From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 1 00:03:38 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:03:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Orbiter Imagery Boots Curiosity Rover's Life Search Message-ID: <200906010403.VAA22131@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0905/31mromsl/ Mars orbiter imagery boosts Curiosity rover's life search BY CRAIG COVAULT SPACEFLIGHT NOW May 31, 2009 NASA and university scientists reviewing data from the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) say evidence is growing that the planet harbored life in its past or that Martian microbes exist now. They say their views are based on the growing body of data on the diversity of water related minerals discovered by MRO. It is also supported by findings from other spacecraft such as Europe's Mars Express orbiter and NASA's Phoenix lander and twin Mars rovers. The MRO data is being used to narrow the best sites to locate life related evidence, while also being safe enough for the Mars Science Laboratory rover "Curiosity" set for launch in 2011. MRO's high resolution mineralogy data resulted in, for example, the addition of Gale crater to MSL's final landing target list. The Curiosity rover will carry 10 times the science payload mass of the coffee-table sized Spirit and Opportunity rovers still operating on Mars. MSL's much larger size is evident by the scale of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory MSL development rover that is the same size of the flight vehicle (see above). Called the "Scarecrow" (because it does not have a computer brain) the MSL developmental rover here--stripped of all but its wheels and chassis--shows the scale of the vehicle far better than more complex mockups with pseudo instrumentation in place because those versions hide chassis details. The new MRO data is being used specifically for final MSL landing site selection as well as assessing evidence for current or past life across Mars. "Every time we go and look at new data from the planet I have gotten more encouraged that the possibility for life at least in Mars' past," says Mike Meyer NASA's lead scientist for Mars exploration. "There is encouraging new MRO evidence that makes the pursuit of present day life very worthwhile," says Scott Murchie of the Applied Physics Laboratory at Johns Hopkins University, principal investigator of the MRO Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer. "I definitely think there could have been life on Mars," says Richard Zurek, MRO project scientist at JPL. All three scientists commented on the life issues at a NASA Headquarters briefing on MRO highlights, as the orbiter has just completed its primary science mission and is beginning and extended science mission phase. "I think there is very encouraging evidence not just to look in the present, but also for what [past life may have come] before during planets evolution," Murchie says. His team's CRISM instrument has returned extensive new evidence on the diversity of water related mineral locations on the planet. Meyer said the discovery of methane in the current Martian atmosphere as well as evidence of liquid water on the planet today are positive factors toward the potential for current life on Mars. On Earth methane is a common byproduct of metabolism by life forms. It has been discovered at specific locations in the Martian atmosphere by the European Mars Express Orbiter. In addition Phoenix lander scientists believe their spacecraft splashed up actual liquid water on Mars during its landing on an arctic water ice plane in 2008. Phoenix also detected carbonate related soil chemistry that could support life. MRO is finding similar carbonate chemistry at other locations on Mars. "I think life could have developed on Mars but whether it is there today I am not so sure," Zurek cautioned however, Zurek said that MRO and other data has become so compelling on positive factors for at least past Martian life, that an important questions is if no life is found on Mars , why has it not formed, he asked? That would force a major new branch of study on the assessment for diminished chances for life on other bodies besides Earth, in or outside of the solar system he says. He said that the same ingredients present on Earth when life began to form just a billion years after the planet formed were also present at the same time on Mars, when its climate was warmer and more hospitable to surface life than it is now. Those include surface and underground water, solar energy and heat and heat from within the planet . All three scientists said underground Mars life may be more likely than surface life just as on Earth where there is more biomass underground than on the surface. A major emphasis in the new MRO phase will be to search for near real time geologic and aqueous processes that could bear on the current life question, such as detection of real time or recent outbursts of water from the sides of crater walls. MRO has made some spectacular discoveries that relate to the presence of water or ancient Mars and its abundance at specific locations. One such site is at Nili Fossae, where there is remarkable mineral evidence relating to water. The area, based on CRISM data was initially considered as an MSL landing area but rejected as too hazardous. That does not diminish its significance, however, as an area where life could have formed. Some future rover beyond MSL or even a manned lander may some day visit Nili Fossae based on the MRO imagery. That MRO imagery shows carbonate minerals (color coded green) indicating that Mars had neutral to alkaline water when the minerals formed at these locations more than 3.6 billion years ago. Carbonates, which on Earth include limestone and chalk, dissolve quickly in acid. Therefore, their survival until today on Mars challenges suggestions that an exclusively acidic environment later dominated the planet. Instead, it indicates that different types of watery environments existed. The greater the variety of wet environments, the greater the chances one or more of them may have supported life, scientists agree. "We're excited to have finally found carbonate minerals because they provide more detail about conditions during specific periods of Mars' history," said Murchie. The best-exposed rocks occur along a Nili Fossae trough system 414 mi. long at the edge of a large basin. The region has rocks rich in olivine, (color coded yellow) a mineral that can react with water to form the carbonate. "This discovery of carbonates in an intact rock layer, in contact with clays, is an example of how joint observations by CRISM and the telescopic cameras on MRO are revealing details of distinct environments on Mars," said Sue Smrekar, deputy project scientist for the orbiter at JPL. They point to specific locations where future rovers and landers could search for possible evidence of past life, she says. Gale crater and three other potential MSL sites, already picked based on earlier data, and reexamination by MRO , will be narrowed to a final target site by late next year. The image of Gale shown above also shows the candidate MSL landing ellipse within the crater. CRISM data indicate that water once in the crater left a detailed and layered mineralogical record on the crater walls and around the crater's giant central peak. The peak documents what took place there from the time a giant meteorite initially formed the crater 3 billion years ago, to later periods in Mars history. The oldest exposed rocks are at the top of the central peak. Layering all up and down the peak indicate different water layers in the crater through more recent time since the crater was formed. If Gale crater is selected, Murchie says MSL rover instruments will look for fossils of past Martian life there as well as less spectacular evidence, like organic bearing rocks that could have been formed with microorganisms present and preserved the chemical signitures of past life. MRO is also continuing to image three other MSL landing site candidates equally compelling says Zurek. They are: *Marwth Valley:* The only MSL candidate landing site in the northern hemisphere is the Marwth Valley area. " It too is important because of the diversity of the mineral signatures that you see," Zurek says. A large channel carved by water cuts across the valley below highlands out of where the water flowed. The highlands also show the effects of water, Zurek says. "There we see different mineral signatures in different layers indicating the episodic activity of water or the mixing of soils by impacts in the early history of Mars," he says. *Holden Crater:* In the southern hemisphere of Mars the 60 mi. dia. Holden crater area is also a landing site finalist because of a channel that goes into that crater. MRO data indicate water once flowed into that crater, then formed a lake before it breached the far wall and ran out, leaving layers. "In those layers we would expect to find evidence of the past chemistry, the action of water, and how long it was there," says Zurek. "They may also have the potential of preserving bio signature evidence of past life if life ever developed on the planet and flourished in this area." *Eberswalde Crater:* "The outstanding characteristic of Eberswalde crater is that it has a delta formation like that formed by the Mississippi river," Zurek says. The delta is highly structured and layered, "meaning that there were many episodes of water flowing into the crater," he says. Those layers are the kind of formation that could preserve evidence of past life if that life had developed on the planet, Zurek says. From meteoritemike at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 00:05:44 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 00:05:44 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite magazine: Celebrating O. Richard Norton's life In-Reply-To: <66717.35236.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4A20A56F.2010905@meteoritesusa.com> <599112.98628.qm@web83813.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <6b7d6d55911c48b593e86d4cc284a82c.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> <66717.35236.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Larry, Nancy and List, I agree, great idea here. I can't wait to see the tribute issue. :) Best regards, MikeG On 5/31/09, Ruben Garcia wrote: > > Outstanding! Thank you Larry and Nancy Lebofsky! > > Ruben Garcia > Phoenix, Arizona > My Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net > My Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ > My Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu" > To: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:44:57 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite magazine: Celebrating O. Richard > Norton's life > > Dear Friends: > > As most of you are aware, O. Richard Norton was a supporter of and > involved with "Meteorite" magazine from the very beginning, He wrote his > first article, ?Meteorites?Chips off the Old Asteroid Block,? in the first > issue of "Meteorite!" in 1995. He also wrote ?Centerpiece? for ten years. > We will all miss him. > > Because of this, we would like to celebrate the life Richard Norton by > dedicating the November issue of "Meteorite" magazine to him. Many of you > have written to the Meteorite and IMCA lists expressing your feelings and, > in some cases, giving your personal experiences with Richard or with one > of the many books he has written. > > We would like to include a series of anecdotes about your personal > experiences with Richard (or one of his many books) that can be published > in the November issue. As much as possible, we would like to do this as a > historical sequence with pictures, to show who he has influenced in the > meteorite community, in what way, and when. How far back does his > influence go? Ron Hartman and Richard were at UCLA together and Nancy took > an astronomy class and a photography class from him in 1974 and 1975 when > he was the Director of the Grace H. Flandrau Planetarium here in Tucson. > > Please try to limit your text to one or two images and about a hundred > words! > > Please send your emails directly to us at: > > lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu and copy to llebofsky at gmail.com > > Thanks to all of you in advance. > > Larry and Nancy Lebofsky > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From lintonius at earthlink.net Mon Jun 1 02:57:23 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 23:57:23 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? Message-ID: Greetings listees. I know some of you prefer to use the Fisher Gold Bug II metal detectors. I've been watching for a "pre-owned model" and what I'm wondering is... Is the difference between the Gold Bug II and the original subtle, or substantial? Should I bother with the original at a good price, or hold out for the newer model? Either way, this will be my first detector. Any advice would be highly appreciated. Thank you. Linton From erikfwebb at msn.com Mon Jun 1 04:14:52 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 01:14:52 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The second version has a substantially higher frequency so it's really hot on metal. John Wolfe's can pick up some gold basin L's and Palo Verde Mine L's that a GMT can't. He showed me some very nice specimen gold too. With my Dad's Gold Bug Origional, I have found bird shot 8 inches deep, as loud as a wistle. Either one is good on meteorites but I would sugest paying for the version two. [Erik] > From: lintonius at earthlink.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 23:57:23 -0700 > Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > > Greetings listees. > I know some of you prefer to use the Fisher Gold Bug II metal detectors. > I've been watching for a "pre-owned model" and what I'm wondering is... > Is the difference between the Gold Bug II and the original subtle, or > substantial? > Should I bother with the original at a good price, or hold out for the newer > model? > Either way, this will be my first detector. Any advice would be highly > appreciated. > Thank you. > Linton > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at mcomemeteorite.it Mon Jun 1 10:36:56 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:36:56 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions ending soon Message-ID: <4a23e788.37d.3fae.1450297410@webmaildh4.aruba.it> for who is interested go here http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=mcomemeteorite Matteo M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.org Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com From mlblood at cox.net Mon Jun 1 17:57:12 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 14:57:12 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] announcement from Oz Dog In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Michael Back to using the desktop after a hard disk in one of the laptops went pearshaped... Havent set up email properly - just using webmail pro tem Can u let the list know I've upped some gorgeous pix of the MILES meteorite http://www.qmig.org ozdoggie - wrooof From fujmon at mac.com Mon Jun 1 18:59:15 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:59:15 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments Message-ID: Aloha, I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 worth of meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from Argentina. I had noticed the package felt light, but discovered that the US postal service is not responsible for thefts of the contents of international mailed items that are not insured. This shipment was not insured and so I will in all likelihood take the full brunt of this loss. Thievery by customs officials, foreign and domestic postal workers and other individuals or organized groups inside and outside the US is a possibility! I believe most packages arrive at their destinations with their contents intact, but feel it is negligent and at the very least unconscionable not to insure shipments at or above the full value of the contents. I know it costs more to do so, but please consider insurance especially for foreign shipments. Mailing specimen cards and paperwork separately from the meteorites can also prevent thieves from knowing what those "Mineral Samples" are. Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? I personally don't think so, unless I was given a choice and elected not to insure. I would hope that the seller (an IMCA member who, to his credit is working with me) would have a sudden rush of conscience and compensate, or share the loss with me, since his act of omission provides me with little if any recourse. What are my rights, and what can I do? Do other dealers insure their shipments? What is SOP? Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 1 19:17:35 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 16:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Scientists Find Evidence for Liquid Water on a Frozen Early Mars Message-ID: <200906012317.QAA01924@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.nasa.gov/topics/moonmars/features/mars_freeze_052709.html NASA Scientists Find Evidence for Liquid Water on a Frozen Early Mars 05.27.09 NASA scientists modeled freezing conditions on Mars to test whether liquid water could have been present to form the surface features of the Martian landscape. Evidence suggests flowing water formed the rivers and gullies on the Mars surface, even though surface temperatures were below freezing. Dissolved minerals in liquid water may be the reason. Photo Credit: NASA Researchers report that fluids loaded with dissolved minerals containing elements such as silicon, iron, magnesium, potassium and aluminum, can remain in a liquid state at temperatures well below freezing. The results of this research appear in the May 21 issue of Nature magazine entitled "Stability Against Freezing of Aqueous Solutions on Early Mars." "We found that the salts in water solutions can reduce the melting point of water, which may help explain how liquid water existed in a frozen Martian environment," said Alberto Fair??n, a space scientist at NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif. and the lead author of the study. To understand what formed the surface features on Mars, scientists have focused on the early Martian conditions. Was early Mars warm and wet, or cold and dry? Surface features throughout most of the Martian landscape suggest the presence of water ponds ranging from seas to lakes, and rivers and gullies formed by flowing water, which imply that early Mars was wet. But there also is some evidence that suggests that Mars may have been permanently cold, with global temperatures well below the freezing point of pure water. To study the 'liquidity' of water on Mars, climate modelers first simulated various concentrations of greenhouse gases in its atmosphere. They found that these gases cannot efficiently raise the surface temperature above freezing. A greenhouse atmosphere produced by carbon dioxide and water would have been saturated well below freezing. In addition, the amount of methane needed to raise the surface temperature above freezing, implies the planet had a terrestrial-like biological source for its methane supply, according to previous investigations. Scientists then took another approach and looked at water solutions containing weathering basalts, similar to those seen at the Mars landing sites. They calculated these fluids' freezing points and evaporative processes. Results showed that a significant amount of weathering fluids containing silicon, iron, magnesium, calcium, chloride, sodium, potassium and aluminum remain in the liquid at temperatures well below freezing. In addition, they studied the minerals that precipitated in the liquid solutions over time. These minerals are similar to those actually found on the Martian surface. Scientists concluded that salty liquid water on Mars may explain the stability of fluids against freezing on the Martian surface at temperatures below 0??C. "Our goal was to learn how a combination of different processes of evaporation and freezing affect the freezing point of a hypothetical Martian solution. We also wanted to see how the liquid phases formed and destabilized over the evolution of different solutions," added Alfonso Davila, a co-author of the paper at NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif. Ruth Dasso Marlaire Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif. From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 19:35:03 2009 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 16:35:03 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <468bf6050906011635x666d7e3i4601270f7f1a4f78@mail.gmail.com> Hi Gary sorry to hear about this loss. I will be interested to hear some of the non US dealers and sellers answer here. I know when I buy from other countries I use either Pay pal or a major credit card. I did one time have a problem with a decent sized Muonionalusta never arriving. So I reported this to the Credit card company and with little or no work they gave me the money back. The same is true of Pay pal if a shipment would arrive in part they have a process to go through designed to protect the buyer. I have never used the Pay pal buyer protection, but my customers have a couple times and it simply means the buyer gets their money back. EBay is the same way, if the buyer does not get the item they will get their money back. Seems like there is a pattern starting to develop here. Now this seller is not necessarily bound by these other companies but it is in their best interest to make sure the customer is satisfied with the out come of this transaction. A seller is only as good as his or her reputation and in our small community new travels very fast. Also many times when I ship fairly expensive items outside the US insurance is not even an option. The limits are small and I don't remember the numbers but they are no where near $1600. On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Gary Fujihara wrote: > Aloha, > > I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 worth of > meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from Argentina. ?I had > noticed the package felt light, but discovered that the US postal service is > not responsible for thefts of the contents of international mailed items > that are not insured. ?This shipment was not insured and so I will in all > likelihood take the full brunt of this loss. > > Thievery by customs officials, foreign and domestic postal workers and other > individuals or organized groups inside and outside the US is a possibility! > ?I believe most packages arrive at their destinations with their contents > intact, but feel it is negligent and at the very least unconscionable not to > insure shipments at or above the full value of the contents. ?I know it > costs more to do so, but please consider insurance especially for foreign > shipments. ?Mailing specimen cards and paperwork separately from the > meteorites can also prevent thieves from knowing what those "Mineral > Samples" are. > > Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? ?I > personally don't think so, unless I was given a choice and elected not to > insure. ?I would hope that the seller (an IMCA member who, to his credit is > working with me) would have a sudden rush of conscience and compensate, or > share the loss with me, since his act of omission provides me with little if > any recourse. ?What are my rights, and what can I do? ?Do other dealers > insure their shipments? ?What is SOP? > > Gary Fujihara > AstroDay Institute > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > http://astroday.net > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 1 20:43:40 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:43:40 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:59:15 -1000, you wrote: >I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 >worth of meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from >Argentina. ... >Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? Isn't it illegal now to export meteorites from Argentina (assuming this is a meteorite originating in Argentina, not simply meteortes from elsewhere provided by a seller there)? Okay, a little Googling, and it is just Campo del Cielo that is state-owned, and requires a duty be paid to export it: http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/2002M%26PSB..37....5S/0000006.000.html I would assume that in a situation (not saying that you were in that situation) where the shipment would have been concidered illegal (Campo del Cielo shipped without paying the export) it would be uninsurable anyway. From rhartman04 at earthlink.net Mon Jun 1 19:54:56 2009 From: rhartman04 at earthlink.net (R N Hartman) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 16:54:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments References: Message-ID: <000a01c9e314$5de30560$6401a8c0@DBZC5NB1> Aloha Gary, I'd also like to know more about seller's experiences collecting insurance from the USPS. They tell me that unless you can document a tangible basis for cost that you paid (invoice, receipts, etc.) you can not collect even though you hasve paid for insurance. This is difficult to do if you are the finder (I picked it up off the ground!) and seller of the specimen. Or, for example, you buy from a foreign source for 12 cts a gram a meteorite that turns out to be a Martian worth $2000/g., you can only collect the 12 cts. if it is lost in transit when you sell it. I think that you need to insist that the seller personally guarantee the value of the shipment either by insurance or otherwise, but have it be his responsibility. I doubt that you would have much luck collecting insurance from a foreign country yourself. And I don't think FedEx is much better. We had a tracked and signed parcel shipped to us from Switzerland once (membrane boxes) which Fed Ex delivered in error to an attorney's office in the Bahamas! FedEx tracked it and they lost it. Even though someone signed for it, they denied they recived it. Then it took several months before we could get FedEx to pay for the loss even though it was insured. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Fujihara" To: "MeteorList" Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:59 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments > > > I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 worth > of meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from Argentina. I > had noticed the package felt light, but discovered that the US postal > service is not responsible for thefts of the contents of international > mailed items that are not insured. This shipment was not insured and so > I will in all likelihood take the full brunt of this loss. > > Thievery by customs officials, foreign and domestic postal workers and > other individuals or organized groups inside and outside the US is a > possibility! I believe most packages arrive at their destinations with > their contents intact, but feel it is negligent and at the very least > unconscionable not to insure shipments at or above the full value of the > contents. I know it costs more to do so, but please consider insurance > especially for foreign shipments. Mailing specimen cards and paperwork > separately from the meteorites can also prevent thieves from knowing what > those "Mineral Samples" are. > > Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? I > personally don't think so, unless I was given a choice and elected not to > insure. I would hope that the seller (an IMCA member who, to his credit > is working with me) would have a sudden rush of conscience and > compensate, or share the loss with me, since his act of omission provides > me with little if any recourse. What are my rights, and what can I do? > Do other dealers insure their shipments? What is SOP? > > Gary Fujihara > AstroDay Institute > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > http://astroday.net > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteorites at optushome.com.au Mon Jun 1 20:36:33 2009 From: meteorites at optushome.com.au (Norbert & Heike Kammel) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 10:36:33 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A247411.3000901@optushome.com.au> Aloha Gary, G'Day List, in the interest of the buyer, to avoid paying high import duties, we hardly state the correct contents (we state iron meteorites as 'native iron specimens) and declare a much lesser value, so the customer does not have to pay import tax. But that is a dual agreement between us and the customer. We recommend to insure, and if the customer refuses this, the package will be sent at his/her own risk. The sellers duty of care is generally fulfilled with lodging a well packed parcel at the post office. The customer knows the risk for not paying the additional money for insurance and for declaring a lesser value for the contents. Throughout our time of business we lost three packages, and in all cases we sent replacements at the same or better value at no costs for the customer. It may be a little too much asked for if the value is several thousand dollars. :-\ Please also keep in mind that to some destinations it cannot be insured for. In the interest of our business we will always endeavour to keep our customers satisfied and are very proud of our unblemished reputation. These are just our thoughts in this matter. Best regards from Down-Under, Norbert Kammel IMCA # 3420 www.rocksonfire.com Gary Fujihara wrote: > Aloha, > > I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 > worth of meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from > Argentina. I had noticed the package felt light, but discovered that > the US postal service is not responsible for thefts of the contents of > international mailed items that are not insured. This shipment was > not insured and so I will in all likelihood take the full brunt of > this loss. > > Thievery by customs officials, foreign and domestic postal workers and > other individuals or organized groups inside and outside the US is a > possibility! I believe most packages arrive at their destinations > with their contents intact, but feel it is negligent and at the very > least unconscionable not to insure shipments at or above the full > value of the contents. I know it costs more to do so, but please > consider insurance especially for foreign shipments. Mailing specimen > cards and paperwork separately from the meteorites can also prevent > thieves from knowing what those "Mineral Samples" are. > > Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? I > personally don't think so, unless I was given a choice and elected not > to insure. I would hope that the seller (an IMCA member who, to his > credit is working with me) would have a sudden rush of conscience and > compensate, or share the loss with me, since his act of omission > provides me with little if any recourse. What are my rights, and what > can I do? Do other dealers insure their shipments? What is SOP? > > Gary Fujihara > AstroDay Institute > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > http://astroday.net > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From lintonius at earthlink.net Tue Jun 2 00:51:59 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:51:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? Message-ID: Thank you, Erik. Based on that, I'll try to find myself a Gold Bug II, but if I come across a good deal on the original model, that might be fine to get started with. Linton Erik Fisler erikfwebb at msn.com Mon Jun 1 04:14:52 EDT 2009 Previous message: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? Next message: [meteorite-list] announcement from Oz Dog Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] The second version has a substantially higher frequency so it's really hot on metal. John Wolfe's can pick up some gold basin L's and Palo Verde Mine L's that a GMT can't. He showed me some very nice specimen gold too. With my Dad's Gold Bug Origional, I have found bird shot 8 inches deep, as loud as a wistle. Either one is good on meteorites but I would sugest paying for the version two. [Erik] > From: lintonius at earthlink.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 23:57:23 -0700 > Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > > Greetings listees. > I know some of you prefer to use the Fisher Gold Bug II metal detectors. > I've been watching for a "pre-owned model" and what I'm wondering is... > Is the difference between the Gold Bug II and the original subtle, or > substantial? > Should I bother with the original at a good price, or hold out for the > newer > model? > Either way, this will be my first detector. Any advice would be highly > appreciated. > Thank you. > Linton From mikewren at gilanet.com Tue Jun 2 01:06:37 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:06:37 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2E328F72-887A-4002-8698-35887BDA6999@gilanet.com> Hello, A quick side note about Fisher Gold Bug's I and II . I have both and sometimes I can't tell the difference between the two. I use my old one -GB1, 80% of the time. In fact, I found over 1 1/2 ounces of gold nuggets this week. Better yet, in WEST, Texas I found nearly 200 grams of complete stones with my Gold Bug 1, found them in the tall grass. Even though West (Ash Creek), is an L6, the Gold Bug picked them up. I have 6 metal detectors, and the Gold Bug I and II were the only ones that would pick up the West meteorite. I would easily recommend an older Fisher Gold Bug 1, make sure it comes with a manual though and expect to spend some real time getting use to it. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On Jun 1, 2009, at 9:51 PM, Linton Rohr wrote: > Thank you, Erik. > Based on that, I'll try to find myself a Gold Bug II, > but if I come across a good deal on the original model, > that might be fine to get started with. > Linton > > > Erik Fisler erikfwebb at msn.com > Mon Jun 1 04:14:52 EDT 2009 > Previous message: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > Next message: [meteorite-list] announcement from Oz Dog > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > > The second version has a substantially higher frequency so it's > really hot on metal. > John Wolfe's can pick up some gold basin L's and Palo Verde Mine L's > that a GMT can't. > He showed me some very nice specimen gold too. > > With my Dad's Gold Bug Origional, I have found bird shot 8 inches > deep, as loud as a wistle. > Either one is good on meteorites but I would sugest paying for the > version two. > > [Erik] > >> From: lintonius at earthlink.net > >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 23:57:23 -0700 > >> Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > >> > >> Greetings listees. > >> I know some of you prefer to use the Fisher Gold Bug II metal >> detectors. > >> I've been watching for a "pre-owned model" and what I'm wondering >> is... > >> Is the difference between the Gold Bug II and the original subtle, or > >> substantial? > >> Should I bother with the original at a good price, or hold out for >> the newer > >> model? > >> Either way, this will be my first detector. Any advice would be >> highly > >> appreciated. > >> Thank you. > >> Linton > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From lintonius at earthlink.net Tue Jun 2 01:20:12 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:20:12 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? Message-ID: <75388F73D77244CF867DA068D25F068E@D190TH71> Thank you, Michael. That's very interesting. And quite helpful. The Gold Bug I tends to go for a little less. I've just quit working and may have enough free time now to do a little hunting. :^) Linton __________________________________ michael cottingham mikewren at gilanet.com Tue Jun 2 01:06:37 EDT 2009 Previous message: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello, A quick side note about Fisher Gold Bug's I and II . I have both and sometimes I can't tell the difference between the two. I use my old one -GB1, 80% of the time. In fact, I found over 1 1/2 ounces of gold nuggets this week. Better yet, in WEST, Texas I found nearly 200 grams of complete stones with my Gold Bug 1, found them in the tall grass. Even though West (Ash Creek), is an L6, the Gold Bug picked them up. I have 6 metal detectors, and the Gold Bug I and II were the only ones that would pick up the West meteorite. I would easily recommend an older Fisher Gold Bug 1, make sure it comes with a manual though and expect to spend some real time getting use to it. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From erikfwebb at msn.com Tue Jun 2 01:36:40 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:36:40 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? In-Reply-To: <75388F73D77244CF867DA068D25F068E@D190TH71> References: <75388F73D77244CF867DA068D25F068E@D190TH71> Message-ID: Michael, they both can pick up an L6 Chondrite but the gold bug origional will have more of a problem with basalt like at Gold Basin or Franconia. The higher frequency makes a big difference when in hot ground. [Erik] > From: lintonius at earthlink.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:20:12 -0700 > Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > > > Thank you, Michael. > That's very interesting. And quite helpful. > The Gold Bug I tends to go for a little less. > I've just quit working and may have enough free time now to do a little > hunting. :^) > Linton > > __________________________________ > > > michael cottingham mikewren at gilanet.com > Tue Jun 2 01:06:37 EDT 2009 > Previous message: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > > Hello, > > A quick side note about Fisher Gold Bug's I and II . I have both and > sometimes I can't tell the difference between the two. I use my old > one -GB1, 80% of the time. In fact, I found over 1 1/2 ounces of gold > nuggets this week. > > Better yet, in WEST, Texas I found nearly 200 grams of complete stones > with my Gold Bug 1, found them in the tall grass. Even though West > (Ash Creek), is an L6, the Gold Bug picked them up. I have 6 metal > detectors, and the Gold Bug I and II were the only ones that would > pick up the West meteorite. I would easily recommend an older Fisher > Gold Bug 1, make sure it comes with a manual though and expect to > spend some real time getting use to it. > > Best Wishes > > Michael Cottingham > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From zneutronz at aol.com Tue Jun 2 06:20:09 2009 From: zneutronz at aol.com (zneutronz at aol.com) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 06:20:09 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA4483 lunar meteorite Message-ID: <8CBB182D7BDB6EB-F50-353C@webmail-mh31.sysops.aol.com> hola members ! as there is a crisis and i really need fast money i offer : NWA 4483, 5.612g End cut, lunar granulitic i sell it for 490 dollar per gram. i payed much more ! if you are interested please contact me ! regards, oliver ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Tue Jun 2 11:36:42 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (star_wars_collector at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 08:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD- Camel Donga, Tatahouine, NWA 4734, NWA 5480 Achondrite sale Message-ID: <439664.27498.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi to all, I have alot of very nice achondrites listed on ebay for sale. Some of the items include: NWA 4734 - Lunar - 3 slices left! NWA 5480 - Olivine Diogenite Camel Donga - Eucrite - whole stones slices and endcuts for $30 per gram Tatahouine - Diogenite - up to 2.7g L'Aigle - Historic fall - Last one! and a few other nice meteorites. Many items include free shipping. Visit my ebay page here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZstar_wars_coiiectorQQhtZ-1 Thanks for looking, hope everyone has a great day! Greg C. From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Tue Jun 2 11:51:53 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 17:51:53 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - looking for Walter Branch & Laurent Jaworsky Message-ID: <003a01c9e39a$0d7c79e0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Sorry for disturbing. Walter, Laurent - please contact me immediately. Thanks! Martin From gmhupe at htn.net Tue Jun 2 12:00:24 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 12:00:24 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zaklodzie-like NWA 4301 and Ocate - AD Message-ID: Dear List Members, To satisfy a number of requests for smaller, more affordable specimens of the new "Zaklodzie-like" NWA 4301, I put on eBay about a dozen pieces which will end tomorrow, Wednesday, June 3rd. Also ending are very generous-sized achondrites including; Howardites, Angrites, Brachinites, Mesos, Lunars, Martians, Olivine Diogenites and more excellent deals... Click here to see all of my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Concerning the new iron from New Mexico, Ocate, which is not on eBay, there are only five specimens left. They are: Ocate, New Mexico IAB-MG iron meteorite 910g end cut http://www.lunarrock.com/ocate/specimens/nm910a.jpg http://www.lunarrock.com/ocate/specimens/nm910b.jpg 208.2g cs 4mm http://www.lunarrock.com/ocate/specimens/dsc00004.jpg 191g cs 4mm http://www.lunarrock.com/ocate/specimens/dsc00005.jpg 162.9g ps 6.5mm http://www.lunarrock.com/ocate/specimens/dsc00008.jpg 162.8g cs 3.5mm http://www.lunarrock.com/ocate/specimens/dsc00009.jpg cs - complete slice ps - part slice I am asking just $4.00/g plus shipping, so if you are interested, please contact me Off-List. Thank you! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From lintonius at earthlink.net Tue Jun 2 12:07:48 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 09:07:48 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? References: <75388F73D77244CF867DA068D25F068E@D190TH71> Message-ID: <26602C41487744FA9192CDC30B222597@D190TH71> Thank you, Dennis. I found that switching my format from rich text (HTML) to plain text got my messages to go through. Give it a try. Linton ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Miller To: lintonius at earthlink.net Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 8:41 AM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? Linton, I have been unable to get on this blog, but if you would ask the group for some tuning tips for the Gold bug? I like my GB II but hear that there are some techneques for tuning for low metal meteorites... Thanks! Dennis > From: lintonius at earthlink.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:20:12 -0700 > Subject: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > > > Thank you, Michael. > That's very interesting. And quite helpful. > The Gold Bug I tends to go for a little less. > I've just quit working and may have enough free time now to do a little > hunting. :^) > Linton > > __________________________________ > > > michael cottingham mikewren at gilanet.com > Tue Jun 2 01:06:37 EDT 2009 > Previous message: [meteorite-list] - Fisher Gold Bug owners? > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > > > Hello, > > A quick side note about Fisher Gold Bug's I and II . I have both and > sometimes I can't tell the difference between the two. I use my old > one -GB1, 80% of the time. In fact, I found over 1 1/2 ounces of gold > nuggets this week. > > Better yet, in WEST, Texas I found nearly 200 grams of complete stones > with my Gold Bug 1, found them in the tall grass. Even though West > (Ash Creek), is an L6, the Gold Bug picked them up. I have 6 metal > detectors, and the Gold Bug I and II were the only ones that would > pick up the West meteorite. I would easily recommend an older Fisher > Gold Bug 1, make sure it comes with a manual though and expect to > spend some real time getting use to it. > > Best Wishes > > Michael Cottingham > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com Tue Jun 2 14:20:43 2009 From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (meteoritefinder at yahoo.com) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 11:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] " Superbolide " from 5-31-09 Message-ID: <61308.59959.qm@web39602.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello List, ? ? If you haven't already read about this "superbolide" from 5-31-09, you might find it interesting. This is from the spaceweather web site.? They have two links. One shows a VERY short movie of the event, and the other is a link for more info. " BLINDING FLASH: On May 31st, evening sky watchers in northern Poland were temporarily blinded by a sudden flash of light brighter than the full Moon. An automated camera in the town of Gniewowo captured this snapshot of the "un-night" sky: What happened? A meteoroid of unknown origin hit Earth's atmosphere and exploded. "It was a huge fireball, probably brighter than magnitude -13," reports Gniewowo resident Przemyslaw Zoladek. "The explosion occured at 20:48 UT and was observed by many casual witnesses and at least two Polish Fireball Network video stations." No one knows if fragments of the object reached the ground. " ? Best wishes, ? Robert Woolard From tektites at googlemail.com Tue Jun 2 15:31:03 2009 From: tektites at googlemail.com (Aubrey Whymark) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:31:03 +0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it makes it tempting to steal. 'Mineral specimen for research' is accurate and yet far less tempting to steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full value. When I have stuff sent to the Philippines I like a low value as again it reduces the risk of theft (although I have never experienced a problem). The main problem I have is that if a high value is declared then I have to pay import duties, and various other taxes and post office expenses that basically convert a bargain ebay purchase into very expense deal - almost to the point that it's not worth picking up, due to the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites and then had to pay $60 to the post office to get them! Aubrey From lintonius at earthlink.net Tue Jun 2 16:34:33 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 13:34:33 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] METEORITE signs (NOT an ad) Message-ID: <0D1BADE0B3BF4E3991A0FFD34D7EB77C@D190TH71> Cool. I just ordered a couple signs to alert people at star parties that I have meteorites on display. I've been taking a couple (or more) display cases along to my astronomy club's star parties, especially the public ones. But people often walk right by without noticing. These yellow signs, with engraved black print will fix that. In large letters across the top: METEORITES Smaller type, underneath: see and touch Rocks from Space! That should get their attention.! I just love showing them. I should have these in time for the Grand Canyon Star Party, one of my favorite events of the year. :^) Now all I have to do is set up well before dark! Linton From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 17:45:07 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 17:45:07 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] METEORITE signs (NOT an ad) In-Reply-To: <0D1BADE0B3BF4E3991A0FFD34D7EB77C@D190TH71> References: <0D1BADE0B3BF4E3991A0FFD34D7EB77C@D190TH71> Message-ID: Good luck Linton, let us know how it goes. I plan on doing the same thing very soon. :) Star parties + astronomers = meteorite customers. Regards and clear skies, MikeG On 6/2/09, Linton Rohr wrote: > Cool. > I just ordered a couple signs to alert people at star parties that I have > meteorites on display. I've been taking a couple (or more) display cases > along to my astronomy club's star parties, especially the public ones. But > people often walk right by without noticing. These yellow signs, with > engraved black print will fix that. > In large letters across the top: METEORITES > Smaller type, underneath: see and touch Rocks from Space! > That should get their attention.! I just love showing them. > I should have these in time for the Grand Canyon Star Party, one of my > favorite events of the year. :^) > Now all I have to do is set up well before dark! > Linton > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Tue Jun 2 18:34:41 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:34:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Aubrey and List, One package I received labelled "Mineral Specimens" was taxed as vitamins. Another package I received labelled "Meteorites" was taxed as antiques! I have never had a problem with (what the vast majority of sellers use) "Rock Specimens for Scientific Study", with little or no monetary value. For what it's worth, Pete ---------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:31:03 +0300 > From: tektites at googlemail.com > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments > > I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it makes it tempting > to steal. 'Mineral specimen for research' is accurate and yet far less > tempting to steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full value. When I > have stuff sent to the Philippines I like a low value as again it > reduces the risk of theft (although I have never experienced a > problem). The main problem I have is that if a high value is declared > then I have to pay import duties, and various other taxes and post > office expenses that basically convert a bargain ebay purchase into > very expense deal - almost to the point that it's not worth picking > up, due to the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites and then had to > pay $60 to the post office to get them! > > Aubrey > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 18:40:38 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 18:40:38 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Pete and List, When shipping meteorites outside the US, I declare them as "mineral specimens for study". Most of the overseas dealers I buy from mark their forms in a similar manner. I rarely, if ever, see "meteorite" on the declaration form. Best regards, MikeG On 6/2/09, Pete Pete wrote: > > > Hi, Aubrey and List, > > One package I received labelled "Mineral Specimens" was taxed as vitamins. > > Another package I received labelled "Meteorites" was taxed as antiques! > > I have never had a problem with (what the vast majority of sellers use) > "Rock Specimens for Scientific Study", with little or no monetary value. > > For what it's worth, > Pete > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:31:03 +0300 >> From: tektites at googlemail.com >> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your >> shipments >> >> I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it makes it tempting >> to steal. 'Mineral specimen for research' is accurate and yet far less >> tempting to steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full value. When I >> have stuff sent to the Philippines I like a low value as again it >> reduces the risk of theft (although I have never experienced a >> problem). The main problem I have is that if a high value is declared >> then I have to pay import duties, and various other taxes and post >> office expenses that basically convert a bargain ebay purchase into >> very expense deal - almost to the point that it's not worth picking >> up, due to the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites and then had to >> pay $60 to the post office to get them! >> >> Aubrey >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From gmhupe at htn.net Tue Jun 2 19:20:07 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:20:07 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Martian - NWA 5789 - The One That Got Away! Message-ID: <00D94CB4FF42457BB2857E23012ADB05@Gregor> Dear List Members, I would like to announce a new Martian meteorite, NWA 5789 (Provisional), the one that got away... mostly! NWA 5789 is currently under study and so far has been described as an Anomalous Shergottite Martian meteorite. This new meteorite has a very low Total Known Weight (TKW) of just 49 grams in three main fragments. I sent a small type sample to the University of Washington who confirmed (NWA 5789) to be a new Martian meteorite with a 99% certainty. Wanting 100% certainty, I sent an additional sample for oxygen isotope analysis, which proved it to be authentic. While waiting for this final analysis, I was negotiating with the Moroccan owner and we were almost at an agreement (or at least I thought). To my dismay, after informing the Moroccan that the material was indeed Martian, he never intended to sell me the material and was shopping it around, leaving me acquiring just 1.8 grams. He only wanted to use me for our quick scientific connections to get material confirmed and/or classified. This is one of the problems when working with Moroccans, you occasionally get the short end of the stick! Not knowing if the additional 47.2 grams would surface or ever be available to collectors, I asked that an NWA number be requested for the 1.8 grams and the next day, "NWA 5789" was assigned to this small amount. Approximately three weeks after this date, it was discovered that the extra 47.2 grams was purchased by a European group (Martin/Stefan). Upon learning of this news, it was agreed by all parties to include the extra 47.2 grams under the designation, "NWA 5789", for a TKW of 49 grams. To say that I was disappointed with the Moroccan for his greedy and underhanded actions would be an understatement, but at least the additional material has been accounted for! NWA 5789 resembles Yamato 980459, as commented on by a well-known planetary collector. Image of 30.5-gram NWA 5789 fragment: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa5789/nwa5789-30_5g.jpg Image of broken face of 1.328-gram fragment: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa5789/nwa5789interior.jpg The lead scientist wrote after examining the first sample of (NWA 5789): "GH-367 (NWA 5789) appears to be a very mafic (or even ultramafic) shergottite consisting of small olivine phenocrysts and small orthopyroxene phenocrysts in a finer grained groundmass composed mainly of prismatic pigeonite grains, chromite, pyrrhotite, and mesostasis regions composed of laminar intergrowths (some sheaf-like) of pigeonite, intermediate plagioclase (possibly NOT maskelynite), silica, ilmenite and merrillite." "This specimen is unlike any other, in that it has very little plagioclase, yet it is texturally different from "lherzolitic" shergottites. I believe that it may be a new type of Martian igneous rock." NOTE: You will notice a slight change in the weights in this email compared to the ones I quoted in my eight eBay auctions of NWA 5789, currently running. I just confirmed the total known weight with the classifying scientist. Best regards, Greg Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From astroroks at hotmail.com Tue Jun 2 20:24:32 2009 From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:24:32 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Testing 123 Message-ID: Just a quick test... _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Tue Jun 2 20:36:33 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 1:36:33 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Trying to contact Zelimir about Ensisheim Show, transport hotels etc. In-Reply-To: <8CBB182D7BDB6EB-F50-353C@webmail-mh31.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20090603013633.1I2V0.378.root@web07-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi, Has anyone got Zelimir's email address...or if you are out there reading this, Zelimir, I was wondering if the official flier for Ensisheim had been produced...or have I missed that post? Was thinking of coming and wanted to know your reccomendations for nearest airport, transport and hotels etc. Regards, Graham Ensor, UK From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Tue Jun 2 21:01:07 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 2:01:07 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Trying to contact Zelimir about Ensisheim Show, transport hotels etc. Message-ID: <20090603020107.RYVR4.449.root@web07-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi, Has anyone got Zelimir's email address...or if you are out there reading this, Zelimir, I was wondering if the official flier for Ensisheim had been produced...or have I missed that post? Was thinking of coming and wanted to know your reccomendations for nearest airport, transport and hotels etc. Regards, Graham Ensor, UK From John at Cabassi.net Tue Jun 2 22:16:25 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:16:25 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c9e3f1$4cbbf660$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2> G'Day List Ahh, mailing problems. It's interesting that this should pop up on the same day that I also received a package from Argentina. It possibly could have been from the same supplier. But my package was also tampered with, either by mechanical sources due to sorting or human influence, but whatever it was, it only managed to open half the package. Maybe the machine broke down or the human was interrupted. Either way, I did not lose anything. As for declarations, I don't sell, but from time to time, I give some away and I always put "No Value" and "Mineral Specimen" But for the first time, this package from Argentina had the full value and on the green declaration stamp it is written "Rocks for study without commercial value - meteorites" But the value was also included. This is the first time this has ever happened to me. Cheers John -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic Stone & Ironworks Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 3:41 PM To: Pete Pete Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments Hi Pete and List, When shipping meteorites outside the US, I declare them as "mineral specimens for study". Most of the overseas dealers I buy from mark their forms in a similar manner. I rarely, if ever, see "meteorite" on the declaration form. Best regards, MikeG On 6/2/09, Pete Pete wrote: > > > Hi, Aubrey and List, > > One package I received labelled "Mineral Specimens" was taxed as > vitamins. > > Another package I received labelled "Meteorites" was taxed as > antiques! > > I have never had a problem with (what the vast majority of sellers > use) "Rock Specimens for Scientific Study", with little or no monetary > value. > > For what it's worth, > Pete > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:31:03 +0300 >> From: tektites at googlemail.com >> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your >> shipments >> >> I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it makes it >> tempting to steal. 'Mineral specimen for research' is accurate and >> yet far less tempting to steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full >> value. When I have stuff sent to the Philippines I like a low value >> as again it reduces the risk of theft (although I have never >> experienced a problem). The main problem I have is that if a high >> value is declared then I have to pay import duties, and various other >> taxes and post office expenses that basically convert a bargain ebay >> purchase into very expense deal - almost to the point that it's not >> worth picking up, due to the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites >> and then had to pay $60 to the post office to get them! >> >> Aubrey >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at mcomemeteorite.it Wed Jun 3 00:11:47 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 06:11:47 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments Message-ID: <4a25f803.29.27b6.1024564064@webmaildh6.aruba.it> Depend, the unique time I have insured a pack this is go lost immediatly...never again Matteo ----- Original Message ----- Da : "John.L.Cabassi" A : "'meteoritelist meteoritelist'" Oggetto : Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments Data : Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:16:25 -0700 > G'Day List > Ahh, mailing problems. It's interesting that this should > pop up on the same day that I also received a package from > Argentina. It possibly could have been from the same > supplier. But my package was also tampered with, either by > mechanical sources due to sorting or human influence, but > whatever it was, it only managed to open half the package. > Maybe the machine broke down or the human was interrupted. > Either way, I did not lose anything. > > As for declarations, I don't sell, but from time to time, > I give some away and I always put "No Value" and "Mineral > Specimen" But for the first time, this package from > Argentina had the full value and on the green declaration > stamp it is written "Rocks for study without commercial > value - meteorites" But the value was also included. This > is the first time this has ever happened to me. > > Cheers > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On > Behalf Of Galactic Stone & Ironworks > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 3:41 PM > To: Pete Pete > Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please > INSURE your shipments > > > Hi Pete and List, > > When shipping meteorites outside the US, I declare them as > "mineral specimens for study". > > Most of the overseas dealers I buy from mark their forms > in a similar manner. > > I rarely, if ever, see "meteorite" on the declaration > form. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > On 6/2/09, Pete Pete wrote: > > > > > > Hi, Aubrey and List, > > > > One package I received labelled "Mineral Specimens" was > > taxed as vitamins. > > > > Another package I received labelled "Meteorites" was > > taxed as antiques! > > > > I have never had a problem with (what the vast majority > > of sellers use) "Rock Specimens for Scientific Study", > with little or no monetary > > > value. > > > > For what it's worth, > > Pete > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > >> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:31:03 +0300 > >> From: tektites at googlemail.com > >> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please > INSURE your >> shipments > >> > >> I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it > makes it >> tempting to steal. 'Mineral specimen for > research' is accurate and >> yet far less tempting to > steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full > > >> value. When I have stuff sent to the Philippines I like > a low value >> as again it reduces the risk of theft > (although I have never >> experienced a problem). The > main problem I have is that if a high >> value is > declared then I have to pay import duties, and various > other > > >> taxes and post office expenses that basically convert a > bargain ebay >> purchase into very expense deal - almost > to the point that it's not >> worth picking up, due to > the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites >> and then > had to pay $60 to the post office to get them! >> > >> Aubrey > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > __________________________________________________________ > > _______ Windows Live helps you keep up with all your > > friends, in one place. > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing > > list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > -- > ........................................................ > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > ......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing > list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.org Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com From MeteorHntr at aol.com Wed Jun 3 01:30:40 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 01:30:40 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Brenham Meteorite Offering Message-ID: Hello List, I am looking to generate some cash and so I am considering selling one of my larger Brenham specimens on Ebay. But before I list them there, I wanted to make a more private offering (read: avoid Ebay commissions) thus this announcement. I have several Brenham specimens in my inventory including, but not limited to: 351 pound Oriented Brenham Pallasite. This amazing specimen displays an awesome shield shape with a concave back side. I can only think of one large Brenham specimen nicer! 90 pound "Becky Stone" Oriented Brenham Pallasite featured "TV Star" from Travel Channel's Cash and Treasures Meteorite Hunting episode. An incredible bullet shaped meteorite specimen that has everything going for it. At this size, this is as good as it can get! Killer looking rock! 82 pound "Traveler" Brenham Pallasite featured "TV Star" from Travel Channel's Cash and Treasures Meteorite Hunting episode. Not oriented like the "Becky Stone" but priced lower due to the more rounded yet still very representative shape. Others are also available. Some photos can be seen here: _http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/_ (http://s361.photobucket.com/albums/oo52/stevearnoldpmh/) Serious inquiries only, please. Contact me off list for more information. Steve Arnold Arkansas **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml cntnew00000007) From marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl Wed Jun 3 01:56:42 2009 From: marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl (Marco Langbroek) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 07:56:42 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments Message-ID: <4A26109A.7090205@wanadoo.nl> > One package I received labelled "Mineral Specimens" was taxed as vitamins. > > Another package I received labelled "Meteorites" was taxed as antiques! I have had one small slice of Enstatite chondrite declared "pottery for decoration" (and taxed accordingly) by customs once :-p - Marco ----- Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) e-mail: dms at marcolangbroek.nl http://www.dmsweb.org http://www.marcolangbroek.nl ----- From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jun 3 03:38:22 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 00:38:22 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: AD #1 June: Auctions Ending Today and Sale In My Ebay Store References: Message-ID: Begin forwarded message: > From: michael cottingham > Date: June 2, 2009 10:01:13 PM GMT-07:00 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: AD #1 June: Auctions Ending Today and Sale In My Ebay Store > > > Hello, > > It has been awhile. I have been in the field a lot lately. Recovered > some new and interesting meteorites from Eastern New Mexico and > Texas. One should be ready soon and that is the unusual Griffith, > Ataxite. I was finally able to get the finder to let the rest of it > go and I was able to keep them from making jewelry out of it. Man oh > man that was a hard recovery. More on that when the slices are ready. > > Here are my auction Highlights for the week: > > (NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 50g, Really nice specimen! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346574379 > > New Fall- TAMDAKHT, H5, 34.4 gram, With Crust, Super specimen. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346574609 > > Superb WAGON MOUND, New Mexico, 162.12 gram **** Nice LARGE slice. I > owned all of this meteorite once upon a time! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346574934 > > Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 3.31g, Almost my last > specimen.... > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346575085 > > Rare & Low TKW, DAVY (B), Texas, H4, 3.31g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346575266 > > (New) Olivine Diogenite-NWA 5480, 8.91 gram, A Great Specimen! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346575568 > > (New) CV3, NWA 5546 From Africa, 24.93 gram, BIG PIECE! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346580117 > > Nice Slice of OUM DREYGA, Fall, H3-5, 32.79g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346581039 > > (NEW), LA LUZ, New Mexico, H4, LTKW, 4.19g, One Of My LAST > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346581214 > > Witnessed Fall THUATHE, Lesotho, 20.39 g, Really Nice Specimen! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346582206 > > NOYAN-BOGDO, L6, Rare Mongolian Fall- 0.18g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346583198 > > Rare Type, H3.5, WELLMAN (f), Texas, 4.92g, Actually a Beautiful > Part Slice-Take A Look! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346583981 > > Rare Carbonaceous CO3.6, NWA 1277, 1.60 gram > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346584344 > > Almost Out, NWA 4755, Diogenite, 2.04g, Actually this is the last > one... > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346585554 > > (NEW), NWA 5534, L5-6, 81.39 gram, Last Specimen to Offer! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346585840 > > (Ash Creek) or WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 1.98g- THIS IS BEAUTIFUL! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346588260 > > A very Rare EL3 From Africa, NWA 2965, 96g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200346589398 > > > There is also a sale in my ebay store that is most certainly worth a > look.... > > Best Wishes and Thanks > > Michael Cottingham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Wed Jun 3 04:07:55 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 10:07:55 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Insuring shipments: fors & againsts In-Reply-To: <4a25f803.29.27b6.1024564064@webmaildh6.aruba.it> References: <4a25f803.29.27b6.1024564064@webmaildh6.aruba.it> Message-ID: <200906030807.n5387rEo012905@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> I must agree with Matteo. Whenever I had insured some parcel containing mineral or meteorite samples (I insure on very, very rare occasions), although the packs were not lost, I had problems in - delays (packs quenched at the customs for long, long time), - taxes to pay (sometimes "prohibitive", though I agree it is a minor problem far less harmful than loosing the precious stuff) - and mostly through checking the contents by the "cautious" customs officers! Indeed, I use to say that they probably "play basketball" with our beloved (and fragile!) samples, by handling them without any care. Imagine the tiny slices resistance.... And this, not counting their wet and greasy hands running all throughout the fragile irons. Something to wake up for sure any dormant Lawrencite (or alike) disease! This being, and as I suggest to most of my suppliers (especially from the US) with whom I have business since decades, please just put on the customs green tag: "(geological) ROCKS for (scientific) study (research), no commercial value" (options in parenthesis) This means the supplier obviously should never write on the customs tag (declaration sheet) "METEORITE" but also not "MINERAL" either (mineral specimens are known by customs to have a commercial value!). Indeed, what resembles better a meteorite than a "simple geological ROCK" ?. A basalt is a basalt and I defy any customs officer to discern its Martian, Vestan or Terrestrial origin ("who is that Mrs Vesta ?") Believe me this always worked so far with 100% efficiency. Not any loss noticed for hundreds, perhaps thousands of transactions since...the early 1980's (mostly minerals at the time, as meteorites started to be sent that way since 1992) Well, this is of course a statistic statement, neither a suggestion, certainly not an advice (imagine my responsibility!) for any of you. I therefore also always specify in a selected way the procedure to adopt for each particular trade or purchase, in full agreement between the supplier. And I also respect the customer's suggestions (whatever they be) when I send my own stuff. Logically, if I suggest not to insure the parcel, it is entirely at my own responsibility and I fully accept to take the risk. Luckily this never resulted to a loss. Better, parcels always arrived rapidly without any checking (in 99+ % cases) Of course I may possibly benefit from my position as "teacher and researcher in a mineral chemistry lab", but yet, I also never got any loss or damage when parcels are sent at my private address as well (here again, as I live in a small village, I might be known as an eccentric or "lunatic" collector of "ugly rocks"...but still...). Understand me well, I neither prone or discourage insuring parcels, just wanting to describe some "fors and againsts" regarding insuring parcels containing our beloved and so precious ROCKS (from space!). Each case is different, risk zero does not exist and custom officer's behaviors are just unpredictable, especially in these crazy and uncertain times...! Good luck and thanks everybody for past and future comments on this important topic. Zelimir At 06:11 03/06/2009, M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote: >Depend, the unique time I have insured a pack this is go >lost immediatly...never again > >Matteo > > > >----- Original Message ----- >Da : "John.L.Cabassi" >A : "'meteoritelist meteoritelist'" > >Oggetto : Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please >INSURE your shipments >Data : Tue, 2 Jun 2009 19:16:25 -0700 > > > G'Day List > > Ahh, mailing problems. It's interesting that this should > > pop up on the same day that I also received a package from > > Argentina. It possibly could have been from the same > > supplier. But my package was also tampered with, either by > > mechanical sources due to sorting or human influence, but > > whatever it was, it only managed to open half the package. > > Maybe the machine broke down or the human was interrupted. > > Either way, I did not lose anything. > > > > As for declarations, I don't sell, but from time to time, > > I give some away and I always put "No Value" and "Mineral > > Specimen" But for the first time, this package from > > Argentina had the full value and on the green declaration > > stamp it is written "Rocks for study without commercial > > value - meteorites" But the value was also included. This > > is the first time this has ever happened to me. > > > > Cheers > > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On > > Behalf Of Galactic Stone & Ironworks > > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 3:41 PM > > To: Pete Pete > > Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please > > INSURE your shipments > > > > > > Hi Pete and List, > > > > When shipping meteorites outside the US, I declare them as > > "mineral specimens for study". > > > > Most of the overseas dealers I buy from mark their forms > > in a similar manner. > > > > I rarely, if ever, see "meteorite" on the declaration > > form. > > > > Best regards, > > > > MikeG > > > > > > On 6/2/09, Pete Pete wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, Aubrey and List, > > > > > > One package I received labelled "Mineral Specimens" was > > > taxed as vitamins. > > > > > > Another package I received labelled "Meteorites" was > > > taxed as antiques! > > > > > > I have never had a problem with (what the vast majority > > > of sellers use) "Rock Specimens for Scientific Study", > > with little or no monetary > > > > > value. > > > > > > For what it's worth, > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > >> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:31:03 +0300 > > >> From: tektites at googlemail.com > > >> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please > > INSURE your >> shipments > > >> > > >> I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it > > makes it >> tempting to steal. 'Mineral specimen for > > research' is accurate and >> yet far less tempting to > > steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full > > > > >> value. When I have stuff sent to the Philippines I like > > a low value >> as again it reduces the risk of theft > > (although I have never >> experienced a problem). The > > main problem I have is that if a high >> value is > > declared then I have to pay import duties, and various > > other > > > > >> taxes and post office expenses that basically convert a > > bargain ebay >> purchase into very expense deal - almost > > to the point that it's not >> worth picking up, due to > > the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites >> and then > > had to pay $60 to the post office to get them! >> > > >> Aubrey > > >> ______________________________________________ > > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __________________________________________________________ > > > _______ Windows Live helps you keep up with all your > > > friends, in one place. > > > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing > > > list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > -- > > ........................................................ > > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > > http://www.glassthrower.com > > ......................................................... > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing > > list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >M come Meteorite Meteoriti >info at mcomemeteorite.it >http://www.mcomemeteorite.it >http://www.mcomemeteorite.org >Mindat Gallery >http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html >ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici >http://www.chinellatophoto.com >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Wed Jun 3 04:09:09 2009 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:09:09 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49606F6F@gamma.ssl.atw> Lets not mention 'the declared value thing' , best not to 'rock' the boat... :) -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Aubrey Whymark Sent: 02 June 2009 20:31 To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it makes it tempting to steal. 