From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 1 00:03:38 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:03:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Orbiter Imagery Boots Curiosity Rover's Life Search Message-ID: <200906010403.VAA22131@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0905/31mromsl/ Mars orbiter imagery boosts Curiosity rover's life search BY CRAIG COVAULT SPACEFLIGHT NOW May 31, 2009 NASA and university scientists reviewing data from the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) say evidence is growing that the planet harbored life in its past or that Martian microbes exist now. They say their views are based on the growing body of data on the diversity of water related minerals discovered by MRO. It is also supported by findings from other spacecraft such as Europe's Mars Express orbiter and NASA's Phoenix lander and twin Mars rovers. The MRO data is being used to narrow the best sites to locate life related evidence, while also being safe enough for the Mars Science Laboratory rover "Curiosity" set for launch in 2011. MRO's high resolution mineralogy data resulted in, for example, the addition of Gale crater to MSL's final landing target list. The Curiosity rover will carry 10 times the science payload mass of the coffee-table sized Spirit and Opportunity rovers still operating on Mars. MSL's much larger size is evident by the scale of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory MSL development rover that is the same size of the flight vehicle (see above). Called the "Scarecrow" (because it does not have a computer brain) the MSL developmental rover here--stripped of all but its wheels and chassis--shows the scale of the vehicle far better than more complex mockups with pseudo instrumentation in place because those versions hide chassis details. The new MRO data is being used specifically for final MSL landing site selection as well as assessing evidence for current or past life across Mars. "Every time we go and look at new data from the planet I have gotten more encouraged that the possibility for life at least in Mars' past," says Mike Meyer NASA's lead scientist for Mars exploration. "There is encouraging new MRO evidence that makes the pursuit of present day life very worthwhile," says Scott Murchie of the Applied Physics Laboratory at Johns Hopkins University, principal investigator of the MRO Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer. "I definitely think there could have been life on Mars," says Richard Zurek, MRO project scientist at JPL. All three scientists commented on the life issues at a NASA Headquarters briefing on MRO highlights, as the orbiter has just completed its primary science mission and is beginning and extended science mission phase. "I think there is very encouraging evidence not just to look in the present, but also for what [past life may have come] before during planets evolution," Murchie says. His team's CRISM instrument has returned extensive new evidence on the diversity of water related mineral locations on the planet. Meyer said the discovery of methane in the current Martian atmosphere as well as evidence of liquid water on the planet today are positive factors toward the potential for current life on Mars. On Earth methane is a common byproduct of metabolism by life forms. It has been discovered at specific locations in the Martian atmosphere by the European Mars Express Orbiter. In addition Phoenix lander scientists believe their spacecraft splashed up actual liquid water on Mars during its landing on an arctic water ice plane in 2008. Phoenix also detected carbonate related soil chemistry that could support life. MRO is finding similar carbonate chemistry at other locations on Mars. "I think life could have developed on Mars but whether it is there today I am not so sure," Zurek cautioned however, Zurek said that MRO and other data has become so compelling on positive factors for at least past Martian life, that an important questions is if no life is found on Mars , why has it not formed, he asked? That would force a major new branch of study on the assessment for diminished chances for life on other bodies besides Earth, in or outside of the solar system he says. He said that the same ingredients present on Earth when life began to form just a billion years after the planet formed were also present at the same time on Mars, when its climate was warmer and more hospitable to surface life than it is now. Those include surface and underground water, solar energy and heat and heat from within the planet . All three scientists said underground Mars life may be more likely than surface life just as on Earth where there is more biomass underground than on the surface. A major emphasis in the new MRO phase will be to search for near real time geologic and aqueous processes that could bear on the current life question, such as detection of real time or recent outbursts of water from the sides of crater walls. MRO has made some spectacular discoveries that relate to the presence of water or ancient Mars and its abundance at specific locations. One such site is at Nili Fossae, where there is remarkable mineral evidence relating to water. The area, based on CRISM data was initially considered as an MSL landing area but rejected as too hazardous. That does not diminish its significance, however, as an area where life could have formed. Some future rover beyond MSL or even a manned lander may some day visit Nili Fossae based on the MRO imagery. That MRO imagery shows carbonate minerals (color coded green) indicating that Mars had neutral to alkaline water when the minerals formed at these locations more than 3.6 billion years ago. Carbonates, which on Earth include limestone and chalk, dissolve quickly in acid. Therefore, their survival until today on Mars challenges suggestions that an exclusively acidic environment later dominated the planet. Instead, it indicates that different types of watery environments existed. The greater the variety of wet environments, the greater the chances one or more of them may have supported life, scientists agree. "We're excited to have finally found carbonate minerals because they provide more detail about conditions during specific periods of Mars' history," said Murchie. The best-exposed rocks occur along a Nili Fossae trough system 414 mi. long at the edge of a large basin. The region has rocks rich in olivine, (color coded yellow) a mineral that can react with water to form the carbonate. "This discovery of carbonates in an intact rock layer, in contact with clays, is an example of how joint observations by CRISM and the telescopic cameras on MRO are revealing details of distinct environments on Mars," said Sue Smrekar, deputy project scientist for the orbiter at JPL. They point to specific locations where future rovers and landers could search for possible evidence of past life, she says. Gale crater and three other potential MSL sites, already picked based on earlier data, and reexamination by MRO , will be narrowed to a final target site by late next year. The image of Gale shown above also shows the candidate MSL landing ellipse within the crater. CRISM data indicate that water once in the crater left a detailed and layered mineralogical record on the crater walls and around the crater's giant central peak. The peak documents what took place there from the time a giant meteorite initially formed the crater 3 billion years ago, to later periods in Mars history. The oldest exposed rocks are at the top of the central peak. Layering all up and down the peak indicate different water layers in the crater through more recent time since the crater was formed. If Gale crater is selected, Murchie says MSL rover instruments will look for fossils of past Martian life there as well as less spectacular evidence, like organic bearing rocks that could have been formed with microorganisms present and preserved the chemical signitures of past life. MRO is also continuing to image three other MSL landing site candidates equally compelling says Zurek. They are: *Marwth Valley:* The only MSL candidate landing site in the northern hemisphere is the Marwth Valley area. " It too is important because of the diversity of the mineral signatures that you see," Zurek says. A large channel carved by water cuts across the valley below highlands out of where the water flowed. The highlands also show the effects of water, Zurek says. "There we see different mineral signatures in different layers indicating the episodic activity of water or the mixing of soils by impacts in the early history of Mars," he says. *Holden Crater:* In the southern hemisphere of Mars the 60 mi. dia. Holden crater area is also a landing site finalist because of a channel that goes into that crater. MRO data indicate water once flowed into that crater, then formed a lake before it breached the far wall and ran out, leaving layers. "In those layers we would expect to find evidence of the past chemistry, the action of water, and how long it was there," says Zurek. "They may also have the potential of preserving bio signature evidence of past life if life ever developed on the planet and flourished in this area." *Eberswalde Crater:* "The outstanding characteristic of Eberswalde crater is that it has a delta formation like that formed by the Mississippi river," Zurek says. The delta is highly structured and layered, "meaning that there were many episodes of water flowing into the crater," he says. Those layers are the kind of formation that could preserve evidence of past life if that life had developed on the planet, Zurek says. From meteoritemike at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 00:05:44 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 00:05:44 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite magazine: Celebrating O. Richard Norton's life In-Reply-To: <66717.35236.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4A20A56F.2010905@meteoritesusa.com> <599112.98628.qm@web83813.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <6b7d6d55911c48b593e86d4cc284a82c.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> <66717.35236.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Larry, Nancy and List, I agree, great idea here. I can't wait to see the tribute issue. :) Best regards, MikeG On 5/31/09, Ruben Garcia wrote: > > Outstanding! Thank you Larry and Nancy Lebofsky! > > Ruben Garcia > Phoenix, Arizona > My Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net > My Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ > My Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu" > To: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:44:57 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite magazine: Celebrating O. Richard > Norton's life > > Dear Friends: > > As most of you are aware, O. Richard Norton was a supporter of and > involved with "Meteorite" magazine from the very beginning, He wrote his > first article, ?Meteorites?Chips off the Old Asteroid Block,? in the first > issue of "Meteorite!" in 1995. He also wrote ?Centerpiece? for ten years. > We will all miss him. > > Because of this, we would like to celebrate the life Richard Norton by > dedicating the November issue of "Meteorite" magazine to him. Many of you > have written to the Meteorite and IMCA lists expressing your feelings and, > in some cases, giving your personal experiences with Richard or with one > of the many books he has written. > > We would like to include a series of anecdotes about your personal > experiences with Richard (or one of his many books) that can be published > in the November issue. As much as possible, we would like to do this as a > historical sequence with pictures, to show who he has influenced in the > meteorite community, in what way, and when. How far back does his > influence go? Ron Hartman and Richard were at UCLA together and Nancy took > an astronomy class and a photography class from him in 1974 and 1975 when > he was the Director of the Grace H. Flandrau Planetarium here in Tucson. > > Please try to limit your text to one or two images and about a hundred > words! > > Please send your emails directly to us at: > > lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu and copy to llebofsky at gmail.com > > Thanks to all of you in advance. > > Larry and Nancy Lebofsky > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From lintonius at earthlink.net Mon Jun 1 02:57:23 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 23:57:23 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? Message-ID: Greetings listees. I know some of you prefer to use the Fisher Gold Bug II metal detectors. I've been watching for a "pre-owned model" and what I'm wondering is... Is the difference between the Gold Bug II and the original subtle, or substantial? Should I bother with the original at a good price, or hold out for the newer model? Either way, this will be my first detector. Any advice would be highly appreciated. Thank you. Linton From erikfwebb at msn.com Mon Jun 1 04:14:52 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:14:52 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The second version has a substantially higher frequency so it's really hot on metal. John Wolfe's can pick up some gold basin L's and Palo Verde Mine L's that a GMT can't. He showed me some very nice specimen gold too. With my Dad's Gold Bug Origional, I have found bird shot 8 inches deep, as loud as a wistle. Either one is good on meteorites but I would sugest paying for the version two. [Erik] > From: lintonius at earthlink.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 23:57:23 -0700 > Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > > Greetings listees. > I know some of you prefer to use the Fisher Gold Bug II metal detectors. > I've been watching for a "pre-owned model" and what I'm wondering is... > Is the difference between the Gold Bug II and the original subtle, or > substantial? > Should I bother with the original at a good price, or hold out for the newer > model? > Either way, this will be my first detector. Any advice would be highly > appreciated. > Thank you. > Linton > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at mcomemeteorite.it Mon Jun 1 10:36:56 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:36:56 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions ending soon Message-ID: <4a23e788.37d.3fae.1450297410@webmaildh4.aruba.it> for who is interested go here http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=mcomemeteorite Matteo M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.org Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com From mlblood at cox.net Mon Jun 1 17:57:12 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 14:57:12 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] announcement from Oz Dog In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Michael Back to using the desktop after a hard disk in one of the laptops went pearshaped... Havent set up email properly - just using webmail pro tem Can u let the list know I've upped some gorgeous pix of the MILES meteorite http://www.qmig.org ozdoggie - wrooof From fujmon at mac.com Mon Jun 1 18:59:15 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:59:15 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments Message-ID: Aloha, I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 worth of meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from Argentina. I had noticed the package felt light, but discovered that the US postal service is not responsible for thefts of the contents of international mailed items that are not insured. This shipment was not insured and so I will in all likelihood take the full brunt of this loss. Thievery by customs officials, foreign and domestic postal workers and other individuals or organized groups inside and outside the US is a possibility! I believe most packages arrive at their destinations with their contents intact, but feel it is negligent and at the very least unconscionable not to insure shipments at or above the full value of the contents. I know it costs more to do so, but please consider insurance especially for foreign shipments. Mailing specimen cards and paperwork separately from the meteorites can also prevent thieves from knowing what those "Mineral Samples" are. Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? I personally don't think so, unless I was given a choice and elected not to insure. I would hope that the seller (an IMCA member who, to his credit is working with me) would have a sudden rush of conscience and compensate, or share the loss with me, since his act of omission provides me with little if any recourse. What are my rights, and what can I do? Do other dealers insure their shipments? What is SOP? Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 1 19:17:35 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 16:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Scientists Find Evidence for Liquid Water on a Frozen Early Mars Message-ID: <200906012317.QAA01924@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.nasa.gov/topics/moonmars/features/mars_freeze_052709.html NASA Scientists Find Evidence for Liquid Water on a Frozen Early Mars 05.27.09 NASA scientists modeled freezing conditions on Mars to test whether liquid water could have been present to form the surface features of the Martian landscape. Evidence suggests flowing water formed the rivers and gullies on the Mars surface, even though surface temperatures were below freezing. Dissolved minerals in liquid water may be the reason. Photo Credit: NASA Researchers report that fluids loaded with dissolved minerals containing elements such as silicon, iron, magnesium, potassium and aluminum, can remain in a liquid state at temperatures well below freezing. The results of this research appear in the May 21 issue of Nature magazine entitled "Stability Against Freezing of Aqueous Solutions on Early Mars." "We found that the salts in water solutions can reduce the melting point of water, which may help explain how liquid water existed in a frozen Martian environment," said Alberto Fair??n, a space scientist at NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif. and the lead author of the study. To understand what formed the surface features on Mars, scientists have focused on the early Martian conditions. Was early Mars warm and wet, or cold and dry? Surface features throughout most of the Martian landscape suggest the presence of water ponds ranging from seas to lakes, and rivers and gullies formed by flowing water, which imply that early Mars was wet. But there also is some evidence that suggests that Mars may have been permanently cold, with global temperatures well below the freezing point of pure water. To study the 'liquidity' of water on Mars, climate modelers first simulated various concentrations of greenhouse gases in its atmosphere. They found that these gases cannot efficiently raise the surface temperature above freezing. A greenhouse atmosphere produced by carbon dioxide and water would have been saturated well below freezing. In addition, the amount of methane needed to raise the surface temperature above freezing, implies the planet had a terrestrial-like biological source for its methane supply, according to previous investigations. Scientists then took another approach and looked at water solutions containing weathering basalts, similar to those seen at the Mars landing sites. They calculated these fluids' freezing points and evaporative processes. Results showed that a significant amount of weathering fluids containing silicon, iron, magnesium, calcium, chloride, sodium, potassium and aluminum remain in the liquid at temperatures well below freezing. In addition, they studied the minerals that precipitated in the liquid solutions over time. These minerals are similar to those actually found on the Martian surface. Scientists concluded that salty liquid water on Mars may explain the stability of fluids against freezing on the Martian surface at temperatures below 0??C. "Our goal was to learn how a combination of different processes of evaporation and freezing affect the freezing point of a hypothetical Martian solution. We also wanted to see how the liquid phases formed and destabilized over the evolution of different solutions," added Alfonso Davila, a co-author of the paper at NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif. Ruth Dasso Marlaire Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif. From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 19:35:03 2009 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 16:35:03 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <468bf6050906011635x666d7e3i4601270f7f1a4f78@mail.gmail.com> Hi Gary sorry to hear about this loss. I will be interested to hear some of the non US dealers and sellers answer here. I know when I buy from other countries I use either Pay pal or a major credit card. I did one time have a problem with a decent sized Muonionalusta never arriving. So I reported this to the Credit card company and with little or no work they gave me the money back. The same is true of Pay pal if a shipment would arrive in part they have a process to go through designed to protect the buyer. I have never used the Pay pal buyer protection, but my customers have a couple times and it simply means the buyer gets their money back. EBay is the same way, if the buyer does not get the item they will get their money back. Seems like there is a pattern starting to develop here. Now this seller is not necessarily bound by these other companies but it is in their best interest to make sure the customer is satisfied with the out come of this transaction. A seller is only as good as his or her reputation and in our small community new travels very fast. Also many times when I ship fairly expensive items outside the US insurance is not even an option. The limits are small and I don't remember the numbers but they are no where near $1600. On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Gary Fujihara wrote: > Aloha, > > I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 worth of > meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from Argentina. ?I had > noticed the package felt light, but discovered that the US postal service is > not responsible for thefts of the contents of international mailed items > that are not insured. ?This shipment was not insured and so I will in all > likelihood take the full brunt of this loss. > > Thievery by customs officials, foreign and domestic postal workers and other > individuals or organized groups inside and outside the US is a possibility! > ?I believe most packages arrive at their destinations with their contents > intact, but feel it is negligent and at the very least unconscionable not to > insure shipments at or above the full value of the contents. ?I know it > costs more to do so, but please consider insurance especially for foreign > shipments. ?Mailing specimen cards and paperwork separately from the > meteorites can also prevent thieves from knowing what those "Mineral > Samples" are. > > Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? ?I > personally don't think so, unless I was given a choice and elected not to > insure. ?I would hope that the seller (an IMCA member who, to his credit is > working with me) would have a sudden rush of conscience and compensate, or > share the loss with me, since his act of omission provides me with little if > any recourse. ?What are my rights, and what can I do? ?Do other dealers > insure their shipments? ?What is SOP? > > Gary Fujihara > AstroDay Institute > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > http://astroday.net > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 1 20:43:40 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:43:40 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:59:15 -1000, you wrote: >I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 >worth of meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from >Argentina. ... >Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? Isn't it illegal now to export meteorites from Argentina (assuming this is a meteorite originating in Argentina, not simply meteortes from elsewhere provided by a seller there)? Okay, a little Googling, and it is just Campo del Cielo that is state-owned, and requires a duty be paid to export it: http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/2002M%26PSB..37....5S/0000006.000.html I would assume that in a situation (not saying that you were in that situation) where the shipment would have been concidered illegal (Campo del Cielo shipped without paying the export) it would be uninsurable anyway. From rhartman04 at earthlink.net Mon Jun 1 19:54:56 2009 From: rhartman04 at earthlink.net (R N Hartman) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 16:54:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments References: Message-ID: <000a01c9e314$5de30560$6401a8c0@DBZC5NB1> Aloha Gary, I'd also like to know more about seller's experiences collecting insurance from the USPS. They tell me that unless you can document a tangible basis for cost that you paid (invoice, receipts, etc.) you can not collect even though you hasve paid for insurance. This is difficult to do if you are the finder (I picked it up off the ground!) and seller of the specimen. Or, for example, you buy from a foreign source for 12 cts a gram a meteorite that turns out to be a Martian worth $2000/g., you can only collect the 12 cts. if it is lost in transit when you sell it. I think that you need to insist that the seller personally guarantee the value of the shipment either by insurance or otherwise, but have it be his responsibility. I doubt that you would have much luck collecting insurance from a foreign country yourself. And I don't think FedEx is much better. We had a tracked and signed parcel shipped to us from Switzerland once (membrane boxes) which Fed Ex delivered in error to an attorney's office in the Bahamas! FedEx tracked it and they lost it. Even though someone signed for it, they denied they recived it. Then it took several months before we could get FedEx to pay for the loss even though it was insured. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Fujihara" To: "MeteorList" Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:59 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments > > > I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 worth > of meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from Argentina. I > had noticed the package felt light, but discovered that the US postal > service is not responsible for thefts of the contents of international > mailed items that are not insured. This shipment was not insured and so > I will in all likelihood take the full brunt of this loss. > > Thievery by customs officials, foreign and domestic postal workers and > other individuals or organized groups inside and outside the US is a > possibility! I believe most packages arrive at their destinations with > their contents intact, but feel it is negligent and at the very least > unconscionable not to insure shipments at or above the full value of the > contents. I know it costs more to do so, but please consider insurance > especially for foreign shipments. Mailing specimen cards and paperwork > separately from the meteorites can also prevent thieves from knowing what > those "Mineral Samples" are. > > Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? I > personally don't think so, unless I was given a choice and elected not to > insure. I would hope that the seller (an IMCA member who, to his credit > is working with me) would have a sudden rush of conscience and > compensate, or share the loss with me, since his act of omission provides > me with little if any recourse. What are my rights, and what can I do? > Do other dealers insure their shipments? What is SOP? > > Gary Fujihara > AstroDay Institute > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > http://astroday.net > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteorites at optushome.com.au Mon Jun 1 20:36:33 2009 From: meteorites at optushome.com.au (Norbert & Heike Kammel) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 10:36:33 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A247411.3000901@optushome.com.au> Aloha Gary, G'Day List, in the interest of the buyer, to avoid paying high import duties, we hardly state the correct contents (we state iron meteorites as 'native iron specimens) and declare a much lesser value, so the customer does not have to pay import tax. But that is a dual agreement between us and the customer. We recommend to insure, and if the customer refuses this, the package will be sent at his/her own risk. The sellers duty of care is generally fulfilled with lodging a well packed parcel at the post office. The customer knows the risk for not paying the additional money for insurance and for declaring a lesser value for the contents. Throughout our time of business we lost three packages, and in all cases we sent replacements at the same or better value at no costs for the customer. It may be a little too much asked for if the value is several thousand dollars. :-\ Please also keep in mind that to some destinations it cannot be insured for. In the interest of our business we will always endeavour to keep our customers satisfied and are very proud of our unblemished reputation. These are just our thoughts in this matter. Best regards from Down-Under, Norbert Kammel IMCA # 3420 www.rocksonfire.com Gary Fujihara wrote: > Aloha, > > I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 > worth of meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from > Argentina. I had noticed the package felt light, but discovered that > the US postal service is not responsible for thefts of the contents of > international mailed items that are not insured. This shipment was > not insured and so I will in all likelihood take the full brunt of > this loss. > > Thievery by customs officials, foreign and domestic postal workers and > other individuals or organized groups inside and outside the US is a > possibility! I believe most packages arrive at their destinations > with their contents intact, but feel it is negligent and at the very > least unconscionable not to insure shipments at or above the full > value of the contents. I know it costs more to do so, but please > consider insurance especially for foreign shipments. Mailing specimen > cards and paperwork separately from the meteorites can also prevent > thieves from knowing what those "Mineral Samples" are. > > Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? I > personally don't think so, unless I was given a choice and elected not > to insure. I would hope that the seller (an IMCA member who, to his > credit is working with me) would have a sudden rush of conscience and > compensate, or share the loss with me, since his act of omission > provides me with little if any recourse. What are my rights, and what > can I do? Do other dealers insure their shipments? What is SOP? > > Gary Fujihara > AstroDay Institute > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > http://astroday.net > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From lintonius at earthlink.net Tue Jun 2 00:51:59 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:51:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? Message-ID: Thank you, Erik. Based on that, I'll try to find myself a Gold Bug II, but if I come across a good deal on the original model, that might be fine to get started with. Linton Erik Fisler erikfwebb at msn.com Mon Jun 1 04:14:52 EDT 2009 Previous message: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? Next message: [meteorite-list] announcement from Oz Dog Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] The second version has a substantially higher frequency so it's really hot on metal. John Wolfe's can pick up some gold basin L's and Palo Verde Mine L's that a GMT can't. He showed me some very nice specimen gold too. With my Dad's Gold Bug Origional, I have found bird shot 8 inches deep, as loud as a wistle. Either one is good on meteorites but I would sugest paying for the version two. [Erik] > From: lintonius at earthlink.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 23:57:23 -0700 > Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > > Greetings listees. > I know some of you prefer to use the Fisher Gold Bug II metal detectors. > I've been watching for a "pre-owned model" and what I'm wondering is... > Is the difference between the Gold Bug II and the original subtle, or > substantial? > Should I bother with the original at a good price, or hold out for the > newer > model? > Either way, this will be my first detector. Any advice would be highly > appreciated. > Thank you. > Linton From mikewren at gilanet.com Tue Jun 2 01:06:37 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:06:37 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2E328F72-887A-4002-8698-35887BDA6999@gilanet.com> Hello, A quick side note about Fisher Gold Bug's I and II . I have both and sometimes I can't tell the difference between the two. I use my old one -GB1, 80% of the time. In fact, I found over 1 1/2 ounces of gold nuggets this week. Better yet, in WEST, Texas I found nearly 200 grams of complete stones with my Gold Bug 1, found them in the tall grass. Even though West (Ash Creek), is an L6, the Gold Bug picked them up. I have 6 metal detectors, and the Gold Bug I and II were the only ones that would pick up the West meteorite. I would easily recommend an older Fisher Gold Bug 1, make sure it comes with a manual though and expect to spend some real time getting use to it. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On Jun 1, 2009, at 9:51 PM, Linton Rohr wrote: > Thank you, Erik. > Based on that, I'll try to find myself a Gold Bug II, > but if I come across a good deal on the original model, > that might be fine to get started with. > Linton > > > Erik Fisler erikfwebb at msn.com > Mon Jun 1 04:14:52 EDT 2009 > Previous message: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > Next message: [meteorite-list] announcement from Oz Dog > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > > The second version has a substantially higher frequency so it's > really hot on metal. > John Wolfe's can pick up some gold basin L's and Palo Verde Mine L's > that a GMT can't. > He showed me some very nice specimen gold too. > > With my Dad's Gold Bug Origional, I have found bird shot 8 inches > deep, as loud as a wistle. > Either one is good on meteorites but I would sugest paying for the > version two. > > [Erik] > >> From: lintonius at earthlink.net > >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 23:57:23 -0700 > >> Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > >> > >> Greetings listees. > >> I know some of you prefer to use the Fisher Gold Bug II metal >> detectors. > >> I've been watching for a "pre-owned model" and what I'm wondering >> is... > >> Is the difference between the Gold Bug II and the original subtle, or > >> substantial? > >> Should I bother with the original at a good price, or hold out for >> the newer > >> model? > >> Either way, this will be my first detector. Any advice would be >> highly > >> appreciated. > >> Thank you. > >> Linton > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From lintonius at earthlink.net Tue Jun 2 01:20:12 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:20:12 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? Message-ID: <75388F73D77244CF867DA068D25F068E@D190TH71> Thank you, Michael. That's very interesting. And quite helpful. The Gold Bug I tends to go for a little less. I've just quit working and may have enough free time now to do a little hunting. :^) Linton __________________________________ michael cottingham mikewren at gilanet.com Tue Jun 2 01:06:37 EDT 2009 Previous message: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello, A quick side note about Fisher Gold Bug's I and II . I have both and sometimes I can't tell the difference between the two. I use my old one -GB1, 80% of the time. In fact, I found over 1 1/2 ounces of gold nuggets this week. Better yet, in WEST, Texas I found nearly 200 grams of complete stones with my Gold Bug 1, found them in the tall grass. Even though West (Ash Creek), is an L6, the Gold Bug picked them up. I have 6 metal detectors, and the Gold Bug I and II were the only ones that would pick up the West meteorite. I would easily recommend an older Fisher Gold Bug 1, make sure it comes with a manual though and expect to spend some real time getting use to it. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From erikfwebb at msn.com Tue Jun 2 01:36:40 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:36:40 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? In-Reply-To: <75388F73D77244CF867DA068D25F068E@D190TH71> References: <75388F73D77244CF867DA068D25F068E@D190TH71> Message-ID: Michael, they both can pick up an L6 Chondrite but the gold bug origional will have more of a problem with basalt like at Gold Basin or Franconia. The higher frequency makes a big difference when in hot ground. [Erik] > From: lintonius at earthlink.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:20:12 -0700 > Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > > > Thank you, Michael. > That's very interesting. And quite helpful. > The Gold Bug I tends to go for a little less. > I've just quit working and may have enough free time now to do a little > hunting. :^) > Linton > > __________________________________ > > > michael cottingham mikewren at gilanet.com > Tue Jun 2 01:06:37 EDT 2009 > Previous message: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > > Hello, > > A quick side note about Fisher Gold Bug's I and II . I have both and > sometimes I can't tell the difference between the two. I use my old > one -GB1, 80% of the time. In fact, I found over 1 1/2 ounces of gold > nuggets this week. > > Better yet, in WEST, Texas I found nearly 200 grams of complete stones > with my Gold Bug 1, found them in the tall grass. Even though West > (Ash Creek), is an L6, the Gold Bug picked them up. I have 6 metal > detectors, and the Gold Bug I and II were the only ones that would > pick up the West meteorite. I would easily recommend an older Fisher > Gold Bug 1, make sure it comes with a manual though and expect to > spend some real time getting use to it. > > Best Wishes > > Michael Cottingham > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From zneutronz at aol.com Tue Jun 2 06:20:09 2009 From: zneutronz at aol.com (zneutronz at aol.com) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 06:20:09 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA4483 lunar meteorite Message-ID: <8CBB182D7BDB6EB-F50-353C@webmail-mh31.sysops.aol.com> hola members ! as there is a crisis and i really need fast money i offer : NWA 4483, 5.612g End cut, lunar granulitic i sell it for 490 dollar per gram. i payed much more ! if you are interested please contact me ! regards, oliver ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Tue Jun 2 11:36:42 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (star_wars_collector at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 08:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD- Camel Donga, Tatahouine, NWA 4734, NWA 5480 Achondrite sale Message-ID: <439664.27498.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi to all, I have alot of very nice achondrites listed on ebay for sale. Some of the items include: NWA 4734 - Lunar - 3 slices left! NWA 5480 - Olivine Diogenite Camel Donga - Eucrite - whole stones slices and endcuts for $30 per gram Tatahouine - Diogenite - up to 2.7g L'Aigle - Historic fall - Last one! and a few other nice meteorites. Many items include free shipping. Visit my ebay page here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZstar_wars_coiiectorQQhtZ-1 Thanks for looking, hope everyone has a great day! Greg C. From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Tue Jun 2 11:51:53 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 17:51:53 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - looking for Walter Branch & Laurent Jaworsky Message-ID: <003a01c9e39a$0d7c79e0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Sorry for disturbing. Walter, Laurent - please contact me immediately. Thanks! Martin From gmhupe at htn.net Tue Jun 2 12:00:24 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 12:00:24 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zaklodzie-like NWA 4301 and Ocate - AD Message-ID: Dear List Members, To satisfy a number of requests for smaller, more affordable specimens of the new "Zaklodzie-like" NWA 4301, I put on eBay about a dozen pieces which will end tomorrow, Wednesday, June 3rd. Also ending are very generous-sized achondrites including; Howardites, Angrites, Brachinites, Mesos, Lunars, Martians, Olivine Diogenites and more excellent deals... Click here to see all of my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Concerning the new iron from New Mexico, Ocate, which is not on eBay, there are only five specimens left. They are: Ocate, New Mexico IAB-MG iron meteorite 910g end cut http://www.lunarrock.com/ocate/specimens/nm910a.jpg http://www.lunarrock.com/ocate/specimens/nm910b.jpg 208.2g cs 4mm http://www.lunarrock.com/ocate/specimens/dsc00004.jpg 191g cs 4mm http://www.lunarrock.com/ocate/specimens/dsc00005.jpg 162.9g ps 6.5mm http://www.lunarrock.com/ocate/specimens/dsc00008.jpg 162.8g cs 3.5mm http://www.lunarrock.com/ocate/specimens/dsc00009.jpg cs - complete slice ps - part slice I am asking just $4.00/g plus shipping, so if you are interested, please contact me Off-List. Thank you! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From lintonius at earthlink.net Tue Jun 2 12:07:48 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 09:07:48 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? References: <75388F73D77244CF867DA068D25F068E@D190TH71> Message-ID: <26602C41487744FA9192CDC30B222597@D190TH71> Thank you, Dennis. I found that switching my format from rich text (HTML) to plain text got my messages to go through. Give it a try. Linton ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Miller To: lintonius at earthlink.net Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 8:41 AM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? Linton, I have been unable to get on this blog, but if you would ask the group for some tuning tips for the Gold bug? I like my GB II but hear that there are some techneques for tuning for low metal meteorites... Thanks! Dennis > From: lintonius at earthlink.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:20:12 -0700 > Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > > > Thank you, Michael. > That's very interesting. And quite helpful. > The Gold Bug I tends to go for a little less. > I've just quit working and may have enough free time now to do a little > hunting. :^) > Linton > > __________________________________ > > > michael cottingham mikewren at gilanet.com > Tue Jun 2 01:06:37 EDT 2009 > Previous message: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > > Hello, > > A quick side note about Fisher Gold Bug's I and II . I have both and > sometimes I can't tell the difference between the two. I use my old > one -GB1, 80% of the time. In fact, I found over 1 1/2 ounces of gold > nuggets this week. > > Better yet, in WEST, Texas I found nearly 200 grams of complete stones > with my Gold Bug 1, found them in the tall grass. Even though West > (Ash Creek), is an L6, the Gold Bug picked them up. I have 6 metal > detectors, and the Gold Bug I and II were the only ones that would > pick up the West meteorite. I would easily recommend an older Fisher > Gold Bug 1, make sure it comes with a manual though and expect to > spend some real time getting use to it. > > Best Wishes > > Michael Cottingham > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com Tue Jun 2 14:20:43 2009 From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (meteoritefinder at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 11:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] " Superbolide " from 5-31-09 Message-ID: <61308.59959.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello List, ? ? If you haven't already read about this "superbolide" from 5-31-09, you might find it interesting. This is from the spaceweather web site.? They have two links. One shows a VERY short movie of the event, and the other is a link for more info. " BLINDING FLASH: On May 31st, evening sky watchers in northern Poland were temporarily blinded by a sudden flash of light brighter than the full Moon. An automated camera in the town of Gniewowo captured this snapshot of the "un-night" sky: What happened? A meteoroid of unknown origin hit Earth's atmosphere and exploded. "It was a huge fireball, probably brighter than magnitude -13," reports Gniewowo resident Przemyslaw Zoladek. "The explosion occured at 20:48 UT and was observed by many casual witnesses and at least two Polish Fireball Network video stations." No one knows if fragments of the object reached the ground. " ? Best wishes, ? Robert Woolard From tektites at googlemail.com Tue Jun 2 15:31:03 2009 From: tektites at googlemail.com (Aubrey Whymark) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:31:03 +0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it makes it tempting to steal. 'Mineral specimen for research' is accurate and yet far less tempting to steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full value. When I have stuff sent to the Philippines I like a low value as again it reduces the risk of theft (although I have never experienced a problem). The main problem I have is that if a high value is declared then I have to pay import duties, and various other taxes and post office expenses that basically convert a bargain ebay purchase into very expense deal - almost to the point that it's not worth picking up, due to the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites and then had to pay $60 to the post office to get them! Aubrey From lintonius at earthlink.net Tue Jun 2 16:34:33 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 13:34:33 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] METEORITE signs (NOT an ad) Message-ID: <0D1BADE0B3BF4E3991A0FFD34D7EB77C@D190TH71> Cool. I just ordered a couple signs to alert people at star parties that I have meteorites on display. I've been taking a couple (or more) display cases along to my astronomy club's star parties, especially the public ones. But people often walk right by without noticing. These yellow signs, with engraved black print will fix that. In large letters across the top: METEORITES Smaller type, underneath: see and touch Rocks from Space! That should get their attention.! I just love showing them. I should have these in time for the Grand Canyon Star Party, one of my favorite events of the year. :^) Now all I have to do is set up well before dark! Linton From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 17:45:07 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 17:45:07 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] METEORITE signs (NOT an ad) In-Reply-To: <0D1BADE0B3BF4E3991A0FFD34D7EB77C@D190TH71> References: <0D1BADE0B3BF4E3991A0FFD34D7EB77C@D190TH71> Message-ID: Good luck Linton, let us know how it goes. I plan on doing the same thing very soon. :) Star parties + astronomers = meteorite customers. Regards and clear skies, MikeG On 6/2/09, Linton Rohr wrote: > Cool. > I just ordered a couple signs to alert people at star parties that I have > meteorites on display. I've been taking a couple (or more) display cases > along to my astronomy club's star parties, especially the public ones. But > people often walk right by without noticing. These yellow signs, with > engraved black print will fix that. > In large letters across the top: METEORITES > Smaller type, underneath: see and touch Rocks from Space! > That should get their attention.! I just love showing them. > I should have these in time for the Grand Canyon Star Party, one of my > favorite events of the year. :^) > Now all I have to do is set up well before dark! > Linton > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 2 18:34:41 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:34:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Aubrey and List, One package I received labelled "Mineral Specimens" was taxed as vitamins. Another package I received labelled "Meteorites" was taxed as antiques! I have never had a problem with (what the vast majority of sellers use) "Rock Specimens for Scientific Study", with little or no monetary value. For what it's worth, Pete ---------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:31:03 +0300 > From: tektites at googlemail.com > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments > > I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it makes it tempting > to steal. 'Mineral specimen for research' is accurate and yet far less > tempting to steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full value. When I > have stuff sent to the Philippines I like a low value as again it > reduces the risk of theft (although I have never experienced a > problem). The main problem I have is that if a high value is declared > then I have to pay import duties, and various other taxes and post > office expenses that basically convert a bargain ebay purchase into > very expense deal - almost to the point that it's not worth picking > up, due to the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites and then had to > pay $60 to the post office to get them! > > Aubrey > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 18:40:38 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:40:38 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Pete and List, When shipping meteorites outside the US, I declare them as "mineral specimens for study". Most of the overseas dealers I buy from mark their forms in a similar manner. I rarely, if ever, see "meteorite" on the declaration form. Best regards, MikeG On 6/2/09, Pete Pete wrote: > > > Hi, Aubrey and List, > > One package I received labelled "Mineral Specimens" was taxed as vitamins. > > Another package I received labelled "Meteorites" was taxed as antiques! > > I have never had a problem with (what the vast majority of sellers use) > "Rock Specimens for Scientific Study", with little or no monetary value. > > For what it's worth, > Pete > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:31:03 +0300 >> From: tektites at googlemail.com >> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your >> shipments >> >> I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it makes it tempting >> to steal. 'Mineral specimen for research' is accurate and yet far less >> tempting to steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full value. When I >> have stuff sent to the Philippines I like a low value as again it >> reduces the risk of theft (although I have never experienced a >> problem). The main problem I have is that if a high value is declared >> then I have to pay import duties, and various other taxes and post >> office expenses that basically convert a bargain ebay purchase into >> very expense deal - almost to the point that it's not worth picking >> up, due to the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites and then had to >> pay $60 to the post office to get them! >> >> Aubrey >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From gmhupe at htn.net Tue Jun 2 19:20:07 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:20:07 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Martian - NWA 5789 - The One That Got Away! Message-ID: <00D94CB4FF42457BB2857E23012ADB05@Gregor> Dear List Members, I would like to announce a new Martian meteorite, NWA 5789 (Provisional), the one that got away... mostly! NWA 5789 is currently under study and so far has been described as an Anomalous Shergottite Martian meteorite. This new meteorite has a very low Total Known Weight (TKW) of just 49 grams in three main fragments. I sent a small type sample to the University of Washington who confirmed (NWA 5789) to be a new Martian meteorite with a 99% certainty. Wanting 100% certainty, I sent an additional sample for oxygen isotope analysis, which proved it to be authentic. While waiting for this final analysis, I was negotiating with the Moroccan owner and we were almost at an agreement (or at least I thought). To my dismay, after informing the Moroccan that the material was indeed Martian, he never intended to sell me the material and was shopping it around, leaving me acquiring just 1.8 grams. He only wanted to use me for our quick scientific connections to get material confirmed and/or classified. This is one of the problems when working with Moroccans, you occasionally get the short end of the stick! Not knowing if the additional 47.2 grams would surface or ever be available to collectors, I asked that an NWA number be requested for the 1.8 grams and the next day, "NWA 5789" was assigned to this small amount. Approximately three weeks after this date, it was discovered that the extra 47.2 grams was purchased by a European group (Martin/Stefan). Upon learning of this news, it was agreed by all parties to include the extra 47.2 grams under the designation, "NWA 5789", for a TKW of 49 grams. To say that I was disappointed with the Moroccan for his greedy and underhanded actions would be an understatement, but at least the additional material has been accounted for! NWA 5789 resembles Yamato 980459, as commented on by a well-known planetary collector. Image of 30.5-gram NWA 5789 fragment: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa5789/nwa5789-30_5g.jpg Image of broken face of 1.328-gram fragment: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa5789/nwa5789interior.jpg The lead scientist wrote after examining the first sample of (NWA 5789): "GH-367 (NWA 5789) appears to be a very mafic (or even ultramafic) shergottite consisting of small olivine phenocrysts and small orthopyroxene phenocrysts in a finer grained groundmass composed mainly of prismatic pigeonite grains, chromite, pyrrhotite, and mesostasis regions composed of laminar intergrowths (some sheaf-like) of pigeonite, intermediate plagioclase (possibly NOT maskelynite), silica, ilmenite and merrillite." "This specimen is unlike any other, in that it has very little plagioclase, yet it is texturally different from "lherzolitic" shergottites. I believe that it may be a new type of Martian igneous rock." NOTE: You will notice a slight change in the weights in this email compared to the ones I quoted in my eight eBay auctions of NWA 5789, currently running. I just confirmed the total known weight with the classifying scientist. Best regards, Greg Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From astroroks at hotmail.com Tue Jun 2 20:24:32 2009 From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:24:32 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Testing 123 Message-ID: Just a quick test... _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Tue Jun 2 20:36:33 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 1:36:33 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Trying to contact Zelimir about Ensisheim Show, transport hotels etc. In-Reply-To: <8CBB182D7BDB6EB-F50-353C@webmail-mh31.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20090603013633.1I2V0.378.root@web07-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi, Has anyone got Zelimir's email address...or if you are out there reading this, Zelimir, I was wondering if the official flier for Ensisheim had been produced...or have I missed that post? Was thinking of coming and wanted to know your reccomendations for nearest airport, transport and hotels etc. Regards, Graham Ensor, UK From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Tue Jun 2 21:01:07 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 2:01:07 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Trying to contact Zelimir about Ensisheim Show, transport hotels etc. Message-ID: <20090603020107.RYVR4.449.root@web07-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi, Has anyone got Zelimir's email address...or if you are out there reading this, Zelimir, I was wondering if the official flier for Ensisheim had been produced...or have I missed that post? Was thinking of coming and wanted to know your reccomendations for nearest airport, transport and hotels etc. Regards, Graham Ensor, UK From John at Cabassi.net Tue Jun 2 22:16:25 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:16:25 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c9e3f1$4cbbf660$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2> G'Day List Ahh, mailing problems. It's interesting that this should pop up on the same day that I also received a package from Argentina. It possibly could have been from the same supplier. But my package was also tampered with, either by mechanical sources due to sorting or human influence, but whatever it was, it only managed to open half the package. Maybe the machine broke down or the human was interrupted. Either way, I did not lose anything. As for declarations, I don't sell, but from time to time, I give some away and I always put "No Value" and "Mineral Specimen" But for the first time, this package from Argentina had the full value and on the green declaration stamp it is written "Rocks for study without commercial value - meteorites" But the value was also included. This is the first time this has ever happened to me. Cheers John -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic Stone & Ironworks Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 3:41 PM To: Pete Pete Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments Hi Pete and List, When shipping meteorites outside the US, I declare them as "mineral specimens for study". Most of the overseas dealers I buy from mark their forms in a similar manner. I rarely, if ever, see "meteorite" on the declaration form. Best regards, MikeG On 6/2/09, Pete Pete wrote: > > > Hi, Aubrey and List, > > One package I received labelled "Mineral Specimens" was taxed as > vitamins. > > Another package I received labelled "Meteorites" was taxed as > antiques! > > I have never had a problem with (what the vast majority of sellers > use) "Rock Specimens for Scientific Study", with little or no monetary > value. > > For what it's worth, > Pete > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:31:03 +0300 >> From: tektites at googlemail.com >> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your >> shipments >> >> I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it makes it >> tempting to steal. 'Mineral specimen for research' is accurate and >> yet far less tempting to steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full >> value. When I have stuff sent to the Philippines I like a low value >> as again it reduces the risk of theft (although I have never >> experienced a problem). The main problem I have is that if a high >> value is declared then I have to pay import duties, and various other >> taxes and post office expenses that basically convert a bargain ebay >> purchase into very expense deal - almost to the point that it's not >> worth picking up, due to the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites >> and then had to pay $60 to the post office to get them! >> >> Aubrey >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at mcomemeteorite.it Wed Jun 3 00:11:47 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 06:11:47 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments Message-ID: <4a25f803.29.27b6.1024564064@webmaildh6.aruba.it> Depend, the unique time I have insured a pack this is go lost immediatly...never again Matteo ----- Original Message ----- Da : "John.L.Cabassi" A : "'meteoritelist meteoritelist'" Oggetto : Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments Data : Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:16:25 -0700 > G'Day List > Ahh, mailing problems. It's interesting that this should > pop up on the same day that I also received a package from > Argentina. It possibly could have been from the same > supplier. But my package was also tampered with, either by > mechanical sources due to sorting or human influence, but > whatever it was, it only managed to open half the package. > Maybe the machine broke down or the human was interrupted. > Either way, I did not lose anything. > > As for declarations, I don't sell, but from time to time, > I give some away and I always put "No Value" and "Mineral > Specimen" But for the first time, this package from > Argentina had the full value and on the green declaration > stamp it is written "Rocks for study without commercial > value - meteorites" But the value was also included. This > is the first time this has ever happened to me. > > Cheers > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On > Behalf Of Galactic Stone & Ironworks > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 3:41 PM > To: Pete Pete > Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please > INSURE your shipments > > > Hi Pete and List, > > When shipping meteorites outside the US, I declare them as > "mineral specimens for study". > > Most of the overseas dealers I buy from mark their forms > in a similar manner. > > I rarely, if ever, see "meteorite" on the declaration > form. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > On 6/2/09, Pete Pete wrote: > > > > > > Hi, Aubrey and List, > > > > One package I received labelled "Mineral Specimens" was > > taxed as vitamins. > > > > Another package I received labelled "Meteorites" was > > taxed as antiques! > > > > I have never had a problem with (what the vast majority > > of sellers use) "Rock Specimens for Scientific Study", > with little or no monetary > > > value. > > > > For what it's worth, > > Pete > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > >> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:31:03 +0300 > >> From: tektites at googlemail.com > >> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please > INSURE your >> shipments > >> > >> I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it > makes it >> tempting to steal. 'Mineral specimen for > research' is accurate and >> yet far less tempting to > steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full > > >> value. When I have stuff sent to the Philippines I like > a low value >> as again it reduces the risk of theft > (although I have never >> experienced a problem). The > main problem I have is that if a high >> value is > declared then I have to pay import duties, and various > other > > >> taxes and post office expenses that basically convert a > bargain ebay >> purchase into very expense deal - almost > to the point that it's not >> worth picking up, due to > the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites >> and then > had to pay $60 to the post office to get them! >> > >> Aubrey > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __________________________________________________________ > > _______ Windows Live helps you keep up with all your > > friends, in one place. > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing > > list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > -- > ........................................................ > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > ......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing > list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.org Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jun 3 01:30:40 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 01:30:40 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Brenham Meteorite Offering Message-ID: Hello List, I am looking to generate some cash and so I am considering selling one of my larger Brenham specimens on Ebay. But before I list them there, I wanted to make a more private offering (read: avoid Ebay commissions) thus this announcement. I have several Brenham specimens in my inventory including, but not limited to: 351 pound Oriented Brenham Pallasite. This amazing specimen displays an awesome shield shape with a concave back side. I can only think of one large Brenham specimen nicer! 90 pound "Becky Stone" Oriented Brenham Pallasite featured "TV Star" from Travel Channel's Cash and Treasures Meteorite Hunting episode. An incredible bullet shaped meteorite specimen that has everything going for it. At this size, this is as good as it can get! Killer looking rock! 82 pound "Traveler" Brenham Pallasite featured "TV Star" from Travel Channel's Cash and Treasures Meteorite Hunting episode. Not oriented like the "Becky Stone" but priced lower due to the more rounded yet still very representative shape. Others are also available. Some photos can be seen here: _http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/_ (http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/) Serious inquiries only, please. Contact me off list for more information. Steve Arnold Arkansas **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml cntnew00000007) From marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl Wed Jun 3 01:56:42 2009 From: marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl (Marco Langbroek) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 07:56:42 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments Message-ID: <4A26109A.7090205@wanadoo.nl> > One package I received labelled "Mineral Specimens" was taxed as vitamins. > > Another package I received labelled "Meteorites" was taxed as antiques! I have had one small slice of Enstatite chondrite declared "pottery for decoration" (and taxed accordingly) by customs once :-p - Marco ----- Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) e-mail: dms at marcolangbroek.nl http://www.dmsweb.org http://www.marcolangbroek.nl ----- From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jun 3 03:38:22 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 00:38:22 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: AD #1 June: Auctions Ending Today and Sale In My Ebay Store References: Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: michael cottingham > Date: June 2, 2009 10:01:13 PM GMT-07:00 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: AD #1 June: Auctions Ending Today and Sale In My Ebay Store > > > Hello, > > It has been awhile. I have been in the field a lot lately. Recovered > some new and interesting meteorites from Eastern New Mexico and > Texas. One should be ready soon and that is the unusual Griffith, > Ataxite. I was finally able to get the finder to let the rest of it > go and I was able to keep them from making jewelry out of it. Man oh > man that was a hard recovery. More on that when the slices are ready. > > Here are my auction Highlights for the week: > > (NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 50g, Really nice specimen! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346574379 > > New Fall- TAMDAKHT, H5, 34.4 gram, With Crust, Super specimen. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346574609 > > Superb WAGON MOUND, New Mexico, 162.12 gram **** Nice LARGE slice. I > owned all of this meteorite once upon a time! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346574934 > > Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 3.31g, Almost my last > specimen.... > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346575085 > > Rare & Low TKW, DAVY (B), Texas, H4, 3.31g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346575266 > > (New) Olivine Diogenite-NWA 5480, 8.91 gram, A Great Specimen! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346575568 > > (New) CV3, NWA 5546 From Africa, 24.93 gram, BIG PIECE! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346580117 > > Nice Slice of OUM DREYGA, Fall, H3-5, 32.79g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346581039 > > (NEW), LA LUZ, New Mexico, H4, LTKW, 4.19g, One Of My LAST > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346581214 > > Witnessed Fall THUATHE, Lesotho, 20.39 g, Really Nice Specimen! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346582206 > > NOYAN-BOGDO, L6, Rare Mongolian Fall- 0.18g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346583198 > > Rare Type, H3.5, WELLMAN (f), Texas, 4.92g, Actually a Beautiful > Part Slice-Take A Look! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346583981 > > Rare Carbonaceous CO3.6, NWA 1277, 1.60 gram > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346584344 > > Almost Out, NWA 4755, Diogenite, 2.04g, Actually this is the last > one... > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346585554 > > (NEW), NWA 5534, L5-6, 81.39 gram, Last Specimen to Offer! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346585840 > > (Ash Creek) or WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 1.98g- THIS IS BEAUTIFUL! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346588260 > > A very Rare EL3 From Africa, NWA 2965, 96g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346589398 > > > There is also a sale in my ebay store that is most certainly worth a > look.... > > Best Wishes and Thanks > > Michael Cottingham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Wed Jun 3 04:07:55 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 10:07:55 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Insuring shipments: fors & againsts In-Reply-To: <4a25f803.29.27b6.1024564064@webmaildh6.aruba.it> References: <4a25f803.29.27b6.1024564064@webmaildh6.aruba.it> Message-ID: <200906030807.n5387rEo012905@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> I must agree with Matteo. Whenever I had insured some parcel containing mineral or meteorite samples (I insure on very, very rare occasions), although the packs were not lost, I had problems in - delays (packs quenched at the customs for long, long time), - taxes to pay (sometimes "prohibitive", though I agree it is a minor problem far less harmful than loosing the precious stuff) - and mostly through checking the contents by the "cautious" customs officers! Indeed, I use to say that they probably "play basketball" with our beloved (and fragile!) samples, by handling them without any care. Imagine the tiny slices resistance.... And this, not counting their wet and greasy hands running all throughout the fragile irons. Something to wake up for sure any dormant Lawrencite (or alike) disease! This being, and as I suggest to most of my suppliers (especially from the US) with whom I have business since decades, please just put on the customs green tag: "(geological) ROCKS for (scientific) study (research), no commercial value" (options in parenthesis) This means the supplier obviously should never write on the customs tag (declaration sheet) "METEORITE" but also not "MINERAL" either (mineral specimens are known by customs to have a commercial value!). Indeed, what resembles better a meteorite than a "simple geological ROCK" ?. A basalt is a basalt and I defy any customs officer to discern its Martian, Vestan or Terrestrial origin ("who is that Mrs Vesta ?") Believe me this always worked so far with 100% efficiency. Not any loss noticed for hundreds, perhaps thousands of transactions since...the early 1980's (mostly minerals at the time, as meteorites started to be sent that way since 1992) Well, this is of course a statistic statement, neither a suggestion, certainly not an advice (imagine my responsibility!) for any of you. I therefore also always specify in a selected way the procedure to adopt for each particular trade or purchase, in full agreement between the supplier. And I also respect the customer's suggestions (whatever they be) when I send my own stuff. Logically, if I suggest not to insure the parcel, it is entirely at my own responsibility and I fully accept to take the risk. Luckily this never resulted to a loss. Better, parcels always arrived rapidly without any checking (in 99+ % cases) Of course I may possibly benefit from my position as "teacher and researcher in a mineral chemistry lab", but yet, I also never got any loss or damage when parcels are sent at my private address as well (here again, as I live in a small village, I might be known as an eccentric or "lunatic" collector of "ugly rocks"...but still...). Understand me well, I neither prone or discourage insuring parcels, just wanting to describe some "fors and againsts" regarding insuring parcels containing our beloved and so precious ROCKS (from space!). Each case is different, risk zero does not exist and custom officer's behaviors are just unpredictable, especially in these crazy and uncertain times...! Good luck and thanks everybody for past and future comments on this important topic. Zelimir At 06:11 03/06/2009, M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote: >Depend, the unique time I have insured a pack this is go >lost immediatly...never again > >Matteo > > > >----- Original Message ----- >Da : "John.L.Cabassi" >A : "'meteoritelist meteoritelist'" > >Oggetto : Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please >INSURE your shipments >Data : Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:16:25 -0700 > > > G'Day List > > Ahh, mailing problems. It's interesting that this should > > pop up on the same day that I also received a package from > > Argentina. It possibly could have been from the same > > supplier. But my package was also tampered with, either by > > mechanical sources due to sorting or human influence, but > > whatever it was, it only managed to open half the package. > > Maybe the machine broke down or the human was interrupted. > > Either way, I did not lose anything. > > > > As for declarations, I don't sell, but from time to time, > > I give some away and I always put "No Value" and "Mineral > > Specimen" But for the first time, this package from > > Argentina had the full value and on the green declaration > > stamp it is written "Rocks for study without commercial > > value - meteorites" But the value was also included. This > > is the first time this has ever happened to me. > > > > Cheers > > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On > > Behalf Of Galactic Stone & Ironworks > > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 3:41 PM > > To: Pete Pete > > Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please > > INSURE your shipments > > > > > > Hi Pete and List, > > > > When shipping meteorites outside the US, I declare them as > > "mineral specimens for study". > > > > Most of the overseas dealers I buy from mark their forms > > in a similar manner. > > > > I rarely, if ever, see "meteorite" on the declaration > > form. > > > > Best regards, > > > > MikeG > > > > > > On 6/2/09, Pete Pete wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, Aubrey and List, > > > > > > One package I received labelled "Mineral Specimens" was > > > taxed as vitamins. > > > > > > Another package I received labelled "Meteorites" was > > > taxed as antiques! > > > > > > I have never had a problem with (what the vast majority > > > of sellers use) "Rock Specimens for Scientific Study", > > with little or no monetary > > > > > value. > > > > > > For what it's worth, > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > >> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:31:03 +0300 > > >> From: tektites at googlemail.com > > >> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please > > INSURE your >> shipments > > >> > > >> I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it > > makes it >> tempting to steal. 'Mineral specimen for > > research' is accurate and >> yet far less tempting to > > steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full > > > > >> value. When I have stuff sent to the Philippines I like > > a low value >> as again it reduces the risk of theft > > (although I have never >> experienced a problem). The > > main problem I have is that if a high >> value is > > declared then I have to pay import duties, and various > > other > > > > >> taxes and post office expenses that basically convert a > > bargain ebay >> purchase into very expense deal - almost > > to the point that it's not >> worth picking up, due to > > the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites >> and then > > had to pay $60 to the post office to get them! >> > > >> Aubrey > > >> ______________________________________________ > > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __________________________________________________________ > > > _______ Windows Live helps you keep up with all your > > > friends, in one place. > > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing > > > list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > -- > > ........................................................ > > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > > http://www.glassthrower.com > > ......................................................... > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing > > list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >M come Meteorite Meteoriti >info at mcomemeteorite.it >http://www.mcomemeteorite.it >http://www.mcomemeteorite.org >Mindat Gallery >http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html >ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici >http://www.chinellatophoto.com >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Wed Jun 3 04:09:09 2009 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:09:09 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49606F6F@gamma.ssl.atw> Lets not mention 'the declared value thing' , best not to 'rock' the boat... :) -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Aubrey Whymark Sent: 02 June 2009 20:31 To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it makes it tempting to steal. 'Mineral specimen for research' is accurate and yet far less tempting to steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full value. When I have stuff sent to the Philippines I like a low value as again it reduces the risk of theft (although I have never experienced a problem). The main problem I have is that if a high value is declared then I have to pay import duties, and various other taxes and post office expenses that basically convert a bargain ebay purchase into very expense deal - almost to the point that it's not worth picking up, due to the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites and then had to pay $60 to the post office to get them! Aubrey ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From meteoritekid at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 04:29:49 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 01:29:49 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49606F6F@gamma.ssl.atw> References: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49606F6F@gamma.ssl.atw> Message-ID: <93aaac890906030129s3d07ab56vc8200bd7a96f7a23@mail.gmail.com> Hola All, Indeed, our package from Argentina was opened as well; though nothing went missing, the box's integrity was compromised, as there was no tape holding the bottom flap closed - it had all been cut, and looked as though it might well have been opened. It wasn't a basic box with two sets of two flaps - there was some interlocking cardboard to hold it together, but a good drop would have done it in. There was no note from customs stating that it had been gone through and the internal wrapping/padding looked untouched, but who knows... Regards, Jason On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Mark Ford wrote: > Lets not mention 'the declared value thing' , best not to 'rock' the > boat... :) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Aubrey > Whymark > Sent: 02 June 2009 20:31 > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your > shipments > > I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it makes it tempting > to steal. 'Mineral specimen for research' is accurate and yet far less > tempting to steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full value. When I > have stuff sent to the Philippines I like a low value as again it > reduces the risk of theft (although I have never experienced a > problem). The main problem I have is that if a high value is declared > then I have to pay import duties, and various other taxes and post > office expenses that basically convert a bargain ebay purchase into > very expense deal - almost to the point that it's not worth picking > up, due to the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites and then had to > pay $60 to the post office to get them! > > Aubrey > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. > > GENERAL STATEMENT: > > Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. > > Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From info at meteorites.com.au Wed Jun 3 06:10:43 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:10:43 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: <000001c9e3f1$4cbbf660$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2> References: <000001c9e3f1$4cbbf660$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2> Message-ID: G'day list, I've personally received many packages from Argentina and never had a problem. But I do have an interesting story about some packages that went to the US. This is going back a few years ago but on one occasion I sent TWO IDENTICAL packages which were both meteorites to the US at the SAME TIME. They were both sent using ECI which is an EMS international door to door courier. It is also trackable on-line through every step of the way down to the minute that each process happens. The packages were both packed in the same size box and put into the satchel. Both were given the description "Mineral/rock specimen for study" but one was insured for approx AUS$1400 dollars and the other was given a $0 value. They all went through the same processes within minutes of each other. Cleared through Australia and sent to the US, arriving at LAX, going to customs and then... gone!!! The $0 value went through to the receiver without problems but the $1400 package completely disappeared at LAX! (Neither package had any documentation either.) Insurance covered the stolen package but that's small comfort when a unique specimen was lost! Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "John.L.Cabassi" To: "'meteoritelist meteoritelist'" Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments > G'Day List > Ahh, mailing problems. It's interesting that this should pop up on the > same day that I also received a package from Argentina. It possibly > could have been from the same supplier. But my package was also tampered > with, either by mechanical sources due to sorting or human influence, > but whatever it was, it only managed to open half the package. Maybe the > machine broke down or the human was interrupted. Either way, I did not > lose anything. > > As for declarations, I don't sell, but from time to time, I give some > away and I always put "No Value" and "Mineral Specimen" But for the > first time, this package from Argentina had the full value and on the > green declaration stamp it is written "Rocks for study without > commercial value - meteorites" But the value was also included. This is > the first time this has ever happened to me. > > Cheers > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > Galactic Stone & Ironworks > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 3:41 PM > To: Pete Pete > Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your > shipments > > > Hi Pete and List, > > When shipping meteorites outside the US, I declare them as "mineral > specimens for study". > > Most of the overseas dealers I buy from mark their forms in a similar > manner. > > I rarely, if ever, see "meteorite" on the declaration form. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > On 6/2/09, Pete Pete wrote: >> >> >> Hi, Aubrey and List, >> >> One package I received labelled "Mineral Specimens" was taxed as >> vitamins. >> >> Another package I received labelled "Meteorites" was taxed as >> antiques! >> >> I have never had a problem with (what the vast majority of sellers >> use) "Rock Specimens for Scientific Study", with little or no monetary > >> value. >> >> For what it's worth, >> Pete >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------- >>> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:31:03 +0300 >>> From: tektites at googlemail.com >>> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your >>> shipments >>> >>> I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it makes it >>> tempting to steal. 'Mineral specimen for research' is accurate and >>> yet far less tempting to steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full > >>> value. When I have stuff sent to the Philippines I like a low value >>> as again it reduces the risk of theft (although I have never >>> experienced a problem). The main problem I have is that if a high >>> value is declared then I have to pay import duties, and various other > >>> taxes and post office expenses that basically convert a bargain ebay >>> purchase into very expense deal - almost to the point that it's not >>> worth picking up, due to the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites >>> and then had to pay $60 to the post office to get them! >>> >>> Aubrey >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. >> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jun 3 07:23:08 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:23:08 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: <000001c9e3f1$4cbbf660$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2> Message-ID: <001801c9e43d$ac496940$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hello list, maybe the Argentine problem is caused by the new legislation protecting meteorites from there? Shipping meteorites - nationally and internationally: It should be clear, what the receiver and the sender do want, for finding a compromise between safety, costs and speed. An insurance causes extra-fees. If internationally sent, it is not plausible, if a parcel has a high insurance value but a low or no value declared for customs. In that cases the receiver has to pay often taxes. A high value declared, can slow down the duration of the delivery and it invites to theft more than if nothing is given as value for the boring looking rock or lump of iron. (I remember a country, where, before it joined EU, people having to mail there, wrote even on normal letter: "Contains no money!"....). Some carriers explicitly refuse to insure something so irreplaceable like a meteorite. Although inconsistently, e.g. some firms refuse to do so from Germany to U.S., but the same firm allows an insurance in USA to Germany. Some firms refuse to insure parcels to certain countries. My recommendation: - Send your meteorites always registered, if the value isn't insignificant. Such shipments are better treated than standard shipping. - A very good possibility for overseas-shipments for very valuable specimens are the "courier" options, most carriers offer; of that type: delivery to overseas within 2 days, as these are handled with special care. - And finally with very, very, verrrrry valuable specimens, there the best option is, to deliver in person. Our experiences with shipping to U.S.: In all these years a single shipment was lost (the collector had moved). One parcel arrived after several months, but arrived. In general all shipments (if not a faster option was chosen) arrive in +/-7 days. One shipment out of 30-40 is delayed with 2-4 weeks for unknown reasons. The other direction to Germany, there, many of you dealers will remember, there was a period of troubles with German customs, where often shipments, also minor ones, were held for several weeks, without the recipient being informed, that the shipment is lying at their customs office. So that some collectors suspected the US-dealers not having sent anything. This situation seems to have improved now, as the recipients are informed nowadays within few days. So all in all I can say that at least the mail traffic between USA and Germany is safe and timely. Best! Martin From fujmon at mac.com Wed Jun 3 10:38:18 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:38:18 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments Message-ID: <3DA326B8-A460-48CE-8550-761DFA7D4906@mac.com> Aloha listees, I want to thank everyone who responded to my email. Many good points were brought to my attention, so I thought I would condense them into a sort of Reader's Digest version here: * Many points of origin and destination offer no insurance for shipped items. Unless you self-insure by some third-party underwriter ... seems like a hassle though. (FWIW, the country of origin of my shipment allowed insurance) * Some dealers or sellers understate the value of their shipments to reduce the tax burden on the buyer for international transactions. But it is always as a dual agreement between the buyer and seller before this is done. * A high value declared on a shipment can slow down the delivery and invite theft. * A very good option for overseas shipments for very valuable specimens are the courier services. A good option for very, very expensive shipments is to deliver in person (anyone for a trip to Hawaii? ;-) * Never declare that you are shipping meteorites or even minerals - it makes it too tempting to steal. A better strategy may be to declare "Geological specimen for research", which is accurate but less attractive to thieves. * Use Paypal or a major credit card for transactions. Most have buyer protection plans that can cover your loss (I don't know if I qualify, but I have inquired). * Purchases made on eBay or paid through Paypal are protected in the same manner (I don't know if I qualify but I have inquired - keep in mind that you can't double-dip from both eBay and Paypal). * Always ship registered mail because the mail has to be signed for each time it changes hands. No insurance is needed because it cannot get lost. (well my package didn't get lost - it made it right to me ... empty). * For those of you who were wondering: No, I wasn't buying illegal meteorites from Argentina - no Campos or Berduc. * Keep all receipts, you need tangible evidence of the cost that you paid (which could be problematic if you, the seller is also the finder of the stones). * On larger orders, the seller should recommend insurance to the buyer, who may elect not to do so at his/her own risk. But give the buyer the choice, make him an active participant in the shipment. * There are inherent risks in doing business on the internet - caveat emptor! The current status of my lost shipment of meteorites from Argentina is that I filed a Dispute with Paypal, which I escalated to a Claim. At this point, Paypal has contacted the seller for information regarding the shipment tracking information, after which it will review the transaction and make a determination. Fingers crossed. Mahalo nui loa (thank you very much) for everyone's responses and offers of sympathy. Sympathy is okay, but my rocks would be better, and since I will probably never see them in my collection, then the money I paid to procure them would be a reasonable outcome that I can accept. I hope this thread, and the information contained therein are of use to both sellers and buyers. The best of luck to everyone in all of your transactions and rock on! gary On Jun 1, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Gary Fujihara wrote: > Aloha, > > I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 > worth of meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from > Argentina. I had noticed the package felt light, but discovered > that the US postal service is not responsible for thefts of the > contents of international mailed items that are not insured. This > shipment was not insured and so I will in all likelihood take the > full brunt of this loss. > > Thievery by customs officials, foreign and domestic postal workers > and other individuals or organized groups inside and outside the US > is a possibility! I believe most packages arrive at their > destinations with their contents intact, but feel it is negligent > and at the very least unconscionable not to insure shipments at or > above the full value of the contents. I know it costs more to do > so, but please consider insurance especially for foreign shipments. > Mailing specimen cards and paperwork separately from the meteorites > can also prevent thieves from knowing what those "Mineral Samples" > are. > > Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? > I personally don't think so, unless I was given a choice and elected > not to insure. I would hope that the seller (an IMCA member who, to > his credit is working with me) would have a sudden rush of > conscience and compensate, or share the loss with me, since his act > of omission provides me with little if any recourse. What are my > rights, and what can I do? Do other dealers insure their > shipments? What is SOP? > > Gary Fujihara > AstroDay Institute > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > http://astroday.net > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From cdtucson at cox.net Wed Jun 3 12:28:21 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 9:28:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: <3DA326B8-A460-48CE-8550-761DFA7D4906@mac.com> Message-ID: <20090603122821.6P21H.210978.imail@fed1rmwml45> Gary, I don't think you get how registered mail works. It is far better than certified mail. First of all registered mail must be secured using paper tape which cannot be removed and the tape is date stamped all along every edge of the tape (this assures that the tape has not been tampered with). Then as added security the mail has to be signed for every time it changes hands. If at any point in the process the package has been opened or tampered with the process ends and the last person to sign for item is held responsible. This assures that there can be no corruption. These carriers guard this mail with their life. So, registered mail is a safe way to go and I trust this so much that I never even buy insurance. No need. I hope this clears it up. Aloha to you too. Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 ---- Gary Fujihara wrote: > Aloha listees, > > I want to thank everyone who responded to my email. Many good points > were brought to my attention, so I thought I would condense them into > a sort of Reader's Digest version here: > > * Many points of origin and destination offer no insurance for shipped > items. Unless you self-insure by some third-party underwriter ... > seems like a hassle though. (FWIW, the country of origin of my > shipment allowed insurance) > > * Some dealers or sellers understate the value of their shipments to > reduce the tax burden on the buyer for international transactions. > But it is always as a dual agreement between the buyer and seller > before this is done. > > * A high value declared on a shipment can slow down the delivery and > invite theft. > > * A very good option for overseas shipments for very valuable > specimens are the courier services. A good option for very, very > expensive shipments is to deliver in person (anyone for a trip to > Hawaii? ;-) > > * Never declare that you are shipping meteorites or even minerals - it > makes it too tempting to steal. A better strategy may be to declare > "Geological specimen for research", which is accurate but less > attractive to thieves. > > * Use Paypal or a major credit card for transactions. Most have buyer > protection plans that can cover your loss (I don't know if I qualify, > but I have inquired). > > * Purchases made on eBay or paid through Paypal are protected in the > same manner (I don't know if I qualify but I have inquired - keep in > mind that you can't double-dip from both eBay and Paypal). > > * Always ship registered mail because the mail has to be signed for > each time it changes hands. No insurance is needed because it cannot > get lost. (well my package didn't get lost - it made it right to > me ... empty). > > * For those of you who were wondering: No, I wasn't buying illegal > meteorites from Argentina - no Campos or Berduc. > > * Keep all receipts, you need tangible evidence of the cost that you > paid (which could be problematic if you, the seller is also the finder > of the stones). > > * On larger orders, the seller should recommend insurance to the > buyer, who may elect not to do so at his/her own risk. But give the > buyer the choice, make him an active participant in the shipment. > > * There are inherent risks in doing business on the internet - caveat > emptor! > > The current status of my lost shipment of meteorites from Argentina is > that I filed a Dispute with Paypal, which I escalated to a Claim. At > this point, Paypal has contacted the seller for information regarding > the shipment tracking information, after which it will review the > transaction and make a determination. Fingers crossed. Mahalo nui > loa (thank you very much) for everyone's responses and offers of > sympathy. Sympathy is okay, but my rocks would be better, and since I > will probably never see them in my collection, then the money I paid > to procure them would be a reasonable outcome that I can accept. > > I hope this thread, and the information contained therein are of use > to both sellers and buyers. The best of luck to everyone in all of > your transactions and rock on! > > gary > > > On Jun 1, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Gary Fujihara wrote: > > > Aloha, > > > > I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 > > worth of meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from > > Argentina. I had noticed the package felt light, but discovered > > that the US postal service is not responsible for thefts of the > > contents of international mailed items that are not insured. This > > shipment was not insured and so I will in all likelihood take the > > full brunt of this loss. > > > > Thievery by customs officials, foreign and domestic postal workers > > and other individuals or organized groups inside and outside the US > > is a possibility! I believe most packages arrive at their > > destinations with their contents intact, but feel it is negligent > > and at the very least unconscionable not to insure shipments at or > > above the full value of the contents. I know it costs more to do > > so, but please consider insurance especially for foreign shipments. > > Mailing specimen cards and paperwork separately from the meteorites > > can also prevent thieves from knowing what those "Mineral Samples" > > are. > > > > Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? > > I personally don't think so, unless I was given a choice and elected > > not to insure. I would hope that the seller (an IMCA member who, to > > his credit is working with me) would have a sudden rush of > > conscience and compensate, or share the loss with me, since his act > > of omission provides me with little if any recourse. What are my > > rights, and what can I do? Do other dealers insure their > > shipments? What is SOP? > > > > Gary Fujihara > > AstroDay Institute > > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > > http://astroday.net > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > Gary Fujihara > AstroDay Institute > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > http://astroday.net > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mexicodoug at aim.com Wed Jun 3 16:01:27 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:01:27 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: <20090603122821.6P21H.210978.imail@fed1rmwml45> Message-ID: <8CBB29D32AF6D29-DC4-14CE@FWM-M31.sysops.aol.com> Carl said: "First of all registered mail must be secured using paper tape which cannot be removed and the tape is date stamped all along every edge of the tape (this assures that the tape has not been tampered with)." Martin said: "(I remember a country, where, before it joined EU, people having to mail there, wrote even on normal letter: "Contains no money!"....)." Gary said: "Never declare that you are shipping meteorites or even minerals - it makes it too tempting to steal. " Dear List: As countries vary in customs (=practices), it is necessary to determine mailing strategy on a case by case basis on what works best - and who better than your foreign correspondent, a kindred soul, who knows his country and enters in good faith into what both hope is a fun transaction. And then to follow through as ethically as possible on both sides - not resorting to loopholes with PayPal, etc., when dealing with friends. Speaking of different worlds, for example, this is a Gold Bug Type 1 here: http://www.diogenite.com/kafer.jpg Carl: This is the States' procedure. Unfortunately, not all countries follow this protocol, whether it is by international convention or not. In Mexico, the user tapes it up with personal tape (whatever kind (s)he has), it does not need to be "hermetically sealed", and the agents at the post office window wonder about you if you ask for any special treatment or try to rock the boat on how they do it. Well, we don't pay the exorbitant over USD 10 to register a package, like American mailings - and it still provides extra security. If your parcel has value to/from here, the rule is, do everything you can so that no one knows it has value. If someone know$ or think$, it is very likely that your package will become theirs. Gary: As for writing "Geological Samples for Study", I am scratching my head on that one, not because I'm a purist, but rather what the implied representation if you ever got into a mess with the specimen. Perhaps "Sample for Geological Studies" :-) Personally I have never had a problem when writing "mineral". But as Zelimir mentioned, results may vary... And to Martin: Not much has changed since 2007 in the big scheme of things and I bet things still get pilfered even there. In our part of the world, we do write "contains no cash" on envelopes often and as a matter of course and without any consternation ... Theft is not a characteristic of only lower rated GDP countries, I will guaranty to you that theft will be around in the year 3009 if people are still around to observe it,though controls hopefully good. As for the fine print on PayPal that has been the menace to many upstanding dealers which no one has dealt with head on: This thread turned into general guidelines. Martin came closest to addressing the original problem with the Argentine mailing problem of the original post when he said: "It should be clear, what the receiver and the sender do want, for finding a compromise between safety, costs and speed." But he forgot to emphasize "...and RESPONSIBILITY". There is nothing wrong with discussing responsibility even though it could be interpreted the wrong way or yikes, be abused once set in stone - i.e., demotivate a transaction from an aspiring collector. But let's face it: The price influences everything. If someone is taking risk, he should get a favorable break on $ in the deal to compensate for that risk. That's how the world seems to work when buying/selling everything else. Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: cdtucson at cox.net To: MeteorList ; Gary Fujihara Sent: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:28 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments Gary, I don't think you get how registered mail works. It is far better than certified mail. First of all registered mail must be secured using paper tape which cannot be removed and the tape is date stamped all along every edge of the tape (this assures that the tape has not been tampered with). Then as added security the mail has to be signed for every time it changes hands. If at any point in the process the package has been opened or tampered with the process ends and the last person to sign for item is held responsible. This assures that there can be no corruption. These carriers guard this mail with their life. So, registered mail is a safe way to go and I trust this so much that I never even buy insurance. No need. I hope this clears it up. Aloha to you too. Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 ---- Gary Fujihara wrote: > Aloha listees, > > I want to thank everyone who responded to my email. Many good points > were brought to my attention, so I thought I would condense them into > a sort of Reader's Digest version here: > > * Many points of origin and destination offer no insurance for shipped > items. Unless you self-insure by some third-party underwriter ... > seems like a hassle though. (FWIW, the country of origin of my > shipment allowed insurance) > > * Some dealers or sellers understate the value of their shipments to > reduce the tax burden on the buyer for international transactions. > But it is always as a dual agreement between the buyer and seller > before this is done. > > * A high value declared on a shipment can slow down the delivery and > invite theft. > > * A very good option for overseas shipments for very valuable > specimens are the courier services. A good option for very, very > expensive shipments is to deliver in person (anyone for a trip to > Hawaii? ;-) > > * Never declare that you are shipping meteorites or even minerals - it > makes it too tempting to steal. A better strategy may be to declare > "Geological specimen for research", which is accurate but less > attractive to thieves. > > * Use Paypal or a major credit card for transactions. Most have buyer > protection plans that can cover your loss (I don't know if I qualify, > but I have inquired). > > * Purchases made on eBay or paid through Paypal are protected in the > same manner (I don't know if I qualify but I have inquired - keep in > mind that you can't double-dip from both eBay and Paypal). > > * Always ship registered mail because the mail has to be signed for > each time it changes hands. No insurance is needed because it cannot > get lost. (well my package didn't get lost - it made it right to > me ... empty). > > * For those of you who were wondering: No, I wasn't buying illegal > meteorites from Argentina - no Campos or Berduc. > > * Keep all receipts, you need tangible evidence of the cost that you > paid (which could be problematic if you, the seller is also the finder > of the stones). > > * On larger orders, the seller should recommend insurance to the > buyer, who may elect not to do so at his/her own risk. But give the > buyer the choice, make him an active participant in the shipment. > > * There are inherent risks in doing business on the internet - caveat > emptor! > > The current status of my lost shipment of meteorites from Argentina is > that I filed a Dispute with Paypal, which I escalated to a Claim. At > this point, Paypal has contacted the seller for information regarding > the shipment tracking information, after which it will review the > transaction and make a determination. Fingers crossed. Mahalo nui > loa (thank you very much) for everyone's responses and offers of > sympathy. Sympathy is okay, but my rocks would be better, and since I > will probably never see them in my collection, then the money I paid > to procure them would be a reasonable outcome that I can accept. > > I hope this thread, and the information contained therein are of use > to both sellers and buyers. The best of luck to everyone in all of > your transactions and rock on! > > gary > > > On Jun 1, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Gary Fujihara wrote: > > > Aloha, > > > > I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 > > worth of meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from > > Argentina. I had noticed the package felt light, but discovered > > that the US postal service is not responsible for thefts of the > > contents of international mailed items that are not insured. This > > shipment was not insured and so I will in all likelihood take the > > full brunt of this loss. > > > > Thievery by customs officials, foreign and domestic postal workers > > and other individuals or organized groups inside and outside the US > > is a possibility! I believe most packages arrive at their > > destinations with their contents intact, but feel it is negligent > > and at the very least unconscionable not to insure shipments at or > > above the full value of the contents. I know it costs more to do > > so, but please consider insurance especially for foreign shipments. > > Mailing specimen cards and paperwork separately from the meteorites > > can also prevent thieves from knowing what those "Mineral Samples" > > are. > > > > Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? > > I personally don't think so, unless I was given a choice and elected > > not to insure. I would hope that the seller (an IMCA member who, to > > his credit is working with me) would have a sudden rush of > > conscience and compensate, or share the loss with me, since his act > > of omission provides me with little if any recourse. What are my > > rights, and what can I do? Do other dealers insure their > > shipments? What is SOP? > > > > Gary Fujihara > > AstroDay Institute > > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > > http://astroday.net > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > Gary Fujihara > AstroDay Institute > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > http://astroday.net > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Jun 3 16:49:48 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:49:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - June 3, 2009 Message-ID: <200906032049.NAA27777@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES June 3, 2009 o Central Peak Gullies http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013071_1365 o Spider Features in the South Polar Region http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013049_0950 o Two Craters South of Sirenum Fossae http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012997_1445 o Central Peak Gullies of Lohse Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012926_1365 o Dome and Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011775_2230 o Candor Mensa Ferric Oxide and Sulfate Section http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011728_1735 o Fresh Impact Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011619_2250 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From epgrondine at yahoo.com Wed Jun 3 17:31:28 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 14:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Is 3He a reliable comet impact marker? Message-ID: <339674.25890.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all - Now that the shock has dissipated, I ask again if anyone knows if 3He is a reliable cometary or comet marker? E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jun 3 19:43:00 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 01:43:00 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Type of Martian Rock - limburgitic NWA 5789 - ......and came back! Message-ID: <00ec01c9e4a5$08096520$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Dear List Members, Dear Greg, indeed, the new Mars landed at us. We acquired the fragments as good candidates for a fresh Martian, not being aware of the enthralling results, which the first analyses of the first sample had yielded meanwhile. And what for results! As you went public, I think it is o.k. to add some more? Under reserve of course, as the first type specimen was to tiny, that the full methodic palette could have been applied. But seems, that NWA 5789 could be a new type of Mars rock. Virtually it contains almost no plagioclase, nor maskelynite, it resembles the primitive Yamato 980458/497, however it is more ultramafic than these. As a terrestrial pendant, it is similar to limburgite. (like it once also was identified by the ?Spirit?-rover, See G.G.Kochemasov: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006cosp...36..796K ) Here were the three stones, before cutting: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-4kl.jpg Note how foamy and bubbly the fusion crust is and how extremely glossy! http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-2kl.jpg Cut surfaces reveal a relatively unweathered material, peppered with small olivines. http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-2.487g.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-1.592g.jpg Well, unfortunately the total weight is with only 49 grams very limited. After the deposit mass was removed, after a few Mars-specialists and institutes from our address-book were supplied and after some donations were done, we have left following specimens: The main piece, a cut stone, weighing 10.682grams http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-10.682g-end1.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-10.682g-end2.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-10.682g-end3.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-10.682g-end4.jpg And an uncut fragment of 5.684g: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-5.684g-fragment1.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-5.684g-fragment2.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-5.684g-fragment3.