[meteorite-list] [off-list]<--NOT WHATS WITH THE ATTACKING

[Jason Utas]

Regardless of how he contributes, he's wrong in this case.
I don't care if he's a smart bully, because if he is a popular
contributing member it means that he should set a better example for
people, not a worse one.
I've been here longer than most - since 1998.  Steve, Elton, and most
others are, if not relative newcomers, they simply haven't seen events
unfold as I have.  And I've had to put up with their negative crap for
a good six or seven years now.
It doesn't work.
By all means, complain to Steve, berate him, and talk amongst
yourselves - make a yahoo group or something, but get it off the
bloody list.
It has no place here and if you haven't figured out that it doesn't
work after YEARS of it, I honestly don't know what to say.
Block him maybe?
It takes a click.
Jason

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 1:35 PM, <cdtucson at cox.net> wrote:

> Jason,

> Clearly you are very intelligent. We can all see that But please go easy here. I am a newbie to this list but I have been hunting since 1989 with Bob Haag.

> Elton is not an idiot like Farmer on this list.

> He is one of the lists most popular posters and it is not a stretch to say that people look forward to reading his posts. Whatever he says.

> I read everbody's posts. It matters not what they say but there are a few people that a lot of people look forward to. Elton is probably second only to sterling but there are a few more that this list would really suffer without.

> I also enjoy your posts and I hope you continue with your input but Steve Chicago is a strange nut.

> I like him and have met him personally in Tucson at the Birthday Party. He is a kick but on the list and in his business ethics he is yet another person.

> I guess my point off list here is that knocking a farmer is more acceptable here because everybody knows he is a loaded canon and they know about Steve But please go easy on Elton here. We need to keep all of the brainiacs here including you. Thanks Carl

> Again just my 2 cents.

> --

> Carl or Debbie Esparza

> IMCA 5829

> Meteoritemax

>

>

> ---- Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:

>> Elton,

>>

>> > Jason wrote: "Posting messages that were intended to be kept private to the list is wrong - unless they are necessary in proving a situation such as a deal gone wrong, or cheating having taken place,"

>> >

>> > So Jason which of your listed situations applies to what you've just done?

>>

>> You're the one who supported Tom's post.  How's it feel to have the

>> same done to you?  Given your response, I don't think you liked it.

>> It proves my point.  If I'm wrong for doing it, Tom was wrong for

>> doing it.  Transitivity.

>>

>> a = b

>> b = c

>> ergo

>> a = c

>>

>> (!)

>>

>> > Were you drunk or has that testosterone problem flared up again?

>>

>> Yeah, I may be in college, but not all of us do rubbish like that.

>> Maybe the fact that it's Berkeley has something to do with it.  There

>> are at least a few smart-ish people up here.

>> That said, given your response, I think it's a bit odd for you to be

>> bandying about testosterone as a cause for anything; unless your balls

>> have dropped off, it's as much a cause for your writing as it is for

>> mine.

>> Unless you're going senile, of course.

>>

>> >You are so predictable-- You attacked Tom, for posting private emails to the list and within 6 hours you've done the same thing.

>>

>> Yes, because I've done this in the past....not.  It proved my point,

>> at any rate.  If I'm wrong for doing it, then Tom was wrong for doing

>> it.  Tom is still wrong.  And if you learn that, and Tom learns that,

>> then this won't ever happen again.

>>

>> >You've really let me down--I expected it within no more than 4 hours!  Just as predictable, you didn't have the guts to mail me a copy directly.

>>

>> Emailing directly means nothing when you send a copy to the list, FYI.

>>  You posted this message to the list as well as myself - I got only

>> one copy, as gmail consolidates things like that into one message.

>> Maybe your email works differently, but the messages should still

>> arrive at the same time, give or take a few minutes (at most), so it's

>> a moot point, regardless.

>>

>> > You've proved what I said about you was right on -- you are incapable of having a man-to-man direct discussion, so you have to enlist the entire list hoping someone will help take the heat off your hypocrisy.

>>

>> Yeah, just look at everyone stepping in to help.  Oh, wait.  No one

>> ever steps in.  Check the archives.

>> I did get a number of private emails though.  All supportive save two

>> (those two = 1/4 of the messages received).

>> Maybe I just want them to see what kind of a person you are.

>> I wonder why that would work to my advantage, eh?

>>

>> >Put up or shut up.

>>

>> After your last spew of psychological BS, I think you're really not in

>> a place to be saying anything along these lines at the moment.

>>

>> >Show me you've got a pair and address me directly and off list.  Stop bothering the list with your co-dependency crap.

>>

>> Hardly.  If you insist on propagating this anti-Steve/'I'm better than

>> you' rubbish, it's staying here.  I'm not letting you get away with

>> bullying me in private, undoubtedly ignoring the issue in the process.

