Regards, Fred PS starting bid only $15,000 http://www.stacks.com/lotdetail.aspx?lsid=AN00000676&asid=&lrid=AN00126253 From John at Cabassi.net Wed Jan 7 19:47:50 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:47:50 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Freebee Meteoritics Magazines. References: <20090107.090040.3136.0@webmail17.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <000301c9712a$c0af0330$4564fea9@TITAN> G'Day Steve Well it looks like I blew that one I was running late for work when you posted and just sent it to your email at 8.08 and I just got home and read it again I should have sent it to the list what a bummer anyway very generous of you to make this offer. Cheers John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Schoner" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:00 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Freebee Meteoritics Magazines. > Hello, > > Have to clear some space for my thin section lab and must get rid of some > books. So, I have 28 issues of Meteoritics from the 1980's to 1990. > Volumes 17-25. Mostly complete except for vol. 17 and 25. > > First e-mail to list gets it. That way clear some space on my book > shelves and I don't get my box flooded with requests. > > Will send all these to the first responder for free, and I will even pay > the postage to send it. > > Steve Schoner > IMCA 4470 > > ____________________________________________________________ > Need a Domain Name? Instant Domain Registration - Click here. > http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/PnY6rzGOBJpl8PlxyyOhJSyYCdxNyigNM0RofxTjBJyimJyMGWs4M/ > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritewatch.com Wed Jan 7 20:54:18 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:54:18 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Curious stones? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49655CCA.6020006@meteoritewatch.com> Hey all, This is not a "is this a meteorite?" question I've been going through cleaning out some boxes of NWA XXX meteorites and I found some meteorites I forgot I had. All these stones are very highly magenetic and snap hard to a neo mag. PHOTOS: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/odd-stones.htm The two broken and sliced pieces appear to be mesosiderite, and I have 5 other pieces that are 100% positive to be meso from this batch that I have sliced and or sanded. Anyone have any information on these pieces or seen any other meteorites like them? Send me a link, information or photos if you do...The odd part about the sliced and broken pieces are the hollow interiors of some of the stones. I have reservations on some of these pieces about their meteoric origin but there are some in this batch that are 100% mesosiderite. What causes this? And if it's oxidation/corrosion why are they corroding form the inside out? Eric From eric at meteoritewatch.com Wed Jan 7 22:16:49 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:16:49 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Never Touch Meteorites! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49657021.8040102@meteoritewatch.com> Why you should never touch meteorites... http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/forum/meteorite-talk/never-touch-meteorites/ Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From Impactika at aol.com Wed Jan 7 22:48:48 2009 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:48:48 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA 5480 - AD Message-ID: Thanks for asking, Frank. I just now bought a nice piece of NWA 5480 from Greg, who was kind enough to cut it exactly to my specifications. And while I was at it, I also bought a fragment of NWA 4590, "Tamassint" angrite, to make more thin-sections. I already had some of those, and they are so pretty I sold them as soon as I posted them. Now you will have to be patient, you cannot rush the artist. Of course, I'll let you know when I get them. Again thanks! Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 1/5/2009 5:09:04 PM Mountain Standard Time, fcressy at prodigy.net writes: Hello Greg, Glad I've received my slice ;-) I'll also echo Bernd's enthusiam for this meteorite...SPECTACULAR! Any chance you'd consider having thin sections made? I'm sure there are enough list members that would committ to purchasing one if they were available. All the best, Frank **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) From gmhupe at htn.net Wed Jan 7 22:59:51 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:59:51 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA 5480 - AD References: Message-ID: <6332D83DA4E447649D45E28AD7A63B64@Gregor> Hi Anne, Thank you again. When it comes to Thin Sections, Anne Black is... "The Source!!" I am more than happy to help any way I can. Anne's thin sections will be from this 269g stone of NWA 5480: http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00007.jpg Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 10:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Incomparable Olivine Diogenite - NWA 5480 - AD > Thanks for asking, Frank. > > I just now bought a nice piece of NWA 5480 from Greg, who was kind enough > to > cut it exactly to my specifications. > And while I was at it, I also bought a fragment of NWA 4590, "Tamassint" > angrite, to make more thin-sections. I already had some of those, and they > are so > pretty I sold them as soon as I posted them. > Now you will have to be patient, you cannot rush the artist. > Of course, I'll let you know when I get them. > > Again thanks! > > Anne M. Black > _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) > _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) > Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. > _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) > > > > In a message dated 1/5/2009 5:09:04 PM Mountain Standard Time, > fcressy at prodigy.net writes: > Hello Greg, > > Glad I've received my slice ;-) > > I'll also echo Bernd's enthusiam for this meteorite...SPECTACULAR! > > Any chance you'd consider having thin sections made? I'm sure there are > enough list members that would committ to purchasing one if they were > available. > > All the best, > Frank > **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making > headlines. (http://www.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000026) > From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jan 7 23:00:59 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 21:00:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Some Pretty Amazing Auctions Are Up * Also Check In The Ebay Store> Message-ID: <9A90653B-20E5-48EC-A1C1-1F9FC2829D1A@gilanet.com> Hello, Auctions are up for the week and Buy It Now's abound and some pretty neat photos of a meteorite that probably has not been sliced before! Go to: http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From schoner at mybluelight.com Wed Jan 7 23:31:02 2009 From: schoner at mybluelight.com (Steve Schoner) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 04:31:02 GMT Subject: [meteorite-list] Freebee Meteoritics Magazines. Message-ID: <20090107.213102.10478.1@webmail04.dca.untd.com> John, That is correct. First post to the list, that way my box does not get flooded. But oddly my box got barraged anyway. Did not think that so many would take me up on the offer. Stranger yet, is that you and the first one that DID post to the list were not in the US. Many that did respond and sent a request to my e-mail are my friends, but-- got to stick to my words, though... "first to post to the list..." Best to you "Down Under." Steve. IMCA 4470 Message: 10 Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:47:50 -0800 From: "John.L.Cabassi" Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Freebee Meteoritics Magazines. To: Message-ID: <000301c9712a$c0af0330$4564fea9 at TITAN> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original G'Day Steve Well it looks like I blew that one I was running late for work when you posted and just sent it to your email at 8.08 and I just got home and read it again I should have sent it to the list what a bummer anyway very generous of you to make this offer. Cheers John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Schoner" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:00 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Freebee Meteoritics Magazines. > Hello, > > Have to clear some space for my thin section lab and must get rid of some > books. So, I have 28 issues of Meteoritics from the 1980's to 1990. > Volumes 17-25. Mostly complete except for vol. 17 and 25. > > First e-mail to list gets it. That way clear some space on my book > shelves and I don't get my box flooded with requests. > > Will send all these to the first responder for free, and I will even pay > the postage to send it. > > Steve Schoner > IMCA 4470 ____________________________________________________________ Smart Vacation. Stay Longer, Pay Less! Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/PnY6rzGW28lK6BV2lPj1cP8Di3eRmX6PiU1KhxKNDnKF8IivbOISg/ From John at Cabassi.net Thu Jan 8 00:07:30 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 21:07:30 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Freebee Meteoritics Magazines. References: <20090107.213102.10478.1@webmail04.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: <002b01c9714f$0718a320$4564fea9@TITAN> G'Day Steve No worries mate. It was very generous of you to offer up what you did. And I am happy for the one that did get in, my congratulations. I just need to pay more attention, but I was kind of in a hurry. But thanks again for offering up a great opportunity. Take care. Cheers John IMCA 2125 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Schoner" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Freebee Meteoritics Magazines. > John, > > That is correct. First post to the list, that way my box does not get > flooded. But oddly my box got barraged anyway. Did not think that so > many would take me up on the offer. > > Stranger yet, is that you and the first one that DID post to the list were > not in the US. > > Many that did respond and sent a request to my e-mail are my friends, > but-- got to stick to my words, though... "first to post to the list..." > > Best to you "Down Under." > > Steve. > IMCA 4470 > > > Message: 10 > Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:47:50 -0800 > From: "John.L.Cabassi" > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Freebee Meteoritics Magazines. > To: > Message-ID: <000301c9712a$c0af0330$4564fea9 at TITAN> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > G'Day Steve > Well it looks like I blew that one I was running late for work when you > posted and just sent it to your email at 8.08 and I just got home and read > it again I should have sent it to the list what a bummer anyway very > generous of you to make this offer. > > Cheers John > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Schoner" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:00 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Freebee Meteoritics Magazines. > > >> Hello, >> >> Have to clear some space for my thin section lab and must get rid of >> some >> books. So, I have 28 issues of Meteoritics from the 1980's to 1990. >> Volumes 17-25. Mostly complete except for vol. 17 and 25. >> >> First e-mail to list gets it. That way clear some space on my book >> shelves and I don't get my box flooded with requests. >> >> Will send all these to the first responder for free, and I will even pay >> the postage to send it. >> >> Steve Schoner >> IMCA 4470 > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Smart Vacation. Stay Longer, Pay Less! Click Here. > http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/PnY6rzGW28lK6BV2lPj1cP8Di3eRmX6PiU1KhxKNDnKF8IivbOISg/ > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at mcomemeteorite.it Thu Jan 8 00:43:34 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 06:43:34 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] New fall in Morocco Message-ID: <49659286.12.134c.834760116@webmaildh6.aruba.it> for what I have seen in the photos, its many similar to the last fall in morocco of some months ago - I have lost the names seen I not buy other meteorites from Morocco from many time - seen in this time moroccans not sale many, seen they ask to much highest prices, is not a problem take pieces of other falls and say this material its from a new fall. Matteo ----- Original Message ----- Da : Said Haddany A : meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Oggetto : [meteorite-list] New fall in Morocco Data : Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:33:17 -0800 (PST) > Hi everybody, > It was already confirmed that there was a fall on the > tichka mounataines,i think it makes no sense to say > anything bad against this fall..Moroccan dealers are trust > worthy people and they never play games as anyone might > think it is only recycling the previous falls ..Anyone who > doubt it need to try and buy some stuff from this fall > and he will see ..Normally it shouldnt be judged before > it is seen ....anyone who wants to know if it is a real > fall,no problem just give us a hint and we can ship to him > some of this stuff after fixing the price then he should > confess on the list that there was a mistake maken on > judging it negativelly.. The Tucson show is coming in few > weeks and all the dealers who have the chance to be in > Tucson will have the apportunity to see and own some of > this new fall then an end would be put to all these bad > impressions about it..Anyone who is interested in this new > fall shouldnt hesitate to buy and own some of this stuff > since the big part of the fall is in the deep ocean.. > cheers > > > ? Said Haddany > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.info Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html From daniel_wray at comcast.net Thu Jan 8 00:55:54 2009 From: daniel_wray at comcast.net (Dan Wray) Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:55:54 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Curious stones? References: <49655CCA.6020006@meteoritewatch.com> Message-ID: <58DAAADB758E43DD9A0FBA73C3DF704E@DAN1> Eric, I am posting this a second time since I didn't send it to the list as I had intended. Although I have seen meteorites this ugly, I am thinking Korra Korrabes, I don't believe that any of these are meteorites. They appear to be artifacts of iron prossessing, ie. slag. Dan Wray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Wichman" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Curious stones? > Hey all, > > This is not a "is this a meteorite?" question > > I've been going through cleaning out some boxes of NWA XXX meteorites and > I found some meteorites I forgot I had. All these stones are very highly > magenetic and snap hard to a neo mag. > > PHOTOS: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/odd-stones.htm > > The two broken and sliced pieces appear to be mesosiderite, and I have 5 > other pieces that are 100% positive to be meso from this batch that I have > sliced and or sanded. > > Anyone have any information on these pieces or seen any other meteorites > like them? Send me a link, information or photos if you do...The odd part > about the sliced and broken pieces are the hollow interiors of some of the > stones. I have reservations on some of these pieces about their meteoric > origin but there are some in this batch that are 100% mesosiderite. > > What causes this? And if it's oxidation/corrosion why are they corroding > form the inside out? > > Eric > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoritekid at gmail.com Thu Jan 8 02:05:23 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 08:05:23 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Curious stones? In-Reply-To: <58DAAADB758E43DD9A0FBA73C3DF704E@DAN1> References: <49655CCA.6020006@meteoritewatch.com> <58DAAADB758E43DD9A0FBA73C3DF704E@DAN1> Message-ID: <93aaac890901072305n302bd0d7u4538e489f1212f8f@mail.gmail.com> Eric, Dan, They look natural to me, but, at least the two that you have cut, don't look like meteorites. Note the cavity in the middle of each - they look much more like terrestrial concretions. That said, some of your specimens do look like the weathered pallasite coming out of Morocco - NWA 4482. Some of the fragments of that pallasite showed the parallel fractures due to spalling displayed by two of your pieces. But there is a large weathered Mesosiderite find that has been attributed at least several NWA numbers as well - both the Hupes and Birdsells were selling quite a bit on ebay, though I can't find the NWA number of it right now - short on time, sorry. Regards, Jason On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 6:55 AM, Dan Wray wrote: > Eric, > > I am posting this a second time since I didn't send it to the list as I had > intended. > > Although I have seen meteorites this ugly, I am thinking Korra Korrabes, I > don't believe that any of these are meteorites. They appear to be artifacts > of iron prossessing, ie. slag. > > Dan Wray > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Wichman" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:54 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Curious stones? > > >> Hey all, >> >> This is not a "is this a meteorite?" question >> >> I've been going through cleaning out some boxes of NWA XXX meteorites and >> I found some meteorites I forgot I had. All these stones are very highly >> magenetic and snap hard to a neo mag. >> >> PHOTOS: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/odd-stones.htm >> >> The two broken and sliced pieces appear to be mesosiderite, and I have 5 >> other pieces that are 100% positive to be meso from this batch that I have >> sliced and or sanded. >> >> Anyone have any information on these pieces or seen any other meteorites >> like them? Send me a link, information or photos if you do...The odd part >> about the sliced and broken pieces are the hollow interiors of some of the >> stones. I have reservations on some of these pieces about their meteoric >> origin but there are some in this batch that are 100% mesosiderite. >> >> What causes this? And if it's oxidation/corrosion why are they corroding >> form the inside out? >> >> Eric >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au Thu Jan 8 02:25:17 2009 From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 17:25:17 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] QMIG uppdate Message-ID: <96D91D45F9E6404499862BAD1A8DF383@your0a700f0aaf> Listoids QMIG update http://www.qmig.org I snuck over to Queensland Museum to take some new photographs to share with youse The new photographs are of meteorites that youse have never seen before except for the earlier not as nice photos of Glenormiston which have now been retired I'm particularly impressed with the new Glenormiston photos.. Lots more than that tho in the update I'll update other webpages I have never been too happy with once I centralise the QMIG collection and find some time and space to fixee fixee them Its back to work on 27 Jan after 6 weeks of holidays - damnit - and QMIG has its second birthday on 15 Jan 09 Cheers From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Thu Jan 8 09:10:17 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 14:10:17 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange lights in the sky and damage on the ground in UK Message-ID: <20090108141017.IKKBU.403055.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi All, An interesting report here...I will try and find out more...has possibilities! Another 'hammer'? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4174333/Wind-turbine-destroyed-after-octopus-UFO-seen-in-sky.html Probably no connection as this account perhaps shows...temps got down to -12c over the past few days so that might have been connected...dramatic video of a wind turbine failing though. http://www.louthleader.co.uk/news/UPDATE-PLUS-VIDEO-FOOTAGE-Tentacle.4847433.jp Graham Ensor, Uk From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Thu Jan 8 09:40:17 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 14:40:17 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on the lights and damage in UK Message-ID: <20090108144017.KKRLL.404053.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Explosion in sky now!!! London - A giant wind turbine in Britain has been wrecked after probably being hit by an Unidentified Flying Object (UFO), the Sun newspaper reported Thursday. Locals living near the wind farm in Lincolnshire, in the east of England, reported seeing "strange lights" streaking towards the tall generator during the night on Sunday. One of its three giant blades came off completely and another was left twisted and severely damaged, said the Sun. While UFO experts said they were "excited" by the incident, investigators told the BBC that they were working at other possible theories to explain the "unique incident." These included lightning, ice falling from an aircraft and material fatigue. Dorothy Willows, who lives near the town of Louth where the incident took place, told the Sun: "The lights were moving across the sky towards the wind farm. Then I saw a low flying object. It was skimming across the sky towards the turbines." Another witness reported a "giant explosion in the air." John Harrison, a local man, had yet another observation. He reported seeing a "massive ball of light with tentacles going right down to the ground" over the wind farm. "It was huge. With the tentacles it looked just like an octopus," Harrison told the Sun. The Ministry of Defence in London said: "Unless there is evidence of a potential threat, there is no attempt to identify the nature of each sighting." From almitt at kconline.com Thu Jan 8 09:45:44 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitterling) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 09:45:44 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on the lights and damage in UK In-Reply-To: <20090108144017.KKRLL.404053.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> References: <20090108144017.KKRLL.404053.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Message-ID: <8AFFB2D165CA4574B3B630C6BDFA5041@StarmanPC> Greetings, The Martian Chronicles have returned!! Good film. --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:40 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] More on the lights and damage in UK > Explosion in sky now!!! > > London - A giant wind turbine in Britain has been wrecked after probably > being hit by an Unidentified Flying Object (UFO), the Sun newspaper > reported Thursday. > > Locals living near the wind farm in Lincolnshire, in the east of England, > reported seeing "strange lights" streaking towards the tall generator > during the night on Sunday. > > One of its three giant blades came off completely and another was left > twisted and severely damaged, said the Sun. > > While UFO experts said they were "excited" by the incident, investigators > told the BBC that they were working at other possible theories to explain > the "unique incident." > > These included lightning, ice falling from an aircraft and material > fatigue. > > Dorothy Willows, who lives near the town of Louth where the incident took > place, told the Sun: "The lights were moving across the sky towards the > wind farm. Then I saw a low flying object. It was skimming across the sky > towards the turbines." > > Another witness reported a "giant explosion in the air." > > John Harrison, a local man, had yet another observation. He reported > seeing a "massive ball of light with tentacles going right down to the > ground" over the wind farm. > > "It was huge. With the tentacles it looked just like an octopus," Harrison > told the Sun. > > The Ministry of Defence in London said: "Unless there is evidence of a > potential threat, there is no attempt to identify the nature of each > sighting." > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Thu Jan 8 09:49:42 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 14:49:42 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another report on Uk lights and damage..amusing! Message-ID: <20090108144942.6N8AJ.404374.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/ufos/article2108149.ece From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Thu Jan 8 09:51:52 2009 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 14:51:52 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on the lights and damage in UK In-Reply-To: <20090108144017.KKRLL.404053.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> References: <20090108144017.KKRLL.404053.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C494687F9@gamma.ssl.atw> It's obviously just a blade failure, this is quite common in wind turbines particularly certain makes. If a UFO had hit it there would be more than one blade broken off, think about it, these things spin very fast with a lot of torque, the whole lot would shear if the bade set was stopped due to hitting an object. Notice how one blade is broken, the other is bent and the other hardly touched, exactly what would happen if one blade broke (due to the record cold weather we've had recently) and collided and hit the other blade, this means one blade failed leading to the damage. So an eight legged ET did not do it, it was like all the other wind turbine failures, i.e structural! Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Sent: 08 January 2009 14:40 To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] More on the lights and damage in UK Explosion in sky now!!! London - A giant wind turbine in Britain has been wrecked after probably being hit by an Unidentified Flying Object (UFO), the Sun newspaper reported Thursday. Locals living near the wind farm in Lincolnshire, in the east of England, reported seeing "strange lights" streaking towards the tall generator during the night on Sunday. One of its three giant blades came off completely and another was left twisted and severely damaged, said the Sun. While UFO experts said they were "excited" by the incident, investigators told the BBC that they were working at other possible theories to explain the "unique incident." These included lightning, ice falling from an aircraft and material fatigue. Dorothy Willows, who lives near the town of Louth where the incident took place, told the Sun: "The lights were moving across the sky towards the wind farm. Then I saw a low flying object. It was skimming across the sky towards the turbines." Another witness reported a "giant explosion in the air." John Harrison, a local man, had yet another observation. He reported seeing a "massive ball of light with tentacles going right down to the ground" over the wind farm. "It was huge. With the tentacles it looked just like an octopus," Harrison told the Sun. The Ministry of Defence in London said: "Unless there is evidence of a potential threat, there is no attempt to identify the nature of each sighting." ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From bristolia at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 10:03:04 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 07:03:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Inverted Paleochannels of Mars Message-ID: <711148.49013.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> PDF files of papers discussing inverted fluvial channels on Mars and terrestrial analogs in Utah are available online. They are: Chidsey, T. C., Jr., R. E. M. Williams, and D. E. Eby, 2008, Ancient Exhumed River Channels of the Morrison and Cedar Mtn Formations. Utah Geological Survey Notes. vol. 40, no. 3, pp. 1-4. http://geology.utah.gov/surveynotes/snt40-3.pdf Williams, R. E. M., T. C. Chidsey, Jr., and D. E. Eby, 2007, Exhumed Paleochannels in Central Utah?Analogs for Raised Curvilinear Features on Mars. in G. C. Willis, M. D. Hylland, D. L. Clark, and T. C. Chidsey, eds., Central Utah?Diverse Geology of a Dynamic Landscape. Utah Geological Association Publication no. 26. Salt Lake City, Utah. http://www.psi.edu/reports/2007/williamspics/Williams07_UGA36.pdf The Utah inverted paleochannels can be seen readily on Google Earth. The coordinates for one prominent set of them is: 38?52'32.42"N, 110?16'15.38"W Yours, Paul H. From moutinho at bol.com.br Thu Jan 8 11:25:13 2009 From: moutinho at bol.com.br (=?utf-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Moutinho?=) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 14:25:13 -0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] teste Message-ID: <496628e9e5f5d_2e1155555587eb4142d@winter29.tmail> teste From paul at meteorite.com Thu Jan 8 11:40:50 2009 From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:40:50 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] January Meteorite-Times now up! Message-ID: <49662C92.5080405@meteorite.com> Hello Everyone, The January issue of Meteorite-Times is now up. http://www.meteorite-times.com/ Enjoy! Paul and Jim From arnaudmignan at hotmail.com Thu Jan 8 12:21:18 2009 From: arnaudmignan at hotmail.com (Arnaud Mignan) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 18:21:18 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Camel Donga, Lost City, St Michel, Suizhou and many others Message-ID: Dear list, I have a few meteorites from my collection for sell (trades are also possible): Camel Donga, individual of 7.10g with myriad of flowlines -248EUR Carancas, fragment of 1.52g with slickenside - 100EUR Gao, individual of 6.04g with roll-over rim - 48EUR Lost City, part slice of 0.42g with FC (+copy of Jim Schwade Coll. label) - 126EUR Mount Tazerzait, large fragment of 89g - 356EUR Oum Dreya, lot of 2 individuals (~20g & 5.6g) - 153EUR Ourique, fragment of 9.22g with FC - 147EUR Portales Valley, full slice of 80g - 1,000EUR Sikhote Alin, lot of 2 perfectly oriented individuals "The Arrow & the Shield" (20g & 21.3g) + block of 4 stamps (2 by 2) - 250EUR Stalldalen, full slice of 1.25g - 75EUR St Michel, fragment of 16.33g with FC (from Helsinki Museum) - 408EUR Suizhou, fragment of 26.0g with FC - 208EUR Viedma, full slice of 132g - 462EUR Wellman (c), lot of 1 individual (13.0g, Cornelius Coll. with vintage index card & painted number) & 1 part slice (10.67g, Huss painted number H39.577) - 165EUR Wiluna, individual of 3.6g - 36EUR Pictures available under request Happy New Year ArnaudM _________________________________________________________________ Email envoy? avec Windows Live Hotmail. Dites adieux aux spam et virus, passez ? Hotmail?! C'est gratuit ! http://www.windowslive.fr/hotmail/default.asp From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 12:56:41 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 09:56:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] open message to tucson sellers Message-ID: <105030.47624.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.I am wondering about sellers in tucson.Will most of the sellers who will be in tucson this year be accepting credit cards for transactions?Like if I want to buy something,will most usa and non usa sellers accept most credit cards?That will be the payment method for most of my buyings so I am just making sure. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From geoking at notkin.net Thu Jan 8 13:04:47 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:04:47 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] January Edition of "Meteorwritings" is Online Message-ID: Dear Listees: Greetings from Tucson where we are in countdown mode to the gem show. I'll be open in just about three weeks, and will be looking forward to seeing many friends and familiar faces here. The January edition of my monthly column, "Meteorwritings" is now online at Geology.com: http://geology.com/ -- or -- http://geology.com/meteorites/impactites.shtml This month we look at impactites -- a subject near and dear to many of you, I know : ) We took a series of new photos for the article, including impact breccias from Alamo and Popigai, outstanding Libyan Desert Glass specimens, moldavite, etc., and there are field photos from the Santa Fe shatter cone site, Siberia and Alamo. I hope you enjoy them. As always, comments and feedback are most welcome. Sincerely, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org We DIG Space Rocks? From geoking at notkin.net Thu Jan 8 13:23:02 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:23:02 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] open message to tucson sellers In-Reply-To: <105030.47624.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <105030.47624.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Chicago Steve posted: > will most usa and non usa sellers accept most credit cards? Dear Steve: Your question reminds me of something funny that happened to me at the '08 show. I took an afternoon off from the showroom and went touring around with my friend Kim. It was her first gem show and she's a very glamorous, model type lady. She was all dolled up and looking like she should be on the cover of "Vogue," so of course I immediately took her to the seediest part of the show. We went to see an independent group of Moroccans on Oracle Road and Kim was very taken by the offerings of an African gentleman who was set up alongside them selling wood carvings, blankets, drums, etc. Kim picked out a bunch of things for presents and so on -- about a hundred bucks worth of stuff. The vendor wrapped them all up very carefully, and with great attention to detail, and when it came time to pay, Kim pulled out her Visa card and slapped it on the table. The poor guy was pretty baffled. He hardly spoke any English, was set up under a tarpaulin in a vacant lot across from the rundown Executive Inn, and didn't even have electricity. So, no, he didn't take credit cards. We managed to sort it out with cash in the end, but it's a good idea to remember that a lot of the smaller, independent dealers only take cash or checks. That being said, yes, I accept Visa, MasterCard and Discover so stop by Room 230 at the InnSuites with your credit cards and we'll happily max them out for you : ) See you in a few weeks. Geoff N. www.aerolite.org From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 13:55:42 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:55:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa 5000 Update/Inaugural Viewing R.O.M.! Message-ID: <301733.62915.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List members: A lot of you have been asking about the disposition of Northwest Africa 5000. The main mass is currently on display at the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto, Canada. I encourage anybody who will be in the area to see this world class meteorite collection. I want thank the museum for doing a wonderful job of announcing and presenting Northwest Africa 5000 in a proper environment. They did an outstanding job! Images: Northwest Africa 5000 in its own display for the public inaugural viewing at the Royal Ontario Museum: http://themeteoritesite.com/ROM-1.jpg Another view with Dr. Irving present: http://themeteoritesite.com/ROM-2.jpg Close-up of Main Mass: http://themeteoritesite.com/ROM-3.jpg Fantastic display case explaining how lunar meteorites make it to Earth (Note: NWA5000 in front): http://themeteoritesite.com/ROM-4.jpg Partial view of the Royal Ontario Museum's world class meteorite collection: http://themeteoritesite.com/ROM-5.jpg NWA 3163 on interpretive monitor system, a permanent part of the Royal Ontario Meteorite collection: http://themeteoritesite.com/ROM-6.jpg Royal Ontario Museum Press Release: http://www.rom.on.ca/news/releases/public.php?mediakey=lf3mjmmzij Here are a few articles on Northwest Africa 5000: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/theampersand/archive/2008/12/16/rom-drops-surprise-moon-rock-on-toronto.aspx http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/12/17/rom-offers-a-sneak-peek-of-an-empty-case.aspx http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Page/document/v5/content/subscribe?user_URL=http://www.theglobeandmail.com%2Fservlet%2Fstory%2FLAC.20081218.MOON18%2FTPStory%2FEntertainment&ord=2015935&brand=theglobeandmail&force_login=true http://www.thevarsity.ca/article/6367 http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1355463 http://www.thestar.com/Entertainment/article/563111 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081218.LISTINGS18/TPStory/Entertainment I hope some of you can make it to this inaugural display. There are several other planetary main masses on permanent display that are definitely worth checking out. The Royal Ontario Museum's Meteorite Collection is among the world's finest! Best Regards, Adam From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 14:22:36 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:22:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: Calico Rock, rare Hexahedrite Message-ID: <446956.83945.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, I have listed on my website some specimens of the very rare Calico Rock Arkansas Hexahedrite. There is virtually none of this small meteorite in private hands, a few hundred grams if that. I bought a piece from the Oriti collection, and had it cut up with a wire saw (extremely expensive undertaking). Mirko in Germany did the polishing and etching, and I think you will all agree, that he is unsurpassed in that skill. http://www.meteoriteguy.com/catalog/Calico-Rock.htm I have also deleted almost all sold pieces from my private collection page and begin rebuilding, adding many new pieces, like Bruderheim and Tazewell. I will be slowly rebuilding that page, as I have hundreds of collection pieces, what I don't have much of these days is time! Tucson is almost here, come see us, we will have some spectacular new items, debuting at the show. We take pay-pal payments, so yes, credit cards accepted. Michael Farmer From paul at meteorite.com Thu Jan 8 14:25:02 2009 From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 11:25:02 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] January Meteorite-Times - Preserving Meteorites article fixed In-Reply-To: <49662C92.5080405@meteorite.com> References: <49662C92.5080405@meteorite.com> Message-ID: <4966530E.8080300@meteorite.com> Dear List, There was a problem with Microsoft's IE browser not showing pictures in the *Guest Article 'Preserving meteorite slices in home-made glass mountings' *by Gregory E Carr. This has been corrected so if you have already read the article and did not see any pictures please have a look again. The problem was caused during the conversion of a Microsoft Word document into an HTML document. A BIG thank you to Phil Morgan for alerting me and also supplying his browser info as I use Firefox and the images were displaying fine. http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm Thank you, Paul Paul Harris wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > The January issue of Meteorite-Times is now up. > http://www.meteorite-times.com/ > > Enjoy! > > Paul and Jim > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jan 8 15:25:18 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:25:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - January 7, 2009 Message-ID: <200901082025.MAA02710@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES January 7, 2009 o Flow Present Near the Central Peak of Moreux Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_010695_2225 o Sapping Channel Originating from a Fissure http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_010689_2025 o Braided Channels West of Hecates Tholus http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_010678_2135 o Gullies on the Dunes of Russell Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_010446_1255 o Fan at Valley Mouth http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_010434_1575 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jan 8 15:28:55 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:28:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] How Martian Winds Make Rocks Walk Message-ID: <200901082028.MAA03892@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> How Martian Winds Make Rocks Walk (sent by Mari N. Jensen, The University of Arizona, 520-626-9635, mnjensen at email.arizona.edu) -- Thursday, January 8, 2009 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Researcher contact information is at the end of this release. Images: available to logged-in reporters on Eurekalert or from the researcher ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Rocks on Mars are on the move, rolling into the wind and forming organized patterns, according to new research. The new finding counters the previous explanation of the evenly spaced arrangement of small rocks on Mars. That explanation suggested the rocks were picked up and carried downwind by extreme high-speed winds thought to occur on Mars in the past. Images taken by the Mars Exploration Rover Spirit show small rocks regularly spaced about 5 to 7 centimeters apart on the intercrater plains between Lahontan Crater and the Columbia Hills. Although Mars is a windy planet, it would be difficult for the wind to carry the small rocks, which range in size from a quarter to a softball, said Jon D. Pelletier, associate professor of geosciences at The University of Arizona in Tucson. Pelletier and his colleagues suggest that wind blows sand away from the front of the rock, creating a pit, and then deposits that sand behind the rock, creating a hill. The rock then rolls forward into the pit, moving into the wind, he said. As long as the wind continues to blow, the process is repeated and the rocks move forward. This explanation does not require extreme winds, Pelletier said. "You get this happening five, 10, 20 times then you start to really move these things around," he said. "They can move many times their diameter." The process is nearly the same with a cluster of rocks. However, with a cluster of rocks, those in the front of the group shield those in the middle or on the edges from the wind, Pelletier said. Because the middle and outer rocks are not directly hit by the wind, the wind creates pits to the sides of those rocks. Therefore, they roll to the side, not directly into the wind, and the cluster begins to spread out. Pelletier, Andrew L. Leier of the University of Calgary in Alberta, Canada, and James R. Steidtmann of the University of Wyoming in Laramie report their findings in the paper, "Wind-Driven Reorganization of Coarse Clasts on the Surface of Mars." The paper is in the January issue of the journal Geology. When Leier was a graduate student at the UA, he told Pelletier about an experiment on the upwind migration of rocks that Steidtmann, Leier's thesis advisor, had conducted. Steidtmann had studied upwind migration about 30 years ago. He used a wind tunnel to see how pebbles on sand moved in the wind. Steidtmann's research showed that the rocks moved upwind and that over time, a regular pattern emerged. Pelletier wasn't sure how he could use the idea. Some time later, while attending a lecture that showed pictures of uniformly organized rocks on Mars, Pelletier recalled his conversations with Leier about Steidtmann's experiments -- and it all came together. To investigate the regular patterns of the rocks on Mars, Pelletier combined three standard numerical computer models. The first modeled air flow, the second modeled erosion and deposition of sand and the third modeled the rocks' movement, he said. "We can model it on the computer to try to get a better sense of what's actually happening and to provide another sort of documentation or justification for the idea," he said. Pelletier was the first to combine the three standard models and apply them to this new problem. He also conducted what is known as a Monte Carlo simulation, which applies his combination numerical model over and over to a random pattern of rocks to see how the rocks ultimately end up. Pelletier ran the simulation 1,000 times. The rocks ended up into a regular pattern 90 percent of the time, he said. As an independent verification, he also compared the pattern predicted by the numerical model to the distances between each rock and its nearest neighbor in the Mars images. The patterns of the Martian rocks matched what the model predicted. Pelletier said upwind migration of rocks also occurs on Earth. Co-author Leier wrote in an e-mail, "Something as seemingly mundane as the distribution of rocks on a sandy, wind-blown surface can actually be used to tell us a lot about how wind-related processes operate on a place as familiar as the Earth and as alien as Mars." However, because plants and animals can alter wind patterns and rearrange rocks, it is much more difficult to study this process on Earth, Pelletier said. Of Mars' mysterious walking rocks, he said, "This is a neat problem, but there are bigger fish to fry." Pelletier plans to apply the same numerical models to larger features on Mars such as sand dunes and wind-sculpted valleys and ridges called "yardangs." He said understanding the climate history of other planets and where those climates went awry can help in understanding our own climate system. This release was written by University of Arizona NASA Space Grant Intern Megan Levardo. Researcher Contact Information: Jon D. Pelletier (520) 626-2126 jdpellet at email.arizona.edu Related Web sites: Jon D. Pelletier http://geomorphology.geo.arizona.edu/ NASA Mars Exploration Rover Mission http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/home/index.html # # # # # From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jan 8 15:34:19 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:34:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Catalina Sky Survey Sets New Record for NEO Discoveries, Receives Funding Through 2012 Message-ID: <200901082034.MAA05173@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> FROM: Johnny Cruz (520-621-1879; cruzj at email.arizona.edu) January 8, 2009 Catalina Sky Survey Sets New Record for NEO Discoveries, Receives Funding Through 2012 The University of Arizona's Catalina Sky Survey has been awarded a $3.16 million NASA grant to continue its search for near-Earth objects, or NEOs, through 2012. Under the direction of Stephen M. Larson of the UA's Lunar and Planetary Laboratory, the survey, known as CSS, has discovered about 70 percent of all NEOs found in past three years. CSS tallied 565 NEO discoveries in 2008, which broke its record-setting number of 460 NEO discoveries in 2007. Thanks to an additional $250,000 NASA grant, which was matched by private donations, the survey is now positioning itself to become even more productive. CSS is about to open a new high-speed communications link and begin operating another telescope, a 1-meter, or 40-inch, telescope that is being refurbished with a new mirror and new software. It will be housed in a new 22-foot dome that was constructed next to the UA's 1.5 meter, or 60-inch, Mount Lemmon telescope north of Tucson. The refurbished, automated telescope "represents a huge increase in potential survey productivity," said CSS co-investigator Ed Beshore, who is principal investigator on the $3.16 million NASA grant. The telescope, which will be operational this summer, will be used to quickly follow up NEO discoveries, increasing the team's surveying time on other telescopes by 20 to 25 percent. CSS will hire undergraduate students as follow-up coordinators, Beshore added. Students will be able to access the previous night's observing data from their desks on campus the following morning, thanks to the improved communications link to the mountain observatory. Beshore has been working to install a microwave broadband link that will connect Mount Lemmon to Mount Bigelow, and Mount Bigelow to the roof of Steward Observatory on campus 22 miles away. The CSS team takes about 20 gigabytes of data with each one of its telescopes per night. Increasing Internet throughput by a factor of 50 will not only permit CSS to move their data to campus more easily, but also provide improved access to the Internet for all researchers using telescopes in the Santa Catalina Mountains. CSS is the only NEO survey that covers both Northern and Southern hemispheres. Six observers use the UA's 1.5 meter, or 60-inch, reflector telescope at Steward Observatory's Mount Lemmon site and the 0.7 meter, or 28-inch, Schmidt telescope on Mount Bigelow in the Santa Catalina Mountains north of Tucson. Two observers use Australian National University's 0.5 meter, or 20-inch, Uppsala Schmidt telescope at Siding Spring, New South Wales, Australia. NASA began funding the Catalina Sky Survey in 1998 as part of the 10-year, congressionally mandated national Spaceguard program to detect, track, catalog and characterize potentially hazardous asteroids and comets that could approach the Earth. The goal has been to locate at least 90 percent of Earth-approaching objects at or larger than one kilometer in diameter, or about two-thirds of a mile, by the end of the decade. "We're about 85 percent there," Larson said. Objects one-third kilometer in diameter, or roughly 1,000 feet across, would explode with 24 times the energy of the world's largest thermonuclear bomb explosion, a 58-megaton Soviet bomb exploded in 1961, in an impact with Earth. In 2005, Congress further mandated NASA to identify and assess potentially hazardous near-Earth asteroids and comets 140 meters in diameter, or 500 feet across. Earth impacts by 140-meter objects occur only once every several thousand years, Larson said, but they would be powerful enough to wipe out cities. "A key point of our survey is that we do nearly real-time analysis of the objects which we think may be NEOs," Larson said. That being the case, "We can get more observations per night, extend the object's observed orbital arc to better establish whether it is a near-Earth object, then alert others to get more follow-up observations." The CSS team proved the power of their technique early last October, when CSS observer Richard Kowalski on Mount Lemmon discovered Asteroid 2008 TC3, an object only about 6 feet across that entered Earth's atmosphere and disintegrated over Sudan. Such small impact events occur several times a year around the globe. But this is the first time scientists discovered an asteroid before it reached Earth and predicted when and where the impact would be. CSS immediately alerted scientists at the Minor Planet Center in Cambridge, Mass., and NASA's Near Earth Object Program in Pasadena, Calif., who were able to calculate the asteroid would hit Earth's atmosphere over the Sudan 19 hours after Kowalski spotted it. "There's a bit of a misperception that what we do is find objects that are incoming, like the Sudan object," Larson said. "That's not the case." "We're hoping to find objects that many orbits down the road might be hazardous, so that we have enough time to do something about them," he said. "We can calculate orbits quite accurately. We hope that we would have a few decades to study and characterize these things, and come up with the best plans to nudge them into another orbit so that it misses the Earth." As of January 2, 2009, according to scientists with NASA's Near Earth Object Program, observers had discovered 5,955 NEOS, including 763 asteroids at least 1 kilometer in diameter. So far, 1,008 NEOs larger than 140 meters have been found that come within 4.5 million miles of the Earth's orbit and are thus classified as potentially hazardous objects because they may be perturbed into impacting trajectories in the future. CONTACTS: Ed Beshore (520-621-4900; ebeshore at lpl.arizona.edu) Steve Larson (520-621-4973; slarson at lpl.arizona.edu ) VIDEO: http://uanews.org/node/23269 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jan 8 15:55:56 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:55:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Half-baked Asteroids Have Earth-like Crust Message-ID: <200901082055.MAA07649@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://esciencenews.com/articles/2009/01/07/half.baked.asteroids.have.earth.crust Half-baked asteroids have Earth-like crust e! Science News January 7, 2009 [Image] Field image of the achondrite meteorite GRA 06129, found in blue ice of the Graves Nunatak region of the Antarctica during the ANSMET 2006/2007 field-season. GRA 06129 and its pair, GRA 06128, are achondrite meteorites with compositions unlike any previously discovered Solar System materials. Image courtesy of the Antarctic Search for Meteorites (PI - Ralph Harvey, Case Western Reserve University) Asteroids are hunks of rock that orbit in the outer reaches of space, and scientists have generally assumed that their small size limited the types of rock that could form in their crusts. But two newly discovered meteorites may rewrite the book on how some asteroids form and evolve. Researchers from the Carnegie Institution, the University of Maryland, and the University of Tennessee report in the January 8th edition of Nature that these meteorites are ancient asteroid fragments consisting of feldspar-rich rock called andesite. Similar rocks were previously known only from Earth, making these samples the first of their kind from elsewhere in the Solar System. The two meteorites were discovered during the Antarctic Search for Meteorites (ANSMET) 2006/2007 field season in a region of the Antarctic ice known as the Graves Nunatak icefield. The light-colored meteorites, designated GRA 06128 and GRA 06129, were immediately recognized as being different from previously known meteorites. "What is most unusual about these rocks is that they have compositions similar to Earth's andesite continental crust - what makes up the ground beneath our feet," says University of Maryland's James Day, lead author of the study. "No meteorites like this have ever been seen before." Andesite is an igneous rock common on Earth in areas where colliding tectonic plates generate volcanoes, such as those of the Andes mountain range. The meteorites contain minerals thought to require large-scale processes such as plate tectonics to concentrate the right chemical ingredients. In view of this, some researchers had suggested that the meteorites were fragments of a planet or the Moon, not an asteroid. But analysis of the meteorites' oxygen isotopes at the Carnegie Institution's Geophysical Laboratory by Douglas Rumble ruled out that possibility. "A number of solar system objects including parent bodies of meteorites, planets, moons, and asteroids have their own oxygen isotope signatures," says Rumble. "Just by analyzing 16O-17O-18O ratios we can tell if a meteorite came from Mars, from the Moon, or from a particular asteroid. One extensively studied parent is the asteroid 4 Vesta. In the majority of cases the actual location of the parent body is unknown, but a particular group of meteorites may be assigned to the same parent body based on the isotope ratios even if the specific location of the body isn't known. When the ratios in meteorites are plotted against one another the result is mutually parallel lines offset from one another. The GRA 06128 and GRA 06129 meteorites, and some similar ones called brachinites, plot below Earth-Moon rocks and are nearly coincident with meteorites from 4 Vesta." The meteorites' age, more than 4.5 billion years, suggests that they formed very soon after the birth of the solar system. This makes it unlikely that they came from the crust of a differentiated planet. The chemical signature of some rare precious metals, notably osmium, in the meteorites also points to their origin on an asteroid that was not fully differentiated. The researchers hypothesize that that the asteroid had a diameter somewhat larger than 100 kilometers, which would be sufficient to hold enough heat for the asteroid's rocks to partially, but not completely, melt. The asteroid would remain undifferentiated, but the melted portions could erupt on the asteroid's surface to form the andesitic crust. "Our work illustrates that the formation of planet-like andesite crust has occurred by processes other than plate tectonics on solar system bodies," says Day. "Ultimately this may shed light on how evolved crust forms on planets, including Earth, during the earliest stages of their birth." Source: Carnegie Institution From michael at spacerocksinc.com Thu Jan 8 17:10:33 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 14:10:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 8, 2009 Message-ID: <21547487.743991231452633717.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_8_2009.html From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jan 8 17:14:00 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 08 Jan 2009 22:14:00 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 8, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_8_2009.html No comment, ... saliva I feel you coming!!! Salivarily Yours, Bernd From Thetoprok at aol.com Thu Jan 8 20:22:05 2009 From: Thetoprok at aol.com (Thetoprok at aol.com) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:22:05 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - ebay stuff Ending Now.. going cheap! Message-ID: Hello Good People, Help fund another day in the field.. All proceeds to be used in the search for new meteorites! Auctions ending now. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZalienrockfarmQQfrppZ200QQfsopZ1QQfsooZ1QQrdZ0 Thanks, Larry IMCA # 1941 **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002) From grf2 at verizon.net Thu Jan 8 21:21:39 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:21:39 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] place to stay for Tuzson. Message-ID: Due to a serious illness in our family, Dawn's dad, we're going to have to cancel our planned trip to Tuzson. If anyone is interested, We had to give up our reservation [and $250 deposit] at NE Foothills Luxury Condo Single Family w/ 2 Bedrooms- 2 Bathrooms- Sleeps 4-6 w/ Pool Jacuzzi. The Balance is $940 [but you might be able to cut a deal on short notice]. Reservations were from Feb 3 to Feb9 [but again, you probably can extend that end date] Call Dick Breen at cell, 218-820-3170 Tell him you got word from me on the Met List. I get nothing out of this, except a little relief from guilt of cancelling on short notice. The property can be viewed at Vacation Rentals.Com Tuzson Arizona Vacation Rentals Presents Listing #21269 email me with any questions Thanks. Jerry Flaherty From grf2 at verizon.net Thu Jan 8 21:29:04 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:29:04 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] How Martian Winds Make Rocks Walk References: <200901082028.MAA03892@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <934223F4F977411EB429CEAFF5594909@ASUS> Reminds me of a scietific "mystery" on one of the TV channels months ago depicting wind driven rocks. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Baalke" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 3:28 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] How Martian Winds Make Rocks Walk > > > How Martian Winds Make Rocks Walk > (sent by Mari N. Jensen, The University of Arizona, 520-626-9635, > mnjensen at email.arizona.edu) > > -- Thursday, January 8, 2009 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Researcher contact information is at the end of this release. > Images: available to logged-in reporters on Eurekalert or from the > researcher > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Rocks on Mars are on the move, rolling into the wind and forming organized > patterns, according to new research. > > The new finding counters the previous explanation of the evenly spaced > arrangement of small rocks on Mars. That explanation suggested the rocks > were picked up and carried downwind by extreme high-speed winds thought to > occur on Mars in the past. > > Images taken by the Mars Exploration Rover Spirit show small rocks > regularly > spaced about 5 to 7 centimeters apart on the intercrater plains between > Lahontan Crater and the Columbia Hills. > > Although Mars is a windy planet, it would be difficult for the wind to > carry > the small rocks, which range in size from a quarter to a softball, said > Jon > D. Pelletier, associate professor of geosciences at The University of > Arizona in Tucson. > > Pelletier and his colleagues suggest that wind blows sand away from the > front of the rock, creating a pit, and then deposits that sand behind the > rock, creating a hill. > > The rock then rolls forward into the pit, moving into the wind, he said. > > As long as the wind continues to blow, the process is repeated and the > rocks > move forward. > > This explanation does not require extreme winds, Pelletier said. > > "You get this happening five, 10, 20 times then you start to really move > these things around," he said. "They can move many times their diameter." > > The process is nearly the same with a cluster of rocks. > > However, with a cluster of rocks, those in the front of the group shield > those in the middle or on the edges from the wind, Pelletier said. > > Because the middle and outer rocks are not directly hit by the wind, the > wind creates pits to the sides of those rocks. Therefore, they roll to the > side, not directly into the wind, and the cluster begins to spread out. > > Pelletier, Andrew L. Leier of the University of Calgary in Alberta, > Canada, > and James R. Steidtmann of the University of Wyoming in Laramie report > their > findings in the paper, "Wind-Driven Reorganization of Coarse Clasts on the > Surface of Mars." The paper is in the January issue of the journal > Geology. > > When Leier was a graduate student at the UA, he told Pelletier about an > experiment on the upwind migration of rocks that Steidtmann, Leier's > thesis > advisor, had conducted. > > Steidtmann had studied upwind migration about 30 years ago. He used a wind > tunnel to see how pebbles on sand moved in the wind. Steidtmann's research > showed that the rocks moved upwind and that over time, a regular pattern > emerged. > > Pelletier wasn't sure how he could use the idea. > > Some time later, while attending a lecture that showed pictures of > uniformly > organized rocks on Mars, Pelletier recalled his conversations with Leier > about Steidtmann's experiments -- and it all came together. > > To investigate the regular patterns of the rocks on Mars, Pelletier > combined > three standard numerical computer models. The first modeled air flow, the > second modeled erosion and deposition of sand and the third modeled the > rocks' movement, he said. > > "We can model it on the computer to try to get a better sense of what's > actually happening and to provide another sort of documentation or > justification for the idea," he said. > > Pelletier was the first to combine the three standard models and apply > them > to this new problem. > > He also conducted what is known as a Monte Carlo simulation, which applies > his combination numerical model over and over to a random pattern of rocks > to see how the rocks ultimately end up. > > Pelletier ran the simulation 1,000 times. The rocks ended up into a > regular > pattern 90 percent of the time, he said. > > As an independent verification, he also compared the pattern predicted by > the numerical model to the distances between each rock and its nearest > neighbor in the Mars images. The patterns of the Martian rocks matched > what > the model predicted. > > Pelletier said upwind migration of rocks also occurs on Earth. > > Co-author Leier wrote in an e-mail, "Something as seemingly mundane as the > distribution of rocks on a sandy, wind-blown surface can actually be used > to > tell us a lot about how wind-related processes operate on a place as > familiar as the Earth and as alien as Mars." > > However, because plants and animals can alter wind patterns and rearrange > rocks, it is much more difficult to study this process on Earth, Pelletier > said. > > Of Mars' mysterious walking rocks, he said, "This is a neat problem, but > there are bigger fish to fry." > > Pelletier plans to apply the same numerical models to larger features on > Mars such as sand dunes and wind-sculpted valleys and ridges called > "yardangs." > > He said understanding the climate history of other planets and where those > climates went awry can help in understanding our own climate system. > > This release was written by University of Arizona NASA Space Grant Intern > Megan Levardo. > > Researcher Contact Information: > Jon D. Pelletier > (520) 626-2126 > jdpellet at email.arizona.edu > > > Related Web sites: > Jon D. Pelletier > http://geomorphology.geo.arizona.edu/ > > NASA Mars Exploration Rover Mission > http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/home/index.html > > # # # # # > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From grf2 at verizon.net Thu Jan 8 21:36:05 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:36:05 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Half-baked Asteroids Have Earth-like Crust References: <200901082055.MAA07649@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <7E19E84F916841A0951CBDAA9569ACE8@ASUS> WOW Andesite is a complex vocanic "paste" associated with seafloor sediment and H2O responsible for catastrophic explosive activity in earth's geology. It's wild to find it on astroids. They've got to be "humugous"!!!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Baalke" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 3:55 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Half-baked Asteroids Have Earth-like Crust > > http://esciencenews.com/articles/2009/01/07/half.baked.asteroids.have.earth.crust > > Half-baked asteroids have Earth-like crust > e! Science News > January 7, 2009 > > [Image] > Field image of the achondrite meteorite GRA 06129, found in blue ice of > the Graves Nunatak region of the Antarctica during the ANSMET 2006/2007 > field-season. GRA 06129 and its pair, GRA 06128, are achondrite > meteorites with compositions unlike any previously discovered Solar > System materials. > > Image courtesy of the Antarctic Search for Meteorites (PI - Ralph > Harvey, Case Western Reserve University) > > Asteroids are hunks of rock that orbit in the outer reaches of space, > and scientists have generally assumed that their small size limited the > types of rock that could form in their crusts. But two newly discovered > meteorites may rewrite the book on how some asteroids form and evolve. > Researchers from the Carnegie Institution, the University of Maryland, > and the University of Tennessee report in the January 8th edition of > Nature that these meteorites are ancient asteroid fragments consisting > of feldspar-rich rock called andesite. Similar rocks were previously > known only from Earth, making these samples the first of their kind from > elsewhere in the Solar System. The two meteorites were discovered during > the Antarctic Search for Meteorites (ANSMET) 2006/2007 field season in a > region of the Antarctic ice known as the Graves Nunatak icefield. The > light-colored meteorites, designated GRA 06128 and GRA 06129, were > immediately recognized as being different from previously known > meteorites. > > "What is most unusual about these rocks is that they have compositions > similar to Earth's andesite continental crust - what makes up the ground > beneath our feet," says University of Maryland's James Day, lead author > of the study. "No meteorites like this have ever been seen before." > > Andesite is an igneous rock common on Earth in areas where colliding > tectonic plates generate volcanoes, such as those of the Andes mountain > range. The meteorites contain minerals thought to require large-scale > processes such as plate tectonics to concentrate the right chemical > ingredients. In view of this, some researchers had suggested that the > meteorites were fragments of a planet or the Moon, not an asteroid. But > analysis of the meteorites' oxygen isotopes at the Carnegie > Institution's Geophysical Laboratory by Douglas Rumble ruled out that > possibility. > > "A number of solar system objects including parent bodies of meteorites, > planets, moons, and asteroids have their own oxygen isotope signatures," > says Rumble. "Just by analyzing 16O-17O-18O ratios we can tell if a > meteorite came from Mars, from the Moon, or from a particular asteroid. > One extensively studied parent is the asteroid 4 Vesta. In the majority > of cases the actual location of the parent body is unknown, but a > particular group of meteorites may be assigned to the same parent body > based on the isotope ratios even if the specific location of the body > isn't known. When the ratios in meteorites are plotted against one > another the result is mutually parallel lines offset from one another. > The GRA 06128 and GRA 06129 meteorites, and some similar ones called > brachinites, plot below Earth-Moon rocks and are nearly coincident with > meteorites from 4 Vesta." > > The meteorites' age, more than 4.5 billion years, suggests that they > formed very soon after the birth of the solar system. This makes it > unlikely that they came from the crust of a differentiated planet. The > chemical signature of some rare precious metals, notably osmium, in the > meteorites also points to their origin on an asteroid that was not fully > differentiated. > > The researchers hypothesize that that the asteroid had a diameter > somewhat larger than 100 kilometers, which would be sufficient to hold > enough heat for the asteroid's rocks to partially, but not completely, > melt. The asteroid would remain undifferentiated, but the melted > portions could erupt on the asteroid's surface to form the andesitic > crust. > > "Our work illustrates that the formation of planet-like andesite crust > has occurred by processes other than plate tectonics on solar system > bodies," says Day. "Ultimately this may shed light on how evolved crust > forms on planets, including Earth, during the earliest stages of their > birth." > > Source: Carnegie Institution > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From grf2 at verizon.net Thu Jan 8 21:40:03 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:40:03 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 8, 2009 References: <21547487.743991231452633717.