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-5.684g-fragment4.jpg As the tkw is so small and the material so unique, we would like to avoid to produce more cut loss in slicing the remaining pieces further. And as it most probably represents a new and so far unsampled type of Martian, please understand, that we have to offer these remaining pieces to institutes and researchers first, and that we currently have nothing for sale. Only after the science side will have taken their advantage, then there might be still an opportunity for you to acquire a sample and more could be cut. You can already apply for that option, though we can't promise yet, whether something will be left. Finally we want to express our thanks, to Norbert Classen, who informed us about the amazing results firstly and at all, to Greg Hupe who allowed for the pieces being set together again under the existing, under his number and to Dr. Irving, who studied the first sample and arranged further analyses with the additional material, so that we all can hope for further results about this find, which certainly ranks among the most interesting Martians found in this decade. Though, last and certainly not least, the greatest thanks have to go to our Moroccan colleagues. It is amazing, what and how many important finds they still bring to light under more and more difficult conditions. As I still remember the pre-desert-times it certainly isn't said too much, if one states, that the work of the many nameless searchers and the specialists down there, being able to recognise the most exotic messengers from space, commenced a new epoch in meteoritics. In only one decade, they even achieved to trump the so fruitful Antarctic programs, making the Sahara to the most important source of new meteorites of our days. They profoundly changed the world of meteorite collecting and they changed the world of meteorite science. That we never should forget and for that they have earned our thanks and our respect. Martian Greetings! Stefan & Martin Stefan Ralew & Martin Altmann Chladni's Heirs Munich - Berlin Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors http://www.chladnis-heirs.com -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Hupe Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Juni 2009 01:20 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] New Martian - NWA 5789 - The One That Got Away! Dear List Members, I would like to announce a new Martian meteorite, NWA 5789 (Provisional), the one that got away... mostly! NWA 5789 is currently under study and so far has been described as an Anomalous Shergottite Martian meteorite. This new meteorite has a very low Total Known Weight (TKW) of just 49 grams in three main fragments. I sent a small type sample to the University of Washington who confirmed (NWA 5789) to be a new Martian meteorite with a 99% certainty. Wanting 100% certainty, I sent an additional sample for oxygen isotope analysis, which proved it to be authentic. While waiting for this final analysis, I was negotiating with the Moroccan owner and we were almost at an agreement (or at least I thought). To my dismay, after informing the Moroccan that the material was indeed Martian, he never intended to sell me the material and was shopping it around, leaving me acquiring just 1.8 grams. He only wanted to use me for our quick scientific connections to get material confirmed and/or classified. This is one of the problems when working with Moroccans, you occasionally get the short end of the stick! Not knowing if the additional 47.2 grams would surface or ever be available to collectors, I asked that an NWA number be requested for the 1.8 grams and the next day, "NWA 5789" was assigned to this small amount. Approximately three weeks after this date, it was discovered that the extra 47.2 grams was purchased by a European group (Martin/Stefan). Upon learning of this news, it was agreed by all parties to include the extra 47.2 grams under the designation, "NWA 5789", for a TKW of 49 grams. To say that I was disappointed with the Moroccan for his greedy and underhanded actions would be an understatement, but at least the additional material has been accounted for! NWA 5789 resembles Yamato 980459, as commented on by a well-known planetary collector. Image of 30.5-gram NWA 5789 fragment: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa5789/nwa5789-30_5g.jpg Image of broken face of 1.328-gram fragment: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa5789/nwa5789interior.jpg The lead scientist wrote after examining the first sample of (NWA 5789): "GH-367 (NWA 5789) appears to be a very mafic (or even ultramafic) shergottite consisting of small olivine phenocrysts and small orthopyroxene phenocrysts in a finer grained groundmass composed mainly of prismatic pigeonite grains, chromite, pyrrhotite, and mesostasis regions composed of laminar intergrowths (some sheaf-like) of pigeonite, intermediate plagioclase (possibly NOT maskelynite), silica, ilmenite and merrillite." "This specimen is unlike any other, in that it has very little plagioclase, yet it is texturally different from "lherzolitic" shergottites. I believe that it may be a new type of Martian igneous rock." NOTE: You will notice a slight change in the weights in this email compared to the ones I quoted in my eight eBay auctions of NWA 5789, currently running. I just confirmed the total known weight with the classifying scientist. Best regards, Greg Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Wed Jun 3 19:45:02 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:45:02 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hot Meteorite? Message-ID: <4A270AFE.3010909@meteoritesusa.com> Um.... :o| `Object that fell from sky was a meteorite' KANPUR: "Meteorite is a rocky material which enters into earth's atmosphere from outside the earth (for eg, Mars) whereas numerous small and big rocks circulating in between the planets Mars and Jupiter are known as asteroids," said Prof Harish Chandra Verma of department of Physics of IIT-K while talking to TOI, specifying the difference between a meteorite and an asteroid. Prof Verma ruled out the possibility of the stone being an asteroid as reported in some newspapers and emphatically remarked that the initial study of the piece of the rock done on Wednesday confirms that it's a meteorite. Usually such pieces of rock (debris) come from asteroid belt only but sometimes they may very well be a part of other celestial bodies also. Prof Verma was referring to the incident of May 28, when a 1 kg stone resembling a meteorite fell down from the sky about 12 noon and left the people of the Karimatti hamlet in Hamirpur district amazed and puzzled. The stone which is ten inches in length and five inches in width was put in water to bring down its high temperature. Eyewitness to the entire incident, Mannu Lal, a villager was the first to observe this heavenly body. In no time, the news of the incident had spread like a wild fire in the entire village. The matter was then referred to the administration, which took the stone in its possession. Prof Verma, travelled 200 km and brought the stone to IIT-K on Tuesday last for detailed study. Visibly excited with the discovery of the magnetic stone, Prof Verma shared his experience and said, "It's confirmed now that it is a meteorite due to its properties. As it was getting attracted towards a magnet and also the whole of the stone was covered with a black layer it gave us an idea of it being a meteorite.'' "Genuine scientific tests done on this meteorite will help us to know more about the secrets of the solar system like what was the composition of the solar system when it was formed, what was the early solar system like etc," he further said. Prof Verma went on to say that the researchers from Physical Research Lab, Ahmedabad, University of Jodhpur, Bhaba Atomic Research Centre (BARC) and IIT-K will carry out tests in collaboration. SOURCE: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Kanpur/Object-that-fell-from-sky-was-a-meteorite/articleshow/4614002.cms -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From tektites at googlemail.com Wed Jun 3 21:48:38 2009 From: tektites at googlemail.com (Aubrey Whymark) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 04:48:38 +0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rob Elliott's Auction in the press Message-ID: Hi Old news in the British and Irish Meteorite Society (sorry can't post on that list for some reason). New news in the Daily Mail - Rob Elliott is auctioning off his collection. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1190626/Meteorite.html Regards, Aubrey From almitt at kconline.com Wed Jun 3 21:54:40 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 21:54:40 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: <3DA326B8-A460-48CE-8550-761DFA7D4906@mac.com> References: <3DA326B8-A460-48CE-8550-761DFA7D4906@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi Gary and all, Good thread! Just a note to dealers who are licensed merchants and are in business, we had one dealer on the list who recommended to a buyer he should have insurance on his package. The buyer declined the insurance. The package was lost and when the buyer demanded his money back the dealer said no because he had decline the insurance. The buyer then filed a suit against the dealer and the court's judgment was the dealer is ultimately responsible for the package until it reaches the buyer. The dealer was out the value of the specimen, shipping, and court costs!! This was a USA case so don't know about overseas orders. I know that many dealers were having trouble when shipping to Italy several years back. This is when I decline to ship anything there. The post office would ship global priority just about anywhere else but Italy so it told me there was a problem within that country. Not to put down the highly respected people there on this list. Just the way it is. Buyers have certain rights with credit cards but right now I am fighting with an old card company I dealt with as after three years someone tried to charge something to that old account. They reactivated it (can you believe that) and just because they have my information they are saying I have to pay up. I have a little surprise coming there way if they don't start making sense. Best to all! --AL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Fujihara" To: "MeteorList" Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments >* On larger orders, the seller should recommend insurance to the buyer, >who may elect not to do so at his/her own risk. But give the buyer the >choice, make him an active participant in the shipment. From tektites at googlemail.com Wed Jun 3 22:05:32 2009 From: tektites at googlemail.com (Aubrey Whymark) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 05:05:32 +0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rob Elliott's Meteorite Auction in the press Message-ID: Hi Old news in the British and Irish Meteorite Society (sorry can't post on that list for some reason). New news in the Daily Mail - Rob Elliott is auctioning off his collection. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1190626/Meteorite.html Regards, Aubrey From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Thu Jun 4 03:48:12 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 00:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] devinette , what this rock can be Message-ID: <46027.22864.qm@web62004.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hi all and sabah al kheir, bonjour, some photo to start the day with thinking what this could be, the gambling problem we have in ?morroco, you can gamble on a stone and it could turn to be good and you can gamble and you loose your money, this is my job i do it each? day gambling on rock before labs make analysis , try to?make a devinette of what this could be, i will be back soon soon with the news http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/ all the best aziz the habibiest one ?habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Thu Jun 4 09:10:06 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:10:06 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim: last news, last call In-Reply-To: References: <200905281036.n4SAagj2012026@post.webmailer.de> <200905281239.n4SCdIbC002803@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <200906041309.n54D9qbR006474@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hello List, The latest news about the 2009 edition of the Ensisheim show can be found in two flyers (in English and in French) now included in the two following web sites: www.ville-ensisheim.fr or http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr If you can't find them, ba patient as it could still take a couple of hours for their installment. Should you wish to receive directly the flyer as attachment, just drop me a mail (specify if you wish the English or French version). Also, if you have trouble in clicking these sites, feel free to ask me directly to send you the final flyer. Should you have specific questions or requirements regarding the show organization (tables, dinner...reservations) and/or its scientific parts (consignment room...) contact me by mail (I am also available on phone but on erratic hours) If you need some general info about the show side-enjoyments, be aware that right now Jean-Marie Blosser is out of mail (reason: huge alien-virus invasion!) so contact me and I'll see if I can help or I'll forward your requests in the appropriate direction. For all concerning accommodation, please contact directly your hotel reception desk (they use to speak quite many languages) Two important warnings: 1) As every year, I have reserved places and tables for our former guests who use to attend (almost) every year. Most of them had confirmed their reservations but some of them still remain silent!! Now it is more than time for them to confirm their wish to reserve their usual place. In case they can't do it this year, I'd very much appreciate if they could confirm their withdrawal, this will greatly facilitate my table re-distribution. If I don't hear from them by next Monday June 8, I will reserve me the right to attribute their usual places to new dealers who are on a waiting list. 2) The Friday dinner-party requires reservation. If you wish to attend, just send me one name and the number of persons. Specifying the menu (poultry or game) is optional but could help the cook to be efficient and smooth in serving promptly. ? - As the latest news, we will have on display about 10 very famous meteorites from the meteorite collection of the "National Museums Scotland". To cite a few: - Orgueil (19 g fragments in vial, from the old Saeman collection, Paris) - Strathmore, 1166 g (!). A hammer! - Weston, 391 g (!) - Barwell, 65 g - L'Aigle, 198 g - Cold Bokkeveld, 66 g - Zagami, 72 g - Crumlin, 99 g and...last but not least, - Mauritius (!!), 197 g (!) (who had ever seen a fragment ?) ?- The consignment room promises to be very rich in interesting offers as not less than 15 different persons announced various weird samples they will bring along (sometimes from very far away) for sale. To cite one example, we'll have a 30% crusted (!) 357 g Sulagiri (new official name for "Hosur"), this LL6 that fell in late 2008 in the middle of a village in India. Parhaps also its 721 g 65% crusted "big brother"! Competitive wholesale prices announced for these two! And many, many more. Welcome all to the 3 days "funny big blast" ! (yes, you read the flyer correctly: this year all starts on Friday!) Best wishes to all, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 10:14:34 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 10:14:34 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim: last news, last call In-Reply-To: <200906041309.n54D9qbR006474@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> References: <200905281036.n4SAagj2012026@post.webmailer.de> <200905281239.n4SCdIbC002803@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> <200906041309.n54D9qbR006474@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: Good luck and safe travels to the lucky people who attend the show this year. I look forward to seeing new photos and hearing the stories told afterwards. :) BTW - is Sulagiri/Hosur a "hammer" ?? If so, I want some! LOL :) Best regards, MikeG On 6/4/09, Zelimir Gabelica wrote: > Hello List, > > The latest news about the 2009 edition of the > Ensisheim show can be found in two flyers (in > English and in French) now included in the two following web sites: > > www.ville-ensisheim.fr > or > http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr > > If you can't find them, ba patient as it could > still take a couple of hours for their installment. > > Should you wish to receive directly the flyer as > attachment, just drop me a mail (specify if you > wish the English or French version). > Also, if you have trouble in clicking these > sites, feel free to ask me directly to send you the final flyer. > > Should you have specific questions or > requirements regarding the show organization > (tables, dinner...reservations) and/or its > scientific parts (consignment room...) contact me > by mail (I am also available on phone but on erratic hours) > > If you need some general info about the show > side-enjoyments, be aware that right now > Jean-Marie Blosser is out of mail (reason: huge > alien-virus invasion!) so contact me and I'll see > if I can help or I'll forward your requests in the appropriate direction. > > For all concerning accommodation, please contact > directly your hotel reception desk (they use to speak quite many languages) > > Two important warnings: > > 1) As every year, I have reserved places and > tables for our former guests who use to attend (almost) every year. > Most of them had confirmed their reservations but > some of them still remain silent!! > > Now it is more than time for them to confirm > their wish to reserve their usual place. > In case they can't do it this year, I'd very much > appreciate if they could confirm their > withdrawal, this will greatly facilitate my table re-distribution. > If I don't hear from them by next Monday June 8, > I will reserve me the right to attribute their > usual places to new dealers who are on a waiting list. > > 2) The Friday dinner-party requires reservation. > If you wish to attend, just send me one name and the number of persons. > Specifying the menu (poultry or game) is optional > but could help the cook to be efficient and smooth in serving promptly. > > ? - As the latest news, we will have on display > about 10 very famous meteorites from the > meteorite collection of the "National Museums Scotland". > To cite a few: > - Orgueil (19 g fragments in vial, from the old Saeman collection, Paris) > - Strathmore, 1166 g (!). A hammer! > - Weston, 391 g (!) > - Barwell, 65 g > - L'Aigle, 198 g > - Cold Bokkeveld, 66 g > - Zagami, 72 g > - Crumlin, 99 g > and...last but not least, > - Mauritius (!!), 197 g (!) (who had ever seen a fragment ?) > > ?- The consignment room promises to be very rich > in interesting offers as not less than 15 > different persons announced various weird samples > they will bring along (sometimes from very far away) for sale. > > To cite one example, we'll have a 30% crusted (!) > 357 g Sulagiri (new official name for "Hosur"), > this LL6 that fell in late 2008 in the middle of a village in India. > Parhaps also its 721 g 65% crusted "big brother"! > Competitive wholesale prices announced for these two! > And many, many more. > > Welcome all to the 3 days "funny big blast" ! > (yes, you read the flyer correctly: this year all starts on Friday!) > > Best wishes to all, > > Zelimir > > Prof. Zelimir Gabelica > Universit? de Haute Alsace > ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, > 3, Rue A. Werner, > F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France > Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 > Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Thu Jun 4 10:28:10 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:28:10 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sulagiri/Hosur In-Reply-To: References: <200905281036.n4SAagj2012026@post.webmailer.de> <200905281239.n4SCdIbC002803@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> <200906041309.n54D9qbR006474@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <200906041427.n54ERwZC008460@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi Mike, Well, perhaps not really a hammer as defined by Capt. Blood. Hosur basically fell in the village suburbs damaging streets, trees, ponds...apparently neither houses, not humans. One fragment fell a few meters from a cow assembly.... The best documentation for this fall is described on the site of Svend Buhl: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20fall_1.htm NB: Hosur apparently sells in retail between 25 and 50 $/g. To my best knowledge, the 2 big fragments on consignment in Ensi should turn around 10-12 euro/g. Always welcome here! My best, Zelimir At 16:14 04/06/2009, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: >Good luck and safe travels to the lucky people who attend the show >this year. I look forward to seeing new photos and hearing the >stories told afterwards. :) > >BTW - is Sulagiri/Hosur a "hammer" ?? > >If so, I want some! LOL :) > >Best regards, > >MikeG > > >On 6/4/09, Zelimir Gabelica wrote: > > Hello List, > > > > The latest news about the 2009 edition of the > > Ensisheim show can be found in two flyers (in > > English and in French) now included in the two following web sites: > > > > www.ville-ensisheim.fr > > or > > http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr > > > > If you can't find them, ba patient as it could > > still take a couple of hours for their installment. > > > > Should you wish to receive directly the flyer as > > attachment, just drop me a mail (specify if you > > wish the English or French version). > > Also, if you have trouble in clicking these > > sites, feel free to ask me directly to send you the final flyer. > > > > Should you have specific questions or > > requirements regarding the show organization > > (tables, dinner...reservations) and/or its > > scientific parts (consignment room...) contact me > > by mail (I am also available on phone but on erratic hours) > > > > If you need some general info about the show > > side-enjoyments, be aware that right now > > Jean-Marie Blosser is out of mail (reason: huge > > alien-virus invasion!) so contact me and I'll see > > if I can help or I'll forward your requests in the appropriate direction. > > > > For all concerning accommodation, please contact > > directly your hotel reception desk (they use to speak quite many languages) > > > > Two important warnings: > > > > 1) As every year, I have reserved places and > > tables for our former guests who use to attend (almost) every year. > > Most of them had confirmed their reservations but > > some of them still remain silent!! > > > > Now it is more than time for them to confirm > > their wish to reserve their usual place. > > In case they can't do it this year, I'd very much > > appreciate if they could confirm their > > withdrawal, this will greatly facilitate my table re-distribution. > > If I don't hear from them by next Monday June 8, > > I will reserve me the right to attribute their > > usual places to new dealers who are on a waiting list. > > > > 2) The Friday dinner-party requires reservation. > > If you wish to attend, just send me one name and the number of persons. > > Specifying the menu (poultry or game) is optional > > but could help the cook to be efficient and smooth in serving promptly. > > > > ? - As the latest news, we will have on display > > about 10 very famous meteorites from the > > meteorite collection of the "National Museums Scotland". > > To cite a few: > > - Orgueil (19 g fragments in vial, from the old Saeman collection, Paris) > > - Strathmore, 1166 g (!). A hammer! > > - Weston, 391 g (!) > > - Barwell, 65 g > > - L'Aigle, 198 g > > - Cold Bokkeveld, 66 g > > - Zagami, 72 g > > - Crumlin, 99 g > > and...last but not least, > > - Mauritius (!!), 197 g (!) (who had ever seen a fragment ?) > > > > ?- The consignment room promises to be very rich > > in interesting offers as not less than 15 > > different persons announced various weird samples > > they will bring along (sometimes from very far away) for sale. > > > > To cite one example, we'll have a 30% crusted (!) > > 357 g Sulagiri (new official name for "Hosur"), > > this LL6 that fell in late 2008 in the middle of a village in India. > > Parhaps also its 721 g 65% crusted "big brother"! > > Competitive wholesale prices announced for these two! > > And many, many more. > > > > Welcome all to the 3 days "funny big blast" ! > > (yes, you read the flyer correctly: this year all starts on Friday!) > > > > Best wishes to all, > > > > Zelimir > > > > Prof. Zelimir Gabelica > > Universit? de Haute Alsace > > ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, > > 3, Rue A. Werner, > > F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France > > Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 > > Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > >-- >......................................................... >Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >Member of the Meteoritical Society. >Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >.......................................................... Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From mail at mhmeteorites.com Thu Jun 4 10:36:06 2009 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (mail at mhmeteorites.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:36:06 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sulagiri/Hosur In-Reply-To: <200906041427.n54ERwZC008460@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> References: <200905281036.n4SAagj2012026@post.webmailer.de><200905281239.n4SCdIbC002803@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr><200906041309.n54D9qbR006474@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr><200906041427.n54ERwZC008460@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <196180704-1244126176-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-821892525-@bxe1050.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I know of a few pieces for a great price. Better than 25/g! Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA -----Original Message----- From: Zelimir Gabelica Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:28:10 To: Galactic Stone & Ironworks Cc: meteorite list Subject: [meteorite-list] Sulagiri/Hosur Hi Mike, Well, perhaps not really a hammer as defined by Capt. Blood. Hosur basically fell in the village suburbs damaging streets, trees, ponds...apparently neither houses, not humans. One fragment fell a few meters from a cow assembly.... The best documentation for this fall is described on the site of Svend Buhl: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20fall_1.htm NB: Hosur apparently sells in retail between 25 and 50 $/g. To my best knowledge, the 2 big fragments on consignment in Ensi should turn around 10-12 euro/g. Always welcome here! My best, Zelimir At 16:14 04/06/2009, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: >Good luck and safe travels to the lucky people who attend the show >this year. I look forward to seeing new photos and hearing the >stories told afterwards. :) > >BTW - is Sulagiri/Hosur a "hammer" ?? > >If so, I want some! LOL :) > >Best regards, > >MikeG > > >On 6/4/09, Zelimir Gabelica wrote: > > Hello List, > > > > The latest news about the 2009 edition of the > > Ensisheim show can be found in two flyers (in > > English and in French) now included in the two following web sites: > > > > www.ville-ensisheim.fr > > or > > http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr > > > > If you can't find them, ba patient as it could > > still take a couple of hours for their installment. > > > > Should you wish to receive directly the flyer as > > attachment, just drop me a mail (specify if you > > wish the English or French version). > > Also, if you have trouble in clicking these > > sites, feel free to ask me directly to send you the final flyer. > > > > Should you have specific questions or > > requirements regarding the show organization > > (tables, dinner...reservations) and/or its > > scientific parts (consignment room...) contact me > > by mail (I am also available on phone but on erratic hours) > > > > If you need some general info about the show > > side-enjoyments, be aware that right now > > Jean-Marie Blosser is out of mail (reason: huge > > alien-virus invasion!) so contact me and I'll see > > if I can help or I'll forward your requests in the appropriate direction. > > > > For all concerning accommodation, please contact > > directly your hotel reception desk (they use to speak quite many languages) > > > > Two important warnings: > > > > 1) As every year, I have reserved places and > > tables for our former guests who use to attend (almost) every year. > > Most of them had confirmed their reservations but > > some of them still remain silent!! > > > > Now it is more than time for them to confirm > > their wish to reserve their usual place. > > In case they can't do it this year, I'd very much > > appreciate if they could confirm their > > withdrawal, this will greatly facilitate my table re-distribution. > > If I don't hear from them by next Monday June 8, > > I will reserve me the right to attribute their > > usual places to new dealers who are on a waiting list. > > > > 2) The Friday dinner-party requires reservation. > > If you wish to attend, just send me one name and the number of persons. > > Specifying the menu (poultry or game) is optional > > but could help the cook to be efficient and smooth in serving promptly. > > > > ? - As the latest news, we will have on display > > about 10 very famous meteorites from the > > meteorite collection of the "National Museums Scotland". > > To cite a few: > > - Orgueil (19 g fragments in vial, from the old Saeman collection, Paris) > > - Strathmore, 1166 g (!). A hammer! > > - Weston, 391 g (!) > > - Barwell, 65 g > > - L'Aigle, 198 g > > - Cold Bokkeveld, 66 g > > - Zagami, 72 g > > - Crumlin, 99 g > > and...last but not least, > > - Mauritius (!!), 197 g (!) (who had ever seen a fragment ?) > > > > ?- The consignment room promises to be very rich > > in interesting offers as not less than 15 > > different persons announced various weird samples > > they will bring along (sometimes from very far away) for sale. > > > > To cite one example, we'll have a 30% crusted (!) > > 357 g Sulagiri (new official name for "Hosur"), > > this LL6 that fell in late 2008 in the middle of a village in India. > > Parhaps also its 721 g 65% crusted "big brother"! > > Competitive wholesale prices announced for these two! > > And many, many more. > > > > Welcome all to the 3 days "funny big blast" ! > > (yes, you read the flyer correctly: this year all starts on Friday!) > > > > Best wishes to all, > > > > Zelimir > > > > Prof. Zelimir Gabelica > > Universit? de Haute Alsace > > ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, > > 3, Rue A. Werner, > > F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France > > Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 > > Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 > > > >______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > >-- >......................................................... >Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >Member of the Meteoritical Society. >Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >.......................................................... Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Thu Jun 4 10:57:02 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:57:02 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sulagiri/Hosur In-Reply-To: <196180704-1244126176-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim. net-821892525-@bxe1050.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <200905281036.n4SAagj2012026@post.webmailer.de> <200905281239.n4SCdIbC002803@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> <200906041309.n54D9qbR006474@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> <200906041427.n54ERwZC008460@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> <196180704-1244126176-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-821892525-@bxe1050.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <200906041456.n54Eula8009148@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> 10 euro/g would be about $ 14/g as per today rate. Apparently crusted pieces are rare. Zelimir At 16:36 04/06/2009, mail at mhmeteorites.com wrote: >I know of a few pieces for a great price. Better than 25/g! >Matt >Matt Morgan >Mile High Meteorites >http://www.mhmeteorites.com >P.O. Box 151293 >Lakewood, CO 80215 USA > >-----Original Message----- >From: Zelimir Gabelica > >Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:28:10 >To: Galactic Stone & Ironworks >Cc: meteorite list >Subject: [meteorite-list] Sulagiri/Hosur > > >Hi Mike, > >Well, perhaps not really a hammer as defined by Capt. Blood. >Hosur basically fell in the village suburbs >damaging streets, trees, ponds...apparently >neither houses, not humans. One fragment fell a >few meters from a cow assembly.... > >The best documentation for this fall is described on the site of Svend Buhl: > >http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20fall_1.htm > >NB: Hosur apparently sells in retail between 25 >and 50 $/g. To my best knowledge, the 2 big >fragments on consignment in Ensi should turn around 10-12 euro/g. > >Always welcome here! > >My best, > >Zelimir > >At 16:14 04/06/2009, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > >Good luck and safe travels to the lucky people who attend the show > >this year. I look forward to seeing new photos and hearing the > >stories told afterwards. :) > > > >BTW - is Sulagiri/Hosur a "hammer" ?? > > > >If so, I want some! LOL :) > > > >Best regards, > > > >MikeG > > > > > >On 6/4/09, Zelimir Gabelica wrote: > > > Hello List, > > > > > > The latest news about the 2009 edition of the > > > Ensisheim show can be found in two flyers (in > > > English and in French) now included in the two following web sites: > > > > > > www.ville-ensisheim.fr > > > or > > > http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr > > > > > > If you can't find them, ba patient as it could > > > still take a couple of hours for their installment. > > > > > > Should you wish to receive directly the flyer as > > > attachment, just drop me a mail (specify if you > > > wish the English or French version). > > > Also, if you have trouble in clicking these > > > sites, feel free to ask me directly to send you the final flyer. > > > > > > Should you have specific questions or > > > requirements regarding the show organization > > > (tables, dinner...reservations) and/or its > > > scientific parts (consignment room...) contact me > > > by mail (I am also available on phone but on erratic hours) > > > > > > If you need some general info about the show > > > side-enjoyments, be aware that right now > > > Jean-Marie Blosser is out of mail (reason: huge > > > alien-virus invasion!) so contact me and I'll see > > > if I can help or I'll forward your requests in the appropriate direction. > > > > > > For all concerning accommodation, please contact > > > directly your hotel reception desk (they > use to speak quite many languages) > > > > > > Two important warnings: > > > > > > 1) As every year, I have reserved places and > > > tables for our former guests who use to attend (almost) every year. > > > Most of them had confirmed their reservations but > > > some of them still remain silent!! > > > > > > Now it is more than time for them to confirm > > > their wish to reserve their usual place. > > > In case they can't do it this year, I'd very much > > > appreciate if they could confirm their > > > withdrawal, this will greatly facilitate my table re-distribution. > > > If I don't hear from them by next Monday June 8, > > > I will reserve me the right to attribute their > > > usual places to new dealers who are on a waiting list. > > > > > > 2) The Friday dinner-party requires reservation. > > > If you wish to attend, just send me one name and the number of persons. > > > Specifying the menu (poultry or game) is optional > > > but could help the cook to be efficient and smooth in serving promptly. > > > > > > ? - As the latest news, we will have on display > > > about 10 very famous meteorites from the > > > meteorite collection of the "National Museums Scotland". > > > To cite a few: > > > - Orgueil (19 g fragments in vial, from the old Saeman collection, Paris) > > > - Strathmore, 1166 g (!). A hammer! > > > - Weston, 391 g (!) > > > - Barwell, 65 g > > > - L'Aigle, 198 g > > > - Cold Bokkeveld, 66 g > > > - Zagami, 72 g > > > - Crumlin, 99 g > > > and...last but not least, > > > - Mauritius (!!), 197 g (!) (who had ever seen a fragment ?) > > > > > > ?- The consignment room promises to be very rich > > > in interesting offers as not less than 15 > > > different persons announced various weird samples > > > they will bring along (sometimes from very far away) for sale. > > > > > > To cite one example, we'll have a 30% crusted (!) > > > 357 g Sulagiri (new official name for "Hosur"), > > > this LL6 that fell in late 2008 in the middle of a village in India. > > > Parhaps also its 721 g 65% crusted "big brother"! > > > Competitive wholesale prices announced for these two! > > > And many, many more. > > > > > > Welcome all to the 3 days "funny big blast" ! > > > (yes, you read the flyer correctly: this year all starts on Friday!) > > > > > > Best wishes to all, > > > > > > Zelimir > > > > > > Prof. Zelimir Gabelica > > > Universit? de Haute Alsace > > > ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, > > > 3, Rue A. Werner, > > > F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France > > > Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 > > > Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 > > > > > >______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > >-- > >......................................................... > >Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > >Member of the Meteoritical Society. > >Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > >Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > >.......................................................... > >Prof. Zelimir Gabelica >Universit? de Haute Alsace >ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, >3, Rue A. Werner, >F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France >Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 >Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From eric at meteoritesusa.com Thu Jun 4 13:38:48 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:38:48 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite In Situ On Mars Message-ID: <4A2806A8.1070109@meteoritesusa.com> Hi List, Here's a cool article on NewScientist.com showing a photo taken by Opportunity Rover of a possible meteorite about 800 meters south of Victoria Crater. http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn17254/dn17254-1_300.jpg ARTICLE: Fist-sized stones scattered around Victoria Crater on Mars appear to be meteorites ? and might be fragments of the object that punched out the crater, researchers say. Because the rocks contain iron, which rusts in the presence of water, they could provide a sensitive gauge of how much weathering has affected the region in recent times. The rovers Spirit and Opportunity have previously found three iron meteorites, whose shiny, metallic appearance makes them stand out against the dusty Martian surface. Now, Opportunity has turned up six other candidates on a Martian plain called Meridiani Planum, all of which appear to be related to each other. Instruments on the rover, including its M?ssbauer spectrometer, show the rocks are stony, but also contain iron-bearing minerals present in meteorites found on Earth, such as kamacite and troilite. "I've been very excited ? about the prospects of finding meteorites at the Opportunity landing site because it is the perfect setting for it ? an ancient surface with very few Mars rocks," says James Ashley of Arizona State University in Tempe. "In this sense, it is similar to Antarctic meteorite fields where few Earth rocks are to be found." http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17254-rusty-space-rocks-could-flag-up-mars-water.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- In an old article linked from this one is another describing two iron meteorites found by Spirit rover in April of 2006. IRON METEORITES: Two iron meteorites have been spotted by the Mars rover Spirit, mission scientists have announced. The finds are the first meteorites identified by Spirit, although its twin, Opportunity, discovered a similar space rock on the other side of the planet in January 2005. Spirit photographed the rocks in April 2006, just after it parked at Low Ridge Haven, a northern-tilting slope that is serving as its home for the six-month-long Martian winter. The rocks appear smoother and lighter in tone than surrounding rocks. They resemble the glossy, pitted meteorite - dubbed "Heat Shield Rock" - that Opportunity found near its discarded heat shield. Observations of that rock with Opportunity's miniature thermal emission spectrometer (Mini-TES) showed it was very reflective - a telltale sign of an iron meteorite (see Metal chunk on Mars confirmed as meteorite). Now, observations by the Mini-TES on Spirit reveal the two suspect rocks are similarly reflective. "They're very good reflectors," says mission member Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St Louis, US. "We're seeing the heat of the sky being reflected to Mini-TES. I don't know how that can happen unless it's a metal." http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9324-mars-rover-spirit-finds-metallic-meteorites.html -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From meteoriteshow at free.fr Thu Jun 4 13:55:48 2009 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 17:55:48 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday Message-ID: <000d01c9e53d$b1aab410$0300a8c0@T42> Dear Listees, Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow They include: 1- DaG 573 L4 - 20.6g full slice: dimensions 59x58x3mm Losts of sharply defined chondrules in a grey matrix & metal flakes, fusion crust all around. THIS IS THE LAST PIECE OF DaG 573 AVAILABLE... STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330333109393 2- NWA 859 (Taza) IRON UNGR. - 30.3g oriented: dimensions ~36x16x11mm. Beautiful shape with rollover lips. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330333109434 3- SAH 02500 L3 - 229.8g CRUSTED ENDCUT: dimensions: 52x50x48mm. The polished cut section shows the typical structure of SAH 02500, with clasts, inclusions, big metal flakes & nice chondrules. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330333109488 4- SAH 02500 L3 - 93.8g - 9 pces: weighing respectively 13.31g + 12.95 + 12.21 + 11.84 + 11.24 + 10.81 + 7.9 + 7.68 + 6.0g 7 of them are partially FUSION CRUSTED. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330333109521 Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!! Kind regards, Frederic Beroud http://www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/) From lintonius at earthlink.net Thu Jun 4 14:44:03 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:44:03 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite In Situ On Mars References: <4A2806A8.1070109@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <1F84E9B9B6004810BAA5D2B06D083C9A@D190TH71> Hey, that's pretty cool, Eric. Thanks for sharing. You can leave the metal detector home. All you need is the space suit and a couple other little things. ;^) Linton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" To: Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:38 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite In Situ On Mars Hi List, Here's a cool article on NewScientist.com showing a photo taken by Opportunity Rover of a possible meteorite about 800 meters south of Victoria Crater. http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn17254/dn17254-1_300.jpg ARTICLE: Fist-sized stones scattered around Victoria Crater on Mars appear to be meteorites ? and might be fragments of the object that punched out the crater, researchers say. Because the rocks contain iron, which rusts in the presence of water, they could provide a sensitive gauge of how much weathering has affected the region in recent times. The rovers Spirit and Opportunity have previously found three iron meteorites, whose shiny, metallic appearance makes them stand out against the dusty Martian surface. Now, Opportunity has turned up six other candidates on a Martian plain called Meridiani Planum, all of which appear to be related to each other. Instruments on the rover, including its M?ssbauer spectrometer, show the rocks are stony, but also contain iron-bearing minerals present in meteorites found on Earth, such as kamacite and troilite. "I've been very excited ? about the prospects of finding meteorites at the Opportunity landing site because it is the perfect setting for it ? an ancient surface with very few Mars rocks," says James Ashley of Arizona State University in Tempe. "In this sense, it is similar to Antarctic meteorite fields where few Earth rocks are to be found." http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17254-rusty-space-rocks-could-flag-up-mars-water.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- In an old article linked from this one is another describing two iron meteorites found by Spirit rover in April of 2006. IRON METEORITES: Two iron meteorites have been spotted by the Mars rover Spirit, mission scientists have announced. The finds are the first meteorites identified by Spirit, although its twin, Opportunity, discovered a similar space rock on the other side of the planet in January 2005. Spirit photographed the rocks in April 2006, just after it parked at Low Ridge Haven, a northern-tilting slope that is serving as its home for the six-month-long Martian winter. The rocks appear smoother and lighter in tone than surrounding rocks. They resemble the glossy, pitted meteorite - dubbed "Heat Shield Rock" - that Opportunity found near its discarded heat shield. Observations of that rock with Opportunity's miniature thermal emission spectrometer (Mini-TES) showed it was very reflective - a telltale sign of an iron meteorite (see Metal chunk on Mars confirmed as meteorite). Now, observations by the Mini-TES on Spirit reveal the two suspect rocks are similarly reflective. "They're very good reflectors," says mission member Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St Louis, US. "We're seeing the heat of the sky being reflected to Mini-TES. I don't know how that can happen unless it's a metal." http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9324-mars-rover-spirit-finds-metallic-meteorites.html -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteorites at online.nl Thu Jun 4 19:32:09 2009 From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 01:32:09 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD]Lost City 3,8 gr. slice Message-ID: <3E32054524EE48DC92DF7A2963193004@laptop> Listoids, Listed on Ebay, a 3,8 grams slice of Lost City. Look here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Lost-City-Meteorite-slice-3-8-grams_W0QQitemZ170340606298QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Sorry, no trades. Regards, Jan Holland From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Thu Jun 4 20:44:57 2009 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 00:44:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] Article: Did a meteor bring down Air France 447? In-Reply-To: <2012462807.787961244162582313.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <267871959.788881244162697027.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Get ready for some whacky statistics: (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/04/did-a-meteor-bring-down-air-france-447/ ) "That?s a one-in-twenty chance of some plane going down for this reason in that 20 year period." From marcin at meteoryt.net Thu Jun 4 21:06:31 2009 From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 03:06:31 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sulagiri/Hosur References: <200905281036.n4SAagj2012026@post.webmailer.de><200905281239.n4SCdIbC002803@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr><200906041309.n54D9qbR006474@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr><200906041427.n54ERwZC008460@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr><196180704-1244126176-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-821892525-@bxe1050.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <200906041456.n54Eula8009148@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <032e01c9e579$e1516060$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> > 10 euro/g would be about $ 14/g as per today rate. Apparently crusted > pieces are rare. > > Zelimir > I have many offers on this one and also hear about some from different persons and this sometimes was offered for 5$ sometimes for 35$/g, but becouse of not clear situation with export permission I have never decided to get this material. PS. Our last mega bolide from 31.may was empty. Too high speed, too high altitude, week material and big bara bum turned it into dust. ehhh damn its sad. -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 4 23:35:19 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 23:35:19 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite In Situ On Mars In-Reply-To: <1F84E9B9B6004810BAA5D2B06D083C9A@D190TH71> References: <4A2806A8.1070109@meteoritesusa.com> <1F84E9B9B6004810BAA5D2B06D083C9A@D190TH71> Message-ID: Hi, Eric and List, Any speculation for Libyan glass-type objects, moldavites, or tektites being found on Mars any time soon? The conditions would be ideal for their creation, eh? (minus the atmosphere influence on the tektites, of course!) Cheers, Pete ---------------------------------------- > From: lintonius at earthlink.net > To: eric at meteoritesusa.com > Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:44:03 -0700 > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite In Situ On Mars > > Hey, that's pretty cool, Eric. Thanks for sharing. > You can leave the metal detector home. All you need > is the space suit and a couple other little things. ;^) > Linton > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Meteorites USA" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:38 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite In Situ On Mars > > > Hi List, > > Here's a cool article on NewScientist.com showing a photo taken by > Opportunity Rover of a possible meteorite about 800 meters south of > Victoria Crater. > > http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn17254/dn17254-1_300.jpg > > ARTICLE: Fist-sized stones scattered around Victoria Crater on Mars > appear to be meteorites ? and might be fragments of the object that > punched out the crater, researchers say. Because the rocks contain iron, > which rusts in the presence of water, they could provide a sensitive > gauge of how much weathering has affected the region in recent times. > > The rovers Spirit and Opportunity have previously found three iron > meteorites, whose shiny, metallic appearance makes them stand out > against the dusty Martian surface. > > Now, Opportunity has turned up six other candidates on a Martian plain > called Meridiani Planum, all of which appear to be related to each > other. Instruments on the rover, including its M?ssbauer spectrometer, > show the rocks are stony, but also contain iron-bearing minerals present > in meteorites found on Earth, such as kamacite and troilite. > > "I've been very excited ? about the prospects of finding meteorites at > the Opportunity landing site because it is the perfect setting for it ? > an ancient surface with very few Mars rocks," says James Ashley of > Arizona State University in Tempe. "In this sense, it is similar to > Antarctic meteorite fields where few Earth rocks are to be found." > > http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17254-rusty-space-rocks-could-flag-up-mars-water.html > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > In an old article linked from this one is another describing two iron > meteorites found by Spirit rover in April of 2006. > > IRON METEORITES: Two iron meteorites have been spotted by the Mars rover > Spirit, mission scientists have announced. The finds are the first > meteorites identified by Spirit, although its twin, Opportunity, > discovered a similar space rock on the other side of the planet in > January 2005. > > Spirit photographed the rocks in April 2006, just after it parked at Low > Ridge Haven, a northern-tilting slope that is serving as its home for > the six-month-long Martian winter. > > The rocks appear smoother and lighter in tone than surrounding rocks. > They resemble the glossy, pitted meteorite - dubbed "Heat Shield Rock" - > that Opportunity found near its discarded heat shield. > > Observations of that rock with Opportunity's miniature thermal emission > spectrometer (Mini-TES) showed it was very reflective - a telltale sign > of an iron meteorite (see Metal chunk on Mars confirmed as meteorite). > Now, observations by the Mini-TES on Spirit reveal the two suspect rocks > are similarly reflective. > > "They're very good reflectors," says mission member Ray Arvidson of > Washington University in St Louis, US. "We're seeing the heat of the sky > being reflected to Mini-TES. I don't know how that can happen unless > it's a metal." > > http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9324-mars-rover-spirit-finds-metallic-meteorites.html > > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666046 From pshugar at clearwire.net Fri Jun 5 00:02:23 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar@clearwire.net) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 23:02:23 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? Message-ID: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop> We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. These we know where they come from. Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, or maybe Earthite? Just contemplating my navel here. Pete From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jun 5 00:04:10 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:04:10 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Meteorite Hunters Born Message-ID: <4A28993A.3000301@meteoritesusa.com> I was reading through some interesting articles today and ran across this little blurb. Though some terms are incorrect the gist is there. There are new meteorite hunters being born. http://community.fox4kc.com/_METEORITE-MEN/BLOG/334832/96364.html -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jun 5 01:17:49 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:17:49 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space Message-ID: <4A28AA7D.60905@meteoritesusa.com> Hi list, I know I've posted a lot today, but bear with me. I've been doing some research since I found the article on the meteorite that Mars rover Opportunity found on Mars earlier and it got me to thinking about how it got there and where it was from. This led to more research and more questions... We know meteorites come from other celestial bodies, whether they be from asteroids, comets, or planets. All types of meteorites have been found on Earth but... What about the reverse? We know it happens because we have lunar and martian meteorites here on Earth. Over the last few months I've been reading about panspermia and artificial planet seeding too which are very interesting topics. You can imagine the force a huge asteroid would exert on the crust of our planet during an impact event and would eject quite a bit of material into space. This all brings up some very interesting questions... If Panspermia is a theory, then wouldn't reverse panspermia (life originating from Earth) suggest it's very plausible and not just possible to seed life on other planets from another by impact, travel and time? Having said that let me illustrate a scenario. A huge asteroid impacted Earth millions of years ago throwing millions of tons of debris into our atmosphere. Some of this debris will escape Earth's gravity and make it into space. How much is arguable. Wouldn't it be possible for some microbe or bacteria to be preserved deep inside a clump of Earth, and flash frozen in the iciness of space? How many billions of bacteria, and microbes, or even insects have been launched into space over the hundreds or even thousands of large impacts the Earth has been subject to since the beginning of time? Look at the jungles of South America and Africa and other tropical regions. The density of life in any given square foot is higher than on any other place on the planet. If a large Asteroid impacted this region you can imagine the sheer numbers of "life forms" that escaped Earth. Survivability is the issue. If the microbe or "life form" is deep enough within the stone, rock, or clump of earth, wouldn't it be preserved. wouldn't this Earth rock act as a capsule to transport life outside our own solar system? Current science tells us that the temperature of the interior of a meteoroid entering our atmosphere is relatively low. In fact it is usually ambient to space. In other words cold! Frozen even. This is sufficient to allow a microbial life form to survive isn't it? Look up Water Bear on Google... http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2905&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/081016-am-tardigrade-toughness.html Wouldn't this mean that there could be space rocks out there with "life" within them right now? Life that came from Earth? And if there's life out there that comes from Earth, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to guess that there might be other material out there that might just have come from another habitable solar system. I know these are big jumps and guesses, but isn't it possible considering the sheer length of time, the age of our planet, and the number of impact events over this time period on other celestial bodies and planets? I mean we are talking about billions of years here... Your thoughts? -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From gmhupe at htn.net Fri Jun 5 01:28:16 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 01:28:16 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space References: <4A28AA7D.60905@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <805C6E939C2941A9913BD80BC9296508@Gregor> Yep! Here's proof: http://foreverloyal.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/marvin_the_martian.jpg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" To: Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:17 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space > Hi list, > > I know I've posted a lot today, but bear with me. I've been doing some > research since I found the article on the meteorite that Mars rover > Opportunity found on Mars earlier and it got me to thinking about how it > got there and where it was from. This led to more research and more > questions... > > We know meteorites come from other celestial bodies, whether they be from > asteroids, comets, or planets. All types of meteorites have been found on > Earth but... What about the reverse? > > We know it happens because we have lunar and martian meteorites here on > Earth. Over the last few months I've been reading about panspermia and > artificial planet seeding too which are very interesting topics. > > You can imagine the force a huge asteroid would exert on the crust of our > planet during an impact event and would eject quite a bit of material into > space. > > This all brings up some very interesting questions... If Panspermia is a > theory, then wouldn't reverse panspermia (life originating from Earth) > suggest it's very plausible and not just possible to seed life on other > planets from another by impact, travel and time? > > Having said that let me illustrate a scenario. A huge asteroid impacted > Earth millions of years ago throwing millions of tons of debris into our > atmosphere. Some of this debris will escape Earth's gravity and make it > into space. How much is arguable. Wouldn't it be possible for some microbe > or bacteria to be preserved deep inside a clump of Earth, and flash frozen > in the iciness of space? > > How many billions of bacteria, and microbes, or even insects have been > launched into space over the hundreds or even thousands of large impacts > the Earth has been subject to since the beginning of time? Look at the > jungles of South America and Africa and other tropical regions. The > density of life in any given square foot is higher than on any other place > on the planet. If a large Asteroid impacted this region you can imagine > the sheer numbers of "life forms" that escaped Earth. > > Survivability is the issue. If the microbe or "life form" is deep enough > within the stone, rock, or clump of earth, wouldn't it be preserved. > wouldn't this Earth rock act as a capsule to transport life outside our > own solar system? Current science tells us that the temperature of the > interior of a meteoroid entering our atmosphere is relatively low. In fact > it is usually ambient to space. In other words cold! Frozen even. This is > sufficient to allow a microbial life form to survive isn't it? Look up > Water Bear on Google... > > http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2905&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 > > http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/081016-am-tardigrade-toughness.html > > Wouldn't this mean that there could be space rocks out there with "life" > within them right now? Life that came from Earth? And if there's life out > there that comes from Earth, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to guess > that there might be other material out there that might just have come > from another habitable solar system. I know these are big jumps and > guesses, but isn't it possible considering the sheer length of time, the > age of our planet, and the number of impact events over this time period > on other celestial bodies and planets? > > I mean we are talking about billions of years here... > > Your thoughts? > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jun 5 01:48:33 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:48:33 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space In-Reply-To: <805C6E939C2941A9913BD80BC9296508@Gregor> References: <4A28AA7D.60905@meteoritesusa.com> <805C6E939C2941A9913BD80BC9296508@Gregor> Message-ID: <4A28B1B1.10804@meteoritesusa.com> Nice! ;) LOL Greg Hupe wrote: > Yep! > Here's proof: > http://foreverloyal.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/marvin_the_martian.jpg > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" > > To: > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:17 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space > > >> Hi list, >> >> I know I've posted a lot today, but bear with me. I've been doing >> some research since I found the article on the meteorite that Mars >> rover Opportunity found on Mars earlier and it got me to thinking >> about how it got there and where it was from. This led to more >> research and more questions... >> >> We know meteorites come from other celestial bodies, whether they be >> from asteroids, comets, or planets. All types of meteorites have been >> found on Earth but... What about the reverse? >> >> We know it happens because we have lunar and martian meteorites here >> on Earth. Over the last few months I've been reading about panspermia >> and artificial planet seeding too which are very interesting topics. >> >> You can imagine the force a huge asteroid would exert on the crust of >> our planet during an impact event and would eject quite a bit of >> material into space. >> >> This all brings up some very interesting questions... If Panspermia >> is a theory, then wouldn't reverse panspermia (life originating from >> Earth) suggest it's very plausible and not just possible to seed life >> on other planets from another by impact, travel and time? >> >> Having said that let me illustrate a scenario. A huge asteroid >> impacted Earth millions of years ago throwing millions of tons of >> debris into our atmosphere. Some of this debris will escape Earth's >> gravity and make it into space. How much is arguable. Wouldn't it be >> possible for some microbe or bacteria to be preserved deep inside a >> clump of Earth, and flash frozen in the iciness of space? >> >> How many billions of bacteria, and microbes, or even insects have >> been launched into space over the hundreds or even thousands of large >> impacts the Earth has been subject to since the beginning of time? >> Look at the jungles of South America and Africa and other tropical >> regions. The density of life in any given square foot is higher than >> on any other place on the planet. If a large Asteroid impacted this >> region you can imagine the sheer numbers of "life forms" that escaped >> Earth. >> >> Survivability is the issue. If the microbe or "life form" is deep >> enough within the stone, rock, or clump of earth, wouldn't it be >> preserved. wouldn't this Earth rock act as a capsule to transport >> life outside our own solar system? Current science tells us that the >> temperature of the interior of a meteoroid entering our atmosphere is >> relatively low. In fact it is usually ambient to space. In other >> words cold! Frozen even. This is sufficient to allow a microbial life >> form to survive isn't it? Look up Water Bear on Google... >> >> http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2905&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 >> >> >> http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/081016-am-tardigrade-toughness.html >> >> >> Wouldn't this mean that there could be space rocks out there with >> "life" within them right now? Life that came from Earth? And if >> there's life out there that comes from Earth, it wouldn't take a >> rocket scientist to guess that there might be other material out >> there that might just have come from another habitable solar system. >> I know these are big jumps and guesses, but isn't it possible >> considering the sheer length of time, the age of our planet, and the >> number of impact events over this time period on other celestial >> bodies and planets? >> >> I mean we are talking about billions of years here... >> >> Your thoughts? >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Eric Wichman >> Meteorites USA >> http://www.meteoritesusa.com >> 904-236-5394 >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> From mexicodoug at aim.com Fri Jun 5 01:52:30 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 01:52:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? -an answer!!! In-Reply-To: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop> Message-ID: <8CBB3B8F2C6C707-165C-C11@FWM-M13.sysops.aol.com> Pete wrote: "can a meteorite?hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon?or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid,?or maybe Earthite?" Hi Pete, Generally the splashed and splattered material from a meteoroid impact on earth are called "Tektites", or if it was from the biggest impact they are called the "Moon". Tektites are thought to be formed from the largest collisions and are so far from escaping the gravitational domination of the earth, that, if Earth were a grapefruit size, most of the tektites the list is familiar with have the escape velocity of an acrobatic ant jumping at most a few millimeters high. Technically, the Moon is the only known Earthoid. Most of us are skeptical about a reverse path plausibility to not only survive the initially viscous path out of the atmosphere, but then also beyond the reach of Earth's primary gravitational dominance. once you look at the seemingly impossible physics (few things in nature are outright impossible, but even Clinton would have a harder time arguing most of them than against, say, good DNA testing results). The Moon is a good clue to the answer to your question. It has 27% of the Earth's diameter (though under 2% of the mass). That was a big impact, supposedly from a Mars sized planetoid! Yet, all the material is assumed to have stayed on Earth or within its grasp (forming the Moon). Wh at I'm getting at is the answer to your question is no one knows, and it is well covered in the archives since this question comes up at least once a year. That is why tried to give a different slant on the answer this time so the old timers aren't bored out of their mind. Let me leave you with this fine research question: So, how much material, if any, could have been ejected from the collision that created the Earth-Moon system as a result? That would be an olympic jumping spider! Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Pete Shugar at clearwire.net To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:02 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the? Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite.? These we know where they come from.? ? Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite? hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon? or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid,? or maybe Earthite?? Just contemplating my navel here.? Pete? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? From meteoritekid at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 02:11:31 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 23:11:31 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? -an answer!!! In-Reply-To: <8CBB3B8F2C6C707-165C-C11@FWM-M13.sysops.aol.com> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop> <8CBB3B8F2C6C707-165C-C11@FWM-M13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890906042311h66ec048cne4e3422542b3e9cb@mail.gmail.com> Of course, if anyone here is familiar with Tintin (in particular, "Tintin and The Shooting Star"), one knows that the elements in at least some meteorites can create such beasts... http://farm1.static.flickr.com/3/4224425_e9c3ce4f4e.jpg On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Mexicodoug wrote: > Pete wrote: > > "can a meteorite?hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the > moon?or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid,?or maybe > Earthite?" > > Hi Pete, > > Generally the splashed and splattered material from a meteoroid impact on > earth are called "Tektites", or if it was from the biggest impact they are > called the "Moon". Tektites are thought to be formed from the largest > collisions and are so far from escaping the gravitational domination of the > earth, that, if Earth were a grapefruit size, most of the tektites the list > is familiar with have the escape velocity of an acrobatic ant jumping at > most a few millimeters high. > > Technically, the Moon is the only known Earthoid. > > Most of us are skeptical about a reverse path plausibility to not only > survive the initially viscous path out of the atmosphere, but then also > beyond the reach of Earth's primary gravitational dominance. once you look > at the seemingly impossible physics (few things in nature are outright > impossible, but even Clinton would have a harder time arguing most of them > than against, say, good DNA testing results). > > The Moon is a good clue to the answer to your question. It has 27% of the > Earth's diameter (though under 2% of the mass). That was a big impact, > supposedly from a Mars sized planetoid! Yet, all the material is assumed to > have stayed on Earth or within its grasp (forming the Moon). > > Wh > at I'm getting at is the answer to your question is no one knows, and it is > well covered in the archives since this question comes up at least once a > year. That is why tried to give a different slant on the answer this time so > the old timers aren't bored out of their mind. > > Let me leave you with this fine research question: > So, how much material, if any, could have been ejected from the collision > that created the Earth-Moon system as a result? That would be an olympic > jumping spider! > > Best wishes, > Doug > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pete Shugar at clearwire.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:02 pm > Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > > We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. > These we know where they come from. > > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, > or maybe Earthite? > Just contemplating my navel here. > Pete > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Fri Jun 5 04:27:59 2009 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:27:59 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space In-Reply-To: <4A28AA7D.60905@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A28AA7D.60905@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4960704F@gamma.ssl.atw> Many studies have been done which suggest some microbes or Archaea could potentially survive a short trip to mars inside a rock (under perfect ideal conditions that is), even Lichen has been shown to survive in space. But the physics of a suitable impact would suggest that at best we would be talking a very limited number of very tough 'archaea' type microbes only, if at all, you are certainly not going to get any plants and animals sent to mars. So, it could only be certain select microbes which stood even a remote a chance, it's likely most would just perish after a few million years in space and never taking hold when they landed, they would after all be trapped deep inside a rock. And we don't even know if rocks actually have made it from Earth to Mars anyway, very few have I suspect, in theory they may, but in theory there should also be Venus rocks on Earth, but then we haven't found any yet?. I would guess that statistically not enough material transfer has gone on, to reliably seed mars from Earth, although in recent years I bet the Mars Landers have brought their fair share of Earth based microbe contamination, (there are rover parts that are impossible to sterilize), especially bearing in mind there are countless strange archaea that have yet to be recognized by science let alone understood. To be honest this whole Panspermia concept, has become a bit of a religion in some circles, how is it more likely that Earth was seeded by alien life than that that the Earth started life by itself? Earth is perfect for life, all the ingredients are or where present, we haven't seen anywhere else in the universe like earth for long enough, so it seems sensible to assume it all started right here... in a galaxy not so very far away.. Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites USA Sent: 05 June 2009 06:18 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space Hi list, I know I've posted a lot today, but bear with me. I've been doing some research since I found the article on the meteorite that Mars rover Opportunity found on Mars earlier and it got me to thinking about how it got there and where it was from. This led to more research and more questions... We know meteorites come from other celestial bodies, whether they be from asteroids, comets, or planets. All types of meteorites have been found on Earth but... What about the reverse? We know it happens because we have lunar and martian meteorites here on Earth. Over the last few months I've been reading about panspermia and artificial planet seeding too which are very interesting topics. You can imagine the force a huge asteroid would exert on the crust of our planet during an impact event and would eject quite a bit of material into space. This all brings up some very interesting questions... If Panspermia is a theory, then wouldn't reverse panspermia (life originating from Earth) suggest it's very plausible and not just possible to seed life on other planets from another by impact, travel and time? Having said that let me illustrate a scenario. A huge asteroid impacted Earth millions of years ago throwing millions of tons of debris into our atmosphere. Some of this debris will escape Earth's gravity and make it into space. How much is arguable. Wouldn't it be possible for some microbe or bacteria to be preserved deep inside a clump of Earth, and flash frozen in the iciness of space? How many billions of bacteria, and microbes, or even insects have been launched into space over the hundreds or even thousands of large impacts the Earth has been subject to since the beginning of time? Look at the jungles of South America and Africa and other tropical regions. The density of life in any given square foot is higher than on any other place on the planet. If a large Asteroid impacted this region you can imagine the sheer numbers of "life forms" that escaped Earth. Survivability is the issue. If the microbe or "life form" is deep enough within the stone, rock, or clump of earth, wouldn't it be preserved. wouldn't this Earth rock act as a capsule to transport life outside our own solar system? Current science tells us that the temperature of the interior of a meteoroid entering our atmosphere is relatively low. In fact it is usually ambient to space. In other words cold! Frozen even. This is sufficient to allow a microbial life form to survive isn't it? Look up Water Bear on Google... http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=artic le&sid=2905&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/081016-am-tardigrade-toughness.htm l Wouldn't this mean that there could be space rocks out there with "life" within them right now? Life that came from Earth? And if there's life out there that comes from Earth, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to guess that there might be other material out there that might just have come from another habitable solar system. I know these are big jumps and guesses, but isn't it possible considering the sheer length of time, the age of our planet, and the number of impact events over this time period on other celestial bodies and planets? I mean we are talking about billions of years here... Your thoughts? -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From jgrossman at usgs.gov Fri Jun 5 06:12:46 2009 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 06:12:46 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop> Message-ID: <4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov> I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite. jeff Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote: > We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. > These we know where they come from. > > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, > or maybe Earthite? > Just contemplating my navel here. > Pete > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr Fri Jun 5 12:10:54 2009 From: thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr (Philippe Thomas) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:10:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - NWA 5731 thin sections images for chondrules fans Message-ID: <9785882.95536.1244218254140.JavaMail.www@wwinf1601> Dear List, I cannot resist to the temptation to show, to the fans of chondrules, the images of the thin sections (NWA 5731, LL3) which I have just obtained. Just for the pleasure of eyes, these thin sections shall be for sale to Ensisheim. These images from Damien Mollex are in a page of the new website which will be on-line in some days: http://www.meteoritica.com/nwa%205731%20thin%20sections.htm http://www.meteoritica.com/nwa 5731 thin sections.htm Enjoy, Philippe & Lea METEORITICA www.meteoritica.com From damoclid at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 12:55:09 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:55:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Series or just one? Message-ID: <114848.33500.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I was watching Meteorite Men again last night and was wondering if anyone knows if the program is a series or if it is a single, stand alone program? (Jeff or Steve?) It certainly appears to be the first in a series, but I haven't seen anything to confirm this. Thanks -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jun 5 13:08:07 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:08:07 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Thin Sections, all the cool kids are doing it! Message-ID: Hello List, I have added a few things to my Ebay Store. Some cool Oriented Gaos and other oddities. Of note is the 20% sale I am running on the Thin Sections for this weekend (starting at 1pm Eastern). They were priced low to start with. 20% off is a great deal. Even if you don't have a microscope, don't let that stop you from buying some cool and cheap thin sections. It is a great way to show people what scientists do with meteorites. You can even take polarized lenses from sunglasses and place it behind the thin section and the other one turn 90 degrees and place it in front of it, and whamo, you have a plethora of amazing colors streaming to you. It is enough to make people who can't even spell "meteorite" to say "Wow!" Join in on the fun. All the cool kids are doing it! Go ahead, I won't tell your Mom. Check them out here: http://stores.ebay.com/Steve-Arnold-Meteorites?refid=store Enjoy! Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml cntnew00000007) From damoclid at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 13:17:54 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 10:17:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Series or just one? Message-ID: <232423.85913.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry, Geoff... Not Jeff -- Richard From epgrondine at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 13:24:55 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 10:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination Message-ID: <107375.59519.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all - One of the big reasons for the push behind panspermia comes from the usual manned Mars flight nuts who hope to wish away the back-contamination problem. One can read Zubrin or his followers to see examples this kind of wishful hand waving and jumping and shouting (Fearing the Dragons). But Mars will have to be shown to harbor no pathogens or life before manned Mars flight with return is permitted, in my opinion. The possible consequences otherwise are a show stopper. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jun 5 14:13:21 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 11:13:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination In-Reply-To: <107375.59519.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <107375.59519.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A296041.7030205@meteoritesusa.com> Hmmm... Though related to my questions, it's not exactly what I was referring to... I'm not familiar with Zubrin, but it sounds as if it's not really something I want to get into a debate about. Your comment about pathogens and manned flight returning from Mars poses a serious implication. I was however unaware there was a "push" behind the panspermia and it's relation to back contamination... Regards, Eric E.P. Grondine wrote: > Hi all - > > One of the big reasons for the push behind panspermia comes from the usual manned Mars flight nuts who hope to wish away the back-contamination problem. > One can read Zubrin or his followers to see examples this kind of wishful hand waving and jumping and shouting (Fearing the Dragons). > > But Mars will have to be shown to harbor no pathogens or life before manned Mars flight with return is permitted, in my opinion. The possible consequences otherwise are a show stopper. > > E.P. Grondine > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jun 5 15:47:07 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 05 Jun 2009 19:47:07 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5731 thin sections images for chondrules fans Message-ID: Bonjour, salut, L?a et Philippe, > I cannot resist to the temptation to show, to the fans of chondrules, the > images of the thin sections (NWA 5731, LL3) which I have just obtained. Wow! Definitely a feast for a chondrule lover's eyes! Will have to buy a slice of NWA 5731 and a thin section (or two, maybe three ;-) at the 10th Meteorite Show in Ensisheim this year! See you in Ensisheim soon! http://www.meteoritica.com/nwa%205731%20thin%20sections.htm A bient?t ? Ensisheim, Bernd From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 16:08:47 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer Message-ID: <294076.74712.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Pete sometime let me tell you about the First Church of the Navelites.. but to your question They would be called meteorites until identified as originating from the Earth--then the debate is opened up again. Recently someone at NASA or in the IAU stated the new definition of meteorite includes any rocky object falling onto the surface of any planet should be regarded as a meteorite (my translation) I recently read a calculation of the number of Earth originating rocks gone to meteorites on the moon and on Mars and it was a fairly high number within the realistic realm of being identified as such. A further subset of missing nomenclature is what to call returning non tektite ejecta that may have orbited a while and get returned much later. The Reis impactor is a candidate for having been able to eject rocks into orbit. As I've mentioned it before, it hurled some multi-ton limestone boulders over 60 miles up a mountain side in Austria. A meteorite could not eject material into space from earth but an asteroid sized impactor most certainly has in the past. That is the physics don't prohibit it. Elton --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote: > From: Pete Shugar at clearwire.net > Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 12:02 AM > We have the Martian type meteorite, > and we have the > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. > These we know where they come from. > > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, > or maybe Earthite? > Just contemplating my navel here. > Pete > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 16:16:35 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Assorted Thin Section Images Message-ID: <299823.56480.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I thought I would add a little something to the thin section posts. I have become a very big fan of thin sections since my introduction to them. I find they offer a really unique look into just what meteorites really are. I owe a big thanks to Anthony Love at App State for sparking my interest into them as it has opened a new world up to me. I have started to get a nice collection going and would suggest for any meteorite collector to check into getting a thin section ot two when they are offered by members of the list. That said, here is a small portion of images from a few favorites in my collection. Camel Donga - Eucrite http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/CamelDongaTS1.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/CamelDongaTS2.jpg NWA 5480 - Olivine Diogenite (This looked so nice, I had a few made!) http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_5480_11.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_5480_5.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_5480_4.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_5480_3.jpg NWA 1877 - Olivine Diogenite http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_1877_1.jpg NWA Howardite http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/HowarditeDL.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/HowarditeDL_2.jpg NWA 3140 - Ureilite http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA3140_1.jpg A few very nice uNWA thins sections I hade made http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/GC_246-1.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSC00187.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSC00188.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSC00189.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/GC_245-1.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/GC_6_4-1.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/GC_281.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/GC_6_6-1.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/GC_6_7-1.jpg Enjoy, Greg C. From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 16:18:08 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space Message-ID: <472246.82233.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Totally agree with Mark's quote below about Panspermia. As to reverse contamination-- studies so far suggest launching and landing temperatures are sufficiently low that neither process sterilizes the cargo: Mars to Earth or Earth to Mars transport. Elton --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Mark Ford wrote: << To be honest this whole Panspermia concept, has become a bit of a religion in some circles,? how is it more likely that Earth was seeded by alien life than that that the Earth started life by itself? Earth is perfect for life, all the ingredients are or where present, we haven't seen anywhere else in the universe like earth for long enough, so it seems sensible to assume it all started right here...? in a galaxy not so very far away.. Mark>> From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 16:29:17 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 16:29:17 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space In-Reply-To: <472246.82233.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <472246.82233.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks to Eric for starting this discussion. It's been great reading - pass the popcorn. :) One thought from the peanut gallery - what if we (or some other species) accidentally "terraformed" a world by contaminating it with microbes? Imagine if a world like Mars got infected (so to speak) with a CO2-eating microbe that releases oxygen? Here the line between panspermia, contamination, and terraforming gets a little blurry. What if an intergalactic RV mistook our world for a dumping station and left us with the gift that keeps on giving? We may end up doing the same - intentionally or accidentally. Best regards, MikeG On 6/5/09, Mr EMan wrote: > > Totally agree with Mark's quote below about Panspermia. As to reverse > contamination-- studies so far suggest launching and landing temperatures > are sufficiently low that neither process sterilizes the cargo: Mars to > Earth or Earth to Mars transport. > > Elton > --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Mark Ford wrote: > > > << To be honest this whole Panspermia concept, has become a > bit of a religion in some circles, how is it more likely that > Earth was seeded by alien life than that that the Earth started life by > itself? Earth is perfect for life, all the ingredients are or where > present, we haven't seen anywhere else in the universe like earth for long > enough, so it seems sensible to assume it all started right here... > in a galaxy not so very far away.. > > Mark>> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Jun 5 16:34:09 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 14:34:09 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space References: <472246.82233.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53327F8BC66A44939A2BA22E19CEF04F@bellatrix> There are really two kinds of panspermia. The extreme sort, which is hard to take seriously, is that life was seeded on Earth from deep space. The other, which is hard _not_ to take seriously, is that life (or its building blocks) might have been distributed within the Solar System by impacts. It is somewhat relevant to sample return missions or manned missions because if (for example) there is life on Mars that is related to life on Earth, it is much more likely to be pathogenic than any life that developed independently. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: "metlist" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space Totally agree with Mark's quote below about Panspermia. As to reverse contamination-- studies so far suggest launching and landing temperatures are sufficiently low that neither process sterilizes the cargo: Mars to Earth or Earth to Mars transport. Elton --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Mark Ford wrote: << To be honest this whole Panspermia concept, has become a bit of a religion in some circles, how is it more likely that Earth was seeded by alien life than that that the Earth started life by itself? Earth is perfect for life, all the ingredients are or where present, we haven't seen anywhere else in the universe like earth for long enough, so it seems sensible to assume it all started right here... in a galaxy not so very far away.. Mark>> From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 5 16:35:07 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:35:07 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination Message-ID: Uh oh, too late! I have a few Martian crumbs in my collection. *cough* *cough* Getting dizzy... Carl Eric wrote: ...Your comment about pathogens and manned flight returning from Mars poses a serious implication... _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jun 5 16:26:29 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 05 Jun 2009 20:26:29 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Assorted Thin Section Images Message-ID: Greg C. writes: "I thought I would add a little something to the thin section posts." A "little something" is clearly an understatement. Wow! Thanks for sharing them with us! Beautiful insights into the microcosmos of our beloved meteorites! Best wishes, Bernd From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Fri Jun 5 16:39:55 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:39:55 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space In-Reply-To: References: <472246.82233.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <37C0DC1E-E17C-4CF2-BB1F-3672C396001F@comcast.net> Test Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jun 5, 2009, at 1:29 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" wrote: > Thanks to Eric for starting this discussion. It's been great reading > - pass the popcorn. :) > > One thought from the peanut gallery - what if we (or some other > species) accidentally "terraformed" a world by contaminating it with > microbes? Imagine if a world like Mars got infected (so to speak) > with a CO2-eating microbe that releases oxygen? Here the line between > panspermia, contamination, and terraforming gets a little blurry. > What if an intergalactic RV mistook our world for a dumping station > and left us with the gift that keeps on giving? We may end up doing > the same - intentionally or accidentally. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > > On 6/5/09, Mr EMan wrote: >> >> Totally agree with Mark's quote below about Panspermia. As to reverse >> contamination-- studies so far suggest launching and landing >> temperatures >> are sufficiently low that neither process sterilizes the cargo: >> Mars to >> Earth or Earth to Mars transport. >> >> Elton >> --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Mark Ford wrote: >> >> >> << To be honest this whole Panspermia concept, has become a >> bit of a religion in some circles, how is it more likely that >> Earth was seeded by alien life than that that the Earth started >> life by >> itself? Earth is perfect for life, all the ingredients are or where >> present, we haven't seen anywhere else in the universe like earth >> for long >> enough, so it seems sensible to assume it all started right here... >> in a galaxy not so very far away.. >> >> Mark>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Jun 5 16:41:51 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 14:41:51 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination References: Message-ID: Hyperventilate and start drinking Sterno... Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl 's" To: Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination Uh oh, too late! I have a few Martian crumbs in my collection. *cough* *cough* Getting dizzy... Carl From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 5 16:52:31 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:52:31 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination Message-ID: Yes, I recall a movie about hyperventilation. Don't remember the sterno part, though. Feel better already, thanks! *wheeze* Carl _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jun 5 16:56:52 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:56:52 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer In-Reply-To: <294076.74712.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090605165652.SBIV5.249715.imail@fed1rmwml45> Elton, There you go again providing the perfect answers. Thank you. I have a few follow-up questions for you; If an Earth meteorite (terrene) were to return back to Earth, would we be able to identify it correctly? That is to say would we not simply ASSume it came from the moon? As a moon meteorite would also have Earth air or isotopes? We make new supposed Lunar meteorite discoveries with new materials all the time. So again I ask is there a way to be certain where it came from? I ask because if is not mostly plagioclase, it seems to me most investigators would simply toss it aside and say; it is not a meteorite, that is a rind or weathered Earth rock not fusion crust. So, another question would be this; if it clearly has a fusion crust complete with the gas bubbles would there be a way to prove it is in fact a genuine fusion crust??? Thanks Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 ---- Mr EMan wrote: > > Pete sometime let me tell you about the First Church of the Navelites.. but to your question > > They would be called meteorites until identified as originating from the Earth--then the debate is opened up again. > > Recently someone at NASA or in the IAU stated the new definition of meteorite includes any rocky object falling onto the surface of any planet should be regarded as a meteorite (my translation) > > I recently read a calculation of the number of Earth originating rocks gone to meteorites on the moon and on Mars and it was a fairly high number within the realistic realm of being identified as such. > > A further subset of missing nomenclature is what to call returning non tektite ejecta that may have orbited a while and get returned much later. The Reis impactor is a candidate for having been able to eject rocks into orbit. As I've mentioned it before, it hurled some multi-ton limestone boulders over 60 miles up a mountain side in Austria. > > A meteorite could not eject material into space from earth but an asteroid sized impactor most certainly has in the past. That is the physics don't prohibit it. > > Elton > --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote: > > > From: Pete Shugar at clearwire.net > > Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 12:02 AM > > We have the Martian type meteorite, > > and we have the > > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. > > These we know where they come from. > > > > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite > > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon > > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, > > or maybe Earthite? > > Just contemplating my navel here. > > Pete > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 17:04:44 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:04:44 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I caught Andromeda Strain from a Tagish Lake sample when I first started collecting. 500mg of Amoxicillin, twice a day, knocked it out pretty quick. ;) On 6/5/09, Carl 's wrote: > > > > Yes, I recall a movie about hyperventilation. Don't remember the sterno > part, though. Feel better already, thanks! *wheeze* > > Carl > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From gmhupe at htn.net Fri Jun 5 17:12:12 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:12:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination References: Message-ID: <25046B1BBA5340EDA80EC7A25CEC772C@Gregor> Better yet... I recommend 10mg of NWA 998 crumbs in a glass of champagne, followed by 20mg of NWA 482 (or 3163) in a glass of iced rum and coke (fizzles pretty well! or was that my brain?!). Don't laugh, really happened, except for the fizzled brain (but now I am beginning to wonder a few years later... :-/ Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Carl 's" Cc: Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination I caught Andromeda Strain from a Tagish Lake sample when I first started collecting. 500mg of Amoxicillin, twice a day, knocked it out pretty quick. ;) On 6/5/09, Carl 's wrote: > > > > Yes, I recall a movie about hyperventilation. Don't remember the sterno > part, though. Feel better already, thanks! *wheeze* > > Carl > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 17:23:17 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:23:17 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination In-Reply-To: <25046B1BBA5340EDA80EC7A25CEC772C@Gregor> References: <25046B1BBA5340EDA80EC7A25CEC772C@Gregor> Message-ID: All kidding aside - I had a customer tell me once, that many years ago, back in the 1950s when he was a kid, he got his hands on some trinitite and proceeded to eat a piece of it. He thought he might acquire super powers - like the comic books said at that time. After some back and forth, I determined that he was dead serious and wasn't yanking my chain. I asked him how much he ate and he says it was a small amount. I cannot help but wonder if : he developed any super powers, or if he has a case of some rare abdominal cancer brewing up and waiting to rear it's ugly head. Needless to say, I strongly advise against consuming trinitite. Besides, the mutations it bestows are random, so you might end up with superhuman fingernail growth instead of telekinesis - in addition to the weird obscure cancers. ;) Best regards, MikeG On 6/5/09, Greg Hupe wrote: > Better yet... > > I recommend 10mg of NWA 998 crumbs in a glass of champagne, followed by 20mg > of NWA 482 (or 3163) in a glass of iced rum and coke (fizzles pretty well! > or was that my brain?!). > > Don't laugh, really happened, except for the fizzled brain (but now I am > beginning to wonder a few years later... :-/ > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" > To: "Carl 's" > Cc: > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 5:04 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination > > > I caught Andromeda Strain from a Tagish Lake sample when I first > started collecting. 500mg of Amoxicillin, twice a day, knocked it out > pretty quick. ;) > > > On 6/5/09, Carl 's wrote: >> >> >> >> Yes, I recall a movie about hyperventilation. Don't remember the sterno >> part, though. Feel better already, thanks! *wheeze* >> >> Carl >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. >> http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 5 19:13:41 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 16:13:41 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination Message-ID: Greg, MikeG and All, That's why I never eat cereal while I admire my little planetary crumbs. I may inadvertanly eat them. May be a source of fiber but could ruin my day. Greg, you say the stuff fizzles? Like into nothingness? Carl _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From pshugar at clearwire.net Fri Jun 5 19:34:43 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar@clearwire.net) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:34:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] On a serious note Message-ID: <68466D5E7A3045C9ACE452B1D2B8E976@laptop> I propose an experiment...... A small container containing a mixture of gasses that are the equal to a Mars atmosphere with a mixture of some material from a Mars meteorite. (Such material needs to come from the center of the meteorite to lessen the chances of contamination from earth origins). Lighting can be tailored to match Mars as well. If this were done in something like the Lunar Lab at NASA under very controlled conditions, would our Earth organisms survive? I'm sure we could achieve an insulated container that could be turned into a small microcosm of Mars. This just might give an answer to the question of weather Earth "bugs" could survive on Mars. Pete IMCA 1733 From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 19:38:13 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 16:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination Message-ID: <703235.71467.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> On a more realistic note...(though I applaud the jocularity) The whole fear that return samples from Mars, either by robotic mission or manned, seems thoroughly irrational to me. The very idea that a microbe that MAY exist on present day Mars that will have spent 3 Aeons adapting to a cold, dry, low atmospheric pressure, slow metabolic existence would thrive inside a human body seems, frankly ludicrous. On earth, extremophiles can only exist in their own little niches because once they are out of them, they either die from conditions or competition from better adapted organisms. Given the opportunity to go to Mars, I'd be there like a shot and I'd take my chances. As for Greg's Martian Champagne. I can't help feeling we have an idea for the latest "trendy" craze to part overpaid footballers (soccer players) from their cash. I reckon you could get these self centred egotists to pay ?300 ($500) for a glass of "Rock Rose" or "Selene Rum" (registered trade marks, patent pending) as they attempt to impress their friends/one night stands and probably make enough money in a month to retire on in London. I'm gonna be rich Rob --- On Sat, 6/6/09, Carl 's wrote: > From: Carl 's > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, June 6, 2009, 12:13 AM > > > > > Greg, MikeG and All, > > That's why I never eat cereal while I admire my little > planetary crumbs. I may inadvertanly eat them. May be a > source of fiber but could ruin my day. Greg, you say the > stuff fizzles? Like into nothingness? > > Carl > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right > for you. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 20:06:19 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:06:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer Message-ID: <759254.46564.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> This is a recurrent theme, one I am interested in myself and when I first joined this list I heard a lot of really good stuff but never saved the mails. Earth vs lunar is quite easy to nail down. The geology of lunar meteorites tend to be rather similar despite different physical appearances. There are only 4 major minerals in lunar meteorites (which is fewer even than Holland's geology!!!!). Oh, and they're all anhydrous. So many terrestrial minerals can only be formed in the presence of water and this leads to a greater diversity of rocks here despite being isotopically matched to the moon. Everything else you pointed out seems to be hitting the nail right on the head. I've heard reports (from previous postings to this list) that suggest meteorites have been found that have been discarded because they were terrestrial. Somebody else with more experience and knowledge may want to clarify this, but wasn't Ninninger one of the people who thew out a load of meteorites because they were terrestrial and at least one other person collected stuff but never formally had them studied because he feared being ridiculed for saying his rocks were meteorites when he knew darn well the rocks were of terrestrial origin. They had clear fusion crusts and everything else. Most likely, many terrestrial meteorites would be discarded for these reasons. Once a fusion crust is gone, they'd simply be unrecognised. What it really needs is for an observed fall to be confirmed as terrestrial. Chances of that are pretty low, though. As yet, there is no observed Lunar fall and only a few martians. Rob --- On Fri, 6/5/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > From: cdtucson at cox.net > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer > To: "Mr EMan" , "meteoritelist" > Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 9:56 PM > Elton, > There you go again providing the perfect answers. Thank > you. > I have a few follow-up questions for you; > If an Earth meteorite (terrene) were to return back to > Earth, would we be able to identify it correctly? That is to > say would we not simply ASSume it came from the moon? As a > moon meteorite would also have Earth air or isotopes? We > make new supposed Lunar meteorite discoveries with new > materials all the time. So again I ask is there a way to be > certain where it came from? I ask because if is not mostly > plagioclase, it seems to me most investigators would simply > toss it aside and say; it is not a meteorite, that is a rind > or weathered Earth rock not fusion crust. So, another > question would be this; if it clearly has a fusion crust > complete with the gas bubbles would there be a way to prove > it is in fact a genuine fusion crust??? Thanks > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5829 > > > ---- Mr EMan > wrote: > > > > Pete sometime let me tell you about the First Church > of the Navelites.. but to your question > > > > They would be called meteorites until identified as > originating from the Earth--then the debate is opened up > again. > > > > Recently someone at NASA or in the IAU stated the new > definition of meteorite includes any rocky object falling > onto the surface of any planet should be regarded as a > meteorite (my translation) > > > > I recently read a calculation of the number of Earth > originating rocks gone to meteorites on the moon and on Mars > and it was a fairly high number within the realistic realm > of being identified as such. > > > > A further subset of missing nomenclature is what to > call returning non tektite ejecta that may have orbited a > while and get returned much later.? The Reis impactor > is a candidate for having been able to eject rocks into > orbit.? As I've mentioned it before, it hurled some > multi-ton limestone boulders over 60 miles up a mountain > side in Austria. > > > > A meteorite could not eject material into space from > earth but an asteroid sized impactor most certainly has in > the past.? That is the physics don't prohibit it. > > > > Elton > > --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Pete Shugar at clearwire.net > > wrote: > > > > > From: Pete Shugar at clearwire.net > > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 12:02 AM > > > We have the Martian type meteorite, > > > and we have the > > > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta > meteorite. > > > These we know where they come from. > > > > > > Now the question---given enough energy, can a > meteorite > > > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on > the moon > > > or Mars? What would we call such a > meteorite---Earthoid, > > > or maybe Earthite? > > > Just contemplating my navel here. > > > Pete > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Fri Jun 5 20:26:32 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 02:26:32 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination In-Reply-To: <703235.71467.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <703235.71467.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008d01c9e63d$71d1faf0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Btw. Are there already results of the SPORES and the MARSTOX II experiments available? Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Rob McCafferty Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Juni 2009 01:38 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination On a more realistic note...(though I applaud the jocularity) The whole fear that return samples from Mars, either by robotic mission or manned, seems thoroughly irrational to me. The very idea that a microbe that MAY exist on present day Mars that will have spent 3 Aeons adapting to a cold, dry, low atmospheric pressure, slow metabolic existence would thrive inside a human body seems, frankly ludicrous. On earth, extremophiles can only exist in their own little niches because once they are out of them, they either die from conditions or competition from better adapted organisms. Given the opportunity to go to Mars, I'd be there like a shot and I'd take my chances. As for Greg's Martian Champagne. I can't help feeling we have an idea for the latest "trendy" craze to part overpaid footballers (soccer players) from their cash. I reckon you could get these self centred egotists to pay ?300 ($500) for a glass of "Rock Rose" or "Selene Rum" (registered trade marks, patent pending) as they attempt to impress their friends/one night stands and probably make enough money in a month to retire on in London. I'm gonna be rich Rob --- On Sat, 6/6/09, Carl 's wrote: > From: Carl 's > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, June 6, 2009, 12:13 AM > > > > > Greg, MikeG and All, > > That's why I never eat cereal while I admire my little > planetary crumbs. I may inadvertanly eat them. May be a > source of fiber but could ruin my day. Greg, you say the > stuff fizzles? Like into nothingness? > > Carl > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right > for you. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From pshugar at clearwire.net Fri Jun 5 21:32:34 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar@clearwire.net) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 20:32:34 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Addendum to "On a Serious Note" Message-ID: <4B79C7F954B74154BD5EF6E7961AAD20@laptop> Well, some further thoughts........ There are some things we would not be able to control. The gravitational field. The electrical field and it's associated magnetic field. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that there was lightning on Mars. This would provide that requsite lightning strike. An electrode passing thru the "glass wall" of the Martian Landscape.can conduct a voltage spark from a Van De Graff generator or a Tesla coil. I don't think a spark of electricity will contaminate the "soil". There is the question of micro amounts of material from the electrode being deposited inside from the discharge of the spark. I would also suggest that material from several different meteorites be in the container for the Martian soil. As to what the Earth "bug" would be that's put into Mars enviroment--- I leave this up to someone more qualified to answer. Then we have the reverse of all this should we ever discover a Mars "bug" Pete IMCA 1733 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Fri Jun 5 23:04:44 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 23:04:44 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 6, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_6_2009.html __________________________ http://www.rocksfromspace.org __________________________ **************Mortgage rates drop to record lows. $200,000 for $1,029/mo Fixed. LendingTree? (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222653866x1201461148/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.lendingtree.com%2Fborrower%2Falliance%2Ffrom.as p%3Fwhereto%3Dpromopagev3%26promo%3D00279%26loan%5Ftype%3D2%26source%3D28895 60%26esourceid%3D2889560%26800num%3D1%2D800%2D289%2D3915%26AdType%3D2) From GeoZay at aol.com Fri Jun 5 23:50:04 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 23:50:04 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Addendum to "On a Serious Note" Message-ID: This all reminds me of the experiment that Dr. Harold Urey performed many years ago that produced amino acids from inorganic chemicals that simulated an early earth environment. GeoZay >>There are some things we would not be able to control. The gravitational field. The electrical field and it's associated magnetic field. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that there was lightning on Mars. This would provide that requsite lightning strike. An electrode passing thru the "glass wall" of the Martian Landscape.can conduct a voltage spark from a Van De Graff generator or a Tesla coil. I don't think a spark of electricity will contaminate the "soil". There is the question of micro amounts of material from the electrode being deposited inside from the discharge of the spark. I would also suggest that material from several different meteorites be in the container for the Martian soil. As to what the Earth "bug" would be that's put into Mars enviroment--- I leave this up to someone more qualified to answer. Then we have the reverse of all this should we ever discover a Mars "bug">> **************Mortgage rates drop to record lows. $200,000 for $1,029/mo Fixed. LendingTree? (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222653866x1201461148/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.lendingtree.com%2Fborrower%2Falliance%2Ffrom.as p%3Fwhereto%3Dpromopagev3%26promo%3D00279%26loan%5Ftype%3D2%26source%3D28895 60%26esourceid%3D2889560%26800num%3D1%2D800%2D289%2D3915%26AdType%3D2) From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 23:58:50 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 20:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer Message-ID: <851987.85672.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> You are too kind, Carl. Let me address your questions inside your quote: --- On Fri, 6/5/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: Q: I have a few follow-up questions for you; If an Earth meteorite (terrene) were to return back to Earth, would we be able to identify it correctly? A: Yes and No. IF you look at the locations of recent major impacts(80 Million years or later) and consider the bedrock/ target rock-type at the launch origin. It narrows the filed of possible rock types. The best candidate is Reis crater in Germany which lies on limestone. The Canadian shield cluster and Popogui impacts are far too (old we think) and that leaves Chesapeake, Chicxulub, The un-named crater in the North Sea off Scotland and Wetumpka Al. So far as I know all these excavated down to deep crystalline basement rock so most have a component of igneous rock mixed with the sedimentary kinds. Statistically the older the impact the more likely that any orbitally ejected material will have already fallen back long before mankind existed. Someone somewhere did a study of the physics on what sized crater had enough energy to eject material at escape velocity and seems like it was in the range of 5 miles/8km someone with a better database might chime in. Chicxulub target rocks included slates,sandstone, sulfate rocks and weathered lavas . The sulfates are generally too fragile. Sandstone has a wide range of hardness and is more difficult to predict launch integrity and space survival. Quartzite remains the best candidate for launch, survival and recognition but Popagui in Siberia is over 200 myo(?)(Geoff Notkin knows, he fed the mosquitoes there one summer). The crystalline bedrocks are usually pyroxene, mica, feldspar, and silica(quartz) mixtures. Earth rocks tend to have larger grain and clast sizes. Certain grain sizes could only come from Earth as no other planet other than Venus could grow them. That leaves a granitoid rocks and quartzite for best chance of survival and recognition. A fusion crust on those: granite --white to brown with specs of black. Quartzite probably a frosty clear glass coating. When Limestone is heated it does not melt but turns into highly soluble lime (CaO) and Carbon dioxide ( CO2)...so there isn't a fusion crust. It would be white until the first rain. Q: That is to say would we not simply ASSume it came from the moon? As a > moon meteorite would also have Earth air or isotopes? A: Owing that the Earth and Moon came from the same stock we share the same isotope abundances so there is no isotope ratio test to differentiate them. Again grain size and clast sizes would be larger on material from Earth We make new supposed Lunar meteorite discoveries with new > materials all the time. So again I ask is there a way to be > certain where it came from? I ask because if is not mostly > plagioclase, it seems to me most investigators would simply > toss it aside and say; it is not a meteorite, that is a rind > or weathered Earth rock not fusion crust. Yes there is so much industrial slag about even regular moon meteorites look like it but I will keep looking for out of place rocks. Moon material from the Mares is hard to differentiate from earth basalt save for the clasts. The feldspars could come from anywhere in New Hampshire, Vermont-- actually most all of New England, so again anyone looking would need a very trained eye. I think the first identified Earthite will be the one that crashes through a roof and makes someone take a hard look. Right now unless it were very very old due to an extremely large orbit that took 700-1300 million years to decay-- there are no candidate craters on Earth that are in feldspar-rich bedrock that come to mind. Actually Nininger(?) or someone--found a limestone object that was reported to be a fall and in fact he thought it to be a meteorite but it was so unlike anything known it was unable to prove it. The where-a-bouts of the object is unknown. It is listed as a psuedo-meteorite in the Natural History (British) Museum's Catalog of meteorites Q: So, another > question would be this; if it clearly has a fusion crust > complete with the gas bubbles would there be a way to prove > it is in fact a genuine fusion crust??? The short answer: Cosmic ray tracks and enriched tritium from solar wind would be proof that the material had been in space. Fusion crust in my book is over rated as "proof" owing to the wide occurrence of industrial glass so widely spread on Earth AND poorly understood/recognized accurately as everyone claims fusion crust when in fact the crust is long gone and they are looking at the ablation surface. An ablation surface can look like water or wind-worn surfaces. You are Welcome, Elton From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 6 00:26:12 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 21:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer Correction#1 Message-ID: <65143.37703.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> OOps Popagui is spelled Popigai and is almost the same age as Chesapeake Bay. I am aware there is a lot of brecciated quartzite in the rim so it is another candidate for producing "Earthites" Elton From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 6 01:54:43 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 00:54:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer References: <851987.85672.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <96D59AF663234A21931A29838B2F50B1@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, E and List, Bret Gladman's simulations of rocks blasted off the Earth by impact show about 50% of them being "re-captured" from independent orbits and returning as "meteorites." The time scale for re-capture varies from 10,000 years to 10,000,000 years. So, if there were any returns from the Ries impactor, they would already be here, mostly likely. Sedimentary meteorites are discussed here: http://meteorite-identification.com/mwnews/BLECKENSTAD.htm Monica Grady, looking for a possible Martian sedimentary stone, wrote a paper requesting museums and collections to look for such anomalous stones as might be found in their dusty drawers or cabinets in this publication (p. 77): http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19960027473_1996032004.pdf Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: "meteoritelist" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer > > You are too kind, Carl. Let me address your questions inside your > quote: > > --- On Fri, 6/5/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > Q: I have a few follow-up questions for you; If an Earth meteorite > (terrene) were to return back to Earth, would we be able to identify > it correctly? > > A: Yes and No. IF you look at the locations of recent major > impacts(80 Million years or later) and consider the bedrock/ target > rock-type at the launch origin. It narrows the filed of possible rock > types. > > The best candidate is Reis crater in Germany which lies on limestone. > The Canadian shield cluster and Popogui impacts are far too (old we > think) and that leaves Chesapeake, Chicxulub, The un-named crater in > the North Sea off Scotland and Wetumpka Al. So far as I know all > these excavated down to deep crystalline basement rock so most have a > component of igneous rock mixed with the sedimentary kinds. > > Statistically the older the impact the more likely that any orbitally > ejected material will have already fallen back long before mankind > existed. Someone somewhere did a study of the physics on what sized > crater had enough energy to eject material at escape velocity and > seems like it was in the range of 5 miles/8km someone with a better > database might chime in. > > Chicxulub target rocks included slates,sandstone, sulfate rocks and > weathered lavas . The sulfates are generally too fragile. Sandstone > has a wide range of hardness and is more difficult to predict launch > integrity and space survival. Quartzite remains the best candidate for > launch, survival and recognition but Popagui in Siberia is over 200 > myo(?)(Geoff Notkin knows, he fed the mosquitoes there one summer). > The crystalline bedrocks are usually pyroxene, mica, feldspar, and > silica(quartz) mixtures. Earth rocks tend to have larger grain and > clast sizes. Certain grain sizes could only come from Earth as no > other planet other than Venus could grow them. > > That leaves a granitoid rocks and quartzite for best chance of > survival and recognition. A fusion crust on those: granite --white to > brown with specs of black. Quartzite probably a frosty clear glass > coating. > > When Limestone is heated it does not melt but turns into highly > soluble lime (CaO) and Carbon dioxide ( CO2)...so there isn't a fusion > crust. It would be white until the first rain. > > Q: That is to say would we not simply ASSume it came from the moon? As > a >> moon meteorite would also have Earth air or isotopes? > > A: Owing that the Earth and Moon came from the same stock we share the > same isotope abundances so there is no isotope ratio test to > differentiate them. Again grain size and clast sizes would be larger > on material from Earth > > We make new supposed Lunar meteorite discoveries with new >> materials all the time. So again I ask is there a way to be >> certain where it came from? I ask because if is not mostly >> plagioclase, it seems to me most investigators would simply >> toss it aside and say; it is not a meteorite, that is a rind >> or weathered Earth rock not fusion crust. > > Yes there is so much industrial slag about even regular moon > meteorites look like it but I will keep looking for out of place > rocks. Moon material from the Mares is hard to differentiate from > earth basalt save for the clasts. The feldspars could come from > anywhere in New Hampshire, Vermont-- actually most all of New England, > so again anyone looking would need a very trained eye. I think the > first identified Earthite will be the one that crashes through a roof > and makes someone take a hard look. > > Right now unless it were very very old due to an extremely large orbit > that took 700-1300 million years to decay-- there are no candidate > craters on Earth that are in feldspar-rich bedrock that come to mind. > > Actually Nininger(?) or someone--found a limestone object that was > reported to be a fall and in fact he thought it to be a meteorite but > it was so unlike anything known it was unable to prove it. The > where-a-bouts of the object is unknown. It is listed as a > psuedo-meteorite in the Natural History (British) Museum's Catalog of > meteorites > > Q: So, another >> question would be this; if it clearly has a fusion crust >> complete with the gas bubbles would there be a way to prove >> it is in fact a genuine fusion crust??? > > The short answer: Cosmic ray tracks and enriched tritium from solar > wind would be proof that the material had been in space. Fusion crust > in my book is over rated as "proof" owing to the wide occurrence of > industrial glass so widely spread on Earth AND poorly > understood/recognized accurately as everyone claims fusion crust when > in fact the crust is long gone and they are looking at the ablation > surface. An ablation surface can look like water or wind-worn > surfaces. > > You are Welcome, Elton > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 6 01:56:28 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 00:56:28 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] On a serious note References: <68466D5E7A3045C9ACE452B1D2B8E976@laptop> Message-ID: Hi, Pete, List These experiments have been done, starting early in the 1950's. They were called "Mars Jars"! In general, the answer is that Earthly life of the simple and tough varieties does very well in a wide range of other-worldly environments. This without enough time to genetically adapt to them very much. No doubt in my mind that if we humans travel around the solar system and/or the rest of universe we will, intentionally or inadvertently, drag our terrestrial biota with us. Just look at the spread of invasive species on our own planet -- it's basically uncontrollable in the long term. If there is no life on other worlds now, there will be once we visit. If the kinds of life we know of can adapt and thrive (given billions of years) on the hell-hole this planet was in its beginnings, it can do it anywhere. A fair number of tested microbes did well on Mars Jars. Lichens (primitive plants) did well also. Mark mentioned the Tardigrades, or Water Bears. They did fine in the Mars Jars, all kinds of Mars Jars. If I were going to Mars, I'd hide some Tardi's in my luggage and sprinkle them anywhere that looked wet... Tardigrades are animals just like us -- well, from an alien perspective, they're just like us, legs and heads and eyes and mouths, same organs, even though they are tiny and waddle as they walk. Besides all the Mars Jars tests, there have been tests of growing Earthly plants at Martian pressures (but warmer temperatures) and vegetables do very well if we keep them from freezing. Here's a picture of lettuce in the Martian air: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061009131008.htm Do they have Ranch dressing on Mars? What you have to remember is that lifeforms only need to get a toe-hold and hang on long enough for adaptations that further their survival in that environment to build up. Studies suggest that "contamination" is pretty much inevitable: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7454-earth-microbes-may-survive-on-mars.html To the dismay of the germophobic, larger lifeforms on the Earth swim in a sea of trillions of microbes, are themselves forests full of microbes, drip microbes with every step. Dig a teaspoon of dirt out of your yard; it has a billion inhabitants. Life on Earth is a "life soup." If we go anywhere else in the universe, the rest of Earth's life will go with us, sooner or later, for better or for worse. Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Shugar at clearwire.net" To: Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 6:34 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] On a serious note >I propose an experiment...... > A small container containing a mixture of gasses > that are the equal to a Mars atmosphere with > a mixture of some material from a Mars meteorite. > (Such material needs to come from the center of the meteorite to > lessen the chances of contamination > from earth origins). > Lighting can be tailored to match Mars as well. > If this were done in something like the Lunar Lab > at NASA under very controlled conditions, would our Earth organisms > survive? > I'm sure we could achieve an insulated container > that could be turned into a small microcosm of Mars. > This just might give an answer to the question of weather > Earth "bugs" could survive on Mars. > Pete IMCA 1733 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Jun 6 02:05:44 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 00:05:44 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination References: <703235.71467.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >The whole fear that return samples from Mars, either >by robotic mission or manned, seems thoroughly irrational to me. I think that's a little extreme, but I certainly agree with you that any life on Mars is very unlikely to be pathogenic. On Earth, only a tiny percentage of microbes are pathogens, and the majority of those have evolved as such in concert with our own evolution. Pathogens and their hosts are, quite literally, made for each other. Still, some microbes are incredibly hardy, and the potential that something from either planet might become an invasive species on the other (with unknown environmental consequences) should at least be taken into consideration when designing missions. If nothing else, any cross contamination could thoroughly ruin the quality of science that can be performed. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCafferty" To: Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination > > On a more realistic note...(though I applaud the jocularity) > > The whole fear that return samples from Mars, either by robotic mission or > manned, seems thoroughly irrational to me. > > The very idea that a microbe that MAY exist on present day Mars that will > have spent 3 Aeons adapting to a cold, dry, low atmospheric pressure, slow > metabolic existence would thrive inside a human body seems, frankly > ludicrous. > > On earth, extremophiles can only exist in their own little niches because > once they are out of them, they either die from conditions or competition > from better adapted organisms. > > Given the opportunity to go to Mars, I'd be there like a shot and I'd take > my chances. > > As for Greg's Martian Champagne. I can't help feeling we have an idea for > the latest "trendy" craze to part overpaid footballers (soccer players) > from their cash. > I reckon you could get these self centred egotists to pay ?300 ($500) for > a glass of "Rock Rose" or "Selene Rum" (registered trade marks, patent > pending) as they attempt to impress their friends/one night stands and > probably make enough money in a month to retire on in London. > > I'm gonna be rich > > Rob From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 6 02:16:56 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 01:16:56 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Microbes on Mars get a negative report Message-ID: <330296AD4C72405CADC65FC0E4C2E595@ATARIENGINE2> Just out today: a study that Earth microbes would not do well on Mars: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090604-am-mars-microbe.html Clearly, opinion is all over the map on this. Sterling K. Webb From mexicodoug at aim.com Sat Jun 6 03:34:00 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:34:00 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop> <4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov> Message-ID: <8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com> Dr. Grossman wrote: "I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite." Hi Jeff, Definitely those are viable options, though I think this subject would spark more debate than Pluto, Plutonian and Plutonic in these extended circles if it ever had a type specimen. I think the name "TELLURIAN", the adjective (From TELLUS[Earth]) might be another option, and perhaps more harmonic. Given the confusion and stigma with "terrestrial" in meteoritics frequently being used to describe meteorwrongs, I think this third choice could be considered on equal footing without having the baggage. Do I recall many scientists objecting for example to the useage of "plutonic" as an adjective for Plutoness? Utilizing Mars as an example and considering the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some authors these days rather than "Terra Mater", the Roman goddess. As for Terran, it sounds a bit far fetched to me, but hey... For meteorite collectors who will no doubt be the first to collect these so far legendary things, it seems our examples: martian meteorite (martian for short) lunar meteorite (lunar for short, ocassionally the throat-twisting lunaite) ...why not: tellurian meteorite (tellurian for short) Tellus, the equivalent Roman Earth goddess as Terra Mater, which further rounds out the Earth-panteon of Roman possibilities, seems almost a natural option and probably just slipped your list. I didn't mention tellurite since there is already a mineral named this with a cool blue subadamantine sheen...chemists (who as we know generally don't get no respect from geologists) that discovered the metallic element opted for Tellurium to name it after Earth, of course, for similar considerations we have now, and probably too avoid confusion with terrariums, those fish tanks filled with dirt. Ironically, Earth's crust is astonishingly poor in this element, vs. meteorites and the cosmos in general. Well, they were chemists after all. So "Terran meteorite" might have an edge here is you like to say Terraite three times fast. (If someone likes tongue-twisters, how about, five times fast, "Terr's Tertiary temper terrified Terry the teary Terran from Tetroe." got to roll the rr's ad pronounce it Tee-troe. Anway, tellurian and terran sounds like great candidates to me. Considering the hard sound of Terran, which sounds a lot like "dirt" (real dumb joke alert) and might give us customs problems when we get our space faring passports or ship meteorites around the Solar system, not to mention hurt meteorite dealers' sales... In any case, I'll wait for the first guy who breaks the myth and recovers material for science to Tellus what to call it. (oops, never hear the end of that one) Hoping to escape this heat and join the Telluridian Festivarians for the Solstice, Doug (chemist) -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Grossman Sent: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite.? ? jeff? ? Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote:? > We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the? > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite.? > These we know where they come from.? >? > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite? > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon? > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid,? > or maybe Earthite?? > Just contemplating my navel here.? > Pete? >? > ______________________________________________? > http://www.meteoritecentral.com? > Meteorite-list mailing list? > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? >? ? -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184? US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383? 954 National Center? Reston, VA 20192, USA? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? From rlenssen at planet.nl Sat Jun 6 03:41:12 2009 From: rlenssen at planet.nl (Rob Lenssen) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 09:41:12 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: type 3 chondrites Message-ID: Hi List, I have three small samples of type 3 chondrites NWA 5729 and NWA 5730 ending at Ebay today: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/rob1612mar Thanks, Rob IMCA #1681 From mexicodoug at aim.com Sat Jun 6 04:20:21 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 04:20:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination In-Reply-To: References: <703235.71467.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CBB496C33B2D9F-1054-2268@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com> "Pathogens and their hosts are, quite literally, made for each other." I understand this statement but disagree with it in the terms of the current debate. It presupposes our thoughts from our experience with life on earth and the equilibrium life has here. At a basic level we are just bags of sugars, proteins and fats. Detritus on earth can be eaten by millions of organisms - just about any organic materials and then there are even critters that can deal with sulfur and nitrogen bases in extreme environments. How many microorganisms can live in detrital composts on Earth? What prevents them from eating organisms that are alive? It is more a one way protection developed by the living host in this convergence, but not necessarily a handicap for the invasive. If the host had no basis for an immune response, microorganisms would eat people alive just as easily as detritus on Earth, like the massacre that happened during the Spanish Conquest of Native America. I guess the question you might raise is: But if Martian microbes had nothing like flesh to eat how would they suddenly become human flesh-eating nanobacteria or whatever, here? Given the harsh Martian environment they ought to be fairly omnivore and if we are presupposing some kind of cellular life (this being subject to another debate) I don't see it as far fetched. Really, if the "Martian pathogen" found anything at all to eat on the smorgasbord of earth it could trash our ecosystem by hitting any level of our equilibrium without being harmful at all directly to humans. It might even be passive and like our oceans and be super-photosynthetic, and as an example peacefully co-exist except for non-stop peeing of cyanide or something such, into the oceans...a la movie Sunshine (2007), the greenhouse in the Icarus 1. Best wishes, Doug PS, the good thing is ... scientists, instead of our immune systems, probably could devise treatments fairly easily, pretty much due to the absence of "being made for each other" (= able to fight back via convergent evolution) cited. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Peterson To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 1:05 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination >The whole fear that return samples from Mars, either? >by robotic mission or manned, seems thoroughly irrational to me.? ? I think that's a little extreme, but I certainly agree with you that any life on Mars is very unlikely to be pathogenic. On Earth, only a tiny percentage of microbes are pathogens, and the majority of those have evolved as such in concert with our own evolution. Pathogens and their hosts are, quite literally, made for each other.? ? Still, some microbes are incredibly hardy, and the potential that something from either planet might become an invasive=2 0species on the other (with unknown environmental consequences) should at least be taken into consideration when designing missions. If nothing else, any cross contamination could thoroughly ruin the quality of science that can be performed.? ? Chris? ? *****************************************? Chris L Peterson? Cloudbait Observatory? http://www.cloudbait.com? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCafferty" ? To: ? Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 5:38 PM? Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination? ? >? > On a more realistic note...(though I applaud the jocularity)? >? > The whole fear that return samples from Mars, either by robotic mission or > manned, seems thoroughly irrational to me.? >? > The very idea that a microbe that MAY exist on present day Mars that will > have spent 3 Aeons adapting to a cold, dry, low atmospheric pressure, slow > metabolic existence would thrive inside a human body seems, frankly > ludicrous.? >? > On earth, extremophiles can only exist in their own little niches because > once they are out of them, they either die from conditions or competition > from better adapted organisms.? >? > Given the opportunity to go to Mars, I'd be there like a shot and I'd take > my chances.? >? > As for Greg's Martian Champagne. I20can't help feeling we have an idea for > the latest "trendy" craze to part overpaid footballers (soccer players) > from their cash.? > I reckon you could get these self centred egotists to pay ?300 ($500) for > a glass of "Rock Rose" or "Selene Rum" (registered trade marks, patent > pending) as they attempt to impress their friends/one night stands and > probably make enough money in a month to retire on in London.? >? > I'm gonna be rich? >? > Rob? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sat Jun 6 08:20:08 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 05:20:08 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite magazine: Celebrating O. Richard Norton's life In-Reply-To: <66717.35236.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4A20A56F.2010905@meteoritesusa.com> <599112.98628.qm@web83813.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <6b7d6d55911c48b593e86d4cc284a82c.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> <66717.35236.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Ruben: WIll you be writing something for this? LArry > > Outstanding!???? Thank you Larry and Nancy Lebofsky! > > ??Ruben Garcia > Phoenix, Arizona > My Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net > My Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ > My Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu" > To: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:44:57 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite magazine: Celebrating O. Richard > Norton's life > > Dear Friends: > > As most of you are aware, O. Richard Norton was a supporter of and > involved with "Meteorite" magazine from the very beginning, He wrote his > first article, ???Meteorites???Chips off the Old Asteroid Block,??? in the > first > issue of "Meteorite!" in 1995. He also wrote ???Centerpiece??? for ten > years. > We will all miss him. > > Because of this, we would like to celebrate the life Richard Norton by > dedicating the November issue of "Meteorite" magazine to him. Many of you > have written to the Meteorite and IMCA lists expressing your feelings and, > in some cases, giving your personal experiences with Richard or with one > of the many books he has written. > > We would like to include a series of anecdotes about your personal > experiences with Richard (or one of his many books) that can be published > in the November issue. As much as possible, we would like to do this as a > historical sequence with pictures, to show who he has influenced in the > meteorite community, in what way, and when. How far back does his > influence go? Ron Hartman and Richard were at UCLA together and Nancy took > an astronomy class and a photography class from him in 1974 and 1975 when > he was the Director of the Grace H. Flandrau Planetarium here in Tucson. > > Please try to limit your text to one or two images and about a hundred > words! > > Please send your emails directly to us at: > > lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu and copy to llebofsky at gmail.com > > Thanks to all of you in advance. > > Larry and Nancy Lebofsky > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Jun 6 09:48:59 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 07:48:59 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination References: <703235.71467.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <8CBB496C33B2D9F-1054-2268@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <71C1D2DE50D04C0E90DFE00CDF43F31A@bellatrix> Our bodies are extremely difficult environments for microbes- much worse than, say, a geothermal vent a few miles down. Your suggestion that Martian microorganisms might have a feast when presented with humans should apply equally well to Earth organisms, most of which have never encountered us and could potentially use us as hosts. But in fact, Earthly microorganisms normally don't do that. We can enter all sorts of unusual environments here, and be exposed to millions of new kinds of microbes, and not encounter any that are pathogenic. I think (and I know its a pretty commonly held opinion by exobiologists) that the likelihood of a microbe that evolved on another planet being pathogenic is extremely small. But not zero, of course, which is why the possibility shouldn't be ignored. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" To: ; Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 2:20 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination "Pathogens and their hosts are, quite literally, made for each other." I understand this statement but disagree with it in the terms of the current debate. It presupposes our thoughts from our experience with life on earth and the equilibrium life has here. At a basic level we are just bags of sugars, proteins and fats. Detritus on earth can be eaten by millions of organisms - just about any organic materials and then there are even critters that can deal with sulfur and nitrogen bases in extreme environments. How many microorganisms can live in detrital composts on Earth? What prevents them from eating organisms that are alive? It is more a one way protection developed by the living host in this convergence, but not necessarily a handicap for the invasive. If the host had no basis for an immune response, microorganisms would eat people alive just as easily as detritus on Earth, like the massacre that happened during the Spanish Conquest of Native America. I guess the question you might raise is: But if Martian microbes had nothing like flesh to eat how would they suddenly become human flesh-eating nanobacteria or whatever, here? Given the harsh Martian environment they ought to be fairly omnivore and if we are presupposing some kind of cellular life (this being subject to another debate) I don't see it as far fetched. Really, if the "Martian pathogen" found anything at all to eat on the smorgasbord of earth it could trash our ecosystem by hitting any level of our equilibrium without being harmful at all directly to humans. It might even be passive and like our oceans and be super-photosynthetic, and as an example peacefully co-exist except for non-stop peeing of cyanide or something such, into the oceans...a la movie Sunshine (2007), the greenhouse in the Icarus 1. Best wishes, Doug PS, the good thing is ... scientists, instead of our immune systems, probably could devise treatments fairly easily, pretty much due to the absence of "being made for each other" (= able to fight back via convergent evolution) cited. From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sat Jun 6 10:12:53 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:12:53 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop><4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov> <8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hiho Doug, >the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some >authors these days rather. Cicero: "ille globus quae terra dicitur.." That ball, we call Earth. In principle "tellus" and "terra" are synonyms, but "tellus" is more poetic, means more the goddess, the Earth as center of the world, in opposite to a celestial body; while "terra" means more the physical matter, the Earth as whole physical entity (in fact as planet, as celestial body, if they wouldn't have had a geocentric system)and also as one of the elements (water, fire..). Although for the elements only, there for was also "solum", means also earth, used, especially in opposite to the element water - see also today "solid". And additionally in the meaning of "land" "ground", "bottom". Finally there is still "humus" for earth. That means earth in the sense of the hierarchic system of the spheres, where the sphere of the element earth was in the center of the universe, (below the sphere of water, below the sphere of air...). So it means the lowest, the inmost. (humble, humiliate ect.). "Tellurem pro terra posuit, quum tellurem deam dicamus, terram elementum." Maurus Servius Honoratus (a grammarian around AD 420) Uh my Latin... well he says, fort he goddess "tellus", fort he element "terra". Hmmm I would say, from the Roman ancient world until the modern times, "terra" was more in use to denominate Earth as planet. (Also because of the Christian tradition, as "terra" is used in the Latin bible. See also Augustinus). So perhaps we should stay with Terra? The adjective to Terra in Latin would be "terrenus". So probably "Terran meteorite" would be correct. Exist also Latin "terrestris", but that means rather "located on Earth, part of the Earth", so we could leave "terrestrial" for pseudo-meteorites. (btw. Mars, Martis --> Martian. (Martinus, says Martin, the Martian). Mercur, Mercuris ---> Mercurian. Venus, Veneris ---> Venerian. (cause I read somewhere Venusian) Hmm the Doug "Dawn"-space probe is on the way to Vesta. Vestalian meteorites sounds a little bit....) Uuuuuuh, a posting like from one of those class mates from the 1st row, you never wanted to be friend with...(Don't know the right expression. Geek? Swot?..) Have a nice weekend! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Mexicodoug Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Juni 2009 09:34 An: jgrossman at usgs.gov; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? Dr. Grossman wrote: "I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite." Hi Jeff, Definitely those are viable options, though I think this subject would spark more debate than Pluto, Plutonian and Plutonic in these extended circles if it ever had a type specimen. I think the name "TELLURIAN", the adjective (From TELLUS[Earth]) might be another option, and perhaps more harmonic. Given the confusion and stigma with "terrestrial" in meteoritics frequently being used to describe meteorwrongs, I think this third choice could be considered on equal footing without having the baggage. Do I recall many scientists objecting for example to the useage of "plutonic" as an adjective for Plutoness? Utilizing Mars as an example and considering the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some authors these days rather than "Terra Mater", the Roman goddess. As for Terran, it sounds a bit far fetched to me, but hey... For meteorite collectors who will no doubt be the first to collect these so far legendary things, it seems our examples: martian meteorite (martian for short) lunar meteorite (lunar for short, ocassionally the throat-twisting lunaite) ...why not: tellurian meteorite (tellurian for short) Tellus, the equivalent Roman Earth goddess as Terra Mater, which further rounds out the Earth-panteon of Roman possibilities, seems almost a natural option and probably just slipped your list. I didn't mention tellurite since there is already a mineral named this with a cool blue subadamantine sheen...chemists (who as we know generally don't get no respect from geologists) that discovered the metallic element opted for Tellurium to name it after Earth, of course, for similar considerations we have now, and probably too avoid confusion with terrariums, those fish tanks filled with dirt. Ironically, Earth's crust is astonishingly poor in this element, vs. meteorites and the cosmos in general. Well, they were chemists after all. So "Terran meteorite" might have an edge here is you like to say Terraite three times fast. (If someone likes tongue-twisters, how about, five times fast, "Terr's Tertiary temper terrified Terry the teary Terran from Tetroe." got to roll the rr's ad pronounce it Tee-troe. Anway, tellurian and terran sounds like great candidates to me. Considering the hard sound of Terran, which sounds a lot like "dirt" (real dumb joke alert) and might give us customs problems when we get our space faring passports or ship meteorites around the Solar system, not to mention hurt meteorite dealers' sales... In any case, I'll wait for the first guy who breaks the myth and recovers material for science to Tellus what to call it. (oops, never hear the end of that one) Hoping to escape this heat and join the Telluridian Festivarians for the Solstice, Doug (chemist) -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Grossman Sent: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite.? ? jeff? ? Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote:? > We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the? > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite.? > These we know where they come from.? >? > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite? > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon? > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid,? > or maybe Earthite?? > Just contemplating my navel here.? > Pete? >? > ______________________________________________? > http://www.meteoritecentral.com? > Meteorite-list mailing list? > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? >? ? -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184? US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383? 954 National Center? Reston, VA 20192, USA? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at tektiteinc.com Sat Jun 6 15:18:56 2009 From: info at tektiteinc.com (info at tektiteinc.com) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 15:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - SALE 50% Off all Rizalites on TektiteInc.com SALE Message-ID: <53687.127.0.0.1.1244315936.squirrel@syd-srv07.ezyreg.com> Hi all, Im having a 50% off Sale for all the Rizalites on my website to make room for a new hobby of mine so please have a look. Im going to have this sale on for 1 month. Free shipping will not be included in this Sale. The breakdown of the shipping charges are below: Under 150g $8 Between 150g to 400g $12 Between 400g to 900g $28 Please note that I do not charge extra or charge a handling fee for my shipping. This pricing is what Phil Post charges me. However, FedEx is offering a special for my business' company account which means I can send specimens that weigh in between 400grams - 900grams for just a couple bucks more than the $28 cost for Air Mail but I will shoulder this cost so that you receive your package a lot faster than my regular Air Mail postage. Thanks for looking. Cheers, Desmond Leong IMCA #2254 http://www.TektiteInc.com http://stores.ebay.com/Tektite-Inc http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtektiteinc-dot-com From mexicodoug at aim.com Sat Jun 6 18:40:21 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 18:40:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop><4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov><8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com> <009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> Hiho Mr. Martindale, (Isn't Miss Martindale a Tellurian? UK humor) The adjective already in the language defined in the more limited manner we want is TERRENE. So throw out TERRAN and use TERRENE and I'm fine, are you? --------------------------------- I didn't think so... all right...mmmm, I'll plug and grind away at some of your reply which seemed to unnecessarily and possibly incorrectly to look to Latin to make up words and take the ancients out of context ... Back to reality, and plain English. (The Italians can debate whether Terran works for them, but that seems like a silly argument for English. "Terran" is not a generally accepted English word that evokes sci-fi to meant it was not my intent to make up new words when sufficient words already exist in plain English - that was the real reason I called it a "sci-fi" word. I do not feel it is in a mere mortal's place to modify the dictionary any more than a fire hydrant. TERRESTRIAL is the word, if we didn't happen to live here and already have plenty of uses for it w/r to meteorites and geology IMO - it seems you are sympathetic to the idea that "terrestrial" has meteorwrong, pseudometeorite, etc. as unwanted confusion and baggage. Besides since all the Inner planets are terrestrial, they are terrestrial meteorites if you want to get picky, vs. cometary, etc. Then weathering, terrestrialization ... Just way too much confusion. So I think TERRENE and TELLURIAN (consistently defined as from earth without inventing a new word) are both fine and not exclusive (of course not, they are words common man has every right to use) any more than calling something a Martian meteorite or a Mars meteorite - where both descriptors are OK. If you want to look for obscure or invented words, TERRAN is great, too, I suppose, as long as you find one first and publish the precedent. Else, I don't agree. Quoting Cicero (unless you mean the guy from Sky & Tel), won't get you any points unless you do a dissertation on what was going on in people's minds back then! Earth was an element, comparable to air and water, not a planet in a modern sense. How do I know Cicero wasn't being sarcastic? Your liberty with the translation of the word dicitur, you try to pass it with authority(!) as nominative and tending to exclusive...hmmm.... perhaps is just means "say", as in this land for which we say dirt? I don't see it very important either way as there is no need to be dweebish (the word you were looking for) by taking quotes out of context of a near dead though beautiful language since OE and Webster's dictionaries have all we need in boldface. In German, Terran might be the right word - no problem! As for the comments about the "poetic negative" for tellurian, you totally lost me there and let me add gender as a factor, is Terran more macho and Tellurian more effeminate and is that you basis - well, earth out to be effeminate as it is named after a woman...like Venus. Mars is masculine sure... I already gave you the support of the periodic chart of the elements tellurium ("from the earth"), which should be enough to earn a place. It may be that some Germans think the entire English Language sounds poetic compared to theirs! When you discuss by some weird logic I don't follow that this poetic stuff extends to it being the goddess as opposed to the planet, I only wish Mr. Peabody were here to send you to have a face to face with the Legions in the WayBack Machine, the you could see that the planets got their names from Gods that represented them, like Jupiter, Mars, Mercury and Venus. Do we call something Jupiteran or Jupiterian? No we call it Jovian. Why? Because it is the word in the dictionary, from Jove, btw, the "poetic" form of Jupiter. That's how adjectives can be ... For parallel logic, you can't help but trip over "Tellurian". I think you would find that the ancients had no reasonable vocabulary to describe adjectives for the Earth as a planet because regardless of what shape they thought it had, it was still the the point of reference for the Universe, and was a different animal from the planets they named. That is why terra means dirt in Italian and Portuguese today. At best it would probably have more to do with the concept of "the world" Mundus or whatever the Latin folk have. The English word for that which has as one definition meaning terrestrial is mundane. So if you want to add "MUNDANE" to the pot , be my guest. And Earth Meteorites seems fine too :) You might take a look at this which I just found, and I was happy to see the sci-fi comment by whoever wrote the current version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexicography_of_Earth Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Martin Altmann To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 9:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? Hiho Doug, >the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some >authors these days rather. Cicero: "ille globus quae terra dicitur.." That ball, we call Earth. In principle "tellus" and "terra" are synonyms, but "tellus" is more poetic, means more the goddess, the Earth as center of the world, in opposite to a celestial body; while "terra" means more the physical matter, the Earth as whole physical entity (in fact as planet, as celestial body, if they wouldn't have had a geocentric system)and also as one of the elements (water, fire..). Although for the elements only, there for was also "solum", means also earth, used, especially in opposite to the element water - see also today "solid". =0 AAnd additionally in the meaning of "land" "ground", "bottom". Finally there is still "humus" for earth. That means earth in the sense of the hierarchic system of the spheres, where the sphere of the element earth was in the center of the universe, (below the sphere of water, below the sphere of air...). So it means the lowest, the inmost. (humble, humiliate ect.). "Tellurem pro terra posuit, quum tellurem deam dicamus, terram elementum." Maurus Servius Honoratus (a grammarian around AD 420) Uh my Latin... well he says, fort he goddess "tellus", fort he element "terra". Hmmm I would say, from the Roman ancient world until the modern times, "terra" was more in use to denominate Earth as planet. (Also because of the Christian tradition, as "terra" is used in the Latin bible. See also Augustinus). So perhaps we should stay with Terra? The adjective to Terra in Latin would be "terrenus". So probably "Terran meteorite" would be correct. Exist also Latin "terrestris", but that means rather "located on Earth, part of the Earth", so we could leave "terrestrial" for pseudo-meteorites. (btw. Mars, Martis --> Martian. (Martinus, says Martin, the Martian). Mercur, Mercuris ---> Mercurian. Venus, Veneris ---> Venerian. (cause I read somewhere Venusian) Hmm the Doug "Dawn"-space probe is on the way to Vesta. Vestalian meteorites sounds a little bit....) Uuuuuuh, a posting like from one of those class mates from th e 1st row, you never wanted to be friend with...(Don't know the right expression. Geek? Swot?..) Have a nice weekend! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Mexicodoug Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Juni 2009 09:34 An: jgrossman at usgs.gov; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? Dr. Grossman wrote: "I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite." Hi Jeff, Definitely those are viable options, though I think this subject would spark more debate than Pluto, Plutonian and Plutonic in these extended circles if it ever had a type specimen. I think the name "TELLURIAN", the adjective (From TELLUS[Earth]) might be another option, and perhaps more harmonic. Given the confusion and stigma with "terrestrial" in meteoritics frequently being used to describe meteorwrongs, I think this third choice could be considered on equal footing without having the baggage. Do I recall many scientists objecting for example to the useage of "plutonic" as an adjective for Plutoness? Utilizing Mars as an example and considering the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some authors these days rather than "Terra Mater", the Roman goddess. As for Terran, it sounds a bit far fetched to me, but hey... For meteorite collectors who will no do ubt be the first to collect these so far legendary things, it seems our examples: martian meteorite (martian for short) lunar meteorite (lunar for short, ocassionally the throat-twisting lunaite) ...why not: tellurian meteorite (tellurian for short) Tellus, the equivalent Roman Earth goddess as Terra Mater, which further rounds out the Earth-panteon of Roman possibilities, seems almost a natural option and probably just slipped your list. I didn't mention tellurite since there is already a mineral named this with a cool blue subadamantine sheen...chemists (who as we know generally don't get no respect from geologists) that discovered the metallic element opted for Tellurium to name it after Earth, of course, for similar considerations we have now, and probably too avoid confusion with terrariums, those fish tanks filled with dirt. Ironically, Earth's crust is astonishingly poor in this element, vs. meteorites and the cosmos in general. Well, they were chemists after all. So "Terran meteorite" might have an edge here is you like to say Terraite three times fast. (If someone likes tongue-twisters, how about, five times fast, "Terr's Tertiary temper terrified Terry the teary Terran from Tetroe." got to roll the rr's ad pronounce it Tee-troe. Anway, tellurian and terran sounds like great candidates to me. Considering the hard sound of Terran, which sounds a lot like "dirt" (real dumb joke alert) and might give us customs problems when we get our space faring passports or ship meteorites around the Solar system, not to mention hurt meteorite dealers' sales... In any case, I'll wait for the first guy who breaks the myth and recovers material for science to Tellus what to call it. (oops, never hear the end of that one) Hoping to escape this heat and join the Telluridian Festivarians for the Solstice, Doug (chemist) -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Grossman Sent: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite.? ? jeff? ? Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote:? > We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the? > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite.? > These we know where they come from.? >? > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite? > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon? > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid,? > or maybe Earthite?? > Just contemplating my navel here.? > Pete? >? > ______________________________________________? > http://www.meteoritecentral.com? > Meteorite-list mailing list? > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? >? ? -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184? US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383? 954 National Center? Reston, VA 20192, USA? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Sat Jun 6 19:09:43 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:09:43 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop><4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov><8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com> <009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <073F5524-4B4A-4A18-AE44-2ED6A28BE63F@comcast.net> Can we find one first before 1000 emails to the list over this stupid thread? Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jun 6, 2009, at 3:40 PM, Mexicodoug wrote: > Hiho Mr. Martindale, (Isn't Miss Martindale a Tellurian? UK humor) > > The adjective already in the language defined in the more limited > manner we want is TERRENE. So throw out TERRAN and use TERRENE and > I'm fine, are you? > > --------------------------------- > > I didn't think so... all right...mmmm, I'll plug and grind away at > some of your reply which seemed to unnecessarily and possibly > incorrectly to look to Latin to make up words and take the ancients > out of context ... > > Back to reality, and plain English. (The Italians can debate whether > Terran works for them, but that seems like a silly argument for > English. "Terran" is not a generally accepted English word that > evokes sci-fi to meant it was not my intent to make up new words > when sufficient words already exist in plain English - that was the > real reason I called it a "sci-fi" word. I do not feel it is in a > mere mortal's place to modify the dictionary any more than a fire > hydrant. > > TERRESTRIAL is the word, if we didn't happen to live here and > already have plenty of uses for it w/r to meteorites and geology IMO > - it seems you are sympathetic to the idea that "terrestrial" has > meteorwrong, pseudometeorite, etc. as unwanted confusion and > baggage. Besides since all the Inner planets are terrestrial, they > are terrestrial meteorites if you want to get picky, vs. cometary, > etc. Then weathering, terrestrialization ... Just way too much > confusion. > > So I > think TERRENE and TELLURIAN (consistently defined as from earth > without inventing a new word) are both fine and not exclusive (of > course not, they are words common man has every right to use) any > more than calling something a Martian meteorite or a Mars meteorite > - where both descriptors are OK. If you want to look for obscure or > invented words, TERRAN is great, too, I suppose, as long as you find > one first and publish the precedent. Else, I don't agree. > > Quoting Cicero (unless you mean the guy from Sky & Tel), won't get > you any points unless you do a dissertation on what was going on in > people's minds back then! Earth was an element, comparable to air > and water, not a planet in a modern sense. > > How do I know Cicero wasn't being sarcastic? Your liberty with the > translation of the word dicitur, you try to pass it with > authority(!) as nominative and tending to exclusive...hmmm.... > perhaps is just means "say", as in this land for which we say dirt? > I don't see it very important either way as there is no need to be > dweebish (the word you were looking for) by taking quotes out of > context of a near dead though beautiful language since OE and > Webster's dictionaries have all we need in boldface. > > In German, Terran might be the right word - no problem! As for the > comments about the "poetic negative" for tellurian, you totally lost > me there and let me add gender as a factor, is Terran more > macho and Tellurian more effeminate and is that you basis - well, > earth out to be effeminate as it is named after a woman...like > Venus. Mars is masculine sure... I already gave you the support of > the periodic chart of the elements tellurium ("from the earth"), > which should be enough to earn a place. It may be that some Germans > think the entire English Language sounds poetic compared to theirs! > When you discuss by some weird logic I don't follow that this poetic > stuff extends to it being the goddess as opposed to the planet, I > only wish Mr. Peabody were here to send you to have a face to face > with the Legions in the WayBack Machine, the you could see that the > planets got their names from Gods that represented them, like > Jupiter, Mars, Mercury and Venus. Do we call something Jupiteran or > Jupiterian? No we call it Jovian. Why? Because it is the word in the > dictionary, from Jove, btw, the "poetic" form of Jupiter. That's how > adjectives can be ... For parallel logic, you can't help but trip > over "Tellurian". > > I think you would find that the ancients had no reasonable > vocabulary to describe adjectives for the Earth as a planet because > regardless of what shape they thought it had, it was still the the > point of reference for the Universe, and was a different animal from > the planets they named. That is why terra means dirt in Italian and > Portuguese today. > > At best it would probably have more to > do with the concept of "the world" Mundus or whatever the Latin folk > have. The English word for that which has as one definition meaning > terrestrial is mundane. So if you want to add "MUNDANE" to the pot , > be my guest. And Earth Meteorites seems fine too :) > > You might take a look at this which I just found, and I was happy to > see the sci-fi comment by whoever wrote the current version: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexicography_of_Earth > > Best wishes, > Doug > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Altmann > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 9:12 am > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > > > Hiho Doug, > >> the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of >> some >> authors these days rather. > > Cicero: "ille globus quae terra dicitur.." > That ball, we call Earth. > > In principle "tellus" and "terra" are synonyms, > but "tellus" is more poetic, means more the goddess, the Earth as > center of > the world, in opposite to a celestial body; > > while "terra" means more the physical matter, the Earth as whole > physical > entity (in fact as planet, as celestial body, if they wouldn't have > had a > geocentric system)and also as one of the elements (water, fire..). > > Although for the elements only, there for was also "solum", means also > earth, used, > especially in opposite to the element water - see also today "solid". > =0 > AAnd additionally in the meaning of "land" "ground", "bottom". > > Finally there is still "humus" for earth. > That means earth in the sense of the hierarchic system of the spheres, > where the sphere of the element earth was in the center of the > universe, > (below the sphere of water, below the sphere of air...). > So it means the lowest, the inmost. (humble, humiliate ect.). > > "Tellurem pro terra posuit, quum tellurem deam dicamus, terram > elementum." > Maurus Servius Honoratus (a grammarian around AD 420) > > > Uh my Latin... well he says, fort he goddess "tellus", fort he element > "terra". > > Hmmm I would say, from the Roman ancient world until the modern times, > "terra" was more in use to denominate Earth as planet. (Also because > of the > Christian tradition, as "terra" is used in the Latin bible. See also > Augustinus). > > So perhaps we should stay with Terra? > > The adjective to Terra in Latin would be "terrenus". > So probably "Terran meteorite" would be correct. > > Exist also Latin "terrestris", but that means rather "located on > Earth, part > of the Earth", > so we could leave "terrestrial" for pseudo-meteorites. > > (btw. Mars, Martis --> Martian. (Martinus, says Martin, the Martian). > Mercur, Mercuris ---> Mercurian. Venus, Veneris ---> Venerian. > (cause I > read somewhere Venusian) Hmm the Doug "Dawn"-space probe is on the > way to > Vesta. Vestalian meteorites sounds a little bit....) > > > Uuuuuuh, a posting like from one of those class mates from th > e 1st row, > you never wanted to be friend with...(Don't know the right > expression. Geek? > Swot?..) > > Have a nice weekend! > Martin > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Mexicodoug > Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Juni 2009 09:34 > An: jgrossman at usgs.gov; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > Dr. Grossman wrote: > > "I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or > perhaps a terran meteorite." > > Hi Jeff, > > Definitely those are viable options, though I think this subject would > spark more debate than Pluto, Plutonian and Plutonic in these extended > circles if it ever had a type specimen. > > I think the name "TELLURIAN", the adjective (From TELLUS[Earth]) might > be another option, and perhaps more harmonic. > > Given the confusion and stigma with "terrestrial" in meteoritics > frequently being used to describe meteorwrongs, I think this third > choice could be considered on equal footing without having the > baggage. > Do I recall many scientists objecting for example to the useage of > "plutonic" as an adjective for Plutoness? > > Utilizing Mars as an example and considering the name of the planet > "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some authors these days > rather than "Terra Mater", the Roman goddess. As for Terran, it sounds > a bit far fetched to me, but hey... > For meteorite collectors who will no do > ubt be the first to collect > these so far legendary things, it seems our examples: > > martian meteorite (martian for short) > lunar meteorite (lunar for short, ocassionally the throat-twisting > lunaite) > ...why not: > tellurian meteorite (tellurian for short) > > Tellus, the equivalent Roman Earth goddess as Terra Mater, which > further rounds out the Earth-panteon of Roman possibilities, seems > almost a natural option > and probably just slipped your list. > > I didn't mention tellurite since there is already a mineral named this > with a cool blue subadamantine sheen...chemists (who as we know > generally don't get no respect from geologists) that discovered the > metallic element opted for Tellurium to name it after Earth, of > course, > for similar considerations we have now, and probably too avoid > confusion with terrariums, those fish tanks filled with dirt. > Ironically, Earth's crust is astonishingly poor in this element, vs. > meteorites and the cosmos in general. Well, they were chemists after > all. So "Terran meteorite" might have an edge here is you like to say > Terraite three times fast. (If someone likes tongue-twisters, how > about, five times fast, "Terr's Tertiary temper terrified Terry the > teary Terran from Tetroe." got to roll the rr's ad pronounce it > Tee-troe. > > Anway, tellurian and terran sounds like great candidates to me. > Considering the hard sound of Terran, which sounds a lot like "dirt" > (real dumb joke alert) and might give us customs problems when we get > our space faring > passports or ship meteorites around the Solar system, > not to mention hurt meteorite dealers' sales... > > In any case, I'll wait for the first guy who breaks the myth and > recovers material for science to Tellus what to call it. (oops, never > hear the end of that one) > > Hoping to escape this heat and join the Telluridian Festivarians for > the Solstice, > Doug > (chemist) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Grossman > Sent: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:12 am > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > > I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or > perhaps a terran meteorite. > > jeff > > Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote: >> We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the >> Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. >> These we know where they come from. >> >> Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite >> hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon >> or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, >> or maybe Earthite? >> Just contemplating my navel here. >> Pete >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 6 19:16:08 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:16:08 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop><4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov><8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com><009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1F55EE12433F4C039B35A72B265B8EAA@ATARIENGINE2> Let me get this straight. We have (in no particular order of favoritism): Terrestrial meteorite, Tellurite, Terrenite, Terranite, Earthite, and possibly Gaiaite or Geoite. So, when a "meteor" of Earth origin is travelling toward becoming a "meteorite" of whatever designation, is it referred to as: a Terrestroid? an Earthoid? A Telluroid? A Terranoid? Or possibly a Gaiaoid or Geooid? All these Earthican languages, and this is the best we can do? Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" To: Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? > Hiho Mr. Martindale, (Isn't Miss Martindale a Tellurian? UK humor) > > The adjective already in the language defined in the more limited > manner we want is TERRENE. So throw out TERRAN and use TERRENE and I'm > fine, are you? > > --------------------------------- > > I didn't think so... all right...mmmm, I'll plug and grind away at > some of your reply which seemed to unnecessarily and possibly > incorrectly to look to Latin to make up words and take the ancients > out of context ... > > Back to reality, and plain English. (The Italians can debate whether > Terran works for them, but that seems like a silly argument for > English. "Terran" is not a generally accepted English word that evokes > sci-fi to meant it was not my intent to make up new words when > sufficient words already exist in plain English - that was the real > reason I called it a "sci-fi" word. I do not feel it is in a mere > mortal's place to modify the dictionary any more than a fire hydrant. > > TERRESTRIAL is the word, if we didn't happen to live here and already > have plenty of uses for it w/r to meteorites and geology IMO - it > seems you are sympathetic to the idea that "terrestrial" has > meteorwrong, pseudometeorite, etc. as unwanted confusion and baggage. > Besides since all the Inner planets are terrestrial, they are > terrestrial meteorites if you want to get picky, vs. cometary, etc. > Then weathering, terrestrialization ... Just way too much confusion. > > So I > think TERRENE and TELLURIAN (consistently defined as from earth > without inventing a new word) are both fine and not exclusive (of > course not, they are words common man has every right to use) any more > than calling something a Martian meteorite or a Mars meteorite - where > both descriptors are OK. If you want to look for obscure or invented > words, TERRAN is great, too, I suppose, as long as you find one first > and publish the precedent. Else, I don't agree. > > Quoting Cicero (unless you mean the guy from Sky & Tel), won't get you > any points unless you do a dissertation on what was going on in > people's minds back then! Earth was an element, comparable to air and > water, not a planet in a modern sense. > > How do I know Cicero wasn't being sarcastic? Your liberty with the > translation of the word dicitur, you try to pass it with authority(!) > as nominative and tending to exclusive...hmmm.... perhaps is just > means "say", as in this land for which we say dirt? I don't see it > very important either way as there is no need to be dweebish (the word > you were looking for) by taking quotes out of context of a near dead > though beautiful language since OE and Webster's dictionaries have all > we need in boldface. > > In German, Terran might be the right word - no problem! As for the > comments about the "poetic negative" for tellurian, you totally lost > me there and let me add gender as a factor, is Terran more > macho and Tellurian more effeminate and is that you basis - well, > earth out to be effeminate as it is named after a woman...like Venus. > Mars is masculine sure... I already gave you the support of the > periodic chart of the elements tellurium ("from the earth"), which > should be enough to earn a place. It may be that some Germans think > the entire English Language sounds poetic compared to theirs! When you > discuss by some weird logic I don't follow that this poetic stuff > extends to it being the goddess as opposed to the planet, I only wish > Mr. Peabody were here to send you to have a face to face with the > Legions in the WayBack Machine, the you could see that the planets got > their names from Gods that represented them, like Jupiter, Mars, > Mercury and Venus. Do we call something Jupiteran or Jupiterian? No we > call it Jovian. Why? Because it is the word in the dictionary, from > Jove, btw, the "poetic" form of Jupiter. That's how adjectives can be > ... For parallel logic, you can't help but trip over "Tellurian". > > I think you would find that the ancients had no reasonable vocabulary > to describe adjectives for the Earth as a planet because regardless of > what shape they thought it had, it was still the the point of > reference for the Universe, and was a different animal from the > planets they named. That is why terra means dirt in Italian and > Portuguese today. > > At best it would probably have more to > do with the concept of "the world" Mundus or whatever the Latin folk > have. The English word for that which has as one definition meaning > terrestrial is mundane. So if you want to add "MUNDANE" to the pot , > be my guest. And Earth Meteorites seems fine too :) > > You might take a look at this which I just found, and I was happy to > see the sci-fi comment by whoever wrote the current version: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexicography_of_Earth > > Best wishes, > Doug > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Altmann > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 9:12 am > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > > > Hiho Doug, > >>the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of >>some >>authors these days rather. > > Cicero: "ille globus quae terra dicitur.." > That ball, we call Earth. > > In principle "tellus" and "terra" are synonyms, > but "tellus" is more poetic, means more the goddess, the Earth as > center of > the world, in opposite to a celestial body; > > while "terra" means more the physical matter, the Earth as whole > physical > entity (in fact as planet, as celestial body, if they wouldn't have > had a > geocentric system)and also as one of the elements (water, fire..). > > Although for the elements only, there for was also "solum", means also > earth, used, > especially in opposite to the element water - see also today "solid". > =0 > AAnd additionally in the meaning of "land" "ground", "bottom". > > Finally there is still "humus" for earth. > That means earth in the sense of the hierarchic system of the spheres, > where the sphere of the element earth was in the center of the > universe, > (below the sphere of water, below the sphere of air...). > So it means the lowest, the inmost. (humble, humiliate ect.). > > "Tellurem pro terra posuit, quum tellurem deam dicamus, terram > elementum." > Maurus Servius Honoratus (a grammarian around AD 420) > > > Uh my Latin... well he says, fort he goddess "tellus", fort he element > "terra". > > Hmmm I would say, from the Roman ancient world until the modern times, > "terra" was more in use to denominate Earth as planet. (Also because > of the > Christian tradition, as "terra" is used in the Latin bible. See also > Augustinus). > > So perhaps we should stay with Terra? > > The adjective to Terra in Latin would be "terrenus". > So probably "Terran meteorite" would be correct. > > Exist also Latin "terrestris", but that means rather "located on > Earth, part > of the Earth", > so we could leave "terrestrial" for pseudo-meteorites. > > (btw. Mars, Martis --> Martian. (Martinus, says Martin, the Martian). > Mercur, Mercuris ---> Mercurian. Venus, Veneris ---> Venerian. (cause > I > read somewhere Venusian) Hmm the Doug "Dawn"-space probe is on the way > to > Vesta. Vestalian meteorites sounds a little bit....) > > > Uuuuuuh, a posting like from one of those class mates from th > e 1st row, > you never wanted to be friend with...(Don't know the right expression. > Geek? > Swot?..) > > Have a nice weekend! > Martin > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Mexicodoug > Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Juni 2009 09:34 > An: jgrossman at usgs.gov; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > Dr. Grossman wrote: > > "I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or > perhaps a terran meteorite." > > Hi Jeff, > > Definitely those are viable options, though I think this subject would > spark more debate than Pluto, Plutonian and Plutonic in these extended > circles if it ever had a type specimen. > > I think the name "TELLURIAN", the adjective (From TELLUS[Earth]) might > be another option, and perhaps more harmonic. > > Given the confusion and stigma with "terrestrial" in meteoritics > frequently being used to describe meteorwrongs, I think this third > choice could be considered on equal footing without having the > baggage. > Do I recall many scientists objecting for example to the useage of > "plutonic" as an adjective for Plutoness? > > Utilizing Mars as an example and considering the name of the planet > "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some authors these days > rather than "Terra Mater", the Roman goddess. As for Terran, it sounds > a bit far fetched to me, but hey... > For meteorite collectors who will no do > ubt be the first to collect > these so far legendary things, it seems our examples: > > martian meteorite (martian for short) > lunar meteorite (lunar for short, ocassionally the throat-twisting > lunaite) > ...why not: > tellurian meteorite (tellurian for short) > > Tellus, the equivalent Roman Earth goddess as Terra Mater, which > further rounds out the Earth-panteon of Roman possibilities, seems > almost a natural option > and probably just slipped your list. > > I didn't mention tellurite since there is already a mineral named this > with a cool blue subadamantine sheen...chemists (who as we know > generally don't get no respect from geologists) that discovered the > metallic element opted for Tellurium to name it after Earth, of > course, > for similar considerations we have now, and probably too avoid > confusion with terrariums, those fish tanks filled with dirt. > Ironically, Earth's crust is astonishingly poor in this element, vs. > meteorites and the cosmos in general. Well, they were chemists after > all. So "Terran meteorite" might have an edge here is you like to say > Terraite three times fast. (If someone likes tongue-twisters, how > about, five times fast, "Terr's Tertiary temper terrified Terry the > teary Terran from Tetroe." got to roll the rr's ad pronounce it > Tee-troe. > > Anway, tellurian and terran sounds like great candidates to me. > Considering the hard sound of Terran, which sounds a lot like "dirt" > (real dumb joke alert) and might give us customs problems when we get > our space faring > passports or ship meteorites around the Solar system, > not to mention hurt meteorite dealers' sales... > > In any case, I'll wait for the first guy who breaks the myth and > recovers material for science to Tellus what to call it. (oops, never > hear the end of that one) > > Hoping to escape this heat and join the Telluridian Festivarians for > the Solstice, > Doug > (chemist) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Grossman > Sent: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:12 am > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > > I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or > perhaps a terran meteorite. > jeff > Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote: >> We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the Lunar meteorite >> and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. These we know where they >> come from. Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite >> hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon or Mars? >> What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, or maybe Earthite? >> Just contemplating my navel here. Pete >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey > fax: (703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jun 6 20:24:56 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:24:56 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <1F55EE12433F4C039B35A72B265B8EAA@ATARIENGINE2> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop><4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov><8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com><009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> <1F55EE12433F4C039B35A72B265B8EAA@ATARIENGINE2> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:16:08 -0500, you wrote: >We have (in no particular order of >favoritism): Terrestrial meteorite, >Tellurite, Terrenite, Terranite, Earthite, >and possibly Gaiaite or Geoite. > FlyingSpaghettiMonster help us if the first confirmed Earth-originating meteorite lands in Colorado. The Telluride Tellurite? From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jun 6 20:28:29 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:28:29 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <1F55EE12433F4C039B35A72B265B8EAA@ATARIENGINE2> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop><4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov><8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com><009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> <1F55EE12433F4C039B35A72B265B8EAA@ATARIENGINE2> Message-ID: Besides, everybody knows that they should be called "icaruites". From pshugar at clearwire.net Sat Jun 6 19:49:43 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar@clearwire.net) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:49:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Comment re A Question Message-ID: <3D0CAD29C37A4AC993D253CDEC1ADE01@laptop> I am so sorry that I ever asked my question. I am still learning about these meteorites and all the terminology that goes with the subject. I shall crawl back into my little hole and never again even peek at the list again. The other question re the survivability of an earth "bug" in a Mars environment was just ignored.. Go figure All I wanted to do was learn something. Next there will be a war abrewing over this inane thread. Pete From gmhupe at htn.net Sat Jun 6 21:27:12 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:27:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Martian, NWA 5789 Auctions Ending Sunday - AD Message-ID: <8C796DE0369B494EA5BA539B04DEED7A@Gregor> Dear List Members, The newest Martian meteorite, NWA 5789, an Anomalous (Provisional, with further studies under way), has been announced and confirmed by acquiring parties who were very fortunate to be a part of this amazing Martian meteorite discovery. I first announced this different planetary meteorite last week, with confirmation from the majority mass holders, Martian Altman (and Stefan Ralew) (congratulations, guys!!). As Martin pointed out, very little material is available from the limited Total Known Weight of just 49 grams. From the samples I provided to two different institutions for the first confirmations of this new find, and then the further completing type sample provided by Stefan and Martin, there is almost nothing available to collectors. I have just seven specimens on eBay that will end tomorrow (Sunday, June 7th at about 2:00 PM Florida time!). All of these were started at just 99 cents each, have bids and have many eBay, "Watchers", per auction. Those who are most interested are watching and will be bidding up to the end of these auctions! This may be your only chance to acquire a sample of this newest of Martian meteorites, paired to nothing before!! Click here to see all (perhaps the 'only' available) seven NWA 5789 auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault "Thank You" for bidding and, Good Luck! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat Jun 6 22:40:24 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:40:24 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] SALE : Meteorites, Impactites, Books, and UNWA. Message-ID: Hi Listees! I have added three new collectible books to my online store today - including two UK meteorite books (first UK editions), and a fascinating book by Lincoln Lapaz (founder of the Univ. of New Mexico's Institute of Meteoritics) "Space Nomads". Several impactites available that are not listed on my website yet. These come from my personal collection. I have decided to downsize my impactites and focus on meteorites - so I am liquidating these specimens to rash some cash for more meteorites. Here is a list of what's available : Decaturville Impact Structure (Missouri) - 136gr endcut of monomict impact breccia Ries Crater (Germany) - 62gr "flaedle" impact glass bomb Rochechouart Crater (France) - 108gr slice of pseudotachylite Steinheim Crater (Germany) - small shattercone Sudbury Impact Basin (Canada) - 60gr highly-polished slice of Wells Creek Crater (Tennessee) - 194gr dolomitic shatter cone sample Black Onaping suevite (ON HOLD) Wanapitei Lake (Sudbury) - 110gr endcut of suevite fallback breccia (ON HOLD) Sudbury Impact Basin (Canada) - big 682 grams shatter cone. (ON HOLD) For photos and prices, contact me offlist at mike at galactic-stone.com Lastly, I have slashed prices on some items in my store - including UNWA bulk lots, single UNWA display specimens, calcite spheres and other items. The sale prices on these items are noted in the listings - www.galactic-stone.com Don't forget - all list members get a 20% discount on everything in my store, including sale items! Use coupon code "metlist" at checkout to get the discount - type the coupon code exactly as spelled here - it is case sensitive. Thanks for looking and clear skies! MikeG www.galactic-stone.com ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sat Jun 6 23:38:37 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 05:38:37 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop><4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov><8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com><009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000b01c9e721$71afe660$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hiho, >How do I know Cicero wasn't being sarcastic? Cause it's from his "Somnium Scipionis", one of the most prevalent cosmologic writings. There he describes the Earth as a globe, with poles, climes, antipodes on the opposed hemispheres...similar as we do it today, hence the same concept, what we have today of planet Earth (with the difference, that our Earth isn't in the middle of the universe) - and that globe he calls "terra" The other quote of Severius was from his commentary to Virgil's Aeneid. (which has here and there some relations to Scipio's Dream). Well, let's look simply in the most popular astronomy book of the 13th - 16th century. The Carl Sagan of these times was John of Hollywood, (Sacrobosco, ca. 1195 - 1256 AD). He wrote a meagre and short excerpt from Ptolemaeus' Megale Syntaxis, called "Tractatus de Sphaera". That was one of the most copied books of all of the Middle Ages, each student, passing the second course of studies, had to learn it by rote. Hence was the standard schoolbook for astronomy for several centuries. There he explains the Earth as globe (like on your desk), a ball with its poles, equator, tropics, arctic circles ect. gives diameter and circumference.. And that physical object, that ball, the Earth is called continuously throughout that booklet "terra". So without needing any semantics or philosophy... ...one could come to an opinion... ...that simply because all called that ball they were sitting on "terra", that this would be a good name for planet Earth. (I'm sure you'll find the complete text of the Sphaera several times on internet). >to describe adjectives for the Earth as a planet because regardless of >what shape they thought it had, it was still the the point of reference Funny enough, you'll find in Sacrobosco's sphere, that the size of the Earth compared to heaven's is a point... Even more funny, if the Earth was unlike the planets, and the ultimate ground, source ect. how easily the emperors from the 8th. century on could juggle with that Earth-ball in their hands on the pictures.. (and it's the Earth, as seen by the division by the bands around into 3 parts - the Roman emperors had still a naked ball, the sphere of the heavens, the universe in their hands). > I think you would find that the ancients had no reasonable vocabulary.. > ...At best it would probably have more to do with the concept of "the > world" Mundus Don't think so, we don't have to make the Ancients more stupid as they never were... Take the stereographic projection. You can't project the circles in the sky on a lump of dirt, a point, or a philosophic-theological doghouse. You need a geometrical concept of your world, earth, planet call it like you want, of a ball. A hand-tight problem, they solved. Without disturbing goddesses and stuff. >of your reply which seemed to unnecessarily ..which was indicated by my last remark in the mail btw. That one is most probably too. Well for some is interesting to know, where their stones stem from, and for others, where their words stem from, for others, where the ideas and concepts stem from, ...and for most nothing of that matters... And personally, I guess, for me an Earth meteorite wouldn't be that fascinating. A stone hurled in space, flying around a few millions of years... ...for me my meteorites shall stem from there, where I never will be able to access - from other celestial bodies! ..sicut in cealo, et in terra.... Amen Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Mexicodoug Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Juni 2009 00:40 An: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? Hiho Mr. Martindale, (Isn't Miss Martindale a Tellurian? UK humor) The adjective already in the language defined in the more limited manner we want is TERRENE. So throw out TERRAN and use TERRENE and I'm fine, are you? --------------------------------- I didn't think so... all right...mmmm, I'll plug and grind away at some of your reply which seemed to unnecessarily and possibly incorrectly to look to Latin to make up words and take the ancients out of context ... Back to reality, and plain English. (The Italians can debate whether Terran works for them, but that seems like a silly argument for English. "Terran" is not a generally accepted English word that evokes sci-fi to meant it was not my intent to make up new words when sufficient words already exist in plain English - that was the real reason I called it a "sci-fi" word. I do not feel it is in a mere mortal's place to modify the dictionary any more than a fire hydrant. TERRESTRIAL is the word, if we didn't happen to live here and already have plenty of uses for it w/r to meteorites and geology IMO - it seems you are sympathetic to the idea that "terrestrial" has meteorwrong, pseudometeorite, etc. as unwanted confusion and baggage. Besides since all the Inner planets are terrestrial, they are terrestrial meteorites if you want to get picky, vs. cometary, etc. Then weathering, terrestrialization ... Just way too much confusion. So I think TERRENE and TELLURIAN (consistently defined as from earth without inventing a new word) are both fine and not exclusive (of course not, they are words common man has every right to use) any more than calling something a Martian meteorite or a Mars meteorite - where both descriptors are OK. If you want to look for obscure or invented words, TERRAN is great, too, I suppose, as long as you find one first and publish the precedent. Else, I don't agree. Quoting Cicero (unless you mean the guy from Sky & Tel), won't get you any points unless you do a dissertation on what was going on in people's minds back then! Earth was an element, comparable to air and water, not a planet in a modern sense. How do I know Cicero wasn't being sarcastic? Your liberty with the translation of the word dicitur, you try to pass it with authority(!) as nominative and tending to exclusive...hmmm.... perhaps is just means "say", as in this land for which we say dirt? I don't see it very important either way as there is no need to be dweebish (the word you were looking for) by taking quotes out of context of a near dead though beautiful language since OE and Webster's dictionaries have all we need in boldface. In German, Terran might be the right word - no problem! As for the comments about the "poetic negative" for tellurian, you totally lost me there and let me add gender as a factor, is Terran more macho and Tellurian more effeminate and is that you basis - well, earth out to be effeminate as it is named after a woman...like Venus. Mars is masculine sure... I already gave you the support of the periodic chart of the elements tellurium ("from the earth"), which should be enough to earn a place. It may be that some Germans think the entire English Language sounds poetic compared to theirs! When you discuss by some weird logic I don't follow that this poetic stuff extends to it being the goddess as opposed to the planet, I only wish Mr. Peabody were here to send you to have a face to face with the Legions in the WayBack Machine, the you could see that the planets got their names from Gods that represented them, like Jupiter, Mars, Mercury and Venus. Do we call something Jupiteran or Jupiterian? No we call it Jovian. Why? Because it is the word in the dictionary, from Jove, btw, the "poetic" form of Jupiter. That's how adjectives can be ... For parallel logic, you can't help but trip over "Tellurian". I think you would find that the ancients had no reasonable vocabulary to describe adjectives for the Earth as a planet because regardless of what shape they thought it had, it was still the the point of reference for the Universe, and was a different animal from the planets they named. That is why terra means dirt in Italian and Portuguese today. At best it would probably have more to do with the concept of "the world" Mundus or whatever the Latin folk have. The English word for that which has as one definition meaning terrestrial is mundane. So if you want to add "MUNDANE" to the pot , be my guest. And Earth Meteorites seems fine too :) You might take a look at this which I just found, and I was happy to see the sci-fi comment by whoever wrote the current version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexicography_of_Earth Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Martin Altmann To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 9:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? Hiho Doug, >the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some >authors these days rather. Cicero: "ille globus quae terra dicitur.." That ball, we call Earth. In principle "tellus" and "terra" are synonyms, but "tellus" is more poetic, means more the goddess, the Earth as center of the world, in opposite to a celestial body; while "terra" means more the physical matter, the Earth as whole physical entity (in fact as planet, as celestial body, if they wouldn't have had a geocentric system)and also as one of the elements (water, fire..). Although for the elements only, there for was also "solum", means also earth, used, especially in opposite to the element water - see also today "solid". =0 AAnd additionally in the meaning of "land" "ground", "bottom". Finally there is still "humus" for earth. That means earth in the sense of the hierarchic system of the spheres, where the sphere of the element earth was in the center of the universe, (below the sphere of water, below the sphere of air...). So it means the lowest, the inmost. (humble, humiliate ect.). "Tellurem pro terra posuit, quum tellurem deam dicamus, terram elementum." Maurus Servius Honoratus (a grammarian around AD 420) Uh my Latin... well he says, fort he goddess "tellus", fort he element "terra". Hmmm I would say, from the Roman ancient world until the modern times, "terra" was more in use to denominate Earth as planet. (Also because of the Christian tradition, as "terra" is used in the Latin bible. See also Augustinus). So perhaps we should stay with Terra? The adjective to Terra in Latin would be "terrenus". So probably "Terran meteorite" would be correct. Exist also Latin "terrestris", but that means rather "located on Earth, part of the Earth", so we could leave "terrestrial" for pseudo-meteorites. (btw. Mars, Martis --> Martian. (Martinus, says Martin, the Martian). Mercur, Mercuris ---> Mercurian. Venus, Veneris ---> Venerian. (cause I read somewhere Venusian) Hmm the Doug "Dawn"-space probe is on the way to Vesta. Vestalian meteorites sounds a little bit....) Uuuuuuh, a posting like from one of those class mates from th e 1st row, you never wanted to be friend with...(Don't know the right expression. Geek? Swot?..) Have a nice weekend! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Mexicodoug Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Juni 2009 09:34 An: jgrossman at usgs.gov; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? Dr. Grossman wrote: "I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite." Hi Jeff, Definitely those are viable options, though I think this subject would spark more debate than Pluto, Plutonian and Plutonic in these extended circles if it ever had a type specimen. I think the name "TELLURIAN", the adjective (From TELLUS[Earth]) might be another option, and perhaps more harmonic. Given the confusion and stigma with "terrestrial" in meteoritics frequently being used to describe meteorwrongs, I think this third choice could be considered on equal footing without having the baggage. Do I recall many scientists objecting for example to the useage of "plutonic" as an adjective for Plutoness? Utilizing Mars as an example and considering the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some authors these days rather than "Terra Mater", the Roman goddess. As for Terran, it sounds a bit far fetched to me, but hey... For meteorite collectors who will no do ubt be the first to collect these so far legendary things, it seems our examples: martian meteorite (martian for short) lunar meteorite (lunar for short, ocassionally the throat-twisting lunaite) ...why not: tellurian meteorite (tellurian for short) Tellus, the equivalent Roman Earth goddess as Terra Mater, which further rounds out the Earth-panteon of Roman possibilities, seems almost a natural option and probably just slipped your list. I didn't mention tellurite since there is already a mineral named this with a cool blue subadamantine sheen...chemists (who as we know generally don't get no respect from geologists) that discovered the metallic element opted for Tellurium to name it after Earth, of course, for similar considerations we have now, and probably too avoid confusion with terrariums, those fish tanks filled with dirt. Ironically, Earth's crust is astonishingly poor in this element, vs. meteorites and the cosmos in general. Well, they were chemists after all. So "Terran meteorite" might have an edge here is you like to say Terraite three times fast. (If someone likes tongue-twisters, how about, five times fast, "Terr's Tertiary temper terrified Terry the teary Terran from Tetroe." got to roll the rr's ad pronounce it Tee-troe. Anway, tellurian and terran sounds like great candidates to me. Considering the hard sound of Terran, which sounds a lot like "dirt" (real dumb joke alert) and might give us customs problems when we get our space faring passports or ship meteorites around the Solar system, not to mention hurt meteorite dealers' sales... In any case, I'll wait for the first guy who breaks the myth and recovers material for science to Tellus what to call it. (oops, never hear the end of that one) Hoping to escape this heat and join the Telluridian Festivarians for the Solstice, Doug (chemist) -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Grossman Sent: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite.? ? jeff? ? Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote:? > We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the? > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite.? > These we know where they come from.? >? > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite? > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon? > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid,? > or maybe Earthite?? > Just contemplating my navel here.? > Pete? >? > ______________________________________________? > http://www.meteoritecentral.com? > Meteorite-list mailing list? > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? >? ? -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184? US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383? 954 National Center? Reston, VA 20192, USA? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rhartman04 at earthlink.net Sun Jun 7 03:00:45 2009 From: rhartman04 at earthlink.net (R N Hartman) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:00:45 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer References: <294076.74712.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001d01c9e73d$ae8e9150$6401a8c0@DBZC5NB1> My notes from Dr. Frederick D. Leonard's Meteoritics 118 class which I took at UCLA (I believe in1962) say: A meteorite is any object of sub-planetary mass which has landed on Earth, or some other astronomical body, and still retains its original cosmic characteristics. (Little did he know that someday we would photograph meteorites residing on the surface of Mars!) Ron Hartman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: "Pete Shugar at clearwire.net" ; "metlist" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer > > Pete sometime let me tell you about the First Church of the Navelites.. > but to your question > > They would be called meteorites until identified as originating from the > Earth--then the debate is opened up again. > > Recently someone at NASA or in the IAU stated the new definition of > meteorite includes any rocky object falling onto the surface of any planet > should be regarded as a meteorite (my translation) > > I recently read a calculation of the number of Earth originating rocks > gone to meteorites on the moon and on Mars and it was a fairly high number > within the realistic realm of being identified as such. > > A further subset of missing nomenclature is what to call returning non > tektite ejecta that may have orbited a while and get returned much later. > The Reis impactor is a candidate for having been able to eject rocks into > orbit. As I've mentioned it before, it hurled some multi-ton limestone > boulders over 60 miles up a mountain side in Austria. > > A meteorite could not eject material into space from earth but an asteroid > sized impactor most certainly has in the past. That is the physics don't > prohibit it. > > Elton > --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Pete Shugar at clearwire.net > wrote: > >> From: Pete Shugar at clearwire.net >> Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 12:02 AM >> We have the Martian type meteorite, >> and we have the >> Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. >> These we know where they come from. >> >> Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite >> hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon >> or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, >> or maybe Earthite? >> Just contemplating my navel here. >> Pete >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at meteoritenhaus.de Sun Jun 7 08:17:42 2009 From: info at meteoritenhaus.de (Andreas Gren) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 14:17:42 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD 12kg NWA Chondrite Message-ID: Hello List, I would like to offer a real huge NWA Chondrite, the Meteorite is unclassified. The weight is 12.1 kg and the dimensions are 20 x 20 x 17 cm. One corner is showing a 12mm radial pyroxene Chondrule, please see last picture. Price is 2100$ Shipping is:? USA 80$ ;?? ?Europe 40$? ; ?Germany 0$; Thanks for looking Best Greetings Andi www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_2.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_3.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_4.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_5.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_6.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_7.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_8.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_9.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_10.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/Chondrule1.jpg ------------------------------------------------- Meteoritenhaus info at meteoritenhaus.de Inhaber Andreas Gren Stapelfelder Str. 58 22143 Hamburg Germany phone 0049(0)40-67593737 Umsatzsteuer-Identifikations-Nummer: folgt Steuernummer:08/453/07598 ------------------------------------------------- From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sun Jun 7 09:24:58 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 15:24:58 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Martian, NWA 5789 Auctions Ending Sunday - AD In-Reply-To: <8C796DE0369B494EA5BA539B04DEED7A@Gregor> References: <8C796DE0369B494EA5BA539B04DEED7A@Gregor> Message-ID: <001001c9e773$5baa9110$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hi Greg, may we add for the list members some more information. Dirk Hohmann (thank you) brought just this fine and easy to read article by Jeffrey Taylor to our attention, which describes the properties, formation and importance of the Yamato 980459 very well. http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Dec06/Y-980459.html That could be quite illustrative for the collectors and could help to understand, why all are so excited about NWA 5789 and that it isn't just another shergottite. because there are already some indications, that NWA 5789 with its similarities to Yamato 980459 could be even more primitive! Indeed, several institutes showed interest to acquire material, so at present, we can't foresee yet, whether or how much something will be later left, to make it publically available again. Therefore I'd say, for those, who really want to be sure to get a sample of this amazing stuff, it is indicated to take advantage from Greg's offer on ebay. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Hupe Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Juni 2009 03:27 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] New Martian, NWA 5789 Auctions Ending Sunday - AD Dear List Members, The newest Martian meteorite, NWA 5789, an Anomalous (Provisional, with further studies under way), has been announced and confirmed by acquiring parties who were very fortunate to be a part of this amazing Martian meteorite discovery. I first announced this different planetary meteorite last week, with confirmation from the majority mass holders, Martian Altman (and Stefan Ralew) (congratulations, guys!!). As Martin pointed out, very little material is available from the limited Total Known Weight of just 49 grams. From the samples I provided to two different institutions for the first confirmations of this new find, and then the further completing type sample provided by Stefan and Martin, there is almost nothing available to collectors. I have just seven specimens on eBay that will end tomorrow (Sunday, June 7th at about 2:00 PM Florida time!). All of these were started at just 99 cents each, have bids and have many eBay, "Watchers", per auction. Those who are most interested are watching and will be bidding up to the end of these auctions! This may be your only chance to acquire a sample of this newest of Martian meteorites, paired to nothing before!! Click here to see all (perhaps the 'only' available) seven NWA 5789 auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault "Thank You" for bidding and, Good Luck! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 10:35:06 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:35:06 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Martian, NWA 5789 Auctions Ending Sunday - AD In-Reply-To: <001001c9e773$5baa9110$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <8C796DE0369B494EA5BA539B04DEED7A@Gregor> <001001c9e773$5baa9110$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Hi Folks, Just an observation about the new NWA 5789 - In aesthetic terms, the matrix reminds me of terrestrial olivine bombs thrown out by volcanoes. I wonder if this spectacular meteorite has been through a similar process on Mars? The terrestrial versions are more olivine heavy, but the resemblance is there I think. Best regards, MikeG On 6/7/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > Hi Greg, > > may we add for the list members some more information. > Dirk Hohmann (thank you) brought just this fine and easy to read article by > Jeffrey Taylor to our attention, > which describes the properties, formation and importance of the Yamato > 980459 very well. > > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Dec06/Y-980459.html > > That could be quite illustrative for the collectors and could help to > understand, why all are so excited about NWA 5789 and that it isn't just > another shergottite. > > because there are already some indications, that NWA 5789 with its > similarities to Yamato 980459 could be even more primitive! > > > Indeed, several institutes showed interest to acquire material, > so at present, we can't foresee yet, whether or how much something will be > later left, > to make it publically available again. > > Therefore I'd say, for those, who really want to be sure to get a sample of > this amazing stuff, it is indicated to take advantage from Greg's offer on > ebay. > > Best! > Martin > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg > Hupe > Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Juni 2009 03:27 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] New Martian, NWA 5789 Auctions Ending Sunday - AD > > Dear List Members, > > The newest Martian meteorite, NWA 5789, an Anomalous (Provisional, with > further studies under way), has been announced and confirmed by acquiring > parties who were very fortunate to be a part of this amazing Martian > meteorite discovery. I first announced this different planetary meteorite > last week, with confirmation from the majority mass holders, Martian Altman > (and Stefan Ralew) (congratulations, guys!!). > > As Martin pointed out, very little material is available from the limited > Total Known Weight of just 49 grams. From the samples I provided to two > different institutions for the first confirmations of this new find, and > then the further completing type sample provided by Stefan and Martin, there > > is almost nothing available to collectors. > > I have just seven specimens on eBay that will end tomorrow (Sunday, June 7th > > at about 2:00 PM Florida time!). All of these were started at just 99 cents > each, have bids and have many eBay, "Watchers", per auction. Those who are > most interested are watching and will be bidding up to the end of these > auctions! > > This may be your only chance to acquire a sample of this newest of Martian > meteorites, paired to nothing before!! > > Click here to see all (perhaps the 'only' available) seven NWA 5789 > auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > "Thank You" for bidding and, Good Luck! > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From GeoZay at aol.com Sun Jun 7 11:28:24 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 11:28:24 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Sikhote/Campo regmaglypt size differences Message-ID: I was wondering if anyone know why the regmaglypts (thumbprints) for Sikhote-alins seem to be smaller than those found on Campo del Cielos? Perhaps velocity, entry size, atmospheric duration exposure, structure, something else? Any educated guesses? Any non-educated guesses? :O) GeoZay **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377042x1201454362/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From mexicodoug at aim.com Sun Jun 7 11:54:54 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 11:54:54 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sikhote/Campo regmaglypt size differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBB59F6F59EF7A-10F0-3C0A@WEBMAIL-DF11.sysops.aol.com> Hi Geo, Since regmaglypts are the result of airflow (and only when it travels relatively fast in sufficiently dense atmosphere), I would suggest that their sizes of regmaglypts are both proportional to the size of the piece when it is subject to the turbulence (requires piece to be moving fast) and possibly get smaller for pieces penetrating to the densest low atmosphere (Sikhote) where the turbulence is much greater. So, a smll piece penetrating far down at great speed, like a low altitude airburst coming off a large iron mass, will produce small, exquisite regmaglypts, while a higher bursting, larger pieces will produce larger regmaglpts. That said, don't be too sure that everything on the smaller Campos claimed to be a regmaglypt really is. If the piece is small, it's surface had been subjected to a proportionally greater amount of oxidation not to mention the smaller regs are probably long gone in many cases. Larger Sikhotes have larger regmaglypts if you've seen them... Best wishes Doug -----Original Message----- From: GeoZay at aol.