[meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensivemeteorite"collectable"

[Marcin Cimala]

"Gold Chondrule Avard"
for Mr Altmann for longest emails ever posted to the list :D

Just my two grosz, totaly off-topic.

:) :D


-----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-----
http://www.Meteoryty.pl             marcin(at)meteoryty.pl
http://www.PolandMET.com       marcin(at)polandmet.com
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com      GSM: +48 (793) kosmos
--------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]--------




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky 
expensivemeteorite"collectable"



> No,

>

> it shows only how exotic these laws are.

>

> I'm sure the "Australian Government" doesn't intentionally want to keep 

> the

> Australian meteorites in Australia,

> I'm rather convinced that quite nobody in the Australian government is 

> aware

> of that law at all,

> because normal people don't know about meteorites or care about at all.

>

> And you have to keep in mind, how such laws happen.

> The most probable scenario is,

> that there are a handful of curators or meteorite scientists, who express

> their wishes, that the national meteorites should be theirs or that they

> should end in their hands or what ever their motivation might be.

> No matter how thought-out their ideas are,

> and they are sitting in a committee or elsewhere

> they give the recommendation to the legislature, that meteorites do have 

> to

> be protected.

>

> Legislature means: politicians and civil servants.

> Of course these people can't have any idea what a meteorite is, how they 

> are

> found, how many do exist, what for a scientific or economical value they

> have or don't have and how they were exchanged between finders, museums,

> dealers, collectors in past.

> At best they have heard of artefacts, dinosaurs, resources - and know, 

> that

> these other - in their eyes similar - objects, have to be protected and 

> are

> of great importance -

> and anyway the proposal to protect meteorites comes from scientists, hence

> people, who are supposed to know about what they are talking,

> therefore they will always wave that petition through

> and will add the word "meteorites" into the relevant already existent 

> laws.

>

> You see it in the Aussie-Natural-Heritage lists,

> there they simply added "meteorites",

> it would have been logic to add the Australian tektites too - they are 

> much

> more valuable than that Henbury, Mundrabilla, Boxhole, Camel Donga,

> Millbillillie stuff and much more rare, but you don't find them there.

> There you can see how arbitrary that all is.

>

> Or think to Poland - in the last 70 years they had 4 (four) meteorites 

> there

> - so I really doubt, that any politician would have seen an urgent need 

> for

> action to create a law for meteorites

> - but they did, so bizarre or droll this may sound to you.

> Most probably because a panjandrum put a bug in a clerk's or politician's

> ear. Or because one from the latter felt for the usual rubbish in the

> newspapers, that meteorites would have a value of millions of dollars per

> stone and are trafficked and dealt by shady persons by thousands of tons 

> on

> ominous black markets. So that they get alerted, to protect the thousands 

> of

> tons and quadrillions of Zloty of their Polish meteorites

> (and to get a faster promotion).

>

>

>

> But! If once a word is added into a law,

> then it will be horribly difficult to remove it from there again.

>

> Look - nobody could have said anything about that experiment to protect

> meteorites in Australia.

> Now we can judge the results, because enough time has elapsed to see, what

> the impact of this laws were.

>

> Well and there everybody can see, that the law had a converse effect than

> initially intended:  Much, much less meteorites are recovered and almost 

> no

> Australian meteorites end up anymore in the Australian institutional

> collections and universities.

>

> Wait - I will look in the Bulletin Database.

>

> During the last 10 years - 1999-2009

>

> 2007:    Bunburra Rockhole, EUC, tkw 324g -  a Fall

>

> 2006:    Eldee 001   L6, S3, W1-2 tkw 4.51kg,

>         Eldee 002   L6-melt breccia, W2 tkw 101g

>         Yaringie    H6,                       tkw 5.75 kg

>

> 2003:    Prospector Pool   Iron, ungrouped tkw 2.77kg

>

> 2002:    Myrtle Springs   H4 tkw  53g   (Hello

> Don!)

>

> 1999:    Dunbogan   L6                         tkw  30g    a Fall

>         Reid 028   H6, W3 tkw  30g

>

> Makes up     8  (eight) meteorites.

> Australia has a total of  649 meteorites.

>

>

> And these, Ladies and Gentlemen, were the complete officially recorded new

> meteorites of the decade of a whole continent, a continent full of 

> deserts.

>

> For you in USA, where no such laws exist, to compare:

> (I don't know, whether your deserts are of comparable size and so suitable

> for meteorites like the Australian deserts)

>

> But USA had in the same time:

> 1999-2009 officially recorded in the Bulletins:

>

> 282 new meteorites

>

> And USA has a total of 1576 meteorites.