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: <841945C3169A40B19B7C6925515DB0BE@ASUS> Exquisit! marvelous preparation Mike! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Johnson" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 5:10 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 8, 2009 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_8_2009.html > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 8 22:17:44 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 22:17:44 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa 5000 Update/Inaugural Viewing R.O.M.! In-Reply-To: <301733.62915.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <301733.62915.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, Adam, and all, I had the pleasure of attending the museum last Tuesday the 6th. Being that close to a Lunar bigger than my head...AY CARAMBA! The glass panes are nice and close to the meteorite, kept clean, and very well lit, so even with my outdated 6 mp camera I was able to get some beauty close-up and very detailed shots, including the most sides of the outer crust. I'm looking forward to getting these pics on my Photoshop. If we were taking a poll of favourite stony matrixes, this one is my choice. Thanks, Adam and Greg, for sharing. This display is a good case in point of the benefit of private collectors and hunters to the public. Cheers, Pete ---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 10:55:42 -0800 > From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa 5000 Update/Inaugural Viewing R.O.M.! > > Dear List members: > > A lot of you have been asking about the disposition of Northwest Africa 5000. > > The main mass is currently on display at the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto, Canada. I encourage anybody who will be in the area to see this world class meteorite collection. I want thank the museum for doing a wonderful job of announcing and presenting Northwest Africa 5000 in a proper environment. They did an outstanding job! > > Images: > Northwest Africa 5000 in its own display for the public inaugural viewing at the Royal Ontario Museum: > http://themeteoritesite.com/ROM-1.jpg > Another view with Dr. Irving present: > http://themeteoritesite.com/ROM-2.jpg > Close-up of Main Mass: > http://themeteoritesite.com/ROM-3.jpg > Fantastic display case explaining how lunar meteorites make it to Earth (Note: NWA5000 in front): > http://themeteoritesite.com/ROM-4.jpg > Partial view of the Royal Ontario Museum's world class meteorite collection: > http://themeteoritesite.com/ROM-5.jpg > NWA 3163 on interpretive monitor system, a permanent part of the Royal Ontario Meteorite collection: > http://themeteoritesite.com/ROM-6.jpg > > Royal Ontario Museum Press Release: > http://www.rom.on.ca/news/releases/public.php?mediakey=lf3mjmmzij > > Here are a few articles on Northwest Africa 5000: > http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/theampersand/archive/2008/12/16/rom-drops-surprise-moon-rock-on-toronto.aspx > > http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2008/12/17/rom-offers-a-sneak-peek-of-an-empty-case.aspx > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/Page/document/v5/content/subscribe?user_URL=http://www.theglobeandmail.com%2Fservlet%2Fstory%2FLAC.20081218.MOON18%2FTPStory%2FEntertainment&ord=2015935&brand=theglobeandmail&force_login=true > > http://www.thevarsity.ca/article/6367 > > http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1355463 > > http://www.thestar.com/Entertainment/article/563111 > > http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20081218.LISTINGS18/TPStory/Entertainment > > > I hope some of you can make it to this inaugural display. There are several other planetary main masses on permanent display that are definitely worth checking out. The Royal Ontario Museum's Meteorite Collection is among the world's finest! > > Best Regards, > > Adam > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Thu Jan 8 22:58:32 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 19:58:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] January Edition of "Meteorwritings" is Online In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <923828.30300.qm@web58408.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Another excellent installment Geoff, with top-notch photos as always! Keep up the good work. :) Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 11:04:47 -0700 > From: Notkin > Subject: [meteorite-list] January Edition of > "Meteorwritings" is > Online > To: Meteorite List > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; > format=flowed; > delsp=yes > > Dear Listees: > > Greetings from Tucson where we are in countdown mode to the > gem show. > I'll be open in just about three weeks, and will be > looking forward to > seeing many friends and familiar faces here. > > > The January edition of my monthly column, > "Meteorwritings" is now > online at Geology.com: > > http://geology.com/ > > -- or -- > > http://geology.com/meteorites/impactites.shtml > > > This month we look at impactites -- a subject near and dear > to many of > you, I know : ) > > We took a series of new photos for the article, including > impact > breccias from Alamo and Popigai, outstanding Libyan Desert > Glass > specimens, moldavite, etc., and there are field photos from > the Santa > Fe shatter cone site, Siberia and Alamo. I hope you enjoy > them. > > As always, comments and feedback are most welcome. > > > Sincerely, > > Geoff N. From eric at meteoritewatch.com Fri Jan 9 01:11:46 2009 From: eric at meteoritewatch.com (Eric Wichman) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2009 22:11:46 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Free Links... Take 2! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4966EAA2.4000400@meteoritewatch.com> OK let's try this one more time. Sorry for what seems like a double post. Last week I sent out a link to the links directory page on Meteorites USA and offered free links for any and all dealers and collectors who wanted them. However I moved the directory while doing some tweaking on the site, and in the process lost all the links in the database. I have since repopulated the list by hand with everyone I think was already listed. This time there's a nightly backup of the whole site so this mistake won't happen again. So, if your not in the directory post your link here: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-information/meteorite-links/ Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au Fri Jan 9 04:11:42 2009 From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 19:11:42 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: looking for Whitula Creek Message-ID: <72AEF2920B574D4897C72F714F09EE1C@your0a700f0aaf> Listoids I'm looking to beg buy borrow trade or maybe donate a kidney to accession a specimen of Whitula Creek This is one of the few very few that I need to finalise a Queensland Meteorites collection and also to publish a pocket guide with a focus on polished thin-sections If you can assist with the above or otherwise help me to track down a specimen please contact me off-list http://www.qmig.org From michael at spacerocksinc.com Fri Jan 9 05:30:18 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 02:30:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 9, 2009 Message-ID: <24340159.790861231497018225.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_9_2009.html From bobadebt at ec.rr.com Fri Jan 9 06:22:24 2009 From: bobadebt at ec.rr.com (David & Kitt Deyarmin) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 06:22:24 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Zag for $1.50 per Gram Message-ID: If anyone is interested in all of my remaining Zag stock I will sell it to you at $1.50 per gram According to my web site I have 13 slices left that weigh 298 grams. You can view the slices by clicking this http://home.roadrunner.com/~bobadebt/Subpages/FS%20Zag.htm If interested email me off list at bobadebt @ ec.rr.com Thanks From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Fri Jan 9 06:58:42 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:58:42 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on the lights and damage in UK In-Reply-To: <8AFFB2D165CA4574B3B630C6BDFA5041@StarmanPC> References: <20090108144017.KKRLL.404053.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> <8AFFB2D165CA4574B3B630C6BDFA5041@StarmanPC> Message-ID: <000c01c97251$c2d05380$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> No Al, England, moving lights, giant explosion, low flying object, tentacles, octopus..... That all points definitely to H.G.Wells' "The War of the Worlds" ! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von al mitterling Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. Januar 2009 15:46 An: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] More on the lights and damage in UK Greetings, The Martian Chronicles have returned!! Good film. --AL Mitterling From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Fri Jan 9 07:32:06 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 05:32:06 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] More on the lights and damage in UK In-Reply-To: <000c01c97251$c2d05380$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <20090108144017.KKRLL.404053.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> <8AFFB2D165CA4574B3B630C6BDFA5041@StarmanPC> <000c01c97251$c2d05380$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <58334.71.226.60.25.1231504326.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> The book, not the radio broadcast or the movies. Larry On Fri, January 9, 2009 4:58 am, Martin Altmann wrote: > No Al, > > > England, moving lights, giant explosion, low flying object, tentacles, > octopus..... > > That all points definitely to H.G.Wells' "The War of the Worlds" ! > > > Martin > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von al > mitterling Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. Januar 2009 15:46 > An: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] More on the lights and damage in UK > > > Greetings, > > > The Martian Chronicles have returned!! Good film. > > > --AL Mitterling > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From romanj at sympatico.ca Fri Jan 9 08:02:43 2009 From: romanj at sympatico.ca (Roman) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 08:02:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 9, 2009 References: <24340159.790861231497018225.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: What a group! When we were at the ROM I had the pleasure of holding each of these planetary masses, except for NWA 5000. It was already in it's display case. Thanks again to Greg Hupe and Ian Nicklin from the ROM who gave us the tour of the new meteorite gallery, it was truly an honor. Best regards, Roman Jirasek ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Johnson" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 5:30 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 9,2009 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_9_2009.html > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jan 9 08:36:32 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 09 Jan 2009 13:36:32 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Half-baked asteroids have Earth-like crust Message-ID: "...these meteorites are ancient asteroid fragments consisting of feldspar-rich rock called andesite. Similar rocks were previously known only from Earth, making these samples the first of their kind from elsewhere in the Solar System. ..The light-colored meteorites, designated GRA 06128 and GRA 06129, were immediately recognized as being different from previously known meteorites." See also: WYATT M.B. et al. (1999) Recognizing andesites on the SNC parent body: Mineralogy from Mars Global Surveyor (MAPS 34-4, 1999, A123). WYATT M.B. et al. (2001) An alternative hypothesis for basalt and andesite on Mars: Global surface compositions from MGS-TES (MAPS 36-9, 2001, A226). WYATT M.B. et al. (2002) Spectral evidence for weathered basalt as an alternative to andesite in the northern lowlands of Mars (Nature, vol. 417, p. 263-266). Best wishes, Bernd From waltbranch at birch.net Fri Jan 9 09:15:53 2009 From: waltbranch at birch.net (Walter Branch) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:15:53 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on the lights and damage in UK References: <20090108144017.KKRLL.404053.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com><8AFFB2D165CA4574B3B630C6BDFA5041@StarmanPC> <000c01c97251$c2d05380$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <134E7041D07E48F085779E7156DE8038@walterdesktop> Hello Martin, That thought had crossed my mind as well (as a BIG WOTW fan) -Walter Branch ----------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 6:58 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More on the lights and damage in UK No Al, England, moving lights, giant explosion, low flying object, tentacles, octopus..... That all points definitely to H.G.Wells' "The War of the Worlds" ! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von al mitterling Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. Januar 2009 15:46 An: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] More on the lights and damage in UK Greetings, The Martian Chronicles have returned!! Good film. --AL Mitterling ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1883 - Release Date: 1/8/2009 6:05 PM From bristolia at yahoo.com Fri Jan 9 10:12:59 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:12:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? Message-ID: <593261.69680.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Comet smashes triggered ancient famine January 7, 2009 by Ker Than http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126882.900-comet-smashes-triggered-ancient-famine.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news Abbott, D. H., P. Biscaye, J. Cole-Dai, and D. Breger, 2008, Magnetite and Silicate Spherules from the GISP2 Core at the 536 A.D. Horizon American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2008, abstract #PP41B-1454 http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&range=1&directget=1&application=fm08&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Findexes%2Ffm08%2Ffm08&maxhits=200&=%22PP41B-1454%22 and http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AGUFMPP41B1454A Yours, Paul H. From bristolia at yahoo.com Fri Jan 9 10:13:58 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:13:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] PDF Files of Holocene Impact Working Group Publications Message-ID: <153517.12752.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> PDF files of Holocene Impact Working Group publications can be found at:found at: http://tsun.sscc.ru/hiwg/publ.htm Home page http://tsun.sscc.ru/hiwg/hiwg.htm Yours, Paul H. From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Fri Jan 9 10:57:55 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:57:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <997883.6266.qm@web58401.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I have mixed feelings about this story : http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1642444_1870349_1870342,00.html I guess we'll be dodging errant golfballs and hearing cell phones ring while walking around one of the more remote places on the Earth. :( I wonder if any of these wealthy tourists realize they are visiting a famous strewnfield? Regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jan 9 11:04:08 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 08:04:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? In-Reply-To: <997883.6266.qm@web58401.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <494747.75701.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Sad, I was there on top of that rock a few years ago. San Pedro de Atacama is a fantastic town, a little like the wild west, with dirt streets, no water (all water is trucked in) and dodgy looking people. I had more fun there than can be explained. To have Hollywood types jetting down there to stay in a spa just sucks in my opinion. The geysers were amazing, typical that man would destroy them to make more money mining. Oh well. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 1/9/09, Michael Gilmer wrote: > From: Michael Gilmer > Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 8:57 AM > I have mixed feelings about this story : > > http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1642444_1870349_1870342,00.html > > I guess we'll be dodging errant golfballs and hearing > cell phones > ring while walking around one of the more remote places on > the Earth. :( > > I wonder if any of these wealthy tourists realize they are > visiting > a famous strewnfield? > > Regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From daistiho at hotmail.com Fri Jan 9 11:54:11 2009 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 16:54:11 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 8, 2009 In-Reply-To: <841945C3169A40B19B7C6925515DB0BE@ASUS> References: <21547487.743991231452633717.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> <841945C3169A40B19B7C6925515DB0BE@ASUS> Message-ID: The only thing I can say (with apologies) is: DO WANT!!!!! Tracy Latimer > >> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_8_2009.html >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jan 9 12:01:18 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:01:18 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? Message-ID: All, I am a bit conflicted with this too. However, to insist that a group of humans stay in a setting from a couple centuries ago, like keeping apes in a fake looking jungle cage at the zoo, just so we can go an see them "undisturbed" is a bit morbid. Like others on the list, I too have visited San Pedro de Atacama on my several trips to Imilac in the past and really loved going there. The old small buildings, narrow streets, broken glass bottles cemented into the tops of walls around yards as security fences, were unforgettable. It was an oasis compared to dry and desolate surroundings. But, also as unforgettable, was all the trash strewn about the highway for thousands of miles up and down the Pan American highway. Somebody forgot to put up the "Keep Chile Clean" signs. Litter was so abundant, especially at railroad crossings. Burned out cars and buses were sitting on the side of the road from car wrecks years if not decades before. What 99% of people saw when traveling on the highway(s) of Chile was the trash, not the beauty. You had to get off the highway before things would clean up. So to me, my hunch is that if there are high class hotels coming in to the San Pedro de Atacama, my bet is that they will at least clean the trash up on and around their own property. They might even pay to have the other trash in public areas cleaned up as well. So in a way, the development might be a good thing. And the situation with the residents there, imprisoned in poverty, is sad. I am sure they, like most anyone else in the civilized world would like to have a good job, be able to afford TV, a nice car, good health care, maybe be able to send their kids off to college to have a CHOICE as to what they want to do with their life. For those of us with enough money to travel there, it is fun, but we get to leave and choose where we go next. To be stuck there for one's whole life, it might get to be a drag after a while. If they can make a buck and improve their life, who are we to say that is bad? If I would ever choose to head that way again, either to find rocks or simply as a tourist , I would probably choose to stay in an overpriced nice place instead of an overpriced small place. Although, the places I stayed at a decade ago were quite modern considering; not mud floor huts that the post cards would indicate. I for one can fully understand why they would want to develop that part of the country for tourists. It is an amazing place and I am sure as word spreads more and more people would want to go there. I for one, have STRONGLY recommended that anyone that has a chance, should go and see San Pedro de Atacama. Not to mention, take a fishing boat out to see the penguins on the way up. Oh, and there is a great steak house in La Serena. And the vineyards, very much worth the tours. And when you are in Antofagasta, don't forget to wear your seatbelts, they will pull you over and ticket you for that infraction alone. And the Pampa area, words can't describe how desolate it looks...and words can't describe how daunting the feeling is, in the pit of your stomach, if your truck gets stuck out there. And don't forget the Pisco and Pepsi, when heading out to your campsite. And, pick up some lumber in the trash piles along the highway to make a campfire out of, or you will be very cold once the sun sets and you are waiting for the Pisco to kick in! Oh, and did someone mention strewnfields? Why wouldn't EVERYONE want to go there? There are meteorites to be found! As far as the copper mines growing and encroaching on people, I am sure there is room to get on either side of that argument. Some would argue that at least they are not killing off wildlife in the process, since wildlife doesn't live out there to start with. If they force humans to scoot over a little, well, that is what humans are good at, moving over. I just hope they do what they do with taste, and it allows more people to enjoy the beautiful setting that is waiting for them in such a desolate corner of the earth. If they decide to trash the place even more, well, it wouldn't really surprise me, it is kind of their tradition down there anyway. Steve Arnold #1 Arkansas In a message dated 1/9/2009 10:05:16 A.M. Central Standard Time, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: Sad, I was there on top of that rock a few years ago. San Pedro de Atacama is a fantastic town, a little like the wild west, with dirt streets, no water (all water is trucked in) and dodgy looking people. I had more fun there than can be explained. To have Hollywood types jetting down there to stay in a spa just sucks in my opinion. The geysers were amazing, typical that man would destroy them to make more money mining. Oh well. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 1/9/09, Michael Gilmer wrote: > From: Michael Gilmer > Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 8:57 AM > I have mixed feelings about this story : > > http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1642444_1870349_1870342,00.html > > I guess we'll be dodging errant golfballs and hearing > cell phones > ring while walking around one of the more remote places on > the Earth. :( > > I wonder if any of these wealthy tourists realize they are > visiting > a famous strewnfield? > > Regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) From waltbranch at birch.net Fri Jan 9 12:05:59 2009 From: waltbranch at birch.net (Walter Branch) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:05:59 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -January 8, 2009 References: <21547487.743991231452633717.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com><841945C3169A40B19B7C6925515DB0BE@ASUS> Message-ID: Hi Tracy, I agree. Very nice. Nice description, as well. I am also happy to read that a piece has been sent for analysis. -Walter Branch ----------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "tracy latimer" To: Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -January 8, 2009 The only thing I can say (with apologies) is: DO WANT!!!!! Tracy Latimer > >> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_8_2009.html >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.5/1884 - Release Date: 1/9/2009 8:38 AM From jamespault at att.net Fri Jan 9 12:14:57 2009 From: jamespault at att.net (James Tobin) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:14:57 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Message-ID: <001f01c9727d$d5c25110$4001a8c0@Jimscomputer> Well this is a first for me. An advertisement. My greatly expanded book on Meteor Crater is complete and available for purchase. Included in the volume are reprints of the original reports on the crater by Barringer, Thilgman, and Gilbert. The cost of these papers alone would be several times the cost of my book were you to buy the reports today. But, the narrative tours of the rim and the floor should be very entertaining for anyone who has seen the crater but especially for people who have not. I tried to make them as close to being there walking as I could. You can not go to most of those sites at the crater anymore. The book is pretty rich in photographs and stuffed with information. It can be seen and bought at: http://www.cafepress.com/Craterbook Looking forward to greeting many of you at Tucson in about a month. Best regards, Jim Tobin From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Fri Jan 9 12:35:34 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 09:35:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <189269.87426.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Steve and Mike, I would be one hell of a pretentious upstart to disagree with someone who has actually been there. My travels in the Atacama are limited to armchair fantasies and future pipe dreams. I do hope to visit there one day in the future, but I'd like it to look like ATACAMA when I get there, and not Orlando Florida. Steve, I can't argue with the logic and rationale of what you say here : ----------------- "But, also as unforgettable, was all the trash strewn about the highway for thousands of miles up and down the Pan American highway. Somebody forgot to put up the "Keep Chile Clean" signs. Litter was so abundant, especially at railroad crossings. Burned out cars and buses were sitting on the side of the road from car wrecks years if not decades before. What 99% of people saw when traveling on the highway(s) of Chile was the trash, not the beauty. You had to get off the highway before things would clean up. So to me, my hunch is that if there are high class hotels coming in to the San Pedro de Atacama, my bet is that they will at least clean the trash up on and around their own property. They might even pay to have the other trash in public areas cleaned up as well. So in a way, the development might be a good thing. And the situation with the residents there, imprisoned in poverty, is sad. I am sure they, like most anyone else in the civilized world would like to have a good job, be able to afford TV, a nice car, good health care, maybe be able to send their kids off to college to have a CHOICE as to what they want to do with their life. For those of us with enough money to travel there, it is fun, but we get to leave and choose where we go next. To be stuck there for one's whole life, it might get to be a drag after a while. If they can make a buck and improve their life, who are we to say that is bad?" ----------------------------------------------- But, we also have to recognize that opinions such as these reflect our cultural values. We are trying, again, to force our views of life and standards of living on other cultures. The wealthy powers have always done this - we are saving the savages from damnation and bringing them the dignity of literacy and running water. Sound familiar? It's the first step on the well-worn path to cultural genocide. Of course Coca Cola is better than their local concoction made of who knows what. And of course Starbucks expresso would be a nice treat while combing the deserts. And it would be nice to have a payphone in the middle of the desert, or cellphone service to call a tow truck. But these people have lived this way for centuries and they are fine with it. We, as "civilized" westerners, are the ones who have a problem with their apparent poverty. At what cost does one sell a soul? To be honest, I don't know if this represents "progress" to any of the locals. Sure, it means a few more pity dollars thrown their way by wealthy travelistas, but it also means the disappearance of another culture that has existed for centuries without outside interference and dominance. Having said all of that, litter is natural places disgusts me. And I have never understood what it is about being poor than means a person has an excuse to be filthy. I drive past economically-depressed areas and see dozens of able-bodied people lounging around or loitering around while they are surrounded by trash everywhere. None of them think to take 5 minutes and pick it up and put it in a dumpster that is usually 10 feet away. Apparently being poor is intrinsically related to tolerance of trash and dirt. Even if I was spit-poor, I'd have the cleanest and neatest mud hut in the village. Well, I guess when we have a wall-to-wall neon and concrete world, then we'll finally be happy....right? Or will this compulsive need to spread "progress" extend to other cultures we encounter while exploring space? Best regards and clear skies from the closet-mountain-man, MikeG ....................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... --- On Fri, 1/9/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com > Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 11:01 AM > All, > > I am a bit conflicted with this too. > > However, to insist that a group of humans stay in a setting > from a couple > centuries ago, like keeping apes in a fake looking jungle > cage at the zoo, just > so we can go an see them "undisturbed" is a bit > morbid. > > Like others on the list, I too have visited San Pedro de > Atacama on my > several trips to Imilac in the past and really loved going > there. The old small > buildings, narrow streets, broken glass bottles cemented > into the tops of > walls around yards as security fences, were unforgettable. > > > It was an oasis compared to dry and desolate surroundings. > > But, also as unforgettable, was all the trash strewn about > the highway for > thousands of miles up and down the Pan American highway. > Somebody forgot to > put up the "Keep Chile Clean" signs. Litter was > so abundant, especially at > railroad crossings. Burned out cars and buses were > sitting on the side of the > road from car wrecks years if not decades before. What > 99% of people saw > when traveling on the highway(s) of Chile was the trash, > not the beauty. You > had to get off the highway before things would clean up. > > So to me, my hunch is that if there are high class hotels > coming in to the > San Pedro de Atacama, my bet is that they will at least > clean the trash up on > and around their own property. They might even pay to > have the other trash > in public areas cleaned up as well. So in a way, the > development might be a > good thing. > > And the situation with the residents there, imprisoned in > poverty, is sad. > I am sure they, like most anyone else in the civilized > world would like to > have a good job, be able to afford TV, a nice car, good > health care, maybe be > able to send their kids off to college to have a CHOICE as > to what they want > to do with their life. > For those of us with enough money to travel there, it is > fun, but we get to > leave and choose where we go next. To be stuck there for > one's whole life, > it might get to be a drag after a while. If they can make > a buck and improve > their life, who are we to say that is bad? > > If I would ever choose to head that way again, either to > find rocks or > simply as a tourist , I would probably choose to stay in an > overpriced nice place > instead of an overpriced small place. Although, the > places I stayed at a > decade ago were quite modern considering; not mud floor > huts that the post cards > would indicate. > > I for one can fully understand why they would want to > develop that part of > the country for tourists. It is an amazing place and I am > sure as word > spreads more and more people would want to go there. I > for one, have STRONGLY > recommended that anyone that has a chance, should go and > see San Pedro de > Atacama. Not to mention, take a fishing boat out to see > the penguins on the way up. > Oh, and there is a great steak house in La Serena. And > the vineyards, very > much worth the tours. And when you are in Antofagasta, > don't forget to wear > your seatbelts, they will pull you over and ticket you for > that infraction > alone. And the Pampa area, words can't describe how > desolate it looks...and > words can't describe how daunting the feeling is, in > the pit of your stomach, > if your truck gets stuck out there. And don't forget > the Pisco and Pepsi, > when heading out to your campsite. And, pick up some > lumber in the trash > piles along the highway to make a campfire out of, or you > will be very cold once > the sun sets and you are waiting for the Pisco to kick in! > > Oh, and did someone mention strewnfields? Why > wouldn't EVERYONE want to go > there? There are meteorites to be found! > > As far as the copper mines growing and encroaching on > people, I am sure > there is room to get on either side of that argument. > Some would argue that at > least they are not killing off wildlife in the process, > since wildlife doesn't > live out there to start with. If they force humans to > scoot over a little, > well, that is what humans are good at, moving over. > > I just hope they do what they do with taste, and it allows > more people to > enjoy the beautiful setting that is waiting for them in > such a desolate corner > of the earth. If they decide to trash the place even > more, well, it wouldn't > really surprise me, it is kind of their tradition down > there anyway. > > Steve Arnold #1 > Arkansas > > > In a message dated 1/9/2009 10:05:16 A.M. Central Standard > Time, > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: > Sad, > I was there on top of that rock a few years ago. San Pedro > de Atacama is a > fantastic town, a little like the wild west, with dirt > streets, no water (all > water is trucked in) and dodgy looking people. I had more > fun there than can > be explained. To have Hollywood types jetting down there > to stay in a spa > just sucks in my opinion. The geysers were amazing, > typical that man would > destroy them to make more money mining. Oh well. > Michael Farmer > > > --- On Fri, 1/9/09, Michael Gilmer > wrote: > > > From: Michael Gilmer > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 8:57 AM > > I have mixed feelings about this story : > > > > > http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1642444_1870349_1870342,00.html > > > > I guess we'll be dodging errant golfballs and > hearing > > cell phones > > ring while walking around one of the more remote > places on > > the Earth. :( > > > > I wonder if any of these wealthy tourists realize > they are > > visiting > > a famous strewnfield? > > > > Regards and clear skies, > > > > MikeG > > > > > > > ......................................................... > > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > > http://www.glassthrower.com > > MySpace - > http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > > > .......................................................... From geoking at notkin.net Fri Jan 9 13:07:06 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:07:06 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? In-Reply-To: <189269.87426.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <189269.87426.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <44FDE88B-57A4-4AD0-9D50-06C43893D6F5@notkin.net> Steve's post about the absence of "Keep Chile Clean" signs took me right back to that long but thrilling drive from Santiago in southern Chile all the way up the Pan American highway to Antofagasta -- the gateway to the Atacama. That was during our 1997 expedition to Vaca Muerta, La Pampa, and Imilac. We were a three-person team, well prepared with plenty of supplies, jerry cans full of extra gas and water and so on. I guess we all expected it would be possible to buy firewood on the way, or maybe find dead tree branches for our desert campfires, but really there are NO trees out there. Or bugs, cactus, reptiles or even the tiniest plant. No wonder NASA tested Mars robots in the Atacama. It is spectacular, but also the most barren place imaginable. Well, except for Mars I guess. So, there we were, pounding up the Pan American highway, dodging ferocious Chilean truck and bus drivers (you'd think the shrines to dead motorists every fifty feet would get them to slow down, but they just go faster), bemoaning the fact that we didn't have any firewood. And then we started noticing the non-stop debris trail on both sides of the highway: busted crates, boxes, fence posts, bits of . . . well we really couldn't guess what most of the wood had once been part of. It really was endless. At some point either Steve or I exclaimed: "Hey we should just pull over and start picking up some of this scrap wood off the highway!" We stopped numerous times and piled so much wood into the back of our truck that we looked like refugees during the Retreat from Moscow. So, we did our bit to clean up the P.A. highway, got some free campfire fuel, and all that scrap wood did a great job of hiding our valuable metal detectors from gawkers. All in all it worked out pretty well. We even left some bonus firewood at the Imilac campsite for Michael Cottingham who was due to show up a few weeks after us and he never did write to say thanks : ) Here are a few photos from that trip: http://www.aerolite.org/expeditions/pampa.htm http://www.aerolite.org/expeditions/imilac-sign.htm http://www.aerolite.org/expeditions/chile-finds.htm I must say, I do miss the pisco! That was one of the best parts, as I'm sure Steve will testify : ) Regards, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jan 9 13:38:56 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:38:56 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? Message-ID: Hey MikeG, First off, the Atacama is a very large place. Lot's of meteorites still to be found in desolate areas. I don't think there will be any concern about filling up a fraction of 1% of it, much less all of it. There would be room for several billion inmates if anyone decided to build a prison there. WARNING, I am swerving off the Meteorite Topic in the rest of my email! Second, I do want to take issue with you on your comment: "But, we also have to recognize that opinions such as these reflect our cultural values. We are trying, again, to force our views of life and standards of living on other cultures. The wealthy powers have always done this - we are saving the savages from damnation and bringing them the dignity of literacy and running water. Sound familiar?" I really don't think this is a matter of western culture's Hollywood forcing their morals on the rest of the world people who are living a more traditional life. I think this is a matter of letting people make the choice for themselves. There is a reason why Coca-Cola is everywhere, there is something about it that makes people like to buy it once the pop machine is plugged in. Actually, I would think historically there is more precedent for the wealthy powers to want to keep the masses poor, dependent and ignorant, rather than prosperous, independent and educated. It seems around the world, it is the local leaders (often religious) that want to stop our western culture from spreading into their strongholds, and all the while it is their people, that they control, that want the freedom. Yes, rich people or governments (not that the Chilean Government should be considered "wealthy") will be putting up the hotels and will cultivate the tourism. Yes, it might encroach on some people that want the old simple life in the San Pedro hut. But, if the business efforts are successful, then the poor people can sell their hut for $1,000,000 move a hundred kilometers down the dirt road, build or buy another $1,000 house, and put the rest of the money under their mattress, or burn it for a cooking fire. Ask 500 poor people in the village if they each want $1,000,000 and the choices of life that money would bring, or to be stuck in their poverty? My guess is that 498 will say they want the money and the choices it brings. Such is progress. I think letting people have their own choice is important. More often than not, people that are held back, without the choices, are ones that would rather break out of the restraints of their parents culture. After all, it wasn't a child's fault they were born when and where they were. The irony is that many in our modern western culture are tired of it, and are looking for something new, or in some cases, something old. Cool. That is what choice and freedom are all about. And a little prosperity helps one have more choices. NOTICE: All these comments come from a guy who lives in the sticks of Arkansas, in a dry county without a single movie theater or even a single stop light, who lives in a hand hewn dog trot log cabin built in 1866 and who just got TV a couple of weeks ago and who home schools his kids. I know, such an email as this can incite riots. And I would probably agree with 99% of what people say about how evil our culture is, and how it would be best if the rest of the world was NOT like us. Anyway, I just know how excited I was to get away from the culture of my small Kansas town I grew up in, to get to the big city culture when I got out of high school. The grass is always greener, isn't it? Choices are wonderful. God Bless America! Steve Arnold #1 Arkansas In a message dated 1/9/2009 11:36:02 A.M. Central Standard Time, michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com writes: Hi Steve and Mike, I would be one hell of a pretentious upstart to disagree with someone who has actually been there. My travels in the Atacama are limited to armchair fantasies and future pipe dreams. I do hope to visit there one day in the future, but I'd like it to look like ATACAMA when I get there, and not Orlando Florida. Steve, I can't argue with the logic and rationale of what you say here : ----------------- "But, also as unforgettable, was all the trash strewn about the highway for thousands of miles up and down the Pan American highway. Somebody forgot to put up the "Keep Chile Clean" signs. Litter was so abundant, especially at railroad crossings. Burned out cars and buses were sitting on the side of the road from car wrecks years if not decades before. What 99% of people saw when traveling on the highway(s) of Chile was the trash, not the beauty. You had to get off the highway before things would clean up. So to me, my hunch is that if there are high class hotels coming in to the San Pedro de Atacama, my bet is that they will at least clean the trash up on and around their own property. They might even pay to have the other trash in public areas cleaned up as well. So in a way, the development might be a good thing. And the situation with the residents there, imprisoned in poverty, is sad. I am sure they, like most anyone else in the civilized world would like to have a good job, be able to afford TV, a nice car, good health care, maybe be able to send their kids off to college to have a CHOICE as to what they want to do with their life. For those of us with enough money to travel there, it is fun, but we get to leave and choose where we go next. To be stuck there for one's whole life, it might get to be a drag after a while. If they can make a buck and improve their life, who are we to say that is bad?" ----------------------------------------------- But, we also have to recognize that opinions such as these reflect our cultural values. We are trying, again, to force our views of life and standards of living on other cultures. The wealthy powers have always done this - we are saving the savages from damnation and bringing them the dignity of literacy and running water. Sound familiar? It's the first step on the well-worn path to cultural genocide. Of course Coca Cola is better than their local concoction made of who knows what. And of course Starbucks expresso would be a nice treat while combing the deserts. And it would be nice to have a payphone in the middle of the desert, or cellphone service to call a tow truck. But these people have lived this way for centuries and they are fine with it. We, as "civilized" westerners, are the ones who have a problem with their apparent poverty. At what cost does one sell a soul? To be honest, I don't know if this represents "progress" to any of the locals. Sure, it means a few more pity dollars thrown their way by wealthy travelistas, but it also means the disappearance of another culture that has existed for centuries without outside interference and dominance. Having said all of that, litter is natural places disgusts me. And I have never understood what it is about being poor than means a person has an excuse to be filthy. I drive past economically-depressed areas and see dozens of able-bodied people lounging around or loitering around while they are surrounded by trash everywhere. None of them think to take 5 minutes and pick it up and put it in a dumpster that is usually 10 feet away. Apparently being poor is intrinsically related to tolerance of trash and dirt. Even if I was spit-poor, I'd have the cleanest and neatest mud hut in the village. Well, I guess when we have a wall-to-wall neon and concrete world, then we'll finally be happy....right? Or will this compulsive need to spread "progress" extend to other cultures we encounter while exploring space? Best regards and clear skies from the closet-mountain-man, MikeG **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jan 9 13:48:44 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:48:44 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? Message-ID: In a message dated 1/9/2009 12:07:54 P.M. Central Standard Time, geoking at notkin.net writes: Steve's post about the absence of "Keep Chile Clean" signs took me right back to that long but thrilling drive from Santiago in southern Chile all the way up the Pan American highway to Antofagasta -- the gateway to the Atacama. . Geoff, Great post, but I must correct you one on thing: Santiago is in the MIDDLE of Chile, not in southern Chile. It only SEEMS like it is in the southern part with the 24 hours of driving it takes to get north to Antofagasta. Many people don't realize that the "little" country of Chile is as long as L.A. is from New York. And starting at Santiago is like flying into St. Louis and then driving there rest of the way into Tucson. Getting to San Pedro de Atacama is like going on to Tombstone, AZ. Speaking of Tucson and culture, it is about that time again when people from virtually every culture on the planet converge to barter another years worth of goods. I can hardly wait! Steve Arnold #1 Arkansas **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jan 9 14:00:11 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:00:11 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? Message-ID: In a message dated 1/9/2009 12:07:54 P.M. Central Standard Time, geoking at notkin.net writes: I must say, I do miss the pisco! That was one of the best parts, as I'm sure Steve will testify : ) . Geoff, Honestly, I don't remember all that much about the pisco... ;-) I remember starting to drink it... then... it all gets quit fuzzy. Yea, I miss it too! Steve **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jan 9 14:09:21 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:09:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: January 5-9, 2009 Message-ID: <200901091909.LAA02557@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES January 5-9, 2009 o Crater Dunes (Released 05 January 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090105a o Channel (Released 06 January 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090106a o Lycus Suici (Released 07 January 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090107a o Marte Vallis (Released 08 January 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090108a o Landslide (Released 09 January 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090109a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Fri Jan 9 14:14:22 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:14:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <993248.38685.qm@web58403.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Steve, You do make some good points that are well worth considering. I am not an enemy of progress, but I do hate to see this progress come at the cost of the surrounding natural environment or the dignity of local cultures. It's a fine line to walk. I do think that all peoples should be able to read, write, voice their opinions, and be free to pursue whatever makes them happy if it hurts nobody else - even if that happiness is a gold mansion with a platinum toliet seat, or if it's a hand-hewn log cabin in the Ozarks. Steve, I really envy this part of your reply : "NOTICE: All these comments come from a guy who lives in the sticks of Arkansas, in a dry county without a single movie theater or even a single stop light, who lives in a hand hewn dog trot log cabin built in 1866 and who just got TV a couple of weeks ago and who home schools his kids." I used to live in a dry county in rural northern Mississippi (New Albany), and I loved the lack of hustle and bustle. I am one of those people you mention who wants to get back to a simpler lifestyle. And my fantasies of a National-Geographic-like trip to the Atacama has just been squashed by visions of Land Rovers full of well-heeled tourists and highways strewn with trash. I guess we still have the Gobi in rural Mongolia. I have a penpal over there whose mother is a shaman and lives in a yurt. He says the skies are fantastically dark and there is no development outside of the major cities. Now that sounds like paradise to me. BTW, shouldn't the Gobi be a good source of meteorites? I asked him about this, but I don't recall what he said. I'll have to go dig for his reply in my inbox mountain. I apologize as well for getting this off-topic. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... --- On Fri, 1/9/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? > To: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 12:38 PM > Hey MikeG, > > First off, the Atacama is a very large place. Lot's > of meteorites still to > be found in desolate areas. I don't think there will > be any concern about > filling up a fraction of 1% of it, much less all of it. > There would be room > for several billion inmates if anyone decided to build a > prison there. > > WARNING, I am swerving off the Meteorite Topic in the rest > of my email! > > Second, I do want to take issue with you on your comment: > > "But, we also have to recognize that opinions such as > these reflect our > cultural values. We are trying, again, to force our views > of life > and standards of living on other cultures. The wealthy > powers have > always done this - we are saving the savages from > damnation and > bringing them the dignity of literacy and running water. > Sound > familiar?" > > I really don't think this is a matter of western > culture's Hollywood forcing > their morals on the rest of the world people who are > living a more > traditional life. I think this is a matter of letting > people make the choice for > themselves. There is a reason why Coca-Cola is > everywhere, there is something > about it that makes people like to buy it once the pop > machine is plugged in. > > Actually, I would think historically there is more > precedent for the wealthy > powers to want to keep the masses poor, dependent and > ignorant, rather than > prosperous, independent and educated. > > It seems around the world, it is the local leaders (often > religious) that > want to stop our western culture from spreading into their > strongholds, and all > the while it is their people, that they control, that want > the freedom. > > Yes, rich people or governments (not that the Chilean > Government should be > considered "wealthy") will be putting up the > hotels and will cultivate the > tourism. Yes, it might encroach on some people that want > the old simple life in > the San Pedro hut. But, if the business efforts are > successful, then the > poor people can sell their hut for $1,000,000 move a > hundred kilometers down > the dirt road, build or buy another $1,000 house, and put > the rest of the > money under their mattress, or burn it for a cooking fire. > > Ask 500 poor people in the village if they each want > $1,000,000 and the > choices of life that money would bring, or to be stuck in > their poverty? My > guess is that 498 will say they want the money and the > choices it brings. > > Such is progress. I think letting people have their own > choice is > important. More often than not, people that are held > back, without the choices, are > ones that would rather break out of the restraints of > their parents culture. > After all, it wasn't a child's fault they were > born when and where they were. > > The irony is that many in our modern western culture are > tired of it, and > are looking for something new, or in some cases, something > old. Cool. That is > what choice and freedom are all about. And a little > prosperity helps one > have more choices. > > NOTICE: All these comments come from a guy who lives in > the sticks of > Arkansas, in a dry county without a single movie theater or > even a single stop > light, who lives in a hand hewn dog trot log cabin built in > 1866 and who just > got TV a couple of weeks ago and who home schools his kids. > > I know, such an email as this can incite riots. > > And I would probably agree with 99% of what people say > about how evil our > culture is, and how it would be best if the rest of the > world was NOT like us. > > Anyway, I just know how excited I was to get away from the > culture of my > small Kansas town I grew up in, to get to the big city > culture when I got out of > high school. > > The grass is always greener, isn't it? > > Choices are wonderful. > > God Bless America! > > Steve Arnold #1 > Arkansas > > > > > > In a message dated 1/9/2009 11:36:02 A.M. Central Standard > Time, > michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com writes: > Hi Steve and Mike, > > I would be one hell of a pretentious upstart to disagree > with someone > who has actually been there. My travels in the Atacama are > limited > to armchair fantasies and future pipe dreams. I do hope to > visit > there one day in the future, but I'd like it to look > like ATACAMA > when I get there, and not Orlando Florida. > > Steve, I can't argue with the logic and rationale of > what you say here : > > ----------------- > > "But, also as unforgettable, was all the trash > strewn about the highway for > thousands of miles up and down the Pan American highway. > Somebody forgot to > put up the "Keep Chile Clean" signs. Litter > was so abundant, especially at > railroad crossings. Burned out cars and buses were > sitting on the side of > the > road from car wrecks years if not decades before. What > 99% of people saw > when traveling on the highway(s) of Chile was the trash, > not the beauty. > You > had to get off the highway before things would clean up. > > So to me, my hunch is that if there are high class hotels > coming in to the > San Pedro de Atacama, my bet is that they will at least > clean the trash up > on > and around their own property. They might even pay to > have the other trash > in public areas cleaned up as well. So in a way, the > development might be a > good thing. > > And the situation with the residents there, imprisoned in > poverty, is sad. > I am sure they, like most anyone else in the civilized > world would like to > have a good job, be able to afford TV, a nice car, good > health care, maybe > be > able to send their kids off to college to have a CHOICE as > to what they want > to do with their life. > For those of us with enough money to travel there, it is > fun, but we get to > leave and choose where we go next. To be stuck there for > one's whole life, > it might get to be a drag after a while. If they can make > a buck and > improve > their life, who are we to say that is bad?" > > ----------------------------------------------- > > But, we also have to recognize that opinions such as these > reflect our > cultural values. We are trying, again, to force our views > of life > and standards of living on other cultures. The wealthy > powers have > always done this - we are saving the savages from > damnation and > bringing them the dignity of literacy and running water. > Sound > familiar? It's the first step on the well-worn path > to cultural > genocide. Of course Coca Cola is better than their local > concoction > made of who knows what. And of course Starbucks expresso > would be > a nice treat while combing the deserts. And it would be > nice to > have a payphone in the middle of the desert, or cellphone > service > to call a tow truck. But these people have lived this way > for > centuries and they are fine with it. We, as > "civilized" westerners, > are the ones who have a problem with their apparent > poverty. At > what cost does one sell a soul? To be honest, I don't > know if this > represents "progress" to any of the locals. > Sure, it means a few > more pity dollars thrown their way by wealthy travelistas, > but it > also means the disappearance of another culture that has > existed for > centuries without outside interference and dominance. > > Having said all of that, litter is natural places disgusts > me. And > I have never understood what it is about being poor than > means a > person has an excuse to be filthy. I drive past > economically-depressed > areas and see dozens of able-bodied people lounging around > or loitering around > while they are surrounded by trash everywhere. None of > them think to take 5 > minutes and pick it up and put it in a dumpster that is > usually 10 feet away. > Apparently being poor is > intrinsically related to tolerance of trash and dirt. Even > if I was > spit-poor, I'd have the cleanest and neatest mud hut in > the village. > > Well, I guess when we have a wall-to-wall neon and concrete > world, then > we'll finally be happy....right? Or will this > compulsive need to > spread "progress" extend to other cultures we > encounter while > exploring space? > > Best regards and clear skies from the closet-mountain-man, > > MikeG From daistiho at hotmail.com Fri Jan 9 14:15:28 2009 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 19:15:28 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? In-Reply-To: <593261.69680.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <593261.69680.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >From what little research I did, I had understood that a substantial chunk of the sun-blotting fog was actually 'vog', which outgassed from major eruptions in Iceland. Iceland underwent several periods of volcanic activity during the 'Dark Ages', where multiple volcanic vents burped out stifling clouds of gas. The gas periodically got so thick and noxious that it poisoned vegetation, killed animals, and sickened almost everyone else; there was at least one major exodus of survivors around 770 a.c.e. Tracy Latimer ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:12:59 -0800 > From: bristolia at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? > > Comet smashes triggered ancient famine > January 7, 2009 by Ker Than > http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126882.900-comet-smashes-triggered-ancient-famine.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news > > Abbott, D. H., P. Biscaye, J. Cole-Dai, and D. Breger, 2008, > Magnetite and Silicate Spherules from the GISP2 Core at the 536 A.D. Horizon > American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2008, abstract #PP41B-1454 > > http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&range=1&directget=1&application=fm08&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Findexes%2Ffm08%2Ffm08&maxhits=200&=%22PP41B-1454%22 > > and > > http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AGUFMPP41B1454A > > Yours, > > Paul H. > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 From bristolia at yahoo.com Fri Jan 9 14:54:43 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:54:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Triggered Ancient New York Tsunami ??? Message-ID: <324689.29823.qm@web36203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Meteorite Triggered Ancient New York Tsunami? by Ker Than, National Geographic News, December 31, 2008, http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/12/081231-new-york-tsunami.html New York City's natural hazards: Rats, roaches and & tsunamis? by Jordan Lite, Scientific American, http://www.sciam.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=new-york-citys-natural-hazards-rats-2008-12-30 Cagen, K. T., D. Abbott, F. Nitsche, A. West, T. Bunch, D. Breger, A. Slagle, and S. Carbotte, 2008, Evidence for a Tsunamigenic Impact Event in the New York Metropolitan Area Approximately 2300 B.P., Eos Trans. Aemrican Geophysical Insitute, vol.89, no. 53, Fall Meet. Supplement, abstract P31A-1381, http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&range=1&directget=1&application=fm08&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Findexes%2Ffm08%2Ffm08&maxhits=200&=%22P31A-1381%22 or http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AGUFM.P31A1381C Yours, Paul H. From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Fri Jan 9 15:14:20 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:14:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pultusk ID card question Message-ID: <23782.84894.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, Does anybody recognize what collection or dealer these Pultusk peas came from? I was going through my safe and found two small bottles with Qty 25 of these weighing a total 69.9 grams. Only one label was included and it was rolled inside the bottle. Each stone has a faded "P" painted on them and the ID card has a MT-11 designation on it. I remember trading for these during a Blood auction about six years ago but forgot what dealer or collector I got them from. I seemed to have misplaced my notes or failed to write them down. If you traded these to me or recognize the ID card, please contact me so that I can update my notes and make these available. Here are some images: http://themeteoritesite.com/Pultusk-a.jpg http://themeteoritesite.com/Pultusk-b.jpg http://themeteoritesite.com/Pultusk-c.jpg Thank you and best regards, Adam From mikewren at gilanet.com Fri Jan 9 15:41:11 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:41:11 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Who is The 5th Cylon? Highlights Added For Your Ease and Pleasure! Message-ID: <26AA31B0-6A7C-42A5-9966-89770D7CF6C3@gilanet.com> Hello, Once again... Highlights added... great offerings ... and who will the 5th Cylon be? http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history Highlights: RARE-A SLICE Of CARANCAS, Peru, H4-5, 1.09g, A SLICE OF CARANCAS! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200296534557 Super Rare L'AIGLE, L6, Fall From France 1803 !!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200296534580 Superb CAMEL DONGA, Eucrite, Australia, 5.14g, A beautiful Slice! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200296534595 Rare YORKTOWN,Texas, H5 Chondrite, LTKW,0.08g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295915305 Seldom Available BUENAVENTURA, Mexico, IIIAB, Only Piece I have. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295914181 Super Rare Fall BATH FURNACE, Kentucky, 1.84g, MY LAST SPECIMEN! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295895083 Famous WESTON, CT., Fall of 1807, H4, 0.15g, Only A Few Left! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295901181 Very Rare HARLETON (a), L6 Fall From Texas!, ONLY SPECIMEN I HAVE! 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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908607 Super Fine ESQUEL, Pallasite Slice, 3.53g, One of my last! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295913498 BRENHAM, Siderite From Kansas, 109.54 gram, BIG PRETTY SLICE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295909659 Seldom Available BRISCOE, Texas, L5, 2.20g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295898051 CANYON DIABLO Individual, 244 gram, Nice Individual! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295893963 (NEW) NWA 4293, H6, 100 gram Lot #4, Going Cheap! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295905767 Nice H3 From Namibia, KORRA KORRABES, 33.44 g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908599 An Early # NWA 103, L6 From Africa, 23.91g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908592 (NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 162 Gram, YOU MUST TAKE A LOOK AT THIS ONE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295910804 (New) Martian Shergottite, NWA 4925, "Mars" http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908621 Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 12.56 gram, NICE SLICE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908611 Rare NWA 2932, Mesosiderite, Nice! 4.98 gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295911929 Beautiful L3, SAHARA 02500, 74.74 gram, Real Pretty! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295910599 Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 1.74g, One of My Last! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295910320 (New) NWA 4881, Lunar Feldspathic Specimen http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908616 Seldom Available TULIA (b), Texas, L6, 0.83 g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908596 Witnessed Fall From China, JILIN, H5, 1.37g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908585 BRENHAM, Siderite From Kansas, 11.18 gram, nice one! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295901195 Rare Type, H3.5, WELLMAN (f), Texas, 1.08g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295901192 NEW), LA LUZ, New Mexico, H4, LTKW, 4.04g, This one is cool! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295898061 (New) NWA 4952, L/LL4-5, Brecciated, 2.34g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295901184 Seldom Available GRUVER, Texas, H4, 6.48g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295898056 RARE, SILVERTON, Texas, H4, LTKW, 0.75 gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295893946 Best Wishes and Thanks Michael Cottingham From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Fri Jan 9 15:44:19 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 12:44:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pultusk ID card question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <716045.6874.