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:28 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Sikhote/Campo regmaglypt size differences I was wondering if anyone know why the regmaglypts (thumbprints) for Sikhote-alins seem to be smaller than those found on Campo del Cielos? Perhaps velocity, entry size, atmospheric duration exposure, structure, something else? Any educated guesses? Any non-educated guesses? :O) GeoZay **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377042x1201454362/aol?redir= http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de Sun Jun 7 12:31:08 2009 From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Meteorite-Recon.com) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 18:31:08 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites in situ Message-ID: <1195869.159541244392268269.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Good evening everybody, Those of you dedicated to the search and recovery of meteorites from hot deserts might be interested in a little feature on some common characteristics of these finds. A number of in situ images are included: Part 1: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_1.htm Part 2: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_2.htm Thanks for your interest. Cheers Svend -- www.meteorite-recon.com From carothersdl at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 12:48:19 2009 From: carothersdl at gmail.com (dave carothers) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 12:48:19 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites in situ References: <1195869.159541244392268269.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Message-ID: Svend, As always, your web site is one of the best for outstanding photos and information relating to meteorites. Thanks for sharing. The pics are awesome. Regards, Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorite-Recon.com" To: Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:31 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites in situ > Good evening everybody, > > Those of you dedicated to the search and recovery of meteorites from hot > deserts might be interested in a little feature on some common > characteristics of these finds. A number of in situ images are included: > > Part 1: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_1.htm > > Part 2: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_2.htm > > Thanks for your interest. > > Cheers > > Svend > > -- > www.meteorite-recon.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sun Jun 7 15:07:46 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 12:07:46 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites in situ In-Reply-To: <1195869.159541244392268269.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> References: <1195869.159541244392268269.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Message-ID: <4A2C1002.4070306@meteoritesusa.com> Svend! Now that is cool! Great photos, and even better information. My favorite http://www.meteorite-recon.com/img_inventar/meteorite%20sand%20abrasion.jpg This photo is a great illustration. How many photos of this did you have to take to get that image? ;) AWESOME! Regards, Eric Meteorite-Recon.com wrote: > Good evening everybody, > > Those of you dedicated to the search and recovery of meteorites from hot deserts might be interested in a little feature on some common characteristics of these finds. A number of in situ images are included: > > Part 1: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_1.htm > > Part 2: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_2.htm > > Thanks for your interest. > > Cheers > > Svend > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Sun Jun 7 15:57:31 2009 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 12:57:31 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD- Witness Falls Ending Today Message-ID: <001d01c9e7aa$31998110$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Hello all- Several end today, more witnessed than not: Tatahouine, Kilabo, Sikhote, Saratov, Peekskill, Gao, Oum Dreyga Others with names, not numbers: Chinga, Camel Donga And a few with numbers http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnakhladog Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Sun Jun 7 16:26:01 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 21:26:01 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Find a falling star In-Reply-To: <001d01c9e7aa$31998110$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Message-ID: <20090607212601.T2ZKR.849809.root@web05-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi All, This was broadcast again recently...though those that didn't listen to it last time might like to hear it... I wonder why it was broadcast again? !!!! ;-) http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00l169w/Catch_a_Falling_Star/ Graham Ensor, UK From majbaermann at web.de Sun Jun 7 16:31:16 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:31:16 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites in situ References: <1195869.159541244392268269.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Message-ID: Hi Svend, always good to know someone like you outside in the deserts of our planet, recovering our beloved extraterrestrial monsters before they take a little dive into the Deep Sea of Eternal Sands (not to mention the Gateways of Patience ...). Thanks for sharing your adventures, my best, Matthias B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorite-Recon.com" To: Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 6:31 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites in situ > Good evening everybody, > > Those of you dedicated to the search and recovery of meteorites from hot > deserts might be interested in a little feature on some common > characteristics of these finds. A number of in situ images are included: > > Part 1: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_1.htm > > Part 2: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_2.htm > > Thanks for your interest. > > Cheers > > Svend > > -- > www.meteorite-recon.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Sun Jun 7 17:40:21 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 17:40:21 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Circular polarizers and micrographs Message-ID: Hi List, Many of you are not at all interested in meteorite micrographs but quite a few list members have contacted me over the years about various aspects of meteorite micrographs. Many list members are taking very high quality shots but have not shared them with the list yet. In my Meteorite Micrograph Gallery I primarily use three different microscopes. One of those scopes happened to be set up with a circular polarizer in the analyzer position. This setup worked well with my Nikon auto focus camera but I found I had better results with an older camera on my other scopes. I set out to figure it all out. Many of you are way ahead of me on this one but this could save a lot of trial and error for those who have not given it much thought yet. This is copied from an advertising site for Hoya filters. http://www.thkphoto.com/products/hoya/gf-04.html "Light rays which are reflected by any surface become polarised and polarising filters are used to select which light rays enter your camara lens. PL (Linear Polarising) and PL-CIR (Circular Polarising) filters have the same effect, but it is important that you choose the correct version for your camera. They allow you to remove unwanted reflections from non-metallic surfaces such as water, glass etc. They also enable colors to become more saturated and appear clearer, with better contrast. This effect is often used to increase the contrast and saturation in blue skies and white clouds. HOYA's polarising filters do not affect the overall color balance of a shot." While we are not interested in white fluffy clouds, we are interested in clear sharp focus and linear polarizers detrimentally affect the focus when used with auto focus cameras. They can still work but you might need to take several shots to get one good one. I have found that you can use any polarizer in the first position (based on the light path) but the final filter (called the analyzer) is best if it is a circular polarizer. The auto focus is better and also fast and crisp so your camera doesn't sound like it is sawing logs trying to find focus. I just set up all my scopes with circular polarizers in the analyzer position. This was no easy task as none of the old aus Jena gear had a circular polarizer option (They were made prior to many auto focus cameras). I had to take larger sizes of filters to my rock saw and shape them into the correct size by holding them against the side of the blade and rotating them. If you attempt a change out you will like the results. You will also notice the circular polarizers are directional. That is they only work properly in one direction and not the other. And yes, camera filters are just as good as original equipment polarizers. I have a couple shots I would like to share as an example. They were taken with an auto focus Nikon, through the eyepiece using a circular polaryser analyzer. I will send them full size to any one who is interested. **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml cntnew00000007) From meteoritekid at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 19:28:26 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:28:26 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted - Ash Creek/West Newspaper(s) Message-ID: <93aaac890906071628v2e9485b7r1875114e9dc7d27d@mail.gmail.com> Hello All, Having arrived a little late on the scene, we were too late to purchase the West newspapers that mentioned the fall - does anyone on the list still have any extras they might be willing to sell? Thanks, Jason From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 7 23:58:27 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:58:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Sale New Meteorites listed tonight including.... MIGHEI.... and Two ......Murchison..................and some ending within 24 hours Message-ID: <003101c9e7ed$62abc720$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Hello, How are you fellow meteorite collectors tonight? I have a few meteorites ending on ebay in the next 24 hours and I've listed a few new specimens tonight including a buy-it-now 1.418 gram Mighei and 2 Murchison specimens starting at just $1.00. Please have a look at my ebay seller's page. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZsearchingforfunQQhtZ-1 MIGHEI Meteorite Ukraine 1.418g COA IMCA CM2 VERY RARE Very Important Meteorite, Everyone Must have Mighei Item number: 280355684922 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=280355684922 MURCHISON Meteorite Australia .010 g COA IMCA RARE CM2 Item number: 270404738684 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=270404738684 MURCHISON Meteorite Australia .013 g COA IMCA RARE CM2 Item number: 270404742792 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=270404742792 NWA 753 Meteorite Morocco .292 g COA IMCA RARE R3.9 Item number: 280355604633 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=280355604633 NWA 224 Meteorite Morocco 78.0 g COA IMCA H3.7 Item number: 270404827938 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=270404827938 CHINGA Meteorite USSR 119 g COA IMCA Iron Ataxite IVB-U Very Amazing Beautifully Polished Mirror-Like Surface Item number: 270404778560 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=270404778560 LONG ISLAND Meteorite Kansas 66.8 g COA IMCA CRUST L6 Item number: 280353534549 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=280353534549 Gold Basin Meteorite 20.3 gm IMCA L4 Chondrite Arizona Item number: 270401846580 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=270401846580 Gold Basin Meteorite 21.0 gm IMCA L4 Chondrite Arizona Item number: 270401382946 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=270401382946 BALCARCE Meteorite 25.2 gms IMCA H4 RARE Argentina Found June 2, 2000 by Eduardo Jawerbaum of IMCA RARE Item number: 280353189562 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=280353189562 Thanks for looking! I really appreciate it! Brian Cox IMCA # 6387 searchingforfun is my ebay User ID From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Mon Jun 8 00:07:40 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 21:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted - Ash Creek/West Newspaper(s) Message-ID: <528236.81771.qm@web46406.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I would also like to pick up a copy of the paper. If you have an extra, send me an email! Greg --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Jason Utas wrote: > From: Jason Utas > Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted - Ash Creek/West Newspaper(s) > To: "Meteorite-list" > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:28 PM > Hello All, > Having arrived a little late on the scene, we were too late > to > purchase the West newspapers that mentioned the fall - does > anyone on > the list still have any extras they might be willing to > sell? > Thanks, > Jason > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Mon Jun 8 00:19:30 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 21:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Achondrites on Ebay ending in less then 24 hours Message-ID: <438043.85556.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Here is my ad for this week... I have many Achondrites for sale on ebay currently at very reasonable prices including Lunar at under $1000 per gram for a fusion crusted slice! Ending in under 24 hours are a few nice Camel Donga individuals, slices and endcuts at about $30 per gram as well as Tatahouine fragments, a real nice slice of NWA 5480 (Olivine Diogenite) and a few NWA meteorites. Ending later this week are a few NWA 4734 Lunar part slices and alot of other really nice meteorite samples! Prices for most material is buy it now with free shipping. If interested in any samples on ebay for better prices, email me and we can work something out for an off ebay sale. Visit here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZstar_wars_coiiectorQQhtZ-1 to see what I have listed currently. I will be listing many more items over the next few days also. Hope everyone has had a good day today! Greg C. From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Mon Jun 8 13:59:11 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 10:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW MARTAIN NAKHLITE FOUND/NWA5790 Message-ID: <282101.6262.qm@web62006.mail.re1.yahoo.com> HI ALL?, and massa alkeir, a new martian has been discovred from the rarest one , it's a 136 gr nakhlite , TWO HAS BEEN DICSOVRED ONLY IN NWA ? nwa817 and nwa998, and this new one is not paired to any of those ,it's anew martian, ??? NWA 5790 New nakhlite NWA 5790. Typical nakhlitic texture. Dominant lo-Ca pyroxene phenocrysts (>55%) 1-2 mm, with thin zoned rim. A few % olivine phenocrysts of about the same size in an abundant mesostasis containing fayalite and Ti-magnetite dendritic crystals, K-spar, Na-rich plagio, Cl-apatite, silica, pyrrhotite and glass.-- classified by doctor albert jambon ,in paris Universit? P et M Curie enjoy photo it's the devinette oF last week , and only norbert classen knew what it was from photo, http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/ thanks aziz the habibiest; ? habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon Jun 8 17:21:54 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:21:54 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Where'd all the fireballs go? Message-ID: <4A2D80F2.9070100@meteoritesusa.com> Hello, Where'd all the pretty fireballs go? Has anyone else noticed how quiet the skies are lately? Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 8 18:34:07 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:34:07 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Where'd all the fireballs go? In-Reply-To: <4A2D80F2.9070100@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A2D80F2.9070100@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:21:54 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, Where'd all the pretty fireballs go? > >Has anyone else noticed how quiet the skies are lately? They are probably reading the thread you started on 5/26 where you asked about why there were so many fireballs lately (and then had the concept of "randomness" clearly explianed by Sterling Webb, which I'll repost here): These are random events. And random may be statistically defined as "one every 2.37 days" (or whatever), but they don't happen on a 2.37-day schedule. The first thing you notice when you plot "random" events is that they seem to "cluster." I say "seem" because humans are very sensitively primed to "see" patterns and potential trends in the events of the world. Frequencies go up; frequencies go down; it's random. That's what random means. Every event is completely unpredictable. Yet, given a large number of events and a long enough period of time, the "completely unpredictable" is "completely predictable," in the miracle of statistical mechanics. Watch a large group of randomly decaying uranium atoms draw a near- perfect mathematical curve of declining activity. The Universe likes to have it both ways. In contrast to what Einstein thought, God does roll the dice but, at the same time, the game is totally rigged. Or is it? The only valid rule about seeing fireballs and meteors is this: they may fall or they may not fall, but if you're not looking, you won't see them. From pshugar at clearwire.net Mon Jun 8 18:12:57 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar@clearwire.net) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:12:57 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Random or maybe ?????? Message-ID: <095DEF3192E740B5B2039BF526F5B481@laptop> Hello, list, What are the chances that two consectitive numbered meteorites will both be from Mars? Even more so, they are different Martian meteorites.... I'm asking about NWA 5789 and NWA 5790. The former is announced by Greg and the later by Aziz. I'm by no means an expert, so I can't tell from the description, if they are related or not. It sure the heck would help if we knew the exact find location of each of these exquisite pieces. Pete IMCA 1733 From epgrondine at yahoo.com Mon Jun 8 18:56:30 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 15:56:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: Is 3He a reliable comet impact marker? Message-ID: <663115.41790.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bonjour - With Albert's permission. Enjoy. Merci Beaucoup, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas (Waiting for the IG's report on NASA's response to the Brown Ammendment.) --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Albert Jambon > Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 11:22 AM Ed, sorry but I tried when you first raised the question to write a detailed answer but it was not delivered to the met list, for reasons which I do not understand and had no time to inquire further. 3He is not a marker of cometary material. It is not specific to cometary material... and there is a debate going on about the relationship between cometary material and carbonaceous chondrites which could be the remant of extinct comets. There is abundant literature about the abundance and isotopic composition of He in all kinds of meteorites. Excess 3He (relative to the terrestrial atmospheric reference) is the rule. 3He alone means little, what matters also is the 3He/4He ratio. 1) 3He is a cosmogenic isotope (but not only) 2) In the solar wind the 3He/4He ratio is about 100 times that of the terrestrial atmosphere. Therefore the idea that 3He could be mined from the lunar regolith. 3) 3He is found in all meteorites, at different levels though, and trapped in a variety of components (carbonaceous matter is one). 4) To make it simple (?)(which is probably not) - we have primordial He (several components) trapped in the pristine material of meteorites (or comets). - we have He implanted from the solar wind (near the surface of samples) - we have cosmogenic 3He produced by nuclear reactions (spallation) during the travel through space. This component is more penetrative and decreases with depth. The last two components vary with the duration of exposure and usually dominate the budget. The first component varies with the type of extraterrestrial matter. Albert > > > > > > > >Hello Albert - I worded my question poorly. Is that > "No, no one > >knows" or "No, 3He is not a reliable marker"? Ed --- On > Thu, 6/4/09, > >Albert Jambon > wrote: > From: Albert Jambon > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is 3He a > >reliable comet impact marker? > To: "E.P. Grondine" > > > > Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 10:52 AM > > >No > > > > > >Hi all - > > > > >Now that the shock has dissipated, I > >ask again if > anyone knows if > >3He is a > reliable cometary or > >comet marker? > > > >E.P. Grondine > > >Man and Impact in the > >Americas > > > > > > > > >______________________________________________ > > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > >Meteorite-list > >mailing > >list > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > >-- > Albert JAMBON > Laboratoire Magie? 46-0 > 4eme ?tage, Case 110 > > >Universit? P et M Curie > 4 place jussieu 75252 > Paris Cedex O5 > >France > Tel: 33 (0) 144 27 51 35 > FAX: 33 (0) > 144 27 39 11 > > > >Parcours de Plan?tologie d'Ile de France > > >http://www.ipsl.jussieu.fr/formation/Planeto/Pageweb.html > > > Site > >du master SDUEE sp?cialit? G?osciences, > > G?omat?riaux > > >http://www.master.sduee.upmc.fr/M1/geo/geo_m1.htm > > > > > -- > Albert JAMBON > Laboratoire Magie? 46-0 4eme ?tage, Case 110 > Universit? P et M Curie > 4 place jussieu 75252 Paris Cedex O5 France > Tel: 33 (0) 144 27 51 35 > FAX: 33 (0) 144 27 39 11 > > Parcours de Plan?tologie d'Ile de France > http://www.ipsl.jussieu.fr/formation/Planeto/Pageweb.html > > Site du master SDUEE sp?cialit? G?osciences, > G?omat?riaux > http://www.master.sduee.upmc.fr/M1/geo/geo_m1.htm > > From gmhupe at htn.net Mon Jun 8 19:05:02 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:05:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Random or maybe ?????? References: <095DEF3192E740B5B2039BF526F5B481@laptop> Message-ID: <53EE1220024B4AC6A794A94B447A2CF5@Gregor> Hello Pete, Definitely no comparison! In fact, Habibi said he would have Dr. Jambon email me the "classification" of "5790". Never happened! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Shugar at clearwire.net" To: Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:12 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Random or maybe ?????? > Hello, list, > What are the chances that two consectitive numbered meteorites will both > be from Mars? > Even more so, they are different Martian meteorites.... > I'm asking about NWA 5789 and NWA 5790. > The former is announced by Greg and the later by > Aziz. > I'm by no means an expert, so I can't tell from the description, if they > are related or not. > It sure the heck would help if we knew the exact > find location of each of these exquisite pieces. > Pete IMCA 1733 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From erikfwebb at msn.com Mon Jun 8 19:31:57 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 16:31:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Palo Verde Mine Price Range Message-ID: What is the going prics range of Palo Verde Mine meteorites? From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon Jun 8 20:58:53 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:58:53 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Deep Discounts & Tamdakht Blowout Message-ID: <4A2DB3CD.5060005@meteoritesusa.com> Hi list, I'm continuing a big sale through today and most likely will continue this sale throughout the week depending on how it goes. I've added many very nice specimens to the site since my email last week.As for the website, there are loads of new meteorites listed, and I've discounted some really good material to move it fast. Here is the link to the NWA Meteorite Page: Take 10% Off Any Of These Specimens http://www.meteoritesusa.com/nwa-meteorites.htm Here is the link to the Premium Stone Meteorite Page: Take 5% Off Any Of These Specimens http://www.meteoritesusa.com/stone-meteorites-for-sale.htm BLOWOUT!: Tamdakht H5 Chondrite Half Cuts With Fusion Crust: Regular Price = $385 SALE PRICE = $248 Shipped BUY ALL 3 pieces 132.8 grams total weight, for only $1.87/g or $248 Shipped http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tamdakht-meteorite-for-sale.htm ------------------------------------------------ DEEP DISCOUNTS ON SELECT PIECES BELOW Multiple photos of each piece can be seen on this page http://www.meteoritesusa.com/stone-meteorites-for-sale.htm ------------------------------------------------ 451.6g Superbly Crusted Meteorite: REGULAR PRICE $399 SALE PRICE $299 WHOLE STONE Wonderfully thumbprinted and fusion crusted whole stone chondrite meteorite with awesome crackly black fusion crust. You don't see them this good very often. Meteorite specimens like this are rare and don't last long on the market. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-451-6g.jpg 323.9g Gator Skin Like Crackly Fusion Crust: REGULAR PRICE $299 SALE PRICE $199 CRUSTED END CUT FRAGMENT Fabulous fusion crust resembles scales on an alligator. Super crackly crust, and awesome light gray matrix full of iron make this piece a must have for your collection. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-323-9g.jpg 969.9g Chondrite With Multicolored Interior: REGULAR PRICE $485 SALE PRICE $385 This meteorite sports a wonderful multicolored matrix. Seems to have a good amount or iron. Good solid piece and very densely packes with massive numbers of chondrules. Nice crust and great shape. Displays very nicely from multiple angles. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-969-9g.jpg 427.3g Chondrite End Cut With Black Crust: REGULAR PRICE $320 SALE PRICE $220 CRUSTED END CUT FRAGMENT Good crackly fusion crust light graybrown matrix with a good amount of iron. Very nice piece for any collection. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-427-3g.jpg Deep discounts and 5% or 10% off deal cannot be combined... ;) Call 904-236-5394 to place your order or send in your order via email. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA 904-236-5394 From Impactika at aol.com Mon Jun 8 23:02:53 2009 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 23:02:53 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Last Call......for a while Message-ID: Hello Everybody, A week from right now I will be high above the Atlantic on my way to Paris, then Ensisheim. And I will be gone 2 weeks, to the Ensisheim Show, and a bit of vacation. So, if there is anything on my site you need right now, please let me know very quickly. And if you are planning to be in Ensisheim, tell me what you would like to see "in person" so to speak, and I'll pack it, and bring it with me. Besides "special requests" I will only bring my Thin-Sections collection to Ensisheim, it is getting close to 200 thin-sections, but it is still easier to carry than huge Campos (sorry Hans). See you in Ensisheim, if you are going. Otherwise, A bientot! Anne M. Black http://www.impactika.com/ IMPACTIKA at aol.com Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. http://www.imca.cc/ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585043x1201462775/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Tue Jun 9 00:26:40 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 00:26:40 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 9, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_9_2009.html __________________________ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322977x1201367197/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) From lintonius at earthlink.net Tue Jun 9 03:10:47 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 00:10:47 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - 535 Canyon Diablo relocated Message-ID: Nice little specimen moves from Grand Canyon to Lowell Observatory, in Flastaff. http://www.azdailysun.com/articles/2009/06/08/news/20090608_local_197778.txt I wish I had known it was at the Canyon. I've been there numerous times and didn't have a clue it was there Linton. From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Tue Jun 9 03:44:53 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:44:53 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Last Call......for a while In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090609084453.QQVKC.392202.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi Anne, Looks like Ensisheim will be even more special than ever with the 10th Anniversary....Many thanks to Zelimir for all his hard work and generosity in helping me with my journey and contacts too. Looking forward to seeing you there Anne and all the others, Graham Ensor, UK ---- Impactika at aol.com wrote: > Hello Everybody, > > A week from right now I will be high above the Atlantic on my way to Paris, > then Ensisheim. And I will be gone 2 weeks, to the Ensisheim Show, and a > bit of vacation. > > So, if there is anything on my site you need right now, please let me know > very quickly. > And if you are planning to be in Ensisheim, tell me what you would like to > see "in person" so to speak, and I'll pack it, and bring it with me. Besides > "special requests" I will only bring my Thin-Sections collection to > Ensisheim, it is getting close to 200 thin-sections, but it is still easier to > carry than huge Campos (sorry Hans). > > See you in Ensisheim, if you are going. > Otherwise, A bientot! > > > Anne M. Black > http://www.impactika.com/ > IMPACTIKA at aol.com > Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. > http://www.imca.cc/ > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585043x1201462775/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JunestepsfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rochette at cerege.fr Tue Jun 9 04:00:34 2009 From: rochette at cerege.fr (rochette at cerege.fr) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:00:34 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject) Message-ID: dear list members for a research project I am looking for meteorites from the Sahara or Dhofar that may have been used by prehistoric man. If you think you have such man shaped artefact in your NWAs (or other collection area) please contact me off-list; we can expertise it. regards -- Pierre From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jun 9 05:42:07 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 09 Jun 2009 09:42:07 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5789 and NWA 5790 Message-ID: Hi Pete and List, "they are different Martian meteorites... " "I can't tell from the description, if they are related or not." If I got that right, they are two different Martians! According to Mr. Habibi's own comments, NWA 5790 is a *nakhlite* whereas Greg's, Stefan's and Martin's NWA 5789 is an anomalous *shergottite* or even a *new* type of Martian rock! Best from Germany, Bernd From rochette at cerege.fr Tue Jun 9 06:05:38 2009 From: rochette at cerege.fr (rochette at cerege.fr) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:05:38 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] prehistoric artefact made of meteorites Message-ID: (sorry for not including a subject in my previous post) dear list members for a research project I am looking for meteorites from the Sahara or Dhofar* that may have been used by prehistoric man. If you think you have such man shaped artefact in your NWAs (or other collection area) please contact me off-list; we can expertise it. regards *and more generally Africa and Middle East -- Pierre From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Tue Jun 9 07:16:02 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 13:16:02 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5789 and NWA 5790 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003a01c9e8f3$ad25c380$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Exactely! Nakhlites are a well established type of Mars rock, consisting of the 3 clasics: Nakhla, Lafayette and Governador Valadares, 2 Antarctic finds and 2 hot desert finds NWA 817 and NWA 998 - altogether around 27kgs. How rare they are you already can see on the numbers, as almost 5000 numbers lie in between the last find and that one, Therefore the recovery of NWA 5790 is a true sensation. The NWA 5789 is no nakhlite, nor will it be that easy to group it among the established classes, as it seems to be a kind of Mars rock, not yet known among the other Martian meteorites. Unfortunately it was not more than 49grams. It's new and unique and will stay subject of research for a longer while. Therefore the recovery of NWA 5789 is a true sensation. Under what for a denomination NWA 5789 will end in the Bulletin, nobody knows yet. The NomCom of MetSoc is with Martians still somewhat conservative and seems to want to subdue all under the old three main classes S,N or C. While the Mars-experts have a more differentiated system, e.g. they divide the shergottites in at least 5 subtypes. You see it for instance with the new peridotite NWA 4797, also a new type of Mars rock, which is listed now in the Bulletin database as "shergottite" and which the specialists wouldn't necessarily have called so. So maybe NWA 5789 will end up as a "shergottite" there too, but that doesn't change the new aspects, the material offers, in no way. But I guess that will change - it's a little bit like with the lunars, where they had in former times only two types - LUN-A for the anorthositic breccias and LUN-B for the basalts - and look, what for a variety of types we have now. The classification & meteorite science evolves with time and with new finds. Here some basics: As always first David Weir's famous Meteorite Studies: http://www.meteoritestudies.com/ Norbert Classen's Mars & Moon pages, With a complete list of all Martians, including sample pictures of all available Martians as well it is the best collection of main mass pictures: http://www.meteoris.de/ And brandnew, developing to a Martian pendant to Randy Korotev's fantastic lunar pages - Anthony Irvings Martian site: http://www.imca.cc/mars/martian-meteorites.htm Perhaps a remark. Although we're still waiting a little bit, that science can take its share and although we currently can't promise, that something will be left then from NWA 5789, you can apply for a specimen by private mail, to be set on the waiting list. No worries, we aren't cruel, the price of that unique material will be lower than the price of the nakhlites, although it's endlessly rarer. (Uh partially remarkably lower, if I google around....). All the Best! Martin & Stefan -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. Juni 2009 11:42 An: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] NWA 5789 and NWA 5790 Hi Pete and List, "they are different Martian meteorites... " "I can't tell from the description, if they are related or not." If I got that right, they are two different Martians! According to Mr. Habibi's own comments, NWA 5790 is a *nakhlite* whereas Greg's, Stefan's and Martin's NWA 5789 is an anomalous *shergottite* or even a *new* type of Martian rock! Best from Germany, Bernd ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Tue Jun 9 15:14:04 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:14:04 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Getting warm and wet from meteorites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/08/study-20-million-year-meteorite-shower-turned-earth-warm-wet/ Study: 20-Million-Year Meteorite Shower Turned Earth Warm & Wet A shower of millions of rocks from space that collided with Mars, the Earth, and the moon about four billion years ago could have warmed our planet and made it wetter, say researchers. That?s what scientists found when they heated ancient rocks like those that hit the Earth billions of years ago and measured the carbon dioxide and water that was released, according to a study published in the journal Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta. Scientists have long suspected that the necessary materials for life could have come from outer space, and the study suggests how and when the Earth might have received these life-giving ingredients. During the 20-million-year-long meteor shower known as the Late Heavy Bombardment, the rocks that hurtled towards Earth would have been heated to extremely high temperatures as they entered the atmosphere. According to the scientists? theory, the frictional heat of passing through the thin atmosphere that surrounded the Earth at that time would have been enough to strip the oxygen- and water-rich outer layers from the meteorites as they plunged toward the planet. That process would slowly have caused a buildup of oxygen and water in the atmosphere [Los Angeles Times]. At a rate of 20,000 degrees Celsius per second, the researchers heated samples of ancient rocks remaining from the bombardment in the absence of oxygen to prevent combustion. They then measured the gases released when the rocks were heated. The scientists found that, on average, each meteorite was capable of releasing up to 12 per cent of its mass as water vapour and 6 per cent of its mass as carbon dioxide [Scientific American]. Although that amount is too minuscule for just a meteor or two to have an effect on the Earth?s composition, records reveal that the Late Heavy Bombardment dumped millions of rocks on Earth and Mars. The researchers calculate that this would have dumped 10 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide and 10 billion tonnes of water vapour into each planet?s atmosphere every year [Scientific American]. That amount of carbon dioxide could have started a greenhouse effect to warm up the planet, researchers hypothesize. According to lead author Richard Court, the scientists? data ?reveals just how much water and carbon dioxide was directly injected into the atmosphere by meteorites. These gases could have got to work immediately, boosting the water cycle and warming the planet? [Astrobiology Magazine]. But if both Mars and Earth were bombarded by the meteorites, why isn?t Mars? atmosphere more conducive to life? Unlike Earth, Mars doesn?t have a magnetic field to act as a protective shield from the sun?s solar wind. As a consequence, Mars was stripped of most of its atmosphere. A reduction in volcanic activity also cooled the planet. This caused its liquid oceans to retreat to the poles where they became ice From mexicodoug at aim.com Tue Jun 9 14:51:53 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:51:53 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] - 535 Canyon Diablo relocated In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBB74A7ABF61C3-1760-F85@WEBMAIL-MZ07.sysops.aol.com> Hi Linton, List, How sad! - this smacks of Nininger's closing of his museum at Meteor Crater (Though I am sure the Barringers can identify with it as well). Lowell is the most deserving of institutions, but it looks like the meteorite is now in the part of the visitor center that requires more than a token payment to get in to the complex, whether visitors are interested in seeing the rest the observatory has to offer or not. Now departed is the Verkamps/early Nininger era in Zane Grey's bygone West (whose fiction included references to Meteor Crater). For anyone else like me who gets nostalgic seeing the dying breaths of home brewed cowboy and Indian administration go by the wayside, or the erasure of collective memories tooling down route 66 teaching screaming wide-eyed kids in the back seat learning that travel is so broadening, here's another article related to Linton's post. http://www.santafenewmexican.com/National%20News/Historic-Grand-Canyon-shop-to-close-after-102-years-at-the-rim Trouble with the link? then use this one: http://tinyurl.com/kw8l3e Also, you can't help noticing this part of Linton's linked article: "As to how the Verkamp family ended up with the fragment, Verkamp said, "We don't quite know." " Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Linton Rohr To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 2:10 am Subject: [meteorite-list] - 535 Canyon Diablo relocated Nice little specimen moves from Grand Canyon to Lowell Observatory, in Flastaff.? ? http://www.azdailysun.com/articles/2009/06/08/news/20090608_local_197778.txt? ? I wish I had known it was at the Canyon. I've been there numerous times and didn't have a clue it was there? ? Linton. ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jun 9 15:24:25 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Dawn Re-Lights the Ionic Fire Message-ID: <200906091924.MAA04542@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=2180 Dawn Re-Lights the Ionic Fire Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 08, 2009 Mission controllers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., have received a transmission from the Dawn spacecraft confirming it has re-ignited its ion propulsion system. For those of you scoring at home, Thruster # 1 received the honors. Over the course of its eight-year mission, first to asteroid Vesta and then off to dwarf planet Ceres, Dawn's three ion engines will accumulate 2,000 days of operation. The mission of the 1180 kilograms (2,600 pound) spacecraft is to reconnoiter Vesta and Ceres, the asteroid belt's two biggest residents. Dawn is currently 299 million kilometers (185.6 million miles) from Earth. At that distance, it takes almost 17 minutes for a transmission from the spacecraft to arrive on Earth. For more information on Dawn please visit: http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/ From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jun 9 15:26:43 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Orbiter Resumes Science Observations (MRO) Message-ID: <200906091926.MAA05475@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-096 Mars Orbiter Resumes Science Observations Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 09, 2009 Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter Mission Status Report PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is examining Mars again with its scientific instruments after successfully transitioning out of a precautionary standby mode triggered by an unexpected June 3 rebooting of its computer. Engineers brought the spacecraft out of the standby mode on June 6. Cameras and other scientific instruments resumed operation June 9. The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter reached Mars in 2006 and has returned more data about the planet than all other Mars missions combined. The June 3 rebooting resembled a Feb. 23 event on the spacecraft. Engineers are re-investigating possible root causes for both events. The new investigation includes reconsidering the likelihood of erroneous voltage readings resulting from cosmic rays or solar particles hitting an electronic component. Media Contact: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov 2009-096 From dave at fallingrocks.com Tue Jun 9 16:09:38 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:09:38 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad post for Robert Ward Message-ID: <81B2E357FF88404CAA1FB074DA603CAD@meteorroom> All, Robert is having the same difficulties many list members have had of late with his Yahoo address, so he asked me to forward this to all of you. He has some great material ending soon on eBay, and you can see the items via the links below. If you have any questions, he can be reached at ironfromthesky at yahoo.com. On behalf of Robert (www.ironfromthesky.com), thanks for looking! Dave 274 g. Henbury endcut http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item =170341209580 40 g. Gujba http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item =170341217908 112 g. Boxhole iron http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item =170341220884 736 g. Muonionalusta iron http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item =170341211155 116 g. Zacatecas iron slice http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item =170341206583 Dave Gheesling IMCA #5967 www.fallingrocks.com From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jun 9 16:25:16 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 13:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensishem Message-ID: <825980.50543.qm@web110606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi all, I am just home from a month-long expedition. I am working hard to catch up on old business, and getting ready to leave next week for France and Germany. I will attend both the Ensisheim and St Marie shows in France. I need to know if there is anything anyone there wants me to bring with me, as I will not be exhibiting except on a limited basis. I plan to relax, not work! Michael Farmer From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jun 9 16:47:05 2009 From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 13:47:05 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Postdoctoral position in Antarctic meteorite research In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Howdy ladies and gents, I'm passing on notification that a postdoctoral position in Antarctic meteorite research is available. The point of contact is Dr. Ralph Harvey at Case Western University, with contact info at the bottom. Cheers, MDF ------ Forwarded Message From: Ralph Harvey Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:08:51 -0700 To: "Fries, Marc D" Subject: Re: Answer Here's the ad........ Postdoctoral Position: Antarctic Meteorite Recovery and Planetary Research The Antarctic Search for Meteorites (ANSMET) program at Case Western Reserve University is seeking applications for a multi-year postdoctoral research position (title will vary with experience). Duties will include leadership during Antarctic meteorite fieldwork and active involvement in ongoing planetary research. Successful candidates must have a Ph.D. in geology, planetary science, or a related field. Candidates must also have a valid passport or be able to obtain one, and be capable of passing the stringent physical and dental examinations required for Antarctic deployment. Candidates with previous Antarctic experience and/or prior research in planetary studies are preferred. For more details visit http://geology.cwru.edu/~ansmet/postdoc_ad.pdf. To apply, send a letter of application with a summary of your research interests and experience, curriculum vitae, and contact information for three professional references to Dr Ralph Harvey (rph at case.edu) via electronic mail. Review of applications will begin immediately and continue until the position is filled. Case Western Reserve University is an EEO/AA institution. -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Ralph P. Harvey, Assoc. Prof. Phone: (216) 368-0198 Geology, 112 A.W. Smith Bldg. FAX: (216) 368-3691 Case Western Reserve University Cleveland, OH 44106-7216 rph at case.edu See the Antarctic Search for Meteorites website- http://geology.cwru.edu/~ansmet/ ------ End of Forwarded Message From geoking at notkin.net Tue Jun 9 17:28:34 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 14:28:34 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorwritings, " Richard Norton, and "The Art of Collecting Meteorites" Message-ID: Dear Listees: The June edition of "Meteorwritings" has been online for a few days. In keeping with Geology.com's interest in entry level content, this is a basic introduction to meteorite collecting for beginners. As always, we took a series of new photos for the column, and I think you will find a couple of them quite amusing. This month's episode is dedicated to our late friend Richard Norton, as he did so very much to popularize our favorite subject: http://geology.com/meteorites/meteorite-collecting.shtml In the article I recommend List member Kevin Kichinka's "The Art of Collecting Meteorites." I had the pleasure of working with Kevin on his lovely book, a while back, as design director. Kevin published the book himself, and I gather it is fairly close to selling out. Anyone who collects meteorite books and does not have a copy, may want to add this fine edition to his/her library before they are all gone. You can order a copy from directly from Kevin here: http://www.theartofcollectingmeteorites.com In addition, I wrote a brief piece about Richard for my science column on TucsonCitizen.com. Anyone who is interested can find it here: http://tucsoncitizen.com/lizard/2009/06/04/richard-norton-space-rock-writer Thanks for reading and all the best from Tucson, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com www.meteoriteblog.org From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jun 9 18:19:26 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 09 Jun 2009 22:19:26 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorwritings, " Richard Norton, and "The Art of Collecting Meteorites" Message-ID: Geoff kindly writes: "This month's episode is dedicated to our late friend Richard Norton, as he did so very much to popularize our favorite subject:" http://geology.com/meteorites/meteorite-collecting.shtml "In addition, I wrote a brief piece about Richard for my science column on TucsonCitizen.com. Anyone who is interested can find it here:" http://tucsoncitizen.com/lizard/2009/06/04/richard-norton-space-rock-writer Thank you very much for sharing with us! The photo that shows our late friend Richard Norton accepting the Harvey Award for outstanding contributions to the field of meteoritics during the 2003 Tucson gem show with a smiling Dorothy in the background reminds me of a fascinating, little episode of the 2008 Munich show: Our younger grandson Elias who is "only" six years young, loves and adores dinosaurs. The first question he usually asks when he comes to our house is: "Grandpa, can I watch this or that dinosaur DVD". A few moments later, you can ask him if he wants something to drink, whether he wants something to eat, ... no answer because he is so enthusiastic about these critters that he just doesn't hear you :-) Close to the entrance to the 2008 Munich show, my Pauline and I, we suddenly spotted a group of (Swiss?) people offering dinosaur replicas -- not cheap because expertly made! Well, we acquired the only T-Rex tooth replica that was left to the disappointment of a German list member who would also have liked such a genuine copy of the "real thing!" Elias' reaction when he saw this T-Rex tooth is beyond description! Not only was it carefully packed but it also contained detailed info about the former owner of this tooth: Stan, a majestic "Tyrant Lizard King" roaming the Hell Creek Formation, Upper Cretaceous, South Dakota, USA, about 65 million years ago. Let me now come back to your brief piece about Richard on TucsonCitizen.com, where we can see a smiling Dorothy in the background. When I read the leaflet that came with Stan's tooth and when I scanned the contents into my computer for later use when Elias is old enough to really "appreciate" what he has got, I suddenly saw a precise rendering of a dinosaur's skull on one of these leaflets. I don't think I have to tell you who the artist of this skull is and that's only one reason why Dorothy was the co-recipient of that award! Best from Germany, Bernd From roxfromspace at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 18:57:08 2009 From: roxfromspace at gmail.com (Phil Morgan) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:57:08 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5546 and CV3's in general Message-ID: <70baf8d20906091557h5dd17f50g459b83c07f6ae25@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone, I recently purchased a small endpiece of what I assumed was probably a pairing to NWA 5546. After cleaning it up a bit, I noticed an overall elongation and orientation of the chondrules.? I was wondering if anyone else would agree from the picture at the link below. http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/pkmorgan/share/cv3b.jpg I've always been fascinated by Leoville and while this may not be as extreme, I thought I'd go out on a limb and see if anyone else saw it. For those of you who have some, does this look like NWA 5546? Is there any reason to believe this might not even be a CV3? Also, I tend to collect smaller pieces to match my budget and was surprised at how hard this pulled to a magnet.? More like an H chondrite.? How do the different carbonaceous classes typically respond to a magnet?? In Ruben's recent CK recovery video I recall that those responsed fairly strongly as well. Thanks, Phil From deanbessey at yahoo.com Tue Jun 9 19:12:23 2009 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5546 and CV3's in general Message-ID: <325711.15243.qm@web56104.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I also have something similar and it is also very strongly magnetic. See here some photos: http://www.ilovenewfoundland.com/meteoriteshop/x/1.jpg http://www.ilovenewfoundland.com/meteoriteshop/x/2.jpg Look at how georgous it is from this photo: http://www.ilovenewfoundland.com/meteoriteshop/x/3.jpg Here almost looks like a part where chondrules is missing http://www.ilovenewfoundland.com/meteoriteshop/x/4.jpg http://www.ilovenewfoundland.com/meteoriteshop/x/5.jpg The stone before I cut the end off was 894 Grams. Pretty nice whatever it is Cheers DEAN --- On Tue, 6/9/09, Phil Morgan wrote: > From: Phil Morgan > Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5546 and CV3's in general > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 3:57 PM > Hello everyone, > I recently purchased a small endpiece of what I assumed was > probably a > pairing to NWA 5546. > > After cleaning it up a bit, I noticed an overall elongation > and > orientation of the chondrules. I was wondering if anyone > else would > agree from the picture at the link below. > http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/pkmorgan/share/cv3b.jpg > > I've always been fascinated by Leoville and while this may > not be as > extreme, I thought I'd go out on a limb and see if anyone > else saw it. > > For those of you who have some, does this look like NWA > 5546? Is > there any reason to believe this might not even be a CV3? > > Also, I tend to collect smaller pieces to match my budget > and was > surprised at how hard this pulled to a magnet. More like > an H > chondrite. How do the different carbonaceous classes > typically > respond to a magnet? In Ruben's recent CK recovery video > I recall > that those responsed fairly strongly as well. > > Thanks, > Phil > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From geoking at notkin.net Tue Jun 9 21:01:21 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:01:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Historic Monnig Collection Pieces, Big Sikhotes and LDG, etc. Message-ID: <39462409-6146-4610-8BE7-3AB8DD578863@notkin.net> Dear Listees: Greetings all. I am delighted to offer a fine assortment of historic pieces from the Oscar Monnig Collection. We have individuals, slices and part slices from six classic Texas chondrites: Davy (a), Davy (b), Dimmitt, Round Top (b), Tulia (a) and Tulia (d). All specimens come with original Monnig Collection labels and the Dimmitt and Tulia individuals carry hand painted Monnig Collection numbers (as cataloged by Glenn Huss) AND a second set of numbers which were Oscar's personal code noting where the specimen was found. http://www.aerolite.org/historic-meteorites.htm#monnig I am offering a free copy of "The Oscar E. Monnig Meteorite Collection Catalog" for any purchase of $200 or more. Order today and pay with PayPal before midnight Pacific and take 10% off your order too. Please check out our Museum Quality Specimens page for some real cosmic wonders: http://www.aerolite.org/museum-specimens.htm Of special note: A 10.02 kilo Sikhote-Alin shrapnel specimen, shield shaped and covered with fascinating surface features. This very large piece defies gravity and stands up naturally on its edge, making for a dynamite display piece. Look at the photos and you'll see what I mean. Really, we did not prop it up!: http://www.aerolite.org/museum/sikhote-alin-shrap-10kg.htm Also, an intriguing large Sikhote-Alin individual, 2,971 grams, with good regmaglypts and amazing pointing "fingers": http://www.aerolite.org/museum/sikhote-alin-2971.htm All recent additions can be viewed on one page here: http://www.aerolite.org/new.htm And finally for today, we are down to our last small handful of the limited edition "Meteorite Men" Brenham collectibles in lucite. Only 100 of this special edition were made by Steve #1 and myself, and they come with a numbered Certificate of Authenticity and a signed color photo of the excavation of the complete mass. Details: http://www.aerolite.org/meteoritemen/brenham-kansas-meteorite.htm We have less than ten left, so let me know pronto if you want one. As always, we ship anywhere in the known universe and happily accept PayPal, checks, money orders, and major credit cards. Layaways available. Reasonable offers always considered. Thanks for looking and all the best from the Wild West, Geoff N. Aerolite Meteorites of Tucson www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com www.meteoriteblog.org www.tucsoncitizen.com/lizard From mpg4444 at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 21:37:12 2009 From: mpg4444 at gmail.com (Michael Groetz) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 21:37:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star Message-ID: http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230 The tale of a falling star By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter Tuesday, June 09, 2009 CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work. A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for money and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun and profit. In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade, and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley would surrender its ancient treasures. Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of income for anyone willing to turn over a few stones. For this trip he chose a uniquely constructed ruin located on a windswept, five-acre mesa above West Clear Creek. With a view of the entire valley, the outline of its crumbled walls looked more like a stockade than a home, a nearly square perimeter of rooms surrounding a common courtyard. Latter-day archaeologists believe the pueblo was built by people of the Salado culture, indigenous to the Salt River Valley, instead of the native Sinagua whose former homes make up the bulk of the Verde's ancient architecture. A very good day One day while searching through rubble in the northeast corner of one room, Dawson spied a familiar structure -- one that led him to believe it was going to be a good day -- a very good day. The flat slab of sandstone at his feet, he knew to be the cover of a burial cyst, just the right size to contain the body of a child, along with whatever treasures the family had packed along for the afterlife. Dawson slid the cover back and began clearing the accumulated dirt and debris. Eighteen inches down he uncovered a layer of feathers. As he gently scraped away he realized in was a blanket of feathers, wrapped about the cherished treasure. An hour or so later, having cleared out all but the feather blanket and its contents, he reached in and gently lifted the bundle. It pulled back. A second more forceful tug and Dawson realized it was not the lightweight body of the child he had expected. With great difficulty, he wrestled the object from its grave, pulled back the delicate feather blanket and found himself gazing at a two-foot long, one-foot wide, five-inch thick, 135-pound, oddly-shaped hunk of rusting rock. Dawson had an idea of what he was looking at, but it was not until several months later, after it was tested, that he knew for sure. The object so delicately wrapped and reverently placed in the stone cyst was a nickel-iron meteorite, or what meteorite collectors call simply, an iron. The second journey To date, know one knows how it got there. We do know that Dawson sold it in 1939 to one of the preeminent meteorite researchers and collectors of his day, Harold Harlow Nininger, who dubbed it the Camp Verde Meteorite. Convention dictated it be named for the closest post office or geological feature. We also know that in 1959 Nininger sold the meteorite, along with more than 700 others, to Arizona State University, where it is currently housed in the school's meteorite collection at ASU's Center for Meteorite Studies. What significance the object held to the architecturally unique souls who once lived on Wingfield Mesa, we will likely never know. Archaeologists have uncovered feather blankets, and several meteorites, in archaeological digs. Dawson is the only one to have found both of them together. Religious significance A year after Dawson's find, two pothunters discovered another meteorite in a stone cyst, or at least 40 to 50 pounds of fragments thereof, in a ruin east of Flagstaff. It became known as the Winona Meteorite and is now on display at the museum of Northern Arizona. Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe, N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin near Chihuahua, Mexico. As Peter Pilles, archaeologist for the Coconino National Forest, has observed, when archaeologists are uncertain about an object's use or importance, they give it religious significance. But in the case of the Camp Verde meteorite, with its feather wrappings and the fact it was stored in the same manner as human remains, there can be little doubt it was held in reverence. Scientific questions Lawrence Garvie, director of meteorite collection at ASU, is a scientist both by nature and by training. But even he can't help but speculate on the meteorite's unusual shape and significance. "It looks to me more like a child than a leaf or an arrowhead, as some have described it. It has a distinctive head and shoulders, and a very pronounced backbone that appears to have been rubbed smooth by human touch. And when struck it has a beautiful ringing sound," Garvie says. For scientists like Garvie, and the Center for Meteorites Studies founder and former director, Carleton Moore, the meteorite also poses some real world questions, not the least of which is where did it fall and how did it end up in the ruins of an ancient pueblo. About 50,000 years ago, a 150-foot diameter, 300,000-ton, iron and nickel meteorite crashed into Canyon Diablo outside of modern-day Winslow, creating Meteor Crater. The impact vaporized at least half and scattered the remaining pieces across a wide area of the Colorado Plateau. "The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that it does not look like the other Canyon Diablo irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, is identical. So the only conclusion we can make is that it is a piece of Canyon Diablo. "But I have always had my doubts. The other great puzzle is also how did it get so far from Meteor Crater. The nomadic people who lived in Arizona didn't lug these sorts of things around." Garvie and Moore both believe it is possible the Camp Verde meteorite was a fragment that separated from the main mass of the Canyon Diablo meteorite as it broke apart in the atmosphere, landing farther south. Fact or fiction As for the fate of the feather blanket, it was parceled out and lost. According to a correspondence from Dawson to Nininger, he (Dawson) gave away pieces of the blanket to collectors over the years. It would seem possible that the entire story of the Camp Verde meteorite is pure fiction, dreamt up by Dawson to make an otherwise common iron meteorite more valuable, were it not for statements in a narrative Nininger later wrote. Nininger notes he never heard the story of the meteorite's discovery until he came to Phoenix to make the purchase. There is also the fact that he bought it for what he described as no more than "the price usually paid for Canyon Diablo irons ($0.50 per pound)." Lastly, in April 1940, at Nininger's request, Dawson brought him to Camp Verde to see the pueblo and search for feathers or the remains of the cyst. "We hunted the long line of obscure ruins until he reached the crumbled walls of a small room, in the corner of which was a slight depression and several flat stones protruding from the drifted dust and debris. "Digging out the filling of dust and weeds failed to reveal a shred of the feather cloth wrapping, but this was hardly surprising...We gathered the flat stones and made several trips down the steep slope to the car and back again," Nininger states. Final journey The ancient owners of the Camp Verde meteorite may or may not have lugged it around in their travels, but Nininger did. For seven years following its purchase, he continued to search the planet for what had fallen from the heavens. Then in 1946, he quit the road and established the American Meteorite Museum on Route 66 near Meteor Crater, where it went on public display. In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley for the first time in nearly 800 years. Today the Camp Verde meteorite rests prominently on a table with two dozen other irons, many of which came with the Nininger collection, in the center of a room containing hundreds of other meteorites from across the world and, ultimately, beyond. From mexicodoug at aim.com Tue Jun 9 23:40:35 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:40:35 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> Great article, though this paragraph about other "meteors" being found need editing: "Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe, N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin near Chihuahua, Mexico." The Incas, of course are not from Chihuahua, but a good fraction of a world away in Peru ... The author is referring to the Paquim? pueblo of the probably Anasazi Pueblo type Indians (Like from the US southwest), though they may have had a tad more of Aztec influence. And the meteorite is from INSIDE Chihuahua (the state), and NEAR Nuevas Casas Grandes. It was found far from Chihuahua City actually much closer to Arizona which is just 93 miles away. Political boundaries...bah :-) Does anyone recall what other ancient ruins yielded authenticated meteorites outside the Americas as claiming by the article they are found "all around the world in ancient ruins". I am thinking Greece, Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes to mind. And the Japanese one was certainly not found in ruins. Another tear shed today after reading about the other Grand Canyon fragment... "In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley for the first time in nearly 800 yea rs." One (at least me) wonders whether the "800 year buried piece of Canyon Diablo (Camp Verde piece)" was ever at all "on display" on the Native American Sinagua or if it was placed to rest with that stone ceremonially out of sight with respects being rendered specifically NOT to be displayed, I am not sure how this statement about displaying could be made in the article with any accuracy, and suppose the author really got carried away trying to say the Camp Verde piece is on display in the Verde Vally of AZ...but not sure; thanks for the post! Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Michael Groetz To: Meteorite List Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:37 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230 The tale of a falling star By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter Tuesday, June 09, 2009 CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work. A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for money and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun and profit. In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade, and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley would surren der its ancient treasures. Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of income for anyone willing to turn over a few stones. For this trip he chose a uniquely constructed ruin located on a windswept, five-acre mesa above West Clear Creek. With a view of the entire valley, the outline of its crumbled walls looked more like a stockade than a home, a nearly square perimeter of rooms surrounding a common courtyard. Latter-day archaeologists believe the pueblo was built by people of the Salado culture, indigenous to the Salt River Valley, instead of the native Sinagua whose former homes make up the bulk of the Verde's ancient architecture. A very good day One day while searching through rubble in the northeast corner of one room, Dawson spied a familiar structure -- one that led him to believe it was going to be a good day -- a very good day. The flat slab of sandstone at his feet, he knew to be the cover of a burial cyst, just the right size to contain the body of a child, along with whatever treasures the family had packed along for the afterlife. Dawson slid the cover back and began clearing the accumulated dirt and debris. Eighteen inches down he uncovered a layer of feathers. As he gently scraped away he realized in was a blanket of feathers, wrapped about the cherished treasure. An hour or so later, having cleared out all but the feather blanket and its contents, he reached20in and gently lifted the bundle. It pulled back. A second more forceful tug and Dawson realized it was not the lightweight body of the child he had expected. With great difficulty, he wrestled the object from its grave, pulled back the delicate feather blanket and found himself gazing at a two-foot long, one-foot wide, five-inch thick, 135-pound, oddly-shaped hunk of rusting rock. Dawson had an idea of what he was looking at, but it was not until several months later, after it was tested, that he knew for sure. The object so delicately wrapped and reverently placed in the stone cyst was a nickel-iron meteorite, or what meteorite collectors call simply, an iron. The second journey To date, know one knows how it got there. We do know that Dawson sold it in 1939 to one of the preeminent meteorite researchers and collectors of his day, Harold Harlow Nininger, who dubbed it the Camp Verde Meteorite. Convention dictated it be named for the closest post office or geological feature. We also know that in 1959 Nininger sold the meteorite, along with more than 700 others, to Arizona State University, where it is currently housed in the school's meteorite collection at ASU's Center for Meteorite Studies. What significance the object held to the architecturally unique souls who once lived on Wingfield Mesa, we will likely never know. Archaeologists have uncovered feather blankets, and several meteorites, in archaeological digs. Dawson is the only one to have found both of them together. Religious significance A year after Dawson's find, two pothunters discovered another meteorite in a stone cyst, or at least 40 to 50 pounds of fragments thereof, in a ruin east of Flagstaff. It became known as the Winona Meteorite and is now on display at the museum of Northern Arizona. Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe, N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin near Chihuahua, Mexico. As Peter Pilles, archaeologist for the Coconino National Forest, has observed, when archaeologists are uncertain about an object's use or importance, they give it religious significance. But in the case of the Camp Verde meteorite, with its feather wrappings and the fact it was stored in the same manner as human remains, there can be little doubt it was held in reverence. Scientific questions Lawrence Garvie, director of meteorite collection at ASU, is a scientist both by nature and by training. But even he can't help but speculate on the meteorite's unusual shape and significance. "It looks to me more like a child than a leaf or an arrowhead, as some have described it. It has a distinctive head and shoulders, and a very pronounced backbone that appears to have been rubbed smooth by human touch. And when struck it has a beautiful ringing sound," Garvie says. For scientists like Garvie, and the Center for Meteorites Studies founder and former director, Carleton Moore, the meteorite also poses some real world questions, not the least of which is where did it fall and how did it end up in the ruins of an ancient pueblo. About 50,000 years ago, a 150-foot diameter, 300,000-ton, iron and nickel meteorite crashed into Canyon Diablo outside of modern-day Winslow, creating Meteor Crater. The impact vaporized at least half and scattered the remaining pieces across a wide area of the Colorado Plateau. "The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that it does not look like the other Canyon Diablo irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, is identical. So the only conclusion we can make is that it is a piece of Canyon Diablo. "But I have always had my doubts. The other great puzzle is also how did it get so far from Meteor Crater. The nomadic people who lived in Arizona didn't lug these sorts of things around." Garvie and Moore both believe it is possible the Camp Verde meteorite was a fragment that separated from the main mass of the Canyon Diablo meteorite as it broke apart in the atmosphere, landing farther south. Fact or fiction As for the fate of the feather blanket, it was parceled out and lost. According to a correspondence from Dawson to Nininger, he (Dawson) gave away pieces of the blanket=2 0to collectors over the years. It would seem possible that the entire story of the Camp Verde meteorite is pure fiction, dreamt up by Dawson to make an otherwise common iron meteorite more valuable, were it not for statements in a narrative Nininger later wrote. Nininger notes he never heard the story of the meteorite's discovery until he came to Phoenix to make the purchase. There is also the fact that he bought it for what he described as no more than "the price usually paid for Canyon Diablo irons ($0.50 per pound)." Lastly, in April 1940, at Nininger's request, Dawson brought him to Camp Verde to see the pueblo and search for feathers or the remains of the cyst. "We hunted the long line of obscure ruins until he reached the crumbled walls of a small room, in the corner of which was a slight depression and several flat stones protruding from the drifted dust and debris. "Digging out the filling of dust and weeds failed to reveal a shred of the feather cloth wrapping, but this was hardly surprising...We gathered the flat stones and made several trips down the steep slope to the car and back again," Nininger states. Final journey The ancient owners of the Camp Verde meteorite may or may not have lugged it around in their travels, but Nininger did. For seven years following its purchase, he continued to search the planet for what had fallen from the heavens. Then in 1946, he quit the road and esta blished the American Meteorite Museum on Route 66 near Meteor Crater, where it went on public display. In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley for the first time in nearly 800 years. Today the Camp Verde meteorite rests prominently on a table with two dozen other irons, many of which came with the Nininger collection, in the center of a room containing hundreds of other meteorites from across the world and, ultimately, beyond. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritekid at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 23:53:58 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:53:58 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - 11.5g Esquel Slice Message-ID: <93aaac890906092053o23d32b9cn522241240717d3f@mail.gmail.com> Hello All, I have an 11.5g square-cut Esquel part-slice for sale or trade. It's an older, slightly thicker slice so the olivine actually looks bright green, rather unlike the thinner slices that have been on the market more recently which have better surface area but much less colour. From what I can tell, *no* lacquer was used to restore the olivine in this specimen - it looks to be completely original, even on the corners. Sharp corners and edges, a perfect piece for jewelry-making or for a collector looking for a prime example of a pallasite. There's no rust, but it could use a light buffing to get rid of minor surface things like fingerprints. A fine specimen of a getting-harder-to-find meteorite. Photos available here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30622578 at N08/sets/72157619522338206/ Asking $400. Open to offers or trades. Thanks, Jason From dave at fallingrocks.com Wed Jun 10 00:53:00 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:53:00 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad post for Robert Ward (revised links) Message-ID: <275B342324D94F20BBB8FF3BCA3A11D8@meteorroom> All, Apologies for the re-post on Robert's auctions, but the links I forwarded earlier were apparently not good. Hopefully these work... Best, Dave 274 g. Henbury endcut http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170341209580 40 g. Gujba http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170341217908 112 g. Boxhole iron http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170341220884 736 g. Muonionalusta iron http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170341211155 116 g. Zacatecas iron slice http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170341206583 Dave Gheesling IMCA #5967 www.fallingrocks.com From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 10 00:57:09 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:57:09 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star References: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Doug said: > I am thinking [of] Greece, Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes > to mind. I'm sure Doug named those places because there were famous meteorites of religious significance associated with sites there. While it is true that their whereabouts is presently unknown [and will likely remain that way), there's no doubt whatsoever about their existence. So, no, no ancient ruins "yielded" authenticated meteorites. You see, there was this obscure religious cult that took over and tried, with great success, to destroy all traces of any previous religious worship, temples, shrines, relics, and so forth. No meteorite survivors of Greece and Rome are known. However, there are pieces of the "Black Stone" of the Kaa'ba, a meteorite, in Turkey (by a List memeber): http://kauscience.k12.hi.us/~ted/Blackstone/hajar-al-aswad.htm The meteoritic nature (or non-nature) of a famous Temple stone is discussed by another List member: http://imca.repetti.net/articles/IMCA-Insights4.htm Evidence in coinage of Temple stones, some of which were meteorites, can be found here (more List members): http://www.pibburns.com/catastro/metstamp.htm#classicalcoins A discussion of various meteoritic Temple stones can be found here (Popular ASstronomy, 1936, at ADS): http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1936PA.....44..514W/0000514.000.html Traditionally, the Classical Temple stones were "nose-cone" shaped. In a word, oriented (if they were meteorites). There is a fascinating discussion of why the baetyls that are found are not actually meteorites. The explanation? Lots of shrines, but not so many meteorites! http://www.ancients.info/forums/showthread.php?t=845 Everybody wants a meteorite for their Temple, ya know? Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star > Great article, though this paragraph about other "meteors" being found > need editing: > > "Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as > well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce > Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe, > N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin > near Chihuahua, Mexico." > > The Incas, of course are not from Chihuahua, but a good fraction of a > world away in Peru ... The author is referring to the Paquim? pueblo > of the probably Anasazi Pueblo type Indians (Like from the US > southwest), though they may have had a tad more of Aztec influence. > And the meteorite is from INSIDE Chihuahua (the state), and NEAR > Nuevas Casas Grandes. It was found far from Chihuahua City actually > much closer to Arizona which is just 93 miles away. Political > boundaries...bah :-) > > Does anyone recall what other ancient ruins yielded authenticated > meteorites outside the Americas as claiming by the article they are > found "all around the world in ancient ruins". I am thinking Greece, > Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes to mind. And the Japanese > one was certainly not found in ruins. > > Another tear shed today after reading about the other Grand Canyon > fragment... > > "In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his > collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley > for the first time in nearly 800 yea > rs." > > One (at least me) wonders whether the "800 year buried piece of Canyon > Diablo (Camp Verde piece)" was ever at all "on display" on the Native > American Sinagua or if it was placed to rest with that stone > ceremonially out of sight with respects being rendered specifically > NOT to be displayed, I am not sure how this statement about displaying > could be made in the article with any accuracy, and suppose the author > really got carried away trying to say the Camp Verde piece is on > display in the Verde Vally of AZ...but not sure; thanks for the post! > > Best wishes, > Doug > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Groetz > To: Meteorite List > Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:37 pm > Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star > > > > http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230 > > The tale of a falling star > By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter > > Tuesday, June 09, 2009 > > CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work. > > A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout > Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for money > and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun and > profit. > > In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix > resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade, > and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley would > surren > der its ancient treasures. > > Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of income > for anyone willing to turn over a few stones. > > For this trip he chose a uniquely constructed ruin located on a > windswept, five-acre mesa above West Clear Creek. > > With a view of the entire valley, the outline of its crumbled walls > looked more like a stockade than a home, a nearly square perimeter of > rooms surrounding a common courtyard. > > Latter-day archaeologists believe the pueblo was built by people of > the Salado culture, indigenous to the Salt River Valley, instead of > the native Sinagua whose former homes make up the bulk of the Verde's > ancient architecture. > > A very good day > > One day while searching through rubble in the northeast corner of one > room, Dawson spied a familiar structure -- one that led him to believe > it was going to be a good day -- a very good day. > > The flat slab of sandstone at his feet, he knew to be the cover of a > burial cyst, just the right size to contain the body of a child, along > with whatever treasures the family had packed along for the afterlife. > > Dawson slid the cover back and began clearing the accumulated dirt and > debris. Eighteen inches down he uncovered a layer of feathers. As he > gently scraped away he realized in was a blanket of feathers, wrapped > about the cherished treasure. > > An hour or so later, having cleared out all but the feather blanket > and its contents, he reached20in and gently lifted the bundle. > > It pulled back. > > A second more forceful tug and Dawson realized it was not the > lightweight body of the child he had expected. > > With great difficulty, he wrestled the object from its grave, pulled > back the delicate feather blanket and found himself gazing at a > two-foot long, one-foot wide, five-inch thick, 135-pound, oddly-shaped > hunk of rusting rock. > > Dawson had an idea of what he was looking at, but it was not until > several months later, after it was tested, that he knew for sure. The > object so delicately wrapped and reverently placed in the stone cyst > was a nickel-iron meteorite, or what meteorite collectors call simply, > an iron. > > The second journey > > To date, know one knows how it got there. > > We do know that Dawson sold it in 1939 to one of the preeminent > meteorite researchers and collectors of his day, Harold Harlow > Nininger, who dubbed it the Camp Verde Meteorite. Convention dictated > it be named for the closest post office or geological feature. > > We also know that in 1959 Nininger sold the meteorite, along with more > than 700 others, to Arizona State University, where it is currently > housed in the school's meteorite collection at ASU's Center for > Meteorite Studies. > > What significance the object held to the architecturally unique souls > who once lived on Wingfield Mesa, we will likely never know. > Archaeologists have uncovered feather blankets, and several > meteorites, in archaeological digs. > Dawson is the only one to have > found both of them together. > > Religious significance > > A year after Dawson's find, two pothunters discovered another > meteorite in a stone cyst, or at least 40 to 50 pounds of fragments > thereof, in a ruin east of Flagstaff. It became known as the Winona > Meteorite and is now on display at the museum of Northern Arizona. > > Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as > well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce > Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe, > N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin > near Chihuahua, Mexico. > > As Peter Pilles, archaeologist for the Coconino National Forest, has > observed, when archaeologists are uncertain about an object's use or > importance, they give it religious significance. > > But in the case of the Camp Verde meteorite, with its feather > wrappings and the fact it was stored in the same manner as human > remains, there can be little doubt it was held in reverence. > > Scientific questions > > Lawrence Garvie, director of meteorite collection at ASU, is a > scientist both by nature and by training. But even he can't help but > speculate on the meteorite's unusual shape and significance. > > "It looks to me more like a child than a leaf or an arrowhead, as some > have described it. It has a distinctive head and shoulders, and a very > pronounced backbone that appears to have been rubbed smooth by human > touch. And when struck it has a beautiful ringing sound," Garvie says. > > For scientists like Garvie, and the Center for Meteorites Studies > founder and former director, Carleton Moore, the meteorite also poses > some real world questions, not the least of which is where did it fall > and how did it end up in the ruins of an ancient pueblo. > > About 50,000 years ago, a 150-foot diameter, 300,000-ton, iron and > nickel meteorite crashed into Canyon Diablo outside of modern-day > Winslow, creating Meteor Crater. The impact vaporized at least half > and scattered the remaining pieces across a wide area of the Colorado > Plateau. > > "The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that it does not look like > the other Canyon Diablo irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, > is identical. So the only conclusion we can make is that it is a piece > of Canyon Diablo. > > "But I have always had my doubts. The other great puzzle is also how > did it get so far from Meteor Crater. The nomadic people who lived in > Arizona didn't lug these sorts of things around." > > Garvie and Moore both believe it is possible the Camp Verde meteorite > was a fragment that separated from the main mass of the Canyon Diablo > meteorite as it broke apart in the atmosphere, landing farther south. > > Fact or fiction > > As for the fate of the feather blanket, it was parceled out and lost. > According to a correspondence from Dawson to Nininger, he (Dawson) > gave away pieces of the blanket=2 > 0to collectors over the years. > > It would seem possible that the entire story of the Camp Verde > meteorite is pure fiction, dreamt up by Dawson to make an otherwise > common iron meteorite more valuable, were it not for statements in a > narrative Nininger later wrote. > > Nininger notes he never heard the story of the meteorite's discovery > until he came to Phoenix to make the purchase. There is also the fact > that he bought it for what he described as no more than "the price > usually paid for Canyon Diablo irons ($0.50 per pound)." > > Lastly, in April 1940, at Nininger's request, Dawson brought him to > Camp Verde to see the pueblo and search for feathers or the remains of > the cyst. > > "We hunted the long line of obscure ruins until he reached the > crumbled walls of a small room, in the corner of which was a slight > depression and several flat stones protruding from the drifted dust > and debris. > > "Digging out the filling of dust and weeds failed to reveal a shred of > the feather cloth wrapping, but this was hardly surprising...We > gathered the flat stones and made several trips down the steep slope > to the car and back again," Nininger states. > > Final journey > > The ancient owners of the Camp Verde meteorite may or may not have > lugged it around in their travels, but Nininger did. For seven years > following its purchase, he continued to search the planet for what had > fallen from the heavens. > > Then in 1946, he quit the road and esta > blished the American Meteorite > Museum on Route 66 near Meteor Crater, where it went on public > display. > > In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his > collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley > for the first time in nearly 800 years. > > Today the Camp Verde meteorite rests prominently on a table with two > dozen other irons, many of which came with the Nininger collection, in > the center of a room containing hundreds of other meteorites from > across the world and, ultimately, beyond. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Wed Jun 10 01:17:35 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:17:35 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 10, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_10_2009.html __________________________ http://www.rocksfromspace.org **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell?s full line of laptops. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222008777x1201444407/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435 8%3Bv) From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jun 10 02:00:53 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:00:53 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Never Before Available- GRIFFITH, TEXAS, Ungrouped Ataxite Message-ID: Hello, Today I am offering a very rare and unusual Ataxite from Texas. The Griffith, Texas Ataxite is ungrouped and is loaded with many rare elements. It is a soft Ataxite compared to others, and was difficult to polish. Many of the slices have inclusions, some very light and hard to see, other distinct. Total weight available is less than 1500 grams. A lot of specimens have gone quickly into institutions and major private collections. I will consider trades on some of the slices, but would prefer to stay with trading for other iron meteorites with this one. Average price depending on size is $10.00 per gram. However, after 10 days the price goes to $15.00 per gram. It really is rare, low total known weight, and not much available. GRIFFITH Ungrouped Ataxite Meteoritical Bulletin Info: Griffith Cochran County, Texas, USA Found 1985, summer Iron, ataxite (ungrouped) A ~6 kg (~13 pound) iron meteorite was found by Daniel de los Santos while he was hoeing in a cotton field. Description (T. McCoy and R. Clarke, SI) and classification (J. Wasson, UCLA): bulk metal composition, Co = 0.73 wt %, Ni = 14.3 wt%, Ga = 0.3 ppm, As = 0.2 ppm, Ir = 10 ppm, Au = 0.06 ppm; composition is similar to group IVB. Specimens: type specimen, 120 g, contact M. Gower, TTech; 83 g plus polished section, SI. This was a difficult meteorite to rescue out of the field! The owner of this meteorite first contacted me a few months ago, telling me that they did indeed have a meteorite and that they wanted to sell it. They gave me enough information to convince me that maybe it was indeed a meteorite. I drove to Texas to check it out. Yes, it was a meteorite and it was already classified too! However, at first the owners only wanted to sell me a small portion of this Ataxite, because they wanted to keep the rest to make jewelry! Yikes. I worked hard to make them understand that there are better meteorites to make jewelry out of. I tried to explain that this meteorite was too rare to make jewelry out of and that there are other meteorites which have been studied and are more plentiful for such an activity. Well, after many hours talking, two trips to Texas and thousands of dollars later, I was able to get them to let this cool and rare Ataxite go free. Many of the slices have gone to major institutions for study and into major private collections. All that is available is in my ebay store and really that is not much! Actually, there is less than 1500 grams available to the collecting community! GO TO EBAY STORE HOME PAGE--- SEARCH GRIFFITH http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From lintonius at earthlink.net Wed Jun 10 04:27:20 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:27:20 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - 535 pound Canyon Diablo relocated References: <8CBB74A7ABF61C3-1760-F85@WEBMAIL-MZ07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8D5E8B2C9BE44204A336C7BB1C19DC71@D190TH71> I'm with you, Doug. The older I get, the less I like change! Very interesting article you posted. Quite revealing. Quite sad. I generally shun gift shops while I'm in National Parks. I'm wishing I would've hung out at Verkamp's though, now. Ironically, I'll be there in 4 days, to take part in the Grand Canyon Star Party. :^) Linton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] - 535 Canyon Diablo relocated Hi Linton, List, How sad! - this smacks of Nininger's closing of his museum at Meteor Crater (Though I am sure the Barringers can identify with it as well). Lowell is the most deserving of institutions, but it looks like the meteorite is now in the part of the visitor center that requires more than a token payment to get in to the complex, whether visitors are interested in seeing the rest the observatory has to offer or not. Now departed is the Verkamps/early Nininger era in Zane Grey's bygone West (whose fiction included references to Meteor Crater). For anyone else like me who gets nostalgic seeing the dying breaths of home brewed cowboy and Indian administration go by the wayside, or the erasure of collective memories tooling down route 66 teaching screaming wide-eyed kids in the back seat learning that travel is so broadening, here's another article related to Linton's post. http://www.santafenewmexican.com/National%20News/Historic-Grand-Canyon-shop-to-close-after-102-years-at-the-rim Trouble with the link? then use this one: http://tinyurl.com/kw8l3e Also, you can't help noticing this part of Linton's linked article: "As to how the Verkamp family ended up with the fragment, Verkamp said, "We don't quite know." " Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Linton Rohr To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 2:10 am Subject: [meteorite-list] - 535 pound Canyon Diablo relocated Nice little specimen moves from Grand Canyon to Lowell Observatory, in Flastaff. http://www.azdailysun.com/articles/2009/06/08/news/20090608_local_197778.txt I wish I had known it was at the Canyon. I've been there numerous times and didn't have a clue it was there Linton. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mexicodoug at aim.com Wed Jun 10 05:09:33 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 05:09:33 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star In-Reply-To: References: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CBB7C24DBBF244-EFC-631@webmail-dh04.sysops.aol.com> Sterling wrote: "So, no, no ancient ruins "yielded" authenticated meteorites. You see, there was this obscure religious cult that took over and tried, with great success, to destroy all traces of any previous religious worship, temples, shrines, relics, and so forth." His Sterling, List, Rob M and Greg H, I asked if anyone could come up with an example of an authentic meteorite being found in any ancient ruins outside the Americas, after reading this great recap of Camp Verde. This really wasn't motivated by religion; more it was just from this exciting type of meteorite recovery in hand making a bridge from the modern world too the past, and because I have become very skeptical of the author of that article apparently using Lawrence Garvie as his source and others' claims, that meteorites have been found in ancient ruins worldwide. Well, if you can't Google up any meteorites found from ruins outside the Americas, so now it is officially independently confirmed at least to me, thank you!! :-) Let me now, raise this one level further: So far, it would seem that the Americas, and in fact, only North America (please correct me if you recall something found in any South American ruins because I can't despite Campo and the real Incan Empire, etc...). Regarding meteorites being found in ancient ruins ... in fact, outside Brenham, Glorieta, Canyon Diablo, Casas Grandes, and Chihuahua - the list seems20to end, unless you add a few more from some mounds in, fine, again, the US, this time its southeast. It ends so abruptly that it feels like I am abysmally missing something big (No, Willamette was not found in any ruins, and it is in US territory anyway)... Maybe I should have added Namibia and Mongolia, Greenland and Siberia? By no means does this need to be restricted to ancient Mediterranean region and Arabian Peninsula, though they get the most lip service. Are the only places meteorites have been found in ancient ruins, then, in North America, between the latitudes of Florida and Ohio? Somehow this is shocking as well as disconcerting with 20/20 meteoritic vision on the past ... Oh, before I forget to mention this, which is another unrelated general comment about the article: this paragraph was really interesting for comparison with Greg's exciting Ocate, NM iron: "The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that it does not look like the other Canyon Diablo irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, is identical. So the only conclusion we can make is that it is a piece of Canyon Diablo." I wonder what Dr. Moore would say regarding Ocate if he had a chance to look at it? To Rob's table I have added the ranges from Buchwald (1975) to show some variation among other researchers /specimens in testing for the two elements Rob identified as potential outliers for a pairing: Ga and Ge. Also from Buchwald are the old results Wasson (1968) showed for Camp Verde though the experimental uncertainties were not listed in the book. You can see the outliers by Rob's method, suddenly seem to be part of the pack just by comparing things holistically rather than assuming test methodology and specific samples tested to have reproducible uniformity. Elem. Ocate, NM Canyon Diablo Diff. Sigma ----- -------------- --------------- ----- ----- Ni 69.9 +/- 0.5 69.2 +/- 1.7 0.7 < 1 Co 0.466 +/- 0.004 0.468 +/- 0.015 0.002 << 1 Ga 71.9 +/- 0.3 83.8 +/- 3.4 11.9 3.2 ***(VB 74 - 81.8, Camp Verde 78)*** Ge 271 +/- 6 322 +/- 19 51 2.0 ***(VB 283 - 324, Camp Verde 322)*** Ir 2.25 +/- 0.04 2.17 +/- 0.07 0.08 < 1 Au 1.60 +/- 0.03 1.57 +/- 0.11 0.03 << 1 As 15.2 +/- 0.3 12.7 +/- 0.7 2.5 2.5 Cu 119 +/- 11 148 +/- 6 29 1.7 W 0.87 +/- 0.08 0.99 +/- .129 0.12 < 1 Re 0.22 +/- 0.02 0.228 +/- 0.027 0.008 << 1 To be clear, IMO if Ocate is indeed a transported Canyon Diablo,it can only be more interesting, and greatly more especially, if the morphology compares favorably to Camp Verde. Has the Ocate mass photo been posted yet? I hope the Canadian classifiers can share their analytical notes on material and methods, with Wasson, Moore and Co., and appreciate their work with Greg in getting this interesting find done relatively quickly. Best wishes, Doug ---- -Original Message----- From: Sterling K. Webb To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Mexicodoug Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:57 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star Everybody wants a meteorite for their Temple, ya know?? ? ? Sterling K. Webb? --------------------------------------------------------------------? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" ? To: ? Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:40 PM? Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star? ? > Great article, though this paragraph about other "meteors" being found > need editing:? >? > "Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as? > well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce? > Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe,? > N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin? > near Chihuahua, Mexico."? >? > The Incas, of course are not from Chihuahua, but a good fraction of a > world away in Peru ... The author is referring to the Paquim? pueblo > of the probably Anasazi Pueblo type Indians (Like from the US > southwest), though they may have had a tad more of Aztec influence. > And the meteorite is from INSIDE Chihuahua (the state), and NEAR > Nuevas Casas Grandes. It was found far from Chih uahua City actually > much closer to Arizona which is just 93 miles away. Political > boundaries...bah :-)? >? > Does anyone recall what other ancient ruins yielded authenticated > meteorites outside the Americas as claiming by the article they are > found "all around the world in ancient ruins". I am thinking Greece, > Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes to mind. And the Japanese > one was certainly not found in ruins.? >? > Another tear shed today after reading about the other Grand Canyon > fragment...? >? > "In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his? > collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley? > for the first time in nearly 800 yea? > rs."? >? > One (at least me) wonders whether the "800 year buried piece of Canyon > Diablo (Camp Verde piece)" was ever at all "on display" on the Native > American Sinagua or if it was placed to rest with that stone > ceremonially out of sight with respects being rendered specifically > NOT to be displayed, I am not sure how this statement about displaying > could be made in the article with any accuracy, and suppose the author > really got carried away trying to say the Camp Verde piece is on > display in the Verde Vally of AZ...but not sure; thanks for the post!? >? > Best wishes,? > Doug? >? >? > -----Original Mess age-----? > From: Michael Groetz ? > To: Meteorite List ? > Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:37 pm? > Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star? >? >? >? > http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230? >? > The tale of a falling star? > By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter? >? > Tuesday, June 09, 2009? >? > CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work.? >? > A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout? > Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for money? > and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun and? > profit.? >? > In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix? > resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade,? > and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley would? > surren? > der its ancient treasures.? >? > Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of income? > for anyone willing to turn over a few stones.? >? > For this tri From gmhupe at htn.net Wed Jun 10 08:09:02 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:09:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Ocate" and "3-Layer Cake~A Visual Treat" LAST Pieces on eBay - AD Message-ID: Dear List Members, I have loaded on eBay the final specimens of two different and striking meteorites for 10-Day auctions. 1) "Ocate", the New iron from New Mexico has been selling well and only five of 15 pieces remain available. Priced well for a New American iron! 2) NWA 5407, "3-Layer Cake ~ A Visual Treat", an awesome L5 Impact Melt Breccia. This has never been made available publicly yet. I have never seen a melt with three distinct zones of melt in a single slice!! The light area on top looks like icing on top of the cake! All of these can be found under eBay seller, NaturesVault, or by clicking here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Here is a list of the direct links for each individual auction: NWA 5407 "3-Layer Cake ~ A Visual Treat" L5-IMB (So nice, it is beyond description!): 48.6g cs Main Mass http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212043500 43.8g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342771871 40.5g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212044219 40.1g end cut http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212044617 38.2g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342772906 27.4g ps http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342773327 18.5g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212045858 Ocate IAB Iron New Mexico (all slices are about 3mm thick): 910g end cut http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212047356 208.2g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212048022 191g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212048345 162.9g ps http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342776849 162.8g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212049183 cs - complete slice ps - part slice These are the very last I have of each of these beautiful meteorites. If you are interested, you may not want to wait until the last minute to bid, there will not be another chance to get one of these once they are gone! These have all been put up for 10-Day eBay auctions and I will not have too many chances to answer questions while the auctions are running. These will end June 19th. Click here to see all auctions at one click: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Best regards, and "Thank You" for bidding and/or looking! Good Luck! Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From almitt at kconline.com Wed Jun 10 08:29:33 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:29:33 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Lafayette, Indiana Martian Meteorite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Greetings, I currently have a Lafayette Martian Meteorite specimen listed on eBay. This is a fairly large fragment compared to the ultra small specks that were listed in the past. Perhaps 20 or 30 times larger. Only 30 some grams of this ultra rare Martian are available to collectors. A total of 767 grams are in three museums and I don't think any trades have taken place. Lafayette is a rarer Nakhalite type similar to the fall in Nakhla, Egypt that is alleged to have hit a dog. Here is a link to the auction: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet My best to all. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites From almitt at kconline.com Wed Jun 10 08:32:35 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:32:35 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Lafayette, Indiana Martian Meteorite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61EEE0F76DFA46199A41356C2BC66A68@StarmanPC> Greetings, I currently have a Lafayette Martian Meteorite specimen listed on eBay. This is a fairly large fragment compared to the ultra small specks that were listed in the past. Perhaps 20 or 30 times larger. Only 30 some grams of this ultra rare Martian are available to collectors. A total of 767 grams are in three museums and I don't think any trades have taken place. Lafayette is a rarer Nakhalite type similar to the fall in Nakhla, Egypt that is alleged to have hit a dog. Here is a link to the auction: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet My best to all. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites From GeoZay at aol.com Wed Jun 10 09:09:56 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:09:56 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star Message-ID: I haven't been following this thread very closely, but here's a maybe. A few years ago I recall watching a program about the Egyptian Pyramids that mentioned some kind of instrument made from a meteorite. I believe it was used in some kind of religious rites. Would by any chance this fit in with whats being looked for here? GeoZay . >>No meteorite survivors of Greece and Rome are known. However, there are pieces of the "Black Stone" of the Kaa'ba, a meteorite, in Turkey (by a List memeber): http://kauscience.k12.hi.us/~ted/Blackstone/hajar-al-aswad.htm>> **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell?s full line of laptops. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222008777x1201444407/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435 8%3Bv) From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Wed Jun 10 09:59:38 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:59:38 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star In-Reply-To: <8CBB7C24DBBF244-EFC-631@webmail-dh04.