From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Wed Jul 1 00:19:09 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 00:19:09 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 1, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_1_2009.html __________________________ **************Dell Laptops: Huge Savings on Popular Laptops ? Deals starting at $399(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222883570x1201497211/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D0) From meteoritekid at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 00:03:00 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:03:00 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinions on an oddball meteorite I cut open In-Reply-To: <4A4AC86E.7050503@meteoritesusa.com> References: <93aaac890906301758q5697a414o880a9d5f0efef488@mail.gmail.com> <4A4AC86E.7050503@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890906302103g8ec89bdr5ea765c19b7bfebd@mail.gmail.com> >Eric wrote: > The term "very low" when referring to magnetism in a stone meteorite is > "very subjective" isn't it? Is there a scale to go by, or industry standard > for strength of magnetism? I've had stone material that a super strong and > very large neo magnet would barely stick to. Everything's relative. It can be hard to judge L vs LL and sometimes H vs L, but I would question the judgement of one who mistook an LL for an H or vice-versa. Also, given the fact that the stone in question appears to have experienced little-to-no internal oxidation, and very little metal appears on the cut surface, again, I would suggest an L or LL (probably LL) classification. You can attempt to judge a meteorite's class by magnetic susceptibility, but I find that weathering changes these results and makes the method rather unreliable, especially as there is a wide overlap between the amount of metal in LL's and L's, as well as between L's and H's. Add weathering to this system and you just wind up with inaccuracies. > Also wouldn't small slices such as this piece and others be hard to > determine types due to the small mass. Small meteorites are just as easy to classify as large ones, on principle - to an extent. So long as you have enough for a thin section, and maybe for analyzing isotopes, an analysis is as easy as any other, at least insofar as you don't need more material to classify a meteorite. But you seem to be pointing towards asking whether or not the classification would be accurate, due to heterogeneous breccias - see below. >I mean, a small 10 gram stone > wouldn't be completely representative of an entire mass if that mass is > unknown would it? You're addressing a different issue, and one that is...an impossible one to address. What if every other meteorite ever found weren't a representative sample of the body from whence it came? Look at the paired Dhofar lunars that were only tied together when one stone chanced to have all three lithologies present, or Seymchan - IIE vs pallasite. Chergach IMB vs plain ordinary chondrite, and Park Forest - ordinary L6 vs L-IMB. You work with what you have. If it's small, you classify what you've got and hope more turns up. But you're talking about NWA, so in all likelihood, 5kg already has come overseas, and it was classified six months ago. But that's science. If evidence comes forth and proves conclusively that this stone is a clast out of an L4, then it will be deemed paired. Until the stone is found that can prove that, it's a distinct meteorite. > I've seen and cut some chondrites with dual lithologies > but if I cut those stones in half down the separation line of the mineral > types, how would you know what type it is? It would be the type you were left with, because that would be the composition of the meteorite that was being analyzed. You can only analyze what you have to work with... Regards, Jason > Regards, > Eric > > > > Jason Utas wrote: >> >> Hola, >> Check out the last picture - there's a white chondrule clearly visible >> in the upper right/center of the photo. >> Also note the dark chondrule (large, but fuzzy) at the bottom edge of >> the slice, a tad to the left of center. >> I'd go with LL6; it has a few chondrules, and from what I understand, >> the type seven designation is reserved for primitive achondrites. ?Of >> course, it's hard to gauge L vs LL, but you did say that the magnetism >> was "very low." >> Regards, >> Jason >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Galactic Stone & >> Ironworks wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi Listees! >>> >>> I'd like some opinions on a meteorite I cut open yesterday. ?It's an >>> oddball I've had in my box of NWA for some time - awaiting a date with >>> the saw. ?It exhibits a very low magnetism and it has a grey matrix >>> almost entirely devoid of chondrules - although there does appear to >>> be some remnant chondrule structures. ?I'm hoping it might be some >>> kind of achondrite, but the magnetism mostly rules that out. ?Is it >>> some uncommon type like an L7? ?Or is it just something common that I >>> have not seen before? >>> >>> The exterior has a wind polished desert varnish on it and there >>> doesn't appear to be any fusion crust to speak of - although there are >>> a few scattered tiny patches of black on it. ?The stone weighs 16 >>> grams. ?I only made 2 cuts - I cut one corner off to expose the matrix >>> (endcut) and I made one thin slice. ? The rest of the stone is intact. >>> >>> Here are some photo links - >>> >>> >>> http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/Anomalous/new-odd-cut/odd-new-1.jpg >>> >>> >>> http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/Anomalous/new-odd-cut/odd-new-2.jpg >>> >>> >>> http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/Anomalous/new-odd-cut/odd-new-3.jpg >>> >>> Any opinions are welcomed. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> MikeG >>> >>> -- >>> ......................................................... >>> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >>> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >>> .......................................................... >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > From meteoritekid at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 03:56:16 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 00:56:16 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: First Ebay Auction - NWA 1956 H5 Split Individual Message-ID: <93aaac890907010056h19c75f1ch3bbeae666e0f370f@mail.gmail.com> Hello All, I've decided to try my hand at selling some space rocks on ebay - as this is my first auction, I would appreciate any feedback that the list (collectors, dealers, anyone) might have to offer, on any aspect of the auction. And, I might add - it's a pretty nice stone, so I'd appreciate any interest in the form of a bid or two ;) Have a look! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230353073435 Thanks, Jason Utas From claudiu at tanaselia.ro Wed Jul 1 04:05:53 2009 From: claudiu at tanaselia.ro (Claudiu Tanaselia) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:05:53 +0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: AD. Nasa stuff In-Reply-To: References: <20090630142710.7D32T.123477.imail@fed1rmwml39> Message-ID: No connection to this story, right? http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P1-70597735.html Just kidding. (Hopefully). > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:27 PM, wrote: >> Sorry, I forgot the link. >> http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/meteoritemax_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZ >> >> Carl >>> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:55:39 -0700 >>> From: >>> To: meteoritelist >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD. Nasa stuff >>> >>> List, >>> I have a bunch of real stuff from NASA on eBay ending later today. Please have a look. Thanks >>> >>> Carl Esparza >>> IMCA 5829 >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 1 08:26:42 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 05:26:42 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: First Ebay Auction - NWA 1956 H5 Split Individual Message-ID: Hi Jason, This really has nothing to do with your ebay auction but last year we visited and saw your picture at the Griffith Observatory's meteorite collection. When we got back home I put on the movie, TOBOR THE GREAT (1954), which featured the front of the Griffith. Still looked recognizable even after over 50 years. Too bad you aren't selling NWA 1954 instead for a somewhat vague tie-in. Carl _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 1 08:39:57 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 05:39:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake Message-ID: I love that movie! When I was a kid I remember rooting for the ants! No, that wasn't DeForest Kelly. It's been awhile since I saw it but I believe that was Leonard Nimoy. Carl >Them! had a stellar performance by a young DeForest Kelley. I don't >think it was credited under that name though. On 6/30/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > For all the ant "lovers," I recommend the 1954 > movie "THEM!" starring the venerable British > actor Edmond Gwenn (b. 1877, first movie 1916) > with early-career performances by James Whitmore, > James Arness, Fess Parker and a host of character > actors. > > And of course, hordes of very, very large ants. > _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 From stm at bellsouth.net Wed Jul 1 09:24:29 2009 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:24:29 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F897DF8BF4B40869456F14F29930DB0@Platinum2> Leonard Nimoy was in "Them!". DeForest was in "Night of the Lupus" with the giant rabbits... Who could forget that masterpiece! I think that is what you all are remembering. Giant ants, giant rabbits -- it was the "Radiation (or the occasional meteorite) made this harmless thing giant and crave human blood" era of movie-making. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl 's" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake I love that movie! When I was a kid I remember rooting for the ants! No, that wasn't DeForest Kelly. It's been awhile since I saw it but I believe that was Leonard Nimoy. Carl >Them! had a stellar performance by a young DeForest Kelley. I don't >think it was credited under that name though. On 6/30/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > For all the ant "lovers," I recommend the 1954 > movie "THEM!" starring the venerable British > actor Edmond Gwenn (b. 1877, first movie 1916) > with early-career performances by James Whitmore, > James Arness, Fess Parker and a host of character > actors. > > And of course, hordes of very, very large ants. > _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Wed Jul 1 10:36:41 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:36:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake Message-ID: What kid would not like a movie with not only Mr. Spock in it, but also Dan'l Boone and Matt Dillon! (Not to mention the outsized ants!) For cheesy Insect Fear movies, it's hard to beat the Japanese though, I was always partial to Mothra. Phil Whitmer From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jul 1 12:38:43 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:38:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event In-Reply-To: <46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den> References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den> Message-ID: http://www.movieweb.com/news/NEn3LrswY8Zyro From tricottetcoll at live.com Wed Jul 1 11:39:53 2009 From: tricottetcoll at live.com (The Tricottet Collection) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:39:53 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending soon (AML sale) Message-ID: Dear list members, I have 3 meteorite auctions ending in 2 days: Henbury with Huss number and AML label and 2 full slices (Thuathe and Monze) Link -> http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/5166arnaud_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZ Thank you, ArnaudM _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jul 1 12:12:55 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:12:55 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event Message-ID: It is nice to see that the National Guard can shoot down meteorites with shoulder held bazookas. I feel safer now! Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************Dell Laptops: Huge Savings on Popular Laptops ? Deals starting at $399(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222883570x1201497211/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D0) From lgarvie at asu.edu Wed Jul 1 12:33:43 2009 From: lgarvie at asu.edu (Laurence Garvie) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 09:33:43 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Formic acid in meteorites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: High levels of formic acid were also found in the Antarctic meteorite EET96029. You can download the pdf at www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2004/pdf/1888.pdf Laurence CMS ASU From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 12:55:16 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:55:16 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinions on an oddball meteorite I cut open In-Reply-To: <93aaac890906301758q5697a414o880a9d5f0efef488@mail.gmail.com> References: <93aaac890906301758q5697a414o880a9d5f0efef488@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jason, Eric and List! I want to classify promising meteorites in the hopes of adding something to science - no matter how small that contribution might seem. Plus, I haven't done it yet, so I am eager to "break the ice" and get a classification under my belt. I have a box of whole stones and a few fragments (like this one) that I have culled out of my bulk lots over the last 2 years. These are stones that have some odd aspect to them - strange appearance, very low magnetism, chondrule-rich, oriented, etc. Now that I have a saw, I am windowing these stones. Thus far, most have been disappointingly common on the inside with the typical weathered H-chondrite matrix. But this one was unexpected. I expected it to be a meteorwrong, or to have a weathered interior. I was surprised to see an apparently fresh (or semi-fresh) matrix with extremely tiny metal flecks (more like pinpoints) and some remnant chondrules that look re-crystallized or heat metamorphosed. I saw a photo of an L7 that looks similar to this matrix, but the similarity is solely aesthetic I am sure. When I saw "very low magnetism", I mean this - I have a N48 rare earth magnet cylinder that is pretty good sized. (1 inch tall and about .75 inch diameter). It's very strong and common H chondrites will leap to it. I have other small meteorites that are the same size as this oddball stone, and they leap to the magnet and stick strongly. This meteorite barely sticks at all. The meteorite will attract to the magnet, but if I pick the magnet up the meteorite will fall off - the attraction is not strong enough for the meteorite to remain stuck. Out of all the UNWA stones I have in my oddball box, this one shows the least attraction. I wish I had some real objective method to quantify the magnetic attraction, but this arbitrary description is the best I can do. As far as classifying small stones - the latest MAPS Met Bulletin in print shows the results of the last Chinese Antarctic expedition. One classified specimen is a single chondrule. Several American Antarctic finds are less than 1 gram. (from previous bulletins). I think if we, as collectors, dismiss promising stones because of their small size, we run the risk of missing rare types that science could benefit from. As long as a flood of tiny pointless classifications doesn't paralyze the system, I don't see the harm in classifying specimens similar to this. AFAIK, many labs are still accepting material like this. Since I am new to cutting open stones, I was wondering if a matrix like this is more common than I realized. I have seen some pretty and interesting results from cutting, but this is the only one that didn't immediately scream "H chondrite". I have another stone with a beautiful matrix that resembles marbled ice cream with chondrules and metal fleck, but despite it's beauty, I am relatively certain it is on OC. It's a keeper just the same. If anyone is interested in seeing a slice of this grey oddball UNWA, I will send one for study - if someone with a petrographic microscope and experience can make a more specific determination on what this stone might be. Contact me offlist if interested. Best regards and thanks for the feedback, MikeG On 6/30/09, Jason Utas wrote: > Hola, > Check out the last picture - there's a white chondrule clearly visible > in the upper right/center of the photo. > Also note the dark chondrule (large, but fuzzy) at the bottom edge of > the slice, a tad to the left of center. > I'd go with LL6; it has a few chondrules, and from what I understand, > the type seven designation is reserved for primitive achondrites. Of > course, it's hard to gauge L vs LL, but you did say that the magnetism > was "very low." > Regards, > Jason > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Galactic Stone & > Ironworks wrote: >> Hi Listees! >> >> I'd like some opinions on a meteorite I cut open yesterday. It's an >> oddball I've had in my box of NWA for some time - awaiting a date with >> the saw. It exhibits a very low magnetism and it has a grey matrix >> almost entirely devoid of chondrules - although there does appear to >> be some remnant chondrule structures. I'm hoping it might be some >> kind of achondrite, but the magnetism mostly rules that out. Is it >> some uncommon type like an L7? Or is it just something common that I >> have not seen before? >> >> The exterior has a wind polished desert varnish on it and there >> doesn't appear to be any fusion crust to speak of - although there are >> a few scattered tiny patches of black on it. The stone weighs 16 >> grams. I only made 2 cuts - I cut one corner off to expose the matrix >> (endcut) and I made one thin slice. The rest of the stone is intact. >> >> Here are some photo links - >> >> http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/Anomalous/new-odd-cut/odd-new-1.jpg >> >> http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/Anomalous/new-odd-cut/odd-new-2.jpg >> >> http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/Anomalous/new-odd-cut/odd-new-3.jpg >> >> Any opinions are welcomed. >> >> Best regards, >> >> MikeG >> >> -- >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Wed Jul 1 13:03:26 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:03:26 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5c0bc2684399dc2cb86f859061429b7c.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> If Kleopatra were to hit the Earth (at least that is what I get out of the main page), we would be in big trouble. For those of you who do not remember, 216 Kleopatra, thanks to radar observations, looks very much like a big dog bone, 220 kilometers long and 100 kilometers across. Larry > It is nice to see that the National Guard can shoot down meteorites with > shoulder held bazookas. I feel safer now! > > Steve Arnold > of "Meteorite Men" > > **************Dell Laptops: Huge Savings on Popular Laptops ??? Deals > starting at > $399(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222883570x1201497211/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D0) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 1 13:17:35 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:17:35 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event In-Reply-To: References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den> Message-ID: In this one, I'm cheering for the meteorites! ---------------------------------------- > From: cynapse at charter.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:38:43 -0500 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event > > http://www.movieweb.com/news/NEn3LrswY8Zyro > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jul 1 14:42:10 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:42:10 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event In-Reply-To: <5c0bc2684399dc2cb86f859061429b7c.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> References: <5c0bc2684399dc2cb86f859061429b7c.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:03:26 -0700 (MST), you wrote: >If Kleopatra were to hit the Earth (at least that is what I get out of the >main page), we would be in big trouble. For those of you who do not According to Dr. Emmett Brown in one of those clips, it is Kassandra. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/114_Kassandra From stm at bellsouth.net Wed Jul 1 13:36:37 2009 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:36:37 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake In-Reply-To: <5F380312A8DC4007A9CE3C9EE5B4728C@walterdesktop> References: <3F897DF8BF4B40869456F14F29930DB0@Platinum2> <5F380312A8DC4007A9CE3C9EE5B4728C@walterdesktop> Message-ID: <4AAA579B616B4D6CA4961F828FA3487E@Platinum2> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000559/ Check out entry #108 Them! (1954) (uncredited) .... Air Force Sergeant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Branch" To: "Sean T. Murray" ; Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:23 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake > Wait a minute. I pride myself on knowing Classic scifi/horror (if you a > familier with Plan 9 From Outer Space you are in the club too) but I dont' > remember Nimoy bing in Them. Which character was he? > > -Walter Branch > ----------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sean T. Murray" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:24 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake > > > Leonard Nimoy was in "Them!". DeForest was in "Night of the Lupus" with > the > giant rabbits... Who could forget that masterpiece! I think that is what > you all are remembering. Giant ants, giant rabbits -- it was the > "Radiation > (or the occasional meteorite) made this harmless thing giant and crave > human > blood" era of movie-making. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl 's" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 8:39 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake > > > > > > > I love that movie! When I was a kid I remember rooting for the ants! No, > that wasn't DeForest Kelly. It's been awhile since I saw it but I believe > that was Leonard Nimoy. > > Carl > > > >>Them! had a stellar performance by a young DeForest Kelley. I don't >>think it was credited under that name though. > > > On 6/30/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: >> For all the ant "lovers," I recommend the 1954 >> movie "THEM!" starring the venerable British >> actor Edmond Gwenn (b. 1877, first movie 1916) >> with early-career performances by James Whitmore, >> James Arness, Fess Parker and a host of character >> actors. >> >> And of course, hordes of very, very large ants. >> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.1/2212 - Release Date: 07/01/09 > 05:53:00 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.1/2212 - Release Date: 07/01/09 05:53:00 From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Wed Jul 1 14:06:24 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:06:24 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event In-Reply-To: References: <5c0bc2684399dc2cb86f859061429b7c.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Hi Darren: My bad. Kassandra is only 100 km in diameter, so not quite as big as Kleo. However, it is a T-class asteroid (dark). I observed it years ago and it did not show any evidence of hydrated minerals, but have not had a chance to see if anyone has looked at it in the last decade or so. Ts are rare, so it would be nice to get a piece of one (but not too big). Larry PS At least it is not a piece of a brown dwarf! > On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 10:03:26 -0700 (MST), you wrote: > >>If Kleopatra were to hit the Earth (at least that is what I get out of >> the >>main page), we would be in big trouble. For those of you who do not > > According to Dr. Emmett Brown in one of those clips, it is Kassandra. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/114_Kassandra > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From damoclid at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 14:30:42 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:30:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event Message-ID: <946351.39580.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 7/1/09, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu wrote: > Ts are rare, > so it would be nice to get a piece of one (but not too > big). > > Larry I'm working on that last part Larry, but I got a number of complaints that TC3 turned into an Ureilite. Orders have been placed for the next one to be a C-type / Ordinary Condrite. Unfortunately the way it works is "Order what you want, get what you get"! -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 From rhartman04 at earthlink.net Wed Jul 1 14:51:27 2009 From: rhartman04 at earthlink.net (R N Hartman) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 11:51:27 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards References: <569631.40817.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <002301c9f9eb$9868b700$6401a8c0@DBZC5NB1> Message-ID: <001201c9fa7c$f11f0340$6401a8c0@DBZC5NB1> There are different quality blades (quantity of diamonds per unit, in the blade), and also various rim configurations. Performance varies with brand also. I think the blade is wearing out when you are seeing less even cuts, unless something is wearing in the saw itself. As I have experienced it, the CBN blades are best and primarily for cutting irons. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "R N Hartman" Cc: "Meteorite List" Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 6:52 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards > Hi Ron and List, > > I noticed that about the blade sanding it's way through the specimen. > The first slices I made were the smoothest and the prettiest. Now, > after many cuts, the blade is leaving more noticeable saw marks. > > The blade I am using is the stock/default blade that came with the > saw, so I don't know how good it really is, quality-wise. I have > another blade sold specifically to cut meteorites, it's the same > thickness but the blade is brown-colored instead of reflective bare > metal. It's also a CBN, which comes highly recommended. I wanted to > practice with the stock blade before moving on to the CBN. I also > have an extremely thin and floppy diamond blade called a laser > "dia-cut" which I haven't used yet either. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > On 6/30/09, R N Hartman wrote: >> That because a Diamond blade (but not all!) with the very fine continuous >> diamond mesh does not cut, it "sands". It sands its way right through >> your >> tough iron meteorite and if your saw is running smoothly it will give >> your >> slice a high polish as it finishes the cut. If you have some issues with >> the straightness of the blade or continuous feed, etc. you may get >> grooves, >> which is a sad problem! >> >> Ron Hartman >> >> Disclaimer: Use of this information, I am not responsible for lost >> fingers, >> noses or toes! >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mr EMan" >> To: "Meteorite List" ; "Galactic >> Stone >> & Ironworks" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards >> >> >> >> Last time I cut with a diamond blade it only would cut the nail and not >> the >> skin--wanna give it a try and see if thinner blades can cut skin? >> >> Mike they make a slab holder/jig which comes in few sizes that lets you >> cut >> down below 10mm or so. Once you clamp the stone in the jig you clamp it >> in >> your saw vice. $20-30 on ebay. >> >> Elton >> >> --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Listees and Stonecutters! >>> >>> After using my saw on several occasions now, I wanted to >>> share a >>> recent experience and ask a related question. >>> >>> While cutting a small unclassified NWA stone about the size >>> of a >>> walnut, my stepson showed up and started >>> watching. It made him >>> extremely nervous watching me handhold the small stone >>> while I cut it. >>> Apparently seeing my unprotected fingers a half-inch away >>> from a >>> spinning diamond blade was too much to bear. He is >>> absolutely >>> convinced I am going to cut a finger off. (Shows how >>> much confidence >>> he has in me!) LOL >>> >>> He asked why I don't use some kind of jig or holder that >>> will hold the >>> stone for me. I showed him my rock vise, which is >>> made for use with >>> this particular saw. But the vise is only good for >>> larger stones, or >>> elongated stones. It's not much good for holding very >>> small >>> acorn-sized or walnut-sized stones. So, I bravely go >>> where no fingers >>> should go. He asked what I would do if I cut off my >>> finger, and I >>> nonchalantly said I would drive myself to the nearest >>> emergency room, >>> wait my turn, get it sewed back on, and then go home with a >>> big >>> bandaged hand and type a one-handed email to the list about >>> the >>> episode. ;) >>> >>> So, my question is - how do you cut very small stones on a >>> 6" lapidary >>> saw? Do you hand hold them? Do you use some >>> kind of jig? And how >>> many digits do you still have on your hands? >>> >>> Honestly, I am not terribly worried about it. I am >>> experienced with >>> power tools and saws, so I'm not being reckless. But >>> if there is >>> something I can do to make my wife and family feel better >>> about it, >>> I'd do it. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> 10-Fingered Mike (for now) >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ......................................................... >>> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >>> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >>> .......................................................... >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... From bristolia at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 15:18:57 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact Database v. 2009.1 Message-ID: <405081.93547.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Impact Database v. 2009.1 http://impacts.rajmon.cz/ http://impacts.rajmon.cz/IDhistory.html Yours, Paul H. From bristolia at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 15:43:00 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 12:43:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New ASTER Global Satellite Digital Elevation Model Data Now Available Online Message-ID: <590770.5428.qm@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Articles that describe this new global Digital Elevation Model (DEM) dataset are: 1. Most Complete Earth Map Published, BBC News, June 30, 2009 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8126197.stm 2. Most Complete Topographic Map of Earth, GM International http://www.gim-international.com/news/id3889-Most_Complete_Topographic_Map_of_Earth.html "NASA and Japan released a new digital topographic map of Earth Monday that covers more of our planet than ever before. The map was produced with detailed measurements from NASA's Terra spacecraft. The new global digital elevation model of Earth was created from nearly 1.3 million individual stereo-pair images collected by the Japanese Advanced Spaceborne Thermal Emission and Reflection Radiometer, or ASTER, instrument aboard Terra. NASA and Japan's Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI), developed the data set. It is available online to users everywhere at no cost." Homepages for the ASTER Global DEM are: http://www.gdem.aster.ersdac.or.jp/ https://wist.echo.nasa.gov/~wist/api/imswelcome/ https://wist.echo.nasa.gov/wist-bin/api/ims.cgi?mode=MAINSRCH&JS=1 Yours, Paul V. Heinrich From dfpens01 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 16:25:30 2009 From: dfpens01 at yahoo.com (David Pensenstadler) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:25:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards Message-ID: <446834.17513.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have used CBN blades and they do not last very long. I cut a total of 22 inches of meteorites with a blade that cost nearly $100. Unfortunately, there are not too many other choices, especially for irons. Dave --- On Wed, 7/1/09, R N Hartman wrote: > From: R N Hartman > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards > To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" > Cc: "Meteorite Central" > Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 2:51 PM > There are different quality blades > (quantity of diamonds per unit, in the blade), and also > various rim configurations.? Performance varies with > brand also.? I think the blade is wearing out when you > are seeing less even cuts, unless something is wearing in > the saw itself.? As I have experienced it, the CBN > blades are best and primarily for cutting irons. > > Ron > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & > Ironworks" > To: "R N Hartman" > Cc: "Meteorite List" > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 6:52 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw > Wizards > > > > Hi Ron and List, > > > > I noticed that about the blade sanding it's way > through the specimen. > > The first slices I made were the smoothest and the > prettiest.? Now, > > after many cuts, the blade is leaving more noticeable > saw marks. > > > > The blade I am using is the stock/default blade that > came with the > > saw, so I don't know how good it really is, > quality-wise.? I have > > another blade sold specifically to cut meteorites, > it's the same > > thickness but the blade is brown-colored instead of > reflective bare > > metal.? It's also a CBN, which comes highly > recommended.? I wanted to > > practice with the stock blade before moving on to the > CBN.? I also > > have an extremely thin and floppy diamond blade called > a laser > > "dia-cut" which I? haven't used yet either. > > > > Best regards, > > > > MikeG > > > > > > On 6/30/09, R N Hartman > wrote: > >> That because a Diamond blade (but not all!) with > the very fine continuous > >> diamond mesh does not cut, it "sands".? It > sands its way right through your > >> tough iron meteorite and if your saw is running > smoothly it will give your > >> slice a high polish as it finishes the cut.? > If you have some issues with > >> the straightness of the blade or continuous feed, > etc. you may get grooves, > >> which is a sad problem! > >> > >> Ron Hartman > >> > >> Disclaimer:? Use of this information, I am > not responsible for lost fingers, > >> noses or toes! > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Mr EMan" > >> To: "Meteorite List" ; > "Galactic Stone > >> & Ironworks" > >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:18 PM > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another question for > the Saw Wizards > >> > >> > >> > >> Last time I cut with a diamond blade it only would > cut the nail and not the > >> skin--wanna give it a try and see if thinner > blades can cut skin? > >> > >> Mike they make a slab holder/jig which comes in > few sizes that lets you cut > >> down below 10mm or so. Once you clamp the stone in > the jig you clamp it in > >> your saw vice. $20-30 on ebay. > >> > >> Elton > >> > >> --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Galactic Stone & > Ironworks > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Listees and Stonecutters! > >>> > >>> After using my saw on several occasions now, I > wanted to > >>> share a > >>> recent experience and ask a related question. > >>> > >>> While cutting a small unclassified NWA stone > about the size > >>> of a > >>> walnut, my stepson showed up and started > >>> watching. It made him > >>> extremely nervous watching me handhold the > small stone > >>> while I cut it. > >>>? Apparently seeing my unprotected fingers > a half-inch away > >>> from a > >>> spinning diamond blade was too much to bear. > He is > >>> absolutely > >>> convinced I am going to cut a finger off. > (Shows how > >>> much confidence > >>> he has in me!) LOL > >>> > >>> He asked why I don't use some kind of jig or > holder that > >>> will hold the > >>> stone for me. I showed him my rock vise, which > is > >>> made for use with > >>> this particular saw. But the vise is only good > for > >>> larger stones, or > >>> elongated stones. It's not much good for > holding very > >>> small > >>> acorn-sized or walnut-sized stones. So, I > bravely go > >>> where no fingers > >>> should go. He asked what I would do if I cut > off my > >>> finger, and I > >>> nonchalantly said I would drive myself to the > nearest > >>> emergency room, > >>> wait my turn, get it sewed back on, and then > go home with a > >>> big > >>> bandaged hand and type a one-handed email to > the list about > >>> the > >>> episode. ;) > >>> > >>> So, my question is - how do you cut very small > stones on a > >>> 6" lapidary > >>> saw? Do you hand hold them? Do you use some > >>> kind of jig? And how > >>> many digits do you still have on your hands? > >>> > >>> Honestly, I am not terribly worried about it. > I am > >>> experienced with > >>> power tools and saws, so I'm not being > reckless. But > >>> if there is > >>> something I can do to make my wife and family > feel better > >>> about it, > >>> I'd do it. > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> > >>> 10-Fingered Mike (for now) > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > ......................................................... > >>> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > >>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. > >>> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers > Network. > >>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > >>> > .......................................................... > >>> > ______________________________________________ > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >>> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > ......................................................... > > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > > > .......................................................... > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jul 1 16:34:02 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 16:34:02 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 30% Ebay Sale - 24 hours Message-ID: Hey all, Just for the fun of it, every item in my Ebay Store that had at least one person "watching" that item, I decided to place it in a 30% Off Sale. The 30% Off Sale will start at the top of the hour (5pm Eastern) and it will last for just 24 hours. Be the first to get to the "Buy it Now" button after the sale kicks in, and save a bundle. Just a little way to say "thank you" to those of you watching my listings. Check what I have out here: http://stores.ebay.com/Steve-Arnold-Meteorites?refid=store Thanks, Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************Dell Laptops: Huge Savings on Popular Laptops ? Deals starting at $399(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222883570x1201497211/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D0) From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 16:42:21 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 16:42:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards In-Reply-To: <446834.17513.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <446834.17513.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi David and List, So I should save the CBN blade for irons and use my diamond blades for the stones? Best regards, MikeG On 7/1/09, David Pensenstadler wrote: > > I have used CBN blades and they do not last very long. I cut a total of 22 > inches of meteorites with a blade that cost nearly $100. > > Unfortunately, there are not too many other choices, especially for irons. > > Dave > > --- On Wed, 7/1/09, R N Hartman wrote: > >> From: R N Hartman >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards >> To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" >> Cc: "Meteorite Central" >> Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 2:51 PM >> There are different quality blades >> (quantity of diamonds per unit, in the blade), and also >> various rim configurations. Performance varies with >> brand also. I think the blade is wearing out when you >> are seeing less even cuts, unless something is wearing in >> the saw itself. As I have experienced it, the CBN >> blades are best and primarily for cutting irons. >> >> Ron >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & >> Ironworks" >> To: "R N Hartman" >> Cc: "Meteorite List" >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 6:52 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw >> Wizards >> >> >> > Hi Ron and List, >> > >> > I noticed that about the blade sanding it's way >> through the specimen. >> > The first slices I made were the smoothest and the >> prettiest. Now, >> > after many cuts, the blade is leaving more noticeable >> saw marks. >> > >> > The blade I am using is the stock/default blade that >> came with the >> > saw, so I don't know how good it really is, >> quality-wise. I have >> > another blade sold specifically to cut meteorites, >> it's the same >> > thickness but the blade is brown-colored instead of >> reflective bare >> > metal. It's also a CBN, which comes highly >> recommended. I wanted to >> > practice with the stock blade before moving on to the >> CBN. I also >> > have an extremely thin and floppy diamond blade called >> a laser >> > "dia-cut" which I haven't used yet either. >> > >> > Best regards, >> > >> > MikeG >> > >> > >> > On 6/30/09, R N Hartman >> wrote: >> >> That because a Diamond blade (but not all!) with >> the very fine continuous >> >> diamond mesh does not cut, it "sands". It >> sands its way right through your >> >> tough iron meteorite and if your saw is running >> smoothly it will give your >> >> slice a high polish as it finishes the cut. >> If you have some issues with >> >> the straightness of the blade or continuous feed, >> etc. you may get grooves, >> >> which is a sad problem! >> >> >> >> Ron Hartman >> >> >> >> Disclaimer: Use of this information, I am >> not responsible for lost fingers, >> >> noses or toes! >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: "Mr EMan" >> >> To: "Meteorite List" ; >> "Galactic Stone >> >> & Ironworks" >> >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:18 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another question for >> the Saw Wizards >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Last time I cut with a diamond blade it only would >> cut the nail and not the >> >> skin--wanna give it a try and see if thinner >> blades can cut skin? >> >> >> >> Mike they make a slab holder/jig which comes in >> few sizes that lets you cut >> >> down below 10mm or so. Once you clamp the stone in >> the jig you clamp it in >> >> your saw vice. $20-30 on ebay. >> >> >> >> Elton >> >> >> >> --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Galactic Stone & >> Ironworks >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hi Listees and Stonecutters! >> >>> >> >>> After using my saw on several occasions now, I >> wanted to >> >>> share a >> >>> recent experience and ask a related question. >> >>> >> >>> While cutting a small unclassified NWA stone >> about the size >> >>> of a >> >>> walnut, my stepson showed up and started >> >>> watching. It made him >> >>> extremely nervous watching me handhold the >> small stone >> >>> while I cut it. >> >>> Apparently seeing my unprotected fingers >> a half-inch away >> >>> from a >> >>> spinning diamond blade was too much to bear. >> He is >> >>> absolutely >> >>> convinced I am going to cut a finger off. >> (Shows how >> >>> much confidence >> >>> he has in me!) LOL >> >>> >> >>> He asked why I don't use some kind of jig or >> holder that >> >>> will hold the >> >>> stone for me. I showed him my rock vise, which >> is >> >>> made for use with >> >>> this particular saw. But the vise is only good >> for >> >>> larger stones, or >> >>> elongated stones. It's not much good for >> holding very >> >>> small >> >>> acorn-sized or walnut-sized stones. So, I >> bravely go >> >>> where no fingers >> >>> should go. He asked what I would do if I cut >> off my >> >>> finger, and I >> >>> nonchalantly said I would drive myself to the >> nearest >> >>> emergency room, >> >>> wait my turn, get it sewed back on, and then >> go home with a >> >>> big >> >>> bandaged hand and type a one-handed email to >> the list about >> >>> the >> >>> episode. ;) >> >>> >> >>> So, my question is - how do you cut very small >> stones on a >> >>> 6" lapidary >> >>> saw? Do you hand hold them? Do you use some >> >>> kind of jig? And how >> >>> many digits do you still have on your hands? >> >>> >> >>> Honestly, I am not terribly worried about it. >> I am >> >>> experienced with >> >>> power tools and saws, so I'm not being >> reckless. But >> >>> if there is >> >>> something I can do to make my wife and family >> feel better >> >>> about it, >> >>> I'd do it. >> >>> >> >>> Best regards, >> >>> >> >>> 10-Fingered Mike (for now) >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> >> ......................................................... >> >>> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> >>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> >>> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers >> Network. >> >>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and >> >>> http://www.glassthrower.com >> >>> >> .......................................................... >> >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >> >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> ......................................................... >> > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> > Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> > >> .......................................................... >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From tradman7 at comcast.net Wed Jul 1 18:14:34 2009 From: tradman7 at comcast.net (tradman7 at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 22:14:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] New meteorite hunter has some questions Message-ID: <1372113615.1276591246486474320.JavaMail.root@sz0174a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hey all, I live near Chattanooga Tennessee. I have always been interested in meteorites and astronomy, but hadnt thought much about it lately until I saw the show called "Meteorite Men" on TV. I am really wanting to look for meteorites and I have been researching the subject, reading "Rocks From Space", I have orded some magnets for testing the finds and ive made a magnet cane. I was wondering it there is any point looking in my area, knowing that we get more rain here than in the arid places, I realize that the meteorites will decay much more quickly in the damper ground. I also was wondering if purchasing a metal detector might be a good idea. I have read that the Whites GMT is a good possible option and I learned that it is designed primarily for gold hunting and it also registers the iron in the "hot rocks" which I suppose are sometimes meteorites. My thought is that very few people are looking in the southeast US, and while I havent researched yet about known falls and strewn fields in the southeast, I would think there must have been some here. I guess one question I have is, am I better off buying a metal detector that also registers coins and relics, and other items since those things are often found here, like Civil war relics, or should I try to get a detector that is better suited for the meteorites? Another question is, would the GMT be likely to detect a meteorite of say, 2 inches in diameter up to 12 inches or bigger, under several inches of damp soil or a foot or two deep? Would the moisture in the ground here already have eaten them away? I saw the guys on TV dragging that large detector around to find deeply buried large ones, and it made me think of possibly walking through some flat farm fields around here with a detector of some sort, though a handheld one is closer to being in my budget right now. I understand that those guys did lots of research about the kansas strewn field, and I know that just randomly searching farm fields in Tennessee wont be very productive, but do you think I have any alternatives to use around here to look a bit? I know that meteorites are very rare and difficult to find, but i am willing to put in the time if i think there is a chance of success. Any info you guys could give me about whether a metal detector might be a good idea, and if the GMT or another type might do better will be appreciated. Also if you could tell me what other sort of options I might have for locating them several inches or a couple of feet beneath the surface if they are large enough to be detected, and if you think the rainfall in the southeast would make searching pointless? I have seen numerous areas where the topsoil has washed away leaving lots of rocks exposed on top on the ground, and I dragged a small magnet over the ground picking up little magnetized pebbles, some of which seem to be spherical and dented with the tiny ablation dents seen on larger specimens... so this is the sort of place i have begun looking. Will I just have to settle for occasional trips out west to hunt dry lakebeds or known strewn fields, or do I have a chance for some finds around here? Thank you for your time and I would be happy for any suggestions anyone might have. Happy hunting! Forrest West From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 1 21:16:07 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 20:16:07 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den> Message-ID: Hi, List, To quantify that impact, I went and ran the numbers through the online Impact Calculator that uses the Jay Melosh model: http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/ If 216 Kleopatra is 220 km x 100 km x 100 km, its volume is 17,278,875.96 km^3 or a total of (take a deep breath) 1,778,875,960,000,000 m^3. That's 1.7 quadrillion cubic meters and its mass would be at least 3.5 quadrillion metric tons. (Dogbone and Potato asteroids have lots of voids and a high porosity.) No, wait! It's 114 Kassandra? Get your Apocalypses straight, people! The volume of 114 Kassandra is less than Kleopatra: 523,598,644,700,000 cubic meters. The mass of 114 Kassandra, if rock, has to be at a minimum of 1,500,000,000,000,000 tons, although some sources say it's only 1,000,000,000,000,000. That big number is a Quadrillion tons, in case you want to know. OK, it's Kassandra! Smaller, lighter. Really puny. I gave it an intercept velocity of 47 km/s, a little slow for an eccentric orbit from the Asteroid Zone, and an incidence angle of 45 degrees. The energy of the collision is 1.20 x 10^24 Joules or 268,000,000 MegaTons TNT. The Calculator says "The average interval between impacts of this size somewhere on Earth during the last 4 billion years is 360,000,000 years." That energy is the equivalent of an explosion created by detonating a nuclear arsenal 1800 times bigger than the entire nuclear arsenals of all the nations of the world -- at once. The final crater diameter is 39.5 km or 24.5 miles; its final depth is 0.895 km or 0.556 miles. That seems oddly small for something so big. Why is that? Well, the Calculator says that the final crater is replaced by a large, circular melt province. The volume of the target melted or vaporized is 6410 cubic km or 1540 cubic miles. The melt volume is 2.87 times the crater volume If 114 Kassandra hit Los Angeles, you'd probably be alright (for a while) if you were in New York City (or Boston). You'd be alright, that is, if you can withstand the shock wave which, at that distance, would have a wind velocity of 140 mph, or a hurricane-level Force Nine Gale on the Beaufort Scale. Where I live, it'll be over 205 mph. The real problem, I suspect, is in the vaporization of a substantial percentage of that "melt province." If 10% of the rock vaporized, or 1.5 trillion tons of rock vapor would be distributed very quickly through the atmosphere at temperatures of more than 2000 degrees F. That quantity of rock vapor amounts to about 20,000 tons of rock vapor per square mile of the Earth's surface. The Impact Calculator does not discuss the contribution of the asteroid to the mass of rock vapor. I would suggest that at least 1% of it would survive as "mere" rock vapor (instead of plasma) -- that's an additional ten trillion tons, raising the distribution to 110,000 tons of rock vapor per square mile of the Earth's surface (about 190,000,000 square miles). I suggest a very study, fireproofed umbrella would be a good idea if you plan on going out... This is an impact at least 30 to 50 times worse than the Chicxulub Impact which, it has been suggested, burned most of the vegetation off the planet with its rock vapor plume. 114 Kassandra's effect could only be characterized as the "Krispy Kritter" impact. It sounds like a a lousy environment in which to stage a mini-series. But... That's Entertainment! Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------ Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event If Kleopatra were to hit the Earth (at least that is what I get out of the main page), we would be in big trouble. For those of you who do not remember, 216 Kleopatra, thanks to radar observations, looks very much like a big dog bone, 220 kilometers long and 100 kilometers across. Larry ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:38 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event > http://www.movieweb.com/news/NEn3LrswY8Zyro > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 1 21:52:44 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:52:44 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake Message-ID: Hi Walter and All, To see a young L. Nimoy, look at the 3 minute mark on youtube, THEM!(1954) Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdqIiF8uj5M&feature=PlayList&p=F6FFC5E5C7E45151&index=5 Carl Sean wrote: >Check out entry #108 Them! (1954) (uncredited) .... Air Force Sergeant >Wait a minute. I pride myself on knowing Classic scifi/horror (if you a familier with Plan 9 From Outer Space you are in the club too) but I dont' remember Nimoy bing in Them. Which character was he? -Walter Branch _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Wed Jul 1 22:03:46 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 19:03:46 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event In-Reply-To: References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den> Message-ID: <8dc0bd125d3f09b1a045d9fcc01c4f51.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi Sterling: I will admit that, at first, I got the wrong asteroid (though now more interesting composition) and I am never one to say you are wrong, but... YOU ARE WRONG!!!!! Sorry, that felt good! If you go by Wikipedia, you lost 3 zeros 1x10^18 bit 1X10^15. It would be had to believe that a 100-km diameter object (give or take) would make a 40-km hole in the ground unless it was going real slow and hit a really hard surface. Somthing that big would probably make a hole 1000 km or so across (at least), which would make it a bad day even for the roaches. Oh, did I forget to mention: You are wrong! It is a rare day that I get to say that to you Sterling, sorry. Larry > Hi, List, > > To quantify that impact, I went and ran the numbers > through the online Impact Calculator that uses the > Jay Melosh model: > http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/ > > If 216 Kleopatra is 220 km x 100 km x 100 km, its > volume is 17,278,875.96 km^3 or a total of (take a > deep breath) 1,778,875,960,000,000 m^3. That's > 1.7 quadrillion cubic meters and its mass would be at > least 3.5 quadrillion metric tons. (Dogbone and Potato > asteroids have lots of voids and a high porosity.) > > No, wait! It's 114 Kassandra? Get your Apocalypses > straight, people! > > The volume of 114 Kassandra is less than Kleopatra: > 523,598,644,700,000 cubic meters. The mass of > 114 Kassandra, if rock, has to be at a minimum of > 1,500,000,000,000,000 tons, although some sources > say it's only 1,000,000,000,000,000. That big number > is a Quadrillion tons, in case you want to know. > > OK, it's Kassandra! Smaller, lighter. Really puny. > I gave it an intercept velocity of 47 km/s, a little > slow for an eccentric orbit from the Asteroid Zone, > and an incidence angle of 45 degrees. > > The energy of the collision is 1.20 x 10^24 Joules > or 268,000,000 MegaTons TNT. The Calculator says > "The average interval between impacts of this size > somewhere on Earth during the last 4 billion years > is 360,000,000 years." > > That energy is the equivalent of an explosion created > by detonating a nuclear arsenal 1800 times bigger > than the entire nuclear arsenals of all the nations of > the world -- at once. > > The final crater diameter is 39.5 km or 24.5 miles; > its final depth is 0.895 km or 0.556 miles. That seems > oddly small for something so big. Why is that? Well, > the Calculator says that the final crater is replaced > by a large, circular melt province. The volume of the > target melted or vaporized is 6410 cubic km or 1540 > cubic miles. The melt volume is 2.87 times the > crater volume > > If 114 Kassandra hit Los Angeles, you'd probably be > alright (for a while) if you were in New York City (or > Boston). You'd be alright, that is, if you can withstand > the shock wave which, at that distance, would have > a wind velocity of 140 mph, or a hurricane-level > Force Nine Gale on the Beaufort Scale. Where I live, > it'll be over 205 mph. > > The real problem, I suspect, is in the vaporization of > a substantial percentage of that "melt province." If > 10% of the rock vaporized, or 1.5 trillion tons of rock > vapor would be distributed very quickly through the > atmosphere at temperatures of more than 2000 > degrees F. That quantity of rock vapor amounts to > about 20,000 tons of rock vapor per square mile > of the Earth's surface. > > The Impact Calculator does not discuss the contribution > of the asteroid to the mass of rock vapor. I would suggest > that at least 1% of it would survive as "mere" rock vapor > (instead of plasma) -- that's an additional ten trillion tons, > raising the distribution to 110,000 tons of rock vapor per > square mile of the Earth's surface (about 190,000,000 > square miles). > > I suggest a very study, fireproofed umbrella would > be a good idea if you plan on going out... > > This is an impact at least 30 to 50 times worse than > the Chicxulub Impact which, it has been suggested, > burned most of the vegetation off the planet with its > rock vapor plume. 114 Kassandra's effect could only > be characterized as the "Krispy Kritter" impact. > > It sounds like a a lousy environment in which to > stage a mini-series. But... That's Entertainment! > > > > Sterling K. Webb > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:03 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event > > > If Kleopatra were to hit the Earth (at least that is what I get out of > the > main page), we would be in big trouble. For those of you who do not > remember, 216 Kleopatra, thanks to radar observations, looks very much > like a big dog bone, 220 kilometers long and 100 kilometers across. > > Larry > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darren Garrison" > To: "Meteorite List" > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:38 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event > > >> http://www.movieweb.com/news/NEn3LrswY8Zyro >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 1 23:39:34 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 22:39:34 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den> <8dc0bd125d3f09b1a045d9fcc01c4f51.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Hi, Larry, List, Yes, I am WRONG! However, my mistake was not the one you hypothesized. The Wikipedia gives mass in kilograms and I reduced the quantity by 1000 to convert it to tons (10^18 kg = 10^15 metric tons), correctly. No, it was density. I think in grams per cubic centimeter when I think density. Water = 1.0, rock = 2.5, and so forth. The training is strong; one thinks in specific density. But the online Calculator wants kilograms per cubic meter, where water = 1000, rock = 2500, and so forth. So I calculated the impact of a 100 kilometer diameter SNOWFLAKE ! One with a specific density of about 0.022, a little fat for a snowflake, actually... So, if you ever want to know what impact a really big snowflake would have, you've got it now. The actual figures? The energy is 304,000,000,000 megatons. The crater is 1240 km (770 miles) across and would be 2500 meters deep before it fills with melt. The impact would melt 2,000,000 CUBIC MILES of the Earth's crust, and the melt zone extends to a depth of 35 kilometers, which in some places would take it down into the mantle itself, and it would certainly rebound and produce basalt flooding of incomprehensible magnitude, likely enough to flood and re-surface an entire continent. The "crater" would be a complex multi-ringed basin about the same size as the Moon's Mare Imbrium! Big enough for you now? This is a continent destroyer. The shock of the impact, would be a world-wide Richter Scale 12.3, strong enough to kill all animal life. The wind at the antipodeal point to the impact would be 385 mph. At just a quarter of the way around the planet (10,000 km away), the winds would be 835 mph. The fireball of the impact would be over 300 kilometers in diameter (190 miles) and it would be visible for 5570 kilometers (3500 miles). The thermal flux would be 53 times brighter than the Sun and everything organic within the line of sight would combust. This fireball would persist for nearly 8 hours (7 hours 42 minutes) before cooling enough to collapse. The shock wave there (3500 miles away) would be over 2000 mph, or about Mach 3. Major extinction event, clearly. I can't speak to the roaches; no one knows what it takes to wipe them out, if indeed it's even possible. Still, at the worst, the sulfur-eating thermophiles in the deep vents would survive just fine, fat and happy, and they could start this evolution thing all over again, something they've probably had to do before, as the universal inclusion of the 16S rna ribosome in most living things attests to. A little better? Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Sterling K. Webb" Cc: ; "Meteorite List" Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event > Hi Sterling: > > I will admit that, at first, I got the wrong asteroid (though now more > interesting composition) and I am never one to say you are wrong, > but... > > YOU ARE WRONG!!!!! > > Sorry, that felt good! > > If you go by Wikipedia, you lost 3 zeros 1x10^18 bit 1X10^15. It would > be > had to believe that a 100-km diameter object (give or take) would make > a > 40-km hole in the ground unless it was going real slow and hit a > really > hard surface. > > Somthing that big would probably make a hole 1000 km or so across (at > least), which would make it a bad day even for the roaches. > > Oh, did I forget to mention: > > You are wrong! It is a rare day that I get to say that to you > Sterling, > sorry. > > Larry > >> Hi, List, >> >> To quantify that impact, I went and ran the numbers >> through the online Impact Calculator that uses the >> Jay Melosh model: >> http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/ >> >> If 216 Kleopatra is 220 km x 100 km x 100 km, its >> volume is 17,278,875.96 km^3 or a total of (take a >> deep breath) 1,778,875,960,000,000 m^3. That's >> 1.7 quadrillion cubic meters and its mass would be at >> least 3.5 quadrillion metric tons. (Dogbone and Potato >> asteroids have lots of voids and a high porosity.) >> >> No, wait! It's 114 Kassandra? Get your Apocalypses >> straight, people! >> >> The volume of 114 Kassandra is less than Kleopatra: >> 523,598,644,700,000 cubic meters. The mass of >> 114 Kassandra, if rock, has to be at a minimum of >> 1,500,000,000,000,000 tons, although some sources >> say it's only 1,000,000,000,000,000. That big number >> is a Quadrillion tons, in case you want to know. >> >> OK, it's Kassandra! Smaller, lighter. Really puny. >> I gave it an intercept velocity of 47 km/s, a little >> slow for an eccentric orbit from the Asteroid Zone, >> and an incidence angle of 45 degrees. >> >> The energy of the collision is 1.20 x 10^24 Joules >> or 268,000,000 MegaTons TNT. The Calculator says >> "The average interval between impacts of this size >> somewhere on Earth during the last 4 billion years >> is 360,000,000 years." >> >> That energy is the equivalent of an explosion created >> by detonating a nuclear arsenal 1800 times bigger >> than the entire nuclear arsenals of all the nations of >> the world -- at once. >> >> The final crater diameter is 39.5 km or 24.5 miles; >> its final depth is 0.895 km or 0.556 miles. That seems >> oddly small for something so big. Why is that? Well, >> the Calculator says that the final crater is replaced >> by a large, circular melt province. The volume of the >> target melted or vaporized is 6410 cubic km or 1540 >> cubic miles. The melt volume is 2.87 times the >> crater volume >> >> If 114 Kassandra hit Los Angeles, you'd probably be >> alright (for a while) if you were in New York City (or >> Boston). You'd be alright, that is, if you can withstand >> the shock wave which, at that distance, would have >> a wind velocity of 140 mph, or a hurricane-level >> Force Nine Gale on the Beaufort Scale. Where I live, >> it'll be over 205 mph. >> >> The real problem, I suspect, is in the vaporization of >> a substantial percentage of that "melt province." If >> 10% of the rock vaporized, or 1.5 trillion tons of rock >> vapor would be distributed very quickly through the >> atmosphere at temperatures of more than 2000 >> degrees F. That quantity of rock vapor amounts to >> about 20,000 tons of rock vapor per square mile >> of the Earth's surface. >> >> The Impact Calculator does not discuss the contribution >> of the asteroid to the mass of rock vapor. I would suggest >> that at least 1% of it would survive as "mere" rock vapor >> (instead of plasma) -- that's an additional ten trillion tons, >> raising the distribution to 110,000 tons of rock vapor per >> square mile of the Earth's surface (about 190,000,000 >> square miles). >> >> I suggest a very study, fireproofed umbrella would >> be a good idea if you plan on going out... >> >> This is an impact at least 30 to 50 times worse than >> the Chicxulub Impact which, it has been suggested, >> burned most of the vegetation off the planet with its >> rock vapor plume. 114 Kassandra's effect could only >> be characterized as the "Krispy Kritter" impact. >> >> It sounds like a a lousy environment in which to >> stage a mini-series. But... That's Entertainment! >> >> >> >> Sterling K. Webb >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ------ Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV >> event >> >> >> If Kleopatra were to hit the Earth (at least that is what I get out >> of >> the >> main page), we would be in big trouble. For those of you who do not >> remember, 216 Kleopatra, thanks to radar observations, looks very >> much >> like a big dog bone, 220 kilometers long and 100 kilometers across. >> >> Larry >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Darren Garrison" >> To: "Meteorite List" >> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:38 AM >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event >> >> >>> http://www.movieweb.com/news/NEn3LrswY8Zyro >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > From bristolia at yahoo.com Thu Jul 2 00:00:33 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 21:00:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Are these Alleged "Impact Events" Either for Real or of Any Significance? Message-ID: <414202.40300.qm@web36205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Friends, Does anybody have any information on the below alleged "impact events"? Is there any documentation for them having ever happened? 1. Cando event http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cando_event 2. Vitim event http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitim_event 3. Eastern Mediterranean event http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Mediterranean_Event If any of the above "events" are for real, were any of any significance? Yours, Paul H. From mikewren at gilanet.com Thu Jul 2 00:13:05 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 21:13:05 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: EXTREMELY SERIOUS AUCTIONS UP FOR THE WEEK! Happy 4th of July To All! Message-ID: <3DC40129-3CEA-4EE2-BA33-C69C87F0408E@gilanet.com> Hello, Auctions up for the week-MOST CERTAINLY WORTH A LOOK! http://shop.ebay.com:80/merchant/meteorite-collector_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From drtanuki at yahoo.com Thu Jul 2 00:16:30 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 21:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Are these Alleged "Impact Events" Either for Real or of Any Significance? Message-ID: <898239.17315.qm@web53108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Paul, The Vitim Event was real but the study results have been slow to come out of Russia. Last report: Geophysical Research Abstracts, Vol. 7, 00257, 2005 SRef-ID: 1607-7962/gra/EGU05-A-00257 ? European Geosciences Union 2005 Some atmospheric and magnetospheric effects possibly related to the Vitim bolide impact E.A. Kasatkina and O.I. Shumilov Institute of North Industrial Ecology Problems, Kola Science Centre RAS, 184209 Apatity, Russia Sensors aboard US Department of Defence satellites detected the impact of a bolide on 24 September 2002 at 16:49 UT. The bolide had disappeared at an altitude of 30 km above the Vitim river, Siberia (58.21N, 113.46E). The total radiated energy was 8.6x10?11 Joules. An unusual infrasonic event with a 30-minute duration has been detected by the Apatity infrasonic array at Kola Peninsula (67.3N, 33.3E) on September 24, 2002 at 22:20 UT. The infrasonic signal had been detected by three spatially separated microbarographs operating in the passband from 0.0001 to 1 Hertz at a distance of 4000 km from the source. Estimates of the local infrasound velocity and the direction of the signal arrival seem to be in agreement with the acoustic travel velocity and the source azimuth. We cannot exclude that the Vitim bolide (or minicomet) effects were as well appeared at some other atmospheric and magnetospheric phenomena, e.g. in magnetic disturbances at high latitude stations, cosmic radionoise absorption, variations of air conductivity. These effects are compared with some other similar effects related to different bolides like Tunguska and Brasilian ones. A possible nature of the effects is discussed. The work was partially supported by Russian Foundation for Basic Research (grant N 05-06-97528) and also by RAS program "Electric processes and radiophysical methods of investigations". --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Paul wrote: > From: Paul > Subject: [meteorite-list] Are these Alleged "Impact Events" Either for Real or of Any Significance? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 1:00 PM > > Dear Friends, > > Does anybody have any information on the below alleged > "impact events"? > > Is there any documentation for them having ever happened? > > 1. Cando event > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cando_event > > 2. Vitim event > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitim_event > > 3. Eastern Mediterranean event > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Mediterranean_Event > > If any of the above "events" are for real, were any of any > significance? > > Yours, > > Paul H. > > > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Thu Jul 2 00:17:21 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 21:17:21 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event In-Reply-To: References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den> <8dc0bd125d3f09b1a045d9fcc01c4f51.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <0dcf96a28d1a7a3eb56a8afeee76e599.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi Sterling: Sounds more reasonable, if destroying everything is reasonable. Any idea how often these occur? This is 5 times the diameter of either Sudbury or Vredefort and these are more than a billion years old. Maybe this is big enough to punch through the mantle and bury itself in magma. Larry > Hi, Larry, List, > > Yes, I am WRONG! However, my mistake was not the > one you hypothesized. The Wikipedia gives mass in > kilograms and I reduced the quantity by 1000 to > convert it to tons (10^18 kg = 10^15 metric tons), > correctly. > > No, it was density. I think in grams per cubic centimeter > when I think density. Water = 1.0, rock = 2.5, and > so forth. The training is strong; one thinks in specific > density. But the online Calculator wants kilograms > per cubic meter, where water = 1000, rock = 2500, and > so forth. > > So I calculated the impact of a 100 kilometer diameter > SNOWFLAKE ! One with a specific density of about > 0.022, a little fat for a snowflake, actually... So, if you > ever want to know what impact a really big snowflake > would have, you've got it now. > > The actual figures? The energy is 304,000,000,000 > megatons. The crater is 1240 km (770 miles) across > and would be 2500 meters deep before it fills with > melt. The impact would melt 2,000,000 CUBIC MILES > of the Earth's crust, and the melt zone extends to a > depth of 35 kilometers, which in some places would > take it down into the mantle itself, and it would > certainly rebound and produce basalt flooding of > incomprehensible magnitude, likely enough to flood > and re-surface an entire continent. The "crater" > would be a complex multi-ringed basin about the > same size as the Moon's Mare Imbrium! > > Big enough for you now? > > This is a continent destroyer. The shock of the impact, > would be a world-wide Richter Scale 12.3, strong enough > to kill all animal life. The wind at the antipodeal point to > the impact would be 385 mph. At just a quarter of the way > around the planet (10,000 km away), the winds would > be 835 mph. > > The fireball of the impact would be over 300 kilometers > in diameter (190 miles) and it would be visible for 5570 > kilometers (3500 miles). The thermal flux would be 53 > times brighter than the Sun and everything organic within > the line of sight would combust. This fireball would persist > for nearly 8 hours (7 hours 42 minutes) before cooling > enough to collapse. The shock wave there (3500 miles > away) would be over 2000 mph, or about Mach 3. > > Major extinction event, clearly. > > I can't speak to the roaches; no one knows what it takes > to wipe them out, if indeed it's even possible. Still, at > the worst, the sulfur-eating thermophiles in the deep > vents would survive just fine, fat and happy, and they > could start this evolution thing all over again, something > they've probably had to do before, as the universal inclusion > of the 16S rna ribosome in most living things attests to. > > A little better? > > > Sterling K. Webb > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Sterling K. Webb" > Cc: ; "Meteorite List" > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:03 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event > > >> Hi Sterling: >> >> I will admit that, at first, I got the wrong asteroid (though now more >> interesting composition) and I am never one to say you are wrong, >> but... >> >> YOU ARE WRONG!!!!! >> >> Sorry, that felt good! >> >> If you go by Wikipedia, you lost 3 zeros 1x10^18 bit 1X10^15. It would >> be >> had to believe that a 100-km diameter object (give or take) would make >> a >> 40-km hole in the ground unless it was going real slow and hit a >> really >> hard surface. >> >> Somthing that big would probably make a hole 1000 km or so across (at >> least), which would make it a bad day even for the roaches. >> >> Oh, did I forget to mention: >> >> You are wrong! It is a rare day that I get to say that to you >> Sterling, >> sorry. >> >> Larry >> >>> Hi, List, >>> >>> To quantify that impact, I went and ran the numbers >>> through the online Impact Calculator that uses the >>> Jay Melosh model: >>> http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/ >>> >>> If 216 Kleopatra is 220 km x 100 km x 100 km, its >>> volume is 17,278,875.96 km^3 or a total of (take a >>> deep breath) 1,778,875,960,000,000 m^3. That's >>> 1.7 quadrillion cubic meters and its mass would be at >>> least 3.5 quadrillion metric tons. (Dogbone and Potato >>> asteroids have lots of voids and a high porosity.) >>> >>> No, wait! It's 114 Kassandra? Get your Apocalypses >>> straight, people! >>> >>> The volume of 114 Kassandra is less than Kleopatra: >>> 523,598,644,700,000 cubic meters. The mass of >>> 114 Kassandra, if rock, has to be at a minimum of >>> 1,500,000,000,000,000 tons, although some sources >>> say it's only 1,000,000,000,000,000. That big number >>> is a Quadrillion tons, in case you want to know. >>> >>> OK, it's Kassandra! Smaller, lighter. Really puny. >>> I gave it an intercept velocity of 47 km/s, a little >>> slow for an eccentric orbit from the Asteroid Zone, >>> and an incidence angle of 45 degrees. >>> >>> The energy of the collision is 1.20 x 10^24 Joules >>> or 268,000,000 MegaTons TNT. The Calculator says >>> "The average interval between impacts of this size >>> somewhere on Earth during the last 4 billion years >>> is 360,000,000 years." >>> >>> That energy is the equivalent of an explosion created >>> by detonating a nuclear arsenal 1800 times bigger >>> than the entire nuclear arsenals of all the nations of >>> the world -- at once. >>> >>> The final crater diameter is 39.5 km or 24.5 miles; >>> its final depth is 0.895 km or 0.556 miles. That seems >>> oddly small for something so big. Why is that? Well, >>> the Calculator says that the final crater is replaced >>> by a large, circular melt province. The volume of the >>> target melted or vaporized is 6410 cubic km or 1540 >>> cubic miles. The melt volume is 2.87 times the >>> crater volume >>> >>> If 114 Kassandra hit Los Angeles, you'd probably be >>> alright (for a while) if you were in New York City (or >>> Boston). You'd be alright, that is, if you can withstand >>> the shock wave which, at that distance, would have >>> a wind velocity of 140 mph, or a hurricane-level >>> Force Nine Gale on the Beaufort Scale. Where I live, >>> it'll be over 205 mph. >>> >>> The real problem, I suspect, is in the vaporization of >>> a substantial percentage of that "melt province." If >>> 10% of the rock vaporized, or 1.5 trillion tons of rock >>> vapor would be distributed very quickly through the >>> atmosphere at temperatures of more than 2000 >>> degrees F. That quantity of rock vapor amounts to >>> about 20,000 tons of rock vapor per square mile >>> of the Earth's surface. >>> >>> The Impact Calculator does not discuss the contribution >>> of the asteroid to the mass of rock vapor. I would suggest >>> that at least 1% of it would survive as "mere" rock vapor >>> (instead of plasma) -- that's an additional ten trillion tons, >>> raising the distribution to 110,000 tons of rock vapor per >>> square mile of the Earth's surface (about 190,000,000 >>> square miles). >>> >>> I suggest a very study, fireproofed umbrella would >>> be a good idea if you plan on going out... >>> >>> This is an impact at least 30 to 50 times worse than >>> the Chicxulub Impact which, it has been suggested, >>> burned most of the vegetation off the planet with its >>> rock vapor plume. 114 Kassandra's effect could only >>> be characterized as the "Krispy Kritter" impact. >>> >>> It sounds like a a lousy environment in which to >>> stage a mini-series. But... That's Entertainment! >>> >>> >>> >>> Sterling K. Webb >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ------ Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:03 PM >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV >>> event >>> >>> >>> If Kleopatra were to hit the Earth (at least that is what I get out >>> of >>> the >>> main page), we would be in big trouble. For those of you who do not >>> remember, 216 Kleopatra, thanks to radar observations, looks very >>> much >>> like a big dog bone, 220 kilometers long and 100 kilometers across. >>> >>> Larry >>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Darren Garrison" >>> To: "Meteorite List" >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:38 AM >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event >>> >>> >>>> http://www.movieweb.com/news/NEn3LrswY8Zyro >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> > From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 2 01:23:03 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 00:23:03 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den> <8dc0bd125d3f09b1a045d9fcc01c4f51.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> <0dcf96a28d1a7a3eb56a8afeee76e599.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Hi, Larry, List, The Melosh model says this is a "once-in-a-lifetime" event, meaning once in 4 billion years. That however would not include that first 500 or 600 million years, the Hadean Era. At some point, this and bigger events must have happened to the Earth. One has only to look at the Moon and its visible record. For every basin we see there, picture 18 just like it on the Earth. I suspect the rock-melting calculations of the model are flawed at this scale. Punching though (or deep enough into) the crust would not let anything be buried. Instead, the release of pressure on the high-pressure high-temperature interior would cause it to melt, boil and explode outward. It would expose the near-molten rock at 30 km down, which is at a pressure of 150,000 pounds per square inch, to the vacuum of deep space (for all practical purposes, our atmosphere doesn't count). Gravity need not be taken into account in the gas laws, but in a planetary body it is the source of all interior pressure, right down to the 52,500,000 pounds per square inch found at the center of the Earth. I suspect that puncturing the thin but very rigid skin of a planet would produce not merely basalt flooding, but initially an immense "fire-fountain" type of volcano that would blast material right out through the atmosphere. What a sight that would be! I suspect you'd want to watch from high orbit or maybe the Moon, though. Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Sterling K. Webb" Cc: ; ; "Meteorite List" Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event > Hi Sterling: > > Sounds more reasonable, if destroying everything is reasonable. > > Any idea how often these occur? This is 5 times the diameter of either > Sudbury or Vredefort and these are more than a billion years old. > > Maybe this is big enough to punch through the mantle and bury itself > in > magma. > > > Larry > > >> Hi, Larry, List, >> >> Yes, I am WRONG! However, my mistake was not the >> one you hypothesized. The Wikipedia gives mass in >> kilograms and I reduced the quantity by 1000 to >> convert it to tons (10^18 kg = 10^15 metric tons), >> correctly. >> >> No, it was density. I think in grams per cubic centimeter >> when I think density. Water = 1.0, rock = 2.5, and >> so forth. The training is strong; one thinks in specific >> density. But the online Calculator wants kilograms >> per cubic meter, where water = 1000, rock = 2500, and >> so forth. >> >> So I calculated the impact of a 100 kilometer diameter >> SNOWFLAKE ! One with a specific density of about >> 0.022, a little fat for a snowflake, actually... So, if you >> ever want to know what impact a really big snowflake >> would have, you've got it now. >> >> The actual figures? The energy is 304,000,000,000 >> megatons. The crater is 1240 km (770 miles) across >> and would be 2500 meters deep before it fills with >> melt. The impact would melt 2,000,000 CUBIC MILES >> of the Earth's crust, and the melt zone extends to a >> depth of 35 kilometers, which in some places would >> take it down into the mantle itself, and it would >> certainly rebound and produce basalt flooding of >> incomprehensible magnitude, likely enough to flood >> and re-surface an entire continent. The "crater" >> would be a complex multi-ringed basin about the >> same size as the Moon's Mare Imbrium! >> >> Big enough for you now? >> >> This is a continent destroyer. The shock of the impact, >> would be a world-wide Richter Scale 12.3, strong enough >> to kill all animal life. The wind at the antipodeal point to >> the impact would be 385 mph. At just a quarter of the way >> around the planet (10,000 km away), the winds would >> be 835 mph. >> >> The fireball of the impact would be over 300 kilometers >> in diameter (190 miles) and it would be visible for 5570 >> kilometers (3500 miles). The thermal flux would be 53 >> times brighter than the Sun and everything organic within >> the line of sight would combust. This fireball would persist >> for nearly 8 hours (7 hours 42 minutes) before cooling >> enough to collapse. The shock wave there (3500 miles >> away) would be over 2000 mph, or about Mach 3. >> >> Major extinction event, clearly. >> >> I can't speak to the roaches; no one knows what it takes >> to wipe them out, if indeed it's even possible. Still, at >> the worst, the sulfur-eating thermophiles in the deep >> vents would survive just fine, fat and happy, and they >> could start this evolution thing all over again, something >> they've probably had to do before, as the universal inclusion >> of the 16S rna ribosome in most living things attests to. >> >> A little better? >> >> >> Sterling K. Webb >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "Sterling K. Webb" >> Cc: ; "Meteorite List" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV >> event >> >> >>> Hi Sterling: >>> >>> I will admit that, at first, I got the wrong asteroid (though now >>> more >>> interesting composition) and I am never one to say you are wrong, >>> but... >>> >>> YOU ARE WRONG!!!!! >>> >>> Sorry, that felt good! >>> >>> If you go by Wikipedia, you lost 3 zeros 1x10^18 bit 1X10^15. It >>> would >>> be >>> had to believe that a 100-km diameter object (give or take) would >>> make >>> a >>> 40-km hole in the ground unless it was going real slow and hit a >>> really >>> hard surface. >>> >>> Somthing that big would probably make a hole 1000 km or so across >>> (at >>> least), which would make it a bad day even for the roaches. >>> >>> Oh, did I forget to mention: >>> >>> You are wrong! It is a rare day that I get to say that to you >>> Sterling, >>> sorry. >>> >>> Larry >>> >>>> Hi, List, >>>> >>>> To quantify that impact, I went and ran the numbers >>>> through the online Impact Calculator that uses the >>>> Jay Melosh model: >>>> http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/ >>>> >>>> If 216 Kleopatra is 220 km x 100 km x 100 km, its >>>> volume is 17,278,875.96 km^3 or a total of (take a >>>> deep breath) 1,778,875,960,000,000 m^3. That's >>>> 1.7 quadrillion cubic meters and its mass would be at >>>> least 3.5 quadrillion metric tons. (Dogbone and Potato >>>> asteroids have lots of voids and a high porosity.) >>>> >>>> No, wait! It's 114 Kassandra? Get your Apocalypses >>>> straight, people! >>>> >>>> The volume of 114 Kassandra is less than Kleopatra: >>>> 523,598,644,700,000 cubic meters. The mass of >>>> 114 Kassandra, if rock, has to be at a minimum of >>>> 1,500,000,000,000,000 tons, although some sources >>>> say it's only 1,000,000,000,000,000. That big number >>>> is a Quadrillion tons, in case you want to know. >>>> >>>> OK, it's Kassandra! Smaller, lighter. Really puny. >>>> I gave it an intercept velocity of 47 km/s, a little >>>> slow for an eccentric orbit from the Asteroid Zone, >>>> and an incidence angle of 45 degrees. >>>> >>>> The energy of the collision is 1.20 x 10^24 Joules >>>> or 268,000,000 MegaTons TNT. The Calculator says >>>> "The average interval between impacts of this size >>>> somewhere on Earth during the last 4 billion years >>>> is 360,000,000 years." >>>> >>>> That energy is the equivalent of an explosion created >>>> by detonating a nuclear arsenal 1800 times bigger >>>> than the entire nuclear arsenals of all the nations of >>>> the world -- at once. >>>> >>>> The final crater diameter is 39.5 km or 24.5 miles; >>>> its final depth is 0.895 km or 0.556 miles. That seems >>>> oddly small for something so big. Why is that? Well, >>>> the Calculator says that the final crater is replaced >>>> by a large, circular melt province. The volume of the >>>> target melted or vaporized is 6410 cubic km or 1540 >>>> cubic miles. The melt volume is 2.87 times the >>>> crater volume >>>> >>>> If 114 Kassandra hit Los Angeles, you'd probably be >>>> alright (for a while) if you were in New York City (or >>>> Boston). You'd be alright, that is, if you can withstand >>>> the shock wave which, at that distance, would have >>>> a wind velocity of 140 mph, or a hurricane-level >>>> Force Nine Gale on the Beaufort Scale. Where I live, >>>> it'll be over 205 mph. >>>> >>>> The real problem, I suspect, is in the vaporization of >>>> a substantial percentage of that "melt province." If >>>> 10% of the rock vaporized, or 1.5 trillion tons of rock >>>> vapor would be distributed very quickly through the >>>> atmosphere at temperatures of more than 2000 >>>> degrees F. That quantity of rock vapor amounts to >>>> about 20,000 tons of rock vapor per square mile >>>> of the Earth's surface. >>>> >>>> The Impact Calculator does not discuss the contribution >>>> of the asteroid to the mass of rock vapor. I would suggest >>>> that at least 1% of it would survive as "mere" rock vapor >>>> (instead of plasma) -- that's an additional ten trillion tons, >>>> raising the distribution to 110,000 tons of rock vapor per >>>> square mile of the Earth's surface (about 190,000,000 >>>> square miles). >>>> >>>> I suggest a very study, fireproofed umbrella would >>>> be a good idea if you plan on going out... >>>> >>>> This is an impact at least 30 to 50 times worse than >>>> the Chicxulub Impact which, it has been suggested, >>>> burned most of the vegetation off the planet with its >>>> rock vapor plume. 114 Kassandra's effect could only >>>> be characterized as the "Krispy Kritter" impact. >>>> >>>> It sounds like a a lousy environment in which to >>>> stage a mini-series. But... That's Entertainment! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sterling K. Webb >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ------ Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:03 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV >>>> event >>>> >>>> >>>> If Kleopatra were to hit the Earth (at least that is what I get out >>>> of >>>> the >>>> main page), we would be in big trouble. For those of you who do not >>>> remember, 216 Kleopatra, thanks to radar observations, looks very >>>> much >>>> like a big dog bone, 220 kilometers long and 100 kilometers across. >>>> >>>> Larry >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Darren Garrison" >>>> To: "Meteorite List" >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:38 AM >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event >>>> >>>> >>>>> http://www.movieweb.com/news/NEn3LrswY8Zyro >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>> >>> >> > > From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jul 2 02:49:29 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:49:29 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event In-Reply-To: References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den> <8dc0bd125d3f09b1a045d9fcc01c4f51.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> <0dcf96a28d1a7a3eb56a8afeee76e599.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: I discovered that this is already available for download on The Dark Underbelly of the internet. I'm not masochistic enough to watch the whole thing (on sampling around the acting, dialog and writing is fully as awful as the clips illustrate) but I did want to see how the whole issue was resolved. So, to save the rest of you the pain of having to watch one minute too much of this (okay, one minute IS too much of this) here is The Plot Resolution Wherein The Earth Is Destroyed (Or Is It?): http://www.sendspace.com/file/qz4a86 From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 2 02:15:50 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 01:15:50 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den><8dc0bd125d3f09b1a045d9fcc01c4f51.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu><0dcf96a28d1a7a3eb56a8afeee76e599.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <07EE65C58B174F439F12AF9E9D2B6760@ATARIENGINE2> That was truly horrible. People who say the 1950's was the age of bad SciFi movies are wrong. A few more as bad as this and we will be the winners of the "Bad" title. It isn't just bad, it's silly. Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:49 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event >I discovered that this is already available for download on The Dark >Underbelly > of the internet. I'm not masochistic enough to watch the whole thing > (on > sampling around the acting, dialog and writing is fully as awful as > the clips > illustrate) but I did want to see how the whole issue was resolved. > So, to save > the rest of you the pain of having to watch one minute too much of > this (okay, > one minute IS too much of this) here is The Plot Resolution Wherein > The Earth Is > Destroyed (Or Is It?): > > http://www.sendspace.com/file/qz4a86 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Thu Jul 2 06:24:37 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 06:24:37 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 2, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_2_2009.html __________________________ **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) From claudiu at tanaselia.ro Thu Jul 2 06:39:06 2009 From: claudiu at tanaselia.ro (Claudiu Tanaselia) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 13:39:06 +0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] New ASTER Global Satellite Digital Elevation Model Data Now Available Online In-Reply-To: <590770.5428.qm@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <590770.5428.qm@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Should we expect updated maps in World Wind and/or Google Maps? On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 10:43 PM, Paul wrote: > > Articles that describe this new global Digital Elevation Model (DEM) dataset are: > > 1. Most Complete Earth Map Published, BBC News, June 30, 2009 > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8126197.stm > > 2. Most Complete Topographic Map of Earth, GM International > > http://www.gim-international.com/news/id3889-Most_Complete_Topographic_Map_of_Earth.html > > "NASA and Japan released a new digital topographic map of Earth Monday > that covers more of our planet than ever before. The map was produced with > detailed measurements from NASA's Terra spacecraft. The new global digital > elevation model of Earth was created from nearly 1.3 million individual > stereo-pair images collected by the Japanese Advanced Spaceborne Thermal > Emission and Reflection Radiometer, or ASTER, instrument aboard Terra. > NASA and Japan's Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI), > developed the data set. It is available online to users everywhere at no cost." > > Homepages for the ASTER Global DEM are: > > http://www.gdem.aster.ersdac.or.jp/ > > https://wist.echo.nasa.gov/~wist/api/imswelcome/ > > https://wist.echo.nasa.gov/wist-bin/api/ims.cgi?mode=MAINSRCH&JS=1 > > Yours, > > Paul V. Heinrich > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From waltbranch at bellsouth.net Thu Jul 2 06:57:30 2009 From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 06:57:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake References: Message-ID: <7F58DB68F69C41AAA70649BA6A6C12EE@yourf78bf48ce2> Ahhh, I see. Thanks Carl, And just to keep this meteorite related, fellow list members, here is the movie The Monolith Monsters. I consider this to be the best meteorite-related SciFi movie from the 1950s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mbuSLODgb4 Be sure to watch al the parts. -Walter Branch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl 's" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake Hi Walter and All, To see a young L. Nimoy, look at the 3 minute mark on youtube, THEM!(1954) Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdqIiF8uj5M&feature=PlayList&p=F6FFC5E5C7E45151&index=5 Carl Sean wrote: >Check out entry #108 Them! (1954) (uncredited) .... Air Force Sergeant >Wait a minute. I pride myself on knowing Classic scifi/horror (if you a familier with Plan 9 From Outer Space you are in the club too) but I dont' remember Nimoy bing in Them. Which character was he? -Walter Branch _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Thu Jul 2 07:11:51 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 04:11:51 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event In-Reply-To: References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den> <8dc0bd125d3f09b1a045d9fcc01c4f51.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> <0dcf96a28d1a7a3eb56a8afeee76e599.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <88efc59aeaf9f1016a9a196530a80614.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi Sterling: Lots of things probably hit the Earth early on, including something that made the Moon. Given what the Moon looks like, just think about what the Earth looked like after the late heavy bombardment. In the back of my mind, there is always the idea of the Deccan Traps being the result of a big impact! Or not. Larry > Hi, Larry, List, > > The Melosh model says this is a "once-in-a-lifetime" > event, meaning once in 4 billion years. That however > would not include that first 500 or 600 million years, > the Hadean Era. > > At some point, this and bigger events must have > happened to the Earth. One has only to look at > the Moon and its visible record. For every basin > we see there, picture 18 just like it on the Earth. > > I suspect the rock-melting calculations of the model > are flawed at this scale. Punching though (or deep > enough into) the crust would not let anything be > buried. Instead, the release of pressure on the > high-pressure high-temperature interior would > cause it to melt, boil and explode outward. It > would expose the near-molten rock at 30 km down, > which is at a pressure of 150,000 pounds per square > inch, to the vacuum of deep space (for all practical > purposes, our atmosphere doesn't count). > > Gravity need not be taken into account in the > gas laws, but in a planetary body it is the source > of all interior pressure, right down to the 52,500,000 > pounds per square inch found at the center of the > Earth. I suspect that puncturing the thin but very > rigid skin of a planet would produce not merely basalt > flooding, but initially an immense "fire-fountain" type > of volcano that would blast material right out through > the atmosphere. What a sight that would be! I suspect > you'd want to watch from high orbit or maybe > the Moon, though. > > > Sterling K. Webb > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Sterling K. Webb" > Cc: ; ; "Meteorite List" > > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:17 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event > > >> Hi Sterling: >> >> Sounds more reasonable, if destroying everything is reasonable. >> >> Any idea how often these occur? This is 5 times the diameter of either >> Sudbury or Vredefort and these are more than a billion years old. >> >> Maybe this is big enough to punch through the mantle and bury itself >> in >> magma. >> >> >> Larry >> >> >>> Hi, Larry, List, >>> >>> Yes, I am WRONG! However, my mistake was not the >>> one you hypothesized. The Wikipedia gives mass in >>> kilograms and I reduced the quantity by 1000 to >>> convert it to tons (10^18 kg = 10^15 metric tons), >>> correctly. >>> >>> No, it was density. I think in grams per cubic centimeter >>> when I think density. Water = 1.0, rock = 2.5, and >>> so forth. The training is strong; one thinks in specific >>> density. But the online Calculator wants kilograms >>> per cubic meter, where water = 1000, rock = 2500, and >>> so forth. >>> >>> So I calculated the impact of a 100 kilometer diameter >>> SNOWFLAKE ! One with a specific density of about >>> 0.022, a little fat for a snowflake, actually... So, if you >>> ever want to know what impact a really big snowflake >>> would have, you've got it now. >>> >>> The actual figures? The energy is 304,000,000,000 >>> megatons. The crater is 1240 km (770 miles) across >>> and would be 2500 meters deep before it fills with >>> melt. The impact would melt 2,000,000 CUBIC MILES >>> of the Earth's crust, and the melt zone extends to a >>> depth of 35 kilometers, which in some places would >>> take it down into the mantle itself, and it would >>> certainly rebound and produce basalt flooding of >>> incomprehensible magnitude, likely enough to flood >>> and re-surface an entire continent. The "crater" >>> would be a complex multi-ringed basin about the >>> same size as the Moon's Mare Imbrium! >>> >>> Big enough for you now? >>> >>> This is a continent destroyer. The shock of the impact, >>> would be a world-wide Richter Scale 12.3, strong enough >>> to kill all animal life. The wind at the antipodeal point to >>> the impact would be 385 mph. At just a quarter of the way >>> around the planet (10,000 km away), the winds would >>> be 835 mph. >>> >>> The fireball of the impact would be over 300 kilometers >>> in diameter (190 miles) and it would be visible for 5570 >>> kilometers (3500 miles). The thermal flux would be 53 >>> times brighter than the Sun and everything organic within >>> the line of sight would combust. This fireball would persist >>> for nearly 8 hours (7 hours 42 minutes) before cooling >>> enough to collapse. The shock wave there (3500 miles >>> away) would be over 2000 mph, or about Mach 3. >>> >>> Major extinction event, clearly. >>> >>> I can't speak to the roaches; no one knows what it takes >>> to wipe them out, if indeed it's even possible. Still, at >>> the worst, the sulfur-eating thermophiles in the deep >>> vents would survive just fine, fat and happy, and they >>> could start this evolution thing all over again, something >>> they've probably had to do before, as the universal inclusion >>> of the 16S rna ribosome in most living things attests to. >>> >>> A little better? >>> >>> >>> Sterling K. Webb >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "Sterling K. Webb" >>> Cc: ; "Meteorite List" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:03 PM >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV >>> event >>> >>> >>>> Hi Sterling: >>>> >>>> I will admit that, at first, I got the wrong asteroid (though now >>>> more >>>> interesting composition) and I am never one to say you are wrong, >>>> but... >>>> >>>> YOU ARE WRONG!!!!! >>>> >>>> Sorry, that felt good! >>>> >>>> If you go by Wikipedia, you lost 3 zeros 1x10^18 bit 1X10^15. It >>>> would >>>> be >>>> had to believe that a 100-km diameter object (give or take) would >>>> make >>>> a >>>> 40-km hole in the ground unless it was going real slow and hit a >>>> really >>>> hard surface. >>>> >>>> Somthing that big would probably make a hole 1000 km or so across >>>> (at >>>> least), which would make it a bad day even for the roaches. >>>> >>>> Oh, did I forget to mention: >>>> >>>> You are wrong! It is a rare day that I get to say that to you >>>> Sterling, >>>> sorry. >>>> >>>> Larry >>>> >>>>> Hi, List, >>>>> >>>>> To quantify that impact, I went and ran the numbers >>>>> through the online Impact Calculator that uses the >>>>> Jay Melosh model: >>>>> http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/ >>>>> >>>>> If 216 Kleopatra is 220 km x 100 km x 100 km, its >>>>> volume is 17,278,875.96 km^3 or a total of (take a >>>>> deep breath) 1,778,875,960,000,000 m^3. That's >>>>> 1.7 quadrillion cubic meters and its mass would be at >>>>> least 3.5 quadrillion metric tons. (Dogbone and Potato >>>>> asteroids have lots of voids and a high porosity.) >>>>> >>>>> No, wait! It's 114 Kassandra? Get your Apocalypses >>>>> straight, people! >>>>> >>>>> The volume of 114 Kassandra is less than Kleopatra: >>>>> 523,598,644,700,000 cubic meters. The mass of >>>>> 114 Kassandra, if rock, has to be at a minimum of >>>>> 1,500,000,000,000,000 tons, although some sources >>>>> say it's only 1,000,000,000,000,000. That big number >>>>> is a Quadrillion tons, in case you want to know. >>>>> >>>>> OK, it's Kassandra! Smaller, lighter. Really puny. >>>>> I gave it an intercept velocity of 47 km/s, a little >>>>> slow for an eccentric orbit from the Asteroid Zone, >>>>> and an incidence angle of 45 degrees. >>>>> >>>>> The energy of the collision is 1.20 x 10^24 Joules >>>>> or 268,000,000 MegaTons TNT. The Calculator says >>>>> "The average interval between impacts of this size >>>>> somewhere on Earth during the last 4 billion years >>>>> is 360,000,000 years." >>>>> >>>>> That energy is the equivalent of an explosion created >>>>> by detonating a nuclear arsenal 1800 times bigger >>>>> than the entire nuclear arsenals of all the nations of >>>>> the world -- at once. >>>>> >>>>> The final crater diameter is 39.5 km or 24.5 miles; >>>>> its final depth is 0.895 km or 0.556 miles. That seems >>>>> oddly small for something so big. Why is that? Well, >>>>> the Calculator says that the final crater is replaced >>>>> by a large, circular melt province. The volume of the >>>>> target melted or vaporized is 6410 cubic km or 1540 >>>>> cubic miles. The melt volume is 2.87 times the >>>>> crater volume >>>>> >>>>> If 114 Kassandra hit Los Angeles, you'd probably be >>>>> alright (for a while) if you were in New York City (or >>>>> Boston). You'd be alright, that is, if you can withstand >>>>> the shock wave which, at that distance, would have >>>>> a wind velocity of 140 mph, or a hurricane-level >>>>> Force Nine Gale on the Beaufort Scale. Where I live, >>>>> it'll be over 205 mph. >>>>> >>>>> The real problem, I suspect, is in the vaporization of >>>>> a substantial percentage of that "melt province." If >>>>> 10% of the rock vaporized, or 1.5 trillion tons of rock >>>>> vapor would be distributed very quickly through the >>>>> atmosphere at temperatures of more than 2000 >>>>> degrees F. That quantity of rock vapor amounts to >>>>> about 20,000 tons of rock vapor per square mile >>>>> of the Earth's surface. >>>>> >>>>> The Impact Calculator does not discuss the contribution >>>>> of the asteroid to the mass of rock vapor. I would suggest >>>>> that at least 1% of it would survive as "mere" rock vapor >>>>> (instead of plasma) -- that's an additional ten trillion tons, >>>>> raising the distribution to 110,000 tons of rock vapor per >>>>> square mile of the Earth's surface (about 190,000,000 >>>>> square miles). >>>>> >>>>> I suggest a very study, fireproofed umbrella would >>>>> be a good idea if you plan on going out... >>>>> >>>>> This is an impact at least 30 to 50 times worse than >>>>> the Chicxulub Impact which, it has been suggested, >>>>> burned most of the vegetation off the planet with its >>>>> rock vapor plume. 114 Kassandra's effect could only >>>>> be characterized as the "Krispy Kritter" impact. >>>>> >>>>> It sounds like a a lousy environment in which to >>>>> stage a mini-series. But... That's Entertainment! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sterling K. Webb >>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> ------ Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: >>>>> Cc: >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:03 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV >>>>> event >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If Kleopatra were to hit the Earth (at least that is what I get out >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> main page), we would be in big trouble. For those of you who do not >>>>> remember, 216 Kleopatra, thanks to radar observations, looks very >>>>> much >>>>> like a big dog bone, 220 kilometers long and 100 kilometers across. >>>>> >>>>> Larry >>>>> >>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Darren Garrison" >>>>> To: "Meteorite List" >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:38 AM >>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> http://www.movieweb.com/news/NEn3LrswY8Zyro >>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Thu Jul 2 07:17:12 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 04:17:12 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event In-Reply-To: <07EE65C58B174F439F12AF9E9D2B6760@ATARIENGINE2> References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den><8dc0bd125d3f09b1a045d9fcc01c4f51.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu><0dcf96a28d1a7a3eb56a8afeee76e599.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> <07EE65C58B174F439F12AF9E9D2B6760@ATARIENGINE2> Message-ID: Hi Sterlng and Darren: Twilight Zone: Sterling's response to Darren came 30 minutes before Darren's email! I will be good and watch the movie. May be something to use in a class on bad science. On that note, did either of you make it through Impact!? Talk about lame endings. From the beginning you could tell who was wearing the red shirts (original Star Trek reference). Larry > That was truly horrible. People who say > the 1950's was the age of bad SciFi movies > are wrong. A few more as bad as this and > we will be the winners of the "Bad" title. > > It isn't just bad, it's silly. > > > Sterling K. Webb > -------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Darren Garrison" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:49 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event > > >>I discovered that this is already available for download on The Dark >>Underbelly >> of the internet. I'm not masochistic enough to watch the whole thing >> (on >> sampling around the acting, dialog and writing is fully as awful as >> the clips >> illustrate) but I did want to see how the whole issue was resolved. >> So, to save >> the rest of you the pain of having to watch one minute too much of >> this (okay, >> one minute IS too much of this) here is The Plot Resolution Wherein >> The Earth Is >> Destroyed (Or Is It?): >> >> http://www.sendspace.com/file/qz4a86 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteorites at online.nl Thu Jul 2 08:15:56 2009 From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 14:15:56 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Gibeon 3,1 KG. Message-ID: <775628166C6140F197DCB77568B1E484@laptop> Dear Listoids, For those interested: We have a 3,1 kg. Gibeon for sale. Ask for pictures and/or make an offer. This one goes cheap!! Cheers, Jan Holland IMCA #9833 From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 2 08:50:42 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 05:50:42 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event Message-ID: Hi Sterling and All, Too late. Here's a clip from a fairly recent movie from Japan. Check out the unforgettable battle around the asteroid belt. This from Godzilla vs Spacegodzilla (1994): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt7lS3FVGkA Sorry. Carl Sterling wrote: >That was truly horrible. People who say the 1950's was the age of bad SciFi movies are wrong. A few more as bad as this and we will be the winners of the "Bad" title. It isn't just bad, it's silly. _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jul 2 11:31:04 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 17:31:04 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?OT=3A_To_Andr=E9_Moutinho?= Message-ID: <001b01c9fb2a$1d421cc0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Sorry for abusing the list. (but I don't know to help myself otherwise). Yes Andr?, we received all your emails from April on. And I replied to all of them to all of your 3 email-addresses. Please check with your provider, what's going wrong. (The problem has to be on your side, we never had such problems before) The answer is: YES! Paypal-address is: stefan at meteoriten.com Many thanks, Martin From almitt at kconline.com Thu Jul 2 12:02:49 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:02:49 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event In-Reply-To: References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den> Message-ID: <46DC365CC0CC43E0A4AFEE143129EE5B@StarmanPC> Greetings, Seems to me if a big one came down and did break into mantle material that we might have a magma wave and simultaneous volcanic eruptions with some of the major volcanoes on Earth. Not that anyone would care at that point. --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sterling K. Webb" To: ; "Meteorite List" Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event > Hi, List, > > To quantify that impact, I went and ran the numbers > through the online Impact Calculator that uses the > Jay Melosh model: > http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/ > > If 216 Kleopatra is 220 km x 100 km x 100 km, its > volume is 17,278,875.96 km^3 or a total of (take a > deep breath) 1,778,875,960,000,000 m^3. That's > 1.7 quadrillion cubic meters and its mass would be at > least 3.5 quadrillion metric tons. (Dogbone and Potato > asteroids have lots of voids and a high porosity.) > > No, wait! It's 114 Kassandra? Get your Apocalypses > straight, people! > > The volume of 114 Kassandra is less than Kleopatra: > 523,598,644,700,000 cubic meters. The mass of > 114 Kassandra, if rock, has to be at a minimum of > 1,500,000,000,000,000 tons, although some sources > say it's only 1,000,000,000,000,000. That big number > is a Quadrillion tons, in case you want to know. > > OK, it's Kassandra! Smaller, lighter. Really puny. > I gave it an intercept velocity of 47 km/s, a little > slow for an eccentric orbit from the Asteroid Zone, > and an incidence angle of 45 degrees. > > The energy of the collision is 1.20 x 10^24 Joules > or 268,000,000 MegaTons TNT. The Calculator says > "The average interval between impacts of this size > somewhere on Earth during the last 4 billion years > is 360,000,000 years." > > That energy is the equivalent of an explosion created > by detonating a nuclear arsenal 1800 times bigger > than the entire nuclear arsenals of all the nations of > the world -- at once. > > The final crater diameter is 39.5 km or 24.5 miles; > its final depth is 0.895 km or 0.556 miles. That seems > oddly small for something so big. Why is that? Well, > the Calculator says that the final crater is replaced > by a large, circular melt province. The volume of the > target melted or vaporized is 6410 cubic km or 1540 > cubic miles. The melt volume is 2.87 times the > crater volume > > If 114 Kassandra hit Los Angeles, you'd probably be > alright (for a while) if you were in New York City (or > Boston). You'd be alright, that is, if you can withstand > the shock wave which, at that distance, would have > a wind velocity of 140 mph, or a hurricane-level > Force Nine Gale on the Beaufort Scale. Where I live, > it'll be over 205 mph. > > The real problem, I suspect, is in the vaporization of > a substantial percentage of that "melt province." If > 10% of the rock vaporized, or 1.5 trillion tons of rock > vapor would be distributed very quickly through the > atmosphere at temperatures of more than 2000 > degrees F. That quantity of rock vapor amounts to > about 20,000 tons of rock vapor per square mile > of the Earth's surface. > > The Impact Calculator does not discuss the contribution > of the asteroid to the mass of rock vapor. I would suggest > that at least 1% of it would survive as "mere" rock vapor > (instead of plasma) -- that's an additional ten trillion tons, > raising the distribution to 110,000 tons of rock vapor per > square mile of the Earth's surface (about 190,000,000 > square miles). > > I suggest a very study, fireproofed umbrella would > be a good idea if you plan on going out... > > This is an impact at least 30 to 50 times worse than > the Chicxulub Impact which, it has been suggested, > burned most of the vegetation off the planet with its > rock vapor plume. 114 Kassandra's effect could only > be characterized as the "Krispy Kritter" impact. > > It sounds like a a lousy environment in which to > stage a mini-series. But... That's Entertainment! From gle at verizon.net Thu Jul 2 12:13:07 2009 From: gle at verizon.net (Grant Elliott) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:13:07 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake References: <248D2FA94DB44E398E5662F3EF828CED@ASUS> Message-ID: <25FF14B589D24C73ABB817C45953329F@Grant> Sterling, I am old enough to have seen this film, first run, at my local movie house. To say the least, at that age, I was scared "spitless". It was great and memorable fun. Thanks for the Memories, Grant Elliott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sterling K. Webb" To: "Matthias B?rmann" ; "Jerry Flaherty" ; ; Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 6:04 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake For all the ant "lovers," I recommend the 1954 movie "THEM!" starring the venerable British actor Edmond Gwenn (b. 1877, first movie 1916) with early-career performances by James Whitmore, James Arness, Fess Parker and a host of character actors. And of course, hordes of very, very large ants. Sterling K. Webb From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jul 2 13:18:18 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:18:18 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event In-Reply-To: References: <8dc0bd125d3f09b1a045d9fcc01c4f51.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu><0dcf96a28d1a7a3eb56a8afeee76e599.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> <07EE65C58B174F439F12AF9E9D2B6760@ATARIENGINE2> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 04:17:12 -0700 (MST), you wrote: >Twilight Zone: Sterling's response to Darren came 30 minutes before >Darren's email! > Looks like he's finally getting the bugs worked out of his time machine! We will know it is fully functional when we can no longer remember our crushing defeat at Midway and the subsequent loss of the territories of Alaska and Hawaii. >On that note, did either of you make it through Impact!? Talk about lame >endings. From the beginning you could tell who was wearing the red shirts No, I never attempted to watch that. I may need to check out the ending, though. >(original Star Trek reference). You insult my Geek Cred, suah! From geoking at notkin.net Thu Jul 2 13:09:30 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:09:30 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Feature Article in Tucson's "Desert Leaf" Message-ID: <3F5E2E73-E32E-4582-88CE-2FE2A2F1F792@notkin.net> Dear LIstees: The summer issue of Tucson's "Desert Leaf" magazine arrived in town yesterday. The cover story is a feature article on meteorite hunting titled: "Chasing What Falls from the Sky." The article is based on a series of interviews I did with Tucson author Susan Dawson-Cook, and features photos by Leigh Anne DelRay, Caroline Palmer, and myself. "Desert Leaf" is very attractive, ultra-large format publication (think "Life" magazine) measuring 11 x 15 inches, so the photos are big and striking. The layout is excellent -- one of the better meteorite features I've seen in some time. For those of you who might like a copy for your meteorite library, I have a number of extras, and would be happy to mail them to anyone who is interested. If you'd like one, please PayPal me $3.00 domestic, $5.00 Canada, or $9.00 for overseas international Air Mail to cover our mailing costs. Sorry about the high mailing costs, but it's a big magazine and has to go in an oversize padded envelope. My PayPal address is: info at aerolite.org PLEASE do me a favor and include you shipping address in the message area with your payment. Addresses do not always automatically come through with PayPal payments. Also, please try clicking that "PERSONAL" tab when sending your payment, as recommended by one of our colleagues last week, and then maybe we won't have to pay fees on these. After all, I'm not selling a product or service, so that counts are personal, right? : ) If you would like to just read an online version of the article, you can find it here, but their PDF viewer interface is a little clunky: http://npaper-wehaa.com/desert-leaf#vw-1;dblpg -- and -- http://npaper-wehaa.com/desert-leaf#page-32 http://npaper-wehaa.com/desert-leaf#page-34 You scientists will notice a couple of small errors in the piece, but overall, I found it to be well written and enjoyable. Hope you agree. Regards to all, Geoff N. ***************** www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com www.meteoriteblog.org From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jul 2 14:46:38 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Phoenix Mission Research Points to Martian Climate Cycles Message-ID: <200907021846.n62Ikc79022017@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> FROM: Johnny Cruz (520-621-1879; cruzj at email.arizona.edu) Phoenix Mission Research Points to Martian Climate Cycles July 2, 2009 EDITOR'S NOTE: Peter Smith will be available to speak with local reporters today at 2 p.m. at the Phoenix Mission Science Operations Center, 1415 N. Sixth Ave., Tucson. Four papers in the journal Science this week offer new details about the history of water on Mars, gleaned from the 2008 NASA Phoenix Mars Mission that was operated from The University of Arizona. Peter H. Smith, a scientist with the UA Lunar and Planetary Laboratory and the mission's principal investigator, is the first author of "H2O at the Phoenix Landing Site" in Science. There are 35 co-authors from six countries on the paper. Smith and his group of scientists and students used the lander to investigate the role of water and ice on Mars, as well as the changing weather patterns. The popular mission launched in early August 2007. In May, 2008, early 10 months later, its landing trajectory was spectacularly captured by the HiRISE camera onboard the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. For the next five months, the UA Science Operations Center clattered with researchers gearing themselves to follow the Martian diurnal phases, which are about 40 minutes longer than day and night on Earth and enough to throw off human sleep schedules in short order. The landing site was an ejecta field. A comet or asteroid that crashed into the surface melted the ice below creating a sheet of dust and water that flowed across a shallow valley. Smith said that event also covered any large rocks that could have interfered with the ability of the Phoenix to safely land. Smith and his group found patterns in the ground near the lander, multi-sided shapes about three to ten meters in size. The shapes are created when the surface contracts and the ice cracks. Sand fills in the cracks before the ice expands and buckles the surface to make the distinctive patterns. Smith used the Phoenix lander's robotic arm to dig a series of trenches to expose subsurface ice and found that the ice in the centers of the polygons was fairly shallow, only a couple of inches deep. "But in the troughs in between, we went down as much as eight inches and never did find the ice underneath. We weren't able to dig further down because the robot arm was hitting against the side of the lander. It was not known ahead of time that there would be changes in the depth of the ice," he said. "We wanted to know the origin of the ice," Smith said. "It could have been the remnant of a larger polar ice cap that shrank; could have been a frozen ocean; could have been a snowfall frozen into the ground," he said. "The most likely theory is that water vapor from the atmosphere slowly diffused into the surface and froze at the level where the temperature matches the frost point. We expected that was probably the source of the ice, but some of what we found was surprising." One of the surprises was finding perchlorate. "Perchlorate was not predicted at this landing site and nobody had it on their list of likely chemicals. There was a very high concentration of it, higher than the salts we might have expected like sodium chloride (table salt). As an oxidized state of chlorine, it has interesting properties including a strong affinity for water. On Earth, microbes use it as a chemical energy source." During the mission, Mars moved from summer to winter, giving Smith and others an unprecedented look at the planet's changing weather patterns, including frost and snow. "Frost was predicted, but snowfall was quite a welcome surprise," Smith said. "In summer there was a lot of dust in the atmosphere. As we neared fall, the dust cleared, and all of a sudden there were water ice clouds forming at about 4 km (2.5 mi.) above the surface. We could see the clouds scud by, moving through the camera field, and once we saw snow coming out of the bottom of a cloud. It was very exciting to watch the daily weather changes. No one has ever had this experience." Smith said there are clues that thin films of water modified the soil chemistry. Unlike Earth, Mars has an unstable spin axis, which currently is tilted at about 25 degrees from vertical. Perhaps five millions years ago, he said, it was tilted much more, which would have exposed the north pole to larger amounts of sunlight creating warmer, wetter conditions during summer. "During that previous climate, you would expect huge increase in the amounts of water vapor coming off the polar cap. If the cap goes unstable, you can have as much as three hundred times as much water in the atmosphere," Smith said. It would have been enough for snowdrifts. On hot summer days, melting snow could have formed thin films of water. Not enough for a lake or a river, but he said this could have been a time when damp soil provided a growth period for any microbes that learned to survive those long periods of dryness. "Who knows? Evolution is a powerful force. If life ever started on Mars, there are niches where still it could survive." CONTACTS: Peter Smith (520-621-2725; psmith at lpl.arizona.edu) Bill Boynton (520-621-6941; wboynton at lpl.arizona.edu) From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jul 2 14:49:36 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 11:49:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Clues to Origin of Life Revealed in Tagish Lake Meteorite Message-ID: <200907021849.n62Inaev023488@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/07/02/bc-tagish-lake-meteorite-formic-acid.html Clues to origin of life revealed in Tagish Lake meteorite CBC News (Canada) July 2, 2009 New research into a meteorite that crashed into northern British Columbia nine years ago is revealing startling clues that could help unravel the origins of life on earth. Parts of the Tagish Lake meteorite were found on a frozen lake near the Yukon border in January, 2000, after it fell to earth in a spectacular blue-green fireball that was seen for hundreds of kilometres. Parts of the meteorite were recovered still frozen after an extensive search by researchers. Since then, scientists have repeatedly tried to unlock the clues about the origins of life that the rare 4.5 billion-year-old carbon- and water-rich meteorite has long been suspected to contain. Now, a team at the University of Alberta has found some important material nestled inside the rock. It's formic acid ??? the key ingredient in bee stings, ant venom and stinging nettles, which may hold a key to unlocking the mystery of how life on earth began. U of A scientist Chris Herd says finding the molecule may have been instrumental in kick-starting life on earth, making the meteorite the most important rock ever found on earth. "Four billion years ago, when the earth had kind of cooled off from its initial hot state, and there was liquid water on the surface, we may have had an influx of meteorites like Tagish Lake [that] delivered the right mix of molecules to the earth's surface," he said. How exactly that mix might have turned into actual life is still a mystery, but Herd said the findings of formic acid on the meteorite may provide important clues. "It's a type of molecule known as a carboxylic acid. So it's sort of like the shortest, smallest molecule in that group. The longer molecules in this same group are actually what life uses in building cell walls." In 2001, U.S. exobiologist Sandra Pizzarello, who was studying some of the fragments from the Tagish meteorite at Arizona State University, said they contained almost no amino acids but did contain high concentrations of hydrocarbon molecules, along with a type of clay that forms in the presence of water. In 2006, Mike Zolensky, a cosmic mineralogist at the NASA Space Centre in Texas, said tiny bubbles in the rock were organic globules where the universe's earliest life forms could have been able to live. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jul 2 15:00:47 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:00:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - July 1, 2009 Message-ID: <200907021900.n62J0l08025024@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES July 1, 2009 o Martian Zambonis? http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013329_1070 o Gullies on Southwest Slope of Ring Trough in Noachis Terra http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012912_1320 o Layering and Faulting in Melas Chasma Layered Deposits http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012572_1685 o Light and Intermediate Toned Material Near Morava Valles http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012570_1670 o Light Toned Rugged Intercrater Area in Viking Images 637A36 and 635A94 http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012562_1545 o Faulting in South Polar Layered Deposits (ESP_012538_1070) http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012538_1070 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From epgrondine at yahoo.com Thu Jul 2 15:21:26 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:21:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Recent smaller impacts Message-ID: <937756.33328.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Paul - Are any of these events you mentioned timed to cometary debris streams? I suppose that some folks we know or know of have more definitive information on these events which they can not make public right now. My seat of the pants estimate is that the number dead in an accidental India-Pakistan nuclear exchange given in the wikipedia article is off by at least one order of magnitude, maybe two, or perhaps three. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas (a damned fine book if I do say so myself) PS 1 - Any news about when the NASA IG's report on Griffin's contempt of the Congress on the George Brown Jr Amendment will be in? PS 2 - Sterling, have you worked the numbers for the Kiscoty, Alberta crater? From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jul 2 17:26:02 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:26:02 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A futura awful meteorite related movie In-Reply-To: <46DC365CC0CC43E0A4AFEE143129EE5B@StarmanPC> References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den> <46DC365CC0CC43E0A4AFEE143129EE5B@StarmanPC> Message-ID: <3a9q459rtmn23tjrf75n3d0rq50j6ogon4@4ax.com> Okay, maybe I'm jumping the gun, and this will be the next Oscar-winning, compelling epic. But I'm thinking not. http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/07/asteroids-movie/ http://360.kombo.com/article.php?artid=16753 http://www.goriya.com/flash/asteroids/asteroids.shtml From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 2 16:47:54 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 15:47:54 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den> <8dc0bd125d3f09b1a045d9fcc01c4f51.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> <0dcf96a28d1a7a3eb56a8afeee76e599.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> <88efc59aeaf9f1016a9a196530a80614.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Hi, Larry, List, The Deccan Traps, so it seems, are now believed to have started and stopped and started over again, in irregular cycles, producing multiple layers. The layers date from 62 to 68 million years ago, with the peak eruptions at 66 million years ago and lasting for as little as 30,000 years. In the strata between outbursts, there are fossilized dinosaur nests and eggs, making the Traps an unlikely cause of their extinction anywhere but locally. The shock waves of Chicxulub focused through the planet have been modeled in the Sandia supercomputers. They suggest that impacts can start basalt flooding, or make small-scale volcanic flows into much bigger ones. The positions of the impact and the Deccan 63 million years ago are 120 degrees apart, which suggests an impact angle of 30 degrees, which -- coincidentally -- is the same angle derived from studies of the remnant crater in the Yucatan. The Siberian Traps are the world's largest. The eruptions lasted about 1,000,000 years. They span the Permian-Triassic boundary, just as the Deccan Traps span the K-T. Originally the Siberian Traps covered 7,000,000 square km, or 5% of the Earth's land surface. They span 25 degrees of latitude and 60 degrees of longitude. They were, at the time of their formation antipodal to Antarctica, where suggestions of a very large crater in Wilkes Land have been made. My guess is that focused impact shock makes an ordinary large volcanic episode that happens to be occurring in the right place become much more productive of lava and turn into a basalt flood. As major flood-basalt episodes correlate very well with extinctions and the more recent extinctions correlate very well with extinctions, it's asking a lot of coincidence for them to be accidental companions. There are no giant craters known to not have an extinction hanging around, and there are no giant basalt floods known to not have an extinction hanging around them as well, although there are extinctions without evidence of one or the other. (I'm working on the Venn diagram...) Flood basalts are detectable well back into the Archean Era; extinctions back to the Cambrian; but impact craters' survival for more than a few hundred million years is a matter of chance. Sudbury and Vredefort were emplaced in ancient cratons; that insured their survival. But craters are not related to the terrain in any way, being extraterrestrially random. And ya can't get more random than that. One can always find the kilometer-thick strata of flood basalts. One can find the fossil shifts of the last 550-700 million years. To demand that clear-cut craters carry the sole burden of proof, even in the most ancient cases, is in essence a gimmick to shift the argument to evidence known to be largely absent. I'm still working on that Venn diagram... Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Sterling K. Webb" Cc: ; ; "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event > Hi Sterling: > > Lots of things probably hit the Earth early on, including something > that > made the Moon. Given what the Moon looks like, just think about what > the > Earth looked like after the late heavy bombardment. > > In the back of my mind, there is always the idea of the Deccan Traps > being > the result of a big impact! Or not. > > Larry > >> Hi, Larry, List, >> >> The Melosh model says this is a "once-in-a-lifetime" >> event, meaning once in 4 billion years. That however >> would not include that first 500 or 600 million years, >> the Hadean Era. >> >> At some point, this and bigger events must have >> happened to the Earth. One has only to look at >> the Moon and its visible record. For every basin >> we see there, picture 18 just like it on the Earth. >> >> I suspect the rock-melting calculations of the model >> are flawed at this scale. Punching though (or deep >> enough into) the crust would not let anything be >> buried. Instead, the release of pressure on the >> high-pressure high-temperature interior would >> cause it to melt, boil and explode outward. It >> would expose the near-molten rock at 30 km down, >> which is at a pressure of 150,000 pounds per square >> inch, to the vacuum of deep space (for all practical >> purposes, our atmosphere doesn't count). >> >> Gravity need not be taken into account in the >> gas laws, but in a planetary body it is the source >> of all interior pressure, right down to the 52,500,000 >> pounds per square inch found at the center of the >> Earth. I suspect that puncturing the thin but very >> rigid skin of a planet would produce not merely basalt >> flooding, but initially an immense "fire-fountain" type >> of volcano that would blast material right out through >> the atmosphere. What a sight that would be! I suspect >> you'd want to watch from high orbit or maybe >> the Moon, though. >> >> >> Sterling K. Webb >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: "Sterling K. Webb" >> Cc: ; ; "Meteorite >> List" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:17 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV >> event >> >> >>> Hi Sterling: >>> >>> Sounds more reasonable, if destroying everything is reasonable. >>> >>> Any idea how often these occur? This is 5 times the diameter of >>> either >>> Sudbury or Vredefort and these are more than a billion years old. >>> >>> Maybe this is big enough to punch through the mantle and bury itself >>> in >>> magma. >>> >>> >>> Larry >>> >>> >>>> Hi, Larry, List, >>>> >>>> Yes, I am WRONG! However, my mistake was not the >>>> one you hypothesized. The Wikipedia gives mass in >>>> kilograms and I reduced the quantity by 1000 to >>>> convert it to tons (10^18 kg = 10^15 metric tons), >>>> correctly. >>>> >>>> No, it was density. I think in grams per cubic centimeter >>>> when I think density. Water = 1.0, rock = 2.5, and >>>> so forth. The training is strong; one thinks in specific >>>> density. But the online Calculator wants kilograms >>>> per cubic meter, where water = 1000, rock = 2500, and >>>> so forth. >>>> >>>> So I calculated the impact of a 100 kilometer diameter >>>> SNOWFLAKE ! One with a specific density of about >>>> 0.022, a little fat for a snowflake, actually... So, if you >>>> ever want to know what impact a really big snowflake >>>> would have, you've got it now. >>>> >>>> The actual figures? The energy is 304,000,000,000 >>>> megatons. The crater is 1240 km (770 miles) across >>>> and would be 2500 meters deep before it fills with >>>> melt. The impact would melt 2,000,000 CUBIC MILES >>>> of the Earth's crust, and the melt zone extends to a >>>> depth of 35 kilometers, which in some places would >>>> take it down into the mantle itself, and it would >>>> certainly rebound and produce basalt flooding of >>>> incomprehensible magnitude, likely enough to flood >>>> and re-surface an entire continent. The "crater" >>>> would be a complex multi-ringed basin about the >>>> same size as the Moon's Mare Imbrium! >>>> >>>> Big enough for you now? >>>> >>>> This is a continent destroyer. The shock of the impact, >>>> would be a world-wide Richter Scale 12.3, strong enough >>>> to kill all animal life. The wind at the antipodeal point to >>>> the impact would be 385 mph. At just a quarter of the way >>>> around the planet (10,000 km away), the winds would >>>> be 835 mph. >>>> >>>> The fireball of the impact would be over 300 kilometers >>>> in diameter (190 miles) and it would be visible for 5570 >>>> kilometers (3500 miles). The thermal flux would be 53 >>>> times brighter than the Sun and everything organic within >>>> the line of sight would combust. This fireball would persist >>>> for nearly 8 hours (7 hours 42 minutes) before cooling >>>> enough to collapse. The shock wave there (3500 miles >>>> away) would be over 2000 mph, or about Mach 3. >>>> >>>> Major extinction event, clearly. >>>> >>>> I can't speak to the roaches; no one knows what it takes >>>> to wipe them out, if indeed it's even possible. Still, at >>>> the worst, the sulfur-eating thermophiles in the deep >>>> vents would survive just fine, fat and happy, and they >>>> could start this evolution thing all over again, something >>>> they've probably had to do before, as the universal inclusion >>>> of the 16S rna ribosome in most living things attests to. >>>> >>>> A little better? >>>> >>>> >>>> Sterling K. Webb >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: >>>> To: "Sterling K. Webb" >>>> Cc: ; "Meteorite List" >>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:03 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV >>>> event >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi Sterling: >>>>> >>>>> I will admit that, at first, I got the wrong asteroid (though now >>>>> more >>>>> interesting composition) and I am never one to say you are wrong, >>>>> but... >>>>> >>>>> YOU ARE WRONG!!!!! >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, that felt good! >>>>> >>>>> If you go by Wikipedia, you lost 3 zeros 1x10^18 bit 1X10^15. It >>>>> would >>>>> be >>>>> had to believe that a 100-km diameter object (give or take) would >>>>> make >>>>> a >>>>> 40-km hole in the ground unless it was going real slow and hit a >>>>> really >>>>> hard surface. >>>>> >>>>> Somthing that big would probably make a hole 1000 km or so across >>>>> (at >>>>> least), which would make it a bad day even for the roaches. >>>>> >>>>> Oh, did I forget to mention: >>>>> >>>>> You are wrong! It is a rare day that I get to say that to you >>>>> Sterling, >>>>> sorry. >>>>> >>>>> Larry >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, List, >>>>>> >>>>>> To quantify that impact, I went and ran the numbers >>>>>> through the online Impact Calculator that uses the >>>>>> Jay Melosh model: >>>>>> http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/ >>>>>> >>>>>> If 216 Kleopatra is 220 km x 100 km x 100 km, its >>>>>> volume is 17,278,875.96 km^3 or a total of (take a >>>>>> deep breath) 1,778,875,960,000,000 m^3. That's >>>>>> 1.7 quadrillion cubic meters and its mass would be at >>>>>> least 3.5 quadrillion metric tons. (Dogbone and Potato >>>>>> asteroids have lots of voids and a high porosity.) >>>>>> >>>>>> No, wait! It's 114 Kassandra? Get your Apocalypses >>>>>> straight, people! >>>>>> >>>>>> The volume of 114 Kassandra is less than Kleopatra: >>>>>> 523,598,644,700,000 cubic meters. The mass of >>>>>> 114 Kassandra, if rock, has to be at a minimum of >>>>>> 1,500,000,000,000,000 tons, although some sources >>>>>> say it's only 1,000,000,000,000,000. That big number >>>>>> is a Quadrillion tons, in case you want to know. >>>>>> >>>>>> OK, it's Kassandra! Smaller, lighter. Really puny. >>>>>> I gave it an intercept velocity of 47 km/s, a little >>>>>> slow for an eccentric orbit from the Asteroid Zone, >>>>>> and an incidence angle of 45 degrees. >>>>>> >>>>>> The energy of the collision is 1.20 x 10^24 Joules >>>>>> or 268,000,000 MegaTons TNT. The Calculator says >>>>>> "The average interval between impacts of this size >>>>>> somewhere on Earth during the last 4 billion years >>>>>> is 360,000,000 years." >>>>>> >>>>>> That energy is the equivalent of an explosion created >>>>>> by detonating a nuclear arsenal 1800 times bigger >>>>>> than the entire nuclear arsenals of all the nations of >>>>>> the world -- at once. >>>>>> >>>>>> The final crater diameter is 39.5 km or 24.5 miles; >>>>>> its final depth is 0.895 km or 0.556 miles. That seems >>>>>> oddly small for something so big. Why is that? Well, >>>>>> the Calculator says that the final crater is replaced >>>>>> by a large, circular melt province. The volume of the >>>>>> target melted or vaporized is 6410 cubic km or 1540 >>>>>> cubic miles. The melt volume is 2.87 times the >>>>>> crater volume >>>>>> >>>>>> If 114 Kassandra hit Los Angeles, you'd probably be >>>>>> alright (for a while) if you were in New York City (or >>>>>> Boston). You'd be alright, that is, if you can withstand >>>>>> the shock wave which, at that distance, would have >>>>>> a wind velocity of 140 mph, or a hurricane-level >>>>>> Force Nine Gale on the Beaufort Scale. Where I live, >>>>>> it'll be over 205 mph. >>>>>> >>>>>> The real problem, I suspect, is in the vaporization of >>>>>> a substantial percentage of that "melt province." If >>>>>> 10% of the rock vaporized, or 1.5 trillion tons of rock >>>>>> vapor would be distributed very quickly through the >>>>>> atmosphere at temperatures of more than 2000 >>>>>> degrees F. That quantity of rock vapor amounts to >>>>>> about 20,000 tons of rock vapor per square mile >>>>>> of the Earth's surface. >>>>>> >>>>>> The Impact Calculator does not discuss the contribution >>>>>> of the asteroid to the mass of rock vapor. I would suggest >>>>>> that at least 1% of it would survive as "mere" rock vapor >>>>>> (instead of plasma) -- that's an additional ten trillion tons, >>>>>> raising the distribution to 110,000 tons of rock vapor per >>>>>> square mile of the Earth's surface (about 190,000,000 >>>>>> square miles). >>>>>> >>>>>> I suggest a very study, fireproofed umbrella would >>>>>> be a good idea if you plan on going out... >>>>>> >>>>>> This is an impact at least 30 to 50 times worse than >>>>>> the Chicxulub Impact which, it has been suggested, >>>>>> burned most of the vegetation off the planet with its >>>>>> rock vapor plume. 114 Kassandra's effect could only >>>>>> be characterized as the "Krispy Kritter" impact. >>>>>> >>>>>> It sounds like a a lousy environment in which to >>>>>> stage a mini-series. But... That's Entertainment! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sterling K. Webb >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ------ Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: >>>>>> To: >>>>>> Cc: >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:03 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV >>>>>> event >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If Kleopatra were to hit the Earth (at least that is what I get >>>>>> out >>>>>> of >>>>>> the >>>>>> main page), we would be in big trouble. For those of you who do >>>>>> not >>>>>> remember, 216 Kleopatra, thanks to radar observations, looks very >>>>>> much >>>>>> like a big dog bone, 220 kilometers long and 100 kilometers >>>>>> across. >>>>>> >>>>>> Larry >>>>>> >>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Darren Garrison" >>>>>> To: "Meteorite List" >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:38 AM >>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV >>>>>> event >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.movieweb.com/news/NEn3LrswY8Zyro >>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Thu Jul 2 19:34:27 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 16:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - 4th of July sale with great savings! Message-ID: <621954.86346.qm@web46404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi to all, hope everyone is having a good day! I have marked down several items listed on ebay to VERY good prices for the 4th of July. You will have a hard time finding better buys on these meteorites and the sale is good until July 6th when I will take the prices back up. You can view my meteorites listed on ebay here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1 The samples discounted will have "4th of July sale" in the listings. Off ebay sales of these (or any ebay listings), take 5% off the listed ebay price and free shipping. Also, a one time offer, good until July 5th... 5.9g NWA 4734 Lunar - off ebay price - for $5300! That said, hope everyone has a safe 4th of july weekend! Greg C. From grf2 at verizon.net Thu Jul 2 21:30:49 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:30:49 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com><46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den> <8dc0bd125d3f09b1a045d9fcc01c4f51.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> <0dcf96a28d1a7a3eb56a8afeee76e599.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> <88efc59aeaf9f1016a9a196530a80614.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Sterling, So much effort on your part to "solidify", what to me is tantamount to an obvious causal relationship between these cotemporaneous events. Not that all, isn't fair game in the name of "Science". Platonic a-priori reasoning is not well received in a "fundamentalist" rationalistic environment. But the shadows on the wall lead us to corroborate even what seems obvious. All of the previous threads imagining the results of a series of nightmarish events in our planet's history lay the groundwork for postulating such and such. So well done, Sterling and let's hope the 21st century doesn't include a pivotal conclusion to gain insight into the Grand Design in which we find ourselves. Jerry -------------------------------------------------- From: "Sterling K. Webb" Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 4:47 PM To: Cc: "Meteorite List" Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event > Hi, Larry, List, > > The Deccan Traps, so it seems, are now believed > to have started and stopped and started over again, > in irregular cycles, producing multiple layers. The > layers date from 62 to 68 million years ago, with > the peak eruptions at 66 million years ago and > lasting for as little as 30,000 years. In the strata > between outbursts, there are fossilized dinosaur > nests and eggs, making the Traps an unlikely cause > of their extinction anywhere but locally. > > The shock waves of Chicxulub focused through > the planet have been modeled in the Sandia > supercomputers. They suggest that impacts can > start basalt flooding, or make small-scale volcanic > flows into much bigger ones. The positions of the > impact and the Deccan 63 million years ago are > 120 degrees apart, which suggests an impact > angle of 30 degrees, which -- coincidentally -- > is the same angle derived from studies of the > remnant crater in the Yucatan. > > The Siberian Traps are the world's largest. The > eruptions lasted about 1,000,000 years. They span > the Permian-Triassic boundary, just as the Deccan > Traps span the K-T. Originally the Siberian Traps > covered 7,000,000 square km, or 5% of the Earth's > land surface. They span 25 degrees of latitude and > 60 degrees of longitude. They were, at the time of > their formation antipodal to Antarctica, where > suggestions of a very large crater in Wilkes Land > have been made. > > My guess is that focused impact shock makes > an ordinary large volcanic episode that happens > to be occurring in the right place become much > more productive of lava and turn into a basalt > flood. As major flood-basalt episodes correlate > very well with extinctions and the more recent > extinctions correlate very well with extinctions, > it's asking a lot of coincidence for them to be > accidental companions. There are no giant craters > known to not have an extinction hanging around, > and there are no giant basalt floods known to not > have an extinction hanging around them as well, > although there are extinctions without evidence > of one or the other. (I'm working on the Venn > diagram...) > > Flood basalts are detectable well back into the > Archean Era; extinctions back to the Cambrian; > but impact craters' survival for more than a few > hundred million years is a matter of chance. > Sudbury and Vredefort were emplaced in ancient > cratons; that insured their survival. But craters > are not related to the terrain in any way, being > extraterrestrially random. And ya can't get more > random than that. > > One can always find the kilometer-thick strata > of flood basalts. One can find the fossil shifts of > the last 550-700 million years. To demand that > clear-cut craters carry the sole burden of proof, > even in the most ancient cases, is in essence a > gimmick to shift the argument to evidence known > to be largely absent. > > I'm still working on that Venn diagram... > > > > Sterling K. Webb > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Sterling K. Webb" > Cc: ; ; "Meteorite List" > > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 6:11 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event > > >> Hi Sterling: >> >> Lots of things probably hit the Earth early on, including something that >> made the Moon. Given what the Moon looks like, just think about what the >> Earth looked like after the late heavy bombardment. >> >> In the back of my mind, there is always the idea of the Deccan Traps >> being >> the result of a big impact! Or not. >> >> Larry >> >>> Hi, Larry, List, >>> >>> The Melosh model says this is a "once-in-a-lifetime" >>> event, meaning once in 4 billion years. That however >>> would not include that first 500 or 600 million years, >>> the Hadean Era. >>> >>> At some point, this and bigger events must have >>> happened to the Earth. One has only to look at >>> the Moon and its visible record. For every basin >>> we see there, picture 18 just like it on the Earth. >>> >>> I suspect the rock-melting calculations of the model >>> are flawed at this scale. Punching though (or deep >>> enough into) the crust would not let anything be >>> buried. Instead, the release of pressure on the >>> high-pressure high-temperature interior would >>> cause it to melt, boil and explode outward. It >>> would expose the near-molten rock at 30 km down, >>> which is at a pressure of 150,000 pounds per square >>> inch, to the vacuum of deep space (for all practical >>> purposes, our atmosphere doesn't count). >>> >>> Gravity need not be taken into account in the >>> gas laws, but in a planetary body it is the source >>> of all interior pressure, right down to the 52,500,000 >>> pounds per square inch found at the center of the >>> Earth. I suspect that puncturing the thin but very >>> rigid skin of a planet would produce not merely basalt >>> flooding, but initially an immense "fire-fountain" type >>> of volcano that would blast material right out through >>> the atmosphere. What a sight that would be! I suspect >>> you'd want to watch from high orbit or maybe >>> the Moon, though. >>> >>> >>> Sterling K. Webb >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: "Sterling K. Webb" >>> Cc: ; ; "Meteorite List" >>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:17 PM >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event >>> >>> >>>> Hi Sterling: >>>> >>>> Sounds more reasonable, if destroying everything is reasonable. >>>> >>>> Any idea how often these occur? This is 5 times the diameter of either >>>> Sudbury or Vredefort and these are more than a billion years old. >>>> >>>> Maybe this is big enough to punch through the mantle and bury itself >>>> in >>>> magma. >>>> >>>> >>>> Larry >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi, Larry, List, >>>>> >>>>> Yes, I am WRONG! However, my mistake was not the >>>>> one you hypothesized. The Wikipedia gives mass in >>>>> kilograms and I reduced the quantity by 1000 to >>>>> convert it to tons (10^18 kg = 10^15 metric tons), >>>>> correctly. >>>>> >>>>> No, it was density. I think in grams per cubic centimeter >>>>> when I think density. Water = 1.0, rock = 2.5, and >>>>> so forth. The training is strong; one thinks in specific >>>>> density. But the online Calculator wants kilograms >>>>> per cubic meter, where water = 1000, rock = 2500, and >>>>> so forth. >>>>> >>>>> So I calculated the impact of a 100 kilometer diameter >>>>> SNOWFLAKE ! One with a specific density of about >>>>> 0.022, a little fat for a snowflake, actually... So, if you >>>>> ever want to know what impact a really big snowflake >>>>> would have, you've got it now. >>>>> >>>>> The actual figures? The energy is 304,000,000,000 >>>>> megatons. The crater is 1240 km (770 miles) across >>>>> and would be 2500 meters deep before it fills with >>>>> melt. The impact would melt 2,000,000 CUBIC MILES >>>>> of the Earth's crust, and the melt zone extends to a >>>>> depth of 35 kilometers, which in some places would >>>>> take it down into the mantle itself, and it would >>>>> certainly rebound and produce basalt flooding of >>>>> incomprehensible magnitude, likely enough to flood >>>>> and re-surface an entire continent. The "crater" >>>>> would be a complex multi-ringed basin about the >>>>> same size as the Moon's Mare Imbrium! >>>>> >>>>> Big enough for you now? >>>>> >>>>> This is a continent destroyer. The shock of the impact, >>>>> would be a world-wide Richter Scale 12.3, strong enough >>>>> to kill all animal life. The wind at the antipodeal point to >>>>> the impact would be 385 mph. At just a quarter of the way >>>>> around the planet (10,000 km away), the winds would >>>>> be 835 mph. >>>>> >>>>> The fireball of the impact would be over 300 kilometers >>>>> in diameter (190 miles) and it would be visible for 5570 >>>>> kilometers (3500 miles). The thermal flux would be 53 >>>>> times brighter than the Sun and everything organic within >>>>> the line of sight would combust. This fireball would persist >>>>> for nearly 8 hours (7 hours 42 minutes) before cooling >>>>> enough to collapse. The shock wave there (3500 miles >>>>> away) would be over 2000 mph, or about Mach 3. >>>>> >>>>> Major extinction event, clearly. >>>>> >>>>> I can't speak to the roaches; no one knows what it takes >>>>> to wipe them out, if indeed it's even possible. Still, at >>>>> the worst, the sulfur-eating thermophiles in the deep >>>>> vents would survive just fine, fat and happy, and they >>>>> could start this evolution thing all over again, something >>>>> they've probably had to do before, as the universal inclusion >>>>> of the 16S rna ribosome in most living things attests to. >>>>> >>>>> A little better? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sterling K. Webb >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: >>>>> To: "Sterling K. Webb" >>>>> Cc: ; "Meteorite List" >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:03 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV >>>>> event >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Sterling: >>>>>> >>>>>> I will admit that, at first, I got the wrong asteroid (though now >>>>>> more >>>>>> interesting composition) and I am never one to say you are wrong, >>>>>> but... >>>>>> >>>>>> YOU ARE WRONG!!!!! >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry, that felt good! >>>>>> >>>>>> If you go by Wikipedia, you lost 3 zeros 1x10^18 bit 1X10^15. It >>>>>> would >>>>>> be >>>>>> had to believe that a 100-km diameter object (give or take) would >>>>>> make >>>>>> a >>>>>> 40-km hole in the ground unless it was going real slow and hit a >>>>>> really >>>>>> hard surface. >>>>>> >>>>>> Somthing that big would probably make a hole 1000 km or so across >>>>>> (at >>>>>> least), which would make it a bad day even for the roaches. >>>>>> >>>>>> Oh, did I forget to mention: >>>>>> >>>>>> You are wrong! It is a rare day that I get to say that to you >>>>>> Sterling, >>>>>> sorry. >>>>>> >>>>>> Larry >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, List, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To quantify that impact, I went and ran the numbers >>>>>>> through the online Impact Calculator that uses the >>>>>>> Jay Melosh model: >>>>>>> http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/impacteffects/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If 216 Kleopatra is 220 km x 100 km x 100 km, its >>>>>>> volume is 17,278,875.96 km^3 or a total of (take a >>>>>>> deep breath) 1,778,875,960,000,000 m^3. That's >>>>>>> 1.7 quadrillion cubic meters and its mass would be at >>>>>>> least 3.5 quadrillion metric tons. (Dogbone and Potato >>>>>>> asteroids have lots of voids and a high porosity.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No, wait! It's 114 Kassandra? Get your Apocalypses >>>>>>> straight, people! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The volume of 114 Kassandra is less than Kleopatra: >>>>>>> 523,598,644,700,000 cubic meters. The mass of >>>>>>> 114 Kassandra, if rock, has to be at a minimum of >>>>>>> 1,500,000,000,000,000 tons, although some sources >>>>>>> say it's only 1,000,000,000,000,000. That big number >>>>>>> is a Quadrillion tons, in case you want to know. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> OK, it's Kassandra! Smaller, lighter. Really puny. >>>>>>> I gave it an intercept velocity of 47 km/s, a little >>>>>>> slow for an eccentric orbit from the Asteroid Zone, >>>>>>> and an incidence angle of 45 degrees. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The energy of the collision is 1.20 x 10^24 Joules >>>>>>> or 268,000,000 MegaTons TNT. The Calculator says >>>>>>> "The average interval between impacts of this size >>>>>>> somewhere on Earth during the last 4 billion years >>>>>>> is 360,000,000 years." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That energy is the equivalent of an explosion created >>>>>>> by detonating a nuclear arsenal 1800 times bigger >>>>>>> than the entire nuclear arsenals of all the nations of >>>>>>> the world -- at once. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The final crater diameter is 39.5 km or 24.5 miles; >>>>>>> its final depth is 0.895 km or 0.556 miles. That seems >>>>>>> oddly small for something so big. Why is that? Well, >>>>>>> the Calculator says that the final crater is replaced >>>>>>> by a large, circular melt province. The volume of the >>>>>>> target melted or vaporized is 6410 cubic km or 1540 >>>>>>> cubic miles. The melt volume is 2.87 times the >>>>>>> crater volume >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If 114 Kassandra hit Los Angeles, you'd probably be >>>>>>> alright (for a while) if you were in New York City (or >>>>>>> Boston). You'd be alright, that is, if you can withstand >>>>>>> the shock wave which, at that distance, would have >>>>>>> a wind velocity of 140 mph, or a hurricane-level >>>>>>> Force Nine Gale on the Beaufort Scale. Where I live, >>>>>>> it'll be over 205 mph. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The real problem, I suspect, is in the vaporization of >>>>>>> a substantial percentage of that "melt province." If >>>>>>> 10% of the rock vaporized, or 1.5 trillion tons of rock >>>>>>> vapor would be distributed very quickly through the >>>>>>> atmosphere at temperatures of more than 2000 >>>>>>> degrees F. That quantity of rock vapor amounts to >>>>>>> about 20,000 tons of rock vapor per square mile >>>>>>> of the Earth's surface. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Impact Calculator does not discuss the contribution >>>>>>> of the asteroid to the mass of rock vapor. I would suggest >>>>>>> that at least 1% of it would survive as "mere" rock vapor >>>>>>> (instead of plasma) -- that's an additional ten trillion tons, >>>>>>> raising the distribution to 110,000 tons of rock vapor per >>>>>>> square mile of the Earth's surface (about 190,000,000 >>>>>>> square miles). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I suggest a very study, fireproofed umbrella would >>>>>>> be a good idea if you plan on going out... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is an impact at least 30 to 50 times worse than >>>>>>> the Chicxulub Impact which, it has been suggested, >>>>>>> burned most of the vegetation off the planet with its >>>>>>> rock vapor plume. 114 Kassandra's effect could only >>>>>>> be characterized as the "Krispy Kritter" impact. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It sounds like a a lousy environment in which to >>>>>>> stage a mini-series. But... That's Entertainment! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sterling K. Webb >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> ------ Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: >>>>>>> To: >>>>>>> Cc: >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:03 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV >>>>>>> event >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If Kleopatra were to hit the Earth (at least that is what I get out >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> main page), we would be in big trouble. For those of you who do not >>>>>>> remember, 216 Kleopatra, thanks to radar observations, looks very >>>>>>> much >>>>>>> like a big dog bone, 220 kilometers long and 100 kilometers across. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Larry >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Darren Garrison" >>>>>>> To: "Meteorite List" >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 11:38 AM >>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Another awful meteorite-related TV event >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.movieweb.com/news/NEn3LrswY8Zyro >>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 2 21:33:38 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 18:33:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] freebies / sale/ AD Message-ID: <815772.27635.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi everyone.To all my american meteorite friends here and abroad,I want to wish everyone a happy 4th of july on saturday.I am also having another givaway in honor of the holiday,and getting my first pay check.I have a 40.5 gram unclassed endcut,I also have a 3.3 gram nuveo mercurio,I also have a 3 gram small complete gao,and finally a 20 gram fragment of tamdaght.Also forsale I have a 226 gram LAS PALMAS,argentina iron for?$75 and free shipping.Also I have decided to open the vault and sell my 22 gram slice of JAMESTOWN,NORTH DAKOTA.I have had this piece for 9 years.I got this piece from a friend who?was selling me meteorites and working as a astronomer professor at a local junior college.So stay tuned for pics and prices.Chime in quick for the freebies. ?Steve R. Arnold From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 2 22:52:14 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 19:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinions on an oddball meteorite I cut open Message-ID: <580849.29356.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Mike, I am coming in to this midstream--but if you can't see chondrules BUT can see metal flakes AND it is weakly attracted to a ND magnet, then this is strongly suggesting this isn't a meteorite. Some part of the things you've found don't seem to fit inside the normal wisdom. Elton From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Fri Jul 3 01:16:43 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 22:16:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] ISS volcano pictures - must see! Message-ID: <934953.60324.qm@web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Totally awesome images from the ISS that captured a volcano erupting in one of the Kuril Islands in the Russian Federation. http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw-200906-English.htm From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Fri Jul 3 04:30:06 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 9:30:06 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] ISS volcano pictures - must see! In-Reply-To: <934953.60324.qm@web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090703093006.V0CVP.222621.root@web06-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Amazing shots...you can actually see the progress of the debris and pyroplastic flows travelling down the lower valleys over just a few seconds in the sequence. Graham Ensor ---- Greg Catterton wrote: > > Totally awesome images from the ISS that captured a volcano erupting in one of the Kuril Islands in the Russian Federation. > > http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw-200906-English.htm > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Fri Jul 3 06:21:21 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 06:21:21 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 3, 2009 Message-ID: Rocks from Space Picture of the Day: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_3_2009.html Calendar: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/JULY_2009.html __________________________ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585087x1201462804/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) From pshugar at clearwire.net Fri Jul 3 12:48:56 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 11:48:56 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] test-delete Message-ID: test message after computer crash Pete From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jul 3 15:07:28 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:07:28 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Wholesale Message-ID: <4A4E56F0.7060703@meteoritesusa.com> Hello Listees, Dealers, A few days ago I sent and email requesting dealers who are interested in wholesale pricing on quality material to contact me offlist. I received 9 responses. Not bad... But I think we can do much better than that. My wholesale list only gets mailed out maybe once per week, and when I receive a new shipment. You will not be bothered by daily "sales" emails. Prices are fair and competitive. Quality of material is high, and from time to time I will offer some classified and average quality nwa at bargain prices. Shipping is fast, and material is packaged well. I've changed my business model to include a wholesale division of my company. I am a corporation, and not a sole proprietor, and have been incorporated since April of 2005 in Florida, USA. Dealers can join the wholesale list on my site at http://www.meteoritesusa.com/wholesale-list/ for more information. -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA 904-236-5394 From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Fri Jul 3 15:29:26 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 12:29:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting Message-ID: <82806.80596.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, I cannot tell you how many people have inquired about meteorite hunting here in beautiful, friendly and very hot Laughlin, Nevada, USA. Although it is in the middle of the very best meteorite hunting grounds in the Southwest, this is not the time of year to hunt. Gold basin, Franconia, Red Lake, Ivanpah and Primm, all within and hour or so drive may be 10 degrees Fahrenheit cooler but still well over 100 degrees on most days this time of year. Here is an example that illustrates just how hot it gets here. I looked at the temperature gauge on my back patio and it was maxed out at 120 degrees Fahrenheit in the shade although the local paper stated it only got up to 116 degrees. I always heard that it gets hot enough to fry eggs on rocks so I gave it a try on my patio. The results can be seen at the links below: Egg Frying On Porch Link: http://themeteoritesite.com/Z-Egg-a.jpg Close-up: http://themeteoritesite.com/Z-Egg-b.jpg It only took about 20 minutes to get the egg to over-easy. Imagine if this was your head. Be careful if you are brave enough to hunt in these conditions. Bring lots of water, sunscreen and protective clothing. Best Regards from the hottest meteorite hunting grounds in the United States, Adam From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jul 3 15:42:47 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:42:47 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting In-Reply-To: <82806.80596.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <82806.80596.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A4E5F37.1010000@meteoritesusa.com> Hi Adam, Now that's hot! So, where's the bacon? Hashbrowns? Eric Adam Hupe wrote: > Dear List Members, > > I cannot tell you how many people have inquired about meteorite hunting here in beautiful, friendly and very hot Laughlin, Nevada, USA. Although it is in the middle of the very best meteorite hunting grounds in the Southwest, this is not the time of year to hunt. Gold basin, Franconia, Red Lake, Ivanpah and Primm, all within and hour or so drive may be 10 degrees Fahrenheit cooler but still well over 100 degrees on most days this time of year. > > Here is an example that illustrates just how hot it gets here. I looked at the temperature gauge on my back patio and it was maxed out at 120 degrees Fahrenheit in the shade although the local paper stated it only got up to 116 degrees. I always heard that it gets hot enough to fry eggs on rocks so I gave it a try on my patio. The results can be seen at the links below: > > Egg Frying On Porch Link: > http://themeteoritesite.com/Z-Egg-a.jpg > > Close-up: > http://themeteoritesite.com/Z-Egg-b.jpg > > It only took about 20 minutes to get the egg to over-easy. Imagine if this was your head. Be careful if you are brave enough to hunt in these conditions. Bring lots of water, sunscreen and protective clothing. > > > Best Regards from the hottest meteorite hunting grounds in the United States, > > Adam > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 16:00:51 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 16:00:51 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting In-Reply-To: <82806.80596.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <82806.80596.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Adam and List, It reminds me of roofers working in the summer up on black tar paper. Right out of high school, I had a summer job in Florida doing lawn work. A friend of mine was a roofer. We both had to endure the merciless sun and choking humidity. We got into a friendly argument once over who had the hottest job. He won with a fried egg story to top them all. One July afternoon he was working on the roof of a mom and pop grocery store. During lunch break he went down and bought a half dozen eggs, a can of spam, and a loaf of bread. He then climbed back on the roof, put a piece of foil down on the black tar paper, and proceeded to cook fried spam and egg sandwiches for half of the crew. I don't know what impressed me more - the roof being hot enough to fry food, or coming back from lunch break and working in that heat with a belly full of fried eggs and meat. LOL Regards, MikeG On 7/3/09, Adam Hupe wrote: > > Dear List Members, > > I cannot tell you how many people have inquired about meteorite hunting here > in beautiful, friendly and very hot Laughlin, Nevada, USA. Although it is > in the middle of the very best meteorite hunting grounds in the Southwest, > this is not the time of year to hunt. Gold basin, Franconia, Red Lake, > Ivanpah and Primm, all within and hour or so drive may be 10 degrees > Fahrenheit cooler but still well over 100 degrees on most days this time of > year. > > Here is an example that illustrates just how hot it gets here. I looked at > the temperature gauge on my back patio and it was maxed out at 120 degrees > Fahrenheit in the shade although the local paper stated it only got up to > 116 degrees. I always heard that it gets hot enough to fry eggs on rocks so > I gave it a try on my patio. The results can be seen at the links below: > > Egg Frying On Porch Link: > http://themeteoritesite.com/Z-Egg-a.jpg > > Close-up: > http://themeteoritesite.com/Z-Egg-b.jpg > > It only took about 20 minutes to get the egg to over-easy. Imagine if this > was your head. Be careful if you are brave enough to hunt in these > conditions. Bring lots of water, sunscreen and protective clothing. > > > Best Regards from the hottest meteorite hunting grounds in the United > States, > > Adam > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Fri Jul 3 16:04:30 2009 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 13:04:30 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Vulcan, Canada and others Message-ID: <25B7B8CC1EA9414C81561CFFEDB1B4E3@Bandli1> http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/astroartifacts Good afternoon, Ending Sunday is the very rare Vulcan, Canada meteorite and a micro lot of Farmville, NC. Both with museum provenance. Also, some cute little UNWA's... Have a great weekend! Mike Bandli http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/astroartifacts From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jul 3 16:00:24 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 03 Jul 2009 20:00:24 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting Message-ID: Hi MikeG, Adam and List, Your roofers anecdote "reminds" me of those two Polish roofers on my neigbor's roof. He got new tiles and, although our temperatures have "only" been around 95 to 100?F during the last few days, you were sweating with every movement of your body because of the almost unbearable humidity (up to 81%). By the way, what's "spam" in this context? > proceeded to cook fried s p a m and egg sandwiches ... Best from Germany, Bernd From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 16:16:22 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 16:16:22 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Bernd, http://www.spam.com/ Spam is a canned meat of dubious value - it's one of those foods that people either love or hate. Spam was lampooned by British Comedy troupe Monty Python's Flying Circus - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_(Monty_Python) My dad used to love eating the stuff, but I never developed a taste for it. Best regards, MikeG On 03 Jul 2009 20:00:24 UT, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > Hi MikeG, Adam and List, > > Your roofers anecdote "reminds" me of those two Polish roofers on my > neigbor's > roof. He got new tiles and, although our temperatures have "only" been > around 95 > to 100?F during the last few days, you were sweating with every movement of > your > body because of the almost unbearable humidity (up to 81%). By the way, > what's > "spam" in this context? > >> proceeded to cook fried s p a m and egg sandwiches ... > > Best from Germany, > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From erikfwebb at msn.com Fri Jul 3 16:17:48 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 13:17:48 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting In-Reply-To: References: <82806.80596.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The heat isn't that bad at night. It's only 90 degrees at night with a warm breeze at franconia. Just strap a maglight to your detector and grab a head light and 20 AA batteries and your good. I've found that I find more at night because I wander aimlessly instead of hitting the spots that look good to everyone else who walks through the field. We hunted till 9am when it got up to 110 degrees and then we drove to Needles and slept in an ice cold motel room till the sun set before grabbing "breakfast" and heading back out to Franconia. Here is a video of a night hunt we did about a year ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5gDa6dJ5Ac [Erik] > On 7/3/09, Adam Hupe wrote: >> >> Dear List Members, >> >> I cannot tell you how many people have inquired about meteorite hunting here >> in beautiful, friendly and very hot Laughlin, Nevada, USA. Although it is >> in the middle of the very best meteorite hunting grounds in the Southwest, >> this is not the time of year to hunt. Gold basin, Franconia, Red Lake, >> Ivanpah and Primm, all within and hour or so drive may be 10 degrees >> Fahrenheit cooler but still well over 100 degrees on most days this time of >> year. >> >> Here is an example that illustrates just how hot it gets here. I looked at >> the temperature gauge on my back patio and it was maxed out at 120 degrees >> Fahrenheit in the shade although the local paper stated it only got up to >> 116 degrees. I always heard that it gets hot enough to fry eggs on rocks so >> I gave it a try on my patio. The results can be seen at the links below: >> >> Egg Frying On Porch Link: >> http://themeteoritesite.com/Z-Egg-a.jpg >> >> Close-up: >> http://themeteoritesite.com/Z-Egg-b.jpg >> >> It only took about 20 minutes to get the egg to over-easy. Imagine if this >> was your head. Be careful if you are brave enough to hunt in these >> conditions. Bring lots of water, sunscreen and protective clothing. >> >> >> Best Regards from the hottest meteorite hunting grounds in the United >> States, >> >> Adam >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jul 3 17:27:16 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:27:16 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A new gimmicky meteorite collectable In-Reply-To: <4A4E56F0.7060703@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A4E56F0.7060703@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: For those with deep pockets and a fondness for gimmicky meteorite collectables. http://features.csmonitor.com/books/2009/07/02/prices-on-mailers-moon-book-are-out-of-this-world/ From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Fri Jul 3 16:34:41 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:34:41 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting References: Message-ID: Bernd, SPAM is a modified meat product containing, according to the can from my cupboard, "Ham, Mechanically Separated Chicken, Water, Salt, Modified Potato Starch, Sugar, Sodium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Ascorbate, and Sodium Nitrite." It is a rectangle 9 cm by 9 cm by 4 cm, most easily cut into four 9 cm squares each one cm thick and about 85 grams in weight. Like WURST, one is better off not knowing what is in it, or watching it being made, but enjoying it in ignorance. Very tasty. Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting Hi MikeG, Adam and List, Your roofers anecdote "reminds" me of those two Polish roofers on my neigbor's roof. He got new tiles and, although our temperatures have "only" been around 95 to 100?F during the last few days, you were sweating with every movement of your body because of the almost unbearable humidity (up to 81%). By the way, what's "spam" in this context? > proceeded to cook fried s p a m and egg sandwiches ... Best from Germany, Bernd ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jul 3 17:45:10 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:45:10 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:34:41 -0500, you wrote: >SPAM is a modified meat product containing, >according to the can from my cupboard, ... Also, the use of the term "spam" for unwanted bulk e-mail was taken from a Monty Pyton skit involving the foodish product: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jul 3 16:41:10 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 03 Jul 2009 20:41:10 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting and "Spam" Message-ID: Thanks, folks, for all those details re: spam. Very much appreciated! Bernd P:S.: Do any of our German list members have a German word for that kind of canned food ??? From gmhupe at htn.net Fri Jul 3 17:04:10 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 17:04:10 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting and "Spam" References: Message-ID: <7E523CAB2DBC4BDCBD0E49E2563C3C68@Gregor> "SPAM", translated = "YUCK", "Slimy" and similar to those small "Cocktail Weenies" (similar to pale dog poop units!). Happy Fourth Weekend! Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 4:41 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting and "Spam" > Thanks, folks, for all those details re: spam. Very much appreciated! > > Bernd > > P:S.: Do any of our German list members have a German word for that > kind of canned food ??? > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From minador at yahoo.com Fri Jul 3 17:14:50 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 14:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting Message-ID: <759612.43408.qm@web54407.mail.yahoo.com> --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Erik Fisler wrote: > and slept in an ice cold motel > room till the sun set before grabbing?"breakfast" and > heading back out to Franconia. Did you order any Spam? It's always a good hunting/camping food! ;-) When you have limited free time you have to take advantage of it. Even in the summer days. Great points Adam. You must take the sun seriously! I like the cloths I purchased here: http://www.coolibar.com Of course Erik and his Dad found a great way around that! Thanks for the cool vid... Day or night, one must never go anywhere in the field without plenty of water. Since I got my ruggedized water bladder, I never go anywhere without it: http://www.camelbak.com/en/government-military/hydration-packs.aspx Just be sure to have plenty of extra in case you break down. Good luck and happy hunting! From riffraff at timewarp.de Fri Jul 3 17:19:33 2009 From: riffraff at timewarp.de (Norbert Classen) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 23:19:33 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting and "Spam" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <159689E546334486ABFE9A0D530D2358@lunatic> Hi Bernd, You asked: P:S.: Do any of our German list members have a German word for that kind of canned food ??? "Fr?hst?cksfleisch" or "Dosenfleisch" - YUCK! Actually, "spam" seems to be an abbrevation of "spiced pork and ham"... Hope this helps, Norbert From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Fri Jul 3 19:10:22 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 0:10:22 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090704001022.QH9IM.240662.root@web06-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> The name supposedly came from shortening 'SPiced hAM' ---- Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > Hi Bernd, > > http://www.spam.com/ > > Spam is a canned meat of dubious value - it's one of those foods that > people either love or hate. > > Spam was lampooned by British Comedy troupe Monty Python's Flying Circus - > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_(Monty_Python) > > My dad used to love eating the stuff, but I never developed a taste for it. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > On 03 Jul 2009 20:00:24 UT, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de > wrote: > > Hi MikeG, Adam and List, > > > > Your roofers anecdote "reminds" me of those two Polish roofers on my > > neigbor's > > roof. He got new tiles and, although our temperatures have "only" been > > around 95 > > to 100?F during the last few days, you were sweating with every movement of > > your > > body because of the almost unbearable humidity (up to 81%). By the way, > > what's > > "spam" in this context? > > > >> proceeded to cook fried s p a m and egg sandwiches ... > > > > Best from Germany, > > > > Bernd > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Fri Jul 3 19:10:11 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 0:10:11 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090704001011.EXZ2N.240659.root@web06-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> The name supposedly came fronm shortening 'SPiced hAM' ---- Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > Hi Bernd, > > http://www.spam.com/ > > Spam is a canned meat of dubious value - it's one of those foods that > people either love or hate. > > Spam was lampooned by British Comedy troupe Monty Python's Flying Circus - > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_(Monty_Python) > > My dad used to love eating the stuff, but I never developed a taste for it. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > On 03 Jul 2009 20:00:24 UT, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de > wrote: > > Hi MikeG, Adam and List, > > > > Your roofers anecdote "reminds" me of those two Polish roofers on my > > neigbor's > > roof. He got new tiles and, although our temperatures have "only" been > > around 95 > > to 100?F during the last few days, you were sweating with every movement of > > your > > body because of the almost unbearable humidity (up to 81%). By the way, > > what's > > "spam" in this context? > > > >> proceeded to cook fried s p a m and egg sandwiches ... > > > > Best from Germany, > > > > Bernd > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 3 19:28:04 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 16:28:04 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting and "Spam" Message-ID: I thought the name came from pork shoulder and ham? Carl ensoramanda wrote:>The name supposedly came fronm shortening 'SPiced hAM' _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 From parkforestmet at hotmail.com Fri Jul 3 21:40:21 2009 From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 20:40:21 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ugh. I remember similar products when I was stamping cans as a grocery stock boy. Spork and Speef. Please excuse my offtopicness. http://www.flickr.com/photos/jbcurio/410913153/ > From: cynapse at charter.net > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 16:45:10 -0500 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting > > On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 15:34:41 -0500, you wrote: > >>SPAM is a modified meat product containing, >>according to the can from my cupboard, > > ... > > Also, the use of the term "spam" for unwanted bulk e-mail was taken from a Monty > Pyton skit involving the foodish product: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 3 21:55:54 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 18:55:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinions on an oddball meteorite I cut open Message-ID: <623883.20670.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> As I myself was out hunting meteorites today, I had another thought about your specimen Mike. The nickel content of the free metal might be so high it makes the specimen less attractive to a magnet. Certainly an enigma which is probably going to need lab work to resolve why it is so atypical. Good Luck in finding an answer Elton --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Mr EMan wrote: > From: Mr EMan > Mike, I am coming in to this midstream--but if you can't > see chondrules BUT can see metal flakes AND it is weakly > attracted to a ND magnet, then this is strongly suggesting > this isn't a meteorite.? Some part of the things you've > found don't seem to fit inside the normal wisdom. > > Elton > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jul 3 22:20:44 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 22:20:44 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinions on an oddball meteorite I cut open In-Reply-To: <623883.20670.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <623883.20670.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Elton and List, I fairly certain it is a meteorite, and from the advice I have received, it is probably an LL6 or something thereabouts - low magnetism and a general lack of distinct chondrules - some of those types have a grey matrix and can casually resemble a eucrite. This is what I have been told by some more experienced List members. If it was larger or something possibly more rare, I would consider having it classified. But, given that it's likely an OC and it's very small, I doubt it will ever be classified. It will go back into the oddball box to keep the others company. ;) Unless someone wants to volunteer their skills and microscope to make a better determination on it - in which case I will mail out a slice for a free. Best regards, MikeG On 7/3/09, Mr EMan wrote: > > > As I myself was out hunting meteorites today, I had another thought about > your specimen Mike. The nickel content of the free metal might be so high > it makes the specimen less attractive to a magnet. > > Certainly an enigma which is probably going to need lab work to resolve why > it is so atypical. > > Good Luck in finding an answer > > Elton > --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Mr EMan wrote: > >> From: Mr EMan >> Mike, I am coming in to this midstream--but if you can't >> see chondrules BUT can see metal flakes AND it is weakly >> attracted to a ND magnet, then this is strongly suggesting >> this isn't a meteorite. Some part of the things you've >> found don't seem to fit inside the normal wisdom. >> >> Elton >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From info at meteorites.com.au Sat Jul 4 02:51:31 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 16:51:31 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] ISS volcano pictures - must see! In-Reply-To: <20090703093006.V0CVP.222621.root@web06-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> References: <20090703093006.V0CVP.222621.root@web06-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Message-ID: <283FD2D716C1472CA250FCA660CCB9EE@JeffPC> I noticed the same thing Graham. This is one of the most remarkable series of photographs that I have ever seen taken from space! The QuickTime animation from the NASA Earth Observatory is a must see! http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=38985 Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; "Greg Catterton" Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ISS volcano pictures - must see! > Amazing shots...you can actually see the progress of the debris and > pyroplastic flows travelling down the lower valleys over just a few > seconds in the sequence. > > Graham Ensor > > ---- Greg Catterton wrote: >> >> Totally awesome images from the ISS that captured a volcano erupting in >> one of the Kuril Islands in the Russian Federation. >> >> http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw-200906-English.htm >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Sat Jul 4 05:26:37 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 10:26:37 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] ISS volcano pictures - must see! In-Reply-To: <283FD2D716C1472CA250FCA660CCB9EE@JeffPC> Message-ID: <20090704102637.1JYJ8.243481.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> WOW! Well worth a look. Thanks for that link Jeff Graham ---- Jeff Kuyken wrote: > I noticed the same thing Graham. This is one of the most remarkable series > of photographs that I have ever seen taken from space! The QuickTime > animation from the NASA Earth Observatory is a must see! > > http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=38985 > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; "Greg Catterton" > > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 6:30 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ISS volcano pictures - must see! > > > > Amazing shots...you can actually see the progress of the debris and > > pyroplastic flows travelling down the lower valleys over just a few > > seconds in the sequence. > > > > Graham Ensor > > > > ---- Greg Catterton wrote: > >> > >> Totally awesome images from the ISS that captured a volcano erupting in > >> one of the Kuril Islands in the Russian Federation. > >> > >> http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw-200906-English.htm > >> > >> > >> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > From almitt at kconline.com Sat Jul 4 05:47:28 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 05:47:28 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting In-Reply-To: References: <82806.80596.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Erik and all, Don't the snakes come out at night and warm themselves on the still toasty rocks?? --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erik Fisler" To: "meteorite-list" Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting > > The heat isn't that bad at night. It's only 90 degrees at night with > a warm breeze at franconia. Just strap a maglight to your detector > and grab a head light and 20 AA batteries and your good. > I've found that I find more at night because I wander aimlessly > instead of hitting the spots that look good to everyone else who > walks through the field. We hunted till 9am when it got up to 110 degrees > and then we drove to Needles and slept in an ice cold motel room > till the sun set before grabbing "breakfast" and heading back out to > Franconia. > > Here is a video of a night hunt we did about a year ago. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5gDa6dJ5Ac > > [Erik] From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sat Jul 4 08:01:16 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 08:01:16 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 4, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_4_2009.html __________________________ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323013x1201367230/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) From romanj at sympatico.ca Sat Jul 4 08:36:12 2009 From: romanj at sympatico.ca (Roman Jirasek) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 08:36:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 4, 2009 References: Message-ID: Nice one Jack!! Congratulations! Looks like the next hunt has begun. Cheers, Roman Jirasek ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 8:01 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 4, 2009 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_4_2009.html > > > __________________________ > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323013x1201367230/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JulystepsfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 4 08:41:10 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 05:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] new arizona fall Message-ID: <812128.59896.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Wow this is really exciting! A new arizona fall. Its been 97 years. Way to go jack.It looks like a really fresh fall. I hope the hunters find lots and lots of kilo's of this new fall. And no export papers!!!!!! What a?way to celabrate the 4th of july. ?Steve R. Arnold From schraderj at rocketmail.com Sat Jul 4 08:42:38 2009 From: schraderj at rocketmail.com (Jack Schrader) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 05:42:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall Message-ID: <711539.97824.qm@web111002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, I have a very important announcement to make and one I am sure everyone will be very excited about.? Most of you have already heard the news about the fireball which was sighted over Southern Arizona at 9:22 pm on the evening of Tuesday June 23.?? I would like to announce that I have recovered material from this fall.?? I recovered a 155.6 gram stone at 6:20 pm on Thursday, June 25, which is 44 hours and 58 minutes after the fireball was sighted.?? Fortunately the material recovered was recovered in an absolutely pristine state as the area had no monsoon season rainfall previous to my discovery.?? I was able to very quickly zero in on the area with the help of numerous phone calls and eyewitness reports which were all thoroughly investigated with follow up visits.? With GPS, compass and notepad in hand, I put well over 300 miles on my vehicle in less than two days.? The area people were extremely excited about this event and more than willing to offer whatever information they had about the sighting.?? I was born and raised in this part of Arizona and my intimate knowledge of the country, the terrain, the trails and back roads has proved invaluable in my search.?? I have sent a photo to Michael Johnson and requested he post it on?Rocks from Space Picture of the Day?for July 4. I would like to also take this opportunity to extend my very best wishes to each and every one of you for a very pleasant holiday.? Happy 4th of July!? Jack Schrader From info at tektiteinc.com Sat Jul 4 09:26:18 2009 From: info at tektiteinc.com (info at tektiteinc.com) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 09:26:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - TektiteInc.com Sale - 60% Off - 70% Off... Message-ID: <47103.127.0.0.1.1246713978.squirrel@syd-srv07.ezyreg.com> Hello all, Not many Rizalites are left on my site and I really want to sell all the specimens. However, the site will still be maintained for reference purposes. Make me an offer, 60% Off, even 70% Off! All serious offers Off List please. Please also have a look at the quality specimens from my ebay Store which are now at 50% Off. Shipping Info: Under 150grams $8 Over 150grams $12 Over 400grams and under 1Kilo $33 via FedEx to the US only. European customers please email for FedEx costs. Cheers, Desmond Leong IMCA #2254 http://www.TektiteInc.com http://stores.ebay.com/Tektite-Inc http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtektiteinc-dot-com From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Sat Jul 4 09:47:58 2009 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 06:47:58 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall In-Reply-To: <711539.97824.qm@web111002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <711539.97824.qm@web111002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <60FB274A09B24866AE3BDA42645083C5@Bandli1> >>44 hours and 58 minutes after the fireball Exciting and impressive! Good to see a local native find a meteorite in his own backyard. That's the stuff we all dream of. I can't imagine the emotions that ran through you when you first set eyes on her. Happy 4th! Mike Bandli -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jack Schrader Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 5:43 AM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall Dear List Members, I have a very important announcement to make and one I am sure everyone will be very excited about.? Most of you have already heard the news about the fireball which was sighted over Southern Arizona at 9:22 pm on the evening of Tuesday June 23.?? I would like to announce that I have recovered material from this fall.?? I recovered a 155.6 gram stone at 6:20 pm on Thursday, June 25, which is 44 hours and 58 minutes after the fireball was sighted.?? Fortunately the material recovered was recovered in an absolutely pristine state as the area had no monsoon season rainfall previous to my discovery.?? I was able to very quickly zero in on the area with the help of numerous phone calls and eyewitness reports which were all thoroughly investigated with follow up visits.? With GPS, compass and notepad in hand, I put well over 300 miles on my vehicle in less than two days.? The area people were extremely excited about this event and more than willing to offer whatever information they had about the sighting.?? I was born and raised in this part of Arizona and my intimate knowledge of the country, the terrain, the trails and back roads has proved invaluable in my search.?? I have sent a photo to Michael Johnson and requested he post it on?Rocks from Space Picture of the Day?for July 4. I would like to also take this opportunity to extend my very best wishes to each and every one of you for a very pleasant holiday.? Happy 4th of July!? Jack Schrader ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com Sat Jul 4 09:51:34 2009 From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 06:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall Message-ID: <102756.2353.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A very big CONGRATS on your recovery, Jack! Nicely, and very quickly done. Beautiful looking stone. Best wishes, Robert Woolard p.s. Oh yeah. Now WHAT were those GPS coordinates again??? ;-) Good luck in further recoveries! From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sat Jul 4 10:15:02 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 07:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall Message-ID: <212341.90904.qm@web110608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> My warmest Congratulations Jack, way to go! The weather here in Arizona is not exactly the best for meteorite hunting, as I was out there merely 12 hours after my return from Europe on Tuesday. My neck now has blisters to prove it. 103 degrees, rattlesnakes (one of our female friends nearly stepped on one). I am sure she prefers the cow dung from West:) Jack Schrader is a great meteorite hunter, has hundreds of meteorite pieces under his belt, and I am proud that a fellow meteorite hunter has found the first stones. To my knowledge, he and Thomas Grau are the only meteorite hunters to make the initial finds, not landowners. It proves that a lot of work and beating the bushes pays off for those who try. I am so happy that Arizona has it's first recovered fall in 97 years, and it is close to my house! I know where my 4th will be spent, and the 5th and 6th ..................................... See you out there in a couple of hours Jack. Michael Farmer From epgrondine at yahoo.com Sat Jul 4 11:18:02 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 08:18:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting television series? Message-ID: <700043.21350.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello everyone - It seems to me that there might be a demand for a meteorite hunting television series from one of the satellite channels. With the improvements in bollide reporting via the net, these hunts are getting regular now. With desk top video now a reality the possibility looms. I don't know about existing footage from recent hunts, but perhaps you could fill in the unrecorded parts with "re-enactments". Of course, such projects would require co-operation between you and your competitors, but then all of you would stand to gain from the end product. On an unrelated note, given Firestone, Kenneth, and Tankersley's finds, would any of you like to reconsider your remarks on Hibben's observations at Fairbanks? E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sat Jul 4 11:14:16 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 04 Jul 2009 15:14:16 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 4, 2009 Message-ID: Wow! Congratulations, Jack! As the stone was already recovered "shortly" after the fireball was sighted, the short-lived radionuclides should yield important information on that one! Cheers and a Happy Fourth of July to the American list members! Bernd From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jul 4 12:47:15 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:47:15 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall In-Reply-To: <212341.90904.qm@web110608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <212341.90904.qm@web110608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Jul 2009 07:15:02 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Jack Schrader is a great meteorite hunter, >has hundreds of meteorite pieces under his belt No, he is just happy to see you. >I am so happy that Arizona has it's first recovered fall in 97 years, and it is close to my house! I know where my 4th will be spent, and the 5th and 6th ..................................... > Maybe this search will be less of a circus with no media coverage (yet). From gmhupe at htn.net Sat Jul 4 11:54:37 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 11:54:37 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall References: <711539.97824.qm@web111002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Excellent job, Jack! Congratulations and Happy Fourth!! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Schrader" To: Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 8:42 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall Dear List Members, I have a very important announcement to make and one I am sure everyone will be very excited about. Most of you have already heard the news about the fireball which was sighted over Southern Arizona at 9:22 pm on the evening of Tuesday June 23. I would like to announce that I have recovered material from this fall. I recovered a 155.6 gram stone at 6:20 pm on Thursday, June 25, which is 44 hours and 58 minutes after the fireball was sighted. Fortunately the material recovered was recovered in an absolutely pristine state as the area had no monsoon season rainfall previous to my discovery. I was able to very quickly zero in on the area with the help of numerous phone calls and eyewitness reports which were all thoroughly investigated with follow up visits. With GPS, compass and notepad in hand, I put well over 300 miles on my vehicle in less than two days. The area people were extremely excited about this event and more than willing to offer whatever information they had about the sighting. I was born and raised in this part of Arizona and my intimate knowledge of the country, the terrain, the trails and back roads has proved invaluable in my search. I have sent a photo to Michael Johnson and requested he post it on Rocks from Space Picture of the Day for July 4. I would like to also take this opportunity to extend my very best wishes to each and every one of you for a very pleasant holiday. Happy 4th of July! Jack Schrader ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat Jul 4 12:18:04 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 12:18:04 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall In-Reply-To: <711539.97824.qm@web111002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <711539.97824.qm@web111002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Jack, Congratulations on beating the bloodhounds to the find! :) This is a great way to celebrate the fourth! No export permits - in your face Canada! ;) LOL Are you mapping out the strewnfield and looking for other fragments? Best regards, MikeG On 7/4/09, Jack Schrader wrote: > > Dear List Members, > I have a very important announcement to make and one I am sure everyone will > be very excited about. Most of you have already heard the news about the > fireball which was sighted over Southern Arizona at 9:22 pm on the evening > of Tuesday June 23. I would like to announce that I have recovered > material from this fall. I recovered a 155.6 gram stone at 6:20 pm on > Thursday, June 25, which is 44 hours and 58 minutes after the fireball was > sighted. Fortunately the material recovered was recovered in an absolutely > pristine state as the area had no monsoon season rainfall previous to my > discovery. I was able to very quickly zero in on the area with the help of > numerous phone calls and eyewitness reports which were all thoroughly > investigated with follow up visits. With GPS, compass and notepad in hand, > I put well over 300 miles on my vehicle in less than two days. The area > people were extremely excited about this event and more than willing > to offer whatever information they had about the sighting. I was born and > raised in this part of Arizona and my intimate knowledge of the country, the > terrain, the trails and back roads has proved invaluable in my search. > > I have sent a photo to Michael Johnson and requested he post it on Rocks > from Space Picture of the Day for July 4. > > I would like to also take this opportunity to extend my very best wishes to > each and every one of you for a very pleasant holiday. Happy 4th of July! > > Jack Schrader > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From minador at yahoo.com Sat Jul 4 12:22:43 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 09:22:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall Message-ID: <302054.46160.qm@web54408.mail.yahoo.com> --- On Sat, 7/4/09, Darren Garrison wrote: > > > Maybe this search will be less of a circus with no media > coverage (yet). Yeah, it's probably pretty islolated. This is exciting!! Congratulations to Jack! Good luck finding more! From cdtucson at cox.net Sat Jul 4 12:26:21 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 9:26:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090704122621.WTE3P.176873.imail@fed1rmwml42> Darren, That was Too funny. LOL. Thanks for that and congrats to jack. I will see you out there. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Darren Garrison wrote: > On Sat, 4 Jul 2009 07:15:02 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > > >Jack Schrader is a great meteorite hunter, > >has hundreds of meteorite pieces under his belt > > No, he is just happy to see you. > > >I am so happy that Arizona has it's first recovered fall in 97 years, and it is close to my house! I know where my 4th will be spent, and the 5th and 6th ..................................... > > > > Maybe this search will be less of a circus with no media coverage (yet). > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From geoking at notkin.net Sat Jul 4 13:04:21 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 10:04:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall In-Reply-To: <711539.97824.qm@web111002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <711539.97824.qm@web111002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Jack: Hearty congratulations on your find! We also put in hundreds of miles, interviewed many eyewitnesses and did a number of local news TV spots in the hope that more people who saw the fireball would come forward. But no finds for us. There is some hard country out there and -- as you well know -- it's been hot and muggy down here in the Sonoran Desert. You're the Arizona champ, job well done. Cheers and good hunting (and watch out for those rattlesnakes), Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com www.meteoriteblog.org From majbaermann at web.de Sat Jul 4 14:13:34 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 20:13:34 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall References: <711539.97824.qm@web111002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4CC8FBE1486F45629FCF33D5A093E2C4@thinkcentre> Well, dear Geoff, why "beware of the rattlesnakes"? Don't we already have a meteorite hunting dog? So, why the hell not meteorite hunting rattlesnakes? No one knows better desert hunting conditions. No expensive dog's food - one of the hunters from time to time would do. And, not to forget: what a wonderful precision! Soft rattle: small meteorite. Strong rattle: big full crusted individual. 2 rattles: oriented individual. rattle chorus: ... ahm ... asteroid. [protected business concept] Matthias B. P.S. Please have all a fine 4th. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Notkin" To: "Jack Schrader" ; "Meteorite List" Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall > Dear Jack: > > Hearty congratulations on your find! > > We also put in hundreds of miles, interviewed many eyewitnesses and did a > number of local news TV spots in the hope that more people who saw the > fireball would come forward. But no finds for us. > > There is some hard country out there and -- as you well know -- it's been > hot and muggy down here in the Sonoran Desert. You're the Arizona champ, > job well done. > > > Cheers and good hunting (and watch out for those rattlesnakes), > > Geoff N. > > www.aerolite.org > www.meteoritemen.com > www.meteoriteblog.org > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sat Jul 4 14:24:00 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 14:24:00 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall Message-ID: Woo Hoo! Way to go Dr. Jack! How cool is that? Congrats and best of luck in finding a lot more of them. 300 miles = 1 meteorite I like that ratio! Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323013x1201367230/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) From daistiho at hotmail.com Sat Jul 4 14:39:11 2009 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 18:39:11 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall In-Reply-To: <711539.97824.qm@web111002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <711539.97824.qm@web111002.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yowza! Congratulations on a successful hunt. Did you find any additional pieces after the first propitious find? Best! Tracy Latimer > Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 05:42:38 -0700 > From: schraderj at rocketmail.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall > > > Dear List Members, > I have a very important announcement to make and one I am sure everyone will be very excited about. Most of you have already heard the news about the fireball which was sighted over Southern Arizona at 9:22 pm on the evening of Tuesday June 23. I would like to announce that I have recovered material from this fall. I recovered a 155.6 gram stone at 6:20 pm on Thursday, June 25, which is 44 hours and 58 minutes after the fireball was sighted. Fortunately the material recovered was recovered in an absolutely pristine state as the area had no monsoon season rainfall previous to my discovery. I was able to very quickly zero in on the area with the help of numerous phone calls and eyewitness reports which were all thoroughly investigated with follow up visits. With GPS, compass and notepad in hand, I put well over 300 miles on my vehicle in less than two days. The area people were extremely excited about this event and more than willing > to offer whatever information they had about the sighting. I was born and raised in this part of Arizona and my intimate knowledge of the country, the terrain, the trails and back roads has proved invaluable in my search. > > I have sent a photo to Michael Johnson and requested he post it on Rocks from Space Picture of the Day for July 4. > > I would like to also take this opportunity to extend my very best wishes to each and every one of you for a very pleasant holiday. Happy 4th of July! > > Jack Schrader > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sat Jul 4 14:43:02 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 11:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall Message-ID: <640321.19194.qm@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 4, 2009, at 11:39 AM, tracy latimer wrote: Yowza! Congratulations on a successful hunt. Did you find any additional pieces after the first propitious find? Best! Tracy Latimer Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 05:42:38 -0700 From: schraderj at rocketmail.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall Dear List Members, I have a very important announcement to make and one I am sure everyone will be very excited about. Most of you have already heard the news about the fireball which was sighted over Southern Arizona at 9:22 pm on the evening of Tuesday June 23. I would like to announce that I have recovered material from this fall. I recovered a 155.6 gram stone at 6:20 pm on Thursday, June 25, which is 44 hours and 58 minutes after the fireball was sighted. Fortunately the material recovered was recovered in an absolutely pristine state as the area had no monsoon season rainfall previous to my discovery. I was able to very quickly zero in on the area with the help of numerous phone calls and eyewitness reports which were all thoroughly investigated with follow up visits. With GPS, compass and notepad in hand, I put well over 300 miles on my vehicle in less than two days. The area people were extremely excited about this event and more than willing to offer whatever information they had about the sighting. I was born and raised in this part of Arizona and my intimate knowledge of the country, the terrain, the trails and back roads has proved invaluable in my search. I have sent a photo to Michael Johnson and requested he post it on Rocks from Space Picture of the Day for July 4. I would like to also take this opportunity to extend my very best wishes to each and every one of you for a very pleasant holiday. Happy 4th of July! Jack Schrader ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Sat Jul 4 14:47:19 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 11:47:19 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall In-Reply-To: <640321.19194.qm@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <640321.19194.qm@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Other pieces have been found. Major hooras due to Shauna and Robert. The team is kicking ass but I have found nothing. Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 4, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: > > > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Jul 4, 2009, at 11:39 AM, tracy latimer > wrote: > > > Yowza! Congratulations on a successful hunt. Did you find any > additional pieces after the first propitious find? > > Best! > Tracy Latimer > > Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 05:42:38 -0700 > From: schraderj at rocketmail.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall > > > Dear List Members, > I have a very important announcement to make and one I am sure > everyone will be very excited about. Most of you have already heard > the news about the fireball which was sighted over Southern Arizona > at 9:22 pm on the evening of Tuesday June 23. I would like to > announce that I have recovered material from this fall. I > recovered a 155.6 gram stone at 6:20 pm on Thursday, June 25, which > is 44 hours and 58 minutes after the fireball was sighted. > Fortunately the material recovered was recovered in an absolutely > pristine state as the area had no monsoon season rainfall previous > to my discovery. I was able to very quickly zero in on the area > with the help of numerous phone calls and eyewitness reports which > were all thoroughly investigated with follow up visits. With GPS, > compass and notepad in hand, I put well over 300 miles on my vehicle > in less than two days. The area people were extremely excited about > this event and more than willing > to offer whatever information they had about the sighting. I was > born and raised in this part of Arizona and my intimate knowledge of > the country, the terrain, the trails and back roads has proved > invaluable in my search. > > I have sent a photo to Michael Johnson and requested he post it on > Rocks from Space Picture of the Day for July 4. > > I would like to also take this opportunity to extend my very best > wishes to each and every one of you for a very pleasant holiday. > Happy 4th of July! > > Jack Schrader > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat Jul 4 17:52:25 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:52:25 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: July 4th Meteorite Sale - 24 Hours Only Message-ID: <4A4FCF19.7030108@meteoritesusa.com> Dear Customers, Happy 4th of July Weekend!!! In the patriotic spirit of America and today's special meaning, what better time than to offer all my customers, and all you new customers who are about to purchase, the ability to save some money in these hard economic times. That's why over the last few days I've gone through all of my 120+ auctions and store listings and dropped the Buy-It-Now prices by as much as 50% to 70% on select items, prices are marked. Also, every meteorite on this sale comes with free shipping inside the USA. In addition to the previously mentioned price drop, you can take another 10% Off your whole order if you order within the next 24 hours. (NOTE: This excludes items that are already "marked" 10% off. On these items, the Special Bulk Pricing applies) Auctions & Store Items: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/freel3orn Special Bulk Pricing: All Orders above ----------------------- $250 = Additional 5% Off $500 = Additional 8% Off $750 = Additional 10% Off $1000+ = Additional 12% Off ----------------------- So if your order is $250 you will receive a total discount of 15% off the marked price. (i.e 10% Off plus Bulk discount of 5% equals 15% total discount) You get free shipping to, so you save an additional $5 to $15 depending on how much you order! $500 orders get 18% off, and so forth... Hope this helps you guys out a bit and I hope I don't lose too much money on this deal. Oh yeah one more thing... Dealers who haven't signed up on my wholesale list yet, I encourage you to do so. You'll be entitled to wholesale pricing and receive my wholesale pricelist which includes a three tiered pricing structure. Minimums apply, and you must be a registered business or sole proprietorship and supply your Tax ID Certificate or business license. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/wholesale-list/ Happy Independence Day All! Enjoy... -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From mlblood at cox.net Sat Jul 4 19:14:43 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 16:14:43 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay pain in the $%$$ In-Reply-To: <558669.2656.qm@web110608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Mike, I could not find anywhere to block someone from bidding - checked "my eBay" etc. Can you tell us less informed people how to block someone from Bidding on your items? I am sure others on the list are interested as well. Thanks, Michael On 6/28/09 9:56 AM, "Michael Farmer" wrote: > > Does anyone know this person? > Ebay name: > > graftonwisconsin > > Beware, a total waste of time. He won a whopping $1.50 item from me, it was > shipped two weeks ago, apparently he emailed me an ebay question, waited one > day and started filing complaints and pay-pal charge-backs, now a negative > feedback. All this because I am traveling and could not answer his question in > a matter of hours. I have hundreds of Brenham crystals, and would gladly send > replacement if given more than an hour or two to respond! > I would recommend blocking him unless you want the same headaches for this > kind of chump-change buyer. > Michael Farmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From jnbran at verizon.net Sat Jul 4 19:21:58 2009 From: jnbran at verizon.net (JASON PHILLIPS) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 18:21:58 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 100 kg Brenham Pallasite on eBay In-Reply-To: <4A4FCF19.7030108@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A4FCF19.7030108@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <0F461F22BF224538A6D55FDF51CB2F61@AcerPC> Hello List, I have placed my 100 kg (220 pound) Brenham pallasite on eBay again this time with the best offer option. It comes with a letter of authenticity from Steve Arnold, in situ pictures of finder Dr. Ebel (American Museum of Natural History) and Steve retrieving it, and a dark cherry wooden stand. If you are interested in discussing this specimen please contact me. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260441133712&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3ALCA%3AUS%3A1123&salenotsupported Take Care, Jason Phillips Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com From nuuska at dlc.fi Sat Jul 4 19:25:25 2009 From: nuuska at dlc.fi (Pekka Savolainen) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 02:25:25 +0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay pain in the $%$$ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A4FE4E5.7090508@dlc.fi> well, I?m not Mike, but anyway; http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/manage_bidders_ov.html#block best, pekka s Michael Blood kirjoitti: > Hi Mike, > I could not find anywhere to block someone from bidding - checked > "my eBay" etc. > Can you tell us less informed people how to block someone from > Bidding on your items? I am sure others on the list are interested as well. > Thanks, Michael > > > On 6/28/09 9:56 AM, "Michael Farmer" wrote: > > >> Does anyone know this person? >> Ebay name: >> >> graftonwisconsin >> >> Beware, a total waste of time. He won a whopping $1.50 item from me, it was >> shipped two weeks ago, apparently he emailed me an ebay question, waited one >> day and started filing complaints and pay-pal charge-backs, now a negative >> feedback. All this because I am traveling and could not answer his question in >> a matter of hours. I have hundreds of Brenham crystals, and would gladly send >> replacement if given more than an hour or two to respond! >> I would recommend blocking him unless you want the same headaches for this >> kind of chump-change buyer. >> Michael Farmer >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.386 / Virus Database: 270.13.3/2217 - Release Date: 07/03/09 18:11:00 > > -- Pekka Savolainen Solar Gems Jokiharjuntie 4 FI-71330 Rasala FINLAND member of IMCA #5776 www.imca.cc From mlblood at cox.net Sat Jul 4 19:33:44 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 16:33:44 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for validation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all, Several days ago someone posted me asking if I had done business with a specific person over seas. Unfortunately I have lost his post - I have spent Over an hr looking for it without success. So, if this Dealer is reading the list please post me again and I Will send you the info. Thanks, Michael From mlblood at cox.net Sat Jul 4 20:10:57 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:10:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mexico Doug In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mexico Doug, Please contact me. Sorry, all others.... Michael From beardownbob at gmail.com Sat Jul 4 20:14:28 2009 From: beardownbob at gmail.com (Bob Holmes) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 17:14:28 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Richard Norton memorial Message-ID: <2bc48ad00907041714q2d213866tcf7e352665d34135@mail.gmail.com> I'm posting this on behalf of Dave Mouat. Dear Listees Last Sunday, I had the honor to pay tribute to a man I have known for more than a third of a century (that's right: over 33 years, I was a young Prof at the U of AZ and he was a young but slightly older person who was talking about the desirability of a planetarium at the UofA). I later found out that he was also a faculty (earlier) at the place I now work: the Desert Research Institute of the Nevada System of Higher Education. Quite a coincidence. The Memorial for Richard took place at the home of Dorothy Norton in Bend, Oregon, where they had lived for over 20 years (and a beautiful home it is). Dorothy had asked me to say something about Richard, the scientist and meteoriticist. I borrowed a couple of pieces from his collection and augmented them with some of my own. I added anecdotes about Richard's passion and dedication as a scientist (somewhat of a rarity as a lot of us plod through our work rather than tackle it with the fervor and enthusiasm of a post doc). I also mentioned how Richard had argued with the serious research community involved with meteorites that the hobby had added material for researchers not taken it away from them (of course, this is still a bit controversial). I mentioned the articles and explanations that Richard patiently gave us. There were no people at the Memorial who knew him as a scientist save for a neurologist, they were mostly music lovers, a side of Richard that most of the meteorite community was not aware, and the gathering was astounded to hear how we (and you) regarded him. I think the one thing that was so special was a book of contributions of special memories from you Listees that someone decided to print out on heavy paper as a lasting testiment for Dorothy to treasure and cherish. Even the gathering there was moved by the words that many of you wrote. I am honored and proud to be among you. In fond memory of Richard Dave From minador at yahoo.com Sat Jul 4 21:20:32 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 18:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting Message-ID: <701463.30733.qm@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> Yeah, rattlers come out, and sometimes they don't rattle until you step on them... But it beats the heat. ;-) Be sure to wear boots & have fun! --- On Sat, 7/4/09, al mitt wrote: > From: al mitt > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting > To: "Erik Fisler" , "meteorite-list" > Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 2:47 AM > Hi Erik and all, > > Don't the snakes come out at night and warm themselves on > the still toasty > rocks?? > > --AL Mitterling > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Erik Fisler" > To: "meteorite-list" > Sent: Friday, July 03, 2009 4:17 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting > > > > > > The heat isn't that bad at night. It's only 90 degrees > at night with > > a warm breeze at franconia.? Just strap a > maglight to your detector > > and grab a head light and 20 AA batteries and your > good. > > I've found that I find more at night because I wander > aimlessly > > instead of hitting the spots that look good to > everyone else who > > walks through the field.? We hunted till 9am when > it got up to 110 degrees > > and then we drove to Needles and slept in an ice cold > motel room > > till the sun set before grabbing? "breakfast" and > heading back out to > > Franconia. > > > > Here is a video of a night hunt we did about a year > ago. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5gDa6dJ5Ac > > > > [Erik] > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sat Jul 4 21:29:39 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 18:29:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: June 29 - July 3, 2009 Message-ID: <200907050129.n651Tdd1009655@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES June 29 - July 3, 2009 o Lycus Sulci (Released 29 June 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090629a o Lipik Channels (Released 30 June 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090630a o Polar Dune (Released 01 July 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090701a o Dunes (Released 02 July 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090702a o Dust Devil Tracks (Released 03 July 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090703a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Sat Jul 4 21:34:39 2009 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 20:34:39 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] test Message-ID: <290de768b1cd409f8954dd484f001647@ucv1.vhostdns.com> Test #3 From meteorites at online.nl Sat Jul 4 21:54:48 2009 From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 03:54:48 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] 2 super oriented Tazas (NWA 859) Message-ID: <9018227AF7F44364BE3D43FC606C680B@laptop> Dear listoids, Sorry for a double "once a week ad" but this you just have to see. http://cgi.ebay.com/NWA-859-TAZA-131-grams-Oriented-meteorite_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem27a9df1adeQQitemZ170353695454QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f0QQsalenotsupportedAnd here:http://cgi.ebay.com/Super-Oriented-Taza-NWA-859-Meteorite_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem27a9df2dbaQQitemZ170353700282QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f0QQsalenotsupportedEmail for further questions,Have fun looking.Greetings,JanHolland.IMCA 9833 From meteorites at online.nl Sat Jul 4 22:07:22 2009 From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 04:07:22 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Second Taza link..... Message-ID: <1BEA435610DF498EAB021C18342A0506@laptop> Sorry....something went wrong with the second link.... http://cgi.ebay.com/Super-Oriented-Taza-NWA-859-Meteorite_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem27a9df2dbaQQitemZ170353700282QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f0QQsalenotsupported Enjoy, Jan From cdtucson at cox.net Sat Jul 4 22:49:44 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 19:49:44 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090704224944.08G1W.181385.imail@fed1rmwml42> Rob, List, No I have no idea . I read a blog that all everyone said was that they saw it fall from west to east and these reports were from Tubac to Sierra vista. This told me it must be south east of Sierra vista but I drove around all day today and did not see any evidence of material or any hunters so, I have no idea where they are. I wish I did. I am going to ask the list right now if anyone wants to say where they are looking. East of Tumacocori I-19ish??? Thanks Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Rob Wesel wrote: > Hello Carl > > Do you have some idea just where to look? Jack's post did not say where. > > Rob Wesel > www.nakhladogmeteorites.com > www.facebook.com/nakhladog > ------------------ > We are the music makers... > and we are the dreamers of the dreams. > Willy Wonka, 1971 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: ; > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 9:26 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall > > > > Darren, That was Too funny. LOL. Thanks for that and congrats to jack. I > > will see you out there. > > -- > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > Meteoritemax > > > > > > ---- Darren Garrison wrote: > >> On Sat, 4 Jul 2009 07:15:02 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >> > >> >Jack Schrader is a great meteorite hunter, > >> >has hundreds of meteorite pieces under his belt > >> > >> No, he is just happy to see you. > >> > >> >I am so happy that Arizona has it's first recovered fall in 97 years, > >> >and it is close to my house! I know where my 4th will be spent, and the > >> >5th and 6th ..................................... > >> > > >> > >> Maybe this search will be less of a circus with no media coverage (yet). > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From bristolia at yahoo.com Sat Jul 4 22:51:30 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 19:51:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] HOT Meteorite Hunting and "Spam" in Hawaii Message-ID: <143399.71171.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> bernd.pauli wrote ?Thanks, folks, for all those details re: spam. Very much appreciated!? Given the remarks made about SPAM on this list, people here might be interested in knowing that SPAM is regarded as ?soul food? in Hawaii. They even have ?Spam sushi.? Go look at 1. ?Hawaiian soul food? at; http://www.viamagazine.com/top_stories/articles/hawaiian_food05.asp 2. Hawaii Celebrates Waikiki SPAM JAM(R) Festival http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS37502+26-Apr-2009+PRN20090426 3. Hawaii's 2nd Spam Cookbook http://www.besspress.com/productdetails.cfm?PC=170 and 4. Hawaii: The Spam Archipelago http://www.flakmag.com/misc/spam.html Yours, Paul H. From bristolia at yahoo.com Sat Jul 4 22:57:56 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 19:57:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Plagiarism Sleuths and Duplicate Publications Message-ID: <360278.85403.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The below paper in Science, I found interesting. Couzin-Frankel, J., and J. Grom, 2009, . Science. vol. 324, no. 5930, pp. 1004-1007, DOI: 10.1126/science.324_1004 http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/short/324/5930/1004 Some related web pages and publications are: Deja Vu: a Database of Highly Similar and Duplicate Citations http://spore.swmed.edu/dejavu/ Errami, M., H. Garner, N. Rifai, P. M. Bossuyt, and D. E. Bruns, 2008, Identifying Duplicate Publications: Primum non Nocere. Clinical Chemistry. vol. 54, pp. 777-778. http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/extract/54/5/777 Errami , M., J. M. Hicks , W. Fisher, D. Trusty, J. D. Wren, T. C. Long, and H, R. Garner, 2008, D?j? vu?A study of duplicate citations in Medline. Bioinformatics. vol. 24, no. 2, pp. 243-249; doi:10.1093/bioinformatics/btm574 http://bioinformatics.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/24/2/243 Errami, M., and H. Garner, 2008, Commentary, A tale of two citations. Nature. vol. 451, pp. 397-399 doi:10.1038/451397a http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v451/n7177/full/451397a.html eTBLAST http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETBLAST Yours, Paul H. From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Sat Jul 4 23:20:44 2009 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 22:20:44 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Video of New Ash Creek Find Message-ID: <8f7ea30e44ab46e9805dd924beff164a@ucv1.vhostdns.com> I got a call from a West local who found 'dozens' of meteorites. I doubted it and asked for pictures. As expected, all were junk terrestrials...all but one. I then met him, he's an older gentleman and had stories of some of the rocks he found years ago and some he found after the fall. He swears up and down the one meteorite he found was in 1957. But I looked at it, then cut it open. Looks just like a Ash Creek inside and out. So I suspect he got confused as to when he found which stone. Does anyone see anything that makes you think this is not an Ash Creek? 225 grams. Here's the video (make sure you choose "HD" for hi res) of the stone before and after cutting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZbgCSSaAEw Oh, and anyone who wants a slice, let me know. From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Sat Jul 4 23:24:49 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 20:24:49 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall In-Reply-To: <20090704224944.08G1W.181385.imail@fed1rmwml42> References: <20090704224944.08G1W.181385.imail@fed1rmwml42> Message-ID: <5FD40D3B-6C17-4C5E-A74A-FBF8996C3021@comcast.net> Location is not being released yet to prevent free for all like we saw in west. No agriculture to stones are safe. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 4, 2009, at 7:49 PM, wrote: > Rob, List, > No I have no idea . I read a blog that all everyone said was that > they saw it fall from west to east and these reports were from Tubac > to Sierra vista. This told me it must be south east of Sierra vista > but I drove around all day today and did not see any evidence of > material or any hunters so, I have no idea where they are. I wish I > did. I am going to ask the list right now if anyone wants to say > where they are looking. East of Tumacocori I-19ish??? Thanks Carl > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > > > ---- Rob Wesel wrote: >> Hello Carl >> >> Do you have some idea just where to look? Jack's post did not say >> where. >> >> Rob Wesel >> www.nakhladogmeteorites.com >> www.facebook.com/nakhladog >> ------------------ >> We are the music makers... >> and we are the dreamers of the dreams. >> Willy Wonka, 1971 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: ; >> Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 9:26 AM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall >> >> >>> Darren, That was Too funny. LOL. Thanks for that and congrats to >>> jack. I >>> will see you out there. >>> -- >>> Carl or Debbie Esparza >>> IMCA 5829 >>> Meteoritemax >>> >>> >>> ---- Darren Garrison wrote: >>>> On Sat, 4 Jul 2009 07:15:02 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jack Schrader is a great meteorite hunter, >>>>> has hundreds of meteorite pieces under his belt >>>> >>>> No, he is just happy to see you. >>>> >>>>> I am so happy that Arizona has it's first recovered fall in 97 >>>>> years, >>>>> and it is close to my house! I know where my 4th will be spent, >>>>> and the >>>>> 5th and 6th ..................................... >>>>> >>>> >>>> Maybe this search will be less of a circus with no media coverage >>>> (yet). >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sun Jul 5 00:53:05 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 00:53:05 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 5, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_5_2009.html __________________________ **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222887319x1201497660/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) From mlblood at cox.net Sun Jul 5 04:16:59 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 01:16:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] From "Oz Dog" Bob Walker In-Reply-To: <143399.71171.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I seek to sell the main mass of my Scorpion Bight (Western Australia) specimen for $6000 aussie dollars. Due to export restrictions I can only sell to an Australian buyer and can only ship to an Australian address This one is for serious collectors only - it is the last opportunity for a private collector to be able to purchase a Western Australia chondrite main mass due to legislation vesting ownership of finds after a certain date in the Crown I cannot conceive of any other opportunity to purchase a WA main mass and this is also Australia's fiercest meteorite ! Oz Dog Bob Walker From casper at cooloola.net Sun Jul 5 07:54:20 2009 From: casper at cooloola.net (christopher sharp) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 21:54:20 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Solar oxygen isotopes = CAI oxygen isotopes? Message-ID: <000001c9fd67$5508d1f0$ff1a75d0$@net> Found this interesting: http://genesismission.jpl.nasa.gov/gm2/news/features/closer.htm from http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html bit of a paradigm shift if confirmed! Happy Independence Day USA From Metorman46 at aol.com Sun Jul 5 09:31:44 2009 From: Metorman46 at aol.com (Metorman46 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 09:31:44 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 4, 2009 Message-ID: Jack & Michael; JACK. That is an awsome story you posted to the list,classic meteorite investigation and recovery.Thanks for posting. Michael.Thanks to you we,on the list,along with Jack are the first to view this newest discovered visitor to earth.What a sight to behold.Thanks. Thanks to dedicated and devoted meteorite enthusiasts like you ( and many more of course ) who put a lot of hard work into recovery and collecting, this hobby gets more exciting as time goes by. Great find JACK Best Regards;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770. **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222887319x1201497660/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 12:17:26 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 09:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] bleeding "oozing" nwa Message-ID: <851830.2245.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.I hope all are hunters are finding new arizona meteorites.I have a 400 plus gram nwa endcut that is bleeding ooz.It is small and black.It reminds me of the black oil from the x-files.How do I stop the oozing?? ?Steve R. Arnold From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sun Jul 5 12:31:53 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:31:53 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] bleeding "oozing" nwa In-Reply-To: <851830.2245.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <851830.2245.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003e01c9fd8e$1bb8f7a0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> >How do I stop the oozing?? In giving it away as freebie. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von steve arnold Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. Juli 2009 18:17 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] bleeding "oozing" nwa Hi list.I hope all are hunters are finding new arizona meteorites.I have a 400 plus gram nwa endcut that is bleeding ooz.It is small and black.It reminds me of the black oil from the x-files.How do I stop the oozing?? ?Steve R. Arnold ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sun Jul 5 13:51:19 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:51:19 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] New Arizona Meteorite Fall Photos Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/New-Arizona-Meteorite-fall-2009.html __________________________ Michael Johnson http://www.spacerocksinc.com http://www.rocksfromspace.org http://www.sikhote-alin.org **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005) From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 15:41:50 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 12:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall Message-ID: <395798.35891.qm@web110606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jack and Jarrod, it was a blast hunting yesterday, my bones even ache today. Thanks for a great if less than successful day. Robert, congratulations on that amazing stone, I can't think of a better group of people to hunt with, no BS, no acting, just meteorite hunting. Shauna, I bet we can't wait to see your stone. It was really fun seeing my wife out there trying. You guys are just so great to work with. We are working the strewn field slowly, and as a small team we can keep the media circus out of the picture. No need to cause chaos. Michael Farmer of "Inseki Hunter" From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 16:11:33 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? Message-ID: <46018.95475.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I would like to go join the hunt for meteorites at the recent fall, but it seems this is being kept a secret location... Is this to drive the prices up? One would think extra sets of eyes and hands would be great, but in my opinion it seems a select group is the only ones who will be "allowed" hunting the field then they will in turn charge $100 per gram, yet again for something that is worth far less. Not cool at all. I know I will not be buying from any of you hunting ever again who dont want to allow someone to tag along for the first hunt they would do. If this is the way you "big time" hunters want to conduct yourselves, it shows just what your intentions are. Money. Greg C. From p.marmet at sunrise.ch Sun Jul 5 16:25:06 2009 From: p.marmet at sunrise.ch (Peter Marmet) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 22:25:06 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? In-Reply-To: <46018.95475.