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Paul and List, Thank you for the very quick responses. A List member mentioned McCarthy Taylor but this does not ring a bell with me. Rob Elliot was mentioned as having some labeled with a "P" and most curious of all was Paul's reference to Prisoner Pultusk Peas. Forgive my ignorance, but what does this Mean? Somebody also mentioned that MT-11 (Mathew 11)could be a bible reference to a meteorite shower. I do not generally collect falls but do find the history fascinating. Best Regards, Adam --- On Fri, 1/9/09, LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com wrote: > From: LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pultusk ID card question > To: raremeteorites at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 12:28 PM > Great looking Pultusk specimens. Can't tell you > who's label it is, but all > those little "P"'s painted on them....well, > what you have there is a > collection of Prisoner Pultusk Peas. > > Regards, as always, > > Paul Martyn > Savannah GA > > > In a message dated 1/9/2009 3:14:47 P.M. Eastern Standard > Time, > raremeteorites at yahoo.com writes: > > Dear List Members, > > Does anybody recognize what collection or dealer these > Pultusk peas came > from? I was going through my safe and found two small > bottles with Qty 25 of > these weighing a total 69.9 grams. Only one label was > included and it was rolled > inside the bottle. Each stone has a faded "P" > painted on them and the ID > card has a MT-11 designation on it. I remember trading for > these during a Blood > auction about six years ago but forgot what dealer or > collector I got them > from. I seemed to have misplaced my notes or failed to > write them down. If > you traded these to me or recognize the ID card, please > contact me so that I > can update my notes and make these available. > > > Here are some images: > http://themeteoritesite.com/Pultusk-a.jpg > http://themeteoritesite.com/Pultusk-b.jpg > http://themeteoritesite.com/Pultusk-c.jpg > > Thank you and best regards, > > Adam > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See > yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De > cemailfooterNO62) From mikewren at gilanet.com Fri Jan 9 16:36:51 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:36:51 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] NOT AN AD- But An Invite-To See Some SLICES!!! Of Carancas, Peru! Message-ID: <83152515-F7D1-437D-B11E-EE69C1F81110@gilanet.com> Hello, I thought it would be nice to share my photos of The Carancas slices I made from one of my larger fragments. I know most folks out there have a specimen of Carancas in a fragment of 5 grams or less, with a few larger fragments in a few collections. How about slices? Take a look if you have ever wanted to know what it looks like inside...I did, so I painfully took one of my larger fragments ~ 70 grams and walked it over to the saw.... I am happy I did! Priced High and at this time, I don't care if any sell. Just thought since I have not seen any photos of slices... I thought I would share mine with everyone. Take a look... http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history There somewhere in my store... just type in Carancas in the search box. Best Wishes and Thanks Michael Cottingham From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jan 9 17:25:35 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:25:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Selects Research Teams for Lunar Science Institute Message-ID: <200901092225.OAA08520@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Jan. 09, 2009 Dwayne Brown Headquarters, Washington 202-358-1726 dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov Michael Mewhinney Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif. 650-604-3937 michael.s.mewhinney at nasa.gov RELEASE: 09-004 NASA SELECTS RESEARCH TEAMS FOR LUNAR SCIENCE INSTITUTE MOFFETT FIELD, Calif. -- NASA has selected seven academic and research teams as initial members of the agency's Lunar Science Institute. The institute supports scientific research to supplement and extend existing NASA lunar science programs in coordination with U.S. space exploration policy. The selection of the members encompasses academic institutions, non-profit research institutes, private companies, NASA centers and other government laboratories. Selections were based on a competitive evaluation process that began with the release of a cooperative agreement notice in June 2008. The next solicitation opportunity for new members will take place in approximately two years. "We are extremely pleased with the response of the science community and the high quality of proposals received," said David Morrison, the institute's interim director at NASA's Ames Research Center at Moffett Field, Calif. "The institute represents a big step forward in developing a new generation of lunar scientists." The selected initial member teams are: - The Moon as Cornerstone to the Terrestrial Planets: The Formative Years; principal investigator Carle Pieters, Brown University in Providence, R.I. - Scientific and Exploration Potential of the Lunar Poles; principal investigator Ben Bussey, Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory in Laurel, Md. - Impact Processes in the Origin and Evolution of the Moon: New Sample-driven Perspectives; principal investigator David Kring, Lunar and Planetary Institute in Houston - Dynamic Response of the Environment at the Moon; principal investigator William Farrell, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. - Understanding the Formation and Bombardment History of the Moon; principal investigator William Bottke, Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colo. - Lunar University Node for Astrophysics Research: Exploring the Cosmos from the Moon; principal investigator Jack Burns, University of Colorado in Boulder. - NASA Lunar Science Institute: Colorado Center for Lunar Dust and Atmospheric Studies; principal investigator Mihaly Horanyi, University of Colorado in Boulder "We look forward to solid contributions from these teams," said Jim Green, director of the Planetary Division at NASA Headquarters in Washington. "These are some of the key individuals who will be vital to NASA successfully conducting the ambitious activities of returning to the moon with robots and humans." Teams were selected from 33 proposals. Based and managed at Ames, the lunar facility is a virtual institute, enabling the newly selected members to remain at their home institutions. Partnerships and collaborations among members are highly encouraged and facilitated through a variety of proven networking tools, such as frequent videoconferences. Opened in April 2008, the facility is modeled after the NASA Astrobiology Institute, also based at Ames. That institute is a virtual facility that has successfully sustained a productive research program for more than a decade. The newly selected Lunar Institute teams, along with the international associate and affiliate teams, have members working together throughout the world. The institutes are supported by the Science Mission Directorate and Exploration Systems Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters in Washington. For further information on the institute and lunar science visit: http://lunarscience.nasa.gov -end- From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jan 9 17:28:44 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 14:28:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet Lulin (C/2007 N3) Is Approaching Message-ID: <200901092228.OAA09271@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Space Weather News for Jan. 9, 2009 http://spaceweather.com APPROACHING COMET: Comet Lulin (C/2007 N3), discovered in 2007 by a collaborative team of Taiwanese and Chinese astronomers, is u swinging around the sun and approaching Earth. The photogenic comet has a bright tail and an "anti-tail" visible in mid-sized backyard telescopes. At closest approach in February, Comet Lulin is expected to brighten to naked-eye visibility. Visit http://Spaceweather.com for sky maps, pictures and more information. [snip] From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jan 9 19:36:14 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2009 19:36:14 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Coulee photo gallery In-Reply-To: <26AA31B0-6A7C-42A5-9966-89770D7CF6C3@gilanet.com> References: <26AA31B0-6A7C-42A5-9966-89770D7CF6C3@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <9brfm4hhu2d8qt1jn8u78f2nkg522deo12@4ax.com> http://skyriver.ca/astro/bruce/meteorite.htm From schoner at mybluelight.com Fri Jan 9 19:40:28 2009 From: schoner at mybluelight.com (Steve Schoner) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:40:28 GMT Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? Message-ID: <20090109.174028.1463.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Yes, I would love to return there. The Atacama is spectacular. Did any notice, sans the Pisco, the night sky? I don't think I have ever seen such anywhere, The Magellanic Clouds, the amazing meteors, just normal run of the mill ones that actually lit the ground. San Pedro de Atacama, what a place. I have some stories to tell of that place the night Marvin Killgore, his friend and me stayed there (actually because of some local festival we camped outside of town.) Marvin is the one to lead a trip out there, for sure. Pure fun, an unforgettable experience... Especially after he mixes up a coke 50-50 pisco and gave it me without warning as we were camping at Imilac. 11,000 feet and that go real good together. Real good... And I had a great deal of "fun" setting up my campsite and they had a lot of fun watching me stagger through it. Amazingly, I had no hangover the next morning when were were to search the field again. I found 8 kg of meteorites in four days of solid searching. And lastly, what about the Antofagasta airport? I remember that there was a mine field surrounding it, big fences with signs stating something like: "PELIGRO EL MINO" And I recall to my astonishment a tombstone over the fence line, at the edge of what looked like a crater. Some lout did not heed the sign, I suppose. Now why would they want a mine field around that airport literally out in the middle of nowhere? Steve Schoner IMCA 4470 ____________________________________________________________ Want to be an interior designer? Click here to get info about top interior design schools. http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/PnY6rzHYkye2uYYdHkRftmCeBYA4e4NTKegUbxiUS0POidnsQxaw8/ From roxfromspace at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 22:15:29 2009 From: roxfromspace at gmail.com (Phil Morgan) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 20:15:29 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] impressions...achondrite? In-Reply-To: <70baf8d20901091908h743193f6q4b3226401c478866@mail.gmail.com> References: <70baf8d20901091908h743193f6q4b3226401c478866@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <70baf8d20901091915t368833aeo9dd1a2ac085787b@mail.gmail.com> apologies if this shows up twice but I forgot to send plain text the first time and assume it won't make it. Hello everyone, I received some small unusual stones in a batch of NWA's a while back. I figured they were to small to find anything out but am too curious to let it go entirely. I know just looking at pictures is problematic but am just looking for impressions. Could these be something other than ordinary chondrites? I posted a couple of pictures here: http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/pkmorgan/mystery/ The first two are halves of the same stone - one polished and the other rough cut. They are approximately 20mm long. The third is an even smaller windowed stone about 12mm long. Thoughts on or off-list appreciated. Flames off-list please :-) Regards, Phil From info at meteorites.com.au Fri Jan 9 22:39:29 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 14:39:29 +1100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Monthly Favourite - July 2008 Message-ID: http://www.meteorites.com.au/favourite/july2008.html Cheers, Jeff Kuyken Meteorites Australia www.meteorites.com.au Director - I.M.C.A. Inc. www.imca.cc From info at meteorites.com.au Fri Jan 9 23:21:14 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:21:14 +1100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Monthly Favourite - July 2008 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EBA3C09BC98438C81DED716CBC258CE@JeffPC> For those wondering... yes July 2008... your calendars and computers are fine! Still a bit behind but working on it! ;-) Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Kuyken" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:39 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Monthly Favourite - July 2008 > http://www.meteorites.com.au/favourite/july2008.html > > Cheers, > > Jeff Kuyken > Meteorites Australia > www.meteorites.com.au > Director - I.M.C.A. Inc. > www.imca.cc > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Sat Jan 10 03:48:44 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:48:44 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD SALE Meteorite Auctions ending on ebay today 1/10 through 1/15 Message-ID: <055e01c97300$3f262af0$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Hello List Members, I hope everyone is having a great weekend! I have several ebay auctions ending today 1/10 through 1/15. Please take a look. BARWELL METEORITE 1.4 gm L6 RARE 1965 COA IMCA ENGLAND BEAUTIFUL SPECIMEN STONY, OLIVINE-HYPERSTHENE CHONDRITE Item number: 280299991277 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280299991277&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=018 AGOULT METEORITE .61g IMCA ACHONDRITE EUCRITE RARE RARE NICE PART SLICE IMCA COA AEUC STONE ACHONDRITE EUCRITE Item number: 270325729519 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270325729519&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=017 BRUDERHEIM METEORITE 14.15g L6 RARE CRUST IMCA CANADA LARGE BEAUTIFUL SPECIMEN ALBERTA, CANADA IMCA COA RARE Item number: 280300266771 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280300266771&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=018 KAINSAZ METEORITE 1.652 g CO3 RARE 1937 COA IMCA RUSSIA BEAUTIFUL SPECIMEN CO3 TARTARSTAN REPUBLIC, RUSSIA Item number: 280300532216 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280300532216 BENSOUR METEORITE 1.652g LL6 RARE COA IMCA BLACK CRUST BEAUTIFUL SPECIMEN LL6 MOROCCO GREAT STONE FUSION CRUST Item number: 270327505662 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270327505662&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=017 BILANGA METEORITE ACHONDRITE DIOGENITE 7.g CRUST IMCA BURKINA FASO FUSION CRUST COA ACHONDRITE DIOGENITE RARE Item number: 270327962334 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270327962334&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=017 EL HAMMAMI METEORITE 29.2gm COA IMCA BLACK FUSION CRUST LARGE BEAUTIFUL H5/6 MAURITANIA GREAT LARGE CRUST SLICE Item number: 270327897200 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270327897200&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=017 ACFER 209 METEORITE .332 g CR2 RARE COA IMCA BEAUTIFUL SPECIMEN ALGERIA CR2 Item number: 270327948008 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270327948008&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=017 Thanks for looking! Brian Cox IMCA # 6387 searchingforfun on ebay From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 02:02:06 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 23:02:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Gobi and Meteorite Recovery...was Progress or ruination? Message-ID: <121847.20202.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> --- On Fri, 1/9/09, Michael Gilmer wrote: > BTW, shouldn't the Gobi be a good source of meteorites? The Gobi has become a very researched area in the last 2 decades for its dinosaur fossil deposits. We would hope that given the amount of dinosaur hunting , it would also yield a meteorite or two but I haven't heard of any finds being reported. Then again I've not researched specifically, perhaps there are more than I am aware of. I have read --but can't confirm where-- that the Gobi is not a producer of meteorites because: 1.AGE: While parts of the Gobi date back to 20-30 my, by in large, the Gobi we know today isn't so old - its youngish undisturbed "apron" for collecting hasn't been lain out open to receive the heavenly fruits as long as the Sahara's has been. It certainly has an older core but human induced desertification is responsible for making it the 4th largest desert. The Gobi lies in the rain shadow of the somewhat young Himalayans--it is getting dryer over time. One would need to look at its paleoclimate since the last ice retreat for comparison to the Sahara's climate and expansion to spot the differences. The Gobi plunges to -40 degrees in winter so the thaw freeze cycle is more a weathering factor there than in the Sahara. Both have grown under human occupation, so if any stash of meteorites are to be found we should be looking in the oldest regions--except for the next caveat. 2.SAND vs. ROCK cover. Gobi Bedrock Geology is more exposed than in North Africa. The existing sand dunes in the Gobi are semi-rare in the Gobi as compared to the Sahara. We know that the migration of sand dunes has a preserving effect on Saharan meteorites buffering them from extremes. The dunes of the Gobi are more localized in basins like those of Colorado for example. Elton From parkforestmet at hotmail.com Sat Jan 10 02:34:51 2009 From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:34:51 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Who is The 5th Cylon? Highlights Added For Your Ease and Pleasure! Message-ID: Pardon me? I've seen a lot of things advertised on this list, mostly meteorites at least. Now we're selling propylactics? Is this a gas station? _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012009 From psc2410xi at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 07:10:17 2009 From: psc2410xi at yahoo.com (Don Rawlings) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:10:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? Message-ID: <42279.20101.qm@web59305.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Typical Corporate greed. No different than here in the US. Have you ever seen an arial view of the Yellowstone - Idaho border? Clear cut right up to the National Park border. Only 10 more days until we get rid of the criminal regime in America and maybe some things can change a little. Don Rawlings --- On Fri, 1/9/09, Michael Farmer wrote: From: Michael Farmer Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 11:04 AM Sad, I was there on top of that rock a few years ago. San Pedro de Atacama is a fantastic town, a little like the wild west, with dirt streets, no water (all water is trucked in) and dodgy looking people. I had more fun there than can be explained. To have Hollywood types jetting down there to stay in a spa just sucks in my opinion. The geysers were amazing, typical that man would destroy them to make more money mining. Oh well. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 1/9/09, Michael Gilmer wrote: > From: Michael Gilmer > Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 8:57 AM > I have mixed feelings about this story : > > http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1642444_1870349_1870342,00.html > > I guess we'll be dodging errant golfballs and hearing > cell phones > ring while walking around one of the more remote places on > the Earth. :( > > I wonder if any of these wealthy tourists realize they are > visiting > a famous strewnfield? > > Regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > > > >? ? ??? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From almitt at kconline.com Sat Jan 10 07:20:50 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitterling) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:20:50 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad In-Reply-To: <001f01c9727d$d5c25110$4001a8c0@Jimscomputer> References: <001f01c9727d$d5c25110$4001a8c0@Jimscomputer> Message-ID: <04FDED56650542D28E5CE273C647C588@StarmanPC> Greetings Jim and list members, I read your Meteorite Times article (under Jim's Fragments) on the making of this book and found it very interesting. I think that Meteor(ite) Crater is a place that is dear to all of us who collect and is a big part of our hobby. It will be nice to see your research on this historical place in book form. I hope others will take the time to read Jim's article on this subject and consider his book. All my best! Here is a link: http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Tobin" To: "Meteorite list" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad > Well this is a first for me. An advertisement. > > My greatly expanded book on Meteor Crater is complete and available for > purchase. > > Included in the volume are reprints of the original reports on the crater > by Barringer, Thilgman, and Gilbert. The cost of these papers alone would > be several times the cost of my book were you to buy the reports today. > > But, the narrative tours of the rim and the floor should be very > entertaining for anyone who has seen the crater but especially for people > who have not. I tried to make them as close to being there walking as I > could. You can not go to most of those sites at the crater anymore. > > The book is pretty rich in photographs and stuffed with information. > > It can be seen and bought at: > > http://www.cafepress.com/Craterbook > > > Looking forward to greeting many of you at Tucson in about a month. > > Best regards, Jim Tobin From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sat Jan 10 07:42:15 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 04:42:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 10, 2009 Message-ID: <8322654.900791231591335843.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_10_2009.html From grf2 at verizon.net Sat Jan 10 08:40:03 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:40:03 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet Lulin (C/2007 N3) Is Approaching References: <200901092228.OAA09271@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: Thanks Ron. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Baalke" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 5:28 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet Lulin (C/2007 N3) Is Approaching > > > Space Weather News for Jan. 9, 2009 > http://spaceweather.com > > APPROACHING COMET: Comet Lulin (C/2007 N3), discovered in 2007 > by a collaborative team of Taiwanese and Chinese astronomers, is u > swinging around the sun and approaching Earth. The photogenic comet > has a bright tail and an "anti-tail" visible in mid-sized backyard > telescopes. At closest approach in February, Comet Lulin is > expected to brighten to naked-eye visibility. > Visit http://Spaceweather.com for sky maps, pictures and more > information. > > [snip] > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mpg444 at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 09:13:34 2009 From: mpg444 at yahoo.com (Mike Groetz) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:13:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Scientists Publish 1st Ever Evidence of Asteroids with Earth-like Crust Message-ID: <384820.47606.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://media-newswire.com/release_1083611.html (Media-Newswire.com) - COLLEGE PARK, Md. - Two rare meteorites found in Antarctica two years ago are from a previously unknown, ancient asteroid with an outer layer or crust similar in composition to the crust of Earth's continents, reports a research team primarily composed of geochemists from the University of Maryland. Published in the January 8 issue of the journal Nature, this is the first ever finding of material from an asteroid with a crust like Earth's. The discovery also represents the oldest example of rock with this composition ever found. These meteorites point "to previously unrecognized diversity" of materials formed early in the history of the Solar System, write authors James Day, Richard Ash, Jeremy Bellucci, William McDonough and Richard Walker of the University of Maryland; Yang Liu and Lawrence Taylor of the University of Tennessee and Douglas Rumble III of the Carnegie Institution for Science. James Day looking at a portion of the meteorite in the University of Maryland's isotope geochemistry lab. In the background is a mass spectrometer used to analyze the meteorite samples. Prof. James Day looking at a portion of the meteorite in the University of Maryland's isotope geochemistry lab. In the background is a mass spectrometer used to analyze the meteorite samples. "What is most unusual about these rocks is that they have compositions similar to Earth's andesite continental crust -- what the rock beneath our feet is made of," said first author Day, who is a research scientist in Maryland's department of geology. "No meteorites like this have ever been seen before." Day explained that his team focused their investigations on how such different Solar System bodies could have crusts with such similar compositions. "We show that this occurred because of limited melting of the asteroid, and thus illustrate that the formation of andesite crust has occurred in our solar system by processes other than plate tectonics, which is the generally accepted process that created the crust of Earth." The two meteorites (numbered GRA 06128 and GRA 06129) were discovered in the Graves Nunatak Icefield during the US Antarctic Search for Meteorites (ANSMET) 2006/2007 field season. Day and his colleagues immediately recognized that these meteorites were unusual because of elevated contents of a light-colored feldspar mineral called oligoclase. "Our age results point to these rocks being over 4.52 billion years old and that they formed during the birth of the Solar System. Combined with the oxygen isotope data, this age points to their origin from an asteroid rather than a planet," he said. There are a number of asteroids in the asteroid belt that may have properties like the GRA 06128 and GRA 06129 meteorites including the asteroid (2867) Steins, which was studied by the European Space Agency's Rosetta spacecraft during a flyby this past September. These so-called E-type asteroids reflect the Sun's light very brightly, as would be predicted for a body with a crust made of feldspar. According to Day and his colleagues, finding pieces of meteorites with andesite compositions is important because they not only point to a previously unrecognized diversity of Solar System materials, but also to a new mechanism to generate andesite crust. On the present-day Earth, this occurs dominantly through plates colliding and subduction - where one plate slides beneath another. Subduction forces water back into the mantle aiding melting and generating arc volcanoes, such as the Pacific Rim of Fire - in this way new crust is formed. "Our studies of the GRA meteorites suggest similar crust compositions may be formed via melting of materials in planets that are initially volatile- and possibly water-rich, like the Earth probably was when if first formed" said Day." A major uncertainty is how evolved crust formed in the early Solar System and these meteorites are a piece in the puzzle to understanding these processes." This research was funded by the NASA cosmochemistry program. From drtanuki at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 09:30:40 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:30:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Scientists Publish 1st Ever Evidence of Asteroids with Earth-like Crust In-Reply-To: <384820.47606.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <462365.52804.qm@web53204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Mike and List, Here is a link to photos of the Graves Nunataks GRA 06128 and GRA 06129 mentioned in the post by Mike. What fantastic meteorites! http://meteorites.wustl.edu/gra06128.htm Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Mike Groetz wrote: > From: Mike Groetz > Subject: [meteorite-list] Scientists Publish 1st Ever Evidence of Asteroids with Earth-like Crust > To: "Meteorite List" > Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 11:13 PM > http://media-newswire.com/release_1083611.html > > (Media-Newswire.com) - COLLEGE PARK, Md. - Two rare > meteorites found in Antarctica two years ago are from a > previously unknown, ancient asteroid with an outer layer or > crust similar in composition to the crust of Earth's > continents, reports a research team primarily composed of > geochemists from the University of Maryland. > > Published in the January 8 issue of the journal Nature, > this is the first ever finding of material from an asteroid > with a crust like Earth's. The discovery also represents > the oldest example of rock with this composition ever found. > > > These meteorites point "to previously unrecognized > diversity" of materials formed early in the history of > the Solar System, write authors James Day, Richard Ash, > Jeremy Bellucci, William McDonough and Richard Walker of the > University of Maryland; Yang Liu and Lawrence Taylor of the > University of Tennessee and Douglas Rumble III of the > Carnegie Institution for Science. > > James Day looking at a portion of the meteorite in the > University of Maryland's isotope geochemistry lab. In > the background is a mass spectrometer used to analyze the > meteorite samples. Prof. James Day looking at a portion of > the meteorite in the University of Maryland's isotope > geochemistry lab. In the background is a mass spectrometer > used to analyze the meteorite samples. > > "What is most unusual about these rocks is that they > have compositions similar to Earth's andesite > continental crust -- what the rock beneath our feet is made > of," said first author Day, who is a research scientist > in Maryland's department of geology. "No meteorites > like this have ever been seen before." > > Day explained that his team focused their investigations on > how such different Solar System bodies could have crusts > with such similar compositions. "We show that this > occurred because of limited melting of the asteroid, and > thus illustrate that the formation of andesite crust has > occurred in our solar system by processes other than plate > tectonics, which is the generally accepted process that > created the crust of Earth." > > The two meteorites (numbered GRA 06128 and GRA 06129) were > discovered in the Graves Nunatak Icefield during the US > Antarctic Search for Meteorites (ANSMET) 2006/2007 field > season. Day and his colleagues immediately recognized that > these meteorites were unusual because of elevated contents > of a light-colored feldspar mineral called oligoclase. > "Our age results point to these rocks being over 4.52 > billion years old and that they formed during the birth of > the Solar System. Combined with the oxygen isotope data, > this age points to their origin from an asteroid rather than > a planet," he said. > > There are a number of asteroids in the asteroid belt that > may have properties like the GRA 06128 and GRA 06129 > meteorites including the asteroid (2867) Steins, which was > studied by the European Space Agency's Rosetta > spacecraft during a flyby this past September. These > so-called E-type asteroids reflect the Sun's light very > brightly, as would be predicted for a body with a crust made > of feldspar. > > According to Day and his colleagues, finding pieces of > meteorites with andesite compositions is important because > they not only point to a previously unrecognized diversity > of Solar System materials, but also to a new mechanism to > generate andesite crust. On the present-day Earth, this > occurs dominantly through plates colliding and subduction - > where one plate slides beneath another. Subduction forces > water back into the mantle aiding melting and generating arc > volcanoes, such as the Pacific Rim of Fire - in this way new > crust is formed. > > "Our studies of the GRA meteorites suggest similar > crust compositions may be formed via melting of materials in > planets that are initially volatile- and possibly > water-rich, like the Earth probably was when if first > formed" said Day." A major uncertainty is how > evolved crust formed in the early Solar System and these > meteorites are a piece in the puzzle to understanding these > processes." > > This research was funded by the NASA cosmochemistry > program. > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at meteorites.com.au Sat Jan 10 09:32:49 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 01:32:49 +1100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Scientists Publish 1st Ever Evidence of Asteroidswith Earth-like Crust In-Reply-To: <384820.47606.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <384820.47606.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hey all, Does anyone know if there are any Oxygen Isotope results available? Where do these plot? Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Groetz" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:13 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Scientists Publish 1st Ever Evidence of Asteroidswith Earth-like Crust > http://media-newswire.com/release_1083611.html > > (Media-Newswire.com) - COLLEGE PARK, Md. - Two rare meteorites found in > Antarctica two years ago are from a previously unknown, ancient asteroid > with an outer layer or crust similar in composition to the crust of > Earth's continents, reports a research team primarily composed of > geochemists from the University of Maryland. > > Published in the January 8 issue of the journal Nature, this is the first > ever finding of material from an asteroid with a crust like Earth's. The > discovery also represents the oldest example of rock with this composition > ever found. > > These meteorites point "to previously unrecognized diversity" of materials > formed early in the history of the Solar System, write authors James Day, > Richard Ash, Jeremy Bellucci, William McDonough and Richard Walker of the > University of Maryland; Yang Liu and Lawrence Taylor of the University of > Tennessee and Douglas Rumble III of the Carnegie Institution for Science. > > James Day looking at a portion of the meteorite in the University of > Maryland's isotope geochemistry lab. In the background is a mass > spectrometer used to analyze the meteorite samples. Prof. James Day > looking at a portion of the meteorite in the University of Maryland's > isotope geochemistry lab. In the background is a mass spectrometer used to > analyze the meteorite samples. > > "What is most unusual about these rocks is that they have compositions > similar to Earth's andesite continental crust -- what the rock beneath our > feet is made of," said first author Day, who is a research scientist in > Maryland's department of geology. "No meteorites like this have ever been > seen before." > > Day explained that his team focused their investigations on how such > different Solar System bodies could have crusts with such similar > compositions. "We show that this occurred because of limited melting of > the asteroid, and thus illustrate that the formation of andesite crust has > occurred in our solar system by processes other than plate tectonics, > which is the generally accepted process that created the crust of Earth." > > The two meteorites (numbered GRA 06128 and GRA 06129) were discovered in > the Graves Nunatak Icefield during the US Antarctic Search for Meteorites > (ANSMET) 2006/2007 field season. Day and his colleagues immediately > recognized that these meteorites were unusual because of elevated contents > of a light-colored feldspar mineral called oligoclase. "Our age results > point to these rocks being over 4.52 billion years old and that they > formed during the birth of the Solar System. Combined with the oxygen > isotope data, this age points to their origin from an asteroid rather than > a planet," he said. > > There are a number of asteroids in the asteroid belt that may have > properties like the GRA 06128 and GRA 06129 meteorites including the > asteroid (2867) Steins, which was studied by the European Space Agency's > Rosetta spacecraft during a flyby this past September. These so-called > E-type asteroids reflect the Sun's light very brightly, as would be > predicted for a body with a crust made of feldspar. > > According to Day and his colleagues, finding pieces of meteorites with > andesite compositions is important because they not only point to a > previously unrecognized diversity of Solar System materials, but also to a > new mechanism to generate andesite crust. On the present-day Earth, this > occurs dominantly through plates colliding and subduction - where one > plate slides beneath another. Subduction forces water back into the mantle > aiding melting and generating arc volcanoes, such as the Pacific Rim of > Fire - in this way new crust is formed. > > "Our studies of the GRA meteorites suggest similar crust compositions may > be formed via melting of materials in planets that are initially volatile- > and possibly water-rich, like the Earth probably was when if first formed" > said Day." A major uncertainty is how evolved crust formed in the early > Solar System and these meteorites are a piece in the puzzle to > understanding these processes." > > This research was funded by the NASA cosmochemistry program. > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From drtanuki at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 09:43:55 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 06:43:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Scientists Publish 1st Ever Evidence of Asteroidswith Earth-like Crust In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <305849.86503.qm@web53212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Jeff and list, Jeff, a third try. Oxygen isotopic analysis: Z. Sharp, University of New Mexico Oxygen isotopic analyses of three small (2-5 mg) pieces of GRA 06129 yielded the following results which fall in the Earth, Moon and enstatite meteorite field: ?17O = 3.04, ?18O = 6.01, ?18O = -0.09 ?17O = 2.89, ?18O = 5.63, ?18O = -0.03 ?17O = 3.05, ?18O = 6.01, ?18O = -0.07 [where ?18O = ?17O - 0.52 x ?18O] Dirk...Tokyo --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Jeff Kuyken wrote: > From: Jeff Kuyken > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Scientists Publish 1st Ever Evidence of Asteroidswith Earth-like Crust > To: mpg444 at yahoo.com, "Meteorite List" > Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 11:32 PM > Hey all, > > Does anyone know if there are any Oxygen Isotope results > available? Where do these plot? > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Groetz" > > To: "Meteorite List" > > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 1:13 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Scientists Publish 1st Ever > Evidence of Asteroidswith Earth-like Crust > > > > http://media-newswire.com/release_1083611.html > > > > (Media-Newswire.com) - COLLEGE PARK, Md. - Two rare > meteorites found in Antarctica two years ago are from a > previously unknown, ancient asteroid with an outer layer or > crust similar in composition to the crust of Earth's > continents, reports a research team primarily composed of > geochemists from the University of Maryland. > > > > Published in the January 8 issue of the journal > Nature, this is the first ever finding of material from an > asteroid with a crust like Earth's. The discovery also > represents the oldest example of rock with this composition > ever found. > > > > These meteorites point "to previously > unrecognized diversity" of materials formed early in > the history of the Solar System, write authors James Day, > Richard Ash, Jeremy Bellucci, William McDonough and Richard > Walker of the University of Maryland; Yang Liu and Lawrence > Taylor of the University of Tennessee and Douglas Rumble III > of the Carnegie Institution for Science. > > > > James Day looking at a portion of the meteorite in the > University of Maryland's isotope geochemistry lab. In > the background is a mass spectrometer used to analyze the > meteorite samples. Prof. James Day looking at a portion of > the meteorite in the University of Maryland's isotope > geochemistry lab. In the background is a mass spectrometer > used to analyze the meteorite samples. > > > > "What is most unusual about these rocks is that > they have compositions similar to Earth's andesite > continental crust -- what the rock beneath our feet is made > of," said first author Day, who is a research scientist > in Maryland's department of geology. "No meteorites > like this have ever been seen before." > > > > Day explained that his team focused their > investigations on how such different Solar System bodies > could have crusts with such similar compositions. "We > show that this occurred because of limited melting of the > asteroid, and thus illustrate that the formation of andesite > crust has occurred in our solar system by processes other > than plate tectonics, which is the generally accepted > process that created the crust of Earth." > > > > The two meteorites (numbered GRA 06128 and GRA 06129) > were discovered in the Graves Nunatak Icefield during the US > Antarctic Search for Meteorites (ANSMET) 2006/2007 field > season. Day and his colleagues immediately recognized that > these meteorites were unusual because of elevated contents > of a light-colored feldspar mineral called oligoclase. > "Our age results point to these rocks being over 4.52 > billion years old and that they formed during the birth of > the Solar System. Combined with the oxygen isotope data, > this age points to their origin from an asteroid rather than > a planet," he said. > > > > There are a number of asteroids in the asteroid belt > that may have properties like the GRA 06128 and GRA 06129 > meteorites including the asteroid (2867) Steins, which was > studied by the European Space Agency's Rosetta > spacecraft during a flyby this past September. These > so-called E-type asteroids reflect the Sun's light very > brightly, as would be predicted for a body with a crust made > of feldspar. > > > > According to Day and his colleagues, finding pieces of > meteorites with andesite compositions is important because > they not only point to a previously unrecognized diversity > of Solar System materials, but also to a new mechanism to > generate andesite crust. On the present-day Earth, this > occurs dominantly through plates colliding and subduction - > where one plate slides beneath another. Subduction forces > water back into the mantle aiding melting and generating arc > volcanoes, such as the Pacific Rim of Fire - in this way new > crust is formed. > > > > "Our studies of the GRA meteorites suggest > similar crust compositions may be formed via melting of > materials in planets that are initially volatile- and > possibly water-rich, like the Earth probably was when if > first formed" said Day." A major uncertainty is > how evolved crust formed in the early Solar System and these > meteorites are a piece in the puzzle to understanding these > processes." > > > > This research was funded by the NASA cosmochemistry > program. > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From illaenus at wp.pl Sat Jan 10 09:44:18 2009 From: illaenus at wp.pl (Tomasz Jakubowski) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:44:18 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD Morasko Message-ID: <4968b442212d03.87559791@wp.pl> Dear List Members, I have three extraordinary Morasko (IAB) specimens for sale. The first specimen is covered with beautiful regmaglipts and remnants of fusion crust. The weight of the specimen is 5,4 kg.Specimen displays the best-preserved regmaglipts of all three specimens. Photos are available at: http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/Morasko5Kg The second, even larger one, has the weight of 10 kg and also displays remarkable remnants of fusion crust. Photos are available at: http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/Morasko10Kg# The last, 2kg one. Photos are available at: - http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/Morasko2Kg# All three specimens were found many years and have been very stable since. If you have any questions, I can be reached at illaenus at gmail.com Kind Regards Tomasz Jakubowski IMCA #2321 ---------------------------------------------------- W?oszczowa, Pcim Dolny, Zimna W?dka? Niewa?ne gdzie mieszkasz - tutaj wrzu? fot? z miejsca, w kt?rym mieszkasz: http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fcorto.www.wp.pl%2Fas%2Fmapapolski.html&sid=603 From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 10:39:20 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 07:39:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible fall in Louisiana. Message-ID: <999572.36435.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.shreveporttimes.com/article/20090110/NEWS01/901100348/1060 Interesting. Michael Farmer From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Jan 10 11:04:25 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:04:25 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible fall in Louisiana. References: <999572.36435.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <651986607FEF4E26953A4A10AAFB3DB0@bellatrix> All the reports seem to suggest the flash and explosion were simultaneous, which doesn't sound much like a meteor. Given the location, the exploding meth lab theory sounds more likely . Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Farmer" To: Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 8:39 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible fall in Louisiana. > http://www.shreveporttimes.com/article/20090110/NEWS01/901100348/1060 > > > > Interesting. > Michael Farmer From epgrondine at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 11:50:19 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:50:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] 536 CE climate collapse Message-ID: <265276.30546.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Tracy - David Keys had been arguing that volcanic eruption caused this for a long time, but the ice core data had a gap. Since the volcanic eruption was not evidenced in the new ice core, but comet impact was, his hypothesis was shot shown to be false, while Mike Baillies hypothesis that the climate collapse was due to cometary dust loading was shown to be correct. The impacts came as a surprise. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From geoking at notkin.net Sat Jan 10 12:14:06 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 10:14:06 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Tucson '09, eBay Gems, Sikhote-Alin Postcard, SAs with Holes, Website Sale Message-ID: Dear Listees: Greetings all. Lots of news to share this week. EBAY: For those who are interested I have some particularly nice pieces on eBay at the moment, with most of them closing tomorrow. Of note is a gorgeous Sikhote-Alin individual with a natural hole right in the center: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170291994361 And fans of oriented irons should take a look at this exquisite Sikhote-Alin bullet with AMAZING flow lines: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170292998925 Also: Allende, a 400-gram NWA, a Gibeon crystal, Campo, Gold Basin, Taza with flow lines, a special slipcase edition of the "Oscar E. Monnig Meteorite Collection Catalog," one of my little Draeger- Nininger Odessas, and lots more. As always, all my lots are no reserve. All items up for auction can be seen here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZaerolitemeteorites Instant recap with photos live and direct from Meteorite.com: http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-dealers/dealer-listings/aerolite.htm END-OF-YEAR SALE: I am also running a big, big sale on my website for the next few days only, with scores of meteorites and impactites at 10 to 50% off, including some really nice Campos, Libyan Desert Glass, gorgeous Seymchan transitional siderite/pallasite slices and more: See all sale items here: http://www.aerolite.org/sale.htm SIKHOTE-ALINS WITH HOLES: I recently acquired a few stellar Sikhote-Alins with natural holes, and I know these items are very popular with some of you. Pictures here: http://www.aerolite.org/sikhote-alin-meteorites.htm#holes TUCSON 2009: For those of you planning on being in Tucson for the 2009 gem show, please stop by and visit me in Room 230 at the InnSuites. We will be open from January 31 through February 14. As usual, I will sharing a showroom with my good friend Anne Black who recently celebrated her tenth birthday. Oh, actually that was her company, sorry : ) Anyway, many happy returns to Impactika -- ten years in the world's nuttiest business. Congrats. Details, hours, Yahoo map yourself to our hotel and so on, here: http://www.aerolite.org/tucson-gem-and-mineral-show.htm As always, Anne and I invite you to join us for wine, refreshments, music, and generally living the good life every evening at sunset. Here is our print ad for the 2009 show: http://www.aerolite.org/tucson-2009-ad.htm I will be posting more detailed information about the Tucson show, the big party, etc., shortly. LIMITED EDITION METEORITE POSTCARD: Finally, I'd like to share news of a new collectible meteorite postcard with you. I am a great fan of vintage natural history illustrations, and I recently created a limited edition Sikhote-Alin postcard based on Victorian-era hand tinted mineral illustrations. It is called "Eleven Space Sculptures" and you can learn all about it here: http://www.aerolite.org/meteorite-postcard.htm That's it for today. Enjoy the weekend, and thank you for reading. Cheers from Tucson, the Meteorite Capital of the World, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org From psc2410xi at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 12:21:54 2009 From: psc2410xi at yahoo.com (psc2410xi at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:21:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? Message-ID: <734575.70239.qm@web59311.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Typical Corporate greed.? No different than here in the US.? Have you ever seen an arial view of the Yellowstone - Idaho border?? Clear cut right up to the National Park border. Only 10 more days until we get rid of the criminal regime in America and maybe some things can change a little. Don Rawlings --- On Fri, 1/9/09, Michael Farmer wrote: From: Michael Farmer Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 11:04 AM Sad, I was there on top of that rock a few years ago. San Pedro de Atacama is a fantastic town, a little like the wild west, with dirt streets, no water (all water is trucked in) and dodgy looking people. I had more fun there than can be explained. To have Hollywood types jetting down there to stay in a spa just sucks in my opinion. The geysers were amazing, typical that man would destroy them to make more money mining. Oh well. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 1/9/09, Michael Gilmer wrote: > From: Michael Gilmer > Subject: [meteorite-list] Progress or ruination? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 8:57 AM > I have mixed feelings about this story : > > http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1642444_1870349_1870342,00.html > > I guess we'll be dodging errant golfballs and hearing > cell phones > ring while walking around one of the more remote places on > the Earth. :( > > I wonder if any of these wealthy tourists realize they are > visiting > a famous strewnfield? > > Regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale > .......................................................... > > > >? ? ??? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 12:41:55 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 09:41:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible Louisiana Fall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <678902.40581.qm@web58406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi Mike and list, Thanks for the heads-up, I had not heard this yet. But right now I am in no position to chase this bolide - unfortunately. We have too much family drama going on for me to get out and track it down. I have to agree that the locals in that area are quite backward (not all, but many) and the terrain in that area is not friendly to meteorites. If anything is going to be recovered, it will have to be soon, or it will be forever lost. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG PS - if I hear anything else promising about this story in the Louisiana media, I will pass it along. ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Farmer" To: Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 8:39 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible fall in Louisiana. > http://www.shreveporttimes.com/article/20090110/NEWS01/901100348/1060 > > > > Interesting. > Michael Farmer From moutinho at bol.com.br Sat Jan 10 13:20:06 2009 From: moutinho at bol.com.br (=?utf-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Moutinho?=) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:20:06 -0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Brazilian meteorites for sale Message-ID: <4968e6d6ed8e8_2d23155555587eb44d9@winter19.tmail> Hello, I have some nice Braziliam meteorites for sale: Santa Vitoria do Palmar 29.5 g slice - starting at 3 USD/g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330298928255&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=014 Uruacu 133g whole with nice patina - starting at 0.5 USD/g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330299890896&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=014 BIG Uruacu 1,725 Kg at 0.6 USD/g http://amoutinho.multiply.com/photos/album/19/Uruacu_1.725kg I also have some Patos de Minas slices for sale for 7 USD/g http://amoutinho.multiply.com/photos/album/20/Patos_de_Minas Thanks, Andr? Moutinho IMCA #2731 From moutinho at bol.com.br Sat Jan 10 13:34:01 2009 From: moutinho at bol.com.br (=?utf-8?Q?Andr=c3=a9_Moutinho?=) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:34:01 -0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Second biggest Brazilian meteorite picture Message-ID: <4968ea19a0023_5f72155555587eb4388@winter21.tmail> Hello, Sending some pictures of the second biggest Brazilian meteorite (Bendengo is the biggest): http://amoutinho.multiply.com/photos/album/21/CAMPINORTE Some pictures of a fragment I got from the finder: http://amoutinho.multiply.com/photos/album/18 More information (Portuguese only sorry!) http://www.correiobraziliense.com.br/html/sessao_13/2008/11/14/noticia_interna,id_sessao=13&id_noticia=48555/noticia_interna.shtml http://www.dm.com.br/impresso/7680/cidades/55880,meteorito_desperta_cobica_em_goias http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/ciencia/ult306u469229.shtml As CAMPINORTE is very near URUACU (20km), I belive this meteorite can be the uruacu main mass. Cheers, Andr? Moutinho IMCA #2731 From aknoefel at minorplanets.de Sat Jan 10 15:41:28 2009 From: aknoefel at minorplanets.de (=?iso-8859-1?q?=41=6e=64=72=e9=20=4b=6e=f6=66=65=6c?=) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:41:28 +0100 (MET) Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] 'The Meteorites of Mali' Medal/Coin #020 on ebay Message-ID: <200901102041.n0AKfSNg027347@post.webmailer.de> n about 24 hours the auction for coin/medal #020 of the 'Meteorites of Mali' end on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160308581753 Only 100 coins are minted and no more will be produced. In this auction free shipping worldwide is included. This coin/medal contains an authentic sample (slice: 7.0 x 5.1 x 1.5mm, weight 0.20g) of the Chergach Meteorite, fall in the Tombouctou region of Mali in July 2007. coin size: 38mm (1.5") weight: ~19g base metal: zink alloy finish: antique silver The coin came in an acrylic coin capsule and with a certificate of authenticity. Cheers, Andr? Kn?fel Lindenberg/Germany IMCA #4122 From Impactika at aol.com Sat Jan 10 16:38:39 2009 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:38:39 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Message-ID: Thank you Al. And I agree entirely. So I had a chat with Jim. He will have a bunch of books printed and you will find them in my room in Tucson (InnSuites, Room 230) when you get there. Jim will be around too, so I bet he will be willing to sign your book if you ask nice. As Geoff just reminded us, the Show is only THREE weeks away!!! Time flies. Almost time to start packing. See you all there. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 1/10/2009 5:26:39 AM Mountain Standard Time, almitt at kconline.com writes: Greetings Jim and list members, I read your Meteorite Times article (under Jim's Fragments) on the making of this book and found it very interesting. I think that Meteor(ite) Crater is a place that is dear to all of us who collect and is a big part of our hobby. It will be nice to see your research on this historical place in book form. I hope others will take the time to read Jim's article on this subject and consider his book. All my best! Here is a link: http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Tobin" To: "Meteorite list" Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad > Well this is a first for me. An advertisement. > > My greatly expanded book on Meteor Crater is complete and available for > purchase. > > Included in the volume are reprints of the original reports on the crater > by Barringer, Thilgman, and Gilbert. The cost of these papers alone would > be several times the cost of my book were you to buy the reports today. > > But, the narrative tours of the rim and the floor should be very > entertaining for anyone who has seen the crater but especially for people > who have not. I tried to make them as close to being there walking as I > could. You can not go to most of those sites at the crater anymore. > > The book is pretty rich in photographs and stuffed with information. > > It can be seen and bought at: > > http://www.cafepress.com/Craterbook > > > Looking forward to greeting many of you at Tucson in about a month. > > Best regards, Jim Tobin **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) From entropydave at ntlworld.com Sat Jan 10 17:18:50 2009 From: entropydave at ntlworld.com (Dave Harris) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 22:18:50 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Allende slab -36g slab! Message-ID: Just another eBay ad...but nice. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270328529863 dave IMCA #0092 Sec.BIMS. www.bimsociety.org From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 18:06:37 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:06:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <836164.8183.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> This is not a new idea. Mike Baille's book "Exodus to Arthur" makes interesting reading on the idea that comets may have triggered many human catastrophies in the past. His book is based on dendochronology with support from other sources. At the time of publishing c.2000, there was a gap in the Greenland Ice core during the 6th Century. The first third of the book is compelling reading but for me does little to convince me that it was anything other than volcanic eruptions. The latter part of the book is based on written accounts, myths and legends to make a the suggestion that clusters of small comets may have been involved, small fragments arriving in short interval like SL9 did on Jupiter in 1994. He's as objective as he can be but is clearly convinced of the cometary contribution in at least a few cases. Rob McC --- On Fri, 1/9/09, tracy latimer wrote: > From: tracy latimer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? > To: "Paul" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:15 PM > >From what little research I did, I had understood that a > substantial chunk of the sun-blotting fog was actually > 'vog', which outgassed from major eruptions in > Iceland. Iceland underwent several periods of volcanic > activity during the 'Dark Ages', where multiple > volcanic vents burped out stifling clouds of gas. The gas > periodically got so thick and noxious that it poisoned > vegetation, killed animals, and sickened almost everyone > else; there was at least one major exodus of survivors > around 770 a.c.e. > > Tracy Latimer > > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:12:59 -0800 > > From: bristolia at yahoo.com > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered > ancient famine ??? > > > > Comet smashes triggered ancient famine > > January 7, 2009 by Ker Than > > > http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126882.900-comet-smashes-triggered-ancient-famine.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news > > > > Abbott, D. H., P. Biscaye, J. Cole-Dai, and D. Breger, > 2008, > > Magnetite and Silicate Spherules from the GISP2 Core > at the 536 A.D. Horizon > > American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2008, > abstract #PP41B-1454 > > > > > http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&range=1&directget=1&application=fm08&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Findexes%2Ffm08%2Ffm08&maxhits=200&=%22PP41B-1454%22 > > > > and > > > > http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AGUFMPP41B1454A > > > > Yours, > > > > Paul H. > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From aeromadness at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 18:19:27 2009 From: aeromadness at yahoo.com (Harry) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:19:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Quarterly Message-ID: <539627.81889.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I'm looking for some older issues of the meteorite quarterly. If anyone is looking to sell some issues I am looking to buy. Magazines with articles by OR Norton are preferred. From, Harry From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sat Jan 10 18:47:11 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:47:11 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? In-Reply-To: <836164.8183.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <836164.8183.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <50668.71.226.60.25.1231631231.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> While I have not read this book, generally, comets cannot hit the Earth over a short interval like SL9. SL9 was in orbit around Jupiter. It is highly unlikely that a comet could be captured in orbit around Earth. Continuous bombardment on Earth only happens in movies unless there is a massive swarm of objects (like in a meteor shower). The Earth is a moving target, so if one comet piece were to hit the Earth, it is unlikely that a second or third one in a similar orbit would hit, unless the cluster was VERY bunched together. The Earth would be long gone! The Earth's orbital velocity is about 30 km/s and its diameter is about 12,750 km. So the Earth moves its diameter in about 425 seconds. If the comet pieces were farther apart than that, only one piece would hit. Larry On Sat, January 10, 2009 4:06 pm, Rob McCafferty wrote: > This is not a new idea. Mike Baille's book "Exodus to Arthur" makes > interesting reading on the idea that comets may have triggered many human > catastrophies in the past. His book is based on dendochronology with > support from other sources. At the time of publishing c.2000, there was a > gap in the Greenland Ice core during the 6th Century. > > The first third of the book is compelling reading but for me does little > to convince me that it was anything other than volcanic eruptions. The > latter part of the book is based on written accounts, myths and legends > to make a the suggestion that clusters of small comets may have been > involved, small fragments arriving in short interval like SL9 did on > Jupiter in 1994. > He's as objective as he can be but is clearly convinced of the cometary > contribution in at least a few cases. > > Rob McC > > > > --- On Fri, 1/9/09, tracy latimer wrote: > > >> From: tracy latimer >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? >> To: "Paul" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:15 PM >> >>> From what little research I did, I had understood that a >>> >> substantial chunk of the sun-blotting fog was actually 'vog', which >> outgassed from major eruptions in Iceland. Iceland underwent several >> periods of volcanic activity during the 'Dark Ages', where multiple >> volcanic vents burped out stifling clouds of gas. The gas periodically >> got so thick and noxious that it poisoned vegetation, killed animals, >> and sickened almost everyone else; there was at least one major exodus >> of survivors around 770 a.c.e. >> >> Tracy Latimer >> >> >> ---------------------------------------- >> >>> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:12:59 -0800 >>> From: bristolia at yahoo.com >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered >>> >> ancient famine ??? >>> >>> Comet smashes triggered ancient famine >>> January 7, 2009 by Ker Than >>> >>> >> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126882.900-comet-smashes-trigge >> red-ancient-famine.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news >>> >>> Abbott, D. H., P. Biscaye, J. Cole-Dai, and D. Breger, >>> >> 2008, >> >>> Magnetite and Silicate Spherules from the GISP2 Core >>> >> at the 536 A.D. Horizon >>> American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2008, >>> >> abstract #PP41B-1454 >>> >>> >> http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&rang >> e=1&directget=1&application=fm08&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Finde >> xes%2Ffm08%2Ffm08&maxhits=200&=%22PP41B-1454%22 >>> >>> and >>> >>> http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AGUFMPP41B1454A >>> >>> >>> Yours, >>> >>> >>> Paul H. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> >>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Windows Live???: Keep your life in sync. >> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From info at meteorites.com.au Sat Jan 10 19:32:45 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:32:45 +1100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Monthly Favourite - August 2008 Message-ID: <12AD037CE7704FB3BF8521752BD23CC5@JeffPC> http://www.meteorites.com.au/favourite/august2008.html Cheers, Jeff Kuyken Meteorites Australia www.meteorites.com.au Director - I.M.C.A. Inc. www.imca.cc From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Sat Jan 10 23:13:30 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:13:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? In-Reply-To: <50668.71.226.60.25.1231631231.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <560544.92367.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Fair point, but it may well be a poor choice of words on my point. The "Swarms"/"showers" you mention are what are suggested in the book. Several objects arriving in quick sucession are not unusual, however. There is evidene of it happening on most solid bodies. They all have strings of impact craters where many objects obviously arrived in a matter of hours producing chains of craters. My problem with this is that the authour is perhaps suggesting several over the last few millenia. If the "chain" events were that prevalant, one would expect them to dominate on solid bodies and they don't. Your points are well made. I was not aware that SL9 was in orbit of Jupiter. The implications of this are complex and I'll need to check how long for. I Doubt it was for long but even so, how this is related to comets and the earth is beyond me at this time. Rob --- On Sat, 1/10/09, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu wrote: > From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? > To: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com > Cc: "tracy latimer" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 11:47 PM > While I have not read this book, generally, comets cannot > hit the Earth > over a short interval like SL9. SL9 was in orbit around > Jupiter. It is > highly unlikely that a comet could be captured in orbit > around Earth. > Continuous bombardment on Earth only happens in movies > unless there is a > massive swarm of objects (like in a meteor shower). > > The Earth is a moving target, so if one comet piece were to > hit the Earth, > it is unlikely that a second or third one in a similar > orbit would hit, > unless the cluster was VERY bunched together. The Earth > would be long > gone! > > The Earth's orbital velocity is about 30 km/s and its > diameter is about > 12,750 km. So the Earth moves its diameter in about 425 > seconds. If the > comet pieces were farther apart than that, only one piece > would hit. > > Larry > > On Sat, January 10, 2009 4:06 pm, Rob McCafferty wrote: > > This is not a new idea. Mike Baille's book > "Exodus to Arthur" makes > > interesting reading on the idea that comets may have > triggered many human > > catastrophies in the past. His book is based on > dendochronology with > > support from other sources. At the time of publishing > c.2000, there was a > > gap in the Greenland Ice core during the 6th Century. > > > > The first third of the book is compelling reading but > for me does little > > to convince me that it was anything other than > volcanic eruptions. The > > latter part of the book is based on written accounts, > myths and legends > > to make a the suggestion that clusters of small comets > may have been > > involved, small fragments arriving in short interval > like SL9 did on > > Jupiter in 1994. > > He's as objective as he can be but is clearly > convinced of the cometary > > contribution in at least a few cases. > > > > Rob McC > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/9/09, tracy latimer > wrote: > > > > > >> From: tracy latimer > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes > triggered ancient famine ??? > >> To: "Paul" , > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:15 PM > >> > >>> From what little research I did, I had > understood that a > >>> > >> substantial chunk of the sun-blotting fog was > actually 'vog', which > >> outgassed from major eruptions in Iceland. > Iceland underwent several > >> periods of volcanic activity during the 'Dark > Ages', where multiple > >> volcanic vents burped out stifling clouds of gas. > The gas periodically > >> got so thick and noxious that it poisoned > vegetation, killed animals, > >> and sickened almost everyone else; there was at > least one major exodus > >> of survivors around 770 a.c.e. > >> > >> Tracy Latimer > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------- > >> > >>> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:12:59 -0800 > >>> From: bristolia at yahoo.com > >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes > triggered > >>> > >> ancient famine ??? > >>> > >>> Comet smashes triggered ancient famine > >>> January 7, 2009 by Ker Than > >>> > >>> > >> > http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126882.900-comet-smashes-trigge > >> > red-ancient-famine.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news > >>> > >>> Abbott, D. H., P. Biscaye, J. Cole-Dai, and D. > Breger, > >>> > >> 2008, > >> > >>> Magnetite and Silicate Spherules from the > GISP2 Core > >>> > >> at the 536 A.D. Horizon > >>> American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2008, > >>> > >> abstract #PP41B-1454 > >>> > >>> > >> > http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&rang > >> > e=1&directget=1&application=fm08&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Finde > >> > xes%2Ffm08%2Ffm08&maxhits=200&=%22PP41B-1454%22 > >>> > >>> and > >>> > >>> > http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AGUFMPP41B1454A > >>> > >>> > >>> Yours, > >>> > >>> > >>> Paul H. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ______________________________________________ > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> > >>> > >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > _________________________________________________________________ > >> Windows Live???: Keep your life in sync. > >> > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Sun Jan 11 04:49:18 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 9:49:18 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? In-Reply-To: <560544.92367.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090111094918.34DLM.212685.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi Rob, Went to a lecture at our astronomy society about Jupiter and it acting to capture or perturb objects (friend or foe etc) the other night.... and I believe it was said that SL9 only made two passes before it met jupiter again on jupiters next turn around the sun and was thus flung out never to be seen again. eg Jupiter was on the opposite side of the sun on SL9's first time round with no effect and thus was very close 2nd time round and able to change its orbit again. I hope I remembered that right! Graham Ensor, UK ---- Rob McCafferty wrote: > Fair point, but it may well be a poor choice of words on my point. The "Swarms"/"showers" you mention are what are suggested in the book. Several objects arriving in quick sucession are not unusual, however. There is evidene of it happening on most solid bodies. They all have strings of impact craters where many objects obviously arrived in a matter of hours producing chains of craters. My problem with this is that the authour is perhaps suggesting several over the last few millenia. If the "chain" events were that prevalant, one would expect them to dominate on solid bodies and they don't. Your points are well made. I was not aware that SL9 was in orbit of Jupiter. The implications of this are complex and I'll need to check how long for. I Doubt it was for long but even so, how this is related to comets and the earth is beyond me at this time. Rob --- On Sat, 1/10/09, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu wrote: > From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? > To: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com > Cc: "tracy latimer" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 11:47 PM > While I have not read this book, generally, comets cannot > hit the Earth > over a short interval like SL9. SL9 was in orbit around > Jupiter. It is > highly unlikely that a comet could be captured in orbit > around Earth. > Continuous bombardment on Earth only happens in movies > unless there is a > massive swarm of objects (like in a meteor shower). > > The Earth is a moving target, so if one comet piece were to > hit the Earth, > it is unlikely that a second or third one in a similar > orbit would hit, > unless the cluster was VERY bunched together. The Earth > would be long > gone! > > The Earth's orbital velocity is about 30 km/s and its > diameter is about > 12,750 km. So the Earth moves its diameter in about 425 > seconds. If the > comet pieces were farther apart than that, only one piece > would hit. > > Larry > > On Sat, January 10, 2009 4:06 pm, Rob McCafferty wrote: > > This is not a new idea. Mike Baille's book > "Exodus to Arthur" makes > > interesting reading on the idea that comets may have > triggered many human > > catastrophies in the past. His book is based on > dendochronology with > > support from other sources. At the time of publishing > c.2000, there was a > > gap in the Greenland Ice core during the 6th Century. > > > > The first third of the book is compelling reading but > for me does little > > to convince me that it was anything other than > volcanic eruptions. The > > latter part of the book is based on written accounts, > myths and legends > > to make a the suggestion that clusters of small comets > may have been > > involved, small fragments arriving in short interval > like SL9 did on > > Jupiter in 1994. > > He's as objective as he can be but is clearly > convinced of the cometary > > contribution in at least a few cases. > > > > Rob McC > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 1/9/09, tracy latimer > wrote: > > > > > >> From: tracy latimer > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes > triggered ancient famine ??? > >> To: "Paul" , > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:15 PM > >> > >>> From what little research I did, I had > understood that a > >>> > >> substantial chunk of the sun-blotting fog was > actually 'vog', which > >> outgassed from major eruptions in Iceland. > Iceland underwent several > >> periods of volcanic activity during the 'Dark > Ages', where multiple > >> volcanic vents burped out stifling clouds of gas. > The gas periodically > >> got so thick and noxious that it poisoned > vegetation, killed animals, > >> and sickened almost everyone else; there was at > least one major exodus > >> of survivors around 770 a.c.e. > >> > >> Tracy Latimer > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------- > >> > >>> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:12:59 -0800 > >>> From: bristolia at yahoo.com > >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes > triggered > >>> > >> ancient famine ??? > >>> > >>> Comet smashes triggered ancient famine > >>> January 7, 2009 by Ker Than > >>> > >>> > >> > http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126882.900-comet-smashes-trigge > >> > red-ancient-famine.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news > >>> > >>> Abbott, D. H., P. Biscaye, J. Cole-Dai, and D. > Breger, > >>> > >> 2008, > >> > >>> Magnetite and Silicate Spherules from the > GISP2 Core > >>> > >> at the 536 A.D. Horizon > >>> American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2008, > >>> > >> abstract #PP41B-1454 > >>> > >>> > >> > http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&rang > >> > e=1&directget=1&application=fm08&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Finde > >> > xes%2Ffm08%2Ffm08&maxhits=200&=%22PP41B-1454%22 > >>> > >>> and > >>> > >>> > http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AGUFMPP41B1454A > >>> > >>> > >>> Yours, > >>> > >>> > >>> Paul H. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ______________________________________________ > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> > >>> > >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > _________________________________________________________________ > >> Windows Live???: Keep your life in sync. > >> > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_012009 > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sun Jan 11 07:54:41 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 05:54:41 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? In-Reply-To: <20090111094918.34DLM.212685.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> References: <560544.92367.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <20090111094918.34DLM.212685.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Message-ID: <51695.71.226.60.25.1231678481.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi Graham and Rob: Some of this is from memory and some of this I had to look up. David Levy was actually working part time for me at the time doing education outreach, so I know some of the details. 1. As far as I know, scientists still do not know where SL9 came from ("beyond Neptune"). Probably a captured comet that happened to come too close to Jupiter on its first pass or one of its first passes into the inner part of the Solar System. 2. At some point in time (1960s to 1970s), the comet(?) soon to be called SL9 was captured in a 2-year orbit around Jupiter. Good for it, a new moon of Jupiter! 3. However in July of 1992, SL9 passed within 30,000 to 40,000 km of Jupiter's cloud tops (Jupiter radius is about 71,500 km). This is within the Roche limit of Jupiter (gravity-induced tides from Jupiter stronger than the strength of the material that makes up the body; a little more complicated than that, but good enough for this). 4. Observed first seen by Carolyn Shoemaker (observers Gene and Carolyn Shoemaker and David Levy; interesting story). Then confirmed by Jim Scotty here in Arizona (the first famous image of the string of pearls). 5. Soon determined to be in orbit around Jupiter (though only "seen" once prior to that but not noticed by the person who took the image). A highly elliptical orbit that had it going as far as 50,000,000 km from Jupiter (but still in orbit). Repeating myself, a 2-year orbit, probably in orbit for 20 or 30 years. 6. Soon to be determined that its orbit was continually changing slightly (gravity of the Sun and mass loss of the comet which alters the orbit slightly). The result was that in Juuly of 2004, it would be at its closest to Jupiter again, but this time, its closest distance to Jupiter would be 45,000 from the center of Jupiter, 26,500 BELOW the cloud tops of Jupiter! 7. So, the reason that all of the pieces hit Jupiter was that they were all in the same orbit, just strung out in space (and time along an orbit that got the pieces way too close to Jupiter). 8. I think that the best estimates (not all agree) are that the largest pieces were at most 1-2 km in diameter with most pieces less that 1 km in diameter. This makes this event a once in a thousand-year event (give or take). 9. This helps explain crater chains on two of Jupiter's satellites: Europa and Ganymede (16 total?). A comet gets too close to Jupiter, breaks up and you get a string of comets that, on their way away from Jupiter run into one of the satellites, leaving a crater chain. Too close together and there would not be a chain. Too far apart and only one or two would hit the satellite and the others would miss. To get crater chains on Earth, you would have to have a comet or asteroid break up before hitting the Earth, either by a close approach to Earth (unlikely) of the Sun. However, it is unlikely that this object would get captured by the Earth (they are moving fast and Earth not that massive). A breakup as the object was approaching the Earth (say in the atmosphere) would not give the pieces time enough to spread out and make multiple craters (the long discussion on double craters on Earth). So the pieces, as I said before, would have to be close enough together in order for the individual pieces to hit the moving Earth target and really close to make a chain on Earth. The Earth is moving at 30 km/s and a comet is moving at probably 40 or 45 km/s. So, you can easily figure out how close the pieces have to be. A bunch of impacts over a few thousand years is another story that is beyond the above discussion. Larry On Sun, January 11, 2009 2:49 am, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com wrote: > Hi Rob, > > > Went to a lecture at our astronomy society about Jupiter and it acting to > capture or perturb objects (friend or foe etc) the other night.... and I > believe it was said that SL9 only made two passes before it met jupiter > again on jupiters next turn around the sun and was thus flung out never > to be seen again. eg Jupiter was on the opposite side of the sun on SL9's > first time round with no effect and thus was very close 2nd time round > and able to change its orbit again. > > I hope I remembered that right! > > > Graham Ensor, UK > > > > ---- Rob McCafferty wrote: > >> Fair point, but it may well be a poor choice of words on my point. >> > > The "Swarms"/"showers" you mention are what are suggested in the book. > Several objects arriving in quick sucession are not unusual, however. > There is evidene of it happening on most solid bodies. They all have > strings of impact craters where many objects obviously arrived in a > matter of hours producing chains of craters. My problem with this is that > the authour is perhaps suggesting several over the last few millenia. If > the "chain" events were that prevalant, one would expect them to dominate > on solid bodies and they don't. > > Your points are well made. I was not aware that SL9 was in orbit of > Jupiter. The implications of this are complex and I'll need to check how > long for. I Doubt it was for long but even so, how this is related to > comets and the earth is beyond me at this time. > > Rob > > > > --- On Sat, 1/10/09, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > wrote: > > >> From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? >> To: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com >> Cc: "tracy latimer" , >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, >> 11:47 PM >> While I have not read this book, generally, comets cannot >> hit the Earth over a short interval like SL9. SL9 was in orbit around >> Jupiter. It is >> highly unlikely that a comet could be captured in orbit around Earth. >> Continuous bombardment on Earth only happens in movies >> unless there is a massive swarm of objects (like in a meteor shower). >> >> The Earth is a moving target, so if one comet piece were to >> hit the Earth, it is unlikely that a second or third one in a similar >> orbit would hit, unless the cluster was VERY bunched together. The Earth >> would be long gone! >> >> The Earth's orbital velocity is about 30 km/s and its >> diameter is about 12,750 km. So the Earth moves its diameter in about 425 >> seconds. If the comet pieces were farther apart than that, only one >> piece would hit. >> >> Larry >> >> >> On Sat, January 10, 2009 4:06 pm, Rob McCafferty wrote: >> >>> This is not a new idea. Mike Baille's book >>> >> "Exodus to Arthur" makes >> >>> interesting reading on the idea that comets may have >> triggered many human >>> catastrophies in the past. His book is based on >> dendochronology with >>> support from other sources. At the time of publishing >> c.2000, there was a >>> gap in the Greenland Ice core during the 6th Century. >>> >>> The first third of the book is compelling reading but >>> >> for me does little >>> to convince me that it was anything other than >> volcanic eruptions. The >>> latter part of the book is based on written accounts, >> myths and legends >>> to make a the suggestion that clusters of small comets >> may have been >>> involved, small fragments arriving in short interval >> like SL9 did on >>> Jupiter in 1994. >>> He's as objective as he can be but is clearly >>> >> convinced of the cometary >>> contribution in at least a few cases. >>> >>> Rob McC >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Fri, 1/9/09, tracy latimer >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>> From: tracy latimer >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes >>>> >> triggered ancient famine ??? >>>> To: "Paul" , >>>> >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:15 PM >>>> >>>> >>>>> From what little research I did, I had >>>>> >> understood that a >>>>> >>>> substantial chunk of the sun-blotting fog was >> actually 'vog', which >>>> outgassed from major eruptions in Iceland. >> Iceland underwent several >> >>>> periods of volcanic activity during the 'Dark >> Ages', where multiple >> >>>> volcanic vents burped out stifling clouds of gas. >> The gas periodically >> >>>> got so thick and noxious that it poisoned >> vegetation, killed animals, >>>> and sickened almost everyone else; there was at >> least one major exodus >>>> of survivors around 770 a.c.e. >>>> >>>> Tracy Latimer >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:12:59 -0800 >>>>> From: bristolia at yahoo.com >>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes >>>>> >> triggered >>>>> >>>> ancient famine ??? >>>>> >>>>> Comet smashes triggered ancient famine >>>>> January 7, 2009 by Ker Than >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126882.900-comet-smashes-trigge >> >>>> >> red-ancient-famine.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news >>>>> >>>>> Abbott, D. H., P. Biscaye, J. Cole-Dai, and D. >>>>> >> Breger, >> >>>>> >>>> 2008, >>>> >>>> >>>>> Magnetite and Silicate Spherules from the >>>>> >> GISP2 Core >> >>>>> >>>> at the 536 A.D. Horizon >>>>> American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2008, >>>>> >>>>> >>>> abstract #PP41B-1454 >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&rang >> >>>> >> e=1&directget=1&application=fm08&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Finde >> >>>> >> xes%2Ffm08%2Ffm08&maxhits=200&=%22PP41B-1454%22 >>>>> >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> >> http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AGUFMPP41B1454A >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yours, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Paul H. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>>> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> >>>> Windows Live???????: Keep your life in sync. >>>> >>>> >> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_01200 >> 9 >> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> >>>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> >>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>> >>> > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From arnaudmignan at hotmail.com Sun Jan 11 09:10:14 2009 From: arnaudmignan at hotmail.com (Arnaud Mignan) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:10:14 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lot of 3 Holbrooks from AMNH with 1937 Reeds book Message-ID: Dear list, second and last AD for a while - I got some Holbrooks with painted number from AMNH a few weeks ago and I would like to know if someone is interested by acquiring 3 stones (numbers 3xxx) plus the book "Catalogue of the meteorites in the American Museum of Natural History - As of October 1, 1935" by C. A. Reeds (1937), ~160pp where these meteorites are listed. Please make offer offlist, thanks Arnaud _________________________________________________________________ T?l?phonez gratuitement ? tous vos proches avec Windows Live Messenger? !? T?l?chargez-le maintenant !? http://www.windowslive.fr/messenger/1.asp From michael at spacerocksinc.com Sun Jan 11 10:25:10 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 07:25:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 11, 2009 Message-ID: <12226818.961731231687510303.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_11_2009.html From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun Jan 11 10:25:57 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 10:25:57 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? In-Reply-To: <51695.71.226.60.25.1231678481.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> References: <560544.92367.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com><20090111094918.34DLM.212685.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> <51695.71.226.60.25.1231678481.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Larry & All, Thanks much for taking the time to run through these details. Could you expand on your point #7 below? I get that the string of pearls were in the same orbit as each other and that the orbit was due to intersect with Jupiter. But I'd never really thought before about these impacts unfolding from, I think, July 16 - 22, 1994, and assume that by this point, for all intents and purposes, SL9 was on the same piece of railroad track as Jupiter itself...? Many thanks, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 7:55 AM To: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? Hi Graham and Rob: Some of this is from memory and some of this I had to look up. David Levy was actually working part time for me at the time doing education outreach, so I know some of the details. 1. As far as I know, scientists still do not know where SL9 came from ("beyond Neptune"). Probably a captured comet that happened to come too close to Jupiter on its first pass or one of its first passes into the inner part of the Solar System. 2. At some point in time (1960s to 1970s), the comet(?) soon to be called SL9 was captured in a 2-year orbit around Jupiter. Good for it, a new moon of Jupiter! 3. However in July of 1992, SL9 passed within 30,000 to 40,000 km of Jupiter's cloud tops (Jupiter radius is about 71,500 km). This is within the Roche limit of Jupiter (gravity-induced tides from Jupiter stronger than the strength of the material that makes up the body; a little more complicated than that, but good enough for this). 4. Observed first seen by Carolyn Shoemaker (observers Gene and Carolyn Shoemaker and David Levy; interesting story). Then confirmed by Jim Scotty here in Arizona (the first famous image of the string of pearls). 5. Soon determined to be in orbit around Jupiter (though only "seen" once prior to that but not noticed by the person who took the image). A highly elliptical orbit that had it going as far as 50,000,000 km from Jupiter (but still in orbit). Repeating myself, a 2-year orbit, probably in orbit for 20 or 30 years. 6. Soon to be determined that its orbit was continually changing slightly (gravity of the Sun and mass loss of the comet which alters the orbit slightly). The result was that in Juuly of 2004, it would be at its closest to Jupiter again, but this time, its closest distance to Jupiter would be 45,000 from the center of Jupiter, 26,500 BELOW the cloud tops of Jupiter! 7. So, the reason that all of the pieces hit Jupiter was that they were all in the same orbit, just strung out in space (and time along an orbit that got the pieces way too close to Jupiter). 8. I think that the best estimates (not all agree) are that the largest pieces were at most 1-2 km in diameter with most pieces less that 1 km in diameter. This makes this event a once in a thousand-year event (give or take). 9. This helps explain crater chains on two of Jupiter's satellites: Europa and Ganymede (16 total?). A comet gets too close to Jupiter, breaks up and you get a string of comets that, on their way away from Jupiter run into one of the satellites, leaving a crater chain. Too close together and there would not be a chain. Too far apart and only one or two would hit the satellite and the others would miss. To get crater chains on Earth, you would have to have a comet or asteroid break up before hitting the Earth, either by a close approach to Earth (unlikely) of the Sun. However, it is unlikely that this object would get captured by the Earth (they are moving fast and Earth not that massive). A breakup as the object was approaching the Earth (say in the atmosphere) would not give the pieces time enough to spread out and make multiple craters (the long discussion on double craters on Earth). So the pieces, as I said before, would have to be close enough together in order for the individual pieces to hit the moving Earth target and really close to make a chain on Earth. The Earth is moving at 30 km/s and a comet is moving at probably 40 or 45 km/s. So, you can easily figure out how close the pieces have to be. A bunch of impacts over a few thousand years is another story that is beyond the above discussion. Larry On Sun, January 11, 2009 2:49 am, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com wrote: > Hi Rob, > > > Went to a lecture at our astronomy society about Jupiter and it acting > to capture or perturb objects (friend or foe etc) the other night.... > and I believe it was said that SL9 only made two passes before it met > jupiter again on jupiters next turn around the sun and was thus flung > out never to be seen again. eg Jupiter was on the opposite side of the > sun on SL9's first time round with no effect and thus was very close > 2nd time round and able to change its orbit again. > > I hope I remembered that right! > > > Graham Ensor, UK > > > > ---- Rob McCafferty wrote: > >> Fair point, but it may well be a poor choice of words on my point. >> > > The "Swarms"/"showers" you mention are what are suggested in the book. > Several objects arriving in quick sucession are not unusual, however. > There is evidene of it happening on most solid bodies. They all have > strings of impact craters where many objects obviously arrived in a > matter of hours producing chains of craters. My problem with this is > that the authour is perhaps suggesting several over the last few > millenia. If the "chain" events were that prevalant, one would expect > them to dominate on solid bodies and they don't. > > Your points are well made. I was not aware that SL9 was in orbit of > Jupiter. The implications of this are complex and I'll need to check > how long for. I Doubt it was for long but even so, how this is related > to comets and the earth is beyond me at this time. > > Rob > > > > --- On Sat, 1/10/09, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > > wrote: > > >> From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? >> To: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com >> Cc: "tracy latimer" , >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, >> 11:47 PM >> While I have not read this book, generally, comets cannot hit the >> Earth over a short interval like SL9. SL9 was in orbit around >> Jupiter. It is highly unlikely that a comet could be captured in >> orbit around Earth. >> Continuous bombardment on Earth only happens in movies unless there >> is a massive swarm of objects (like in a meteor shower). >> >> The Earth is a moving target, so if one comet piece were to hit the >> Earth, it is unlikely that a second or third one in a similar orbit >> would hit, unless the cluster was VERY bunched together. The Earth >> would be long gone! >> >> The Earth's orbital velocity is about 30 km/s and its diameter is >> about 12,750 km. So the Earth moves its diameter in about 425 >> seconds. If the comet pieces were farther apart than that, only one >> piece would hit. >> >> Larry >> >> >> On Sat, January 10, 2009 4:06 pm, Rob McCafferty wrote: >> >>> This is not a new idea. Mike Baille's book >>> >> "Exodus to Arthur" makes >> >>> interesting reading on the idea that comets may have >> triggered many human >>> catastrophies in the past. His book is based on >> dendochronology with >>> support from other sources. At the time of publishing >> c.2000, there was a >>> gap in the Greenland Ice core during the 6th Century. >>> >>> The first third of the book is compelling reading but >>> >> for me does little >>> to convince me that it was anything other than >> volcanic eruptions. The >>> latter part of the book is based on written accounts, >> myths and legends >>> to make a the suggestion that clusters of small comets >> may have been >>> involved, small fragments arriving in short interval >> like SL9 did on >>> Jupiter in 1994. >>> He's as objective as he can be but is clearly >>> >> convinced of the cometary >>> contribution in at least a few cases. >>> >>> Rob McC >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Fri, 1/9/09, tracy latimer >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>> From: tracy latimer >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes >>>> >> triggered ancient famine ??? >>>> To: "Paul" , >>>> >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:15 PM >>>> >>>> >>>>> From what little research I did, I had >>>>> >> understood that a >>>>> >>>> substantial chunk of the sun-blotting fog was >> actually 'vog', which >>>> outgassed from major eruptions in Iceland. >> Iceland underwent several >> >>>> periods of volcanic activity during the 'Dark >> Ages', where multiple >> >>>> volcanic vents burped out stifling clouds of gas. >> The gas periodically >> >>>> got so thick and noxious that it poisoned >> vegetation, killed animals, >>>> and sickened almost everyone else; there was at >> least one major exodus >>>> of survivors around 770 a.c.e. >>>> >>>> Tracy Latimer >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:12:59 -0800 >>>>> From: bristolia at yahoo.com >>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes >>>>> >> triggered >>>>> >>>> ancient famine ??? >>>>> >>>>> Comet smashes triggered ancient famine January 7, 2009 by Ker Than >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126882.900-comet-smashes-trigge >> >>>> >> red-ancient-famine.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news >>>>> >>>>> Abbott, D. H., P. Biscaye, J. Cole-Dai, and D. >>>>> >> Breger, >> >>>>> >>>> 2008, >>>> >>>> >>>>> Magnetite and Silicate Spherules from the >>>>> >> GISP2 Core >> >>>>> >>>> at the 536 A.D. Horizon >>>>> American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2008, >>>>> >>>>> >>>> abstract #PP41B-1454 >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&rang >> >>>> >> e=1&directget=1&application=fm08&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Finde >> >>>> >> xes%2Ffm08%2Ffm08&maxhits=200&=%22PP41B-1454%22 >>>>> >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> >> http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AGUFMPP41B1454A >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yours, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Paul H. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>>> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> >>>> Windows Live???????: Keep your life in sync. >>>> >>>> >> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_01200 >> 9 >> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> >>>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> >>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>> >>> > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gmhupe at htn.net Sun Jan 11 11:18:50 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:18:50 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] More Slices - NWA 5480 - AD Message-ID: Dear List Members, At the request of collectors for smaller slices and to make a block for Anne Black to have thin sections made, I have cut the 269g stone of NWA 5480, the "Incomparable Olivine Diogenite". Here is a revised list of what is all that is available of NWA 5480: NWA 5480 Olivine Diogenite Specimens: 670g End Cut http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00003.jpg 168.3g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00005.jpg 137g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00007.jpg 127g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/large/dsc00008.jpg 71.3g End Cut http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/dsc00010.jpg 17.4g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/269gPrepared/dsc00001.jpg 13.1g cs (Sale Pending) http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/269gPrepared/dsc00002.jpg 12g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/269gPrepared/dsc00003.jpg 10.7g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/269gPrepared/dsc00007.jpg 10.2g ps http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/269gPrepared/dsc00008.jpg 9.5g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/269gPrepared/dsc00010.jpg 8.5g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/269gPrepared/dsc00011.jpg 7.8g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/269gPrepared/dsc00012.jpg 7.7g cs http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/269gPrepared/dsc00013.jpg 13.1g block cut (27mm x 18mm x 8mm) http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/block/dsc00020.jpg 12.9g block cut (26mm x 23mm x 8mm http://www.lunarrock.com/ebay/nwa5480/block/dsc00021.jpg cs - complete slice ps - part slice ec - end cut Pricing: Whole stones - $10.00/g (ALL SOLD) Large end cuts (Only one left) - $12.00/g Large slices (Only 3 left) - $16.00/g Small slices (Just 8 available)- $20.00/g Block cuts (2 available) - $10.00/g Thank you for considering these! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sun Jan 11 11:20:22 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 09:20:22 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? In-Reply-To: References: <560544.92367.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com><20090111094918.34DLM.212685.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> <51695.71.226.60.25.1231678481.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <52127.71.226.60.25.1231690822.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Dave: Here is a link to diagram of the comet in orbit around Jupiter. This is to scale, so the orbit is very long and narrow and it major axis is about 350 times the diameter of Jupiter (50,000,000 km vs. 150,000 km). http://www.astrosociety.org/education/publications/tnl/27/jupiter2.html If you expand it (so not to scale) here is what it looked like: http://www.astrosociety.org/education/publications/tnl/27/27.html Again, the orbit major axis was 50.000,000 km and the trail (which lengthed over time) was probably about 5,000,000 km which is why it took 5 days to do its thing. Each piece had a slightly different orbit due to what happened when it broke up plus any effects due to the pull of the Sun and non-gravitational things (each one had a tail which will gently push the comet pieces). Jupiter is in orbit around the Sun and the comet was just like any of Jupiter's satellites, was in orbit around Jupiter. SL9 was a captured satellite of Jupiter. It just so happened that in this case, the orbit at it closest, got too close to Jupiter! I hope this helps. Larry On Sun, January 11, 2009 8:25 am, Dave Gheesling wrote: > Larry & All, > Thanks much for taking the time to run through these details. Could you > expand on your point #7 below? I get that the string of pearls were in > the same orbit as each other and that the orbit was due to intersect with > Jupiter. But I'd never really thought before about these impacts > unfolding from, I think, July 16 - 22, 1994, and assume that by this > point, for all intents and purposes, SL9 was on the same piece of > railroad track as Jupiter itself...? Many thanks, > Dave > www.fallingrocks.com > From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sun Jan 11 12:12:54 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 09:12:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite bash Message-ID: <997903.65882.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi all.I am wondering where the birthday bash will be held.HOME or RESTERAUNT? ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From mexicodoug at aim.com Sun Jan 11 12:50:15 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:50:15 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? In-Reply-To: <51695.71.226.60.25.1231678481.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> References: <560544.92367.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com><20090111094918.34DLM.212685.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> <51695.71.226.60.25.1231678481.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <8CB422C31B0F916-1008-2BA2@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Larry wrote: "1. As far as I know, scientists still do not know where SL9 came from ("beyond Neptune"). Probably a captured comet that happened to come too close to Jupiter on its first pass or one of its first passes into the inner part of the Solar System." Hi Larry, Listees, IMO, it was far from that dramatic sort of initial Jovian fishing expedition in those passes, in that SL9, before it's chaotic Jupiter capture looked like one of our favorite kinds of asteroids with an orbit likely CONFINED inside the main asteroid belt and with sufficiently of low inclination (though with lower probability it could have been stuck a little further out, at most, into the zone between Jupiter and Saturn). While all short period comets like SLP have a pinball aspect to their orbits before getting stuck within, say, inside Neptune's orbit, SL9 just did what any meteoroid with potential would have done in that it got too close to Jupiter and stretched out its orbit like pulling a rubber band. As this is thought to have happened right at aphelion, the comet was basically at a standstill when Jupiter bumbled by and it transferred into a Jovian orbit by basically falling into Jupiter in an extremely eccentric orbit (as you point out), and from there on, just got too close to Jupiter as Jupiter and the Sun ironed out tyheir differences without JPL pushing the comet's outgassing buttons. Here is a sc ienific eplanation and a graphical evolution of the capture orbits as calculated by astrophysicists: http://tinyurl.com/742lbr Of course, where SL9, or anything else for that matter before being in the e.g., asteroid belt, came from, whether 25 or 2.5 billion years earlier, makes for good philosophy. A minor sampling of thoughts on this event from a meteoritical perspective...and for all good hearted Comet-fearing humans: The collision of SL9 with Jupiter was a great event to have been alive to have observed, but should be put in the appropriate context regarding orbit dynamics and the inner Solar system (read: frequencies of collision with Earth). While such a Jupiter collision may well be a once in 6000 (as you suggested) year event, one very pleasing rigorous analysis concluded that such event: " In particular, we show that, for Jupiter-interacting* comets of greater than 1 km diameter, a Jupiter impact takes place every 500 to 1000 years, and an Earth impact every 2 to 4 million years." The sort of study great pops the ballon of theories suggesting that comets frequently strike Earth (and shape evolution frequently in thousands or tens of thousands of years periods). The important detail lies within the observation that the residence time for comets in the Terrestrial (inner) Solar system is so short and chaotic from an orbital perspective, and the planets so small (for example, see Larry's cross section , but he was actually waaaaay overestimating it since we need to also consider the inclinations of the comets), that there is virtually nil chance = 2 - 4 million years vs. what we saw happen on Jupiter. Furthermore, what led to that collision, as has already been suggested is that Jupiter was able to capture the comet to start with. That is not something the Earth is adept at doing considering the relative size of the Sun and its gravitational potential vs. ours in the uptown part of the Solar neighborhood. Here is the excellent statistical vs. observational treatise by T. NAKAMURA (National Astronomical Observatory, Japan) and H. KURAHASHI (Sano-Fuji Optics Company, Japan), THE ASTRONOMICAL JOURNAL, 115:848-854, Feb. 1998. http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/1538-3881/115/2/848/970144.html *ok, so have the wild card of hyperbolic comets and highly inclined rogue comets and the likes of the kitchen sink of things that don't fit nicely into the Solar system intro textbook. Perhaps this provides some SOLice for the frequent Terrestrial-cometary collision proponents. Anyway, this is my take on it Larry, and it is based on oldies but goodies regarding the papers cited. I can't find, and don't know that anyone has done anything particularly revolutionary since then. Best wishes, great health and keep looking up, Doug -----Original Message----- From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu To: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Cc:20meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 6:54 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? Hi Graham and Rob: Some of this is from memory and some of this I had to look up. David Levy was actually working part time for me at the time doing education outreach, so I know some of the details. 1. As far as I know, scientists still do not know where SL9 came from ("beyond Neptune"). Probably a captured comet that happened to come too close to Jupiter on its first pass or one of its first passes into the inner part of the Solar System. 2. At some point in time (1960s to 1970s), the comet(?) soon to be called SL9 was captured in a 2-year orbit around Jupiter. Good for it, a new moon of Jupiter! 3. However in July of 1992, SL9 passed within 30,000 to 40,000 km of Jupiter's cloud tops (Jupiter radius is about 71,500 km). This is within the Roche limit of Jupiter (gravity-induced tides from Jupiter stronger than the strength of the material that makes up the body; a little more complicated than that, but good enough for this). 4. Observed first seen by Carolyn Shoemaker (observers Gene and Carolyn Shoemaker and David Levy; interesting story). Then confirmed by Jim Scotty here in Arizona (the first famous image of the string of pearls). 5. Soon determined to be in orbit around Jupiter (though only "seen" once prior to that but not noticed by the person who took the image). A highly elliptical orbit that had it going as far as 50,000,000 km from Jupiter (but still in orbit). Repeating myself, a 2-year orbit, probably in orbit for 20 or 30 years. 6. Soon to be determined that its orbit was continually changing slightly (gravity of the Sun and mass loss of the comet which alters the orbit slightly). The result was that in Juuly of 2004, it would be at its closest to Jupiter again, but this time, its closest distance to Jupiter would be 45,000 from the center of Jupiter, 26,500 BELOW the cloud tops of Jupiter! 7. So, the reason that all of the pieces hit Jupiter was that they were all in the same orbit, just strung out in space (and time along an orbit that got the pieces way too close to Jupiter). 8. I think that the best estimates (not all agree) are that the largest pieces were at most 1-2 km in diameter with most pieces less that 1 km in diameter. This makes this event a once in a thousand-year event (give or take). 9. This helps explain crater chains on two of Jupiter's satellites: Europa and Ganymede (16 total?). A comet gets too close to Jupiter, breaks up and you get a string of comets that, on their way away from Jupiter run into one of the satellites, leaving a crater chain. Too close together and there would not be a chain. Too far apart and only one or two would hit the satellite and the othe rs would miss. To get crater chains on Earth, you would have to have a comet or asteroid break up before hitting the Earth, either by a close approach to Earth (unlikely) of the Sun. However, it is unlikely that this object would get captured by the Earth (they are moving fast and Earth not that massive). A breakup as the object was approaching the Earth (say in the atmosphere) would not give the pieces time enough to spread out and make multiple craters (the long discussion on double craters on Earth). So the pieces, as I said before, would have to be close enough together in order for the individual pieces to hit the moving Earth target and really close to make a chain on Earth. The Earth is moving at 30 km/s and a comet is moving at probably 40 or 45 km/s. So, you can easily figure out how close the pieces have to be. A bunch of impacts over a few thousand years is another story that is beyond the above discussion. Larry On Sun, January 11, 2009 2:49 am, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com wrote: > Hi Rob, > > > Went to a lecture at our astronomy society about Jupiter and it acting to > capture or perturb objects (friend or foe etc) the other night.... and I > believe it was said that SL9 only made two passes before it met jupiter > again on jupiters next turn around the sun and was thus flung out never > to be seen again. eg Jupiter was on the opposite side of the sun on SL9's > first time round with no effect and thus was very close 2nd time round > and able to change its orbit again. > > I hope I remembered that right! > > > Graham Ensor, UK > > > > ---- Rob McCafferty wrote: > >> Fair point, but it may well be a poor choice of words on my point. >> > > The "Swarms"/"showers" you mention are what are suggested in the book. > Several objects arriving in quick sucession are not unusual, however. > There is evidene of it happening on most solid bodies. They all have > strings of impact craters where many objects obviously arrived in a > matter of hours producing chains of craters. My problem with this is that > the authour is perhaps suggesting several over the last few millenia. If > the "chain" events were that prevalant, one would expect them to dominate > on solid bodies and they don't. > > Your points are well made. I was not aware that SL9 was in orbit of > Jupiter. The implications of this are complex and I'll need to check how > long for. I Doubt it was for long but even so, how this is related to > comets and the earth is beyond me at this time. > > Rob > > > > --- On Sat, 1/10/09, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > wrote: > > >> From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? >> To: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com >> Cc: "tracy latimer" , >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, >> 11:47 PM >> While I have not read this book, generally, comets cannot >> hit the Earth over a short interval like SL9. SL9 was in orbit around >> Jupiter. It is >> highly unlikely that a comet could be captured in orbit around Earth. >> Continuous bombardment on Earth only happens in movies >> unless there is a massive swarm of objects (like in a meteor shower). >> >> The Earth is a moving target, so if one comet piece were to >> hit the Earth, it is unlikely that a second or third one in a similar >> orbit would hit, unless the cluster was VERY bunched together. The Earth >> would be long gone! >> >> The Earth's orbital velocity is about 30 km/s and its >> diameter is about 12,750 km. So the Earth moves its diameter in about 425 >> seconds. If the comet pieces were farther apart than that, only one >> piece would hit. >> >> Larry >> >> >> On Sat, January 10, 2009 4:06 pm, Rob McCafferty wrote: >> >>> This is not a new idea. Mike Baille's book >>> >> "Exodus to Arthur" makes >> >>> interesting reading on the idea that comets may have >> triggered many human >>> catastrophies in the past. His book is based on >> dendochronology with >>> support from other sources. At the time of publishing >>20c.2000, there was a >>> gap in the Greenland Ice core during the 6th Century. >>> >>> The first third of the book is compelling reading but >>> >> for me does little >>> to convince me that it was anything other than >> volcanic eruptions. The >>> latter part of the book is based on written accounts, >> myths and legends >>> to make a the suggestion that clusters of small comets >> may have been >>> involved, small fragments arriving in short interval >> like SL9 did on >>> Jupiter in 1994. >>> He's as objective as he can be but is clearly >>> >> convinced of the cometary >>> contribution in at least a few cases. >>> >>> Rob McC >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Fri, 1/9/09, tracy latimer >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>> From: tracy latimer >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes >>>> >> triggered ancient famine ??? >>>> To: "Paul" , >>>> >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:15 PM >>>> >>>> >>>>> From what little research I did, I had >>>>> >> understood that a >>>>> >>>> substantial chunk of the sun-blotting fog was >> actually 'vog', which >>>> outgassed from major eruptions in Iceland. >> Iceland underwent several >> >>>> periods of volcanic activity during the 'Dark >> Ages', where multiple >> >>>> volcanic vents burped out stifling clouds of gas. >> The gas periodically 0A>> >>>> got so thick and noxious that it poisoned >> vegetation, killed animals, >>>> and sickened almost everyone else; there was at >> least one major exodus >>>> of survivors around 770 a.c.e. >>>> >>>> Tracy Latimer >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>>> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:12:59 -0800 >>>>> From: bristolia at yahoo.com >>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes >>>>> >> triggered >>>>> >>>> ancient famine ??? >>>>> >>>>> Comet smashes triggered ancient famine >>>>> January 7, 2009 by Ker Than >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126882.900-comet-smashes-trigge >> >>>> >> red-ancient-famine.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news >>>>> >>>>> Abbott, D. H., P. Biscaye, J. Cole-Dai, and D. >>>>> >> Breger, >> >>>>> >>>> 2008, >>>> >>>> >>>>> Magnetite and Silicate Spherules from the >>>>> >> GISP2 Core >> >>>>> >>>> at the 536 A.D. Horizon >>>>> American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2008, >>>>> >>>>> >>>> abstract #PP41B-1454 >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&rang >> >>>> >> e=1&directget=1&application=fm08&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Finde >> >>>> >> xes%2Ffm08%2Ffm08&maxhits=200&=%22PP41B-1454%22 >>>>> >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> >> http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AGUFMPP41B1454A >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yours, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Paul H. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>>> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> >>>> Windows Live???????: Keep your life in sync. >>>> >>>> >> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_01200 >> 9 >> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> >>>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> >>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>> >>> > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteo ritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sun Jan 11 13:09:45 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:09:45 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? In-Reply-To: <8CB422C31B0F916-1008-2BA2@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> References: <560544.92367.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com><20090111094918.34DLM.212685.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> <51695.71.226.60.25.1231678481.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> <8CB422C31B0F916-1008-2BA2@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <52303.71.226.60.25.1231697385.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi Doug: This is one of many models for the capture and a very possible one. However, from what I see of the obital evolution and the actual abstract, I would say that prior to capture, in this model, SL9 was a Jupiter family comet which is a far cry from an asteroid belt object (had to come close to Jupiter multiple times). The asteroid belt goes out to 3.3 AU, so not with nearly 2 AU of Jupiter, not like the pre-capture SL9. Larry PS Never said it was a dramatic capture! On Sun, January 11, 2009 10:50 am, mexicodoug at aim.com wrote: > Larry wrote: > > > "1. As far as I know, scientists still do not know where SL9 came from > ("beyond Neptune"). Probably a captured comet that happened to come too > close to Jupiter on its first pass or one of its first passes into the > inner part of the Solar System." > > Hi Larry, Listees, > > > IMO, it was far from that dramatic sort of initial Jovian fishing > expedition in those passes, in that SL9, before it's chaotic Jupiter > capture looked like one of our favorite kinds of asteroids with an orbit > likely CONFINED inside the main asteroid belt and with sufficiently of low > inclination (though with lower probability it could have been stuck a > little further out, at most, into the zone between Jupiter and Saturn). > While all short period comets like SLP have a > pinball aspect to their orbits before getting stuck within, say, inside > Neptune's orbit, SL9 just did what any meteoroid with potential would > have done in that it got too close to Jupiter and stretched out its orbit > like pulling a rubber band. As this is thought to have happened right at > aphelion, the comet was basically at a standstill when Jupiter bumbled by > and it transferred into a Jovian orbit by basically falling into Jupiter > in an extremely eccentric orbit (as you point out), and from there on, > just got too close to Jupiter as Jupiter and the Sun ironed out tyheir > differences without JPL pushing the comet's outgassing buttons. > > Here is a sc > ienific eplanation and a graphical evolution of the capture orbits as > calculated by astrophysicists: http://tinyurl.com/742lbr > > > Of course, where SL9, or anything else for that matter before being in > the e.g., asteroid belt, came from, whether 25 or 2.5 billion years > earlier, makes for good philosophy. > > A minor sampling of thoughts on this event from a meteoritical > perspective...and for all good hearted Comet-fearing humans: > > The collision of SL9 with Jupiter was a great event to have been alive > to have observed, but should be put in the appropriate context regarding > orbit dynamics and the inner Solar system (read: frequencies of collision > with Earth). While such a Jupiter collision may well be a once in 6000 > (as you suggested) year event, one very pleasing rigorous > analysis concluded that such event: > > " In particular, we show that, for Jupiter-interacting* comets of > greater than 1 km diameter, a Jupiter impact takes place every 500 to 1000 > years, and an Earth impact every 2 to 4 million years." > > The sort of study great pops the ballon of theories suggesting that > comets frequently strike Earth (and shape evolution frequently in thousands > or tens of thousands of years periods). The important detail lies within > the observation that the residence time for comets in the Terrestrial > (inner) Solar system is so short and chaotic from an > orbital perspective, and the planets so small (for example, see Larry's > cross section , but he was actually waaaaay overestimating it since we > need to also consider the inclinations of the comets), that there is > virtually nil chance = 2 - 4 million years vs. what we saw happen on > Jupiter. Furthermore, what led to that collision, as has already been > suggested is that Jupiter was able to capture the comet to start with. That > is not something the Earth is adept at doing considering the relative size > of the Sun and its gravitational potential vs. ours in the uptown part of > the Solar neighborhood. Here is the excellent statistical vs. > observational treatise by T. NAKAMURA (National Astronomical Observatory, > Japan) and H. KURAHASHI (Sano-Fuji Optics > Company, Japan), THE ASTRONOMICAL JOURNAL, 115:848-854, Feb. 1998. > > > http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/1538-3881/115/2/848/970144.html > > > *ok, so have the wild card of hyperbolic comets and highly inclined > rogue comets and the likes of the kitchen sink of things that don't fit > nicely into the Solar system intro textbook. Perhaps this provides some > SOLice for the frequent Terrestrial-cometary collision proponents. > > > Anyway, this is my take on it Larry, and it is based on oldies but > goodies regarding the papers cited. I can't find, and don't know that > anyone has done anything particularly revolutionary since then. > > Best wishes, great health and keep looking up, > Doug > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > To: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > Cc:20meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 6:54 am > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? > > > > > Hi Graham and Rob: > > > Some of this is from memory and some of this I had to look up. David > Levy > was actually working part time for me at the time doing education outreach, > so I know some of the details. > > 1. As far as I know, scientists still do not know where SL9 came from > ("beyond Neptune"). Probably a captured comet that happened to come too > close to Jupiter on its first pass or one of its first passes into the > inner part of the Solar System. > > 2. At some point in time (1960s to 1970s), the comet(?) soon to be > called SL9 was captured in a 2-year orbit around Jupiter. Good for it, a > new moon of Jupiter! > > 3. However in July of 1992, SL9 passed within 30,000 to 40,000 km of > Jupiter's cloud tops (Jupiter radius is about 71,500 km). This is within > the Roche limit of Jupiter (gravity-induced tides from Jupiter stronger > than the strength of the material that makes up the body; a little more > complicated than that, but good enough for this). > > 4. Observed first seen by Carolyn Shoemaker (observers Gene and Carolyn > Shoemaker and David Levy; interesting story). Then confirmed by Jim > Scotty > here in Arizona (the first famous image of the string of pearls). > > 5. Soon determined to be in orbit around Jupiter (though only "seen" > once prior to that but not noticed by the person who took the image). A > highly elliptical orbit that had it going as far as 50,000,000 km from > Jupiter > (but still in orbit). Repeating myself, a 2-year orbit, probably in > orbit for 20 or 30 years. > > 6. Soon to be determined that its orbit was continually changing > slightly (gravity of the Sun and mass loss of the comet which alters the > orbit slightly). The result was that in Juuly of 2004, it would be at its > closest to Jupiter again, but this time, its closest distance to Jupiter > would be 45,000 from the center of Jupiter, 26,500 BELOW the cloud tops of > Jupiter! > > > 7. So, the reason that all of the pieces hit Jupiter was that they were > all in the same orbit, just strung out in space (and time along an orbit > that got the pieces way too close to Jupiter). > > 8. I think that the best estimates (not all agree) are that the largest > pieces were at most 1-2 km in diameter with most pieces less that 1 km in > diameter. This makes this event a once in a thousand-year event (give or > take). > > 9. This helps explain crater chains on two of Jupiter's satellites: > Europa > and Ganymede (16 total?). A comet gets too close to Jupiter, breaks up and > you get a string of comets that, on their way away from Jupiter run into > one of the satellites, leaving a crater chain. Too close together and > there would not be a chain. Too far apart and only one or two would hit > the satellite and the othe rs would miss. > > To get crater chains on Earth, you would have to have a comet or > asteroid break up before hitting the Earth, either by a close approach to > Earth > (unlikely) of the Sun. However, it is unlikely that this object would > get captured by the Earth (they are moving fast and Earth not that > massive). > > A breakup as the object was approaching the Earth (say in the > atmosphere) would not give the pieces time enough to spread out and make > multiple craters (the long discussion on double craters on Earth). So the > pieces, as I said before, would have to be close enough together in order > for the individual pieces to hit the moving Earth target and really close > to make a chain on Earth. The Earth is moving at 30 km/s and a comet is > moving at probably 40 or 45 km/s. So, you can easily figure out how close > the pieces have to be. > > A bunch of impacts over a few thousand years is another story that is > beyond the above discussion. > > Larry > > > > > > > > On Sun, January 11, 2009 2:49 am, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com wrote: > >> Hi Rob, >> >> >> >> Went to a lecture at our astronomy society about Jupiter and it >> > acting to >> capture or perturb objects (friend or foe etc) the other night.... > and I >> believe it was said that SL9 only made two passes before it met > jupiter >> again on jupiters next turn around the sun and was thus flung out > never >> to be seen again. eg > Jupiter was on the opposite side of the sun on > SL9's > >> first time round with no effect and thus was very close 2nd time round >> and able to change its orbit again. >> >> I hope I remembered that right! >> >> >> >> Graham Ensor, UK >> >> >> >> >> ---- Rob McCafferty wrote: >> >> >>> Fair point, but it may well be a poor choice of words on my point. >>> >>> >> >> The "Swarms"/"showers" you mention are what are suggested in the book. >> Several objects arriving in quick sucession are not unusual, however. >> There is evidene of it happening on most solid bodies. They all have >> strings of impact craters where many objects obviously arrived in a >> matter of hours producing chains of craters. My problem with this is > that >> the authour is perhaps suggesting several over the last few millenia. > If > >> the "chain" events were that prevalant, one would expect them to > dominate >> on solid bodies and they don't. >> >> Your points are well made. I was not aware that SL9 was in orbit of >> Jupiter. The implications of this are complex and I'll need to check >> > how >> long for. I Doubt it was for long but even so, how this is related to >> comets and the earth is beyond me at this time. >> >> Rob >> >> >> >> >> --- On Sat, 1/10/09, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu >> > > >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet >>> > smashes triggered ancient famine ??? > >>> To: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com >>> Cc: "tracy latimer" , >>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, >>> 11:47 PM >>> While I have not read this book, generally, comets cannot >>> hit the Earth over a short interval like SL9. SL9 was in orbit around >>> Jupiter. It is >>> highly unlikely that a comet could be captured in orbit around Earth. >>> Continuous bombardment on Earth only happens in movies >>> unless there is a massive swarm of objects (like in a meteor shower). >>> >>> The Earth is a moving target, so if one comet piece were to >>> hit the Earth, it is unlikely that a second or third one in a similar >>> orbit would hit, unless the cluster was VERY bunched together. The > Earth > >>> would be long gone! >>> >>> The Earth's orbital velocity is about 30 km/s and its >>> diameter is about 12,750 km. So the Earth moves its diameter in > about 425 >>> seconds. If the comet pieces were farther apart than that, only one >>> piece would hit. >>> >>> Larry >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, January 10, 2009 4:06 pm, Rob McCafferty wrote: >>> >>> >>>> This is not a new idea. Mike Baille's book >>>> >>>> >>> "Exodus to Arthur" makes >>> >>> >>>> interesting reading on the idea that comets may have >>> triggered many human >>>> catastrophies in the past. His book is based on >>> dendochronology with >>>> support from other sources. At the time of publishing >>> 20c.2000, there was a >>> >>>> gap in the Greenland Ice core during the 6th Century. >>>> >>>> The first third of the book is compelling reading but >>>> >>>> >>> for me does little >>>> to convince me that it was anything other than >>> volcanic eruptions. The >>>> latter part of the book is based on written accounts, >>> myths and legends >>>> to make a the suggestion that clusters of small comets >>> may have been >>>> involved, small fragments arriving in short interval >>> like SL9 did on >>>> Jupiter in 1994. >>>> He's as objective as he can be but is clearly >>>> >>>> >>> convinced of the cometary >>>> contribution in at least a few cases. >>>> >>>> Rob McC >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Fri, 1/9/09, tracy latimer >>>> >>>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> From: tracy latimer >>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes >>>>> >>>>> >>> triggered ancient famine ??? >>>>> To: "Paul" , >>>>> >>>>> >>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:15 PM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> From what little research I did, I had >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> understood that a >>>>>> >>>>> substantial chunk of the sun-blotting fog was >>> actually 'vog', which >>>>> outgassed from major eruptions in Iceland. >>> Iceland underwent several >>> >>> >>>>> periods of volcanic activity during the 'Dark >>> Ages', where multiple >>> >>> >>>>> volcanic vents burped out stifling clouds of gas. >>> The gas periodically >>> > 0A>> > >>>>> got so thick and noxious that it poisoned >>> vegetation, killed animals, >>>>> and sickened almost everyone else; there was at >>> least one major exodus >>>>> of survivors around 770 a.c.e. >>>>> >>>>> Tracy Latimer >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:12:59 -0800 >>>>>> From: bristolia at yahoo.com >>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> triggered >>>>>> >>>>> ancient famine ??? >>>>>> >>>>>> Comet smashes triggered ancient famine >>>>>> January 7, 2009 by Ker Than >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> > http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126882.900-comet-smashes-trigge > >>> >>>>> >>> red-ancient-famine.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news >>>>>> >>>>>> Abbott, D. H., P. Biscaye, J. Cole-Dai, and D. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> Breger, >>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>> 2008, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Magnetite and Silicate Spherules from the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> GISP2 Core >>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>> at the 536 A.D. Horizon >>>>>> American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2008, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> abstract #PP41B-1454 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> > http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&rang > >>> >>>>> >>> > e=1&directget=1&application=fm08&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Finde >>> >>>>> >>> xes%2Ffm08%2Ffm08&maxhits=200&=%22PP41B-1454%22 >>>>>> >>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AGUFMPP41B1454A >>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Paul >>>>>> > H. > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >>>>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> >>>>> Windows Live???????????????: Keep your life in sync. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_01200 > >>> 9 >>> >>> >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteo > ritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Sun Jan 11 09:12:22 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 06:12:22 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD SALE BRUDERHEIM METEORITE from Canada with Crust 14.15 gram ends on ebay Sunday night Jan-11-09 19:35:32 PST Message-ID: <063701c9742f$6fa810a0$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Hello fellow meteorite collectors and dealer. I everyone is having a great weekend. I have a few more meteorites up today and the Bruderheim from Canada, 14.15 grams with crust ends Jan-11-09 19:35:32 PST. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=280300266771&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=018 Thanks for looking. Brian Cox IMCA# 6387 searchingforfun is my ebay user ID From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Sun Jan 11 14:35:21 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:35:21 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? In-Reply-To: <51695.71.226.60.25.1231678481.