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> <8CBB7C24DBBF244-EFC-631@webmail-dh04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <200906101358.n5ADwgnA012120@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi Doug, Didn't you forget Winona ? See here a quite interesting read: http://sped2work.tripod.com/elden.html My best, Zelimir At 11:09 10/06/2009, Mexicodoug wrote: >Sterling wrote: > >"So, no, no ancient ruins "yielded" >authenticated meteorites. You see, there was >this obscure religious cult that took over and >tried, with great success, to destroy all traces >of any previous religious worship, temples, shrines, relics, and so forth." > >His Sterling, List, Rob M and Greg H, > >I asked if anyone could come up with an example >of an authentic meteorite being found in any >ancient ruins outside the Americas, after >reading this great recap of Camp Verde. This >really wasn't motivated by religion; more it was >just from this exciting type of meteorite >recovery in hand making a bridge from the modern >world too the past, and because I have become >very skeptical of the author of that article >apparently using Lawrence Garvie as his source >and others' claims, that meteorites have been >found in ancient ruins worldwide. Well, if you >can't Google up any meteorites found from ruins >outside the Americas, so now it is officially >independently confirmed at least to me, thank >you!! :-) Let me now, raise this one level further: > >So far, it would seem that the Americas, and in >fact, only North America (please correct me if >you recall something found in any South American >ruins because I can't despite Campo and the real Incan Empire, etc...). > >Regarding meteorites being found in ancient >ruins ... in fact, outside Brenham, Glorieta, >Canyon Diablo, Casas Grandes, and Chihuahua - >the list seems20to end, unless you add a few >more from some mounds in, fine, again, the US, >this time its southeast. It ends so abruptly >that it feels like I am abysmally missing >something big (No, Willamette was not found in >any ruins, and it is in US territory anyway)... >Maybe I should have added Namibia and Mongolia, >Greenland and Siberia? By no means does this >need to be restricted to ancient Mediterranean >region and Arabian Peninsula, though they get the most lip service. > >Are the only places meteorites have been found >in ancient ruins, then, in North America, >between the latitudes of Florida and Ohio? >Somehow this is shocking as well as >disconcerting with 20/20 meteoritic vision on the past ... > >Oh, before I forget to mention this, which is >another unrelated general comment about the >article: this paragraph was really interesting >for comparison with Greg's exciting Ocate, NM iron: > >"The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that >it does not look like the other Canyon Diablo >irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, is >identical. So the only conclusion we can make is >that it is a piece of Canyon Diablo." > >I wonder what Dr. Moore would say regarding >Ocate if he had a chance to look at it? > >To Rob's table I have added the ranges from >Buchwald (1975) to show some variation among >other researchers /specimens in testing for the >two elements Rob identified as potential outliers for a pairing: Ga and >Ge. Also from Buchwald are the old results >Wasson (1968) showed for Camp Verde though the >experimental uncertainties were not listed in >the book. You can see the outliers by Rob's >method, suddenly seem to be part of the pack >just by comparing things holistically rather >than assuming test methodology and specific >samples tested to have reproducible uniformity. > >Elem. Ocate, NM Canyon Diablo Diff. Sigma >----- -------------- --------------- ----- ----- >Ni 69.9 +/- 0.5 69.2 +/- 1.7 0.7 < 1 >Co 0.466 +/- 0.004 0.468 +/- 0.015 0.002 << 1 > >Ga 71.9 +/- 0.3 83.8 +/- 3.4 11.9 3.2 >***(VB 74 - 81.8, Camp Verde 78)*** > >Ge 271 +/- 6 322 +/- 19 51 2.0 >***(VB 283 - 324, Camp Verde 322)*** > >Ir 2.25 +/- 0.04 2.17 +/- 0.07 0.08 < 1 >Au 1.60 +/- 0.03 1.57 +/- 0.11 0.03 << 1 >As 15.2 +/- 0.3 12.7 +/- 0.7 2.5 2.5 >Cu 119 +/- 11 148 +/- 6 29 1.7 >W 0.87 +/- 0.08 0.99 +/- .129 0.12 < 1 >Re 0.22 +/- 0.02 0.228 +/- 0.027 0.008 << 1 > >To be clear, IMO if Ocate is indeed a >transported Canyon Diablo,it can only be more >interesting, and greatly more especially, if the >morphology compares favorably to Camp Verde. Has >the Ocate mass photo been posted yet? I hope the >Canadian classifiers can share their analytical >notes on material and methods, with Wasson, >Moore and Co., and appreciate their work with >Greg in getting this interesting find done relatively quickly. > > >Best wishes, Doug > > > >---- >-Original Message----- >From: Sterling K. Webb >To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Mexicodoug >Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:57 pm >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star > >Everybody wants a meteorite for their Temple, ya know?? >? >? >Sterling K. Webb? >--------------------------------------------------------------------? >----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" ? >To: ? >Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:40 PM? >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star? >? >>Great article, though this paragraph about other "meteors" being >found > need editing:? >>? >>"Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as? >>well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce? >>Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe,? >>N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca >ruin? >>near Chihuahua, Mexico."? >>? >>The Incas, of course are not from Chihuahua, but a good fraction of a > > world away in Peru ... The author is > referring to the Paquim?? pueblo > of the > probably Anasazi Pueblo type Indians (Like from > the US > southwest), though they may have had a > tad more of Aztec influence. > And the > meteorite is from INSIDE Chihuahua (the state), > and NEAR > Nuevas Casas Grandes. It was found far from Chih >uahua City actually > much closer to Arizona >which is just 93 miles away. Political > boundaries...bah :-)? >>? >>Does anyone recall what other ancient ruins yielded authenticated > >meteorites outside the Americas as claiming by >the article they are > found "all around the >world in ancient ruins". I am thinking Greece, > >Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes to >mind. And the Japanese > one was certainly not found in ruins.? >>? >>Another tear shed today after reading about the other Grand Canyon > >fragment...? >>? >>"In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his? >>collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley? >>for the first time in nearly 800 yea? >>rs."? >>? >>One (at least me) wonders whether the "800 year buried piece of >Canyon > Diablo (Camp Verde piece)" was ever at >all "on display" on the Native > American >Sinagua or if it was placed to rest with that >stone > ceremonially out of sight with respects >being rendered specifically > NOT to be >displayed, I am not sure how this statement >about displaying > could be made in the article >with any accuracy, and suppose the author > >really got carried away trying to say the Camp >Verde piece is on > display in the Verde Vally >of AZ...but not sure; thanks for the post!? >>? >>Best wishes,? >>Doug? >>? >>? >>-----Original Mess >age-----? >>From: Michael Groetz ? >>To: Meteorite List ? >>Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:37 pm? >>Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star? >>? >>? >>? >http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230? >>? >>The tale of a falling star? >>By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter? >>? >>Tuesday, June 09, 2009? >>? >>CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work.? >>? >>A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout? >>Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for >money? >>and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun >and? >>profit.? >>? >>In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix? >>resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade,? >>and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley would? >>surren? >>der its ancient treasures.? >>? >>Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of >income? >>for anyone willing to turn over a few stones.? >>? >>For this tri >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Wed Jun 10 10:20:11 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] ad : sale of a unique lodranite nwa4448 Message-ID: <416362.1752.qm@web62006.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hi all? and glusgot here is one of the first lodranite found in nwa classified by doctr ted bunch there is 3 years; its nwa 4448? a 57 gr stone very crystalised and unique in grain size and composotion.. enjoy photo http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/ aziz the habibiest Northwest Africa 4448 ?? Algeria ?? Found 2005 ?? Achondrite (lodranite) History and physical description: A 64 g dark brown stone with little fusion crust was found in Western Algeria in 2005 and purchased in Erfoud, Morocco in August 2006. Petrography (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU: A. Irving, UWS): Fine-to medium-grained stone (0.2 to 1.3 mm in dia., mean = 0.83 mm) with recrystallized polygonal and poikilitic textures (host orthopyroxene encloses olivine). Modal contents are (in vol. %): orthopyroxene, 68; olivine, 15; metal, 13; troilite, pyrrhotite, chromite, merrillite, and chlor-apatite, 4.0. Weathering grade is low and shock level is S2.? Geochemistry: Orthopyroxene (Fs11.2Wo2.2, FeO/MnO = 18); olivine (Fa10.2, FeO/MnO = 20); metal, Ni = 5.4 wt %; pyrrhotite, Ni = 2.36 wt %; troilite, Ni = 0.56 wt %; chromite, cr# = 80; chlor-apatite (CaO = 55.6 wt %, P2O 5= 42.4 wt %, Cl = 2.4 wt %); merrillite (CaO = 47.5 wt %, P2O5 = 46.3 wt %, MgO = 3.7 wt % and Na2O = 2.9 wt %). Oxygen isotopes: (D. Rumble, CIW):? a cleaned and metal-free sample was analyzed by laser fluorination. Replicate analyses are, respectively: D17O = -1.3291 and -1.3534, d17O = 0.539 and 0.442, and d18O = 3.551 and 3.413. Classification:? Achondrite (lodranite). Type specimens habibi aziz? imca 6220 box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 10:35:23 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:35:23 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star In-Reply-To: References: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Great post Sterling! Thanks for the links too. :) On 6/10/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > Doug said: >> I am thinking [of] Greece, Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes >> to mind. > > I'm sure Doug named those places because > there were famous meteorites of religious > significance associated with sites there. While > it is true that their whereabouts is presently > unknown [and will likely remain that way), there's > no doubt whatsoever about their existence. > > So, no, no ancient ruins "yielded" authenticated > meteorites. You see, there was this obscure > religious cult that took over and tried, with great > success, to destroy all traces of any previous > religious worship, temples, shrines, relics, and > so forth. > > No meteorite survivors of Greece and Rome are > known. > > However, there are pieces of the "Black Stone" of > the Kaa'ba, a meteorite, in Turkey (by a List memeber): > http://kauscience.k12.hi.us/~ted/Blackstone/hajar-al-aswad.htm > > The meteoritic nature (or non-nature) of a famous > Temple stone is discussed by another List member: > http://imca.repetti.net/articles/IMCA-Insights4.htm > > Evidence in coinage of Temple stones, some of which > were meteorites, can be found here (more List members): > http://www.pibburns.com/catastro/metstamp.htm#classicalcoins > > A discussion of various meteoritic Temple stones can be > found here (Popular ASstronomy, 1936, at ADS): > http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1936PA.....44..514W/0000514.000.html > > Traditionally, the Classical Temple stones were > "nose-cone" shaped. In a word, oriented (if they were > meteorites). There is a fascinating discussion of why > the baetyls that are found are not actually meteorites. > The explanation? Lots of shrines, but not so many > meteorites! > http://www.ancients.info/forums/showthread.php?t=845 > > Everybody wants a meteorite for their Temple, ya know? > > > > Sterling K. Webb > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mexicodoug" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:40 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star > > >> Great article, though this paragraph about other "meteors" being found >> need editing: >> >> "Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as >> well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce >> Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe, >> N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin >> near Chihuahua, Mexico." >> >> The Incas, of course are not from Chihuahua, but a good fraction of a >> world away in Peru ... The author is referring to the Paquim? pueblo >> of the probably Anasazi Pueblo type Indians (Like from the US >> southwest), though they may have had a tad more of Aztec influence. >> And the meteorite is from INSIDE Chihuahua (the state), and NEAR >> Nuevas Casas Grandes. It was found far from Chihuahua City actually >> much closer to Arizona which is just 93 miles away. Political >> boundaries...bah :-) >> >> Does anyone recall what other ancient ruins yielded authenticated >> meteorites outside the Americas as claiming by the article they are >> found "all around the world in ancient ruins". I am thinking Greece, >> Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes to mind. And the Japanese >> one was certainly not found in ruins. >> >> Another tear shed today after reading about the other Grand Canyon >> fragment... >> >> "In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his >> collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley >> for the first time in nearly 800 yea >> rs." >> >> One (at least me) wonders whether the "800 year buried piece of Canyon >> Diablo (Camp Verde piece)" was ever at all "on display" on the Native >> American Sinagua or if it was placed to rest with that stone >> ceremonially out of sight with respects being rendered specifically >> NOT to be displayed, I am not sure how this statement about displaying >> could be made in the article with any accuracy, and suppose the author >> really got carried away trying to say the Camp Verde piece is on >> display in the Verde Vally of AZ...but not sure; thanks for the post! >> >> Best wishes, >> Doug >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Michael Groetz >> To: Meteorite List >> Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:37 pm >> Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star >> >> >> >> http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230 >> >> The tale of a falling star >> By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter >> >> Tuesday, June 09, 2009 >> >> CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work. >> >> A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout >> Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for money >> and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun and >> profit. >> >> In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix >> resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade, >> and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley would >> surren >> der its ancient treasures. >> >> Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of income >> for anyone willing to turn over a few stones. >> >> For this trip he chose a uniquely constructed ruin located on a >> windswept, five-acre mesa above West Clear Creek. >> >> With a view of the entire valley, the outline of its crumbled walls >> looked more like a stockade than a home, a nearly square perimeter of >> rooms surrounding a common courtyard. >> >> Latter-day archaeologists believe the pueblo was built by people of >> the Salado culture, indigenous to the Salt River Valley, instead of >> the native Sinagua whose former homes make up the bulk of the Verde's >> ancient architecture. >> >> A very good day >> >> One day while searching through rubble in the northeast corner of one >> room, Dawson spied a familiar structure -- one that led him to believe >> it was going to be a good day -- a very good day. >> >> The flat slab of sandstone at his feet, he knew to be the cover of a >> burial cyst, just the right size to contain the body of a child, along >> with whatever treasures the family had packed along for the afterlife. >> >> Dawson slid the cover back and began clearing the accumulated dirt and >> debris. Eighteen inches down he uncovered a layer of feathers. As he >> gently scraped away he realized in was a blanket of feathers, wrapped >> about the cherished treasure. >> >> An hour or so later, having cleared out all but the feather blanket >> and its contents, he reached20in and gently lifted the bundle. >> >> It pulled back. >> >> A second more forceful tug and Dawson realized it was not the >> lightweight body of the child he had expected. >> >> With great difficulty, he wrestled the object from its grave, pulled >> back the delicate feather blanket and found himself gazing at a >> two-foot long, one-foot wide, five-inch thick, 135-pound, oddly-shaped >> hunk of rusting rock. >> >> Dawson had an idea of what he was looking at, but it was not until >> several months later, after it was tested, that he knew for sure. The >> object so delicately wrapped and reverently placed in the stone cyst >> was a nickel-iron meteorite, or what meteorite collectors call simply, >> an iron. >> >> The second journey >> >> To date, know one knows how it got there. >> >> We do know that Dawson sold it in 1939 to one of the preeminent >> meteorite researchers and collectors of his day, Harold Harlow >> Nininger, who dubbed it the Camp Verde Meteorite. Convention dictated >> it be named for the closest post office or geological feature. >> >> We also know that in 1959 Nininger sold the meteorite, along with more >> than 700 others, to Arizona State University, where it is currently >> housed in the school's meteorite collection at ASU's Center for >> Meteorite Studies. >> >> What significance the object held to the architecturally unique souls >> who once lived on Wingfield Mesa, we will likely never know. >> Archaeologists have uncovered feather blankets, and several >> meteorites, in archaeological digs. >> Dawson is the only one to have >> found both of them together. >> >> Religious significance >> >> A year after Dawson's find, two pothunters discovered another >> meteorite in a stone cyst, or at least 40 to 50 pounds of fragments >> thereof, in a ruin east of Flagstaff. It became known as the Winona >> Meteorite and is now on display at the museum of Northern Arizona. >> >> Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as >> well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce >> Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe, >> N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin >> near Chihuahua, Mexico. >> >> As Peter Pilles, archaeologist for the Coconino National Forest, has >> observed, when archaeologists are uncertain about an object's use or >> importance, they give it religious significance. >> >> But in the case of the Camp Verde meteorite, with its feather >> wrappings and the fact it was stored in the same manner as human >> remains, there can be little doubt it was held in reverence. >> >> Scientific questions >> >> Lawrence Garvie, director of meteorite collection at ASU, is a >> scientist both by nature and by training. But even he can't help but >> speculate on the meteorite's unusual shape and significance. >> >> "It looks to me more like a child than a leaf or an arrowhead, as some >> have described it. It has a distinctive head and shoulders, and a very >> pronounced backbone that appears to have been rubbed smooth by human >> touch. And when struck it has a beautiful ringing sound," Garvie says. >> >> For scientists like Garvie, and the Center for Meteorites Studies >> founder and former director, Carleton Moore, the meteorite also poses >> some real world questions, not the least of which is where did it fall >> and how did it end up in the ruins of an ancient pueblo. >> >> About 50,000 years ago, a 150-foot diameter, 300,000-ton, iron and >> nickel meteorite crashed into Canyon Diablo outside of modern-day >> Winslow, creating Meteor Crater. The impact vaporized at least half >> and scattered the remaining pieces across a wide area of the Colorado >> Plateau. >> >> "The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that it does not look like >> the other Canyon Diablo irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, >> is identical. So the only conclusion we can make is that it is a piece >> of Canyon Diablo. >> >> "But I have always had my doubts. The other great puzzle is also how >> did it get so far from Meteor Crater. The nomadic people who lived in >> Arizona didn't lug these sorts of things around." >> >> Garvie and Moore both believe it is possible the Camp Verde meteorite >> was a fragment that separated from the main mass of the Canyon Diablo >> meteorite as it broke apart in the atmosphere, landing farther south. >> >> Fact or fiction >> >> As for the fate of the feather blanket, it was parceled out and lost. >> According to a correspondence from Dawson to Nininger, he (Dawson) >> gave away pieces of the blanket=2 >> 0to collectors over the years. >> >> It would seem possible that the entire story of the Camp Verde >> meteorite is pure fiction, dreamt up by Dawson to make an otherwise >> common iron meteorite more valuable, were it not for statements in a >> narrative Nininger later wrote. >> >> Nininger notes he never heard the story of the meteorite's discovery >> until he came to Phoenix to make the purchase. There is also the fact >> that he bought it for what he described as no more than "the price >> usually paid for Canyon Diablo irons ($0.50 per pound)." >> >> Lastly, in April 1940, at Nininger's request, Dawson brought him to >> Camp Verde to see the pueblo and search for feathers or the remains of >> the cyst. >> >> "We hunted the long line of obscure ruins until he reached the >> crumbled walls of a small room, in the corner of which was a slight >> depression and several flat stones protruding from the drifted dust >> and debris. >> >> "Digging out the filling of dust and weeds failed to reveal a shred of >> the feather cloth wrapping, but this was hardly surprising...We >> gathered the flat stones and made several trips down the steep slope >> to the car and back again," Nininger states. >> >> Final journey >> >> The ancient owners of the Camp Verde meteorite may or may not have >> lugged it around in their travels, but Nininger did. For seven years >> following its purchase, he continued to search the planet for what had >> fallen from the heavens. >> >> Then in 1946, he quit the road and esta >> blished the American Meteorite >> Museum on Route 66 near Meteor Crater, where it went on public >> display. >> >> In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his >> collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley >> for the first time in nearly 800 years. >> >> Today the Camp Verde meteorite rests prominently on a table with two >> dozen other irons, many of which came with the Nininger collection, in >> the center of a room containing hundreds of other meteorites from >> across the world and, ultimately, beyond. >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From paul at meteorite.com Wed Jun 10 11:47:51 2009 From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:47:51 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-Times - June Issue Is Now Up Message-ID: <4A2FD5A7.6050502@meteorite.com> Dear List, The June issue of Meteorite-Times if now up. http://www.meteorite-times.com/ Enjoy, Paul and Jim From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Wed Jun 10 17:31:23 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Well okay then Message-ID: <798653.11443.qm@web110609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Marc, It is just that every newspaper article and every interview usually touches on the fact that collectors get all the material and science is left in the dark. I am proving the point that commercial and private collectors actually provide the bulk of the material to science. We have likely recovered over 20 stones from this fall, thankfully before any precipitation, so almost all stones (except the bird crap pieces and the dog-slobber stone) are pristine. I rapidly donated a piece I found to TCU, am working on getting some more into another major museum collecdti --- On Wed, 3/4/09, Fries, Marc D wrote: From: Fries, Marc D Subject: [meteorite-list] Well okay then To: "Meteorite List" Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 9:59 AM Howdy all I?ve received a few ...em... ?spirited? responses to my last email that tell me that it didn?t exactly read the way I intended. I wasn?t trying to be a hero because I bought a plane ticket, I was trying to say that traveling on ?your own dime? isn?t what scientists are used to doing. Someone had made the comment that there were no scientists to be seen at West, and I agree that is ridiculous. Scientists travel to Antarctica every year to collect meteorites, but no one could be bothered to fly to Austin!? How many people who spend their lives studying meteorites just passed up a chance to see an actual, fresh strewn field?? (not to mention the kolaches) Funny thing is, I was actually agreeing with some of the nasty-grams I?ve received. Sounds like I touched a nerve. Can I suggest that y?all spare me the wrath, and direct it instead at the scientists who weren?t actually there? Cheers, MDF ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From majesticmeteorites at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 18:35:53 2009 From: majesticmeteorites at gmail.com (Whitney Riner) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:35:53 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Win a piece of moon rock Message-ID: New Scientist is having a contest to give away a lunar meteorite in celebration of the 40th anniversary of Apollo: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17213-competition-win-a-piece-of-moon-rock (1.4g in two pieces due to additional authentication--apparently detailed in the June 20 issue) -Whitney From drtanuki at yahoo.com Wed Jun 10 18:49:14 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] test only Message-ID: <814300.65768.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> test From mexicodoug at aim.com Wed Jun 10 19:37:02 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:37:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star In-Reply-To: <200906101358.n5ADwgnA012120@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> References: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com><8CBB7C24DBBF244-EFC-631@webmail-dh04.sysops.aol.com> <200906101358.n5ADwgnA012120@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <8CBB83B7C6A7BEE-F34-18C7@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> Zelimir wrote: "Didn't you forget Winona ?" Hello Zelimir !!!!!! Thanks, You have a great sense of humor :-) Yes, everyone from the Rolling Stones to Disney is now reminding me, "DON'T FORGET WINONA!" How careless of me, in honor the Route 66, and the Mother Road to ancient ruins with meteorites, like the song, Winona may be out of sequence, but not forgotten..., but the crown jewel of ancient ruins as shown in Zelimir's great link... http://sped2work.tripod.com/elden.html Hopefully the road to Ensisheim is easier than whats left of '66, Kind wishes, Doug PS: If you don't know the song, get hip with this timely tip, if you ever plan to Motor West to go meteorite hunting. Nininger was right.. My favorite rendition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT1rPSGeJ38 Here is a picture of the old bridge at Winona when "Don't forget Winona" is sung: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbCdiWZP3Wk And here are three more: for the oldersters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBmr5EuwCEQ youngersters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tpjKYe0Big and anyone whole likes Spanish Argentine girls: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plvMedxlc-A PPS, In honor of the town of Winona (I've already sent the Nininger correction to the webmaster abou it being Nininger's and not Barringer's museum) here is a fine history of the settement that gave the legendary meteorite its name. http://www.legendsofamerica.com/AZ-BeyondWinslow.html =0 A -----Original Message----- From: Zelimir Gabelica To: Mexicodoug ; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 8:59 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star Hi Doug,? ? Didn't you forget Winona ?? ? See here a quite interesting read:? ? http://sped2work.tripod.com/elden.html? ? My best,? ? Zelimir? ? At 11:09 10/06/2009, Mexicodoug wrote:? >Sterling wrote:? >? >"So, no, no ancient ruins "yielded" >authenticated meteorites. You see, there was >this obscure religious cult that took over and >tried, with great success, to destroy all traces >of any previous religious worship, temples, shrines, relics, and so forth."? >? >His Sterling, List, Rob M and Greg H,? >? >I asked if anyone could come up with an example >of an authentic meteorite being found in any >ancient ruins outside the Americas, after >reading this great recap of Camp Verde. This >really wasn't motivated by religion; more it was >just from this exciting type of meteorite >recovery in hand making a bridge from the modern >world too the past, and because I have become >very skeptical of the author of that article >apparently using Lawrence Garvie as his source >and others' claims, that meteorites have been >found in ancient ruins worldwide. Well, if y ou >can't Google up any meteorites found from ruins >outside the Americas, so now it is officially >independently confirmed at least to me, thank >you!! :-) Let me now, raise this one level further:? >? >So far, it would seem that the Americas, and in >fact, only North America (please correct me if >you recall something found in any South American >ruins because I can't despite Campo and the real Incan Empire, etc...).? >? >Regarding meteorites being found in ancient >ruins ... in fact, outside Brenham, Glorieta, >Canyon Diablo, Casas Grandes, and Chihuahua - >the list seems20to end, unless you add a few >more from some mounds in, fine, again, the US, >this time its southeast. It ends so abruptly >that it feels like I am abysmally missing >something big (No, Willamette was not found in >any ruins, and it is in US territory anyway)... >Maybe I should have added Namibia and Mongolia, >Greenland and Siberia? By no means does this >need to be restricted to ancient Mediterranean >region and Arabian Peninsula, though they get the most lip service.? >? >Are the only places meteorites have been found >in ancient ruins, then, in North America, >between the latitudes of Florida and Ohio? >Somehow this is shocking as well as >disconcerting with 20/20 meteoritic vision on the past ...? >? >Oh, before I forget to mention this, which is >another unrelated general comment about the >article:=2 0this paragraph was really interesting >for comparison with Greg's exciting Ocate, NM iron:? >? >"The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that >it does not look like the other Canyon Diablo >irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, is >identical. So the only conclusion we can make is >that it is a piece of Canyon Diablo."? >? >I wonder what Dr. Moore would say regarding >Ocate if he had a chance to look at it?? >? >To Rob's table I have added the ranges from >Buchwald (1975) to show some variation among >other researchers /specimens in testing for the >two elements Rob identified as potential outliers for a pairing: Ga and? >Ge. Also from Buchwald are the old results >Wasson (1968) showed for Camp Verde though the >experimental uncertainties were not listed in >the book. You can see the outliers by Rob's >method, suddenly seem to be part of the pack >just by comparing things holistically rather >than assuming test methodology and specific >samples tested to have reproducible uniformity.? >? >Elem. Ocate, NM Canyon Diablo Diff. Sigma? >----- -------------- --------------- ----- -----? >Ni 69.9 +/- 0.5 69.2 +/- 1.7 0.7 < 1? >Co 0.466 +/- 0.004 0.468 +/- 0.015 0.002 << 1? >? >Ga 71.9 +/- 0.3 83.8 +/- 3.4 11.9 3.2? >***(VB 74 - 81.8, Camp Verde 78)***? >? >Ge 271 +/- 6 322 +/- 19 51 2.0? >***(VB 283 - 324, Camp Verde 322)*** >? >Ir 2.25 +/- 0.04 2.17 +/- 0.07 0.08 < 1? >Au 1.60 +/- 0.03 1.57 +/- 0.11 0.03 << 1? >As 15.2 +/- 0.3 12.7 +/- 0.7 2.5 2.5? >Cu 119 +/- 11 148 +/- 6 29 1.7? >W 0.87 +/- 0.08 0.99 +/- .129 0.12 < 1? >Re 0.22 +/- 0.02 0.228 +/- 0.027 0.008 << 1? >? >To be clear, IMO if Ocate is indeed a >transported Canyon Diablo,it can only be more >interesting, and greatly more especially, if the >morphology compares favorably to Camp Verde. Has >the Ocate mass photo been posted yet? I hope the >Canadian classifiers can share their analytical >notes on material and methods, with Wasson, >Moore and Co., and appreciate their work with >Greg in getting this interesting find done relatively quickly.? >? >? >Best wishes, Doug? >? >? >? >----? >-Original Message-----? >From: Sterling K. Webb ? >To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Mexicodoug ? >Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:57 pm? >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star? >? >Everybody wants a meteorite for their Temple, ya know??? >?? >?? >Sterling K. Webb?? >--------------------------------------------------------------------?? >----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" ?? >To: ?? >Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:40 PM?? >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star?? >?? >>Great article, though this paragraph about other "meteors" being? >found > need editing:?? >>?? >>"Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as?? >>well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce?? >>Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe,?? >>N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca? >ruin?? >>near Chihuahua, Mexico."?? >>?? >>The Incas, of course are not from Chihuahua, but a good fraction of a? > > world away in Peru ... The author is > referring to the Paquim?? pueblo > of the > probably Anasazi Pueblo type Indians (Like from > the US > southwest), though they may have had a > tad more of Aztec influence. > And the > meteorite is from INSIDE Chihuahua (the state), > and NEAR > Nuevas Casas Grandes. It was found far from Chih? >uahua City actually > much closer to Arizona >which is just 93 miles away. Political > boundaries...bah :-)?? >>?? >>Does anyone recall what other ancient ruins yielded authenticated >? >meteorites outside the Americas as claiming by >the article they are > found "all around the >world in ancient ruins". I am thinking Greece, > >Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes to >mind. And the Japanese > one was certainly not found in ruins.C3? >>?? >>Another tear shed today after reading about the other Grand Canyon >? >fragment...?? >>?? >>"In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his?? >>collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley?? >>for the first time in nearly 800 yea?? >>rs."?? >>?? >>One (at least me) wonders whether the "800 year buried piece of? >Canyon > Diablo (Camp Verde piece)" was ever at >all "on display" on the Native > American >Sinagua or if it was placed to rest with that >stone > ceremonially out of sight with respects >being rendered specifically > NOT to be >displayed, I am not sure how this statement >about displaying > could be made in the article >with any accuracy, and suppose the author > >really got carried away trying to say the Camp >Verde piece is on > display in the Verde Vally >of AZ...but not sure; thanks for the post!?? >>?? >>Best wishes,?? >>Doug?? >>?? >>?? >>-----Original Mess? >age-----?? >>From: Michael Groetz ?? >>To: Meteorite List ?? >>Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:37 pm?? >>Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star?? >>?? >>?? >>?? >http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230 ?? >>?? >>The tale of a falling star?? >>By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter?? >>?? >>Tuesday, June 09, 2009?? >>?? >>CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work.?? >>?? >>A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout?? >>Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for? >money?? >>and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun? >and?? >>profit.?? >>?? >>In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix?? >>resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade,?? >>and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley would?? >>surren?? >>der its ancient treasures.?? >>?? >>Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of? >income?? >>for anyone willing to turn over a few stones.?? >>?? >>For this tri? >______________________________________________? >http://www.meteoritecentral.com? >Meteorite-list mailing list? >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? ? Prof. Zelimir Gabelica? Universit? de Haute Alsace? ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,? 3, Rue A. Werner,? F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France? Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94? Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jun 10 20:55:58 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:55:58 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star In-Reply-To: <8CBB83B7C6A7BEE-F34-18C7@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com><8CBB7C24DBBF244-EFC-631@webmail-dh04.sysops.aol.com> <200906101358.n5ADwgnA012120@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> <8CBB83B7C6A7BEE-F34-18C7@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:37:02 -0400, you wrote: >Yes, everyone from the Rolling Stones to Disney is now reminding me, > >"DON'T FORGET WINONA!" > >How careless of me, in honor the Route 66, and the Mother Road to >ancient ruins with meteorites, like the song, Winona may be out of >sequence, but not forgotten..., but the crown jewel of ancient ruins as >shown in Zelimir's great link... Uh, Winona is mentioned in the original article that was the starter of this thread. From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jun 10 20:59:17 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:59:17 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] speaking of Winona In-Reply-To: <8CBB83B7C6A7BEE-F34-18C7@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com><8CBB7C24DBBF244-EFC-631@webmail-dh04.sysops.aol.com> <200906101358.n5ADwgnA012120@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> <8CBB83B7C6A7BEE-F34-18C7@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9hl035d8laq26ov6e423k5a56vvv168he0@4ax.com> http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2009/06/09_betelim.shtml Off topic, but this would be an amazing thing to see. Just think what it would be to happen to be alive at the moment that naked-eye star visible for all of human history and prehistory died-- and erased one of the zodiacal constellations along with it. From drtanuki at yahoo.com Wed Jun 10 20:08:45 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:08:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Incoming Space Rocks now US Military Secret Message-ID: <452915.1872.qm@web53112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List, An article about the US military`s "Classified Secret" incoming space rocks has been published. http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ Dirk Ross...Tokyo From mlblood at cox.net Wed Jun 10 20:14:49 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:14:49 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] LDG clarification In-Reply-To: <8CBB83B7C6A7BEE-F34-18C7@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi all, A few years ago it came out they had discovered meteoritic Material in some of the Libyan Desert Glass (the specimens with Dark streaking). It am trying do discover the spelling of the name By which it was called: SCHYRIN (Sp? ) Scherlyn (Sp?) what? Anyone know the spelling? (I would think some of the others On the list would also be interested). Thanks, Michael From mlblood at cox.net Wed Jun 10 21:44:07 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:44:07 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] LDG Sclieren spelling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to Bob & Jeff: "Schlieren" it is. Thanks, Michael > From: Michael Blood > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:14:49 -0700 > To: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] LDG clarification > > Hi all, > A few years ago it came out they had discovered meteoritic > Material in some of the Libyan Desert Glass (the specimens with > Dark streaking). It am trying do discover the spelling of the name > By which it was called: SCHYRIN (Sp? ) Scherlyn (Sp?) what? > Anyone know the spelling? (I would think some of the others > On the list would also be interested). > Thanks, Michael > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Impactika at aol.com Wed Jun 10 22:27:34 2009 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:27:34 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] LDG Schlieren spelling Message-ID: OK, so the word is schlieren. Defined by Wikipedia as: Schlieren (from German; singular "Schliere") are optical inhomogeneities in transparent material not visible to the human eye. Schlieren physics developed out of the need to produce high-quality lenses void of these inhomogeneities. These inhomogeneities are localized differences in optical path length that cause light deviation. This light deviation is converted to shadow in a schlieren system. But,............. I don't see how that relates to meteoritic dust imbedded in Libyan Desert Glass. Anybody?? Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 6/10/2009 7:44:34 PM Mountain Daylight Time, mlblood at cox.net writes: Thanks to Bob & Jeff: "Schlieren" it is. Thanks, Michael > From: Michael Blood > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:14:49 -0700 > To: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] LDG clarification > > Hi all, > A few years ago it came out they had discovered meteoritic > Material in some of the Libyan Desert Glass (the specimens with > Dark streaking). It am trying do discover the spelling of the name > By which it was called: SCHYRIN (Sp? ) Scherlyn (Sp?) what? > Anyone know the spelling? (I would think some of the others > On the list would also be interested). > Thanks, Michael **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell?s full line of laptops. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222008777x1201444407/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435 8%3Bv) From meteoritekid at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 22:30:15 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:30:15 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: LDG Sclieren spelling In-Reply-To: <93aaac890906101900l1f73a0c5i8111f6068f30d236@mail.gmail.com> References: <93aaac890906101900l1f73a0c5i8111f6068f30d236@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890906101930s1bd845c0w7a12b4d2729f8791@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jason Utas Date: Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] LDG Sclieren spelling To: Michael Blood Hello Michael, That term applies to the "flow-lines" in all tektite material in general: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V66-4HW80JN-P&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d0f28fcf67ca9b3fda0bae5bb69ec35f http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VDB-3VW7S1X-5&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=78afbbfe49682a49c9b8accc306504dc And not necessarily to the meteoric material contained in LDG; schlieren generally applies to the visible differences in density apparent in layers and ripples in impact glasses, as well as other substances. ?In fact, in tektites, this usually applies to areas richer in SiO2 - not meteoric material. Regards, Jason On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > Thanks to Bob & Jeff: "Schlieren" it is. > ? ? ? ?Thanks, Michael > > >> From: Michael Blood >> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:14:49 -0700 >> To: Meteorite List >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] LDG clarification >> >> Hi all, >> ? ? ? ? A few years ago it came out they had discovered meteoritic >> Material in some of the Libyan Desert Glass (the specimens with >> Dark streaking). It am trying do discover the spelling of the name >> By which it was called: SCHYRIN ?(Sp? ) Scherlyn (Sp?) what? >> ? ? ? ? Anyone know the spelling? (I would think some of the others >> On the list would also be interested). >> ? ? ? ? Thanks, Michael >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From Impactika at aol.com Wed Jun 10 22:33:03 2009 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:33:03 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Well okay then Message-ID: Let's be fair, One scientist did go to West and more than once: Dr. Art Ehlmann from TCU. Anne M. Black http://www.impactika.com/ IMPACTIKA at aol.com Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. http://www.imca.cc/ In a message dated 6/10/2009 3:31:40 PM Mountain Daylight Time, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: Marc, It is just that every newspaper article and every interview usually touches on the fact that collectors get all the material and science is left in the dark. I am proving the point that commercial and private collectors actually provide the bulk of the material to science. We have likely recovered over 20 stones from this fall, thankfully before any precipitation, so almost all stones (except the bird crap pieces and the dog-slobber stone) are pristine. I rapidly donated a piece I found to TCU, am working on getting some more into another major museum collecdti --- On Wed, 3/4/09, Fries, Marc D wrote: From: Fries, Marc D Subject: [meteorite-list] Well okay then To: "Meteorite List" Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 9:59 AM Howdy all I?ve received a few ...em... ?spirited? responses to my last email that tell me that it didn?t exactly read the way I intended. I wasn?t trying to be a hero because I bought a plane ticket, I was trying to say that traveling on ?your own dime? isn?t what scientists are used to doing. Someone had made the comment that there were no scientists to be seen at West, and I agree that is ridiculous. Scientists travel to Antarctica every year to collect meteorites, but no one could be bothered to fly to Austin!? How many people who spend their lives studying meteorites just passed up a chance to see an actual, fresh strewn field?? (not to mention the kolaches) Funny thing is, I was actually agreeing with some of the nasty-grams I?ve received. Sounds like I touched a nerve. Can I suggest that y?all spare me the wrath, and direct it instead at the scientists who weren?t actually there? Cheers, MDF **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell?s full line of laptops. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222008777x1201444407/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435 8%3Bv) From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Wed Jun 10 22:39:54 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:39:54 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Well okay then In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This was some old email that appeared out of nowhere. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jun 10, 2009, at 7:33 PM, Impactika at aol.com wrote: > Let's be fair, > One scientist did go to West and more than once: Dr. Art Ehlmann > from TCU. > > Anne M. Black > http://www.impactika.com/ > IMPACTIKA at aol.com > Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. > http://www.imca.cc/ > > > > In a message dated 6/10/2009 3:31:40 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: > Marc, > It is just that every newspaper article and every interview usually > touches > on the fact that collectors get all the material and science is left > in the > dark. > I am proving the point that commercial and private collectors actually > provide the bulk of the material to science. We have likely > recovered over 20 > stones from this fall, thankfully before any precipitation, so > almost all > stones (except the bird crap pieces and the dog-slobber stone) are > pristine. > I rapidly donated a piece I found to TCU, am working on getting some > more > into another major museum collecdti > > --- On Wed, 3/4/09, Fries, Marc D wrote: > > From: Fries, Marc D > Subject: [meteorite-list] Well okay then > To: "Meteorite List" > Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 9:59 AM > Howdy all > > I?ve received a few ...em... ?spirited? > responses to my last email that > tell me that it didn?t exactly read the way I > intended. I wasn?t trying to > be a hero because I bought a plane ticket, I was trying to > say that > traveling on ?your own dime? isn?t what scientists are > used to doing. > Someone had made the comment that there were no scientists > to be seen at > West, and I agree that is ridiculous. Scientists > travel to Antarctica every > year to collect meteorites, but no one could be bothered to > fly to Austin!? > How many people who spend their lives studying meteorites > just passed up a > chance to see an actual, fresh strewn field?? (not to > mention the kolaches) > Funny thing is, I was actually agreeing with some of the > nasty-grams I?ve > received. > Sounds like I touched a nerve. Can I > suggest that y?all spare me the > wrath, and direct it instead at the scientists who weren?t > actually there? > > Cheers, > MDF > **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop > Dell?s > full line of laptops. > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222008777x1201444407/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435 > 8%3Bv) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 10 22:57:01 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:57:01 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: LDG Sclieren spelling References: <93aaac890906101900l1f73a0c5i8111f6068f30d236@mail.gmail.com> <93aaac890906101930s1bd845c0w7a12b4d2729f8791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <359A146EA5FC4CA881B2823AE4248C5D@ATARIENGINE2> The Schlieren effect is produced by variations in the index of refraction in a material, often associated with differences in density if the material is homogeneous in composition but can be produced by changes in composition as well, or by temperature effects or pressure or... Schlieren photography uses the Schlieren effect to render the differences in refraction visible. Here's some nice photography and movies of it: http://sciencehack.com/videos/view/_gKNhGbsEf4 Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas" To: "Impactika" ; "Meteorite-list" Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 9:30 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: LDG Sclieren spelling ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jason Utas Date: Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] LDG Sclieren spelling To: Michael Blood Hello Michael, That term applies to the "flow-lines" in all tektite material in general: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V66-4HW80JN-P&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d0f28fcf67ca9b3fda0bae5bb69ec35f http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VDB-3VW7S1X-5&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=78afbbfe49682a49c9b8accc306504dc And not necessarily to the meteoric material contained in LDG; schlieren generally applies to the visible differences in density apparent in layers and ripples in impact glasses, as well as other substances. In fact, in tektites, this usually applies to areas richer in SiO2 - not meteoric material. Regards, Jason On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > Thanks to Bob & Jeff: "Schlieren" it is. > Thanks, Michael > > >> From: Michael Blood >> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:14:49 -0700 >> To: Meteorite List >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] LDG clarification >> >> Hi all, >> A few years ago it came out they had discovered meteoritic >> Material in some of the Libyan Desert Glass (the specimens with >> Dark streaking). It am trying do discover the spelling of the name >> By which it was called: SCHYRIN (Sp? ) Scherlyn (Sp?) what? >> Anyone know the spelling? (I would think some of the others >> On the list would also be interested). >> Thanks, Michael >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 11 01:23:11 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 00:23:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A transient lunar phenomenon In-Reply-To: <93aaac890906101930s1bd845c0w7a12b4d2729f8791@mail.gmail.com> References: <93aaac890906101900l1f73a0c5i8111f6068f30d236@mail.gmail.com> <93aaac890906101930s1bd845c0w7a12b4d2729f8791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5351355jfhjg8203o8tq55f1qb20qh2hel@4ax.com> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/10/kaguya-impact/ From gredfern at earthlink.net Wed Jun 10 08:02:11 2009 From: gredfern at earthlink.net (Greg Redfern) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:02:11 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrocast.tv Episode 15 Message-ID: All, Please enjoy another great episode. ASTROCAST http://astrocast.tv/ All the best, Greg Greg Redfern NASA JPL Solar System Ambassador http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html WHAT'S UP?: THE SPACE PLACE http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=600113&nid=421 ASTROCAST http://astrocast.tv/ From edwinthompson at comcast.net Thu Jun 11 00:40:42 2009 From: edwinthompson at comcast.net (edwinthompson at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 04:40:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - thin sections of Ash Creek for sale Message-ID: <1988476452.2656191244695242090.JavaMail.root@sz0040a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hi list members. We are selling beautiful thin sections of Ash Creek. These were made from a spectacular stone found by Patrick and display wonderful breccia. The sections have a large surface area. These are double polished, covered slides and are top quality. Only a few available now but more to come. Please contact us off list at etmeteorites at hotmail.com Cheers, Edwin From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jun 11 05:10:47 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 11 Jun 2009 09:10:47 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Schlieren ... not only in LDG and tektites but also Message-ID: .. in IVB irons! An excerpt from Buchwald (p. 463): "Etched sections [of Chinga] show the s c h l i e r e n bands characteristic of so many group IVB ataxites. They are-on undeformed specimens-straight and parallel, 1-10 mm wide and taper out in irregular ways. There are generally only two 'sets', one having high, the other low reflectivity, but they are of the same chemical composition." Reference: BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Volume 2, pp. 461-464. Best from very windy Southern Germany, Bernd From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Thu Jun 11 06:21:13 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 06:21:13 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 11, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_11_2009.html __________________________ **************Dell Deals: Don?t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops starting at $449. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B i) From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 11 09:41:27 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 06:41:27 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Win a piece of moon rock Message-ID: Sent my comment in but but now noticed someone else sent a similar comment before me. Rats!! Carl _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 From cmb62 at columbus.rr.com Thu Jun 11 12:49:39 2009 From: cmb62 at columbus.rr.com (Charley) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:49:39 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Future Planetary Collision? Message-ID: <9FEFC38C25074C8DAD14C905C798209F@HAL1> Hi List, Maybe a bit off topic although lots of meteoroids would be created. A French researcher says we may have a collision with Venus or Mars in 3.5 billion years. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2009-06/11/content_8271159.htm Best regards, Charley "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's try elephants !" Hannibal From eric at meteoritesusa.com Thu Jun 11 13:25:00 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:25:00 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? Message-ID: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> Hi all, This just in... Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. ------------------------------------------ "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." Meteor hits boy on way to school Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on my hand.? The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but Blank knew something special had happened to him. ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from the heat as it went by me,? he said. After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school with him. ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html ------------------------------------------- Another site reports: SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. SOURCE: http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news-ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html -------------------------------------------- So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? Anyone else have any info? -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From bristolia at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 13:25:17 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Distribution of Meteorite Finds in Texas ??? Message-ID: <242852.34186.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Friends, Does anyone know where I might data concerning where meteorites have been found in Texas? Are there any maps showing the location of meteorite finds in Texas? I am curious about the relationship between where meteorites have been found in Texas and regional geomorphic surfaces within Texas. Best Regards, Paul Paul V. Heinrich From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 13:31:52 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: One cent ebay auctions ending in hours Message-ID: <303079.30556.qm@web110608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.meteorite.com/farmer/ I have more than 50 meteorites ending in hours. All meteorites on ebay have no reserve, started at 1 cent! Where they end, they sell. Most are still at one cent. Michael Farmer From eric at meteoritesusa.com Thu Jun 11 13:34:06 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:34:06 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? In-Reply-To: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <4A31400E.4000703@meteoritesusa.com> Sorry instead of "And what is the stone that hit them?" I didn't actually mean them in the plural sense... I didn't know whether to say her or him. So don't yell at me for thinking this is a meteorite or that there are multiple "victims". ;) Sorry for the confusion... Meteorites USA wrote: > Hi all, > > This just in... > > Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. > > ------------------------------------------ > > "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing > 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." > > Meteor hits boy on way to school > Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET > > ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, > and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche > Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on > my hand.? > > The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but > Blank knew something special had happened to him. > > ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from > the heat as it went by me,? he said. > > After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a > sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from > his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school > with him. > > ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His > parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. > > Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested > the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble > is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. > > Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. > > SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html > > ------------------------------------------- > > Another site reports: > > SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky > > SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. > A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the > sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white > cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm > cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it > and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? > Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. > > SOURCE: > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news-ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > > > -------------------------------------------- > > So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? > > Anyone else have any info? > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 13:35:17 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:35:17 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Distribution of Meteorite Finds in Texas ??? In-Reply-To: <242852.34186.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <242852.34186.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, Try using the NASA WorldWind program with the Met Soc Bulletin plug-in. It will graphically plot the location of all meteorite falls and finds (outside of Antarctica) - http://worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/ http://worldwindcentral.com/wiki/Add-on:Meteoritical_Bulletin Best regards, MikeG On 6/11/09, Paul wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > Does anyone know where I might data concerning where > meteorites have been found in Texas? Are there any maps > showing the location of meteorite finds in Texas? > > I am curious about the relationship between where > meteorites have been found in Texas and regional > geomorphic surfaces within Texas. > > Best Regards, > > Paul > > Paul V. Heinrich > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From damoclid at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 13:40:39 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Distribution of Meteorite Finds in Texas ??? Message-ID: <976636.12004.qm@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Paul, I downloaded all of the meteorite entries from the Meteoritical Society database as a Google Earth file. The file has all the location entries for all of those that have this information in the entry, but it does exclude all Antarctic finds. Of course all the caveats associated with the locations for each meteorite entry still apply... Its actually a pretty neat output if you haven't used it yet... If you use Google Earth, the file can be found at: http://www.fullmoonphotography.net/images/Meteorites/METSOC_20090601_non-Antarctic.kmz You may have a problem with wrap, so you can try here: http://tinyurl.com/kr2a7x Hope this helps. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net --- On Thu, 6/11/09, Paul wrote: > From: Paul > Subject: [meteorite-list] Distribution of Meteorite Finds in Texas ??? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 10:25 AM > > Dear Friends, > > Does anyone know where I might data concerning where > meteorites have been found in Texas? Are there any maps > showing the location of meteorite finds in Texas? > > I am curious about the relationship between where > meteorites have been found in Texas and regional > geomorphic surfaces within Texas. > > Best Regards, > > Paul > > Paul V. Heinrich > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From GeoZay at aol.com Thu Jun 11 14:52:03 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:52:03 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? Message-ID: I'm not sure where to start with this one. It could be a meteorite that hit the childs hand, but with an embellished story to go with it. Or a pebble thrown at the child by either another person or perhaps a passing vehicle, but still accompanied with an embellished story. The boy saw a "white Light" and soon afterwards "felt something on his hand. " Well this could be a case of a person describing what they think should have happen if it was a meteorite that hit them. But this is where they trip themselves up. If it was glowing to the point it burnt him as it went by, I doubt the boy would be alive to tell this tale. Either by the large boulder sized rock that it would have to be in order to be glowing on ground impact or the concussion when it hit the ground...apparently right next to him. then he states that the pebble left a sizable crater to which he stared at the glowing rock. Then afterwards doused it with his ice tea and took it to school with him. I also find it interesting that there's no report of any sonic boom...which I'm sure there would have been one for a large rock that glowed to the ground. But since he says it was a pebble, No sonic boom reports would be normal. Me thinks this kid suckered in a lot of folks with some wishful thinking. Perhaps he could do better selling bridges? GeoZay ---------------------------------- >>Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." Meteor hits boy on way to school Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on my hand.? The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but Blank knew something special had happened to him. ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from the heat as it went by me,? he said. After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school with him. ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic.<< **************Dell Deals: Don?t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops starting at $449. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B i) From mqfowler at mac.com Thu Jun 11 15:00:41 2009 From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:00:41 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? Message-ID: <3E3A9B23-BAB2-4372-86D6-3C0476805DAA@mac.com> Not sure if deserves a comment, but if you look at the pea sized object in the photo, and try to imagine how fast it would fall before reaching terminal velocity (perhaps about 25 or 30 mph) you would quickly realize that it could not make a crater, let alone be blazing firery trail. Mike Fowler Chicago > > Hi all, > > This just in... > > Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. > > ------------------------------------------ > > "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing > 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." > > Meteor hits boy on way to school > Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET > > ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, > and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche > Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on > my hand.? > > The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but > Blank knew something special had happened to him. > > ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from > the > heat as it went by me,? he said. > > After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a > sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from > his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school > with him. > > ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His > parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. > > Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested > the > round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble is > from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. > > Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. > > SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html > > ------------------------------------------- > > Another site reports: > > SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky > > SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. > A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the > sky. > The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white cone > of > light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm cut in her > hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it and took > it > with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? Could it be a > meteorite? Experts will have to explain. > > SOURCE: > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news-ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > > -------------------------------------------- > > So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? > > Anyone else have any info? > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > > ? Previous message: [meteorite-list] Future Planetary Collision? > ? Next message: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? > Boy? > ? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jun 11 15:36:14 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 11 Jun 2009 19:36:14 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? Message-ID: Hi List, We've already discussed this on our German Met.List. and I can tell you it is one of those Yellow Press canards but, unfortunately, quite a few people will fall for such nonsense. Mike Fowler is right on track with his comments and the absolute summit of nonsense is probably this: "The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand." Oh well, . Best wishes, Bernd From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 11 17:10:13 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:10:13 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Military intelligence-- still an oxymoron. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.space.com/news/090610-military-fireballs.html Military Hush-Up: Incoming Space Rocks Now Classified By Leonard David SPACE.com's Space Insider Columnist posted: 10 June 2009 05:35 pm ET For 15 years, scientists have benefited from data gleaned by U.S. classified satellites of natural fireball events in Earth's atmosphere ? but no longer. A recent U.S. military policy decision now explicitly states that observations by hush-hush government spacecraft of incoming bolides and fireballs are classified secret and are not to be released, SPACE.com has learned. The satellites' main objectives include detecting nuclear bomb tests, and their characterizations of asteroids and lesser meteoroids as they crash through the atmosphere has been a byproduct data bonanza for scientists. The upshot: Space rocks that explode in the atmosphere are now classified. "It's baffling to us why this would suddenly change," said one scientist familiar with the work. "It's unfortunate because there was this great synergy...a very good cooperative arrangement. Systems were put into dual-use mode where a lot of science was getting done that couldn't be done any other way. It's a regrettable change in policy." Scientists say not only will research into the threat from space be hampered, but public understanding of sometimes dramatic sky explosions will be diminished, perhaps leading to hype and fear of the unknown. Incoming! Most "shooting stars" are caused by natural space debris no larger than peas. But routinely, rocks as big as basketballs and even small cars crash into the atmosphere. Most vaporize or explode on the way in, but some reach the surface or explode above the surface. Understandably, scientists want to know about these events so they can better predict the risk here on Earth. Yet because the world is two-thirds ocean, most incoming objects aren't visible to observers on the ground. Many other incoming space rocks go unnoticed because daylight drowns them out. Over the last decade or so, hundreds of these events have been spotted by the classified satellites. Priceless observational information derived from the spacecraft were made quickly available, giving researchers such insights as time, a location, height above the surface, as well as light-curves to help pin down the amount of energy churned out from the fireballs. And in the shaky world we now live, it's nice to know that a sky-high detonation is natural versus a nuclear weapon blast. Where the space-based surveillance truly shines is over remote stretches of ocean ? far away from the prospect of ground-based data collection. But all that ended within the last few months, leaving scientists blind-sided and miffed by the shift in policy. The hope is that the policy decision will be revisited and overturned. Critical importance "The fireball data from military or surveillance assets have been of critical importance for assessing the impact hazard," said David Morrison, a Near Earth Object (NEO) scientist at NASA's Ames Research Center. He noted that his views are his own, not as a NASA spokesperson. The size of the average largest atmospheric impact from small asteroids is a key piece of experimental data to anchor the low-energy end of the power-law distribution of impactors, from asteroids greater than 6 miles (10 kilometers) in diameter down to the meter scale, Morrison told SPACE.com. "These fireball data together with astronomical observations of larger near-Earth asteroids define the nature of the impact hazard and allow rational planning to deal with this issue," Morrison said. Morrison said that fireball data are today playing additional important roles. As example, the fireball data together with infrasound allowed scientists to verify the approximate size and energy of the unique Carancas impact in the Altiplano -- on the Peru-Bolivia border -- on Sept. 15, 2007. Fireball information also played an important part in the story of the small asteroid 2008 TC3, Morrison said. That was the first-ever case of the astronomical detection of a small asteroid before it hit last year. The fireball data were key for locating the impact point and the subsequent recovery of fragments from this impact. Link in public understanding Astronomers are closing in on a years-long effort to find most of the potentially devastating large asteroids in our neck of the cosmic woods, those that could cause widespread regional or global devastation. Now they plan to look for the smaller stuff. So it is ironic that the availability of these fireball data should be curtailed just at the time the NEO program is moving toward surveying the small impactors that are most likely to be picked up in the fireball monitoring program, Morrision said. "These data have been available to the scientific community for the past decade," he said. "It is unfortunate this information is shut off just when it is becoming more valuable to the community interested in characterizing near Earth asteroids and protecting our planet from asteroid impacts." The newly issued policy edict by the U.S. military of reporting fireball observations from satellites also caught the attention of Clark Chapman, a planetary scientist and asteroid impact expert at Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colorado. "I think that this information is very important to make public," Chapman told SPACE.com. "More important than the scientific value, I think, is that these rare, bright fireballs provide a link in public understanding to the asteroid impact hazard posed by still larger and less frequent asteroids," Chapman explained. Those objects are witnessed by unsuspecting people in far-flung places, Chapman said, often generating incorrect and exaggerated reports. "The grounding achieved by associating these reports by untrained observers with the satellite measurements is very useful for calibrating the observer reports and closing the loop with folks who think they have seen something mysterious and extraordinary," Chapman said. From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 16:12:54 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Military intelligence-- still an oxymoron. Message-ID: <903759.91123.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Perhaps they have found "the big one" heading right for us and dont want it to get out... --- On Thu, 6/11/09, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: [meteorite-list] Military intelligence-- still an oxymoron. > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 5:10 PM > http://www.space.com/news/090610-military-fireballs.html > > Military Hush-Up: Incoming Space Rocks Now Classified > By Leonard David > SPACE.com's Space Insider Columnist > posted: 10 June 2009 > 05:35 pm ET > > For 15 years, scientists have benefited from data gleaned > by U.S. classified > satellites of natural fireball events in Earth's atmosphere > ? but no longer. > > A recent U.S. military policy decision now explicitly > states that observations > by hush-hush government spacecraft of incoming bolides and > fireballs are > classified secret and are not to be released, SPACE.com has > learned. > > The satellites' main objectives include detecting nuclear > bomb tests, and their > characterizations of asteroids and lesser meteoroids as > they crash through the > atmosphere has been a byproduct data bonanza for > scientists. > > The upshot: Space rocks that explode in the atmosphere are > now classified. > > "It's baffling to us why this would suddenly change," said > one scientist > familiar with the work. "It's unfortunate because there was > this great > synergy...a very good cooperative arrangement. Systems were > put into dual-use > mode where a lot of science was getting done that couldn't > be done any other > way. It's a regrettable change in policy." > > Scientists say not only will research into the threat from > space be hampered, > but public understanding of sometimes dramatic sky > explosions will be > diminished, perhaps leading to hype and fear of the > unknown. > > Incoming! > > Most "shooting stars" are caused by natural space debris no > larger than peas. > But routinely, rocks as big as basketballs and even small > cars crash into the > atmosphere. Most vaporize or explode on the way in, but > some reach the surface > or explode above the surface. Understandably, scientists > want to know about > these events so they can better predict the risk here on > Earth. > > Yet because the world is two-thirds ocean, most incoming > objects aren't visible > to observers on the ground. Many other incoming space rocks > go unnoticed because > daylight drowns them out. > > Over the last decade or so, hundreds of these events have > been spotted by the > classified satellites. Priceless observational information > derived from the > spacecraft were made quickly available, giving researchers > such insights as > time, a location, height above the surface, as well as > light-curves to help pin > down the amount of energy churned out from the fireballs. > > And in the shaky world we now live, it's nice to know that > a sky-high detonation > is natural versus a nuclear weapon blast. > > Where the space-based surveillance truly shines is over > remote stretches of > ocean ? far away from the prospect of ground-based data > collection. > > But all that ended within the last few months, leaving > scientists blind-sided > and miffed by the shift in policy. The hope is that the > policy decision will be > revisited and overturned. > > Critical importance > > "The fireball data from military or surveillance assets > have been of critical > importance for assessing the impact hazard," said David > Morrison, a Near Earth > Object (NEO) scientist at NASA's Ames Research Center. He > noted that his views > are his own, not as a NASA spokesperson. > > The size of the average largest atmospheric impact from > small asteroids is a key > piece of experimental data to anchor the low-energy end of > the power-law > distribution of impactors, from asteroids greater than 6 > miles (10 kilometers) > in diameter down to the meter scale, Morrison told > SPACE.com. > > "These fireball data together with astronomical > observations of larger > near-Earth asteroids define the nature of the impact hazard > and allow rational > planning to deal with this issue," Morrison said. > > Morrison said that fireball data are today playing > additional important roles. > > As example, the fireball data together with infrasound > allowed scientists to > verify the approximate size and energy of the unique > Carancas impact in the > Altiplano -- on the Peru-Bolivia border -- on Sept. 15, > 2007. > > Fireball information also played an important part in the > story of the small > asteroid 2008 TC3, Morrison said. That was the first-ever > case of the > astronomical detection of a small asteroid before it hit > last year. The fireball > data were key for locating the impact point and the > subsequent recovery of > fragments from this impact. > > Link in public understanding > > Astronomers are closing in on a years-long effort to find > most of the > potentially devastating large asteroids in our neck of the > cosmic woods, those > that could cause widespread regional or global devastation. > Now they plan to > look for the smaller stuff. > > So it is ironic that the availability of these fireball > data should be curtailed > just at the time the NEO program is moving toward surveying > the small impactors > that are most likely to be picked up in the fireball > monitoring program, > Morrision said. > > "These data have been available to the scientific community > for the past > decade," he said. "It is unfortunate this information is > shut off just when it > is becoming more valuable to the community interested in > characterizing near > Earth asteroids and protecting our planet from asteroid > impacts." > > The newly issued policy edict by the U.S. military of > reporting fireball > observations from satellites also caught the attention of > Clark Chapman, a > planetary scientist and asteroid impact expert at Southwest > Research Institute > in Boulder, Colorado. > > "I think that this information is very important to make > public," Chapman told > SPACE.com. > > "More important than the scientific value, I think, is that > these rare, bright > fireballs provide a link in public understanding to the > asteroid impact hazard > posed by still larger and less frequent asteroids," Chapman > explained. > > Those objects are witnessed by unsuspecting people in > far-flung places, Chapman > said, often generating incorrect and exaggerated reports. > > "The grounding achieved by associating these reports by > untrained observers with > the satellite measurements is very useful for calibrating > the observer reports > and closing the loop with folks who think they have seen > something mysterious > and extraordinary," Chapman said. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 11 16:25:22 2009 From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:25:22 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Military intelligence-- still an oxymoron. In-Reply-To: <903759.91123.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I saw this article. For some reason the press tends to go extra-special whenever they report on military matters. My favorite part is this: >> >> The upshot: Space rocks that explode in the atmosphere are >> now classified. Yeah, that's it. You're not allowed to know that meteors exist. Why, that makes perfect sense, and I'm sure that's exactly how the rule change was phrased. It seems more likely that someone decided that a clever observer could discern important details about our technical capabilities from the information handed out to meteor watchers and decided to clamp down. It may be a temporary change while they review the policy, but you can't tell from that magnificent piece of professional journalism. Magnificent. From GeoZay at aol.com Thu Jun 11 16:29:06 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:29:06 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? Message-ID: >>Why didn't you ask some one on the list, in Germany to try to fine out the truth!!<< Because no part of this story made any sense. It was as if no one was actually there to witness anything and it was all a fabricated fantasy. He might as well been describing a 6 foot tall invisible bunny. GeoZay **************Dell Deals: Don?t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops starting at $449. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B i) From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jun 11 16:21:20 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 11 Jun 2009 20:21:20 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? Message-ID: "He might as well been describing a 6 foot tall invisible bunny. Harvey :-)) Best, Bernd From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Jun 11 16:37:39 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:37:39 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Military intelligence-- still an oxymoron. References: <903759.91123.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5567C0BF3A6B4CC9BC57C92B4DC6D6E2@bellatrix> > Perhaps they have found "the big one" heading right for > us and dont want it to get out... The satellites involved only look down. So if they've found the big one, it's pretty darn close... Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Catterton" To: Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Military intelligence-- still an oxymoron. > > Perhaps they have found "the big one" heading right for us and dont want > it to get out... From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 11 16:56:54 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rovers Update: May 28 - June 3, 2009 Message-ID: <200906112056.NAA03824@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html SPIRIT UPDATE: Underbelly Photography - sols 1920-1926, May 28 - June 03, 2009: Although Spirit has yet to begin to extricate herself from the loose, soft terrain on the west side of Home Plate, the rover has been active using her instruments to assess her embedded state. This week the robotic arm (Instrument Deployment Device, IDD) with the Microscopic Imager (MI) were used to take a mosaic of images of the rover's underbelly. The MI, a short focus camera, was never designed to take these types of long-focus images. This technique was first tested by Opportunity and the test demonstrated that although the images will not be sharply focused, sufficient detail can be seen. Spirit's first MI mosaic of the underbelly was collected on Sol 1922 (May 30, 2009). The IDD then positioned the MI to collect a stack of images of a science soil target and placed the M?ssbauer (MB) spectrometer on the science target for a multi-sol integration. Spirit collected a second underbelly image mosaic on Sol 1925 (June 2, 2009). This time the IDD extended further under the rover to capture more detail. The IDD then collected another MI stack of images of a science target followed by the placement of the Alpha-Particle X-ray Spectrometer (APXS) on the same target. Frames of a 360-degree color panorama, called the Calypso panorama, were collected. Targeted observations were made with the miniature thermal emission spectrometer. The project was successful in restoring files to a computer server so that the surface system testbed (SSTB) rover at JPL could be operated. Soil simulant tests with the SSTB were performed on "Bag House" dust simulant. Unfortunately, the test results show that the Bag House dust is not suitable as a simulant for Spirit's situation. A new simulant is being formulated and will be tested shortly. As of Sol 1926, solar array energy production was generous at 884 watt-hours with atmospheric opacity (tau) of 0.458 and a dust factor of 0.772. Spirit's total odometry remains at 7,729.93 meters (4.80 miles). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Southbound Progress - sols 1900-1905, May 29 - June 03, 2009: Opportunity has been busy driving south. The rover drove four out of the last six sols. The drives have all been blind drives with regular slip checks for progress. On Sols 1900, 1902 and 1904 (May 29, May 31 and June 2, 2009), Opportunity drove 66, 71 and 74 meters, (217, 233 and 243 feet), respectively. On Sol 1905 (June 3, 2009), the rover only accomplished about 30 meters (98 feet) of driving before the time ran out. Activities were very time-constrained on that sol. Motor currents in the right-front wheel continue to be elevated. Limiting the drive distance and employing regular, short, backward slip checks seems to mitigate further increases in right-front wheel current. As of Sol 1905 (June 3, 2009), Opportunity's solar array energy production is 413 watt-hours. Atmospheric opacity (tau) is 0.559. The dust factor is 0.542, meaning that 54.2 percent of sunlight hitting the solar array penetrates the layer of accumulated dust on the array. Opportunity's total odometry is 16,424.22 meters (10.2 miles). From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jun 11 16:58:02 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:58:02 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601c9ead7$4fa08d40$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> It's similar to the cases of Pauline Aguss: http://meteorite-identification.com/mwnews/08172004a.htm and Siobhan Cowton: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2218755.stm Would be speculation, to ask for their motivation, whether really believe that they were hit by a meteorite or if they have reasons for telling so, the stones at least weren't meteorites. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von GeoZay at aol.com Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Juni 2009 22:29 An: bolinousa at msn.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? >>Why didn't you ask some one on the list, in Germany to try to fine out the truth!!<< Because no part of this story made any sense. It was as if no one was actually there to witness anything and it was all a fabricated fantasy. He might as well been describing a 6 foot tall invisible bunny. GeoZay **************Dell Deals: Don?t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops starting at $449. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B i) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 11 16:59:14 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - June 10, 2009 Message-ID: <200906112059.NAA04874@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES June 10, 2009 o Small Crater Near Upper Reach of Mamers Valles http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_010630_2115 o Of Polar Pits and Gullies http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012873_1075 o Grand Canyon of Gale Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012195_1750 o Light-Toned Hummock in Iani Region http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012016_1800 o South Polar Region Cryptic Terrain http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011946_0985 o Fans and Seasonal Polygonal Features http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011792_0980 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 11 17:02:00 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Japan's Kaguya Spacecraft Impacts the Moon Message-ID: <200906112102.OAA05529@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0906/10kaguya/ A smashing end for Japanese lunar orbiter mission BY STEPHEN CLARK SPACEFLIGHT NOW June 10, 2009 An Australian telescope observed the controlled crash of Japan's Kaguya lunar probe into the moon Wednesday, an important warm-up act before a NASA impactor attempts a similar feat in October with much higher stakes. [Images] The image above shows a sequence of four frames around the impact time, with a bright impact flash visible in the second frame, and faintly seen in the third and fourth. Credit: Anglo-Australian Telescope by Jeremy Bailey (University of New South Wales) and Steve Lee (Anglo-Australian Observatory) The impact was a planned violent ending to a highly successful $500 million mission that lasted nearly two years. Kaguya smacked into the moon at about 1825 GMT Wednesday, or about 3:25 a.m. Japan time Thursday. The spacecraft hit the moon at 80.4 degrees east longitude and 65.5 degrees south latitude, or near the lower right quadrant of the moon's near side as viewed from Earth, according to the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency. The Anglo-Australian Telescope's infrared wide-field camera and spectrograph, called IRIS2, detected the flash of the high-speed impact. "A bright impact flash was seen close to the predicted time," said Jeremy Bailey, one of the observers. Bernard Foing, project manager of the European Space Agency's SMART 1 mission, alerted Australian scientists of Kaguya's impact. "Congratulations for the successful observation of (the) Kaguya impact at the Anglo-Australian Telescope," Foing wrote in an email to Bailey and other scientists. Foing is executive director of the International Lunar Exploration Working Group, an organization established by the world's space agencies as a public forum for scientists. SMART 1 crashed into the moon in 2006 after a technology demonstration mission in lunar orbit. The Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope at Mauna Kea observed that event. Kaguya was five times heavier than SMART 1 and was aiming for a region in darkness near the terminator. Those conditions meant dust from the impact could be thrown into space and illuminated by sunlight. Scientists will analyze the imagery to look for evidence of a dust plume like the one produced by SMART 1, officials said. Kaguya was flying at a horizontal velocity of about 4,000 mph, but the spacecraft struck the moon at an angle of just 1 degree. The grazing impact was expected to diminish the crater size and dust cloud caused by the crash. The spacecraft, about the size of a sports utility vehicle, was remotely commanded to lower its orbit and hit the moon as its fuel supply dwindled. Officials said they wanted to end the mission before Kaguya ran out of fuel because that would eventually lead to an uncontrolled impact. "At low altitude, a lot of fuel is needed to maintain the orbit," Foing said. "We take advantage of the opportunity to create a well-characterized impact experiment." Kaguya, also named SELENE, launched in September 2007 and arrived at the moon about 20 days later to begin nearly two years of observations using 15 science payloads. The instruments included a stereo camera suite, an array of sensors designed to sniff for hydrogen, a laser altimeter that measured the shape of the moon, and a payload to probe the local radiation environment. Kaguya also carried a high definition camera that beamed back stunning video imagery of the moon. The spacecraft released two daughter satellites after entering lunar orbit. The 110-pound satellites helped Kaguya study the moon's gravity field and the lunar ionosphere. One of the probes was guided into the moon in February, and the other is still being operated. Wednesday's impact was similar to the demise of other lunar missions, including SMART 1. NASA's Lunar Prospector was ordered to plunge into a permanently shadowed crater near the moon's south pole in 1999. The Chinese Chang'e 1 orbiter ended its exploration of the moon in March with a lunar impact. Scientists must draw upon telescopes around the world to observe spacecraft impacts. Lunar Prospector's final moments were studied by the orbiting Hubble Space Telescope, the McDonald Observatory in Texas and the Keck Observatory in Hawaii. NASA is launching the first devoted lunar impactor next week to begin a four-month cruise through space that will culiminate with an October crash into a permanently shadowed crater at the moon's south pole. The mission is called the Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite, or LCROSS. The spacecraft carries a complex group of sensors that will give scientists their closest look of an impact as the probe's Centaur rocket smashes in the moon. Spectrometers aboard LCROSS will attempt to sense hydrogen and water molecules in the material ejected from the crater. The LCROSS impact sequence will also be observed by Hubble and an array of Earth-based telescopes. LCROSS will launch with the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, the first mission in NASA's plans to return humans to the moon. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 11 17:14:19 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] WISE Mission Assembled and Preparing for Launch Message-ID: <200906112114.OAA07628@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=2183 WISE Mission Assembled and Preparing for Launch Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 10, 2009 PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA's Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer, or WISE, has been assembled and is undergoing final preparations for a planned Nov. 1 launch from Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif. The mission will survey the entire sky at infrared wavelengths, creating a cosmic clearinghouse of hundreds of millions of objects -- everything from the most luminous galaxies, to the nearest stars, to dark and potentially hazardous asteroids. The survey will be the most detailed to date in infrared light, with a sensitivity hundreds of times better than that of its predecessor, the Infrared Astronomical Satellite. "Most of the sky has never been imaged at these infrared wavelengths with this kind of sensitivity," said Edward Wright, the mission's principal investigator at UCLA. "We are sure to find many surprises." On May 17, the mission's science instrument was delivered to Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp. in Boulder, Colo., where it was attached to the spacecraft, built by Ball. The assembled unit was then blasted by sound to simulate the effects of launch. Tests for electronic "noise" in the detectors will be performed next. The science instrument is a 40-centimeter (16-inch) telescope with four infrared cameras. A cryostat, or cooler, uses frozen hydrogen to chill the sensitive megapixel infrared detectors down to seven Kelvin (minus 447 degrees Fahrenheit). The instrument was built by Space Dynamics Laboratory in Logan, Utah. Among expected finds from WISE are hundreds of thousands of asteroids in our solar system's asteroid belt, and hundreds of additional asteroids that come near Earth. Many asteroids have gone undetected because they don't reflect much visible light, but their heat makes them glow in infrared light that WISE can see. By cataloguing the objects, the mission will provide better estimates of their sizes, a critical step for assessing the risk associated with those that might impact Earth. "We know that asteroids occasionally hit Earth, and we'd like to have a better idea of how many there are and their sizes," said Amy Mainzer of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., the mission's deputy project scientist. "Whether they are dark or shiny, they all emit infrared light. They can't hide from WISE." The mission is also expected to find the coldest stars -- dim orbs called brown dwarfs that are too small to have ignited like our sun. Brown dwarfs are littered throughout our galaxy, but because they are so cool, they are often too faint to see in visible light. The infrared detectors on WISE will pick up the glow of roughly 1,000 brown dwarfs in our galaxy, including those coldest and closest to our solar system. In fact, astronomers say the mission could find a brown dwarf closer to us than the nearest known star, Proxima Centauri, located approximately 4 light-years away. "We've been learning that brown dwarfs may have planets, so it's possible we'll find the closest planetary systems," said Peter Eisenhardt, the mission's project scientist at JPL. "We should also find many hundreds of brown dwarfs colder than 480 degrees Celsius (900 degrees Fahrenheit), a group that as of now has only nine known members." In addition, the survey will reveal the universe's most luminous galaxies seen long ago in the dusty throes of their formation, disks of planet-forming material around stars, and other cosmic goodies. The observations will guide other infrared telescopes to the most interesting objects for follow-up studies. For example, NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope, the Herschel observatory just launched by ESA with significant NASA participation, and NASA's upcoming James Webb Space Telescope will direct their gaze at objects uncovered by WISE. WISE will lift off from Vandenberg aboard a United Launch Alliance Delta II rocket. It will orbit Earth, mapping the entire sky in six months after a one-month checkout period. Its frozen hydrogen is expected to last several months longer, allowing WISE to map much of the sky a second time and see what has changed. JPL manages the Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer for NASA's Science Mission Directorate. The mission's principal investigator, Edward Wright, is at UCLA. The mission was developed under NASA's Explorer Program managed by the Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. The science instrument was built by the Space Dynamics Laboratory and the spacecraft was built by Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp. Science operations and data processing will take place at the Infrared Processing and Analysis Center at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. Caltech manages JPL for NASA. More information is online at http://wise.ssl.berkeley.edu/mission.html . The Infrared Astronomical Satellite, launched in 1983, was a joint mission between NASA, the United Kingdom and the Netherlands. Media contact: Whitney Clavin/JPL 818-354-4673 From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 11 17:35:03 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:35:03 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Future Planetary Collision? References: <9FEFC38C25074C8DAD14C905C798209F@HAL1> Message-ID: <3E416EE4212A4827AFC9C17399ABFBD8@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, Charley, List, I'd just spotted the same press release (it turns out) on Space.com: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090610-planets-colllide.html The wobbly behavior of the Inner Solar System is not a new discovery. Here's a movie of the inner solar system's actual orbital evolution over the last 3,000,000 years: http://muller.lbl.gov/pages/innerplanets.html It can be downloaded directly from here: http://muller.lbl.gov/images/inner.mov The movie that you can view or download from this page is about 12 Mbytes long, and in .mov format. I used QuickTime Player (.mov is its native format) because you can step through it frame by frame (right/left arrows). Real Player and Windows Media Player (10) will also play it. You can open it in a browser window if you have the Quick Time plugin (takes a bit to download). The scale of the animation is not exaggerated or amplified. If you could sit in space and watch the inner solar system trace each orbit with a visible line, this is what you'd see. The units on the edges of the background plane are AU's. The site rather modestly says, "Even if you are an expert, you may be surprised at what you see!" "Drunk drivers at NASCAR track" would be a good title, if you pasted in some little cartoon racers with sponsor patches. Is this the renowned "stability" of the solar system we hear so much about? And, of course, it IS stable. Nothing has gone wrong in the last three million years nor for a long time before that (or has it?). Still, everything just wobbles like crazy... Currently, Venus can approach as close as 24.7 million miles and Mars as close as 34.7 million miles, but it would seem that in the past (and future too) their close approaches could be as near as roughly half that distance. I found this movie to be utterly fascinating (could be just me). After a few times through it, I would concentrate on just watching one planet at a time: Mercury slides back and forth like it was shifting the Sun from one elliptical focus point to the other; Mars' orbit expands and contracts; Venus and the Earth pull up close and flirt with resonance lock; they all rock back and forth. Venus is the one that worries me. The orbit of Venus has peculiarities, too. Venus's "year" is 224.7 Earth days. Venus's "day" is 243.01 Earth days. But because Venus's axial rotation is backward measured against the Sun and stars, the Venusian "solar day" is only 116.75 Earth days long. Of course, we could just as well not describe Venus's rotation as "backward," but just consider that Venus rotates "normally" but with its axis turned completely upside-down, by 177.4 degrees! However you look at it, Venus is the only body of any size in the solar system to rotate "backward." If you regard "normal" rotation as required, as it is, by most theories of solar system formation, then you have to invoke a Big Whack to turn Venus upside-down! That would have to be one heck of a whack, too. The energy transfer would be so great it's hard to imagine the planet could have survived it. So, there's another theory: that the solar tides on the thick atmosphere have braked Venus down to a standstill and are now spinning'er up in the backward direction. Myself, I think the atmospheric torque is just not big enough to do the job, and since what little we know about the surface of Venus suggests that there are virtually no winds at all at the surface (and you have to have wind to apply atmospheric torque to the surface), I think it's hooey. The math is complex and not entirely convincing. The position of Venus in the Earth's sky cycles in the time it takes Venus to lap the Earth in its orbit, 593.92 Earth days, the synodic period. Oddly, that period is almost 5 Venus days, to be exact, 5.0014 Venus days. This means, annoyingly, that when you're trying to radar map Venus from the Earth at the close approach when you have the highest resolution, you're looking at almost exactly the same patch of Venus you were looking at the last time! Over and over again. The synodic period of Venus, 593.92 Earth days, is almost exactly 8/5ths of an Earth year, so that every eight Earth years the positions of Earth and Venus line up very closely with only a tiny amount of drift in position from cycle to cycle. Every 152 Venus synodic cycles of 593.92 Earth days, the line-up returns to its original precise positions, creating a long cycle of precise repetitions of the positions of Venus and the Earth. This long cycle takes 243.01 Earth years. Now, if the number 243.01 seems familiar, it's because it "happens" to be the length of Venus's axial rotation in Earth days, the sidereal period! The extreme regularity of this cycle of Venusian positions with respect to the Earth creates the long and precisely repeating cycle of Venus's transits of the Sun, meaningless except that these mark the timing of the Sun's passage across the nodes of the mutual plane of Earth's and Venus's orbits. So, how many 243.01 Earth day sidereal periods of Venus does the transit cycle take? Why, 365.24 of them, which "happens" to be the number of days in the Earth year, just as 243.01 is the number of Earth days in the Venus day. Personally, I find that just plain spooky. Officially, these coincidences are just that: coincidences. The Earth and Venus are not in an 8:5 resonance, officially, yet when you either regress or progress the orbits, these regularities do not go away. They drift in and out of greater or lesser regularity for as far as the floating point calculations can go, for millions of years, without any divergence. It is an extremely stable configuration. There was a lot of argument in the 1960's about whether this was "really" a resonance or not, and by the 70's, it was branded an annoying coincidence. Personally, I think it's too neat to be a coincidence, so I was cheered last year when I ran across a AGU paper that calculated that the differences between the atmospheric tidal torques and the solid tidal torques generated by Venus's tiny eccentricity acted to push Venus back and forth and avoid the adjacent two planets falling into a recurring perfect face-to-face lock, Venus with the Earth, by minutely altering the length of Venus' "day"! I stand on "spooky" as the best description of the universe. Oddly, shifting from one dangerous situation to another makes life in the universe fairly safe. The "danger" in a dangerous situation is that you stay in that situation. If two planets have a resonant lock and keep meeting face-to-face, the two will increase the eccentricity (but not the period) of each other's orbit by the slow repetition of tugging at each other every close pass, making each successive pass closer and closer and closer... So it's a good thing that something always messes up that doomed arrangement, like the meddling of Jupiter. These articles about simulations are always interesting, but there are always things that can get overlooked. Take the solar wind. Among other things, when you calculate "backwards," you have to keep changing the mass of the Sun! The solar wind carries mass away from the Sun so that it becomes progressively lighter over long timespans. You have to work out the rate of mass loss and keep adding that mass back into the Sun as you go back millions, even billions, of years in time! This constantly changes the central force in your motion equations. I don't doubt the calculations... exactly. The principal, Laskar, has been doing these simulations for more than 20 years. He says an Earth-Venus bump is the most likely bad news (and that's obvious without a super-computer). They say their model is more accurate "because Laskar and Gastineau's model relies on non-averaged equations and accounts for general relativity." Well, their model is not the first to account for general relativity. The reason that they present the results of many runs of their model is this: even though the math is now accurate enough to calculate long periods, every few million years (about 12) you run into a chaos bottleneck, a "divergence," which is a fork in the road with a 50%-50% chance that one of two paths is correct. What they have done is flipped a coin every 12,000,000 years or so and gone on, then repeated the run and gone the other way this time, with each divergence. So they get statistics, not certainty. 