>>

>> After all, we're still talking about your conduct with regards to the

>> Steve issue, which is...kind of a list issue, assuming, at least, that

>> you're not as stubborn as Steve is, and might change your ways.

>> After all, the only reason I say take the Steve stuff off-list is

>> because its being on-list doesn't serve any purpose; he doesn't care.

>> You say you do care.  Maybe you'll shut up.

>>

>> > Your discourse started me reflecting.  I've 186 or so semester hours, postgrad Clinical psych, plus 6 months of internships with sex offenders in southern prisons, state mental hospitals, Alzheimer victims and Chronic DUI offenders so if you want to debate such content, lets form a group at yahoo and have at it but, this isn't the place for it. (NOTE: I have grounds a plenty to justify my preference for meteorites over that for humanity). Oh and you've had what...a self awareness class? Did you pass?

>>

>> First- off, I guess I'm glad that you're so accomplished in the field

>> of psychology, but it seems that you've forgotten some of the basics.

>> Back to the textbook, eh?  I'm assuming it's been a while since you

>> learned the stuff.

>>

>> I've only taken Psych 1 at Berkeley and some research work on five or

>> so studies.  Just the standard pre-major (not the other one) general

>> psychology class.  Of course, if any of my points were incorrect, you

>> may by all means quote me to point out which of my statements

>> regarding the psychological aspect of our discussion was in fact

>> wrong.

>>

>> By all means.

>>

>> I mean, just saying "you're wrong" without saying how or why doesn't

>> get anyone anywhere, especially when I refuted every one of your

>> points - it sounds like you're copping out.

>>

>> But looking at your actions from a psychological perspective, I mean,

>> honestly - you were just trying to use the vocabulary of a subject

>> about which you assumed I knew nothing in order to make me seem the

>> weaker person.  The trouble is that I knew/know enough to throw your

>> BS back in your face, and now you're circumnavigating your previous

>> point because you know you can't win if you try to keep it above

>> water.  Classic bullying technique.

>> Attack until the person is down and then kick 'em while you can.

>> But I fought back, and held you off, so now you're completely changing

>> the subject and coming at me with something else.

>> This is just going to be like every other thread we've had where you

>> make some stupid statement, I refute it, and then you just go on

>> arguing some new idiocy.

>>

>> In other words, you're a Troll.

>>

>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

>>

>> > Oh! and even though you try to bait me out with false statements here, recheck your claims next time you do post to the list...

>>

>> Really?  Which one(s)?

>>

>> >Other than ask in a general way for us all to avoid list confrontations over personalities and keep to collecting or commerce issues (which YOU projected to be a post solely about Steve), I've posted nothing to the list about Steve since the temporary eulogy when he "left" last time.

>>

>> Right, as I would expect.  Steve's leaving meant no more issue with

>> Steve, for you.  Now he's back.  Why on earth would you have posted

>> malicious thing about him after he was gone?  It wouldn't have served

>> your purpose of demonizing him, because then people would have thought

>> you the worse man - if they didn't/don't already.

>>

>> >Put up or shut-- show me the specific post you ramble on about; I know you keep all mine in your scrapbook.

>>

>> Which post(s)?  We've had this argument several times, and you know

>> it.  You can get to the archives just as easily as I can, if your

>> memory is still failing you.

>>

>> > Seems clear that now it is you doing the "Steve postings" just like he likes it to happen and tying to make trouble by deliberately distorting reality.

>>

>> But from a psychological perspective, your posts do the same thing.

>> You have your point, I have mine, and we're arguing about who's right.

>>  The situation we're discussing is the same, but we see it in

>> different ways (hence the distortion).  If anything, your pointing

>> this out is ironic because, as a psychologist, you should know how

>> arguments work, and yet you're trying to use the point that I'm

>> distorting things to make it sound as though I'm the only one doing it

>> in order to profess my point of view.

>> Ahhh, the irony!

>> Or maybe it's just you being hypocritical again - I think this is a

>> grey area, but it depends on whether you're pointing out that I'm

>> distorting reality versus if you are directly making an accusation.

>> If you're accusing me of doing it, then you're a hypocrite because

>> you're doing it too.  If you're just pointing it out...well, you're

>> just pointing out that I'm doing something that we're both doing.

>> Ironic when your point is that I'm being the worse person for doing

>> it.

>>

>> >Your post speaks for itself and you've done an excellent job of illustrating the validity of what I wrote (off list) to you--about you. I rest my case.

>>

>> And the fact that you consider it such a horrible thing simply proves

>> my point that Tom was wrong in doing it in the first place.

>>

>> Ergo: Win.

>>

>> Jason

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