'Mineral specimen for research' is accurate and yet far less tempting to steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full value. When I have stuff sent to the Philippines I like a low value as again it reduces the risk of theft (although I have never experienced a problem). The main problem I have is that if a high value is declared then I have to pay import duties, and various other taxes and post office expenses that basically convert a bargain ebay purchase into very expense deal - almost to the point that it's not worth picking up, due to the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites and then had to pay $60 to the post office to get them! Aubrey ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From meteoritekid at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 04:29:49 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 01:29:49 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49606F6F@gamma.ssl.atw> References: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49606F6F@gamma.ssl.atw> Message-ID: <93aaac890906030129s3d07ab56vc8200bd7a96f7a23@mail.gmail.com> Hola All, Indeed, our package from Argentina was opened as well; though nothing went missing, the box's integrity was compromised, as there was no tape holding the bottom flap closed - it had all been cut, and looked as though it might well have been opened. It wasn't a basic box with two sets of two flaps - there was some interlocking cardboard to hold it together, but a good drop would have done it in. There was no note from customs stating that it had been gone through and the internal wrapping/padding looked untouched, but who knows... Regards, Jason On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Mark Ford wrote: > Lets not mention 'the declared value thing' , best not to 'rock' the > boat... :) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Aubrey > Whymark > Sent: 02 June 2009 20:31 > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your > shipments > > I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it makes it tempting > to steal. 'Mineral specimen for research' is accurate and yet far less > tempting to steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full value. When I > have stuff sent to the Philippines I like a low value as again it > reduces the risk of theft (although I have never experienced a > problem). The main problem I have is that if a high value is declared > then I have to pay import duties, and various other taxes and post > office expenses that basically convert a bargain ebay purchase into > very expense deal - almost to the point that it's not worth picking > up, due to the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites and then had to > pay $60 to the post office to get them! > > Aubrey > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. > > GENERAL STATEMENT: > > Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. > > Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From info at meteorites.com.au Wed Jun 3 06:10:43 2009 From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 20:10:43 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: <000001c9e3f1$4cbbf660$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2> References: <000001c9e3f1$4cbbf660$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2> Message-ID: G'day list, I've personally received many packages from Argentina and never had a problem. But I do have an interesting story about some packages that went to the US. This is going back a few years ago but on one occasion I sent TWO IDENTICAL packages which were both meteorites to the US at the SAME TIME. They were both sent using ECI which is an EMS international door to door courier. It is also trackable on-line through every step of the way down to the minute that each process happens. The packages were both packed in the same size box and put into the satchel. Both were given the description "Mineral/rock specimen for study" but one was insured for approx AUS$1400 dollars and the other was given a $0 value. They all went through the same processes within minutes of each other. Cleared through Australia and sent to the US, arriving at LAX, going to customs and then... gone!!! The $0 value went through to the receiver without problems but the $1400 package completely disappeared at LAX! (Neither package had any documentation either.) Insurance covered the stolen package but that's small comfort when a unique specimen was lost! Cheers, Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "John.L.Cabassi" To: "'meteoritelist meteoritelist'" Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments > G'Day List > Ahh, mailing problems. It's interesting that this should pop up on the > same day that I also received a package from Argentina. It possibly > could have been from the same supplier. But my package was also tampered > with, either by mechanical sources due to sorting or human influence, > but whatever it was, it only managed to open half the package. Maybe the > machine broke down or the human was interrupted. Either way, I did not > lose anything. > > As for declarations, I don't sell, but from time to time, I give some > away and I always put "No Value" and "Mineral Specimen" But for the > first time, this package from Argentina had the full value and on the > green declaration stamp it is written "Rocks for study without > commercial value - meteorites" But the value was also included. This is > the first time this has ever happened to me. > > Cheers > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > Galactic Stone & Ironworks > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 3:41 PM > To: Pete Pete > Cc: meteoritelist meteoritelist > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your > shipments > > > Hi Pete and List, > > When shipping meteorites outside the US, I declare them as "mineral > specimens for study". > > Most of the overseas dealers I buy from mark their forms in a similar > manner. > > I rarely, if ever, see "meteorite" on the declaration form. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > On 6/2/09, Pete Pete wrote: >> >> >> Hi, Aubrey and List, >> >> One package I received labelled "Mineral Specimens" was taxed as >> vitamins. >> >> Another package I received labelled "Meteorites" was taxed as >> antiques! >> >> I have never had a problem with (what the vast majority of sellers >> use) "Rock Specimens for Scientific Study", with little or no monetary > >> value. >> >> For what it's worth, >> Pete >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------- >>> Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:31:03 +0300 >>> From: tektites at googlemail.com >>> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your >>> shipments >>> >>> I am always careful about declaring a meteorite - it makes it >>> tempting to steal. 'Mineral specimen for research' is accurate and >>> yet far less tempting to steal. Also I prefer not to declare the full > >>> value. When I have stuff sent to the Philippines I like a low value >>> as again it reduces the risk of theft (although I have never >>> experienced a problem). The main problem I have is that if a high >>> value is declared then I have to pay import duties, and various other > >>> taxes and post office expenses that basically convert a bargain ebay >>> purchase into very expense deal - almost to the point that it's not >>> worth picking up, due to the expense. I once bought $120 of tektites >>> and then had to pay $60 to the post office to get them! >>> >>> Aubrey >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. >> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jun 3 07:23:08 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:23:08 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: References: <000001c9e3f1$4cbbf660$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2> Message-ID: <001801c9e43d$ac496940$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hello list, maybe the Argentine problem is caused by the new legislation protecting meteorites from there? Shipping meteorites - nationally and internationally: It should be clear, what the receiver and the sender do want, for finding a compromise between safety, costs and speed. An insurance causes extra-fees. If internationally sent, it is not plausible, if a parcel has a high insurance value but a low or no value declared for customs. In that cases the receiver has to pay often taxes. A high value declared, can slow down the duration of the delivery and it invites to theft more than if nothing is given as value for the boring looking rock or lump of iron. (I remember a country, where, before it joined EU, people having to mail there, wrote even on normal letter: "Contains no money!"....). Some carriers explicitly refuse to insure something so irreplaceable like a meteorite. Although inconsistently, e.g. some firms refuse to do so from Germany to U.S., but the same firm allows an insurance in USA to Germany. Some firms refuse to insure parcels to certain countries. My recommendation: - Send your meteorites always registered, if the value isn't insignificant. Such shipments are better treated than standard shipping. - A very good possibility for overseas-shipments for very valuable specimens are the "courier" options, most carriers offer; of that type: delivery to overseas within 2 days, as these are handled with special care. - And finally with very, very, verrrrry valuable specimens, there the best option is, to deliver in person. Our experiences with shipping to U.S.: In all these years a single shipment was lost (the collector had moved). One parcel arrived after several months, but arrived. In general all shipments (if not a faster option was chosen) arrive in +/-7 days. One shipment out of 30-40 is delayed with 2-4 weeks for unknown reasons. The other direction to Germany, there, many of you dealers will remember, there was a period of troubles with German customs, where often shipments, also minor ones, were held for several weeks, without the recipient being informed, that the shipment is lying at their customs office. So that some collectors suspected the US-dealers not having sent anything. This situation seems to have improved now, as the recipients are informed nowadays within few days. So all in all I can say that at least the mail traffic between USA and Germany is safe and timely. Best! Martin From fujmon at mac.com Wed Jun 3 10:38:18 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:38:18 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments Message-ID: <3DA326B8-A460-48CE-8550-761DFA7D4906@mac.com> Aloha listees, I want to thank everyone who responded to my email. Many good points were brought to my attention, so I thought I would condense them into a sort of Reader's Digest version here: * Many points of origin and destination offer no insurance for shipped items. Unless you self-insure by some third-party underwriter ... seems like a hassle though. (FWIW, the country of origin of my shipment allowed insurance) * Some dealers or sellers understate the value of their shipments to reduce the tax burden on the buyer for international transactions. But it is always as a dual agreement between the buyer and seller before this is done. * A high value declared on a shipment can slow down the delivery and invite theft. * A very good option for overseas shipments for very valuable specimens are the courier services. A good option for very, very expensive shipments is to deliver in person (anyone for a trip to Hawaii? ;-) * Never declare that you are shipping meteorites or even minerals - it makes it too tempting to steal. A better strategy may be to declare "Geological specimen for research", which is accurate but less attractive to thieves. * Use Paypal or a major credit card for transactions. Most have buyer protection plans that can cover your loss (I don't know if I qualify, but I have inquired). * Purchases made on eBay or paid through Paypal are protected in the same manner (I don't know if I qualify but I have inquired - keep in mind that you can't double-dip from both eBay and Paypal). * Always ship registered mail because the mail has to be signed for each time it changes hands. No insurance is needed because it cannot get lost. (well my package didn't get lost - it made it right to me ... empty). * For those of you who were wondering: No, I wasn't buying illegal meteorites from Argentina - no Campos or Berduc. * Keep all receipts, you need tangible evidence of the cost that you paid (which could be problematic if you, the seller is also the finder of the stones). * On larger orders, the seller should recommend insurance to the buyer, who may elect not to do so at his/her own risk. But give the buyer the choice, make him an active participant in the shipment. * There are inherent risks in doing business on the internet - caveat emptor! The current status of my lost shipment of meteorites from Argentina is that I filed a Dispute with Paypal, which I escalated to a Claim. At this point, Paypal has contacted the seller for information regarding the shipment tracking information, after which it will review the transaction and make a determination. Fingers crossed. Mahalo nui loa (thank you very much) for everyone's responses and offers of sympathy. Sympathy is okay, but my rocks would be better, and since I will probably never see them in my collection, then the money I paid to procure them would be a reasonable outcome that I can accept. I hope this thread, and the information contained therein are of use to both sellers and buyers. The best of luck to everyone in all of your transactions and rock on! gary On Jun 1, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Gary Fujihara wrote: > Aloha, > > I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 > worth of meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from > Argentina. I had noticed the package felt light, but discovered > that the US postal service is not responsible for thefts of the > contents of international mailed items that are not insured. This > shipment was not insured and so I will in all likelihood take the > full brunt of this loss. > > Thievery by customs officials, foreign and domestic postal workers > and other individuals or organized groups inside and outside the US > is a possibility! I believe most packages arrive at their > destinations with their contents intact, but feel it is negligent > and at the very least unconscionable not to insure shipments at or > above the full value of the contents. I know it costs more to do > so, but please consider insurance especially for foreign shipments. > Mailing specimen cards and paperwork separately from the meteorites > can also prevent thieves from knowing what those "Mineral Samples" > are. > > Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? > I personally don't think so, unless I was given a choice and elected > not to insure. I would hope that the seller (an IMCA member who, to > his credit is working with me) would have a sudden rush of > conscience and compensate, or share the loss with me, since his act > of omission provides me with little if any recourse. What are my > rights, and what can I do? Do other dealers insure their > shipments? What is SOP? > > Gary Fujihara > AstroDay Institute > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > http://astroday.net > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From cdtucson at cox.net Wed Jun 3 12:28:21 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 9:28:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: <3DA326B8-A460-48CE-8550-761DFA7D4906@mac.com> Message-ID: <20090603122821.6P21H.210978.imail@fed1rmwml45> Gary, I don't think you get how registered mail works. It is far better than certified mail. First of all registered mail must be secured using paper tape which cannot be removed and the tape is date stamped all along every edge of the tape (this assures that the tape has not been tampered with). Then as added security the mail has to be signed for every time it changes hands. If at any point in the process the package has been opened or tampered with the process ends and the last person to sign for item is held responsible. This assures that there can be no corruption. These carriers guard this mail with their life. So, registered mail is a safe way to go and I trust this so much that I never even buy insurance. No need. I hope this clears it up. Aloha to you too. Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 ---- Gary Fujihara wrote: > Aloha listees, > > I want to thank everyone who responded to my email. Many good points > were brought to my attention, so I thought I would condense them into > a sort of Reader's Digest version here: > > * Many points of origin and destination offer no insurance for shipped > items. Unless you self-insure by some third-party underwriter ... > seems like a hassle though. (FWIW, the country of origin of my > shipment allowed insurance) > > * Some dealers or sellers understate the value of their shipments to > reduce the tax burden on the buyer for international transactions. > But it is always as a dual agreement between the buyer and seller > before this is done. > > * A high value declared on a shipment can slow down the delivery and > invite theft. > > * A very good option for overseas shipments for very valuable > specimens are the courier services. A good option for very, very > expensive shipments is to deliver in person (anyone for a trip to > Hawaii? ;-) > > * Never declare that you are shipping meteorites or even minerals - it > makes it too tempting to steal. A better strategy may be to declare > "Geological specimen for research", which is accurate but less > attractive to thieves. > > * Use Paypal or a major credit card for transactions. Most have buyer > protection plans that can cover your loss (I don't know if I qualify, > but I have inquired). > > * Purchases made on eBay or paid through Paypal are protected in the > same manner (I don't know if I qualify but I have inquired - keep in > mind that you can't double-dip from both eBay and Paypal). > > * Always ship registered mail because the mail has to be signed for > each time it changes hands. No insurance is needed because it cannot > get lost. (well my package didn't get lost - it made it right to > me ... empty). > > * For those of you who were wondering: No, I wasn't buying illegal > meteorites from Argentina - no Campos or Berduc. > > * Keep all receipts, you need tangible evidence of the cost that you > paid (which could be problematic if you, the seller is also the finder > of the stones). > > * On larger orders, the seller should recommend insurance to the > buyer, who may elect not to do so at his/her own risk. But give the > buyer the choice, make him an active participant in the shipment. > > * There are inherent risks in doing business on the internet - caveat > emptor! > > The current status of my lost shipment of meteorites from Argentina is > that I filed a Dispute with Paypal, which I escalated to a Claim. At > this point, Paypal has contacted the seller for information regarding > the shipment tracking information, after which it will review the > transaction and make a determination. Fingers crossed. Mahalo nui > loa (thank you very much) for everyone's responses and offers of > sympathy. Sympathy is okay, but my rocks would be better, and since I > will probably never see them in my collection, then the money I paid > to procure them would be a reasonable outcome that I can accept. > > I hope this thread, and the information contained therein are of use > to both sellers and buyers. The best of luck to everyone in all of > your transactions and rock on! > > gary > > > On Jun 1, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Gary Fujihara wrote: > > > Aloha, > > > > I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 > > worth of meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from > > Argentina. I had noticed the package felt light, but discovered > > that the US postal service is not responsible for thefts of the > > contents of international mailed items that are not insured. This > > shipment was not insured and so I will in all likelihood take the > > full brunt of this loss. > > > > Thievery by customs officials, foreign and domestic postal workers > > and other individuals or organized groups inside and outside the US > > is a possibility! I believe most packages arrive at their > > destinations with their contents intact, but feel it is negligent > > and at the very least unconscionable not to insure shipments at or > > above the full value of the contents. I know it costs more to do > > so, but please consider insurance especially for foreign shipments. > > Mailing specimen cards and paperwork separately from the meteorites > > can also prevent thieves from knowing what those "Mineral Samples" > > are. > > > > Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? > > I personally don't think so, unless I was given a choice and elected > > not to insure. I would hope that the seller (an IMCA member who, to > > his credit is working with me) would have a sudden rush of > > conscience and compensate, or share the loss with me, since his act > > of omission provides me with little if any recourse. What are my > > rights, and what can I do? Do other dealers insure their > > shipments? What is SOP? > > > > Gary Fujihara > > AstroDay Institute > > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > > http://astroday.net > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > Gary Fujihara > AstroDay Institute > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > http://astroday.net > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mexicodoug at aim.com Wed Jun 3 16:01:27 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:01:27 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: <20090603122821.6P21H.210978.imail@fed1rmwml45> Message-ID: <8CBB29D32AF6D29-DC4-14CE@FWM-M31.sysops.aol.com> Carl said: "First of all registered mail must be secured using paper tape which cannot be removed and the tape is date stamped all along every edge of the tape (this assures that the tape has not been tampered with)." Martin said: "(I remember a country, where, before it joined EU, people having to mail there, wrote even on normal letter: "Contains no money!"....)." Gary said: "Never declare that you are shipping meteorites or even minerals - it makes it too tempting to steal. " Dear List: As countries vary in customs (=practices), it is necessary to determine mailing strategy on a case by case basis on what works best - and who better than your foreign correspondent, a kindred soul, who knows his country and enters in good faith into what both hope is a fun transaction. And then to follow through as ethically as possible on both sides - not resorting to loopholes with PayPal, etc., when dealing with friends. Speaking of different worlds, for example, this is a Gold Bug Type 1 here: http://www.diogenite.com/kafer.jpg Carl: This is the States' procedure. Unfortunately, not all countries follow this protocol, whether it is by international convention or not. In Mexico, the user tapes it up with personal tape (whatever kind (s)he has), it does not need to be "hermetically sealed", and the agents at the post office window wonder about you if you ask for any special treatment or try to rock the boat on how they do it. Well, we don't pay the exorbitant over USD 10 to register a package, like American mailings - and it still provides extra security. If your parcel has value to/from here, the rule is, do everything you can so that no one knows it has value. If someone know$ or think$, it is very likely that your package will become theirs. Gary: As for writing "Geological Samples for Study", I am scratching my head on that one, not because I'm a purist, but rather what the implied representation if you ever got into a mess with the specimen. Perhaps "Sample for Geological Studies" :-) Personally I have never had a problem when writing "mineral". But as Zelimir mentioned, results may vary... And to Martin: Not much has changed since 2007 in the big scheme of things and I bet things still get pilfered even there. In our part of the world, we do write "contains no cash" on envelopes often and as a matter of course and without any consternation ... Theft is not a characteristic of only lower rated GDP countries, I will guaranty to you that theft will be around in the year 3009 if people are still around to observe it,though controls hopefully good. As for the fine print on PayPal that has been the menace to many upstanding dealers which no one has dealt with head on: This thread turned into general guidelines. Martin came closest to addressing the original problem with the Argentine mailing problem of the original post when he said: "It should be clear, what the receiver and the sender do want, for finding a compromise between safety, costs and speed." But he forgot to emphasize "...and RESPONSIBILITY". There is nothing wrong with discussing responsibility even though it could be interpreted the wrong way or yikes, be abused once set in stone - i.e., demotivate a transaction from an aspiring collector. But let's face it: The price influences everything. If someone is taking risk, he should get a favorable break on $ in the deal to compensate for that risk. That's how the world seems to work when buying/selling everything else. Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: cdtucson at cox.net To: MeteorList ; Gary Fujihara Sent: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:28 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments Gary, I don't think you get how registered mail works. It is far better than certified mail. First of all registered mail must be secured using paper tape which cannot be removed and the tape is date stamped all along every edge of the tape (this assures that the tape has not been tampered with). Then as added security the mail has to be signed for every time it changes hands. If at any point in the process the package has been opened or tampered with the process ends and the last person to sign for item is held responsible. This assures that there can be no corruption. These carriers guard this mail with their life. So, registered mail is a safe way to go and I trust this so much that I never even buy insurance. No need. I hope this clears it up. Aloha to you too. Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 ---- Gary Fujihara wrote: > Aloha listees, > > I want to thank everyone who responded to my email. Many good points > were brought to my attention, so I thought I would condense them into > a sort of Reader's Digest version here: > > * Many points of origin and destination offer no insurance for shipped > items. Unless you self-insure by some third-party underwriter ... > seems like a hassle though. (FWIW, the country of origin of my > shipment allowed insurance) > > * Some dealers or sellers understate the value of their shipments to > reduce the tax burden on the buyer for international transactions. > But it is always as a dual agreement between the buyer and seller > before this is done. > > * A high value declared on a shipment can slow down the delivery and > invite theft. > > * A very good option for overseas shipments for very valuable > specimens are the courier services. A good option for very, very > expensive shipments is to deliver in person (anyone for a trip to > Hawaii? ;-) > > * Never declare that you are shipping meteorites or even minerals - it > makes it too tempting to steal. A better strategy may be to declare > "Geological specimen for research", which is accurate but less > attractive to thieves. > > * Use Paypal or a major credit card for transactions. Most have buyer > protection plans that can cover your loss (I don't know if I qualify, > but I have inquired). > > * Purchases made on eBay or paid through Paypal are protected in the > same manner (I don't know if I qualify but I have inquired - keep in > mind that you can't double-dip from both eBay and Paypal). > > * Always ship registered mail because the mail has to be signed for > each time it changes hands. No insurance is needed because it cannot > get lost. (well my package didn't get lost - it made it right to > me ... empty). > > * For those of you who were wondering: No, I wasn't buying illegal > meteorites from Argentina - no Campos or Berduc. > > * Keep all receipts, you need tangible evidence of the cost that you > paid (which could be problematic if you, the seller is also the finder > of the stones). > > * On larger orders, the seller should recommend insurance to the > buyer, who may elect not to do so at his/her own risk. But give the > buyer the choice, make him an active participant in the shipment. > > * There are inherent risks in doing business on the internet - caveat > emptor! > > The current status of my lost shipment of meteorites from Argentina is > that I filed a Dispute with Paypal, which I escalated to a Claim. At > this point, Paypal has contacted the seller for information regarding > the shipment tracking information, after which it will review the > transaction and make a determination. Fingers crossed. Mahalo nui > loa (thank you very much) for everyone's responses and offers of > sympathy. Sympathy is okay, but my rocks would be better, and since I > will probably never see them in my collection, then the money I paid > to procure them would be a reasonable outcome that I can accept. > > I hope this thread, and the information contained therein are of use > to both sellers and buyers. The best of luck to everyone in all of > your transactions and rock on! > > gary > > > On Jun 1, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Gary Fujihara wrote: > > > Aloha, > > > > I have been the victim of theft after discovering that over $1600 > > worth of meteorites were missing from a shipment I received from > > Argentina. I had noticed the package felt light, but discovered > > that the US postal service is not responsible for thefts of the > > contents of international mailed items that are not insured. This > > shipment was not insured and so I will in all likelihood take the > > full brunt of this loss. > > > > Thievery by customs officials, foreign and domestic postal workers > > and other individuals or organized groups inside and outside the US > > is a possibility! I believe most packages arrive at their > > destinations with their contents intact, but feel it is negligent > > and at the very least unconscionable not to insure shipments at or > > above the full value of the contents. I know it costs more to do > > so, but please consider insurance especially for foreign shipments. > > Mailing specimen cards and paperwork separately from the meteorites > > can also prevent thieves from knowing what those "Mineral Samples" > > are. > > > > Is it fair for me, the buyer to take the loss alone for this theft? > > I personally don't think so, unless I was given a choice and elected > > not to insure. I would hope that the seller (an IMCA member who, to > > his credit is working with me) would have a sudden rush of > > conscience and compensate, or share the loss with me, since his act > > of omission provides me with little if any recourse. What are my > > rights, and what can I do? Do other dealers insure their > > shipments? What is SOP? > > > > Gary Fujihara > > AstroDay Institute > > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > > http://astroday.net > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > Gary Fujihara > AstroDay Institute > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > http://astroday.net > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed Jun 3 16:49:48 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:49:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - June 3, 2009 Message-ID: <200906032049.NAA27777@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES June 3, 2009 o Central Peak Gullies http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013071_1365 o Spider Features in the South Polar Region http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013049_0950 o Two Craters South of Sirenum Fossae http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012997_1445 o Central Peak Gullies of Lohse Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012926_1365 o Dome and Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011775_2230 o Candor Mensa Ferric Oxide and Sulfate Section http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011728_1735 o Fresh Impact Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011619_2250 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From epgrondine at yahoo.com Wed Jun 3 17:31:28 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 14:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Is 3He a reliable comet impact marker? Message-ID: <339674.25890.qm@web36905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all - Now that the shock has dissipated, I ask again if anyone knows if 3He is a reliable cometary or comet marker? E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Jun 3 19:43:00 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 01:43:00 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Type of Martian Rock - limburgitic NWA 5789 - ......and came back! Message-ID: <00ec01c9e4a5$08096520$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Dear List Members, Dear Greg, indeed, the new Mars landed at us. We acquired the fragments as good candidates for a fresh Martian, not being aware of the enthralling results, which the first analyses of the first sample had yielded meanwhile. And what for results! As you went public, I think it is o.k. to add some more? Under reserve of course, as the first type specimen was to tiny, that the full methodic palette could have been applied. But seems, that NWA 5789 could be a new type of Mars rock. Virtually it contains almost no plagioclase, nor maskelynite, it resembles the primitive Yamato 980458/497, however it is more ultramafic than these. As a terrestrial pendant, it is similar to limburgite. (like it once also was identified by the ?Spirit?-rover, See G.G.Kochemasov: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006cosp...36..796K ) Here were the three stones, before cutting: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-4kl.jpg Note how foamy and bubbly the fusion crust is and how extremely glossy! http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-2kl.jpg Cut surfaces reveal a relatively unweathered material, peppered with small olivines. http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-2.487g.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-1.592g.jpg Well, unfortunately the total weight is with only 49 grams very limited. After the deposit mass was removed, after a few Mars-specialists and institutes from our address-book were supplied and after some donations were done, we have left following specimens: The main piece, a cut stone, weighing 10.682grams http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-10.682g-end1.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-10.682g-end2.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-10.682g-end3.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-10.682g-end4.jpg And an uncut fragment of 5.684g: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-5.684g-fragment1.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-5.684g-fragment2.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-5.684g-fragment3.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/nwa5789-5.684g-fragment4.jpg As the tkw is so small and the material so unique, we would like to avoid to produce more cut loss in slicing the remaining pieces further. And as it most probably represents a new and so far unsampled type of Martian, please understand, that we have to offer these remaining pieces to institutes and researchers first, and that we currently have nothing for sale. Only after the science side will have taken their advantage, then there might be still an opportunity for you to acquire a sample and more could be cut. You can already apply for that option, though we can't promise yet, whether something will be left. Finally we want to express our thanks, to Norbert Classen, who informed us about the amazing results firstly and at all, to Greg Hupe who allowed for the pieces being set together again under the existing, under his number and to Dr. Irving, who studied the first sample and arranged further analyses with the additional material, so that we all can hope for further results about this find, which certainly ranks among the most interesting Martians found in this decade. Though, last and certainly not least, the greatest thanks have to go to our Moroccan colleagues. It is amazing, what and how many important finds they still bring to light under more and more difficult conditions. As I still remember the pre-desert-times it certainly isn't said too much, if one states, that the work of the many nameless searchers and the specialists down there, being able to recognise the most exotic messengers from space, commenced a new epoch in meteoritics. In only one decade, they even achieved to trump the so fruitful Antarctic programs, making the Sahara to the most important source of new meteorites of our days. They profoundly changed the world of meteorite collecting and they changed the world of meteorite science. That we never should forget and for that they have earned our thanks and our respect. Martian Greetings! Stefan & Martin Stefan Ralew & Martin Altmann Chladni's Heirs Munich - Berlin Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors http://www.chladnis-heirs.com -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Hupe Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. Juni 2009 01:20 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] New Martian - NWA 5789 - The One That Got Away! Dear List Members, I would like to announce a new Martian meteorite, NWA 5789 (Provisional), the one that got away... mostly! NWA 5789 is currently under study and so far has been described as an Anomalous Shergottite Martian meteorite. This new meteorite has a very low Total Known Weight (TKW) of just 49 grams in three main fragments. I sent a small type sample to the University of Washington who confirmed (NWA 5789) to be a new Martian meteorite with a 99% certainty. Wanting 100% certainty, I sent an additional sample for oxygen isotope analysis, which proved it to be authentic. While waiting for this final analysis, I was negotiating with the Moroccan owner and we were almost at an agreement (or at least I thought). To my dismay, after informing the Moroccan that the material was indeed Martian, he never intended to sell me the material and was shopping it around, leaving me acquiring just 1.8 grams. He only wanted to use me for our quick scientific connections to get material confirmed and/or classified. This is one of the problems when working with Moroccans, you occasionally get the short end of the stick! Not knowing if the additional 47.2 grams would surface or ever be available to collectors, I asked that an NWA number be requested for the 1.8 grams and the next day, "NWA 5789" was assigned to this small amount. Approximately three weeks after this date, it was discovered that the extra 47.2 grams was purchased by a European group (Martin/Stefan). Upon learning of this news, it was agreed by all parties to include the extra 47.2 grams under the designation, "NWA 5789", for a TKW of 49 grams. To say that I was disappointed with the Moroccan for his greedy and underhanded actions would be an understatement, but at least the additional material has been accounted for! NWA 5789 resembles Yamato 980459, as commented on by a well-known planetary collector. Image of 30.5-gram NWA 5789 fragment: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa5789/nwa5789-30_5g.jpg Image of broken face of 1.328-gram fragment: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa5789/nwa5789interior.jpg The lead scientist wrote after examining the first sample of (NWA 5789): "GH-367 (NWA 5789) appears to be a very mafic (or even ultramafic) shergottite consisting of small olivine phenocrysts and small orthopyroxene phenocrysts in a finer grained groundmass composed mainly of prismatic pigeonite grains, chromite, pyrrhotite, and mesostasis regions composed of laminar intergrowths (some sheaf-like) of pigeonite, intermediate plagioclase (possibly NOT maskelynite), silica, ilmenite and merrillite." "This specimen is unlike any other, in that it has very little plagioclase, yet it is texturally different from "lherzolitic" shergottites. I believe that it may be a new type of Martian igneous rock." NOTE: You will notice a slight change in the weights in this email compared to the ones I quoted in my eight eBay auctions of NWA 5789, currently running. I just confirmed the total known weight with the classifying scientist. Best regards, Greg Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Wed Jun 3 19:45:02 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:45:02 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hot Meteorite? Message-ID: <4A270AFE.3010909@meteoritesusa.com> Um.... :o| `Object that fell from sky was a meteorite' KANPUR: "Meteorite is a rocky material which enters into earth's atmosphere from outside the earth (for eg, Mars) whereas numerous small and big rocks circulating in between the planets Mars and Jupiter are known as asteroids," said Prof Harish Chandra Verma of department of Physics of IIT-K while talking to TOI, specifying the difference between a meteorite and an asteroid. Prof Verma ruled out the possibility of the stone being an asteroid as reported in some newspapers and emphatically remarked that the initial study of the piece of the rock done on Wednesday confirms that it's a meteorite. Usually such pieces of rock (debris) come from asteroid belt only but sometimes they may very well be a part of other celestial bodies also. Prof Verma was referring to the incident of May 28, when a 1 kg stone resembling a meteorite fell down from the sky about 12 noon and left the people of the Karimatti hamlet in Hamirpur district amazed and puzzled. The stone which is ten inches in length and five inches in width was put in water to bring down its high temperature. Eyewitness to the entire incident, Mannu Lal, a villager was the first to observe this heavenly body. In no time, the news of the incident had spread like a wild fire in the entire village. The matter was then referred to the administration, which took the stone in its possession. Prof Verma, travelled 200 km and brought the stone to IIT-K on Tuesday last for detailed study. Visibly excited with the discovery of the magnetic stone, Prof Verma shared his experience and said, "It's confirmed now that it is a meteorite due to its properties. As it was getting attracted towards a magnet and also the whole of the stone was covered with a black layer it gave us an idea of it being a meteorite.'' "Genuine scientific tests done on this meteorite will help us to know more about the secrets of the solar system like what was the composition of the solar system when it was formed, what was the early solar system like etc," he further said. Prof Verma went on to say that the researchers from Physical Research Lab, Ahmedabad, University of Jodhpur, Bhaba Atomic Research Centre (BARC) and IIT-K will carry out tests in collaboration. SOURCE: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Kanpur/Object-that-fell-from-sky-was-a-meteorite/articleshow/4614002.cms -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From tektites at googlemail.com Wed Jun 3 21:48:38 2009 From: tektites at googlemail.com (Aubrey Whymark) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 04:48:38 +0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rob Elliott's Auction in the press Message-ID: Hi Old news in the British and Irish Meteorite Society (sorry can't post on that list for some reason). New news in the Daily Mail - Rob Elliott is auctioning off his collection. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1190626/Meteorite.html Regards, Aubrey From almitt at kconline.com Wed Jun 3 21:54:40 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 21:54:40 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments In-Reply-To: <3DA326B8-A460-48CE-8550-761DFA7D4906@mac.com> References: <3DA326B8-A460-48CE-8550-761DFA7D4906@mac.com> Message-ID: Hi Gary and all, Good thread! Just a note to dealers who are licensed merchants and are in business, we had one dealer on the list who recommended to a buyer he should have insurance on his package. The buyer declined the insurance. The package was lost and when the buyer demanded his money back the dealer said no because he had decline the insurance. The buyer then filed a suit against the dealer and the court's judgment was the dealer is ultimately responsible for the package until it reaches the buyer. The dealer was out the value of the specimen, shipping, and court costs!! This was a USA case so don't know about overseas orders. I know that many dealers were having trouble when shipping to Italy several years back. This is when I decline to ship anything there. The post office would ship global priority just about anywhere else but Italy so it told me there was a problem within that country. Not to put down the highly respected people there on this list. Just the way it is. Buyers have certain rights with credit cards but right now I am fighting with an old card company I dealt with as after three years someone tried to charge something to that old account. They reactivated it (can you believe that) and just because they have my information they are saying I have to pay up. I have a little surprise coming there way if they don't start making sense. Best to all! --AL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Fujihara" To: "MeteorList" Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Dealers, Sellers: Please INSURE your shipments >* On larger orders, the seller should recommend insurance to the buyer, >who may elect not to do so at his/her own risk. But give the buyer the >choice, make him an active participant in the shipment. From tektites at googlemail.com Wed Jun 3 22:05:32 2009 From: tektites at googlemail.com (Aubrey Whymark) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 05:05:32 +0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rob Elliott's Meteorite Auction in the press Message-ID: Hi Old news in the British and Irish Meteorite Society (sorry can't post on that list for some reason). New news in the Daily Mail - Rob Elliott is auctioning off his collection. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1190626/Meteorite.html Regards, Aubrey From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Thu Jun 4 03:48:12 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 00:48:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] devinette , what this rock can be Message-ID: <46027.22864.qm@web62004.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hi all and sabah al kheir, bonjour, some photo to start the day with thinking what this could be, the gambling problem we have in ?morroco, you can gamble on a stone and it could turn to be good and you can gamble and you loose your money, this is my job i do it each? day gambling on rock before labs make analysis , try to?make a devinette of what this could be, i will be back soon soon with the news http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/ all the best aziz the habibiest one ?habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Thu Jun 4 09:10:06 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:10:06 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim: last news, last call In-Reply-To: References: <200905281036.n4SAagj2012026@post.webmailer.de> <200905281239.n4SCdIbC002803@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <200906041309.n54D9qbR006474@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hello List, The latest news about the 2009 edition of the Ensisheim show can be found in two flyers (in English and in French) now included in the two following web sites: www.ville-ensisheim.fr or http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr If you can't find them, ba patient as it could still take a couple of hours for their installment. Should you wish to receive directly the flyer as attachment, just drop me a mail (specify if you wish the English or French version). Also, if you have trouble in clicking these sites, feel free to ask me directly to send you the final flyer. Should you have specific questions or requirements regarding the show organization (tables, dinner...reservations) and/or its scientific parts (consignment room...) contact me by mail (I am also available on phone but on erratic hours) If you need some general info about the show side-enjoyments, be aware that right now Jean-Marie Blosser is out of mail (reason: huge alien-virus invasion!) so contact me and I'll see if I can help or I'll forward your requests in the appropriate direction. For all concerning accommodation, please contact directly your hotel reception desk (they use to speak quite many languages) Two important warnings: 1) As every year, I have reserved places and tables for our former guests who use to attend (almost) every year. Most of them had confirmed their reservations but some of them still remain silent!! Now it is more than time for them to confirm their wish to reserve their usual place. In case they can't do it this year, I'd very much appreciate if they could confirm their withdrawal, this will greatly facilitate my table re-distribution. If I don't hear from them by next Monday June 8, I will reserve me the right to attribute their usual places to new dealers who are on a waiting list. 2) The Friday dinner-party requires reservation. If you wish to attend, just send me one name and the number of persons. Specifying the menu (poultry or game) is optional but could help the cook to be efficient and smooth in serving promptly. ? - As the latest news, we will have on display about 10 very famous meteorites from the meteorite collection of the "National Museums Scotland". To cite a few: - Orgueil (19 g fragments in vial, from the old Saeman collection, Paris) - Strathmore, 1166 g (!). A hammer! - Weston, 391 g (!) - Barwell, 65 g - L'Aigle, 198 g - Cold Bokkeveld, 66 g - Zagami, 72 g - Crumlin, 99 g and...last but not least, - Mauritius (!!), 197 g (!) (who had ever seen a fragment ?) ?- The consignment room promises to be very rich in interesting offers as not less than 15 different persons announced various weird samples they will bring along (sometimes from very far away) for sale. To cite one example, we'll have a 30% crusted (!) 357 g Sulagiri (new official name for "Hosur"), this LL6 that fell in late 2008 in the middle of a village in India. Parhaps also its 721 g 65% crusted "big brother"! Competitive wholesale prices announced for these two! And many, many more. Welcome all to the 3 days "funny big blast" ! (yes, you read the flyer correctly: this year all starts on Friday!) Best wishes to all, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 10:14:34 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 10:14:34 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim: last news, last call In-Reply-To: <200906041309.n54D9qbR006474@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> References: <200905281036.n4SAagj2012026@post.webmailer.de> <200905281239.n4SCdIbC002803@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> <200906041309.n54D9qbR006474@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: Good luck and safe travels to the lucky people who attend the show this year. I look forward to seeing new photos and hearing the stories told afterwards. :) BTW - is Sulagiri/Hosur a "hammer" ?? If so, I want some! LOL :) Best regards, MikeG On 6/4/09, Zelimir Gabelica wrote: > Hello List, > > The latest news about the 2009 edition of the > Ensisheim show can be found in two flyers (in > English and in French) now included in the two following web sites: > > www.ville-ensisheim.fr > or > http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr > > If you can't find them, ba patient as it could > still take a couple of hours for their installment. > > Should you wish to receive directly the flyer as > attachment, just drop me a mail (specify if you > wish the English or French version). > Also, if you have trouble in clicking these > sites, feel free to ask me directly to send you the final flyer. > > Should you have specific questions or > requirements regarding the show organization > (tables, dinner...reservations) and/or its > scientific parts (consignment room...) contact me > by mail (I am also available on phone but on erratic hours) > > If you need some general info about the show > side-enjoyments, be aware that right now > Jean-Marie Blosser is out of mail (reason: huge > alien-virus invasion!) so contact me and I'll see > if I can help or I'll forward your requests in the appropriate direction. > > For all concerning accommodation, please contact > directly your hotel reception desk (they use to speak quite many languages) > > Two important warnings: > > 1) As every year, I have reserved places and > tables for our former guests who use to attend (almost) every year. > Most of them had confirmed their reservations but > some of them still remain silent!! > > Now it is more than time for them to confirm > their wish to reserve their usual place. > In case they can't do it this year, I'd very much > appreciate if they could confirm their > withdrawal, this will greatly facilitate my table re-distribution. > If I don't hear from them by next Monday June 8, > I will reserve me the right to attribute their > usual places to new dealers who are on a waiting list. > > 2) The Friday dinner-party requires reservation. > If you wish to attend, just send me one name and the number of persons. > Specifying the menu (poultry or game) is optional > but could help the cook to be efficient and smooth in serving promptly. > > ? - As the latest news, we will have on display > about 10 very famous meteorites from the > meteorite collection of the "National Museums Scotland". > To cite a few: > - Orgueil (19 g fragments in vial, from the old Saeman collection, Paris) > - Strathmore, 1166 g (!). A hammer! > - Weston, 391 g (!) > - Barwell, 65 g > - L'Aigle, 198 g > - Cold Bokkeveld, 66 g > - Zagami, 72 g > - Crumlin, 99 g > and...last but not least, > - Mauritius (!!), 197 g (!) (who had ever seen a fragment ?) > > ?- The consignment room promises to be very rich > in interesting offers as not less than 15 > different persons announced various weird samples > they will bring along (sometimes from very far away) for sale. > > To cite one example, we'll have a 30% crusted (!) > 357 g Sulagiri (new official name for "Hosur"), > this LL6 that fell in late 2008 in the middle of a village in India. > Parhaps also its 721 g 65% crusted "big brother"! > Competitive wholesale prices announced for these two! > And many, many more. > > Welcome all to the 3 days "funny big blast" ! > (yes, you read the flyer correctly: this year all starts on Friday!) > > Best wishes to all, > > Zelimir > > Prof. Zelimir Gabelica > Universit? de Haute Alsace > ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, > 3, Rue A. Werner, > F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France > Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 > Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Thu Jun 4 10:28:10 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:28:10 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sulagiri/Hosur In-Reply-To: References: <200905281036.n4SAagj2012026@post.webmailer.de> <200905281239.n4SCdIbC002803@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> <200906041309.n54D9qbR006474@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <200906041427.n54ERwZC008460@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi Mike, Well, perhaps not really a hammer as defined by Capt. Blood. Hosur basically fell in the village suburbs damaging streets, trees, ponds...apparently neither houses, not humans. One fragment fell a few meters from a cow assembly.... The best documentation for this fall is described on the site of Svend Buhl: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20fall_1.htm NB: Hosur apparently sells in retail between 25 and 50 $/g. To my best knowledge, the 2 big fragments on consignment in Ensi should turn around 10-12 euro/g. Always welcome here! My best, Zelimir At 16:14 04/06/2009, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: >Good luck and safe travels to the lucky people who attend the show >this year. I look forward to seeing new photos and hearing the >stories told afterwards. :) > >BTW - is Sulagiri/Hosur a "hammer" ?? > >If so, I want some! LOL :) > >Best regards, > >MikeG > > >On 6/4/09, Zelimir Gabelica wrote: > > Hello List, > > > > The latest news about the 2009 edition of the > > Ensisheim show can be found in two flyers (in > > English and in French) now included in the two following web sites: > > > > www.ville-ensisheim.fr > > or > > http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr > > > > If you can't find them, ba patient as it could > > still take a couple of hours for their installment. > > > > Should you wish to receive directly the flyer as > > attachment, just drop me a mail (specify if you > > wish the English or French version). > > Also, if you have trouble in clicking these > > sites, feel free to ask me directly to send you the final flyer. > > > > Should you have specific questions or > > requirements regarding the show organization > > (tables, dinner...reservations) and/or its > > scientific parts (consignment room...) contact me > > by mail (I am also available on phone but on erratic hours) > > > > If you need some general info about the show > > side-enjoyments, be aware that right now > > Jean-Marie Blosser is out of mail (reason: huge > > alien-virus invasion!) so contact me and I'll see > > if I can help or I'll forward your requests in the appropriate direction. > > > > For all concerning accommodation, please contact > > directly your hotel reception desk (they use to speak quite many languages) > > > > Two important warnings: > > > > 1) As every year, I have reserved places and > > tables for our former guests who use to attend (almost) every year. > > Most of them had confirmed their reservations but > > some of them still remain silent!! > > > > Now it is more than time for them to confirm > > their wish to reserve their usual place. > > In case they can't do it this year, I'd very much > > appreciate if they could confirm their > > withdrawal, this will greatly facilitate my table re-distribution. > > If I don't hear from them by next Monday June 8, > > I will reserve me the right to attribute their > > usual places to new dealers who are on a waiting list. > > > > 2) The Friday dinner-party requires reservation. > > If you wish to attend, just send me one name and the number of persons. > > Specifying the menu (poultry or game) is optional > > but could help the cook to be efficient and smooth in serving promptly. > > > > ? - As the latest news, we will have on display > > about 10 very famous meteorites from the > > meteorite collection of the "National Museums Scotland". > > To cite a few: > > - Orgueil (19 g fragments in vial, from the old Saeman collection, Paris) > > - Strathmore, 1166 g (!). A hammer! > > - Weston, 391 g (!) > > - Barwell, 65 g > > - L'Aigle, 198 g > > - Cold Bokkeveld, 66 g > > - Zagami, 72 g > > - Crumlin, 99 g > > and...last but not least, > > - Mauritius (!!), 197 g (!) (who had ever seen a fragment ?) > > > > ?- The consignment room promises to be very rich > > in interesting offers as not less than 15 > > different persons announced various weird samples > > they will bring along (sometimes from very far away) for sale. > > > > To cite one example, we'll have a 30% crusted (!) > > 357 g Sulagiri (new official name for "Hosur"), > > this LL6 that fell in late 2008 in the middle of a village in India. > > Parhaps also its 721 g 65% crusted "big brother"! > > Competitive wholesale prices announced for these two! > > And many, many more. > > > > Welcome all to the 3 days "funny big blast" ! > > (yes, you read the flyer correctly: this year all starts on Friday!) > > > > Best wishes to all, > > > > Zelimir > > > > Prof. Zelimir Gabelica > > Universit? de Haute Alsace > > ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, > > 3, Rue A. Werner, > > F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France > > Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 > > Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > >-- >......................................................... >Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >Member of the Meteoritical Society. >Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >.......................................................... Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From mail at mhmeteorites.com Thu Jun 4 10:36:06 2009 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (mail at mhmeteorites.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:36:06 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sulagiri/Hosur In-Reply-To: <200906041427.n54ERwZC008460@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> References: <200905281036.n4SAagj2012026@post.webmailer.de><200905281239.n4SCdIbC002803@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr><200906041309.n54D9qbR006474@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr><200906041427.n54ERwZC008460@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <196180704-1244126176-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-821892525-@bxe1050.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I know of a few pieces for a great price. Better than 25/g! Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA -----Original Message----- From: Zelimir Gabelica Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:28:10 To: Galactic Stone & Ironworks Cc: meteorite list Subject: [meteorite-list] Sulagiri/Hosur Hi Mike, Well, perhaps not really a hammer as defined by Capt. Blood. Hosur basically fell in the village suburbs damaging streets, trees, ponds...apparently neither houses, not humans. One fragment fell a few meters from a cow assembly.... The best documentation for this fall is described on the site of Svend Buhl: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20fall_1.htm NB: Hosur apparently sells in retail between 25 and 50 $/g. To my best knowledge, the 2 big fragments on consignment in Ensi should turn around 10-12 euro/g. Always welcome here! My best, Zelimir At 16:14 04/06/2009, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: >Good luck and safe travels to the lucky people who attend the show >this year. I look forward to seeing new photos and hearing the >stories told afterwards. :) > >BTW - is Sulagiri/Hosur a "hammer" ?? > >If so, I want some! LOL :) > >Best regards, > >MikeG > > >On 6/4/09, Zelimir Gabelica wrote: > > Hello List, > > > > The latest news about the 2009 edition of the > > Ensisheim show can be found in two flyers (in > > English and in French) now included in the two following web sites: > > > > www.ville-ensisheim.fr > > or > > http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr > > > > If you can't find them, ba patient as it could > > still take a couple of hours for their installment. > > > > Should you wish to receive directly the flyer as > > attachment, just drop me a mail (specify if you > > wish the English or French version). > > Also, if you have trouble in clicking these > > sites, feel free to ask me directly to send you the final flyer. > > > > Should you have specific questions or > > requirements regarding the show organization > > (tables, dinner...reservations) and/or its > > scientific parts (consignment room...) contact me > > by mail (I am also available on phone but on erratic hours) > > > > If you need some general info about the show > > side-enjoyments, be aware that right now > > Jean-Marie Blosser is out of mail (reason: huge > > alien-virus invasion!) so contact me and I'll see > > if I can help or I'll forward your requests in the appropriate direction. > > > > For all concerning accommodation, please contact > > directly your hotel reception desk (they use to speak quite many languages) > > > > Two important warnings: > > > > 1) As every year, I have reserved places and > > tables for our former guests who use to attend (almost) every year. > > Most of them had confirmed their reservations but > > some of them still remain silent!! > > > > Now it is more than time for them to confirm > > their wish to reserve their usual place. > > In case they can't do it this year, I'd very much > > appreciate if they could confirm their > > withdrawal, this will greatly facilitate my table re-distribution. > > If I don't hear from them by next Monday June 8, > > I will reserve me the right to attribute their > > usual places to new dealers who are on a waiting list. > > > > 2) The Friday dinner-party requires reservation. > > If you wish to attend, just send me one name and the number of persons. > > Specifying the menu (poultry or game) is optional > > but could help the cook to be efficient and smooth in serving promptly. > > > > ? - As the latest news, we will have on display > > about 10 very famous meteorites from the > > meteorite collection of the "National Museums Scotland". > > To cite a few: > > - Orgueil (19 g fragments in vial, from the old Saeman collection, Paris) > > - Strathmore, 1166 g (!). A hammer! > > - Weston, 391 g (!) > > - Barwell, 65 g > > - L'Aigle, 198 g > > - Cold Bokkeveld, 66 g > > - Zagami, 72 g > > - Crumlin, 99 g > > and...last but not least, > > - Mauritius (!!), 197 g (!) (who had ever seen a fragment ?) > > > > ?- The consignment room promises to be very rich > > in interesting offers as not less than 15 > > different persons announced various weird samples > > they will bring along (sometimes from very far away) for sale. > > > > To cite one example, we'll have a 30% crusted (!) > > 357 g Sulagiri (new official name for "Hosur"), > > this LL6 that fell in late 2008 in the middle of a village in India. > > Parhaps also its 721 g 65% crusted "big brother"! > > Competitive wholesale prices announced for these two! > > And many, many more. > > > > Welcome all to the 3 days "funny big blast" ! > > (yes, you read the flyer correctly: this year all starts on Friday!) > > > > Best wishes to all, > > > > Zelimir > > > > Prof. Zelimir Gabelica > > Universit? de Haute Alsace > > ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, > > 3, Rue A. Werner, > > F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France > > Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 > > Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 > > > >______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > >-- >......................................................... >Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >Member of the Meteoritical Society. >Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >.......................................................... Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Thu Jun 4 10:57:02 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:57:02 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sulagiri/Hosur In-Reply-To: <196180704-1244126176-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim. net-821892525-@bxe1050.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <200905281036.n4SAagj2012026@post.webmailer.de> <200905281239.n4SCdIbC002803@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> <200906041309.n54D9qbR006474@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> <200906041427.n54ERwZC008460@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> <196180704-1244126176-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-821892525-@bxe1050.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <200906041456.n54Eula8009148@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> 10 euro/g would be about $ 14/g as per today rate. Apparently crusted pieces are rare. Zelimir At 16:36 04/06/2009, mail at mhmeteorites.com wrote: >I know of a few pieces for a great price. Better than 25/g! >Matt >Matt Morgan >Mile High Meteorites >http://www.mhmeteorites.com >P.O. Box 151293 >Lakewood, CO 80215 USA > >-----Original Message----- >From: Zelimir Gabelica > >Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:28:10 >To: Galactic Stone & Ironworks >Cc: meteorite list >Subject: [meteorite-list] Sulagiri/Hosur > > >Hi Mike, > >Well, perhaps not really a hammer as defined by Capt. Blood. >Hosur basically fell in the village suburbs >damaging streets, trees, ponds...apparently >neither houses, not humans. One fragment fell a >few meters from a cow assembly.... > >The best documentation for this fall is described on the site of Svend Buhl: > >http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite%20fall_1.htm > >NB: Hosur apparently sells in retail between 25 >and 50 $/g. To my best knowledge, the 2 big >fragments on consignment in Ensi should turn around 10-12 euro/g. > >Always welcome here! > >My best, > >Zelimir > >At 16:14 04/06/2009, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > >Good luck and safe travels to the lucky people who attend the show > >this year. I look forward to seeing new photos and hearing the > >stories told afterwards. :) > > > >BTW - is Sulagiri/Hosur a "hammer" ?? > > > >If so, I want some! LOL :) > > > >Best regards, > > > >MikeG > > > > > >On 6/4/09, Zelimir Gabelica wrote: > > > Hello List, > > > > > > The latest news about the 2009 edition of the > > > Ensisheim show can be found in two flyers (in > > > English and in French) now included in the two following web sites: > > > > > > www.ville-ensisheim.fr > > > or > > > http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr > > > > > > If you can't find them, ba patient as it could > > > still take a couple of hours for their installment. > > > > > > Should you wish to receive directly the flyer as > > > attachment, just drop me a mail (specify if you > > > wish the English or French version). > > > Also, if you have trouble in clicking these > > > sites, feel free to ask me directly to send you the final flyer. > > > > > > Should you have specific questions or > > > requirements regarding the show organization > > > (tables, dinner...reservations) and/or its > > > scientific parts (consignment room...) contact me > > > by mail (I am also available on phone but on erratic hours) > > > > > > If you need some general info about the show > > > side-enjoyments, be aware that right now > > > Jean-Marie Blosser is out of mail (reason: huge > > > alien-virus invasion!) so contact me and I'll see > > > if I can help or I'll forward your requests in the appropriate direction. > > > > > > For all concerning accommodation, please contact > > > directly your hotel reception desk (they > use to speak quite many languages) > > > > > > Two important warnings: > > > > > > 1) As every year, I have reserved places and > > > tables for our former guests who use to attend (almost) every year. > > > Most of them had confirmed their reservations but > > > some of them still remain silent!! > > > > > > Now it is more than time for them to confirm > > > their wish to reserve their usual place. > > > In case they can't do it this year, I'd very much > > > appreciate if they could confirm their > > > withdrawal, this will greatly facilitate my table re-distribution. > > > If I don't hear from them by next Monday June 8, > > > I will reserve me the right to attribute their > > > usual places to new dealers who are on a waiting list. > > > > > > 2) The Friday dinner-party requires reservation. > > > If you wish to attend, just send me one name and the number of persons. > > > Specifying the menu (poultry or game) is optional > > > but could help the cook to be efficient and smooth in serving promptly. > > > > > > ? - As the latest news, we will have on display > > > about 10 very famous meteorites from the > > > meteorite collection of the "National Museums Scotland". > > > To cite a few: > > > - Orgueil (19 g fragments in vial, from the old Saeman collection, Paris) > > > - Strathmore, 1166 g (!). A hammer! > > > - Weston, 391 g (!) > > > - Barwell, 65 g > > > - L'Aigle, 198 g > > > - Cold Bokkeveld, 66 g > > > - Zagami, 72 g > > > - Crumlin, 99 g > > > and...last but not least, > > > - Mauritius (!!), 197 g (!) (who had ever seen a fragment ?) > > > > > > ?- The consignment room promises to be very rich > > > in interesting offers as not less than 15 > > > different persons announced various weird samples > > > they will bring along (sometimes from very far away) for sale. > > > > > > To cite one example, we'll have a 30% crusted (!) > > > 357 g Sulagiri (new official name for "Hosur"), > > > this LL6 that fell in late 2008 in the middle of a village in India. > > > Parhaps also its 721 g 65% crusted "big brother"! > > > Competitive wholesale prices announced for these two! > > > And many, many more. > > > > > > Welcome all to the 3 days "funny big blast" ! > > > (yes, you read the flyer correctly: this year all starts on Friday!) > > > > > > Best wishes to all, > > > > > > Zelimir > > > > > > Prof. Zelimir Gabelica > > > Universit? de Haute Alsace > > > ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, > > > 3, Rue A. Werner, > > > F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France > > > Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 > > > Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 > > > > > >______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > >-- > >......................................................... > >Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > >Member of the Meteoritical Society. > >Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > >Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > >.......................................................... > >Prof. Zelimir Gabelica >Universit? de Haute Alsace >ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, >3, Rue A. Werner, >F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France >Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 >Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 > >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From eric at meteoritesusa.com Thu Jun 4 13:38:48 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:38:48 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite In Situ On Mars Message-ID: <4A2806A8.1070109@meteoritesusa.com> Hi List, Here's a cool article on NewScientist.com showing a photo taken by Opportunity Rover of a possible meteorite about 800 meters south of Victoria Crater. http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn17254/dn17254-1_300.jpg ARTICLE: Fist-sized stones scattered around Victoria Crater on Mars appear to be meteorites ? and might be fragments of the object that punched out the crater, researchers say. Because the rocks contain iron, which rusts in the presence of water, they could provide a sensitive gauge of how much weathering has affected the region in recent times. The rovers Spirit and Opportunity have previously found three iron meteorites, whose shiny, metallic appearance makes them stand out against the dusty Martian surface. Now, Opportunity has turned up six other candidates on a Martian plain called Meridiani Planum, all of which appear to be related to each other. Instruments on the rover, including its M?ssbauer spectrometer, show the rocks are stony, but also contain iron-bearing minerals present in meteorites found on Earth, such as kamacite and troilite. "I've been very excited ? about the prospects of finding meteorites at the Opportunity landing site because it is the perfect setting for it ? an ancient surface with very few Mars rocks," says James Ashley of Arizona State University in Tempe. "In this sense, it is similar to Antarctic meteorite fields where few Earth rocks are to be found." http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17254-rusty-space-rocks-could-flag-up-mars-water.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- In an old article linked from this one is another describing two iron meteorites found by Spirit rover in April of 2006. IRON METEORITES: Two iron meteorites have been spotted by the Mars rover Spirit, mission scientists have announced. The finds are the first meteorites identified by Spirit, although its twin, Opportunity, discovered a similar space rock on the other side of the planet in January 2005. Spirit photographed the rocks in April 2006, just after it parked at Low Ridge Haven, a northern-tilting slope that is serving as its home for the six-month-long Martian winter. The rocks appear smoother and lighter in tone than surrounding rocks. They resemble the glossy, pitted meteorite - dubbed "Heat Shield Rock" - that Opportunity found near its discarded heat shield. Observations of that rock with Opportunity's miniature thermal emission spectrometer (Mini-TES) showed it was very reflective - a telltale sign of an iron meteorite (see Metal chunk on Mars confirmed as meteorite). Now, observations by the Mini-TES on Spirit reveal the two suspect rocks are similarly reflective. "They're very good reflectors," says mission member Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St Louis, US. "We're seeing the heat of the sky being reflected to Mini-TES. I don't know how that can happen unless it's a metal." http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9324-mars-rover-spirit-finds-metallic-meteorites.html -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From meteoriteshow at free.fr Thu Jun 4 13:55:48 2009 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 17:55:48 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday Message-ID: <000d01c9e53d$b1aab410$0300a8c0@T42> Dear Listees, Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow They include: 1- DaG 573 L4 - 20.6g full slice: dimensions 59x58x3mm Losts of sharply defined chondrules in a grey matrix & metal flakes, fusion crust all around. THIS IS THE LAST PIECE OF DaG 573 AVAILABLE... STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330333109393 2- NWA 859 (Taza) IRON UNGR. - 30.3g oriented: dimensions ~36x16x11mm. Beautiful shape with rollover lips. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330333109434 3- SAH 02500 L3 - 229.8g CRUSTED ENDCUT: dimensions: 52x50x48mm. The polished cut section shows the typical structure of SAH 02500, with clasts, inclusions, big metal flakes & nice chondrules. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330333109488 4- SAH 02500 L3 - 93.8g - 9 pces: weighing respectively 13.31g + 12.95 + 12.21 + 11.84 + 11.24 + 10.81 + 7.9 + 7.68 + 6.0g 7 of them are partially FUSION CRUSTED. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330333109521 Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!! Kind regards, Frederic Beroud http://www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/) From lintonius at earthlink.net Thu Jun 4 14:44:03 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:44:03 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite In Situ On Mars References: <4A2806A8.1070109@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <1F84E9B9B6004810BAA5D2B06D083C9A@D190TH71> Hey, that's pretty cool, Eric. Thanks for sharing. You can leave the metal detector home. All you need is the space suit and a couple other little things. ;^) Linton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" To: Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:38 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite In Situ On Mars Hi List, Here's a cool article on NewScientist.com showing a photo taken by Opportunity Rover of a possible meteorite about 800 meters south of Victoria Crater. http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn17254/dn17254-1_300.jpg ARTICLE: Fist-sized stones scattered around Victoria Crater on Mars appear to be meteorites ? and might be fragments of the object that punched out the crater, researchers say. Because the rocks contain iron, which rusts in the presence of water, they could provide a sensitive gauge of how much weathering has affected the region in recent times. The rovers Spirit and Opportunity have previously found three iron meteorites, whose shiny, metallic appearance makes them stand out against the dusty Martian surface. Now, Opportunity has turned up six other candidates on a Martian plain called Meridiani Planum, all of which appear to be related to each other. Instruments on the rover, including its M?ssbauer spectrometer, show the rocks are stony, but also contain iron-bearing minerals present in meteorites found on Earth, such as kamacite and troilite. "I've been very excited ? about the prospects of finding meteorites at the Opportunity landing site because it is the perfect setting for it ? an ancient surface with very few Mars rocks," says James Ashley of Arizona State University in Tempe. "In this sense, it is similar to Antarctic meteorite fields where few Earth rocks are to be found." http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17254-rusty-space-rocks-could-flag-up-mars-water.html ---------------------------------------------------------------- In an old article linked from this one is another describing two iron meteorites found by Spirit rover in April of 2006. IRON METEORITES: Two iron meteorites have been spotted by the Mars rover Spirit, mission scientists have announced. The finds are the first meteorites identified by Spirit, although its twin, Opportunity, discovered a similar space rock on the other side of the planet in January 2005. Spirit photographed the rocks in April 2006, just after it parked at Low Ridge Haven, a northern-tilting slope that is serving as its home for the six-month-long Martian winter. The rocks appear smoother and lighter in tone than surrounding rocks. They resemble the glossy, pitted meteorite - dubbed "Heat Shield Rock" - that Opportunity found near its discarded heat shield. Observations of that rock with Opportunity's miniature thermal emission spectrometer (Mini-TES) showed it was very reflective - a telltale sign of an iron meteorite (see Metal chunk on Mars confirmed as meteorite). Now, observations by the Mini-TES on Spirit reveal the two suspect rocks are similarly reflective. "They're very good reflectors," says mission member Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St Louis, US. "We're seeing the heat of the sky being reflected to Mini-TES. I don't know how that can happen unless it's a metal." http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9324-mars-rover-spirit-finds-metallic-meteorites.html -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteorites at online.nl Thu Jun 4 19:32:09 2009 From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 01:32:09 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD]Lost City 3,8 gr. slice Message-ID: <3E32054524EE48DC92DF7A2963193004@laptop> Listoids, Listed on Ebay, a 3,8 grams slice of Lost City. Look here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Lost-City-Meteorite-slice-3-8-grams_W0QQitemZ170340606298QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Sorry, no trades. Regards, Jan Holland From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Thu Jun 4 20:44:57 2009 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 00:44:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] Article: Did a meteor bring down Air France 447? In-Reply-To: <2012462807.787961244162582313.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <267871959.788881244162697027.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Get ready for some whacky statistics: (http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/06/04/did-a-meteor-bring-down-air-france-447/ ) "That?s a one-in-twenty chance of some plane going down for this reason in that 20 year period." From marcin at meteoryt.net Thu Jun 4 21:06:31 2009 From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 03:06:31 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sulagiri/Hosur References: <200905281036.n4SAagj2012026@post.webmailer.de><200905281239.n4SCdIbC002803@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr><200906041309.n54D9qbR006474@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr><200906041427.n54ERwZC008460@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr><196180704-1244126176-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-821892525-@bxe1050.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <200906041456.n54Eula8009148@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <032e01c9e579$e1516060$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> > 10 euro/g would be about $ 14/g as per today rate. Apparently crusted > pieces are rare. > > Zelimir > I have many offers on this one and also hear about some from different persons and this sometimes was offered for 5$ sometimes for 35$/g, but becouse of not clear situation with export permission I have never decided to get this material. PS. Our last mega bolide from 31.may was empty. Too high speed, too high altitude, week material and big bara bum turned it into dust. ehhh damn its sad. -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 4 23:35:19 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 23:35:19 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite In Situ On Mars In-Reply-To: <1F84E9B9B6004810BAA5D2B06D083C9A@D190TH71> References: <4A2806A8.1070109@meteoritesusa.com> <1F84E9B9B6004810BAA5D2B06D083C9A@D190TH71> Message-ID: Hi, Eric and List, Any speculation for Libyan glass-type objects, moldavites, or tektites being found on Mars any time soon? The conditions would be ideal for their creation, eh? (minus the atmosphere influence on the tektites, of course!) Cheers, Pete ---------------------------------------- > From: lintonius at earthlink.net > To: eric at meteoritesusa.com > Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:44:03 -0700 > CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite In Situ On Mars > > Hey, that's pretty cool, Eric. Thanks for sharing. > You can leave the metal detector home. All you need > is the space suit and a couple other little things. ;^) > Linton > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Meteorites USA" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:38 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite In Situ On Mars > > > Hi List, > > Here's a cool article on NewScientist.com showing a photo taken by > Opportunity Rover of a possible meteorite about 800 meters south of > Victoria Crater. > > http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn17254/dn17254-1_300.jpg > > ARTICLE: Fist-sized stones scattered around Victoria Crater on Mars > appear to be meteorites ? and might be fragments of the object that > punched out the crater, researchers say. Because the rocks contain iron, > which rusts in the presence of water, they could provide a sensitive > gauge of how much weathering has affected the region in recent times. > > The rovers Spirit and Opportunity have previously found three iron > meteorites, whose shiny, metallic appearance makes them stand out > against the dusty Martian surface. > > Now, Opportunity has turned up six other candidates on a Martian plain > called Meridiani Planum, all of which appear to be related to each > other. Instruments on the rover, including its M?ssbauer spectrometer, > show the rocks are stony, but also contain iron-bearing minerals present > in meteorites found on Earth, such as kamacite and troilite. > > "I've been very excited ? about the prospects of finding meteorites at > the Opportunity landing site because it is the perfect setting for it ? > an ancient surface with very few Mars rocks," says James Ashley of > Arizona State University in Tempe. "In this sense, it is similar to > Antarctic meteorite fields where few Earth rocks are to be found." > > http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17254-rusty-space-rocks-could-flag-up-mars-water.html > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > In an old article linked from this one is another describing two iron > meteorites found by Spirit rover in April of 2006. > > IRON METEORITES: Two iron meteorites have been spotted by the Mars rover > Spirit, mission scientists have announced. The finds are the first > meteorites identified by Spirit, although its twin, Opportunity, > discovered a similar space rock on the other side of the planet in > January 2005. > > Spirit photographed the rocks in April 2006, just after it parked at Low > Ridge Haven, a northern-tilting slope that is serving as its home for > the six-month-long Martian winter. > > The rocks appear smoother and lighter in tone than surrounding rocks. > They resemble the glossy, pitted meteorite - dubbed "Heat Shield Rock" - > that Opportunity found near its discarded heat shield. > > Observations of that rock with Opportunity's miniature thermal emission > spectrometer (Mini-TES) showed it was very reflective - a telltale sign > of an iron meteorite (see Metal chunk on Mars confirmed as meteorite). > Now, observations by the Mini-TES on Spirit reveal the two suspect rocks > are similarly reflective. > > "They're very good reflectors," says mission member Ray Arvidson of > Washington University in St Louis, US. "We're seeing the heat of the sky > being reflected to Mini-TES. I don't know how that can happen unless > it's a metal." > > http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9324-mars-rover-spirit-finds-metallic-meteorites.html > > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Attention all humans. We are your photos. Free us. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666046 From pshugar at clearwire.net Fri Jun 5 00:02:23 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar@clearwire.net) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 23:02:23 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? Message-ID: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop> We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. These we know where they come from. Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, or maybe Earthite? Just contemplating my navel here. Pete From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jun 5 00:04:10 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:04:10 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Meteorite Hunters Born Message-ID: <4A28993A.3000301@meteoritesusa.com> I was reading through some interesting articles today and ran across this little blurb. Though some terms are incorrect the gist is there. There are new meteorite hunters being born. http://community.fox4kc.com/_METEORITE-MEN/BLOG/334832/96364.html -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jun 5 01:17:49 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:17:49 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space Message-ID: <4A28AA7D.60905@meteoritesusa.com> Hi list, I know I've posted a lot today, but bear with me. I've been doing some research since I found the article on the meteorite that Mars rover Opportunity found on Mars earlier and it got me to thinking about how it got there and where it was from. This led to more research and more questions... We know meteorites come from other celestial bodies, whether they be from asteroids, comets, or planets. All types of meteorites have been found on Earth but... What about the reverse? We know it happens because we have lunar and martian meteorites here on Earth. Over the last few months I've been reading about panspermia and artificial planet seeding too which are very interesting topics. You can imagine the force a huge asteroid would exert on the crust of our planet during an impact event and would eject quite a bit of material into space. This all brings up some very interesting questions... If Panspermia is a theory, then wouldn't reverse panspermia (life originating from Earth) suggest it's very plausible and not just possible to seed life on other planets from another by impact, travel and time? Having said that let me illustrate a scenario. A huge asteroid impacted Earth millions of years ago throwing millions of tons of debris into our atmosphere. Some of this debris will escape Earth's gravity and make it into space. How much is arguable. Wouldn't it be possible for some microbe or bacteria to be preserved deep inside a clump of Earth, and flash frozen in the iciness of space? How many billions of bacteria, and microbes, or even insects have been launched into space over the hundreds or even thousands of large impacts the Earth has been subject to since the beginning of time? Look at the jungles of South America and Africa and other tropical regions. The density of life in any given square foot is higher than on any other place on the planet. If a large Asteroid impacted this region you can imagine the sheer numbers of "life forms" that escaped Earth. Survivability is the issue. If the microbe or "life form" is deep enough within the stone, rock, or clump of earth, wouldn't it be preserved. wouldn't this Earth rock act as a capsule to transport life outside our own solar system? Current science tells us that the temperature of the interior of a meteoroid entering our atmosphere is relatively low. In fact it is usually ambient to space. In other words cold! Frozen even. This is sufficient to allow a microbial life form to survive isn't it? Look up Water Bear on Google... http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2905&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/081016-am-tardigrade-toughness.html Wouldn't this mean that there could be space rocks out there with "life" within them right now? Life that came from Earth? And if there's life out there that comes from Earth, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to guess that there might be other material out there that might just have come from another habitable solar system. I know these are big jumps and guesses, but isn't it possible considering the sheer length of time, the age of our planet, and the number of impact events over this time period on other celestial bodies and planets? I mean we are talking about billions of years here... Your thoughts? -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From gmhupe at htn.net Fri Jun 5 01:28:16 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 01:28:16 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space References: <4A28AA7D.60905@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <805C6E939C2941A9913BD80BC9296508@Gregor> Yep! Here's proof: http://foreverloyal.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/marvin_the_martian.jpg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" To: Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:17 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space > Hi list, > > I know I've posted a lot today, but bear with me. I've been doing some > research since I found the article on the meteorite that Mars rover > Opportunity found on Mars earlier and it got me to thinking about how it > got there and where it was from. This led to more research and more > questions... > > We know meteorites come from other celestial bodies, whether they be from > asteroids, comets, or planets. All types of meteorites have been found on > Earth but... What about the reverse? > > We know it happens because we have lunar and martian meteorites here on > Earth. Over the last few months I've been reading about panspermia and > artificial planet seeding too which are very interesting topics. > > You can imagine the force a huge asteroid would exert on the crust of our > planet during an impact event and would eject quite a bit of material into > space. > > This all brings up some very interesting questions... If Panspermia is a > theory, then wouldn't reverse panspermia (life originating from Earth) > suggest it's very plausible and not just possible to seed life on other > planets from another by impact, travel and time? > > Having said that let me illustrate a scenario. A huge asteroid impacted > Earth millions of years ago throwing millions of tons of debris into our > atmosphere. Some of this debris will escape Earth's gravity and make it > into space. How much is arguable. Wouldn't it be possible for some microbe > or bacteria to be preserved deep inside a clump of Earth, and flash frozen > in the iciness of space? > > How many billions of bacteria, and microbes, or even insects have been > launched into space over the hundreds or even thousands of large impacts > the Earth has been subject to since the beginning of time? Look at the > jungles of South America and Africa and other tropical regions. The > density of life in any given square foot is higher than on any other place > on the planet. If a large Asteroid impacted this region you can imagine > the sheer numbers of "life forms" that escaped Earth. > > Survivability is the issue. If the microbe or "life form" is deep enough > within the stone, rock, or clump of earth, wouldn't it be preserved. > wouldn't this Earth rock act as a capsule to transport life outside our > own solar system? Current science tells us that the temperature of the > interior of a meteoroid entering our atmosphere is relatively low. In fact > it is usually ambient to space. In other words cold! Frozen even. This is > sufficient to allow a microbial life form to survive isn't it? Look up > Water Bear on Google... > > http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2905&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 > > http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/081016-am-tardigrade-toughness.html > > Wouldn't this mean that there could be space rocks out there with "life" > within them right now? Life that came from Earth? And if there's life out > there that comes from Earth, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to guess > that there might be other material out there that might just have come > from another habitable solar system. I know these are big jumps and > guesses, but isn't it possible considering the sheer length of time, the > age of our planet, and the number of impact events over this time period > on other celestial bodies and planets? > > I mean we are talking about billions of years here... > > Your thoughts? > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jun 5 01:48:33 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:48:33 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space In-Reply-To: <805C6E939C2941A9913BD80BC9296508@Gregor> References: <4A28AA7D.60905@meteoritesusa.com> <805C6E939C2941A9913BD80BC9296508@Gregor> Message-ID: <4A28B1B1.10804@meteoritesusa.com> Nice! ;) LOL Greg Hupe wrote: > Yep! > Here's proof: > http://foreverloyal.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/marvin_the_martian.jpg > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" > > To: > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:17 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space > > >> Hi list, >> >> I know I've posted a lot today, but bear with me. I've been doing >> some research since I found the article on the meteorite that Mars >> rover Opportunity found on Mars earlier and it got me to thinking >> about how it got there and where it was from. This led to more >> research and more questions... >> >> We know meteorites come from other celestial bodies, whether they be >> from asteroids, comets, or planets. All types of meteorites have been >> found on Earth but... What about the reverse? >> >> We know it happens because we have lunar and martian meteorites here >> on Earth. Over the last few months I've been reading about panspermia >> and artificial planet seeding too which are very interesting topics. >> >> You can imagine the force a huge asteroid would exert on the crust of >> our planet during an impact event and would eject quite a bit of >> material into space. >> >> This all brings up some very interesting questions... If Panspermia >> is a theory, then wouldn't reverse panspermia (life originating from >> Earth) suggest it's very plausible and not just possible to seed life >> on other planets from another by impact, travel and time? >> >> Having said that let me illustrate a scenario. A huge asteroid >> impacted Earth millions of years ago throwing millions of tons of >> debris into our atmosphere. Some of this debris will escape Earth's >> gravity and make it into space. How much is arguable. Wouldn't it be >> possible for some microbe or bacteria to be preserved deep inside a >> clump of Earth, and flash frozen in the iciness of space? >> >> How many billions of bacteria, and microbes, or even insects have >> been launched into space over the hundreds or even thousands of large >> impacts the Earth has been subject to since the beginning of time? >> Look at the jungles of South America and Africa and other tropical >> regions. The density of life in any given square foot is higher than >> on any other place on the planet. If a large Asteroid impacted this >> region you can imagine the sheer numbers of "life forms" that escaped >> Earth. >> >> Survivability is the issue. If the microbe or "life form" is deep >> enough within the stone, rock, or clump of earth, wouldn't it be >> preserved. wouldn't this Earth rock act as a capsule to transport >> life outside our own solar system? Current science tells us that the >> temperature of the interior of a meteoroid entering our atmosphere is >> relatively low. In fact it is usually ambient to space. In other >> words cold! Frozen even. This is sufficient to allow a microbial life >> form to survive isn't it? Look up Water Bear on Google... >> >> http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2905&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 >> >> >> http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/081016-am-tardigrade-toughness.html >> >> >> Wouldn't this mean that there could be space rocks out there with >> "life" within them right now? Life that came from Earth? And if >> there's life out there that comes from Earth, it wouldn't take a >> rocket scientist to guess that there might be other material out >> there that might just have come from another habitable solar system. >> I know these are big jumps and guesses, but isn't it possible >> considering the sheer length of time, the age of our planet, and the >> number of impact events over this time period on other celestial >> bodies and planets? >> >> I mean we are talking about billions of years here... >> >> Your thoughts? >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Eric Wichman >> Meteorites USA >> http://www.meteoritesusa.com >> 904-236-5394 >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> From mexicodoug at aim.com Fri Jun 5 01:52:30 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 01:52:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? -an answer!!! In-Reply-To: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop> Message-ID: <8CBB3B8F2C6C707-165C-C11@FWM-M13.sysops.aol.com> Pete wrote: "can a meteorite?hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon?or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid,?or maybe Earthite?" Hi Pete, Generally the splashed and splattered material from a meteoroid impact on earth are called "Tektites", or if it was from the biggest impact they are called the "Moon". Tektites are thought to be formed from the largest collisions and are so far from escaping the gravitational domination of the earth, that, if Earth were a grapefruit size, most of the tektites the list is familiar with have the escape velocity of an acrobatic ant jumping at most a few millimeters high. Technically, the Moon is the only known Earthoid. Most of us are skeptical about a reverse path plausibility to not only survive the initially viscous path out of the atmosphere, but then also beyond the reach of Earth's primary gravitational dominance. once you look at the seemingly impossible physics (few things in nature are outright impossible, but even Clinton would have a harder time arguing most of them than against, say, good DNA testing results). The Moon is a good clue to the answer to your question. It has 27% of the Earth's diameter (though under 2% of the mass). That was a big impact, supposedly from a Mars sized planetoid! Yet, all the material is assumed to have stayed on Earth or within its grasp (forming the Moon). Wh at I'm getting at is the answer to your question is no one knows, and it is well covered in the archives since this question comes up at least once a year. That is why tried to give a different slant on the answer this time so the old timers aren't bored out of their mind. Let me leave you with this fine research question: So, how much material, if any, could have been ejected from the collision that created the Earth-Moon system as a result? That would be an olympic jumping spider! Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Pete Shugar at clearwire.net To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:02 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the? Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite.? These we know where they come from.? ? Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite? hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon? or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid,? or maybe Earthite?? Just contemplating my navel here.? Pete? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? From meteoritekid at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 02:11:31 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 23:11:31 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? -an answer!!! In-Reply-To: <8CBB3B8F2C6C707-165C-C11@FWM-M13.sysops.aol.com> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop> <8CBB3B8F2C6C707-165C-C11@FWM-M13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890906042311h66ec048cne4e3422542b3e9cb@mail.gmail.com> Of course, if anyone here is familiar with Tintin (in particular, "Tintin and The Shooting Star"), one knows that the elements in at least some meteorites can create such beasts... http://farm1.static.flickr.com/3/4224425_e9c3ce4f4e.jpg On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Mexicodoug wrote: > Pete wrote: > > "can a meteorite?hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the > moon?or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid,?or maybe > Earthite?" > > Hi Pete, > > Generally the splashed and splattered material from a meteoroid impact on > earth are called "Tektites", or if it was from the biggest impact they are > called the "Moon". Tektites are thought to be formed from the largest > collisions and are so far from escaping the gravitational domination of the > earth, that, if Earth were a grapefruit size, most of the tektites the list > is familiar with have the escape velocity of an acrobatic ant jumping at > most a few millimeters high. > > Technically, the Moon is the only known Earthoid. > > Most of us are skeptical about a reverse path plausibility to not only > survive the initially viscous path out of the atmosphere, but then also > beyond the reach of Earth's primary gravitational dominance. once you look > at the seemingly impossible physics (few things in nature are outright > impossible, but even Clinton would have a harder time arguing most of them > than against, say, good DNA testing results). > > The Moon is a good clue to the answer to your question. It has 27% of the > Earth's diameter (though under 2% of the mass). That was a big impact, > supposedly from a Mars sized planetoid! Yet, all the material is assumed to > have stayed on Earth or within its grasp (forming the Moon). > > Wh > at I'm getting at is the answer to your question is no one knows, and it is > well covered in the archives since this question comes up at least once a > year. That is why tried to give a different slant on the answer this time so > the old timers aren't bored out of their mind. > > Let me leave you with this fine research question: > So, how much material, if any, could have been ejected from the collision > that created the Earth-Moon system as a result? That would be an olympic > jumping spider! > > Best wishes, > Doug > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Pete Shugar at clearwire.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:02 pm > Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > > We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. > These we know where they come from. > > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, > or maybe Earthite? > Just contemplating my navel here. > Pete > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Fri Jun 5 04:27:59 2009 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:27:59 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space In-Reply-To: <4A28AA7D.60905@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A28AA7D.60905@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4960704F@gamma.ssl.atw> Many studies have been done which suggest some microbes or Archaea could potentially survive a short trip to mars inside a rock (under perfect ideal conditions that is), even Lichen has been shown to survive in space. But the physics of a suitable impact would suggest that at best we would be talking a very limited number of very tough 'archaea' type microbes only, if at all, you are certainly not going to get any plants and animals sent to mars. So, it could only be certain select microbes which stood even a remote a chance, it's likely most would just perish after a few million years in space and never taking hold when they landed, they would after all be trapped deep inside a rock. And we don't even know if rocks actually have made it from Earth to Mars anyway, very few have I suspect, in theory they may, but in theory there should also be Venus rocks on Earth, but then we haven't found any yet?. I would guess that statistically not enough material transfer has gone on, to reliably seed mars from Earth, although in recent years I bet the Mars Landers have brought their fair share of Earth based microbe contamination, (there are rover parts that are impossible to sterilize), especially bearing in mind there are countless strange archaea that have yet to be recognized by science let alone understood. To be honest this whole Panspermia concept, has become a bit of a religion in some circles, how is it more likely that Earth was seeded by alien life than that that the Earth started life by itself? Earth is perfect for life, all the ingredients are or where present, we haven't seen anywhere else in the universe like earth for long enough, so it seems sensible to assume it all started right here... in a galaxy not so very far away.. Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites USA Sent: 05 June 2009 06:18 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space Hi list, I know I've posted a lot today, but bear with me. I've been doing some research since I found the article on the meteorite that Mars rover Opportunity found on Mars earlier and it got me to thinking about how it got there and where it was from. This led to more research and more questions... We know meteorites come from other celestial bodies, whether they be from asteroids, comets, or planets. All types of meteorites have been found on Earth but... What about the reverse? We know it happens because we have lunar and martian meteorites here on Earth. Over the last few months I've been reading about panspermia and artificial planet seeding too which are very interesting topics. You can imagine the force a huge asteroid would exert on the crust of our planet during an impact event and would eject quite a bit of material into space. This all brings up some very interesting questions... If Panspermia is a theory, then wouldn't reverse panspermia (life originating from Earth) suggest it's very plausible and not just possible to seed life on other planets from another by impact, travel and time? Having said that let me illustrate a scenario. A huge asteroid impacted Earth millions of years ago throwing millions of tons of debris into our atmosphere. Some of this debris will escape Earth's gravity and make it into space. How much is arguable. Wouldn't it be possible for some microbe or bacteria to be preserved deep inside a clump of Earth, and flash frozen in the iciness of space? How many billions of bacteria, and microbes, or even insects have been launched into space over the hundreds or even thousands of large impacts the Earth has been subject to since the beginning of time? Look at the jungles of South America and Africa and other tropical regions. The density of life in any given square foot is higher than on any other place on the planet. If a large Asteroid impacted this region you can imagine the sheer numbers of "life forms" that escaped Earth. Survivability is the issue. If the microbe or "life form" is deep enough within the stone, rock, or clump of earth, wouldn't it be preserved. wouldn't this Earth rock act as a capsule to transport life outside our own solar system? Current science tells us that the temperature of the interior of a meteoroid entering our atmosphere is relatively low. In fact it is usually ambient to space. In other words cold! Frozen even. This is sufficient to allow a microbial life form to survive isn't it? Look up Water Bear on Google... http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=artic le&sid=2905&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/081016-am-tardigrade-toughness.htm l Wouldn't this mean that there could be space rocks out there with "life" within them right now? Life that came from Earth? And if there's life out there that comes from Earth, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to guess that there might be other material out there that might just have come from another habitable solar system. I know these are big jumps and guesses, but isn't it possible considering the sheer length of time, the age of our planet, and the number of impact events over this time period on other celestial bodies and planets? I mean we are talking about billions of years here... Your thoughts? -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From jgrossman at usgs.gov Fri Jun 5 06:12:46 2009 From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 06:12:46 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop> Message-ID: <4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov> I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite. jeff Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote: > We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. > These we know where they come from. > > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, > or maybe Earthite? > Just contemplating my navel here. > Pete > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA From thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr Fri Jun 5 12:10:54 2009 From: thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr (Philippe Thomas) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:10:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - NWA 5731 thin sections images for chondrules fans Message-ID: <9785882.95536.1244218254140.JavaMail.www@wwinf1601> Dear List, I cannot resist to the temptation to show, to the fans of chondrules, the images of the thin sections (NWA 5731, LL3) which I have just obtained. Just for the pleasure of eyes, these thin sections shall be for sale to Ensisheim. These images from Damien Mollex are in a page of the new website which will be on-line in some days: http://www.meteoritica.com/nwa%205731%20thin%20sections.htm http://www.meteoritica.com/nwa 5731 thin sections.htm Enjoy, Philippe & Lea METEORITICA www.meteoritica.com From damoclid at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 12:55:09 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:55:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Series or just one? Message-ID: <114848.33500.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I was watching Meteorite Men again last night and was wondering if anyone knows if the program is a series or if it is a single, stand alone program? (Jeff or Steve?) It certainly appears to be the first in a series, but I haven't seen anything to confirm this. Thanks -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jun 5 13:08:07 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:08:07 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Thin Sections, all the cool kids are doing it! Message-ID: Hello List, I have added a few things to my Ebay Store. Some cool Oriented Gaos and other oddities. Of note is the 20% sale I am running on the Thin Sections for this weekend (starting at 1pm Eastern). They were priced low to start with. 20% off is a great deal. Even if you don't have a microscope, don't let that stop you from buying some cool and cheap thin sections. It is a great way to show people what scientists do with meteorites. You can even take polarized lenses from sunglasses and place it behind the thin section and the other one turn 90 degrees and place it in front of it, and whamo, you have a plethora of amazing colors streaming to you. It is enough to make people who can't even spell "meteorite" to say "Wow!" Join in on the fun. All the cool kids are doing it! Go ahead, I won't tell your Mom. Check them out here: http://stores.ebay.com/Steve-Arnold-Meteorites?refid=store Enjoy! Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml cntnew00000007) From damoclid at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 13:17:54 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 10:17:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men - Series or just one? Message-ID: <232423.85913.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry, Geoff... Not Jeff -- Richard From epgrondine at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 13:24:55 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 10:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination Message-ID: <107375.59519.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all - One of the big reasons for the push behind panspermia comes from the usual manned Mars flight nuts who hope to wish away the back-contamination problem. One can read Zubrin or his followers to see examples this kind of wishful hand waving and jumping and shouting (Fearing the Dragons). But Mars will have to be shown to harbor no pathogens or life before manned Mars flight with return is permitted, in my opinion. The possible consequences otherwise are a show stopper. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jun 5 14:13:21 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 11:13:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination In-Reply-To: <107375.59519.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <107375.59519.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A296041.7030205@meteoritesusa.com> Hmmm... Though related to my questions, it's not exactly what I was referring to... I'm not familiar with Zubrin, but it sounds as if it's not really something I want to get into a debate about. Your comment about pathogens and manned flight returning from Mars poses a serious implication. I was however unaware there was a "push" behind the panspermia and it's relation to back contamination... Regards, Eric E.P. Grondine wrote: > Hi all - > > One of the big reasons for the push behind panspermia comes from the usual manned Mars flight nuts who hope to wish away the back-contamination problem. > One can read Zubrin or his followers to see examples this kind of wishful hand waving and jumping and shouting (Fearing the Dragons). > > But Mars will have to be shown to harbor no pathogens or life before manned Mars flight with return is permitted, in my opinion. The possible consequences otherwise are a show stopper. > > E.P. Grondine > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jun 5 15:47:07 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 05 Jun 2009 19:47:07 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5731 thin sections images for chondrules fans Message-ID: Bonjour, salut, L?a et Philippe, > I cannot resist to the temptation to show, to the fans of chondrules, the > images of the thin sections (NWA 5731, LL3) which I have just obtained. Wow! Definitely a feast for a chondrule lover's eyes! Will have to buy a slice of NWA 5731 and a thin section (or two, maybe three ;-) at the 10th Meteorite Show in Ensisheim this year! See you in Ensisheim soon! http://www.meteoritica.com/nwa%205731%20thin%20sections.htm A bient?t ? Ensisheim, Bernd From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 16:08:47 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer Message-ID: <294076.74712.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Pete sometime let me tell you about the First Church of the Navelites.. but to your question They would be called meteorites until identified as originating from the Earth--then the debate is opened up again. Recently someone at NASA or in the IAU stated the new definition of meteorite includes any rocky object falling onto the surface of any planet should be regarded as a meteorite (my translation) I recently read a calculation of the number of Earth originating rocks gone to meteorites on the moon and on Mars and it was a fairly high number within the realistic realm of being identified as such. A further subset of missing nomenclature is what to call returning non tektite ejecta that may have orbited a while and get returned much later. The Reis impactor is a candidate for having been able to eject rocks into orbit. As I've mentioned it before, it hurled some multi-ton limestone boulders over 60 miles up a mountain side in Austria. A meteorite could not eject material into space from earth but an asteroid sized impactor most certainly has in the past. That is the physics don't prohibit it. Elton --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote: > From: Pete Shugar at clearwire.net > Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 12:02 AM > We have the Martian type meteorite, > and we have the > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. > These we know where they come from. > > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, > or maybe Earthite? > Just contemplating my navel here. > Pete > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 16:16:35 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:16:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Assorted Thin Section Images Message-ID: <299823.56480.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I thought I would add a little something to the thin section posts. I have become a very big fan of thin sections since my introduction to them. I find they offer a really unique look into just what meteorites really are. I owe a big thanks to Anthony Love at App State for sparking my interest into them as it has opened a new world up to me. I have started to get a nice collection going and would suggest for any meteorite collector to check into getting a thin section ot two when they are offered by members of the list. That said, here is a small portion of images from a few favorites in my collection. Camel Donga - Eucrite http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/CamelDongaTS1.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/CamelDongaTS2.jpg NWA 5480 - Olivine Diogenite (This looked so nice, I had a few made!) http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_5480_11.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_5480_5.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_5480_4.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_5480_3.jpg NWA 1877 - Olivine Diogenite http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA_1877_1.jpg NWA Howardite http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/HowarditeDL.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/HowarditeDL_2.jpg NWA 3140 - Ureilite http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWA3140_1.jpg A few very nice uNWA thins sections I hade made http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/GC_246-1.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSC00187.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSC00188.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSC00189.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/GC_245-1.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/GC_6_4-1.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/GC_281.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/GC_6_6-1.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/GC_6_7-1.jpg Enjoy, Greg C. From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 16:18:08 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:18:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space Message-ID: <472246.82233.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Totally agree with Mark's quote below about Panspermia. As to reverse contamination-- studies so far suggest launching and landing temperatures are sufficiently low that neither process sterilizes the cargo: Mars to Earth or Earth to Mars transport. Elton --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Mark Ford wrote: << To be honest this whole Panspermia concept, has become a bit of a religion in some circles,? how is it more likely that Earth was seeded by alien life than that that the Earth started life by itself? Earth is perfect for life, all the ingredients are or where present, we haven't seen anywhere else in the universe like earth for long enough, so it seems sensible to assume it all started right here...? in a galaxy not so very far away.. Mark>> From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 16:29:17 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 16:29:17 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space In-Reply-To: <472246.82233.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <472246.82233.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks to Eric for starting this discussion. It's been great reading - pass the popcorn. :) One thought from the peanut gallery - what if we (or some other species) accidentally "terraformed" a world by contaminating it with microbes? Imagine if a world like Mars got infected (so to speak) with a CO2-eating microbe that releases oxygen? Here the line between panspermia, contamination, and terraforming gets a little blurry. What if an intergalactic RV mistook our world for a dumping station and left us with the gift that keeps on giving? We may end up doing the same - intentionally or accidentally. Best regards, MikeG On 6/5/09, Mr EMan wrote: > > Totally agree with Mark's quote below about Panspermia. As to reverse > contamination-- studies so far suggest launching and landing temperatures > are sufficiently low that neither process sterilizes the cargo: Mars to > Earth or Earth to Mars transport. > > Elton > --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Mark Ford wrote: > > > << To be honest this whole Panspermia concept, has become a > bit of a religion in some circles, how is it more likely that > Earth was seeded by alien life than that that the Earth started life by > itself? Earth is perfect for life, all the ingredients are or where > present, we haven't seen anywhere else in the universe like earth for long > enough, so it seems sensible to assume it all started right here... > in a galaxy not so very far away.. > > Mark>> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Jun 5 16:34:09 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 14:34:09 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space References: <472246.82233.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <53327F8BC66A44939A2BA22E19CEF04F@bellatrix> There are really two kinds of panspermia. The extreme sort, which is hard to take seriously, is that life was seeded on Earth from deep space. The other, which is hard _not_ to take seriously, is that life (or its building blocks) might have been distributed within the Solar System by impacts. It is somewhat relevant to sample return missions or manned missions because if (for example) there is life on Mars that is related to life on Earth, it is much more likely to be pathogenic than any life that developed independently. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: "metlist" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 2:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space Totally agree with Mark's quote below about Panspermia. As to reverse contamination-- studies so far suggest launching and landing temperatures are sufficiently low that neither process sterilizes the cargo: Mars to Earth or Earth to Mars transport. Elton --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Mark Ford wrote: << To be honest this whole Panspermia concept, has become a bit of a religion in some circles, how is it more likely that Earth was seeded by alien life than that that the Earth started life by itself? Earth is perfect for life, all the ingredients are or where present, we haven't seen anywhere else in the universe like earth for long enough, so it seems sensible to assume it all started right here... in a galaxy not so very far away.. Mark>> From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 5 16:35:07 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:35:07 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination Message-ID: Uh oh, too late! I have a few Martian crumbs in my collection. *cough* *cough* Getting dizzy... Carl Eric wrote: ...Your comment about pathogens and manned flight returning from Mars poses a serious implication... _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jun 5 16:26:29 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 05 Jun 2009 20:26:29 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Assorted Thin Section Images Message-ID: Greg C. writes: "I thought I would add a little something to the thin section posts." A "little something" is clearly an understatement. Wow! Thanks for sharing them with us! Beautiful insights into the microcosmos of our beloved meteorites! Best wishes, Bernd From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Fri Jun 5 16:39:55 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:39:55 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia, Reverse Panspermia & Life In Space In-Reply-To: References: <472246.82233.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <37C0DC1E-E17C-4CF2-BB1F-3672C396001F@comcast.net> Test Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jun 5, 2009, at 1:29 PM, "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" wrote: > Thanks to Eric for starting this discussion. It's been great reading > - pass the popcorn. :) > > One thought from the peanut gallery - what if we (or some other > species) accidentally "terraformed" a world by contaminating it with > microbes? Imagine if a world like Mars got infected (so to speak) > with a CO2-eating microbe that releases oxygen? Here the line between > panspermia, contamination, and terraforming gets a little blurry. > What if an intergalactic RV mistook our world for a dumping station > and left us with the gift that keeps on giving? We may end up doing > the same - intentionally or accidentally. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > > On 6/5/09, Mr EMan wrote: >> >> Totally agree with Mark's quote below about Panspermia. As to reverse >> contamination-- studies so far suggest launching and landing >> temperatures >> are sufficiently low that neither process sterilizes the cargo: >> Mars to >> Earth or Earth to Mars transport. >> >> Elton >> --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Mark Ford wrote: >> >> >> << To be honest this whole Panspermia concept, has become a >> bit of a religion in some circles, how is it more likely that >> Earth was seeded by alien life than that that the Earth started >> life by >> itself? Earth is perfect for life, all the ingredients are or where >> present, we haven't seen anywhere else in the universe like earth >> for long >> enough, so it seems sensible to assume it all started right here... >> in a galaxy not so very far away.. >> >> Mark>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Jun 5 16:41:51 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 14:41:51 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination References: Message-ID: Hyperventilate and start drinking Sterno... Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl 's" To: Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination Uh oh, too late! I have a few Martian crumbs in my collection. *cough* *cough* Getting dizzy... Carl From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 5 16:52:31 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:52:31 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination Message-ID: Yes, I recall a movie about hyperventilation. Don't remember the sterno part, though. Feel better already, thanks! *wheeze* Carl _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jun 5 16:56:52 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:56:52 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer In-Reply-To: <294076.74712.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090605165652.SBIV5.249715.imail@fed1rmwml45> Elton, There you go again providing the perfect answers. Thank you. I have a few follow-up questions for you; If an Earth meteorite (terrene) were to return back to Earth, would we be able to identify it correctly? That is to say would we not simply ASSume it came from the moon? As a moon meteorite would also have Earth air or isotopes? We make new supposed Lunar meteorite discoveries with new materials all the time. So again I ask is there a way to be certain where it came from? I ask because if is not mostly plagioclase, it seems to me most investigators would simply toss it aside and say; it is not a meteorite, that is a rind or weathered Earth rock not fusion crust. So, another question would be this; if it clearly has a fusion crust complete with the gas bubbles would there be a way to prove it is in fact a genuine fusion crust??? Thanks Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 ---- Mr EMan wrote: > > Pete sometime let me tell you about the First Church of the Navelites.. but to your question > > They would be called meteorites until identified as originating from the Earth--then the debate is opened up again. > > Recently someone at NASA or in the IAU stated the new definition of meteorite includes any rocky object falling onto the surface of any planet should be regarded as a meteorite (my translation) > > I recently read a calculation of the number of Earth originating rocks gone to meteorites on the moon and on Mars and it was a fairly high number within the realistic realm of being identified as such. > > A further subset of missing nomenclature is what to call returning non tektite ejecta that may have orbited a while and get returned much later. The Reis impactor is a candidate for having been able to eject rocks into orbit. As I've mentioned it before, it hurled some multi-ton limestone boulders over 60 miles up a mountain side in Austria. > > A meteorite could not eject material into space from earth but an asteroid sized impactor most certainly has in the past. That is the physics don't prohibit it. > > Elton > --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote: > > > From: Pete Shugar at clearwire.net > > Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 12:02 AM > > We have the Martian type meteorite, > > and we have the > > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. > > These we know where they come from. > > > > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite > > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon > > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, > > or maybe Earthite? > > Just contemplating my navel here. > > Pete > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 17:04:44 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:04:44 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I caught Andromeda Strain from a Tagish Lake sample when I first started collecting. 500mg of Amoxicillin, twice a day, knocked it out pretty quick. ;) On 6/5/09, Carl 's wrote: > > > > Yes, I recall a movie about hyperventilation. Don't remember the sterno > part, though. Feel better already, thanks! *wheeze* > > Carl > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From gmhupe at htn.net Fri Jun 5 17:12:12 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:12:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination References: Message-ID: <25046B1BBA5340EDA80EC7A25CEC772C@Gregor> Better yet... I recommend 10mg of NWA 998 crumbs in a glass of champagne, followed by 20mg of NWA 482 (or 3163) in a glass of iced rum and coke (fizzles pretty well! or was that my brain?!). Don't laugh, really happened, except for the fizzled brain (but now I am beginning to wonder a few years later... :-/ Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Carl 's" Cc: Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination I caught Andromeda Strain from a Tagish Lake sample when I first started collecting. 500mg of Amoxicillin, twice a day, knocked it out pretty quick. ;) On 6/5/09, Carl 's wrote: > > > > Yes, I recall a movie about hyperventilation. Don't remember the sterno > part, though. Feel better already, thanks! *wheeze* > > Carl > > _________________________________________________________________ > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 17:23:17 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:23:17 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination In-Reply-To: <25046B1BBA5340EDA80EC7A25CEC772C@Gregor> References: <25046B1BBA5340EDA80EC7A25CEC772C@Gregor> Message-ID: All kidding aside - I had a customer tell me once, that many years ago, back in the 1950s when he was a kid, he got his hands on some trinitite and proceeded to eat a piece of it. He thought he might acquire super powers - like the comic books said at that time. After some back and forth, I determined that he was dead serious and wasn't yanking my chain. I asked him how much he ate and he says it was a small amount. I cannot help but wonder if : he developed any super powers, or if he has a case of some rare abdominal cancer brewing up and waiting to rear it's ugly head. Needless to say, I strongly advise against consuming trinitite. Besides, the mutations it bestows are random, so you might end up with superhuman fingernail growth instead of telekinesis - in addition to the weird obscure cancers. ;) Best regards, MikeG On 6/5/09, Greg Hupe wrote: > Better yet... > > I recommend 10mg of NWA 998 crumbs in a glass of champagne, followed by 20mg > of NWA 482 (or 3163) in a glass of iced rum and coke (fizzles pretty well! > or was that my brain?!). > > Don't laugh, really happened, except for the fizzled brain (but now I am > beginning to wonder a few years later... :-/ > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" > To: "Carl 's" > Cc: > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 5:04 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination > > > I caught Andromeda Strain from a Tagish Lake sample when I first > started collecting. 500mg of Amoxicillin, twice a day, knocked it out > pretty quick. ;) > > > On 6/5/09, Carl 's wrote: >> >> >> >> Yes, I recall a movie about hyperventilation. Don't remember the sterno >> part, though. Feel better already, thanks! *wheeze* >> >> Carl >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. >> http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 5 19:13:41 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 16:13:41 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination Message-ID: Greg, MikeG and All, That's why I never eat cereal while I admire my little planetary crumbs. I may inadvertanly eat them. May be a source of fiber but could ruin my day. Greg, you say the stuff fizzles? Like into nothingness? Carl _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From pshugar at clearwire.net Fri Jun 5 19:34:43 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar@clearwire.net) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:34:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] On a serious note Message-ID: <68466D5E7A3045C9ACE452B1D2B8E976@laptop> I propose an experiment...... A small container containing a mixture of gasses that are the equal to a Mars atmosphere with a mixture of some material from a Mars meteorite. (Such material needs to come from the center of the meteorite to lessen the chances of contamination from earth origins). Lighting can be tailored to match Mars as well. If this were done in something like the Lunar Lab at NASA under very controlled conditions, would our Earth organisms survive? I'm sure we could achieve an insulated container that could be turned into a small microcosm of Mars. This just might give an answer to the question of weather Earth "bugs" could survive on Mars. Pete IMCA 1733 From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 19:38:13 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 16:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination Message-ID: <703235.71467.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> On a more realistic note...(though I applaud the jocularity) The whole fear that return samples from Mars, either by robotic mission or manned, seems thoroughly irrational to me. The very idea that a microbe that MAY exist on present day Mars that will have spent 3 Aeons adapting to a cold, dry, low atmospheric pressure, slow metabolic existence would thrive inside a human body seems, frankly ludicrous. On earth, extremophiles can only exist in their own little niches because once they are out of them, they either die from conditions or competition from better adapted organisms. Given the opportunity to go to Mars, I'd be there like a shot and I'd take my chances. As for Greg's Martian Champagne. I can't help feeling we have an idea for the latest "trendy" craze to part overpaid footballers (soccer players) from their cash. I reckon you could get these self centred egotists to pay ?300 ($500) for a glass of "Rock Rose" or "Selene Rum" (registered trade marks, patent pending) as they attempt to impress their friends/one night stands and probably make enough money in a month to retire on in London. I'm gonna be rich Rob --- On Sat, 6/6/09, Carl 's wrote: > From: Carl 's > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, June 6, 2009, 12:13 AM > > > > > Greg, MikeG and All, > > That's why I never eat cereal while I admire my little > planetary crumbs. I may inadvertanly eat them. May be a > source of fiber but could ruin my day. Greg, you say the > stuff fizzles? Like into nothingness? > > Carl > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right > for you. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 20:06:19 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 17:06:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer Message-ID: <759254.46564.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> This is a recurrent theme, one I am interested in myself and when I first joined this list I heard a lot of really good stuff but never saved the mails. Earth vs lunar is quite easy to nail down. The geology of lunar meteorites tend to be rather similar despite different physical appearances. There are only 4 major minerals in lunar meteorites (which is fewer even than Holland's geology!!!!). Oh, and they're all anhydrous. So many terrestrial minerals can only be formed in the presence of water and this leads to a greater diversity of rocks here despite being isotopically matched to the moon. Everything else you pointed out seems to be hitting the nail right on the head. I've heard reports (from previous postings to this list) that suggest meteorites have been found that have been discarded because they were terrestrial. Somebody else with more experience and knowledge may want to clarify this, but wasn't Ninninger one of the people who thew out a load of meteorites because they were terrestrial and at least one other person collected stuff but never formally had them studied because he feared being ridiculed for saying his rocks were meteorites when he knew darn well the rocks were of terrestrial origin. They had clear fusion crusts and everything else. Most likely, many terrestrial meteorites would be discarded for these reasons. Once a fusion crust is gone, they'd simply be unrecognised. What it really needs is for an observed fall to be confirmed as terrestrial. Chances of that are pretty low, though. As yet, there is no observed Lunar fall and only a few martians. Rob --- On Fri, 6/5/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > From: cdtucson at cox.net > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer > To: "Mr EMan" , "meteoritelist" > Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 9:56 PM > Elton, > There you go again providing the perfect answers. Thank > you. > I have a few follow-up questions for you; > If an Earth meteorite (terrene) were to return back to > Earth, would we be able to identify it correctly? That is to > say would we not simply ASSume it came from the moon? As a > moon meteorite would also have Earth air or isotopes? We > make new supposed Lunar meteorite discoveries with new > materials all the time. So again I ask is there a way to be > certain where it came from? I ask because if is not mostly > plagioclase, it seems to me most investigators would simply > toss it aside and say; it is not a meteorite, that is a rind > or weathered Earth rock not fusion crust. So, another > question would be this; if it clearly has a fusion crust > complete with the gas bubbles would there be a way to prove > it is in fact a genuine fusion crust??? Thanks > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5829 > > > ---- Mr EMan > wrote: > > > > Pete sometime let me tell you about the First Church > of the Navelites.. but to your question > > > > They would be called meteorites until identified as > originating from the Earth--then the debate is opened up > again. > > > > Recently someone at NASA or in the IAU stated the new > definition of meteorite includes any rocky object falling > onto the surface of any planet should be regarded as a > meteorite (my translation) > > > > I recently read a calculation of the number of Earth > originating rocks gone to meteorites on the moon and on Mars > and it was a fairly high number within the realistic realm > of being identified as such. > > > > A further subset of missing nomenclature is what to > call returning non tektite ejecta that may have orbited a > while and get returned much later.? The Reis impactor > is a candidate for having been able to eject rocks into > orbit.? As I've mentioned it before, it hurled some > multi-ton limestone boulders over 60 miles up a mountain > side in Austria. > > > > A meteorite could not eject material into space from > earth but an asteroid sized impactor most certainly has in > the past.? That is the physics don't prohibit it. > > > > Elton > > --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Pete Shugar at clearwire.net > > wrote: > > > > > From: Pete Shugar at clearwire.net > > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 12:02 AM > > > We have the Martian type meteorite, > > > and we have the > > > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta > meteorite. > > > These we know where they come from. > > > > > > Now the question---given enough energy, can a > meteorite > > > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on > the moon > > > or Mars? What would we call such a > meteorite---Earthoid, > > > or maybe Earthite? > > > Just contemplating my navel here. > > > Pete > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Fri Jun 5 20:26:32 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 02:26:32 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination In-Reply-To: <703235.71467.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <703235.71467.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008d01c9e63d$71d1faf0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Btw. Are there already results of the SPORES and the MARSTOX II experiments available? Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Rob McCafferty Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Juni 2009 01:38 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination On a more realistic note...(though I applaud the jocularity) The whole fear that return samples from Mars, either by robotic mission or manned, seems thoroughly irrational to me. The very idea that a microbe that MAY exist on present day Mars that will have spent 3 Aeons adapting to a cold, dry, low atmospheric pressure, slow metabolic existence would thrive inside a human body seems, frankly ludicrous. On earth, extremophiles can only exist in their own little niches because once they are out of them, they either die from conditions or competition from better adapted organisms. Given the opportunity to go to Mars, I'd be there like a shot and I'd take my chances. As for Greg's Martian Champagne. I can't help feeling we have an idea for the latest "trendy" craze to part overpaid footballers (soccer players) from their cash. I reckon you could get these self centred egotists to pay ?300 ($500) for a glass of "Rock Rose" or "Selene Rum" (registered trade marks, patent pending) as they attempt to impress their friends/one night stands and probably make enough money in a month to retire on in London. I'm gonna be rich Rob --- On Sat, 6/6/09, Carl 's wrote: > From: Carl 's > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, June 6, 2009, 12:13 AM > > > > > Greg, MikeG and All, > > That's why I never eat cereal while I admire my little > planetary crumbs. I may inadvertanly eat them. May be a > source of fiber but could ruin my day. Greg, you say the > stuff fizzles? Like into nothingness? > > Carl > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right > for you. > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From pshugar at clearwire.net Fri Jun 5 21:32:34 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar@clearwire.net) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 20:32:34 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Addendum to "On a Serious Note" Message-ID: <4B79C7F954B74154BD5EF6E7961AAD20@laptop> Well, some further thoughts........ There are some things we would not be able to control. The gravitational field. The electrical field and it's associated magnetic field. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that there was lightning on Mars. This would provide that requsite lightning strike. An electrode passing thru the "glass wall" of the Martian Landscape.can conduct a voltage spark from a Van De Graff generator or a Tesla coil. I don't think a spark of electricity will contaminate the "soil". There is the question of micro amounts of material from the electrode being deposited inside from the discharge of the spark. I would also suggest that material from several different meteorites be in the container for the Martian soil. As to what the Earth "bug" would be that's put into Mars enviroment--- I leave this up to someone more qualified to answer. Then we have the reverse of all this should we ever discover a Mars "bug" Pete IMCA 1733 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Fri Jun 5 23:04:44 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 23:04:44 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 6, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_6_2009.html __________________________ http://www.rocksfromspace.org __________________________ **************Mortgage rates drop to record lows. $200,000 for $1,029/mo Fixed. LendingTree? (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222653866x1201461148/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.lendingtree.com%2Fborrower%2Falliance%2Ffrom.as p%3Fwhereto%3Dpromopagev3%26promo%3D00279%26loan%5Ftype%3D2%26source%3D28895 60%26esourceid%3D2889560%26800num%3D1%2D800%2D289%2D3915%26AdType%3D2) From GeoZay at aol.com Fri Jun 5 23:50:04 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 23:50:04 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Addendum to "On a Serious Note" Message-ID: This all reminds me of the experiment that Dr. Harold Urey performed many years ago that produced amino acids from inorganic chemicals that simulated an early earth environment. GeoZay >>There are some things we would not be able to control. The gravitational field. The electrical field and it's associated magnetic field. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that there was lightning on Mars. This would provide that requsite lightning strike. An electrode passing thru the "glass wall" of the Martian Landscape.can conduct a voltage spark from a Van De Graff generator or a Tesla coil. I don't think a spark of electricity will contaminate the "soil". There is the question of micro amounts of material from the electrode being deposited inside from the discharge of the spark. I would also suggest that material from several different meteorites be in the container for the Martian soil. As to what the Earth "bug" would be that's put into Mars enviroment--- I leave this up to someone more qualified to answer. Then we have the reverse of all this should we ever discover a Mars "bug">> **************Mortgage rates drop to record lows. $200,000 for $1,029/mo Fixed. LendingTree? (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222653866x1201461148/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.lendingtree.com%2Fborrower%2Falliance%2Ffrom.as p%3Fwhereto%3Dpromopagev3%26promo%3D00279%26loan%5Ftype%3D2%26source%3D28895 60%26esourceid%3D2889560%26800num%3D1%2D800%2D289%2D3915%26AdType%3D2) From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 23:58:50 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 20:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer Message-ID: <851987.85672.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> You are too kind, Carl. Let me address your questions inside your quote: --- On Fri, 6/5/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: Q: I have a few follow-up questions for you; If an Earth meteorite (terrene) were to return back to Earth, would we be able to identify it correctly? A: Yes and No. IF you look at the locations of recent major impacts(80 Million years or later) and consider the bedrock/ target rock-type at the launch origin. It narrows the filed of possible rock types. The best candidate is Reis crater in Germany which lies on limestone. The Canadian shield cluster and Popogui impacts are far too (old we think) and that leaves Chesapeake, Chicxulub, The un-named crater in the North Sea off Scotland and Wetumpka Al. So far as I know all these excavated down to deep crystalline basement rock so most have a component of igneous rock mixed with the sedimentary kinds. Statistically the older the impact the more likely that any orbitally ejected material will have already fallen back long before mankind existed. Someone somewhere did a study of the physics on what sized crater had enough energy to eject material at escape velocity and seems like it was in the range of 5 miles/8km someone with a better database might chime in. Chicxulub target rocks included slates,sandstone, sulfate rocks and weathered lavas . The sulfates are generally too fragile. Sandstone has a wide range of hardness and is more difficult to predict launch integrity and space survival. Quartzite remains the best candidate for launch, survival and recognition but Popagui in Siberia is over 200 myo(?)