12 times out of 2500 times, the Earth did such and so, they say. What does that "prove"? Anything at all? There is no certainty. On the micro-scale, the universe is quantum chaos. Particles tunnel right through force barriers by de-materializing and re-materializing on the other side. Electrons act like waves one minute and then turn into particles the next instant. God plays dice with the universe; matter transforms at random. It's a mess, Lord. On the macro-scale of everyday life, the universe is deterministic. My computer works (most of the time); my car engine runs; gravity always makes things fall at the same accelerated rate. Objects that act like particles never turn into waves and vanish -- Phfft! It's so orderly. But on the super-macro-scale of deep space and deep time, the universe goes back to being in a state of quantum chaos at a long slow pace, seemingly deterministic until it goes just as random and whacky as the micro-scale universe. As for the solar system, enjoy it while it lasts. Sterling K. Webb --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charley" To: Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:49 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Future Planetary Collision? > Hi List, > > Maybe a bit off topic although lots of meteoroids would be created. > > A French researcher says we may have a collision with Venus or Mars in > 3.5 billion years. > > http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2009-06/11/content_8271159.htm > > > Best regards, > > Charley > > "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's > try elephants !" > > Hannibal > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cmb62 at columbus.rr.com Thu Jun 11 18:22:16 2009 From: cmb62 at columbus.rr.com (Charley) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:22:16 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Future Planetary Collision? In-Reply-To: <3E416EE4212A4827AFC9C17399ABFBD8@ATARIENGINE2> References: <9FEFC38C25074C8DAD14C905C798209F@HAL1> <3E416EE4212A4827AFC9C17399ABFBD8@ATARIENGINE2> Message-ID: Hi Sterling, Thanks for the links and also all the information you provided. The movie is astounding to say the least but even more amazing to me is the "spooky" part about the (non-official) resonance between Venus and The Earth. Wow! Thank you very much for the in depth explanation-I'm sure it took you a lot of time and trouble to put it together and I really appreciate the information. I learn a lot from this list! Best regards, Charley "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's try elephants !" Hannibal Sterling K. Webb wrote: > Hi, Charley, List, > > I'd just spotted the same press release > (it turns out) on Space.com: > http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090610-planets-colllide.html > > The wobbly behavior of the Inner Solar System > is not a new discovery. Here's a movie of the inner > solar system's actual orbital evolution over the last > 3,000,000 years: > http://muller.lbl.gov/pages/innerplanets.html > It can be downloaded directly from here: > http://muller.lbl.gov/images/inner.mov > > The movie that you can view or download from > this page is about 12 Mbytes long, and in .mov > format. I used QuickTime Player (.mov is its native > format) because you can step through it frame by > frame (right/left arrows). Real Player and Windows > Media Player (10) will also play it. You can open it > in a browser window if you have the Quick Time > plugin (takes a bit to download). > > The scale of the animation is not exaggerated > or amplified. If you could sit in space and watch the > inner solar system trace each orbit with a visible > line, this is what you'd see. The units on the edges > of the background plane are AU's. The site rather > modestly says, "Even if you are an expert, you may > be surprised at what you see!" > > "Drunk drivers at NASCAR track" would be > a good title, if you pasted in some little cartoon > racers with sponsor patches. Is this the renowned > "stability" of the solar system we hear so much about? > > And, of course, it IS stable. Nothing has gone > wrong in the last three million years nor for a long > time before that (or has it?). Still, everything just > wobbles like crazy... > > Currently, Venus can approach as close as 24.7 > million miles and Mars as close as 34.7 million miles, > but it would seem that in the past (and future too) > their close approaches could be as near as roughly > half that distance. > > I found this movie to be utterly fascinating (could > be just me). After a few times through it, I would > concentrate on just watching one planet at a time: > Mercury slides back and forth like it was shifting the > Sun from one elliptical focus point to the other; Mars' > orbit expands and contracts; Venus and the Earth > pull up close and flirt with resonance lock; they > all rock back and forth. > > Venus is the one that worries me. The orbit of > Venus has peculiarities, too. Venus's "year" is 224.7 > Earth days. Venus's "day" is 243.01 Earth days. But > because Venus's axial rotation is backward measured > against the Sun and stars, the Venusian "solar day" > is only 116.75 Earth days long. Of course, we could > just as well not describe Venus's rotation as "backward," > but just consider that Venus rotates "normally" but > with its axis turned completely upside-down, by 177.4 > degrees! However you look at it, Venus is the only body > of any size in the solar system to rotate "backward." > > If you regard "normal" rotation as required, as it is, > by most theories of solar system formation, then you > have to invoke a Big Whack to turn Venus upside-down! > That would have to be one heck of a whack, too. The > energy transfer would be so great it's hard to imagine > the planet could have survived it. > > So, there's another theory: that the solar tides on the > thick atmosphere have braked Venus down to a standstill > and are now spinning'er up in the backward direction. > Myself, I think the atmospheric torque is just not big > enough to do the job, and since what little we know about > the surface of Venus suggests that there are virtually no > winds at all at the surface (and you have to have wind to > apply atmospheric torque to the surface), I think it's hooey. > The math is complex and not entirely convincing. > > The position of Venus in the Earth's sky cycles in the > time it takes Venus to lap the Earth in its orbit, 593.92 > Earth days, the synodic period. Oddly, that period is > almost 5 Venus days, to be exact, 5.0014 Venus days. > This means, annoyingly, that when you're trying to > radar map Venus from the Earth at the close approach > when you have the highest resolution, you're looking > at almost exactly the same patch of Venus you were > looking at the last time! Over and over again. > > The synodic period of Venus, 593.92 Earth days, > is almost exactly 8/5ths of an Earth year, so that every > eight Earth years the positions of Earth and Venus line > up very closely with only a tiny amount of drift in position > from cycle to cycle. Every 152 Venus synodic cycles of > 593.92 Earth days, the line-up returns to its original > precise positions, creating a long cycle of precise > repetitions of the positions of Venus and the Earth. > This long cycle takes 243.01 Earth years. > > Now, if the number 243.01 seems familiar, it's > because it "happens" to be the length of Venus's axial > rotation in Earth days, the sidereal period! The extreme > regularity of this cycle of Venusian positions with respect > to the Earth creates the long and precisely repeating > cycle of Venus's transits of the Sun, meaningless except > that these mark the timing of the Sun's passage across > the nodes of the mutual plane of Earth's and Venus's orbits. > > So, how many 243.01 Earth day sidereal periods of > Venus does the transit cycle take? Why, 365.24 of them, > which "happens" to be the number of days in the Earth > year, just as 243.01 is the number of Earth days in the > Venus day. > > Personally, I find that just plain spooky. Officially, these > coincidences are just that: coincidences. The Earth and > Venus are not in an 8:5 resonance, officially, yet when you > either regress or progress the orbits, these regularities > do not go away. They drift in and out of greater or lesser > regularity for as far as the floating point calculations can > go, for millions of years, without any divergence. It is an > extremely stable configuration. > > There was a lot of argument in the 1960's about whether > this was "really" a resonance or not, and by the 70's, it was > branded an annoying coincidence. Personally, I think it's > too neat to be a coincidence, so I was cheered last year when > I ran across a AGU paper that calculated that the differences > between the atmospheric tidal torques and the solid tidal > torques generated by Venus's tiny eccentricity acted to push > Venus back and forth and avoid the adjacent two planets > falling into a recurring perfect face-to-face lock, Venus with > the Earth, by minutely altering the length of Venus' "day"! > > I stand on "spooky" as the best description of the > universe. Oddly, shifting from one dangerous situation > to another makes life in the universe fairly safe. The "danger" > in a dangerous situation is that you stay in that situation. > If two planets have a resonant lock and keep meeting > face-to-face, the two will increase the eccentricity (but > not the period) of each other's orbit by the slow repetition > of tugging at each other every close pass, making each > successive pass closer and closer and closer... So it's a > good thing that something always messes up that doomed > arrangement, like the meddling of Jupiter. > > These articles about simulations are always interesting, > but there are always things that can get overlooked. Take > the solar wind. Among other things, when you calculate > "backwards," you have to keep changing the mass of the > Sun! The solar wind carries mass away from the Sun so > that it becomes progressively lighter over long timespans. > You have to work out the rate of mass loss and keep > adding that mass back into the Sun as you go back > millions, even billions, of years in time! This constantly > changes the central force in your motion equations. > > I don't doubt the calculations... exactly. The principal, > Laskar, has been doing these simulations for more than > 20 years. He says an Earth-Venus bump is the most likely > bad news (and that's obvious without a super-computer). > They say their model is more accurate "because Laskar > and Gastineau's model relies on non-averaged equations and accounts > for general relativity." Well, their model is not the first to > account for general relativity. The reason that they present > the results of many runs of their model is this: even though > the math is now accurate enough to calculate long periods, > every few million years (about 12) you run into a chaos > bottleneck, a "divergence," which is a fork in the road with > a 50%-50% chance that one of two paths is correct. > > What they have done is flipped a coin every 12,000,000 > years or so and gone on, then repeated the run and gone > the other way this time, with each divergence. So they > get statistics, not certainty. 12 times out of 2500 times, > the Earth did such and so, they say. What does that > "prove"? Anything at all? > > There is no certainty. On the micro-scale, the universe > is quantum chaos. Particles tunnel right through force > barriers by de-materializing and re-materializing on the other > side. Electrons act like waves one minute and then turn into > particles the next instant. God plays dice with the universe; > matter transforms at random. It's a mess, Lord. > > On the macro-scale of everyday life, the universe is > deterministic. My computer works (most of the time); my > car engine runs; gravity always makes things fall at the > same accelerated rate. Objects that act like particles never > turn into waves and vanish -- Phfft! It's so orderly. > > But on the super-macro-scale of deep space and deep > time, the universe goes back to being in a state of quantum > chaos at a long slow pace, seemingly deterministic until it > goes just as random and whacky as the micro-scale universe. > > As for the solar system, enjoy it while it lasts. > > > Sterling K. Webb > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charley" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:49 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Future Planetary Collision? > > >> Hi List, >> >> Maybe a bit off topic although lots of meteoroids would be created. >> >> A French researcher says we may have a collision with Venus or Mars in >> 3.5 billion years. >> >> http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2009-06/11/content_8271159.htm >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Charley >> >> "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's >> try elephants !" >> >> Hannibal >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 19:59:23 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Military intelligence-- still an oxymoron. Message-ID: <667233.62573.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Who knows what justification was used but I've got a pretty good idea I know what the real reason is. For 4 months I've had weekly phone calls with AF Personnel all over the globe and against all belief I very much suspected that something had gone dark. As to the article someone somewhere in the "Gouffment" will have issued a press release--tranparency and all that. Rhymes with AFLAC I expect. Then again I might have prompted it by making all those Freedom of Information Act fireball data requests. In the (g)olden days of fireball reports, the data was sanitized (like GPS signals used to be deliberately degraded) to make the data useful but to not to give away the collecting asset's (RID)capabilities. Dr Peter Brown used to post the releases but rumor has it he moved to a foreign but more meteoritically progressive country...Canada I think it was. This will probably get me a visit from a "Yo'Mama Administration Homey-Land Dark Suit-Squad" but what the heck!... I estimate by this day and age we can probably count nosecone rivets during assent on the other side of the globe and detect when an un-named Lunatic National Leader of an un-named Northern Division of a divided country in Asia lights up his weed bong. Elton --- On Thu, 6/11/09, Fries, Marc D wrote: ??My favorite part > is this: The upshot: Space rocks that explode in the atmosphere are now classified. > > Yeah, that's it.? You're not allowed to know that > meteors exist.? Why, that makes perfect sense, and I'm sure that's exactly how the rule change was phrased. > > It seems more likely that someone decided that a clever > observer could discern important details about our technical capabilities from the information handed out to meteor watchers and decided to clamp down.? It may be a temporary change while they review the policy, but you can't tell from that magnificent piece of professional journalism. > > Magnificent. From meteoritemike at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 20:40:45 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:40:45 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? Message-ID: Hi Listees! About 2 hours ago, I was uploading photos and entries into my collection on the Encyclopedia of Meteorites site, and then I stopped to go run an errand. When I came back about 10 minutes ago, I tried going back to the Encyclopedia site and continue entering my collection - now the site is giving some weird error message. Is anyone else having the same problem? Is it leftover bugs from the switchover in software? BTW, the new interface looks and behaves great in all other respects. Nice job to Norbert and crew for pulling it off. :) Best regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From stm at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 11 20:48:03 2009 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:48:03 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5AC18B5CBE8A4A028CF1247434481179@Platinum2> Looks like the asp is gone for login... I tried to access the root and got an error... it could be because it expects the asp, and they never added a redirect for the default... Server Error in '/' Application. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Required permissions cannot be acquired. Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code. Exception Details: System.Security.Policy.PolicyException: Required permissions cannot be acquired. Source Error: An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? > Hi Listees! > > About 2 hours ago, I was uploading photos and entries into my > collection on the Encyclopedia of Meteorites site, and then I stopped > to go run an errand. When I came back about 10 minutes ago, I tried > going back to the Encyclopedia site and continue entering my > collection - now the site is giving some weird error message. Is > anyone else having the same problem? Is it leftover bugs from the > switchover in software? > > BTW, the new interface looks and behaves great in all other respects. > Nice job to Norbert and crew for pulling it off. :) > > Best regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bcmeteorites at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 21:07:19 2009 From: bcmeteorites at gmail.com (bcmeteorites) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:07:19 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? In-Reply-To: <5AC18B5CBE8A4A028CF1247434481179@Platinum2> Message-ID: Mike, Sean, and List The new Encyclopedia of Meteorites is still in the final configuration stages and you should have received the following message: "Web site is currently off line. We are moving the website to our new hosting provider. It will take a few days. We expect be back with our new version on June 15, 2009. Thank you for understanding!" The site should be up and fully functional soon! Bob Falls "Part of the crew working on new Encyclopedia of Meteorites" -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Sean T. Murray Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:48 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? Looks like the asp is gone for login... I tried to access the root and got an error... it could be because it expects the asp, and they never added a redirect for the default... Server Error in '/' Application. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Required permissions cannot be acquired. Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code. Exception Details: System.Security.Policy.PolicyException: Required permissions cannot be acquired. Source Error: An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? > Hi Listees! > > About 2 hours ago, I was uploading photos and entries into my > collection on the Encyclopedia of Meteorites site, and then I stopped > to go run an errand. When I came back about 10 minutes ago, I tried > going back to the Encyclopedia site and continue entering my > collection - now the site is giving some weird error message. Is > anyone else having the same problem? Is it leftover bugs from the > switchover in software? > > BTW, the new interface looks and behaves great in all other respects. > Nice job to Norbert and crew for pulling it off. :) > > Best regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 21:19:45 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay user name change. Message-ID: <93740.54058.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi to all, I have changed my ebay user ID. It is now WanderingStarMeteorites the "star_wars_coiiector" is not being used anymore. Just to let everyone know. When you want to see what I have for sale, you will now need to use this link: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1 Hope everyone is having a good day, We have had over 4 inches of rain here today, the walmart parking lot had 3 inches of standing water earlier! Greg C. From grf2 at verizon.net Thu Jun 11 21:54:57 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:54:57 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 11, 2009 References: Message-ID: What a great photo of a classic specimen. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:21 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 11, 2009 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_11_2009.html > > __________________________ > > **************Dell Deals: Don?t miss huge summer savings on popular > laptops > starting at $449. > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B > i) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From tricottetcoll at live.com Fri Jun 12 04:03:11 2009 From: tricottetcoll at live.com (The Tricottet Collection) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:03:11 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Gao, Park Forest, St Michel and Weston Message-ID: Dear list members, I have the following meteorites available - Please make offer if interested. Thank you, ArnaudM * Gao ideal lot: 439 g stone with brown patina, 27.24 g full slice with old label from unk. coll., 11.71 g bullet with roll-over rim (the best I have ever seen) * Park Forest: 27.1 g full slice, spectacular display * St Michel: 16.33 g crusted fragment, from the Helsinki natural history museum (no label) * Weston: 8.92 g crusted fragment, from the historic 2007 Bonhams auction "Historic Meteorites and Related Americana" (comes with catalog) _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From meteoriteshow at free.fr Fri Jun 12 06:37:08 2009 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:37:08 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday Message-ID: <011201c9eb49$bd7cea30$0300a8c0@T42> Dear Listees, Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow They include: 1- Gao-Guenie - H5 - 4.3g ORIENTED individual: dimensions 17x12x11mm. Complete individual offered as found from the strewnfield. STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330334399864 2- SAH 02500 L3 - 503.6g - 5 pces, weighing respectively: 153.45g + 124.95g + 99.67g + 81.77g + 43.71g. ALL of them are partially fusion crusted, some of them display quite big chondrules at the surface... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330334399883 3- Sikhote-Alin IRON IIAB - 12.6g oriented individual: diemensions 21x14x10mm. Great orientation, with "flow lips" on the backside to the shield. STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330334399912 Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!! Kind regards, Frederic Beroud http://www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/) From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Fri Jun 12 11:07:35 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:07:35 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fallen Message-ID: <001a01c9eb6f$85f2f840$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Another meteorite video... http://www.ehrensenf.de/linktipps/meteorit-genie%C3%9Ft-absturz Martin From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 12:07:18 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:07:18 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? In-Reply-To: References: <5AC18B5CBE8A4A028CF1247434481179@Platinum2> Message-ID: Hi Bob, Thanks for the update - I now see the correct message about the hosting switch. Good luck with the migration and I look forward to seeing the grand re-opening. :) Best regards, MikeG On 6/11/09, bcmeteorites wrote: > Mike, Sean, and List > The new Encyclopedia of Meteorites is still in the final configuration > stages and you should > have received the following message: > "Web site is currently off line. > We are moving the website to our new hosting provider. It will take a few > days. > We expect be back with our new version on June 15, 2009. > Thank you for understanding!" > > The site should be up and fully functional soon! > > Bob Falls > "Part of the crew working on new Encyclopedia of Meteorites" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Sean T. > Murray > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:48 PM > To: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? > > > Looks like the asp is gone for login... I tried to access the root and got > an error... it could be because it expects the asp, and they never added a > redirect for the default... > > Server Error in '/' Application. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Required permissions cannot be acquired. > Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the > current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information > about the error and where it originated in the code. > > Exception Details: System.Security.Policy.PolicyException: Required > permissions cannot be acquired. > > Source Error: > > An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web > request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can > be identified using the exception stack trace below. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" > To: "Meteorite List" > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:40 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? > > >> Hi Listees! >> >> About 2 hours ago, I was uploading photos and entries into my >> collection on the Encyclopedia of Meteorites site, and then I stopped >> to go run an errand. When I came back about 10 minutes ago, I tried >> going back to the Encyclopedia site and continue entering my >> collection - now the site is giving some weird error message. Is >> anyone else having the same problem? Is it leftover bugs from the >> switchover in software? >> >> BTW, the new interface looks and behaves great in all other respects. >> Nice job to Norbert and crew for pulling it off. :) >> >> Best regards and clear skies, >> >> MikeG >> >> >> -- >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jun 12 13:01:39 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:01:39 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fallen In-Reply-To: <001a01c9eb6f$85f2f840$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <001a01c9eb6f$85f2f840$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <4A3289F3.50706@meteoritesusa.com> Awesome! Martin Altmann wrote: > Another meteorite video... > > http://www.ehrensenf.de/linktipps/meteorit-genie%C3%9Ft-absturz > > > Martin > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From illaenus at wp.pl Fri Jun 12 13:04:31 2009 From: illaenus at wp.pl (Tomasz Jakubowski) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:04:31 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Esquel slice Message-ID: <4a328a9fd7eab2.89145973@wp.pl> Dear List Members, I have nice Esquel transparent slice for sale, weight 102.3 grams. Size 130x81x2 mm. Photos are here : http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/Esquel1023GramsSlcie# Also, 1146 grams of hand chosen, complete Gao-Gunie specimens (more than 200 not cleaned individuals!) : http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/GaoS# If You are interest please write mo my email address : illaenus at gmail.com Kind Regards Tomasz Jakubowski IMCA #2321 ---------------------------------------------------- 19 Mi?dzynarodowy Festiwal Teatralny MALTA, Pozna? 23-27/06. W programie m.in. Nine Inch Nails i Jane's Addiction z Peaches. - Szczeg??y: http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fcorto.www.wp.pl%2Fas%2Fnin.html&sid=763 From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jun 12 13:20:04 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:20:04 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? In-Reply-To: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> Hi Listees, The story has gone worldwide fast... The reports are merely repeating what the original report stated and from what I can see there is no verification... Skeptical? Is anyone else researching this? Maybe one of our German friends on-list might lend a hand and call the local paper there that first broke the story and see if they can get an interview with the boy to help confirm or verify what actually happened? ---------------------------------------------- Yahoo News UK: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090612/tod-boy-hit-by-meteorite-travelling-at-3-870a197.html Space.com: http://www.space.com/news/090612-boy-hit-by-meteorite.html FoxNews.com http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525992,00.html SkyNews.com http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Boy-Hit-On-Arm-By-White-Hot-Meteorite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos=World_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251_Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot Daily Telegraph: Australia http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25625253-5012895,00.html --------------------------------------------- Has there been confirmation yet? If... And this is a BIG IF. If this is a real story and th boy really did get hit with a meteorite there could be more meteorite on th ground. This would be a very famous fall to recover if it turns out to be verifiable! Can anyone confirm? Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA Meteorites USA wrote: > Hi all, > > This just in... > > Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. > > ------------------------------------------ > > "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing > 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." > > Meteor hits boy on way to school > Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET > > ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, > and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche > Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on > my hand.? > > The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but > Blank knew something special had happened to him. > > ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from > the heat as it went by me,? he said. > > After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a > sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from > his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school > with him. > > ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His > parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. > > Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested > the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble > is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. > > Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. > > SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html > > ------------------------------------------- > > Another site reports: > > SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky > > SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. > A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the > sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white > cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm > cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it > and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? > Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. > > SOURCE: > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news-ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > > > -------------------------------------------- > > So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? > > Anyone else have any info? > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 13:30:24 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:30:24 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites in situ In-Reply-To: <1195869.159541244392268269.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> References: <1195869.159541244392268269.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Message-ID: Hi Svend and List! I finally got a chance to sit down and read this excellent article. Outstanding job. Very good photos as well. Thanks for sharing this. :) Best regards, MikeG On 6/7/09, Meteorite-Recon.com wrote: > Good evening everybody, > > Those of you dedicated to the search and recovery of meteorites from hot > deserts might be interested in a little feature on some common > characteristics of these finds. A number of in situ images are included: > > Part 1: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_1.htm > > Part 2: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_2.htm > > Thanks for your interest. > > Cheers > > Svend > > -- > www.meteorite-recon.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Fri Jun 12 13:34:33 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:34:33 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? In-Reply-To: <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Ja but they're changing the story to make it more interesting. Read from U.K. "Chemical tests on the rock have now proved it is from outer space. Ansgar Korte, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: "It's a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and scientists." And here is the original, they're referring to: http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/essen/2009/6/9/news-122291315/de tail.html Where Korte is quoted:" If it's really a true meteorite, then the specimen will have a certain value for collectors and mineralogists" And in the following he recommends places, where the stone could be tested, whether it is a meteorite. That story of course is rubbish. A prank, not more. Martin Btw. it seems to be a boy... -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Meteorites USA Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Juni 2009 19:20 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? Hi Listees, The story has gone worldwide fast... The reports are merely repeating what the original report stated and from what I can see there is no verification... Skeptical? Is anyone else researching this? Maybe one of our German friends on-list might lend a hand and call the local paper there that first broke the story and see if they can get an interview with the boy to help confirm or verify what actually happened? ---------------------------------------------- Yahoo News UK: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090612/tod-boy-hit-by-meteorite-travelling-at-3 -870a197.html Space.com: http://www.space.com/news/090612-boy-hit-by-meteorite.html FoxNews.com http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525992,00.html SkyNews.com http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Boy-Hit-On-Arm-By-White-Hot-Mete orite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos=W orld_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251_ Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot Daily Telegraph: Australia http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25625253-5012895,00.html --------------------------------------------- Has there been confirmation yet? If... And this is a BIG IF. If this is a real story and th boy really did get hit with a meteorite there could be more meteorite on th ground. This would be a very famous fall to recover if it turns out to be verifiable! Can anyone confirm? Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA Meteorites USA wrote: > Hi all, > > This just in... > > Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. > > ------------------------------------------ > > "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing > 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." > > Meteor hits boy on way to school > Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET > > ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, > and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche > Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on > my hand.? > > The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but > Blank knew something special had happened to him. > > ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from > the heat as it went by me,? he said. > > After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a > sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from > his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school > with him. > > ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His > parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. > > Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested > the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble > is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. > > Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. > > SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html > > ------------------------------------------- > > Another site reports: > > SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky > > SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. > A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the > sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white > cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm > cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it > and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? > Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. > > SOURCE: > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news- ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > > > -------------------------------------------- > > So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? > > Anyone else have any info? > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From waltbranch at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 12 14:27:56 2009 From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:27:56 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fallen References: <001a01c9eb6f$85f2f840$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <4A3289F3.50706@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <9F27A442975A494CBF45AF09EBB434FE@yourf78bf48ce2> That is neat. My 10 year old loved it! -Walter Branch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" To: Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fallen > Awesome! > > > Martin Altmann wrote: >> Another meteorite video... >> >> http://www.ehrensenf.de/linktipps/meteorit-genie%C3%9Ft-absturz >> >> >> Martin >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From korotev at wustl.edu Fri Jun 12 15:01:08 2009 From: korotev at wustl.edu (Randy Korotev) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:01:08 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Goran Lindfors Message-ID: <200906121859.n5CIxLO00118@levee.wustl.edu> Several list members have contacted me saying that they recieved a message from Mr. Goran Lindfors of Sweden staing that I had done a chemical analysis of his alleged lunar meteorites "showing [them] to be of perfect Lunar origin !!!" Here's the full story: http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m098.htm Bottom line: The chemical composition of Mr. Lindfors rocks is perfectly consistent with a terrestrial origin but totally inconsistent with a lunar origin. ~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+ Randy L. Korotev Research Professor Washington University in Saint Louis Department of Earth & Planetary Sciences Everything you need to know about lunar meteorites: http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites.htm From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 15:04:36 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:04:36 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Goran Lindfors In-Reply-To: <200906121859.n5CIxLO00118@levee.wustl.edu> References: <200906121859.n5CIxLO00118@levee.wustl.edu> Message-ID: Hi List, Is this guy up to his old tricks again? He must figure if he casts out the bait enough times, someone will swallow it. Is there nothing the authorities can do on the Swedish side? Surely mail fraud is illegal over there as well. Best regards, MikeG On 6/12/09, Randy Korotev wrote: > Several list members have contacted me saying that they recieved a > message from Mr. Goran Lindfors of Sweden staing that I had done a > chemical analysis of his alleged lunar meteorites "showing [them] to > be of perfect Lunar origin !!!" > > Here's the full story: > > http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m098.htm > > Bottom line: The chemical composition of Mr. Lindfors rocks is > perfectly consistent with a terrestrial origin but totally > inconsistent with a lunar origin. > > > ~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+ > Randy L. Korotev > Research Professor > Washington University in Saint Louis > Department of Earth & Planetary Sciences > > Everything you need to know about lunar meteorites: > http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites.htm > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From grf2 at verizon.net Fri Jun 12 15:21:20 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:21:20 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fallen References: <001a01c9eb6f$85f2f840$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <7265894055B44FC7B0460FAEA9008A20@ASUS> Finally, indisputable validation of panspermia! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 11:07 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fallen > Another meteorite video... > > http://www.ehrensenf.de/linktipps/meteorit-genie%C3%9Ft-absturz > > > Martin > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Fri Jun 12 16:11:53 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:11:53 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 12, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_12_2009.html __________________________ **************Shop Dell?s full line of Laptops now starting at $349! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221881320x1201406166/aol?redir=http:%2F%2 Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215218036%3B37264217%3Bz) From mlblood at cox.net Fri Jun 12 18:12:18 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:12:18 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q In-Reply-To: <9F27A442975A494CBF45AF09EBB434FE@yourf78bf48ce2> Message-ID: Re: Mayo Belwa Please contact me off list if you have any for sale or know Anyone who does..... Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it costs So much? RSVP Thanks, Michael From mlblood at cox.net Fri Jun 12 20:12:17 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:12:17 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to Mike G. for the following: ----- " Mayo is a witnessed fall aubrite and the majority of it sits in the Nigerian Geological Survey Office. Relatively little is in collections. US Nat His in Washington has less than 200 grams and American Nat His in New York has about 600. The Chicago Field Museum only has 15 grams...... it's one of those obscure falls of a single stone and the main mass is locked up. You can probably count the private dealers in the entire world with this fall on one hand." ----------------- While the bulk of this post is, to the best of my knowledge, Accurate, there is only one other dealer has ANY and she got it from me! (.6g) AND THAT IS THE ONLY PIECE I HAVE EVER SEEN (got it in a trade over a decade ago from a fellow with excellent reputation who dealt with the few "honest" dealers out there (there were only about 6 in Those days). Several have contacted me to inform me she had this .6g piece, But I already knew that. All of this happened so very long ago, I had no Idea the value of the piece I had. However, I now have a 2 gram specimen that came from the Oscar Monnig Collection at TCU and INCLUDES THE CARD that came with it. If anyone has any interest or any idea what it is worth or would like to see The photo, please contact me off list. Best wishes, Michael > From: Michael Blood > Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:12:18 -0700 > To: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q > > Re: Mayo Belwa > Please contact me off list if you have any for sale or know > Anyone who does..... > Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it costs > So much? > RSVP > Thanks, Michael > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mail at mhmeteorites.com Fri Jun 12 20:16:06 2009 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 00:16:06 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa Message-ID: <2063960140-1244852175-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-36080571-@bxe1050.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Ron Farrell has some :) ------Original Message------ From: Michael Blood Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com To: Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa Sent: Jun 12, 2009 6:12 PM Thanks to Mike G. for the following: ----- " Mayo is a witnessed fall aubrite and the majority of it sits in the Nigerian Geological Survey Office. Relatively little is in collections. US Nat His in Washington has less than 200 grams and American Nat His in New York has about 600. The Chicago Field Museum only has 15 grams...... it's one of those obscure falls of a single stone and the main mass is locked up. You can probably count the private dealers in the entire world with this fall on one hand." ----------------- While the bulk of this post is, to the best of my knowledge, Accurate, there is only one other dealer has ANY and she got it from me! (.6g) AND THAT IS THE ONLY PIECE I HAVE EVER SEEN (got it in a trade over a decade ago from a fellow with excellent reputation who dealt with the few "honest" dealers out there (there were only about 6 in Those days). Several have contacted me to inform me she had this .6g piece, But I already knew that. All of this happened so very long ago, I had no Idea the value of the piece I had. However, I now have a 2 gram specimen that came from the Oscar Monnig Collection at TCU and INCLUDES THE CARD that came with it. If anyone has any interest or any idea what it is worth or would like to see The photo, please contact me off list. Best wishes, Michael > From: Michael Blood > Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:12:18 -0700 > To: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q > > Re: Mayo Belwa > Please contact me off list if you have any for sale or know > Anyone who does..... > Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it costs > So much? > RSVP > Thanks, Michael > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 21:15:27 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:15:27 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Oriented UNWA Diamonds in the Rough - Photos Message-ID: Hi List! I thought I would share some oriented stones from my UNWA box. Here are 3 unclassified stones. The biggest I call the "Briquette" because it's shape reminds me of a charcoal briquette. (Cosmic Kingsford?) It weighs 90 grams and has many chondrules visible on the surface. There is just enough crust on it remaining to reveal the delicate flowlines radiating away from the leading face and towards the broken backside. It's a pity this stone arrived to me broken - it would have been nice to have the bubbly backside, instead there is a portion of the backside and a remnant of rollover lip - the rest is exposed matrix that is coated with wind polished desert varnish. 90 gram oriented briquette profile view with flowlines - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/flowlines-biscuit.jpg Another view of the briquette - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/oriented-biscuit-1.jpg Notice the plentiful chondrules - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/oriented-biscuit-a.jpg The second stone is a tiny bullet or mushroom shape. It has a prominent rollover lip and bubbly backside texture. Any traces of flowlines on the leading face or edge have been removed by weathering. Some fine rivulets are just visible on the backside, but they don't come out well in photos and are better seen with a loupe. This unclassified stone weighs 4.15 grams. Tiny bullet - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/bullet-side.jpg Bullet leading face - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/bullet-front.jpg Bullet backside - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/bullet-rear.jpg Lastly, I have an unclassified heat shield stone. This stone weighs 16 grams and has a classic "bubbly" backside, partial rollover rim, and faint remnants of flowlines near the lip. Heatshield leading face - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/shield-front.jpg Heatshield backside - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/shield-rear-2.jpg The 90-gram briquette is a keeper, but I would trade the 2 smaller stones if the offer is right. If anyone is interested, contact me offlist. Regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 21:54:39 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:54:39 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite type/fall dealer pricing list Message-ID: Hi List, A while back, someone on the list published a list of prices that various dealers charge for certain meteorite types and falls. As I recall, one paid about $5 and received a copy via email. Can someone point me to the author or a copy of the report. I'd like to see/buy. :) Best regards, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 12 22:17:29 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:17:29 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for small Brenhams Message-ID: Hello All, Does anyone have small pieces, 1 gram or less of the Brenham pallasite? It does not neccessarily have to be sliced or/and etched. Small fragments may do. Just enough to impress but I don't want to spend a lot. I may add a coat of lacquer if I think they may rust or on your recommendation. I have a friend at work who has seen the show, Meteorite Men ( I haven't seen it yet), and has shown an interest in meteorites. He watches shows on Discovery, Science and History Channel on meteorites so may be a bit more knowledgable than most on the subject. At least he knows who Bob Haag, Geoff and Steve are. I have also given him and his brother stones that I had extras in the past. His brother also works there and is his partner so I can't give just one person a gift. Who knows if one or the other might get more serious in the hobby? Btw, they both think I'm a bit nuts when I tell them my collection is approaching 400 localities. Maybe not a good thing to tell them since it is so addicting. Please contact me off list for prices. My email address should be on top of this post. I'm open to other pallasites or anything else if the Brenham is not available. Thanks. Carl _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 From mikewren at gilanet.com Sat Jun 13 00:41:57 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:41:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: #3 June- NEW- GRIFFITH Summary- Many Smaller Pieces Added- By Popular Demand! Message-ID: <4E92A990-50CA-4F62-886E-768CE502E473@gilanet.com> Hello I decided to use up one of my ads for the month June for this second announcement concerning my New Griffith Meteorite. I have had at least 15 requests for smaller slices, especially under 10 grams. Well, I spent 6 hours today cutting, polishing and creating smaller affordable slices. When these smaller slices are gone-that is it. I will not be cutting any more down. Please take this opportunity to get yours now. http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From info at mcomemeteorite.it Sat Jun 13 00:54:14 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 06:54:14 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa Message-ID: <4a3330f6.34c.52b3.282569575@webmaildh4.aruba.it> just 2 days ago we have take some photos via SEM of Diopside crystals present in a cavity of my Mayo Belwa piece http://i43.tinypic.com/14l27x1.jpg http://i44.tinypic.com/2yxjh4l.jpg http://i42.tinypic.com/20pa88i.jpg and this crystals of probably Molybdenite http://i43.tinypic.com/oh6xzk.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/9pri0x.jpg Matteo ----- Original Message ----- Da : "Matt Morgan" A : "Michael Blood" , meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com, "Meteorite List" Oggetto : Re: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa Data : Sat, 13 Jun 2009 00:16:06 +0000 > Ron Farrell has some :) > ------Original Message------ > From: Michael Blood > Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > To: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa > Sent: Jun 12, 2009 6:12 PM > > Thanks to Mike G. for the following: > ----- > " Mayo is a witnessed fall aubrite and the majority of it > sits in the Nigerian Geological Survey Office. Relatively > little is in collections. US Nat His in Washington has > less than 200 grams and American Nat His in New York has > about 600. The Chicago Field Museum only has 15 > grams...... it's one of those obscure falls of a single > stone and the main mass is locked up. You can probably > count the private dealers in the entire world with this > fall on one hand." ----------------- > While the bulk of this post is, to the best of my > knowledge, Accurate, there is only one other dealer has > ANY and she got it from me! (.6g) AND THAT IS THE ONLY > PIECE I HAVE EVER SEEN (got it in a trade over a decade > ago from a fellow with excellent reputation who dealt with > the few "honest" dealers out there (there were only about > 6 in Those days). Several have contacted me to inform me > she had this .6g piece, But I already knew that. All of > this happened so very long ago, I had no Idea the value of > the piece I had. > However, I now have a 2 gram specimen that came > from the Oscar Monnig Collection at TCU and INCLUDES THE > CARD that came with it. If anyone has any interest or any > idea what it is worth or would like to see The photo, > please contact me off list. > Best wishes, Michael > > > > > From: Michael Blood > > Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:12:18 -0700 > > To: Meteorite List > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q > > > > Re: Mayo Belwa > > Please contact me off list if you have any for sale > > or know Anyone who does..... > > Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it > > costs So much? > > RSVP > > Thanks, Michael > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > Matt Morgan > Mile High Meteorites > http://www.mhmeteorites.com > P.O. Box 151293 > Lakewood, CO 80215 USA > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.org Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com From mlblood at cox.net Sat Jun 13 07:11:15 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 04:11:15 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] RSVP re Info needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have info for Sonny Clary & Pete Sugar Right now. I have periodically needed email addresses To pass on info to many, many people on my Friends Page. Of course, I also need everyone who was on my Sales List. As you may recall, I lost ALL email information just before Tucson. I have asked for everyone to email me their email Address so I can contact them as needed, but NO ONE Has done so. Many people are missing out on communications >From me - many of which would be to their own benifit. Please email your email address to me with "Email Address" In the "Subject" box. Thanks, Michael From jnbran at verizon.net Sat Jun 13 10:03:44 2009 From: jnbran at verizon.net (JASON PHILLIPS) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 09:03:44 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: 100kg Brenham In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello List, I am offering for sale a world class meteorite specimen that would enhance even some of the finest museums in the world. It is a 100 kg Brenham complete individual that I got from Steve Arnold about two years ago. It displays orientation and was found by Steve Arnold and Dr. Ebel of the American Museum of Natural History. It is very stable with no rusting problems, at all, and is an all around great looking specimen. I am looking to let it go for much less than even the wholesale price, and most assuredly cheaper than any other pallasite around. If you check out eBay it has been selling for $2-$10/gram in sliced form and this specimen is only a fraction of the lower end. It comes with a letter of authenticity from Steve Arnold, in situ pictures of Dr. Ebel and Steve retrieving it, and a dark cherry wooden stand. If you are interested in discussing this specimen and desire to see pictures please contact me. Interesting trades will also be considered. Take Care and Thanks, Jason Phillips Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com 217-832-4505- telephone From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat Jun 13 11:04:13 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 11:04:13 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : Meteorite Garage Sale! - UNWA, Impactites, Impact Glasses, More Books! Message-ID: Hi Listees! This weekend only (ends Monday morning) - I am having a 25%-off sale on everything in my store. New Items : (remember - you get 25% off the prices shown - discount shows up at checkout) Dark "crackly" crust UNWA stone - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126503/Big-110-gram-Fresh-Black-Crust-Stone-Meteorite_779707.html HUGE Sudbury Shattercone - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126511/HUGE-Sudbury-Crater-Shattercone-Museum-quality-Specimen_782979.html MAPS Journals - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/152033/MAPS--Journal-of-Meteoritics-Planetary-Science--Apr-2009_784436.html http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/152033/MAPS--Journal-of-Meteoritics-Planetary-Science--Feb-2009_780197.html http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/152033/MAPS--Journal-of-Meteoritics-Planetary-Science--Jan-2009_780189.html Sudbury Black Onaping - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126511/Polished-Slice-of-Sudbury-Black-Onaping--Impactite_782985.html Ries Flaedle Bomb - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126511/Ries-Crater--Glass-Flaedle-Impact-Bomb--Impactite_782982.html Stones from the Stars meteorite book (signed by author) - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/152033/Stones-from-the-Stars--The-Unsolved-Mysteries-of-Meteorites_780173.html Don't forget - I have digital scales, rare earth magnets, and jeweler's loupes - http://www.galactic-stone.com/products/Meteorite-Supplies_126515/? Lastly - I have several eBay auctions running that will close today and tomorrow (Sunday). eBay Highlights include - Meteorite Collector's Toolkit - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290322804459 Moon Rock & Mars Rock Display Set - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290322798650 Silicated Campo del Cielo slice - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290322799917 Thin-sliced tektite slice (closing in just 3 hours!) - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290322464181 TO GET THE ONLINE STORE DISCOUNT - USE THIS COUPON CODE AT CHECKOUT - "metlist" (the coupon code is case sensitive - all one word and all lowercase) http://www.galactic-stone.com Thanks for looking and clear skies! MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From spacerocksinc at aol.com Sat Jun 13 18:45:13 2009 From: spacerocksinc at aol.com (spacerocksinc at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:45:13 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: Large GAO - 757 grams Message-ID: <2063465927-1244933018-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-643328890-@bxe1120.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Taking offers on the following: http://www.spacerocksinc.com/Gao_sale.html Thanks for looking, Michael Darrell Johnson Thumbed from my BlackBerry From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 13 18:53:35 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 17:53:35 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Sale Meteorite Auctions ending on ebay this weekend and new Specimens added, Lake Murray, Oklahoma, Norton County, Miles-Australia, Tatahouine, plus Mighei, and Murchison Message-ID: <033301c9ec79$ca1288a0$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Hello fellow Meteorite Collectors I hope you're having a Great Weekend! Please click on the link here to my seller's page for some great meteorites I've listed today and some that end this weekend Thanks for looking, clear skies and happy hunting Brian Cox searchingforfun is my ebay User Id......please click on the link below to go to my seller's page with all the meteorites below http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/searchingforfun_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MURCHISON Meteorite Australia .010 g COA IMCA RARE CM2 (270404738684) MURCHISON Meteorite Australia .013 g COA IMCA RARE CM2 (270404742792) NWA 753 Meteorite Morocco .292 g COA IMCA RARE R3.9 (280355604633) CHINGA Meteorite USSR 119 g COA IMCA Iron Ataxite IVB-U (270404778560) MIGHEI Meteorite Ukraine 1.418g COA IMCA CM2 VERY RARE (280355684922) NORTON COUNTY Meteorites 2.20g COAs IMCA AUBRITE Crust (270407214171) TATAHOUINE Meteorite The Green Met 1.992g COA IMCA ADIO (270407242094) MILES Meteorite Iron IIE Sili Australia .199g COA IMCA (280357412012) GHUBARA Meteorites 13.47g COA IMCA Xenolithic CRUST (280357784040) LAKE MURRAY Meteorite 2.37 g COA IMCA IIAB RARE NICE (270408239282) thanks for looking! Brian IMCA # 6387 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sat Jun 13 22:15:57 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:15:57 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 13, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_13_2009.html __________________________ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377049x1201454365/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) From tett at rogers.com Sat Jun 13 22:30:39 2009 From: tett at rogers.com (Tettenborn) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:30:39 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 13, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A3460CF.6040706@rogers.com> As we look into the clouds we can see many images and so I see one in this sky of stone. (Sorry, have been reading Audin and Hardy tonight) Anyone else see the angry man? Cheers! tett SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com wrote: > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_13_2009.html > > __________________________ > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377049x1201454365/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JunestepsfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From freequarks at gmail.com Sat Jun 13 23:37:07 2009 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 21:37:07 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <822da19a0906132037w3c0b1b87ia696b33a6ee5a223@mail.gmail.com> Hello Michael, I have a 6g+ fragment of Mayo Belwa. Here's a pic. http://www.geocities.com/planetwhy/mayobelwa.jpg best, Martin On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > Thanks to Mike G. for the following: > ----- > " Mayo is a witnessed fall aubrite and the majority of it sits in the > Nigerian Geological Survey Office. ?Relatively little is in > collections. ?US Nat His in Washington has less than 200 grams and > American Nat His in New York has about 600. ?The Chicago Field Museum > only has 15 grams...... it's one of those obscure falls of a single > stone and the main mass is locked up. ?You can probably count the > private dealers in the entire world with this fall on one hand." > ----------------- > ? ? ? ?While the bulk of this post is, to the best of my knowledge, > Accurate, there is only one other dealer has ANY and she got it from me! > (.6g) AND THAT IS THE ONLY PIECE I HAVE EVER SEEN (got it in a > trade over a decade ago from a fellow with excellent reputation who dealt > with the few "honest" dealers out there (there were only about 6 in > Those days). Several have contacted me to inform me she had this .6g piece, > But I already knew that. All of this happened so very long ago, I had no > Idea the value of the piece I had. > ? ? ? ?However, I now have a 2 gram specimen that came from the Oscar > Monnig Collection at TCU and INCLUDES THE CARD that came with it. > If anyone has any interest or any idea what it is worth or would like to see > The photo, please contact me off list. > ? ? ? ?Best wishes, Michael > > > >> From: Michael Blood >> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:12:18 -0700 >> To: Meteorite List >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q >> >> ?Re: Mayo Belwa >> ? ? Please contact me off list if you have any for sale or know >> Anyone who does..... >> ? ? ? ? Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it costs >> So much? >> ? ? ? ? RSVP >> ? ? ? ? Thanks, Michael >> >> From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Sun Jun 14 02:45:25 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:45:25 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for small Brenhams Message-ID: Hello All, Thank you all for the overwhelming response to my requests for small Brenhams to give to my friends. Glad to see so many people trying to help me. Special thanks to Greg Catterton for his great deal. Carl _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Sun Jun 14 02:52:39 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 08:52:39 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa In-Reply-To: <822da19a0906132037w3c0b1b87ia696b33a6ee5a223@mail.gmail.com> References: <822da19a0906132037w3c0b1b87ia696b33a6ee5a223@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090614085239.gbp6v9ee674k008g@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi MIchael, I got my first Mayo Belwa from Bob Haag at the Denver show 1994. It was a 1.47 g fragment with a polished window and about 30% crust. I sold it in 2005 when I acquired, as upgrade, a superb 3.91 g full slice, 40x27x1.5 mm (but no apparent crust around) from Sergey Vasiliev (I believe in Ensisheim). The 40x27 mm surface is even more spectacular in color & clast contrast than Cumberland Falls. Short description from my collection catalog: "dominant gray with lots of white clasts, some cracks/holes"... Unfortunately no pic on hand. Regards, Zelimir Dark Matter a ??crit??: > Hello Michael, > > I have a 6g+ fragment of Mayo Belwa. > > Here's a pic. > http://www.geocities.com/planetwhy/mayobelwa.jpg > > best, > > Martin > > > > On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Michael Blood wrote: >> Thanks to Mike G. for the following: >> ----- >> " Mayo is a witnessed fall aubrite and the majority of it sits in the >> Nigerian Geological Survey Office. ?Relatively little is in >> collections. ?US Nat His in Washington has less than 200 grams and >> American Nat His in New York has about 600. ?The Chicago Field Museum >> only has 15 grams...... it's one of those obscure falls of a single >> stone and the main mass is locked up. ?You can probably count the >> private dealers in the entire world with this fall on one hand." >> ----------------- >> ? ? ? ?While the bulk of this post is, to the best of my knowledge, >> Accurate, there is only one other dealer has ANY and she got it from me! >> (.6g) AND THAT IS THE ONLY PIECE I HAVE EVER SEEN (got it in a >> trade over a decade ago from a fellow with excellent reputation who dealt >> with the few "honest" dealers out there (there were only about 6 in >> Those days). Several have contacted me to inform me she had this .6g piece, >> But I already knew that. All of this happened so very long ago, I had no >> Idea the value of the piece I had. >> ? ? ? ?However, I now have a 2 gram specimen that came from the Oscar >> Monnig Collection at TCU and INCLUDES THE CARD that came with it. >> If anyone has any interest or any idea what it is worth or would like to see >> The photo, please contact me off list. >> ? ? ? ?Best wishes, Michael >> >> >> >>> From: Michael Blood >>> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:12:18 -0700 >>> To: Meteorite List >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q >>> >>> ?Re: Mayo Belwa >>> ? ? Please contact me off list if you have any for sale or know >>> Anyone who does..... >>> ? ? ? ? Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it costs >>> So much? >>> ? ? ? ? RSVP >>> ? ? ? ? Thanks, Michael >>> >>> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From p.marmet at sunrise.ch Sun Jun 14 05:22:14 2009 From: p.marmet at sunrise.ch (Peter Marmet) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:22:14 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa In-Reply-To: <20090614085239.gbp6v9ee674k008g@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr> References: <822da19a0906132037w3c0b1b87ia696b33a6ee5a223@mail.gmail.com> <20090614085239.gbp6v9ee674k008g@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <871799a20906140222q53fe79e4n34d3444fd9598eb9@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, you can see my two Mayo Belwa pieces here : http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ ...just below "Wabar"... Peter From info at mcomemeteorite.it Sun Jun 14 06:32:40 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:32:40 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa Message-ID: <4a34d1c8.310.173c.1690047720@webmaildh3.aruba.it> my 1.51 gr. of Mayo Belwa, http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/2383/mayobelwa4ge.jpg matteo ----- Original Message ----- Da : Peter Marmet A : Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Oggetto : Re: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa Data : Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:22:14 +0200 > Hi All, > > you can see my two Mayo Belwa pieces here : > http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ ...just below "Wabar"... > > Peter > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.org Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com From wpiatek at indy.rr.com Sun Jun 14 08:59:11 2009 From: wpiatek at indy.rr.com (Wendy Piatek) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 08:59:11 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Michael . This is the first time I have tried downloading pics to the web. Let me know if it works. You should see a 68.1g Mayo Belwa . Aubrites are among my favorites as they are very unusual especially when compared to other specimens. They are rare as a group (non Antarctic) with only 11, mainly falls, and somewhat older with 1948 being the recent. Many would have been lost for good if they were not observed falls as nobody including myself would have taken them for meteoritic and water would have quickly destroyed them. How Mount Egerton and Shallowater got in the group is a mystery macroscopically to me. http://picasaweb.google.com/jaypiatek/MayoBelwa I should be posting my other aubrites shortly I do have access to several other MB specimens if desired. No micros though. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Blood" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q > Re: Mayo Belwa > Please contact me off list if you have any for sale or know > Anyone who does..... > Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it costs > So much? > RSVP > Thanks, Michael > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From wpiatek at indy.rr.com Sun Jun 14 10:06:58 2009 From: wpiatek at indy.rr.com (Wendy Piatek) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:06:58 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q In-Reply-To: <2677F0B75A864E469694F9114B96BB2E@JeffPC> References: <2677F0B75A864E469694F9114B96BB2E@JeffPC> Message-ID: <8D32C0D00A1446B9ADB1FA459A7B0184@JayPC> Thanks Jeff . I just uploaded a few more pics. Still got to find my Shallowater. I changed the title to Aubrites so the last link will not work.. http://picasaweb.google.com/jaypiatek/Aubrites Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Kuyken" To: "Wendy Piatek" Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q > Hi Jay, > > WOW! To say those specimens are stunning would be the understatement of > the year! Thanks for sharing the pics! > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wendy Piatek" > To: "Michael Blood" > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:59 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q > > >> Hi Michael . This is the first time I have tried downloading pics to the >> web. Let me know if it works. >> You should see a 68.1g Mayo Belwa . Aubrites are among my favorites as >> they are very unusual especially when compared to other specimens. They >> are rare as a group (non Antarctic) with only 11, mainly falls, and >> somewhat older with 1948 being the recent. >> Many would have been lost for good if they were not observed falls as >> nobody including myself would have taken them for meteoritic and water >> would have quickly destroyed them. How Mount Egerton and Shallowater got >> in the group is a mystery macroscopically to me. >> >> http://picasaweb.google.com/jaypiatek/MayoBelwa >> >> I should be posting my other aubrites shortly >> >> I do have access to several other MB specimens if desired. No micros >> though. >> Jay >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Michael Blood" >> To: "Meteorite List" >> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 6:12 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q >> >> >>> Re: Mayo Belwa >>> Please contact me off list if you have any for sale or know >>> Anyone who does..... >>> Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it costs >>> So much? >>> RSVP >>> Thanks, Michael >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr Sun Jun 14 10:21:27 2009 From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pel=E9_Pierre-Marie?=) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:21:27 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mongolian meteorites Message-ID: <509208.84841.qm@web23002.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hello, I'm back from an expedition in Altai (Bayan-Olgii province), in western Mongolia. While in Ulan-Bator, I coulnd't miss the National History Museum with a room dedicated to meteorites. Sorry for the bad quality of the images but it was forbidden to photography so I couldn't use a flash... Page is very heavy also. http://www.meteor-center.com/expes/mongolie2009_meteorites.asp See you in Ste Marie aux Mines soon ! Best regards, Pierre-Marie Pele www.meteor-center.com From majbaermann at web.de Sun Jun 14 11:57:11 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:57:11 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Mongolian meteorites Message-ID: Thank you, Pierre-Marie, for your interesting photo-report from Ulan Bator. Hard to believe that your expedition in the Altai region was dedicated to meteorites too? Best regards, Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pel? Pierre-Marie" To: Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mongolian meteorites > > Hello, > > I'm back from an expedition in Altai (Bayan-Olgii province), in western > Mongolia. > > While in Ulan-Bator, I coulnd't miss the National History Museum with a > room dedicated to meteorites. Sorry for the bad quality of the images but > it was forbidden to photography so I couldn't use a flash... Page is very > heavy also. > > http://www.meteor-center.com/expes/mongolie2009_meteorites.asp > > See you in Ste Marie aux Mines soon ! > > Best regards, > > Pierre-Marie Pele > www.meteor-center.com > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at tektiteinc.com Sun Jun 14 11:58:02 2009 From: info at tektiteinc.com (info at tektiteinc.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:58:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - SALE 50% Off all Rizalites on TektiteInc.com SALE Message-ID: <60752.127.0.0.1.1244995082.squirrel@syd-srv07.ezyreg.com> Hello all, Many thanks to those who visited my site during the sale. Many Rizalites have been sold over the last week and there's still a little left on my site. Please note that I will NOT be adding anymore Rizalites to my site once the remaining have been sold. Yes, I am running out! However, I will still be listing a few quality specimens on evilBay every now and then. Please see the link below that directs you to a page where all the available specimens are located. This will save you time in looking for the specimens that have not been sold yet. http://tektiteinc.com/forsale.html Also, please have a look at my evilBay listings, I have some choice specimens ending in a few hours time. Thanks again. Cheers, Desmond Leong IMCA #2254 http://www.TektiteInc.com http://stores.ebay.com/Tektite-Inc http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtektiteinc-dot-com From info at tektiteinc.com Sun Jun 14 12:03:03 2009 From: info at tektiteinc.com (info at tektiteinc.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-50% Off all Rizalites on TektiteInc.com SALE Message-ID: <45590.127.0.0.1.1244995383.squirrel@syd-srv07.ezyreg.com> Hello all, Many thanks to those who visited my site during the sale. Many Rizalites have been sold over the last week and there's still a little left on my site. Please note that I will NOT be adding anymore Rizalites to my site once the remaining have been sold. Yes, I am running out! However, I will still be listing a few quality specimens on evilBay every now and then. Please see the link below that directs you to a page where all the available specimens are located. This will save you time in looking for the specimens that have not been sold yet. http://tektiteinc.com/forsale.html Also, please have a look at my evilBay listings, I have some choice specimens ending in a few hours time. Thanks again. Cheers, Desmond Leong IMCA #2254 http://www.TektiteInc.com http://stores.ebay.com/Tektite-Inc http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtektiteinc-dot-com From beardownbob at gmail.com Sun Jun 14 13:12:29 2009 From: beardownbob at gmail.com (Bob Holmes) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:12:29 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: ebay auction ending tomorrow Message-ID: <2bc48ad00906141012s59ca6929p9e7d773a767f5dbc@mail.gmail.com> Hello All- For those interested, I have a few items ending tomorrow. http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/bobholmes Cheers, Bob From darryl at dof3.com Sun Jun 14 15:02:02 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:02:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Query / Zucoloto Message-ID: Might anyone have Maria Elizabeth (Betty) Zucoloto's email? The email I've had bounced-back. Thanks so much, Darryl From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sun Jun 14 15:18:32 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 14 Jun 2009 19:18:32 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Query Message-ID: Hello Darryl and List, At the end of this article in Meteorite Magazine: ZUCOLOTTO E. (2006) Angra dos Reis (METEORITE, May 2006-12-2, pp. 12-16). ..her email address looks like this: mezucolotto at globo.com Maybe this one works! Best Bernd From darryl at dof3.com Sun Jun 14 15:46:53 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:46:53 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Query In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0AE65CEA-CBA4-4D59-B7AF-3FF8B7D927DE@dof3.com> In what is certainly a frequent invocation on this list..... "Bernd, thank you so very much!" All best / Darryl On Jun 14, 2009, at 3:18 PM, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > Hello Darryl and List, > > At the end of this article in Meteorite Magazine: > > ZUCOLOTTO E. (2006) Angra dos Reis (METEORITE, May 2006-12-2, pp. > 12-16). > > ..her email address looks like this: > > mezucolotto at globo.com > > Maybe this one works! > > Best Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 14 17:18:37 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] prehistoric artifact made of meteorites Message-ID: <189300.23110.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Pierre, Here is what I have on the topic but not the details you seek perhaps. During parts of Desert Shield, I was in Israel and visited the shop of a widow who's husband was an artifact broker/collector. This was right across the street from the US Embassy which was then in Tel Aviv. I've never found what became of her and her shop. She had no information as to where and when this artifact I am about to describe was acquired, as she like many other citizens were packing up and leaving given the impending hostilities. In her possession but alas beyond the "strictly US Dollar cash" I had on hand, was an embellished artifact which I instantly recognized as a small iron meteorite about 2 inches long with substantial terrestrial age probably less than a 10,000 but more than 2000. It appeared to have been partially press or hammer forged to the extent that a deep pocket had been forced into the center. The rim showed cracks and distortions pointing to the center pocket. The pocket itself had a perfect symmetry. In the pocket was a goldmetal-lined, half-cup and within the cup was a ruby red, dimly transparent glass(?) cabochon-like stone mounted flat face up. On the face was a "rampant horse" engraved into the face showing traces of gold leaf in the channels. I understand the horse theme dates the artifact to the Hellenistic Period(332-315 bce). The local Hellenistic Period was several hundred years after the two, three or four middle eastern "Iron Ages" depending on the historian. I recall some discussion that the first iron age was thought made possible using a major iron meteorite fall and when that material was exhausted there was a break until terrestrial iron ore mining and smelting came of age. I understand it is well established that many Damascus Steel Knives and gun barrels(?) were made from meteoric iron--much as most Pennsylvanian and Kentuckian Long Rifles were made from the Cosby Creek Tennessee iron. I have personally seen two Georgia Tektites which had been knapped into scrapers. From this we can infer that humans are opportunistic and given to using gifts from the heavens in whatever techniclogical or artistic means they had. Speaking of middle eastern artifacts, somewhere in my stored collection I have ordinary flint, knapped artifacts from Saudi Arabia collected during Desert Shield. Owing to creation-timeline beliefs in which these artifacts fall well before the creation of the earth, in Saudi Logic, they simply do not exist, nor did any prehistoric human activity. I forget the exact phrase they use to describe the inland uninhabited regions where these were found but, it too includes a logic that the land or the ancient tribes also do not exist. Perhaps someone remembers the terminology? The non-existent old ones? This is the same slick logic-system that when confronted with cultural conflicts regarding US Service women driving in a country where women are not allowed to drive vehicles, declared them "men" for the duration thus defusing the conflict. I think western politicians must have picked that trick up from the Saudis. Elton --- On Tue, 6/9/09, rochette at cerege.fr wrote: > From: rochette at cerege.fr > Subject: [meteorite-list] prehistoric artefact made of meteorites > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 6:05 AM > (sorry for not including a subject in > my previous post) > dear list members > > for a research project I am looking for meteorites from the > Sahara or Dhofar* that may have been used by prehistoric > man. If you think you have such man shaped artefact in your > NWAs (or other collection area) please contact me off-list; > we can expertise it. > regards *and more generally Africa and Middle East > -- Pierre From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 14 17:49:11 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Oktibbeha County Super Ataxite? ...was The tale of a falling star Message-ID: <963993.53226.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> The Oktibbeha Meteorite is a "triple hitter" for unusual meteorites and unfortunately only a few grams are still in existence. I believe someone asked about other meteorites which were found in entombed, in burial mounds, etc. The Oktibbeha County, Mississippi meteorite found in 1857 in a burial mound (just West of Columbus, Mississippi in what would have likely been Creek Nation Territory). The mineral(sic)Oktibbehite was "identifed" in this find but no mineral data appears to exist for it. Here is the link for a descriptive mineralogy page: Even more preplexing is the microprobe analysis from the 1960's which shows a Ni content of 60%. That might be the record! Elton Here is the text: SHORT COMMUNICATIONS MINERALOGICAL MAGAZINE, MARCH I972, VOL. 38, PP. 623-26 The Oktibbeha County iron meteorite TAYLOR (I857) first described the unique Oktibbeha County iron meteorite, whichwas found in an Indian burial mound in Mississippi. It was originally egg-shapedand weighed about 15o g, but was split along a fissure by a sledge-hammer blow,dividing it into two nearly equal parts, one of which was forged, while the other was subjected to chiseling, sawing, and filing. According to Hey (I966) about 46 g now remains. Analyses by Taylor and by Cohen 0892) show a nickel content of about6o %, the highest recorded in a meteorite. Hey lists another iron of similar nickel content (La Fayette), but none now remains. The next highest is the Santa Catherina iron with about 34 % Ni. Doubts have been expressed from time to time about the authenticity of the Oktibbeha County meteorite, because of its extraordinary nickel content, although a natural terrestrial origin is improbable, since native nickel-iron (awaruite) from N. American localities contains too much nickel (74 to 77 % according to Palache et al., T944). Perry (I942, I944) observed phosphide inclusions (identified by sodium picrate etching) in a specimen of Oktibbeha County from the American Museum of Natural History, New York, which resembled rhabdite (= schreibersite, (Fe, Ni)~P) found in ordinary iron meteorites. The identity of similar inclusions in a specimen from the Academy of Natural Sciences, Philadelphia (no. Ioo67), has now been confirmed as schreibersite by electron microprobe analysis. Fig. I shows scanning pictures of 'rhabdite' in this specimen, taken with the phosphorus Ka X-ray line. The formation of euhedral rhabdite-like schreibersite requires the very slow cooling typical of iron meteorites. X-ray diffraction shows the metal to consist of large, well-oriented taenite (9,-nickeliron) single crystals, giving further indication of slow cooling. In ordinary iron meteorites rhabdite occurs as orientated needles in kamacite (a-nickel-iron), and is thought to have formed below 50o ~ The Oktibbeha County 'rhabdite' probably formed at a considerably higher temperature, because diffusion is much slower in taenite than in kamacite at a given temperature. There appears to be a definite orientation relationship between the 'rhabdite' and the face-centred cubic taenite in Oktibbeha County, comparable with that existing between rhabdite and body-centred cubic kamacite in ordinary irons. The Philadelphia specimen consists of a slice probably passing approximately through the centre of the original ovoid mass. At the edge the original schreibersite has been heated to form rounded metal-phosphide eutectoid areas. The microprobe scanning pictures in fig. 2 show how the heating effect decreases with distance from distance of a few ram. In the centre of the slice schreibersite is unaltered. This effect is almost certainly due to the thermal gradient produced by shortlived but intense surface heating caused by atmospheric friction, and is therefore further evidence for the meteoritic nature of the specimen. Similar effects are found in other iron meteorites. The British Museum (Natural History) specimen (B.M. 34595) appears to be an artificially heated piece of material originally similar to the New York and Philadelphia specimens. The metal is of granular appearance in the microscope, and X-ray diffraction indicates disorientated granular taenite. Small irregular areas of barely resolvable metal-phosphide eutectoid distributed throughout the specimen are presumably relics of the schreibersite in the unaltered material. There is no evidence of a thermal gradient. Photomicrographs by Perry (i94z, ~944) of a specimen from Harvard University show a similar microstructure. Table I gives microprobe analyses of the B.M. (N.H.) and Philadelphia specimens, together with earlier analyses. Neither the metal nor the schreibersite were found to vary appreciably in composition in the Philadelphia specimen, outside the peripheral heated zone. The metal in the B.M. (N.H.) specimen was only slightly variable in composition. TABL~ I. Analyses of the Oktibbeha County meteorite Previous analyses Microprobe analyses Phil. IOO67 B.M. 34595 Taylor Cohen metal schreiber- metal metal-(I857) (I892) site phosphide eutectoid Ni 59"7 62-0 ~.I 65q 6r.o 65"3 37'7 37"z 39"0 20-0 38-0 22-5 Cu 0"9 o"3 0"6 -- 0-8 -- Co o'4 o'7 o'5 o'4 o'5 o'4 P o.I o.z o.o I4-6 o.o Iz.I 98"8 IOO'4 ioo.2 Io0.1 IOO'3 lO0"3 The schreibersite in the Philadelphia specimen corresponds approximately to(Fe0.vNi2.3) P, which is the most nickel-rich schreibersite recorded. The association of very nickel-rich schreibersite with taenite of similar nickel content is in accord with the phase diagram (Doan and Goldstein, I969), in which schreibersite and taenite in equilibrium contain about the same wt. % Ni. Conclusion. The Philadelphia specimen of Oktibbeha County is undoubtedly meteoritic. Theories of the origin of iron meteorites should therefore take into account the existence of meteoritic metal containing 6o % Ni. Acknowledgements. This work was carried out in the Mineralogy Dept., British Museum (Natural History). I am indebted to Mrs. J. M. Hall for assistance with the electron microprobe analyses, and to Dr. R. J. Davis for X-ray diffraction data. I am very grateful to the Director of the Academy of Natural Sciences, Philadelphia, Dr. H. R. Roberts, for the loan of the specimen. Dept. of Geophysics and Geochemistry S.J.B. REED Australian National University Canberra, Australia REFERENCES COHEN (E.), 1892. Ann. Naturhist. Hofmus. Wien, 7, 146. DOAN (A. S.) and GOLDSTEIN (J. I.), 1969. In MILLNAN (P. M.), Meteorite Research, 763. Reidel(Dordrecht). HEY (M. H.), I966. Catalogue of Meteorites, 3rd edn, Brit. Mus. (Nat. Hist.), London. PALACI-IE (C.), BERMAN (H.), and FRONDEL (C.), I944. Dana's System of Mineralogy, 7th edn, 1, Wiley, New York. PERRY (S. H.), I942. Photomierographs of Meteoric Irons, 3, Adrian, Michigan. -- I944. The Metallography of Meteoric Iron, U.S. Nat. Mus. Bull. 184, Washington. TAYLOR (W. J.), 1857. Amer. Journ. Sci. ser. z, 24, 293. [Manuscript received I I January 197t] 9 Crown copyright reserved. From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sun Jun 14 17:50:32 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 14 Jun 2009 21:50:32 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Oktibbeha County Super Ataxite? ...was The tale of a falling star ... Top Ten re: Ni content Message-ID: "a Ni content of 60%. That might be the record!" Hi Elton and List, Yes, it it! Here are the top ten sorted by decreasing nickel content: Oktibbeha County - 60.1 Lafayette (iron) - 59.4 Dermbach - 42.1 Santa Catharina - 33.8 Tishomingo - 32.5 Twin City - 30 Lime Creek - 29.5 Willow Grove - 27.9 Barbianello - 27.1 San Cristobal - 25.7 Bernd - 0% Ni content ;-) From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sun Jun 14 18:26:59 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:26:59 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Oktibbeha County Super Ataxite? ...was The tale of a falling star ... Top Ten re: Ni content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9feaa049cf742a023958ef287a47b998.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi Bernd: I have not been able to find an "average" amount of Ni in humans (seems to depend on a lot of things like what kind of oil you consume, how far from Sudbury you live, etc.--micrograms per gram of body weight). But it is important. >From Copperwiki: "Nickel deficiency is rare in humans as nickel requirements are low and availability high from dietary sources. A condition of nickel deficiency has not been clearly defined in humans, though it has been demonstrated in animals. Nickel deficiency in these cases has been shown to affect a number of functions. The symptoms observed in animal studies include depressed growth, reproductive changes and altered lipid and glucose levels in the blood. Other changes observed in a nickel deficient state include, changes in skin color, coarse hair, hormone imbalance and abnormal bone growth. Liver function is impaired and iron metabolism is affected, resulting in poor absorption of iron. Metabolism of some other nutrients like calcium and vitamin B12 is also altered due to nickel deficiency." So, yes, you do have a nickel content! Larry > "a Ni content of 60%. That might be the record!" > > Hi Elton and List, > > Yes, it it! Here are the top ten sorted by decreasing nickel content: > > Oktibbeha County - 60.1 > Lafayette (iron) - 59.4 > Dermbach - 42.1 > Santa Catharina - 33.8 > Tishomingo - 32.5 > Twin City - 30 > Lime Creek - 29.5 > Willow Grove - 27.9 > Barbianello - 27.1 > San Cristobal - 25.7 > > > Bernd - 0% Ni content ;-) > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Sun Jun 14 18:52:05 2009 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:52:05 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Auctions ending in about an hour Message-ID: <004301c9ed42$bd6f6b30$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Hello all For your consideration http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/nakhladog_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZ Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 From cynapse at charter.net Sun Jun 14 20:14:18 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:14:18 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Oktibbeha County Super Ataxite? ...was The tale of a falling star ... Top Ten re: Ni content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com> On 14 Jun 2009 21:50:32 UT, you wrote: >Bernd - 0% Ni content ;-) Oh, you are some percent Ni. The 0% is likely a rounding error. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel#Biological_role From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Sun Jun 14 19:44:09 2009 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:44:09 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Farmville, NC Meteorite for Sale In-Reply-To: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com> References: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com> Message-ID: <9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> Good Evening, I am pleased to offer a rare fall that, to my knowledge, has never been offered for sale before: Farmville, North Carolina, H4, Fell March 9, 1934. The pieces are a bit special as coming from the USNM and also being shown in a famous photographic catalog. A copy of the original USNM card is provided with each specimen. If interested in acquiring a piece of this rare fall and locality for your collection, please contact me off-list for complete details, photos, etc.. I have pieces for all budgets, so don't be shy! Best regards, Mike Bandli IMCA #5765 From erikfwebb at msn.com Sun Jun 14 21:28:00 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:28:00 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 13, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thats like waving a steak in front of a dog. [Erik] ---------------------------------------- > From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com > Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:15:57 -0400 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 13, 2009 > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_13_2009.html > > __________________________ > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377049x1201454365/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JunestepsfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sun Jun 14 23:32:06 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - EBAY ITEMS ENDING IN 24 HOURS - Message-ID: <992046.67757.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi to all, here is my AD for the week. I have several items ending in the next 24 hours on ebay. There some real nice deals on assorted achondrites to be had. Many are at almost 1/2 the normal market value. Many of the items for sale include free shipping to anywhere in the USA. You can view the items here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1 Items include: Tatahouine - Diogenite NWA 4734 - Lunar "Pristine Magmatic Rock" at $1000 per gram or less! Camel Donga - Eucrite (whole stones with flow lines, oriented, slices and endcuts at about $30 per gram) These are some top quality samples at very reasonable prices! NWA 5480 - Olivine Diogenite with outstanding polished surface Thanks for looking! Greg C. IMCA 4682 www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com From zilla237 at hotmail.com Sun Jun 14 23:59:28 2009 From: zilla237 at hotmail.com (Dean Miera) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:59:28 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 13, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow! that is an awesome meteorite! I am sure glad I live fairly close to Portales. Can't wait till fall comes around. > From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com > Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:15:57 -0400 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 13, 2009 > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_13_2009.html > > __________________________ > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377049x1201454365/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JunestepsfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 From erikfwebb at msn.com Mon Jun 15 00:07:21 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:07:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Nate's Franconia L Chondrite Message-ID: I hunted this Thursday through Sunday at Franconia. I met up with Nate who had been there since Monday and he had already had plenty of luck on both the North and South sides of the highway. He showed me a pretty big L chondrite he found while looking for big H's on the Southside. The exact weight of Nate's find is pending but it is probably over 100 grams. Who really knows which strewn field it pairs to without classifying it, but it would be a shame to cut it. Here are some pics of it for any non believers: http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a.jpg http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a1.jpg http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a2.jpg http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a3.jpg http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a4.jpg http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a5.jpg http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a6.jpg I'll post more pictures of the hunt in the following days. [Erik] From zilla237 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 15 00:22:03 2009 From: zilla237 at hotmail.com (Dean Miera) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:22:03 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Nate's Franconia L Chondrite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Erik, give Nate my congrats on a nice 100+ grammer. A very nice piece indeed!! I'm sure yours will be just as nice. Good hunting!! Congrats to both of you!! Dean > From: erikfwebb at msn.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:07:21 -0700 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Nate's Franconia L Chondrite > > > I hunted this Thursday through Sunday at Franconia. > I met up with Nate who had been there since Monday and > he had already had plenty of luck on both the North and > South sides of the highway. > He showed me a pretty big L chondrite he found while looking > for big H's on the Southside. > The exact weight of Nate's find is pending but > it is probably over 100 grams. > Who really knows which strewn field it pairs > to without classifying it, but it would be a shame to cut it. > > > Here are some pics of it for any non believers: > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a1.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a2.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a3.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a4.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a5.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a6.jpg > > I'll post more pictures of the hunt in the following > days. > > [Erik] > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 From mexicodoug at aim.com Mon Jun 15 04:36:53 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 04:36:53 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Oktibbeha County Super Ataxite? ...was The tale of a falling star ... Top Ten re: Ni content In-Reply-To: <9feaa049cf742a023958ef287a47b998.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> References: <9feaa049cf742a023958ef287a47b998.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <8CBBBAB91BBFDE1-A98-3213@webmail-mh35.sysops.aol.com> Darren rote: ">Bernd - 0% Ni content ;-) Oh, you are some percent Ni. The 0% is likely a rounding error. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel#Biological_role" Hi Darren, I don't think there was any concern with about the floating point arithmetic facing programmers with the 0%. Bernd was precise and you may have noted the smile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_(arithmetic) Larry wrote: "I have not been able to find an "average" amount of Ni in humans (seems to depend on a lot of things like what kind of oil you consume, how far from Sudbury you live, etc.--micrograms per gram of body weight). " Hi Larry, "A 70 kg [note: American] reference man contains 10 mg of nickel, giving an average body concentration of 0.1 ppm... [Larry: This is 0%; to two significant figures it would be 0.000014% or 0.14 ppm's, or 140 nanograms per gram, though the context favors only one] Nickel does not bioaccumulate to a great extent in animals... [note: if you overload, it becomes toxic when the body cannot keep up removing it as quickly, especially in the liver and kidneys] Nickel sensitivity is a form of delayed hypersensitivity that is found in 10?20% of the general population..."* [note: this is at low levels, once triggered, you get the allergy to much lower concentrations for life] Meteoroholics, If you wish to get a daily allowance of meteorite in your diet, this means (ignoring all the o ther heavy elements haha), that a reasonable risk of powdered meteorite to add to a liquid nourishment, eat or snort is 10 mg of an iron meteorite, or 100 mg of a chondrite, and not more than six of them a week, keeping in mind that ataxites are reserved for only a special class of meteorite hunters and excluded for the masses at these levels). The reference Larry quoted says: "A condition of nickel deficiency has not been clearly defined in humans..." i.e., it's not a good idea to take nickel supplements of any kind, unless, well, uh, you know... Best wishes, Doug (Ni - 0% except when lucky) *ref.: Finalized Toxilogical Profile PB2006-100005 August, 2005. Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (A sister agency to the CDC in Atlanta) Department of Health and Human Services. U.S. Government Publication (by Congressional Mandate) -----Original Message----- From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu To: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 5:26 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Oktibbeha County Super Ataxite? ...was The tale of a falling star ... Top Ten re: Ni content Hi Bernd: I have not been able to find an "average" amount of Ni in humans (seems to depend on a lot of things like what kind of oil you consume, how far from Sudbury you live, etc.--micrograms per gram of body weight). But it is important. >From Copperwiki: "Nickel deficiency is rare in humans as nickel requirements are low and availability high from dietary sources. A condition of nickel deficiency has not been clearly defined in humans, though it has been demonstrated in animals. Nickel deficiency in these cases has been shown to affect a number of functions. The symptoms observed in animal studies include depressed growth, reproductive changes and altered lipid and glucose levels in the blood. Other changes observed in a nickel deficient state include, changes in skin color, coarse hair, hormone imbalance and abnormal bone growth. Liver function is impaired and iron metabolism is affected, resulting in poor absorption of iron. Metabolism of some other nutrients like calcium and vitamin B12 is also altered due to nickel deficiency." So, yes, you do have a nickel content! Larry > "a Ni content of 60%. That might be the record!" > > Hi Elton and List, > > Yes, it it! Here are the top ten sorted by decreasing nickel content: > > Oktibbeha County - 60.1 > Lafayette (iron) - 59.4 > Dermbach - 42.1 > Santa Catharina - 33.8 > Tishomingo - 32.5 > Twin City - 30 > Lime Creek - 29.5 > Willow Grove - 27.9 > Barbianello - 27.1 > San Cristobal - 25.7 > > > Bernd - 0% Ni content ;-) > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > h ttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mafer at imagineopals.com Mon Jun 15 08:42:14 2009 From: mafer at imagineopals.com (mafer at imagineopals.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:42:14 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Auctions ending a couple days In-Reply-To: <004301c9ed42$bd6f6b30$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> References: <004301c9ed42$bd6f6b30$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Message-ID: I have a few auctions up on Ebay if your interested. http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/refamat_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_sopZ12 Mark Ferguson From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 15 12:21:26 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:21:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie In-Reply-To: <9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> References: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com> <9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> Message-ID: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon Jun 15 11:36:23 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:36:23 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> Hi Martin, Thanks again for the link... This story is running rampant across the whole internet. You can't surf the web without running into this story. And worse... It's all merely the same thing being repeated and retold all over the web from the original story. No verification, no reliable test results, and no fact checking at all. Just rampant rumor... It's dumb that people can't find out what really happened before posting this story all over. Even Discovery magazine posted something about it, though in a debunking sort of way. Normally I would have posted an article on my site about this by now on something this significant, but without any verification it's pointless. Jeez, if it's real then I'm totally stoked! This would be an historical event to say the least. But either way someone needs to do some investigation and post the truth about it regardless of what that truth turns out to be. Too bad I don't speak German, I'd be all over this story! Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA Martin Altmann wrote: > Ja but they're changing the story to make it more interesting. > > Read from U.K. > > "Chemical tests on the rock have now proved it is from outer space. > > Ansgar Korte, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: "It's > a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and > scientists." > > > And here is the original, they're referring to: > > http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/essen/2009/6/9/news-122291315/de > tail.html > > > Where Korte is quoted:" If it's really a true meteorite, then the specimen > will have a certain value for collectors and mineralogists" > > And in the following he recommends places, where the stone could be tested, > whether it is a meteorite. > > > That story of course is rubbish. > A prank, not more. > > Martin > > Btw. it seems to be a boy... > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Meteorites USA > Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Juni 2009 19:20 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? > > Hi Listees, > > The story has gone worldwide fast... The reports are merely repeating > what the original report stated and from what I can see there is no > verification... > > Skeptical? Is anyone else researching this? Maybe one of our German > friends on-list might lend a hand and call the local paper there that > first broke the story and see if they can get an interview with the boy > to help confirm or verify what actually happened? > > ---------------------------------------------- > > Yahoo News UK: > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090612/tod-boy-hit-by-meteorite-travelling-at-3 > -870a197.html > > Space.com: > http://www.space.com/news/090612-boy-hit-by-meteorite.html > > FoxNews.com > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525992,00.html > > > SkyNews.com > http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Boy-Hit-On-Arm-By-White-Hot-Mete > orite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos=W > orld_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251_ > Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot > eorite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos= > World_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251 > _Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot> > > Daily Telegraph: Australia > http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25625253-5012895,00.html > > --------------------------------------------- > > Has there been confirmation yet? If... And this is a BIG IF. If this is > a real story and th boy really did get hit with a meteorite there could > be more meteorite on th ground. This would be a very famous fall to > recover if it turns out to be verifiable! > > Can anyone confirm? > > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > > > > > Meteorites USA wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> This just in... >> >> Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> >> "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing >> 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." >> >> Meteor hits boy on way to school >> Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET >> >> ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, >> and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche >> Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on >> my hand.? >> >> The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but >> Blank knew something special had happened to him. >> >> ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from >> the heat as it went by me,? he said. >> >> After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a >> sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from >> his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school >> with him. >> >> ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His >> parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. >> >> Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested >> the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble >> is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. >> >> Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. >> >> SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> >> Another site reports: >> >> SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky >> >> SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. >> A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the >> sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white >> cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm >> cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it >> and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? >> Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. >> >> SOURCE: >> >> > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news- > ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > >> -------------------------------------------- >> >> So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? >> >> Anyone else have any info? >> >> > > > From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon Jun 15 12:08:57 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:08:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <4A367219.8040200@meteoritesusa.com> Very interesting article on this, kind of puts things into perspective. ----------------------------------ARTICLE------------------------------------ SOURCE: http://spacerubble.blogspot.com/2009/06/bad-reporting-on-meteor-strike.html SUNDAY, JUNE 14, 2009 Bad Reporting on Meteor strike If you've been watching the news this week, you might have seen a fantastic report about a boy in Germany who was amazingly struck by a small fragment of the universe! According to initial reports, the pea-size meteorite was all that was left of the rock from space after mostly burning up in the atmosphere. The initial report, copied by all the on-line mainstream news organizations I looked at, stated the meteorite was traveling at a speed of 30,000 mph, with a loud bang and bright light struck a glancing blow to the boy, bouncing off him and burying itself into the road where it created a foot-wide mini-crater. At first read, this is an amazing tale of survival just removed from a possible horrible death! But lucky for me, I paid attention to my science and math studies in school. Did you? Do you recognize the warning signs of sensationalist reporting? For fun, go outside and find a pea-sized stone. Now, wander around and locate a nice patch of sandy soil. We won't even bother with a hard surface at this point. Next, the fun part! With all your might, throw that little stone into the sand and see what kind of crater it makes. With luck, you will see a tiny crater and watch some of the ejected material fly out. Now try it on a driveway with asphalt. No such result, eh? Imagine with your mind now, how much force a stone that size would have to impart to create a foot-wide crater in that surface. But wait- the asteroid WAS traveling at 30,000 mph, wasn't it? THAT should certainly give it enough energy! Hmmm. Wait a minute though. Just how fast IS 30,000 mph? This is where your schooling should have come in handy. We need something going REALLY fast - like a bullet- to make a comparison. Your average US Marine fighting in Afghanistan is shooting a .223 caliber bullet from his rifle. The military .223 round is a little bigger than pea-sized, but good enough for our purposes. The .223 flies out the barrel at 2750 feet/second. If you know your math and how to tell time, we can compare these object speeds. 2750 f/s is very close to a half mile per second (2640 ft). So let's use that for easy comparison. .5 mi./sec. times 60 seconds = 30 miles/minute. That bullet is going about 30 miles in one minute. Now, 30 mi./min. times 60 minutes = 1800 miles/hour. So, our bullet is traveling about 1800 mph. According to initial reports, the boy was hit in the hand. Now, I know that a .223 traveling 1800 mph hitting a boy's hand is going to do something more than leave a slight scar. If it doesn't take OFF his hand, he's going to lose a finger or AT LEAST go to the hospital for major surgery. But the meteorite was supposedly traveling 30,000 mph. As opposed to a bullet at 1800 mph. At that speed, I think the boy would not only lose his hand, but the energy from that fast an object would have probably torn off his arm- if not obliterating him and leaving a much larger smoking hole in the ground. No wonder there was a loud sound- A bullet leaves a large crack because it breaks the speed of sound, creating a shock wave (the boom) at about 760 mph. Well, the initial reports did say there was a foot sized crater, didn't they? Funny that- but while all the reports showed a smiling German boy holding his pea-sized rock, there were NO photos of the so-called crater... isn't that strange? Well, with all of this thinking, I began to immediately suspect the story was false. Looking at the story today, I find that amateur astronomers and meteor collectors have been doing their own sleuthing, and I may be justified in my doubts. Turns out that NO one has seen the so-called crater. And the supposed professional who examined the rock and declared it a meteorite, was a guy from the local public observatory. No professional space geologist has looked at this object yet. No one has ever known a small meteorite like this to have ever produced a small crater. The rules of Terminal Velocity show that these objects just ding onto the ground. It takes a stony or iron meteorite of significant weight to do damage such as the car damaged by a stony meteorite in New England a few years ago. So we have a boy, 14 years old, reporting this incident, which happened to himself, with no witnesses, no authentic verification of the object, and no "smoking hole"... are you getting the picture? The astronomical community is not convinced. And neither am I. Were you? POSTED BY MARK DAYMONT AT 11:54 AM --------------------------------------END ARTICLE--------------------------------------- Regards, Eric From minador at yahoo.com Mon Jun 15 12:14:32 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:14:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Nate's Franconia L Chondrite Message-ID: <29144.7681.qm@web54407.mail.yahoo.com> Congrats to Nate!! I almost joined him on Saturday, but chickened out... o(;?D) Thanks for the shots Erik! Mark Vail, AZ --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Erik Fisler wrote: > From: Erik Fisler > Subject: [meteorite-list] Nate's Franconia L Chondrite > To: "meteorite-list" > Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 9:07 PM > > I hunted this Thursday through Sunday at Franconia. > I met up with Nate who had been there since Monday and > he had already had plenty of luck on both the North and > South sides of the highway.? > He showed me a pretty big L chondrite he found while > looking > for big H's on the Southside. > The exact weight of Nate's find is pending but > it is probably over 100 grams. > Who really knows which strewn field it pairs > to without classifying it, but it would be a shame to cut > it. > > > Here are some pics of it for any non believers: > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a1.