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <20090111193521.E6CFR.451661.root@web03-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi Larry, Rob, Thanks for all that info and sorry for my dumb reply in haste last. I was not thinking of SL9 at all but a completely different object mentioned in the lecture. I wish my memory was better. Graham Ensor UK ---- lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu wrote: > Hi Graham and Rob: > > Some of this is from memory and some of this I had to look up. David Levy > was actually working part time for me at the time doing education > outreach, so I know some of the details. > > 1. As far as I know, scientists still do not know where SL9 came from > ("beyond Neptune"). Probably a captured comet that happened to come too > close to Jupiter on its first pass or one of its first passes into the > inner part of the Solar System. > > 2. At some point in time (1960s to 1970s), the comet(?) soon to be called > SL9 was captured in a 2-year orbit around Jupiter. Good for it, a new moon > of Jupiter! > > 3. However in July of 1992, SL9 passed within 30,000 to 40,000 km of > Jupiter's cloud tops (Jupiter radius is about 71,500 km). This is within > the Roche limit of Jupiter (gravity-induced tides from Jupiter stronger > than the strength of the material that makes up the body; a little more > complicated than that, but good enough for this). > > 4. Observed first seen by Carolyn Shoemaker (observers Gene and Carolyn > Shoemaker and David Levy; interesting story). Then confirmed by Jim Scotty > here in Arizona (the first famous image of the string of pearls). > > 5. Soon determined to be in orbit around Jupiter (though only "seen" once > prior to that but not noticed by the person who took the image). A highly > elliptical orbit that had it going as far as 50,000,000 km from Jupiter > (but still in orbit). Repeating myself, a 2-year orbit, probably in orbit > for 20 or 30 years. > > 6. Soon to be determined that its orbit was continually changing slightly > (gravity of the Sun and mass loss of the comet which alters the orbit > slightly). The result was that in Juuly of 2004, it would be at its > closest to Jupiter again, but this time, its closest distance to Jupiter > would be 45,000 from the center of Jupiter, 26,500 BELOW the cloud tops of > Jupiter! > > 7. So, the reason that all of the pieces hit Jupiter was that they were > all in the same orbit, just strung out in space (and time along an orbit > that got the pieces way too close to Jupiter). > > 8. I think that the best estimates (not all agree) are that the largest > pieces were at most 1-2 km in diameter with most pieces less that 1 km in > diameter. This makes this event a once in a thousand-year event (give or > take). > > 9. This helps explain crater chains on two of Jupiter's satellites: Europa > and Ganymede (16 total?). A comet gets too close to Jupiter, breaks up and > you get a string of comets that, on their way away from Jupiter run into > one of the satellites, leaving a crater chain. Too close together and > there would not be a chain. Too far apart and only one or two would hit > the satellite and the others would miss. > > To get crater chains on Earth, you would have to have a comet or asteroid > break up before hitting the Earth, either by a close approach to Earth > (unlikely) of the Sun. However, it is unlikely that this object would get > captured by the Earth (they are moving fast and Earth not that massive). > > A breakup as the object was approaching the Earth (say in the atmosphere) > would not give the pieces time enough to spread out and make multiple > craters (the long discussion on double craters on Earth). So the pieces, > as I said before, would have to be close enough together in order for the > individual pieces to hit the moving Earth target and really close to make > a chain on Earth. The Earth is moving at 30 km/s and a comet is moving at > probably 40 or 45 km/s. So, you can easily figure out how close the pieces > have to be. > > A bunch of impacts over a few thousand years is another story that is > beyond the above discussion. > > Larry > > > > > > > On Sun, January 11, 2009 2:49 am, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com wrote: > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > Went to a lecture at our astronomy society about Jupiter and it acting to > > capture or perturb objects (friend or foe etc) the other night.... and I > > believe it was said that SL9 only made two passes before it met jupiter > > again on jupiters next turn around the sun and was thus flung out never > > to be seen again. eg Jupiter was on the opposite side of the sun on SL9's > > first time round with no effect and thus was very close 2nd time round > > and able to change its orbit again. > > > > I hope I remembered that right! > > > > > > Graham Ensor, UK > > > > > > > > ---- Rob McCafferty wrote: > > > >> Fair point, but it may well be a poor choice of words on my point. > >> > > > > The "Swarms"/"showers" you mention are what are suggested in the book. > > Several objects arriving in quick sucession are not unusual, however. > > There is evidene of it happening on most solid bodies. They all have > > strings of impact craters where many objects obviously arrived in a > > matter of hours producing chains of craters. My problem with this is that > > the authour is perhaps suggesting several over the last few millenia. If > > the "chain" events were that prevalant, one would expect them to dominate > > on solid bodies and they don't. > > > > Your points are well made. I was not aware that SL9 was in orbit of > > Jupiter. The implications of this are complex and I'll need to check how > > long for. I Doubt it was for long but even so, how this is related to > > comets and the earth is beyond me at this time. > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/10/09, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > > wrote: > > > > > >> From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? > >> To: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com > >> Cc: "tracy latimer" , > >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, > >> 11:47 PM > >> While I have not read this book, generally, comets cannot > >> hit the Earth over a short interval like SL9. SL9 was in orbit around > >> Jupiter. It is > >> highly unlikely that a comet could be captured in orbit around Earth. > >> Continuous bombardment on Earth only happens in movies > >> unless there is a massive swarm of objects (like in a meteor shower). > >> > >> The Earth is a moving target, so if one comet piece were to > >> hit the Earth, it is unlikely that a second or third one in a similar > >> orbit would hit, unless the cluster was VERY bunched together. The Earth > >> would be long gone! > >> > >> The Earth's orbital velocity is about 30 km/s and its > >> diameter is about 12,750 km. So the Earth moves its diameter in about 425 > >> seconds. If the comet pieces were farther apart than that, only one > >> piece would hit. > >> > >> Larry > >> > >> > >> On Sat, January 10, 2009 4:06 pm, Rob McCafferty wrote: > >> > >>> This is not a new idea. Mike Baille's book > >>> > >> "Exodus to Arthur" makes > >> > >>> interesting reading on the idea that comets may have > >> triggered many human > >>> catastrophies in the past. His book is based on > >> dendochronology with > >>> support from other sources. At the time of publishing > >> c.2000, there was a > >>> gap in the Greenland Ice core during the 6th Century. > >>> > >>> The first third of the book is compelling reading but > >>> > >> for me does little > >>> to convince me that it was anything other than > >> volcanic eruptions. The > >>> latter part of the book is based on written accounts, > >> myths and legends > >>> to make a the suggestion that clusters of small comets > >> may have been > >>> involved, small fragments arriving in short interval > >> like SL9 did on > >>> Jupiter in 1994. > >>> He's as objective as he can be but is clearly > >>> > >> convinced of the cometary > >>> contribution in at least a few cases. > >>> > >>> Rob McC > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- On Fri, 1/9/09, tracy latimer > >>> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> > >>>> From: tracy latimer > >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes > >>>> > >> triggered ancient famine ??? > >>>> To: "Paul" , > >>>> > >> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>>> Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:15 PM > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> From what little research I did, I had > >>>>> > >> understood that a > >>>>> > >>>> substantial chunk of the sun-blotting fog was > >> actually 'vog', which > >>>> outgassed from major eruptions in Iceland. > >> Iceland underwent several > >> > >>>> periods of volcanic activity during the 'Dark > >> Ages', where multiple > >> > >>>> volcanic vents burped out stifling clouds of gas. > >> The gas periodically > >> > >>>> got so thick and noxious that it poisoned > >> vegetation, killed animals, > >>>> and sickened almost everyone else; there was at > >> least one major exodus > >>>> of survivors around 770 a.c.e. > >>>> > >>>> Tracy Latimer > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ---------------------------------------- > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:12:59 -0800 > >>>>> From: bristolia at yahoo.com > >>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes > >>>>> > >> triggered > >>>>> > >>>> ancient famine ??? > >>>>> > >>>>> Comet smashes triggered ancient famine > >>>>> January 7, 2009 by Ker Than > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126882.900-comet-smashes-trigge > >> > >>>> > >> red-ancient-famine.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news > >>>>> > >>>>> Abbott, D. H., P. Biscaye, J. Cole-Dai, and D. > >>>>> > >> Breger, > >> > >>>>> > >>>> 2008, > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Magnetite and Silicate Spherules from the > >>>>> > >> GISP2 Core > >> > >>>>> > >>>> at the 536 A.D. Horizon > >>>>> American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2008, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> abstract #PP41B-1454 > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >> http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&rang > >> > >>>> > >> e=1&directget=1&application=fm08&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Finde > >> > >>>> > >> xes%2Ffm08%2Ffm08&maxhits=200&=%22PP41B-1454%22 > >>>>> > >>>>> and > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AGUFMPP41B1454A > >> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Yours, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Paul H. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ______________________________________________ > >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > >>>> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> > >>>> Windows Live???????: Keep your life in sync. > >>>> > >>>> > >> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_01200 > >> 9 > >> > >>>> ______________________________________________ > >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>>> > >>>> > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ______________________________________________ > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> > >>> > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > From mlblood at cox.net Sun Jan 11 14:55:29 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 11:55:29 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD In-Reply-To: <52303.71.226.60.25.1231697385.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Hi All, I offer several SUPER offers, including 2 of the 3 most "In Demand hammers: PEEKSKILL: Many super, ultra thin slices of one of the 3 most sought after hammers ever ? the "Car Smasher" and the most filmed of all bolides ever. (Fell on a Friday night and over a dozen parents were filming their sons' football games). SEE: http://aquarid.physics.uwo.ca/~pbrown/Videos/peekskill.htm The price on this keeps getting higher every time I buy new stock. Supply clearly will never match increasing demand. Many of these were so thin I had to put them in a 1.5" X 1.5" membrane box, then weigh the box and subtract the weight of an average box, so, weights on all of these is not exact. However, this is one of those purchased based on size of surface area and on that basis ALL of these are bargains: SEE ALL PHOTOS AT: http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/569594507bzxTfa?start=0 .828g = $225- FC .729g = $175- .336g = $85- .318g = $75- .310g = $75- .317g = $60- .293g = $50- .261g = $60- .193g = $40- .172g = $40- .164g = $60-FC .131g = $75- .115g = $40- Multi Frags = $25- SYLACAUGA! (sand grain sized ? but try to get ANY anywhere at any price). Yes, these are from THE actual stone that struck Mrs. Hulitt Hodges. They came from the core that was removed from the only stone KNOWN to have struck a human. $100 ea SEE ALL PHOTOS AT: http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/569594507bzxTfa?start=0 MURCHISON: growing nearly impossible to get, this is one of the most researched falls of all time. Also a hammer, its circumstances of impact are overshadowed by its contents of amino acids proving that life could possibly (probably) come to this planate via meteorites and/or comets. The price has climbed to the point that the usual price is $200/g and higher ? but not here: 32g whole specimen = $6,400- SALE = $3,200- ( only 100/g! ? don't hope to ever see it at this price again) LA CREOLLA: 556g Whole Stone. 95% Fusion Crusted $6,500- (under $11.75/g). SEE ALL PHOTOS AT: http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/569594507bzxTfa?start=0 ETTER: Whole Slice 559g (270mm x 180mm x 5mm) = $1,100- ALLENDE: Full Slice ? HUMONGUS! Only 3mm thick! Wire Cut (or, you can HOPE Bob Haag offers some more at $5,000/slice like he did last year). This is a KILLER bargain. (Bigger photo will be available on Monday orTuesday ? if interested, contact me) 371g = $3,710- SEE ALL PHOTOS AT: http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/569594507bzxTfa?start=0 Photos of items sold will be removed immediately ? however, if ordering one of the Peekskills, you will do well to mention a second and third choice (in order of preference). If you want more than one, say so. On the Sylacauga, the largest will be selected in sequence of orders received (though there is very little difference in sizes at all). PayPal Preferred, Visa/Mastercard accepted. Checks accepted Please provide address and specify whether you desire insurance or not. Some smaller items can be only $3 if you live in the US and no insurance is desired. Please contact me off list at: mlblood at cox.net HAPPY HUNTING! Michael From mexicodoug at aim.com Sun Jan 11 15:05:27 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:05:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? In-Reply-To: <52303.71.226.60.25.1231697385.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> References: <560544.92367.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com><20090111094918.34DLM.212685.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com><51695.71.226.60.25.1231678481.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu><8CB422C31B0F916-1008-2BA2@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> <52303.71.226.60.25.1231697385.squirrel@timber.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <8CB423F145B944E-B70-2A5@WEBMAIL-MC09.sysops.aol.com> Hi Larry, In the likely model for precapture SL9 I cited, the perihelion of the comet varies regularly to about 2.5 and 3 AU (in the link: http://tinyurl.com/742lbr I provided, figure 2), which is well within the asteroid belt and its main mass d-planet Ceres' aphelion of 3AU. I was clear about calling it a short period comet with low inclination which is just semantics for a Jupiter family comet as you would like to correct me (but I would not agree, nor disagree or that matter due to relevance). There are a lot of semantics, for example, take the awesome asteroid (944) Hidalgo, named for the Mexican Independence hero and preist. Like it or not, it is generally considered with the main asteroid belt, although it's orbit grazes Saturn before returning to the main asteroid belt, and could be seen as an asteroid model of a SL9 type scenario with a different outcome so far. Certainly neither Hidalgo nor SL9 has a shared recent history with other favorite passive asteroids like Ceres or Vesta, but we can agree that all asteroids do not share genetics, and then there is chaotic dynamics to deal with. My comments regarding the perturbations of the orbit (which was proposed as much more main belt appearing than main belt asteroid Hidalgo), were the gravitational interactions interactions with Jupiter and this is what I perceive to be of meteoritical relevance. The capture in the likely scenario20looks a really whole lot like Jupiter's pull which creates the Kirkwood gaps! In my favorite example of the main belt asteroid 944 also known as the Ingenious Don Hidalgo y Costilla, the steep inclination of Hidalgo is thought to be from a close call after charging the Jovian gravitational windmill. Luckily, Hidalgo Lives. Viva Hidalgo! When Hidalgo is closest to the Sun in the inner main asteroid belt, a very weak coma is suggested. As I mentioned, the "how" of an object getting to where it is before it eases into its new zone is a great question for just about everything. It was me who used the word "dramatic" to characterize your description, "Probably a captured comet that happened to come too close to Jupiter on its first pass ... into the inner part of the Solar System." That, I would consider an extremely dramatic and highly cool as unlikely scenario. My reply served to downplay this to consider like in the fast lane of the asteroid belt and the effects of mny years of Jupiter-Kirkwood type interactions which iseems the simpler explanation in this case. that is, to Think Hidalgo ... and allow contencious nomenclature a back seat to the spotlight on location and mechanics, even with cross-overs. From your followup, I don't think you would disagree with this, so maybe after much ado, we're both fine with it. Finally, I hope you noted that I support your ideas of plan etary roulette and then, raise them more, of the overblown comet collision proponents, which was IMO the most interesting meteoritite-related comment of my post which escaped your and other's comment, much to the disappointment of little me. That Japanese paper makes me jealous just looking at how beautiful an analysis of collision probabilities can be and how much there is to be learned to develop such elegance in solutions by amateurs (speaking for myself, really). Earth, every 2 to 4 million years ... I wonder what the dinosaurs were thinking ... why us!!!!! why! why! best wishes, and great health, Doug -----Original Message----- From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu To: mexicodoug at aim.com Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:09 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? Hi Doug: This is one of many models for the capture and a very possible one. However, from what I see of the obital evolution and the actual abstract, I would say that prior to capture, in this model, SL9 was a Jupiter family comet which is a far cry from an asteroid belt object (had to come close to Jupiter multiple times). The asteroid belt goes out to 3.3 AU, so not with nearly 2 AU of Jupiter, not like the pre-capture SL9. Larry PS Never said it was a dramatic capture! On Sun, January 11, 2009 10:50 am, mexicodoug at aim.com wrote: > Larry wrote: > > > "1. As far as I know, scientists still do not know where SL9 came from > ("beyond Neptune"). Probably a captured comet that happened to come too > close to Jupiter on its first pass or one of its first passes into the > inner part of the Solar System." > > Hi Larry, Listees, > > > IMO, it was far from that dramatic sort of initial Jovian fishing > expedition in those passes, in that SL9, before it's chaotic Jupiter > capture looked like one of our favorite kinds of asteroids with an orbit > likely CONFINED inside the main asteroid belt and with sufficiently of low > inclination (though with lower probability it could have been stuck a > little further out, at most, into the zone between Jupiter and Saturn). > While all short period comets like SLP have a > pinball aspect to their orbits before getting stuck within, say, inside > Neptune's orbit, SL9 just did what any meteoroid with potential would > have done in that it got too close to Jupiter and stretched out its orbit > like pulling a rubber band. As this is thought to have happened right at > aphelion, the comet was basically at a standstill when Jupiter bumbled by > and it transferred into a Jovian orbit by basically falling into Jupiter > in an extremely eccentric orbit (as you point out), and from there on, > just got too close to Jupiter as Jupiter and the Sun ironed out tyheir > differences20without JPL pushing the comet's outgassing buttons. > > Here is a sc > ienific eplanation and a graphical evolution of the capture orbits as > calculated by astrophysicists: http://tinyurl.com/742lbr > > > Of course, where SL9, or anything else for that matter before being in > the e.g., asteroid belt, came from, whether 25 or 2.5 billion years > earlier, makes for good philosophy. > > A minor sampling of thoughts on this event from a meteoritical > perspective...and for all good hearted Comet-fearing humans: > > The collision of SL9 with Jupiter was a great event to have been alive > to have observed, but should be put in the appropriate context regarding > orbit dynamics and the inner Solar system (read: frequencies of collision > with Earth). While such a Jupiter collision may well be a once in 6000 > (as you suggested) year event, one very pleasing rigorous > analysis concluded that such event: > > " In particular, we show that, for Jupiter-interacting* comets of > greater than 1 km diameter, a Jupiter impact takes place every 500 to 1000 > years, and an Earth impact every 2 to 4 million years." > > The sort of study great pops the ballon of theories suggesting that > comets frequently strike Earth (and shape evolution frequently in thousands > or tens of thousands of years periods). The important detail lies within > the observation that the residence time for comets in the Terrestrial > (inn er) Solar system is so short and chaotic from an > orbital perspective, and the planets so small (for example, see Larry's > cross section , but he was actually waaaaay overestimating it since we > need to also consider the inclinations of the comets), that there is > virtually nil chance = 2 - 4 million years vs. what we saw happen on > Jupiter. Furthermore, what led to that collision, as has already been > suggested is that Jupiter was able to capture the comet to start with. That > is not something the Earth is adept at doing considering the relative size > of the Sun and its gravitational potential vs. ours in the uptown part of > the Solar neighborhood. Here is the excellent statistical vs. > observational treatise by T. NAKAMURA (National Astronomical Observatory, > Japan) and H. KURAHASHI (Sano-Fuji Optics > Company, Japan), THE ASTRONOMICAL JOURNAL, 115:848-854, Feb. 1998. > > > http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/1538-3881/115/2/848/970144.html > > > *ok, so have the wild card of hyperbolic comets and highly inclined > rogue comets and the likes of the kitchen sink of things that don't fit > nicely into the Solar system intro textbook. Perhaps this provides some > SOLice for the frequent Terrestrial-cometary collision proponents. > > > Anyway, this is my take on it Larry, and it is based on oldies but > goodies regarding the papers cited. I can't find, and don't know that > anyone has done anything p articularly revolutionary since then. > > Best wishes, great health and keep looking up, > Doug > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > To: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > Cc:20meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 6:54 am > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ??? > > > > > Hi Graham and Rob: > > > Some of this is from memory and some of this I had to look up. David > Levy > was actually working part time for me at the time doing education outreach, > so I know some of the details. > > 1. As far as I know, scientists still do not know where SL9 came from > ("beyond Neptune"). Probably a captured comet that happened to come too > close to Jupiter on its first pass or one of its first passes into the > inner part of the Solar System. > > 2. At some point in time (1960s to 1970s), the comet(?) soon to be > called SL9 was captured in a 2-year orbit around Jupiter. Good for it, a > new moon of Jupiter! > > 3. However in July of 1992, SL9 passed within 30,000 to 40,000 km of > Jupiter's cloud tops (Jupiter radius is about 71,500 km). This is within > the Roche limit of Jupiter (gravity-induced tides from Jupiter stronger > than the strength of the material that makes up the body; a little more > complicated than that, but good enough for this). > >204. Observed first seen by Carolyn Shoemaker (observers Gene and Carolyn > Shoemaker and David Levy; interesting story). Then confirmed by Jim > Scotty > here in Arizona (the first famous image of the string of pearls). > > 5. Soon determined to be in orbit around Jupiter (though only "seen" > once prior to that but not noticed by the person who took the image). A > highly elliptical orbit that had it going as far as 50,000,000 km from > Jupiter > (but still in orbit). Repeating myself, a 2-year orbit, probably in > orbit for 20 or 30 years. > > 6. Soon to be determined that its orbit was continually changing > slightly (gravity of the Sun and mass loss of the comet which alters the > orbit slightly). The result was that in Juuly of 2004, it would be at its > closest to Jupiter again, but this time, its closest distance to Jupiter > would be 45,000 from the center of Jupiter, 26,500 BELOW the cloud tops of > Jupiter! > > > 7. So, the reason that all of the pieces hit Jupiter was that they were > all in the same orbit, just strung out in space (and time along an orbit > that got the pieces way too close to Jupiter). > > 8. I think that the best estimates (not all agree) are that the largest > pieces were at most 1-2 km in diameter with most pieces less that 1 km in > diameter. This makes this event a once in a thousand-year event (give or >20take). > > 9. This helps explain crater chains on two of Jupiter's satellites: > Europa > and Ganymede (16 total?). A comet gets too close to Jupiter, breaks up and > you get a string of comets that, on their way away from Jupiter run into > one of the satellites, leaving a crater chain. Too close together and > there would not be a chain. Too far apart and only one or two would hit > the satellite and the othe rs would miss. > > To get crater chains on Earth, you would have to have a comet or > asteroid break up before hitting the Earth, either by a close approach to > Earth > (unlikely) of the Sun. However, it is unlikely that this object would > get captured by the Earth (they are moving fast and Earth not that > massive). > > A breakup as the object was approaching the Earth (say in the > atmosphere) would not give the pieces time enough to spread out and make > multiple craters (the long discussion on double craters on Earth). So the > pieces, as I said before, would have to be close enough together in order > for the individual pieces to hit the moving Earth target and really close > to make a chain on Earth. The Earth is moving at 30 km/s and a comet is > moving at probably 40 or 45 km/s. So, you can easily figure out how close > the pieces have to be. > > A bunch of impacts over a few thousand years is another story that is > beyond the above discussion. > > Larry > > > > > > > > On Sun, January 11, 2009 2:49 am, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com wrote: > >> Hi Rob, >> >> >> >> Went to a lecture at our astronomy society about Jupiter and it >> > acting to >> capture or perturb objects (friend or foe etc) the other night.... > and I >> believe it was said that SL9 only made two passes before it met > jupiter >> again on jupiters next turn around the sun and was thus flung out > never >> to be seen again. eg > Jupiter was on the opposite side of the sun on > SL9's > >> first time round with no effect and thus was very close 2nd time round >> and able to change its orbit again. >> >> I hope I remembered that right! >> >> >> >> Graham Ensor, UK >> >> >> >> >> ---- Rob McCafferty wrote: >> >> >>> Fair point, but it may well be a poor choice of words on my point. >>> >>> >> >> The "Swarms"/"showers" you mention are what are suggested in the book. >> Several objects arriving in quick sucession are not unusual, however. >> There is evidene of it happening on most solid bodies. They all have >> strings of impact craters where many objects obviously arrived in a >> matter of hours producing chains of craters. My problem with this is > that >> the authour is perhaps suggesting several over the last few millenia. > If > >> the " chain" events were that prevalant, one would expect them to > dominate >> on solid bodies and they don't. >> >> Your points are well made. I was not aware that SL9 was in orbit of >> Jupiter. The implications of this are complex and I'll need to check >> > how >> long for. I Doubt it was for long but even so, how this is related to >> comets and the earth is beyond me at this time. >> >> Rob >> >> >> >> >> --- On Sat, 1/10/09, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu >> > > >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet >>> > smashes triggered ancient famine ??? > >>> To: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com >>> Cc: "tracy latimer" , >>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, >>> 11:47 PM >>> While I have not read this book, generally, comets cannot >>> hit the Earth over a short interval like SL9. SL9 was in orbit around >>> Jupiter. It is >>> highly unlikely that a comet could be captured in orbit around Earth. >>> Continuous bombardment on Earth only happens in movies >>> unless there is a massive swarm of objects (like in a meteor shower). >>> >>> The Earth is a moving target, so if one comet piece were to >>> hit the Earth, it is unlikely that a second or third one in a similar >>> orbit would hit, unless the cluster was VERY bunched together. The > Earth > >>> would be long gone! >>> >>> The Earth's orbital velocity is about 30 km/s and its >>> diameter is about 12,750 km. So the Earth moves its diameter in > about 425 >>> seconds. If the comet pieces were farther apart than that, only one >>> piece would hit. >>> >>> Larry >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, January 10, 2009 4:06 pm, Rob McCafferty wrote: >>> >>> >>>> This is not a new idea. Mike Baille's book >>>> >>>> >>> "Exodus to Arthur" makes >>> >>> >>>> interesting reading on the idea that comets may have >>> triggered many human >>>> catastrophies in the past. His book is based on >>> dendochronology with >>>> support from other sources. At the time of publishing >>> 20c.2000, there was a >>> >>>> gap in the Greenland Ice core during the 6th Century. >>>> >>>> The first third of the book is compelling reading but >>>> >>>> >>> for me does little >>>> to convince me that it was anything other than >>> volcanic eruptions. The >>>> latter part of the book is based on written accounts, >>> myths and legends >>>> to make a the suggestion that clusters of small comets >>> may have been >>>> involved, small fragments arriving in short interval >>> like SL9 did on >>>> Jupiter in 1994. >>>> He's as objective as he can be but is clearly >>>> >>>> >>> convinced of the cometary >>>> contribution in at least a few cases. >>>> >>>> Rob McC >>>> >>>> >>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Fri, 1/9/09, tracy latimer >>>> >>>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> From: tracy latimer >>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes >>>>> >>>>> >>> triggered ancient famine ??? >>>>> To: "Paul" , >>>>> >>>>> >>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Date: Friday, January 9, 2009, 7:15 PM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> From what little research I did, I had >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> understood that a >>>>>> >>>>> substantial chunk of the sun-blotting fog was >>> actually 'vog', which >>>>> outgassed from major eruptions in Iceland. >>> Iceland underwent several >>> >>> >>>>> periods of volcanic activity during the 'Dark >>> Ages', where multiple >>> >>> >>>>> volcanic vents burped out stifling clouds of gas. >>> The gas periodically >>> > 0A>> > >>>>> got so thick and noxious that it poisoned >>> vegetation, killed animals, >>>>> and sickened almost everyone else; there was at >>> least one major exodus >>>>> of survivors around 770 a.c.e. >>>>> >>>>> Tracy Latimer >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 07:12:59 -0800 >>>>>> From: bristolia at yahoo.com >>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Comet smashes >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> triggered >>>>>> >>>>> ancient famine ??? >>>>>> >>>>>> Comet smashes triggered20ancient famine >>>>>> January 7, 2009 by Ker Than >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> > http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126882.900-comet-smashes-trigge > >>> >>>>> >>> red-ancient-famine.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news >>>>>> >>>>>> Abbott, D. H., P. Biscaye, J. Cole-Dai, and D. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> Breger, >>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>> 2008, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Magnetite and Silicate Spherules from the >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> GISP2 Core >>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>> at the 536 A.D. Horizon >>>>>> American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2008, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> abstract #PP41B-1454 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> > http://www.agu.org/cgi-bin/SFgate/SFgate?&listenv=table&multiple=1&rang > >>> >>>>> >>> > e=1&directget=1&application=fm08&database=%2Fdata%2Fepubs%2Fwais%2Finde >>> >>>>> >>> xes%2Ffm08%2Ffm08&maxhits=200&=%22PP41B-1454%22 >>>>>> >>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AGUFMPP41B1454A >>> >>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yours, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Paul >>>>>> > H. > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >>>>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> >>>>> Windows Live??C3????????????: Keep your life in sync. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_explore_01200 > >>> 9 >>> >>> >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteo > ritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairl ist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From JPBrockets at aol.com Sun Jan 11 16:55:35 2009 From: JPBrockets at aol.com (JPBrockets at aol.com) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:55:35 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Mostly NWA 869 Message-ID: Dear List: I have a few NWA posted to Ebay, most NWA 869 - one does have a polished side. If interested please take a look. Thanks for your time. http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/jpbrockets_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZQQ_ sopZ14 Juris jpbrockets at aol.com **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) From mdavidhardy at yahoo.com Sun Jan 11 18:05:15 2009 From: mdavidhardy at yahoo.com (David Hardy) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 15:05:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mike Miller Message-ID: <379550.44052.qm@web50210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mike Miller, could you email me off list for a trade offer. Thanks, David Hardy From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 20:39:17 2009 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:39:17 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Ebay sale plus some great additions to my web site! Ad/sale Message-ID: <468bf6050901111739w54717d97o740d62f2c012d528@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone I have added 2 new knives to the web site and a new piece of Glorieta art From Arlene Schlazer. Here is a link for that http://www.meteoritefinder.com/whats-new-sale.htm I am also running over $20,000 on Ebay right now as well. Some really great stuff you wont find for sale anywhere else, a couple of these are simply the best of the best. I have one of the best Canyon Diabl'os you will ever see for! I also have a 207 gram Glorieta pallasite individual simply the best! I have a KILLER end cut of Henbury on this list WOW the back side is as nice to look at as the incredible etch! I have a really really nice 12.5 pound CD that really is at a wholesale price it really is a very nice piece. There is plenty more check them out here http://www.meteoritefinder.com/meteorite-auctions.htm Thanks -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From bobadebt at ec.rr.com Sun Jan 11 21:36:26 2009 From: bobadebt at ec.rr.com (David & Kitt Deyarmin) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 21:36:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Zag for $1.50 per Gram Message-ID: I sold a 55 gram slice so the total weight of the lot has dropped to 243 grams, at $1.50 per gram it would cost about $365 which isn't bad for 12 slices By the way, if anyone is interested in a single slice the $2 per gram cost applies. Thanks ___________________________________________________ If anyone is interested in all of my remaining Zag stock I will sell it to you at $1.50 per gram According to my web site I have 13 slices left that weigh 298 grams. You can view the slices by clicking this http://home.roadrunner.com/~bobadebt/Subpages/FS%20Zag.htm If interested email me off list at bobadebt @ ec.rr.com Thanks ___________________________________________________ From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Sun Jan 11 21:58:04 2009 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:58:04 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] LDG in King Tut exhibit Message-ID: <58d4f59f85724f929a5e38cd383b9e58@ucv1.vhostdns.com> I just returned from Dallas, after attending the King Tut exhibit. Libyan Desert Glass is acknowledged as the source for one of King Tut's jewels in a piece of jewelry. They show a short 2 minute video on what forms the LDG. Just an FYI. From roxfromspace at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 22:25:30 2009 From: roxfromspace at gmail.com (Phil Morgan) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 20:25:30 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Nininger books - one of them signed Message-ID: <70baf8d20901111925x786c0929m3a5507c68c5442fb@mail.gmail.com> I have a couple of duplicate books I'd like to sell and thought I better catch some of you before you spend all your money in Tucson. I offer: A very nice softcover copy of Out of the Sky (Dover 1959). This is in very nice condition and is nicely illustrated with more than 175 photos on 52 full-page plates. It also includes a bibliography of Nininger's publications on meteorites. Index viii + 336pp. I'm only offering this because I managed to pick up a hardcover copy. A signed copy of Our Stone-Pelted Planet (The Riverside Press 1933). The inscription was for a raffle dontation, but a very nice clear signature of the man himself. The dust-jacket is in rather rough shape but is now in a protective sleeve. The cover itself is in fantastic condition. The bottom edges show very, very minor scuffing and corners are not bumped or frayed at all. The interior of the book is also in fantastic condition - not a mark. I'd keep this one but need the money for doctor bills so will instead keep my ex-lib copy. Pictures are posted here: http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/pkmorgan/nininger/ Now, so everyone has a chance at these without sharing with e-bay, I'd like to have a private (off-list) auction of sorts. I'll start these at $35 and $300 respectively and will take best offer as of 10:00pm MST on Tuesday. I will respond to status inquiries for those who have made an offer - in other words, I'll let you know if you have the high bid. Shipping will be as close to cost as I can calculate. The expensive one will be insured with delivery confirmation. I will take paypal, money order, or pesonal check (after it clears). Money order would be preferred so I don't have to share with paypal either. Hope this makes sense and isn't out of line. Regards to all, Phil Morgan From info at meteorites.com.au Mon Jan 12 01:39:14 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:39:14 +1100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Monthly Favourite - September 2008 Message-ID: <197AE14CE21B485CAE7D7EDD313BAC43@JeffPC> http://www.meteorites.com.au/favourite/september2008.html Cheers, Jeff Kuyken Meteorites Australia www.meteorites.com.au Director - I.M.C.A. Inc. www.imca.cc From majbaermann at web.de Mon Jan 12 03:07:22 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:07:22 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] LDG in King Tut exhibit References: <58d4f59f85724f929a5e38cd383b9e58@ucv1.vhostdns.com> Message-ID: <5334775E98EE4C1E8B44A6838B0F1CE6@thinkcentre> Yes indeed, the central stone of Tut Anch Amun's famous and wonderful pectoral is a piece of LDG, carved in form of a scarab - can be admired here: http://geology.rockbandit.net/2006/07/19/tutankhamuns-pectoral-and-meteors/ Best from Germany, Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: "McCartney Taylor" To: Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 3:58 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] LDG in King Tut exhibit >I just returned from Dallas, after attending the King Tut exhibit. > > Libyan Desert Glass is acknowledged as the source for one of King Tut's > jewels in a piece of jewelry. > > They show a short 2 minute video on what forms the LDG. > > Just an FYI. > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 09:46:10 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 06:46:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] bruderheim Message-ID: <132395.31103.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.Just wondering what the "normal" price per gram of the canadian hammer BRUDERHEIM is going for. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From roxfromspace at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 10:13:11 2009 From: roxfromspace at gmail.com (Phil Morgan) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 08:13:11 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] bruderheim In-Reply-To: <132395.31103.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <132395.31103.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <70baf8d20901120713v1f9544dfh5db9c1be03803d50@mail.gmail.com> Hey Steve, if by "normal" price you mean what it would bring on e-bay on any given day, looks like it's been going from about $18-25/g depending on the size. Of course some dealers may be asking more, but don't know if it's been selling. Phil On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 7:46 AM, steve arnold wrote: > Hi list.Just wondering what the "normal" price per gram of the canadian hammer BRUDERHEIM is going for. > > Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! > http://chicagometeorites.net/ > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From bristolia at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 10:54:07 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:54:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] New ice core evidence for a volcanic cause of the A.D. 536 dust veil Message-ID: <11439.39994.qm@web36203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A 2008 paper in AGU?s Geophysical Research Letters presents an alternative interpretation of ice core evidence to that discussed in ?[meteorite-list] Comet smashes triggered ancient famine ???? can be found in: Larsen, L. B., B. M. Vinther, K. R. Briffa, T. M. Melvin, H. B. Clausen, P. D. Jones, M.-L. Siggaard-Andersen, C. U. Hammer, M. Eronen, H. Grudd, B. E. Gunnarson, R. M. Hantemirov, M. M. Naurzbaev, and K. Nicolussi, 2008, New ice core evidence for a volcanic cause of the A.D. 536 dust veil. Geophysical Research Letters. vol. 35, no. L04708, doi:10.1029/2007GL032450, 2008 http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2008/2007GL032450.shtml http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008GeoRL..3504708L This paper is discussed in ?536 AD and all that? at: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/03/536-ad-and-all-that/ and ?Comments on: 536 AD and all that? at: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/03/536-ad-and-all-that/feed/ It should be interesting to how these differences of opinions are resolved in the future. Some related articles are: 1. Axboe, M., 1999, The year 536 and the Scandinavian gold hoards. Medieval archaeology. vol. 43, pp. 186-188. Link and TOC at: http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/ARCHway/toc.cfm?rcn=1089&vol=43 PDF file at: http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/adsdata/arch-769-1/ahds/dissemination/pdf/vol43/43_186_188.pdf 2. D'Arrigo, R., D. Frank, G. Jacoby and N. Pederson, 2001, Spatial Response to Major Volcanic Events in or about AD 536, 934 and 1258: Frost Rings and Other Dendrochronological Evidence from Mongolia and Northern Siberia: Comment on R. B. Stothers, ?Volcanic Dry Fogs, Climate Cooling, and Plague Pandemics in Europe and the Middle East? (Climatic Change, 42, 1999). Climate Change. vol. 49, no. 1-2, pp 239-246. Abstract at: http://www.springerlink.com/content/lj2k364539rl5613/ and link at http://www.pitt.edu/~mrosenme/Mongolia_Workshop/links.htm PDF file at: http://www.pitt.edu/AFShome/m/r/mrosenme/public/html/Mongolia_workshop/D_Arrigo_et_al_2001.pdf 3. Grattan, J. P., and F. B. Pyattb, 1999, Volcanic eruptions dry fogs and the European palaeoenvironmental record: localised phenomena or hemispheric impacts? Global and Planetary Change. vol. 21, no. 1-3, pp. 173-179. Abstract at: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1999GPC....21..173G PDF file at: http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/2160/226/1/env%20impact%20of%20volcanic%20gases1.pdf 4. Mardon, 1997, The mystery of the 536 A.D. dust veil event: Was it a cometary or meteorite impact? Large Meteorite Impacts and Planetary Evolution: Sudbury 1997 Conference Abstract Volume. Sudbury, September 3, 1997 Citation is ?English*Published material that has appeared in print? at: http://www.austinmardon.org/page2.htm Pdf file at: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/impacts97/pdf/6019.pdf 5. Stothers, R. B., 1999, Volcanic Dry Fogs, Climate Cooling, and Plague Pandemics in Europe and the Middle East. Climatic Change, vol. 42, no. 4, pp. 713-723. Abstract at: http://www.springerlink.com/content/p79818w71777m113/ 6. Braille, M., 2007, The case for significant numbers of extraterrestrial impacts through the late Holocene. Journal of Quaternary Science. vol. 22, no. 2, pp. 101-109. Abstract at: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007JQS....22..101B PDF file at: http://tsun.sscc.ru/hiwg/PABL/Baillie_2007_JQS.pdf Yours, Paul H. From Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de Mon Jan 12 11:22:11 2009 From: Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de (Carsten Giessler) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:22:11 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - New Website - New Specimens listed online Message-ID: <496B6E33.5070104@t-online.de> Dear List, i just finished the work on my new website. www.gi-po.de It's not 100% finished yet, the english part is still missing, but i think it should be easy to navigate for non-german speakers. Well, whats new? There is a new design, i changed the navigation and the whole layout of the website, also i uploaded many new specimens. More new stuff will follow soon, i'm working daily on it. I hope you will like it! Best regards, Carsten From bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 12:16:01 2009 From: bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com (mckinney trammell) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 09:16:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] allende individual Message-ID: <419147.8593.qm@web53202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> allende individual has one hour left on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/25-5G-ALLENDE-CARBONACEOUS-meteorite-69fall_W0QQitemZ290287293945QQihZ019QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 14:48:02 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:48:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Nininger Item - Planetary Bargains Message-ID: <870746.51238.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, I would like bring to your attention some great items now listed on eBay. All items are started out at just 99 cents including several sizable lunar pieces. Click below to see some great auctions: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Several Generous Sized Lunar Meteorite Specimens Started at Just 99 Cents: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200295791833 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140293077471 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200295800469 Largest Piece of Tierra Blanca I have Left Stated at Just 99 Cents: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140293079992 Niningers Printing Press Started Out at $3,000.00 and Offered by kalani_oftheheavens. My associate, Jeff is offering this item far below costs and will deliver it to the Tucson show for free. He acquired the collection from me and is offering the working printing press by itself. I only mention this since Jeff is out of town until this evening and a serious bargain could be had. I tried to keep the collection together but no museum was willing to accommodate a deal and I have no room left in my garage. It is either give up my 24" lapidary saw or sports car or store this printing press. He is offering it for thousands less than I have into it. He will also entertain offers on the plates if somebody wants to keep this collection whole. You can try this link but if it doesn't work, type Niningers Printing Press and it should show up under the EBay search: http://cgi.ebay.com/Niningers-Antique-Kelsey-Excelsior-Printing-Press_W0QQitemZ120360067070QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item120360067070&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 And Many More Examples Worth Looking at Can Be Found at This Link: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck. Best Regards, ------------------------------------ Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 raremeteorites at yahoo.com From epgrondine at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 14:53:30 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:53:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] comet fragment impact and 536 AD climate collapse Message-ID: <544503.31771.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all - A few points about the recent discussion of the climate collapse of 536 CE: 1) For some reason some of you think that volcanic eruptions and cometary dust veils are mutually exclusive events, and that if a volcano goes off, then no comet passes nearby. This is not so, as the events of 1628 BCE show. 2) Note the lack of volcanic glass shard from the new ice cores. Do volcanoes only emit sulfur? I am certain that if Dr. Abbott had found tephra, she would have reported it, as she has other volanic glass finds from other cores. 3) Why do some of you think that sulfur is not found in any cometary cores, and that sulfur does not occur in space, when you have troilite samples in your own collections? 4) Besides reading my book for the accounts of impacts in the Americas following 536 CE, some of you may want to take a look at the following essay for notes on another related impact: Impact And The End Of The Roman Empire In The West http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/ce082202.html It appears Comet Encke's debris stream was fairly spread out. We don't have data from Africa or India yet. 5) Why hasn't this volcanic particulate/cometary dust issue been resolved? Where are the eruption dates from the volcanoes themselves? In a nut shell, and to my absolute knowledge, having spoken with the researchers, it is because NASA refuses to fund research on impacts, and in particular research on cometary impact, with the research being done by others when they can find funding. NASA coordination with NSF, USGS and others is non-existent. This is not due to any fault of Lindley Johnson, IMO, but rather the problem lies elsewhere. 6) This is not a trivial problem, nor a trivial hazard. In closing this note, I am hoping that the next NASA Administrator will not avoid his responsibilities to ensure the continued prosperity, safety, and lives of the people of the United States. I suppose we'll all find out Directly. Good Hunting - E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jan 12 16:56:10 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:56:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Public Events Mark Mars Rovers' Five-Year Anniversary Message-ID: <200901122156.NAA21726@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-04 Public Events Mark Mars Rovers' Five-Year Anniversary Jet Propulsion Laboratory January 12, 2009 PASADENA, Calif. -- Public events during the next two weeks will share the adventures of the still-active NASA Mars rovers Spirit and Opportunity, which landed five years ago this month on missions originally scheduled to last three months. Rover mission leaders will present free, illustrated talks Thursday, Jan. 15, and Friday, Jan. 16, in Pasadena, with the Jan. 15 event streamed live online and archived for later viewing. On Friday, Jan. 23, through Sunday, Jan. 25, rover team members will give a series of talks at Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles. The observatory will also display a full-size Mars rover model, with team members available to answer visitors' questions. Since landing on opposite sides of Mars during January of 2004, Spirit and Opportunity have made important discoveries about historically wet and violent environments on ancient Mars. They also have returned a quarter-million images, driven more than 21 kilometers (13 miles), climbed a mountain, descended into craters, struggled with sand traps and aging hardware, survived dust storms, and relayed more than 36 gigabytes of data via NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter. Both rovers remain operational for new exploration campaigns the team has planned. The public presentations on Jan. 15 and 16, "Spirit and Opportunity: The Corps of Discovery for Mars Rolls On," are part of the monthly von K??rm??n Lecture Series by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Steve Squyres of Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y., principal investigator for the science payloads on the rovers, will deliver the Jan. 15 talk in Beckman Auditorium on the campus of the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, on Michigan Avenue one block south of Del Mar Avenue. JPL's John Callas, project manager for the rovers, will deliver the Jan. 16 talk in Pasadena City College's Vosloh Forum, 1570 E. Colorado Ave. Squyres and Callas will begin their presentations at 7 p.m. Admission is free, on a first-come, first-seated basis. For more information about the lectures and the webcast of the Jan. 15 event, see http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/events/lectures.cfm?year=2009&month=1 . At Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles, the full-size rover model will be on display in the Depths of Space gallery Jan. 23 through Jan. 25, accompanied by rover team members from JPL. Talks about topics such as how the team drives the rovers and what the rovers have revealed about Mars will be presented in the observatory's Leonard Nimoy Event Horizon Theater. These talks, by JPL rover-team members Al Herrera, Scott Lever, Scott Maxwell, John Callas, Bruce Banerdt and Ashley Stroupe, are scheduled for the following times: 7 p.m. on Jan. 23; 1:30 p.m., 4 p.m. and 7 p.m. on Jan. 24; and 1:30 p.m. and 4 p.m. on Jan. 25. For more information about visiting Griffith Observatory, see http://www.griffithobs.org/ . JPL, a division of Caltech, manages the Mars Exploration Rovers for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington. More information about the rovers is at http://www.nasa.gov/rovers . Media contacts: Guy Webster/Rhea Borja 818-354-6278/0850 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov/rhea.r.borja at jpl.nasa.gov 2009-004 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jan 12 16:59:08 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:59:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Light Seen Hurtling Over United Kingdom Message-ID: <200901122159.NAA22639@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co.uk/news/article-9460-did-you-see-the-strange-light-in-the-sky-/ Did you see the strange light in the sky? by Dan Darlington Madenhead Advertiser (United Kingdom) January 12, 2009 A strange orange white light with a trail was seen hurtling across the sky by motorists near Marlow on Friday evening. Witness Marc Humphrey was driving along the A404 between Maidenhead and Marlow at about 7pm when he saw what he thought was a meteorite close to the ground. He noted down his UFO sighting on a UK-UFO sightings website. "It could have been some sort of meteorite but it was not too high and then disappeared," he said. "I know other motorists saw this as brake lights started coming on as people slowed to look." From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 17:13:44 2009 From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:13:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA MATERIAL ; AD Message-ID: <326375.52667.qm@web45409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear Collectors, Up for sale at excellent prices : - 1k nice thumbprinted achondrite. - 3k nice looking CV3 single stone. - 1k rare C type. - Olivine Diogenite. and some more good deals. Photos and prices on request. Cheers Aziz From waltbranch at birch.net Mon Jan 12 17:25:35 2009 From: waltbranch at birch.net (Walter Branch) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:25:35 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Lunar Meteorites Info References: <419147.8593.qm@web53202.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Everyone, Lunar meteorites? Nice NASA Website with a Lunar meteorite compendium (first link is a pdf file): http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/antmet/lmc/LMCIntro.pdf This one is interesting because it is indexed by type, rather than by name: http://www-curator.jsc.nasa.gov/antmet/lmc/index.cfm It also has much information regarding Lunar meteorites, in pdf format . Click on the link on the right for info regarding Martian meteorites. -Walter Branch From epgrondine at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 18:35:07 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:35:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] comet fragment impact and 536 AD climatecollapse In-Reply-To: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1794930F@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com> Message-ID: <827519.87442.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Rob - > I guess my question is what would you have NASA do > differently? Build CAPS. > NEO searches *are* funded, and I believe at a level > commensurate with the risk. I don't believe so. Of course, the difference between you and myself is in our estimates of the risk. Mine is built on historical data... hell, I even wrote a book on recent impacts in the Americas called "Man and Impact in the Americas". > NEO searching doesn't exclude comets -- in fact at the time of > discovery, telescopes can rarely differentiate a comet from an asteroid, > as evidenced by the growing number of comets that carry asteroid > designations (e.g. C/2006 OF2, C/2007 VO53, C/2008 FK75, P/2008 QP20, > etc.) The odds of us getting blindsided by a comet with minimal warning > are already close to zero. The odds of us getting blind-sided by a 75 meter carbonaceous chondrite (dead comet fragment) Tunguska class impactor are 1 right now, and from the historical record, the next impact event will most likely be of that type. > Our worst blindspot used to be a comet approaching from the solar > direction post-perihelion, but that gap is now closed by STEREO. From any > other direction, we'll have months or even years of warning, Once again, it was a comet that killed the dinosaurs, not an asteroid. Warning times depend on cometary injection mechanisms. Space based assets provide you with the longest warning. You want the longest warning time possible - ask any dinosaur. >and when PANSTARRS finally comes on line that warning time will increase even further. PanStarrs is getting built right now because of charitable donations by Bill Gates and Charles Simonyi. God will bless them for these gifts, and NASA should not try to steal credit for their charity. Dealing with this is NASA's responsibility, and I'm tired of relying on private charity. > If your beef is in the fraction of the NASA budget set > aside for studying past impacts, it really comes down to a question of > public interest. Actually, it really comes down to the NASA PR machine fobbing off bad hazard estimates and bogus impact science. One more time, it wasn't an asteroid that killed the dinosaurs, it was a comet. And I sincerely hope that when Griffin leaves he takes Morrison with him. > The public funds NASA, and I think they are more interested in > planetary spacecraft missions, manned flight, weather, climatology, > solar physics and cosmology, Some of those are useful, some are interesting, some of them just have interested scientists who are obsessed with their work for their clientelle. By the way, Mars is not like the Earth. But another factor in the public response is that NASA has been falsely assuring the public that they have the problem in hand, when in reality they don't. Hell, NASA couldn't even handle the impact of a small piece of foam... > than they are in archaeoastronomy. There's a difference between archaeoastronomy and the study of catastrophic impacts. > Yes, impacts are interesting to *US*, but it's hard to argue that their > study pays any obvious dividends to the general public. You have to know what the hazard is to deal with it, and demonstrably NASA has let the country down. Speaking about what the people want, Administrator Griffin is still standing in contempt of the George Brown Jr. Ammendment, and the Ares 1 is the worst manned launcher I have seen. The resizing of the CEV is the key there. > --Rob E.P. From mikewren at gilanet.com Mon Jan 12 21:19:38 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 19:19:38 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: NEW ARIZONA METEORITE-37 Specimens to Choose From-15% off NOW! Message-ID: <676CAD9E-8B15-4549-A4B3-0E264BB7F2EA@gilanet.com> Hello, I have a new meteorite to offer-Wilbur Wash. I finally got around to cutting this stone and not counting the main mass-there are ONLY 600 grams to offer. Go to: http://search.stores.ebay.com/VOYAGE-BOTANICA-NATURAL-HISTORY_wilbur-wash_W0QQfciZ10QQfclZ4QQfsnZVOYAGEQ20BOTANICAQ20NATURALQ20HISTORYQQfsopZ1QQsaselZ1015304QQsofpZ0 If that link don't work. try my store main page and then in the search box--type in WILBUR WASH. That will show all! http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history Thanks and best Wishes Michael Cottingham From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 23:44:58 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:44:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA NEO funding /Impact Energy.. was comet fragment impact In-Reply-To: <827519.87442.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <996852.98851.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I fear that the Religion of Man-made-Global-Warming-Al-Gore-Sky-is-Falling-Truth(sic) and its failures to even get the direction of change right, has made enough of Joe Public "deer-in-the-headlight" skeptical regarding estimates for "soft" specifics. That unknown could be the unknown but immanent cometary strike probabilities. Add that to t fact that the average public-school-educated citizen doesn't understand the differences of possible vs potential, and a 100% certainty of collision with a 0% certainty of when. So discussion is largely moot--impact is just accelerated Climate Change. Fortunately for many of us, those simpleton fat cats will be the first selected for the Donner Protocol, post impact. Yum Yum. (If I recall the size correctly)....Of interesting but obscure side note regarding Cometary Impact Energy: a max size comet of 200 cubic kilometers (disrupted or not), arriving at cometary speeds, will deliver equivalent mega-tonnage of 34 each, 6-megaton Hydrogen bombs for--get this--Each and every one of the 6 billion human inhabitants of earth. Regardless of size, cometary ice, hitting the atmosphere at those speeds will be raised from -80?C to +10,000?C per unit-- be it a Cubic centimeter,cubic meter or, cubic kilometer. We will not be frozen ourselves before pretty much being vaporized by super heated steam. That is cooking on a cosmic scale. Elton From michael at spacerocksinc.com Tue Jan 13 00:12:14 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:12:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 13, 2009 Message-ID: <7279364.1135691231823534141.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> RSPOD: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_13_2009.html JANUARY 2009: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_2009.html _________________________________________ From epgrondine at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 01:09:52 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:09:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Comets vs. asteroids In-Reply-To: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1794945D@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com> Message-ID: <860945.73620.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Bob - > You replied: > The cost for construction, launch and mission operations of > a single surveillance sensor capable of achieving a fraction of what > you want would dwarf the current expenditures of all ground-based > NEO work. Yes, and so... > While I certainly agree that a space-based platform offers > clear advantages over the ground, We agree there. > you have to weigh that high cost against the degree of incremental > improvement provided. What you have to weigh that high cost against is the fact that mankind nearly went the way of the dinosaur several times over the last six million years, and several mt DNA groups disappeared more recently than that, and several nations disappeared more recently than that. > NEO searches *are* funded, and I believe at a level commensurate with the > risk. I don't believe so. Of course, the difference between you and myself is in our estimates of the risk. Mine is built on historical and geological data... yours on hopes and Morrison's theoretical models. Speaking of money, how many tens of millions has NASA wasted looking for Nemesis? Any way I can get 15% of that under the False Claims Act? > The risk, while real, is puny compared to more mundane threats. While we certainly have a lot of "mundane" threats, risk equals probability of occurrence versus loss per occurrence. Since you brought up threats, what is NASA expecting, invaders from Mars? > You and I will almost certainly not live long enough to see the > earth impacted by any object of significance (and I plan to live another > half century or more.) Perhaps, but based on the impacts at Rio Curaca in 1930 and Rupunini in 1935 and the small bit in Norway in 2006, try a five kiloton blast in 2022 from a 30 m fragment of SW3. > The odds of a 75-meter impactor (of any flavor) are indeed > close to one, but only if you're willing to wait long enough. But you > can't say the odds of being blind-sided by one are unity With NASA's current and planned detectors, yes I can. >-- we have space-based sensors operating 24/7 Now that's news there - are your IR detectors capable of finding 75 m objects with the luminence of a chunk of charcoal at several lunar distances? Figure in the travel times, and that's about what's needed just for a simple warning of Tunguska type objects. > and dozens of highly capable ground-based instruments > scattered around the globe, so there is at least some > chance of spotting such an interloper before impact. > (Don't forget the 3-meter object that Catalina Sky Survey spotted about a > day before impact in Sudan.) Specious rationalization of the worst sort, Bob - you mention 3 meters, but you do not mention luminence. Did you work the Columbia foam impact by any chance? Once again, it was a comet that killed the dinosaurs, not an asteroid. > What's the difference? Don't you know the difference between a comet and an asteroid? > Do you think comets are invisible? No. Do you? > In terms of detection, there is no difference between an earth-crossing > asteroid and a short period comet. Oh really? > If you're arguing that the main threat is a long-period comet, then > fine. But a space-based sensor won't help you in that case. Really? ... > That's simply not true unless you're talking about > significant aperture and a huge number of CCD detectors (gigapixel > class). How much aperture are you talking about putting up in orbit? You put it on the Moon - see the CAPS study, if NASA has not destroyed all their copies of it. In that case, ask the Chinese space leadership to give you a copy back. > The PANSTARRS PS1 telescope construction was completely > funded by the Air Force. Gates and Simonyi provided $30 million to LSST > (Large Synoptic Survey Telescope). While LSST has the capability to > detect smaller NEOs, this is not its purpose. Then why is NASA advertising it that way - what is NASA doing, lying again? Actually, all it really comes down to again and again and again is the NASA PR machine fobbing off bad impact hazard estimates and bogus impact science. One more time, it wasn't an asteroid that killed the dinosaurs, it was a comet. > You seem to have this obsession with comets, the unsubstantiated claim > that NASA doesn't care about them, NASA impact risks from comets and asteroids are published, and they're defective. > and that somehow we have designed special, hobbled sensors that are blind > to them and can only detect asteroids. Its simply the make pretend aspects of NASA's rationalizations that drive me up a wall. > And we're all aware of your disdain for Michael Griffin, who > nevertheless happens to be one of the smartest people who > has ever run NASA. I first met Mike around the time of SEI - at least then he didn't try to pretend that he knew what he was doing. Smartest people to ever run NASA? Try Paine, try Fletcher, try Truly, try Goldin - at least none of them were on Thiokol's payroll. Oh yeah, I really love the way Mike resized the CEV to make it fit the Ares 1. Thankfully, there's Direct to get us out of this mess. > Mike has a half dozen degrees in physics and engineering, and I > had first-hand experience working with him on the Delta 180 > programs when he was at JHU/APL and SDIO. If SDIO or the Air Force want a large solid launcher for defense purposes, then they can pay for it out of their budgets. Wernher von Braun said it a long time ago: solids lack abort modes. > You may not like the direction that he took NASA, but his decisions were > not made in ignorance. The historical office debrief will come soon. And the correspondence will be available in the archives. All of it. In the meantime, here's a hot idea: let's shut down NASA, and get Walmart to buy CAPS from China for us: Flaster, Bletter, Cheapel. Or do you think that the southern and western states' military industrial companies might object? > --Rob E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From parkforestmet at hotmail.com Tue Jan 13 02:17:09 2009 From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:17:09 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Speak up for Cottingham Message-ID: [meteorite-list] From the meteorite-list Admin - posting Ads Art blurtheline at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 00:37:42 EST 2008 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Request for help in ID of a mineral Next message: [meteorite-list] From the meteorite-list Admin - posting Ads Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good evening! I wanted to send a quick reminder regarding posting ads on the list. While most members do like seeing all of the interesting specimens that are offered for sale on the list, sometimes ads tend to get a bit overwhelming. To keep things from getting out of control please limit ads to one per week. Also remember to start the subject line of the email with 'SALE' or 'AD'. Hope everyone has a wonderful holiday and prosperous new year! Best Regards, Art _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009 From mikewren at gilanet.com Tue Jan 13 03:35:08 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:35:08 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Speak up for Cottingham In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0143C919-7D9B-4897-9E14-878D039CEC3B@gilanet.com> Bill, I will respond. I am curious. Do you belong to some neighborhood watch group or some other neo-nazi group that has nothing better to do. Your time might be better served hunting for meteorites. ADs:, Dec 24th, Jan 7th, Jan 9th, Jan 12th, -Four ads in 20 days. Your right Bill, I am 1 ad over the official limit during that time frame! I am sure glad your keeping track. Good work buddy. Just for the record, I do try and obey the rules, but I am not always perfect. By the way Bill, I have Auctions Ending On Weds/14th in case you collect meteorites and are interested in buying some. Now if you have anything to say to me keep it off the list and send it to me directly. I am sure 99% of the folks don't really care. SPEAK UP FOR COTTINGHAM Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:17 AM, bill kies wrote: > > > [meteorite-list] From the meteorite-list Admin - posting Ads > Art blurtheline at gmail.com > Tue Dec 23 00:37:42 EST 2008 > Previous message: [meteorite-list] Request for help in ID of a mineral > Next message: [meteorite-list] From the meteorite-list Admin - > posting Ads > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Good evening! > I wanted to send a quick reminder regarding posting ads on the list. > While most members do like seeing all of the interesting specimens > that are offered for sale on the list, sometimes ads tend to get a bit > overwhelming. To keep things from getting out of control please limit > ads to one per week. Also remember to start the subject line of the > email with 'SALE' or 'AD'. > Hope everyone has a wonderful holiday and prosperous new year! > Best Regards, Art > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mojave_meteorites at cox.net Tue Jan 13 03:39:40 2009 From: mojave_meteorites at cox.net (Rob Matson) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 00:39:40 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Comets vs. asteroids In-Reply-To: <860945.73620.