>

> GIST OF THAT POSTING:

>

>

>

>

> --->  during the last 10 years 18% of all known US-meteorites were found

>

> --->  during the last 10 years  1% of all known Aussie-meteorites were 

> found

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I use the percentage to exclude factors like population density, 

> properties

> of the surface and size of overall surface....

>

> So we see, there has to be done something.

>

> We here on the list are often only lousy laymen, even most of us not

> citizens of Australia, we have no influence on Australian legislation.

>

> But scientists pled for the laws, which led to the leakage of new 

> Australian

> meteorites, so maybe scientists could pled for an amendment to these laws,

> for them finally getting meteorites to work with again.

>

> Therefore we all could ask Alex Bevan, Bill Birch, the McColls, Ross

> Pogson...all the Australian meteoricists - not to forget Caroline Smith,

> cause just yesterday here an article about London was shown, with the link

> to the blog where she went hunting in Australia, one of the few persons, 

> who

> were looking for meteorites down-under at all, so she knows the situation

> too,

> and of course the Meteoritical Society,

> that they all perhaps will write at the end a memorandum to improve the 

> sad

> situation in Australia and to find better laws.

> But also the other scientists should help their colleagues from 

> down-under.

>

>

> Huh, once I was told by a list member, a German who had emigrated to

> Australia, that he would need even an export permit for his German

> meteorites from his collection, if he wants to bring them out of 

> Australia.

> That's a perfect integration, I'd say, if the belongings of an immigrant 

> get

> immediately National Heritage of Australia. But also somewhat weird.

>

> Uh imagine, if someone sends a suspected stone to Bevan to Australia and 

> it

> will turn out and classified to be a meteorite. Then he has to apply for 

> an

> export permit to get the stone back?

>

> Australia has so fine meteorites and had once such a meteorite tradition,

> the superb Wolf-Creek-Crater - well worth to have a meteorite or mineral

> fair there. But nobody from other countries will come with meteorites, 

> cause

> the paper-warfare would be a mess.

>

> A not so theoretical question:

>

> The meteorite sellers in most cases have a return policy, which allows the

> buyers to send the specimens back, if they aren't fully satisfied.

> What one has to do, if that happens with an Australian collector?

>

> That all is so strange.

>

> But I think, it could be of importance, that Australia where the situation

> became so evident, that the laws disrupted almost fully new finds and

> meteorite research

> and where the scientists are very disappointed about the situation,

> would come to a more reasonable solution,

> because it could be a signal for other desert countries and maybe also for

> the few not yet so informed proponents and Luddites, who want to have

> similar laws there, to avoid such a disaster like had happened in 

> Australia.

>

> Well happy finding,

> And greetings to Blinky Bill!

> Martin

>

>

>

>

>

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----

> Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com]

> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 13:45

> An: Martin Altmann

> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive

> meteorite"collectable"

>

> Hi Martin and List,

>

> Does anyone else find it ironic that the Aussies will put an

> Argentinian meteorite on their Australian coin?  The Aussie government

> doesn't want it's own meteorites leaving it's borders in the hands of

> non-Aussie citizens, so they will take another nation's meteorites and

> use those instead.  Talk about hypocritical.  Talk about playing games

> with permits and laws.  They should stick to Fosters beer.

>

> Best regards,

>

> MikeG

>

>

>

>

>

> On 7/6/09, Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de> wrote:

>> A medallion with Blinky Bill for you to engrave!

>>

>> ...aah, you mean the Campo coin?

>>

>> To complicate to order for me and you,

>> because we would have to apply for an export permit first.

>>

>> (I hope the Royal Australian Mint knows about that problem).

>>

>> A lawyer could make fun in ordering such a coin and if he doesn't find 

>> any

>> export permit icluded,

>> he could incriminate the Australian Government/Royal Mint for illicit

> export

>> of National Heritage...

>>

>> ....so stupid are these Aussie-laws.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----

>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com

>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von 

>> Darren

>> Garrison

>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 7. Juli 2009 06:29

>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

>> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Yet another gimmicky expensive

>> meteorite"collectable"

>>

>> Australian issued meteorite "coin":

>>

>> (mid list)

>>

>>

> http://www.prospectstampsandcoins.com.au/web/royal_aust_mint/2009_coins/inde

>> x.html

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>

>

> -- 

> .........................................................

> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)

> Member of the Meteoritical Society.

> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.

> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com

> ..........................................................

>

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