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <46018.95475.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <871799a20907051325l58dfaeafjb33d1ff6e1a5edfb@mail.gmail.com> Greg, I hope your post is a joke! Cheers, Peter 2009/7/5 Greg Catterton : > > I would like to go join the hunt for meteorites at the recent fall, but it seems this is being kept a secret location... Is this to drive the prices up? > > One would think extra sets of eyes and hands would be great, but in my opinion it seems a select group is the only ones who will be "allowed" hunting the field then they will in turn charge $100 per gram, yet again for something that is worth far less. > > Not cool at all. I know I will not be buying from any of you hunting ever again who dont want to allow someone to tag along for the first hunt they would do. > If this is the way you "big time" hunters want to conduct yourselves, it shows just what your intentions are. Money. > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Sun Jul 5 16:37:22 2009 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:37:22 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? In-Reply-To: <46018.95475.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <46018.95475.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <93AF798A871C47A4B06C745F76284801@Bandli1> Hi Greg, This has nothing to do with price. Jack's team that did a tremendous amount of legwork and labor to recover this fall and it is up to them when/if to reveal any details. As much as I would like to be there, I respect the fact that they earned this fall. I doubt any of this material will be sold anyway. When you work that hard to find something, it just isn't worth selling. Kind regards, Mike Bandli -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Greg Catterton Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 1:12 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? I would like to go join the hunt for meteorites at the recent fall, but it seems this is being kept a secret location... Is this to drive the prices up? One would think extra sets of eyes and hands would be great, but in my opinion it seems a select group is the only ones who will be "allowed" hunting the field then they will in turn charge $100 per gram, yet again for something that is worth far less. Not cool at all. I know I will not be buying from any of you hunting ever again who dont want to allow someone to tag along for the first hunt they would do. If this is the way you "big time" hunters want to conduct yourselves, it shows just what your intentions are. Money. Greg C. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 16:48:06 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? Message-ID: <554412.89549.qm@web46408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> In a week or so, we will see another ordinary chondrite at $100 per gram (or more since this is a secret fall) I dont want to hear about leg work and labor when they turn down help from people who would like to take part in it and learn from them in the field. This would have been my first hunt, and I guess I am just discovering reality when it comes to meteorites. If your not a "big dealer" you get left out. Greg C. --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Mike Bandli wrote: > From: Mike Bandli > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? > To: "'Greg Catterton'" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 4:37 PM > Hi Greg, > > This has nothing to do with price. Jack's team that did a > tremendous amount > of legwork and labor to recover this fall and it is up to > them when/if to > reveal any details. As much as I would like to be there, I > respect the fact > that they earned this fall. I doubt any of this material > will be sold > anyway. When you work that hard to find something, it just > isn't worth > selling. > > Kind regards, > > Mike Bandli > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] > On Behalf Of Greg > Catterton > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 1:12 PM > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? > > > I would like to go join the hunt for meteorites at the > recent fall, but it > seems this is being kept a secret location... Is this to > drive the prices > up? > > One would think extra sets of eyes and hands would be > great, but in my > opinion it seems a select group is the only ones who will > be "allowed" > hunting the field then they will in turn charge $100 per > gram, yet again for > something that is worth far less. > > Not cool at all. I know I will not be buying from any of > you hunting ever > again who dont want to allow someone to tag along for the > first hunt they > would do. > If this is the way you "big time" hunters want to conduct > yourselves, it > shows just what your intentions are. Money. > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From cynapse at charter.net Sun Jul 5 17:33:39 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:33:39 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? In-Reply-To: <46018.95475.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <46018.95475.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:11:33 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >I would like to go join the hunt for meteorites at the recent fall, but it seems this is being kept a secret location... Is this to drive the prices up? > Probably more an attempt to keep it from being the same type of chaotic circus the falls that get press turn out to be-- which always end up with yahoos showing up and making the whole meteorite dealer/collecter community look bad. From cynapse at charter.net Sun Jul 5 18:06:11 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:06:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? In-Reply-To: <554412.89549.qm@web46408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <554412.89549.qm@web46408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:48:06 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >This would have been my first hunt, and I guess I am just discovering reality when it comes to meteorites. If your not a "big dealer" you get left out. You had the option of doing all the footwork and phone work and driving needed to find the meteorite. You still do. Pick up the phone. If one person can do the detective work to narrow down the fall location, so can someone else. Go find it. From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 17:01:40 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 14:01:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? Message-ID: <760573.42360.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Then why not let fellow collectors be included instead of the just big dealers? Is it becouse the collectors are the ones that the dealers will be selling to? The same people that were selling West for $100 per gram are there right now. --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:33 PM > On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:11:33 -0700 > (PDT), you wrote: > > > > >I would like to go join the hunt for meteorites at the > recent fall, but it seems this is being kept a secret > location... Is this to drive the prices up? > > > > Probably more an attempt to keep it from being the same > type of chaotic circus > the falls that get press turn out to be-- which always end > up with yahoos > showing up and making the whole meteorite dealer/collecter > community look bad. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From erikfwebb at msn.com Sun Jul 5 17:14:54 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 14:14:54 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? In-Reply-To: <554412.89549.qm@web46408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <554412.89549.qm@web46408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Greg, I would be glad to take you out to some great desert pavement for a hunt anytime. I can't geruntee that a meteorite has fallen there or that you will find anything.I can geruntee that you will learn ALOT and you don't have to worry about part of one of the many "exclusive" groups in the meteorite community. I had many people go out of their way to teach me what they new about meteorites or give me a boost in anyway they could. Jim Smaller, Bill Southern, Sony Clary, Anne Black, John Wolf, Dima Sadilenko, Twink Monrad, Geoff Notkin,and many others have all contributed something to my alfiction for meteorite in one way or another.I feel that I would have to do the same for anyone who has the same hunger as I havefor this hobby. I don't know where you live but I live in Phoenix. [Erik] -------------------------------- Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:48:06 -0700 > From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? > > > In a week or so, we will see another ordinary chondrite at $100 per gram (or more since this is a secret fall) > > I dont want to hear about leg work and labor when they turn down help from people who would like to take part in it and learn from them in the field. > > This would have been my first hunt, and I guess I am just discovering reality when it comes to meteorites. If your not a "big dealer" you get left out. > > Greg C. > > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Mike Bandli wrote: > >> From: Mike Bandli >> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? >> To: "'Greg Catterton'" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 4:37 PM >> Hi Greg, >> >> This has nothing to do with price. Jack's team that did a >> tremendous amount >> of legwork and labor to recover this fall and it is up to >> them when/if to >> reveal any details. As much as I would like to be there, I >> respect the fact >> that they earned this fall. I doubt any of this material >> will be sold >> anyway. When you work that hard to find something, it just >> isn't worth >> selling. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Mike Bandli >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] >> On Behalf Of Greg >> Catterton >> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 1:12 PM >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? >> >> >> I would like to go join the hunt for meteorites at the >> recent fall, but it >> seems this is being kept a secret location... Is this to >> drive the prices >> up? >> >> One would think extra sets of eyes and hands would be >> great, but in my >> opinion it seems a select group is the only ones who will >> be "allowed" >> hunting the field then they will in turn charge $100 per >> gram, yet again for >> something that is worth far less. >> >> Not cool at all. I know I will not be buying from any of >> you hunting ever >> again who dont want to allow someone to tag along for the >> first hunt they >> would do. >> If this is the way you "big time" hunters want to conduct >> yourselves, it >> shows just what your intentions are. Money. >> >> Greg C. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sun Jul 5 17:20:34 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 23:20:34 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? In-Reply-To: <554412.89549.qm@web46408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <554412.89549.qm@web46408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003001c9fdb6$70327540$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Greg, sometimes it's hard to understand, why you're collecting meteorites at all? Arizona is THE meteorite state, ASU, Flagstaff, Nininger, Barringer Crater, Holbrook, Tucson Show, and so many meteorite people living there. So it was highest time, that there after almost 100 years a new observed fall was recovered. It is a happy event! And really all on the list are happy that such a decent man like Jack Schrader had recovered the fall. Now we hear that experienced hunter are at work and they won't stay alone, cause the meteorite felt in the backyard of quite a bunch of prominent meteorite people, therefore we can all be calm, that the maximum of that fall will be recovered. So where is your problem? You want to hunt? Jump in the car and try your luck! Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Catterton Gesendet: Sonntag, 5. Juli 2009 22:48 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? In a week or so, we will see another ordinary chondrite at $100 per gram (or more since this is a secret fall) I dont want to hear about leg work and labor when they turn down help from people who would like to take part in it and learn from them in the field. This would have been my first hunt, and I guess I am just discovering reality when it comes to meteorites. If your not a "big dealer" you get left out. Greg C. --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Mike Bandli wrote: > From: Mike Bandli > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? > To: "'Greg Catterton'" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 4:37 PM > Hi Greg, > > This has nothing to do with price. Jack's team that did a > tremendous amount > of legwork and labor to recover this fall and it is up to > them when/if to > reveal any details. As much as I would like to be there, I > respect the fact > that they earned this fall. I doubt any of this material > will be sold > anyway. When you work that hard to find something, it just > isn't worth > selling. > > Kind regards, > > Mike Bandli > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] > On Behalf Of Greg > Catterton > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 1:12 PM > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? > > > I would like to go join the hunt for meteorites at the > recent fall, but it > seems this is being kept a secret location... Is this to > drive the prices > up? > > One would think extra sets of eyes and hands would be > great, but in my > opinion it seems a select group is the only ones who will > be "allowed" > hunting the field then they will in turn charge $100 per > gram, yet again for > something that is worth far less. > > Not cool at all. I know I will not be buying from any of > you hunting ever > again who dont want to allow someone to tag along for the > first hunt they > would do. > If this is the way you "big time" hunters want to conduct > yourselves, it > shows just what your intentions are. Money. > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritewoman at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 17:23:24 2009 From: meteoritewoman at yahoo.com (Shauna Russell) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 14:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Arizona Fall "a secret" Message-ID: <477943.77866.qm@web43504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Shauna Russell To: meteoritelist at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 2:15:05 PM Subject: Arizona Fall "a secret" This is in regards to "A secret" This new fall in Arizona is not being kept secret because of money.? Why can't a group of friends who enjoy meteorite hunting and find a strewn field?keep it within themselves?!? Lets take a look back at West, Texas.? Within a day of finding? material, there were so many people tromping through peoples yards it was insane!? (Soon we were getting kicked off of property that we had full permission to hunt on until it became flooded with treasure hunters and meteorite enthusiasts from all over)? Having said that, we don't want a repeat? of West right here in our own backyard.? The material will be recovered, the data in regards to the strewn field will be preserved, unlike the usual chaos that ensues at a new fall.? There are a number of places that people hunt at that are not open for everyone and their brother to jump into.? It's sad that some people have to try to make an issue out of something wonderful.? Like trying to make our group look bad because they can't be involved.? Jack found the strewn field, Jack deserves to handle this the way he chooses without being ridiculed.? Anyways, Robert and myself would like to congratulate Jack on this incredible recovery!!!! Sincerely, Shauna Russell www.ironfromthesky.com From schraderj at rocketmail.com Sun Jul 5 17:35:04 2009 From: schraderj at rocketmail.com (Jack Schrader) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 14:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall Message-ID: <669752.17939.qm@web111015.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dear list members. I have today received an email from a person.? He sent the message to the list and not to me personally so you already know who this person is.? If he had sent the message to me personally, I would have treated it with complete confidentiality.? I feel that it is important to share the information I shared with him with the members of this list.? Most of the people on this list have been involved with the science of meteorites for many years and have already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can only come from years of experience. This list has been very fortunate to have been joined by people who are new to the science and to the wonderful hobby of collecting meteorites.? His email was not sent to be malicious but was sent out of frustration and out of his enthusiastic desire to be able to look for a new meteorite and to actually find one for himself..? These people who hold this intense enthusiasm are the people we need in this science, this hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to venture out, find and be the first one to touch a stone that acually fell to earth from space.? I have copied the information I sent to him below.? I hope others who are experiencing similar feelings of frustration at the present time will benefit from this as well. Hello.? This fall is a very rare, a very important and historic fall for this state and for the University of Arizona in particular as the site is very literally in their own back yard.? It is vitally important that the area be protected for only as long as it takes to properly record and document the fall.? I have seen what happens to an area when?the location?is announced publicly too early.? The area is almost immediately deluged and over run with not only the true professional meteorite hunters who are actually trying to do something good and recover the stones properly with GPS coordinates and photographic evidence of the stones in situ but with every treasure seeker and rock hunter and curiosity seeker who could care less about the science but more about simply having something cool to show off to their friends.? This is okay too and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this but right now is not the time for this.? This area is presently pristine and kin to a very delicate archaeological site.? The archaeologists need to do the proper work in the area before the "pot hunters" find it and destroy any information that could otherwise be learned from the site.? My intention is certainly not simply just for the money or the stones that can be recovered.? When you really give this some thought, you will realize that I did not have to tell a single soul about this.? I discovered this remote area entirely on my own using the knowledge that I have gained over many years of hunting meteorites. I could have very easily kept this site to myself and hunted it for months and months.? But the path I chose was simply to do the right thing.? I made a proper announcement and I have begun preparations for conducting a proper search and recording of the fall site.? Please do not worry.? You will get your opportunity to hunt the area.? There will be stones in this area to be recovered for years to come and you will find yours.? And they will be free, you will not have to buy anything.? The area as any area where meteorite have fallen either in recent or in ancient times is impossible to hunt out completely.? I am just simply asking for a little time that it takes to be able to properly record this fall site so the information may be available to the University of Arizona and to any other institutions and meteoriticists in the world who may have an interest in the work that we will be doing.? It is too important to risk destroying the information at this point not only for the science that can be gained from the area but for the generations to come who may have an interest in learning more about the dynamics of meteors and the variety of strewn field types that they create.? I do appreciate your understanding.? My very best wishes, Dr. Jack Schrader From gmhupe at htn.net Sun Jul 5 17:40:11 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:40:11 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Arizona Fall "a secret" References: <477943.77866.qm@web43504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Shauna, and the 'Team', Congratulations to all of you! Agreeing with what you said, you all are 'finding it', 'mapping it', 'donating pristine samples to science', what is the complaint from some side-liners?! I say that anyone who has a complaint should to take notes and be prepared next time, learn from the best! Keep up the outstanding work, "Team Jack"!!! Best regards, Greg Hupe ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shauna Russell" To: Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 5:23 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Arizona Fall "a secret" ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Shauna Russell To: meteoritelist at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 2:15:05 PM Subject: Arizona Fall "a secret" This is in regards to "A secret" This new fall in Arizona is not being kept secret because of money. Why can't a group of friends who enjoy meteorite hunting and find a strewn field keep it within themselves?! Lets take a look back at West, Texas. Within a day of finding material, there were so many people tromping through peoples yards it was insane! (Soon we were getting kicked off of property that we had full permission to hunt on until it became flooded with treasure hunters and meteorite enthusiasts from all over) Having said that, we don't want a repeat of West right here in our own backyard. The material will be recovered, the data in regards to the strewn field will be preserved, unlike the usual chaos that ensues at a new fall. There are a number of places that people hunt at that are not open for everyone and their brother to jump into. It's sad that some people have to try to make an issue out of something wonderful. Like trying to make our group look bad because they can't be involved. Jack found the strewn field, Jack deserves to handle this the way he chooses without being ridiculed. Anyways, Robert and myself would like to congratulate Jack on this incredible recovery!!!! Sincerely, Shauna Russell www.ironfromthesky.com ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gmhupe at htn.net Sun Jul 5 17:30:58 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:30:58 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? References: <46018.95475.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8196FACAEBD545CABDCF08D229223B8E@Gregor> Greg Catterton, I am very surprised to hear such BS come out of your mouth! Jack Schrader is not a dealer, Robert and Shauna are not dealers, they all "hunt" primarily. I am disgusted to read your words saying it is "...the big dealers..." this or that. Like Darren said, "Go out there and do your (own) homework!" I know that Jack and "Team" are doing everything possible to get all of the science collected before it gets screwed up by the everyday Joe-Meteorite Hunter. What kind of accurate science has been done on Franconia, etc. NONE! This is a chance to do it right, and Jack and his team of trusted friends are doing it, nothing to do with self-promotion, News interviews or other distracting crap. Let them do their job and wait for the future announcement(s). In the mean time, give credit where it is due and quit making this seem like some sort of conspiracy. Hard work, great reward = results, both for science and collectors!! By the way, Greg C., have you given Jack the proper respect and congratulations for an amazing story of home work and recovery?!! Best regards, Greg Hupe ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? > On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:11:33 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >> >>I would like to go join the hunt for meteorites at the recent fall, but it >>seems this is being kept a secret location... Is this to drive the prices >>up? >> > > Probably more an attempt to keep it from being the same type of chaotic > circus > the falls that get press turn out to be-- which always end up with yahoos > showing up and making the whole meteorite dealer/collecter community look > bad. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From jgrossman at usgs.gov Sun Jul 5 17:51:58 2009 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:51:58 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall In-Reply-To: <395798.35891.qm@web110606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <395798.35891.qm@web110606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A51207E.2000704@usgs.gov> So who actually owns this meteorite, given that ~75% of southern Arizona is either federal or tribal land and much of the rest belongs to the state? jeff Michael Farmer wrote: > Jack and Jarrod, it was a blast hunting yesterday, my bones even ache today. Thanks for a great if less than successful day. > Robert, congratulations on that amazing stone, I can't think of a better group of people to hunt with, no BS, no acting, just meteorite hunting. > Shauna, I bet we can't wait to see your stone. It was really fun seeing my wife out there trying. You guys are just so great to work with. > > We are working the strewn field slowly, and as a small team we can keep the media circus out of the picture. No need to cause chaos. > > Michael Farmer > of "Inseki Hunter" > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sun Jul 5 18:12:35 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:12:35 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? In-Reply-To: <46018.95475.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <46018.95475.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A512553.3060601@meteoritesusa.com> Greg, I agree with Peter and Mike and Darren and Greg Hupe, and Shauna, and Martin, and of course Jack especially... certainly, and most profoundly hope this is a joke. This has absolutely nothing to do with price and everything to do with hard work. You seem to think that information as valuable as that should be shared ad hoc with every person who asks for it. It's not... And shouldn't be, at least not right away. Preserving the strewnfield and recording all available data is priority. The value to science of this fall is absolutely important. Though I can sympathize with your frustration, you'll understand once you get out in the field that it's not about keeping secrets or withholding information out of spite or some other conspiratorial reason. It's simply about the time it takes to properly recover the specimens and collect data that is then shared with universities and announced publicly. Those hunters and scientists in the field work countless hours pouring over eye witness reports, news articles, making phone calls, investigating, interviewing, analyzing video, maps, trajectories, speed, angles, photos, weather and many other things aspects I can't mention. Not to mention wandering around the Arizona desert in July in 100+ degree heat where the normal person wouldn't go. Get out there! Pound the ground! Do the research. Do your homework. Spend your money. Search and recover. Hunt! Walk around in the Arizona desert for 10 days straight with only a couple finds to your name. Sleep in hotels, and camp out on the ground. Trudge through brush and tall grass, rocks, and uneven terrain. Walk tens of mile a day through rattlesnake and scorpion infested desert for days on end. Then see if you want to release the coordinates to anyone who asks you for them. I guarantee you won't! Someone, anyone must earn the right to the information whether they like it or not... It's about science and work. Get out there and do it. Research, hunt, then recover your own meteorites. I guarantee it will be that much more rewarding if you do. Good luck! Regards, Eric Greg Catterton wrote: > I would like to go join the hunt for meteorites at the recent fall, but it seems this is being kept a secret location... Is this to drive the prices up? > > One would think extra sets of eyes and hands would be great, but in my opinion it seems a select group is the only ones who will be "allowed" hunting the field then they will in turn charge $100 per gram, yet again for something that is worth far less. > > Not cool at all. I know I will not be buying from any of you hunting ever again who dont want to allow someone to tag along for the first hunt they would do. > If this is the way you "big time" hunters want to conduct yourselves, it shows just what your intentions are. Money. > > Greg C. > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 18:14:35 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 15:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New fall politics Message-ID: <82409.65635.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Greg, take a chill pill. I know you are enthusiastic and rearing to go, and I will cut you some slack for saying what you said. It is not right though. We are not keeping this secret to sell for $100 gram, buy the way, not one person who sold West for $100 gram is here. I my have sold one stone near that price, but I gave almost as many as I sold away for free! We are not driven by greed, but a unique opportunity to search happily, slowly, do proper work, and all be friends, not like West where hours after getting permission to hunt we were told another team made a better offer and to pack our bags or thrown off land by gunpoint because so many people showed up. Do you think it would be any different here if we announced today? Tomorrow we would no longer be welcome guests on that land but unwanted pests! We gave the green light to allow the news story in West to break, and less than 12 hours later the flood and nightmare began. There is no rush here, no plows are coming to destroy the strewn field, most is in pristine desert, so any stone on the surface will likely be there 100 years from now. We can hunt in peace without competition, backstabbing, fighting, or negotiating. What problem can you see with this? I know if you are not there it is tough, but see our point of view. This may be a once in a lifetime event for Jack and for those of us fortunate enough to know him well. He bought his first meteorite from me, and has hunted on the other side of the planet with me, so he trusts me enough to invite me along, and I appreciate that very much. The science will be done, no stones will be disappearing into pockets and jumping onto eBay without all data being recorded, at least until the followers come. Relax, Dr Schrader himself just told the list that when he is ready, the location will be made public and all will get a chance. Trust me, this is a large area and very rough and stones will remain to be found for a very long time. Relax, bide your time, that will get you an invite much faster than with a public attack Greg. Michael Farmer From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 18:17:04 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 15:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall Message-ID: <384718.65891.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Jeff, that is a good question, it is being worked out as there is an assortment of land, both public and private. We are doing it properly. Michael Farmer --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Jeff Grossman wrote: > From: Jeff Grossman > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall > To: "Meteorite-list" > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 3:51 PM > So who actually owns this meteorite, > given that ~75% of southern Arizona is either federal or > tribal land and much of the rest belongs to the state? > > jeff > > Michael Farmer wrote: > > Jack and Jarrod, it was a blast hunting yesterday, my > bones even ache today. Thanks for a great if less than > successful day. > > Robert, congratulations on that amazing stone, I can't > think of a better group of people to hunt with, no BS, no > acting, just meteorite hunting. Shauna, I bet we can't wait > to see your stone. It was really fun seeing my wife out > there trying. You guys are just so great to work with. > > > >? We are working the strewn field slowly, and as a > small team we can keep the media circus out of the picture. > No need to cause chaos. > > Michael Farmer > > of "Inseki Hunter" > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > >??? > > > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman? ? > ???phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey? ? ? ? ? > fax:???(703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 18:17:31 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 15:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? Message-ID: <784758.5471.qm@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> Greg, There's nothing wrong with protecting the areas you work hard to find. I would do exactly the same as them; in fact I have lots of prospecting locations I keep quiet. I will admit that it would be very hard for me to make the public announcement that Jack gave. Since it was found so soon after the fall, there must be witnesses who have some important clues. So I imagine the site will eventually be found by others. It's good that these finders are taking the time to collect data. But the first finders don?t always bother to do that. Our community has a bad name in some sectors because there are those who do just as Jack wrote; they pillage the site with no regard to preserving any information which may be useful for scientists. I think it's pretty short sited to pick up any meteorite without collecting basic data, which only requires modestly priced equipment and a few moments of one's time. If you want to go hunting, start asking around. You'll find quite a few folks like Erik who will offer to take you out. Some will just offer you advice as to what tools, locations, etc. But that's still generous of them and you will find that information extremely valuable. There are many well-known locations that still produce meteorites and some hunters will have no problem taking you there because it?s public knowledge. I can relate to your feelings Greg. I would love find one of these babies and I wish I could be included in the initial hunt, but unfortunately there are just too many folks to invite, especially folks they know well and consider great friends. Once lots of folks find out the location, inevitably there will be those who will start running ATVs all over the place and pick stones without helping to map the site. And that also leads to problems with the land owners, who don't want people trashing the place. After PF, West and other well documented falls, this is a rare, excellent opportunity to collect some important information. I don?t doubt that money is a partial motivation, but there?s nothing wrong with that. I?m sure I?d still be interested in meteorites if they weren?t worth a whole lot of money. I was interested in them when I was young and I didn?t know they were worth anything. I invest a lot of time doing things just for the sake of knowledge. But their value is big attraction, and I doubt I?d invest as much of my time if they were worthless. Where are you living? I?d be willing to give you a hand. I?m in the Tucson area. Happy hunting to the finders and good luck to those who are still looking for this one! --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Greg Catterton wrote: > From: Greg Catterton > Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 1:11 PM > > I would like to go join the hunt for meteorites at the > recent fall, but it seems this is being kept a secret > location... Is this to drive the prices up? > > One would think extra sets of eyes and hands would be > great, but in my opinion it seems a select group is the only > ones who will be "allowed" hunting the field then they will > in turn charge $100 per gram, yet again for something that > is worth far less. > > Not cool at all. I know I will not be buying from any of > you hunting ever again who dont want to allow someone to tag > along for the first hunt they would do. > If this is the way you "big time" hunters want to conduct > yourselves, it shows just what your intentions are. Money. > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From fujmon at mac.com Sun Jul 5 18:02:12 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 12:02:12 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall In-Reply-To: <669752.17939.qm@web111015.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <669752.17939.qm@web111015.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Aloha Jack, Thank you for your mana'o (thoughts) on meteorite hunting in general, and the latest AZ fall in particular. Not many falls in Hawaii, so I'll have to live vicariously through your (and other hunting teams') exploits. Congratulations Jack, and best wishes and luck to you, and all other hunters joining you in the strewnfield over the next few weeks. gary On Jul 5, 2009, at 11:35 AM, Jack Schrader wrote: > > Dear list members. > > I have today received an email from a person. He sent the message > to the list and not to me personally so you already know who this > person is. If he had sent the message to me personally, I would > have treated it with complete confidentiality. I feel that it is > important to share the information I shared with him with the > members of this list. Most of the people on this list have been > involved with the science of meteorites for many years and have > already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can only come from > years of experience. This list has been very fortunate to have been > joined by people who are new to the science and to the wonderful > hobby of collecting meteorites. His email was not sent to be > malicious but was sent out of frustration and out of his > enthusiastic desire to be able to look for a new meteorite and to > actually find one for himself.. These people who hold this intense > enthusiasm are the people we need in this science, this > hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to venture out, find and > be the first one to touch a stone that acually fell to earth from > space. I have copied the information I sent to him below. I hope > others who are experiencing similar feelings of frustration at the > present time will benefit from this as well. > > > Hello. This fall is a very rare, a very important and historic fall > for this state and for the University of Arizona in particular as > the site is very literally in their own back yard. It is vitally > important that the area be protected for only as long as it takes to > properly record and document the fall. I have seen what happens to > an area when the location is announced publicly too early. The area > is almost immediately deluged and over run with not only the true > professional meteorite hunters who are actually trying to do > something good and recover the stones properly with GPS coordinates > and photographic evidence of the stones in situ but with every > treasure seeker and rock hunter and curiosity seeker who could care > less about the science but more about simply having something cool > to show off to their friends. This is okay too and there is > absolutely nothing wrong with this but right now is not the time for > this. This area is presently > pristine and kin to a very delicate archaeological site. The > archaeologists need to do the proper work in the area before the "pot > hunters" find it and destroy any information that could otherwise be > learned from the site. My intention is certainly not simply just > for the money or the stones that can be recovered. When you really > give this some thought, you will realize that I did not have to tell > a single soul about this. I discovered this remote area entirely on > my own using the knowledge that I have gained over many years of > hunting meteorites. I could have very easily kept this site to > myself and hunted it for months and months. But the path I chose > was simply to do the right thing. I made a proper announcement and > I have begun preparations for conducting a proper search and > recording of the fall site. Please do not worry. You will get your > opportunity to hunt the area. There will be stones in this area to > be recovered for years to come and you will find yours. And they > will be free, you will not have to buy anything. The area as any > area where meteorite have > fallen either in recent or in ancient times is impossible to > hunt out completely. I am just simply asking for a little time that > it takes to be able to properly record this fall site so the > information may be available to the University of Arizona and to any > other institutions and meteoriticists in the world who may have an > interest in the work that we will be doing. It is too important to > risk destroying the information at this point not only for the > science that can be gained from the area but for the generations to > come who may have an interest in learning more about the dynamics of > meteors and the variety of strewn field types that they create. I > do appreciate your understanding. My very best wishes, Dr. Jack > Schrader > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From waltbranch at bellsouth.net Sun Jul 5 19:04:15 2009 From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:04:15 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall References: <669752.17939.qm@web111015.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <588B4EE773C04C60A06BAEAA5FE44DA6@yourf78bf48ce2> Hi Jack, Cool beans! My sincerest congratulations. Ya'll keep up the great work! -Walter Branch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Schrader" To: Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 5:35 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall Dear list members. I have today received an email from a person. He sent the message to the list and not to me personally so you already know who this person is. If he had sent the message to me personally, I would have treated it with complete confidentiality. I feel that it is important to share the information I shared with him with the members of this list. Most of the people on this list have been involved with the science of meteorites for many years and have already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can only come from years of experience. This list has been very fortunate to have been joined by people who are new to the science and to the wonderful hobby of collecting meteorites. His email was not sent to be malicious but was sent out of frustration and out of his enthusiastic desire to be able to look for a new meteorite and to actually find one for himself.. These people who hold this intense enthusiasm are the people we need in this science, this hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to venture out, find and be the first one to touch a stone that acually fell to earth from space. I have copied the information I sent to him below. I hope others who are experiencing similar feelings of frustration at the present time will benefit from this as well. Hello. This fall is a very rare, a very important and historic fall for this state and for the University of Arizona in particular as the site is very literally in their own back yard. It is vitally important that the area be protected for only as long as it takes to properly record and document the fall. I have seen what happens to an area when the location is announced publicly too early. The area is almost immediately deluged and over run with not only the true professional meteorite hunters who are actually trying to do something good and recover the stones properly with GPS coordinates and photographic evidence of the stones in situ but with every treasure seeker and rock hunter and curiosity seeker who could care less about the science but more about simply having something cool to show off to their friends. This is okay too and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this but right now is not the time for this. This area is presently pristine and kin to a very delicate archaeological site. The archaeologists need to do the proper work in the area before the "pot hunters" find it and destroy any information that could otherwise be learned from the site. My intention is certainly not simply just for the money or the stones that can be recovered. When you really give this some thought, you will realize that I did not have to tell a single soul about this. I discovered this remote area entirely on my own using the knowledge that I have gained over many years of hunting meteorites. I could have very easily kept this site to myself and hunted it for months and months. But the path I chose was simply to do the right thing. I made a proper announcement and I have begun preparations for conducting a proper search and recording of the fall site. Please do not worry. You will get your opportunity to hunt the area. There will be stones in this area to be recovered for years to come and you will find yours. And they will be free, you will not have to buy anything. The area as any area where meteorite have fallen either in recent or in ancient times is impossible to hunt out completely. I am just simply asking for a little time that it takes to be able to properly record this fall site so the information may be available to the University of Arizona and to any other institutions and meteoriticists in the world who may have an interest in the work that we will be doing. It is too important to risk destroying the information at this point not only for the science that can be gained from the area but for the generations to come who may have an interest in learning more about the dynamics of meteors and the variety of strewn field types that they create. I do appreciate your understanding. My very best wishes, Dr. Jack Schrader ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 19:25:22 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 16:25:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall Message-ID: <671939.20870.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List, A question came up about who owns meteorites found on federal land. Below is a link that can be cut and pasted into a browser that discusses removal of minerals from federal land. I was told by a BLM officer that 150 pounds can be removed a year for non-commercial/hobby purposes. The BLM will issue free non-commercial use permits if requested. I found that they will even mail them to you free. If you are caught removing minerals without one, the fines can be as great as $100,000.00 or a year in jail. If a meteorite weighs more than 150 pounds, it will have to be cut in the field and the rest recovered during subsequent years or the Smithsonian may claim it. The BLM can and will come after you if profits from any object including meteorites are taken from the sale of minerals from federal land. I was told that eBay is monitored all of time and notes taken. I made some poor agent spend more than an hour on the phone explaining what is and isn't acceptable to them to avoid future problems. The good news is that you can keep the meteorites! I think Jack,s approach of keeping the press out of this fall is well thought out. The first thing the press will do is mention there is monetary value in meteorites and then "Gold Fever" will set in. I have seen people do strange things and come up with poorly thought out plans when "Gold Fever" takes hold. People with this affliction are usually the ones that relentlessly chase the press instead of looking for meteorites themselves. They will stab fellow hunters in the back and forget all about long-forged friendships. They are best avoided all-together. Here is a link that will explain mineral laws in simple English: http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE_PROTECTION_/non-energy_minerals.Par.48557.File.dat/sand.pdf By the way, Congratulations Jack, excellent job all around! Best Regards, Adam From cdtucson at cox.net Sun Jul 5 19:46:16 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:46:16 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall In-Reply-To: <669752.17939.qm@web111015.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090705194616.EP9TM.188312.imail@fed1rmwml41> Jack, I am a newbie at this list but I have been hunting for many years. I also have had a few successes. Your success here is no small feat. I have just spent the better part of the past two days hunting with the best knowledge I could obtain. I have tried to do exactly as Darren recommends and you have already done. I too am frustrated not by your actions but of the overwhelming size of the area in which to search. The area from I-10 and highway 191 to north of Sierra vista in hundreds of square miles. I found first of all that most of that area is either Posted State land with No trespassing signs without a permit everywhere or area that does not resemble the terrain in your photos. Yes, I want to know your trick? I have put nearly 500 miles on my car and seen nothing but mining slag. I mean more slag than I have ever seen in my life. My other question is ; what does U of A have to do with this? I ask because when I contact them they have zero interest in anything related to meteorites. Period. They simply refer all inquiries to either ASU or UCLA. They don't even have anyone there that wants to look at them. Another question is who is going to study and do the radio nuclides test that Bernd spoke of? because without that you have no idea if this is from the fall we all just read about or another fall from the distant past. another question is what do you mean about the West being done badly. I read the list and was under the impression that West was a textbook example of the right way to do things. Doug sent the first specimen off right away to Rubin and the rest is history. I guess I am saying that many of us including me would be happy to follow your rules and learn from you and be a part if this and now is always better than later especially with the monsoons here. Many of this precious material WILL be lost if not collected quickly. If you live here you must already realize this. So. I ask you to please consider letting more of us in on this with your leadership and rules? Oh and one other very important point. CONGRATS to you. And thank you for your consideration. Carl Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Jack Schrader wrote: > > Dear list members. > > I have today received an email from a person.? He sent the message to the list and not to me personally so you already know who this person is.? If he had sent the message to me personally, I would have treated it with complete confidentiality.? I feel that it is important to share the information I shared with him with the members of this list.? Most of the people on this list have been involved with the science of meteorites for many years and have already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can only come from years of experience. This list has been very fortunate to have been joined by people who are new to the science and to the wonderful hobby of collecting meteorites.? His email was not sent to be malicious but was sent out of frustration and out of his enthusiastic desire to be able to look for a new meteorite and to actually find one for himself..? These people who hold this intense enthusiasm are the people we need in this science, this > hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to venture out, find and be the first one to touch a stone that acually fell to earth from space.? I have copied the information I sent to him below.? I hope others who are experiencing similar feelings of frustration at the present time will benefit from this as well. > > > Hello.? This fall is a very rare, a very important and historic fall for this state and for the University of Arizona in particular as the site is very literally in their own back yard.? It is vitally important that the area be protected for only as long as it takes to properly record and document the fall.? I have seen what happens to an area when?the location?is announced publicly too early.? The area is almost immediately deluged and over run with not only the true professional meteorite hunters who are actually trying to do something good and recover the stones properly with GPS coordinates and photographic evidence of the stones in situ but with every treasure seeker and rock hunter and curiosity seeker who could care less about the science but more about simply having something cool to show off to their friends.? This is okay too and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this but right now is not the time for this.? This area is presently > pristine and kin to a very delicate archaeological site.? The archaeologists need to do the proper work in the area before the "pot > hunters" find it and destroy any information that could otherwise be learned from the site.? My intention is certainly not simply just for the money or the stones that can be recovered.? When you really give this some thought, you will realize that I did not have to tell a single soul about this.? I discovered this remote area entirely on my own using the knowledge that I have gained over many years of hunting meteorites. I could have very easily kept this site to myself and hunted it for months and months.? But the path I chose was simply to do the right thing.? I made a proper announcement and I have begun preparations for conducting a proper search and recording of the fall site.? Please do not worry.? You will get your opportunity to hunt the area.? There will be stones in this area to be recovered for years to come and you will find yours.? And they will be free, you will not have to buy anything.? The area as any area where meteorite have > fallen either in recent or in ancient times is impossible to > hunt out completely.? I am just simply asking for a little time that it takes to be able to properly record this fall site so the information may be available to the University of Arizona and to any other institutions and meteoriticists in the world who may have an interest in the work that we will be doing.? It is too important to risk destroying the information at this point not only for the science that can be gained from the area but for the generations to come who may have an interest in learning more about the dynamics of meteors and the variety of strewn field types that they create.? I do appreciate your understanding.? My very best wishes, Dr. Jack Schrader > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From countdeiro at earthlink.net Sun Jul 5 19:43:56 2009 From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:43:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall Message-ID: <219362.1246837436564.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Dear Dr. Schrader, Thank you for posting such a gracious and honest explanation of the reasoning behind withholding the location of the new fall. I am a "newbie" and I for one needed to understand that "keeping the secret" of a new witnessed fall and strewn field only secondarily has anything to do with "making" money. Our succeses in locating specimens has an enormous impact on the sciences and each new discovery should follow field work protocols. We all will have our opportunities to search this field in the near future. I'm hopping from one foot to the other waiting "my" turn. Congratulations on your enormous success. Count Deiro Las Vegas, Nevada -----Original Message----- >From: Jack Schrader >Sent: Jul 5, 2009 5:35 PM >To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall > > >Dear list members. > >I have today received an email from a person.? He sent the message to the list and not to me personally so you already know who this person is.? If he had sent the message to me personally, I would have treated it with complete confidentiality.? I feel that it is important to share the information I shared with him with the members of this list.? Most of the people on this list have been involved with the science of meteorites for many years and have already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can only come from years of experience. This list has been very fortunate to have been joined by people who are new to the science and to the wonderful hobby of collecting meteorites.? His email was not sent to be malicious but was sent out of frustration and out of his enthusiastic desire to be able to look for a new meteorite and to actually find one for himself..? These people who hold this intense enthusiasm are the people we need in this science, this > hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to venture out, find and be the first one to touch a stone that acually fell to earth from space.? I have copied the information I sent to him below.? I hope others who are experiencing similar feelings of frustration at the present time will benefit from this as well. > > >Hello.? This fall is a very rare, a very important and historic fall for this state and for the University of Arizona in particular as the site is very literally in their own back yard.? It is vitally important that the area be protected for only as long as it takes to properly record and document the fall.? I have seen what happens to an area when?the location?is announced publicly too early.? The area is almost immediately deluged and over run with not only the true professional meteorite hunters who are actually trying to do something good and recover the stones properly with GPS coordinates and photographic evidence of the stones in situ but with every treasure seeker and rock hunter and curiosity seeker who could care less about the science but more about simply having something cool to show off to their friends.? This is okay too and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this but right now is not the time for this.? This area is presently > pristine and kin to a very delicate archaeological site.? The archaeologists need to do the proper work in the area before the "pot >hunters" find it and destroy any information that could otherwise be learned from the site.? My intention is certainly not simply just for the money or the stones that can be recovered.? When you really give this some thought, you will realize that I did not have to tell a single soul about this.? I discovered this remote area entirely on my own using the knowledge that I have gained over many years of hunting meteorites. I could have very easily kept this site to myself and hunted it for months and months.? But the path I chose was simply to do the right thing.? I made a proper announcement and I have begun preparations for conducting a proper search and recording of the fall site.? Please do not worry.? You will get your opportunity to hunt the area.? There will be stones in this area to be recovered for years to come and you will find yours.? And they will be free, you will not have to buy anything.? The area as any area where meteorite have > fallen either in recent or in ancient times is impossible to >hunt out completely.? I am just simply asking for a little time that it takes to be able to properly record this fall site so the information may be available to the University of Arizona and to any other institutions and meteoriticists in the world who may have an interest in the work that we will be doing.? It is too important to risk destroying the information at this point not only for the science that can be gained from the area but for the generations to come who may have an interest in learning more about the dynamics of meteors and the variety of strewn field types that they create.? I do appreciate your understanding.? My very best wishes, Dr. Jack Schrader > > > > > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 20:13:18 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:13:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: Arizona fall Message-ID: <685210.71234.qm@web54402.mail.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Adam Hupe wrote: > Below is a link that can be cut and pasted into a browser > that discusses removal of minerals from federal land.? > I was told by a BLM officer that 150 pounds can be removed a > year for non-commercial/hobby purposes.? The BLM will > issue free non-commercial use permits if requested. I found > that they will even mail them to you free.? If you are > caught removing minerals without one, the fines can be as > great as $100,000.00 or a year in jail. > This is from their document: *** Persons who remove mineral materials from public lands without a permit or contract are considered unauthorized users and in trespass. In addition, unauthorized users may be fined as much as $100,000 and sentenced up to 1 year in jail. This does not apply to the hobby collection of stone or petrified wood where reasonable amounts of these materials are taken without a permit for personal or nonprofit use, provided that such collection does not cause unnecessary or undue degradation. *** I think that last paragraph applies to most of us. Make sure you're doing it for hobby purposes. But they are the ones who will initially determine "reasonable amount". I've met two really unreasonable people over the years who are hard to forget (at least with the Forest Service). But most are great folks. I think the 250 lbs. per year applies to petrified wood. Even if you do have a permit, you can't sell the material, and there are lots of hurtles one must overcome to get it granted. *** The permittee is not allowed to barter or sell the mineral materials acquired under the permit. Before issuing contracts or free-use permits, the BLM must conduct appropriate environmental assessments. These include special studies or inventories of cultural values, threatened or endangered plant and wildlife species, or other resources. Stipulations or conditions will be included in the terms of the contract to ensure protection of the environment and reclamation of the land. *** If you keep it at the hobby level you should have no worries. Make sure to keep a copy of this with you while you hunt and, while most agents are nice, if they try to scare you with the law, pull it out and say you've done your homework. If they're the type who doesn't like people messing around the land, they will say they don't appreciate what you're doing and they'll say they would like you to leave. But they can't make you leave and they will then leave to go about their business. It also helps to meet with some of the agents before you head our and drop their names as you discuss it. It always helps if you figure out the land ownership of the area you're interested in and to familiarize yourself with the regs. Happy hunting and tread lightly! Mark Vail, AZ From cdtucson at cox.net Sun Jul 5 20:22:34 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:22:34 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall Message-ID: <20090705202234.S11JZ.188800.imail@fed1rmwml41> Mike, With all due respect, asking to trust you is a funny way to make a point. I know you are good Mike but nobody without a crystal ball can tell you how long a meteorite has sat on the ground. It takes science for that and I think you know that. I don't mean to sound insulting I just can't believe you believe what you are saying here. Wouldn't scientific proof of age on Earth be better than a guess? Although this area may be considered part of the Sonora desert , it is hardly defined that way based on rainfall. In fact we have the most lush desert in the world because we do get a lot of rainfall. Much more than a desert by definition gets. I believe it is over 10 inches officially but more to the point we have torrential flooding that kills and buries human bodies deep in mud for years before they can be found. Our rain is a serious event and our storms rank with the best of them. So,please don't try and kid us into believing that rain is no problem. I would be happy to help you save these little critters before they drown. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- meteoritehunter at comcast.net wrote: > > > Carl, > > If you can't tell new fall meteorites with their pristine blue-black crust and sheen, and grass embedded in them, then it is time for a new hobby. I know you have not seen more than the one photo but trust me, > > this fall is as fresh as it gets without hitting you on the head. > > Yes, the area is huge, only homework allowed Jack to find the fall site, driving around in circles wont help. You must go back to the beginning. > > Uof A's involvement is between Jack and them. > > West was a disaster, though the initial find and rapid movement to the lab was perfect, the onslought afterward is the problem. > > The rains have already come, so a few more wont change the fact that only the first few finds are still pristine, this is desert, so it is not like they are in Florida. > > Don't worry, they will be taken care of. > > Michael Farmer > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: cdtucson at cox.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Jack Schrader" > Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 4:46:16 PM GMT -07:00 U.S. Mountain Time (Arizona) > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall > > Jack, > I am a newbie at this list but I have been hunting for many years. I also have had a few successes. Your success here is no small feat. I have just spent the better part of the past two days hunting with the best knowledge I could obtain. I have tried to do exactly as Darren recommends and you have already done. > I too am frustrated not by your actions but of the overwhelming size of the area in which to search. > The area from I-10 and highway 191 to north of Sierra vista in hundreds of square miles. I found first of all that most of that area is either Posted State land with No trespassing signs without a permit everywhere or area that does not resemble the terrain in your photos. Yes, I want to know your trick? I have put nearly 500 miles on my car and seen nothing but mining slag. I mean more slag than I have ever seen in my life. > My other question is ; what does U of A have to do with this? I ask because when I contact them they have zero interest in anything related to meteorites. Period. They simply refer all inquiries to either ASU or UCLA. They don't even have anyone there that wants to look at them. > Another question is who is going to study and do the radio nuclides test that Bernd spoke of? because without that you have no idea if this is from the fall ?we all just read about or another fall from the distant past. > another question is what do you mean about the West being done badly. I read the list and was under the impression that West was a textbook example of the right way to do things. Doug sent the first specimen off right away to Rubin and the rest is history. > I guess I am saying that many of us including me would be happy to follow your rules and learn from you and be a part if this and now is always better than later especially with the monsoons here. Many of this precious material WILL be lost if not collected quickly. If you live here you must already realize this. So. I ask you to please consider letting more of us in on this with your leadership and rules? > Oh and one other very important point. CONGRATS to you. And thank you for your consideration. > Carl > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > > > ---- Jack Schrader wrote: > > > > Dear list members. > > > > I have today received an email from a person.? He sent the message to the list and not to me personally so you already know who this person is.? If he had sent the message to me personally, I would have treated it with complete confidentiality.? I feel that it is important to share the information I shared with him with the members of this list.? Most of the people on this list have been involved with the science of meteorites for many years and have already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can only come from years of experience. This list has been very fortunate to have been joined by people who are new to the science and to the wonderful hobby of collecting meteorites.? His email was not sent to be malicious but was sent out of frustration and out of his enthusiastic desire to be able to look for a new meteorite and to actually find one for himself..? These people who hold this intense enthusiasm are the people we need in this science, this > > ?hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to venture out, find and be the first one to touch a stone that acually fell to earth from space.? I have copied the information I sent to him below.? I hope others who are experiencing similar feelings of frustration at the present time will benefit from this as well. > > > > > > Hello.? This fall is a very rare, a very important and historic fall for this state and for the University of Arizona in particular as the site is very literally in their own back yard.? It is vitally important that the area be protected for only as long as it takes to properly record and document the fall.? I have seen what happens to an area when?the location?is announced publicly too early.? The area is almost immediately deluged and over run with not only the true professional meteorite hunters who are actually trying to do something good and recover the stones properly with GPS coordinates and photographic evidence of the stones in situ but with every treasure seeker and rock hunter and curiosity seeker who could care less about the science but more about simply having something cool to show off to their friends.? This is okay too and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this but right now is not the time for this.? This area is presently > > ?pristine and kin to a very delicate archaeological site.? The archaeologists need to do the proper work in the area before the "pot > > hunters" find it and destroy any information that could otherwise be learned from the site.? My intention is certainly not simply just for the money or the stones that can be recovered.? When you really give this some thought, you will realize that I did not have to tell a single soul about this.? I discovered this remote area entirely on my own using the knowledge that I have gained over many years of hunting meteorites. I could have very easily kept this site to myself and hunted it for months and months.? But the path I chose was simply to do the right thing.? I made a proper announcement and I have begun preparations for conducting a proper search and recording of the fall site.? Please do not worry.? You will get your opportunity to hunt the area.? There will be stones in this area to be recovered for years to come and you will find yours.? And they will be free, you will not have to buy anything.? The area as any area where meteorite have > > ?fallen either in recent or in ancient times is impossible to > > hunt out completely.? I am just simply asking for a little time that it takes to be able to properly record this fall site so the information may be available to the University of Arizona and to any other institutions and meteoriticists in the world who may have an interest in the work that we will be doing.? It is too important to risk destroying the information at this point not only for the science that can be gained from the area but for the generations to come who may have an interest in learning more about the dynamics of meteors and the variety of strewn field types that they create.? I do appreciate your understanding.? My very best wishes, Dr. Jack Schrader > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 20:29:14 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:29:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall Message-ID: <689913.23577.qm@web54401.mail.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > I guess I am saying that many of us including me would be > happy to follow your rules and learn from you and be a part > if this and now is always better than later especially with > the monsoons here. Many of this precious material WILL be > lost if not collected quickly. If you live here you must > already realize this. So. I ask you to please consider > letting more of us in on this with your leadership and > rules? > Oh and one other very important point. CONGRATS to you. And > thank you for your consideration. > Carl Amen and amen. 1) You're clearly in a Mesquite Bosque/flood plain - some material will be lost in those washes. 2) A much deserved congratulations to Carl!!! Mark Vail, AZ Have Garmin Will Travel From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 20:29:49 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:29:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall Message-ID: <452225.65747.qm@web110611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I am not asking you to do anything, I give a crap if you trust me or not, it does not need your approval. I said that the work is being done, you do not need to know the details. I have hunted falls on 6 of the 7 continents, I think I have learned over the last 13 years what a fall is. I also know about rainfall, and as I said, the stones have now been rained on, further rains will change little. Of course we want to get them as soon as possible, but we tried that in West and it did not work out so well. We will try much more low key here. thanks for the advice. Michael Farmer --- On Sun, 7/5/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > From: cdtucson at cox.net > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall > To: meteoritehunter at comcast.net > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 6:22 PM > Mike, > With all due respect, asking to trust you is a funny way to > make a point. I know you are good Mike but nobody without a > crystal ball can tell you how long a meteorite has sat on > the ground. It takes science for that and I think you know > that. I don't mean to sound insulting I just can't believe > you believe what you are saying here. Wouldn't scientific > proof of age on Earth be better than a guess? > Although this area may be considered part of the Sonora > desert , it is hardly defined that way based on rainfall. In > fact we have the most lush desert in the world because we do > get a lot of rainfall. Much more than a desert by definition > gets. I believe it is over 10 inches officially but more to > the point we have torrential flooding that kills and buries > human bodies deep in mud for years before they can be found. > Our rain is a serious event and our storms rank with the > best of them. So,please don't try and kid us into believing > that rain is no problem. > I would be happy to help you save these little critters > before they drown. > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > > > ---- meteoritehunter at comcast.net > wrote: > > > > > > Carl, > > > > If you can't tell new fall meteorites with their > pristine blue-black crust and sheen, and grass embedded in > them, then it is time for a new hobby. I know you have not > seen more than the one photo but trust me, > > > > this fall is as fresh as it gets without hitting you > on the head. > > > > Yes, the area is huge, only homework allowed Jack to > find the fall site, driving around in circles wont help. You > must go back to the beginning. > > > > Uof A's involvement is between Jack and them. > > > > West was a disaster, though the initial find and rapid > movement to the lab was perfect, the onslought afterward is > the problem. > > > > The rains have already come, so a few more wont change > the fact that only the first few finds are still pristine, > this is desert, so it is not like they are in Florida. > > > > Don't worry, they will be taken care of. > > > > Michael Farmer > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: cdtucson at cox.net > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, > "Jack Schrader" > > > Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 4:46:16 PM GMT -07:00 U.S. > Mountain Time (Arizona) > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the > Arizona Fall > > > > Jack, > > I am a newbie at this list but I have been hunting for > many years. I also have had a few successes. Your success > here is no small feat. I have just spent the better part of > the past two days hunting with the best knowledge I could > obtain. I have tried to do exactly as Darren recommends and > you have already done. > > I too am frustrated not by your actions but of the > overwhelming size of the area in which to search. > > The area from I-10 and highway 191 to north of Sierra > vista in hundreds of square miles. I found first of all that > most of that area is either Posted State land with No > trespassing signs without a permit everywhere or area that > does not resemble the terrain in your photos. Yes, I want to > know your trick? I have put nearly 500 miles on my car and > seen nothing but mining slag. I mean more slag than I have > ever seen in my life. > > My other question is ; what does U of A have to do > with this? I ask because when I contact them they have zero > interest in anything related to meteorites. Period. They > simply refer all inquiries to either ASU or UCLA. They don't > even have anyone there that wants to look at them. > > Another question is who is going to study and do the > radio nuclides test that Bernd spoke of? because without > that you have no idea if this is from the fall ?we all just > read about or another fall from the distant past. > > another question is what do you mean about the West > being done badly. I read the list and was under the > impression that West was a textbook example of the right way > to do things. Doug sent the first specimen off right away to > Rubin and the rest is history. > > I guess I am saying that many of us including me would > be happy to follow your rules and learn from you and be a > part if this and now is always better than later especially > with the monsoons here. Many of this precious material WILL > be lost if not collected quickly. If you live here you must > already realize this. So. I ask you to please consider > letting more of us in on this with your leadership and > rules? > > Oh and one other very important point. CONGRATS to > you. And thank you for your consideration. > > Carl > > > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > Meteoritemax > > > > > > ---- Jack Schrader > wrote: > > > > > > Dear list members. > > > > > > I have today received an email from a person.? > He sent the message to the list and not to me personally so > you already know who this person is.? If he had sent the > message to me personally, I would have treated it with > complete confidentiality.? I feel that it is important to > share the information I shared with him with the members of > this list.? Most of the people on this list have been > involved with the science of meteorites for many years and > have already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can only > come from years of experience. This list has been very > fortunate to have been joined by people who are new to the > science and to the wonderful hobby of collecting > meteorites.? His email was not sent to be malicious but was > sent out of frustration and out of his enthusiastic desire > to be able to look for a new meteorite and to actually find > one for himself..? These people who hold this intense > enthusiasm are the people we need in this science, this > > > ?hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to > venture out, find and be the first one to touch a stone that > acually fell to earth from space.? I have copied the > information I sent to him below.? I hope others who are > experiencing similar feelings of frustration at the present > time will benefit from this as well. > > > > > > > > > Hello.? This fall is a very rare, a very > important and historic fall for this state and for the > University of Arizona in particular as the site is very > literally in their own back yard.? It is vitally important > that the area be protected for only as long as it takes to > properly record and document the fall.? I have seen what > happens to an area when?the location?is announced publicly > too early.? The area is almost immediately deluged and over > run with not only the true professional meteorite hunters > who are actually trying to do something good and recover the > stones properly with GPS coordinates and photographic > evidence of the stones in situ but with every treasure > seeker and rock hunter and curiosity seeker who could care > less about the science but more about simply having > something cool to show off to their friends.? This is okay > too and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this but > right now is not the time for this.? This area is presently > > > > ?pristine and kin to a very delicate > archaeological site.? The archaeologists need to do the > proper work in the area before the "pot > > > hunters" find it and destroy any information that > could otherwise be learned from the site.? My intention is > certainly not simply just for the money or the stones that > can be recovered.? When you really give this some thought, > you will realize that I did not have to tell a single soul > about this.? I discovered this remote area entirely on my > own using the knowledge that I have gained over many years > of hunting meteorites. I could have very easily kept this > site to myself and hunted it for months and months.? But > the path I chose was simply to do the right thing.? I made > a proper announcement and I have begun preparations for > conducting a proper search and recording of the fall site.? > Please do not worry.? You will get your opportunity to hunt > the area.? There will be stones in this area to be > recovered for years to come and you will find yours.? And > they will be free, you will not have to buy anything.? The > area as any area where meteorite have > > > ?fallen either in recent or in ancient times is > impossible to > > > hunt out completely.? I am just simply asking > for a little time that it takes to be able to properly > record this fall site so the information may be available to > the University of Arizona and to any other institutions and > meteoriticists in the world who may have an interest in the > work that we will be doing.? It is too important to risk > destroying the information at this point not only for the > science that can be gained from the area but for the > generations to come who may have an interest in learning > more about the dynamics of meteors and the variety of strewn > field types that they create.? I do appreciate your > understanding.? My very best wishes, Dr. Jack Schrader > > > > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 20:34:28 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall Message-ID: <926408.45678.qm@web54410.mail.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > a fall is.? I also > know about rainfall, and as I said, the stones have now been > rained on, further rains will change little. > Michael Farmer > Mike, Carl is referring to the flash flooding which will inevitable wash them away. It will happen to all of them that have fallen into washes. It would be a good idea to hit all the washes first. mark B Vail, AZ From jgrossman at usgs.gov Sun Jul 5 20:36:38 2009 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:36:38 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall In-Reply-To: <671939.20870.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <671939.20870.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A514716.40403@usgs.gov> I am skeptical that this covers meteorites, even if a BLM employee thinks it does. Very skeptical. jeff Adam Hupe wrote: > Dear List, > > A question came up about who owns meteorites found on federal land. > > Below is a link that can be cut and pasted into a browser that discusses removal of minerals from federal land. I was told by a BLM officer that 150 pounds can be removed a year for non-commercial/hobby purposes. The BLM will issue free non-commercial use permits if requested. I found that they will even mail them to you free. If you are caught removing minerals without one, the fines can be as great as $100,000.00 or a year in jail. > > If a meteorite weighs more than 150 pounds, it will have to be cut in the field and the rest recovered during subsequent years or the Smithsonian may claim it. The BLM can and will come after you if profits from any object including meteorites are taken from the sale of minerals from federal land. I was told that eBay is monitored all of time and notes taken. I made some poor agent spend more than an hour on the phone explaining what is and isn't acceptable to them to avoid future problems. > > The good news is that you can keep the meteorites! > > I think Jack,s approach of keeping the press out of this fall is well thought out. The first thing the press will do is mention there is monetary value in meteorites and then "Gold Fever" will set in. I have seen people do strange things and come up with poorly thought out plans when "Gold Fever" takes hold. People with this affliction are usually the ones that relentlessly chase the press instead of looking for meteorites themselves. They will stab fellow hunters in the back and forget all about long-forged friendships. They are best avoided all-together. > > Here is a link that will explain mineral laws in simple English: > > http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE_PROTECTION_/non-energy_minerals.Par.48557.File.dat/sand.pdf > > > By the way, Congratulations Jack, excellent job all around! > > > Best Regards, > > Adam > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 20:41:01 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:41:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall Message-ID: <6280.86201.qm@web54408.mail.yahoo.com> Carl, I think he was referring to degradation caused by rain. I don't think he considered flash flooding. You're right though, this isn't the "high and dry" sand of Holbrook. These washes will be filled with water and these stones will be washed away and buried, the crust quickly ground off by the coarse quartz sand and lost forever. These are energetic and violent events. Mark Bowling Vail, AZ --- On Sun, 7/5/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > So,please don't try and kid us into believing > that rain is no problem. > I would be happy to help you save these little critters > before they drown. > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza From cdtucson at cox.net Sun Jul 5 20:44:21 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:44:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall In-Reply-To: <4A514716.40403@usgs.gov> Message-ID: <20090705204421.7NORH.189031.imail@fed1rmwml41> Jeff, This area is overwhelmingly state land. It is fenced entirely and at every gate it is clearly posted No Trespassing and entry requires a permit. Very serious and scary signs. And lots of Border patrol in area. I would say that a border patrol passes every two minutes on all of the roads in southern AZ. If nothing else these signs keep law abiding citizens like me out. Is there a way around this? Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Jeff Grossman wrote: > I am skeptical that this covers meteorites, even if a BLM employee > thinks it does. Very skeptical. > > jeff > > Adam Hupe wrote: > > Dear List, > > > > A question came up about who owns meteorites found on federal land. > > > > Below is a link that can be cut and pasted into a browser that discusses removal of minerals from federal land. I was told by a BLM officer that 150 pounds can be removed a year for non-commercial/hobby purposes. The BLM will issue free non-commercial use permits if requested. I found that they will even mail them to you free. If you are caught removing minerals without one, the fines can be as great as $100,000.00 or a year in jail. > > > > If a meteorite weighs more than 150 pounds, it will have to be cut in the field and the rest recovered during subsequent years or the Smithsonian may claim it. The BLM can and will come after you if profits from any object including meteorites are taken from the sale of minerals from federal land. I was told that eBay is monitored all of time and notes taken. I made some poor agent spend more than an hour on the phone explaining what is and isn't acceptable to them to avoid future problems. > > > > The good news is that you can keep the meteorites! > > > > I think Jack,s approach of keeping the press out of this fall is well thought out. The first thing the press will do is mention there is monetary value in meteorites and then "Gold Fever" will set in. I have seen people do strange things and come up with poorly thought out plans when "Gold Fever" takes hold. People with this affliction are usually the ones that relentlessly chase the press instead of looking for meteorites themselves. They will stab fellow hunters in the back and forget all about long-forged friendships. They are best avoided all-together. > > > > Here is a link that will explain mineral laws in simple English: > > > > http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE_PROTECTION_/non-energy_minerals.Par.48557.File.dat/sand.pdf > > > > > > By the way, Congratulations Jack, excellent job all around! > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Adam > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > -- > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 20:46:50 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall Message-ID: <633739.6993.qm@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Jeff Grossman wrote: > I am skeptical that this covers > meteorites, even if a BLM employee > thinks it does. Very skeptical. > > jeff > It doesn't specifically refer to meteorites in that document, but maybe the laws which govern meteorites supersede these regs...(??). It's up to the agents to make a judgment call (and who can afford to fight them in court?). I only hunt rocks... From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 20:50:28 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall Message-ID: <393153.39537.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Jeff, I beg to differ with your opinion. I talked with several BLM officers and received conflicting assessments. This is where I agree with you. Where I disagree is that the officers entrusted with enforcing the law all stated that meteorites could be removed for non-commercial purposes. I was told several times that there are no laws on the books that address meteorites directly so mineral laws apply. I was told that metal detectors and other locating equipment could not be used in areas that also contained artifacts. In these areas, they would have to be searched for with the naked eye. It sounds that they have considered this issue at length and anybody is free to purse meteorites on federal land. There are some areas that are well protected such as Ivanpah that do require a use permit. My advice is not to take my word for it, check for yourself to avoid any problems. Best Regards, Adam --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Jeff Grossman wrote: > From: Jeff Grossman > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall > To: "Meteorite-list" > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:36 PM > I am skeptical that this covers > meteorites, even if a BLM employee > thinks it does.? Very skeptical. > > jeff > > Adam Hupe wrote: > > Dear List, > > > > A question came up about who owns meteorites found on > federal land. > > > > Below is a link that can be cut and pasted into a > browser that discusses removal of minerals from federal > land.? I was told by a BLM officer that 150 pounds can > be removed a year for non-commercial/hobby purposes.? > The BLM will issue free non-commercial use permits if > requested. I found that they will even mail them to you > free.? If you are caught removing minerals without one, > the fines can be as great as $100,000.00 or a year in jail. > > > > If a meteorite weighs more than 150 pounds, it will > have to be cut in the field and the rest recovered during > subsequent years or the Smithsonian may claim it. The BLM > can and will come after you if profits from any object > including meteorites are taken from the sale of minerals > from federal land. I was told that eBay is monitored all of > time and notes taken.? I made some poor agent spend > more than an hour on the phone explaining what is and isn't > acceptable to them to avoid future problems. > > > > The good news is that you can keep the meteorites! > > > > I think Jack,s approach of keeping the press out of > this fall is well thought out. The first thing the press > will do is mention there is monetary value in meteorites and > then "Gold Fever" will set in. I have seen people do strange > things and come up with poorly thought out plans when "Gold > Fever" takes hold. People with this affliction are usually > the ones that relentlessly chase the press instead of > looking for meteorites themselves. They will stab fellow > hunters in the back and forget all about long-forged > friendships. They are best avoided all-together. > > > > Here is a link that will explain mineral laws in > simple English: > > > > http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE_PROTECTION_/non-energy_minerals.Par.48557.File.dat/sand.pdf > > > > > > By the way, Congratulations Jack, excellent job all > around! > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Adam > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > >??? > > > -- > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman? ? > ???phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey? ? ? ? ? > fax:???(703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From cdtucson at cox.net Sun Jul 5 20:55:20 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:55:20 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rain in Az today Message-ID: <20090705205520.3WCRV.189175.imail@fed1rmwml41> Mark, Ruben, List The way it rained there today I doubt any meteorites remain. It poured down rain. My wipers were going full speed and even non wash areas had enough water to pick up and wash away all small rocks and yes, meteorites too. very sad. Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Sun Jul 5 20:58:31 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 17:58:31 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall In-Reply-To: <6280.86201.qm@web54408.mail.yahoo.com> References: <6280.86201.qm@web54408.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4543AC9D-BBCB-4D60-B6E3-8711D29E0663@comcast.net> We know about the flooding potential here since all of us hunting are from Arizona. Why do you think I sent a photo of us in the wash? By the way anyone thinking of hunting here should really understand how our summer storms work. If you park you car anywhere that water can flow you can kiss it goodbye and your life as well as we go from sand to raging torrents of water in seconds even if not raining on you. Be careful. Flooding has already begun at my house found two frogs in the yard last night. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 5, 2009, at 5:41 PM, Mark Bowling wrote: > > Carl, > > I think he was referring to degradation caused by rain. I don't > think he considered flash flooding. > > You're right though, this isn't the "high and dry" sand of > Holbrook. These washes will be filled with water and these stones > will be washed away and buried, the crust quickly ground off by the > coarse quartz sand and lost forever. These are energetic and > violent events. > > Mark Bowling > Vail, AZ > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: >> So,please don't try and kid us into believing >> that rain is no problem. >> I would be happy to help you save these little critters >> before they drown. >> -- >> Carl or Debbie Esparza > From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 21:00:41 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:00:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall Message-ID: <246417.96790.qm@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > Jeff, This area is overwhelmingly > state land. It is fenced entirely and at every gate it is > clearly posted No Trespassing and entry requires a permit. > Very serious and scary signs. And lots of Border patrol in > area. I would say that a border patrol passes every two > minutes on all of the roads in southern AZ. If nothing else > these signs keep law abiding citizens like me out. Is there > a way around this? Carl > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > I believe you must get a prospecting permit to hunt on State Land. I'd check with the State Land Department. Here's what I turned up. --- Arizona State Trust lands are not public lands such as National Parks or Federal Forests. Any use of State Trust land requires a permit from the Arizona State Land Department with a few exceptions. Permits are available in several formats to accommodate individual, family and group needs. The Minerals Section of the Arizona State Land Department (ASLD) is responsible for mining / mineral activities on State Trust land. Arizona State Land Department MINERALS SECTION 1616 West Adams Street Phoenix, Arizona 85007 602-542-4628 fax 602-542-3507 www.land.state.az.us Details for each mineral category can be obtained from ASLD's Minerals Section at 602-542-4628. **Note: Recreational mining or mineral collecting on State Trust land is prohibited --- Well that last part settles that... No mineral collecting (rock hounding). D'oh! Mark Vail, AZ From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 20:53:26 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 20:53:26 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Meteorite Garage Sale Part 2 - Micros, Impactites, Auctions, More Message-ID: Hi Listees! I have an eclectic mixture of offerings this week. Remember - List Members use coupon code "metlist" at checkout on my website for a 25% discount off your entire order. :) A quick shout out - Congratulations again to Dr. Jack Schrader on his recent recovery of the NEW ARIZONA FALL! ---------------------------------------- First, I have some micromounts available on eBay with Buy-It-Now prices : NWA 1877 - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290328862494 Zag - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290328862875 NWA 2126 Eucrite - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290328863724 New Orleans - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290328864087 ALH 76009 (Antarctic) - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290328865203 Carancas - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290328865916 ------------------------------------------------ I will combine shipping on multiple micromounts. In addition to the micros on eBay, I have the following new arrivals available (limited supply) - Bjurbole - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126509/Bjurbole--Historical-Witnessed-Fall-1899--Rare-LLL4_835044.html Ghubara - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126576/Ghubara--L5-Xenolithic-Meteorite--Oman-1954_828500.html Imilac skeletons - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/162319/Imilac-Pallasite-Skeletons_798274.html NWA 869 Endcuts - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126507/NWA-869-Small-Endcuts-and-Slices--Great-for-Jewelry_841510.html NWA 869 Slices - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126507/NWA-869-Crusted-Meteorite-Slice--468-grams_841164.html Sulagiri (Hosur) - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126576/Sulagiri--Witnessed-Fall-LL6-Chondrite-from-India-2008_844937.html Oriented Bullet UNWA - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126509/Superb-Oriented-UNWA-Stone-Meteorite--415-grams_841810.html Oum Dreyga slices (3 available) - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126507/Oum-Dreyga-witnessed-fall--Crusted-Slice--930mg_841118.html -------------------------------------------------------------- I have auctions closing over the next 2 days on eBay - including : Lunar and Martian micromounts, Darwin Glass, Silicated Campo, and Canyon Diablo. Lunar and Martian Display - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290327877937 Darwin Glass - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290328027465 Silicated Campo - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290328027888 Canyon Diablo Display Kit - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290328046064 Meteorite Toolkit (scale, loupe, magnet) - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290328119505 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2 DAY SALE (ENDS TUESDAY) - 30% OFF ALL IMPACTITES on my website - use coupon code "thirtyoff" -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for looking and clear skies! MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 21:02:25 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 21:02:25 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall In-Reply-To: <393153.39537.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <393153.39537.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi List, I was going to reply in regards to governments "owning" meteorites. Instead, I decided to post a non-reply. A victory for thinking before hitting "Send".....! LOL Best regards and congrats to Jack again! MikeG On 7/5/09, Adam Hupe wrote: > > Dear Jeff, > > I beg to differ with your opinion. > > I talked with several BLM officers and received conflicting assessments. > This is where I agree with you. > > Where I disagree is that the officers entrusted with enforcing the law all > stated that meteorites could be removed for non-commercial purposes. I was > told several times that there are no laws on the books that address > meteorites directly so mineral laws apply. I was told that metal detectors > and other locating equipment could not be used in areas that also contained > artifacts. In these areas, they would have to be searched for with the naked > eye. It sounds that they have considered this issue at length and anybody is > free to purse meteorites on federal land. There are some areas that are > well protected such as Ivanpah that do require a use permit. My advice is > not to take my word for it, check for yourself to avoid any problems. > > Best Regards, > > Adam > > > > > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Jeff Grossman wrote: > >> From: Jeff Grossman >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall >> To: "Meteorite-list" >> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:36 PM >> I am skeptical that this covers >> meteorites, even if a BLM employee >> thinks it does.? Very skeptical. >> >> jeff >> >> Adam Hupe wrote: >> > Dear List, >> > >> > A question came up about who owns meteorites found on >> federal land. >> > >> > Below is a link that can be cut and pasted into a >> browser that discusses removal of minerals from federal >> land.? I was told by a BLM officer that 150 pounds can >> be removed a year for non-commercial/hobby purposes. >> The BLM will issue free non-commercial use permits if >> requested. I found that they will even mail them to you >> free.? If you are caught removing minerals without one, >> the fines can be as great as $100,000.00 or a year in jail. >> > >> > If a meteorite weighs more than 150 pounds, it will >> have to be cut in the field and the rest recovered during >> subsequent years or the Smithsonian may claim it. The BLM >> can and will come after you if profits from any object >> including meteorites are taken from the sale of minerals >> from federal land. I was told that eBay is monitored all of >> time and notes taken.? I made some poor agent spend >> more than an hour on the phone explaining what is and isn't >> acceptable to them to avoid future problems. >> > >> > The good news is that you can keep the meteorites! >> > >> > I think Jack,s approach of keeping the press out of >> this fall is well thought out. The first thing the press >> will do is mention there is monetary value in meteorites and >> then "Gold Fever" will set in. I have seen people do strange >> things and come up with poorly thought out plans when "Gold >> Fever" takes hold. People with this affliction are usually >> the ones that relentlessly chase the press instead of >> looking for meteorites themselves. They will stab fellow >> hunters in the back and forget all about long-forged >> friendships. They are best avoided all-together. >> > >> > Here is a link that will explain mineral laws in >> simple English: >> > >> > http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE_PROTECTION_/non-energy_minerals.Par.48557.File.dat/sand.pdf >> > >> > >> > By the way, Congratulations Jack, excellent job all >> around! >> > >> > >> > Best Regards, >> > >> > Adam >> > >> > ______________________________________________ >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman >> ???phone: (703) 648-6184 >> US Geological Survey >> fax:???(703) 648-6383 >> 954 National Center >> Reston, VA 20192, USA >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 21:04:41 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rain in Az today Message-ID: <591304.42105.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Arizona is a big state. Storms are scattered not a drop in Tucson today. I am sure stones are resting comfortably. Quite sure all is well... Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 5, 2009, at 5:55 PM, wrote: Mark, Ruben, List The way it rained there today I doubt any meteorites remain. It poured down rain. My wipers were going full speed and even non wash areas had enough water to pick up and wash away all small rocks and yes, meteorites too. very sad. Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 21:08:53 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall Message-ID: <736605.89827.qm@web54407.mail.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > If you park you car anywhere that water > can flow you can kiss it goodbye and your life as well as we > go from sand to raging torrents of water in seconds even if > not raining on you. Be careful. And I know you're aware Mike, but for the benefit of the noobs: take the lightning seriously.... From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 21:15:25 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:15:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rain in Az today Message-ID: <646130.95946.qm@web54407.mail.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > Mark, Ruben, List > The way it rained there today I doubt any meteorites > remain. It poured down rain. My wipers were going full speed > and even non wash areas had enough water to pick up and wash > away all small rocks and yes, meteorites too. very sad. > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 D'oh - those sheet flows can really move the rocks! We see those here in Vail. Only the huge cobbles are left. But if the terrain is rough at the fall site, the stones on the ridges/hillsides will probably "stick around" for a while... From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sun Jul 5 21:24:57 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 03:24:57 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall In-Reply-To: <4A514716.40403@usgs.gov> References: <671939.20870.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A514716.40403@usgs.gov> Message-ID: <005101c9fdd8$93fd15d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Yes Jeff, in a positive sense, cause meteorites are certainly no resources. And else I can't find meteorites mentioned at all there. And if I follow the sentence (according Austrian laws) about the Austrian part of the Neuschwanstein fall, it offers an interesting aspect, which might has to be proven first: There they decided, that the meteorite (recovered 3 years after the fall) had NOT became part of the land it was found on. Interesting, isn't it? Anyway, we can indulge in legal persnicketinesses as long as we want, clear is, that we will totally ruin that subbranch of space and Earth science, the more crude laws come into force or are tried to be overstreched. Because if not private people would pick the meteorite up - like they did the 200 years before to deliver 90% or more of the non-Antarctic finds or falls, who else should do it? With West we heard that one single person from the science side entered the field. Art Ehlmann. Then we have a Suisse team searching Oman and that was it on Earth. Else sporadically some university teams, who recover always not more than 2 or 3 stones, almost all old ordinary chondrites of minor scientific value. Antarctica is fine, but they can't bring the performance the private people are doing around the globe (that Antarcica is 100 times more expensive, one hasn't to mention anymore) and they can't recover fresh falls. If we want such a complete breakdown like in Australia, then we should carry on in inventing more and more restrictions. I'm writing from Europe, where half of the observed falls of the decade wouldn't have been recovered or noticed at all, if not private people would have cared for and where the tkws of very most of the other half would have stayed very tiny, if the private section hadn't added so many. It should be one of the most urgent missions of the Meteoritical Society in London to take care for politics and legislation around the world turning back to a state of reason and to grant that the very substance of that field of science won't be lost. Until that isn't achieved, hunters, scientists and collectors - come to Austria. Gosh, we're talking about meteorites. The most whack and strangest and rarest objects on Earth, without any cultural, economical or natural importance. And of solely scientific interest, where the researchers are glad and happy that people are going out to look for them. How anyone with a brain could come to the idea to make a law for meteorites? So - let's handle the case more pragmactically: Let Schrader, Farmer & Co. save the stones first and the strewnfield data, before we hang them for the crime to have recovered a new pristine fall for science and a fall of historical dimensions for the State of Arizona. Anybody else here, who feels the absurdity the same way like me? Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff Grossman Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juli 2009 02:37 An: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall I am skeptical that this covers meteorites, even if a BLM employee thinks it does. Very skeptical. jeff Adam Hupe wrote: > Dear List, > > A question came up about who owns meteorites found on federal land. > > Below is a link that can be cut and pasted into a browser that discusses removal of minerals from federal land. I was told by a BLM officer that 150 pounds can be removed a year for non-commercial/hobby purposes. The BLM will issue free non-commercial use permits if requested. I found that they will even mail them to you free. If you are caught removing minerals without one, the fines can be as great as $100,000.00 or a year in jail. > > If a meteorite weighs more than 150 pounds, it will have to be cut in the field and the rest recovered during subsequent years or the Smithsonian may claim it. The BLM can and will come after you if profits from any object including meteorites are taken from the sale of minerals from federal land. I was told that eBay is monitored all of time and notes taken. I made some poor agent spend more than an hour on the phone explaining what is and isn't acceptable to them to avoid future problems. > > The good news is that you can keep the meteorites! > > I think Jack,s approach of keeping the press out of this fall is well thought out. The first thing the press will do is mention there is monetary value in meteorites and then "Gold Fever" will set in. I have seen people do strange things and come up with poorly thought out plans when "Gold Fever" takes hold. People with this affliction are usually the ones that relentlessly chase the press instead of looking for meteorites themselves. They will stab fellow hunters in the back and forget all about long-forged friendships. They are best avoided all-together. > > Here is a link that will explain mineral laws in simple English: > > http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE _PROTECTION_/non-energy_minerals.Par.48557.File.dat/sand.pdf > > > By the way, Congratulations Jack, excellent job all around! > > > Best Regards, > > Adam > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun Jul 5 21:39:19 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 21:39:19 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall In-Reply-To: <005101c9fdd8$93fd15d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <671939.20870.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A514716.40403@usgs.gov> <005101c9fdd8$93fd15d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Well put Martin. :) Private landowner first - if the meteorite falls on private property. (large corporations and governments need not apply) Science next - with the hopes that private landowner will do the right thing and donate some of the fall to science. Hunters next - they do the real work to bring the specimens to light. Collectors and peanut gallery last - our dollars provide the incentive for all of the above (with the exception of science) to care about meteorites. But we don't do the field work or the science. I don't begrudge anyone who is out there in the field working this new Arizona strewnfield - provided that they are doing the right thing for the landowners and science. I envy them and wish I could be there too. Congrats again to Jack and company for working this new fall. Early question - what will this fall be called? What is the nearest geological feature or post office? Early question #2 - any guesses on what the type might be? Best regards and happy hunting, MikeG On 7/5/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > Yes Jeff, > > in a positive sense, cause meteorites are certainly no resources. > And else I can't find meteorites mentioned at all there. > > And if I follow the sentence (according Austrian laws) about the Austrian > part of the Neuschwanstein fall, it offers an interesting aspect, > which might has to be proven first: > > There they decided, that the meteorite (recovered 3 years after the fall) > had NOT became part of the land it was found on. > > Interesting, isn't it? > > Anyway, we can indulge in legal persnicketinesses as long as we want, > clear is, > that we will totally ruin that subbranch of space and Earth science, > the more crude laws come into force or are tried to be overstreched. > > Because if not private people would pick the meteorite up - like they did > the 200 years before to deliver 90% or more of the non-Antarctic finds or > falls, who else should do it? > > With West we heard that one single person from the science side entered the > field. Art Ehlmann. > > Then we have a Suisse team searching Oman and that was it on Earth. > Else sporadically some university teams, who recover always not more than 2 > or 3 stones, almost all old ordinary chondrites of minor scientific value. > > Antarctica is fine, but they can't bring the performance the private people > are doing around the globe (that Antarcica is 100 times more expensive, one > hasn't to mention anymore) and they can't recover fresh falls. > > If we want such a complete breakdown like in Australia, then we should carry > on in inventing more and more restrictions. > > I'm writing from Europe, where half of the observed falls of the decade > wouldn't have been recovered or noticed at all, if not private people would > have cared for > and where the tkws of very most of the other half would have stayed very > tiny, if the private section hadn't added so many. > > It should be one of the most urgent missions of the Meteoritical Society in > London to take care for politics and legislation around the world turning > back to a state of reason and to grant that the very substance of that field > of science won't be lost. > > Until that isn't achieved, hunters, scientists and collectors - come to > Austria. > > Gosh, we're talking about meteorites. The most whack and strangest and > rarest objects on Earth, without any cultural, economical or natural > importance. And of solely scientific interest, where the researchers are > glad and happy that people are going out to look for them. > How anyone with a brain could come to the idea to make a law for meteorites? > > > So - let's handle the case more pragmactically: > Let Schrader, Farmer & Co. save the stones first and the strewnfield data, > before we hang them for the crime to have recovered a new pristine fall for > science and a fall of historical dimensions for the State of Arizona. > > Anybody else here, who feels the absurdity the same way like me? > Martin > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff > Grossman > Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juli 2009 02:37 > An: Meteorite-list > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall > > I am skeptical that this covers meteorites, even if a BLM employee > thinks it does. Very skeptical. > > jeff > > Adam Hupe wrote: >> Dear List, >> >> A question came up about who owns meteorites found on federal land. >> >> Below is a link that can be cut and pasted into a browser that discusses > removal of minerals from federal land. I was told by a BLM officer that 150 > pounds can be removed a year for non-commercial/hobby purposes. The BLM > will issue free non-commercial use permits if requested. I found that they > will even mail them to you free. If you are caught removing minerals > without one, the fines can be as great as $100,000.00 or a year in jail. >> >> If a meteorite weighs more than 150 pounds, it will have to be cut in the > field and the rest recovered during subsequent years or the Smithsonian may > claim it. The BLM can and will come after you if profits from any object > including meteorites are taken from the sale of minerals from federal land. > I was told that eBay is monitored all of time and notes taken. I made some > poor agent spend more than an hour on the phone explaining what is and isn't > acceptable to them to avoid future problems. >> >> The good news is that you can keep the meteorites! >> >> I think Jack,s approach of keeping the press out of this fall is well > thought out. The first thing the press will do is mention there is monetary > value in meteorites and then "Gold Fever" will set in. I have seen people do > strange things and come up with poorly thought out plans when "Gold Fever" > takes hold. People with this affliction are usually the ones that > relentlessly chase the press instead of looking for meteorites themselves. > They will stab fellow hunters in the back and forget all about long-forged > friendships. They are best avoided all-together. >> >> Here is a link that will explain mineral laws in simple English: >> >> > http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE > _PROTECTION_/non-energy_minerals.Par.48557.File.dat/sand.pdf >> >> >> By the way, Congratulations Jack, excellent job all around! >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Adam >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > -- > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 21:47:51 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:47:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? Message-ID: <597208.19876.qm@web46411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Its for the very reasons you mentioned that I asked to be a part of this hunt. As I have never had experience at something like this, I wanted to be a part of it and use it as a learning experience. To be told that the location would be kept secret I feel is wrong. I see something like the west fall happening where what is recovered will be overpriced ($100 per gram or more) due to whatever reasons those in the field want to give. I have not been following this thread - I have been busy - but when I found out about the fall, I asked if I could tag along and was told no, becouse the loaction was being kept secret becouse people did not want to get burned like at the west fall. What would you conclude from that? I wanted to join in more form the experience not for the profits that will come from the hunt, if I had found just one, I would have been tickled and extremely happy. Greg --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Greg Hupe wrote: > From: Greg Hupe > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? > To: cynapse at charter.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:30 PM > Greg Catterton, > > I am very surprised to hear such BS come out of your mouth! > Jack Schrader is not a dealer, Robert and Shauna are not > dealers, they all "hunt" primarily. I am disgusted to read > your words saying it is "...the big dealers..." this or > that. Like Darren said, "Go out there and do your (own) > homework!" I know that Jack and "Team" are doing everything > possible to get all of the science collected before it gets > screwed up by the everyday Joe-Meteorite Hunter. What kind > of accurate science has been done on Franconia, etc. NONE! > This is a chance to do it right, and Jack and his team of > trusted friends are doing it, nothing to do with > self-promotion, News interviews or other distracting crap. > > Let them do their job and wait for the future > announcement(s). In the mean time, give credit where it is > due and quit making this seem like some sort of conspiracy. > Hard work, great reward = results, both for science and > collectors!! > > By the way, Greg C., have you given Jack the proper respect > and congratulations for an amazing story of home work and > recovery?!! > > Best regards, > Greg Hupe > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 5:33 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? > > > > On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:11:33 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > > > >> > >> I would like to go join the hunt for meteorites at > the recent fall, but it seems this is being kept a secret > location... Is this to drive the prices up? > >> > > > > Probably more an attempt to keep it from being the > same type of chaotic circus > > the falls that get press turn out to be-- which always > end up with yahoos > > showing up and making the whole meteorite > dealer/collecter community look bad. > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From bencubbin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 5 21:48:11 2009 From: bencubbin at hotmail.com (Howard Steffic) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:48:11 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? Of Course !!!! In-Reply-To: <46018.95475.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <46018.95475.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have been panning for gold in the Sierra and got real lucky this summer. Why don't I just tell you my GPS co-ordinates so you can come help me. Especially since you did half the leg work.......NOT!!!! Take a chill pill Greg, I don't think any of the dealers will miss any of your precious $ Howard Steffic > Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 13:11:33 -0700 > From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? > > > I would like to go join the hunt for meteorites at the recent fall, but it seems this is being kept a secret location... Is this to drive the prices up? > > One would think extra sets of eyes and hands would be great, but in my opinion it seems a select group is the only ones who will be "allowed" hunting the field then they will in turn charge $100 per gram, yet again for something that is worth far less. > > Not cool at all. I know I will not be buying from any of you hunting ever again who dont want to allow someone to tag along for the first hunt they would do. > If this is the way you "big time" hunters want to conduct yourselves, it shows just what your intentions are. Money. > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 21:50:37 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 18:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: Arizona fall Message-ID: <728588.19425.qm@web54407.mail.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > > So - let's handle the case more pragmactically: > Let Schrader, Farmer & Co. save the stones first and > the strewnfield data, > before we hang them for the crime to have recovered a new > pristine fall for > science and a fall of historical dimensions for the State > of Arizona. > > Anybody else here, who feels the absurdity the same way > like me? > Martin > Reminds me of that poem Lawyers & Experts. It finishes "And all the famous fight who saw Beheld, with mingled pride and awe, What science breeds when crossed with law." It's law (& politics) - it doesn't mean it makes sense or ends pretty. But I don't see anything happening to them. To me they are providing a valuable service. Only time will tell. From bencubbin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 5 22:00:25 2009 From: bencubbin at hotmail.com (Howard Steffic) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 20:00:25 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? In-Reply-To: References: <46018.95475.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Eventually the press will show up. This can not stay quiet forever. Then we will see who is responsible for the resulting "cluster" and chaos. Howard Steffic ---------------------------------------- > From: cynapse at charter.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 16:33:39 -0500 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? > > > Probably more an attempt to keep it from being the same type of chaotic circus > the falls that get press turn out to be-- which always end up with yahoos > showing up and making the whole meteorite dealer/collecter community look bad. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 22:13:21 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:13:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] OFF LIST -list] Arizona fall Message-ID: <667511.53730.qm@web54404.mail.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > > Private landowner first - if the meteorite falls on private > property. > (large corporations and governments need not apply) > Ouch, I work for a large corporation and we're just as liable for any damage or injury caused by/to a trespasser. Why not respect their property rights? They have deeper pockets than small landowners and are at even more threat of lawsuit. I think they would most likely donate any discovered meteorite to the AZ Mineral Museum or the Flandrau Mineral Museum which they have helped to keep open (U of A). This fall is exciting isn't it!!!!????!!! From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 22:19:19 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall Message-ID: <54594.36261.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Interesting take on all of this, Martin, I just wanted to add a few corrections to my initial post. I stated 150 pounds could be removed in a year. I reread my notes taken from what a BLM agent from Barstow said and they state that 25 pounds a day or 250 pounds a year can be legally brought out. This law was obviously written for mineral specimens that can easily be broken down in the field. I guess if you find a meteorite on open federal land that weighs over 25 pounds, it will have to be broken into several pieces and brought out over a period of time to stay within the law. This is what happens when laws are bent to cover things they were not originally intended for. Best Regards, Adam --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > From: Martin Altmann > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 6:24 PM > Yes Jeff, > > in a positive sense, cause meteorites are certainly no > resources. > And else I can't find meteorites mentioned at all there. > > And if I follow the sentence (according Austrian laws) > about the Austrian > part of the Neuschwanstein fall, it offers an interesting > aspect, > which might has to be proven first: > > There they decided, that the meteorite (recovered 3 years > after the fall) > had NOT became part of the land it was found on. > > Interesting, isn't it? > > Anyway, we can indulge in legal persnicketinesses as long > as we want, > clear is, > that we will totally ruin that subbranch of space and Earth > science, > the more crude laws come into force or are tried to be > overstreched. > > Because if not private people would pick the meteorite up - > like they did > the 200 years before to deliver 90% or more of the > non-Antarctic finds or > falls, who else should do it? > > With West we heard that one single person from the science > side entered the > field. Art Ehlmann. > > Then we have a Suisse team searching Oman and that was it > on Earth. > Else sporadically some university teams, who recover always > not more than 2 > or 3 stones, almost all old ordinary chondrites of minor > scientific value. > > Antarctica is fine, but they can't bring the performance > the private people > are doing around the globe (that Antarcica is 100 times > more expensive, one > hasn't to mention anymore) and they can't recover fresh > falls. > > If we want such a complete breakdown like in Australia, > then we should carry > on in inventing more and more restrictions. > > I'm writing from Europe, where half of the observed falls > of the decade > wouldn't have been recovered or noticed at all, if not > private people would > have cared for > and where the tkws of very most of the other half would > have stayed very > tiny, if the private section hadn't added so many. > > It should be one of the most urgent missions of the > Meteoritical Society in > London to take care for politics and legislation around the > world turning > back to a state of reason and to grant that the very > substance of that field > of science won't be lost. > > Until that isn't achieved, hunters, scientists and > collectors - come to > Austria. > > Gosh, we're talking about meteorites. The most whack and > strangest and > rarest objects on Earth, without any cultural, economical > or natural > importance. And of solely scientific interest, where the > researchers are > glad and happy that people are going out to look for them. > How anyone with a brain could come to the idea to make a > law for meteorites? > > > So - let's handle the case more pragmactically: > Let Schrader, Farmer & Co. save the stones first and > the strewnfield data, > before we hang them for the crime to have recovered a new > pristine fall for > science and a fall of historical dimensions for the State > of Arizona. > > Anybody else here, who feels the absurdity the same way > like me? > Martin > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] > Im Auftrag von Jeff > Grossman > Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juli 2009 02:37 > An: Meteorite-list > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall > > I am skeptical that this covers meteorites, even if a BLM > employee > thinks it does.? Very skeptical. > > jeff > > Adam Hupe wrote: > > Dear List, > > > > A question came up about who owns meteorites found on > federal land. > > > > Below is a link that can be cut and pasted into a > browser that discusses > removal of minerals from federal land.? I was told by > a BLM officer that 150 > pounds can be removed a year for non-commercial/hobby > purposes.? The BLM > will issue free non-commercial use permits if requested. I > found that they > will even mail them to you free.? If you are caught > removing minerals > without one, the fines can be as great as $100,000.00 or a > year in jail. > > > > If a meteorite weighs more than 150 pounds, it will > have to be cut in the > field and the rest recovered during subsequent years or the > Smithsonian may > claim it. The BLM can and will come after you if profits > from any object > including meteorites are taken from the sale of minerals > from federal land. > I was told that eBay is monitored all of time and notes > taken.? I made some > poor agent spend more than an hour on the phone explaining > what is and isn't > acceptable to them to avoid future problems. > > > > The good news is that you can keep the meteorites! > > > > I think Jack,s approach of keeping the press out of > this fall is well > thought out. The first thing the press will do is mention > there is monetary > value in meteorites and then "Gold Fever" will set in. I > have seen people do > strange things and come up with poorly thought out plans > when "Gold Fever" > takes hold. People with this affliction are usually the > ones that > relentlessly chase the press instead of looking for > meteorites themselves. > They will stab fellow hunters in the back and forget all > about long-forged > friendships. They are best avoided all-together. > > > > Here is a link that will explain mineral laws in > simple English: > > > > > http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE > _PROTECTION_/non-energy_minerals.Par.48557.File.dat/sand.pdf > > > > > > By the way, Congratulations Jack, excellent job all > around! > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Adam > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > >??? > > > -- > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman? ? > ???phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey? ? ? ? ? > fax:???(703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 22:22:16 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] OFF LIST -list] Arizona fall Message-ID: <815615.14985.qm@web54410.mail.yahoo.com> oops, sorry, it wasn't something I didn't want to share publicly, but I felt I've been spamming the list a bit and was trying to cut the volume... --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Mark Bowling wrote: > From: Mark Bowling > Subject: [meteorite-list] OFF LIST -list] Arizona fall > To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 7:13 PM > > > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks > wrote: > > > > Private landowner first - if the meteorite falls on > private > > property. > > (large corporations and governments need not apply) > > > > Ouch, I work for a large corporation and we're just as > liable for any damage or injury caused by/to a > trespasser. Why not respect their property > rights? They have deeper pockets than small landowners > and are at even more threat of lawsuit. > > I think they would most likely donate any discovered > meteorite to the AZ Mineral Museum or the Flandrau Mineral > Museum which they have helped to keep open (U of A). > > This fall is exciting isn't it!!!!????!!! > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 22:22:57 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] OFF LIST -list] Arizona fall Message-ID: <424801.61881.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> There is really not much need for all of this theory, you don't know where the fall is, or what land it is on, we do. Maps are pretty cool things, they tell you where you are and who owns the land. We are working on it. Nuff said. Michael Farmer --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Mark Bowling wrote: > From: Mark Bowling > Subject: [meteorite-list] OFF LIST -list] Arizona fall > To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 8:13 PM > > > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks > wrote: > > > > Private landowner first - if the meteorite falls on > private > > property. > > (large corporations and governments need not apply) > > > > Ouch, I work for a large corporation and we're just as > liable for any damage or injury caused by/to a > trespasser.? Why not respect their property > rights?? They have deeper pockets than small landowners > and are at even more threat of lawsuit. > > I think they would most likely donate any discovered > meteorite to the AZ Mineral Museum or the Flandrau Mineral > Museum which they have helped to keep open (U of A). > > This fall is exciting isn't it!!!!????!!! > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 22:25:45 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall Message-ID: <24255.35176.qm@web46408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Im glad you seem to understand where I am coming from, this was not meant as an attack, just my frustration at not being able to join in on what I would consider a great learning experience. When I was told it was being kept secret, I felt pretty upset at the fact that it seemed to be that something of a high scholl clique only type thing. I am newer at this and want to take up as many things like this as I can to better learn and understand things and thought with the gorup out there currently, I could learn alot while contributing in a good manner. I have asked many hunters to tag along on trips, becouse I dont know how to do it and really want to learn. each time I have been told no. I want to learn how to do this right and if none of these guys are willing to help me out or anyone else who wants to learn how to do it right, why should I even stay in this hobby? Greg C. --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Jack Schrader wrote: > From: Jack Schrader > Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:35 PM > > Dear list members. > > I have today received an email from a person.? He sent the > message to the list and not to me personally so you already > know who this person is.? If he had sent the message to me > personally, I would have treated it with complete > confidentiality.? I feel that it is important to share the > information I shared with him with the members of this > list.? Most of the people on this list have been involved > with the science of meteorites for many years and have > already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can only come > from years of experience. This list has been very fortunate > to have been joined by people who are new to the science and > to the wonderful hobby of collecting meteorites.? His email > was not sent to be malicious but was sent out of frustration > and out of his enthusiastic desire to be able to look for a > new meteorite and to actually find one for himself..? These > people who hold this intense enthusiasm are the people we > need in this science, this > hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to venture out, > find and be the first one to touch a stone that acually fell > to earth from space.? I have copied the information I sent > to him below.? I hope others who are experiencing similar > feelings of frustration at the present time will benefit > from this as well. > > > Hello.? This fall is a very rare, a very important and > historic fall for this state and for the University of > Arizona in particular as the site is very literally in their > own back yard.? It is vitally important that the area be > protected for only as long as it takes to properly record > and document the fall.? I have seen what happens to an area > when?the location?is announced publicly too early.? The > area is almost immediately deluged and over run with not > only the true professional meteorite hunters who are > actually trying to do something good and recover the stones > properly with GPS coordinates and photographic evidence of > the stones in situ but with every treasure seeker and rock > hunter and curiosity seeker who could care less about the > science but more about simply having something cool to show > off to their friends.? This is okay too and there is > absolutely nothing wrong with this but right now is not the > time for this.? This area is presently > pristine and kin to a very delicate archaeological site.? > The archaeologists need to do the proper work in the area > before the "pot > hunters" find it and destroy any information that could > otherwise be learned from the site.? My intention is > certainly not simply just for the money or the stones that > can be recovered.? When you really give this some thought, > you will realize that I did not have to tell a single soul > about this.? I discovered this remote area entirely on my > own using the knowledge that I have gained over many years > of hunting meteorites. I could have very easily kept this > site to myself and hunted it for months and months.? But > the path I chose was simply to do the right thing.? I made > a proper announcement and I have begun preparations for > conducting a proper search and recording of the fall site.? > Please do not worry.? You will get your opportunity to hunt > the area.? There will be stones in this area to be > recovered for years to come and you will find yours.? And > they will be free, you will not have to buy anything.? The > area as any area where meteorite have > fallen either in recent or in ancient times is impossible > to > hunt out completely.? I am just simply asking for a little > time that it takes to be able to properly record this fall > site so the information may be available to the University > of Arizona and to any other institutions and meteoriticists > in the world who may have an interest in the work that we > will be doing.? It is too important to risk destroying the > information at this point not only for the science that can > be gained from the area but for the generations to come who > may have an interest in learning more about the dynamics of > meteors and the variety of strewn field types that they > create.? I do appreciate your understanding.? My very best > wishes, Dr. Jack Schrader > > > > ? ? ? > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 22:25:51 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? Message-ID: <916692.80404.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Only those who grovel at getting their faces on the news will bring the press. I think Jack already said that he will bring them when he is ready. Anyone else calling the news will not have much to tell them other than that stones have been found. Do that, cause more problems believe me, this will turn to silence from now on. Jack was nice enough to make this public, don't make him regret it or next fall there may be no public news of it. Michael Farmer --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Howard Steffic wrote: > From: Howard Steffic > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" ? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 8:00 PM > > > Eventually the press will show up.? This can not stay > quiet forever.? Then we will see who is responsible for > the resulting "cluster" and chaos. > > > Howard Steffic > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > From: cynapse at charter.net > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 16:33:39 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizone fall "a secret" > ? > > > > > > Probably more an attempt to keep it from being the > same type of chaotic circus > > the falls that get press turn out to be-- which always > end up with yahoos > > showing up and making the whole meteorite > dealer/collecter community look bad. > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online > storage. > http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 22:30:35 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:30:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall Message-ID: <184434.76547.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Greg, you seem to have a good heart, but you are coming off as very nasty. Just go hunt, I learned on my own, most people learn by doing. My first real fall was Monahans, then months later Portales, I learned on the spot, alone, it was every man for himself. We make a living at this, now you are selling meteorites and gloating and throwing sand in the eyes of the "big dealers" on prices. Do you think this will help your chances? Come on, I spent ~$50,000 a year on hunts, and let me tell you, I must recoup this in sales, or I will be living in a cardboard box. Your emails harping on overpriced dealers are not falling on deaf ears. Go ahead, do a hunt yourself, see what the costs are for stones found, and you would find that most in West lost money, even those who found stones! Get over it, take a chance, do it. I am really not interested in training my competition, so I am not too keen to take people with me. This is not meant to be mean, but common sense. Michael Farmer --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Greg Catterton wrote: > From: Greg Catterton > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 8:25 PM > > Im glad you seem to understand where I am coming from, this > was not meant as an attack, just my frustration at not being > able to join in on what I would consider a great learning > experience. > When I was told it was being kept secret, I felt pretty > upset at the fact that it seemed to be that something of a > high scholl clique only type thing. > I am newer at this and want to take up as many things like > this as I can to better learn and understand things and > thought with the gorup out there currently, I could learn > alot while contributing in a good manner. > > I have asked many hunters to tag along on trips, becouse I > dont know how to do it and really want to learn. each time I > have been told no. > > I want to learn how to do this right and if none of these > guys are willing to help me out or anyone else who wants to > learn how to do it right, why should I even stay in this > hobby? > > Greg C. > > > > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Jack Schrader > wrote: > > > From: Jack Schrader > > Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona > Fall > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:35 PM > > > > Dear list members. > > > > I have today received an email from a person.? He > sent the > > message to the list and not to me personally so you > already > > know who this person is.? If he had sent the message > to me > > personally, I would have treated it with complete > > confidentiality.? I feel that it is important to > share the > > information I shared with him with the members of > this > > list.? Most of the people on this list have been > involved > > with the science of meteorites for many years and > have > > already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can only > come > > from years of experience. This list has been very > fortunate > > to have been joined by people who are new to the > science and > > to the wonderful hobby of collecting meteorites.? His > email > > was not sent to be malicious but was sent out of > frustration > > and out of his enthusiastic desire to be able to look > for a > > new meteorite and to actually find one for himself..? > These > > people who hold this intense enthusiasm are the people > we > > need in this science, this > >? hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to > venture out, > > find and be the first one to touch a stone that > acually fell > > to earth from space.? I have copied the information I > sent > > to him below.? I hope others who are experiencing > similar > > feelings of frustration at the present time will > benefit > > from this as well. > > > > > > Hello.? This fall is a very rare, a very important > and > > historic fall for this state and for the University > of > > Arizona in particular as the site is very literally in > their > > own back yard.? It is vitally important that the area > be > > protected for only as long as it takes to properly > record > > and document the fall.? I have seen what happens to > an area > > when?the location?is announced publicly too early.? > The > > area is almost immediately deluged and over run with > not > > only the true professional meteorite hunters who are > > actually trying to do something good and recover the > stones > > properly with GPS coordinates and photographic > evidence of > > the stones in situ but with every treasure seeker and > rock > > hunter and curiosity seeker who could care less about > the > > science but more about simply having something cool to > show > > off to their friends.? This is okay too and there is > > absolutely nothing wrong with this but right now is > not the > > time for this.? This area is presently > >? pristine and kin to a very delicate > archaeological site.? > > The archaeologists need to do the proper work in the > area > > before the "pot > > hunters" find it and destroy any information that > could > > otherwise be learned from the site.? My intention is > > certainly not simply just for the money or the stones > that > > can be recovered.? When you really give this some > thought, > > you will realize that I did not have to tell a single > soul > > about this.? I discovered this remote area entirely > on my > > own using the knowledge that I have gained over many > years > > of hunting meteorites. I could have very easily kept > this > > site to myself and hunted it for months and months.? > But > > the path I chose was simply to do the right thing.? I > made > > a proper announcement and I have begun preparations > for > > conducting a proper search and recording of the fall > site.? > > Please do not worry.? You will get your opportunity > to hunt > > the area.? There will be stones in this area to be > > recovered for years to come and you will find yours.? > And > > they will be free, you will not have to buy > anything.? The > > area as any area where meteorite have > >? fallen either in recent or in ancient times is > impossible > > to > > hunt out completely.? I am just simply asking for a > little > > time that it takes to be able to properly record this > fall > > site so the information may be available to the > University > > of Arizona and to any other institutions and > meteoriticists > > in the world who may have an interest in the work that > we > > will be doing.? It is too important to risk > destroying the > > information at this point not only for the science > that can > > be gained from the area but for the generations to > come who > > may have an interest in learning more about the > dynamics of > > meteors and the variety of strewn field types that > they > > create.? I do appreciate your understanding.? My > very best > > wishes, Dr. Jack Schrader > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 22:32:12 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 19:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] OFF LIST -list] Arizona fall Message-ID: <911766.19862.qm@web54410.mail.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > > There is really not much need for all of this theory, you > don't know where the fall is, or what land it is on, we do. > Maps are pretty cool things, they tell you where you are and > who owns the land. > We are working on it. > Nuff said. > Michael Farmer > Mike I wasn't referring to you. I'm sure you are dotting your "I's" and crossing your "T's" and have maps, etc. I meant to comment on what Mike G. wrote about land owned by corporations (in private, but I screwed that up...). Cheers, Mark From grf2 at verizon.net Sun Jul 5 21:44:12 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:44:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Solar oxygen isotopes = CAI oxygen isotopes? References: <000001c9fd67$5508d1f0$ff1a75d0$@net> Message-ID: Thanks Chris for this significant piece of information. Jerry Flaherty grf2 at comcast.net -------------------------------------------------- From: "christopher sharp" Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:54 AM To: Subject: [meteorite-list] Solar oxygen isotopes = CAI oxygen isotopes? > Found this interesting: > > http://genesismission.jpl.nasa.gov/gm2/news/features/closer.htm > > from > > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html > > bit of a paradigm shift if confirmed! > > Happy Independence Day USA > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sun Jul 5 22:47:46 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 04:47:46 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall In-Reply-To: References: <671939.20870.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A514716.40403@usgs.gov> <005101c9fdd8$93fd15d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <005801c9fde4$252ce5c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hi Adam, I was just told, that in US a meteorite always gets part of the land :-( Mike G., I'd rather say: Science always first with a preemption to buy or to get all in exchange for a fair compensation. The height of compensation has to be known before of course, else nobody will come for searching (see Denmark). But naturally there has to be a prologue. Hunters/experts or those on whose heads the stone are falling are coming somewhat before first. Cause else no meteorite falls are narrowed down and no meteorites are found. Ownership - landowner - no idea. If 100% of the meteorites shall belong to the landowner, probably that will reduce the number of finds. There are so many models possible. Desert states with now prohibitive laws due to paranoia but not able or willing to finance own expeditions - give them a part of each find for free. 20% for classification, 20% for the state - and they will get quantities they never dreamed of and which they never could find by their own. Controlled by MetSoc. But let the people hunt! Yep makes meteorites 20-25% more expensive for collectors and scientists, but so what, the prices of the rare types have fallen with a factor 10-50 from the early desert times on (solely due private hunting activities), so we will survive. To protect single huge strewnfields or masses - a matter of course, no question. The Argentines were enervated that the Campos were removed - no problem call it a natural monument. But to forbid all export of all meteorites at once is an overreaction. Someone should tell the officials there, that there exist more meteorites than only Campo in Argentina and that there will fall new ones... I'm not sure that they mix it up with something like a dinosaur. And please, a 100g-crumb half-buried in the soil in the middle of nowhere shall not be called a natural monument. One really doesn't need that much fantasy. Something like that what happened in Australia, in Libya, or which they try to enforce in Oman or Algeria is not wise, cause less or almost no meteorites will end in the institutes and at much higher costs. In fact we simply have to get away, finally, finally, from the so often propagated humbug, that science would have to compete with private hunters, dealers, collectors. What shall this be for a competition? If science doesn't search for meteorites, they don't take part in a competition. There is no competition. All interesting finds made by the private side are readily available to scientists too and that at much lower costs, as they would have to find them by their own, in a larger variety than they would find. (and a part of the finds they even get for free --> classification). Is that a competition? A price competition? All meteorites got so cheap like never before in history. The only expensive ones, where the collectors drove up the prices, are these, which aren't available, cause they are kept in museums and universities. - Hellooo, you already got theeeem! Since centuries the private side isn't competing with the official side but supplying the main load of meteorites, they have in their collection and labs and where they are working on. And that from the dawn of meteoritics on. O.k. they can have a competition, but then they have to enter the competition and have to carry out search campaigns. Then we can talk about laws. But as long as they don't do it is silly. To close the deserts...to me it almost seems like a sullen call of a child in the sand-box: If we are not able to find meteorites by our own, you should neither! Nja.. we meteorite collectors won't die, if we won't have meteorites anymore, life will go on without, but what shall a meteorite scientist do without meteorites? Ouch, that was such a trivial posting, that I'm ashamed of. But I refuse to believe - despite we read that issue still so often in articles - that there are still people in that meteorite scene, who are even more stupid than me. Off to bed. Martin Barriere Dreaming to be in Arizona... -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com] Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juli 2009 03:39 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall Well put Martin. :) Private landowner first - if the meteorite falls on private property. (large corporations and governments need not apply) Science next - with the hopes that private landowner will do the right thing and donate some of the fall to science. Hunters next - they do the real work to bring the specimens to light. Collectors and peanut gallery last - our dollars provide the incentive for all of the above (with the exception of science) to care about meteorites. But we don't do the field work or the science. I don't begrudge anyone who is out there in the field working this new Arizona strewnfield - provided that they are doing the right thing for the landowners and science. I envy them and wish I could be there too. Congrats again to Jack and company for working this new fall. Early question - what will this fall be called? What is the nearest geological feature or post office? Early question #2 - any guesses on what the type might be? Best regards and happy hunting, MikeG On 7/5/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > Yes Jeff, > > in a positive sense, cause meteorites are certainly no resources. > And else I can't find meteorites mentioned at all there. > > And if I follow the sentence (according Austrian laws) about the Austrian > part of the Neuschwanstein fall, it offers an interesting aspect, > which might has to be proven first: > > There they decided, that the meteorite (recovered 3 years after the fall) > had NOT became part of the land it was found on. > > Interesting, isn't it? > > Anyway, we can indulge in legal persnicketinesses as long as we want, > clear is, > that we will totally ruin that subbranch of space and Earth science, > the more crude laws come into force or are tried to be overstreched. > > Because if not private people would pick the meteorite up - like they did > the 200 years before to deliver 90% or more of the non-Antarctic finds or > falls, who else should do it? > > With West we heard that one single person from the science side entered the > field. Art Ehlmann. > > Then we have a Suisse team searching Oman and that was it on Earth. > Else sporadically some university teams, who recover always not more than 2 > or 3 stones, almost all old ordinary chondrites of minor scientific value. > > Antarctica is fine, but they can't bring the performance the private people > are doing around the globe (that Antarcica is 100 times more expensive, one > hasn't to mention anymore) and they can't recover fresh falls. > > If we want such a complete breakdown like in Australia, then we should carry > on in inventing more and more restrictions. > > I'm writing from Europe, where half of the observed falls of the decade > wouldn't have been recovered or noticed at all, if not private people would > have cared for > and where the tkws of very most of the other half would have stayed very > tiny, if the private section hadn't added so many. > > It should be one of the most urgent missions of the Meteoritical Society in > London to take care for politics and legislation around the world turning > back to a state of reason and to grant that the very substance of that field > of science won't be lost. > > Until that isn't achieved, hunters, scientists and collectors - come to > Austria. > > Gosh, we're talking about meteorites. The most whack and strangest and > rarest objects on Earth, without any cultural, economical or natural > importance. And of solely scientific interest, where the researchers are > glad and happy that people are going out to look for them. > How anyone with a brain could come to the idea to make a law for meteorites? > > > So - let's handle the case more pragmactically: > Let Schrader, Farmer & Co. save the stones first and the strewnfield data, > before we hang them for the crime to have recovered a new pristine fall for > science and a fall of historical dimensions for the State of Arizona. > > Anybody else here, who feels the absurdity the same way like me? > Martin > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff > Grossman > Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juli 2009 02:37 > An: Meteorite-list > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall > > I am skeptical that this covers meteorites, even if a BLM employee > thinks it does. Very skeptical. > > jeff > > Adam Hupe wrote: >> Dear List, >> >> A question came up about who owns meteorites found on federal land. >> >> Below is a link that can be cut and pasted into a browser that discusses > removal of minerals from federal land. I was told by a BLM officer that 150 > pounds can be removed a year for non-commercial/hobby purposes. The BLM > will issue free non-commercial use permits if requested. I found that they > will even mail them to you free. If you are caught removing minerals > without one, the fines can be as great as $100,000.00 or a year in jail. >> >> If a meteorite weighs more than 150 pounds, it will have to be cut in the > field and the rest recovered during subsequent years or the Smithsonian may > claim it. The BLM can and will come after you if profits from any object > including meteorites are taken from the sale of minerals from federal land. > I was told that eBay is monitored all of time and notes taken. I made some > poor agent spend more than an hour on the phone explaining what is and isn't > acceptable to them to avoid future problems. >> >> The good news is that you can keep the meteorites! >> >> I think Jack,s approach of keeping the press out of this fall is well > thought out. The first thing the press will do is mention there is monetary > value in meteorites and then "Gold Fever" will set in. I have seen people do > strange things and come up with poorly thought out plans when "Gold Fever" > takes hold. People with this affliction are usually the ones that > relentlessly chase the press instead of looking for meteorites themselves. > They will stab fellow hunters in the back and forget all about long-forged > friendships. They are best avoided all-together. >> >> Here is a link that will explain mineral laws in simple English: >> >> > http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE > _PROTECTION_/non-energy_minerals.Par.48557.File.dat/sand.pdf >> >> >> By the way, Congratulations Jack, excellent job all around! >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Adam >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > -- > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From edeckert at triad.rr.com Sun Jul 5 20:49:56 2009 From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (Ed Deckert) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 20:49:56 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall References: <671939.20870.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A514716.40403@usgs.gov> Message-ID: <013a01c9fdd3$b0c691a0$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain> I wondered about that too. But if a meteorite lands in my back yard, or yours, the land owner (me, or you) owns the meteorite. So by that logic, with BLM land belonging to the US government, would not the meteorite technically belong to the government? I'm not a lawyer or any other kind of expert in property matters, but that would seem to cover it very well. I would think that if one abides by the 150 lb per year collecting rule that Adam refers to that collecting this fall would be OK. As far as selling the those specimens is concerned, that's another story. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Grossman" To: "Meteorite-list" Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall >I am skeptical that this covers meteorites, even if a BLM employee thinks >it does. Very skeptical. > > jeff > > Adam Hupe wrote: >> Dear List, >> >> A question came up about who owns meteorites found on federal land. >> >> Below is a link that can be cut and pasted into a browser that discusses >> removal of minerals from federal land. I was told by a BLM officer that >> 150 pounds can be removed a year for non-commercial/hobby purposes. The >> BLM will issue free non-commercial use permits if requested. I found that >> they will even mail them to you free. If you are caught removing >> minerals without one, the fines can be as great as $100,000.00 or a year >> in jail. >> >> If a meteorite weighs more than 150 pounds, it will have to be cut in the >> field and the rest recovered during subsequent years or the Smithsonian >> may claim it. The BLM can and will come after you if profits from any >> object including meteorites are taken from the sale of minerals from >> federal land. I was told that eBay is monitored all of time and notes >> taken. I made some poor agent spend more than an hour on the phone >> explaining what is and isn't acceptable to them to avoid future problems. >> >> The good news is that you can keep the meteorites! >> >> I think Jack,s approach of keeping the press out of this fall is well >> thought out. The first thing the press will do is mention there is >> monetary value in meteorites and then "Gold Fever" will set in. I have >> seen people do strange things and come up with poorly thought out plans >> when "Gold Fever" takes hold. People with this affliction are usually the >> ones that relentlessly chase the press instead of looking for meteorites >> themselves. They will stab fellow hunters in the back and forget all >> about long-forged friendships. They are best avoided all-together. >> Here is a link that will explain mineral laws in simple English: >> >> http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE_PROTECTION_/non-energy_minerals.Par.48557.File.dat/sand.pdf >> >> >> By the way, Congratulations Jack, excellent job all around! >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Adam >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > -- > Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) > Database version: 6.12750 > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: 6.12750 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ From pshugar at clearwire.net Sun Jul 5 22:51:48 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 21:51:48 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Arizona Fall Message-ID: List, It is said that they want to document the fall site, map the strewn field. I have a question. In order to map the strewn field, you need to find the meteorites, right? So, if you thourghly map the strewn field, this means you find all the meteorites. What will be left for others to find??????? NOTHING, as the field will be all worked out. The GPS location will be worth nothing, for there will be nothing to go look for. Pete From cynapse at charter.net Sun Jul 5 23:59:20 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:59:20 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall In-Reply-To: <005801c9fde4$252ce5c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <671939.20870.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A514716.40403@usgs.gov> <005101c9fdd8$93fd15d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <005801c9fde4$252ce5c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <1jt255di3gt2p2kdr0h6emhclfubfrk98u@4ax.com> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 04:47:46 +0200, you wrote: >Hi Adam, > >I was just told, that in US a meteorite always gets part of the land :-( Yep. 40 acres. And a mule. Oh, wait-- I was thinking of something else. From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Sun Jul 5 23:04:10 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 20:04:10 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Arizona Fall In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3EB9F097-2CB6-4487-A524-4F3D355C2F10@comcast.net> There is no such thing as hunted out. Give me a break holbrooks being found 100 years after the fall. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 5, 2009, at 7:51 PM, "Pete Shugar" wrote: > List, > It is said that they want to document the fall site, map the strewn > field. > > I have a question. In order to map the strewn field, you need to > find the > meteorites, right? > So, if you thourghly map the strewn field, this means you find all the > meteorites. > > What will be left for others to find??????? NOTHING, as the field > will be > all worked out. The GPS location will be worth nothing, for there > will be > nothing to go look for. > Pete > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From minador at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 23:13:59 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 20:13:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Arizona Fall Message-ID: <668526.77169.qm@web54407.mail.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > There is no such thing as hunted > out. > Give me a break holbrooks being found 100 years after the > fall. > Michael Farmer > I hope this means that what you guys have seen indicates this is a huge fall! ;-) Woo hoo! Mark From gmhupe at htn.net Sun Jul 5 23:32:07 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 23:32:07 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall References: <24255.35176.qm@web46408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6DF83038BD6043188BCC8095E4E78524@Gregor> Hello Greg C., First thing I would do if I were you would be polite to those who you seek information from! I am sure you remember the saying comparing honey and vinegar... don't feel bad, I hear there are other's who are "frustrated" with the finding team's well-earned 'good luck'!! Greg H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Catterton" To: Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall Im glad you seem to understand where I am coming from, this was not meant as an attack, just my frustration at not being able to join in on what I would consider a great learning experience. When I was told it was being kept secret, I felt pretty upset at the fact that it seemed to be that something of a high scholl clique only type thing. I am newer at this and want to take up as many things like this as I can to better learn and understand things and thought with the gorup out there currently, I could learn alot while contributing in a good manner. I have asked many hunters to tag along on trips, becouse I dont know how to do it and really want to learn. each time I have been told no. I want to learn how to do this right and if none of these guys are willing to help me out or anyone else who wants to learn how to do it right, why should I even stay in this hobby? Greg C. --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Jack Schrader wrote: > From: Jack Schrader > Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:35 PM > > Dear list members. > > I have today received an email from a person. He sent the > message to the list and not to me personally so you already > know who this person is. If he had sent the message to me > personally, I would have treated it with complete > confidentiality. I feel that it is important to share the > information I shared with him with the members of this > list. Most of the people on this list have been involved > with the science of meteorites for many years and have > already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can only come > from years of experience. This list has been very fortunate > to have been joined by people who are new to the science and > to the wonderful hobby of collecting meteorites. His email > was not sent to be malicious but was sent out of frustration > and out of his enthusiastic desire to be able to look for a > new meteorite and to actually find one for himself.. These > people who hold this intense enthusiasm are the people we > need in this science, this > hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to venture out, > find and be the first one to touch a stone that acually fell > to earth from space. I have copied the information I sent > to him below. I hope others who are experiencing similar > feelings of frustration at the present time will benefit > from this as well. > > > Hello. This fall is a very rare, a very important and > historic fall for this state and for the University of > Arizona in particular as the site is very literally in their > own back yard. It is vitally important that the area be > protected for only as long as it takes to properly record > and document the fall. I have seen what happens to an area > when the location is announced publicly too early. The > area is almost immediately deluged and over run with not > only the true professional meteorite hunters who are > actually trying to do something good and recover the stones > properly with GPS coordinates and photographic evidence of > the stones in situ but with every treasure seeker and rock > hunter and curiosity seeker who could care less about the > science but more about simply having something cool to show > off to their friends. This is okay too and there is > absolutely nothing wrong with this but right now is not the > time for this. This area is presently > pristine and kin to a very delicate archaeological site. > The archaeologists need to do the proper work in the area > before the "pot > hunters" find it and destroy any information that could > otherwise be learned from the site. My intention is > certainly not simply just for the money or the stones that > can be recovered. When you really give this some thought, > you will realize that I did not have to tell a single soul > about this. I discovered this remote area entirely on my > own using the knowledge that I have gained over many years > of hunting meteorites. I could have very easily kept this > site to myself and hunted it for months and months. But > the path I chose was simply to do the right thing. I made > a proper announcement and I have begun preparations for > conducting a proper search and recording of the fall site. > Please do not worry. You will get your opportunity to hunt > the area. There will be stones in this area to be > recovered for years to come and you will find yours. And > they will be free, you will not have to buy anything. The > area as any area where meteorite have > fallen either in recent or in ancient times is impossible > to > hunt out completely. I am just simply asking for a little > time that it takes to be able to properly record this fall > site so the information may be available to the University > of Arizona and to any other institutions and meteoriticists > in the world who may have an interest in the work that we > will be doing. It is too important to risk destroying the > information at this point not only for the science that can > be gained from the area but for the generations to come who > may have an interest in learning more about the dynamics of > meteors and the variety of strewn field types that they > create. I do appreciate your understanding. My very best > wishes, Dr. Jack Schrader > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 23:49:10 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 20:49:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall - detailed... Message-ID: <208937.61663.qm@web46404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I will break this down some... > Greg, you seem to have a good heart, but you are coming off as very nasty.> Thanks, I do have a good heart, and I dont want to come off as nasty - its hard to get your points across how you want them to be on the internet. > We make a living at this, now you are selling meteorites and gloating and throwing sand in the eyes of the "big dealers" on prices. Do you think this will help your chances?> I sell meteorites only to help to pay for my collection. When dealers sell stuff like ordinary chondrites for $100 per gram, unless you are rich, you all but have to sell if you want samples of the new falls. I know what I pay for Lunar, and when I see others charging what they do, it makes me wonder - I am just lucky to get it for what I do or do the dealers really want to make that much off the collectors? I do not want to throw sand or gloat, but I do speak what I think. It may not always come off like I want it to, but I wont hold my tounge when I have something to say. As far as my chances, I had nasty emails over what I was selling lunar for, have been turned down many many times when I have asked for help and ideas, I dont think my chances from the well known group like you are in were good to begin with - as you said, why help out the competion? >I am really not interested in training my competition, so I am not too keen to take people with me. This is not meant to be mean, but common sense.> Did Bob Haag not help you out? From what I have read and understand, he did alot. Correct me if I am wrong. I am far from competition to you, nor would I ever really want to be. As I said, I only sell to help pay for my personal collection - So I sell a few things from time to time... look at my ebay record, then look at yours. Its a struggle for me to come up with enough material to get a power seller status to get a discount for fees! I have really been into the meteorite hobby for 3 years, how long have you been into it? If you consider me copetition, I take that as an impressive compliment! I was not able to make it to west, my wife was in her last weeks of Nursing school (she passed and is now an official RN!!) and I now have more time to put into meteorites. I knew you were kind enough to help a few then, I did not understand why not now. I am eager to learn from the guys like you who for better or worse are well known and who I thought would be great menotrs of sorts... When I am constantly turned down while seeking to better myself and my knowlege on meteorites, it is frusterating as many claim to be in it for the benifit of science and learning - yet are unwilling to really help someone who wants to learn how to do it right. I can read books all day long (which I do) but when it comes to in the field learning and hands on, books dont do it. so, to rap up this book, I am sorry if I have offended anyone, it was not my intent. I just think that some of the people out there should remember when they were new at this and how much they wanted to learn and take part in things and consider that when someone asks to help out. I would have been happy just being there and learning about the aspects of the hunt and documentaion - even if I came back empty handed, the trip would have been worth it to me from the experience I would have gained from it. Instead, I am now a collector who is really considering walking away from meteorites due to what I feel is an exclusive group who is unwilling to allow someone like me who honestly wants to learn from you all to take part. Yes, I can do it on my own, but I would rather learn from people who know what they are doing and learn how to do it right instead of blindly stumbling along before I get it right. Hope everyone is good and had a safe 4th of July. Greg C. --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Greg Catterton" > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 10:30 PM > > Greg, you seem to have a good heart, but you are coming off > as very nasty. > Just go hunt, I learned on my own, most people learn by > doing. My first real fall was Monahans, then months later > Portales, I learned on the spot, alone, it was every man for > himself. > We make a living at this, now you are selling meteorites > and gloating and throwing sand in the eyes of the "big > dealers" on prices. Do you think this will help your > chances? Come on, I spent ~$50,000 a year on hunts, and let > me tell you, I must recoup this in sales, or I will be > living in a cardboard box. Your emails harping on overpriced > dealers are not falling on deaf ears. Go ahead, do a hunt > yourself, see what the costs are for stones found, and you > would find that most in West lost money, even those who > found stones! > Get over it, take a chance, do it. I am really not > interested in training my competition, so I am not too keen > to take people with me. This is not meant to be mean, but > common sense. > Michael Farmer > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Greg Catterton > wrote: > > > From: Greg Catterton > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the > Arizona Fall > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 8:25 PM > > > > Im glad you seem to understand where I am coming from, > this > > was not meant as an attack, just my frustration at not > being > > able to join in on what I would consider a great > learning > > experience. > > When I was told it was being kept secret, I felt > pretty > > upset at the fact that it seemed to be that something > of a > > high scholl clique only type thing. > > I am newer at this and want to take up as many things > like > > this as I can to better learn and understand things > and > > thought with the gorup out there currently, I could > learn > > alot while contributing in a good manner. > > > > I have asked many hunters to tag along on trips, > becouse I > > dont know how to do it and really want to learn. each > time I > > have been told no. > > > > I want to learn how to do this right and if none of > these > > guys are willing to help me out or anyone else who > wants to > > learn how to do it right, why should I even stay in > this > > hobby? > > > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Jack Schrader > > wrote: > > > > > From: Jack Schrader > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the > Arizona > > Fall > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:35 PM > > > > > > Dear list members. > > > > > > I have today received an email from a person.? > He > > sent the > > > message to the list and not to me personally so > you > > already > > > know who this person is.? If he had sent the > message > > to me > > > personally, I would have treated it with > complete > > > confidentiality.? I feel that it is important > to > > share the > > > information I shared with him with the members > of > > this > > > list.? Most of the people on this list have > been > > involved > > > with the science of meteorites for many years > and > > have > > > already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can > only > > come > > > from years of experience. This list has been > very > > fortunate > > > to have been joined by people who are new to the > > science and > > > to the wonderful hobby of collecting > meteorites.? His > > email > > > was not sent to be malicious but was sent out of > > frustration > > > and out of his enthusiastic desire to be able to > look > > for a > > > new meteorite and to actually find one for > himself..? > > These > > > people who hold this intense enthusiasm are the > people > > we > > > need in this science, this > > >? hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to > > venture out, > > > find and be the first one to touch a stone that > > acually fell > > > to earth from space.? I have copied the > information I > > sent > > > to him below.? I hope others who are > experiencing > > similar > > > feelings of frustration at the present time will > > benefit > > > from this as well. > > > > > > > > > Hello.? This fall is a very rare, a very > important > > and > > > historic fall for this state and for the > University > > of > > > Arizona in particular as the site is very > literally in > > their > > > own back yard.? It is vitally important that the > area > > be > > > protected for only as long as it takes to > properly > > record > > > and document the fall.? I have seen what happens > to > > an area > > > when?the location?is announced publicly too > early.? > > The > > > area is almost immediately deluged and over run > with > > not > > > only the true professional meteorite hunters who > are > > > actually trying to do something good and recover > the > > stones > > > properly with GPS coordinates and photographic > > evidence of > > > the stones in situ but with every treasure seeker > and > > rock > > > hunter and curiosity seeker who could care less > about > > the > > > science but more about simply having something > cool to > > show > > > off to their friends.? This is okay too and > there is > > > absolutely nothing wrong with this but right now > is > > not the > > > time for this.? This area is presently > > >? pristine and kin to a very delicate > > archaeological site.? > > > The archaeologists need to do the proper work in > the > > area > > > before the "pot > > > hunters" find it and destroy any information > that > > could > > > otherwise be learned from the site.? My > intention is > > > certainly not simply just for the money or the > stones > > that > > > can be recovered.? When you really give this > some > > thought, > > > you will realize that I did not have to tell a > single > > soul > > > about this.? I discovered this remote area > entirely > > on my > > > own using the knowledge that I have gained over > many > > years > > > of hunting meteorites. I could have very easily > kept > > this > > > site to myself and hunted it for months and > months.? > > But > > > the path I chose was simply to do the right > thing.? I > > made > > > a proper announcement and I have begun > preparations > > for > > > conducting a proper search and recording of the > fall > > site.? > > > Please do not worry.? You will get your > opportunity > > to hunt > > > the area.? There will be stones in this area to > be > > > recovered for years to come and you will find > yours.? > > And > > > they will be free, you will not have to buy > > anything.? The > > > area as any area where meteorite have > > >? fallen either in recent or in ancient times is > > impossible > > > to > > > hunt out completely.? I am just simply asking > for a > > little > > > time that it takes to be able to properly record > this > > fall > > > site so the information may be available to the > > University > > > of Arizona and to any other institutions and > > meteoriticists > > > in the world who may have an interest in the work > that > > we > > > will be doing.? It is too important to risk > > destroying the > > > information at this point not only for the > science > > that can > > > be gained from the area but for the generations > to > > come who > > > may have an interest in learning more about the > > dynamics of > > > meteors and the variety of strewn field types > that > > they > > > create.? I do appreciate your understanding.? > My > > very best > > > wishes, Dr. Jack Schrader > > > > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Mon Jul 6 00:05:03 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 00:05:03 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 6, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_6_2009.html __________________________ **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377077x1201454398/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) From majbaermann at web.de Mon Jul 6 02:58:11 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 08:58:11 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Solar oxygen isotopes = CAI oxygen isotopes? References: <000001c9fd67$5508d1f0$ff1a75d0$@net> Message-ID: <59911AECD4AC4A70AEEEDF18BBEACDF9@thinkcentre> Yes I agree, thank you for this utmost interesting link, nearly vanishing in all the noise of the Arizona battle. Matthias B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Flaherty" To: "christopher sharp" ; Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 3:44 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Solar oxygen isotopes = CAI oxygen isotopes? > Thanks Chris for this significant piece of information. > Jerry Flaherty grf2 at comcast.net > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "christopher sharp" > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 7:54 AM > To: > Subject: [meteorite-list] Solar oxygen isotopes = CAI oxygen isotopes? > >> Found this interesting: >> >> http://genesismission.jpl.nasa.gov/gm2/news/features/closer.htm >> >> from >> >> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html >> >> bit of a paradigm shift if confirmed! >> >> Happy Independence Day USA >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From damoclid at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 05:45:07 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 02:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunting in one's own "backyard"? Message-ID: <671859.26047.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> As a relative newbie to this field, I've been pouring through books, websites and videos on youtube learning more about meteorites and meteorite hunting. There appears to be good information out there for the beginning hunter to get started. It seems that the falls get the attention and I understand the attraction of finding fresh material immediately after a fall. However it strikes me that just about anyone can hunt practically in their backyard and have the search area all to themselves. In Richard Norton's _Rocks from Space_ in the chapter on meteorite hunting, page 315 under "The Farm Belt" he wrote "It has been more than 50 years since Harvey Nininger successfully search the farms of the midwest for meteorites. It's time to retrace his footsteps and try again. ... Farmlands in Michigan Illinois, Ohio, Iowa, and Indiana were barely touched by Nininger's search." I'm curious if anyone has made a concerted effort to repeat his searches, both where he worked and in other areas? In the same book, it is mentioned that early on Nininger simply asked for permission to search through the rock piles that accumulate on just about every farm. It would seem to me that there are many, many farms in just about every state that could hold a cache of meteorites that are simply weathering away because no one has taken the time to look for and recover them. Maybe this type of hunting is not as sexy as hunting for fragments that brand new fall with their sleek fusion crust, but then again, one wouldn't have to travel across the country or around the world just to start searching and then be in a race to find fragments and individuals before a competitor does. I may be missing something here but I'd be interested in hearing how many hunters actually do this, if any, and how often they turn up a new meteorite. Thanks -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 6 08:28:33 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 05:28:33 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall Message-ID: Nice try MikeG. It's a secret! :D Carl MikeG wrote: >Early question - what will this fall be called? What is the nearest geological feature or post office? _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 12:18:57 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 12:18:57 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone have info on these? (or specimens?) Message-ID: Hi List and Hammer Fans, (MC Hammer fans please skip this post - this is about Hammer Meteorites, not rappers) While reading through Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites last night, I ran across some entries that describe possible hammer falls. I was wondering if someone here on the List might have more information about them, or possibly a specimen (or photo). Mbale - everyone knows it's a hammer because it struck many buildings. But, the entry in the Catalogue of Mets states - "...The stones hit several buildings, but nobody was hurt, although a young boy was apparently hit on the head..." It then goes on to say that an expedition by the Dutch Meteor Society investigated the fall and documented 48 impact locations. Did they (or anyone) investigate the claim of the boy being hit on the head? Since everyone refers to Sylacauga as the only meteorite documented to strike a human being in modern times, then I am I right to assume that the Mbale boy was debunked or never proven? ... Mhow (yes, I was reading through the M's!) - Mhow is an obscure L6 fall from India. On Feb 16, 1827 at 15:00 hrs local time, 4 or 5 stones fell and that one struck a tree and another wounded a man. This was an L6 chondrite. Was this claim ever investigated at any time? ... Neagari - Feb 18, 1995 Japanese fall, L6 chondrite. The Catalogue of Mets states : "...The next morning, in the city of Neagari, Mr. K. Sasatani found a hole in the boot of his car and meteorite fragments were on and inside the boot." For those of us West of the Big Pond, a car boot is a car trunk. ;) I guess it doesn't matter if this claim was substantiated or not because the finder owns the entire main mass and only a small type specimen exists at the Tokyo Museum. So this one is unattainable - unless someone wants to offer Mr. Sasatani some sake and loosen him up to an offer. ;) ... I'm sure I'll run across more of these as I make my way through the Catalogue. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From astroroks at hotmail.com Mon Jul 6 12:33:57 2009 From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:33:57 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Collecting on Federal Lands. Message-ID: Good Morning All.... I see lots of questions about your rights on Federal Lands. These rights are spelled out in "Code of Federal Regulations". The section that is purtenate to the question is in "Title 43, Part 8360, Subpart 8365. It states your right to collect rocks and minerals, as long as it is a reasonable amount, not vertibrate fossels and not for commercial use. I have a copy in my vehicle and fanny pack just in case I run into a BLM agent who is not familiar with my rights. It keeps them off your back and out of your vehicle. They are really busy right now trying to enforce the "Antiquities Act" (Pothunters). Happy Hunting! Dennis Miller _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 From astroroks at hotmail.com Mon Jul 6 12:48:02 2009 From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:48:02 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Federal Land Usage... Message-ID: Hi Again! Boy, do I have a RED face. After reading my post I saw numerous spelling errors. It was quickly written without the use of spell-check. Sorry... But you get the gest. Now back to my coffee.. Dennis _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 13:10:20 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:10:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone have info on these? (or specimens?) Message-ID: <782958.23052.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> > Neagari - Feb 18, 1995 Japanese fall, L6 chondrite.? > The Catalogue of Mets states : "...The next morning, in the city of Neagari, Mr. K. Sasatani found a hole in the boot of his car and meteorite fragments were on and inside the boot." Yes the claim was substantiated and an interesting thing about this car hit was that the stone was apparently spinning as it left a pin-wheel pattern in the scraped paint. At one time there were photos on the web. I believe he found the main mass lying in the street and it matched it to the the indentation in the "boot". Yes there was a puncture. Elton From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 13:40:56 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:40:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! Message-ID: <599339.61653.qm@web110615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Alright you aspiring meteorite hunters on the east coast, a large fireball with explosions that shook houses in PA was reported at 1:10 am this morning! If there are explosions, it is close and can be found. No excuses, as some of us are busy in Arizona. Michael Farmer http://www.wgal.com/news/19966650/detail.html From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Mon Jul 6 13:39:06 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 18:39:06 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] China meteorites? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090706183906.QZB1O.124524.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi All, Good luck to all those hunting the new Arizona fall...exciting stuff! Just off (wednesday) for a tour of China ending up at the total eclipse in Shanghai on the the 22nd. Communication after wed may be difficult! Just wondered if anyone on the list had any knowledge of meteorite related places to visit/museums/dealers in China, around Beijing, Xian, Wuhan, Guilin, Hangzhou, or Shanghai? Would be grateful for any advice. Cheers, Graham Ensor, Nr Barwell, UK. From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon Jul 6 13:50:54 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 19:50:54 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Old men say to Greg C. was Arizona Fall - detailed... In-Reply-To: <208937.61663.qm@web46404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <208937.61663.qm@web46404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005501c9fe62$51ced790$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hi Greg C. >I know what I pay for Lunar, and when I see others charging what they do, >it makes me wonder - I am just lucky to get it for what I do or do the >dealers really want to make that much off the collectors? >I do not want to throw sand or gloat, but I do speak what I think. Ya Greg, but you have to think before and to think a little bit further. Because I think, you disregard important parameters in your calculation. Seems that you're thinking - buying price minus selling price = profit. Which is somewhat short-sighted. Let's start with the most simple to understand: I don't know, are you paying taxes for your sales? Each "big" or professional dealer, who does his living with meteorites, has to do so. Don't know, I read somewhere, that the average tax&dues quota in USA would be smth around 30%. Plus here and there federal sales taxes. There are other countries, where the quota exceeds 50%. And maybe those professional dealers want to have a health insurance or even a pension plan like anybody in other professions has too? So the next point, perhaps not so easy to understand yet for you. A big dealer has to bring up permanently new material of rare types and new meteorites, the hunter in the field has to find permanently better stuff than the 90% ordinary chondrites, which are lying around, a fall chaser has to find pieces of the few falls per year at all, if they want to make a living from meteorites. So they have to work completely differently than you, who orders a few stones per year of already known (and in most cases known, because the hunters/dealers had them classified before) material from your armchair. And there we have a problem, Greg. Meteorites are by far the rarest stuff on Earth. A ruby, a world-class diamond, a dinosaur - no problem, a dealer can simply reorder, if he's running out - but with a new Lunar, a new Martian, ya even with a new eucrite - he can't. The professional hunters have to travel and to graze the fields week for week, hoping to find something better than an ordinary chondrite - look into the bulletins, how few achondrites were found in the US-deserts, how small the weight of all achondrites is, collected through more than 30 years in Antarctica, where the stones are especially easy to identify, or from that huge half of the continent covered by Sahara in the last 20 years. 100kgs of eucrites only from NWA, to give you a hint. And a fall hunter has to try his luck with the 7 or 10 falls per year. Ask the regular and best desert hunters in USA - we figured it already out on the list in former times, what for average find rates per hour they have, - the result is, that if they would like to live from their finds, it would be more rewarding and easier for them to tie around an apron and to get employed at a fast food instead. And the NWA-dealers - they have to travel to Morocco and have to try to identify new exiting stones. If the possible lunar turns later out to be an eucrite only or a terrestrial - bad luck, the money at stack is lost. That they have to compensate too. Other simply costs. You experienced it with your piece of the lunar - from your postings to the list, we heard that you got so insecure about the provenance or you weren't aware, that this material was already classified, that you almost - if not the nice members of the list, yes also big dealers, informed you, that it wouldn't be necessary - hence that you almost had reclassified that stuff at Ted Bunch again. That would have meant, that you'd have to give away 20% of your lunar for free, which again would have reduced your profit. You took advantage - as it is often with assumed pairings too - that others took the costs for classification. Yes it is true - the dealers do let classify their stones and if it's something so rare like a planetary, they do have to donate material of a retail value of 20 or 30k$. - and anyway most of the big dealers donate a lot more material of their finds than only the type & deposit specimens. Well more costs: You see the hunters in the deserts, the fall chasers, the NWA dealers, they all travel many months, half a year or more per year to get new finds for the collectors and researchers. That costs. We just read from Michael Farmer, that he has travel expenses per year of 50k$. That sum he has to earn! But just google around, what it would cost you, to buy a plane ticket to NWA wonderland, to rent a car, to spend several weeks there - and how many UNWAs or HEDs you would have to sell, to get only your travel costs back. And try to find there a new lunar or Martian - the odds you can figure out from the Bulletin database. Other costs. Transaction costs like paypal, ebay fees ect. you know by your own, But a dealer has to run a business, with all the costs for bureau, bookkeeping, advertising, machines, preparation costs and and and, Costs which an amateur seller doesn't has or not to that extend. Take only the iron preparators, how long does it take to completely slice down a 2kg Muonionalusta or a Campo, how long does it take to grind and to polish a hand sized slice to that perfect state and on both sides please, which allows an etching of that quality, which each collector does expect? How long does it take to stabilize and to preserve each slice at the state of art after etching? Have you an idea, how much such a slice would cost then, if you only would have to pay the minimum wage for the working hours and the machines and preparation material costs? That stuff is so cheap, cause the preparators are doing it by their selves. Think to the cut and polishing loss. You see how crumbly your Lunar is. What for a cut loss you'd have, if you would cut slices and expertly polish them as it is standard among the collectors. Stones and irons 20-30%... Reduces again your profit. And look what else they're doing - that basical work of growing and instructing new collectors, customer service, they organize exhibitions or give their best pieces on loan to exhibitions for free (where each art collector would get a fine sum), they are writing books, giving lessons, go into schools, they spread knowledge in the newspapers and on TV, All that basic work. O.k. - that all are doing many collectors too - but did you so too? Or they bring you the stones to the shows. I'm not so sure, whether your revenue from the piece of lunar at the end would be sufficient to pay 2 weeks as an exhibitor in Tucson or to have a stall at the Munich or Tokyo show. And see what they're nevertheless doing, the so greedy big dealers, they tinker even from their most exciting finds small servings, that each and every collector now matter how limited their budgets are, can participate. You see what Farmer, the Hupes, we are doing - seen only the efforts and costs all these Micros 1g, 2g pieces, these 2-50$ polished slices are in fact a loss for them or at best not profitable. But they offer them additionally for everybody being able to enjoy that hobby. Well and at the end - they do this all often alone as one-man-shows. Hence keeping that all in mind, you'll recognize that it was somewhat easy for you to start acting as big Robin Hood and to play the Hero. (In fact a professional dealer, if he would buy at your purchase price and would resell at your selling price, would earn a lot less than you). Cause seen these conditions, it's anyway astonishing, that professional dealers are all in all not more expensive than hobby-sellers or not so seldom even cheaper. And anyway I can't understand your anger. Would you scream blue murder in a mechanics forum too, cause in some cases you would be able to fix your car by your own? Would you suspect the members of a baker's mailing-list to be extortioners, cause if necessary you would be able to make a bread by yourself? See. If it's accepted as absolutely normal that such professions are paid for their services, wouldn't it be a matter of course, that meteorite dealers would be paid in a fair manner too to appreciate their performance? A profession btw, which I suspect to be more difficult than others, cause if it would be so easy as you think it is, I guess we would have in each major town and in each second mall a specialized meteorite shop... Well and you're experienced it now by your own, that it's not that easy with selling meteorites, in getting frustrated, that noone seemed to have directly been waiting for buying that lunar at 1000$/g from you. (O.k. collector-sized slices - slices and not fragments were here and there offered at 1250$/g too, hence seen the cut loss your offer wasn't that sensational - and in general you had bad luck, cause you hadn't checked the archives before, where a Moroccan had offered that lunar in big chunks at 500$/g to the list). But in general also the sale of meteorites has a lot to do with courtesy, mutual respect and trust, likewise the whole meteorite community is shaped and ruled by these values. That after your behaviour here on the list, the dealers and experienced colletors weren't be eager to share their experiences and knowledge with you, isn't surprising, because there are friendlier people and newcomers to deal with. And that the meteorite scene isn't that evil as you might have thought, you just experienced today, where several of those, who you suspected before to be dishonest, even took the time to answer you and others already offered you assistance in learning how to hunt for meteorites. I don't know, it is a banality that a correct behaviour and a certain courtesy is the fundament for a friendly cooperation and relationship. With your rantings you hadn't made yourself directly friends, neither such things are well and truly (and note, that we never made an issue out of it). http://kuerzer.de/Cattplag vs http://kuerzer.de/ChladOrg But now, I'm sure, you'll make it better. Why I'm writing that all to the list, where I guess most know that all, and not to you privately... Because I have uncomfortable feelings. Perhaps it's only because I'm starting to get senile. But among the youngest generation of collectors of the last 1-3 years, at least to me it seems so, there are many so aggressive. So many angry young men. Not only in USA, everywhere else too. And I don't know why. They rage against the system, where there is no system. Everywhere they smell a conspiracy. (The dealers conspiracy, the hunters conspiracy, the ebay-seller conspiracy, the veteran collectors conspiracy, the Moroccan conspiracy, the scientist conspiracy, the IMCA-conspiracy....). And I don't understand, why they then collect meteorites at all, if it makes them so angry? Most of the collectors want to have in their meteorites an equilibrium to their hard daily routine. Meteorites are a source of joy for them. Nourishment for their curiosity, for their aesthetical sensation, occasion for occupying with the universe, with history, with science or also very concrete to work on them in cutting, preparing or even to go for a hunt out in nature.. ...the reasons for them to collect are manifold. But if the only joy I get from meteorites should be the satisfaction to have bought a stone cheaper than my fellow-collector, to make some bucks in selling stones, to find a valve to let out my aggressions in ranting about each and everybody and to listen to and to spread nasty gossip, then I would say, that for these purposes, meteorites aren't directly necessary. That kind of occupation one can have in any other field too and easier I guess too. Huh, back to the new fall. History is fine. Greg, perhaps, if you find a little time, you could search a little bit on internet about the history of Gold Basin and the unforgotten Jim Kriegh. Than you will see, that that, what happens now with the new fall is nothing to bristle about or to be worried. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Catterton Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juli 2009 05:49 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall - detailed... I will break this down some... > Greg, you seem to have a good heart, but you are coming off as very nasty.> Thanks, I do have a good heart, and I dont want to come off as nasty - its hard to get your points across how you want them to be on the internet. > We make a living at this, now you are selling meteorites and gloating and throwing sand in the eyes of the "big dealers" on prices. Do you think this will help your chances?> I sell meteorites only to help to pay for my collection. When dealers sell stuff like ordinary chondrites for $100 per gram, unless you are rich, you all but have to sell if you want samples of the new falls. I know what I pay for Lunar, and when I see others charging what they do, it makes me wonder - I am just lucky to get it for what I do or do the dealers really want to make that much off the collectors? I do not want to throw sand or gloat, but I do speak what I think. It may not always come off like I want it to, but I wont hold my tounge when I have something to say. As far as my chances, I had nasty emails over what I was selling lunar for, have been turned down many many times when I have asked for help and ideas, I dont think my chances from the well known group like you are in were good to begin with - as you said, why help out the competion? >I am really not interested in training my competition, so I am not too keen to take people with me. This is not meant to be mean, but common sense.> Did Bob Haag not help you out? From what I have read and understand, he did alot. Correct me if I am wrong. I am far from competition to you, nor would I ever really want to be. As I said, I only sell to help pay for my personal collection - So I sell a few things from time to time... look at my ebay record, then look at yours. Its a struggle for me to come up with enough material to get a power seller status to get a discount for fees! I have really been into the meteorite hobby for 3 years, how long have you been into it? If you consider me copetition, I take that as an impressive compliment! I was not able to make it to west, my wife was in her last weeks of Nursing school (she passed and is now an official RN!!) and I now have more time to put into meteorites. I knew you were kind enough to help a few then, I did not understand why not now. I am eager to learn from the guys like you who for better or worse are well known and who I thought would be great menotrs of sorts... When I am constantly turned down while seeking to better myself and my knowlege on meteorites, it is frusterating as many claim to be in it for the benifit of science and learning - yet are unwilling to really help someone who wants to learn how to do it right. I can read books all day long (which I do) but when it comes to in the field learning and hands on, books dont do it. so, to rap up this book, I am sorry if I have offended anyone, it was not my intent. I just think that some of the people out there should remember when they were new at this and how much they wanted to learn and take part in things and consider that when someone asks to help out. I would have been happy just being there and learning about the aspects of the hunt and documentaion - even if I came back empty handed, the trip would have been worth it to me from the experience I would have gained from it. Instead, I am now a collector who is really considering walking away from meteorites due to what I feel is an exclusive group who is unwilling to allow someone like me who honestly wants to learn from you all to take part. Yes, I can do it on my own, but I would rather learn from people who know what they are doing and learn how to do it right instead of blindly stumbling along before I get it right. Hope everyone is good and had a safe 4th of July. Greg C. --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Greg Catterton" > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 10:30 PM > > Greg, you seem to have a good heart, but you are coming off > as very nasty. > Just go hunt, I learned on my own, most people learn by > doing. My first real fall was Monahans, then months later > Portales, I learned on the spot, alone, it was every man for > himself. > We make a living at this, now you are selling meteorites > and gloating and throwing sand in the eyes of the "big > dealers" on prices. Do you think this will help your > chances? Come on, I spent ~$50,000 a year on hunts, and let > me tell you, I must recoup this in sales, or I will be > living in a cardboard box. Your emails harping on overpriced > dealers are not falling on deaf ears. Go ahead, do a hunt > yourself, see what the costs are for stones found, and you > would find that most in West lost money, even those who > found stones! > Get over it, take a chance, do it. I am really not > interested in training my competition, so I am not too keen > to take people with me. This is not meant to be mean, but > common sense. > Michael Farmer > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Greg Catterton > wrote: > > > From: Greg Catterton > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the > Arizona Fall > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 8:25 PM > > > > Im glad you seem to understand where I am coming from, > this > > was not meant as an attack, just my frustration at not > being > > able to join in on what I would consider a great > learning > > experience. > > When I was told it was being kept secret, I felt > pretty > > upset at the fact that it seemed to be that something > of a > > high scholl clique only type thing. > > I am newer at this and want to take up as many things > like > > this as I can to better learn and understand things > and > > thought with the gorup out there currently, I could > learn > > alot while contributing in a good manner. > > > > I have asked many hunters to tag along on trips, > becouse I > > dont know how to do it and really want to learn. each > time I > > have been told no. > > > > I want to learn how to do this right and if none of > these > > guys are willing to help me out or anyone else who > wants to > > learn how to do it right, why should I even stay in > this > > hobby? > > > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Jack Schrader > > wrote: > > > > > From: Jack Schrader > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the > Arizona > > Fall > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:35 PM > > > > > > Dear list members. > > > > > > I have today received an email from a person.? > He > > sent the > > > message to the list and not to me personally so > you > > already > > > know who this person is.? If he had sent the > message > > to me > > > personally, I would have treated it with > complete > > > confidentiality.? I feel that it is important > to > > share the > > > information I shared with him with the members > of > > this > > > list.? Most of the people on this list have > been > > involved > > > with the science of meteorites for many years > and > > have > > > already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can > only > > come > > > from years of experience. This list has been > very > > fortunate > > > to have been joined by people who are new to the > > science and > > > to the wonderful hobby of collecting > meteorites.? His > > email > > > was not sent to be malicious but was sent out of > > frustration > > > and out of his enthusiastic desire to be able to > look > > for a > > > new meteorite and to actually find one for > himself..? > > These > > > people who hold this intense enthusiasm are the > people > > we > > > need in this science, this > > >? hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to > > venture out, > > > find and be the first one to touch a stone that > > acually fell > > > to earth from space.? I have copied the > information I > > sent > > > to him below.? I hope others who are > experiencing > > similar > > > feelings of frustration at the present time will > > benefit > > > from this as well. > > > > > > > > > Hello.? This fall is a very rare, a very > important > > and > > > historic fall for this state and for the > University > > of > > > Arizona in particular as the site is very > literally in > > their > > > own back yard.? It is vitally important that the > area > > be > > > protected for only as long as it takes to > properly > > record > > > and document the fall.? I have seen what happens > to > > an area > > > when?the location?is announced publicly too > early.? > > The > > > area is almost immediately deluged and over run > with > > not > > > only the true professional meteorite hunters who > are > > > actually trying to do something good and recover > the > > stones > > > properly with GPS coordinates and photographic > > evidence of > > > the stones in situ but with every treasure seeker > and > > rock > > > hunter and curiosity seeker who could care less > about > > the > > > science but more about simply having something > cool to > > show > > > off to their friends.? This is okay too and > there is > > > absolutely nothing wrong with this but right now > is > > not the > > > time for this.? This area is presently > > >? pristine and kin to a very delicate > > archaeological site.? > > > The archaeologists need to do the proper work in > the > > area > > > before the "pot > > > hunters" find it and destroy any information > that > > could > > > otherwise be learned from the site.? My > intention is > > > certainly not simply just for the money or the > stones > > that > > > can be recovered.? When you really give this > some > > thought, > > > you will realize that I did not have to tell a > single > > soul > > > about this.? I discovered this remote area > entirely > > on my > > > own using the knowledge that I have gained over > many > > years > > > of hunting meteorites. I could have very easily > kept > > this > > > site to myself and hunted it for months and > months.? > > But > > > the path I chose was simply to do the right > thing.? I > > made > > > a proper announcement and I have begun > preparations > > for > > > conducting a proper search and recording of the > fall > > site.? > > > Please do not worry.? You will get your > opportunity > > to hunt > > > the area.? There will be stones in this area to > be > > > recovered for years to come and you will find > yours.? > > And > > > they will be free, you will not have to buy > > anything.? The > > > area as any area where meteorite have > > >? fallen either in recent or in ancient times is > > impossible > > > to > > > hunt out completely.? I am just simply asking > for a > > little > > > time that it takes to be able to properly record > this > > fall > > > site so the information may be available to the > > University > > > of Arizona and to any other institutions and > > meteoriticists > > > in the world who may have an interest in the work > that > > we > > > will be doing.? It is too important to risk > > destroying the > > > information at this point not only for the > science > > that can > > > be gained from the area but for the generations > to > > come who > > > may have an interest in learning more about the > > dynamics of > > > meteors and the variety of strewn field types > that > > they > > > create.? I do appreciate your understanding.? > My > > very best > > > wishes, Dr. Jack Schrader > > > > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jul 6 15:39:40 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:39:40 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! In-Reply-To: <599339.61653.qm@web110615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <599339.61653.qm@web110615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3kk4551cj9s79at0jo49d7bhugsi5qv4re@4ax.com> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:40:56 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >Alright you aspiring meteorite hunters on the east coast, a large fireball with explosions that shook houses in PA was reported at 1:10 am this morning! If there are explosions, it is close and can be found. >No excuses, as some of us are busy in Arizona. >Michael Farmer > >http://www.wgal.com/news/19966650/detail.html More: http://weblogs.marylandweather.com/2009/07/a_masondixon_meteor.html A Mason-Dixon meteor? We have been receiving reports today of a likely meteor over north-central Maryland and southern Pennsylvania early Monday morning. (Not the one in the Flickr.com image above.) Below are the first reports we have received. If you heard or saw something similar, around the same time, please leave a comment. Include the time, your location, which direction you saw the object or flash, a description of what you saw, and note any boom or other sound you heard, as well as the time lapse between flash and boom. The York Dispatch: In York County, Pa., police officers from Penn Township, Southwestern Regional and Newberry Township reported seeing a flash and hearing a boom around 1:15 a.m. Monday, July 6, according to local 911 centers. Officials in Harford County, Md. also reported seeing a flash and hearing a boom near the Mason-Dixon Line. Capital Gazette: An Annapolis city police officer reported that she and her partner both saw what she described as a "bright blue light in the sky" just after midnight. It was followed by "a light with a tail, falling from the sky," according to our informant. Annapolis police reported hearing a similar report on Baltimore County police radio. Gary Moon, reporting to The Sun's News Tips: "I heard and felt a deep earth blast similar to an earthquake, which shook my home in Glen Rock, Pa., early Monday morning. I thought I would hear MUCH more about this one ... nothing." Deborah Markow, Havre de Grace: "Last night, couldn't sleep, went out on back deck, laid on lounge, eyes closed and then it was like someone pointed a flash light in my eyes it was so bright. I saw another one streak through the sky ... It was one of the most thrilling sights to behold a ball of fire flying through the sky." I have not yet seen any meteor reports of this event on the American Meteor Society's Fireball Sightings Log, but it's early yet, and this fireball, coming in the wee hours after a long holiday, probably did not catch many people out and about. Which makes reports like these, and yours, all the more important. If you saw this object, be sure to leave a report with the AMS, too. But judging from the descriptions, it almost certainly was a fireball, which is simply an especially bright meteor, vaporizing with an impressive flash. Here's a pretty good example on video. They are sometimes followed by a sonic boom, which would explain the booming noises in the reports. Some fireball observers - though none yet for this event - also report a crackling or hissing sound that is concurrent with the meteor's flash and which has never been fully explained scientifically. Although meteor rates begin to pick up in July, this is not the peak time for any particular meteor shower. It seems likely this was a "sporadic," or isolated meteor that just happened to be especially big and bright. Big ones like this are always unexpected, always startling to witness, and always a thrill. From jamie.kimberley at jhu.edu Mon Jul 6 13:53:52 2009 From: jamie.kimberley at jhu.edu (Jamie Kimberley) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 13:53:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! In-Reply-To: <599339.61653.qm@web110615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <599339.61653.qm@web110615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I believe that I saw this fireball, though I think it was closer to 1:00 AM. I was traveling south on I-95 in Delaware when I saw a bright streak (looked like some fragmentation) to my right (was in the passenger side of a car). I can probably find my location on google maps as I was probably 1/2 mile north of a toll plaza. let me know if this would be useful. Thanks, Jamie On Mon, 6 Jul 2009, Michael Farmer wrote: > > Alright you aspiring meteorite hunters on the east coast, a large > fireball with explosions that shook houses in PA was reported at > 1:10 am this morning! If there are explosions, it is close and can > be found. No excuses, as some of us are busy in Arizona. Michael > Farmer > > http://www.wgal.com/news/19966650/detail.html > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > "It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes."--Douglas Adams __________________ Jamie Kimberley Postdoctoral Fellow Department of Mechanical Engineering The Johns Hopkins University Office: 410.516.5162 Mobile: 217.621.8272 Fax: 410.516.4316 E-Mail:jamie.kimberley at jhu.edu From damoclid at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 14:55:14 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! Message-ID: <583819.86158.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Interesting that most of the reports state around 1:10 - 1:15, with the exception of the police officers, who report it occurred just after midnight. So much for them being "trained observers". -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Mon Jul 6 14:59:18 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 11:59:18 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! In-Reply-To: <583819.86158.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <583819.86158.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <80543FCE-2426-464A-B9F0-53FF8CF79352@comcast.net> Is there any time zone difference in that area or is it all eastern standard? Michael Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:55 AM, Richard Kowalski wrote: > > Interesting that most of the reports state around 1:10 - 1:15, with > the exception of the police officers, who report it occurred just > after midnight. So much for them being "trained observers". > > -- > Richard Kowalski > http://fullmoonphotography.net > IMCA #1081 > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 15:04:05 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 12:04:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! Message-ID: <739106.8050.qm@web46413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I am making plans to head there now, I know people in the area who I have talked to, I think it is very close to york county fall. Anyone interested in joining me for this to help search for it? Greg C. --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! > To: "Richard Kowalski" > Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 2:59 PM > Is there any time zone difference in > that area or is it all eastern standard? > Michael > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:55 AM, Richard Kowalski > wrote: > > > > > Interesting that most of the reports state around 1:10 > - 1:15, with the exception of the police officers, who > report it occurred just after midnight. So much for them > being "trained observers". > > > > -- > > Richard Kowalski > > http://fullmoonphotography.net > > IMCA #1081 > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 15:06:29 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 12:06:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! Message-ID: <201688.511.qm@web110609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Greg good luck I may see you there depending on what turns up today. See how things turn on a dime. Should I come up there I would love to meet you. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 6, 2009, at 12:04 PM, Greg Catterton wrote: I am making plans to head there now, I know people in the area who I have talked to, I think it is very close to york county fall. Anyone interested in joining me for this to help search for it? Greg C. --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Michael Farmer wrote: From: Michael Farmer Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! To: "Richard Kowalski" Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 2:59 PM Is there any time zone difference in that area or is it all eastern standard? Michael Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:55 AM, Richard Kowalski wrote: Interesting that most of the reports state around 1:10 - 1:15, with the exception of the police officers, who report it occurred just after midnight. So much for them being "trained observers". -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From damoclid at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 15:22:50 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 12:22:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! Message-ID: <475701.58641.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good Luck Greg. Have fun! Mike, its all be Eastern Daylight Time in that area. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 From lintonius at earthlink.net Mon Jul 6 15:25:09 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 12:25:09 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Arizona's Newest Fall References: Message-ID: <4C5BD3E89F5942A1A978D3F763F487AC@D190TH71> Congratulations Jack! Thanks to you and Michael for keeping us informed. When the time is right, perhaps this can be my first hunt. In the meantime, best wishes to all of you out there. :^) Linton From dave at fallingrocks.com Mon Jul 6 15:55:57 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 15:55:57 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone haveinfo on these? (or specimens?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <23600EB234CE4ED0ABCF461EB2C981A8@meteorroom> Mike/All, The boy in Mbale was photographed with the small stone in his hand and was also in some video footage taken at the time of the fall by the Dutch group. Both can be seen here: http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/Mbale.htm, but I gather that no one knows where that 3 gram stone is today. Jean Baptiste-Biot also recorded testimony from a man who claimed to have been struck in the arm by a L'Aigle stone. Given the veracity, worldwide acceptance and historic nature of his report, there's probably a better than average chance it's true, but we'll never know. Some info here: http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/L'Aigle.htm. All best, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic Stone & Ironworks Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 12:19 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone haveinfo on these? (or specimens?) Hi List and Hammer Fans, (MC Hammer fans please skip this post - this is about Hammer Meteorites, not rappers) While reading through Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites last night, I ran across some entries that describe possible hammer falls. I was wondering if someone here on the List might have more information about them, or possibly a specimen (or photo). Mbale - everyone knows it's a hammer because it struck many buildings. But, the entry in the Catalogue of Mets states - "...The stones hit several buildings, but nobody was hurt, although a young boy was apparently hit on the head..." It then goes on to say that an expedition by the Dutch Meteor Society investigated the fall and documented 48 impact locations. Did they (or anyone) investigate the claim of the boy being hit on the head? Since everyone refers to Sylacauga as the only meteorite documented to strike a human being in modern times, then I am I right to assume that the Mbale boy was debunked or never proven? ... Mhow (yes, I was reading through the M's!) - Mhow is an obscure L6 fall from India. On Feb 16, 1827 at 15:00 hrs local time, 4 or 5 stones fell and that one struck a tree and another wounded a man. This was an L6 chondrite. Was this claim ever investigated at any time? ... Neagari - Feb 18, 1995 Japanese fall, L6 chondrite. The Catalogue of Mets states : "...The next morning, in the city of Neagari, Mr. K. Sasatani found a hole in the boot of his car and meteorite fragments were on and inside the boot." For those of us West of the Big Pond, a car boot is a car trunk. ;) I guess it doesn't matter if this claim was substantiated or not because the finder owns the entire main mass and only a small type specimen exists at the Tokyo Museum. So this one is unattainable - unless someone wants to offer Mr. Sasatani some sake and loosen him up to an offer. ;) ... I'm sure I'll run across more of these as I make my way through the Catalogue. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cdtucson at cox.net Mon Jul 6 16:17:55 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 13:17:55 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Az hunted out? In-Reply-To: <201688.511.qm@web110609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090706161755.0TU8E.199495.imail@fed1rmwml44> Mike, Does this mean the new Az strewnfield is hunted out already? -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Michael Farmer wrote: > > Greg good luck I may see you there depending on what turns up today. > See how things turn on a dime. Should I come up there I would love to meet you. > Michael Farmer > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Jul 6, 2009, at 12:04 PM, Greg Catterton wrote: > > > I am making plans to head there now, I know people in the area who I have talked to, I think it is very close to york county fall. > Anyone interested in joining me for this to help search for it? > > Greg C. > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! > To: "Richard Kowalski" > Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 2:59 PM > Is there any time zone difference in > that area or is it all eastern standard? > Michael > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:55 AM, Richard Kowalski > wrote: > > > Interesting that most of the reports state around 1:10 > - 1:15, with the exception of the police officers, who > report it occurred just after midnight. So much for them > being "trained observers". > > -- > Richard Kowalski > http://fullmoonphotography.net > IMCA #1081 > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From twelker at alaska.net Mon Jul 6 15:18:38 2009 From: twelker at alaska.net (Eric Twelker) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:18:38 -0800 Subject: [meteorite-list] Missing Meteorite Message-ID: <8F948E2C-2065-4C52-8E2C-76C90098BCB7@alaska.net> Hi List I am missing two meteorites from the US Mail--an ~800g Gujba fragment and a ~120g Gujba fragment. DHL tossed these in the mail because they cut service to my town and don't come here any more. (Thanks DHL--I won't recommend your crappy service to anyone.) While it is probable that they are truly lost, there is a slight chance that they have been stolen and could appear in the marketplace. If list members would keep their eyes open for these and let me know, I would appreciate it. Thanks! Eric Twelker http://www.meteoritemarket.com From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 16:23:22 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 13:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Az hunted out? Message-ID: <349198.74273.qm@web110608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> No Carl it doesn't. I am not the only meteorite hunter out here. The team might survive without me as they did when I was in Europe. The group I work with are all professionals and can all work alone. We don't need that 24/7 hand holding that some like. Jack found the meteorite and can continue should I leave. Michael Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 6, 2009, at 1:17 PM, wrote: Mike, Does this mean the new Az strewnfield is hunted out already? -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Michael Farmer wrote: Greg good luck I may see you there depending on what turns up today. See how things turn on a dime. Should I come up there I would love to meet you. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 6, 2009, at 12:04 PM, Greg Catterton wrote: I am making plans to head there now, I know people in the area who I have talked to, I think it is very close to york county fall. Anyone interested in joining me for this to help search for it? Greg C. --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Michael Farmer wrote: From: Michael Farmer Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! To: "Richard Kowalski" Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 2:59 PM Is there any time zone difference in that area or is it all eastern standard? Michael Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:55 AM, Richard Kowalski wrote: Interesting that most of the reports state around 1:10 - 1:15, with the exception of the police officers, who report it occurred just after midnight. So much for them being "trained observers". -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 16:27:23 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (mstreman53 at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 13:27:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunting in one's own "backyard"? Message-ID: <367116.97681.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Well Richard, From one who did much of that and spends more time in the field than 98% of the folks reading this...IF you are independently wealthy don't have job, education, or family obligations ,have the free time to spend 24/7 on the search for 3 to 4 years and are willing to accept the odds of >10% of less success, willing to sleep in the cab of your truck, then sounds like you have a plan as good as any. If you want to improve your odds don't even start out until you have personally looked at/examined 500-1200 meteorites, reviewed the photos of 2000 more meteorites and 3000 meteor-wrongs, read 100-300 linear feet of journals including half of it plain ole mineralogy and petrology.? If you ever think you would like to take a short cut and just run down fireballs then to improve your odds some more,you'll need a fundamental survey in infra-sonics, seizmographic theory and how to locate and read seizmograms, Geo-science Information Systems human/eye physiology/psychological perception, navigation, including reading topographical maps and using a circular slide rule to compute displacement by winds aloft, a bit of trig and survey course on the techniques of surveying or artillery. Meteorology , physics plus a basic chemistry understanding--Folks WILL ask you questions on every imaginable topic.? Like it or not you will be an ambassador for science.? Accident Scene Investigation and Intervierw skills translate over to interviewing witnesses. To make meteorite hunting productive most casual hunters also hunt fossils, minerals, arrowheads and take wild life photos so they will have something to show for their time afield. Don't forget to include cemeteries in your search plan: grave spoils are better than stone walls in my opinion. You might take another more productive path and read the archives of the metlist. Re Moraines, rockwalls, rock piles, etc. Regards, Elton --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Richard Kowalski wrote: > From: Richard Kowalski > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunting in one's own "backyard"? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 5:45 AM > > As a relative newbie to this field, I've been pouring > through books, websites and videos on youtube learning more > about meteorites and meteorite hunting. > > There appears to be good information out there for the > beginning hunter to get started. It seems that the falls get > the attention and I understand the attraction of finding > fresh material immediately after a fall. However it strikes > me that just about anyone can hunt practically in their > backyard and have the search area all to themselves. > > In Richard Norton's _Rocks from Space_ in the chapter on > meteorite hunting, page 315 under "The Farm Belt" he wrote > "It has been more than 50 years since Harvey Nininger > successfully search the farms of the midwest for meteorites. > It's time to retrace his footsteps and try again. ... > Farmlands in Michigan Illinois, Ohio, Iowa, and Indiana were > barely touched by Nininger's search." > > I'm curious if anyone has made a concerted effort to repeat > his searches, both where he worked and in other areas? In > the same book, it is mentioned that early on Nininger simply > asked for permission to search through the rock piles that > accumulate on just about every farm. It would seem to me > that there are many, many farms in just about every state > that could hold a cache of meteorites that are simply > weathering away because no one has taken the time to look > for and recover them. > > Maybe this type of hunting is not as sexy as hunting for > fragments that brand new fall with their sleek fusion crust, > but then again, one wouldn't have to travel across the > country or around the world just to start searching and then > be in a race to find fragments and individuals before a > competitor does. > > I may be missing something here but I'd be interested in > hearing how many hunters actually do this, if any, and how > often they turn up a new meteorite. > > Thanks > > -- > Richard Kowalski > http://fullmoonphotography.net > IMCA #1081 > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From peterscherff at rcn.com Mon Jul 6 16:19:21 2009 From: peterscherff at rcn.com (Peter Scherff) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 16:19:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone have info on these? (or specimens?) In-Reply-To: <782958.23052.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <782958.23052.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004f01c9fe77$0ce928a0$26bb79e0$@com> Hi Elton, The photo of the car that the Neagari meteorite hit is still up. http://earth.s.kanazawa-u.ac.jp/ishiwata/labo/neagariUS.html Thanks, Peter -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mr EMan Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:10 PM To: Meteorite List; Galactic Stone & Ironworks Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone have info on these? (or specimens?) > Neagari - Feb 18, 1995 Japanese fall, L6 chondrite.? > The Catalogue of Mets states : "...The next morning, in the city of Neagari, Mr. K. Sasatani found a hole in the boot of his car and meteorite fragments were on and inside the boot." Yes the claim was substantiated and an interesting thing about this car hit was that the stone was apparently spinning as it left a pin-wheel pattern in the scraped paint. At one time there were photos on the web. I believe he found the main mass lying in the street and it matched it to the the indentation in the "boot". Yes there was a puncture. Elton ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From peterscherff at rcn.com Mon Jul 6 16:31:47 2009 From: peterscherff at rcn.com (Peter Scherff) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 16:31:47 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone have info on these? (or specimens?) In-Reply-To: <782958.23052.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <782958.23052.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005101c9fe78$c90ef0e0$5b2cd2a0$@com> Hi Elton, The photo of the car that the Neagari meteorite hit is still up. http://earth.s.kanazawa-u.ac.jp/ishiwata/labo/neagariUS.html Thanks, Peter -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mr EMan Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:10 PM To: Meteorite List; Galactic Stone & Ironworks Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone have info on these? (or specimens?) > Neagari - Feb 18, 1995 Japanese fall, L6 chondrite.? > The Catalogue of Mets states : "...The next morning, in the city of Neagari, Mr. K. Sasatani found a hole in the boot of his car and meteorite fragments were on and inside the boot." Yes the claim was substantiated and an interesting thing about this car hit was that the stone was apparently spinning as it left a pin-wheel pattern in the scraped paint. At one time there were photos on the web. I believe he found the main mass lying in the street and it matched it to the the indentation in the "boot". Yes there was a puncture. Elton ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 16:37:16 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 13:37:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA!--MD or WV more likely Message-ID: <900905.21820.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I agree with Darren's new info. This is probably not in PA. I have started plots and this looks more like over Maryland's Serpentine Barrens/Belt or more southerly. Which may include West Virginia. CAUTION: This could very well be in the vicinity of Camp David when more info is confirmed. Before you leave for the region you might want to see what we can find to narrow it down when we get sensor data. Then again at least the Amish don't shoot trespassers. Elton --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 3:39 PM > On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 10:40:56 -0700 > (PDT), you wrote: > > > > >Alright you aspiring meteorite hunters on the east > coast, a large fireball with explosions that shook houses in > PA was reported at 1:10 am this morning! If there are > explosions, it is close and can be found. > >No excuses, as some of us are busy in Arizona. > >Michael Farmer > > > >http://www.wgal.com/news/19966650/detail.html > > More: > > http://weblogs.marylandweather.com/2009/07/a_masondixon_meteor.html > > A Mason-Dixon meteor? > > We have been receiving reports today of a likely meteor > over north-central > Maryland and southern Pennsylvania early Monday morning. > (Not the one in the > Flickr.com image above.) > > Below are the first reports we have received. If you heard > or saw something > similar, around the same time, please leave a comment. > Include the time, your > location, which direction you saw the object or flash, a > description of what you > saw, and note any boom or other sound you heard, as well as > the time lapse > between flash and boom. > > The York Dispatch:? In York County, Pa., police > officers from Penn Township, > Southwestern Regional and Newberry Township reported seeing > a flash and hearing > a boom around 1:15 a.m. Monday, July 6, according to local > 911 centers. > Officials in Harford County, Md. also reported seeing a > flash and hearing a boom > near the Mason-Dixon Line. > > Capital Gazette: An Annapolis city police officer reported > that she and her > partner both saw what she described as a "bright blue light > in the sky" just > after midnight. It was followed by "a light with a tail, > falling from the sky," > according to our informant. Annapolis police reported > hearing a similar report > on Baltimore County police radio. > > Gary Moon, reporting to The Sun's News Tips: "I heard and > felt a deep earth > blast similar to an earthquake, which shook my home in Glen > Rock, Pa., early > Monday morning. I thought I would hear MUCH more about this > one ... nothing." > > Deborah Markow, Havre de Grace: "Last night, couldn't > sleep, went out on back > deck, laid on lounge, eyes closed and then it was like > someone pointed a flash > light in my eyes it was so bright. I saw another one streak > through the sky ... > It was one of the most thrilling sights to behold a ball of > fire flying through > the sky." > > I have not yet seen any meteor reports of this event on the > American Meteor > Society's Fireball Sightings Log, but it's early yet, and > this fireball, coming > in the wee hours after a long holiday, probably did not > catch many people out > and about. > > Which makes reports like these, and yours, all the more > important. If you saw > this object, be sure to leave a report with the AMS, too. > > But judging from the descriptions, it almost certainly was > a fireball, which is > simply an especially bright meteor, vaporizing with an > impressive flash. > > Here's a pretty good example on video. > > They are sometimes followed by a sonic boom, which would > explain the booming > noises in the reports. Some fireball observers - though > none yet for this event > - also report a crackling or hissing sound that is > concurrent with the meteor's > flash and which has never been fully explained > scientifically. > > Although meteor rates begin to pick up in July, this is not > the peak time for > any particular meteor shower. It seems likely this was a > "sporadic," or isolated > meteor that just happened to be especially big and bright. > Big ones like this > are always unexpected, always startling to witness, and > always a thrill. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 16:40:22 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 13:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone have info on these? (or specimens?) Message-ID: <877618.28296.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> My Bad, Peter, I thought I remembered him having to pick some of it up off the ground, I didn't realize it had entered the trunk/boot. Thanks --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Peter Scherff wrote: > From: Peter Scherff > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone have info on these? (or specimens?) > To: "'Mr EMan'" , "'Meteorite List'" , "'Galactic Stone & Ironworks'" > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 4:19 PM > Hi Elton, > > ??? The photo of the car that the Neagari > meteorite hit is still up. > > http://earth.s.kanazawa-u.ac.jp/ishiwata/labo/neagariUS.html > > Thanks, > > Peter > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] > On Behalf Of Mr EMan > Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:10 PM > To: Meteorite List; Galactic Stone & Ironworks > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer > Falls - Anyone have > info on these? (or specimens?) > > > > > Neagari - Feb 18, 1995 Japanese fall, L6 chondrite.? > > The Catalogue of Mets states : "...The next morning, > in the city of > Neagari, Mr. K. Sasatani found a hole in the boot of his > car and meteorite > fragments were on and inside the boot." > > Yes the claim was substantiated and an interesting thing > about this car hit > was that the stone was apparently spinning as it left a > pin-wheel pattern in > the scraped paint.? At one time there were photos on > the web. > > I believe he found the main mass lying in the street and it > matched it to > the the indentation in the "boot".? Yes there was a > puncture. > > Elton > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 16:47:02 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 13:47:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Oh my, take a look at this of you want a good laugh Message-ID: <73565.54333.qm@web110609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Look what I found screwing around on youtube! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLq7mGRT170 Michael Farmer From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 16:57:58 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 13:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Oh my, take a look at this of you want a good laugh Message-ID: <943601.54271.qm@web46401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> That is too funny! --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: [meteorite-list] Oh my, take a look at this of you want a good laugh > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 4:47 PM > > Look what I found screwing around on youtube! > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLq7mGRT170 > > Michael Farmer > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 17:01:05 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 14:01:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA!--MD or WV more likely Message-ID: <970000.44417.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Disregard the Camp David caution as I don't believe it traveled that far. Elton --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Mr EMan wrote: > From: Mr EMan > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA!--MD or WV more likely > To: cynapse at charter.net, "metlist" > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 4:37 PM > > I agree with Darren's new info.? This is probably not > in PA. I have started plots and this looks more like over > Maryland's Serpentine Barrens/Belt or more southerly. Which > may include West Virginia. > > CAUTION:? This could very well be in the vicinity of > Camp David when more info is confirmed. > > Before you leave for the region you might want to see what > we can find to narrow it down when we get sensor data.? > Then again at least the Amish don't shoot trespassers. > > Elton From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 17:03:01 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 14:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA!--MD or WV more likely Message-ID: <780913.96792.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Elton, the loudest reports are from the PA Md border, quite a distance from WV. Why do you put it there and not north of Baltimore? mike --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Mr EMan wrote: > From: Mr EMan > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA!--MD or WV more likely > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 3:01 PM > > Disregard the Camp David caution as I don't believe it > traveled that far. > > Elton > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Mr EMan > wrote: > > > From: Mr EMan > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in > PA!--MD or WV more likely > > To: cynapse at charter.net, > "metlist" > > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 4:37 PM > > > > I agree with Darren's new info.? This is probably > not > > in PA. I have started plots and this looks more like > over > > Maryland's Serpentine Barrens/Belt or more southerly. > Which > > may include West Virginia. > > > > CAUTION:? This could very well be in the vicinity of > > Camp David when more info is confirmed. > > > > Before you leave for the region you might want to see > what > > we can find to narrow it down when we get sensor > data.? > > Then again at least the Amish don't shoot > trespassers. > > > > Elton > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mikewren at gilanet.com Mon Jul 6 17:03:46 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 14:03:46 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: HIGHLIGHTS FOR AUCTIONS! 10% to 50% Off Until Weds/8th, MID SUMMER SALE! Message-ID: <261900DF-9D18-4B83-BB10-47830EBD3501@gilanet.com> Hello, Worth A look! I think this is one of my BEST SALES OF THE SUMMER! Rare Books, Rare Meteorites, A 10% to 50% Off Select Items. 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Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jul 6 18:19:57 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:19:57 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Oh my, take a look at this of you want a good laugh In-Reply-To: <73565.54333.qm@web110609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <73565.54333.qm@web110609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Look at this video from the "related videos" column on that, where the wackjob proves that iron is attracted to magnets! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrRAW2NrVRo&feature=related From mlblood at cox.net Mon Jul 6 17:18:38 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:18:38 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone haveinfo on these? (or specimens?) In-Reply-To: <23600EB234CE4ED0ABCF461EB2C981A8@meteorroom> Message-ID: Thanks, Dave, I have had L'Aigle on my hammer page since you Told me about it being a hammer. Very cool - of course, Your specimen is THE too cool L'Aigle! Best wishes, Michael On 7/6/09 12:55 PM, "Dave Gheesling" wrote: > Mike/All, > > The boy in Mbale was photographed with the small stone in his hand and was > also in some video footage taken at the time of the fall by the Dutch group. > Both can be seen here: http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/Mbale.htm, > but I gather that no one knows where that 3 gram stone is today. > > Jean Baptiste-Biot also recorded testimony from a man who claimed to have > been struck in the arm by a L'Aigle stone. Given the veracity, worldwide > acceptance and historic nature of his report, there's probably a better than > average chance it's true, but we'll never know. Some info here: > http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/L'Aigle.htm. > > All best, > > Dave > > www.fallingrocks.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic > Stone & Ironworks > Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 12:19 PM > To: Meteorite List > Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone haveinfo > on these? (or specimens?) > > Hi List and Hammer Fans, > > (MC Hammer fans please skip this post - this is about Hammer Meteorites, not > rappers) > > While reading through Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites last night, I ran > across some entries that describe possible hammer falls. I was wondering if > someone here on the List might have more information about them, or possibly > a specimen (or photo). > > Mbale - everyone knows it's a hammer because it struck many buildings. > > But, the entry in the Catalogue of Mets states - "...The stones hit several > buildings, but nobody was hurt, although a young boy was apparently hit on > the head..." > > It then goes on to say that an expedition by the Dutch Meteor Society > investigated the fall and documented 48 impact locations. Did they (or > anyone) investigate the claim of the boy being hit on the head? > Since everyone refers to Sylacauga as the only meteorite documented to > strike a human being in modern times, then I am I right to assume that the > Mbale boy was debunked or never proven? > > ... > > Mhow (yes, I was reading through the M's!) - Mhow is an obscure L6 fall from > India. On Feb 16, 1827 at 15:00 hrs local time, 4 or 5 stones fell and that > one struck a tree and another wounded a man. > This was an L6 chondrite. Was this claim ever investigated at any > time? > > ... > > Neagari - Feb 18, 1995 Japanese fall, L6 chondrite. The Catalogue of Mets > states : > > "...The next morning, in the city of Neagari, Mr. K. Sasatani found a hole > in the boot of his car and meteorite fragments were on and inside the boot." > > For those of us West of the Big Pond, a car boot is a car trunk. ;) > > I guess it doesn't matter if this claim was substantiated or not because the > finder owns the entire main mass and only a small type specimen exists at > the Tokyo Museum. So this one is unattainable - unless someone wants to > offer Mr. Sasatani some sake and loosen him up to an offer. ;) > > ... > > I'm sure I'll run across more of these as I make my way through the > Catalogue. > > Best regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From geoking at notkin.net Mon Jul 6 17:33:09 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 14:33:09 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Oh my, take a look at this of you want a good laugh In-Reply-To: <73565.54333.qm@web110609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <73565.54333.qm@web110609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <70654736-9FEE-4D0A-9228-26D90161F2E3@notkin.net> Mike Farmer posted: > Look what I found screwing around on youtube! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLq7mGRT170 Hey Mike: I'm glad you had a good laugh over that segment. I thought it was the funniest thing I've seen in months. If you can't laugh at yourself, you shouldn't be working in television. I posted that clip on YouTube myself after the network sent it to me. I guess you're doing something right when a major network like VH1 spends the time and money to make a parody : ) Being on VH1 also introduced us to a ton of new viewers, so that was cool. I linked to the VH1 clip from our Meteorite Men website, but I don't think I ever posted it to the M-List. So, thank you for doing that for me. We always appreciate your support. Nanu, nanu! Regards, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com www.meteoriteblog.org From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jul 6 18:46:46 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:46:46 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA!--MD or WV more likely In-Reply-To: <970000.44417.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <970000.44417.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0kv45596q6k42eq78tpk5j75b0942rviqg@4ax.com> Are there any web sites that archive doppler radar readings? Beyond the few minutes to a couple of hours shown on local news/weather sites? That would be a great resource for trying to pin down a location (like was used with West). From damoclid at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 17:44:36 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 14:44:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunting in one's own "backyard"? Message-ID: <599205.88673.qm@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks Elton, I never meant to disparage those who work tirelessly tracking down falls and find meteorites. I know a lot is involved in the venture and admire the work that they do. Especially when their work is scientifically rigorous and they properly record the data from the fall as is happening now with the fall near Tucson. I was curious if searching through farm rock piles might be a viable search method for those would-be hunters that for all the reasons you cite can't chase falls. There aren't many farms here in southern Arizona, so I wasn't planning on doing this myself. While I hope to be out in the field in the not too distant future, I'll admit I'm way too soft to do what most of you do. I prefer climbing into bed after a clear night at the telescope. Finding 1 to 10 new Near Earth Asteroids per night sounds a lot easier. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Catalina Sky Survey Lunar and Planetary Laboratory University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721 http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/css/ From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 17:48:31 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 14:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA!--MD more likely Message-ID: <371171.977.qm@web46408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Not many reports have come from MD, the ones I have seen are a bit off as regards to the time of the fall. Also I have read of the reports that the booms were best heard from PA area, closer to Southern Hanover. What is the normal time from the booms to impact? I understand it to be within 75 miles or so, is this correct? Greg C. --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA!--MD or WV more likely > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Mr EMan" > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 5:03 PM > > Elton, the loudest reports are from the PA Md border, quite > a distance from WV. Why do you put it there and not north of > Baltimore? > mike > > > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Mr EMan > wrote: > > > From: Mr EMan > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in > PA!--MD or WV more likely > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 3:01 PM > > > > Disregard the Camp David caution as I don't believe > it > > traveled that far. > > > > Elton > > > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Mr EMan > > wrote: > > > > > From: Mr EMan > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in > > PA!--MD or WV more likely > > > To: cynapse at charter.net, > > "metlist" > > > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 4:37 PM > > > > > > I agree with Darren's new info.? This is > probably > > not > > > in PA. I have started plots and this looks more > like > > over > > > Maryland's Serpentine Barrens/Belt or more > southerly. > > Which > > > may include West Virginia. > > > > > > CAUTION:? This could very well be in the > vicinity of > > > Camp David when more info is confirmed. > > > > > > Before you leave for the region you might want to > see > > what > > > we can find to narrow it down when we get sensor > > data.? > > > Then again at least the Amish don't shoot > > trespassers. > > > > > > Elton > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoritemike at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 18:47:50 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 18:47:50 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Missing Meteorite In-Reply-To: <8F948E2C-2065-4C52-8E2C-76C90098BCB7@alaska.net> References: <8F948E2C-2065-4C52-8E2C-76C90098BCB7@alaska.net> Message-ID: I hate to hear that Eric, that stinks. :( Do you have no recourse with DHL? Are they allowed to do that with your packages? (apparently they think so) Best regards and I hope you get them back, MikeG On 7/6/09, Eric Twelker wrote: > Hi List > > I am missing two meteorites from the US Mail--an ~800g Gujba fragment > and a ~120g Gujba fragment. DHL tossed these in the mail because they > cut service to my town and don't come here any more. (Thanks DHL--I > won't recommend your crappy service to anyone.) While it is probable > that they are truly lost, there is a slight chance that they have been > stolen and could appear in the marketplace. If list members would > keep their eyes open for these and let me know, I would appreciate > it. Thanks! > > Eric Twelker > http://www.meteoritemarket.com > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From cdtucson at cox.net Mon Jul 6 19:05:27 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 16:05:27 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Az hunted out? In-Reply-To: <349198.74273.qm@web110608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090706190527.PX74O.202107.imail@fed1rmwml44> Mike, I'm sure I speak for the group that this is seriously saddening news. You don't hold hands with the fellows? -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Michael Farmer wrote: > > No Carl it doesn't. I am not the only meteorite hunter out here. The team might survive without me as they did when I was in Europe. The group > I work with are all professionals and can all work alone. We don't need that 24/7 hand holding that some like. Jack found the meteorite and can continue should I leave. > Michael > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Jul 6, 2009, at 1:17 PM, wrote: > > Mike, Does this mean the new Az strewnfield is hunted out already? > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > > > ---- Michael Farmer wrote: > > Greg good luck I may see you there depending on what turns up today. > See how things turn on a dime. Should I come up there I would love to meet you. > Michael Farmer > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Jul 6, 2009, at 12:04 PM, Greg Catterton wrote: > > > I am making plans to head there now, I know people in the area who I have talked to, I think it is very close to york county fall. > Anyone interested in joining me for this to help search for it? > > Greg C. > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! > To: "Richard Kowalski" > Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 2:59 PM > Is there any time zone difference in > that area or is it all eastern standard? > Michael > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:55 AM, Richard Kowalski > wrote: > > > Interesting that most of the reports state around 1:10 > - 1:15, with the exception of the police officers, who > report it occurred just after midnight. So much for them > being "trained observers". > > -- > Richard Kowalski > http://fullmoonphotography.net > IMCA #1081 > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 19:11:33 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 16:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! Perhaps near Delta? Message-ID: <750687.20508.qm@web46415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I am thinking perhaps this is within 75 miles of Delta PA from what I have been able to figure out. Anyone else get anymore news or information? Greg C. --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Greg Catterton wrote: > From: Greg Catterton > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA!--MD more likely > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 5:48 PM > > Not many reports have come from MD, the ones I have seen > are a bit off as regards to the time of the fall. > Also I have read of the reports that the booms were best > heard from PA area, closer to Southern Hanover. What is the > normal time from the booms to impact? I understand it to be > within 75 miles or so, is this correct? > > Greg C. > > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Michael Farmer > wrote: > > > From: Michael Farmer > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in > PA!--MD or WV more likely > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, > "Mr EMan" > > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 5:03 PM > > > > Elton, the loudest reports are from the PA Md border, > quite > > a distance from WV. Why do you put it there and not > north of > > Baltimore? > > mike > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Mr EMan > > wrote: > > > > > From: Mr EMan > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in > > PA!--MD or WV more likely > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 3:01 PM > > > > > > Disregard the Camp David caution as I don't > believe > > it > > > traveled that far. > > > > > > Elton > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Mr EMan > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Mr EMan > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball > in > > > PA!--MD or WV more likely > > > > To: cynapse at charter.net, > > > "metlist" > > > > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 4:37 PM > > > > > > > > I agree with Darren's new info.? This is > > probably > > > not > > > > in PA. I have started plots and this looks > more > > like > > > over > > > > Maryland's Serpentine Barrens/Belt or more > > southerly. > > > Which > > > > may include West Virginia. > > > > > > > > CAUTION:? This could very well be in the > > vicinity of > > > > Camp David when more info is confirmed. > > > > > > > > Before you leave for the region you might > want to > > see > > > what > > > > we can find to narrow it down when we get > sensor > > > data.? > > > > Then again at least the Amish don't shoot > > > trespassers. > > > > > > > > Elton > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Mon Jul 6 19:10:09 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 16:10:09 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Az hunted out? In-Reply-To: <20090706190527.PX74O.202107.imail@fed1rmwml44> References: <20090706190527.PX74O.202107.imail@fed1rmwml44> Message-ID: Carl If you Spent half as much time hunting as you spend talking this kind of crap you might just find something. Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 6, 2009, at 4:05 PM, wrote: > Mike, > I'm sure I speak for the group that this is seriously saddening > news. You don't hold hands with the fellows? > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > > > ---- Michael Farmer wrote: >> >> No Carl it doesn't. I am not the only meteorite hunter out here. >> The team might survive without me as they did when I was in Europe. >> The group >> I work with are all professionals and can all work alone. We don't >> need that 24/7 hand holding that some like. Jack found the >> meteorite and can continue should I leave. >> Michael >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> Michael >> >> >> On Jul 6, 2009, at 1:17 PM, wrote: >> >> Mike, Does this mean the new Az strewnfield is hunted out already? >> -- >> Carl or Debbie Esparza >> IMCA 5829 >> Meteoritemax >> >> >> ---- Michael Farmer wrote: >> >> Greg good luck I may see you there depending on what turns up today. >> See how things turn on a dime. Should I come up there I would love >> to meet you. >> Michael Farmer >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> Michael >> >> >> On Jul 6, 2009, at 12:04 PM, Greg Catterton > > wrote: >> >> >> I am making plans to head there now, I know people in the area who >> I have talked to, I think it is very close to york county fall. >> Anyone interested in joining me for this to help search for it? >> >> Greg C. >> >> --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Michael Farmer >> wrote: >> >> From: Michael Farmer >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! >> To: "Richard Kowalski" >> Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" > > >> Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 2:59 PM >> Is there any time zone difference in >> that area or is it all eastern standard? >> Michael >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> Michael >> >> >> On Jul 6, 2009, at 11:55 AM, Richard Kowalski >> wrote: >> >> >> Interesting that most of the reports state around 1:10 >> - 1:15, with the exception of the police officers, who >> report it occurred just after midnight. So much for them >> being "trained observers". >> >> -- >> Richard Kowalski >> http://fullmoonphotography.net >> IMCA #1081 >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 20:07:47 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 17:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! Perhaps near Delta? video Message-ID: <814451.44446.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Video from the local news there, has interviews with people who witnesed the fall. http://www.wgal.com/video/19971301/index.html Im pretty sure now that this is close to the area of Delta PA. Greg C. --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Greg Catterton wrote: > From: Greg Catterton > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in PA! Perhaps near Delta? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 7:11 PM > > I am thinking perhaps this is within 75 miles of Delta PA > from what I have been able to figure out. > Anyone else get anymore news or information? > > Greg C. > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Greg Catterton > wrote: > > > From: Greg Catterton > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in > PA!--MD more likely > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 5:48 PM > > > > Not many reports have come from MD, the ones I have > seen > > are a bit off as regards to the time of the fall. > > Also I have read of the reports that the booms were > best > > heard from PA area, closer to Southern Hanover. What > is the > > normal time from the booms to impact? I understand it > to be > > within 75 miles or so, is this correct? > > > > Greg C. > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Michael Farmer > > wrote: > > > > > From: Michael Farmer > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball in > > PA!--MD or WV more likely > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, > > "Mr EMan" > > > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 5:03 PM > > > > > > Elton, the loudest reports are from the PA Md > border, > > quite > > > a distance from WV. Why do you put it there and > not > > north of > > > Baltimore? > > > mike > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Mr EMan > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Mr EMan > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large fireball > in > > > PA!--MD or WV more likely > > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 3:01 PM > > > > > > > > Disregard the Camp David caution as I don't > > believe > > > it > > > > traveled that far. > > > > > > > > Elton > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Mr EMan > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Mr EMan > > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Large > fireball > > in > > > > PA!--MD or WV more likely > > > > > To: cynapse at charter.net, > > > > "metlist" > > > > > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 4:37 PM > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Darren's new info.? This > is > > > probably > > > > not > > > > > in PA. I have started plots and this > looks > > more > > > like > > > > over > > > > > Maryland's Serpentine Barrens/Belt or > more > > > southerly. > > > > Which > > > > > may include West Virginia. > > > > > > > > > > CAUTION:? This could very well be in > the > > > vicinity of > > > > > Camp David when more info is > confirmed. > > > > > > > > > > Before you leave for the region you > might > > want to > > > see > > > > what > > > > > we can find to narrow it down when we > get > > sensor > > > > data.? > > > > > Then again at least the Amish don't > shoot > > > > trespassers. > > > > > > > > > > Elton > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From almitt at kconline.com Mon Jul 6 20:15:37 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 20:15:37 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Old men say to Greg C. was Arizona Fall -detailed... In-Reply-To: <005501c9fe62$51ced790$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <208937.61663.qm@web46404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <005501c9fe62$51ced790$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <4215A0605DE34C92AB24D4B90CBE0AF4@StarmanPC> Hi Martin and all, Very well put and something we all should save and read a couple of times a year!! Your so many times right on with your thinking. --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Old men say to Greg C. was Arizona Fall -detailed... Hi Greg C. >I know what I pay for Lunar, and when I see others charging what they do, >it makes me wonder - I am just lucky to get it for what I do or do the >dealers really want to make that much off the collectors? >I do not want to throw sand or gloat, but I do speak what I think. Ya Greg, but you have to think before and to think a little bit further. Because I think, you disregard important parameters in your calculation. Seems that you're thinking - buying price minus selling price = profit. Which is somewhat short-sighted. Let's start with the most simple to understand: I don't know, are you paying taxes for your sales? Each "big" or professional dealer, who does his living with meteorites, has to do so. Don't know, I read somewhere, that the average tax&dues quota in USA would be smth around 30%. Plus here and there federal sales taxes. There are other countries, where the quota exceeds 50%. And maybe those professional dealers want to have a health insurance or even a pension plan like anybody in other professions has too? So the next point, perhaps not so easy to understand yet for you. A big dealer has to bring up permanently new material of rare types and new meteorites, the hunter in the field has to find permanently better stuff than the 90% ordinary chondrites, which are lying around, a fall chaser has to find pieces of the few falls per year at all, if they want to make a living from meteorites. So they have to work completely differently than you, who orders a few stones per year of already known (and in most cases known, because the hunters/dealers had them classified before) material from your armchair. And there we have a problem, Greg. Meteorites are by far the rarest stuff on Earth. A ruby, a world-class diamond, a dinosaur - no problem, a dealer can simply reorder, if he's running out - but with a new Lunar, a new Martian, ya even with a new eucrite - he can't. The professional hunters have to travel and to graze the fields week for week, hoping to find something better than an ordinary chondrite - look into the bulletins, how few achondrites were found in the US-deserts, how small the weight of all achondrites is, collected through more than 30 years in Antarctica, where the stones are especially easy to identify, or from that huge half of the continent covered by Sahara in the last 20 years. 100kgs of eucrites only from NWA, to give you a hint. And a fall hunter has to try his luck with the 7 or 10 falls per year. Ask the regular and best desert hunters in USA - we figured it already out on the list in former times, what for average find rates per hour they have, - the result is, that if they would like to live from their finds, it would be more rewarding and easier for them to tie around an apron and to get employed at a fast food instead. And the NWA-dealers - they have to travel to Morocco and have to try to identify new exiting stones. If the possible lunar turns later out to be an eucrite only or a terrestrial - bad luck, the money at stack is lost. That they have to compensate too. Other simply costs. You experienced it with your piece of the lunar - from your postings to the list, we heard that you got so insecure about the provenance or you weren't aware, that this material was already classified, that you almost - if not the nice members of the list, yes also big dealers, informed you, that it wouldn't be necessary - hence that you almost had reclassified that stuff at Ted Bunch again. That would have meant, that you'd have to give away 20% of your lunar for free, which again would have reduced your profit. You took advantage - as it is often with assumed pairings too - that others took the costs for classification. Yes it is true - the dealers do let classify their stones and if it's something so rare like a planetary, they do have to donate material of a retail value of 20 or 30k$. - and anyway most of the big dealers donate a lot more material of their finds than only the type & deposit specimens. Well more costs: You see the hunters in the deserts, the fall chasers, the NWA dealers, they all travel many months, half a year or more per year to get new finds for the collectors and researchers. That costs. We just read from Michael Farmer, that he has travel expenses per year of 50k$. That sum he has to earn! But just google around, what it would cost you, to buy a plane ticket to NWA wonderland, to rent a car, to spend several weeks there - and how many UNWAs or HEDs you would have to sell, to get only your travel costs back. And try to find there a new lunar or Martian - the odds you can figure out from the Bulletin database. Other costs. Transaction costs like paypal, ebay fees ect. you know by your own, But a dealer has to run a business, with all the costs for bureau, bookkeeping, advertising, machines, preparation costs and and and, Costs which an amateur seller doesn't has or not to that extend. Take only the iron preparators, how long does it take to completely slice down a 2kg Muonionalusta or a Campo, how long does it take to grind and to polish a hand sized slice to that perfect state and on both sides please, which allows an etching of that quality, which each collector does expect? How long does it take to stabilize and to preserve each slice at the state of art after etching? Have you an idea, how much such a slice would cost then, if you only would have to pay the minimum wage for the working hours and the machines and preparation material costs? That stuff is so cheap, cause the preparators are doing it by their selves. Think to the cut and polishing loss. You see how crumbly your Lunar is. What for a cut loss you'd have, if you would cut slices and expertly polish them as it is standard among the collectors. Stones and irons 20-30%... Reduces again your profit. And look what else they're doing - that basical work of growing and instructing new collectors, customer service, they organize exhibitions or give their best pieces on loan to exhibitions for free (where each art collector would get a fine sum), they are writing books, giving lessons, go into schools, they spread knowledge in the newspapers and on TV, All that basic work. O.k. - that all are doing many collectors too - but did you so too? Or they bring you the stones to the shows. I'm not so sure, whether your revenue from the piece of lunar at the end would be sufficient to pay 2 weeks as an exhibitor in Tucson or to have a stall at the Munich or Tokyo show. And see what they're nevertheless doing, the so greedy big dealers, they tinker even from their most exciting finds small servings, that each and every collector now matter how limited their budgets are, can participate. You see what Farmer, the Hupes, we are doing - seen only the efforts and costs all these Micros 1g, 2g pieces, these 2-50$ polished slices are in fact a loss for them or at best not profitable. But they offer them additionally for everybody being able to enjoy that hobby. Well and at the end - they do this all often alone as one-man-shows. Hence keeping that all in mind, you'll recognize that it was somewhat easy for you to start acting as big Robin Hood and to play the Hero. (In fact a professional dealer, if he would buy at your purchase price and would resell at your selling price, would earn a lot less than you). Cause seen these conditions, it's anyway astonishing, that professional dealers are all in all not more expensive than hobby-sellers or not so seldom even cheaper. And anyway I can't understand your anger. Would you scream blue murder in a mechanics forum too, cause in some cases you would be able to fix your car by your own? Would you suspect the members of a baker's mailing-list to be extortioners, cause if necessary you would be able to make a bread by yourself? See. If it's accepted as absolutely normal that such professions are paid for their services, wouldn't it be a matter of course, that meteorite dealers would be paid in a fair manner too to appreciate their performance? A profession btw, which I suspect to be more difficult than others, cause if it would be so easy as you think it is, I guess we would have in each major town and in each second mall a specialized meteorite shop... Well and you're experienced it now by your own, that it's not that easy with selling meteorites, in getting frustrated, that noone seemed to have directly been waiting for buying that lunar at 1000$/g from you. (O.k. collector-sized slices - slices and not fragments were here and there offered at 1250$/g too, hence seen the cut loss your offer wasn't that sensational - and in general you had bad luck, cause you hadn't checked the archives before, where a Moroccan had offered that lunar in big chunks at 500$/g to the list). But in general also the sale of meteorites has a lot to do with courtesy, mutual respect and trust, likewise the whole meteorite community is shaped and ruled by these values. That after your behaviour here on the list, the dealers and experienced colletors weren't be eager to share their experiences and knowledge with you, isn't surprising, because there are friendlier people and newcomers to deal with. And that the meteorite scene isn't that evil as you might have thought, you just experienced today, where several of those, who you suspected before to be dishonest, even took the time to answer you and others already offered you assistance in learning how to hunt for meteorites. I don't know, it is a banality that a correct behaviour and a certain courtesy is the fundament for a friendly cooperation and relationship. With your rantings you hadn't made yourself directly friends, neither such things are well and truly (and note, that we never made an issue out of it). http://kuerzer.de/Cattplag vs http://kuerzer.de/ChladOrg But now, I'm sure, you'll make it better. Why I'm writing that all to the list, where I guess most know that all, and not to you privately... Because I have uncomfortable feelings. Perhaps it's only because I'm starting to get senile. But among the youngest generation of collectors of the last 1-3 years, at least to me it seems so, there are many so aggressive. So many angry young men. Not only in USA, everywhere else too. And I don't know why. They rage against the system, where there is no system. Everywhere they smell a conspiracy. (The dealers conspiracy, the hunters conspiracy, the ebay-seller conspiracy, the veteran collectors conspiracy, the Moroccan conspiracy, the scientist conspiracy, the IMCA-conspiracy....). And I don't understand, why they then collect meteorites at all, if it makes them so angry? Most of the collectors want to have in their meteorites an equilibrium to their hard daily routine. Meteorites are a source of joy for them. Nourishment for their curiosity, for their aesthetical sensation, occasion for occupying with the universe, with history, with science or also very concrete to work on them in cutting, preparing or even to go for a hunt out in nature.. ...the reasons for them to collect are manifold. But if the only joy I get from meteorites should be the satisfaction to have bought a stone cheaper than my fellow-collector, to make some bucks in selling stones, to find a valve to let out my aggressions in ranting about each and everybody and to listen to and to spread nasty gossip, then I would say, that for these purposes, meteorites aren't directly necessary. That kind of occupation one can have in any other field too and easier I guess too. Huh, back to the new fall. History is fine. Greg, perhaps, if you find a little time, you could search a little bit on internet about the history of Gold Basin and the unforgotten Jim Kriegh. Than you will see, that that, what happens now with the new fall is nothing to bristle about or to be worried. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Catterton Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juli 2009 05:49 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall - detailed... I will break this down some... > Greg, you seem to have a good heart, but you are coming off as very nasty.> Thanks, I do have a good heart, and I dont want to come off as nasty - its hard to get your points across how you want them to be on the internet. > We make a living at this, now you are selling meteorites and gloating and throwing sand in the eyes of the "big dealers" on prices. Do you think this will help your chances?> I sell meteorites only to help to pay for my collection. When dealers sell stuff like ordinary chondrites for $100 per gram, unless you are rich, you all but have to sell if you want samples of the new falls. I know what I pay for Lunar, and when I see others charging what they do, it makes me wonder - I am just lucky to get it for what I do or do the dealers really want to make that much off the collectors? I do not want to throw sand or gloat, but I do speak what I think. It may not always come off like I want it to, but I wont hold my tounge when I have something to say. As far as my chances, I had nasty emails over what I was selling lunar for, have been turned down many many times when I have asked for help and ideas, I dont think my chances from the well known group like you are in were good to begin with - as you said, why help out the competion? >I am really not interested in training my competition, so I am not too keen to take people with me. This is not meant to be mean, but common sense.> Did Bob Haag not help you out? From what I have read and understand, he did alot. Correct me if I am wrong. I am far from competition to you, nor would I ever really want to be. As I said, I only sell to help pay for my personal collection - So I sell a few things from time to time... look at my ebay record, then look at yours. Its a struggle for me to come up with enough material to get a power seller status to get a discount for fees! I have really been into the meteorite hobby for 3 years, how long have you been into it? If you consider me copetition, I take that as an impressive compliment! I was not able to make it to west, my wife was in her last weeks of Nursing school (she passed and is now an official RN!!) and I now have more time to put into meteorites. I knew you were kind enough to help a few then, I did not understand why not now. I am eager to learn from the guys like you who for better or worse are well known and who I thought would be great menotrs of sorts... When I am constantly turned down while seeking to better myself and my knowlege on meteorites, it is frusterating as many claim to be in it for the benifit of science and learning - yet are unwilling to really help someone who wants to learn how to do it right. I can read books all day long (which I do) but when it comes to in the field learning and hands on, books dont do it. so, to rap up this book, I am sorry if I have offended anyone, it was not my intent. I just think that some of the people out there should remember when they were new at this and how much they wanted to learn and take part in things and consider that when someone asks to help out. I would have been happy just being there and learning about the aspects of the hunt and documentaion - even if I came back empty handed, the trip would have been worth it to me from the experience I would have gained from it. Instead, I am now a collector who is really considering walking away from meteorites due to what I feel is an exclusive group who is unwilling to allow someone like me who honestly wants to learn from you all to take part. Yes, I can do it on my own, but I would rather learn from people who know what they are doing and learn how to do it right instead of blindly stumbling along before I get it right. Hope everyone is good and had a safe 4th of July. Greg C. --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Greg Catterton" > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 10:30 PM > > Greg, you seem to have a good heart, but you are coming off > as very nasty. > Just go hunt, I learned on my own, most people learn by > doing. My first real fall was Monahans, then months later > Portales, I learned on the spot, alone, it was every man for > himself. > We make a living at this, now you are selling meteorites > and gloating and throwing sand in the eyes of the "big > dealers" on prices. Do you think this will help your > chances? Come on, I spent ~$50,000 a year on hunts, and let > me tell you, I must recoup this in sales, or I will be > living in a cardboard box. Your emails harping on overpriced > dealers are not falling on deaf ears. Go ahead, do a hunt > yourself, see what the costs are for stones found, and you > would find that most in West lost money, even those who > found stones! > Get over it, take a chance, do it. I am really not > interested in training my competition, so I am not too keen > to take people with me. This is not meant to be mean, but > common sense. > Michael Farmer > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Greg Catterton > wrote: > > > From: Greg Catterton > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the > Arizona Fall > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 8:25 PM > > > > Im glad you seem to understand where I am coming from, > this > > was not meant as an attack, just my frustration at not > being > > able to join in on what I would consider a great > learning > > experience. > > When I was told it was being kept secret, I felt > pretty > > upset at the fact that it seemed to be that something > of a > > high scholl clique only type thing. > > I am newer at this and want to take up as many things > like > > this as I can to better learn and understand things > and > > thought with the gorup out there currently, I could > learn > > alot while contributing in a good manner. > > > > I have asked many hunters to tag along on trips, > becouse I > > dont know how to do it and really want to learn. each > time I > > have been told no. > > > > I want to learn how to do this right and if none of > these > > guys are willing to help me out or anyone else who > wants to > > learn how to do it right, why should I even stay in > this > > hobby? > > > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Jack Schrader > > wrote: > > > > > From: Jack Schrader > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the > Arizona > > Fall > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:35 PM > > > > > > Dear list members. > > > > > > I have today received an email from a person. > He > > sent the > > > message to the list and not to me personally so > you > > already > > > know who this person is. If he had sent the > message > > to me > > > personally, I would have treated it with > complete > > > confidentiality. I feel that it is important > to > > share the > > > information I shared with him with the members > of > > this > > > list. Most of the people on this list have > been > > involved > > > with the science of meteorites for many years > and > > have > > > already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can > only > > come > > > from years of experience. This list has been > very > > fortunate > > > to have been joined by people who are new to the > > science and > > > to the wonderful hobby of collecting > meteorites. His > > email > > > was not sent to be malicious but was sent out of > > frustration > > > and out of his enthusiastic desire to be able to > look > > for a > > > new meteorite and to actually find one for > himself.. > > These > > > people who hold this intense enthusiasm are the > people > > we > > > need in this science, this > > > hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to > > venture out, > > > find and be the first one to touch a stone that > > acually fell > > > to earth from space. I have copied the > information I > > sent > > > to him below. I hope others who are > experiencing > > similar > > > feelings of frustration at the present time will > > benefit > > > from this as well. > > > > > > > > > Hello. This fall is a very rare, a very > important > > and > > > historic fall for this state and for the > University > > of > > > Arizona in particular as the site is very > literally in > > their > > > own back yard. It is vitally important that the > area > > be > > > protected for only as long as it takes to > properly > > record > > > and document the fall. I have seen what happens > to > > an area > > > when the location is announced publicly too > early. > > The > > > area is almost immediately deluged and over run > with > > not > > > only the true professional meteorite hunters who > are > > > actually trying to do something good and recover > the > > stones > > > properly with GPS coordinates and photographic > > evidence of > > > the stones in situ but with every treasure seeker > and > > rock > > > hunter and curiosity seeker who could care less > about > > the > > > science but more about simply having something > cool to > > show > > > off to their friends. This is okay too and > there is > > > absolutely nothing wrong with this but right now > is > > not the > > > time for this. This area is presently > > > pristine and kin to a very delicate > > archaeological site. > > > The archaeologists need to do the proper work in > the > > area > > > before the "pot > > > hunters" find it and destroy any information > that > > could > > > otherwise be learned from the site. My > intention is > > > certainly not simply just for the money or the > stones > > that > > > can be recovered. When you really give this > some > > thought, > > > you will realize that I did not have to tell a > single > > soul > > > about this. I discovered this remote area > entirely > > on my > > > own using the knowledge that I have gained over > many > > years > > > of hunting meteorites. I could have very easily > kept > > this > > > site to myself and hunted it for months and > months. > > But > > > the path I chose was simply to do the right > thing. I > > made > > > a proper announcement and I have begun > preparations > > for > > > conducting a proper search and recording of the > fall > > site. > > > Please do not worry. You will get your > opportunity > > to hunt > > > the area. There will be stones in this area to > be > > > recovered for years to come and you will find > yours. > > And > > > they will be free, you will not have to buy > > anything. The > > > area as any area where meteorite have > > > fallen either in recent or in ancient times is > > impossible > > > to > > > hunt out completely. I am just simply asking > for a > > little > > > time that it takes to be able to properly record > this > > fall > > > site so the information may be available to the > > University > > > of Arizona and to any other institutions and > > meteoriticists > > > in the world who may have an interest in the work > that > > we > > > will be doing. It is too important to risk > > destroying the > > > information at this point not only for the > science > > that can > > > be gained from the area but for the generations > to > > come who > > > may have an interest in learning more about the > > dynamics of > > > meteors and the variety of strewn field types > that > > they > > > create. I do appreciate your understanding. > My > > very best > > > wishes, Dr. Jack Schrader > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dave at fallingrocks.com Mon Jul 6 21:14:49 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 21:14:49 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Old men say to Greg C. was Arizona Fall-detailed... In-Reply-To: <4215A0605DE34C92AB24D4B90CBE0AF4@StarmanPC> References: <208937.61663.qm@web46404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><005501c9fe62$51ced790$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <4215A0605DE34C92AB24D4B90CBE0AF4@StarmanPC> Message-ID: <6B8EFA5927D04D2989D0E196BEE553CE@meteorroom> Al, Martin & All, Ditto, Al. Terrific post, Martin...very much worth the read, and thank you for the time spent in writing it. Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of al mitt Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 8:16 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Cc: Martin Altmann Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Old men say to Greg C. was Arizona Fall-detailed... Hi Martin and all, Very well put and something we all should save and read a couple of times a year!! Your so many times right on with your thinking. --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:50 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Old men say to Greg C. was Arizona Fall -detailed... Hi Greg C. >I know what I pay for Lunar, and when I see others charging what they >do, it makes me wonder - I am just lucky to get it for what I do or do >the dealers really want to make that much off the collectors? >I do not want to throw sand or gloat, but I do speak what I think. Ya Greg, but you have to think before and to think a little bit further. Because I think, you disregard important parameters in your calculation. Seems that you're thinking - buying price minus selling price = profit. Which is somewhat short-sighted. Let's start with the most simple to understand: I don't know, are you paying taxes for your sales? Each "big" or professional dealer, who does his living with meteorites, has to do so. Don't know, I read somewhere, that the average tax&dues quota in USA would be smth around 30%. Plus here and there federal sales taxes. There are other countries, where the quota exceeds 50%. And maybe those professional dealers want to have a health insurance or even a pension plan like anybody in other professions has too? So the next point, perhaps not so easy to understand yet for you. A big dealer has to bring up permanently new material of rare types and new meteorites, the hunter in the field has to find permanently better stuff than the 90% ordinary chondrites, which are lying around, a fall chaser has to find pieces of the few falls per year at all, if they want to make a living from meteorites. So they have to work completely differently than you, who orders a few stones per year of already known (and in most cases known, because the hunters/dealers had them classified before) material from your armchair. And there we have a problem, Greg. Meteorites are by far the rarest stuff on Earth. A ruby, a world-class diamond, a dinosaur - no problem, a dealer can simply reorder, if he's running out - but with a new Lunar, a new Martian, ya even with a new eucrite - he can't. The professional hunters have to travel and to graze the fields week for week, hoping to find something better than an ordinary chondrite - look into the bulletins, how few achondrites were found in the US-deserts, how small the weight of all achondrites is, collected through more than 30 years in Antarctica, where the stones are especially easy to identify, or from that huge half of the continent covered by Sahara in the last 20 years. 100kgs of eucrites only from NWA, to give you a hint. And a fall hunter has to try his luck with the 7 or 10 falls per year. Ask the regular and best desert hunters in USA - we figured it already out on the list in former times, what for average find rates per hour they have, - the result is, that if they would like to live from their finds, it would be more rewarding and easier for them to tie around an apron and to get employed at a fast food instead. And the NWA-dealers - they have to travel to Morocco and have to try to identify new exiting stones. If the possible lunar turns later out to be an eucrite only or a terrestrial - bad luck, the money at stack is lost. That they have to compensate too. Other simply costs. You experienced it with your piece of the lunar - from your postings to the list, we heard that you got so insecure about the provenance or you weren't aware, that this material was already classified, that you almost - if not the nice members of the list, yes also big dealers, informed you, that it wouldn't be necessary - hence that you almost had reclassified that stuff at Ted Bunch again. That would have meant, that you'd have to give away 20% of your lunar for free, which again would have reduced your profit. You took advantage - as it is often with assumed pairings too - that others took the costs for classification. Yes it is true - the dealers do let classify their stones and if it's something so rare like a planetary, they do have to donate material of a retail value of 20 or 30k$. - and anyway most of the big dealers donate a lot more material of their finds than only the type & deposit specimens. Well more costs: You see the hunters in the deserts, the fall chasers, the NWA dealers, they all travel many months, half a year or more per year to get new finds for the collectors and researchers. That costs. We just read from Michael Farmer, that he has travel expenses per year of 50k$. That sum he has to earn! But just google around, what it would cost you, to buy a plane ticket to NWA wonderland, to rent a car, to spend several weeks there - and how many UNWAs or HEDs you would have to sell, to get only your travel costs back. And try to find there a new lunar or Martian - the odds you can figure out from the Bulletin database. Other costs. Transaction costs like paypal, ebay fees ect. you know by your own, But a dealer has to run a business, with all the costs for bureau, bookkeeping, advertising, machines, preparation costs and and and, Costs which an amateur seller doesn't has or not to that extend. Take only the iron preparators, how long does it take to completely slice down a 2kg Muonionalusta or a Campo, how long does it take to grind and to polish a hand sized slice to that perfect state and on both sides please, which allows an etching of that quality, which each collector does expect? How long does it take to stabilize and to preserve each slice at the state of art after etching? Have you an idea, how much such a slice would cost then, if you only would have to pay the minimum wage for the working hours and the machines and preparation material costs? That stuff is so cheap, cause the preparators are doing it by their selves. Think to the cut and polishing loss. You see how crumbly your Lunar is. What for a cut loss you'd have, if you would cut slices and expertly polish them as it is standard among the collectors. Stones and irons 20-30%... Reduces again your profit. And look what else they're doing - that basical work of growing and instructing new collectors, customer service, they organize exhibitions or give their best pieces on loan to exhibitions for free (where each art collector would get a fine sum), they are writing books, giving lessons, go into schools, they spread knowledge in the newspapers and on TV, All that basic work. O.k. - that all are doing many collectors too - but did you so too? Or they bring you the stones to the shows. I'm not so sure, whether your revenue from the piece of lunar at the end would be sufficient to pay 2 weeks as an exhibitor in Tucson or to have a stall at the Munich or Tokyo show. And see what they're nevertheless doing, the so greedy big dealers, they tinker even from their most exciting finds small servings, that each and every collector now matter how limited their budgets are, can participate. You see what Farmer, the Hupes, we are doing - seen only the efforts and costs all these Micros 1g, 2g pieces, these 2-50$ polished slices are in fact a loss for them or at best not profitable. But they offer them additionally for everybody being able to enjoy that hobby. Well and at the end - they do this all often alone as one-man-shows. Hence keeping that all in mind, you'll recognize that it was somewhat easy for you to start acting as big Robin Hood and to play the Hero. (In fact a professional dealer, if he would buy at your purchase price and would resell at your selling price, would earn a lot less than you). Cause seen these conditions, it's anyway astonishing, that professional dealers are all in all not more expensive than hobby-sellers or not so seldom even cheaper. And anyway I can't understand your anger. Would you scream blue murder in a mechanics forum too, cause in some cases you would be able to fix your car by your own? Would you suspect the members of a baker's mailing-list to be extortioners, cause if necessary you would be able to make a bread by yourself? See. If it's accepted as absolutely normal that such professions are paid for their services, wouldn't it be a matter of course, that meteorite dealers would be paid in a fair manner too to appreciate their performance? A profession btw, which I suspect to be more difficult than others, cause if it would be so easy as you think it is, I guess we would have in each major town and in each second mall a specialized meteorite shop... Well and you're experienced it now by your own, that it's not that easy with selling meteorites, in getting frustrated, that noone seemed to have directly been waiting for buying that lunar at 1000$/g from you. (O.k. collector-sized slices - slices and not fragments were here and there offered at 1250$/g too, hence seen the cut loss your offer wasn't that sensational - and in general you had bad luck, cause you hadn't checked the archives before, where a Moroccan had offered that lunar in big chunks at 500$/g to the list). But in general also the sale of meteorites has a lot to do with courtesy, mutual respect and trust, likewise the whole meteorite community is shaped and ruled by these values. That after your behaviour here on the list, the dealers and experienced colletors weren't be eager to share their experiences and knowledge with you, isn't surprising, because there are friendlier people and newcomers to deal with. And that the meteorite scene isn't that evil as you might have thought, you just experienced today, where several of those, who you suspected before to be dishonest, even took the time to answer you and others already offered you assistance in learning how to hunt for meteorites. I don't know, it is a banality that a correct behaviour and a certain courtesy is the fundament for a friendly cooperation and relationship. With your rantings you hadn't made yourself directly friends, neither such things are well and truly (and note, that we never made an issue out of it). http://kuerzer.de/Cattplag vs http://kuerzer.de/ChladOrg But now, I'm sure, you'll make it better. Why I'm writing that all to the list, where I guess most know that all, and not to you privately... Because I have uncomfortable feelings. Perhaps it's only because I'm starting to get senile. But among the youngest generation of collectors of the last 1-3 years, at least to me it seems so, there are many so aggressive. So many angry young men. Not only in USA, everywhere else too. And I don't know why. They rage against the system, where there is no system. Everywhere they smell a conspiracy. (The dealers conspiracy, the hunters conspiracy, the ebay-seller conspiracy, the veteran collectors conspiracy, the Moroccan conspiracy, the scientist conspiracy, the IMCA-conspiracy....). And I don't understand, why they then collect meteorites at all, if it makes them so angry? Most of the collectors want to have in their meteorites an equilibrium to their hard daily routine. Meteorites are a source of joy for them. Nourishment for their curiosity, for their aesthetical sensation, occasion for occupying with the universe, with history, with science or also very concrete to work on them in cutting, preparing or even to go for a hunt out in nature.. ...the reasons for them to collect are manifold. But if the only joy I get from meteorites should be the satisfaction to have bought a stone cheaper than my fellow-collector, to make some bucks in selling stones, to find a valve to let out my aggressions in ranting about each and everybody and to listen to and to spread nasty gossip, then I would say, that for these purposes, meteorites aren't directly necessary. That kind of occupation one can have in any other field too and easier I guess too. Huh, back to the new fall. History is fine. Greg, perhaps, if you find a little time, you could search a little bit on internet about the history of Gold Basin and the unforgotten Jim Kriegh. Than you will see, that that, what happens now with the new fall is nothing to bristle about or to be worried. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Catterton Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juli 2009 05:49 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall - detailed... I will break this down some... > Greg, you seem to have a good heart, but you are coming off as very nasty.> Thanks, I do have a good heart, and I dont want to come off as nasty - its hard to get your points across how you want them to be on the internet. > We make a living at this, now you are selling meteorites and gloating and throwing sand in the eyes of the "big dealers" on prices. Do you think this will help your chances?> I sell meteorites only to help to pay for my collection. When dealers sell stuff like ordinary chondrites for $100 per gram, unless you are rich, you all but have to sell if you want samples of the new falls. I know what I pay for Lunar, and when I see others charging what they do, it makes me wonder - I am just lucky to get it for what I do or do the dealers really want to make that much off the collectors? I do not want to throw sand or gloat, but I do speak what I think. It may not always come off like I want it to, but I wont hold my tounge when I have something to say. As far as my chances, I had nasty emails over what I was selling lunar for, have been turned down many many times when I have asked for help and ideas, I dont think my chances from the well known group like you are in were good to begin with - as you said, why help out the competion? >I am really not interested in training my competition, so I am not too >keen to take people with me. This is not meant to be mean, but common sense.> Did Bob Haag not help you out? From what I have read and understand, he did alot. Correct me if I am wrong. I am far from competition to you, nor would I ever really want to be. As I said, I only sell to help pay for my personal collection - So I sell a few things from time to time... look at my ebay record, then look at yours. Its a struggle for me to come up with enough material to get a power seller status to get a discount for fees! I have really been into the meteorite hobby for 3 years, how long have you been into it? If you consider me copetition, I take that as an impressive compliment! I was not able to make it to west, my wife was in her last weeks of Nursing school (she passed and is now an official RN!!) and I now have more time to put into meteorites. I knew you were kind enough to help a few then, I did not understand why not now. I am eager to learn from the guys like you who for better or worse are well known and who I thought would be great menotrs of sorts... When I am constantly turned down while seeking to better myself and my knowlege on meteorites, it is frusterating as many claim to be in it for the benifit of science and learning - yet are unwilling to really help someone who wants to learn how to do it right. I can read books all day long (which I do) but when it comes to in the field learning and hands on, books dont do it. so, to rap up this book, I am sorry if I have offended anyone, it was not my intent. I just think that some of the people out there should remember when they were new at this and how much they wanted to learn and take part in things and consider that when someone asks to help out. I would have been happy just being there and learning about the aspects of the hunt and documentaion - even if I came back empty handed, the trip would have been worth it to me from the experience I would have gained from it. Instead, I am now a collector who is really considering walking away from meteorites due to what I feel is an exclusive group who is unwilling to allow someone like me who honestly wants to learn from you all to take part. Yes, I can do it on my own, but I would rather learn from people who know what they are doing and learn how to do it right instead of blindly stumbling along before I get it right. Hope everyone is good and had a safe 4th of July. Greg C. --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Greg Catterton" > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 10:30 PM > > Greg, you seem to have a good heart, but you are coming off as very > nasty. > Just go hunt, I learned on my own, most people learn by doing. My > first real fall was Monahans, then months later Portales, I learned on > the spot, alone, it was every man for himself. > We make a living at this, now you are selling meteorites and gloating > and throwing sand in the eyes of the "big dealers" on prices. Do you > think this will help your chances? Come on, I spent ~$50,000 a year on > hunts, and let me tell you, I must recoup this in sales, or I will be > living in a cardboard box. Your emails harping on overpriced dealers > are not falling on deaf ears. Go ahead, do a hunt yourself, see what > the costs are for stones found, and you would find that most in West > lost money, even those who found stones! > Get over it, take a chance, do it. I am really not interested in > training my competition, so I am not too keen to take people with me. > This is not meant to be mean, but common sense. > Michael Farmer > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Greg Catterton > wrote: > > > From: Greg Catterton > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the > Arizona Fall > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 8:25 PM > > > > Im glad you seem to understand where I am coming from, > this > > was not meant as an attack, just my frustration at not > being > > able to join in on what I would consider a great > learning > > experience. > > When I was told it was being kept secret, I felt > pretty > > upset at the fact that it seemed to be that something > of a > > high scholl clique only type thing. > > I am newer at this and want to take up as many things > like > > this as I can to better learn and understand things > and > > thought with the gorup out there currently, I could > learn > > alot while contributing in a good manner. > > > > I have asked many hunters to tag along on trips, > becouse I > > dont know how to do it and really want to learn. each > time I > > have been told no. > > > > I want to learn how to do this right and if none of > these > > guys are willing to help me out or anyone else who > wants to > > learn how to do it right, why should I even stay in > this > > hobby? > > > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Jack Schrader > > wrote: > > > > > From: Jack Schrader > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the > Arizona > > Fall > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:35 PM > > > > > > Dear list members. > > > > > > I have today received an email from a person. > He > > sent the > > > message to the list and not to me personally so > you > > already > > > know who this person is. If he had sent the > message > > to me > > > personally, I would have treated it with > complete > > > confidentiality. I feel that it is important > to > > share the > > > information I shared with him with the members > of > > this > > > list. Most of the people on this list have > been > > involved > > > with the science of meteorites for many years > and > > have > > > already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can > only > > come > > > from years of experience. This list has been > very > > fortunate > > > to have been joined by people who are new to the > > science and > > > to the wonderful hobby of collecting > meteorites. His > > email > > > was not sent to be malicious but was sent out of > > frustration > > > and out of his enthusiastic desire to be able to > look > > for a > > > new meteorite and to actually find one for > himself.. > > These > > > people who hold this intense enthusiasm are the > people > > we > > > need in this science, this > > > hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to > > venture out, > > > find and be the first one to touch a stone that > > acually fell > > > to earth from space. I have copied the > information I > > sent > > > to him below. I hope others who are > experiencing > > similar > > > feelings of frustration at the present time will > > benefit > > > from this as well. > > > > > > > > > Hello. This fall is a very rare, a very > important > > and > > > historic fall for this state and for the > University > > of > > > Arizona in particular as the site is very > literally in > > their > > > own back yard. It is vitally important that the > area > > be > > > protected for only as long as it takes to > properly > > record > > > and document the fall. I have seen what happens > to > > an area > > > when the location is announced publicly too > early. > > The > > > area is almost immediately deluged and over run > with > > not > > > only the true professional meteorite hunters who > are > > > actually trying to do something good and recover > the > > stones > > > properly with GPS coordinates and photographic > > evidence of > > > the stones in situ but with every treasure seeker > and > > rock > > > hunter and curiosity seeker who could care less > about > > the > > > science but more about simply having something > cool to > > show > > > off to their friends. This is okay too and > there is > > > absolutely nothing wrong with this but right now > is > > not the > > > time for this. This area is presently pristine and kin to a very > > > delicate > > archaeological site. > > > The archaeologists need to do the proper work in > the > > area > > > before the "pot > > > hunters" find it and destroy any information > that > > could > > > otherwise be learned from the site. My > intention is > > > certainly not simply just for the money or the > stones > > that > > > can be recovered. When you really give this > some > > thought, > > > you will realize that I did not have to tell a > single > > soul > > > about this. I discovered this remote area > entirely > > on my > > > own using the knowledge that I have gained over > many > > years > > > of hunting meteorites. I could have very easily > kept > > this > > > site to myself and hunted it for months and > months. > > But > > > the path I chose was simply to do the right > thing. I > > made > > > a proper announcement and I have begun > preparations > > for > > > conducting a proper search and recording of the > fall > > site. > > > Please do not worry. You will get your > opportunity > > to hunt > > > the area. There will be stones in this area to > be > > > recovered for years to come and you will find > yours. > > And > > > they will be free, you will not have to buy > > anything. The > > > area as any area where meteorite have fallen either in recent or > > > in ancient times is > > impossible > > > to > > > hunt out completely. I am just simply asking > for a > > little > > > time that it takes to be able to properly record > this > > fall > > > site so the information may be available to the > > University > > > of Arizona and to any other institutions and > > meteoriticists > > > in the world who may have an interest in the work > that > > we > > > will be doing. It is too important to risk > > destroying the > > > information at this point not only for the > science > > that can > > > be gained from the area but for the generations > to > > come who > > > may have an interest in learning more about the > > dynamics of > > > meteors and the variety of strewn field types > that > > they > > > create. I do appreciate your understanding. > My > > very best > > > wishes, Dr. Jack Schrader > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dave at fallingrocks.com Mon Jul 6 21:50:46 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 21:50:46 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone haveinfo on these? (or specimens?) In-Reply-To: References: <23600EB234CE4ED0ABCF461EB2C981A8@meteorroom> Message-ID: <05D5AF216F9F46578C956493DDC10D39@meteorroom> Thanks much, Michael. Take care, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: Michael Blood [mailto:mlblood at cox.net] Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 5:19 PM To: Dave Gheesling; 'Galactic Stone & Ironworks'; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone haveinfo on these? (or specimens?) Thanks, Dave, I have had L'Aigle on my hammer page since you Told me about it being a hammer. Very cool - of course, Your specimen is THE too cool L'Aigle! Best wishes, Michael On 7/6/09 12:55 PM, "Dave Gheesling" wrote: > Mike/All, > > The boy in Mbale was photographed with the small stone in his hand and > was also in some video footage taken at the time of the fall by the Dutch group. > Both can be seen here: > http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/Mbale.htm, > but I gather that no one knows where that 3 gram stone is today. > > Jean Baptiste-Biot also recorded testimony from a man who claimed to > have been struck in the arm by a L'Aigle stone. Given the veracity, > worldwide acceptance and historic nature of his report, there's > probably a better than average chance it's true, but we'll never know. Some info here: > http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/L'Aigle.htm. > > All best, > > Dave > > www.fallingrocks.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > Galactic Stone & Ironworks > Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 12:19 PM > To: Meteorite List > Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone > haveinfo on these? (or specimens?) > > Hi List and Hammer Fans, > > (MC Hammer fans please skip this post - this is about Hammer > Meteorites, not > rappers) > > While reading through Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites last night, I > ran across some entries that describe possible hammer falls. I was > wondering if someone here on the List might have more information > about them, or possibly a specimen (or photo). > > Mbale - everyone knows it's a hammer because it struck many buildings. > > But, the entry in the Catalogue of Mets states - "...The stones hit > several buildings, but nobody was hurt, although a young boy was > apparently hit on the head..." > > It then goes on to say that an expedition by the Dutch Meteor Society > investigated the fall and documented 48 impact locations. Did they > (or > anyone) investigate the claim of the boy being hit on the head? > Since everyone refers to Sylacauga as the only meteorite documented to > strike a human being in modern times, then I am I right to assume that > the Mbale boy was debunked or never proven? > > ... > > Mhow (yes, I was reading through the M's!) - Mhow is an obscure L6 > fall from India. On Feb 16, 1827 at 15:00 hrs local time, 4 or 5 > stones fell and that one struck a tree and another wounded a man. > This was an L6 chondrite. Was this claim ever investigated at any > time? > > ... > > Neagari - Feb 18, 1995 Japanese fall, L6 chondrite. The Catalogue of > Mets states : > > "...The next morning, in the city of Neagari, Mr. K. Sasatani found a > hole in the boot of his car and meteorite fragments were on and inside the boot." > > For those of us West of the Big Pond, a car boot is a car trunk. ;) > > I guess it doesn't matter if this claim was substantiated or not > because the finder owns the entire main mass and only a small type > specimen exists at the Tokyo Museum. So this one is unattainable - > unless someone wants to offer Mr. Sasatani some sake and loosen him up > to an offer. ;) > > ... > > I'm sure I'll run across more of these as I make my way through the > Catalogue. > > Best regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 22:05:31 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 19:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] PA July 6 Fireball Ground plot update Message-ID: <456858.66337.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I have hand plotted 16 or so AMS reports on a printed map after assigning place marks in Google Earth. One might look at all the reports and wonder if they were looking at the same fireball. Of those, 11 are cleanly plottable, several have glaring holes in them but were partially plotted for backup. Two(2) witnesses report the fireball seen south of Baltimore and DC. e.g I believe they saw the fireball but were totally misoriented on direction, their start and stops are going in the wrong direction. When flipped 180* they fit other observations,but treated skeptically in that we really don't know which way they were looking. (NOTE for fireball chasers: This is where a field investigator goes on a ground interview and has the witness reconstruct the setting and he actually measures the directions with an inclinomenter and compass to improve the quality of the accuracy of the data) The best preliminary "fit" ,based on AMS filed fireball reports and, NOT including the concentration of ear witness /sonic boom reports vic. York, PA is: Thids fireball is inferred to have been moving close to EAST to WEST based on a moderately reliable passage point perpendicular to a NS gridline between Bel Air, MD and Fawn Grove, PA. This is is supported by a medium confidence eastward sighting from West of Hagerstown, MD. Maximum and probable terminus: a cluster of intersecting witness reports suggest that the fireball was still visible and moving briskly when passing over a gridline generally running NS between Westminster, MD and Hanover , PA. More outlying reports suggest that the fireball was yet visible along a gridline running NS between Mt Airy, MD and Gettysburg, PA. Given the sharp angle in one of the available photos and comparing it to other steep trajectory fireballs, this likely did not make it to Hagerstown and an incandesing fireball probably did not pass the gridline running through Fredrick and Thurmont, MD Depending on upper level winds and dark flight a meteoroid might travel 5 to 30 miles from extinction. Good new for a change on Eastern US fireballs-- This is largely level rural farmland with generous and polite native population that is more genteel. Maryland should by all demeanor have been a southern state. There were mentioned in some other reports of "extinguishing immediately after fragmenting" which I haven't revisited. Be it remembered this fireball was catching up to Earth at midnight and this would have had the effect of removing 15-17 kps from its approach speed, reducing ablation energies and improving chances that it dropped a meteorite. The ole disclaimer: This was a shake and bake assembly of an already course measure of bearing--cardinal compass points vs measured degrees of azimuth. Seen as far away as Washington DC is from New York City. Someone with experience and technical judgment could plot sonic boom reports to at least get a maximum distance since they did not necessarily include flash to bang time. Elton From pshugar at clearwire.net Mon Jul 6 22:21:22 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 21:21:22 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question?????? Message-ID: <7313046E50644376A5D78378BA567CEA@laptop> Should the new Az fireball --- now meteorites on the ground be located on BLM land, Does this mean that it can't be sold? If this is the case, may I please now request a small 1 or 2 gram free piece for my collection. I assume that I should at the least pay the postage and am willing to do that. Pete From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jul 6 23:30:58 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:30:58 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question?????? In-Reply-To: <7313046E50644376A5D78378BA567CEA@laptop> References: <7313046E50644376A5D78378BA567CEA@laptop> Message-ID: <25g555185smrhh5snuo9qqbmen61d8uqfu@4ax.com> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009 21:21:22 -0500, you wrote: >Should the new Az fireball --- now meteorites on the ground >be located on BLM land, Does this mean that it can't be sold? There are different pets, such as small green turtles (salmonella) and gerbils and ferrets (possible they can escape and breed like bunnyrabbits) that have at times been illegal to sell as pets in various states. So, when you buy a certain aquarium or cage, you get a free turtle (or gerbil, or ferret. I'm sure someone could come up with a nice, fancy, limited-edition display case commerating this fall-- with as a free bonus, a piece of the meteorite. :-) From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 22:28:11 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 19:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunting in one's own "backyard"? Message-ID: <6459.45923.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I want everyone to know that this wasn't a post to dissuade anyone from meteorite hunting and it in no means was a dig at Richard's post. I just took the opportunity to put into prespective how deep this hobby is and can be a life long quest for understanding. being tied into this list makes up for not having the time to do all the prep work. My frame of reference for following up fireballs is Europe and the eastern US which is a lot different than SW US desert and dry lake hunting--Cali, Nevada or Roosevelt County NM, etc. As I have already told Richard, I believe it to be a very different ball game out there. I have my approach but I kinda like the way Ruben does it also. He loads up the dog, metal detector, video camera... points the truck in a direction and drives until his internal gyro says stop here. After all who has had better success? If I recall correctly Steve Schoner, who found Glorietta Mtn spent how many years looking? By all means get out enjoy. Elton --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Richard Kowalski wrote: > From: Richard Kowalski > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunting in one's own "backyard"? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, mstreman53 at yahoo.com > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 5:44 PM > > Thanks Elton, > > I never meant to disparage those who work tirelessly > tracking down falls and find meteorites. I know a lot is > involved in the venture and admire the work that they do. > Especially when their work is scientifically rigorous and > they properly record the data from the fall as is happening > now with the fall near Tucson. > > I was curious if searching through farm rock piles might be > a viable search method for those would-be hunters that for > all the reasons you cite can't chase falls. There aren't > many farms here in southern Arizona, so I wasn't planning on > doing this myself. > > While I hope to be out in the field in the not too distant > future, I'll admit I'm way too soft to do what most of you > do. I prefer climbing into bed after a clear night at the > telescope. Finding 1 to 10 new Near Earth Asteroids per > night sounds a lot easier. > > Cheers > > -- > Richard Kowalski > Catalina Sky Survey > Lunar and Planetary Laboratory > University of Arizona > Tucson, AZ? 85721 > http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/css/ From Impactika at aol.com Mon Jul 6 23:00:30 2009 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 23:00:30 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - A lot of new Thin-Sections Message-ID: Hello List, Yes, I am back from Ensisheim. It was great seeing everybody there, as usual. Now I am hard at work updating my website. Since I have to start somewhere, I just cleaned up the Thin-Section Catalog. I added a whole bunch of new Thin-Sections, with great pictures of course. And since I really don't like deleting those pictures, I moved all the Sold pieces to the bottom of the page so you can still click on the Ref.# and see the pictures. Go take a look at: _http://www.impactika.com/TSlist.htm_ (http://www.impactika.com/TSlist.htm) And Enjoy. Next: The Meteorites Catalog. And some very rare historical pieces. And I just heard that another batch of Thin-sections will be coming soon. Maybe my new TS of Tagish will be in that one. Yes, Thin-Sections of Tagish Lake!. I finally got a piece big and solid enough to be cut in TS. It only took me 2 years. Thanks Erik! Any questions, just ask. Anne M. Black http://www.impactika.com/ IMPACTIKA at aol.com Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. http://www.imca.cc/ **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) From cynapse at charter.net Tue Jul 7 00:29:27 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 23:29:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive meteorite "collectable" In-Reply-To: <814451.44446.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <814451.44446.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Australian issued meteorite "coin": (mid list) http://www.prospectstampsandcoins.com.au/web/royal_aust_mint/2009_coins/index.html From grf2 at verizon.net Mon Jul 6 23:29:41 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 23:29:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: New Article: The meteorite collection in London Message-ID: <89707CA31F564309B2B3C5E2A378831C@ASUS> -------------------------------------------------- From: "PSRD" Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 8:45 PM To: Subject: New Article: The meteorite collection in London > Announcement from Planetary Science Research Discoveries [PSRD] > > New article online: Better Know A Meteorite Collection: Natural History > Museum in London, United Kingdom > > --------- > ILLUSTRATED ARTICLE at: > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/July09/Meteorites.London.Museum.html > --------- > > FIND ALL ARTICLES: > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Archive/Contents.html > --------- > > PSRD is an educational web site supported by NASA's SMD Cosmochemistry > Program and the Hawaii Space Grant Consortium to share the latest research > on meteorites, planets, moons, and other bodies in our Solar System. > > You are subscribed to our free mailing list. > We never send attachments. > For more information please see > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/PSRDsubscribe.html > > --------- > Jeff Taylor and Linda Martel > Hawaii Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, > University of Hawaii > psrd at higp.hawaii.edu > voice (808) 956-3899 > fax (808) 956-6322 > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon Jul 6 23:41:51 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 05:41:51 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive meteorite"collectable" In-Reply-To: References: <814451.44446.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00a801c9feb4$de5153d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> A medallion with Blinky Bill for you to engrave! ...aah, you mean the Campo coin? To complicate to order for me and you, because we would have to apply for an export permit first. (I hope the Royal Australian Mint knows about that problem). A lawyer could make fun in ordering such a coin and if he doesn't find any export permit icluded, he could incriminate the Australian Government/Royal Mint for illicit export of National Heritage... ....so stupid are these Aussie-laws. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Darren Garrison Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 06:29 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive meteorite"collectable" Australian issued meteorite "coin": (mid list) http://www.prospectstampsandcoins.com.au/web/royal_aust_mint/2009_coins/inde x.html ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jul 7 01:50:46 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (meteoriteguy at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2009 22:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD HUGE Ebay sale today. More than 70 one cent items. Message-ID: <155257.841.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Check out this beauty selling on ebay in a few hours. One of the best oriented Sikhote-Alin "Heat-shield" pieces I have sold in years, huge of flow lines on one side, so large you can cut yourself with them. The piece seems to have fragemented in flight, as the other side while sheared off, still shows overflow of crust. http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ140178080582 See all available items at the link below, there are way too many to list here. http://www.meteorite.com/farmer/ Keep me in the field, buy from my ebay sales and keep a hunter going. From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 07:45:13 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 07:45:13 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive meteorite"collectable" In-Reply-To: <00a801c9feb4$de5153d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <814451.44446.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <00a801c9feb4$de5153d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Hi Martin and List, Does anyone else find it ironic that the Aussies will put an Argentinian meteorite on their Australian coin? The Aussie government doesn't want it's own meteorites leaving it's borders in the hands of non-Aussie citizens, so they will take another nation's meteorites and use those instead. Talk about hypocritical. Talk about playing games with permits and laws. They should stick to Fosters beer. Best regards, MikeG On 7/6/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > A medallion with Blinky Bill for you to engrave! > > ...aah, you mean the Campo coin? > > To complicate to order for me and you, > because we would have to apply for an export permit first. > > (I hope the Royal Australian Mint knows about that problem). > > A lawyer could make fun in ordering such a coin and if he doesn't find any > export permit icluded, > he could incriminate the Australian Government/Royal Mint for illicit export > of National Heritage... > > ....so stupid are these Aussie-laws. > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Darren > Garrison > Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 06:29 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive > meteorite"collectable" > > Australian issued meteorite "coin": > > (mid list) > > http://www.prospectstampsandcoins.com.au/web/royal_aust_mint/2009_coins/inde > x.html > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Tue Jul 7 07:44:46 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 07:44:46 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 7, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_7_2009.html __________________________ **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) From thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr Tue Jul 7 03:06:17 2009 From: thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr (Philippe Thomas) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 09:06:17 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone haveinfo on these? (or specimens?) Message-ID: <28893524.94588.1246950377420.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f16> Dear Dave and List, In the report of Biot on the meteorite of L'Aigle, there is no mentionned that a person was hit by a stone. In its conclusion, Biot only says that one named Piche, an inhabitant from the village of Aun?es, Commune of Gloss, which worked outdoors at the time of the explosion: that a stone brushed (not strucked) his arm and fell at his feet, he wanted to pick it up but it was hot and he left it fallen quite frightened. Here is the original sentence in French: "...une pierre rasa le long de son bras, et tomba ? ses pieds ; il voulut la ramasser, mais elle ?tait br?lante , et il la laissa retomber tout effray?..." Further by speaking about stones, Biot said: We tell to have seen them going down along roofs, breaking branches of trees, spattering by falling on the pavement. We say that we saw the ground smoking around the biggest and that we held them hot in hands. Sorry if the translation isn't perfect. Best wishes, Philippe Mike/All, The boy in Mbale was photographed with the small stone in his hand and was also in some video footage taken at the time of the fall by the Dutch group. Both can be seen here: http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/Mbale.htm, but I gather that no one knows where that 3 gram stone is today. Jean Baptiste-Biot also recorded testimony from a man who claimed to have been struck in the arm by a L'Aigle stone. Given the veracity, worldwide acceptance and historic nature of his report, there's probably a better than average chance it's true, but we'll never know. Some info here: http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/L'Aigle.htm. All best, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic Stone & Ironworks Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 12:19 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone haveinfo on these? (or specimens?) Hi List and Hammer Fans, (MC Hammer fans please skip this post - this is about Hammer Meteorites, not rappers) While reading through Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites last night, I ran across some entries that describe possible hammer falls. I was wondering if someone here on the List might have more information about them, or possibly a specimen (or photo). Mbale - everyone knows it's a hammer because it struck many buildings. But, the entry in the Catalogue of Mets states - "...The stones hit several buildings, but nobody was hurt, although a young boy was apparently hit on the head..." It then goes on to say that an expedition by the Dutch Meteor Society investigated the fall and documented 48 impact locations. Did they (or anyone) investigate the claim of the boy being hit on the head? Since everyone refers to Sylacauga as the only meteorite documented to strike a human being in modern times, then I am I right to assume that the Mbale boy was debunked or never proven? ... Mhow (yes, I was reading through the M's!) - Mhow is an obscure L6 fall from India. On Feb 16, 1827 at 15:00 hrs local time, 4 or 5 stones fell and that one struck a tree and another wounded a man. This was an L6 chondrite. Was this claim ever investigated at any time? ... Neagari - Feb 18, 1995 Japanese fall, L6 chondrite. The Catalogue of Mets states : "...The next morning, in the city of Neagari, Mr. K. Sasatani found a hole in the boot of his car and meteorite fragments were on and inside the boot." For those of us West of the Big Pond, a car boot is a car trunk. ;) I guess it doesn't matter if this claim was substantiated or not because the finder owns the entire main mass and only a small type specimen exists at the Tokyo Museum. So this one is unattainable - unless someone wants to offer Mr. Sasatani some sake and loosen him up to an offer. ;) ... I'm sure I'll run across more of these as I make my way through the Catalogue. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. From thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr Tue Jul 7 08:44:31 2009 From: thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr (Philippe Thomas) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 14:44:31 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [meteorite-list] =?utf-8?q?R=C3=A9p_=3A__Lost_or_Unconfirmed_Hamm?= =?utf-8?q?er_Falls_-_Anyone_haveinfo_on_these=3F_=28or_specimens=3F=29?= Message-ID: <33384842.107233.1246970671093.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f12> Dear Dave and List, In the report of Biot on the meteorite of L'Aigle, there is no mentionned that a person was hit by a stone. In its conclusion, Biot only says that one named Piche, an inhabitant from the village of Aun?es, Commune of Gloss, which worked outdoors at the time of the explosion: that a stone brushed (not strucked) his arm and fell at his feet, he wanted to pick it up but it was hot and he left it fallen quite frightened. Here is the original sentence in French: "...une pierre rasa le long de son bras, et tomba ? ses pieds ; il voulut la ramasser, mais elle ?tait br?lante , et il la laissa retomber tout effray?..." Further by speaking about stones, Biot said: We tell to have seen them going down along roofs, breaking branches of trees, spattering by falling on the pavement. We say that we saw the ground smoking around the biggest and that we held them hot in hands. Sorry if the translation isn't perfect. Best wishes, Philippe Mike/All, The boy in Mbale was photographed with the small stone in his hand and was also in some video footage taken at the time of the fall by the Dutch group. Both can be seen here: http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/Mbale.htm, but I gather that no one knows where that 3 gram stone is today. Jean Baptiste-Biot also recorded testimony from a man who claimed to have been struck in the arm by a L'Aigle stone. Given the veracity, worldwide acceptance and historic nature of his report, there's probably a better than average chance it's true, but we'll never know. Some info here: http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/L'Aigle.htm. All best, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic Stone & Ironworks Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 12:19 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost or Unconfirmed Hammer Falls - Anyone haveinfo on these? (or specimens?) Hi List and Hammer Fans, (MC Hammer fans please skip this post - this is about Hammer Meteorites, not rappers) While reading through Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites last night, I ran across some entries that describe possible hammer falls. I was wondering if someone here on the List might have more information about them, or possibly a specimen (or photo). Mbale - everyone knows it's a hammer because it struck many buildings. But, the entry in the Catalogue of Mets states - "...The stones hit several buildings, but nobody was hurt, although a young boy was apparently hit on the head..." It then goes on to say that an expedition by the Dutch Meteor Society investigated the fall and documented 48 impact locations. Did they (or anyone) investigate the claim of the boy being hit on the head? Since everyone refers to Sylacauga as the only meteorite documented to strike a human being in modern times, then I am I right to assume that the Mbale boy was debunked or never proven? ... Mhow (yes, I was reading through the M's!) - Mhow is an obscure L6 fall from India. On Feb 16, 1827 at 15:00 hrs local time, 4 or 5 stones fell and that one struck a tree and another wounded a man. This was an L6 chondrite. Was this claim ever investigated at any time? ... Neagari - Feb 18, 1995 Japanese fall, L6 chondrite. The Catalogue of Mets states : "...The next morning, in the city of Neagari, Mr. K. Sasatani found a hole in the boot of his car and meteorite fragments were on and inside the boot." For those of us West of the Big Pond, a car boot is a car trunk. ;) I guess it doesn't matter if this claim was substantiated or not because the finder owns the entire main mass and only a small type specimen exists at the Tokyo Museum. So this one is unattainable - unless someone wants to offer Mr. Sasatani some sake and loosen him up to an offer. ;) ... I'm sure I'll run across more of these as I make my way through the Catalogue. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte. From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Tue Jul 7 10:23:52 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 16:23:52 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive meteorite"collectable" In-Reply-To: References: <814451.44446.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <00a801c9feb4$de5153d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <001b01c9ff0e$8e50e120$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> No, it shows only how exotic these laws are. I'm sure the "Australian Government" doesn't intentionally want to keep the Australian meteorites in Australia, I'm rather convinced that quite nobody in the Australian government is aware of that law at all, because normal people don't know about meteorites or care about at all. And you have to keep in mind, how such laws happen. The most probable scenario is, that there are a handful of curators or meteorite scientists, who express their wishes, that the national meteorites should be theirs or that they should end in their hands or what ever their motivation might be. No matter how thought-out their ideas are, and they are sitting in a committee or elsewhere they give the recommendation to the legislature, that meteorites do have to be protected. Legislature means: politicians and civil servants. Of course these people can't have any idea what a meteorite is, how they are found, how many do exist, what for a scientific or economical value they have or don't have and how they were exchanged between finders, museums, dealers, collectors in past. At best they have heard of artefacts, dinosaurs, resources - and know, that these other - in their eyes similar - objects, have to be protected and are of great importance - and anyway the proposal to protect meteorites comes from scientists, hence people, who are supposed to know about what they are talking, therefore they will always wave that petition through and will add the word "meteorites" into the relevant already existent laws. You see it in the Aussie-Natural-Heritage lists, there they simply added "meteorites", it would have been logic to add the Australian tektites too - they are much more valuable than that Henbury, Mundrabilla, Boxhole, Camel Donga, Millbillillie stuff and much more rare, but you don't find them there. There you can see how arbitrary that all is. Or think to Poland - in the last 70 years they had 4 (four) meteorites there - so I really doubt, that any politician would have seen an urgent need for action to create a law for meteorites - but they did, so bizarre or droll this may sound to you. Most probably because a panjandrum put a bug in a clerk's or politician's ear. Or because one from the latter felt for the usual rubbish in the newspapers, that meteorites would have a value of millions of dollars per stone and are trafficked and dealt by shady persons by thousands of tons on ominous black markets. So that they get alerted, to protect the thousands of tons and quadrillions of Zloty of their Polish meteorites (and to get a faster promotion). But! If once a word is added into a law, then it will be horribly difficult to remove it from there again. Look - nobody could have said anything about that experiment to protect meteorites in Australia. Now we can judge the results, because enough time has elapsed to see, what the impact of this laws were. Well and there everybody can see, that the law had a converse effect than initially intended: Much, much less meteorites are recovered and almost no Australian meteorites end up anymore in the Australian institutional collections and universities. Wait - I will look in the Bulletin Database. During the last 10 years - 1999-2009 2007: Bunburra Rockhole, EUC, tkw 324g - a Fall 2006: Eldee 001 L6, S3, W1-2 tkw 4.51kg, Eldee 002 L6-melt breccia, W2 tkw 101g Yaringie H6, tkw 5.75 kg 2003: Prospector Pool Iron, ungrouped tkw 2.77kg 2002: Myrtle Springs H4 tkw 53g (Hello Don!) 1999: Dunbogan L6 tkw 30g a Fall Reid 028 H6, W3 tkw 30g Makes up 8 (eight) meteorites. Australia has a total of 649 meteorites. And these, Ladies and Gentlemen, were the complete officially recorded new meteorites of the decade of a whole continent, a continent full of deserts. For you in USA, where no such laws exist, to compare: (I don't know, whether your deserts are of comparable size and so suitable for meteorites like the Australian deserts) But USA had in the same time: 1999-2009 officially recorded in the Bulletins: 282 new meteorites And USA has a total of 1576 meteorites. GIST OF THAT POSTING: ---> during the last 10 years 18% of all known US-meteorites were found ---> during the last 10 years 1% of all known Aussie-meteorites were found I use the percentage to exclude factors like population density, properties of the surface and size of overall surface.... So we see, there has to be done something. We here on the list are often only lousy laymen, even most of us not citizens of Australia, we have no influence on Australian legislation. But scientists pled for the laws, which led to the leakage of new Australian meteorites, so maybe scientists could pled for an amendment to these laws, for them finally getting meteorites to work with again. Therefore we all could ask Alex Bevan, Bill Birch, the McColls, Ross Pogson...all the Australian meteoricists - not to forget Caroline Smith, cause just yesterday here an article about London was shown, with the link to the blog where she went hunting in Australia, one of the few persons, who were looking for meteorites down-under at all, so she knows the situation too, and of course the Meteoritical Society, that they all perhaps will write at the end a memorandum to improve the sad situation in Australia and to find better laws. But also the other scientists should help their colleagues from down-under. Huh, once I was told by a list member, a German who had emigrated to Australia, that he would need even an export permit for his German meteorites from his collection, if he wants to bring them out of Australia. That's a perfect integration, I'd say, if the belongings of an immigrant get immediately National Heritage of Australia. But also somewhat weird. Uh imagine, if someone sends a suspected stone to Bevan to Australia and it will turn out and classified to be a meteorite. Then he has to apply for an export permit to get the stone back? Australia has so fine meteorites and had once such a meteorite tradition, the superb Wolf-Creek-Crater - well worth to have a meteorite or mineral fair there. But nobody from other countries will come with meteorites, cause the paper-warfare would be a mess. A not so theoretical question: The meteorite sellers in most cases have a return policy, which allows the buyers to send the specimens back, if they aren't fully satisfied. What one has to do, if that happens with an Australian collector? That all is so strange. But I think, it could be of importance, that Australia where the situation became so evident, that the laws disrupted almost fully new finds and meteorite research and where the scientists are very disappointed about the situation, would come to a more reasonable solution, because it could be a signal for other desert countries and maybe also for the few not yet so informed proponents and Luddites, who want to have similar laws there, to avoid such a disaster like had happened in Australia. Well happy finding, And greetings to Blinky Bill! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com] Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 13:45 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive meteorite"collectable" Hi Martin and List, Does anyone else find it ironic that the Aussies will put an Argentinian meteorite on their Australian coin? The Aussie government doesn't want it's own meteorites leaving it's borders in the hands of non-Aussie citizens, so they will take another nation's meteorites and use those instead. Talk about hypocritical. Talk about playing games with permits and laws. They should stick to Fosters beer. Best regards, MikeG On 7/6/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > A medallion with Blinky Bill for you to engrave! > > ...aah, you mean the Campo coin? > > To complicate to order for me and you, > because we would have to apply for an export permit first. > > (I hope the Royal Australian Mint knows about that problem). > > A lawyer could make fun in ordering such a coin and if he doesn't find any > export permit icluded, > he could incriminate the Australian Government/Royal Mint for illicit export > of National Heritage... > > ....so stupid are these Aussie-laws. > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Darren > Garrison > Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 06:29 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive > meteorite"collectable" > > Australian issued meteorite "coin": > > (mid list) > > http://www.prospectstampsandcoins.com.au/web/royal_aust_mint/2009_coins/inde > x.html > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 10:41:17 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 10:41:17 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive meteorite"collectable" In-Reply-To: <001b01c9ff0e$8e50e120$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <814451.44446.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <00a801c9feb4$de5153d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <001b01c9ff0e$8e50e120$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Hi Martin and List, Well analyzed Martin. Reading your posts on these matters is like receiving an education. Now if we could just get the governments in question to read this list and consider what Martin has written extensively on, then we might see a return to reason. It is in nobody's best interest to restrict the search for, discovery of, and trade of meteorites. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG On 7/7/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > No, > > it shows only how exotic these laws are. > > I'm sure the "Australian Government" doesn't intentionally want to keep the > Australian meteorites in Australia, > I'm rather convinced that quite nobody in the Australian government is aware > of that law at all, > because normal people don't know about meteorites or care about at all. > > And you have to keep in mind, how such laws happen. > The most probable scenario is, > that there are a handful of curators or meteorite scientists, who express > their wishes, that the national meteorites should be theirs or that they > should end in their hands or what ever their motivation might be. > No matter how thought-out their ideas are, > and they are sitting in a committee or elsewhere > they give the recommendation to the legislature, that meteorites do have to > be protected. > > Legislature means: politicians and civil servants. > Of course these people can't have any idea what a meteorite is, how they are > found, how many do exist, what for a scientific or economical value they > have or don't have and how they were exchanged between finders, museums, > dealers, collectors in past. > At best they have heard of artefacts, dinosaurs, resources - and know, that > these other - in their eyes similar - objects, have to be protected and are > of great importance - > and anyway the proposal to protect meteorites comes from scientists, hence > people, who are supposed to know about what they are talking, > therefore they will always wave that petition through > and will add the word "meteorites" into the relevant already existent laws. > > You see it in the Aussie-Natural-Heritage lists, > there they simply added "meteorites", > it would have been logic to add the Australian tektites too - they are much > more valuable than that Henbury, Mundrabilla, Boxhole, Camel Donga, > Millbillillie stuff and much more rare, but you don't find them there. > There you can see how arbitrary that all is. > > Or think to Poland - in the last 70 years they had 4 (four) meteorites there > - so I really doubt, that any politician would have seen an urgent need for > action to create a law for meteorites > - but they did, so bizarre or droll this may sound to you. > Most probably because a panjandrum put a bug in a clerk's or politician's > ear. Or because one from the latter felt for the usual rubbish in the > newspapers, that meteorites would have a value of millions of dollars per > stone and are trafficked and dealt by shady persons by thousands of tons on > ominous black markets. So that they get alerted, to protect the thousands of > tons and quadrillions of Zloty of their Polish meteorites > (and to get a faster promotion). > > > > But! If once a word is added into a law, > then it will be horribly difficult to remove it from there again. > > Look - nobody could have said anything about that experiment to protect > meteorites in Australia. > Now we can judge the results, because enough time has elapsed to see, what > the impact of this laws were. > > Well and there everybody can see, that the law had a converse effect than > initially intended: Much, much less meteorites are recovered and almost no > Australian meteorites end up anymore in the Australian institutional > collections and universities. > > Wait - I will look in the Bulletin Database. > > During the last 10 years - 1999-2009 > > 2007: Bunburra Rockhole, EUC, tkw 324g - a Fall > > 2006: Eldee 001 L6, S3, W1-2 tkw 4.51kg, > Eldee 002 L6-melt breccia, W2 tkw 101g > Yaringie H6, tkw 5.75 kg > > 2003: Prospector Pool Iron, ungrouped tkw 2.77kg > > 2002: Myrtle Springs H4 tkw 53g (Hello > Don!) > > 1999: Dunbogan L6 tkw 30g a Fall > Reid 028 H6, W3 tkw 30g > > Makes up 8 (eight) meteorites. > Australia has a total of 649 meteorites. > > > And these, Ladies and Gentlemen, were the complete officially recorded new > meteorites of the decade of a whole continent, a continent full of deserts. > > For you in USA, where no such laws exist, to compare: > (I don't know, whether your deserts are of comparable size and so suitable > for meteorites like the Australian deserts) > > But USA had in the same time: > 1999-2009 officially recorded in the Bulletins: > > 282 new meteorites > > And USA has a total of 1576 meteorites. > > GIST OF THAT POSTING: > > > > > ---> during the last 10 years 18% of all known US-meteorites were found > > ---> during the last 10 years 1% of all known Aussie-meteorites were found > > > > > > > > > I use the percentage to exclude factors like population density, properties > of the surface and size of overall surface.... > > So we see, there has to be done something. > > We here on the list are often only lousy laymen, even most of us not > citizens of Australia, we have no influence on Australian legislation. > > But scientists pled for the laws, which led to the leakage of new Australian > meteorites, so maybe scientists could pled for an amendment to these laws, > for them finally getting meteorites to work with again. > > Therefore we all could ask Alex Bevan, Bill Birch, the McColls, Ross > Pogson...all the Australian meteoricists - not to forget Caroline Smith, > cause just yesterday here an article about London was shown, with the link > to the blog where she went hunting in Australia, one of the few persons, who > were looking for meteorites down-under at all, so she knows the situation > too, > and of course the Meteoritical Society, > that they all perhaps will write at the end a memorandum to improve the sad > situation in Australia and to find better laws. > But also the other scientists should help their colleagues from down-under. > > > Huh, once I was told by a list member, a German who had emigrated to > Australia, that he would need even an export permit for his German > meteorites from his collection, if he wants to bring them out of Australia. > That's a perfect integration, I'd say, if the belongings of an immigrant get > immediately National Heritage of Australia. But also somewhat weird. > > Uh imagine, if someone sends a suspected stone to Bevan to Australia and it > will turn out and classified to be a meteorite. Then he has to apply for an > export permit to get the stone back? > > Australia has so fine meteorites and had once such a meteorite tradition, > the superb Wolf-Creek-Crater - well worth to have a meteorite or mineral > fair there. But nobody from other countries will come with meteorites, cause > the paper-warfare would be a mess. > > A not so theoretical question: > > The meteorite sellers in most cases have a return policy, which allows the > buyers to send the specimens back, if they aren't fully satisfied. > What one has to do, if that happens with an Australian collector? > > That all is so strange. > > But I think, it could be of importance, that Australia where the situation > became so evident, that the laws disrupted almost fully new finds and > meteorite research > and where the scientists are very disappointed about the situation, > would come to a more reasonable solution, > because it could be a signal for other desert countries and maybe also for > the few not yet so informed proponents and Luddites, who want to have > similar laws there, to avoid such a disaster like had happened in Australia. > > Well happy finding, > And greetings to Blinky Bill! > Martin > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 13:45 > An: Martin Altmann > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive > meteorite"collectable" > > Hi Martin and List, > > Does anyone else find it ironic that the Aussies will put an > Argentinian meteorite on their Australian coin? The Aussie government > doesn't want it's own meteorites leaving it's borders in the hands of > non-Aussie citizens, so they will take another nation's meteorites and > use those instead. Talk about hypocritical. Talk about playing games > with permits and laws. They should stick to Fosters beer. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > > > > On 7/6/09, Martin Altmann wrote: >> A medallion with Blinky Bill for you to engrave! >> >> ...aah, you mean the Campo coin? >> >> To complicate to order for me and you, >> because we would have to apply for an export permit first. >> >> (I hope the Royal Australian Mint knows about that problem). >> >> A lawyer could make fun in ordering such a coin and if he doesn't find any >> export permit icluded, >> he could incriminate the Australian Government/Royal Mint for illicit > export >> of National Heritage... >> >> ....so stupid are these Aussie-laws. >> >> >> >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Darren >> Garrison >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 06:29 >> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive >> meteorite"collectable" >> >> Australian issued meteorite "coin": >> >> (mid list) >> >> > http://www.prospectstampsandcoins.com.au/web/royal_aust_mint/2009_coins/inde >> x.html >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From MeteorHntr at aol.com Tue Jul 7 10:56:55 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 10:56:55 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive meteorite"collectable" Message-ID: List, Someone should copy off Martin's replies, have them printed on vellum, hard bound and sold as a meteorite collectible themselves. Whatever the price, it wouldn't be too expensive. Or maybe they can each be framed and hung on the walls for all to see. Or possibly they can be engraved in granite to be preserved for a millennia. Please keep the sage advice coming Martin! Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" In a message dated 7/7/2009 9:29:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time, altmann at meteorite-martin.de writes: No, it shows only how exotic these laws are. I'm sure the "Australian Government" doesn't intentionally want to keep the Australian meteorites in Australia, I'm rather convinced that quite nobody in the Australian government is aware of that law at all, because normal people don't know about meteorites or care about at all. And you have to keep in mind, how such laws happen. The most probable scenario is, that there are a handful of curators or meteorite scientists, who express their wishes, that the national meteorites should be theirs or that they should end in their hands or what ever their motivation might be. No matter how thought-out their ideas are, and they are sitting in a committee or elsewhere they give the recommendation to the legislature, that meteorites do have to be protected. Legislature means: politicians and civil servants. Of course these people can't have any idea what a meteorite is, how they are found, how many do exist, what for a scientific or economical value they have or don't have and how they were exchanged between finders, museums, dealers, collectors in past. At best they have heard of artefacts, dinosaurs, resources - and know, that these other - in their eyes similar - objects, have to be protected and are of great importance - and anyway the proposal to protect meteorites comes from scientists, hence people, who are supposed to know about what they are talking, therefore they will always wave that petition through and will add the word "meteorites" into the relevant already existent laws. You see it in the Aussie-Natural-Heritage lists, there they simply added "meteorites", it would have been logic to add the Australian tektites too - they are much more valuable than that Henbury, Mundrabilla, Boxhole, Camel Donga, Millbillillie stuff and much more rare, but you don't find them there. There you can see how arbitrary that all is. Or think to Poland - in the last 70 years they had 4 (four) meteorites there - so I really doubt, that any politician would have seen an urgent need for action to create a law for meteorites - but they did, so bizarre or droll this may sound to you. Most probably because a panjandrum put a bug in a clerk's or politician's ear. Or because one from the latter felt for the usual rubbish in the newspapers, that meteorites would have a value of millions of dollars per stone and are trafficked and dealt by shady persons by thousands of tons on ominous black markets. So that they get alerted, to protect the thousands of tons and quadrillions of Zloty of their Polish meteorites (and to get a faster promotion). But! If once a word is added into a law, then it will be horribly difficult to remove it from there again. Look - nobody could have said anything about that experiment to protect meteorites in Australia. Now we can judge the results, because enough time has elapsed to see, what the impact of this laws were. Well and there everybody can see, that the law had a converse effect than initially intended: Much, much less meteorites are recovered and almost no Australian meteorites end up anymore in the Australian institutional collections and universities. Wait - I will look in the Bulletin Database. During the last 10 years - 1999-2009 2007: Bunburra Rockhole, EUC, tkw 324g - a Fall 2006: Eldee 001 L6, S3, W1-2 tkw 4.51kg, Eldee 002 L6-melt breccia, W2 tkw 101g Yaringie H6, tkw 5.75 kg 2003: Prospector Pool Iron, ungrouped tkw 2.77kg 2002: Myrtle Springs H4 tkw 53g (Hello Don!) 1999: Dunbogan L6 tkw 30g a Fall Reid 028 H6, W3 tkw 30g Makes up 8 (eight) meteorites. Australia has a total of 649 meteorites. And these, Ladies and Gentlemen, were the complete officially recorded new meteorites of the decade of a whole continent, a continent full of deserts. For you in USA, where no such laws exist, to compare: (I don't know, whether your deserts are of comparable size and so suitable for meteorites like the Australian deserts) But USA had in the same time: 1999-2009 officially recorded in the Bulletins: 282 new meteorites And USA has a total of 1576 meteorites. GIST OF THAT POSTING: ---> during the last 10 years 18% of all known US-meteorites were found ---> during the last 10 years 1% of all known Aussie-meteorites were found I use the percentage to exclude factors like population density, properties of the surface and size of overall surface.... So we see, there has to be done something. We here on the list are often only lousy laymen, even most of us not citizens of Australia, we have no influence on Australian legislation. But scientists pled for the laws, which led to the leakage of new Australian meteorites, so maybe scientists could pled for an amendment to these laws, for them finally getting meteorites to work with again. Therefore we all could ask Alex Bevan, Bill Birch, the McColls, Ross Pogson...all the Australian meteoricists - not to forget Caroline Smith, cause just yesterday here an article about London was shown, with the link to the blog where she went hunting in Australia, one of the few persons, who were looking for meteorites down-under at all, so she knows the situation too, and of course the Meteoritical Society, that they all perhaps will write at the end a memorandum to improve the sad situation in Australia and to find better laws. But also the other scientists should help their colleagues from down-under. Huh, once I was told by a list member, a German who had emigrated to Australia, that he would need even an export permit for his German meteorites from his collection, if he wants to bring them out of Australia. That's a perfect integration, I'd say, if the belongings of an immigrant get immediately National Heritage of Australia. But also somewhat weird. Uh imagine, if someone sends a suspected stone to Bevan to Australia and it will turn out and classified to be a meteorite. Then he has to apply for an export permit to get the stone back? Australia has so fine meteorites and had once such a meteorite tradition, the superb Wolf-Creek-Crater - well worth to have a meteorite or mineral fair there. But nobody from other countries will come with meteorites, cause the paper-warfare would be a mess. A not so theoretical question: The meteorite sellers in most cases have a return policy, which allows the buyers to send the specimens back, if they aren't fully satisfied. What one has to do, if that happens with an Australian collector? That all is so strange. But I think, it could be of importance, that Australia where the situation became so evident, that the laws disrupted almost fully new finds and meteorite research and where the scientists are very disappointed about the situation, would come to a more reasonable solution, because it could be a signal for other desert countries and maybe also for the few not yet so informed proponents and Luddites, who want to have similar laws there, to avoid such a disaster like had happened in Australia. Well happy finding, And greetings to Blinky Bill! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com] Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 13:45 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive meteorite"collectable" Hi Martin and List, Does anyone else find it ironic that the Aussies will put an Argentinian meteorite on their Australian coin? The Aussie government doesn't want it's own meteorites leaving it's borders in the hands of non-Aussie citizens, so they will take another nation's meteorites and use those instead. Talk about hypocritical. Talk about playing games with permits and laws. They should stick to Fosters beer. Best regards, MikeG On 7/6/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > A medallion with Blinky Bill for you to engrave! > > ...aah, you mean the Campo coin? > > To complicate to order for me and you, > because we would have to apply for an export permit first. > > (I hope the Royal Australian Mint knows about that problem). > > A lawyer could make fun in ordering such a coin and if he doesn't find any > export permit icluded, > he could incriminate the Australian Government/Royal Mint for illicit export > of National Heritage... > > ....so stupid are these Aussie-laws. > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Darren > Garrison > Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 06:29 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive > meteorite"collectable" > > Australian issued meteorite "coin": > > (mid list) > > http://www.prospectstampsandcoins.com.au/web/royal_aust_mint/2009_coins/inde > x.html > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585089x1201462806/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Tue Jul 7 11:13:13 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 11:13:13 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive meteorite"collectable" Message-ID: MikeG and all, You said: "It is in nobody's best interest to restrict the search for, discovery of, and trade of meteorites." I want to correct you. It is in the financial short term best interest for researches and their institutions in a country to get grant money to study their new meteorites. If they let the new meteorites out of their borders, that is potentially millions of dollars those institutions won't get of grant money that someone else will get. That is the ONLY logical reason. A bad reason, but it is a reason. And that greed and selfishness is strong enough in some places to get the stupid laws past. As Martin pointed out, in many cases it might just be one researcher the nudges the right person to get such a law passed. Of course the results of such thinking is bad in the long term, but nowadays, no one seems to care about the long term, only the short term. Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" In a message dated 7/7/2009 9:41:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time, meteoritemike at gmail.com writes: Hi Martin and List, Well analyzed Martin. Reading your posts on these matters is like receiving an education. Now if we could just get the governments in question to read this list and consider what Martin has written extensively on, then we might see a return to reason. It is in nobody's best interest to restrict the search for, discovery of, and trade of meteorites. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585089x1201462806/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 11:45:02 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 11:45:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive meteorite"collectable" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Steve and List, My curse/talent for oversimplification strikes again. Yes Steve, you are right on the money with that. I think science should always get first look at scientifically-interesting new meteorites. But, outside or freelance hunters should not be ignored either - look at the Tagish Lake debacle for example. Frankly, if another H chondrite or common coarse octahedrite lands in the Australian Outback or the Canadian Yukon, why should science want a monopoly on the material, or to severely restrict it? Is there some hidden meaning inside an L6 chondrite that has not been revealed with decades of research on thousands on similar specimens? What benefit are scientists reaping by keeping the gates closed on lands around Canyon Diablo? Have any new insights come from the study of these materials that is sufficient to justify their restriction? IMO, no. Look at the new Martian announced on the list recently by Chaldni's Heirs and the Hupes - sure, some ended up on eBay and into private cabinets, but much more of the material ended up going to institutions and universities for study. But where would this new Martian be if private individuals had not found it, traded it, brought it to light, classified it, and distributed it? It would have been buried by the next sandstorm and perhaps never found. Or maybe one of the hundreds of government and institutional expedition teams would have found it - you know, those teams that are out in there in droves tripping over each other to find specimens. ;) Buzzard Coulee is a good example - why the holdup on export permits? Have the Canadians used this new H4 chondrite to unlock quantum teleportation? Does it cure Alzheimers? Let the private market have a crack at it already. And if something exotic is discovered later and the H4 chondrite turns out to be something special, then there is plenty of material to go around anyway - the 41kg TKW stated in the Met Bulletin is very conservative. Why can't their be a synergy between the freelance hunters and the institutions/universities/governments? Why does the private market and the science have to be segregrated? On the one hand, lay people can join the Meteoritical Society and help support it's efforts financially (which many members voluntarily do through the endowment fund, myself included), yet as private collectors we are threatened with arrest if we try to park on the side of taxpayer-funded road and stoop down to pick up a 5gr piece of oxidized shale. It's silly and unnecessary. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG On 7/7/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > MikeG and all, > > You said: "It is in nobody's best interest to restrict the search for, > discovery > of, and trade of meteorites." > > I want to correct you. It is in the financial short term best interest > for researches and their institutions in a country to get grant money to > study their new meteorites. If they let the new meteorites out of their > borders, that is potentially millions of dollars those institutions won't > get of > grant money that someone else will get. > > That is the ONLY logical reason. A bad reason, but it is a reason. > > And that greed and selfishness is strong enough in some places to get the > stupid laws past. As Martin pointed out, in many cases it might just be > one researcher the nudges the right person to get such a law passed. > > Of course the results of such thinking is bad in the long term, but > nowadays, no one seems to care about the long term, only the short term. > > Steve Arnold > of "Meteorite Men" > > > In a message dated 7/7/2009 9:41:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > meteoritemike at gmail.com writes: > Hi Martin and List, > > Well analyzed Martin. Reading your posts on these matters is like > receiving an education. Now if we could just get the governments in > question to read this list and consider what Martin has written > extensively on, then we might see a return to reason. > > It is in nobody's best interest to restrict the search for, discovery > of, and trade of meteorites. > > Best regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585089x1201462806/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > yExcfooterNO62) > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From marcin at meteoryt.net Tue Jul 7 11:33:09 2009 From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 17:33:09 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensivemeteorite"collectable" References: <814451.44446.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><00a801c9feb4$de5153d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <001b01c9ff0e$8e50e120$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <00de01c9ff18$3bec2700$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> "Gold Chondrule Avard" for Mr Altmann for longest emails ever posted to the list :D Just my two grosz, totaly off-topic. :) :D -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 4:23 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensivemeteorite"collectable" > No, > > it shows only how exotic these laws are. > > I'm sure the "Australian Government" doesn't intentionally want to keep > the > Australian meteorites in Australia, > I'm rather convinced that quite nobody in the Australian government is > aware > of that law at all, > because normal people don't know about meteorites or care about at all. > > And you have to keep in mind, how such laws happen. > The most probable scenario is, > that there are a handful of curators or meteorite scientists, who express > their wishes, that the national meteorites should be theirs or that they > should end in their hands or what ever their motivation might be. > No matter how thought-out their ideas are, > and they are sitting in a committee or elsewhere > they give the recommendation to the legislature, that meteorites do have > to > be protected. > > Legislature means: politicians and civil servants. > Of course these people can't have any idea what a meteorite is, how they > are > found, how many do exist, what for a scientific or economical value they > have or don't have and how they were exchanged between finders, museums, > dealers, collectors in past. > At best they have heard of artefacts, dinosaurs, resources - and know, > that > these other - in their eyes similar - objects, have to be protected and > are > of great importance - > and anyway the proposal to protect meteorites comes from scientists, hence > people, who are supposed to know about what they are talking, > therefore they will always wave that petition through > and will add the word "meteorites" into the relevant already existent > laws. > > You see it in the Aussie-Natural-Heritage lists, > there they simply added "meteorites", > it would have been logic to add the Australian tektites too - they are > much > more valuable than that Henbury, Mundrabilla, Boxhole, Camel Donga, > Millbillillie stuff and much more rare, but you don't find them there. > There you can see how arbitrary that all is. > > Or think to Poland - in the last 70 years they had 4 (four) meteorites > there > - so I really doubt, that any politician would have seen an urgent need > for > action to create a law for meteorites > - but they did, so bizarre or droll this may sound to you. > Most probably because a panjandrum put a bug in a clerk's or politician's > ear. Or because one from the latter felt for the usual rubbish in the > newspapers, that meteorites would have a value of millions of dollars per > stone and are trafficked and dealt by shady persons by thousands of tons > on > ominous black markets. So that they get alerted, to protect the thousands > of > tons and quadrillions of Zloty of their Polish meteorites > (and to get a faster promotion). > > > > But! If once a word is added into a law, > then it will be horribly difficult to remove it from there again. > > Look - nobody could have said anything about that experiment to protect > meteorites in Australia. > Now we can judge the results, because enough time has elapsed to see, what > the impact of this laws were. > > Well and there everybody can see, that the law had a converse effect than > initially intended: Much, much less meteorites are recovered and almost > no > Australian meteorites end up anymore in the Australian institutional > collections and universities. > > Wait - I will look in the Bulletin Database. > > During the last 10 years - 1999-2009 > > 2007: Bunburra Rockhole, EUC, tkw 324g - a Fall > > 2006: Eldee 001 L6, S3, W1-2 tkw 4.51kg, > Eldee 002 L6-melt breccia, W2 tkw 101g > Yaringie H6, tkw 5.75 kg > > 2003: Prospector Pool Iron, ungrouped tkw 2.77kg > > 2002: Myrtle Springs H4 tkw 53g (Hello > Don!) > > 1999: Dunbogan L6 tkw 30g a Fall > Reid 028 H6, W3 tkw 30g > > Makes up 8 (eight) meteorites. > Australia has a total of 649 meteorites. > > > And these, Ladies and Gentlemen, were the complete officially recorded new > meteorites of the decade of a whole continent, a continent full of > deserts. > > For you in USA, where no such laws exist, to compare: > (I don't know, whether your deserts are of comparable size and so suitable > for meteorites like the Australian deserts) > > But USA had in the same time: > 1999-2009 officially recorded in the Bulletins: > > 282 new meteorites > > And USA has a total of 1576 meteorites. > > GIST OF THAT POSTING: > > > > > ---> during the last 10 years 18% of all known US-meteorites were found > > ---> during the last 10 years 1% of all known Aussie-meteorites were > found > > > > > > > > > I use the percentage to exclude factors like population density, > properties > of the surface and size of overall surface.... > > So we see, there has to be done something. > > We here on the list are often only lousy laymen, even most of us not > citizens of Australia, we have no influence on Australian legislation. > > But scientists pled for the laws, which led to the leakage of new > Australian > meteorites, so maybe scientists could pled for an amendment to these laws, > for them finally getting meteorites to work with again. > > Therefore we all could ask Alex Bevan, Bill Birch, the McColls, Ross > Pogson...all the Australian meteoricists - not to forget Caroline Smith, > cause just yesterday here an article about London was shown, with the link > to the blog where she went hunting in Australia, one of the few persons, > who > were looking for meteorites down-under at all, so she knows the situation > too, > and of course the Meteoritical Society, > that they all perhaps will write at the end a memorandum to improve the > sad > situation in Australia and to find better laws. > But also the other scientists should help their colleagues from > down-under. > > > Huh, once I was told by a list member, a German who had emigrated to > Australia, that he would need even an export permit for his German > meteorites from his collection, if he wants to bring them out of > Australia. > That's a perfect integration, I'd say, if the belongings of an immigrant > get > immediately National Heritage of Australia. But also somewhat weird. > > Uh imagine, if someone sends a suspected stone to Bevan to Australia and > it > will turn out and classified to be a meteorite. Then he has to apply for > an > export permit to get the stone back? > > Australia has so fine meteorites and had once such a meteorite tradition, > the superb Wolf-Creek-Crater - well worth to have a meteorite or mineral > fair there. But nobody from other countries will come with meteorites, > cause > the paper-warfare would be a mess. > > A not so theoretical question: > > The meteorite sellers in most cases have a return policy, which allows the > buyers to send the specimens back, if they aren't fully satisfied. > What one has to do, if that happens with an Australian collector? > > That all is so strange. > > But I think, it could be of importance, that Australia where the situation > became so evident, that the laws disrupted almost fully new finds and > meteorite research > and where the scientists are very disappointed about the situation, > would come to a more reasonable solution, > because it could be a signal for other desert countries and maybe also for > the few not yet so informed proponents and Luddites, who want to have > similar laws there, to avoid such a disaster like had happened in > Australia. > > Well happy finding, > And greetings to Blinky Bill! > Martin > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 13:45 > An: Martin Altmann > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive > meteorite"collectable" > > Hi Martin and List, > > Does anyone else find it ironic that the Aussies will put an > Argentinian meteorite on their Australian coin? The Aussie government > doesn't want it's own meteorites leaving it's borders in the hands of > non-Aussie citizens, so they will take another nation's meteorites and > use those instead. Talk about hypocritical. Talk about playing games > with permits and laws. They should stick to Fosters beer. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > > > > On 7/6/09, Martin Altmann wrote: >> A medallion with Blinky Bill for you to engrave! >> >> ...aah, you mean the Campo coin? >> >> To complicate to order for me and you, >> because we would have to apply for an export permit first. >> >> (I hope the Royal Australian Mint knows about that problem). >> >> A lawyer could make fun in ordering such a coin and if he doesn't find >> any >> export permit icluded, >> he could incriminate the Australian Government/Royal Mint for illicit > export >> of National Heritage... >> >> ....so stupid are these Aussie-laws. >> >> >> >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >> Darren >> Garrison >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 06:29 >> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive >> meteorite"collectable" >> >> Australian issued meteorite "coin": >> >> (mid list) >> >> > http://www.prospectstampsandcoins.com.au/web/royal_aust_mint/2009_coins/inde >> x.html >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From cynapse at charter.net Tue Jul 7 13:04:11 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 12:04:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive meteorite"collectable" In-Reply-To: <001b01c9ff0e$8e50e120$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <814451.44446.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <00a801c9feb4$de5153d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <001b01c9ff0e$8e50e120$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <9qv65518ju48c5hu0kktam2k82rj4ftasi@4ax.com> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 16:23:52 +0200, you wrote: >Legislature means: politicians and civil servants. >Of course these people can't have any idea what a meteorite is, how they are >found, how many do exist, what for a scientific or economical value they >have or don't have and how they were exchanged between finders, museums, >dealers, collectors in past. Also, being a successful politician doesn't require that you actually be very intelligent or well educated-- it requires only that you can tell a majority of the people what they want to hear. With "leaders" like this, maybe Arizona will be the next place to outlaw meteorites: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/07/jebus_how_do_these_dingbats_ge.php From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jul 7 12:18:30 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 09:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Large sale today, so cheap! Message-ID: <684619.97568.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Check out this beauty selling on ebay in a few hours. Very nice large slice of Muonionalusta. This cost me more to cut and polish than the high bid right now! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400059849989 See all available items at the link below, there are way too many to list here. http://www.meteorite.com/farmer/ Keep me in the field, buy from my ebay sales and keep a hunter going. From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Tue Jul 7 12:23:33 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 09:23:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] LL4 S3 W1 is official! NWA 5799 Message-ID: <138790.17746.qm@web46401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Just a quick note for all those that picked up some of the NWA LL4 S3 W1 from me, it is now officially named - NWA 5799 Greg C. From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Tue Jul 7 12:24:52 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 18:24:52 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensivemeteorite"collectable" In-Reply-To: References: <814451.44446.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><00a801c9feb4$de5153d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2><001b01c9ff0e$8e50e120$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <002d01c9ff1f$76c48730$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Ah Mike and Steve, it's not a big thing. Each child can do these tiny stats, and each professional meteoriticist, would need to come to these simple conclusions, because he knows where to find the Bulletin Database on web, not more than 5 to 10 minutes. And that's why I'm often so impatient. Because the data are so clear and the opposite of a secret. And sometimes so shocked (e.g. when I had read that the former president of MetSoc.....ooops, - and so often not diplomatical, therefore shhhhhht). But in general, cause I'm sometimes asked by people, who found on web an article about meteorites, or often also by friends, who have nothing to do at all with meteorites, some of them scientists in other fields, but also "ordinary" people like you and me, and with them, if you only present the numbers and figures (which everybody could find out more or less easily in web), Then they are more than astonished about what's going on in the meteorite world. Because nobody can understand, what unfortunately is going on in meteorite science and politics regarding the very meteorites. Cause it's highly inefficient and illogical. With figures and numbers I mean: The find rates: In Antarctica, In desert countries. In countries with protectionist laws before and after In countries without protectionist laws. Of "private" parties Of "official" expeditions. The find rates before the desert rush. The find rates during the desert rush. The weights of the finds from everywhere The weights of the "interesting" types among these. The monetary aspects: The costs of the Antarctic campaigns. The costs of the "official" expeditions. The costs of meteorites on "the market" The volume of traded meteorites in total. The costs of meteorites in history. The costs of meteorites today. The budget of universities and museum to acquire meteorites today The budget of universities and museum to acquire meteorites spent yesterday. The budgets of universities for acquisitions in other departments. The costs for branches of science dealing with similar questions like meteoritics. The costs for space-flight missions with mineralogical objections. (O.k sometimes too the prices and values for meteorites, given in media or launched there by some of the protectionism advocacies. The incomes of a meteorite dealer...) And believe. NOBODY can understand why so few is done for meteorites from the official science side or why not more advantage is taken from the new finds and why not all are happy about that what has taken place during the last years. And in fact I have no influence on that. I see scientists, who agree with my and the opinion of the majority about that nonsense. I see scientists, who are happy about the new finds and prices and take advantage of it. I see scientists, who want to take advantage of these paradisiac times, but can't due to a sometimes complete cut-back of their budgets. I see scientists, who think, that someone like we are criminals. And I think the majority never got aware of this funny situation, because meteorites, meteoritics, meteorism is so extremely special, cause else the museum and labs would be full of the new finds, we wouldn't have these sick legal discussions and all in the meteorite world scientists, collectors, curators, dealers, hunters, planetologists, and even the tax-payers would be happy and would live happily ever after and unlike now and in the following years, the flow of incoming new finds revealing us more and more the secrets about our solar system would never run dry. And it even wouldn't cost a thing. But obviously we're not intelligent enough, and honestly, I'm getting tired to occupy myself with always the same mess, which nobody understands - I rather like to do our meteorites, the stones, until they will have closed down each and every country. Everything further to that topic would be recurrent and anyway we have no credibility at those persons, who have to be convinced, cause we're dealers and collectors - so anybody else is better capable to show the trivial and evident facts than me. And I'm tired to play the squaller. Our job is, like the other hunters and dealers too, to continue to deliver the rarest of the rare, the types, which the "official" side doesn't find or hardly finds and to deliver them at so low costs which they never can met or to make it possible for them at all due to the low costs to get them in their institutes, which they never could afford else and to deliver them to those, who appreciate our work. So please maybe others instead of me could be the Cassandra or Pandora or whatever for legendary grouches existed. I mean, it's in our all own interest. Or at least in the interest of all these who LOVE meteorites or who do that great research on meteorites. Because if they don't care, nobody will care And we have to be aware, that the World will turn around also without meteorites. ...man, I even have not a minute time to learn a better English... Gosh perhaps we should buy 1001 IMCA-Teddy-Bears and whenever we meet one of the old protectionists, we could bombard him with that stuff and scream: We love meteorites, we love you, we want to help you, we want to bring you so much meteorites more, which you never would get else and which you never would get funded.... Stamp collecting is also fine, but we learn so few from them about the universe. So. And now I have to apply for a job as cook on the Suisse-Omani expeditions. - I have to look ahead for the post-desert time. So I will be able to see at least a few weathered OCs on my working place to have a certain continuity. Cheers, Martin Disclaimer: These and all postings are solely my opinion. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Galactic Stone & Ironworks Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 16:41 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensivemeteorite"collectable" Hi Martin and List, Well analyzed Martin. Reading your posts on these matters is like receiving an education. Now if we could just get the governments in question to read this list and consider what Martin has written extensively on, then we might see a return to reason. It is in nobody's best interest to restrict the search for, discovery of, and trade of meteorites. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG On 7/7/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > No, > > it shows only how exotic these laws are. > > I'm sure the "Australian Government" doesn't intentionally want to keep the > Australian meteorites in Australia, > I'm rather convinced that quite nobody in the Australian government is aware > of that law at all, > because normal people don't know about meteorites or care about at all. > > And you have to keep in mind, how such laws happen. > The most probable scenario is, > that there are a handful of curators or meteorite scientists, who express > their wishes, that the national meteorites should be theirs or that they > should end in their hands or what ever their motivation might be. > No matter how thought-out their ideas are, > and they are sitting in a committee or elsewhere > they give the recommendation to the legislature, that meteorites do have to > be protected. > > Legislature means: politicians and civil servants. > Of course these people can't have any idea what a meteorite is, how they are > found, how many do exist, what for a scientific or economical value they > have or don't have and how they were exchanged between finders, museums, > dealers, collectors in past. > At best they have heard of artefacts, dinosaurs, resources - and know, that > these other - in their eyes similar - objects, have to be protected and are > of great importance - > and anyway the proposal to protect meteorites comes from scientists, hence > people, who are supposed to know about what they are talking, > therefore they will always wave that petition through > and will add the word "meteorites" into the relevant already existent laws. > > You see it in the Aussie-Natural-Heritage lists, > there they simply added "meteorites", > it would have been logic to add the Australian tektites too - they are much > more valuable than that Henbury, Mundrabilla, Boxhole, Camel Donga, > Millbillillie stuff and much more rare, but you don't find them there. > There you can see how arbitrary that all is. > > Or think to Poland - in the last 70 years they had 4 (four) meteorites there > - so I really doubt, that any politician would have seen an urgent need for > action to create a law for meteorites > - but they did, so bizarre or droll this may sound to you. > Most probably because a panjandrum put a bug in a clerk's or politician's > ear. Or because one from the latter felt for the usual rubbish in the > newspapers, that meteorites would have a value of millions of dollars per > stone and are trafficked and dealt by shady persons by thousands of tons on > ominous black markets. So that they get alerted, to protect the thousands of > tons and quadrillions of Zloty of their Polish meteorites > (and to get a faster promotion). > > > > But! If once a word is added into a law, > then it will be horribly difficult to remove it from there again. > > Look - nobody could have said anything about that experiment to protect > meteorites in Australia. > Now we can judge the results, because enough time has elapsed to see, what > the impact of this laws were. > > Well and there everybody can see, that the law had a converse effect than > initially intended: Much, much less meteorites are recovered and almost no > Australian meteorites end up anymore in the Australian institutional > collections and universities. > > Wait - I will look in the Bulletin Database. > > During the last 10 years - 1999-2009 > > 2007: Bunburra Rockhole, EUC, tkw 324g - a Fall > > 2006: Eldee 001 L6, S3, W1-2 tkw 4.51kg, > Eldee 002 L6-melt breccia, W2 tkw 101g > Yaringie H6, tkw 5.75 kg > > 2003: Prospector Pool Iron, ungrouped tkw 2.77kg > > 2002: Myrtle Springs H4 tkw 53g (Hello > Don!) > > 1999: Dunbogan L6 tkw 30g a Fall > Reid 028 H6, W3 tkw 30g > > Makes up 8 (eight) meteorites. > Australia has a total of 649 meteorites. > > > And these, Ladies and Gentlemen, were the complete officially recorded new > meteorites of the decade of a whole continent, a continent full of deserts. > > For you in USA, where no such laws exist, to compare: > (I don't know, whether your deserts are of comparable size and so suitable > for meteorites like the Australian deserts) > > But USA had in the same time: > 1999-2009 officially recorded in the Bulletins: > > 282 new meteorites > > And USA has a total of 1576 meteorites. > > GIST OF THAT POSTING: > > > > > ---> during the last 10 years 18% of all known US-meteorites were found > > ---> during the last 10 years 1% of all known Aussie-meteorites were found > > > > > > > > > I use the percentage to exclude factors like population density, properties > of the surface and size of overall surface.... > > So we see, there has to be done something. > > We here on the list are often only lousy laymen, even most of us not > citizens of Australia, we have no influence on Australian legislation. > > But scientists pled for the laws, which led to the leakage of new Australian > meteorites, so maybe scientists could pled for an amendment to these laws, > for them finally getting meteorites to work with again. > > Therefore we all could ask Alex Bevan, Bill Birch, the McColls, Ross > Pogson...all the Australian meteoricists - not to forget Caroline Smith, > cause just yesterday here an article about London was shown, with the link > to the blog where she went hunting in Australia, one of the few persons, who > were looking for meteorites down-under at all, so she knows the situation > too, > and of course the Meteoritical Society, > that they all perhaps will write at the end a memorandum to improve the sad > situation in Australia and to find better laws. > But also the other scientists should help their colleagues from down-under. > > > Huh, once I was told by a list member, a German who had emigrated to > Australia, that he would need even an export permit for his German > meteorites from his collection, if he wants to bring them out of Australia. > That's a perfect integration, I'd say, if the belongings of an immigrant get > immediately National Heritage of Australia. But also somewhat weird. > > Uh imagine, if someone sends a suspected stone to Bevan to Australia and it > will turn out and classified to be a meteorite. Then he has to apply for an > export permit to get the stone back? > > Australia has so fine meteorites and had once such a meteorite tradition, > the superb Wolf-Creek-Crater - well worth to have a meteorite or mineral > fair there. But nobody from other countries will come with meteorites, cause > the paper-warfare would be a mess. > > A not so theoretical question: > > The meteorite sellers in most cases have a return policy, which allows the > buyers to send the specimens back, if they aren't fully satisfied. > What one has to do, if that happens with an Australian collector? > > That all is so strange. > > But I think, it could be of importance, that Australia where the situation > became so evident, that the laws disrupted almost fully new finds and > meteorite research > and where the scientists are very disappointed about the situation, > would come to a more reasonable solution, > because it could be a signal for other desert countries and maybe also for > the few not yet so informed proponents and Luddites, who want to have > similar laws there, to avoid such a disaster like had happened in Australia. > > Well happy finding, > And greetings to Blinky Bill! > Martin > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com] > Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 13:45 > An: Martin Altmann > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive > meteorite"collectable" > > Hi Martin and List, > > Does anyone else find it ironic that the Aussies will put an > Argentinian meteorite on their Australian coin? The Aussie government > doesn't want it's own meteorites leaving it's borders in the hands of > non-Aussie citizens, so they will take another nation's meteorites and > use those instead. Talk about hypocritical. Talk about playing games > with permits and laws. They should stick to Fosters beer. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > > > > On 7/6/09, Martin Altmann wrote: >> A medallion with Blinky Bill for you to engrave! >> >> ...aah, you mean the Campo coin? >> >> To complicate to order for me and you, >> because we would have to apply for an export permit first. >> >> (I hope the Royal Australian Mint knows about that problem). >> >> A lawyer could make fun in ordering such a coin and if he doesn't find any >> export permit icluded, >> he could incriminate the Australian Government/Royal Mint for illicit > export >> of National Heritage... >> >> ....so stupid are these Aussie-laws. >> >> >> >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Darren >> Garrison >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 06:29 >> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive >> meteorite"collectable" >> >> Australian issued meteorite "coin": >> >> (mid list) >> >> > http://www.prospectstampsandcoins.com.au/web/royal_aust_mint/2009_coins/inde >> x.html >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cdtucson at cox.net Tue Jul 7 12:40:26 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 12:40:26 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensivemeteorite"collectable" In-Reply-To: <002d01c9ff1f$76c48730$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <20090707124026.84REG.213333.imail@fed1rmwml41> Martin, Forget about the job as a cook. Like Steve said, you need to publish your writing. Fantastic. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Martin Altmann wrote: > Ah Mike and Steve, > > it's not a big thing. Each child can do these tiny stats, > and each professional meteoriticist, would need to come to these simple > conclusions, because he knows where to find the Bulletin Database on web, > not more than 5 to 10 minutes. > > And that's why I'm often so impatient. > Because the data are so clear and the opposite of a secret. > And sometimes so shocked (e.g. when I had read that the former president of > MetSoc.....ooops, - and so often not diplomatical, therefore shhhhhht). > > But in general, > cause I'm sometimes asked by people, who found on web an article about > meteorites, > or often also by friends, who have nothing to do at all with meteorites, > some of them scientists in other fields, but also "ordinary" people like you > and me, > > and with them, if you only present the numbers and figures > (which everybody could find out more or less easily in web), > > Then they are more than astonished about what's going on in the meteorite > world. > Because nobody can understand, what unfortunately is going on in meteorite > science and politics regarding the very meteorites. Cause it's highly > inefficient and illogical. > > With figures and numbers I mean: > > The find rates: > > In Antarctica, > In desert countries. > In countries with protectionist laws before and after > In countries without protectionist laws. > Of "private" parties > Of "official" expeditions. > The find rates before the desert rush. > The find rates during the desert rush. > The weights of the finds from everywhere > The weights of the "interesting" types among these. > > The monetary aspects: > > The costs of the Antarctic campaigns. > The costs of the "official" expeditions. > The costs of meteorites on "the market" > The volume of traded meteorites in total. > The costs of meteorites in history. > The costs of meteorites today. > The budget of universities and museum to acquire meteorites today > The budget of universities and museum to acquire meteorites spent yesterday. > The budgets of universities for acquisitions in other departments. > The costs for branches of science dealing with similar questions like > meteoritics. > The costs for space-flight missions with mineralogical objections. > > (O.k sometimes too the prices and values for meteorites, given in media or > launched there by some of the protectionism advocacies. The incomes of a > meteorite dealer...) > > > And believe. NOBODY can understand why so few is done for meteorites from > the official science side or why not more advantage is taken from the new > finds > and why not all are happy about that what has taken place during the last > years. > > > And in fact I have no influence on that. > I see scientists, who agree with my and the opinion of the majority about > that nonsense. > I see scientists, who are happy about the new finds and prices and take > advantage of it. > I see scientists, who want to take advantage of these paradisiac times, > but can't due to a sometimes complete cut-back of their budgets. > I see scientists, who think, that someone like we are criminals. > > And I think the majority never got aware of this funny situation, > because meteorites, meteoritics, meteorism is so extremely special, > cause else the museum and labs would be full of the new finds, > we wouldn't have these sick legal discussions > and all in the meteorite world scientists, collectors, curators, dealers, > hunters, planetologists, and even the tax-payers would be happy and would > live happily ever after > and unlike now and in the following years, the flow of incoming new finds > revealing us more and more the secrets about our solar system > would never run dry. > > And it even wouldn't cost a thing. > But obviously we're not intelligent enough, > > and honestly, I'm getting tired to occupy myself with always the same mess, > which nobody understands - I rather like to do our meteorites, the stones, > until they will have closed down each and every country. > > Everything further to that topic would be recurrent and anyway we have no > credibility at those persons, who have to be convinced, cause we're dealers > and collectors - so anybody else is better capable to show the trivial and > evident facts than me. > > And I'm tired to play the squaller. > Our job is, like the other hunters and dealers too, to continue to deliver > the rarest of the rare, the types, which the "official" side doesn't find or > hardly finds and to deliver them at so low costs which they never can met or > to make it possible for them at all due to the low costs to get them in > their institutes, which they never could afford else and to deliver them to > those, who appreciate our work. > > So please maybe others instead of me could be the Cassandra or Pandora or > whatever for legendary grouches existed. > > I mean, it's in our all own interest. > Or at least in the interest of all these who LOVE meteorites > or who do that great research on meteorites. > > Because if they don't care, nobody will care > And we have to be aware, that the World will turn around also without > meteorites. > > > ...man, I even have not a minute time to learn a better English... > > Gosh perhaps we should buy 1001 IMCA-Teddy-Bears and whenever we meet one of > the old protectionists, we could bombard him with that stuff and scream: We > love meteorites, we love you, we want to help you, we want to bring you so > much meteorites more, which you never would get else and which you never > would get funded.... > > Stamp collecting is also fine, > but we learn so few from them about the universe. > > So. And now I have to apply for a job as cook on the Suisse-Omani > expeditions. - I have to look ahead for the post-desert time. > So I will be able to see at least a few weathered OCs on my working place to > have a certain continuity. > > Cheers, > Martin > > Disclaimer: These and all postings are solely my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Galactic > Stone & Ironworks > Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 16:41 > An: Martin Altmann > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky > expensivemeteorite"collectable" > > Hi Martin and List, > > Well analyzed Martin. Reading your posts on these matters is like > receiving an education. Now if we could just get the governments in > question to read this list and consider what Martin has written > extensively on, then we might see a return to reason. > > It is in nobody's best interest to restrict the search for, discovery > of, and trade of meteorites. > > Best regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > > On 7/7/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > > No, > > > > it shows only how exotic these laws are. > > > > I'm sure the "Australian Government" doesn't intentionally want to keep > the > > Australian meteorites in Australia, > > I'm rather convinced that quite nobody in the Australian government is > aware > > of that law at all, > > because normal people don't know about meteorites or care about at all. > > > > And you have to keep in mind, how such laws happen. > > The most probable scenario is, > > that there are a handful of curators or meteorite scientists, who express > > their wishes, that the national meteorites should be theirs or that they > > should end in their hands or what ever their motivation might be. > > No matter how thought-out their ideas are, > > and they are sitting in a committee or elsewhere > > they give the recommendation to the legislature, that meteorites do have > to > > be protected. > > > > Legislature means: politicians and civil servants. > > Of course these people can't have any idea what a meteorite is, how they > are > > found, how many do exist, what for a scientific or economical value they > > have or don't have and how they were exchanged between finders, museums, > > dealers, collectors in past. > > At best they have heard of artefacts, dinosaurs, resources - and know, > that > > these other - in their eyes similar - objects, have to be protected and > are > > of great importance - > > and anyway the proposal to protect meteorites comes from scientists, hence > > people, who are supposed to know about what they are talking, > > therefore they will always wave that petition through > > and will add the word "meteorites" into the relevant already existent > laws. > > > > You see it in the Aussie-Natural-Heritage lists, > > there they simply added "meteorites", > > it would have been logic to add the Australian tektites too - they are > much > > more valuable than that Henbury, Mundrabilla, Boxhole, Camel Donga, > > Millbillillie stuff and much more rare, but you don't find them there. > > There you can see how arbitrary that all is. > > > > Or think to Poland - in the last 70 years they had 4 (four) meteorites > there > > - so I really doubt, that any politician would have seen an urgent need > for > > action to create a law for meteorites > > - but they did, so bizarre or droll this may sound to you. > > Most probably because a panjandrum put a bug in a clerk's or politician's > > ear. Or because one from the latter felt for the usual rubbish in the > > newspapers, that meteorites would have a value of millions of dollars per > > stone and are trafficked and dealt by shady persons by thousands of tons > on > > ominous black markets. So that they get alerted, to protect the thousands > of > > tons and quadrillions of Zloty of their Polish meteorites > > (and to get a faster promotion). > > > > > > > > But! If once a word is added into a law, > > then it will be horribly difficult to remove it from there again. > > > > Look - nobody could have said anything about that experiment to protect > > meteorites in Australia. > > Now we can judge the results, because enough time has elapsed to see, what > > the impact of this laws were. > > > > Well and there everybody can see, that the law had a converse effect than > > initially intended: Much, much less meteorites are recovered and almost > no > > Australian meteorites end up anymore in the Australian institutional > > collections and universities. > > > > Wait - I will look in the Bulletin Database. > > > > During the last 10 years - 1999-2009 > > > > 2007: Bunburra Rockhole, EUC, tkw 324g - a Fall > > > > 2006: Eldee 001 L6, S3, W1-2 tkw 4.51kg, > > Eldee 002 L6-melt breccia, W2 tkw 101g > > Yaringie H6, tkw 5.75 kg > > > > 2003: Prospector Pool Iron, ungrouped tkw 2.77kg > > > > 2002: Myrtle Springs H4 tkw 53g (Hello > > Don!) > > > > 1999: Dunbogan L6 tkw 30g a Fall > > Reid 028 H6, W3 tkw 30g > > > > Makes up 8 (eight) meteorites. > > Australia has a total of 649 meteorites. > > > > > > And these, Ladies and Gentlemen, were the complete officially recorded new > > meteorites of the decade of a whole continent, a continent full of > deserts. > > > > For you in USA, where no such laws exist, to compare: > > (I don't know, whether your deserts are of comparable size and so suitable > > for meteorites like the Australian deserts) > > > > But USA had in the same time: > > 1999-2009 officially recorded in the Bulletins: > > > > 282 new meteorites > > > > And USA has a total of 1576 meteorites. > > > > GIST OF THAT POSTING: > > > > > > > > > > ---> during the last 10 years 18% of all known US-meteorites were found > > > > ---> during the last 10 years 1% of all known Aussie-meteorites were > found > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I use the percentage to exclude factors like population density, > properties > > of the surface and size of overall surface.... > > > > So we see, there has to be done something. > > > > We here on the list are often only lousy laymen, even most of us not > > citizens of Australia, we have no influence on Australian legislation. > > > > But scientists pled for the laws, which led to the leakage of new > Australian > > meteorites, so maybe scientists could pled for an amendment to these laws, > > for them finally getting meteorites to work with again. > > > > Therefore we all could ask Alex Bevan, Bill Birch, the McColls, Ross > > Pogson...all the Australian meteoricists - not to forget Caroline Smith, > > cause just yesterday here an article about London was shown, with the link > > to the blog where she went hunting in Australia, one of the few persons, > who > > were looking for meteorites down-under at all, so she knows the situation > > too, > > and of course the Meteoritical Society, > > that they all perhaps will write at the end a memorandum to improve the > sad > > situation in Australia and to find better laws. > > But also the other scientists should help their colleagues from > down-under. > > > > > > Huh, once I was told by a list member, a German who had emigrated to > > Australia, that he would need even an export permit for his German > > meteorites from his collection, if he wants to bring them out of > Australia. > > That's a perfect integration, I'd say, if the belongings of an immigrant > get > > immediately National Heritage of Australia. But also somewhat weird. > > > > Uh imagine, if someone sends a suspected stone to Bevan to Australia and > it > > will turn out and classified to be a meteorite. Then he has to apply for > an > > export permit to get the stone back? > > > > Australia has so fine meteorites and had once such a meteorite tradition, > > the superb Wolf-Creek-Crater - well worth to have a meteorite or mineral > > fair there. But nobody from other countries will come with meteorites, > cause > > the paper-warfare would be a mess. > > > > A not so theoretical question: > > > > The meteorite sellers in most cases have a return policy, which allows the > > buyers to send the specimens back, if they aren't fully satisfied. > > What one has to do, if that happens with an Australian collector? > > > > That all is so strange. > > > > But I think, it could be of importance, that Australia where the situation > > became so evident, that the laws disrupted almost fully new finds and > > meteorite research > > and where the scientists are very disappointed about the situation, > > would come to a more reasonable solution, > > because it could be a signal for other desert countries and maybe also for > > the few not yet so informed proponents and Luddites, who want to have > > similar laws there, to avoid such a disaster like had happened in > Australia. > > > > Well happy finding, > > And greetings to Blinky Bill! > > Martin > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com] > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 13:45 > > An: Martin Altmann > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive > > meteorite"collectable" > > > > Hi Martin and List, > > > > Does anyone else find it ironic that the Aussies will put an > > Argentinian meteorite on their Australian coin? The Aussie government > > doesn't want it's own meteorites leaving it's borders in the hands of > > non-Aussie citizens, so they will take another nation's meteorites and > > use those instead. Talk about hypocritical. Talk about playing games > > with permits and laws. They should stick to Fosters beer. > > > > Best regards, > > > > MikeG > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/6/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > >> A medallion with Blinky Bill for you to engrave! > >> > >> ...aah, you mean the Campo coin? > >> > >> To complicate to order for me and you, > >> because we would have to apply for an export permit first. > >> > >> (I hope the Royal Australian Mint knows about that problem). > >> > >> A lawyer could make fun in ordering such a coin and if he doesn't find > any > >> export permit icluded, > >> he could incriminate the Australian Government/Royal Mint for illicit > > export > >> of National Heritage... > >> > >> ....so stupid are these Aussie-laws. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Darren > >> Garrison > >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 06:29 > >> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive > >> meteorite"collectable" > >> > >> Australian issued meteorite "coin": > >> > >> (mid list) > >> > >> > > > http://www.prospectstampsandcoins.com.au/web/royal_aust_mint/2009_coins/inde > >> x.html > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > > > > -- > > ......................................................... > > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > > .......................................................... > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 12:58:29 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 12:58:29 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin's Wisdom - Was "Yet another gimmicky expensive meteorite collectable" Message-ID: Martin said - "Gosh perhaps we should buy 1001 IMCA-Teddy-Bears and whenever we meet one of the old protectionists, we could bombard him with that stuff and scream: We love meteorites, we love you, we want to help you, we want to bring you so much meteorites more, which you never would get else and which you never would get funded...." So true. So funny. I just blew coffee out of my nose. LOL -------------------------------------- I hereby resolve, in full view of the List, to go back through the archives and save all of Martin's best postings about this issue - and with his blessing (if I can get it), I'd like to piece them all together into some kind of collection on the subject. Perhaps a webpage with a "best of" list of quotations and statistics. Martin has written extensively and frequently on this and he must be exhausted from it. Even a man of manic typing speed can see the time involved in writing his postings - not even accounting that he is doing it (masterfully) in a second language. It is a shame to leave them buried in the archives where only the converted can see. As he said, this information is not secret - it is out there for anyone to find. The problem is, the people who NEED to read it are not going to look for it because it's buried in the Met Bulletin Database and in works of limited availability like the Catalogue of Meteorites. Even Burke's Cosmic Debris should be required reading for those who seek to legislate meteorites - it illustrates well the power struggles behind the scenes regarding the legitimacy of meteorites - lessons which would apply well to the issue at hand. Best regards, MikeG On 7/7/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > Ah Mike and Steve, > > it's not a big thing. Each child can do these tiny stats, > and each professional meteoriticist, would need to come to these simple > conclusions, because he knows where to find the Bulletin Database on web, > not more than 5 to 10 minutes. > > And that's why I'm often so impatient. > Because the data are so clear and the opposite of a secret. > And sometimes so shocked (e.g. when I had read that the former president of > MetSoc.....ooops, - and so often not diplomatical, therefore shhhhhht). > > But in general, > cause I'm sometimes asked by people, who found on web an article about > meteorites, > or often also by friends, who have nothing to do at all with meteorites, > some of them scientists in other fields, but also "ordinary" people like you > and me, > > and with them, if you only present the numbers and figures > (which everybody could find out more or less easily in web), > > Then they are more than astonished about what's going on in the meteorite > world. > Because nobody can understand, what unfortunately is going on in meteorite > science and politics regarding the very meteorites. Cause it's highly > inefficient and illogical. > > With figures and numbers I mean: > > The find rates: > > In Antarctica, > In desert countries. > In countries with protectionist laws before and after > In countries without protectionist laws. > Of "private" parties > Of "official" expeditions. > The find rates before the desert rush. > The find rates during the desert rush. > The weights of the finds from everywhere > The weights of the "interesting" types among these. > > The monetary aspects: > > The costs of the Antarctic campaigns. > The costs of the "official" expeditions. > The costs of meteorites on "the market" > The volume of traded meteorites in total. > The costs of meteorites in history. > The costs of meteorites today. > The budget of universities and museum to acquire meteorites today > The budget of universities and museum to acquire meteorites spent yesterday. > The budgets of universities for acquisitions in other departments. > The costs for branches of science dealing with similar questions like > meteoritics. > The costs for space-flight missions with mineralogical objections. > > (O.k sometimes too the prices and values for meteorites, given in media or > launched there by some of the protectionism advocacies. The incomes of a > meteorite dealer...) > > > And believe. NOBODY can understand why so few is done for meteorites from > the official science side or why not more advantage is taken from the new > finds > and why not all are happy about that what has taken place during the last > years. > > > And in fact I have no influence on that. > I see scientists, who agree with my and the opinion of the majority about > that nonsense. > I see scientists, who are happy about the new finds and prices and take > advantage of it. > I see scientists, who want to take advantage of these paradisiac times, > but can't due to a sometimes complete cut-back of their budgets. > I see scientists, who think, that someone like we are criminals. > > And I think the majority never got aware of this funny situation, > because meteorites, meteoritics, meteorism is so extremely special, > cause else the museum and labs would be full of the new finds, > we wouldn't have these sick legal discussions > and all in the meteorite world scientists, collectors, curators, dealers, > hunters, planetologists, and even the tax-payers would be happy and would > live happily ever after > and unlike now and in the following years, the flow of incoming new finds > revealing us more and more the secrets about our solar system > would never run dry. > > And it even wouldn't cost a thing. > But obviously we're not intelligent enough, > > and honestly, I'm getting tired to occupy myself with always the same mess, > which nobody understands - I rather like to do our meteorites, the stones, > until they will have closed down each and every country. > > Everything further to that topic would be recurrent and anyway we have no > credibility at those persons, who have to be convinced, cause we're dealers > and collectors - so anybody else is better capable to show the trivial and > evident facts than me. > > And I'm tired to play the squaller. > Our job is, like the other hunters and dealers too, to continue to deliver > the rarest of the rare, the types, which the "official" side doesn't find or > hardly finds and to deliver them at so low costs which they never can met or > to make it possible for them at all due to the low costs to get them in > their institutes, which they never could afford else and to deliver them to > those, who appreciate our work. > > So please maybe others instead of me could be the Cassandra or Pandora or > whatever for legendary grouches existed. > > I mean, it's in our all own interest. > Or at least in the interest of all these who LOVE meteorites > or who do that great research on meteorites. > > Because if they don't care, nobody will care > And we have to be aware, that the World will turn around also without > meteorites. > > > ...man, I even have not a minute time to learn a better English... > > Gosh perhaps we should buy 1001 IMCA-Teddy-Bears and whenever we meet one of > the old protectionists, we could bombard him with that stuff and scream: We > love meteorites, we love you, we want to help you, we want to bring you so > much meteorites more, which you never would get else and which you never > would get funded.... > > Stamp collecting is also fine, > but we learn so few from them about the universe. > > So. And now I have to apply for a job as cook on the Suisse-Omani > expeditions. - I have to look ahead for the post-desert time. > So I will be able to see at least a few weathered OCs on my working place to > have a certain continuity. > > Cheers, > Martin > > Disclaimer: These and all postings are solely my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Galactic > Stone & Ironworks > Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 16:41 > An: Martin Altmann > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky > expensivemeteorite"collectable" > > Hi Martin and List, > > Well analyzed Martin. Reading your posts on these matters is like > receiving an education. Now if we could just get the governments in > question to read this list and consider what Martin has written > extensively on, then we might see a return to reason. > > It is in nobody's best interest to restrict the search for, discovery > of, and trade of meteorites. > > Best regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > > On 7/7/09, Martin Altmann wrote: >> No, >> >> it shows only how exotic these laws are. >> >> I'm sure the "Australian Government" doesn't intentionally want to keep > the >> Australian meteorites in Australia, >> I'm rather convinced that quite nobody in the Australian government is > aware >> of that law at all, >> because normal people don't know about meteorites or care about at all. >> >> And you have to keep in mind, how such laws happen. >> The most probable scenario is, >> that there are a handful of curators or meteorite scientists, who express >> their wishes, that the national meteorites should be theirs or that they >> should end in their hands or what ever their motivation might be. >> No matter how thought-out their ideas are, >> and they are sitting in a committee or elsewhere >> they give the recommendation to the legislature, that meteorites do have > to >> be protected. >> >> Legislature means: politicians and civil servants. >> Of course these people can't have any idea what a meteorite is, how they > are >> found, how many do exist, what for a scientific or economical value they >> have or don't have and how they were exchanged between finders, museums, >> dealers, collectors in past. >> At best they have heard of artefacts, dinosaurs, resources - and know, > that >> these other - in their eyes similar - objects, have to be protected and > are >> of great importance - >> and anyway the proposal to protect meteorites comes from scientists, hence >> people, who are supposed to know about what they are talking, >> therefore they will always wave that petition through >> and will add the word "meteorites" into the relevant already existent > laws. >> >> You see it in the Aussie-Natural-Heritage lists, >> there they simply added "meteorites", >> it would have been logic to add the Australian tektites too - they are > much >> more valuable than that Henbury, Mundrabilla, Boxhole, Camel Donga, >> Millbillillie stuff and much more rare, but you don't find them there. >> There you can see how arbitrary that all is. >> >> Or think to Poland - in the last 70 years they had 4 (four) meteorites > there >> - so I really doubt, that any politician would have seen an urgent need > for >> action to create a law for meteorites >> - but they did, so bizarre or droll this may sound to you. >> Most probably because a panjandrum put a bug in a clerk's or politician's >> ear. Or because one from the latter felt for the usual rubbish in the >> newspapers, that meteorites would have a value of millions of dollars per >> stone and are trafficked and dealt by shady persons by thousands of tons > on >> ominous black markets. So that they get alerted, to protect the thousands > of >> tons and quadrillions of Zloty of their Polish meteorites >> (and to get a faster promotion). >> >> >> >> But! If once a word is added into a law, >> then it will be horribly difficult to remove it from there again. >> >> Look - nobody could have said anything about that experiment to protect >> meteorites in Australia. >> Now we can judge the results, because enough time has elapsed to see, what >> the impact of this laws were. >> >> Well and there everybody can see, that the law had a converse effect than >> initially intended: Much, much less meteorites are recovered and almost > no >> Australian meteorites end up anymore in the Australian institutional >> collections and universities. >> >> Wait - I will look in the Bulletin Database. >> >> During the last 10 years - 1999-2009 >> >> 2007: Bunburra Rockhole, EUC, tkw 324g - a Fall >> >> 2006: Eldee 001 L6, S3, W1-2 tkw 4.51kg, >> Eldee 002 L6-melt breccia, W2 tkw 101g >> Yaringie H6, tkw 5.75 kg >> >> 2003: Prospector Pool Iron, ungrouped tkw 2.77kg >> >> 2002: Myrtle Springs H4 tkw 53g (Hello >> Don!) >> >> 1999: Dunbogan L6 tkw 30g a Fall >> Reid 028 H6, W3 tkw 30g >> >> Makes up 8 (eight) meteorites. >> Australia has a total of 649 meteorites. >> >> >> And these, Ladies and Gentlemen, were the complete officially recorded new >> meteorites of the decade of a whole continent, a continent full of > deserts. >> >> For you in USA, where no such laws exist, to compare: >> (I don't know, whether your deserts are of comparable size and so suitable >> for meteorites like the Australian deserts) >> >> But USA had in the same time: >> 1999-2009 officially recorded in the Bulletins: >> >> 282 new meteorites >> >> And USA has a total of 1576 meteorites. >> >> GIST OF THAT POSTING: >> >> >> >> >> ---> during the last 10 years 18% of all known US-meteorites were found >> >> ---> during the last 10 years 1% of all known Aussie-meteorites were > found >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I use the percentage to exclude factors like population density, > properties >> of the surface and size of overall surface.... >> >> So we see, there has to be done something. >> >> We here on the list are often only lousy laymen, even most of us not >> citizens of Australia, we have no influence on Australian legislation. >> >> But scientists pled for the laws, which led to the leakage of new > Australian >> meteorites, so maybe scientists could pled for an amendment to these laws, >> for them finally getting meteorites to work with again. >> >> Therefore we all could ask Alex Bevan, Bill Birch, the McColls, Ross >> Pogson...all the Australian meteoricists - not to forget Caroline Smith, >> cause just yesterday here an article about London was shown, with the link >> to the blog where she went hunting in Australia, one of the few persons, > who >> were looking for meteorites down-under at all, so she knows the situation >> too, >> and of course the Meteoritical Society, >> that they all perhaps will write at the end a memorandum to improve the > sad >> situation in Australia and to find better laws. >> But also the other scientists should help their colleagues from > down-under. >> >> >> Huh, once I was told by a list member, a German who had emigrated to >> Australia, that he would need even an export permit for his German >> meteorites from his collection, if he wants to bring them out of > Australia. >> That's a perfect integration, I'd say, if the belongings of an immigrant > get >> immediately National Heritage of Australia. But also somewhat weird. >> >> Uh imagine, if someone sends a suspected stone to Bevan to Australia and > it >> will turn out and classified to be a meteorite. Then he has to apply for > an >> export permit to get the stone back? >> >> Australia has so fine meteorites and had once such a meteorite tradition, >> the superb Wolf-Creek-Crater - well worth to have a meteorite or mineral >> fair there. But nobody from other countries will come with meteorites, > cause >> the paper-warfare would be a mess. >> >> A not so theoretical question: >> >> The meteorite sellers in most cases have a return policy, which allows the >> buyers to send the specimens back, if they aren't fully satisfied. >> What one has to do, if that happens with an Australian collector? >> >> That all is so strange. >> >> But I think, it could be of importance, that Australia where the situation >> became so evident, that the laws disrupted almost fully new finds and >> meteorite research >> and where the scientists are very disappointed about the situation, >> would come to a more reasonable solution, >> because it could be a signal for other desert countries and maybe also for >> the few not yet so informed proponents and Luddites, who want to have >> similar laws there, to avoid such a disaster like had happened in > Australia. >> >> Well happy finding, >> And greetings to Blinky Bill! >> Martin >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com] >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 13:45 >> An: Martin Altmann >> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive >> meteorite"collectable" >> >> Hi Martin and List, >> >> Does anyone else find it ironic that the Aussies will put an >> Argentinian meteorite on their Australian coin? The Aussie government >> doesn't want it's own meteorites leaving it's borders in the hands of >> non-Aussie citizens, so they will take another nation's meteorites and >> use those instead. Talk about hypocritical. Talk about playing games >> with permits and laws. They should stick to Fosters beer. >> >> Best regards, >> >> MikeG >> >> >> >> >> >> On 7/6/09, Martin Altmann wrote: >>> A medallion with Blinky Bill for you to engrave! >>> >>> ...aah, you mean the Campo coin? >>> >>> To complicate to order for me and you, >>> because we would have to apply for an export permit first. >>> >>> (I hope the Royal Australian Mint knows about that problem). >>> >>> A lawyer could make fun in ordering such a coin and if he doesn't find > any >>> export permit icluded, >>> he could incriminate the Australian Government/Royal Mint for illicit >> export >>> of National Heritage... >>> >>> ....so stupid are these Aussie-laws. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Darren >>> Garrison >>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 06:29 >>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive >>> meteorite"collectable" >>> >>> Australian issued meteorite "coin": >>> >>> (mid list) >>> >>> >> > http://www.prospectstampsandcoins.com.au/web/royal_aust_mint/2009_coins/inde >>> x.html >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> >> -- >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From waltbranch at bellsouth.net Tue Jul 7 13:00:16 2009 From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 13:00:16 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensivemeteorite"collectable" References: <814451.44446.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><00a801c9feb4$de5153d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <001b01c9ff0e$8e50e120$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: In book 56, article 45, subsection 31, paragraph 20, quatrain 8, line 3 Martin Wrote >Of course these people can't have any idea what a >meteorite is, how they are Nice summary, Martin. -Walter Branch (surgery again tomorrow :-( ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensivemeteorite"collectable" No, it shows only how exotic these laws are. I'm sure the "Australian Government" doesn't intentionally want to keep the Australian meteorites in Australia, I'm rather convinced that quite nobody in the Australian government is aware of that law at all, because normal people don't know about meteorites or care about at all. And you have to keep in mind, how such laws happen. The most probable scenario is, that there are a handful of curators or meteorite scientists, who express their wishes, that the national meteorites should be theirs or that they should end in their hands or what ever their motivation might be. No matter how thought-out their ideas are, and they are sitting in a committee or elsewhere they give the recommendation to the legislature, that meteorites do have to be protected. Legislature means: politicians and civil servants. Of course these people can't have any idea what a meteorite is, how they are found, how many do exist, what for a scientific or economical value they have or don't have and how they were exchanged between finders, museums, dealers, collectors in past. At best they have heard of artefacts, dinosaurs, resources - and know, that these other - in their eyes similar - objects, have to be protected and are of great importance - and anyway the proposal to protect meteorites comes from scientists, hence people, who are supposed to know about what they are talking, therefore they will always wave that petition through and will add the word "meteorites" into the relevant already existent laws. You see it in the Aussie-Natural-Heritage lists, there they simply added "meteorites", it would have been logic to add the Australian tektites too - they are much more valuable than that Henbury, Mundrabilla, Boxhole, Camel Donga, Millbillillie stuff and much more rare, but you don't find them there. There you can see how arbitrary that all is. Or think to Poland - in the last 70 years they had 4 (four) meteorites there - so I really doubt, that any politician would have seen an urgent need for action to create a law for meteorites - but they did, so bizarre or droll this may sound to you. Most probably because a panjandrum put a bug in a clerk's or politician's ear. Or because one from the latter felt for the usual rubbish in the newspapers, that meteorites would have a value of millions of dollars per stone and are trafficked and dealt by shady persons by thousands of tons on ominous black markets. So that they get alerted, to protect the thousands of tons and quadrillions of Zloty of their Polish meteorites (and to get a faster promotion). But! If once a word is added into a law, then it will be horribly difficult to remove it from there again. Look - nobody could have said anything about that experiment to protect meteorites in Australia. Now we can judge the results, because enough time has elapsed to see, what the impact of this laws were. Well and there everybody can see, that the law had a converse effect than initially intended: Much, much less meteorites are recovered and almost no Australian meteorites end up anymore in the Australian institutional collections and universities. Wait - I will look in the Bulletin Database. During the last 10 years - 1999-2009 2007: Bunburra Rockhole, EUC, tkw 324g - a Fall 2006: Eldee 001 L6, S3, W1-2 tkw 4.51kg, Eldee 002 L6-melt breccia, W2 tkw 101g Yaringie H6, tkw 5.75 kg 2003: Prospector Pool Iron, ungrouped tkw 2.77kg 2002: Myrtle Springs H4 tkw 53g (Hello Don!) 1999: Dunbogan L6 tkw 30g a Fall Reid 028 H6, W3 tkw 30g Makes up 8 (eight) meteorites. Australia has a total of 649 meteorites. And these, Ladies and Gentlemen, were the complete officially recorded new meteorites of the decade of a whole continent, a continent full of deserts. For you in USA, where no such laws exist, to compare: (I don't know, whether your deserts are of comparable size and so suitable for meteorites like the Australian deserts) But USA had in the same time: 1999-2009 officially recorded in the Bulletins: 282 new meteorites And USA has a total of 1576 meteorites. GIST OF THAT POSTING: ---> during the last 10 years 18% of all known US-meteorites were found ---> during the last 10 years 1% of all known Aussie-meteorites were found I use the percentage to exclude factors like population density, properties of the surface and size of overall surface.... So we see, there has to be done something. We here on the list are often only lousy laymen, even most of us not citizens of Australia, we have no influence on Australian legislation. But scientists pled for the laws, which led to the leakage of new Australian meteorites, so maybe scientists could pled for an amendment to these laws, for them finally getting meteorites to work with again. Therefore we all could ask Alex Bevan, Bill Birch, the McColls, Ross Pogson...all the Australian meteoricists - not to forget Caroline Smith, cause just yesterday here an article about London was shown, with the link to the blog where she went hunting in Australia, one of the few persons, who were looking for meteorites down-under at all, so she knows the situation too, and of course the Meteoritical Society, that they all perhaps will write at the end a memorandum to improve the sad situation in Australia and to find better laws. But also the other scientists should help their colleagues from down-under. Huh, once I was told by a list member, a German who had emigrated to Australia, that he would need even an export permit for his German meteorites from his collection, if he wants to bring them out of Australia. That's a perfect integration, I'd say, if the belongings of an immigrant get immediately National Heritage of Australia. But also somewhat weird. Uh imagine, if someone sends a suspected stone to Bevan to Australia and it will turn out and classified to be a meteorite. Then he has to apply for an export permit to get the stone back? Australia has so fine meteorites and had once such a meteorite tradition, the superb Wolf-Creek-Crater - well worth to have a meteorite or mineral fair there. But nobody from other countries will come with meteorites, cause the paper-warfare would be a mess. A not so theoretical question: The meteorite sellers in most cases have a return policy, which allows the buyers to send the specimens back, if they aren't fully satisfied. What one has to do, if that happens with an Australian collector? That all is so strange. But I think, it could be of importance, that Australia where the situation became so evident, that the laws disrupted almost fully new finds and meteorite research and where the scientists are very disappointed about the situation, would come to a more reasonable solution, because it could be a signal for other desert countries and maybe also for the few not yet so informed proponents and Luddites, who want to have similar laws there, to avoid such a disaster like had happened in Australia. Well happy finding, And greetings to Blinky Bill! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com] Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 13:45 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive meteorite"collectable" Hi Martin and List, Does anyone else find it ironic that the Aussies will put an Argentinian meteorite on their Australian coin? The Aussie government doesn't want it's own meteorites leaving it's borders in the hands of non-Aussie citizens, so they will take another nation's meteorites and use those instead. Talk about hypocritical. Talk about playing games with permits and laws. They should stick to Fosters beer. Best regards, MikeG On 7/6/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > A medallion with Blinky Bill for you to engrave! > > ...aah, you mean the Campo coin? > > To complicate to order for me and you, > because we would have to apply for an export permit first. > > (I hope the Royal Australian Mint knows about that problem). > > A lawyer could make fun in ordering such a coin and if he doesn't find any > export permit icluded, > he could incriminate the Australian Government/Royal Mint for illicit export > of National Heritage... > > ....so stupid are these Aussie-laws. > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Darren > Garrison > Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 06:29 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive > meteorite"collectable" > > Australian issued meteorite "coin": > > (mid list) > > http://www.prospectstampsandcoins.com.au/web/royal_aust_mint/2009_coins/inde > x.html > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Tue Jul 7 13:25:50 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 19:25:50 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensivemeteorite"collectable" In-Reply-To: References: <814451.44446.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><00a801c9feb4$de5153d0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <001b01c9ff0e$8e50e120$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <003801c9ff27$f9b7ceb0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Ya but that wasn't meant as criticism. It's the most common thing on Earth, that nobody knows so well, what a meteorite is. Why politicians should be there an exception from all others? (And in fact, I would be worried, if the politicians have nothing better to do as to waste their time on meteorites - ooor it must be a very happy nation without other more urgent problems) Good luck tomorrow Walter! -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Walter Branch [mailto:waltbranch at bellsouth.net] Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 19:00 An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensivemeteorite"collectable" In book 56, article 45, subsection 31, paragraph 20, quatrain 8, line 3 Martin Wrote >Of course these people can't have any idea what a >meteorite is, how they are Nice summary, Martin. -Walter Branch (surgery again tomorrow :-( From lintonius at earthlink.net Tue Jul 7 13:57:02 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 10:57:02 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - AD - Canyon Diablo listings References: Message-ID: <3C06C877B88B47B89EB559412347F15F@D190TH71> Good morning listees, I have a nice variety of Canyon Diablo's listed on eBay, ending this evening. Nothing sensational...just classic, nicely shaped, CD space rocks. Ranging in size from 10-84 grams. Have a great day. Linton http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/lintonius_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZ From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 14:44:21 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 14:44:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] GIVEAWAY FREEBIE! - First Responder Gets It...!! Message-ID: Hi Listees! Lately I have realized just how valuable the List has been to me - for learning, networking, and meeting friends. I have made some great friends and I have annoyed some people as well. While reading Martin's excellent posts today, I fully realized how ignorant I was (and still am) about the finer aspects of meteorites - such as the laws, factions, market forces, etc. I do not mean to single Martin out - there are many other eloquent and wise members of the list who I feel indebted to. I won't give a big preamble and start naming them all. Anyhoot, enough rambling on my part, let's get to the FREE STUFF. I want to give a little something back to the List for what it has given me. It's been a long time since I have done a giveaway, so here it is - a trivia contest with a great free prize. THE PRIZE - AN ASSORTMENT OF IMPACTITES - including specimens of Libyan Desert Glass, Darwin Glass, Steinheim Shattercone, and Indochinite tektite. THE RULES - only one rule : the first responder who answers all of the questions correctly will win the prize absolutely free - no shipping charges. This offer is open to the entire planet and outer-lying star systems near the Rim. EMAIL ALL REPLIES TO ME OFFLIST. THE QUESTIONS - Answer for me these questions three.... 1) Okechobee is one of 5 approved meteorites from Florida. Okechobee was found in 1916 under somewhat unusual circumstances - it was not your typical find. Where and how was this L4 meteorite recovered? 2) Which of these lunar meteorites has the longest measured cosmic exposure age? Dhofar 025 or Kalahari 009? 3) 1979 was a busy season for Japanese meteorite researchers in Antarctica. How many meteorites did they find that year in the Yamato Mountains area? Send your answers, offlist, to - mike at galactic-stone.com First responder wins. I will email the winner to request their mailing address for the package. Once the prize is claimed, I will post an announcement on the List - so please don't reply after that announcement is made. Thanks and good luck! MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 15:29:10 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:29:10 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] GIVEAWAY FREEBIE! - First Responder Gets It...!! In-Reply-To: <4A539E2B.5060507@mor-designs.com> References: <4A539E2B.5060507@mor-designs.com> Message-ID: Hi List! Everyone can stop replying. We have a winner - Bernd Pauli! :) I received several correct responses, but Bernd was the first (by barely a minute) to respond with all 3 correct answers. He are the questions and answers : 1) Okechobee is one of 5 approved meteorites from Florida. Okechobee was found in 1916 under somewhat unusual circumstances - it was not your typical find. Where and how was this L4 meteorite recovered? As stated in the Catalogue of Meteorites - "Fragments weighing about 1kg were brought up in a net some 0.75 miles from the shore..." Apparently this meteorite was underwater and raised by fishing nets. Now, what are the chances that a fisherman was going to see this apparent ugly rock as a meteorite and think to save it? I'd love to know the full story of this recovery. I can imagine that an L4 chondrite laying on the bottom of a body of water would be heavily oxidized and covered in algae. It probably didn't look like a meteorite at all - especially to a fisherman. Why didn't he throw it back? 2) Which of these lunar meteorites has the longest measured cosmic exposure age? Dhofar 025 or Kalahari 009? Dhofar 025 by far - Kalahari 009 is one of the youngest of cosmic exposure ages. 3) 1979 was a busy season for Japanese meteorite researchers in Antarctica. How many meteorites did they find that year in the Yamato Mountains area? A close number would suffice here. The Catalogue of Meteorites states that 3690 meteorites were recovered. The Met Bulletin states a slighty different figure. I would have accepted any number 3600 or greater. Bernd nailed it - he must have a copy of the Catalogue handy. ;) My thanks to everyone who responded! Best regards and clear skies, MikeG From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 16:03:48 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 16:03:48 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] PLEASE READ - If your emails weren't being replied to - MikeG email issue Message-ID: Hi Folks! Please read this. It was recently brought to my attention that my email account was bouncing back emails and I was receiving emails that never made it to my inbox - this has been going on for at least weeks, and possibly months. Briefly, here is what happened - The address "mike at galactic-stone.com" is a forwarding account. It sends all emails to my real personal address which is "meteoritemike at gmail.com". What I didn't realize was, is that my hosting account (which handles my email forwarding) was keeping copies of every email before it forwarded them. Apparently I had an inbox and a storage limit that I never knew about - so once this inbox finally filled up (with one gig of emails), it shut down. It quit forwarding emails to me and I never received any kind of notification or alert that my inbox was full or that emails were not being delivered. I have no idea how long this has been going on, but it's been happening for several weeks at least. Needless to say, I fixed the problem today and now my email should be working again - and I will now check my other phantom-inbox at least once a week. So, if you tried to email me or respond to one of my sale ads, and I never replied to you, then I never received your email. I *always* respond to every email I get from one of my friends and mailing list members - so if you don't get a reply within 24 hours, something is wrong. If you tried to reach me recently, please resend your email. I still have many specimens available from my last few email offers - because I wasn't getting the replies. Who knows how many sales I lost because of this! And I hope I didn't offend anyone or make them mad by not replying! :( Thanks for you patience and I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoritekid at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 16:04:40 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 13:04:40 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - AD - Beautiful split NWA meteorite (classified, numbered) closing tonight Message-ID: <93aaac890907071304n133c588ej10117d200350ba28@mail.gmail.com> Hello All, My first-ever ebay auction closes tonight shortly before 1am - here's the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=230353073435 There's only the one auction up at the moment, but I'll have some new ones up and running sometime in the next few days - you might check my ebay page in a day or so at: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/the_meteorite_hunter Thanks, Jason From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jul 7 16:58:09 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 07 Jul 2009 20:58:09 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] GIVEAWAY FREEBIE! - First Responder Gets It...!! Message-ID: MikeG. kindly wrote: "Hi Bernd! You are the winner!" Hello Mike and List, How about either donating this wonderful prize to one of your local schools, or, maybe even better, having teachers of one of your local schools organize a kind of contest - difficulty depending on schoolchildren's age and grade. The winner(s) might be tomorrow's meteoriticist(s) and my reward would be to see a photo of the winner(s) with his/her/their celestial booty and a happy smile on their face(s). The contest can but doesn't necessarily have to do with meteorites. It might also be something geography-related, or rocks and/or minerals in general, it might be about nature or natural phenomena, it might be about (local) geography or history. Example: You live in Louisiana and that name is, of course, derived from Louis XIV, Le Roi Soleil, the French absolute sovereign under whose reign French and British colonial interests clashed in the "New World". Just an idea, so, folks and MikeG. what do you think? Best from Germany, Bernd From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 17:29:14 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 17:29:14 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] GIVEAWAY FREEBIE! - First Responder Gets It...!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Bernd and List, That is very generous of you Bernd - of course the prize is your's to dispose of as you see fit. So if you want me to donate it on your behalf, then I will certainly do so. Also, my wife and I recently moved from Louisiana to sunny Florida. My wife's older sister took over our caregiving duties and we have moved to Florida to be near my stepkids (and new grandchild) who both live in Tampa. Holding my first grandchild has given me a new positive perspective on many things. :) I have plans to donate a sizeable type collection to a local school in the near future - probably a middle school or junior high school - old enough to better appreciate the subject, but not too old that they have already chosen their college path. So I am open to donating this prize to any worthy school that you suggest - it doesn't have to be local in Florida or even the US. Also, if you end up donating the prize, I will add some meteorites and other specimens to it to make the prize more substantial and useful for outreach. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG On 07 Jul 2009 20:58:09 UT, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > MikeG. kindly wrote: "Hi Bernd! You are the winner!" > > Hello Mike and List, > > How about either donating this wonderful prize to one of your local schools, > or, maybe even better, having teachers of one of your local schools organize > a kind of contest - difficulty depending on schoolchildren's age and grade. > > The winner(s) might be tomorrow's meteoriticist(s) and my reward would be > to see a photo of the winner(s) with his/her/their celestial booty and a > happy > smile on their face(s). > > The contest can but doesn't necessarily have to do with meteorites. It might > also be something geography-related, or rocks and/or minerals in general, it > might be about nature or natural phenomena, it might be about (local) > geography > or history. Example: You live in Louisiana and that name is, of course, > derived > from Louis XIV, Le Roi Soleil, the French absolute sovereign under whose > reign > French and British colonial interests clashed in the "New World". > > Just an idea, so, folks and MikeG. what do you think? > > Best from Germany, > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From mam602 at cox.net Tue Jul 7 18:23:07 2009 From: mam602 at cox.net (Mark) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:23:07 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Arizona Fall "a secret" References: <477943.77866.qm@web43504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6DF7A3FBE27E4DC3A0257C257A71DFFC@dce05032006> I know lots of people that are gold prospectors here in Arizona, they will take anyone anytime to teach them how to find gold. These same poeple guard their areas well and no amount of talking or liquer will persuade them to give up their best locations. I have found that if you show these people a willingness to work hard, walk for miles, sweat you ass off and not complain they will take you to the places they find the best gold. Greg, you are sounding a bit childish here. I do not hunt meteorites and I live in AZ. I do buy meteorites from time to time and I expect to pay for the hard work that goes into the recovery of the stones. I have been gold prospecting a couple of times and found that it was hours of back breaking work in the hot desert, digging in unforgiving ground only to find nothing. The same goes for finding meteorites, well except the digging for the most part. Gold is found WAY more easily than space rocks. I have been on this board for many years and I have always found that EVERYONE here is always willing to help, teach, instruct, and give all the info they have to anyone here who asks. PERHAPS I missed the post where you POLITELY asked to help, if so I apologize but so far all I have seen is WHINING. Perhaps if you were to offer your help and explain what you can, could or would be willing to contribute to a project, someone might step up and ask you along. Mark M. Phoenix AZ - Original Message ----- From: "Shauna Russell" To: Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 2:23 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Arizona Fall "a secret" ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Shauna Russell To: meteoritelist at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, July 5, 2009 2:15:05 PM Subject: Arizona Fall "a secret" This is in regards to "A secret" This new fall in Arizona is not being kept secret because of money. Why can't a group of friends who enjoy meteorite hunting and find a strewn field keep it within themselves?! Lets take a look back at West, Texas. Within a day of finding material, there were so many people tromping through peoples yards it was insane! (Soon we were getting kicked off of property that we had full permission to hunt on until it became flooded with treasure hunters and meteorite enthusiasts from all over) Having said that, we don't want a repeat of West right here in our own backyard. The material will be recovered, the data in regards to the strewn field will be preserved, unlike the usual chaos that ensues at a new fall. There are a number of places that people hunt at that are not open for everyone and their brother to jump into. It's sad that some people have to try to make an issue out of something wonderful. Like trying to make our group look bad because they can't be involved. Jack found the strewn field, Jack deserves to handle this the way he chooses without being ridiculed. Anyways, Robert and myself would like to congratulate Jack on this incredible recovery!!!! Sincerely, Shauna Russell www.ironfromthesky.com ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Tue Jul 7 18:25:28 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:25:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD? LL5-6 Polymict breccia? FREE for study/testing use only Message-ID: <240030.89012.qm@web46401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi to all, not sure if this would be an AD or not... As I did with the LL4 material (now NWA 5799), I have some nice cutting "scraps" to offer for places that can use them for study/testing/educational use. Please, no collectors or dealers, I would like these to go to places that can benifit from some free LL? material for study. This may well be LL5-6 Polymict Breccia, but the final results are not in yet. Some cutting has been done already and a few grams of fragments are waiting for someone to use. I have a limited amount, but as the stone was 1086g more will be available once more cutting is done - no worries, I will make this offer again if you miss out. Here is what the stone looks like: http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/1086g-1.jpg First come, first served - I will cover postage costs to anywhere in the world. Greg C. From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 7 20:46:54 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 17:46:54 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hi Walter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hope all goes well tomorrow. carl _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 7 21:01:34 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 18:01:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Google Earth Kmz file for July 6 Fireball PA available Message-ID: <976058.8157.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I have exported the plots of the 16 AMS reports as well as some Non AMS reports of significance and most of the towns where a witness made a report from. It is an 8kb file that you can import into Google Earth. Should work on PC or Mac. Possibly iPhones. The purpose of this file is to consolidate reports to aid searchers in knowing the situation so they can form their own plans. I did not have time to revisit each AMS report to annotate if they heard a boom, sorry but I'd like to get this to researchers. Notation: NAMS=a report gleaned from a blog there are more but mostly repetition and don't add to the missing info. 371* is the AMS report set for this fireball-- in this case a thru t. On a colored path if there is only a single bearing mentioned it is plotted as either 371#SE or C. Reports having an arc are 371#S for START or E for END. They may be different colors. There are 3-5 reports that don't plot into the others well and I attribute those to witnesses that erred on their own ground orientation. "PA FB 6Jul2009 V01.kmz" for the initial release successive updates will have V02, 03 etc. Comments/Details are in the popup window when you click on a particular place mark. (one observer--probably ex-military, looked immediately at his computer screen and reports the time as 1:06) Most NAMS reports are included to show if there was a boom or not and weather concurrent or delayed. Note one report of possible electrophonic sound. I can mail this out to whomever wants BUT if someone(s) can host it on their site and post the list the link, I'd be beholding as I am up to my behind in deadlines. Remember you have to have the free application called Google Earth and an internet connection. Please give me feedback as to any glitches in this file. Expert advice welcome. BTW is anyone getting the weather and winds aloft data sets? Please let me know off list. Elton From damoclid at yahoo.com Tue Jul 7 21:38:53 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 18:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Google Earth Kmz file for July 6 Fireball PA available Message-ID: <146214.58940.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Elton has sent me his kmz file for Google Earth. It is available on my website at the following location: http://fullmoonphotography.net/images/Meteorites/PA_Fall_200907.htm The link to the file is at the very bottom of the page. Good Hunting all! -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Mr EMan wrote: > From: Mr EMan > Subject: [meteorite-list] Google Earth Kmz file for July 6 Fireball PA available > To: "metlist" , "MetObs" > Cc: mstreman53 at yahoo.com > Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:01 PM > > I have exported the plots of the 16 AMS reports as well as > some Non AMS reports of significance and most of the towns > where a witness made a report from. It is an 8kb file that > you can import into Google Earth. Should work on PC or Mac. > Possibly iPhones. The purpose of this file is to consolidate > reports to aid searchers in knowing the situation so they > can form their own plans.? I did not have time to > revisit each AMS report to annotate if they heard a boom, > sorry but I'd like to get this to researchers. > > Notation: > NAMS=a report gleaned from a blog? there are more but > mostly repetition and don't add to the missing info. > > 371* is the AMS report set for this fireball-- in this case > a thru t. > On a colored path if there is only a single bearing > mentioned it is plotted as either 371#SE or C. Reports > having an arc are 371#S for START or E for END. They may be > different colors. There are 3-5 reports that don't plot into > the others well and I attribute those to witnesses that > erred on their own ground orientation. "PA FB 6Jul2009 > V01.kmz" for the initial release successive updates will > have V02, 03? etc. > > Comments/Details are in the popup window when you click on > a particular place mark. (one observer--probably > ex-military, looked immediately at his computer screen and > reports the time as 1:06) Most NAMS reports are included to > show if there was a boom or not and weather concurrent or > delayed.? Note one report of possible electrophonic > sound.? > > I can mail this out to whomever wants BUT if someone(s) can > host it on their site and post the list the link, I'd be > beholding as I am up to my behind in deadlines.? > Remember you have to have the free application called Google > Earth and an internet connection. > > Please give me feedback as to any glitches in this file. > Expert advice welcome. > > BTW is anyone getting the weather and winds aloft data > sets? Please let me know off list. > > Elton > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From majesticmeteorites at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 21:34:34 2009 From: majesticmeteorites at gmail.com (Whitney Riner) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 21:34:34 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Google Earth Kmz file for July 6 Fireball PA available Message-ID: The Kmz file and info are posted here: http://drop.io/meteoritechat Get google earth here: http://earth.google.com Surveillance video of the fireball has been posted: http://www.wgal.com/news/19966650/detail.html Best wishes and a speedy recovery to Dr. Branch -Whitney From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 7 23:43:06 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 23:43:06 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] PLEASE READ - If your emails weren't being replied to - MikeG email issue In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One gig?! 640K ought to be enough for anybody! ---------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 16:03:48 -0400 > From: meteoritemike at gmail.com > To: mike at galactic-stone.com > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] PLEASE READ - If your emails weren't being replied to - MikeG email issue > > Hi Folks! > > Please read this. > > It was recently brought to my attention that my email account was > bouncing back emails and I was receiving emails that never made it to > my inbox - this has been going on for at least weeks, and possibly > months. Briefly, here is what happened - > > The address "mike at galactic-stone.com" is a forwarding account. It > sends all emails to my real personal address which is > "meteoritemike at gmail.com". What I didn't realize was, is that my > hosting account (which handles my email forwarding) was keeping copies > of every email before it forwarded them. Apparently I had an inbox > and a storage limit that I never knew about - so once this inbox > finally filled up (with one gig of emails), it shut down. It quit > forwarding emails to me and I never received any kind of notification > or alert that my inbox was full or that emails were not being > delivered. I have no idea how long this has been going on, but it's > been happening for several weeks at least. > > Needless to say, I fixed the problem today and now my email should be > working again - and I will now check my other phantom-inbox at least > once a week. > > So, if you tried to email me or respond to one of my sale ads, and I > never replied to you, then I never received your email. I *always* > respond to every email I get from one of my friends and mailing list > members - so if you don't get a reply within 24 hours, something is > wrong. > > If you tried to reach me recently, please resend your email. I still > have many specimens available from my last few email offers - because > I wasn't getting the replies. Who knows how many sales I lost because > of this! And I hope I didn't offend anyone or make them mad by not > replying! :( > > Thanks for you patience and I apologize for any confusion this may have caused. > > Best regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666046 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Wed Jul 8 00:41:06 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 00:41:06 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 8, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_8_2009.html __________________________ **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) From lintonius at earthlink.net Wed Jul 8 01:53:47 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 22:53:47 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA Message-ID: <3C4087BB3DEE44BFA1E9518B4B74B205@D190TH71> Good evening folks. I just saw a post on Astromart from Mike Hankey of Freeland, Maryland concerning this fireball. He was shooting exposures of Andromeda and inadvertently captured the meteor. He was on the evening news, with his photo. This might be helpful in determining the trajectory, given the starfield and M31 as orientation. Andromeda must have been quite low at that hour. I'm surprised he was imaging it, but I'm glad he was! I'll attach the text of his post. He can be contacted through his blog. Good luck guys! Linton ____________________________________________________________ I took a picture of a big meteor over baltimore using my 90mm refractor and DSLR camera. This picture got me on TV! http://wjz.com/seenon/meteor.2.1074217.html (video on right hand side) I want to try to figure out the trajectory of the meteor based on the picture I took, but i'm not sure how to do this or where to start. I'm tracking this story on my blog http://www.mikesastrophotos.com Any help or tips with trying to determine the trajectory are greatly appreciated. From drtanuki at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 05:53:52 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 02:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Seismic Data search for 6JUL09 meteor Message-ID: <199684.6749.qm@web53102.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List, Anyone with time and patience to search for seismic data related to the July 6, 2009 meteor in Pennsylvania, Maryland please check: http://almaty.ldgo.columbia.edu:8080/data.request.htm#sta_map?76,175 Dirk Ross...Tokyo From P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk Wed Jul 8 07:02:08 2009 From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk (Peter Davidson) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 12:02:08 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies Message-ID: This is my first posting on this list - please be gentle with me. I have only been on the list a matter of a week or so and I seemed to have walked into a veritable storm. I would like to share my views with you as a curator. Please forgive this rather long mail. Taking a posting from Martin Altmann dated 7th July as my starting point, here goes. I have never heard a law being described as "exotic". Do you mean idiotic? I can in no way speak on behalf of all curators, far less Australian ones. I can only give you my own viewpoint but I do know many curators from Australia, mostly mineralogists, and please believe me when I tell you they are fine people and not the narrow-minded, nationalistic people hinted at in a number of e-mails. I also noted that Martin Altmann stated that everybody on the list was a "lousy layman" which is not only patently untrue but just a little sexist. But I digress. Curators are every bit as dedicated to their collections as private collectors are. We are not faceless bureaucrats (or similar) existing in some Kafkaesque nightmare world hidebound by rules, and seeking to restrict everyone else by creating a spider's web of red tape to trap the unwary. That notion is as ridiculous to me as the presumption that all dealers (minerals or meteorites) are shady and unscrupulous. As a curator at a National Museum, I am obligated by law (yes, I know!) to preserve and protect the collections of the museum and by extension, the nation. I choose to do this. I work in the museum because I want to. Every curator I have met shares with me a love of the specimens that they curate. We also share a passionate believe that it is our duty to bring our collections to the notice and attention of the public, and to make them available to researchers and other curators. Believe me when I tell you that museum curators/conservators are not well paid. We do it for love - well mostly. When I joined the museum in 1975, I also had to undertake never to start and build up my own collection. The collections of the museum ARE my collections. I also feel that Martin overstates the influence scientist have at governmental level. Yes, some scientists are asked to advise on certain matters, but in the end it is the politician that decides. My observations of this hated group, politicians that is, leads me to surmise that if some short term political advantage can be gained by appealing to the masses, fed to satedness by a largely right-wing populist press (the tabloids in the UK), then they will always take that course of action, no matter what the consequences are. This very often goes against the advice of scientists/curators and negates many decades of good interaction between the public and private sectors. As I mineralogist, I am painfully aware that the market for display quality specimens has now passed beyond the reach of publicly-funded museums. The meteorite market is no different. Nonetheless, as a curator at a National Museum, and I hope you can understand this point of view, there is a duty to collect for the Nation everything we can in order that we can research, interpret and explain to the people of Scotland, its historical, sociological, artistic and scientific heritage. The question raised by many contributors to the list is: should meteorites fall into that category? Clearly the Australian Government thought so, and so did the UK Government in the 1960's when legislation was introduced to Parliament but never passed into law. We already do our utmost to protect other geological sites. This policy is well intentioned and it can be argued that "fixed" geological outcrops, either mineralogical or palaeontological are a finite resource. If unscrupulous collectors plunder the site and remove all the material, then it is lost forever. Meteorites are different in that they are not "fixed" but are random in the sense that they can fall at any time, in any place. However, from my point of view as a curator, ought I to have the desire to possess in the National Collection, a sample of each of the four Scottish falls? I do have that desire and the fact that the museum doesn't possess all Scottish meteorites leads to a feeling of both consternation and frustration. But it is a situation I accept Why don't you go and collect them yourself I hear you asking. Well, the short answer is - we would love to. We do go on collecting trips, but these are limited by budgetary constraints primarily, but also by the general workload faced by all curators. This is why we have tried to build a network of private collectors across the country that will work with is to the benefit of both parties. But the inescapable fact is that the market in geological specimens has moved onto a level which museums find it difficult to operate in. We rely to a large extent on donations or possibly exchange. Private collectors know that they can sell their specimens on the open market and receive a much better price than a museum can offer. I was heartened to hear that some private collectors and dealers are in favour of a greater collaboration with scientists and museums. All of us who love meteorites need to continue to work closely. We require the raw material to undertake research, and this gets fed back to the public through our publications. Scientists do find new information in old specimens; we would not be scientists if we did not constantly search for new data. But I would just like to finish with this thought. Many young people are familiar with meteorites through the media and the internet, but for many, the only opportunity they get to see and touch them is through museums and their curators. Many indeed of the list members may have been inspired to go and collect by seeing meteorites in a museum. Martin. Please do not take this as a personal attack. I find your e-mails well agued and thoughtful. Indeed it was your email that inspired me to pen this message. I have spoken about this in other lists, in other places. The meteorites will continue to fall, long after we are all gone. There should be enough for everyone. Don't forget us! All donations gratefully accepted. Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals ? National Museums Collection Centre National Museums Scotland 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Phone: +44?131 247 4283 p.davidson at nms.ac.uk www.nms.ac.uk ? ? Garden Detectives. Unearthing nature?s little secrets. 26 Jun ? 27 Sep. Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 8 09:28:50 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 06:28:50 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: AUCTIONS END TODAY! SALE ENDS TODAY- 10% to 50% OFF IN EBAY STORE! SIGNIFICANT DEALS ABOUND! References: <2A9465E8-A438-4A4A-B86F-6B448702A32F@gilanet.com> Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: michael cottingham > Date: July 7, 2009 8:51:30 PM GMT-07:00 > Subject: AD: AUCTIONS END TODAY! SALE ENDS TODAY- 10% to 50% OFF IN > EBAY STORE! SIGNIFICANT DEALS ABOUND! > > > >> >> >> Hello, >> >> Worth A look! I think this is one of my BEST SALES OF THE SUMMER! >> Rare Books, Rare Meteorites, A 10% to 50% Off Select Items. >> >> >> >> TO SEE ALL DISCOUNTS 10% to 50% Off! >> >> http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history >> >> >> ALL AUCTIONS ENDING WEDS/8th >> >> http://shop.ebay.com:80/merchant/meteorite-collector_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ >> >> >> Awesome Auctions Started At - 0.99 cents! >> >> THE FAMOUS RED BOOKS! >> >> BOOK RARE-Catalog Of Antarctic Meteorites >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358460702 >> >> BOOK RARE/Photographic Catalog of Antarctic Meteorites >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358807521 >> >> >> ASH CREEK OR WEST, TEXAS Specimens! >> >> (Ash Creek) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 22.53g >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358709028 >> >> (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 2.50g >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358684542 >> >> (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 17.76g--- THIS ONE IS NOT >> GOING LOWER--- >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358806474 >> >> (NEW) NWA 5530, H5, Large Slice, 486 gram BIG BIG SLICE! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358726383 >> >> Outstanding Silicated Iron, NWA 5549, 10.46g -The Best Silicated >> Iron Around! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358620007 >> >> (New) NWA 5059, L4, 1592 gram, Main Mass !!! A BIG SPECIMEN! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358661449 >> >> Witnessed Fall THUATHE, Lesotho, 10.37 g >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358487120 >> >> Beautiful Translucent Slice BRENHAM 9.39g >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358748893 >> >> Nice TOLUCA Iron Individual, Mexico, 260 g >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358690070 >> >> (NEW), LA LUZ, New Mexico, H4, LTKW, 19.75g, NEXT TO LAST AVAILABLE >> SLICE! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358693452 >> >> Super Rare JELICA, Fall From Serbia, LL6, ONLY SPECIMEN I HAVE! >> Very Rare. >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358671134 >> >> (NEW) Ungrouped Ataxite, GRIFFITH, TX, 25.49g, A Real Beauty! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358183905 >> >> New Fall- TAMDAKHT, H5, 123.61g Lot of Frags- NICE GROUP OF >> SPECIMENS GOING CHEAP! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358183049 >> >> (New) WILBUR WASH, Az., L6, Slice, 38.65 gram - ONE OF THE LAST >> LARGE SLICES! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358185355 >> >> (New) Olivine Diogenite-NWA 5480, 1.19 gram -RARE & COOL! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358182712 >> >> Rare Carbonaceous CO3.6, NWA 1277, 2.12 gram >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358183251 >> >> New Fall- TAMDAKHT, H5, 8.04 gram, With Crust, Really Nice Piece! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358487411 >> >> (NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 98.18g, One Of My Last >> Specimens! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358486521 >> >> Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 1.73g >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358342214 >> >> Very Rare DHOFAR 007,Cumulate Eucrite, 5.85g, Super Nice! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358681752 >> >> Rare & Low TKW, DAVY (B), Texas, H4, 4.49g- Nice Slice! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358186309 >> >> Seldom Available SOUSLOVO, Russia, L4, 1.53g MUST TAKE A LOOK- Cool >> Looking Chondrule! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358186625 >> >> (New) NWA 5059, L4, 192 gram, Nice End Cut ! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358679168 >> >> (New) NWA 4734, Lunar Specimen Display! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358187638 >> >> >> Of Course There Is A Lot More! >> >> Thanks and Best Wishes >> >> Michael Cottingham >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > From drtanuki at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 10:30:06 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 07:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Seismic Data search for 6JUL09 meteor Message-ID: <677047.70730.qm@web53112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Steve, That is correct. A triangulation of three or more points will pin down your point of impact. This certainly COULD also be used in Arizona to locate the secret area 51 producing the H5s?. Steve if you are lucky you may be able to find a seismologist that would do the work for you. Contact the group at the University in Penn or Maryland or both. For the Arizona impact location do a search for seismic data (USGS) sites in Arizona and find the data for the time and day of impact. Best All, Dirk...Tokyo This has been used before to locate impact sites so it is not new technology. --- On Wed, 7/8/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Seismic Data search for 6JUL09 meteor > To: drtanuki at yahoo.com > Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 10:30 PM > > > > > > > > In a message dated 7/8/2009 4:54:07 A.M. Central > Daylight Time, > drtanuki at yahoo.com writes: > > Dear > List, > ? Anyone with time and patience to search for seismic > data > related to the July 6, 2009 meteor in Pennsylvania, > Maryland please > check: > http://almaty.ldgo.columbia.edu:8080/data.request.htm#sta_map?76,175 > > Dirk > Ross...Tokyo > > Dirk, > ? > I have never done this before.? Does one have to > search for data then > triangulate it themselves? > > Steve Popular > laptop deals plus free shipping! > From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Wed Jul 8 11:01:20 2009 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 16:01:20 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4967B1FE@gamma.ssl.atw> Also we should never underestimate the contribution made to science by collectors! This is particularly true of meteorites, if no-one collected them, and created the resources needed for hunting them, our museum draws would actually be much emptier I suspect - Yes the market price would (arguably) be a little bit lower but how exactly does that help find more meteorites?? Imho, one of the reasons the market prices keep going up (particularly with historic artifacts) is newly found stuff simply flows in one direction into museum collections and archives. further limiting the market availability, this will only get worse if the supply of material to collectors gets even further choked off, by stupid blanket laws - for example if museums where allowed to trade and sell off some of the artifacts that are not needed then the market value would drop to sensible levels. (Ironically, there are countless thousands of useless orphaned contextless artifacts, that can serve no useful purpose sitting in museum draws all over the world, some are probably worth a small fortune on the open market - surely we should consider using some of this to fund much more important work, before we target private collectors). I believe we actually all have a personal responsibility to only keep and collect what we actually need to collect, museums included, that way everyone gets the chance to own these treasures without needing a mortgage, After all there is only so much to go round. Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Peter Davidson Sent: 08 July 2009 12:02 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies This is my first posting on this list - please be gentle with me. I have only been on the list a matter of a week or so and I seemed to have walked into a veritable storm. I would like to share my views with you as a curator. Please forgive this rather long mail. Taking a posting from Martin Altmann dated 7th July as my starting point, here goes. I have never heard a law being described as "exotic". Do you mean idiotic? I can in no way speak on behalf of all curators, far less Australian ones. I can only give you my own viewpoint but I do know many curators from Australia, mostly mineralogists, and please believe me when I tell you they are fine people and not the narrow-minded, nationalistic people hinted at in a number of e-mails. I also noted that Martin Altmann stated that everybody on the list was a "lousy layman" which is not only patently untrue but just a little sexist. But I digress. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. 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Company No 1800317 From jkellybeatty at comcast.net Thu Jul 9 14:08:40 2009 From: jkellybeatty at comcast.net (Kelly Beatty) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 11:08:40 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Seismic Data search for 6JUL09 meteor In-Reply-To: <677047.70730.qm@web53112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <677047.70730.qm@web53112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40FA12327EE546309EE3A6DB7A5D2201@NightSkyGuy> folks... my take: this putative fall is unlikely to generate a seismic signal if pieces hit the ground at terminal free-fall velocity (several hundred mph for really large chunks, much less for smaller ones). meanwhile, I've analyzed Mike Hankey's photo. assuming the bolide was 1:10 am local time and "falling from the sky", as reports indicate, then the meteor segment in the image he took was centered at AZ 73?, AL 63??, and had a bearing toward the east-northeast horizon. clear skies, Kelly **************** J. Kelly Beatty Senior Contributing Editor SKY & TELESCOPE 617-416-9991 SkyandTelescope.com From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov Wed Jul 8 11:24:05 2009 From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 08:24:05 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Seismic Data search for 6JUL09 meteor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: So we?ve got folks looking over the seismic data, an astronomer?s take on the still photo, a nice .kmz by Elton... This is turning into a real ?stone soup? fireball event. I?m diggin? it. Cheers, Marc Fries On 7/9/09 11:08 AM, "Kelly Beatty" wrote: > folks... > > my take: this putative fall is unlikely to generate a seismic signal if > pieces hit the ground at terminal free-fall velocity (several hundred mph > for really large chunks, much less for smaller ones). > > meanwhile, I've analyzed Mike Hankey's photo. assuming the bolide was 1:10 > am local time and "falling from the sky", as reports indicate, then the > meteor segment in the image he took was centered at AZ 73?, AL 63??, and had > a bearing toward the east-northeast horizon. > > > clear skies, > Kelly > > **************** > J. Kelly Beatty > Senior Contributing Editor > SKY & TELESCOPE > 617-416-9991 > SkyandTelescope.com > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ------ End of Forwarded Message From drtanuki at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 12:00:25 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 09:00:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Seismic Data search for 6JUL09 meteor Message-ID: <245521.41470.qm@web53107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Marc, Who is going to follow up on the seismic data? I can assist then to a point. Best Regards, Dirk...Tokyo NEXRAD Radar in one post on my blog did not show anything but the operator may have not had the skill to interpret the data? --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Fries, Marc D wrote: > From: Fries, Marc D > Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Seismic Data search for 6JUL09 meteor > To: "List" > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 12:24 AM > > So we?ve got folks looking over the seismic data, an > astronomer?s take on > the still photo, a nice .kmz by Elton...? This is > turning into a real ?stone > soup? fireball event.???I?m diggin? it. > > Cheers, > Marc Fries > > > On 7/9/09 11:08 AM, "Kelly Beatty" > wrote: > > > folks... > > > > my take: this putative fall is unlikely to generate a > seismic signal if > > pieces hit the ground at terminal free-fall velocity > (several hundred mph > > for really large chunks, much less for smaller ones). > > > > meanwhile, I've analyzed Mike Hankey's photo. assuming > the bolide was 1:10 > > am local time and "falling from the sky", as reports > indicate, then the > > meteor segment in the image he took was centered at AZ > 73?, AL 63??, and had > > a bearing toward the east-northeast horizon. > > > > > > clear skies, > > Kelly > > > > **************** > > J. Kelly Beatty > > Senior Contributing Editor > > SKY & TELESCOPE > > 617-416-9991 > > SkyandTelescope.com > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > ------ End of Forwarded Message > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 12:04:35 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 12:04:35 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Peter, Welcome to the List. :) I do not speak for the list or a majority on it, so take my reply with the appropriate grain (or block) of salt. ;) I am an avid collector of meteorites and minerals (primarily meteorites), and I am also a happily married man. I mention the fact that I am married because there are parallels between the position of the married collector and the curator. I too operate within a strict budget and a set of rules that governs my ability to acquire and trade specimens. I do not mean to make light of the matter, but simply to say that I understand the necessity of balancing budget concerns and working within a framework of acceptable trading practices. Some wealthier collectors don't have this concern or it manifests to a lesser degree in their collecting. I want to thank you for taking the time to speak up and share your views on this issue as it effects the meteorite world. Speaking strictly as a collector, I would have little idea how to contact a museum or curator to begin establishing a working relationship that could include the exchange of specimens. The bigger and more established dealers are not going to broadcast their methods and connections to the rest of the world, so the next generation of major collectors is left in a position of ignorance regarding how to conduct business with museums and institutions. We either figure it out ourselves through trial and error, or we rely on the bigger and better-connected dealers to trade with the museums and then wait for the specimens to trickle down through the open marketplace. For example, how does a private collector approach a curator to open a dialogue? Does one just Google the museum and get a street address, phone number, or email address? And then contact the curator directly? Many private collectors think such direct contact would be frowned upon because the private collector may not have any official credentials - academic or otherwise. We would not want to waste the curator's time or make trouble for the museum staff. Also, I don't have any idea what kind of rules govern the trade between private individuals and museums/institutions. For example, I have a list of trading partners I have cultivated during my time of collecting. We often exchange specimens and the method involves the "honor system". If I say to my private trading partner - "I really like your slice of Barwell L5 chondrite, would you accept this fragment of Wold Cottage in trade for it?" - and if the deal is agreed upon, we simply pack up the specimen and mail it to the other party. There is no escrow or legal contacts involved - simply a gentleman's agreement that each person will live up to their end of the bargain. At any point, one person could fail to live up to their part and steal the other party's specimen - it's a risk of trading in this manner. (although it has never happened to me in countless trades) As a private collector, I would assume that museums and institutions that use public funds cannot conduct business in such a manner as private parties do. Surely there must be a vetting process of some kind to determine the reliability of the private part, paperwork, etc. Such stipulations, real or imagined, deter me from trying from conducting trades with museums, universities, and the like. I am one of those collectors who would love to see greater networking and cooperation between every member of the meteorite community - layperson and professional. But I am also one of those collectors who has little idea how to go about doing it. Perhaps this List is the perfect place to start. :) Best regards, MikeG On 7/8/09, Peter Davidson wrote: > This is my first posting on this list - please be gentle with me. I have > only been on the list a matter of a week or so and I seemed to have walked > into a veritable storm. I would like to share my views with you as a > curator. Please forgive this rather long mail. > > > > Taking a posting from Martin Altmann dated 7th July as my starting point, > here goes. > > > > I have never heard a law being described as "exotic". Do you mean idiotic? > > > > I can in no way speak on behalf of all curators, far less Australian ones. I > can only give you my own viewpoint but I do know many curators from > Australia, mostly mineralogists, and please believe me when I tell you they > are fine people and not the narrow-minded, nationalistic people hinted at in > a number of e-mails. I also noted that Martin Altmann stated that everybody > on the list was a "lousy layman" which is not only patently untrue but just > a little sexist. But I digress. > > > > Curators are every bit as dedicated to their collections as private > collectors are. We are not faceless bureaucrats (or similar) existing in > some Kafkaesque nightmare world hidebound by rules, and seeking to restrict > everyone else by creating a spider's web of red tape to trap the unwary. > That notion is as ridiculous to me as the presumption that all dealers > (minerals or meteorites) are shady and unscrupulous. As a curator at a > National Museum, I am obligated by law (yes, I know!) to preserve and > protect the collections of the museum and by extension, the nation. I choose > to do this. I work in the museum because I want to. Every curator I have met > shares with me a love of the specimens that they curate. We also share a > passionate believe that it is our duty to bring our collections to the > notice and attention of the public, and to make them available to > researchers and other curators. Believe me when I tell you that museum > curators/conservators are not well paid. We do it for love - well mostly. > When I joined the museum in 1975, I also had to undertake never to start and > build up my own collection. The collections of the museum ARE my > collections. > > > > I also feel that Martin overstates the influence scientist have at > governmental level. Yes, some scientists are asked to advise on certain > matters, but in the end it is the politician that decides. My observations > of this hated group, politicians that is, leads me to surmise that if some > short term political advantage can be gained by appealing to the masses, fed > to satedness by a largely right-wing populist press (the tabloids in the > UK), then they will always take that course of action, no matter what the > consequences are. This very often goes against the advice of > scientists/curators and negates many decades of good interaction between the > public and private sectors. As I mineralogist, I am painfully aware that the > market for display quality specimens has now passed beyond the reach of > publicly-funded museums. The meteorite market is no different. > > > > Nonetheless, as a curator at a National Museum, and I hope you can > understand this point of view, there is a duty to collect for the Nation > everything we can in order that we can research, interpret and explain to > the people of Scotland, its historical, sociological, artistic and > scientific heritage. The question raised by many contributors to the list > is: should meteorites fall into that category? Clearly the Australian > Government thought so, and so did the UK Government in the 1960's when > legislation was introduced to Parliament but never passed into law. > > > > We already do our utmost to protect other geological sites. This policy is > well intentioned and it can be argued that "fixed" geological outcrops, > either mineralogical or palaeontological are a finite resource. If > unscrupulous collectors plunder the site and remove all the material, then > it is lost forever. Meteorites are different in that they are not "fixed" > but are random in the sense that they can fall at any time, in any place. > However, from my point of view as a curator, ought I to have the desire to > possess in the National Collection, a sample of each of the four Scottish > falls? I do have that desire and the fact that the museum doesn't possess > all Scottish meteorites leads to a feeling of both consternation and > frustration. But it is a situation I accept > > > > Why don't you go and collect them yourself I hear you asking. Well, the > short answer is - we would love to. We do go on collecting trips, but these > are limited by budgetary constraints primarily, but also by the general > workload faced by all curators. This is why we have tried to build a network > of private collectors across the country that will work with is to the > benefit of both parties. But the inescapable fact is that the market in > geological specimens has moved onto a level which museums find it difficult > to operate in. We rely to a large extent on donations or possibly exchange. > Private collectors know that they can sell their specimens on the open > market and receive a much better price than a museum can offer. > > > > I was heartened to hear that some private collectors and dealers are in > favour of a greater collaboration with scientists and museums. All of us who > love meteorites need to continue to work closely. We require the raw > material to undertake research, and this gets fed back to the public through > our publications. Scientists do find new information in old specimens; we > would not be scientists if we did not constantly search for new data. But I > would just like to finish with this thought. Many young people are familiar > with meteorites through the media and the internet, but for many, the only > opportunity they get to see and touch them is through museums and their > curators. Many indeed of the list members may have been inspired to go and > collect by seeing meteorites in a museum. > > > > Martin. Please do not take this as a personal attack. I find your e-mails > well agued and thoughtful. Indeed it was your email that inspired me to pen > this message. I have spoken about this in other lists, in other places. The > meteorites will continue to fall, long after we are all gone. There should > be enough for everyone. > > > > Don't forget us! > > > > All donations gratefully accepted. > > Peter Davidson > Curator of Minerals > > National Museums Collection Centre > National Museums Scotland > 242 West Granton Road > Edinburgh > EH5 1JA > Phone: +44 131 247 4283 > p.davidson at nms.ac.uk > www.nms.ac.uk > > > > > Garden Detectives. Unearthing nature?s little secrets. 26 Jun ? 27 Sep. > Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden > > National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 > > This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the > addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the > author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. > This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of > Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that > may be caused to your systems or data by this message. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Wed Jul 8 11:46:26 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 09:46:26 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Seismic Data search for 6JUL09 meteor References: <677047.70730.qm@web53112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <40FA12327EE546309EE3A6DB7A5D2201@NightSkyGuy> Message-ID: Impacts don't create seismic events (unless they are hypervelocity, in which case they are easily located by the resulting crater!). The seismic events sometimes recorded are produced by atmospheric shock waves created by the fireball. And like video records, they only help establish a location for a segment of the path, and not the final position of any strewn field (which can be substantially in front of, behind, or to the side of the terminal explosion location). Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly Beatty" To: Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Seismic Data search for 6JUL09 meteor folks... my take: this putative fall is unlikely to generate a seismic signal if pieces hit the ground at terminal free-fall velocity (several hundred mph for really large chunks, much less for smaller ones). meanwhile, I've analyzed Mike Hankey's photo. assuming the bolide was 1:10 am local time and "falling from the sky", as reports indicate, then the meteor segment in the image he took was centered at AZ 73?, AL 63??, and had a bearing toward the east-northeast horizon. clear skies, Kelly **************** J. Kelly Beatty Senior Contributing Editor SKY & TELESCOPE 617-416-9991 SkyandTelescope.com From jbaxter112 at pol.net Wed Jul 8 12:08:51 2009 From: jbaxter112 at pol.net (James Baxter) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 12:08:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies In-Reply-To: <404315623.656891247056294409.JavaMail.root@zmcs01l-pol-08.portal.webmd.com> Message-ID: <746326697.700851247069331331.JavaMail.root@zmcs01l-pol-08.portal.webmd.com> Hello Peter, Welcome to the list. Thanks for your contribution. It is nice to get a curator's perspective. I'm sure most if not all list members are envious of your job and support your work. I do feel you have not answered Martin's central argument that if laws prohibiting export were not in place your Australian colleagues would have far more material to study through dealer and collector contributions and trades. As a humble private collector I like to think I am supporting (or at least not depriving) the public institutions' collections. I know many of the dealers I support with my purchases have donated or traded large amounts of material to public institutions. This may be simple rationalization, but I do feel Martin's numbers regarding finds in the US compared to Australia imply that we collectors are likely increasing rather than decreasing the amount of material available to these institutions. I would love to hear your thoughts about whether you feel this argument is valid. Best Wishes, Jim Baxter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Davidson" To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 4:02:08 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies This is my first posting on this list - please be gentle with me. I have only been on the list a matter of a week or so and I seemed to have walked into a veritable storm. I would like to share my views with you as a curator. Please forgive this rather long mail. Taking a posting from Martin Altmann dated 7th July as my starting point, here goes. I have never heard a law being described as "exotic". Do you mean idiotic? I can in no way speak on behalf of all curators, far less Australian ones. I can only give you my own viewpoint but I do know many curators from Australia, mostly mineralogists, and please believe me when I tell you they are fine people and not the narrow-minded, nationalistic people hinted at in a number of e-mails. I also noted that Martin Altmann stated that everybody on the list was a "lousy layman" which is not only patently untrue but just a little sexist. But I digress. Curators are every bit as dedicated to their collections as private collectors are. We are not faceless bureaucrats (or similar) existing in some Kafkaesque nightmare world hidebound by rules, and seeking to restrict everyone else by creating a spider's web of red tape to trap the unwary. That notion is as ridiculous to me as the presumption that all dealers (minerals or meteorites) are shady and unscrupulous. As a curator at a National Museum, I am obligated by law (yes, I know!) to preserve and protect the collections of the museum and by extension, the nation. I choose to do this. I work in the museum because I want to. Every curator I have met shares with me a love of the specimens that they curate. We also share a passionate believe that it is our duty to bring our collections to the notice and attention of the public, and to make them available to researchers and other curators. Believe me when I tell you that museum curators/conservators are not well paid. We do it for love - well mostly. When I joined the museum in 1975, I also had to undertake never to start and build up my own collection. The collections of the museum ARE my collections. I also feel that Martin overstates the influence scientist have at governmental level. Yes, some scientists are asked to advise on certain matters, but in the end it is the politician that decides. My observations of this hated group, politicians that is, leads me to surmise that if some short term political advantage can be gained by appealing to the masses, fed to satedness by a largely right-wing populist press (the tabloids in the UK), then they will always take that course of action, no matter what the consequences are. This very often goes against the advice of scientists/curators and negates many decades of good interaction between the public and private sectors. As I mineralogist, I am painfully aware that the market for display quality specimens has now passed beyond the reach of publicly-funded museums. The meteorite market is no different. Nonetheless, as a curator at a National Museum, and I hope you can understand this point of view, there is a duty to collect for the Nation everything we can in order that we can research, interpret and explain to the people of Scotland, its historical, sociological, artistic and scientific heritage. The question raised by many contributors to the list is: should meteorites fall into that category? Clearly the Australian Government thought so, and so did the UK Government in the 1960's when legislation was introduced to Parliament but never passed into law. We already do our utmost to protect other geological sites. This policy is well intentioned and it can be argued that "fixed" geological outcrops, either mineralogical or palaeontological are a finite resource. If unscrupulous collectors plunder the site and remove all the material, then it is lost forever. Meteorites are different in that they are not "fixed" but are random in the sense that they can fall at any time, in any place. However, from my point of view as a curator, ought I to have the desire to possess in the National Collection, a sample of each of the four Scottish falls? I do have that desire and the fact that the museum doesn't possess all Scottish meteorites leads to a feeling of both consternation and frustration. But it is a situation I accept Why don't you go and collect them yourself I hear you asking. Well, the short answer is - we would love to. We do go on collecting trips, but these are limited by budgetary constraints primarily, but also by the general workload faced by all curators. This is why we have tried to build a network of private collectors across the country that will work with is to the benefit of both parties. But the inescapable fact is that the market in geological specimens has moved onto a level which museums find it difficult to operate in. We rely to a large extent on donations or possibly exchange. Private collectors know that they can sell their specimens on the open market and receive a much better price than a museum can offer. I was heartened to hear that some private collectors and dealers are in favour of a greater collaboration with scientists and museums. All of us who love meteorites need to continue to work closely. We require the raw material to undertake research, and this gets fed back to the public through our publications. Scientists do find new information in old specimens; we would not be scientists if we did not constantly search for new data. But I would just like to finish with this thought. Many young people are familiar with meteorites through the media and the internet, but for many, the only opportunity they get to see and touch them is through museums and their curators. Many indeed of the list members may have been inspired to go and collect by seeing meteorites in a museum. Martin. Please do not take this as a personal attack. I find your e-mails well agued and thoughtful. Indeed it was your email that inspired me to pen this message. I have spoken about this in other lists, in other places. The meteorites will continue to fall, long after we are all gone. There should be enough for everyone. Don't forget us! All donations gratefully accepted. Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals ? National Museums Collection Centre National Museums Scotland 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Phone: +44?131 247 4283 p.davidson at nms.ac.uk www.nms.ac.uk ? ? Garden Detectives. Unearthing nature?s little secrets. 26 Jun ? 27 Sep. Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Wed Jul 8 14:03:32 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:03:32 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: PA Fireball Sale - 102 Meteorite Listings Message-ID: <4A54DF74.6030307@meteoritesusa.com> Hi listees, In the spirit of the fireballs and meteorites we love so dearly, a special sale has been put together on ALL of our meteorites in our Ebay store. If you haven't looked at what I have available it's really a good idea to do so now. 102 meteorites are priced from .20/g to .33/g to move fast, and yes, they have been moving very fast since we marked them down last night. This is a limited time deal at these prices. Auctions & Store Items: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/freel3orn FREE SHIPPING inside the USA on all orders over $50! We must sell these items today! Bigger discounts are available on bigger orders. $250 plus orders get even better pricing. Call or email me off-list for these prices: 904-236-5394 The meteorites listed are unclassified nwa stone chondrites, expertly cleaned, prepped, sliced, and/or polished slices, end cuts, and whole stones. The best meteorites will go first, so don't wait, the prices will not go lower, and I will not hold items. Please, due to the urgency of this sale items must be paid for within 24 hrs of using Buy-It-Now. This sale is to help generate funds for a possible hunt in the event we narrow a search field or a stone is found by a local, so your purchase will go to help fund this very worthy cause... ;) This is your chance to get some very nice meteorite specimens on the cheap. -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 Since I emailed on July 4th, I will not email again until next week. Thank you for your patience. From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jul 8 14:20:24 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 20:20:24 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007d01c9fff8$c3802fa0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hello Peter, Confrere, Finally a curator writing on the list to limn that complex from his angle, many thanks for that. Peter, if you read my postings, you will find, that I agree with all your points. (somewhere you read maybe something behind the lines, which in fact doesn't stand there, perhaps it's also because I can't express myself so nuanced in that foreign language, my fault). Well. Nobody on the list here and in the private meteorite sector casts the slightest doubts on the eligibility of national institutes to get parts of the finds and falls of their country into their collections. On contrary they all welcome that. The problems are different and unfortunately quite dramatic. To most of them I wrote a whole epic here on the list, Today I won't recapitulate that all, because today I'm ill. The main question is: What does the "official" side want. A) Do they want to have large quantities of rare meteorites and new recoveries? Hence more an objective target pointing in the direction of research, space exploration ect. B) Do they want to have saved their national heritage or however one could call it? That is a more historic and conservatorical approach. Subsequent question is: What for instruments do we have and shall we use to achieve the first goal or the second goal or even both. (and with the special regard, that many institutes don't have anymore the financial funds, which they had the 200 years before). The instruments urgently suggested or already working make the goals A) and B) to incompatible opposites. and as all data and statistics undisputedly demonstrate, these instruments counteract both goals. So we should get perhaps first clarity, what the "official" side wants. (btw. the division into private and official antagonists is, as often you can read it though, unhistoric and highly artificial). And then we have to think, whether we do want an improvement, a persistence on the status quo or a worsening. Most of my posts tended to avoid at least that the situation get's worse. For today, Martin PS. Mark, I have to profoundly disagree. The meteorite prices of the last 200 years, as well as the expenses of institutional collections are preserved and knownof today . They prove that meteorites never were so cheap than in this decade and that the meteorite prices on the commercial sector are - by far - the lowest in history. (which makes that not so Gordian situation especially bizarre). -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Peter Davidson Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. Juli 2009 13:02 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies This is my first posting on this list - please be gentle with me. I have only been on the list a matter of a week or so and I seemed to have walked into a veritable storm. I would like to share my views with you as a curator. Please forgive this rather long mail. Taking a posting from Martin Altmann dated 7th July as my starting point, here goes. I have never heard a law being described as "exotic". Do you mean idiotic? I can in no way speak on behalf of all curators, far less Australian ones. I can only give you my own viewpoint but I do know many curators from Australia, mostly mineralogists, and please believe me when I tell you they are fine people and not the narrow-minded, nationalistic people hinted at in a number of e-mails. I also noted that Martin Altmann stated that everybody on the list was a "lousy layman" which is not only patently untrue but just a little sexist. But I digress. Curators are every bit as dedicated to their collections as private collectors are. We are not faceless bureaucrats (or similar) existing in some Kafkaesque nightmare world hidebound by rules, and seeking to restrict everyone else by creating a spider's web of red tape to trap the unwary. That notion is as ridiculous to me as the presumption that all dealers (minerals or meteorites) are shady and unscrupulous. As a curator at a National Museum, I am obligated by law (yes, I know!) to preserve and protect the collections of the museum and by extension, the nation. I choose to do this. I work in the museum because I want to. Every curator I have met shares with me a love of the specimens that they curate. We also share a passionate believe that it is our duty to bring our collections to the notice and attention of the public, and to make them available to researchers and other curators. Believe me when I tell you that museum curators/conservators are not well paid. We do it for love - well mostly. When I joined the museum in 1975, I also had to undertake never to start and build up my own collection. The collections of the museum ARE my collections. I also feel that Martin overstates the influence scientist have at governmental level. Yes, some scientists are asked to advise on certain matters, but in the end it is the politician that decides. My observations of this hated group, politicians that is, leads me to surmise that if some short term political advantage can be gained by appealing to the masses, fed to satedness by a largely right-wing populist press (the tabloids in the UK), then they will always take that course of action, no matter what the consequences are. This very often goes against the advice of scientists/curators and negates many decades of good interaction between the public and private sectors. As I mineralogist, I am painfully aware that the market for display quality specimens has now passed beyond the reach of publicly-funded museums. The meteorite market is no different. Nonetheless, as a curator at a National Museum, and I hope you can understand this point of view, there is a duty to collect for the Nation everything we can in order that we can research, interpret and explain to the people of Scotland, its historical, sociological, artistic and scientific heritage. The question raised by many contributors to the list is: should meteorites fall into that category? Clearly the Australian Government thought so, and so did the UK Government in the 1960's when legislation was introduced to Parliament but never passed into law. We already do our utmost to protect other geological sites. This policy is well intentioned and it can be argued that "fixed" geological outcrops, either mineralogical or palaeontological are a finite resource. If unscrupulous collectors plunder the site and remove all the material, then it is lost forever. Meteorites are different in that they are not "fixed" but are random in the sense that they can fall at any time, in any place. However, from my point of view as a curator, ought I to have the desire to possess in the National Collection, a sample of each of the four Scottish falls? I do have that desire and the fact that the museum doesn't possess all Scottish meteorites leads to a feeling of both consternation and frustration. But it is a situation I accept Why don't you go and collect them yourself I hear you asking. Well, the short answer is - we would love to. We do go on collecting trips, but these are limited by budgetary constraints primarily, but also by the general workload faced by all curators. This is why we have tried to build a network of private collectors across the country that will work with is to the benefit of both parties. But the inescapable fact is that the market in geological specimens has moved onto a level which museums find it difficult to operate in. We rely to a large extent on donations or possibly exchange. Private collectors know that they can sell their specimens on the open market and receive a much better price than a museum can offer. I was heartened to hear that some private collectors and dealers are in favour of a greater collaboration with scientists and museums. All of us who love meteorites need to continue to work closely. We require the raw material to undertake research, and this gets fed back to the public through our publications. Scientists do find new information in old specimens; we would not be scientists if we did not constantly search for new data. But I would just like to finish with this thought. Many young people are familiar with meteorites through the media and the internet, but for many, the only opportunity they get to see and touch them is through museums and their curators. Many indeed of the list members may have been inspired to go and collect by seeing meteorites in a museum. Martin. Please do not take this as a personal attack. I find your e-mails well agued and thoughtful. Indeed it was your email that inspired me to pen this message. I have spoken about this in other lists, in other places. The meteorites will continue to fall, long after we are all gone. There should be enough for everyone. Don't forget us! All donations gratefully accepted. Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals ? National Museums Collection Centre National Museums Scotland 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Phone: +44?131 247 4283 p.davidson at nms.ac.uk www.nms.ac.uk ? ? Garden Detectives. Unearthing nature?s little secrets. 26 Jun ? 27 Sep. Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 14:55:10 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 11:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Seismic Data search for 6JUL09 meteor Message-ID: <30857.98364.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Thank you for stepping up and great work there Kelly on the elevation, I have a planetarium application on my computer but knocked off at 4am on trying to get an elevation based on a general Baltimore location on the evening and time in question. Let me address several points in the broader area of having to rethink and rework traditional data collecting on fireballs in general and this one in particular. Yes--there is some emerging data which points to a more SE-NW (as opposed to a E-W) trajectory than was indicated before. This could result in a fall/terminus back inside PA between Gettysberg and York. If so, this raises a caution against accepting at face value, the reliability of self-reported fireball reports. As I've mentioned before, a part of the science is an on site interview with the witness to refine their experience with simple tools and confirm their true orientation. I believe seismic data can be used to reconstruct the trajectory/ground path even if the thump of a fall is not detected. Given that the US Air Force has now made satellite data classified, we need to find and validate other data sources which go untapped for fireball track information. This event lends itself to that validation. I am working on another fireball for which seismic data is scant but shows two deviations. One consistent with the sonic boom arrival time and another approx 30 min later consistent with a fall from altitude arriving on the ground. These "spikes" are in the usual capture of events such as mine blasting, truck accidents, train couplings, etc. which seismologist have no reason to explore. I know that sonic boom signatures were captured by seismometers as early as the 60's--I believe even for the Shuttle Orbiter's returns--They don't rise above the level of typical noise unless one matches them with the known time of the event across several stations. I believe the 9-11 towers collapsing rose to the level of earthquake energy, if memory serves. I believe that in the normally captured --but normally discarded data, however weakly it is captured, is a scientifically valid signature of the ground track for fireballs such as these. In this case we have reports of sound energy so strong that houses shook and in one case a report of a pressure change within a house that included slapping open exhaust fan shutters. Be it remembered that in the old days of unrestricted supersonic flight over land the Air Force paid for a lot of cracked windows. As to this PA/MD Event something with this much energy is going to show up on seismograms but the seismologist that review them won't recognize as such because they only think in the paradigm of things which are of earthquake energies. We need to get them thinking above the ground. Finally, it takes weeks to put together a working team if you are within academia and more so if one request the data from the private sector. I hope someone with connections on the list might be able to get a seismologist interested in making a network inquiry-- For reasons unknown to me, there appear to be multiple seismic network arrays and affiliations that do not talk to each other. Elton --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Kelly Beatty wrote: > my take: this putative fall is unlikely to generate a > seismic signal if pieces hit the ground at terminal free-fall velocity > (several hundred mph for really large chunks, much less for smaller ones). meanwhile, I've analyzed Mike Hankey's photo. assuming the > bolide was 1:10 am local time and "falling from the sky", as reports > indicate, then the meteor segment in the image he took was centered at AZ 73?, AL 63??, and had a bearing toward the east-northeast horizon. > clear skies, > Kelly > > **************** > J. Kelly Beatty > Senior Contributing Editor > SKY & TELESCOPE > 617-416-9991 > SkyandTelescope.com From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jul 8 16:10:45 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 16:10:45 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, West offer Message-ID: Hey guys, To celebrate the new falls, I am willing to make a deal on one of my remaining West/Ask Creek Stones to raise some travel funds. Visit the photos at photobucket and find one not sold and make me an offer that can be paypaled to me immediately. I will take the best offer and hope to have more to sell soon of one of the new ones. http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/ Steve Arnold Of :"Meteorite Men" **************Popular laptop deals plus free shipping! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221917659x1201411421/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.media plex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D2) From nwa482 at comcast.net Wed Jul 8 17:06:02 2009 From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 21:06:02 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] Esquel SALE Message-ID: <1702800142.298701247087162409.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Looking to raise some cash, (not for hunting meteorites!!!) for vacations this summer. Highly translucent. Polished on one side, Etched on the other side. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200360871218 Oh, and check out my website too, if you see anything that strikes your fancy, I am open to REASONABLE offers! Thanks for looking !!!!! Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV ?26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 19:17:27 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 16:17:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Ad Hoc Fireball research group at Yahoo.groups Message-ID: <948970.38254.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Short gist: I felt the need for a working group /discussion platform to sort out the nitty-gritty details regarding a major fireball sighting. Also to give a sounding board/ semi-peer review for conclusions before they are released into cyberspace. I hastily set up this group until something better happens it is not cyber empire building. I invite co-owners. I/we need a couple fair minded moderators and a bunch of meteor/meteorite seasoned individuals who are willing to learn and share in a synergy setting. Our goals are to bring long time experts to the table to discuss the process of collecting data and to assist field investigators--many newly interested with whatever fireball flew over their head last night-- with a positive step by step approach to putting together an accurate picture of the event. This is not a meteorite hunting group and it is not just about finding meteorites. I hope it will be a venue for consolidating fireball data for all facets of fireball behavior and to preserve it for future researchers. As noted on the homepage this is a supplement to our more familiar groups not meant to take away from routine discussion or present day mission of any organizations. It is to handle the increased flow of technical messaging that peaks after an event and to insure someone taps all sources of data regarding the fireball in question. Eventually we hope to have guides on how to go about collecting information what equipment to have on hand and how to conduct a field interview etc. to speed the process or collecting data while the memory is fresh. Any member will be able to post but if you just want to join to watch the mind-blowing er numbing exchanges you are welcome to sit in the balcony. Other bloggers and writers are welcome to use our results in their feeds for the time being --but remember we will have privacy issues when it comes to private land owner names etc which should remain within the group. That said we are open for business and there is certainly lots of work to go around don't be shy. Regards, Elton From paul at meteorite.com Wed Jul 8 20:11:46 2009 From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:11:46 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-Times July Issue Now Up Message-ID: <4A5535C2.3030906@meteorite.com> Hello Everyone, The July issue of Meteorite-Times is now up. http://www.meteorite-times.com/ Enjoy! Paul and Jim From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 21:39:06 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 18:39:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) meteorites forsale Message-ID: <921019.58446.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi everyone.I have a few nice meteorites forsale all with free shipping.I have a 201.5 gram, sikote-alin for $200,also a 79 gram nice sikote-alin with flow lines for $100.I have a gibeon slice that is 70 grams with a huge troilite hole thru it for $100,also there?is a 22 gram endcut of nwa 5477 which is an?L3 with lots of chondrules for $200,also a 38.5 slice of nwa 2827.I also have a 161.5 gram endcut of a campo silicated iron.It really looks like portales valley the way it was cut? for $200.And I have a 274.5 gram individual of las palmas for $80.Let me know off list if interested.I need to raise a few $$$$$$$ for a very big aquisition. ?Steve R. Arnold From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 22:05:50 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 19:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Google Earth Kmz file for July 6 Fireball PA Version 2 available Message-ID: <131355.73684.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> The "plotting" thickens.... I have finished plotting the bearings from the fireball reports where bearings noted including correcting transcription typos. So witness locations have azimuth legs projected over the ground and one can see where they tend to overlap. In Google Earth you can turn off the lines you wish by deselecting the box by the file name. Track names in this case correspond to the AMS log for event 371 a,b,c,and so on to t. We now have a well documented photo through a telescope in Freeland, MD thanks to Mike Hankey which can be viewed at who happened to be taking a timed exposure of known objects. The derived Az and El for the track of the fireball from this location is AZ 73?, AL 63??, and had a bearing toward the east-northeast horizon courtesy of Kelly Beatty at Sky and Telescope(TM). We also await the specifics from a security camera in York, Pa in order to generate another precise azimuth. Some reports still do not fit the over all data and frankly there are information snipets a float which give credence for up to 4 different trajectories/ground tracks. One which is emerging as the new leader is one which carried the fireball towards York, PA but we still can't make a statement if the it passed East, West or Over York. That is to say that it is looking less likely that there was a direct East to West trajectory parallel to the PA/MD State Line and ending over Maryland as I previously estimated. Someone will announce when they have been uploaded to a website or if you need it tonight email me off list. Again this is a collection of reports that have been graphically rendered to make them easier to evaluate. They were released to give a consolidated overlay on a map. I placed a straight edge along the margins and looked for possible tracks where reports agreed--That is where two adjacent witness locations agreed that the fireball passed between them. A final note on understanding elevations. Generally the closer you are to a fireball's path the higher in the sky it will be. Those reports with low elevations tend to be at a much greater distance. Regards, Elton From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed Jul 8 22:22:16 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 22:22:16 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Google Earth Kmz file for July 6 Fireball PA Version 2 available In-Reply-To: <131355.73684.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <131355.73684.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Elton, You sir, are the man. :) Nice work. Best regards, MikeG On 7/8/09, Mr EMan wrote: > > The "plotting" thickens.... > > I have finished plotting the bearings from the fireball reports where > bearings noted including correcting transcription typos. So witness > locations have azimuth legs projected over the ground and one can see where > they tend to overlap. In Google Earth you can turn off the lines you wish by > deselecting the box by the file name. Track names in this case correspond to > the AMS log for event 371 a,b,c,and so on to t. > > We now have a well documented photo through a telescope in Freeland, MD > thanks to Mike Hankey which can be viewed at > who happened to be taking a timed > exposure of known objects. The derived Az and El for the track of the > fireball from this location is AZ 73?, AL 63??, and had a bearing toward the > east-northeast horizon courtesy of Kelly Beatty at Sky and Telescope(TM). > We also await the specifics from a security camera in York, Pa in order to > generate another precise azimuth. > > Some reports still do not fit the over all data and frankly there are > information snipets a float which give credence for up to 4 different > trajectories/ground tracks. One which is emerging as the new leader is one > which carried the fireball towards York, PA but we still can't make a > statement if the it passed East, West or Over York. That is to say that it > is looking less likely that there was a direct East to West trajectory > parallel to the PA/MD State Line and ending over Maryland as I previously > estimated. > > Someone will announce when they have been uploaded to a website or if you > need it tonight email me off list. > > Again this is a collection of reports that have been graphically rendered to > make them easier to evaluate. They were released to give a consolidated > overlay on a map. I placed a straight edge along the margins and looked for > possible tracks where reports agreed--That is where two adjacent witness > locations agreed that the fireball passed between them. > > A final note on understanding elevations. Generally the closer you are to a > fireball's path the higher in the sky it will be. Those reports with low > elevations tend to be at a much greater distance. > > Regards, > Elton > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jul 9 01:40:20 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 00:40:20 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA In-Reply-To: <3C4087BB3DEE44BFA1E9518B4B74B205@D190TH71> References: <3C4087BB3DEE44BFA1E9518B4B74B205@D190TH71> Message-ID: Security camera video. (And the makings of another circus, with all the press): http://ydr.inyork.com/ci_12790056 From drtanuki at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 01:03:34 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 22:03:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA Message-ID: <665713.87183.qm@web53111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Darren and List, Darren wrote: "(And the > makings of another circus, with all the press)": Circus indeed with a title of "Meteorite hunters looking for treasure in York County". Treasure hunters again!!!...this leaves a bad taste in one`s mouth for people in meteorites! When will the "meteorite hunters" get the advertisement of "treasure hunting" and act professional or at least correct the press before it goes to print? Great quotes!... ".... Garcia said. For example, a fossil might be found inside. Some of the meteorites are sold to collectors, Garcia said. Some also trade and barter for pieces. Meteorites are worth 5 cents a gram to $1,000 a gram, depending on how rare they are, Arnold said. Another Pirate show? Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 2:40 PM > Security camera video.? (And the > makings of another circus, with all the press): > > http://ydr.inyork.com/ci_12790056 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From MeteorHntr at aol.com Thu Jul 9 01:12:06 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 01:12:06 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA Message-ID: Dirk, Yea, it is hard to answer the question: "What are meteorites worth?" Personally I don't like to lie to people and say they are not worth anything. Especially when a simple search on ebay will show that meteorites are indeed worth from around 5 cents a gram up to $1,000 a gram. When the reporters pressed me how much these would be worth, I refused to give a number. I told them I didn't know, and there were too many factors that would determine what they are worth. So I guess they went with the simple shorter quote. I am not sure what you mean by "Anther Pirate show?" Would you expound? Steve Arnold In a message dated 7/9/2009 12:03:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time, drtanuki at yahoo.com writes: Meteorites are worth 5 cents a gram to $1,000 a gram, depending on how rare they are, Arnold said. Another Pirate show? **************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - Limited Time Offer (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D3) From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jul 9 02:17:00 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 01:17:00 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA In-Reply-To: <665713.87183.qm@web53111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <665713.87183.qm@web53111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 22:03:34 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Meteorites are worth 5 cents a gram to $1,000 a gram, depending on how rare they are, Arnold said. > Three guesses which figure any property owner reading that is more likely to ask for... From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 01:35:52 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 22:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA Message-ID: <573380.26232.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> On Thu, 7/9/09, Darren Garrison wrote: > >Meteorites are worth 5 cents a gram to $1,000 a gram, > depending on how rare they are, Arnold said. > Three guesses which figure any property owner reading that > is more likely to ask for... ROTFL MSOMN ( Rolling on the floor laughing milk squirting out my nose) Thanks I needed that Darren, great timing. I remain baffled at what looked pretty simple plotting and aiming sent me in such a different direction. I don't see how so many distant observers felt and saw a fireball coming from an almost opposite direction from what they reported. Then again test results and beauty contestants show Americans are geographically illiterate compared to the rest of the world. Thanks Steve for the efforts to find hard data. This will be one for the books. Early on I got a feeling this fireball came in from the east coast, stopped, backed up and took a right and turn to the north just going by the blog entries I read. Hopefully, our folks are closing in on any debris. Speaking of debris a lot of dust is generated in these trails that settles to the ground after the event so someone please remember to sample the surfaces of felled trees, gutter spouts, etc. looking for micrometeorite spheres. Just one more technique and data set to consider which we might be able to work back from to refine trajectory. Elton From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jul 9 01:40:27 2009 From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 22:40:27 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA In-Reply-To: <573380.26232.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Speaking of debris a lot > of dust is generated in these trails that settles to the ground after the > event so someone please remember to sample the surfaces of felled trees, > gutter spouts, etc. looking for micrometeorite spheres. I second the motion. In the event that no meteorites turn up, a sample of freshly fallen fine debris should be sufficient to identify the meteorite by type if nothing else. Cheers, MDF From drtanuki at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 01:54:43 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 22:54:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA Message-ID: <264801.48418.qm@web53101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Forwarding for Ruben. --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Ruben Garcia wrote: > From: Ruben Garcia > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA > To: "drtanuki" , cynapse at charter.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 2:41 PM > > Hi guys, > I'm pretty sure I can't post to this list - at > least that has been the case for a few weeks now. I did CC > the list though. > ? > Dirk, What you must understand is what you say and > what gets printed are nearly always two different things. I > never said anything about "Treasure" not one word. > Nor did I say that an actual fossil would be found. What I > said was?that maybe one day signs of life (from other > planets ) may be found on a fresh fall such as this. She > must have assumed "fossil". > ? > However, this quote is pretty much what I said > "Some of the meteorites are sold to collectors, Garcia > said. Some also trade and barter for > pieces."?? I don't know why that is bad > or inaccurate....? That is what we do.....? > Right? > ? > She pressed me on what they were worth and I said > NOTHING. But I do understand what Steve said and I agree > with him....?? What else could he have said when > pressed? > ? > Oh ya, We did not call the press! We only called York > water to get a look at the camera. She (the reporter) called > York water also to look at their camera. Jeff from York told > her when we would be there as he didn't have time to > entertain her, then Steve, then us- so he did it all at > once... > ? > Since I can't respond to the entire list can you > or Darrin please post this? > ? > ?Ruben Garcia > Phoenix, Arizona > My Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net > My Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ > My Videos: > http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v > > > > > > > > From: > drtanuki > To: > cynapse at charter.net; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: > Wednesday, July 8, 2009 10:03:34 PM > Subject: Re: > [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball > PA > > > Dear Darren and List, > > Darren wrote: "(And the > > makings of another circus, with all the press)": > > Circus indeed with a title of "Meteorite hunters > looking for treasure in York County".? Treasure > hunters again!!!...this leaves a bad taste in one`s mouth > for people in meteorites!? When will the > "meteorite hunters" get the advertisement of > "treasure hunting" and act professional or at > least correct the press before it goes to print? > > Great quotes!... > > ".... Garcia said. For example, a fossil might be > found inside. > > Some of the meteorites are sold to collectors, Garcia said. > Some also trade and barter for pieces. > > Meteorites are worth 5 cents a gram to $1,000 a gram, > depending on how rare they are, Arnold said. > > ? Another Pirate show? > > > Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo > > > --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Darren Garrison > wrote: > > > From: Darren Garrison > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to > July 6 Fireball PA > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 2:40 PM > > Security camera video.? (And the > > makings of another circus, with > all the press): > > > > http://ydr.inyork.com/ci_12790056 > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > From mikewren at gilanet.com Thu Jul 9 02:01:54 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 23:01:54 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA In-Reply-To: <264801.48418.qm@web53101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <264801.48418.qm@web53101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0A3D4404-533E-45EE-85A5-49A0951A85B1@gilanet.com> ..... and some people may wonder why some of the strewn fields are kept "secret" Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On Jul 8, 2009, at 10:54 PM, drtanuki wrote: > > Forwarding for Ruben. > > --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Ruben Garcia wrote: > >> From: Ruben Garcia >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA >> To: "drtanuki" , cynapse at charter.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 2:41 PM >> >> Hi guys, >> I'm pretty sure I can't post to this list - at >> least that has been the case for a few weeks now. I did CC >> the list though. >> >> Dirk, What you must understand is what you say and >> what gets printed are nearly always two different things. I >> never said anything about "Treasure" not one word. >> Nor did I say that an actual fossil would be found. What I >> said was that maybe one day signs of life (from other >> planets ) may be found on a fresh fall such as this. She >> must have assumed "fossil". >> >> However, this quote is pretty much what I said >> "Some of the meteorites are sold to collectors, Garcia >> said. Some also trade and barter for >> pieces." I don't know why that is bad >> or inaccurate.... That is what we do..... >> Right? >> >> She pressed me on what they were worth and I said >> NOTHING. But I do understand what Steve said and I agree >> with him.... What else could he have said when >> pressed? >> >> Oh ya, We did not call the press! We only called York >> water to get a look at the camera. She (the reporter) called >> York water also to look at their camera. Jeff from York told >> her when we would be there as he didn't have time to >> entertain her, then Steve, then us- so he did it all at >> once... >> >> Since I can't respond to the entire list can you >> or Darrin please post this? >> >> Ruben Garcia >> Phoenix, Arizona >> My Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net >> My Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ >> My Videos: >> http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: >> drtanuki >> To: >> cynapse at charter.net; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Sent: >> Wednesday, July 8, 2009 10:03:34 PM >> Subject: Re: >> [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball >> PA >> >> >> Dear Darren and List, >> >> Darren wrote: "(And the >>> makings of another circus, with all the press)": >> >> Circus indeed with a title of "Meteorite hunters >> looking for treasure in York County". Treasure >> hunters again!!!...this leaves a bad taste in one`s mouth >> for people in meteorites! When will the >> "meteorite hunters" get the advertisement of >> "treasure hunting" and act professional or at >> least correct the press before it goes to print? >> >> Great quotes!... >> >> ".... Garcia said. For example, a fossil might be >> found inside. >> >> Some of the meteorites are sold to collectors, Garcia said. >> Some also trade and barter for pieces. >> >> Meteorites are worth 5 cents a gram to $1,000 a gram, >> depending on how rare they are, Arnold said. >> >> Another Pirate show? >> >> >> Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo >> >> >> --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Darren Garrison >> wrote: >> >>> From: Darren Garrison >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to >> July 6 Fireball PA >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 2:40 PM >>> Security camera video. (And the >>> makings of another circus, with >> all the press): >>> >>> http://ydr.inyork.com/ci_12790056 >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From MeteorHntr at aol.com Thu Jul 9 03:37:36 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 03:37:36 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA Message-ID: Hey All, Just for everyone's information, I personally think that if at least two good video's can be found from two different locations, the intersection can be found where the MD-PA bolide extinguished. That should be the heart of the strewnfield. My primary purpose in going ahead and talking with the media today was to solicit people to check the recordings from the security cameras. There is a tiny widow of opportunity to get the media to cooperate when making such a request, then quickly all interest will be lost. If this ground was easy to search (not massive amount of green, trees, grass, weeds, crops, hills, rivers and such) it might be easy for a few people to search hundreds of square miles in a short period of time. This is a fall that will need to get the bulls eye identified real close or I am afraid it will be a lost cause. And I am not certain, but actually having some of the locals look, might not be a bad thing. If because of some media exposure, some people start looking down, it is a bad thing? A few thousand people taking a little time to check out the ground might do better than a couple dozen professional hunters could do in a few weeks time. Once the heart of the potential area can be ascertained, then at least there will be a shot that something might be found. There is always a risk when dealing with the media that things will be misconstrued, but object number one is to find where the meteorites are. Then, if and when that happens, we can worry about dealing with a land owner that might find one and thinks it is worth more than it really is. I would rather have a land owner look and find one and not want to sell it, than not to look and not to find it, especially if it might be the first one. I suppose when I was pressed I could have said "Meteorites are worth $1/g." But then I run the risk that someone will accuse me of trying to steal meteorites for too little. I could say "Meteorites are worth $100/g. then if someone find ones, and I only offer a fraction of that for it, then I am accused of over stating what they are worth. I could say "I don't know what meteorites are worth" and I would have looked like a fool, since as a "professional" I probably should know what meteorites are worth. I told both reporters that were there when I arrived tonight, that meteorites can be very cheap, as low as $0.05/g while ultra rare meteorites, like ones from the Moon, can be worth up around $1,000/g. Totally true statements. Somehow Reuben squirmed out of not answering that question. Good for him. I tried to qualify my statements when I made them, as I wanted to be honest. I am also keenly aware that fireball events like this have an opportunity to attract new collectors to the market. In fact, while it is possible no meteorites will be found here, I would bet some new collectors will be found. Being honest and letting people know that there is a real collectors market out there, I feel is a good thing. I intentionally stayed away from saying "I will pay $10,000 for the first pound recovered" or anything like that, and stayed on focus that I was looking for more footage from various areas to do the triangulation. I made no offer to buy any meteorites if someone else found them, just that I was on the hunt myself. I know I can't make everyone happy, but I am doing what I think I need to do to locate the strewnfield in this particular case. Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - Limited Time Offer (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D3) From P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk Thu Jul 9 04:23:17 2009 From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk (Peter Davidson) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 09:23:17 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies Message-ID: Mark, I would like to answer some of your allegations if I may and perhaps open a debate about where collected material goes. There seems to be a rather broad misconception about museums and their collections. Let me just start by saying that collectors have made an inestimable contribution to the furtherance of science. There is no disputing this. As science developed from the late 17th Century, collectors and explorers went out into the wide world to search for the unusual, exotic and unseen. Of course this material went to universities and museums, where else could it go? It was these fast developing institutions that were at the cutting edge of scientific research up to and beyond the Victorian Age. There were private collectors, but they were often former academics and almost certainly university educated. At their deaths, universities and museum were often the beneficiaries of their wills and many private collections came into public hands this way. It also has to be remembered that museum collections, including our own, were originally set-up as teaching collections. There was no real market place for geological specimens in the sense we know it today, so prices were lower - comparatively. The clientele, such as it was, was also largely middle- or upper-class and financially very well off. However, the notion that there is a "flow" of newly found material into museums is not entirely true. I do not work in an artefact-based department. It would therefore be unfair of me to comment to any great degree on their collecting policies. As I stated above, much of the material in museum drawers are donated/bequeathed objects or collections acquired by purchase. In any collection, there is a variable proportion of material that can be described as "contextless" or "difficult". But what may at the time be considered of lesser value may after subsequent research prove to be of greater value. It is on that basis museums often appear to hoard excess material. It is also often the case that once material is registered, it is very difficult and, I would personally add undesirable, to sell-off this material. If this material is contextless, then it can surely have no value in the market place anyway. Would you buy a shapeless lump of rock or pottery whose only provenance is "found in museum drawer"? On the scientific side, the "value" of an object can be viewed differently. As a mineralogist, as well as the obvious aesthetic qualities of some objects, there is also the scientific value. Some of the rarest and most "precious" of our objects are (to an aesthete) uninspiring and dull. Yet to a mineralogist, they may be the finest examples of a mineral species in the World. As for a never-ending flow of objects disappearing into museum collections. Let me assure you that if this is happening, then it is being done by elves at night when there are no museum staff around. As far as owning the objects. Well in that sense the museums doesn't own the specimens. The people of Scotland own them, all five million of us, and they are available for viewing either in galleries, online or by appointment for free. You only have to ask. Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals National Museums Collection Centre National Museums Scotland 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Phone: +44 131 247 4283 p.davidson at nms.ac.uk www.nms.ac.uk -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mark Ford Sent: 08 July 2009 16:01 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies Also we should never underestimate the contribution made to science by collectors! This is particularly true of meteorites, if no-one collected them, and created the resources needed for hunting them, our museum draws would actually be much emptier I suspect - Yes the market price would (arguably) be a little bit lower but how exactly does that help find more meteorites?? Imho, one of the reasons the market prices keep going up (particularly with historic artifacts) is newly found stuff simply flows in one direction into museum collections and archives. further limiting the market availability, this will only get worse if the supply of material to collectors gets even further choked off, by stupid blanket laws - for example if museums where allowed to trade and sell off some of the artifacts that are not needed then the market value would drop to sensible levels. (Ironically, there are countless thousands of useless orphaned contextless artifacts, that can serve no useful purpose sitting in museum draws all over the world, some are probably worth a small fortune on the open market - surely we should consider using some of this to fund much more important work, before we target private collectors). I believe we actually all have a personal responsibility to only keep and collect what we actually need to collect, museums included, that way everyone gets the chance to own these treasures without needing a mortgage, After all there is only so much to go round. Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Peter Davidson Sent: 08 July 2009 12:02 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies This is my first posting on this list - please be gentle with me. I have only been on the list a matter of a week or so and I seemed to have walked into a veritable storm. I would like to share my views with you as a curator. Please forgive this rather long mail. Taking a posting from Martin Altmann dated 7th July as my starting point, here goes. I have never heard a law being described as "exotic". Do you mean idiotic? I can in no way speak on behalf of all curators, far less Australian ones. I can only give you my own viewpoint but I do know many curators from Australia, mostly mineralogists, and please believe me when I tell you they are fine people and not the narrow-minded, nationalistic people hinted at in a number of e-mails. I also noted that Martin Altmann stated that everybody on the list was a "lousy layman" which is not only patently untrue but just a little sexist. But I digress. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Garden Detectives. Unearthing nature?s little secrets. 26 Jun ? 27 Sep. Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Thu Jul 9 05:36:25 2009 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 10:36:25 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4967B22B@gamma.ssl.atw> Hi Peter, I understand your point, and I agree with what you are saying entirely, and I am obviously not advocating a great sell off of important museum items (that would be tragic), but is it not the case that pretty much all new material recovered from archeological digs is kept and stored? - (granted perhaps not always specifically in museums, as there are many groups involved with artifact retrieval), but it just seems a shame to me, that however well meaning, to me so much material is still 'seemingly' locked beyond (easy) public access, as there is only a very very small amount of public display space at the end of the day (this is the route by which 99.999% of the public have access to material). You curators do a truly wonderful job, and are always very keen to allow access, no question of that. I think the problem is probably one of public education and perception, most of the public have no idea if their local museum would let them route around in their collections, and most have no way of knowing what is even in their local collections. If they could sort the inevitable security problems out, I'd love to see meteorites and other items on display around places like the London underground, or at my local supermarket, or in my local high street.. why not? Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Peter Davidson Sent: 09 July 2009 09:23 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies Mark, I would like to answer some of your allegations if I may and perhaps open a debate about where collected material goes. There seems to be a rather broad misconception about museums and their collections. Let me just start by saying that collectors have made an inestimable contribution to the furtherance of science. There is no disputing this. As science developed from the late 17th Century, collectors and explorers went out into the wide world to search for the unusual, exotic and unseen. Of course this material went to universities and museums, where else could it go? It was these fast developing institutions that were at the cutting edge of scientific research up to and beyond the Victorian Age. There were private collectors, but they were often former academics and almost certainly university educated. At their deaths, universities and museum were often the beneficiaries of their wills and many private collections came into public hands this way. It also has to be remembered that museum collections, including our own, were originally set-up as teaching collections. There was no real market place for geological specimens in the sense we know it today, so prices were lower - comparatively. The clientele, such as it was, was also largely middle- or upper-class and financially very well off. However, the notion that there is a "flow" of newly found material into museums is not entirely true. I do not work in an artefact-based department. It would therefore be unfair of me to comment to any great degree on their collecting policies. As I stated above, much of the material in museum drawers are donated/bequeathed objects or collections acquired by purchase. In any collection, there is a variable proportion of material that can be described as "contextless" or "difficult". But what may at the time be considered of lesser value may after subsequent research prove to be of greater value. It is on that basis museums often appear to hoard excess material. It is also often the case that once material is registered, it is very difficult and, I would personally add undesirable, to sell-off this material. If this material is contextless, then it can surely have no value in the market place anyway. Would you buy a shapeless lump of rock or pottery whose only provenance is "found in museum drawer"? On the scientific side, the "value" of an object can be viewed differently. As a mineralogist, as well as the obvious aesthetic qualities of some objects, there is also the scientific value. Some of the rarest and most "precious" of our objects are (to an aesthete) uninspiring and dull. Yet to a mineralogist, they may be the finest examples of a mineral species in the World. As for a never-ending flow of objects disappearing into museum collections. Let me assure you that if this is happening, then it is being done by elves at night when there are no museum staff around. As far as owning the objects. Well in that sense the museums doesn't own the specimens. The people of Scotland own them, all five million of us, and they are available for viewing either in galleries, online or by appointment for free. You only have to ask. Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals National Museums Collection Centre National Museums Scotland 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Phone: +44 131 247 4283 p.davidson at nms.ac.uk www.nms.ac.uk -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mark Ford Sent: 08 July 2009 16:01 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies Also we should never underestimate the contribution made to science by collectors! This is particularly true of meteorites, if no-one collected them, and created the resources needed for hunting them, our museum draws would actually be much emptier I suspect - Yes the market price would (arguably) be a little bit lower but how exactly does that help find more meteorites?? Imho, one of the reasons the market prices keep going up (particularly with historic artifacts) is newly found stuff simply flows in one direction into museum collections and archives. further limiting the market availability, this will only get worse if the supply of material to collectors gets even further choked off, by stupid blanket laws - for example if museums where allowed to trade and sell off some of the artifacts that are not needed then the market value would drop to sensible levels. (Ironically, there are countless thousands of useless orphaned contextless artifacts, that can serve no useful purpose sitting in museum draws all over the world, some are probably worth a small fortune on the open market - surely we should consider using some of this to fund much more important work, before we target private collectors). I believe we actually all have a personal responsibility to only keep and collect what we actually need to collect, museums included, that way everyone gets the chance to own these treasures without needing a mortgage, After all there is only so much to go round. Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Peter Davidson Sent: 08 July 2009 12:02 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies This is my first posting on this list - please be gentle with me. I have only been on the list a matter of a week or so and I seemed to have walked into a veritable storm. I would like to share my views with you as a curator. Please forgive this rather long mail. Taking a posting from Martin Altmann dated 7th July as my starting point, here goes. I have never heard a law being described as "exotic". Do you mean idiotic? I can in no way speak on behalf of all curators, far less Australian ones. I can only give you my own viewpoint but I do know many curators from Australia, mostly mineralogists, and please believe me when I tell you they are fine people and not the narrow-minded, nationalistic people hinted at in a number of e-mails. I also noted that Martin Altmann stated that everybody on the list was a "lousy layman" which is not only patently untrue but just a little sexist. But I digress. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Garden Detectives. Unearthing nature's little secrets. 26 Jun - 27 Sep. Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From drtanuki at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 05:46:08 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 02:46:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA Message-ID: <683235.18986.qm@web53106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Steve, Thank you for your, Ruben`s and other`s efforts in searching for the Penn. meteorite! Regarding what a meteorite is worth.... it is worth what you or someone is willing to pay, so I suggest that you re-phrase the question to the reporter when asked, and reply that "I am willing to pay up to... (or a realistic price) range". No dealer is likely to pay $1000/gr in the field for any fall unless it is extremely extremely rare and even then highly unlikely, as you should know. Setting unrealistic prices in the news creates unrealistic expectations. Maybe preparing in advance a "press release" for the press is important for reducing incorrect quotes? Beyond the above, I have no comments. Best in your and others successful hunt! Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Thu, 7/9/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA > To: drtanuki at yahoo.com, cynapse at charter.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 2:12 PM > Dirk, > > Yea, it is hard to answer the question: "What are > meteorites? worth?"? > Personally I don't like to lie to people and say they are > not? worth anything.??? > > Especially when a simple search on ebay will? show > that meteorites are > indeed worth from around 5 cents a gram up to $1,000 > a? gram.? > > When the reporters pressed me how much these would be > worth,? I refused to > give a number. I told them I didn't know, and there were > too many? factors > that would determine what they are worth. So I guess they > went with the? > simple shorter quote. > > I am not sure what you mean by "Anther Pirate? > show?"? Would you expound? > > Steve Arnold > > > > In a message dated 7/9/2009 12:03:44 A.M. Central Daylight > Time,? > drtanuki at yahoo.com > writes: > Meteorites are worth 5 cents a gram to $1,000 a? gram, > depending on how > rare they are, Arnold said. > > Another Pirate? show? > > **************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - > Limited Time Offer > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir=htt > p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D3) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Thu Jul 9 06:38:55 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 06:38:55 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 9, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_9_2009.html __________________________ **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) From P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk Thu Jul 9 07:23:16 2009 From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk (Peter Davidson) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 12:23:16 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies Message-ID: Mike Thanks for the welcome. I am beginning to feel a little punch-drunk! As a married father (2 teenage daughters) I fully understand what you are saying. Unfortunately, I don't know where you live so I cannot give you any specific advice on who to contact. Certainly trawl through the net to see of there is a museum with a mineral/meteorite collection close to you. Most museums have a web page and will give you an opportunity to contact them. Depending on the museum, they may, or may not have someone on the staff to answer your question or enquiry. If not they may refer you to a larger institution. If your local museum has a collection, but no curator, why not investigate the possibility of undertaking voluntary work? All museums, even national institutions, rely to a greater or lesser degree on the dedicated work volunteers put in. If you feel you have knowledge and/or expertise that the museum could benefit by, why not give it a go. The rules that govern the exchange of material depends on the institution and the material available. I can confirm that we have no meteorite material that we can use for exchange, but we do have some minerals that are available. But the possibility for exchange can vary between museums and between countries. You would need to check this out. Certainly a posting on a list such as meteorite-list might help to alert people. Finally, I agree wholeheartedly that it can only be of benefit to everyone if there is open and honest discussion between museums/curators and collectors/dealers. In my experience, most people are more than happy to co-operate. But there is a widespread misconception about public bodies and this is often hard to dispel. Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals National Museums Collection Centre National Museums Scotland 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Phone: +44 131 247 4283 p.davidson at nms.ac.uk www.nms.ac.uk -----Original Message----- From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com] Sent: 08 July 2009 17:05 To: Peter Davidson Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies Hi Peter, Welcome to the List. :) I do not speak for the list or a majority on it, so take my reply with the appropriate grain (or block) of salt. ;) I am an avid collector of meteorites and minerals (primarily meteorites), and I am also a happily married man. I mention the fact that I am married because there are parallels between the position of the married collector and the curator. I too operate within a strict budget and a set of rules that governs my ability to acquire and trade specimens. I do not mean to make light of the matter, but simply to say that I understand the necessity of balancing budget concerns and working within a framework of acceptable trading practices. Some wealthier collectors don't have this concern or it manifests to a lesser degree in their collecting. I want to thank you for taking the time to speak up and share your views on this issue as it effects the meteorite world. Speaking strictly as a collector, I would have little idea how to contact a museum or curator to begin establishing a working relationship that could include the exchange of specimens. The bigger and more established dealers are not going to broadcast their methods and connections to the rest of the world, so the next generation of major collectors is left in a position of ignorance regarding how to conduct business with museums and institutions. We either figure it out ourselves through trial and error, or we rely on the bigger and better-connected dealers to trade with the museums and then wait for the specimens to trickle down through the open marketplace. For example, how does a private collector approach a curator to open a dialogue? Does one just Google the museum and get a street address, phone number, or email address? And then contact the curator directly? Many private collectors think such direct contact would be frowned upon because the private collector may not have any official credentials - academic or otherwise. We would not want to waste the curator's time or make trouble for the museum staff. Also, I don't have any idea what kind of rules govern the trade between private individuals and museums/institutions. For example, I have a list of trading partners I have cultivated during my time of collecting. We often exchange specimens and the method involves the "honor system". If I say to my private trading partner - "I really like your slice of Barwell L5 chondrite, would you accept this fragment of Wold Cottage in trade for it?" - and if the deal is agreed upon, we simply pack up the specimen and mail it to the other party. There is no escrow or legal contacts involved - simply a gentleman's agreement that each person will live up to their end of the bargain. At any point, one person could fail to live up to their part and steal the other party's specimen - it's a risk of trading in this manner. (although it has never happened to me in countless trades) As a private collector, I would assume that museums and institutions that use public funds cannot conduct business in such a manner as private parties do. Surely there must be a vetting process of some kind to determine the reliability of the private part, paperwork, etc. Such stipulations, real or imagined, deter me from trying from conducting trades with museums, universities, and the like. I am one of those collectors who would love to see greater networking and cooperation between every member of the meteorite community - layperson and professional. But I am also one of those collectors who has little idea how to go about doing it. Perhaps this List is the perfect place to start. :) Best regards, MikeG On 7/8/09, Peter Davidson wrote: > This is my first posting on this list - please be gentle with me. I have > only been on the list a matter of a week or so and I seemed to have walked > into a veritable storm. I would like to share my views with you as a > curator. Please forgive this rather long mail. > > > > Taking a posting from Martin Altmann dated 7th July as my starting point, > here goes. > > > > I have never heard a law being described as "exotic". Do you mean idiotic? > > > > I can in no way speak on behalf of all curators, far less Australian ones. I > can only give you my own viewpoint but I do know many curators from > Australia, mostly mineralogists, and please believe me when I tell you they > are fine people and not the narrow-minded, nationalistic people hinted at in > a number of e-mails. I also noted that Martin Altmann stated that everybody > on the list was a "lousy layman" which is not only patently untrue but just > a little sexist. But I digress. > > > > Curators are every bit as dedicated to their collections as private > collectors are. We are not faceless bureaucrats (or similar) existing in > some Kafkaesque nightmare world hidebound by rules, and seeking to restrict > everyone else by creating a spider's web of red tape to trap the unwary. > That notion is as ridiculous to me as the presumption that all dealers > (minerals or meteorites) are shady and unscrupulous. As a curator at a > National Museum, I am obligated by law (yes, I know!) to preserve and > protect the collections of the museum and by extension, the nation. I choose > to do this. I work in the museum because I want to. Every curator I have met > shares with me a love of the specimens that they curate. We also share a > passionate believe that it is our duty to bring our collections to the > notice and attention of the public, and to make them available to > researchers and other curators. Believe me when I tell you that museum > curators/conservators are not well paid. We do it for love - well mostly. > When I joined the museum in 1975, I also had to undertake never to start and > build up my own collection. The collections of the museum ARE my > collections. > > > > I also feel that Martin overstates the influence scientist have at > governmental level. Yes, some scientists are asked to advise on certain > matters, but in the end it is the politician that decides. My observations > of this hated group, politicians that is, leads me to surmise that if some > short term political advantage can be gained by appealing to the masses, fed > to satedness by a largely right-wing populist press (the tabloids in the > UK), then they will always take that course of action, no matter what the > consequences are. This very often goes against the advice of > scientists/curators and negates many decades of good interaction between the > public and private sectors. As I mineralogist, I am painfully aware that the > market for display quality specimens has now passed beyond the reach of > publicly-funded museums. The meteorite market is no different. > > > > Nonetheless, as a curator at a National Museum, and I hope you can > understand this point of view, there is a duty to collect for the Nation > everything we can in order that we can research, interpret and explain to > the people of Scotland, its historical, sociological, artistic and > scientific heritage. The question raised by many contributors to the list > is: should meteorites fall into that category? Clearly the Australian > Government thought so, and so did the UK Government in the 1960's when > legislation was introduced to Parliament but never passed into law. > > > > We already do our utmost to protect other geological sites. This policy is > well intentioned and it can be argued that "fixed" geological outcrops, > either mineralogical or palaeontological are a finite resource. If > unscrupulous collectors plunder the site and remove all the material, then > it is lost forever. Meteorites are different in that they are not "fixed" > but are random in the sense that they can fall at any time, in any place. > However, from my point of view as a curator, ought I to have the desire to > possess in the National Collection, a sample of each of the four Scottish > falls? I do have that desire and the fact that the museum doesn't possess > all Scottish meteorites leads to a feeling of both consternation and > frustration. But it is a situation I accept > > > > Why don't you go and collect them yourself I hear you asking. Well, the > short answer is - we would love to. We do go on collecting trips, but these > are limited by budgetary constraints primarily, but also by the general > workload faced by all curators. This is why we have tried to build a network > of private collectors across the country that will work with is to the > benefit of both parties. But the inescapable fact is that the market in > geological specimens has moved onto a level which museums find it difficult > to operate in. We rely to a large extent on donations or possibly exchange. > Private collectors know that they can sell their specimens on the open > market and receive a much better price than a museum can offer. > > > > I was heartened to hear that some private collectors and dealers are in > favour of a greater collaboration with scientists and museums. All of us who > love meteorites need to continue to work closely. We require the raw > material to undertake research, and this gets fed back to the public through > our publications. Scientists do find new information in old specimens; we > would not be scientists if we did not constantly search for new data. But I > would just like to finish with this thought. Many young people are familiar > with meteorites through the media and the internet, but for many, the only > opportunity they get to see and touch them is through museums and their > curators. Many indeed of the list members may have been inspired to go and > collect by seeing meteorites in a museum. > > > > Martin. Please do not take this as a personal attack. I find your e-mails > well agued and thoughtful. Indeed it was your email that inspired me to pen > this message. I have spoken about this in other lists, in other places. The > meteorites will continue to fall, long after we are all gone. There should > be enough for everyone. > > > > Don't forget us! > > > > All donations gratefully accepted. > > Peter Davidson > Curator of Minerals > > National Museums Collection Centre > National Museums Scotland > 242 West Granton Road > Edinburgh > EH5 1JA > Phone: +44 131 247 4283 > p.davidson at nms.ac.uk > www.nms.ac.uk > > > > > Garden Detectives. Unearthing nature's little secrets. 26 Jun - 27 Sep. > Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden > > National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 > > This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the > addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the > author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. > This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of > Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that > may be caused to your systems or data by this message. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... Garden Detectives. Unearthing nature?s little secrets. 26 Jun ? 27 Sep. Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. From P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk Thu Jul 9 07:41:17 2009 From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk (Peter Davidson) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 12:41:17 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies Message-ID: James Thanks for the welcome and for the message of support. In list such as this, it is often difficult to get a balanced view because there are obviously many, many more collectors and dealers than there are curators. But that does not mean our voices should not be heard. I agree that I did not answer some of Martin's points, and in particular his analysis of the Australian and American finds. Using the data that Martin gives in his email, it is clear that there is a clear correlation between the increase in the number of finds coming onto the market and the imposition of the restrictive law. This is a perfectly valid argument. I did not raise any counter-argument because I accept the figures are true and I therefore cannot dispute these with a different set of figures that show a different position. This situation exists in many areas of life and is no less true of the mineral market, than it is of the meteorite market. The price of minerals or meteorites is rising all the time, and as prices rise, so the number of collectors and dealers that are active rises. The result is a steep rise in the material coming onto the market. This is fine as long as the market can support this situation, but as everyone knows, the property market upon which our banks build up their empires eventually collapsed and thus we have arrived at the current financial crisis (simplistic I know). Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals National Museums Collection Centre National Museums Scotland 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Phone: +44 131 247 4283 p.davidson at nms.ac.uk www.nms.ac.uk -----Original Message----- From: James Baxter [mailto:jbaxter112 at pol.net] Sent: 08 July 2009 17:09 To: Peter Davidson Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies Hello Peter, Welcome to the list. Thanks for your contribution. It is nice to get a curator's perspective. I'm sure most if not all list members are envious of your job and support your work. I do feel you have not answered Martin's central argument that if laws prohibiting export were not in place your Australian colleagues would have far more material to study through dealer and collector contributions and trades. As a humble private collector I like to think I am supporting (or at least not depriving) the public institutions' collections. I know many of the dealers I support with my purchases have donated or traded large amounts of material to public institutions. This may be simple rationalization, but I do feel Martin's numbers regarding finds in the US compared to Australia imply that we collectors are likely increasing rather than decreasing the amount of material available to these institutions. I would love to hear your thoughts about whether you feel this argument is valid. Best Wishes, Jim Baxter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Davidson" To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 4:02:08 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies This is my first posting on this list - please be gentle with me. I have only been on the list a matter of a week or so and I seemed to have walked into a veritable storm. I would like to share my views with you as a curator. Please forgive this rather long mail. Taking a posting from Martin Altmann dated 7th July as my starting point, here goes. I have never heard a law being described as "exotic". Do you mean idiotic? I can in no way speak on behalf of all curators, far less Australian ones. I can only give you my own viewpoint but I do know many curators from Australia, mostly mineralogists, and please believe me when I tell you they are fine people and not the narrow-minded, nationalistic people hinted at in a number of e-mails. I also noted that Martin Altmann stated that everybody on the list was a "lousy layman" which is not only patently untrue but just a little sexist. But I digress. Curators are every bit as dedicated to their collections as private collectors are. We are not faceless bureaucrats (or similar) existing in some Kafkaesque nightmare world hidebound by rules, and seeking to restrict everyone else by creating a spider's web of red tape to trap the unwary. That notion is as ridiculous to me as the presumption that all dealers (minerals or meteorites) are shady and unscrupulous. As a curator at a National Museum, I am obligated by law (yes, I know!) to preserve and protect the collections of the museum and by extension, the nation. I choose to do this. I work in the museum because I want to. Every curator I have met shares with me a love of the specimens that they curate. We also share a passionate believe that it is our duty to bring our collections to the notice and attention of the public, and to make them available to researchers and other curators. Believe me when I tell you that museum curators/conservators are not well paid. We do it for love - well mostly. When I joined the museum in 1975, I also had to undertake never to start and build up my own collection. The collections of the museum ARE my collections. I also feel that Martin overstates the influence scientist have at governmental level. Yes, some scientists are asked to advise on certain matters, but in the end it is the politician that decides. My observations of this hated group, politicians that is, leads me to surmise that if some short term political advantage can be gained by appealing to the masses, fed to satedness by a largely right-wing populist press (the tabloids in the UK), then they will always take that course of action, no matter what the consequences are. This very often goes against the advice of scientists/curators and negates many decades of good interaction between the public and private sectors. As I mineralogist, I am painfully aware that the market for display quality specimens has now passed beyond the reach of publicly-funded museums. The meteorite market is no different. Nonetheless, as a curator at a National Museum, and I hope you can understand this point of view, there is a duty to collect for the Nation everything we can in order that we can research, interpret and explain to the people of Scotland, its historical, sociological, artistic and scientific heritage. The question raised by many contributors to the list is: should meteorites fall into that category? Clearly the Australian Government thought so, and so did the UK Government in the 1960's when legislation was introduced to Parliament but never passed into law. We already do our utmost to protect other geological sites. This policy is well intentioned and it can be argued that "fixed" geological outcrops, either mineralogical or palaeontological are a finite resource. If unscrupulous collectors plunder the site and remove all the material, then it is lost forever. Meteorites are different in that they are not "fixed" but are random in the sense that they can fall at any time, in any place. However, from my point of view as a curator, ought I to have the desire to possess in the National Collection, a sample of each of the four Scottish falls? I do have that desire and the fact that the museum doesn't possess all Scottish meteorites leads to a feeling of both consternation and frustration. But it is a situation I accept Why don't you go and collect them yourself I hear you asking. Well, the short answer is - we would love to. We do go on collecting trips, but these are limited by budgetary constraints primarily, but also by the general workload faced by all curators. This is why we have tried to build a network of private collectors across the country that will work with is to the benefit of both parties. But the inescapable fact is that the market in geological specimens has moved onto a level which museums find it difficult to operate in. We rely to a large extent on donations or possibly exchange. Private collectors know that they can sell their specimens on the open market and receive a much better price than a museum can offer. I was heartened to hear that some private collectors and dealers are in favour of a greater collaboration with scientists and museums. All of us who love meteorites need to continue to work closely. We require the raw material to undertake research, and this gets fed back to the public through our publications. Scientists do find new information in old specimens; we would not be scientists if we did not constantly search for new data. But I would just like to finish with this thought. Many young people are familiar with meteorites through the media and the internet, but for many, the only opportunity they get to see and touch them is through museums and their curators. Many indeed of the list members may have been inspired to go and collect by seeing meteorites in a museum. Martin. Please do not take this as a personal attack. I find your e-mails well agued and thoughtful. Indeed it was your email that inspired me to pen this message. I have spoken about this in other lists, in other places. The meteorites will continue to fall, long after we are all gone. There should be enough for everyone. Don't forget us! All donations gratefully accepted. Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals ? National Museums Collection Centre National Museums Scotland 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Phone: +44?131 247 4283 p.davidson at nms.ac.uk www.nms.ac.uk ? ? Garden Detectives. Unearthing nature's little secrets. 26 Jun - 27 Sep. Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Garden Detectives. Unearthing nature?s little secrets. 26 Jun ? 27 Sep. Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. From scyphocrinites at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 08:44:56 2009 From: scyphocrinites at yahoo.com (Malek Youssef) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 05:44:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad : Cheap 6300 gr lot of Ordinary Chondrites Message-ID: <940524.25090.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi All I am offering a Lot of 6300 gr Ordinary Chondrites for cheap price , if interested , feel free to contact me to provide photos. Best Regards M.Youssef From MeteorHntr at aol.com Thu Jul 9 09:23:09 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 09:23:09 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA Message-ID: In a message dated 7/9/2009 4:46:27 A.M. Central Daylight Time, drtanuki at yahoo.com writes: Regarding what a meteorite is worth.... it is worth what you or someone is willing to pay, so I suggest that you re-phrase the question to the reporter when asked, and reply that "I am willing to pay up to... (or a realistic price) range". Dirk, The problem is that I am not willing to pay anything for a meteorite, at least not now. I didn't come here to buy a meteorite. And as such, I didn't talk to the media about buying one. I was asking for people to check their video and to come forward if they had any footage with the fireball. The reporters didn't ask me what I was willing to pay. They asked me somewhere in the context of "All this effort,spent time and money, to come up here and do all this work, are meteorites worth it?" Which I answered with the normal response of how they can be valuable to science, bla, bla, bla, and that museums and researchers and private collectors are interested, bla, bla, bla. And then I was asked "Well, what are meteorites worth?" And, even if I was wanting to buy a meteorite, I still would not quote a price, because I don't give quotes for purchase when I don't know how big it is, what condition it is in, or the supply and demand factors involved at the moment of making the offer. All that can change, and about the only thing certain, is that when the time might come to make a real offer on a real meteorite, I would most likely be willing to pay more or less, maybe far more or far less than any quote I would give back in the hypothetical stage. Again, the question to me wasn't what I was willing to pay, but what meteorites are worth. Now, I have some work to do, and some rocks to go find. Have a nice day. Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - Limited Time Offer (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D3) From P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk Thu Jul 9 09:27:13 2009 From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk (Peter Davidson) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 14:27:13 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies Message-ID: Martin Thanks you for your contribution. I am glad you agree with me on all of the points. Please don't worry about the language. I speak German, but I know that I also fail to pick up on the various nuances and differences in every speech. This is because I have very little opportunity to use it on a day-to-day basis. I am glad you accept that a museum, especially a National Museum, has an obligation placed upon it by the Government of that country to continually enhance the collections for the benefit of all the people and to make these collections available to everyone by whatever means possible. Within the museum, every department has a different policy for collecting. In the geological departments, it is our policy to continue to build up as comprehensive a collection of Scottish material (minerals and fossils) as we possibly can so that we can provide material for research and exhibitions. This includes loans to other researchers and museums. The meteorite collection does not have a policy at present. This is because I have only taken over the collection - I am a mineralogist - in the last few years and I have not had time to formulate a new policy. It would be impossible to try and acquire Scottish meteorites. The vast majority of available material is already in museum collections either in Scotland or London. This mitigates against enacting legislation about collecting meteorites as there is simply no material to collect - that we know about. We are left with looking at the collection and seeing where any significant gaps lie in terms of meteorite types and seeking to fill those gaps. The possibility of new falls cannot be discounted. This is, I believe, where difficulties may lie. As far as minerals are concerned, while we continue to examine the classic localities for new material, we also rely on a network of private collectors who keep us informed about new occurrences in their areas. This works well as we can provide analytical services to them, in return for some donations. This also alerts us to new localities which we might try and visit ourselves. Meteorites are a different matter. They are much more random and can fall anywhere at any time. The law protects important mineral and fossil sites, but meteorites have no legal status. I would hope that if a fall is spotted, someone can contact me and I will try and get to the site. I don't want to set up a deliberate conflict between private collectors and public bodies. I also think that a legally binding system of restricting the collecting and exportation of meteorites would be unproductive and unworkable. It is like the "war" on drug abuse. The arguments about legalising drug use is centred in the desire of authorities to keep it visible and therefore controllable but incurring huge public health bills to deal with users, or to ban drug use and drive it underground requiring huge police costs. Any restriction on collecting would have to have effective policing to work, and this is just not possible. I would favour a simple notification scheme whereby any fall is notified to the authorities and allows institutions such as museums and universities to opportunity to collect themselves. But this too relies on the honesty of people and with meteorite fetching such a high price, this leaves it open to abuse from unscrupulous collectors. Any system really needs to be discussed with all parties and a voluntary code set out, agreeable to all. We are not your enemies Best Wishes Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals National Museums Collection Centre National Museums Scotland 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Phone: +44 131 247 4283 p.davidson at nms.ac.uk www.nms.ac.uk -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Martin Altmann Sent: 08 July 2009 19:20 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies Hello Peter, Confrere, Finally a curator writing on the list to limn that complex from his angle, many thanks for that. Peter, if you read my postings, you will find, that I agree with all your points. (somewhere you read maybe something behind the lines, which in fact doesn't stand there, perhaps it's also because I can't express myself so nuanced in that foreign language, my fault). Well. Nobody on the list here and in the private meteorite sector casts the slightest doubts on the eligibility of national institutes to get parts of the finds and falls of their country into their collections. On contrary they all welcome that. The problems are different and unfortunately quite dramatic. To most of them I wrote a whole epic here on the list, Today I won't recapitulate that all, because today I'm ill. The main question is: What does the "official" side want. A) Do they want to have large quantities of rare meteorites and new recoveries? Hence more an objective target pointing in the direction of research, space exploration ect. B) Do they want to have saved their national heritage or however one could call it? That is a more historic and conservatorical approach. Subsequent question is: What for instruments do we have and shall we use to achieve the first goal or the second goal or even both. (and with the special regard, that many institutes don't have anymore the financial funds, which they had the 200 years before). The instruments urgently suggested or already working make the goals A) and B) to incompatible opposites. and as all data and statistics undisputedly demonstrate, these instruments counteract both goals. So we should get perhaps first clarity, what the "official" side wants. (btw. the division into private and official antagonists is, as often you can read it though, unhistoric and highly artificial). And then we have to think, whether we do want an improvement, a persistence on the status quo or a worsening. Most of my posts tended to avoid at least that the situation get's worse. For today, Martin PS. Mark, I have to profoundly disagree. The meteorite prices of the last 200 years, as well as the expenses of institutional collections are preserved and knownof today . They prove that meteorites never were so cheap than in this decade and that the meteorite prices on the commercial sector are - by far - the lowest in history. (which makes that not so Gordian situation especially bizarre). -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Peter Davidson Gesendet: Mittwoch, 8. Juli 2009 13:02 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies This is my first posting on this list - please be gentle with me. I have only been on the list a matter of a week or so and I seemed to have walked into a veritable storm. I would like to share my views with you as a curator. Please forgive this rather long mail. Taking a posting from Martin Altmann dated 7th July as my starting point, here goes. I have never heard a law being described as "exotic". Do you mean idiotic? I can in no way speak on behalf of all curators, far less Australian ones. I can only give you my own viewpoint but I do know many curators from Australia, mostly mineralogists, and please believe me when I tell you they are fine people and not the narrow-minded, nationalistic people hinted at in a number of e-mails. I also noted that Martin Altmann stated that everybody on the list was a "lousy layman" which is not only patently untrue but just a little sexist. But I digress. Curators are every bit as dedicated to their collections as private collectors are. We are not faceless bureaucrats (or similar) existing in some Kafkaesque nightmare world hidebound by rules, and seeking to restrict everyone else by creating a spider's web of red tape to trap the unwary. That notion is as ridiculous to me as the presumption that all dealers (minerals or meteorites) are shady and unscrupulous. As a curator at a National Museum, I am obligated by law (yes, I know!) to preserve and protect the collections of the museum and by extension, the nation. I choose to do this. I work in the museum because I want to. Every curator I have met shares with me a love of the specimens that they curate. We also share a passionate believe that it is our duty to bring our collections to the notice and attention of the public, and to make them available to researchers and other curators. Believe me when I tell you that museum curators/conservators are not well paid. We do it for love - well mostly. When I joined the museum in 1975, I also had to undertake never to start and build up my own collection. The collections of the museum ARE my collections. I also feel that Martin overstates the influence scientist have at governmental level. Yes, some scientists are asked to advise on certain matters, but in the end it is the politician that decides. My observations of this hated group, politicians that is, leads me to surmise that if some short term political advantage can be gained by appealing to the masses, fed to satedness by a largely right-wing populist press (the tabloids in the UK), then they will always take that course of action, no matter what the consequences are. This very often goes against the advice of scientists/curators and negates many decades of good interaction between the public and private sectors. As I mineralogist, I am painfully aware that the market for display quality specimens has now passed beyond the reach of publicly-funded museums. The meteorite market is no different. Nonetheless, as a curator at a National Museum, and I hope you can understand this point of view, there is a duty to collect for the Nation everything we can in order that we can research, interpret and explain to the people of Scotland, its historical, sociological, artistic and scientific heritage. The question raised by many contributors to the list is: should meteorites fall into that category? Clearly the Australian Government thought so, and so did the UK Government in the 1960's when legislation was introduced to Parliament but never passed into law. We already do our utmost to protect other geological sites. This policy is well intentioned and it can be argued that "fixed" geological outcrops, either mineralogical or palaeontological are a finite resource. If unscrupulous collectors plunder the site and remove all the material, then it is lost forever. Meteorites are different in that they are not "fixed" but are random in the sense that they can fall at any time, in any place. However, from my point of view as a curator, ought I to have the desire to possess in the National Collection, a sample of each of the four Scottish falls? I do have that desire and the fact that the museum doesn't possess all Scottish meteorites leads to a feeling of both consternation and frustration. But it is a situation I accept Why don't you go and collect them yourself I hear you asking. Well, the short answer is - we would love to. We do go on collecting trips, but these are limited by budgetary constraints primarily, but also by the general workload faced by all curators. This is why we have tried to build a network of private collectors across the country that will work with is to the benefit of both parties. But the inescapable fact is that the market in geological specimens has moved onto a level which museums find it difficult to operate in. We rely to a large extent on donations or possibly exchange. Private collectors know that they can sell their specimens on the open market and receive a much better price than a museum can offer. I was heartened to hear that some private collectors and dealers are in favour of a greater collaboration with scientists and museums. All of us who love meteorites need to continue to work closely. We require the raw material to undertake research, and this gets fed back to the public through our publications. Scientists do find new information in old specimens; we would not be scientists if we did not constantly search for new data. But I would just like to finish with this thought. Many young people are familiar with meteorites through the media and the internet, but for many, the only opportunity they get to see and touch them is through museums and their curators. Many indeed of the list members may have been inspired to go and collect by seeing meteorites in a museum. Martin. Please do not take this as a personal attack. I find your e-mails well agued and thoughtful. Indeed it was your email that inspired me to pen this message. I have spoken about this in other lists, in other places. The meteorites will continue to fall, long after we are all gone. There should be enough for everyone. Don't forget us! All donations gratefully accepted. Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals ? National Museums Collection Centre National Museums Scotland 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Phone: +44?131 247 4283 p.davidson at nms.ac.uk www.nms.ac.uk ? ? Garden Detectives. Unearthing nature's little secrets. 26 Jun - 27 Sep. Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Garden Detectives. Unearthing nature?s little secrets. 26 Jun ? 27 Sep. Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. From drtanuki at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 09:37:20 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 06:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA Message-ID: <498627.13647.qm@web53108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Steve and List, Your answer points to the need of an advance-prepared press release so that reporters get their facts straight and so that there is less chance of a mis-quote. Reporters are infamous for making headlines and ignoring the facts. Good use of the reporter and news to get the word out for video evidence. Have a great day in your hunt! Best, Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Thu, 7/9/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA > To: drtanuki at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 10:23 PM > In a message dated 7/9/2009 4:46:27 > A.M. Central? Daylight Time, > drtanuki at yahoo.com > writes: > Regarding what a meteorite is? worth.... it is worth > what you or someone is > willing to pay, so I suggest that? you re-phrase the > question to the > reporter when asked, and reply that "I am? willing to > pay up to... (or a realistic > price) range".??? > > Dirk, > > The problem is that I am not willing to pay anything for > a? meteorite, at > least not now. I didn't come here to buy a meteorite. And > as such,? I didn't > talk to the media about buying one.? I was asking for > people to? check their > video and to come forward if they had any footage with the > fireball.? > > The reporters didn't ask me what I was willing to > pay.? They asked? me > somewhere in the context of "All this effort,spent time and > money, to come up? > here and do all this work, are meteorites worth it?"? > Which I answered with? > the normal response of how they can be valuable to science, > bla, bla, bla, > and? that museums and researchers and private > collectors are interested, bla, > bla,? bla.? And then I was asked "Well, what are > meteorites worth?" > > And,? even if I was wanting to buy a meteorite, I > still would not quote a > price,? because I don't give quotes for purchase when > I don't know how big it > is, what? condition it is in, or the supply and demand > factors involved at > the moment of? making the offer.? All that can > change, and about the only > thing certain,? is that when the time might come to > make a real offer on a > real meteorite, I? would most likely be willing to pay > more or less, maybe far > more or far less? than any quote I would give back in > the hypothetical > stage.? ? > > Again, the question to me wasn't what I was willing to pay, > but what? > meteorites are worth.? > > Now, I have some work to do, and some rocks? to go > find. > > Have a nice day. > > Steve Arnold > of "Meteorite Men"? > > **************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - > Limited Time Offer > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir=htt > p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D3) > From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Jul 9 09:58:52 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 07:58:52 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA References: Message-ID: <0E67FAE9E251408A9766AA3E9C74B4CE@bellatrix> A strewn field can be at any orientation with respect to the original meteor path, and can lie some miles from the terminal explosion location, depending on the height of the explosion and the winds. It is very difficult to determine where meteorites will land, even with accurate video records and good weather data (from a weather balloon). At best, you can narrow it down to a few tens of square miles. After that, it's back to the tried and true: interviewing people on the ground, and searching. Also, it shouldn't be overlooked that a large fireball, even with a terminal explosion, is very likely to produce no meteorites at all. Better camera data can help access the likelihood of that by helping to narrow down the entry angle and velocity. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 1:37 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA > Hey All, > > Just for everyone's information, I personally think that if at least two > good video's can be found from two different locations, the intersection > can > be found where the MD-PA bolide extinguished. That should be the heart > of > the strewnfield. From drtanuki at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 09:59:34 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 06:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] PA Seismic Data files Message-ID: <428954.53913.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List, I have the seismic data files for the Pennsylvania meteor event. Does anyone on this list have experience in using GSE2.1 files and SeisGram2K viewer? Thank you in advance. Please contact me off list. Dirk Ross...Tokyo From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jul 9 10:02:31 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 16:02:31 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002e01ca009d$f02a4d10$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Peter, please allow me, that I dare to disagree, at one point only. (haven't recovered yet). >At their deaths, >universities and museum were often the beneficiaries of their wills and >many private collections came into public hands this way. > There was no real market >place for geological specimens in the sense we know it today, so prices >were lower - comparatively. I come to a somewhat different result at least on the field of meteorites. Meteorites, not so surprising, were and are rare. Most of the largest institutional meteorite collections of the world, Acquired most of their meteorites from private persons. New falls anyway, cause in most cases no officer of the crown war at hand, when a meteorite decided to fall... no, more seriously, the collections grew and some started at all by the means of donations of private collections, but also more by the purchase of collections from private collectors and, not so surprisingly, by the purchase from museums/geological/ meteorite dealers! And they were regularly buying from meteorite dealers ever then. That some collections nowadays don't or can't buy meteorites anymore, is rather a very recent phenomenon. Only a few examples. Chicago Field - they started with meteorites, when they bought the complete display of Henry Augustus Ward from the Columbian Exhibition in 1893. Henry Ward was a commercial dealer of museum display items and he was a meteorite dealer, the biggest of his times in USA. After his death, in 1912 there was a bidding race between the AMNH in New York, the Smithonian and Chicago Field to purchase Ward's private collection. And Chicago won and paid 1.8 million of USD (inflation adjusted) to the heirs. Let's stay in Chicago - the Adler Planetarium has a fine meteorite collection. Max Adler naturally hadn't found them by his own, he naturally purchased them and he purchased them from a dealer, Anton Mensing. How London in your country started? In 1810 they purchased the Greville-collection for more than 1 million USD. Maskelyne afterwards extended the meteorite collection excessively with more than 200 locales - most of them he purchased from August Krantz. August Krantz was nothing else than a commercial dealer, running a geological warehouse (the firm still exists). All important museums were buying from Krantz. What Koser is today for Campo, Krantz was at his times for Pultusk. And these were also the times, of the sometimes almost ruinous races between the top collections of the world, where they spend really large sums to purchase meteorites. Fletcher - you know it buy your own, the funny anecdote how he achieved to buy the Crumlin fall, in bribing the niece of the private owner in paying her an organon, hoping she would persuade her uncle to sell to him. Of course Fletcher was buying too. Hey - who later was also in the UNESCO working group for meteorites, where, if you read the first report, it was for them in that group a matter of course, that there exist meteorite dealers to buy from - Hey bought a part of the collection from a certain meteorite dealer, named Nininger. The sources differ, some say it was half, others a third, others a fifth of the collection (I guess it's only differently counted, by weight, by number of specimens, by number of locales). He paid more than 1 million USD. I'm to lazy to look, what did the wive of Peary got from the AMNH for Cape York? Ah let me search though... I read 40,000$ in 1904 - inflation calculator says: is 912022.77$ in 2007 Hey dealers on the list here, hands up, when did you have your last 900,000$ sale? Enough examples - let's recommend rather a good read, Peter "The history of meteoritics and key meteorite collections" By Gerald Joseph Home McCall, A. J. Bowden, Richard John Howarth There the members could find many examples more. In my eyes hence it's an illusion, that meteorites were in former times mainly donated to the top collections, that there was no market and that they were cheaper than today. The price lists of Krantz, of Ward, of the Foote Company, of Nininger, Huss, Zeitschel they still do exist. So we can prove that meteorites are today much much much much much more cheaper than ever - and that solely due to the increased activities of the private meteorite hunters and dealers. In fact the only real historical bargain I can remember, was when NIPR in Tokyo, purchased the collection of meteorite dealer Walter Zeitschel (the largest private meteorite collection of these times). The price was obscenely low. Greetings to Walter, who is currently in hospital again. Peter, Mark! - do you remember the trade formula Wuelfing developed for the curators helping to estimate the right trade ratios of 2 locales, when they swap? Emil Cohen (the one from the cohenite) tested then whether this formula is reflected in the actual - please forgive me, I don't know how to say it else - how they are reflected in the market prices of his days. For that purpose he published a compilation of all market prices in 1899, which he had collected in that decade. Please note also, that as these times there were only 700 meteorites known, from these 700 meteorites Cohen lists more than 300 with their prices! Which were avalaible for sale. Only to compare, when I started in the early 1980ies with collecting, from the 3000 locales less than 10% were available for sale. So I fear, there was something like a kind of market... Cohen's compilation - that were the prices your colleagues of these times, the curators, had to pay and were paying. I once made the work to turn the meteorites names of these lists into the modern names in use and to convert the prices into today's USD-prices. That was difficult, cause they were given in Goldmark. That converted and inflation adjusted price compilation, Michael Blood saved online under the link, I give below. (just search on this page for "Cohen" it's in the middle somewhere). IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT !!! If you want to use it now. My conversion factor there is WRONG !!! Today I have more exact information. (source Statistisches Bundesamt) The purchase power of the Goldmark suffered quite a devaluation in the very years after Cohen had published his lists and my comparison values stem from that later values... So you have to MULTIPLY the GIVEN PRICE BY 5.4 To get the correct equivalents of today. PRICE x 5.4 http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/MMT1.html I hope that is interesting... Well, but more recently... when I started collecting, I had to pay up to 9$/g for a Sikhote. Now we had several years, where you got the best quality at a standard price of 0.3$/g. My first Muonionalusta I had to pay with more than 20$/g, because there were only 3 pieces known. Now the privateers dig out several tons and if you as curator wants to have a sample in your collection, you have to pay not more than 100$ per kilogram or you have to swap a 200times smaller amount of your material in exchange. Brahin - at my times not available and if, then expensive as Esquel. Now you can have it for below 1$. Brenham - I sincerely doubt, whether you could have bought it from a Nininger in the 1950ies at 0.06$/g which would be the equivalent of today's Brenham bulk price. And please don't come with Allende, yes Allende was cheaper than today, but it was an unique and sudden impact of a ton on the market. In turn take the Pultusks found today in the field, they cost just 1-2$/g more than Krantz asked right after the fall. Kainsaz, Kainsaz had cost once 50-100$/g, when the new specimens were found, the finders brought the prices down to 2 or 3$ a gram! That you could buy a fresh and pristine fall at 1-3$/g like Juancheng, El Hammami, Bassikonou, Chergach, Tamdaght, Bensour, Zag, Ben Guerir Happened as far as I can see only twice in history. Allende and Alfianello. I made a Cohen-like price compilation of the years 2000 and 2001. With the complete offers of more than 80 dealers and private offerers. For the rare types you had to pay then 10-50 times more than today. Peter, Mark - if you wanted to have an acapulcoite in your collection, 15-10 years ago you had the choice between a Monument Draw at an average price of 900$ a gram (all inflation-adjusted) or an Acapulco at 1300$/g. You saw me and Stefan selling in Ensisheim acapulcoites at 40$/g in small slices. Rumurutiites - you had to pay 250, 300 and up. We're selling them now starting at 9$/g for slices, up to 25$/g if it's a very pretty one and for the W0 and W0/1er rivalling Rumuruti as a fall, there we asked 50$-60$, because there exist only 4 small stones on Earth. Brachinites - have you noticed that we asked 50 Euro/g ? That is all stuff rarer than any Moon or Martian! Apropos lunaites - the 5 different lunaites we have, for the price we ask for them altogether you hardly can run the McMurdo Station in Antarctica for 3 or 4 days, but all teams from ANSMET, NIPR, Chinese Polar Research need on average more than 6 years to find the same number and amount of lunaites. Nuff. I don't know much about the artefacts, art, fossils, mineral market - if the developments are there like you said, they are so, but then you have to see, that the meteorite "market" obviously evolved decoupled from that general evolution and in exactly the opposite direction. The bulk from Sahara are unclassified weathered chondrites. They are retailed to the collectors and to the curators, if they want, at prices down to 25$/kg. Can anybody name an example in history, where a meteorite was available at such a price...... Peter, Mark - I'm writing that not to show what for a weisenheimer I am and good heavens don't take it under no circumstances as an personal attack. I'm only desperate - you know that dealer, hunter and collectors bashing you can read everywhere in publications and in media, I'm desperate cause so few are willing to take notice what however happened and is happening in reality. Because how shall we enter any meaningful discussion to find a compromise or a solution, if we don't even know or ignore the fundamental facts? Let me close with a thesis. A thesis which is not keen. I say: To acquire the complete output of new meteorite finds done by the private side in a year and worldwide, there are necessary not more than 10 million USD. Off to bed now. Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Peter Davidson Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Juli 2009 10:23 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies Mark, I would like to answer some of your allegations if I may and perhaps open a debate about where collected material goes. There seems to be a rather broad misconception about museums and their collections. Let me just start by saying that collectors have made an inestimable contribution to the furtherance of science. There is no disputing this. As science developed from the late 17th Century, collectors and explorers went out into the wide world to search for the unusual, exotic and unseen. Of course this material went to universities and museums, where else could it go? It was these fast developing institutions that were at the cutting edge of scientific research up to and beyond the Victorian Age. There were private collectors, but they were often former academics and almost certainly university educated. At their deaths, universities and museum were often the beneficiaries of their wills and many private collections came into public hands this way. It also has to be remembered that museum collections, including our own, were originally set-up as teaching collections. There was no real market place for geological specimens in the sense we know it today, so prices were lower - comparatively. The clientele, such as it was, was also largely middle- or upper-class and financially very well off. However, the notion that there is a "flow" of newly found material into museums is not entirely true. I do not work in an artefact-based department. It would therefore be unfair of me to comment to any great degree on their collecting policies. As I stated above, much of the material in museum drawers are donated/bequeathed objects or collections acquired by purchase. In any collection, there is a variable proportion of material that can be described as "contextless" or "difficult". But what may at the time be considered of lesser value may after subsequent research prove to be of greater value. It is on that basis museums often appear to hoard excess material. It is also often the case that once material is registered, it is very difficult and, I would personally add undesirable, to sell-off this material. If this material is contextless, then it can surely have no value in the market place anyway. Would you buy a shapeless lump of rock or pottery whose only provenance is "found in museum drawer"? On the scientific side, the "value" of an object can be viewed differently. As a mineralogist, as well as the obvious aesthetic qualities of some objects, there is also the scientific value. Some of the rarest and most "precious" of our objects are (to an aesthete) uninspiring and dull. Yet to a mineralogist, they may be the finest examples of a mineral species in the World. As for a never-ending flow of objects disappearing into museum collections. Let me assure you that if this is happening, then it is being done by elves at night when there are no museum staff around. As far as owning the objects. Well in that sense the museums doesn't own the specimens. The people of Scotland own them, all five million of us, and they are available for viewing either in galleries, online or by appointment for free. You only have to ask. Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals National Museums Collection Centre National Museums Scotland 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Phone: +44 131 247 4283 p.davidson at nms.ac.uk www.nms.ac.uk -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mark Ford Sent: 08 July 2009 16:01 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies Also we should never underestimate the contribution made to science by collectors! This is particularly true of meteorites, if no-one collected them, and created the resources needed for hunting them, our museum draws would actually be much emptier I suspect - Yes the market price would (arguably) be a little bit lower but how exactly does that help find more meteorites?? Imho, one of the reasons the market prices keep going up (particularly with historic artifacts) is newly found stuff simply flows in one direction into museum collections and archives. further limiting the market availability, this will only get worse if the supply of material to collectors gets even further choked off, by stupid blanket laws - for example if museums where allowed to trade and sell off some of the artifacts that are not needed then the market value would drop to sensible levels. (Ironically, there are countless thousands of useless orphaned contextless artifacts, that can serve no useful purpose sitting in museum draws all over the world, some are probably worth a small fortune on the open market - surely we should consider using some of this to fund much more important work, before we target private collectors). I believe we actually all have a personal responsibility to only keep and collect what we actually need to collect, museums included, that way everyone gets the chance to own these treasures without needing a mortgage, After all there is only so much to go round. Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Peter Davidson Sent: 08 July 2009 12:02 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies This is my first posting on this list - please be gentle with me. I have only been on the list a matter of a week or so and I seemed to have walked into a veritable storm. I would like to share my views with you as a curator. Please forgive this rather long mail. Taking a posting from Martin Altmann dated 7th July as my starting point, here goes. I have never heard a law being described as "exotic". Do you mean idiotic? I can in no way speak on behalf of all curators, far less Australian ones. I can only give you my own viewpoint but I do know many curators from Australia, mostly mineralogists, and please believe me when I tell you they are fine people and not the narrow-minded, nationalistic people hinted at in a number of e-mails. I also noted that Martin Altmann stated that everybody on the list was a "lousy layman" which is not only patently untrue but just a little sexist. But I digress. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Garden Detectives. Unearthing natures little secrets. 26 Jun  27 Sep. Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. From MeteorHntr at aol.com Thu Jul 9 10:33:21 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 10:33:21 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA Message-ID: Chris, I agree to a point. But if one has some good video, there is nothing even the best eye witness of a 1 am fireball could add. Once it goes dark, there is nothing to see to report on. Maybe if it was a day time fireball, someone might see a stone hitting the ground, but not at night. The burn out spot is as close as we can get, then it is time to walk, or to ask, via the media, for other people to look in that area. Of course even more camera info can only help beyond just finding the landing zone. Steve In a message dated 7/9/2009 8:59:39 A.M. Central Daylight Time, clp at alumni.caltech.edu writes: A strewn field can be at any orientation with respect to the original meteor path, and can lie some miles from the terminal explosion location, depending on the height of the explosion and the winds. It is very difficult to determine where meteorites will land, even with accurate video records and good weather data (from a weather balloon). At best, you can narrow it down to a few tens of square miles. After that, it's back to the tried and true: interviewing people on the ground, and searching. Also, it shouldn't be overlooked that a large fireball, even with a terminal explosion, is very likely to produce no meteorites at all. Better camera data can help access the likelihood of that by helping to narrow down the entry angle and velocity. Chris **************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - Limited Time Offer (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D3) From drtanuki at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 10:39:59 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 07:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] How far away can a meteor be heard? Message-ID: <387233.12473.qm@web53106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> List, I have the answer for thunder but not a meteor (I am guessing that they are about the same? 10miles or 16km Chris or anyone care to give the correct answer? Thanks! Thunder contains a somewhat cylindrical initial pressure shock wave along the lightning channel in excess of 10 times the normal atmospheric pressure. This shock wave decays rapidly into a sound wave within feet or meters. When thunder is heard from about 328 feet (100 m) distance, it consists of one large bang, yet hissing and clicking may be heard just prior to the bang (upward streamers). When heard at .6 mile (1 km) from lightning, thunder will rumble with several loud claps. Thunder is seldom heard beyond 10 miles (16 km) under ideal conditions. The sound of distant thunder has a characteristic low-pitched rumbling sound. Pitch, the degree of highness or lowness of a sound, is due to strong absorption and scattering of high-frequency components of the original sound waves, while the rumbling results from the fact that sound waves are emitted from different locations along the lightning channel, which lie at varying distances from a person. The longer the lightning channels, the longer the sound of thunder. Humans hear frequencies of thunder between 20-120 Hertz (Hz). However, there is a small amount, less than 10%, that is inaudible to humans produced from lightning, called infrasonic. Special listening devices are required to record these inaudible sounds. Sources: http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_info/thunder2.html Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Jul 9 10:44:29 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 08:44:29 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA References: Message-ID: <3195DC3B16FE4C8AB95953FBAE42D769@bellatrix> No, witness reports continue to be a big help. In particular, reports about sonic booms can be very helpful. It has been observed in many cases that these tend to be heard only near the fall zone, and this has proved very useful for a number of meteorite hunters. If you have good information about the location of the terminal explosion, the next step is to interview people on the ground in an effort to narrow down the search area. There should be good radiosonde data available in most places as well. Once the height of the terminal explosion is determined, this should be used to model the dark flight. This data can be the difference between an uncertainty on the ground of a few square miles versus hundreds of square miles. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 8:33 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA > Chris, > > I agree to a point. But if one has some good video, there is nothing > even > the best eye witness of a 1 am fireball could add. Once it goes dark, > there is nothing to see to report on. Maybe if it was a day time > fireball, > someone might see a stone hitting the ground, but not at night. > > The burn out spot is as close as we can get, then it is time to walk, or > to ask, via the media, for other people to look in that area. > > Of course even more camera info can only help beyond just finding the > landing zone. > > Steve From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Jul 9 10:49:28 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 08:49:28 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] How far away can a meteor be heard? References: <387233.12473.qm@web53106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5A5D7E7FF7A647138A76B78BF0FEF49E@bellatrix> I have many reliable reports of people hearing sonic booms from terminal explosions located over 30 miles above them. I can't say easily what horizontal distance I've had reports from, but I'm sure it's more than 10 miles. FWIW, I can hear fireworks set off about 30 miles away from my house, and about 5000 feet higher elevation. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "drtanuki" To: ; "Chris Peterson" Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 8:39 AM Subject: How far away can a meteor be heard? > > List, > I have the answer for thunder but not a meteor (I am guessing that they > are about the same? 10miles or 16km > > Chris or anyone care to give the correct answer? Thanks! > > Thunder contains a somewhat cylindrical initial pressure shock wave along > the lightning channel in excess of 10 times the normal atmospheric > pressure. This shock wave decays rapidly into a sound wave within feet or > meters. When thunder is heard from about 328 feet (100 m) distance, it > consists of one large bang, yet hissing and clicking may be heard just > prior to the bang (upward streamers). When heard at .6 mile (1 km) from > lightning, thunder will rumble with several loud claps. > > Thunder is seldom heard beyond 10 miles (16 km) under ideal conditions. > The sound of distant thunder has a characteristic low-pitched rumbling > sound. Pitch, the degree of highness or lowness of a sound, is due to > strong absorption and scattering of high-frequency components of the > original sound waves, while the rumbling results from the fact that sound > waves are emitted from different locations along the lightning channel, > which lie at varying distances from a person. The longer the lightning > channels, the longer the sound of thunder. Humans hear frequencies of > thunder between 20-120 Hertz (Hz). However, there is a small amount, less > than 10%, that is inaudible to humans produced from lightning, called > infrasonic. Special listening devices are required to record these > inaudible sounds. > Sources: http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_info/thunder2.html > > Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo From MeteorHntr at aol.com Thu Jul 9 10:53:18 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 10:53:18 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA Message-ID: Chris, How fast is a meteoroid going when it burns out? And at what point in the flight does it go below the speed of the sound barrier? I might have been mistaken, but I thought really close to the point of dark flight it slowed down where the sonic booms stopped being crated as well. Also, which meteorites in the past do you have record of that traveled extensively beyond the burn out point? And how far beyond that point have meteorites continued to fly? Of course with a 20 mile long strewnfield, the distance of the burn out spot from the leading and trailing edge could differ greatly. Steve In a message dated 7/9/2009 9:45:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time, clp at alumni.caltech.edu writes: No, witness reports continue to be a big help. In particular, reports about sonic booms can be very helpful. It has been observed in many cases that these tend to be heard only near the fall zone, and this has proved very useful for a number of meteorite hunters. If you have good information about the location of the terminal explosion, the next step is to interview people on the ground in an effort to narrow down the search area. There should be good radiosonde data available in most places as well. Once the height of the terminal explosion is determined, this should be used to model the dark flight. This data can be the difference between an uncertainty on the ground of a few square miles versus hundreds of square miles. **************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - Limited Time Offer (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D3) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Thu Jul 9 10:56:31 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 10:56:31 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] How far away can a meteor be heard? Message-ID: We have probably 75 reports of the locations of the sonic booms here. I suppose gathering a few thousand more reports would be handy, but it would slow down the process of finding the rocks. Maybe someone else who has the time to process all of them should contact the media and request sonic boom reports be sent to them. Steve In a message dated 7/9/2009 9:50:04 A.M. Central Daylight Time, clp at alumni.caltech.edu writes: I have many reliable reports of people hearing sonic booms from terminal explosions located over 30 miles above them. I can't say easily what horizontal distance I've had reports from, but I'm sure it's more than 10 miles. FWIW, I can hear fireworks set off about 30 miles away from my house, and about 5000 feet higher elevation. Chris **************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - Limited Time Offer (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D3) From moni2555 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 9 11:07:16 2009 From: moni2555 at hotmail.com (Moni Waiblinger) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 08:07:16 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies In-Reply-To: <002e01ca009d$f02a4d10$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <002e01ca009d$f02a4d10$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Good Morning list, I for one love to read Martin Altmann's post for all the knowledge and effort he puts into them! I believe this one has such good information it should be put in one of the future Meteorite Magazine. What do you think Mr. Lebofsky? :-) With best regards, Moni > From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 16:02:31 +0200 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies > > Peter, > > please allow me, that I dare to disagree, at one point only. > (haven't recovered yet). > >>At their deaths, >>universities and museum were often the beneficiaries of their wills and >>many private collections came into public hands this way. >> There was no real market >>place for geological specimens in the sense we know it today, so prices >>were lower - comparatively. > > I come to a somewhat different result at least on the field of meteorites. > > Meteorites, not so surprising, were and are rare. > Most of the largest institutional meteorite collections of the world, > Acquired most of their meteorites from private persons. > New falls anyway, cause in most cases no officer of the crown war at hand, > when a meteorite decided to fall... no, more seriously, the collections grew > and some started at all by the means of donations of private collections, > but also more by the purchase of collections from private collectors and, > not so surprisingly, by the purchase from museums/geological/ meteorite > dealers! And they were regularly buying from meteorite dealers ever then. > That some collections nowadays don't or can't buy meteorites anymore, > is rather a very recent phenomenon. > > Only a few examples. Chicago Field - they started with meteorites, > when they bought the complete display of Henry Augustus Ward from the > Columbian Exhibition in 1893. > Henry Ward was a commercial dealer of museum display items > and he was a meteorite dealer, the biggest of his times in USA. > > After his death, in 1912 there was a bidding race between the AMNH in New > York, the Smithonian and Chicago Field to purchase Ward's private > collection. > And Chicago won and paid 1.8 million of USD (inflation adjusted) to the > heirs. > > Let's stay in Chicago - the Adler Planetarium has a fine meteorite > collection. Max Adler naturally hadn't found them by his own, > he naturally purchased them and he purchased them from a dealer, > Anton Mensing. > > How London in your country started? > In 1810 they purchased the Greville-collection for more than 1 million USD. > Maskelyne afterwards extended the meteorite collection excessively with more > than 200 locales - most of them he purchased from August Krantz. > August Krantz was nothing else than a commercial dealer, running a > geological warehouse (the firm still exists). All important museums were > buying from Krantz. What Koser is today for Campo, Krantz was at his times > for Pultusk. > And these were also the times, of the sometimes almost ruinous races between > the top collections of the world, where they spend really large sums to > purchase meteorites. > Fletcher - you know it buy your own, the funny anecdote how he achieved to > buy the Crumlin fall, in bribing the niece of the private owner in paying > her an organon, hoping she would persuade her uncle to sell to him. > Of course Fletcher was buying too. > Hey - who later was also in the UNESCO working group for meteorites, > where, if you read the first report, it was for them in that group a matter > of course, that there exist meteorite dealers to buy from - > Hey bought a part of the collection from a certain meteorite dealer, named > Nininger. The sources differ, some say it was half, others a third, others a > fifth of the collection (I guess it's only differently counted, by weight, > by number of specimens, by number of locales). > He paid more than 1 million USD. > > I'm to lazy to look, what did the wive of Peary got from the AMNH for Cape > York? Ah let me search though... > I read 40,000$ in 1904 - inflation calculator says: is 912022.77$ in 2007 > > Hey dealers on the list here, hands up, when did you have your last 900,000$ > sale? > > Enough examples - let's recommend rather a good read, Peter > > "The history of meteoritics and key meteorite collections" > By Gerald Joseph Home McCall, A. J. Bowden, Richard John Howarth > > There the members could find many examples more. > > > In my eyes hence it's an illusion, that meteorites were in former times > mainly donated to the top collections, that there was no market and that > they were cheaper than today. > > The price lists of Krantz, of Ward, of the Foote Company, of Nininger, Huss, > Zeitschel they still do exist. So we can prove that meteorites are today > much much much much much more cheaper than ever - and that solely due to the > increased activities of the private meteorite hunters and dealers. > > In fact the only real historical bargain I can remember, was when NIPR in > Tokyo, purchased the collection of meteorite dealer Walter Zeitschel (the > largest private meteorite collection of these times). > The price was obscenely low. > Greetings to Walter, who is currently in hospital again. > > Peter, Mark! - do you remember the trade formula Wuelfing developed for the > curators helping to estimate the right trade ratios of 2 locales, when they > swap? > > Emil Cohen (the one from the cohenite) tested then whether this formula is > reflected in the actual - please forgive me, I don't know how to say it else > - how they are reflected in the market prices of his days. > > For that purpose he published a compilation of all market prices in 1899, > which he had collected in that decade. > > Please note also, that as these times there were only 700 meteorites known, > from these 700 meteorites Cohen lists more than 300 with their prices! > Which were avalaible for sale. > > Only to compare, when I started in the early 1980ies with collecting, from > the 3000 locales less than 10% were available for sale. > So I fear, there was something like a kind of market... > > Cohen's compilation - that were the prices your colleagues of these times, > the curators, had to pay and were paying. > > I once made the work to turn the meteorites names of these lists into the > modern names in use and to convert the prices into today's USD-prices. > That was difficult, cause they were given in Goldmark. > That converted and inflation adjusted price compilation, Michael Blood saved > online under the link, I give below. (just search on this page for "Cohen" > it's in the middle somewhere). > > IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT - IMPORTANT !!! > > If you want to use it now. > > My conversion factor there is WRONG !!! > > Today I have more exact information. (source Statistisches Bundesamt) > The purchase power of the Goldmark suffered quite a devaluation in the very > years after Cohen had published his lists and my comparison values stem from > that later values... > > So you have to MULTIPLY the GIVEN PRICE BY 5.4 > > To get the correct equivalents of today. > > > PRICE x 5.4 > > http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/MMT1.html > > > I hope that is interesting... > > > Well, but more recently... when I started collecting, I had to pay up to > 9$/g for a Sikhote. > Now we had several years, where you got the best quality at a standard price > of 0.3$/g. > My first Muonionalusta I had to pay with more than 20$/g, because there were > only 3 pieces known. Now the privateers dig out several tons > and if you as curator wants to have a sample in your collection, you have to > pay not more than 100$ per kilogram or you have to swap a 200times smaller > amount of your material in exchange. > Brahin - at my times not available and if, then expensive as Esquel. > Now you can have it for below 1$. > Brenham - I sincerely doubt, whether you could have bought it from a > Nininger in the 1950ies at 0.06$/g which would be the equivalent of today's > Brenham bulk price. > And please don't come with Allende, yes Allende was cheaper than today, but > it was an unique and sudden impact of a ton on the market. > In turn take the Pultusks found today in the field, they cost just 1-2$/g > more than Krantz asked right after the fall. > Kainsaz, Kainsaz had cost once 50-100$/g, when the new specimens were found, > the finders brought the prices down to 2 or 3$ a gram! > That you could buy a fresh and pristine fall at 1-3$/g like Juancheng, El > Hammami, Bassikonou, Chergach, Tamdaght, Bensour, Zag, Ben Guerir > Happened as far as I can see only twice in history. > Allende and Alfianello. > > I made a Cohen-like price compilation of the years 2000 and 2001. > With the complete offers of more than 80 dealers and private offerers. > For the rare types you had to pay then 10-50 times more than today. > > Peter, Mark - if you wanted to have an acapulcoite in your collection, > 15-10 years ago you had the choice between a Monument Draw at an average > price of 900$ a gram (all inflation-adjusted) or an Acapulco at 1300$/g. > > You saw me and Stefan selling in Ensisheim acapulcoites at 40$/g in small > slices. > Rumurutiites - you had to pay 250, 300 and up. > We're selling them now starting at 9$/g for slices, up to 25$/g if it's a > very pretty one and for the W0 and W0/1er rivalling Rumuruti as a fall, > there we asked 50$-60$, because there exist only 4 small stones on Earth. > Brachinites - have you noticed that we asked 50 Euro/g ? > > That is all stuff rarer than any Moon or Martian! > Apropos lunaites - the 5 different lunaites we have, for the price we ask > for them altogether you hardly can run the McMurdo Station in Antarctica for > 3 or 4 days, > but all teams from ANSMET, NIPR, Chinese Polar Research need on average more > than 6 years to find the same number and amount of lunaites. > > Nuff. I don't know much about the artefacts, art, fossils, mineral market > - if the developments are there like you said, they are so, > but then you have to see, that the meteorite "market" obviously evolved > decoupled from that general evolution and in exactly the opposite direction. > > The bulk from Sahara are unclassified weathered chondrites. > They are retailed to the collectors and to the curators, if they want, > at prices down to 25$/kg. > Can anybody name an example in history, where a meteorite was available at > such a price...... > > Peter, Mark - I'm writing that not to show what for a weisenheimer I am > and good heavens don't take it under no circumstances as an personal attack. > > I'm only desperate - you know that dealer, hunter and collectors bashing you > can read everywhere in publications and in media, > I'm desperate cause so few are willing to take notice what however happened > and is happening in reality. > > > Because how shall we enter any meaningful discussion to find a compromise or > a solution, if we don't even know or ignore the fundamental facts? > > Let me close with a thesis. > A thesis which is not keen. I say: > > To acquire the complete output of new meteorite finds done by the private > side in a year and worldwide, > there are necessary not more than 10 million USD. > > Off to bed now. > Martin > > _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jul 9 11:15:43 2009 From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 08:15:43 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] How far away can a meteor be heard? In-Reply-To: <387233.12473.qm@web53106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That?s a good question. There's one major difference between a meteor-produced sonic boom and thunder - altitude. Most thunderstorms occur below 10 km altitude while fireballs occur well up in the 20-30 km range. That means that the fireball should propagate to a wider area, but it seems in practice that their sonic booms are highly directional. I think its a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison, since thunder radiates omnidirectionally from low altitude while fireballs "push" a compression wave ahead of their direction of travel at a much higher altitude. Thunder also propagates without seeing much in the way of change in air pressure, while fireball sonic booms radiate downward through a pretty substantial increase in air pressure. So my answer is... It depends. (Which is almost always the answer to a scientific question!) People directly along the path of a fireball should hear something louder than those off to the sides, I would expect. In principle a fireball's sonic boom should also travel farther since it starts higher up, but I suspect that propagating downward and outward through increasingly thicker atmosphere would serve to deflect and diminish it. I bet that research into airburst nuclear weapons blasts included modeling of shock waves and would be very useful for answering that question, but I'm thinking that we're not going to get a look at that data any time soon. Just a hunch. On 7/9/09 7:39 AM, "drtanuki" wrote: > > > List, > I have the answer for thunder but not a meteor (I am guessing that they are > about the same? 10miles or 16km > > Chris or anyone care to give the correct answer? Thanks! > > Thunder contains a somewhat cylindrical initial pressure shock wave along the > lightning channel in excess of 10 times the normal atmospheric pressure. This > shock wave decays rapidly into a sound wave within feet or meters. When > thunder is heard from about 328 feet (100 m) distance, it consists of one > large bang, yet hissing and clicking may be heard just prior to the bang > (upward streamers). When heard at .6 mile (1 km) from lightning, thunder will > rumble with several loud claps. > > Thunder is seldom heard beyond 10 miles (16 km) under ideal conditions. The > sound of distant thunder has a characteristic low-pitched rumbling sound. > Pitch, the degree of highness or lowness of a sound, is due to strong > absorption and scattering of high-frequency components of the original sound > waves, while the rumbling results from the fact that sound waves are emitted > from different locations along the lightning channel, which lie at varying > distances from a person. The longer the lightning channels, the longer the > sound of thunder. Humans hear frequencies of thunder between 20-120 Hertz > (Hz). However, there is a small amount, less than 10%, that is inaudible to > humans produced from lightning, called infrasonic. Special listening devices > are required to record these inaudible sounds. > Sources: http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_info/thunder2.html > > Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 11:17:30 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 08:17:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteoritehunter fights with Museum Message-ID: <589315.30159.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.sta.si/en/vest.php?s=a&id=1408119 and you guys wonder why we want to keep the location of the new AZ fall secret. Michael Farmer From drtanuki at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 11:41:04 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 08:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteoritehunter fights with Museum Message-ID: <880545.45128.qm@web53103.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Here is what I posted on the Weblog http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2009/07/german-meteorite-news-thomas-grau-finds.html Tuesday, July 07, 2009 German Meteorite News- Thomas Grau Finds Meteorite Fall in Slovenia 9JUL09 Deutscher findet Meteorit in Slowenien Bild.de Ein seltener Meteoritenfund ist einem Deutschen nach eigenen Angaben in Slowenien gelungen. Thomas Grau aus Bernau (Brandenburg) entdeckte in der Grenzregion zu ?sterreich einen 2,35 Kilogramm schweren Gesteinsbrocken aus dem All. Der Meteorit war am 9. April im Karawanken-Gebirge niedergegangen und zerbrochen. Er hatte seinen Fund aus dem Mai k?rzlich auf einem Treffen des deutschen Feuerkugel-Netzwerks vorgestellt. Grau hatte bereits den Meteoriten entdeckt, der im Januar f?r eine spektakul?re Feuerkugel am Himmel ?ber dem Ostseeraum gesorgt hatte. Er fand das St?ck im M?rz auf der d?nischen Insel Lolland. http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/telegramm/news-ticker,rendertext=8946900.html English Translation: A German according to own information in Slovenia has managed a rare meteorite finding. Thomas Grau from Bernau (Brandenburg) discovered in the border region to Austria a 2.35 kilogram rock lump from a Fall. The meteorite had come down on the 9th April in the Karawanken mountains and had broken. He had introduced his finding from May recently on a meeting of the German fire ball-network. Grau had already discovered the meteorite which had provided in January for a spectacular fire ball in the sky about the Baltic Sea area. He found the piece in March on the Danish island Lolland. Posted by LunarMeteorite*Hunter at 3:15 PM --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteoritehunter fights with Museum > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 12:17 AM > > http://www.sta.si/en/vest.php?s=a&id=1408119 > > > and you guys wonder why we want to keep the location of the > new AZ fall secret. > Michael Farmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jul 9 11:56:06 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 17:56:06 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteoritehunter fights with Museum In-Reply-To: <589315.30159.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <589315.30159.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000601ca00ad$c58d1460$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Who knows, whether there is a conflict at all. This is press, media.. See the rubbish with the German pupil struck by a meteorite. Even the first word on that page is wrong, as Grau is certainly no astronomer. I would rather think, that the Slovenian museum is happy, that this new fall was recovered, and perhaps it's a translation mistake and "clash" means "negotiate". The Danish meteorite will end in the Copenhagen museum too, Villalbeto ended a lot in Spanish museums, Neuschwanstein will end 80% or more in Austrian and German museums, And so on. Cause we all are so brave and good gals&boyz. Martin (Who thinks, that every new meteorite found is certainly no disgrace or annoyance!) -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Michael Farmer Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Juli 2009 17:18 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Meteoritehunter fights with Museum http://www.sta.si/en/vest.php?s=a&id=1408119 and you guys wonder why we want to keep the location of the new AZ fall secret. Michael Farmer ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jul 9 11:56:58 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 09 Jul 2009 15:56:58 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] How far away can a meteor be heard? Message-ID: Hello List, Here's what Buchwald wrote about the Treysa meteorite fall in 1916: BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Vol. 3, pp. 1232-1235): A mass of 63.28 kg fell April 3, 1916 at 15:25 hrs (14:25 hrs Greenwhich time). Numerous eyewitnesses saw a fireball that moved, in four seconds, with an average (geocentric) velocity of 16.3 km/s in a trajectory inclined 55? to the horizontal from N 15? W to S 15? E. The intensity of the light from the fireball gradually decreased until it disappeared at the unusually low altitude of 16.4 km. The heliocentric velocity was calculated to be 37.5 km/s corresponding to an elliptic orbit within the solar system. Due to fine weather the meteorite was observed from an area 135 km in radius. The whole train, 81 km long, was visible as a whitish band that slowly became blurred until it vanished after 10 minutes. Eyewitnesses within a radius of 50 km heard a detonation a few minutes after the fireball had disappeared, and some witnesses near the end point of the trajectory allegedly observed a black body falling. Good luck to all those trying to hunt it down, Bernd From m_graul at yahoo.de Thu Jul 9 12:09:47 2009 From: m_graul at yahoo.de (Mirko Graul) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 16:09:47 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteoritehunter fights with Museum Message-ID: <621964.38623.qm@web26301.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear List members, i think there is no dispute! The museum in Slovenia have the the largest fragments and nearly 2 Kilo from this stone! So i see the newspaper articles as information only. Many greetings to all Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de Member of The Meteoritical Society (International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) From drtanuki at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 12:32:48 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 09:32:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA Message-ID: <111176.83508.qm@web53112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks Chris! My observations from the photo of the video camera and the video are that the video camera was pointed basically North and that the meteor appeared to travel basically east. Is this and other`s take on the direction of travel? Thanks, Dirk --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Chris Peterson wrote: > From: Chris Peterson > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 10:58 PM > A strewn field can be at any > orientation with respect to the original meteor path, and > can lie some miles from the terminal explosion location, > depending on the height of the explosion and the winds. It > is very difficult to determine where meteorites will land, > even with accurate video records and good weather data (from > a weather balloon). At best, you can narrow it down to a few > tens of square miles. After that, it's back to the tried and > true: interviewing people on the ground, and searching. > > Also, it shouldn't be overlooked that a large fireball, > even with a terminal explosion, is very likely to produce no > meteorites at all. Better camera data can help access the > likelihood of that by helping to narrow down the entry angle > and velocity. > > Chris > > ***************************************** > Chris L Peterson > Cloudbait Observatory > http://www.cloudbait.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 1:37 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: - "witness" to July 6 > Fireball PA > > > > Hey All, > > > > Just for everyone's? information, I personally > think that if at least two > > good video's can be found? from two different > locations, the intersection can > > be found where the MD-PA? bolide > extinguished.? That should be the heart of > > the strewnfield. > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jul 9 12:27:07 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 09 Jul 2009 16:27:07 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] How far away can a meteor be heard? Message-ID: All you (hopefully: lucky) hunters might also have to factor this into your calculations and hunting preparations: During its luminous phase which lasted over 40 seconds, the Peekskill meteoroid covered a ground path of some 700 to 800 km according to Brown et al. (1994). Aerodynamic drag caused a greater than 20 km longitudinal displacement of the fragments and the transverse displacement was about 1km for some of the smaller fragments. Video Observations of the Peekskill Meteorite Fireball: Atmospheric Trajectory and Orbit (Meteoritics 29-4, 1994, p. 455): The dark flight of the recovered meteorite started from a height of 30 km, when the velocity dropped below 3 km/s, and the body continued an additional horizontal distance of 50 km without ablation, until it hit a parked car in Peekskill, New York, with a vertical velocity of about 80 m/s. Good luck! Bernd From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jul 9 12:49:19 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 18:49:19 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000e01ca00b5$34b57bf0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hi Peter, me again... >Using the data that Martin gives in his email, it is clear that there is a >clear correlation between the increase in the number of finds coming onto >the market and the imposition of the restrictive law. There are even more impressive figures. You remember Libya, the DaGs, HaHs ect. In 6 years there are recorded 1048 finds. Then the hunters stayed away. In the following 7 last years in Libya not more than 45 meteorites were still found. A similar decline we would face in Oman, if the authorities there would enforce in a stronger way the new regulations there, perhaps not to that extend, cause the Suisse-Omani-teams are there at work, but of course they can't find that much as before was found. I gave here once the comparison of the figures of Lunars and Martian found in the same time between "private" & "official" hunts in Oman. I don't want to repeat them here, for not being misunderstood, that I would have something against the Suisse-Oman-teams, on contrary. On the NWA sector we face already the beginning decline since Algeria had introduced new regularities. And currently a group of scientists is eager to introduce similar laws in Morocco. NWA- has a larger dimension, as there a multiple more of meteorites are found than in Antarctica, Australia and Oman together. If such laws will come in force, then it's easy to predict, that we will have then soon a situation like in Australia. And that all in all the short period with the amazing find rates and the most important finds will be definetely history. That's why I asked yesterday, what the goals should be. Getting meteorites for research or preserve the meteorites as national heritage. If one introduce protectionist laws in the desert countries, Then there won't be almost no finds anymore, there won't be any thousands finds per year anymore, and almost all of the few dozens finds still made then will be weathered chondrites. In turn, this very few finds could be saved better as national heritages. So I wanted to know, what is more desirable for the "official" side. Cheers! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Peter Davidson Gesendet: Donnerstag, 9. Juli 2009 13:41 An: James Baxter Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies James Thanks for the welcome and for the message of support. In list such as this, it is often difficult to get a balanced view because there are obviously many, many more collectors and dealers than there are curators. But that does not mean our voices should not be heard. I agree that I did not answer some of Martin's points, and in particular his analysis of the Australian and American finds. Using the data that Martin gives in his email, it is clear that there is a clear correlation between the increase in the number of finds coming onto the market and the imposition of the restrictive law. This is a perfectly valid argument. I did not raise any counter-argument because I accept the figures are true and I therefore cannot dispute these with a different set of figures that show a different position. This situation exists in many areas of life and is no less true of the mineral market, than it is of the meteorite market. The price of minerals or meteorites is rising all the time, and as prices rise, so the number of collectors and dealers that are active rises. The result is a steep rise in the material coming onto the market. This is fine as long as the market can support this situation, but as everyone knows, the property market upon which our banks build up their empires eventually collapsed and thus we have arrived at the current financial crisis (simplistic I know). Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals National Museums Collection Centre National Museums Scotland 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Phone: +44 131 247 4283 p.davidson at nms.ac.uk www.nms.ac.uk -----Original Message----- From: James Baxter [mailto:jbaxter112 at pol.net] Sent: 08 July 2009 17:09 To: Peter Davidson Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies Hello Peter, Welcome to the list. Thanks for your contribution. It is nice to get a curator's perspective. I'm sure most if not all list members are envious of your job and support your work. I do feel you have not answered Martin's central argument that if laws prohibiting export were not in place your Australian colleagues would have far more material to study through dealer and collector contributions and trades. As a humble private collector I like to think I am supporting (or at least not depriving) the public institutions' collections. I know many of the dealers I support with my purchases have donated or traded large amounts of material to public institutions. This may be simple rationalization, but I do feel Martin's numbers regarding finds in the US compared to Australia imply that we collectors are likely increasing rather than decreasing the amount of material available to these institutions. I would love to hear your thoughts about whether you feel this argument is valid. Best Wishes, Jim Baxter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Davidson" To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 4:02:08 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [meteorite-list] A Curator Replies This is my first posting on this list - please be gentle with me. I have only been on the list a matter of a week or so and I seemed to have walked into a veritable storm. I would like to share my views with you as a curator. Please forgive this rather long mail. Taking a posting from Martin Altmann dated 7th July as my starting point, here goes. I have never heard a law being described as "exotic". Do you mean idiotic? I can in no way speak on behalf of all curators, far less Australian ones. I can only give you my own viewpoint but I do know many curators from Australia, mostly mineralogists, and please believe me when I tell you they are fine people and not the narrow-minded, nationalistic people hinted at in a number of e-mails. I also noted that Martin Altmann stated that everybody on the list was a "lousy layman" which is not only patently untrue but just a little sexist. But I digress. Curators are every bit as dedicated to their collections as private collectors are. We are not faceless bureaucrats (or similar) existing in some Kafkaesque nightmare world hidebound by rules, and seeking to restrict everyone else by creating a spider's web of red tape to trap the unwary. That notion is as ridiculous to me as the presumption that all dealers (minerals or meteorites) are shady and unscrupulous. As a curator at a National Museum, I am obligated by law (yes, I know!) to preserve and protect the collections of the museum and by extension, the nation. I choose to do this. I work in the museum because I want to. Every curator I have met shares with me a love of the specimens that they curate. We also share a passionate believe that it is our duty to bring our collections to the notice and attention of the public, and to make them available to researchers and other curators. Believe me when I tell you that museum curators/conservators are not well paid. We do it for love - well mostly. When I joined the museum in 1975, I also had to undertake never to start and build up my own collection. The collections of the museum ARE my collections. I also feel that Martin overstates the influence scientist have at governmental level. Yes, some scientists are asked to advise on certain matters, but in the end it is the politician that decides. My observations of this hated group, politicians that is, leads me to surmise that if some short term political advantage can be gained by appealing to the masses, fed to satedness by a largely right-wing populist press (the tabloids in the UK), then they will always take that course of action, no matter what the consequences are. This very often goes against the advice of scientists/curators and negates many decades of good interaction between the public and private sectors. As I mineralogist, I am painfully aware that the market for display quality specimens has now passed beyond the reach of publicly-funded museums. The meteorite market is no different. Nonetheless, as a curator at a National Museum, and I hope you can understand this point of view, there is a duty to collect for the Nation everything we can in order that we can research, interpret and explain to the people of Scotland, its historical, sociological, artistic and scientific heritage. The question raised by many contributors to the list is: should meteorites fall into that category? Clearly the Australian Government thought so, and so did the UK Government in the 1960's when legislation was introduced to Parliament but never passed into law. We already do our utmost to protect other geological sites. This policy is well intentioned and it can be argued that "fixed" geological outcrops, either mineralogical or palaeontological are a finite resource. If unscrupulous collectors plunder the site and remove all the material, then it is lost forever. Meteorites are different in that they are not "fixed" but are random in the sense that they can fall at any time, in any place. However, from my point of view as a curator, ought I to have the desire to possess in the National Collection, a sample of each of the four Scottish falls? I do have that desire and the fact that the museum doesn't possess all Scottish meteorites leads to a feeling of both consternation and frustration. But it is a situation I accept Why don't you go and collect them yourself I hear you asking. Well, the short answer is - we would love to. We do go on collecting trips, but these are limited by budgetary constraints primarily, but also by the general workload faced by all curators. This is why we have tried to build a network of private collectors across the country that will work with is to the benefit of both parties. But the inescapable fact is that the market in geological specimens has moved onto a level which museums find it difficult to operate in. We rely to a large extent on donations or possibly exchange. Private collectors know that they can sell their specimens on the open market and receive a much better price than a museum can offer. I was heartened to hear that some private collectors and dealers are in favour of a greater collaboration with scientists and museums. All of us who love meteorites need to continue to work closely. We require the raw material to undertake research, and this gets fed back to the public through our publications. Scientists do find new information in old specimens; we would not be scientists if we did not constantly search for new data. But I would just like to finish with this thought. Many young people are familiar with meteorites through the media and the internet, but for many, the only opportunity they get to see and touch them is through museums and their curators. Many indeed of the list members may have been inspired to go and collect by seeing meteorites in a museum. Martin. Please do not take this as a personal attack. I find your e-mails well agued and thoughtful. Indeed it was your email that inspired me to pen this message. I have spoken about this in other lists, in other places. The meteorites will continue to fall, long after we are all gone. There should be enough for everyone. Don't forget us! All donations gratefully accepted. Peter Davidson Curator of Minerals ? National Museums Collection Centre National Museums Scotland 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA Phone: +44?131 247 4283 p.davidson at nms.ac.uk www.nms.ac.uk ? ? Garden Detectives. Unearthing nature's little secrets. 26 Jun - 27 Sep. Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Garden Detectives. Unearthing nature?s little secrets. 26 Jun ? 27 Sep. Admission free: www.nms.ac.uk/garden National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From darryl at dof3.com Thu Jul 9 12:23:56 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 12:23:56 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA In-Reply-To: <498627.13647.qm@web53108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <498627.13647.qm@web53108.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <54548ABB-1673-466D-9124-FCAD76BF95DE@dof3.com> Hiya, It has been my experience that editorial desks to do not want canned quotes from press releases for feature stories any more than the photo department wants to rely on canned publicity images. If it's a remotely serious publication, they will not base the story on the press release when the story and frequently it's barely referred to--- as this is contrary to journalistic ethics. A press release is all- too-frequently merely the bait which attracts an assignment editor and it starts and stops there. Publications hope to create their own content. Sometimes a story will be almost entirely predicated on a press release but this is rarely occurs except in trade mags, community listings, small community papers, etc. It's difficult to control content or perspective....hence the notion of "spin." All best and good luck. If I didn't have to travel overseas later today for my day job I would most definitely be out there with you. Jealous and wishing you much success!!! On Jul 9, 2009, at 9:37 AM, drtanuki wrote: > > Dear Steve and List, > Your answer points to the need of an advance-prepared press release > so that reporters get their facts straight and so that there is less > chance of a mis-quote. Reporters are infamous for making headlines > and ignoring the facts. > Good use of the reporter and news to get the word out for video > evidence. > Have a great day in your hunt! Best, Dirk Ross...Tokyo > > --- On Thu, 7/9/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > >> From: MeteorHntr at aol.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] - "witness" to July 6 Fireball PA >> To: drtanuki at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 10:23 PM >> In a message dated 7/9/2009 4:46:27 >> A.M. Central Daylight Time, >> drtanuki at yahoo.com >> writes: >> Regarding what a meteorite is worth.... it is worth >> what you or someone is >> willing to pay, so I suggest that you re-phrase the >> question to the >> reporter when asked, and reply that "I am willing to >> pay up to... (or a realistic >> price) range". >> >> Dirk, >> >> The problem is that I am not willing to pay anything for >> a meteorite, at >> least not now. I didn't come here to buy a meteorite. And >> as such, I didn't >> talk to the media about buying one. I was asking for >> people to check their >> video and to come forward if they had any footage with the >> fireball. >> >> The reporters didn't ask me what I was willing to >> pay. They asked me >> somewhere in the context of "All this effort,spent time and >> money, to come up >> here and do all this work, are meteorites worth it?" >> Which I answered with >> the normal response of how they can be valuable to science, >> bla, bla, bla, >> and that museums and researchers and private >> collectors are interested, bla, >> bla, bla. And then I was asked "Well, what are >> meteorites worth?" >> >> And, even if I was wanting to buy a meteorite, I >> still would not quote a >> price, because I don't give quotes for purchase when >> I don't know how big it >> is, what condition it is in, or the supply and demand >> factors involved at >> the moment of making the offer. All that can >> change, and about the only >> thing certain, is that when the time might come to >> make a real offer on a >> real meteorite, I would most likely be willing to pay >> more or less, maybe far >> more or far less than any quote I would give back in >> the hypothetical >> stage. >> >> Again, the question to me wasn't what I was willing to pay, >> but what >> meteorites are worth. >> >> Now, I have some work to do, and some rocks to go >> find. >> >> Have a nice day. >> >> Steve Arnold >> of "Meteorite Men" >> >> **************Dell Studio XPS Desktop: Save up to $400 - >> Limited Time Offer >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222466512x1201463496/aol?redir=htt >> p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D3) >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jul 9 12:42:08 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 09 Jul 2009 16:42:08 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] A double heads-up re: Sky & Telescope articles Message-ID: Hi List, 1) The August issue of S&T was in my mailbox today. On pp. 22-25, you'll find J.K. Beatty's* article entitled: Asteroid Shatters Over Sudan: Catch A Fallen Star * You will have seen and read his post: "Seismic Data search for 6JUL09 meteor" 2) In the September issue of Sky & Telescope (on your newsstands by August 4th), you'll find an article about: "Ice Age Impact: Did a wayward comet wipe out large North American mammals?" Cheers, Bernd From fujmon at mac.com Thu Jul 9 12:55:08 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 06:55:08 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] How far away can a meteor be heard? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5641BCCF-DE4E-4E51-A0C1-1452EA927371@mac.com> Aloha Bernd, Thank you for the data on Peekskill. If memory serves me correctly Peekskill exhibited an extended luminous phase due in part to a shallower entry angle into the earth's atmosphere. This PA fireball, from video footage, appears to fall at a steeper angle and therefore should cover a shorter groundpath. Best of luck to all in the field, and happy hunting! gary On Jul 9, 2009, at 6:27 AM, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > All you (hopefully: lucky) hunters might also have to factor this > into your > calculations and hunting preparations: > > During its luminous phase which lasted over 40 seconds, the > Peekskill meteoroid > covered a ground path of some 700 to 800 km according to Brown et > al. (1994). > > Aerodynamic drag caused a greater than 20 km longitudinal > displacement of the > fragments and the transverse displacement was about 1km for some of > the > smaller fragments. > > > Video Observations of the Peekskill Meteorite Fireball: Atmospheric > Trajectory and Orbit (Meteoritics 29-4, 1994, p. 455): > > The dark flight of the recovered meteorite started from a height of > 30 km, when > the velocity dropped below 3 km/s, and the body continued an > additional horizontal > distance of 50 km without ablation, until it hit a parked car in > Peekskill, New York, > with a vertical velocity of about 80 m/s. > > Good luck! > > Bernd > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jul 9 20:56:58 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 17:56:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - July 8, 2009 Message-ID: <200907100056.n6A0uwbb015983@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES July 8, 2009 o Search for the Mars Polar Lander http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013368_1035 o Ramparts in Tooting Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013089_2040 o Ramparts in Tooting Crater (Stereo Pair) http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013023_2040 o Gullies in Acidalia Planitia Region http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011898_2175 o Interesting SHARAD Features http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011878_1045 o Layering and Faulting in Candor Chasma http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011873_1675 o Spring View of Crater with South Polar Layered Material http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011749_1000 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From deanbessey at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 21:29:54 2009 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 18:29:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension Message-ID: <995470.8749.qm@web56108.mail.re3.yahoo.com> As if you didnt need another reason to try and diversify your business away from ebay here is what happened to me this morning. I am not making any part of this up or in any way dramatizing what happened. Neither Stephen King nor the guys on CSI could make this up. I wake up to numerous emails from ebay this morning from ebay cancelling my auctions and two emails saying that my account was suspended. Many auctions were canceled because they were "Significantly misrepresented". After 3 hours of chatting with people I finally get through to the "trust and safety" people after a recommendation from ebay australia. I was told that somebody (who??? - she had no way of knowing who) decided that my auctions were misrepresented. She couldent tell me what was misrepresented just that they look at the description, picture and content when deciding was what misrepresented but she had no way of knowing exactly what. So I try and reason with her. "If you cant tell me what it is about my auctions that was misrepresented how can I not repeat the problem in the future? Sit down before you read her response. She said that if ebay told everybody what they look for when they decide that auctions are misrepresented then people would do things to get around their security checks in future auctions so it would be a security violation to tell me what it was about my auctions that was being misrepresented and therfore canceled (And leading to my suspension.) She then said that my suspension was for 7 days so even if she did tell me it wouldent make any difference because you cant list on ebay for 7 days again anyway. Reasoning is getting harder. "OK, for my information. in seven days time when I get back on ebay again can you tell me what about my auctions was misrepresented so that I can fix them and not violate your policy in the future so I dont get kicked off again?". Sorry, telling you what the problem is would be a security violation and if people who what they looked for would do things to circumvent their rules in the future". This is going nowhere. I wish that I had a copy of that phone conversation. It would have looked good on youtube. In addition, the emails that ended the auctions said this: ---------------------------------------------------- eBay has restricted your ability to list new items as a result of a policy violation. We'd be happy to lift this restriction once you've completed a brief tutorial about this policy. The next time you sign in to your eBay account, click on ?Sell? and ?Sell Your Item.? You?ll then be asked to take the tutorial. Once you've completed it, you can begin selling again immediately. __________________________________________ Unfortunately, doing so is not possible so I cant even sign on. Even their emails dont make sense. So with a bit of luck, sometime in the next 7 days they will tell me what was wrong with my auctions so that I can fix it and not violate their policy - although maybe they will not because doing so might enable me to fix the problem out and circumvent their rules in the future. I plan to spend the next 7 days getting some shopping cart websites built and trying out other sites to sell stuff. Anybody got any ideas where else to list stuff? Anybody know somebody with ebay who will talk to me? Apparantly it was my pearl auctions that was somehow misrepresented but its not possible to find out why. It sgoing to be a pain relisting 1700 auctions. It probably wont get done - especially if I can figure out how to build a nice shopping cart website Cheers DEAN On a completely different note I need to come up with around $2000 in my paypal account in the next week so I am particularly into dealing from my website right now WWW.METEORITESHOP.COM so if you see anything let me know. Also, you people out there who owe me money, now is a good time to pay up. From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 21:46:19 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 18:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension Message-ID: <370255.86571.qm@web46411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Wow, that sucks man. Ebay really is such a joke anymore. They do nothing about people who sell fake meteorites unless you really give them hell, yet they do things like this. I was listing links to my website (before I even had it set up with prices and such) and Ebay pulled something like 25 of my listings about a year ago. It seems someone was reporting my listings for violating ebay policy about links... I then relisted them and included links to the Meteorite database, those were pulled becouse you could supposedly link from that to places that had meteorites for sale - that were not even mine! I have been trying to get a power seller status to reduce the costs of fees, but for someone like me that really does not sell much, its pretty hard to do - I loose something like 15-20% of my sales to fees... I wish Erics meteorite auction site would have taken off, or someone would come up with a viable ebay alternative that would do well. anyway, I hope you are able to get whatever it was worked out. It sucks ebay will suspend you but not provide better information as to the reason. Greg C. --- On Thu, 7/9/09, dean bessey wrote: > From: dean bessey > Subject: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 9:29 PM > > As if you didnt need another reason to try and diversify > your business away from ebay here is what happened to me > this morning. I am not making any part of this up or in any > way dramatizing what happened. Neither Stephen King nor the > guys on CSI could make this up. > I wake up to numerous emails from ebay this morning from > ebay cancelling my auctions and two emails saying that my > account was suspended. > Many auctions were canceled because they were > "Significantly misrepresented". After 3 hours of chatting > with people I finally get through to the "trust and safety" > people after a recommendation from ebay australia. > I was told that somebody (who??? - she had no way of > knowing who) decided that my? auctions were > misrepresented. She couldent tell me what was misrepresented > just that they look at the description, picture and content > when deciding was what misrepresented but she had no way of > knowing exactly what. > So I try and reason with her. "If you cant tell me what it > is about my auctions that was misrepresented how can I not > repeat the problem in the future? > Sit down before you read her response. > She said that if ebay told everybody what they look for > when they decide that auctions are misrepresented then > people would do things to get around their security checks > in future auctions so it would be a security violation to > tell me what it was about my auctions that was being > misrepresented and therfore canceled (And leading to my > suspension.) She then said that my suspension was for 7 days > so even if she did tell me it wouldent make any difference > because you cant list on ebay for 7 days again anyway. > Reasoning is getting harder. "OK, for my information. in > seven days time when I get back on ebay again can you tell > me what about my auctions was misrepresented so that I can > fix them and not violate your policy in the future so I dont > get kicked off again?". > Sorry, telling you what the problem is would be a security > violation and if people who what they looked for would do > things to circumvent their rules in the future". > This is going nowhere. I wish that I had a copy of that > phone conversation. It would have looked good on youtube. > In addition, the emails that ended the auctions said this: > ---------------------------------------------------- > eBay has restricted your ability to list new items as a > result of a policy violation. We'd be happy to lift this > restriction once you've completed a brief tutorial about > this policy. The next time you sign in to your eBay account, > click on ?Sell? and ?Sell Your Item.? You?ll then be asked > to take the tutorial. Once you've completed it, you can > begin selling again immediately. > __________________________________________ > Unfortunately, doing so is not possible so I cant even sign > on. Even their emails dont make sense. > So with a bit of luck, sometime in the next 7 days they > will tell me what was wrong with my auctions so that I can > fix it and not violate their policy - although maybe they > will not because doing so might enable me to fix the problem > out and circumvent their rules in the future. > I plan to spend the next 7 days getting some shopping cart > websites built and trying out other sites to sell stuff. > Anybody got any ideas where else to list stuff? Anybody know > somebody with ebay who will talk to me? > Apparantly it was my pearl auctions that was somehow > misrepresented but its not possible to find out why. It > sgoing to be a pain relisting 1700 auctions. It probably > wont get done - especially if I can figure out how to build > a nice shopping cart website > Cheers > DEAN > On a completely different note I need to come up with > around $2000 in my paypal account in the next week so I am > particularly into dealing from my website right now > WWW.METEORITESHOP.COM so if you see anything let me know. > Also, you people out there who owe me money, now is a good > time to pay up. > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From damoclid at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 21:52:31 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 18:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension Message-ID: <45016.27249.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry to hear about this Dean. I suggest that you write a letter to the CEO. Not an email, a letter, and send it registered mail. It may not get to the CEO, but it carries a bit more weight than an email or phone conversation with a lower CS person who know or cares very little, and is powerless to change anything. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 From cdtucson at cox.net Thu Jul 9 22:13:58 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 19:13:58 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension In-Reply-To: <995470.8749.qm@web56108.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090709221358.NFFRD.252977.imail@fed1rmwml43> Dean, Hello, I have heard of you many times and you have a great reputation so obviously it is not about you. I think it is likely issues with your links as well. I assume you are a power seller. We power sellers can call and if you call back you may get somebody smarter to speak with. The number that I use is a toll free 866-519-3229. and I am always able to get answers ( but may take more than one call) . It also may be a pearl seller competitor messing with you. As you know eBay these days is basically a glorified yard sale. Most dealers make much more from their own web sites. Good luck to you. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- dean bessey wrote: > > As if you didnt need another reason to try and diversify your business away from ebay here is what happened to me this morning. I am not making any part of this up or in any way dramatizing what happened. Neither Stephen King nor the guys on CSI could make this up. > I wake up to numerous emails from ebay this morning from ebay cancelling my auctions and two emails saying that my account was suspended. > Many auctions were canceled because they were "Significantly misrepresented". After 3 hours of chatting with people I finally get through to the "trust and safety" people after a recommendation from ebay australia. > I was told that somebody (who??? - she had no way of knowing who) decided that my auctions were misrepresented. She couldent tell me what was misrepresented just that they look at the description, picture and content when deciding was what misrepresented but she had no way of knowing exactly what. > So I try and reason with her. "If you cant tell me what it is about my auctions that was misrepresented how can I not repeat the problem in the future? > Sit down before you read her response. > She said that if ebay told everybody what they look for when they decide that auctions are misrepresented then people would do things to get around their security checks in future auctions so it would be a security violation to tell me what it was about my auctions that was being misrepresented and therfore canceled (And leading to my suspension.) She then said that my suspension was for 7 days so even if she did tell me it wouldent make any difference because you cant list on ebay for 7 days again anyway. > Reasoning is getting harder. "OK, for my information. in seven days time when I get back on ebay again can you tell me what about my auctions was misrepresented so that I can fix them and not violate your policy in the future so I dont get kicked off again?". > Sorry, telling you what the problem is would be a security violation and if people who what they looked for would do things to circumvent their rules in the future". > This is going nowhere. I wish that I had a copy of that phone conversation. It would have looked good on youtube. > In addition, the emails that ended the auctions said this: > ---------------------------------------------------- > eBay has restricted your ability to list new items as a result of a policy violation. We'd be happy to lift this restriction once you've completed a brief tutorial about this policy. The next time you sign in to your eBay account, click on ?Sell? and ?Sell Your Item.? You?ll then be asked to take the tutorial. Once you've completed it, you can begin selling again immediately. > __________________________________________ > Unfortunately, doing so is not possible so I cant even sign on. Even their emails dont make sense. > So with a bit of luck, sometime in the next 7 days they will tell me what was wrong with my auctions so that I can fix it and not violate their policy - although maybe they will not because doing so might enable me to fix the problem out and circumvent their rules in the future. > I plan to spend the next 7 days getting some shopping cart websites built and trying out other sites to sell stuff. Anybody got any ideas where else to list stuff? Anybody know somebody with ebay who will talk to me? > Apparantly it was my pearl auctions that was somehow misrepresented but its not possible to find out why. It sgoing to be a pain relisting 1700 auctions. It probably wont get done - especially if I can figure out how to build a nice shopping cart website > Cheers > DEAN > On a completely different note I need to come up with around $2000 in my paypal account in the next week so I am particularly into dealing from my website right now WWW.METEORITESHOP.COM so if you see anything let me know. > Also, you people out there who owe me money, now is a good time to pay up. > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From deanbessey at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 23:09:25 2009 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 20:09:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension Message-ID: <594900.13616.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Many thanks Carl for the poswerseller phone number. This has caused me $100 in phone bills today but at least the powerseller people reinstated my ebay account. The downside is that I now have no auctions at all listed and because ebay ended everything I have all the details lost so have to manually list everything again - 1700 auctions. Likely most wont get relisted as I plan to put more stuff on websites and diversify from ebay. I also found out why they suspended my account. Apparantly ebay has started a new rule where tahiti pearls are no longer permitted to be listed on ebay. So, rather than just end the pearl auctions (Or better yet - inform me of the new rule) they just said that I violated their rules to often (I assume more than 4 times since I had 300 tahiti pearl auctions so I violated their listing rules 300 times) and suspended my account. So anyway, thats why I was suspended and ebay has now kissed and made up so I can list everything except pearls again now. Cheers DEAN www.meteoriteshop.com --- On Thu, 7/9/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > From: cdtucson at cox.net > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension > To: "dean bessey" , "meteoritelist" > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:13 PM > Dean, > Hello, I have heard of you many times and you have a great > reputation so obviously it is not about you. I think it is > likely issues with your links as well. I assume you are a > power seller. We power sellers can call and if you call back > you may get somebody smarter to speak with. The number that > I use is a toll free 866-519-3229. and I am always able to > get answers ( but may take more than one call)? . It > also may be a pearl seller competitor messing with you. As > you know eBay these days is basically a glorified yard sale. > Most dealers make much more from their own web sites. Good > luck to you. Carl > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > > > ---- dean bessey > wrote: > > > > As if you didnt need another reason to try and > diversify your business away from ebay here is what happened > to me this morning. I am not making any part of this up or > in any way dramatizing what happened. Neither Stephen King > nor the guys on CSI could make this up. > > I wake up to numerous emails from ebay this morning > from ebay cancelling my auctions and two emails saying that > my account was suspended. > > Many auctions were canceled because they were > "Significantly misrepresented". After 3 hours of chatting > with people I finally get through to the "trust and safety" > people after a recommendation from ebay australia. > > I was told that somebody (who??? - she had no way of > knowing who) decided that my? auctions were > misrepresented. She couldent tell me what was misrepresented > just that they look at the description, picture and content > when deciding was what misrepresented but she had no way of > knowing exactly what. > > So I try and reason with her. "If you cant tell me > what it is about my auctions that was misrepresented how can > I not repeat the problem in the future? > > Sit down before you read her response. > > She said that if ebay told everybody what they look > for when they decide that auctions are misrepresented then > people would do things to get around their security checks > in future auctions so it would be a security violation to > tell me what it was about my auctions that was being > misrepresented and therfore canceled (And leading to my > suspension.) She then said that my suspension was for 7 days > so even if she did tell me it wouldent make any difference > because you cant list on ebay for 7 days again anyway. > > Reasoning is getting harder. "OK, for my information. > in seven days time when I get back on ebay again can you > tell me what about my auctions was misrepresented so that I > can fix them and not violate your policy in the future so I > dont get kicked off again?". > > Sorry, telling you what the problem is would be a > security violation and if people who what they looked for > would do things to circumvent their rules in the future". > > This is going nowhere. I wish that I had a copy of > that phone conversation. It would have looked good on > youtube. > > In addition, the emails that ended the auctions said > this: > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > eBay has restricted your ability to list new items as > a result of a policy violation. We'd be happy to lift this > restriction once you've completed a brief tutorial about > this policy. The next time you sign in to your eBay account, > click on ?Sell? and ?Sell Your Item.? You?ll then be asked > to take the tutorial. Once you've completed it, you can > begin selling again immediately. > > __________________________________________ > > Unfortunately, doing so is not possible so I cant even > sign on. Even their emails dont make sense. > > So with a bit of luck, sometime in the next 7 days > they will tell me what was wrong with my auctions so that I > can fix it and not violate their policy - although maybe > they will not because doing so might enable me to fix the > problem out and circumvent their rules in the future. > > I plan to spend the next 7 days getting some shopping > cart websites built and trying out other sites to sell > stuff. Anybody got any ideas where else to list stuff? > Anybody know somebody with ebay who will talk to me? > > Apparantly it was my pearl auctions that was somehow > misrepresented but its not possible to find out why. It > sgoing to be a pain relisting 1700 auctions. It probably > wont get done - especially if I can figure out how to build > a nice shopping cart website > > Cheers > > DEAN > > On a completely different note I need to come up with > around $2000 in my paypal account in the next week so I am > particularly into dealing from my website right now > WWW.METEORITESHOP.COM so if you see anything let me know. > > Also, you people out there who owe me money, now is a > good time to pay up. > > > > > >? ? ??? > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 23:34:58 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 20:34:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD -TRAVEL MONEY FOR PA TRIP - GREAT BUYS!!! Message-ID: <260530.61187.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Sorry for another AD before the week is up... I have reduced prices on all ebay auctions to help cover costs for my trip to serach for PA fall. I am heading out for PA in about an hour, so I may not be able to mail for a few days, please keep this in mind. Some AWESOME deals on this stuff, very nice pieces very low prices. PRICES AS LOW AS THEY CAN GO, GREAT DEALS ON SOME REALLY NICE MATERIAL!!! LINK TO MY EBAY LISTINGS http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1 Greg C. From dmerchan at rochester.rr.com Fri Jul 10 00:48:20 2009 From: dmerchan at rochester.rr.com (Don Merchant) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 23:48:20 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension References: <594900.13616.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000b01ca0119$a6fd9fd0$6401a8c0@donaldmerchant> Hi Dean and sorry to see you go through this sad case of communication malfunction and lack of professional etiquette of EBay. Your right you should of been contacted first or at the least as you said to just them removing only the pearl auctions. Let me ask you a question....did you hold EBay to paying all your listing fees or have them allow you to list for free now that you have their explanation? Thank you. Sincerely Don Merchant IMCA # 0960 ----- Original Message ----- From: "dean bessey" To: "meteoritelist" ; Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension Many thanks Carl for the poswerseller phone number. This has caused me $100 in phone bills today but at least the powerseller people reinstated my ebay account. The downside is that I now have no auctions at all listed and because ebay ended everything I have all the details lost so have to manually list everything again - 1700 auctions. Likely most wont get relisted as I plan to put more stuff on websites and diversify from ebay. I also found out why they suspended my account. Apparantly ebay has started a new rule where tahiti pearls are no longer permitted to be listed on ebay. So, rather than just end the pearl auctions (Or better yet - inform me of the new rule) they just said that I violated their rules to often (I assume more than 4 times since I had 300 tahiti pearl auctions so I violated their listing rules 300 times) and suspended my account. So anyway, thats why I was suspended and ebay has now kissed and made up so I can list everything except pearls again now. Cheers DEAN www.meteoriteshop.com --- On Thu, 7/9/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > From: cdtucson at cox.net > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension > To: "dean bessey" , "meteoritelist" > > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:13 PM > Dean, > Hello, I have heard of you many times and you have a great > reputation so obviously it is not about you. I think it is > likely issues with your links as well. I assume you are a > power seller. We power sellers can call and if you call back > you may get somebody smarter to speak with. The number that > I use is a toll free 866-519-3229. and I am always able to > get answers ( but may take more than one call) . It > also may be a pearl seller competitor messing with you. As > you know eBay these days is basically a glorified yard sale. > Most dealers make much more from their own web sites. Good > luck to you. Carl > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > > > ---- dean bessey > wrote: > > > > As if you didnt need another reason to try and > diversify your business away from ebay here is what happened > to me this morning. I am not making any part of this up or > in any way dramatizing what happened. Neither Stephen King > nor the guys on CSI could make this up. > > I wake up to numerous emails from ebay this morning > from ebay cancelling my auctions and two emails saying that > my account was suspended. > > Many auctions were canceled because they were > "Significantly misrepresented". After 3 hours of chatting > with people I finally get through to the "trust and safety" > people after a recommendation from ebay australia. > > I was told that somebody (who??? - she had no way of > knowing who) decided that my auctions were > misrepresented. She couldent tell me what was misrepresented > just that they look at the description, picture and content > when deciding was what misrepresented but she had no way of > knowing exactly what. > > So I try and reason with her. "If you cant tell me > what it is about my auctions that was misrepresented how can > I not repeat the problem in the future? > > Sit down before you read her response. > > She said that if ebay told everybody what they look > for when they decide that auctions are misrepresented then > people would do things to get around their security checks > in future auctions so it would be a security violation to > tell me what it was about my auctions that was being > misrepresented and therfore canceled (And leading to my > suspension.) She then said that my suspension was for 7 days > so even if she did tell me it wouldent make any difference > because you cant list on ebay for 7 days again anyway. > > Reasoning is getting harder. "OK, for my information. > in seven days time when I get back on ebay again can you > tell me what about my auctions was misrepresented so that I > can fix them and not violate your policy in the future so I > dont get kicked off again?". > > Sorry, telling you what the problem is would be a > security violation and if people who what they looked for > would do things to circumvent their rules in the future". > > This is going nowhere. I wish that I had a copy of > that phone conversation. It would have looked good on > youtube. > > In addition, the emails that ended the auctions said > this: > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > eBay has restricted your ability to list new items as > a result of a policy violation. We'd be happy to lift this > restriction once you've completed a brief tutorial about > this policy. The next time you sign in to your eBay account, > click on ?Sell? and ?Sell Your Item.? You?ll then be asked > to take the tutorial. Once you've completed it, you can > begin selling again immediately. > > __________________________________________ > > Unfortunately, doing so is not possible so I cant even > sign on. Even their emails dont make sense. > > So with a bit of luck, sometime in the next 7 days > they will tell me what was wrong with my auctions so that I > can fix it and not violate their policy - although maybe > they will not because doing so might enable me to fix the > problem out and circumvent their rules in the future. > > I plan to spend the next 7 days getting some shopping > cart websites built and trying out other sites to sell > stuff. Anybody got any ideas where else to list stuff? > Anybody know somebody with ebay who will talk to me? > > Apparantly it was my pearl auctions that was somehow > misrepresented but its not possible to find out why. It > sgoing to be a pain relisting 1700 auctions. It probably > wont get done - especially if I can figure out how to build > a nice shopping cart website > > Cheers > > DEAN > > On a completely different note I need to come up with > around $2000 in my paypal account in the next week so I am > particularly into dealing from my website right now > WWW.METEORITESHOP.COM so if you see anything let me know. > > Also, you people out there who owe me money, now is a > good time to pay up. > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Fri Jul 10 05:28:22 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 05:28:22 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 10, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_10_2009.html __________________________ **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 10 06:00:40 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:00:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteoroid Energy Calculations Message-ID: <586188.40215.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I just did for some "for funzies" calculations about the kinetic energy a meteoroid has during certain phases of flight.-- WOw! Sorry for our metric friends I calculated results in foot pounds and US Tons. A 5 kg stone passing into darkflight which is going around 1788.889m/s --a little over a mile per second but faster than a standard military 30.06 rifle bullet:5,900,732.17 foot-pounds --almost 6 million! Same stone when as it drops below supersonic speeds(341.97m/s): 215,632.7 foot-pounds About 108 foot tons!! At terminal velocity of 200mph or 89.44m/s that is 14,750.346 ft/lb or 7.5 foot-tons of compression at impact as it is converted into a meteorite. For 1kg stone:Darkflight:1,180,146.43 Mach:43,126.54 Impact:2,950.07 ft/lb For a .1 kg (100 gram) DF:118,014.64 Mach:4,312.65 Impact:295.01 (somewhere between a bullet and a record fast pitch baseball) 30kg at the ground:88,502.08--44 tons! THAT has to produce a seismic signature!!! This is also why I feel the true main reason Carancus excavated a crater, was that at the high ground altitude the booger was large anyway and had not bled off all the cosmic velocity and was probably still traveling at supersonic speeds. Say Carancus was only 300kg it would have hit the ground delivering 12,937,963 foot pounds of force if traveling anywhere near a supersonic velocity. Calculate yourself at They've a great many online calculator functions worth book marking! Elton From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 08:51:35 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 05:51:35 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] My ebay suspension. Message-ID: Hi Dean and All, Why not try amazon.com? You might list a few meteorites under Industrial & Scientific and see what happens.It might take a while to build a meteorite base but if you want to diversify, why not? I've sold a few things there (not meteorites) and it takes a bit of getting used to (in fact, at first it's downright cumbersome). It's a totally different way to sell things from ebay.It's not auction based but more like Buy-It-Now. As of now, I see only meteorite posters for sale there so you may have the entire playing field all to yourself. Good luck! Carl If this works out, just remember who you got this idea from! If this DOESN'T work, blame el nino. _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jul 10 09:06:15 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:06:15 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Fact Sheet - Possible Media Solution? Message-ID: Hello List, I was greeted this morning with a front page story in the Baltimore Sun. While it could have been worse, it made me realize I need to do something to help writers focus on the facts and the real story and not to slide over and just use the more sensational answers or comments given in an interview. Also, some reports do actually attempt to do more research on their own before writing, and sometimes they interview amateurs that are even better at saying not-so-smart things like those of us with experience are also so good at doing. As Darryl mentioned the other day, reporters tend to resist writing from a Press Release and usually will work to manufacture their own story from the ground up based on what they uncover in their interviews. So maybe a solution might be a "Fact Sheet" I can have preprinted to give to the reporters at each interview. Of course, if I am not asked a certain question by a reporter, there is a greater chance I won't offer that fact in my interview. Or if I do, it can be out of the context of the interview and the reporter might not understand why what I said was important. Time is often a restraint, both in the interview and in the writing to meet a deadline, so it isn't always the reporters fault that they don't get around to asking the questions that would paint a clearer picture. Maybe a Fact Sheet could be in a F.A.Q. fashion? Or just stated as Facts, billet style? So, I would like some help from you guys. I would like some suggestions as to what should be included in a fact sheet, so that when handed to the reporter, they can refer to it during and/or after the interview as they might need. For starters, I can list my name and contact information, that would be good. (Nothing worse than one's name being spelled wrong in the paper.) I can list my correct age (which is 43 not 42 as erroneously stated in today's story). Which does make you pause, if a reporter can't get someone's age correct, is it any wonder that other aspects of the story might get skewed a little (or a lot) one way or another. However, in the case of Robert Haag in the Astronomy story a few years back, they listed him as 40 years old and not 50 years old. A "typo" I am sure! ;-) (Or as someone hinted, maybe a little slice of Zagami under the table might have helped that typo to not be spotted in time!) How about "Why are meteorites are valuable to science?" Q, with an appropriate and pithy answer. After all, if it wasn't for the science, we really wouldn't have much in the way of higher demand for many of our meteorites. Of course, there is a collectors market. And while the words "treasure" and "hunter" together can give a negative connotation, they can give an adventurous one as well. And we all have to admit, while it is not all just for the money, that does play at least a part in why those of us in the field do what they do. How can the fact that we are also hunting for the source of knowledge, not just cash be stated? I suppose I could go through all the media stories I have seen lately and pull out the errors and try to find out why the reporter might have got the reporting of it wrong. Then find a way to stress, in the Fact Sheet, what is the correct take should be on it. For example, after talking about how most meteorites are "common" and don't offer all that much valuable new information, others do. I went on that some are far more desirous to researchers than others, and to collectors as well. In that context I mentioned that "meteorites can be worth from 5 cents a gram up to over $1,000 dollars a gram." There seemed to be some negative reaction from the York newspaper's story here on the M-List where that range was mentioned. Well, now the Baltimore reporter (who was in the same interview as the York reporter) decided to drop the range I had given and just somehow averaged it all out to: "hundreds of dollars per gram" instead. Probably shorter and easier that way for him. I am sure his editor appreciated it being shorter, in fact, maybe it was his editor that shortened it for him. Of course, factually both reporters are not incorrect as to the values, and doing a search on any dealer website and on ebay shows both of those statements to be factually correct. However, maybe I can state that a fact on my Fact Sheet that majority of all meteorites are worth from $0.20 to $2 per gram. And that certain factors determine why they might be worth more or less than that range. Any other suggestions? Oh, I would imagine Ruben might suggest that I add that "Fossils are not found in meteorites." Any others? Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323031x1201367232/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 09:22:43 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 06:22:43 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fact Sheet - Possible Media Solution? Message-ID: Hey Steve, You might want to put this first on your fact sheet: "I am not from Chicago." Carl _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jul 10 09:27:31 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:27:31 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Warning to armchair fireball chasers Message-ID: Hey All, I wanted to add something here. As noted in the Baltimore Sun story today, Mike Hankey was quoted that a lot of people were contacting him by phone about the photo he captured of the fireball. I spent a couple hours with Mike at his house and at his scope, and he is really a great guy. Excited that his hobby of just 6 months produced such a lucky outcome, he was on one hand glad that people appreciate his results. On the other hand, he was starting to notice a pattern when talking with people, that while they wanted to extract information from him, they all to often were trying to hint that he shouldn't share this same information with others that might ask later. At least one had boldly asked him not to share it with anyone else. He told me that there was an offer of "official recognition" made if a meteorite turned up, due to his cooperation with them AND if he didn't cooperate with others. He asked me in an email, if maybe the meteorite might be able to be named after him if it was found. Now, I am not sure if such a "bribe" was actually offered to him, or if his ego was maybe puffed up a bit by being made to think that his contribution to some of us really made him important enough to warrant the rock being named after him? Maybe he came up with that on his own, or maybe the idea was planted with him. My caution to those of you working the phones, it is NOT just those of us in the field that say and do things that affect the stories that go to print. Mike was impacted by what he was getting from emails and phone calls from others enough to comment to me, and to comment to the reporter, who did end up writing about it. Sometimes it is easy for our guard to be let down, that if we are not talking directly to a reporter, that what we are saying will just stay between us and the person we are talking to. We saw today that this is not always the case. We saw in Buzzard Coulee, West and Georgia how people can offer cash rewards to buy rocks from their home, not from the field, and how that can also affect the stories in the papers. I am not being overly critical here, I just wanted people to know that many things influence a story that goes to print, not just what is said in interviews by people on the ground. Steve Arnold of Meteorite Men **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323031x1201367232/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) From nightsky55 at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 09:29:37 2009 From: nightsky55 at gmail.com (Bob King) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:29:37 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fact Sheet - Possible Media Solution? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99c1e91a0907100629p5aae6891vce379c830af00e32@mail.gmail.com> Hi Steve, Since I work at a newspaper as a photographer and understand your frustration, I think a fact sheet is a great idea. Reporters would really appreciate an FAQ-style, one sheet resource. Here are my suggestions on what to include: * Your name and phone number plus one or two other sources to reach and their numbers * Definition of meteor, meteorite, meteoroid, asteroid * Average speed of meteor/meteorite as it enters our atmosphere and then strikes the ground * Average price of the most common type of meteorite (ordinary chondrites) found in a typical fall plus the range as you mentioned * Common misperceptions about meteorites: they're hot, they come down flaming, they're all worth a million dollars. * Where meteorites come from and why they're important to science * Where to send a suspected meteorite to be tested I hope this helps. Bob On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 8:06 AM, wrote: > Hello List, > > I was greeted this morning ?with a front page story in the Baltimore Sun. > While it could have been ?worse, it made me realize I need to do something > to help writers focus on the ?facts and the real story and not to slide over > and just use the more sensational ?answers or comments given in an > interview. > > Also, some reports do ?actually attempt to do more research on their own > before writing, and sometimes ?they interview amateurs that are even better at > saying not-so-smart things like ?those of us with experience are also so > good at doing. > > As Darryl ?mentioned the other day, reporters tend to resist writing from a > Press Release ?and usually will work to manufacture their own story from > the ground up based on ?what they uncover in their interviews. > > So maybe a solution might ?be a "Fact Sheet" I can have preprinted to give > to the reporters at each ?interview. > > Of course, if I am not asked a certain question by a ?reporter, there is a > greater chance I won't offer that fact in my ?interview. ?Or if I do, it can > be out of the context of the interview and ?the reporter might not > understand why what I said was important. > > Time is ?often a restraint, both in the interview and in the writing to > meet a deadline, ?so it isn't always the reporters fault that they don't get > around to asking the ?questions that would paint a clearer picture. > > Maybe a Fact Sheet could be ?in a F.A.Q. fashion? ?Or just stated as Facts, > billet style? > > So, I ?would like some help from you guys. > > I would like some suggestions as to ?what should be included in a fact > sheet, so that when handed to the reporter, ?they can refer to it during and/or > after the interview as they might ?need. > > For starters, I can list my name and contact information, that ?would be > good. (Nothing worse than one's name being spelled wrong in the ?paper.) > > I can list my correct age (which is 43 not 42 as erroneously ?stated in > today's story). ?Which does make you pause, if a reporter can't ?get someone's > age correct, is it any wonder that other aspects of the story ?might get > skewed a little (or a lot) one way or another. ?However, in the ?case of Robert > Haag in the Astronomy story a few years back, they listed him as ?40 years > old and not 50 years old. ?A "typo" I am sure! ;-) ?