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a2.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a3.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a4.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a5.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a6.jpg > > I'll post more pictures of the hunt in the following > days. > > [Erik] > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon Jun 15 12:26:22 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:26:22 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <009201c9edd6$064550c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Yep, but the headlines are changing, sometimes to a super-dramatic "Teen Survives direct hit from a 30,000 mph space rock" and also the details in the story get embroidered. Sometimes the boy was going home, sometimes he tried to catch the school bus. Completley new is, that his ears were ringing for hours after the fall happened. And his scar id getting longer, the "crater" broader and the "meteorite" faster and faster! (record I read was 250,000 mph). So far I remember only one article in English language, where a critical voice was heard - when somebody asked Darryll Pitt. A clarification or disclaimer we never will read. As after the news has lost its sensation and is getting old, it will be over. Like it was with the Grandma from UK, the girl from UK or Grampa's arbour burnt down by meteoritic fire in Germany, There you never heard about again. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Meteorites USA [mailto:eric at meteoritesusa.com] Gesendet: Montag, 15. Juni 2009 17:36 An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? Hi Martin, Thanks again for the link... This story is running rampant across the whole internet. You can't surf the web without running into this story. And worse... It's all merely the same thing being repeated and retold all over the web from the original story. No verification, no reliable test results, and no fact checking at all. Just rampant rumor... It's dumb that people can't find out what really happened before posting this story all over. Even Discovery magazine posted something about it, though in a debunking sort of way. Normally I would have posted an article on my site about this by now on something this significant, but without any verification it's pointless. Jeez, if it's real then I'm totally stoked! This would be an historical event to say the least. But either way someone needs to do some investigation and post the truth about it regardless of what that truth turns out to be. Too bad I don't speak German, I'd be all over this story! Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA Martin Altmann wrote: > Ja but they're changing the story to make it more interesting. > > Read from U.K. > > "Chemical tests on the rock have now proved it is from outer space. > > Ansgar Korte, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: "It's > a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and > scientists." > > > And here is the original, they're referring to: > > http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/essen/2009/6/9/news-122291315/de > tail.html > > > Where Korte is quoted:" If it's really a true meteorite, then the specimen > will have a certain value for collectors and mineralogists" > > And in the following he recommends places, where the stone could be tested, > whether it is a meteorite. > > > That story of course is rubbish. > A prank, not more. > > Martin > > Btw. it seems to be a boy... > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Meteorites USA > Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Juni 2009 19:20 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? > > Hi Listees, > > The story has gone worldwide fast... The reports are merely repeating > what the original report stated and from what I can see there is no > verification... > > Skeptical? Is anyone else researching this? Maybe one of our German > friends on-list might lend a hand and call the local paper there that > first broke the story and see if they can get an interview with the boy > to help confirm or verify what actually happened? > > ---------------------------------------------- > > Yahoo News UK: > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090612/tod-boy-hit-by-meteorite-travelling-at-3 > -870a197.html > > Space.com: > http://www.space.com/news/090612-boy-hit-by-meteorite.html > > FoxNews.com > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525992,00.html > > > SkyNews.com > http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Boy-Hit-On-Arm-By-White-Hot-Mete > orite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos=W > orld_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251_ > Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot > eorite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos= > World_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251 > _Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot> > > Daily Telegraph: Australia > http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25625253-5012895,00.html > > --------------------------------------------- > > Has there been confirmation yet? If... And this is a BIG IF. If this is > a real story and th boy really did get hit with a meteorite there could > be more meteorite on th ground. This would be a very famous fall to > recover if it turns out to be verifiable! > > Can anyone confirm? > > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > > > > > Meteorites USA wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> This just in... >> >> Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> >> "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing >> 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." >> >> Meteor hits boy on way to school >> Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET >> >> ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, >> and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche >> Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on >> my hand.? >> >> The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but >> Blank knew something special had happened to him. >> >> ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from >> the heat as it went by me,? he said. >> >> After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a >> sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from >> his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school >> with him. >> >> ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His >> parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. >> >> Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested >> the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble >> is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. >> >> Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. >> >> SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> >> Another site reports: >> >> SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky >> >> SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. >> A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the >> sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white >> cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm >> cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it >> and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? >> Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. >> >> SOURCE: >> >> > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news- > ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > >> -------------------------------------------- >> >> So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? >> >> Anyone else have any info? >> >> > > > From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 15 14:43:15 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:43:15 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie References: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com><9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> Message-ID: <1218C9C170364773926468F9794674D5@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, Darren, List, The commentator who thinks this sets a new low for American television and astronomical science was obviously fortunate enough to have missed the series "Space 1999" (to name only one). Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:21 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really,really big pizza pie > http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Mon Jun 15 14:51:34 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:51:34 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Hilarious ad Message-ID: Hi list, This is a great ad. No need to take it seriously and say we focus on fakes more than the real thing. This is just for fun! http://providence.craigslist.org/clt/1221289678.html Tom **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) From stm at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 15 14:57:19 2009 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:57:19 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Farmville, NC Meteorite for Sale In-Reply-To: <9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> References: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com> <9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> Message-ID: <356E80808CF649339D77162BB912DE9D@Platinum2> Could be space related... Looks like a piece of the old "Horta" prop from Star Trek :) (http://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollywood/multimedia/2007/11/gallery_star_trek_monsters?slide=3) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bandli" To: Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:44 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Farmville, NC Meteorite for Sale > Good Evening, > > I am pleased to offer a rare fall that, to my knowledge, has never been > offered for sale before: Farmville, North Carolina, H4, Fell March 9, > 1934. > > The pieces are a bit special as coming from the USNM and also being shown > in > a famous photographic catalog. A copy of the original USNM card is > provided > with each specimen. > > If interested in acquiring a piece of this rare fall and locality for your > collection, please contact me off-list for complete details, photos, etc.. > I > have pieces for all budgets, so don't be shy! > > Best regards, > > Mike Bandli > IMCA #5765 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stm at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 15 15:04:05 2009 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:04:05 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hilarious ad In-Reply-To: <356E80808CF649339D77162BB912DE9D@Platinum2> References: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com><9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> <356E80808CF649339D77162BB912DE9D@Platinum2> Message-ID: Somehow - don't ask how... that got attached to another email :) Should have been from this: Hi list, This is a great ad. No need to take it seriously and say we focus on fakes more than the real thing. This is just for fun! http://providence.craigslist.org/clt/1221289678.html Tom **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean T. Murray" To: "Mike Bandli" ; Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD: Farmville, NC Meteorite for Sale > Could be space related... > > Looks like a piece of the old "Horta" prop from Star Trek :) > (http://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollywood/multimedia/2007/11/gallery_star_trek_monsters?slide=3) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Bandli" > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:44 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Farmville, NC Meteorite for Sale > > >> Good Evening, >> >> I am pleased to offer a rare fall that, to my knowledge, has never been >> offered for sale before: Farmville, North Carolina, H4, Fell March 9, >> 1934. >> >> The pieces are a bit special as coming from the USNM and also being shown >> in >> a famous photographic catalog. A copy of the original USNM card is >> provided >> with each specimen. >> >> If interested in acquiring a piece of this rare fall and locality for >> your >> collection, please contact me off-list for complete details, photos, >> etc.. I >> have pieces for all budgets, so don't be shy! >> >> Best regards, >> >> Mike Bandli >> IMCA #5765 >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon Jun 15 16:56:10 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:56:10 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: BLOWOUT! Ebay Items On Sale + Some Website Deals Message-ID: <4A36B56A.8080209@meteoritesusa.com> Hi Listees, Prices on all NWA meterorites we have listed in our Ebay Store have been SLASHED by as much as 66%! These meteorites must sell NOW! These deals are too good to pass up. They are not your ordinary NWA. All meteorites are premium quality whole stones, fragments, and or slices and ends cuts of low iron and high iron chondrite meteorite specimens that were hand picked by me. There are also some very large pieces including one very big 1459.8 Oriented Stone for only $423. A 100% fully crusted and thumbprinted 451.6g super dark crusted piece for only $225. And a very cool 950.7g stone which is probably an L type with a superbly colorful matrix full of densely packed chondrules of all different sizes. Price on this piece is only $349 Shipped in the US. Too many deals to list... You must see these meteorites. Those with questions or who would like info on how to get an additional 5% should contact me off-list or call me at 904-236-5394. 57 Ebay Items Bid Now & Good Luck! http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/freel3orn Payment through Paypal or credit card over the phone only. CALL TO ORDER: 904-236-5394 ---------------------------------------------------------- NOTICE: ALL ITEMS MUST BE PAID FOR WITHIN 24hrs OR WE WILL RESELL THE ITEM TO THE FIRST PERSON WHO PAYS CASH! 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http://cgi.ebay.com/21-0g-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-FROM-SAHARA-SLICE-NWA_W0QQitemZ250443447815 http://cgi.ebay.com/66-0g-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-FROM-SAHARA-SLICE-NWA_W0QQitemZ250443612187 http://cgi.ebay.com/103-3g-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-FROM-SAHARA-SLICE-NWA_W0QQitemZ250443612231 http://cgi.ebay.com/19-8g-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-FROM-SAHARA-SLICE-NWA_W0QQitemZ250443447724 http://cgi.ebay.com/19-5g-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-FROM-SAHARA-SLICE-NWA_W0QQitemZ260427837140 ---------------------------------------EBAY SALE--------------------------------------- .35/g For Premium Quality NWA in the "WHOLE STONE METEORITES, FRAGMENTS & END CUTS" Section on this page: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/stone-meteorites-for-sale.htm There are some exceptional pieces in this section of my site. Many are very large pieces worthy of classification and collection. 4963g (4.96 Kilo) Whole Individual: $1699 Shipped (USA) http://www.meteoritesusa.com/nwa-meteorites/unwa-4963g.htm ------------------------------------ TAMDAKHT: SALE: $1.50/g Blow Out Price! Buy All 3 Pieces 132.8g = $199 http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tamdakht-meteorite-for-sale.htm ------------------------------------ Enjoy... Call me at 904-236-5394 or contact me off-list for the best deals. Even deeper discounts available for bulk orders. -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From pgspears at cox.net Mon Jun 15 17:09:26 2009 From: pgspears at cox.net (Paul G. Spears) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:09:26 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <9BB5E9E82E6C4235A7658EFC38D7A361@COMPAQLAPTOP> Hi, list members: As a newcomer to the list, let me say that I have been impressed with the articles and comments I have read already. ?I am learning quickly that you members know your stuff, and that some of you might have a shot at becoming stand-up comedians if you ever want to change professions.? The repartee and camaraderie are delightful.? As I read the articles and follow the links, it strikes me that my only hope of becoming adequately knowledgeable about the significance and importance of meteorites is submersion in the books and exposure to the fields.? ? Concurrently with cracking the books, I am starting to acquire basic equipment for my first meteorite hunt.? With the experience most of you surely have had in using metal detectors, you may have found certain makes to be superior to others.? Any recommendations you may have for a quality detector would be greatly appreciated.? Also, I would like to try my hand at making a one-meter detector if anyone has instructions and specifications for them, or know who builds them.? Finally, I have a fairly good checklist of items needed in the field, but if you have a list that you have used to good advantage, it is likely much better than mine. I promise I will not burden you with repeated calls for help, but your geniality encourages me to make this request. It will better insure a proper start in my retirement to what I expect will be an interesting and worthy avocation.? Cordially, Paul G Spears From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 15 17:14:53 2009 From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:14:53 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <9BB5E9E82E6C4235A7658EFC38D7A361@COMPAQLAPTOP> Message-ID: Wow - you really are new to the list! ;-) some of you might have a shot at becoming > stand-up comedians if you ever want to change professions.? The repartee and > camaraderie are delightful.? A From ks1u at att.net Mon Jun 15 18:16:13 2009 From: ks1u at att.net (George Blahun Jr) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:16:13 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <9BB5E9E82E6C4235A7658EFC38D7A361@COMPAQLAPTOP> References: <9BB5E9E82E6C4235A7658EFC38D7A361@COMPAQLAPTOP> Message-ID: <1C2F83E2-F63A-427D-9532-54B5FFF60BD9@att.net> Paul: Welcome to the list. I normally read quietly, posting something every few months when the urge strikes. Everything you said is true, which makes this list one of my favorites. However, in addition to the immense knowledge and profound statements as well as cutting edge research and terrific bargains, you will also find an occasional brawl resembling a sixth grade schoolyard fight. I just wanted to give you a "heads up" on what some would call the downside of this list, but which I find "sociologically interesting". Without this caveat it might be similar to finding out as a child that your parents weren't perfect, like the first time I saw my normally calm dad give some other motorist the finger. Anyhow, I've been on this list for years, and unless I get kicked off for some reason (not very likely) I plan to be here for years to come. I'm sure you'll learn a lot and be entertained as well. George From darryl at dof3.com Mon Jun 15 19:55:20 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:55:20 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Oktibbeha County Super Ataxite? ...was The tale of a falling star ... Top Ten re: Ni content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hiya. The following list is not quite up to date. Now sliding in at #4 with 34.5% Ni is Lovina (Bali) On Jun 14, 2009, at 5:50 PM, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > "a Ni content of 60%. That might be the record!" > > Hi Elton and List, > > Yes, it it! Here are the top ten sorted by decreasing nickel content: > > Oktibbeha County - 60.1 > Lafayette (iron) - 59.4 > Dermbach - 42.1 > Santa Catharina - 33.8 > Tishomingo - 32.5 > Twin City - 30 > Lime Creek - 29.5 > Willow Grove - 27.9 > Barbianello - 27.1 > San Cristobal - 25.7 > > > Bernd - 0% Ni content ;-) > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 20:19:21 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:19:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] LDG on National Geographic Channel right now Message-ID: Heads up Listees! If you have digital cable, there is a documentary about Libyan Desert Glass on the National Geographic channel right now. (Nat Geo) Check your local listings. :) It's a good program. -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoritemike at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 21:02:45 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:02:45 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Unexpected Nininger Surprise - Millionaire Miner of the Milky Way! Message-ID: Hi Listees and Nininger-ites! I received a pleasant surprise in today's mail. It's a vintage men's pulp magazine called "Saga - the Magazine for Men" from December 1962. The cover has a John Wayne-esque Texan, cigar in mouth, standing in front of military jet. Cover stories include "Where the enslave Americans - an incredible report", "How to Write a Dirty Book - Biggest racket in the country", "Saga of the 1st Armored", and "Dogfights in Texas - All about the confederate Air Force". Nowhere on the cover is there any mention of the gem hidden inside this nostalgic 100 page pile of Cold War machismo. Pages of ads include cigarette (manly ones of course), fishing tackle, exercise bikes, smoking pipes, and the obligatory war surplus optics ads. Then there is the subject of this post - a 6 page article about Harvey Nininger entitled "Millionaire Miner of the Milky Way". The magazine has a small typeset, so there is a lot of Nininger information packed into this short article/bio/interview. In the article, Nininger recalls stories of hunting meteorites around the country, including Brenham and New Mexico. It also goes into Nininger's pre-meteorite days, his beginnings with hunting, and later chapters like the peak of his collecting and the American Meteorite Museum. I have uploaded some pics of the article and the photos in the article here. I will transcribe the captions for each photo link. - Nininger looking dapper in the field holding a magnet cane (no caption) - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/nininger/nininger-1.jpg ------------------------------------------- Nininger digging a hole - (caption reads - "To find meteorites, Nininger made cross bearings on every meteor sighting from dozens of witnesses.") http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/nininger/nininger-3.jpg ------------------------------------------------- 4 photos see captions - Clockwise from top - "Nininger's world famous meteorite museum in Sedona Arizona" "In the 1930's, Nininger and his shop assistant, the late R. S. Niswanger, developed a saw to cut meteorites" "In 1925, Nininger built his rolling cottage so he and his family could go meteorite hunting each summer." "Neatly displayed meteorite samples in Nininger's museum were found in 38 states and in 49 foreign countries." http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/nininger/nininger-2.jpg --------------------------------------- The cover of Saga Magazine, December 1962 - 35 cents : http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/nininger/saga-nininger.jpg ---------------------------------------- Enjoy! Best regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 15 22:35:11 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:35:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Unexpected Nininger Surprise - Millionaire Miner of the Milky Way! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:02:45 -0400, you wrote: >The cover of Saga Magazine, December 1962 - 35 cents : > >http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/nininger/saga-nininger.jpg > Nininger schmininger-- tell us how to write a dirty book. From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 05:53:26 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie Message-ID: <361315.80481.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Seriously, I'm in the wrong job. I've spent much of the last year putting together a mission to Mars game for our school. You can select individual crew members. For example, one is from the Kashmir region of India, one of her languages is a local dialect and her name is a traditional Kashmiri name, all carefully researched. If I'm capable of this level of attention to detail then how are the makers of "Impact" capable of getting something on the air that includes a fallen lunar meteorite crater that is so magnetic it disrupts a compass from a distance? I mean, if that's supposed to show some sort of research into meteorites it pays lipservice only. I want to go round and bite their ankles. And don't get me started on the meteors burning all the way to the ground or shooting down meteor fragments with F-15 fighters. ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!! At least Space 1999, had a the excuse of naievety to much of it. Anyone remember the scene in 3rd Rock From the Sun where they were laughing at Star Wars' depiction of space? "Impact" would have them in apoplexy. --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > From: Sterling K. Webb > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie > To: cynapse at charter.net, Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 7:43 PM > Hi, Darren, List, > > The commentator who thinks this > sets a new low for American television > and astronomical science was obviously > fortunate enough to have missed the > series "Space 1999" (to name only one). > > > Sterling K. Webb > ------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:21 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like > a really, really,really big pizza pie > > > > http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Tue Jun 16 08:42:16 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:42:16 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 16, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_16_2009.html __________________________ **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823265x1201398681/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From jan.hattenbach at gmx.de Tue Jun 16 10:11:34 2009 From: jan.hattenbach at gmx.de (Jan Hattenbach) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:11:34 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <009201c9edd6$064550c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> <009201c9edd6$064550c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <20090616141134.203940@gmx.net> Hello list, This story, in my very humble opinion, is rubbish. But I tried to convince myself and phoned the newspaper that has published it first. No detailled answer yet, the lady said "the stone is beeing inspected", did not know by whom. I will later try again to speak with one of the responsibles of the article. Will let you know if I learn something new! Cheers, Jan -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:26:22 +0200 > Von: "Martin Altmann" > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? > Yep, > > but the headlines are changing, sometimes to a super-dramatic "Teen > Survives > direct hit from a 30,000 mph space rock" > > and also the details in the story get embroidered. > Sometimes the boy was going home, sometimes he tried to catch the school > bus. Completley new is, that his ears were ringing for hours after the > fall > happened. > And his scar id getting longer, the "crater" broader and the "meteorite" > faster and faster! (record I read was 250,000 mph). > > So far I remember only one article in English language, where a critical > voice was heard - when somebody asked Darryll Pitt. > > A clarification or disclaimer we never will read. > As after the news has lost its sensation and is getting old, it will be > over. > > Like it was with the Grandma from UK, the girl from UK or Grampa's arbour > burnt down by meteoritic fire in Germany, > There you never heard about again. > > Best! > Martin > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Meteorites USA [mailto:eric at meteoritesusa.com] > Gesendet: Montag, 15. Juni 2009 17:36 > An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? > > Hi Martin, > > Thanks again for the link... > > This story is running rampant across the whole internet. You can't surf > the web without running into this story. And worse... It's all merely > the same thing being repeated and retold all over the web from the > original story. No verification, no reliable test results, and no fact > checking at all. Just rampant rumor... It's dumb that people can't find > out what really happened before posting this story all over. Even > Discovery magazine posted something about it, though in a debunking sort > of way. Normally I would have posted an article on my site about this by > now on something this significant, but without any verification it's > pointless. > > Jeez, if it's real then I'm totally stoked! This would be an historical > event to say the least. But either way someone needs to do some > investigation and post the truth about it regardless of what that truth > turns out to be. Too bad I don't speak German, I'd be all over this story! > > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > > > Martin Altmann wrote: > > Ja but they're changing the story to make it more interesting. > > > > Read from U.K. > > > > "Chemical tests on the rock have now proved it is from outer space. > > > > Ansgar Korte, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: > "It's > > a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and > > scientists." > > > > > > And here is the original, they're referring to: > > > > > http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/essen/2009/6/9/news-122291315/de > > tail.html > > > > > > Where Korte is quoted:" If it's really a true meteorite, then the > specimen > > will have a certain value for collectors and mineralogists" > > > > And in the following he recommends places, where the stone could be > tested, > > whether it is a meteorite. > > > > > > That story of course is rubbish. > > A prank, not more. > > > > Martin > > > > Btw. it seems to be a boy... > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > > Meteorites USA > > Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Juni 2009 19:20 > > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? > > > > Hi Listees, > > > > The story has gone worldwide fast... The reports are merely repeating > > what the original report stated and from what I can see there is no > > verification... > > > > Skeptical? Is anyone else researching this? Maybe one of our German > > friends on-list might lend a hand and call the local paper there that > > first broke the story and see if they can get an interview with the boy > > to help confirm or verify what actually happened? > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > > > > Yahoo News UK: > > > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090612/tod-boy-hit-by-meteorite-travelling-at-3 > > -870a197.html > > > > Space.com: > > http://www.space.com/news/090612-boy-hit-by-meteorite.html > > > > FoxNews.com > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525992,00.html > > > > > > SkyNews.com > > > http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Boy-Hit-On-Arm-By-White-Hot-Mete > > > orite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos=W > > > orld_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251_ > > Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot > > > > > eorite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos= > > > World_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251 > > _Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot> > > > > Daily Telegraph: Australia > > > http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25625253-5012895,00.html > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > Has there been confirmation yet? If... And this is a BIG IF. If this is > > a real story and th boy really did get hit with a meteorite there could > > be more meteorite on th ground. This would be a very famous fall to > > recover if it turns out to be verifiable! > > > > Can anyone confirm? > > > > Regards, > > Eric Wichman > > Meteorites USA > > > > > > > > > > Meteorites USA wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> > >> This just in... > >> > >> Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. > >> > >> ------------------------------------------ > >> > >> "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing > >> 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." > >> > >> Meteor hits boy on way to school > >> Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET > >> > >> ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, > >> and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche > >> Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on > >> my hand.? > >> > >> The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but > >> Blank knew something special had happened to him. > >> > >> ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from > >> the heat as it went by me,? he said. > >> > >> After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a > >> sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from > >> his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school > >> with him. > >> > >> ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. > His > >> parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. > >> > >> Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested > >> the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble > >> is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. > >> > >> Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. > >> > >> SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html > >> > >> ------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Another site reports: > >> > >> SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky > >> > >> SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. > >> A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the > >> sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white > >> cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm > >> cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it > >> and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? > >> Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. > >> > >> SOURCE: > >> > >> > > > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news- > > ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > > > >> -------------------------------------------- > >> > >> So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? > >> > >> Anyone else have any info? > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Das Universum expandiert? Komisch, ich finde immer seltener einem Parkplatz! (Harald Lesch) GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate und Telefonanschluss f?r nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Tue Jun 16 10:45:55 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:45:55 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Green lights/meteor seen in uk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090616154555.SXRT6.194882.root@web06-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi all, Just caught the end of a news article this morning saying that strange green flare like lights were seen near the south coast area of UK....'possibly a meteor shower'. Any one else seen reports? Graham Ensor, ---- "Fries wrote: > Wow - you really are new to the list! ;-) > > > some of you might have a shot at becoming > > stand-up comedians if you ever want to change professions.? The repartee and > > camaraderie are delightful.? A > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From drtanuki at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 10:53:53 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Green lights/meteor seen in uk Message-ID: <88560.14302.qm@web53107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Graham and List, Posted on The Latest Worldwide Meteor/Meteorite News a few hours ago. For this story and others: http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ If you would like to news emails directly to your email please sign either for RSS feeds or JOIN as a follower. Thank you for your reading daily. If anyone has a story or news item that they would like posted please contact me. Dirk...Tokyo England Latest Meteor News-Meteors cause flare alert calls 16JUN09 Meteors cause flare alert calls BBC-16JUN09 Calls were made to coastguards across England's south coast, including Cornwall, Devon and Hampshire, reporting white and green flares. Reports were also made to coastguards in Jersey and France for about 30 minutes from about 2130 BST on Monday. ... (more) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/8102331.stm --- On Tue, 6/16/09, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com wrote: > From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Green lights/meteor seen in uk > To: "List" > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 11:45 PM > Hi all, > > Just caught the end of a news article this morning saying > that strange green flare like lights were seen near the > south coast area of UK....'possibly a meteor shower'. > > Any one else seen reports? > > Graham Ensor, > > > ---- "Fries wrote: > > Wow - you really are new to the list!? ;-) > > > > > >? some of you might have a shot at becoming > > > stand-up comedians if you ever want to change > professions.? The repartee and > > > camaraderie are delightful.? A > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From jan.hattenbach at gmx.de Tue Jun 16 11:11:30 2009 From: jan.hattenbach at gmx.de (Jan Hattenbach) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:11:30 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <20090616141134.203940@gmx.net> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> <009201c9edd6$064550c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <20090616141134.203940@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20090616151130.52220@gmx.net> Hello list, no news so far. I just talked to the author of the original article. He confirmed the story. The stone is currently being investigated and the boy is planning to do a TV-interview, in which the whole story is supposed to be resolved. I am eager to see what comes out. I still do not believe... Regards, Jan -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:11:34 +0200 > Von: "Jan Hattenbach" > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? > Hello list, > > This story, in my very humble opinion, is rubbish. But I tried to convince > myself and phoned the newspaper that has published it first. No detailled > answer yet, the lady said "the stone is beeing inspected", did not know by > whom. I will later try again to speak with one of the responsibles of the > article. Will let you know if I learn something new! > > Cheers, Jan > > -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > > Datum: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:26:22 +0200 > > Von: "Martin Altmann" > > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? > > > Yep, > > > > but the headlines are changing, sometimes to a super-dramatic "Teen > > Survives > > direct hit from a 30,000 mph space rock" > > > > and also the details in the story get embroidered. > > Sometimes the boy was going home, sometimes he tried to catch the school > > bus. Completley new is, that his ears were ringing for hours after the > > fall > > happened. > > And his scar id getting longer, the "crater" broader and the "meteorite" > > faster and faster! (record I read was 250,000 mph). > > > > So far I remember only one article in English language, where a critical > > voice was heard - when somebody asked Darryll Pitt. > > > > A clarification or disclaimer we never will read. > > As after the news has lost its sensation and is getting old, it will be > > over. > > > > Like it was with the Grandma from UK, the girl from UK or Grampa's > arbour > > burnt down by meteoritic fire in Germany, > > There you never heard about again. > > > > Best! > > Martin > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Meteorites USA [mailto:eric at meteoritesusa.com] > > Gesendet: Montag, 15. Juni 2009 17:36 > > An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? > > > > Hi Martin, > > > > Thanks again for the link... > > > > This story is running rampant across the whole internet. You can't surf > > the web without running into this story. And worse... It's all merely > > the same thing being repeated and retold all over the web from the > > original story. No verification, no reliable test results, and no fact > > checking at all. Just rampant rumor... It's dumb that people can't find > > out what really happened before posting this story all over. Even > > Discovery magazine posted something about it, though in a debunking sort > > of way. Normally I would have posted an article on my site about this by > > now on something this significant, but without any verification it's > > pointless. > > > > Jeez, if it's real then I'm totally stoked! This would be an historical > > event to say the least. But either way someone needs to do some > > investigation and post the truth about it regardless of what that truth > > turns out to be. Too bad I don't speak German, I'd be all over this > story! > > > > Regards, > > Eric Wichman > > Meteorites USA > > > > > > Martin Altmann wrote: > > > Ja but they're changing the story to make it more interesting. > > > > > > Read from U.K. > > > > > > "Chemical tests on the rock have now proved it is from outer space. > > > > > > Ansgar Korte, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: > > "It's > > > a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and > > > scientists." > > > > > > > > > And here is the original, they're referring to: > > > > > > > > > http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/essen/2009/6/9/news-122291315/de > > > tail.html > > > > > > > > > Where Korte is quoted:" If it's really a true meteorite, then the > > specimen > > > will have a certain value for collectors and mineralogists" > > > > > > And in the following he recommends places, where the stone could be > > tested, > > > whether it is a meteorite. > > > > > > > > > That story of course is rubbish. > > > A prank, not more. > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > Btw. it seems to be a boy... > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > > > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > > > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > > > Meteorites USA > > > Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Juni 2009 19:20 > > > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? > > > > > > Hi Listees, > > > > > > The story has gone worldwide fast... The reports are merely repeating > > > what the original report stated and from what I can see there is no > > > verification... > > > > > > Skeptical? Is anyone else researching this? Maybe one of our German > > > friends on-list might lend a hand and call the local paper there that > > > first broke the story and see if they can get an interview with the > boy > > > to help confirm or verify what actually happened? > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Yahoo News UK: > > > > > > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090612/tod-boy-hit-by-meteorite-travelling-at-3 > > > -870a197.html > > > > > > Space.com: > > > http://www.space.com/news/090612-boy-hit-by-meteorite.html > > > > > > FoxNews.com > > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525992,00.html > > > > > > > > > SkyNews.com > > > > > > http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Boy-Hit-On-Arm-By-White-Hot-Mete > > > > > > orite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos=W > > > > > > orld_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251_ > > > Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot > > > > > > > > > > > eorite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos= > > > > > > World_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251 > > > _Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot> > > > > > > Daily Telegraph: Australia > > > > > > http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25625253-5012895,00.html > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Has there been confirmation yet? If... And this is a BIG IF. If this > is > > > a real story and th boy really did get hit with a meteorite there > could > > > be more meteorite on th ground. This would be a very famous fall to > > > recover if it turns out to be verifiable! > > > > > > Can anyone confirm? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Eric Wichman > > > Meteorites USA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meteorites USA wrote: > > > > > >> Hi all, > > >> > > >> This just in... > > >> > > >> Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------------ > > >> > > >> "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing > > >> 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school > bus..." > > >> > > >> Meteor hits boy on way to school > > >> Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET > > >> > > >> ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand > hurt, > > >> and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche > > >> Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something > on > > >> my hand.? > > >> > > >> The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but > > >> Blank knew something special had happened to him. > > >> > > >> ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from > > >> the heat as it went by me,? he said. > > >> > > >> After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a > > >> sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea > from > > >> his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school > > >> with him. > > >> > > >> ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. > > His > > >> parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school > day. > > >> > > >> Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested > > >> the round, black object and already found some confirmation the > pebble > > >> is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. > > >> > > >> Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. > > >> > > >> SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------------- > > >> > > >> Another site reports: > > >> > > >> SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky > > >> > > >> SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. > > >> A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the > > >> sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white > > >> cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm > > >> cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over > it > > >> and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? > > >> Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. > > >> > > >> SOURCE: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news- > > > ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > > > > > >> -------------------------------------------- > > >> > > >> So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? > > >> > > >> Anyone else have any info? > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- > Das Universum expandiert? Komisch, ich finde immer seltener einem > Parkplatz! (Harald Lesch) > > GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate und Telefonanschluss > f?r nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Das Universum expandiert? Komisch, ich finde immer seltener einem Parkplatz! (Harald Lesch) GRATIS f?r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 From almitt at kconline.com Tue Jun 16 11:19:01 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:19:01 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Unexpected Nininger Surprise - Millionaire Minerof the Milky Way! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mike G and all, Thanks for sharing these with us!! The first picture and the page article talks about a pilot having to avoid a collison with an incoming meteor, breaking up just under the plane. Thought I would share a Nininger Moment with the group! http://www.meteorite.com/nininger/nininger-moments-17.htm On on your second pic scan of the article Nininger sets the story straight with the editor that called him on the phone as he does in the Nininger moment above. Best! --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:02 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Unexpected Nininger Surprise - Millionaire Minerof the Milky Way! > Hi Listees and Nininger-ites! > > Nininger looking dapper in the field holding a magnet cane (no caption) - > > http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/nininger/nininger-1.jpg From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Tue Jun 16 11:39:57 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:39:57 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka Message-ID: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> I'm sure Darren will like that too... http://english.pravda.ru/society/anomal/107305-Boguslavka_Meteorite-0 ;-) Martin From GeoZay at aol.com Tue Jun 16 11:48:36 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:48:36 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Green lights/meteor seen in uk Message-ID: >>England Latest Meteor News-Meteors cause flare alert calls 16JUN09<< The article was short and not too much to it, but I do get the impression that there was a genuine meteor outburst that lasted for about 30 minutes. I also note that the June Lyrids peaked on the 16th. If related, most likely no meteorites will be found. GeoZay **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823265x1201398681/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 12:37:49 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:37:49 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka In-Reply-To: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Hi Martin and List! I have a carbonaceous chondrite (CV3) slice that has the face of Groucho Marx on it. I thought this was a pleasant fluke and coincidence until I cut open a Gibeon iron and saw the profile of Harpo Marx. It seems that meteorites have an affinity for famous people named "Marx". Taking this into account, please look at the Boguslavka photos in the article again. Is that really Jesus Christ? To me, it looks like Karl Marx, and this would be more consistent with what I have observed. Best regards, MikeG On 6/16/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > I'm sure Darren will like that too... > > http://english.pravda.ru/society/anomal/107305-Boguslavka_Meteorite-0 > > > ;-) > Martin > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 16 13:05:03 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:05:03 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka References: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <9EC14A921B854691AF22649E22FDBEB1@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, Wouldn't it be more likely that an extraterrestrial meteorite would have hidden inside it the face of an alien? Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Martin Altmann" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka > Hi Martin and List! > > I have a carbonaceous chondrite (CV3) slice that has the face of > Groucho Marx on it. I thought this was a pleasant fluke and > coincidence until I cut open a Gibeon iron and saw the profile of > Harpo Marx. > > It seems that meteorites have an affinity for famous people named > "Marx". Taking this into account, please look at the Boguslavka > photos in the article again. Is that really Jesus Christ? To me, it > looks like Karl Marx, and this would be more consistent with what I > have observed. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > On 6/16/09, Martin Altmann wrote: >> I'm sure Darren will like that too... >> >> http://english.pravda.ru/society/anomal/107305-Boguslavka_Meteorite-0 >> >> >> ;-) >> Martin >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From almitt at kconline.com Tue Jun 16 14:22:14 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:22:14 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Interesting eBay Items In-Reply-To: References: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Greetings, I am putting up a number of items that should be of interest to collectors, including Lafayette, Indiana, Powellsville, Ohio, Zag (larger slice) and Lost City plus some other items. Here is the link: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZ All my best to everyone! --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites From cdtucson at cox.net Tue Jun 16 14:47:46 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:47:46 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Re: When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie Message-ID: <20090616144746.I968B.408458.imail@fed1rmwml36> > Rob, > You said > "And don't get me started on the meteors burning all the way to the ground " > I'm no expert but? > Meteors may not burn all the way to the ground but it is believed possible that an impact can be hot enough to melt the ground into Tektite glass, right? So, wouldn't that generate sufficient heat to start a fire if it hit a source of fuel like a wooded area? Carancas hit hard enough to boil the water in the water well it hit (true fact). Many witnesses to that. But there was no fuel there to burn so no actual fire broke out. > So, I can almost see why they would depict the meteors as hot and fiery but the real cause of fires being started is from the heat caused by the impact not the heat of the actual meteor, right? My 2 cents. > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5829 > > ---- Rob McCafferty wrote: > > > > > > > > Seriously, I'm in the wrong job. I've spent much of the last year putting together a mission to Mars game for our school. You can select individual crew members. For example, one is from the Kashmir region of India, one of her languages is a local dialect and her name is a traditional Kashmiri name, all carefully researched. > > > > If I'm capable of this level of attention to detail then how are the makers of "Impact" capable of getting something on the air that includes a fallen lunar meteorite crater that is so magnetic it disrupts a compass from a distance? I mean, if that's supposed to show some sort of research into meteorites it pays lipservice only. I want to go round and bite their ankles. > > > > And don't get me started on the meteors burning all the way to the ground or shooting down meteor fragments with F-15 fighters. ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!! > > > > At least Space 1999, had a the excuse of naievety to much of it. > > Anyone remember the scene in 3rd Rock From the Sun where they were laughing at Star Wars' depiction of space? "Impact" would have them in apoplexy. > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > > > > > From: Sterling K. Webb > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie > > > To: cynapse at charter.net, Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 7:43 PM > > > Hi, Darren, List, > > > > > > The commentator who thinks this > > > sets a new low for American television > > > and astronomical science was obviously > > > fortunate enough to have missed the > > > series "Space 1999" (to name only one). > > > > > > > > > Sterling K. Webb > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:21 AM > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like > > > a really, really,really big pizza pie > > > > > > > > > > http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gsac at gmx.net Tue Jun 16 14:57:01 2009 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:57:01 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka In-Reply-To: References: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <20090616185701.226440@gmx.net> > It seems that meteorites have an affinity for famous people named > "Marx". Taking this into account, please look at the Boguslavka > photos in the article again. Is that really Jesus Christ? To me, it > looks like Karl Marx, and this would be more consistent with what I > have observed. So this is why "...this marks something up"...?? :-) Alex Berlin/Germany From eric at meteoritesusa.com Tue Jun 16 14:58:12 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:58:12 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <20090616151130.52220@gmx.net> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> <009201c9edd6$064550c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <20090616141134.203940@gmx.net> <20090616151130.52220@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4A37EB44.50104@meteoritesusa.com> Hi Jan, Thanks for the updates. Try getting the name and contact info of the lab or person/scientist who is examining the stone. If you or anyone could talk with them and get an answer that would be great. Getting an interview with the boy is probably pointless, as he's most likely been interviewed so many time the story is probably tainted with exaggeration and embellishments. Keep it up, and keep us updated... Regards, Eric Jan Hattenbach wrote: > Hello list, > > no news so far. I just talked to the author of the original article. He confirmed the story. The stone is currently being investigated and the boy is planning to do a TV-interview, in which the whole story is supposed to be resolved. I am eager to see what comes out. I still do not believe... > > Regards, Jan > > -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > >> Datum: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:11:34 +0200 >> Von: "Jan Hattenbach" >> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? >> > > >> Hello list, >> >> This story, in my very humble opinion, is rubbish. But I tried to convince >> myself and phoned the newspaper that has published it first. No detailled >> answer yet, the lady said "the stone is beeing inspected", did not know by >> whom. I will later try again to speak with one of the responsibles of the >> article. Will let you know if I learn something new! >> >> Cheers, Jan >> >> -------- Original-Nachricht -------- >> >>> Datum: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:26:22 +0200 >>> Von: "Martin Altmann" >>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? >>> >>> Yep, >>> >>> but the headlines are changing, sometimes to a super-dramatic "Teen >>> Survives >>> direct hit from a 30,000 mph space rock" >>> >>> and also the details in the story get embroidered. >>> Sometimes the boy was going home, sometimes he tried to catch the school >>> bus. Completley new is, that his ears were ringing for hours after the >>> fall >>> happened. >>> And his scar id getting longer, the "crater" broader and the "meteorite" >>> faster and faster! (record I read was 250,000 mph). >>> >>> So far I remember only one article in English language, where a critical >>> voice was heard - when somebody asked Darryll Pitt. >>> >>> A clarification or disclaimer we never will read. >>> As after the news has lost its sensation and is getting old, it will be >>> over. >>> >>> Like it was with the Grandma from UK, the girl from UK or Grampa's >>> >> arbour >> >>> burnt down by meteoritic fire in Germany, >>> There you never heard about again. >>> >>> Best! >>> Martin >>> >>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: Meteorites USA [mailto:eric at meteoritesusa.com] >>> Gesendet: Montag, 15. Juni 2009 17:36 >>> An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? >>> >>> Hi Martin, >>> >>> Thanks again for the link... >>> >>> This story is running rampant across the whole internet. You can't surf >>> the web without running into this story. And worse... It's all merely >>> the same thing being repeated and retold all over the web from the >>> original story. No verification, no reliable test results, and no fact >>> checking at all. Just rampant rumor... It's dumb that people can't find >>> out what really happened before posting this story all over. Even >>> Discovery magazine posted something about it, though in a debunking sort >>> of way. Normally I would have posted an article on my site about this by >>> now on something this significant, but without any verification it's >>> pointless. >>> >>> Jeez, if it's real then I'm totally stoked! This would be an historical >>> event to say the least. But either way someone needs to do some >>> investigation and post the truth about it regardless of what that truth >>> turns out to be. Too bad I don't speak German, I'd be all over this >>> >> story! >> >>> Regards, >>> Eric Wichman >>> Meteorites USA >>> >>> >>> Martin Altmann wrote: >>> >>>> Ja but they're changing the story to make it more interesting. >>>> >>>> Read from U.K. >>>> >>>> "Chemical tests on the rock have now proved it is from outer space. >>>> >>>> Ansgar Korte, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: >>>> >>> "It's >>> >>>> a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and >>>> scientists." >>>> >>>> >>>> And here is the original, they're referring to: >>>> >>>> >>>> >> http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/essen/2009/6/9/news-122291315/de >> >>>> tail.html >>>> >>>> >>>> Where Korte is quoted:" If it's really a true meteorite, then the >>>> >>> specimen >>> >>>> will have a certain value for collectors and mineralogists" >>>> >>>> And in the following he recommends places, where the stone could be >>>> >>> tested, >>> >>>> whether it is a meteorite. >>>> >>>> >>>> That story of course is rubbish. >>>> A prank, not more. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> Btw. it seems to be a boy... >>>> >>>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >>>> Meteorites USA >>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Juni 2009 19:20 >>>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? >>>> >>>> Hi Listees, >>>> >>>> The story has gone worldwide fast... The reports are merely repeating >>>> what the original report stated and from what I can see there is no >>>> verification... >>>> >>>> Skeptical? Is anyone else researching this? Maybe one of our German >>>> friends on-list might lend a hand and call the local paper there that >>>> first broke the story and see if they can get an interview with the >>>> >> boy >> >>>> to help confirm or verify what actually happened? >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Yahoo News UK: >>>> >>>> >> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090612/tod-boy-hit-by-meteorite-travelling-at-3 >> >>>> -870a197.html >>>> >>>> Space.com: >>>> http://www.space.com/news/090612-boy-hit-by-meteorite.html >>>> >>>> FoxNews.com >>>> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525992,00.html >>>> >>>> >>>> SkyNews.com >>>> >>>> >> http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Boy-Hit-On-Arm-By-White-Hot-Mete >> >> orite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos=W >> >> orld_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251_ >> >>>> Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot >>>> >>>> >> > >> eorite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos= >> >> World_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251 >> >>>> _Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot> >>>> >>>> Daily Telegraph: Australia >>>> >>>> >> http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25625253-5012895,00.html >> >>>> --------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Has there been confirmation yet? If... And this is a BIG IF. If this >>>> >> is >> >>>> a real story and th boy really did get hit with a meteorite there >>>> >> could >> >>>> be more meteorite on th ground. This would be a very famous fall to >>>> recover if it turns out to be verifiable! >>>> >>>> Can anyone confirm? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Eric Wichman >>>> Meteorites USA >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Meteorites USA wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> This just in... >>>>> >>>>> Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing >>>>> 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school >>>>> >> bus..." >> >>>>> Meteor hits boy on way to school >>>>> Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET >>>>> >>>>> ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand >>>>> >> hurt, >> >>>>> and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche >>>>> Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something >>>>> >> on >> >>>>> my hand.? >>>>> >>>>> The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but >>>>> Blank knew something special had happened to him. >>>>> >>>>> ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from >>>>> the heat as it went by me,? he said. >>>>> >>>>> After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a >>>>> sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea >>>>> >> from >> >>>>> his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school >>>>> with him. >>>>> >>>>> ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. >>>>> >>> His >>> >>>>> parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school >>>>> >> day. >> >>>>> Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested >>>>> the round, black object and already found some confirmation the >>>>> >> pebble >> >>>>> is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. >>>>> >>>>> Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. >>>>> >>>>> SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Another site reports: >>>>> >>>>> SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky >>>>> >>>>> SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. >>>>> A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the >>>>> sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white >>>>> cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm >>>>> cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over >>>>> >> it >> >>>>> and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? >>>>> Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. >>>>> >>>>> SOURCE: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news- >> >>>> ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html >>>> >>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? >>>>> >>>>> Anyone else have any info? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> -- >> Das Universum expandiert? Komisch, ich finde immer seltener einem >> Parkplatz! (Harald Lesch) >> >> GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate und Telefonanschluss >> f?r nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > From majbaermann at web.de Tue Jun 16 15:12:14 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:12:14 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka References: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <20090616185701.226440@gmx.net> Message-ID: O that would mean that ... that from now on we'd have to imagine no longer little green, but little red men. With beards. Completely disillusioned, Matthias B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Seidel" To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" ; Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka Is that really Jesus Christ? To me, it looks like Karl Marx, and this would be more consistent with what I have observed. ____________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Tue Jun 16 15:47:26 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:47:26 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? Message-ID: <431A02591E1248708266E5A9BA1F00A9@ET> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/0667086000.jpg?t=1245180536 http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E95000005DC-83.jpg? http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/SNN1235HH-380_823358a.jpg?t=1245180707 http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E95000005DC-34.jpg? http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/_45916040_cen_meteoriteboy_03.jpg?t=1245180773 Here are some pics from this story on our young P.T. Barnum which at last count had over 100 article links on Google News. I haven't read them all, they pretty much rehash the original story with some added embellishments. Incredibly, every single story I've read makes the same misquote: Ansgar Kortem, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: "It's a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and scientists." According to the original German article, the actual quote is: " If it's a real meteorite, it's therefore very valuable to collectors and scientists". What a difference one word makes! It's almost as if not a single one of the journalists bothered to check the primary source story. Probably not surprising since it was in German and would require some effort to translate. More work than I'd want to do for $8 an hour (what I was offered to write for the South Bend , (IN) Tribune.) Anyway it's a fun story to follow, and I'm curious to see how the Susan Boyle of the meteorite world ends up. Probably more like the Octo Mom narrative. So, whaddya think, a carbonaceous chondrite, with black exterior and interior? I'm pretty sure the filled in pothole in front of the kid is supposed to be the impact crater. (LOL!) In all the stories, mention is given to only one person saying this is a Newtonian impossibility: Darryl Pitt who is given the role of voice in the wilderness by MSNBC in one of the earlier stories. Bad Astronomy's (Discover) Phil Plait believes that an exploding fireball increased the velocity of the pea sized stone (hasn't this theory been debunked on the List?) and that the kid's injury was from shrapnel from the asphalt crater. And he says this with a straight face! Phil got a little miffed at me for saying that no real astronomer would believe any part of this shaggy dog story. Phil Whitmer From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 16 15:48:12 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:48:12 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie References: <361315.80481.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, Rob, List, Naivet? is not an excuse; it is another name for gross ignorance. In Space 1999, the Moon is blasted free of the Solar System to wander the darkness of the interstellar void. Yet, whenever they set foot outside of Moonbase Alpha, abundant sunlight streams down upon them and a fully illuminated lunar landscape stretches our before them. How do you get Sunlight without the Sun? In my universe, no Sun -- no Sunlight. How about you? It's 1975. We've just quit going to the Actual Moon, even though the money has been allocated for a total of 24 missions (with an option on an additional 24). No, President Nixon has found a better use for it, a more pressing need for the cash. Something about burglar tools, I believe. So, here, look at this "Moon" instead. Maybe the word "ignorance" doesn't cover it either. And it was wrong of me to compare them and suggest that one would be better than the other. It's like choosing between the infernal torment of being dipped in a lake of fire or having small red demons pour molten lead in your ears nonstop. (Thank you, Dante, for the imagery.) There's not much to choose between. Even better are the scenes where people are sucked up into the air, right out of their seats, by the increased gravity of the Moon. I calculate that it would take roughly 3600 gee's to do that from the distance of the Moon. So, is that better-worse than Space 1999's Sunlight without any Sun? I can't choose. You pick. Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCafferty" To: "Sterling K. Webb" ; ; Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 4:53 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really,really, really big pizza pie > > > > Seriously, I'm in the wrong job. I've spent much of the last year > putting together a mission to Mars game for our school. You can select > individual crew members. For example, one is from the Kashmir region > of India, one of her languages is a local dialect and her name is a > traditional Kashmiri name, all carefully researched. > > If I'm capable of this level of attention to detail then how are the > makers of "Impact" capable of getting something on the air that > includes a fallen lunar meteorite crater that is so magnetic it > disrupts a compass from a distance? I mean, if that's supposed to show > some sort of research into meteorites it pays lipservice only. I want > to go round and bite their ankles. > > And don't get me started on the meteors burning all the way to the > ground or shooting down meteor fragments with F-15 fighters. > ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!! > > At least Space 1999, had a the excuse of naievety to much of it. > Anyone remember the scene in 3rd Rock From the Sun where they were > laughing at Star Wars' depiction of space? "Impact" would have them in > apoplexy. > > > --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Sterling K. Webb > wrote: > >> From: Sterling K. Webb >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a >> really, really, really big pizza pie >> To: cynapse at charter.net, Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 7:43 PM >> Hi, Darren, List, >> >> The commentator who thinks this >> sets a new low for American television >> and astronomical science was obviously >> fortunate enough to have missed the >> series "Space 1999" (to name only one). >> >> >> Sterling K. Webb >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" >> >> To: >> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:21 AM >> Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like >> a really, really,really big pizza pie >> >> >> > http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ >> > ______________________________________________ >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Tue Jun 16 16:03:22 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:03:22 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Re: When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie In-Reply-To: <20090616144746.I968B.408458.imail@fed1rmwml36> References: <20090616144746.I968B.408458.imail@fed1rmwml36> Message-ID: <4A37FA8A.8000306@meteoritesusa.com> Carl, My understanding of this phenomena is that the meteoroid must be very large to hold enough heat all the way to the ground sufficient enough to possibly start a fire. In other words it would most likely haver to be traveling at cosmic velocity at impact with the ground. Which is not possible for a small sized meteoroid. Of course the word small is subjective. So to answer your question I would say yes. A very large meteorite impact causes intense heat... Probably enough to start a fire, but only if the meteoroid has enough mass and speed. The angle of decent has a lot to do with the ability of the meteoroid to retain it's cosmic velocity. As does it's composition. If it's a stony meteorite and very large it might make impact and may be hot but we don't know really. Look at Carancas meteorite. This chondrite was supposedly 10 ft in diameter according to Wikipedia's article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Peruvian_meteorite_event It blew out windows 1km away, and the crater was some 43 feet across and 15 ft deep. The SAO/NASA ADS at Harvard.edu site has the speed at 2-4 kms, And the size at 0.9 to 1.7 m. Still small... "...This example demonstrates that meteoroid strength can vary significantly from case to case and does not depend on meteoroid size..." The West, Texas fall (Ash Creek) was reported by eye witnesses to be as large as a truck. That would be a few tons in weight. Peekskill of course was supposedly warm to the touch right after falling. And then of course you have the report just a little while back about a supposed meteorite being so hot right after falling in the middle of a village in India that the valligers had to douse it with water to cool it enough to touch. This didn't seem right to me, and I thought it might have been sensationalist reporting. Not to mention the unconfirmed story of a pea sized meteorite hitting a German boy just last week. Reportedly this meteoroid was traveling at 30,000 mph when it struck the boy in the back of the hand. NOT! So why did the West Texas, and Peekskill meteoroids breakup? For that matter, Consider Buzzard Coulee too. If what the information on Harvard's site says is correct, then composition has a lot to do with a meteoroid retaining enough speed to make a crater, or be hot upon impact. Considering this why wouldn't it be feasible to compare compositions, angle of descent, and speed to figure out why Carancas created a crater and the other recent falls didn't. Buzzard Coulee - H4 Carancas - H4-5 West Texas (Ash Creek) - L6 Peekskill - H6 Park Forest - L5 What does it take for a meteorite to be hot after impact? It varies... All conditions have to be perfect. Are there really too many variables to consider? Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA dtucson at cox.net wrote: > >> Rob, >> You said >> "And don't get me started on the meteors burning all the way to the ground " >> I'm no expert but? >> Meteors may not burn all the way to the ground but it is believed possible that an impact can be hot enough to melt the ground into Tektite glass, right? So, wouldn't that generate sufficient heat to start a fire if it hit a source of fuel like a wooded area? Carancas hit hard enough to boil the water in the water well it hit (true fact). Many witnesses to that. But there was no fuel there to burn so no actual fire broke out. >> So, I can almost see why they would depict the meteors as hot and fiery but the real cause of fires being started is from the heat caused by the impact not the heat of the actual meteor, right? My 2 cents. >> Carl Esparza >> IMCA 5829 >> >> ---- Rob McCafferty wrote: >> >>> >>> Seriously, I'm in the wrong job. I've spent much of the last year putting together a mission to Mars game for our school. You can select individual crew members. For example, one is from the Kashmir region of India, one of her languages is a local dialect and her name is a traditional Kashmiri name, all carefully researched. >>> >>> If I'm capable of this level of attention to detail then how are the makers of "Impact" capable of getting something on the air that includes a fallen lunar meteorite crater that is so magnetic it disrupts a compass from a distance? I mean, if that's supposed to show some sort of research into meteorites it pays lipservice only. I want to go round and bite their ankles. >>> >>> And don't get me started on the meteors burning all the way to the ground or shooting down meteor fragments with F-15 fighters. ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!! >>> >>> At least Space 1999, had a the excuse of naievety to much of it. >>> Anyone remember the scene in 3rd Rock From the Sun where they were laughing at Star Wars' depiction of space? "Impact" would have them in apoplexy. >>> >>> >>> --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: >>> >>> >>>> From: Sterling K. Webb >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie >>>> To: cynapse at charter.net, Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 7:43 PM >>>> Hi, Darren, List, >>>> >>>> The commentator who thinks this >>>> sets a new low for American television >>>> and astronomical science was obviously >>>> fortunate enough to have missed the >>>> series "Space 1999" (to name only one). >>>> >>>> >>>> Sterling K. Webb >>>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:21 AM >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like >>>> a really, really,really big pizza pie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Tue Jun 16 16:11:37 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:11:37 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie Message-ID: <595C52F44A684950A8153013554B14BE@ET> Hi Carl, Eric: Wasn't it our own Sterling K. Webb that determined it was the aerodynamic shape of the Carancas meteorite that was responsible for the crater formation? Something about the difference between a frisbee and the flat bottomed reentry space capsules? Phil Whitmer From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 16:16:03 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:16:03 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka In-Reply-To: References: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <20090616185701.226440@gmx.net> Message-ID: Matthias, Alex and Martin - LOL. You can also clearly see the "cutting marx" from the saw blade on the specimen. ;) Best regards, MikeG On 6/16/09, Matthias B?rmann wrote: > O that would mean that ... that from now on we'd have to imagine no longer > little green, but little red men. With beards. > > Completely disillusioned, > > Matthias B. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alexander Seidel" > To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" ; > > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:57 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka > > Is that really Jesus Christ? To me, it > looks like Karl Marx, and this would be more consistent with what I > have observed. > > > > ____________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jun 16 16:07:54 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 16 Jun 2009 20:07:54 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] O.R. Norton Obituary in the online Meteoritical Bulletin Message-ID: Hello Folks, Please, have a look! http://meteoriticalsociety.org/simple_template.cfm?code=pub_bulletin Best wishes, Bernd From cdtucson at cox.net Tue Jun 16 16:25:10 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:25:10 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie In-Reply-To: <595C52F44A684950A8153013554B14BE@ET> Message-ID: <20090616162510.UWJYY.410343.imail@fed1rmwml36> Phil, I don't remember Sterling saying that exactly but if he thinks that then I believe him. Thanks. Carl ---- JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: > Hi Carl, Eric: > > Wasn't it our own Sterling K. Webb that determined it was the aerodynamic > shape of the Carancas meteorite that was responsible for the crater > formation? Something about the difference between a frisbee and the flat > bottomed reentry space capsules? > > Phil Whitmer > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jun 16 16:45:47 2009 From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:45:47 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <431A02591E1248708266E5A9BA1F00A9@ET> Message-ID: Wow. This has gone from a side trip to WTFia to a full-blown start-forwarding-the-mail experience. The behavior of the media doesn't surprise me in the slightest, but up until now I thought the Bad Astronomy guy was using that name in jest. Thanks for the update. On 6/16/09 12:47 PM, "JoshuaTreeMuseum" wrote: > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/0667086000.jpg?t=1245180536 > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E9500000 > 5DC-83.jpg? > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/SNN1235HH-380_823358a.jpg?t=1 > 245180707 > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E9500000 > 5DC-34.jpg? > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/_45916040_cen_meteoriteboy_03 > .jpg?t=1245180773 > > Here are some pics from this story on our young P.T. Barnum which at last > count had over 100 article links on Google News. I haven't read them all, > they pretty much rehash the original story with some added embellishments. > Incredibly, every single story I've read makes the same misquote: > Ansgar Kortem, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: "It's > a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and > scientists." According to the original German article, the actual quote > is: " If it's a real meteorite, it's therefore very valuable to collectors > and scientists". What a difference one word makes! > > It's almost as if not a single one of the journalists bothered to check > the primary source story. Probably not surprising since it was in German and > would require some effort to translate. More work than I'd want to do for > $8 an hour (what I was offered to write for the South Bend , (IN) Tribune.) > > Anyway it's a fun story to follow, and I'm curious to see how the Susan > Boyle of the meteorite world ends up. Probably more like the Octo Mom > narrative. > > So, whaddya think, a carbonaceous chondrite, with black exterior and > interior? I'm pretty sure the filled in pothole in front of the kid is > supposed to be the impact crater. (LOL!) > > In all the stories, mention is given to only one person saying this is a > Newtonian impossibility: Darryl Pitt who is given the role of voice in the > wilderness by MSNBC in one of the earlier stories. > > Bad Astronomy's (Discover) Phil Plait believes that an exploding fireball > increased the velocity of the pea sized stone (hasn't this theory been > debunked on the List?) and that the kid's injury was from shrapnel from the > asphalt crater. And he says this with a straight face! Phil got a little > miffed at me for saying that no real astronomer would believe any part of > this shaggy dog story. > > Phil Whitmer > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From GeoZay at aol.com Tue Jun 16 16:58:45 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:58:45 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? Message-ID: >>Wow. This has gone from a side trip to WTFia to a full-blown start-forwarding-the-mail experience. The behavior of the media doesn't surprise me in the slightest, but up until now I thought the Bad Astronomy guy was using that name in jest.<< At least it's not a political issue. :O) geoZay **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823265x1201398681/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Tue Jun 16 17:06:48 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:06:48 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The story was on the Mike Huckabee radio show this morning. No I do not normally listen to him if that thought crossed anyone's mind. Larry > Wow. This has gone from a side trip to WTFia to a full-blown > start-forwarding-the-mail experience. The behavior of the media doesn't > surprise me in the slightest, but up until now I thought the Bad Astronomy > guy was using that name in jest. Thanks for the update. > > > On 6/16/09 12:47 PM, "JoshuaTreeMuseum" > wrote: > >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/0667086000.jpg?t=1245180536 >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E9500000 >> 5DC-83.jpg? >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/SNN1235HH-380_823358a.jpg?t=1 >> 245180707 >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E9500000 >> 5DC-34.jpg? >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/_45916040_cen_meteoriteboy_03 >> .jpg?t=1245180773 >> >> Here are some pics from this story on our young P.T. Barnum which at >> last >> count had over 100 article links on Google News. I haven't read them >> all, >> they pretty much rehash the original story with some added >> embellishments. >> Incredibly, every single story I've read makes the same misquote: >> Ansgar Kortem, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: >> "It's >> a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and >> scientists." According to the original German article, the actual >> quote >> is: " If it's a real meteorite, it's therefore very valuable to >> collectors >> and scientists". What a difference one word makes! >> >> It's almost as if not a single one of the journalists bothered to >> check >> the primary source story. Probably not surprising since it was in German >> and >> would require some effort to translate. More work than I'd want to do >> for >> $8 an hour (what I was offered to write for the South Bend , (IN) >> Tribune.) >> >> Anyway it's a fun story to follow, and I'm curious to see how the Susan >> Boyle of the meteorite world ends up. Probably more like the Octo Mom >> narrative. >> >> So, whaddya think, a carbonaceous chondrite, with black exterior and >> interior? I'm pretty sure the filled in pothole in front of the kid is >> supposed to be the impact crater. (LOL!) >> >> In all the stories, mention is given to only one person saying this is a >> Newtonian impossibility: Darryl Pitt who is given the role of voice in >> the >> wilderness by MSNBC in one of the earlier stories. >> >> Bad Astronomy's (Discover) Phil Plait believes that an exploding >> fireball >> increased the velocity of the pea sized stone (hasn't this theory been >> debunked on the List?) and that the kid's injury was from shrapnel from >> the >> asphalt crater. And he says this with a straight face! Phil got a >> little >> miffed at me for saying that no real astronomer would believe any part >> of >> this shaggy dog story. >> >> Phil Whitmer >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 17:29:41 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Re: When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie Message-ID: <126476.80895.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> True enough, all that kinetic energy has to go somewhere and heat is how it's dissipated. I'm pretty sure a 500m bolide would still be glowing as it hit the ground but the fireball is hundreds of times bigger than the meteorite and the ground under one such meteorite would likely be ignited BEFORE touchdown by compression shock heating in front of the meteorite. No problems with this but this had car sized objects racing in, on fire that were clearly not at cosmic velocities and they produced explosions on contact that looked like gas stations exploding. It's all too silly to even talk about any longer. It's not like the show was even that good from an entertainment point of view. --- On Tue, 6/16/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > From: cdtucson at cox.net > Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Re: When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie > To: "meteoritelist" > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 7:47 PM > > > > Rob, > > You said > > "And don't get me started on the meteors burning all > the way to the ground " > > I'm no expert but? > > Meteors may not burn all the way to the ground but it > is believed possible that an impact can be hot enough to > melt the ground into Tektite glass, right? So, wouldn't that > generate sufficient heat? to start a fire if it hit a > source of fuel like a wooded area? Carancas hit hard enough > to boil the water in the water well it hit (true fact). Many > witnesses to that. But there was no fuel there to burn so no > actual fire broke out. > > So, I can almost see why they would depict the meteors > as hot and fiery but the real cause of fires being started > is from the heat caused by the impact not the heat of the > actual meteor, right? My 2 cents. > > Carl Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > > > ---- Rob McCafferty > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, I'm in the wrong job. I've spent much > of the last year putting together a mission to Mars game for > our school. You can select individual crew members. For > example, one is from the Kashmir region of India, one of her > languages is a local dialect and her name is a traditional > Kashmiri name, all carefully researched. > > > > > > If I'm capable of this level of attention to > detail then how are the makers of "Impact" capable of > getting something on the air that includes a fallen lunar > meteorite crater that is so magnetic it disrupts a compass > from a distance? I mean, if that's supposed to show some > sort of research into meteorites it pays lipservice only. I > want to go round and bite their ankles. > > > > > > And don't get me started on the meteors burning > all the way to the ground or shooting down meteor fragments > with F-15 fighters. ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!! > > > > > > At least Space 1999, had a the excuse of naievety > to much of it. > > > Anyone remember the scene in 3rd Rock From the > Sun where they were laughing at Star Wars' depiction of > space? "Impact" would have them in apoplexy. > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Sterling K. Webb > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Sterling K. Webb > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] When the Moon > hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie > > > > To: cynapse at charter.net, > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 7:43 PM > > > > Hi, Darren, List, > > > > > > > > The commentator who thinks this > > > > sets a new low for American television > > > > and astronomical science was obviously > > > > fortunate enough to have missed the > > > > series "Space 1999" (to name only one). > > > > > > > > > > > > Sterling K. Webb > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren > Garrison" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:21 AM > > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits > your eye like > > > > a really, really,really big pizza pie > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ??? > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 16 17:38:45 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:38:45 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie References: <595C52F44A684950A8153013554B14BE@ET> Message-ID: <64435418004D47E99581CB5C3A280D53@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, List Everybody had a different theory about Carancas. I thought it was a fast entry of a cylindrical shape. Peter Schultz at Brown thought it was a fast entry of fragments that "entrained" themselves like railroad cars. The Russian theorist whose name flows off the tongue but vanishes from my anglo- phonic neurons thought it was a very slow entry and huge fragments that went plop! We all think we're right and we all disagree (almost) totally. Ain't science grand? But, for Carl's question about the "boiling" of the ground water that filled the crater, I have an answer. First the outer surface of the impactor was hot. The evidence is that it did ablate almost to the impact site. Second, its back half fragmented to powder on impact and the front half dug the crater and tossed dirt out. The impact energy heated the fragments. Third. Carancas had a lot of troilite, FeS, more than 15%. When hot troilite is exposed to water, it dissociates and generates hydrogen sulfide (H2S) which bubbled violently up through the crater water from the hot fragments and made the awful stink that the villagers reported and were ridiculed for. The water cooled everything down in a few minutes and the gas dissipated almost immediately, leaving no evidence of heat or sulfurous fumes, just as the soon-corkscrewed ablation trail that hung above the village was blown away in 10-12 minutes. Heat, yes, but not enough to boil the water. Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:11 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really,really big pizza pie > Hi Carl, Eric: > > Wasn't it our own Sterling K. Webb that determined it was the > aerodynamic shape of the Carancas meteorite that was responsible for > the crater formation? Something about the difference between a > frisbee and the flat bottomed reentry space capsules? > > Phil Whitmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jun 16 17:48:31 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison Meteorite Grains Divulge Earth's Cosmic Roots Message-ID: <200906162148.n5GLmViS024779@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://news.uchicago.edu/news.php?asset_id=1633 Meteorite grains divulge Earth's cosmic roots The University of Chicago June 16, 2009 The interstellar stuff that became incorporated into the planets and life on Earth has younger cosmic roots than theories predict, according to the University of Chicago postdoctoral scholar Philipp Heck and his international team of colleagues. Heck and his colleagues examined 22 interstellar grains from the Murchison meteorite for their analysis. Dying sun-like stars flung the Murchison grains into space more than 4.5 billion years ago, before the birth of the solar system. Scientists know the grains formed outside the solar system because of their exotic composition. "The concentration of neon, produced during cosmic-ray irradiation, allows us to determine the time a grain has spent in interstellar space," Heck said. His team determined that 17 of the grains spent somewhere between three million and 200 million years in interstellar space, far less than the theoretical estimates of approximately 500 million years. Only three grains met interstellar duration expectations (two grains yielded no reliable age). "The knowledge of this lifetime is essential for an improved understanding of interstellar processes, and to better constrain the timing of formation processes of the solar system," Heck said. A period of intense star formation that preceded the sun's birth may have produced large quantities of dust, thus accounting for the timing discrepancy, according to the research team. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Citation:* "Interstellar Residence Times of Presolar Dust Grains from the Murchison Carbonaceous Meteorite," /Astrophysical Journal/, June 20, 2009, Vol. 698, Issue 12, pages 1155-1164 *Authors:* Philipp R. Heck, University of Chicago Department of Geophysical Sciences and Chicago Center for Cosmochemistry Frank Gyngard, Laboratory for Space Sciences and Physics Department, Washington University, St. Louis Ulrich Ott, Max Planck Institute for Chemistry, Mainz, Germany Matthias M.M. Meier, Institute of Isotope Geology and Mineral Resources, Zurich, Switzerland Janana N. ?vila, Research School of Earth Sciences and Planetary Science Institute, Australian National University, Canberra Sachiko Amari, Laboratory for Space Sciences and Physics Department, Washington University, St. Louis Ernest K. Zinner, Laboratory for Space Sciences and Physics Department, Washington University, St. Louis Roy S. Lewis, Enrico Fermi Institute and the Chicago Center for Cosmochemistry, University of Chicago Heinrich Baur, Institute of Isotope Geology and Mineral Resources, Zurich, Switzerland Rainer Wieler, Institute of Isotope Geology and Mineral Resources, Zurich, Switzerland *Funding sources:* National Aeronautics and Space Administration, Swiss National Science Foundation, the Australian National University, and the Brazilian National Council for Scientific From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Tue Jun 16 18:10:22 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:10:22 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim '09 last news, last call In-Reply-To: <9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> References: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com> <9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> Message-ID: <200906162208.n5GM8joh025867@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Dear List, Here are some brief news regarding our current early Summer unanimously expected event "Ensisheim-2009". The best is that you have a look at the web site : http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr/ (don't write "www") end select your preferred language. You will find all details in the corresponding flyer: http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr/site/en/PDF/depliant_2009.pdf as well as other links including the other city web site. Some fresh news: * All tables are rented if I include traditional (last year) attendees. However, so far, 6 tables remain unclaimed so that, from tomorrow Wednesday morning on (Ensi time), I will consider they are free and will allocate them to those who are on my waiting list (2, perhaps 3 persons) and then to the first 3 who will ask for (please send mail). * Remember, the show opens on Friday 9:00 for dealers AND for ("professional") public (6 euro entrance for 3 days, 4 euro for Sat & Sun only). Only registered dealers and accompanying persons (with nominative badges!) have a permanent free entrance. * Dealers are urgently requested to provide me the names of their partners if they wish their badges to be ready in time (roughly max. one person per table - slightly flexible though....). * Friday-party: I have about 80 (plus or minus 5) reservations. There is still room enough for a few more and we are always flexible for the very "late birds". Reservation is seriously recommended and I'll accept them for one more day time. It is also advisable to specify the menu, thus poultry or game (wild animals), though not fully required. * Friday end-afternoon (tight) schedule: - 18:00 closure of the Regency Palace - 18:15 opening remarks (This 10th edition is dedicated to the memory of our regretted friend Richard Norton) and enthroning ceremonies (new brothers: M. Altmann (D), P. Davidson (UK), E. Dransart (F), H. Stehlik (A) and R. Vataj (Kosov?) while Alain Carion will receive the prestigious "golden meteorite award"), general picture of the assembly, followed by the selected 10th anniversary memory group photo of all the old end new "brothers" present. Please DO NOT FORGET your enthroning commemorative PLATE ("porcelaine confr?re-plate" as pertinently recalled by Alex Seidel) (hm! I almost did!). Be there, it is for a report for "Meteorite" (I guess Larry will be pleased to hear that....) - 18:45: probably a short visit and look inside the Palace halls by the officials could be planned. Dealers who wish, can uncover and enlighten their booths. Covered tables will stay untouched. - 19:15 Friendly drink (badly needed after talks in a hot atmosphere - yes, so far, the weather should (?) stay fair, mild to hot (tomorrow 28?C or 82F predicted and normally about the same 2 days later...). In case of (very local) thunder-rain, tents are already set up for everybody. - From 20:00 on: dinner-party and....much, much more ! (here YOU ALL are organizing or improvising....) * Among new dealers: Andrei Barakshin (Ru), while Alain Carion, Fabien Kunz, Sigi Haberer and....our old good Serge Afanasiev (yes, him!) are back! (Serge's come-back is expected to be duly celebrated by some specific "Russian Tea", eh?...) * Main attractions: - 3 dinosaurs around a giant meteorite, not from Argentina but from the French Department of Sarthe. Warms thanks Alain Carion!!!! Yes, kids are allowed to touch it. - 3 very interesting lectures, see flyer. Good opportunity to improve your French, although Peter Davidson will speak (slowly) in English. Expect superb self-understanding slide-shows! - Many, many weird and splendid beauties from the skies will be offered for sale, including most of the recent famous falls...yep, also "those you have in mind"! - Consignment rooms: meteorites offered for "very interesting" prices by lot less than 13 different "shy dealers", either local (organizing committee) or from far, far away (Oscar Turone, the "best italian sput-driver in Argentina"...) - Don't miss some incredible meteorites displayed in the museum as our thematic "Beautiful Meteorites". Let me cite just two of them, "almost French": ??- A 591 g crusted MAROMANDIA (from Madagascar!!!) -probably the only piece of this elusive meteorite existing in a private collection (anonymous) ??- and that 197 g of MAURITIUS (guess where from), the largest known fragment, brought by Peter Davidson from the Edinburgh meteorite museum collection. I stay at everyone's disposal for any kind of other odd or wise comment, suggestion or advice. But hurry up, as I might well not be anymore available on mail from about Thursday afternoon, Ensi time ....(still flexible, so always also try late night hours...) "Ensi '09" looks bright and announces great! June 21: the longest day, the shortest night! A blast! My warmest welcome to all of you, amigos!!!!! Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 18:20:20 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:20:20 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Online Meteoritical Bulletin Changes Message-ID: Hi Listees! Just in case some of you have not noticed, the online Met Bulletin lookup entries now have new photo links to the Encyclopedia of Meteorites - in some cases, there are many more photos than previously. The photo link section is also broken down into two sections - one for photos from the encyclopedia and one for photos uploaded by encyclopedia members. There is a cautionary disclaimer that the member uploaded links may not be reliable. http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php Regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From cdtucson at cox.net Tue Jun 16 19:01:32 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:01:32 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090616190132.MW8TU.417087.imail@fed1rmwml39> In the photo his other hand also has a bandage on his thumb. Was this a meteor shower that hit him? Carl ---- lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu wrote: > The story was on the Mike Huckabee radio show this morning. > > No I do not normally listen to him if that thought crossed anyone's mind. > > Larry > > > Wow. This has gone from a side trip to WTFia to a full-blown > > start-forwarding-the-mail experience. The behavior of the media doesn't > > surprise me in the slightest, but up until now I thought the Bad Astronomy > > guy was using that name in jest. Thanks for the update. > > > > > > On 6/16/09 12:47 PM, "JoshuaTreeMuseum" > > wrote: > > > >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/0667086000.jpg?t=1245180536 > >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E9500000 > >> 5DC-83.jpg? > >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/SNN1235HH-380_823358a.jpg?t=1 > >> 245180707 > >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E9500000 > >> 5DC-34.jpg? > >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/_45916040_cen_meteoriteboy_03 > >> .jpg?t=1245180773 > >> > >> Here are some pics from this story on our young P.T. Barnum which at > >> last > >> count had over 100 article links on Google News. I haven't read them > >> all, > >> they pretty much rehash the original story with some added > >> embellishments. > >> Incredibly, every single story I've read makes the same misquote: > >> Ansgar Kortem, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: > >> "It's > >> a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and > >> scientists." According to the original German article, the actual > >> quote > >> is: " If it's a real meteorite, it's therefore very valuable to > >> collectors > >> and scientists". What a difference one word makes! > >> > >> It's almost as if not a single one of the journalists bothered to > >> check > >> the primary source story. Probably not surprising since it was in German > >> and > >> would require some effort to translate. More work than I'd want to do > >> for > >> $8 an hour (what I was offered to write for the South Bend , (IN) > >> Tribune.) > >> > >> Anyway it's a fun story to follow, and I'm curious to see how the Susan > >> Boyle of the meteorite world ends up. Probably more like the Octo Mom > >> narrative. > >> > >> So, whaddya think, a carbonaceous chondrite, with black exterior and > >> interior? I'm pretty sure the filled in pothole in front of the kid is > >> supposed to be the impact crater. (LOL!) > >> > >> In all the stories, mention is given to only one person saying this is a > >> Newtonian impossibility: Darryl Pitt who is given the role of voice in > >> the > >> wilderness by MSNBC in one of the earlier stories. > >> > >> Bad Astronomy's (Discover) Phil Plait believes that an exploding > >> fireball > >> increased the velocity of the pea sized stone (hasn't this theory been > >> debunked on the List?) and that the kid's injury was from shrapnel from > >> the > >> asphalt crater. And he says this with a straight face! Phil got a > >> little > >> miffed at me for saying that no real astronomer would believe any part > >> of > >> this shaggy dog story. > >> > >> Phil Whitmer > >> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From riffraff at timewarp.de Tue Jun 16 19:04:38 2009 From: riffraff at timewarp.de (Norbert Classen) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 01:04:38 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Martian, Lunar, Vestan & Ensisheim Message-ID: <96B0ACD0E57A430B826C1827BD47DDE4@lunatic> Dear List Members, I rarely sold anything during the last two years, but in anticipation of the upcoming Ensisheim show, and also in order to raise some additional funds for Ensisheim and Ste. Marie I thought I might have a small pre-Ensisheim sale. This sale includes four small but exceptional samples: a rare small Martian individual, a most KREEPy lunar sample, a weird piece of Vesta, and - last but not least - a genuine slice of the Thunderstone of Ensisheim with a fantastic surface to weight ratio. Here you go: Dar al Gani 1037, olivine-orthopyroxene-phyric shergottite (Martian) TKW: 4.01kg, Libya 1999 Specimen for sale: a 1.886g individual (~20x12x5mm) Price: 750 US$ (~400 $/g) Pictures: http://www.meteoris.de/special/DaG1037-1.886g.jpg http://www.meteoris.de/special/DaG1037-1.886r.jpg This is one of the smallest complete stones from the Dar al Gani strewnfield, offered at a great price way below market value. Compare the prices on the web, and consider the premium of a small complete stone. Dhofar 1442, KREEP-rich regolith breccia (lunar) TKW: ~125g, Oman 2005 Specimen for sale: a 0.680g partslice (~20x10x1.2mm) Price: 680 US$ (1000 $/g) Pictures: http://www.meteoris.de/special/Dho1442-0.68g.jpg http://www.meteoris.de/special/Dho1442-0.68r.jpg Additional info on Dhofar 1442 (at Randy Korotev's site): http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/dhofar1442.htm This lunar is even more Thorium-rich than the regolith portion of SaU 169, and contains 0.72 weight percent potassium (K) oxide, making it an exceptionally KREEPy sample that most probably originates from the lunar nearside, i.e. from the Procellarum region that was also the target of the Apollo missions. So you won't get much nearer to the stuff locked away with NASA, especially since SaU 169 is also unavailable to private collectors. Considering the low TKW, and zero availability (this stuff is longsince sold out with the finders) I believe this to be an ecxeptional offer. NWA 4890 (provisional), unbrecciated eucrite TKW: 76g, Morocco 2006 Specimen for sale: a 0.98g partslice (~20x9x2mm) Price: 60 US$ (~60 $/g) Pictures: http://www.meteoris.de/special/NWA4890-0.98g.jpg http://www.meteoris.de/special/NWA4890-0.98r.jpg I originally purchased a larger slice of this unusual unbrecciated eucrite from Chladni's Heirs who are longsince sold out of this material nicknamed "Digoult" because it was first considered to be another individual of the Agoult eucrite - until it was cut and revealed a typical Agoult-like sugary and fine-grained lithology, and a second, distinct, and more coarse-grained lithology. Unfortunatelly, this partslice broke off of my sample along a natural crack, and so it's now up for sale at about the same price I once paid for it. And I believe it's worth every penny. Ensisheim, LL6 breccia TKW: 127kg, fell Nov. 7, 1492 Specimen for sale: 0.358g partslice (~17x10x1mm) Price: 100 US$ (~300 $/g) Pictures: http://www.meteoris.de/special/Ensisheim-0.358g.jpg http://www.meteoris.de/special/Ensisheim-0.358r.jpg I guess I don't need to introduce this one. This marvellous this slice comes with a signed CoA from a well-known French meteorite dealer, and has a fabulous surface to weight ratio. 