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi E.P., > What you have to weigh that high cost against is the fact that > mankind nearly went the way of the dinosaur several times over > the last six million years, and several mt DNA groups disappeared > more recently than that, and several nations disappeared more > recently than that. Well, where do you draw the line on the expense of your "insurance policy", when there is no way to cash it in if you're right? We're finding the planet killers and continent killers at a pretty fast clip. Launching a satellite or two to join in the search is a bit like confiscating shampoo bottles from airline passengers: it's "security theater". (No one is in the least bit safer on jet airlines, btw -- just more inconvenienced and irritated.) Within a few years we will have found and ruled out all of the potential state-sized killers. Beyond that, you're money is probably better spent elsewhere. > Of course, the difference between you and myself is in our > estimates of the risk. Mine is built on historical and geological > data... yours on hopes and Morrison's theoretical models. My threat estimate is based on my own math and understanding of solar system dynamics. > Speaking of money, how many tens of millions has NASA wasted looking > for Nemesis? Seems to me you're simply looking for your own version of Nemesis. What makes your Moby Dick comet any more urgent or probable in the next five centuries? >> The risk, while real, is puny compared to more mundane threats. > While we certainly have a lot of "mundane" threats, risk equals > probability of occurrence versus loss per occurrence. Knowledge of the threat doesn't mean a lot when you have no means of preventing it. We ~barely~ have the technology to prevent an impact that is, say, a decade out. The threats that worry you we have absolutely zero ability to prevent, any more than a supervolcano eruption in Yellowstone. The smart money is spent on those threats that we CAN do something about. >> The odds of a 75-meter impactor (of any flavor) are indeed >> close to one, but only if you're willing to wait long enough. But you >> can't say the odds of being blind-sided by one are unity > With NASA's current and planned detectors, yes I can. Okay, you can say it, but that doesn't make it true. ;-) >>-- we have space-based sensors operating 24/7 > Now that's news there - are your IR detectors capable of finding > 75 m objects with the luminence of a chunk of charcoal at several > lunar distances? Surely you must know that most catalogued asteroids are about as dark as charcoal. Typical reflectivities are 6-10%. You can find them just fine in the visible; even better in the IR. >> and dozens of highly capable ground-based instruments >> scattered around the globe, so there is at least some >> chance of spotting such an interloper before impact. >> (Don't forget the 3-meter object that Catalina Sky Survey >> spotted about a day before impact in Sudan.) > Specious rationalization of the worst sort, Bob Hardly -- it demonstrates that current ground-based technology is perfectly capable of detecting threats smaller than you care about. It's not the brightness that's the problem, it's the revisit rate -- a classic surveillance problem. Adding one satellite helps incrementally, but it's no magic bullet. > - you mention 3 meters, but you do not mention luminence I chose a physical dimension because the radiance units (watts/cm^2-sr) would likely be of no help to you. > Did you work the Columbia foam impact by any chance? I have no idea where you're going with such an unrelated topic. If you insist on employing sarcasm, slamming NASA, or both, that's you're business, but I don't see the relevance. I don't work for NASA. > Once again, it was a comet that killed the dinosaurs, not an asteroid. >> What's the difference? > Don't you know the difference between a comet and an asteroid? I do. I'm asking for relevance to the problem at hand. I doubt the city about to be wiped off the face of the planet cares whether the rock they get hit by happens to have a little ice mixed in. >> In terms of detection, there is no difference between an earth-crossing >> asteroid and a short period comet. > Oh really? Yes -- unless of course you'd like that comet to be active, in which case the comet is far easier to detect than the asteroid of comparable mass. >> If you're arguing that the main threat is a long-period comet, then >> fine. But a space-based sensor won't help you in that case. > Really? Yes, because the more sensitive ground-based instruments would most likely find it first. I asked: >> How much aperture are you talking about putting up in orbit? You replied: > You put it on the Moon - see the CAPS study, if NASA has not destroyed > all their copies of it. Well, now you're REALLY talking about some money. I doubt anyone could do it for under ten billion and in less than 10 years. That's a pretty expensive insurance policy, in return for a very small incremental benefit. It's not going to pass a Congressional cost- benefit analysis. > One more time, it wasn't an asteroid that killed the dinosaurs, it was > a comet. So we should stop looking for asteroids? What's your point? Repeating the same phrase over and over adds nothing to the discussion. Context? Relevance? > NASA impact risks from comets and asteroids are published, and they're > defective. Some astronomers have argued the opposite -- that they're overly alarmist. > Wernher von Braun said it a long time ago: solids lack abort modes. True; then again, Roman Candles burn nice and slow. Cryogenic liquid tanks explode. Choose your poison. --Rob From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Tue Jan 13 11:12:16 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:12:16 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Speak up for Cottingham In-Reply-To: <0143C919-7D9B-4897-9E14-878D039CEC3B@gilanet.com> References: <0143C919-7D9B-4897-9E14-878D039CEC3B@gilanet.com> Message-ID: Nazis?! ---------------------------------------- > From: mikewren at gilanet.com > To: parkforestmet at hotmail.com > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 01:35:08 -0700 > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Speak up for Cottingham > > Bill, > > I will respond. I am curious. Do you belong to some neighborhood watch > group or some other neo-nazi group that has nothing better to do. Your > time might be better served hunting for meteorites. > > ADs:, Dec 24th, Jan 7th, Jan 9th, Jan 12th, -Four ads in 20 days. > Your right Bill, I am 1 ad over the official limit during that time > frame! I am sure glad your keeping > track. Good work buddy. > > Just for the record, I do try and obey the rules, but I am not always > perfect. > > By the way Bill, I have Auctions Ending On Weds/14th in case you > collect meteorites and are interested in buying some. > > > Now if you have anything to say to me keep it off the list and send it > to me directly. I am sure 99% of the folks don't really care. > > SPEAK UP FOR COTTINGHAM > > Best Wishes > > Michael Cottingham > > > > > > > > > On Jan 13, 2009, at 12:17 AM, bill kies wrote: > >> >> >> [meteorite-list] From the meteorite-list Admin - posting Ads >> Art blurtheline at gmail.com >> Tue Dec 23 00:37:42 EST 2008 >> Previous message: [meteorite-list] Request for help in ID of a mineral >> Next message: [meteorite-list] From the meteorite-list Admin - >> posting Ads >> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Good evening! >> I wanted to send a quick reminder regarding posting ads on the list. >> While most members do like seeing all of the interesting specimens >> that are offered for sale on the list, sometimes ads tend to get a bit >> overwhelming. To keep things from getting out of control please limit >> ads to one per week. Also remember to start the subject line of the >> email with 'SALE' or 'AD'. >> Hope everyone has a wonderful holiday and prosperous new year! >> Best Regards, Art >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. >> http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 11:15:31 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:15:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: More than 50 one-cent meteorite ending in hours Message-ID: <647809.74392.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.meteorite.com/farmer/ Hello, well, Tucson 2009 is almost here, so I am ramping up ebay to get more money for the show. Some fantastic meteorite up tonight, all started at one cent, where they end, they sell! Large pieces, like Muonionalusta, and a huge Toluca slice! Check them all out at Paul's link above. Many are still near one cent right now. Michael Farmer From epgrondine at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 11:22:48 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:22:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Comets vs. asteroids In-Reply-To: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F17737C38@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com> Message-ID: <569641.6836.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Bob - A great technique - just keep repeating the same falacies again and again and again in different places, and perhaps some of them will stand. As you put it, repeating the same phrase over and over adds nothing to the discussion. So let's simply go to the biggest falacy first: > The threats that worry you we have absolutely zero ability to prevent, and > Knowledge of the threat doesn't mean a lot when you have no means of > preventing it. Coming from SDIO, you know about SSHCL, solid state heat capacity lasers, and they can be used to divert anything if it is found early enough. There's tsar bombas as well. > We're finding the planet killers and continent killers > at a pretty fast clip. and > Within a few years we will have found and ruled out all of > the potential state-sized killers. NASA is now finding the larger and brighter asteroids at a fairly fast clip (and by the way, getting NASA to do even that was a battle, and I've got bad scars to prove it). NASA can not adequately detect major parts of the impact hazard, specifically 75 m dead comet chunks and Long Period Comets. > > Now that's news there - are your IR detectors > > capable of finding 75 m objects with the luminence of a chunk of > > charcoal at several lunar distances? > > Surely you must know that most catalogued asteroids are > about as dark as charcoal. Typical reflectivities are 6-10%. But what is the reflectivity of carbonaceous chondrite, the darkest of the dark? I'm sure some list members can give us the exact numbers. > I chose a physical dimension because the radiance units > (watts/cm^2-sr) would likely be of no help to you. I'm sure some list members can break it down to photons per bucket, if you want to try it - or see the CAPS study, where that was done, that is if NASA has not destroyed all their copies of it. >You can find them just fine in the visible; even better in the IR. Okay, even better in the IR, so why isn't NASA using it? And LIDAR and radar work even better. Where are our space based NEO detectors? > It's not the brightness that's the problem, it's the revisit rate -- a > classic surveillance problem. Count on no revisits. Dead comet fragments may well come along Long Period Comet paths. > Adding one satellite helps incrementally, but it's no magic bullet. Well, it's better than no bullet at all. Concerning CAPS, you wrote: > Well, now you're REALLY talking about some money. I > doubt anyone could do it for under ten billion and in less than 10 > years. That's a pretty expensive insurance policy, in return for a very > small incremental benefit. It's not going to pass a Congressional cost- > benefit analysis. It already did pass - that's why the Congress passed the George Brown Jr. ammendment to NASA's charter. As far as the benefits go, apparently the Congress did not trust NASA's numbers, and rightly so. Now since we're going to return to the Moon to keep up with China, why don't we do something useful while we're there? E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Matson, Robert D. wrote: > From: Matson, Robert D. > Subject: RE: Comets vs. asteroids > To: epgrondine at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 2:02 AM > Hi E.P., > > > What you have to weigh that high cost against is the > fact that > > mankind nearly went the way of the dinosaur several > times over > > the last six million years, and several mt DNA groups > disappeared > > more recently than that, and several nations > disappeared more > > recently than that. > > Well, where do you draw the line on the expense of your > "insurance > policy", when there is no way to cash it in if > you're right? > We're finding the planet killers and continent killers > at a pretty > fast clip. Launching a satellite or two to join in the > search > is a bit like confiscating shampoo bottles from airline > passengers: > it's "security theater". (No one is in the > least bit safer on > jet airlines, btw -- just more inconvenienced and > irritated.) > Within a few years we will have found and ruled out all of > the > potential state-sized killers. Beyond that, you're > money is > probably better spent elsewhere. > > > Of course, the difference between you and myself is in > our > > estimates of the risk. Mine is built on historical and > geological > > data... yours on hopes and Morrison's theoretical > models. > > My threat estimate is based on my own math and > understanding of > solar system dynamics. > > > Speaking of money, how many tens of millions has NASA > wasted looking for Nemesis? > > Seems to me you're simply looking for your own version > of Nemesis. > What makes your Moby Dick comet any more urgent or probable > in the > next five centuries? > > >> The risk, while real, is puny compared to more > mundane threats. > > > While we certainly have a lot of "mundane" > threats, risk equals > > probability of occurrence versus loss per occurrence. > > Knowledge of the threat doesn't mean a lot when you > have no means > of preventing it. We ~barely~ have the technology to > prevent an > impact that is, say, a decade out. The threats that worry > you we > have absolutely zero ability to prevent, any more than a > supervolcano > eruption in Yellowstone. The smart money is spent on those > threats > that we CAN do something about. > > >> The odds of a 75-meter impactor (of any flavor) > are indeed > >> close to one, but only if you're willing to > wait long enough. But you > >> can't say the odds of being blind-sided by one > are unity > > > With NASA's current and planned detectors, yes I > can. > > Okay, you can say it, but that doesn't make it true. > ;-) > > >>-- we have space-based sensors operating 24/7 > > > Now that's news there - are your IR detectors > capable of finding > > 75 m objects with the luminence of a chunk of charcoal > at several > > lunar distances? > > Surely you must know that most catalogued asteroids are > about as > dark as charcoal. Typical reflectivities are 6-10%. You can > find > them just fine in the visible; even better in the IR. > > >> and dozens of highly capable ground-based > instruments > >> scattered around the globe, so there is at least > some > >> chance of spotting such an interloper before > impact. > >> (Don't forget the 3-meter object that Catalina > Sky Survey > >> spotted about a day before impact in Sudan.) > > > Specious rationalization of the worst sort, Bob > > Hardly -- it demonstrates that current ground-based > technology > is perfectly capable of detecting threats smaller than you > care > about. It's not the brightness that's the problem, > it's the > revisit rate -- a classic surveillance problem. Adding one > satellite helps incrementally, but it's no magic > bullet. > > > - you mention 3 meters, but you do not mention > luminence > > I chose a physical dimension because the radiance units > (watts/cm^2-sr) > would likely be of no help to you. > > > Did you work the Columbia foam impact by any chance? > > I have no idea where you're going with such an > unrelated topic. > If you insist on employing sarcasm, slamming NASA, or both, > that's > you're business, but I don't see the relevance. I > don't work for > NASA. > > > Once again, it was a comet that killed the dinosaurs, > not an asteroid. > >> What's the difference? > > > Don't you know the difference between a comet and > an asteroid? > > I do. I'm asking for relevance to the problem at hand. > I doubt the > city about to be wiped off the face of the planet cares > whether the > rock they get hit by happens to have a little ice mixed in. > > >> In terms of detection, there is no difference > between an earth-crossing > >> asteroid and a short period comet. > > > Oh really? > > Yes -- unless of course you'd like that comet to be > active, in which case > the comet is far easier to detect than the asteroid of > comparable mass. > > >> If you're arguing that the main threat is a > long-period comet, then > >> fine. But a space-based sensor won't help you > in that case. > > > Really? > > Yes, because the more sensitive ground-based instruments > would most > likely find it first. > > I asked: > > >> How much aperture are you talking about putting up > in orbit? > > You replied: > > > You put it on the Moon - see the CAPS study, if NASA > has not destroyed > > all their copies of it. > > Well, now you're REALLY talking about some money. I > doubt anyone > could do it for under ten billion and in less than 10 > years. That's > a pretty expensive insurance policy, in return for a very > small > incremental benefit. It's not going to pass a > Congressional cost- > benefit analysis. > > > One more time, it wasn't an asteroid that killed > the dinosaurs, it was > > a comet. > > So we should stop looking for asteroids? What's your > point? Repeating > the same phrase over and over adds nothing to the > discussion. Context? > Relevance? > > > NASA impact risks from comets and asteroids are > published, and they're > > defective. > > Some astronomers have argued the opposite -- that > they're overly > alarmist. > > > Wernher von Braun said it a long time ago: solids lack > abort modes. > > True; then again, Roman Candles burn nice and slow. > Cryogenic liquid > tanks explode. Choose your poison. --Rob From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 11:55:45 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 08:55:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5480 thin section image Message-ID: <863348.70428.qm@web45603.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I thought some of you might like to see a thin section image of the awesome new NWA 5480 Olivine diogenite I had made. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_5480_11.jpg Greg C. From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Tue Jan 13 12:07:46 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:07:46 EST Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5480 thin section image Message-ID: Job well done! That is a beautiful image. Tom In a message dated 1/13/2009 9:56:14 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, star_wars_collector at yahoo.com writes: I thought some of you might like to see a thin section image of the awesome new NWA 5480 Olivine diogenite I had made. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_5480_11.jpg Greg C. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De cemailfooterNO62) From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jan 13 12:00:55 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 13 Jan 2009 17:00:55 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5480 thin section image Message-ID: Greg writes: "I thought some of you might like to see a thin section image of the awesome new NWA 5480 Olivine diogenite I had made" http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_5480_11.jpg Beautiful, all the vivid colors of these olivines and pyroxenes in x-pol. light! Thanks, Greg, for sharing with us! Best from Germany, Bernd From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr Tue Jan 13 14:08:33 2009 From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?q?Pel=E9=20Pierre-Marie?=) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 20:08:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD> encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com for sale Message-ID: <965589.13007.qm@web23003.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hello, only 17 days left for bidding. Don't forget to send to me your sealed bids. On january 31, at midnight, it will be too late. More info : http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2009-January/048615.html Pierre-Marie Pele www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com From bobadebt at ec.rr.com Tue Jan 13 17:36:55 2009 From: bobadebt at ec.rr.com (David & Kitt Deyarmin) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:36:55 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Zag for $1.50 per Gram Message-ID: <06E807CC29F54D3C8C9DF90E2A380862@David> All of the Zag has been sold Thanks ___________________________________________________ I sold a 55 gram slice so the total weight of the lot has dropped to 243 grams, at $1.50 per gram it would cost about $365 which isn't bad for 12 slices ___________________________________________________ By the way, if anyone is interested in a single slice the $2 per gram cost applies. Thanks ___________________________________________________ If anyone is interested in all of my remaining Zag stock I will sell it to you at $1.50 per gram According to my web site I have 13 slices left that weigh 298 grams. You can view the slices by clicking this http://home.roadrunner.com/~bobadebt/Subpages/FS%20Zag.htm If interested email me off list at bobadebt @ ec.rr.com Thanks ___________________________________________________ From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 17:59:46 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 14:59:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] tucson 2009 Message-ID: <695766.22385.qm@web57808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Good evening list.I was just wondering if any our good european friends were coming to tucson this year.We do not see very many of you very often.It would be great to see some of you. ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From mfcollecter at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 18:02:54 2009 From: mfcollecter at yahoo.com (Said Haddany) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:02:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD:Tichka new fall is ready for sale now Message-ID: <373059.76306.qm@web34303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi List , There are few specimens from the tichka new fall for sale now. contact me off the list if it is interested. cheers ? Said Haddany From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 18:05:15 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:05:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] 3 more images of NWA 5480 thin section Message-ID: <346167.86264.qm@web45609.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Here are 3 more images of a different thin section that was made from NWA 5480 material from Greg Hupe. This new meteorite makes some impressive thin sections. All 3 of these have outstanding features and are really neat to look at. I would place the NWA 5480 as one of my nicest thin section samples in my collection and a must have for thin section collectors. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_5480_3.jpg This one shows real interesting features. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_5480_4.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_5480_5.jpg Greg C. From jeffkrosschell at comcast.net Tue Jan 13 19:45:50 2009 From: jeffkrosschell at comcast.net (Jeff Krosschell) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:45:50 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Message-ID: Hello List Members, This is just a reminder that I have some great auctions ending tonight including the auction for the Antique Kelsey Excelsior printing press owned and operated by Harvey H. Nininger. Click on the link below to visit this auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item =120360067070 Click on the link below to see other great auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZkalani_oftheheavens Best Regards, Jeff Krosschell Kalani of the Heavens From bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 19:57:29 2009 From: bigpineartifacts at yahoo.com (mckinney trammell) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 16:57:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] eucrite fall on ebay millbillillie Message-ID: <989410.2860.qm@web53201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZpaleoasis i have 2 NICE eucrite individuals on ebay for one-dollar, no reserve. From epgrondine at yahoo.com Tue Jan 13 21:31:34 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 18:31:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Comets vs. asteroids In-Reply-To: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F17737C38@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com> Message-ID: <579647.7188.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Bob - There were so many falacies in your post that with my stroke damage I let some major howlers get through in my reply. So.... I wrote: Wernher von Braun said it a long time ago: solids lack abort modes. and you wrote: > True; then again, Roman Candles burn nice and slow. > Cryogenic liquid tanks explode. Choose your poison. --Rob Actually, turbine, combustion chamber and propellant line failures give some warning, and the ahutdown/abort systems can be brought into play. Not so with solids, which have sudden catastrophic failure modes - though the Direct team has re-sensored the SRBs to deal with this as best as can be done. Why Mike resized the CEV so that it exceeded EELV capablities and required a large solid launcher is a great question. Given your work with Griffin in SDIO, I would ask about the need for large solid launchers for defense purposes, but then this is a public forum. I assume Garver, Ladwig, and Obama already know, they''ll share want they want to with us sometime next week, or within the next few months. > Well, where do you draw the line on the expense of your > "insurance policy" Ask the Chinese. Their national emblem is a dragon commemorating a comet; their first emperor was killed in an impact event; they lost nearly all their commercial shipping fleet to impact mega-tsunami around 1431 CE, which left them open to foreign attack and centuries of suffering. I haven't broken CAPS out into CZ5 launches yet, to come up with remin costs. Whatever the cost, the value returned by CAPS far exceeds the value of flying a few men to Mars for a few days. In any case, it is highly unlikely that China will bear this cost by itself, but quite likely that other nations will want to participate with them in CAPS by the 2020's. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Matson, Robert D. wrote: > From: Matson, Robert D. > Subject: RE: Comets vs. asteroids > To: epgrondine at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 2:02 AM > Hi E.P., > > > What you have to weigh that high cost against is the > fact that > > mankind nearly went the way of the dinosaur several > times over > > the last six million years, and several mt DNA groups > disappeared > > more recently than that, and several nations > disappeared more > > recently than that. > > Well, where do you draw the line on the expense of your > "insurance > policy", when there is no way to cash it in if > you're right? > We're finding the planet killers and continent killers > at a pretty > fast clip. Launching a satellite or two to join in the > search > is a bit like confiscating shampoo bottles from airline > passengers: > it's "security theater". (No one is in the > least bit safer on > jet airlines, btw -- just more inconvenienced and > irritated.) > Within a few years we will have found and ruled out all of > the > potential state-sized killers. Beyond that, you're > money is > probably better spent elsewhere. > > > Of course, the difference between you and myself is in > our > > estimates of the risk. Mine is built on historical and > geological > > data... yours on hopes and Morrison's theoretical > models. > > My threat estimate is based on my own math and > understanding of > solar system dynamics. > > > Speaking of money, how many tens of millions has NASA > wasted looking > > for Nemesis? > > Seems to me you're simply looking for your own version > of Nemesis. > What makes your Moby Dick comet any more urgent or probable > in the > next five centuries? > > >> The risk, while real, is puny compared to more > mundane threats. > > > While we certainly have a lot of "mundane" > threats, risk equals > > probability of occurrence versus loss per occurrence. > > Knowledge of the threat doesn't mean a lot when you > have no means > of preventing it. We ~barely~ have the technology to > prevent an > impact that is, say, a decade out. The threats that worry > you we > have absolutely zero ability to prevent, any more than a > supervolcano > eruption in Yellowstone. The smart money is spent on those > threats > that we CAN do something about. > > >> The odds of a 75-meter impactor (of any flavor) > are indeed > >> close to one, but only if you're willing to > wait long enough. But you > >> can't say the odds of being blind-sided by one > are unity > > > With NASA's current and planned detectors, yes I > can. > > Okay, you can say it, but that doesn't make it true. > ;-) > > >>-- we have space-based sensors operating 24/7 > > > Now that's news there - are your IR detectors > capable of finding > > 75 m objects with the luminence of a chunk of charcoal > at several > > lunar distances? > > Surely you must know that most catalogued asteroids are > about as > dark as charcoal. Typical reflectivities are 6-10%. You can > find > them just fine in the visible; even better in the IR. > > >> and dozens of highly capable ground-based > instruments > >> scattered around the globe, so there is at least > some > >> chance of spotting such an interloper before > impact. > >> (Don't forget the 3-meter object that Catalina > Sky Survey > >> spotted about a day before impact in Sudan.) > > > Specious rationalization of the worst sort, Bob > > Hardly -- it demonstrates that current ground-based > technology > is perfectly capable of detecting threats smaller than you > care > about. It's not the brightness that's the problem, > it's the > revisit rate -- a classic surveillance problem. Adding one > satellite helps incrementally, but it's no magic > bullet. > > > - you mention 3 meters, but you do not mention > luminence > > I chose a physical dimension because the radiance units > (watts/cm^2-sr) > would likely be of no help to you. > > > Did you work the Columbia foam impact by any chance? > > I have no idea where you're going with such an > unrelated topic. > If you insist on employing sarcasm, slamming NASA, or both, > that's > you're business, but I don't see the relevance. I > don't work for > NASA. > > > Once again, it was a comet that killed the dinosaurs, > not an asteroid. > >> What's the difference? > > > Don't you know the difference between a comet and > an asteroid? > > I do. I'm asking for relevance to the problem at hand. > I doubt the > city about to be wiped off the face of the planet cares > whether the > rock they get hit by happens to have a little ice mixed in. > > >> In terms of detection, there is no difference > between an earth-crossing > >> asteroid and a short period comet. > > > Oh really? > > Yes -- unless of course you'd like that comet to be > active, in which case > the comet is far easier to detect than the asteroid of > comparable mass. > > >> If you're arguing that the main threat is a > long-period comet, then > >> fine. But a space-based sensor won't help you > in that case. > > > Really? > > Yes, because the more sensitive ground-based instruments > would most > likely find it first. > > I asked: > > >> How much aperture are you talking about putting up > in orbit? > > You replied: > > > You put it on the Moon - see the CAPS study, if NASA > has not destroyed > > all their copies of it. > > Well, now you're REALLY talking about some money. I > doubt anyone > could do it for under ten billion and in less than 10 > years. That's > a pretty expensive insurance policy, in return for a very > small > incremental benefit. It's not going to pass a > Congressional cost- > benefit analysis. > > > One more time, it wasn't an asteroid that killed > the dinosaurs, it was > > a comet. > > So we should stop looking for asteroids? What's your > point? Repeating > the same phrase over and over adds nothing to the > discussion. Context? > Relevance? > > > NASA impact risks from comets and asteroids are > published, and they're > > defective. > > Some astronomers have argued the opposite -- that > they're overly > alarmist. > > > Wernher von Braun said it a long time ago: solids lack > abort modes. > > True; then again, Roman Candles burn nice and slow. > Cryogenic liquid > tanks explode. Choose your poison. --Rob From michael at spacerocksinc.com Wed Jan 14 00:37:43 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 21:37:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - January 14, 2009 Message-ID: <11066730.1270591231911463901.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/January_14_2009.html From mojave_meteorites at cox.net Wed Jan 14 01:46:10 2009 From: mojave_meteorites at cox.net (Rob Matson) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 22:46:10 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Comets vs. asteroids In-Reply-To: <579647.7188.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi E.P., I hesitate to respond from work since the oddities of the MetList prevent my posts from reaching it when I reply from my work e-mail address (perhaps to the relief of many members). Nevertheless, I'll press on and forward the message from my home account when I get there (though the subject matter is veering off-topic, and few people care about this subject). > Hi Bob - [FYI, "Bob" is not my name. I realize that it's a popular short version of "Robert", but I have never signed an email by anything other than Rob.] > There were so many falacies in your post that with my stroke > damage I let some major howlers get through in my reply. E.P. (Ed?) -- I don't post falacies, I post facts. On those occasions when I post opinions, I label them as such. You're not going to trip me up when the subject matter is solar system dynamics, comets, asteroids, optics, physics, orbital mechanics or general astronomy, so please don't even try. > Actually, turbine, combustion chamber and propellant line > failures give some warning, and the (s)hutdown/abort systems > can be brought into play. Not so with solids, which have > sudden catastrophic failure modes ... I don't think I need to remind you that it wasn't the Shuttle's SRBs that exploded -- it was the External Tank. Yes, the SRBs were *responsible* for rupturing that tank, but that wasn't a fault of the solid propellant. If the Shuttle had been 100% solids it wouldn't have exploded. The crew would still have been lost (since there was no escape option in 1986), but *had* there been a rapid egress system, their chances of survival certainly would have been better if they hadn't been riding a liquid bomb. > Why Mike resized the CEV so that it exceeded EELV capablities > and required a large solid launcher is a great question. Given > your work with Griffin in SDIO, I would ask about the need for > large solid launchers for defense purposes, but then this is a > public forum. I assume Garver, Ladwig, and Obama already know, > they'll share want they want to with us sometime next week... Completely off-topic and of no interest to me. >> Well, where do you draw the line on the expense of your >> "insurance policy" > Ask the Chinese. Their national emblem is a dragon commemorating > a comet; their first emperor was killed in an impact event; they > lost nearly all their commercial shipping fleet to impact mega- > tsunami around 1431 CE, which left them open to foreign attack > and centuries of suffering. That's a cop-out -- I'm not asking the Chinese, I'm asking you. How much money are you willing to throw at this perceived deficiency? If you were presenting a proposal to Congress or the American people, do you really think your ancient Chinese examples would be that persuasive? > I haven't broken CAPS out into CZ5 launches yet, to come up with > remin costs. Whatever the cost, the value returned by CAPS far > exceeds the value of flying a few men to Mars for a few days. To average citizens in 2009 trying to stay in their homes and feed their families, I'd say there was little value in either activity. The only way you'll get their attention is through extortion: perhaps threatening to deprive them of American Idol or The Bachelor. --Rob From deanbessey at yahoo.com Wed Jan 14 02:41:59 2009 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2009 23:41:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Deans big Ebay news update + NZ FOSSILS In-Reply-To: <11066730.1270591231911463901.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> Message-ID: <283333.57097.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I have decided that I will (For the next few months anyway) retire my main ebay user id AMUNRE In its place I will be using a new ebay user id EARTHLYTREASURES_NZ. See link here: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&since=1&userid=earthlytreasures_nz&include=0&rows=200&sort=3&completed=1 I have over 100 meteorites now listed on my new user id and in a weeks time will list lots more. Some great NWA's listed including some nice crusted stuff listed at 99 cents. Check them out now to get first pickings as there is some nice stuff there. I will slowly run down and move all of the old AMUNRE listings to the new id but I would rather sell them instead so if you see anything of interest in my old AMUNRE id (There are over 900 auctions listed of all sorts of stuff) let me know as I am into making a deal. I also have found a great source for rarely seen New Zealand fossils. The fossils on this website: http://www.earthlytreasures.co.nz/pages/nzfossilpage1.html These are all priced in New Zealand dollars so US dollar paying customers gets a 42% discount on the fossils on this one website. I also have NZ fossils listed on both my ebay user id's (Ebay ones all priced in US dollars). Sincerely DEAN BESSEY www.meteoriteshop.com www.earthlytreasures.co.nz earthlytreasures_nz on Ebay AMUNRE on Ebay From mexicodoug at aim.com Wed Jan 14 03:32:59 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 03:32:59 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Comets vs. asteroids In-Reply-To: <579647.7188.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CB4439D6DC6322-544-1980@webmail-de21.sysops.aol.com> Hi Ed, Rob and friends interested in ranking risks to the species due to impacts, in the big scheme of things: 1. These folks at Change that's Right Now offer an interesting comet erradication program: http://tinyurl.com/a6c273 (no sarcasm - just smiling at what folks will do to make a virtual buck) 2. On a more serious note: http://tinyurl.com/75fkcd (Appeared in Time Magazine 2006) 3. And for the scientists and skeptics who would like to put this debate and objective context: http://tinyurl.com/2ukunw (Excellent reading! Read this and I promise you will modify how you think about something) 4. And if you need to explain it to your kids: http://tinyurl.com/5nmebk (super insight on all bureaucracies) Good Health, Doug (<== http://tinyurl.com/7kyv49 ) PS Ed, as far as I know, NASA has not violated the charter/bill from US Congress you mentioned, as it deals with 140 meter objects and greater sizes, not 75 meter diameter objects that you seem to have gravitated towards. It also seems about 1000 of the predicted 1100 NEO's have been found, ahead of the timetable. But this discussion is not really my cup of tea. PPS As a social imperative, NASA might be better off to continue its efforts in developing a means to settle other worlds and worldlets. Even the most primitive organisms recognize the benefit of proliferation outside the cradle so all eggs aren't in one basket, and this is much more far reaching than an asteroid impact. Also it is much more consistent with the human 'spirit'. If it were up to me, I would give this NASA's newly found defense responsibility back, along with all launches and manned flight, to the American Air Force, but split the research function out and make a new organization dedicated solely to space exploration and low power interplanetary navigation systems. JPL might take the lead. From mojave_meteorites at cox.net Wed Jan 14 03:41:15 2009 From: mojave_meteorites at cox.net (Rob Matson) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 00:41:15 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dead-comet reflectivity In-Reply-To: <569641.6836.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: E.P. asked about dead-comet albedos: > But what is the reflectivity of carbonaceous chondrite, the darkest > of the dark? I'm sure some list members can give us the exact numbers. The very darkest "asteroids" in comet-like orbits (Tisserand value < 3) have geometric albedos as low as 3%, though 5% is more common, and anything less than 7.5% is considered "comet-like". The average NEO albedo is around 10%, so a little more than three times brighter than the darkest dead comet core. In terms of detection distance, this means that spotting the darkest comet at the distance of the Moon is equivalent to spotting a NEO of the same size at 1.83 times the Moon's distance (1.83 x 384,000 km = ~703,000 km). 2008 TC3 (the Sudan impactor) was discovered at a distance of 487,000 km (1.27 lunar distances) at magnitude +18.8 (not especially dim). If it had an albedo of 10%, then its size was around 3.2 meters. If instead it was a dead comet with a 3% albedo, then its size was around 5.8 meters. So let's assume it ~was~ a dead comet core, but instead of 5.8 meters let's make it a 50-meter object. In this case, it would have reached that same magnitude +18.8 at a distance of 1.43 million km (3.7 lunar distances), providing nearly three times the warning time of 2008 TC3. The point I'm trying to illustrate is that spotting a 50-meter extinct comet at two or three lunar distances is not a problem for current ground-based survey instruments (provided the solar elongation is greater than, say, 70 degrees). Yes, a Moon-based instrument could detect objects at lower solar elongations, but the poor phase angle unfortunately means that you would still have very little warning time -- less than 24 hours. I doubt that would be sufficient to evacuate a medium-sized city. --Rob From mlblood at cox.net Wed Jan 14 05:52:03 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 02:52:03 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Info / AD In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For those interested in printing out the on-line Catalog To the Tucson Auction, there is now a "PRINT" copy (no background - some different info). Just go to the Auction Catalog and there are 3 or 4 "links" in Conspicuous places. Best wishes, Michael PS: More entrees are still welcome and will continue to "go up" Until I leave in the middle of next week. From marcin at meteoryty.pl Wed Jan 14 06:20:10 2009 From: marcin at meteoryty.pl (Marcin Cimala - PolandMET) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:20:10 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fantastic World of Zaklodzie E-rich Ungr. Achondrite References: <20090108144017.KKRLL.404053.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> <8AFFB2D165CA4574B3B630C6BDFA5041@StarmanPC> Message-ID: <000c01c9763a$0fed4b00$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> Hello List I have upload new, actual and high quality photos of Zaklodzie. Photos made on August 2008 Visit http://www.PolandMET.com -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From info at meteorites.com.au Wed Jan 14 07:02:25 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 23:02:25 +1100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Monthly Favourite - October 2008 Message-ID: <3DF9423287E14A0EBA5423511E056FDA@JeffPC> http://www.meteorites.com.au/favourite/october2008.html Cheers, Jeff Kuyken Meteorites Australia www.meteorites.com.au Director - I.M.C.A. Inc. www.imca.cc From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Wed Jan 14 07:27:35 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 13:27:35 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fantastic World of Zaklodzie E-rich Ungr. Achondrite In-Reply-To: <000c01c9763a$0fed4b00$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> References: <20090108144017.KKRLL.404053.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> <8AFFB2D165CA4574B3B630C6BDFA5041@StarmanPC> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20090114132409.029370f8@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Excellent pics of the main mass Marcin! 2 questions: 1) is the tan-white area containing the metal islands of "eucritic" type ? 2) From which source do you know that the TKW of Brahin and Chinga are respectively 823 Kg and about 200 Kg ? Thanks for showing the elusive Zaklodzie main mass! All the best, Zelimir A 12:20 14/01/2009 +0100, Marcin Cimala - PolandMET a ?crit : >Hello List >I have upload new, actual and high quality photos of Zaklodzie. >Photos made on August 2008 > >Visit http://www.PolandMET.com > >-----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- >http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl >http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl >http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos >--------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From marcin at meteoryty.pl Wed Jan 14 08:14:47 2009 From: marcin at meteoryty.pl (Marcin Cimala - PolandMET) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 14:14:47 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fantastic World of Zaklodzie E-rich Ungr. Achondrite References: <20090108144017.KKRLL.404053.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> <8AFFB2D165CA4574B3B630C6BDFA5041@StarmanPC> <5.0.2.1.2.20090114132409.029370f8@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <002001c9764a$1305bb50$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> Excellent pics of the main mass Marcin! ======= Thank You :D I forgot about this photos for a "while". 2 questions: 1) is the tan-white area containing the metal islands of "eucritic" type ? ============ No This is just perfect example of weathering. Especially full slice but also main mass with his tiny white dot in center, showing very sharp zones of weathering approaching from outside to inside. So oryginaly Zaklodzie was perfect WHITE! Thats why this last full slice is soo importand becouse contain fresh, not weathered material. In the remaining main mass ~5kg there is propably no more of this material deep inside specimen. Another interesting feature in full slice is top right area above iron "core". There are several graphite globules in iron ! 2) From which source do you know that the TKW of Brahin and Chinga are respectively 823 Kg and about 200 Kg ? ============= Met Soc website say http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php Chinga TKW 209.4 kg Brahin TKW 823 kg -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From michael at spacerocksinc.com Wed Jan 14 10:18:19 2009 From: michael at spacerocksinc.com (Michael Johnson) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:18:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] RSPOD Message-ID: <28777353.1299121231946299448.JavaMail.root@mbs5.homesteadmail.com> RSPOD is back on line! Sorry for the brief interruption: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/ ________________ Michael Johnson http://www.spacerocksinc.com From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 14 10:25:37 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 07:25:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] PRE-TUCSON FREEBIES (AD) Message-ID: <882489.16104.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.I have some unclassified fragments that?I am giving away as a sort of pre-tucson gimmick.I have 10 to givaway.I will put 3 small fragments into small bags and give to the first?10 people who chime in.Please note,this is? U S A only due to postal costs.CHIME AWAY.It's going to be -15 below here tonight!BBBBBBUUUURRRRRRR!! ? Steve R.Arnold,Chicago! http://chicagometeorites.net/ From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Wed Jan 14 10:27:01 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:27:01 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zaklodzie and TKW's In-Reply-To: <002001c9764a$1305bb50$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> References: <20090108144017.KKRLL.404053.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> <8AFFB2D165CA4574B3B630C6BDFA5041@StarmanPC> <5.0.2.1.2.20090114132409.029370f8@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20090114161712.02a0db30@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Thanks Macrin, Very interesting regarding Zaklodzie! The next question that soon comes in mind: was this unweathered portion of the meteoirite the one that was analyzed for its type determination/classification ?? Thanks for the TKW's. My data come from "A to Z". The Met. Bull. data (I simply forgot looking) apparently should be the only reliable so far. Set aside for correction of the next edition (Mike ?), though "A to Z" often mentions higher weights (respectively 999+ kg (Brahin) and 300+ kg (Chinga). Has somebody (from Russia ?) more recent data on these two TKW's ? For example, I have heard from a "semi-reliable" (but local!) source that Gibeon's TKW is...over 120 tons! (real competitor for Campo!). Best, Zelimir A 14:14 14/01/2009 +0100, Marcin Cimala - PolandMET a ?crit : >Excellent pics of the main mass Marcin! > >======= >Thank You :D >I forgot about this photos for a "while". > >2 questions: > >1) is the tan-white area containing the metal islands of "eucritic" type ? > >============ >No >This is just perfect example of weathering. Especially full slice but also >main mass with his tiny white dot in center, showing very sharp zones of >weathering approaching from outside to inside. So oryginaly Zaklodzie was >perfect WHITE! Thats why this last full slice is soo importand becouse >contain fresh, not weathered material. In the remaining main mass ~5kg >there is propably no more of this material deep inside specimen. >Another interesting feature in full slice is top right area above iron >"core". There are several graphite globules in iron ! > >2) From which source do you know that the TKW of Brahin and Chinga are >respectively 823 Kg and about 200 Kg ? > >============= >Met Soc website say >http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php >Chinga TKW 209.4 kg >Brahin TKW 823 kg > > >-----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- >http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl >http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl >http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos >--------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From schoner at mybluelight.com Wed Jan 14 11:15:42 2009 From: schoner at mybluelight.com (Steve Schoner) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 16:15:42 GMT Subject: [meteorite-list] Six years since... Message-ID: <20090114.091542.16322.1@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Hello all, It has been six years since that near fatal episode of ADEM that nearly ended my life. And this month is always since a special time for me to reflect as to how far I have come since then. In this I review the kind messages that many of you sent to me when I was in the hospital. My wife and nurses read them to me when I came out of the coma. I was not expected to have survived or come out of a coma after they took a 1" chunk of my brain out. And when went to the hospital last week to remember it as it was six years ago, a nurse and therapist recognized me. She said, "You are a miracle, Steve. Of the thousands of persons that I have dealt with you stick in my mind. Your recovery was remarkable, and your story of it and what you saw in your coma even more so. And we were ready to pull the plug on you... Look at you now!" So where am I? My Clyde Tombaugh house, six years after is still in the process of restoration. And maybe this will be the last year to completion. My interest in meteorites is now directed toward making fine thin sections, as the hunting aspect of it is no longer a very viable option for me. To many dangers, and potential seizures are keep my searching feet in check. But I am here, and I must say to all that sent e-mails to me from all over the world, that your words and prayers were instrumental in me fighting to regain my senses after awakening from that coma. I am here. And I thank you all. Steve Schoner IMCA #4470. 01/06/03 ADEM survivor. ____________________________________________________________ Get free information on the latest in steel buildings. http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/PnY6rzG0eaUJvrx4WkcqkF9xyQ0DJ3PWGoywcOosvNUKLOWi4jN0I/ From pshugar at clearwire.net Wed Jan 14 11:36:15 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:36:15 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pallasite Vs Mesosiderite References: <000d01c9698a$d55831a0$d0e11960@laptop> <951138.31259.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002901c97666$3a1c8860$d0e11960@laptop> Thank you all who responded. To recap and sum this up, would it be fair to say that a mesosiderite is material from the crust-mantle-core that has been violently mixed mush like oil and water that is rapidly shaken and almost instantly frozen? And is a Pallasite is material that is from the core-mantle boundary that is mixed, but frozen a little bit slower such that the bubbles of mantle material don't quite complete the separation back to the differentiated state? I ask this because kids will want to know the difference between the two and I needed an answer that was not too complicated to give to them. Pete From pshugar at clearwire.net Wed Jan 14 11:50:11 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:50:11 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Next Question Message-ID: <002d01c97668$2bd908d0$d0e11960@laptop> I get the idea behind how the thumbprints are formed. But, what happens to the drops of molten iron? Do they just peal away and are vaporized or can they make it to the ground? Is this how the sphereoids are formed? Related question An oriented meteorite is one that was stable in flight. I see flow lines on them from the "nose cone". Do thumbprints form on them? I would tend to think that that answer is no, because the material flows to the rear and either curls, or spaulds off. Does the same thing happen to the drops of material as in the above? Last question, but still related. Do stoney meteorites get thumbprints as pronounced as does the irons? And if not, then why not? Pete From marcin at meteoryty.pl Wed Jan 14 12:05:03 2009 From: marcin at meteoryty.pl (Marcin Cimala - PolandMET) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:05:03 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zaklodzie and TKW's References: <20090108144017.KKRLL.404053.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> <8AFFB2D165CA4574B3B630C6BDFA5041@StarmanPC> <5.0.2.1.2.20090114132409.029370f8@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> <5.0.2.1.2.20090114161712.02a0db30@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <003e01c9766a$3ebd15c0$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> Thanks Macrin, Very interesting regarding Zaklodzie! The next question that soon comes in mind: was this unweathered portion of the meteoirite the one that was analyzed for its type determination/classification ?? ======== I dont know this, but If I could be scientist, I will like to use this fresh part for tests. Im sure that not for all tests this was importand how weathered is material. But I know that this white center was well tested. This large iron in center also was etched. Thanks for the TKW's. My data come from "A to Z". .... =========== You know, TKW is not most importand here and for sure impossible to get it even close to real weight. With large finds like this we know its hundreds of kilos, so better mark it as "TKW=large" :) -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com Wed Jan 14 12:29:03 2009 From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 09:29:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD; More NWAs 4sale Message-ID: <860625.95189.qm@web45408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi List, New Items just added for sale at my webpage, contact me for pics and prices. My best Aziz From epgrondine at yahoo.com Wed Jan 14 13:09:00 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:09:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Comets vs. asteroids, and AD Message-ID: <293395.7188.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Rob - (sorry about that. Yes, my short English name is ED, but let's stick with E.P., for "Extended Play" instead) You wrote: > You're not going to trip me up when the subject matter is solar > system dynamics, comets, asteroids, optics, physics, > orbital mechanics or general astronomy, so please don't even > try. Okay. > Yes, the SRBs were *responsible* for rupturing that tank, but that > wasn't a fault of the solid propellant. But when you present me with rationalizations like this one, please excuse my doubts. Several years ago the problem of dealing with the comet and asteroid impact hazard was looked at by a skilled team of engineers at NASA Langley. Their solution was CAPS - and they're the folks you need to discuss it with. If you have any detailed criticism of their conclusions, go for it. Their conclusion didn't surprise me much, as I had made a guess at it about 4 years earlier: http://www.geocities.com/epgrondine When I found out how bad the problem was, I simply threw at it the largest telescope I had seen, one proposed by Bush Snr's science advisor, and figured out the cheapest way to build it. > The point I'm trying to illustrate is that spotting a 50-meter extinct > comet at two or three lunar distances is not a problem for current > ground-based survey instruments (provided the solar elongation is greater > than, say, 70 degrees). Yes, a Moon-based instrument could detect objects > at lower solar elongations, but the poor phase angle unfortunately means > that you would still have very little warning time -- less than 24 hours. Given the staggering high velocities of these things, lunar distances don't mean much. The requirements are all threats, including Long Period Comets and Tunguska type impactors. The warning REQUIREMENTS are 45 minutes for a Tunguska type inbound, with no repeat pass-bys, so that people can take shelter; at least 3 days for 200-300 meter, to allow coastal evacuation; better would be weeks to months for nuclear mitigation; and simply as long as possible for Long Period Comets, so that SSHCL diversion can be used. > That's a cop-out -- I'm not asking the Chinese, I'm asking you. > How much money are you willing to throw at this perceived deficiency? How much do I want thrown at this problem? At least the same amount some folks want to spend flying a few men to Mars for a few days. Since we're returning to the Moon anyway, why not do something useful while we're there? I read today that the NASA astronomy budget was $1.2 billion last year. NEO detection got about $3.4 million. What's wrong with this picture? (And why didn't SWRI get money to study the Moon's impact record? And why is the LRO not equipped with some means of determining what created the different craters on the Moon? Where is our solar system accretion model with all crater data accounted for?) > If you were presenting a proposal to Congress or the American people, do > you really think your ancient Chinese examples would be that persuasive? No, but the death of 95% of the people living in North America due to impact in 10,900 BCE might do it. The problem was that I had a stroke along the way. And since this is the meteorite list, here's the AD: In the past two years we have had impact products evidenced at 10,900 BCE and 546 CE. Some of you may be realizing by now what an extraordinary bargain your copy of my book "Man and Impact in the Americas" is. Personally signed copies of the first edition of my book are still available to meteorite list members for $20 plus $5 priority mail shipping US, or plus $15 for overseas shipping (Fair warning - it helps if you are pretty fluent in English). What do you get for your money? Hundreds of pages of small type filled with typos, not enough illustrations, and a correction sheet pasted inside the front cover - but still, the finest single volume introduction to the first peoples in the Americas that you can read, in my opinion. (Second fair warning - I cover impacts in this book, and not meteorites, and most of the impacts were comet fragments. Sorry, but its not a hunting guide - but then if it were, I suppose that I'd be the one doing the hunting, even with my stroke, now wouldn't I?) PS - For those of you who already have copies, email me and I'll send you a doc file of the correction sheet, if you want one - I wouldn't paste it in your copy though, but simply insert it after the front cover - you'd reduce the first edition collector value of your copy. PS 2 - As Ares 1 is suffering combustion oscillations bad enough to black out the crew, a copy of "Man and Impact in the Americas" would also make a great going away present for Mike. Good Hunting, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas --- On Tue, 1/13/09, Matson, Robert D. wrote: > From: Matson, Robert D. > Subject: RE: Comets vs. asteroids > To: epgrondine at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 9:59 PM > Hi E.P., > > I hesitate to respond from work since the oddities of the > MetList prevent my posts from reaching it when I reply from > my work e-mail address (perhaps to the relief of many > members). > Nevertheless, I'll press on and forward the message > from my > home account when I get there (though the subject matter is > veering off-topic, and few people care about this subject). > > > Hi Bob - > > [FYI, "Bob" is not my name. I realize that > it's a popular > short version of "Robert", but I have never > signed an email > by anything other than Rob.] > > > There were so many falacies in your post that with my > stroke > > damage I let some major howlers get through in my > reply. > > E.P. (Ed?) -- I don't post falacies, I post facts. On > those > occasions when I post opinions, I label them as such. > You're > not going to trip me up when the subject matter is solar > system dynamics, comets, asteroids, optics, physics, > orbital > mechanics or general astronomy, so please don't even > try. > > > Actually, turbine, combustion chamber and propellant > line > > failures give some warning, and the (s)hutdown/abort > systems > > can be brought into play. Not so with solids, which > have > > sudden catastrophic failure modes ... > > I don't think I need to remind you that it wasn't > the Shuttle's > SRBs that exploded -- it was the External Tank. Yes, the > SRBs > were *responsible* for rupturing that tank, but that > wasn't a > fault of the solid propellant. If the Shuttle had been 100% > solids it wouldn't have exploded. The crew would still > have > been lost (since there was no escape option in 1986), but > *had* > there been a rapid egress system, their chances of survival > certainly would have been better if they hadn't been > riding > a liquid bomb. > > > Why Mike resized the CEV so that it exceeded EELV > capablities > > and required a large solid launcher is a great > question. Given > > your work with Griffin in SDIO, I would ask about the > need for > > large solid launchers for defense purposes, but then > this is a > > public forum. I assume Garver, Ladwig, and Obama > already know, > > they'll share want they want to with us sometime > next week... > > Completely off-topic and of no interest to me. > > >> Well, where do you draw the line on the expense of > your > >> "insurance policy" > > > Ask the Chinese. Their national emblem is a dragon > commemorating > > a comet; their first emperor was killed in an impact > event; they > > lost nearly all their commercial shipping fleet to > impact mega- > > tsunami around 1431 CE, which left them open to > foreign attack > > and centuries of suffering. > > That's a cop-out -- I'm not asking the Chinese, > I'm asking you. > How much money are you willing to throw at this perceived > deficiency? If you were presenting a proposal to Congress > or > the American people, do you really think your ancient > Chinese > examples would be that persuasive? > > > I haven't broken CAPS out into CZ5 launches yet, > to come up with > > remin costs. Whatever the cost, the value returned by > CAPS far > > exceeds the value of flying a few men to Mars for a > few days. > > To average citizens in 2009 trying to stay in their homes > and > feed their families, I'd say there was little value in > either > activity. The only way you'll get their attention is > through > extortion: perhaps threatening to deprive them of American > Idol or The Bachelor. --Rob From drtanuki at yahoo.com Wed Jan 14 13:22:37 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:22:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Fireball detector systems-DIY Message-ID: <453574.53349.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List, I would like to start a discussion on meteor/bolide fireball detectors for amateurs, on or off-list. Are there any websites or has anyone ever made their own detector system that speak to this question? Costs, cameras, mirrors, power supplies, and recording equipment are all questions to construct a complete system. There are several persons on this list very qualified to discuss this topic... Marco, Chris, Mike, Robert, others???? Perhaps there are other list members that would like to construct their own if there is some advice? Thank you in advance. Best Always, Dirk Ross...Tokyo http://www.meteoritesjapan.com http://www.insekijapan.com Only a few of the many networks from a very quick websearch: Canada West Coast Sandia Bolide Detection Network http://victoria.rasc.ca/articles/2003/sandia_bolide.htm NMSU Fireball Network http://www.nmsu.edu/~ucomm/Releases/2000/november2000/skycam.html AMS Fireball Monitoring Program http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireballs.html Georgia Fireball Network http://www.cometary.net/georgia_fireball_network_fireball.htm Spanish Meteor and Fireball Network http://www.spmn.uji.es/ENG/presentation.html? ? ? ? ? ? From mlblood at cox.net Wed Jan 14 13:29:40 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael L Blood) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:29:40 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Info In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20090114132409.029370f8@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: Hi All, People have contacted me off list to inform me I forgot to Include my Auction on-line catalog link - sorry: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson09.html You can get to the "PRINT" edition from there.... Best wishes, Michael From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jan 14 14:16:33 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 12:16:33 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Auctions Ending Today! Super Deals Abound & Store Wide Sale, Plus New Arizona Meteorite! Last Day Of SALE! References: <26AA31B0-6A7C-42A5-9966-89770D7CF6C3@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <90B34B03-253F-41AA-881D-82A4CCEACD86@gilanet.com> * Trying to raise a little extra cash for the Tucson Show-so if there is something you have been looking at in my shop, but the price is too high, give me a fair offer, the worst I can do is say no. No worries either way...you never know until you try...some items I will budge on, others I will not (I like them too much)! > > Hello, > > Once again... Highlights added... great offerings ... , plus new > Arizona Meteorite-Wilbur Wash. Last day of Sale! > > > > http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history > > > Highlights: > > RARE-A SLICE Of CARANCAS, Peru, H4-5, 1.09g, A SLICE OF CARANCAS! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200296534557 > > Super Rare L'AIGLE, L6, Fall From France 1803 !!!! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200296534580 > > Superb CAMEL DONGA, Eucrite, Australia, 5.14g, A beautiful Slice! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200296534595 > > Rare YORKTOWN,Texas, H5 Chondrite, LTKW,0.08g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295915305 > > Seldom Available BUENAVENTURA, Mexico, IIIAB, Only Piece I have. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295914181 > > Super Rare Fall BATH FURNACE, Kentucky, 1.84g, MY LAST SPECIMEN! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295895083 > > Famous WESTON, CT., Fall of 1807, H4, 0.15g, Only A Few Left! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295901181 > > Very Rare HARLETON (a), L6 Fall From Texas!, ONLY SPECIMEN I HAVE! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295906437 > > (NEW) An Amazing LL5, NWA 2380, 55.16 gram !! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295901178 > > Rare GLORIETA MOUNTAIN, Top Slice, 8.87g, Really pretty! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295901200 > > Rare, Ureilite From Africa, NWA 2634, 1.50g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295893888 > > Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 52.65 gram > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295893871 > > (New) NWA 4734, Lunar Specimen Display! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295893924 > > A very Rare EL3 From Africa, NWA 2965, 118g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295898054 > > Rare NWA 2696, Howardite From Africa, 3.81g, nice slice! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908587 > > (NEW), NWA 4971, H5, Complete Slice, 256g, BIG SLICE! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295901203 > > Pallasite From Australia-HUCKITTA, 15.27 gram, NICE, NICE, NICE! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908607 > > Super Fine ESQUEL, Pallasite Slice, 3.53g, One of my last! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295913498 > > BRENHAM, Siderite From Kansas, 109.54 gram, BIG PRETTY SLICE! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295909659 > > Seldom Available BRISCOE, Texas, L5, 2.20g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295898051 > > CANYON DIABLO Individual, 244 gram, Nice Individual! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295893963 > > (NEW) NWA 4293, H6, 100 gram Lot #4, Going Cheap! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295905767 > > Nice H3 From Namibia, KORRA KORRABES, 33.44 g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908599 > > An Early # NWA 103, L6 From Africa, 23.91g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908592 > > (NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 162 Gram, YOU MUST TAKE A LOOK > AT THIS ONE! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295910804 > > (New) Martian Shergottite, NWA 4925, "Mars" > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908621 > > Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 12.56 gram, NICE SLICE! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908611 > > Rare NWA 2932, Mesosiderite, Nice! 4.98 gram > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295911929 > > Beautiful L3, SAHARA 02500, 74.74 gram, Real Pretty! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295910599 > > Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 1.74g, One of My Last! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295910320 > > (New) NWA 4881, Lunar Feldspathic Specimen > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908616 > > Seldom Available TULIA (b), Texas, L6, 0.83 g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908596 > > Witnessed Fall From China, JILIN, H5, 1.37g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295908585 > > BRENHAM, Siderite From Kansas, 11.18 gram, nice one! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295901195 > > Rare Type, H3.5, WELLMAN (f), Texas, 1.08g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295901192 > > NEW), LA LUZ, New Mexico, H4, LTKW, 4.04g, This one is cool! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295898061 > > (New) NWA 4952, L/LL4-5, Brecciated, 2.34g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295901184 > > Seldom Available GRUVER, Texas, H4, 6.48g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295898056 > > RARE, SILVERTON, Texas, H4, LTKW, 0.75 gram > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200295893946 > > > > Best Wishes and Thanks > > Michael Cottingham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From daistiho at hotmail.com Wed Jan 14 14:18:52 2009 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 19:18:52 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zaklodzie and TKW's In-Reply-To: <003e01c9766a$3ebd15c0$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> References: <20090108144017.KKRLL.404053.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> <8AFFB2D165CA4574B3B630C6BDFA5041@StarmanPC> <5.0.2.1.2.20090114132409.029370f8@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> <5.0.2.1.2.20090114161712.02a0db30@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> <003e01c9766a$3ebd15c0$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> Message-ID: That unweathered inner part of Zaklodzie had very distinct edges; I was also surprised to see the (relatively) huge metal blebs in the slices. I would think that there would be an area of most weathering closest to the exterior, and a more graduated progression as the elements slowly seeped into the interior, rather than a discrete 'core', which looked very eucrite-ish. Is there any chance that this was an anomalous piece of Zaklodzie with an inclusion? What created such a clear boundary? Tracy Latimer ---------------------------------------- > From: marcin at meteoryty.pl > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:05:03 +0100 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Zaklodzie and TKW's > > Thanks Macrin, > > Very interesting regarding Zaklodzie! > The next question that soon comes in mind: was this unweathered portion of > the meteoirite the one that was analyzed for its type > determination/classification ?? > > ======== > I dont know this, but If I could be scientist, I will like to use this fresh > part for tests. Im sure that not for all tests this was importand how > weathered is material. But I know that this white center was well tested. > This large iron in center also was etched. > > > Thanks for the TKW's. > My data come from "A to Z". > .... > > =========== > You know, TKW is not most importand here and for sure impossible to get it > even close to real weight. With large finds like this we know its hundreds > of kilos, so better mark it as "TKW=large" :) > > -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- > http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl > http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl > http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos > --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?: Chat. Store. Share. Do more with mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009 From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au Wed Jan 14 15:26:02 2009 From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 06:26:02 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] QMIG hunting for articles and also for Maroo and Whitula Creek Message-ID: <996E6400BAFC47AEBED01DC064C787CB@your0a700f0aaf> Listoids QMIG update soon... I'm hunting for scientific publications/articles on Queensland meteorites not listed on the articles page of my website whoah - forgot - some of the articles on my website are now listed on Google Scholar !!! Standby for a flood of articles on Arrabury Hopefully the volunteers at one of the southern museums are being busy on my behalf copying other articles... Most of the incoming articles will have not been seen before by Listoids... However - if youse can email any others to me - I'll webpublish these if I can get permission from the publishers And - I'm still praying to my God that someone can contact me about specimens of Maroo and Whitula Creek I'm in the throes of a museum and a university trade for some of the few that I am missing but these are always a delikate and komplex matter Cheers From marcin at meteoryty.pl Wed Jan 14 16:46:39 2009 From: marcin at meteoryty.pl (Marcin Cimala - PolandMET) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:46:39 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zaklodzie and TKW's References: <20090108144017.KKRLL.404053.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com><8AFFB2D165CA4574B3B630C6BDFA5041@StarmanPC><5.0.2.1.2.20090114132409.029370f8@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr><5.0.2.1.2.20090114161712.02a0db30@pop.univ-mulhouse.fr> <003e01c9766a$3ebd15c0$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> Message-ID: <002201c97691$95580940$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> That unweathered inner part of Zaklodzie had very distinct edges; I was also surprised to see the (relatively) huge metal blebs in the slices. I would think that there would be an area of most weathering closest to the exterior, and a more graduated progression as the elements slowly seeped into the interior, rather than a discrete 'core', which looked very eucrite-ish. Is there any chance that this was an anomalous piece of Zaklodzie with an inclusion? What created such a clear boundary? Tracy Latimer Hi I think that the most competent answer You will find here. Przylibski T. A. et al. The Zaklodzie enstatite meteorite: Mineralogy, petrology, origin and classification, /Meteoritics and Planetary Science /40, Nr 9, A185-A200 (2005). -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From entropydave at ntlworld.com Wed Jan 14 17:02:39 2009 From: entropydave at ntlworld.com (Dave Harris) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:02:39 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: AD - Allende slab -36g slab! Message-ID: Hi folks, ...last few hours for this paving stone on an Allende! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270328529863 thanks for your continued patience! dave IMCA #0092 Sec.BIMS. www.bimsociety.org From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Wed Jan 14 17:26:10 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 14 Jan 2009 22:26:10 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Zaklodzie Message-ID: Hello Tracy, Marcin, and List, Marcin wrote: "I think that the most competent answer You will find here." PRZYLIBISKI T.A. et al. (2005) The Zaklodzie enstatite meteorite: Mineralogy, petrology, origin and classification (MAPS 40-9, pp. A185-A200, excerpt from p. A186): The Zaklodzie meteorite has a fusion crust 0.1-1.0 mm thick (average 0.3 mm); this crust is strongly weathered and contains iron oxides and hydroxides, evidence of prolonged terrestrial weathering. With the naked eye, three concentric zones varying in color can be distinguished in the stone. The outer zone A is the darkest, being dark grey with a rusty tint; the intermediate zone B is rusty-grey in color and the inner zone C is pale grey, locally nearly white. In the inner zone, opaque minerals make up ca. 10-15 vol% and are irregularly distributed. In the other two zones, opaques reach about 20 vol%. Within the relatively homogeneous texture of the meteorite, oval aggregates are locally present. They consist of several to tens of enstatite crystals and minor other minerals including metal and troilite. These forms were interpreted by some authors (Stepniewski et al. 2000; Manecki and Lodzinski 2001) as "relics of chondrules." About 4 inches of snow within two hours here! Best, Bernd From mexicodoug at aim.com Wed Jan 14 18:10:04 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 18:10:04 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Asteroid 136849 approaching (over 1 km in diameter) Message-ID: <8CB44B45EAE7552-134-EA0@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> Dear Listees, Thought I'd pass along to anyone interested in seeing a typical Hammer of God asteroid (no, it is not called Kali, but it really does have a devil of an orbital period: 666 days), in the form of Chinese discovered potentially threatening asteroid (136849) 1998 CS1 (That's CS1, not CSI :)). This asteroid is likely well over 1 kilometer in diameter and will be paying us a quite "close" visit on January 17 at about 5:00PM London time, when it will be about 4.35 million kilometers away (2.7 million miles) from Earth. That's about 11 Lunar Distances (11 times the distance from the Earth to the Moon). For comparison, 4179 Toutatis, which made for a great deal of drama on 29 Sep 2004, is about twice the diameter of 136849 1998 CS1 and passed by Earth at 4 LD's. It was supposedly 10th magnitude, 5 times brighter, but was not as optimally placed to see for many of us. Due to 136849's phase, it will actually be brightest tomorrow night (sometime between 10 PM and 12:30 AM) or whenever is just before Moonrise if you are in the northern hemisphere north of at least 15 degrees latitude or so. If you are South of that you need to put up with the fairly bright Moon but can try to look at it starting a couple of hours after Moonrise 'til dawn. I think I'll give it a shot if conditions are ok, since it would be nice to see something this big, this close - about the same level of difficulty as Toutatis was. For me timing critical as it will barely rise 15 degrees above the horizon when the Gibbous Moonriserises a little before midnight local time. But if you are a Hamburger (Germany) or Juneauean (Alaska), you can observe for at least two hours before Moonrise preferably in thermal knickers... The predicted visual magnitude will be 12.25, well within the range of amateur telescopes. It will be moving against the starry background at about 40 arcseconds per minute which is a third more that the diameter of Jupiter, for comparison, and a very comfortable speed for observation. It's roughly between the Big Dipper of Ursa Major (the Plough) and Leo. For statical thoughts, anything coming within 11.31 LD's of Earth is ROUGHLY about one half-millionth a 'chance' to hit Earth by just looking at cross sectional area, and Earth occupies about one three hundred and twenty millionth of the volume of the sphere centered on Earth with a radius of 11.31 LD. And to think a LD (Lunar Distance) makes it seem so familiar and close! In 2080, it will pass by at 9.4 LD's if all goes according to plan...after a few close ones with Venus, too... BTW today, the STARDUST spacecraft just passed Earth a couple of hours ago at 0.023 LD's, I think! Here's the orbit of 136849: http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=136849;orb=1 Here?re the discoverers: http://ww w.bao.ac.cn/bao/station/xl/index-e.html Best wishes and Great Health, Doug From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jan 14 22:37:41 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 22:37:41 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rock and roll on Mars In-Reply-To: <8CB44B45EAE7552-134-EA0@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB44B45EAE7552-134-EA0@webmail-me16.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479873,00.html Strange Rock Formations on Mars Explained Wednesday, January 14, 2009 Rocks on Mars are in some areas scattered in a strangely uniform fashion, puzzling scientists for years. Now they've figured it out. Researchers had thought the rocks were picked up and carried downwind by extreme high-speed winds thought to occur on Mars in the past. Although Mars is a windy planet, its atmosphere is very thin, so it would be difficult for the wind to carry the small rocks, which range in size from a quarter to a softball, said Jon Pelletier, a geoscientist at the University of Arizona in Tucson. Pelletier and his colleagues now think the rocks are constantly on the move, rolling into the wind, not away from it, and creating a natural feedback system that results in their tidy arrangement. Rock-n-roll Here's what they think happens: Wind removes loose sand in front of the rocks, creating pits there and depositing that sand behind the rocks, creating mounds. The rocks then roll forward into the pits, moving into the wind. As long as the wind continues to blow, the process is repeated and the rocks move forward. The rocks protect the tiny sand mounds from wind erosion. Those piles of sand, in turn, keep the rocks from being pushed downwind and from bunching up with one another. "You get this happening five, 10, 20 times then you start to really move these things around," Pelletier said. "They can move many times their diameter." The process is nearly the same with a cluster of rocks. However, with a cluster of rocks, those in the front of the group shield their counterparts in the middle or on the edges from the wind, Pelletier said. Because the middle and outer rocks are not directly hit by the wind, the wind creates pits to the sides of those rocks. And so, instead of rolling forward, the rocks roll to the side, not directly into the wind, and the cluster begins to spread out. The research is published in the January issue of the journal Geology. Lots of evidence Several pieces of evidence have come together to support this idea of how rocks are organized along some areas of the Martian surface. For instance, when study team member Andrew Leier of the University of Calgary in Canada was a graduate student at UA, he told Pelletier about an experiment on the upwind migration of rocks that his thesis advisor James Steidtmann of the University of Wyoming had conducted. Steidtmann used a wind tunnel to see how pebbles on sand moved in the wind, revealing the rocks moved upwind and that over time, a regular pattern emerged. Some time later, while attending a lecture that showed pictures of uniformly organized rocks on Mars, Pelletier recalled his conversations with Leier, and it all came together. Meanwhile, Leier had noticed a similar phenomenon when observing sand dunes in Wyoming. Basically, loose pebbles and rocks there seemed to spread away from each other in an almost organized fashion ? similar to what is seen on the sandy surface of Mars. In the recent study, Pelletier tested out the idea with three computer models, including models of air flow, sand erosion and deposition, and rock movement. He compared the model results with the distances between each rock and its nearest neighbor in Mars images taken by the Mars Exploration Rover, Spirit. The patterns of the Martian rocks matched what the model predicted. Pelletier plans to apply the same numerical models to larger features on Mars such as sand dunes and wind-sculpted valleys and ridges called "yardangs." From michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com Thu Jan 15 00:12:19 2009 From: michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com (Michael Gilmer) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 21:12:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Collections in Tampa Florida? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <497607.14319.qm@web58402.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi folks! Does anyone know if there is a sizeable institutional or university collection of meteorites in Tampa Florida? Tampa has several universities, including USF and UT. USF has a large geology department, and a space sciences department, but I couldn't find any reference to a meteorite collection on the website or through Google. I am moving to Tampa in about a month and I want to network with any local collectors or collections. Thanks in advance and clear skies! MikeG PS - I am still looking for a well-worn, abused, and discounted copy of Catalogue of Meteorites by Grady. Contact me offlist if you have one for sale. ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale .......................................................... From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Thu Jan 15 01:16:05 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:16:05 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Fireball detector systems-DIY In-Reply-To: <453574.53349.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <453574.53349.qm@web53211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, Dirk and all, There is another List I subscribe to (suggested by a fellow meteorite-head quite a while ago, so I don't recall whom): http://lists.meteorobs.org/mailman/listinfo/meteorobs http://lists.meteorobs.org/mailman/listinfo/meteorobs similar in structure as this one, that actually had posts recently with PDF files (no longer than two months ago) for making your own inexpensive detector. If you have trouble finding the post in the archives, I'll check my computer to see if I downloaded the file back then. Another good site that mails meteor shower alerts: http://www.tvcomm.co.uk/radio/alert_mailer.html http://www.tvcomm.co.uk/radio/alert_mailer.html Cheers, Pete ---------------------------------------- > Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 10:22:37 -0800 > From: drtanuki at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Fireball detector systems-DIY > > Dear List, > I would like to start a discussion on meteor/bolide fireball detectors for amateurs, on or off-list. Are there any websites or has anyone ever made their own detector system that speak to this question? > Costs, cameras, mirrors, power supplies, and recording equipment are all questions to construct a complete system. > There are several persons on this list very qualified to discuss this topic... Marco, Chris, Mike, Robert, others???? > Perhaps there are other list members that would like to construct their own if there is some advice? > > Thank you in advance. > Best Always, Dirk Ross...Tokyo > > http://www.meteoritesjapan.com > http://www.insekijapan.com > > > Only a few of the many networks from a very quick websearch: > > Canada West Coast Sandia Bolide Detection Network > http://victoria.rasc.ca/articles/2003/sandia_bolide.htm > > NMSU Fireball Network > http://www.nmsu.edu/~ucomm/Releases/2000/november2000/skycam.html > > AMS Fireball Monitoring Program > http://www.amsmeteors.org/fireballs.html > > Georgia Fireball Network > http://www.cometary.net/georgia_fireball_network_fireball.htm > > Spanish Meteor and Fireball Network > http://www.spmn.uji.es/ENG/presentation.html > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ From info at meteorites.com.au Thu Jan 15 03:22:38 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:22:38 +1100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Next Question In-Reply-To: <002d01c97668$2bd908d0$d0e11960@laptop> References: <002d01c97668$2bd908d0$d0e11960@laptop> Message-ID: <50F475705FA149188412D4FCAA262912@JeffPC> Hi Pete, Good questions. You'll often find many small 'droplets' or small individuals from some of the larger iron falls. I guess they're a little more prevalent with recent falls because they are smaller and will oxidise away faster relative to larger pieces. A few that come to mind are Sikhote and Taza. And a great example of it is the Glorieta Mountain pallasite. There are lots of little pieces that have presumably molten and 'flecked off' the larger mass some of which even have some olivine attached or enclosed. And yes... you can find regmaglypts on oriented "nose cones". They're probably not as common as other individuals but they do occur. One thing to note though is that they are often elongated parallel to the flight path. An immediate example that comes to mind that displays this is the famous "Venus Stone": http://www.meteoriteman.com/graphics/venus.jpg I also have a smaller 277g iron heat shield which has very shallow depressions that I guess you would call regmaglypts. I would guess that the larger the nose cone specimen the more chance you may have of getting regmaglypts. Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Shugar" To: Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 3:50 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Next Question >I get the idea behind how the thumbprints are formed. > > But, what happens to the drops of molten iron? > Do they just peal away and are vaporized or can > they make it to the ground? Is this how the sphereoids > are formed? > > Related question > An oriented meteorite is one that was stable in flight. > I see flow lines on them from the "nose cone". > Do thumbprints form on them? I would tend to think that > that answer is no, because the material flows to the rear > and either curls, or spaulds off. > Does the same thing happen to the drops of material as > in the above? > > Last question, but still related. > Do stoney meteorites get thumbprints as pronounced as > does the irons? And if not, then why not? > Pete > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From zneutronz at aol.com Thu Jan 15 05:50:54 2009 From: zneutronz at aol.com (zneutronz at aol.com) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 05:50:54 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite offer Message-ID: <8CB45164648AFE1-544-117B@WEBMAIL-DC07.sysops.aol.com> hola list ! still avaiable : NWA4925, SNC Shergottite, Part Slice, 1.956g NWA4483, Lunar , granulitic, End cut, 5.612g NWA4483, Lunar , granulitic, Part Slice, 2.559g Dhofar 310, LUN-A, 0.352g make me a fair offer, i will sell for a good price. thanks and regards, oliver ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Thu Jan 15 06:53:04 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 03:53:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : sales of 3 planetary meteorite main mass, Message-ID: <923564.49627.qm@web62003.mail.re1.yahoo.com> good morning, well here?3 ?beauty's out of my safe for sale.the sale of the year. the first is and incredible 205 gr martian likely paired to nwa 2975 NWA 2975 NWA 2986?NWA 2987?NWA 4766?NWA 4783?NWA 4857?NWA 4864NWA 4878NWA 4880. ?this a complete meteorite i think one of the biggest found in this pairing it was in my safe for two year , and going out; the segond is a nice 160 gr pairing of nwa 2995?????????????NWA 2996 NWA 3190 NWA 4503 NWA 5151 NWA 5152. has crust and very nice looking cut face ,has been checked by a scientist and confirmed the pairing. http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/sets/72157603180075946/ ?http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/2604746638/in/set-72157603180075946/ the third ; is a little gem 62 gr nwa4734 i own the main mass , it has a nice bubble of orientation, it has been in my safe also for more than? two year, i enjoy them each day, it was called monzodiorite and tha? monzogabro, there was a big debate about this launch-pairing lunar with antarctic lunar. http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/sets/72157602531819147/ http://www.meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/nwa4734.htm please contact for more info this the chance one of this rare beauty, give me call to 21261454772???? /??? ?21235576144 ?or email to aziz_habbi at hotmail.com azizhabibi at yahoo.com all the best aziz habibi ? ? habibi aziz www.palmserfoud.com www.palmotel.com box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Thu Jan 15 07:34:32 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:34:32 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rock and roll on Mars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090115123432.A0NFV.380496.root@web06-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi Darren/All, Over the years I have seen many photographs of desert meteorite finds where the meteorite looked almost as if it had hit and fractured on impact and only spreading around a short way....but this mechanism would explain that much better with the meteorite weathering and fracturing over time and not on impact and then slowly spreading out over time into an even pattern. Graham Ensor, UK. ---- Darren Garrison wrote: > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479873,00.html > > Strange Rock Formations on Mars Explained > > Wednesday, January 14, 2009 > > Rocks on Mars are in some areas scattered in a strangely uniform fashion, > puzzling scientists for years. Now they've figured it out. > > Researchers had thought the rocks were picked up and carried downwind by extreme > high-speed winds thought to occur on Mars in the past. > > Although Mars is a windy planet, its atmosphere is very thin, so it would be > difficult for the wind to carry the small rocks, which range in size from a > quarter to a softball, said Jon Pelletier, a geoscientist at the University of > Arizona in Tucson. > > Pelletier and his colleagues now think the rocks are constantly on the move, > rolling into the wind, not away from it, and creating a natural feedback system > that results in their tidy arrangement. > > Rock-n-roll > > Here's what they think happens: Wind removes loose sand in front of the rocks, > creating pits there and depositing that sand behind the rocks, creating mounds. > The rocks then roll forward into the pits, moving into the wind. As long as the > wind continues to blow, the process is repeated and the rocks move forward. > > The rocks protect the tiny sand mounds from wind erosion. Those piles of sand, > in turn, keep the rocks from being pushed downwind and from bunching up with one > another. > > "You get this happening five, 10, 20 times then you start to really move these > things around," Pelletier said. "They can move many times their diameter." > > The process is nearly the same with a cluster of rocks. However, with a cluster > of rocks, those in the front of the group shield their counterparts in the > middle or on the edges from the wind, Pelletier said. > > Because the middle and outer rocks are not directly hit by the wind, the wind > creates pits to the sides of those rocks. And so, instead of rolling forward, > the rocks roll to the side, not directly into the wind, and the cluster begins > to spread out. > > The research is published in the January issue of the journal Geology. > > Lots of evidence > > Several pieces of evidence have come together to support this idea of how rocks > are organized along some areas of the Martian surface. > > For instance, when study team member Andrew Leier of the University of Calgary > in Canada was a graduate student at UA, he told Pelletier about an experiment on > the upwind migration of rocks that his thesis advisor James Steidtmann of the > University of Wyoming had conducted. > > Steidtmann used a wind tunnel to see how pebbles on sand moved in the wind, > revealing the rocks moved upwind and that over time, a regular pattern emerged. > > Some time later, while attending a lecture that showed pictures of uniformly > organized rocks on Mars, Pelletier recalled his conversations with Leier, and it > all came together. > > Meanwhile, Leier had noticed a similar phenomenon when observing sand dunes in > Wyoming. Basically, loose pebbles and rocks there seemed to spread away from > each other in an almost organized fashion ? similar to what is seen on the sandy > surface of Mars. > > In the recent study, Pelletier tested out the idea with three computer models, > including models of air flow, sand erosion and deposition, and rock movement. > > He compared the model results with the distances between each rock and its > nearest neighbor in Mars images taken by the Mars Exploration Rover, Spirit. The > patterns of the Martian rocks matched what the model predicted. > > Pelletier plans to apply the same numerical models to larger features on Mars > such as sand dunes and wind-sculpted valleys and ridges called "yardangs." > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteshow at free.fr Thu Jan 15 09:51:14 2009 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:51:14 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday and Fresh Chondrite Message-ID: <405F9B07A1C74ED18C404D6206551635@john> Dear All, This saturday we have two auctions ending on saturday that you canb find at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmeteoriteshow 1- EL AROUSS L-IMB (unclas.) - 68.8g indiv.: Cut individual weighing 68.8g, dimensions 42x29x22mm, with vesiculated cavities and a nice chondrule on the cut section. http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-EL-AROUSS-L-IMB-unclas-68-8g-indiv_W0QQitemZ330299208912QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330299208912&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 2- SAH 02500 L3 - 96.7g partslice: Partslice weighing 96.7g, dimensions 87x46x11mm, with dark and fair grey inclusions, big chondrules... a wide partslice, very typical of SAHARA 02500. http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-SAH-02500-L3-96-7g-partslice_W0QQitemZ330299208960QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item330299208960&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318 Thanks for watching and good luck to bidders! Both auctions are still very close to the starting price of $1. FRESH CHONDRITE: Last summer i offered on my website some nice individuals of a very fresh chondrite that i had from Morocco, and all of them got sold very quickly (see pictures at http://meteoriteshow.free.fr/meteoriteshow%20fra/pages%20navigation/pieces_en_vente_FB-55-08.htm). Classification is still pending but i already got the information that whet we first thought to be a possible H3 is actually a very fresh H4. More details should come soon i hope with NWA number. But for those of you who wanted to get some a nd could not, i already have two fragments of the same chondrite weighing respectively 150g and 270g and i am expecting very soon an individual weignhing a bit more than 4kg that was broken in two pieces either at lending or in the low atmosphere as there is no secondary fusion crust. I will update my website in the two coming weeks but should any of you be interested please contact me by email and i will send you some pictures. Kind regards, Frederic Beroud http://www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA #2491 From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jan 15 10:35:30 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:35:30 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? In-Reply-To: <923564.49627.qm@web62003.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <923564.49627.qm@web62003.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24917099-401,00.html Methane discovery suggests presence of life on Mars, say Nasa scientists NASA scientists are expected to announce they may have proof there is life on Mars. The scientists suspect alien microbes are alive and kicking just below the soil of the big planet, after large quantities of what is believed to be the organisms? waste products were detected. The organisms ? called methanogens ? are suspected to have been living in water beneath underground ice, where they are disgorging tonnes and tonnes of methane. On Earth, methane is produced in massive quantities by animals such as cows, sheep and goats. Giant telescopes from Earth and NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have spotted a haze of the gas surrounding Mars, and according to some scientists this can only point to the presence of life on Mars. ?Methane is a product of biology,? UK Mars expert Professor Colin Pillinger told UK tabloid The Sun last night. ?For methane to be in Mars? atmosphere, there has to be a replenishable source. ?The most obvious source of methane is organisms, so if you find methane in an atmosphere, you can suspect there is life. ?It?s not proof, but it makes it worth a much closer look.? ?What could be more profound than to know it?s not just us out there? "We?ve really only scratched the surface ? it?s an absolute certainty that there is life out there and we are not alone. ?If there is life on Mars then the logical conclusion is that there must be life elsewhere too." Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules this possibility out. Methane plumes are very short-lived, it is chemically broken down by sunlight within a year. Something is replacing the methane, and quickly. The fascination with the idea that Mars harbours life has pervaded popular culture for over a century. The public obsession with Martians began way back in 1877 when astronomer Giovanni Sciaparelli reported observations of large canali ? meaning "channels" ? on Mars, which he speculated must have been dug by an intelligent race, although this proved mistaken. H.G. Wells classic 1898 novel of a Martian invasion of Earth War of the Worlds has been turned into two big budget Hollywood films and when staged as 1938 radio play by Orson Wells caused reportedly caused panic when some of the audience mistook it for a real newscast. Director Tim Burton reimagined the scenario with playfully malignant extraterrestrials in his blackly comic 1996 film Mars Attacks. From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Thu Jan 15 11:12:19 2009 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:12:19 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? In-Reply-To: References: <923564.49627.qm@web62003.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C494FA9E1@gamma.ssl.atw> >Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also >produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules >this possibility out. So by that somewhat 'skewed logic' (imho) there's also life on Jupiter, the moon, Titan, at least one exoplanet and Venus, oh or could it perchance be that it is volcanic/geologic in origin, and we just haven't located the source yet - but that doesn't grab the head lines I guess!! Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: 15 January 2009 15:36 To: meteorite list Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24917099-401,00.html Methane discovery suggests presence of life on Mars, say Nasa scientists NASA scientists are expected to announce they may have proof there is life on Mars. The scientists suspect alien microbes are alive and kicking just below the soil of the big planet, after large quantities of what is believed to be the organisms' waste products were detected. The organisms - called methanogens - are suspected to have been living in water beneath underground ice, where they are disgorging tonnes and tonnes of methane. On Earth, methane is produced in massive quantities by animals such as cows, sheep and goats. Giant telescopes from Earth and NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have spotted a haze of the gas surrounding Mars, and according to some scientists this can only point to the presence of life on Mars. "Methane is a product of biology," UK Mars expert Professor Colin Pillinger told UK tabloid The Sun last night. "For methane to be in Mars' atmosphere, there has to be a replenishable source. "The most obvious source of methane is organisms, so if you find methane in an atmosphere, you can suspect there is life. "It's not proof, but it makes it worth a much closer look." "What could be more profound than to know it's not just us out there? "We've really only scratched the surface - it's an absolute certainty that there is life out there and we are not alone. "If there is life on Mars then the logical conclusion is that there must be life elsewhere too." Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules this possibility out. Methane plumes are very short-lived, it is chemically broken down by sunlight within a year. Something is replacing the methane, and quickly. The fascination with the idea that Mars harbours life has pervaded popular culture for over a century. The public obsession with Martians began way back in 1877 when astronomer Giovanni Sciaparelli reported observations of large canali - meaning "channels" - on Mars, which he speculated must have been dug by an intelligent race, although this proved mistaken. H.G. Wells classic 1898 novel of a Martian invasion of Earth War of the Worlds has been turned into two big budget Hollywood films and when staged as 1938 radio play by Orson Wells caused reportedly caused panic when some of the audience mistook it for a real newscast. Director Tim Burton reimagined the scenario with playfully malignant extraterrestrials in his blackly comic 1996 film Mars Attacks. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From mexicodoug at aim.com Thu Jan 15 12:36:19 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:36:19 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? In-Reply-To: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C494FA9E1@gamma.ssl.atw> References: <923564.49627.qm@web62003.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C494FA9E1@gamma.ssl.atw> Message-ID: <8CB454EE8338BEA-BA4-DC1@webmail-db19.sysops.aol.com> Hi Mark and Darren, Oh just another case of what happens when the scientific peer-review process is omitted and the overall press tries to pick it up without quoting their sources very noticeably or being purposefully sly with their grammar to entertainingly dupe readers waiting in line at Tesco and Wal-Mart. The conclusions regarding methane are twisted by one of the most entertaining and comical UFO inspiring tabloid 'newspapers' on the planet, none other than the National Inquirer's big brother, Britain's "THE SUN". Always loved that name! The author is none other than the Sun Spaceman who must have a blast at his job! Below's the original article which is much more entertaining. I sense a little sarcasm towards Expert Colin Pillinger, head of the "ill-fated Beagle 2" - just look at his picture. :-) The other British Space Expert (presented as "Britain's Top Space Expert") quoted is Nick Pope, former head of Britian's government sponsored "UFO program". http://www.nickpope.net/biography.htm Best Health, Doug http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2133475.ece By PAUL SUTHERLAND Sun Spaceman Published: Today ALIEN microbes living just below the Martian soil are responsible for a haze of methane around the Red Planet, Nasa scientists believe. The gas, belched in vast quantities in our world by cows, was detected by orbiting spacecraft and from Earth using giant telescopes. Discovery ... gas around Mars Nasa are today expected to confirm its presence during a briefing at their Washington HQ. And the find is seen as exciting new evidence that Martian microbes are still alive today. To read more of our exclusive UFO stories click here. Some scientists reckon methane is also produced by volcanic processes. But there are NO known active volcanoes on Mars. Furthermore, Nasa has found the gas in the same regions as clouds of water vapour, the vital ?drink? needed to support life. Mission ... probe on the surface of Mars Experts speculate that the methane is being emitted as a waste product by organisms called methanogens living in water beneath underground ice. And they would have to be alive today because the methane would otherwise have been lost from the Martian atmosphere. What a scoop ... Phoenix lander dug up chunks of ice last year John Murray ? a member of the Mars Express European space probe team ? believes the mini-Martians may be in a form of suspended animation and could even be REVIVED. He has found overwhelming evidence of a vast frozen ocean beneath the dust near the Martian equator where simple life could have thrived as microbes. Today?s briefing will feature a star panel of Mars experts headed by Michael Meyer, chief scientist for Nasa?s Mars programme. UK Mars expert Professor Colin Pillinger believes=2 0the methane can only point to the presence of life on the planet. His ill-fated Beagle 2 probe was carrying a laboratory that would have looked directly for such signs of life when it crashed on Christmas Day 2003. Prof Pillinger told The Sun last night: ?Methane is a product of biology. For methane to be in Mars? atmosphere, there has to be a replenishable source. ?The most obvious source of methane is organisms. So if you find methane in an atmosphere, you can suspect there is life. ?It?s not proof, but it makes it worth a much closer look.? Nasa?s findings confirm studies by Europe?s Mars Express probe, which has been orbiting the planet for five years and also reported signs of methane in 2004. Britain?s top space expert Nick Pope last night hailed the new evidence of life as ?the most important discovery of all time?. He said: ?What could be more profound than to know it?s not just us out there? Expert ... Colin Pillinger "We?ve really only scratched the surface ? it?s an absolute certainty that there is life out there and we are not alone. ?If there is life on Mars then the logical conclusion is that there must be life elsewhere too. ?If it?s happened here on Earth, then why shouldn?t it happen anywhere? The implication is this is a20universal law. ?Mars is very similar to Earth. It?s about the same size, it?s a rocky inner planet. ?Most scientists believe it probably has liquid water which is almost universally agreed as the pre-requisite for life. I am certain there is other life in the Universe and, most likely, intelligent life.? The Red Planet has gripped the public imagination for more than a century as a possible home for aliens. But life could not survive on its surface because, unlike the Earth, Mars has no magnetic shield to protect it against deadly sun radiation. The planet resembles our own in many ways. It is made of rock, it has an atmosphere and weather systems. Although much smaller with a diameter of around 4,222 miles, Mars? day is just 40 minutes longer than ours and its tilted axis gives it seasons. Water has been found in the form of buried ice and scientists believe that two billion years ago, Mars was covered with liquid oceans. Proof that water is still on Mars came in 2007 when Mars Express used ground-piercing radar to study the region around the planet?s South Pole. Nasa?s latest lander Phoenix dug up chunks of Martian ice last year. It swiftly evaporated into the thin atmosphere. Nasa have controversially hit the headlines before for claiming evidence for Martians. In 1996, they said they had discovered fossilised organisms i n a meteorite from the planet. But other scientists were sceptical. Today?s conference will be broadcast live online by NASA TV (www.nasa.gov/ntv) at 7pm. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Ford To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? >Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also >produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules >this possibility out. So by that somewhat 'skewed logic' (imho) there's also life on Jupiter, the moon, Titan, at least one exoplanet and Venus, oh or could it perchance be that it is volcanic/geologic in origin, and we just haven't located the source yet - but that doesn't grab the head lines I guess!! Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: 15 January 2009 15:36 To: meteorite list Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24917099-401,00.html Methane discovery suggests presence of life on Mars, say Nasa scientists NASA scientists are expected to announce they may have proof there is life on Mars. The scientists suspect alien microbes are alive and kicking just below the soil of the big planet, after=2 0large quantities of what is believed to be the organisms' waste products were detected. The organisms - called methanogens - are suspected to have been living in water beneath underground ice, where they are disgorging tonnes and tonnes of methane. On Earth, methane is produced in massive quantities by animals such as cows, sheep and goats. Giant telescopes from Earth and NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have spotted a haze of the gas surrounding Mars, and according to some scientists this can only point to the presence of life on Mars. "Methane is a product of biology," UK Mars expert Professor Colin Pillinger told UK tabloid The Sun last night. "For methane to be in Mars' atmosphere, there has to be a replenishable source. "The most obvious source of methane is organisms, so if you find methane in an atmosphere, you can suspect there is life. "It's not proof, but it makes it worth a much closer look." "What could be more profound than to know it's not just us out there? "We've really only scratched the surface - it's an absolute certainty that there is life out there and we are not alone. "If there is life on Mars then the logical conclusion is that there must be life elsewhere too." Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules this possibility out. Methane plu mes are very short-lived, it is chemically broken down by sunlight within a year. Something is replacing the methane, and quickly. The fascination with the idea that Mars harbours life has pervaded popular culture for over a century. The public obsession with Martians began way back in 1877 when astronomer Giovanni Sciaparelli reported observations of large canali - meaning "channels" - on Mars, which he speculated must have been dug by an intelligent race, although this proved mistaken. H.G. Wells classic 1898 novel of a Martian invasion of Earth War of the Worlds has been turned into two big budget Hollywood films and when staged as 1938 radio play by Orson Wells caused reportedly caused panic when some of the audience mistook it for a real newscast. Director Tim Burton reimagined the scenario with playfully malignant extraterrestrials in his blackly comic 1996 film Mars Attacks. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Ford To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? >Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also >produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules >this possibility out. So by that somewhat 'skewed logic' (imho) there's also life on Jupiter, the moon, Titan, at least one exoplanet and Venus, oh or could it perchance b e that it is volcanic/geologic in origin, and we just haven't located the source yet - but that doesn't grab the head lines I guess!! Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: 15 January 2009 15:36 To: meteorite list Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24917099-401,00.html Methane discovery suggests presence of life on Mars, say Nasa scientists NASA scientists are expected to announce they may have proof there is life on Mars. The scientists suspect alien microbes are alive and kicking just below the soil of the big planet, after large quantities of what is believed to be the organisms' waste products were detected. The organisms - called methanogens - are suspected to have been living in water beneath underground ice, where they are disgorging tonnes and tonnes of methane. On Earth, methane is produced in massive quantities by animals such as cows, sheep and goats. Giant telescopes from Earth and NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have spotted a haze of the gas surrounding Mars, and according to some scientists this can only point to the presence of life on Mars. "Methane is a product of biology," UK Mars expert Professor Colin Pillinger told UK tabloid The Sun last night. "For methane to be in Mars' atmosp here, there has to be a replenishable source. "The most obvious source of methane is organisms, so if you find methane in an atmosphere, you can suspect there is life. "It's not proof, but it makes it worth a much closer look." "What could be more profound than to know it's not just us out there? "We've really only scratched the surface - it's an absolute certainty that there is life out there and we are not alone. "If there is life on Mars then the logical conclusion is that there must be life elsewhere too." Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules this possibility out. Methane plumes are very short-lived, it is chemically broken down by sunlight within a year. Something is replacing the methane, and quickly. The fascination with the idea that Mars harbours life has pervaded popular culture for over a century. The public obsession with Martians began way back in 1877 when astronomer Giovanni Sciaparelli reported observations of large canali - meaning "channels" - on Mars, which he speculated must have been dug by an intelligent race, although this proved mistaken. H.G. Wells classic 1898 novel of a Martian invasion of Earth War of the Worlds has been turned into two big budget Hollywood films and when staged as 1938 radio play by Orson Wells caused reportedly caused panic when some of the audience mistook it for a real newscast. Director Tim Burton reimagined the scenario with playfully malignant extraterrestrials in his blackly comic 1996 film Mars Attacks. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From epgrondine at yahoo.com Thu Jan 15 13:01:26 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:01:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Life on Mars? Message-ID: <491419.49837.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all - Let us suppose that the methane on Mars does come from organisms. Then before manned Mars flight will be possible it will have to be definitively shown that all of them are neither pathenogenic nor hostile to Earth's ecosystem. In which case all money spent on Thiokol's Ares 5 would be a complete waste. (Which is not to say that it isn't already.) E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From paul at meteorite.com Thu Jan 15 13:11:17 2009 From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:11:17 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Quartzsite Gem Show 2009 Video by Ruben Garcia Message-ID: <496F7C45.7090504@meteorite.com> Dear List, Ruben asked if I would post this link to his new video of the Quartzsite Gem Show 2009 & a new Arizona Find. http://www.meteorite.com/blog/quartzsite-gem-show-2009/ From yellowengine at earthlink.net Thu Jan 15 13:36:46 2009 From: yellowengine at earthlink.net (RJP) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 12:36:46 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] Attn: Mike Farmer Message-ID: <29990290.1232044607516.JavaMail.root@elwamui-ovcar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Please contact me off list, please. Thank you. Ryan Pawelski From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Thu Jan 15 14:15:39 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 19:15:39 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there?/Pillinger Message-ID: <20090115191539.YIEWP.370565.root@web07-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi All, The Sun has always had a reputation for twisting the truth like this....but as for Colin Pillinger. I have met him several times and he is dedicated to inspiring youngsters to get involved with space and science...his early work involved the first studies of Allende in those early days. He has a knack of turning around the negative publicity and quirky press coverage that the press generates in his/science's favour, exploiting it in his own way to promote public understanding. Last time I saw him he invited me down to PSSRI to look around the latest projects and see their new equipment for probing the latest space rocks and Stardust material , etc and was promoting his latest book "Space is a Funny Place" in which has used his lifelong collection of space press coverage and cartoons to illustrate many serious aspects of science...very entertaining. I have signed copy sitting alongside my meteorite books. see here.. http://colinpillinger.com/barnstormpr.co.uk/books.htm Unfortunately he is slowly succumbing to MS and is fighting hard to continue promoting the new technologies created for the Beagle project both back in Space and here on earth in portable medical applications for the third world. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article545436.ece Just regretting not making time for Tucson this year. Hope everyone else out there has a great time...perhaps next year when my pound might buy a bit more!! I live in hope. Graham Ensor, UK ---- mexicodoug at aim.com wrote: > Hi Mark and Darren, Oh just another case of what happens when the scientific peer-review process is omitted and the overall press tries to pick it up without quoting their sources very noticeably or being purposefully sly with their grammar to entertainingly dupe readers waiting in line at Tesco and Wal-Mart. The conclusions regarding methane are twisted by one of the most entertaining and comical UFO inspiring tabloid 'newspapers' on the planet, none other than the National Inquirer's big brother, Britain's "THE SUN". Always loved that name! The author is none other than the Sun Spaceman who must have a blast at his job! Below's the original article which is much more entertaining. I sense a little sarcasm towards Expert Colin Pillinger, head of the "ill-fated Beagle 2" - just look at his picture. :-) The other British Space Expert (presented as "Britain's Top Space Expert") quoted is Nick Pope, former head of Britian's government sponsored "UFO program". http://www.nickpope.net/biography.htm Best Health, Doug http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2133475.ece By PAUL SUTHERLAND Sun Spaceman Published: Today ALIEN microbes living just below the Martian soil are responsible for a haze of methane around the Red Planet, Nasa scientists believe. The gas, belched in vast quantities in our world by cows, was detected by orbiting spacecraft and from Earth using giant telescopes. Discovery ... gas around Mars Nasa are today expected to confirm its presence during a briefing at their Washington HQ. And the find is seen as exciting new evidence that Martian microbes are still alive today. To read more of our exclusive UFO stories click here. Some scientists reckon methane is also produced by volcanic processes. But there are NO known active volcanoes on Mars. Furthermore, Nasa has found the gas in the same regions as clouds of water vapour, the vital ?drink? needed to support life. Mission ... probe on the surface of Mars Experts speculate that the methane is being emitted as a waste product by organisms called methanogens living in water beneath underground ice. And they would have to be alive today because the methane would otherwise have been lost from the Martian atmosphere. What a scoop ... Phoenix lander dug up chunks of ice last year John Murray ? a member of the Mars Express European space probe team ? believes the mini-Martians may be in a form of suspended animation and could even be REVIVED. He has found overwhelming evidence of a vast frozen ocean beneath the dust near the Martian equator where simple life could have thrived as microbes. Today?s briefing will feature a star panel of Mars experts headed by Michael Meyer, chief scientist for Nasa?s Mars programme. UK Mars expert Professor Colin Pillinger believes=2 0the methane can only point to the presence of life on the planet. His ill-fated Beagle 2 probe was carrying a laboratory that would have looked directly for such signs of life when it crashed on Christmas Day 2003. Prof Pillinger told The Sun last night: ?Methane is a product of biology. For methane to be in Mars? atmosphere, there has to be a replenishable source. ?The most obvious source of methane is organisms. So if you find methane in an atmosphere, you can suspect there is life. ?It?s not proof, but it makes it worth a much closer look.? Nasa?s findings confirm studies by Europe?s Mars Express probe, which has been orbiting the planet for five years and also reported signs of methane in 2004. Britain?s top space expert Nick Pope last night hailed the new evidence of life as ?the most important discovery of all time?. He said: ?What could be more profound than to know it?s not just us out there? Expert ... Colin Pillinger "We?ve really only scratched the surface ? it?s an absolute certainty that there is life out there and we are not alone. ?If there is life on Mars then the logical conclusion is that there must be life elsewhere too. ?If it?s happened here on Earth, then why shouldn?t it happen anywhere? The implication is this is a20universal law. ?Mars is very similar to Earth. It?s about the same size, it?s a rocky inner planet. ?Most scientists believe it probably has liquid water which is almost universally agreed as the pre-requisite for life. I am certain there is other life in the Universe and, most likely, intelligent life.? The Red Planet has gripped the public imagination for more than a century as a possible home for aliens. But life could not survive on its surface because, unlike the Earth, Mars has no magnetic shield to protect it against deadly sun radiation. The planet resembles our own in many ways. It is made of rock, it has an atmosphere and weather systems. Although much smaller with a diameter of around 4,222 miles, Mars? day is just 40 minutes longer than ours and its tilted axis gives it seasons. Water has been found in the form of buried ice and scientists believe that two billion years ago, Mars was covered with liquid oceans. Proof that water is still on Mars came in 2007 when Mars Express used ground-piercing radar to study the region around the planet?s South Pole. Nasa?s latest lander Phoenix dug up chunks of Martian ice last year. It swiftly evaporated into the thin atmosphere. Nasa have controversially hit the headlines before for claiming evidence for Martians. In 1996, they said they had discovered fossilised organisms i n a meteorite from the planet. But other scientists were sceptical. Today?s conference will be broadcast live online by NASA TV (www.nasa.gov/ntv) at 7pm. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Ford To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? >Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also >produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules >this possibility out. So by that somewhat 'skewed logic' (imho) there's also life on Jupiter, the moon, Titan, at least one exoplanet and Venus, oh or could it perchance be that it is volcanic/geologic in origin, and we just haven't located the source yet - but that doesn't grab the head lines I guess!! Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: 15 January 2009 15:36 To: meteorite list Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24917099-401,00.html Methane discovery suggests presence of life on Mars, say Nasa scientists NASA scientists are expected to announce they may have proof there is life on Mars. The scientists suspect alien microbes are alive and kicking just below the soil of the big planet, after=2 0large quantities of what is believed to be the organisms' waste products were detected. The organisms - called methanogens - are suspected to have been living in water beneath underground ice, where they are disgorging tonnes and tonnes of methane. On Earth, methane is produced in massive quantities by animals such as cows, sheep and goats. Giant telescopes from Earth and NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have spotted a haze of the gas surrounding Mars, and according to some scientists this can only point to the presence of life on Mars. "Methane is a product of biology," UK Mars expert Professor Colin Pillinger told UK tabloid The Sun last night. "For methane to be in Mars' atmosphere, there has to be a replenishable source. "The most obvious source of methane is organisms, so if you find methane in an atmosphere, you can suspect there is life. "It's not proof, but it makes it worth a much closer look." "What could be more profound than to know it's not just us out there? "We've really only scratched the surface - it's an absolute certainty that there is life out there and we are not alone. "If there is life on Mars then the logical conclusion is that there must be life elsewhere too." Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules this possibility out. Methane plu mes are very short-lived, it is chemically broken down by sunlight within a year. Something is replacing the methane, and quickly. The fascination with the idea that Mars harbours life has pervaded popular culture for over a century. The public obsession with Martians began way back in 1877 when astronomer Giovanni Sciaparelli reported observations of large canali - meaning "channels" - on Mars, which he speculated must have been dug by an intelligent race, although this proved mistaken. H.G. Wells classic 1898 novel of a Martian invasion of Earth War of the Worlds has been turned into two big budget Hollywood films and when staged as 1938 radio play by Orson Wells caused reportedly caused panic when some of the audience mistook it for a real newscast. Director Tim Burton reimagined the scenario with playfully malignant extraterrestrials in his blackly comic 1996 film Mars Attacks. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Ford To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? >Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also >produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules >this possibility out. So by that somewhat 'skewed logic' (imho) there's also life on Jupiter, the moon, Titan, at least one exoplanet and Venus, oh or could it perchance b e that it is volcanic/geologic in origin, and we just haven't located the source yet - but that doesn't grab the head lines I guess!! Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: 15 January 2009 15:36 To: meteorite list Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24917099-401,00.html Methane discovery suggests presence of life on Mars, say Nasa scientists NASA scientists are expected to announce they may have proof there is life on Mars. The scientists suspect alien microbes are alive and kicking just below the soil of the big planet, after large quantities of what is believed to be the organisms' waste products were detected. The organisms - called methanogens - are suspected to have been living in water beneath underground ice, where they are disgorging tonnes and tonnes of methane. On Earth, methane is produced in massive quantities by animals such as cows, sheep and goats. Giant telescopes from Earth and NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have spotted a haze of the gas surrounding Mars, and according to some scientists this can only point to the presence of life on Mars. "Methane is a product of biology," UK Mars expert Professor Colin Pillinger told UK tabloid The Sun last night. "For methane to be in Mars' atmosp here, there has to be a replenishable source. "The most obvious source of methane is organisms, so if you find methane in an atmosphere, you can suspect there is life. "It's not proof, but it makes it worth a much closer look." "What could be more profound than to know it's not just us out there? "We've really only scratched the surface - it's an absolute certainty that there is life out there and we are not alone. "If there is life on Mars then the logical conclusion is that there must be life elsewhere too." Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules this possibility out. Methane plumes are very short-lived, it is chemically broken down by sunlight within a year. Something is replacing the methane, and quickly. The fascination with the idea that Mars harbours life has pervaded popular culture for over a century. The public obsession with Martians began way back in 1877 when astronomer Giovanni Sciaparelli reported observations of large canali - meaning "channels" - on Mars, which he speculated must have been dug by an intelligent race, although this proved mistaken. H.G. Wells classic 1898 novel of a Martian invasion of Earth War of the Worlds has been turned into two big budget Hollywood films and when staged as 1938 radio play by Orson Wells caused reportedly caused panic when some of the audience mistook it for a real newscast. Director Tim Burton reimagined the scenario with playfully malignant extraterrestrials in his blackly comic 1996 film Mars Attacks. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jan 15 14:30:25 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 15 Jan 2009 19:30:25 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Zaklodzie Revisited Message-ID: Hello Tracy, Z?limir, Marcin, and List, PRZYLIBISKI T.A. et al. (2005) The Zaklodzie enstatite meteorite: Mineralogy, petrology, origin and classification (MAPS 40-9, 2005, pp. A185-A200, excerpt from p. A191): "No qualitative differences in mineral composition were found between the three zones of the meteorite. The observed color differences result from higher concentrations of very fine, disseminated graphite inclusions in the two outer zones and the locally rusty color is due to weathering. In the lighter internal zone, graphite forms fairly large aggregates." Best regards, Bernd From mexicodoug at aim.com Thu Jan 15 14:48:32 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 14:48:32 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there?/Pillinger In-Reply-To: <20090115191539.YIEWP.370565.root@web07-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> References: <20090115191539.YIEWP.370565.root@web07-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Message-ID: <8CB4561613D0FC2-E9C-369@webmail-db19.sysops.aol.com> Hello Graham, Thanks for the kind words on Dr. Pillinger. I am sure he has faced very difficult challenges throughout his career, considering the dependence in the UK on politicians and external agencies for the success of such forward looking endeavors. It is sad to learn about his situation with MS and I hope even The Sun is kind enough to be a little more discreet in its opportunism and spinning of yarns that tie him to their half-truthed propaganda. From the national academy of science of the UK, here were Dr. Pillinger's wishes for Christmas in 2007, in his own words: A copy of Werner von Braun's book "the Mars project". (How the rocket pioneer proposed to put humans on Mars, written the 1940/50s). I could get this Tickets to Jeff Wayne's musical "War of the Worlds" at O2 on December 22. This is based on H.G Wells book (still the best ever science fiction story) and although Wayne's is a musical he has kept the story line as HG wrote it, not transported it to USA (even though Jeff is an American). His production is getting more and more adventurous and I would love to see it. Tickets are all sold out so not much hope unless I brazenly ring up jeff wayne and invite myself. (I have met him a couple of times and interviewed him for THES). Now comes the real wishful thinking. I would like the UK government to commit to a real involvement in manned space activities starting20with a return to the moon to create a permanent base. I was involved in the Apollo programme and know just how much it inspired the World. I had always believed the UK would be amongst the first on the Moon (see book Journey into Space by Charles Chilton). The Nasa administrator, Mike Griffin, is here in UK at the moment seeking UK to join NASA in a full partnership. He said at a meeting last night he wants a full partnership not UK to turn up in 2020 saying they would now like a British astronaut on a flight. In my dreams we commit now to sharing in this adventure and it goes ahead in time for Michael Foale (i.e. someone with joint UK/US citizenship) is first Commander of the permanent base on the Moon. If I can only have only one present I'll have the last one. NB Even I am not so unrealistic as to believe asking the UK government to pay for a Beagle 3 would get me anywhere except committed to an Institution for the insane. Best health, Doug -----Original Message----- From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; mexicodoug at aim.com; mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 1:15 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there?/Pillinger Hi All, The Sun has always had a reputation for twisting the truth like this....but as for Colin Pillinger. I have met him several times and he is dedicated to inspiring youngsters to g et involved with space and science...his early work involved the first studies of Allende in those early days. He has a knack of turning around the negative publicity and quirky press coverage that the press generates in his/science's favour, exploiting it in his own way to promote public understanding. Last time I saw him he invited me down to PSSRI to look around the latest projects and see their new equipment for probing the latest space rocks and Stardust material , etc and was promoting his latest book "Space is a Funny Place" in which has used his lifelong collection of space press coverage and cartoons to illustrate many serious aspects of science...very entertaining. I have signed copy sitting alongside my meteorite books. see here.. http://colinpillinger.com/barnstormpr.co.uk/books.htm Unfortunately he is slowly succumbing to MS and is fighting hard to continue promoting the new technologies created for the Beagle project both back in Space and here on earth in portable medical applications for the third world. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article545436.ece Just regretting not making time for Tucson this year. Hope everyone else out there has a great time...perhaps next year when my pound might buy a bit more!! I live in hope. Graham Ensor, UK ---- mexicodoug at aim.com wrote: > Hi Mark and Darren, Oh just another case of what happens when the scientific peer-review proc ess is omitted and the overall press tries to pick it up without quoting their sources very noticeably or being purposefully sly with their grammar to entertainingly dupe readers waiting in line at Tesco and Wal-Mart. The conclusions regarding methane are twisted by one of the most entertaining and comical UFO inspiring tabloid 'newspapers' on the planet, none other than the National Inquirer's big brother, Britain's "THE SUN". Always loved that name! The author is none other than the Sun Spaceman who must have a blast at his job! Below's the original article which is much more entertaining. I sense a little sarcasm towards Expert Colin Pillinger, head of the "ill-fated Beagle 2" - just look at his picture. :-) The other British Space Expert (presented as "Britain's Top Space Expert") quoted is Nick Pope, former head of Britian's government sponsored "UFO program". http://www.nickpope.net/biography.htm Best Health, Doug http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2133475.ece By PAUL SUTHERLAND Sun Spaceman Published: Today ALIEN microbes living just below the Martian soil are responsible for a haze of methane around the Red Planet, Nasa scientists believe. The gas, belched in vast quantities in our world by cows, was detected by orbiting spacecraft and from Earth using giant telescopes. Discovery ... gas around Mars Nasa are today expected to confirm its presence during a briefing at their Washington HQ. And the find20is seen as exciting new evidence that Martian microbes are still alive today. To read more of our exclusive UFO stories click here. Some scientists reckon methane is also produced by volcanic processes. But there are NO known active volcanoes on Mars. Furthermore, Nasa has found the gas in the same regions as clouds of water vapour, the vital ?drink? needed to support life. Mission ... probe on the surface of Mars Experts speculate that the methane is being emitted as a waste product by organisms called methanogens living in water beneath underground ice. And they would have to be alive today because the methane would otherwise have been lost from the Martian atmosphere. What a scoop ... Phoenix lander dug up chunks of ice last year John Murray ? a member of the Mars Express European space probe team ? believes the mini-Martians may be in a form of suspended animation and could even be REVIVED. He has found overwhelming evidence of a vast frozen ocean beneath the dust near the Martian equator where simple life could have thrived as microbes. Today?s briefing will feature a star panel of Mars experts headed by Michael Meyer, chief scientist for Nasa?s Mars programme. UK Mars expert Professor Colin Pillinger believes=2 0the methane can only point to the presence of life on the planet. His ill-fated Beagle 2 probe was carrying a laboratory that would have lo oked directly for such signs of life when it crashed on Christmas Day 2003. Prof Pillinger told The Sun last night: ?Methane is a product of biology. For methane to be in Mars? atmosphere, there has to be a replenishable source. ?The most obvious source of methane is organisms. So if you find methane in an atmosphere, you can suspect there is life. ?It?s not proof, but it makes it worth a much closer look.? Nasa?s findings confirm studies by Europe?s Mars Express probe, which has been orbiting the planet for five years and also reported signs of methane in 2004. Britain?s top space expert Nick Pope last night hailed the new evidence of life as ?the most important discovery of all time?. He said: ?What could be more profound than to know it?s not just us out there? Expert ... Colin Pillinger "We?ve really only scratched the surface ? it?s an absolute certainty that there is life out there and we are not alone. ?If there is life on Mars then the logical conclusion is that there must be life elsewhere too. ?If it?s happened here on Earth, then why shouldn?t it happen anywhere? The implication is this is a20universal law. ?Mars is very similar to Earth. It?s about the same size, it?s a rocky inner planet. ?Most scientists believe it probably has l iquid water which is almost universally agreed as the pre-requisite for life. I am certain there is other life in the Universe and, most likely, intelligent life.? The Red Planet has gripped the public imagination for more than a century as a possible home for aliens. But life could not survive on its surface because, unlike the Earth, Mars has no magnetic shield to protect it against deadly sun radiation. The planet resembles our own in many ways. It is made of rock, it has an atmosphere and weather systems. Although much smaller with a diameter of around 4,222 miles, Mars? day is just 40 minutes longer than ours and its tilted axis gives it seasons. Water has been found in the form of buried ice and scientists believe that two billion years ago, Mars was covered with liquid oceans. Proof that water is still on Mars came in 2007 when Mars Express used ground-piercing radar to study the region around the planet?s South Pole. Nasa?s latest lander Phoenix dug up chunks of Martian ice last year. It swiftly evaporated into the thin atmosphere. Nasa have controversially hit the headlines before for claiming evidence for Martians. In 1996, they said they had discovered fossilised organisms i n a meteorite from the planet. But other scientists were sceptical. Today?s conference will be broadcast live online by NASA TV (www.nasa.gov/ntv) at 7pm. ---- -Original Message----- From: Mark Ford To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? >Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also >produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules >this possibility out. So by that somewhat 'skewed logic' (imho) there's also life on Jupiter, the moon, Titan, at least one exoplanet and Venus, oh or could it perchance be that it is volcanic/geologic in origin, and we just haven't located the source yet - but that doesn't grab the head lines I guess!! Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: 15 January 2009 15:36 To: meteorite list Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24917099-401,00.html Methane discovery suggests presence of life on Mars, say Nasa scientists NASA scientists are expected to announce they may have proof there is life on Mars. The scientists suspect alien microbes are alive and kicking just below the soil of the big planet, after=2 0large quantities of what is believed to be the organisms' waste products were detected. The organisms - called methanogens - are suspected to have been living in water beneath underground ice, wh ere they are disgorging tonnes and tonnes of methane. On Earth, methane is produced in massive quantities by animals such as cows, sheep and goats. Giant telescopes from Earth and NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have spotted a haze of the gas surrounding Mars, and according to some scientists this can only point to the presence of life on Mars. "Methane is a product of biology," UK Mars expert Professor Colin Pillinger told UK tabloid The Sun last night. "For methane to be in Mars' atmosphere, there has to be a replenishable source. "The most obvious source of methane is organisms, so if you find methane in an atmosphere, you can suspect there is life. "It's not proof, but it makes it worth a much closer look." "What could be more profound than to know it's not just us out there? "We've really only scratched the surface - it's an absolute certainty that there is life out there and we are not alone. "If there is life on Mars then the logical conclusion is that there must be life elsewhere too." Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules this possibility out. Methane plu mes are very short-lived, it is chemically broken down by sunlight within a year. Something is replacing the methane, and quickly. The fascination with the idea that Mars harbours life has perv aded popular culture for over a century. The public obsession with Martians began way back in 1877 when astronomer Giovanni Sciaparelli reported observations of large canali - meaning "channels" - on Mars, which he speculated must have been dug by an intelligent race, although this proved mistaken. H.G. Wells classic 1898 novel of a Martian invasion of Earth War of the Worlds has been turned into two big budget Hollywood films and when staged as 1938 radio play by Orson Wells caused reportedly caused panic when some of the audience mistook it for a real newscast. Director Tim Burton reimagined the scenario with playfully malignant extraterrestrials in his blackly comic 1996 film Mars Attacks. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Ford To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? >Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also >produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules >this possibility out. So by that somewhat 'skewed logic' (imho) there's also life on Jupiter, the moon, Titan, at least one exoplanet and Venus, oh or could it perchance b e that it is volcanic/geologic in origin, and we just haven't located the source yet - but that doesn't grab the head lines I guess!! Best, Mark -----Origin al Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: 15 January 2009 15:36 To: meteorite list Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24917099-401,00.html Methane discovery suggests presence of life on Mars, say Nasa scientists NASA scientists are expected to announce they may have proof there is life on Mars. The scientists suspect alien microbes are alive and kicking just below the soil of the big planet, after large quantities of what is believed to be the organisms' waste products were detected. The organisms - called methanogens - are suspected to have been living in water beneath underground ice, where they are disgorging tonnes and tonnes of methane. On Earth, methane is produced in massive quantities by animals such as cows, sheep and goats. Giant telescopes from Earth and NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have spotted a haze of the gas surrounding Mars, and according to some scientists this can only point to the presence of life on Mars. "Methane is a product of biology," UK Mars expert Professor Colin Pillinger told UK tabloid The Sun last night. "For methane to be in Mars' atmosp here, there has to be a replenishable source. "The most obvious source of methane is organisms, so if you find methane in an atmosphere, you can suspect there is life. "It 's not proof, but it makes it worth a much closer look." "What could be more profound than to know it's not just us out there? "We've really only scratched the surface - it's an absolute certainty that there is life out there and we are not alone. "If there is life on Mars then the logical conclusion is that there must be life elsewhere too." Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules this possibility out. Methane plumes are very short-lived, it is chemically broken down by sunlight within a year. Something is replacing the methane, and quickly. The fascination with the idea that Mars harbours life has pervaded popular culture for over a century. The public obsession with Martians began way back in 1877 when astronomer Giovanni Sciaparelli reported observations of large canali - meaning "channels" - on Mars, which he speculated must have been dug by an intelligent race, although this proved mistaken. H.G. Wells classic 1898 novel of a Martian invasion of Earth War of the Worlds has been turned into two big budget Hollywood films and when staged as 1938 radio play by Orson Wells caused reportedly caused panic when some of the audience mistook it for a real newscast. Director Tim Burton reimagined the scenario with playfully malignant extraterrestrials in his blackly comic 1996 film Mars Attacks. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Thu Jan 15 19:05:52 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:05:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? In-Reply-To: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C494FA9E1@gamma.ssl.atw> Message-ID: <189008.93341.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I share your skeptism, Mark. I thought it had already been established that X-ray and UV dissociation of CO2 and H2O could be the source of the carbon and hydrogen in the martian atmosphere that could also produce methane in the minute quantities. Oh, sorry...that won't sell newspapers, will it? I used a big word that morons won't understand. Rob P.S. I acknowledge the source of this thread is merely forwarding information and in no way mean to suggest that they are moronic. If you thought I was then that's proof that we are not nice enough to each other on this list. --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Mark Ford wrote: > From: Mark Ford > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 4:12 PM > >Although there is a consensus among some scientists that > methane is > also > >produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active > volcanoes on > Mars rules > >this possibility out. > > > So by that somewhat 'skewed logic' (imho) > there's also life on Jupiter, > the moon, Titan, at least one exoplanet and Venus, oh or > could it > perchance be that it is volcanic/geologic in origin, and we > just haven't > located the source yet - but that doesn't grab the head > lines I guess!! > > Best, > > Mark > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On > Behalf Of Darren > Garrison > Sent: 15 January 2009 15:36 > To: meteorite list > Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? > > http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24917099-401,00.html > > Methane discovery suggests presence of life on Mars, say > Nasa scientists > > NASA scientists are expected to announce they may have > proof there is > life on > Mars. > > The scientists suspect alien microbes are alive and kicking > just below > the soil > of the big planet, after large quantities of what is > believed to be the > organisms' waste products were detected. > > The organisms - called methanogens - are suspected to have > been living > in water > beneath underground ice, where they are disgorging tonnes > and tonnes of > methane. > > On Earth, methane is produced in massive quantities by > animals such as > cows, > sheep and goats. > > Giant telescopes from Earth and NASA's Mars > Reconnaissance Orbiter have > spotted > a haze of the gas surrounding Mars, and according to some > scientists > this can > only point to the presence of life on Mars. > > "Methane is a product of biology," UK Mars expert > Professor Colin > Pillinger told > UK tabloid The Sun last night. > > "For methane to be in Mars' atmosphere, there has > to be a replenishable > source. > > "The most obvious source of methane is organisms, so > if you find methane > in an > atmosphere, you can suspect there is life. > > "It's not proof, but it makes it worth a much > closer look." > > "What could be more profound than to know it's not > just us out there? > > "We've really only scratched the surface - > it's an absolute certainty > that there > is life out there and we are not alone. > > "If there is life on Mars then the logical conclusion > is that there must > be life > elsewhere too." > > Although there is a consensus among some scientists that > methane is also > produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active > volcanoes on Mars > rules > this possibility out. > > Methane plumes are very short-lived, it is chemically > broken down by > sunlight > within a year. Something is replacing the methane, and > quickly. > > The fascination with the idea that Mars harbours life has > pervaded > popular > culture for over a century. > > The public obsession with Martians began way back in 1877 > when > astronomer > Giovanni Sciaparelli reported observations of large canali > - meaning > "channels" > - on Mars, which he speculated must have been dug by an > intelligent > race, > although this proved mistaken. > > H.G. Wells classic 1898 novel of a Martian invasion of > Earth War of the > Worlds > has been turned into two big budget Hollywood films and > when staged as > 1938 > radio play by Orson Wells caused reportedly caused panic > when some of > the > audience mistook it for a real newscast. > > Director Tim Burton reimagined the scenario with playfully > malignant > extraterrestrials in his blackly comic 1996 film Mars > Attacks. > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: > > This email and any files transmitted with it are > confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please > notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use > this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose > their contents to any other person. > > GENERAL STATEMENT: > > Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be > monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to > secure the effective operation of the system and for other > lawful purposes. > > Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W > Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Thu Jan 15 19:45:21 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 16:45:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rock and roll on Mars In-Reply-To: <20090115123432.A0NFV.380496.root@web06-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Message-ID: <833719.29995.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> This is a wonderful explanation. It is incredibly simple but almost certainly right. I have seen a similar effect on the windswept beaches of the Western Isles. OK, we're only talkin about a few feet but you get a similar effect (before the tide comes in and wipes it clean). Often I have seen trains of tiny particles behind a stone on the beach when the wind blows strongly but consistently. Pits do form in front of obstacles and while I've never seen a rock move forward (that's the only bit I have a problem with) into the wind, you do see trains behind them. While most of us would easily recognise Universal Gravitation, General Relativity and Quantum Electro Dynamics as genius, the minds that think of these things are far in advance of us "everyday" mortals. The everyday bores the Einsteins, Newtons and Yukawa's. It takes a special type of genius to spot the everyday stuff like this. The sort of thing we think we could have come up with if only we were a little smarter. Whether this turns out to be right or wrong as an explanation, I take my hat off (and I really do wear a hat, it's an Indiana Jones type one..how sad) to the proponent of this theory. Rob McC --- On Thu, 1/15/09, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com wrote: > From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rock and roll on Mars > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, cynapse at charter.net > Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 12:34 PM > Hi Darren/All, > > Over the years I have seen many photographs of desert > meteorite finds where the meteorite looked almost as if it > had hit and fractured on impact and only spreading around a > short way....but this mechanism would explain that much > better with the meteorite weathering and fracturing over > time and not on impact and then slowly spreading out over > time into an even pattern. > > Graham Ensor, UK. > > > ---- Darren Garrison wrote: > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479873,00.html > > > > Strange Rock Formations on Mars Explained > > > > Wednesday, January 14, 2009 > > > > Rocks on Mars are in some areas scattered in a > strangely uniform fashion, > > puzzling scientists for years. Now they've figured > it out. > > > > Researchers had thought the rocks were picked up and > carried downwind by extreme > > high-speed winds thought to occur on Mars in the past. > > > > Although Mars is a windy planet, its atmosphere is > very thin, so it would be > > difficult for the wind to carry the small rocks, which > range in size from a > > quarter to a softball, said Jon Pelletier, a > geoscientist at the University of > > Arizona in Tucson. > > > > Pelletier and his colleagues now think the rocks are > constantly on the move, > > rolling into the wind, not away from it, and creating > a natural feedback system > > that results in their tidy arrangement. > > > > Rock-n-roll > > > > Here's what they think happens: Wind removes loose > sand in front of the rocks, > > creating pits there and depositing that sand behind > the rocks, creating mounds. > > The rocks then roll forward into the pits, moving into > the wind. As long as the > > wind continues to blow, the process is repeated and > the rocks move forward. > > > > The rocks protect the tiny sand mounds from wind > erosion. Those piles of sand, > > in turn, keep the rocks from being pushed downwind and > from bunching up with one > > another. > > > > "You get this happening five, 10, 20 times then > you start to really move these > > things around," Pelletier said. "They can > move many times their diameter." > > > > The process is nearly the same with a cluster of > rocks. However, with a cluster > > of rocks, those in the front of the group shield their > counterparts in the > > middle or on the edges from the wind, Pelletier said. > > > > Because the middle and outer rocks are not directly > hit by the wind, the wind > > creates pits to the sides of those rocks. And so, > instead of rolling forward, > > the rocks roll to the side, not directly into the > wind, and the cluster begins > > to spread out. > > > > The research is published in the January issue of the > journal Geology. > > > > Lots of evidence > > > > Several pieces of evidence have come together to > support this idea of how rocks > > are organized along some areas of the Martian surface. > > > > For instance, when study team member Andrew Leier of > the University of Calgary > > in Canada was a graduate student at UA, he told > Pelletier about an experiment on > > the upwind migration of rocks that his thesis advisor > James Steidtmann of the > > University of Wyoming had conducted. > > > > Steidtmann used a wind tunnel to see how pebbles on > sand moved in the wind, > > revealing the rocks moved upwind and that over time, a > regular pattern emerged. > > > > Some time later, while attending a lecture that showed > pictures of uniformly > > organized rocks on Mars, Pelletier recalled his > conversations with Leier, and it > > all came together. > > > > Meanwhile, Leier had noticed a similar phenomenon when > observing sand dunes in > > Wyoming. Basically, loose pebbles and rocks there > seemed to spread away from > > each other in an almost organized fashion similar to > what is seen on the sandy > > surface of Mars. > > > > In the recent study, Pelletier tested out the idea > with three computer models, > > including models of air flow, sand erosion and > deposition, and rock movement. > > > > He compared the model results with the distances > between each rock and its > > nearest neighbor in Mars images taken by the Mars > Exploration Rover, Spirit. The > > patterns of the Martian rocks matched what the model > predicted. > > > > Pelletier plans to apply the same numerical models to > larger features on Mars > > such as sand dunes and wind-sculpted valleys and > ridges called "yardangs." > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 15 22:09:14 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:09:14 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rock and roll on Mars References: <833719.29995.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <016a01c97787$d0b3bba0$6043e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, Rob, You wrote > "The everyday bores the Einsteins, [the] Newtons..." Well, Newton was just a grad student of 23 or less when he had the "apple" moment (perhaps earlier; the story is apocryphal). How many people had seen something fall without ever worrying about "why?" Einstein figured out why streams and river meander when he was 16 and took a year off from high school to hike around. He didn't write it up for thirty years after, just as Newton did not return to the problem of gravitation until many years later. Here's the actual paper by Einstein (called the best thing he wrote): http://www.ucalgary.ca/~kmuldrew/river.html and a commentary http://www.searchanddiscovery.net/documents/Einstein/albert.htm I probably don't have to point out that the problem of "why do rivers meander?" is a problem very much like "how do Mars rocks move?" -- an everyday phenomenon seen by millions and inciting the curiosity of... one. Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCafferty" To: ; Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rock and roll on Mars This is a wonderful explanation. It is incredibly simple but almost certainly right. I have seen a similar effect on the windswept beaches of the Western Isles. OK, we're only talkin about a few feet but you get a similar effect (before the tide comes in and wipes it clean). Often I have seen trains of tiny particles behind a stone on the beach when the wind blows strongly but consistently. Pits do form in front of obstacles and while I've never seen a rock move forward (that's the only bit I have a problem with) into the wind, you do see trains behind them. While most of us would easily recognise Universal Gravitation, General Relativity and Quantum Electro Dynamics as genius, the minds that think of these things are far in advance of us "everyday" mortals. The everyday bores the Einsteins, Newtons and Yukawa's. It takes a special type of genius to spot the everyday stuff like this. The sort of thing we think we could have come up with if only we were a little smarter. Whether this turns out to be right or wrong as an explanation, I take my hat off (and I really do wear a hat, it's an Indiana Jones type one..how sad) to the proponent of this theory. Rob McC --- On Thu, 1/15/09, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com wrote: > From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rock and roll on Mars > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, cynapse at charter.net > Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 12:34 PM > Hi Darren/All, > > Over the years I have seen many photographs of desert > meteorite finds where the meteorite looked almost as if it > had hit and fractured on impact and only spreading around a > short way....but this mechanism would explain that much > better with the meteorite weathering and fracturing over > time and not on impact and then slowly spreading out over > time into an even pattern. > > Graham Ensor, UK. > > > ---- Darren Garrison wrote: > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479873,00.html > > > > Strange Rock Formations on Mars Explained > > > > Wednesday, January 14, 2009 > > > > Rocks on Mars are in some areas scattered in a > strangely uniform fashion, > > puzzling scientists for years. Now they've figured > it out. > > > > Researchers had thought the rocks were picked up and > carried downwind by extreme > > high-speed winds thought to occur on Mars in the past. > > > > Although Mars is a windy planet, its atmosphere is > very thin, so it would be > > difficult for the wind to carry the small rocks, which > range in size from a > > quarter to a softball, said Jon Pelletier, a > geoscientist at the University of > > Arizona in Tucson. > > > > Pelletier and his colleagues now think the rocks are > constantly on the move, > > rolling into the wind, not away from it, and creating > a natural feedback system > > that results in their tidy arrangement. > > > > Rock-n-roll > > > > Here's what they think happens: Wind removes loose > sand in front of the rocks, > > creating pits there and depositing that sand behind > the rocks, creating mounds. > > The rocks then roll forward into the pits, moving into > the wind. As long as the > > wind continues to blow, the process is repeated and > the rocks move forward. > > > > The rocks protect the tiny sand mounds from wind > erosion. Those piles of sand, > > in turn, keep the rocks from being pushed downwind and > from bunching up with one > > another. > > > > "You get this happening five, 10, 20 times then > you start to really move these > > things around," Pelletier said. "They can > move many times their diameter." > > > > The process is nearly the same with a cluster of > rocks. However, with a cluster > > of rocks, those in the front of the group shield their > counterparts in the > > middle or on the edges from the wind, Pelletier said. > > > > Because the middle and outer rocks are not directly > hit by the wind, the wind > > creates pits to the sides of those rocks. And so, > instead of rolling forward, > > the rocks roll to the side, not directly into the > wind, and the cluster begins > > to spread out. > > > > The research is published in the January issue of the > journal Geology. > > > > Lots of evidence > > > > Several pieces of evidence have come together to > support this idea of how rocks > > are organized along some areas of the Martian surface. > > > > For instance, when study team member Andrew Leier of > the University of Calgary > > in Canada was a graduate student at UA, he told > Pelletier about an experiment on > > the upwind migration of rocks that his thesis advisor > James Steidtmann of the > > University of Wyoming had conducted. > > > > Steidtmann used a wind tunnel to see how pebbles on > sand moved in the wind, > > revealing the rocks moved upwind and that over time, a > regular pattern emerged. > > > > Some time later, while attending a lecture that showed > pictures of uniformly > > organized rocks on Mars, Pelletier recalled his > conversations with Leier, and it > > all came together. > > > > Meanwhile, Leier had noticed a similar phenomenon when > observing sand dunes in > > Wyoming. Basically, loose pebbles and rocks there > seemed to spread away from > > each other in an almost organized fashion similar to > what is seen on the sandy > > surface of Mars. > > > > In the recent study, Pelletier tested out the idea > with three computer models, > > including models of air flow, sand erosion and > deposition, and rock movement. > > > > He compared the model results with the distances > between each rock and its > > nearest neighbor in Mars images taken by the Mars > Exploration Rover, Spirit. The > > patterns of the Martian rocks matched what the model > predicted. > > > > Pelletier plans to apply the same numerical models to > larger features on Mars > > such as sand dunes and wind-sculpted valleys and > ridges called "yardangs." > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From marsrox at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 23:56:16 2009 From: marsrox at gmail.com (Kevin Kichinka) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:56:16 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Four Things to Ponder Message-ID: <5bb98d570901152056y60b44565rfce44893979a1203@mail.gmail.com> Dear List Members: A couple of existing list-members from the "old days" probably remember me and know that I have lived in Costa Rica for more than a few years now. I mention this only because there was a 6.2 earthquake a week ago with the epicenter exactly 10 miles from my home. Quite an experience, and even after a week there were eight "replicas" (aftershocks) just today of up to 4.0. The ground as jello. Probably 35-40 deaths, 500 homes destroyed, lots of peripheral damage, a bad thing. Nothing to do with meteorites, but everything to do with promoting empathy for people just like yourself, and an adjunct to something I'll bring up in a sec. Here's two "Webshots" photo albums to be viewed as "slide show" (box on the right). If you've been here, memories will return, though now somewhat fractured. http://good-times.webshots.com/album/569580412diEsvw http://good-times.webshots.com/album/569641620XufkJR Secondly, my dear friend Steve Schoner noted an important anniversary, his amazing survival after he nearly left the living while laboring with respect to restore Clyde Tombaugh's (discoverer of Pluto) home. Rat shit almost did him in. Steve is one of the meteorite communities true warriors and a person of the highest integrity. "Man love" to you, Steve. Next, apparently Meteorite magazine is publishing in its next issue my take on the debacle that was the recovery of Carancas in Peru. Indigenous peoples and/or those lacking our "Western" educational and financial growth opportunities have a life difficult enough without.....well, read the story. "Meteorite" is worth dropping your dime on and this feature will be different than most. Finally, Space.com just put out an excellent video on the origins of the moon. Actually, they posit there first were two moons. I'll bet that you'll agree that the link below is worth 2 min and 24 seconds of your life. http://www.space.com/common/media/video/player.php?videoRef=071120TugMoon >From Nine Degrees North..... Kevin MARSROX at gmail.com From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jan 16 00:20:39 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 21:20:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Carancas In-Reply-To: <5bb98d570901152056y60b44565rfce44893979a1203@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <581450.37173.qm@web110614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I am sure this will be good. I love it Keven, when people who have never set foot in a place, in a situation, such as the Carancas fall, and then lecture the rest of us about the "Facts". I can't wait to read this cry-fest about how we either paid the people too much, or too litte, I guess had you gotten off your keyster, you would have paid them juuuuuuuuust right. Those of us who do, will always be criticised by those who don't. Thanks to those us who risked our time, money and lives to go to Peru, the meteorite was studied, pieces were saved from feces/urine filled crater, and the world took note of a truly newsworthy meteorite event. Several scientists on this list did not believe that this was actually a meteorite fall, until I returned and provided them samples which proved otherwise. Michael Farmer From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au Fri Jan 16 00:31:38 2009 From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:31:38 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Listoids - review of australian moveable heritage legislation - all oz listoids indeed any listoid should make a submission Message-ID: Notification - Review PMCH Act [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]Listoids There be a review of the Australian Moveable Heritage Legislation - see letter below This is particularly important for Listoids - Australian Listoids who may wish to export Australian meteorites and international Listoids who may wish to import Australian meteorites... I've put the two enclosed pdfs on my website and youse can view them at http://qmig.net/Fact%20sheet%20PMCH%20Review%20Jan09.pdf and http://qmig.net/PMCH%20discussion%20paper%20Jan09.pdf This is quite separate from some of the (I believe) repressive State Legislation - but it is a start point and any useful changes can be used as a start point to lobby against the relevant State Legislation Personally - I believe that export of meteorite specimens worth under $15000 should be allowed in much the same way that exxport of gold nuggets under this amount is allowed - except perhaps for very scientifically significant specimens or planetaries I also believe that the long winded export application requirements should be devolved to the State Museums as delegates to streamline the process The endstate of the current legislation has meant that as Martin Altmann has said - that Australia is now a backwater in terms of research and that only 7 new finds have been submitted to metsoc in the last 10 years The current legislation has also led to a culture of secrecy and not reporting finds or encouraged another subculture of illegal export - hardly the intent of the original proponents If you care about our small meteorite community and if you still wish to add Australian meteorites to your collection - I urge you to make a submission Cheers letter anouncing the reviw below... I am writing to advise that on 15 January 2009, the Hon Peter Garrett AM, MP, Minister for the Environment, Heritage and the Arts announced the review of the Protection of Movable Cultural Heritage Act 1986 (PMCH Act) and the Protection of Movable Cultural Heritage Regulations 1987 (PMCH Regulations). The Department of the Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts is undertaking the review in consultation with the National Cultural Heritage Committee. An important part of that review process is consultation with and input from key stakeholders. Your input to the review of the PMCH Act and the PMCH Regulations is invited. We would appreciate your comments on the issues raised in the attached discussion paper, and any other matters of concern in regard to the operation of the PMCH Act and the PMCH Regulations. Please note that the closing date for submissions is 6 March 2009. It is anticipated that the review will be completed by 31 May 2009. A fact sheet on the review is also attached for your information. Further information on the review process, as well as a link to download additional copies of the discussion paper, is available on the website at: www.arts.gov.au/public_consultation. Should you require a copy of the discussion paper in rich text format, or a printed hard copy, please either reply to this email or call the review Secretariat on 1800 115 771. If you have any questions about the review please contact Ms Caroline Greenway, Director, Cultural Property Section, Collections Branch on the above number or email pmchreview at environment.gov.au. Yours sincerely Marion Marion Garratt Secretariat Review of the PMCH Legislation 16 January 2009 From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Fri Jan 16 01:35:26 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 00:35:26 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Asteroids, Comets, and 536 AD Message-ID: <01f701c977a4$9e587930$6043e146@ATARIENGINE> Hi, to all parties in the wrangle, It's been fascinating, but it's wandered a long way from 536 AD (or 534 or 537, whenever). Some points that got lost along the way: 1. We have no clear definition or concept of what exact differences there may be, if any, between "comets" and some "asteroids." We used to think that comets were majority ices but recovered cometary particles are majority silicates. There are Main Belt comets in the "Asteroid" Zone, and NEA's occasionally develop a coma. There are all the kinds of object we know about, and then there are the kinds of object we don't know about. In a word, we are still too ignorant to argue about one versus the other as if we were certain. 2. The highest danger (and the smallest likelihood) is the first-time in-coming long-period comet, not something we could do much about, so it's useless to argue about them. In this department, our best defense is feel lucky and keep whistling. 3. The original cometary hypothesis for specifically the 534-545 AD events is not for the cases that have been argued for and against, here on the list and in the academic pissing contests, but for a "swarm" of cometary objects resulting from the breakup of a larger body. This hypothesis was put forth in the 1970's by Napier and Clube, who wrote two very bad books about the mechanism they proposed. (Some scientists should not try to write "pop science" books. Good idea -- bad books.) What they proposed was that every 50,000 or 100,000 years (or million years; take your pick) some large fresh cometary body got perturbed into the inner solar system where, in its new "Apollo-like" orbit, it underwent rapid breakup from the warming and collisions, resulting in a large number of "asteroidal" and "cometary" fragments that continued the "cascade" breakup, creating a short but violent era in which the inner solar system is turned into a shooting gallery. In other words, instead of a low, steady rate of impacts, we would exposed to long peaceful eras punctuated by short stretches like the last round of the big fight in a Rocky movie. We would become accustomed for a long time to this abnormally low rate of impacts (the usual odd meteoroid) and then be terrified by a brief 100-fold increase in such events (or maybe 1000-fold). So, scribes from the "unlearned" eras with breakup swarms would draw celestial maps full of dragonoid portents and fiery signs in the skies by night and day, and the rational scholars of more peaceful times would hypothesize an orderly "clockwork" universe. (Oddly enough, just what we have in our own historic record...) 4. Abbott finds rock vapor spherules and marine microfossils in the ice as proof of impact. Larson find sulfates in the ice which he thinks are proof of major volcanic events. Both find evidence of a world- wide event that probably took place in the tropics. The rocks underlying most shallow coastal seas in the tropics are carbonates and sulfates; an impact there would produce ALL THREE markers. There are a slew of papers on atmospheric sulfate release in destructive amounts from impacts, particularly as relates to Chicxulub and the devastating acid rains that followed it, if you want to follow this up. On the other hand, a marine caldera explosion would also account for the markers. But such a volcanic event only 1500 years ago would leave far more evidence behind than would a shallow-water impact crater. Neither set of findings proves or dis-proves either hypothesis at this point. Another point is that if the ice retains a record of rock vapor spherules, marine microfossils, and sulfates, where is the ash? Ice core ash has been recovered from presumably smaller volcanic events that were more ancient, like Thera. Just on the general run of evidence, it seems to me that evidence for impact just continues to pile up, however slowly, but additional evidence for the alternative hypotheses remains elusive. Where was that huge volcano? The problem for the volcano explanation is that the evidence keeps suggesting a bigger and bigger event, requiring of course a bigger volcano. Another problem is that large volcanic events are notoriously hard to date with any precision (plus or minus a century), even if you can find the evidence. 5. On the other hand, the "comet-swarm" hypothesis, being an intermittent cause for brief episodes of high impact rates, makes that whole hypothesis harder to prove (or dis-prove either). There are some persuasive outside arguments for the Napier-Clube (and later Duncan Steele) cometary debris mechanism: the Zodiacal Light. The Zodiacal dust is rapidly dispersed. Without regular replenishment, it would be gone in short order. We see no source of replenishment that would account for more than a few percent of what is needed, yet the dust persists. The breakup of a comet getting trapped in the inner system every now and then would account for it. As usual, there are arguments about how much Zodiacal dust there is, arguments about how fast it is dispersed, arguments about how much is contributed by known bodies, and so forth. It's a difficult and developing field of research. Infrared studies show dust bands that are associated with young asteroidal families, the biggest obvious source of dust, but they only account for a minor fraction of the dust, suggesting that the rest is from somewhere (or something) else. 6. It always makes me want to grind my teeth when someone speaks of a search strategy and says 1000 objects of an "expected" 1100 have been found. Yes, I understand the assumptions on which such estimates are made, often correctly, but when you're talking about "proof," a search is finished when you search until you don't find any more. Until then, you don't know, you only assume. When you've got all them rocks (or iceballs) rounded up and there's a red plastic tag in every ear, let me know... Sterling K. Webb From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Fri Jan 16 04:49:08 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:49:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [meteorite-list] the new fall and the big fireball/ satellite pasing at the same time. Message-ID: <613438.39551.qm@web62005.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hi list the?fireball seen by all Morocco that i sad it's over 40000 km have an explanation, a satellite debris was passing at the same time ?to crash , that was the 21 of December, the?Moroccans hunter says its the 20 December?when there was a fall in journal al massaa. so i get from a doctor scientist in meteorite this information. http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/3201301964/ ________________________________________________ Object Description: Type: Delta II Stage 2 Rocket Body Int'l Designation: 2008 054B Launched: 25 OCT 2008 @ 02:28 UTC Site: Vandenberg Air Force Base SLC-2W Mission: COSMO 3 Reentry Prediction: Predicted Reentry Time: 21 DEC 2008 @ 19:32 UTC ? 65 minutes Prediction Epoch: 21 DEC 2008 @ 15:12:57.533 UTC Prediction Ground Track: http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/3201301964/ __________________________________________________________________ so what we have heard in the beach of agadir and eljadida is a satellite and what was found in tichka come from a fall/find, back to other news this meteorite preliminary analysis is h4/5 an it's very fresh and doesn't look like any fall i have seen. so? like i sad before i will wait for analysis and i had refuse to sell it before as i was waiting for more information but coming to other fact that the hunter sad that they can make photo of the crater and the place where it has been found, this may be explain why its weathered.so we need a team at tichka to confirm the crater and to make a datation with witnesses. so far i m confused ,?but i report the fact of what i have heard or read. so till now i confirm nothing the same a before. thanks? aziz ?habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Fri Jan 16 05:02:15 2009 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 10:02:15 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there?/Pillinger In-Reply-To: <8CB4561613D0FC2-E9C-369@webmail-db19.sysops.aol.com> References: <20090115191539.YIEWP.370565.root@web07-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> <8CB4561613D0FC2-E9C-369@webmail-db19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C494FAA07@gamma.ssl.atw> Hi Doug, Yes I have great respect for Dr Pillinger, and we certainly need more personalities in this area like him. A few more British mars missions (that worked) would also help with our national enthusiasm for space, but the country is practically bankrupt at the moment so I can't see us having a major UK funded mars mission anytime soon! However we are still major partners with the European space Agency, (and of course work with Nasa etc), and the UK actually has quite a large Space technology capability, mainly in the commercial/small satellite area, most of the major satellites in orbit have British technology/expertise in them, many are even built here, (I was lucky enough to see the SOHO Space mission being built/tested at Portsmouth (just down the road from) me something I will remember for a long time, an amazing machine, and it's still going). I suspect greater cooperation between the European space agency and NASA will ultimately simply have to happen if we are to make great strides in space exploration, I doubt the US will ever put men/women back on the moon or mars without multinational cooperation it would cost far too much to stomach words are easy but cash is less forthcoming, why should we all go it alone anyway? Best, Mark Ford UK -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of mexicodoug at aim.com Sent: 15 January 2009 19:49 To: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Mark Ford Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there?/Pillinger Hello Graham, Thanks for the kind words on Dr. Pillinger. I am sure he has faced very difficult challenges throughout his career, considering the dependence in the UK on politicians and external agencies for the success of such forward looking endeavors. It is sad to learn about his situation with MS and I hope even The Sun is kind enough to be a little more discreet in its opportunism and spinning of yarns that tie him to their half-truthed propaganda. From the national academy of science of the UK, here were Dr. Pillinger's wishes for Christmas in 2007, in his own words: A copy of Werner von Braun's book "the Mars project". (How the rocket pioneer proposed to put humans on Mars, written the 1940/50s). I could get this Tickets to Jeff Wayne's musical "War of the Worlds" at O2 on December 22. This is based on H.G Wells book (still the best ever science fiction story) and although Wayne's is a musical he has kept the story line as HG wrote it, not transported it to USA (even though Jeff is an American). His production is getting more and more adventurous and I would love to see it. Tickets are all sold out so not much hope unless I brazenly ring up jeff wayne and invite myself. (I have met him a couple of times and interviewed him for THES). Now comes the real wishful thinking. I would like the UK government to commit to a real involvement in manned space activities starting20with a return to the moon to create a permanent base. I was involved in the Apollo programme and know just how much it inspired the World. I had always believed the UK would be amongst the first on the Moon (see book Journey into Space by Charles Chilton). The Nasa administrator, Mike Griffin, is here in UK at the moment seeking UK to join NASA in a full partnership. He said at a meeting last night he wants a full partnership not UK to turn up in 2020 saying they would now like a British astronaut on a flight. In my dreams we commit now to sharing in this adventure and it goes ahead in time for Michael Foale (i.e. someone with joint UK/US citizenship) is first Commander of the permanent base on the Moon. If I can only have only one present I'll have the last one. NB Even I am not so unrealistic as to believe asking the UK government to pay for a Beagle 3 would get me anywhere except committed to an Institution for the insane. Best health, Doug -----Original Message----- From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; mexicodoug at aim.com; mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 1:15 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there?/Pillinger Hi All, The Sun has always had a reputation for twisting the truth like this....but as for Colin Pillinger. I have met him several times and he is dedicated to inspiring youngsters to g et involved with space and science...his early work involved the first studies of Allende in those early days. He has a knack of turning around the negative publicity and quirky press coverage that the press generates in his/science's favour, exploiting it in his own way to promote public understanding. Last time I saw him he invited me down to PSSRI to look around the latest projects and see their new equipment for probing the latest space rocks and Stardust material , etc and was promoting his latest book "Space is a Funny Place" in which has used his lifelong collection of space press coverage and cartoons to illustrate many serious aspects of science...very entertaining. I have signed copy sitting alongside my meteorite books. see here.. http://colinpillinger.com/barnstormpr.co.uk/books.htm Unfortunately he is slowly succumbing to MS and is fighting hard to continue promoting the new technologies created for the Beagle project both back in Space and here on earth in portable medical applications for the third world. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article545436.ece Just regretting not making time for Tucson this year. Hope everyone else out there has a great time...perhaps next year when my pound might buy a bit more!! I live in hope. Graham Ensor, UK ---- mexicodoug at aim.com wrote: > Hi Mark and Darren, Oh just another case of what happens when the scientific peer-review proc ess is omitted and the overall press tries to pick it up without quoting their sources very noticeably or being purposefully sly with their grammar to entertainingly dupe readers waiting in line at Tesco and Wal-Mart. The conclusions regarding methane are twisted by one of the most entertaining and comical UFO inspiring tabloid 'newspapers' on the planet, none other than the National Inquirer's big brother, Britain's "THE SUN". Always loved that name! The author is none other than the Sun Spaceman who must have a blast at his job! Below's the original article which is much more entertaining. I sense a little sarcasm towards Expert Colin Pillinger, head of the "ill-fated Beagle 2" - just look at his picture. :-) The other British Space Expert (presented as "Britain's Top Space Expert") quoted is Nick Pope, former head of Britian's government sponsored "UFO program". http://www.nickpope.net/biography.htm Best Health, Doug http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2133475.ece By PAUL SUTHERLAND Sun Spaceman Published: Today ALIEN microbes living just below the Martian soil are responsible for a haze of methane around the Red Planet, Nasa scientists believe. The gas, belched in vast quantities in our world by cows, was detected by orbiting spacecraft and from Earth using giant telescopes. Discovery ... gas around Mars Nasa are today expected to confirm its presence during a briefing at their Washington HQ. And the find20is seen as exciting new evidence that Martian microbes are still alive today. To read more of our exclusive UFO stories click here. Some scientists reckon methane is also produced by volcanic processes. But there are NO known active volcanoes on Mars. Furthermore, Nasa has found the gas in the same regions as clouds of water vapour, the vital ?drink? needed to support life. Mission ... probe on the surface of Mars Experts speculate that the methane is being emitted as a waste product by organisms called methanogens living in water beneath underground ice. And they would have to be alive today because the methane would otherwise have been lost from the Martian atmosphere. What a scoop ... Phoenix lander dug up chunks of ice last year John Murray ? a member of the Mars Express European space probe team ? believes the mini-Martians may be in a form of suspended animation and could even be REVIVED. He has found overwhelming evidence of a vast frozen ocean beneath the dust near the Martian equator where simple life could have thrived as microbes. Today?s briefing will feature a star panel of Mars experts headed by Michael Meyer, chief scientist for Nasa?s Mars programme. UK Mars expert Professor Colin Pillinger believes=2 0the methane can only point to the presence of life on the planet. His ill-fated Beagle 2 probe was carrying a laboratory that would have lo oked directly for such signs of life when it crashed on Christmas Day 2003. Prof Pillinger told The Sun last night: ?Methane is a product of biology. For methane to be in Mars? atmosphere, there has to be a replenishable source. ?The most obvious source of methane is organisms. So if you find methane in an atmosphere, you can suspect there is life. ?It?s not proof, but it makes it worth a much closer look.? Nasa?s findings confirm studies by Europe?s Mars Express probe, which has been orbiting the planet for five years and also reported signs of methane in 2004. Britain?s top space expert Nick Pope last night hailed the new evidence of life as ?the most important discovery of all time?. He said: ?What could be more profound than to know it?s not just us out there? Expert ... Colin Pillinger "We?ve really only scratched the surface ? it?s an absolute certainty that there is life out there and we are not alone. ?If there is life on Mars then the logical conclusion is that there must be life elsewhere too. ?If it?s happened here on Earth, then why shouldn?t it happen anywhere? The implication is this is a20universal law. ?Mars is very similar to Earth. It?s about the same size, it?s a rocky inner planet. ?Most scientists believe it probably has l iquid water which is almost universally agreed as the pre-requisite for life. I am certain there is other life in the Universe and, most likely, intelligent life.? The Red Planet has gripped the public imagination for more than a century as a possible home for aliens. But life could not survive on its surface because, unlike the Earth, Mars has no magnetic shield to protect it against deadly sun radiation. The planet resembles our own in many ways. It is made of rock, it has an atmosphere and weather systems. Although much smaller with a diameter of around 4,222 miles, Mars? day is just 40 minutes longer than ours and its tilted axis gives it seasons. Water has been found in the form of buried ice and scientists believe that two billion years ago, Mars was covered with liquid oceans. Proof that water is still on Mars came in 2007 when Mars Express used ground-piercing radar to study the region around the planet?s South Pole. Nasa?s latest lander Phoenix dug up chunks of Martian ice last year. It swiftly evaporated into the thin atmosphere. Nasa have controversially hit the headlines before for claiming evidence for Martians. In 1996, they said they had discovered fossilised organisms i n a meteorite from the planet. But other scientists were sceptical. Today?s conference will be broadcast live online by NASA TV (www.nasa.gov/ntv) at 7pm. ---- -Original Message----- From: Mark Ford To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? >Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also >produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules >this possibility out. So by that somewhat 'skewed logic' (imho) there's also life on Jupiter, the moon, Titan, at least one exoplanet and Venus, oh or could it perchance be that it is volcanic/geologic in origin, and we just haven't located the source yet - but that doesn't grab the head lines I guess!! Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: 15 January 2009 15:36 To: meteorite list Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24917099-401,00.html Methane discovery suggests presence of life on Mars, say Nasa scientists NASA scientists are expected to announce they may have proof there is life on Mars. The scientists suspect alien microbes are alive and kicking just below the soil of the big planet, after=2 0large quantities of what is believed to be the organisms' waste products were detected. The organisms - called methanogens - are suspected to have been living in water beneath underground ice, wh ere they are disgorging tonnes and tonnes of methane. On Earth, methane is produced in massive quantities by animals such as cows, sheep and goats. Giant telescopes from Earth and NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have spotted a haze of the gas surrounding Mars, and according to some scientists this can only point to the presence of life on Mars. "Methane is a product of biology," UK Mars expert Professor Colin Pillinger told UK tabloid The Sun last night. "For methane to be in Mars' atmosphere, there has to be a replenishable source. "The most obvious source of methane is organisms, so if you find methane in an atmosphere, you can suspect there is life. "It's not proof, but it makes it worth a much closer look." "What could be more profound than to know it's not just us out there? "We've really only scratched the surface - it's an absolute certainty that there is life out there and we are not alone. "If there is life on Mars then the logical conclusion is that there must be life elsewhere too." Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules this possibility out. Methane plu mes are very short-lived, it is chemically broken down by sunlight within a year. Something is replacing the methane, and quickly. The fascination with the idea that Mars harbours life has perv aded popular culture for over a century. The public obsession with Martians began way back in 1877 when astronomer Giovanni Sciaparelli reported observations of large canali - meaning "channels" - on Mars, which he speculated must have been dug by an intelligent race, although this proved mistaken. H.G. Wells classic 1898 novel of a Martian invasion of Earth War of the Worlds has been turned into two big budget Hollywood films and when staged as 1938 radio play by Orson Wells caused reportedly caused panic when some of the audience mistook it for a real newscast. Director Tim Burton reimagined the scenario with playfully malignant extraterrestrials in his blackly comic 1996 film Mars Attacks. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Ford To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? >Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also >produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules >this possibility out. So by that somewhat 'skewed logic' (imho) there's also life on Jupiter, the moon, Titan, at least one exoplanet and Venus, oh or could it perchance b e that it is volcanic/geologic in origin, and we just haven't located the source yet - but that doesn't grab the head lines I guess!! Best, Mark -----Origin al Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Darren Garrison Sent: 15 January 2009 15:36 To: meteorite list Subject: [meteorite-list] Is there smelly life out there? http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24917099-401,00.html Methane discovery suggests presence of life on Mars, say Nasa scientists NASA scientists are expected to announce they may have proof there is life on Mars. The scientists suspect alien microbes are alive and kicking just below the soil of the big planet, after large quantities of what is believed to be the organisms' waste products were detected. The organisms - called methanogens - are suspected to have been living in water beneath underground ice, where they are disgorging tonnes and tonnes of methane. On Earth, methane is produced in massive quantities by animals such as cows, sheep and goats. Giant telescopes from Earth and NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter have spotted a haze of the gas surrounding Mars, and according to some scientists this can only point to the presence of life on Mars. "Methane is a product of biology," UK Mars expert Professor Colin Pillinger told UK tabloid The Sun last night. "For methane to be in Mars' atmosp here, there has to be a replenishable source. "The most obvious source of methane is organisms, so if you find methane in an atmosphere, you can suspect there is life. "It 's not proof, but it makes it worth a much closer look." "What could be more profound than to know it's not just us out there? "We've really only scratched the surface - it's an absolute certainty that there is life out there and we are not alone. "If there is life on Mars then the logical conclusion is that there must be life elsewhere too." Although there is a consensus among some scientists that methane is also produced by volcanic processes, the lack of any active volcanoes on Mars rules this possibility out. Methane plumes are very short-lived, it is chemically broken down by sunlight within a year. Something is replacing the methane, and quickly. The fascination with the idea that Mars harbours life has pervaded popular culture for over a century. The public obsession with Martians began way back in 1877 when astronomer Giovanni Sciaparelli reported observations of large canali - meaning "channels" - on Mars, which he speculated must have been dug by an intelligent race, although this proved mistaken. H.G. Wells classic 1898 novel of a Martian invasion of Earth War of the Worlds has been turned into two big budget Hollywood films and when staged as 1938 radio play by Orson Wells caused reportedly caused panic when some of the audience mistook it for a real newscast. Director Tim Burton reimagined the scenario with playfully malignant extraterrestrials in his blackly comic 1996 film Mars Attacks. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. 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