(Or as ?someone hinted, > maybe a little slice of Zagami under the table might have helped ?that typo > to not be spotted in time!) > > How about "Why are meteorites are ?valuable to science?" Q, with an > appropriate and pithy answer. ?After all, ?if it wasn't for the science, we really > wouldn't have much in the way of higher ?demand for many of our meteorites. > > Of course, there is a collectors ?market. ?And while the words "treasure" > and "hunter" together can give a ?negative connotation, they can give an > adventurous one as well. ?And we all ?have to admit, while it is not all just > for the money, that does play at least a ?part in why those of us in the field > do what they do. ?How can the fact ?that we are also hunting for the source > of knowledge, not just cash be ?stated? > > I suppose I could go through all the media stories I have seen ?lately and > pull out the errors and try to find out why the reporter might have ?got the > reporting of it wrong. ?Then find a way to stress, in the Fact ?Sheet, what > is the correct take should be on it. > > For example, after ?talking about how most meteorites are "common" and > don't offer all that much ?valuable new information, others do. ?I went on that > some are far more ?desirous to researchers than others, and to collectors as > well. In that context ?I mentioned that "meteorites can be worth from 5 > cents a gram up to over $1,000 ?dollars a gram." > > There seemed to be some negative reaction from the York ?newspaper's story > here on the M-List where that range was mentioned. ?Well, ?now the Baltimore > reporter (who was in the same interview as the York reporter) ?decided to > drop the range I had given and just somehow averaged it all out to: > "hundreds of dollars per gram" instead. ?Probably shorter and easier that ?way for > him. ?I am sure his editor appreciated it being shorter, in fact, ?maybe it > was his editor that shortened it for him. > > Of course, factually ?both reporters are not incorrect as to the values, > and doing a search on any ?dealer website and on ebay shows both of those > statements to be factually ?correct. ?However, maybe I can state that a fact on > my Fact Sheet that ?majority of all meteorites are worth from $0.20 to $2 > per gram. ?And that ?certain factors determine why they might be worth more or > less than that ?range. > > Any other suggestions? > > Oh, I would imagine Ruben might ?suggest that I add that "Fossils are not > found in meteorites." > > Any ?others? > > Steve Arnold > of "Meteorite Men" > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323031x1201367232/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JulystepsfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jul 10 09:30:56 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:30:56 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Fact Sheet - Possible Media Solution? Message-ID: In a message dated 7/10/2009 8:23:06 A.M. Central Daylight Time, carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com writes: Hey Steve, You might want to put this first on your fact sheet: "I am not from Chicago." **** Carl LOL. You know Carl...while I assume you stated that as a joke, that probably is a great idea, to at least put on the Fact Sheet somewhere. It would only take once, for a reporter to make that mix up, and assign a quote to me that came from that other guy, and I would really regret it forever. Thanks Carl. That is definitely going on my fact sheet. Steve **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323031x1201367232/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jul 10 09:35:51 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:35:51 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Fact Sheet - Possible Media Solution? Message-ID: In a message dated 7/10/2009 8:32:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time, deannariner at gmail.com writes: Hi Steve, How about a copy of some facts and maybe misconceptions (eg. they are not radioactive) with some nice photos of other fresh falls that might be published as a 'what to be on the lookout for.' Best, Whitney ********* Whitney, Thanks. Good ideas. In the past we have provided high res photos at our website(s) for public domain use. Providing that online, and then providing a URL to those photos in the Fact Sheet would be very useful. Thanks, Steve **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323031x1201367232/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 09:42:00 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 06:42:00 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] =?windows-1256?q?Fact_Sheet_-_Possible_Media_Sol?= =?windows-1256?q?ution=3F=FE?= Message-ID: Hello All, I wanted to read what the Baltimore Sun had to say this morning. I found this: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/science/bal-md.meteor10jul10,0,6086909.story I thought it was a pretty cool article. Carl _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 From John at Cabassi.net Fri Jul 10 10:18:43 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 07:18:43 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fact Sheet - Possible Media Solution? In-Reply-To: <99c1e91a0907100629p5aae6891vce379c830af00e32@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001ca0169$554af4d0$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2> G'Day List A lot of good suggestions, but you might want to look at taking some lessons from the politicians, they are really good at balking at questions =) Cheers John -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Bob King Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 6:30 AM To: MeteorHntr at aol.com; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fact Sheet - Possible Media Solution? Hi Steve, Since I work at a newspaper as a photographer and understand your frustration, I think a fact sheet is a great idea. Reporters would really appreciate an FAQ-style, one sheet resource. Here are my suggestions on what to include: * Your name and phone number plus one or two other sources to reach and their numbers * Definition of meteor, meteorite, meteoroid, asteroid * Average speed of meteor/meteorite as it enters our atmosphere and then strikes the ground * Average price of the most common type of meteorite (ordinary chondrites) found in a typical fall plus the range as you mentioned * Common misperceptions about meteorites: they're hot, they come down flaming, they're all worth a million dollars. * Where meteorites come from and why they're important to science * Where to send a suspected meteorite to be tested I hope this helps. Bob On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 8:06 AM, wrote: > Hello List, > > I was greeted this morning ?with a front page story in the Baltimore > Sun. While it could have been ?worse, it made me realize I need to do > something to help writers focus on the ?facts and the real story and > not to slide over and just use the more sensational ?answers or > comments given in an interview. > > Also, some reports do ?actually attempt to do more research on their > own before writing, and sometimes ?they interview amateurs that are > even better at saying not-so-smart things like ?those of us with > experience are also so good at doing. > > As Darryl ?mentioned the other day, reporters tend to resist writing > from a Press Release ?and usually will work to manufacture their own > story from the ground up based on ?what they uncover in their > interviews. > > So maybe a solution might ?be a "Fact Sheet" I can have preprinted to > give to the reporters at each ?interview. > > Of course, if I am not asked a certain question by a ?reporter, there > is a greater chance I won't offer that fact in my ?interview. ?Or if I > do, it can be out of the context of the interview and ?the reporter > might not understand why what I said was important. > > Time is ?often a restraint, both in the interview and in the writing > to meet a deadline, ?so it isn't always the reporters fault that they > don't get around to asking the ?questions that would paint a clearer > picture. > > Maybe a Fact Sheet could be ?in a F.A.Q. fashion? ?Or just stated as > Facts, billet style? > > So, I ?would like some help from you guys. > > I would like some suggestions as to ?what should be included in a fact > sheet, so that when handed to the reporter, ?they can refer to it > during and/or after the interview as they might ?need. > > For starters, I can list my name and contact information, that ?would > be good. (Nothing worse than one's name being spelled wrong in the ? > paper.) > > I can list my correct age (which is 43 not 42 as erroneously ?stated > in today's story). ?Which does make you pause, if a reporter can't ? > get someone's age correct, is it any wonder that other aspects of the > story ?might get skewed a little (or a lot) one way or another. ? > However, in the ?case of Robert Haag in the Astronomy story a few > years back, they listed him as ?40 years old and not 50 years old. ?A > "typo" I am sure! ;-) ?(Or as ?someone hinted, maybe a little slice of > Zagami under the table might have helped ?that typo to not be spotted > in time!) > > How about "Why are meteorites are ?valuable to science?" Q, with an > appropriate and pithy answer. ?After all, ?if it wasn't for the > science, we really wouldn't have much in the way of higher ?demand for > many of our meteorites. > > Of course, there is a collectors ?market. ?And while the words > "treasure" and "hunter" together can give a ?negative connotation, > they can give an adventurous one as well. ?And we all ?have to admit, > while it is not all just for the money, that does play at least a ? > part in why those of us in the field do what they do. ?How can the > fact ?that we are also hunting for the source of knowledge, not just > cash be ?stated? > > I suppose I could go through all the media stories I have seen ?lately > and pull out the errors and try to find out why the reporter might > have ?got the reporting of it wrong. ?Then find a way to stress, in > the Fact ?Sheet, what is the correct take should be on it. > > For example, after ?talking about how most meteorites are "common" and > don't offer all that much ?valuable new information, others do. ?I > went on that some are far more ?desirous to researchers than others, > and to collectors as well. In that context ?I mentioned that > "meteorites can be worth from 5 cents a gram up to over $1,000 ? > dollars a gram." > > There seemed to be some negative reaction from the York ?newspaper's > story here on the M-List where that range was mentioned. ?Well, ?now > the Baltimore reporter (who was in the same interview as the York > reporter) ?decided to drop the range I had given and just somehow > averaged it all out to: "hundreds of dollars per gram" instead. ? > Probably shorter and easier that ?way for him. ?I am sure his editor > appreciated it being shorter, in fact, ?maybe it was his editor that > shortened it for him. > > Of course, factually ?both reporters are not incorrect as to the > values, and doing a search on any ?dealer website and on ebay shows > both of those statements to be factually ?correct. ?However, maybe I > can state that a fact on my Fact Sheet that ?majority of all > meteorites are worth from $0.20 to $2 per gram. ?And that ?certain > factors determine why they might be worth more or less than that ? > range. > > Any other suggestions? > > Oh, I would imagine Ruben might ?suggest that I add that "Fossils are > not found in meteorites." > > Any ?others? > > Steve Arnold > of "Meteorite Men" > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323031x1201367232/aol?red > ir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&b cd= > JulystepsfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jul 10 11:52:33 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:52:33 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fact Sheet - Possible Media Solution? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3qoe55p8nj52pln0m6a4cng3k0o9v057fa@4ax.com> On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:06:15 EDT, you wrote: >I would like some suggestions as to what should be included in a fact >sheet, so that when handed to the reporter, they can refer to it during and/or >after the interview as they might need. > >For starters, I can list my name and contact information, that would be >good. (Nothing worse than one's name being spelled wrong in the paper.) > I was thinking about that yesterday (about building a boilerplate FAQ, not one about you specificly) after that last article. Stay tuned to this bat time, this bat channel. From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jul 10 11:59:12 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:59:12 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Warning to armchair fireball chasers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:27:31 EDT, you wrote: >He asked me in an email, if maybe the meteorite might be >able to be named after him if it was found. Now, I am not sure if such a >"bribe" was actually offered to him, or if his ego was maybe puffed up a >bit by being made to think that his contribution to some of us really made >him important enough to warrant the rock being named after him? Probably simple ignorance of how meteorites are named. You discover a comet, it is named after you. You discover an asteroid or plutazoid, you get to name it (within guidelines). From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jul 10 13:13:27 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:13:27 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fact Sheet - Possible Media Solution? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090710131327.QK89U.258289.imail@fed1rmwml36> Steve, Your fact sheet is an excellent idea. It brings to mind a couple of publications from ASU called "have you seen a meteorite: and another by U of A's David Kring called "Meteorites and their properties"(1998). Both are very small brochures that give all of the basic facts and even journalists could read it within a few minutes. I have a copy of each if you'd like to see them. I think you are correct in everything you do. After all no matter what you say can be disputed. 5 cents to over $1000. per gram is a good range but certainly misleading. Unless you add a bunch more words and make your point even longer. For example. I doubt that you will ever buy a fall for 5 cents and I believe the record price ever paid for any meteorite was NWA 011. It's initial offering was from $119,000. to $58,000. per gram back in 2003 before pairings were found.. But if you disclose this info you may well get robbed while out in the field. And as for Rubens fossils? We are looking for meteorites with fossils so why not just say it? So, if you find a rock covered with fusion crust and it has fossils I will be happy to take it off your hands. Haha. Although unless it hits someone on the head it will likely be discarded unless we do inform the public of this fact that they may be out there. Like Elton always says " don't ignore the Science". Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > Hello List, > > I was greeted this morning with a front page story in the Baltimore Sun. > While it could have been worse, it made me realize I need to do something > to help writers focus on the facts and the real story and not to slide over > and just use the more sensational answers or comments given in an > interview. > > Also, some reports do actually attempt to do more research on their own > before writing, and sometimes they interview amateurs that are even better at > saying not-so-smart things like those of us with experience are also so > good at doing. > > As Darryl mentioned the other day, reporters tend to resist writing from a > Press Release and usually will work to manufacture their own story from > the ground up based on what they uncover in their interviews. > > So maybe a solution might be a "Fact Sheet" I can have preprinted to give > to the reporters at each interview. > > Of course, if I am not asked a certain question by a reporter, there is a > greater chance I won't offer that fact in my interview. Or if I do, it can > be out of the context of the interview and the reporter might not > understand why what I said was important. > > Time is often a restraint, both in the interview and in the writing to > meet a deadline, so it isn't always the reporters fault that they don't get > around to asking the questions that would paint a clearer picture. > > Maybe a Fact Sheet could be in a F.A.Q. fashion? Or just stated as Facts, > billet style? > > So, I would like some help from you guys. > > I would like some suggestions as to what should be included in a fact > sheet, so that when handed to the reporter, they can refer to it during and/or > after the interview as they might need. > > For starters, I can list my name and contact information, that would be > good. (Nothing worse than one's name being spelled wrong in the paper.) > > I can list my correct age (which is 43 not 42 as erroneously stated in > today's story). Which does make you pause, if a reporter can't get someone's > age correct, is it any wonder that other aspects of the story might get > skewed a little (or a lot) one way or another. However, in the case of Robert > Haag in the Astronomy story a few years back, they listed him as 40 years > old and not 50 years old. A "typo" I am sure! ;-) (Or as someone hinted, > maybe a little slice of Zagami under the table might have helped that typo > to not be spotted in time!) > > How about "Why are meteorites are valuable to science?" Q, with an > appropriate and pithy answer. After all, if it wasn't for the science, we really > wouldn't have much in the way of higher demand for many of our meteorites. > > Of course, there is a collectors market. And while the words "treasure" > and "hunter" together can give a negative connotation, they can give an > adventurous one as well. And we all have to admit, while it is not all just > for the money, that does play at least a part in why those of us in the field > do what they do. How can the fact that we are also hunting for the source > of knowledge, not just cash be stated? > > I suppose I could go through all the media stories I have seen lately and > pull out the errors and try to find out why the reporter might have got the > reporting of it wrong. Then find a way to stress, in the Fact Sheet, what > is the correct take should be on it. > > For example, after talking about how most meteorites are "common" and > don't offer all that much valuable new information, others do. I went on that > some are far more desirous to researchers than others, and to collectors as > well. In that context I mentioned that "meteorites can be worth from 5 > cents a gram up to over $1,000 dollars a gram." > > There seemed to be some negative reaction from the York newspaper's story > here on the M-List where that range was mentioned. Well, now the Baltimore > reporter (who was in the same interview as the York reporter) decided to > drop the range I had given and just somehow averaged it all out to: > "hundreds of dollars per gram" instead. Probably shorter and easier that way for > him. I am sure his editor appreciated it being shorter, in fact, maybe it > was his editor that shortened it for him. > > Of course, factually both reporters are not incorrect as to the values, > and doing a search on any dealer website and on ebay shows both of those > statements to be factually correct. However, maybe I can state that a fact on > my Fact Sheet that majority of all meteorites are worth from $0.20 to $2 > per gram. And that certain factors determine why they might be worth more or > less than that range. > > Any other suggestions? > > Oh, I would imagine Ruben might suggest that I add that "Fossils are not > found in meteorites." > > Any others? > > Steve Arnold > of "Meteorite Men" > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323031x1201367232/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JulystepsfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 10 15:43:47 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 12:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype Message-ID: <335926.36050.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> This is out of control, endless media hype by those seeking nothing but fame, and nothing about what the public should be looking for. After days of walking, I am sitting here in Tucson, playing with two week old meteorites, and resting my blister-covered feet and catching up on the last few days of emails. I am sickened by these stories, the backstabbing already in full swing out east. We don't want and by holding our cards to our chest, we don't have that problem out here. I hope everyone can see that now. Offers in papers about "paying more, and don't sell to greedy dealers on the ground, just call me" etc. Now you know why we don't want any help with our fall. We are working together, and finding stones. I speak for myself here, so any crap needs come to me, as my teammates and friends are in the field right now, but work must be done since I am at home and I am taking today to recuperate. This endless media blitz over "Meteorite-Men" is getting old. Every email, every eBay auction, every mention of some people to throw that quip in. How long must we endure this hype? Come on, just get out there and work, your fame is worth about $1.00 in the field. Walking, blisters, sunburns, that will find meteorites, not talking about your show. In NONE of those articles is there a peep that locals in that area need to get out and walk the streets, look for black burned stones, check the lawn, parking lots, parks..... Why not? Tell people what to do, not the prices per gram, it has to be found to be sold. If this PA stone is found, it won't be with the pictures but by a person mowing their lawn, or driving down the road. Focus on the hunt, use the locals and this can be found, keep hyping yourselves and it is just publicity, and the meteorite will be lost. Sad. Michael Farmer From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 16:34:05 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:34:05 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype In-Reply-To: <335926.36050.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <335926.36050.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Mike and List, I agree on a couple of points here and disagree on a couple. First, I don't think the Meteorite Men "hype" is bad for meteorites - it raises awareness that meteorites exist. It never ceases to amaze me how many seemingly-educated people have no clue what a meteorite is. I mean, really, how can people not have the faintest idea what a meteorite is? Then, when you explain the "shooting star" principle, it dawns on them and you can see the recognition in their eyes - they have no idea what the word *meteorite* means. It's staggering. I'm talking grown adults with college educations and standing in the community - with an utter lack of basic science. The Meteorite Men show raises awareness and gets people of all ages curious about meteorites - it might be responsible for a few of your recent eBay sales. (perhaps) I've had people email me and ask me about the show and I have nothing to do with it - they just assume that as a collector and small-time dealer that I know about the show. That's not a bad thing. Mike, do you honestly mean that if a television network offered you a show about meteorites, that you would view that as a bad thing? I've seen some veiled and not-so-veiled sour grapes directed at Geoff and Steve for that show, and I think a part of it is professional envy and rivalry. Whatever differences some people might think they have with the Meteorite Men, I can honestly say that I have never heard a bad word about Geoff or Steve from anyone in the collector community. The only bad things I have heard on occasion come from other dealers or hunters who are competing with them for finds, sales and attention. As an aspiring armchair hunter with dreams of one day doing what Mike and the other hunters do, I understand there is good press and bad press. I think all can agree that sensational stories about million dollar meteorites and hoards of pushy hunters trampling over private property is not good for the field of meteoritics or the hobby of collecting meteorites. I think it's a very good idea to make some kind of FAQ sheet for the public and the press - to dispel common myths and educate the public on what a freshly fallen meteorite looks like (and a weathered one for that matter). Meteorites are becoming trendy - there are more and more documentaries on the various cable networks that deal with meteorites, asteroids, impacts, and related subjects. Seeing stories in the media about meteorites is going to become a more common occurrence - and the whole 2012 and Apophis events are going to fuel that further. I think as collectors, dealers, hunters, and scientists, we need to be proactive and make sure we get correct information out there. If the sensationalists are going to be prolific, then we need to be more prolific. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG On 7/10/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > > This is out of control, endless media hype by those seeking nothing but > fame, and nothing about what the public should be looking for. > After days of walking, I am sitting here in Tucson, playing with two week > old meteorites, and resting my blister-covered feet and catching up on the > last few days of emails. > I am sickened by these stories, the backstabbing already in full swing out > east. We don't want and by holding our cards to our chest, we don't have > that problem out here. I hope everyone can see that now. Offers in papers > about "paying more, and don't sell to greedy dealers on the ground, just > call me" etc. Now you know why we don't want any help with our fall. We are > working together, and finding stones. > > I speak for myself here, so any crap needs come to me, as my teammates and > friends are in the field right now, but work must be done since I am at home > and I am taking today to recuperate. > > This endless media blitz over "Meteorite-Men" is getting old. Every email, > every eBay auction, every mention of some people to throw that quip in. How > long must we endure this hype? Come on, just get out there and work, your > fame is worth about $1.00 in the field. Walking, blisters, sunburns, that > will find meteorites, not talking about your show. > In NONE of those articles is there a peep that locals in that area need to > get out and walk the streets, look for black burned stones, check the lawn, > parking lots, parks..... Why not? Tell people what to do, not the prices per > gram, it has to be found to be sold. > If this PA stone is found, it won't be with the pictures but by a person > mowing their lawn, or driving down the road. Focus on the hunt, use the > locals and this can be found, keep hyping yourselves and it is just > publicity, and the meteorite will be lost. > Sad. > Michael Farmer > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From epgrondine at yahoo.com Fri Jul 10 16:38:43 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] E-bay again Message-ID: <461563.77075.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all - If not now, at some point in the near future the technology should become sufficiently easy that the IMCA could set up a meteorite auction site. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jul 10 16:46:26 2009 From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:46:26 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype In-Reply-To: <335926.36050.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Okay, now let me see if I've got this straight... You're sitting there rubbing your hands in glee and cackling over your own private pile of freshly-fallen stones, saying that the key to recovering as many meteorites as possible is to get the public involved... I can't agree more! How 'bout some coordinates? Might not suck to have a small army out there before the rains come. ;-) Meanwhile I'll start holding my breath, because blue is my favorite color. Asplosion in 3...2...1.... Cheers, MDF On 7/10/09 12:43 PM, "Michael Farmer" wrote: > > > This is out of control, endless media hype by those seeking nothing but fame, > and nothing about what the public should be looking for. > After days of walking, I am sitting here in Tucson, playing with two week old > meteorites, and resting my blister-covered feet and catching up on the last > few days of emails. > I am sickened by these stories, the backstabbing already in full swing out > east. We don't want and by holding our cards to our chest, we don't have that > problem out here. I hope everyone can see that now. Offers in papers about > "paying more, and don't sell to greedy dealers on the ground, just call me" > etc. Now you know why we don't want any help with our fall. We are working > together, and finding stones. > > I speak for myself here, so any crap needs come to me, as my teammates and > friends are in the field right now, but work must be done since I am at home > and I am taking today to recuperate. > > This endless media blitz over "Meteorite-Men" is getting old. Every email, > every eBay auction, every mention of some people to throw that quip in. How > long must we endure this hype? Come on, just get out there and work, your fame > is worth about $1.00 in the field. Walking, blisters, sunburns, that will find > meteorites, not talking about your show. > In NONE of those articles is there a peep that locals in that area need to get > out and walk the streets, look for black burned stones, check the lawn, > parking lots, parks..... Why not? Tell people what to do, not the prices per > gram, it has to be found to be sold. > If this PA stone is found, it won't be with the pictures but by a person > mowing their lawn, or driving down the road. Focus on the hunt, use the locals > and this can be found, keep hyping yourselves and it is just publicity, and > the meteorite will be lost. > Sad. > Michael Farmer > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From geoking at notkin.net Fri Jul 10 17:00:52 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:00:52 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype Message-ID: Dear Mike: So, when other people are featured in the media while searching for meteorites you start tub thumping about it, but it's fine for Mike Farmer to use the media when it is convenient for him? During the West, Texas hunt you and your team were in the papers repeatedly, front page even. I didn't hear any complaints then. The "Waco Tribune" did a big piece in which you talked about how you bought a West (Ash Creek) stone during a secret meeting in a local gas station for "more than $10.000" in cash. Most of that article focused precisely on how much the West meteorites were worth: http://www.wacotrib.com/news/content/news/stories/2009/03/17/03172009wacmeteor.html I am sure I don't have to remind you that the newspaper story caused plenty of local problems. Some landowners right away figured they might have a $10,000 meteorite on their property too, and land was closed off to hunters. You were also the subject of magazine features in "Fortune" and Southwest Airlines magazines, and many other prominent publications -- very good articles and photos, by the way, and I have complimented you on them in person. So, if media pieces are about you it is fine, but you are "sickened" when others get some coverage? Please explain. Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com www.meteoriteblog.org From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jul 10 17:26:48 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:26:48 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090710172648.QJMLG.233772.imail@fed1rmwml29> Geoff, Steve, "meteorite Men" You are both class acts. There is nothing you can do about a psycho like Mike. In response to people like him it reminds me of what My mother has always said, she just shrugged her shoulders and says "GOD LOVE HIM". Just pray that they get help for him soon. In the mean time keep up the good work and TV show. I think someone has aleady said that Mike is the single biggest problem with this hobby today. Very sad. Carl. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Notkin wrote: > Dear Mike: > > So, when other people are featured in the media while searching for > meteorites you start tub thumping about it, but it's fine for Mike > Farmer to use the media when it is convenient for him? > > During the West, Texas hunt you and your team were in the papers > repeatedly, front page even. I didn't hear any complaints then. The > "Waco Tribune" did a big piece in which you talked about how you > bought a West (Ash Creek) stone during a secret meeting in a local gas > station for "more than $10.000" in cash. Most of that article focused > precisely on how much the West meteorites were worth: > > http://www.wacotrib.com/news/content/news/stories/2009/03/17/03172009wacmeteor.html > > I am sure I don't have to remind you that the newspaper story caused > plenty of local problems. Some landowners right away figured they > might have a $10,000 meteorite on their property too, and land was > closed off to hunters. > > You were also the subject of magazine features in "Fortune" and > Southwest Airlines magazines, and many other prominent publications -- > very good articles and photos, by the way, and I have complimented you > on them in person. So, if media pieces are about you it is fine, but > you are "sickened" when others get some coverage? Please explain. > > > Geoff N. > > www.aerolite.org > www.meteoritemen.com > www.meteoriteblog.org > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From geoking at notkin.net Fri Jul 10 17:34:35 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:34:35 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype [Fr. Ruben Garcia] Message-ID: <6C00071D-6C97-4131-8B60-5ABCC484D20A@notkin.net> Dear Listees: Our friend Ruben Garcia asked if I would send this on his behalf as he's having trouble posting: Regards, Geoff N. ********************** Hi all, I'm gonna try to respond with a different account and hope it goes through. Mike, there is some truth to what you say.. However, there are a few points that I disagree with. 1. First of all: Who among us hasn't used the media for their own benefit? We all do it. Sometimes it works out good sometimes not so good. 2. You mention that your feet are sore from hunting for days. Most of us that call ourselves "meteorite hunters" have done the same, many times - Including Steve. He is a great meteorite hunter so it's NOT just hype. 3. As far as I know there are only two teams actively working this fall. Mine and His and I don't know of any backstabbing - but I may be a little slow. Please inform me. 4. Yes, to some on this forum "meteorite men" is getting old - but to the masses it is NEW and Exciting! So who can blame him for using it? 5. You, of all people should know just because it's not in the paper doesn't mean we are not working on it. My Team consists of 9 people - some are meteorite hunters - some are locals, some are scientists and there are 5 team members in PA right now looking for video, witnesses, etc.... 6. You say "In NONE of those articles is there a peep that locals in that area need to get out and walk the streets, look for black burned stones, check the lawn, parking lots, parks..... " I personally told the reporter just that! Unfortunately, i can't make them print it. Also remember the title of one of Steve's articles is "Meteorite hunter says: Check security camera tapes " So obviously Steve is saying the same.... 7. We are hard at work! We may find meteorites we may not but If not I don't think it's because Steve has cameras pointed at him. 8. I've admitted to both and Steve that I am a bit jealous about their show. Maybe it's because I was signed to a production company a few months later. But since they beat me to it I WAS Dropped! (and for other reasons) But had I not been dropped I can assure you that I would be more interested in what the millions of viewers thought of me (and my show) more than a few meteorite people. 9. You guys are doing a great job congratulations - JACK IS THE MAN! I hope you guys find many more. We all applaud you. Continue the good work! My 2 cents, Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona My Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net My Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ My Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v From mlblood at cox.net Fri Jul 10 18:43:45 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:43:45 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension In-Reply-To: <594900.13616.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dean, Beware of casting your pearls before swine. Michael On 7/9/09 8:09 PM, "dean bessey" wrote: > > Many thanks Carl for the poswerseller phone number. This has caused me $100 in > phone bills today but at least the powerseller people reinstated my ebay > account. The downside is that I now have no auctions at all listed and because > ebay ended everything I have all the details lost so have to manually list > everything again - 1700 auctions. > Likely most wont get relisted as I plan to put more stuff on websites and > diversify from ebay. > I also found out why they suspended my account. Apparantly ebay has started a > new rule where tahiti pearls are no longer permitted to be listed on ebay. > So, rather than just end the pearl auctions (Or better yet - inform me of the > new rule) they just said that I violated their rules to often (I assume more > than 4 times since I had 300 tahiti pearl auctions so I violated their listing > rules 300 times) and suspended my account. > So anyway, thats why I was suspended and ebay has now kissed and made up so I > can list everything except pearls again now. > Cheers > DEAN > www.meteoriteshop.com > > > --- On Thu, 7/9/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > >> From: cdtucson at cox.net >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension >> To: "dean bessey" , "meteoritelist" >> >> Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:13 PM >> Dean, >> Hello, I have heard of you many times and you have a great >> reputation so obviously it is not about you. I think it is >> likely issues with your links as well. I assume you are a >> power seller. We power sellers can call and if you call back >> you may get somebody smarter to speak with. The number that >> I use is a toll free 866-519-3229. and I am always able to >> get answers ( but may take more than one call)? . It >> also may be a pearl seller competitor messing with you. As >> you know eBay these days is basically a glorified yard sale. >> Most dealers make much more from their own web sites. Good >> luck to you. Carl >> -- >> Carl or Debbie Esparza >> IMCA 5829 >> Meteoritemax >> >> >> ---- dean bessey >> wrote: >>> >>> As if you didnt need another reason to try and >> diversify your business away from ebay here is what happened >> to me this morning. I am not making any part of this up or >> in any way dramatizing what happened. Neither Stephen King >> nor the guys on CSI could make this up. >>> I wake up to numerous emails from ebay this morning >> from ebay cancelling my auctions and two emails saying that >> my account was suspended. >>> Many auctions were canceled because they were >> "Significantly misrepresented". After 3 hours of chatting >> with people I finally get through to the "trust and safety" >> people after a recommendation from ebay australia. >>> I was told that somebody (who??? - she had no way of >> knowing who) decided that my? auctions were >> misrepresented. She couldent tell me what was misrepresented >> just that they look at the description, picture and content >> when deciding was what misrepresented but she had no way of >> knowing exactly what. >>> So I try and reason with her. "If you cant tell me >> what it is about my auctions that was misrepresented how can >> I not repeat the problem in the future? >>> Sit down before you read her response. >>> She said that if ebay told everybody what they look >> for when they decide that auctions are misrepresented then >> people would do things to get around their security checks >> in future auctions so it would be a security violation to >> tell me what it was about my auctions that was being >> misrepresented and therfore canceled (And leading to my >> suspension.) She then said that my suspension was for 7 days >> so even if she did tell me it wouldent make any difference >> because you cant list on ebay for 7 days again anyway. >>> Reasoning is getting harder. "OK, for my information. >> in seven days time when I get back on ebay again can you >> tell me what about my auctions was misrepresented so that I >> can fix them and not violate your policy in the future so I >> dont get kicked off again?". >>> Sorry, telling you what the problem is would be a >> security violation and if people who what they looked for >> would do things to circumvent their rules in the future". >>> This is going nowhere. I wish that I had a copy of >> that phone conversation. It would have looked good on >> youtube. >>> In addition, the emails that ended the auctions said >> this: >>> ---------------------------------------------------- >>> eBay has restricted your ability to list new items as >> a result of a policy violation. We'd be happy to lift this >> restriction once you've completed a brief tutorial about >> this policy. The next time you sign in to your eBay account, >> click on ?Sell? and ?Sell Your Item.? You?ll then be asked >> to take the tutorial. Once you've completed it, you can >> begin selling again immediately. >>> __________________________________________ >>> Unfortunately, doing so is not possible so I cant even >> sign on. Even their emails dont make sense. >>> So with a bit of luck, sometime in the next 7 days >> they will tell me what was wrong with my auctions so that I >> can fix it and not violate their policy - although maybe >> they will not because doing so might enable me to fix the >> problem out and circumvent their rules in the future. >>> I plan to spend the next 7 days getting some shopping >> cart websites built and trying out other sites to sell >> stuff. Anybody got any ideas where else to list stuff? >> Anybody know somebody with ebay who will talk to me? >>> Apparantly it was my pearl auctions that was somehow >> misrepresented but its not possible to find out why. It >> sgoing to be a pain relisting 1700 auctions. It probably >> wont get done - especially if I can figure out how to build >> a nice shopping cart website >>> Cheers >>> DEAN >>> On a completely different note I need to come up with >> around $2000 in my paypal account in the next week so I am >> particularly into dealing from my website right now >> WWW.METEORITESHOP.COM so if you see anything let me know. >>> Also, you people out there who owe me money, now is a >> good time to pay up. >>> >>> >>> ? ? ??? >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jul 10 18:56:56 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 15:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: July 6-10, 2009 Message-ID: <200907102256.n6AMuuoF022636@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES July 6-10, 2009 o Nirgal Vallis (Released 06 July 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090706a o Holden Crater (Released 07 July 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090707a o Polar Layers (Released 08 July 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090708a o Dust Devil Tracks (Released 09 July 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090709a o Rabe Crater (Released 10 July 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090710a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 19:14:36 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:14:36 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype Message-ID: Hi Carl, I agree both Geoff and Steve are class acts all the way! Btw, my mom used to say the same thing your mom did. That's funny!! You don't suppose...Nah, our last names are different. One other thing, we should ease up on M.F. a bit. There's a lot of other people besides list members reading this. Carl, just my 2 cents. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Photos: it's easy to store and manage your photos online. See how. http://windowslive.com/Online/Photos?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_PH_store_manage_072009 From geohiggins at yahoo.com Fri Jul 10 20:04:33 2009 From: geohiggins at yahoo.com (John higgins) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] PA Meteorite Search- personal update Message-ID: <240443.77891.qm@web63208.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Hello Meteorite?List Members, Just dropping a line to give you all a update on my investigation, Today I visited Delta PA Fawn Grove PA New Park PA Stewartstown PA Right now I'm in?Freeland MD I have been out and about asking around for clues to the whereabouts of the famous PA?fireball. I would have to say that about 20% of the informants that I asked heard it or knows somebody who did, Have yet to meet an eye witness,?and from the data I gathered,?The informants are telling me that they believe its in the New Park area or at least that is the direction the explosive?sound was coming from. ? My suspicions lead me to believe that it's possibly in the Susquehanna Trails Area,?However there is no hard?evidence that leads me to this conclusion. Only?the trajectory which i devised from reading the news reports and talking to people on the ground. The terrain in this area is extremely rugged, hilly, and?overly abundant in?growing cornstalks, which would make a organized search?next to impossible, even if the search area is narrowed down to a mile or two. And you guys could forget about using CCTV's from car dealerships or the like because there is nothing around for miles and miles. I believe that without definitive pictures showing the exact trajectory of the fall?from several locations, finding this meteorite will be harder than finding?the proverbial?needle in a haystack. We are talking really rough?very sparsely populated?country! Anyway I'm here and will continue the search tomorrow, If anybody wants to meet up, I truly believe that?we can accomplish more as a meteorite recovery team. give me a call at 973-687-9888 Good Luck to all you Meteorite Hunters! Have a Great Day! John Higgins IMCA#9822 From deanbessey at yahoo.com Fri Jul 10 20:47:42 2009 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:47:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension Message-ID: <251333.79844.qm@web56104.mail.re3.yahoo.com> No they say that since they were ended because of listing violations that the fees are forfeited --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Don Merchant wrote: > From: Don Merchant > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension > To: "dean bessey" , "meteoritelist" , cdtucson at cox.net > Cc: "Don Merchant" > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 9:48 PM > Hi Dean and sorry to see you go > through this sad case of communication malfunction and lack > of professional? etiquette of EBay. Your right you > should of been contacted first or at the least as you said > to just them removing only the pearl auctions. Let me ask > you a question....did you hold EBay to paying all your > listing fees or have them allow you to list for free now > that you have their explanation? > Thank you. > Sincerely > Don Merchant > IMCA # 0960 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "dean bessey" > To: "meteoritelist" ; > > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 10:09 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension > > > > Many thanks Carl for the poswerseller phone number. This > has caused me $100 in phone bills today but at least the > powerseller people reinstated my ebay account. The downside > is that I now have no auctions at all listed and because > ebay ended everything I have all the details lost so have to > manually list everything again - 1700 auctions. > Likely most wont get relisted as I plan to put more stuff > on websites and diversify from ebay. > I also found out why they suspended my account. Apparantly > ebay has started a new rule where tahiti pearls are no > longer permitted to be listed on ebay. > So, rather than just end the pearl auctions (Or better yet > - inform me of the new rule) they just said that I violated > their rules to often (I assume more than 4 times since I had > 300 tahiti pearl auctions so I violated their listing rules > 300 times) and suspended my account. > So anyway, thats why I was suspended and ebay has now > kissed and made up so I can list everything except pearls > again now. > Cheers > DEAN > www.meteoriteshop.com > > > --- On Thu, 7/9/09, cdtucson at cox.net > > wrote: > > > From: cdtucson at cox.net > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension > > To: "dean bessey" , > "meteoritelist" > > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 7:13 PM > > Dean, > >? Hello, I have heard of you many times and you > have a great > > reputation so obviously it is not about you. I think > it is > > likely issues with your links as well. I assume you > are a > > power seller. We power sellers can call and if you > call back > > you may get somebody smarter to speak with. The number > that > > I use is a toll free 866-519-3229. and I am always > able to > > get answers ( but may take more than one call) . It > > also may be a pearl seller competitor messing with > you. As > > you know eBay these days is basically a glorified yard > sale. > > Most dealers make much more from their own web sites. > Good > > luck to you. Carl > > -- > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > Meteoritemax > > > > > > ---- dean bessey > > wrote: > > > > > > As if you didnt need another reason to try and > > diversify your business away from ebay here is what > happened > > to me this morning. I am not making any part of this > up or > > in any way dramatizing what happened. Neither Stephen > King > > nor the guys on CSI could make this up. > > > I wake up to numerous emails from ebay this > morning > > from ebay cancelling my auctions and two emails saying > that > > my account was suspended. > > > Many auctions were canceled because they were > > "Significantly misrepresented". After 3 hours of > chatting > > with people I finally get through to the "trust and > safety" > > people after a recommendation from ebay australia. > > > I was told that somebody (who??? - she had no way > of > > knowing who) decided that my auctions were > > misrepresented. She couldent tell me what was > misrepresented > > just that they look at the description, picture and > content > > when deciding was what misrepresented but she had no > way of > > knowing exactly what. > > > So I try and reason with her. "If you cant tell > me > > what it is about my auctions that was misrepresented > how can > > I not repeat the problem in the future? > > > Sit down before you read her response. > > > She said that if ebay told everybody what they > look > > for when they decide that auctions are misrepresented > then > > people would do things to get around their security > checks > > in future auctions so it would be a security violation > to > > tell me what it was about my auctions that was being > > misrepresented and therfore canceled (And leading to > my > > suspension.) She then said that my suspension was for > 7 days > > so even if she did tell me it wouldent make any > difference > > because you cant list on ebay for 7 days again > anyway. > > > Reasoning is getting harder. "OK, for my > information. > > in seven days time when I get back on ebay again can > you > > tell me what about my auctions was misrepresented so > that I > > can fix them and not violate your policy in the future > so I > > dont get kicked off again?". > > > Sorry, telling you what the problem is would be > a > > security violation and if people who what they looked > for > > would do things to circumvent their rules in the > future". > > > This is going nowhere. I wish that I had a copy > of > > that phone conversation. It would have looked good on > > youtube. > > > In addition, the emails that ended the auctions > said > > this: > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > > eBay has restricted your ability to list new > items as > > a result of a policy violation. We'd be happy to lift > this > > restriction once you've completed a brief tutorial > about > > this policy. The next time you sign in to your eBay > account, > > click on ?Sell? and ?Sell Your Item.? You?ll then be > asked > > to take the tutorial. Once you've completed it, you > can > > begin selling again immediately. > > > __________________________________________ > > > Unfortunately, doing so is not possible so I cant > even > > sign on. Even their emails dont make sense. > > > So with a bit of luck, sometime in the next 7 > days > > they will tell me what was wrong with my auctions so > that I > > can fix it and not violate their policy - although > maybe > > they will not because doing so might enable me to fix > the > > problem out and circumvent their rules in the future. > > > I plan to spend the next 7 days getting some > shopping > > cart websites built and trying out other sites to > sell > > stuff. Anybody got any ideas where else to list > stuff? > > Anybody know somebody with ebay who will talk to me? > > > Apparantly it was my pearl auctions that was > somehow > > misrepresented but its not possible to find out why. > It > > sgoing to be a pain relisting 1700 auctions. It > probably > > wont get done - especially if I can figure out how to > build > > a nice shopping cart website > > > Cheers > > > DEAN > > > On a completely different note I need to come up > with > > around $2000 in my paypal account in the next week so > I am > > particularly into dealing from my website right now > > WWW.METEORITESHOP.COM so if you see anything let me > know. > > > Also, you people out there who owe me money, now > is a > > good time to pay up. > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From deanbessey at yahoo.com Fri Jul 10 21:07:47 2009 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] My Ebay suspension Message-ID: <460689.95396.qm@web56102.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I have had 5 people email me privately with a message saying something to the effect of "Whats up with pearls - and could meteorites be next", so I will email the group rather than individually? Answer is be afraid - be very afriad. Apparantly the laws concerning the export and import of pearls are "complicated" so ebay has decided to no longer allow them (But there are still some listed on ebay and the "Trust and saftety" department told me it would be a security violation to give me this information - because people might use the info to circumvent those rules) so who the hell knows what ebay is up to. Even their own employees are kept in the dark (Presumably for security reasons) I was told that it is illegal to export pearls from French Polynesia directlty into the USA (Whats up, has obama got a new dislike for the french? - if I promise to never ever again use the term French Fry can I then list tahiti pearls again?) and that I should look into the laws regarding pearls in my own country before I sell anymore. So, I am told that conflicting and complicated laws are responsible for pearls getting prohibited from ebay. Hmmmmm. Complicacated and conflicting laws? That wouldent also apply to Meteorites, artifacts, coins, collectibles - not to mention leather pants (Countries where cows are sacred) or a free press in general in some countries would it. Ebay was started to sell laser pointers if I remember correctly. Maybe eventually thats all that will be allowed again. Me thinks that people should start diversifying from ebay as quickly and as much as possible. Paypal to (Nobody has ever had problems with paypal of course). I now have 1700 auctions that disapeared and ebay tells me sorry, shit happens, now just be a good little boy and relist them all again so we can collect more ebay fees - and if we decide to end them all without telling you why and keeping all those fees again, well, shit happens. Spending a lot of time looking for non ebay ways to sell right now Cheers DEAN From deanbessey at yahoo.com Fri Jul 10 21:09:53 2009 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Laws/Ebay Message-ID: <356032.96369.qm@web56102.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I am reposting this a second time with a new subject line because I am sure that some people are interested but never read the last posting due to not being interested in my personal ebay problems enough to bother opening the dozen't email on the topic --------------------------------------------------------------- I have had 5 people email me privately with a message saying something to the effect of "Whats up with pearls - and could meteorites be next", so I will email the group rather than individually? Answer is be afraid - be very afriad. Apparantly the laws concerning the export and import of pearls are "complicated" so ebay has decided to no longer allow them (But there are still some listed on ebay and the "Trust and saftety" department told me it would be a security violation to give me this information - because people might use the info to circumvent those rules) so who the hell knows what ebay is up to. Even their own employees are kept in the dark (Presumably for security reasons) I was told that it is illegal to export pearls from French Polynesia directlty into the USA (Whats up, has obama got a new dislike for the french? - if I promise to never ever again use the term French Fry can I then list tahiti pearls again?) and that I should look into the laws regarding pearls in my own country before I sell anymore. So, I am told that conflicting and complicated laws are responsible for pearls getting prohibited from ebay. Hmmmmm. Complicacated and conflicting laws? That wouldent also apply to Meteorites, artifacts, coins, collectibles - not to mention leather pants (Countries where cows are sacred) or a free press in general in some countries would it. Ebay was started to sell laser pointers if I remember correctly. Maybe eventually thats all that will be allowed again. Me thinks that people should start diversifying from ebay as quickly and as much as possible. Paypal to (Nobody has ever had problems with paypal of course). I now have 1700 auctions that disapeared and ebay tells me sorry, shit happens, now just be a good little boy and relist them all again so we can collect more ebay fees - and if we decide to end them all without telling you why and keeping all those fees again, well, shit happens. Spending a lot of time looking for non ebay ways to sell right now Cheers DEAN From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 10 21:35:36 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:35:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <153932.53710.qm@web110608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Yes, and again, this is where you are failing to understand the point I am making. When I was in the news in West, it was to get people in the immense strewn field to hunt, you were there, you know most locals were not cooperative or did not care. We wanted to prod them, to get them to collect stones before plowing destroyed them all. You know that every day we were out there tractors were plowing stones under. Either say nothing and watch it happen, or try and get the knowledge out there that they needed to be saved. The article you posted, you should check the date of 17 March, one month after the fall, that was my third and last trip to West, and there were virtually no more hunters left. I was trying to get the larger stones saved, as that was when we finally got the strewn field stretched out to 14 miles, and with no hunters in the field, there was one hope to recover more stones, only the farmers themselves. The news wanted a story about the large stone, and a price, I had to tell them more than $10,000 which is true. My story caused NO PROBLEMS, because there were NO hunters left after one month. Steve Arnold left town either the day before or the day that came out. His emails to the list would prove that. So Geoff, name one person harmed by my 17 March article which you quite below, and no stones were recovered after that except on John and Gary's land where everyone had been hunting. One month after the fall, what harm is left to do. The only goal was to get farmers to find stones as almost all meteorite hunters were gone. This is not the case in PA, no stones have been found, and while I know the press changes things and moves the story where they want to, there still seems to be almost no attempts to tell people what to look for. This is my point. My other magazines etc were not in an attempt to locate a new fall, just stories about meteorites and meteorite huting, generic, great publicity. There was no fresh fall languishing in the dirt being ignored while I basked in my glory. The "Meteorite Men" show is great, good job, but there is a point to let it go when a new fall should be the focus in these rare newspaper and tv interviews. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 7/10/09, Notkin wrote: > From: Notkin > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype > To: "Meteorite List" > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 3:00 PM > Dear Mike: > > So, when other people are featured in the media while > searching for meteorites you start tub thumping about it, > but it's fine for Mike Farmer to use the media when it is > convenient for him? > > During the West, Texas hunt you and your team were in the > papers repeatedly, front page even. I didn't hear any > complaints then. The "Waco Tribune" did a big piece in which > you talked about how you bought a West (Ash Creek) stone > during a secret meeting in a local gas station for "more > than $10.000" in cash. Most of that article focused > precisely on how much the West meteorites were worth: > > http://www.wacotrib.com/news/content/news/stories/2009/03/17/03172009wacmeteor.html > > I am sure I don't have to remind you that the newspaper > story caused plenty of local problems. Some landowners right > away figured they might have a $10,000 meteorite on their > property too, and land was closed off to hunters. > > You were also the subject of magazine features in "Fortune" > and Southwest Airlines magazines, and many other prominent > publications -- very good articles and photos, by the way, > and I have complimented you on them in person. So, if media > pieces are about you it is fine, but you are "sickened" when > others get some coverage? Please explain. > > > Geoff N. > > www.aerolite.org > www.meteoritemen.com > www.meteoriteblog.org > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 10 21:38:56 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:38:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype In-Reply-To: <20090710172648.QJMLG.233772.imail@fed1rmwml29> Message-ID: <236604.75080.qm@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Carl, your response is so rude to hardly deserve a reply, but hey, it is not often I am called a "Psycho". Pretty funny really. You should really get a paper towl and clean that brown stuff off your nose. Carl, there is a reason that the institutions want nothing to do with you, and you know why. You should tell the list about what makes all of your "new" Arizona meteorites so similar. Any new Eucrites you found on your meteorite farm lately? Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 7/10/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > From: cdtucson at cox.net > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype > To: "Meteorite List" , "Notkin" > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 3:26 PM > Geoff, Steve, "meteorite Men" You are > both class acts. There is nothing you can do about a psycho > like Mike. In response to people like him it reminds me of > what? My mother has always said, she just shrugged her > shoulders and says "GOD LOVE HIM". Just pray that they get > help for him soon. In the mean time keep up the good work > and TV show.? I think someone has aleady said that > Mike? is the single biggest problem with this hobby > today. Very sad. Carl. > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > > > ---- Notkin > wrote: > > Dear Mike: > > > > So, when other people are featured in the media while > searching for? > > meteorites you start tub thumping about it, but it's > fine for Mike? > > Farmer to use the media when it is convenient for > him? > > > > During the West, Texas hunt you and your team were in > the papers? > > repeatedly, front page even. I didn't hear any > complaints then. The? > > "Waco Tribune" did a big piece in which you talked > about how you? > > bought a West (Ash Creek) stone during a secret > meeting in a local gas? > > station for "more than $10.000" in cash. Most of that > article focused? > > precisely on how much the West meteorites were worth: > > > > http://www.wacotrib.com/news/content/news/stories/2009/03/17/03172009wacmeteor.html > > > > I am sure I don't have to remind you that the > newspaper story caused? > > plenty of local problems. Some landowners right away > figured they? > > might have a $10,000 meteorite on their property too, > and land was? > > closed off to hunters. > > > > You were also the subject of magazine features in > "Fortune" and? > > Southwest Airlines magazines, and many other prominent > publications --? > > very good articles and photos, by the way, and I have > complimented you? > > on them in person. So, if media pieces are about you > it is fine, but? > > you are "sickened" when others get some coverage? > Please explain. > > > > > > Geoff N. > > > > www.aerolite.org > > www.meteoritemen.com > > www.meteoriteblog.org > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From bencubbin at hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 21:46:15 2009 From: bencubbin at hotmail.com (Howard Steffic) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:46:15 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Laws/Ebay In-Reply-To: <356032.96369.qm@web56102.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <356032.96369.qm@web56102.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: As a well known "bottom feeder" how about if we take your scare tactics with a grain of salt. Also, I would guess the laws that you violated had nothing to do with the US but the country of origin. Nice try with the cheap shot on Obama though. For your edification.....ebay was started by selling pez dispensers. Howard Steffic > Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:09:53 -0700 > From: deanbessey at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Laws/Ebay > > > I am reposting this a second time with a new subject line because I am sure that some people are interested but never read the last posting due to not being interested in my personal ebay problems enough to bother opening the dozen't email on the topic > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > I have had 5 people email me privately with a message saying something to the effect of "Whats up with pearls - and could meteorites be next", so I will email the group rather than individually? > Answer is be afraid - be very afriad. > Apparantly the laws concerning the export and import of pearls are "complicated" so ebay has decided to no longer allow them (But there are still some listed on ebay and the "Trust and saftety" department told me it would be a security violation to give me this information - because people might use the info to circumvent those rules) so who the hell knows what ebay is up to. Even their own employees are kept in the dark (Presumably for security reasons) > I was told that it is illegal to export pearls from French Polynesia directlty into the USA (Whats up, has obama got a new dislike for the french? - if I promise to never ever again use the term French Fry can I then list tahiti pearls again?) and that I should look into the laws regarding pearls in my own country before I sell anymore. > So, I am told that conflicting and complicated laws are responsible for pearls getting prohibited from ebay. > Hmmmmm. Complicacated and conflicting laws? That wouldent also apply to Meteorites, artifacts, coins, collectibles - not to mention leather pants (Countries where cows are sacred) or a free press in general in some countries would it. > Ebay was started to sell laser pointers if I remember correctly. Maybe eventually thats all that will be allowed again. > Me thinks that people should start diversifying from ebay as quickly and as much as possible. Paypal to (Nobody has ever had problems with paypal of course). > I now have 1700 auctions that disapeared and ebay tells me sorry, shit happens, now just be a good little boy and relist them all again so we can collect more ebay fees - and if we decide to end them all without telling you why and keeping all those fees again, well, shit happens. > Spending a lot of time looking for non ebay ways to sell right now > Cheers > DEAN > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?: Spread the word when you add celeb photos to your e-mails. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_celebrity_photos1_072009&cat=celebrity From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com Fri Jul 10 23:20:48 2009 From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:20:48 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Laws/Ebay In-Reply-To: References: <356032.96369.qm@web56102.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6f9da8300907102020y7603ab3asc3bc5b2c91b707b9@mail.gmail.com> Hi Howard you wrote; <> Actually that is a story that was made up by a PR person to generate interest in the site. Here is an article about it from 2002; http://www.davidrowan.com/2002/07/times-ebays-creation-myth-exposed.html He actually sold computer parts. Mike Mike Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 USA 720-949-6220 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Howard Steffic wrote: > > As a well known "bottom feeder" how about if we take your scare tactics with a grain of salt. > > Also, I would guess the laws that you violated had nothing to do with the US but the country of origin. ?Nice try with the cheap shot on Obama though. > > For your edification.....ebay was started by selling pez dispensers. > > Howard Steffic > > >> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:09:53 -0700 >> From: deanbessey at yahoo.com >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Laws/Ebay >> >> >> I am reposting this a second time with a new subject line because I am sure that some people are interested but never read the last posting due to not being interested in my personal ebay problems enough to bother opening the dozen't email on the topic >> --------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> I have had 5 people email me privately with a message saying something to the effect of "Whats up with pearls - and could meteorites be next", so I will email the group rather than individually? >> Answer is be afraid - be very afriad. >> Apparantly the laws concerning the export and import of pearls are "complicated" so ebay has decided to no longer allow them (But there are still some listed on ebay and the "Trust and saftety" department told me it would be a security violation to give me this information - because people might use the info to circumvent those rules) so who the hell knows what ebay is up to. Even their own employees are kept in the dark (Presumably for security reasons) >> I was told that it is illegal to export pearls from French Polynesia directlty into the USA (Whats up, has obama got a new dislike for the french? - if I promise to never ever again use the term French Fry can I then list tahiti pearls again?) and that I should look into the laws regarding pearls in my own country before I sell anymore. >> So, I am told that conflicting and complicated laws are responsible for pearls getting prohibited from ebay. >> Hmmmmm. Complicacated and conflicting laws? That wouldent also apply to Meteorites, artifacts, coins, collectibles - not to mention leather pants (Countries where cows are sacred) or a free press in general in some countries would it. >> Ebay was started to sell laser pointers if I remember correctly. Maybe eventually thats all that will be allowed again. >> Me thinks that people should start diversifying from ebay as quickly and as much as possible. Paypal to (Nobody has ever had problems with paypal of course). >> I now have 1700 auctions that disapeared and ebay tells me sorry, shit happens, now just be a good little boy and relist them all again so we can collect more ebay fees - and if we decide to end them all without telling you why and keeping all those fees again, well, shit happens. >> Spending a lot of time looking for non ebay ways to sell right now >> Cheers >> DEAN >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live? Hotmail?: Spread the word when you add celeb photos to your e-mails. Check it out. > http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_celebrity_photos1_072009&cat=celebrity > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Fri Jul 10 23:45:32 2009 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 20:45:32 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Small, but not too small, Murchison Message-ID: Hello all - I have 5 fragments of Murchison available at a flat $100 per gram plus shipping of your choice Gram weights are: 2.88 2.26 1.98 0.87 0.61 What doesn't sell goes off to eBay where the price has been well over $100 per gram. I checked the web for on-line pricing and found not available after a quick look so I do expect these to go quickly. Be well, Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/nakhladog ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 From jnbran at verizon.net Fri Jul 10 23:43:23 2009 From: jnbran at verizon.net (JASON PHILLIPS) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:43:23 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 100 kg Brenham ending make an offer References: <356032.96369.qm@web56102.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01e801ca01d9$be27a280$4001a8c0@yourlk4rlmsu41> Hello List, My 100 kg Brenham pallasite meteorite is going off on eBay tomorrow and the Make Offer feature is available up until the ending of the auction. If you are interested in this specimen, which is a world class piece if not for beauty and rarity then for it's large size, please make an offer. I will also entertain offers of trade (or cash/trade) and I am willing to be very generous in my trade deals. http://cgi.ebay.com/100-kilo-Brenham-Pallasite-meteorite-full-of-gemstones_W0QQitemZ260441133712QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca3805290&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 Take Care, Jason Phillips Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sat Jul 11 00:31:05 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:31:05 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype Message-ID: Hello Michael and all, I am sorry for being so delayed in responding to your post. I have been busy today interviewing with the Fox TV station in York, and the NBC station in Lancaster and some other network (maybe ABC) in Baltimore. Then I had a radio interview with NPR after that. It has been a busy day doing all this media stuff. Back in the day, when your mentor Casper was still haunting the Meteorite List, he tried to get people into online fights all the time. But back then every time I was tempted to reply to him, I was reminded of an old saying: "Don't get in a mud wrestling match with a pig, as you both will get muddy, and the pig will just enjoy it." I know you like nothing better than to get into arguments. And trust me, I am not entering this dialog with you just so you can get your jollies. I figure it is about time to make a response. I have remained quiet for over a year as you just seem to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on ad infinitum. In a way, it is funny. In a way it really is sad. Let me pick a few things to address, from your post: "This is out of control..." Out of control? What makes you think it isn't in control? You are "sickened by these stories..." You? Sickened? By stories? LOL I thought you were born with your condition. You don't hold your cards to your chest? Umm...ok? Offers in papers to pay more and not to sell to greedy dealers on the ground??? Not sure what you mean by that...but ok. The endless media hype is getting old to you? Get used to it, it is about to get kicked up about 7 fold! Literally, 7 fold. I would say "I am sorry," but I'm not. It is called marketing, and it will continue. Every email? Are you referring to my signature of "Steve Arnold of Meteorite Men" at the end of my Meteorite List emails? If so, let me clue you in. If you haven't noticed, there is another person in our community and on this list, who has the same name as I do. I used to sign my name "Steve Arnold #1" then at times I would use "Steve Arnold from Arkansas." Neither of those I was ever really comfortable in using, but I felt it was very necessary to distinguish me from the Steve Arnold in Chicago. Both, people on the List, and those off the List that stumble onto posts such as this one, maybe via Google, might get confused at times. Now that I am more known because of the Meteorite Men show I have figured that I would rather start using the name from which I am now more known. It is not a matter of "promoting the show" but more to identify me. I would say "I am sorry that you are offended," but I'm not. Every Ebay auction? Are you referring to my ebay auctions where I mention who I am and how I am known to the general public? In this day of questionable sellers on ebay, I list something that distinguishes me. By the way, is this criticism coming from the same man that for at least 7 or 8 or 9 or 10 years ceaselessly mentioned in each and every one of his Ebay auctions: "See me in the 1999 Smithsonian Magazine"??? ROTFLMAO My prime time show first aired ONLY 60 days ago, and will air 4 more times in this next week. And you are already tired of my Ebay listings mention it? LOL Besides, what on Earth is wrong with saying "Yes, I am that guy on the TV show!"??? If you don't like it Mike, don't read "EVERY" one of my Ebay listings. No one makes you read each and every one I put up. Chill out dude, really it is ok. How long must you endure this "hype?" Well, again, my suggestion is to get used to the marketing, it will continue. I would say "I am sorry," but you guessed it, I'm not. "Just get out there an work" you say? Umm, as if I am not working now? Or are you saying that listing things on Ebay is "not working"? LOL This is too funny. My fame is not even worth $1.00? And may I ask what you base that calculation on? I would say my fame is worth at least $2.00, maybe even a quarter more. How much is your 1999 Smithsonian Magazine fame worth anyway? "Walking, blisters, sunburns, that will find meteorites..." Oh, you mean like the 28 days in a row I spent in West walking, getting blisters (albeit no sunburns) and kicking butt finding rather than buying meteorites? OK, I will try to remember what impresses people like you. Oh wait, your weren't impressed with what I did in West...now I am confused... "In NONE of those articles is there a peep that locals in that area need to get out and walk the streets, look for black burned stones, check the lawn, parking lots, parks..... Why not?" Um, well, many of those stories that ran were in the Baltimore, Maryland market and not in the Pennsylvania market where the meteorites actually are. To tell people in Baltimore, over an hour away from the strewnfield, to look for rocks would be a bit misleading wouldn't it? Besides, when I did the first series of interviews, my objective was to find more videos of the fireball (from security cameras from far away places). With those I felt the strewnfield could better be identified. Ironically, today when I was interviewing with the York, PA and Lancaster, PA, TV shows, I actually did talk about black rocks, showing them several West stones, magnets attached and all. Why? Because those news stories were being broadcast in the areas where the rocks are. But just because they didn't print in the papers what you wanted to see, at first doesn't mean that I didn't tell some things they didn't report on. Of course, we all know you are the expert at getting reporters to write exactly what you want them to. For the rest of us, reporters have a way of writing stories they think their readers will want to read, not always what we want them to. I had a producer/cameraman with me, so when the print reporters asked me who this is filming me and why, I told them who it was and that we were filming for the Meteorite Men TV series. I guess the REPORTERS felt that this piece of information was a news worthy enough thing to comment on. Did I actively promote that is why we were here and that is what I wanted them to write about? No. Did I mention it? Yes. Of course, if it ads to my credibility, that maybe Discovery Networks and Science Channel (who's International Headquarters so happens to be just outside of Baltimore, Maryland) feel I am credible enough to be on their networks, then maybe what I have to say on the matter of meteorites might hold some significance, then why not use it? Are you telling me that you would not mention that you are on a show that is currently airing if you were? I could say that I appeared in the Smithsonian Magazine in 1999 but I decided not to...oh, wait, it is someone else that holds that claim to fame, not me. LOL If I keep hyping myself, you claim this July 6th meteorite will be lost? I can tell you haven't even been following this story too closely, have you? You have been too busy getting a sunburn I guess, which is cool, except it makes yourself look foolish when you spout off like this. The single person that started this is the reporter/blogger for the Baltimore Sun, Frank Roylance. If you read his blogs, and read his stories this week, including his replies to comments by his blog readers, you will see that early on he strongly doubted that any meteorites would have survived this fall. After persistent communication with him, he slowly opened to the idea that if there were such strong sonic booms, then maybe, like I said from the start, maybe there could be some rocks on the ground. I seriously doubt that if I would have bombarded him with insisting that he write that everyone needs to drop everything and start looking for black magnet-attracted rocks, nothing extra would have been mentioned beyond his first blog post. Instead, he found in my interview what he and his editor thought was an interesting story that their readers would like to read. But to have the gall to blame me that if nothing is recovered, it is all my fault, is so typically you, Mike. How about this theory instead: If the meteorite from July 6th is not recovered and is thus "lost," it is all YOUR fault!!! If only YOU cared enough to come up here yourself, you would have no doubt done everything perfect. You would have led all the media into writing the perfect stories. And then you would have led all of the citizens of Pennsylvania and Maryland combined on a "Team Farmer Expedition" to not only recover some of the meteorites, but ALL of them! And probably they would all have been found by now, and we would all be reading your posts about how great you and your exploits are. Would I have written the stories and reported the TV news casts differently if I could have? Sure. Have I learned some things on this trip? Sure. I plan on working on a Fact Sheet that might help get relevant issues and facts at least in front of the reporters nest time, so that even if they forget to ask me a question they don't know they should ask, and if I forget to tell them something that I probably should, they will still have easy access to those facts. "Sad" you say? Yes! I finally agree with you on something Mike. Your post was indeed "sad." Now, I have to go shower and wash off all this mud. And then get back to the leads that are still coming in. Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" ;-) In a message dated 7/10/2009 2:44:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: This is out of control, endless media hype by those seeking nothing but fame, and nothing about what the public should be looking for. After days of walking, I am sitting here in Tucson, playing with two week old meteorites, and resting my blister-covered feet and catching up on the last few days of emails. I am sickened by these stories, the backstabbing already in full swing out east. We don't want and by holding our cards to our chest, we don't have that problem out here. I hope everyone can see that now. Offers in papers about "paying more, and don't sell to greedy dealers on the ground, just call me" etc. Now you know why we don't want any help with our fall. We are working together, and finding stones. I speak for myself here, so any crap needs come to me, as my teammates and friends are in the field right now, but work must be done since I am at home and I am taking today to recuperate. This endless media blitz over "Meteorite-Men" is getting old. Every email, every eBay auction, every mention of some people to throw that quip in. How long must we endure this hype? Come on, just get out there and work, your fame is worth about $1.00 in the field. Walking, blisters, sunburns, that will find meteorites, not talking about your show. In NONE of those articles is there a peep that locals in that area need to get out and walk the streets, look for black burned stones, check the lawn, parking lots, parks..... Why not? Tell people what to do, not the prices per gram, it has to be found to be sold. If this PA stone is found, it won't be with the pictures but by a person mowing their lawn, or driving down the road. Focus on the hunt, use the locals and this can be found, keep hyping yourselves and it is just publicity, and the meteorite will be lost. Sad. Michael Farmer **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823300x1201398714/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com Sat Jul 11 00:54:47 2009 From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <475288.83218.qm@web43407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> GREAT post Steve. I agree 100%. I have not read the 1999 Smithsonian mag, but I have seen Meteorite Men. I learned a lot from it and it got me wanting to hunt even more than I already do, that can't be a bad thing. I'm sure im not the only one. I am sure you show will help some new finds to undoubtedly be found by people who saw your show. Keep up the good work and I wish you, Geoff and everyone else hunting over there the best of luck on the July 6th fall hunt. Can't wait to see the pics of the new finds I am sure that will be found soon. Best of Luck, Joe Kerchner ----- Original Message ---- From: "MeteorHntr at aol.com" To: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 11:31:05 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype Hello Michael and all, I am sorry for being so delayed in responding to your post. I have been busy today interviewing with the Fox TV station in York, and the NBC station in Lancaster and some other network (maybe ABC) in Baltimore. Then I had a radio interview with NPR after that. It has been a busy day doing all this media stuff. Back in the day, when your mentor Casper was still haunting the Meteorite List, he tried to get people into online fights all the time. But back then every time I was tempted to reply to him, I was reminded of an old saying: "Don't get in a mud wrestling match with a pig, as you both will get muddy, and the pig will just enjoy it." I know you like nothing better than to get into arguments. And trust me, I am not entering this dialog with you just so you can get your jollies. I figure it is about time to make a response. I have remained quiet for over a year as you just seem to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on ad infinitum. In a way, it is funny. In a way it really is sad. Let me pick a few things to address, from your post: "This is out of control..." Out of control? What makes you think it isn't in control? You are "sickened by these stories..." You? Sickened? By stories? LOL I thought you were born with your condition. You don't hold your cards to your chest? Umm...ok? Offers in papers to pay more and not to sell to greedy dealers on the ground??? Not sure what you mean by that...but ok. The endless media hype is getting old to you? Get used to it, it is about to get kicked up about 7 fold! Literally, 7 fold. I would say "I am sorry," but I'm not. It is called marketing, and it will continue. Every email? Are you referring to my signature of "Steve Arnold of Meteorite Men" at the end of my Meteorite List emails? If so, let me clue you in. If you haven't noticed, there is another person in our community and on this list, who has the same name as I do. I used to sign my name "Steve Arnold #1" then at times I would use "Steve Arnold from Arkansas." Neither of those I was ever really comfortable in using, but I felt it was very necessary to distinguish me from the Steve Arnold in Chicago. Both, people on the List, and those off the List that stumble onto posts such as this one, maybe via Google, might get confused at times. Now that I am more known because of the Meteorite Men show I have figured that I would rather start using the name from which I am now more known. It is not a matter of "promoting the show" but more to identify me. I would say "I am sorry that you are offended," but I'm not. Every Ebay auction? Are you referring to my ebay auctions where I mention who I am and how I am known to the general public? In this day of questionable sellers on ebay, I list something that distinguishes me. By the way, is this criticism coming from the same man that for at least 7 or 8 or 9 or 10 years ceaselessly mentioned in each and every one of his Ebay auctions: "See me in the 1999 Smithsonian Magazine"??? ROTFLMAO My prime time show first aired ONLY 60 days ago, and will air 4 more times in this next week. And you are already tired of my Ebay listings mention it? LOL Besides, what on Earth is wrong with saying "Yes, I am that guy on the TV show!"??? If you don't like it Mike, don't read "EVERY" one of my Ebay listings. No one makes you read each and every one I put up. Chill out dude, really it is ok. How long must you endure this "hype?" Well, again, my suggestion is to get used to the marketing, it will continue. I would say "I am sorry," but you guessed it, I'm not. "Just get out there an work" you say? Umm, as if I am not working now? Or are you saying that listing things on Ebay is "not working"? LOL This is too funny. My fame is not even worth $1.00? And may I ask what you base that calculation on? I would say my fame is worth at least $2.00, maybe even a quarter more. How much is your 1999 Smithsonian Magazine fame worth anyway? "Walking, blisters, sunburns, that will find meteorites..." Oh, you mean like the 28 days in a row I spent in West walking, getting blisters (albeit no sunburns) and kicking butt finding rather than buying meteorites? OK, I will try to remember what impresses people like you. Oh wait, your weren't impressed with what I did in West...now I am confused... "In NONE of those articles is there a peep that locals in that area need to get out and walk the streets, look for black burned stones, check the lawn, parking lots, parks..... Why not?" Um, well, many of those stories that ran were in the Baltimore, Maryland market and not in the Pennsylvania market where the meteorites actually are. To tell people in Baltimore, over an hour away from the strewnfield, to look for rocks would be a bit misleading wouldn't it? Besides, when I did the first series of interviews, my objective was to find more videos of the fireball (from security cameras from far away places). With those I felt the strewnfield could better be identified. Ironically, today when I was interviewing with the York, PA and Lancaster, PA, TV shows, I actually did talk about black rocks, showing them several West stones, magnets attached and all. Why? Because those news stories were being broadcast in the areas where the rocks are. But just because they didn't print in the papers what you wanted to see, at first doesn't mean that I didn't tell some things they didn't report on. Of course, we all know you are the expert at getting reporters to write exactly what you want them to. For the rest of us, reporters have a way of writing stories they think their readers will want to read, not always what we want them to. I had a producer/cameraman with me, so when the print reporters asked me who this is filming me and why, I told them who it was and that we were filming for the Meteorite Men TV series. I guess the REPORTERS felt that this piece of information was a news worthy enough thing to comment on. Did I actively promote that is why we were here and that is what I wanted them to write about? No. Did I mention it? Yes. Of course, if it ads to my credibility, that maybe Discovery Networks and Science Channel (who's International Headquarters so happens to be just outside of Baltimore, Maryland) feel I am credible enough to be on their networks, then maybe what I have to say on the matter of meteorites might hold some significance, then why not use it? Are you telling me that you would not mention that you are on a show that is currently airing if you were? I could say that I appeared in the Smithsonian Magazine in 1999 but I decided not to...oh, wait, it is someone else that holds that claim to fame, not me. LOL If I keep hyping myself, you claim this July 6th meteorite will be lost? I can tell you haven't even been following this story too closely, have you? You have been too busy getting a sunburn I guess, which is cool, except it makes yourself look foolish when you spout off like this. The single person that started this is the reporter/blogger for the Baltimore Sun, Frank Roylance. If you read his blogs, and read his stories this week, including his replies to comments by his blog readers, you will see that early on he strongly doubted that any meteorites would have survived this fall. After persistent communication with him, he slowly opened to the idea that if there were such strong sonic booms, then maybe, like I said from the start, maybe there could be some rocks on the ground. I seriously doubt that if I would have bombarded him with insisting that he write that everyone needs to drop everything and start looking for black magnet-attracted rocks, nothing extra would have been mentioned beyond his first blog post. Instead, he found in my interview what he and his editor thought was an interesting story that their readers would like to read. But to have the gall to blame me that if nothing is recovered, it is all my fault, is so typically you, Mike. How about this theory instead: If the meteorite from July 6th is not recovered and is thus "lost," it is all YOUR fault!!! If only YOU cared enough to come up here yourself, you would have no doubt done everything perfect. You would have led all the media into writing the perfect stories. And then you would have led all of the citizens of Pennsylvania and Maryland combined on a "Team Farmer Expedition" to not only recover some of the meteorites, but ALL of them! And probably they would all have been found by now, and we would all be reading your posts about how great you and your exploits are. Would I have written the stories and reported the TV news casts differently if I could have? Sure. Have I learned some things on this trip? Sure. I plan on working on a Fact Sheet that might help get relevant issues and facts at least in front of the reporters nest time, so that even if they forget to ask me a question they don't know they should ask, and if I forget to tell them something that I probably should, they will still have easy access to those facts. "Sad" you say? Yes! I finally agree with you on something Mike. Your post was indeed "sad." Now, I have to go shower and wash off all this mud. And then get back to the leads that are still coming in. Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" ;-) In a message dated 7/10/2009 2:44:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: This is out of control, endless media hype by those seeking nothing but fame, and nothing about what the public should be looking for. After days of walking, I am sitting here in Tucson, playing with two week old meteorites, and resting my blister-covered feet and catching up on the last few days of emails. I am sickened by these stories, the backstabbing already in full swing out east. We don't want and by holding our cards to our chest, we don't have that problem out here. I hope everyone can see that now. Offers in papers about "paying more, and don't sell to greedy dealers on the ground, just call me" etc. Now you know why we don't want any help with our fall. We are working together, and finding stones. I speak for myself here, so any crap needs come to me, as my teammates and friends are in the field right now, but work must be done since I am at home and I am taking today to recuperate. This endless media blitz over "Meteorite-Men" is getting old. Every email, every eBay auction, every mention of some people to throw that quip in. How long must we endure this hype? Come on, just get out there and work, your fame is worth about $1.00 in the field. Walking, blisters, sunburns, that will find meteorites, not talking about your show. In NONE of those articles is there a peep that locals in that area need to get out and walk the streets, look for black burned stones, check the lawn, parking lots, parks..... Why not? Tell people what to do, not the prices per gram, it has to be found to be sold. If this PA stone is found, it won't be with the pictures but by a person mowing their lawn, or driving down the road. Focus on the hunt, use the locals and this can be found, keep hyping yourselves and it is just publicity, and the meteorite will be lost. Sad. Michael Farmer **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823300x1201398714/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cdtucson at cox.net Sat Jul 11 01:22:55 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 22:22:55 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype In-Reply-To: <236604.75080.qm@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090711012255.W4R8Y.155458.imail@fed1rmwml38> Mike, List, Sorry for this list but here goes. This post is lower than I thought even you would stoop. Steve's portrait of you as a pig in mud is very kind. I, like Steve won't stoop to mud slinging but are you envious that I and not you have found Arizona meteorites. All you need to do is get out and look on your own and you may find some. Don't always depend on other people like Jack to steer you. I might add that anybody can buy meteorites from those very hard working Moroccans. Your work fails to impress everybody but you. You toot your own horn more than everybody else on this list combined. Yes you are in bed with a few scientists but ask any one of them if they respect you. Sure you feed them but someday they will realize that they are better off with the rest of us instead of you. I have been reading this list for only two years and I have never read a single good thing about you. you treat everyone the same. Like crap. I know. Here I go again needing the towel to clean up with but I love this list. I think most of the people are amazing . I have learned a great deal and a few of the people are no less than geniuses. You are the only true moron that posts here. And what do you mean institutions don't want to deal with me? I deal with many scientists and so far not a single complaint. Michael Blood sold a small self find Eucrite for me but what have you to do with this??? Mike you would do well to start being nice to people. I have gotten quite a few posts thanking me for what I've said and I do not know these people. So, I am not alone here. Please go shower and maybe you will see what it feels like to be clean . -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Michael Farmer wrote: > > Carl, your response is so rude to hardly deserve a reply, but hey, it is not often I am called a "Psycho". Pretty funny really. You should really get a paper towl and clean that brown stuff off your nose. > Carl, there is a reason that the institutions want nothing to do with you, and you know why. You should tell the list about what makes all of your "new" Arizona meteorites so similar. > Any new Eucrites you found on your meteorite farm lately? > Michael Farmer > > --- On Fri, 7/10/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > > > From: cdtucson at cox.net > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype > > To: "Meteorite List" , "Notkin" > > Date: Friday, July 10, 2009, 3:26 PM > > Geoff, Steve, "meteorite Men" You are > > both class acts. There is nothing you can do about a psycho > > like Mike. In response to people like him it reminds me of > > what? My mother has always said, she just shrugged her > > shoulders and says "GOD LOVE HIM". Just pray that they get > > help for him soon. In the mean time keep up the good work > > and TV show.? I think someone has aleady said that > > Mike? is the single biggest problem with this hobby > > today. Very sad. Carl. > > -- > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > Meteoritemax > > > > > > ---- Notkin > > wrote: > > > Dear Mike: > > > > > > So, when other people are featured in the media while > > searching for? > > > meteorites you start tub thumping about it, but it's > > fine for Mike? > > > Farmer to use the media when it is convenient for > > him? > > > > > > During the West, Texas hunt you and your team were in > > the papers? > > > repeatedly, front page even. I didn't hear any > > complaints then. The? > > > "Waco Tribune" did a big piece in which you talked > > about how you? > > > bought a West (Ash Creek) stone during a secret > > meeting in a local gas? > > > station for "more than $10.000" in cash. Most of that > > article focused? > > > precisely on how much the West meteorites were worth: > > > > > > http://www.wacotrib.com/news/content/news/stories/2009/03/17/03172009wacmeteor.html > > > > > > I am sure I don't have to remind you that the > > newspaper story caused? > > > plenty of local problems. Some landowners right away > > figured they? > > > might have a $10,000 meteorite on their property too, > > and land was? > > > closed off to hunters. > > > > > > You were also the subject of magazine features in > > "Fortune" and? > > > Southwest Airlines magazines, and many other prominent > > publications --? > > > very good articles and photos, by the way, and I have > > complimented you? > > > on them in person. So, if media pieces are about you > > it is fine, but? > > > you are "sickened" when others get some coverage? > > Please explain. > > > > > > > > > Geoff N. > > > > > > www.aerolite.org > > > www.meteoritemen.com > > > www.meteoriteblog.org > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From parkforestmet at hotmail.com Sat Jul 11 01:39:06 2009 From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:39:06 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Pretty creepy stuff. It's this sort of self aggrandizing egomania that turned me away from buying anything promoted by and as a result, fueling the behavior of any of these "dealers". Call it marketing... one of my favorites was the one about, "Making meteorites part of pop culture." It used to be funny, watching them fight over material, classifications and pairings. Now we have to deal with their superhero complexes? Give me a friggin break. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 11 08:05:37 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 05:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites forsale update (AD) Message-ID: <984730.16767.qm@web57808.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi again list.It is a new week.I hope everyone is well.How goes it in arizona? Any leads in PA?? I have added 2 more meteorites forsale.Here is the whole list again ------------------------------------------------------------------SIKHOTE-ALIN? 201 GRAMS??????? $200 NWA 5477????? 22 GRAM ENDCUT L3 TYPE? $200 SIKHOTE-ALIN? 79 GRAMS W/nice flow lines? $100 PIERCEVILLE,KS? 2.4 GRAM SLICE? $50 LAS PALMAS,ARGENTINA? 274 GRAMS?? $80 NWA 2827????? 38 GRAM SLICE????? $100 GRIFFITH, TX??? 7 GRAM PART SLICE??? $75 ------------------------------------------------------------------The gibeon is sold.Later today I will pull out my 22 gram JAMESTOWN,ND slice and get it ready forsale as planned.Again free shipping?all going towards a BIG purchase.? ?Steve R. Arnold From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sat Jul 11 08:29:31 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 08:29:31 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 11, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_11_2009.html __________________________ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823300x1201398714/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sat Jul 11 09:19:07 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:19:07 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Call for papers and RE: A Curator Replies In-Reply-To: References: <002e01ca009d$f02a4d10$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Hi Moni, Martin, and Peter, etc.: This is a good opportunity for my usual Call for papers. The August issue is well on its way to production and Nancy and I are already starting to work on the November issue. Yes, I have said it before: it never ends. 1. In response to you, Moni, I have already been in contact with Peter about a potential article. I like your idea of an article by Martin. Martin, sounds good to me! Please acknowledge. 2. Now, to everyone else. We are still looking for articles for the November issue. We are about half way there, so need, maybe 3 or 4 more articles. Any takers? 3. URGENT!!! Some time ago, I put out a request for short (several hundred words) articles on the life of O. Richard Norton and how he has influenced our lives either in person or through his books. PLEASE respond to this. We have a few articles, but, again, could use more (5 or 10?). Please send these As Soon As Possible along with any appropriate pictures. Oh, due date for the November issue is mid August (about August 17). If you are planning to write something or have an idea that you want to pass by us, please email us. Thanks Larry and Nancy Lebofsky > > Good Morning list, > > I for one love to read Martin Altmann's post for all the knowledge and > effort he puts into them! > I believe this one has such good information it should be put in one of > the future Meteorite Magazine. > What do you think Mr. Lebofsky? :-) > > With best regards, > Moni > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sat Jul 11 10:08:42 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:08:42 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] PA fall media hype In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002b01ca0231$196d0a70$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Ehm... shouldn't we find first a piece of that fall at all? Not that this exchange of demonstrations of respect and amenities will have been in the end about nothing. ??? From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Sat Jul 11 12:12:54 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:12:54 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Feature Article in Tucson's "Desert Leaf" Message-ID: Thanks Geoff, Just received the magazine! Cool article. Beautiful cover art. I have been curious about Tucson as a city and the magazine has a wealth of info on Tucson. Thanks again, Tom In a message dated 7/2/2009 11:10:07 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, geoking at notkin.net writes: Dear LIstees: The summer issue of Tucson's "Desert Leaf" magazine arrived in town yesterday. The cover story is a feature article on meteorite hunting titled: "Chasing What Falls from the Sky." The article is based on a series of interviews I did with Tucson author Susan Dawson-Cook, and features photos by Leigh Anne DelRay, Caroline Palmer, and myself. "Desert Leaf" is very attractive, ultra-large format publication (think "Life" magazine) measuring 11 x 15 inches, so the photos are big and striking. The layout is excellent -- one of the better meteorite features I've seen in some time. For those of you who might like a copy for your meteorite library, I have a number of extras, and would be happy to mail them to anyone who is interested. If you'd like one, please PayPal me $3.00 domestic, $5.00 Canada, or $9.00 for overseas international Air Mail to cover our mailing costs. Sorry about the high mailing costs, but it's a big magazine and has to go in an oversize padded envelope. My PayPal address is: info at aerolite.org PLEASE do me a favor and include you shipping address in the message area with your payment. Addresses do not always automatically come through with PayPal payments. Also, please try clicking that "PERSONAL" tab when sending your payment, as recommended by one of our colleagues last week, and then maybe we won't have to pay fees on these. After all, I'm not selling a product or service, so that counts are personal, right? : ) If you would like to just read an online version of the article, you can find it here, but their PDF viewer interface is a little clunky: http://npaper-wehaa.com/desert-leaf#vw-1;dblpg -- and -- http://npaper-wehaa.com/desert-leaf#page-32 http://npaper-wehaa.com/desert-leaf#page-34 You scientists will notice a couple of small errors in the piece, but overall, I found it to be well written and enjoyable. Hope you agree. Regards to all, Geoff N. ***************** www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com www.meteoriteblog.org ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823300x1201398714/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) From damoclid at yahoo.com Sat Jul 11 12:28:38 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:28:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Media Fact Sheets Message-ID: <752464.40871.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> While I was out in the field myself, Steve started a thread about handing out fact sheets to the media after a fall. Very good idea. In Mike's thread he complained about the total lack of information that was published on what the locals should look for, instead focusing on the monetary value. We chatted with a number of locals who saw the original fireball or at least heard about it on the news. Of course we were happy to discuss what we were looking for and what they or their friends and neighbors should look for, but a fact sheet would have been great for us to hand out to them too. Since this was/is my first hunt, it would be good to see what he and others come up with. I hope they get posted on all of your various websites and you post the urls here. Thanks and good hunting. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 From marcin at meteoryt.net Sat Jul 11 13:39:00 2009 From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:39:00 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for - Kendleton 1939, TX, USA References: <752464.40871.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006c01ca024e$7a43f8a0$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> Hello I need specimen of Kendleton 1939, TX, USA Thank You -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From damoclid at yahoo.com Sat Jul 11 14:06:32 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 11:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] So this is what its like to hunt a new fall?! Message-ID: <307895.8112.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm just now finished catching up on the recent activity on this list after I've nursed my own sunburn and blisters. I told my girl Sara about the content of the threads here and she suggested it sounds exactly like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hii28qoOt8M She seems to be spot on and I'm struck by how similarities of both kinds of hunting! -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sat Jul 11 14:38:52 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 11:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] So this is what its like to hunt a new fall?! In-Reply-To: <307895.8112.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <652868.19828.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It is a kind of blood sport, gotta have fun with it. I wish we had the greatest meteorite hunter in the world here. He could sure help us in AZ. It hasn't always been this way, we used to have fun with them, but now it is all contracts and publicists, gotta get into character and makeup, more of a business now than good time:) Michael Farmer From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jul 11 15:54:00 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:54:00 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] So this is what its like to hunt a new fall?! In-Reply-To: <307895.8112.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <307895.8112.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 11:06:32 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >I told my girl Sara about the content of the threads here and she suggested it sounds exactly like this: > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hii28qoOt8M I, for one, would welcome the press attention from Mike Farmer and Steve Arnold hunting a strewnfield in white wedding gowns. (Wedding-gown meteorite hunter overlords?) From geoking at notkin.net Sat Jul 11 15:32:13 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 12:32:13 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] So this is what its like to hunt a new fall?! In-Reply-To: <652868.19828.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <652868.19828.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <805337EC-9096-4083-BA4C-578C310EC8D7@notkin.net> Michael Farmer wrote: > but now it is all contracts and publicists, gotta get into > character and makeup, more of a business now than good time:) Dear Mike: Once again you are completely wrong and gassing about things of which you know nothing. We don't wear makeup and, in case you hadn't noticed, our show is a documentary so we don't "get into character." You would play a character in a fictional narrative. Also, we don't have a publicist. The good ratings we got for "Meteorite Men" were the result of our own personal promotional efforts and the hard work of a few trusted friends. We're doing what we love and introducing meteorites to a whole new audience, so it could not possibly be more of a "good time." Yesterday you wrote: "The 'Meteorite Men' show is great, good job, but there is a point to let it go." Thank you, I appreciate the compliment. So why don't YOU "let it go" and stop with the parade of sarcasm and jibes about our work? If you don't like the show, don't watch it. Who cares?! If you have a problem with Steve and me, act like a man and talk to us about it in person. I'm sure the List doesn't want to read this babble back and forth, and I am a busy guy with more important things to do than comment on your snipes. You are a successful meteorite hunter, have made many remarkable finds yourself, and also enjoyed a lot of publicity. It doesn't have to be a contest. Is it impossible for you to enjoy your own achievements without the need to belittle others? I really suggest that you do your own thing and let us get on with doing ours. It's a big planet out there, with lots of meteorites, and lots of opportunities for everyone who wants to do something. How about we just get on with it? Respectfully, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com www.meteoriteblog.org From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 16:17:07 2009 From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:17:07 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] ET sells space rock Message-ID: <6f9da8300907111317v6261788dj4e4ec3a756a52fda@mail.gmail.com> Hi All Looks like ET sold his angrite. http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/multimilliondollar_meteorite_h.html How cool Congrats to ET. Mike Mike Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 USA 720-949-6220 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jul 11 17:55:12 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:55:12 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] ET sells space rock In-Reply-To: <6f9da8300907111317v6261788dj4e4ec3a756a52fda@mail.gmail.com> References: <6f9da8300907111317v6261788dj4e4ec3a756a52fda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:17:07 -0600, you wrote: >Hi All >Looks like ET sold his angrite. >http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/multimilliondollar_meteorite_h.html Not sold yet: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200359364975 From deanbessey at yahoo.com Sat Jul 11 18:59:40 2009 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 15:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo Message-ID: <115955.42429.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I hate to be a party pooper when everybody is all excited about having a photo of a meteor fall but astro mikes photo shown on his webpage here: http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/ Is not exactly all that it is cracked up to be. Reporters are renouned for not properly checking their info in an effort to get a scoupe but somebody deserves a raspberry over this one and at least somebody should have seen this photo for what it is before newspapers started printing it. The greenish streak is a starboard (right) wingtip nav light, the centre red is the rotating anti-collision beacon, and the red streak is the port (left) wingtip nav light. The two brighter white centre lights are the landing lights or maybe white tracking lights depending on what type of aircraft it is. It would have been flying up the photo to the left of the observer. There was a slight wind making the pilot crab into the wind which explains the non perfect parellel lines. The photo has quite a bit of dust and mike needs his CCD chip cleaned. Basically, While he was inside waiting the the long exposure photo to finish an aircraft flew through his image. Cheers DEAN From GeoZay at aol.com Sat Jul 11 19:09:43 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:09:43 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo Message-ID: >>Is not exactly all that it is cracked up to be.<< Well...I' ve been gone these last 3 weeks and had to delete about 800 emails. Looks like I missed a lot of activity. I have to agree with Dean about this photo...looks like an aircraft to me. I got many negatives with the same patterns and I bet many others do to. :O) GeoZay **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Sat Jul 11 19:21:58 2009 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:21:58 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo In-Reply-To: <115955.42429.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <115955.42429.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: That's an interesting assessment, Dean. I have captured numerous aircraft on long exposure and they all have strobes and appear as segmented lines. This one certainly does not, though it may be so close that it is not showing the break in strobes. Either way, it's definitely something to ponder, especially since it could throw a search area off by many, many miles. Mike Bandli -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of dean bessey Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:00 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; deanbessey at yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo I hate to be a party pooper when everybody is all excited about having a photo of a meteor fall but astro mikes photo shown on his webpage here: http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/ Is not exactly all that it is cracked up to be. Reporters are renouned for not properly checking their info in an effort to get a scoupe but somebody deserves a raspberry over this one and at least somebody should have seen this photo for what it is before newspapers started printing it. The greenish streak is a starboard (right) wingtip nav light, the centre red is the rotating anti-collision beacon, and the red streak is the port (left) wingtip nav light. The two brighter white centre lights are the landing lights or maybe white tracking lights depending on what type of aircraft it is. It would have been flying up the photo to the left of the observer. There was a slight wind making the pilot crab into the wind which explains the non perfect parellel lines. The photo has quite a bit of dust and mike needs his CCD chip cleaned. Basically, While he was inside waiting the the long exposure photo to finish an aircraft flew through his image. Cheers DEAN ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From deanbessey at yahoo.com Sat Jul 11 19:32:14 2009 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo Message-ID: <447319.68159.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> --- On Sat, 7/11/09, Mike Bandli wrote: I have captured numerous aircraft on long exposure and they all have strobes and appear as segmented lines. This one certainly does not, though it may be so close that it is not showing the break in strobes > I think the explanation for that is probably that usually you photograph small slow moving aircraft like a cessna while this is a much larger aircraft (Due to all of the light streaks - a small cessna wouldent have as many lights) and was probably moving faster and further away (Although not 30,000 feet as there were landing lights on). Anybody also notice that in the photo the "Meteor" is going up toward space rather than falling like you would expect a meteor to do? Cheers DEAN From damoclid at yahoo.com Sat Jul 11 19:45:20 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:45:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo Message-ID: <487577.40920.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> hey Dean, When I had my amateur observatory in Florida, north of Tampa, I was on the approach path for TPA. I often had streaks like this visible in my images. When I first saw the image I thought "Aircraft. No question." Thanks for the link to his website. Now that I see more data I am convinced of it. Using the Catalina Schmidt to survey for NEOs, I have often see both aircraft and meteors on our images. That telescope's field of view is approximately 3 degrees square, or larger than the chart that the image is overlain on. A larger FOV could have shown other nav lights, which are not visible in his image, even though you state they are visible here. A true bolide would have saturated the entire frame. As for cleaning his chip, either he does not flat field or for some reason he distributed an image that was not flattened. Notice the vignetting around the edges of the frame. That's a result of not flat fielding your images. Since he doesn't flat field his images, I have to question his capabilities as an astro-photographer. Flat fielding is a very basic step when using digital cameras. While I have some quibbles with your email, I agree with you that there is absolutely no doubt that it is an aircraft passing through his field. Meteorite hunters should immediately remove this image from their data set or they risk wasting a lot of time, effort and money trying to track down fragments. Hopefully S&T won't run the image as it will be a bit of an embarrassment if they do. -- Richard Kowalski kowalski at lpl.arizona.edu Catalina Sky Survey Lunar and Planetary Laboratory University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721 From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat Jul 11 19:56:02 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:56:02 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo In-Reply-To: <447319.68159.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <447319.68159.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A592692.2060605@meteoritesusa.com> Hey Dean, List, OK all... Before we get all excited over this. The photo IS in fact 100% a fireball, without a doubt it is a fireball fragmentation. It came from Mike Hankey and he has graciously let me post it on my meteorite blog. There is an explanation of the photo below with links to enhanced images. It is not a plane, though I thought it was when I first looked at it, after careful examination and looking at the hi-res images it is a fireball/bolide event captured in the photo. There are too many streaks large and small for this to be a plane unless that plane is lit up like a Christmas tree. In addition you will notice that toward the bottom of the image the streak get further apart, just as pieces of the fireball would have done during fragmentation... Look at this hi-res image: http://meteoriteblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/meteorjuly62009-watermarked-blog.jpg And this one here which I enhanced to show the streaks a bit clearer: http://meteoriteblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Fireball-Photo-MH-closeup.jpg And this one: http://meteoriteblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Fireball-Photo-Mike-Hankey-.jpg Read the blog post here: http://meteoriteblog.com/fireball-photos-meteor-streaks-through-sky-pa-fireball/ Enjoy... Regards, Eric P.S. Sky & Telescope has asked Hankey to publish the image... dean bessey wrote: > --- On Sat, 7/11/09, Mike Bandli wrote: > I have captured numerous aircraft on long exposure and they all have strobes and appear as segmented lines. This one certainly does not, though it may be so close that it is not showing the break in strobes > > I think the explanation for that is probably that usually you photograph small slow moving aircraft like a cessna while this is a much larger aircraft (Due to all of the light streaks - a small cessna wouldent have as many lights) and was probably moving faster and further away (Although not 30,000 feet as there were landing lights on). > Anybody also notice that in the photo the "Meteor" is going up toward space rather than falling like you would expect a meteor to do? > Cheers > DEAN > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Sat Jul 11 20:12:04 2009 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:12:04 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo In-Reply-To: <4A592692.2060605@meteoritesusa.com> References: <447319.68159.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4A592692.2060605@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <452FC9906D8748D1B326DDA1E0D2E398@Bandli1> Another interesting feature that points to fireball is that the light streaks are not consistent in intensity - like a flickering object. This could be due to over-enhancement, but I don't think so. Every other telescope/long exposure image I can find on the web (of aircraft) shows them like solid bars of light or strobes. Also, it may be my screen, but I cannot see red or blue lights in Hankey's image. A good example of a large plane: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0708/M33airplane_stephan720.jpg or search Google Images for many more. Mike Bandli -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites USA Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:56 PM To: dean bessey; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo Hey Dean, List, OK all... Before we get all excited over this. The photo IS in fact 100% a fireball, without a doubt it is a fireball fragmentation. It came from Mike Hankey and he has graciously let me post it on my meteorite blog. There is an explanation of the photo below with links to enhanced images. It is not a plane, though I thought it was when I first looked at it, after careful examination and looking at the hi-res images it is a fireball/bolide event captured in the photo. There are too many streaks large and small for this to be a plane unless that plane is lit up like a Christmas tree. In addition you will notice that toward the bottom of the image the streak get further apart, just as pieces of the fireball would have done during fragmentation... Look at this hi-res image: http://meteoriteblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/meteorjuly62009-watermar ked-blog.jpg And this one here which I enhanced to show the streaks a bit clearer: http://meteoriteblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Fireball-Photo-MH-closeu p.jpg And this one: http://meteoriteblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Fireball-Photo-Mike-Hank ey-.jpg Read the blog post here: http://meteoriteblog.com/fireball-photos-meteor-streaks-through-sky-pa-fireb all/ Enjoy... Regards, Eric P.S. Sky & Telescope has asked Hankey to publish the image... dean bessey wrote: > --- On Sat, 7/11/09, Mike Bandli wrote: > I have captured numerous aircraft on long exposure and they all have strobes and appear as segmented lines. This one certainly does not, though it may be so close that it is not showing the break in strobes > > I think the explanation for that is probably that usually you photograph small slow moving aircraft like a cessna while this is a much larger aircraft (Due to all of the light streaks - a small cessna wouldent have as many lights) and was probably moving faster and further away (Although not 30,000 feet as there were landing lights on). > Anybody also notice that in the photo the "Meteor" is going up toward space rather than falling like you would expect a meteor to do? > Cheers > DEAN > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 11 20:24:34 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo Message-ID: <46745.94825.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Well one thing for certain this NOT the same perspective which was first posted. Live an learn. Elton --- On Sat, 7/11/09, dean bessey wrote: > From: dean bessey > Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, deanbessey at yahoo.com > Date: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 6:59 PM > > I hate to be a party pooper when everybody is all excited > about having a photo of a meteor fall but astro mikes photo > shown on his webpage here: > http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/ > Is not exactly all that it is cracked up to be. > Reporters are renouned for not properly checking their info > in an effort to get a scoupe but somebody deserves a > raspberry over this one and at least somebody should have > seen this photo for what it is before newspapers started > printing it. > The greenish streak is a starboard (right) wingtip nav > light, the centre red is the rotating anti-collision beacon, > and the red streak is the port (left) wingtip nav light. The > two brighter white centre lights are the landing lights or > maybe white tracking lights depending on what type of > aircraft it is. It would have been flying up the photo to > the left of the observer. There was a slight wind making the > pilot crab into the wind which explains the non perfect > parellel lines. > The photo has quite a bit of dust and mike needs his CCD > chip cleaned. > Basically, While he was inside waiting the the long > exposure photo to finish an aircraft flew through his > image. > Cheers > DEAN > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Sat Jul 11 20:25:41 2009 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:25:41 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo References: <447319.68159.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com><4A592692.2060605@meteoritesusa.com> <452FC9906D8748D1B326DDA1E0D2E398@Bandli1> Message-ID: <1AA98A1B017244CFACD4E29006DBA126@windows9bb74fe> The telescope image is cool and all but I'm diggin' the top one where he's in company with Einstein, Hawking and Galileo....a new hero emerges. Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/nakhladog ------------------ Luck is what happens When Preparation meets talent Mike Hankey, 2009 or Luck is what happens when a light source crosses A random point in space while you are coincidentally Photographing that same random point in space. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bandli" To: "'Meteorites USA'" ; "'dean bessey'" ; Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo > Another interesting feature that points to fireball is that the light > streaks are not consistent in intensity - like a flickering object. This > could be due to over-enhancement, but I don't think so. Every other > telescope/long exposure image I can find on the web (of aircraft) shows > them > like solid bars of light or strobes. Also, it may be my screen, but I > cannot > see red or blue lights in Hankey's image. > > A good example of a large plane: > > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0708/M33airplane_stephan720.jpg > > or search Google Images for many more. > > Mike Bandli > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > Meteorites > USA > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:56 PM > To: dean bessey; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo > > Hey Dean, List, > > OK all... Before we get all excited over this. The photo IS in fact 100% > a fireball, without a doubt it is a fireball fragmentation. It came from > Mike Hankey and he has graciously let me post it on my meteorite blog. > > There is an explanation of the photo below with links to enhanced > images. It is not a plane, though I thought it was when I first looked > at it, after careful examination and looking at the hi-res images it is > a fireball/bolide event captured in the photo. There are too many > streaks large and small for this to be a plane unless that plane is lit > up like a Christmas tree. > > In addition you will notice that toward the bottom of the image the > streak get further apart, just as pieces of the fireball would have done > during fragmentation... > > Look at this hi-res image: > http://meteoriteblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/meteorjuly62009-watermar > ked-blog.jpg > > And this one here which I enhanced to show the streaks a bit clearer: > http://meteoriteblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Fireball-Photo-MH-closeu > p.jpg > > And this one: > http://meteoriteblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Fireball-Photo-Mike-Hank > ey-.jpg > > Read the blog post here: > http://meteoriteblog.com/fireball-photos-meteor-streaks-through-sky-pa-fireb > all/ > > Enjoy... > > Regards, > Eric > > P.S. Sky & Telescope has asked Hankey to publish the image... > > > > > dean bessey wrote: >> --- On Sat, 7/11/09, Mike Bandli wrote: >> I have captured numerous aircraft on long exposure and they all have > strobes and appear as segmented lines. This one certainly does not, though > it may be so close that it is not showing the break in strobes >> >> I think the explanation for that is probably that usually you photograph > small slow moving aircraft like a cessna while this is a much larger > aircraft (Due to all of the light streaks - a small cessna wouldent have > as > many lights) and was probably moving faster and further away (Although not > 30,000 feet as there were landing lights on). >> Anybody also notice that in the photo the "Meteor" is going up toward > space rather than falling like you would expect a meteor to do? >> Cheers >> DEAN >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From GeoZay at aol.com Sat Jul 11 20:42:10 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 20:42:10 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] (meteorite) Astro Mikes Meteor Photo Message-ID: I still think it's an airplane. If it was a meteor, I'd expect to see perhaps some weak afterglow image of the train snaking in the upper atmosphere. I see no hint of this. Unless the photographer stopped the exposure less than a second after the "meteor's" appearance. The train snakes very fast after a meteor's passage. Probably within 2 seconds. Thru binoculars I don't recall ever not seeing a hint of a train coiling right after the meteor event. GeoZay **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 11 20:46:49 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:46:49 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo Message-ID: Yes, he's wearing a S.T. Command uniform. Not a captain, no braid on sleeves, probably a Starfleet junior officer. Cool! Carl Rob Wesel wrote: >The telescope image is cool and all but I'm diggin' the top one where he's in company with Einstein, Hawking and Galileo....a new hero emerges. _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jul 11 21:58:40 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 20:58:40 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5lgi559vkshr18pe5gmetjt592oo5pfo0m@4ax.com> On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:46:49 -0700, you wrote: > > >Yes, he's wearing a S.T. Command uniform. Not a captain, no braid on sleeves, probably a Starfleet junior officer. Cool! Likely a mistake at the space drycleaners. The guy is clearly a redshirt. Someone needs to Photoshop in Tron Guy.. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&num=100&q=tron%20guy&safe=off&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw From jkellybeatty at comcast.net Mon Jul 13 00:28:38 2009 From: jkellybeatty at comcast.net (Kelly Beatty) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:28:38 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo In-Reply-To: <115955.42429.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <115955.42429.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3665B6C1A0064BEEB3C6F305AB5A86AB@NightSkyGuy> Dean and list... when I first saw Mike's image, my first impression was, "hmm, must have been after fragmentation, because look at all those pieces!" too many to be plane lights, IMHO. also, as I've plotted the photo against a star chart to determine scale, etc, I can tell you that the orientation of the streak set is entirely consistent with the generally west-to-east track derived from the York video. moreover, the set of streaks is only 0.06 degree wide. that's a small angle! geometrically correcting for the photo's azimuth of 62 degrees, if those streaks are lights on a plane at 40,000 feet they'd span only 48 feet. to be on the wingtips of even a midsize airliner (~100 feet), it'd have to have been impossibly higher up. the other thing that caught my attention (besides the vignetting) was the general glow around the set of trails. this halo is consistent with optical scatter from a very bright source (perhaps on slightly dew-covered optics; remember, it was 1 a.m.) and *not* consistent with the relatively dim lights from an airplane. Rich K: you'll have to cut Mike a little slack. he is just starting out in astronomy (last January, in fact). I don't know about you, but my astrophotos weren't nearly this good after having been in the hobby for just 6 months. clear skies, Kelly **************** J. Kelly Beatty Senior Contributing Editor SKY & TELESCOPE 617-416-9991 SkyandTelescope.com From jkellybeatty at comcast.net Mon Jul 13 00:34:46 2009 From: jkellybeatty at comcast.net (Kelly Beatty) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:34:46 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo In-Reply-To: <115955.42429.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <115955.42429.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41EB7C975A794740AE5EBE5ADAB0DF5F@NightSkyGuy> "geometrically correcting for the photo's azimuth of 62 degrees..." sorry, that should be "altitude", not "azimuth" clear skies, Kelly **************** J. Kelly Beatty Senior Contributing Editor SKY & TELESCOPE 617-416-9991 SkyandTelescope.com From damoclid at yahoo.com Sat Jul 11 21:43:12 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo Message-ID: <128208.89388.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> -- On Sun, 7/12/09, Kelly Beatty wrote: > Rich K: you'll have to cut Mike a little slack. he is just > starting out in > astronomy (last January, in fact). I don't know about you, > but my astrophotos > weren't nearly this good after having been in the hobby for > just 6 months. > > > clear skies, > Kelly > Hey Kelly, I certainly did not mean to be overly critical of his images. No question my early work was seriously flawed too, but as you know, dark frames and flats are basic. Most people learn to use dark frames very quickly and flats usually come soon after that. I was just pointing this out. You see a lot of things in images when you are new to this technology that you can't identify, but soon you learn to understand what you see and I have to question someone who is obviously unskilled making such claims... That being said, I have looked at the images a little more critically, or should I say with a little more open mind. I'm not longer entirely convinced that these are aircraft lights and may in fact be fragments from a late stage in the bright flight of the body, after it has begun its break-up. I'll retract my definitive statement that it wasn't the fireball, but I'm going to need a lot more proof that he actually caught it before I will agree that this is an image of the object in question. Cheers -- Richard From jkg2 at cox.net Sat Jul 11 22:05:46 2009 From: jkg2 at cox.net (John Gwilliam) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 19:05:46 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo In-Reply-To: <1AA98A1B017244CFACD4E29006DBA126@windows9bb74fe> References: <447319.68159.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <4A592692.2060605@meteoritesusa.com> <452FC9906D8748D1B326DDA1E0D2E398@Bandli1> <1AA98A1B017244CFACD4E29006DBA126@windows9bb74fe> Message-ID: <20090712020555.JWMW17670.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> And, with the addition of the Star Trek uniform, I think he's on his way to becoming a legend...at least in his own mind anyway. Whether the image proves to be an airplane of a meteor, I've always had a hard time legitimizing people who dress-up like fictional fantasy characters. Best, John Gwilliam At 05:25 PM 7/11/2009, Rob Wesel wrote: >The telescope image is cool and all but I'm diggin' the top one >where he's in company with Einstein, Hawking and Galileo....a new hero emerges. > >Rob Wesel >www.nakhladogmeteorites.com >www.facebook.com/nakhladog >------------------ >Luck is what happens >When Preparation meets talent >Mike Hankey, 2009 > >or > >Luck is what happens when a light source crosses >A random point in space while you are coincidentally >Photographing that same random point in space. > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bandli" >To: "'Meteorites USA'" ; "'dean bessey'" >; >Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 5:12 PM >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo > > >>Another interesting feature that points to fireball is that the light >>streaks are not consistent in intensity - like a flickering object. This >>could be due to over-enhancement, but I don't think so. Every other >>telescope/long exposure image I can find on the web (of aircraft) shows them >>like solid bars of light or strobes. Also, it may be my screen, but I cannot >>see red or blue lights in Hankey's image. >> >>A good example of a large plane: >> >>http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0708/M33airplane_stephan720.jpg >> >>or search Google Images for many more. >> >>Mike Bandli >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites >>USA >>Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 4:56 PM >>To: dean bessey; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo >> >>Hey Dean, List, >> >>OK all... Before we get all excited over this. The photo IS in fact 100% >>a fireball, without a doubt it is a fireball fragmentation. It came from >>Mike Hankey and he has graciously let me post it on my meteorite blog. >> >>There is an explanation of the photo below with links to enhanced >>images. It is not a plane, though I thought it was when I first looked >>at it, after careful examination and looking at the hi-res images it is >>a fireball/bolide event captured in the photo. There are too many >>streaks large and small for this to be a plane unless that plane is lit >>up like a Christmas tree. >> >>In addition you will notice that toward the bottom of the image the >>streak get further apart, just as pieces of the fireball would have done >>during fragmentation... >> >>Look at this hi-res image: >>http://meteoriteblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/meteorjuly62009-watermar >>ked-blog.jpg >> >>And this one here which I enhanced to show the streaks a bit clearer: >>http://meteoriteblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Fireball-Photo-MH-closeu >>p.jpg >> >>And this one: >>http://meteoriteblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Fireball-Photo-Mike-Hank >>ey-.jpg >> >>Read the blog post here: >>http://meteoriteblog.com/fireball-photos-meteor-streaks-through-sky-pa-fireb >>all/ >> >>Enjoy... >> >>Regards, >>Eric >> >>P.S. Sky & Telescope has asked Hankey to publish the image... >> >> >> >> >>dean bessey wrote: >>>--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Mike Bandli wrote: >>>I have captured numerous aircraft on long exposure and they all have >>strobes and appear as segmented lines. This one certainly does not, though >>it may be so close that it is not showing the break in strobes >>> >>>I think the explanation for that is probably that usually you photograph >>small slow moving aircraft like a cessna while this is a much larger >>aircraft (Due to all of the light streaks - a small cessna wouldent have as >>many lights) and was probably moving faster and further away (Although not >>30,000 feet as there were landing lights on). >>>Anybody also notice that in the photo the "Meteor" is going up toward >>space rather than falling like you would expect a meteor to do? >>>Cheers >>>DEAN >>> >>> >>> >>>______________________________________________ >>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>Meteorite-list mailing list >>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> >>-- >>Regards, >>Eric Wichman >>Meteorites USA >>http://www.meteoritesusa.com >>904-236-5394 >> >>______________________________________________ >>http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>Meteorite-list mailing list >>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>______________________________________________ >>http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>Meteorite-list mailing list >>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list John Gwilliam Too many people were born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple. From jkellybeatty at comcast.net Mon Jul 13 01:09:27 2009 From: jkellybeatty at comcast.net (Kelly Beatty) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:09:27 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo In-Reply-To: <128208.89388.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <128208.89388.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: folks... one more thing: I have a copy of Mike's original photo. please go to http://twitpic.com/a2r6y , where I've posted a portion of it. copy it, enlarge it, and examine the two phenomena marked with arrows. there are two very faint streaks well to the lower right of the main set, and there is a streak just to the upper left of the main set that is not moving parallel to the others. how does a plane make streaks like that?? these unusual streaks -- combined with the facts that the photo was taken at the correct time, in the correct portion of the sky, and with the correct motion vector -- make a pretty convincing case for this being a fragmented fireball. clear skies, Kelly **************** J. Kelly Beatty Senior Contributing Editor SKY & TELESCOPE 617-416-9991 SkyandTelescope.com From mpg4444 at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 22:24:09 2009 From: mpg4444 at gmail.com (Michael Groetz) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:24:09 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "a meteorite slammed into the rocket..... " Message-ID: This sounds a bit far fetched to me. Mike http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,27574,25766157-2761,00.html Perth space photographer Ray Palmer displays amazing pictures EXPLODING rockets, monster comets and a sea of storms are all in a night's work for Perth deep-space photographer Ray Palmer. The self-taught cosmotographer, who has dedicated 15 years to capturing images many moons away, will have his work up in lights this month in Northbridge. The highlight of his exhibition at ABD The Gallery in Lake St is a malfunctioning Russian space rocket caught exploding in orbit. Mr Palmer had set up his camera-telescope to take a 30-minute shot of the Southern Cross when a meteorite slammed into the rocket. ``All I could see was these flashing objects like twinkling stars and it was the fuselage and pieces of this space ship spinning in space,'' he said. ``Looking back, it was the most amazing thing I have ever seen.'' Mr Palmer's display comes 400 years after Galileo first pointed a telescope to the stars and on the 40th anniversary of the first moon landing. Samples of Mr Palmer's work can also be seen at http://www.naturespeak.com.au/AstroGallery.htm From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jul 11 23:45:50 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:45:50 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo In-Reply-To: <447319.68159.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <447319.68159.qm@web56107.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I tried to work on the photo a little: http://s313.photobucket.com/albums/ll394/darrengarrison/trails/ From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Sun Jul 12 00:10:55 2009 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 21:10:55 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking to buy collections Message-ID: Hello all If any out there are looking to jump out of the hobby please contact me with a collection list as I am looking to expand. Thanks, Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/nakhladog ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 From damoclid at yahoo.com Sun Jul 12 01:08:05 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 22:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo Message-ID: <589139.81608.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello all, I am retracting my early statements that Astro Mike's image is of an aircraft. He was kind enough to provide me with the original RAW file for me to examine. This allowed me to look at the image at full resolution and at full bit depth. I too own a Canon 20D, which is the camera he used to make his image. By having the original image I could take a closer look at the trails and it is pretty clear to me that he indeed imaged the last stages of the bright flight as the body broke up. I had one last question for him, which concerns the time stamp. The camera encoded 12:03:51, which if I remember correctly marks the beginning of his 181 second exposure. I have asked him to confirm the camera's time is set correctly, but obviously we have no way of knowing the exact moment when the object passed through the field during this long exposure. I am still awaiting his reply. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 From mojave_meteorites at cox.net Sun Jul 12 03:02:07 2009 From: mojave_meteorites at cox.net (Rob Matson) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 00:02:07 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Image of PA/MD bolide passing near M31 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi All, At first I was inclined to believe that the telescopic image recorded by amateur astronomer Mike Hankey [for South Park fans please note that I resisted the urge to refer to Mike as "Mr. Hankey" ;-) ] had to be showing an aircraft rather than a bolide, as Dean Bessey first theorized here. However, there are some problems with the airplane theory, most notably the increasing separation between the trails as you move from the top of the image (higher elevation angle) to the bottom of the image (lower elevation angle). The trail separation increases by more than 20% over the tiny field of view, which for an aircraft would require the plane to be flying almost directly toward or away from the observer. This cannot happen for an aircraft flying anywhere close to level flight. For those trying to track down potential meteorites from this fireball, I hope you haven't been depending too much on the azimuth and elevation information provided by J. Kelly Beatty of S&T. While he (she?) correctly matched up the image's pointing and orientation with the star field surrounding M31, the coordinate grid that is overlaid is very wrong for some reason. The telescope wasn't pointing at elevation 62 degrees. From the Baltimore area, the Andromeda Galaxy is much lower in the sky at 1:06 am on July 6th -- about 27 degrees. The object track at the top of the image passes very close to the 9.3-magnitude Hipparcos star #003223, which was at azimuth 57.0, elevation +27.5 at 1:06 am. When I have some more time, I'll calculate the 3D trajectory from this single frame, since there is enough information in it alone to do so. Suffice to say that the object was almost certainly travelling from NE to SW, heading toward Baltimore from the NE but not quite making it there. --Rob From drtanuki at yahoo.com Sun Jul 12 03:08:55 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 00:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Image of PA/MD bolide passing near M31 Message-ID: <206009.68492.qm@web53107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> List, Does anyone know if there are any reports from airline pilots for this event? Are there East coast air flights during the time frame of this event? Thank you. Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Sun, 7/12/09, Rob Matson wrote: > From: Rob Matson > Subject: [meteorite-list] Image of PA/MD bolide passing near M31 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 4:02 PM > Hi All, > > At first I was inclined to believe that the telescopic > image recorded > by amateur astronomer Mike Hankey [for South Park fans > please note > that I resisted the urge to refer to Mike as "Mr. Hankey" > ;-) ] had > to be showing an aircraft rather than a bolide, as Dean > Bessey first > theorized here. However, there are some problems with the > airplane > theory, most notably the increasing separation between the > trails > as you move from the top of the image (higher elevation > angle) to > the bottom of the image (lower elevation angle). The trail > separation > increases by more than 20% over the tiny field of view, > which for > an aircraft would require the plane to be flying almost > directly > toward or away from the observer. This cannot happen for an > aircraft > flying anywhere close to level flight. > > For those trying to track down potential meteorites from > this > fireball, I hope you haven't been depending too much on the > azimuth > and elevation information provided by J. Kelly Beatty of > S&T. While > he (she?) correctly matched up the image's pointing and > orientation > with the star field surrounding M31, the coordinate grid > that is > overlaid is very wrong for some reason. The telescope > wasn't pointing > at elevation 62 degrees. From the Baltimore area, the > Andromeda Galaxy > is much lower in the sky at 1:06 am on July 6th -- about 27 > degrees. > The object track at the top of the image passes very close > to the > 9.3-magnitude Hipparcos star #003223, which was at azimuth > 57.0, > elevation +27.5 at 1:06 am. When I have some more time, > I'll calculate > the 3D trajectory from this single frame, since there is > enough > information in it alone to do so. Suffice to say that the > object > was almost certainly travelling from NE to SW, heading > toward > Baltimore from the NE but not quite making it there. > > --Rob > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl Sun Jul 12 06:15:45 2009 From: marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl (Marco Langbroek) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:15:45 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes Meteor Streak Photo Message-ID: <4A59B7D1.2030202@wanadoo.nl> > That's an interesting assessment, Dean. I have captured numerous aircraft on > long exposure and they all have strobes and appear as segmented lines. By far not always. As I am on a runway approach to Schiphol, I have captured a lot of them as well. Plenty of images among those similar to this one. So I agree with Dean's assessment. - Marco ----- Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) e-mail: dms at marcolangbroek.nl http://www.dmsweb.org http://www.marcolangbroek.nl ----- From marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl Sun Jul 12 06:26:29 2009 From: marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl (Marco Langbroek) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 12:26:29 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo Message-ID: <4A59BA55.2000606@wanadoo.nl> > there are two very faint streaks well to the lower right of the main set, and > there is a streak just to the upper left of the main set that is not moving > parallel to the others. how does a plane make streaks like that?? Be carefull here. An attitude change of an aircraft can do that (as well as causing the divergence of the set in general). Yet with the more detailed pictures, there is indeed a bit too much of streaks on it, so I am too backing down on my intitial suport of saying definitely "it is an aircraft". Problem with camera's and bright objects however, is always reflections that can create ghost trails. - Marco ----- Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) e-mail: dms at marcolangbroek.nl http://www.dmsweb.org http://www.marcolangbroek.nl ----- From jkellybeatty at comcast.net Sun Jul 12 10:13:59 2009 From: jkellybeatty at comcast.net (Kelly Beatty) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 07:13:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Image of PA/MD bolide passing near M31 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <602C107C02D540E6AE9F079C46DC23F3@NightSkyGuy> folks... Rob Matson wrote: > The object track at the top of the image passes very close to the > 9.3-magnitude Hipparcos star #003223, which was at azimuth 57.0, > elevation +27.5 at 1:06 am. Rob is right! the time-of-day reported by the charting program I used is wrong. the altitude of the streaks is indeed about 27 deg. I haven't checked carefully yet, but that means the trajectory as seen from Freeland, MD, from was more toward NE than ENE (Rob: how did you deduce the reverse of that, NE to SW? seems inconsistent with the York video.) BTW, I'm a "he." ;-) clear skies, Kelly **************** J. Kelly Beatty Senior Contributing Editor SKY & TELESCOPE 617-416-9991 SkyandTelescope.com From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sun Jul 12 08:06:19 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 12 Jul 2009 12:06:19 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Image of PA/MD bolide passing near M31 ... and of J.K. Beatty Message-ID: J.K.B.: wrote: 'BTW, I'm a "he." ;-)' Hello folks, A photo of J.K.B. can be seen here: S&T, August 2009, p. 22 ... so get your copy of this issue, especially because of his article that I mentioned on July 9: "Asteroid Shatters Over Sudan: Catch A Fallen Star" Best from Germany, Bernd From GeoZay at aol.com Sun Jul 12 08:59:27 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:59:27 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo Message-ID: If it's a meteor photographed thru a telescope, where is the fuzzy left overs of its train in the image? Surely the ionized column made by a passing fireball meteoroid would be brite enuf to have some phase of it's image captured by the same telescope and be outside the sharp lines of the streaks? I cannot believe this image is that of a meteor until this dilemma is adequately explained. As for the light being too wide to be that of a light on a plane...could we simply be looking at the overall width of the light being reflected off parts of a plane...such as a wing, fuselage etc. ? George Zay **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) From mpg4444 at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 09:25:59 2009 From: mpg4444 at gmail.com (Michael Groetz) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 09:25:59 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] A "meteorite slammed into a rocket......."? Message-ID: ? This sounds a bit far fetched to me. I would like to see the photo. Mike http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,27574,25766157-2761,00.html Perth space photographer Ray Palmer displays amazing pictures EXPLODING rockets, monster comets and a sea of storms are all in a night's work for Perth deep-space photographer Ray Palmer. The self-taught cosmotographer, who has dedicated 15 years to capturing images many moons away, will have his work up in lights this month in Northbridge. The highlight of his exhibition at ABD The Gallery in Lake St is a malfunctioning Russian space rocket caught exploding in orbit. Mr Palmer had set up his camera-telescope to take a 30-minute shot of the Southern Cross when a meteorite slammed into the rocket. ``All I could see was these flashing objects like twinkling stars and it was the fuselage and pieces of this space ship spinning in space,'' he said. ``Looking back, it was the most amazing thing I have ever seen.'' Mr Palmer's display comes 400 years after Galileo first pointed a telescope to the stars and on the 40th anniversary of the first moon landing. Samples of Mr Palmer's work can also be seen at http://www.naturespeak.com.au/AstroGallery.htm From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 12 10:03:26 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 07:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] looking for a slice of PV Message-ID: <78548.4560.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi and good morning list.Does anyone have a slice of portales valley with nice metal veins in the $500 to $800 forsale? Paypal automatic.Off list please. ?Steve R. Arnold From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sun Jul 12 10:36:52 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 10:36:52 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 12, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_12_2009.html __________________________ **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) From almitt at kconline.com Sun Jul 12 10:28:56 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 10:28:56 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Laws/Ebay In-Reply-To: References: <356032.96369.qm@web56102.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <256FFD1063CE4A1F9F2C49826C342AAB@StarmanPC> Hi Dean, You really shouldn't be a good boy and look the other way. I am with Don Merchant that eBay should refund all the fees. It would be a different story if they contacted you first and let you know what was going on. Closing all your auctions was nothing more than being a big corporate jerk. I'd get on the horn and demand refund for all your cost, phone, listing and time you spent listing the auctions. If they refuse, contact me and I'll give you a way to light a fire under them so you will get results. They need to be brought down on this one. I sold diamonds for a friend on eBay once. A very trusted and well known person to a lot of us. Some of the diamonds were Canadian origin. At that time unknown to me, a certain curator of meteorites in Canada, was watching for violations of illegal exported Canadian meteorites. He turned me over to the Canadian Mounted Police, who asked (nicely) where I got my diamonds from. I was amazed that I would be contacted in this form. I talked to the dealer who handled the whole affair and when they found out who he was and the big diamond family he bought from everyone concerned back way off from us. Apparently they didn't want this getting back to the diamond family. So there are snoops out there. Best and sorry for your misfortune. --AL Mitterling > Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:09:53 -0700 > From: deanbessey at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Laws/Ebay > > > I am reposting this a second time with a new subject line because I am > sure that some people are interested but never read the last posting due > to not being interested in my personal ebay problems enough to bother > opening the dozen't email on the topic > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > I have had 5 people email me privately with a message saying something to > the effect of "Whats up with pearls - and could meteorites be next", so I > will email the group rather than individually? > Answer is be afraid - be very afriad. > Apparantly the laws concerning the export and import of pearls are > "complicated" so ebay has decided to no longer allow them (But there are > still some listed on ebay and the "Trust and saftety" department told me > it would be a security violation to give me this information - because > people might use the info to circumvent those rules) so who the hell knows > what ebay is up to. Even their own employees are kept in the dark > (Presumably for security reasons) > I was told that it is illegal to export pearls from French Polynesia > directlty into the USA (Whats up, has obama got a new dislike for the > french? - if I promise to never ever again use the term French Fry can I > then list tahiti pearls again?) and that I should look into the laws > regarding pearls in my own country before I sell anymore. > So, I am told that conflicting and complicated laws are responsible for > pearls getting prohibited from ebay. > Hmmmmm. Complicacated and conflicting laws? That wouldent also apply to > Meteorites, artifacts, coins, collectibles - not to mention leather pants > (Countries where cows are sacred) or a free press in general in some > countries would it. > Ebay was started to sell laser pointers if I remember correctly. Maybe > eventually thats all that will be allowed again. > Me thinks that people should start diversifying from ebay as quickly and > as much as possible. Paypal to (Nobody has ever had problems with paypal > of course). > I now have 1700 auctions that disapeared and ebay tells me sorry, shit > happens, now just be a good little boy and relist them all again so we can > collect more ebay fees - and if we decide to end them all without telling > you why and keeping all those fees again, well, shit happens. > Spending a lot of time looking for non ebay ways to sell right now > Cheers > DEAN > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?: Spread the word when you add celeb photos to your e-mails. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_celebrity_photos1_072009&cat=celebrity ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From almitt at kconline.com Sun Jul 12 11:01:55 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 11:01:55 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] How far away can a meteor be heard? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Greetings Bernd and all, There is also a phenomenon where a meteor can be heard near the radio frequencies. (I've actually hear this before myself) Of course this has nothing to do with the actual sonic booms that are made when they come down. There might be a possibility that someone along the fall track could have heard the radio frequency and reported it which would throw off triangulation of finding material. Anyway just a note. --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:56 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] How far away can a meteor be heard? Hello List, Here's what Buchwald wrote about the Treysa meteorite fall in 1916: BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Vol. 3, pp. 1232-1235): A mass of 63.28 kg fell April 3, 1916 at 15:25 hrs (14:25 hrs Greenwhich time). Numerous eyewitnesses saw a fireball that moved, in four seconds, with an average (geocentric) velocity of 16.3 km/s in a trajectory inclined 55? to the horizontal from N 15? W to S 15? E. The intensity of the light from the fireball gradually decreased until it disappeared at the unusually low altitude of 16.4 km. The heliocentric velocity was calculated to be 37.5 km/s corresponding to an elliptic orbit within the solar system. Due to fine weather the meteorite was observed from an area 135 km in radius. The whole train, 81 km long, was visible as a whitish band that slowly became blurred until it vanished after 10 minutes. Eyewitnesses within a radius of 50 km heard a detonation a few minutes after the fireball had disappeared, and some witnesses near the end point of the trajectory allegedly observed a black body falling. Good luck to all those trying to hunt it down, Bernd ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sun Jul 12 10:57:14 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 12 Jul 2009 14:57:14 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] How far away can a meteor be heard? Message-ID: Greetings AL and List, "There is also a phenomenon where a meteor can be heard near the radio frequencies." Somehing like this (Peekskill): "While we were not primarily concerned with collecting eyewitness accounts of the fireball that proceeded the Peekskill fall, we did receive many unsolicited reports and some of these noted the presence of electrophonic sounds. The most detailed account that we received was that by Patsy Keith and family who observed the fireball from a car near Altoona, Pennsylvania. The sound was described as a 'crackling sound like that of a sparkler'. The sound lasted for about 10 seconds and was audible for several seconds after the first major fragmentation event." Bernd From cdtucson at cox.net Sun Jul 12 10:40:23 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 7:40:23 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad ending today. Message-ID: <20090712104023.462HL.286916.imail@fed1rmwml33> Folks, Please check out my auctions ending today. Thanks. http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/meteoritemax_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZ -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax From info at mcomemeteorite.it Sun Jul 12 11:04:19 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:04:19 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking to buy collections Message-ID: <4a59fb73.62.d2c.1708045235@webmaildh3.aruba.it> depend to the offer, for my collection I have received a offer of 250.000,00 euro... matteo ----- Original Message ----- Da : "Rob Wesel" A : "Meteorite List" Oggetto : [meteorite-list] Looking to buy collections Data : Sat, 11 Jul 2009 21:10:55 -0700 > Hello all > > If any out there are looking to jump out of the hobby > please contact me with a collection list as I am looking > to expand. > > Thanks, > > Rob Wesel > www.nakhladogmeteorites.com > www.facebook.com/nakhladog > ------------------ > We are the music makers... > and we are the dreamers of the dreams. > Willy Wonka, 1971 > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.org Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 11:28:40 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 11:28:40 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : Collection Sale - Opening the Vaults - Rare Types and Rare Falls Message-ID: Hi Folks! I have done some thinking regarding the direction I want to follow as a personal collector of meteorites. Up until now I have collected many many small pieces while trying to amass a large type collection and collection of witnessed falls. In the future I am concentrating on larger pieces (even if it means having fewer specimens overall for the same budget). I have greatly enjoyed collecting micromounts and it has allowed me to decide what I want to focus on now. So I am opening up my personal collection cabinet and I am selling off a number of my smaller specimens and redundant specimens. This includes some very rare types and historical falls. I don't have multiples of these pieces, so these are first come, first serve. Notes about this sale and these specimens : 1) If you want to see a photo of a particular specimen or group of specimens, let me know and I will snap some photos and email them back promptly. 2) Each micromount specimen comes in a labelled 1.25" gemjar. Larger flat pieces (like slices) will come in a labelled Riker box. Larger, chunkier pieces (like UNWA) will come in a specimen bag with label. 3) Asking price includes shipping to anywhere in the CONUS. Canadian or Overseas shipping will be extra - contact me offlist for a quote. Prices are somewhat flexible and are based on what I paid for the pieces - I am open to fair offers. 4) Each specimen includes the original dealer specimen card, if applicable. Not all specimens come with an original card because not all dealers issue cards. Historical pieces also come with copies of the original sales receipt and any paperwork that came with the specimen. 5) I am open to offers on the whole shebang - this would make a fine starter collection of types or it would be a good way to fill vacancies in a type collection. 6) Contact me offlist at - meteoritemike at gmail.com SALE CATALOGUE : ALH 76009 (L6 chondrite, Allan Hills Antarctica) - larger micro fragments 154mg - $20 Ash Creek (L6 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer, Texas) - 2 fragments (one with crust) - 102mg - $15 Bjurbole (L/LL4 chondrite, witnessed fall) - fragment 400mg - $12 Brahin (Pallasite) - olivine crystals - 490mg - $8 Carancas (H4-5 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer) - fragment - 119mg - $10 Claxton (L6 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer, Georgia) - small mini-slice - 200mg - $85 Ensisheim (LL6 chondrite, witnessed fall) - tiny frag and dust - ~1mg - $15 Holbrook (L/LL6 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer, Arizona) - 480mg crusted fragment - $15 Lafayette (Martian Nakhlite) - micro speck 1mg - $50 L'Aigle (L6 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer) - fragment 11mg - $25 Moss (Carbonaceous CO3.6, witnessed fall, hammer) - small fragments ~20mg - $15 Murchison (Carbonaceous CM2, witnessed fall, hammer) - 110mg fragment. - $50 New Orleans (H5 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer, Louisiana) - micro fragments 54mg - $25 Norton County (Aubrite, witnessed fall, Kansas) - two fragments - 200mg - $15 NWA 515 (L6 chondrite) - small fragment - 960mg - $5 NWA 801 (Carbonaceous Chondrite CR2) - 2 tiny fragments 25mg - $8 NWA 998 (Martian Nakhlite) - vial of tiny fragments - 10mg - $10 NWA 1459 (Olivine Diogenite) - micro fragment - 2mg - $10 NWA 2629 (Olivine Diogenite) - fragment - 250mg - $15 NWA 2634 (Ureilite) - micro fragment - 30mg - $10 NWA 2737 (Martian Chassignite) - micro fragment - 4mg - $10 NWA 2828 (EL chondrite) - fragment - 53mg - $8 NWA 2968 (Dunite/achondrite ungrouped) - 1mg - $20 NWA 3151 (Brachinite) - micro slice - 214mg - $25 NWA 4439 (Carbonaceous CO3.3) - fragment with cut face - ~200mg - $10 NWA 4524 (L4 chondrite) - 334mg microslice - $8 NWA 4934 (Howardite) - micro fragment - 18mg - $8 NWA 5054 (L5 chondrite, provisional) - fragment - 150mg - $6 NWA 5511 (LL5 chondrite, provisional) - small slice - 500mg - $8 Pallasovka (Pallasite) - unoxidized metal matrix frags and olivine frags - ~3 gr - $12 Park Forest (L5 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer, Illinois) - 250mg micro slice - $55 Peekskill (H6 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer, New York) - 172mg micro slice - $75 Shalka (Diogenite, witnessed fall) - 3mg tiny fragments - $10 Sylacauga (H4 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer, Hodges Stone) - micro speck ~1mg - $100 Tagish Lake (Carbonaceous C2-UNG, witnessed fall) - fragment - 60mg - $50 Tamdakht (H5 chondrite, witnessed fall) - crusted fragment 970mg - $10 Tulia(b) (L6 chondrite, Texas) - tiny fragment - 127mg - $8 UNWA - aesthetic slice with polished face and thick crust - 32gr - $20 UNWA - whole stone, VERY FRESH crust w/ contraction cracks and thumbprints - 80.5gr - $75 Weston (H4 chondrite, witnessed fall, hammer, Connecticut) - micro fragments - 15mg - $20 Willamette (Iron Shale, Oregon) - micromount - 43mg - $15 Zagami (Martian shergottite, witnessed fall) - good fragments - ~40mg - $30 Impactites : Aouelloul Glass (Mauritania) - 2.04 gr individual - $20 Chicxulub Crater (Yucatan Peninsula) - microscope slide of KT-boundary micro-tektites - $40 Decaturville Impact Structure (Missouri) - 136gr endcut of monomict impact breccia - $20 Ries Crater (Germany) - 62gr "flaedle" impact glass bomb - $25 Rochechouart Crater (France) - 108gr slice of pseudotachylite - $20 Rubielos de la C?rida Impact Basin (Spain) - 70gr endcut of polymict fallback breccia - $25 Sudbury Impact Basin (Canada) - 682gr large shattercone - $50 Sudbury Impact Basin (Canada) - 60gr slice of Black Onaping suevite - $25 Wanapitei Lake (Sudbury) - 110gr endcut of suevite fallback breccia - $20 Wells Creek Crater (Tennessee) - 194gr dolomitic shatter cone sample - $25 ----------------------------------------------------- END OF SALE LIST. PS - I have auctions running on eBay, take a look - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle ..................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jul 12 12:47:31 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 09:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Warning about ebay con-man Stan Turecki Message-ID: <174105.82977.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/carols.auction.stuff This seller is Stan, note selling meteorites and laser equipment. This is one of the worst con-men I have ever seen, he has spent time in prison for stealing laser equipment from his own university in Florida, and has stolen HUNDREDS of thousands of $$$ in meteorites from many list members, French, Italian, German, Russian, American etc. He has stolen nearly a million $ from other laser people who have contacted me. He stole a $5000 meteorite slice from Jim Strope and I. I have police reports I can send if you want to see them. I see that some list members are buying from this thief! You are likely buying stolen meteorites. The IMCA seem powerless to stop Stan, so I am warning the list. If you support this criminal, then you can please stop buying from me. Michael Farmer From damoclid at yahoo.com Sun Jul 12 13:04:46 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 10:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A "meteorite slammed into a rocket......."? Message-ID: <352925.74417.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Which photo are you referring to Mike, the "exploding rocket"? http://www.thecosmicartgallery.com/Southern%20Cross_Phenomenon.php Much of his imagery seem rather gaudily colored to me and over saturated, but some are pretty good. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 --- On Sun, 7/12/09, Michael Groetz wrote: > From: Michael Groetz > Subject: [meteorite-list] A "meteorite slammed into a rocket......."? > To: "Meteorite List" > Date: Sunday, July 12, 2009, 6:25 AM > ? This sounds a bit far fetched to > me. I would like to see the photo. > Mike > > http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,27574,25766157-2761,00.html > > Perth space photographer Ray Palmer displays amazing > pictures > > EXPLODING rockets, monster comets and a sea of storms are > all in a > night's work for Perth deep-space photographer Ray Palmer. > > The self-taught cosmotographer, who has dedicated 15 years > to > capturing images many moons away, will have his work up in > lights this > month in Northbridge. > > The highlight of his exhibition at ABD The Gallery in Lake > St is a > malfunctioning Russian space rocket caught exploding in > orbit. > > Mr Palmer had set up his camera-telescope to take a > 30-minute shot of > the Southern Cross when a meteorite slammed into the > rocket. > > ``All I could see was these flashing objects like twinkling > stars and > it was the fuselage and pieces of this space ship spinning > in space,'' > he said. ``Looking back, it was the most amazing thing I > have ever > seen.'' > > Mr Palmer's display comes 400 years after Galileo first > pointed a > telescope to the stars and on the 40th anniversary of the > first moon > landing. > > Samples of Mr Palmer's work can also be seen at > http://www.naturespeak.com.au/AstroGallery.htm > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sun Jul 12 13:07:32 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:07:32 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Image of PA/MD bolide passing near M31 Message-ID: In a message dated 7/12/2009 2:02:18 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mojave_meteorites at cox.net writes: >From the Baltimore area, the Andromeda Galaxy is much lower in the sky at 1:06 am on July 6th -- about 27 degrees. The object track at the top of the image passes very close to the 9.3-magnitude Hipparcos star #003223, which was at azimuth 57.0, elevation +27.5 at 1:06 am Rob, While I got Cs in geometry in High School and didn't even get into the advanced math beyond that, I do try to figure some things out. HOWEVER, I don't claim to be an expert. I did visit Mike Haney and his scope the other day. His base of his telescope was level to the ground and I took a piece of paper long ways and rested it on the base, with the right corner of the paper at the lower point of the scope, then I made a mark up the left side of the paper at the angle where the scope was pointing up. I made a line from that left mark down to the right corner and with a borrowed carpenter's square on site, it read roughly 17 degrees elevated. In the field I am not interested in getting the math perfect, and realizing that his photo didn't show the end of the fireball, and I knew others with more exacting measurements could work out the more exact numbers later. But when I saw the 67 degree number, I knew that was way off from where he had the scope set up. Maybe it was pointed much higher up and he was mistaken when he showed it to me, or maybe others were wrong. Also, in my amateur sleuthing, we turned the scope to look at the cap his gazebo had. The cap occupied 1/2 of the field of vision. Holding my arm outstretched and holding my thumb up, with me standing beside the scope, my thumb nail was about the same size as the cap. So this told me (I think) that the field of vision he was capturing in his photo compared to the entire sky was about twice the size of my thumb nail at the size on my stretched out arm. A tiny little zone. Again, I am not good with math, but logic would tell me that if it was the fireball in his photo, that the fireball would have been in his camera's scope's field of view for an extremely tiny fraction of one second. Unlike an airplane that might be in a field for many seconds. To me, I imagined that the "bumpy" looks in the light lines might have been from "non oriented pieces" tumbling as they are flying in, and as the different sized faces of the rocks are revealed as it crosses, the light gets slightly brighter (or wider) then not over and over. Again, I am not an expert with airplanes but it would seem those would be steady all the way, and maybe blink on and off throughout the photo. On a different note, Mike Haney has a VERY nice house. There might be some poking fun at him in an S.T. costume, but he is obviously a very successful young man. He had some really cool Star Wars collectibles in a case that many of us would love to have to hold our meteorites. I would guess he has a nicer house than probably 99.9% of the people on this list. Not that financial success may mean a whole lot in this case. I am just saying this because I don't want people to think of him as a "goofy kid." I was very impressed with him, and he seemed like a very sharp, intelligent and successful man. Just some of my observations from the field. Steve Arnold of Meteorite Men **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sun Jul 12 13:45:02 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:45:02 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] New Arizona Meteorite Fall 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/New-Arizona-Meteorite-fall-2009.html __________________________ Michael Johnson http://www.spacerocksinc.com http://www.rocksfromspace.org http://www.sikhote-alin.org **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) From mojave_meteorites at cox.net Sun Jul 12 14:22:30 2009 From: mojave_meteorites at cox.net (Rob Matson) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 11:22:30 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Image of PA/MD bolide passing near M31 In-Reply-To: <602C107C02D540E6AE9F079C46DC23F3@NightSkyGuy> Message-ID: Hi Kelly and List, > I haven't checked carefully yet, but that means the trajectory > as seen from Freeland, MD, from was more toward NE than ENE (Rob: > how did you deduce the reverse of that, NE to SW? seems > inconsistent with the York video.) I hadn't yet seen the York video, nor did I know which way that camera was pointed. If you assume the fragment tracks were running very close to parallel (like I erroneously did) then the bolide would have to have been approaching Baltimore since it's the only way for the tracks to increase their separation while getting lower in elevation. But now that I've seen the York video, you are correct -- the direction was from SW to NE, and the fragments are dispersing at a considerable angle from each other. > BTW, I'm a "he." ;-) Sorry about not taking 10 seconds to do a Google search, where I could have removed that ambiguity. ;-) I try to be careful to cover the bases, particularly when it comes to making assumptions about names in male-dominated fields. The good news is that all I need to compute a precise bolide flight azimuth are accurate coordinates for Mike. You'll then have a search line, which I can further narrow down using the York video. --Rob From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 12 16:15:00 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:15:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] new arizona meteorite/ freebies (AD) Message-ID: <416273.74238.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.It was a great pics of the day with?Dr. Jack and his assistant getting work done on the new meteorite.Again congrats jack on a job well done.I have 4 new meteorites to givaway.I will tell you what they are when you chime in.Be fast or be last. ?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sun Jul 12 16:12:12 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:12:12 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Image of PA/MD bolide passing near M31 Message-ID: In a message dated 7/12/2009 1:22:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mojave_meteorites at cox.net writes: I hadn't yet seen the York video, nor did I know which way that camera was pointed. Rob, The York Water Company video was facing roughly NE and I measured the burn out to be at 88 to 90 degrees, almost due east of that point of the camera on the map. Steve Arnold of "Mike Farmer hates me" fame **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Sun Jul 12 16:17:25 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:17:25 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] new arizona meteorite/ freebies (AD) In-Reply-To: <416273.74238.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <416273.74238.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <93C5637D-2130-4404-9D24-028C5AEEC8BD@comcast.net> Dr Hill is not his assistant but a scientist! Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 12, 2009, at 1:15 PM, steve arnold wrote: > > Hi list.It was a great pics of the day with Dr. Jack and his > assistant getting work done on the new meteorite.Again congrats jack > on a job well done.I have 4 new meteorites to givaway.I will tell > you what they are when you chime in.Be fast or be last. > Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Sun Jul 12 16:24:21 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:24:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Image of PA/MD bolide passing near M31 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <89FBB497-1B8F-42D1-A8D5-E78B73DDEED8@comcast.net> I don't hate you so don't be childish. I said you were milking the meteorite men thing so hard it makes younlook stupid. Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 12, 2009, at 1:12 PM, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/12/2009 1:22:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > mojave_meteorites at cox.net writes: > I hadn't yet seen the York video, nor did I know which way that > camera was pointed. > > > Rob, > > The York Water Company video was facing roughly NE and I measured > the burn > out to be at 88 to 90 degrees, almost due east of that point of the > camera > on the map. > > Steve Arnold > of "Mike Farmer hates me" fame > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 > Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > yExcfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From marcin at meteoryt.net Sun Jul 12 16:04:42 2009 From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:04:42 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] PolandMET site update References: <6f9da8300907111317v6261788dj4e4ec3a756a52fda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <01e701ca032b$ff17d730$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> Hello List. I have again some new meteorites on my site. . NWA 2698 [HOW] - new slices . NWA 4438 [L3.1] - last specimens, new lower price . NWA 5205 [LL3.2] - New slices with incredible large chondruls . NWA 5497 [L3.6] - New type 3 with good price. . NWA 5499 [PAL] - New pallasite from Morocco!!! . NWA 5505 [CO3] - New CO3 with weathering like on newly found Kainsaz CO3 :) . NWA 5506 [CO3] - . NWA 5507 [L3.2] - New full slices . D'Orbigny [Angrite] - New slices . MILLBILLILLIE [AEUC] - complete specimens . ZAKLODZIE [E-Ach] - World Class Complete Full Slices . Meteorite Stamp 2008 - New stamp from Congo !!! Story about this stamp is funny. I Have few of them in Ensisheim. When Mike Farmer look at it, he told me that there are photos from his web site showing his Imilac and Glorietta, stolen photos, used without permission :D But anyway, becouse meteorites on photos have no name, this help identify at least two of them. Good price for resellers :D and as usual, NEXT MEGA BIG FALL IN POLAND GGGggggggrrrrrrr.......... -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sun Jul 12 16:37:48 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:37:48 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Image of PA/MD bolide passing near M31 Message-ID: In a message dated 7/12/2009 3:25:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, meteoritehunter at comcast.net writes: I don't hate you so don't be childish. I said you were milking the meteorite men thing so hard it makes younlook stupid. Sent from my iPhone Michael ********* Mike, You are probably right that you don't hate me. I stand corrected. You, know Mike, if you weren't so consumed with my business, and all my ebay listings and how I sign my name at the end of each of my emails, you probably wouldn't have caught how I signed my name on that last email! You really should just "get over it" like Geoff said. Some might say your behavior makes, how did you just say it... "younlook stupid." Steve Arnold of "Mike Farmer is jealous of me" fame **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sun Jul 12 16:38:59 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 12 Jul 2009 20:38:59 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5205 Message-ID: Hello List, Marcin wrote: "NWA 5205 [LL3.2] - New slices with incredible large chondrules" In Ensisheim, I purchased one of these NWA 5205 slices that Marcin is offering. I can assure you this is an awesome meteorite with chondrules sitting "bumper to bumper" and quite a few bleached chondrules (aka as 'bull's eye chondrules), some with indentations! Best wishes, Bernd From MeteorHntr at aol.com Sun Jul 12 16:59:26 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:59:26 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Warning to armchair fireball chasers Message-ID: Hello List, I have just had some great off list correspondence with Dave Ghessling over at FallingRocks.com. He, like a gentleman, expressed off list with me a concern that I had mistakenly lumped the Georgia Fireball of this year in with the group of events that has revealed some of the so called "armchair fireball chasers." I want to state on the record that I was mistaken. That it seems I was wrong, and that the only offers made in Georgia were by people on the ground in Georgia and not via others long distance. And in no way did I intend to implicate him personally in any wrong doing. In fact, I want to go so far as to say that I personally don't think there is anything wrong with people going public with making purchase offers. Of course I don't think one should claim to offer, for example, $10,000 for the first one pound rock, unless they are indeed willing and able to follow through with such an offer. I know different people have different opinions on this topic. I agree that those types of public offers can create problems in the field, but not making those public offers can also create problems (namely, fewer local people out looking). I personally don't currently make those kind of offers, but I don't stand in judgement against people who do. My whole intent of that post was to just let people know, when they do talk to people, such as the person who talked to Mike Hankey, long distance and over the phone, and asked him not to share his information with anyone else... those kinds of things can get repeated, and in the case of the Baltimore Sun, they can make the front page news. That's all. My post wasn't in opposition to or in support of chasing meteorites from home. I hope this clears this up. My apologies to Dave and to anyone else that might have taken my comment of the Georgia event incorrectly. I also want to thank Dave for being a stand up guy and talking to me directly about this and not going behind my back and bad mouthing me to others. And I want to thank Dave for taking this to me personally first instead of taking the opportunity to post publicly something that was so easily taken care of privately. I appreciate gentlemen like him in this business who act as such. Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" (ha, what are you looking for this time Mike?) **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sun Jul 12 17:08:46 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:08:46 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] How far away can a meteor be heard? References: Message-ID: <62A06E8F018F43B997F0F855C39A2FBD@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, Al, List, The electrophonic sounds of meteors are not at the radio carrier wave frequencies. They are at the frequency of sound waves, except that they are EMF waves instead of acoustic pressure waves. The electrophonic sounds that people hear are the acoustic waves ("sounds") produced by natural objects stimulated by those EMF waves to vibrate at acoustical frequencies. They can be heard over radios, but they are much more easily picked up by feeding an antenna signal directly into an audio amplifier (with the widest possible range of frequency acceptance), thus translating low frequency EMF waves directly into sounds of the same frequency. As these are very long wavelengths, the best antenna is about 400 meters of copper wire, isolated from ground, and strung out in a line across your back pasture (or other open area), but any really big linear array will do. Other natural phenomena that produce plasma trails in the atmosphere, like lightning, also produce EMF waves at these frequencies. With a rig as described above, you can hear big lightning strikes from half way around the planet. They're often of very distinctive types ("whistlers"). The directly received EMF signals of meteors are the same sounds are described by observers from indirect natural electrophonic reception, like "bacon frying." Actually, lightning produces those same electrophonic sounds, like "bacon frying," before an up-strike. If you're close enough to hear lightning's electrophonic sounds, you are in a very bad place to be. Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 9:57 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] How far away can a meteor be heard? > Greetings AL and List, > > "There is also a phenomenon where a meteor can be heard near the radio > frequencies." > > Somehing like this (Peekskill): > > "While we were not primarily concerned with collecting eyewitness > accounts of the fireball > that proceeded the Peekskill fall, we did receive many unsolicited > reports and some of these > noted the presence of electrophonic sounds. The most detailed account > that we received was > that by Patsy Keith and family who observed the fireball from a car > near Altoona, Pennsylvania. > The sound was described as a 'crackling sound like that of a > sparkler'. The sound lasted for about > 10 seconds and was audible for several seconds after the first major > fragmentation event." > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bencubbin at hotmail.com Sun Jul 12 17:05:49 2009 From: bencubbin at hotmail.com (Howard Steffic) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:05:49 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] new arizona meteorite/ freebies (AD) In-Reply-To: <416273.74238.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <416273.74238.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: FYI, Steve........ Dr. "Jack", as you call him, is a Dentist. I would bet he has a dental assistant but that is not her in the photo. PS...... please send me all your free meteorites and that will help you save on postage with only one package to ship. Howard Steffic > Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:15:00 -0700 > From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] new arizona meteorite/ freebies (AD) > > > Hi list.It was a great pics of the day with Dr. Jack and his assistant getting work done on the new meteorite.Again congrats jack on a job well done.I have 4 new meteorites to givaway.I will tell you what they are when you chime in.Be fast or be last. > Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From mlblood at cox.net Sun Jul 12 17:15:48 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:15:48 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] IN ADDITION TO Astro Mikes meteor streak Photo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Kelly, I am confident it is an error on your part, but your Computer clock is set AT LEAST 12 hrs fast (all your emails Show up at after 9PM TONIGHT, meaning, they all sit at the Top of all emails, like spammers often do to get you to read Their stuff first. I usually "Delete" all email that does that, but Noticed yours was from the list, so, I did not. However, it still Screws up reading the list postings in chronological order. Would you be so kind as to set your computer clock to the Correct time so this does not happen? Thanks, so much, Michael On 7/12/09 10:09 PM, "Kelly Beatty" wrote: > folks... > > one more thing: I have a copy of Mike's original photo. please go to > http://twitpic.com/a2r6y , where I've posted a portion of it. copy it, enlarge > it, and examine the two phenomena marked with arrows. > > there are two very faint streaks well to the lower right of the main set, and > there is a streak just to the upper left of the main set that is not moving > parallel to the others. how does a plane make streaks like that?? > > these unusual streaks -- combined with the facts that the photo was taken at > the correct time, in the correct portion of the sky, and with the correct > motion vector -- make a pretty convincing case for this being a fragmented > fireball. > > > clear skies, > Kelly > > **************** > J. Kelly Beatty > Senior Contributing Editor > SKY & TELESCOPE > 617-416-9991 > SkyandTelescope.com > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Sun Jul 12 18:07:20 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:07:20 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Image of PA/MD bolide passing near M31 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <712C9DEC-8864-4504-937D-3F073751A8DD@comcast.net> Sorry typing in the field not n my best attribute. Steve, I am soooo not jealous of you. Keep thinking that though if it helps you sleep at night. I said what others were to afraid to say. This endless pumping of the whole show has gone from pride (deserved) to prostitution. You used up the "Brenham Steve" name while pumping that meteorite into failure so bad that some of your investors can't give it away on eBay. Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 12, 2009, at 1:37 PM, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/12/2009 3:25:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > meteoritehunter at comcast.net writes: > I don't hate you so don't be childish. > I said you were milking the meteorite men thing so hard it makes > younlook stupid. > > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > ********* > Mike, > > You are probably right that you don't hate me. I stand corrected. > > You, know Mike, if you weren't so consumed with my business, and > all my > ebay listings and how I sign my name at the end of each of my > emails, you > probably wouldn't have caught how I signed my name on that last > email! > > You really should just "get over it" like Geoff said. > > Some might say your behavior makes, how did you just say it... > "younlook > stupid." > > Steve Arnold > of "Mike Farmer is jealous of me" fame > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 > Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > yExcfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Sun Jul 12 18:11:01 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:11:01 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Warning to armchair fireball chasers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <80C72B12-0112-4EF7-91DF-FFEDC17B68A7@comcast.net> Steve if you want to bring me Into your every email the I can play. Now we can both drop it tha would be ok Michael Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 12, 2009, at 1:59 PM, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > Hello List, > > I have just had some great off list correspondence with Dave > Ghessling > over at FallingRocks.com. > > He, like a gentleman, expressed off list with me a concern that I had > mistakenly lumped the Georgia Fireball of this year in with the > group of events > that has revealed some of the so called "armchair fireball chasers." > > I want to state on the record that I was mistaken. That it seems I > was > wrong, and that the only offers made in Georgia were by people on > the ground > in Georgia and not via others long distance. And in no way did I > intend to > implicate him personally in any wrong doing. > > In fact, I want to go so far as to say that I personally don't > think there > is anything wrong with people going public with making purchase > offers. > Of course I don't think one should claim to offer, for example, > $10,000 for > the first one pound rock, unless they are indeed willing and able > to follow > through with such an offer. > > I know different people have different opinions on this topic. I > agree > that those types of public offers can create problems in the field, > but not > making those public offers can also create problems (namely, fewer > local > people out looking). > > I personally don't currently make those kind of offers, but I don't > stand > in judgement against people who do. > > My whole intent of that post was to just let people know, when they > do > talk to people, such as the person who talked to Mike Hankey, long > distance > and over the phone, and asked him not to share his information with > anyone > else... those kinds of things can get repeated, and in the case of > the > Baltimore Sun, they can make the front page news. > > That's all. My post wasn't in opposition to or in support of chasing > meteorites from home. > > I hope this clears this up. My apologies to Dave and to anyone > else that > might have taken my comment of the Georgia event incorrectly. > > I also want to thank Dave for being a stand up guy and talking to me > directly about this and not going behind my back and bad mouthing > me to others. > And I want to thank Dave for taking this to me personally first > instead of > taking the opportunity to post publicly something that was so > easily taken > care of privately. > > I appreciate gentlemen like him in this business who act as such. > > Steve Arnold > of "Meteorite Men" > (ha, what are you looking for this time Mike?) > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 > Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > yExcfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 18:26:49 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:26:49 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Image of PA/MD bolide passing near M31 In-Reply-To: <712C9DEC-8864-4504-937D-3F073751A8DD@comcast.net> References: <712C9DEC-8864-4504-937D-3F073751A8DD@comcast.net> Message-ID: Please, please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who. We are here today to witness the union of two young people in the joyful bond of the holy wedlock. Unfortunately, one of them, my son Herbert, has just fallen to his death. But I think I've not lost a son, so much as... gained a daughter! For, since the tragic death of her father-- ---> He's not quite dead! Since the near fatal wounding of her father... ---> He's getting better! For, since her own father... who, when he seemed about to recover, suddenly felt the icy hand of death upon him,... Sorry about that. For some reason that line about "let's not bicker and argue about who killed who" popped into my head as I read this continued exchange... We now we return to the Wide World of Sports MetList coverage. On 7/12/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > Sorry typing in the field not n > my best attribute. Steve, I am soooo not jealous of you. Keep thinking > that though if it helps you sleep at night. > I said what others were to afraid to say. This endless pumping of the > whole show has gone from pride (deserved) to prostitution. You used > up the "Brenham Steve" > name while pumping that meteorite into failure so bad that some of > your investors can't give it away on eBay. > > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Jul 12, 2009, at 1:37 PM, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > >> In a message dated 7/12/2009 3:25:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >> meteoritehunter at comcast.net writes: >> I don't hate you so don't be childish. >> I said you were milking the meteorite men thing so hard it makes >> younlook stupid. >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> Michael >> >> ********* >> Mike, >> >> You are probably right that you don't hate me. I stand corrected. >> >> You, know Mike, if you weren't so consumed with my business, and >> all my >> ebay listings and how I sign my name at the end of each of my >> emails, you >> probably wouldn't have caught how I signed my name on that last >> email! >> >> You really should just "get over it" like Geoff said. >> >> Some might say your behavior makes, how did you just say it... >> "younlook >> stupid." >> >> Steve Arnold >> of "Mike Farmer is jealous of me" fame >> >> **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 >> Easy >> Steps! >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377098x1201454399/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul >> yExcfooterNO62) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 19:14:06 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:14:06 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] A note about the Paypal - personal transaction "exploit" Message-ID: Hi List, Recently there was some discussion the List about a new policy by PayPal allowing people to send money as a "personal gift" instead of the usual commercial transaction - thus skipping the fee. I just wanted to make people aware of an issue regarding this practice. If you send money using this "personal" method, then the transaction is not eligible for PayPal shipping. PayPal figures that since it's a gift or money transfer that is personal, then there is no need to ship a package - so there is no available option to print a shipping label and use PayPal to pay for the postage. This means the seller saves the small fee, but then has to make a trip to the Post Office instead of putting the package in the mailbox on the front porch for the mail carrier to pickup. For the small potatoes people like myself, I don't mind paying the PayPal fees - it's part of the game. Heck, what is 3 or 4% of $20 anyway? Now, the bigger dealers who are selling multiple pieces worth hundreds or thousands of dollars each, may take a different view of fees. Plus, intentionally skirting the fee system by conducting commercial transactions via the personal method is a violation of PayPal's TOS. (Terms of Service) - it can jeopardize your PayPal business or premiere account. So my advice to dealers who are contemplating this method as a means to conduct business is - think again and consider if it's worth risking your PayPal account and having to make extra trips to the post office. I don't want any particular person to think this is in response to something they said or did. I've had a couple of trading partners recently inquire about this method - thinking they might be doing me a favor by suggesting it. I politely decline - I'd rather pay the modest fee and be able to track the package from my desktop using PayPal shipping. Heck, I don't do enough transactions to be tempted by the idea in the first place. :) Best regards, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From mlblood at cox.net Sun Jul 12 19:33:47 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:33:47 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] A note about the Paypal - personal transaction "exploit" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Mike & all, The feeless transfer of $ SHOULD be restricted to loans, Gifts, etc. That is what it is intended for and the policies make It clear. I send $ to my daughter every month and this just means She doesn't have to loose some of the $ I am sending to help with Her education. If people start abusing this you can be sure it will be removed As an option. Most of the problems this country is dealing with are The result of our culture becoming amoral - especially where $ is Concerned. Sex - I don't consider that a problem, except that people Don't always "protect" themselves - so, "amoral" is not a reference To sex - it is primarily a reference to MONEY. DO NOT try to rip off PayPal. They provide a valuable service To the internet community - thereby to the meteorite community, and Their fees are not outrageous. (I do think 1.5 to 2% would be more Appropriate, but at least they are not like credit cards that look for Ways to rip you off every possibly way. My 2c Michael On 7/12/09 4:14 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" wrote: > Hi List, > > Recently there was some discussion the List about a new policy by > PayPal allowing people to send money as a "personal gift" instead of > the usual commercial transaction - thus skipping the fee. I just > wanted to make people aware of an issue regarding this practice. If > you send money using this "personal" method, then the transaction is > not eligible for PayPal shipping. PayPal figures that since it's a > gift or money transfer that is personal, then there is no need to ship > a package - so there is no available option to print a shipping label > and use PayPal to pay for the postage. This means the seller saves > the small fee, but then has to make a trip to the Post Office instead > of putting the package in the mailbox on the front porch for the mail > carrier to pickup. For the small potatoes people like myself, I don't > mind paying the PayPal fees - it's part of the game. Heck, what is 3 > or 4% of $20 anyway? Now, the bigger dealers who are selling multiple > pieces worth hundreds or thousands of dollars each, may take a > different view of fees. > > Plus, intentionally skirting the fee system by conducting commercial > transactions via the personal method is a violation of PayPal's TOS. > (Terms of Service) - it can jeopardize your PayPal business or > premiere account. So my advice to dealers who are contemplating this > method as a means to conduct business is - think again and consider if > it's worth risking your PayPal account and having to make extra trips > to the post office. > > I don't want any particular person to think this is in response to > something they said or did. I've had a couple of trading partners > recently inquire about this method - thinking they might be doing me a > favor by suggesting it. I politely decline - I'd rather pay the > modest fee and be able to track the package from my desktop using > PayPal shipping. Heck, I don't do enough transactions to be tempted > by the idea in the first place. :) > > Best regards, > > MikeG > From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sun Jul 12 19:26:26 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 12 Jul 2009 23:26:26 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5205 ... another heads-up Message-ID: Hey folks, .. just in case you haven't read that (yet): Petrography (J. Wittke and T. Bunch, NAU): Polymict breccia with a wide range in chondrule size (0.3 to 11.1 mm). Several igneous-textured, non-chondritic enstatite objects (2 - 7.5 mm) are also present. A few very unusual FeS - Fe oxide- bearing veins (< one mm thick and > 2.8 cm in length) transcend a 6.5 x 2.6 cm slice. Chondrule mesostasis is nearly free of devitrification. Olivine in type II chondrules is strongly zoned. Weathering grade is W3 and the shock level is S2/3. I just acquired the 5.67 g slice and the 5.41 g slice. Also wanted the 4.93 g slice but it was already sold. Congratulations to the happy person who got that one. It's got a very dark, horseshoe-like (carbonaceous?) inclusion in the 3 o'clock position! Cheers from the happy owner of three of these extraordinary slices Bernd From Impactika at aol.com Sun Jul 12 19:52:03 2009 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 19:52:03 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5205 ... another heads-up Message-ID: Thank you Bernd for the free advertising! Yes, it is a very interesting chondrite. And I already bought a very slice, thank you Marcin. And it is presently being cut into Thin-Sections. I should have them in the next few weeks. Thanks again! Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 7/12/2009 5:38:17 PM Mountain Daylight Time, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de writes: Hey folks, .. just in case you haven't read that (yet): Petrography (J. Wittke and T. Bunch, NAU): Polymict breccia with a wide range in chondrule size (0.3 to 11.1 mm). Several igneous-textured, non-chondritic enstatite objects (2 - 7.5 mm) are also present. A few very unusual FeS - Fe oxide- bearing veins (< one mm thick and > 2.8 cm in length) transcend a 6.5 x 2.6 cm slice. Chondrule mesostasis is nearly free of devitrification. Olivine in type II chondrules is strongly zoned. Weathering grade is W3 and the shock level is S2/3. I just acquired the 5.67 g slice and the 5.41 g slice. Also wanted the 4.93 g slice but it was already sold. Congratulations to the happy person who got that one. It's got a very dark, horseshoe-like (carbonaceous?) inclusion in the 3 o'clock position! Cheers from the happy owner of three of these extraordinary slices Bernd **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) From marcin at meteoryt.net Sun Jul 12 20:03:03 2009 From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:03:03 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] A note about the Paypal - personal transaction "exploit" References: Message-ID: <00b301ca034d$4af53730$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> Hi I had to send 1300$ few days ago, so I send first 300$ for test as a personal transfer and this realy was for free and person get 300$ without any fees. Then I send 1000$ and it add me (not the receiver) 10$ not matter if I send it as a gift or other option. Strange. Anyway I better use normall transfers becouse PayPal can have his own humors ... -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From marcin at meteoryt.net Sun Jul 12 20:17:42 2009 From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 02:17:42 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5205 ... another heads-up References: Message-ID: <00c401ca034f$576ea850$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> Thanks Bernd, yep this chondrite is one of the best type 3 I bough in Morocco. Unfortunatelly most of fragments are ugly, melted, dark-brown with low ammount of chondruls. What is interesting here is that this chondruls was plastic? so they deform their surface one to each other. Chondruls are big and most of them have similar size 1.5-2mm. But I have also other slices (Will post few photos tomorrow) that consist also only from chondruls but they are 0.5-1mm. This looks identical to slices from my page, the only difference is that chondruls are much much smaller. I still have many fragments uncut so maybe I will find specimen with all 3 types of matrix. Good night. -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From damoclid at yahoo.com Sun Jul 12 21:04:03 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 18:04:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A note about the Paypal - personal transaction "exploit" Message-ID: <435387.60966.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Sun, 7/12/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > ... This means the > seller saves > the small fee, but then has to make a trip to the Post > Office instead > of putting the package in the mailbox on the front porch > for the mail > carrier to pickup. Why can't you leave the package in your mailbox? If you buy your postage on the USPS website, you get a discount on postage, you can generate a shipping label and arrange to have your carrier pick up the package at your house. Even if you aren't home, you can leave instructions for the carrier on where to find the package on the order. -- Richard From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun Jul 12 21:12:33 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:12:33 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] A note about the Paypal - personal transaction "exploit" In-Reply-To: <435387.60966.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <435387.60966.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Richard and List, I'm just trying to keep it simple. I already have a PayPal account, but I don't have a USPS account. So I'd rather keep it consolidated under one website. :) Best regards and clear skies, MikeG PS - what part of North Tampa did you live in? I am near Lutz now. On 7/12/09, Richard Kowalski wrote: > > --- On Sun, 7/12/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks > wrote: > >> ... This means the >> seller saves >> the small fee, but then has to make a trip to the Post >> Office instead >> of putting the package in the mailbox on the front porch >> for the mail >> carrier to pickup. > > Why can't you leave the package in your mailbox? > > If you buy your postage on the USPS website, you get a discount on postage, > you can generate a shipping label and arrange to have your carrier pick up > the package at your house. Even if you aren't home, you can leave > instructions for the carrier on where to find the package on the order. > > -- > Richard > > > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From astroroks at hotmail.com Sun Jul 12 21:23:40 2009 From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:23:40 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A note about the Paypal - personal transaction "exploit" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all.... I think I will soon test this type of payment. I won goods recently from a N.Y.er attempted to pay the correct way buy after he refunded the transfer, he requested that I use the transfer funds with my paypal account. After accepting the monies, he vanished. Pulled the item, no email, and no telephone. I am working with paypal and ebay, but am afraid that since the proper payment was bypassed, I'll be out of luck with their $200 guarantee. We'll see. Guess it's best to go by the rules. Dennis > Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 16:33:47 -0700 > From: mlblood at cox.net > To: meteoritemike at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A note about the Paypal - personal transaction "exploit" > > Hi Mike & all, > The feeless transfer of $ SHOULD be restricted to loans, > Gifts, etc. That is what it is intended for and the policies make > It clear. I send $ to my daughter every month and this just means > She doesn't have to loose some of the $ I am sending to help with > Her education. > If people start abusing this you can be sure it will be removed > As an option. Most of the problems this country is dealing with are > The result of our culture becoming amoral - especially where $ is > Concerned. Sex - I don't consider that a problem, except that people > Don't always "protect" themselves - so, "amoral" is not a reference > To sex - it is primarily a reference to MONEY. > DO NOT try to rip off PayPal. They provide a valuable service > To the internet community - thereby to the meteorite community, and > Their fees are not outrageous. (I do think 1.5 to 2% would be more > Appropriate, but at least they are not like credit cards that look for > Ways to rip you off every possibly way. > My 2c > Michael > > > On 7/12/09 4:14 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" > wrote: > >> Hi List, >> >> Recently there was some discussion the List about a new policy by >> PayPal allowing people to send money as a "personal gift" instead of >> the usual commercial transaction - thus skipping the fee. I just >> wanted to make people aware of an issue regarding this practice. If >> you send money using this "personal" method, then the transaction is >> not eligible for PayPal shipping. PayPal figures that since it's a >> gift or money transfer that is personal, then there is no need to ship >> a package - so there is no available option to print a shipping label >> and use PayPal to pay for the postage. This means the seller saves >> the small fee, but then has to make a trip to the Post Office instead >> of putting the package in the mailbox on the front porch for the mail >> carrier to pickup. For the small potatoes people like myself, I don't >> mind paying the PayPal fees - it's part of the game. Heck, what is 3 >> or 4% of $20 anyway? Now, the bigger dealers who are selling multiple >> pieces worth hundreds or thousands of dollars each, may take a >> different view of fees. >> >> Plus, intentionally skirting the fee system by conducting commercial >> transactions via the personal method is a violation of PayPal's TOS. >> (Terms of Service) - it can jeopardize your PayPal business or >> premiere account. So my advice to dealers who are contemplating this >> method as a means to conduct business is - think again and consider if >> it's worth risking your PayPal account and having to make extra trips >> to the post office. >> >> I don't want any particular person to think this is in response to >> something they said or did. I've had a couple of trading partners >> recently inquire about this method - thinking they might be doing me a >> favor by suggesting it. I politely decline - I'd rather pay the >> modest fee and be able to track the package from my desktop using >> PayPal shipping. Heck, I don't do enough transactions to be tempted >> by the idea in the first place. :) >> >> Best regards, >> >> MikeG >> > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Mon Jul 13 00:06:58 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:06:58 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 13, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_13_2009.html __________________________ **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Mon Jul 13 01:04:54 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:04:54 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Promotion Message-ID: Hello List, I am sending this out without Geoff's review, without his editing and without his approval. The opinions shared below belong solely to me, and do not necessarily reflect on the opinions of this meteorite list, our TV network or our sponsors. :-) Due to much of the feedback I have received, there is a lot of support for what we doing with the TV show and our promotions. There is no shortage of good vibes coming our way. For that I am grateful. Thanks. Of course, most of the people who are close friends of ours are more in on the details of what is happening with us, while others that are more removed might be seeing things from a skewed perspective. Let me take a little time to explain the journey I have been on, much of which includes Geoff as well. Back when Phil and I found the Brenham Main Mass in 2005, we hired Geoff Notkin to help us with a press release and with fielding media inquiries that the buzz was creating. I have not had much experience with professional full time public relations experts, so I don't know what they are all capable of, but in my opinion, what Geoff did was outstanding. With a carefully crafted press release, and with him manning the phones and the emails, we got some very good coverage of that find. In Public Relations, it is my opinion that it is not an exact science. While some things lead to another, often it is a combination of things that lead to other breakthroughs. I think it is more a strategy of "throwing as much mud up as possible on the barn wall and see what sticks." One can send out 100 press releases, but it might just be one place that runs with it, then like a wild fire it can take off...or it can still fizzle out. Here is how our story went. With the Brenham Main Mass find, we sent out a press release, that led to the ABC affiliate in Wichita wanting to air it as their the story of the night live. Since they used a satellite uplink to broadcast it live from near the find location, it was open for all the other networks to rebroadcast it. The Weather Channel ran a blurb on it about 3 am the next morning. Then the NBC Today show did a live broadcast with me that weekend. The newspaper story in the Wichita Eagle paper might have had a contribution to the Today Show being interested because as that took off on the AP and via the Drudge Report (and it's 10,000,000 viewers a day) so that first print story end up running in over 300 papers world wide. The Today Show led to a couple other things. And we continued to pursue the idea of the story of the find to be featured in a TV show. We contacted Discovery, History Channel, Nat Geo, Science Channel and some other obscure networks, all with no avail. Then seemingly "out of the blue" Travel Channel called us. Travel Channel? What in the world would the Travel Channel want to do with a meteorite story? Sure, the meteorite traveled a long way to get here, but still? Well, the producer told us they were making a show that was about treasure hunting where families could do what the host does and have a real shot of finding something worth money, and they loved the Brenham story. I cautioned them that what we were doing at Brenham really isn't what the average family could do on the weekend to make money, and the producer quickly shot back "Oh, we know that, but this story is so cool we want to do it anyway." The way the production company found out about us, wasn't initially from the other media, but from someone in the meteorite world that tipped them off. But I am sure that the previous media reports helped establish our legitimacy as a good story. In the mean time WIRED Magazine ran a feature story on me that lead to a segment with Geoff and myself on the pilot TV show of WIRED Science on PBS. That led to the L.A. Times doing a front page story about me. Then the morning the L.A. Times story ran, Ruth Riven, an executive producer at LMNO Productions in L.A., sat down to breakfast and opened her newspaper. Ruth read the story and thought "Hey, maybe a TV series about meteorite hunting could work?" And she contacted me. Now, leading up to that, Geoff and I were pumping different angles for TV promotion. After doing the Cash and Treasures program, we thought we could do a TV series, at least we wanted to give it a shot. We talked with the field producer of the Cash and Treasures program, and he liked the idea. Well, he at least said he liked the idea, and the idea was put on the back burner until our episode actually aired 8 months later. After our episode ran (and re-ran) with the 15 other first season shows, we were told the Meteorite Hunting episode consistently did double the ratings of what all the other shows did, and that the whole series itself was a hit. For some time there, Cash and Treasures was one of Travel Channel's anchor shows. After the ratings came back, Indigo, the production company who made Cash and Treasures, all of a sudden really DID like the idea of a pitching Meteorite Hunter's series to different networks. So off they went to pitch it. I am convinced they did their best, but for whatever reason, their best wasn't good enough. Maybe it was just timing. Who knows? So, after being disappointed with a dead end once again, the call from the LMNO producer in L.A. seemed to come "out of the blue," and she asked me if I had ever thought about doing a TV series? I asked her if she saw Geoff and I as guests on the Travel Channel, and she had not. We told her about it, and that in fact, Geoff and I had given it a LOT of thought about doing a TV series. We told her that the other production company had pitched it, with no success, but she and her boss still though it was a good idea, and they had a lot of conviction that they could make a pitch that might be bought. Meanwhile, Geoff had kept plugging away "throwing mud up on the wall" every chance we could get. We were also trying to promote the sale of the Brenham Main Mass directly and eventually at auction during all this time. So Geoff and I gathered all our ideas together and sent them over to Ruth. They sent a producer to the 2008 Tucson Gem show to get some tape of us. They used that to throw together a 5 minute "pitch DVD" to send to the different networks. Three networks were interested enough to meet with us in person. So, about this time last year, Geoff and I flew to Washington D.C. to meet with executives of the 3 different networks. We came home to hear two were interested and one very interested. The Science Channel made the production company the best offer, so our production company made the deal for the pilot. A deal was struck to shoot a pilot with it being open that we might do a series if the pilot went well. Last October we shot "Meteorite Men" in the field. Then on May 10, the show aired for the first time. While Geoff and I love the Science Channel, we started to get a little frustrated. They asked for extra footage so a promo commercial could be made. Our production company understood the network was all excited about the show and even decided to run it during sweeps. This was a double edged sword as ALL the other networks were pulling out the stops to run their best shows at the same time and all the others were busy promoting them extensively. We could easily do bad against all that competition, but if we did good, it would look real good. About a week out from the May 10 airing, not a single promo commercial had run on the network. No press release by Science Channel. I don't know, maybe that was their strategy, to toss the "child" in the lake and it would either sink or learn how to swim without any help? In any case, Geoff and I finally realized that if there was going to be any promotion, it would be up to us. Fortunately, G.I.A. did a press release, that probably helped a little that last week before the airing, but it was basically all on us. So we launched an all out attack. We started networking, with friends, family members, our customers, anyone we could. Of course, those of you on the Meteorite List got a front row seat to all of this. In fact, many of you chipped in and helped. You linked our newly launched MeteoriteMen.com site to your sites to help with our Google rankings, and some of you sent out notices to people you know. Geoff had been writing for some time with massively popular Geology.com and they eagerly agreed to assist us in several ways. Some may criticize us over our promotional efforts, but we saw this as our one chance at a series. Pass or Fail. No in between. Actually, there is a bit of an in between. With Science Channel being on cable, they will rerun the pilot show many times whether the series would get picked up or not. But while the one show was nice, we wanted more. We wanted a series. Now we find ourselves 62 days out from the first airing and a few weeks ago we got word that the network was interested in a first season of 30 minute shows. Then they came back and said they wanted 60 minute episodes instead. For those of you who don't know, things in show business travel real slow, with lots of red tape, then all of a sudden they want all their episodes delivered in an almost impossibly short period of time so they can get them up and running generating ad revenue. Well, we are now very close to a signed deal. Everything is agreed upon, and we are waiting for signatures on the paperwork for our first season. Part superstition, and part reason, says announcements shouldn't be made until AFTER the ink dries on the paperwork. But we have known for a little while now that we are heading for a series. So, if anyone out there thinks we are going to let up now on our promotion, you are freaking crazy. If a few competitors get upset with us, well tough. I found myself in Baltimore all of a sudden, chasing this new fireball. Baltimore is just down the street from the international home office for both Science Channel and their parent company Discovery Networks. Are we going to mention the show when reporters talk to us? On a front page story? Hell yes we are! Is that the "only reason" I headed to the northeast? No. I really want to find this rock, if possible. But I also want to get exposure while it is being offered to us on a silver platter. "A rising tide lifts all ships" as the saying goes. Some dealers that like to squeal because they are so "sick of Meteorite Men hype" should realize that their bank accounts are fattened by any good exposure we get. Now some people might argue that the "Meteorite Men" show was a bad show. Or some might feel that it was bad exposure for the industry as a whole. OK. If that is your stance, make your case if you will. But trust me, Geoff and I are not able to capture all of the sales that will come from all the new meteorite collectors that will come in from us being on a series. A series is such a huge step up from a "one off" show. It is my opinion that a TV series could easily bring in 1,000 to 10,000 and maybe even more new collectors over the next several years. If just a tiny fraction of 1% of viewers decide to start collecting meteorites, being a dealer is going to be fun. Yes, there will be more hunters generated at the same time. And there will be more dealers generated as well. But in the past it has seemed like all the dealers were fighting to get a bigger piece of the limited pie. May I suggest that all the dealers stop thinking of getting a bigger piece of the small pie. Let's start thinking about making the pie bigger! How about let's start a bakery and start making pies! Will Geoff and I give it our best shot to capture as many of those new collectors as possible? Of course! In our pilot, I mentioned something about Ebay. I didn't do that by accident. Does it then make sense that I would continue to promote on my Ebay lots as well? But we are under no delusions that we can supply every one of the new collectors with every specimen they will ever want. There will be plenty of business for everyone. The way I see it, this is Geoff and my best, and really our only shot at taking this to a new level. If it doesn't happen now, the odds of us or anyone else getting their own series is really low. It isn't because we are so great, or that anyone else couldn't do it better than us. It is just that it took SO much to build up to this point. For someone else to do what we have done to get to this point, almost 4 years after the Brenham find, is hard to imagine. One reason it has been so hard is because we are breaking new ground. No one has done this before. In fact, the Main Mass find story in the Wichita Eagle got more website hits than any other story in the history of the newspaper! Who would have thought it? The Wichita paper did 4 or 5 follow up meteorite stories, and each one of them got the top hits for the paper for that week, and sometimes for that month. They were all scratching their heads. The Cash and Treasures show, same thing. Wow? Go figure? Then the pilot, against all odds, hit the ball out of the park. If we fail now to get a series, or we get it, and it doesn't continue to do well, it sets a precedent that this new type of show just can't make it. Now, do Geoff and I get all of the credit? Hell no! If it wasn't for hundreds of other people, there is no way this would have happened. In fact, maybe some of you that sent out Facebook and Myspace notices to your friends because we asked you to, might have talked a friend with a Neilson Box on their TV set to watch the show. One Neilson person represents, I don't know maybe 50,000 or 100,000 viewers or something obscene like that in the ratings. I strongly contest any suggestion by anyone that word of mouth "hype" didn't help us. In fact, with a poorly promoted first airing, it is hard to say that anything else did work. So when a certain meteorite dealer comes on this list whining like a little spoiled brat, it almost makes me want to turn it all up a notch just for the fun of it. It is kind of like teasing the monkey at the zoo who throws crap at people. But in the event there really are some of you that are concerned, I have taken the time to write this. Let me address a few other things while we are at it. The "Meteorite Man." In my book, there has only been, and there will only be one "Meteorite Man" and that is the great Bob Haag. One day, when I grow up, I hope to be half the Meteorite Man that Bob is. In fact, if everyone in our business would stop and say "What would Bob do? in whatever situation we are in, we would all be better off. Bob has done more for our industry than anyone else alive. Next to Harvey Nininger, we all owe the most gratitude to Bob for all he has done. It was not Geoff's idea, and it was not my idea to use the name "Meteorite Men" for the show. Understand this, we signed a contract to do the shows before there was any name and before there was any deal with the network. The suits at the Science Network chose this name, not us, and not our production company. In the industry, we are called "talent." (Please no jokes, it is just the term they use.) Geoff and I are not writers, producers, editors or executives, we are the talent. We do not own the show. While we have some input on ideas, and where we want to go to hunt, that is about all. Now, the smart people at the network could have chosen "The Meteorite Peo ple" or "The Meteorite Hunters" (but I think the copyright wasn't available on that one) or "The Meteorite Guys" or "The Meteorite Boys" or the "The Meteorite Boyzzz" or any other name, but they chose "Meteorite Men." Now, when we knew the name was narrowed down to a few options, we ran out and bought all the appropriate URLs just to be safe. When we got word that it was "Meteorite Men" we were ready to build our meteoritemen.com site. And to be honest, Geoff and I are indeed: men. And we are into meteorites. As awkward as "Steve Arnold of Meteorite Men" or "Geoff Notkin co-star of Meteorite Men" may sound, it is who we are and it is the show we are the co-stars of. Speaking of the terms "star" and "co-star" if anyone has a problem with those terms, we don't really have alternatives when it comes to our role in the show. Sorry. That is what we are. We are not "hosts" like Becky Worley was with Cash and Treasures was. We are not "expert guests" like Mini and Laurence were on our pilot. We are not "bit actors" or ones with "supporting roles" as a drama might have. And since we are not acting, we are not "Leading actors" either. It isn't an ego thing. We could be the "stars" of a lousy show. Being a star doesn't mean we are good at it even, just that we are in that role. Now, if we start using the title "super star" you all might want to get concerned for us. I would hope no one gets their panties all in a bunch over something as trivial as that, but just in case I thought I would clear that up. If anyone has a better term to use, please offer it. Unless we get one, "co-star" is probably going to be what stays on our business cards. And as for marketing and using the publicity for profit, all I can say is "God Bless America!" Of course we are going to do that. In fact, I think we haven't done enough of that yet. At least my bank account isn't reflecting that I am doing a good enough of a job of it...yet. Geoff and I made up and sold out of our Brenham part slices in Lucite. We plan on selling other meteorites and things in the near future. In fact, I am about to put some "Meteorite Men" Collectible Limited Edition meteorites up on Ebay very shortly. I was going to hold off on them for a while, but now that I know one brat is "sickened by all the hype" I am almost obligated to do it now. I understand that some of you are so close to the forest that you can't see the trees. Or is it that you are so close to the trees that you can't see the forest? Anyway, you know what I mean. The Meteorite World has heard a lot about "Meteorite Men" the show the last 3 months or so, but 99.9% of the rest of the world hasn't heard anything about it yet. In fact, there were probably more people reading the meteorite story with the mention of the TV show on the front page of the Baltimore Sun on Friday than all the people who have tuned into see the actual show on the 8 times it has run already. Hopefully Science Channel will start promoting the show when the first season starts to air. Hopefully the popularity will take on a life of it's own, and we can sit back and just ride the wave. But we have come too far to quit promoting now. I know this has been a long post, and thanks for bearing with me through it. If any of you have any other concerns, feel free to write me off list and I will be happy to address them. Thanks, Steve Arnold of Meteorite Men **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585090x1201462820/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jul 13 02:39:19 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:39:19 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:04:54 EDT, you wrote: >But in the past it has seemed like all the dealers were fighting to get a >bigger piece of the limited pie. > >May I suggest that all the dealers stop thinking of getting a bigger piece >of the small pie. Let's start thinking about making the pie bigger! How >about let's start a bakery and start making pies! > Since the "pies" are meteorites, I am interested in hearing your plans for making more of them. I would suggest a small probe loaded with Von Neumann nanobots be launched to a convenient comet, where they would manufacture fusion rockets to be used for steering the comet into a chosen NEA. A major break-up event should cause quite an influx of meteorites over the next few hundred thousand years-- the drawback being that they will all be of the same type. I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. From mikewren at gilanet.com Mon Jul 13 02:08:21 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:08:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I always liked pecan pies the best... hey in this new bakery that we are starting-can we make a lot of pecan pies? Michael Cottingham On Jul 12, 2009, at 11:39 PM, Darren Garrison wrote: > On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:04:54 EDT, you wrote: > >> But in the past it has seemed like all the dealers were fighting >> to get a >> bigger piece of the limited pie. >> >> May I suggest that all the dealers stop thinking of getting a >> bigger piece >> of the small pie. Let's start thinking about making the pie >> bigger! How >> about let's start a bakery and start making pies! >> > > Since the "pies" are meteorites, I am interested in hearing your > plans for > making more of them. I would suggest a small probe loaded with Von > Neumann > nanobots be launched to a convenient comet, where they would > manufacture fusion > rockets to be used for steering the comet into a chosen NEA. A > major break-up > event should cause quite an influx of meteorites over the next few > hundred > thousand years-- the drawback being that they will all be of the > same type. > > I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From drtanuki at yahoo.com Mon Jul 13 02:57:50 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:57:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Promotion Message-ID: <809971.83438.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Great! Bake sales to sponsor meteorite hunt. --- On Mon, 7/13/09, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Promotion > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 3:39 PM > On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:04:54 EDT, you > wrote: > > >But in the past it? has seemed like all the > dealers were fighting to get a > >bigger piece of the? limited pie.? > > > >May I suggest that all the dealers stop thinking > of? getting a bigger piece > >of the small pie.? Let's start thinking about > making? the pie bigger!? How > >about let's start a bakery and start making? > pies! > > > > Since the "pies" are meteorites, I am interested in hearing > your plans for > making more of them.? I would suggest a small probe > loaded with Von Neumann > nanobots be launched to a convenient comet, where they > would manufacture fusion > rockets to be used for steering the comet into a chosen > NEA.? A major break-up > event should cause quite an influx of meteorites over the > next few hundred > thousand years-- the drawback being that they will all be > of the same type. > > I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your > newsletter. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From drtanuki at yahoo.com Mon Jul 13 03:06:23 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:06:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Meteor Men Epidsode 1 Message-ID: <167229.74562.qm@web53111.mail.re2.yahoo.com> List, Perhaps the alternative? Is this a coincidence? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqxA6-Ji70M&NR=1 Enjoy or not, Dirk Ross...Tokyo From damoclid at yahoo.com Mon Jul 13 03:21:50 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Meteor Men Epidsode 1 Message-ID: <670397.6089.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> So which one of you two is Captain Meteor? I guess that's Steve and Geoff must be "The Norseman" since he makes the ladies "Uncomfortably hot"... -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 --- On Mon, 7/13/09, drtanuki wrote: > From: drtanuki > Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Meteor Men Epidsode 1 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 12:06 AM > > List,? > Perhaps the alternative? Is this a coincidence? > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqxA6-Ji70M&NR=1 > > Enjoy or not, Dirk Ross...Tokyo > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From parkforestmet at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 05:13:57 2009 From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 04:13:57 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Spam > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:04:54 -0400 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Promotion > > Hello List, > > I am sending this out without Geoff's review, without his editing and > without his approval. The opinions shared below belong solely to me, and do > not necessarily reflect on the opinions of this meteorite list, our TV > network or our sponsors. :-) > > Due to much of the feedback I have received, there is a lot of support for > what we doing with the TV show and our promotions. There is no shortage > of good vibes coming our way. For that I am grateful. Thanks. > > Of course, most of the people who are close friends of ours are more in on > the details of what is happening with us, while others that are more > removed might be seeing things from a skewed perspective. > > Let me take a little time to explain the journey I have been on, much of > which includes Geoff as well. > > Back when Phil and I found the Brenham Main Mass in 2005, we hired Geoff > Notkin to help us with a press release and with fielding media inquiries > that the buzz was creating. I have not had much experience with professional > full time public relations experts, so I don't know what they are all > capable of, but in my opinion, what Geoff did was outstanding. > > With a carefully crafted press release, and with him manning the phones > and the emails, we got some very good coverage of that find. In Public > Relations, it is my opinion that it is not an exact science. While some things > lead to another, often it is a combination of things that lead to other > breakthroughs. > > I think it is more a strategy of "throwing as much mud up as possible on > the barn wall and see what sticks." One can send out 100 press releases, > but it might just be one place that runs with it, then like a wild fire it > can take off...or it can still fizzle out. > > Here is how our story went. With the Brenham Main Mass find, we sent out > a press release, that led to the ABC affiliate in Wichita wanting to air it > as their the story of the night live. Since they used a satellite uplink > to broadcast it live from near the find location, it was open for all the > other networks to rebroadcast it. The Weather Channel ran a blurb on it > about 3 am the next morning. Then the NBC Today show did a live broadcast > with me that weekend. > > The newspaper story in the Wichita Eagle paper might have had a > contribution to the Today Show being interested because as that took off on the AP > and via the Drudge Report (and it's 10,000,000 viewers a day) so that first > print story end up running in over 300 papers world wide. The Today Show > led to a couple other things. And we continued to pursue the idea of the > story of the find to be featured in a TV show. We contacted Discovery, > History Channel, Nat Geo, Science Channel and some other obscure networks, all > with no avail. > > Then seemingly "out of the blue" Travel Channel called us. Travel > Channel? What in the world would the Travel Channel want to do with a meteorite > story? Sure, the meteorite traveled a long way to get here, but still? > > Well, the producer told us they were making a show that was about treasure > hunting where families could do what the host does and have a real shot of > finding something worth money, and they loved the Brenham story. I > cautioned them that what we were doing at Brenham really isn't what the average > family could do on the weekend to make money, and the producer quickly shot > back "Oh, we know that, but this story is so cool we want to do it anyway." > > The way the production company found out about us, wasn't initially from > the other media, but from someone in the meteorite world that tipped them > off. But I am sure that the previous media reports helped establish our > legitimacy as a good story. > > In the mean time WIRED Magazine ran a feature story on me that lead to a > segment with Geoff and myself on the pilot TV show of WIRED Science on PBS. > That led to the L.A. Times doing a front page story about me. Then the > morning the L.A. Times story ran, Ruth Riven, an executive producer at LMNO > Productions in L.A., sat down to breakfast and opened her newspaper. > > Ruth read the story and thought "Hey, maybe a TV series about meteorite > hunting could work?" And she contacted me. > > Now, leading up to that, Geoff and I were pumping different angles for TV > promotion. After doing the Cash and Treasures program, we thought we could > do a TV series, at least we wanted to give it a shot. We talked with the > field producer of the Cash and Treasures program, and he liked the idea. > Well, he at least said he liked the idea, and the idea was put on the back > burner until our episode actually aired 8 months later. > > After our episode ran (and re-ran) with the 15 other first season shows, > we were told the Meteorite Hunting episode consistently did double the > ratings of what all the other shows did, and that the whole series itself was a > hit. For some time there, Cash and Treasures was one of Travel Channel's > anchor shows. > > After the ratings came back, Indigo, the production company who made Cash > and Treasures, all of a sudden really DID like the idea of a pitching > Meteorite Hunter's series to different networks. So off they went to pitch it. > I am convinced they did their best, but for whatever reason, their best > wasn't good enough. Maybe it was just timing. Who knows? > > So, after being disappointed with a dead end once again, the call from the > LMNO producer in L.A. seemed to come "out of the blue," and she asked me > if I had ever thought about doing a TV series? I asked her if she saw Geoff > and I as guests on the Travel Channel, and she had not. We told her about > it, and that in fact, Geoff and I had given it a LOT of thought about > doing a TV series. We told her that the other production company had pitched > it, with no success, but she and her boss still though it was a good idea, > and they had a lot of conviction that they could make a pitch that might be > bought. > > Meanwhile, Geoff had kept plugging away "throwing mud up on the wall" > every chance we could get. We were also trying to promote the sale of the > Brenham Main Mass directly and eventually at auction during all this time. > > So Geoff and I gathered all our ideas together and sent them over to Ruth. > They sent a producer to the 2008 Tucson Gem show to get some tape of us. > They used that to throw together a 5 minute "pitch DVD" to send to the > different networks. Three networks were interested enough to meet with us in > person. So, about this time last year, Geoff and I flew to Washington D.C. > to meet with executives of the 3 different networks. We came home to hear > two were interested and one very interested. The Science Channel made the > production company the best offer, so our production company made the deal > for the pilot. > > A deal was struck to shoot a pilot with it being open that we might do a > series if the pilot went well. Last October we shot "Meteorite Men" in the > field. Then on May 10, the show aired for the first time. > > While Geoff and I love the Science Channel, we started to get a little > frustrated. They asked for extra footage so a promo commercial could be made. > Our production company understood the network was all excited about the > show and even decided to run it during sweeps. This was a double edged sword > as ALL the other networks were pulling out the stops to run their best > shows at the same time and all the others were busy promoting them > extensively. We could easily do bad against all that competition, but if we did good, > it would look real good. > > About a week out from the May 10 airing, not a single promo commercial had > run on the network. No press release by Science Channel. I don't know, > maybe that was their strategy, to toss the "child" in the lake and it would > either sink or learn how to swim without any help? > > In any case, Geoff and I finally realized that if there was going to be > any promotion, it would be up to us. Fortunately, G.I.A. did a press > release, that probably helped a little that last week before the airing, but it > was basically all on us. So we launched an all out attack. We started > networking, with friends, family members, our customers, anyone we could. > > Of course, those of you on the Meteorite List got a front row seat to all > of this. In fact, many of you chipped in and helped. You linked our > newly launched MeteoriteMen.com site to your sites to help with our Google > rankings, and some of you sent out notices to people you know. Geoff had been > writing for some time with massively popular Geology.com and they eagerly > agreed to assist us in several ways. > > Some may criticize us over our promotional efforts, but we saw this as our > one chance at a series. Pass or Fail. No in between. Actually, there is > a bit of an in between. With Science Channel being on cable, they will > rerun the pilot show many times whether the series would get picked up or not. > But while the one show was nice, we wanted more. We wanted a series. > > Now we find ourselves 62 days out from the first airing and a few weeks > ago we got word that the network was interested in a first season of 30 > minute shows. Then they came back and said they wanted 60 minute episodes > instead. For those of you who don't know, things in show business travel real > slow, with lots of red tape, then all of a sudden they want all their > episodes delivered in an almost impossibly short period of time so they can get > them up and running generating ad revenue. > > Well, we are now very close to a signed deal. Everything is agreed upon, > and we are waiting for signatures on the paperwork for our first season. > Part superstition, and part reason, says announcements shouldn't be made > until AFTER the ink dries on the paperwork. But we have known for a little > while now that we are heading for a series. > > So, if anyone out there thinks we are going to let up now on our > promotion, you are freaking crazy. If a few competitors get upset with us, well > tough. > > I found myself in Baltimore all of a sudden, chasing this new fireball. > Baltimore is just down the street from the international home office for > both Science Channel and their parent company Discovery Networks. Are we > going to mention the show when reporters talk to us? On a front page story? > Hell yes we are! > > Is that the "only reason" I headed to the northeast? No. I really want > to find this rock, if possible. But I also want to get exposure while it is > being offered to us on a silver platter. > > "A rising tide lifts all ships" as the saying goes. Some dealers that > like to squeal because they are so "sick of Meteorite Men hype" should realize > that their bank accounts are fattened by any good exposure we get. > > Now some people might argue that the "Meteorite Men" show was a bad show. > Or some might feel that it was bad exposure for the industry as a whole. > OK. If that is your stance, make your case if you will. But trust me, > Geoff and I are not able to capture all of the sales that will come from all > the new meteorite collectors that will come in from us being on a series. > > A series is such a huge step up from a "one off" show. > > It is my opinion that a TV series could easily bring in 1,000 to 10,000 > and maybe even more new collectors over the next several years. If just a > tiny fraction of 1% of viewers decide to start collecting meteorites, being a > dealer is going to be fun. > > Yes, there will be more hunters generated at the same time. And there > will be more dealers generated as well. > > But in the past it has seemed like all the dealers were fighting to get a > bigger piece of the limited pie. > > May I suggest that all the dealers stop thinking of getting a bigger piece > of the small pie. Let's start thinking about making the pie bigger! How > about let's start a bakery and start making pies! > > Will Geoff and I give it our best shot to capture as many of those new > collectors as possible? Of course! In our pilot, I mentioned something about > Ebay. I didn't do that by accident. Does it then make sense that I would > continue to promote on my Ebay lots as well? > > But we are under no delusions that we can supply every one of the new > collectors with every specimen they will ever want. There will be plenty of > business for everyone. > > The way I see it, this is Geoff and my best, and really our only shot at > taking this to a new level. If it doesn't happen now, the odds of us or > anyone else getting their own series is really low. It isn't because we are > so great, or that anyone else couldn't do it better than us. It is just > that it took SO much to build up to this point. For someone else to do what > we have done to get to this point, almost 4 years after the Brenham find, is > hard to imagine. > > One reason it has been so hard is because we are breaking new ground. > > No one has done this before. > > In fact, the Main Mass find story in the Wichita Eagle got more website > hits than any other story in the history of the newspaper! Who would have > thought it? > > The Wichita paper did 4 or 5 follow up meteorite stories, and each one of > them got the top hits for the paper for that week, and sometimes for that > month. They were all scratching their heads. > > The Cash and Treasures show, same thing. Wow? Go figure? > > Then the pilot, against all odds, hit the ball out of the park. > > If we fail now to get a series, or we get it, and it doesn't continue to > do well, it sets a precedent that this new type of show just can't make it. > > Now, do Geoff and I get all of the credit? Hell no! > > If it wasn't for hundreds of other people, there is no way this would have > happened. In fact, maybe some of you that sent out Facebook and Myspace > notices to your friends because we asked you to, might have talked a friend > with a Neilson Box on their TV set to watch the show. One Neilson person > represents, I don't know maybe 50,000 or 100,000 viewers or something > obscene like that in the ratings. > > I strongly contest any suggestion by anyone that word of mouth "hype" > didn't help us. In fact, with a poorly promoted first airing, it is hard to > say that anything else did work. > > So when a certain meteorite dealer comes on this list whining like a > little spoiled brat, it almost makes me want to turn it all up a notch just for > the fun of it. It is kind of like teasing the monkey at the zoo who throws > crap at people. > > But in the event there really are some of you that are concerned, I have > taken the time to write this. > > Let me address a few other things while we are at it. > > The "Meteorite Man." > > In my book, there has only been, and there will only be one "Meteorite > Man" and that is the great Bob Haag. One day, when I grow up, I hope to be > half the Meteorite Man that Bob is. In fact, if everyone in our business > would stop and say "What would Bob do? in whatever situation we are in, we > would all be better off. > > Bob has done more for our industry than anyone else alive. Next to Harvey > Nininger, we all owe the most gratitude to Bob for all he has done. > > It was not Geoff's idea, and it was not my idea to use the name "Meteorite > Men" for the show. Understand this, we signed a contract to do the shows > before there was any name and before there was any deal with the network. > The suits at the Science Network chose this name, not us, and not our > production company. In the industry, we are called "talent." (Please no jokes, > it is just the term they use.) Geoff and I are not writers, producers, > editors or executives, we are the talent. We do not own the show. While we > have some input on ideas, and where we want to go to hunt, that is about > all. > > Now, the smart people at the network could have chosen "The Meteorite Peo > ple" or "The Meteorite Hunters" (but I think the copyright wasn't available > on that one) or "The Meteorite Guys" or "The Meteorite Boys" or the "The > Meteorite Boyzzz" or any other name, but they chose "Meteorite Men." > > Now, when we knew the name was narrowed down to a few options, we ran out > and bought all the appropriate URLs just to be safe. When we got word that > it was "Meteorite Men" we were ready to build our meteoritemen.com site. > > And to be honest, Geoff and I are indeed: men. And we are into > meteorites. As awkward as "Steve Arnold of Meteorite Men" or "Geoff Notkin co-star > of Meteorite Men" may sound, it is who we are and it is the show we are the > co-stars of. > > Speaking of the terms "star" and "co-star" if anyone has a problem with > those terms, we don't really have alternatives when it comes to our role in > the show. Sorry. > > That is what we are. We are not "hosts" like Becky Worley was with Cash > and Treasures was. We are not "expert guests" like Mini and Laurence were on > our pilot. We are not "bit actors" or ones with "supporting roles" as a > drama might have. And since we are not acting, we are not "Leading actors" > either. > > It isn't an ego thing. We could be the "stars" of a lousy show. Being a > star doesn't mean we are good at it even, just that we are in that role. > > Now, if we start using the title "super star" you all might want to get > concerned for us. > > I would hope no one gets their panties all in a bunch over something as > trivial as that, but just in case I thought I would clear that up. If anyone > has a better term to use, please offer it. Unless we get one, "co-star" > is probably going to be what stays on our business cards. > > And as for marketing and using the publicity for profit, all I can say is > "God Bless America!" > > Of course we are going to do that. In fact, I think we haven't done > enough of that yet. At least my bank account isn't reflecting that I am doing a > good enough of a job of it...yet. > > Geoff and I made up and sold out of our Brenham part slices in Lucite. We > plan on selling other meteorites and things in the near future. In fact, > I am about to put some "Meteorite Men" Collectible Limited Edition > meteorites up on Ebay very shortly. I was going to hold off on them for a while, > but now that I know one brat is "sickened by all the hype" I am almost > obligated to do it now. > > I understand that some of you are so close to the forest that you can't > see the trees. Or is it that you are so close to the trees that you can't > see the forest? Anyway, you know what I mean. The Meteorite World has heard > a lot about "Meteorite Men" the show the last 3 months or so, but 99.9% of > the rest of the world hasn't heard anything about it yet. > > In fact, there were probably more people reading the meteorite story with > the mention of the TV show on the front page of the Baltimore Sun on Friday > than all the people who have tuned into see the actual show on the 8 times > it has run already. > > Hopefully Science Channel will start promoting the show when the first > season starts to air. Hopefully the popularity will take on a life of it's > own, and we can sit back and just ride the wave. But we have come too far to > quit promoting now. > > I know this has been a long post, and thanks for bearing with me through > it. > > If any of you have any other concerns, feel free to write me off list and > I will be happy to address them. > > Thanks, > > Steve Arnold > of Meteorite Men > > > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585090x1201462820/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul > yExcfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 From meteoritics at gmail.com Mon Jul 13 06:26:44 2009 From: meteoritics at gmail.com (Bill Hall) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 03:26:44 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Promotion Message-ID: <883a36d30907130326u70bf657cod9b5bc7dfec41864@mail.gmail.com> I say promote away! I would have missed the 1st show without the promotion, and I don't want to miss the next one. Thanks Steve and Geoff!! From drtanuki at yahoo.com Mon Jul 13 07:02:16 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 04:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion Message-ID: <172744.55712.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Bill and List, Me too as I have never watched a better used car salesman or mortician than Steve Arnold. It is amazing how much wind that he can generate, perhaps enough to power a wind farm? Watch Youtube MrSteveArnold.con .; sorry SteveArnoltPMH ? Inside dealer secrets, LOL.? "Be in control of your meteorite decisions and don`t let the dealer make decisions for you"(*note; you are now being controlled).?Hope that you can read the script better next time. Whether it be the government or the conspiracy you will never know. ? Best to you Bill Hall, dirk ross...tokyo Watch Meteor Men http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqxA6-Ji70M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC0Z7MNc5y0&feature=related --- On Mon, 7/13/09, Bill Hall wrote: > > From: Bill Hall > > Subject: [meteorite-list]? Meteorite Men > Promotion > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 7:26 PM > > I say promote away! I would have > > missed the 1st show without the > > promotion, and I don't want to miss the next one. > Thanks > > Steve and > > Geoff!! > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > From GeoZay at aol.com Mon Jul 13 09:17:55 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:17:55 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] (Meteorite)Astro Mike's Meteor Photo Message-ID: I'm still pondering whether this image is that of a meteor or not? Besides questioning the lack of a hint of the "meteors" ionized column afterglow for a case against the image being a meteor, I got to thinking about the width of the "meteor" itself in the image. That is the ionized column or trail of the meteor. The ionized column is produced from both the disintegrating meteoroid and "the shock and awe" to the atmospheric atoms and molecules. The faster and larger the meteoroid, the wider the ionized column. I understand that we are talking about a fireball here. So I'm thinking it should be big. I think JKelly Beatty came up with a likely dimension estimate for the meteor trail, but I no longer have that message to refer to. So I'm just tossing up something that may or may not support his or my case. I've read somewhere in the past that the width of the ionized column of a meteor, with a meteoroid the size of a grain of sand is typically in the neighborhood of about a yard or two. Also the width of the ionized column for a rocky meteoroid of a foot in diameter, should be somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple hundred feet. I'm curious as to what the width of the trail is in this image, if the object was about 45 miles above the earth? Unfortunately I don't possess the math skills to figure this out for myself, but I know some of you out there do. If the answer is considerably less than about 200 feet, I remain even more against the notion that the image is that of a meteor. As for in this detailed photo, it really bugs me to not see a hint of a twisting afterglow of the ionized column...or am I not picking something up here? GeoZay **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) From bmason3 at comcast.net Mon Jul 13 09:25:34 2009 From: bmason3 at comcast.net (Bill Mason) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 08:25:34 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001201ca03bd$676c8d30$3645a790$@net> Last night was the Science / History channel "Meteorite" Part two will be next weekend. Just think of it - if all those meteorites came down the market would go to hell. No more "one with the greatest collection when he dies wins"? No more greed, no more exceptionally high prices and you'd have to look for a new hobby. Bill3 "Rusting" -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of michael cottingham Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 1:08 AM To: cynapse at charter.net Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Promotion I always liked pecan pies the best... hey in this new bakery that we are starting-can we make a lot of pecan pies? Michael Cottingham On Jul 12, 2009, at 11:39 PM, Darren Garrison wrote: > On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:04:54 EDT, you wrote: > >> But in the past it has seemed like all the dealers were fighting >> to get a >> bigger piece of the limited pie. >> >> May I suggest that all the dealers stop thinking of getting a >> bigger piece >> of the small pie. Let's start thinking about making the pie >> bigger! How >> about let's start a bakery and start making pies! >> > > Since the "pies" are meteorites, I am interested in hearing your > plans for > making more of them. I would suggest a small probe loaded with Von > Neumann > nanobots be launched to a convenient comet, where they would > manufacture fusion > rockets to be used for steering the comet into a chosen NEA. A > major break-up > event should cause quite an influx of meteorites over the next few > hundred > thousand years-- the drawback being that they will all be of the > same type. > > I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jul 13 12:03:39 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 11:03:39 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: <172744.55712.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <172744.55712.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 04:02:16 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > Me too as I have never watched a better used car salesman >or mortician than Steve Arnold. Maybe Steve can help fill the terrible vacuum left behind by the tragic loss of Billy Mays. Hi! Steve Arnold here! Has THIS happened to you? You buy a pallasite meteorite and in no time, it starts to rust? Are YOU a victim of Lawrencite disease? Well, never again! Introducing new Brenham meteorites! Genuine Brenham meteorites are pallasites guaranteed never to rust, never to ooze, or YOUR money back! Formed near the core of a long ago destroyed asteroid, genuine Brenham meteorites are shipped out of the farmlands of Kansas in the heart of America-- unlike those foreign meteorites! Made with genuine nickel/iron and olivine, Brenham meteorites will outperform all other pallasites in just sort of sitting there in your display case! But wait-- there's more! Order today, and we will throw in a display stand made of 100% acrylic ABSOLUTELY FREE! And, as a special bonus, you will receive a bent piece of aluminum with "Brenham" written on it, suitable for standing in front of your genuine Brenham meteorite-- ABSOLUTELY FREE! But wait-- if you order within the next hour, we will DOUBLE your offer ABSOLUTELY FREE! For the same low price, receive not one but TWO genuine Brenham meteorites, TWO 100% acrylic stands, and TWO bent pieces of aluminum for the same low price! You pay only shipping and handling for the second genuine Brenham meteorite offer! But don't delay, order today! Supplies are limited! From Midwest at Meteorman.org Mon Jul 13 11:29:25 2009 From: Midwest at Meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:29:25 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion References: <172744.55712.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5A0708698F894AA9AAEDAAA78855073B@den> Darren, Wow, You must watch a lot of commercials. That's a hoot. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion > On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 04:02:16 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >> Me too as I have never watched a better used car salesman >>or mortician than Steve Arnold. > > Maybe Steve can help fill the terrible vacuum left behind by the tragic > loss of > Billy Mays. > > > > Hi! Steve Arnold here! > > Has THIS happened to you? > > You buy a pallasite meteorite and in no time, it starts to rust? > > Are YOU a victim of Lawrencite disease? > > Well, never again! > > Introducing new Brenham meteorites! > > Genuine Brenham meteorites are pallasites guaranteed never to rust, never > to > ooze, or YOUR money back! > > Formed near the core of a long ago destroyed asteroid, genuine Brenham > meteorites are shipped out of the farmlands of Kansas in the heart of > America-- > unlike those foreign meteorites! > > Made with genuine nickel/iron and olivine, Brenham meteorites will > outperform > all other pallasites in just sort of sitting there in your display case! > > But wait-- there's more! > > Order today, and we will throw in a display stand made of 100% acrylic > ABSOLUTELY FREE! > > And, as a special bonus, you will receive a bent piece of aluminum with > "Brenham" written on it, suitable for standing in front of your genuine > Brenham > meteorite-- ABSOLUTELY FREE! > > But wait-- if you order within the next hour, we will DOUBLE your offer > ABSOLUTELY FREE! > > For the same low price, receive not one but TWO genuine Brenham > meteorites, TWO > 100% acrylic stands, and TWO bent pieces of aluminum for the same low > price! > > You pay only shipping and handling for the second genuine Brenham > meteorite > offer! > > But don't delay, order today! > > Supplies are limited! > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Mon Jul 13 11:43:47 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 08:43:47 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: References: <172744.55712.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8F5A5A0D-F782-445A-95C5-7CAA4EB27753@gilanet.com> Hello, Don't forget the limited edition ACTION FIGURES complete with removable vests, metal detectors, and ATV's ! When we see these on ebay we will know for sure it is the "End Times" . I also wonder if Mike Farmer will get an action figure as the "MeteoriteMen's" arch rival! There also might be limited edition Bob Haag and Nininger action figures too! Some of these might actually come with a real meteorite. Michael Cottingham On Jul 13, 2009, at 9:03 AM, Darren Garrison wrote: > On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 04:02:16 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >> Me too as I have never watched a better used car salesman >> or mortician than Steve Arnold. > > Maybe Steve can help fill the terrible vacuum left behind by the > tragic loss of > Billy Mays. > > > > Hi! Steve Arnold here! > > Has THIS happened to you? > > You buy a pallasite meteorite and in no time, it starts to rust? > > Are YOU a victim of Lawrencite disease? > > Well, never again! > > Introducing new Brenham meteorites! > > Genuine Brenham meteorites are pallasites guaranteed never to rust, > never to > ooze, or YOUR money back! > > Formed near the core of a long ago destroyed asteroid, genuine Brenham > meteorites are shipped out of the farmlands of Kansas in the heart > of America-- > unlike those foreign meteorites! > > Made with genuine nickel/iron and olivine, Brenham meteorites will > outperform > all other pallasites in just sort of sitting there in your display > case! > > But wait-- there's more! > > Order today, and we will throw in a display stand made of 100% acrylic > ABSOLUTELY FREE! > > And, as a special bonus, you will receive a bent piece of aluminum > with > "Brenham" written on it, suitable for standing in front of your > genuine Brenham > meteorite-- ABSOLUTELY FREE! > > But wait-- if you order within the next hour, we will DOUBLE your > offer > ABSOLUTELY FREE! > > For the same low price, receive not one but TWO genuine Brenham > meteorites, TWO > 100% acrylic stands, and TWO bent pieces of aluminum for the same > low price! > > You pay only shipping and handling for the second genuine Brenham > meteorite > offer! > > But don't delay, order today! > > Supplies are limited! > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From pshugar at clearwire.net Mon Jul 13 12:09:46 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 11:09:46 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite Men Message-ID: Don't forget the Tee Shirt franchise. Pete From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon Jul 13 12:09:08 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:09:08 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002f01ca03d4$415bb640$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Good heavens, Steve! That reads almost as you'd feel to have to justify for your shows. Absolutely zero need for this. Already in the 19th century it was cognized, that one has to make aware the knowledge about meteorites to an audience as broad as possible, to generate more meteorite finds. Nininger, now celebrated as pioneer and founder of American meteoritics popularized meteorites, Haag brought them to TV... I'd wish to watch such a series here in Germany too. For people getting to know better about meteorites, that meteorites would be held more dear, so that perhaps even the museums and universities would easier receive funds for meteorites, as here in Europe most of them suffered a complete cut-back. Unfortunately I can't receive these channels here and I haven't seen not a single episode :-( Maybe now in summer in Romania, where e.g. discovery is fed in most cable-TV-nets. There I saw once Haag. So the next day half of the kids at school knew what a meteorite is (and what I'm trading). Cheers! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von MeteorHntr at aol.com Gesendet: Montag, 13. Juli 2009 07:05 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Promotion Hello List, I am sending this out without Geoff's review, without his editing and without his approval. The opinions shared below belong solely to me, and do not necessarily reflect on the opinions of this meteorite list, our TV network or our sponsors. :-) From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon Jul 13 12:12:29 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:12:29 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: <8F5A5A0D-F782-445A-95C5-7CAA4EB27753@gilanet.com> References: <172744.55712.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <8F5A5A0D-F782-445A-95C5-7CAA4EB27753@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <003001ca03d4$b90ae710$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> But such figures need also an eeevil counterpart, To fight with - else they would be boring for the children... Any ideas? -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von michael cottingham Gesendet: Montag, 13. Juli 2009 17:44 An: cynapse at charter.net Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion Hello, Don't forget the limited edition ACTION FIGURES complete with removable vests, metal detectors, and ATV's ! When we see these on ebay we will know for sure it is the "End Times" . I also wonder if Mike Farmer will get an action figure as the "MeteoriteMen's" arch rival! There also might be limited edition Bob Haag and Nininger action figures too! Some of these might actually come with a real meteorite. Michael Cottingham From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Mon Jul 13 12:20:22 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:20:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion Message-ID: <395537.37585.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Captain Chondrite is back on the scene stating he wants a piece of the big ole meteorite pie before it is all gobbled up with nonsense. He claims to be the BESTEST meteorite spokesperson in the whole wide world. Captain Chondrite is the man, if he can't get it done, nobody can! Portrait of a real superhero. http://themeteoritesite.com/CaptainChondrite.jpg Take Care, Adam --- On Mon, 7/13/09, michael cottingham wrote: > From: michael cottingham > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion > To: cynapse at charter.net > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 8:43 AM > Hello, > > Don't forget the limited edition ACTION FIGURES complete > with removable vests, metal detectors, and ATV's !? > When we see these on ebay we will know for sure it is the > "End Times" .???I also wonder if Mike Farmer > will get an action figure as the "MeteoriteMen's" arch > rival!? There also might be limited edition Bob Haag > and Nininger action figures too! Some of these might > actually come with a real meteorite. > > Michael Cottingham From mikewren at gilanet.com Mon Jul 13 12:28:16 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:28:16 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: <003001ca03d4$b90ae710$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <172744.55712.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <8F5A5A0D-F782-445A-95C5-7CAA4EB27753@gilanet.com> <003001ca03d4$b90ae710$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Oh, yes, many ideas, but I need to copyright them first! Remember, after all it is about the "bigger pie piece" that we all will be getting! In the meantime, I believe Mike Farmer, although not evil (Most certainly NOT), will make a good rival. In fact, like a lot of these "shows" you need other characters. I believe, if the show "Meteorite Men", goes beyond the original founders and brings in other meteorite hunters, you will actually get greater potential for such a show to educate the public. Michael Cottingham On Jul 13, 2009, at 9:12 AM, Martin Altmann wrote: > But such figures need also an eeevil counterpart, > To fight with - else they would be boring for the children... > > Any ideas? > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > michael > cottingham > Gesendet: Montag, 13. Juli 2009 17:44 > An: cynapse at charter.net > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men > Promotion > > Hello, > > Don't forget the limited edition ACTION FIGURES complete with > removable vests, metal detectors, and ATV's ! When we see these on > ebay we will know for sure it is the "End Times" . I also wonder if > Mike Farmer will get an action figure as the "MeteoriteMen's" arch > rival! There also might be limited edition Bob Haag and Nininger > action figures too! Some of these might actually come with a real > meteorite. > > Michael Cottingham > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jul 13 13:34:43 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 12:34:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: <003001ca03d4$b90ae710$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <172744.55712.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <8F5A5A0D-F782-445A-95C5-7CAA4EB27753@gilanet.com> <003001ca03d4$b90ae710$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:12:29 +0200, you wrote: >But such figures need also an eeevil counterpart, >To fight with - else they would be boring for the children... > >Any ideas? > Well, Steve Arnold has his evil alternate universe namesake, Steve Arnold. His relentless drive to purchase, then give away, every meteorite known to man is a Machiavellian plot to stymie Steve Arnold's Quest for Ultimate Wealth. From mikewren at gilanet.com Mon Jul 13 12:40:59 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:40:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: References: <172744.55712.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <8F5A5A0D-F782-445A-95C5-7CAA4EB27753@gilanet.com> <003001ca03d4$b90ae710$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <0830E57C-F909-413B-B4EA-F003A3D97124@gilanet.com> Then maybe Steve Arnold from Chicago is really the good guy, well because he gives free meteorite's to the needy. Very interesting plot! On Jul 13, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Darren Garrison wrote: > On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:12:29 +0200, you wrote: > >> But such figures need also an eeevil counterpart, >> To fight with - else they would be boring for the children... >> >> Any ideas? >> > > Well, Steve Arnold has his evil alternate universe namesake, Steve > Arnold. His > relentless drive to purchase, then give away, every meteorite known > to man is a > Machiavellian plot to stymie Steve Arnold's Quest for Ultimate Wealth. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jul 13 13:49:08 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 12:49:08 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: <395537.37585.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <395537.37585.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <15sm559npu122210d247g6p59ak404qjno@4ax.com> Also, every line of Action Heroes has to have at least one Babe In Metal Bikini With Gravity Defying Boobs and Improbably Large Sword. For the Meteorite Men line, I would suggest maybe Buzzard Coulee Chick http://blog.silive.com/weather/2008/12/rocks_around_the_coulee.html Or her: http://www.oneinchpunch.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/meteorite-girl.jpg From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon Jul 13 12:59:00 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:59:00 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: <0830E57C-F909-413B-B4EA-F003A3D97124@gilanet.com> References: <172744.55712.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com><8F5A5A0D-F782-445A-95C5-7CAA4EB27753@gilanet.com><003001ca03d4$b90ae710$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <0830E57C-F909-413B-B4EA-F003A3D97124@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <004c01ca03db$384aae60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> And at the end of the plot, they will find out, that they are twins, separated by fate shortly after the birth? Poor Steve! And anyway, they would win an Oscar only, if Hopper the dog will die in the end. And that's really not acceptable. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von michael cottingham Gesendet: Montag, 13. Juli 2009 18:41 An: cynapse at charter.net Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion Then maybe Steve Arnold from Chicago is really the good guy, well because he gives free meteorite's to the needy. Very interesting plot! On Jul 13, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Darren Garrison wrote: > On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:12:29 +0200, you wrote: > >> But such figures need also an eeevil counterpart, >> To fight with - else they would be boring for the children... >> >> Any ideas? >> > > Well, Steve Arnold has his evil alternate universe namesake, Steve > Arnold. His > relentless drive to purchase, then give away, every meteorite known > to man is a > Machiavellian plot to stymie Steve Arnold's Quest for Ultimate Wealth. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From valparint at aol.com Mon Jul 13 12:50:32 2009 From: valparint at aol.com (valparint at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:50:32 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Greatest Meteorite Hunter in the World Message-ID: In a post from July 11, Mr. Farmer writes: "It is a kind of blood sport, gotta have fun with it. I wish we had the greatest meteorite hunter in the world here. He could sure help us in AZ. It hasn't always been this way, we used to have fun with them, but now it is all contracts and publicists, gotta get into character and makeup, more of a business now than good time:)" So, Mike, who is this person? Paul Swartz From garychase at live.com Mon Jul 13 13:02:16 2009 From: garychase at live.com (Gary Chase) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:02:16 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: <395537.37585.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <395537.37585.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Which one would this guy be? http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,6658325,00.jpg G. Chase > Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:20:22 -0700 > From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion > > > Captain Chondrite is back on the scene stating he wants a piece of the big ole meteorite pie before it is all gobbled up with nonsense. He claims to be the BESTEST meteorite spokesperson in the whole wide world. > > Captain Chondrite is the man, if he can't get it done, nobody can! > > Portrait of a real superhero. > http://themeteoritesite.com/CaptainChondrite.jpg > > Take Care, > > Adam > > > --- On Mon, 7/13/09, michael cottingham wrote: > >> From: michael cottingham >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion >> To: cynapse at charter.net >> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 8:43 AM >> Hello, >> >> Don't forget the limited edition ACTION FIGURES complete >> with removable vests, metal detectors, and ATV's ! >> When we see these on ebay we will know for sure it is the >> "End Times" . I also wonder if Mike Farmer >> will get an action figure as the "MeteoriteMen's" arch >> rival! There also might be limited edition Bob Haag >> and Nininger action figures too! Some of these might >> actually come with a real meteorite. >> >> Michael Cottingham > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Bing? finds low fares by predicting when to book. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/travel/deals/airline-ticket-deals.do?form=MTRHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MTRHPG_Travel_Travel_TravelDeals_1x1 From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jul 13 14:13:56 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:13:56 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: <004c01ca03db$384aae60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <172744.55712.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com><8F5A5A0D-F782-445A-95C5-7CAA4EB27753@gilanet.com><003001ca03d4$b90ae710$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <0830E57C-F909-413B-B4EA-F003A3D97124@gilanet.com> <004c01ca03db$384aae60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:59:00 +0200, you wrote: >And anyway, they would win an Oscar only, if Hopper the dog will die in the >end. Ah, but the meteorites will give Meteorite Man the ability to understand what Hopper is saying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76_AvIyFukI&feature=related (starting around 4:15 into this clip, but apparently you can watch the whole movie on Youtube). From mikewren at gilanet.com Mon Jul 13 13:09:56 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:09:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Greatest Meteorite Hunter in the World In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: H.H. Nininger, of course, maybe Skip Ivan Wilson! Michael Cottingham On Jul 13, 2009, at 9:50 AM, wrote: > In a post from July 11, Mr. Farmer writes: > > "It is a kind of blood sport, gotta have fun with it. > I wish we had the greatest meteorite hunter in the world here. > He could sure help us in AZ. It hasn't always been this way, we used > to > have fun with them, but now it is all contracts and publicists, > gotta get > into character and makeup, more of a business now than good time:)" > > So, Mike, who is this person? > > Paul Swartz > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Mon Jul 13 13:10:58 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:10:58 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: <004c01ca03db$384aae60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <172744.55712.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com><8F5A5A0D-F782-445A-95C5-7CAA4EB27753@gilanet.com><003001ca03d4$b90ae710$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <0830E57C-F909-413B-B4EA-F003A3D97124@gilanet.com> <004c01ca03db$384aae60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <0C7E569E-5AF5-4D42-995D-BEEBED72B1A5@gilanet.com> Their town was destroyed by an meteorite impact-that is why they were separated from birth! On Jul 13, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Martin Altmann wrote: > And at the end of the plot, they will find out, that they are twins, > separated by fate shortly after the birth? > > Poor Steve! > > And anyway, they would win an Oscar only, if Hopper the dog will die > in the > end. > > And that's really not acceptable. > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > michael > cottingham > Gesendet: Montag, 13. Juli 2009 18:41 > An: cynapse at charter.net > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men > Promotion > > Then maybe Steve Arnold from Chicago is really the good guy, well > because he gives free meteorite's to the needy. Very interesting plot! > > > On Jul 13, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Darren Garrison wrote: > >> On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:12:29 +0200, you wrote: >> >>> But such figures need also an eeevil counterpart, >>> To fight with - else they would be boring for the children... >>> >>> Any ideas? >>> >> >> Well, Steve Arnold has his evil alternate universe namesake, Steve >> Arnold. His >> relentless drive to purchase, then give away, every meteorite known >> to man is a >> Machiavellian plot to stymie Steve Arnold's Quest for Ultimate >> Wealth. >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Mon Jul 13 13:18:29 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:18:29 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Greatest Meteorite Hunter in the World In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0BF3019C-590C-449D-AA28-36FE5852C957@comcast.net> According to some if Steve's media blitz it is him. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 13, 2009, at 9:50 AM, wrote: > In a post from July 11, Mr. Farmer writes: > > "It is a kind of blood sport, gotta have fun with it. > I wish we had the greatest meteorite hunter in the world here. > He could sure help us in AZ. It hasn't always been this way, we used > to > have fun with them, but now it is all contracts and publicists, > gotta get > into character and makeup, more of a business now than good time:)" > > So, Mike, who is this person? > > Paul Swartz > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 13 13:11:59 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion Message-ID: <131336.98255.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I have examined some of those freebies and they are NOT meteorites... maybe that can be worked minds of the masses. Elton --- On Mon, 7/13/09, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 1:34 PM > On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:12:29 +0200, > you wrote: > > >But such figures need also an eeevil counterpart, > >To fight with - else they would be boring for the > children... > > > >Any ideas? > > > > Well, Steve Arnold has his evil alternate universe > namesake, Steve Arnold.? His > relentless drive to purchase, then give away, every > meteorite known to man is a > Machiavellian plot to stymie Steve Arnold's Quest for > Ultimate Wealth. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From gle at verizon.net Mon Jul 13 13:29:11 2009 From: gle at verizon.net (Grant Elliott) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:29:11 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion References: <172744.55712.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com><8F5A5A0D-F782-445A-95C5-7CAA4EB27753@gilanet.com><003001ca03d4$b90ae710$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <0830E57C-F909-413B-B4EA-F003A3D97124@gilanet.com> <004c01ca03db$384aae60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <0C7E569E-5AF5-4D42-995D-BEEBED72B1A5@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <620F09EA51E248F892F16701F2249C01@Grant> Martin, On Jul 13, 2009, at 9:59 AM, Martin Altmann wrote: "And at the end of the plot, they will find out, that they are twins, separated by fate shortly after the birth?" TWINS: http://images.bluebeat.com/an/1/6/8/6/1/l16861.jpg Which is which? Regards, Grant Elliott From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 16:22:25 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:22:25 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion Message-ID: Great idea! I would collect the set. Except I think the end times is when ebay is flooded with shoddy bootleg figures from China with little pieces of slag. Carl Michael Cottingham wrote: >Don't forget the limited edition ACTION FIGURES complete with removable vests, metal detectors, and ATV's ! When we see these on ebay we will know for sure it is the "End Times" . I also wonder if Mike Farmer will get an action figure as the "MeteoriteMen's" arch rival! There also might be limited edition Bob Haag and Nininger action figures too! Some of these might actually come with a real meteorite. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jul 13 17:43:32 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:43:32 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:22:25 -0700, you wrote: > > > >Great idea! I would collect the set. Except I think the end times is when ebay is flooded with shoddy bootleg figures from China with little pieces of slag. > Hey, who else has a set of those Space Voyagers figures? A series of 4 figures in Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, and shuttle EVA suits, packaged with tektites labeled as "mysterious space rocks"? Don't seem to be any on Ebay right now, but where's one of 'em signed by John Glenn for an obscene price: http://www.historyforsale.com/html/prodetails.asp?documentid=276672&start=14&page=64 From stanleygregr at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 16:40:17 2009 From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:40:17 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Test Message-ID: Please ignore - this is a test _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?: Find, add, and share the best celeb pics, right from Hotmail. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_celebrity_photos2_072009&cat=celebrity From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Mon Jul 13 17:01:48 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:01:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion Message-ID: <469488.33807.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I would go more toward a Ghostbusters kind of gimicky theme myself. You know selling green slime candy and ghost removal insurance etc. Michael Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 13, 2009, at 2:43 PM, Darren Garrison wrote: On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 13:22:25 -0700, you wrote: Great idea! I would collect the set. Except I think the end times is when ebay is flooded with shoddy bootleg figures from China with little pieces of slag. Hey, who else has a set of those Space Voyagers figures? A series of 4 figures in Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, and shuttle EVA suits, packaged with tektites labeled as "mysterious space rocks"? Don't seem to be any on Ebay right now, but where's one of 'em signed by John Glenn for an obscene price: http://www.historyforsale.com/html/prodetails.asp?documentid=276672&start=14&page=64 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mlblood at cox.net Mon Jul 13 17:29:59 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:29:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: <001201ca03bd$676c8d30$3645a790$@net> Message-ID: Naw, They would just be one type and one fall.....however, there Would be a hell of a lot of HAMMERS! Michael On 7/13/09 6:25 AM, "Bill Mason" wrote: > Last night was the Science / History channel "Meteorite" Part two will be > next weekend. Just think of it - if all those meteorites came down the > market would go to hell. No more "one with the greatest collection when he > dies wins"? No more greed, no more exceptionally high prices and you'd have > to look for a new hobby. > Bill3 "Rusting" > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of michael > cottingham > Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 1:08 AM > To: cynapse at charter.net > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Promotion > > I always liked pecan pies the best... hey in this new bakery that we > are starting-can we make a lot of pecan pies? > > Michael Cottingham > > > On Jul 12, 2009, at 11:39 PM, Darren Garrison wrote: > >> On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:04:54 EDT, you wrote: >> >>> But in the past it has seemed like all the dealers were fighting >>> to get a >>> bigger piece of the limited pie. >>> >>> May I suggest that all the dealers stop thinking of getting a >>> bigger piece >>> of the small pie. Let's start thinking about making the pie >>> bigger! How >>> about let's start a bakery and start making pies! >>> >> >> Since the "pies" are meteorites, I am interested in hearing your >> plans for >> making more of them. I would suggest a small probe loaded with Von >> Neumann >> nanobots be launched to a convenient comet, where they would >> manufacture fusion >> rockets to be used for steering the comet into a chosen NEA. A >> major break-up >> event should cause quite an influx of meteorites over the next few >> hundred >> thousand years-- the drawback being that they will all be of the >> same type. >> >> I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter. >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Mon Jul 13 17:37:37 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:37:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Good article about meteorite in PA Message-ID: <222050.6447.qm@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://ydr.inyork.com/ci_12826118 finally an article that tells people what to look for, and I spoke to Derek and he said the photos of the West specimens are on the front page of the paper, not his mug but actual meteorites. Nice to see some news from PA meant to inform, not pump up google ratings. Michael Farmer From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 19:07:16 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:07:16 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Slogans? Message-ID: Hi Steve and Geoff, You'll need a nifty slogan for your show, T-Shirts and merchandise. How about these: 1.Meteorites are COOL! 2.Heads up! Too late! 3.I got rocks! 4.Will hunt meteorites for food! (food can be substituted for beer) 5.Mike Farmer is not evil. He's Mr. Furious from Mystery Men! (It's a joke, Mike :-D) Carl _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 From GeoZay at aol.com Mon Jul 13 19:32:22 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:32:22 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Slogans? Message-ID: >>You'll need a nifty slogan for your show, T-Shirts and merchandise. How about these:<< Here's a couple more: 1) Meteorites Rock My World. 2) I Watch For Falling Rocks. (I've already seen this on a t-shirt) GeoZay **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jul 13 20:44:28 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:44:28 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Slogans? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Catch a falling star and put it on Ebay." From meteorites at online.nl Mon Jul 13 20:13:38 2009 From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 02:13:38 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Slogans? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <240E352E0C9E49ABA5342634C25D04E3@laptop> "Totally lost since I've met-eorites" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slogans? > "Catch a falling star and put it on Ebay." > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.12/2235 - Release Date: 07/13/09 05:56:00 From stanleygregr at hotmail.com Mon Jul 13 20:21:57 2009 From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 17:21:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Slogans? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All: Some more Look in the sky... it's a bird... it's a plane... it's the Meteorite Men Do you see flashes of bright green light... Do you hear loud booms in the middle of the night... Then call The Meteorite Men - they're out of sight. Greg > From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:07:16 -0700 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Slogans? > > > Hi Steve and Geoff, > > You'll need a nifty slogan for your show, T-Shirts and merchandise. How about these: > > 1.Meteorites are COOL! > 2.Heads up! Too late! > 3.I got rocks! > 4.Will hunt meteorites for food! (food can be substituted for beer) > 5.Mike Farmer is not evil. He's Mr. Furious from Mystery Men! (It's a joke, Mike :-D) > > Carl > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Bing? brings you health information from trusted sources. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MHEINA_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1 From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jul 13 21:47:06 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:47:06 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Slogans? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ron5556svtr4in86gk0ql18cpqk364kp6@4ax.com> On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 16:07:16 -0700, you wrote: >You'll need a nifty slogan for your show, T-Shirts and merchandise. How about these: "I spent my vacation walking around in a desert strewnfield and all I have to show for it it this lousy t-shirt" From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jul 13 21:50:34 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:50:34 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Speaking of t-shirts In-Reply-To: <222050.6447.qm@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <222050.6447.qm@web110601.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This would look nice on one: http://www.farleftside.com/2009/3-4-09.html From drtanuki at yahoo.com Mon Jul 13 21:02:03 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:02:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite chatroom is open Message-ID: <897565.10327.qm@web53107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> List, Feel free to chat here: http://hchs70.org/tinc?key=XSK1SO8v&channel=240321 Dirk...Tokyo From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 13 21:09:02 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] 2 meteorite donations to a small school or university Message-ID: <637438.50281.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> This email is directed at the schools and universities that have science programs that promote meteorites.I have 2 iron meteorites that I would like to donate to a small school or university.This is not one of my freebies,so please,I do not need the usual people to email me.Please email me off list so I may help your programs. ?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! From fujmon at mac.com Mon Jul 13 21:32:03 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 15:32:03 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Hot Desert Sale Message-ID: <596D4A0E-5BAE-4775-9328-DCF813165229@mac.com> Aloha, I have some new material that I would like to offer for sale: Bassikounou crusted individuals (95-100% crusted, 6g-106g) $3/g uNWA lodranite 26g crusted fragment $1000 (likely paired to NWA 5488) uNWA olivine diogenite 46g individual $700 (likely paired to NWA 5480 uNWA pallasite 19g, 29g individuals $15/g (loaded with olivine) uNWA pallasite lot 104g of 2-5g fragments $9.60/g (loaded with olivine) Also for sale are Zunhua, Seymchan slices, and more with pictures and prices at Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From fujmon at mac.com Mon Jul 13 20:56:19 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 14:56:19 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Hot Desert Sale Message-ID: <3BE0AC24-7B18-4136-8D74-6900663DBC01@mac.com> Aloha, I have some new material that I would like to offer for sale: Bassikounou crusted individuals (95-100% crusted, 6g-106g) $3/g uNWA lodranite 26g crusted fragment $1000 (likely paring to NWA 5488) uNWA olivine diogenite 46g individual $700 (likely paring to NWA 5480 uNWA pallasite 19g, 29g individuals $15/g (loaded with olivine) uNWA pallasite lot 104g of 2-5g fragments $9.60/g (loaded with olivine) Also for sale are Zunhua, a CK4, Seymchan slices, and more with pictures and prices at Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon Jul 13 23:22:28 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:22:28 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] PA Fireball In S&T Message-ID: <4A5BF9F4.8020702@meteoritesusa.com> Sky & Telescope Article on the PA Fireball http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/50678607.html -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From jkg2 at cox.net Mon Jul 13 23:30:30 2009 From: jkg2 at cox.net (John Gwilliam) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:30:30 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Meteor Men Epidsode 1 In-Reply-To: <670397.6089.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <670397.6089.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090714033040.VVCB25927.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Well, I thought Steve must be "TBD" and Geoff "Captain Meteor." What a hoot! John At 12:21 AM 7/13/2009, Richard Kowalski wrote: >So which one of you two is Captain Meteor? I guess that's Steve and >Geoff must be "The Norseman" since he makes the ladies "Uncomfortably hot"... > > >-- >Richard Kowalski >http://fullmoonphotography.net >IMCA #1081 > > >--- On Mon, 7/13/09, drtanuki wrote: > > > From: drtanuki > > Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Meteor Men Epidsode 1 > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 12:06 AM > > > > List, > > Perhaps the alternative? Is this a coincidence? > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqxA6-Ji70M&NR=1 > > > > Enjoy or not, Dirk Ross...Tokyo > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list John Gwilliam Too many people were born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple. From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Mon Jul 13 23:33:53 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 20:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] PA Fireball In S&T In-Reply-To: <4A5BF9F4.8020702@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <668034.32553.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Congratulations Jack, and thanks Kelly for a great article. Michael Farmer --- On Mon, 7/13/09, Meteorites USA wrote: > From: Meteorites USA > Subject: [meteorite-list] PA Fireball In S&T > To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" > Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 9:22 PM > Sky & Telescope Article on the PA > Fireball > http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/50678607.html > > -- Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From cynapse at charter.net Tue Jul 14 00:52:44 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:52:44 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites, Ice, and Antarctica In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just found a PDF copy of the book, for those who don't already have a dead tree copy.: http://www.sendspace.com/file/ybhah2 From John at Cabassi.net Tue Jul 14 00:09:46 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 21:09:46 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another one Message-ID: <001101ca0438$ecd08a50$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2> G'Day List We have another one .. where's Captain Chondrite?? http://www.cloudbait.com/science/fireball20090713.html Cheers John From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Tue Jul 14 00:05:40 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 00:05:40 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 14, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_14_2009.html __________________________ **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) From majbaermann at web.de Tue Jul 14 04:47:56 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:47:56 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites, Ice, and Antarctica References: Message-ID: <798E88A4AD31414196CD294F2402B9F5@thinkcentre> Thank you, Darren, for the link - very kind indeed. Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 6:52 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites, Ice, and Antarctica >I just found a PDF copy of the book, for those who don't already have a >dead > tree copy.: > > http://www.sendspace.com/file/ybhah2 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From damoclid at yahoo.com Tue Jul 14 13:10:53 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo 40th Anniversary Celebration at LPL Message-ID: <994040.41075.qm@web33908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> For those who are in Tucson, or will be in the area on Saturday, The Lunar and Planetary Lab is hosting a 40th anniversary event in celebration. Below is the release. Note that a number of list members will be on hand. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ On July 18, from 2:00 to 8:00p.m., LPL will host a public celebration in honor of the 40th anniversary of the Apollo Moon landing. ** *Saturday's events are sponsored by the Space Imagery Center and organized by Maria Schuchardt.* The events schedule is posted and will be updated here: http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/calendar/calendar.php?ID=254. The UA press release about this event is here: http://uanews.org/node/26314. Apollo Moon Landing 40th Anniversary Celebration Saturday, 18 Jul 2009 2:00 pm ? 8:00 pm Location: Kuiper Space Sciences Building, Room 308, 312, 330, atrium Come help us celebrate the 40th Anniversary of Apollo 11 landing on the Moon! This event is FREE and open to the public. Activities from 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. include displays (including lunar meteorites), children?s activities, telescopes, solar viewing, 3D Apollo images, lectures, a NASA documentary of the flight of Apollo 15, liquid nitrogen ice cream, and more. Lectures and Movie times In the Mountains of the Moon, Kuiper 308, 2:00 to 2:50 p.m., 3:00 to 3:50 p.m., 4:00 to 4:50 p.m. Shane Byrne (Assistant Professor), ?Origin and Geology of the Moon,? Kuiper 308, 2:30 to 3:00 p.m. James V. Scotti (LPL Senior Research Specialist),?Where did Neil Armstrong leave his backpack?? Kuiper 308, 6:00 to 6:50 p.m. Robert G. Strom (Professor Emeritus), ?40th Anniversary of Apollo 11 Lunar Landing,? Kuiper 308, 7:00 to 7:50 p.m. Physics Factory for Kids, Kuiper 330, 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. NOAO Astronomy Outreach for Kids, Kuiper 351, 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. TAAA telescopes on the UA Mall for observing the Sun and a sliver of Moon from 2:00 to 3:00 p.m. Telescopes will remain available until 8:00 p.m. (weather permitting) Available for question-and-answer: Shane Byrne (Assistant Professor, PTYS/LPL) Dolores Hill (LPL Senior Research Specialist) Rik Hill (LPL Senior Research Specialist) Professor (Emeritus) Spencer R. Titley (Dept. of Geosciences) Ewen Whitaker (LPL, retired) Parking is FREE in the Cherry Avenue Garage and all surface lots. Participating organizations: Aerolite Meteorites Astronomy magazine Flandrau: The UA Science Center GraphiXadventure The Hupe Collection International Dark-Sky Association Jack Schrader Frank Lopez (Stellar Vision) Mike Farmer Meteorites NOAO: National Optical Astronomy Observatory Physics Factory SEDS: Students for the Exploration and Development of Space Shauna Russell The University of Arizona Museum of Art Tucson Amateur Astronomy Association Tucson Space Society Robert Ward White Eagle Aerospace Sponsored by: The Arizona Daily Star From gmhupe at htn.net Tue Jul 14 13:18:17 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:18:17 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo 40th Anniversary Celebration at LPL References: <994040.41075.qm@web33908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Richard and List, Here is the direct link to the official Department of Planetary Sciences - Lunar and Planetary Laboratory web site: http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/calendar/calendar.php?ID=254 I hope to run into some old friends and meet those who I have not met in person before at the event. Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Kowalski" To: "meteor list" Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:10 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo 40th Anniversary Celebration at LPL > > For those who are in Tucson, or will be in the area on Saturday, The Lunar > and Planetary Lab is hosting a 40th anniversary event in celebration. > > Below is the release. Note that a number of list members will be on hand. > > > -- > Richard Kowalski > http://fullmoonphotography.net > IMCA #1081 > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > On July 18, from 2:00 to 8:00p.m., LPL will host a public celebration in > honor of the 40th anniversary of the Apollo Moon landing. ** > > *Saturday's events are sponsored by the Space Imagery Center and organized > by > Maria Schuchardt.* > > The events schedule is posted and will be updated here: > http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/calendar/calendar.php?ID=254. The UA press > release about this event is here: http://uanews.org/node/26314. > > Apollo Moon Landing 40th Anniversary Celebration > > Saturday, 18 Jul 2009 > 2:00 pm ? 8:00 pm > Location: Kuiper Space Sciences Building, Room 308, 312, 330, atrium > > Come help us celebrate the 40th Anniversary of Apollo 11 landing on the > Moon! > > This event is FREE and open to the public. > Activities from 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. include displays (including lunar > meteorites), children?s activities, telescopes, solar viewing, 3D Apollo > images, lectures, a NASA documentary of the flight of Apollo 15, liquid > nitrogen ice cream, and more. > > Lectures and Movie times > In the Mountains of the Moon, Kuiper 308, 2:00 to 2:50 p.m., 3:00 to 3:50 > p.m., 4:00 to 4:50 p.m. > Shane Byrne (Assistant Professor), ?Origin and Geology of the Moon,? > Kuiper 308, 2:30 to 3:00 p.m. > James V. Scotti (LPL Senior Research Specialist),?Where did Neil Armstrong > leave his backpack?? Kuiper 308, 6:00 to 6:50 p.m. > Robert G. Strom (Professor Emeritus), ?40th Anniversary of Apollo 11 Lunar > Landing,? Kuiper 308, 7:00 to 7:50 p.m. > Physics Factory for Kids, Kuiper 330, 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. > NOAO Astronomy Outreach for Kids, Kuiper 351, 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. > TAAA telescopes on the UA Mall for observing the Sun and a sliver of Moon > from 2:00 to 3:00 p.m. Telescopes will remain available until 8:00 p.m. > (weather permitting) > > Available for question-and-answer: > Shane Byrne (Assistant Professor, PTYS/LPL) > Dolores Hill (LPL Senior Research Specialist) > Rik Hill (LPL Senior Research Specialist) > Professor (Emeritus) Spencer R. Titley (Dept. of Geosciences) > Ewen Whitaker (LPL, retired) > > Parking is FREE in the Cherry Avenue Garage and all surface lots. > > Participating organizations: > > Aerolite Meteorites > Astronomy magazine > Flandrau: The UA Science Center > GraphiXadventure > The Hupe Collection > International Dark-Sky Association > Jack Schrader > Frank Lopez (Stellar Vision) > Mike Farmer Meteorites > NOAO: National Optical Astronomy Observatory > Physics Factory > SEDS: Students for the Exploration and Development of Space > Shauna Russell > The University of Arizona Museum of Art > Tucson Amateur Astronomy Association > Tucson Space Society > Robert Ward > White Eagle Aerospace > > > Sponsored by: The Arizona Daily Star > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jul 14 13:45:38 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo 40th Anniversary Celebration at LPL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <597697.68328.qm@web110609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I will be exhibiting there, Several lunar meteorites of mine, Robert, Greg, Jack and Shauna will also have some incredible meteorites, some never before seen in public, on display. It will likely be the largest display of private lunar meteorites ever seen. Michael Farmer --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Greg Hupe wrote: > From: Greg Hupe > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo 40th Anniversary Celebration at LPL > To: "Richard Kowalski" > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 11:18 AM > Hello Richard and List, > > Here is the direct link to the official Department of > Planetary Sciences - Lunar and Planetary Laboratory web > site: > http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/calendar/calendar.php?ID=254 > > I hope to run into some old friends and meet those who I > have not met in person before at the event. > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Kowalski" > > To: "meteor list" > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:10 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo 40th Anniversary > Celebration at LPL > > > > > > For those who are in Tucson, or will be in the area on > Saturday, The Lunar and Planetary Lab is hosting a 40th > anniversary event in celebration. > > > > Below is the release. Note that a number of list > members will be on hand. > > > > > > -- > > Richard Kowalski > > http://fullmoonphotography.net > > IMCA #1081 > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > On July 18, from 2:00 to 8:00p.m., LPL will host a > public celebration in honor of the 40th anniversary of the > Apollo Moon landing. ** > > > > *Saturday's events are sponsored by the Space Imagery > Center and organized by > > Maria Schuchardt.* > > > > The events schedule is posted and will be updated > here: http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/calendar/calendar.php?ID=254. > The UA press release about this event is here: http://uanews.org/node/26314. > > > > Apollo Moon Landing 40th Anniversary Celebration > > > > Saturday, 18 Jul 2009 > > 2:00 pm ? 8:00 pm > > Location: Kuiper Space Sciences Building, Room 308, > 312, 330, atrium > > > > Come help us celebrate the 40th Anniversary of Apollo > 11 landing on the Moon! > > > > This event is FREE and open to the public. > > Activities from 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. include displays > (including lunar meteorites), children?s activities, > telescopes, solar viewing, 3D Apollo images, lectures, a > NASA documentary of the flight of Apollo 15, liquid nitrogen > ice cream, and more. > > > > Lectures and Movie times > > In the Mountains of the Moon, Kuiper 308, 2:00 to 2:50 > p.m., 3:00 to 3:50 p.m., 4:00 to 4:50 p.m. > > Shane Byrne (Assistant Professor), ?Origin and > Geology of the Moon,? Kuiper 308, 2:30 to 3:00 p.m. > > James V. Scotti (LPL Senior Research > Specialist),?Where did Neil Armstrong leave his > backpack?? Kuiper 308, 6:00 to 6:50 p.m. > > Robert G. Strom (Professor Emeritus), ?40th > Anniversary of Apollo 11 Lunar Landing,? Kuiper 308, 7:00 > to 7:50 p.m. > > Physics Factory for Kids, Kuiper 330, 2:00 to 5:00 > p.m. > > NOAO Astronomy Outreach for Kids, Kuiper 351, 2:00 to > 5:00 p.m. > > TAAA telescopes on the UA Mall for observing the Sun > and a sliver of Moon from 2:00 to 3:00 p.m. Telescopes will > remain available until 8:00 p.m. (weather permitting) > > > > Available for question-and-answer: > > Shane Byrne (Assistant Professor, PTYS/LPL) > > Dolores Hill (LPL Senior Research Specialist) > > Rik Hill (LPL Senior Research Specialist) > > Professor (Emeritus) Spencer R. Titley (Dept. of > Geosciences) > > Ewen Whitaker (LPL, retired) > > > > Parking is FREE in the Cherry Avenue Garage and all > surface lots. > > > > Participating organizations: > > > > Aerolite Meteorites > > Astronomy magazine > > Flandrau: The UA Science Center > > GraphiXadventure > > The Hupe Collection > > International Dark-Sky Association > > Jack Schrader > > Frank Lopez (Stellar Vision) > > Mike Farmer Meteorites > > NOAO: National Optical Astronomy Observatory > > Physics Factory > > SEDS: Students for the Exploration and Development of > Space > > Shauna Russell > > The University of Arizona Museum of Art > > Tucson Amateur Astronomy Association > > Tucson Space Society > > Robert Ward > > White Eagle Aerospace > > > > > > Sponsored by: The Arizona Daily Star > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From gmhupe at htn.net Tue Jul 14 13:53:25 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:53:25 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo 40th Anniversary Celebration at LPL References: <597697.68328.qm@web110609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <705554D3C39D4C4796F240DABFC32E55@Gregor> Dear List, I believe this will be the event of events!! I will also have a new unpaired lunar meteorite that has not been announced publicly and I have had it for over two years! This is the perfect event to display it along with six other lunar meteorites from The Hupe Collection. Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Farmer" To: "Richard Kowalski" ; "Greg Hupe" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo 40th Anniversary Celebration at LPL I will be exhibiting there, Several lunar meteorites of mine, Robert, Greg, Jack and Shauna will also have some incredible meteorites, some never before seen in public, on display. It will likely be the largest display of private lunar meteorites ever seen. Michael Farmer --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Greg Hupe wrote: > From: Greg Hupe > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo 40th Anniversary Celebration at LPL > To: "Richard Kowalski" > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 11:18 AM > Hello Richard and List, > > Here is the direct link to the official Department of > Planetary Sciences - Lunar and Planetary Laboratory web > site: > http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/calendar/calendar.php?ID=254 > > I hope to run into some old friends and meet those who I > have not met in person before at the event. > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Kowalski" > > To: "meteor list" > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:10 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo 40th Anniversary > Celebration at LPL > > > > > > For those who are in Tucson, or will be in the area on > Saturday, The Lunar and Planetary Lab is hosting a 40th > anniversary event in celebration. > > > > Below is the release. Note that a number of list > members will be on hand. > > > > > > -- > > Richard Kowalski > > http://fullmoonphotography.net > > IMCA #1081 > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > On July 18, from 2:00 to 8:00p.m., LPL will host a > public celebration in honor of the 40th anniversary of the > Apollo Moon landing. ** > > > > *Saturday's events are sponsored by the Space Imagery > Center and organized by > > Maria Schuchardt.* > > > > The events schedule is posted and will be updated > here: http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/calendar/calendar.php?ID=254. > The UA press release about this event is here: > http://uanews.org/node/26314. > > > > Apollo Moon Landing 40th Anniversary Celebration > > > > Saturday, 18 Jul 2009 > > 2:00 pm ? 8:00 pm > > Location: Kuiper Space Sciences Building, Room 308, > 312, 330, atrium > > > > Come help us celebrate the 40th Anniversary of Apollo > 11 landing on the Moon! > > > > This event is FREE and open to the public. > > Activities from 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. include displays > (including lunar meteorites), children?s activities, > telescopes, solar viewing, 3D Apollo images, lectures, a > NASA documentary of the flight of Apollo 15, liquid nitrogen > ice cream, and more. > > > > Lectures and Movie times > > In the Mountains of the Moon, Kuiper 308, 2:00 to 2:50 > p.m., 3:00 to 3:50 p.m., 4:00 to 4:50 p.m. > > Shane Byrne (Assistant Professor), ?Origin and > Geology of the Moon,? Kuiper 308, 2:30 to 3:00 p.m. > > James V. Scotti (LPL Senior Research > Specialist),?Where did Neil Armstrong leave his > backpack?? Kuiper 308, 6:00 to 6:50 p.m. > > Robert G. Strom (Professor Emeritus), ?40th > Anniversary of Apollo 11 Lunar Landing,? Kuiper 308, 7:00 > to 7:50 p.m. > > Physics Factory for Kids, Kuiper 330, 2:00 to 5:00 > p.m. > > NOAO Astronomy Outreach for Kids, Kuiper 351, 2:00 to > 5:00 p.m. > > TAAA telescopes on the UA Mall for observing the Sun > and a sliver of Moon from 2:00 to 3:00 p.m. Telescopes will > remain available until 8:00 p.m. (weather permitting) > > > > Available for question-and-answer: > > Shane Byrne (Assistant Professor, PTYS/LPL) > > Dolores Hill (LPL Senior Research Specialist) > > Rik Hill (LPL Senior Research Specialist) > > Professor (Emeritus) Spencer R. Titley (Dept. of > Geosciences) > > Ewen Whitaker (LPL, retired) > > > > Parking is FREE in the Cherry Avenue Garage and all > surface lots. > > > > Participating organizations: > > > > Aerolite Meteorites > > Astronomy magazine > > Flandrau: The UA Science Center > > GraphiXadventure > > The Hupe Collection > > International Dark-Sky Association > > Jack Schrader > > Frank Lopez (Stellar Vision) > > Mike Farmer Meteorites > > NOAO: National Optical Astronomy Observatory > > Physics Factory > > SEDS: Students for the Exploration and Development of > Space > > Shauna Russell > > The University of Arizona Museum of Art > > Tucson Amateur Astronomy Association > > Tucson Space Society > > Robert Ward > > White Eagle Aerospace > > > > > > Sponsored by: The Arizona Daily Star > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From almitt at kconline.com Tue Jul 14 14:15:26 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:15:26 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion In-Reply-To: <131336.98255.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <131336.98255.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6BEB7B5F1B86445597FA84F44C9501A6@StarmanPC> Greetings Elton and all, I hope there are no meteorwrongs going to schools!!! --AL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: ; Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men Promotion I have examined some of those freebies and they are NOT meteorites... maybe that can be worked minds of the masses. Elton --- On Mon, 7/13/09, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT(WIND Farm, ie SPAM) Meteorite Men > Promotion > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 1:34 PM > On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 18:12:29 +0200, > you wrote: > > >But such figures need also an eeevil counterpart, > >To fight with - else they would be boring for the > children... > > > >Any ideas? > > > > Well, Steve Arnold has his evil alternate universe > namesake, Steve Arnold. His > relentless drive to purchase, then give away, every > meteorite known to man is a > Machiavellian plot to stymie Steve Arnold's Quest for > Ultimate Wealth. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Tue Jul 14 16:34:53 2009 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 15:34:53 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Bob Evans Meteorite Lawsuit Settled Message-ID: <1247603693.19731.16.camel@Game-machine> Bob Evans paid the judgment against him in April. He paid his judgment in full, including the interest, and filing fees. He chose to pay a week before he was scheduled to appear in court before an Illinois judge and disclose his employer, income, assets, and details of his meteorite collection. I have no further dispute with him. -mt From cynapse at charter.net Tue Jul 14 18:34:02 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 17:34:02 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Space auction In-Reply-To: <994040.41075.qm@web33908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <994040.41075.qm@web33908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9t1q551dp60g54lb05a137cfo0f9h974t4@4ax.com> Just to clarify-- the auction takes place on Earth-- the items are related to space. http://www.boingboing.net/2009/07/14/space-history-auctio.html From damoclid at yahoo.com Tue Jul 14 17:45:36 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:45:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Space auction Message-ID: <370686.38849.qm@web33908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> To avoid multiple links to get there, the auction catalog is here: http://forms.butterfields.com/pdf/17402_Space_lowres.pdf -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: [meteorite-list] Space auction > To: "meteor list" > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 3:34 PM > Just to clarify-- the auction takes > place on Earth-- the items are related to > space. > > http://www.boingboing.net/2009/07/14/space-history-auctio.html > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From cynapse at charter.net Tue Jul 14 19:07:32 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:07:32 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Venus, if you will In-Reply-To: <1247603693.19731.16.camel@Game-machine> References: <1247603693.19731.16.camel@Game-machine> Message-ID: http://spacefellowship.com/2009/07/14/new-map-hints-at-venus-wet-volcanic-past/ New map hints at Venus? wet, volcanic past By Rob Goldsmith Published: 14 July 2009 10:42 AM UTC Venus Express has charted the first map of Venus? southern hemisphere at infrared wavelengths. The new map hints that our neighbouring world may once have been more Earth-like, with a plate tectonics system and an ocean of water. The map comprises over a thousand individual images, recorded between May 2006 and December 2007. Because Venus is covered in clouds, normal cameras cannot see the surface, but Venus Express used a particular infrared wavelength that can see through them. Although radar systems have been used in the past to provide high-resolution maps of Venus? surface, Venus Express is the first orbiting spacecraft to produce a map that hints at the chemical composition of the rocks. The new data are consistent with suspicions that the highland plateaus of Venus are ancient continents, once surrounded by ocean and produced by past volcanic activity. ?This is not proof, but it is consistent. All we can really say at the moment is that the plateau rocks look different from elsewhere,? says Nils M?ller at the Joint Planetary Interior Physics Research Group of the University M?nster and DLR Berlin, who headed the mapping efforts. The rocks look different because of the amount of infrared light they radiate into space, similar to the way a brick wall heats up during the day and gives off its heat at night. Besides, different surfaces radiate different amounts of heat at infrared wavelengths owing to a material characteristic known as emissivity. The Visible and Infrared Thermal Imaging Spectrometer (VIRTIS) instrument captured this infrared radiation during Venus Express?s night-time orbits around the planet?s southern hemisphere. The eight Russian landers of the 1970s and 1980s touched down away from the highlands and found only basalt-like rock beneath their landing pads. The new map shows that the rocks on the Phoebe and Alpha Regio plateaus are lighter in colour and look old compared to the majority of the planet. On Earth, such light-coloured rocks are usually granite and form continents. Granite is formed when ancient rocks, made of basalt, are driven down into the planet by shifting continents, a process known as plate tectonics. The water combines with the basalt to form granite and the mixture is reborn through volcanic eruptions. ?If there is granite on Venus, there must have been an ocean and plate tectonics in the past,? says M?ller. M?ller points out that the only way to know for sure whether the highland plateaus are continents is to send a lander there. Over time, Venus? water has been lost to space, but there might still be volcanic activity. The infrared observations are very sensitive to temperature. But in all images they saw variations of only 3?20?C, instead of the kind of temperature difference they would expect from active lava flows. Although Venus Express did not see any evidence of ongoing volcanic activity this time this time around, M?ller does not rule it out. ?Venus is a big planet, being heated by radioactive elements in its interior. It should have as much volcanic activity as Earth,? he says. Indeed, some areas do appear to be composed of darker rock, which hints at relatively recent volcanic flows. The new map gives astronomers another tool in their quest to understand why Venus is so similar in size to Earth and yet has evolved so differently. From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jul 14 19:55:15 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:55:15 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for low-cost Moldavite chips Message-ID: Hi List! I am looking for some inexpensive Moldavite pieces. Clarity and shape are not important. Size is not important. What I am looking for are chips and small fragments that weigh about .5 gram to 1 gram each (roughly). I need about 20-30 grams, depending on price. Due to time constraints, I need this from a US-based seller. *** No Orient-sourced Moldavite. *** Contact me offlist at meteoritemike at gmail.com Thanks in advance! MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Wed Jul 15 00:38:07 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:38:07 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 15, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_15_2009.html __________________________ **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 39%2D1629%2D4) From mlblood at cox.net Wed Jul 15 03:58:05 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:58:05 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 15, 2009 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is what I got: " Sorry, the site you requested has been disabled" Greatly appreciate your service to the meteorite community! Michael On 7/14/09 9:38 PM, "SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com" wrote: > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_15_2009.html > > > > > __________________________ > > **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great > laptop deals from Dell! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http: > %2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 > 39%2D1629%2D4) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Wed Jul 15 07:28:57 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 04:28:57 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 15, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi: Got this, too. Went back to yesterday (14th) and same error message. Larry > This is what I got: " Sorry, the site you requested > has been disabled" > Greatly appreciate your service to the meteorite community! > Michael > > > On 7/14/09 9:38 PM, "SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com" wrote: > >> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_15_2009.html >> >> >> >> >> __________________________ >> >> **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out >> great >> laptop deals from Dell! >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http: >> %2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 >> 39%2D1629%2D4) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From spacerocksinc at aol.com Wed Jul 15 10:31:53 2009 From: spacerocksinc at aol.com (spacerocksinc at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:31:53 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 15, 2009 Message-ID: <458545269-1247668299-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-380330153-@bxe1019.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Rocks from Space is now back on line! http://www.rocksfromspace.org/ ------Original Message------ From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu To: Michael Blood Cc: spacerocksinc at aol.com Cc: Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 15, 2009 Sent: Jul 15, 2009 7:28 AM Hi: Got this, too. Went back to yesterday (14th) and same error message. Larry > This is what I got: " Sorry, the site you requested > has been disabled" > Greatly appreciate your service to the meteorite community! > Michael > > > On 7/14/09 9:38 PM, "SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com" wrote: > >> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_15_2009.html >> >> >> >> >> __________________________ >> >> **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out >> great >> laptop deals from Dell! >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http: >> %2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 >> 39%2D1629%2D4) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > Thumbed On My BlackBerry From marcin at meteoryt.net Wed Jul 15 10:46:26 2009 From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:46:26 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 15, 2009 References: <458545269-1247668299-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-380330153-@bxe1019.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <004301ca055b$0841e720$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> >> >> On 7/14/09 9:38 PM, "SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com" >> wrote: >> >>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_15_2009.html >>> Amazing! But propably cut without water on wire saw ? Otherwise it will be gone... -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From nwa482 at comcast.net Wed Jul 15 10:55:35 2009 From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:55:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1827539758.1785771247669735847.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Keep up the good work Michael. You provide a valuable service for all of us to share specimens with each other without asking for any "pat on the back" Hopefully we are all helping support your work by clicking on the paypal donation button! Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV ?26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ ? > To: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu; mlblood at cox.net > From: spacerocksinc at aol.com > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:31:53 +0000 > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 15, 2009 > > Rocks from Space is now back on line! > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/ > From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jul 15 11:51:39 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:51:39 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thursday Night Message-ID: Hello List, I am excited to announce the prototype to a new line of meteorite collectibles Geoff Notkin and I are working on. Several years ago, I put some pieces of Brenham Shale in a plastic "slabs" as a test as a Limited Edition Collectible at the Haviland Kansas Meteorite Festival, they seemed to go over well. I then took it a step further and made six different slabs holding dust from various meteorites (Moon Dust, Mars Dust, etc). I put that project on the back burner, until revisiting the concept with Geoff now. These slabs are manufactured for the rare coin industry and are quite popular in that industry. The slim clear plastic cases also work great for holding thin part slices of meteorites as well. With our TV show "Meteorite Men" airing on Science Channel, more people are being introduced to the world of meteorite collecting, and as such we thought it would be nice to make it a little easier for them to get started with meteorites with a little different packaging. Of course, most all of you on the Meteorite List are not in need of help in getting started collecting, but we wanted to get your feedback on this as well. Some of you remember our limited run of Brenham part slices in Lucite from Tucson. These were quite popular, but at $99 they were priced out of the range of a lot of beginning collectors. We wanted to have something in the $3 to $50 retail price range to offer. We are expecting that more "Meteorite Men" episodes will be coming in the near future. If more TV episodes do materialize, then we will almost certainly take these slabbed meteorites collectibles up to a far more professional level in appearance, as well as with a wider selection of available specimens. But for now, this is what we have. Some of these will slabbed specimens in the future will not be limited editions, where we would most likely set the retail price and then make as many as the market would continue to buy. While others will be limited to a just a few limited number specimens, in some case a very limited number. So we have made a "prototype" assortment of limited edition meteorites encased in the slabs, and we have some of them up on Ebay right now. Getting the exact same size part slice for each of a limited edition of 20 pieces, for example, would be very hard to do. With low priced per gram material, it is not a big deal, as they can all be priced all the same. But with more rare material, the actual value of the specimen could differ greatly base upon the weight of the slice. Then there is the value of the item as a collectible. It is so hard to predict what the values should be, as that is so subjective. Ask some people, and they will say the collectible factor is not even worth $1.00. If our TV show does go to series, and becomes a big hit, and we start cranking out thousands of these specimens in slabs, then the first ones out in this batch theoretically could become more valuable up and beyond the raw value of the meteorite specimen enclosed in it. Why are some rare coins with the same about of silver in them worth more than others? Why are some baseball cards worth more than others? It all has a bit to do with supply and demand. The demand is real low for these right now, since (relatively speaking) no one knows about us, or these items, yet. Some of these specimens are almost impossible to find on the market, while some are very common. Some are exotic types, others more common. The numbers available of each range from 6 up to 27, so there is a wide range on the availability factor. So, I have put some of these up on Ebay with a 3 day listing. We hope some of you buy these at what will be a fair price right now, and we hope they later become worth a lot more. In addition to making the buyers happy, and us happy, it would really tweak one person out there! :-) So, I am starting each of these at $0.99, with no reserve, and we will see where they go. Also, I have one complete set with all 18 specimens, all numbered #4, up for auction in one lot. In this prototype run, the lower the number the BIGGER the specimen enclosed. So many of the #4 specimens are much larger than the others being listed here on the same night. Remember that when looking to The Colony, OK specimen only has 6 units. And the #6 unit is up for sale as an individual with this batch. So, at the most, there is only going to be 5 complete sets available. In fact, this one full set might be the only complete set that will go on sale as such. Check them out here: http://stores.ebay.com/Steve-Arnold-Meteorites?refid=store Please look at the listings, and feel free to respond to me off list if you would like to share some comments, or ask questions. Also, if you are one of the people who eventually buys one, please check back with me on your opinion of these after they arrive and you get to see them in person. Thanks, Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 39%2D1629%2D4) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jul 15 11:58:59 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:58:59 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men on TV again 4 times in next 3 days Message-ID: Hello Folks, For any of you who missed the TV show "Meteorite Men," or for those of you who would like to watch it again, it is airing 4 more times over the next 3 days on the Science Channel. Wed. July 15, 8:00 pm Eastern Time Wed. July 15, 11:00 pm Eastern Time Thurs. July 16, 3:00 pm Eastern Time Fri. July 17, 3:00 am Eastern Time You can also check the listings here: http://science.discovery.com/tv-schedules/series.html?paid=48.15725.126184.3 6729.1 More info about the show can be found at: www.MeteoriteMen.com Enjoy! Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 39%2D1629%2D4) From dfpens01 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 15 11:53:11 2009 From: dfpens01 at yahoo.com (David Pensenstadler) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 08:53:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 15, 2009 Message-ID: <570383.5733.qm@web90306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List: Just after that fall, Mike Zolensky, NASA Johnson Space Center, spoke at our monthly Spectroscopy Society of Pittsburgh meeting, and he gave me a small crystal of that salt from Monahans, which I have nicely displayed in the Natural Sciences Section of my living room. Dave --- On Wed, 7/15/09, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com wrote: > From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 15, 2009 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 12:38 AM > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_15_2009.html > > > > > __________________________??? > > **************Performance you need and the value you want! > Check out great > laptop deals from Dell! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 > 39%2D1629%2D4) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Wed Jul 15 12:23:13 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:23:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thursday Night In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <963819.40996.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Let me get this strait, so you put it in a box, and make a label saying it is from you, and all you do is put a number on it, say #4 of 45. Damn, can't believe I didn't think of that first. I have thousands of Allende fragments, (I used to buy kilos of them from the Mexicans direct until they ran out) I could really ramp up the gimmicks to try and squeeze another buck or two out of the buyer using their own stupidity against them. I am sure though, when they go to sell their box later that anyone with brains will say, hmmmm .35 gram fragment of Allende retails for about $3.00, so I offer you $1.00 and not "wow", this is a limited edition plastic box so let's call it $30.00. I don't know why you cant just sell what you own for what it is, and not try to "Billy Mays" it all daytime TV style. It is good for a laugh though. Michael Farmer From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 12:47:59 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:47:59 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thursday Night In-Reply-To: <963819.40996.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <963819.40996.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Steve, Mike and List, >From the peanut gallery - Ok guys, enough is enough. This back and forth is making us all look bad and making meteorites look bad by proxy. Newbies are going to come here and think that space rocks infect people with Andromeda Strain madness. Look, when I act up and say stupid things on the List, most people ignore it. Who am I anyway? But you guys are the big names in the field - you guys are representatives of the hobby. You are in magazines and on TV. I knew who Steve Arnold and Mike Farmer were before I knew there were different types of carbonaceous chondrites. So when you guys come on the List and start going back and forth with general nastiness, it carries more weight and grabs more attention than it would if I was saying it. (or some other Johnny Come Lately) People are going to think - so this how meteorite people behave, I think I'll go collect pez dispensers now. Professional meteorite hunters (the successful ones, like you guys) live a life the rest of us armchair chasers dream of - you get to "work" by chasing space rocks and finding them. It beats the hell out of getting up at 4:30am and running a forklift at a distribution center or digging ditches for a living. (although, one could argue that finding meteorites does involve some ditch digging) - you guys are part of a very small brotherhood that gets to make a living from a PASSION. How cool is that? To wake up in the morning and ENJOY the idea of going to work. Steve is riding high on his Meteorite Men success right now - let him have it. Damn, if the tables were turned, I'd like to think that any of us wouldn't get our hides skinned because we revelled in our success of finding meteorites. And I understand what Mike is saying about too much hype - it what the radio does to new music - they run it into the ground until you are sick of hearing it. But there is no reason to carry out a public slapfight over this. Take it to private email. Mike, I'm sure you have Steve's phone number - call him up and bitch him out over the phone so we don't have to hear it. All you are doing is alienating customers/newbies - which I'm sure you don't care about because they are "nickel and dime" customers anyway. Actually, if I was profit-minded, I'd be loving this - because for every newbie you guys turn off, they come running to people like me - and I am more than happy to sell them all of the nickel and dime meteorites they want. I promised myself and the List, I'd keep my mouth shut and think before hitting "send" - which I have done for a week now while this continues on and on. So here you have it. Best regards and let's knock it off, MikeG On 7/15/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > > Let me get this strait, so you put it in a box, and make a label saying it > is from you, and all you do is put a number on it, say #4 of 45. > Damn, can't believe I didn't think of that first. I have thousands of > Allende fragments, (I used to buy kilos of them from the Mexicans direct > until they ran out) I could really ramp up the gimmicks to try and squeeze > another buck or two out of the buyer using their own stupidity against them. > I am sure though, when they go to sell their box later that anyone with > brains will say, hmmmm .35 gram fragment of Allende retails for about $3.00, > so I offer you $1.00 and not "wow", this is a limited edition plastic box so > let's call it $30.00. > > I don't know why you cant just sell what you own for what it is, and not try > to "Billy Mays" it all daytime TV style. > It is good for a laugh though. > > Michael Farmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jul 15 13:54:25 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:54:25 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Cosmic (non)surprise: Many asteroids are comets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4t5s55dl8bb94ml36893ekrhgndrp0dc2q@4ax.com> http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Industry/Cosmic-surprise-Many-asteroids-are-comets/articleshow/4781199.cms PARIS: Many of the primitive bodies wandering the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter are former comets , tossed out of orbit by a brutal ballet between the giant outer planets, say a team of astrophysicists. A commonly accepted theory is that the asteroid belt is the rubble left over from a "proto-planetary disk," the dense ring of gas that surrounds a new-born star. But the orbiting rocks have long been a source of deep curiosity. They are remarkably varied, ranging from mixtures of ice and rock to igneous rocks, which implies they have jumbled origins. The answer to the mystery, according to a study published by the British journal Nature on Wednesday, is that a "significant fraction" of the asteroid population in fact comprises ex-comets. Famously described as "dirty snowballs" of ice and dust, comets are lonely, long-distance wanderers of the Solar System whose elliptical swing around the Sun can take decades. Researchers in France and the United States ran a mathematical model of the development of the early Solar System, when the planets were accreting from clustering masses of dust and gas. According to this model, the nascent giant planets -- Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune -- orbited at this time in a pretty compact configuration, between five and 15 astronomical units (AUs) from the Sun. An AU is a standard unit of measurement for Solar System distances. It equals the distance from the Earth to the Sun, or around 150 million kilometres (93 million miles). Beyond the giant planets was a disk-shaped mass of comets, known as trans-Neptunian objects, between 16 and 30 AUs from the Sun. As the giants became bigger and bigger, their orbits became unstable. Eventually, after around 600 million years, Uranus and Neptune were kicked out by gravitational jousting. They rammed into the disk of comets and scattered its members throughout the Solar System, according to this model. Many of them were captured by the weak gravitational force of the asteroid belt, where they remain to this day. "It's a paradigm shift," said Matthieu Gounelle of France's National Centre for Scientific Research (CNRS) in a press release. "The asteroid belt is not just a leftover from the formation of the Solar System, but also that of violent phenomena" including the great planetary migration. If the model is right, it implies that the difference between the most primitive asteroids and comets is even slimmer than thought. It would also shed light on the controversial origin of micrometeorites, or tiny extraterrestrial particles that survive the fiery passage through Earth's atmosphere. Micrometeorites are different from meteorites in composition and texture, and this could be explained if they derive from comets, which are richer in organic material and crumblier than native asteroids. From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 12:51:03 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:51:03 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thursday Night In-Reply-To: References: <963819.40996.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: BTW - show some respect for Mr. Billy Mays. He was a better salesman than any of you or us. If he was shilling meteorites, there'd be a space rock in every home. ;) On 7/15/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > Hi Steve, Mike and List, > > From the peanut gallery - > > Ok guys, enough is enough. This back and forth is making us all look > bad and making meteorites look bad by proxy. Newbies are going to > come here and think that space rocks infect people with Andromeda > Strain madness. > > Look, when I act up and say stupid things on the List, most people > ignore it. Who am I anyway? > > But you guys are the big names in the field - you guys are > representatives of the hobby. You are in magazines and on TV. I knew > who Steve Arnold and Mike Farmer were before I knew there were > different types of carbonaceous chondrites. So when you guys come on > the List and start going back and forth with general nastiness, it > carries more weight and grabs more attention than it would if I was > saying it. (or some other Johnny Come Lately) People are going to > think - so this how meteorite people behave, I think I'll go collect > pez dispensers now. > > Professional meteorite hunters (the successful ones, like you guys) > live a life the rest of us armchair chasers dream of - you get to > "work" by chasing space rocks and finding them. It beats the hell out > of getting up at 4:30am and running a forklift at a distribution > center or digging ditches for a living. (although, one could argue > that finding meteorites does involve some ditch digging) - you guys > are part of a very small brotherhood that gets to make a living from a > PASSION. How cool is that? To wake up in the morning and ENJOY the > idea of going to work. > > Steve is riding high on his Meteorite Men success right now - let him > have it. Damn, if the tables were turned, I'd like to think that any > of us wouldn't get our hides skinned because we revelled in our > success of finding meteorites. And I understand what Mike is saying > about too much hype - it what the radio does to new music - they run > it into the ground until you are sick of hearing it. But there is no > reason to carry out a public slapfight over this. Take it to private > email. Mike, I'm sure you have Steve's phone number - call him up and > bitch him out over the phone so we don't have to hear it. All you are > doing is alienating customers/newbies - which I'm sure you don't care > about because they are "nickel and dime" customers anyway. Actually, > if I was profit-minded, I'd be loving this - because for every newbie > you guys turn off, they come running to people like me - and I am more > than happy to sell them all of the nickel and dime meteorites they > want. > > I promised myself and the List, I'd keep my mouth shut and think > before hitting "send" - which I have done for a week now while this > continues on and on. So here you have it. > > Best regards and let's knock it off, > > MikeG > > > On 7/15/09, Michael Farmer wrote: >> >> Let me get this strait, so you put it in a box, and make a label saying >> it >> is from you, and all you do is put a number on it, say #4 of 45. >> Damn, can't believe I didn't think of that first. I have thousands of >> Allende fragments, (I used to buy kilos of them from the Mexicans direct >> until they ran out) I could really ramp up the gimmicks to try and >> squeeze >> another buck or two out of the buyer using their own stupidity against >> them. >> I am sure though, when they go to sell their box later that anyone with >> brains will say, hmmmm .35 gram fragment of Allende retails for about >> $3.00, >> so I offer you $1.00 and not "wow", this is a limited edition plastic box >> so >> let's call it $30.00. >> >> I don't know why you cant just sell what you own for what it is, and not >> try >> to "Billy Mays" it all daytime TV style. >> It is good for a laugh though. >> >> Michael Farmer >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jul 15 12:53:29 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:53:29 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... Message-ID: In a message dated 7/15/2009 11:23:18 A.M. Central Daylight Time, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: I am sure though, when they go to sell their box later that anyone with brains will say, hmmmm .35 gram fragment of Allende retails for about $3.00, so I offer you $1.00 and not "wow", this is a limited edition plastic box so let's call it $30.00. Mike, FYI, these are all listed at $0.99 on Ebay, not at $30.00 If anyone wants to pay more for any of these, they can offer more. It is their choice. I am sure, if you have your way as a very influential person in the meteorite world, you will discourage EVERYONE from bidding on these, and they will all just sell for $0.99 each, or maybe not even get any bids. Personally, my goal is that each one sells for at least $2.25 so I can prove to you that my promotional efforts are worth more than the $1.00 that you said it was only worth. You don't know how much pleasure this brings me that just the announcement tweaks you so much Mike? Thanks. It is all worth it now, even if they all only sell for only $1.05 each. By all means Mike, offer some of your own meteorite inventory in limited quantities and see if you can get more for them. Anyone can buy the plastic cases, but if you don't like the idea, fine, just use a cardboard box and an paper ID card. I have a hunch people might like them in plastic cases and in limited editions. It has been done before in other fields of collectibles, why not with meteorites? Maybe no one will like them. Maybe some people will. We will see. Of course I could take some meteorites to China and have figurines caved out of them, or have them made into jewelry, but I am trying this method to reach out to new collectors to see how it goes. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Life is good. Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 39%2D1629%2D4) From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jul 15 14:02:47 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:02:47 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A Stein full of enstatite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Check out the crater chain in one of the photos: http://spacefellowship.com/2009/07/15/steins-unveils-its-secrets/ From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jul 15 13:13:54 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:13:54 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... Message-ID: In a message dated 7/15/2009 11:23:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: Let me get this strait, so you put it in a box, and make a label saying it is from you, and all you do is put a number on it, say #4 of 45. Damn, can't believe I didn't think of that first. I have thousands of Allende fragments, (I used to buy kilos of them from the Mexicans direct until they ran out) I could really ramp up the gimmicks to try and squeeze another buck or two out of the buyer using their own stupidity against them. I am sure though, when they go to sell their box later that anyone with brains will say, hmmmm .35 gram fragment of Allende retails for about $3.00, so I offer you $1.00 and not "wow", this is a limited edition plastic box so let's call it $30.00. ******** Mike, Here is an idea for you, and you can have this idea all for yourself, I won't tell anyone else about it. Just between you and me (and the 12 people who read the List, but I am sure they won't tell anyone either.) Mint up some token/coins. Then glue some meteorites on them that are worth about $0.02 each. Stamp #4 of 45 on the back of them and sell them for $30.00. I know, at first you might think that anyone so stupid to do something like selling a coin worth maybe $1 for $30 would only get people laughing at them. And while I am sure you would think that would be a slimy "Billy Mays" thing to do, maybe you should try it. I am sure no one will laugh at you if you at least tried it. But, if you do something like that, be careful and not mention it on the meteorite list, as there are some people on there that would attack you and tell you it is stupid and that you are just trying to rip people off, and they would try to get everyone else not to buy them. Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 39%2D1629%2D4) From damoclid at yahoo.com Wed Jul 15 13:21:01 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 10:21:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Commercials during the broadcasts? Message-ID: <475076.34277.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Love or hate Steve & Geoff, but it seems to me that some well placed commercials aired by other dealers while the MM shows are run seems to make sense to me. The commercials can be run only in your local market to keep the cost down and you have a built in audience. People interested in meteorites, even in passing, are watching the show. Isn't that the type of person you'd want to advertise to? Just my $0.02 and probably not worth much more. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Wed Jul 15 14:02:45 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:02:45 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Steve even a monkey would understand the difference between a minted coin with numbers stamped on and a plastic box with handwritten paper. By the way we many thousands for each limited edition coin. So yes no one would deny that the meteorite is not worth anything to speak of but the work in making the coin cost plenty. We sell enogh of them that is for sure. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 10:13 AM, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/15/2009 11:23:32 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: > Let me get this strait, so you put it in a box, and make a label > saying it > is from you, and all you do is put a number on it, say #4 of 45. > Damn, can't believe I didn't think of that first. I have thousands of > Allende fragments, (I used to buy kilos of them from the Mexicans > direct until > they ran out) I could really ramp up the gimmicks to try and squeeze > another buck or two out of the buyer using their own stupidity > against them. > I am sure though, when they go to sell their box later that anyone > with > brains will say, hmmmm .35 gram fragment of Allende retails for > about $3.00, > so I offer you $1.00 and not "wow", this is a limited edition > plastic box so > let's call it $30.00. > ******** > > Mike, > > Here is an idea for you, and you can have this idea all for > yourself, I > won't tell anyone else about it. Just between you and me (and the > 12 people > who read the List, but I am sure they won't tell anyone either.) > > Mint up some token/coins. Then glue some meteorites on them that are > worth about $0.02 each. Stamp #4 of 45 on the back of them and > sell them for > $30.00. > > I know, at first you might think that anyone so stupid to do > something > like selling a coin worth maybe $1 for $30 would only get people > laughing at > them. And while I am sure you would think that would be a slimy > "Billy > Mays" thing to do, maybe you should try it. I am sure no one will > laugh at you > if you at least tried it. > > But, if you do something like that, be careful and not mention it > on the > meteorite list, as there are some people on there that would attack > you and > tell you it is stupid and that you are just trying to rip people > off, and > they would try to get everyone else not to buy them. > > Steve Arnold > of "Meteorite Men" > > **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out > great > laptop deals from Dell! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 > 39%2D1629%2D4) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From nwa482 at comcast.net Wed Jul 15 15:35:19 2009 From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:35:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <528580381.1924151247686519741.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Hi Steve,,,,,,, In your enthusiasm to strike a fatal blow to your arch nemesis in the meteorite world you forgot one important fact. The meteorite coins/tokens/medals (or whatever everyone wants to call them) are truely limited edition. There will only be ONE #420 of the Campo coin or any other medal that has been struck using a reputable company using a mold and die process. This is the main difference from a piece of paper with a number written on it. I am not saying that you would make more than ONE #1 of any of your cases but in theory it could be easily done. Also, there are quite a few of us selling meteorite coins/medals/tokens so when you are taking a shot at these collectables, well you are taking a shot at a lot of us. Just because I fell good about going on vacation for a week, I will give discount on all of my meteorite coins/medals/tokens for the next 24 hours. $20- each for the Campo and NWA 869 Medals and $70- each for the planetary Medals. Payment must be made by 5:00 Eastern Time on Thursday so that I can ship on my way to the airport on Friday. Worldwide shipping costs are included in the discounted price. Unfortunately, I can not take specific # orders on this short of notice. For those of you who like to call them coins go to this link: http://www.meteoritecoins.com For those of you who like to call them medals go to this link: http://www.meteoritemedals.com For those of you who like to call them tokens go to this link: http://www.meteoritetokens.com Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.imeteorites.com ? > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:13:54 -0400 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... > > Mike, > > Mint up some token/coins. Then glue some meteorites on them that are > worth about $0.02 each. Stamp #4 of 45 on the back of them and sell them for > $30.00. > > I know, at first you might think that anyone so stupid to do something > like selling a coin worth maybe $1 for $30 would only get people laughing at > them. And while I am sure you would think that would be a slimy "Billy > Mays" thing to do, maybe you should try it. I am sure no one will laugh at you > if you at least tried it. > > But, if you do something like that, be careful and not mention it on the > meteorite list, as there are some people on there that would attack you and > tell you it is stupid and that you are just trying to rip people off, and > they would try to get everyone else not to buy them. > > Steve Arnold From eric at meteoritesusa.com Wed Jul 15 15:35:36 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 12:35:36 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AS: Auctions Ending Tonight + Deals Message-ID: <4A5E2F88.6020708@meteoritesusa.com> Hi Listees, I have some auctions ending tonight. I had a huge sale last week, and this week I'm selling some material at or below cost. One large whole stone weighing 4963g is listed for a starting bid of only $999 or .20/g. Serious offers will be considered. All items listed are select hand picked pieces with great aesthetics and very affordably priced. Collectors this is a good time to get some previously higher priced item for a bargain! Plus... Free shipping inside the USA on all orders above $50. Lots of Buy-It-Now items in our store. Some meteorites starting at .99 cents. All Auctions & Store Items: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/freel3orn Visit Our Store: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Bits-Of-Earth-LLC All Meteorites: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Bits-Of-Earth-LLC_Meteorites_W0QQ_fsubZ18165848 Special Items: ------------------- 4963g Whole Stone - Large Chondrite Meteorite Specimen, Moderate to High Magnetism, Iron and chondrules visible through surface of stone. http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-Premium-Chondrite-Huge-Whole-Stone-4963g_W0QQitemZ250463529632 175g Nicely Crusted Corner Cut http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-CHONDRITE-FROM-SAHARA-CORNER-CUT-NWA-175-0g_W0QQitemZ260446785918 772.2g Whole Stone - Very good piece for cutting! I will most likely cut this piece and charge double if it does not sell soon. http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-Premium-NWA-Chondrite-LARGE-STONE-772-2g_W0QQitemZ250464932208 664.9g Whole Thumbprinted Stone - Pretty EGG SHAPED stone. http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-Premium-NWA-Chondrite-Large-Stone-664-9g_W0QQitemZ250464932198 337.6 Polished End Cut - NICE! http://cgi.ebay.com/METEORITE-Premium-Chondrite-POLISHED-END-CUT-337-6g_W0QQitemZ260446785945 -------------------- Remember shipping inside the USA is free on $50+ orders. I will combine shipping costs on overseas orders based on weight. Those who would like discounts, contact me for bulk purchases off-list. ALL bulk prices are negotiable and based on quantity. Thanks for looking & Happy Bidding! -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Wed Jul 15 15:47:12 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:47:12 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... Message-ID: Cool deal Jim! Beautifully done collectable's! __________________________ Michael Johnson http://www.spacerocksinc.com http://www.rocksfromspace.org http://www.sikhote-alin.org In a message dated 7/15/2009 3:35:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nwa482 at comcast.net writes: Hi Steve,,,,,,, In your enthusiasm to strike a fatal blow to your arch nemesis in the meteorite world you forgot one important fact. The meteorite coins/tokens/medals (or whatever everyone wants to call them) are truly limited edition. There will only be ONE #420 of the Campo coin or any other medal that has been struck using a reputable company using a mold and die process. This is the main difference from a piece of paper with a number written on it. I am not saying that you would make more than ONE #1 of any of your cases but in theory it could be easily done. Also, there are quite a few of us selling meteorite coins/medals/tokens so when you are taking a shot at these collectable's, well you are taking a shot at a lot of us. Just because I fell good about going on vacation for a week, I will give discount on all of my meteorite coins/medals/tokens for the next 24 hours. $20- each for the Campo and NWA 869 Medals and $70- each for the planetary Medals. Payment must be made by 5:00 Eastern Time on Thursday so that I can ship on my way to the airport on Friday. Worldwide shipping costs are included in the discounted price. Unfortunately, I can not take specific # orders on this short of notice. For those of you who like to call them coins go to this link: http://www.meteoritecoins.com For those of you who like to call them medals go to this link: http://www.meteoritemedals.com For those of you who like to call them tokens go to this link: http://www.meteoritetokens.com Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.imeteorites.com > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 13:13:54 -0400 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... > > Mike, > > Mint up some token/coins. Then glue some meteorites on them that are > worth about $0.02 each. Stamp #4 of 45 on the back of them and sell them for > $30.00. > > I know, at first you might think that anyone so stupid to do something > like selling a coin worth maybe $1 for $30 would only get people laughing at > them. And while I am sure you would think that would be a slimy "Billy > Mays" thing to do, maybe you should try it. I am sure no one will laugh at you > if you at least tried it. > > But, if you do something like that, be careful and not mention it on the > meteorite list, as there are some people on there that would attack you and > tell you it is stupid and that you are just trying to rip people off, and > they would try to get everyone else not to buy them. > > Steve Arnold ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Can love help you live longer? Find out now. (http://personals.aol.com/articles/2009/02/18/longer-lives-through-relationships/?ncid=emlweu slove00000001) From pshugar at clearwire.net Wed Jul 15 16:12:30 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:12:30 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men on TV again 4 times in next 3 days References: Message-ID: <18D7FC8C74254696A6CAAAA638090034@laptop> Is there anyone with either a DVD recorder or a VHS recorder that can record the show for me? I do not have cable so this will be the only way I can get to see it. Pete IMCA 1733 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:58 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men on TV again 4 times in next 3 days > Hello Folks, > > For any of you who missed the TV show "Meteorite Men," or for those of > you > who would like to watch it again, it is airing 4 more times over the next > 3 days on the Science Channel. > > Wed. July 15, 8:00 pm Eastern Time > Wed. July 15, 11:00 pm Eastern Time > Thurs. July 16, 3:00 pm Eastern Time > Fri. July 17, 3:00 am Eastern Time > > You can also check the listings here: > > http://science.discovery.com/tv-schedules/series.html?paid=48.15725.126184.3 > 6729.1 > > More info about the show can be found at: www.MeteoriteMen.com > > Enjoy! > > Steve Arnold > of "Meteorite Men" > > **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great > laptop deals from Dell! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 > 39%2D1629%2D4) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 16:24:22 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:24:22 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] UNWA Chondrules Galore - Blue ones, white ones, armored ones, and more. :) Message-ID: Hi List! Last night I cut open some small UNWA stones and got a couple of pleasant surprises. I cut about 30 stones last night - all of them the size of a walnut or smaller. Most of them were nothing to write home about (or write to the List about). But 2 were standouts. The first stone weighs about 10 grams and has a wind polished desert varnish on it - chondrules were visible on the surface, but I expected a matrix similar to NWA 869 - based on similar-looking stones I have cut. Instead, I saw a pleasant black matrix with abundant chondrules. The chondrules are packed tightly together and there are lots of metal veins that snake around between the chondrules. A couple of the chondrules are "armored" with perfect rings of metal around them. Based on this stone's metal content, magnetic attraction, and abundant chondrules, I am thinking it might be an H3. Does anyone have any comments? Could it be a metal-rich carbonaceous type? Sanding a slice to 320 grit produced a decent shine and removed the saw marks, but didn't enhance the chondrules much - it might the white ones stand out more, but the others became harder to see. I took photos of the polished slice and the unsanded slices. There is also a photo of the "main mass" stone. Closeup of sanded slice with armored chondrule - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/chondrules/slice-chondrules.jpg Sanded slice with armored chondrule - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/chondrules/slice-close-chondrules.jpg Unsanded slice - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/chondrules/slice-close-chondrules-rough.jpg Another - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/chondrules/slice-chondrules-rough-2.jpg Yet another rough slice -http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/chondrules/slice-chondrules-rough.jpg The "main mass" - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/chondrules/chondrules-stone.jpg ... The second interesting stone is chondrule rich. It has a reddish matrix with blue chondrules (and some others). It has the usual nickel-iron flecks, but there are also blebs of brassy troilite. Sanding a slice to 320 blurred the details, so this is another one that shows better without sanding. Red matrix troilite - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/chondrules/red-chondrules-troilite.jpg Closeup of red matrix slice - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/chondrules/red-chondrules-troilite-close3.jpg Another closeup - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/chondrules/red-chondrules-troilite-2.jpg ... Here is a 3rd stone that was unremarkable, except for this big honkin white chondrule - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/chondrules/honker.jpg ... Time to get a polarizer assembly! - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/chondrules/microscope.jpg .... Does anyone have any comments on what the pictured stones above might be? (type) The black one with armored chondrules might take a good polish - I have some finer sandpaper and rouge on the way. :) Best regards, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Wed Jul 15 16:29:27 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:29:27 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] New Arizona Meteorite Just Found! Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/New-Arizona-Meteorite-fall-2009.html __________________________ Michael D. Johnson http://www.spacerocksinc.com http://www.rocksfromspace.org http://www.sikhote-alin.org **************Can love help you live longer? Find out now. (http://personals.aol.com/articles/2009/02/18/longer-lives-through-relationships/?ncid=emlweu slove00000001) From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jul 15 16:54:25 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:54:25 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... Message-ID: Hello Jim, I am sorry if I didn't make this clear, but let me state it one more time. I have absolutely no problem with people selling limited edition meteorite coins or limited edition meteorite tokens or limited edition meteorite medals. Or limited edition meteorite anythings. I am all for it. I think it is a great idea. I might even see if we can make up some limited edition Meteorite Men coins. Maybe one for each episode. I however do have a problem with people that are hypocrites in slamming something else that is a limited edition that someone else is testing out. Is there a difference between the prototype line of limited edition meteorite specimens in a plastic case with a hand numbered ID and limited edition coins with a number stamped in it by a machine? Sure there is. Especially if the coin is legal tender and minted by a recognized government whereby there could be prison terms attached if someone is convicted of counterfeiting and trafficking in them. Could I make up ten #4 out of 6 ID cards for the Prototype Colony, OK CO3.0 Meteorite slab, and sell them under the table, because I am writing the numbers in by hand? Sure. Could someone with a non-legal tender tokens have ten #4 out of 420 tokens made up? Sure. Could someone with legal tender coins from a real country have ten #4 out of 420 coins minted...maybe, but probably not as likely due to the counterfeiting laws. Could someone have 100 grams of a meteorite that the Meteorite Bulletin says there is only 75 grams TKW in existence? Sure. I suppose it comes down to trust. As for your comment about my attempt to "strake a fatal blow to my arch nemesis in the meteorite world" I would have to take issue with that comment. I am under no delusion that my comments will make any significant impact in that arena. While he is on record that he sees this a "blood sport" to justify his "gladiator complex" I am just content at self defense. I have never said anything on the offense against him, only in defending against his delusional public comments. By the way Jim, I appreciate your marketing savvy to sneak in an AD for your coins, tokens and medals. I hope this thread helps you sell a few more of them! Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" In a message dated 7/15/2009 2:35:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, nwa482 at comcast.net writes: Hi Steve,,,,,,, In your enthusiasm to strike a fatal blow to your arch nemesis in the meteorite world you forgot one important fact. The meteorite coins/tokens/medals (or whatever everyone wants to call them) are truely limited edition. There will only be ONE #420 of the Campo coin or any other medal that has been struck using a reputable company using a mold and die process. This is the main difference from a piece of paper with a number written on it. I am not saying that you would make more than ONE #1 of any of your cases but in theory it could be easily done. Also, there are quite a few of us selling meteorite coins/medals/tokens so when you are taking a shot at these collectables, well you are taking a shot at a lot of us. Just because I fell good about going on vacation for a week, I will give discount on all of my meteorite coins/medals/tokens for the next 24 hours. $20- each for the Campo and NWA 869 Medals and $70- each for the planetary Medals. Payment must be made by 5:00 Eastern Time on Thursday so that I can ship on my way to the airport on Friday. Worldwide shipping costs are included in the discounted price. Unfortunately, I can not take specific # orders on this short of notice. For those of you who like to call them coins go to this link: http://www.meteoritecoins.com For those of you who like to call them medals go to this link: http://www.meteoritemedals.com For those of you who like to call them tokens go to this link: http://www.meteoritetokens.com Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.imeteorites.com **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 39%2D1629%2D4) From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Jul 15 17:42:51 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:42:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - July 15, 2009 Message-ID: <200907152142.n6FLgp8r024741@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES July 15, 2009 o Crater and Plains Deposit NW of Herschel Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007119_1700 o Disappearing and Shrinking Dome Dunes http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007080_2565 o Light-Toned Layers in Noctis Labyrinthus http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007035_1670 o Jeans Crater Dune Field Seasonal Monitoring http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007013_1105 o Fresh Crater on Floor of Pasteur Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_007004_2000 o Defrosting in Inca City http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011544_0985 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From marcin at meteoryt.net Wed Jul 15 18:22:44 2009 From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:22:44 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5205 LL3.2 - update References: <4A5BF9F4.8020702@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <010501ca059a$c6a64b90$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> Hello Most of specimens with incredible chondruls was sell, so I prepared new slices. This time there are both kind of chondruls. Large and small. Slices with small chondruls could be perfect for thin sections becouse on the same area You can have 2x more chondruls. In fact slices with small chondruls looks identical like slices with large chondruls. They are also packed one near others like sardines in can. http://www.PolandMET.com -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jul 15 19:28:30 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:28:30 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... Message-ID: In a message dated 7/15/2009 1:03:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time, meteoritehunter at comcast.net writes: Steve even a monkey would understand the difference between a minted coin with numbers stamped on and a plastic box with handwritten paper. By the way we many thousands for each limited edition coin. So yes no one would deny that the meteorite is not worth anything to speak of but the work in making the coin cost plenty. We sell enogh of them that is for sure. Michael Farmer ********* Mike, You don't get it do you? I have no problem with making and selling meteorite coins as collectibles. Never once have you ever heard me say anything bad about them. In fact, we might just mint a Meteorite Men collectible coin now that I am thinking about it, especially if you promise to get mad about it and come here on the list and help promote it by saying it is a stupid "Billy Mays" idea. My point was to sarcastically point out that you are a big hypocrite in just about everything thing you do. I am sure someone with more free time than I have could go back in the archives and pull out all kinds of things that you come on here and vomit about, spewing your vile hatred and jealousies about, when you have done some of the same things yourself. In the big scheme of things, putting a meteorites in plastic holders and assigning a limited edition numbers is not that evil of a thing to do. Really Mike, it isn't that bad. We as dealers often promote the Total Known Weight (TKW) and the Total Available Weight (TAW) outside of public collections as a factor in helping people determine how rare something is. Nininger made up things like the Canyon Diablo Stars. Are you telling me that if the Nininger Stars had a piece of paper on them with a hand written limited edition number on them, it would not help their values as collectibles? Would it have helped Nininger sell more back then if he did? Probably not...but maybe. Will they help me sell more now? Probably not...but maybe. So why not do it? It takes more time to make up each one that way, but my guess is that if I had one up that was not limited and an identical one up that was part of a limited edition, the limited edition one would bring a bit of a premium. You think it is stupid. I think, why not do it, just in case it isn't stupid? If it doesn't help, all I am out is a little extra time in individualizing each one. So as a dealer today, what is wrong with me saying I am only going to selling 6 pieces of Colony in the slabs, and that is it. Or I am only selling 7 of Delaware, AR? Do you ever come on the list and say "Only one remaining"? Or "Only 3 complete slices will come from this specimen? You do it all the time. All the time. Yet you and your Tourette's Syndrome of the finger tips just can't hold back from coming on here and bashing me every chance you get. It is actually getting quite flattering Mike. And then you can't resist telling me that people are "laughing at me" as if that would really matter to me. If I was insecure and obsessively worried about what people think about me and that people might be laughing at me (like some people must obviously be) then maybe it would bother me. But I don't really care if people laugh at me. In fact, the comedian in me kind of likes the idea that people are laughing. Besides, getting advice from you on how I should act to avoid other people laughing behind my back is, well...ironic at best, considering the source. At worst, it is like how the Republican leaders come on the TV and give advice to the Democrats to tell them what they need to do if the Democrats want to get reelected. So rest assured Mike, you don't have to come on here and defend yourself as to why minting coins is a good idea. I like the idea. I was just using irony to get my point across. Someone suggested that I should sell one of the T-shirts I wore on the TV show on Ebay, just to tweak you even more. I could number it #1 of 1. What do you think Mike? Would I get more than $1 for it? If you promise to get mad, and promote it on the list for me, I will put the T-shirt up for sale, just for you. Oh, and for the rest of you, FYI the president of the Science Channel has inquired with us about the possibility of selling meteorites from Discovery's website, maybe even promoting them on our show. Testing out a possible idea on a small scale is not always considered a "stupid" idea before suggesting rolling out thousands of something. Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 39%2D1629%2D4) From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Wed Jul 15 19:48:08 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:48:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... Message-ID: <491198.98336.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Ok Steve you win I lose this game. I will sit back and watch from now on for the good of us all. Too happy right now to argue. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 4:28 PM, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: In a message dated 7/15/2009 1:03:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time, meteoritehunter at comcast.net writes: Steve even a monkey would understand the difference between a minted coin with numbers stamped on and a plastic box with handwritten paper. By the way we many thousands for each limited edition coin. So yes no one would deny that the meteorite is not worth anything to speak of but the work in making the coin cost plenty. We sell enogh of them that is for sure. Michael Farmer ********* Mike, You don't get it do you? I have no problem with making and selling meteorite coins as collectibles. Never once have you ever heard me say anything bad about them. In fact, we might just mint a Meteorite Men collectible coin now that I am thinking about it, especially if you promise to get mad about it and come here on the list and help promote it by saying it is a stupid "Billy Mays" idea. My point was to sarcastically point out that you are a big hypocrite in just about everything thing you do. I am sure someone with more free time than I have could go back in the archives and pull out all kinds of things that you come on here and vomit about, spewing your vile hatred and jealousies about, when you have done some of the same things yourself. In the big scheme of things, putting a meteorites in plastic holders and assigning a limited edition numbers is not that evil of a thing to do. Really Mike, it isn't that bad. We as dealers often promote the Total Known Weight (TKW) and the Total Available Weight (TAW) outside of public collections as a factor in helping people determine how rare something is. Nininger made up things like the Canyon Diablo Stars. Are you telling me that if the Nininger Stars had a piece of paper on them with a hand written limited edition number on them, it would not help their values as collectibles? Would it have helped Nininger sell more back then if he did? Probably not...but maybe. Will they help me sell more now? Probably not...but maybe. So why not do it? It takes more time to make up each one that way, but my guess is that if I had one up that was not limited and an identical one up that was part of a limited edition, the limited edition one would bring a bit of a premium. You think it is stupid. I think, why not do it, just in case it isn't stupid? If it doesn't help, all I am out is a little extra time in individualizing each one. So as a dealer today, what is wrong with me saying I am only going to selling 6 pieces of Colony in the slabs, and that is it. Or I am only selling 7 of Delaware, AR? Do you ever come on the list and say "Only one remaining"? Or "Only 3 complete slices will come from this specimen? You do it all the time. All the time. Yet you and your Tourette's Syndrome of the finger tips just can't hold back from coming on here and bashing me every chance you get. It is actually getting quite flattering Mike. And then you can't resist telling me that people are "laughing at me" as if that would really matter to me. If I was insecure and obsessively worried about what people think about me and that people might be laughing at me (like some people must obviously be) then maybe it would bother me. But I don't really care if people laugh at me. In fact, the comedian in me kind of likes the idea that people are laughing. Besides, getting advice from you on how I should act to avoid other people laughing behind my back is, well...ironic at best, considering the source. At worst, it is like how the Republican leaders come on the TV and give advice to the Democrats to tell them what they need to do if the Democrats want to get reelected. So rest assured Mike, you don't have to come on here and defend yourself as to why minting coins is a good idea. I like the idea. I was just using irony to get my point across. Someone suggested that I should sell one of the T-shirts I wore on the TV show on Ebay, just to tweak you even more. I could number it #1 of 1. What do you think Mike? Would I get more than $1 for it? If you promise to get mad, and promote it on the list for me, I will put the T-shirt up for sale, just for you. Oh, and for the rest of you, FYI the president of the Science Channel has inquired with us about the possibility of selling meteorites from Discovery's website, maybe even promoting them on our show. Testing out a possible idea on a small scale is not always considered a "stupid" idea before suggesting rolling out thousands of something. Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 39%2D1629%2D4) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 19:56:41 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:56:41 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Asteroids and comets in the news Message-ID: Thanks Mike! That's really cool of you. Here's something I just found in the news: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090715/sc_afp/spaceasteroids_20090715172011 Carl _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jul 15 19:55:03 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:55:03 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000a01ca05a7$ac9dcae0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Sometimes I understand, why scientists and also some of the newer collector generation regard us dealers as a lousy rabble... You cannot be serious! To contend with eachother about boxes and coins? Hint, don't continue, that damages your brands as mighty meteorite hunters... I'd say. Coke or Pepsi - there are people, who drink both... Cheers. Martin From dave at fallingrocks.com Wed Jul 15 19:56:21 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:56:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8403E985701940268CFF75EA95650F3E@meteorroom> Steve, My stepson has Tourette Syndrome. Thankfully not coprolalia...yet, anyway. But c'mon... DG -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of MeteorHntr at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 7:29 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD,New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... In a message dated 7/15/2009 1:03:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time, meteoritehunter at comcast.net writes: Steve even a monkey would understand the difference between a minted coin with numbers stamped on and a plastic box with handwritten paper. By the way we many thousands for each limited edition coin. So yes no one would deny that the meteorite is not worth anything to speak of but the work in making the coin cost plenty. We sell enogh of them that is for sure. Michael Farmer ********* Mike, You don't get it do you? I have no problem with making and selling meteorite coins as collectibles. Never once have you ever heard me say anything bad about them. In fact, we might just mint a Meteorite Men collectible coin now that I am thinking about it, especially if you promise to get mad about it and come here on the list and help promote it by saying it is a stupid "Billy Mays" idea. My point was to sarcastically point out that you are a big hypocrite in just about everything thing you do. I am sure someone with more free time than I have could go back in the archives and pull out all kinds of things that you come on here and vomit about, spewing your vile hatred and jealousies about, when you have done some of the same things yourself. In the big scheme of things, putting a meteorites in plastic holders and assigning a limited edition numbers is not that evil of a thing to do. Really Mike, it isn't that bad. We as dealers often promote the Total Known Weight (TKW) and the Total Available Weight (TAW) outside of public collections as a factor in helping people determine how rare something is. Nininger made up things like the Canyon Diablo Stars. Are you telling me that if the Nininger Stars had a piece of paper on them with a hand written limited edition number on them, it would not help their values as collectibles? Would it have helped Nininger sell more back then if he did? Probably not...but maybe. Will they help me sell more now? Probably not...but maybe. So why not do it? It takes more time to make up each one that way, but my guess is that if I had one up that was not limited and an identical one up that was part of a limited edition, the limited edition one would bring a bit of a premium. You think it is stupid. I think, why not do it, just in case it isn't stupid? If it doesn't help, all I am out is a little extra time in individualizing each one. So as a dealer today, what is wrong with me saying I am only going to selling 6 pieces of Colony in the slabs, and that is it. Or I am only selling 7 of Delaware, AR? Do you ever come on the list and say "Only one remaining"? Or "Only 3 complete slices will come from this specimen? You do it all the time. All the time. Yet you and your Tourette's Syndrome of the finger tips just can't hold back from coming on here and bashing me every chance you get. It is actually getting quite flattering Mike. And then you can't resist telling me that people are "laughing at me" as if that would really matter to me. If I was insecure and obsessively worried about what people think about me and that people might be laughing at me (like some people must obviously be) then maybe it would bother me. But I don't really care if people laugh at me. In fact, the comedian in me kind of likes the idea that people are laughing. Besides, getting advice from you on how I should act to avoid other people laughing behind my back is, well...ironic at best, considering the source. At worst, it is like how the Republican leaders come on the TV and give advice to the Democrats to tell them what they need to do if the Democrats want to get reelected. So rest assured Mike, you don't have to come on here and defend yourself as to why minting coins is a good idea. I like the idea. I was just using irony to get my point across. Someone suggested that I should sell one of the T-shirts I wore on the TV show on Ebay, just to tweak you even more. I could number it #1 of 1. What do you think Mike? Would I get more than $1 for it? If you promise to get mad, and promote it on the list for me, I will put the T-shirt up for sale, just for you. Oh, and for the rest of you, FYI the president of the Science Channel has inquired with us about the possibility of selling meteorites from Discovery's website, maybe even promoting them on our show. Testing out a possible idea on a small scale is not always considered a "stupid" idea before suggesting rolling out thousands of something. Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 39%2D1629%2D4) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From dave at fallingrocks.com Wed Jul 15 19:59:09 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:59:09 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day In-Reply-To: <1827539758.1785771247669735847.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <1827539758.1785771247669735847.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <2A34A3F10E21456B8A48E8D0DBE45F91@meteorroom> Jim/All, Ditto! A terrific part of the list, but by no means free for Michael... All best, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jim Strope Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:56 AM To: Meteorite Central Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day Keep up the good work Michael. You provide a valuable service for all of us to share specimens with each other without asking for any "pat on the back" Hopefully we are all helping support your work by clicking on the paypal donation button! Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV ?26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ ? > To: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu; mlblood at cox.net > From: spacerocksinc at aol.com > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:31:53 +0000 > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - > July 15, 2009 > > Rocks from Space is now back on line! > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/ > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jul 15 20:17:39 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:17:39 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... Message-ID: In a message dated 7/15/2009 7:04:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dave at fallingrocks.com writes: Steve, My stepson has Tourette Syndrome. Thankfully not coprolalia...yet, anyway. But c'mon... DG ******* Dave, My apologies go out. I did not intend to insult anyone with Tourette's Syndrome (especially your stepson) by insinuating that they might be on the level of Mike's recent behavior. Besides, Mike has called a truce and promised not to fight anymore, and I am sure he is a man of his word. We can all live peaceably now. Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 39%2D1629%2D4) From dave at fallingrocks.com Wed Jul 15 20:20:33 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:20:33 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D348F86266E42B6A45D3BA42139144A@meteorroom> I owe an apology to the group too, as I did not mean to "Reply All" with that response. Geez...sorry about that, gang... Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: MeteorHntr at aol.com [mailto:MeteorHntr at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 8:18 PM To: dave at fallingrocks.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... In a message dated 7/15/2009 7:04:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dave at fallingrocks.com writes: Steve, My stepson has Tourette Syndrome. Thankfully not coprolalia...yet, anyway. But c'mon... DG ******* Dave, My apologies go out. I did not intend to insult anyone with Tourette's Syndrome (especially your stepson) by insinuating that they might be on the level of Mike's recent behavior. Besides, Mike has called a truce and promised not to fight anymore, and I am sure he is a man of his word. We can all live peaceably now. Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 39%2D1629%2D4) From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 15 21:04:19 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:04:19 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thu... In-Reply-To: <000a01ca05a7$ac9dcae0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <000a01ca05a7$ac9dcae0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <50CFB26C-F68E-4790-B6CD-39B383C70247@gilanet.com> Hey, I prefer coke when I decide to drink that crap, but sometimes I will go with a pepsi. Both sodas are crap in my opinion. I once used a can of coke to clean my battery cables that were caked with terminal build- up. I once saw a pepsi can (I believe) used in a photograph to show how big a chondrite was. I believe Jim Strope did that once. I have taken the drink of both. How many people on the list can drink either Pepsi or Coke, I wonder? Best Wishes Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 4:55 PM, Martin Altmann wrote: > Sometimes I understand, why scientists and also some of the newer > collector > generation regard us dealers as a lousy rabble... > > You cannot be serious! To contend with eachother about boxes and > coins? > > Hint, don't continue, that damages your brands as mighty meteorite > hunters... I'd say. > > Coke or Pepsi - there are people, who drink both... > > Cheers. > Martin > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 15 21:14:26 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:14:26 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? Message-ID: Hello, This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? I am curious? Michael From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 21:29:17 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:29:17 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? Message-ID: Besides Nininger? You mean, still alive? Carl _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 From countdeiro at earthlink.net Wed Jul 15 21:05:28 2009 From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:05:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thursday Night Message-ID: <18398472.1247706328298.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> To all from a "newbie", What MikeG has published from the "peanut gallery" is pretty sage commentary. I'm one of the "newbies" who has been chasing sites on the web and crusing eBay buying "nickel and dime" specimens. Fact is, I have bought "nickel and dime" meteorites from Steve and Mike and MikeG and a half dozen other dealers on the "List" here, and in Europe and the Orient. That's where newbies start... and you know what happens after they have filled their cabinets with the cheap compulsory examples and read the right books, accessed the data banks, subscribed to the pubs and read your on line stories and "wowed" over your finds? Eventually, they have the good fortune to tap into the "List"..as I did a few weeks ago. What an amazing resource! The science is right there for me to read and see..and free! Wonderful dissertations by respected and credentialed professionals..the very names in the books. ( Incidentally, Martin's letters are in a class of their own.) Why, for a while there I thought I was back at Indiana U. in a graduate program...Well, at least until I started reading the contentious posts about the Arizona and the Pennslyvania falls and the ongoing "dust up" over the pros and cons of "hyping" the marketing of space rocks, the personal digs, ill concealed expressions of envy, borderline slanders and finger pointing... then I knew I was back in school...kindergarten. Count Deiro -----Original Message----- >From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks >Sent: Jul 15, 2009 12:47 PM >To: Michael Farmer >Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, MeteorHntr at aol.com >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thursday Night > >Hi Steve, Mike and List, > >>From the peanut gallery - > >Ok guys, enough is enough. This back and forth is making us all look >bad and making meteorites look bad by proxy. Newbies are going to >come here and think that space rocks infect people with Andromeda >Strain madness. > >Look, when I act up and say stupid things on the List, most people >ignore it. Who am I anyway? > >But you guys are the big names in the field - you guys are >representatives of the hobby. You are in magazines and on TV. I knew >who Steve Arnold and Mike Farmer were before I knew there were >different types of carbonaceous chondrites. So when you guys come on >the List and start going back and forth with general nastiness, it >carries more weight and grabs more attention than it would if I was >saying it. (or some other Johnny Come Lately) People are going to >think - so this how meteorite people behave, I think I'll go collect >pez dispensers now. > >Professional meteorite hunters (the successful ones, like you guys) >live a life the rest of us armchair chasers dream of - you get to >"work" by chasing space rocks and finding them. It beats the hell out >of getting up at 4:30am and running a forklift at a distribution >center or digging ditches for a living. (although, one could argue >that finding meteorites does involve some ditch digging) - you guys >are part of a very small brotherhood that gets to make a living from a >PASSION. How cool is that? To wake up in the morning and ENJOY the >idea of going to work. > >Steve is riding high on his Meteorite Men success right now - let him >have it. Damn, if the tables were turned, I'd like to think that any >of us wouldn't get our hides skinned because we revelled in our >success of finding meteorites. And I understand what Mike is saying >about too much hype - it what the radio does to new music - they run >it into the ground until you are sick of hearing it. But there is no >reason to carry out a public slapfight over this. Take it to private >email. Mike, I'm sure you have Steve's phone number - call him up and >bitch him out over the phone so we don't have to hear it. All you are >doing is alienating customers/newbies - which I'm sure you don't care >about because they are "nickel and dime" customers anyway. Actually, >if I was profit-minded, I'd be loving this - because for every newbie >you guys turn off, they come running to people like me - and I am more >than happy to sell them all of the nickel and dime meteorites they >want. > >I promised myself and the List, I'd keep my mouth shut and think >before hitting "send" - which I have done for a week now while this >continues on and on. So here you have it. > >Best regards and let's knock it off, > >MikeG > > >On 7/15/09, Michael Farmer wrote: >> >> Let me get this strait, so you put it in a box, and make a label saying it >> is from you, and all you do is put a number on it, say #4 of 45. >> Damn, can't believe I didn't think of that first. I have thousands of >> Allende fragments, (I used to buy kilos of them from the Mexicans direct >> until they ran out) I could really ramp up the gimmicks to try and squeeze >> another buck or two out of the buyer using their own stupidity against them. >> I am sure though, when they go to sell their box later that anyone with >> brains will say, hmmmm .35 gram fragment of Allende retails for about $3.00, >> so I offer you $1.00 and not "wow", this is a limited edition plastic box so >> let's call it $30.00. >> >> I don't know why you cant just sell what you own for what it is, and not try >> to "Billy Mays" it all daytime TV style. >> It is good for a laugh though. >> >> Michael Farmer >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > >-- >......................................................... >Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >Member of the Meteoritical Society. >Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >.......................................................... >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 15 21:35:34 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:35:34 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly clear that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the subject. Best Wishes Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: > Simple question. > > You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the particular > community just knows. > > And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just > reputation built on accomplishment. > > Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold > investigation, etc. > > Everyone just knows. > > Mark Grossman > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST > ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > >> Hello, >> >> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is >> the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >> >> I am curious? >> >> Michael >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jul 15 21:37:29 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 03:37:29 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001501ca05b5$fc5b1ed0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Not easy to answer. By weight, by different types, by different finds, by number of pieces, by importance of the finds.... ?? Does Antarctica count? Seems aside the environmental aspects easier to spot meteorites there (and it's out of competition, cause perhaps less sportmanslike, if you get all paid by public money). And we don't know, who of the Russians found exactly which stone in Oman and elsewhere. I'd guess in our times, it must be one of them. Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von michael cottingham Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009 03:14 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? Hello, This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? I am curious? Michael ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 15 21:37:50 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:37:50 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9503D559-BA1A-4460-B689-66A5363F6533@gilanet.com> Alive today... On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Carl 's wrote: > > > Besides Nininger? You mean, still alive? > > Carl > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 21:40:47 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:40:47 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Harvey Nininger, hands down. On 7/15/09, michael cottingham wrote: > Hello, > > This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is the > best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? > > I am curious? > > Michael > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 15 21:40:58 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:40:58 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <001501ca05b5$fc5b1ed0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <001501ca05b5$fc5b1ed0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Hello, Yes it would be very difficult to narrow it down. Many, many factors indeed! Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:37 PM, Martin Altmann wrote: > Not easy to answer. > By weight, by different types, by different finds, by number of > pieces, by > importance of the finds.... ?? > > Does Antarctica count? Seems aside the environmental aspects easier > to spot > meteorites there (and it's out of competition, cause perhaps less > sportmanslike, if you get all paid by public money). > > And we don't know, who of the Russians found exactly which stone in > Oman and > elsewhere. > I'd guess in our times, it must be one of them. > > Martin > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > michael > cottingham > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009 03:14 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST > ANDMOST > SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > Hello, > > This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is the > best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? > > I am curious? > > Michael > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 21:42:03 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:42:03 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If we limit it to the living, then my vote goes to Hopper the Dog. ;) On 7/15/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > Harvey Nininger, hands down. > > > On 7/15/09, michael cottingham wrote: >> Hello, >> >> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is the >> best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >> >> I am curious? >> >> Michael >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From markig at westnet.com Wed Jul 15 21:46:35 2009 From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:46:35 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? References: Message-ID: <750F7BE64CB0430B97E58F017222701A@QED> No - still true - look how many times Nininger was mentioned within the first few minutes of your post. If there is confusion, then THE best is yet to be determined! Mark Grossman ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" To: "Mark Grossman" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly clear > that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the subject. > > Best Wishes > > Michael > On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: > >> Simple question. >> >> You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the particular >> community just knows. >> >> And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just >> reputation built on accomplishment. >> >> Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold >> investigation, etc. >> >> Everyone just knows. >> >> Mark Grossman >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >> > > >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST >> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >> >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is the >>> best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >>> >>> I am curious? >>> >>> Michael >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 21:46:59 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:46:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? Message-ID: Man, I can name at least 10 people, maybe more, all in the US. Many can name many more in the world but I don't know them. Tough to name just one. Carl _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 From markig at westnet.com Wed Jul 15 21:29:39 2009 From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:29:39 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? References: Message-ID: Simple question. You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the particular community just knows. And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just reputation built on accomplishment. Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold investigation, etc. Everyone just knows. Mark Grossman ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > Hello, > > This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is the best > and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? > > I am curious? > > Michael > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 15 21:48:59 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:48:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <750F7BE64CB0430B97E58F017222701A@QED> References: <750F7BE64CB0430B97E58F017222701A@QED> Message-ID: <39A0D2BB-DFFA-4008-8B5B-E83CFFFBFCB0@gilanet.com> But Actually, Nininger did NOT personally find that many meteorites. That is the confusion. He is Great, I understand that, but as far as personal recoveries, where the hunter actually found the meteorite, Nininger found very, very few... Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: > No - still true - look how many times Nininger was mentioned within > the first few minutes of your post. > > If there is confusion, then THE best is yet to be determined! > > Mark Grossman > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" > > To: "Mark Grossman" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:35 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE > BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > >> Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly >> clear that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the >> subject. >> >> Best Wishes >> >> Michael >> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >> >>> Simple question. >>> >>> You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the particular >>> community just knows. >>> >>> And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just >>> reputation built on accomplishment. >>> >>> Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold >>> investigation, etc. >>> >>> Everyone just knows. >>> >>> Mark Grossman >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >> > >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>> >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is >>>> the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >>>> >>>> I am curious? >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> > From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 21:50:54 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:50:54 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <39A0D2BB-DFFA-4008-8B5B-E83CFFFBFCB0@gilanet.com> References: <750F7BE64CB0430B97E58F017222701A@QED> <39A0D2BB-DFFA-4008-8B5B-E83CFFFBFCB0@gilanet.com> Message-ID: Nininger found very, very few... If you count several hundred (or thousands) Canyon Diablos as a few. ;) On 7/15/09, michael cottingham wrote: > But Actually, Nininger did NOT personally find that many meteorites. > That is the confusion. He is Great, I understand that, but as far as > personal recoveries, where the hunter actually found the meteorite, > Nininger found very, very few... > > Michael > On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: > >> No - still true - look how many times Nininger was mentioned within >> the first few minutes of your post. >> >> If there is confusion, then THE best is yet to be determined! >> >> Mark Grossman >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >> > > >> To: "Mark Grossman" >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >> >> >>> Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly >>> clear that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the >>> subject. >>> >>> Best Wishes >>> >>> Michael >>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>> >>>> Simple question. >>>> >>>> You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the particular >>>> community just knows. >>>> >>>> And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just >>>> reputation built on accomplishment. >>>> >>>> Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold >>>> investigation, etc. >>>> >>>> Everyone just knows. >>>> >>>> Mark Grossman >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>> >>> > >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is >>>>> the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >>>>> >>>>> I am curious? >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 15 21:53:59 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:53:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: <750F7BE64CB0430B97E58F017222701A@QED> <39A0D2BB-DFFA-4008-8B5B-E83CFFFBFCB0@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <314A083E-BC86-45B5-86C7-D41BCCBB6BBB@gilanet.com> and I found 27 kilos of small Imilac's one time, with about 4,000 individuals total. However, It counts as one... Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > Nininger found very, very few... > > If you count several hundred (or thousands) Canyon Diablos as a > few. ;) > > > > > On 7/15/09, michael cottingham wrote: >> But Actually, Nininger did NOT personally find that many meteorites. >> That is the confusion. He is Great, I understand that, but as far as >> personal recoveries, where the hunter actually found the meteorite, >> Nininger found very, very few... >> >> Michael >> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >> >>> No - still true - look how many times Nininger was mentioned within >>> the first few minutes of your post. >>> >>> If there is confusion, then THE best is yet to be determined! >>> >>> Mark Grossman >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>> >>> >>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:35 PM >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>> >>> >>>> Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly >>>> clear that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the >>>> subject. >>>> >>>> Best Wishes >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>> >>>>> Simple question. >>>>> >>>>> You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the particular >>>>> community just knows. >>>>> >>>>> And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just >>>>> reputation built on accomplishment. >>>>> >>>>> Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold >>>>> investigation, etc. >>>>> >>>>> Everyone just knows. >>>>> >>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To: >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM >>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is >>>>>> the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >>>>>> >>>>>> I am curious? >>>>>> >>>>>> Michael >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> >>> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... From markig at westnet.com Wed Jul 15 21:54:25 2009 From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:54:25 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? References: <750F7BE64CB0430B97E58F017222701A@QED> <39A0D2BB-DFFA-4008-8B5B-E83CFFFBFCB0@gilanet.com> Message-ID: You have the advantage on me here. But regardless, the concept holds true for whatever field. If you have to ask who is the best, and there is confustion in the particular community, THE best is yet to be determined. Holds true for meteorite hunters as well as any other professionals (in my opinion, that is!) Believe me, if there is a mold investigator who is the best without question, there is - or eventually will be - a meteorite hunter who everyone acknowledges is THE best. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" To: "Mark Grossman" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > But Actually, Nininger did NOT personally find that many meteorites. That > is the confusion. He is Great, I understand that, but as far as personal > recoveries, where the hunter actually found the meteorite, Nininger found > very, very few... > > Michael > On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: > >> No - still true - look how many times Nininger was mentioned within the >> first few minutes of your post. >> >> If there is confusion, then THE best is yet to be determined! >> >> Mark Grossman >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >> > > >> To: "Mark Grossman" >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:35 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST >> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >> >> >>> Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly clear >>> that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the subject. >>> >>> Best Wishes >>> >>> Michael >>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>> >>>> Simple question. >>>> >>>> You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the particular >>>> community just knows. >>>> >>>> And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just >>>> reputation built on accomplishment. >>>> >>>> Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold >>>> investigation, etc. >>>> >>>> Everyone just knows. >>>> >>>> Mark Grossman >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>> >>> > >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST >>>> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is the >>>>> best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >>>>> >>>>> I am curious? >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >> > From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 15 21:56:12 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:56:12 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: <750F7BE64CB0430B97E58F017222701A@QED> <39A0D2BB-DFFA-4008-8B5B-E83CFFFBFCB0@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <1890A304-0241-4D9F-8DE2-CBA7E858C160@gilanet.com> Hello, I can agree with what you say... I am now actually very curious about who the best mold investigator is though?!! Best Wishes Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:54 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: > You have the advantage on me here. > > But regardless, the concept holds true for whatever field. If you > have to ask who is the best, and there is confustion in the > particular community, THE best is yet to be determined. > > Holds true for meteorite hunters as well as any other professionals > (in my opinion, that is!) > > Believe me, if there is a mold investigator who is the best without > question, there is - or eventually will be - a meteorite hunter who > everyone acknowledges is THE best. > > Mark > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" > > To: "Mark Grossman" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:48 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE > BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > >> But Actually, Nininger did NOT personally find that many >> meteorites. That is the confusion. He is Great, I understand that, >> but as far as personal recoveries, where the hunter actually found >> the meteorite, Nininger found very, very few... >> >> Michael >> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >> >>> No - still true - look how many times Nininger was mentioned >>> within the first few minutes of your post. >>> >>> If there is confusion, then THE best is yet to be determined! >>> >>> Mark Grossman >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >> > >>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:35 PM >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS >>> THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>> >>> >>>> Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly >>>> clear that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the >>>> subject. >>>> >>>> Best Wishes >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>> >>>>> Simple question. >>>>> >>>>> You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the >>>>> particular community just knows. >>>>> >>>>> And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just >>>>> reputation built on accomplishment. >>>>> >>>>> Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold >>>>> investigation, etc. >>>>> >>>>> Everyone just knows. >>>>> >>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>> > >>>>> To: >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM >>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who >>>>>> is the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >>>>>> >>>>>> I am curious? >>>>>> >>>>>> Michael >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> >>> > From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 21:56:26 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:56:26 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hello Count Deiro Message-ID: Welcome Count. I'm a newbie, too. You say you bought from Mike, Steve and the others- then you should know they're just kidding around. They do this every so often just to fool people looking in. One big happy family we are!:-D Really! Carl Count Deiro wrote: >To all from a "newbie", What MikeG has published from the "peanut gallery" is pretty sage commentary... _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 22:02:18 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:02:18 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <314A083E-BC86-45B5-86C7-D41BCCBB6BBB@gilanet.com> References: <750F7BE64CB0430B97E58F017222701A@QED> <39A0D2BB-DFFA-4008-8B5B-E83CFFFBFCB0@gilanet.com> <314A083E-BC86-45B5-86C7-D41BCCBB6BBB@gilanet.com> Message-ID: Aaaah. You got me there. In terms of localities, then it's probably someone currently alive. Then I'd hazard to say Bob Haag - for taking Nininger's methods worldwide. BTW, does Bob still hunt regularly and does he read this list? Best regards, MikeG On 7/15/09, michael cottingham wrote: > and I found 27 kilos of small Imilac's one time, with about 4,000 > individuals total. However, It counts as one... > > Michael > On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:50 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > >> Nininger found very, very few... >> >> If you count several hundred (or thousands) Canyon Diablos as a >> few. ;) >> >> >> >> >> On 7/15/09, michael cottingham wrote: >>> But Actually, Nininger did NOT personally find that many meteorites. >>> That is the confusion. He is Great, I understand that, but as far as >>> personal recoveries, where the hunter actually found the meteorite, >>> Nininger found very, very few... >>> >>> Michael >>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>> >>>> No - still true - look how many times Nininger was mentioned within >>>> the first few minutes of your post. >>>> >>>> If there is confusion, then THE best is yet to be determined! >>>> >>>> Mark Grossman >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>> >>>> >>>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:35 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>> >>>> >>>>> Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly >>>>> clear that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the >>>>> subject. >>>>> >>>>> Best Wishes >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Simple question. >>>>>> >>>>>> You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the particular >>>>>> community just knows. >>>>>> >>>>>> And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just >>>>>> reputation built on accomplishment. >>>>>> >>>>>> Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold >>>>>> investigation, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> Everyone just knows. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To: >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM >>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is >>>>>>> the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am curious? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>> >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> >> -- >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From aerolite at austin.rr.com Wed Jul 15 21:50:43 2009 From: aerolite at austin.rr.com (Brian) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:50:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? References: <001501ca05b5$fc5b1ed0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Reminds me of the movie "Apollo 13" when the media asked the first "7" who was the best astronaut and they all raised their hands. Brian Barnett ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" To: "Martin Altmann" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 8:40 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? Hello, Yes it would be very difficult to narrow it down. Many, many factors indeed! Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:37 PM, Martin Altmann wrote: > Not easy to answer. > By weight, by different types, by different finds, by number of pieces, > by > importance of the finds.... ?? > > Does Antarctica count? Seems aside the environmental aspects easier to > spot > meteorites there (and it's out of competition, cause perhaps less > sportmanslike, if you get all paid by public money). > > And we don't know, who of the Russians found exactly which stone in Oman > and > elsewhere. > I'd guess in our times, it must be one of them. > > Martin > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > michael > cottingham > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009 03:14 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST > ANDMOST > SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > Hello, > > This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is the > best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? > > I am curious? > > Michael > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Wed Jul 15 22:08:02 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:08:02 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] New Arizona Meteorite Fall - Update July 15, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/New-Arizona-Meteorite-fall-2009.html __________________________ Michael D. Johnson http://www.spacerocksinc.com http://www.rocksfromspace.org http://www.sikhote-alin.org **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 39%2D1629%2D4) From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 22:12:56 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:12:56 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Arizona Meteorite Fall - Update July 15, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No wonder Farmer was happy. I'd be loopy! Nice find. On 7/15/09, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com wrote: > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/New-Arizona-Meteorite-fall-2009.html > > __________________________ > > Michael D. Johnson > http://www.spacerocksinc.com > http://www.rocksfromspace.org > http://www.sikhote-alin.org > > **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great > laptop deals from Dell! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 > 39%2D1629%2D4) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From markig at westnet.com Wed Jul 15 22:13:38 2009 From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:13:38 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? References: <750F7BE64CB0430B97E58F017222701A@QED> <39A0D2BB-DFFA-4008-8B5B-E83CFFFBFCB0@gilanet.com> <1890A304-0241-4D9F-8DE2-CBA7E858C160@gilanet.com> Message-ID: Trust me, you don't want to know! I am an industrial hygienist, and the profession has changed so much over the years. It used to be about protecting worker health and safety - now so much of the profession is devoted to mold investigation, asbestos remediation and lead remediation. It frequently comes down to chasing the almighty dollar. Perhaps things will change with the new administration in Washington, but I really don't know. In any event, sorry to go off topic for a moment. Back to business - I am fairly new to the meteorite field, but the name Bob Haag comes to my mind. Whether this is a reasonable choice, I don't know. But this will give you an indication of who new people coming to the hobby think - right or wrong. I will leave it for others on the list to discuss the merits. But when I think of physics, I think Einstein. When I think of Chemistry, I think Lavoisier. Granted, these are deceased. But I feel really strongly about the concept. The great people, whoever they are and in whatever field, just become known by their accomplishments, regardless of any promotion and hype. If it's just promotion and hype, they are soon forgotten, so history becomes the ultimate judge. In any event, thanks for the question! Kind of interesting! Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" To: "Mark Grossman" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:56 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > Hello, > > I can agree with what you say... I am now actually very curious about who > the best mold investigator is though?!! > > Best Wishes > > Michael > On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:54 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: > >> You have the advantage on me here. >> >> But regardless, the concept holds true for whatever field. If you have >> to ask who is the best, and there is confustion in the particular >> community, THE best is yet to be determined. >> >> Holds true for meteorite hunters as well as any other professionals (in >> my opinion, that is!) >> >> Believe me, if there is a mold investigator who is the best without >> question, there is - or eventually will be - a meteorite hunter who >> everyone acknowledges is THE best. >> >> Mark >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >> > > >> To: "Mark Grossman" >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:48 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST >> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >> >> >>> But Actually, Nininger did NOT personally find that many meteorites. >>> That is the confusion. He is Great, I understand that, but as far as >>> personal recoveries, where the hunter actually found the meteorite, >>> Nininger found very, very few... >>> >>> Michael >>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>> >>>> No - still true - look how many times Nininger was mentioned within >>>> the first few minutes of your post. >>>> >>>> If there is confusion, then THE best is yet to be determined! >>>> >>>> Mark Grossman >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>> >>> > >>>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:35 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>> >>>> >>>>> Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly >>>>> clear that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the >>>>> subject. >>>>> >>>>> Best Wishes >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Simple question. >>>>>> >>>>>> You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the particular >>>>>> community just knows. >>>>>> >>>>>> And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just >>>>>> reputation built on accomplishment. >>>>>> >>>>>> Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold >>>>>> investigation, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> Everyone just knows. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>> >>>>> > >>>>>> To: >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM >>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is >>>>>>> the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am curious? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>> >>>> >> > From dfpens01 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 15 22:17:03 2009 From: dfpens01 at yahoo.com (David Pensenstadler) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Audio Files from Apollo Message-ID: <453132.55101.qm@web90307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List: Check out the link below for unheard audio from the Apollo missions. Dave July 15, 2009 John Yembrick Headquarters, Washington 202-358-0602 john.yembrick-1 at nasa.gov James Hartsfield Johnson Space Center, Houston 281-483-5111 james.a.hartsfield at nasa.gov MEDIA ADVISORY: M09-131 APOLLO 11 CONVERSATIONS EARTH DIDN'T HEAR NOW ONLINE AT NASA.GOV HOUSTON -- You're in a spacecraft, on a mission to land on the moon for the first time in history, and the microphone to Earth is off. What do you say? Now you can listen in on a NASA Web site and find out. As Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and Mike Collins flew on Apollo 11 to a lunar landing in July 1969, the world heard communications between the crew and Mission Control live as they happened. But Earth did not hear the private conversations between Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins, although they were recorded aboard the Command Module Columbia and Lunar Module Eagle. Those conversations now are available on the Internet. All the Apollo spacecraft had onboard voice recorders, activated during much of each mission to record the crew's conversations. The transcripts of those recordings were publicly released in the mid-1970s. Only recently were the actual onboard audio recordings from Apollo 11 digitized and made available on the Web. To listen to the recordings and view the transcript, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/apollo/40th/apollo11_audio.html For more information about the history of onboard recorders on the Apollo spacecraft and full transcripts of all mission recordings, visit: http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/history/mission_trans/apollo11.htm For a detailed list of NASA events that celebrate the 40th anniversary of Apollo 11, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/apollo40th From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jul 15 22:25:48 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:25:48 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] New Arizona Meteorite Fall - Update July 15, 2009 Message-ID: Amazing find Mike, Congratulations on such a great recovery! Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" In a message dated 7/15/2009 9:13:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time, meteoritemike at gmail.com writes: No wonder Farmer was happy. I'd be loopy! Nice find. **************Performance you need and the value you want! Check out great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081934x1201714279/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D819 39%2D1629%2D4) From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jul 15 22:32:50 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 04:32:50 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001ca05bd$b80a48c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Well Carl, It's because the Russians are so modest and don't attach much importance in public profiling. Uh all the lunars they found, the Martians, hundreds of finds in Oman, some of them where also in Libya before - and think to all the additional stuff Tsarev, Polujamki, Markovka, Brahin, Kainsaz, Vengerovo, Sikhote, Chinga, Dronino, Pallasovka, Seymchan + many more, even Muonionalusta, Morasko... I bet, if one would unleash the Russians in Australia, it wouldn't take longer than 2 years and we would have the first lunar strewnfield there. If I were an Australian meteoricist, I would be so clever to give them a contract - to pay them the trips (they work cheaper than any official expedition) and half of the finds for them, half for the crown, and soon the racks in the institutes would bow from the load of new meteorites. (But obviously that is undesired, as well as in Oman meanwhile. In a strange, strange world we're living.) May they live long like Nininger, then for sure they will get head of him and may they live prosper, more prosper than they do now and more as it was granted to Nininger. BTW how many finds exactly Nininger has in his record? Best! Martin PS: Most meteorites on Earth found by the people of Sahara, more than in Antarctica, but the finders are all nameless and maybe there are some unknown Niningers among them.... Nowadays we have a prohibition in several countries there and the locals shall not collect them anymore. The same sooner or later is expected for Morocco. Some scientists believe that they would be able to find all these meteorites in future by their own. They think they can replace the knowledge and experience and the willingness to suffer of the hundreds of local searchers there. The records so far are known, therefore I'd say, it's a case of featherbrained overestimation of their capabilities (and quite a disrespect of the local people, who delivered them all their stones before). Nininger in his times was often treated in a depreciatory way from the scientists' side - in as far the observations we can make today are not completely new (but at his times they were at least intelligent enough not to bar him from hunting) - so it will be for most of us a certain satisfaction to observe the parallelism going on, that in the next generation of meteoritics the names of the so successful finders of our days will be cherished, while the names of those, who will have ruined everything in having accomplished the bans and protectionist laws, will have been long forgotten in the footnotes of meteoritics. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Carl 's Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009 03:47 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? Man, I can name at least 10 people, maybe more, all in the US. Many can name many more in the world but I don't know them. Tough to name just one. Carl _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 22:35:10 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:35:10 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? Message-ID: Wait a minute! You found 4,000 Imilac individuals? Holy craps!! Carl Michael wrote: >and I found 27 kilos of small Imilac's one time, with about 4,000 individuals total. However, It counts as one... _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 15 22:36:27 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:36:27 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <85C64CF1-7FD0-413A-8D63-DFFDB187ED4B@gilanet.com> Hello, Yeah, most were .5 to 5 gram pieces. A few larger ones. Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 7:35 PM, Carl 's wrote: > > > Wait a minute! You found 4,000 Imilac individuals? Holy craps!! > > Carl > > Michael wrote: >> and I found 27 kilos of small Imilac's one time, with about 4,000 > individuals total. However, It counts as one... > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From erikfwebb at msn.com Wed Jul 15 22:42:41 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 19:42:41 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I can tell you why I think Sonny Clary and John Wolf are the most successfull hunters. John Wolf knows his detector as if he was born with it. He doesn't miss a meteorite in an area. He grids by eye and detector until every inch is covered. He is also a nice guy who sells his finds for penny's on the dollar just to have enough money to pay for gas and the next months beans to eat. Also doesn't stick his nose in anyone's business. Sonny Clary has many finds rare and common under his belt. He has boxes of ordinary chondrites and many rare pieces including the only achondrite to be found on this continent. Sonny keeps to himself but would help anyone. When I went to vegas for thanksgiving he invited my father and I to his house and gave me a lot of great advise and even showed us some good valleys to hunt in. These two guys are not only successful hunters but they help many people to become successful hunters unlike some of the selfish jerks who some might call successful. It doesn't matter if you find something special if no one wants to hear you open your smug ass mouth to talk about it. [Erik] > From: mikewren at gilanet.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:14:26 -0700 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > Hello, > > This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is the > best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? > > I am curious? > > Michael > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 15 22:57:49 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:57:49 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Most Successful Meteorite Hunter Message-ID: In my humble opinion, I would assume that the "Most Successful" meteorite hunter would be the person who has "hunted" and "found" the most separate individual named or to be named meteorites. I think if a person found 5,000 meteorites all from the same fall that those, unfortunately, that would only count as 1 named meteorite. The most successful would be whomever has the largest number of different meteorites. I'm pretty sure that is what Michael is talking about and I know he has found many. I honestly don't know what the tally is between Michael, Farmer, Haag, Aziz, and The Labennes or Nininger. Someone out there who is really good with figures can do that, Elton? would you like to take this one? I know you are very good with details and calculations. Is this a contest and will the winner please give away specimens of the largest meteorite find they discovered? Brian From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 15 23:04:45 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:04:45 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8DFBE7B7-455B-48CA-AE0D-7DAD3C6331E5@gilanet.com> I appreciate your feedback. The question I proposed does raise a lot more questions as to what a successful and "best" hunter is. Best Wishes Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 7:42 PM, Erik Fisler wrote: > > > > I can tell you why I think Sonny Clary and John Wolf are the most > successfull hunters. > > John Wolf knows his detector as if he was born with it. > He doesn't miss a meteorite in an area. He grids by eye and > detector until every inch is covered. He is also a nice guy > who sells his finds for penny's on the dollar just to have enough > money to pay for gas and the next months beans to eat. > Also doesn't stick his nose in anyone's business. > > Sonny Clary has many finds rare and common under his belt. > He has boxes of ordinary chondrites and many rare pieces > including the only achondrite to be found on this continent. > Sonny keeps to himself but would help anyone. When I went > to vegas for thanksgiving he invited my father and I to his house > and gave me a lot of great advise and even showed us some good > valleys to hunt in. > > These two guys are not only successful hunters but they help many > people to become successful hunters unlike some of the selfish jerks > who some might call successful. > > It doesn't matter if you find something special if no one wants to > hear > you open your smug ass mouth to talk about it. > > [Erik] > > >> From: mikewren at gilanet.com >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:14:26 -0700 >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >> BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >> >> Hello, >> >> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is the >> best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >> >> I am curious? >> >> Michael >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 15 23:15:30 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:15:30 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Best and most successful Message-ID: <0F5DD838612A4C08A2DBC6F917781F34@user6e6e286533> Ooops, Sorry, I forgot to add the Hupe brothers in there with the list. Someone please do the tally! thanks, and clear skies, happy hunting, and all that good stuff! Hope someone finds a new meteorite soon! Brian From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jul 15 23:20:45 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 05:20:45 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BESTAND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <8DFBE7B7-455B-48CA-AE0D-7DAD3C6331E5@gilanet.com> References: <8DFBE7B7-455B-48CA-AE0D-7DAD3C6331E5@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <000501ca05c4$68931900$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> O.k., we are! http://kuerzer.de/bestfinders -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von michael cottingham Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009 05:05 An: Erik Fisler Cc: meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BESTAND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? I appreciate your feedback. The question I proposed does raise a lot more questions as to what a successful and "best" hunter is. Best Wishes Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 7:42 PM, Erik Fisler wrote: From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 15 23:25:13 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:25:13 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Most Successful Meteorite Hunter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51874126-51D9-4487-BDDC-B3D5DD5950C2@gilanet.com> Hello, The question does raise a lot of questions, and I am not sure if quantity is the only deciding factor anymore. What makes a successful meteorite hunter? I personally don't think of myself as a meteorite hunter, unless I am actually in the field hunting meteorites. I guess you could have a question as to who personally has found the most individual meteorites? Like how many count wise. I personally would like to know who has found the most individuals ? However, this does not make them the BEST or Most successful meteorite hunter in the world. The number of overall finds is just a part of the equation...in my thinking at least. Best Wishes Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 7:57 PM, Brian Cox wrote: > In my humble opinion, I would assume that the "Most Successful" > meteorite hunter would be the person who has "hunted" and "found" > the most separate individual named or to be named meteorites. I > think if a person found 5,000 meteorites all from the same fall that > those, unfortunately, that would only count as 1 named meteorite. > The most successful would be whomever has the largest number of > different meteorites. I'm pretty sure that is what Michael is > talking about and I know he has found many. I honestly don't know > what the tally is between Michael, Farmer, Haag, Aziz, and The > Labennes or Nininger. Someone out there who is really good with > figures can do that, Elton? would you like to take this one? I know > you are very good with details and calculations. Is this a contest > and will the winner please give away specimens of the largest > meteorite find they discovered? > > Brian > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 15 23:26:58 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:26:58 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BESTAND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <000501ca05c4$68931900$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <8DFBE7B7-455B-48CA-AE0D-7DAD3C6331E5@gilanet.com> <000501ca05c4$68931900$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <09BCD6B0-969D-45A7-A84C-01014D03AC2D@gilanet.com> Beautiful! On Jul 15, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Martin Altmann wrote: > O.k., we are! > > http://kuerzer.de/bestfinders > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > michael > cottingham > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009 05:05 > An: Erik Fisler > Cc: meteorite-list > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE > BESTAND > MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > I appreciate your feedback. The question I proposed does raise a lot > more questions as to what a successful and "best" hunter is. > > Best Wishes > > Michael > On Jul 15, 2009, at 7:42 PM, Erik Fisler wrote: > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mojave_meteorites at cox.net Wed Jul 15 23:36:34 2009 From: mojave_meteorites at cox.net (Rob Matson) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:36:34 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BESTAND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Erik, > Sonny Clary has many finds rare and common under his belt. > He has boxes of ordinary chondrites and many rare pieces > including the only achondrite to be found on this continent. Sonny Clary is certainly high on the list of successful meteorite hunters with a prolific number of unpaired finds. However, I think you're forgetting quite a few North American achondrites: Monument Draw, TX - acapulcoite Superior Valley 014, CA - acapulcoite (found my list member Jason Utas) Tierra Blanca, TX - winonaite Winona, AZ - winonaite (of course) Kenna, NM - ureilite Roosevelt County 027, NM - ureilite (Skip Wilson find) Lafayette, IN - nakhlite Los Angeles, CA - shergottite (Bob Verish find) Frankfort, AL - howardite Melrose (b), NM - howardite Monticello, KT - howardite Washougal, WA - howardite Winterhaven, CA - howardite (I didn't even know about this one!) Plus a whole bunch of eucrites, five aubrites, and a couple diogenites. --Rob From carothersdl at gmail.com Wed Jul 15 23:34:21 2009 From: carothersdl at gmail.com (dave carothers) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:34:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? References: Message-ID: <2A219CDCDDCC4F339F424AD75B8B37CA@your291etg47cr> As you say, your question poses many more questions. To start with, someone who leads expeditions to find new meteorites. Someone who extensively documents their finds and provides said information and samples to the scientific community for further research. Someone, for example, like Dr Svend Buhl. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > Hello, > > This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is the best > and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? > > I am curious? > > Michael > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From geeg48 at msn.com Wed Jul 15 23:50:29 2009 From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:50:29 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hello Count Deiro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Carl, No, actually Mike and Steve (and others) aren't "just kidding around". I think they're just kidding around when they're acting civil. I'll tell you what, from one newbie to another, this is one discouraging community. Greg ---------------------------------------- > From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:56:26 -0700 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Hello Count Deiro > > > > > Welcome Count. I'm a newbie, too. You say you bought from Mike, Steve and the others- then you should know they're just kidding around. They do this every so often just to fool people looking in. One big happy family we are!:-D Really! > > Carl > > Count Deiro wrote: > >>To all from a "newbie", > What MikeG has published from the "peanut gallery" is pretty sage commentary... > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 15 23:50:41 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:50:41 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Most Successful Meteorite Hunter In-Reply-To: <42820CC8793641CB9560BFD759AB0CD5@user6e6e286533> References: <51874126-51D9-4487-BDDC-B3D5DD5950C2@gilanet.com> <42820CC8793641CB9560BFD759AB0CD5@user6e6e286533> Message-ID: Hello, No worries...I do not think you offended anyone. Thanks for the compliment, but I do not consider myself one of the great meteorite hunters, in fact, I made the choice of family over meteorites long ago. I can not justify leaving my children for any great lengths of time. If I had no children, well I think I would of moved to Morocco 10 years ago! Best Wishes Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 8:37 PM, Brian Cox wrote: > Yes, Michael, you are right. I didn't mean to offend anyone, and I > meant it in good spirits and the overall fact that I know the list > likes competition. > I have always thought of you as being at the top, but I honestly > don't know who has found the most and you are right about the > equation. > > Hope I didn't offend you in any way. > > have a good one! > > Brian > ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" > > To: "Brian Cox" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:25 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Most Successful Meteorite Hunter > > >> Hello, >> >> The question does raise a lot of questions, and I am not sure if >> quantity is the only deciding factor anymore. What makes a >> successful meteorite hunter? I personally don't think of myself as >> a meteorite hunter, unless I am actually in the field hunting >> meteorites. I guess you could have a question as to who >> personally has found the most individual meteorites? Like how many >> count wise. I personally would like to know who has found the most >> individuals ? However, this does not make them the BEST or Most >> successful meteorite hunter in the world. The number of overall >> finds is just a part of the equation...in my thinking at least. >> >> Best Wishes >> >> Michael >> On Jul 15, 2009, at 7:57 PM, Brian Cox wrote: >> >>> In my humble opinion, I would assume that the "Most Successful" >>> meteorite hunter would be the person who has "hunted" and "found" >>> the most separate individual named or to be named meteorites. I >>> think if a person found 5,000 meteorites all from the same fall >>> that those, unfortunately, that would only count as 1 named >>> meteorite. >>> The most successful would be whomever has the largest number of >>> different meteorites. I'm pretty sure that is what Michael is >>> talking about and I know he has found many. I honestly don't know >>> what the tally is between Michael, Farmer, Haag, Aziz, and The >>> Labennes or Nininger. Someone out there who is really good with >>> figures can do that, Elton? would you like to take this one? I >>> know you are very good with details and calculations. Is this a >>> contest and will the winner please give away specimens of the >>> largest meteorite find they discovered? >>> >>> Brian >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jul 15 23:53:50 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:53:50 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hello Count Deiro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, It can be for sure... you have to forget the people sometime and look at your meteorites! Best Wishes Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 8:50 PM, GREG LINDH wrote: > > > Carl, > > No, actually Mike and Steve (and others) aren't "just kidding > around". I think they're just kidding around when they're acting > civil. > I'll tell you what, from one newbie to another, this is one > discouraging community. > > Greg > > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:56:26 -0700 >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Hello Count Deiro >> >> >> >> >> Welcome Count. I'm a newbie, too. You say you bought from Mike, >> Steve and the others- then you should know they're just kidding >> around. They do this every so often just to fool people looking in. >> One big happy family we are!:-D Really! >> >> Carl >> >> Count Deiro wrote: >> >>> To all from a "newbie", >> What MikeG has published from the "peanut gallery" is pretty sage >> commentary... >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. >> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Wed Jul 15 23:57:34 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:57:34 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hello Count Deiro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6E9692A8-26D4-4DA0-931F-637487BED045@comcast.net> We are human beings we argue and sometimes even fight and then we get over it. I used to attend coin shows, believe me no different between dealers. Not that big a deal really. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 15, 2009, at 8:50 PM, GREG LINDH wrote: > > > Carl, > > No, actually Mike and Steve (and others) aren't "just kidding > around". I think they're just kidding around when they're acting > civil. > I'll tell you what, from one newbie to another, this is one > discouraging community. > > Greg > > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 18:56:26 -0700 >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Hello Count Deiro >> >> >> >> >> Welcome Count. I'm a newbie, too. You say you bought from Mike, >> Steve and the others- then you should know they're just kidding >> around. They do this every so often just to fool people looking in. >> One big happy family we are!:-D Really! >> >> Carl >> >> Count Deiro wrote: >> >>> To all from a "newbie", >> What MikeG has published from the "peanut gallery" is pretty sage >> commentary... >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. >> http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From geeg48 at msn.com Thu Jul 16 00:02:39 2009 From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:02:39 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: <750F7BE64CB0430B97E58F017222701A@QED> <39A0D2BB-DFFA-4008-8B5B-E83CFFFBFCB0@gilanet.com> <1890A304-0241-4D9F-8DE2-CBA7E858C160@gilanet.com> Message-ID: Hi Mark, I don't know whether Bob Haag is the best hunter/collector, but I can tell you that he is the nicest guy you could want to know, and that is a rare thing in the meteorite community. I met him at the Tucson show a couple of years ago and he knew that I was a newbie and that I couldn't even begin to afford the stuff he was selling, but he took *a lot* of his time and just talked and encouraged me. I'll tell you what, that is a *rare* thing to see in this community. Greg ---------------------------------------- > From: markig at westnet.com > To: mikewren at gilanet.com > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:13:38 -0400 > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > Trust me, you don't want to know! > > I am an industrial hygienist, and the profession has changed so much over > the years. It used to be about protecting worker health and safety - now so > much of the profession is devoted to mold investigation, asbestos > remediation and lead remediation. > > It frequently comes down to chasing the almighty dollar. > > Perhaps things will change with the new administration in Washington, but I > really don't know. > > In any event, sorry to go off topic for a moment. > > Back to business - I am fairly new to the meteorite field, but the name Bob > Haag comes to my mind. Whether this is a reasonable choice, I don't know. > But this will give you an indication of who new people coming to the hobby > think - right or wrong. I will leave it for others on the list to discuss > the merits. > > But when I think of physics, I think Einstein. When I think of Chemistry, I > think Lavoisier. Granted, these are deceased. > > But I feel really strongly about the concept. The great people, whoever > they are and in whatever field, just become known by their accomplishments, > regardless of any promotion and hype. If it's just promotion and hype, they > are soon forgotten, so history becomes the ultimate judge. > > In any event, thanks for the question! Kind of interesting! > > Mark > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "michael cottingham" > To: "Mark Grossman" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:56 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST > ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > >> Hello, >> >> I can agree with what you say... I am now actually very curious about who >> the best mold investigator is though?!! >> >> Best Wishes >> >> Michael >> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:54 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >> >>> You have the advantage on me here. >>> >>> But regardless, the concept holds true for whatever field. If you have >>> to ask who is the best, and there is confustion in the particular >>> community, THE best is yet to be determined. >>> >>> Holds true for meteorite hunters as well as any other professionals (in >>> my opinion, that is!) >>> >>> Believe me, if there is a mold investigator who is the best without >>> question, there is - or eventually will be - a meteorite hunter who >>> everyone acknowledges is THE best. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>> >>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:48 PM >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST >>> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>> >>> >>>> But Actually, Nininger did NOT personally find that many meteorites. >>>> That is the confusion. He is Great, I understand that, but as far as >>>> personal recoveries, where the hunter actually found the meteorite, >>>> Nininger found very, very few... >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>> >>>>> No - still true - look how many times Nininger was mentioned within >>>>> the first few minutes of your post. >>>>> >>>>> If there is confusion, then THE best is yet to be determined! >>>>> >>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>>>> Cc: >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:35 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly >>>>>> clear that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the >>>>>> subject. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best Wishes >>>>>> >>>>>> Michael >>>>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Simple question. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the particular >>>>>>> community just knows. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just >>>>>>> reputation built on accomplishment. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold >>>>>>> investigation, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Everyone just knows. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM >>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is >>>>>>>> the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am curious? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From markig at westnet.com Thu Jul 16 00:17:16 2009 From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:17:16 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? References: <750F7BE64CB0430B97E58F017222701A@QED> <39A0D2BB-DFFA-4008-8B5B-E83CFFFBFCB0@gilanet.com> <1890A304-0241-4D9F-8DE2-CBA7E858C160@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <7CF23DD5F04547A2A1BB200B13FF7E02@QED> I think what you say goes for any community. Certainly in the scientific ones. Take Robert Oppenheimer for example, who was director of the Manhattan project. A genius, and a charismatic figure. But he had a real caustic side also. If he felt that a student was asking an elementary question, he would humiliate him or her in front of the other students. But if he took a liking to you, it was completely different. Here was a man who did not win a Nobel prize, yet he supervised several Nobel prize winners. He was a man who was in charge of a billions of dollars worth of spending, but his only prior budgetary experience was at a university Department of Physics. In spite of all his genius and charisma, it was still his caustic side - the failure to treat all people who did not have his intelligence - the newcomers for lack of a better word - that was his downfall. No, I don't think the meteorite community is any different than other types of communities. You have all types of people. Some are more vocal than others. But the true greats - and they are few and far between in any field of endeavor - have the smarts as well as empathy for the people who they deal with - and they are not out to prove anything to anyone. The accomplishments speak louder than the words. Mark Grossman ----- Original Message ----- From: "GREG LINDH" To: Cc: "meteorite-list" Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 12:02 AM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? Hi Mark, I don't know whether Bob Haag is the best hunter/collector, but I can tell you that he is the nicest guy you could want to know, and that is a rare thing in the meteorite community. I met him at the Tucson show a couple of years ago and he knew that I was a newbie and that I couldn't even begin to afford the stuff he was selling, but he took *a lot* of his time and just talked and encouraged me. I'll tell you what, that is a *rare* thing to see in this community. Greg ---------------------------------------- > From: markig at westnet.com > To: mikewren at gilanet.com > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:13:38 -0400 > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST > ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > Trust me, you don't want to know! > > I am an industrial hygienist, and the profession has changed so much over > the years. It used to be about protecting worker health and safety - now > so > much of the profession is devoted to mold investigation, asbestos > remediation and lead remediation. > > It frequently comes down to chasing the almighty dollar. > > Perhaps things will change with the new administration in Washington, but > I > really don't know. > > In any event, sorry to go off topic for a moment. > > Back to business - I am fairly new to the meteorite field, but the name > Bob > Haag comes to my mind. Whether this is a reasonable choice, I don't know. > But this will give you an indication of who new people coming to the hobby > think - right or wrong. I will leave it for others on the list to discuss > the merits. > > But when I think of physics, I think Einstein. When I think of Chemistry, > I > think Lavoisier. Granted, these are deceased. > > But I feel really strongly about the concept. The great people, whoever > they are and in whatever field, just become known by their > accomplishments, > regardless of any promotion and hype. If it's just promotion and hype, > they > are soon forgotten, so history becomes the ultimate judge. > > In any event, thanks for the question! Kind of interesting! > > Mark > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "michael cottingham" > To: "Mark Grossman" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:56 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST > ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > >> Hello, >> >> I can agree with what you say... I am now actually very curious about who >> the best mold investigator is though?!! >> >> Best Wishes >> >> Michael >> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:54 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >> >>> You have the advantage on me here. >>> >>> But regardless, the concept holds true for whatever field. If you have >>> to ask who is the best, and there is confustion in the particular >>> community, THE best is yet to be determined. >>> >>> Holds true for meteorite hunters as well as any other professionals (in >>> my opinion, that is!) >>> >>> Believe me, if there is a mold investigator who is the best without >>> question, there is - or eventually will be - a meteorite hunter who >>> everyone acknowledges is THE best. >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>> >>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:48 PM >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST >>> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>> >>> >>>> But Actually, Nininger did NOT personally find that many meteorites. >>>> That is the confusion. He is Great, I understand that, but as far as >>>> personal recoveries, where the hunter actually found the meteorite, >>>> Nininger found very, very few... >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>> >>>>> No - still true - look how many times Nininger was mentioned within >>>>> the first few minutes of your post. >>>>> >>>>> If there is confusion, then THE best is yet to be determined! >>>>> >>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>>>> Cc: >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:35 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly >>>>>> clear that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the >>>>>> subject. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best Wishes >>>>>> >>>>>> Michael >>>>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Simple question. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the particular >>>>>>> community just knows. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just >>>>>>> reputation built on accomplishment. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold >>>>>>> investigation, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Everyone just knows. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> To: >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM >>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is >>>>>>>> the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am curious? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>> >>>>> >>> >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Thu Jul 16 00:22:32 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:22:32 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <7CF23DD5F04547A2A1BB200B13FF7E02@QED> References: <750F7BE64CB0430B97E58F017222701A@QED> <39A0D2BB-DFFA-4008-8B5B-E83CFFFBFCB0@gilanet.com> <1890A304-0241-4D9F-8DE2-CBA7E858C160@gilanet.com> <7CF23DD5F04547A2A1BB200B13FF7E02@QED> Message-ID: Hello, Well said... Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On Jul 15, 2009, at 9:17 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: > I think what you say goes for any community. Certainly in the > scientific ones. > > Take Robert Oppenheimer for example, who was director of the > Manhattan project. A genius, and a charismatic figure. But he had > a real caustic side also. If he felt that a student was asking an > elementary question, he would humiliate him or her in front of the > other students. But if he took a liking to you, it was completely > different. Here was a man who did not win a Nobel prize, yet he > supervised several Nobel prize winners. He was a man who was in > charge of a billions of dollars worth of spending, but his only > prior budgetary experience was at a university Department of Physics. > > In spite of all his genius and charisma, it was still his caustic > side - the failure to treat all people who did not have his > intelligence - the newcomers for lack of a better word - that was > his downfall. > > No, I don't think the meteorite community is any different than > other types of communities. You have all types of people. Some are > more vocal than others. But the true greats - and they are few and > far between in any field of endeavor - have the smarts as well as > empathy for the people who they deal with - and they are not out to > prove anything to anyone. The accomplishments speak louder than the > words. > > Mark Grossman > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "GREG LINDH" > To: > Cc: "meteorite-list" > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 12:02 AM > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE > BESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > > > > Hi Mark, > > I don't know whether Bob Haag is the best hunter/collector, but I > can tell you that he is the nicest guy you could want to know, and > that is a rare thing in the meteorite community. I met him at the > Tucson show a couple of years ago and he knew that I was a newbie > and that I couldn't even begin to afford the stuff he was selling, > but he took *a lot* of his time and just talked and encouraged me. > I'll tell you what, that is a *rare* thing to see in this community. > > Greg > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> From: markig at westnet.com >> To: mikewren at gilanet.com >> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:13:38 -0400 >> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >> >> Trust me, you don't want to know! >> >> I am an industrial hygienist, and the profession has changed so >> much over >> the years. It used to be about protecting worker health and safety >> - now so >> much of the profession is devoted to mold investigation, asbestos >> remediation and lead remediation. >> >> It frequently comes down to chasing the almighty dollar. >> >> Perhaps things will change with the new administration in >> Washington, but I >> really don't know. >> >> In any event, sorry to go off topic for a moment. >> >> Back to business - I am fairly new to the meteorite field, but the >> name Bob >> Haag comes to my mind. Whether this is a reasonable choice, I don't >> know. >> But this will give you an indication of who new people coming to >> the hobby >> think - right or wrong. I will leave it for others on the list to >> discuss >> the merits. >> >> But when I think of physics, I think Einstein. When I think of >> Chemistry, I >> think Lavoisier. Granted, these are deceased. >> >> But I feel really strongly about the concept. The great people, >> whoever >> they are and in whatever field, just become known by their >> accomplishments, >> regardless of any promotion and hype. If it's just promotion and >> hype, they >> are soon forgotten, so history becomes the ultimate judge. >> >> In any event, thanks for the question! Kind of interesting! >> >> Mark >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "michael cottingham" >> To: "Mark Grossman" >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >> BEST >> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >> >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I can agree with what you say... I am now actually very curious >>> about who >>> the best mold investigator is though?!! >>> >>> Best Wishes >>> >>> Michael >>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:54 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>> >>>> You have the advantage on me here. >>>> >>>> But regardless, the concept holds true for whatever field. If you >>>> have >>>> to ask who is the best, and there is confustion in the particular >>>> community, THE best is yet to be determined. >>>> >>>> Holds true for meteorite hunters as well as any other >>>> professionals (in >>>> my opinion, that is!) >>>> >>>> Believe me, if there is a mold investigator who is the best without >>>> question, there is - or eventually will be - a meteorite hunter who >>>> everyone acknowledges is THE best. >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>> >>>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:48 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS >>>> THE BEST >>>> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>> >>>> >>>>> But Actually, Nininger did NOT personally find that many >>>>> meteorites. >>>>> That is the confusion. He is Great, I understand that, but as >>>>> far as >>>>> personal recoveries, where the hunter actually found the >>>>> meteorite, >>>>> Nininger found very, very few... >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> No - still true - look how many times Nininger was mentioned >>>>>> within >>>>>> the first few minutes of your post. >>>>>> >>>>>> If there is confusion, then THE best is yet to be determined! >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>>>>> Cc: >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:35 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS >>>>>> THE >>>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly >>>>>>> clear that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the >>>>>>> subject. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best Wishes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Simple question. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the >>>>>>>> particular >>>>>>>> community just knows. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just >>>>>>>> reputation built on accomplishment. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold >>>>>>>> investigation, etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Everyone just knows. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am curious? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From markig at westnet.com Thu Jul 16 00:24:32 2009 From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:24:32 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Question For The List ???? WHO IS THEBESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? Message-ID: <1AD630EA69DA4CD18BF96F24771CB4A6@QED> OK Michael, in replying to the last message, it looks like I slipped up, and the truth has come out. In actuality , it was Robert Oppenheimer who was the most famous mold investigator of them all. :-) Mark Grossman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Grossman" To: "GREG LINDH" Cc: "meteorite-list" Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 12:17 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THEBESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >I think what you say goes for any community. Certainly in the scientific >ones. > > Take Robert Oppenheimer for example, who was director of the Manhattan > project. A genius, and a charismatic figure. But he had a real caustic > side also. If he felt that a student was asking an elementary question, > he would humiliate him or her in front of the other students. But if he > took a liking to you, it was completely different. Here was a man who did > not win a Nobel prize, yet he supervised several Nobel prize winners. He > was a man who was in charge of a billions of dollars worth of spending, > but his only prior budgetary experience was at a university Department of > Physics. > > In spite of all his genius and charisma, it was still his caustic side - > the failure to treat all people who did not have his intelligence - the > newcomers for lack of a better word - that was his downfall. > > No, I don't think the meteorite community is any different than other > types of communities. You have all types of people. Some are more vocal > than others. But the true greats - and they are few and far between in > any field of endeavor - have the smarts as well as empathy for the people > who they deal with - and they are not out to prove anything to anyone. > The accomplishments speak louder than the words. > > Mark Grossman > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "GREG LINDH" > To: > Cc: "meteorite-list" > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 12:02 AM > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE > BESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > > > > Hi Mark, > > I don't know whether Bob Haag is the best hunter/collector, but I can > tell you that he is the nicest guy you could want to know, and that is a > rare thing in the meteorite community. I met him at the Tucson show a > couple of years ago and he knew that I was a newbie and that I couldn't > even begin to afford the stuff he was selling, but he took *a lot* of his > time and just talked and encouraged me. I'll tell you what, that is a > *rare* thing to see in this community. > > Greg > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> From: markig at westnet.com >> To: mikewren at gilanet.com >> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:13:38 -0400 >> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST >> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >> >> Trust me, you don't want to know! >> >> I am an industrial hygienist, and the profession has changed so much over >> the years. It used to be about protecting worker health and safety - now >> so >> much of the profession is devoted to mold investigation, asbestos >> remediation and lead remediation. >> >> It frequently comes down to chasing the almighty dollar. >> >> Perhaps things will change with the new administration in Washington, but >> I >> really don't know. >> >> In any event, sorry to go off topic for a moment. >> >> Back to business - I am fairly new to the meteorite field, but the name >> Bob >> Haag comes to my mind. Whether this is a reasonable choice, I don't know. >> But this will give you an indication of who new people coming to the >> hobby >> think - right or wrong. I will leave it for others on the list to discuss >> the merits. >> >> But when I think of physics, I think Einstein. When I think of Chemistry, >> I >> think Lavoisier. Granted, these are deceased. >> >> But I feel really strongly about the concept. The great people, whoever >> they are and in whatever field, just become known by their >> accomplishments, >> regardless of any promotion and hype. If it's just promotion and hype, >> they >> are soon forgotten, so history becomes the ultimate judge. >> >> In any event, thanks for the question! Kind of interesting! >> >> Mark >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "michael cottingham" >> To: "Mark Grossman" >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST >> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >> >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I can agree with what you say... I am now actually very curious about >>> who >>> the best mold investigator is though?!! >>> >>> Best Wishes >>> >>> Michael >>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:54 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>> >>>> You have the advantage on me here. >>>> >>>> But regardless, the concept holds true for whatever field. If you have >>>> to ask who is the best, and there is confustion in the particular >>>> community, THE best is yet to be determined. >>>> >>>> Holds true for meteorite hunters as well as any other professionals (in >>>> my opinion, that is!) >>>> >>>> Believe me, if there is a mold investigator who is the best without >>>> question, there is - or eventually will be - a meteorite hunter who >>>> everyone acknowledges is THE best. >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>> >>>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:48 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>> BEST >>>> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>> >>>> >>>>> But Actually, Nininger did NOT personally find that many meteorites. >>>>> That is the confusion. He is Great, I understand that, but as far as >>>>> personal recoveries, where the hunter actually found the meteorite, >>>>> Nininger found very, very few... >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> No - still true - look how many times Nininger was mentioned within >>>>>> the first few minutes of your post. >>>>>> >>>>>> If there is confusion, then THE best is yet to be determined! >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>>>>> Cc: >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:35 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly >>>>>>> clear that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the >>>>>>> subject. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best Wishes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Simple question. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the particular >>>>>>>> community just knows. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just >>>>>>>> reputation built on accomplishment. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold >>>>>>>> investigation, etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Everyone just knows. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is >>>>>>>>> the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am curious? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From geeg48 at msn.com Thu Jul 16 00:24:43 2009 From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:24:43 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <7CF23DD5F04547A2A1BB200B13FF7E02@QED> References: <750F7BE64CB0430B97E58F017222701A@QED> <39A0D2BB-DFFA-4008-8B5B-E83CFFFBFCB0@gilanet.com> <1890A304-0241-4D9F-8DE2-CBA7E858C160@gilanet.com> <7CF23DD5F04547A2A1BB200B13FF7E02@QED> Message-ID: Hi Mark, I understand the points you made in your post and for the most part I agree with them. Your strongest point, and the one I agree with the most is the last sentence in your post. It follows: "But the true greats - and they are few and far between in any field of endeavor - have the smarts as well as empathy for the people who they deal with - and they are not out to prove anything to anyone. The accomplishments speak louder than the words." How right you are. Too bad there are so few that have both smarts *and* empathy - and aren't out to prove anything to anyone. Greg Lindh ---------------------------------------- > From: markig at westnet.com > To: geeg48 at msn.com > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:17:16 -0400 > > I think what you say goes for any community. Certainly in the scientific > ones. > > Take Robert Oppenheimer for example, who was director of the Manhattan > project. A genius, and a charismatic figure. But he had a real caustic > side also. If he felt that a student was asking an elementary question, he > would humiliate him or her in front of the other students. But if he took a > liking to you, it was completely different. Here was a man who did not win > a Nobel prize, yet he supervised several Nobel prize winners. He was a man > who was in charge of a billions of dollars worth of spending, but his only > prior budgetary experience was at a university Department of Physics. > > In spite of all his genius and charisma, it was still his caustic side - the > failure to treat all people who did not have his intelligence - the > newcomers for lack of a better word - that was his downfall. > > No, I don't think the meteorite community is any different than other types > of communities. You have all types of people. Some are more vocal than > others. But the true greats - and they are few and far between in any field > of endeavor - have the smarts as well as empathy for the people who they > deal with - and they are not out to prove anything to anyone. The > accomplishments speak louder than the words. > > Mark Grossman > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "GREG LINDH" > To: > Cc: "meteorite-list" > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 12:02 AM > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE > BESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > > > > Hi Mark, > > I don't know whether Bob Haag is the best hunter/collector, but I can tell > you that he is the nicest guy you could want to know, and that is a rare > thing in the meteorite community. I met him at the Tucson show a couple of > years ago and he knew that I was a newbie and that I couldn't even begin to > afford the stuff he was selling, but he took *a lot* of his time and just > talked and encouraged me. I'll tell you what, that is a *rare* thing to see > in this community. > > Greg > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> From: markig at westnet.com >> To: mikewren at gilanet.com >> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:13:38 -0400 >> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST >> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >> >> Trust me, you don't want to know! >> >> I am an industrial hygienist, and the profession has changed so much over >> the years. It used to be about protecting worker health and safety - now >> so >> much of the profession is devoted to mold investigation, asbestos >> remediation and lead remediation. >> >> It frequently comes down to chasing the almighty dollar. >> >> Perhaps things will change with the new administration in Washington, but >> I >> really don't know. >> >> In any event, sorry to go off topic for a moment. >> >> Back to business - I am fairly new to the meteorite field, but the name >> Bob >> Haag comes to my mind. Whether this is a reasonable choice, I don't know. >> But this will give you an indication of who new people coming to the hobby >> think - right or wrong. I will leave it for others on the list to discuss >> the merits. >> >> But when I think of physics, I think Einstein. When I think of Chemistry, >> I >> think Lavoisier. Granted, these are deceased. >> >> But I feel really strongly about the concept. The great people, whoever >> they are and in whatever field, just become known by their >> accomplishments, >> regardless of any promotion and hype. If it's just promotion and hype, >> they >> are soon forgotten, so history becomes the ultimate judge. >> >> In any event, thanks for the question! Kind of interesting! >> >> Mark >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "michael cottingham" >> To: "Mark Grossman" >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST >> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >> >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I can agree with what you say... I am now actually very curious about who >>> the best mold investigator is though?!! >>> >>> Best Wishes >>> >>> Michael >>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:54 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>> >>>> You have the advantage on me here. >>>> >>>> But regardless, the concept holds true for whatever field. If you have >>>> to ask who is the best, and there is confustion in the particular >>>> community, THE best is yet to be determined. >>>> >>>> Holds true for meteorite hunters as well as any other professionals (in >>>> my opinion, that is!) >>>> >>>> Believe me, if there is a mold investigator who is the best without >>>> question, there is - or eventually will be - a meteorite hunter who >>>> everyone acknowledges is THE best. >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>> >>>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:48 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST >>>> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>> >>>> >>>>> But Actually, Nininger did NOT personally find that many meteorites. >>>>> That is the confusion. He is Great, I understand that, but as far as >>>>> personal recoveries, where the hunter actually found the meteorite, >>>>> Nininger found very, very few... >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> No - still true - look how many times Nininger was mentioned within >>>>>> the first few minutes of your post. >>>>>> >>>>>> If there is confusion, then THE best is yet to be determined! >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>>>>> Cc: >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:35 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly >>>>>>> clear that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the >>>>>>> subject. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best Wishes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Simple question. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the particular >>>>>>>> community just knows. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just >>>>>>>> reputation built on accomplishment. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold >>>>>>>> investigation, etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Everyone just knows. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is >>>>>>>>> the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am curious? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From markig at westnet.com Thu Jul 16 00:30:02 2009 From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:30:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? References: <750F7BE64CB0430B97E58F017222701A@QED> <39A0D2BB-DFFA-4008-8B5B-E83CFFFBFCB0@gilanet.com> <1890A304-0241-4D9F-8DE2-CBA7E858C160@gilanet.com> <7CF23DD5F04547A2A1BB200B13FF7E02@QED> Message-ID: Yes, it is very, very sad that in all fields of endeavors, these type of people are so rare indeed. And I must say, that having pursued graduate school in chemistry, the scientists - just lilke the meteorite hunters, dealers and collectors as well -have the best and the worst, just like any other field of endeavor. Mark Grossman ----- Original Message ----- From: "GREG LINDH" To: Cc: "meteorite-list" Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 12:24 AM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? Hi Mark, I understand the points you made in your post and for the most part I agree with them. Your strongest point, and the one I agree with the most is the last sentence in your post. It follows: "But the true greats - and they are few and far between in any field of endeavor - have the smarts as well as empathy for the people who they deal with - and they are not out to prove anything to anyone. The accomplishments speak louder than the words." How right you are. Too bad there are so few that have both smarts *and* empathy - and aren't out to prove anything to anyone. Greg Lindh ---------------------------------------- > From: markig at westnet.com > To: geeg48 at msn.com > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE > BESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:17:16 -0400 > > I think what you say goes for any community. Certainly in the scientific > ones. > > Take Robert Oppenheimer for example, who was director of the Manhattan > project. A genius, and a charismatic figure. But he had a real caustic > side also. If he felt that a student was asking an elementary question, he > would humiliate him or her in front of the other students. But if he took > a > liking to you, it was completely different. Here was a man who did not win > a Nobel prize, yet he supervised several Nobel prize winners. He was a man > who was in charge of a billions of dollars worth of spending, but his only > prior budgetary experience was at a university Department of Physics. > > In spite of all his genius and charisma, it was still his caustic side - > the > failure to treat all people who did not have his intelligence - the > newcomers for lack of a better word - that was his downfall. > > No, I don't think the meteorite community is any different than other > types > of communities. You have all types of people. Some are more vocal than > others. But the true greats - and they are few and far between in any > field > of endeavor - have the smarts as well as empathy for the people who they > deal with - and they are not out to prove anything to anyone. The > accomplishments speak louder than the words. > > Mark Grossman > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "GREG LINDH" > To: > Cc: "meteorite-list" > Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 12:02 AM > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE > BESTANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > > > > Hi Mark, > > I don't know whether Bob Haag is the best hunter/collector, but I can tell > you that he is the nicest guy you could want to know, and that is a rare > thing in the meteorite community. I met him at the Tucson show a couple of > years ago and he knew that I was a newbie and that I couldn't even begin > to > afford the stuff he was selling, but he took *a lot* of his time and just > talked and encouraged me. I'll tell you what, that is a *rare* thing to > see > in this community. > > Greg > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> From: markig at westnet.com >> To: mikewren at gilanet.com >> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:13:38 -0400 >> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST >> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >> >> Trust me, you don't want to know! >> >> I am an industrial hygienist, and the profession has changed so much over >> the years. It used to be about protecting worker health and safety - now >> so >> much of the profession is devoted to mold investigation, asbestos >> remediation and lead remediation. >> >> It frequently comes down to chasing the almighty dollar. >> >> Perhaps things will change with the new administration in Washington, but >> I >> really don't know. >> >> In any event, sorry to go off topic for a moment. >> >> Back to business - I am fairly new to the meteorite field, but the name >> Bob >> Haag comes to my mind. Whether this is a reasonable choice, I don't know. >> But this will give you an indication of who new people coming to the >> hobby >> think - right or wrong. I will leave it for others on the list to discuss >> the merits. >> >> But when I think of physics, I think Einstein. When I think of Chemistry, >> I >> think Lavoisier. Granted, these are deceased. >> >> But I feel really strongly about the concept. The great people, whoever >> they are and in whatever field, just become known by their >> accomplishments, >> regardless of any promotion and hype. If it's just promotion and hype, >> they >> are soon forgotten, so history becomes the ultimate judge. >> >> In any event, thanks for the question! Kind of interesting! >> >> Mark >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "michael cottingham" >> To: "Mark Grossman" >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST >> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >> >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I can agree with what you say... I am now actually very curious about >>> who >>> the best mold investigator is though?!! >>> >>> Best Wishes >>> >>> Michael >>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:54 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>> >>>> You have the advantage on me here. >>>> >>>> But regardless, the concept holds true for whatever field. If you have >>>> to ask who is the best, and there is confustion in the particular >>>> community, THE best is yet to be determined. >>>> >>>> Holds true for meteorite hunters as well as any other professionals (in >>>> my opinion, that is!) >>>> >>>> Believe me, if there is a mold investigator who is the best without >>>> question, there is - or eventually will be - a meteorite hunter who >>>> everyone acknowledges is THE best. >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>> >>>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:48 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>> BEST >>>> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>> >>>> >>>>> But Actually, Nininger did NOT personally find that many meteorites. >>>>> That is the confusion. He is Great, I understand that, but as far as >>>>> personal recoveries, where the hunter actually found the meteorite, >>>>> Nininger found very, very few... >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> No - still true - look how many times Nininger was mentioned within >>>>>> the first few minutes of your post. >>>>>> >>>>>> If there is confusion, then THE best is yet to be determined! >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>>>>> Cc: >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:35 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly >>>>>>> clear that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the >>>>>>> subject. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best Wishes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Simple question. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the particular >>>>>>>> community just knows. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just >>>>>>>> reputation built on accomplishment. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold >>>>>>>> investigation, etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Everyone just knows. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is >>>>>>>>> the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am curious? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From jkg2 at cox.net Thu Jul 16 00:46:53 2009 From: jkg2 at cox.net (John Gwilliam) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:46:53 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thursday Night In-Reply-To: <18398472.1247706328298.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa .earthlink.net> References: <18398472.1247706328298.JavaMail.root@elwamui-polski.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20090716044704.TKT28095.fed1rmmtao101.cox.net@fed1rmimpo01.cox.net> Both these guys are grown men who don't mind saying what they think. Their latest "go round" was pretty bland. You should have been here seven or eight years ago when Michael Casper was an active participant. Truly an ego on steroids...and lithium. Best, John At 06:05 PM 7/15/2009, countdeiro at earthlink.net wrote: >To all from a "newbie", > >What MikeG has published from the "peanut gallery" is pretty sage >commentary. I'm one of the "newbies" who has been chasing sites on >the web and crusing eBay buying "nickel and dime" specimens. Fact >is, I have bought "nickel and dime" meteorites from Steve and Mike >and MikeG and a half dozen other dealers on the "List" here, and in >Europe and the Orient. That's where newbies start... and you know >what happens after they have filled their cabinets with the cheap >compulsory examples and read the right books, accessed the data >banks, subscribed to the pubs and read your on line stories and >"wowed" over your finds? Eventually, they have the good fortune to >tap into the "List"..as I did a few weeks ago. What an amazing >resource! The science is right there for me to read and see..and >free! Wonderful dissertations by respected and credentialed >professionals..the very names in the books. ( Incidentally, Martin's >letters are in a class of their own.) Why, for a while there I thought > I was back at Indiana U. in a graduate program...Well, at least > until I started reading the contentious posts about the Arizona and > the Pennslyvania falls and the ongoing "dust up" over the pros and > cons of "hyping" the marketing of space rocks, the personal digs, > ill concealed expressions of envy, borderline slanders and finger > pointing... then I knew I was back in school...kindergarten. > >Count Deiro >-----Original Message----- > >From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks > >Sent: Jul 15, 2009 12:47 PM > >To: Michael Farmer > >Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, MeteorHntr at aol.com > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD, New Meteorite Men > Collectible on Ebay Closing on Thursday Night > > > >Hi Steve, Mike and List, > > > >>From the peanut gallery - > > > >Ok guys, enough is enough. This back and forth is making us all look > >bad and making meteorites look bad by proxy. Newbies are going to > >come here and think that space rocks infect people with Andromeda > >Strain madness. > > > >Look, when I act up and say stupid things on the List, most people > >ignore it. Who am I anyway? > > > >But you guys are the big names in the field - you guys are > >representatives of the hobby. You are in magazines and on TV. I knew > >who Steve Arnold and Mike Farmer were before I knew there were > >different types of carbonaceous chondrites. So when you guys come on > >the List and start going back and forth with general nastiness, it > >carries more weight and grabs more attention than it would if I was > >saying it. (or some other Johnny Come Lately) People are going to > >think - so this how meteorite people behave, I think I'll go collect > >pez dispensers now. > > > >Professional meteorite hunters (the successful ones, like you guys) > >live a life the rest of us armchair chasers dream of - you get to > >"work" by chasing space rocks and finding them. It beats the hell out > >of getting up at 4:30am and running a forklift at a distribution > >center or digging ditches for a living. (although, one could argue > >that finding meteorites does involve some ditch digging) - you guys > >are part of a very small brotherhood that gets to make a living from a > >PASSION. How cool is that? To wake up in the morning and ENJOY the > >idea of going to work. > > > >Steve is riding high on his Meteorite Men success right now - let him > >have it. Damn, if the tables were turned, I'd like to think that any > >of us wouldn't get our hides skinned because we revelled in our > >success of finding meteorites. And I understand what Mike is saying > >about too much hype - it what the radio does to new music - they run > >it into the ground until you are sick of hearing it. But there is no > >reason to carry out a public slapfight over this. Take it to private > >email. Mike, I'm sure you have Steve's phone number - call him up and > >bitch him out over the phone so we don't have to hear it. All you are > >doing is alienating customers/newbies - which I'm sure you don't care > >about because they are "nickel and dime" customers anyway. Actually, > >if I was profit-minded, I'd be loving this - because for every newbie > >you guys turn off, they come running to people like me - and I am more > >than happy to sell them all of the nickel and dime meteorites they > >want. > > > >I promised myself and the List, I'd keep my mouth shut and think > >before hitting "send" - which I have done for a week now while this > >continues on and on. So here you have it. > > > >Best regards and let's knock it off, > > > >MikeG > > > > > >On 7/15/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > >> > >> Let me get this strait, so you put it in a box, and make a label saying it > >> is from you, and all you do is put a number on it, say #4 of 45. > >> Damn, can't believe I didn't think of that first. I have thousands of > >> Allende fragments, (I used to buy kilos of them from the Mexicans direct > >> until they ran out) I could really ramp up the gimmicks to try > and squeeze > >> another buck or two out of the buyer using their own stupidity > against them. > >> I am sure though, when they go to sell their box later that anyone with > >> brains will say, hmmmm .35 gram fragment of Allende retails for > about $3.00, > >> so I offer you $1.00 and not "wow", this is a limited edition > plastic box so > >> let's call it $30.00. > >> > >> I don't know why you cant just sell what you own for what it is, > and not try > >> to "Billy Mays" it all daytime TV style. > >> It is good for a laugh though. > >> > >> Michael Farmer > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > > > >-- > >......................................................... > >Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > >Member of the Meteoritical Society. > >Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > >Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > >.......................................................... > >______________________________________________ > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >Meteorite-list mailing list > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list John Gwilliam Too many people were born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple. From drtanuki at yahoo.com Thu Jul 16 00:53:46 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Canadian Meteorite FAll 1909? Message-ID: <633482.35291.qm@web53109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> List, Just posted: http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2009/07/canada-meteorite-news-1909-meteorite.html Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo From mikewren at gilanet.com Thu Jul 16 01:01:50 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:01:50 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson -One of Americas Great Meteorite Hunters Message-ID: Hello, Some of you know him, some of you have heard of him and many of the newer members of this list should know about him. Ivan Skip Wilson is one of the most successful meteorite hunters in the world. He has personally found over 130 meteorites from Roosevelt County, New Mexico, only a few of these were paired. He has been hunting in that part of New Mexico since the 1960's and Glenn Huss, (Nininger's son-in-law) called him the Great American Meteorite Hunter. When I first started to hunt meteorites, I made a journey to see him. He is a kind man and he shared his wealth of information with me and even gave me several locations to hunt. He showed me exactly where the Macy meteorite had been found and told me there were more pieces out there. I learned a lot from him and he sold me many great specimens at great prices, which helped to establish me in the business of meteorite buying and selling. A remarkable human being who is always sharing stories, generous with his meteorite knowledge and gifted at finding lots of meteorites. There are probably only a few of the Oman and North Africa meteorite hunters who have actually found more. However, it is the spirit of a fine human being willing to share their gift that stands out the most about Skip Wilson. I would suggest to any of the new and up and coming Hunter/Collector/ Dealer folks out there to pay your respects to one of our elder's in the world of meteorites and one of the finest of meteorite hunters. In fact there is no one on this list who has found more meteorites in America than Skip Wilson. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From eric at meteoritesusa.com Thu Jul 16 01:10:10 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:10:10 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Email Down All Day! Message-ID: <4A5EB632.6040605@meteoritesusa.com> Hi everyone... If any of you have sent me email today, I apologize for not responding! My email has been down all day today, I only just noticed a few hours ago and have been trying to resolve the issue since. It is now working! Anyone who sent me email today starting from around 4:50am PDT (7:50 EDT) until right now, please RESEND your email to me and I promise I will answer... Sorry for the delay... Thanks! ;) -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From countdeiro at earthlink.net Thu Jul 16 01:24:37 2009 From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:24:37 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? Message-ID: <19137837.1247721877244.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Greg and all, In the short few months that have marked my introduction to this obsession with extraterrestial rocks...every one of the dozen or so dealer/collectors I have met and dealt with in the Meteorite community has been...as we say in the gambling business..."jam up!" The passion that all of you have for collecting, classifying, trading, buying, selling and researching meteorites is infectious. Who wouldn't be captured with the idea of holding in your hand your very beginnings? Heavy stuff...but, as I found out after my "kindergarten" remark...one must have a sense of humour when hanging with you lot. Good Hunting, Count Deiro -----Original Message----- >From: GREG LINDH >Sent: Jul 15, 2009 9:02 PM >To: markig at westnet.com >Cc: meteorite-list >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > > > Hi Mark, > > I don't know whether Bob Haag is the best hunter/collector, but I can tell you that he is the nicest guy you could want to know, and that is a rare thing in the meteorite community. I met him at the Tucson show a couple of years ago and he knew that I was a newbie and that I couldn't even begin to afford the stuff he was selling, but he took *a lot* of his time and just talked and encouraged me. I'll tell you what, that is a *rare* thing to see in this community. > > Greg > > > > > >---------------------------------------- >> From: markig at westnet.com >> To: mikewren at gilanet.com >> Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:13:38 -0400 >> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >> >> Trust me, you don't want to know! >> >> I am an industrial hygienist, and the profession has changed so much over >> the years. It used to be about protecting worker health and safety - now so >> much of the profession is devoted to mold investigation, asbestos >> remediation and lead remediation. >> >> It frequently comes down to chasing the almighty dollar. >> >> Perhaps things will change with the new administration in Washington, but I >> really don't know. >> >> In any event, sorry to go off topic for a moment. >> >> Back to business - I am fairly new to the meteorite field, but the name Bob >> Haag comes to my mind. Whether this is a reasonable choice, I don't know. >> But this will give you an indication of who new people coming to the hobby >> think - right or wrong. I will leave it for others on the list to discuss >> the merits. >> >> But when I think of physics, I think Einstein. When I think of Chemistry, I >> think Lavoisier. Granted, these are deceased. >> >> But I feel really strongly about the concept. The great people, whoever >> they are and in whatever field, just become known by their accomplishments, >> regardless of any promotion and hype. If it's just promotion and hype, they >> are soon forgotten, so history becomes the ultimate judge. >> >> In any event, thanks for the question! Kind of interesting! >> >> Mark >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "michael cottingham" >> To: "Mark Grossman" >> Cc: >> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST >> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >> >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I can agree with what you say... I am now actually very curious about who >>> the best mold investigator is though?!! >>> >>> Best Wishes >>> >>> Michael >>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:54 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>> >>>> You have the advantage on me here. >>>> >>>> But regardless, the concept holds true for whatever field. If you have >>>> to ask who is the best, and there is confustion in the particular >>>> community, THE best is yet to be determined. >>>> >>>> Holds true for meteorite hunters as well as any other professionals (in >>>> my opinion, that is!) >>>> >>>> Believe me, if there is a mold investigator who is the best without >>>> question, there is - or eventually will be - a meteorite hunter who >>>> everyone acknowledges is THE best. >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>> >>>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>>> Cc: >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:48 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST >>>> ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>> >>>> >>>>> But Actually, Nininger did NOT personally find that many meteorites. >>>>> That is the confusion. He is Great, I understand that, but as far as >>>>> personal recoveries, where the hunter actually found the meteorite, >>>>> Nininger found very, very few... >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:46 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> No - still true - look how many times Nininger was mentioned within >>>>>> the first few minutes of your post. >>>>>> >>>>>> If there is confusion, then THE best is yet to be determined! >>>>>> >>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> To: "Mark Grossman" >>>>>> Cc: >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:35 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Actually, I don't believe that is true... evidence is abundantly >>>>>>> clear that in the field of meteorites there is confusion on the >>>>>>> subject. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best Wishes >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>> On Jul 15, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Mark Grossman wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Simple question. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You don't have to determine who it is. Everyone in the particular >>>>>>>> community just knows. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> And it's not a question of TV shows, or magazine articles. Just >>>>>>>> reputation built on accomplishment. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Doesn't matter what field it is - physics, chemistry, mold >>>>>>>> investigation, etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Everyone just knows. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Mark Grossman >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael cottingham" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To: >>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:14 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE >>>>>>>> BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is >>>>>>>>> the best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I am curious? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Midwest at Meteorman.org Thu Jul 16 01:25:31 2009 From: Midwest at Meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:25:31 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Drawing wanted of a Oriented Meteorite References: <633482.35291.qm@web53109.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53487D8C517C473792B1CAC0DAAF41F6@den> Hello List, I'm looking for a drawing of an oriented meteorite that I seen on the list some time ago. I can't remember who had it. If someone can locate it and send it to me I would sure appreciate It Thanks, Tim Heitz From jgrossman at usgs.gov Thu Jul 16 07:06:28 2009 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:06:28 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20090716065853.0546ec78@usgs.gov> My answer is the team Bill Cassidy/Ralph Harvey, without any doubt. They have and continue to go to extraordinary lengths to organize, fund, and plan complex meteorite searches in a hostile environment, at great personal risk, have succeeded in finding many thousands of meteorites, and then 100% of the samples become freely available for study to scientists all over the world. I could also name the Japanese Antarctic team leaders, but for now I'll stick with the Americans. Jeff At 09:14 PM 7/15/2009, michael cottingham wrote: >Hello, > >This is a simple question or is it? How do you determine who is the >best and most successful meteorite hunter in the world? > >I am curious? > >Michael > > > > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Thu Jul 16 02:18:44 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:18:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: 50+ one cent meteorites ending tonight (Thur) Message-ID: <349394.35140.qm@web110604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I have more than 50 one-cent ebay meteorites ending Thursday evening. Many very nice items this week, including a fantaztic large oriented Gao stone, and some other ncie larger pieces. See all available items at the link below, there are way too many to list here. http://www.meteorite.com/farmer/ I am posting now as I plan to be in the field all day tomorrow. Thanks Michael Farmer From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Thu Jul 16 02:27:43 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:27:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Greatest meteorite hunter in the world Message-ID: <991997.48074.qm@web110611.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Interesting question Not Nininger, he was hardly a hunter in the big scheme of things, while unrivaled at networking, he to my knowledge only found one new meteorite himself called "Cottonwood". He did find thousands of Canyon Diablo meteorites, but that was not hard at that time. He used newspapers and speeches to recover meteorites from farmers and he did travel far and wide to collect any meteorite that was found. He is the father of American and really all modern day meteorites but not a really big hunter. I would say that the Russian groups are the best as far as tonnage goes. I don't consider Antarctic searchers in the same way since the hunters are all part of a large organized group and they do not fund themselves. It is easy to hunt if governments are spending millions of $$$ to back you up. You apply, and are told where to go and flown there. Those of us who hunt on our own take our lumps and failures in our bank accounts, we pay our own bills and when successful we rightly reap the rewards. I know many people, myself among them, who have been to nearly every continent, some of the scariest and most dangerous countries on earth in search of meteorites, recovering hundreds of new and old falls, finds and desert rocks. We are all great hunters, there is not likely one who would stand over the others. Michael Farmer From eric at meteoritesusa.com Thu Jul 16 02:59:35 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:59:35 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Commercials during the broadcasts? In-Reply-To: <475076.34277.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <475076.34277.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A5ECFD7.9020309@meteoritesusa.com> Great idea... Though I don't know I could afford and add during prime time, or any ad for that matter. Others might... I say go for it, i wonder how much a 30 second spot would cost? Eric Wichman Meteorites USA Richard Kowalski wrote: > Love or hate Steve & Geoff, but it seems to me that some well placed commercials aired by other dealers while the MM shows are run seems to make sense to me. The commercials can be run only in your local market to keep the cost down and you have a built in audience. People interested in meteorites, even in passing, are watching the show. Isn't that the type of person you'd want to advertise to? > > Just my $0.02 and probably not worth much more. > > > -- > Richard Kowalski > http://fullmoonphotography.net > IMCA #1081 > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From eric at meteoritesusa.com Thu Jul 16 03:38:53 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:38:53 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Unprofessionalism Message-ID: <4A5ED90D.1000303@meteoritesusa.com> Unprofessional Apalling Uncalled For Petty Silly Unprofessional Unbecoming Stifling Ridiculous Amatuerish Unprofessional Childish Immature Irrational Abrasive Harsh Unprofessional Stupid Unwise Unfair Absurd Foolish Wrong Any idea what I'm referring to? Though I respect every member on this list, including some of whom I disagree with. I just lost a lot of respect for some people. I've kept pretty quiet over this past week watching what was happening and wasn't going to say anything. But this is ridiculous! New list members are showing up everyday... News coverage of this field is growing everyday... People read this very "PUBLIC" list everyday! How would you like it if they judged you by what was posted on-list? They do! People will judge you by your actions! You only get one chance to make a first impression! Make it count! These statements are cliche for a reason... They're true! How would you like new meteorite collectors and hunters first experience with the people of the meteorite world to be this past weeks posts? Don't be foolish! Some of us are representatives of the meteorite community to the public. This is how we are viewed by newcomers. Some do not represent the community as a whole and are not as public therefore they can get away with saying certain things. Certain people do not have that luxury. It's not about who's right or wrong. It's about the publics perception of our professionalism and the meteorite community as a whole. This is not a private little world we live in anymore. The meteorite world is much more public now. As well it should be. We need to act accordingly. -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jul 16 07:33:02 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:33:02 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Unprofessionalism In-Reply-To: <4A5ED90D.1000303@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A5ED90D.1000303@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <000a01ca0609$2e721060$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hi Eric, meteorite dealer and meteorite collector often enter a close and personal relationship, because they suffer from the same enthusiasm. To much professionalism would be to sterile, I guess. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Meteorites USA Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009 09:39 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Unprofessionalism Unprofessional Apalling Uncalled For Petty Silly Unprofessional Unbecoming Stifling Ridiculous Amatuerish Unprofessional Childish Immature Irrational Abrasive Harsh Unprofessional Stupid Unwise Unfair Absurd Foolish Wrong Any idea what I'm referring to? Though I respect every member on this list, including some of whom I disagree with. I just lost a lot of respect for some people. I've kept pretty quiet over this past week watching what was happening and wasn't going to say anything. But this is ridiculous! New list members are showing up everyday... News coverage of this field is growing everyday... People read this very "PUBLIC" list everyday! How would you like it if they judged you by what was posted on-list? They do! People will judge you by your actions! You only get one chance to make a first impression! Make it count! These statements are cliche for a reason... They're true! How would you like new meteorite collectors and hunters first experience with the people of the meteorite world to be this past weeks posts? Don't be foolish! Some of us are representatives of the meteorite community to the public. This is how we are viewed by newcomers. Some do not represent the community as a whole and are not as public therefore they can get away with saying certain things. Certain people do not have that luxury. It's not about who's right or wrong. It's about the publics perception of our professionalism and the meteorite community as a whole. This is not a private little world we live in anymore. The meteorite world is much more public now. As well it should be. We need to act accordingly. -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From majbaermann at web.de Thu Jul 16 08:30:03 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:30:03 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Unprofessionalism References: <4A5ED90D.1000303@meteoritesusa.com> <000a01ca0609$2e721060$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <3242F66B7EFB49EA83488700A29C7AA2@thinkcentre> Hehe, sounds a bit schizo, Martin. The both are at the most identic, aren't they? If I take into consideration a certain Mettmann (engl. Madman - ahem, sorry for the translation :) ... Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Unprofessionalism Hi Eric, meteorite dealer and meteorite collector often enter a close and personal relationship, because they suffer from the same enthusiasm. To much professionalism would be to sterile, I guess. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Meteorites USA Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009 09:39 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Unprofessionalism Unprofessional Apalling Uncalled For Petty Silly Unprofessional Unbecoming Stifling Ridiculous Amatuerish Unprofessional Childish Immature Irrational Abrasive Harsh Unprofessional Stupid Unwise Unfair Absurd Foolish Wrong Any idea what I'm referring to? Though I respect every member on this list, including some of whom I disagree with. I just lost a lot of respect for some people. I've kept pretty quiet over this past week watching what was happening and wasn't going to say anything. But this is ridiculous! New list members are showing up everyday... News coverage of this field is growing everyday... People read this very "PUBLIC" list everyday! How would you like it if they judged you by what was posted on-list? They do! People will judge you by your actions! You only get one chance to make a first impression! Make it count! These statements are cliche for a reason... They're true! How would you like new meteorite collectors and hunters first experience with the people of the meteorite world to be this past weeks posts? Don't be foolish! Some of us are representatives of the meteorite community to the public. This is how we are viewed by newcomers. Some do not represent the community as a whole and are not as public therefore they can get away with saying certain things. Certain people do not have that luxury. It's not about who's right or wrong. It's about the publics perception of our professionalism and the meteorite community as a whole. This is not a private little world we live in anymore. The meteorite world is much more public now. As well it should be. We need to act accordingly. -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jul 16 08:33:38 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:33:38 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson -One of Americas GreatMeteorite Hunters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000f01ca0611$a58ca8b0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Finally someone else enunciated it! "pay your respects" Many thanks, for that Michael! When I was a beginner long ago, I never would have dared to scream: burn him on the stake in public, if a person, who found so many meteorites wouldn't have answered right in the same evening, when I asked, what had happened with my 2$ meteorite. At these times one hadn't to be afraid of being ridiculed by one's fellow-collectors as ass-kisser (such expressions I read on the list), if one appreciated the achievements of a meteorite person in public. It was unthinkable that the sources of the most exiting meteorite finds would have been called amateurs, looters, extortioners, criminals or even cameleers. That was the climatic change of the recent times I found fault with a while ago and which I personally observed more with the recent collectors generation and also with some younger scientists. If I remember how the latter were elated on the shows about the new desert finds a few years ago only, how they purchased them and wrote their papers about, then it's especially difficult to understand for me, how they think they have to treat now the very same persons. Other thing is also always a little bit pity. That most get their respect paid not before they have more than 80 years or have passed away. Wasn't here suggested a Hall of Fame? Maybe it could also include the living? On the other hand I guess that wouldn't be possible. A few of the fanatics would regard a collection of hunters' portraits as a circle of hell, while even worse others from the prohibition fraction would see that thing as a welcome presentation of the warrants of apprehension of the most wanted ones, cause their unpayable and unquestionable merits and work for meteorite sciences and community, was partially driven by those into illegality in the very recent years. I would wish, that we could once return to the more civilized company and conduct of the not so far past. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von michael cottingham Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009 07:02 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson -One of Americas GreatMeteorite Hunters Hello, Some of you know him, some of you have heard of him and many of the newer members of this list should know about him. Ivan Skip Wilson is one of the most successful meteorite hunters in the world. He has personally found over 130 meteorites from Roosevelt County, New Mexico, only a few of these were paired. He has been hunting in that part of New Mexico since the 1960's and Glenn Huss, (Nininger's son-in-law) called him the Great American Meteorite Hunter. When I first started to hunt meteorites, I made a journey to see him. He is a kind man and he shared his wealth of information with me and even gave me several locations to hunt. He showed me exactly where the Macy meteorite had been found and told me there were more pieces out there. I learned a lot from him and he sold me many great specimens at great prices, which helped to establish me in the business of meteorite buying and selling. A remarkable human being who is always sharing stories, generous with his meteorite knowledge and gifted at finding lots of meteorites. There are probably only a few of the Oman and North Africa meteorite hunters who have actually found more. However, it is the spirit of a fine human being willing to share their gift that stands out the most about Skip Wilson. I would suggest to any of the new and up and coming Hunter/Collector/ Dealer folks out there to pay your respects to one of our elder's in the world of meteorites and one of the finest of meteorite hunters. In fact there is no one on this list who has found more meteorites in America than Skip Wilson. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 16 08:53:22 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 05:53:22 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? Message-ID: Hi Martin, Thank you. It's funny you mentioned the Russians. I had contacted Mike Farmer a few days ago concerning a personal matter and he also mentioned the Russians. Not negatively, of course. I see Mike's last post concerned more info on them. Carl Martin wrote: >Well Carl, It's because the Russians are so modest and don't attach much importance in public profiling. Uh all the lunars they found, the Martians, hundreds of finds in Oman, some of them where also in Libya before - and think to all the additional stuff Tsarev, Polujamki, Markovka, Brahin, Kainsaz, Vengerovo, Sikhote, Chinga, Dronino, Pallasovka, Seymchan + many more, even Muonionalusta, Morasko... _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jul 16 09:02:59 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:02:59 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Unprofessionalism In-Reply-To: <3242F66B7EFB49EA83488700A29C7AA2@thinkcentre> References: <4A5ED90D.1000303@meteoritesusa.com> <000a01ca0609$2e721060$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <3242F66B7EFB49EA83488700A29C7AA2@thinkcentre> Message-ID: <001101ca0615$bf705390$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Schizophrenic, Matthias, is rather that we are all reliant on each other, dealers, hunters, scientists, collectors - all in the same boat and that we spend our time and energy in coshing the paddles on our heads and to chop holes in the shrouds. And we forget always with our blinders, that if the ship sinks, nobody else than only we will care about. Endless reprises, I know. But they closed Australia, they closed Oman, they closed Libya, they closed Argentina, they closed Poland, they closed Algeria, now they want to close Morocco. If that happens, dear crew, than we can say as far as meteorites are concerned: That was it, folks. (That outcry I'd like to hear on the list, if they once would decide to close the US-deserts for meteorite hunting....) Schizophrenic is also, that we all have to beware even the protectionists themselves of the outcome of the laws, they ask for. Weird world :-) Martin For the Commonwealth, if they aren't able to understand the data and statistics...what only shall I say still further....helpless me....perhaps... Habibi Dabibi sat on a wall, Habibi Dabibi had a great fall. All the Queen's horses and all the Queen's men Couldn't recover a space rock again. Eeeek! I have to hide now..... -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: majbaermann at web.de [mailto:majbaermann at web.de] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009 14:30 An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Unprofessionalism Hehe, sounds a bit schizo, Martin. The both are at the most identic, aren't they? If I take into consideration a certain Mettmann (engl. Madman - ahem, sorry for the translation :) ... Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Unprofessionalism Hi Eric, meteorite dealer and meteorite collector often enter a close and personal relationship, because they suffer from the same enthusiasm. To much professionalism would be to sterile, I guess. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Meteorites USA Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009 09:39 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Unprofessionalism Unprofessional Apalling Uncalled For Petty Silly Unprofessional Unbecoming Stifling Ridiculous Amatuerish Unprofessional Childish Immature Irrational Abrasive Harsh Unprofessional Stupid Unwise Unfair Absurd Foolish Wrong Any idea what I'm referring to? Though I respect every member on this list, including some of whom I disagree with. I just lost a lot of respect for some people. I've kept pretty quiet over this past week watching what was happening and wasn't going to say anything. But this is ridiculous! New list members are showing up everyday... News coverage of this field is growing everyday... People read this very "PUBLIC" list everyday! How would you like it if they judged you by what was posted on-list? They do! People will judge you by your actions! You only get one chance to make a first impression! Make it count! These statements are cliche for a reason... They're true! How would you like new meteorite collectors and hunters first experience with the people of the meteorite world to be this past weeks posts? Don't be foolish! Some of us are representatives of the meteorite community to the public. This is how we are viewed by newcomers. Some do not represent the community as a whole and are not as public therefore they can get away with saying certain things. Certain people do not have that luxury. It's not about who's right or wrong. It's about the publics perception of our professionalism and the meteorite community as a whole. This is not a private little world we live in anymore. The meteorite world is much more public now. As well it should be. We need to act accordingly. -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 16 09:11:59 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 06:11:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hello Count Deiro Message-ID: Hi Greg, Yes, I know they weren't kidding around. A little damage control from one newbie to another is all. I don't think he fell for it anyway. Actually, I think this is a pretty good community. There are a LOT of great people here. Let's see what tomorrow brings. Carl >No, actually Mike and Steve (and others) aren't "just kidding around"... _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 From korotev at wustl.edu Thu Jul 16 09:04:20 2009 From: korotev at wustl.edu (Randy Korotev) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 08:04:20 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <85C64CF1-7FD0-413A-8D63-DFFDB187ED4B@gilanet.com> References: <85C64CF1-7FD0-413A-8D63-DFFDB187ED4B@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <200907161304.n6GD4CO28217@levee.wustl.edu> If we're counting rocks, then the answer is John Schutt of ANSMET (followed closely by Cassidy and Harvey, as Jeff mentioned): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Schutt http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/25/sports/othersports/25outdoors.html He's been doing this since 1980 and probably has personally found 10-20% of the ANSMET collection. The Wikipedia stub doesn't begin to do this guy justice. Every year he has to make sure some newbie-lab-scientist-volunteer doesn't do something stupid. In 1988, I almost lost my snowmobile over a cliff. I parked it, not knowing that it didn't have a brake. It succumbed to gravity and headed downhill. John ran after it, tackled it, and prevented it from going over the edge. The guy can spot and classify meteorites from 100 meters. Randy Korotev From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jul 16 09:47:33 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:47:33 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <200907161304.n6GD4CO28217@levee.wustl.edu> References: <85C64CF1-7FD0-413A-8D63-DFFDB187ED4B@gilanet.com> <200907161304.n6GD4CO28217@levee.wustl.edu> Message-ID: <001301ca061b$f922ede0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Well... but aren't that two different sports, difficult to compare, to hunt on the ice and in a hot rocky desert? http://www.dtm.ciw.edu/users/lrn/pictures/ant/sun_snow_ice.jpg http://kuerzer.de/Hopper3000 http://www.dtm.ciw.edu/users/lrn/pictures/ant/flags3.jpg vs. http://kuerzer.de/Whereishopper http://www.saharamet.com/desert/meteorite/tracks.jpg http://www.mdpub.com/newphotos/Oct06/desert2.jpg (...I read a paper, which said, that the average pairing rate among the Antarcic field numbers is 5. So that the 35,000 Antarctic numbers represent 7,000 different meteorites. Only wanted to mention that, cause some forget that, if they compare hot with cold desert finds.) -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Randy Korotev Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009 15:04 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? If we're counting rocks, then the answer is John Schutt of ANSMET (followed closely by Cassidy and Harvey, as Jeff mentioned): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Schutt http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/25/sports/othersports/25outdoors.html He's been doing this since 1980 and probably has personally found 10-20% of the ANSMET collection. The Wikipedia stub doesn't begin to do this guy justice. Every year he has to make sure some newbie-lab-scientist-volunteer doesn't do something stupid. In 1988, I almost lost my snowmobile over a cliff. I parked it, not knowing that it didn't have a brake. It succumbed to gravity and headed downhill. John ran after it, tackled it, and prevented it from going over the edge. The guy can spot and classify meteorites from 100 meters. Randy Korotev ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From scyphocrinites at yahoo.com Thu Jul 16 10:06:36 2009 From: scyphocrinites at yahoo.com (Malek Youssef) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:06:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad : Ordinary Chondrites Message-ID: <36912.12991.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi All I have available for sale a 4400 Gr Lot OC's , and a 3200 gr Sliced Chondrite , those interested , feel free to contact me to provide Photos. Best Regards M.Youssef From info at mcomemeteorite.it Thu Jul 16 10:43:48 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:43:48 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions Message-ID: <4a5f3ca4.13d.57a5.1372383036@webmaildh6.aruba.it> for who is interested some ebay auctions ended at few hours http://members.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=mcomemeteorite Matteo M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.org Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jul 16 12:28:10 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:28:10 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Okay, how do I go about angering the aliens... In-Reply-To: <4A5ED90D.1000303@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A5ED90D.1000303@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: http://www.portalino.it/nuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=38150 The Belgrade home of Radivoje Lajic has been hit by meteorites five times since last November. He has concluded that he's being harassed by extraterrestrials. He said: "I am obviously being targeted by extraterrestrials. I don't know what I have done to annoy them but there is no other explanation that makes sense. The chance of being hit by a meteorite is so small that getting hit five times has to be deliberate." The first meteorite fell on his house in November last year and since then a further four have smashed into his home. The strikes always happen when it is raining heavily, never when there are clear skies. He said: "I did not know what the strange-looking stones were at first but I have since had them all confirmed as meteorites by experts at Belgrade University. From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Thu Jul 16 11:57:45 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 08:57:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Arizona fall better photos, check this out! Message-ID: <45105.44898.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.meteoriteguy.com/collection/azfall.htm www.meteoritehunter.com I put a page together quickly to show the stone I found yesterday. This is truly the best oriented meteorite I have ever found. I owe it all to Dr. Jack Schrader, who's detective work allowed this new meteorite fall to be recovered and who generously invited me to work with him in mapping this new strewnfield. thanks Jack! This stone exhibits on the low pressure side, the exact same silver spots observed on a few of the Ash Creek (West) stones. This is even after several hard rains since the fall, however since the stone was found backside down, that area was protected somewhat from the rain. Off to the field, now, but enjoy the newest meteorite recovered. Michael Farmer From fujmon at mac.com Thu Jul 16 12:04:05 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 06:04:05 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Arizona fall better photos, check this out! In-Reply-To: <45105.44898.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <45105.44898.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow! That is a beauty Mike, thanks for sharing those pictures. Congratulations on your find, and the best of luck to you and all those in the strewnfield searching. gary On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:57 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: > > http://www.meteoriteguy.com/collection/azfall.htm > > > www.meteoritehunter.com > > > I put a page together quickly to show the stone I found yesterday. > This is truly the best oriented meteorite I have ever found. > > I owe it all to Dr. Jack Schrader, who's detective work allowed this > new meteorite fall to be recovered and who generously invited me to > work with him in mapping this new strewnfield. > thanks Jack! > > > This stone exhibits on the low pressure side, the exact same silver > spots observed on a few of the Ash Creek (West) stones. This is even > after several hard rains since the fall, however since the stone was > found backside down, that area was protected somewhat from the rain. > > Off to the field, now, but enjoy the newest meteorite recovered. > Michael Farmer > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From cdtucson at cox.net Thu Jul 16 12:10:15 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 9:10:15 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <200907161304.n6GD4CO28217@levee.wustl.edu> Message-ID: <20090716121015.E08PE.352000.imail@fed1rmwml31> Randy, Isn't this ANSMET technique more like fishing? Or even "fishing in a barrel"? Isn't NWA similar? It seems to me we need different categories of hunting here. If you can see your prey while sitting in your car or on a snowmobile how is that hunting? As in many true sports the difficulty factor aids in the final score. Look no farther than the Olympics and the way they judge the scoring. Another category would have to be trophy hunting. In this your man would rank high based on his Mars finds alone. But in terms of Lunar web sites Randy your are by far the best. My 2 cents. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Randy Korotev wrote: > If we're counting rocks, then the answer is John Schutt of ANSMET > (followed closely by Cassidy and Harvey, as Jeff mentioned): > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Schutt > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/25/sports/othersports/25outdoors.html > > He's been doing this since 1980 and probably has personally found > 10-20% of the ANSMET collection. The Wikipedia stub doesn't begin to > do this guy justice. Every year he has to make sure some > newbie-lab-scientist-volunteer doesn't do something stupid. In 1988, > I almost lost my snowmobile over a cliff. I parked it, not knowing > that it didn't have a brake. It succumbed to gravity and headed > downhill. John ran after it, tackled it, and prevented it from going > over the edge. > > The guy can spot and classify meteorites from 100 meters. > > Randy Korotev > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Thu Jul 16 12:22:31 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 09:22:31 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Arizona fall better photos, check this out! In-Reply-To: References: <45105.44898.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5BB32DFB-20B1-4C86-8970-C5F69FC84246@comcast.net> Thanks to all who emailed me, can't answer so many and have time to hunt but hope to pull a few more of these from the desert. Mike Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 16, 2009, at 9:04 AM, Gary Fujihara wrote: > Wow! That is a beauty Mike, thanks for sharing those pictures. > Congratulations on your find, and the best of luck to you and all > those in the strewnfield searching. > > gary > > On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:57 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: > >> >> http://www.meteoriteguy.com/collection/azfall.htm >> >> >> www.meteoritehunter.com >> >> >> I put a page together quickly to show the stone I found yesterday. >> This is truly the best oriented meteorite I have ever found. >> >> I owe it all to Dr. Jack Schrader, who's detective work allowed >> this new meteorite fall to be recovered and who generously invited >> me to work with him in mapping this new strewnfield. >> thanks Jack! >> >> >> This stone exhibits on the low pressure side, the exact same silver >> spots observed on a few of the Ash Creek (West) stones. This is >> even after several hard rains since the fall, however since the >> stone was found backside down, that area was protected somewhat >> from the rain. >> >> Off to the field, now, but enjoy the newest meteorite recovered. >> Michael Farmer >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > Gary Fujihara > AstroDay Institute > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > http://astroday.net > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Thu Jul 16 12:41:51 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:41:51 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Arizona fall better photos, check this out! In-Reply-To: <5BB32DFB-20B1-4C86-8970-C5F69FC84246@comcast.net> References: <45105.44898.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <5BB32DFB-20B1-4C86-8970-C5F69FC84246@comcast.net> Message-ID: The flow-lines remind me of Lafayette. :) On 7/16/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > Thanks to all who emailed me, can't answer so many and have time to > hunt but hope to pull a few more of these from the desert. > Mike > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Jul 16, 2009, at 9:04 AM, Gary Fujihara wrote: > >> Wow! That is a beauty Mike, thanks for sharing those pictures. >> Congratulations on your find, and the best of luck to you and all >> those in the strewnfield searching. >> >> gary >> >> On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:57 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: >> >>> >>> http://www.meteoriteguy.com/collection/azfall.htm >>> >>> >>> www.meteoritehunter.com >>> >>> >>> I put a page together quickly to show the stone I found yesterday. >>> This is truly the best oriented meteorite I have ever found. >>> >>> I owe it all to Dr. Jack Schrader, who's detective work allowed >>> this new meteorite fall to be recovered and who generously invited >>> me to work with him in mapping this new strewnfield. >>> thanks Jack! >>> >>> >>> This stone exhibits on the low pressure side, the exact same silver >>> spots observed on a few of the Ash Creek (West) stones. This is >>> even after several hard rains since the fall, however since the >>> stone was found backside down, that area was protected somewhat >>> from the rain. >>> >>> Off to the field, now, but enjoy the newest meteorite recovered. >>> Michael Farmer >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> Gary Fujihara >> AstroDay Institute >> 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 >> (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com >> http://astroday.net >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jul 16 12:46:29 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 16 Jul 2009 16:46:29 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: New Arizona fall better photos, check this out! Message-ID: MetM.: "The flow-lines remind me of Lafayette." .. and the spikes remind me of the Puerto L?pice eucrite!!! Congrats on such an out-of-this-world meteorite! Bernd From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Thu Jul 16 12:51:19 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:51:19 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? Message-ID: <411708604A584BCABDAC25A6F9D95FD5@ET> Isn't this a no brainer? It's Michael Farmer! If you're talking high profile, non Russian, Japanese, Moroccan, Antarctic, European,etc., Mike is currently the man to beat at every new fall, with a very few exceptions. For better or for worse, Mike is the face of modern American meteorite hunting. I would think this is common knowledge among the uninitiated, non cognescenti, teeming masses. Steve Arnold is a contender, I think he beat the pants off Mike at West, but didn't he have a 5 year long drought? Since the torch has been passed from Bob Haag, I would have to go with the populous viewpoint that Mike is currently The Man. And it's important to keep in mind that he's only at mid career with a long way to go, unlike Bob who's semi-retired. Of course I am probably completely wrong, but am only trying to answer the question from the viewpoint of non meteorite people. Couldn't this question be answered objectively simply by ranking the number of meteorites each of the contenders has had classified? It would be interesting to see this column of figures. Phil Whitmer From meteoritemike at gmail.com Thu Jul 16 13:28:32 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:28:32 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <411708604A584BCABDAC25A6F9D95FD5@ET> References: <411708604A584BCABDAC25A6F9D95FD5@ET> Message-ID: Who is the BEST meteorite hunter? Last night I jokingly said Hopper the Dog, but after some thinking on the subject, and considering some of the other replies on the List, I realize I was being shortsighted. I think everyone can agree on some general criteria of what makes a great hunter - 1) results - number of finds and the significance of those finds. Obviously, whoever finds the first lunaite on US soil is going to be remembered more than a prolific hunter with a hundred OC finds. 2) contributions to science - has the hunter put science before personal gain? And not just once or twice for show - but a continuing dedication to the science of meteoritics that results in a better understanding of meteoritics and planetary science. 3) accessibility - is the hunter available for questions, mentoring, and outreach? Do they go out on their own time and educate people (especially kids) about meteorites? 4) humility - nobody likes an arrogant person or braggart - regardless of how successful they are. 5) longevity - how many decades has this person been hunting meteorites? If the answer is less than two, then it's difficult to argue that they are "great" - they may well be on their way to greatness, but IMO a minimum of 20 years in the field is required for "greatness". (combined with the above criteria) Beyond those criteria, other factors will surely apply. But I think it is shortsighted to simply make a dry tally sheet of finds and keep score like this is a game of darts the pub. Best regards, MikeG On 7/16/09, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: > Isn't this a no brainer? It's Michael Farmer! If you're talking high > profile, non Russian, Japanese, Moroccan, Antarctic, European,etc., Mike is > currently the man to beat at every new fall, with a very few exceptions. > For better or for worse, Mike is the face of modern American meteorite > hunting. I would think this is common knowledge among the uninitiated, non > cognescenti, teeming masses. Steve Arnold is a contender, I think he beat > the pants off Mike at West, but didn't he have a 5 year long drought? Since > the torch has been passed from Bob Haag, I would have to go with the > populous viewpoint that Mike is currently The Man. And it's important to > keep in mind that he's only at mid career with a long way to go, unlike Bob > who's semi-retired. Of course I am probably completely wrong, but am only > trying to answer the question from the viewpoint of non meteorite people. > > Couldn't this question be answered objectively simply by ranking the number > of meteorites each of the contenders has had classified? It would be > interesting to see this column of figures. > > Phil Whitmer > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jul 16 15:10:07 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:10:07 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: <411708604A584BCABDAC25A6F9D95FD5@ET> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:28:32 -0400, you wrote: >I think everyone can agree on some general criteria of what makes a >great hunter - I would define a great meteorite hunter only by how many meteorites he finds. When you start adding all sorts of arbitrary personal caveat to the term, then you are trying to shape the definition to specific people. "Well, yes, he found more meteorites, but they were in Antarctica, and everybody knows meteorites are in Antarctica!" "Okay, so he found 1,000 meteorites-- but he didn't answer my e-mail for TWO weeks!" "Well, he tracked down 5 new falls, but he wouldn't travel 1,000 miles to talk to my Cub Scout troop unless I paid his expenses!" People are adding "yes, buts" to the definition right and left to arbitrarily exclude some meteorite hunters so that it gives more credit to the ones you personally favor. Personality has nothing to do with it. If Osama bin Laden found a dozen meteorites in Afghanistan, he'd be a better meteorite hunter than Jesus Christ (given that there is no mention in the bible of Jesus's meteorite hunting skills.) > >1) results - number of finds and the significance of those finds. >Obviously, whoever finds the first lunaite on US soil is going to be >remembered more than a prolific hunter with a hundred OC finds. > >2) contributions to science - has the hunter put science before >personal gain? And not just once or twice for show - but a continuing >dedication to the science of meteoritics that results in a better >understanding of meteoritics and planetary science. > >3) accessibility - is the hunter available for questions, mentoring, >and outreach? Do they go out on their own time and educate people >(especially kids) about meteorites? > >4) humility - nobody likes an arrogant person or braggart - regardless >of how successful they are. > >5) longevity - how many decades has this person been hunting >meteorites? If the answer is less than two, then it's difficult to >argue that they are "great" - they may well be on their way to >greatness, but IMO a minimum of 20 years in the field is required for >"greatness". (combined with the above criteria) > >Beyond those criteria, other factors will surely apply. But I think >it is shortsighted to simply make a dry tally sheet of finds and keep >score like this is a game of darts the pub. > >Best regards, > >MikeG > > >On 7/16/09, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: >> Isn't this a no brainer? It's Michael Farmer! If you're talking high >> profile, non Russian, Japanese, Moroccan, Antarctic, European,etc., Mike is >> currently the man to beat at every new fall, with a very few exceptions. >> For better or for worse, Mike is the face of modern American meteorite >> hunting. I would think this is common knowledge among the uninitiated, non >> cognescenti, teeming masses. Steve Arnold is a contender, I think he beat >> the pants off Mike at West, but didn't he have a 5 year long drought? Since >> the torch has been passed from Bob Haag, I would have to go with the >> populous viewpoint that Mike is currently The Man. And it's important to >> keep in mind that he's only at mid career with a long way to go, unlike Bob >> who's semi-retired. Of course I am probably completely wrong, but am only >> trying to answer the question from the viewpoint of non meteorite people. >> >> Couldn't this question be answered objectively simply by ranking the number >> of meteorites each of the contenders has had classified? It would be >> interesting to see this column of figures. >> >> Phil Whitmer >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Thu Jul 16 13:49:08 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 10:49:08 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: New Arizona fall better photos, check this out! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4EAE30FF-6C5F-44FA-8AB6-9825844282E2@comcast.net> Thanks so much Bernd From someone as knowledgeable as you that makes me feel great. Michael Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 16, 2009, at 9:46 AM, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > MetM.: "The flow-lines remind me of Lafayette." > > .. and the spikes remind me of the Puerto L?pice eucrite!!! > > Congrats on such an out-of-this-world meteorite! > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From fujmon at mac.com Thu Jul 16 14:16:03 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 08:16:03 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - 10% off Sale Message-ID: <31531825-EC69-4F16-97CA-0C14B8D27AF2@mac.com> Aloha, In celebration of Space Shuttle Endeavor's successful launch yesterday, and the upcoming 40th Anniversary of the Apollo lunar landing, you can take 10% off any meteorite listed , Bassikounou crusted individuals (95-100% crusted, 6g-106g) $3/g uNWA lodranite 26g crusted fragment $1000 (likely paired to NWA 5488) uNWA olivine diogenite 46g individual $700 (likely paired to NWA 5480 uNWA pallasite 19g, 29g individuals $15/g (loaded with olivine) uNWA pallasite lot 104g of 2-5g fragments $9.60/g (loaded with olivine) Also for sale are Zunhua, Seymchan slices, and more with pictures and prices at 10% off everything from now until the weekend! But hurry, supplies are limited! But wait, there's more - I'll ship for free on orders over $50! Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From mikewren at gilanet.com Thu Jul 16 14:19:41 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:19:41 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Need to Raise Some $$$ For Tuition For My Son.. Open To Fair Offers On My Items In My Store Message-ID: Hello, I need to raise a few extra bucks for my son's tuition this semester. We do not get any Federal College aid money, so we pay as we go. His major is Geology. I am willing to let a few pieces go at fair prices, so if there is anything that interests you in my ebay store-at this moment in time, I am open to good offers... http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From pshugar at clearwire.net Thu Jul 16 14:22:58 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:22:58 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Question for the list Message-ID: I think that we also need to include, along with a tally of finds and all the other atributes, the humanitarian side of the equasion---namely, who helps others to pick up the hobby by giving guidance as well as points them in the right direction. This can even include giving a starter meteorite to the "student". Who has done the best at promoting the Science of Meteorites. Pete IMCA 1733 From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Thu Jul 16 14:54:30 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:54:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? Message-ID: <27B6357101D44CA39E8A63689C788771@ET> Darren, I have to agree. It's a simple matter of statistics, whoever finds the mostest is the bestest! Really, Osama vs. Jesus, that's too funny! You get my vote for the funniest list member! Phil Whitmer From countdeiro at earthlink.net Thu Jul 16 15:05:45 2009 From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:05:45 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Question for the list Message-ID: <21754194.1247771145448.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Under Pete's criteria, Sonny Clary, would definitely have to be considered. Count Deiro -----Original Message----- >From: Pete Shugar >Sent: Jul 16, 2009 11:22 AM >To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >Subject: [meteorite-list] Re Question for the list > >I think that we also need to include, along with a tally of finds and all >the other atributes, the humanitarian side of the equasion---namely, who >helps others to pick up the hobby by giving guidance as well as points them >in the right direction. This can even include giving a starter meteorite to >the "student". >Who has done the best at promoting the Science of Meteorites. >Pete >IMCA 1733 > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gsac at gmx.net Thu Jul 16 15:02:38 2009 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:02:38 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Unprofessionalism In-Reply-To: <001101ca0615$bf705390$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <4A5ED90D.1000303@meteoritesusa.com> <000a01ca0609$2e721060$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <3242F66B7EFB49EA83488700A29C7AA2@thinkcentre> <001101ca0615$bf705390$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <20090716190238.162070@gmx.net> > meteorite dealer and meteorite collector often enter a close and > personal relationship, because they suffer from the same enthusiasm. > To much professionalism would be to sterile, I guess. Exactly, my dear meteorite friends Martin and Stefan - that?s part of the beef! "Uncle" Alex Berlin/Germany From MeteorHntr at aol.com Thu Jul 16 15:39:23 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:39:23 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT... Message-ID: In a message dated 7/16/2009 12:11:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com writes: Steve Arnold is a contender, I think he beat the pants off Mike at West, but didn't he have a 5 year long drought? ******* Phil, I am honored by your mention, but we have to be serious here. I have only hunted at 7 sites in the last 4 years, spending 90% of my time at two sites. West was a fun 28 day detour in it all. Before 2005 I was an amateur meteorite hunter only hitting one or two places a year with metal detector in hand. In 2003 I picked up 113 meteorites from Park Forest, one being 11 km from the main mass, I found the most there, but I don't think anyone else was even trying to find a lot. For the most part, over the years I invested most of my time and made most of my money from being a dealer not a hunter. If we are judging this by total weight recovered, I am beat by quite a few people on lifetime numbers. If we are judged by total number recoveries from different locations, there are many people who beat me. If we judge by profit from meteorite sales of found meteorites, there are many more higher on that list than I am. Maybe, if you judged success by most media coverage (TV, newspaper, Radio, Magazines,internet, etc.) I would be at the top of that list. But I hardly think that is a good barometer for determining the "Most Successful Meteorite Hunter." Success is our world is often judged by the amount of money you make. So who has made the most money? But what about people that are not in this for the bottom line only? Cottingham mentioned not willing to sacrifice family time to be gone from home too much. If his kids grow up emotionally well balanced because he was in their lives more, but someone else finds more meteorites but has a lousy home life, some people might argue who really was more of a "success?" It is easier to measure who did the best at one location. Let's all go to Holbrook for the weekend, and whomever finds the most in number wins the title for the day. Or drop us off at Munonionalusta for a week, and we can put the bounty on the scales 7 days later. Who found the biggest West? Or the most Wests? Or the most total weight of Wests? Who will find the most at this new Arizona Strewnfield? I think it might be possible to single out who might have had the best year financially, in total weight, in total numbers etc in a given year, but to stretch it out for more than a decade long period of time, that gets a bit tough, and very subjective. Someone might be better or worse than their numbers indicate because of other factors in their life. Others might just get a little lucky. It is all so subjective. And to top it off, I don't know if anyone out there is hell bent on finding the most new meteorites, or the most total recovered weight, or the biggest single meteorite of all time. Most of us do this because we love it. We love the challenge that each day brings, that each new fall brings, that each old strewnfield with new clues brings. I would guess there are people that want to find as many as they can. Or to find the biggest they can. And I am sure there are people that want to make as much money as possible. But as with so many things in life, it isn't so much beating everyone else, but beating mediocrity and being the best one can be. If being a husband, a father, a grandfather, a teacher, a dealer, a scientists, etc. gets in the way of being a better "hunter" then we all make those quality decisions at different times in our lives. And since this isn't like boxing, where one unquestionable champion holds the title until someone takes it away from him, and since this isn't like pro football with a Super Bowl game at the end of the playoffs, how do you measure the current Champion? Maybe it would be better to look at this more like a "Hall of Fame" question where a lifetime of contribution is recognized on a persons individual accomplishments and contributions. Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************S T R E T C H your technology dollars with great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081712x1201714210/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2 D5) From stanleygregr at hotmail.com Thu Jul 16 15:40:58 2009 From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 12:40:58 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <27B6357101D44CA39E8A63689C788771@ET> References: <27B6357101D44CA39E8A63689C788771@ET> Message-ID: What if someone 'stole' someone's meteorites, could he (or she) still be the "Best" meteorite hunter. I would say no. Greg S ---------------------------------------- > From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:54:30 -0400 > Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > Darren, > > I have to agree. It's a simple matter of statistics, whoever finds the > mostest is the bestest! > Really, Osama vs. Jesus, that's too funny! You get my vote for the funniest > list member! > > Phil Whitmer > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From carothersdl at gmail.com Thu Jul 16 15:53:26 2009 From: carothersdl at gmail.com (dave carothers) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:53:26 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? References: <27B6357101D44CA39E8A63689C788771@ET> Message-ID: IMHO, it's not just who finds the most. Finding the meteorites is just half of the equation. Documenting the find, adding that information to to the common body of knowledge and contributing to the science of meteoritics is the second half. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" To: Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? > Darren, > > I have to agree. It's a simple matter of statistics, whoever finds the > mostest is the bestest! > Really, Osama vs. Jesus, that's too funny! You get my vote for the > funniest list member! > > Phil Whitmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jul 16 15:59:26 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:59:26 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFULMETEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: <27B6357101D44CA39E8A63689C788771@ET> Message-ID: <00a701ca064f$ecc46f40$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Be becalmed, if someone steals a meteorite, that will happen http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Leyden-Lot.png -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Stanley Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009 21:41 An: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFULMETEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? What if someone 'stole' someone's meteorites, could he (or she) still be the "Best" meteorite hunter. I would say no. Greg S ---------------------------------------- > From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:54:30 -0400 > Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > Darren, > > I have to agree. It's a simple matter of statistics, whoever finds the > mostest is the bestest! > Really, Osama vs. Jesus, that's too funny! You get my vote for the funniest > list member! > > Phil Whitmer > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jul 16 17:09:24 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:09:24 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: <27B6357101D44CA39E8A63689C788771@ET> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:53:26 -0400, you wrote: >IMHO, it's not just who finds the most. Finding the meteorites is just half >of the equation. Documenting the find, adding that information to to the >common body of knowledge and contributing to the science of meteoritics is >the second half. Again, I disagree. If you are trying to determine "meteorite role model" or "meteorite hero" or "meteorite idol", or "meteorite hoopy frood" then other stuff matters. For "best meteorite hunter", all that matters is who is best at finding meteorites. From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jul 16 16:06:24 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:06:24 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFULMETEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: <27B6357101D44CA39E8A63689C788771@ET> Message-ID: <00a901ca0650$e88ceaa0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> I'd say first step: numbers. Second step: personal things.. E.g. I for my own would take in the very consideration, what for sacrifices a hunter has to make. I know some hunters, so I know that the sacrifices can be enormous. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von dave carothers Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009 21:53 An: JoshuaTreeMuseum; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFULMETEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? IMHO, it's not just who finds the most. Finding the meteorites is just half of the equation. Documenting the find, adding that information to to the common body of knowledge and contributing to the science of meteoritics is the second half. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" To: Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? > Darren, > > I have to agree. It's a simple matter of statistics, whoever finds the > mostest is the bestest! > Really, Osama vs. Jesus, that's too funny! You get my vote for the > funniest list member! > > Phil Whitmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mlblood at cox.net Thu Jul 16 16:15:42 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:15:42 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE Worst and least SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi All, I nominate myself as the worst all time meteorite hunter. I have searched 12 strewn fields including the following and under The tutelage of no less than John Blennert at Gold Basin, The Lawrence Family who LIVE in the Correo Strewn Field and have found more than All others combined, and Steve Shoner, the Master of Holbrook: Correo Some stinking "Dry Lake" in CA Gold Bason Canyon Diablo Glorietta 29 Palms Holbrook Others too numerous to even remember..... My TOTAL "take" = one single Correo of 11.18g Can anyone challenge my all time failure as a hunter? I particularly remember walking parallel to John, only a few yards Off to John Blennert's right and watching Gold Basin meteorites Jump out of the ground and into his pockets. I swear at one Point he picked up 5 different specimens in less than 5 minutes! Me.... Well, not so good. If anyone can challenge the magnitude of my record as the Worst all time meteorite hunter, I double dog dare ya. Best wishes, Michael On 7/16/09 12:39 PM, "Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne" wrote: > In a message dated 7/16/2009 12:11:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com writes: > Steve Arnold is a contender, I think he beat > the pants off Mike at West, but didn't he have a 5 year long drought? > > ******* > Phil, > > I am honored by your mention, but we have to be serious here. I have only > hunted at 7 sites in the last 4 years, spending 90% of my time at two > sites. West was a fun 28 day detour in it all. > > Before 2005 I was an amateur meteorite hunter only hitting one or two > places a year with metal detector in hand. In 2003 I picked up 113 > meteorites > from Park Forest, one being 11 km from the main mass, I found the most > there, but I don't think anyone else was even trying to find a lot. > > For the most part, over the years I invested most of my time and made most > of my money from being a dealer not a hunter. > > If we are judging this by total weight recovered, I am beat by quite a few > people on lifetime numbers. If we are judged by total number recoveries > from different locations, there are many people who beat me. If we judge by > profit from meteorite sales of found meteorites, there are many more > higher on that list than I am. > > Maybe, if you judged success by most media coverage (TV, newspaper, Radio, > Magazines,internet, etc.) I would be at the top of that list. But I > hardly think that is a good barometer for determining the "Most Successful > Meteorite Hunter." > > Success is our world is often judged by the amount of money you make. So > who has made the most money? But what about people that are not in this > for the bottom line only? Cottingham mentioned not willing to sacrifice > family time to be gone from home too much. If his kids grow up emotionally > well balanced because he was in their lives more, but someone else finds more > meteorites but has a lousy home life, some people might argue who really > was more of a "success?" > > It is easier to measure who did the best at one location. Let's all go > to Holbrook for the weekend, and whomever finds the most in number wins the > title for the day. Or drop us off at Munonionalusta for a week, and we can > put the bounty on the scales 7 days later. Who found the biggest West? > Or the most Wests? Or the most total weight of Wests? Who will find the > most at this new Arizona Strewnfield? > > I think it might be possible to single out who might have had the best > year financially, in total weight, in total numbers etc in a given year, but > to stretch it out for more than a decade long period of time, that gets a > bit tough, and very subjective. > > Someone might be better or worse than their numbers indicate because of > other factors in their life. Others might just get a little lucky. > > It is all so subjective. > > And to top it off, I don't know if anyone out there is hell bent on > finding the most new meteorites, or the most total recovered weight, or the > biggest single meteorite of all time. Most of us do this because we love > it. > We love the challenge that each day brings, that each new fall brings, that > each old strewnfield with new clues brings. > > I would guess there are people that want to find as many as they can. Or > to find the biggest they can. And I am sure there are people that want to > make as much money as possible. But as with so many things in life, it > isn't so much beating everyone else, but beating mediocrity and being the > best > one can be. > > If being a husband, a father, a grandfather, a teacher, a dealer, a > scientists, etc. gets in the way of being a better "hunter" then we all make > those quality decisions at different times in our lives. > > And since this isn't like boxing, where one unquestionable champion holds > the title until someone takes it away from him, and since this isn't like > pro football with a Super Bowl game at the end of the playoffs, how do you > measure the current Champion? > > Maybe it would be better to look at this more like a "Hall of Fame" > question where a lifetime of contribution is recognized on a persons > individual > accomplishments and contributions. > > Steve Arnold > of "Meteorite Men" > > **************S T R E T C H your technology dollars with great laptop > deals from Dell! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081712x1201714210/aol?redir=http: > %2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2 > D5) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Thu Jul 16 16:18:28 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:18:28 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE Worst and least SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7C8C5D1C-9567-4B3B-88CC-DFD18B3DE79B@gilanet.com> That is real funny! Keep trying, your destined to find the 1st American Lunar! A kind of meteoritic justice. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:15 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > Hi All, > I nominate myself as the worst all time meteorite hunter. > I have searched 12 strewn fields including the following and under > The tutelage of no less than John Blennert at Gold Basin, The Lawrence > Family who LIVE in the Correo Strewn Field and have found more than > All others combined, and Steve Shoner, the Master of Holbrook: > Correo > Some stinking "Dry Lake" in CA > Gold Bason > Canyon Diablo > Glorietta > 29 Palms > Holbrook > Others too numerous to even remember..... > My TOTAL "take" = one single Correo of 11.18g > Can anyone challenge my all time failure as a hunter? > I particularly remember walking parallel to John, only a few yards > Off to John Blennert's right and watching Gold Basin meteorites > Jump out of the ground and into his pockets. I swear at one > Point he picked up 5 different specimens in less than 5 minutes! > Me.... Well, not so good. > If anyone can challenge the magnitude of my record as the > Worst all time meteorite hunter, I double dog dare ya. > Best wishes, Michael > > > > > > On 7/16/09 12:39 PM, "Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne" > wrote: > >> In a message dated 7/16/2009 12:11:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >> joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com writes: >> Steve Arnold is a contender, I think he beat >> the pants off Mike at West, but didn't he have a 5 year long >> drought? >> >> ******* >> Phil, >> >> I am honored by your mention, but we have to be serious here. I >> have only >> hunted at 7 sites in the last 4 years, spending 90% of my time at >> two >> sites. West was a fun 28 day detour in it all. >> >> Before 2005 I was an amateur meteorite hunter only hitting one or >> two >> places a year with metal detector in hand. In 2003 I picked up 113 >> meteorites >> from Park Forest, one being 11 km from the main mass, I found the >> most >> there, but I don't think anyone else was even trying to find a lot. >> >> For the most part, over the years I invested most of my time and >> made most >> of my money from being a dealer not a hunter. >> >> If we are judging this by total weight recovered, I am beat by >> quite a few >> people on lifetime numbers. If we are judged by total number >> recoveries >> from different locations, there are many people who beat me. If >> we judge by >> profit from meteorite sales of found meteorites, there are many more >> higher on that list than I am. >> >> Maybe, if you judged success by most media coverage (TV, >> newspaper, Radio, >> Magazines,internet, etc.) I would be at the top of that list. But I >> hardly think that is a good barometer for determining the "Most >> Successful >> Meteorite Hunter." >> >> Success is our world is often judged by the amount of money you >> make. So >> who has made the most money? But what about people that are not >> in this >> for the bottom line only? Cottingham mentioned not willing to >> sacrifice >> family time to be gone from home too much. If his kids grow up >> emotionally >> well balanced because he was in their lives more, but someone else >> finds more >> meteorites but has a lousy home life, some people might argue who >> really >> was more of a "success?" >> >> It is easier to measure who did the best at one location. Let's >> all go >> to Holbrook for the weekend, and whomever finds the most in number >> wins the >> title for the day. Or drop us off at Munonionalusta for a week, >> and we can >> put the bounty on the scales 7 days later. Who found the biggest >> West? >> Or the most Wests? Or the most total weight of Wests? Who will >> find the >> most at this new Arizona Strewnfield? >> >> I think it might be possible to single out who might have had the >> best >> year financially, in total weight, in total numbers etc in a given >> year, but >> to stretch it out for more than a decade long period of time, that >> gets a >> bit tough, and very subjective. >> >> Someone might be better or worse than their numbers indicate >> because of >> other factors in their life. Others might just get a little lucky. >> >> It is all so subjective. >> >> And to top it off, I don't know if anyone out there is hell bent on >> finding the most new meteorites, or the most total recovered >> weight, or the >> biggest single meteorite of all time. Most of us do this because >> we love >> it. >> We love the challenge that each day brings, that each new fall >> brings, that >> each old strewnfield with new clues brings. >> >> I would guess there are people that want to find as many as they >> can. Or >> to find the biggest they can. And I am sure there are people that >> want to >> make as much money as possible. But as with so many things in >> life, it >> isn't so much beating everyone else, but beating mediocrity and >> being the >> best >> one can be. >> >> If being a husband, a father, a grandfather, a teacher, a dealer, a >> scientists, etc. gets in the way of being a better "hunter" then >> we all make >> those quality decisions at different times in our lives. >> >> And since this isn't like boxing, where one unquestionable >> champion holds >> the title until someone takes it away from him, and since this >> isn't like >> pro football with a Super Bowl game at the end of the playoffs, >> how do you >> measure the current Champion? >> >> Maybe it would be better to look at this more like a "Hall of Fame" >> question where a lifetime of contribution is recognized on a persons >> individual >> accomplishments and contributions. >> >> Steve Arnold >> of "Meteorite Men" >> >> **************S T R E T C H your technology dollars with great >> laptop >> deals from Dell! >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081712x1201714210/aol?redir=http >> : >> %2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2 >> D5) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Thu Jul 16 16:28:05 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:28:05 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? Message-ID: <9B66C06521E44F438E60565F6B9B408D@ET> Steve, Thanks for setting the record straight. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of: who is the most famous or most popular of the current crop of meteorite hunters? 2 names immediately pop into my mind: Arnold & Farmer. I guess it's because of your Brenham publicity and The Meteorite Men that I thought you were a top contender. I haven't done my homework on who has found what and compiled it into a statistical analysis and ranking like various people did for the West fall. Has anyone thought about doing this? I sure don't have the time, with 2 jobs and 2 children under the age of 5. I don't think it could be done, except for number of meteorites officially classified. How many hunters are sitting on how many unclassified finds? And how do you define "find"? Does it count if you find meteorites at yard sales or Moroccan markets? I think a list of lifetime classifications would be a good starting point in determining the current Champion of the World. Phil Whitmer From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Thu Jul 16 16:27:44 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:27:44 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE Worst and least SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Michael Oh my god I just blew hot sauce out of My nose reading this! Frigging pricless. Dude you may not have foundany meteorites but you tried and that is all anyone can do. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:15 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > Hi All, > I nominate myself as the worst all time meteorite hunter. > I have searched 12 strewn fields including the following and under > The tutelage of no less than John Blennert at Gold Basin, The Lawrence > Family who LIVE in the Correo Strewn Field and have found more than > All others combined, and Steve Shoner, the Master of Holbrook: > Correo > Some stinking "Dry Lake" in CA > Gold Bason > Canyon Diablo > Glorietta > 29 Palms > Holbrook > Others too numerous to even remember..... > My TOTAL "take" = one single Correo of 11.18g > Can anyone challenge my all time failure as a hunter? > I particularly remember walking parallel to John, only a few yards > Off to John Blennert's right and watching Gold Basin meteorites > Jump out of the ground and into his pockets. I swear at one > Point he picked up 5 different specimens in less than 5 minutes! > Me.... Well, not so good. > If anyone can challenge the magnitude of my record as the > Worst all time meteorite hunter, I double dog dare ya. > Best wishes, Michael > > > > > > On 7/16/09 12:39 PM, "Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne" > wrote: > >> In a message dated 7/16/2009 12:11:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >> joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com writes: >> Steve Arnold is a contender, I think he beat >> the pants off Mike at West, but didn't he have a 5 year long >> drought? >> >> ******* >> Phil, >> >> I am honored by your mention, but we have to be serious here. I >> have only >> hunted at 7 sites in the last 4 years, spending 90% of my time at >> two >> sites. West was a fun 28 day detour in it all. >> >> Before 2005 I was an amateur meteorite hunter only hitting one or >> two >> places a year with metal detector in hand. In 2003 I picked up 113 >> meteorites >> from Park Forest, one being 11 km from the main mass, I found the >> most >> there, but I don't think anyone else was even trying to find a lot. >> >> For the most part, over the years I invested most of my time and >> made most >> of my money from being a dealer not a hunter. >> >> If we are judging this by total weight recovered, I am beat by >> quite a few >> people on lifetime numbers. If we are judged by total number >> recoveries >> from different locations, there are many people who beat me. If >> we judge by >> profit from meteorite sales of found meteorites, there are many more >> higher on that list than I am. >> >> Maybe, if you judged success by most media coverage (TV, >> newspaper, Radio, >> Magazines,internet, etc.) I would be at the top of that list. But I >> hardly think that is a good barometer for determining the "Most >> Successful >> Meteorite Hunter." >> >> Success is our world is often judged by the amount of money you >> make. So >> who has made the most money? But what about people that are not >> in this >> for the bottom line only? Cottingham mentioned not willing to >> sacrifice >> family time to be gone from home too much. If his kids grow up >> emotionally >> well balanced because he was in their lives more, but someone else >> finds more >> meteorites but has a lousy home life, some people might argue who >> really >> was more of a "success?" >> >> It is easier to measure who did the best at one location. Let's >> all go >> to Holbrook for the weekend, and whomever finds the most in number >> wins the >> title for the day. Or drop us off at Munonionalusta for a week, >> and we can >> put the bounty on the scales 7 days later. Who found the biggest >> West? >> Or the most Wests? Or the most total weight of Wests? Who will >> find the >> most at this new Arizona Strewnfield? >> >> I think it might be possible to single out who might have had the >> best >> year financially, in total weight, in total numbers etc in a given >> year, but >> to stretch it out for more than a decade long period of time, that >> gets a >> bit tough, and very subjective. >> >> Someone might be better or worse than their numbers indicate >> because of >> other factors in their life. Others might just get a little lucky. >> >> It is all so subjective. >> >> And to top it off, I don't know if anyone out there is hell bent on >> finding the most new meteorites, or the most total recovered >> weight, or the >> biggest single meteorite of all time. Most of us do this because >> we love >> it. >> We love the challenge that each day brings, that each new fall >> brings, that >> each old strewnfield with new clues brings. >> >> I would guess there are people that want to find as many as they >> can. Or >> to find the biggest they can. And I am sure there are people that >> want to >> make as much money as possible. But as with so many things in >> life, it >> isn't so much beating everyone else, but beating mediocrity and >> being the >> best >> one can be. >> >> If being a husband, a father, a grandfather, a teacher, a dealer, a >> scientists, etc. gets in the way of being a better "hunter" then >> we all make >> those quality decisions at different times in our lives. >> >> And since this isn't like boxing, where one unquestionable >> champion holds >> the title until someone takes it away from him, and since this >> isn't like >> pro football with a Super Bowl game at the end of the playoffs, >> how do you >> measure the current Champion? >> >> Maybe it would be better to look at this more like a "Hall of Fame" >> question where a lifetime of contribution is recognized on a persons >> individual >> accomplishments and contributions. >> >> Steve Arnold >> of "Meteorite Men" >> >> **************S T R E T C H your technology dollars with great >> laptop >> deals from Dell! >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081712x1201714210/aol?redir=http: >> %2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2 >> D5) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Thu Jul 16 16:32:25 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:32:25 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <9B66C06521E44F438E60565F6B9B408D@ET> References: <9B66C06521E44F438E60565F6B9B408D@ET> Message-ID: I do not consider moroccan meteorites huntin or finds unless you think piles of meteorites on a house floor is hunting. I have more than 800 middle eastern meteorites that found in the desert myself perhaps 500 kilos all in crates untouched. Moroccan stud is bought and not found and should be taken out of the hunting equasion. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:28 PM, "JoshuaTreeMuseum" wrote: > Steve, > > Thanks for setting the record straight. I guess I was thinking more > along the lines of: who is the most famous or most popular of the > current crop of meteorite hunters? 2 names immediately pop into my > mind: Arnold & Farmer. I guess it's because of your Brenham > publicity and The Meteorite Men that I thought you were a top > contender. I haven't done my homework on who has found what and > compiled it into a statistical analysis and ranking like various > people did for the West fall. Has anyone thought about doing this? I > sure don't have the time, with 2 jobs and 2 children under the age > of 5. I don't think it could be done, except for number of > meteorites officially classified. How many hunters are sitting on > how many unclassified finds? And how do you define "find"? Does it > count if you find meteorites at yard sales or Moroccan markets? I > think a list of lifetime classifications would be a good starting > point in determining the current Champion of the World. > > Phil Whitmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Thu Jul 16 16:39:54 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:39:54 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] THE BEST METEORITE HUNTER - An exercise in thinking... Message-ID: Hello, When I proposed the question my goal was to see the depth of what people were thinking these days. As we can see, there is a broad spectrum of thought on the question and no clear answer. I would simply add that ANYONE who gets out to hunt for meteorites is successful. If you find some, well that is the cream on the top. A bonus if you will for the journey undertaken. The thrill of finding your first meteorite is priceless and I wish everyone the best of luck in experiencing the joy of finding meteorites, whether it is one or a hundred. The "BEST" part of the question is ridiculous and will always be subjective. However, if you when the Tour de France, seven times, you are pretty damn good at what you do. Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From fcressy at prodigy.net Thu Jul 16 16:34:25 2009 From: fcressy at prodigy.net (Frank Cressy) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE Worst and least SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT... Message-ID: <326129.53063.qm@web80205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Michael, You're definitely not the worst hunter...but looks like you might be in the running as the worst finder though :-) It's like the difference between fishing and catching. I consider myself a good fisherman...catching fish is the difficult part! Cheers, Frank --- On Thu, 7/16/09, Michael Blood wrote: From: Michael Blood Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE Worst and least SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT... To: "Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne" , joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com, "Meteorite List" Date: Thursday, July 16, 2009, 1:15 PM Hi All, ? ? ? ? I nominate myself as the worst all time meteorite hunter. I have searched 12 strewn fields including the following and under The tutelage of no less than John Blennert at Gold Basin, The Lawrence Family who LIVE in the Correo Strewn Field and have found more than All others combined, and Steve Shoner, the Master of Holbrook: Correo Some stinking "Dry Lake" in CA Gold Bason Canyon Diablo Glorietta 29 Palms Holbrook Others too numerous to even remember..... ? ? ? ? My TOTAL "take" = one single Correo of 11.18g ? ? ? ? Can anyone challenge my all time failure as a hunter? I particularly remember walking parallel to John, only a few yards Off to John Blennert's right and watching Gold Basin meteorites Jump out of the ground and into his pockets. I swear at one Point he picked up 5 different specimens in less than 5 minutes! Me.... Well, not so good. ? ? ???If anyone can challenge the magnitude of my record as the Worst all time meteorite hunter, I double dog dare ya. ? ? ? ? Best wishes, Michael On 7/16/09 12:39 PM, "Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne" wrote: > In a message dated 7/16/2009 12:11:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com writes: > Steve Arnold is a contender, I? think he beat > the pants off Mike at West, but didn't he have a 5 year long? drought? > > ******* > Phil, > > I am honored by your mention, but we have to be serious? here.? I have only > hunted at 7 sites in the last 4 years, spending 90% of? my time at two > sites.? West was a fun 28 day detour in it? all. > > Before 2005 I was an amateur meteorite hunter only hitting one or? two > places a year with metal detector in hand.? In 2003 I picked up 113 > meteorites > from Park Forest, one being 11 km from the main mass, I found the? most > there, but I don't think anyone else was even trying to find a lot. > > For the most part, over the years I invested most of my time and made? most > of my money from being a dealer not a hunter. > > If we are judging this? by total weight recovered, I am beat by quite a few > people on lifetime? numbers.? If we are judged by total number recoveries > from different? locations, there are many people who beat me.? If we judge by > profit from? meteorite sales of found meteorites, there are many more > higher on that list? than I am. > > Maybe, if you judged success by most media coverage (TV,? newspaper, Radio, > Magazines,internet, etc.) I would be at the top of that? list.? But I > hardly think that is a good barometer for determining the? "Most Successful > Meteorite Hunter." > > Success is our world is often? judged by the amount of money you make.? So > who has made the most? money?? But what about people that are not in this > for the bottom line? only?? Cottingham mentioned not willing to sacrifice > family time to be gone? from home too much.? If his kids grow up emotionally > well balanced because? he was in their lives more, but someone else finds more > meteorites but has a? lousy home life, some people might argue who really > was more of a? "success?" > > It is easier to measure who did the best at one? location.???Let's all go > to Holbrook for the weekend, and whomever? finds the most in number wins the > title for the day.? Or drop us off at? Munonionalusta for a week, and we can > put the bounty on the scales 7 days? later.? Who found the biggest West? > Or the most Wests?? Or the? most total weight of Wests?? Who will find the > most at this new Arizona? Strewnfield? > > I think it might be possible to single out who might have? had the best > year financially, in total weight, in total numbers etc in a given? year, but > to stretch it out for more than a decade long period of time, that? gets a > bit tough, and very subjective. > > Someone might be better or worse? than their numbers indicate because of > other factors in their life.? Others? might just get a little lucky. > > It is all so? subjective. > > And to top it off, I don't know if anyone out there is hell? bent on > finding the most new meteorites, or the most total recovered weight, or? the > biggest single meteorite of all time.???Most of us do this because? we love > it.? > We love the challenge that each day brings, that each new fall? brings, that > each old strewnfield with new clues brings. > > I would? guess there are people that want to find as many as they can.? Or > to find? the biggest they can.? And I am sure there are people that want to > make as? much money as possible.? But as with so many things in life, it > isn't so? much beating everyone else, but beating mediocrity and being the > best > one can? be.? > > If being a husband, a father, a grandfather, a teacher, a? dealer, a > scientists, etc. gets in the way of being a better "hunter" then we? all make > those quality decisions at different times in our lives. > > And? since this isn't like boxing, where one unquestionable champion holds > the title? until someone takes it away from him, and since this isn't like > pro football? with a Super Bowl game at the end of the playoffs, how do you > measure the? current Champion? > > Maybe it would be better to look at this more like a? "Hall of Fame" > question where a lifetime of contribution is recognized on a? persons > individual > accomplishments and contributions. > > Steve Arnold > of? "Meteorite Men" >? > **************S T R E T C H? your technology dollars with great laptop > deals from Dell! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081712x1201714210/aol?redir=http: > %2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2 > D5) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Thu Jul 16 16:41:15 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:41:15 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: <9B66C06521E44F438E60565F6B9B408D@ET> Message-ID: <6EE235C5-A990-4478-A6FC-A8724596B29A@gilanet.com> What does a Moroccan stud have to do with meteorites? Michael On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:32 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: > I do not consider moroccan meteorites huntin or finds unless you > think piles of meteorites on a house floor is hunting. > I have more than 800 middle eastern meteorites that found in the > desert myself perhaps 500 kilos all in crates untouched. > Moroccan stud is bought and not found and should be taken out of the > hunting equasion. > Michael Farmer > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:28 PM, "JoshuaTreeMuseum" > wrote: > >> Steve, >> >> Thanks for setting the record straight. I guess I was thinking >> more along the lines of: who is the most famous or most popular of >> the current crop of meteorite hunters? 2 names immediately pop >> into my mind: Arnold & Farmer. I guess it's because of your Brenham >> publicity and The Meteorite Men that I thought you were a top >> contender. I haven't done my homework on who has found what and >> compiled it into a statistical analysis and ranking like various >> people did for the West fall. Has anyone thought about doing this? >> I sure don't have the time, with 2 jobs and 2 children under the >> age of 5. I don't think it could be done, except for number of >> meteorites officially classified. How many hunters are sitting on >> how many unclassified finds? And how do you define "find"? Does it >> count if you find meteorites at yard sales or Moroccan markets? I >> think a list of lifetime classifications would be a good starting >> point in determining the current Champion of the World. >> >> Phil Whitmer >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Thu Jul 16 16:43:00 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:43:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? Message-ID: <472095.47615.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I meant stuff. Hard to type o. This phone and it changes words automatically. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:41 PM, michael cottingham wrote: What does a Moroccan stud have to do with meteorites? Michael On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:32 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: I do not consider moroccan meteorites huntin or finds unless you think piles of meteorites on a house floor is hunting. I have more than 800 middle eastern meteorites that found in the desert myself perhaps 500 kilos all in crates untouched. Moroccan stud is bought and not found and should be taken out of the hunting equasion. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:28 PM, "JoshuaTreeMuseum" wrote: Steve, Thanks for setting the record straight. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of: who is the most famous or most popular of the current crop of meteorite hunters? 2 names immediately pop into my mind: Arnold & Farmer. I guess it's because of your Brenham publicity and The Meteorite Men that I thought you were a top contender. I haven't done my homework on who has found what and compiled it into a statistical analysis and ranking like various people did for the West fall. Has anyone thought about doing this? I sure don't have the time, with 2 jobs and 2 children under the age of 5. I don't think it could be done, except for number of meteorites officially classified. How many hunters are sitting on how many unclassified finds? And how do you define "find"? Does it count if you find meteorites at yard sales or Moroccan markets? I think a list of lifetime classifications would be a good starting point in determining the current Champion of the World. Phil Whitmer ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Thu Jul 16 16:44:46 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:44:46 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <472095.47615.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <472095.47615.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9A35D1A7-D3E8-462C-8E9F-D56025FB7643@gilanet.com> It was funny though and I can't believe anyone can type anything on those small keys!!! Best Wishes Michael On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: > > I meant stuff. Hard to type o. This phone and it changes words > automatically. > Michael Farmer > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:41 PM, michael cottingham > wrote: > > What does a Moroccan stud have to do with meteorites? > > Michael > On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:32 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: > > I do not consider moroccan meteorites huntin or finds unless you > think piles of meteorites on a house floor is hunting. > I have more than 800 middle eastern meteorites that found in the > desert myself perhaps 500 kilos all in crates untouched. > Moroccan stud is bought and not found and should be taken out of the > hunting equasion. > Michael Farmer > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:28 PM, "JoshuaTreeMuseum" > wrote: > > Steve, > > Thanks for setting the record straight. I guess I was thinking more > along the lines of: who is the most famous or most popular of the > current crop of meteorite hunters? 2 names immediately pop into my > mind: Arnold & Farmer. I guess it's because of your Brenham > publicity and The Meteorite Men that I thought you were a top > contender. I haven't done my homework on who has found what and > compiled it into a statistical analysis and ranking like various > people did for the West fall. Has anyone thought about doing this? I > sure don't have the time, with 2 jobs and 2 children under the age > of 5. I don't think it could be done, except for number of > meteorites officially classified. How many hunters are sitting on > how many unclassified finds? And how do you define "find"? Does it > count if you find meteorites at yard sales or Moroccan markets? I > think a list of lifetime classifications would be a good starting > point in determining the current Champion of the > World. > > Phil Whitmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Thu Jul 16 16:49:15 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:49:15 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? Message-ID: Ok, actually when I think Meteorite Hunter; I think of: Haag, Farmer, Arnold, Cottingham, Blood, countless nameless Moroccans, Wilson, Garcia, Notkin, The Russkies, Svend, Sonny, Kilgore, Casper, Strope, The Antarcticans, The Hupe boys, Bob Evans, Aziz, Hmani, Lang, Ferrell, Reed, Pitt, Bessey, Elton, Edwin, several different Erics, Bruno, Cressey, Foote, several Gregs, Hanno, Hans, Jan, the two Jasons, Jerry, all the Jims, Humphries, and Kashuba. These are the people I think of. But then again, I get most of my information from the List. I'm sure there are many more I'm forgetting, but rightly or wrongly these are the people that come to mind when I think: Meteorite Hunter. Phil Whitmer From stanleygregr at hotmail.com Thu Jul 16 17:04:48 2009 From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:04:48 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <472095.47615.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <472095.47615.qm@web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You can also use a mathematical approach: Total finds divided by total time spent then multiply that number by a rating: 10.0 for lunar meteorites 9.0 for Mars . . . 1.0 for Ordinary Chondrites Then take that number and divide it by the total money spent to hunt. Who ever has then highest number is the most successful. Greg S. ---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:43:00 -0700 > From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > To: mikewren at gilanet.com > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? > > > I meant stuff. Hard to type o. This phone and it changes words automatically. > Michael Farmer > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:41 PM, michael cottingham wrote: > > What does a Moroccan stud have to do with meteorites? > > Michael > On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:32 PM, Michael Farmer wrote: > > I do not consider moroccan meteorites huntin or finds unless you think piles of meteorites on a house floor is hunting. > I have more than 800 middle eastern meteorites that found in the desert myself perhaps 500 kilos all in crates untouched. > Moroccan stud is bought and not found and should be taken out of the hunting equasion. > Michael Farmer > > Sent from my iPhone > Michael > > > On Jul 16, 2009, at 1:28 PM, "JoshuaTreeMuseum" wrote: > > Steve, > > Thanks for setting the record straight. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of: who is the most famous or most popular of the current crop of meteorite hunters? 2 names immediately pop into my mind: Arnold & Farmer. I guess it's because of your Brenham publicity and The Meteorite Men that I thought you were a top contender. I haven't done my homework on who has found what and compiled it into a statistical analysis and ranking like various people did for the West fall. Has anyone thought about doing this? I sure don't have the time, with 2 jobs and 2 children under the age of 5. I don't think it could be done, except for number of meteorites officially classified. How many hunters are sitting on how many unclassified finds? And how do you define "find"? Does it count if you find meteorites at yard sales or Moroccan markets? I think a list of lifetime classifications would be a good starting point in determining the current Champion of the > World. > > Phil Whitmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 From tett at rogers.com Thu Jul 16 17:09:52 2009 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:09:52 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Arizona fall better photos, check this out! In-Reply-To: <45105.44898.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <45105.44898.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A5F9720.5020100@rogers.com> Michael, That stone is gorgeous! After two hard weeks of hunting it must be wonderful to find such a treasure. Kudos to you for not giving up. Congratulations! Mike Tettenborn Michael Farmer wrote: > http://www.meteoriteguy.com/collection/azfall.htm > > > www.meteoritehunter.com > > > I put a page together quickly to show the stone I found yesterday. > This is truly the best oriented meteorite I have ever found. > > I owe it all to Dr. Jack Schrader, who's detective work allowed this new meteorite fall to be recovered and who generously invited me to work with him in mapping this new strewnfield. > thanks Jack! > > > This stone exhibits on the low pressure side, the exact same silver spots observed on a few of the Ash Creek (West) stones. This is even after several hard rains since the fall, however since the stone was found backside down, that area was protected somewhat from the rain. > > Off to the field, now, but enjoy the newest meteorite recovered. > Michael Farmer > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Thu Jul 16 17:22:04 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:22:04 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Arizona fall better photos, check this out! In-Reply-To: <4A5F9720.5020100@rogers.com> References: <45105.44898.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4A5F9720.5020100@rogers.com> Message-ID: Thanks mike I was dreaming about it last night! Roasting out here but hoping for another. Michael Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jul 16, 2009, at 2:09 PM, tett wrote: From geoking at notkin.net Thu Jul 16 17:25:01 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:25:01 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE Worst and least SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <161022FB-4644-490B-97EB-E15FC71793EB@notkin.net> Michael Blood wrote: > I nominate myself as the worst all time meteorite hunter. Dear Michael: You may be one of the less successful field hunters, but your sense of humor and modesty are unparalleled in the meteorite world and could set a very good example for some : ) And those Correos are difficult to find, so don't be so hard on yourself. Also, you're no slouch behind the auctioneer's podium. Cheers from Tucson, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com www.meteoriteblog.org From eric at meteoritesusa.com Thu Jul 16 17:25:52 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:25:52 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mason Dixon (PA) Fireball Video - Redux Message-ID: <4A5F9AE0.3000600@meteoritesusa.com> Hi List, Mike Hankey has posted a video simulation of the July 6th fireball he photographed over his home giving everyone a new perspective on the fireball which graced the skies over the northeast. For those of you who are unfamilar with the fireball (as if), here's the original story on Mike's site: http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/comets/meteor-over-baltimore/ Fireball Simulation Video http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/baltimore-pa-meteor/video-simulation-of-meteor/ Very cool simulation... Whether it's accurate in trajectory remains to be determined. It doesn't matter much really. To have captured this fireball in a photograph is an exceptional thing. The chances of photographing a fireball like this are astronomically slim! Every pun intended. Enjoy... -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From geoking at notkin.net Thu Jul 16 17:34:58 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:34:58 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITEHUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: > Ok, actually when I think Meteorite Hunter; I think of . . . Casper Hah! That is a really good one. Despite what it says in that Space.com article Casper never hunted meteorites a day in his life. He slouched behind a desk chain smoking and acting in a horrible manner towards other meteorite dealers and real hunters. Phil, yes, you do need to do a little more homework. No disrespect to you, just correcting a significant error in your list : ) Salut, Geoff N. From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jul 16 17:40:14 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 16 Jul 2009 21:40:14 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Successful Hunters Out There Message-ID: Geoff wrote: "just correcting a significant error in your list" There are quite a few more! Just a few examples: - Jim Kriegh, Twink Monrad, John Blennert (Gold Basin!) - Philippe and L?a - Michel Franco (who used to hunt in the Hot Deserts of NWA) - Fred Beroud - the Killgore family - Rodrigo Martinez - Mike Miller - Steve Schoner - Bob Verish - Moni Waiblinger Never hunted but almost did last February, Bernd From countdeiro at earthlink.net Thu Jul 16 17:55:42 2009 From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 14:55:42 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mason Dixon (PA) Fireball Video - Redux Message-ID: <28452031.1247781342421.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hound.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Thanks Eric. Interesting concept. Wonder if it works and is of use to the guys in the field? And to Mike Hankey and the inimitable Dr. Vincente Perlien: Un effort remarquable et bien fait. Meilleurs ?gards, Comte Deiro -----Original Message----- >From: Meteorites USA >Sent: Jul 16, 2009 2:25 PM >To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" >Subject: [meteorite-list] Mason Dixon (PA) Fireball Video - Redux > >Hi List, > >Mike Hankey has posted a video simulation of the July 6th fireball he >photographed over his home giving everyone a new perspective on the >fireball which graced the skies over the northeast. > >For those of you who are unfamilar with the fireball (as if), here's the >original story on Mike's site: >http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/comets/meteor-over-baltimore/ > >Fireball Simulation Video >http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/baltimore-pa-meteor/video-simulation-of-meteor/ > >Very cool simulation... Whether it's accurate in trajectory remains to >be determined. It doesn't matter much really. To have captured this >fireball in a photograph is an exceptional thing. The chances of >photographing a fireball like this are astronomically slim! Every pun >intended. > >Enjoy... > >-- >Regards, >Eric Wichman >Meteorites USA > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stanleygregr at hotmail.com Thu Jul 16 18:00:40 2009 From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:00:40 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Successful Hunters Out There In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don't forget: - Rob Matson ---------------------------------------- > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de > Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:40:14 +0000 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Successful Hunters Out There > > Geoff wrote: "just correcting a significant error in your list" > > There are quite a few more! > > Just a few examples: > > - Jim Kriegh, Twink Monrad, John Blennert (Gold Basin!) > - Philippe and L?a > - Michel Franco (who used to hunt in the Hot Deserts of NWA) > - Fred Beroud > - the Killgore family > - Rodrigo Martinez > - Mike Miller > - Steve Schoner > - Bob Verish > - Moni Waiblinger > > Never hunted but almost > did last February, > > Bernd > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 From almitt at kconline.com Thu Jul 16 18:13:04 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:13:04 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2996B3A8C3434603AF86CB3E6C342FC2@StarmanPC> Greetings List, Not sure where this idea that Harvey Nininger wasn't a meteorite hunter came from but it is wrong. He was a meteorite hunter, he chased falls, plotted areas they fell in and went to those areas to search. He also hunted in areas that he was in. He did that while hunting for scrap metal during world war 2. He was effective at getting people to look for him. I would say that is using your head so more specimens could be found and using people that were familiar with the land to hunt those areas. When Norton County fell, Nininger was standing on top of the meteorite when Lincoln LaPaz and his friend arrived and looked down to see Nininger already there. Don't tell me that hunters these days don't get local people to hunt and go back to buy later. Sure they hunt themselves but getting others to help expedites finds. One would have to define what a meteorite hunter is (as mentioned already in this thread). Just because it doesn't fit your definition doesn't mean that hunting in a specific way is wrong or excludes you as a hunter. People making the claim that Nininger wasn't a hunter, haven't read all his books and don't know the extreme efforts he went to finding new specimens. He often went back to areas and conducted hunts while also approaching people who might know something about a find or fall. Plainview, Texas is one area that he hunted extensively finding more specimens to collect and trade. He went into Mexico chasing down leads which were pretty risky back then. One also has to remember the time and conditions in which Harvey Nininger hunted. He hunted in the depression era but was still able to persuade investors to buy into his hunts. Transportation was not good back then. Lots of dirt roads and hazards along the way while driving his model T. Patching tires in deep mud. Making it three or four hundred miles was tough. Flying back then was expensive and not real common. There were no interstate roads that you could jump in your car and drive 700 miles a day easily. Metal detectors weren't as effective and bulky. People were very cautious of strangers in their towns and on their ranches and farms. Harvey mentioned that for every successful trip, there were dozens of other trips that didn't pan out. He wasn't eager to mention the trips that weren't successful. If he found or was able to have others help him find over 222 new finds or falls and over a thousand meteorite specimens, he certainly picked up a number of meteorite specimens himself. Multiply 222 times a dozen or two (trips or leads that weren't successful) and you have nearly 5,000 to 6,000 trips and hunts. Divide by a forty year span of time and you have about 125 trips or hunts a year! How many trips are people making these days using modern transportation? Nininger would often and smartly combine trips but that is still a lot of hunting in my book. Nininger used Farington's book on meteorites 1915 to hunt down old strewnfields. I'll try to dig up some of his personal finds and post them here when time permits. Saying Harvey Nininger wasn't hardly a meteorite hunter shows a great deal of ignorance and such people making claims should read some of his books he wrote to educate themselves. Best! --AL Mitterling From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Thu Jul 16 18:33:20 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:33:20 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE Worst and least SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER O... Message-ID: Hi Michael, I just might have you beat. I spend most of my meteorite time on the microscopes but I have spent more days hunting than I care to remember and nothing. My icing on the cake was when I took my son to Gold Basin and was certain he would find some thing. I bought a 156 gr. Gold Basin on eBay and placed it under a bush. We hunted around so as to not make it look obvious of what I had done and then we worked our way back to the hidden stone. Two hours of looking for it and it was lost. He was done with that area and wanted to move on. I kept saying "There has got to be one here, I just know it!" Never did find that one! Tom In a message dated 7/16/2009 2:16:01 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, mlblood at cox.net writes: Hi All, I nominate myself as the worst all time meteorite hunter. I have searched 12 strewn fields including the following and under The tutelage of no less than John Blennert at Gold Basin, The Lawrence Family who LIVE in the Correo Strewn Field and have found more than All others combined, and Steve Shoner, the Master of Holbrook: Correo Some stinking "Dry Lake" in CA Gold Bason Canyon Diablo Glorietta 29 Palms Holbrook Others too numerous to even remember..... My TOTAL "take" = one single Correo of 11.18g Can anyone challenge my all time failure as a hunter? I particularly remember walking parallel to John, only a few yards Off to John Blennert's right and watching Gold Basin meteorites Jump out of the ground and into his pockets. I swear at one Point he picked up 5 different specimens in less than 5 minutes! Me.... Well, not so good. If anyone can challenge the magnitude of my record as the Worst all time meteorite hunter, I double dog dare ya. Best wishes, Michael On 7/16/09 12:39 PM, "Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne" wrote: > In a message dated 7/16/2009 12:11:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com writes: > Steve Arnold is a contender, I think he beat > the pants off Mike at West, but didn't he have a 5 year long drought? > > ******* > Phil, > > I am honored by your mention, but we have to be serious here. I have only > hunted at 7 sites in the last 4 years, spending 90% of my time at two > sites. West was a fun 28 day detour in it all. > > Before 2005 I was an amateur meteorite hunter only hitting one or two > places a year with metal detector in hand. In 2003 I picked up 113 > meteorites > from Park Forest, one being 11 km from the main mass, I found the most > there, but I don't think anyone else was even trying to find a lot. > > For the most part, over the years I invested most of my time and made most > of my money from being a dealer not a hunter. > > If we are judging this by total weight recovered, I am beat by quite a few > people on lifetime numbers. If we are judged by total number recoveries > from different locations, there are many people who beat me. If we judge by > profit from meteorite sales of found meteorites, there are many more > higher on that list than I am. > > Maybe, if you judged success by most media coverage (TV, newspaper, Radio, > Magazines,internet, etc.) I would be at the top of that list. But I > hardly think that is a good barometer for determining the "Most Successful > Meteorite Hunter." > > Success is our world is often judged by the amount of money you make. So > who has made the most money? But what about people that are not in this > for the bottom line only? Cottingham mentioned not willing to sacrifice > family time to be gone from home too much. If his kids grow up emotionally > well balanced because he was in their lives more, but someone else finds more > meteorites but has a lousy home life, some people might argue who really > was more of a "success?" > > It is easier to measure who did the best at one location. Let's all go > to Holbrook for the weekend, and whomever finds the most in number wins the > title for the day. Or drop us off at Munonionalusta for a week, and we can > put the bounty on the scales 7 days later. Who found the biggest West? > Or the most Wests? Or the most total weight of Wests? Who will find the > most at this new Arizona Strewnfield? > > I think it might be possible to single out who might have had the best > year financially, in total weight, in total numbers etc in a given year, but > to stretch it out for more than a decade long period of time, that gets a > bit tough, and very subjective. > > Someone might be better or worse than their numbers indicate because of > other factors in their life. Others might just get a little lucky. > > It is all so subjective. > > And to top it off, I don't know if anyone out there is hell bent on > finding the most new meteorites, or the most total recovered weight, or the > biggest single meteorite of all time. Most of us do this because we love > it. > We love the challenge that each day brings, that each new fall brings, that > each old strewnfield with new clues brings. > > I would guess there are people that want to find as many as they can. Or > to find the biggest they can. And I am sure there are people that want to > make as much money as possible. But as with so many things in life, it > isn't so much beating everyone else, but beating mediocrity and being the > best > one can be. > > If being a husband, a father, a grandfather, a teacher, a dealer, a > scientists, etc. gets in the way of being a better "hunter" then we all make > those quality decisions at different times in our lives. > > And since this isn't like boxing, where one unquestionable champion holds > the title until someone takes it away from him, and since this isn't like > pro football with a Super Bowl game at the end of the playoffs, how do you > measure the current Champion? > > Maybe it would be better to look at this more like a "Hall of Fame" > question where a lifetime of contribution is recognized on a persons > individual > accomplishments and contributions. > > Steve Arnold > of "Meteorite Men" > > **************S T R E T C H your technology dollars with great laptop > deals from Dell! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081712x1201714210/aol?redir=http: > %2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2 > D5) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************S T R E T C H your technology dollars with great laptop deals from Dell! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081712x1201714210/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2 D5) From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Thu Jul 16 18:37:24 2009 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 15:37:24 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE Worst and least SUCCESSFULMETEORITE HUNTER O... References: Message-ID: <1F18D370A8214FD3A0FB5E66D0FE6F4E@windows9bb74fe> That's pretty hard to beat Tom. I once lost a chameleon, that's what you get for putting them back outside. Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/nakhladog ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 3:33 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE Worst and least SUCCESSFULMETEORITE HUNTER O... > Hi Michael, I just might have you beat. I spend most of my meteorite > time on the microscopes but I have spent more days hunting than I care to > remember and nothing. > > My icing on the cake was when I took my son to Gold Basin and was certain > he would find some thing. I bought a 156 gr. Gold Basin on eBay and > placed > it under a bush. We hunted around so as to not make it look obvious of > what I had done and then we worked our way back to the hidden stone. Two > hours of looking for it and it was lost. He was done with that area and > wanted to move on. I kept saying "There has got to be one here, I just > know > it!" > > Never did find that one! > > Tom > > In a message dated 7/16/2009 2:16:01 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > mlblood at cox.net writes: > Hi All, > I nominate myself as the worst all time meteorite hunter. > I have searched 12 strewn fields including the following and under > The tutelage of no less than John Blennert at Gold Basin, The Lawrence > Family who LIVE in the Correo Strewn Field and have found more than > All others combined, and Steve Shoner, the Master of Holbrook: > Correo > Some stinking "Dry Lake" in CA > Gold Bason > Canyon Diablo > Glorietta > 29 Palms > Holbrook > Others too numerous to even remember..... > My TOTAL "take" = one single Correo of 11.18g > Can anyone challenge my all time failure as a hunter? > I particularly remember walking parallel to John, only a few yards > Off to John Blennert's right and watching Gold Basin meteorites > Jump out of the ground and into his pockets. I swear at one > Point he picked up 5 different specimens in less than 5 minutes! > Me.... Well, not so good. > If anyone can challenge the magnitude of my record as the > Worst all time meteorite hunter, I double dog dare ya. > Best wishes, Michael > > > > > > On 7/16/09 12:39 PM, "Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne" > wrote: > >> In a message dated 7/16/2009 12:11:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >> joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com writes: >> Steve Arnold is a contender, I think he beat >> the pants off Mike at West, but didn't he have a 5 year long drought? >> >> ******* >> Phil, >> >> I am honored by your mention, but we have to be serious here. I have > only >> hunted at 7 sites in the last 4 years, spending 90% of my time at two >> sites. West was a fun 28 day detour in it all. >> >> Before 2005 I was an amateur meteorite hunter only hitting one or two >> places a year with metal detector in hand. In 2003 I picked up 113 >> meteorites >> from Park Forest, one being 11 km from the main mass, I found the most >> there, but I don't think anyone else was even trying to find a lot. >> >> For the most part, over the years I invested most of my time and made > most >> of my money from being a dealer not a hunter. >> >> If we are judging this by total weight recovered, I am beat by quite a > few >> people on lifetime numbers. If we are judged by total number >> recoveries >> from different locations, there are many people who beat me. If we > judge by >> profit from meteorite sales of found meteorites, there are many more >> higher on that list than I am. >> >> Maybe, if you judged success by most media coverage (TV, newspaper, > Radio, >> Magazines,internet, etc.) I would be at the top of that list. But I >> hardly think that is a good barometer for determining the "Most > Successful >> Meteorite Hunter." >> >> Success is our world is often judged by the amount of money you make. > So >> who has made the most money? But what about people that are not in > this >> for the bottom line only? Cottingham mentioned not willing to >> sacrifice >> family time to be gone from home too much. If his kids grow up > emotionally >> well balanced because he was in their lives more, but someone else > finds more >> meteorites but has a lousy home life, some people might argue who >> really >> was more of a "success?" >> >> It is easier to measure who did the best at one location. Let's all >> go >> to Holbrook for the weekend, and whomever finds the most in number wins > the >> title for the day. Or drop us off at Munonionalusta for a week, and we > can >> put the bounty on the scales 7 days later. Who found the biggest West? >> Or the most Wests? Or the most total weight of Wests? Who will find > the >> most at this new Arizona Strewnfield? >> >> I think it might be possible to single out who might have had the best >> year financially, in total weight, in total numbers etc in a given > year, but >> to stretch it out for more than a decade long period of time, that gets > a >> bit tough, and very subjective. >> >> Someone might be better or worse than their numbers indicate because of >> other factors in their life. Others might just get a little lucky. >> >> It is all so subjective. >> >> And to top it off, I don't know if anyone out there is hell bent on >> finding the most new meteorites, or the most total recovered weight, or > the >> biggest single meteorite of all time. Most of us do this because we > love >> it. >> We love the challenge that each day brings, that each new fall brings, > that >> each old strewnfield with new clues brings. >> >> I would guess there are people that want to find as many as they can. > Or >> to find the biggest they can. And I am sure there are people that want > to >> make as much money as possible. But as with so many things in life, it >> isn't so much beating everyone else, but beating mediocrity and being > the >> best >> one can be. >> >> If being a husband, a father, a grandfather, a teacher, a dealer, a >> scientists, etc. gets in the way of being a better "hunter" then we all > make >> those quality decisions at different times in our lives. >> >> And since this isn't like boxing, where one unquestionable champion > holds >> the title until someone takes it away from him, and since this isn't > like >> pro football with a Super Bowl game at the end of the playoffs, how do > you >> measure the current Champion? >> >> Maybe it would be better to look at this more like a "Hall of Fame" >> question where a lifetime of contribution is recognized on a persons >> individual >> accomplishments and contributions. >> >> Steve Arnold >> of "Meteorite Men" >> >> **************S T R E T C H your technology dollars with great laptop >> deals from Dell! >> > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081712x1201714210/aol?redir=http: >> %2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2 >> D5) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > **************S T R E T C H your technology dollars with great laptop > deals from Dell! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081712x1201714210/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2 > D5) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From prairiecactus at rtcol.com Thu Jul 16 18:30:21 2009 From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:30:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? Message-ID: Geoff, I didn't say they were actual meteorite hunters, I just named off the people I've heard of that I associated with meteorite hunting. You're right, I know nothing except rumors and hearsay about Casper. I would expect that you're also offended by the inclusion of B.E. But at least I didn't mention S.A.II. Again, these are people I associate with meteorite hunting, nothing more. Phil Whitmer From daistiho at hotmail.com Thu Jul 16 18:43:58 2009 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:43:58 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE BEST AND MOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: References: <411708604A584BCABDAC25A6F9D95FD5@ET> Message-ID: Just look through back issues of Meteorite Times. The Meteorite People is like a who's who of hunters and mentors to the field. Best! Tracy Latimer _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jul 16 18:39:26 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 16 Jul 2009 22:39:26 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Worst and least successful meteorite hunter Message-ID: Tom wrote: "Two hours of looking for it and it was lost." :-)) But, the idea is not quite new. Mon, 10 May 1999, John Blennert wrote this in a personal mail to me: "I would like to extend a personal invitation for you to hunt Gold Basin. I will loan you a goldmaster metal detector and be your personal guide...I guarantee you'll find a few meteorites if I have to throw them at you ? HE HE." Well, John sent me two beautiful Gold Basin meteorites as a gift and they are extraordinary pieces with quite a good show of crust. Insiders will know that it is not easy to find Gold Basin meteorites with a such a good show of crust! Of course, these meteorites are still in my collection and will stay there for the rest of my days! Thanks John, Thanks List for listening, Bernd From meteoritemike at gmail.com Thu Jul 16 19:14:57 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:14:57 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <2996B3A8C3434603AF86CB3E6C342FC2@StarmanPC> References: <2996B3A8C3434603AF86CB3E6C342FC2@StarmanPC> Message-ID: Excellent reply Al. I couldn't agree more. I recall reading about Nininger going down to Mexico to look for Toluca (was it?), and the trip sounded very interesting - given the times, like you said. If Harvey wasn't the "best" hunter, then he was the type of meteorite personality that this hobby could use today - no offense to any of the current personalities. With the passing of Richard Norton and Jim Kriegh, this hobby is becoming short on gentlemanly ambassadors of great wisdom. Best regards, MikeG On 7/16/09, al mitt wrote: > Greetings List, > > Not sure where this idea that Harvey Nininger wasn't a meteorite hunter came > from but it is wrong. He was a meteorite hunter, he chased falls, plotted > areas they fell in and went to those areas to search. He also hunted in > areas that he was in. He did that while hunting for scrap metal during world > war 2. He was effective at getting people to look for him. I would say that > is using your head so more specimens could be found and using people that > were familiar with the land to hunt those areas. When Norton County fell, > Nininger was standing on top of the meteorite when Lincoln LaPaz and his > friend arrived and looked down to see Nininger already there. Don't tell me > that hunters these days don't get local people to hunt and go back to buy > later. Sure they hunt themselves but getting others to help expedites finds. > > One would have to define what a meteorite hunter is (as mentioned already in > this thread). Just because it doesn't fit your definition doesn't mean that > hunting in a specific way is wrong or excludes you as a hunter. People > making the claim that Nininger wasn't a hunter, haven't read all his books > and don't know the extreme efforts he went to finding new specimens. He > often went back to areas and conducted hunts while also approaching people > who might know something about a find or fall. Plainview, Texas is one area > that he hunted extensively finding more specimens to collect and trade. He > went into Mexico chasing down leads which were pretty risky back then. > > One also has to remember the time and conditions in which Harvey Nininger > hunted. He hunted in the depression era but was still able to persuade > investors to buy into his hunts. Transportation was not good back then. Lots > of dirt roads and hazards along the way while driving his model T. Patching > tires in deep mud. Making it three or four hundred miles was tough. Flying > back then was expensive and not real common. There were no interstate roads > that you could jump in your car and drive 700 miles a day easily. > > Metal detectors weren't as effective and bulky. People were very cautious of > strangers in their towns and on their ranches and farms. Harvey mentioned > that for every successful trip, there were dozens of other trips that didn't > pan out. He wasn't eager to mention the trips that weren't successful. If he > found or was able to have others help him find over 222 new finds or falls > and over a thousand meteorite specimens, he certainly picked up a number of > meteorite specimens himself. Multiply 222 times a dozen or two (trips or > leads that weren't successful) and you have nearly 5,000 to 6,000 trips and > hunts. Divide by a forty year span of time and you have about 125 trips or > hunts a year! How many trips are people making these days using modern > transportation? Nininger would often and smartly combine trips but that is > still a lot of hunting in my book. > > Nininger used Farington's book on meteorites 1915 to hunt down old > strewnfields. I'll try to dig up some of his personal finds and post them > here when time permits. Saying Harvey Nininger wasn't hardly a meteorite > hunter shows a great deal of ignorance and such people making claims should > read some of his books he wrote to educate themselves. Best! > > --AL Mitterling > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoritemike at gmail.com Thu Jul 16 19:16:30 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:16:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] WHO IS THE Worst and least SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER O... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tom, that story beats all! LOL And I agree - Michael Blood may be one of the worst finders, but he's a great guy. :) Best regards, MikeG On 7/16/09, STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com wrote: > Hi Michael, I just might have you beat. I spend most of my meteorite > time on the microscopes but I have spent more days hunting than I care to > remember and nothing. > > My icing on the cake was when I took my son to Gold Basin and was certain > he would find some thing. I bought a 156 gr. Gold Basin on eBay and placed > it under a bush. We hunted around so as to not make it look obvious of > what I had done and then we worked our way back to the hidden stone. Two > hours of looking for it and it was lost. He was done with that area and > wanted to move on. I kept saying "There has got to be one here, I just > know > it!" > > Never did find that one! > > Tom > > In a message dated 7/16/2009 2:16:01 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > mlblood at cox.net writes: > Hi All, > I nominate myself as the worst all time meteorite hunter. > I have searched 12 strewn fields including the following and under > The tutelage of no less than John Blennert at Gold Basin, The Lawrence > Family who LIVE in the Correo Strewn Field and have found more than > All others combined, and Steve Shoner, the Master of Holbrook: > Correo > Some stinking "Dry Lake" in CA > Gold Bason > Canyon Diablo > Glorietta > 29 Palms > Holbrook > Others too numerous to even remember..... > My TOTAL "take" = one single Correo of 11.18g > Can anyone challenge my all time failure as a hunter? > I particularly remember walking parallel to John, only a few yards > Off to John Blennert's right and watching Gold Basin meteorites > Jump out of the ground and into his pockets. I swear at one > Point he picked up 5 different specimens in less than 5 minutes! > Me.... Well, not so good. > If anyone can challenge the magnitude of my record as the > Worst all time meteorite hunter, I double dog dare ya. > Best wishes, Michael > > > > > > On 7/16/09 12:39 PM, "Steve Arnold dealer/Qynne" > wrote: > >> In a message dated 7/16/2009 12:11:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >> joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com writes: >> Steve Arnold is a contender, I think he beat >> the pants off Mike at West, but didn't he have a 5 year long drought? >> >> ******* >> Phil, >> >> I am honored by your mention, but we have to be serious here. I have > only >> hunted at 7 sites in the last 4 years, spending 90% of my time at two >> sites. West was a fun 28 day detour in it all. >> >> Before 2005 I was an amateur meteorite hunter only hitting one or two >> places a year with metal detector in hand. In 2003 I picked up 113 >> meteorites >> from Park Forest, one being 11 km from the main mass, I found the most >> there, but I don't think anyone else was even trying to find a lot. >> >> For the most part, over the years I invested most of my time and made > most >> of my money from being a dealer not a hunter. >> >> If we are judging this by total weight recovered, I am beat by quite a > few >> people on lifetime numbers. If we are judged by total number recoveries >> from different locations, there are many people who beat me. If we > judge by >> profit from meteorite sales of found meteorites, there are many more >> higher on that list than I am. >> >> Maybe, if you judged success by most media coverage (TV, newspaper, > Radio, >> Magazines,internet, etc.) I would be at the top of that list. But I >> hardly think that is a good barometer for determining the "Most > Successful >> Meteorite Hunter." >> >> Success is our world is often judged by the amount of money you make. > So >> who has made the most money? But what about people that are not in > this >> for the bottom line only? Cottingham mentioned not willing to sacrifice >> family time to be gone from home too much. If his kids grow up > emotionally >> well balanced because he was in their lives more, but someone else > finds more >> meteorites but has a lousy home life, some people might argue who really >> was more of a "success?" >> >> It is easier to measure who did the best at one location. Let's all go >> to Holbrook for the weekend, and whomever finds the most in number wins > the >> title for the day. Or drop us off at Munonionalusta for a week, and we > can >> put the bounty on the scales 7 days later. Who found the biggest West? >> Or the most Wests? Or the most total weight of Wests? Who will find > the >> most at this new Arizona Strewnfield? >> >> I think it might be possible to single out who might have had the best >> year financially, in total weight, in total numbers etc in a given > year, but >> to stretch it out for more than a decade long period of time, that gets > a >> bit tough, and very subjective. >> >> Someone might be better or worse than their numbers indicate because of >> other factors in their life. Others might just get a little lucky. >> >> It is all so subjective. >> >> And to top it off, I don't know if anyone out there is hell bent on >> finding the most new meteorites, or the most total recovered weight, or > the >> biggest single meteorite of all time. Most of us do this because we > love >> it. >> We love the challenge that each day brings, that each new fall brings, > that >> each old strewnfield with new clues brings. >> >> I would guess there are people that want to find as many as they can. > Or >> to find the biggest they can. And I am sure there are people that want > to >> make as much money as possible. But as with so many things in life, it >> isn't so much beating everyone else, but beating mediocrity and being > the >> best >> one can be. >> >> If being a husband, a father, a grandfather, a teacher, a dealer, a >> scientists, etc. gets in the way of being a better "hunter" then we all > make >> those quality decisions at different times in our lives. >> >> And since this isn't like boxing, where one unquestionable champion > holds >> the title until someone takes it away from him, and since this isn't > like >> pro football with a Super Bowl game at the end of the playoffs, how do > you >> measure the current Champion? >> >> Maybe it would be better to look at this more like a "Hall of Fame" >> question where a lifetime of contribution is recognized on a persons >> individual >> accomplishments and contributions. >> >> Steve Arnold >> of "Meteorite Men" >> >> **************S T R E T C H your technology dollars with great laptop >> deals from Dell! >> > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081712x1201714210/aol?redir=http: >> %2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2 >> D5) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > **************S T R E T C H your technology dollars with great laptop > deals from Dell! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1223081712x1201714210/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2 > D5) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From almitt at kconline.com Thu Jul 16 19:38:30 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:38:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD eBay Auctions Ending In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <89ED3DBAC54D4C9D8B1B2C04D0895F94@StarmanPC> Greetings, I have three eBay auctions ending in about 17 hours and 3 days 17 hours. The first two are a Zag 297 gram (sort of) endpiece with lots of crust. Would make a nice collections specimen or a good cutter. A Seymchan slice 209 grams with good crystal to metal ratio. I also have a Lafayette specimen that was in my personal collection. This is a fairly large fragment (.03 gm) and one of the larger specimens offered in a while of this material. Very little material available for collectors. See all my auctions here: >> http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_ipgZ >> << All my best and thank you for looking! --AL Mitterling From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Thu Jul 16 20:35:12 2009 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:35:12 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ash Creek Slices Available Message-ID: <7409b23cf0f949cab08131a0655131fd@ucv1.vhostdns.com> The new 225g Ash Creek has been cut and several slices made http://outofabluesky.com/index.php?option=com_jportfolio&cat=4&project=46&Itemid=58 From 13g to a 38g endcut. There are also several micros for sale. From prairiecactus at rtcol.com Thu Jul 16 20:38:52 2009 From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 20:38:52 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astro Mike's Color Enhanced Meteor Picture Message-ID: <7D853032DD6E4B6D9C5220C5DCA82589@whitmerjbqtim1> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/original6.jpg?t=1247789030 http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/original7.jpg?t=1247789091 http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/original4.jpg?t=1247789153 http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/original5.jpg?t=1247789215 Here are some color enhanced versions of Astro Mike's Meteor Photo. Latent background pixels were colorized to bring them out. The patterns were in the original photo. With some imagination the dust motes look like big meteor chunks flying off the bolide and raining down to earth. Phil Whitmer From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 16 20:57:23 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:57:23 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson -One of Americas GreatMeteorite Hunters Message-ID: Hi, When Michael first mentioned Ivan "Skip" Wilson, my first thought was, "Here comes da judge, here comes da judge." I did a quick google search and came up with very little on the man. I will have to do more digging later. In the meantime it would be great if someone with more knowledge can place an entry in Wikipedia, or even direct links so we newbies can learn more on Mr. Wilson. Carl Michael Cottingham wrote: >Some of you know him, some of you have heard of him and many of the newer members of this list should know about him. Ivan Skip Wilson is one of the most successful meteorite hunters in the world... _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 From mikewren at gilanet.com Thu Jul 16 21:13:55 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:13:55 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? In-Reply-To: <2996B3A8C3434603AF86CB3E6C342FC2@StarmanPC> References: <2996B3A8C3434603AF86CB3E6C342FC2@StarmanPC> Message-ID: <833D18A2-45CE-4CFB-9543-DEBC1BA1CD98@gilanet.com> Hello, Actually, Nininger DID NOT personally find that many meteorites. His recoveries through his other efforts allowed him to recover thousands of pounds of meteorites, but he the man/individual-personally did not find that many. I have read ALL his books, many, many times. In fact, I usually take a copy of Find A Falling Star with me to read when I am in the field. Nininger is great for a lot of reasons and I hold him in the highest of all regards. However, if you look through the British Catalog of Meteorites, you will find very few meteorites that were actually found by him. I do not remember how many exactly (maybe 2). Nininger and meteorite recoveries are a different story. He recovered through the efforts of his teachings, lectures, and other people looking for him - tons of meteorites. One of the few meteorites that Nininger personally found was Puente- Ladron in Socorro County, New Mexico. Nininger's arch rival Lincoln LaPaz stated that Nininger transported the meteorite there. Lapaz hated Nininger, so much that he wrote many papers with out right lies about Nininger. Yes, Nininger recovered a lot of Plainview and Toluca. However, I am not sure if he personally found any?? Someone want to tally up the personal finds of Nininger-that would be great. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On Jul 16, 2009, at 3:13 PM, al mitt wrote: > Greetings List, > > Not sure where this idea that Harvey Nininger wasn't a meteorite > hunter came from but it is wrong. He was a meteorite hunter, he > chased falls, plotted areas they fell in and went to those areas to > search. He also hunted in areas that he was in. He did that while > hunting for scrap metal during world war 2. He was effective at > getting people to look for him. I would say that is using your head > so more specimens could be found and using people that were familiar > with the land to hunt those areas. When Norton County fell, Nininger > was standing on top of the meteorite when Lincoln LaPaz and his > friend arrived and looked down to see Nininger already there. Don't > tell me that hunters these days don't get local people to hunt and > go back to buy later. Sure they hunt themselves but getting others > to help expedites finds. > > One would have to define what a meteorite hunter is (as mentioned > already in this thread). Just because it doesn't fit your definition > doesn't mean that hunting in a specific way is wrong or excludes you > as a hunter. People making the claim that Nininger wasn't a hunter, > haven't read all his books and don't know the extreme efforts he > went to finding new specimens. He often went back to areas and > conducted hunts while also approaching people who might know > something about a find or fall. Plainview, Texas is one area that he > hunted extensively finding more specimens to collect and trade. He > went into Mexico chasing down leads which were pretty risky back then. > > One also has to remember the time and conditions in which Harvey > Nininger hunted. He hunted in the depression era but was still able > to persuade investors to buy into his hunts. Transportation was not > good back then. Lots of dirt roads and hazards along the way while > driving his model T. Patching tires in deep mud. Making it three or > four hundred miles was tough. Flying back then was expensive and not > real common. There were no interstate roads that you could jump in > your car and drive 700 miles a day easily. > > Metal detectors weren't as effective and bulky. People were very > cautious of strangers in their towns and on their ranches and farms. > Harvey mentioned that for every successful trip, there were dozens > of other trips that didn't pan out. He wasn't eager to mention the > trips that weren't successful. If he found or was able to have > others help him find over 222 new finds or falls and over a thousand > meteorite specimens, he certainly picked up a number of meteorite > specimens himself. Multiply 222 times a dozen or two (trips or leads > that weren't successful) and you have nearly 5,000 to 6,000 trips > and hunts. Divide by a forty year span of time and you have about > 125 trips or hunts a year! How many trips are people making these > days using modern transportation? Nininger would often and smartly > combine trips but that is still a lot of hunting in my book. > > Nininger used Farington's book on meteorites 1915 to hunt down old > strewnfields. I'll try to dig up some of his personal finds and post > them here when time permits. Saying Harvey Nininger wasn't hardly a > meteorite hunter shows a great deal of ignorance and such people > making claims should read some of his books he wrote to educate > themselves. Best! > > --AL Mitterling > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Thu Jul 16 21:21:22 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 18:21:22 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson -One of Americas GreatMeteorite Hunters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29133C80-ADEB-4DAA-9EEF-900E6A9AC30B@gilanet.com> Hello, If you Google-Roosevelt County Meteorites you get a lot more to work with- Best Wishes Michael On Jul 16, 2009, at 5:57 PM, Carl 's wrote: > > Hi, > > When Michael first mentioned Ivan "Skip" Wilson, my first thought > was, "Here comes da judge, here comes da judge." I did a quick > google search and came up with very little on the man. I will have > to do more digging later. In the meantime it would be great if > someone with more knowledge can place an entry in Wikipedia, or even > direct links so we newbies can learn more on Mr. Wilson. > > Carl > > > > Michael Cottingham wrote: >> Some of you know him, some of you have heard of him and many of the > newer members of this list should know about him. > Ivan Skip Wilson is one of the most successful meteorite hunters in > the world... > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Thu Jul 16 22:55:50 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 19:55:50 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Unprofessionalism In-Reply-To: <000001ca0686$d811a5e0$8834f1a0$@net> References: <4A5ED90D.1000303@meteoritesusa.com> <000001ca0686$d811a5e0$8834f1a0$@net> Message-ID: <4A5FE836.9080808@meteoritesusa.com> In regards to the loss of respect I am referring to, I would like to clarify something. I still respect all hunters, collectors, scientists and enthusiasts on this list just as I do on other lists I am a member of. I'm not above admitting that maybe I was a bit too harsh in that statement. The ones I am referring to simply lose some hero points because of the tirades. I very highly respect the "anyone" who puts in the hours or research, field work, and the compiling of the data it takes to be successful in this business, especially when they are successful. When there are personal attacks publicly on-list this effect all of us because they become a reflection on the meteorite community to new comers and the media. That's all I have to say on this... -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA Paul G. Spears wrote: > Well said, Eric. I was so impressed with the posts I read for the first two > months I was on the List. The last two weeks have completely erased my > respect for those who have conducted the most egotistical, immature and > unprofessional smear attacks against list members. If they cannot control > their egos and testosterone and have to fight, they should "take it > outside." I do not want my friends to think I am like that. Other forums > restrict such conduct, and so should the List. > Regards, > Paul > From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 00:44:07 2009 From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:44:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson Message-ID: <657544.53461.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Michael and List, ? Michael, you wrote in part, : " Some of you know him, some of you have heard of him and many of the newer members of this list should know about him." "Ivan Skip Wilson is one of the most successful meteorite hunters in the world." " He is a kind man and he shared his wealth of information with me. A remarkable human being who is always sharing stories, generous with his meteorite knowledge and gifted at finding lots of meteorites." ? ? I just want to add that I couldn't agree more! I first read of Skip in a small newsletter I used to get called "METEOR NEWS".? Obviously, it dealt mostly with meteors, but occasionally had meteorite and tektite related articles.? The April 1990 issue (Number 89) was almost entirely devoted to an article entitled " An Interview With Skip Wilson ". I was absolutely enthralled at reading his adventures. And two particular sentences were etched into my memory: ? ? "I have hunted mostly alone but have hunted some with local people and am always interested in hunting with anyone who is interested.? If any of the readers ever get in this area, look me up and I will go hunting." ? I never forgot about his standing invitation, and a little over 8 years later, I was lucky enough to meet with him as a part of one of the best hunting trips I've ever been on for sure!? ;-)? He was every bit as kind and helpful as you wrote. Although it didn't work out for us to actually HUNT together then, I consider myself very lucky in having the chance to visit and spend some very enjoyable time with Skip.? ? Sincerely, ? Robert Woolard From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 01:17:24 2009 From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (Robert Woolard) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 22:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? Message-ID: <879306.28374.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greg, ? You had written in part: ? ?" I don't know whether Bob Haag is the best hunter/collector, but I can tell you that he is the nicest guy you could want to know... " ? ???You got that right! Way back in 1986, I first saw Robert Haag on the David Letterman Show.? I was stunned to find out an "ordinary person" could actually buy and own a meteorite. I contacted him the very next day and ordered a few meteorites from him. He was out of stock on one of them? and so he sent me a major upgrade on a similar specimen ( a much larger and nicer pallasite slice, for the same price.) ???Then a bit later, when I found out he had actually hunted for and found some meteorites himself on a few trips, I was on the phone to him several times getting advice. I can see now that I was probably a bit of a pest, I must admit, but he never had anything but patience for me. ? I have talked with him on the phone and in person in Tucson many, many times now, and he has not changed in that regard. I was very happy that I had a chance to spend some time with him at West, and on a beer run to a liquor store together, I made sure he knew that HE was THE force behind me having had the thrills of finding my very own meteorites over about a half-dozen trips. Because of his help, my best friend and I have had the unbelievable luck of finding over 2,100 specimens totaling over 500 lbs on these few trips. Though there are definitely many others who have found more than me, I NEVER, NEVER would have thought that would have been possible when I was a young boy growing up in the cotton fields in NE Arkansas, and wishing that one day....???ONE day ....? I would find an actual REAL meteorite there in the ground.? And it all started with this "wildly enthusiastic kid" on the David Letterman show, who took the time to help a newbie. ? Sincerely, ? Robert Woolard From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 08:25:32 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 05:25:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite hunters Message-ID: <223471.45402.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Good morning list.I just got my first 2 week full paycheck.Life is good. I have had the chance to observe this most exellent thread on meteorite hunters,and I must say,very good.I have been collecting for 10 years now. There are alot of very special hunters out there. I never met skip wilson,but I know mike farmer and bob haag. For me these 2 are what it is all about to find these stones from space. I know bob has not done the hunting thing as much as mike has lately, but the passion is still there.I talk to him alot by phone. Mike to me in these days,is the best there is. He will drop what he is doing and be on a plane in a micro second. My hats off to them both.Keep finding those gems from space. And by the way mike,CONGRATS on that beautiful oriented 150 grammer you found. ?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Fri Jul 17 11:17:20 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:17:20 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hungry for HOW ? Message-ID: <001901ca06f1$ae4198e0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hiho. Just had to look in my enormous 2000/01-prices-compilation to sort out the howardite prices from then. Only for not having to re-write them again and because it might be interesting for the younger collectors.... Inflation adjusted gram-prices. Average (min. - max.) Chaves 623$/g (264 -971$/g) DaG 443 158$/g - wasn't sure then, whether HOW or polymict EUC, the latter it is. DaG 779 291$/g (183 - 293$) Dhofar 018 214$ (122 - 305$) - 122$/g for pieces >100g/305$/g for <10g. Great Sand Sea 010 762$/g (305 - 1220$) Kapoeta 950$/g (244 - 2440$) - mostly offered HOW - 10 dealers. Luotolax 732$/g SAH 99076 305$/g SAH 99314 305$/g And that was the choice. 8 years ago only. Nowadays? +/-15$/g... (so better let the privateers continue their work.) Cheers! Martin No, that is no AD. From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 17 12:28:51 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:28:51 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. Message-ID: Hi Martin, You sent this message under another thread but I've been thinking about this image ever since. I found the artist is Lucas Van Leyden and painted in the 1500's, but I'm wondering what is going on. Looks like a town or fort is being bombarded but the man in the foreground doesn't seem to notice. In fact he seem to be doing well except the two women are his daughters? The caption from wikipedia reads, Lot and his daughters, or is the title incorrect? What is this painting about? Can't be about swiping meteorites. :) Carl Martin Altmann wrote: >Be becalmed, if someone steals a meteorite, that will happen http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Leyden-Lot.png _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 From CMoore at asu.edu Fri Jul 17 12:44:56 2009 From: CMoore at asu.edu (Carleton Moore) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:44:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson References: <657544.53461.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC38F0@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu> All these comments are very interesting. What about C U shepard and Hugh Howard? Anyone heard of them?? ________________________________ From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com on behalf of Robert Woolard Sent: Thu 7/16/2009 9:44 PM To: mikewren at gilanet.com Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson Michael and List, Michael, you wrote in part, : " Some of you know him, some of you have heard of him and many of the newer members of this list should know about him." "Ivan Skip Wilson is one of the most successful meteorite hunters in the world." " He is a kind man and he shared his wealth of information with me. A remarkable human being who is always sharing stories, generous with his meteorite knowledge and gifted at finding lots of meteorites." I just want to add that I couldn't agree more! I first read of Skip in a small newsletter I used to get called "METEOR NEWS". Obviously, it dealt mostly with meteors, but occasionally had meteorite and tektite related articles. The April 1990 issue (Number 89) was almost entirely devoted to an article entitled " An Interview With Skip Wilson ". I was absolutely enthralled at reading his adventures. And two particular sentences were etched into my memory: "I have hunted mostly alone but have hunted some with local people and am always interested in hunting with anyone who is interested. If any of the readers ever get in this area, look me up and I will go hunting." I never forgot about his standing invitation, and a little over 8 years later, I was lucky enough to meet with him as a part of one of the best hunting trips I've ever been on for sure! ;-) He was every bit as kind and helpful as you wrote. Although it didn't work out for us to actually HUNT together then, I consider myself very lucky in having the chance to visit and spend some very enjoyable time with Skip. Sincerely, Robert Woolard ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Fri Jul 17 12:51:35 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:51:35 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson In-Reply-To: <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC38F0@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu> References: <657544.53461.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC38F0@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu> Message-ID: <635E6A9E-1EF6-458D-BCD2-86C7E66A924D@gilanet.com> I have heard of them (at least Shepard), I would love to learn more about both and if you want to share some stories or knowledge about them, that would be great. Michael Cottingham On Jul 17, 2009, at 9:44 AM, Carleton Moore wrote: > All these comments are very interesting. What about C U shepard and > Hugh Howard? Anyone heard of them?? > > ________________________________ > > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com on behalf of > Robert Woolard > Sent: Thu 7/16/2009 9:44 PM > To: mikewren at gilanet.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson > > > > > Michael and List, > > Michael, you wrote in part, : > > " Some of you know him, some of you have heard of him and > many of the newer members of this list should know about > him." > > "Ivan Skip Wilson is one of the most successful meteorite > hunters in the world." > > " He is a kind man and he shared his wealth of information with me. A > remarkable human being who is always sharing stories, > generous with his meteorite knowledge and gifted at finding > lots of meteorites." > > > I just want to add that I couldn't agree more! I first read of > Skip in a small newsletter I used to get called "METEOR NEWS". > Obviously, it dealt mostly with meteors, but occasionally had > meteorite and tektite related articles. The April 1990 issue > (Number 89) was almost entirely devoted to an article entitled " An > Interview With Skip Wilson ". I was absolutely enthralled at reading > his adventures. And two particular sentences were etched into my > memory: > > "I have hunted mostly alone but have hunted some with local > people and am always interested in hunting with anyone who is > interested. If any of the readers ever get in this area, look me up > and I will go hunting." > > I never forgot about his standing invitation, and a little over 8 > years later, I was lucky enough to meet with him as a part of one of > the best hunting trips I've ever been on for sure! ;-) He was > every bit as kind and helpful as you wrote. Although it didn't work > out for us to actually HUNT together then, I consider myself very > lucky in having the chance to visit and spend some very enjoyable > time with Skip. > > Sincerely, > Robert Woolard > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 12:56:59 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza Message-ID: <907947.9590.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl Esparza, proud IMCA member, sent to some other Arizona residents. IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly the people of the highest integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying on other people? Is there any action that can be taken on this matter. This shows how pitiful some of these people are, too lazy to do their own homework, and so deceitful that they will resort to pitiful spying on other list members rather than do their homework. This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not welcome. Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and stop trying to worm your way in. It takes work to find a meteorite, not scams. "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share with me off-List what kind of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I have been hunting the Benson area Fall and don't know what kind or color of cars to look for. I promise to share results if any. Thank you. Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax" From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jul 17 13:08:03 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:08:03 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: <907947.9590.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090717130803.WG98J.366522.imail@fed1rmwml33> Mike, I would first like to mention that I sent out this question to a few people in a private email simply asking what Mike drove. Luckily, I had already seen your SUV yesterday. I am quite the investigator. . My investigation took a lot more work than yours. You simply got a phone call. I have spent weeks looking and finally found it. Thanks Mike. PS Obviously I figured out the general area by myself or I would not have seen where you parked. And don't worry, I have a GPS to include data for the strewn field for the ones I find. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Michael Farmer wrote: > > Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl Esparza, proud IMCA member, sent to some other Arizona residents. > > > IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly the people of the highest integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying on other people? Is there any action that can be taken on this matter. > > > This shows how pitiful some of these people are, too lazy to do their own homework, and so deceitful that they will resort to pitiful spying on other list members rather than do their homework. > > This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not welcome. > > Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and stop trying to worm your way in. It takes work to find a meteorite, not scams. > > > "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share with me off-List what kind of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I have been hunting the Benson area Fall and don't know what kind or color of cars to look for. I promise to share results if any. Thank you. > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax" > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stm at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 17 13:05:18 2009 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:05:18 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <513BE5C7AF9F4B93A3BD983F09F2D090@Platinum2> "Lot and his daughters flee the burning city of Sodom (background). Now that their mother has been turned into a pillar of salt, the daughters consider it their duty to ensure that Lot has male descendants. Here they are seen feeding their father so much drink that he does not realize he is being seduced by his own daughters." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl 's" To: Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:28 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. Hi Martin, You sent this message under another thread but I've been thinking about this image ever since. I found the artist is Lucas Van Leyden and painted in the 1500's, but I'm wondering what is going on. Looks like a town or fort is being bombarded but the man in the foreground doesn't seem to notice. In fact he seem to be doing well except the two women are his daughters? The caption from wikipedia reads, Lot and his daughters, or is the title incorrect? What is this painting about? Can't be about swiping meteorites. :) Carl Martin Altmann wrote: >Be becalmed, if someone steals a meteorite, that will happen http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Leyden-Lot.png _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jul 17 14:17:12 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:17:12 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Great sounding new meteorite book on the way In-Reply-To: <907947.9590.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <907947.9590.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://www.amazon.com/Fallen-Sky-Intimate-History-Shooting/dp/1585427209/ Release date is July 30th, but a few copies seem to be available now (probably mostly review copies.) http://www.fetchbook.info/compare.do?search=9781585427208&startFrom=1 I just grabbed one on Ebay for 10 bucks. From mikewren at gilanet.com Fri Jul 17 13:23:52 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:23:52 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: <907947.9590.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <907947.9590.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <81966EBC-DD5E-4504-AAE8-08F09E3B0495@gilanet.com> Pretty weird. It was a matter of time before someone got sneaky and put two and two together. I have known pretty much for a week where you guys where at. However, out of respect to Jack's wishes I did not even get out of my truck. Claim jumping is not my game. It is a big area and there is room for all, but it would of been nice if you folks would of had a little more time to do the work that was needed. I believe with the influx of sneaky people, science will loose once again. Michael Cottingham On Jul 17, 2009, at 9:56 AM, Michael Farmer wrote: > > Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl Esparza, proud IMCA > member, sent to some other Arizona residents. > > > IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly the people of the > highest integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying on other people? > Is there any action that can be taken on this matter. > > > This shows how pitiful some of these people are, too lazy to do > their own homework, and so deceitful that they will resort to > pitiful spying on other list members rather than do their homework. > > This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not welcome. > > Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and stop trying to worm > your way in. It takes work to find a meteorite, not scams. > > > "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share with me off-List > what kind of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I have been hunting > the Benson area Fall and don't know what kind or color of cars to > look for. I promise to share results if any. Thank you. > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax" > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 13:25:12 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: <20090717130803.WG98J.366522.imail@fed1rmwml33> Message-ID: <280061.22216.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Since I left my car at home yesterday, you must have found my house:) By the way, after the rain last night I would request you wash my car when you see it again. Carl, your email says it all about what kind of person and meteorite hunter you are. Good luck out there, but should you find me, you would be on private propery, tresspassing, and subject to arrest as other list members know all about. Go for it. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 7/17/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > From: cdtucson at cox.net > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Michael Farmer" > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 11:08 AM > Mike, I would first like to mention > that I sent out this question to a few people in a private > email simply asking what Mike drove. Luckily, I had already > seen your SUV yesterday. I am quite the investigator. . My > investigation took a lot more work than yours. You simply > got a phone call. I have spent weeks looking and finally > found it. Thanks Mike. > PS Obviously I figured out the general area by myself or I > would not have seen where you parked. And don't worry, I > have a GPS to include data for the strewn field for the ones > I find. > > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > > > ---- Michael Farmer > wrote: > > > > Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl > Esparza, proud IMCA member, sent to some other Arizona > residents. > >? > > > > IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly the > people of the highest integrity he, he,he he, stooping to > spying on other people? Is there any action that can be > taken on this matter. > >? > > > > This shows how pitiful some of these people are, too > lazy to do their own homework, and so deceitful that they > will resort to pitiful spying on other list members rather > than do their homework. > > > > This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not welcome. > > > > > Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and stop > trying to worm your way in. It takes work to find a > meteorite, not scams. > > > >? > > "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share with > me off-List what kind of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I > have been hunting the Benson area Fall and don't know what > kind or color of cars to look for. I promise to share > results if any. Thank you. > > Carl Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > Meteoritemax" > >? > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From Impactika at aol.com Fri Jul 17 13:36:40 2009 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:36:40 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza Message-ID: No, Mike, The IMCA does not condone this type of behavior. IMCA members are expected to behave in a professional and ethical manner. Please go read our code of Ethics, on the IMCA website, _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) . It is Jack Schaeder's discovery, and Jack's wishes should be respected. But dreams of new meteorites will mislead people. Surely you know that. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 7/17/2009 10:57:13 AM Mountain Daylight Time, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl Esparza, proud IMCA member, sent to some other Arizona residents. IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly the people of the highest integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying on other people? Is there any action that can be taken on this matter. This shows how pitiful some of these people are, too lazy to do their own homework, and so deceitful that they will resort to pitiful spying on other list members rather than do their homework. This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not welcome. Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and stop trying to worm your way in. It takes work to find a meteorite, not scams. "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share with me off-List what kind of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I have been hunting the Benson area Fall and don't know what kind or color of cars to look for. I promise to share results if any. Thank you. Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax" **************Can love help you live longer? Find out now. (http://personals.aol.com/articles/2009/02/18/longer-lives-through-relationships/?ncid=emlweu slove00000001) From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 17 13:41:58 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:41:58 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin, please explain. Message-ID: I read a similar description on another engraving with 3 nudes. The dress on the figures, boats and ships look too modern and I thought Sodom and Gomorrah was in the middle of the desert,anyway. I'm not up on biblical history, but couldn't the daughters find any other women for their father? Oh well, let's see what's going on the list. Thanks. Carl Sean wrote: >"Lot and his daughters flee the burning city of Sodom (background). Now that their mother has been turned into a pillar of salt, the daughters consider it their duty to ensure that Lot has male descendants. Here they are seen feeding their father so much drink that he does not realize he is being seduced by his own daughters." _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 13:44:53 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <21952.41117.qm@web110609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thanks Anne I appreciate the clarification, as a non-IMCA member I am not familiar with the rules, but this goes against common decency and I am glad to see the highly respected IMCA will not tolerate spying as opposed to hard work. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Impactika at aol.com wrote: > From: Impactika at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > To: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 11:36 AM > No, Mike, > > The IMCA does not condone this type of behavior. IMCA > members are expected > to behave in a professional and ethical manner. Please go > read our code of > Ethics, on the IMCA website,? _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) . > > It is Jack Schaeder's discovery, and Jack's wishes should > be respected. > > But dreams of new meteorites will mislead people. > Surely you know that. > > Anne M. Black > _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) > _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ > (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) > > Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. > _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) > > > > > In a message dated 7/17/2009 10:57:13 AM Mountain Daylight > Time, > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > writes: > Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl Esparza, > proud IMCA member, > sent to some other Arizona residents. > > > IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly the people > of the highest > integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying on other people? > Is there any > action that can be taken on this matter. > > > This shows how pitiful some of these people are, too lazy > to do their own > homework, and so deceitful that they will resort to pitiful > spying on other > list members rather than do their homework. > > This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not welcome. > > Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and stop > trying to worm your > way in. It takes work to find a meteorite, not scams. > > > "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share with me > off-List what kind > of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I have been hunting > the Benson area > Fall and don't know what kind or color of cars to look for. > I promise to share > results if any. Thank you. > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax" > **************Can love help you live longer? Find out now. > > (http://personals.aol.com/articles/2009/02/18/longer-lives-through-relationships/?ncid=emlweu > slove00000001) > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 13:55:34 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 10:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Blackout on AZ fall information Message-ID: <381214.17718.qm@web110616.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Sorry to do this but we have discussed the issue and due to underhanded tactics and harassment, we will no longer post photos, or any information to the list about the new AZ fall. I am sorry but because of people like Carl and these schemes there is no choice but to deprive everyone else of what we are doing. I wanted to share, to make everyone a part of this fall in simply showing photos, but that was a bad idea. Dr. Schrader will release any information he decides to at a later date. Please do not contact him or the rest of us regarding this fall. Michael Farmer From almitt at kconline.com Fri Jul 17 14:05:16 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:05:16 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson In-Reply-To: <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC38F0@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu> References: <657544.53461.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC38F0@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu> Message-ID: Greetings Dr. Moore and all, I've heard of C.U. Shepard after having visited the ASU Collection. Good candidates for sure. --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carleton Moore" To: "Robert Woolard" ; Cc: Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson > All these comments are very interesting. What about C U shepard and Hugh > Howard? Anyone heard of them?? > > ________________________________ > > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com on behalf of Robert > Woolard > Sent: Thu 7/16/2009 9:44 PM > To: mikewren at gilanet.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson > > > > > Michael and List, > > Michael, you wrote in part, : > > " Some of you know him, some of you have heard of him and > many of the newer members of this list should know about > him." > > "Ivan Skip Wilson is one of the most successful meteorite > hunters in the world." > > " He is a kind man and he shared his wealth of information with me. A > remarkable human being who is always sharing stories, > generous with his meteorite knowledge and gifted at finding > lots of meteorites." > > > I just want to add that I couldn't agree more! I first read of Skip in > a small newsletter I used to get called "METEOR NEWS". Obviously, it > dealt mostly with meteors, but occasionally had meteorite and tektite > related articles. The April 1990 issue (Number 89) was almost entirely > devoted to an article entitled " An Interview With Skip Wilson ". I was > absolutely enthralled at reading his adventures. And two particular > sentences were etched into my memory: > > "I have hunted mostly alone but have hunted some with local people and > am always interested in hunting with anyone who is interested. If any of > the readers ever get in this area, look me up and I will go hunting." > > I never forgot about his standing invitation, and a little over 8 years > later, I was lucky enough to meet with him as a part of one of the best > hunting trips I've ever been on for sure! ;-) He was every bit as kind > and helpful as you wrote. Although it didn't work out for us to actually > HUNT together then, I consider myself very lucky in having the chance to > visit and spend some very enjoyable time with Skip. > > Sincerely, > Robert Woolard > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jul 17 14:12:23 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:12:23 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson In-Reply-To: References: <657544.53461.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC38F0@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu> Message-ID: No offense to Skip Wilson, but he was merely following in the footsteps of another famous Meteorite-Hunting Wilson with a nickname - http://dailymotion.virgilio.it/video/x9dsng_the-flip-wilson-show-geraldine-bill_shortfilms?from=rss :) On 7/17/09, al mitt wrote: > Greetings Dr. Moore and all, > > I've heard of C.U. Shepard after having visited the ASU Collection. Good > candidates for sure. > > --AL Mitterling > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carleton Moore" > To: "Robert Woolard" ; > Cc: > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:44 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson > > >> All these comments are very interesting. What about C U shepard and Hugh >> Howard? Anyone heard of them?? >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com on behalf of Robert >> Woolard >> Sent: Thu 7/16/2009 9:44 PM >> To: mikewren at gilanet.com >> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson >> >> >> >> >> Michael and List, >> >> Michael, you wrote in part, : >> >> " Some of you know him, some of you have heard of him and >> many of the newer members of this list should know about >> him." >> >> "Ivan Skip Wilson is one of the most successful meteorite >> hunters in the world." >> >> " He is a kind man and he shared his wealth of information with me. A >> remarkable human being who is always sharing stories, >> generous with his meteorite knowledge and gifted at finding >> lots of meteorites." >> >> >> I just want to add that I couldn't agree more! I first read of Skip in >> a small newsletter I used to get called "METEOR NEWS". Obviously, it >> dealt mostly with meteors, but occasionally had meteorite and tektite >> related articles. The April 1990 issue (Number 89) was almost entirely >> devoted to an article entitled " An Interview With Skip Wilson ". I was >> absolutely enthralled at reading his adventures. And two particular >> sentences were etched into my memory: >> >> "I have hunted mostly alone but have hunted some with local people and >> am always interested in hunting with anyone who is interested. If any of >> the readers ever get in this area, look me up and I will go hunting." >> >> I never forgot about his standing invitation, and a little over 8 years >> later, I was lucky enough to meet with him as a part of one of the best >> hunting trips I've ever been on for sure! ;-) He was every bit as kind >> and helpful as you wrote. Although it didn't work out for us to actually >> HUNT together then, I consider myself very lucky in having the chance to >> visit and spend some very enjoyable time with Skip. >> >> Sincerely, >> Robert Woolard >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Fri Jul 17 14:14:21 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:14:21 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. In-Reply-To: <513BE5C7AF9F4B93A3BD983F09F2D090@Platinum2> References: <513BE5C7AF9F4B93A3BD983F09F2D090@Platinum2> Message-ID: <001f01ca070a$6a34e800$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Exactely Sean! ...and it shows a fine fragmenting fireball :-) -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Sean T. Murray Gesendet: Freitag, 17. Juli 2009 19:05 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. "Lot and his daughters flee the burning city of Sodom (background). Now that their mother has been turned into a pillar of salt, the daughters consider it their duty to ensure that Lot has male descendants. Here they are seen feeding their father so much drink that he does not realize he is being seduced by his own daughters." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl 's" To: Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:28 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. Hi Martin, You sent this message under another thread but I've been thinking about this image ever since. I found the artist is Lucas Van Leyden and painted in the 1500's, but I'm wondering what is going on. Looks like a town or fort is being bombarded but the man in the foreground doesn't seem to notice. In fact he seem to be doing well except the two women are his daughters? The caption from wikipedia reads, Lot and his daughters, or is the title incorrect? What is this painting about? Can't be about swiping meteorites. :) Carl Martin Altmann wrote: >Be becalmed, if someone steals a meteorite, that will happen http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Leyden-Lot.png _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutori al_QuickAdd_062009 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stanleygregr at hotmail.com Fri Jul 17 14:24:56 2009 From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:24:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson In-Reply-To: References: <657544.53461.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <566F01D04586434EA022DBB173E34A5504EC38F0@EX03.asurite.ad.asu.edu> Message-ID: Now that'S CLASSIC stuff Greg S ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:12:23 -0400 > From: meteoritemike at gmail.com > To: almitt at kconline.com > CC: CMoore at asu.edu; meteoritefinder at yahoo.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson > > No offense to Skip Wilson, but he was merely following in the > footsteps of another famous Meteorite-Hunting Wilson with a nickname - > > http://dailymotion.virgilio.it/video/x9dsng_the-flip-wilson-show-geraldine-bill_shortfilms?from=rss > > :) > > > > > On 7/17/09, al mitt wrote: >> Greetings Dr. Moore and all, >> >> I've heard of C.U. Shepard after having visited the ASU Collection. Good >> candidates for sure. >> >> --AL Mitterling >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Carleton Moore" >> To: "Robert Woolard" ; >> Cc: >> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 12:44 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson >> >> >>> All these comments are very interesting. What about C U shepard and Hugh >>> Howard? Anyone heard of them?? >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com on behalf of Robert >>> Woolard >>> Sent: Thu 7/16/2009 9:44 PM >>> To: mikewren at gilanet.com >>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ivan "Skip" Wilson >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Michael and List, >>> >>> Michael, you wrote in part, : >>> >>> " Some of you know him, some of you have heard of him and >>> many of the newer members of this list should know about >>> him." >>> >>> "Ivan Skip Wilson is one of the most successful meteorite >>> hunters in the world." >>> >>> " He is a kind man and he shared his wealth of information with me. A >>> remarkable human being who is always sharing stories, >>> generous with his meteorite knowledge and gifted at finding >>> lots of meteorites." >>> >>> >>> I just want to add that I couldn't agree more! I first read of Skip in >>> a small newsletter I used to get called "METEOR NEWS". Obviously, it >>> dealt mostly with meteors, but occasionally had meteorite and tektite >>> related articles. The April 1990 issue (Number 89) was almost entirely >>> devoted to an article entitled " An Interview With Skip Wilson ". I was >>> absolutely enthralled at reading his adventures. And two particular >>> sentences were etched into my memory: >>> >>> "I have hunted mostly alone but have hunted some with local people and >>> am always interested in hunting with anyone who is interested. If any of >>> the readers ever get in this area, look me up and I will go hunting." >>> >>> I never forgot about his standing invitation, and a little over 8 years >>> later, I was lucky enough to meet with him as a part of one of the best >>> hunting trips I've ever been on for sure! ;-) He was every bit as kind >>> and helpful as you wrote. Although it didn't work out for us to actually >>> HUNT together then, I consider myself very lucky in having the chance to >>> visit and spend some very enjoyable time with Skip. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Robert Woolard >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jul 17 14:26:49 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 11:26:49 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090717142649.75PTL.367900.imail@fed1rmwml33> Anne, It is hard to believe that you would put this on the list. Respectfully , this is not Jack's find. Sure Jack can claim ownership of his finds and nobody is going to take them away from him but give us all a break here. This is a fall that was observed by dozens of people and there are dozens of us out looking for evidence of it. I don't think this hit Jack on the head. I think he also had to figure this out. Why is he any better than the rest of us???? I simply asked what Mike drives as verification but obviously I had already figured out the general area. Cat Mountain was also this big secret that I had to do a lot of work to find out where it was. I then shared this info with others and it resulted in the discovery of Snyder Hill while they were looking. This is all good and if you don't agree I am sorry but How can you say that this is Jack's find???? That is ridiculous! I did not post the location but I did ask Mike if I could help earlier and he rejected me. This would have made this location confidential. Now I'm not so sure? And Jack never personally even bothered to respond to my list posts and requests to help. As you know I offered to rescue these critters before they drown in the rains. They said no. I don't know what material is left to be found but hopefully now more will be found before they do drown. Again this is all good. PS what is your call on the leak of a private email your Honor? -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Impactika at aol.com wrote: > No, Mike, > > The IMCA does not condone this type of behavior. IMCA members are expected > to behave in a professional and ethical manner. Please go read our code of > Ethics, on the IMCA website, _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) . > > It is Jack Schaeder's discovery, and Jack's wishes should be respected. > > But dreams of new meteorites will mislead people. > Surely you know that. > > Anne M. Black > _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) > _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) > Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. > _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) > > > > > In a message dated 7/17/2009 10:57:13 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: > Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl Esparza, proud IMCA member, > sent to some other Arizona residents. > > > IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly the people of the highest > integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying on other people? Is there any > action that can be taken on this matter. > > > This shows how pitiful some of these people are, too lazy to do their own > homework, and so deceitful that they will resort to pitiful spying on other > list members rather than do their homework. > > This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not welcome. > > Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and stop trying to worm your > way in. It takes work to find a meteorite, not scams. > > > "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share with me off-List what kind > of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I have been hunting the Benson area > Fall and don't know what kind or color of cars to look for. I promise to share > results if any. Thank you. > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax" > **************Can love help you live longer? Find out now. > (http://personals.aol.com/articles/2009/02/18/longer-lives-through-relationships/?ncid=emlweu > slove00000001) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jul 17 14:52:41 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:52:41 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza Message-ID: Carl, Anne and Mike, I am a bit bewildered about this as well. If Carl had asked what car Farmer drove because he wanted to slit his car tires, that would be one thing. But I don't think that is the case here. When I was at West hunting, and finding lots of rocks, would I ever think someone was doing something unethical if someone asked what car I was driving or where I was parked and hunting? No. Would I want them to know? Not always. So sometimes I would hide my car, or take someone else's to a hunting spot. If someone found my car, would I be mad at them? No. Would I file an ethics complaint with the IMCA? No. In fact, one afternoon I returned from a field near where we had pulled a lot of West stones out, only to see Farmer standing by my car waiting. Others around said he was waiting there for over a half hour to talk with me. Did he do anything unethical by doing that? I don't think so. Did that make me want to share all my strewnfield data with Mike even though he was almost crying on the this list begging for me to share it? No, his attitude made me want to keep my info even more secret. I find it flattering that Mike finally comes around to my way of thinking as he gains more experience, as he has in this case. Mike calls this a "Blood sport" but turns around and cries "foul" when someone wants to know what car he is driving? Interesting. (This is where I would normally insert a humorous insult towards Mike, but I want the record to show that I have refrained from doing so.) Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" In a message dated 7/17/2009 1:27:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, cdtucson at cox.net writes: Anne, It is hard to believe that you would put this on the list. Respectfully , this is not Jack's find. Sure Jack can claim ownership of his finds and nobody is going to take them away from him but give us all a break here. This is a fall that was observed by dozens of people and there are dozens of us out looking for evidence of it. I don't think this hit Jack on the head. I think he also had to figure this out. Why is he any better than the rest of us???? I simply asked what Mike drives as verification but obviously I had already figured out the general area. Cat Mountain was also this big secret that I had to do a lot of work to find out where it was. I then shared this info with others and it resulted in the discovery of Snyder Hill while they were looking. This is all good and if you don't agree I am sorry but How can you say that this is Jack's find???? That is ridiculous! I did not post the location but I did ask Mike if I could help earlier and he rejected me. This would have made this location confidential. Now I'm not so sure? And Jack never personally even bothered to respond to my list posts and requests to help. As you know I offered to rescue these critters before they drown in the rains. They said no. I don't know what material is left to be found but hopefully now more will be found before they do drown. Again this is all good. PS what is your call on the leak of a private email your Honor? -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823307x1201398715/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jul 17 15:02:08 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:02:08 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: <1947715406.2463281247855804006.JavaMail.root@sz0101a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20090717150208.PE549.368448.imail@fed1rmwml33> WOW, I will take my chances with Anne and IMCA. Unlike yourself, Anne is one of the honorable list members. She knows me well enough to know that I did not intentionally violate any rules. We all are entitled to an opinion and you and I seem to disagree often. I don't know why this is on list though. Here you go again mud slinging. As I recall it was you that acused me of misrepresenting Carancas not the other way around. I simply pointed out that those nice folks in Peru invited our team to lunch while you say they threatened your life. Well Mike we all write our own epitaph and yours is well known. This may be a good episode for that wonderful show, "Meteorite Men"? OUCH ! Sorry I could not resist. . Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- meteoritehunter at comcast.net wrote: > > > WOW > > > > Can you say EX-IMCA member. > > > > Carl, you were rejected because of things like calling me a "psycho" and worse names. > > The list archives are full of bad things you have said about me. Do you honestly think? I would hunt with you after the things you have said about me regarding Carancas? > > Man, my day is getting brighter from the sheer idiocy of this. > > Michael Farmer > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: cdtucson at cox.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, Impactika at aol.com, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 11:26:49 AM GMT -07:00 U.S. Mountain Time (Arizona) > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > > Anne, > It is hard to believe that you would put this on the list. > Respectfully , this is not Jack's find. Sure Jack can claim ownership of his finds and nobody is going to take them away from him but give us all a break here. This is a fall that was observed by dozens of people and there are dozens of us out looking for evidence of it. I don't think this hit Jack on the head. I think he also had to figure this out. Why is he any better than the rest of us???? I simply asked what Mike drives as verification but obviously I had already figured out the general area. Cat Mountain was also this big secret that I had to do a lot of work to find out where it was. I then shared this info with others and it resulted in the discovery of Snyder Hill while they were looking. This is all good and if you don't agree I am sorry but How can you say ?that this is Jack's find???? That is ridiculous! > I did not post the location but I did ask Mike if I could help earlier and he rejected me. This would have made this location confidential. Now I'm not so sure? And Jack never personally even bothered to respond to my list posts and requests to help. As you know I offered to rescue these critters before they drown in the rains. They said no. > I don't know what material is left to be found but hopefully now more will be found before they do drown. Again this is all good. > PS what is your call on the leak of a private email your Honor? ? > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > > > ---- Impactika at aol.com wrote: > > No, Mike, > > > > The IMCA does not condone this type of behavior. IMCA members are expected > > to behave in a professional and ethical manner. Please go read our code of > > Ethics, on the IMCA website, ?_www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) . > > ? > > It is Jack Schaeder's discovery, and Jack's wishes should be respected. > > ? > > But dreams of new meteorites will mislead people. > > Surely you know that. > > > > Anne M. Black > > _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) > > _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) > > Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. > > _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 7/17/2009 10:57:13 AM Mountain Daylight Time, > > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: > > Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl Esparza, proud IMCA member, > > sent to some other Arizona residents. > > > > > > IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly the people of the highest > > integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying on other people? Is there any > > action that can be taken on this matter. > > > > > > This shows how pitiful some of these people are, too lazy to do their own > > homework, and so deceitful that they will resort to pitiful spying on other > > list members rather than do their homework. > > > > This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not welcome. > > > > Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and stop trying to worm your > > way in. It takes work to find a meteorite, not scams. > > > > > > "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share with me off-List what kind > > of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I have been hunting the Benson area > > Fall and don't know what kind or color of cars to look for. I promise to share > > results if any. Thank you. > > Carl Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > Meteoritemax" > > **************Can love help you live longer? Find out now. > > (http://personals.aol.com/articles/2009/02/18/longer-lives-through-relationships/?ncid=emlweu > > slove00000001) > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jul 17 15:07:17 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:07:17 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo 11 Moon Rocks Photo Message-ID: <4A60CBE5.2020708@meteoritesusa.com> Hi List, Just ran across this article and photo... Everyone loves photos of moon rocks right?! Moon Rocks Photo http://news-info.wustl.edu/pub/libs/images/usr/8422_h.jpg Article: Apollo 11 moon rocks still crucial 40 years later, say WUSTL researchers http://news-info.wustl.edu/news/page/normal/14375.html What's the little round black sphere in the upper left of the photo? Is that some sort of meteoritic spheroid? -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From stanleygregr at hotmail.com Fri Jul 17 15:07:56 2009 From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:07:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: <20090717150208.PE549.368448.imail@fed1rmwml33> References: <1947715406.2463281247855804006.JavaMail.root@sz0101a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <20090717150208.PE549.368448.imail@fed1rmwml33> Message-ID: All: I'm relatively new at this and I was wondering. Why is there so much difference between this fall and the West, TX fall? Thanks, Greg S ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:02:08 -0400 > From: cdtucson at cox.net > To: meteoritehunter at comcast.net > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Impactika at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > > WOW, > I will take my chances with Anne and IMCA. Unlike yourself, Anne is one of the honorable list members. She knows me well enough to know that I did not intentionally violate any rules. We all are entitled to an opinion and you and I seem to disagree often. I don't know why this is on list though. Here you go again mud slinging. As I recall it was you that acused me of misrepresenting Carancas not the other way around. I simply pointed out that those nice folks in Peru invited our team to lunch while you say they threatened your life. Well Mike we all write our own epitaph and yours is well known. This may be a good episode for that wonderful show, "Meteorite Men"? OUCH ! Sorry I could not resist. . > Carl -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > > > ---- meteoritehunter at comcast.net wrote: >> >> >> WOW >> >> >> >> Can you say EX-IMCA member. >> >> >> >> Carl, you were rejected because of things like calling me a "psycho" and worse names. >> >> The list archives are full of bad things you have said about me. Do you honestly think I would hunt with you after the things you have said about me regarding Carancas? >> >> Man, my day is getting brighter from the sheer idiocy of this. >> >> Michael Farmer >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: cdtucson at cox.net >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, Impactika at aol.com, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com >> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 11:26:49 AM GMT -07:00 U.S. Mountain Time (Arizona) >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza >> >> Anne, >> It is hard to believe that you would put this on the list. >> Respectfully , this is not Jack's find. Sure Jack can claim ownership of his finds and nobody is going to take them away from him but give us all a break here. This is a fall that was observed by dozens of people and there are dozens of us out looking for evidence of it. I don't think this hit Jack on the head. I think he also had to figure this out. Why is he any better than the rest of us???? I simply asked what Mike drives as verification but obviously I had already figured out the general area. Cat Mountain was also this big secret that I had to do a lot of work to find out where it was. I then shared this info with others and it resulted in the discovery of Snyder Hill while they were looking. This is all good and if you don't agree I am sorry but How can you say that this is Jack's find???? That is ridiculous! >> I did not post the location but I did ask Mike if I could help earlier and he rejected me. This would have made this location confidential. Now I'm not so sure? And Jack never personally even bothered to respond to my list posts and requests to help. As you know I offered to rescue these critters before they drown in the rains. They said no. >> I don't know what material is left to be found but hopefully now more will be found before they do drown. Again this is all good. >> PS what is your call on the leak of a private email your Honor? >> -- >> Carl or Debbie Esparza >> IMCA 5829 >> Meteoritemax >> >> >> ---- Impactika at aol.com wrote: >>> No, Mike, >>> >>> The IMCA does not condone this type of behavior. IMCA members are expected >>> to behave in a professional and ethical manner. Please go read our code of >>> Ethics, on the IMCA website, _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) . >>> >>> It is Jack Schaeder's discovery, and Jack's wishes should be respected. >>> >>> But dreams of new meteorites will mislead people. >>> Surely you know that. >>> >>> Anne M. Black >>> _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) >>> _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) >>> Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. >>> _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 7/17/2009 10:57:13 AM Mountain Daylight Time, >>> meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: >>> Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl Esparza, proud IMCA member, >>> sent to some other Arizona residents. >>> >>> >>> IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly the people of the highest >>> integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying on other people? Is there any >>> action that can be taken on this matter. >>> >>> >>> This shows how pitiful some of these people are, too lazy to do their own >>> homework, and so deceitful that they will resort to pitiful spying on other >>> list members rather than do their homework. >>> >>> This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not welcome. >>> >>> Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and stop trying to worm your >>> way in. It takes work to find a meteorite, not scams. >>> >>> >>> "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share with me off-List what kind >>> of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I have been hunting the Benson area >>> Fall and don't know what kind or color of cars to look for. I promise to share >>> results if any. Thank you. >>> Carl Esparza >>> IMCA 5829 >>> Meteoritemax" >>> **************Can love help you live longer? Find out now. >>> (http://personals.aol.com/articles/2009/02/18/longer-lives-through-relationships/?ncid=emlweu >>> slove00000001) >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 From anitawestlake at att.net Fri Jul 17 15:05:24 2009 From: anitawestlake at att.net (Anita Westlake) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:05:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Okay, how do I go about angering the aliens... In-Reply-To: References: <4A5ED90D.1000303@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <344939.57100.qm@web83813.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I'd love to know how to piss off the aliens. I'd be on my roof with a catcher's mit! Anita ----- Original Message ---- From: Darren Garrison To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 12:28:10 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Okay, how do I go about angering the aliens... http://www.portalino.it/nuke/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=38150 The Belgrade home of Radivoje Lajic has been hit by meteorites five times since last November. He has concluded that he's being harassed by extraterrestrials. He said: "I am obviously being targeted by extraterrestrials. I don't know what I have done to annoy them but there is no other explanation that makes sense. The chance of being hit by a meteorite is so small that getting hit five times has to be deliberate." The first meteorite fell on his house in November last year and since then a further four have smashed into his home. The strikes always happen when it is raining heavily, never when there are clear skies. He said: "I did not know what the strange-looking stones were at first but I have since had them all confirmed as meteorites by experts at Belgrade University. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 15:13:13 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <638892.9778.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Steve There are a few differences in these situations. 1. West was a free for all, I merely drove a mile down the road and found 5 or 6 cars and lots of hunters sitting beside the road, not exactly James Bond level work (I know them all) so I stopped. I was not out looking for you. And there were about 50 hunters in the strewnfield at that time, all we were doing was expanding the known area. 2. I was not begging people to give your vehicle information so I could spy on you. 3. This is not a free for all strewnfield yet, and Carl in that email was making offers, that if those he asked gave him my car data, he would make it worth their information. 4. Carl is acting like the searching for my vehicle is meteorite hunting as opposed to taking eyewitness reports, driving all over southern Arizona, taking aziumuths with compasses, and triangulating this fall, which is what Jack did. Homework paid off, he did not stoop to merely looking for the hunters. Steve, I wanted your data on your West stones more for total known weight and number of stones found more than coordinates. I knew where you were the whole time, and respected your location and me or people with me never hunted where you were. There is some respect involved actually. If hunters did their homework and showed up in the strewnfield, that is one thing, but to resort to spying on me, that is pitiful, like I said. I guess I have to watch for cars waiting at my gate from now on. Taking the shortcut is the way of a lazy person. Steve, there are differences in these situations. thanks by the way on your congrats for the stone I found, I sent a reply but with the wrong email so it did not go through. I feel that am IMCA member is acting in a way that is wrong, and Anne seems to agree. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 7/17/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > To: cdtucson at cox.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, Impactika at aol.com, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 12:52 PM > Carl, Anne and Mike, > > I am a bit? bewildered about this as well. > > If Carl had asked what car Farmer drove? because he > wanted to slit his car > tires, that would be one thing.? But? I don't > think that is the case here.? > > When I was at West hunting,? and finding lots of > rocks, would I ever think > someone was doing something? unethical if someone > asked what car I was > driving or where I was parked and? hunting?? > No.? Would I want them to know?? Not > always.? So? sometimes I would hide my car, or > take someone else's to a > hunting? spot. > > If someone found my car, would I be mad at them?? No. > Would I? file an > ethics complaint with the IMCA?? No. > > In fact, one? afternoon I returned from a field near > where we had pulled a > lot of West? stones out, only to see Farmer standing > by my car waiting.? > Others around? said he was waiting there for over a > half hour to talk with me.? > Did? he do anything unethical by doing that?? I > don't think so. > > Did that? make me want to share all my strewnfield > data with Mike even > though he was? almost crying on the this list begging > for me to share it????No, > his? attitude made me want to keep my info even more > secret. > > I find it? flattering that Mike finally comes around > to my way of thinking > as he gains more? experience, as he has in this case. > > > Mike calls this a "Blood sport" but? turns around and > cries "foul" when > someone wants to know what car he is? > driving????Interesting. > > (This is where I would normally insert? a humorous > insult towards Mike, but > I want the record to show that I have? refrained from > doing so.) > > Steve Arnold > of "Meteorite? Men" > > > > > In a message dated 7/17/2009 1:27:52 P.M. Central? > Daylight Time, > cdtucson at cox.net > writes: > Anne, > It is hard to believe that? you would put this on the > list. > Respectfully , this is not Jack's find. Sure? Jack can > claim ownership of > his finds and nobody is going to take them away from? > him but give us all a > break here. This is a fall that was observed by dozens > of? people and there > are dozens of us out looking for evidence of it. I don't > think? this hit Jack > on the head. I think he also had to figure this out. Why is > he any? better > than the rest of us???? I simply asked what Mike drives as > verification? but > obviously I had already figured out the general area. Cat > Mountain was also > this big secret that I had to do a lot of work to find out > where it was. I > then? shared this info with others and it resulted in > the discovery of > Snyder Hill? while they were looking. This is all good > and if you don't agree I > am sorry but? How can you say? that this is > Jack's find???? That is > ridiculous! > I did? not post the location but I did ask Mike if I > could help earlier and > he rejected? me. This would have made this location > confidential. Now I'm > not so sure? And? Jack never personally even bothered > to respond to my list > posts and requests to? help. As you know I offered to > rescue these critters > before they drown in the? rains. They said no. > I don't know what material is left to be found but? > hopefully now more will > be found before they do drown. Again this is all? > good. > PS what is your call on the leak of a private email your > Honor???? > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax? > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See > yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823307x1201398715/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JulystepsfooterNO62) > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 15:18:07 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:18:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: <20090717150208.PE549.368448.imail@fed1rmwml33> Message-ID: <384068.87062.qm@web110608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Carl, this is out of control. you were never in Peru for Carancas fall, please admit that to the list. Bob Haag can prove me right, as I spoke to him and he told me all about it. Did you go to Carancas with Bob? NO, so please stop telling us all about what went on there as you really have no clue actually. Thanks I am not mud-slinging, I am showing what you are doing and it is wrong. You are not welcome in my room at the Tucson show. You just insulted Anne minutes ago, now you try to take it back. Just stop. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 7/17/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > From: cdtucson at cox.net > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > To: meteoritehunter at comcast.net > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, Impactika at aol.com, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 1:02 PM > WOW, > I will take my chances with Anne and IMCA. Unlike yourself, > Anne is one of the honorable list members. She knows me well > enough to know that I did not intentionally violate any > rules. We all are entitled to an opinion and you and I seem > to disagree often. I don't know why this is on list though. > Here you go again mud slinging. As I recall it was you that > acused me of misrepresenting Carancas not the other way > around. I simply pointed out that those nice folks in Peru > invited our team to lunch while you say they threatened your > life. Well Mike we all write our own epitaph and yours is > well known. This may be a good episode for that wonderful > show, "Meteorite Men"? OUCH ! Sorry I could not resist. . > Carl -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > > > ---- meteoritehunter at comcast.net > wrote: > > > > > > WOW > > > > > > > > Can you say EX-IMCA member. > > > > > > > > Carl, you were rejected because of things like calling > me a "psycho" and worse names. > > > > The list archives are full of bad things you have said > about me. Do you honestly think? I would hunt with you > after the things you have said about me regarding Carancas? > > > > > Man, my day is getting brighter from the sheer idiocy > of this. > > > > Michael Farmer > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: cdtucson at cox.net > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, > Impactika at aol.com, > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > > > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 11:26:49 AM GMT -07:00 > U.S. Mountain Time (Arizona) > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a > meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > > > > Anne, > > It is hard to believe that you would put this on the > list. > > Respectfully , this is not Jack's find. Sure Jack can > claim ownership of his finds and nobody is going to take > them away from him but give us all a break here. This is a > fall that was observed by dozens of people and there are > dozens of us out looking for evidence of it. I don't think > this hit Jack on the head. I think he also had to figure > this out. Why is he any better than the rest of us???? I > simply asked what Mike drives as verification but obviously > I had already figured out the general area. Cat Mountain was > also this big secret that I had to do a lot of work to find > out where it was. I then shared this info with others and it > resulted in the discovery of Snyder Hill while they were > looking. This is all good and if you don't agree I am sorry > but How can you say ?that this is Jack's find???? That is > ridiculous! > > I did not post the location but I did ask Mike if I > could help earlier and he rejected me. This would have made > this location confidential. Now I'm not so sure? And Jack > never personally even bothered to respond to my list posts > and requests to help. As you know I offered to rescue these > critters before they drown in the rains. They said no. > > I don't know what material is left to be found but > hopefully now more will be found before they do drown. Again > this is all good. > > PS what is your call on the leak of a private email > your Honor? ? > > -- > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > Meteoritemax > > > > > > ---- Impactika at aol.com > wrote: > > > No, Mike, > > > > > > The IMCA does not condone this type of behavior. > IMCA members are expected > > > to behave in a professional and ethical manner. > Please go read our code of > > > Ethics, on the IMCA website, ?_www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) . > > > ? > > > It is Jack Schaeder's discovery, and Jack's > wishes should be respected. > > > ? > > > But dreams of new meteorites will mislead people. > > > > Surely you know that. > > > > > > Anne M. Black > > > _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) > > > _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ > (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) > > > > Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. > > > _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 7/17/2009 10:57:13 AM Mountain > Daylight Time, > > > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > writes: > > > Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl > Esparza, proud IMCA member, > > > sent to some other Arizona residents. > > > > > > > > > IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly > the people of the highest > > > integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying on > other people? Is there any > > > action that can be taken on this matter. > > > > > > > > > This shows how pitiful some of these people are, > too lazy to do their own > > > homework, and so deceitful that they will resort > to pitiful spying on other > > > list members rather than do their homework. > > > > > > This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not > welcome. > > > > > > Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and > stop trying to worm your > > > way in. It takes work to find a meteorite, not > scams. > > > > > > > > > "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share > with me off-List what kind > > > of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I have been > hunting the Benson area > > > Fall and don't know what kind or color of cars to > look for. I promise to share > > > results if any. Thank you. > > > Carl Esparza > > > IMCA 5829 > > > Meteoritemax" > > > **************Can love help you live longer? Find > out now. > > > (http://personals.aol.com/articles/2009/02/18/longer-lives-through-relationships/?ncid=emlweu > > > > slove00000001) > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 15:19:33 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <203817.96518.qm@web110615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Easy, West was public knowledge, more than 75 meteorite hunters showed up, and people were everywhere angering landowners, tramping over fields, etc, we don't have or want that problem here. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Greg Stanley wrote: > From: Greg Stanley > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > To: cdtucson at cox.net, meteoritehunter at comcast.net > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, impactika at aol.com > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 1:07 PM > > All: > > I'm relatively new at this and I was wondering. > > Why is there so much difference between this fall and the > West, TX fall? > > Thanks, > > Greg S > > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:02:08 -0400 > > From: cdtucson at cox.net > > To: meteoritehunter at comcast.net > > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; > Impactika at aol.com > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a > meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > > > > WOW, > > I will take my chances with Anne and IMCA. Unlike > yourself, Anne is one of the honorable list members. She > knows me well enough to know that I did not intentionally > violate any rules. We all are entitled to an opinion and you > and I seem to disagree often. I don't know why this is on > list though. Here you go again mud slinging. As I recall it > was you that acused me of misrepresenting Carancas not the > other way around. I simply pointed out that those nice folks > in Peru invited our team to lunch while you say they > threatened your life. Well Mike we all write our own epitaph > and yours is well known. This may be a good episode for that > wonderful show, "Meteorite Men"? OUCH ! Sorry I could not > resist. . > > Carl -- > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > Meteoritemax > > > > > > ---- meteoritehunter at comcast.net > wrote: > >> > >> > >> WOW > >> > >> > >> > >> Can you say EX-IMCA member. > >> > >> > >> > >> Carl, you were rejected because of things like > calling me a "psycho" and worse names. > >> > >> The list archives are full of bad things you have > said about me. Do you honestly think? I would hunt with > you after the things you have said about me regarding > Carancas? > >> > >> Man, my day is getting brighter from the sheer > idiocy of this. > >> > >> Michael Farmer > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: cdtucson at cox.net > >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, > Impactika at aol.com, > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > >> Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 11:26:49 AM GMT -07:00 > U.S. Mountain Time (Arizona) > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a > meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > >> > >> Anne, > >> It is hard to believe that you would put this on > the list. > >> Respectfully , this is not Jack's find. Sure Jack > can claim ownership of his finds and nobody is going to take > them away from him but give us all a break here. This is a > fall that was observed by dozens of people and there are > dozens of us out looking for evidence of it. I don't think > this hit Jack on the head. I think he also had to figure > this out. Why is he any better than the rest of us???? I > simply asked what Mike drives as verification but obviously > I had already figured out the general area. Cat Mountain was > also this big secret that I had to do a lot of work to find > out where it was. I then shared this info with others and it > resulted in the discovery of Snyder Hill while they were > looking. This is all good and if you don't agree I am sorry > but How can you say? that this is Jack's find???? That > is ridiculous! > >> I did not post the location but I did ask Mike if > I could help earlier and he rejected me. This would have > made this location confidential. Now I'm not so sure? And > Jack never personally even bothered to respond to my list > posts and requests to help. As you know I offered to rescue > these critters before they drown in the rains. They said > no. > >> I don't know what material is left to be found but > hopefully now more will be found before they do drown. Again > this is all good. > >> PS what is your call on the leak of a private > email your Honor? > >> -- > >> Carl or Debbie Esparza > >> IMCA 5829 > >> Meteoritemax > >> > >> > >> ---- Impactika at aol.com > wrote: > >>> No, Mike, > >>> > >>> The IMCA does not condone this type of > behavior. IMCA members are expected > >>> to behave in a professional and ethical > manner. Please go read our code of > >>> Ethics, on the IMCA website,? > _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) . > >>> > >>> It is Jack Schaeder's discovery, and Jack's > wishes should be respected. > >>> > >>> But dreams of new meteorites will mislead > people. > >>> Surely you know that. > >>> > >>> Anne M. Black > >>> _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) > >>> _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ > (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) > >>> Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. > >>> _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> In a message dated 7/17/2009 10:57:13 AM > Mountain Daylight Time, > >>> meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > writes: > >>> Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl > Esparza, proud IMCA member, > >>> sent to some other Arizona residents. > >>> > >>> > >>> IMCA, do you approve of your members, > supposedly the people of the highest > >>> integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying on > other people? Is there any > >>> action that can be taken on this matter. > >>> > >>> > >>> This shows how pitiful some of these people > are, too lazy to do their own > >>> homework, and so deceitful that they will > resort to pitiful spying on other > >>> list members rather than do their homework. > >>> > >>> This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not > welcome. > >>> > >>> Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites > and stop trying to worm your > >>> way in. It takes work to find a meteorite, not > scams. > >>> > >>> > >>> "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians > share with me off-List what kind > >>> of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I have > been hunting the Benson area > >>> Fall and don't know what kind or color of cars > to look for. I promise to share > >>> results if any. Thank you. > >>> Carl Esparza > >>> IMCA 5829 > >>> Meteoritemax" > >>> **************Can love help you live longer? > Find out now. > >>> (http://personals.aol.com/articles/2009/02/18/longer-lives-through-relationships/?ncid=emlweu > >>> slove00000001) > >>> > ______________________________________________ > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about > storage limits. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From anitawestlake at att.net Fri Jul 17 15:20:27 2009 From: anitawestlake at att.net (Anita Westlake) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:20:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] For the Love of Bob Haag In-Reply-To: <879306.28374.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <879306.28374.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <513872.48464.qm@web83811.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Let's call this "Bob Haag Day"! I met him for the first time this Feb. in Tucson. He was incredibly nice to me even though I consider him somewhat of a "star" complete with his own entourage. He even kissed me on the cheek. I'm a fan for life! Anita ----- Original Message ---- From: Robert Woolard To: geeg48 at msn.com Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:17:24 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? Greg, ? You had written in part: ? ?" I don't know whether Bob Haag is the best hunter/collector, but I can tell you that he is the nicest guy you could want to know... " ? ???You got that right! Way back in 1986, I first saw Robert Haag on the David Letterman Show.? I was stunned to find out an "ordinary person" could actually buy and own a meteorite. I contacted him the very next day and ordered a few meteorites from him. He was out of stock on one of them? and so he sent me a major upgrade on a similar specimen ( a much larger and nicer pallasite slice, for the same price.) ???Then a bit later, when I found out he had actually hunted for and found some meteorites himself on a few trips, I was on the phone to him several times getting advice. I can see now that I was probably a bit of a pest, I must admit, but he never had anything but patience for me. ? I have talked with him on the phone and in person in Tucson many, many times now, and he has not changed in that regard. I was very happy that I had a chance to spend some time with him at West, and on a beer run to a liquor store together, I made sure he knew that HE was THE force behind me having had the thrills of finding my very own meteorites over about a half-dozen trips. Because of his help, my best friend and I have had the unbelievable luck of finding over 2,100 specimens totaling over 500 lbs on these few trips. Though there are definitely many others who have found more than me, I NEVER, NEVER would have thought that would have been possible when I was a young boy growing up in the cotton fields in NE Arkansas, and wishing that one day....???ONE day ....? I would find an actual REAL meteorite there in the ground.? And it all started with this "wildly enthusiastic kid" on the David Letterman show, who took the time to help a newbie. ? Sincerely, ? Robert Woolard ? ? ? ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 15:14:34 2009 From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo 11 Moon Rocks Photo Message-ID: <641972.15564.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I am also wondering what that sphere is? is it a marble? maybe used to scale the size? or are those found on our moon? very interesting. Best, Joe Kerchner http://skyrockcafe.com http://illinoismeteorites.com From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jul 17 15:29:26 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:29:26 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza Message-ID: In a message dated 7/17/2009 2:10:04 P.M. Central Daylight Time, stanleygregr at hotmail.com writes: All: I'm relatively new at this and I was wondering. Why is there so much difference between this fall and the West, TX fall? Thanks, Greg S ********* Greg, The main difference is that a meteorites were found by a lot of people in West in short order, and here the few that have been found have been few and far between in a not so publicly known location. In West it was not uncommon for people to find a meteorite once every other day, sometimes a bit more often, and other times some people went up to a week of hunting and not finding anything. But whatever the case, in West, at least part of the strewnfield was publicly known from day one. In West there was no chance that anyone could hoard all the finds for themselves, here there is a reasonable chance that Jack's team might be able to, or at least that is what it seems they hope they can do. If you are asking what is different about Farmer's stance this time around, it is because he is on the other side of the fence this time. And many people can appreciate that different circumstances can call for different plans of action. I think some people come down hard on Farmer, because he publicly states things in absolute black and white terms, strongly criticizing people, then he himself turns around and goes against his own previously publicly stated standards. Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823307x1201398715/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jul 17 15:30:01 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:30:01 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: <384068.87062.qm@web110608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090717153001.XTEBO.368779.imail@fed1rmwml33> Mike, Sorry list. Bob Haag was my partner in Peru. Unlike you he is a very charismatic and motivational Man. He never complains about anything. You could learn a lot from a man like Bob. ( and many others) You act more like a pathological Narcissist than a motivator. I have never felt welcome in your precious room. That is why I never bought anything there. And you have already told me you did not want to sell to me anymore. Go figure that one out? HELLO. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Michael Farmer wrote: > > Carl, this is out of control. > you were never in Peru for Carancas fall, please admit that to the list. > Bob Haag can prove me right, as I spoke to him and he told me all about it. Did you go to Carancas with Bob? NO, so please stop telling us all about what went on there as you really have no clue actually. > Thanks > I am not mud-slinging, I am showing what you are doing and it is wrong. > You are not welcome in my room at the Tucson show. > You just insulted Anne minutes ago, now you try to take it back. > Just stop. > Michael Farmer > > > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > > > From: cdtucson at cox.net > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > > To: meteoritehunter at comcast.net > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, Impactika at aol.com, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 1:02 PM > > WOW, > > I will take my chances with Anne and IMCA. Unlike yourself, > > Anne is one of the honorable list members. She knows me well > > enough to know that I did not intentionally violate any > > rules. We all are entitled to an opinion and you and I seem > > to disagree often. I don't know why this is on list though. > > Here you go again mud slinging. As I recall it was you that > > acused me of misrepresenting Carancas not the other way > > around. I simply pointed out that those nice folks in Peru > > invited our team to lunch while you say they threatened your > > life. Well Mike we all write our own epitaph and yours is > > well known. This may be a good episode for that wonderful > > show, "Meteorite Men"? OUCH ! Sorry I could not resist. . > > Carl -- > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > Meteoritemax > > > > > > ---- meteoritehunter at comcast.net > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > WOW > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you say EX-IMCA member. > > > > > > > > > > > > Carl, you were rejected because of things like calling > > me a "psycho" and worse names. > > > > > > The list archives are full of bad things you have said > > about me. Do you honestly think? I would hunt with you > > after the things you have said about me regarding Carancas? > > > > > > > > Man, my day is getting brighter from the sheer idiocy > > of this. > > > > > > Michael Farmer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: cdtucson at cox.net > > > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, > > Impactika at aol.com, > > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > > > > > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 11:26:49 AM GMT -07:00 > > U.S. Mountain Time (Arizona) > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a > > meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > > > > > > Anne, > > > It is hard to believe that you would put this on the > > list. > > > Respectfully , this is not Jack's find. Sure Jack can > > claim ownership of his finds and nobody is going to take > > them away from him but give us all a break here. This is a > > fall that was observed by dozens of people and there are > > dozens of us out looking for evidence of it. I don't think > > this hit Jack on the head. I think he also had to figure > > this out. Why is he any better than the rest of us???? I > > simply asked what Mike drives as verification but obviously > > I had already figured out the general area. Cat Mountain was > > also this big secret that I had to do a lot of work to find > > out where it was. I then shared this info with others and it > > resulted in the discovery of Snyder Hill while they were > > looking. This is all good and if you don't agree I am sorry > > but How can you say ?that this is Jack's find???? That is > > ridiculous! > > > I did not post the location but I did ask Mike if I > > could help earlier and he rejected me. This would have made > > this location confidential. Now I'm not so sure? And Jack > > never personally even bothered to respond to my list posts > > and requests to help. As you know I offered to rescue these > > critters before they drown in the rains. They said no. > > > I don't know what material is left to be found but > > hopefully now more will be found before they do drown. Again > > this is all good. > > > PS what is your call on the leak of a private email > > your Honor? ? > > > -- > > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > > > IMCA 5829 > > > Meteoritemax > > > > > > > > > ---- Impactika at aol.com > > wrote: > > > > No, Mike, > > > > > > > > The IMCA does not condone this type of behavior. > > IMCA members are expected > > > > to behave in a professional and ethical manner. > > Please go read our code of > > > > Ethics, on the IMCA website, ?_www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) . > > > > ? > > > > It is Jack Schaeder's discovery, and Jack's > > wishes should be respected. > > > > ? > > > > But dreams of new meteorites will mislead people. > > > > > > Surely you know that. > > > > > > > > Anne M. Black > > > > _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) > > > > _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ > > (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) > > > > > > Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. > > > > _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 7/17/2009 10:57:13 AM Mountain > > Daylight Time, > > > > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > > writes: > > > > Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl > > Esparza, proud IMCA member, > > > > sent to some other Arizona residents. > > > > > > > > > > > > IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly > > the people of the highest > > > > integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying on > > other people? Is there any > > > > action that can be taken on this matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > This shows how pitiful some of these people are, > > too lazy to do their own > > > > homework, and so deceitful that they will resort > > to pitiful spying on other > > > > list members rather than do their homework. > > > > > > > > This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not > > welcome. > > > > > > > > Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and > > stop trying to worm your > > > > way in. It takes work to find a meteorite, not > > scams. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share > > with me off-List what kind > > > > of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I have been > > hunting the Benson area > > > > Fall and don't know what kind or color of cars to > > look for. I promise to share > > > > results if any. Thank you. > > > > Carl Esparza > > > > IMCA 5829 > > > > Meteoritemax" > > > > **************Can love help you live longer? Find > > out now. > > > > (http://personals.aol.com/articles/2009/02/18/longer-lives-through-relationships/?ncid=emlweu > > > > > > slove00000001) > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jul 17 15:31:07 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo 11 Moon Rocks Photo In-Reply-To: <641972.15564.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <641972.15564.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A60D17B.90704@meteoritesusa.com> Hi Joe, List, I don't think it's for scale, though I could be wrong. The grid squares are 2mm. That sphere is less than 2mm in size. I don't know what it is... Regards, Eric Joe Kerchner wrote: > I am also wondering what that sphere is? is it a marble? maybe used to > scale the size? or are those found on our moon? very interesting. > Best, > -- Regards, Eric Wichman From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jul 17 15:32:57 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:32:57 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza Message-ID: Mike, I don't disagree with you on most of what you said. I just don't think that getting one's panties in a wad because someone would want to know if they spotted your car somewhere is the huge "ethics violation" that you make it out to be. Maybe others would think it is. I don't. I just shared my opinion. Steve In a message dated 7/17/2009 2:13:26 P.M. Central Daylight Time, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: Steve There are a few differences in these situations. 1. West was a free for all, I merely drove a mile down the road and found 5 or 6 cars and lots of hunters sitting beside the road, not exactly James Bond level work (I know them all) so I stopped. I was not out looking for you. And there were about 50 hunters in the strewnfield at that time, all we were doing was expanding the known area. 2. I was not begging people to give your vehicle information so I could spy on you. 3. This is not a free for all strewnfield yet, and Carl in that email was making offers, that if those he asked gave him my car data, he would make it worth their information. 4. Carl is acting like the searching for my vehicle is meteorite hunting as opposed to taking eyewitness reports, driving all over southern Arizona, taking aziumuths with compasses, and triangulating this fall, which is what Jack did. Homework paid off, he did not stoop to merely looking for the hunters. Steve, I wanted your data on your West stones more for total known weight and number of stones found more than coordinates. I knew where you were the whole time, and respected your location and me or people with me never hunted where you were. There is some respect involved actually. If hunters did their homework and showed up in the strewnfield, that is one thing, but to resort to spying on me, that is pitiful, like I said. I guess I have to watch for cars waiting at my gate from now on. Taking the shortcut is the way of a lazy person. Steve, there are differences in these situations. thanks by the way on your congrats for the stone I found, I sent a reply but with the wrong email so it did not go through. I feel that am IMCA member is acting in a way that is wrong, and Anne seems to agree. Michael Farmer **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823307x1201398715/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 15:26:58 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <507741.91301.qm@web46415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I have talked to many members of this list about this fall. I think it would have been best to keep it quiet from day one. By showing it off and talking about it was much like taking a kid into a candy store and not letting them get any - IMO. All the drama could have been avoided if the people hunting it would have kept quiet from the start. Surely you guys must have known that there would be bad feelings about this... Since my first post about this, I have wanted to keep quiet as to not get caught up in anymore then I already have but I have to say that the people who found this should not have made anything public if they did not want others out there, plain and simple. I too would like to understand why people out there dont want others in their "backyard" yet feel it is perfectly accpetable for them to do the same exact thing in West. I think alot of BS and drama could have been avoided by keeping it total secret rather then the method of "look what we found, but your not allowed to know where" This has caused alot of drama on this list and I hope the fall was worth it to those hunting and showing off the finds... I also hope that in the future if anyone who finds a new fall does not want others out there or asking that they simply keep quiet about it. Greg C. --- On Fri, 7/17/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > To: cdtucson at cox.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, Impactika at aol.com, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:52 PM > Carl, Anne and Mike, > > I am a bit? bewildered about this as well. > > If Carl had asked what car Farmer drove? because he > wanted to slit his car > tires, that would be one thing.? But? I don't > think that is the case here.? > > When I was at West hunting,? and finding lots of > rocks, would I ever think > someone was doing something? unethical if someone > asked what car I was > driving or where I was parked and? hunting?? > No.? Would I want them to know?? Not > always.? So? sometimes I would hide my car, or > take someone else's to a > hunting? spot. > > If someone found my car, would I be mad at them?? No. > Would I? file an > ethics complaint with the IMCA?? No. > > In fact, one? afternoon I returned from a field near > where we had pulled a > lot of West? stones out, only to see Farmer standing > by my car waiting.? > Others around? said he was waiting there for over a > half hour to talk with me.? > Did? he do anything unethical by doing that?? I > don't think so. > > Did that? make me want to share all my strewnfield > data with Mike even > though he was? almost crying on the this list begging > for me to share it????No, > his? attitude made me want to keep my info even more > secret. > > I find it? flattering that Mike finally comes around > to my way of thinking > as he gains more? experience, as he has in this case. > > > Mike calls this a "Blood sport" but? turns around and > cries "foul" when > someone wants to know what car he is? > driving????Interesting. > > (This is where I would normally insert? a humorous > insult towards Mike, but > I want the record to show that I have? refrained from > doing so.) > > Steve Arnold > of "Meteorite? Men" > > > > > In a message dated 7/17/2009 1:27:52 P.M. Central? > Daylight Time, > cdtucson at cox.net > writes: > Anne, > It is hard to believe that? you would put this on the > list. > Respectfully , this is not Jack's find. Sure? Jack can > claim ownership of > his finds and nobody is going to take them away from? > him but give us all a > break here. This is a fall that was observed by dozens > of? people and there > are dozens of us out looking for evidence of it. I don't > think? this hit Jack > on the head. I think he also had to figure this out. Why is > he any? better > than the rest of us???? I simply asked what Mike drives as > verification? but > obviously I had already figured out the general area. Cat > Mountain was also > this big secret that I had to do a lot of work to find out > where it was. I > then? shared this info with others and it resulted in > the discovery of > Snyder Hill? while they were looking. This is all good > and if you don't agree I > am sorry but? How can you say? that this is > Jack's find???? That is > ridiculous! > I did? not post the location but I did ask Mike if I > could help earlier and > he rejected? me. This would have made this location > confidential. Now I'm > not so sure? And? Jack never personally even bothered > to respond to my list > posts and requests to? help. As you know I offered to > rescue these critters > before they drown in the? rains. They said no. > I don't know what material is left to be found but? > hopefully now more will > be found before they do drown. Again this is all? > good. > PS what is your call on the leak of a private email your > Honor???? > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax? > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See > yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823307x1201398715/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JulystepsfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 15:37:20 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: <507741.91301.qm@web46415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <899105.99526.qm@web110609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Greg, you are absolutely correct, and believe me, it won't happen again. Silence is golden from now on. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Greg Catterton wrote: > From: Greg Catterton > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > To: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 1:26 PM > > I have talked to many members of this list about this > fall. > I think it would have been best to keep it quiet from day > one. > By showing it off and talking about it was much like taking > a kid into a candy store and not letting them get any - > IMO. > > All the drama could have been avoided if the people hunting > it would have kept quiet from the start. Surely you guys > must have known that there would be bad feelings about > this... > > Since my first post about this, I have wanted to keep quiet > as to not get caught up in anymore then I already have but I > have to say that the people who found this should not have > made anything public if they did not want others out there, > plain and simple. > > I too would like to understand why people out there dont > want others in their "backyard" yet feel it is perfectly > accpetable for them to do the same exact thing in West. > > I think alot of BS and drama could have been avoided by > keeping it total secret rather then the method of "look what > we found, but your not allowed to know where" > > This has caused alot of drama on this list and I hope the > fall was worth it to those hunting and showing off the > finds... I also hope that in the future if anyone who finds > a new fall does not want others out there or asking that > they simply keep quiet about it. > > Greg C. > > > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com > > wrote: > > > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a > meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > > To: cdtucson at cox.net, > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, > Impactika at aol.com, > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:52 PM > > Carl, Anne and Mike, > > > > I am a bit? bewildered about this as well. > > > > If Carl had asked what car Farmer drove? because he > > wanted to slit his car > > tires, that would be one thing.? But? I don't > > think that is the case here.? > > > > When I was at West hunting,? and finding lots of > > rocks, would I ever think > > someone was doing something? unethical if someone > > asked what car I was > > driving or where I was parked and? hunting?? > > No.? Would I want them to know?? Not > > always.? So? sometimes I would hide my car, or > > take someone else's to a > > hunting? spot. > > > > If someone found my car, would I be mad at them?? > No. > > Would I? file an > > ethics complaint with the IMCA?? No. > > > > In fact, one? afternoon I returned from a field near > > where we had pulled a > > lot of West? stones out, only to see Farmer standing > > by my car waiting.? > > Others around? said he was waiting there for over a > > half hour to talk with me.? > > Did? he do anything unethical by doing that?? I > > don't think so. > > > > Did that? make me want to share all my strewnfield > > data with Mike even > > though he was? almost crying on the this list > begging > > for me to share it????No, > > his? attitude made me want to keep my info even more > > secret. > > > > I find it? flattering that Mike finally comes around > > to my way of thinking > > as he gains more? experience, as he has in this > case. > > > > > > Mike calls this a "Blood sport" but? turns around > and > > cries "foul" when > > someone wants to know what car he is? > > driving????Interesting. > > > > (This is where I would normally insert? a humorous > > insult towards Mike, but > > I want the record to show that I have? refrained > from > > doing so.) > > > > Steve Arnold > > of "Meteorite? Men" > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 7/17/2009 1:27:52 P.M. Central? > > Daylight Time, > > cdtucson at cox.net > > writes: > > Anne, > > It is hard to believe that? you would put this on > the > > list. > > Respectfully , this is not Jack's find. Sure? Jack > can > > claim ownership of > > his finds and nobody is going to take them away > from? > > him but give us all a > > break here. This is a fall that was observed by > dozens > > of? people and there > > are dozens of us out looking for evidence of it. I > don't > > think? this hit Jack > > on the head. I think he also had to figure this out. > Why is > > he any? better > > than the rest of us???? I simply asked what Mike > drives as > > verification? but > > obviously I had already figured out the general area. > Cat > > Mountain was also > >? this big secret that I had to do a lot of work > to find out > > where it was. I > > then? shared this info with others and it resulted > in > > the discovery of > > Snyder Hill? while they were looking. This is all > good > > and if you don't agree I > > am sorry but? How can you say? that this is > > Jack's find???? That is > > ridiculous! > > I did? not post the location but I did ask Mike if I > > could help earlier and > > he rejected? me. This would have made this location > > confidential. Now I'm > > not so sure? And? Jack never personally even > bothered > > to respond to my list > > posts and requests to? help. As you know I offered > to > > rescue these critters > > before they drown in the? rains. They said no. > > I don't know what material is left to be found but? > > hopefully now more will > > be found before they do drown. Again this is all? > > good. > > PS what is your call on the leak of a private email > your > > Honor???? > > -- > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > Meteoritemax? > > > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. > See > > yours in just 2 easy > > steps! > > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823307x1201398715/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > > JulystepsfooterNO62) > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jul 17 15:41:57 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:41:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Caltech, JPL Researchers Provide Evidence that Microbial Mats Helped Build 3.4-Billion-Year-Old Stromatolites Message-ID: <200907171941.n6HJfvfh015089@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Caltech News Release For Immediate Release July 16, 2009 Caltech, JPL Researchers Provide Evidence that Microbial Mats Helped Build 3.4-Billion-Year-Old Stromatolites Findings may provide insight into the origins of life on Earth, and even the search for life on Mars PASADENA, Calif. - Stromatolites are dome- or column-like sedimentary rock structures that are formed in shallow water, layer by layer, over long periods of geologic time. Now, researchers from the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) have provided evidence that some of the most ancient stromatolites on our planet were built with the help of communities of equally ancient microorganisms, a finding that "adds unexpected depth to our understanding of the earliest record of life on Earth," notes JPL astrobiologist Abigail Allwood, a visitor in geology at Caltech. Their research, published in a recent issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), might also provide a new avenue for exploration in the search for signs of life on Mars. "Stromatolites grow by accreting sediment in shallow water," says John Grotzinger, the Fletcher Jones Professor of Geology at Caltech. "They get molded into these wave forms and, over time, the waves turn into discrete columns that propagate upward, like little knobs sticking up." Geologists have long known that the large majority of the relatively young stromatolites they study - those half a billion years old or so - have a biological origin; they're formed with the help of layers of microbes that grow in a thin film on the seafloor. How? The microbes' surface is coated in a mucilaginous substance to which sediment particles rolling past get stuck. "It has a strong flypaper effect," says Grotzinger. In addition, the microbes sprout a tangle of filaments that almost seem to grab the particles as they move along. "The end result," says Grotzinger, "is that wherever the mat is, sediment gets trapped." Thus it has become accepted that a dark band in a young stromatolite is indicative of organic material, he adds. "It's matter left behind where there once was a mat." But when you look back 3.45 billion years, to the early Archean period of geologic history, things aren't quite so simple. "Because stromatolites from this period of time have been around longer, more geologic processing has happened," Grotzinger says. Pushed deeper toward the center of Earth as time went by, these stromatolites were exposed to increasing, unrelenting heat. This is a problem when it comes to examining the stromatolites' potential biological beginnings, he explains, because heat degrades organic matter. "The hydrocarbons are driven off," he says. "What's left behind is a residue of nothing but carbon." This is why there has been an ongoing debate among geologists as to whether or not the carbon found in these ancient rocks is diagnostic of life or not. Proving the existence of life in younger rocks is fairly simple - all you have to do is extract the organic matter, and show that it came from the microorganisms. But there's no such cut-and-dried method for analyzing the older stromatolites. "When the rocks are old and have been heated up and beaten up," says Grotzinger, "all you have to look at is their texture and morphology." Which is exactly what Allwood and Grotzinger did with samples gathered at the Strelley Pool stromatolite formation in Western Australia. The samples, says Grotzinger, were "incredibly well preserved." Dark lines of what was potentially organic matter were "clearly associated with the lamination, just like we see in younger rocks. That sort of relationship would be hard to explain without a biological mechanism." "We already knew from our earlier work that we had an assemblage of stromatolites that was most plausibly interpreted as a microbial reef built by Early Archean microorganisms," adds Allwood, "but direct evidence of actual microorganisms was lacking in these ancient, altered rocks. There were no microfossils, no organic material, not even any of the microtextural hallmarks typically associated with microbially mediated sedimentary rocks." So Allwood set about trying to find other types of evidence to test the biological hypothesis. To do so, she looked at what she calls the "microscale textures and fabrics in the rocks, patterns of textural variation through the stromatolites and - importantly - organic layers that looked like actual fossilized organic remnants of microbial mats within the stromatolites." What she saw were "discrete, mat-like layers of organic material that contoured the stromatolites from edge to edge, following steep slopes and continuing along low areas without thickening." She also found pieces of microbial mat incorporated into storm deposits, which disproved the idea that the organic material had been introduced into the rock more recently, rather than being laid down with the original sediment. "In addition," Allwood notes, "Raman spectroscopy showed that the organics had been 'cooked' to the same burial temperature as the host rock, again indicating the organics are not young contaminants." Allwood says she, Grotzinger, and their team have collected enough evidence that it's no longer any "great leap" to accept these stromatolites as biological in origin. "I think the more we dig at these stromatolites, the more evidence we'll find of Early Archean life and the nature of Earth's early ecosystems," she says. That's no small feat, since it's been difficult to prove that life existed at all that far back in the geologic record. "Recently there has been increasing but still indirect evidence suggesting life existed back then, but direct evidence of microorganisms, at the microscale, remained elusive due to poor preservation of the rocks," Allwood notes. "I think most people probably thought that these Early Archean rocks were too poorly preserved to yield such information." The implications of the findings don't stop at life on Earth. "One of my motivations for understanding stromatolites," Allwood says, "is the knowledge that if microbial communities once flourished on Mars, of all the traces they might leave in the rock record for us to discover, stromatolite and microbial reefs are arguably the most easily preserved and readily detected. Moreover, they're particularly likely to form in evaporative, mineral-precipitating settings such as those that have been identified on Mars. But to be able to interpret stromatolitic structures, we need a much more detailed understanding of how they form." The other authors on the paper, "Controls on development and diversity of Early Archean stromatolites," are Mark Anderson, Max Coleman, and Isik Kanik from JPL; Andrew Knoll, the Fisher Professor of Natural History at Harvard University; and Ian Burch from the University of New South Wales in Australia. The research described was supported in part by the Agouron Institute; Allwood was supported by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration Postdoctoral Program. # # # Contact: Lori Oliwenstein (626) 395-3631 lorio at caltech.edu From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jul 17 15:44:51 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:44:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: July 13-17, 2009 Message-ID: <200907171944.n6HJipij016255@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES July 13-17, 2009 o Pityusa Patera (Released 13 July 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090713a o Holden Crater (Released 14 July 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090714a o Green Crater (Released 15 July 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090715a o Charlier Crater in IR (Released 16 July 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090716a o Charlier Crater in VIR (Released 17 July 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090717a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From mafer at imagineopals.com Fri Jul 17 16:04:19 2009 From: mafer at imagineopals.com (mafer at imagineopals.com) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:04:19 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: <907947.9590.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <907947.9590.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1cb0825f2cf566c91ded2648ed23ce1e@> Mike, I'm unsure what he's hunting, meteorites or vehicles...might want to look into lowjack or something. Never can tell, eh? Mark On July 17, 5:56 pm Michael Farmer wrote: > > Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl Esparza, proud IMCA > member, sent to some other Arizona residents. > > IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly the people of the > highest integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying on other people? Is > there any action that can be taken on this matter. > > This shows how pitiful some of these people are, too lazy to do their > own homework, and so deceitful that they will resort to pitiful spying > on other list members rather than do their homework. > This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not welcome. > > Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and stop trying to worm > your way in. It takes work to find a meteorite, not scams. > > "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share with me off-List > what kind of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I have been hunting the > Benson area Fall and don't know what kind or color of cars to look for. > I promise to share results if any. Thank you. Carl Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax" > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jul 17 17:09:49 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:09:49 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo 11 Moon Rocks Photo In-Reply-To: <4A60D17B.90704@meteoritesusa.com> References: <641972.15564.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4A60D17B.90704@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:31:07 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Joe, List, > >I don't think it's for scale, though I could be wrong. > >The grid squares are 2mm. That sphere is less than 2mm in size. > >I don't know what it is... I propose the following method to figure out what the sphere is: "Hey Dr. Randy! What's that little black sphere in your photo?" (wait a while) From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jul 17 17:12:59 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:12:59 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: References: <907947.9590.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:04:19 +0100, you wrote: >Mike, I'm unsure what he's hunting, meteorites or vehicles...might want to >look into lowjack or something. > >Never can tell, eh? He's a member of the IMCA-- Is Mike's Car Around? From korotev at wustl.edu Fri Jul 17 16:18:12 2009 From: korotev at wustl.edu (Randy Korotev) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:18:12 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo 11 Moon Rocks Photo In-Reply-To: <4A60CBE5.2020708@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A60CBE5.2020708@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <200907172018.n6HKI5O21403@levee.wustl.edu> It's an impact-glass spherule. There's another one to the right, just right of center. It's got a soil coating. Any handful of lunar soil is loaded with these things. Most are in the 0.1-mm range. The biggest I've seen is 2 mm, but I think there's one of ~2 centimeters in the Apollo collection. See this: http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/rlk_5325_apollo11_l.jpg http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/regolith_breccia.htm I suppose they're the lunar equivalent of tektites. Randy Korotev (the guy who took the photo) At 14:07 17-07-09 Friday, you wrote: >Hi List, > >Just ran across this article and photo... Everyone loves photos of >moon rocks right?! > >Moon Rocks Photo >http://news-info.wustl.edu/pub/libs/images/usr/8422_h.jpg > >Article: Apollo 11 moon rocks still crucial 40 years later, say >WUSTL researchers >http://news-info.wustl.edu/news/page/normal/14375.html > >What's the little round black sphere in the upper left of the photo? >Is that some sort of meteoritic spheroid? > >-- >Regards, >Eric Wichman >Meteorites USA >http://www.meteoritesusa.com >904-236-5394 From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jul 17 16:21:25 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:21:25 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090717162125.BZ9K3.369422.imail@fed1rmwml33> Darren, Thanks for that. We all need a good laugh once in a while. You are too funny. Yesterday, while SUV hunting I did find a possible meteorite from another fall. More on that later. -- Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Darren Garrison wrote: > On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:04:19 +0100, you wrote: > > >Mike, I'm unsure what he's hunting, meteorites or vehicles...might want to > >look into lowjack or something. > > > >Never can tell, eh? > > He's a member of the IMCA-- Is Mike's Car Around? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jul 17 17:33:59 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:33:59 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo 11 Moon Rocks Photo In-Reply-To: <200907172018.n6HKI5O21403@levee.wustl.edu> References: <4A60CBE5.2020708@meteoritesusa.com> <200907172018.n6HKI5O21403@levee.wustl.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:18:12 -0500, you wrote: >I suppose they're the lunar equivalent of tektites. Or like Nininger spheroids/spherules/spheres On a related note, anyone have a subscripton to Nature that could send me this article I just googled up? http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v225/n5234/pdf/225717a0.pdf From Metorman46 at aol.com Fri Jul 17 16:33:52 2009 From: Metorman46 at aol.com (Metorman46 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:33:52 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] H. A Ward Message-ID: Henry Augustus Ward was a very prominent figure in the meteorite community during his life time and is mentioned in H.H. Niningers books as being prominent in his life as well.He purchased many meteorite specimens from him as well as traveled the world in search of meteorites for his collection and for resale. Lets not forget him and his contributions,i think. Best Regards;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770 **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823307x1201398715/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 16:39:37 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: <20090717162125.BZ9K3.369422.imail@fed1rmwml33> Message-ID: <506110.6121.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Good grief, so you found me yesterday, you found the new fall strewnfield, and you found a new meteorite all from your car. Man, you are good. Amazing that knowing where I was hunting you are today at home on the computer and not picking up new meteorites. Kinda makes you wonder. You still didn't tell the list that you were not in Carancas. How many new Arizona meteorites is this for you now, besides the ones from a Moroccans Tucson show table, um I mean your Arivaca ranch? Inquiring minds want to know. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 7/17/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > From: cdtucson at cox.net > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, cynapse at charter.net > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:21 PM > Darren, Thanks for that. We all need > a good laugh once in a while. You are too funny.? > Yesterday, while SUV hunting I did find a possible meteorite > from another fall. More on that later. > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > > > ---- Darren Garrison > wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:04:19 +0100, you wrote: > > > > >Mike, I'm unsure what he's hunting, meteorites or > vehicles...might want to > > >look into lowjack or something. > > > > > >Never can tell, eh? > > > > He's a member of the IMCA-- Is Mike's Car Around? > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jul 17 16:40:41 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:40:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: <-7735667460475331271@unknownmsgid> References: <907947.9590.qm@web110610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <-7735667460475331271@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: Hi Mike, Steve, Greg, and List, If everyone who hunts the strewnfield puts science first and properly logs the coordinates of each find, mapping the strewnfield, and providing specimens to scientific institutions, then what is the harm in having more boots on the ground to hunt? I think the issue here is mutual mistrust between some people on the List. Obviously people don't trust each other's motives to hunt. Keeping the site secret implies that any outside help will be a hinderance and that the science will suffer the consequences. I am wagering that Dr. Jack called on Mr. Farmer to assist because Farmer gets results - like him or not. But by turning away additional help, Jack and Mike might have judged some people wrong or given the wrong impression for the reasons behind their decision to keep the location a secret. Is it personal feelings? Jack and Mike don't like Carl, so they turned him away from helping? Is it that simple? Or do they not trust Carl's motives - that he might pocket finds for himself and not report or log them? Without knowing the reasons behind the decision-making, those on the List who are watching, have to draw their own conclusions. Part of putting science first is to put personal feelings or prejudices aside. If Jack and Mike were combing the desert in search of a cure for cancer, would they turn away help? I just don't understand some of the dynamics going on here - and as someone who intends to join the hunting fray eventually, I'd like to understand these things so I don't repeat the same mistakes or inadvertently make an enemy out of someone who might be an ally to science later. Personally, I don't give a rats bottom about the personalities of people involved in scientific research. I don't care what music they listen to, what party they vote for, what religion they subscribe to, or who they voted for on American Idol. I would gladly work a strewnfield with ANY person who puts SCIENCE FIRST. Maybe I am naive and I am certainly inexperienced in this respect - but this is how it appears to some on the List like me. I'm probably not alone in not understanding what the big issue is here - it's supposed to be about bringing meteorites to the attention of science in the hopes of making new discoveries that further our understanding of space and planetary sciences. I'd much rather find a new petrologic type that sets off a flurry of research and papers - and have to donate almost the entire mass to the appropriate institution, then find a bunch of OC's and hoard them with the intention of making money. I'm not accusing anyone of the latter - just trying to make a clumsy point. If science comes first, then I don't understand turning away help. That's just my 2 cents - actual worth may vary. Best regards, MikeG On 7/17/09, mafer at imagineopals.com wrote: > Mike, I'm unsure what he's hunting, meteorites or vehicles...might want to > look into lowjack or something. > > Never can tell, eh? > > Mark > > On July 17, 5:56 pm Michael Farmer wrote: >> >> Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl Esparza, proud IMCA >> member, sent to some other Arizona residents. >> >> IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly the people of the >> highest integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying on other people? Is >> there any action that can be taken on this matter. >> >> This shows how pitiful some of these people are, too lazy to do their >> own homework, and so deceitful that they will resort to pitiful spying >> on other list members rather than do their homework. >> This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not welcome. >> >> Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and stop trying to worm >> your way in. It takes work to find a meteorite, not scams. >> >> "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share with me off-List >> what kind of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I have been hunting the >> Benson area Fall and don't know what kind or color of cars to look for. >> I promise to share results if any. Thank you. Carl Esparza >> IMCA 5829 >> Meteoritemax" >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jul 17 16:42:55 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:42:55 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] For the Love of Bob Haag In-Reply-To: <513872.48464.qm@web83811.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <879306.28374.qm@web39603.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <513872.48464.qm@web83811.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Where is Bob now that we need him? Bob, please come and restore order to your people! :) On 7/17/09, Anita Westlake wrote: > > Let's call this "Bob Haag Day"! I met him for the first time this Feb. in > Tucson. He was incredibly nice to me even though I consider him somewhat of > a "star" complete with his own entourage. He even kissed me on the cheek. > I'm a fan for life! > Anita > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Robert Woolard > To: geeg48 at msn.com > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 1:17:24 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question For The List ???? WHO IS THE BEST > ANDMOST SUCCESSFUL METEORITE HUNTER OUT THERE? > > > Greg, > > You had written in part: > > " I don't know whether Bob Haag is the best hunter/collector, but I can > tell you that he is the nicest guy you could want to know... " > > > You got that right! Way back in 1986, I first saw Robert Haag on the > David Letterman Show. I was stunned to find out an "ordinary person" could > actually buy and own a meteorite. I contacted him the very next day and > ordered a few meteorites from him. He was out of stock on one of them and > so he sent me a major upgrade on a similar specimen ( a much larger and > nicer pallasite slice, for the same price.) > > Then a bit later, when I found out he had actually hunted for and found > some meteorites himself on a few trips, I was on the phone to him several > times getting advice. I can see now that I was probably a bit of a pest, I > must admit, but he never had anything but patience for me. > > I have talked with him on the phone and in person in Tucson many, many > times now, and he has not changed in that regard. I was very happy that I > had a chance to spend some time with him at West, and on a beer run to a > liquor store together, I made sure he knew that HE was THE force behind me > having had the thrills of finding my very own meteorites over about a > half-dozen trips. Because of his help, my best friend and I have had the > unbelievable luck of finding over 2,100 specimens totaling over 500 lbs on > these few trips. Though there are definitely many others who have found more > than me, I NEVER, NEVER would have thought that would have been possible > when I was a young boy growing up in the cotton fields in NE Arkansas, and > wishing that one day.... ONE day .... I would find an actual REAL > meteorite there in the ground. And it all started with this "wildly > enthusiastic kid" on the David Letterman show, who took the time to help a > newbie. > > Sincerely, > Robert Woolard > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 16:46:07 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <971192.41701.qm@web110615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Actually we have other help, you just don't know about it because we haven't told you. Carl has called me every name in the book, I would not invite him if he got out his wallet and begged me. This is a rare find, what is so hard about understanding that it does not need to be shared with everyone? It is not that complicated really. there are people we do not want to work with, you may not know why. Perhaps the landowners don't want 100 people out there. Did you think of that? Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > To: mafer at imagineopals.com > Cc: "Michael Farmer" , Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:40 PM > Hi Mike, Steve, Greg, and List, > > If everyone who hunts the strewnfield puts science first > and properly > logs the coordinates of each find, mapping the strewnfield, > and > providing specimens to scientific institutions, then what > is the harm > in having more boots on the ground to hunt? > > I think the issue here is mutual mistrust between some > people on the > List.? Obviously people don't trust each other's > motives to hunt. > > Keeping the site secret implies that any outside help will > be a > hinderance and that the science will suffer the > consequences.? I am > wagering that Dr. Jack called on Mr. Farmer to assist > because Farmer > gets results - like him or not.? But by turning away > additional help, > Jack and Mike might have judged some people wrong or given > the wrong > impression for the reasons behind their decision to keep > the location > a secret.? Is it personal feelings?? Jack and > Mike don't like Carl, so > they turned him away from helping?? Is it that > simple?? Or do they not > trust Carl's motives - that he might pocket finds for > himself and not > report or log them?? Without knowing the reasons > behind the > decision-making, those on the List who are watching, have > to draw > their own conclusions.? Part of putting science first > is to put > personal feelings or prejudices aside.? If Jack and > Mike were combing > the desert in search of a cure for cancer, would they turn > away help? > I just don't understand some of the dynamics going on here > - and as > someone who intends to join the hunting fray eventually, > I'd like to > understand these things so I don't repeat the same mistakes > or > inadvertently make an enemy out of someone who might be an > ally to > science later. > > Personally, I don't give a rats bottom about the > personalities of > people involved in scientific research.? I don't care > what music they > listen to, what party they vote for, what religion they > subscribe to, > or who they voted for on American Idol.???I > would gladly work a > strewnfield with ANY person who puts SCIENCE FIRST.? > Maybe I am naive > and I am certainly inexperienced in this respect - but this > is how it > appears to some on the List like me.? I'm probably not > alone in not > understanding what the big issue is here - it's supposed to > be about > bringing meteorites to the attention of science in the > hopes of making > new discoveries that further our understanding of space and > planetary > sciences.? I'd much rather find a new petrologic type > that sets off a > flurry of research and papers - and have to donate almost > the entire > mass to the appropriate institution, then find a bunch of > OC's and > hoard them with the intention of making > money.???I'm not accusing > anyone of the latter - just trying to make a clumsy point. > > If science comes first, then I don't understand turning > away help. > That's just my 2 cents - actual worth may vary. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > > > On 7/17/09, mafer at imagineopals.com > > wrote: > > Mike, I'm unsure what he's hunting, meteorites or > vehicles...might want to > > look into lowjack or something. > > > > Never can tell, eh? > > > > Mark > > > > On July 17, 5:56 pm Michael Farmer > wrote: > >> > >> Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl > Esparza, proud IMCA > >> member, sent to some other Arizona residents. > >> > >> IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly > the people of the > >> highest integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying > on other people? Is > >> there any action that can be taken on this > matter. > >> > >> This shows how pitiful some of these people are, > too lazy to do their > >> own homework, and so deceitful that they will > resort to pitiful spying > >> on other list members rather than do their > homework. > >> This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not > welcome. > >> > >> Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and > stop trying to worm > >> your way in. It takes work to find a meteorite, > not scams. > >> > >> "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share > with me off-List > >> what kind of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I > have been hunting the > >> Benson area Fall and don't know what kind or color > of cars to look for. > >> I promise to share results if any. Thank you. Carl > Esparza > >> IMCA 5829 > >> Meteoritemax" > >> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jul 17 18:04:46 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:04:46 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo landers photographed from orbit In-Reply-To: <4A60CBE5.2020708@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A60CBE5.2020708@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/multimedia/lroimages/apollosites.html From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jul 17 17:00:53 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:00:53 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: <971192.41701.qm@web110615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <971192.41701.qm@web110615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Mike and List, I often overlook that aspect of the hunt - private property owners. I'm sure they don't want a repeat of West and crowds of people showing up wanting on the property. Nobody would want that. I just figured that 2 people working an entire strewnfield could use some help - not 98 more people, but maybe a half dozen or so. But I am not going to second guess what you guys are doing on the ground - I just want to better understand the dynamics involved. You veterans of the List have the benefit of long relationships here - some good, some bad. Newbies and people like myself (semi-newbie?) don't have the time to go back through years of List archives and dredging up all the dirty laundry from the past - although I admit it is interesting reading when I have insomnia. I think it's unfortunate that this is playing out in public. Maybe it would have been best, as others have said today - to just keep the entire affair a secret until the fieldwork was done. The effect of this being on the open List is that the peanut gallery is going to get another negative dose of the bad behavior of the people in the meteorite world. It's a wonder they don't think we are all nuts. Well, regardless, I am keenly curious to learn more about the fall - in due time. I want to know what the petrologic type is, I want to see some photos of the matrix, and I want to read some stories about working the fall. I'd also like to hear that something about the new fall is anomalous and that science is interested in it - and maybe we can read about it in later MAPS journals. BTW - I'll give credit where credit is due - that oriented heat shield stone you found is superb. I'd be so tickled pink that I wouldn't have a care in the world until the euphoria wore off. Please do NOT cut it open - leave it as is. Best regards, MikeG On 7/17/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > > Actually we have other help, you just don't know about it because we haven't > told you. > Carl has called me every name in the book, I would not invite him if he got > out his wallet and begged me. This is a rare find, what is so hard about > understanding that it does not need to be shared with everyone? > It is not that complicated really. > there are people we do not want to work with, you may not know why. > Perhaps the landowners don't want 100 people out there. Did you think of > that? > Michael Farmer > > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks > wrote: > >> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl >> Esparza >> To: mafer at imagineopals.com >> Cc: "Michael Farmer" , >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:40 PM >> Hi Mike, Steve, Greg, and List, >> >> If everyone who hunts the strewnfield puts science first >> and properly >> logs the coordinates of each find, mapping the strewnfield, >> and >> providing specimens to scientific institutions, then what >> is the harm >> in having more boots on the ground to hunt? >> >> I think the issue here is mutual mistrust between some >> people on the >> List. Obviously people don't trust each other's >> motives to hunt. >> >> Keeping the site secret implies that any outside help will >> be a >> hinderance and that the science will suffer the >> consequences. I am >> wagering that Dr. Jack called on Mr. Farmer to assist >> because Farmer >> gets results - like him or not. But by turning away >> additional help, >> Jack and Mike might have judged some people wrong or given >> the wrong >> impression for the reasons behind their decision to keep >> the location >> a secret. Is it personal feelings? Jack and >> Mike don't like Carl, so >> they turned him away from helping? Is it that >> simple? Or do they not >> trust Carl's motives - that he might pocket finds for >> himself and not >> report or log them? Without knowing the reasons >> behind the >> decision-making, those on the List who are watching, have >> to draw >> their own conclusions. Part of putting science first >> is to put >> personal feelings or prejudices aside. If Jack and >> Mike were combing >> the desert in search of a cure for cancer, would they turn >> away help? >> I just don't understand some of the dynamics going on here >> - and as >> someone who intends to join the hunting fray eventually, >> I'd like to >> understand these things so I don't repeat the same mistakes >> or >> inadvertently make an enemy out of someone who might be an >> ally to >> science later. >> >> Personally, I don't give a rats bottom about the >> personalities of >> people involved in scientific research. I don't care >> what music they >> listen to, what party they vote for, what religion they >> subscribe to, >> or who they voted for on American Idol. I >> would gladly work a >> strewnfield with ANY person who puts SCIENCE FIRST. >> Maybe I am naive >> and I am certainly inexperienced in this respect - but this >> is how it >> appears to some on the List like me. I'm probably not >> alone in not >> understanding what the big issue is here - it's supposed to >> be about >> bringing meteorites to the attention of science in the >> hopes of making >> new discoveries that further our understanding of space and >> planetary >> sciences. I'd much rather find a new petrologic type >> that sets off a >> flurry of research and papers - and have to donate almost >> the entire >> mass to the appropriate institution, then find a bunch of >> OC's and >> hoard them with the intention of making >> money. I'm not accusing >> anyone of the latter - just trying to make a clumsy point. >> >> If science comes first, then I don't understand turning >> away help. >> That's just my 2 cents - actual worth may vary. >> >> Best regards, >> >> MikeG >> >> >> >> >> On 7/17/09, mafer at imagineopals.com >> >> wrote: >> > Mike, I'm unsure what he's hunting, meteorites or >> vehicles...might want to >> > look into lowjack or something. >> > >> > Never can tell, eh? >> > >> > Mark >> > >> > On July 17, 5:56 pm Michael Farmer >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl >> Esparza, proud IMCA >> >> member, sent to some other Arizona residents. >> >> >> >> IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly >> the people of the >> >> highest integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying >> on other people? Is >> >> there any action that can be taken on this >> matter. >> >> >> >> This shows how pitiful some of these people are, >> too lazy to do their >> >> own homework, and so deceitful that they will >> resort to pitiful spying >> >> on other list members rather than do their >> homework. >> >> This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not >> welcome. >> >> >> >> Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and >> stop trying to worm >> >> your way in. It takes work to find a meteorite, >> not scams. >> >> >> >> "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share >> with me off-List >> >> what kind of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I >> have been hunting the >> >> Benson area Fall and don't know what kind or color >> of cars to look for. >> >> I promise to share results if any. Thank you. Carl >> Esparza >> >> IMCA 5829 >> >> Meteoritemax" >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ______________________________________________ >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > >> >> >> -- >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From pshugar at clearwire.net Fri Jul 17 17:03:33 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:03:33 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Aliens Message-ID: To any and all aliens who may happen to read this list---if you are smart enough to even read. You got your drivers license for that clunker you dare to call a spaceship from the little green man from Mars. You couldn't hit the broadside of my apartment with your ray gun even if I stuck the doorknob in your barrel. You smell mangy fron the long trip to our wonderful corner of the universe. Take a bath!!!! You look like the dickins, with what little hair you have all coming out of your nose and ears. I can't understand what you are mumbling, since you insist on trying to talk with your mouth full of your version of C Rations. What I do hear sounds like a screaching bird of some sort. I'm cripple and deaf in one ear, but I think I could take you with one hand tied behind my back, you beady eyed maggott. I'll even give you my address, but you probably can't follow a map even if your wife did give you directions. Pete PS bring plenty of rocks to throw at me since you can't shoot worth a dingdong. From bandk at chorus.net Fri Jul 17 17:06:54 2009 From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:06:54 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Aliens References: Message-ID: ho ho ho....he he he.... ha ha ha ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Shugar" To: Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 4:03 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Aliens > To any and all aliens who may happen to read this list---if you are smart > enough to even read. You got your drivers license for that clunker you > dare to call a spaceship from the little green man from Mars. > You couldn't hit the broadside of my apartment with your ray gun even if I > stuck the doorknob in your barrel. > You smell mangy fron the long trip to our wonderful corner of the > universe. Take a bath!!!! > You look like the dickins, with what little hair you have all coming out > of your nose and ears. > I can't understand what you are mumbling, since you insist on trying to > talk with your mouth full of your version of C Rations. > What I do hear sounds like a screaching bird of some sort. > I'm cripple and deaf in one ear, but I think I could take you with one > hand tied behind my back, you beady eyed maggott. > I'll even give you my address, but you probably can't follow a map even > if your wife did give you directions. > Pete > PS bring plenty of rocks to throw at me since you can't shoot worth a > dingdong. > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 18:26:34 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:26:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Blackout on AZ fall information Message-ID: <214812.7811.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Shhhhhh (whispering) does any body know what type cell phone Mike Farmer uses???? keep it quiet but pass it along... Anyone know what color it is??? Elton "Sherlock" Buttinski From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jul 17 18:42:32 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:42:32 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: <506110.6121.qm@web110603.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090717184232.FWAZR.374736.imail@fed1rmwml45> Okay Mike, Sorry list hopefully just one final post on this topic. I am going to answer your accusations in order that you made them. -- > so you found me yesterday, you found the new fall strewn field, and you found a new meteorite all from your car. Man, you are good. Amazing that knowing where I was hunting you are today at home on the computer and not picking up new meteorites. > Kinda makes you wonder. You know me. I am no spring chicken. Yesterday kicked my butt. I am sore today. This searching is hard work at 100 plus degrees but I am not done looking yet. No not all from my car. > You still didn't tell the list that you were not in Carancas. My team beat you to Carancas and we sent Bob Haag ahead of you as well. This is the reason you don't like me but the truth be told. Had Bob declined my offer , you were the next name on my list to call. I wish Bob had said no because you are relentless and I would just as soon not be on your bad side. I did not have to go to Carancas because I sent Bob. Everyone who has read my ebay listing already knows this. > How many new Arizona meteorites is this for you now, besides the ones from a Moroccans Tucson show table, um I mean your Arivaca ranch? Yes, I have a ranch in Arivaca. Yes I have found a few meteorites throughout Southern AZ. What have you to do with this and why are you accusing me of buying them from Moroccans. Is this something you do or what??? All of these were found prior to 2001 and have been in their possession since then and 8 years later they are being classified. I hate that it has taken this long. They used to be worth a lot more money then they are now. Mike you simply cannot go around saying stuff like this without proof. It just makes you look even stupider than you are. How would you like it if I told this list that you solicit the services of young boys? Without proof that would be silly wouldn't it? So, please stick to facts here. Or this could get real ugly. And finally Yes I found another yesterday. If you would get out and look you too would find them. You don't always have to wait until somebody tells you where to look. They are everywhere. Later. Carl or Debbie Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax ---- Michael Farmer wrote: > > Good grief, > so you found me yesterday, you found the new fall strewnfield, and you found a new meteorite all from your car. Man, you are good. Amazing that knowing where I was hunting you are today at home on the computer and not picking up new meteorites. > Kinda makes you wonder. > You still didn't tell the list that you were not in Carancas. > How many new Arizona meteorites is this for you now, besides the ones from a Moroccans Tucson show table, um I mean your Arivaca ranch? > Inquiring minds want to know. > Michael Farmer > > > --- On Fri, 7/17/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > > > From: cdtucson at cox.net > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, cynapse at charter.net > > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:21 PM > > Darren, Thanks for that. We all need > > a good laugh once in a while. You are too funny.? > > Yesterday, while SUV hunting I did find a possible meteorite > > from another fall. More on that later. > > -- > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > Meteoritemax > > > > > > ---- Darren Garrison > > wrote: > > > On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:04:19 +0100, you wrote: > > > > > > >Mike, I'm unsure what he's hunting, meteorites or > > vehicles...might want to > > > >look into lowjack or something. > > > > > > > >Never can tell, eh? > > > > > > He's a member of the IMCA-- Is Mike's Car Around? > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From pshugar at clearwire.net Fri Jul 17 18:53:18 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:53:18 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza References: <20090717184232.FWAZR.374736.imail@fed1rmwml45> Message-ID: <0326C94243BA4E548C041FA863560976@laptop> I'm sorry bur the comment about "Boys" was so far out of line that is is somewhere close to the former planet Pluto. Having had one former Ebayer use a similar line on me and all the grief it took to get the feedback removed (over 2 weeks) I know what damage can be caused in the haste to call people names. It may never be undone. Even the mere allusion of calling a person such as this is/can be very damaging. Please limit it to facts and also off list as we are all getting tired of the tirade. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; "Michael Farmer" Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 5:42 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > Okay Mike, Sorry list hopefully just one final post on this topic. I am > going to answer your accusations in order that you made them. > -- >> so you found me yesterday, you found the new fall strewn field, and you >> found a new meteorite all from your car. Man, you are good. Amazing that >> knowing where I was hunting you are today at home on the computer and not >> picking up new meteorites. >> Kinda makes you wonder. > You know me. I am no spring chicken. Yesterday kicked my butt. I am sore > today. This searching is hard work at 100 plus degrees but I am not done > looking yet. No not all from my car. >> You still didn't tell the list that you were not in Carancas. > My team beat you to Carancas and we sent Bob Haag ahead of you as well. > This is the reason you don't like me but the truth be told. Had Bob > declined my offer , you were the next name on my list to call. I wish Bob > had said no because you are relentless and I would just as soon not be on > your bad side. I did not have to go to Carancas because I sent Bob. > Everyone who has read my ebay listing already knows this. >> How many new Arizona meteorites is this for you now, besides the ones >> from a Moroccans Tucson show table, um I mean your Arivaca ranch? > Yes, I have a ranch in Arivaca. Yes I have found a few meteorites > throughout Southern AZ. What have you to do with this and why are you > accusing me of buying them from Moroccans. Is this something you do or > what??? All of these were found prior to 2001 and have been in their > possession since then and 8 years later they are being classified. I hate > that it has taken this long. They used to be worth a lot more money then > they are now. Mike you simply cannot go around saying stuff like this > without proof. It just makes you look even stupider than you are. How > would you like it if I told this list that you solicit the services of > young boys? Without proof that would be silly wouldn't it? So, please > stick to facts here. Or this could get real ugly. > And finally Yes I found another yesterday. If you would get out and look > you too would find them. You don't always have to wait until somebody > tells you where to look. They are everywhere. > Later. > > > > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > > > ---- Michael Farmer wrote: >> >> Good grief, >> so you found me yesterday, you found the new fall strewnfield, and you >> found a new meteorite all from your car. Man, you are good. Amazing that >> knowing where I was hunting you are today at home on the computer and not >> picking up new meteorites. >> Kinda makes you wonder. >> You still didn't tell the list that you were not in Carancas. >> How many new Arizona meteorites is this for you now, besides the ones >> from a Moroccans Tucson show table, um I mean your Arivaca ranch? >> Inquiring minds want to know. >> Michael Farmer >> >> >> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: >> >> > From: cdtucson at cox.net >> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter >> > Carl Esparza >> > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, cynapse at charter.net >> > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:21 PM >> > Darren, Thanks for that. We all need >> > a good laugh once in a while. You are too funny. >> > Yesterday, while SUV hunting I did find a possible meteorite >> > from another fall. More on that later. >> > -- >> > Carl or Debbie Esparza >> > IMCA 5829 >> > Meteoritemax >> > >> > >> > ---- Darren Garrison >> > wrote: >> > > On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:04:19 +0100, you wrote: >> > > >> > > >Mike, I'm unsure what he's hunting, meteorites or >> > vehicles...might want to >> > > >look into lowjack or something. >> > > > >> > > >Never can tell, eh? >> > > >> > > He's a member of the IMCA-- Is Mike's Car Around? >> > > ______________________________________________ >> > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 19:03:00 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo landers photographed from orbit--NOT Message-ID: <919596.41982.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> This is the cover story that the public was given. North Korean scientist according to Pravda have found these shots were photo-shopped!!! The same scientists claim to have the real unencrypted photos. "They have all been displaced to a central location on the lunar highlands. As many as 7 space vehicles abandoned on the lunar surface: 3 decent stage Lunar landers, 2 Surveyor chassis plus at least 2 Luna landers have been found stacked into the shape of what appears to be a medieval catapult. The inclination and latitude suggests that once every 6 weeks the apparatus is aligned on a trajectory with an undisclosed endpoint within the former Yugoslavia. Inquiring Minds! Elton --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo landers photographed from orbit > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 6:04 PM > http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/multimedia/lroimages/apollosites.html From astroroks at hotmail.com Fri Jul 17 19:03:34 2009 From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:03:34 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: New Fall in Arizona..... Message-ID: forgot to plain text message From: astroroks at hotmail.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: New Fall in Arizona..... Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:01:10 -0500 Greetings to those running the desert in Southern Arizona. I just received an email from David V. Aguilar, Chief of the United States Border Patrol, Division of Home Land Security. He expressed his gratitude in having so much help curtailing illegal traffic in the SE sector of Arizona. I had to tell him that you folks were looking for a different type of alien. Extraterrestrial alien material. He then mentioned that everyone should ware border patrol hats, to assist further. He's such a joker! Good Luck All! Dennis Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jul 17 20:09:38 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:09:38 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Andromeda Strain Infects the List - Outsiders Beware! Message-ID: I would just like all of the newcomers and interested parties who are reading the recent messages on this List to be aware of a few facts. These facts may have become clouded or forgotten amidst all of the ruckus, so I want to do what I can to ensure that everyone reading the List today understands the full context of this situation. 1) The List is not usually like this. In fact, the List is usually a intellectual utopia where reason and good-natured debate rule the day. The recent hostilities seen on the List were caused by an outbreak of Andromeda Strain disease. This Andromeda outbreak has been traced back to a contaminated bowl of vegetarian chili that Mike Farmer and Steve Arnold shared on a double-date with two unknown Swiss undergraduates. The Andromeda strain then spread to various parties in the meteorite world by hitching a ride on specimens that were contaminated by Farmer and Arnold handling them. Carl Esparza caught it while visiting Farmer and sharing beers while watching re-runs of Good Times on late night cable. From there, the outbreak spread like wildfire, infecting numerous people on the Meteorite List. 2) The symptoms of Andromeda Strain infection include - paranoia, belligerence, confrontational behavior, increased blood pressure, expedited carpal tunnel syndrome (from excessive typing), and verbal diarrhea. The is followed by fits of crying, gnashing of teeth, self-flagellation, and then finally a general malaise. Acute cases can involve a progressive madness that leads to the infected patient wandering around in the desert looking for rocks - this can cause dehydration or even death. 3) The only cure for Andromeda Strain is a stiff dose of Knob Creek Kentucky bourbon - straight over ice in a glass vessel. This remedy is now being circulated to infected members of the List. Your individual FedEx tracking numbers will be email to you - so you can sign for your remedy package. 4) On the behalf of the infected members, I would like to apologize to the healthy members of the List and those outside observers who are watching this outbreak in action. Best regards, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 17 20:46:37 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:46:37 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Andromeda Strain Infects the List - Outsiders Beware! Message-ID: So that's it! And I thought they were just kidding around. Explains a lot of things.;-) Carl, the gullible _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Fri Jul 17 20:56:30 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:56:30 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Andromeda Strain Infects the List - Outsiders Beware! Message-ID: In a message dated 7/17/2009 6:09:58 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, meteoritemike at gmail.com writes: 1) The List is not usually like this. In fact, the List is usually a intellectual utopia where reason and good-natured debate rule the day. That is the funniest thing I have read in a month! Just ask Steve Arnold Chicago. 3) The only cure for Andromeda Strain is a stiff dose of Knob Creek Kentucky bourbon - straight over ice in a glass vessel. I do agree with the cure however!!! Tom **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823307x1201398715/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JulystepsfooterNO62) From deanbessey at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 21:02:24 2009 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:02:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: DEANS NWA SALE TO END ALL SALES Message-ID: <153618.87893.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com> My website will be taken down soon and replaced with an ecommerce website. Rather than move the stones over to my new planned site I would prefer to sell them all (And I need to raise money anyway)so half price sale this weekend. SO ALL METEORITES ON MY WEBSITE IS HALF PRICE Plus Shipping ($20 for first kilo and $15 per kilo therafter) YES YOU READ CORRECTLY 50% OFF ALL METEORITES Sale does not apply to classification services. See my website here: WWW.METEORITESHOP. COM Sincerely DEAN WWW.METEORITESHOP. COM From geoking at notkin.net Fri Jul 17 21:11:24 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:11:24 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] LPL Apollo 11 Anniversary Event and Meteorite Display, Tomorrow Message-ID: Dear Listees: An announcement has already been made about the Apollo 11 40th Anniversary event tomorrow, at the Lunar and Planetary Lab, but I wanted to post a follow up. I know from reading an internal email sent out to the meteorite exhibitors that there will be quite the impressive display tomorrow. I gather Robert Ward and Shauna Russell will be showing some of their amazing finds, and that Greg Hupe and Mike Farmer will be brining lunar and planetary material. Jack Schrader is listed as an exhibitor, and we can probably guess what he will have on display : ) I'll be brining some specimens from the Aerolite Meteorites reference collection that have never been seen in public before, and I think that's probably true for most or all of the exhibitors? As this is an anniversary celebration, not a sales event, I imagine exhibitors will be bringing some of their favorite meteorites. I know I will be. And it's not just about meteorites : ) There will be lectures, film events, question-and-answer sessions and you'll have the chance to meet and speak with people who actually worked on the Apollo program. I would encourage anyone in or around Tucson who is interested in the space program and/or meteorites to come join us. I expect it will be a day to remember. The event is free and open to the public. Further information: http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/calendar/calendar.php?ID=254 With best wishes, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com www.meteoriteblog.org From geoking at notkin.net Fri Jul 17 21:15:43 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:15:43 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] LPL 40th - P.S. Message-ID: <58F33B67-8B54-492A-8B56-7892048F5A77@notkin.net> Oops! I sure didn't mean to leave out the famous "Marshall" Marvin Kilgore who will also be displaying meteorites tomorrow. Sorry Marvin! : ) See you there. Cheers, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com www.meteoriteblog.org From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 17 21:52:33 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:52:33 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. Message-ID: The more I think of this painting the less I'm liking it. Why? If I remember some of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, Lot's wife turned around, viewed the destroyed city and then turned into a piller. This painting shows the bombardment and at the same Lot's daughters are already underway in getting their father drunk. This means they started this before the bombardment. Lot's wife wasn't even dead yet because they haven't started to leave the city. If I was God these guys wouldn't be worth saving either. Another thing. That bridge down below looks pretty shaky to me. There's a small group of people with an ox watching the carnage. An OX! Doesn't seem safe to me. Funny I would be thinking of safety when the world is being destroyed. OK, I know it's just a painting. Time for dinner. Carl, the obsessed. >Exactely Sean! ...and it shows a fine fragmenting fireball :-) _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jul 17 23:03:19 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:03:19 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:52:33 -0700, you wrote: > > >The more I think of this painting the less I'm liking it. Why? >If I remember some of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, >Lot's wife turned around, viewed the destroyed city and then >turned into a piller. This painting shows the bombardment >and at the same Lot's daughters are already underway in >getting their father drunk. This means they started this >before the bombardment. Lot's wife wasn't even dead >yet because they haven't started to leave the city. Not even close to the only problems with the painting-- such as the clothing and the technology show is contemporary to the time of the artist who painted it, no to the period being painted. The clothes are wrong, the bridge is wrong, the ships are wrong (and that's just from my memory of seeing it a day or two ago). Of course, the same is true of most other art of the period. From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Fri Jul 17 22:43:10 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:43:10 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. References: Message-ID: <7626D02041914A0E9696687DC778FE5C@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, This is hardly about meteorites, but... While the medieval artists probably worked in relative ignorance of the true appearances of ancient times, that becomes less and less true as time goes by. Van Leyden certainly knew his perfect little Northern European city is not what Sodom looked like, not how boats were, not bridges, etc. It was not the purpose of the 16th, 17th, 18th century artists to depict true classical or Biblical history. They wanted to picture the life around them as it was, and Bible stories and Greek and Roman myths were just an excuse to have a cover story (and to get a rich church or monastery to buy the painting). Medieval and Renaissance Rome, for example, still contained a vast sample of the ancient world's appearance; it was after all, the biggest city ever built up to that point in time and bigger than any other city yet built. But that's not what artists were interested in doing. It was not until the 19th century when suddenly the true appearance of ancient times, foreign lands, and other cultures became a theme for European artists. So the painting that bothers Carl so much: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Leyden-Lot.png is just a 16th century Dutch guy having a party with a couple of girls while cosmic disaster strikes all around him. It's like a bad movie (The Night of the Comet or Armageddon) where people do the same thing. How to get the respectable and churchy to pay for it? It's.. ahh... it's Lot... Yeah, and the destruction of Sodom! Yeah, that's the ticket. Wow! Lookit them fireballs! Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. > On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:52:33 -0700, you wrote: > >> >> >>The more I think of this painting the less I'm liking it. Why? >>If I remember some of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, >>Lot's wife turned around, viewed the destroyed city and then >>turned into a piller. This painting shows the bombardment >>and at the same Lot's daughters are already underway in >>getting their father drunk. This means they started this >>before the bombardment. Lot's wife wasn't even dead >>yet because they haven't started to leave the city. > > Not even close to the only problems with the painting-- such as the > clothing and > the technology show is contemporary to the time of the artist who > painted it, no > to the period being painted. The clothes are wrong, the bridge is > wrong, the > ships are wrong (and that's just from my memory of seeing it a day or > two ago). > > Of course, the same is true of most other art of the period. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From countdeiro at earthlink.net Fri Jul 17 23:36:31 2009 From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 20:36:31 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. Message-ID: <20292879.1247888191324.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Something to ponder. As a natural born skeptic it has been difficult at times for me to resolve the bibical descriptions of God created retributions exacted on sinners and cities with my increasing knowledge of the scientific explanations of historic cataclismic events. Point in case...the destruction of Sodam and Gomorrah... I know the painting was done in the quatrocento, but the painter may have been relying on some information about the event that has been lost in time. The artist may have had access to a more recognizable description of what caused the destruction than the scientifically ignorant one linked, as usual, with a unforgiving and murderous God, and used to teach morality in the Old Testament. The technically correct depiction of a "Meteor Storm" wiping out the cities wasn't painted by accident. I venture that's what really happened! And the event was so horrific it was told from sage to sage for centuries with the only explanation possible at that time...God did it! And here's why! Good Hunting!! Count Deiro -----Original Message----- >From: "Sterling K. Webb" >Sent: Jul 17, 2009 7:43 PM >To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >Cc: cdtucson at comcast.net >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. > >Hi, > > This is hardly about meteorites, but... While >the medieval artists probably worked in relative >ignorance of the true appearances of ancient >times, that becomes less and less true as time >goes by. Van Leyden certainly knew his perfect >little Northern European city is not what Sodom >looked like, not how boats were, not bridges, etc. > > It was not the purpose of the 16th, 17th, 18th >century artists to depict true classical or Biblical >history. They wanted to picture the life around >them as it was, and Bible stories and Greek and >Roman myths were just an excuse to have a cover >story (and to get a rich church or monastery to >buy the painting). > > Medieval and Renaissance Rome, for example, >still contained a vast sample of the ancient world's >appearance; it was after all, the biggest city ever >built up to that point in time and bigger than any >other city yet built. But that's not what artists were >interested in doing. > > It was not until the 19th century when suddenly >the true appearance of ancient times, foreign lands, >and other cultures became a theme for European >artists. So the painting that bothers Carl so much: >http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Leyden-Lot.png >is just a 16th century Dutch guy having a party >with a couple of girls while cosmic disaster strikes >all around him. It's like a bad movie (The Night of the >Comet or Armageddon) where people do the same >thing. How to get the respectable and churchy to pay >for it? It's.. ahh... it's Lot... Yeah, and the destruction >of Sodom! Yeah, that's the ticket. Wow! Lookit them >fireballs! > > >Sterling K. Webb >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Darren Garrison" >To: >Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 10:03 PM >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. > > >> On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:52:33 -0700, you wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>The more I think of this painting the less I'm liking it. Why? >>>If I remember some of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, >>>Lot's wife turned around, viewed the destroyed city and then >>>turned into a piller. This painting shows the bombardment >>>and at the same Lot's daughters are already underway in >>>getting their father drunk. This means they started this >>>before the bombardment. Lot's wife wasn't even dead >>>yet because they haven't started to leave the city. >> >> Not even close to the only problems with the painting-- such as the >> clothing and >> the technology show is contemporary to the time of the artist who >> painted it, no >> to the period being painted. The clothes are wrong, the bridge is >> wrong, the >> ships are wrong (and that's just from my memory of seeing it a day or >> two ago). >> >> Of course, the same is true of most other art of the period. >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk Sat Jul 18 06:05:36 2009 From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk (jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:05:36 +0100 (BST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures Message-ID: <29101535.86271247911536381.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> Hello list members I've been contacted by a fellow in Dublin who found this object years ago and has always been curious about whether it might be a meteorite.He states that it is about 2cms long(roughly 7/8 of an inch for our non-metric list members) and is light like aluminium.I have asked him whether it was magnetic and he said 'no' . Of course I should have asked him whether it was attracted to a magnet, so I did and waiting for his reponse now.Because this object is so small I've advised him that the best way to test may be to file down a flat area and apply nitol to see if a pattern emerges. Of course even this isn't 100% if it happened to be an ataxite. I told him I thought it was unlikely that the object was meteoritic in nature but that I would pose the question to the meteorite list and see what the experts think.So if you could please take a look and offer your opinions I'd appreciate it. Jim Brady http://tr.im/sUQk From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sat Jul 18 07:53:37 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 07:53:37 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 18, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_18_2009.html __________________________ **************Can love help you live longer? Find out now. (http://personals.aol.com/articles/2009/02/18/longer-lives-through-relationships/?ncid=emlweu slove00000001) From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sat Jul 18 09:28:48 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:28:48 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. In-Reply-To: <7626D02041914A0E9696687DC778FE5C@ATARIENGINE2> References: <7626D02041914A0E9696687DC778FE5C@ATARIENGINE2> Message-ID: <000001ca07ab$b943a2a0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Yes, Of course the purpose of such paintings was not to depict the themes in a realistic or historical manner - but they are certainly more than just a transfer or translation of a topic, a story, in the present time of the painter. For example in that picture you see all at once. The destruction of Sodom, Lot and his daughters fleeing over the bridge, while his wife looks back, and the same Lot and his daughters in the foreground. And such paintings are overloaded with symbols and conventions. Colours, clothes, shapes, things, gestures, plants, animals.. they have a certain meaning, which the contemporary people knew, but which we don't understand today anymore. And with the composition of these elements the painters were playing and giving a certain message. Simple example - here you see from Lot only one leg - whenever you have man and a woman on a renaissance picture close together and you have a leg hidden or slung legs, then the contemporary beholders knew: Aha, intercourse. And why Leyden painted not normal bottles for the wine? Note also, how active Lot is. In the text of the bible Lot is made drunk and seduced by his daughters and in other paintings you will see lot depicted passive and as an aged. And what is the eye-catcher, the most pre-dominant element in that picture? The red tent with the entrance. Not directly a subtle but a quite hefty symbol... Look there we have the fireball and the fire raining down on the town, but the same fire you find in that torch-like object left of the tent. So maybe the meaning could be, ooops, that's not so fine, what you're doing there. Why there is that carrion in that scene - I don't think, it's because they had a barbecue - on the bridge there is a mule.. if it has to do with the bridge scene - maybe the stump or root which is so strangely emphasized by the illumination is something similar like Lot's wife on the bridge? On the other hand, note how the stump and the diagonal branch repeat the shape of the sinking ship... Why he didn't paint it like Duerer? http://xavi.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/durer_lot_sodom.jpg He knew Duerer and maybe that's why he painted Sodom and Gomorrah as harbour cities too? No idea about that stuff. Back to meteorites, I only chose that picture because the fire from the sky looks similar to other representations of meteorite falls, Certainly isn't pictured a meteorite shower, but that is the solution of Leyden how to paint: "Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven." Best! Martin PS: >it was after all, the biggest city ever >built up to that point in time and bigger than any >other city yet built. And what was with Asia? Angkor? China... -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Sterling K. Webb Gesendet: Samstag, 18. Juli 2009 04:43 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Cc: cdtucson at comcast.net Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. Hi, This is hardly about meteorites, but... While the medieval artists probably worked in relative ignorance of the true appearances of ancient times, that becomes less and less true as time goes by. Van Leyden certainly knew his perfect little Northern European city is not what Sodom looked like, not how boats were, not bridges, etc. It was not the purpose of the 16th, 17th, 18th century artists to depict true classical or Biblical history. They wanted to picture the life around them as it was, and Bible stories and Greek and Roman myths were just an excuse to have a cover story (and to get a rich church or monastery to buy the painting). Medieval and Renaissance Rome, for example, still contained a vast sample of the ancient world's appearance; it was after all, the biggest city ever built up to that point in time and bigger than any other city yet built. But that's not what artists were interested in doing. It was not until the 19th century when suddenly the true appearance of ancient times, foreign lands, and other cultures became a theme for European artists. So the painting that bothers Carl so much: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Leyden-Lot.png is just a 16th century Dutch guy having a party with a couple of girls while cosmic disaster strikes all around him. It's like a bad movie (The Night of the Comet or Armageddon) where people do the same thing. How to get the respectable and churchy to pay for it? It's.. ahh... it's Lot... Yeah, and the destruction of Sodom! Yeah, that's the ticket. Wow! Lookit them fireballs! Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. > On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:52:33 -0700, you wrote: > >> >> >>The more I think of this painting the less I'm liking it. Why? >>If I remember some of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, >>Lot's wife turned around, viewed the destroyed city and then >>turned into a piller. This painting shows the bombardment >>and at the same Lot's daughters are already underway in >>getting their father drunk. This means they started this >>before the bombardment. Lot's wife wasn't even dead >>yet because they haven't started to leave the city. > > Not even close to the only problems with the painting-- such as the > clothing and > the technology show is contemporary to the time of the artist who > painted it, no > to the period being painted. The clothes are wrong, the bridge is > wrong, the > ships are wrong (and that's just from my memory of seeing it a day or > two ago). > > Of course, the same is true of most other art of the period. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mail at mhmeteorites.com Sat Jul 18 10:24:37 2009 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:24:37 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures Message-ID: <1798997815-1247927136-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1159410750-@bxe1058.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Hi Jim Interesting object. It reminds me of a piece of bomb shrapnel. It does not appear to be a meteorite, but maybe you could remove a tiny piece and do a nickel test. Matt ------Original Message------ From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com ReplyTo: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures Sent: Jul 18, 2009 4:05 AM Hello list members I've been contacted by a fellow in Dublin who found this object years ago and has always been curious about whether it might be a meteorite.He states that it is about 2cms long(roughly 7/8 of an inch for our non-metric list members) and is light like aluminium.I have asked him whether it was magnetic and he said 'no' . Of course I should have asked him whether it was attracted to a magnet, so I did and waiting for his reponse now.Because this object is so small I've advised him that the best way to test may be to file down a flat area and apply nitol to see if a pattern emerges. Of course even this isn't 100% if it happened to be an ataxite. I told him I thought it was unlikely that the object was meteoritic in nature but that I would pose the question to the meteorite list and see what the experts think.So if you could please take a look and offer your opinions I'd appreciate it. Jim Brady http://tr.im/sUQk ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat Jul 18 10:38:45 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:38:45 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures In-Reply-To: <1798997815-1247927136-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1159410750-@bxe1058.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1798997815-1247927136-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1159410750-@bxe1058.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: The photo caption says it's not magnetic and is very light. So chances are (combined with the appearance), it's not a meteorite. It's an interesting little piece of metal that probably has a good story behind it, but I think it's terrestrial. Best regards, MikeG On 7/18/09, Matt Morgan wrote: > Hi Jim > Interesting object. It reminds me of a piece of bomb shrapnel. It does not > appear to be a meteorite, but maybe you could remove a tiny piece and do a > nickel test. > Matt > ------Original Message------ > From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk > Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > ReplyTo: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk > Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures > Sent: Jul 18, 2009 4:05 AM > > Hello list members > I've been contacted by a fellow in Dublin who found this > object years ago and has always been curious about whether it might be > a meteorite.He states that it is about 2cms long(roughly 7/8 of an inch > for our non-metric list members) and is light like aluminium.I have > asked him whether it was magnetic and he said 'no' . > Of course I should have asked him whether it was > attracted to a magnet, so I did and waiting for his reponse now.Because > this object is so small I've advised him that the best way to test may > be to file down a flat area and apply nitol to see if a pattern emerges. > Of course even this isn't 100% if it happened to be an ataxite. > I told him I thought it was unlikely that the object was > meteoritic in nature but that I would pose the question to the > meteorite list and see what the experts think.So if you could please > take a look and offer your opinions I'd appreciate it. > Jim Brady > > http://tr.im/sUQk > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > Matt Morgan > Mile High Meteorites > http://www.mhmeteorites.com > P.O. Box 151293 > Lakewood, CO 80215 USA > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From mqfowler at mac.com Sat Jul 18 11:45:37 2009 From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:45:37 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures Message-ID: Considering that it is light like aluminum, maybe it is a piece of melted aluminum? Why try to make things more complicated than they are? Mike Fowler Chicago > Hello list members > I've been contacted by a fellow in Dublin who found this > object years ago and has always been curious about whether it might be > a meteorite.He states that it is about 2cms long(roughly 7/8 of an > inch > for our non-metric list members) and is light like aluminium.I have > asked him whether it was magnetic and he said 'no' . > Of course I should have asked him whether it was > attracted to a magnet, so I did and waiting for his reponse > now.Because > this object is so small I've advised him that the best way to test may > be to file down a flat area and apply nitol to see if a pattern > emerges. > Of course even this isn't 100% if it happened to be an ataxite. > I told him I thought it was unlikely that the object was > meteoritic in nature but that I would pose the question to the > meteorite list and see what the experts think.So if you could please > take a look and offer your opinions I'd appreciate it. > Jim Brady > > http://tr.im/sUQk > > ? Previous message: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. > ? Next message: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the > Day - July 18, 2009 > ? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 18 12:05:27 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:05:27 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures In-Reply-To: References: <1798997815-1247927136-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1159410750-@bxe1058.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: Hi, all, I've definintely seen similar objects - melted aluminum cans from a camp fire. Cheers, Pete ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:38:45 -0400 > From: meteoritemike at gmail.com > To: mail at mhmeteorites.com > CC: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures > > The photo caption says it's not magnetic and is very light. So > chances are (combined with the appearance), it's not a meteorite. > It's an interesting little piece of metal that probably has a good > story behind it, but I think it's terrestrial. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > > On 7/18/09, Matt Morgan wrote: >> Hi Jim >> Interesting object. It reminds me of a piece of bomb shrapnel. It does not >> appear to be a meteorite, but maybe you could remove a tiny piece and do a >> nickel test. >> Matt >> ------Original Message------ >> From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> ReplyTo: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures >> Sent: Jul 18, 2009 4:05 AM >> >> Hello list members >> I've been contacted by a fellow in Dublin who found this >> object years ago and has always been curious about whether it might be >> a meteorite.He states that it is about 2cms long(roughly 7/8 of an inch >> for our non-metric list members) and is light like aluminium.I have >> asked him whether it was magnetic and he said 'no' . >> Of course I should have asked him whether it was >> attracted to a magnet, so I did and waiting for his reponse now.Because >> this object is so small I've advised him that the best way to test may >> be to file down a flat area and apply nitol to see if a pattern emerges. >> Of course even this isn't 100% if it happened to be an ataxite. >> I told him I thought it was unlikely that the object was >> meteoritic in nature but that I would pose the question to the >> meteorite list and see what the experts think.So if you could please >> take a look and offer your opinions I'd appreciate it. >> Jim Brady >> >> http://tr.im/sUQk >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> Matt Morgan >> Mile High Meteorites >> http://www.mhmeteorites.com >> P.O. Box 151293 >> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047 From astroroks at hotmail.com Sat Jul 18 12:16:44 2009 From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:16:44 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures In-Reply-To: References: <1798997815-1247927136-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1159410750-@bxe1058.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: Hello and Good Morning all.... With the amount of space trash that is returning to earth, it very well could be a piece of 2024 aluminum. Or a missing bolt from the International space station. Put it in a box, give it a label and sell it on eBay! Ha! Have a great day! And you folks in Az running the desert, remember water, water, water! Don't make people come look for you.... Dennis > From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com > To: meteoritemike at gmail.com; mail at mhmeteorites.com > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:05:27 -0400 > CC: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures > > > Hi, all, > > I've definintely seen similar objects - melted aluminum cans from a camp fire. > > Cheers, > Pete > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:38:45 -0400 >> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com >> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com >> CC: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures >> >> The photo caption says it's not magnetic and is very light. So >> chances are (combined with the appearance), it's not a meteorite. >> It's an interesting little piece of metal that probably has a good >> story behind it, but I think it's terrestrial. >> >> Best regards, >> >> MikeG >> >> >> >> On 7/18/09, Matt Morgan wrote: >>> Hi Jim >>> Interesting object. It reminds me of a piece of bomb shrapnel. It does not >>> appear to be a meteorite, but maybe you could remove a tiny piece and do a >>> nickel test. >>> Matt >>> ------Original Message------ >>> From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> ReplyTo: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures >>> Sent: Jul 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>> >>> Hello list members >>> I've been contacted by a fellow in Dublin who found this >>> object years ago and has always been curious about whether it might be >>> a meteorite.He states that it is about 2cms long(roughly 7/8 of an inch >>> for our non-metric list members) and is light like aluminium.I have >>> asked him whether it was magnetic and he said 'no' . >>> Of course I should have asked him whether it was >>> attracted to a magnet, so I did and waiting for his reponse now.Because >>> this object is so small I've advised him that the best way to test may >>> be to file down a flat area and apply nitol to see if a pattern emerges. >>> Of course even this isn't 100% if it happened to be an ataxite. >>> I told him I thought it was unlikely that the object was >>> meteoritic in nature but that I would pose the question to the >>> meteorite list and see what the experts think.So if you could please >>> take a look and offer your opinions I'd appreciate it. >>> Jim Brady >>> >>> http://tr.im/sUQk >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >>> Matt Morgan >>> Mile High Meteorites >>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com >>> P.O. Box 151293 >>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> >> -- >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _________________________________________________________________ > Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com Sat Jul 18 12:25:26 2009 From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: <638892.9778.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <638892.9778.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <899298.46086.qm@web43408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Micheal and list, I feel Carl did nothing wrong, He found the strewnfield the only way he could, and he found it. I would have to say he did his homework. I see some hypocritical statements, Who is to say it is not a "free strewnfield" ? When somebody finds a meteorite, they can not call dibs on the strewnfield, So if I find a meteorite I can say nobody get to hunt for more until I say it's ok? That sounds crazy to me, thats just not how things are done. Just cuz it fell in AZ it does not make it any different than anyother fall, most falls are in some meteorite hunbters "backyard/state" that does not give them the right to say when somebody gets to hunt it, if they keep the coordinance serete and somebody find the strewnfield, no matter how they find it, it is fair game for them to hunt and give the coordinance out to whom ever they want to. I feel Steve made a good point, no matter how you found his car, you used the location of his car to get som info from him, no matter what you say you were there for, I am pretty sure that you hunted that area eventually. Carl did NOTHING wrong, he found it fair and square, this is nobody's fall, nobody no matter who live near it. IMHO. Best, Joe Kerchner http://skyrockcafe.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Michael Farmer To: cdtucson at cox.net; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Impactika at aol.com; MeteorHntr at aol.com Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 2:13:13 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza Steve There are a few differences in these situations. 1. West was a free for all, I merely drove a mile down the road and found 5 or 6 cars and lots of hunters sitting beside the road, not exactly James Bond level work (I know them all) so I stopped. I was not out looking for you. And there were about 50 hunters in the strewnfield at that time, all we were doing was expanding the known area. 2. I was not begging people to give your vehicle information so I could spy on you. 3. This is not a free for all strewnfield yet, and Carl in that email was making offers, that if those he asked gave him my car data, he would make it worth their information. 4. Carl is acting like the searching for my vehicle is meteorite hunting as opposed to taking eyewitness reports, driving all over southern Arizona, taking aziumuths with compasses, and triangulating this fall, which is what Jack did. Homework paid off, he did not stoop to merely looking for the hunters. Steve, I wanted your data on your West stones more for total known weight and number of stones found more than coordinates. I knew where you were the whole time, and respected your location and me or people with me never hunted where you were. There is some respect involved actually. If hunters did their homework and showed up in the strewnfield, that is one thing, but to resort to spying on me, that is pitiful, like I said. I guess I have to watch for cars waiting at my gate from now on. Taking the shortcut is the way of a lazy person. Steve, there are differences in these situations. thanks by the way on your congrats for the stone I found, I sent a reply but with the wrong email so it did not go through. I feel that am IMCA member is acting in a way that is wrong, and Anne seems to agree. Michael Farmer --- On Fri, 7/17/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > From: MeteorHntr at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza > To: cdtucson at cox.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, Impactika at aol.com, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com > Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 12:52 PM > Carl, Anne and Mike, > > I am a bit bewildered about this as well. > > If Carl had asked what car Farmer drove because he > wanted to slit his car > tires, that would be one thing. But I don't > think that is the case here. > > When I was at West hunting, and finding lots of > rocks, would I ever think > someone was doing something unethical if someone > asked what car I was > driving or where I was parked and hunting? > No. Would I want them to know? Not > always. So sometimes I would hide my car, or > take someone else's to a > hunting spot. > > If someone found my car, would I be mad at them? No. > Would I file an > ethics complaint with the IMCA? No. > > In fact, one afternoon I returned from a field near > where we had pulled a > lot of West stones out, only to see Farmer standing > by my car waiting. > Others around said he was waiting there for over a > half hour to talk with me. > Did he do anything unethical by doing that? I > don't think so. > > Did that make me want to share all my strewnfield > data with Mike even > though he was almost crying on the this list begging > for me to share it? No, > his attitude made me want to keep my info even more > secret. > > I find it flattering that Mike finally comes around > to my way of thinking > as he gains more experience, as he has in this case. > > > Mike calls this a "Blood sport" but turns around and > cries "foul" when > someone wants to know what car he is > driving? Interesting. > > (This is where I would normally insert a humorous > insult towards Mike, but > I want the record to show that I have refrained from > doing so.) > > Steve Arnold > of "Meteorite Men" > > > > > In a message dated 7/17/2009 1:27:52 P.M. Central > Daylight Time, > cdtucson at cox.net > writes: > Anne, > It is hard to believe that you would put this on the > list. > Respectfully , this is not Jack's find. Sure Jack can > claim ownership of > his finds and nobody is going to take them away from > him but give us all a > break here. This is a fall that was observed by dozens > of people and there > are dozens of us out looking for evidence of it. I don't > think this hit Jack > on the head. I think he also had to figure this out. Why is > he any better > than the rest of us???? I simply asked what Mike drives as > verification but > obviously I had already figured out the general area. Cat > Mountain was also > this big secret that I had to do a lot of work to find out > where it was. I > then shared this info with others and it resulted in > the discovery of > Snyder Hill while they were looking. This is all good > and if you don't agree I > am sorry but How can you say that this is > Jack's find???? That is > ridiculous! > I did not post the location but I did ask Mike if I > could help earlier and > he rejected me. This would have made this location > confidential. Now I'm > not so sure? And Jack never personally even bothered > to respond to my list > posts and requests to help. As you know I offered to > rescue these critters > before they drown in the rains. They said no. > I don't know what material is left to be found but > hopefully now more will > be found before they do drown. Again this is all > good. > PS what is your call on the leak of a private email your > Honor? > -- > Carl or Debbie Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See > yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823307x1201398715/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JulystepsfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jul 18 13:50:39 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:50:39 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] No market for meteorites In-Reply-To: <153618.87893.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <153618.87893.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://www.tribune-democrat.com/local/local_story_198230636.html?keyword=topstory Buyers delve for treasure from local troves By BERNIE HORNICK The Tribune-Democrat Being a field buyer for The Great Treasure Hunt is as much art as science. How to know, for instance, that the wedge of lumber a man pushed across the table was not the genuine piece of Noah?s Ark he claimed it was? ?It was just a piece of petrified wood,? buyer Matt Block declared with self-assurance Thursday, recalling the incident from another city. No sale. The Great Treasure Hunt is akin to a roving pawn shop that goes town to town, setting up for a few days at a motel and scarfing up a panoply of stuff to haul away for profitable resale. Sellers can unload items collecting dust to make a buck and ? in the midst of this Great Recession ? business is booming. The buyers tallied 25 customers before lunchtime Thursday at the Holiday Inn Express, 1440 Scalp Ave. ?Every week we get people in who are having trouble paying their bills,? Block said. ?People would rather have the money. Eating is more important.? In Johnstown, a woman sold items to pay for repairs to her car. Someone else here sold merchandise to heal a rescue dog that has cancer. And what an eclectic mix of goods Johnstown-area residents have been bringing in. Thursday?s spoils included a Martin acoustic guitar, a menu from the 1940 maiden voyage of the Queen Elizabeth ocean liner and trench knives from World War I. Block and fellow buyer Tony Adams say they will look at anything that comes in the door, though not necessarily buy it. They see meteorites often, though there?s no market for them. The Kernersville, N.C.-based company of 45 people has five teams of buyers on the road. Popular items the buyers pay for include scrap gold, old coins, watches and flatware. Each of the four buyers has a computer at his table to help determine a price. Block said they offer the best prices they can, but added, ?We?re here to make money, and people realize that.? The Great Treasure Hunt often finds a rich vein in older communities ? where residents might have good stuff and need a few dollars ? and where alternative outlets, such as pawn shops, are lacking. Do the buyers ever get rooked? Sure, on a weekly basis. They sometimes even buy dubious merchandise intentionally. ?We might buy knowing there?s an 80 percent chance it?s fake,? Adams said. ?We might buy a Babe Ruth autograph for $500 on the off chance it?s real. If it?s real, that?s seven or eight grand.? From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jul 18 14:22:01 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:22:01 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Apollo 11 Moon Rocks Photo In-Reply-To: References: <4A60CBE5.2020708@meteoritesusa.com> <200907172018.n6HKI5O21403@levee.wustl.edu> Message-ID: <7c4465p8odk0pouafgnkrjl8ibjv9ojqnd@4ax.com> On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 16:33:59 -0500, you wrote: >On a related note, anyone have a subscripton to Nature that could send me this >article I just googled up? > >http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v225/n5234/pdf/225717a0.pdf Someone kindly sent me a copy of the journal pages. There were bits of other papers at the begining and end of the relevant paper, including a couple of unrelated illustrations, so I removed all the unrelated material and reworked it as a single page, which you can doanload here: http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/MSitSSTIC_paper.jpg From stanleygregr at hotmail.com Sat Jul 18 13:32:24 2009 From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:32:24 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza In-Reply-To: <899298.46086.qm@web43408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <638892.9778.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <899298.46086.qm@web43408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: All: I would think there should be some kind of meteorite hunting etiquette when someone discovers a strewn field/or any cold find. Whether it?s a certain amount of time or when the person, who makes the discovery, decides to release the information (note: at some point I think they should, because if some meteorites end up on the market then that would certainly appear as being greedy). I know if I discovered a meteorite (whether it was a fall or a cold find) I would like to gather all the science I could, perform the mapping and get any classifications done before anyone else came. I would probably invite people I knew and trusted to assist me. However, if it?s on BLM land, I could not stop anyone from searching the area ? if they discovered it on their own and did not follow me. So I guess it just boils down to what you think is the right thing to do for both the science and the study of meteorites and whether your own conscience may bother you at night. Just one other thing ? I think all of us as meteorite hunters should work together; it certainly would be more beneficial to both the hobby and the study of meteorites. Just my pennies worth, Greg S _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?: Search, add, and share the web?s latest sports videos. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports From MoritzKarl at t-online.de Sat Jul 18 13:42:03 2009 From: MoritzKarl at t-online.de (Moritz Karl) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:42:03 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: ebay auctions ending in 24 hours Message-ID: <1MSDv1-27NFgW0@fwd04.t-online.de> Sorry in case this posts twice. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Moritz Karl [mailto:MoritzKarl at t-online.de] Gesendet: Samstag, 18. Juli 2009 19:33 An: 'meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com' Betreff: AD: ebay auctions ending in 24 hours Dear List, I have 12 ebay auctions ending in less approx. 24 hours. They are still all at bargain prices! The specimens for sale are: - Benguerir ? 4.82 gram crusted slice - Chergach ? 2.0 gram slice - Dar al Gani 400 ? 0.07 gram lunar partslice - Dhofar 007 ? 4.88 gram polished partslice - Estherville ? 7.56 gram partslice - Fukang ? 3.09 gram partslice with a big crystal - St. Genevieve County ? 7.85 gram etched partslice - Gibeon Sphere ? 21.45 gram - Indarch ? 0.74 gram partslice - Silicated Iron from Algeria ? 7.65 gram etched partslice of NWA 5549 - Zaklodzie ? 1.01 gram partslice Too see all the auctions please follow this link: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/mos-meteorites__W0QQ_armrsZ1 Alternatively you can see all auctions through my website: http://www.m3t3orites.com/ebay.php Thank you for looking and Good Luck to anyone bidding. Regards Moritz Karl Germany Visit mo?s meteorites at http://www.m3t3orites.com From MoritzKarl at t-online.de Sat Jul 18 13:32:34 2009 From: MoritzKarl at t-online.de (Moritz Karl) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:32:34 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: ebay auctions ending in 24 hours Message-ID: <1MSDlq-0jrJhY0@fwd05.t-online.de> Dear List, I have 12 ebay auctions ending in less approx. 24 hours. They are still all at bargain prices! The specimens for sale are: - Benguerir - 4.82 gram crusted slice - Chergach - 2.0 gram slice - Dar al Gani 400 - 0.07 gram lunar partslice - Dhofar 007 - 4.88 gram polished partslice - Estherville - 7.56 gram partslice - Fukang - 3.09 gram partslice with a big crystal - St. Genevieve County - 7.85 gram etched partslice - Gibeon Sphere - 21.45 gram - Indarch - 0.74 gram partslice - Silicated Iron from Algeria - 7.65 gram etched partslice of NWA 5549 - Zaklodzie - 1.01 gram partslice Too see all the auctions please follow this link: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/mos-meteorites__W0QQ_armrsZ1 Alternatively you can see all auctions through my website: http://www.m3t3orites.com/ebay.php Thank you for looking and Good Luck to anyone bidding. Regards Moritz Karl Germany Visit mo's meteorites at http://www.m3t3orites.com From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sat Jul 18 13:55:45 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:55:45 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sensational disclosure: Steve Arnold's Car Unveiled! In-Reply-To: <899298.46086.qm@web43408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <638892.9778.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <899298.46086.qm@web43408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <009901ca07d0$facc85a0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> In my highly professional attempts and legitimate efforts to narrow the possible PA-fireball-strewnfield, I'm proud to be able to disclose an important, if not the most important parameter of this possible fall. I feel obligated to keep this information not secretly any longer, but to share it with the meteorite community of the World. Here to the left of that picture, taken and leaked to me by my network of informants under life-threatening circumstances, nothing else, than the conveyance of meteorite hunter Steve Arnold is shown on that authentic photo: http://www.meteoritemen.com/media/images/hi-res/atvs.jpg I know that this information is unpayable, but I'd say for the reason of fairness and for paying tribute to this masterpiece of investigation, I'll accept a payment of each member of the list of 400$ to my paypal-account. Man Joe, you aren't serious, are you? A good movie... http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare/treasure-sierra/47.11-warner.jpg that one too http://www.cinemaisdope.com/news/films/greed/greed.jpg watch them. -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Joe Kerchner Gesendet: Samstag, 18. Juli 2009 18:25 An: meteorite list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter CarlEsparza Micheal and list, I feel Carl did nothing wrong, He found the strewnfield the only way he could, and he found it. I would have to say he did his homework. I see some hypocritical statements, Who is to say it is not a "free strewnfield" ? When somebody finds a meteorite, they can not call dibs on the strewnfield, So if I find a meteorite I can say nobody get to hunt for more until I say it's ok? That sounds crazy to me, thats just not how things are done. Just cuz it fell in AZ it does not make it any different than anyother fall, most falls are in some meteorite hunbters "backyard/state" that does not give them the right to say when somebody gets to hunt it, if they keep the coordinance serete and somebody find the strewnfield, no matter how they find it, it is fair game for them to hunt and give the coordinance out to whom ever they want to. I feel Steve made a good point, no matter how you found his car, you used the location of his car to get som info from him, no matter what you say you were there for, I am pretty sure that you hunted that area eventually. Carl did NOTHING wrong, he found it fair and square, this is nobody's fall, nobody no matter who live near it. IMHO. Best, Joe Kerchner http://skyrockcafe.com From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sat Jul 18 14:24:06 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] What got you into meteorites? Message-ID: <596228.46410.qm@web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Why am I into meteorites? I started off as a sci fi fan, and a major Star Wars collector (AKA, a nerd) A friend of mine that owns a local rock and mineral store came across a meteorite for me and I picked it up. I then ventured onto the internet in search of information about it and discovered I could buy Campo crystals rather cheap... I was using tumbled earth rocks as a method to teach my daughter math and thought meteorites would be a neat way to help her learn to do math. The first person I bought from - Bob C. was really nice and I ended up buying alot of Campo individuals, a really nice half gram martian from him and other really nice meteorites - from there, my collection suddenly took on a life of its own. When I purchased my first Lunar (Dhofar 910) from Adam Hupe, I quickly saw that for me to grow my collection like I wanted (Im not that big into micros) I would need to buy in bulk to get better prices. I started searching around to see who could give me good deals for buying in bulk... In turn I went around to local shops such as comic book and rock/mineral stores and shows trying to sell the extra material. For me, meteorites were/are not really a money thing, but a way that allows me to offer a method of teaching that is "neat" for my daughter and also allows me to actually touch, smell and better understand space, where we came from and where we are going. What is more cool then holding a piece of the moon? We always see sensational hollywood movies such as Armageddon, Deep Impact etc... Meteorites allow us to actually hold what the blockbuster movies are all about - Meteorites! In the 3 years we have been involved with this "hobby" my daughter has now expressed a major interest in being a "meteorite scientist" when she grows up! At 7 years old, she can tell you what makes achondrites and chondrites different, she can go into detail about Irons and Pallasites and alot of other really cool stuff I wish I would have known at 7 years old. She is now also a collector also. So, while meteorites for us started off simply as a way to teach math to my little girl, we both have since learned a great deal and they have given me and her valuable time together doing something we both enjoy. Thats what got us into meteorites - a simple gift and a thought of a neat teaching tool! Greg C. From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Sat Jul 18 14:25:41 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:25:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Martin, explanation please. Message-ID: Martin, You're absolutely right about the symbolism in the painting. Van Leyden was not a medieval painter, he was a Northern Renaissance painter. The Medievals did almost exclusively sacred works, altar pieces, illuminated manuscripts, etc. Mainly because the Church was the only patron that could afford to pay them. Early and High Renaissance painters were still beholden to the Church because that's where the money was. Michaelangelo, Rafael and the Pope for example. All their best work was done for the Church. Van Leyden lived in a transitional period between Church and businessmen patronage. With the emergence of the Dutch merchant class, (an early flowering of capitalism), for the first time (outside of royalty and the court painters), you had lay people who could afford to buy fine art. This led to the development of genre painting, the depiction of everyday life. Artists were freed from the dominance of the subject matter and focused on style and form.The Golden Agers developed an incredibly realistic style. I love looking at the drops of water on grapes and the detailed flies in fruit still lifes. The realism of the Dutch Golden Age was only exceeded by the Photorealist Movement. Genre paintings were extremely popular in their day. They were seen as puzzles or riddles to be solved by the viewers. People studied and discussed them endlessly. They often contained inside jokes and contemporary references. They would poke fun at the high and mighty. The Rijksmuseum is full of excellent examples of genre painting. Delightful stuff, with people drinking, smoking, laughing, fighting, having sex, pooping, peeing, etc. Once they got away from all the religious, historical, mythological subjects, it opened up a whole new way of looking at things. I think this was the beginning of Modern Art. Phil Pieter de Hooch Whitmer From mlblood at cox.net Sat Jul 18 14:56:35 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:56:35 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I,m not sure who said this could be Ireland's first meteorite.... But isn't Bovedy ( April 25, 1969 Bovedy (L3) Londonderry, N. Ireland THROUGH STORE ROOF - from: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers2.html The first Ireland meteorite? Michael On 7/18/09 9:05 AM, "Pete Pete" wrote: > > Hi, all, > > I've definintely seen similar objects - melted aluminum cans from a camp fire. > > Cheers, > Pete > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:38:45 -0400 >> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com >> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com >> CC: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures >> >> The photo caption says it's not magnetic and is very light. So >> chances are (combined with the appearance), it's not a meteorite. >> It's an interesting little piece of metal that probably has a good >> story behind it, but I think it's terrestrial. >> >> Best regards, >> >> MikeG >> >> >> >> On 7/18/09, Matt Morgan wrote: >>> Hi Jim >>> Interesting object. It reminds me of a piece of bomb shrapnel. It does not >>> appear to be a meteorite, but maybe you could remove a tiny piece and do a >>> nickel test. >>> Matt >>> ------Original Message------ >>> From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> ReplyTo: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures >>> Sent: Jul 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>> >>> Hello list members >>> I've been contacted by a fellow in Dublin who found this >>> object years ago and has always been curious about whether it might be >>> a meteorite.He states that it is about 2cms long(roughly 7/8 of an inch >>> for our non-metric list members) and is light like aluminium.I have >>> asked him whether it was magnetic and he said 'no' . >>> Of course I should have asked him whether it was >>> attracted to a magnet, so I did and waiting for his reponse now.Because >>> this object is so small I've advised him that the best way to test may >>> be to file down a flat area and apply nitol to see if a pattern emerges. >>> Of course even this isn't 100% if it happened to be an ataxite. >>> I told him I thought it was unlikely that the object was >>> meteoritic in nature but that I would pose the question to the >>> meteorite list and see what the experts think.So if you could please >>> take a look and offer your opinions I'd appreciate it. >>> Jim Brady >>> >>> http://tr.im/sUQk >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >>> Matt Morgan >>> Mile High Meteorites >>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com >>> P.O. Box 151293 >>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> >> -- >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _________________________________________________________________ > Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat Jul 18 15:38:54 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:38:54 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: According to the Met Bulletin - Northern Ireland has 2 approved mets - Bovedy (L3 fall 1969) Crumlin (L5 fall 1902) Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites reveals an additional 5 meteorites for Ireland, in addition to the 2 for Northern Ireland - that makes a total of 7. Limerick (H5 fall, 1813) Dundrum (H5 fall, 1865) Mooresfort (H5 fall, 1810) Killeter (H6 fall, 1844) Pettiswood (unclassified fall, 1779) Some observations - The Irish have sharp eyes. Every approved meteorite from that nation is a witnessed fall. So, the original poster that inquired about his suspect specimen could be right in his assertion - there are no FINDS from Ireland, only falls. Best regards, MikeG On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: > I,m not sure who said this could be Ireland's first meteorite.... > But isn't Bovedy ( April 25, 1969 Bovedy (L3) Londonderry, N. Ireland > THROUGH STORE ROOF - from: > http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers2.html > The first Ireland meteorite? > Michael > > > On 7/18/09 9:05 AM, "Pete Pete" wrote: > >> >> Hi, all, >> >> I've definintely seen similar objects - melted aluminum cans from a camp >> fire. >> >> Cheers, >> Pete >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------- >>> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:38:45 -0400 >>> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com >>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com >>> CC: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? >>> pictures >>> >>> The photo caption says it's not magnetic and is very light. So >>> chances are (combined with the appearance), it's not a meteorite. >>> It's an interesting little piece of metal that probably has a good >>> story behind it, but I think it's terrestrial. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> MikeG >>> >>> >>> >>> On 7/18/09, Matt Morgan wrote: >>>> Hi Jim >>>> Interesting object. It reminds me of a piece of bomb shrapnel. It does >>>> not >>>> appear to be a meteorite, but maybe you could remove a tiny piece and do >>>> a >>>> nickel test. >>>> Matt >>>> ------Original Message------ >>>> From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> ReplyTo: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? >>>> pictures >>>> Sent: Jul 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>>> >>>> Hello list members >>>> I've been contacted by a fellow in Dublin who found this >>>> object years ago and has always been curious about whether it might be >>>> a meteorite.He states that it is about 2cms long(roughly 7/8 of an inch >>>> for our non-metric list members) and is light like aluminium.I have >>>> asked him whether it was magnetic and he said 'no' . >>>> Of course I should have asked him whether it was >>>> attracted to a magnet, so I did and waiting for his reponse now.Because >>>> this object is so small I've advised him that the best way to test may >>>> be to file down a flat area and apply nitol to see if a pattern emerges. >>>> Of course even this isn't 100% if it happened to be an ataxite. >>>> I told him I thought it was unlikely that the object was >>>> meteoritic in nature but that I would pose the question to the >>>> meteorite list and see what the experts think.So if you could please >>>> take a look and offer your opinions I'd appreciate it. >>>> Jim Brady >>>> >>>> http://tr.im/sUQk >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>>> >>>> Matt Morgan >>>> Mile High Meteorites >>>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com >>>> P.O. Box 151293 >>>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ......................................................... >>> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) >>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >>> .......................................................... >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. >> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Sat Jul 18 15:48:24 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:48:24 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? Message-ID: <1015D805BABE47C89522915062DB9F49@ET> Michael, Bovedy is in Northern Ireland, not Ireland, they're different countries. There are 6 official Fightin' Irish meteorites. (Plus 2 from Northern Ireland), though one of the 6 is from Ulster. ( What the Unionists call NI). The first was the observed fall of Pettiswood in 1779. It's an unclassified stone. (You would think they would have classified it by now!). Then there are the 3 Munster H5s (probably paired?), the 1865 Dundrum, the 1810 Mooresfort and the big 50 kg one found in 1813 near Limerick. There once was a meteorite from Munster, it was found by a drunken funster, he said to his whore, we could look for more, maybe over there in that dumpster? They lifted the lid a bit, and there in a snit were Farmer and Arnold fighting over it. (Sorry I couldn't resist.) Then you had the 1844 Killeter (Ulster), and the latest one found in 1999 near Leighlinbridge. Phil Luck 'O The Irish Whitmer From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Sat Jul 18 15:55:21 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:55:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? Message-ID: <8836C40D0C574798B1354286CD77FA11@ET> MikeG, You're right all the Irish meteorites are observed falls. What are the chances of 3 unpaired observed H5 falls all occurring in Munster Ireland in 1810, 1813, and again in 1865? Sounds incredible. Phil Whitmer From mojave_meteorites at cox.net Sat Jul 18 16:07:42 2009 From: mojave_meteorites at cox.net (Rob Matson) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:07:42 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting ethics In-Reply-To: <899298.46086.qm@web43408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Joe/List, > I feel Carl did nothing wrong, He found the strewnfield the > only way he could, and he found it. If by "wrong", you mean "illegal", then I would agree with you. But if you mean "ethical", you're starting to get into a gray area and a slippery slope. For instance, if Carl found his way by his own devices (e.g. witness interviews, geometric triangulation, etc.) to within a mile or two of the strewn field and discovered a parked car (or several parked cars) in an odd location with people walking around outside in 100+ degree temperatures, then that would be an independent discovery. No problem. But suppose he was only able to get within 10 miles of the right location, and happened to spot Jack, or Robert or Mike driving by while he was stopped for gas? 10 minutes later and gassed up, he takes the same road and keeps driving until he spots their parked vehicles. Still ethical? (100 square miles would have been a lot of ground to cover, with no confirmation that you were even close to the right location.) Suppose rather than merely driving the same road 10 minutes later he had actively followed them, remaining in visual range. Not illegal, but meteorite hunting skill is slowly being overtaken by espionage. Suppose Carl only knew that the fall was somewhere far enough southeast of Tucson that any hunter from the Tucson area would take I-10. He spots Mike entering the highway at an early hour and follows him the rest of the way (staying far enough behind so that his "tail" isn't spotted). Would you now feel as comfortable saying, "I feel Carl did nothing wrong, he found the strewnfield the only way he could"? If you're still fine with this, let's take it a bit further. Suppose you just don't have a head for math or geometry and don't know east from west. But you happen to find out where Mike lives. You have no idea when he's headed out and don't have the patience to wait for days at a freeway entrance ramp. Why leave anything to chance? Just stick a locator beacon on the underside of his vehicle and see where he goes from the comfort of your air- conditioned living room! (Of course, now you would have crossed the line from unethical to illegal.) My hyperbole is meant to illustrate that one man's "fair and square" may be another man's "cheating". In this particular case, Mike was put in a rather uncomfortable position because in poker parlance he unintentionally provided the "tell" that revealed the fall location to an outside party. How would you feel if you had been invited to assist in the recovery of a new fall under the condition that you not reveal that location to anyone else? Embarrassed? Angry? Could anyone blame you for feeling that way? After all, through no real fault of your own you have broken your promise to Jack. Jack is wise to the ways of the world, and certainly knew that involving anyone else (and in particular someone high-profile) was a calculated risk -- one that for a few weeks has certainly paid off in terms of getting accurate masses, find locations, and in situ photos. More finds than he would have made working alone. I would hope that anyone who finds their way to the fall site (preferably by non-cloak-and-dagger-means) would respect Jack's work as the P.I. on this fall and provide him with all find data. That means masses, coordinates, and in situ images. If you don't have a GPS unit or a digital camera, find someone who does before extracting a find; otherwise you are destroying scientific data. --Rob From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Sat Jul 18 16:24:42 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:24:42 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting ethics Message-ID: <27D3B82BA6FE411091C1FD0587F52BE3@ET> Rob, It sounds like you're describing a claim jumping dry gulcher to me. Phil Whitmer From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com Sat Jul 18 16:32:55 2009 From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:32:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting ethics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <381142.96341.qm@web43405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Rob and List, There is nothing "illegal" about the way Carl found it, Just cuz somebody makes the first find, no matter who it is does not own the strewnfield, not by any means, unless it is on his property. If not it is fair game, just cuz it is in AZ they feel the need to sccop it all up for them selves, thats not right, they can use any excuse they want, I see it as selfish, who is to say Carl will not get GPS coordinance and in situ photo? After the way Jack, Mike and the other acted, I would not give them any info on my finds, they are not doing the same for anyone else. This fall just shows the true colors of some of the hunters. Like you said, when Jack invited Farmer he knew there was a chance that somebody may find the strewnfield cuz he is so high profile. He took that chance and it happened. Carl did not putr a beakon on Mikes Car. There are no written Meteorite Hunter Rules or Ethics, Like mike said it is a blood sport. just MHO Best Wishes, Joe K ----- Original Message ---- From: Rob Matson To: Joe Kerchner ; meteorite list Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 3:07:42 PM Subject: Meteorite hunting ethics Hi Joe/List, > I feel Carl did nothing wrong, He found the strewnfield the > only way he could, and he found it. If by "wrong", you mean "illegal", then I would agree with you. But if you mean "ethical", you're starting to get into a gray area and a slippery slope. For instance, if Carl found his way by his own devices (e.g. witness interviews, geometric triangulation, etc.) to within a mile or two of the strewn field and discovered a parked car (or several parked cars) in an odd location with people walking around outside in 100+ degree temperatures, then that would be an independent discovery. No problem. But suppose he was only able to get within 10 miles of the right location, and happened to spot Jack, or Robert or Mike driving by while he was stopped for gas? 10 minutes later and gassed up, he takes the same road and keeps driving until he spots their parked vehicles. Still ethical? (100 square miles would have been a lot of ground to cover, with no confirmation that you were even close to the right location.) Suppose rather than merely driving the same road 10 minutes later he had actively followed them, remaining in visual range. Not illegal, but meteorite hunting skill is slowly being overtaken by espionage. Suppose Carl only knew that the fall was somewhere far enough southeast of Tucson that any hunter from the Tucson area would take I-10. He spots Mike entering the highway at an early hour and follows him the rest of the way (staying far enough behind so that his "tail" isn't spotted). Would you now feel as comfortable saying, "I feel Carl did nothing wrong, he found the strewnfield the only way he could"? If you're still fine with this, let's take it a bit further. Suppose you just don't have a head for math or geometry and don't know east from west. But you happen to find out where Mike lives. You have no idea when he's headed out and don't have the patience to wait for days at a freeway entrance ramp. Why leave anything to chance? Just stick a locator beacon on the underside of his vehicle and see where he goes from the comfort of your air- conditioned living room! (Of course, now you would have crossed the line from unethical to illegal.) My hyperbole is meant to illustrate that one man's "fair and square" may be another man's "cheating". In this particular case, Mike was put in a rather uncomfortable position because in poker parlance he unintentionally provided the "tell" that revealed the fall location to an outside party. How would you feel if you had been invited to assist in the recovery of a new fall under the condition that you not reveal that location to anyone else? Embarrassed? Angry? Could anyone blame you for feeling that way? After all, through no real fault of your own you have broken your promise to Jack. Jack is wise to the ways of the world, and certainly knew that involving anyone else (and in particular someone high-profile) was a calculated risk -- one that for a few weeks has certainly paid off in terms of getting accurate masses, find locations, and in situ photos. More finds than he would have made working alone. I would hope that anyone who finds their way to the fall site (preferably by non-cloak-and-dagger-means) would respect Jack's work as the P.I. on this fall and provide him with all find data. That means masses, coordinates, and in situ images. If you don't have a GPS unit or a digital camera, find someone who does before extracting a find; otherwise you are destroying scientific data. --Rob From mlblood at cox.net Sat Jul 18 17:02:07 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:02:07 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nice work, Mike, Where does one get a copy of " Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites?" Anyone out there want to sell me one or trade me one (I assume it Is out of print) RSVP Thanks, Michael On 7/18/09 12:38 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" wrote: > According to the Met Bulletin - > > Northern Ireland has 2 approved mets - > > Bovedy (L3 fall 1969) > Crumlin (L5 fall 1902) > > Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites reveals an additional 5 meteorites for > Ireland, in addition to the 2 for Northern Ireland - that makes a > total of 7. > > Limerick (H5 fall, 1813) > Dundrum (H5 fall, 1865) > Mooresfort (H5 fall, 1810) > Killeter (H6 fall, 1844) > Pettiswood (unclassified fall, 1779) > > Some observations - The Irish have sharp eyes. Every approved > meteorite from that nation is a witnessed fall. So, the original > poster that inquired about his suspect specimen could be right in his > assertion - there are no FINDS from Ireland, only falls. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > > On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: >> I,m not sure who said this could be Ireland's first meteorite.... >> But isn't Bovedy ( April 25, 1969 Bovedy (L3) Londonderry, N. Ireland >> THROUGH STORE ROOF - from: >> http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers2.html >> The first Ireland meteorite? >> Michael >> >> >> On 7/18/09 9:05 AM, "Pete Pete" wrote: >> >>> >>> Hi, all, >>> >>> I've definintely seen similar objects - melted aluminum cans from a camp >>> fire. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Pete >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------- >>>> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:38:45 -0400 >>>> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com >>>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com >>>> CC: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? >>>> pictures >>>> >>>> The photo caption says it's not magnetic and is very light. So >>>> chances are (combined with the appearance), it's not a meteorite. >>>> It's an interesting little piece of metal that probably has a good >>>> story behind it, but I think it's terrestrial. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> MikeG >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/18/09, Matt Morgan wrote: >>>>> Hi Jim >>>>> Interesting object. It reminds me of a piece of bomb shrapnel. It does >>>>> not >>>>> appear to be a meteorite, but maybe you could remove a tiny piece and do >>>>> a >>>>> nickel test. >>>>> Matt >>>>> ------Original Message------ >>>>> From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> ReplyTo: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? >>>>> pictures >>>>> Sent: Jul 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>>>> >>>>> Hello list members >>>>> I've been contacted by a fellow in Dublin who found this >>>>> object years ago and has always been curious about whether it might be >>>>> a meteorite.He states that it is about 2cms long(roughly 7/8 of an inch >>>>> for our non-metric list members) and is light like aluminium.I have >>>>> asked him whether it was magnetic and he said 'no' . >>>>> Of course I should have asked him whether it was >>>>> attracted to a magnet, so I did and waiting for his reponse now.Because >>>>> this object is so small I've advised him that the best way to test may >>>>> be to file down a flat area and apply nitol to see if a pattern emerges. >>>>> Of course even this isn't 100% if it happened to be an ataxite. >>>>> I told him I thought it was unlikely that the object was >>>>> meteoritic in nature but that I would pose the question to the >>>>> meteorite list and see what the experts think.So if you could please >>>>> take a look and offer your opinions I'd appreciate it. >>>>> Jim Brady >>>>> >>>>> http://tr.im/sUQk >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Matt Morgan >>>>> Mile High Meteorites >>>>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com >>>>> P.O. Box 151293 >>>>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ......................................................... >>>> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) >>>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >>>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >>>> .......................................................... >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. >>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047 >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> > From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Sat Jul 18 17:03:02 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] jalu in situ Message-ID: <309620.44904.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi list.I just got my 1.2 kilo individual of JALU,Libya.It is a beautiful stone. This was found in 2000 by?Alain Carion. But the really neat thing is,a picture of it in situ before it was dug out of the ground. How great is that?? I will have pics upon request to see it.You don't see much jalu around anymore. ?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat Jul 18 17:10:23 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:10:23 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mike, It's still in print, but it's fantastically-expensive and is rarely available used at discount. I paid over $220 for my copy. You can order from Amazon and some major book sellers. I got mine on eBay from a seller in the UK, with shipping I think the total was about $230. Beware buying used, because there is a CD-ROM in the back of the book (to install the whole shebang on your PC) and it's sometimes missing from the used copies. http://www.amazon.com/Catalogue-Meteorites-Monica-M-Grady/dp/0521663032/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247951296&sr=8-1 I consider it a must-have, along with Cosmic Debris, Rocks from Space, Meteorite Craters, MAPS, Meteorite Magazine, and Norton's Field Guide. Best regards, MikeG On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: > Nice work, Mike, > Where does one get a copy of " Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites?" > Anyone out there want to sell me one or trade me one (I assume it > Is out of print) > RSVP > Thanks, Michael > > > On 7/18/09 12:38 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" > wrote: > >> According to the Met Bulletin - >> >> Northern Ireland has 2 approved mets - >> >> Bovedy (L3 fall 1969) >> Crumlin (L5 fall 1902) >> >> Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites reveals an additional 5 meteorites for >> Ireland, in addition to the 2 for Northern Ireland - that makes a >> total of 7. >> >> Limerick (H5 fall, 1813) >> Dundrum (H5 fall, 1865) >> Mooresfort (H5 fall, 1810) >> Killeter (H6 fall, 1844) >> Pettiswood (unclassified fall, 1779) >> >> Some observations - The Irish have sharp eyes. Every approved >> meteorite from that nation is a witnessed fall. So, the original >> poster that inquired about his suspect specimen could be right in his >> assertion - there are no FINDS from Ireland, only falls. >> >> Best regards, >> >> MikeG >> >> >> >> On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: >>> I,m not sure who said this could be Ireland's first meteorite.... >>> But isn't Bovedy ( April 25, 1969 Bovedy (L3) Londonderry, N. Ireland >>> THROUGH STORE ROOF - from: >>> http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers2.html >>> The first Ireland meteorite? >>> Michael >>> >>> >>> On 7/18/09 9:05 AM, "Pete Pete" wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hi, all, >>>> >>>> I've definintely seen similar objects - melted aluminum cans from a camp >>>> fire. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Pete >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:38:45 -0400 >>>>> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com >>>>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com >>>>> CC: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? >>>>> pictures >>>>> >>>>> The photo caption says it's not magnetic and is very light. So >>>>> chances are (combined with the appearance), it's not a meteorite. >>>>> It's an interesting little piece of metal that probably has a good >>>>> story behind it, but I think it's terrestrial. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> MikeG >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7/18/09, Matt Morgan wrote: >>>>>> Hi Jim >>>>>> Interesting object. It reminds me of a piece of bomb shrapnel. It does >>>>>> not >>>>>> appear to be a meteorite, but maybe you could remove a tiny piece and >>>>>> do >>>>>> a >>>>>> nickel test. >>>>>> Matt >>>>>> ------Original Message------ >>>>>> From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>>>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> ReplyTo: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? >>>>>> pictures >>>>>> Sent: Jul 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello list members >>>>>> I've been contacted by a fellow in Dublin who found this >>>>>> object years ago and has always been curious about whether it might be >>>>>> a meteorite.He states that it is about 2cms long(roughly 7/8 of an >>>>>> inch >>>>>> for our non-metric list members) and is light like aluminium.I have >>>>>> asked him whether it was magnetic and he said 'no' . >>>>>> Of course I should have asked him whether it was >>>>>> attracted to a magnet, so I did and waiting for his reponse >>>>>> now.Because >>>>>> this object is so small I've advised him that the best way to test may >>>>>> be to file down a flat area and apply nitol to see if a pattern >>>>>> emerges. >>>>>> Of course even this isn't 100% if it happened to be an ataxite. >>>>>> I told him I thought it was unlikely that the object was >>>>>> meteoritic in nature but that I would pose the question to the >>>>>> meteorite list and see what the experts think.So if you could please >>>>>> take a look and offer your opinions I'd appreciate it. >>>>>> Jim Brady >>>>>> >>>>>> http://tr.im/sUQk >>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Matt Morgan >>>>>> Mile High Meteorites >>>>>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com >>>>>> P.O. Box 151293 >>>>>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA >>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ......................................................... >>>>> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) >>>>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >>>>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and >>>>> http://www.glassthrower.com >>>>> .......................................................... >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. >>>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047 >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From p.marmet at sunrise.ch Sat Jul 18 17:17:31 2009 From: p.marmet at sunrise.ch (Peter Marmet) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:17:31 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? In-Reply-To: <1015D805BABE47C89522915062DB9F49@ET> References: <1015D805BABE47C89522915062DB9F49@ET> Message-ID: <871799a20907181417m7d3f9c51r3dd9e2bfaf60fae1@mail.gmail.com> ...There once was a meteorite from Munster, it was found by a drunken funster... LOL! :-) Hi Phil and All, Here are a few picts of historic meteorites from England, Ireland, Northern Ireland and Scotland: http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id10.html Cheers, Peter From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jul 18 18:43:49 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:43:49 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting ethics In-Reply-To: References: <899298.46086.qm@web43408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 13:07:42 -0700, you wrote: >If you're still fine with this, let's take it a bit further. >Suppose you just don't have a head for math or geometry and don't >know east from west. But you happen to find out where Mike lives. >You have no idea when he's headed out and don't have the patience >to wait for days at a freeway entrance ramp. Why leave anything >to chance? Just stick a locator beacon on the underside of his >vehicle and see where he goes from the comfort of your air- >conditioned living room! (Of course, now you would have crossed >the line from unethical to illegal.) > True story: I once shot Mike Farmer with a tranquilizer dart and fitted him with a radio collar. Unfortunately the battery died before the next fall. But it was worth it to see him rubbing against trees in the vain attempt to dislodge the collar! Poor confused creature... From majbaermann at web.de Sat Jul 18 17:39:36 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:39:36 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? References: <1015D805BABE47C89522915062DB9F49@ET> <871799a20907181417m7d3f9c51r3dd9e2bfaf60fae1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <683FD1C2FDA24494A7666A2389B5B74C@thinkcentre> Hello Peter, that's a wonderful collection and a fine documentary work as well. Congratulations. For me it's always amazing how much the shape of a meteorite differs depending from perspective - somehow a cubistic quality. The Wold Cottage mass on James Sowerby's painting, and on the British Museum postcard - hard to believe it's the same meteorite. Regards, Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Marmet" To: Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? > ...There once was a meteorite from Munster, it was found by a drunken > funster... > > LOL! :-) > > > Hi Phil and All, > > Here are a few picts of historic meteorites from England, Ireland, > Northern Ireland and Scotland: > > http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id10.html > > Cheers, > Peter > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mlblood at cox.net Sat Jul 18 17:48:00 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:48:00 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, I get it, it is the Catalog of Meteorites - I have one, of course. Thanks, Michael On 7/18/09 2:10 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" wrote: > Hi Mike, > > It's still in print, but it's fantastically-expensive and is rarely > available used at discount. I paid over $220 for my copy. > > You can order from Amazon and some major book sellers. I got mine on > eBay from a seller in the UK, with shipping I think the total was > about $230. Beware buying used, because there is a CD-ROM in the back > of the book (to install the whole shebang on your PC) and it's > sometimes missing from the used copies. > > http://www.amazon.com/Catalogue-Meteorites-Monica-M-Grady/dp/0521663032/ref=sr > _1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247951296&sr=8-1 > > I consider it a must-have, along with Cosmic Debris, Rocks from Space, > Meteorite Craters, MAPS, Meteorite Magazine, and Norton's Field Guide. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > > > On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: >> Nice work, Mike, >> Where does one get a copy of " Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites?" >> Anyone out there want to sell me one or trade me one (I assume it >> Is out of print) >> RSVP >> Thanks, Michael >> >> >> On 7/18/09 12:38 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" >> wrote: >> >>> According to the Met Bulletin - >>> >>> Northern Ireland has 2 approved mets - >>> >>> Bovedy (L3 fall 1969) >>> Crumlin (L5 fall 1902) >>> >>> Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites reveals an additional 5 meteorites for >>> Ireland, in addition to the 2 for Northern Ireland - that makes a >>> total of 7. >>> >>> Limerick (H5 fall, 1813) >>> Dundrum (H5 fall, 1865) >>> Mooresfort (H5 fall, 1810) >>> Killeter (H6 fall, 1844) >>> Pettiswood (unclassified fall, 1779) >>> >>> Some observations - The Irish have sharp eyes. Every approved >>> meteorite from that nation is a witnessed fall. So, the original >>> poster that inquired about his suspect specimen could be right in his >>> assertion - there are no FINDS from Ireland, only falls. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> MikeG >>> >>> >>> >>> On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: >>>> I,m not sure who said this could be Ireland's first meteorite.... >>>> But isn't Bovedy ( April 25, 1969 Bovedy (L3) Londonderry, N. Ireland >>>> THROUGH STORE ROOF - from: >>>> http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers2.html >>>> The first Ireland meteorite? >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/18/09 9:05 AM, "Pete Pete" wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi, all, >>>>> >>>>> I've definintely seen similar objects - melted aluminum cans from a camp >>>>> fire. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Pete >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>>> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:38:45 -0400 >>>>>> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com >>>>>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com >>>>>> CC: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? >>>>>> pictures >>>>>> >>>>>> The photo caption says it's not magnetic and is very light. So >>>>>> chances are (combined with the appearance), it's not a meteorite. >>>>>> It's an interesting little piece of metal that probably has a good >>>>>> story behind it, but I think it's terrestrial. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> MikeG >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/18/09, Matt Morgan wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Jim >>>>>>> Interesting object. It reminds me of a piece of bomb shrapnel. It does >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> appear to be a meteorite, but maybe you could remove a tiny piece and >>>>>>> do >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> nickel test. >>>>>>> Matt >>>>>>> ------Original Message------ >>>>>>> From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>>>>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> ReplyTo: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? >>>>>>> pictures >>>>>>> Sent: Jul 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello list members >>>>>>> I've been contacted by a fellow in Dublin who found this >>>>>>> object years ago and has always been curious about whether it might be >>>>>>> a meteorite.He states that it is about 2cms long(roughly 7/8 of an >>>>>>> inch >>>>>>> for our non-metric list members) and is light like aluminium.I have >>>>>>> asked him whether it was magnetic and he said 'no' . >>>>>>> Of course I should have asked him whether it was >>>>>>> attracted to a magnet, so I did and waiting for his reponse >>>>>>> now.Because >>>>>>> this object is so small I've advised him that the best way to test may >>>>>>> be to file down a flat area and apply nitol to see if a pattern >>>>>>> emerges. >>>>>>> Of course even this isn't 100% if it happened to be an ataxite. >>>>>>> I told him I thought it was unlikely that the object was >>>>>>> meteoritic in nature but that I would pose the question to the >>>>>>> meteorite list and see what the experts think.So if you could please >>>>>>> take a look and offer your opinions I'd appreciate it. >>>>>>> Jim Brady >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://tr.im/sUQk >>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Matt Morgan >>>>>>> Mile High Meteorites >>>>>>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com >>>>>>> P.O. Box 151293 >>>>>>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA >>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> ......................................................... >>>>>> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) >>>>>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >>>>>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and >>>>>> http://www.glassthrower.com >>>>>> .......................................................... >>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. >>>>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047 >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> > From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat Jul 18 17:52:32 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:52:32 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Michael, Grady edited the later versions of the Catalogue - the earlier versions were edited by someone else, I don't recall exactly who. Was it Sears? The Catalogue is new to me - I had heard of it and read about it and longed for it, but only recently bought my own copy. It's been an invaluable reference for the nerd in me - my wife looked at it briefly and declared it was the driest reading she had ever seen. LOL To me, it's a page-turner. I'm slowly working my way through it, reading every entry. :) The software is a great bonus as well. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: > OK, > I get it, it is the Catalog of Meteorites - I have one, of course. > Thanks, Michael > > > On 7/18/09 2:10 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" > wrote: > >> Hi Mike, >> >> It's still in print, but it's fantastically-expensive and is rarely >> available used at discount. I paid over $220 for my copy. >> >> You can order from Amazon and some major book sellers. I got mine on >> eBay from a seller in the UK, with shipping I think the total was >> about $230. Beware buying used, because there is a CD-ROM in the back >> of the book (to install the whole shebang on your PC) and it's >> sometimes missing from the used copies. >> >> http://www.amazon.com/Catalogue-Meteorites-Monica-M-Grady/dp/0521663032/ref=sr >> _1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247951296&sr=8-1 >> >> I consider it a must-have, along with Cosmic Debris, Rocks from Space, >> Meteorite Craters, MAPS, Meteorite Magazine, and Norton's Field Guide. >> >> Best regards, >> >> MikeG >> >> >> >> >> On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: >>> Nice work, Mike, >>> Where does one get a copy of " Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites?" >>> Anyone out there want to sell me one or trade me one (I assume it >>> Is out of print) >>> RSVP >>> Thanks, Michael >>> >>> >>> On 7/18/09 12:38 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> According to the Met Bulletin - >>>> >>>> Northern Ireland has 2 approved mets - >>>> >>>> Bovedy (L3 fall 1969) >>>> Crumlin (L5 fall 1902) >>>> >>>> Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites reveals an additional 5 meteorites for >>>> Ireland, in addition to the 2 for Northern Ireland - that makes a >>>> total of 7. >>>> >>>> Limerick (H5 fall, 1813) >>>> Dundrum (H5 fall, 1865) >>>> Mooresfort (H5 fall, 1810) >>>> Killeter (H6 fall, 1844) >>>> Pettiswood (unclassified fall, 1779) >>>> >>>> Some observations - The Irish have sharp eyes. Every approved >>>> meteorite from that nation is a witnessed fall. So, the original >>>> poster that inquired about his suspect specimen could be right in his >>>> assertion - there are no FINDS from Ireland, only falls. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> MikeG >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: >>>>> I,m not sure who said this could be Ireland's first meteorite.... >>>>> But isn't Bovedy ( April 25, 1969 Bovedy (L3) Londonderry, N. >>>>> Ireland >>>>> THROUGH STORE ROOF - from: >>>>> http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers2.html >>>>> The first Ireland meteorite? >>>>> Michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7/18/09 9:05 AM, "Pete Pete" wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I've definintely seen similar objects - melted aluminum cans from a >>>>>> camp >>>>>> fire. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Pete >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>>>> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:38:45 -0400 >>>>>>> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com >>>>>>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com >>>>>>> CC: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? >>>>>>> pictures >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The photo caption says it's not magnetic and is very light. So >>>>>>> chances are (combined with the appearance), it's not a meteorite. >>>>>>> It's an interesting little piece of metal that probably has a good >>>>>>> story behind it, but I think it's terrestrial. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> MikeG >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/18/09, Matt Morgan wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Jim >>>>>>>> Interesting object. It reminds me of a piece of bomb shrapnel. It >>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> appear to be a meteorite, but maybe you could remove a tiny piece >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> nickel test. >>>>>>>> Matt >>>>>>>> ------Original Message------ >>>>>>>> From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>>>>>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> ReplyTo: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? >>>>>>>> pictures >>>>>>>> Sent: Jul 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hello list members >>>>>>>> I've been contacted by a fellow in Dublin who found this >>>>>>>> object years ago and has always been curious about whether it might >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> a meteorite.He states that it is about 2cms long(roughly 7/8 of an >>>>>>>> inch >>>>>>>> for our non-metric list members) and is light like aluminium.I have >>>>>>>> asked him whether it was magnetic and he said 'no' . >>>>>>>> Of course I should have asked him whether it was >>>>>>>> attracted to a magnet, so I did and waiting for his reponse >>>>>>>> now.Because >>>>>>>> this object is so small I've advised him that the best way to test >>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>> be to file down a flat area and apply nitol to see if a pattern >>>>>>>> emerges. >>>>>>>> Of course even this isn't 100% if it happened to be an ataxite. >>>>>>>> I told him I thought it was unlikely that the object was >>>>>>>> meteoritic in nature but that I would pose the question to the >>>>>>>> meteorite list and see what the experts think.So if you could please >>>>>>>> take a look and offer your opinions I'd appreciate it. >>>>>>>> Jim Brady >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://tr.im/sUQk >>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Matt Morgan >>>>>>>> Mile High Meteorites >>>>>>>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com >>>>>>>> P.O. Box 151293 >>>>>>>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA >>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> ......................................................... >>>>>>> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) >>>>>>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >>>>>>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and >>>>>>> http://www.glassthrower.com >>>>>>> .......................................................... >>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. >>>>>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047 >>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From mikewren at gilanet.com Sat Jul 18 17:59:02 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:59:02 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8225D476-850C-447C-A185-97D1B303679F@gilanet.com> After two complete readings you will enter a new phase or level of meteorites... it is automatic. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On Jul 18, 2009, at 2:52 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > Hi Michael, > > Grady edited the later versions of the Catalogue - the earlier > versions were edited by someone else, I don't recall exactly who. Was > it Sears? > > The Catalogue is new to me - I had heard of it and read about it and > longed for it, but only recently bought my own copy. It's been an > invaluable reference for the nerd in me - my wife looked at it briefly > and declared it was the driest reading she had ever seen. LOL > > To me, it's a page-turner. I'm slowly working my way through it, > reading every entry. :) > > The software is a great bonus as well. > > Best regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: >> OK, >> I get it, it is the Catalog of Meteorites - I have one, of >> course. >> Thanks, Michael >> >> >> On 7/18/09 2:10 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" > > >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Mike, >>> >>> It's still in print, but it's fantastically-expensive and is rarely >>> available used at discount. I paid over $220 for my copy. >>> >>> You can order from Amazon and some major book sellers. I got mine >>> on >>> eBay from a seller in the UK, with shipping I think the total was >>> about $230. Beware buying used, because there is a CD-ROM in the >>> back >>> of the book (to install the whole shebang on your PC) and it's >>> sometimes missing from the used copies. >>> >>> http://www.amazon.com/Catalogue-Meteorites-Monica-M-Grady/dp/0521663032/ref=sr >>> _1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247951296&sr=8-1 >>> >>> I consider it a must-have, along with Cosmic Debris, Rocks from >>> Space, >>> Meteorite Craters, MAPS, Meteorite Magazine, and Norton's Field >>> Guide. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> MikeG >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: >>>> Nice work, Mike, >>>> Where does one get a copy of " Grady's Catalogue of >>>> Meteorites?" >>>> Anyone out there want to sell me one or trade me one (I >>>> assume it >>>> Is out of print) >>>> RSVP >>>> Thanks, Michael >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/18/09 12:38 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> According to the Met Bulletin - >>>>> >>>>> Northern Ireland has 2 approved mets - >>>>> >>>>> Bovedy (L3 fall 1969) >>>>> Crumlin (L5 fall 1902) >>>>> >>>>> Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites reveals an additional 5 >>>>> meteorites for >>>>> Ireland, in addition to the 2 for Northern Ireland - that makes a >>>>> total of 7. >>>>> >>>>> Limerick (H5 fall, 1813) >>>>> Dundrum (H5 fall, 1865) >>>>> Mooresfort (H5 fall, 1810) >>>>> Killeter (H6 fall, 1844) >>>>> Pettiswood (unclassified fall, 1779) >>>>> >>>>> Some observations - The Irish have sharp eyes. Every approved >>>>> meteorite from that nation is a witnessed fall. So, the original >>>>> poster that inquired about his suspect specimen could be right >>>>> in his >>>>> assertion - there are no FINDS from Ireland, only falls. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> MikeG >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: >>>>>> I,m not sure who said this could be Ireland's first meteorite.... >>>>>> But isn't Bovedy ( April 25, 1969 Bovedy (L3) Londonderry, N. >>>>>> Ireland >>>>>> THROUGH STORE ROOF - from: >>>>>> http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers2.html >>>>>> The first Ireland meteorite? >>>>>> Michael >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/18/09 9:05 AM, "Pete Pete" wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've definintely seen similar objects - melted aluminum cans >>>>>>> from a >>>>>>> camp >>>>>>> fire. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Pete >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:38:45 -0400 >>>>>>>> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com >>>>>>>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com >>>>>>>> CC: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first >>>>>>>> meteorite find? >>>>>>>> pictures >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The photo caption says it's not magnetic and is very light. So >>>>>>>> chances are (combined with the appearance), it's not a >>>>>>>> meteorite. >>>>>>>> It's an interesting little piece of metal that probably has a >>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>> story behind it, but I think it's terrestrial. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> MikeG >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/18/09, Matt Morgan wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi Jim >>>>>>>>> Interesting object. It reminds me of a piece of bomb >>>>>>>>> shrapnel. It >>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> appear to be a meteorite, but maybe you could remove a tiny >>>>>>>>> piece >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> nickel test. >>>>>>>>> Matt >>>>>>>>> ------Original Message------ >>>>>>>>> From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>>>>>>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> ReplyTo: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite >>>>>>>>> find? >>>>>>>>> pictures >>>>>>>>> Sent: Jul 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello list members >>>>>>>>> I've been contacted by a fellow in Dublin who found this >>>>>>>>> object years ago and has always been curious about whether >>>>>>>>> it might >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> a meteorite.He states that it is about 2cms long(roughly 7/8 >>>>>>>>> of an >>>>>>>>> inch >>>>>>>>> for our non-metric list members) and is light like >>>>>>>>> aluminium.I have >>>>>>>>> asked him whether it was magnetic and he said 'no' . >>>>>>>>> Of course I should have asked him whether it was >>>>>>>>> attracted to a magnet, so I did and waiting for his reponse >>>>>>>>> now.Because >>>>>>>>> this object is so small I've advised him that the best way >>>>>>>>> to test >>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>> be to file down a flat area and apply nitol to see if a >>>>>>>>> pattern >>>>>>>>> emerges. >>>>>>>>> Of course even this isn't 100% if it happened to be an >>>>>>>>> ataxite. >>>>>>>>> I told him I thought it was unlikely that the object was >>>>>>>>> meteoritic in nature but that I would pose the question to the >>>>>>>>> meteorite list and see what the experts think.So if you >>>>>>>>> could please >>>>>>>>> take a look and offer your opinions I'd appreciate it. >>>>>>>>> Jim Brady >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://tr.im/sUQk >>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Matt Morgan >>>>>>>>> Mile High Meteorites >>>>>>>>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com >>>>>>>>> P.O. Box 151293 >>>>>>>>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA >>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> ......................................................... >>>>>>>> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) >>>>>>>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >>>>>>>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and >>>>>>>> http://www.glassthrower.com >>>>>>>> .......................................................... >>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>> Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. >>>>>>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047 >>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat Jul 18 18:03:07 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 18:03:07 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures In-Reply-To: <8225D476-850C-447C-A185-97D1B303679F@gilanet.com> References: <8225D476-850C-447C-A185-97D1B303679F@gilanet.com> Message-ID: Hi Michael, This is going to sound extra-nerdy, but is the new level of meteorites like going up levels in a role playing game or Dungeons and Dragons? For each time you read through the Magick Meteorite Tome, you gain one level in meteoritics skill. LOL I wish all of the entries had more extensive background information or anecdotes, but the ones that do are well worth the read. It's fascinating to read some of the entries about obscure falls and finds I have never heard of or seen for sale on the open market. I don't know how I ever lived without this book. I refer to it frequently and it's a good reference to look up some older meteorites mentioned in MAPS abstracts. Best regards, MikeG On 7/18/09, michael cottingham wrote: > After two complete readings you will enter a new phase or level of > meteorites... it is automatic. > > Best Wishes > > Michael Cottingham > On Jul 18, 2009, at 2:52 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > >> Hi Michael, >> >> Grady edited the later versions of the Catalogue - the earlier >> versions were edited by someone else, I don't recall exactly who. Was >> it Sears? >> >> The Catalogue is new to me - I had heard of it and read about it and >> longed for it, but only recently bought my own copy. It's been an >> invaluable reference for the nerd in me - my wife looked at it briefly >> and declared it was the driest reading she had ever seen. LOL >> >> To me, it's a page-turner. I'm slowly working my way through it, >> reading every entry. :) >> >> The software is a great bonus as well. >> >> Best regards and clear skies, >> >> MikeG >> >> >> On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: >>> OK, >>> I get it, it is the Catalog of Meteorites - I have one, of >>> course. >>> Thanks, Michael >>> >>> >>> On 7/18/09 2:10 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" >> >>> > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Mike, >>>> >>>> It's still in print, but it's fantastically-expensive and is rarely >>>> available used at discount. I paid over $220 for my copy. >>>> >>>> You can order from Amazon and some major book sellers. I got mine >>>> on >>>> eBay from a seller in the UK, with shipping I think the total was >>>> about $230. Beware buying used, because there is a CD-ROM in the >>>> back >>>> of the book (to install the whole shebang on your PC) and it's >>>> sometimes missing from the used copies. >>>> >>>> http://www.amazon.com/Catalogue-Meteorites-Monica-M-Grady/dp/0521663032/ref=sr >>>> _1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247951296&sr=8-1 >>>> >>>> I consider it a must-have, along with Cosmic Debris, Rocks from >>>> Space, >>>> Meteorite Craters, MAPS, Meteorite Magazine, and Norton's Field >>>> Guide. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> MikeG >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: >>>>> Nice work, Mike, >>>>> Where does one get a copy of " Grady's Catalogue of >>>>> Meteorites?" >>>>> Anyone out there want to sell me one or trade me one (I >>>>> assume it >>>>> Is out of print) >>>>> RSVP >>>>> Thanks, Michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7/18/09 12:38 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> According to the Met Bulletin - >>>>>> >>>>>> Northern Ireland has 2 approved mets - >>>>>> >>>>>> Bovedy (L3 fall 1969) >>>>>> Crumlin (L5 fall 1902) >>>>>> >>>>>> Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites reveals an additional 5 >>>>>> meteorites for >>>>>> Ireland, in addition to the 2 for Northern Ireland - that makes a >>>>>> total of 7. >>>>>> >>>>>> Limerick (H5 fall, 1813) >>>>>> Dundrum (H5 fall, 1865) >>>>>> Mooresfort (H5 fall, 1810) >>>>>> Killeter (H6 fall, 1844) >>>>>> Pettiswood (unclassified fall, 1779) >>>>>> >>>>>> Some observations - The Irish have sharp eyes. Every approved >>>>>> meteorite from that nation is a witnessed fall. So, the original >>>>>> poster that inquired about his suspect specimen could be right >>>>>> in his >>>>>> assertion - there are no FINDS from Ireland, only falls. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>> >>>>>> MikeG >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: >>>>>>> I,m not sure who said this could be Ireland's first meteorite.... >>>>>>> But isn't Bovedy ( April 25, 1969 Bovedy (L3) Londonderry, N. >>>>>>> Ireland >>>>>>> THROUGH STORE ROOF - from: >>>>>>> http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers2.html >>>>>>> The first Ireland meteorite? >>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/18/09 9:05 AM, "Pete Pete" wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've definintely seen similar objects - melted aluminum cans >>>>>>>> from a >>>>>>>> camp >>>>>>>> fire. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>> Pete >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:38:45 -0400 >>>>>>>>> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com >>>>>>>>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com >>>>>>>>> CC: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first >>>>>>>>> meteorite find? >>>>>>>>> pictures >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The photo caption says it's not magnetic and is very light. So >>>>>>>>> chances are (combined with the appearance), it's not a >>>>>>>>> meteorite. >>>>>>>>> It's an interesting little piece of metal that probably has a >>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>> story behind it, but I think it's terrestrial. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> MikeG >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 7/18/09, Matt Morgan wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi Jim >>>>>>>>>> Interesting object. It reminds me of a piece of bomb >>>>>>>>>> shrapnel. It >>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> appear to be a meteorite, but maybe you could remove a tiny >>>>>>>>>> piece >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> nickel test. >>>>>>>>>> Matt >>>>>>>>>> ------Original Message------ >>>>>>>>>> From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>>>>>>>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>> ReplyTo: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>>>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite >>>>>>>>>> find? >>>>>>>>>> pictures >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Jul 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello list members >>>>>>>>>> I've been contacted by a fellow in Dublin who found this >>>>>>>>>> object years ago and has always been curious about whether >>>>>>>>>> it might >>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>> a meteorite.He states that it is about 2cms long(roughly 7/8 >>>>>>>>>> of an >>>>>>>>>> inch >>>>>>>>>> for our non-metric list members) and is light like >>>>>>>>>> aluminium.I have >>>>>>>>>> asked him whether it was magnetic and he said 'no' . >>>>>>>>>> Of course I should have asked him whether it was >>>>>>>>>> attracted to a magnet, so I did and waiting for his reponse >>>>>>>>>> now.Because >>>>>>>>>> this object is so small I've advised him that the best way >>>>>>>>>> to test >>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>>> be to file down a flat area and apply nitol to see if a >>>>>>>>>> pattern >>>>>>>>>> emerges. >>>>>>>>>> Of course even this isn't 100% if it happened to be an >>>>>>>>>> ataxite. >>>>>>>>>> I told him I thought it was unlikely that the object was >>>>>>>>>> meteoritic in nature but that I would pose the question to the >>>>>>>>>> meteorite list and see what the experts think.So if you >>>>>>>>>> could please >>>>>>>>>> take a look and offer your opinions I'd appreciate it. >>>>>>>>>> Jim Brady >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> http://tr.im/sUQk >>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Matt Morgan >>>>>>>>>> Mile High Meteorites >>>>>>>>>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com >>>>>>>>>> P.O. Box 151293 >>>>>>>>>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA >>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> ......................................................... >>>>>>>>> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) >>>>>>>>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >>>>>>>>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and >>>>>>>>> http://www.glassthrower.com >>>>>>>>> .......................................................... >>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. >>>>>>>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047 >>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sat Jul 18 17:56:43 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 18 Jul 2009 21:56:43 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Catalogues Message-ID: Mike G. wrote: "the earlier versions were edited by someone else..." GRAHAM A.L., BEVAN A.W.R. and HUTCHISON R. (1985) Catalogue of Meteorites, 4th Ed. Univ. Arizona Press, Tucson, Arizona. 460 pp.). HEY M.H. (1966) Catalogue of Meteorites, 3rd edition, London, 1966, pp. 637. Cheers, Bernd From mikewren at gilanet.com Sat Jul 18 18:12:05 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:12:05 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite find? pictures In-Reply-To: References: <8225D476-850C-447C-A185-97D1B303679F@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <61875BC5-E2E6-4E32-92F0-A73CF6EDA9AA@gilanet.com> Hello, It is something like that- Dungeons & Dragons game, however, with the Catalog there are leads within the tome and after you see the leads, you can really find the treasure. I am also being very serious. There are leads within the catalog that can help people recover a lot of meteorites. Before all the other books that people have today, the catalog was really all we had to work with. It was the source of great wisdom and has taken me on many great adventures. Although, I can't say because I still might follow up on them, there are at least 15 strewn fields or possible strewn fields that have not been tapped or recently visited. Best Wishes Michael On Jul 18, 2009, at 3:03 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > Hi Michael, > > This is going to sound extra-nerdy, but is the new level of meteorites > like going up levels in a role playing game or Dungeons and Dragons? > For each time you read through the Magick Meteorite Tome, you gain one > level in meteoritics skill. LOL > > I wish all of the entries had more extensive background information or > anecdotes, but the ones that do are well worth the read. It's > fascinating to read some of the entries about obscure falls and finds > I have never heard of or seen for sale on the open market. I don't > know how I ever lived without this book. I refer to it frequently and > it's a good reference to look up some older meteorites mentioned in > MAPS abstracts. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > On 7/18/09, michael cottingham wrote: >> After two complete readings you will enter a new phase or level of >> meteorites... it is automatic. >> >> Best Wishes >> >> Michael Cottingham >> On Jul 18, 2009, at 2:52 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: >> >>> Hi Michael, >>> >>> Grady edited the later versions of the Catalogue - the earlier >>> versions were edited by someone else, I don't recall exactly who. >>> Was >>> it Sears? >>> >>> The Catalogue is new to me - I had heard of it and read about it and >>> longed for it, but only recently bought my own copy. It's been an >>> invaluable reference for the nerd in me - my wife looked at it >>> briefly >>> and declared it was the driest reading she had ever seen. LOL >>> >>> To me, it's a page-turner. I'm slowly working my way through it, >>> reading every entry. :) >>> >>> The software is a great bonus as well. >>> >>> Best regards and clear skies, >>> >>> MikeG >>> >>> >>> On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: >>>> OK, >>>> I get it, it is the Catalog of Meteorites - I have one, of >>>> course. >>>> Thanks, Michael >>>> >>>> >>>> On 7/18/09 2:10 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" >>> >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Mike, >>>>> >>>>> It's still in print, but it's fantastically-expensive and is >>>>> rarely >>>>> available used at discount. I paid over $220 for my copy. >>>>> >>>>> You can order from Amazon and some major book sellers. I got mine >>>>> on >>>>> eBay from a seller in the UK, with shipping I think the total was >>>>> about $230. Beware buying used, because there is a CD-ROM in the >>>>> back >>>>> of the book (to install the whole shebang on your PC) and it's >>>>> sometimes missing from the used copies. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Catalogue-Meteorites-Monica-M-Grady/dp/0521663032/ref=sr >>>>> _1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247951296&sr=8-1 >>>>> >>>>> I consider it a must-have, along with Cosmic Debris, Rocks from >>>>> Space, >>>>> Meteorite Craters, MAPS, Meteorite Magazine, and Norton's Field >>>>> Guide. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> >>>>> MikeG >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: >>>>>> Nice work, Mike, >>>>>> Where does one get a copy of " Grady's Catalogue of >>>>>> Meteorites?" >>>>>> Anyone out there want to sell me one or trade me one (I >>>>>> assume it >>>>>> Is out of print) >>>>>> RSVP >>>>>> Thanks, Michael >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 7/18/09 12:38 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> According to the Met Bulletin - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Northern Ireland has 2 approved mets - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Bovedy (L3 fall 1969) >>>>>>> Crumlin (L5 fall 1902) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Grady's Catalogue of Meteorites reveals an additional 5 >>>>>>> meteorites for >>>>>>> Ireland, in addition to the 2 for Northern Ireland - that >>>>>>> makes a >>>>>>> total of 7. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Limerick (H5 fall, 1813) >>>>>>> Dundrum (H5 fall, 1865) >>>>>>> Mooresfort (H5 fall, 1810) >>>>>>> Killeter (H6 fall, 1844) >>>>>>> Pettiswood (unclassified fall, 1779) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Some observations - The Irish have sharp eyes. Every approved >>>>>>> meteorite from that nation is a witnessed fall. So, the >>>>>>> original >>>>>>> poster that inquired about his suspect specimen could be right >>>>>>> in his >>>>>>> assertion - there are no FINDS from Ireland, only falls. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> MikeG >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/18/09, Michael Blood wrote: >>>>>>>> I,m not sure who said this could be Ireland's first >>>>>>>> meteorite.... >>>>>>>> But isn't Bovedy ( April 25, 1969 Bovedy (L3) >>>>>>>> Londonderry, N. >>>>>>>> Ireland >>>>>>>> THROUGH STORE ROOF - from: >>>>>>>> http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers2.html >>>>>>>> The first Ireland meteorite? >>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/18/09 9:05 AM, "Pete Pete" wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, all, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I've definintely seen similar objects - melted aluminum cans >>>>>>>>> from a >>>>>>>>> camp >>>>>>>>> fire. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Pete >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 10:38:45 -0400 >>>>>>>>>> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> To: mail at mhmeteorites.com >>>>>>>>>> CC: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk; meteorite- >>>>>>>>>> list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first >>>>>>>>>> meteorite find? >>>>>>>>>> pictures >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The photo caption says it's not magnetic and is very light. >>>>>>>>>> So >>>>>>>>>> chances are (combined with the appearance), it's not a >>>>>>>>>> meteorite. >>>>>>>>>> It's an interesting little piece of metal that probably has a >>>>>>>>>> good >>>>>>>>>> story behind it, but I think it's terrestrial. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Best regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> MikeG >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 7/18/09, Matt Morgan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Jim >>>>>>>>>>> Interesting object. It reminds me of a piece of bomb >>>>>>>>>>> shrapnel. It >>>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> appear to be a meteorite, but maybe you could remove a tiny >>>>>>>>>>> piece >>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>> nickel test. >>>>>>>>>>> Matt >>>>>>>>>>> ------Original Message------ >>>>>>>>>>> From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>>>>>>>>> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>>> ReplyTo: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Is this Irelands first meteorite >>>>>>>>>>> find? >>>>>>>>>>> pictures >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Jul 18, 2009 4:05 AM >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello list members >>>>>>>>>>> I've been contacted by a fellow in Dublin who found this >>>>>>>>>>> object years ago and has always been curious about whether >>>>>>>>>>> it might >>>>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>>>> a meteorite.He states that it is about 2cms long(roughly 7/8 >>>>>>>>>>> of an >>>>>>>>>>> inch >>>>>>>>>>> for our non-metric list members) and is light like >>>>>>>>>>> aluminium.I have >>>>>>>>>>> asked him whether it was magnetic and he said 'no' . >>>>>>>>>>> Of course I should have asked him whether it was >>>>>>>>>>> attracted to a magnet, so I did and waiting for his reponse >>>>>>>>>>> now.Because >>>>>>>>>>> this object is so small I've advised him that the best way >>>>>>>>>>> to test >>>>>>>>>>> may >>>>>>>>>>> be to file down a flat area and apply nitol to see if a >>>>>>>>>>> pattern >>>>>>>>>>> emerges. >>>>>>>>>>> Of course even this isn't 100% if it happened to be an >>>>>>>>>>> ataxite. >>>>>>>>>>> I told him I thought it was unlikely that the object was >>>>>>>>>>> meteoritic in nature but that I would pose the question to >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> meteorite list and see what the experts think.So if you >>>>>>>>>>> could please >>>>>>>>>>> take a look and offer your opinions I'd appreciate it. >>>>>>>>>>> Jim Brady >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://tr.im/sUQk >>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Matt Morgan >>>>>>>>>>> Mile High Meteorites >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mhmeteorites.com >>>>>>>>>>> P.O. Box 151293 >>>>>>>>>>> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA >>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> ......................................................... >>>>>>>>>> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) >>>>>>>>>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >>>>>>>>>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and >>>>>>>>>> http://www.glassthrower.com >>>>>>>>>> .......................................................... >>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. >>>>>>>>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047 >>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ......................................................... >>> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) >>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >>> .......................................................... >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... From mikewren at gilanet.com Sat Jul 18 18:12:43 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:12:43 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Catalogues In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is there anything you do not know... Best Wishes Michael On Jul 18, 2009, at 2:56 PM, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > Mike G. wrote: "the earlier versions were edited by someone else..." > > GRAHAM A.L., BEVAN A.W.R. and HUTCHISON R. (1985) Catalogue of > Meteorites, 4th Ed. Univ. Arizona Press, Tucson, Arizona. 460 pp.). > > HEY M.H. (1966) Catalogue of Meteorites, 3rd edition, London, 1966, > pp. 637. > > Cheers, > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From minador at yahoo.com Sat Jul 18 18:23:04 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting ethics Message-ID: <704867.37880.qm@web54402.mail.yahoo.com> Claim jumping implies trespassing onto clearly marked piece of land wihin which the claim holders have the legal right to the minerals and/or rock materials. In this case there is no legal process to claim meteorites. The landowners have ownership of these meteorites. Only the people who have collected stones from this fall know the legal status of the land. Jack and his crew apparently have the permission of the landowner to hunt them. I think there are two things of importance here: Respecting private property and recording data when you remove any material. If you?re trespassing on private property while looking for meteorites, that is a serious breach of ethics in my opinion. If you?re trespassing on public property (like land incorporated by Benson, State Land, BLM, etc,) that?s a gray area. It appears that there are as many opinions regarding collecting on public lands as there are people in this forum. Even the legal agencies have different understandings internally. We don?t know who owns the land. It could be State land and Jack?s team was given exclusive permission to hunt the fall while working with the U of A. It could be private property. If people knew that I had excusive knowledge of a new strewnfield, I wouldn?t want anybody tailing me, especially from my house. I suppose it?s legal to follow me to a site to which I have no legal claim. But I would feel a bit threatened and violated if I found out I had been under a stakeout from my house. I don?t think Carl had that intent, or he would have asked for Mike?s address. So no I wouldn?t want to be tailed under any case. On the other hand, I would have no right to stop others from looking for the fall (using all means available, which include, recognizing my vehicle or collecting information on any vehicle spotted in the area for confirmation purposes). It was stated in a recent email that at West it was common for people to be able to recognize the vehicles of other hunters. I wasn?t reading about the West fall, but did anybody complain then? We don?t know what Carl was planning ? he says he was trying to confirm who owned the vehicles he saw in the area. The Border Patrol freely shared with me where they have seen others looking for the fall. I didn?t think to ask that question; they happened to mentioned it. I did see one car leaving an area and I tried to look away as I drove by, but I couldn?t fight the urge to look at the occupants? I think the best way to protect a fall is to not share any information until you?re comfortable that you?ve collected enough data to satisfy the needs of science. Releasing photos only fueled the search (especially one on the outskirts of meteorite city). Had no information been released, interest would have only died off, but for a few dedicated hunters. Those who are watching the action from their keyboard would still have enjoyed seeing the photos and reading the accounts months later. I have no problem with Jack and the others keeping quiet about the location. Nor do I have a problem with anyone else hunting for the fall site. I say good luck to all the searchers, but if you do find the site, make sure you know the status of the land and have permission before you remove any material (and always collect data ? and eventually share the info with Jack?s team for the sake of science). Mark Vail, AZ --- On Sat, 7/18/09, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: > From: JoshuaTreeMuseum > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting ethics > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, July 18, 2009, 1:24 PM > Rob, > > It sounds like you're describing a claim jumping dry > gulcher to me.? > Phil Whitmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat Jul 18 18:38:19 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 18:38:19 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : Rare Micros for Sale - Sylacauga, Lafayette, Moss, Shalka, Weston, Murchison, and many more! Message-ID: Hi Folks, I have added many new micromounts to my store. Some of these micromounts are exceptionally-rare. In addition to the rare micros listed in this post title, I have the following hot desert finds available : NWA 801 (CR2) NWA 869 (numerous small slices and endcuts) NWA 1459 (OD) NWA 2126 (eucrite) NWA 2634 (ureilite) NWA 2968 (ungrouped achondrite) NWA 2737 (chassignite) I also just received a rare Russian-language text about the Tunguska event - http://galacticstone.mybisi.com/product/152033/Tunguska-Meteorite-Event--Russian-Research-Booklet--RARE_882642.html When using my online store, be sure to use this coupon code at checkout - "metlist" - this will give you 25%-OFF your entire order. :) Thanks for looking and clear skies! MikeG http://www.galactic-stone.com -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From minador at yahoo.com Sat Jul 18 19:52:55 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 16:52:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Proper field data Message-ID: <665613.11786.qm@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> Hey all, What info do you recommend collecting when a find is made in the field? GPS coordinates (and datum used), in situ photos with a scale and weight are a given. But what else? I've also heard that one should not to apply a magnet to a new meteorite because a manget can affect the magnetic susceptibility (doesn't a metal detector affect it too?). What about an historic location versus a new fall? Everyone mentions collecting data, but are we all on the same page? Clear skies, Mark Vail, AZ From pshugar at clearwire.net Sat Jul 18 20:33:19 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:33:19 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Proper field data References: <665613.11786.qm@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <78637398EE9B4AC6B83A17044AE3F8CD@laptop> Now that is a question I need to get answered. I never thought about it before. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bowling" To: Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 6:52 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Proper field data > > Hey all, > What info do you recommend collecting when a find is made in the field? > > GPS coordinates (and datum used), in situ photos with a scale and weight > are a given. But what else? > > I've also heard that one should not to apply a magnet to a new meteorite > because a manget can affect the magnetic susceptibility (doesn't a metal > detector affect it too?). > > What about an historic location versus a new fall? > > Everyone mentions collecting data, but are we all on the same page? > > Clear skies, > Mark > Vail, AZ > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Sat Jul 18 20:55:37 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 17:55:37 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting ethics Message-ID: LOL! You're lucky he didn't charge at you. Those wounded animals can get mean. You really must be more careful! Carl Darren wrote: >True story: I once shot Mike Farmer with a tranquilizer dart and fitted him with a radio collar. Unfortunately the battery died before the next fall. But it was worth it to see him rubbing against trees in the vain attempt to dislodge the collar! Poor confused creature... _ _________________________________________________________________ Bing? brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat Jul 18 22:28:46 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:28:46 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Gleanings from the latest MAPS abstracts - July 2009 Message-ID: Hi Folks! While reading through the latest MAPS supplement (abstracts for the upcoming Meteoritical Society meeting), I ran across some interesting tidbits I'd like to share and get some comments on. First, congratulations are in order for Lawrence Grossman for being awarded the Leonard Medal for 2009. The Leonard Medal is awarded for outstanding contributions to the science of meteoritics. I think we can all agree that Lawrence has indeed contributed much to the field and this medal is certainly well-deserved. Next, our friend Peter Davidson (Curator of Minerals, Scotland Natl. Museum) will find this abstract of interest - "Weathering of the Glenrothes Meteorite (H5), The First Scottish Find". This study examines the differences and similarities between two diverse weathering environments - the Saharan Desert and Scotland. What is surprising, is that there are considerable similarities found. Fans of LDG will find this abstract interesting - "On Some Micro-Textural Features of Libyan Desert Glass With Dark Schieren". BSE images taken of select areas of LDG specimens shows microscopic flow structures and zircon grains. Here is one with an interesting title that I wasn't expecting to see - "Mythological Artifacts Made of Celestial Bodies - A Buddhist Deity of Meteoritic Iron" - this focuses on the "iron man" sculpture carved from iron meteorite and in the possession of an Austrian collector. I'd love to see some photos of this piece. Does anyone have one? Of interest to hunters - "Near-Earth Asteroid/Meteoroid Impacts : Prospects for Linking Telescopic Observations with Recovered Meteorites" - in an attempt to replicate the plotting/recovery success of 2008 TC3, the Spaceguard Survey is being examined for ways to streamline and improve the system for the recovery of meteorites. The current Survey has a ~10% chance of observing an incoming impactor and plotting it's impact location, once per year. This could be improved. Antarctic find RBT 04133 was originally classified as a CR2, but now this new abstract demonstrates it is a CV3 that has experienced mild thermal alteration - and that it shares some CO-like characteristics. "RBT 04133 : A New Unusual Carbonaceous Chondrite" Martin will be delighted to hear that the Germans and Austrians have discovered a new area of meteorite concentration in Antarctica. Or, should one say they re-discovered an area where the Russians found Lazarev. The Germans undertook an expedition to the Queen Maud Land region of Antarctica and recovered 16 meteorites (mostly L, LL, or H chondrites) - one of the meteorites was a 31kg iron! (I'd like to see a photo of that one) - further exploration of this area may yield more results. "Discovery of a New Meteorite Concentration Site in Queen Maud Land, Antarctica" This one should prove interesting - "Are CI Chondrites Cometary Samples? Olivine as a Diagnostic Tool" - in this study, it is demonstrated that CI carbonaceous chondrites exhibit close affinities with particles gathered from Comet Wild 2. In fact, olivine compositions in the CI meteorites more closely match Wild 2 than other carbonaceous types. Does this mean that the CI class will be revealed as cometary in origin? There are many more interesting abstracts that I just don't have time to share right now, including - an argument that the Atacama desert is the densest meteorite area in the hot deserts, the first LL-L chondrite (NWA 5764), and something about a rare meteorite (one of only 2) that has a high level of water in it. (Can someone please point me to that particular abstract, I can't seem to find it now). Best regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Personal Site - http://www.glassthrower.com FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle .......................................................... From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat Jul 18 23:18:37 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:18:37 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Weird Brecciated or Dual-Lithology Meteorites - Photos Message-ID: Hi List, I cut open 2 more oddball UNWA stones today. One had relatively fresh black crust and weighed 10 grams before I cut it. I was pleasantly surprised to see 2 distinct zones within the matrix. One is lighter, one is darker. The metal flecks seem uniformly distributed across both zones, but the division between the 2 lithologies is very linear and easy to see. My question is, since this stone is so small, does it represent a dual lithology type, or is it a piece of a larger meteoroid that was brecciated? Two-color Matrix - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/breccia-dual/2-zones-1.jpg Close-up of one half of the stone - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/breccia-dual/2-zones-2.jpg The crusted exterior of the 2-color stone - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/breccia-dual/2-zones-whole.jpg ... This next stone is very unusual to me and I am keenly interested in hearing some feedback from the List about it. What is it? The exterior shows typical desert varnish. It could even be a convincing-looking meteorwrong. But, it's attracted to a magnet and when I cut it open, I saw numerous metal blebs and this wonderful brecciated matrix. Can you see "Pac Man" in the matrix? Brecciated Matrix - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/breccia-dual/breccia-1.jpg Another shot of the breccia - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/breccia-dual/breccia-2.jpg A polished slice of the breccia, tilted at angle to show the metal - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/breccia-dual/breccia-iron.jpg Outside of the brecciated stone - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/breccia-dual/breccia-outside.jpg Any opinions on what these stones might be, especially the second one? Best regards, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Personal Site - http://www.glassthrower.com FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle .......................................................... From mmurray at montrose.net Sat Jul 18 23:00:33 2009 From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:00:33 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 18, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nice picture. Glad I had an opportunity to see it. Love the crystals. Thanks for posting it. Mike in CO On Jul 18, 2009, at 5:53 AM, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com wrote: > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_18_2009.html > > __________________________ > > **************Can love help you live longer? Find out now. > (http://personals.aol.com/articles/2009/02/18/longer-lives-through-relationships/?ncid=emlweu > slove00000001) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Sun Jul 19 00:42:44 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:42:44 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Weird Brecciated or Dual-Lithology Meteorites - Photos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7t856595esb410e8puop9pmaiqomqm9fha@4ax.com> On Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:18:37 -0400, you wrote: >2 lithologies is very linear and easy to see. My question is, since >this stone is so small, does it represent a dual lithology type, or is >it a piece of a larger meteoroid that was brecciated? > >Two-color Matrix - >http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/breccia-dual/2-zones-1.jpg Looks pretty much like 869 to me. Similar cut pieces in my collection: http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/tmp/ From arizonakeith at cox.net Sun Jul 19 00:34:16 2009 From: arizonakeith at cox.net (Arizona Keith) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:34:16 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] LPL Apollo 11 Anniversary Event and Meteorite People Message-ID: Hello List Ruben ask me to post this for him. For anyone interested in a few images of todays event. BTW Some of the pictures are large but most are small files. http://www.mr-meteorite.net/lplapolloanniversary.htm Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona My Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net My Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ My Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v From mojave_meteorites at cox.net Sun Jul 19 03:12:48 2009 From: mojave_meteorites at cox.net (Rob Matson) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 00:12:48 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting ethics In-Reply-To: <381142.96341.qm@web43405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi All, Joe writes: > There is nothing "illegal" about the way Carl found it... I didn't say there was. My post was more about ethics and hypothetical situations. > Just cuz somebody makes the first find, no matter who it is > does not own the strewnfield, not by any means, unless it > is on his property. Irrelevant to the discussion. Did I ever say anywhere in my post that Jack has exclusive rights to his discovery location? No. > ...just cuz it is in AZ they feel the need to sccop it all > up for themselves, thats not right... Jack has never said anything of the sort; and Mike has already pointed out that if you found the fall location *independently*, then you would have just as much right to be there as they do (assuming it didn't violate existing arrangements with any property owners). > I see it as selfish... I see it as SMART. Frankly, I would rather have scientifically- minded people helping to recover a new fall because they actually care about science, not because of fame or profit. > Who is to say Carl will not get GPS coordinance and in situ > photo? If he finds anything, perhaps he will. Indeed, I hope he would. > After the way Jack, Mike and the other acted, I would > not give them any info on my finds, they are not doing the > same for anyone else. If this is really how you feel, I can't say I'd be very interested in enlisting your help to recover a new fall. For the scientists, this isn't a game. It isn't about money, or petty jealousies. It's about quality scientific data. Every meteorite that is recovered "improperly" is a lost data point. If I was in Jack's shoes (which to some degree, I am) I would feel no obligation whatsoever to share my hard-earned results with anyone until I was damned good and ready. > This fall just shows the true colors of some of the hunters. Quite so. > Like you said, when Jack invited Farmer he knew there was a chance > that somebody may find the strewnfield cuz he is so high profile. > He took that chance and it happened. Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't. You only have Carl's say-so at this point. As far as I know, he doesn't have any meteorites as evidence to back up the claim. > Carl did not put a beacon on Mikes Car. Did I say he did? No. My hyperbole was meant to show how various levels of "cheating" were different only in magnitude, not flavor. They're all unethical to varying degrees. To summarize: 1. You don't have a right to know what Jack figured out. 2. Jack doesn't have a right to prevent you from figuring out what he did -- by your own scientific means. 3. If you aren't yet clever enough to do #2, then educate yourself so that you can. It's really not rocket science. --Rob From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sun Jul 19 09:57:21 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 09:57:21 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 19, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/July_19_2009.html __________________________ **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585099x1201462822/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jul yExcfooterNO62) From damoclid at yahoo.com Sun Jul 19 11:11:02 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 08:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] LPL Apollo 11 Anniversary Event and Meteorite People In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <516155.98342.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> As an LPLer who was not involved with the planning or execution of this event, I think those who did should be congratulated for the fine celebration that was held in the LPL atrium yesterday. I know I had a great time as did the hundreds and hundreds of our guests. A special thanks to those involved in the meteorite displays. They deserve another thank you too for making the event a hit. The display of sixteen(!) different lunar meteorites was fantastic and made this event more special! (In no particular order, and sorry if I miss anyone) Mike Farmer Geoff Notkin Robert Ward Shauna Russell Greg Hupe along with their friends and assistants all deserve thanks. While it was about the Apollo 11 anniversary, the end of the atrium holding the meteorites was nearly always packed with people, especially children. Geoff was giving away posters and to a limited number of early arrivers, actual meteorites. I wonder how many new collectors the efforts of all the participants generated yesterday? I'm sure quiet a few! You all deserve thanks. I saw but didn't get a chance to say hello to Jack Schrader, Rubin Garcia and Marvin Kilgore. Again, sorry if I missed anyone else who was there. Finally a special thanks goes to Dolores Hill. She is sometimes too humble and will never stand up and take a bow, but she certainly deserves some public praise. She tirelessly explained everything meteorite to the kids, both little and big. One couldn't help but notice all of the young girls at her table that were excited by meteorites. When we left just after 8pm, Dolores was still going string, even though she had been up and going full speed since 6am on nothing more than a bagel and water. She is a jewel in the field of meteoritics; One that all too often goes under appreciated. This field is lucky to have her. -- Richard Kowalski From prairiecactus at rtcol.com Sun Jul 19 12:17:25 2009 From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 12:17:25 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tom Wolf Bridge To The Stars Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/opinion/19wolfe.html The day the space race died. Phil Whitmer From gle at verizon.net Sun Jul 19 12:14:43 2009 From: gle at verizon.net (Grant Elliott) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 12:14:43 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting ethics References: <899298.46086.qm@web43408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <80F4A79FC4184377B4882EFF766AB91A@Grant> Darren, I was unfortunately drinking coffee when I read this, which resulted in a tad bit of cleanup after I got myself under control. The "Animal Kingdom" word picture was just too much for me. Thank You for the light moment- Grant Elliott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hunting ethics True story: I once shot Mike Farmer with a tranquilizer dart and fitted him with a radio collar. Unfortunately the battery died before the next fall. But it was worth it to see him rubbing against trees in the vain attempt to dislodge the collar! Poor confused creature... From stanleygregr at hotmail.com Sun Jul 19 14:45:28 2009 From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 11:45:28 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] What got you into meteorites? In-Reply-To: <596228.46410.qm@web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <596228.46410.qm@web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Greg/List: How did I get into meteorites? It perhaps started way back in the ?70?s when a good friend of mine who was a mineral enthusiast got a job at the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History in Washington DC, and I remember him telling me that diamonds (carbon) had been found in iron meteorites; Wow? I thought that was very interesting. It also was about the same time I was writing a research paper (for English class) on the theory that a large meteor crashed on earth, resulting in the extinction of the dinosaurs? very fun to write and I think I received an ?A?. Years later after many years of fossil and mineral collecting on the east coast, I began to read about meteorites and I remember seeing ?The Meteorite Man,? Mr. Bob Haag on TV and in a few publications. Later I moved to Austin, TX pursuing an engineering degree and began to do more research on how to buy meteorites - It was the early 1990?s and there were few dealers and I also was living on a limited income. I do remember looking in the TX desert and I also looked for Tektites (never found any) throughout the ?90?s. Then in 1997, I was driving to California for a summer internship and I went to the Meteorite Crater in Arizona. It was during this drive across the country, when I stopped at a roadside stand and bought a small ~25 gram Canyon Diablo meteorite; I still have it today. The next year I bought a second Canyon Diablo, which is 225 grams. After graduating from the University of Texas, I got a job in Bakersfield and began hunting the deserts there and found my first meteorite (a 15.8 gram chondrite) in 2006. Since then I have found many more and I read about the different varieties of meteorites when ever I have free time. I have collected fossils and minerals since I was a boy, but I think meteorites are so unique and out of this world, that they have become my primary focus of my mineral collection. Everyone, Enjoy Hunting and happy 40th anniversary (July 20th) of the Apollo 11 moon landing. Greg S. > Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 11:24:06 -0700 > From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] What got you into meteorites? > > > Why am I into meteorites? > > I started off as a sci fi fan, and a major Star Wars collector (AKA, a nerd) > A friend of mine that owns a local rock and mineral store came across a meteorite for me and I picked it up. > I then ventured onto the internet in search of information about it and discovered I could buy Campo crystals rather cheap... I was using tumbled earth rocks as a method to teach my daughter math and thought meteorites would be a neat way to help her learn to do math. > > The first person I bought from - Bob C. was really nice and I ended up buying alot of Campo individuals, a really nice half gram martian from him and other really nice meteorites - from there, my collection suddenly took on a life of its own. > > When I purchased my first Lunar (Dhofar 910) from Adam Hupe, I quickly saw that for me to grow my collection like I wanted (Im not that big into micros) I would need to buy in bulk to get better prices. I started searching around to see who could give me good deals for buying in bulk... In turn I went around to local shops such as comic book and rock/mineral stores and shows trying to sell the extra material. > > For me, meteorites were/are not really a money thing, but a way that allows me to offer a method of teaching that is "neat" for my daughter and also allows me to actually touch, smell and better understand space, where we came from and where we are going. What is more cool then holding a piece of the moon? > > We always see sensational hollywood movies such as Armageddon, Deep Impact etc... Meteorites allow us to actually hold what the blockbuster movies are all about - Meteorites! > > In the 3 years we have been involved with this "hobby" my daughter has now expressed a major interest in being a "meteorite scientist" when she grows up! > At 7 years old, she can t