1500 US$ for all four specimens. I'm also accepting offers during the next 48 hours, but I expect everything to be sold out much faster. First come, first served. Immediate payment via PayPal required (but please don't send funds until you received a sale confirmation). Alternatively, I accept immediate bank wire transfer from German residents, or cash (and delivery) at the Ensisheim show. Registered shipping is free (airmail, worldwide). Offers are valid for 48 hours - what isn't sold will accompany me to Ensisheim. Let's rock, and hope to see you in Ensisheim, and/or Ste. Marie, soon. All the best, Norbert Classen IMCA #7606 From erikfwebb at msn.com Tue Jun 16 20:06:31 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:06:31 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Franconia Victory Message-ID: I met up with Nate at Franconia Thursday morning for a few days of hunting. He showed me his 100+ gram L chondrite he found on the southside and it really blew me away! What a large L and it is just gorgeous. Here is a picture of it: http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=a6.jpg We hunted the southside for two days looking for large Franconia's, Buck Mountain's, and small Palo Verde and Buck Mountain L's. We didn't find anything but it was easy hunting. My Dad drove up and hunted with us saturday and sunday on the north side and we managed to find an unhunted patch and pulled out some very nice finds. Here are the finds from our little patch: http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=cIMG_2654.jpg Here are our totals http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=EriksTotal.jpg Erik's 248 grams (127g, 38.8g, 13.5g, 12.4g, 3.1g & 2.4g) http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=DadsTotal.jpg Ben's 383.5 grams (191.4g, 156.9g, 10.2g, 25g) Here are some cool pictures I snapped on the trip with my new Canon XSI. The 14 bit processor in it really takes in good color and gradiation =] http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=cIMG_2533.jpg artsy desert pavement picture http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=cIMG_2561.jpg Nate fisheyed haha http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=cIMG_2580.jpg Awesome Sunset! 3 second exposure. http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=cIMG_2626.jpg Moon Rise with my Fisheye! 10 second exposure. [Erik] From csaconn at triad.rr.com Tue Jun 16 21:13:19 2009 From: csaconn at triad.rr.com (csaconn at triad.rr.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:13:19 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <431A02591E1248708266E5A9BA1F00A9@ET> Message-ID: <20090617011319.HMEER.167134.root@hrndva-web26-z01> In several of the photos it appears that the meteorite also removed most of this poor boy's fingers. What a horrible tragedy :( ---- JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/0667086000.jpg?t=1245180536 > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E95000005DC-83.jpg? > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/SNN1235HH-380_823358a.jpg?t=1245180707 > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E95000005DC-34.jpg? > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/_45916040_cen_meteoriteboy_03.jpg?t=1245180773 > > Here are some pics from this story on our young P.T. Barnum which at last > count had over 100 article links on Google News. I haven't read them all, > they pretty much rehash the original story with some added embellishments. > Incredibly, every single story I've read makes the same misquote: > Ansgar Kortem, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: "It's > a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and > scientists." According to the original German article, the actual quote > is: " If it's a real meteorite, it's therefore very valuable to collectors > and scientists". What a difference one word makes! > > It's almost as if not a single one of the journalists bothered to check > the primary source story. Probably not surprising since it was in German and > would require some effort to translate. More work than I'd want to do for > $8 an hour (what I was offered to write for the South Bend , (IN) Tribune.) > > Anyway it's a fun story to follow, and I'm curious to see how the Susan > Boyle of the meteorite world ends up. Probably more like the Octo Mom > narrative. > > So, whaddya think, a carbonaceous chondrite, with black exterior and > interior? I'm pretty sure the filled in pothole in front of the kid is > supposed to be the impact crater. (LOL!) > > In all the stories, mention is given to only one person saying this is a > Newtonian impossibility: Darryl Pitt who is given the role of voice in the > wilderness by MSNBC in one of the earlier stories. > > Bad Astronomy's (Discover) Phil Plait believes that an exploding fireball > increased the velocity of the pea sized stone (hasn't this theory been > debunked on the List?) and that the kid's injury was from shrapnel from the > asphalt crater. And he says this with a straight face! Phil got a little > miffed at me for saying that no real astronomer would believe any part of > this shaggy dog story. > > Phil Whitmer > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 21:20:35 2009 From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:20:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite Message-ID: <747372.43415.qm@web43402.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Listees, Hello all, I found 23 of these stones, I think might be meteorites. I was wondering if anyone have seen any known meteorites that resemble these stones. They has quite a bit of metal in them and lots of inclusions. I have looked at many meteorite images looking for a match and have not found one that matches it 100%. I have found just over 1.9kg of it total. I sent a few sample to Al Mitterling and he said it looks like a good candidate, but needs more testing. I was just wondering what you all think of them. When I hear back from him I will let everyone here know if it is or it is just a wrong. I have been searching/hunting for over 3 years and these are the best finds I have made to date, keeping my fingers crossed, but not counting on it, I know how hard it is to make a cold find, especially here in Northern Illinois.. Here is a link to see some of them sliced and polished: http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?num=1243030765/18#18 Thanks, Joe Kerchner From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 22:04:56 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:04:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite Message-ID: <456026.87355.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Joe, Interesting for sure. It looks like much like ore. I didn't catch if it was magnetically attractive. However that is the reason we have anomalous achondirtes to search through. Like you offered please keep us informed. Good Luck! Elton > Here is a link to see some of them sliced and polished: > > http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?num=1243030765/18#18 > > Thanks, > Joe Kerchner From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 22:26:17 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Re: Hot Cold again was When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie Message-ID: <91711.30309.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Any "heat" hot enough to start fires that would be related to meteorites would have to be coming from a very large meteorite hitting the ground is from molecular bonds being rent in twain not from latent heat within the meteoroid which in stone meteorites with low heat transmisivity could chill your beer. Irons are better at conducting and storing heat so they might be a little more than just warm to the touch. Ablation studies have shown that the heat of ablation doesn't penetrate more than 5mm. And several meteorites formed a rind of frost shortly after landing. One of the Portales Valley stones was found melted to a plastic tarp and warm/hot arrival was argued. But anyone in Texas can relate to the temperature of a black body toasted up to cooking temperatures just by solar loading alone. I think one can get second degree burns between 140 and 160? F but something else would have to be involved to set your pants on fire. So in absence of good data I have to remain in the lukewarm to dang cold corner of the hot cold debate. Elton From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 22:39:48 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie Message-ID: <767941.47682.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> And I chimed in to note the extreme altitude removed much of the aero-breaking trek through the atmosphere which other meteoroids usually experience. Elton --- On Tue, 6/16/09, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: > Hi Carl, Eric: > > Wasn't it our own Sterling K. Webb that determined it was > the aerodynamic shape of the Carancas meteorite that was > responsible for the crater formation?? Something about > the difference between a frisbee and the flat bottomed > reentry space capsules? > > Phil Whitmer From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 23:45:24 2009 From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite In-Reply-To: <20090616220005.AUDCK.416622.imail@fed1rmwml45> References: <20090616220005.AUDCK.416622.imail@fed1rmwml45> Message-ID: <566567.84945.qm@web43416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The metal reflects just like in chondrites. I just have trouble getting it to reflect and show the matrix at the same time so I manipulate the light so that I can get pictures of the metal and pics of the matris/inclusions. Thanks, Joe K ----- Original Message ---- From: "cdtucson at cox.net" To: Joe Kerchner Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:00:05 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite Joe, I Hope they are meteorites but it looks like the metal is shiny when rock is held in a certain position but then when turned the reflection disappears. That is a tell for magnetite not metal. Normally metal reflects light at multiple angles. I hope it is metal. good luck. Carl ---- Joe Kerchner wrote: > > Listees, > Hello all, I found 23 of these stones, I think might be meteorites. I was wondering if anyone have seen any known > meteorites that resemble these stones. They has quite a bit of metal in them > and lots of inclusions. I have looked at many meteorite images looking > for a match and have not found one that matches it 100%. I have found > just over 1.9kg of it total. I sent a few sample to Al Mitterling and > he said it looks like a good candidate, but needs more testing. I was > just wondering what you all think of them. When I hear back from him I will let everyone here know if it is or it is just a wrong. > I have been searching/hunting for over 3 years and these are the best finds I have made to date, keeping my fingers crossed, but not counting on it, I know how hard it is to make a cold find, especially here in Northern Illinois.. > > Here is a link to see some of them sliced and polished: > > http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?num=1243030765/18#18 > > Thanks, > Joe Kerchner > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jun 17 01:35:09 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:35:09 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie In-Reply-To: <361315.80481.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <361315.80481.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200h35dcbn38dj9lj5dfs179tbkn64o5hi@4ax.com> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:53:26 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >If I'm capable of this level of attention to detail >then how are the makers of "Impact" capable of >getting something on the air that includes a fallen >lunar meteorite crater that is so magnetic it disrupts >a compass from a distance? I mean, if that's supposed >to show some sort of research into meteorites it pays >lipservice only. I want to go round and bite their ankles. Here's another winner-- a near-future journey to a star 10 light years away that will take 10 years from Earth's perspective and 10 years from the crew's perspective. http://www.aintitcool.com/node/41429 From almitt at kconline.com Wed Jun 17 09:11:28 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:11:28 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite In-Reply-To: <566567.84945.qm@web43416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <20090616220005.AUDCK.416622.imail@fed1rmwml45> <566567.84945.qm@web43416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0992577674B247C8B50C7A5A37D71E63@StarmanPC> Hi Joe and all, I'm not too sure though if these specimens contain metalic metal in them. The inclusions are surounded by a silvery material which may be something else. Give this a little more time and I'll try to have an answer for you. Best! --AL Mitterling From bobadebt at ec.rr.com Wed Jun 17 11:24:29 2009 From: bobadebt at ec.rr.com (David Deyarmin) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:24:29 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] It's been a While Message-ID: Hello everyone. A heavy work schedule and a kitchen remodel has unfortunately kept me away from the hobby for a few months. There is no way I can go back and read everything since February but if you know of any key subjects that are must read please email me at bobadebt at ec.rr.com with the title and month. I would really appreciate it. I also wanted to remind everyone that I'm always look for new material to make into a spheres for my collection. I really need some Sikhote-Alin and would be willing to offer a heavy discount on my processing services to obtain this material. So if you have a big ugly SA you want cut up send me an email :) If you want to check out my collection click this http://home.roadrunner.com/~bobadebt/ Currently I am processing the following materis 1. Some slices and end cuts for Ghubara for Serge 2. About 70 grams of small left over pieces of Pallasovka for Serge 3. Some small whole specimens of Uruacu for Don. I should have something to offer by this weekend but if your looking for any of these materials send me an email and let me know what you want ( huge slice, nice small end cut, uncleaned whole specimen, etc,) Thanks and hopefully I will have a little time for my hobbies :) PS - If you like kitchen remodels you can see the progress of ours by clicking this http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/House/Kitchen/?albumview=slideshow From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com Wed Jun 17 11:42:04 2009 From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:42:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite In-Reply-To: <659117.42758.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <659117.42758.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <176698.25375.qm@web43412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> yes, it sticks really strongly to a magnet. Best, Joe K ----- Original Message ---- From: Mr EMan To: Joe Kerchner Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:35:22 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite Does it pass the magnet test? Elton --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Joe Kerchner wrote: > From: Joe Kerchner > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite > To: cdtucson at cox.net > Cc: "meteorite list" > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 11:45 PM > > The metal reflects just like in chondrites. I just have > trouble getting it to reflect and show the matrix at the > same time so I manipulate the light so that I can get > pictures of the metal and pics of the matris/inclusions. > Thanks, > Joe K > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "cdtucson at cox.net" > > To: Joe Kerchner > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:00:05 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois > meteorite > > Joe, I Hope they are meteorites but it looks like the metal > is shiny when rock is held in a certain position but then > when turned the reflection disappears. That is a tell for > magnetite not metal. Normally metal reflects light at > multiple angles. I hope it is metal. good luck. Carl > > ---- Joe Kerchner > wrote: > > > > Listees, > > Hello all, I found 23 of these > stones, I think might be meteorites. I was wondering if > anyone have seen any known > > meteorites that resemble these stones. They has quite > a bit of metal in them > > and lots of inclusions. I have looked at many > meteorite images looking > > for a match and have not found one that matches it > 100%. I have found > > just over 1.9kg of it total. I sent a few sample to Al > Mitterling and > > he said it looks like a good candidate, but needs more > testing. I was > > just wondering what you all think of them. When I hear > back from him I will let everyone here know if it is or it > is just a wrong. > > I have been searching/hunting > for over 3 years and these are the best finds I have made to > date, keeping my fingers crossed, but not counting on it, I > know how hard it is to make a cold find, especially here in > Northern Illinois.. > > > > Here is a link to see some of them sliced and > polished: > > > > http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?num=1243030765/18#18 > > > > Thanks, > > Joe Kerchner > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com Wed Jun 17 11:44:48 2009 From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite In-Reply-To: <20090617111719.DJH7J.19448.imail@fed1rmwml41> References: <20090617111719.DJH7J.19448.imail@fed1rmwml41> Message-ID: <515852.18152.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I tried the allertest on a few known chondrites and they did not show positive, maybe the allertest I have is bunk. I tried it on a few H chondrites and it not once tested positive. I have had it for a long time, maybe it is too old, I'm not sure, but it didnt work. I'll have to order some more and try it again.. Best, Joe K ----- Original Message ---- From: "cdtucson at cox.net" To: Joe Kerchner Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:17:19 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite Joe, If you read about allertest on Randy's site you will see that it is a very sensitive test and will detect even trace amounts of nickel. I have had the same results. Fe Ni will test positive evey time. Having said that , there is magnetite on Mars right? Good luck. Carl ---- Joe Kerchner wrote: > > I'm quite sure it is not magnetite, I am almost positive it is Fe Ni, It tested pos with allertest, but not always, It has tested pos a couple times and nothing sometimes on the same sample, but now Im out of allertest so I can not confirm it forsure. Al Metterling is running a few tests on it and sending a couple sample to a friend of his for further testing. > Thanks, > Joe K > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "cdtucson at cox.net" > To: Joe Kerchner > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:54:56 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite > > Joe, I use a mineral microscope and a straight pin and I press the pin into the metal. If it is metal it may be malleable. If it is magnetite it is brittle and will not easily scratch. This is just a feel good test but if it is malleable that is a good sign. I hope it is. I am very excited for you. This kind of thing inspires all of us. Carl > > ---- Joe Kerchner wrote: > > > > The metal reflects just like in chondrites. I just have trouble getting it to reflect and show the matrix at the same time so I manipulate the light so that I can get pictures of the metal and pics of the matris/inclusions. > > Thanks, > > Joe K > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: "cdtucson at cox.net" > > To: Joe Kerchner > > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:00:05 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite > > > > Joe, I Hope they are meteorites but it looks like the metal is shiny when rock is held in a certain position but then when turned the reflection disappears. That is a tell for magnetite not metal. Normally metal reflects light at multiple angles. I hope it is metal. good luck. Carl > > > > ---- Joe Kerchner wrote: > > > > > > Listees, > > > Hello all, I found 23 of these stones, I think might be meteorites. I was wondering if anyone have seen any known > > > meteorites that resemble these stones. They has quite a bit of metal in them > > > and lots of inclusions. I have looked at many meteorite images looking > > > for a match and have not found one that matches it 100%. I have found > > > just over 1.9kg of it total. I sent a few sample to Al Mitterling and > > > he said it looks like a good candidate, but needs more testing. I was > > > just wondering what you all think of them. When I hear back from him I will let everyone here know if it is or it is just a wrong. > > > I have been searching/hunting for over 3 years and these are the best finds I have made to date, keeping my fingers crossed, but not counting on it, I know how hard it is to make a cold find, especially here in Northern Illinois.. > > > > > > Here is a link to see some of them sliced and polished: > > > > > > http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?num=1243030765/18#18 > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Joe Kerchner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From cdtucson at cox.net Wed Jun 17 13:42:21 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:42:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry Message-ID: <20090617134221.DWTXL.22442.imail@fed1rmwml41> Enjoy. Well, it's been 48 hours since I landed the 747 with the shuttle Atlantis on top and I am still buzzing from the experience. I have to say that my whole mind, body and soul went into the professional mode just before engine start in Mississippi, and stayed there, where it all needed to be, until well after the flight...in fact, I am not sure if it is all back to normal as I type this email. The experience was surreal. > >> > > >> > ?Seeing that "thing" on top of an already overly huge aircraft boggles my mind. The whole mission from takeoff to engine shutdown was unlike anything I had ever done. It was like a dream...someone else's dream. > >> > > >> > ?We took off from Columbus AFB on their 12,000 foot runway, of which I used 11,999 1/2 feet to get the wheels off the ground. We were at 3,500 feet left to go of the runway, throttles full power, nose wheels still hugging the ground, copilot calling out decision speeds, the weight of Atlantis now screaming through my fingers clinched tightly on the controls, tires heating up to their near maximum temperature from the speed and the weight, and not yet at rotation speed, the speed at which I would be pulling on the controls to get the nose to rise. I just could not wait, and I mean I COULD NOT WAIT, and started pulling early. If I had waited until rotation speed, we would not have rotated enough to get airborne by the end of the runway. So I pulled on the controls early and started our rotation to the takeoff attitude. The wheels finally lifted off as we passed over the stripe marking the end of the runway and my next hurdle (physically) was a line of trees 1,000 feet off the departure end of Runway 16. All I knew was we were flying and so I directed the gear to be retracted and the flaps to be moved from Flaps 20 to Flaps 10 as I pulled even harder on the controls. I must say, those trees were beginning to look a lot like those brushes in the drive through car washes so I pulled even harder yet! I think I saw a bird just fold its wings and fall out of a tree as if to say "Oh just take me". Okay, we cleared the trees, duh, but it was way too close for my laundry. As we started to actually climb, at only 100 feet per minute, I smelled something that reminded me of touring the Heineken Brewery in Europe...I said "is that a skunk I smell?" and the veterans of shuttle carrying looked at me and smiled and said "Tires"! > >> > > >> > ?I said "TIRES??? OURS???" They smiled and shook their heads as if to call their Captain an amateur...okay, at that point I was. The tires were so hot you could smell them in the cockpit. My mind could not get over, from this point on, that this was something I had never experienced. > >> > > >> > ?Where's your mom when you REALLY need her? > >> > > >> > ?The flight down to Florida was an eternity. We cruised at 250 knots indicated, giving us about 315 knots of ground speed at 15,000'. The miles didn't click by like I am use to them clicking by in a fighter jet at MACH .94. We were burning fuel at a rate of 40,000 pounds per hour or 130 pounds per mile, or one gallon every length of the fuselage. The vibration in the cockpit was mild, compared to down below and to the rear of the fuselage where it reminded me of that football game I had as a child where you turned it on and the players vibrated around the board. I felt like if I had plastic clips on my boots I could have vibrated to any spot in the fuselage I wanted to go without moving my legs...and the noise was deafening. The 747 flies with its nose 5 degrees up in the air to stay level, and when you bank, it feels like the shuttle is trying to say "hey, let's roll completely over on our back"..not a good thing I kept telling myself. SO I limited my bank? angle to 15 degrees and even though a 180 degree course change took a full zip code to complete, it was the safe way to turn this monster. > >> > > >> > Airliners and even a flight of two F-16s deviated from their flight plans to catch a glimpse of us along the way. We dodged what was in reality very few clouds and storms, despite what everyone thought, and arrived in Florida with 51,000 pounds of fuel too much to land with. We can't land heavier than 600,000 pounds total weight and so we had to do something with that fuel. I had an idea...let's fly low and slow and show this beast off to all the taxpayers in Florida lucky enough to be outside on that Tuesday afternoon. So at Ormond Beach we let down to 1,000 feet above the ground/water and flew just east of the beach out over the water. Then, once we reached the NASA airspace of the Kennedy Space Center, we cut over to the Banana/Indian Rivers and flew down the middle of them to show the people of Titusville, Port St.Johns and Melbourne just what a 747 with a shuttle on it looked like. We stayed at 1,000 feet and since we were dragging our flaps at "Flaps 5", our speed was down to around 190 to 210 knots. We could see traffic stopping in the middle of roads to take a look. We heard later that a Little League Baseball game stop to look and everyone cheered as we became their 7th inning stretch. Oh say can you see... > >> > > >> > ?After reaching Vero Beach, we turned north to follow the coast line back up to the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF). There was not one person laying on the beach...they were all standing and waving! "What a sight" I thought...and figured they were thinking the same thing. All this time I was bugging the engineers, all three of them, to re-compute our fuel and tell me when it was time to land. They kept saying "Not yet Triple, keep showing this thing off" which was not a bad thing to be doing. However, all this time the thought that the landing, the muscling of this 600,000 pound beast, was getting closer and closer to my reality. I was pumped up! We got back to the SLF and were still 10,000 pounds too heavy to land so I said I was going to do a low approach over the SLF going the opposite direction of landing traffic that day. So at 300 feet, we flew down the runway, rocking our wings like a whale rolling on its side to say "hello" to the people looking on! One turn out of traffic and back to the runway to land...still 3,000 pounds over gross weight limit. But the engineers agreed that if the landing were smooth, there would be no problem. "Oh thanks guys, a little extra pressure is just what I needed!" So we landed at 603,000 pounds and very smoothly if I have to say so myself. The landing was so totally controlled and on speed, that it was fun. There were a few surprises that I dealt with, like the 747 falls like a rock with the orbiter on it if you pull the throttles off at the "normal" point in a > >> > > >> > landing and secondly, if you thought you could hold the nose off the ground after the mains touch down, think again...IT IS COMING DOWN!!! > >> > > >> > ?So I "flew it down" to the ground and saved what I have seen in videos of a nose slap after landing. Bob's video supports this! :8-) > >> > > >> > ?Then I turned on my phone after coming to a full stop only to find 50 bazillion emails and phone messages from all of you who were so super to be watching and cheering us on! What a treat, I can't thank y'all enough. For those who watched, you wondered why we sat there so long. > >> > > >> > ?Well, the shuttle had very hazardous chemicals on board and we had to be "sniffed" to determine if any had leaked or were leaking. They checked for Monomethylhydrazine (N2H4 for Charlie Hudson) and nitrogen tetroxide (N2O4). Even though we were "clean", it took way too long for them to tow us in to the mate-demate area. Sorry for those who stuck it out and even waited until we exited the jet. > >> > > >> > ? I am sure I will wake up in the middle of the night here soon, screaming and standing straight up dripping wet with sweat from the realization of what had happened. It was a thrill of a lifetime. Again I want to thank everyone for your interest and support. It felt good to bring Atlantis home in one piece after she had worked so hard getting to the Hubble Space Telescope and back. > >> > > >> > ?Triple Nickel > >> > > >> > ?NASA Pilot Carl Esparza IMCA 5828 ____________________________________________________________ > Digital Photography - Click Now. > From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Wed Jun 17 13:42:34 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:42:34 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 17, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_17_2009.html __________________________ **************Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222865043x1201494942/aol?redir=http:%2F%2F ad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215692145%3B38015538%3Bh) From cdtucson at cox.net Wed Jun 17 15:20:40 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:20:40 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry Message-ID: <20090617152040.EGZ1P.426082.imail@fed1rmwml34> Simon, List, Thank you for that but many on this list know me and unfortunately I was not the author or pilot. This was a forward intended only to share with the List. Sorry for any confusion. Thanks Carl ---- Simon wrote: > HI Carl : I am an organic farmer in Ontario Canada, I really enjoyed > your account of bringing the shuttle back on the 747, I guess we're all > good at whatever we do but I can just imagine the stress involved in your > mission. You must be well paid to be able to do an assignment like that. > Thanks for giving us an inside feel of your job . > > Regards > Simon > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > cdtucson at cox.net > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:42 PM > To: meteoritelist > Subject: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry > > Enjoy. > > Well, it's been 48 hours since I landed the 747 with the shuttle Atlantis on > top and I am still buzzing from the experience. I have to say that my whole > mind, body and soul went into the professional mode just before engine start > in Mississippi, and stayed there, where it all needed to be, until well > after the flight...in fact, I am not sure if it is all back to normal as I > type this email. The experience was surreal. > > >> > > > >> > ?Seeing that "thing" on top of an already overly huge aircraft > boggles my mind. The whole mission from takeoff to engine shutdown was > unlike anything I had ever done. It was like a dream...someone else's dream. > > > >> > > > >> > ?We took off from Columbus AFB on their 12,000 foot runway, of which > I used 11,999 1/2 feet to get the wheels off the ground. We were at 3,500 > feet left to go of the runway, throttles full power, nose wheels still > hugging the ground, copilot calling out decision speeds, the weight of > Atlantis now screaming through my fingers clinched tightly on the controls, > tires heating up to their near maximum temperature from the speed and the > weight, and not yet at rotation speed, the speed at which I would be pulling > on the controls to get the nose to rise. I just could not wait, and I mean I > COULD NOT WAIT, and started pulling early. If I had waited until rotation > speed, we would not have rotated enough to get airborne by the end of the > runway. So I pulled on the controls early and started our rotation to the > takeoff attitude. The wheels finally lifted off as we passed over the stripe > marking the end of the runway and my next hurdle (physically) was a line of > trees 1,000 feet of > f the departure end of Runway 16. All I knew was we were flying and so I > directed the gear to be retracted and the flaps to be moved from Flaps 20 to > Flaps 10 as I pulled even harder on the controls. I must say, those trees > were beginning to look a lot like those brushes in the drive through car > washes so I pulled even harder yet! I think I saw a bird just fold its wings > and fall out of a tree as if to say "Oh just take me". Okay, we cleared the > trees, duh, but it was way too close for my laundry. As we started to > actually climb, at only 100 feet per minute, I smelled something that > reminded me of touring the Heineken Brewery in Europe...I said "is that a > skunk I smell?" and the veterans of shuttle carrying looked at me and smiled > and said "Tires"! > > >> > > > >> > ?I said "TIRES??? OURS???" They smiled and shook their heads as if to > call their Captain an amateur...okay, at that point I was. The tires were so > hot you could smell them in the cockpit. My mind could not get over, from > this point on, that this was something I had never experienced. > > >> > > > >> > ?Where's your mom when you REALLY need her? > > >> > > > >> > ?The flight down to Florida was an eternity. We cruised at 250 knots > indicated, giving us about 315 knots of ground speed at 15,000'. The miles > didn't click by like I am use to them clicking by in a fighter jet at MACH > .94. We were burning fuel at a rate of 40,000 pounds per hour or 130 pounds > per mile, or one gallon every length of the fuselage. The vibration in the > cockpit was mild, compared to down below and to the rear of the fuselage > where it reminded me of that football game I had as a child where you turned > it on and the players vibrated around the board. I felt like if I had > plastic clips on my boots I could have vibrated to any spot in the fuselage > I wanted to go without moving my legs...and the noise was deafening. The 747 > flies with its nose 5 degrees up in the air to stay level, and when you > bank, it feels like the shuttle is trying to say "hey, let's roll completely > over on our back"..not a good thing I kept telling myself. SO I limited my > bank? angle to 1 > 5 degrees and even though a 180 degree course change took a full zip code > to complete, it was the safe way to turn this monster. > > >> > > > >> > Airliners and even a flight of two F-16s deviated from their flight > plans to catch a glimpse of us along the way. We dodged what was in reality > very few clouds and storms, despite what everyone thought, and arrived in > Florida with 51,000 pounds of fuel too much to land with. We can't land > heavier than 600,000 pounds total weight and so we had to do something with > that fuel. I had an idea...let's fly low and slow and show this beast off to > all the taxpayers in Florida lucky enough to be outside on that Tuesday > afternoon. So at Ormond Beach we let down to 1,000 feet above the > ground/water and flew just east of the beach out over the water. Then, once > we reached the NASA airspace of the Kennedy Space Center, we cut over to the > Banana/Indian Rivers and flew down the middle of them to show the people of > Titusville, Port St.Johns and Melbourne just what a 747 with a shuttle on it > looked like. We stayed at 1,000 feet and since we were dragging our flaps at > "Flaps 5", our spee > d was down to around 190 to 210 knots. We could see traffic stopping in the > middle of roads to take a look. We heard later that a Little League Baseball > game stop to look and everyone cheered as we became their 7th inning > stretch. Oh say can you see... > > >> > > > >> > ?After reaching Vero Beach, we turned north to follow the coast line > back up to the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF). There was not one person > laying on the beach...they were all standing and waving! "What a sight" I > thought...and figured they were thinking the same thing. All this time I was > bugging the engineers, all three of them, to re-compute our fuel and tell me > when it was time to land. They kept saying "Not yet Triple, keep showing > this thing off" which was not a bad thing to be doing. However, all this > time the thought that the landing, the muscling of this 600,000 pound beast, > was getting closer and closer to my reality. I was pumped up! We got back to > the SLF and were still 10,000 pounds too heavy to land so I said I was going > to do a low approach over the SLF going the opposite direction of landing > traffic that day. So at 300 feet, we flew down the runway, rocking our wings > like a whale rolling on its side to say "hello" to the people looking on! > One turn out > of traffic and back to the runway to land...still 3,000 pounds over gross > weight limit. But the engineers agreed that if the landing were smooth, > there would be no problem. "Oh thanks guys, a little extra pressure is just > what I needed!" So we landed at 603,000 pounds and very smoothly if I have > to say so myself. The landing was so totally controlled and on speed, that > it was fun. There were a few surprises that I dealt with, like the 747 falls > like a rock with the orbiter on it if you pull the throttles off at the > "normal" point in a > > >> > > > >> > landing and secondly, if you thought you could hold the nose off the > ground after the mains touch down, think again...IT IS COMING DOWN!!! > > >> > > > >> > ?So I "flew it down" to the ground and saved what I have seen in > videos of a nose slap after landing. Bob's video supports this! :8-) > > >> > > > >> > ?Then I turned on my phone after coming to a full stop only to find > 50 bazillion emails and phone messages from all of you who were so super to > be watching and cheering us on! What a treat, I can't thank y'all enough. > For those who watched, you wondered why we sat there so long. > > >> > > > >> > ?Well, the shuttle had very hazardous chemicals on board and we had > to be "sniffed" to determine if any had leaked or were leaking. They checked > for Monomethylhydrazine (N2H4 for Charlie Hudson) and nitrogen tetroxide > (N2O4). Even though we were "clean", it took way too long for them to tow us > in to the mate-demate area. Sorry for those who stuck it out and even waited > until we exited the jet. > > >> > > > >> > ? I am sure I will wake up in the middle of the night here soon, > screaming and standing straight up dripping wet with sweat from the > realization of what had happened. It was a thrill of a lifetime. Again I > want to thank everyone for your interest and support. It felt good to bring > Atlantis home in one piece after she had worked so hard getting to the > Hubble Space Telescope and back. > > >> > > > >> > ?Triple Nickel > > >> > > > >> > ?NASA Pilot > > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5828 > ____________________________________________________________ > > Digital Photography - Click Now. > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From almitt at kconline.com Wed Jun 17 16:18:42 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:18:42 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite In-Reply-To: <515852.18152.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <20090617111719.DJH7J.19448.imail@fed1rmwml41> <515852.18152.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <11EEF5AF06CA4224810B9002972A7135@StarmanPC> Hi Joe, It seems there is a shelf live on the allertest people can buy so you about have to wait until you have a number of items needing testing then order the kit one at a time for testing. I also HIGHLY recommend seeing O. Richard Norton's book "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" as he has some household items you can safely use to test suspect specimens. Best! --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Kerchner" To: Cc: "meteorite list" Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite > > I tried the allertest on a few known chondrites and they did not show > positive, maybe the allertest I have is bunk. I tried it on a few H > chondrites and it not once tested positive. I have had it for a long time, > maybe it is too old, I'm not sure, but it didnt work. I'll have to order > some more and try it again.. > Best, > Joe K > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "cdtucson at cox.net" > To: Joe Kerchner > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:17:19 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite > > Joe, > If you read about allertest on Randy's site you will see that it is a very > sensitive test and will detect even trace amounts of nickel. I have had > the same results. Fe Ni will test positive evey time. Having said that , > there is magnetite on Mars right? > Good luck. Carl > ---- Joe Kerchner wrote: >> >> I'm quite sure it is not magnetite, I am almost positive it is Fe Ni, It >> tested pos with allertest, but not always, It has tested pos a couple >> times and nothing sometimes on the same sample, but now Im out of >> allertest so I can not confirm it forsure. Al Metterling is running a few >> tests on it and sending a couple sample to a friend of his for further >> testing. >> Thanks, >> Joe K >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: "cdtucson at cox.net" >> To: Joe Kerchner >> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:54:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite >> >> Joe, I use a mineral microscope and a straight pin and I press the pin >> into the metal. If it is metal it may be malleable. If it is magnetite it >> is brittle and will not easily scratch. This is just a feel good test but >> if it is malleable that is a good sign. I hope it is. I am very excited >> for you. This kind of thing inspires all of us. Carl >> >> ---- Joe Kerchner wrote: >> > >> > The metal reflects just like in chondrites. I just have trouble getting >> > it to reflect and show the matrix at the same time so I manipulate the >> > light so that I can get pictures of the metal and pics of the >> > matris/inclusions. >> > Thanks, >> > Joe K >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ---- >> > From: "cdtucson at cox.net" >> > To: Joe Kerchner >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:00:05 PM >> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite >> > >> > Joe, I Hope they are meteorites but it looks like the metal is shiny >> > when rock is held in a certain position but then when turned the >> > reflection disappears. That is a tell for magnetite not metal. Normally >> > metal reflects light at multiple angles. I hope it is metal. good luck. >> > Carl >> > >> > ---- Joe Kerchner wrote: >> > > >> > > Listees, >> > > Hello all, I found 23 of these stones, I think might be meteorites. >> > > I was wondering if anyone have seen any known >> > > meteorites that resemble these stones. They has quite a bit of metal >> > > in them >> > > and lots of inclusions. I have looked at many meteorite images >> > > looking >> > > for a match and have not found one that matches it 100%. I have found >> > > just over 1.9kg of it total. I sent a few sample to Al Mitterling and >> > > he said it looks like a good candidate, but needs more testing. I was >> > > just wondering what you all think of them. When I hear back from him >> > > I will let everyone here know if it is or it is just a wrong. >> > > I have been searching/hunting for over 3 years and these are the >> > > best finds I have made to date, keeping my fingers crossed, but not >> > > counting on it, I know how hard it is to make a cold find, especially >> > > here in Northern Illinois.. >> > > >> > > Here is a link to see some of them sliced and polished: >> > > >> > > http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?num=1243030765/18#18 >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > Joe Kerchner >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ______________________________________________ >> > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Wed Jun 17 18:15:21 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:15:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Big Troilite Ball Message-ID: <84D2EFB75649429DAF7C271D0AF2AB1D@ET> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/troilite.jpg?t=1245276375 I was doing a photographic survey of iron meteorite surface features when I found this big ball of troilite in a Sikhote-Alin. It's got a slight bronze color. Looks like it almost ablated out. I remember someone from Europe was selling these on eBay awhile back. It measures a little over an inch across. Phil Whitmer From jsignorell at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 18:16:22 2009 From: jsignorell at gmail.com (jsignorell at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:16:22 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Unsub Message-ID: <2087617995-1245277265-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-253740527-@bxe1171.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Please take my email add off ur mail list Jsignorell at gmail.com Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 17 19:01:05 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:01:05 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry References: <20090617152040.EGZ1P.426082.imail@fed1rmwml34> Message-ID: The original NASA e-mail that Carl forwarded to The List can be found here: http://infinite-frontier.blogspot.com/2009/06/nasa-747-pilot-shares-experience.html An article about James Nickel can be found here: http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/article/2002-02/twinkle-twinkle Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Simon" ; "meteoritelist" Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry > Simon, List, > Thank you for that but many on this list know me and unfortunately I > was not the author or pilot. This was a forward intended only to share > with the List. Sorry for any confusion. Thanks Carl > > ---- Simon wrote: >> HI Carl : I am an organic farmer in Ontario Canada, I really >> enjoyed >> your account of bringing the shuttle back on the 747, I guess we're >> all >> good at whatever we do but I can just imagine the stress involved >> in your >> mission. You must be well paid to be able to do an assignment like >> that. >> Thanks for giving us an inside feel of your job . >> >> Regards >> Simon >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of >> cdtucson at cox.net >> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:42 PM >> To: meteoritelist >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry >> >> Enjoy. >> >> Well, it's been 48 hours since I landed the 747 with the shuttle >> Atlantis on >> top and I am still buzzing from the experience. I have to say that my >> whole >> mind, body and soul went into the professional mode just before >> engine start >> in Mississippi, and stayed there, where it all needed to be, until >> well >> after the flight...in fact, I am not sure if it is all back to normal >> as I >> type this email. The experience was surreal. >> > >> > >> > >> > ?Seeing that "thing" on top of an already overly huge aircraft >> boggles my mind. The whole mission from takeoff to engine shutdown >> was >> unlike anything I had ever done. It was like a dream...someone else's >> dream. >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ?We took off from Columbus AFB on their 12,000 foot runway, of >> > >> > which >> I used 11,999 1/2 feet to get the wheels off the ground. We were at >> 3,500 >> feet left to go of the runway, throttles full power, nose wheels >> still >> hugging the ground, copilot calling out decision speeds, the weight >> of >> Atlantis now screaming through my fingers clinched tightly on the >> controls, >> tires heating up to their near maximum temperature from the speed and >> the >> weight, and not yet at rotation speed, the speed at which I would be >> pulling >> on the controls to get the nose to rise. I just could not wait, and I >> mean I >> COULD NOT WAIT, and started pulling early. If I had waited until >> rotation >> speed, we would not have rotated enough to get airborne by the end of >> the >> runway. So I pulled on the controls early and started our rotation to >> the >> takeoff attitude. The wheels finally lifted off as we passed over the >> stripe >> marking the end of the runway and my next hurdle (physically) was a >> line of >> trees 1,000 feet of >> f the departure end of Runway 16. All I knew was we were flying and >> so I >> directed the gear to be retracted and the flaps to be moved from >> Flaps 20 to >> Flaps 10 as I pulled even harder on the controls. I must say, those >> trees >> were beginning to look a lot like those brushes in the drive through >> car >> washes so I pulled even harder yet! I think I saw a bird just fold >> its wings >> and fall out of a tree as if to say "Oh just take me". Okay, we >> cleared the >> trees, duh, but it was way too close for my laundry. As we started to >> actually climb, at only 100 feet per minute, I smelled something that >> reminded me of touring the Heineken Brewery in Europe...I said "is >> that a >> skunk I smell?" and the veterans of shuttle carrying looked at me and >> smiled >> and said "Tires"! >> > >> > >> > >> > ?I said "TIRES??? OURS???" They smiled and shook their heads >> > >> > as if to >> call their Captain an amateur...okay, at that point I was. The tires >> were so >> hot you could smell them in the cockpit. My mind could not get over, >> from >> this point on, that this was something I had never experienced. >> > >> > >> > >> > ?Where's your mom when you REALLY need her? >> > >> > >> > >> > ?The flight down to Florida was an eternity. We cruised at 250 >> > >> > knots >> indicated, giving us about 315 knots of ground speed at 15,000'. The >> miles >> didn't click by like I am use to them clicking by in a fighter jet at >> MACH >> .94. We were burning fuel at a rate of 40,000 pounds per hour or 130 >> pounds >> per mile, or one gallon every length of the fuselage. The vibration >> in the >> cockpit was mild, compared to down below and to the rear of the >> fuselage >> where it reminded me of that football game I had as a child where you >> turned >> it on and the players vibrated around the board. I felt like if I had >> plastic clips on my boots I could have vibrated to any spot in the >> fuselage >> I wanted to go without moving my legs...and the noise was deafening. >> The 747 >> flies with its nose 5 degrees up in the air to stay level, and when >> you >> bank, it feels like the shuttle is trying to say "hey, let's roll >> completely >> over on our back"..not a good thing I kept telling myself. SO I >> limited my >> bank? angle to 1 >> 5 degrees and even though a 180 degree course change took a full zip >> code >> to complete, it was the safe way to turn this monster. >> > >> > >> > >> > Airliners and even a flight of two F-16s deviated from their >> > >> > flight >> plans to catch a glimpse of us along the way. We dodged what was in >> reality >> very few clouds and storms, despite what everyone thought, and >> arrived in >> Florida with 51,000 pounds of fuel too much to land with. We can't >> land >> heavier than 600,000 pounds total weight and so we had to do >> something with >> that fuel. I had an idea...let's fly low and slow and show this beast >> off to >> all the taxpayers in Florida lucky enough to be outside on that >> Tuesday >> afternoon. So at Ormond Beach we let down to 1,000 feet above the >> ground/water and flew just east of the beach out over the water. >> Then, once >> we reached the NASA airspace of the Kennedy Space Center, we cut over >> to the >> Banana/Indian Rivers and flew down the middle of them to show the >> people of >> Titusville, Port St.Johns and Melbourne just what a 747 with a >> shuttle on it >> looked like. We stayed at 1,000 feet and since we were dragging our >> flaps at >> "Flaps 5", our spee >> d was down to around 190 to 210 knots. We could see traffic stopping >> in the >> middle of roads to take a look. We heard later that a Little League >> Baseball >> game stop to look and everyone cheered as we became their 7th inning >> stretch. Oh say can you see... >> > >> > >> > >> > ?After reaching Vero Beach, we turned north to follow the >> > >> > coast line >> back up to the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF). There was not one >> person >> laying on the beach...they were all standing and waving! "What a >> sight" I >> thought...and figured they were thinking the same thing. All this >> time I was >> bugging the engineers, all three of them, to re-compute our fuel and >> tell me >> when it was time to land. They kept saying "Not yet Triple, keep >> showing >> this thing off" which was not a bad thing to be doing. However, all >> this >> time the thought that the landing, the muscling of this 600,000 pound >> beast, >> was getting closer and closer to my reality. I was pumped up! We got >> back to >> the SLF and were still 10,000 pounds too heavy to land so I said I >> was going >> to do a low approach over the SLF going the opposite direction of >> landing >> traffic that day. So at 300 feet, we flew down the runway, rocking >> our wings >> like a whale rolling on its side to say "hello" to the people looking >> on! >> One turn out >> of traffic and back to the runway to land...still 3,000 pounds over >> gross >> weight limit. But the engineers agreed that if the landing were >> smooth, >> there would be no problem. "Oh thanks guys, a little extra pressure >> is just >> what I needed!" So we landed at 603,000 pounds and very smoothly if I >> have >> to say so myself. The landing was so totally controlled and on speed, >> that >> it was fun. There were a few surprises that I dealt with, like the >> 747 falls >> like a rock with the orbiter on it if you pull the throttles off at >> the >> "normal" point in a >> > >> > >> > >> > landing and secondly, if you thought you could hold the nose >> > >> > off the >> ground after the mains touch down, think again...IT IS COMING DOWN!!! >> > >> > >> > >> > ?So I "flew it down" to the ground and saved what I have seen >> > >> > in >> videos of a nose slap after landing. Bob's video supports this! :8-) >> > >> > >> > >> > ?Then I turned on my phone after coming to a full stop only to >> > >> > find >> 50 bazillion emails and phone messages from all of you who were so >> super to >> be watching and cheering us on! What a treat, I can't thank y'all >> enough. >> For those who watched, you wondered why we sat there so long. >> > >> > >> > >> > ?Well, the shuttle had very hazardous chemicals on board and >> > >> > we had >> to be "sniffed" to determine if any had leaked or were leaking. They >> checked >> for Monomethylhydrazine (N2H4 for Charlie Hudson) and nitrogen >> tetroxide >> (N2O4). Even though we were "clean", it took way too long for them to >> tow us >> in to the mate-demate area. Sorry for those who stuck it out and even >> waited >> until we exited the jet. >> > >> > >> > >> > ? I am sure I will wake up in the middle of the night here >> > >> > soon, >> screaming and standing straight up dripping wet with sweat from the >> realization of what had happened. It was a thrill of a lifetime. >> Again I >> want to thank everyone for your interest and support. It felt good to >> bring >> Atlantis home in one piece after she had worked so hard getting to >> the >> Hubble Space Telescope and back. >> > >> > >> > >> > ?Triple Nickel >> > >> > >> > >> > ?NASA Pilot >> >> Carl Esparza >> IMCA 5828 >> ____________________________________________________________ >> > Digital Photography - Click Now. >> > >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From drtanuki at yahoo.com Wed Jun 17 23:18:57 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Photos of Fireball west of Thessaloniki, Greece 12JUN09 Message-ID: <254249.61090.qm@web53110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List, ? Photos and information about the fireball seen west of Thessaloniki, Greece on 12JUN09 at 21:30. The same fireball was also seen over southern Italy and Albania. http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 18 00:13:00 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:13:00 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <20090617011319.HMEER.167134.root@hrndva-web26-z01> References: <431A02591E1248708266E5A9BA1F00A9@ET> <20090617011319.HMEER.167134.root@hrndva-web26-z01> Message-ID: Here's PopSci's take on it: http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-06/meteorite-impact-last-week-did-it-really-happen From fcressy at prodigy.net Thu Jun 18 00:46:37 2009 From: fcressy at prodigy.net (Frank Cressy) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] It's been a While Message-ID: <136799.22560.qm@web80206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello David, Welcome back. There was a interesting meteorite fall in Texas the day after Valentines Day. You might find it interesting. Check out the list archives for late February and March. There should be a couple of threads ;-) Cheers, Frank --- On Wed, 6/17/09, David Deyarmin wrote: From: David Deyarmin Subject: [meteorite-list] It's been a While To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 8:24 AM Hello everyone. A heavy work schedule and a kitchen remodel has unfortunately kept me away from the hobby for a few months. There is no way I can go back and read everything since February but if you know of any key subjects that are must read please email me at bobadebt at ec.rr.com with the title and month. I would really appreciate it. I also wanted to remind everyone that I'm always look for new material to make into a spheres for my collection. I really need some Sikhote-Alin and would be willing to offer a heavy discount on my processing services to obtain this material. So if you have a big ugly SA you want cut up send me an email :) If you want to check out my collection click this http://home.roadrunner.com/~bobadebt/ Currently I am processing the following materis 1. Some slices and end cuts for? Ghubara for Serge 2. About 70 grams of small left over pieces of Pallasovka for Serge 3. Some small whole specimens of Uruacu for Don. I should have something to offer by this weekend but if your looking for any of these materials send me an email and let me know what you want ( huge slice, nice small end cut, uncleaned whole specimen, etc,) Thanks and hopefully I will have a little time for my hobbies :) PS - If you like kitchen remodels you can see the progress of ours by clicking this http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/House/Kitchen/?albumview=slideshow ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 18 01:03:22 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:03:22 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: References: <431A02591E1248708266E5A9BA1F00A9@ET> <20090617011319.HMEER.167134.root@hrndva-web26-z01> Message-ID: Hollywood's portrayal and the general public's urban-myth-perception of meteors and meteorites are actually very helpful for people "in the loop" to quickly dismiss ridiculous claims, such as this kid's. It does save a lot of legwork, eh? Cheers, Pete ---------------------------------------- > From: cynapse at charter.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:13:00 -0500 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? > > Here's PopSci's take on it: > > http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-06/meteorite-impact-last-week-did-it-really-happen > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Create a cool, new character for your Windows Live? Messenger. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9656621 From GeoZay at aol.com Thu Jun 18 09:13:02 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:13:02 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? Message-ID: >>Hollywood's portrayal and the general public's urban-myth-perception of meteors and meteorites are actually very helpful for people "in the loop" to quickly dismiss ridiculous claims, such as this kid's. It does save a lot of legwork, eh?<< I agree...but I think after this time, there will be a little more semi-knowledgeable people around to slip in various plausible details, to make what future witnesses say harder to logically dismiss. Now that could be good in the sense that the general public might be showing signs of being educated about meteor/meteorite characteristics. This boys story may be full of BS, but I think folks are beginning to catch on....temporarily. :O) GeoZay **************Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222677718x1201465083/aol?redir=http:%2F%2F ad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215692163%3B38015526%3Be) From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jun 18 11:05:49 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 18 Jun 2009 15:05:49 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] S&T July, 2009 issue Message-ID: Hello Folks, Interesting articles in the July issue: 1) p. 14 - Sculpting the Asteroid Belt 2) p. 16 - Very Fresh Martian Ice Craters 3) p. 22 - Uncovering Mars's Secret Past (water on Mars!) pp. 22-29 and, in the next issue: Sudan meteorite! Best wishes, Bernd From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Thu Jun 18 13:29:49 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:29:49 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 18, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_18_2009.html __________________________ **************Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222677718x1201465083/aol?redir=http:%2F%2F ad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215692163%3B38015526%3Be) From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 18 15:28:15 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:28:15 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Be afeared! Be very afeared! In-Reply-To: References: <1F484067C1D643B293B6C448723C3C7A@ATARIENGINE2> Message-ID: http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_opinion?id=161492093 From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 18 17:06:10 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:06:10 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Sale Meteorite Auctions ending"Tonight" on ebay and this weekend and new Specimens added this week, Lake Murray, from Oklahoma, Norton County, Krasnojarsk-First Pallasiet, Kunashak, Kainsaz, Miles-Australia, Tatahouine, plus Mighei, and Murchison Message-ID: <007c01c9f058$9bd62220$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Hello fellow Meteorite Collectors I hope you're having a Great Week! Please click on the link here to my ebay seller's page for some great meteorites I've listed that end "Tonight" and this weekend. Thanks for looking, clear skies and happy hunting Brian Cox searchingforfun is my ebay User Id......please click on the link below to go to my seller's page with all the meteorites below http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/searchingforfun_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NORTON COUNTY Meteorites 2.20g COAs IMCA AUBRITE Crust (270407214171) Endsin less than 2 hours !!!!!!!TATAHOUINE Meteorite The Green Met 1.992g COA IMCA ADIO (270407242094)Ends in about 3 hoursMILES Meteorite Iron IIE Sili Australia .199g COA IMCA (280357412012)Ends in 6 hoursGHUBARA Meteorites 13.47g COA IMCA Xenolithic CRUST (280357784040)LAKE MURRAY Meteorite 2.37 g COA IMCA IIAB RARE NICE (270408239282)MURCHISON Meteorite Australia .882g COA IMCA CRUST CM2 (280358494896)Almost a full gram!MURCHISON Meteorite Australia .010 g COA IMCA RARE CM2 (270408789706)Bluff Meteorite Texas 7.2 gms L5 IMCA COA 1878 Olivine (270408834307)CHINGA Meteorite USSR 119 g COA IMCA Iron Ataxite IVB-U (280358537053)Kainsaz Meteorite Russia 0.26g COA IMCA CO3.2 RARE Nice (270408858344)MIGHEI Met eorite Ukraine 1.418g COA IMCA CM2 VERY RARE (270408916128) VeryNice Specimen from Rob Elliott's Fernlea CollectionToluca Meteorite Mexico 90.0g COA IMCA Course Octa Iron (270409549531)Kunashak Meteorite Russia 2.17g COA IMCA Hard to Find (280359047153)Tulia Meteorite (a) H3-4, 6 gms IMCA 1917 Fusion CRUST (280359430898)NWA 300 Meteorite Morocco 5.3 g COA IMCA Brecciated (270410064086)NWA 300 Meteorite Morocco 7 g COA IMCA Brecciated (270410066611)Krasnojarsk Meteorite Russia .17g IMCA PAL VERY RARE (280359487856) TheVery First Named "Pallasite" named after Peter Pallas thanks for looking! Brian IMCA # 6387>> From damoclid at yahoo.com Thu Jun 18 17:51:54 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] WTB: LL4 specimen Message-ID: <924703.1436.qm@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello all, I'm looking for a small piece of LL4 to add to my type collection. I have been watching ebay sales and have visited a number of dealer sites but haven't found much material that interests me. Most are a bit too large, a bit above my per gram target for this sample, or both. I you have an end cut, full or part slice in the range of a few grams or so, please contact me off list with pix and price. Thanks! -- Richard Kowalski From gmhupe at htn.net Thu Jun 18 18:36:04 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:36:04 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Ocate" and "3-Layer Cake~A Visual Treat" Ending on eBay - AD Message-ID: <29C47898E93A49D9976CAEF3C1162585@Gregor> Dear List Members, If you like new American irons and an awesome L5 Impact Melt Breccia, you will want to check out the very last pieces of the following eBay meteorite auctions that end tomorrow (Friday, June 19th): 1) "Ocate", the New iron from New Mexico has been selling well and only five of 15 pieces remain available. Priced well for a New American iron! 2) NWA 5407, "3-Layer Cake ~ A Visual Treat", an awesome L5 Impact Melt Breccia. This is the first time these have been made available publicly. I have never seen a melt with three distinct zones of melt in a single slice!! The light area on top looks like icing on top of the cake! All of these can be found under eBay seller, NaturesVault, or by clicking here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Here is a list of the direct links for each individual auction: NWA 5407 "3-Layer Cake ~ A Visual Treat" L5-IMB (So nice, it is beyond description!): 48.6g cs Main Mass http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212043500 43.8g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342771871 40.5g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212044219 40.1g end cut http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212044617 38.2g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342772906 27.4g ps http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342773327 18.5g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212045858 Ocate IAB Iron New Mexico (all slices are about 3mm thick): 910g end cut http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212047356 208.2g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212048022 191g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212048345 162.9g ps http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342776849 162.8g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212049183 cs - complete slice ps - part slice These are the very last I have of each of these beautiful meteorites. If you are interested, you will not want to wait until the last minute to bid, there will not be another chance to get one of these once they are gone! There are also numerous bidders "Watching" these auctions and will most likely hit the "Bid Now" button at the last minute. In addition to these, I loaded up for 7-Day auctions a number of larger specimens of Planetaries and other great rarities that have all been started at just 99 cents! Some lucky bidders will win some great specimens when these end next Wednesday!! Click here to see all auctions at one click: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Best regards, and "Thank You" for bidding and/or looking! Good Luck! Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Thu Jun 18 18:43:09 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry Message-ID: <916494.347.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I loved this e-mail and I'm sure I speak for many on this list when I say a big thanks for it being shared with us. I saw Columbia on the back of the 747 when it did an overfly of Manchester (Ringway) back when I was a kid in the '80s and it's a memory I will never forget. Hats off to the pilot. Rob McCafferty --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > From: Sterling K. Webb > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry > To: cdtucson at cox.net, "Simon" , "meteoritelist" > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 12:01 AM > The original NASA e-mail that Carl > forwarded > to The List can be found here: > http://infinite-frontier.blogspot.com/2009/06/nasa-747-pilot-shares-experience.html > > An article about James Nickel can be found here: > http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/article/2002-02/twinkle-twinkle > > > Sterling K. Webb > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "Simon" ; > "meteoritelist" > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:20 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry > > > > Simon, List, > > Thank you for that but many on this list know me and > unfortunately I was not the author or pilot. This was a > forward intended only to share with the List. Sorry for any > confusion. Thanks Carl > > > > ---- Simon > wrote: > >> HI Carl :? I am an? organic farmer in > Ontario Canada,? I really enjoyed > >> your account of? bringing the shuttle? > back on the 747, I guess we're all > >> good at? whatever we do but I can just > imagine the stress? involved in your > >> mission. You must be well paid? to be able to > do an assignment? like that. > >> Thanks for giving us an inside? feel of your > job . > >> > >>? Regards > >>? Simon > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] > On Behalf Of > >> cdtucson at cox.net > >> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:42 PM > >> To: meteoritelist > >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry > >> > >> Enjoy. > >> > >> Well, it's been 48 hours since I landed the 747 > with the shuttle Atlantis on > >> top and I am still buzzing from the experience. I > have to say that my whole > >> mind, body and soul went into the professional > mode just before engine start > >> in Mississippi, and stayed there, where it all > needed to be, until well > >> after the flight...in fact, I am not sure if it is > all back to normal as I > >> type this email. The experience was surreal. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?Seeing that "thing" on top of > an already overly huge aircraft > >> boggles my mind. The whole mission from takeoff to > engine shutdown was > >> unlike anything I had ever done. It was like a > dream...someone else's dream. > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?We took off from Columbus AFB > on their 12,000 foot runway, of > >> > which > >> I used 11,999 1/2 feet to get the wheels off the > ground. We were at 3,500 > >> feet left to go of the runway, throttles full > power, nose wheels still > >> hugging the ground, copilot calling out decision > speeds, the weight of > >> Atlantis now screaming through my fingers clinched > tightly on the controls, > >> tires heating up to their near maximum temperature > from the speed and the > >> weight, and not yet at rotation speed, the speed > at which I would be pulling > >> on the controls to get the nose to rise. I just > could not wait, and I mean I > >> COULD NOT WAIT, and started pulling early. If I > had waited until rotation > >> speed, we would not have rotated enough to get > airborne by the end of the > >> runway. So I pulled on the controls early and > started our rotation to the > >> takeoff attitude. The wheels finally lifted off as > we passed over the stripe > >> marking the end of the runway and my next hurdle > (physically) was a line of > >> trees 1,000 feet of > >>? f the departure end of Runway 16. All I knew > was we were flying and so I > >> directed the gear to be retracted and the flaps to > be moved from Flaps 20 to > >> Flaps 10 as I pulled even harder on the controls. > I must say, those trees > >> were beginning to look a lot like those brushes in > the drive through car > >> washes so I pulled even harder yet! I think I saw > a bird just fold its wings > >> and fall out of a tree as if to say "Oh just take > me". Okay, we cleared the > >> trees, duh, but it was way too close for my > laundry. As we started to > >> actually climb, at only 100 feet per minute, I > smelled something that > >> reminded me of touring the Heineken Brewery in > Europe...I said "is that a > >> skunk I smell?" and the veterans of shuttle > carrying looked at me and smiled > >> and said "Tires"! > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?I said "TIRES??? OURS???" They > smiled and shook their heads > >> > as if to > >> call their Captain an amateur...okay, at that > point I was. The tires were so > >> hot you could smell them in the cockpit. My mind > could not get over, from > >> this point on, that this was something I had never > experienced. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?Where's your mom when you > REALLY need her? > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?The flight down to Florida was > an eternity. We cruised at 250 > >> > knots > >> indicated, giving us about 315 knots of ground > speed at 15,000'. The miles > >> didn't click by like I am use to them clicking by > in a fighter jet at MACH > >> .94. We were burning fuel at a rate of 40,000 > pounds per hour or 130 pounds > >> per mile, or one gallon every length of the > fuselage. The vibration in the > >> cockpit was mild, compared to down below and to > the rear of the fuselage > >> where it reminded me of that football game I had > as a child where you turned > >> it on and the players vibrated around the board. I > felt like if I had > >> plastic clips on my boots I could have vibrated to > any spot in the fuselage > >> I wanted to go without moving my legs...and the > noise was deafening. The 747 > >> flies with its nose 5 degrees up in the air to > stay level, and when you > >> bank, it feels like the shuttle is trying to say > "hey, let's roll completely > >> over on our back"..not a good thing I kept telling > myself. SO I limited my > >> bank? angle to 1 > >>? 5 degrees and even though a 180 degree > course change took a full zip code > >> to complete, it was the safe way to turn this > monster. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Airliners and even a flight of > two F-16s deviated from their > >> > flight > >> plans to catch a glimpse of us along the way. We > dodged what was in reality > >> very few clouds and storms, despite what everyone > thought, and arrived in > >> Florida with 51,000 pounds of fuel too much to > land with. We can't land > >> heavier than 600,000 pounds total weight and so we > had to do something with > >> that fuel. I had an idea...let's fly low and slow > and show this beast off to > >> all the taxpayers in Florida lucky enough to be > outside on that Tuesday > >> afternoon. So at Ormond Beach we let down to 1,000 > feet above the > >> ground/water and flew just east of the beach out > over the water. Then, once > >> we reached the NASA airspace of the Kennedy Space > Center, we cut over to the > >> Banana/Indian Rivers and flew down the middle of > them to show the people of > >> Titusville, Port St.Johns and Melbourne just what > a 747 with a shuttle on it > >> looked like. We stayed at 1,000 feet and since we > were dragging our flaps at > >> "Flaps 5", our spee > >>? d was down to around 190 to 210 knots. We > could see traffic stopping in the > >> middle of roads to take a look. We heard later > that a Little League Baseball > >> game stop to look and everyone cheered as we > became their 7th inning > >> stretch. Oh say can you see... > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?After reaching Vero Beach, we > turned north to follow the > >> > coast line > >> back up to the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF). > There was not one person > >> laying on the beach...they were all standing and > waving! "What a sight" I > >> thought...and figured they were thinking the same > thing. All this time I was > >> bugging the engineers, all three of them, to > re-compute our fuel and tell me > >> when it was time to land. They kept saying "Not > yet Triple, keep showing > >> this thing off" which was not a bad thing to be > doing. However, all this > >> time the thought that the landing, the muscling of > this 600,000 pound beast, > >> was getting closer and closer to my reality. I was > pumped up! We got back to > >> the SLF and were still 10,000 pounds too heavy to > land so I said I was going > >> to do a low approach over the SLF going the > opposite direction of landing > >> traffic that day. So at 300 feet, we flew down the > runway, rocking our wings > >> like a whale rolling on its side to say "hello" to > the people looking on! > >> One turn out > >>???of traffic and back to the runway > to land...still 3,000 pounds over gross > >> weight limit. But the engineers agreed that if the > landing were smooth, > >> there would be no problem. "Oh thanks guys, a > little extra pressure is just > >> what I needed!" So we landed at 603,000 pounds and > very smoothly if I have > >> to say so myself. The landing was so totally > controlled and on speed, that > >> it was fun. There were a few surprises that I > dealt with, like the 747 falls > >> like a rock with the orbiter on it if you pull the > throttles off at the > >> "normal" point in a > >> > >> > > >> > >> > landing and secondly, if you > thought you could hold the nose > >> > off the > >> ground after the mains touch down, think > again...IT IS COMING DOWN!!! > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?So I "flew it down" to the > ground and saved what I have seen > >> > in > >> videos of a nose slap after landing. Bob's video > supports this! :8-) > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?Then I turned on my phone > after coming to a full stop only to > >> > find > >> 50 bazillion emails and phone messages from all of > you who were so super to > >> be watching and cheering us on! What a treat, I > can't thank y'all enough. > >> For those who watched, you wondered why we sat > there so long. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?Well, the shuttle had very > hazardous chemicals on board and > >> > we had > >> to be "sniffed" to determine if any had leaked or > were leaking. They checked > >> for Monomethylhydrazine (N2H4 for Charlie Hudson) > and nitrogen tetroxide > >> (N2O4). Even though we were "clean", it took way > too long for them to tow us > >> in to the mate-demate area. Sorry for those who > stuck it out and even waited > >> until we exited the jet. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ? I am sure I will wake up in > the middle of the night here > >> > soon, > >> screaming and standing straight up dripping wet > with sweat from the > >> realization of what had happened. It was a thrill > of a lifetime. Again I > >> want to thank everyone for your interest and > support. It felt good to bring > >> Atlantis home in one piece after she had worked so > hard getting to the > >> Hubble Space Telescope and back. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?Triple Nickel > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?NASA Pilot > >> > >> Carl Esparza > >> IMCA 5828 > >> > ____________________________________________________________ > >> > Digital Photography - Click Now. > >> > > >> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 18 21:13:53 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:13:53 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] More stupid media use of meteorites In-Reply-To: <29C47898E93A49D9976CAEF3C1162585@Gregor> References: <29C47898E93A49D9976CAEF3C1162585@Gregor> Message-ID: http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/2012/trailer From meteoritemike at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 23:53:57 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:53:57 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Trade Offer - Nice Pyramid-shaped UNWA stone for Ensisheim or Weston. Message-ID: Hi List! In the spirit of the early days of the Saharan Gold Rush, I would like to trade a nice NWA specimen for a small piece of historical material. In this case, I have a pyramid-shaped, whole unclassified stone. It weighs 192 grams and has 90% remnant fusion crust and it has a nice patina of painted oxidation and desert varnish. It displays well in several positions and exhibits moderate attraction to a rare earth magnet. There is a small broken area where the matrix is exposed and there is some evidence of chondrule pits. So I am guessing it's an H4 or H5 or similar OC. It's too pretty to cut (or is it?) and I have been keeping it as a display stone or an outreach prop to pass around. Based on the current market trends, it's value is roughly .10 - .15 cents a gram dealer cost and maybe .25 to .50 cents a gram retail - I guesstimate. I would like to trade this UNWA stone for a piece of Weston, Ensisheim, L'Aigle, or some other significant historical fall. I don't expect a big specimen, but I don't want any Bessey Specks either. I already have small pieces of these falls in my collection in the 10-15mg range, so I don't want anything else that small - unless it's several small pieces put together in a lot. Here are some photos of the UNWA stone. I can provide more photos on request - mike at galactic-stone.com http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/unwa%20trade/unwa-triangle-1.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/unwa%20trade/unwa-triangle-2.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/unwa%20trade/unwa-triangle-3.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/unwa%20trade/unwa-triangle-broken.jpg Email any offers off-list please. Regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From jnbran at verizon.net Fri Jun 19 00:25:43 2009 From: jnbran at verizon.net (JASON PHILLIPS) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:25:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: 100kg Brenham on eBay In-Reply-To: <007c01c9f058$9bd62220$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> References: <007c01c9f058$9bd62220$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Message-ID: <086C428AA70141FE949BDC42E2CDD20F@AcerPC> Hello List, I have placed my 100 kg Brenham pallasite on eBay for a 10 day auction with no reserve. It comes with a letter of authenticity from Steve Arnold, in situ pictures of Dr. Ebel (American Museum of Natural History) and Steve retrieving it, and a dark cherry wooden stand. If you are interested in discussing this specimen please contact me. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260430948969&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3ALCA%3AUS%3A1123&salenotsupported Take Care and Thanks, Jason Phillips Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com From erikfwebb at msn.com Fri Jun 19 02:33:06 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:33:06 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] More stupid media use of meteorites In-Reply-To: References: <29C47898E93A49D9976CAEF3C1162585@Gregor> Message-ID: take some cool effects and mix them with the newest Y2k end of the world plot and every possible natural desaster know to man. Badah Bing Badah Boom. We are simple creatures... [Erik] ---------------------------------------- > From: cynapse at charter.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:13:53 -0500 > Subject: [meteorite-list] More stupid media use of meteorites > > http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/2012/trailer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteshow at free.fr Fri Jun 19 03:42:12 2009 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 07:42:12 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday Message-ID: <002a01c9f0b1$761ab830$0300a8c0@T42> ear Listees, Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow They include: 1- DaG 951 - L5 - 18.0g partslice: dimensions dimensions 60x43x4mm Displays lots of very thin metal flakes in a highly metamorpized matrix. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330335851912 2- EL AROUSS L-IMB (unclas.) - 5.3g endcut: dimensions 23x18x8mm. Nice tiny vesiculated cavities & a "milky way" of metal flakes. STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330335851930 3- NWA 859 (Taza) IRON UNGR. - 5.0g oriented: dimensions ~18x18x6mm. Beautiful shape with rollover lips. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330335851959 4- SAH 02500 L3 - 699g Crusted Individual: dimensions: 94x80x60mm. Nice chondrules & inclusions are visible where there is no fusion crust. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330335851981 Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!! Kind regards, Frederic Beroud http://www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/) From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jun 19 04:14:33 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 19 Jun 2009 08:14:33 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] First Ensisheim 2009 Pics Message-ID: Hello All, German List member and namesake "Bernd" (not me) has sent these first impressions to the German Met.List. My Pauline and me will be leaving for Ensisheim in about two or three hours. Enjoy: http://berru.de/index.php/fotos/category/18 Bernd From bristolia at yahoo.com Fri Jun 19 07:59:34 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 04:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Even More stupid media use of meteorites Message-ID: <504135.99483.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Darren wrote: " http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/2012/trailer " For even more hype, disaster movie "2012" also has a faux scientific website at: http://www.instituteforhumancontinuity.org/ It is the "home" of a entirely fictitious "The Institute for Human Continuity". The website has a fictional lottery to select those who will be saved when 94 percent of the world is destroyed as a result of a fictional Earth Crustal Displacement. I guess nobody ever went broke underestimating the gullibility of the American public. In addition, ABC will have mini-series called "Impact" will be broadcast on June 21. It is about a giant meteor storm that hits the Moon increasing it mass to the point that it becomes twice that of Earth and threatens to fall on Earth. It is discussed in "If I watch this I hope the Moon *will* hit the Earth" on the "Bad Astronomy" web page at: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ Best Regards Paul H. From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Fri Jun 19 08:18:39 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 08:18:39 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 19, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_19_2009.html __________________________ **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222435718x1201460505/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick. net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Fri Jun 19 08:40:07 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 05:40:07 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Even More stupid media use of meteorites In-Reply-To: <504135.99483.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <504135.99483.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <86f5f1daae3bda395a7d81c618f47dec.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi All: If they had only spent a tenth of their budget in this on getting science facts correct as they spent on this "stuff" in general... How many people are going to believe this stuff? If I read this site correctly, the Sun will be in the center of the galaxy? If that were true, we would have a lot more to worry about than planet x (like being pulled into a black hole). Larry Lebofsky wasting my time teaching real science to teachers and kids on a lot smaller budget > > Darren wrote: > " http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/2012/trailer " > > For even more hype, disaster movie "2012" also has a faux scientific > website at: > > http://www.instituteforhumancontinuity.org/ > > It is the "home" of a entirely fictitious "The Institute for Human > Continuity". The website > has a fictional lottery to select those who will be saved when 94 percent > of the world is > destroyed as a result of a fictional Earth Crustal Displacement. I guess > nobody ever went > broke underestimating the gullibility of the American public. > > In addition, ABC will have mini-series called "Impact" will be broadcast > on June 21. It > is about a giant meteor storm that hits the Moon increasing it mass to the > point that it > becomes twice that of Earth and threatens to fall on Earth. It is > discussed in "If I watch > this I hope the Moon *will* hit the Earth" on the "Bad Astronomy" web page > at: > > http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ > > Best Regards > > Paul H. > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 19 10:51:59 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 07:51:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Even More stupid media use of meteorites Message-ID: Hello Larry, Darren and All, Whoa!! That trailer looks awesome! First time I'd seen it. I'm a sucker for these disaster movies. How many times have you seen a nuclear aircraft carrier capsizing unto a city? Anyway, thanks to everyone one this list, at least I now know incoming stones shouldn't be flaming like that. So at least not everyone will be believing all of this stuff. I wonder if they'll show people scrambling around collecting those meteorites? Now that would be funny and more believable. No, I'm not making fun of meteorite hunters but I think it's something most of us on this list would do. Of course the sun (and presumable us) won't be in the center of the galaxy in 2012, but would appear thru line of sight to be. I think it's all a matter of language. Carl, the easily awestruck. _________________________________________________________________ Bing? brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 10:54:10 2009 From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 08:54:10 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Post for Langs Message-ID: <6f9da8300906190754v2e83fd02y92ee07de459e72b1@mail.gmail.com> Hi All Iris is having trouble posting to the list. Lots of great stuff for sale. Mike Dear meteorite list members, It has been a while that I posted to the meteorite list. I have just updated my sale pages on my meteorite web site: http://www.nyrockman.com The following are some of the new material entered. Canyon Diablo is a complete sculptural individual that a call the "CAT". The specimen weight is 2,957 grams. The size is 140" height by 105" wide. The specimen comes with the original invoice and is a numbered "Historic iron with Nininger specimen #34.5239". http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/canyon_diablo.htm Canyon Diablo complete individual weight is 10.2 kg "Historic iron with Nininger # 34.4949" and original invoice. Very sculptural piece. A museum grade A specimen. http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/canyon_diablo10.2kg.htm Esquel part slice of a beautiful Pallasite. The olivine crystals on this piece are just magnificent. This specimen also has a wonderful Windmanstattern pattern and has a gorgeous finish on the piece. It is a very impressive piece. The slice contains great looking olivine crystals (dark green, dark yellow and red) some olivine crystals you can see the light going threw the piece. The weight of the Esquel specimen 1,653 grams and the size 4.5 mm x 260 mm x 360 mm. http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/esquel.htm Henbury complete Individual 2.56 kg It is all natural with a very nice patina. http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/henbury.htm Henbury complete large Individual 5.55kg The meteorite specimen is all natural with a great looking patina. It also has a nice size hole. A real collector's piece. "Museum quality piece" This specimen is from my personal collection. http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/henbury5.55kg.htm Homestead very large fragment with a nice cut face 2,660 grams. The specimen has 35% fresh black fusion crust. A real collector's piece. "Museum grades A specimen." http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/homestead.htm Murchison very beautiful looking fragment that has 45% fresh black fusion crust. The specimen also has a very nice looking cut face. The weight is 234.6 grams http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/murchison234.5g.htm Murchison a beautiful looking fragment that has 30% fresh black fusion crust. The specimen also has a cut face the weight is 17.2 grams. A nice collector's piece. http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/murchison17.7g.htm Odessa excellent looking very large Individual specimen. "A museum quality specimen." Very sculptural and one of my best pieces from my personal meteorite collection. 35.2 kg http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/odessa35.2kg.htm Seymchan full slice is a very large beautiful pallasite weight 17.1kg. This is one of the best larger looking slices available. This slice has the largest surface are that I have ever offered. It has a nice balance of crystals and metal. This specimen's crystals go from fine to larger and are visible. The piece has been etched with a wonderful Windmanstattern pattern and has a gorgeous finish on the piece. The specimen has areas that are encrusted with (dark red, yellow and green) olivine crystals. "Museum grades A specimen." http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/seymchan.htm Sikhote-Alin a very large beautiful grade A- black oriented individual 18.8 kg Excellent looking iron meteorite with remaglypts. This beautiful oriented iron is covered with thumbprints, valleys and ridges. ( it is all natural) One of my best iron specimens from my personal meteorite collection. "Museum quality specimen." http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/sikhote_alin18.8kg.htm Udei station Slice 318 grams size 6 mm x 110 mm x 129 mm "good looking piece" http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/udei_station318g.htm Best regards Iris Lang http://www.nyrockman.com -- Mike -- Mike Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 USA 720-949-6220 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jun 19 12:16:01 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:16:01 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Even More stupid media use of meteorites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6ben3592017kv33tfs6i8tmn8aqcfuenaj@4ax.com> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 07:51:59 -0700, you wrote: >How many times have you seen a nuclear aircraft carrier capsizing unto a city? That's not a city, that's JFK returning to the White House. From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jun 19 12:12:03 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:12:03 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] More stupid media use of meteorites In-Reply-To: References: <29C47898E93A49D9976CAEF3C1162585@Gregor> Message-ID: <4A3BB8D3.5060703@meteoritesusa.com> Hi Darren, Carl, Paul, List, I started to reply to this yesterday but got pulled away before I could send the email. So far I've read 3 negative comments against this movie and one positive. Come on guys... It's a movie! And before you guys jump on me exclaiming that the movie should be more scientifically accurate, and Hollywood is only in it for the money I want to say. You're Right! The movie should have more accurate information regarding asteroid/meteorite impacts, but... It's Hollywood! They don't get paid to be accurate, they get paid with ticket sales, DVDs, adverts, licensing, etc. What the heck did you think Hollywood was going to do? Did you think Hollywood would ignore 2012? What better way than to play on the public's paranoia and fears. They've done it since the beginning of movie time! I don't know why this irks me when people seem to be overly judgmental and like to bash things just because. I'm not defending the inaccuracies in the movie, but sheesh. It's entertainment. I'm kind of torn about it this. Part of me loves the Hollywood visual effects and CGI, the sound was awesome too. On the flip side, I do wish I people would learn more about asteroid impacts and depict them in a scientifically accurate manner. It is possible to balance science and entertainment, but it's difficult, and cost loads of cash in a big budget film like this one to hire expert scientific advisers. I like the premise, love the visuals, and let them have their artistic license. 2012 is a great idea for a movie... Now I wonder what Steven Spielberg & George Lucas has planned for the upcoming doom-n-gloom date. That's a movie I eagerly await! Regards, Eric Darren Garrison wrote: > http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/2012/trailer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jun 19 12:12:03 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:12:03 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man Message-ID: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> List, I have two questions about this very interesting video that may be a bit off topic. The questions are ; Could this possibly be true and does this sort of thing happen in meteoritic's. see link below.Thank's. Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nne_-j08yMo From GeoZay at aol.com Fri Jun 19 12:44:27 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:44:27 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man Message-ID: >>I have two questions about this very interesting video that may be a bit off topic. The questions are ; Could this possibly be true and does this sort of thing happen in meteoritic's. see link below.Thank's.<< Did you notice at the beginning the logo of "UFOTV"? That alone should speak volumes. :O) GeoZay **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222435718x1201460505/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick. net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Jun 19 12:26:22 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:26:22 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man References: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> Message-ID: <41213CB59DD84F02A77D1AE33F9A54A7@bellatrix> What the video is suggesting is rubbish. The likelihood of man being much older is very, very small. Dating artifacts is notoriously difficult; dating techniques for organic material are very sensitive to contamination, and geological dating is unreliable (artifacts can easily end up in unexpected strata). Dates are generally determined by looking at lots of examples, so that the statistical uncertainty can be reduced. Taking a very small number of outliers and basing your conclusions on them is generally poor science. What is it exactly that you are suggesting could be the case with meteoritics? Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "meteoritelist" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:12 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man > List, > I have two questions about this very interesting video that may be a bit > off topic. The questions are ; Could this possibly be true and does this > sort of thing happen in meteoritic's. see link below.Thank's. > Carl Esparza From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Fri Jun 19 12:48:46 2009 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact Earth Message-ID: <746747.83410.qm@web32503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, I've been hard at work over the past two weeks finishing up my latest video entitled "Impact Earth" It was done documentary style for a contest. You know the type - "what are you doing to change the world?"?type thing. So I thought whats better than meteorite hunters helping to save the world?? Like the 2012 movie it's pretty tongue in cheek and not meant to be taken too seriously. It's worth a look if only to check out Darren Garrison's awesome graphics! Darren has a future with Lucas films I'm sure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UUG5eWKEKo ?Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona My Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net My Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ My Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v From GeoZay at aol.com Fri Jun 19 12:50:18 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:50:18 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] More stupid media use of meteorites Message-ID: >>I'm not defending the inaccuracies in the movie, but sheesh. It's entertainment.<< Entertainment is fine, just as long as it doesn't provide the sole source of the general publics education. All sorts of weird things come about from that...such as reports of 14 year old boys getting hit by 35,000mph pebble sized glowing meteorites and live to tell about it. :O) GeoZay **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222435718x1201460505/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick. net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jun 19 14:06:50 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:06:50 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man In-Reply-To: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> References: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> Message-ID: <53kn35hu25f3avl9mn9ugmv2dc2bf1tfsr@4ax.com> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:12:03 -0400, you wrote: >Could this possibly be true Complete, utter, undiluted, unequivocated, barking at the moon bullshit. Insane, idiotic, paranoid woo. Incompetent, irrational nutbaggery. Need I break out a thesaurus and go on? >does this sort of thing happen in meteoritic's Do people come up with weird, woo-filled conspiracy theories and then have their paranoia reinforced by nobody with serious knowledge take them seriously? Yes, all the time. From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jun 19 13:14:02 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:14:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man In-Reply-To: <53kn35hu25f3avl9mn9ugmv2dc2bf1tfsr@4ax.com> Message-ID: <20090619131402.B4TJ4.458371.imail@fed1rmwml33> Thanks Darren, Now tell us how you really feel? LOL. Carl ---- Darren Garrison wrote: > On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:12:03 -0400, you wrote: > > >Could this possibly be true > > Complete, utter, undiluted, unequivocated, barking at the moon bullshit. > Insane, idiotic, paranoid woo. Incompetent, irrational nutbaggery. Need I > break out a thesaurus and go on? > > >does this sort of thing happen in meteoritic's > > Do people come up with weird, woo-filled conspiracy theories and then have their > paranoia reinforced by nobody with serious knowledge take them seriously? Yes, > all the time. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jun 19 14:32:26 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:32:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] More stupid media use of meteorites In-Reply-To: <4A3BB8D3.5060703@meteoritesusa.com> References: <29C47898E93A49D9976CAEF3C1162585@Gregor> <4A3BB8D3.5060703@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <5qln359ki3adj4obtequ3l5b7na5ehp3oh@4ax.com> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:12:03 -0700, you wrote: >Come on guys... It's a movie! And before you guys jump on me exclaiming >that the movie should be more scientifically accurate, and Hollywood is >only in it for the money I want to say. You're Right! There is an old adage I've heard somewhere long ago about writing-- many famous, talented writers do not strictly follow the rules of grammar that you have pounded into you in school. So why (ask students) do we have to follow the rules if they don't? The answer given is that you need to know the rules to be allowed to break them. That's the same thing I see with movies like this-- the best of Science Fiction usually contains things that aren't scientifically valid to support the story-- time travel and FTL travel being two of the main ones. But the authors KNOW that they are dealing with impossibilities (high improbabilities?) when they write the material and hope that they can write it well enough that the readers/watchers are willing to suspend disbelief for the sake of the story. Hollywood productions like this and the moon one, on the other hand, are the product of people too poorly educated to even know that the stuff they are producing is a load of garbage. I'm very confident that they are clueless to the physics they are trashing with their silly premises. Breaking the rules when you KNOW the rules when doing so fits your needs I can respect. Breaking the rules because you are too poorly educated to know them, I can't. From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jun 19 14:38:11 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:38:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the eye hits your moon... In-Reply-To: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> References: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> Message-ID: <3omn35tp7qktbi8lastd6ail4rfcdi53k9@4ax.com> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/19/kaguyas-final-moments/ From astroroks at hotmail.com Fri Jun 19 13:36:40 2009 From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:36:40 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: 2012 Meteorite or not? Message-ID: From: astroroks at hotmail.com Subject: 2012 Meteorite or not? Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:28:24 -0500 Hello All... Long time reader, first time responder. Love the trailers and am looking forward to viewing. They are thought provoking, amusing and entertaining. But, what changes will we see during the 2012 winter solstice? I find it very interesting that the early Mayan, Egyptian, and Chinese astronomers picked that time for some kind of change or event. Oh, in one clip, I think I saw Farmer, Haag and Arnold running against the exiting masses of the city to get to the main mass...... Hope all have a Great weekend. Reloaded the GBII with fresh batteries and am ready. Dennis Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jun 19 13:11:22 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:11:22 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man In-Reply-To: <41213CB59DD84F02A77D1AE33F9A54A7@bellatrix> Message-ID: <20090619131122.CY76K.458292.imail@fed1rmwml33> Chris, I am asking not telling but here is yet another example that is 360 million years old? How many odd examples does it take? If two men say they are Jesus, one of them must be wrong. Right? see link. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.croponline.org/homoalaouite.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhomoalaouite%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG Carl ---- Chris Peterson wrote: > What the video is suggesting is rubbish. The likelihood of man being much > older is very, very small. Dating artifacts is notoriously difficult; dating > techniques for organic material are very sensitive to contamination, and > geological dating is unreliable (artifacts can easily end up in unexpected > strata). Dates are generally determined by looking at lots of examples, so > that the statistical uncertainty can be reduced. Taking a very small number > of outliers and basing your conclusions on them is generally poor science. > > What is it exactly that you are suggesting could be the case with > meteoritics? > > Chris > > ***************************************** > Chris L Peterson > Cloudbait Observatory > http://www.cloudbait.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "meteoritelist" > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:12 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man > > > > List, > > I have two questions about this very interesting video that may be a bit > > off topic. The questions are ; Could this possibly be true and does this > > sort of thing happen in meteoritic's. see link below.Thank's. > > Carl Esparza > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From GeoZay at aol.com Fri Jun 19 13:47:48 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:47:48 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man Message-ID: >>If two men say they are Jesus, one of them must be wrong. Right? << Do you mean THE JESUS or two guys named Jesus? :O) GeoZay **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222435718x1201460505/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick. net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Jun 19 13:53:22 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:53:22 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man References: <20090619131122.CY76K.458292.imail@fed1rmwml33> Message-ID: It takes a _lot_ more examples. If humans are millions of years old, I want to see as rich a fossil record of that as we have for thousands of other species. The reference describes a fossil skull, which may or may not be real (there is no peer review, and the images don't look like a real fossil). The author doesn't have any obvious qualifications in this area. He claims: "In July 2005, a small Primate skull was discovered in the desert of Tafilalet near Erfoud ( Morocco ). It was in the sand of a marble quarry where Devonian fossils were already found. Subsequently, the skull could be around 360 million years old." In other words, this object was not embedded in an existing matrix, but was simply in sand with old fossils. That is no basis for dating. I'd call the mummy reference a hoax. A little mummy that disappeared. They always disappear, don't they? Kind of like how Bigfoot radiates a mysterious aura that forces cameras to lose focus. And supposing it's real? Most of the experts who examined it thought it was a modern infant, not more than a few hundred years old. Without modern analysis, this purported mummy isn't even suggestive of anything interesting about human evolution. If two men say they are Jesus, then you might assume that one must be wrong. That's a limiting case. But realistically, the odds are very good that both are wrong. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "meteoritelist" ; "Chris Peterson" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Age of Man > Chris, I am asking not telling but here is yet another example that is 360 > million years old? How many odd examples does it take? > If two men say they are Jesus, one of them must be wrong. Right? > see link. > http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.croponline.org/homoalaouite.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhomoalaouite%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG > Carl From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 19 14:08:19 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:08:19 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Even More stupid media use of meteorites + Age of Man Message-ID: Hey Eric, Here's a possibility for Spielberg and Lucas. The German kid that got hit on his hand with a flaming meteorite is now 17. He is now a world famous archeologist/meteorite hunter and discovers artifacts under Table Mountain that is not only 55 million year old but mentions a giant asteroid will slam onto the Earth on Dec 21st. Meanwhile he meets a very aging Indiana Jones and together... Uh, Darren, Did I break too many rules? Carl, not so great screen writer _________________________________________________________________ Bing? brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 14:11:41 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:11:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Even More stupid media use of meteorites + Age of Man In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Edgar Cayce predicted all of this..... ;) On 6/19/09, Carl 's wrote: > > > > > Hey Eric, Here's a possibility for Spielberg and Lucas. The German kid that > got hit on his hand with a flaming meteorite is now 17. He is now a world > famous archeologist/meteorite hunter and discovers artifacts under Table > Mountain that is not only 55 million year old but mentions a giant asteroid > will slam onto the Earth on Dec 21st. Meanwhile he meets a very aging > Indiana Jones and together... > > Uh, Darren, Did I break too many rules? > > Carl, not so great screen writer > > _________________________________________________________________ > Bing? brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it > now. > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From astroroks at hotmail.com Fri Jun 19 14:34:31 2009 From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller