[meteorite-list] Arizona fall

[Adam Hupe]

Interesting take on all of this, Martin, 

I just wanted to add a few corrections to my initial post. I stated 150 pounds could be removed in a year.  I reread my notes taken from what a BLM agent from Barstow said and they state that 25 pounds a day or 250 pounds a year can be legally brought out. This law was obviously written for mineral specimens that can easily be broken down in the field.

I guess if you find a meteorite on open federal land that weighs over 25 pounds, it will have to be broken into several pieces and brought out over a period of time to stay within the law.  This is what happens when laws are bent to cover things they were not originally intended for.

Best Regards,

Adam

 


  
--- On Sun, 7/5/09, Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de> wrote:


> From: Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>

> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall

> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 6:24 PM

> Yes Jeff,

> 

> in a positive sense, cause meteorites are certainly no

> resources.

> And else I can't find meteorites mentioned at all there.

> 

> And if I follow the sentence (according Austrian laws)

> about the Austrian

> part of the Neuschwanstein fall, it offers an interesting

> aspect,

> which might has to be proven first:

> 

> There they decided, that the meteorite (recovered 3 years

> after the fall)

> had NOT became part of the land it was found on.

> 

> Interesting, isn't it?

> 

> Anyway, we can indulge in legal persnicketinesses as long

> as we want,

> clear is,

> that we will totally ruin that subbranch of space and Earth

> science,

> the more crude laws come into force or are tried to be

> overstreched.

> 

> Because if not private people would pick the meteorite up -

> like they did

> the 200 years before to deliver 90% or more of the

> non-Antarctic finds or

> falls, who else should do it?

> 

> With West we heard that one single person from the science

> side entered the

> field. Art Ehlmann.

> 

> Then we have a Suisse team searching Oman and that was it

> on Earth.

> Else sporadically some university teams, who recover always

> not more than 2

> or 3 stones, almost all old ordinary chondrites of minor

> scientific value.

> 

> Antarctica is fine, but they can't bring the performance

> the private people

> are doing around the globe (that Antarcica is 100 times

> more expensive, one

> hasn't to mention anymore) and they can't recover fresh

> falls.

> 

> If we want such a complete breakdown like in Australia,

> then we should carry

> on in inventing more and more restrictions.

> 

> I'm writing from Europe, where half of the observed falls

> of the decade

> wouldn't have been recovered or noticed at all, if not

> private people would

> have cared for

> and where the tkws of very most of the other half would

> have stayed very

> tiny, if the private section hadn't added so many.

> 

> It should be one of the most urgent missions of the

> Meteoritical Society in

> London to take care for politics and legislation around the

> world turning

> back to a state of reason and to grant that the very

> substance of that field

> of science won't be lost.

> 

> Until that isn't achieved, hunters, scientists and

> collectors - come to

> Austria.

> 

> Gosh, we're talking about meteorites. The most whack and

> strangest and

> rarest objects on Earth, without any cultural, economical

> or natural

> importance. And of solely scientific interest, where the

> researchers are

> glad and happy that people are going out to look for them.

> How anyone with a brain could come to the idea to make a

> law for meteorites?

> 

> 

> So - let's handle the case more pragmactically:

> Let Schrader, Farmer & Co. save the stones first and

> the strewnfield data,

> before we hang them for the crime to have recovered a new

> pristine fall for

> science and a fall of historical dimensions for the State

> of Arizona.

> 

> Anybody else here, who feels the absurdity the same way

> like me?

> Martin

> 

> 

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----

> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com

> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]

> Im Auftrag von Jeff

> Grossman

> Gesendet: Montag, 6. Juli 2009 02:37

> An: Meteorite-list

> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Arizona fall

> 

> I am skeptical that this covers meteorites, even if a BLM

> employee 

> thinks it does.  Very skeptical.

> 

> jeff

> 

> Adam Hupe wrote:

> > Dear List,

> >

> > A question came up about who owns meteorites found on

> federal land.

> >

> > Below is a link that can be cut and pasted into a

> browser that discusses

> removal of minerals from federal land.  I was told by

> a BLM officer that 150

> pounds can be removed a year for non-commercial/hobby

> purposes.  The BLM

> will issue free non-commercial use permits if requested. I

> found that they

> will even mail them to you free.  If you are caught

> removing minerals

> without one, the fines can be as great as $100,000.00 or a

> year in jail.

> >

> > If a meteorite weighs more than 150 pounds, it will

> have to be cut in the

> field and the rest recovered during subsequent years or the

> Smithsonian may

> claim it. The BLM can and will come after you if profits

> from any object

> including meteorites are taken from the sale of minerals

> from federal land.

> I was told that eBay is monitored all of time and notes

> taken.  I made some

> poor agent spend more than an hour on the phone explaining

> what is and isn't

> acceptable to them to avoid future problems.

> >

> > The good news is that you can keep the meteorites!

> >

> > I think Jack,s approach of keeping the press out of

> this fall is well

> thought out. The first thing the press will do is mention

> there is monetary

> value in meteorites and then "Gold Fever" will set in. I

> have seen people do

> strange things and come up with poorly thought out plans

> when "Gold Fever"

> takes hold. People with this affliction are usually the

> ones that

> relentlessly chase the press instead of looking for

> meteorites themselves.

> They will stab fellow hunters in the back and forget all

> about long-forged

> friendships. They are best avoided all-together. 

> >

> > Here is a link that will explain mineral laws in

> simple English:

> >

> >

> http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/wo/MINERALS__REALTY__AND_RESOURCE

> _PROTECTION_/non-energy_minerals.Par.48557.File.dat/sand.pdf

> >

> >

> > By the way, Congratulations Jack, excellent job all

> around!

> >

> >

> > Best Regards,

> >

> > Adam

> >

> > ______________________________________________

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> >   

> 

> 

> -- 

> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman   

>    phone: (703) 648-6184

> US Geological Survey         

> fax:   (703) 648-6383

> 954 National Center

> Reston, VA 20192, USA

> 

> 

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