(Geoff Notkin knows, he fed the mosquitoes there one summer). The crystalline bedrocks are usually pyroxene, mica, feldspar, and silica(quartz) mixtures. Earth rocks tend to have larger grain and clast sizes. Certain grain sizes could only come from Earth as no other planet other than Venus could grow them. That leaves a granitoid rocks and quartzite for best chance of survival and recognition. A fusion crust on those: granite --white to brown with specs of black. Quartzite probably a frosty clear glass coating. When Limestone is heated it does not melt but turns into highly soluble lime (CaO) and Carbon dioxide ( CO2)...so there isn't a fusion crust. It would be white until the first rain. Q: That is to say would we not simply ASSume it came from the moon? As a > moon meteorite would also have Earth air or isotopes? A: Owing that the Earth and Moon came from the same stock we share the same isotope abundances so there is no isotope ratio test to differentiate them. Again grain size and clast sizes would be larger on material from Earth We make new supposed Lunar meteorite discoveries with new > materials all the time. So again I ask is there a way to be > certain where it came from? I ask because if is not mostly > plagioclase, it seems to me most investigators would simply > toss it aside and say; it is not a meteorite, that is a rind > or weathered Earth rock not fusion crust. Yes there is so much industrial slag about even regular moon meteorites look like it but I will keep looking for out of place rocks. Moon material from the Mares is hard to differentiate from earth basalt save for the clasts. The feldspars could come from anywhere in New Hampshire, Vermont-- actually most all of New England, so again anyone looking would need a very trained eye. I think the first identified Earthite will be the one that crashes through a roof and makes someone take a hard look. Right now unless it were very very old due to an extremely large orbit that took 700-1300 million years to decay-- there are no candidate craters on Earth that are in feldspar-rich bedrock that come to mind. Actually Nininger(?) or someone--found a limestone object that was reported to be a fall and in fact he thought it to be a meteorite but it was so unlike anything known it was unable to prove it. The where-a-bouts of the object is unknown. It is listed as a psuedo-meteorite in the Natural History (British) Museum's Catalog of meteorites Q: So, another > question would be this; if it clearly has a fusion crust > complete with the gas bubbles would there be a way to prove > it is in fact a genuine fusion crust??? The short answer: Cosmic ray tracks and enriched tritium from solar wind would be proof that the material had been in space. Fusion crust in my book is over rated as "proof" owing to the wide occurrence of industrial glass so widely spread on Earth AND poorly understood/recognized accurately as everyone claims fusion crust when in fact the crust is long gone and they are looking at the ablation surface. An ablation surface can look like water or wind-worn surfaces. You are Welcome, Elton From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sat Jun 6 00:26:12 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 21:26:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer Correction#1 Message-ID: <65143.37703.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> OOps Popagui is spelled Popigai and is almost the same age as Chesapeake Bay. I am aware there is a lot of brecciated quartzite in the rim so it is another candidate for producing "Earthites" Elton From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 6 01:54:43 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 00:54:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer References: <851987.85672.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <96D59AF663234A21931A29838B2F50B1@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, E and List, Bret Gladman's simulations of rocks blasted off the Earth by impact show about 50% of them being "re-captured" from independent orbits and returning as "meteorites." The time scale for re-capture varies from 10,000 years to 10,000,000 years. So, if there were any returns from the Ries impactor, they would already be here, mostly likely. Sedimentary meteorites are discussed here: http://meteorite-identification.com/mwnews/BLECKENSTAD.htm Monica Grady, looking for a possible Martian sedimentary stone, wrote a paper requesting museums and collections to look for such anomalous stones as might be found in their dusty drawers or cabinets in this publication (p. 77): http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19960027473_1996032004.pdf Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: "meteoritelist" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer > > You are too kind, Carl. Let me address your questions inside your > quote: > > --- On Fri, 6/5/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > Q: I have a few follow-up questions for you; If an Earth meteorite > (terrene) were to return back to Earth, would we be able to identify > it correctly? > > A: Yes and No. IF you look at the locations of recent major > impacts(80 Million years or later) and consider the bedrock/ target > rock-type at the launch origin. It narrows the filed of possible rock > types. > > The best candidate is Reis crater in Germany which lies on limestone. > The Canadian shield cluster and Popogui impacts are far too (old we > think) and that leaves Chesapeake, Chicxulub, The un-named crater in > the North Sea off Scotland and Wetumpka Al. So far as I know all > these excavated down to deep crystalline basement rock so most have a > component of igneous rock mixed with the sedimentary kinds. > > Statistically the older the impact the more likely that any orbitally > ejected material will have already fallen back long before mankind > existed. Someone somewhere did a study of the physics on what sized > crater had enough energy to eject material at escape velocity and > seems like it was in the range of 5 miles/8km someone with a better > database might chime in. > > Chicxulub target rocks included slates,sandstone, sulfate rocks and > weathered lavas . The sulfates are generally too fragile. Sandstone > has a wide range of hardness and is more difficult to predict launch > integrity and space survival. Quartzite remains the best candidate for > launch, survival and recognition but Popagui in Siberia is over 200 > myo(?)(Geoff Notkin knows, he fed the mosquitoes there one summer). > The crystalline bedrocks are usually pyroxene, mica, feldspar, and > silica(quartz) mixtures. Earth rocks tend to have larger grain and > clast sizes. Certain grain sizes could only come from Earth as no > other planet other than Venus could grow them. > > That leaves a granitoid rocks and quartzite for best chance of > survival and recognition. A fusion crust on those: granite --white to > brown with specs of black. Quartzite probably a frosty clear glass > coating. > > When Limestone is heated it does not melt but turns into highly > soluble lime (CaO) and Carbon dioxide ( CO2)...so there isn't a fusion > crust. It would be white until the first rain. > > Q: That is to say would we not simply ASSume it came from the moon? As > a >> moon meteorite would also have Earth air or isotopes? > > A: Owing that the Earth and Moon came from the same stock we share the > same isotope abundances so there is no isotope ratio test to > differentiate them. Again grain size and clast sizes would be larger > on material from Earth > > We make new supposed Lunar meteorite discoveries with new >> materials all the time. So again I ask is there a way to be >> certain where it came from? I ask because if is not mostly >> plagioclase, it seems to me most investigators would simply >> toss it aside and say; it is not a meteorite, that is a rind >> or weathered Earth rock not fusion crust. > > Yes there is so much industrial slag about even regular moon > meteorites look like it but I will keep looking for out of place > rocks. Moon material from the Mares is hard to differentiate from > earth basalt save for the clasts. The feldspars could come from > anywhere in New Hampshire, Vermont-- actually most all of New England, > so again anyone looking would need a very trained eye. I think the > first identified Earthite will be the one that crashes through a roof > and makes someone take a hard look. > > Right now unless it were very very old due to an extremely large orbit > that took 700-1300 million years to decay-- there are no candidate > craters on Earth that are in feldspar-rich bedrock that come to mind. > > Actually Nininger(?) or someone--found a limestone object that was > reported to be a fall and in fact he thought it to be a meteorite but > it was so unlike anything known it was unable to prove it. The > where-a-bouts of the object is unknown. It is listed as a > psuedo-meteorite in the Natural History (British) Museum's Catalog of > meteorites > > Q: So, another >> question would be this; if it clearly has a fusion crust >> complete with the gas bubbles would there be a way to prove >> it is in fact a genuine fusion crust??? > > The short answer: Cosmic ray tracks and enriched tritium from solar > wind would be proof that the material had been in space. Fusion crust > in my book is over rated as "proof" owing to the wide occurrence of > industrial glass so widely spread on Earth AND poorly > understood/recognized accurately as everyone claims fusion crust when > in fact the crust is long gone and they are looking at the ablation > surface. An ablation surface can look like water or wind-worn > surfaces. > > You are Welcome, Elton > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 6 01:56:28 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 00:56:28 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] On a serious note References: <68466D5E7A3045C9ACE452B1D2B8E976@laptop> Message-ID: Hi, Pete, List These experiments have been done, starting early in the 1950's. They were called "Mars Jars"! In general, the answer is that Earthly life of the simple and tough varieties does very well in a wide range of other-worldly environments. This without enough time to genetically adapt to them very much. No doubt in my mind that if we humans travel around the solar system and/or the rest of universe we will, intentionally or inadvertently, drag our terrestrial biota with us. Just look at the spread of invasive species on our own planet -- it's basically uncontrollable in the long term. If there is no life on other worlds now, there will be once we visit. If the kinds of life we know of can adapt and thrive (given billions of years) on the hell-hole this planet was in its beginnings, it can do it anywhere. A fair number of tested microbes did well on Mars Jars. Lichens (primitive plants) did well also. Mark mentioned the Tardigrades, or Water Bears. They did fine in the Mars Jars, all kinds of Mars Jars. If I were going to Mars, I'd hide some Tardi's in my luggage and sprinkle them anywhere that looked wet... Tardigrades are animals just like us -- well, from an alien perspective, they're just like us, legs and heads and eyes and mouths, same organs, even though they are tiny and waddle as they walk. Besides all the Mars Jars tests, there have been tests of growing Earthly plants at Martian pressures (but warmer temperatures) and vegetables do very well if we keep them from freezing. Here's a picture of lettuce in the Martian air: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061009131008.htm Do they have Ranch dressing on Mars? What you have to remember is that lifeforms only need to get a toe-hold and hang on long enough for adaptations that further their survival in that environment to build up. Studies suggest that "contamination" is pretty much inevitable: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7454-earth-microbes-may-survive-on-mars.html To the dismay of the germophobic, larger lifeforms on the Earth swim in a sea of trillions of microbes, are themselves forests full of microbes, drip microbes with every step. Dig a teaspoon of dirt out of your yard; it has a billion inhabitants. Life on Earth is a "life soup." If we go anywhere else in the universe, the rest of Earth's life will go with us, sooner or later, for better or for worse. Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Shugar at clearwire.net" To: Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 6:34 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] On a serious note >I propose an experiment...... > A small container containing a mixture of gasses > that are the equal to a Mars atmosphere with > a mixture of some material from a Mars meteorite. > (Such material needs to come from the center of the meteorite to > lessen the chances of contamination > from earth origins). > Lighting can be tailored to match Mars as well. > If this were done in something like the Lunar Lab > at NASA under very controlled conditions, would our Earth organisms > survive? > I'm sure we could achieve an insulated container > that could be turned into a small microcosm of Mars. > This just might give an answer to the question of weather > Earth "bugs" could survive on Mars. > Pete IMCA 1733 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Jun 6 02:05:44 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 00:05:44 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination References: <703235.71467.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >The whole fear that return samples from Mars, either >by robotic mission or manned, seems thoroughly irrational to me. I think that's a little extreme, but I certainly agree with you that any life on Mars is very unlikely to be pathogenic. On Earth, only a tiny percentage of microbes are pathogens, and the majority of those have evolved as such in concert with our own evolution. Pathogens and their hosts are, quite literally, made for each other. Still, some microbes are incredibly hardy, and the potential that something from either planet might become an invasive species on the other (with unknown environmental consequences) should at least be taken into consideration when designing missions. If nothing else, any cross contamination could thoroughly ruin the quality of science that can be performed. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCafferty" To: Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination > > On a more realistic note...(though I applaud the jocularity) > > The whole fear that return samples from Mars, either by robotic mission or > manned, seems thoroughly irrational to me. > > The very idea that a microbe that MAY exist on present day Mars that will > have spent 3 Aeons adapting to a cold, dry, low atmospheric pressure, slow > metabolic existence would thrive inside a human body seems, frankly > ludicrous. > > On earth, extremophiles can only exist in their own little niches because > once they are out of them, they either die from conditions or competition > from better adapted organisms. > > Given the opportunity to go to Mars, I'd be there like a shot and I'd take > my chances. > > As for Greg's Martian Champagne. I can't help feeling we have an idea for > the latest "trendy" craze to part overpaid footballers (soccer players) > from their cash. > I reckon you could get these self centred egotists to pay ?300 ($500) for > a glass of "Rock Rose" or "Selene Rum" (registered trade marks, patent > pending) as they attempt to impress their friends/one night stands and > probably make enough money in a month to retire on in London. > > I'm gonna be rich > > Rob From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 6 02:16:56 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 01:16:56 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Microbes on Mars get a negative report Message-ID: <330296AD4C72405CADC65FC0E4C2E595@ATARIENGINE2> Just out today: a study that Earth microbes would not do well on Mars: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090604-am-mars-microbe.html Clearly, opinion is all over the map on this. Sterling K. Webb From mexicodoug at aim.com Sat Jun 6 03:34:00 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 03:34:00 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop> <4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov> Message-ID: <8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com> Dr. Grossman wrote: "I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite." Hi Jeff, Definitely those are viable options, though I think this subject would spark more debate than Pluto, Plutonian and Plutonic in these extended circles if it ever had a type specimen. I think the name "TELLURIAN", the adjective (From TELLUS[Earth]) might be another option, and perhaps more harmonic. Given the confusion and stigma with "terrestrial" in meteoritics frequently being used to describe meteorwrongs, I think this third choice could be considered on equal footing without having the baggage. Do I recall many scientists objecting for example to the useage of "plutonic" as an adjective for Plutoness? Utilizing Mars as an example and considering the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some authors these days rather than "Terra Mater", the Roman goddess. As for Terran, it sounds a bit far fetched to me, but hey... For meteorite collectors who will no doubt be the first to collect these so far legendary things, it seems our examples: martian meteorite (martian for short) lunar meteorite (lunar for short, ocassionally the throat-twisting lunaite) ...why not: tellurian meteorite (tellurian for short) Tellus, the equivalent Roman Earth goddess as Terra Mater, which further rounds out the Earth-panteon of Roman possibilities, seems almost a natural option and probably just slipped your list. I didn't mention tellurite since there is already a mineral named this with a cool blue subadamantine sheen...chemists (who as we know generally don't get no respect from geologists) that discovered the metallic element opted for Tellurium to name it after Earth, of course, for similar considerations we have now, and probably too avoid confusion with terrariums, those fish tanks filled with dirt. Ironically, Earth's crust is astonishingly poor in this element, vs. meteorites and the cosmos in general. Well, they were chemists after all. So "Terran meteorite" might have an edge here is you like to say Terraite three times fast. (If someone likes tongue-twisters, how about, five times fast, "Terr's Tertiary temper terrified Terry the teary Terran from Tetroe." got to roll the rr's ad pronounce it Tee-troe. Anway, tellurian and terran sounds like great candidates to me. Considering the hard sound of Terran, which sounds a lot like "dirt" (real dumb joke alert) and might give us customs problems when we get our space faring passports or ship meteorites around the Solar system, not to mention hurt meteorite dealers' sales... In any case, I'll wait for the first guy who breaks the myth and recovers material for science to Tellus what to call it. (oops, never hear the end of that one) Hoping to escape this heat and join the Telluridian Festivarians for the Solstice, Doug (chemist) -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Grossman Sent: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite.? ? jeff? ? Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote:? > We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the? > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite.? > These we know where they come from.? >? > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite? > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon? > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid,? > or maybe Earthite?? > Just contemplating my navel here.? > Pete? >? > ______________________________________________? > http://www.meteoritecentral.com? > Meteorite-list mailing list? > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? >? ? -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184? US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383? 954 National Center? Reston, VA 20192, USA? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? From rlenssen at planet.nl Sat Jun 6 03:41:12 2009 From: rlenssen at planet.nl (Rob Lenssen) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 09:41:12 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: type 3 chondrites Message-ID: Hi List, I have three small samples of type 3 chondrites NWA 5729 and NWA 5730 ending at Ebay today: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/rob1612mar Thanks, Rob IMCA #1681 From mexicodoug at aim.com Sat Jun 6 04:20:21 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 04:20:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination In-Reply-To: References: <703235.71467.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CBB496C33B2D9F-1054-2268@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com> "Pathogens and their hosts are, quite literally, made for each other." I understand this statement but disagree with it in the terms of the current debate. It presupposes our thoughts from our experience with life on earth and the equilibrium life has here. At a basic level we are just bags of sugars, proteins and fats. Detritus on earth can be eaten by millions of organisms - just about any organic materials and then there are even critters that can deal with sulfur and nitrogen bases in extreme environments. How many microorganisms can live in detrital composts on Earth? What prevents them from eating organisms that are alive? It is more a one way protection developed by the living host in this convergence, but not necessarily a handicap for the invasive. If the host had no basis for an immune response, microorganisms would eat people alive just as easily as detritus on Earth, like the massacre that happened during the Spanish Conquest of Native America. I guess the question you might raise is: But if Martian microbes had nothing like flesh to eat how would they suddenly become human flesh-eating nanobacteria or whatever, here? Given the harsh Martian environment they ought to be fairly omnivore and if we are presupposing some kind of cellular life (this being subject to another debate) I don't see it as far fetched. Really, if the "Martian pathogen" found anything at all to eat on the smorgasbord of earth it could trash our ecosystem by hitting any level of our equilibrium without being harmful at all directly to humans. It might even be passive and like our oceans and be super-photosynthetic, and as an example peacefully co-exist except for non-stop peeing of cyanide or something such, into the oceans...a la movie Sunshine (2007), the greenhouse in the Icarus 1. Best wishes, Doug PS, the good thing is ... scientists, instead of our immune systems, probably could devise treatments fairly easily, pretty much due to the absence of "being made for each other" (= able to fight back via convergent evolution) cited. -----Original Message----- From: Chris Peterson To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 1:05 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination >The whole fear that return samples from Mars, either? >by robotic mission or manned, seems thoroughly irrational to me.? ? I think that's a little extreme, but I certainly agree with you that any life on Mars is very unlikely to be pathogenic. On Earth, only a tiny percentage of microbes are pathogens, and the majority of those have evolved as such in concert with our own evolution. Pathogens and their hosts are, quite literally, made for each other.? ? Still, some microbes are incredibly hardy, and the potential that something from either planet might become an invasive=2 0species on the other (with unknown environmental consequences) should at least be taken into consideration when designing missions. If nothing else, any cross contamination could thoroughly ruin the quality of science that can be performed.? ? Chris? ? *****************************************? Chris L Peterson? Cloudbait Observatory? http://www.cloudbait.com? ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCafferty" ? To: ? Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 5:38 PM? Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination? ? >? > On a more realistic note...(though I applaud the jocularity)? >? > The whole fear that return samples from Mars, either by robotic mission or > manned, seems thoroughly irrational to me.? >? > The very idea that a microbe that MAY exist on present day Mars that will > have spent 3 Aeons adapting to a cold, dry, low atmospheric pressure, slow > metabolic existence would thrive inside a human body seems, frankly > ludicrous.? >? > On earth, extremophiles can only exist in their own little niches because > once they are out of them, they either die from conditions or competition > from better adapted organisms.? >? > Given the opportunity to go to Mars, I'd be there like a shot and I'd take > my chances.? >? > As for Greg's Martian Champagne. I20can't help feeling we have an idea for > the latest "trendy" craze to part overpaid footballers (soccer players) > from their cash.? > I reckon you could get these self centred egotists to pay ?300 ($500) for > a glass of "Rock Rose" or "Selene Rum" (registered trade marks, patent > pending) as they attempt to impress their friends/one night stands and > probably make enough money in a month to retire on in London.? >? > I'm gonna be rich? >? > Rob? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sat Jun 6 08:20:08 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 05:20:08 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite magazine: Celebrating O. Richard Norton's life In-Reply-To: <66717.35236.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4A20A56F.2010905@meteoritesusa.com> <599112.98628.qm@web83813.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <6b7d6d55911c48b593e86d4cc284a82c.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> <66717.35236.qm@web32501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Ruben: WIll you be writing something for this? LArry > > Outstanding!???? Thank you Larry and Nancy Lebofsky! > > ??Ruben Garcia > Phoenix, Arizona > My Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net > My Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ > My Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu" > To: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:44:57 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite magazine: Celebrating O. Richard > Norton's life > > Dear Friends: > > As most of you are aware, O. Richard Norton was a supporter of and > involved with "Meteorite" magazine from the very beginning, He wrote his > first article, ???Meteorites???Chips off the Old Asteroid Block,??? in the > first > issue of "Meteorite!" in 1995. He also wrote ???Centerpiece??? for ten > years. > We will all miss him. > > Because of this, we would like to celebrate the life Richard Norton by > dedicating the November issue of "Meteorite" magazine to him. Many of you > have written to the Meteorite and IMCA lists expressing your feelings and, > in some cases, giving your personal experiences with Richard or with one > of the many books he has written. > > We would like to include a series of anecdotes about your personal > experiences with Richard (or one of his many books) that can be published > in the November issue. As much as possible, we would like to do this as a > historical sequence with pictures, to show who he has influenced in the > meteorite community, in what way, and when. How far back does his > influence go? Ron Hartman and Richard were at UCLA together and Nancy took > an astronomy class and a photography class from him in 1974 and 1975 when > he was the Director of the Grace H. Flandrau Planetarium here in Tucson. > > Please try to limit your text to one or two images and about a hundred > words! > > Please send your emails directly to us at: > > lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu and copy to llebofsky at gmail.com > > Thanks to all of you in advance. > > Larry and Nancy Lebofsky > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Sat Jun 6 09:48:59 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 07:48:59 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination References: <703235.71467.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <8CBB496C33B2D9F-1054-2268@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <71C1D2DE50D04C0E90DFE00CDF43F31A@bellatrix> Our bodies are extremely difficult environments for microbes- much worse than, say, a geothermal vent a few miles down. Your suggestion that Martian microorganisms might have a feast when presented with humans should apply equally well to Earth organisms, most of which have never encountered us and could potentially use us as hosts. But in fact, Earthly microorganisms normally don't do that. We can enter all sorts of unusual environments here, and be exposed to millions of new kinds of microbes, and not encounter any that are pathogenic. I think (and I know its a pretty commonly held opinion by exobiologists) that the likelihood of a microbe that evolved on another planet being pathogenic is extremely small. But not zero, of course, which is why the possibility shouldn't be ignored. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" To: ; Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 2:20 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Panspermia and Mars back contamination "Pathogens and their hosts are, quite literally, made for each other." I understand this statement but disagree with it in the terms of the current debate. It presupposes our thoughts from our experience with life on earth and the equilibrium life has here. At a basic level we are just bags of sugars, proteins and fats. Detritus on earth can be eaten by millions of organisms - just about any organic materials and then there are even critters that can deal with sulfur and nitrogen bases in extreme environments. How many microorganisms can live in detrital composts on Earth? What prevents them from eating organisms that are alive? It is more a one way protection developed by the living host in this convergence, but not necessarily a handicap for the invasive. If the host had no basis for an immune response, microorganisms would eat people alive just as easily as detritus on Earth, like the massacre that happened during the Spanish Conquest of Native America. I guess the question you might raise is: But if Martian microbes had nothing like flesh to eat how would they suddenly become human flesh-eating nanobacteria or whatever, here? Given the harsh Martian environment they ought to be fairly omnivore and if we are presupposing some kind of cellular life (this being subject to another debate) I don't see it as far fetched. Really, if the "Martian pathogen" found anything at all to eat on the smorgasbord of earth it could trash our ecosystem by hitting any level of our equilibrium without being harmful at all directly to humans. It might even be passive and like our oceans and be super-photosynthetic, and as an example peacefully co-exist except for non-stop peeing of cyanide or something such, into the oceans...a la movie Sunshine (2007), the greenhouse in the Icarus 1. Best wishes, Doug PS, the good thing is ... scientists, instead of our immune systems, probably could devise treatments fairly easily, pretty much due to the absence of "being made for each other" (= able to fight back via convergent evolution) cited. From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sat Jun 6 10:12:53 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:12:53 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop><4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov> <8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hiho Doug, >the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some >authors these days rather. Cicero: "ille globus quae terra dicitur.." That ball, we call Earth. In principle "tellus" and "terra" are synonyms, but "tellus" is more poetic, means more the goddess, the Earth as center of the world, in opposite to a celestial body; while "terra" means more the physical matter, the Earth as whole physical entity (in fact as planet, as celestial body, if they wouldn't have had a geocentric system)and also as one of the elements (water, fire..). Although for the elements only, there for was also "solum", means also earth, used, especially in opposite to the element water - see also today "solid". And additionally in the meaning of "land" "ground", "bottom". Finally there is still "humus" for earth. That means earth in the sense of the hierarchic system of the spheres, where the sphere of the element earth was in the center of the universe, (below the sphere of water, below the sphere of air...). So it means the lowest, the inmost. (humble, humiliate ect.). "Tellurem pro terra posuit, quum tellurem deam dicamus, terram elementum." Maurus Servius Honoratus (a grammarian around AD 420) Uh my Latin... well he says, fort he goddess "tellus", fort he element "terra". Hmmm I would say, from the Roman ancient world until the modern times, "terra" was more in use to denominate Earth as planet. (Also because of the Christian tradition, as "terra" is used in the Latin bible. See also Augustinus). So perhaps we should stay with Terra? The adjective to Terra in Latin would be "terrenus". So probably "Terran meteorite" would be correct. Exist also Latin "terrestris", but that means rather "located on Earth, part of the Earth", so we could leave "terrestrial" for pseudo-meteorites. (btw. Mars, Martis --> Martian. (Martinus, says Martin, the Martian). Mercur, Mercuris ---> Mercurian. Venus, Veneris ---> Venerian. (cause I read somewhere Venusian) Hmm the Doug "Dawn"-space probe is on the way to Vesta. Vestalian meteorites sounds a little bit....) Uuuuuuh, a posting like from one of those class mates from the 1st row, you never wanted to be friend with...(Don't know the right expression. Geek? Swot?..) Have a nice weekend! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Mexicodoug Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Juni 2009 09:34 An: jgrossman at usgs.gov; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? Dr. Grossman wrote: "I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite." Hi Jeff, Definitely those are viable options, though I think this subject would spark more debate than Pluto, Plutonian and Plutonic in these extended circles if it ever had a type specimen. I think the name "TELLURIAN", the adjective (From TELLUS[Earth]) might be another option, and perhaps more harmonic. Given the confusion and stigma with "terrestrial" in meteoritics frequently being used to describe meteorwrongs, I think this third choice could be considered on equal footing without having the baggage. Do I recall many scientists objecting for example to the useage of "plutonic" as an adjective for Plutoness? Utilizing Mars as an example and considering the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some authors these days rather than "Terra Mater", the Roman goddess. As for Terran, it sounds a bit far fetched to me, but hey... For meteorite collectors who will no doubt be the first to collect these so far legendary things, it seems our examples: martian meteorite (martian for short) lunar meteorite (lunar for short, ocassionally the throat-twisting lunaite) ...why not: tellurian meteorite (tellurian for short) Tellus, the equivalent Roman Earth goddess as Terra Mater, which further rounds out the Earth-panteon of Roman possibilities, seems almost a natural option and probably just slipped your list. I didn't mention tellurite since there is already a mineral named this with a cool blue subadamantine sheen...chemists (who as we know generally don't get no respect from geologists) that discovered the metallic element opted for Tellurium to name it after Earth, of course, for similar considerations we have now, and probably too avoid confusion with terrariums, those fish tanks filled with dirt. Ironically, Earth's crust is astonishingly poor in this element, vs. meteorites and the cosmos in general. Well, they were chemists after all. So "Terran meteorite" might have an edge here is you like to say Terraite three times fast. (If someone likes tongue-twisters, how about, five times fast, "Terr's Tertiary temper terrified Terry the teary Terran from Tetroe." got to roll the rr's ad pronounce it Tee-troe. Anway, tellurian and terran sounds like great candidates to me. Considering the hard sound of Terran, which sounds a lot like "dirt" (real dumb joke alert) and might give us customs problems when we get our space faring passports or ship meteorites around the Solar system, not to mention hurt meteorite dealers' sales... In any case, I'll wait for the first guy who breaks the myth and recovers material for science to Tellus what to call it. (oops, never hear the end of that one) Hoping to escape this heat and join the Telluridian Festivarians for the Solstice, Doug (chemist) -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Grossman Sent: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite.? ? jeff? ? Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote:? > We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the? > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite.? > These we know where they come from.? >? > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite? > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon? > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid,? > or maybe Earthite?? > Just contemplating my navel here.? > Pete? >? > ______________________________________________? > http://www.meteoritecentral.com? > Meteorite-list mailing list? > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? >? ? -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184? US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383? 954 National Center? Reston, VA 20192, USA? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at tektiteinc.com Sat Jun 6 15:18:56 2009 From: info at tektiteinc.com (info at tektiteinc.com) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 15:18:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - SALE 50% Off all Rizalites on TektiteInc.com SALE Message-ID: <53687.127.0.0.1.1244315936.squirrel@syd-srv07.ezyreg.com> Hi all, Im having a 50% off Sale for all the Rizalites on my website to make room for a new hobby of mine so please have a look. Im going to have this sale on for 1 month. Free shipping will not be included in this Sale. The breakdown of the shipping charges are below: Under 150g $8 Between 150g to 400g $12 Between 400g to 900g $28 Please note that I do not charge extra or charge a handling fee for my shipping. This pricing is what Phil Post charges me. However, FedEx is offering a special for my business' company account which means I can send specimens that weigh in between 400grams - 900grams for just a couple bucks more than the $28 cost for Air Mail but I will shoulder this cost so that you receive your package a lot faster than my regular Air Mail postage. Thanks for looking. Cheers, Desmond Leong IMCA #2254 http://www.TektiteInc.com http://stores.ebay.com/Tektite-Inc http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtektiteinc-dot-com From mexicodoug at aim.com Sat Jun 6 18:40:21 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 18:40:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop><4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov><8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com> <009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> Hiho Mr. Martindale, (Isn't Miss Martindale a Tellurian? UK humor) The adjective already in the language defined in the more limited manner we want is TERRENE. So throw out TERRAN and use TERRENE and I'm fine, are you? --------------------------------- I didn't think so... all right...mmmm, I'll plug and grind away at some of your reply which seemed to unnecessarily and possibly incorrectly to look to Latin to make up words and take the ancients out of context ... Back to reality, and plain English. (The Italians can debate whether Terran works for them, but that seems like a silly argument for English. "Terran" is not a generally accepted English word that evokes sci-fi to meant it was not my intent to make up new words when sufficient words already exist in plain English - that was the real reason I called it a "sci-fi" word. I do not feel it is in a mere mortal's place to modify the dictionary any more than a fire hydrant. TERRESTRIAL is the word, if we didn't happen to live here and already have plenty of uses for it w/r to meteorites and geology IMO - it seems you are sympathetic to the idea that "terrestrial" has meteorwrong, pseudometeorite, etc. as unwanted confusion and baggage. Besides since all the Inner planets are terrestrial, they are terrestrial meteorites if you want to get picky, vs. cometary, etc. Then weathering, terrestrialization ... Just way too much confusion. So I think TERRENE and TELLURIAN (consistently defined as from earth without inventing a new word) are both fine and not exclusive (of course not, they are words common man has every right to use) any more than calling something a Martian meteorite or a Mars meteorite - where both descriptors are OK. If you want to look for obscure or invented words, TERRAN is great, too, I suppose, as long as you find one first and publish the precedent. Else, I don't agree. Quoting Cicero (unless you mean the guy from Sky & Tel), won't get you any points unless you do a dissertation on what was going on in people's minds back then! Earth was an element, comparable to air and water, not a planet in a modern sense. How do I know Cicero wasn't being sarcastic? Your liberty with the translation of the word dicitur, you try to pass it with authority(!) as nominative and tending to exclusive...hmmm.... perhaps is just means "say", as in this land for which we say dirt? I don't see it very important either way as there is no need to be dweebish (the word you were looking for) by taking quotes out of context of a near dead though beautiful language since OE and Webster's dictionaries have all we need in boldface. In German, Terran might be the right word - no problem! As for the comments about the "poetic negative" for tellurian, you totally lost me there and let me add gender as a factor, is Terran more macho and Tellurian more effeminate and is that you basis - well, earth out to be effeminate as it is named after a woman...like Venus. Mars is masculine sure... I already gave you the support of the periodic chart of the elements tellurium ("from the earth"), which should be enough to earn a place. It may be that some Germans think the entire English Language sounds poetic compared to theirs! When you discuss by some weird logic I don't follow that this poetic stuff extends to it being the goddess as opposed to the planet, I only wish Mr. Peabody were here to send you to have a face to face with the Legions in the WayBack Machine, the you could see that the planets got their names from Gods that represented them, like Jupiter, Mars, Mercury and Venus. Do we call something Jupiteran or Jupiterian? No we call it Jovian. Why? Because it is the word in the dictionary, from Jove, btw, the "poetic" form of Jupiter. That's how adjectives can be ... For parallel logic, you can't help but trip over "Tellurian". I think you would find that the ancients had no reasonable vocabulary to describe adjectives for the Earth as a planet because regardless of what shape they thought it had, it was still the the point of reference for the Universe, and was a different animal from the planets they named. That is why terra means dirt in Italian and Portuguese today. At best it would probably have more to do with the concept of "the world" Mundus or whatever the Latin folk have. The English word for that which has as one definition meaning terrestrial is mundane. So if you want to add "MUNDANE" to the pot , be my guest. And Earth Meteorites seems fine too :) You might take a look at this which I just found, and I was happy to see the sci-fi comment by whoever wrote the current version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexicography_of_Earth Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Martin Altmann To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 9:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? Hiho Doug, >the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some >authors these days rather. Cicero: "ille globus quae terra dicitur.." That ball, we call Earth. In principle "tellus" and "terra" are synonyms, but "tellus" is more poetic, means more the goddess, the Earth as center of the world, in opposite to a celestial body; while "terra" means more the physical matter, the Earth as whole physical entity (in fact as planet, as celestial body, if they wouldn't have had a geocentric system)and also as one of the elements (water, fire..). Although for the elements only, there for was also "solum", means also earth, used, especially in opposite to the element water - see also today "solid". =0 AAnd additionally in the meaning of "land" "ground", "bottom". Finally there is still "humus" for earth. That means earth in the sense of the hierarchic system of the spheres, where the sphere of the element earth was in the center of the universe, (below the sphere of water, below the sphere of air...). So it means the lowest, the inmost. (humble, humiliate ect.). "Tellurem pro terra posuit, quum tellurem deam dicamus, terram elementum." Maurus Servius Honoratus (a grammarian around AD 420) Uh my Latin... well he says, fort he goddess "tellus", fort he element "terra". Hmmm I would say, from the Roman ancient world until the modern times, "terra" was more in use to denominate Earth as planet. (Also because of the Christian tradition, as "terra" is used in the Latin bible. See also Augustinus). So perhaps we should stay with Terra? The adjective to Terra in Latin would be "terrenus". So probably "Terran meteorite" would be correct. Exist also Latin "terrestris", but that means rather "located on Earth, part of the Earth", so we could leave "terrestrial" for pseudo-meteorites. (btw. Mars, Martis --> Martian. (Martinus, says Martin, the Martian). Mercur, Mercuris ---> Mercurian. Venus, Veneris ---> Venerian. (cause I read somewhere Venusian) Hmm the Doug "Dawn"-space probe is on the way to Vesta. Vestalian meteorites sounds a little bit....) Uuuuuuh, a posting like from one of those class mates from th e 1st row, you never wanted to be friend with...(Don't know the right expression. Geek? Swot?..) Have a nice weekend! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Mexicodoug Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Juni 2009 09:34 An: jgrossman at usgs.gov; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? Dr. Grossman wrote: "I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite." Hi Jeff, Definitely those are viable options, though I think this subject would spark more debate than Pluto, Plutonian and Plutonic in these extended circles if it ever had a type specimen. I think the name "TELLURIAN", the adjective (From TELLUS[Earth]) might be another option, and perhaps more harmonic. Given the confusion and stigma with "terrestrial" in meteoritics frequently being used to describe meteorwrongs, I think this third choice could be considered on equal footing without having the baggage. Do I recall many scientists objecting for example to the useage of "plutonic" as an adjective for Plutoness? Utilizing Mars as an example and considering the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some authors these days rather than "Terra Mater", the Roman goddess. As for Terran, it sounds a bit far fetched to me, but hey... For meteorite collectors who will no do ubt be the first to collect these so far legendary things, it seems our examples: martian meteorite (martian for short) lunar meteorite (lunar for short, ocassionally the throat-twisting lunaite) ...why not: tellurian meteorite (tellurian for short) Tellus, the equivalent Roman Earth goddess as Terra Mater, which further rounds out the Earth-panteon of Roman possibilities, seems almost a natural option and probably just slipped your list. I didn't mention tellurite since there is already a mineral named this with a cool blue subadamantine sheen...chemists (who as we know generally don't get no respect from geologists) that discovered the metallic element opted for Tellurium to name it after Earth, of course, for similar considerations we have now, and probably too avoid confusion with terrariums, those fish tanks filled with dirt. Ironically, Earth's crust is astonishingly poor in this element, vs. meteorites and the cosmos in general. Well, they were chemists after all. So "Terran meteorite" might have an edge here is you like to say Terraite three times fast. (If someone likes tongue-twisters, how about, five times fast, "Terr's Tertiary temper terrified Terry the teary Terran from Tetroe." got to roll the rr's ad pronounce it Tee-troe. Anway, tellurian and terran sounds like great candidates to me. Considering the hard sound of Terran, which sounds a lot like "dirt" (real dumb joke alert) and might give us customs problems when we get our space faring passports or ship meteorites around the Solar system, not to mention hurt meteorite dealers' sales... In any case, I'll wait for the first guy who breaks the myth and recovers material for science to Tellus what to call it. (oops, never hear the end of that one) Hoping to escape this heat and join the Telluridian Festivarians for the Solstice, Doug (chemist) -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Grossman Sent: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite.? ? jeff? ? Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote:? > We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the? > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite.? > These we know where they come from.? >? > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite? > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon? > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid,? > or maybe Earthite?? > Just contemplating my navel here.? > Pete? >? > ______________________________________________? > http://www.meteoritecentral.com? > Meteorite-list mailing list? > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? >? ? -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184? US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383? 954 National Center? Reston, VA 20192, USA? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Sat Jun 6 19:09:43 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:09:43 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop><4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov><8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com> <009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <073F5524-4B4A-4A18-AE44-2ED6A28BE63F@comcast.net> Can we find one first before 1000 emails to the list over this stupid thread? Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jun 6, 2009, at 3:40 PM, Mexicodoug wrote: > Hiho Mr. Martindale, (Isn't Miss Martindale a Tellurian? UK humor) > > The adjective already in the language defined in the more limited > manner we want is TERRENE. So throw out TERRAN and use TERRENE and > I'm fine, are you? > > --------------------------------- > > I didn't think so... all right...mmmm, I'll plug and grind away at > some of your reply which seemed to unnecessarily and possibly > incorrectly to look to Latin to make up words and take the ancients > out of context ... > > Back to reality, and plain English. (The Italians can debate whether > Terran works for them, but that seems like a silly argument for > English. "Terran" is not a generally accepted English word that > evokes sci-fi to meant it was not my intent to make up new words > when sufficient words already exist in plain English - that was the > real reason I called it a "sci-fi" word. I do not feel it is in a > mere mortal's place to modify the dictionary any more than a fire > hydrant. > > TERRESTRIAL is the word, if we didn't happen to live here and > already have plenty of uses for it w/r to meteorites and geology IMO > - it seems you are sympathetic to the idea that "terrestrial" has > meteorwrong, pseudometeorite, etc. as unwanted confusion and > baggage. Besides since all the Inner planets are terrestrial, they > are terrestrial meteorites if you want to get picky, vs. cometary, > etc. Then weathering, terrestrialization ... Just way too much > confusion. > > So I > think TERRENE and TELLURIAN (consistently defined as from earth > without inventing a new word) are both fine and not exclusive (of > course not, they are words common man has every right to use) any > more than calling something a Martian meteorite or a Mars meteorite > - where both descriptors are OK. If you want to look for obscure or > invented words, TERRAN is great, too, I suppose, as long as you find > one first and publish the precedent. Else, I don't agree. > > Quoting Cicero (unless you mean the guy from Sky & Tel), won't get > you any points unless you do a dissertation on what was going on in > people's minds back then! Earth was an element, comparable to air > and water, not a planet in a modern sense. > > How do I know Cicero wasn't being sarcastic? Your liberty with the > translation of the word dicitur, you try to pass it with > authority(!) as nominative and tending to exclusive...hmmm.... > perhaps is just means "say", as in this land for which we say dirt? > I don't see it very important either way as there is no need to be > dweebish (the word you were looking for) by taking quotes out of > context of a near dead though beautiful language since OE and > Webster's dictionaries have all we need in boldface. > > In German, Terran might be the right word - no problem! As for the > comments about the "poetic negative" for tellurian, you totally lost > me there and let me add gender as a factor, is Terran more > macho and Tellurian more effeminate and is that you basis - well, > earth out to be effeminate as it is named after a woman...like > Venus. Mars is masculine sure... I already gave you the support of > the periodic chart of the elements tellurium ("from the earth"), > which should be enough to earn a place. It may be that some Germans > think the entire English Language sounds poetic compared to theirs! > When you discuss by some weird logic I don't follow that this poetic > stuff extends to it being the goddess as opposed to the planet, I > only wish Mr. Peabody were here to send you to have a face to face > with the Legions in the WayBack Machine, the you could see that the > planets got their names from Gods that represented them, like > Jupiter, Mars, Mercury and Venus. Do we call something Jupiteran or > Jupiterian? No we call it Jovian. Why? Because it is the word in the > dictionary, from Jove, btw, the "poetic" form of Jupiter. That's how > adjectives can be ... For parallel logic, you can't help but trip > over "Tellurian". > > I think you would find that the ancients had no reasonable > vocabulary to describe adjectives for the Earth as a planet because > regardless of what shape they thought it had, it was still the the > point of reference for the Universe, and was a different animal from > the planets they named. That is why terra means dirt in Italian and > Portuguese today. > > At best it would probably have more to > do with the concept of "the world" Mundus or whatever the Latin folk > have. The English word for that which has as one definition meaning > terrestrial is mundane. So if you want to add "MUNDANE" to the pot , > be my guest. And Earth Meteorites seems fine too :) > > You might take a look at this which I just found, and I was happy to > see the sci-fi comment by whoever wrote the current version: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexicography_of_Earth > > Best wishes, > Doug > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Altmann > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 9:12 am > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > > > Hiho Doug, > >> the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of >> some >> authors these days rather. > > Cicero: "ille globus quae terra dicitur.." > That ball, we call Earth. > > In principle "tellus" and "terra" are synonyms, > but "tellus" is more poetic, means more the goddess, the Earth as > center of > the world, in opposite to a celestial body; > > while "terra" means more the physical matter, the Earth as whole > physical > entity (in fact as planet, as celestial body, if they wouldn't have > had a > geocentric system)and also as one of the elements (water, fire..). > > Although for the elements only, there for was also "solum", means also > earth, used, > especially in opposite to the element water - see also today "solid". > =0 > AAnd additionally in the meaning of "land" "ground", "bottom". > > Finally there is still "humus" for earth. > That means earth in the sense of the hierarchic system of the spheres, > where the sphere of the element earth was in the center of the > universe, > (below the sphere of water, below the sphere of air...). > So it means the lowest, the inmost. (humble, humiliate ect.). > > "Tellurem pro terra posuit, quum tellurem deam dicamus, terram > elementum." > Maurus Servius Honoratus (a grammarian around AD 420) > > > Uh my Latin... well he says, fort he goddess "tellus", fort he element > "terra". > > Hmmm I would say, from the Roman ancient world until the modern times, > "terra" was more in use to denominate Earth as planet. (Also because > of the > Christian tradition, as "terra" is used in the Latin bible. See also > Augustinus). > > So perhaps we should stay with Terra? > > The adjective to Terra in Latin would be "terrenus". > So probably "Terran meteorite" would be correct. > > Exist also Latin "terrestris", but that means rather "located on > Earth, part > of the Earth", > so we could leave "terrestrial" for pseudo-meteorites. > > (btw. Mars, Martis --> Martian. (Martinus, says Martin, the Martian). > Mercur, Mercuris ---> Mercurian. Venus, Veneris ---> Venerian. > (cause I > read somewhere Venusian) Hmm the Doug "Dawn"-space probe is on the > way to > Vesta. Vestalian meteorites sounds a little bit....) > > > Uuuuuuh, a posting like from one of those class mates from th > e 1st row, > you never wanted to be friend with...(Don't know the right > expression. Geek? > Swot?..) > > Have a nice weekend! > Martin > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Mexicodoug > Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Juni 2009 09:34 > An: jgrossman at usgs.gov; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > Dr. Grossman wrote: > > "I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or > perhaps a terran meteorite." > > Hi Jeff, > > Definitely those are viable options, though I think this subject would > spark more debate than Pluto, Plutonian and Plutonic in these extended > circles if it ever had a type specimen. > > I think the name "TELLURIAN", the adjective (From TELLUS[Earth]) might > be another option, and perhaps more harmonic. > > Given the confusion and stigma with "terrestrial" in meteoritics > frequently being used to describe meteorwrongs, I think this third > choice could be considered on equal footing without having the > baggage. > Do I recall many scientists objecting for example to the useage of > "plutonic" as an adjective for Plutoness? > > Utilizing Mars as an example and considering the name of the planet > "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some authors these days > rather than "Terra Mater", the Roman goddess. As for Terran, it sounds > a bit far fetched to me, but hey... > For meteorite collectors who will no do > ubt be the first to collect > these so far legendary things, it seems our examples: > > martian meteorite (martian for short) > lunar meteorite (lunar for short, ocassionally the throat-twisting > lunaite) > ...why not: > tellurian meteorite (tellurian for short) > > Tellus, the equivalent Roman Earth goddess as Terra Mater, which > further rounds out the Earth-panteon of Roman possibilities, seems > almost a natural option > and probably just slipped your list. > > I didn't mention tellurite since there is already a mineral named this > with a cool blue subadamantine sheen...chemists (who as we know > generally don't get no respect from geologists) that discovered the > metallic element opted for Tellurium to name it after Earth, of > course, > for similar considerations we have now, and probably too avoid > confusion with terrariums, those fish tanks filled with dirt. > Ironically, Earth's crust is astonishingly poor in this element, vs. > meteorites and the cosmos in general. Well, they were chemists after > all. So "Terran meteorite" might have an edge here is you like to say > Terraite three times fast. (If someone likes tongue-twisters, how > about, five times fast, "Terr's Tertiary temper terrified Terry the > teary Terran from Tetroe." got to roll the rr's ad pronounce it > Tee-troe. > > Anway, tellurian and terran sounds like great candidates to me. > Considering the hard sound of Terran, which sounds a lot like "dirt" > (real dumb joke alert) and might give us customs problems when we get > our space faring > passports or ship meteorites around the Solar system, > not to mention hurt meteorite dealers' sales... > > In any case, I'll wait for the first guy who breaks the myth and > recovers material for science to Tellus what to call it. (oops, never > hear the end of that one) > > Hoping to escape this heat and join the Telluridian Festivarians for > the Solstice, > Doug > (chemist) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Grossman > Sent: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:12 am > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > > I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or > perhaps a terran meteorite. > > jeff > > Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote: >> We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the >> Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. >> These we know where they come from. >> >> Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite >> hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon >> or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, >> or maybe Earthite? >> Just contemplating my navel here. >> Pete >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 > US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383 > > 954 National Center > Reston, VA 20192, USA > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 6 19:16:08 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:16:08 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop><4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov><8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com><009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1F55EE12433F4C039B35A72B265B8EAA@ATARIENGINE2> Let me get this straight. We have (in no particular order of favoritism): Terrestrial meteorite, Tellurite, Terrenite, Terranite, Earthite, and possibly Gaiaite or Geoite. So, when a "meteor" of Earth origin is travelling toward becoming a "meteorite" of whatever designation, is it referred to as: a Terrestroid? an Earthoid? A Telluroid? A Terranoid? Or possibly a Gaiaoid or Geooid? All these Earthican languages, and this is the best we can do? Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" To: Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? > Hiho Mr. Martindale, (Isn't Miss Martindale a Tellurian? UK humor) > > The adjective already in the language defined in the more limited > manner we want is TERRENE. So throw out TERRAN and use TERRENE and I'm > fine, are you? > > --------------------------------- > > I didn't think so... all right...mmmm, I'll plug and grind away at > some of your reply which seemed to unnecessarily and possibly > incorrectly to look to Latin to make up words and take the ancients > out of context ... > > Back to reality, and plain English. (The Italians can debate whether > Terran works for them, but that seems like a silly argument for > English. "Terran" is not a generally accepted English word that evokes > sci-fi to meant it was not my intent to make up new words when > sufficient words already exist in plain English - that was the real > reason I called it a "sci-fi" word. I do not feel it is in a mere > mortal's place to modify the dictionary any more than a fire hydrant. > > TERRESTRIAL is the word, if we didn't happen to live here and already > have plenty of uses for it w/r to meteorites and geology IMO - it > seems you are sympathetic to the idea that "terrestrial" has > meteorwrong, pseudometeorite, etc. as unwanted confusion and baggage. > Besides since all the Inner planets are terrestrial, they are > terrestrial meteorites if you want to get picky, vs. cometary, etc. > Then weathering, terrestrialization ... Just way too much confusion. > > So I > think TERRENE and TELLURIAN (consistently defined as from earth > without inventing a new word) are both fine and not exclusive (of > course not, they are words common man has every right to use) any more > than calling something a Martian meteorite or a Mars meteorite - where > both descriptors are OK. If you want to look for obscure or invented > words, TERRAN is great, too, I suppose, as long as you find one first > and publish the precedent. Else, I don't agree. > > Quoting Cicero (unless you mean the guy from Sky & Tel), won't get you > any points unless you do a dissertation on what was going on in > people's minds back then! Earth was an element, comparable to air and > water, not a planet in a modern sense. > > How do I know Cicero wasn't being sarcastic? Your liberty with the > translation of the word dicitur, you try to pass it with authority(!) > as nominative and tending to exclusive...hmmm.... perhaps is just > means "say", as in this land for which we say dirt? I don't see it > very important either way as there is no need to be dweebish (the word > you were looking for) by taking quotes out of context of a near dead > though beautiful language since OE and Webster's dictionaries have all > we need in boldface. > > In German, Terran might be the right word - no problem! As for the > comments about the "poetic negative" for tellurian, you totally lost > me there and let me add gender as a factor, is Terran more > macho and Tellurian more effeminate and is that you basis - well, > earth out to be effeminate as it is named after a woman...like Venus. > Mars is masculine sure... I already gave you the support of the > periodic chart of the elements tellurium ("from the earth"), which > should be enough to earn a place. It may be that some Germans think > the entire English Language sounds poetic compared to theirs! When you > discuss by some weird logic I don't follow that this poetic stuff > extends to it being the goddess as opposed to the planet, I only wish > Mr. Peabody were here to send you to have a face to face with the > Legions in the WayBack Machine, the you could see that the planets got > their names from Gods that represented them, like Jupiter, Mars, > Mercury and Venus. Do we call something Jupiteran or Jupiterian? No we > call it Jovian. Why? Because it is the word in the dictionary, from > Jove, btw, the "poetic" form of Jupiter. That's how adjectives can be > ... For parallel logic, you can't help but trip over "Tellurian". > > I think you would find that the ancients had no reasonable vocabulary > to describe adjectives for the Earth as a planet because regardless of > what shape they thought it had, it was still the the point of > reference for the Universe, and was a different animal from the > planets they named. That is why terra means dirt in Italian and > Portuguese today. > > At best it would probably have more to > do with the concept of "the world" Mundus or whatever the Latin folk > have. The English word for that which has as one definition meaning > terrestrial is mundane. So if you want to add "MUNDANE" to the pot , > be my guest. And Earth Meteorites seems fine too :) > > You might take a look at this which I just found, and I was happy to > see the sci-fi comment by whoever wrote the current version: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexicography_of_Earth > > Best wishes, > Doug > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Altmann > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 9:12 am > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > > > Hiho Doug, > >>the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of >>some >>authors these days rather. > > Cicero: "ille globus quae terra dicitur.." > That ball, we call Earth. > > In principle "tellus" and "terra" are synonyms, > but "tellus" is more poetic, means more the goddess, the Earth as > center of > the world, in opposite to a celestial body; > > while "terra" means more the physical matter, the Earth as whole > physical > entity (in fact as planet, as celestial body, if they wouldn't have > had a > geocentric system)and also as one of the elements (water, fire..). > > Although for the elements only, there for was also "solum", means also > earth, used, > especially in opposite to the element water - see also today "solid". > =0 > AAnd additionally in the meaning of "land" "ground", "bottom". > > Finally there is still "humus" for earth. > That means earth in the sense of the hierarchic system of the spheres, > where the sphere of the element earth was in the center of the > universe, > (below the sphere of water, below the sphere of air...). > So it means the lowest, the inmost. (humble, humiliate ect.). > > "Tellurem pro terra posuit, quum tellurem deam dicamus, terram > elementum." > Maurus Servius Honoratus (a grammarian around AD 420) > > > Uh my Latin... well he says, fort he goddess "tellus", fort he element > "terra". > > Hmmm I would say, from the Roman ancient world until the modern times, > "terra" was more in use to denominate Earth as planet. (Also because > of the > Christian tradition, as "terra" is used in the Latin bible. See also > Augustinus). > > So perhaps we should stay with Terra? > > The adjective to Terra in Latin would be "terrenus". > So probably "Terran meteorite" would be correct. > > Exist also Latin "terrestris", but that means rather "located on > Earth, part > of the Earth", > so we could leave "terrestrial" for pseudo-meteorites. > > (btw. Mars, Martis --> Martian. (Martinus, says Martin, the Martian). > Mercur, Mercuris ---> Mercurian. Venus, Veneris ---> Venerian. (cause > I > read somewhere Venusian) Hmm the Doug "Dawn"-space probe is on the way > to > Vesta. Vestalian meteorites sounds a little bit....) > > > Uuuuuuh, a posting like from one of those class mates from th > e 1st row, > you never wanted to be friend with...(Don't know the right expression. > Geek? > Swot?..) > > Have a nice weekend! > Martin > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Mexicodoug > Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Juni 2009 09:34 > An: jgrossman at usgs.gov; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > Dr. Grossman wrote: > > "I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or > perhaps a terran meteorite." > > Hi Jeff, > > Definitely those are viable options, though I think this subject would > spark more debate than Pluto, Plutonian and Plutonic in these extended > circles if it ever had a type specimen. > > I think the name "TELLURIAN", the adjective (From TELLUS[Earth]) might > be another option, and perhaps more harmonic. > > Given the confusion and stigma with "terrestrial" in meteoritics > frequently being used to describe meteorwrongs, I think this third > choice could be considered on equal footing without having the > baggage. > Do I recall many scientists objecting for example to the useage of > "plutonic" as an adjective for Plutoness? > > Utilizing Mars as an example and considering the name of the planet > "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some authors these days > rather than "Terra Mater", the Roman goddess. As for Terran, it sounds > a bit far fetched to me, but hey... > For meteorite collectors who will no do > ubt be the first to collect > these so far legendary things, it seems our examples: > > martian meteorite (martian for short) > lunar meteorite (lunar for short, ocassionally the throat-twisting > lunaite) > ...why not: > tellurian meteorite (tellurian for short) > > Tellus, the equivalent Roman Earth goddess as Terra Mater, which > further rounds out the Earth-panteon of Roman possibilities, seems > almost a natural option > and probably just slipped your list. > > I didn't mention tellurite since there is already a mineral named this > with a cool blue subadamantine sheen...chemists (who as we know > generally don't get no respect from geologists) that discovered the > metallic element opted for Tellurium to name it after Earth, of > course, > for similar considerations we have now, and probably too avoid > confusion with terrariums, those fish tanks filled with dirt. > Ironically, Earth's crust is astonishingly poor in this element, vs. > meteorites and the cosmos in general. Well, they were chemists after > all. So "Terran meteorite" might have an edge here is you like to say > Terraite three times fast. (If someone likes tongue-twisters, how > about, five times fast, "Terr's Tertiary temper terrified Terry the > teary Terran from Tetroe." got to roll the rr's ad pronounce it > Tee-troe. > > Anway, tellurian and terran sounds like great candidates to me. > Considering the hard sound of Terran, which sounds a lot like "dirt" > (real dumb joke alert) and might give us customs problems when we get > our space faring > passports or ship meteorites around the Solar system, > not to mention hurt meteorite dealers' sales... > > In any case, I'll wait for the first guy who breaks the myth and > recovers material for science to Tellus what to call it. (oops, never > hear the end of that one) > > Hoping to escape this heat and join the Telluridian Festivarians for > the Solstice, > Doug > (chemist) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Grossman > Sent: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:12 am > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? > > > I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or > perhaps a terran meteorite. > jeff > Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote: >> We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the Lunar meteorite >> and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. These we know where they >> come from. Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite >> hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon or Mars? >> What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, or maybe Earthite? >> Just contemplating my navel here. Pete >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey > fax: (703) 648-6383 > 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jun 6 20:24:56 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:24:56 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <1F55EE12433F4C039B35A72B265B8EAA@ATARIENGINE2> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop><4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov><8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com><009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> <1F55EE12433F4C039B35A72B265B8EAA@ATARIENGINE2> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:16:08 -0500, you wrote: >We have (in no particular order of >favoritism): Terrestrial meteorite, >Tellurite, Terrenite, Terranite, Earthite, >and possibly Gaiaite or Geoite. > FlyingSpaghettiMonster help us if the first confirmed Earth-originating meteorite lands in Colorado. The Telluride Tellurite? From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jun 6 20:28:29 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 19:28:29 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <1F55EE12433F4C039B35A72B265B8EAA@ATARIENGINE2> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop><4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov><8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com><009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> <1F55EE12433F4C039B35A72B265B8EAA@ATARIENGINE2> Message-ID: Besides, everybody knows that they should be called "icaruites". From pshugar at clearwire.net Sat Jun 6 19:49:43 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar@clearwire.net) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:49:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Comment re A Question Message-ID: <3D0CAD29C37A4AC993D253CDEC1ADE01@laptop> I am so sorry that I ever asked my question. I am still learning about these meteorites and all the terminology that goes with the subject. I shall crawl back into my little hole and never again even peek at the list again. The other question re the survivability of an earth "bug" in a Mars environment was just ignored.. Go figure All I wanted to do was learn something. Next there will be a war abrewing over this inane thread. Pete From gmhupe at htn.net Sat Jun 6 21:27:12 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:27:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Martian, NWA 5789 Auctions Ending Sunday - AD Message-ID: <8C796DE0369B494EA5BA539B04DEED7A@Gregor> Dear List Members, The newest Martian meteorite, NWA 5789, an Anomalous (Provisional, with further studies under way), has been announced and confirmed by acquiring parties who were very fortunate to be a part of this amazing Martian meteorite discovery. I first announced this different planetary meteorite last week, with confirmation from the majority mass holders, Martian Altman (and Stefan Ralew) (congratulations, guys!!). As Martin pointed out, very little material is available from the limited Total Known Weight of just 49 grams. From the samples I provided to two different institutions for the first confirmations of this new find, and then the further completing type sample provided by Stefan and Martin, there is almost nothing available to collectors. I have just seven specimens on eBay that will end tomorrow (Sunday, June 7th at about 2:00 PM Florida time!). All of these were started at just 99 cents each, have bids and have many eBay, "Watchers", per auction. Those who are most interested are watching and will be bidding up to the end of these auctions! This may be your only chance to acquire a sample of this newest of Martian meteorites, paired to nothing before!! Click here to see all (perhaps the 'only' available) seven NWA 5789 auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault "Thank You" for bidding and, Good Luck! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat Jun 6 22:40:24 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 22:40:24 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] SALE : Meteorites, Impactites, Books, and UNWA. Message-ID: Hi Listees! I have added three new collectible books to my online store today - including two UK meteorite books (first UK editions), and a fascinating book by Lincoln Lapaz (founder of the Univ. of New Mexico's Institute of Meteoritics) "Space Nomads". Several impactites available that are not listed on my website yet. These come from my personal collection. I have decided to downsize my impactites and focus on meteorites - so I am liquidating these specimens to rash some cash for more meteorites. Here is a list of what's available : Decaturville Impact Structure (Missouri) - 136gr endcut of monomict impact breccia Ries Crater (Germany) - 62gr "flaedle" impact glass bomb Rochechouart Crater (France) - 108gr slice of pseudotachylite Steinheim Crater (Germany) - small shattercone Sudbury Impact Basin (Canada) - 60gr highly-polished slice of Wells Creek Crater (Tennessee) - 194gr dolomitic shatter cone sample Black Onaping suevite (ON HOLD) Wanapitei Lake (Sudbury) - 110gr endcut of suevite fallback breccia (ON HOLD) Sudbury Impact Basin (Canada) - big 682 grams shatter cone. (ON HOLD) For photos and prices, contact me offlist at mike at galactic-stone.com Lastly, I have slashed prices on some items in my store - including UNWA bulk lots, single UNWA display specimens, calcite spheres and other items. The sale prices on these items are noted in the listings - www.galactic-stone.com Don't forget - all list members get a 20% discount on everything in my store, including sale items! Use coupon code "metlist" at checkout to get the discount - type the coupon code exactly as spelled here - it is case sensitive. Thanks for looking and clear skies! MikeG www.galactic-stone.com ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sat Jun 6 23:38:37 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 05:38:37 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? In-Reply-To: <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> References: <5A52B1F818C94F20B40D778EB9D8DF7B@laptop><4A28EF9E.4040803@usgs.gov><8CBB49049227328-1054-2216@webmail-dg03.sysops.aol.com><009f01c9e6b0$e3358d60$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <8CBB50EE6EADDD4-16B8-3303@MBLK-M19.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000b01c9e721$71afe660$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hiho, >How do I know Cicero wasn't being sarcastic? Cause it's from his "Somnium Scipionis", one of the most prevalent cosmologic writings. There he describes the Earth as a globe, with poles, climes, antipodes on the opposed hemispheres...similar as we do it today, hence the same concept, what we have today of planet Earth (with the difference, that our Earth isn't in the middle of the universe) - and that globe he calls "terra" The other quote of Severius was from his commentary to Virgil's Aeneid. (which has here and there some relations to Scipio's Dream). Well, let's look simply in the most popular astronomy book of the 13th - 16th century. The Carl Sagan of these times was John of Hollywood, (Sacrobosco, ca. 1195 - 1256 AD). He wrote a meagre and short excerpt from Ptolemaeus' Megale Syntaxis, called "Tractatus de Sphaera". That was one of the most copied books of all of the Middle Ages, each student, passing the second course of studies, had to learn it by rote. Hence was the standard schoolbook for astronomy for several centuries. There he explains the Earth as globe (like on your desk), a ball with its poles, equator, tropics, arctic circles ect. gives diameter and circumference.. And that physical object, that ball, the Earth is called continuously throughout that booklet "terra". So without needing any semantics or philosophy... ...one could come to an opinion... ...that simply because all called that ball they were sitting on "terra", that this would be a good name for planet Earth. (I'm sure you'll find the complete text of the Sphaera several times on internet). >to describe adjectives for the Earth as a planet because regardless of >what shape they thought it had, it was still the the point of reference Funny enough, you'll find in Sacrobosco's sphere, that the size of the Earth compared to heaven's is a point... Even more funny, if the Earth was unlike the planets, and the ultimate ground, source ect. how easily the emperors from the 8th. century on could juggle with that Earth-ball in their hands on the pictures.. (and it's the Earth, as seen by the division by the bands around into 3 parts - the Roman emperors had still a naked ball, the sphere of the heavens, the universe in their hands). > I think you would find that the ancients had no reasonable vocabulary.. > ...At best it would probably have more to do with the concept of "the > world" Mundus Don't think so, we don't have to make the Ancients more stupid as they never were... Take the stereographic projection. You can't project the circles in the sky on a lump of dirt, a point, or a philosophic-theological doghouse. You need a geometrical concept of your world, earth, planet call it like you want, of a ball. A hand-tight problem, they solved. Without disturbing goddesses and stuff. >of your reply which seemed to unnecessarily ..which was indicated by my last remark in the mail btw. That one is most probably too. Well for some is interesting to know, where their stones stem from, and for others, where their words stem from, for others, where the ideas and concepts stem from, ...and for most nothing of that matters... And personally, I guess, for me an Earth meteorite wouldn't be that fascinating. A stone hurled in space, flying around a few millions of years... ...for me my meteorites shall stem from there, where I never will be able to access - from other celestial bodies! ..sicut in cealo, et in terra.... Amen Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Mexicodoug Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Juni 2009 00:40 An: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? Hiho Mr. Martindale, (Isn't Miss Martindale a Tellurian? UK humor) The adjective already in the language defined in the more limited manner we want is TERRENE. So throw out TERRAN and use TERRENE and I'm fine, are you? --------------------------------- I didn't think so... all right...mmmm, I'll plug and grind away at some of your reply which seemed to unnecessarily and possibly incorrectly to look to Latin to make up words and take the ancients out of context ... Back to reality, and plain English. (The Italians can debate whether Terran works for them, but that seems like a silly argument for English. "Terran" is not a generally accepted English word that evokes sci-fi to meant it was not my intent to make up new words when sufficient words already exist in plain English - that was the real reason I called it a "sci-fi" word. I do not feel it is in a mere mortal's place to modify the dictionary any more than a fire hydrant. TERRESTRIAL is the word, if we didn't happen to live here and already have plenty of uses for it w/r to meteorites and geology IMO - it seems you are sympathetic to the idea that "terrestrial" has meteorwrong, pseudometeorite, etc. as unwanted confusion and baggage. Besides since all the Inner planets are terrestrial, they are terrestrial meteorites if you want to get picky, vs. cometary, etc. Then weathering, terrestrialization ... Just way too much confusion. So I think TERRENE and TELLURIAN (consistently defined as from earth without inventing a new word) are both fine and not exclusive (of course not, they are words common man has every right to use) any more than calling something a Martian meteorite or a Mars meteorite - where both descriptors are OK. If you want to look for obscure or invented words, TERRAN is great, too, I suppose, as long as you find one first and publish the precedent. Else, I don't agree. Quoting Cicero (unless you mean the guy from Sky & Tel), won't get you any points unless you do a dissertation on what was going on in people's minds back then! Earth was an element, comparable to air and water, not a planet in a modern sense. How do I know Cicero wasn't being sarcastic? Your liberty with the translation of the word dicitur, you try to pass it with authority(!) as nominative and tending to exclusive...hmmm.... perhaps is just means "say", as in this land for which we say dirt? I don't see it very important either way as there is no need to be dweebish (the word you were looking for) by taking quotes out of context of a near dead though beautiful language since OE and Webster's dictionaries have all we need in boldface. In German, Terran might be the right word - no problem! As for the comments about the "poetic negative" for tellurian, you totally lost me there and let me add gender as a factor, is Terran more macho and Tellurian more effeminate and is that you basis - well, earth out to be effeminate as it is named after a woman...like Venus. Mars is masculine sure... I already gave you the support of the periodic chart of the elements tellurium ("from the earth"), which should be enough to earn a place. It may be that some Germans think the entire English Language sounds poetic compared to theirs! When you discuss by some weird logic I don't follow that this poetic stuff extends to it being the goddess as opposed to the planet, I only wish Mr. Peabody were here to send you to have a face to face with the Legions in the WayBack Machine, the you could see that the planets got their names from Gods that represented them, like Jupiter, Mars, Mercury and Venus. Do we call something Jupiteran or Jupiterian? No we call it Jovian. Why? Because it is the word in the dictionary, from Jove, btw, the "poetic" form of Jupiter. That's how adjectives can be ... For parallel logic, you can't help but trip over "Tellurian". I think you would find that the ancients had no reasonable vocabulary to describe adjectives for the Earth as a planet because regardless of what shape they thought it had, it was still the the point of reference for the Universe, and was a different animal from the planets they named. That is why terra means dirt in Italian and Portuguese today. At best it would probably have more to do with the concept of "the world" Mundus or whatever the Latin folk have. The English word for that which has as one definition meaning terrestrial is mundane. So if you want to add "MUNDANE" to the pot , be my guest. And Earth Meteorites seems fine too :) You might take a look at this which I just found, and I was happy to see the sci-fi comment by whoever wrote the current version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexicography_of_Earth Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Martin Altmann To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 9:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? Hiho Doug, >the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some >authors these days rather. Cicero: "ille globus quae terra dicitur.." That ball, we call Earth. In principle "tellus" and "terra" are synonyms, but "tellus" is more poetic, means more the goddess, the Earth as center of the world, in opposite to a celestial body; while "terra" means more the physical matter, the Earth as whole physical entity (in fact as planet, as celestial body, if they wouldn't have had a geocentric system)and also as one of the elements (water, fire..). Although for the elements only, there for was also "solum", means also earth, used, especially in opposite to the element water - see also today "solid". =0 AAnd additionally in the meaning of "land" "ground", "bottom". Finally there is still "humus" for earth. That means earth in the sense of the hierarchic system of the spheres, where the sphere of the element earth was in the center of the universe, (below the sphere of water, below the sphere of air...). So it means the lowest, the inmost. (humble, humiliate ect.). "Tellurem pro terra posuit, quum tellurem deam dicamus, terram elementum." Maurus Servius Honoratus (a grammarian around AD 420) Uh my Latin... well he says, fort he goddess "tellus", fort he element "terra". Hmmm I would say, from the Roman ancient world until the modern times, "terra" was more in use to denominate Earth as planet. (Also because of the Christian tradition, as "terra" is used in the Latin bible. See also Augustinus). So perhaps we should stay with Terra? The adjective to Terra in Latin would be "terrenus". So probably "Terran meteorite" would be correct. Exist also Latin "terrestris", but that means rather "located on Earth, part of the Earth", so we could leave "terrestrial" for pseudo-meteorites. (btw. Mars, Martis --> Martian. (Martinus, says Martin, the Martian). Mercur, Mercuris ---> Mercurian. Venus, Veneris ---> Venerian. (cause I read somewhere Venusian) Hmm the Doug "Dawn"-space probe is on the way to Vesta. Vestalian meteorites sounds a little bit....) Uuuuuuh, a posting like from one of those class mates from th e 1st row, you never wanted to be friend with...(Don't know the right expression. Geek? Swot?..) Have a nice weekend! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Mexicodoug Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Juni 2009 09:34 An: jgrossman at usgs.gov; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? Dr. Grossman wrote: "I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite." Hi Jeff, Definitely those are viable options, though I think this subject would spark more debate than Pluto, Plutonian and Plutonic in these extended circles if it ever had a type specimen. I think the name "TELLURIAN", the adjective (From TELLUS[Earth]) might be another option, and perhaps more harmonic. Given the confusion and stigma with "terrestrial" in meteoritics frequently being used to describe meteorwrongs, I think this third choice could be considered on equal footing without having the baggage. Do I recall many scientists objecting for example to the useage of "plutonic" as an adjective for Plutoness? Utilizing Mars as an example and considering the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some authors these days rather than "Terra Mater", the Roman goddess. As for Terran, it sounds a bit far fetched to me, but hey... For meteorite collectors who will no do ubt be the first to collect these so far legendary things, it seems our examples: martian meteorite (martian for short) lunar meteorite (lunar for short, ocassionally the throat-twisting lunaite) ...why not: tellurian meteorite (tellurian for short) Tellus, the equivalent Roman Earth goddess as Terra Mater, which further rounds out the Earth-panteon of Roman possibilities, seems almost a natural option and probably just slipped your list. I didn't mention tellurite since there is already a mineral named this with a cool blue subadamantine sheen...chemists (who as we know generally don't get no respect from geologists) that discovered the metallic element opted for Tellurium to name it after Earth, of course, for similar considerations we have now, and probably too avoid confusion with terrariums, those fish tanks filled with dirt. Ironically, Earth's crust is astonishingly poor in this element, vs. meteorites and the cosmos in general. Well, they were chemists after all. So "Terran meteorite" might have an edge here is you like to say Terraite three times fast. (If someone likes tongue-twisters, how about, five times fast, "Terr's Tertiary temper terrified Terry the teary Terran from Tetroe." got to roll the rr's ad pronounce it Tee-troe. Anway, tellurian and terran sounds like great candidates to me. Considering the hard sound of Terran, which sounds a lot like "dirt" (real dumb joke alert) and might give us customs problems when we get our space faring passports or ship meteorites around the Solar system, not to mention hurt meteorite dealers' sales... In any case, I'll wait for the first guy who breaks the myth and recovers material for science to Tellus what to call it. (oops, never hear the end of that one) Hoping to escape this heat and join the Telluridian Festivarians for the Solstice, Doug (chemist) -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Grossman Sent: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:12 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or perhaps a terran meteorite.? ? jeff? ? Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote:? > We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the? > Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite.? > These we know where they come from.? >? > Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite? > hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon? > or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid,? > or maybe Earthite?? > Just contemplating my navel here.? > Pete? >? > ______________________________________________? > http://www.meteoritecentral.com? > Meteorite-list mailing list? > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? >? ? -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184? US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383? 954 National Center? Reston, VA 20192, USA? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rhartman04 at earthlink.net Sun Jun 7 03:00:45 2009 From: rhartman04 at earthlink.net (R N Hartman) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 00:00:45 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer References: <294076.74712.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001d01c9e73d$ae8e9150$6401a8c0@DBZC5NB1> My notes from Dr. Frederick D. Leonard's Meteoritics 118 class which I took at UCLA (I believe in1962) say: A meteorite is any object of sub-planetary mass which has landed on Earth, or some other astronomical body, and still retains its original cosmic characteristics. (Little did he know that someday we would photograph meteorites residing on the surface of Mars!) Ron Hartman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: "Pete Shugar at clearwire.net" ; "metlist" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question????? another answer > > Pete sometime let me tell you about the First Church of the Navelites.. > but to your question > > They would be called meteorites until identified as originating from the > Earth--then the debate is opened up again. > > Recently someone at NASA or in the IAU stated the new definition of > meteorite includes any rocky object falling onto the surface of any planet > should be regarded as a meteorite (my translation) > > I recently read a calculation of the number of Earth originating rocks > gone to meteorites on the moon and on Mars and it was a fairly high number > within the realistic realm of being identified as such. > > A further subset of missing nomenclature is what to call returning non > tektite ejecta that may have orbited a while and get returned much later. > The Reis impactor is a candidate for having been able to eject rocks into > orbit. As I've mentioned it before, it hurled some multi-ton limestone > boulders over 60 miles up a mountain side in Austria. > > A meteorite could not eject material into space from earth but an asteroid > sized impactor most certainly has in the past. That is the physics don't > prohibit it. > > Elton > --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Pete Shugar at clearwire.net > wrote: > >> From: Pete Shugar at clearwire.net >> Subject: [meteorite-list] A question????? >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 12:02 AM >> We have the Martian type meteorite, >> and we have the >> Lunar meteorite and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. >> These we know where they come from. >> >> Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite >> hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon >> or Mars? What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, >> or maybe Earthite? >> Just contemplating my navel here. >> Pete >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at meteoritenhaus.de Sun Jun 7 08:17:42 2009 From: info at meteoritenhaus.de (Andreas Gren) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 14:17:42 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD 12kg NWA Chondrite Message-ID: Hello List, I would like to offer a real huge NWA Chondrite, the Meteorite is unclassified. The weight is 12.1 kg and the dimensions are 20 x 20 x 17 cm. One corner is showing a 12mm radial pyroxene Chondrule, please see last picture. Price is 2100$ Shipping is:? USA 80$ ;?? ?Europe 40$? ; ?Germany 0$; Thanks for looking Best Greetings Andi www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_2.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_3.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_4.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_5.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_6.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_7.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_8.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_9.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/NWA12kg_10.jpg www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/Chondrule1.jpg ------------------------------------------------- Meteoritenhaus info at meteoritenhaus.de Inhaber Andreas Gren Stapelfelder Str. 58 22143 Hamburg Germany phone 0049(0)40-67593737 Umsatzsteuer-Identifikations-Nummer: folgt Steuernummer:08/453/07598 ------------------------------------------------- From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sun Jun 7 09:24:58 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 15:24:58 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Martian, NWA 5789 Auctions Ending Sunday - AD In-Reply-To: <8C796DE0369B494EA5BA539B04DEED7A@Gregor> References: <8C796DE0369B494EA5BA539B04DEED7A@Gregor> Message-ID: <001001c9e773$5baa9110$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hi Greg, may we add for the list members some more information. Dirk Hohmann (thank you) brought just this fine and easy to read article by Jeffrey Taylor to our attention, which describes the properties, formation and importance of the Yamato 980459 very well. http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Dec06/Y-980459.html That could be quite illustrative for the collectors and could help to understand, why all are so excited about NWA 5789 and that it isn't just another shergottite. because there are already some indications, that NWA 5789 with its similarities to Yamato 980459 could be even more primitive! Indeed, several institutes showed interest to acquire material, so at present, we can't foresee yet, whether or how much something will be later left, to make it publically available again. Therefore I'd say, for those, who really want to be sure to get a sample of this amazing stuff, it is indicated to take advantage from Greg's offer on ebay. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg Hupe Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Juni 2009 03:27 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] New Martian, NWA 5789 Auctions Ending Sunday - AD Dear List Members, The newest Martian meteorite, NWA 5789, an Anomalous (Provisional, with further studies under way), has been announced and confirmed by acquiring parties who were very fortunate to be a part of this amazing Martian meteorite discovery. I first announced this different planetary meteorite last week, with confirmation from the majority mass holders, Martian Altman (and Stefan Ralew) (congratulations, guys!!). As Martin pointed out, very little material is available from the limited Total Known Weight of just 49 grams. From the samples I provided to two different institutions for the first confirmations of this new find, and then the further completing type sample provided by Stefan and Martin, there is almost nothing available to collectors. I have just seven specimens on eBay that will end tomorrow (Sunday, June 7th at about 2:00 PM Florida time!). All of these were started at just 99 cents each, have bids and have many eBay, "Watchers", per auction. Those who are most interested are watching and will be bidding up to the end of these auctions! This may be your only chance to acquire a sample of this newest of Martian meteorites, paired to nothing before!! Click here to see all (perhaps the 'only' available) seven NWA 5789 auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault "Thank You" for bidding and, Good Luck! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 10:35:06 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:35:06 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Martian, NWA 5789 Auctions Ending Sunday - AD In-Reply-To: <001001c9e773$5baa9110$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <8C796DE0369B494EA5BA539B04DEED7A@Gregor> <001001c9e773$5baa9110$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Hi Folks, Just an observation about the new NWA 5789 - In aesthetic terms, the matrix reminds me of terrestrial olivine bombs thrown out by volcanoes. I wonder if this spectacular meteorite has been through a similar process on Mars? The terrestrial versions are more olivine heavy, but the resemblance is there I think. Best regards, MikeG On 6/7/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > Hi Greg, > > may we add for the list members some more information. > Dirk Hohmann (thank you) brought just this fine and easy to read article by > Jeffrey Taylor to our attention, > which describes the properties, formation and importance of the Yamato > 980459 very well. > > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Dec06/Y-980459.html > > That could be quite illustrative for the collectors and could help to > understand, why all are so excited about NWA 5789 and that it isn't just > another shergottite. > > because there are already some indications, that NWA 5789 with its > similarities to Yamato 980459 could be even more primitive! > > > Indeed, several institutes showed interest to acquire material, > so at present, we can't foresee yet, whether or how much something will be > later left, > to make it publically available again. > > Therefore I'd say, for those, who really want to be sure to get a sample of > this amazing stuff, it is indicated to take advantage from Greg's offer on > ebay. > > Best! > Martin > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Greg > Hupe > Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Juni 2009 03:27 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] New Martian, NWA 5789 Auctions Ending Sunday - AD > > Dear List Members, > > The newest Martian meteorite, NWA 5789, an Anomalous (Provisional, with > further studies under way), has been announced and confirmed by acquiring > parties who were very fortunate to be a part of this amazing Martian > meteorite discovery. I first announced this different planetary meteorite > last week, with confirmation from the majority mass holders, Martian Altman > (and Stefan Ralew) (congratulations, guys!!). > > As Martin pointed out, very little material is available from the limited > Total Known Weight of just 49 grams. From the samples I provided to two > different institutions for the first confirmations of this new find, and > then the further completing type sample provided by Stefan and Martin, there > > is almost nothing available to collectors. > > I have just seven specimens on eBay that will end tomorrow (Sunday, June 7th > > at about 2:00 PM Florida time!). All of these were started at just 99 cents > each, have bids and have many eBay, "Watchers", per auction. Those who are > most interested are watching and will be bidding up to the end of these > auctions! > > This may be your only chance to acquire a sample of this newest of Martian > meteorites, paired to nothing before!! > > Click here to see all (perhaps the 'only' available) seven NWA 5789 > auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > "Thank You" for bidding and, Good Luck! > > Best regards, > Greg > > ==================== > Greg Hupe > The Hupe Collection > NaturesVault (eBay) > gmhupe at htn.net > www.LunarRock.com > IMCA 3163 > ==================== > Click here for my current eBay auctions: > http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From GeoZay at aol.com Sun Jun 7 11:28:24 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 11:28:24 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Sikhote/Campo regmaglypt size differences Message-ID: I was wondering if anyone know why the regmaglypts (thumbprints) for Sikhote-alins seem to be smaller than those found on Campo del Cielos? Perhaps velocity, entry size, atmospheric duration exposure, structure, something else? Any educated guesses? Any non-educated guesses? :O) GeoZay **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377042x1201454362/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From mexicodoug at aim.com Sun Jun 7 11:54:54 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 11:54:54 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sikhote/Campo regmaglypt size differences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBB59F6F59EF7A-10F0-3C0A@WEBMAIL-DF11.sysops.aol.com> Hi Geo, Since regmaglypts are the result of airflow (and only when it travels relatively fast in sufficiently dense atmosphere), I would suggest that their sizes of regmaglypts are both proportional to the size of the piece when it is subject to the turbulence (requires piece to be moving fast) and possibly get smaller for pieces penetrating to the densest low atmosphere (Sikhote) where the turbulence is much greater. So, a smll piece penetrating far down at great speed, like a low altitude airburst coming off a large iron mass, will produce small, exquisite regmaglypts, while a higher bursting, larger pieces will produce larger regmaglpts. That said, don't be too sure that everything on the smaller Campos claimed to be a regmaglypt really is. If the piece is small, it's surface had been subjected to a proportionally greater amount of oxidation not to mention the smaller regs are probably long gone in many cases. Larger Sikhotes have larger regmaglypts if you've seen them... Best wishes Doug -----Original Message----- From: GeoZay at aol.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:28 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Sikhote/Campo regmaglypt size differences I was wondering if anyone know why the regmaglypts (thumbprints) for Sikhote-alins seem to be smaller than those found on Campo del Cielos? Perhaps velocity, entry size, atmospheric duration exposure, structure, something else? Any educated guesses? Any non-educated guesses? :O) GeoZay **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377042x1201454362/aol?redir= http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de Sun Jun 7 12:31:08 2009 From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Meteorite-Recon.com) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 18:31:08 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites in situ Message-ID: <1195869.159541244392268269.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Good evening everybody, Those of you dedicated to the search and recovery of meteorites from hot deserts might be interested in a little feature on some common characteristics of these finds. A number of in situ images are included: Part 1: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_1.htm Part 2: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_2.htm Thanks for your interest. Cheers Svend -- www.meteorite-recon.com From carothersdl at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 12:48:19 2009 From: carothersdl at gmail.com (dave carothers) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 12:48:19 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites in situ References: <1195869.159541244392268269.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Message-ID: Svend, As always, your web site is one of the best for outstanding photos and information relating to meteorites. Thanks for sharing. The pics are awesome. Regards, Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorite-Recon.com" To: Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:31 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites in situ > Good evening everybody, > > Those of you dedicated to the search and recovery of meteorites from hot > deserts might be interested in a little feature on some common > characteristics of these finds. A number of in situ images are included: > > Part 1: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_1.htm > > Part 2: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_2.htm > > Thanks for your interest. > > Cheers > > Svend > > -- > www.meteorite-recon.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sun Jun 7 15:07:46 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2009 12:07:46 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites in situ In-Reply-To: <1195869.159541244392268269.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> References: <1195869.159541244392268269.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Message-ID: <4A2C1002.4070306@meteoritesusa.com> Svend! Now that is cool! Great photos, and even better information. My favorite http://www.meteorite-recon.com/img_inventar/meteorite%20sand%20abrasion.jpg This photo is a great illustration. How many photos of this did you have to take to get that image? ;) AWESOME! Regards, Eric Meteorite-Recon.com wrote: > Good evening everybody, > > Those of you dedicated to the search and recovery of meteorites from hot deserts might be interested in a little feature on some common characteristics of these finds. A number of in situ images are included: > > Part 1: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_1.htm > > Part 2: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_2.htm > > Thanks for your interest. > > Cheers > > Svend > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Sun Jun 7 15:57:31 2009 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 12:57:31 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD- Witness Falls Ending Today Message-ID: <001d01c9e7aa$31998110$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Hello all- Several end today, more witnessed than not: Tatahouine, Kilabo, Sikhote, Saratov, Peekskill, Gao, Oum Dreyga Others with names, not numbers: Chinga, Camel Donga And a few with numbers http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnakhladog Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Sun Jun 7 16:26:01 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 21:26:01 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Find a falling star In-Reply-To: <001d01c9e7aa$31998110$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Message-ID: <20090607212601.T2ZKR.849809.root@web05-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi All, This was broadcast again recently...though those that didn't listen to it last time might like to hear it... I wonder why it was broadcast again? !!!! ;-) http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00l169w/Catch_a_Falling_Star/ Graham Ensor, UK From majbaermann at web.de Sun Jun 7 16:31:16 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:31:16 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites in situ References: <1195869.159541244392268269.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Message-ID: Hi Svend, always good to know someone like you outside in the deserts of our planet, recovering our beloved extraterrestrial monsters before they take a little dive into the Deep Sea of Eternal Sands (not to mention the Gateways of Patience ...). Thanks for sharing your adventures, my best, Matthias B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorite-Recon.com" To: Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 6:31 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites in situ > Good evening everybody, > > Those of you dedicated to the search and recovery of meteorites from hot > deserts might be interested in a little feature on some common > characteristics of these finds. A number of in situ images are included: > > Part 1: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_1.htm > > Part 2: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_2.htm > > Thanks for your interest. > > Cheers > > Svend > > -- > www.meteorite-recon.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Sun Jun 7 17:40:21 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 17:40:21 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Circular polarizers and micrographs Message-ID: Hi List, Many of you are not at all interested in meteorite micrographs but quite a few list members have contacted me over the years about various aspects of meteorite micrographs. Many list members are taking very high quality shots but have not shared them with the list yet. In my Meteorite Micrograph Gallery I primarily use three different microscopes. One of those scopes happened to be set up with a circular polarizer in the analyzer position. This setup worked well with my Nikon auto focus camera but I found I had better results with an older camera on my other scopes. I set out to figure it all out. Many of you are way ahead of me on this one but this could save a lot of trial and error for those who have not given it much thought yet. This is copied from an advertising site for Hoya filters. http://www.thkphoto.com/products/hoya/gf-04.html "Light rays which are reflected by any surface become polarised and polarising filters are used to select which light rays enter your camara lens. PL (Linear Polarising) and PL-CIR (Circular Polarising) filters have the same effect, but it is important that you choose the correct version for your camera. They allow you to remove unwanted reflections from non-metallic surfaces such as water, glass etc. They also enable colors to become more saturated and appear clearer, with better contrast. This effect is often used to increase the contrast and saturation in blue skies and white clouds. HOYA's polarising filters do not affect the overall color balance of a shot." While we are not interested in white fluffy clouds, we are interested in clear sharp focus and linear polarizers detrimentally affect the focus when used with auto focus cameras. They can still work but you might need to take several shots to get one good one. I have found that you can use any polarizer in the first position (based on the light path) but the final filter (called the analyzer) is best if it is a circular polarizer. The auto focus is better and also fast and crisp so your camera doesn't sound like it is sawing logs trying to find focus. I just set up all my scopes with circular polarizers in the analyzer position. This was no easy task as none of the old aus Jena gear had a circular polarizer option (They were made prior to many auto focus cameras). I had to take larger sizes of filters to my rock saw and shape them into the correct size by holding them against the side of the blade and rotating them. If you attempt a change out you will like the results. You will also notice the circular polarizers are directional. That is they only work properly in one direction and not the other. And yes, camera filters are just as good as original equipment polarizers. I have a couple shots I would like to share as an example. They were taken with an auto focus Nikon, through the eyepiece using a circular polaryser analyzer. I will send them full size to any one who is interested. **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml cntnew00000007) From meteoritekid at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 19:28:26 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:28:26 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted - Ash Creek/West Newspaper(s) Message-ID: <93aaac890906071628v2e9485b7r1875114e9dc7d27d@mail.gmail.com> Hello All, Having arrived a little late on the scene, we were too late to purchase the West newspapers that mentioned the fall - does anyone on the list still have any extras they might be willing to sell? Thanks, Jason From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 7 23:58:27 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 22:58:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Sale New Meteorites listed tonight including.... MIGHEI.... and Two ......Murchison..................and some ending within 24 hours Message-ID: <003101c9e7ed$62abc720$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Hello, How are you fellow meteorite collectors tonight? I have a few meteorites ending on ebay in the next 24 hours and I've listed a few new specimens tonight including a buy-it-now 1.418 gram Mighei and 2 Murchison specimens starting at just $1.00. Please have a look at my ebay seller's page. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZsearchingforfunQQhtZ-1 MIGHEI Meteorite Ukraine 1.418g COA IMCA CM2 VERY RARE Very Important Meteorite, Everyone Must have Mighei Item number: 280355684922 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=280355684922 MURCHISON Meteorite Australia .010 g COA IMCA RARE CM2 Item number: 270404738684 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=270404738684 MURCHISON Meteorite Australia .013 g COA IMCA RARE CM2 Item number: 270404742792 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=270404742792 NWA 753 Meteorite Morocco .292 g COA IMCA RARE R3.9 Item number: 280355604633 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=280355604633 NWA 224 Meteorite Morocco 78.0 g COA IMCA H3.7 Item number: 270404827938 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=270404827938 CHINGA Meteorite USSR 119 g COA IMCA Iron Ataxite IVB-U Very Amazing Beautifully Polished Mirror-Like Surface Item number: 270404778560 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=270404778560 LONG ISLAND Meteorite Kansas 66.8 g COA IMCA CRUST L6 Item number: 280353534549 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=280353534549 Gold Basin Meteorite 20.3 gm IMCA L4 Chondrite Arizona Item number: 270401846580 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=270401846580 Gold Basin Meteorite 21.0 gm IMCA L4 Chondrite Arizona Item number: 270401382946 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=270401382946 BALCARCE Meteorite 25.2 gms IMCA H4 RARE Argentina Found June 2, 2000 by Eduardo Jawerbaum of IMCA RARE Item number: 280353189562 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=280353189562 Thanks for looking! I really appreciate it! Brian Cox IMCA # 6387 searchingforfun is my ebay User ID From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Mon Jun 8 00:07:40 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 21:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted - Ash Creek/West Newspaper(s) Message-ID: <528236.81771.qm@web46406.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I would also like to pick up a copy of the paper. If you have an extra, send me an email! Greg --- On Sun, 6/7/09, Jason Utas wrote: > From: Jason Utas > Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted - Ash Creek/West Newspaper(s) > To: "Meteorite-list" > Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 7:28 PM > Hello All, > Having arrived a little late on the scene, we were too late > to > purchase the West newspapers that mentioned the fall - does > anyone on > the list still have any extras they might be willing to > sell? > Thanks, > Jason > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Mon Jun 8 00:19:30 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 21:19:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Achondrites on Ebay ending in less then 24 hours Message-ID: <438043.85556.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Here is my ad for this week... I have many Achondrites for sale on ebay currently at very reasonable prices including Lunar at under $1000 per gram for a fusion crusted slice! Ending in under 24 hours are a few nice Camel Donga individuals, slices and endcuts at about $30 per gram as well as Tatahouine fragments, a real nice slice of NWA 5480 (Olivine Diogenite) and a few NWA meteorites. Ending later this week are a few NWA 4734 Lunar part slices and alot of other really nice meteorite samples! Prices for most material is buy it now with free shipping. If interested in any samples on ebay for better prices, email me and we can work something out for an off ebay sale. Visit here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZstar_wars_coiiectorQQhtZ-1 to see what I have listed currently. I will be listing many more items over the next few days also. Hope everyone has had a good day today! Greg C. From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Mon Jun 8 13:59:11 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 10:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW MARTAIN NAKHLITE FOUND/NWA5790 Message-ID: <282101.6262.qm@web62006.mail.re1.yahoo.com> HI ALL?, and massa alkeir, a new martian has been discovred from the rarest one , it's a 136 gr nakhlite , TWO HAS BEEN DICSOVRED ONLY IN NWA ? nwa817 and nwa998, and this new one is not paired to any of those ,it's anew martian, ??? NWA 5790 New nakhlite NWA 5790. Typical nakhlitic texture. Dominant lo-Ca pyroxene phenocrysts (>55%) 1-2 mm, with thin zoned rim. A few % olivine phenocrysts of about the same size in an abundant mesostasis containing fayalite and Ti-magnetite dendritic crystals, K-spar, Na-rich plagio, Cl-apatite, silica, pyrrhotite and glass.-- classified by doctor albert jambon ,in paris Universit? P et M Curie enjoy photo it's the devinette oF last week , and only norbert classen knew what it was from photo, http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/ thanks aziz the habibiest; ? habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon Jun 8 17:21:54 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:21:54 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Where'd all the fireballs go? Message-ID: <4A2D80F2.9070100@meteoritesusa.com> Hello, Where'd all the pretty fireballs go? Has anyone else noticed how quiet the skies are lately? Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 8 18:34:07 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:34:07 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Where'd all the fireballs go? In-Reply-To: <4A2D80F2.9070100@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A2D80F2.9070100@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:21:54 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, Where'd all the pretty fireballs go? > >Has anyone else noticed how quiet the skies are lately? They are probably reading the thread you started on 5/26 where you asked about why there were so many fireballs lately (and then had the concept of "randomness" clearly explianed by Sterling Webb, which I'll repost here): These are random events. And random may be statistically defined as "one every 2.37 days" (or whatever), but they don't happen on a 2.37-day schedule. The first thing you notice when you plot "random" events is that they seem to "cluster." I say "seem" because humans are very sensitively primed to "see" patterns and potential trends in the events of the world. Frequencies go up; frequencies go down; it's random. That's what random means. Every event is completely unpredictable. Yet, given a large number of events and a long enough period of time, the "completely unpredictable" is "completely predictable," in the miracle of statistical mechanics. Watch a large group of randomly decaying uranium atoms draw a near- perfect mathematical curve of declining activity. The Universe likes to have it both ways. In contrast to what Einstein thought, God does roll the dice but, at the same time, the game is totally rigged. Or is it? The only valid rule about seeing fireballs and meteors is this: they may fall or they may not fall, but if you're not looking, you won't see them. From pshugar at clearwire.net Mon Jun 8 18:12:57 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar@clearwire.net) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:12:57 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Random or maybe ?????? Message-ID: <095DEF3192E740B5B2039BF526F5B481@laptop> Hello, list, What are the chances that two consectitive numbered meteorites will both be from Mars? Even more so, they are different Martian meteorites.... I'm asking about NWA 5789 and NWA 5790. The former is announced by Greg and the later by Aziz. I'm by no means an expert, so I can't tell from the description, if they are related or not. It sure the heck would help if we knew the exact find location of each of these exquisite pieces. Pete IMCA 1733 From epgrondine at yahoo.com Mon Jun 8 18:56:30 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 15:56:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: Is 3He a reliable comet impact marker? Message-ID: <663115.41790.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bonjour - With Albert's permission. Enjoy. Merci Beaucoup, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas (Waiting for the IG's report on NASA's response to the Brown Ammendment.) --- On Fri, 6/5/09, Albert Jambon > Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 11:22 AM Ed, sorry but I tried when you first raised the question to write a detailed answer but it was not delivered to the met list, for reasons which I do not understand and had no time to inquire further. 3He is not a marker of cometary material. It is not specific to cometary material... and there is a debate going on about the relationship between cometary material and carbonaceous chondrites which could be the remant of extinct comets. There is abundant literature about the abundance and isotopic composition of He in all kinds of meteorites. Excess 3He (relative to the terrestrial atmospheric reference) is the rule. 3He alone means little, what matters also is the 3He/4He ratio. 1) 3He is a cosmogenic isotope (but not only) 2) In the solar wind the 3He/4He ratio is about 100 times that of the terrestrial atmosphere. Therefore the idea that 3He could be mined from the lunar regolith. 3) 3He is found in all meteorites, at different levels though, and trapped in a variety of components (carbonaceous matter is one). 4) To make it simple (?)(which is probably not) - we have primordial He (several components) trapped in the pristine material of meteorites (or comets). - we have He implanted from the solar wind (near the surface of samples) - we have cosmogenic 3He produced by nuclear reactions (spallation) during the travel through space. This component is more penetrative and decreases with depth. The last two components vary with the duration of exposure and usually dominate the budget. The first component varies with the type of extraterrestrial matter. Albert > > > > > > > >Hello Albert - I worded my question poorly. Is that > "No, no one > >knows" or "No, 3He is not a reliable marker"? Ed --- On > Thu, 6/4/09, > >Albert Jambon > wrote: > From: Albert Jambon > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Is 3He a > >reliable comet impact marker? > To: "E.P. Grondine" > > > > Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 10:52 AM > > >No > > > > > >Hi all - > > > > >Now that the shock has dissipated, I > >ask again if > anyone knows if > >3He is a > reliable cometary or > >comet marker? > > > >E.P. Grondine > > >Man and Impact in the > >Americas > > > > > > > > >______________________________________________ > > >http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > >Meteorite-list > >mailing > >list > >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > >-- > Albert JAMBON > Laboratoire Magie? 46-0 > 4eme ?tage, Case 110 > > >Universit? P et M Curie > 4 place jussieu 75252 > Paris Cedex O5 > >France > Tel: 33 (0) 144 27 51 35 > FAX: 33 (0) > 144 27 39 11 > > > >Parcours de Plan?tologie d'Ile de France > > >http://www.ipsl.jussieu.fr/formation/Planeto/Pageweb.html > > > Site > >du master SDUEE sp?cialit? G?osciences, > > G?omat?riaux > > >http://www.master.sduee.upmc.fr/M1/geo/geo_m1.htm > > > > > -- > Albert JAMBON > Laboratoire Magie? 46-0 4eme ?tage, Case 110 > Universit? P et M Curie > 4 place jussieu 75252 Paris Cedex O5 France > Tel: 33 (0) 144 27 51 35 > FAX: 33 (0) 144 27 39 11 > > Parcours de Plan?tologie d'Ile de France > http://www.ipsl.jussieu.fr/formation/Planeto/Pageweb.html > > Site du master SDUEE sp?cialit? G?osciences, > G?omat?riaux > http://www.master.sduee.upmc.fr/M1/geo/geo_m1.htm > > From gmhupe at htn.net Mon Jun 8 19:05:02 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:05:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Random or maybe ?????? References: <095DEF3192E740B5B2039BF526F5B481@laptop> Message-ID: <53EE1220024B4AC6A794A94B447A2CF5@Gregor> Hello Pete, Definitely no comparison! In fact, Habibi said he would have Dr. Jambon email me the "classification" of "5790". Never happened! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Shugar at clearwire.net" To: Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:12 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Random or maybe ?????? > Hello, list, > What are the chances that two consectitive numbered meteorites will both > be from Mars? > Even more so, they are different Martian meteorites.... > I'm asking about NWA 5789 and NWA 5790. > The former is announced by Greg and the later by > Aziz. > I'm by no means an expert, so I can't tell from the description, if they > are related or not. > It sure the heck would help if we knew the exact > find location of each of these exquisite pieces. > Pete IMCA 1733 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From erikfwebb at msn.com Mon Jun 8 19:31:57 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 16:31:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Palo Verde Mine Price Range Message-ID: What is the going prics range of Palo Verde Mine meteorites? From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon Jun 8 20:58:53 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:58:53 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Deep Discounts & Tamdakht Blowout Message-ID: <4A2DB3CD.5060005@meteoritesusa.com> Hi list, I'm continuing a big sale through today and most likely will continue this sale throughout the week depending on how it goes. I've added many very nice specimens to the site since my email last week.As for the website, there are loads of new meteorites listed, and I've discounted some really good material to move it fast. Here is the link to the NWA Meteorite Page: Take 10% Off Any Of These Specimens http://www.meteoritesusa.com/nwa-meteorites.htm Here is the link to the Premium Stone Meteorite Page: Take 5% Off Any Of These Specimens http://www.meteoritesusa.com/stone-meteorites-for-sale.htm BLOWOUT!: Tamdakht H5 Chondrite Half Cuts With Fusion Crust: Regular Price = $385 SALE PRICE = $248 Shipped BUY ALL 3 pieces 132.8 grams total weight, for only $1.87/g or $248 Shipped http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tamdakht-meteorite-for-sale.htm ------------------------------------------------ DEEP DISCOUNTS ON SELECT PIECES BELOW Multiple photos of each piece can be seen on this page http://www.meteoritesusa.com/stone-meteorites-for-sale.htm ------------------------------------------------ 451.6g Superbly Crusted Meteorite: REGULAR PRICE $399 SALE PRICE $299 WHOLE STONE Wonderfully thumbprinted and fusion crusted whole stone chondrite meteorite with awesome crackly black fusion crust. You don't see them this good very often. Meteorite specimens like this are rare and don't last long on the market. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-451-6g.jpg 323.9g Gator Skin Like Crackly Fusion Crust: REGULAR PRICE $299 SALE PRICE $199 CRUSTED END CUT FRAGMENT Fabulous fusion crust resembles scales on an alligator. Super crackly crust, and awesome light gray matrix full of iron make this piece a must have for your collection. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-323-9g.jpg 969.9g Chondrite With Multicolored Interior: REGULAR PRICE $485 SALE PRICE $385 This meteorite sports a wonderful multicolored matrix. Seems to have a good amount or iron. Good solid piece and very densely packes with massive numbers of chondrules. Nice crust and great shape. Displays very nicely from multiple angles. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-969-9g.jpg 427.3g Chondrite End Cut With Black Crust: REGULAR PRICE $320 SALE PRICE $220 CRUSTED END CUT FRAGMENT Good crackly fusion crust light graybrown matrix with a good amount of iron. Very nice piece for any collection. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-427-3g.jpg Deep discounts and 5% or 10% off deal cannot be combined... ;) Call 904-236-5394 to place your order or send in your order via email. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA 904-236-5394 From Impactika at aol.com Mon Jun 8 23:02:53 2009 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 23:02:53 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Last Call......for a while Message-ID: Hello Everybody, A week from right now I will be high above the Atlantic on my way to Paris, then Ensisheim. And I will be gone 2 weeks, to the Ensisheim Show, and a bit of vacation. So, if there is anything on my site you need right now, please let me know very quickly. And if you are planning to be in Ensisheim, tell me what you would like to see "in person" so to speak, and I'll pack it, and bring it with me. Besides "special requests" I will only bring my Thin-Sections collection to Ensisheim, it is getting close to 200 thin-sections, but it is still easier to carry than huge Campos (sorry Hans). See you in Ensisheim, if you are going. Otherwise, A bientot! Anne M. Black http://www.impactika.com/ IMPACTIKA at aol.com Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. http://www.imca.cc/ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585043x1201462775/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Tue Jun 9 00:26:40 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 00:26:40 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 9, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_9_2009.html __________________________ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322977x1201367197/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) From lintonius at earthlink.net Tue Jun 9 03:10:47 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 00:10:47 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - 535 Canyon Diablo relocated Message-ID: Nice little specimen moves from Grand Canyon to Lowell Observatory, in Flastaff. http://www.azdailysun.com/articles/2009/06/08/news/20090608_local_197778.txt I wish I had known it was at the Canyon. I've been there numerous times and didn't have a clue it was there Linton. From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Tue Jun 9 03:44:53 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:44:53 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Last Call......for a while In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090609084453.QQVKC.392202.root@web01-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi Anne, Looks like Ensisheim will be even more special than ever with the 10th Anniversary....Many thanks to Zelimir for all his hard work and generosity in helping me with my journey and contacts too. Looking forward to seeing you there Anne and all the others, Graham Ensor, UK ---- Impactika at aol.com wrote: > Hello Everybody, > > A week from right now I will be high above the Atlantic on my way to Paris, > then Ensisheim. And I will be gone 2 weeks, to the Ensisheim Show, and a > bit of vacation. > > So, if there is anything on my site you need right now, please let me know > very quickly. > And if you are planning to be in Ensisheim, tell me what you would like to > see "in person" so to speak, and I'll pack it, and bring it with me. Besides > "special requests" I will only bring my Thin-Sections collection to > Ensisheim, it is getting close to 200 thin-sections, but it is still easier to > carry than huge Campos (sorry Hans). > > See you in Ensisheim, if you are going. > Otherwise, A bientot! > > > Anne M. Black > http://www.impactika.com/ > IMPACTIKA at aol.com > Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. > http://www.imca.cc/ > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585043x1201462775/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JunestepsfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rochette at cerege.fr Tue Jun 9 04:00:34 2009 From: rochette at cerege.fr (rochette at cerege.fr) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:00:34 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject) Message-ID: dear list members for a research project I am looking for meteorites from the Sahara or Dhofar that may have been used by prehistoric man. If you think you have such man shaped artefact in your NWAs (or other collection area) please contact me off-list; we can expertise it. regards -- Pierre From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jun 9 05:42:07 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 09 Jun 2009 09:42:07 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5789 and NWA 5790 Message-ID: Hi Pete and List, "they are different Martian meteorites... " "I can't tell from the description, if they are related or not." If I got that right, they are two different Martians! According to Mr. Habibi's own comments, NWA 5790 is a *nakhlite* whereas Greg's, Stefan's and Martin's NWA 5789 is an anomalous *shergottite* or even a *new* type of Martian rock! Best from Germany, Bernd From rochette at cerege.fr Tue Jun 9 06:05:38 2009 From: rochette at cerege.fr (rochette at cerege.fr) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:05:38 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] prehistoric artefact made of meteorites Message-ID: (sorry for not including a subject in my previous post) dear list members for a research project I am looking for meteorites from the Sahara or Dhofar* that may have been used by prehistoric man. If you think you have such man shaped artefact in your NWAs (or other collection area) please contact me off-list; we can expertise it. regards *and more generally Africa and Middle East -- Pierre From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Tue Jun 9 07:16:02 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 13:16:02 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5789 and NWA 5790 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003a01c9e8f3$ad25c380$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Exactely! Nakhlites are a well established type of Mars rock, consisting of the 3 clasics: Nakhla, Lafayette and Governador Valadares, 2 Antarctic finds and 2 hot desert finds NWA 817 and NWA 998 - altogether around 27kgs. How rare they are you already can see on the numbers, as almost 5000 numbers lie in between the last find and that one, Therefore the recovery of NWA 5790 is a true sensation. The NWA 5789 is no nakhlite, nor will it be that easy to group it among the established classes, as it seems to be a kind of Mars rock, not yet known among the other Martian meteorites. Unfortunately it was not more than 49grams. It's new and unique and will stay subject of research for a longer while. Therefore the recovery of NWA 5789 is a true sensation. Under what for a denomination NWA 5789 will end in the Bulletin, nobody knows yet. The NomCom of MetSoc is with Martians still somewhat conservative and seems to want to subdue all under the old three main classes S,N or C. While the Mars-experts have a more differentiated system, e.g. they divide the shergottites in at least 5 subtypes. You see it for instance with the new peridotite NWA 4797, also a new type of Mars rock, which is listed now in the Bulletin database as "shergottite" and which the specialists wouldn't necessarily have called so. So maybe NWA 5789 will end up as a "shergottite" there too, but that doesn't change the new aspects, the material offers, in no way. But I guess that will change - it's a little bit like with the lunars, where they had in former times only two types - LUN-A for the anorthositic breccias and LUN-B for the basalts - and look, what for a variety of types we have now. The classification & meteorite science evolves with time and with new finds. Here some basics: As always first David Weir's famous Meteorite Studies: http://www.meteoritestudies.com/ Norbert Classen's Mars & Moon pages, With a complete list of all Martians, including sample pictures of all available Martians as well it is the best collection of main mass pictures: http://www.meteoris.de/ And brandnew, developing to a Martian pendant to Randy Korotev's fantastic lunar pages - Anthony Irvings Martian site: http://www.imca.cc/mars/martian-meteorites.htm Perhaps a remark. Although we're still waiting a little bit, that science can take its share and although we currently can't promise, that something will be left then from NWA 5789, you can apply for a specimen by private mail, to be set on the waiting list. No worries, we aren't cruel, the price of that unique material will be lower than the price of the nakhlites, although it's endlessly rarer. (Uh partially remarkably lower, if I google around....). All the Best! Martin & Stefan -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. Juni 2009 11:42 An: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] NWA 5789 and NWA 5790 Hi Pete and List, "they are different Martian meteorites... " "I can't tell from the description, if they are related or not." If I got that right, they are two different Martians! According to Mr. Habibi's own comments, NWA 5790 is a *nakhlite* whereas Greg's, Stefan's and Martin's NWA 5789 is an anomalous *shergottite* or even a *new* type of Martian rock! Best from Germany, Bernd ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Tue Jun 9 15:14:04 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:14:04 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Getting warm and wet from meteorites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2009/06/08/study-20-million-year-meteorite-shower-turned-earth-warm-wet/ Study: 20-Million-Year Meteorite Shower Turned Earth Warm & Wet A shower of millions of rocks from space that collided with Mars, the Earth, and the moon about four billion years ago could have warmed our planet and made it wetter, say researchers. That?s what scientists found when they heated ancient rocks like those that hit the Earth billions of years ago and measured the carbon dioxide and water that was released, according to a study published in the journal Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta. Scientists have long suspected that the necessary materials for life could have come from outer space, and the study suggests how and when the Earth might have received these life-giving ingredients. During the 20-million-year-long meteor shower known as the Late Heavy Bombardment, the rocks that hurtled towards Earth would have been heated to extremely high temperatures as they entered the atmosphere. According to the scientists? theory, the frictional heat of passing through the thin atmosphere that surrounded the Earth at that time would have been enough to strip the oxygen- and water-rich outer layers from the meteorites as they plunged toward the planet. That process would slowly have caused a buildup of oxygen and water in the atmosphere [Los Angeles Times]. At a rate of 20,000 degrees Celsius per second, the researchers heated samples of ancient rocks remaining from the bombardment in the absence of oxygen to prevent combustion. They then measured the gases released when the rocks were heated. The scientists found that, on average, each meteorite was capable of releasing up to 12 per cent of its mass as water vapour and 6 per cent of its mass as carbon dioxide [Scientific American]. Although that amount is too minuscule for just a meteor or two to have an effect on the Earth?s composition, records reveal that the Late Heavy Bombardment dumped millions of rocks on Earth and Mars. The researchers calculate that this would have dumped 10 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide and 10 billion tonnes of water vapour into each planet?s atmosphere every year [Scientific American]. That amount of carbon dioxide could have started a greenhouse effect to warm up the planet, researchers hypothesize. According to lead author Richard Court, the scientists? data ?reveals just how much water and carbon dioxide was directly injected into the atmosphere by meteorites. These gases could have got to work immediately, boosting the water cycle and warming the planet? [Astrobiology Magazine]. But if both Mars and Earth were bombarded by the meteorites, why isn?t Mars? atmosphere more conducive to life? Unlike Earth, Mars doesn?t have a magnetic field to act as a protective shield from the sun?s solar wind. As a consequence, Mars was stripped of most of its atmosphere. A reduction in volcanic activity also cooled the planet. This caused its liquid oceans to retreat to the poles where they became ice From mexicodoug at aim.com Tue Jun 9 14:51:53 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 14:51:53 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] - 535 Canyon Diablo relocated In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBB74A7ABF61C3-1760-F85@WEBMAIL-MZ07.sysops.aol.com> Hi Linton, List, How sad! - this smacks of Nininger's closing of his museum at Meteor Crater (Though I am sure the Barringers can identify with it as well). Lowell is the most deserving of institutions, but it looks like the meteorite is now in the part of the visitor center that requires more than a token payment to get in to the complex, whether visitors are interested in seeing the rest the observatory has to offer or not. Now departed is the Verkamps/early Nininger era in Zane Grey's bygone West (whose fiction included references to Meteor Crater). For anyone else like me who gets nostalgic seeing the dying breaths of home brewed cowboy and Indian administration go by the wayside, or the erasure of collective memories tooling down route 66 teaching screaming wide-eyed kids in the back seat learning that travel is so broadening, here's another article related to Linton's post. http://www.santafenewmexican.com/National%20News/Historic-Grand-Canyon-shop-to-close-after-102-years-at-the-rim Trouble with the link? then use this one: http://tinyurl.com/kw8l3e Also, you can't help noticing this part of Linton's linked article: "As to how the Verkamp family ended up with the fragment, Verkamp said, "We don't quite know." " Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Linton Rohr To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 2:10 am Subject: [meteorite-list] - 535 Canyon Diablo relocated Nice little specimen moves from Grand Canyon to Lowell Observatory, in Flastaff.? ? http://www.azdailysun.com/articles/2009/06/08/news/20090608_local_197778.txt? ? I wish I had known it was at the Canyon. I've been there numerous times and didn't have a clue it was there? ? Linton. ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jun 9 15:24:25 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Dawn Re-Lights the Ionic Fire Message-ID: <200906091924.MAA04542@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=2180 Dawn Re-Lights the Ionic Fire Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 08, 2009 Mission controllers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., have received a transmission from the Dawn spacecraft confirming it has re-ignited its ion propulsion system. For those of you scoring at home, Thruster # 1 received the honors. Over the course of its eight-year mission, first to asteroid Vesta and then off to dwarf planet Ceres, Dawn's three ion engines will accumulate 2,000 days of operation. The mission of the 1180 kilograms (2,600 pound) spacecraft is to reconnoiter Vesta and Ceres, the asteroid belt's two biggest residents. Dawn is currently 299 million kilometers (185.6 million miles) from Earth. At that distance, it takes almost 17 minutes for a transmission from the spacecraft to arrive on Earth. For more information on Dawn please visit: http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/ From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jun 9 15:26:43 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Orbiter Resumes Science Observations (MRO) Message-ID: <200906091926.MAA05475@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-096 Mars Orbiter Resumes Science Observations Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 09, 2009 Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter Mission Status Report PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is examining Mars again with its scientific instruments after successfully transitioning out of a precautionary standby mode triggered by an unexpected June 3 rebooting of its computer. Engineers brought the spacecraft out of the standby mode on June 6. Cameras and other scientific instruments resumed operation June 9. The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter reached Mars in 2006 and has returned more data about the planet than all other Mars missions combined. The June 3 rebooting resembled a Feb. 23 event on the spacecraft. Engineers are re-investigating possible root causes for both events. The new investigation includes reconsidering the likelihood of erroneous voltage readings resulting from cosmic rays or solar particles hitting an electronic component. Media Contact: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov 2009-096 From dave at fallingrocks.com Tue Jun 9 16:09:38 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:09:38 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad post for Robert Ward Message-ID: <81B2E357FF88404CAA1FB074DA603CAD@meteorroom> All, Robert is having the same difficulties many list members have had of late with his Yahoo address, so he asked me to forward this to all of you. He has some great material ending soon on eBay, and you can see the items via the links below. If you have any questions, he can be reached at ironfromthesky at yahoo.com. On behalf of Robert (www.ironfromthesky.com), thanks for looking! Dave 274 g. Henbury endcut http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item =170341209580 40 g. Gujba http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item =170341217908 112 g. Boxhole iron http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item =170341220884 736 g. Muonionalusta iron http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item =170341211155 116 g. Zacatecas iron slice http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item =170341206583 Dave Gheesling IMCA #5967 www.fallingrocks.com From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Tue Jun 9 16:25:16 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 13:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensishem Message-ID: <825980.50543.qm@web110606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi all, I am just home from a month-long expedition. I am working hard to catch up on old business, and getting ready to leave next week for France and Germany. I will attend both the Ensisheim and St Marie shows in France. I need to know if there is anything anyone there wants me to bring with me, as I will not be exhibiting except on a limited basis. I plan to relax, not work! Michael Farmer From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jun 9 16:47:05 2009 From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 13:47:05 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Postdoctoral position in Antarctic meteorite research In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Howdy ladies and gents, I'm passing on notification that a postdoctoral position in Antarctic meteorite research is available. The point of contact is Dr. Ralph Harvey at Case Western University, with contact info at the bottom. Cheers, MDF ------ Forwarded Message From: Ralph Harvey Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:08:51 -0700 To: "Fries, Marc D" Subject: Re: Answer Here's the ad........ Postdoctoral Position: Antarctic Meteorite Recovery and Planetary Research The Antarctic Search for Meteorites (ANSMET) program at Case Western Reserve University is seeking applications for a multi-year postdoctoral research position (title will vary with experience). Duties will include leadership during Antarctic meteorite fieldwork and active involvement in ongoing planetary research. Successful candidates must have a Ph.D. in geology, planetary science, or a related field. Candidates must also have a valid passport or be able to obtain one, and be capable of passing the stringent physical and dental examinations required for Antarctic deployment. Candidates with previous Antarctic experience and/or prior research in planetary studies are preferred. For more details visit http://geology.cwru.edu/~ansmet/postdoc_ad.pdf. To apply, send a letter of application with a summary of your research interests and experience, curriculum vitae, and contact information for three professional references to Dr Ralph Harvey (rph at case.edu) via electronic mail. Review of applications will begin immediately and continue until the position is filled. Case Western Reserve University is an EEO/AA institution. -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Ralph P. Harvey, Assoc. Prof. Phone: (216) 368-0198 Geology, 112 A.W. Smith Bldg. FAX: (216) 368-3691 Case Western Reserve University Cleveland, OH 44106-7216 rph at case.edu See the Antarctic Search for Meteorites website- http://geology.cwru.edu/~ansmet/ ------ End of Forwarded Message From geoking at notkin.net Tue Jun 9 17:28:34 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 14:28:34 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorwritings, " Richard Norton, and "The Art of Collecting Meteorites" Message-ID: Dear Listees: The June edition of "Meteorwritings" has been online for a few days. In keeping with Geology.com's interest in entry level content, this is a basic introduction to meteorite collecting for beginners. As always, we took a series of new photos for the column, and I think you will find a couple of them quite amusing. This month's episode is dedicated to our late friend Richard Norton, as he did so very much to popularize our favorite subject: http://geology.com/meteorites/meteorite-collecting.shtml In the article I recommend List member Kevin Kichinka's "The Art of Collecting Meteorites." I had the pleasure of working with Kevin on his lovely book, a while back, as design director. Kevin published the book himself, and I gather it is fairly close to selling out. Anyone who collects meteorite books and does not have a copy, may want to add this fine edition to his/her library before they are all gone. You can order a copy from directly from Kevin here: http://www.theartofcollectingmeteorites.com In addition, I wrote a brief piece about Richard for my science column on TucsonCitizen.com. Anyone who is interested can find it here: http://tucsoncitizen.com/lizard/2009/06/04/richard-norton-space-rock-writer Thanks for reading and all the best from Tucson, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com www.meteoriteblog.org From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jun 9 18:19:26 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 09 Jun 2009 22:19:26 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorwritings, " Richard Norton, and "The Art of Collecting Meteorites" Message-ID: Geoff kindly writes: "This month's episode is dedicated to our late friend Richard Norton, as he did so very much to popularize our favorite subject:" http://geology.com/meteorites/meteorite-collecting.shtml "In addition, I wrote a brief piece about Richard for my science column on TucsonCitizen.com. Anyone who is interested can find it here:" http://tucsoncitizen.com/lizard/2009/06/04/richard-norton-space-rock-writer Thank you very much for sharing with us! The photo that shows our late friend Richard Norton accepting the Harvey Award for outstanding contributions to the field of meteoritics during the 2003 Tucson gem show with a smiling Dorothy in the background reminds me of a fascinating, little episode of the 2008 Munich show: Our younger grandson Elias who is "only" six years young, loves and adores dinosaurs. The first question he usually asks when he comes to our house is: "Grandpa, can I watch this or that dinosaur DVD". A few moments later, you can ask him if he wants something to drink, whether he wants something to eat, ... no answer because he is so enthusiastic about these critters that he just doesn't hear you :-) Close to the entrance to the 2008 Munich show, my Pauline and I, we suddenly spotted a group of (Swiss?) people offering dinosaur replicas -- not cheap because expertly made! Well, we acquired the only T-Rex tooth replica that was left to the disappointment of a German list member who would also have liked such a genuine copy of the "real thing!" Elias' reaction when he saw this T-Rex tooth is beyond description! Not only was it carefully packed but it also contained detailed info about the former owner of this tooth: Stan, a majestic "Tyrant Lizard King" roaming the Hell Creek Formation, Upper Cretaceous, South Dakota, USA, about 65 million years ago. Let me now come back to your brief piece about Richard on TucsonCitizen.com, where we can see a smiling Dorothy in the background. When I read the leaflet that came with Stan's tooth and when I scanned the contents into my computer for later use when Elias is old enough to really "appreciate" what he has got, I suddenly saw a precise rendering of a dinosaur's skull on one of these leaflets. I don't think I have to tell you who the artist of this skull is and that's only one reason why Dorothy was the co-recipient of that award! Best from Germany, Bernd From roxfromspace at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 18:57:08 2009 From: roxfromspace at gmail.com (Phil Morgan) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:57:08 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5546 and CV3's in general Message-ID: <70baf8d20906091557h5dd17f50g459b83c07f6ae25@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone, I recently purchased a small endpiece of what I assumed was probably a pairing to NWA 5546. After cleaning it up a bit, I noticed an overall elongation and orientation of the chondrules.? I was wondering if anyone else would agree from the picture at the link below. http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/pkmorgan/share/cv3b.jpg I've always been fascinated by Leoville and while this may not be as extreme, I thought I'd go out on a limb and see if anyone else saw it. For those of you who have some, does this look like NWA 5546? Is there any reason to believe this might not even be a CV3? Also, I tend to collect smaller pieces to match my budget and was surprised at how hard this pulled to a magnet.? More like an H chondrite.? How do the different carbonaceous classes typically respond to a magnet?? In Ruben's recent CK recovery video I recall that those responsed fairly strongly as well. Thanks, Phil From deanbessey at yahoo.com Tue Jun 9 19:12:23 2009 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 16:12:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5546 and CV3's in general Message-ID: <325711.15243.qm@web56104.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I also have something similar and it is also very strongly magnetic. See here some photos: http://www.ilovenewfoundland.com/meteoriteshop/x/1.jpg http://www.ilovenewfoundland.com/meteoriteshop/x/2.jpg Look at how georgous it is from this photo: http://www.ilovenewfoundland.com/meteoriteshop/x/3.jpg Here almost looks like a part where chondrules is missing http://www.ilovenewfoundland.com/meteoriteshop/x/4.jpg http://www.ilovenewfoundland.com/meteoriteshop/x/5.jpg The stone before I cut the end off was 894 Grams. Pretty nice whatever it is Cheers DEAN --- On Tue, 6/9/09, Phil Morgan wrote: > From: Phil Morgan > Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5546 and CV3's in general > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 3:57 PM > Hello everyone, > I recently purchased a small endpiece of what I assumed was > probably a > pairing to NWA 5546. > > After cleaning it up a bit, I noticed an overall elongation > and > orientation of the chondrules. I was wondering if anyone > else would > agree from the picture at the link below. > http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/pkmorgan/share/cv3b.jpg > > I've always been fascinated by Leoville and while this may > not be as > extreme, I thought I'd go out on a limb and see if anyone > else saw it. > > For those of you who have some, does this look like NWA > 5546? Is > there any reason to believe this might not even be a CV3? > > Also, I tend to collect smaller pieces to match my budget > and was > surprised at how hard this pulled to a magnet. More like > an H > chondrite. How do the different carbonaceous classes > typically > respond to a magnet? In Ruben's recent CK recovery video > I recall > that those responsed fairly strongly as well. > > Thanks, > Phil > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From geoking at notkin.net Tue Jun 9 21:01:21 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 18:01:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Historic Monnig Collection Pieces, Big Sikhotes and LDG, etc. Message-ID: <39462409-6146-4610-8BE7-3AB8DD578863@notkin.net> Dear Listees: Greetings all. I am delighted to offer a fine assortment of historic pieces from the Oscar Monnig Collection. We have individuals, slices and part slices from six classic Texas chondrites: Davy (a), Davy (b), Dimmitt, Round Top (b), Tulia (a) and Tulia (d). All specimens come with original Monnig Collection labels and the Dimmitt and Tulia individuals carry hand painted Monnig Collection numbers (as cataloged by Glenn Huss) AND a second set of numbers which were Oscar's personal code noting where the specimen was found. http://www.aerolite.org/historic-meteorites.htm#monnig I am offering a free copy of "The Oscar E. Monnig Meteorite Collection Catalog" for any purchase of $200 or more. Order today and pay with PayPal before midnight Pacific and take 10% off your order too. Please check out our Museum Quality Specimens page for some real cosmic wonders: http://www.aerolite.org/museum-specimens.htm Of special note: A 10.02 kilo Sikhote-Alin shrapnel specimen, shield shaped and covered with fascinating surface features. This very large piece defies gravity and stands up naturally on its edge, making for a dynamite display piece. Look at the photos and you'll see what I mean. Really, we did not prop it up!: http://www.aerolite.org/museum/sikhote-alin-shrap-10kg.htm Also, an intriguing large Sikhote-Alin individual, 2,971 grams, with good regmaglypts and amazing pointing "fingers": http://www.aerolite.org/museum/sikhote-alin-2971.htm All recent additions can be viewed on one page here: http://www.aerolite.org/new.htm And finally for today, we are down to our last small handful of the limited edition "Meteorite Men" Brenham collectibles in lucite. Only 100 of this special edition were made by Steve #1 and myself, and they come with a numbered Certificate of Authenticity and a signed color photo of the excavation of the complete mass. Details: http://www.aerolite.org/meteoritemen/brenham-kansas-meteorite.htm We have less than ten left, so let me know pronto if you want one. As always, we ship anywhere in the known universe and happily accept PayPal, checks, money orders, and major credit cards. Layaways available. Reasonable offers always considered. Thanks for looking and all the best from the Wild West, Geoff N. Aerolite Meteorites of Tucson www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com www.meteoriteblog.org www.tucsoncitizen.com/lizard From mpg4444 at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 21:37:12 2009 From: mpg4444 at gmail.com (Michael Groetz) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 21:37:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star Message-ID: http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230 The tale of a falling star By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter Tuesday, June 09, 2009 CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work. A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for money and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun and profit. In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade, and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley would surrender its ancient treasures. Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of income for anyone willing to turn over a few stones. For this trip he chose a uniquely constructed ruin located on a windswept, five-acre mesa above West Clear Creek. With a view of the entire valley, the outline of its crumbled walls looked more like a stockade than a home, a nearly square perimeter of rooms surrounding a common courtyard. Latter-day archaeologists believe the pueblo was built by people of the Salado culture, indigenous to the Salt River Valley, instead of the native Sinagua whose former homes make up the bulk of the Verde's ancient architecture. A very good day One day while searching through rubble in the northeast corner of one room, Dawson spied a familiar structure -- one that led him to believe it was going to be a good day -- a very good day. The flat slab of sandstone at his feet, he knew to be the cover of a burial cyst, just the right size to contain the body of a child, along with whatever treasures the family had packed along for the afterlife. Dawson slid the cover back and began clearing the accumulated dirt and debris. Eighteen inches down he uncovered a layer of feathers. As he gently scraped away he realized in was a blanket of feathers, wrapped about the cherished treasure. An hour or so later, having cleared out all but the feather blanket and its contents, he reached in and gently lifted the bundle. It pulled back. A second more forceful tug and Dawson realized it was not the lightweight body of the child he had expected. With great difficulty, he wrestled the object from its grave, pulled back the delicate feather blanket and found himself gazing at a two-foot long, one-foot wide, five-inch thick, 135-pound, oddly-shaped hunk of rusting rock. Dawson had an idea of what he was looking at, but it was not until several months later, after it was tested, that he knew for sure. The object so delicately wrapped and reverently placed in the stone cyst was a nickel-iron meteorite, or what meteorite collectors call simply, an iron. The second journey To date, know one knows how it got there. We do know that Dawson sold it in 1939 to one of the preeminent meteorite researchers and collectors of his day, Harold Harlow Nininger, who dubbed it the Camp Verde Meteorite. Convention dictated it be named for the closest post office or geological feature. We also know that in 1959 Nininger sold the meteorite, along with more than 700 others, to Arizona State University, where it is currently housed in the school's meteorite collection at ASU's Center for Meteorite Studies. What significance the object held to the architecturally unique souls who once lived on Wingfield Mesa, we will likely never know. Archaeologists have uncovered feather blankets, and several meteorites, in archaeological digs. Dawson is the only one to have found both of them together. Religious significance A year after Dawson's find, two pothunters discovered another meteorite in a stone cyst, or at least 40 to 50 pounds of fragments thereof, in a ruin east of Flagstaff. It became known as the Winona Meteorite and is now on display at the museum of Northern Arizona. Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe, N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin near Chihuahua, Mexico. As Peter Pilles, archaeologist for the Coconino National Forest, has observed, when archaeologists are uncertain about an object's use or importance, they give it religious significance. But in the case of the Camp Verde meteorite, with its feather wrappings and the fact it was stored in the same manner as human remains, there can be little doubt it was held in reverence. Scientific questions Lawrence Garvie, director of meteorite collection at ASU, is a scientist both by nature and by training. But even he can't help but speculate on the meteorite's unusual shape and significance. "It looks to me more like a child than a leaf or an arrowhead, as some have described it. It has a distinctive head and shoulders, and a very pronounced backbone that appears to have been rubbed smooth by human touch. And when struck it has a beautiful ringing sound," Garvie says. For scientists like Garvie, and the Center for Meteorites Studies founder and former director, Carleton Moore, the meteorite also poses some real world questions, not the least of which is where did it fall and how did it end up in the ruins of an ancient pueblo. About 50,000 years ago, a 150-foot diameter, 300,000-ton, iron and nickel meteorite crashed into Canyon Diablo outside of modern-day Winslow, creating Meteor Crater. The impact vaporized at least half and scattered the remaining pieces across a wide area of the Colorado Plateau. "The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that it does not look like the other Canyon Diablo irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, is identical. So the only conclusion we can make is that it is a piece of Canyon Diablo. "But I have always had my doubts. The other great puzzle is also how did it get so far from Meteor Crater. The nomadic people who lived in Arizona didn't lug these sorts of things around." Garvie and Moore both believe it is possible the Camp Verde meteorite was a fragment that separated from the main mass of the Canyon Diablo meteorite as it broke apart in the atmosphere, landing farther south. Fact or fiction As for the fate of the feather blanket, it was parceled out and lost. According to a correspondence from Dawson to Nininger, he (Dawson) gave away pieces of the blanket to collectors over the years. It would seem possible that the entire story of the Camp Verde meteorite is pure fiction, dreamt up by Dawson to make an otherwise common iron meteorite more valuable, were it not for statements in a narrative Nininger later wrote. Nininger notes he never heard the story of the meteorite's discovery until he came to Phoenix to make the purchase. There is also the fact that he bought it for what he described as no more than "the price usually paid for Canyon Diablo irons ($0.50 per pound)." Lastly, in April 1940, at Nininger's request, Dawson brought him to Camp Verde to see the pueblo and search for feathers or the remains of the cyst. "We hunted the long line of obscure ruins until he reached the crumbled walls of a small room, in the corner of which was a slight depression and several flat stones protruding from the drifted dust and debris. "Digging out the filling of dust and weeds failed to reveal a shred of the feather cloth wrapping, but this was hardly surprising...We gathered the flat stones and made several trips down the steep slope to the car and back again," Nininger states. Final journey The ancient owners of the Camp Verde meteorite may or may not have lugged it around in their travels, but Nininger did. For seven years following its purchase, he continued to search the planet for what had fallen from the heavens. Then in 1946, he quit the road and established the American Meteorite Museum on Route 66 near Meteor Crater, where it went on public display. In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley for the first time in nearly 800 years. Today the Camp Verde meteorite rests prominently on a table with two dozen other irons, many of which came with the Nininger collection, in the center of a room containing hundreds of other meteorites from across the world and, ultimately, beyond. From mexicodoug at aim.com Tue Jun 9 23:40:35 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 23:40:35 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> Great article, though this paragraph about other "meteors" being found need editing: "Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe, N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin near Chihuahua, Mexico." The Incas, of course are not from Chihuahua, but a good fraction of a world away in Peru ... The author is referring to the Paquim? pueblo of the probably Anasazi Pueblo type Indians (Like from the US southwest), though they may have had a tad more of Aztec influence. And the meteorite is from INSIDE Chihuahua (the state), and NEAR Nuevas Casas Grandes. It was found far from Chihuahua City actually much closer to Arizona which is just 93 miles away. Political boundaries...bah :-) Does anyone recall what other ancient ruins yielded authenticated meteorites outside the Americas as claiming by the article they are found "all around the world in ancient ruins". I am thinking Greece, Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes to mind. And the Japanese one was certainly not found in ruins. Another tear shed today after reading about the other Grand Canyon fragment... "In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley for the first time in nearly 800 yea rs." One (at least me) wonders whether the "800 year buried piece of Canyon Diablo (Camp Verde piece)" was ever at all "on display" on the Native American Sinagua or if it was placed to rest with that stone ceremonially out of sight with respects being rendered specifically NOT to be displayed, I am not sure how this statement about displaying could be made in the article with any accuracy, and suppose the author really got carried away trying to say the Camp Verde piece is on display in the Verde Vally of AZ...but not sure; thanks for the post! Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Michael Groetz To: Meteorite List Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:37 pm Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230 The tale of a falling star By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter Tuesday, June 09, 2009 CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work. A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for money and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun and profit. In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade, and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley would surren der its ancient treasures. Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of income for anyone willing to turn over a few stones. For this trip he chose a uniquely constructed ruin located on a windswept, five-acre mesa above West Clear Creek. With a view of the entire valley, the outline of its crumbled walls looked more like a stockade than a home, a nearly square perimeter of rooms surrounding a common courtyard. Latter-day archaeologists believe the pueblo was built by people of the Salado culture, indigenous to the Salt River Valley, instead of the native Sinagua whose former homes make up the bulk of the Verde's ancient architecture. A very good day One day while searching through rubble in the northeast corner of one room, Dawson spied a familiar structure -- one that led him to believe it was going to be a good day -- a very good day. The flat slab of sandstone at his feet, he knew to be the cover of a burial cyst, just the right size to contain the body of a child, along with whatever treasures the family had packed along for the afterlife. Dawson slid the cover back and began clearing the accumulated dirt and debris. Eighteen inches down he uncovered a layer of feathers. As he gently scraped away he realized in was a blanket of feathers, wrapped about the cherished treasure. An hour or so later, having cleared out all but the feather blanket and its contents, he reached20in and gently lifted the bundle. It pulled back. A second more forceful tug and Dawson realized it was not the lightweight body of the child he had expected. With great difficulty, he wrestled the object from its grave, pulled back the delicate feather blanket and found himself gazing at a two-foot long, one-foot wide, five-inch thick, 135-pound, oddly-shaped hunk of rusting rock. Dawson had an idea of what he was looking at, but it was not until several months later, after it was tested, that he knew for sure. The object so delicately wrapped and reverently placed in the stone cyst was a nickel-iron meteorite, or what meteorite collectors call simply, an iron. The second journey To date, know one knows how it got there. We do know that Dawson sold it in 1939 to one of the preeminent meteorite researchers and collectors of his day, Harold Harlow Nininger, who dubbed it the Camp Verde Meteorite. Convention dictated it be named for the closest post office or geological feature. We also know that in 1959 Nininger sold the meteorite, along with more than 700 others, to Arizona State University, where it is currently housed in the school's meteorite collection at ASU's Center for Meteorite Studies. What significance the object held to the architecturally unique souls who once lived on Wingfield Mesa, we will likely never know. Archaeologists have uncovered feather blankets, and several meteorites, in archaeological digs. Dawson is the only one to have found both of them together. Religious significance A year after Dawson's find, two pothunters discovered another meteorite in a stone cyst, or at least 40 to 50 pounds of fragments thereof, in a ruin east of Flagstaff. It became known as the Winona Meteorite and is now on display at the museum of Northern Arizona. Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe, N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin near Chihuahua, Mexico. As Peter Pilles, archaeologist for the Coconino National Forest, has observed, when archaeologists are uncertain about an object's use or importance, they give it religious significance. But in the case of the Camp Verde meteorite, with its feather wrappings and the fact it was stored in the same manner as human remains, there can be little doubt it was held in reverence. Scientific questions Lawrence Garvie, director of meteorite collection at ASU, is a scientist both by nature and by training. But even he can't help but speculate on the meteorite's unusual shape and significance. "It looks to me more like a child than a leaf or an arrowhead, as some have described it. It has a distinctive head and shoulders, and a very pronounced backbone that appears to have been rubbed smooth by human touch. And when struck it has a beautiful ringing sound," Garvie says. For scientists like Garvie, and the Center for Meteorites Studies founder and former director, Carleton Moore, the meteorite also poses some real world questions, not the least of which is where did it fall and how did it end up in the ruins of an ancient pueblo. About 50,000 years ago, a 150-foot diameter, 300,000-ton, iron and nickel meteorite crashed into Canyon Diablo outside of modern-day Winslow, creating Meteor Crater. The impact vaporized at least half and scattered the remaining pieces across a wide area of the Colorado Plateau. "The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that it does not look like the other Canyon Diablo irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, is identical. So the only conclusion we can make is that it is a piece of Canyon Diablo. "But I have always had my doubts. The other great puzzle is also how did it get so far from Meteor Crater. The nomadic people who lived in Arizona didn't lug these sorts of things around." Garvie and Moore both believe it is possible the Camp Verde meteorite was a fragment that separated from the main mass of the Canyon Diablo meteorite as it broke apart in the atmosphere, landing farther south. Fact or fiction As for the fate of the feather blanket, it was parceled out and lost. According to a correspondence from Dawson to Nininger, he (Dawson) gave away pieces of the blanket=2 0to collectors over the years. It would seem possible that the entire story of the Camp Verde meteorite is pure fiction, dreamt up by Dawson to make an otherwise common iron meteorite more valuable, were it not for statements in a narrative Nininger later wrote. Nininger notes he never heard the story of the meteorite's discovery until he came to Phoenix to make the purchase. There is also the fact that he bought it for what he described as no more than "the price usually paid for Canyon Diablo irons ($0.50 per pound)." Lastly, in April 1940, at Nininger's request, Dawson brought him to Camp Verde to see the pueblo and search for feathers or the remains of the cyst. "We hunted the long line of obscure ruins until he reached the crumbled walls of a small room, in the corner of which was a slight depression and several flat stones protruding from the drifted dust and debris. "Digging out the filling of dust and weeds failed to reveal a shred of the feather cloth wrapping, but this was hardly surprising...We gathered the flat stones and made several trips down the steep slope to the car and back again," Nininger states. Final journey The ancient owners of the Camp Verde meteorite may or may not have lugged it around in their travels, but Nininger did. For seven years following its purchase, he continued to search the planet for what had fallen from the heavens. Then in 1946, he quit the road and esta blished the American Meteorite Museum on Route 66 near Meteor Crater, where it went on public display. In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley for the first time in nearly 800 years. Today the Camp Verde meteorite rests prominently on a table with two dozen other irons, many of which came with the Nininger collection, in the center of a room containing hundreds of other meteorites from across the world and, ultimately, beyond. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritekid at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 23:53:58 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:53:58 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - 11.5g Esquel Slice Message-ID: <93aaac890906092053o23d32b9cn522241240717d3f@mail.gmail.com> Hello All, I have an 11.5g square-cut Esquel part-slice for sale or trade. It's an older, slightly thicker slice so the olivine actually looks bright green, rather unlike the thinner slices that have been on the market more recently which have better surface area but much less colour. From what I can tell, *no* lacquer was used to restore the olivine in this specimen - it looks to be completely original, even on the corners. Sharp corners and edges, a perfect piece for jewelry-making or for a collector looking for a prime example of a pallasite. There's no rust, but it could use a light buffing to get rid of minor surface things like fingerprints. A fine specimen of a getting-harder-to-find meteorite. Photos available here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/30622578 at N08/sets/72157619522338206/ Asking $400. Open to offers or trades. Thanks, Jason From dave at fallingrocks.com Wed Jun 10 00:53:00 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:53:00 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad post for Robert Ward (revised links) Message-ID: <275B342324D94F20BBB8FF3BCA3A11D8@meteorroom> All, Apologies for the re-post on Robert's auctions, but the links I forwarded earlier were apparently not good. Hopefully these work... Best, Dave 274 g. Henbury endcut http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170341209580 40 g. Gujba http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170341217908 112 g. Boxhole iron http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170341220884 736 g. Muonionalusta iron http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170341211155 116 g. Zacatecas iron slice http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170341206583 Dave Gheesling IMCA #5967 www.fallingrocks.com From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 10 00:57:09 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:57:09 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star References: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Doug said: > I am thinking [of] Greece, Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes > to mind. I'm sure Doug named those places because there were famous meteorites of religious significance associated with sites there. While it is true that their whereabouts is presently unknown [and will likely remain that way), there's no doubt whatsoever about their existence. So, no, no ancient ruins "yielded" authenticated meteorites. You see, there was this obscure religious cult that took over and tried, with great success, to destroy all traces of any previous religious worship, temples, shrines, relics, and so forth. No meteorite survivors of Greece and Rome are known. However, there are pieces of the "Black Stone" of the Kaa'ba, a meteorite, in Turkey (by a List memeber): http://kauscience.k12.hi.us/~ted/Blackstone/hajar-al-aswad.htm The meteoritic nature (or non-nature) of a famous Temple stone is discussed by another List member: http://imca.repetti.net/articles/IMCA-Insights4.htm Evidence in coinage of Temple stones, some of which were meteorites, can be found here (more List members): http://www.pibburns.com/catastro/metstamp.htm#classicalcoins A discussion of various meteoritic Temple stones can be found here (Popular ASstronomy, 1936, at ADS): http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1936PA.....44..514W/0000514.000.html Traditionally, the Classical Temple stones were "nose-cone" shaped. In a word, oriented (if they were meteorites). There is a fascinating discussion of why the baetyls that are found are not actually meteorites. The explanation? Lots of shrines, but not so many meteorites! http://www.ancients.info/forums/showthread.php?t=845 Everybody wants a meteorite for their Temple, ya know? Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star > Great article, though this paragraph about other "meteors" being found > need editing: > > "Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as > well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce > Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe, > N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin > near Chihuahua, Mexico." > > The Incas, of course are not from Chihuahua, but a good fraction of a > world away in Peru ... The author is referring to the Paquim? pueblo > of the probably Anasazi Pueblo type Indians (Like from the US > southwest), though they may have had a tad more of Aztec influence. > And the meteorite is from INSIDE Chihuahua (the state), and NEAR > Nuevas Casas Grandes. It was found far from Chihuahua City actually > much closer to Arizona which is just 93 miles away. Political > boundaries...bah :-) > > Does anyone recall what other ancient ruins yielded authenticated > meteorites outside the Americas as claiming by the article they are > found "all around the world in ancient ruins". I am thinking Greece, > Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes to mind. And the Japanese > one was certainly not found in ruins. > > Another tear shed today after reading about the other Grand Canyon > fragment... > > "In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his > collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley > for the first time in nearly 800 yea > rs." > > One (at least me) wonders whether the "800 year buried piece of Canyon > Diablo (Camp Verde piece)" was ever at all "on display" on the Native > American Sinagua or if it was placed to rest with that stone > ceremonially out of sight with respects being rendered specifically > NOT to be displayed, I am not sure how this statement about displaying > could be made in the article with any accuracy, and suppose the author > really got carried away trying to say the Camp Verde piece is on > display in the Verde Vally of AZ...but not sure; thanks for the post! > > Best wishes, > Doug > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Groetz > To: Meteorite List > Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:37 pm > Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star > > > > http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230 > > The tale of a falling star > By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter > > Tuesday, June 09, 2009 > > CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work. > > A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout > Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for money > and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun and > profit. > > In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix > resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade, > and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley would > surren > der its ancient treasures. > > Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of income > for anyone willing to turn over a few stones. > > For this trip he chose a uniquely constructed ruin located on a > windswept, five-acre mesa above West Clear Creek. > > With a view of the entire valley, the outline of its crumbled walls > looked more like a stockade than a home, a nearly square perimeter of > rooms surrounding a common courtyard. > > Latter-day archaeologists believe the pueblo was built by people of > the Salado culture, indigenous to the Salt River Valley, instead of > the native Sinagua whose former homes make up the bulk of the Verde's > ancient architecture. > > A very good day > > One day while searching through rubble in the northeast corner of one > room, Dawson spied a familiar structure -- one that led him to believe > it was going to be a good day -- a very good day. > > The flat slab of sandstone at his feet, he knew to be the cover of a > burial cyst, just the right size to contain the body of a child, along > with whatever treasures the family had packed along for the afterlife. > > Dawson slid the cover back and began clearing the accumulated dirt and > debris. Eighteen inches down he uncovered a layer of feathers. As he > gently scraped away he realized in was a blanket of feathers, wrapped > about the cherished treasure. > > An hour or so later, having cleared out all but the feather blanket > and its contents, he reached20in and gently lifted the bundle. > > It pulled back. > > A second more forceful tug and Dawson realized it was not the > lightweight body of the child he had expected. > > With great difficulty, he wrestled the object from its grave, pulled > back the delicate feather blanket and found himself gazing at a > two-foot long, one-foot wide, five-inch thick, 135-pound, oddly-shaped > hunk of rusting rock. > > Dawson had an idea of what he was looking at, but it was not until > several months later, after it was tested, that he knew for sure. The > object so delicately wrapped and reverently placed in the stone cyst > was a nickel-iron meteorite, or what meteorite collectors call simply, > an iron. > > The second journey > > To date, know one knows how it got there. > > We do know that Dawson sold it in 1939 to one of the preeminent > meteorite researchers and collectors of his day, Harold Harlow > Nininger, who dubbed it the Camp Verde Meteorite. Convention dictated > it be named for the closest post office or geological feature. > > We also know that in 1959 Nininger sold the meteorite, along with more > than 700 others, to Arizona State University, where it is currently > housed in the school's meteorite collection at ASU's Center for > Meteorite Studies. > > What significance the object held to the architecturally unique souls > who once lived on Wingfield Mesa, we will likely never know. > Archaeologists have uncovered feather blankets, and several > meteorites, in archaeological digs. > Dawson is the only one to have > found both of them together. > > Religious significance > > A year after Dawson's find, two pothunters discovered another > meteorite in a stone cyst, or at least 40 to 50 pounds of fragments > thereof, in a ruin east of Flagstaff. It became known as the Winona > Meteorite and is now on display at the museum of Northern Arizona. > > Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as > well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce > Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe, > N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin > near Chihuahua, Mexico. > > As Peter Pilles, archaeologist for the Coconino National Forest, has > observed, when archaeologists are uncertain about an object's use or > importance, they give it religious significance. > > But in the case of the Camp Verde meteorite, with its feather > wrappings and the fact it was stored in the same manner as human > remains, there can be little doubt it was held in reverence. > > Scientific questions > > Lawrence Garvie, director of meteorite collection at ASU, is a > scientist both by nature and by training. But even he can't help but > speculate on the meteorite's unusual shape and significance. > > "It looks to me more like a child than a leaf or an arrowhead, as some > have described it. It has a distinctive head and shoulders, and a very > pronounced backbone that appears to have been rubbed smooth by human > touch. And when struck it has a beautiful ringing sound," Garvie says. > > For scientists like Garvie, and the Center for Meteorites Studies > founder and former director, Carleton Moore, the meteorite also poses > some real world questions, not the least of which is where did it fall > and how did it end up in the ruins of an ancient pueblo. > > About 50,000 years ago, a 150-foot diameter, 300,000-ton, iron and > nickel meteorite crashed into Canyon Diablo outside of modern-day > Winslow, creating Meteor Crater. The impact vaporized at least half > and scattered the remaining pieces across a wide area of the Colorado > Plateau. > > "The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that it does not look like > the other Canyon Diablo irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, > is identical. So the only conclusion we can make is that it is a piece > of Canyon Diablo. > > "But I have always had my doubts. The other great puzzle is also how > did it get so far from Meteor Crater. The nomadic people who lived in > Arizona didn't lug these sorts of things around." > > Garvie and Moore both believe it is possible the Camp Verde meteorite > was a fragment that separated from the main mass of the Canyon Diablo > meteorite as it broke apart in the atmosphere, landing farther south. > > Fact or fiction > > As for the fate of the feather blanket, it was parceled out and lost. > According to a correspondence from Dawson to Nininger, he (Dawson) > gave away pieces of the blanket=2 > 0to collectors over the years. > > It would seem possible that the entire story of the Camp Verde > meteorite is pure fiction, dreamt up by Dawson to make an otherwise > common iron meteorite more valuable, were it not for statements in a > narrative Nininger later wrote. > > Nininger notes he never heard the story of the meteorite's discovery > until he came to Phoenix to make the purchase. There is also the fact > that he bought it for what he described as no more than "the price > usually paid for Canyon Diablo irons ($0.50 per pound)." > > Lastly, in April 1940, at Nininger's request, Dawson brought him to > Camp Verde to see the pueblo and search for feathers or the remains of > the cyst. > > "We hunted the long line of obscure ruins until he reached the > crumbled walls of a small room, in the corner of which was a slight > depression and several flat stones protruding from the drifted dust > and debris. > > "Digging out the filling of dust and weeds failed to reveal a shred of > the feather cloth wrapping, but this was hardly surprising...We > gathered the flat stones and made several trips down the steep slope > to the car and back again," Nininger states. > > Final journey > > The ancient owners of the Camp Verde meteorite may or may not have > lugged it around in their travels, but Nininger did. For seven years > following its purchase, he continued to search the planet for what had > fallen from the heavens. > > Then in 1946, he quit the road and esta > blished the American Meteorite > Museum on Route 66 near Meteor Crater, where it went on public > display. > > In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his > collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley > for the first time in nearly 800 years. > > Today the Camp Verde meteorite rests prominently on a table with two > dozen other irons, many of which came with the Nininger collection, in > the center of a room containing hundreds of other meteorites from > across the world and, ultimately, beyond. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Wed Jun 10 01:17:35 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:17:35 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 10, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_10_2009.html __________________________ http://www.rocksfromspace.org **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell?s full line of laptops. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222008777x1201444407/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435 8%3Bv) From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jun 10 02:00:53 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 23:00:53 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Never Before Available- GRIFFITH, TEXAS, Ungrouped Ataxite Message-ID: Hello, Today I am offering a very rare and unusual Ataxite from Texas. The Griffith, Texas Ataxite is ungrouped and is loaded with many rare elements. It is a soft Ataxite compared to others, and was difficult to polish. Many of the slices have inclusions, some very light and hard to see, other distinct. Total weight available is less than 1500 grams. A lot of specimens have gone quickly into institutions and major private collections. I will consider trades on some of the slices, but would prefer to stay with trading for other iron meteorites with this one. Average price depending on size is $10.00 per gram. However, after 10 days the price goes to $15.00 per gram. It really is rare, low total known weight, and not much available. GRIFFITH Ungrouped Ataxite Meteoritical Bulletin Info: Griffith Cochran County, Texas, USA Found 1985, summer Iron, ataxite (ungrouped) A ~6 kg (~13 pound) iron meteorite was found by Daniel de los Santos while he was hoeing in a cotton field. Description (T. McCoy and R. Clarke, SI) and classification (J. Wasson, UCLA): bulk metal composition, Co = 0.73 wt %, Ni = 14.3 wt%, Ga = 0.3 ppm, As = 0.2 ppm, Ir = 10 ppm, Au = 0.06 ppm; composition is similar to group IVB. Specimens: type specimen, 120 g, contact M. Gower, TTech; 83 g plus polished section, SI. This was a difficult meteorite to rescue out of the field! The owner of this meteorite first contacted me a few months ago, telling me that they did indeed have a meteorite and that they wanted to sell it. They gave me enough information to convince me that maybe it was indeed a meteorite. I drove to Texas to check it out. Yes, it was a meteorite and it was already classified too! However, at first the owners only wanted to sell me a small portion of this Ataxite, because they wanted to keep the rest to make jewelry! Yikes. I worked hard to make them understand that there are better meteorites to make jewelry out of. I tried to explain that this meteorite was too rare to make jewelry out of and that there are other meteorites which have been studied and are more plentiful for such an activity. Well, after many hours talking, two trips to Texas and thousands of dollars later, I was able to get them to let this cool and rare Ataxite go free. Many of the slices have gone to major institutions for study and into major private collections. All that is available is in my ebay store and really that is not much! Actually, there is less than 1500 grams available to the collecting community! GO TO EBAY STORE HOME PAGE--- SEARCH GRIFFITH http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From lintonius at earthlink.net Wed Jun 10 04:27:20 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 01:27:20 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] - 535 pound Canyon Diablo relocated References: <8CBB74A7ABF61C3-1760-F85@WEBMAIL-MZ07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8D5E8B2C9BE44204A336C7BB1C19DC71@D190TH71> I'm with you, Doug. The older I get, the less I like change! Very interesting article you posted. Quite revealing. Quite sad. I generally shun gift shops while I'm in National Parks. I'm wishing I would've hung out at Verkamp's though, now. Ironically, I'll be there in 4 days, to take part in the Grand Canyon Star Party. :^) Linton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] - 535 Canyon Diablo relocated Hi Linton, List, How sad! - this smacks of Nininger's closing of his museum at Meteor Crater (Though I am sure the Barringers can identify with it as well). Lowell is the most deserving of institutions, but it looks like the meteorite is now in the part of the visitor center that requires more than a token payment to get in to the complex, whether visitors are interested in seeing the rest the observatory has to offer or not. Now departed is the Verkamps/early Nininger era in Zane Grey's bygone West (whose fiction included references to Meteor Crater). For anyone else like me who gets nostalgic seeing the dying breaths of home brewed cowboy and Indian administration go by the wayside, or the erasure of collective memories tooling down route 66 teaching screaming wide-eyed kids in the back seat learning that travel is so broadening, here's another article related to Linton's post. http://www.santafenewmexican.com/National%20News/Historic-Grand-Canyon-shop-to-close-after-102-years-at-the-rim Trouble with the link? then use this one: http://tinyurl.com/kw8l3e Also, you can't help noticing this part of Linton's linked article: "As to how the Verkamp family ended up with the fragment, Verkamp said, "We don't quite know." " Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Linton Rohr To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 2:10 am Subject: [meteorite-list] - 535 pound Canyon Diablo relocated Nice little specimen moves from Grand Canyon to Lowell Observatory, in Flastaff. http://www.azdailysun.com/articles/2009/06/08/news/20090608_local_197778.txt I wish I had known it was at the Canyon. I've been there numerous times and didn't have a clue it was there Linton. ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mexicodoug at aim.com Wed Jun 10 05:09:33 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 05:09:33 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star In-Reply-To: References: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CBB7C24DBBF244-EFC-631@webmail-dh04.sysops.aol.com> Sterling wrote: "So, no, no ancient ruins "yielded" authenticated meteorites. You see, there was this obscure religious cult that took over and tried, with great success, to destroy all traces of any previous religious worship, temples, shrines, relics, and so forth." His Sterling, List, Rob M and Greg H, I asked if anyone could come up with an example of an authentic meteorite being found in any ancient ruins outside the Americas, after reading this great recap of Camp Verde. This really wasn't motivated by religion; more it was just from this exciting type of meteorite recovery in hand making a bridge from the modern world too the past, and because I have become very skeptical of the author of that article apparently using Lawrence Garvie as his source and others' claims, that meteorites have been found in ancient ruins worldwide. Well, if you can't Google up any meteorites found from ruins outside the Americas, so now it is officially independently confirmed at least to me, thank you!! :-) Let me now, raise this one level further: So far, it would seem that the Americas, and in fact, only North America (please correct me if you recall something found in any South American ruins because I can't despite Campo and the real Incan Empire, etc...). Regarding meteorites being found in ancient ruins ... in fact, outside Brenham, Glorieta, Canyon Diablo, Casas Grandes, and Chihuahua - the list seems20to end, unless you add a few more from some mounds in, fine, again, the US, this time its southeast. It ends so abruptly that it feels like I am abysmally missing something big (No, Willamette was not found in any ruins, and it is in US territory anyway)... Maybe I should have added Namibia and Mongolia, Greenland and Siberia? By no means does this need to be restricted to ancient Mediterranean region and Arabian Peninsula, though they get the most lip service. Are the only places meteorites have been found in ancient ruins, then, in North America, between the latitudes of Florida and Ohio? Somehow this is shocking as well as disconcerting with 20/20 meteoritic vision on the past ... Oh, before I forget to mention this, which is another unrelated general comment about the article: this paragraph was really interesting for comparison with Greg's exciting Ocate, NM iron: "The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that it does not look like the other Canyon Diablo irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, is identical. So the only conclusion we can make is that it is a piece of Canyon Diablo." I wonder what Dr. Moore would say regarding Ocate if he had a chance to look at it? To Rob's table I have added the ranges from Buchwald (1975) to show some variation among other researchers /specimens in testing for the two elements Rob identified as potential outliers for a pairing: Ga and Ge. Also from Buchwald are the old results Wasson (1968) showed for Camp Verde though the experimental uncertainties were not listed in the book. You can see the outliers by Rob's method, suddenly seem to be part of the pack just by comparing things holistically rather than assuming test methodology and specific samples tested to have reproducible uniformity. Elem. Ocate, NM Canyon Diablo Diff. Sigma ----- -------------- --------------- ----- ----- Ni 69.9 +/- 0.5 69.2 +/- 1.7 0.7 < 1 Co 0.466 +/- 0.004 0.468 +/- 0.015 0.002 << 1 Ga 71.9 +/- 0.3 83.8 +/- 3.4 11.9 3.2 ***(VB 74 - 81.8, Camp Verde 78)*** Ge 271 +/- 6 322 +/- 19 51 2.0 ***(VB 283 - 324, Camp Verde 322)*** Ir 2.25 +/- 0.04 2.17 +/- 0.07 0.08 < 1 Au 1.60 +/- 0.03 1.57 +/- 0.11 0.03 << 1 As 15.2 +/- 0.3 12.7 +/- 0.7 2.5 2.5 Cu 119 +/- 11 148 +/- 6 29 1.7 W 0.87 +/- 0.08 0.99 +/- .129 0.12 < 1 Re 0.22 +/- 0.02 0.228 +/- 0.027 0.008 << 1 To be clear, IMO if Ocate is indeed a transported Canyon Diablo,it can only be more interesting, and greatly more especially, if the morphology compares favorably to Camp Verde. Has the Ocate mass photo been posted yet? I hope the Canadian classifiers can share their analytical notes on material and methods, with Wasson, Moore and Co., and appreciate their work with Greg in getting this interesting find done relatively quickly. Best wishes, Doug ---- -Original Message----- From: Sterling K. Webb To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Mexicodoug Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:57 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star Everybody wants a meteorite for their Temple, ya know?? ? ? Sterling K. Webb? --------------------------------------------------------------------? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" ? To: ? Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:40 PM? Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star? ? > Great article, though this paragraph about other "meteors" being found > need editing:? >? > "Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as? > well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce? > Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe,? > N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin? > near Chihuahua, Mexico."? >? > The Incas, of course are not from Chihuahua, but a good fraction of a > world away in Peru ... The author is referring to the Paquim? pueblo > of the probably Anasazi Pueblo type Indians (Like from the US > southwest), though they may have had a tad more of Aztec influence. > And the meteorite is from INSIDE Chihuahua (the state), and NEAR > Nuevas Casas Grandes. It was found far from Chih uahua City actually > much closer to Arizona which is just 93 miles away. Political > boundaries...bah :-)? >? > Does anyone recall what other ancient ruins yielded authenticated > meteorites outside the Americas as claiming by the article they are > found "all around the world in ancient ruins". I am thinking Greece, > Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes to mind. And the Japanese > one was certainly not found in ruins.? >? > Another tear shed today after reading about the other Grand Canyon > fragment...? >? > "In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his? > collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley? > for the first time in nearly 800 yea? > rs."? >? > One (at least me) wonders whether the "800 year buried piece of Canyon > Diablo (Camp Verde piece)" was ever at all "on display" on the Native > American Sinagua or if it was placed to rest with that stone > ceremonially out of sight with respects being rendered specifically > NOT to be displayed, I am not sure how this statement about displaying > could be made in the article with any accuracy, and suppose the author > really got carried away trying to say the Camp Verde piece is on > display in the Verde Vally of AZ...but not sure; thanks for the post!? >? > Best wishes,? > Doug? >? >? > -----Original Mess age-----? > From: Michael Groetz ? > To: Meteorite List ? > Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:37 pm? > Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star? >? >? >? > http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230? >? > The tale of a falling star? > By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter? >? > Tuesday, June 09, 2009? >? > CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work.? >? > A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout? > Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for money? > and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun and? > profit.? >? > In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix? > resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade,? > and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley would? > surren? > der its ancient treasures.? >? > Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of income? > for anyone willing to turn over a few stones.? >? > For this tri From gmhupe at htn.net Wed Jun 10 08:09:02 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:09:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Ocate" and "3-Layer Cake~A Visual Treat" LAST Pieces on eBay - AD Message-ID: Dear List Members, I have loaded on eBay the final specimens of two different and striking meteorites for 10-Day auctions. 1) "Ocate", the New iron from New Mexico has been selling well and only five of 15 pieces remain available. Priced well for a New American iron! 2) NWA 5407, "3-Layer Cake ~ A Visual Treat", an awesome L5 Impact Melt Breccia. This has never been made available publicly yet. I have never seen a melt with three distinct zones of melt in a single slice!! The light area on top looks like icing on top of the cake! All of these can be found under eBay seller, NaturesVault, or by clicking here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Here is a list of the direct links for each individual auction: NWA 5407 "3-Layer Cake ~ A Visual Treat" L5-IMB (So nice, it is beyond description!): 48.6g cs Main Mass http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212043500 43.8g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342771871 40.5g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212044219 40.1g end cut http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212044617 38.2g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342772906 27.4g ps http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342773327 18.5g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212045858 Ocate IAB Iron New Mexico (all slices are about 3mm thick): 910g end cut http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212047356 208.2g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212048022 191g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212048345 162.9g ps http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342776849 162.8g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212049183 cs - complete slice ps - part slice These are the very last I have of each of these beautiful meteorites. If you are interested, you may not want to wait until the last minute to bid, there will not be another chance to get one of these once they are gone! These have all been put up for 10-Day eBay auctions and I will not have too many chances to answer questions while the auctions are running. These will end June 19th. Click here to see all auctions at one click: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Best regards, and "Thank You" for bidding and/or looking! Good Luck! Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From almitt at kconline.com Wed Jun 10 08:29:33 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:29:33 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Lafayette, Indiana Martian Meteorite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Greetings, I currently have a Lafayette Martian Meteorite specimen listed on eBay. This is a fairly large fragment compared to the ultra small specks that were listed in the past. Perhaps 20 or 30 times larger. Only 30 some grams of this ultra rare Martian are available to collectors. A total of 767 grams are in three museums and I don't think any trades have taken place. Lafayette is a rarer Nakhalite type similar to the fall in Nakhla, Egypt that is alleged to have hit a dog. Here is a link to the auction: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet My best to all. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites From almitt at kconline.com Wed Jun 10 08:32:35 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:32:35 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Lafayette, Indiana Martian Meteorite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <61EEE0F76DFA46199A41356C2BC66A68@StarmanPC> Greetings, I currently have a Lafayette Martian Meteorite specimen listed on eBay. This is a fairly large fragment compared to the ultra small specks that were listed in the past. Perhaps 20 or 30 times larger. Only 30 some grams of this ultra rare Martian are available to collectors. A total of 767 grams are in three museums and I don't think any trades have taken place. Lafayette is a rarer Nakhalite type similar to the fall in Nakhla, Egypt that is alleged to have hit a dog. Here is a link to the auction: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet My best to all. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites From GeoZay at aol.com Wed Jun 10 09:09:56 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 09:09:56 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star Message-ID: I haven't been following this thread very closely, but here's a maybe. A few years ago I recall watching a program about the Egyptian Pyramids that mentioned some kind of instrument made from a meteorite. I believe it was used in some kind of religious rites. Would by any chance this fit in with whats being looked for here? GeoZay . >>No meteorite survivors of Greece and Rome are known. However, there are pieces of the "Black Stone" of the Kaa'ba, a meteorite, in Turkey (by a List memeber): http://kauscience.k12.hi.us/~ted/Blackstone/hajar-al-aswad.htm>> **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell?s full line of laptops. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222008777x1201444407/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435 8%3Bv) From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Wed Jun 10 09:59:38 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:59:38 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star In-Reply-To: <8CBB7C24DBBF244-EFC-631@webmail-dh04.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> <8CBB7C24DBBF244-EFC-631@webmail-dh04.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <200906101358.n5ADwgnA012120@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi Doug, Didn't you forget Winona ? See here a quite interesting read: http://sped2work.tripod.com/elden.html My best, Zelimir At 11:09 10/06/2009, Mexicodoug wrote: >Sterling wrote: > >"So, no, no ancient ruins "yielded" >authenticated meteorites. You see, there was >this obscure religious cult that took over and >tried, with great success, to destroy all traces >of any previous religious worship, temples, shrines, relics, and so forth." > >His Sterling, List, Rob M and Greg H, > >I asked if anyone could come up with an example >of an authentic meteorite being found in any >ancient ruins outside the Americas, after >reading this great recap of Camp Verde. This >really wasn't motivated by religion; more it was >just from this exciting type of meteorite >recovery in hand making a bridge from the modern >world too the past, and because I have become >very skeptical of the author of that article >apparently using Lawrence Garvie as his source >and others' claims, that meteorites have been >found in ancient ruins worldwide. Well, if you >can't Google up any meteorites found from ruins >outside the Americas, so now it is officially >independently confirmed at least to me, thank >you!! :-) Let me now, raise this one level further: > >So far, it would seem that the Americas, and in >fact, only North America (please correct me if >you recall something found in any South American >ruins because I can't despite Campo and the real Incan Empire, etc...). > >Regarding meteorites being found in ancient >ruins ... in fact, outside Brenham, Glorieta, >Canyon Diablo, Casas Grandes, and Chihuahua - >the list seems20to end, unless you add a few >more from some mounds in, fine, again, the US, >this time its southeast. It ends so abruptly >that it feels like I am abysmally missing >something big (No, Willamette was not found in >any ruins, and it is in US territory anyway)... >Maybe I should have added Namibia and Mongolia, >Greenland and Siberia? By no means does this >need to be restricted to ancient Mediterranean >region and Arabian Peninsula, though they get the most lip service. > >Are the only places meteorites have been found >in ancient ruins, then, in North America, >between the latitudes of Florida and Ohio? >Somehow this is shocking as well as >disconcerting with 20/20 meteoritic vision on the past ... > >Oh, before I forget to mention this, which is >another unrelated general comment about the >article: this paragraph was really interesting >for comparison with Greg's exciting Ocate, NM iron: > >"The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that >it does not look like the other Canyon Diablo >irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, is >identical. So the only conclusion we can make is >that it is a piece of Canyon Diablo." > >I wonder what Dr. Moore would say regarding >Ocate if he had a chance to look at it? > >To Rob's table I have added the ranges from >Buchwald (1975) to show some variation among >other researchers /specimens in testing for the >two elements Rob identified as potential outliers for a pairing: Ga and >Ge. Also from Buchwald are the old results >Wasson (1968) showed for Camp Verde though the >experimental uncertainties were not listed in >the book. You can see the outliers by Rob's >method, suddenly seem to be part of the pack >just by comparing things holistically rather >than assuming test methodology and specific >samples tested to have reproducible uniformity. > >Elem. Ocate, NM Canyon Diablo Diff. Sigma >----- -------------- --------------- ----- ----- >Ni 69.9 +/- 0.5 69.2 +/- 1.7 0.7 < 1 >Co 0.466 +/- 0.004 0.468 +/- 0.015 0.002 << 1 > >Ga 71.9 +/- 0.3 83.8 +/- 3.4 11.9 3.2 >***(VB 74 - 81.8, Camp Verde 78)*** > >Ge 271 +/- 6 322 +/- 19 51 2.0 >***(VB 283 - 324, Camp Verde 322)*** > >Ir 2.25 +/- 0.04 2.17 +/- 0.07 0.08 < 1 >Au 1.60 +/- 0.03 1.57 +/- 0.11 0.03 << 1 >As 15.2 +/- 0.3 12.7 +/- 0.7 2.5 2.5 >Cu 119 +/- 11 148 +/- 6 29 1.7 >W 0.87 +/- 0.08 0.99 +/- .129 0.12 < 1 >Re 0.22 +/- 0.02 0.228 +/- 0.027 0.008 << 1 > >To be clear, IMO if Ocate is indeed a >transported Canyon Diablo,it can only be more >interesting, and greatly more especially, if the >morphology compares favorably to Camp Verde. Has >the Ocate mass photo been posted yet? I hope the >Canadian classifiers can share their analytical >notes on material and methods, with Wasson, >Moore and Co., and appreciate their work with >Greg in getting this interesting find done relatively quickly. > > >Best wishes, Doug > > > >---- >-Original Message----- >From: Sterling K. Webb >To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Mexicodoug >Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:57 pm >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star > >Everybody wants a meteorite for their Temple, ya know?? >? >? >Sterling K. Webb? >--------------------------------------------------------------------? >----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" ? >To: ? >Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:40 PM? >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star? >? >>Great article, though this paragraph about other "meteors" being >found > need editing:? >>? >>"Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as? >>well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce? >>Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe,? >>N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca >ruin? >>near Chihuahua, Mexico."? >>? >>The Incas, of course are not from Chihuahua, but a good fraction of a > > world away in Peru ... The author is > referring to the Paquim?? pueblo > of the > probably Anasazi Pueblo type Indians (Like from > the US > southwest), though they may have had a > tad more of Aztec influence. > And the > meteorite is from INSIDE Chihuahua (the state), > and NEAR > Nuevas Casas Grandes. It was found far from Chih >uahua City actually > much closer to Arizona >which is just 93 miles away. Political > boundaries...bah :-)? >>? >>Does anyone recall what other ancient ruins yielded authenticated > >meteorites outside the Americas as claiming by >the article they are > found "all around the >world in ancient ruins". I am thinking Greece, > >Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes to >mind. And the Japanese > one was certainly not found in ruins.? >>? >>Another tear shed today after reading about the other Grand Canyon > >fragment...? >>? >>"In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his? >>collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley? >>for the first time in nearly 800 yea? >>rs."? >>? >>One (at least me) wonders whether the "800 year buried piece of >Canyon > Diablo (Camp Verde piece)" was ever at >all "on display" on the Native > American >Sinagua or if it was placed to rest with that >stone > ceremonially out of sight with respects >being rendered specifically > NOT to be >displayed, I am not sure how this statement >about displaying > could be made in the article >with any accuracy, and suppose the author > >really got carried away trying to say the Camp >Verde piece is on > display in the Verde Vally >of AZ...but not sure; thanks for the post!? >>? >>Best wishes,? >>Doug? >>? >>? >>-----Original Mess >age-----? >>From: Michael Groetz ? >>To: Meteorite List ? >>Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:37 pm? >>Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star? >>? >>? >>? >http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230? >>? >>The tale of a falling star? >>By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter? >>? >>Tuesday, June 09, 2009? >>? >>CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work.? >>? >>A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout? >>Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for >money? >>and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun >and? >>profit.? >>? >>In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix? >>resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade,? >>and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley would? >>surren? >>der its ancient treasures.? >>? >>Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of >income? >>for anyone willing to turn over a few stones.? >>? >>For this tri >______________________________________________ >http://www.meteoritecentral.com >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Wed Jun 10 10:20:11 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:20:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] ad : sale of a unique lodranite nwa4448 Message-ID: <416362.1752.qm@web62006.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hi all? and glusgot here is one of the first lodranite found in nwa classified by doctr ted bunch there is 3 years; its nwa 4448? a 57 gr stone very crystalised and unique in grain size and composotion.. enjoy photo http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/ aziz the habibiest Northwest Africa 4448 ?? Algeria ?? Found 2005 ?? Achondrite (lodranite) History and physical description: A 64 g dark brown stone with little fusion crust was found in Western Algeria in 2005 and purchased in Erfoud, Morocco in August 2006. Petrography (T. Bunch and J. Wittke, NAU: A. Irving, UWS): Fine-to medium-grained stone (0.2 to 1.3 mm in dia., mean = 0.83 mm) with recrystallized polygonal and poikilitic textures (host orthopyroxene encloses olivine). Modal contents are (in vol. %): orthopyroxene, 68; olivine, 15; metal, 13; troilite, pyrrhotite, chromite, merrillite, and chlor-apatite, 4.0. Weathering grade is low and shock level is S2.? Geochemistry: Orthopyroxene (Fs11.2Wo2.2, FeO/MnO = 18); olivine (Fa10.2, FeO/MnO = 20); metal, Ni = 5.4 wt %; pyrrhotite, Ni = 2.36 wt %; troilite, Ni = 0.56 wt %; chromite, cr# = 80; chlor-apatite (CaO = 55.6 wt %, P2O 5= 42.4 wt %, Cl = 2.4 wt %); merrillite (CaO = 47.5 wt %, P2O5 = 46.3 wt %, MgO = 3.7 wt % and Na2O = 2.9 wt %). Oxygen isotopes: (D. Rumble, CIW):? a cleaned and metal-free sample was analyzed by laser fluorination. Replicate analyses are, respectively: D17O = -1.3291 and -1.3534, d17O = 0.539 and 0.442, and d18O = 3.551 and 3.413. Classification:? Achondrite (lodranite). Type specimens habibi aziz? imca 6220 box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 10:35:23 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:35:23 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star In-Reply-To: References: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Great post Sterling! Thanks for the links too. :) On 6/10/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > Doug said: >> I am thinking [of] Greece, Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes >> to mind. > > I'm sure Doug named those places because > there were famous meteorites of religious > significance associated with sites there. While > it is true that their whereabouts is presently > unknown [and will likely remain that way), there's > no doubt whatsoever about their existence. > > So, no, no ancient ruins "yielded" authenticated > meteorites. You see, there was this obscure > religious cult that took over and tried, with great > success, to destroy all traces of any previous > religious worship, temples, shrines, relics, and > so forth. > > No meteorite survivors of Greece and Rome are > known. > > However, there are pieces of the "Black Stone" of > the Kaa'ba, a meteorite, in Turkey (by a List memeber): > http://kauscience.k12.hi.us/~ted/Blackstone/hajar-al-aswad.htm > > The meteoritic nature (or non-nature) of a famous > Temple stone is discussed by another List member: > http://imca.repetti.net/articles/IMCA-Insights4.htm > > Evidence in coinage of Temple stones, some of which > were meteorites, can be found here (more List members): > http://www.pibburns.com/catastro/metstamp.htm#classicalcoins > > A discussion of various meteoritic Temple stones can be > found here (Popular ASstronomy, 1936, at ADS): > http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1936PA.....44..514W/0000514.000.html > > Traditionally, the Classical Temple stones were > "nose-cone" shaped. In a word, oriented (if they were > meteorites). There is a fascinating discussion of why > the baetyls that are found are not actually meteorites. > The explanation? Lots of shrines, but not so many > meteorites! > http://www.ancients.info/forums/showthread.php?t=845 > > Everybody wants a meteorite for their Temple, ya know? > > > > Sterling K. Webb > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mexicodoug" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:40 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star > > >> Great article, though this paragraph about other "meteors" being found >> need editing: >> >> "Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as >> well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce >> Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe, >> N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin >> near Chihuahua, Mexico." >> >> The Incas, of course are not from Chihuahua, but a good fraction of a >> world away in Peru ... The author is referring to the Paquim? pueblo >> of the probably Anasazi Pueblo type Indians (Like from the US >> southwest), though they may have had a tad more of Aztec influence. >> And the meteorite is from INSIDE Chihuahua (the state), and NEAR >> Nuevas Casas Grandes. It was found far from Chihuahua City actually >> much closer to Arizona which is just 93 miles away. Political >> boundaries...bah :-) >> >> Does anyone recall what other ancient ruins yielded authenticated >> meteorites outside the Americas as claiming by the article they are >> found "all around the world in ancient ruins". I am thinking Greece, >> Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes to mind. And the Japanese >> one was certainly not found in ruins. >> >> Another tear shed today after reading about the other Grand Canyon >> fragment... >> >> "In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his >> collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley >> for the first time in nearly 800 yea >> rs." >> >> One (at least me) wonders whether the "800 year buried piece of Canyon >> Diablo (Camp Verde piece)" was ever at all "on display" on the Native >> American Sinagua or if it was placed to rest with that stone >> ceremonially out of sight with respects being rendered specifically >> NOT to be displayed, I am not sure how this statement about displaying >> could be made in the article with any accuracy, and suppose the author >> really got carried away trying to say the Camp Verde piece is on >> display in the Verde Vally of AZ...but not sure; thanks for the post! >> >> Best wishes, >> Doug >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Michael Groetz >> To: Meteorite List >> Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:37 pm >> Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star >> >> >> >> http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230 >> >> The tale of a falling star >> By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter >> >> Tuesday, June 09, 2009 >> >> CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work. >> >> A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout >> Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for money >> and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun and >> profit. >> >> In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix >> resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade, >> and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley would >> surren >> der its ancient treasures. >> >> Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of income >> for anyone willing to turn over a few stones. >> >> For this trip he chose a uniquely constructed ruin located on a >> windswept, five-acre mesa above West Clear Creek. >> >> With a view of the entire valley, the outline of its crumbled walls >> looked more like a stockade than a home, a nearly square perimeter of >> rooms surrounding a common courtyard. >> >> Latter-day archaeologists believe the pueblo was built by people of >> the Salado culture, indigenous to the Salt River Valley, instead of >> the native Sinagua whose former homes make up the bulk of the Verde's >> ancient architecture. >> >> A very good day >> >> One day while searching through rubble in the northeast corner of one >> room, Dawson spied a familiar structure -- one that led him to believe >> it was going to be a good day -- a very good day. >> >> The flat slab of sandstone at his feet, he knew to be the cover of a >> burial cyst, just the right size to contain the body of a child, along >> with whatever treasures the family had packed along for the afterlife. >> >> Dawson slid the cover back and began clearing the accumulated dirt and >> debris. Eighteen inches down he uncovered a layer of feathers. As he >> gently scraped away he realized in was a blanket of feathers, wrapped >> about the cherished treasure. >> >> An hour or so later, having cleared out all but the feather blanket >> and its contents, he reached20in and gently lifted the bundle. >> >> It pulled back. >> >> A second more forceful tug and Dawson realized it was not the >> lightweight body of the child he had expected. >> >> With great difficulty, he wrestled the object from its grave, pulled >> back the delicate feather blanket and found himself gazing at a >> two-foot long, one-foot wide, five-inch thick, 135-pound, oddly-shaped >> hunk of rusting rock. >> >> Dawson had an idea of what he was looking at, but it was not until >> several months later, after it was tested, that he knew for sure. The >> object so delicately wrapped and reverently placed in the stone cyst >> was a nickel-iron meteorite, or what meteorite collectors call simply, >> an iron. >> >> The second journey >> >> To date, know one knows how it got there. >> >> We do know that Dawson sold it in 1939 to one of the preeminent >> meteorite researchers and collectors of his day, Harold Harlow >> Nininger, who dubbed it the Camp Verde Meteorite. Convention dictated >> it be named for the closest post office or geological feature. >> >> We also know that in 1959 Nininger sold the meteorite, along with more >> than 700 others, to Arizona State University, where it is currently >> housed in the school's meteorite collection at ASU's Center for >> Meteorite Studies. >> >> What significance the object held to the architecturally unique souls >> who once lived on Wingfield Mesa, we will likely never know. >> Archaeologists have uncovered feather blankets, and several >> meteorites, in archaeological digs. >> Dawson is the only one to have >> found both of them together. >> >> Religious significance >> >> A year after Dawson's find, two pothunters discovered another >> meteorite in a stone cyst, or at least 40 to 50 pounds of fragments >> thereof, in a ruin east of Flagstaff. It became known as the Winona >> Meteorite and is now on display at the museum of Northern Arizona. >> >> Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as >> well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce >> Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe, >> N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca ruin >> near Chihuahua, Mexico. >> >> As Peter Pilles, archaeologist for the Coconino National Forest, has >> observed, when archaeologists are uncertain about an object's use or >> importance, they give it religious significance. >> >> But in the case of the Camp Verde meteorite, with its feather >> wrappings and the fact it was stored in the same manner as human >> remains, there can be little doubt it was held in reverence. >> >> Scientific questions >> >> Lawrence Garvie, director of meteorite collection at ASU, is a >> scientist both by nature and by training. But even he can't help but >> speculate on the meteorite's unusual shape and significance. >> >> "It looks to me more like a child than a leaf or an arrowhead, as some >> have described it. It has a distinctive head and shoulders, and a very >> pronounced backbone that appears to have been rubbed smooth by human >> touch. And when struck it has a beautiful ringing sound," Garvie says. >> >> For scientists like Garvie, and the Center for Meteorites Studies >> founder and former director, Carleton Moore, the meteorite also poses >> some real world questions, not the least of which is where did it fall >> and how did it end up in the ruins of an ancient pueblo. >> >> About 50,000 years ago, a 150-foot diameter, 300,000-ton, iron and >> nickel meteorite crashed into Canyon Diablo outside of modern-day >> Winslow, creating Meteor Crater. The impact vaporized at least half >> and scattered the remaining pieces across a wide area of the Colorado >> Plateau. >> >> "The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that it does not look like >> the other Canyon Diablo irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, >> is identical. So the only conclusion we can make is that it is a piece >> of Canyon Diablo. >> >> "But I have always had my doubts. The other great puzzle is also how >> did it get so far from Meteor Crater. The nomadic people who lived in >> Arizona didn't lug these sorts of things around." >> >> Garvie and Moore both believe it is possible the Camp Verde meteorite >> was a fragment that separated from the main mass of the Canyon Diablo >> meteorite as it broke apart in the atmosphere, landing farther south. >> >> Fact or fiction >> >> As for the fate of the feather blanket, it was parceled out and lost. >> According to a correspondence from Dawson to Nininger, he (Dawson) >> gave away pieces of the blanket=2 >> 0to collectors over the years. >> >> It would seem possible that the entire story of the Camp Verde >> meteorite is pure fiction, dreamt up by Dawson to make an otherwise >> common iron meteorite more valuable, were it not for statements in a >> narrative Nininger later wrote. >> >> Nininger notes he never heard the story of the meteorite's discovery >> until he came to Phoenix to make the purchase. There is also the fact >> that he bought it for what he described as no more than "the price >> usually paid for Canyon Diablo irons ($0.50 per pound)." >> >> Lastly, in April 1940, at Nininger's request, Dawson brought him to >> Camp Verde to see the pueblo and search for feathers or the remains of >> the cyst. >> >> "We hunted the long line of obscure ruins until he reached the >> crumbled walls of a small room, in the corner of which was a slight >> depression and several flat stones protruding from the drifted dust >> and debris. >> >> "Digging out the filling of dust and weeds failed to reveal a shred of >> the feather cloth wrapping, but this was hardly surprising...We >> gathered the flat stones and made several trips down the steep slope >> to the car and back again," Nininger states. >> >> Final journey >> >> The ancient owners of the Camp Verde meteorite may or may not have >> lugged it around in their travels, but Nininger did. For seven years >> following its purchase, he continued to search the planet for what had >> fallen from the heavens. >> >> Then in 1946, he quit the road and esta >> blished the American Meteorite >> Museum on Route 66 near Meteor Crater, where it went on public >> display. >> >> In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his >> collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley >> for the first time in nearly 800 years. >> >> Today the Camp Verde meteorite rests prominently on a table with two >> dozen other irons, many of which came with the Nininger collection, in >> the center of a room containing hundreds of other meteorites from >> across the world and, ultimately, beyond. >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From paul at meteorite.com Wed Jun 10 11:47:51 2009 From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:47:51 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-Times - June Issue Is Now Up Message-ID: <4A2FD5A7.6050502@meteorite.com> Dear List, The June issue of Meteorite-Times if now up. http://www.meteorite-times.com/ Enjoy, Paul and Jim From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Wed Jun 10 17:31:23 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Well okay then Message-ID: <798653.11443.qm@web110609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Marc, It is just that every newspaper article and every interview usually touches on the fact that collectors get all the material and science is left in the dark. I am proving the point that commercial and private collectors actually provide the bulk of the material to science. We have likely recovered over 20 stones from this fall, thankfully before any precipitation, so almost all stones (except the bird crap pieces and the dog-slobber stone) are pristine. I rapidly donated a piece I found to TCU, am working on getting some more into another major museum collecdti --- On Wed, 3/4/09, Fries, Marc D wrote: From: Fries, Marc D Subject: [meteorite-list] Well okay then To: "Meteorite List" Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 9:59 AM Howdy all I?ve received a few ...em... ?spirited? responses to my last email that tell me that it didn?t exactly read the way I intended. I wasn?t trying to be a hero because I bought a plane ticket, I was trying to say that traveling on ?your own dime? isn?t what scientists are used to doing. Someone had made the comment that there were no scientists to be seen at West, and I agree that is ridiculous. Scientists travel to Antarctica every year to collect meteorites, but no one could be bothered to fly to Austin!? How many people who spend their lives studying meteorites just passed up a chance to see an actual, fresh strewn field?? (not to mention the kolaches) Funny thing is, I was actually agreeing with some of the nasty-grams I?ve received. Sounds like I touched a nerve. Can I suggest that y?all spare me the wrath, and direct it instead at the scientists who weren?t actually there? Cheers, MDF ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From majesticmeteorites at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 18:35:53 2009 From: majesticmeteorites at gmail.com (Whitney Riner) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:35:53 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Win a piece of moon rock Message-ID: New Scientist is having a contest to give away a lunar meteorite in celebration of the 40th anniversary of Apollo: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17213-competition-win-a-piece-of-moon-rock (1.4g in two pieces due to additional authentication--apparently detailed in the June 20 issue) -Whitney From drtanuki at yahoo.com Wed Jun 10 18:49:14 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] test only Message-ID: <814300.65768.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com> test From mexicodoug at aim.com Wed Jun 10 19:37:02 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:37:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star In-Reply-To: <200906101358.n5ADwgnA012120@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> References: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com><8CBB7C24DBBF244-EFC-631@webmail-dh04.sysops.aol.com> <200906101358.n5ADwgnA012120@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <8CBB83B7C6A7BEE-F34-18C7@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> Zelimir wrote: "Didn't you forget Winona ?" Hello Zelimir !!!!!! Thanks, You have a great sense of humor :-) Yes, everyone from the Rolling Stones to Disney is now reminding me, "DON'T FORGET WINONA!" How careless of me, in honor the Route 66, and the Mother Road to ancient ruins with meteorites, like the song, Winona may be out of sequence, but not forgotten..., but the crown jewel of ancient ruins as shown in Zelimir's great link... http://sped2work.tripod.com/elden.html Hopefully the road to Ensisheim is easier than whats left of '66, Kind wishes, Doug PS: If you don't know the song, get hip with this timely tip, if you ever plan to Motor West to go meteorite hunting. Nininger was right.. My favorite rendition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT1rPSGeJ38 Here is a picture of the old bridge at Winona when "Don't forget Winona" is sung: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbCdiWZP3Wk And here are three more: for the oldersters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBmr5EuwCEQ youngersters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tpjKYe0Big and anyone whole likes Spanish Argentine girls: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plvMedxlc-A PPS, In honor of the town of Winona (I've already sent the Nininger correction to the webmaster abou it being Nininger's and not Barringer's museum) here is a fine history of the settement that gave the legendary meteorite its name. http://www.legendsofamerica.com/AZ-BeyondWinslow.html =0 A -----Original Message----- From: Zelimir Gabelica To: Mexicodoug ; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 8:59 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star Hi Doug,? ? Didn't you forget Winona ?? ? See here a quite interesting read:? ? http://sped2work.tripod.com/elden.html? ? My best,? ? Zelimir? ? At 11:09 10/06/2009, Mexicodoug wrote:? >Sterling wrote:? >? >"So, no, no ancient ruins "yielded" >authenticated meteorites. You see, there was >this obscure religious cult that took over and >tried, with great success, to destroy all traces >of any previous religious worship, temples, shrines, relics, and so forth."? >? >His Sterling, List, Rob M and Greg H,? >? >I asked if anyone could come up with an example >of an authentic meteorite being found in any >ancient ruins outside the Americas, after >reading this great recap of Camp Verde. This >really wasn't motivated by religion; more it was >just from this exciting type of meteorite >recovery in hand making a bridge from the modern >world too the past, and because I have become >very skeptical of the author of that article >apparently using Lawrence Garvie as his source >and others' claims, that meteorites have been >found in ancient ruins worldwide. Well, if y ou >can't Google up any meteorites found from ruins >outside the Americas, so now it is officially >independently confirmed at least to me, thank >you!! :-) Let me now, raise this one level further:? >? >So far, it would seem that the Americas, and in >fact, only North America (please correct me if >you recall something found in any South American >ruins because I can't despite Campo and the real Incan Empire, etc...).? >? >Regarding meteorites being found in ancient >ruins ... in fact, outside Brenham, Glorieta, >Canyon Diablo, Casas Grandes, and Chihuahua - >the list seems20to end, unless you add a few >more from some mounds in, fine, again, the US, >this time its southeast. It ends so abruptly >that it feels like I am abysmally missing >something big (No, Willamette was not found in >any ruins, and it is in US territory anyway)... >Maybe I should have added Namibia and Mongolia, >Greenland and Siberia? By no means does this >need to be restricted to ancient Mediterranean >region and Arabian Peninsula, though they get the most lip service.? >? >Are the only places meteorites have been found >in ancient ruins, then, in North America, >between the latitudes of Florida and Ohio? >Somehow this is shocking as well as >disconcerting with 20/20 meteoritic vision on the past ...? >? >Oh, before I forget to mention this, which is >another unrelated general comment about the >article:=2 0this paragraph was really interesting >for comparison with Greg's exciting Ocate, NM iron:? >? >"The interesting thing about Camp Verde is that >it does not look like the other Canyon Diablo >irons," Moore says. "Its chemistry, however, is >identical. So the only conclusion we can make is >that it is a piece of Canyon Diablo."? >? >I wonder what Dr. Moore would say regarding >Ocate if he had a chance to look at it?? >? >To Rob's table I have added the ranges from >Buchwald (1975) to show some variation among >other researchers /specimens in testing for the >two elements Rob identified as potential outliers for a pairing: Ga and? >Ge. Also from Buchwald are the old results >Wasson (1968) showed for Camp Verde though the >experimental uncertainties were not listed in >the book. You can see the outliers by Rob's >method, suddenly seem to be part of the pack >just by comparing things holistically rather >than assuming test methodology and specific >samples tested to have reproducible uniformity.? >? >Elem. Ocate, NM Canyon Diablo Diff. Sigma? >----- -------------- --------------- ----- -----? >Ni 69.9 +/- 0.5 69.2 +/- 1.7 0.7 < 1? >Co 0.466 +/- 0.004 0.468 +/- 0.015 0.002 << 1? >? >Ga 71.9 +/- 0.3 83.8 +/- 3.4 11.9 3.2? >***(VB 74 - 81.8, Camp Verde 78)***? >? >Ge 271 +/- 6 322 +/- 19 51 2.0? >***(VB 283 - 324, Camp Verde 322)*** >? >Ir 2.25 +/- 0.04 2.17 +/- 0.07 0.08 < 1? >Au 1.60 +/- 0.03 1.57 +/- 0.11 0.03 << 1? >As 15.2 +/- 0.3 12.7 +/- 0.7 2.5 2.5? >Cu 119 +/- 11 148 +/- 6 29 1.7? >W 0.87 +/- 0.08 0.99 +/- .129 0.12 < 1? >Re 0.22 +/- 0.02 0.228 +/- 0.027 0.008 << 1? >? >To be clear, IMO if Ocate is indeed a >transported Canyon Diablo,it can only be more >interesting, and greatly more especially, if the >morphology compares favorably to Camp Verde. Has >the Ocate mass photo been posted yet? I hope the >Canadian classifiers can share their analytical >notes on material and methods, with Wasson, >Moore and Co., and appreciate their work with >Greg in getting this interesting find done relatively quickly.? >? >? >Best wishes, Doug? >? >? >? >----? >-Original Message-----? >From: Sterling K. Webb ? >To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Mexicodoug ? >Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:57 pm? >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star? >? >Everybody wants a meteorite for their Temple, ya know??? >?? >?? >Sterling K. Webb?? >--------------------------------------------------------------------?? >----- Original Message ----- From: "Mexicodoug" ?? >To: ?? >Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:40 PM?? >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star?? >?? >>Great article, though this paragraph about other "meteors" being? >found > need editing:?? >>?? >>"Other meteors have been located in ancient ruins of the Americas, as?? >>well as around the world, ranging in size from the three ounce?? >>Pojoaque meteorite, found in an ancient pottery bowl near Santa Fe,?? >>N.M., to the 3,407-pound Casas Grandes iron discovered in an Inca? >ruin?? >>near Chihuahua, Mexico."?? >>?? >>The Incas, of course are not from Chihuahua, but a good fraction of a? > > world away in Peru ... The author is > referring to the Paquim?? pueblo > of the > probably Anasazi Pueblo type Indians (Like from > the US > southwest), though they may have had a > tad more of Aztec influence. > And the > meteorite is from INSIDE Chihuahua (the state), > and NEAR > Nuevas Casas Grandes. It was found far from Chih? >uahua City actually > much closer to Arizona >which is just 93 miles away. Political > boundaries...bah :-)?? >>?? >>Does anyone recall what other ancient ruins yielded authenticated >? >meteorites outside the Americas as claiming by >the article they are > found "all around the >world in ancient ruins". I am thinking Greece, > >Cyprus and Turkey, but no meteorite comes to >mind. And the Japanese > one was certainly not found in ruins.C3? >>?? >>Another tear shed today after reading about the other Grand Canyon >? >fragment...?? >>?? >>"In 1953, after America abandoned Route 66, Nininger moved his?? >>collection to Sedona, where it was put on display in the Verde Valley?? >>for the first time in nearly 800 yea?? >>rs."?? >>?? >>One (at least me) wonders whether the "800 year buried piece of? >Canyon > Diablo (Camp Verde piece)" was ever at >all "on display" on the Native > American >Sinagua or if it was placed to rest with that >stone > ceremonially out of sight with respects >being rendered specifically > NOT to be >displayed, I am not sure how this statement >about displaying > could be made in the article >with any accuracy, and suppose the author > >really got carried away trying to say the Camp >Verde piece is on > display in the Verde Vally >of AZ...but not sure; thanks for the post!?? >>?? >>Best wishes,?? >>Doug?? >>?? >>?? >>-----Original Mess? >age-----?? >>From: Michael Groetz ?? >>To: Meteorite List ?? >>Sent: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 8:37 pm?? >>Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star?? >>?? >>?? >>?? >http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1&articleID=31230 ?? >>?? >>The tale of a falling star?? >>By Steve Ayers, Staff Reporter?? >>?? >>Tuesday, June 09, 2009?? >>?? >>CAMP VERDE - George Dawson was no stranger to hard work.?? >>?? >>A seasoned construction hand, he traveled extensively throughout?? >>Central America and the American southwest, moving mountains for? >money?? >>and, when time allowed, doing some digging on his own for both fun? >and?? >>profit.?? >>?? >>In the spring of 1927, Dawson found himself between jobs. A Phoenix?? >>resident, he loaded his truck with supplies and tools of his trade,?? >>and headed north, hoping the fertile ground of the Verde Valley would?? >>surren?? >>der its ancient treasures.?? >>?? >>Pothunters like Dawson knew the valley to be a steady source of? >income?? >>for anyone willing to turn over a few stones.?? >>?? >>For this tri? >______________________________________________? >http://www.meteoritecentral.com? >Meteorite-list mailing list? >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? ? Prof. Zelimir Gabelica? Universit? de Haute Alsace? ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,? 3, Rue A. Werner,? F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France? Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94? Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jun 10 20:55:58 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:55:58 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] The tale of a falling star In-Reply-To: <8CBB83B7C6A7BEE-F34-18C7@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com><8CBB7C24DBBF244-EFC-631@webmail-dh04.sysops.aol.com> <200906101358.n5ADwgnA012120@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> <8CBB83B7C6A7BEE-F34-18C7@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:37:02 -0400, you wrote: >Yes, everyone from the Rolling Stones to Disney is now reminding me, > >"DON'T FORGET WINONA!" > >How careless of me, in honor the Route 66, and the Mother Road to >ancient ruins with meteorites, like the song, Winona may be out of >sequence, but not forgotten..., but the crown jewel of ancient ruins as >shown in Zelimir's great link... Uh, Winona is mentioned in the original article that was the starter of this thread. From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jun 10 20:59:17 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:59:17 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] speaking of Winona In-Reply-To: <8CBB83B7C6A7BEE-F34-18C7@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBB79459261B40-F7C-477@WEBMAIL-DY20.sysops.aol.com><8CBB7C24DBBF244-EFC-631@webmail-dh04.sysops.aol.com> <200906101358.n5ADwgnA012120@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> <8CBB83B7C6A7BEE-F34-18C7@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9hl035d8laq26ov6e423k5a56vvv168he0@4ax.com> http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2009/06/09_betelim.shtml Off topic, but this would be an amazing thing to see. Just think what it would be to happen to be alive at the moment that naked-eye star visible for all of human history and prehistory died-- and erased one of the zodiacal constellations along with it. From drtanuki at yahoo.com Wed Jun 10 20:08:45 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:08:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Incoming Space Rocks now US Military Secret Message-ID: <452915.1872.qm@web53112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List, An article about the US military`s "Classified Secret" incoming space rocks has been published. http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ Dirk Ross...Tokyo From mlblood at cox.net Wed Jun 10 20:14:49 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:14:49 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] LDG clarification In-Reply-To: <8CBB83B7C6A7BEE-F34-18C7@FWM-D05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi all, A few years ago it came out they had discovered meteoritic Material in some of the Libyan Desert Glass (the specimens with Dark streaking). It am trying do discover the spelling of the name By which it was called: SCHYRIN (Sp? ) Scherlyn (Sp?) what? Anyone know the spelling? (I would think some of the others On the list would also be interested). Thanks, Michael From mlblood at cox.net Wed Jun 10 21:44:07 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:44:07 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] LDG Sclieren spelling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to Bob & Jeff: "Schlieren" it is. Thanks, Michael > From: Michael Blood > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:14:49 -0700 > To: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] LDG clarification > > Hi all, > A few years ago it came out they had discovered meteoritic > Material in some of the Libyan Desert Glass (the specimens with > Dark streaking). It am trying do discover the spelling of the name > By which it was called: SCHYRIN (Sp? ) Scherlyn (Sp?) what? > Anyone know the spelling? (I would think some of the others > On the list would also be interested). > Thanks, Michael > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From Impactika at aol.com Wed Jun 10 22:27:34 2009 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:27:34 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] LDG Schlieren spelling Message-ID: OK, so the word is schlieren. Defined by Wikipedia as: Schlieren (from German; singular "Schliere") are optical inhomogeneities in transparent material not visible to the human eye. Schlieren physics developed out of the need to produce high-quality lenses void of these inhomogeneities. These inhomogeneities are localized differences in optical path length that cause light deviation. This light deviation is converted to shadow in a schlieren system. But,............. I don't see how that relates to meteoritic dust imbedded in Libyan Desert Glass. Anybody?? Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 6/10/2009 7:44:34 PM Mountain Daylight Time, mlblood at cox.net writes: Thanks to Bob & Jeff: "Schlieren" it is. Thanks, Michael > From: Michael Blood > Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:14:49 -0700 > To: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] LDG clarification > > Hi all, > A few years ago it came out they had discovered meteoritic > Material in some of the Libyan Desert Glass (the specimens with > Dark streaking). It am trying do discover the spelling of the name > By which it was called: SCHYRIN (Sp? ) Scherlyn (Sp?) what? > Anyone know the spelling? (I would think some of the others > On the list would also be interested). > Thanks, Michael **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell?s full line of laptops. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222008777x1201444407/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435 8%3Bv) From meteoritekid at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 22:30:15 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:30:15 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: LDG Sclieren spelling In-Reply-To: <93aaac890906101900l1f73a0c5i8111f6068f30d236@mail.gmail.com> References: <93aaac890906101900l1f73a0c5i8111f6068f30d236@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890906101930s1bd845c0w7a12b4d2729f8791@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jason Utas Date: Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] LDG Sclieren spelling To: Michael Blood Hello Michael, That term applies to the "flow-lines" in all tektite material in general: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V66-4HW80JN-P&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d0f28fcf67ca9b3fda0bae5bb69ec35f http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VDB-3VW7S1X-5&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=78afbbfe49682a49c9b8accc306504dc And not necessarily to the meteoric material contained in LDG; schlieren generally applies to the visible differences in density apparent in layers and ripples in impact glasses, as well as other substances. ?In fact, in tektites, this usually applies to areas richer in SiO2 - not meteoric material. Regards, Jason On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > Thanks to Bob & Jeff: "Schlieren" it is. > ? ? ? ?Thanks, Michael > > >> From: Michael Blood >> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:14:49 -0700 >> To: Meteorite List >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] LDG clarification >> >> Hi all, >> ? ? ? ? A few years ago it came out they had discovered meteoritic >> Material in some of the Libyan Desert Glass (the specimens with >> Dark streaking). It am trying do discover the spelling of the name >> By which it was called: SCHYRIN ?(Sp? ) Scherlyn (Sp?) what? >> ? ? ? ? Anyone know the spelling? (I would think some of the others >> On the list would also be interested). >> ? ? ? ? Thanks, Michael >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From Impactika at aol.com Wed Jun 10 22:33:03 2009 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:33:03 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Well okay then Message-ID: Let's be fair, One scientist did go to West and more than once: Dr. Art Ehlmann from TCU. Anne M. Black http://www.impactika.com/ IMPACTIKA at aol.com Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. http://www.imca.cc/ In a message dated 6/10/2009 3:31:40 PM Mountain Daylight Time, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: Marc, It is just that every newspaper article and every interview usually touches on the fact that collectors get all the material and science is left in the dark. I am proving the point that commercial and private collectors actually provide the bulk of the material to science. We have likely recovered over 20 stones from this fall, thankfully before any precipitation, so almost all stones (except the bird crap pieces and the dog-slobber stone) are pristine. I rapidly donated a piece I found to TCU, am working on getting some more into another major museum collecdti --- On Wed, 3/4/09, Fries, Marc D wrote: From: Fries, Marc D Subject: [meteorite-list] Well okay then To: "Meteorite List" Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 9:59 AM Howdy all I?ve received a few ...em... ?spirited? responses to my last email that tell me that it didn?t exactly read the way I intended. I wasn?t trying to be a hero because I bought a plane ticket, I was trying to say that traveling on ?your own dime? isn?t what scientists are used to doing. Someone had made the comment that there were no scientists to be seen at West, and I agree that is ridiculous. Scientists travel to Antarctica every year to collect meteorites, but no one could be bothered to fly to Austin!? How many people who spend their lives studying meteorites just passed up a chance to see an actual, fresh strewn field?? (not to mention the kolaches) Funny thing is, I was actually agreeing with some of the nasty-grams I?ve received. Sounds like I touched a nerve. Can I suggest that y?all spare me the wrath, and direct it instead at the scientists who weren?t actually there? Cheers, MDF **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop Dell?s full line of laptops. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222008777x1201444407/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435 8%3Bv) From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Wed Jun 10 22:39:54 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:39:54 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Well okay then In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This was some old email that appeared out of nowhere. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jun 10, 2009, at 7:33 PM, Impactika at aol.com wrote: > Let's be fair, > One scientist did go to West and more than once: Dr. Art Ehlmann > from TCU. > > Anne M. Black > http://www.impactika.com/ > IMPACTIKA at aol.com > Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. > http://www.imca.cc/ > > > > In a message dated 6/10/2009 3:31:40 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > meteoriteguy at yahoo.com writes: > Marc, > It is just that every newspaper article and every interview usually > touches > on the fact that collectors get all the material and science is left > in the > dark. > I am proving the point that commercial and private collectors actually > provide the bulk of the material to science. We have likely > recovered over 20 > stones from this fall, thankfully before any precipitation, so > almost all > stones (except the bird crap pieces and the dog-slobber stone) are > pristine. > I rapidly donated a piece I found to TCU, am working on getting some > more > into another major museum collecdti > > --- On Wed, 3/4/09, Fries, Marc D wrote: > > From: Fries, Marc D > Subject: [meteorite-list] Well okay then > To: "Meteorite List" > Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 9:59 AM > Howdy all > > I?ve received a few ...em... ?spirited? > responses to my last email that > tell me that it didn?t exactly read the way I > intended. I wasn?t trying to > be a hero because I bought a plane ticket, I was trying to > say that > traveling on ?your own dime? isn?t what scientists are > used to doing. > Someone had made the comment that there were no scientists > to be seen at > West, and I agree that is ridiculous. Scientists > travel to Antarctica every > year to collect meteorites, but no one could be bothered to > fly to Austin!? > How many people who spend their lives studying meteorites > just passed up a > chance to see an actual, fresh strewn field?? (not to > mention the kolaches) > Funny thing is, I was actually agreeing with some of the > nasty-grams I?ve > received. > Sounds like I touched a nerve. Can I > suggest that y?all spare me the > wrath, and direct it instead at the scientists who weren?t > actually there? > > Cheers, > MDF > **************Dell Inspiron 15 Laptop: Now in 6 vibrant colors! Shop > Dell?s > full line of laptops. > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222008777x1201444407/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566094%3B3786435 > 8%3Bv) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 10 22:57:01 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:57:01 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: LDG Sclieren spelling References: <93aaac890906101900l1f73a0c5i8111f6068f30d236@mail.gmail.com> <93aaac890906101930s1bd845c0w7a12b4d2729f8791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <359A146EA5FC4CA881B2823AE4248C5D@ATARIENGINE2> The Schlieren effect is produced by variations in the index of refraction in a material, often associated with differences in density if the material is homogeneous in composition but can be produced by changes in composition as well, or by temperature effects or pressure or... Schlieren photography uses the Schlieren effect to render the differences in refraction visible. Here's some nice photography and movies of it: http://sciencehack.com/videos/view/_gKNhGbsEf4 Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jason Utas" To: "Impactika" ; "Meteorite-list" Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 9:30 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: LDG Sclieren spelling ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jason Utas Date: Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] LDG Sclieren spelling To: Michael Blood Hello Michael, That term applies to the "flow-lines" in all tektite material in general: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V66-4HW80JN-P&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d0f28fcf67ca9b3fda0bae5bb69ec35f http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6VDB-3VW7S1X-5&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=78afbbfe49682a49c9b8accc306504dc And not necessarily to the meteoric material contained in LDG; schlieren generally applies to the visible differences in density apparent in layers and ripples in impact glasses, as well as other substances. In fact, in tektites, this usually applies to areas richer in SiO2 - not meteoric material. Regards, Jason On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 6:44 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > Thanks to Bob & Jeff: "Schlieren" it is. > Thanks, Michael > > >> From: Michael Blood >> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:14:49 -0700 >> To: Meteorite List >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] LDG clarification >> >> Hi all, >> A few years ago it came out they had discovered meteoritic >> Material in some of the Libyan Desert Glass (the specimens with >> Dark streaking). It am trying do discover the spelling of the name >> By which it was called: SCHYRIN (Sp? ) Scherlyn (Sp?) what? >> Anyone know the spelling? (I would think some of the others >> On the list would also be interested). >> Thanks, Michael >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 11 01:23:11 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 00:23:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] A transient lunar phenomenon In-Reply-To: <93aaac890906101930s1bd845c0w7a12b4d2729f8791@mail.gmail.com> References: <93aaac890906101900l1f73a0c5i8111f6068f30d236@mail.gmail.com> <93aaac890906101930s1bd845c0w7a12b4d2729f8791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5351355jfhjg8203o8tq55f1qb20qh2hel@4ax.com> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/10/kaguya-impact/ From gredfern at earthlink.net Wed Jun 10 08:02:11 2009 From: gredfern at earthlink.net (Greg Redfern) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:02:11 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrocast.tv Episode 15 Message-ID: All, Please enjoy another great episode. ASTROCAST http://astrocast.tv/ All the best, Greg Greg Redfern NASA JPL Solar System Ambassador http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html WHAT'S UP?: THE SPACE PLACE http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=600113&nid=421 ASTROCAST http://astrocast.tv/ From edwinthompson at comcast.net Thu Jun 11 00:40:42 2009 From: edwinthompson at comcast.net (edwinthompson at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 04:40:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - thin sections of Ash Creek for sale Message-ID: <1988476452.2656191244695242090.JavaMail.root@sz0040a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hi list members. We are selling beautiful thin sections of Ash Creek. These were made from a spectacular stone found by Patrick and display wonderful breccia. The sections have a large surface area. These are double polished, covered slides and are top quality. Only a few available now but more to come. Please contact us off list at etmeteorites at hotmail.com Cheers, Edwin From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jun 11 05:10:47 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 11 Jun 2009 09:10:47 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Schlieren ... not only in LDG and tektites but also Message-ID: .. in IVB irons! An excerpt from Buchwald (p. 463): "Etched sections [of Chinga] show the s c h l i e r e n bands characteristic of so many group IVB ataxites. They are-on undeformed specimens-straight and parallel, 1-10 mm wide and taper out in irregular ways. There are generally only two 'sets', one having high, the other low reflectivity, but they are of the same chemical composition." Reference: BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Volume 2, pp. 461-464. Best from very windy Southern Germany, Bernd From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Thu Jun 11 06:21:13 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 06:21:13 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 11, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_11_2009.html __________________________ **************Dell Deals: Don?t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops starting at $449. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B i) From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 11 09:41:27 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 06:41:27 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Win a piece of moon rock Message-ID: Sent my comment in but but now noticed someone else sent a similar comment before me. Rats!! Carl _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 From cmb62 at columbus.rr.com Thu Jun 11 12:49:39 2009 From: cmb62 at columbus.rr.com (Charley) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:49:39 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Future Planetary Collision? Message-ID: <9FEFC38C25074C8DAD14C905C798209F@HAL1> Hi List, Maybe a bit off topic although lots of meteoroids would be created. A French researcher says we may have a collision with Venus or Mars in 3.5 billion years. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2009-06/11/content_8271159.htm Best regards, Charley "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's try elephants !" Hannibal From eric at meteoritesusa.com Thu Jun 11 13:25:00 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:25:00 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? Message-ID: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> Hi all, This just in... Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. ------------------------------------------ "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." Meteor hits boy on way to school Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on my hand.? The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but Blank knew something special had happened to him. ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from the heat as it went by me,? he said. After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school with him. ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html ------------------------------------------- Another site reports: SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. SOURCE: http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news-ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html -------------------------------------------- So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? Anyone else have any info? -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From bristolia at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 13:25:17 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Distribution of Meteorite Finds in Texas ??? Message-ID: <242852.34186.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Friends, Does anyone know where I might data concerning where meteorites have been found in Texas? Are there any maps showing the location of meteorite finds in Texas? I am curious about the relationship between where meteorites have been found in Texas and regional geomorphic surfaces within Texas. Best Regards, Paul Paul V. Heinrich From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 13:31:52 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: One cent ebay auctions ending in hours Message-ID: <303079.30556.qm@web110608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> http://www.meteorite.com/farmer/ I have more than 50 meteorites ending in hours. All meteorites on ebay have no reserve, started at 1 cent! Where they end, they sell. Most are still at one cent. Michael Farmer From eric at meteoritesusa.com Thu Jun 11 13:34:06 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:34:06 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? In-Reply-To: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <4A31400E.4000703@meteoritesusa.com> Sorry instead of "And what is the stone that hit them?" I didn't actually mean them in the plural sense... I didn't know whether to say her or him. So don't yell at me for thinking this is a meteorite or that there are multiple "victims". ;) Sorry for the confusion... Meteorites USA wrote: > Hi all, > > This just in... > > Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. > > ------------------------------------------ > > "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing > 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." > > Meteor hits boy on way to school > Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET > > ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, > and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche > Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on > my hand.? > > The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but > Blank knew something special had happened to him. > > ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from > the heat as it went by me,? he said. > > After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a > sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from > his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school > with him. > > ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His > parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. > > Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested > the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble > is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. > > Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. > > SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html > > ------------------------------------------- > > Another site reports: > > SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky > > SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. > A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the > sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white > cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm > cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it > and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? > Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. > > SOURCE: > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news-ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > > > -------------------------------------------- > > So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? > > Anyone else have any info? > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 13:35:17 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:35:17 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Distribution of Meteorite Finds in Texas ??? In-Reply-To: <242852.34186.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <242852.34186.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, Try using the NASA WorldWind program with the Met Soc Bulletin plug-in. It will graphically plot the location of all meteorite falls and finds (outside of Antarctica) - http://worldwind.arc.nasa.gov/ http://worldwindcentral.com/wiki/Add-on:Meteoritical_Bulletin Best regards, MikeG On 6/11/09, Paul wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > Does anyone know where I might data concerning where > meteorites have been found in Texas? Are there any maps > showing the location of meteorite finds in Texas? > > I am curious about the relationship between where > meteorites have been found in Texas and regional > geomorphic surfaces within Texas. > > Best Regards, > > Paul > > Paul V. Heinrich > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From damoclid at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 13:40:39 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Distribution of Meteorite Finds in Texas ??? Message-ID: <976636.12004.qm@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Paul, I downloaded all of the meteorite entries from the Meteoritical Society database as a Google Earth file. The file has all the location entries for all of those that have this information in the entry, but it does exclude all Antarctic finds. Of course all the caveats associated with the locations for each meteorite entry still apply... Its actually a pretty neat output if you haven't used it yet... If you use Google Earth, the file can be found at: http://www.fullmoonphotography.net/images/Meteorites/METSOC_20090601_non-Antarctic.kmz You may have a problem with wrap, so you can try here: http://tinyurl.com/kr2a7x Hope this helps. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net --- On Thu, 6/11/09, Paul wrote: > From: Paul > Subject: [meteorite-list] Distribution of Meteorite Finds in Texas ??? > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 10:25 AM > > Dear Friends, > > Does anyone know where I might data concerning where > meteorites have been found in Texas? Are there any maps > showing the location of meteorite finds in Texas? > > I am curious about the relationship between where > meteorites have been found in Texas and regional > geomorphic surfaces within Texas. > > Best Regards, > > Paul > > Paul V. Heinrich > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From GeoZay at aol.com Thu Jun 11 14:52:03 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:52:03 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? Message-ID: I'm not sure where to start with this one. It could be a meteorite that hit the childs hand, but with an embellished story to go with it. Or a pebble thrown at the child by either another person or perhaps a passing vehicle, but still accompanied with an embellished story. The boy saw a "white Light" and soon afterwards "felt something on his hand. " Well this could be a case of a person describing what they think should have happen if it was a meteorite that hit them. But this is where they trip themselves up. If it was glowing to the point it burnt him as it went by, I doubt the boy would be alive to tell this tale. Either by the large boulder sized rock that it would have to be in order to be glowing on ground impact or the concussion when it hit the ground...apparently right next to him. then he states that the pebble left a sizable crater to which he stared at the glowing rock. Then afterwards doused it with his ice tea and took it to school with him. I also find it interesting that there's no report of any sonic boom...which I'm sure there would have been one for a large rock that glowed to the ground. But since he says it was a pebble, No sonic boom reports would be normal. Me thinks this kid suckered in a lot of folks with some wishful thinking. Perhaps he could do better selling bridges? GeoZay ---------------------------------- >>Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." Meteor hits boy on way to school Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on my hand.? The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but Blank knew something special had happened to him. ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from the heat as it went by me,? he said. After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school with him. ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic.<< **************Dell Deals: Don?t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops starting at $449. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B i) From mqfowler at mac.com Thu Jun 11 15:00:41 2009 From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:00:41 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? Message-ID: <3E3A9B23-BAB2-4372-86D6-3C0476805DAA@mac.com> Not sure if deserves a comment, but if you look at the pea sized object in the photo, and try to imagine how fast it would fall before reaching terminal velocity (perhaps about 25 or 30 mph) you would quickly realize that it could not make a crater, let alone be blazing firery trail. Mike Fowler Chicago > > Hi all, > > This just in... > > Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. > > ------------------------------------------ > > "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing > 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." > > Meteor hits boy on way to school > Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET > > ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, > and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche > Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on > my hand.? > > The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but > Blank knew something special had happened to him. > > ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from > the > heat as it went by me,? he said. > > After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a > sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from > his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school > with him. > > ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His > parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. > > Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested > the > round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble is > from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. > > Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. > > SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html > > ------------------------------------------- > > Another site reports: > > SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky > > SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. > A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the > sky. > The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white cone > of > light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm cut in her > hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it and took > it > with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? Could it be a > meteorite? Experts will have to explain. > > SOURCE: > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news-ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > > -------------------------------------------- > > So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? > > Anyone else have any info? > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > > ? Previous message: [meteorite-list] Future Planetary Collision? > ? Next message: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? > Boy? > ? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jun 11 15:36:14 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 11 Jun 2009 19:36:14 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? Message-ID: Hi List, We've already discussed this on our German Met.List. and I can tell you it is one of those Yellow Press canards but, unfortunately, quite a few people will fall for such nonsense. Mike Fowler is right on track with his comments and the absolute summit of nonsense is probably this: "The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand." Oh well, . Best wishes, Bernd From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 11 17:10:13 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:10:13 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Military intelligence-- still an oxymoron. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.space.com/news/090610-military-fireballs.html Military Hush-Up: Incoming Space Rocks Now Classified By Leonard David SPACE.com's Space Insider Columnist posted: 10 June 2009 05:35 pm ET For 15 years, scientists have benefited from data gleaned by U.S. classified satellites of natural fireball events in Earth's atmosphere ? but no longer. A recent U.S. military policy decision now explicitly states that observations by hush-hush government spacecraft of incoming bolides and fireballs are classified secret and are not to be released, SPACE.com has learned. The satellites' main objectives include detecting nuclear bomb tests, and their characterizations of asteroids and lesser meteoroids as they crash through the atmosphere has been a byproduct data bonanza for scientists. The upshot: Space rocks that explode in the atmosphere are now classified. "It's baffling to us why this would suddenly change," said one scientist familiar with the work. "It's unfortunate because there was this great synergy...a very good cooperative arrangement. Systems were put into dual-use mode where a lot of science was getting done that couldn't be done any other way. It's a regrettable change in policy." Scientists say not only will research into the threat from space be hampered, but public understanding of sometimes dramatic sky explosions will be diminished, perhaps leading to hype and fear of the unknown. Incoming! Most "shooting stars" are caused by natural space debris no larger than peas. But routinely, rocks as big as basketballs and even small cars crash into the atmosphere. Most vaporize or explode on the way in, but some reach the surface or explode above the surface. Understandably, scientists want to know about these events so they can better predict the risk here on Earth. Yet because the world is two-thirds ocean, most incoming objects aren't visible to observers on the ground. Many other incoming space rocks go unnoticed because daylight drowns them out. Over the last decade or so, hundreds of these events have been spotted by the classified satellites. Priceless observational information derived from the spacecraft were made quickly available, giving researchers such insights as time, a location, height above the surface, as well as light-curves to help pin down the amount of energy churned out from the fireballs. And in the shaky world we now live, it's nice to know that a sky-high detonation is natural versus a nuclear weapon blast. Where the space-based surveillance truly shines is over remote stretches of ocean ? far away from the prospect of ground-based data collection. But all that ended within the last few months, leaving scientists blind-sided and miffed by the shift in policy. The hope is that the policy decision will be revisited and overturned. Critical importance "The fireball data from military or surveillance assets have been of critical importance for assessing the impact hazard," said David Morrison, a Near Earth Object (NEO) scientist at NASA's Ames Research Center. He noted that his views are his own, not as a NASA spokesperson. The size of the average largest atmospheric impact from small asteroids is a key piece of experimental data to anchor the low-energy end of the power-law distribution of impactors, from asteroids greater than 6 miles (10 kilometers) in diameter down to the meter scale, Morrison told SPACE.com. "These fireball data together with astronomical observations of larger near-Earth asteroids define the nature of the impact hazard and allow rational planning to deal with this issue," Morrison said. Morrison said that fireball data are today playing additional important roles. As example, the fireball data together with infrasound allowed scientists to verify the approximate size and energy of the unique Carancas impact in the Altiplano -- on the Peru-Bolivia border -- on Sept. 15, 2007. Fireball information also played an important part in the story of the small asteroid 2008 TC3, Morrison said. That was the first-ever case of the astronomical detection of a small asteroid before it hit last year. The fireball data were key for locating the impact point and the subsequent recovery of fragments from this impact. Link in public understanding Astronomers are closing in on a years-long effort to find most of the potentially devastating large asteroids in our neck of the cosmic woods, those that could cause widespread regional or global devastation. Now they plan to look for the smaller stuff. So it is ironic that the availability of these fireball data should be curtailed just at the time the NEO program is moving toward surveying the small impactors that are most likely to be picked up in the fireball monitoring program, Morrision said. "These data have been available to the scientific community for the past decade," he said. "It is unfortunate this information is shut off just when it is becoming more valuable to the community interested in characterizing near Earth asteroids and protecting our planet from asteroid impacts." The newly issued policy edict by the U.S. military of reporting fireball observations from satellites also caught the attention of Clark Chapman, a planetary scientist and asteroid impact expert at Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colorado. "I think that this information is very important to make public," Chapman told SPACE.com. "More important than the scientific value, I think, is that these rare, bright fireballs provide a link in public understanding to the asteroid impact hazard posed by still larger and less frequent asteroids," Chapman explained. Those objects are witnessed by unsuspecting people in far-flung places, Chapman said, often generating incorrect and exaggerated reports. "The grounding achieved by associating these reports by untrained observers with the satellite measurements is very useful for calibrating the observer reports and closing the loop with folks who think they have seen something mysterious and extraordinary," Chapman said. From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 16:12:54 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Military intelligence-- still an oxymoron. Message-ID: <903759.91123.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Perhaps they have found "the big one" heading right for us and dont want it to get out... --- On Thu, 6/11/09, Darren Garrison wrote: > From: Darren Garrison > Subject: [meteorite-list] Military intelligence-- still an oxymoron. > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 5:10 PM > http://www.space.com/news/090610-military-fireballs.html > > Military Hush-Up: Incoming Space Rocks Now Classified > By Leonard David > SPACE.com's Space Insider Columnist > posted: 10 June 2009 > 05:35 pm ET > > For 15 years, scientists have benefited from data gleaned > by U.S. classified > satellites of natural fireball events in Earth's atmosphere > ? but no longer. > > A recent U.S. military policy decision now explicitly > states that observations > by hush-hush government spacecraft of incoming bolides and > fireballs are > classified secret and are not to be released, SPACE.com has > learned. > > The satellites' main objectives include detecting nuclear > bomb tests, and their > characterizations of asteroids and lesser meteoroids as > they crash through the > atmosphere has been a byproduct data bonanza for > scientists. > > The upshot: Space rocks that explode in the atmosphere are > now classified. > > "It's baffling to us why this would suddenly change," said > one scientist > familiar with the work. "It's unfortunate because there was > this great > synergy...a very good cooperative arrangement. Systems were > put into dual-use > mode where a lot of science was getting done that couldn't > be done any other > way. It's a regrettable change in policy." > > Scientists say not only will research into the threat from > space be hampered, > but public understanding of sometimes dramatic sky > explosions will be > diminished, perhaps leading to hype and fear of the > unknown. > > Incoming! > > Most "shooting stars" are caused by natural space debris no > larger than peas. > But routinely, rocks as big as basketballs and even small > cars crash into the > atmosphere. Most vaporize or explode on the way in, but > some reach the surface > or explode above the surface. Understandably, scientists > want to know about > these events so they can better predict the risk here on > Earth. > > Yet because the world is two-thirds ocean, most incoming > objects aren't visible > to observers on the ground. Many other incoming space rocks > go unnoticed because > daylight drowns them out. > > Over the last decade or so, hundreds of these events have > been spotted by the > classified satellites. Priceless observational information > derived from the > spacecraft were made quickly available, giving researchers > such insights as > time, a location, height above the surface, as well as > light-curves to help pin > down the amount of energy churned out from the fireballs. > > And in the shaky world we now live, it's nice to know that > a sky-high detonation > is natural versus a nuclear weapon blast. > > Where the space-based surveillance truly shines is over > remote stretches of > ocean ? far away from the prospect of ground-based data > collection. > > But all that ended within the last few months, leaving > scientists blind-sided > and miffed by the shift in policy. The hope is that the > policy decision will be > revisited and overturned. > > Critical importance > > "The fireball data from military or surveillance assets > have been of critical > importance for assessing the impact hazard," said David > Morrison, a Near Earth > Object (NEO) scientist at NASA's Ames Research Center. He > noted that his views > are his own, not as a NASA spokesperson. > > The size of the average largest atmospheric impact from > small asteroids is a key > piece of experimental data to anchor the low-energy end of > the power-law > distribution of impactors, from asteroids greater than 6 > miles (10 kilometers) > in diameter down to the meter scale, Morrison told > SPACE.com. > > "These fireball data together with astronomical > observations of larger > near-Earth asteroids define the nature of the impact hazard > and allow rational > planning to deal with this issue," Morrison said. > > Morrison said that fireball data are today playing > additional important roles. > > As example, the fireball data together with infrasound > allowed scientists to > verify the approximate size and energy of the unique > Carancas impact in the > Altiplano -- on the Peru-Bolivia border -- on Sept. 15, > 2007. > > Fireball information also played an important part in the > story of the small > asteroid 2008 TC3, Morrison said. That was the first-ever > case of the > astronomical detection of a small asteroid before it hit > last year. The fireball > data were key for locating the impact point and the > subsequent recovery of > fragments from this impact. > > Link in public understanding > > Astronomers are closing in on a years-long effort to find > most of the > potentially devastating large asteroids in our neck of the > cosmic woods, those > that could cause widespread regional or global devastation. > Now they plan to > look for the smaller stuff. > > So it is ironic that the availability of these fireball > data should be curtailed > just at the time the NEO program is moving toward surveying > the small impactors > that are most likely to be picked up in the fireball > monitoring program, > Morrision said. > > "These data have been available to the scientific community > for the past > decade," he said. "It is unfortunate this information is > shut off just when it > is becoming more valuable to the community interested in > characterizing near > Earth asteroids and protecting our planet from asteroid > impacts." > > The newly issued policy edict by the U.S. military of > reporting fireball > observations from satellites also caught the attention of > Clark Chapman, a > planetary scientist and asteroid impact expert at Southwest > Research Institute > in Boulder, Colorado. > > "I think that this information is very important to make > public," Chapman told > SPACE.com. > > "More important than the scientific value, I think, is that > these rare, bright > fireballs provide a link in public understanding to the > asteroid impact hazard > posed by still larger and less frequent asteroids," Chapman > explained. > > Those objects are witnessed by unsuspecting people in > far-flung places, Chapman > said, often generating incorrect and exaggerated reports. > > "The grounding achieved by associating these reports by > untrained observers with > the satellite measurements is very useful for calibrating > the observer reports > and closing the loop with folks who think they have seen > something mysterious > and extraordinary," Chapman said. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 11 16:25:22 2009 From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:25:22 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Military intelligence-- still an oxymoron. In-Reply-To: <903759.91123.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I saw this article. For some reason the press tends to go extra-special whenever they report on military matters. My favorite part is this: >> >> The upshot: Space rocks that explode in the atmosphere are >> now classified. Yeah, that's it. You're not allowed to know that meteors exist. Why, that makes perfect sense, and I'm sure that's exactly how the rule change was phrased. It seems more likely that someone decided that a clever observer could discern important details about our technical capabilities from the information handed out to meteor watchers and decided to clamp down. It may be a temporary change while they review the policy, but you can't tell from that magnificent piece of professional journalism. Magnificent. From GeoZay at aol.com Thu Jun 11 16:29:06 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:29:06 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? Message-ID: >>Why didn't you ask some one on the list, in Germany to try to fine out the truth!!<< Because no part of this story made any sense. It was as if no one was actually there to witness anything and it was all a fabricated fantasy. He might as well been describing a 6 foot tall invisible bunny. GeoZay **************Dell Deals: Don?t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops starting at $449. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B i) From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jun 11 16:21:20 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 11 Jun 2009 20:21:20 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Re-2: Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? Message-ID: "He might as well been describing a 6 foot tall invisible bunny. Harvey :-)) Best, Bernd From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Thu Jun 11 16:37:39 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:37:39 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Military intelligence-- still an oxymoron. References: <903759.91123.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5567C0BF3A6B4CC9BC57C92B4DC6D6E2@bellatrix> > Perhaps they have found "the big one" heading right for > us and dont want it to get out... The satellites involved only look down. So if they've found the big one, it's pretty darn close... Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Catterton" To: Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 2:12 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Military intelligence-- still an oxymoron. > > Perhaps they have found "the big one" heading right for us and dont want > it to get out... From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 11 16:56:54 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rovers Update: May 28 - June 3, 2009 Message-ID: <200906112056.NAA03824@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html SPIRIT UPDATE: Underbelly Photography - sols 1920-1926, May 28 - June 03, 2009: Although Spirit has yet to begin to extricate herself from the loose, soft terrain on the west side of Home Plate, the rover has been active using her instruments to assess her embedded state. This week the robotic arm (Instrument Deployment Device, IDD) with the Microscopic Imager (MI) were used to take a mosaic of images of the rover's underbelly. The MI, a short focus camera, was never designed to take these types of long-focus images. This technique was first tested by Opportunity and the test demonstrated that although the images will not be sharply focused, sufficient detail can be seen. Spirit's first MI mosaic of the underbelly was collected on Sol 1922 (May 30, 2009). The IDD then positioned the MI to collect a stack of images of a science soil target and placed the M?ssbauer (MB) spectrometer on the science target for a multi-sol integration. Spirit collected a second underbelly image mosaic on Sol 1925 (June 2, 2009). This time the IDD extended further under the rover to capture more detail. The IDD then collected another MI stack of images of a science target followed by the placement of the Alpha-Particle X-ray Spectrometer (APXS) on the same target. Frames of a 360-degree color panorama, called the Calypso panorama, were collected. Targeted observations were made with the miniature thermal emission spectrometer. The project was successful in restoring files to a computer server so that the surface system testbed (SSTB) rover at JPL could be operated. Soil simulant tests with the SSTB were performed on "Bag House" dust simulant. Unfortunately, the test results show that the Bag House dust is not suitable as a simulant for Spirit's situation. A new simulant is being formulated and will be tested shortly. As of Sol 1926, solar array energy production was generous at 884 watt-hours with atmospheric opacity (tau) of 0.458 and a dust factor of 0.772. Spirit's total odometry remains at 7,729.93 meters (4.80 miles). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Southbound Progress - sols 1900-1905, May 29 - June 03, 2009: Opportunity has been busy driving south. The rover drove four out of the last six sols. The drives have all been blind drives with regular slip checks for progress. On Sols 1900, 1902 and 1904 (May 29, May 31 and June 2, 2009), Opportunity drove 66, 71 and 74 meters, (217, 233 and 243 feet), respectively. On Sol 1905 (June 3, 2009), the rover only accomplished about 30 meters (98 feet) of driving before the time ran out. Activities were very time-constrained on that sol. Motor currents in the right-front wheel continue to be elevated. Limiting the drive distance and employing regular, short, backward slip checks seems to mitigate further increases in right-front wheel current. As of Sol 1905 (June 3, 2009), Opportunity's solar array energy production is 413 watt-hours. Atmospheric opacity (tau) is 0.559. The dust factor is 0.542, meaning that 54.2 percent of sunlight hitting the solar array penetrates the layer of accumulated dust on the array. Opportunity's total odometry is 16,424.22 meters (10.2 miles). From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jun 11 16:58:02 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:58:02 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601c9ead7$4fa08d40$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> It's similar to the cases of Pauline Aguss: http://meteorite-identification.com/mwnews/08172004a.htm and Siobhan Cowton: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2218755.stm Would be speculation, to ask for their motivation, whether really believe that they were hit by a meteorite or if they have reasons for telling so, the stones at least weren't meteorites. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von GeoZay at aol.com Gesendet: Donnerstag, 11. Juni 2009 22:29 An: bolinousa at msn.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? >>Why didn't you ask some one on the list, in Germany to try to fine out the truth!!<< Because no part of this story made any sense. It was as if no one was actually there to witness anything and it was all a fabricated fantasy. He might as well been describing a 6 foot tall invisible bunny. GeoZay **************Dell Deals: Don?t miss huge summer savings on popular laptops starting at $449. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=htt p:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B i) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 11 16:59:14 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - June 10, 2009 Message-ID: <200906112059.NAA04874@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES June 10, 2009 o Small Crater Near Upper Reach of Mamers Valles http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_010630_2115 o Of Polar Pits and Gullies http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012873_1075 o Grand Canyon of Gale Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012195_1750 o Light-Toned Hummock in Iani Region http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012016_1800 o South Polar Region Cryptic Terrain http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011946_0985 o Fans and Seasonal Polygonal Features http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011792_0980 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 11 17:02:00 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Japan's Kaguya Spacecraft Impacts the Moon Message-ID: <200906112102.OAA05529@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0906/10kaguya/ A smashing end for Japanese lunar orbiter mission BY STEPHEN CLARK SPACEFLIGHT NOW June 10, 2009 An Australian telescope observed the controlled crash of Japan's Kaguya lunar probe into the moon Wednesday, an important warm-up act before a NASA impactor attempts a similar feat in October with much higher stakes. [Images] The image above shows a sequence of four frames around the impact time, with a bright impact flash visible in the second frame, and faintly seen in the third and fourth. Credit: Anglo-Australian Telescope by Jeremy Bailey (University of New South Wales) and Steve Lee (Anglo-Australian Observatory) The impact was a planned violent ending to a highly successful $500 million mission that lasted nearly two years. Kaguya smacked into the moon at about 1825 GMT Wednesday, or about 3:25 a.m. Japan time Thursday. The spacecraft hit the moon at 80.4 degrees east longitude and 65.5 degrees south latitude, or near the lower right quadrant of the moon's near side as viewed from Earth, according to the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency. The Anglo-Australian Telescope's infrared wide-field camera and spectrograph, called IRIS2, detected the flash of the high-speed impact. "A bright impact flash was seen close to the predicted time," said Jeremy Bailey, one of the observers. Bernard Foing, project manager of the European Space Agency's SMART 1 mission, alerted Australian scientists of Kaguya's impact. "Congratulations for the successful observation of (the) Kaguya impact at the Anglo-Australian Telescope," Foing wrote in an email to Bailey and other scientists. Foing is executive director of the International Lunar Exploration Working Group, an organization established by the world's space agencies as a public forum for scientists. SMART 1 crashed into the moon in 2006 after a technology demonstration mission in lunar orbit. The Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope at Mauna Kea observed that event. Kaguya was five times heavier than SMART 1 and was aiming for a region in darkness near the terminator. Those conditions meant dust from the impact could be thrown into space and illuminated by sunlight. Scientists will analyze the imagery to look for evidence of a dust plume like the one produced by SMART 1, officials said. Kaguya was flying at a horizontal velocity of about 4,000 mph, but the spacecraft struck the moon at an angle of just 1 degree. The grazing impact was expected to diminish the crater size and dust cloud caused by the crash. The spacecraft, about the size of a sports utility vehicle, was remotely commanded to lower its orbit and hit the moon as its fuel supply dwindled. Officials said they wanted to end the mission before Kaguya ran out of fuel because that would eventually lead to an uncontrolled impact. "At low altitude, a lot of fuel is needed to maintain the orbit," Foing said. "We take advantage of the opportunity to create a well-characterized impact experiment." Kaguya, also named SELENE, launched in September 2007 and arrived at the moon about 20 days later to begin nearly two years of observations using 15 science payloads. The instruments included a stereo camera suite, an array of sensors designed to sniff for hydrogen, a laser altimeter that measured the shape of the moon, and a payload to probe the local radiation environment. Kaguya also carried a high definition camera that beamed back stunning video imagery of the moon. The spacecraft released two daughter satellites after entering lunar orbit. The 110-pound satellites helped Kaguya study the moon's gravity field and the lunar ionosphere. One of the probes was guided into the moon in February, and the other is still being operated. Wednesday's impact was similar to the demise of other lunar missions, including SMART 1. NASA's Lunar Prospector was ordered to plunge into a permanently shadowed crater near the moon's south pole in 1999. The Chinese Chang'e 1 orbiter ended its exploration of the moon in March with a lunar impact. Scientists must draw upon telescopes around the world to observe spacecraft impacts. Lunar Prospector's final moments were studied by the orbiting Hubble Space Telescope, the McDonald Observatory in Texas and the Keck Observatory in Hawaii. NASA is launching the first devoted lunar impactor next week to begin a four-month cruise through space that will culiminate with an October crash into a permanently shadowed crater at the moon's south pole. The mission is called the Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite, or LCROSS. The spacecraft carries a complex group of sensors that will give scientists their closest look of an impact as the probe's Centaur rocket smashes in the moon. Spectrometers aboard LCROSS will attempt to sense hydrogen and water molecules in the material ejected from the crater. The LCROSS impact sequence will also be observed by Hubble and an array of Earth-based telescopes. LCROSS will launch with the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, the first mission in NASA's plans to return humans to the moon. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 11 17:14:19 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 14:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] WISE Mission Assembled and Preparing for Launch Message-ID: <200906112114.OAA07628@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=2183 WISE Mission Assembled and Preparing for Launch Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 10, 2009 PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA's Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer, or WISE, has been assembled and is undergoing final preparations for a planned Nov. 1 launch from Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif. The mission will survey the entire sky at infrared wavelengths, creating a cosmic clearinghouse of hundreds of millions of objects -- everything from the most luminous galaxies, to the nearest stars, to dark and potentially hazardous asteroids. The survey will be the most detailed to date in infrared light, with a sensitivity hundreds of times better than that of its predecessor, the Infrared Astronomical Satellite. "Most of the sky has never been imaged at these infrared wavelengths with this kind of sensitivity," said Edward Wright, the mission's principal investigator at UCLA. "We are sure to find many surprises." On May 17, the mission's science instrument was delivered to Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp. in Boulder, Colo., where it was attached to the spacecraft, built by Ball. The assembled unit was then blasted by sound to simulate the effects of launch. Tests for electronic "noise" in the detectors will be performed next. The science instrument is a 40-centimeter (16-inch) telescope with four infrared cameras. A cryostat, or cooler, uses frozen hydrogen to chill the sensitive megapixel infrared detectors down to seven Kelvin (minus 447 degrees Fahrenheit). The instrument was built by Space Dynamics Laboratory in Logan, Utah. Among expected finds from WISE are hundreds of thousands of asteroids in our solar system's asteroid belt, and hundreds of additional asteroids that come near Earth. Many asteroids have gone undetected because they don't reflect much visible light, but their heat makes them glow in infrared light that WISE can see. By cataloguing the objects, the mission will provide better estimates of their sizes, a critical step for assessing the risk associated with those that might impact Earth. "We know that asteroids occasionally hit Earth, and we'd like to have a better idea of how many there are and their sizes," said Amy Mainzer of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., the mission's deputy project scientist. "Whether they are dark or shiny, they all emit infrared light. They can't hide from WISE." The mission is also expected to find the coldest stars -- dim orbs called brown dwarfs that are too small to have ignited like our sun. Brown dwarfs are littered throughout our galaxy, but because they are so cool, they are often too faint to see in visible light. The infrared detectors on WISE will pick up the glow of roughly 1,000 brown dwarfs in our galaxy, including those coldest and closest to our solar system. In fact, astronomers say the mission could find a brown dwarf closer to us than the nearest known star, Proxima Centauri, located approximately 4 light-years away. "We've been learning that brown dwarfs may have planets, so it's possible we'll find the closest planetary systems," said Peter Eisenhardt, the mission's project scientist at JPL. "We should also find many hundreds of brown dwarfs colder than 480 degrees Celsius (900 degrees Fahrenheit), a group that as of now has only nine known members." In addition, the survey will reveal the universe's most luminous galaxies seen long ago in the dusty throes of their formation, disks of planet-forming material around stars, and other cosmic goodies. The observations will guide other infrared telescopes to the most interesting objects for follow-up studies. For example, NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope, the Herschel observatory just launched by ESA with significant NASA participation, and NASA's upcoming James Webb Space Telescope will direct their gaze at objects uncovered by WISE. WISE will lift off from Vandenberg aboard a United Launch Alliance Delta II rocket. It will orbit Earth, mapping the entire sky in six months after a one-month checkout period. Its frozen hydrogen is expected to last several months longer, allowing WISE to map much of the sky a second time and see what has changed. JPL manages the Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer for NASA's Science Mission Directorate. The mission's principal investigator, Edward Wright, is at UCLA. The mission was developed under NASA's Explorer Program managed by the Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. The science instrument was built by the Space Dynamics Laboratory and the spacecraft was built by Ball Aerospace & Technologies Corp. Science operations and data processing will take place at the Infrared Processing and Analysis Center at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. Caltech manages JPL for NASA. More information is online at http://wise.ssl.berkeley.edu/mission.html . The Infrared Astronomical Satellite, launched in 1983, was a joint mission between NASA, the United Kingdom and the Netherlands. Media contact: Whitney Clavin/JPL 818-354-4673 From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 11 17:35:03 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:35:03 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Future Planetary Collision? References: <9FEFC38C25074C8DAD14C905C798209F@HAL1> Message-ID: <3E416EE4212A4827AFC9C17399ABFBD8@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, Charley, List, I'd just spotted the same press release (it turns out) on Space.com: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090610-planets-colllide.html The wobbly behavior of the Inner Solar System is not a new discovery. Here's a movie of the inner solar system's actual orbital evolution over the last 3,000,000 years: http://muller.lbl.gov/pages/innerplanets.html It can be downloaded directly from here: http://muller.lbl.gov/images/inner.mov The movie that you can view or download from this page is about 12 Mbytes long, and in .mov format. I used QuickTime Player (.mov is its native format) because you can step through it frame by frame (right/left arrows). Real Player and Windows Media Player (10) will also play it. You can open it in a browser window if you have the Quick Time plugin (takes a bit to download). The scale of the animation is not exaggerated or amplified. If you could sit in space and watch the inner solar system trace each orbit with a visible line, this is what you'd see. The units on the edges of the background plane are AU's. The site rather modestly says, "Even if you are an expert, you may be surprised at what you see!" "Drunk drivers at NASCAR track" would be a good title, if you pasted in some little cartoon racers with sponsor patches. Is this the renowned "stability" of the solar system we hear so much about? And, of course, it IS stable. Nothing has gone wrong in the last three million years nor for a long time before that (or has it?). Still, everything just wobbles like crazy... Currently, Venus can approach as close as 24.7 million miles and Mars as close as 34.7 million miles, but it would seem that in the past (and future too) their close approaches could be as near as roughly half that distance. I found this movie to be utterly fascinating (could be just me). After a few times through it, I would concentrate on just watching one planet at a time: Mercury slides back and forth like it was shifting the Sun from one elliptical focus point to the other; Mars' orbit expands and contracts; Venus and the Earth pull up close and flirt with resonance lock; they all rock back and forth. Venus is the one that worries me. The orbit of Venus has peculiarities, too. Venus's "year" is 224.7 Earth days. Venus's "day" is 243.01 Earth days. But because Venus's axial rotation is backward measured against the Sun and stars, the Venusian "solar day" is only 116.75 Earth days long. Of course, we could just as well not describe Venus's rotation as "backward," but just consider that Venus rotates "normally" but with its axis turned completely upside-down, by 177.4 degrees! However you look at it, Venus is the only body of any size in the solar system to rotate "backward." If you regard "normal" rotation as required, as it is, by most theories of solar system formation, then you have to invoke a Big Whack to turn Venus upside-down! That would have to be one heck of a whack, too. The energy transfer would be so great it's hard to imagine the planet could have survived it. So, there's another theory: that the solar tides on the thick atmosphere have braked Venus down to a standstill and are now spinning'er up in the backward direction. Myself, I think the atmospheric torque is just not big enough to do the job, and since what little we know about the surface of Venus suggests that there are virtually no winds at all at the surface (and you have to have wind to apply atmospheric torque to the surface), I think it's hooey. The math is complex and not entirely convincing. The position of Venus in the Earth's sky cycles in the time it takes Venus to lap the Earth in its orbit, 593.92 Earth days, the synodic period. Oddly, that period is almost 5 Venus days, to be exact, 5.0014 Venus days. This means, annoyingly, that when you're trying to radar map Venus from the Earth at the close approach when you have the highest resolution, you're looking at almost exactly the same patch of Venus you were looking at the last time! Over and over again. The synodic period of Venus, 593.92 Earth days, is almost exactly 8/5ths of an Earth year, so that every eight Earth years the positions of Earth and Venus line up very closely with only a tiny amount of drift in position from cycle to cycle. Every 152 Venus synodic cycles of 593.92 Earth days, the line-up returns to its original precise positions, creating a long cycle of precise repetitions of the positions of Venus and the Earth. This long cycle takes 243.01 Earth years. Now, if the number 243.01 seems familiar, it's because it "happens" to be the length of Venus's axial rotation in Earth days, the sidereal period! The extreme regularity of this cycle of Venusian positions with respect to the Earth creates the long and precisely repeating cycle of Venus's transits of the Sun, meaningless except that these mark the timing of the Sun's passage across the nodes of the mutual plane of Earth's and Venus's orbits. So, how many 243.01 Earth day sidereal periods of Venus does the transit cycle take? Why, 365.24 of them, which "happens" to be the number of days in the Earth year, just as 243.01 is the number of Earth days in the Venus day. Personally, I find that just plain spooky. Officially, these coincidences are just that: coincidences. The Earth and Venus are not in an 8:5 resonance, officially, yet when you either regress or progress the orbits, these regularities do not go away. They drift in and out of greater or lesser regularity for as far as the floating point calculations can go, for millions of years, without any divergence. It is an extremely stable configuration. There was a lot of argument in the 1960's about whether this was "really" a resonance or not, and by the 70's, it was branded an annoying coincidence. Personally, I think it's too neat to be a coincidence, so I was cheered last year when I ran across a AGU paper that calculated that the differences between the atmospheric tidal torques and the solid tidal torques generated by Venus's tiny eccentricity acted to push Venus back and forth and avoid the adjacent two planets falling into a recurring perfect face-to-face lock, Venus with the Earth, by minutely altering the length of Venus' "day"! I stand on "spooky" as the best description of the universe. Oddly, shifting from one dangerous situation to another makes life in the universe fairly safe. The "danger" in a dangerous situation is that you stay in that situation. If two planets have a resonant lock and keep meeting face-to-face, the two will increase the eccentricity (but not the period) of each other's orbit by the slow repetition of tugging at each other every close pass, making each successive pass closer and closer and closer... So it's a good thing that something always messes up that doomed arrangement, like the meddling of Jupiter. These articles about simulations are always interesting, but there are always things that can get overlooked. Take the solar wind. Among other things, when you calculate "backwards," you have to keep changing the mass of the Sun! The solar wind carries mass away from the Sun so that it becomes progressively lighter over long timespans. You have to work out the rate of mass loss and keep adding that mass back into the Sun as you go back millions, even billions, of years in time! This constantly changes the central force in your motion equations. I don't doubt the calculations... exactly. The principal, Laskar, has been doing these simulations for more than 20 years. He says an Earth-Venus bump is the most likely bad news (and that's obvious without a super-computer). They say their model is more accurate "because Laskar and Gastineau's model relies on non-averaged equations and accounts for general relativity." Well, their model is not the first to account for general relativity. The reason that they present the results of many runs of their model is this: even though the math is now accurate enough to calculate long periods, every few million years (about 12) you run into a chaos bottleneck, a "divergence," which is a fork in the road with a 50%-50% chance that one of two paths is correct. What they have done is flipped a coin every 12,000,000 years or so and gone on, then repeated the run and gone the other way this time, with each divergence. So they get statistics, not certainty. 12 times out of 2500 times, the Earth did such and so, they say. What does that "prove"? Anything at all? There is no certainty. On the micro-scale, the universe is quantum chaos. Particles tunnel right through force barriers by de-materializing and re-materializing on the other side. Electrons act like waves one minute and then turn into particles the next instant. God plays dice with the universe; matter transforms at random. It's a mess, Lord. On the macro-scale of everyday life, the universe is deterministic. My computer works (most of the time); my car engine runs; gravity always makes things fall at the same accelerated rate. Objects that act like particles never turn into waves and vanish -- Phfft! It's so orderly. But on the super-macro-scale of deep space and deep time, the universe goes back to being in a state of quantum chaos at a long slow pace, seemingly deterministic until it goes just as random and whacky as the micro-scale universe. As for the solar system, enjoy it while it lasts. Sterling K. Webb --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charley" To: Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:49 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Future Planetary Collision? > Hi List, > > Maybe a bit off topic although lots of meteoroids would be created. > > A French researcher says we may have a collision with Venus or Mars in > 3.5 billion years. > > http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2009-06/11/content_8271159.htm > > > Best regards, > > Charley > > "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's > try elephants !" > > Hannibal > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cmb62 at columbus.rr.com Thu Jun 11 18:22:16 2009 From: cmb62 at columbus.rr.com (Charley) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:22:16 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Future Planetary Collision? In-Reply-To: <3E416EE4212A4827AFC9C17399ABFBD8@ATARIENGINE2> References: <9FEFC38C25074C8DAD14C905C798209F@HAL1> <3E416EE4212A4827AFC9C17399ABFBD8@ATARIENGINE2> Message-ID: Hi Sterling, Thanks for the links and also all the information you provided. The movie is astounding to say the least but even more amazing to me is the "spooky" part about the (non-official) resonance between Venus and The Earth. Wow! Thank you very much for the in depth explanation-I'm sure it took you a lot of time and trouble to put it together and I really appreciate the information. I learn a lot from this list! Best regards, Charley "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's try elephants !" Hannibal Sterling K. Webb wrote: > Hi, Charley, List, > > I'd just spotted the same press release > (it turns out) on Space.com: > http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090610-planets-colllide.html > > The wobbly behavior of the Inner Solar System > is not a new discovery. Here's a movie of the inner > solar system's actual orbital evolution over the last > 3,000,000 years: > http://muller.lbl.gov/pages/innerplanets.html > It can be downloaded directly from here: > http://muller.lbl.gov/images/inner.mov > > The movie that you can view or download from > this page is about 12 Mbytes long, and in .mov > format. I used QuickTime Player (.mov is its native > format) because you can step through it frame by > frame (right/left arrows). Real Player and Windows > Media Player (10) will also play it. You can open it > in a browser window if you have the Quick Time > plugin (takes a bit to download). > > The scale of the animation is not exaggerated > or amplified. If you could sit in space and watch the > inner solar system trace each orbit with a visible > line, this is what you'd see. The units on the edges > of the background plane are AU's. The site rather > modestly says, "Even if you are an expert, you may > be surprised at what you see!" > > "Drunk drivers at NASCAR track" would be > a good title, if you pasted in some little cartoon > racers with sponsor patches. Is this the renowned > "stability" of the solar system we hear so much about? > > And, of course, it IS stable. Nothing has gone > wrong in the last three million years nor for a long > time before that (or has it?). Still, everything just > wobbles like crazy... > > Currently, Venus can approach as close as 24.7 > million miles and Mars as close as 34.7 million miles, > but it would seem that in the past (and future too) > their close approaches could be as near as roughly > half that distance. > > I found this movie to be utterly fascinating (could > be just me). After a few times through it, I would > concentrate on just watching one planet at a time: > Mercury slides back and forth like it was shifting the > Sun from one elliptical focus point to the other; Mars' > orbit expands and contracts; Venus and the Earth > pull up close and flirt with resonance lock; they > all rock back and forth. > > Venus is the one that worries me. The orbit of > Venus has peculiarities, too. Venus's "year" is 224.7 > Earth days. Venus's "day" is 243.01 Earth days. But > because Venus's axial rotation is backward measured > against the Sun and stars, the Venusian "solar day" > is only 116.75 Earth days long. Of course, we could > just as well not describe Venus's rotation as "backward," > but just consider that Venus rotates "normally" but > with its axis turned completely upside-down, by 177.4 > degrees! However you look at it, Venus is the only body > of any size in the solar system to rotate "backward." > > If you regard "normal" rotation as required, as it is, > by most theories of solar system formation, then you > have to invoke a Big Whack to turn Venus upside-down! > That would have to be one heck of a whack, too. The > energy transfer would be so great it's hard to imagine > the planet could have survived it. > > So, there's another theory: that the solar tides on the > thick atmosphere have braked Venus down to a standstill > and are now spinning'er up in the backward direction. > Myself, I think the atmospheric torque is just not big > enough to do the job, and since what little we know about > the surface of Venus suggests that there are virtually no > winds at all at the surface (and you have to have wind to > apply atmospheric torque to the surface), I think it's hooey. > The math is complex and not entirely convincing. > > The position of Venus in the Earth's sky cycles in the > time it takes Venus to lap the Earth in its orbit, 593.92 > Earth days, the synodic period. Oddly, that period is > almost 5 Venus days, to be exact, 5.0014 Venus days. > This means, annoyingly, that when you're trying to > radar map Venus from the Earth at the close approach > when you have the highest resolution, you're looking > at almost exactly the same patch of Venus you were > looking at the last time! Over and over again. > > The synodic period of Venus, 593.92 Earth days, > is almost exactly 8/5ths of an Earth year, so that every > eight Earth years the positions of Earth and Venus line > up very closely with only a tiny amount of drift in position > from cycle to cycle. Every 152 Venus synodic cycles of > 593.92 Earth days, the line-up returns to its original > precise positions, creating a long cycle of precise > repetitions of the positions of Venus and the Earth. > This long cycle takes 243.01 Earth years. > > Now, if the number 243.01 seems familiar, it's > because it "happens" to be the length of Venus's axial > rotation in Earth days, the sidereal period! The extreme > regularity of this cycle of Venusian positions with respect > to the Earth creates the long and precisely repeating > cycle of Venus's transits of the Sun, meaningless except > that these mark the timing of the Sun's passage across > the nodes of the mutual plane of Earth's and Venus's orbits. > > So, how many 243.01 Earth day sidereal periods of > Venus does the transit cycle take? Why, 365.24 of them, > which "happens" to be the number of days in the Earth > year, just as 243.01 is the number of Earth days in the > Venus day. > > Personally, I find that just plain spooky. Officially, these > coincidences are just that: coincidences. The Earth and > Venus are not in an 8:5 resonance, officially, yet when you > either regress or progress the orbits, these regularities > do not go away. They drift in and out of greater or lesser > regularity for as far as the floating point calculations can > go, for millions of years, without any divergence. It is an > extremely stable configuration. > > There was a lot of argument in the 1960's about whether > this was "really" a resonance or not, and by the 70's, it was > branded an annoying coincidence. Personally, I think it's > too neat to be a coincidence, so I was cheered last year when > I ran across a AGU paper that calculated that the differences > between the atmospheric tidal torques and the solid tidal > torques generated by Venus's tiny eccentricity acted to push > Venus back and forth and avoid the adjacent two planets > falling into a recurring perfect face-to-face lock, Venus with > the Earth, by minutely altering the length of Venus' "day"! > > I stand on "spooky" as the best description of the > universe. Oddly, shifting from one dangerous situation > to another makes life in the universe fairly safe. The "danger" > in a dangerous situation is that you stay in that situation. > If two planets have a resonant lock and keep meeting > face-to-face, the two will increase the eccentricity (but > not the period) of each other's orbit by the slow repetition > of tugging at each other every close pass, making each > successive pass closer and closer and closer... So it's a > good thing that something always messes up that doomed > arrangement, like the meddling of Jupiter. > > These articles about simulations are always interesting, > but there are always things that can get overlooked. Take > the solar wind. Among other things, when you calculate > "backwards," you have to keep changing the mass of the > Sun! The solar wind carries mass away from the Sun so > that it becomes progressively lighter over long timespans. > You have to work out the rate of mass loss and keep > adding that mass back into the Sun as you go back > millions, even billions, of years in time! This constantly > changes the central force in your motion equations. > > I don't doubt the calculations... exactly. The principal, > Laskar, has been doing these simulations for more than > 20 years. He says an Earth-Venus bump is the most likely > bad news (and that's obvious without a super-computer). > They say their model is more accurate "because Laskar > and Gastineau's model relies on non-averaged equations and accounts > for general relativity." Well, their model is not the first to > account for general relativity. The reason that they present > the results of many runs of their model is this: even though > the math is now accurate enough to calculate long periods, > every few million years (about 12) you run into a chaos > bottleneck, a "divergence," which is a fork in the road with > a 50%-50% chance that one of two paths is correct. > > What they have done is flipped a coin every 12,000,000 > years or so and gone on, then repeated the run and gone > the other way this time, with each divergence. So they > get statistics, not certainty. 12 times out of 2500 times, > the Earth did such and so, they say. What does that > "prove"? Anything at all? > > There is no certainty. On the micro-scale, the universe > is quantum chaos. Particles tunnel right through force > barriers by de-materializing and re-materializing on the other > side. Electrons act like waves one minute and then turn into > particles the next instant. God plays dice with the universe; > matter transforms at random. It's a mess, Lord. > > On the macro-scale of everyday life, the universe is > deterministic. My computer works (most of the time); my > car engine runs; gravity always makes things fall at the > same accelerated rate. Objects that act like particles never > turn into waves and vanish -- Phfft! It's so orderly. > > But on the super-macro-scale of deep space and deep > time, the universe goes back to being in a state of quantum > chaos at a long slow pace, seemingly deterministic until it > goes just as random and whacky as the micro-scale universe. > > As for the solar system, enjoy it while it lasts. > > > Sterling K. Webb > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charley" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 11:49 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Future Planetary Collision? > > >> Hi List, >> >> Maybe a bit off topic although lots of meteoroids would be created. >> >> A French researcher says we may have a collision with Venus or Mars in >> 3.5 billion years. >> >> http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2009-06/11/content_8271159.htm >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Charley >> >> "Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's >> try elephants !" >> >> Hannibal >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 19:59:23 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 16:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Military intelligence-- still an oxymoron. Message-ID: <667233.62573.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Who knows what justification was used but I've got a pretty good idea I know what the real reason is. For 4 months I've had weekly phone calls with AF Personnel all over the globe and against all belief I very much suspected that something had gone dark. As to the article someone somewhere in the "Gouffment" will have issued a press release--tranparency and all that. Rhymes with AFLAC I expect. Then again I might have prompted it by making all those Freedom of Information Act fireball data requests. In the (g)olden days of fireball reports, the data was sanitized (like GPS signals used to be deliberately degraded) to make the data useful but to not to give away the collecting asset's (RID)capabilities. Dr Peter Brown used to post the releases but rumor has it he moved to a foreign but more meteoritically progressive country...Canada I think it was. This will probably get me a visit from a "Yo'Mama Administration Homey-Land Dark Suit-Squad" but what the heck!... I estimate by this day and age we can probably count nosecone rivets during assent on the other side of the globe and detect when an un-named Lunatic National Leader of an un-named Northern Division of a divided country in Asia lights up his weed bong. Elton --- On Thu, 6/11/09, Fries, Marc D wrote: ??My favorite part > is this: The upshot: Space rocks that explode in the atmosphere are now classified. > > Yeah, that's it.? You're not allowed to know that > meteors exist.? Why, that makes perfect sense, and I'm sure that's exactly how the rule change was phrased. > > It seems more likely that someone decided that a clever > observer could discern important details about our technical capabilities from the information handed out to meteor watchers and decided to clamp down.? It may be a temporary change while they review the policy, but you can't tell from that magnificent piece of professional journalism. > > Magnificent. From meteoritemike at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 20:40:45 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:40:45 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? Message-ID: Hi Listees! About 2 hours ago, I was uploading photos and entries into my collection on the Encyclopedia of Meteorites site, and then I stopped to go run an errand. When I came back about 10 minutes ago, I tried going back to the Encyclopedia site and continue entering my collection - now the site is giving some weird error message. Is anyone else having the same problem? Is it leftover bugs from the switchover in software? BTW, the new interface looks and behaves great in all other respects. Nice job to Norbert and crew for pulling it off. :) Best regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From stm at bellsouth.net Thu Jun 11 20:48:03 2009 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:48:03 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5AC18B5CBE8A4A028CF1247434481179@Platinum2> Looks like the asp is gone for login... I tried to access the root and got an error... it could be because it expects the asp, and they never added a redirect for the default... Server Error in '/' Application. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Required permissions cannot be acquired. Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code. Exception Details: System.Security.Policy.PolicyException: Required permissions cannot be acquired. Source Error: An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? > Hi Listees! > > About 2 hours ago, I was uploading photos and entries into my > collection on the Encyclopedia of Meteorites site, and then I stopped > to go run an errand. When I came back about 10 minutes ago, I tried > going back to the Encyclopedia site and continue entering my > collection - now the site is giving some weird error message. Is > anyone else having the same problem? Is it leftover bugs from the > switchover in software? > > BTW, the new interface looks and behaves great in all other respects. > Nice job to Norbert and crew for pulling it off. :) > > Best regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bcmeteorites at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 21:07:19 2009 From: bcmeteorites at gmail.com (bcmeteorites) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:07:19 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? In-Reply-To: <5AC18B5CBE8A4A028CF1247434481179@Platinum2> Message-ID: Mike, Sean, and List The new Encyclopedia of Meteorites is still in the final configuration stages and you should have received the following message: "Web site is currently off line. We are moving the website to our new hosting provider. It will take a few days. We expect be back with our new version on June 15, 2009. Thank you for understanding!" The site should be up and fully functional soon! Bob Falls "Part of the crew working on new Encyclopedia of Meteorites" -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Sean T. Murray Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:48 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? Looks like the asp is gone for login... I tried to access the root and got an error... it could be because it expects the asp, and they never added a redirect for the default... Server Error in '/' Application. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Required permissions cannot be acquired. Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code. Exception Details: System.Security.Policy.PolicyException: Required permissions cannot be acquired. Source Error: An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identified using the exception stack trace below. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? > Hi Listees! > > About 2 hours ago, I was uploading photos and entries into my > collection on the Encyclopedia of Meteorites site, and then I stopped > to go run an errand. When I came back about 10 minutes ago, I tried > going back to the Encyclopedia site and continue entering my > collection - now the site is giving some weird error message. Is > anyone else having the same problem? Is it leftover bugs from the > switchover in software? > > BTW, the new interface looks and behaves great in all other respects. > Nice job to Norbert and crew for pulling it off. :) > > Best regards and clear skies, > > MikeG > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Thu Jun 11 21:19:45 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:19:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay user name change. Message-ID: <93740.54058.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi to all, I have changed my ebay user ID. It is now WanderingStarMeteorites the "star_wars_coiiector" is not being used anymore. Just to let everyone know. When you want to see what I have for sale, you will now need to use this link: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1 Hope everyone is having a good day, We have had over 4 inches of rain here today, the walmart parking lot had 3 inches of standing water earlier! Greg C. From grf2 at verizon.net Thu Jun 11 21:54:57 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:54:57 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 11, 2009 References: Message-ID: What a great photo of a classic specimen. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:21 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 11, 2009 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_11_2009.html > > __________________________ > > **************Dell Deals: Don?t miss huge summer savings on popular > laptops > starting at $449. > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221770187x1201425153/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215566131%3B37864407%3B > i) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From tricottetcoll at live.com Fri Jun 12 04:03:11 2009 From: tricottetcoll at live.com (The Tricottet Collection) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 08:03:11 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Gao, Park Forest, St Michel and Weston Message-ID: Dear list members, I have the following meteorites available - Please make offer if interested. Thank you, ArnaudM * Gao ideal lot: 439 g stone with brown patina, 27.24 g full slice with old label from unk. coll., 11.71 g bullet with roll-over rim (the best I have ever seen) * Park Forest: 27.1 g full slice, spectacular display * St Michel: 16.33 g crusted fragment, from the Helsinki natural history museum (no label) * Weston: 8.92 g crusted fragment, from the historic 2007 Bonhams auction "Historic Meteorites and Related Americana" (comes with catalog) _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From meteoriteshow at free.fr Fri Jun 12 06:37:08 2009 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:37:08 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday Message-ID: <011201c9eb49$bd7cea30$0300a8c0@T42> Dear Listees, Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow They include: 1- Gao-Guenie - H5 - 4.3g ORIENTED individual: dimensions 17x12x11mm. Complete individual offered as found from the strewnfield. STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330334399864 2- SAH 02500 L3 - 503.6g - 5 pces, weighing respectively: 153.45g + 124.95g + 99.67g + 81.77g + 43.71g. ALL of them are partially fusion crusted, some of them display quite big chondrules at the surface... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330334399883 3- Sikhote-Alin IRON IIAB - 12.6g oriented individual: diemensions 21x14x10mm. Great orientation, with "flow lips" on the backside to the shield. STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330334399912 Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!! Kind regards, Frederic Beroud http://www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/) From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Fri Jun 12 11:07:35 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:07:35 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fallen Message-ID: <001a01c9eb6f$85f2f840$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Another meteorite video... http://www.ehrensenf.de/linktipps/meteorit-genie%C3%9Ft-absturz Martin From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 12:07:18 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:07:18 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? In-Reply-To: References: <5AC18B5CBE8A4A028CF1247434481179@Platinum2> Message-ID: Hi Bob, Thanks for the update - I now see the correct message about the hosting switch. Good luck with the migration and I look forward to seeing the grand re-opening. :) Best regards, MikeG On 6/11/09, bcmeteorites wrote: > Mike, Sean, and List > The new Encyclopedia of Meteorites is still in the final configuration > stages and you should > have received the following message: > "Web site is currently off line. > We are moving the website to our new hosting provider. It will take a few > days. > We expect be back with our new version on June 15, 2009. > Thank you for understanding!" > > The site should be up and fully functional soon! > > Bob Falls > "Part of the crew working on new Encyclopedia of Meteorites" > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Sean T. > Murray > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:48 PM > To: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? > > > Looks like the asp is gone for login... I tried to access the root and got > an error... it could be because it expects the asp, and they never added a > redirect for the default... > > Server Error in '/' Application. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Required permissions cannot be acquired. > Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the > current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information > about the error and where it originated in the code. > > Exception Details: System.Security.Policy.PolicyException: Required > permissions cannot be acquired. > > Source Error: > > An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web > request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can > be identified using the exception stack trace below. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" > To: "Meteorite List" > Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:40 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Encyclopedia of Meteorites down? > > >> Hi Listees! >> >> About 2 hours ago, I was uploading photos and entries into my >> collection on the Encyclopedia of Meteorites site, and then I stopped >> to go run an errand. When I came back about 10 minutes ago, I tried >> going back to the Encyclopedia site and continue entering my >> collection - now the site is giving some weird error message. Is >> anyone else having the same problem? Is it leftover bugs from the >> switchover in software? >> >> BTW, the new interface looks and behaves great in all other respects. >> Nice job to Norbert and crew for pulling it off. :) >> >> Best regards and clear skies, >> >> MikeG >> >> >> -- >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jun 12 13:01:39 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:01:39 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fallen In-Reply-To: <001a01c9eb6f$85f2f840$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <001a01c9eb6f$85f2f840$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <4A3289F3.50706@meteoritesusa.com> Awesome! Martin Altmann wrote: > Another meteorite video... > > http://www.ehrensenf.de/linktipps/meteorit-genie%C3%9Ft-absturz > > > Martin > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From illaenus at wp.pl Fri Jun 12 13:04:31 2009 From: illaenus at wp.pl (Tomasz Jakubowski) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:04:31 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Esquel slice Message-ID: <4a328a9fd7eab2.89145973@wp.pl> Dear List Members, I have nice Esquel transparent slice for sale, weight 102.3 grams. Size 130x81x2 mm. Photos are here : http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/Esquel1023GramsSlcie# Also, 1146 grams of hand chosen, complete Gao-Gunie specimens (more than 200 not cleaned individuals!) : http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/GaoS# If You are interest please write mo my email address : illaenus at gmail.com Kind Regards Tomasz Jakubowski IMCA #2321 ---------------------------------------------------- 19 Mi?dzynarodowy Festiwal Teatralny MALTA, Pozna? 23-27/06. W programie m.in. Nine Inch Nails i Jane's Addiction z Peaches. - Szczeg??y: http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fcorto.www.wp.pl%2Fas%2Fnin.html&sid=763 From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jun 12 13:20:04 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:20:04 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? In-Reply-To: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> Hi Listees, The story has gone worldwide fast... The reports are merely repeating what the original report stated and from what I can see there is no verification... Skeptical? Is anyone else researching this? Maybe one of our German friends on-list might lend a hand and call the local paper there that first broke the story and see if they can get an interview with the boy to help confirm or verify what actually happened? ---------------------------------------------- Yahoo News UK: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090612/tod-boy-hit-by-meteorite-travelling-at-3-870a197.html Space.com: http://www.space.com/news/090612-boy-hit-by-meteorite.html FoxNews.com http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525992,00.html SkyNews.com http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Boy-Hit-On-Arm-By-White-Hot-Meteorite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos=World_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251_Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot Daily Telegraph: Australia http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25625253-5012895,00.html --------------------------------------------- Has there been confirmation yet? If... And this is a BIG IF. If this is a real story and th boy really did get hit with a meteorite there could be more meteorite on th ground. This would be a very famous fall to recover if it turns out to be verifiable! Can anyone confirm? Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA Meteorites USA wrote: > Hi all, > > This just in... > > Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. > > ------------------------------------------ > > "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing > 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." > > Meteor hits boy on way to school > Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET > > ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, > and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche > Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on > my hand.? > > The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but > Blank knew something special had happened to him. > > ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from > the heat as it went by me,? he said. > > After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a > sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from > his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school > with him. > > ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His > parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. > > Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested > the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble > is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. > > Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. > > SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html > > ------------------------------------------- > > Another site reports: > > SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky > > SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. > A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the > sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white > cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm > cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it > and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? > Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. > > SOURCE: > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news-ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > > > -------------------------------------------- > > So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? > > Anyone else have any info? > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 13:30:24 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:30:24 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites in situ In-Reply-To: <1195869.159541244392268269.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> References: <1195869.159541244392268269.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Message-ID: Hi Svend and List! I finally got a chance to sit down and read this excellent article. Outstanding job. Very good photos as well. Thanks for sharing this. :) Best regards, MikeG On 6/7/09, Meteorite-Recon.com wrote: > Good evening everybody, > > Those of you dedicated to the search and recovery of meteorites from hot > deserts might be interested in a little feature on some common > characteristics of these finds. A number of in situ images are included: > > Part 1: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_1.htm > > Part 2: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/desert_meteorites_2.htm > > Thanks for your interest. > > Cheers > > Svend > > -- > www.meteorite-recon.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Fri Jun 12 13:34:33 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:34:33 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? In-Reply-To: <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Ja but they're changing the story to make it more interesting. Read from U.K. "Chemical tests on the rock have now proved it is from outer space. Ansgar Korte, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: "It's a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and scientists." And here is the original, they're referring to: http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/essen/2009/6/9/news-122291315/de tail.html Where Korte is quoted:" If it's really a true meteorite, then the specimen will have a certain value for collectors and mineralogists" And in the following he recommends places, where the stone could be tested, whether it is a meteorite. That story of course is rubbish. A prank, not more. Martin Btw. it seems to be a boy... -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Meteorites USA Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Juni 2009 19:20 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? Hi Listees, The story has gone worldwide fast... The reports are merely repeating what the original report stated and from what I can see there is no verification... Skeptical? Is anyone else researching this? Maybe one of our German friends on-list might lend a hand and call the local paper there that first broke the story and see if they can get an interview with the boy to help confirm or verify what actually happened? ---------------------------------------------- Yahoo News UK: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090612/tod-boy-hit-by-meteorite-travelling-at-3 -870a197.html Space.com: http://www.space.com/news/090612-boy-hit-by-meteorite.html FoxNews.com http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525992,00.html SkyNews.com http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Boy-Hit-On-Arm-By-White-Hot-Mete orite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos=W orld_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251_ Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot Daily Telegraph: Australia http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25625253-5012895,00.html --------------------------------------------- Has there been confirmation yet? If... And this is a BIG IF. If this is a real story and th boy really did get hit with a meteorite there could be more meteorite on th ground. This would be a very famous fall to recover if it turns out to be verifiable! Can anyone confirm? Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA Meteorites USA wrote: > Hi all, > > This just in... > > Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. > > ------------------------------------------ > > "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing > 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." > > Meteor hits boy on way to school > Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET > > ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, > and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche > Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on > my hand.? > > The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but > Blank knew something special had happened to him. > > ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from > the heat as it went by me,? he said. > > After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a > sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from > his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school > with him. > > ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His > parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. > > Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested > the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble > is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. > > Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. > > SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html > > ------------------------------------------- > > Another site reports: > > SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky > > SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. > A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the > sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white > cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm > cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it > and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? > Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. > > SOURCE: > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news- ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > > > -------------------------------------------- > > So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? > > Anyone else have any info? > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From waltbranch at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 12 14:27:56 2009 From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:27:56 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fallen References: <001a01c9eb6f$85f2f840$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <4A3289F3.50706@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <9F27A442975A494CBF45AF09EBB434FE@yourf78bf48ce2> That is neat. My 10 year old loved it! -Walter Branch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" To: Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fallen > Awesome! > > > Martin Altmann wrote: >> Another meteorite video... >> >> http://www.ehrensenf.de/linktipps/meteorit-genie%C3%9Ft-absturz >> >> >> Martin >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From korotev at wustl.edu Fri Jun 12 15:01:08 2009 From: korotev at wustl.edu (Randy Korotev) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:01:08 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Goran Lindfors Message-ID: <200906121859.n5CIxLO00118@levee.wustl.edu> Several list members have contacted me saying that they recieved a message from Mr. Goran Lindfors of Sweden staing that I had done a chemical analysis of his alleged lunar meteorites "showing [them] to be of perfect Lunar origin !!!" Here's the full story: http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m098.htm Bottom line: The chemical composition of Mr. Lindfors rocks is perfectly consistent with a terrestrial origin but totally inconsistent with a lunar origin. ~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+ Randy L. Korotev Research Professor Washington University in Saint Louis Department of Earth & Planetary Sciences Everything you need to know about lunar meteorites: http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites.htm From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 15:04:36 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:04:36 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Goran Lindfors In-Reply-To: <200906121859.n5CIxLO00118@levee.wustl.edu> References: <200906121859.n5CIxLO00118@levee.wustl.edu> Message-ID: Hi List, Is this guy up to his old tricks again? He must figure if he casts out the bait enough times, someone will swallow it. Is there nothing the authorities can do on the Swedish side? Surely mail fraud is illegal over there as well. Best regards, MikeG On 6/12/09, Randy Korotev wrote: > Several list members have contacted me saying that they recieved a > message from Mr. Goran Lindfors of Sweden staing that I had done a > chemical analysis of his alleged lunar meteorites "showing [them] to > be of perfect Lunar origin !!!" > > Here's the full story: > > http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m098.htm > > Bottom line: The chemical composition of Mr. Lindfors rocks is > perfectly consistent with a terrestrial origin but totally > inconsistent with a lunar origin. > > > ~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+~+ > Randy L. Korotev > Research Professor > Washington University in Saint Louis > Department of Earth & Planetary Sciences > > Everything you need to know about lunar meteorites: > http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites.htm > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From grf2 at verizon.net Fri Jun 12 15:21:20 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:21:20 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fallen References: <001a01c9eb6f$85f2f840$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <7265894055B44FC7B0460FAEA9008A20@ASUS> Finally, indisputable validation of panspermia! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Altmann" To: Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 11:07 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fallen > Another meteorite video... > > http://www.ehrensenf.de/linktipps/meteorit-genie%C3%9Ft-absturz > > > Martin > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Fri Jun 12 16:11:53 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:11:53 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 12, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_12_2009.html __________________________ **************Shop Dell?s full line of Laptops now starting at $349! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221881320x1201406166/aol?redir=http:%2F%2 Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215218036%3B37264217%3Bz) From mlblood at cox.net Fri Jun 12 18:12:18 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:12:18 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q In-Reply-To: <9F27A442975A494CBF45AF09EBB434FE@yourf78bf48ce2> Message-ID: Re: Mayo Belwa Please contact me off list if you have any for sale or know Anyone who does..... Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it costs So much? RSVP Thanks, Michael From mlblood at cox.net Fri Jun 12 20:12:17 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:12:17 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to Mike G. for the following: ----- " Mayo is a witnessed fall aubrite and the majority of it sits in the Nigerian Geological Survey Office. Relatively little is in collections. US Nat His in Washington has less than 200 grams and American Nat His in New York has about 600. The Chicago Field Museum only has 15 grams...... it's one of those obscure falls of a single stone and the main mass is locked up. You can probably count the private dealers in the entire world with this fall on one hand." ----------------- While the bulk of this post is, to the best of my knowledge, Accurate, there is only one other dealer has ANY and she got it from me! (.6g) AND THAT IS THE ONLY PIECE I HAVE EVER SEEN (got it in a trade over a decade ago from a fellow with excellent reputation who dealt with the few "honest" dealers out there (there were only about 6 in Those days). Several have contacted me to inform me she had this .6g piece, But I already knew that. All of this happened so very long ago, I had no Idea the value of the piece I had. However, I now have a 2 gram specimen that came from the Oscar Monnig Collection at TCU and INCLUDES THE CARD that came with it. If anyone has any interest or any idea what it is worth or would like to see The photo, please contact me off list. Best wishes, Michael > From: Michael Blood > Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:12:18 -0700 > To: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q > > Re: Mayo Belwa > Please contact me off list if you have any for sale or know > Anyone who does..... > Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it costs > So much? > RSVP > Thanks, Michael > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mail at mhmeteorites.com Fri Jun 12 20:16:06 2009 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 00:16:06 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa Message-ID: <2063960140-1244852175-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-36080571-@bxe1050.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Ron Farrell has some :) ------Original Message------ From: Michael Blood Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com To: Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa Sent: Jun 12, 2009 6:12 PM Thanks to Mike G. for the following: ----- " Mayo is a witnessed fall aubrite and the majority of it sits in the Nigerian Geological Survey Office. Relatively little is in collections. US Nat His in Washington has less than 200 grams and American Nat His in New York has about 600. The Chicago Field Museum only has 15 grams...... it's one of those obscure falls of a single stone and the main mass is locked up. You can probably count the private dealers in the entire world with this fall on one hand." ----------------- While the bulk of this post is, to the best of my knowledge, Accurate, there is only one other dealer has ANY and she got it from me! (.6g) AND THAT IS THE ONLY PIECE I HAVE EVER SEEN (got it in a trade over a decade ago from a fellow with excellent reputation who dealt with the few "honest" dealers out there (there were only about 6 in Those days). Several have contacted me to inform me she had this .6g piece, But I already knew that. All of this happened so very long ago, I had no Idea the value of the piece I had. However, I now have a 2 gram specimen that came from the Oscar Monnig Collection at TCU and INCLUDES THE CARD that came with it. If anyone has any interest or any idea what it is worth or would like to see The photo, please contact me off list. Best wishes, Michael > From: Michael Blood > Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:12:18 -0700 > To: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q > > Re: Mayo Belwa > Please contact me off list if you have any for sale or know > Anyone who does..... > Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it costs > So much? > RSVP > Thanks, Michael > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 21:15:27 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:15:27 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Oriented UNWA Diamonds in the Rough - Photos Message-ID: Hi List! I thought I would share some oriented stones from my UNWA box. Here are 3 unclassified stones. The biggest I call the "Briquette" because it's shape reminds me of a charcoal briquette. (Cosmic Kingsford?) It weighs 90 grams and has many chondrules visible on the surface. There is just enough crust on it remaining to reveal the delicate flowlines radiating away from the leading face and towards the broken backside. It's a pity this stone arrived to me broken - it would have been nice to have the bubbly backside, instead there is a portion of the backside and a remnant of rollover lip - the rest is exposed matrix that is coated with wind polished desert varnish. 90 gram oriented briquette profile view with flowlines - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/flowlines-biscuit.jpg Another view of the briquette - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/oriented-biscuit-1.jpg Notice the plentiful chondrules - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/oriented-biscuit-a.jpg The second stone is a tiny bullet or mushroom shape. It has a prominent rollover lip and bubbly backside texture. Any traces of flowlines on the leading face or edge have been removed by weathering. Some fine rivulets are just visible on the backside, but they don't come out well in photos and are better seen with a loupe. This unclassified stone weighs 4.15 grams. Tiny bullet - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/bullet-side.jpg Bullet leading face - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/bullet-front.jpg Bullet backside - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/bullet-rear.jpg Lastly, I have an unclassified heat shield stone. This stone weighs 16 grams and has a classic "bubbly" backside, partial rollover rim, and faint remnants of flowlines near the lip. Heatshield leading face - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/shield-front.jpg Heatshield backside - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/oriented/shield-rear-2.jpg The 90-gram briquette is a keeper, but I would trade the 2 smaller stones if the offer is right. If anyone is interested, contact me offlist. Regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 21:54:39 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:54:39 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite type/fall dealer pricing list Message-ID: Hi List, A while back, someone on the list published a list of prices that various dealers charge for certain meteorite types and falls. As I recall, one paid about $5 and received a copy via email. Can someone point me to the author or a copy of the report. I'd like to see/buy. :) Best regards, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 12 22:17:29 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:17:29 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for small Brenhams Message-ID: Hello All, Does anyone have small pieces, 1 gram or less of the Brenham pallasite? It does not neccessarily have to be sliced or/and etched. Small fragments may do. Just enough to impress but I don't want to spend a lot. I may add a coat of lacquer if I think they may rust or on your recommendation. I have a friend at work who has seen the show, Meteorite Men ( I haven't seen it yet), and has shown an interest in meteorites. He watches shows on Discovery, Science and History Channel on meteorites so may be a bit more knowledgable than most on the subject. At least he knows who Bob Haag, Geoff and Steve are. I have also given him and his brother stones that I had extras in the past. His brother also works there and is his partner so I can't give just one person a gift. Who knows if one or the other might get more serious in the hobby? Btw, they both think I'm a bit nuts when I tell them my collection is approaching 400 localities. Maybe not a good thing to tell them since it is so addicting. Please contact me off list for prices. My email address should be on top of this post. I'm open to other pallasites or anything else if the Brenham is not available. Thanks. Carl _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 From mikewren at gilanet.com Sat Jun 13 00:41:57 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:41:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: #3 June- NEW- GRIFFITH Summary- Many Smaller Pieces Added- By Popular Demand! Message-ID: <4E92A990-50CA-4F62-886E-768CE502E473@gilanet.com> Hello I decided to use up one of my ads for the month June for this second announcement concerning my New Griffith Meteorite. I have had at least 15 requests for smaller slices, especially under 10 grams. Well, I spent 6 hours today cutting, polishing and creating smaller affordable slices. When these smaller slices are gone-that is it. I will not be cutting any more down. Please take this opportunity to get yours now. http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From info at mcomemeteorite.it Sat Jun 13 00:54:14 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 06:54:14 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa Message-ID: <4a3330f6.34c.52b3.282569575@webmaildh4.aruba.it> just 2 days ago we have take some photos via SEM of Diopside crystals present in a cavity of my Mayo Belwa piece http://i43.tinypic.com/14l27x1.jpg http://i44.tinypic.com/2yxjh4l.jpg http://i42.tinypic.com/20pa88i.jpg and this crystals of probably Molybdenite http://i43.tinypic.com/oh6xzk.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/9pri0x.jpg Matteo ----- Original Message ----- Da : "Matt Morgan" A : "Michael Blood" , meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com, "Meteorite List" Oggetto : Re: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa Data : Sat, 13 Jun 2009 00:16:06 +0000 > Ron Farrell has some :) > ------Original Message------ > From: Michael Blood > Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > To: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa > Sent: Jun 12, 2009 6:12 PM > > Thanks to Mike G. for the following: > ----- > " Mayo is a witnessed fall aubrite and the majority of it > sits in the Nigerian Geological Survey Office. Relatively > little is in collections. US Nat His in Washington has > less than 200 grams and American Nat His in New York has > about 600. The Chicago Field Museum only has 15 > grams...... it's one of those obscure falls of a single > stone and the main mass is locked up. You can probably > count the private dealers in the entire world with this > fall on one hand." ----------------- > While the bulk of this post is, to the best of my > knowledge, Accurate, there is only one other dealer has > ANY and she got it from me! (.6g) AND THAT IS THE ONLY > PIECE I HAVE EVER SEEN (got it in a trade over a decade > ago from a fellow with excellent reputation who dealt with > the few "honest" dealers out there (there were only about > 6 in Those days). Several have contacted me to inform me > she had this .6g piece, But I already knew that. All of > this happened so very long ago, I had no Idea the value of > the piece I had. > However, I now have a 2 gram specimen that came > from the Oscar Monnig Collection at TCU and INCLUDES THE > CARD that came with it. If anyone has any interest or any > idea what it is worth or would like to see The photo, > please contact me off list. > Best wishes, Michael > > > > > From: Michael Blood > > Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:12:18 -0700 > > To: Meteorite List > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q > > > > Re: Mayo Belwa > > Please contact me off list if you have any for sale > > or know Anyone who does..... > > Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it > > costs So much? > > RSVP > > Thanks, Michael > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > Matt Morgan > Mile High Meteorites > http://www.mhmeteorites.com > P.O. Box 151293 > Lakewood, CO 80215 USA > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.org Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com From mlblood at cox.net Sat Jun 13 07:11:15 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 04:11:15 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] RSVP re Info needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have info for Sonny Clary & Pete Sugar Right now. I have periodically needed email addresses To pass on info to many, many people on my Friends Page. Of course, I also need everyone who was on my Sales List. As you may recall, I lost ALL email information just before Tucson. I have asked for everyone to email me their email Address so I can contact them as needed, but NO ONE Has done so. Many people are missing out on communications >From me - many of which would be to their own benifit. Please email your email address to me with "Email Address" In the "Subject" box. Thanks, Michael From jnbran at verizon.net Sat Jun 13 10:03:44 2009 From: jnbran at verizon.net (JASON PHILLIPS) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 09:03:44 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: 100kg Brenham In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello List, I am offering for sale a world class meteorite specimen that would enhance even some of the finest museums in the world. It is a 100 kg Brenham complete individual that I got from Steve Arnold about two years ago. It displays orientation and was found by Steve Arnold and Dr. Ebel of the American Museum of Natural History. It is very stable with no rusting problems, at all, and is an all around great looking specimen. I am looking to let it go for much less than even the wholesale price, and most assuredly cheaper than any other pallasite around. If you check out eBay it has been selling for $2-$10/gram in sliced form and this specimen is only a fraction of the lower end. It comes with a letter of authenticity from Steve Arnold, in situ pictures of Dr. Ebel and Steve retrieving it, and a dark cherry wooden stand. If you are interested in discussing this specimen and desire to see pictures please contact me. Interesting trades will also be considered. Take Care and Thanks, Jason Phillips Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com 217-832-4505- telephone From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat Jun 13 11:04:13 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 11:04:13 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : Meteorite Garage Sale! - UNWA, Impactites, Impact Glasses, More Books! Message-ID: Hi Listees! This weekend only (ends Monday morning) - I am having a 25%-off sale on everything in my store. New Items : (remember - you get 25% off the prices shown - discount shows up at checkout) Dark "crackly" crust UNWA stone - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126503/Big-110-gram-Fresh-Black-Crust-Stone-Meteorite_779707.html HUGE Sudbury Shattercone - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126511/HUGE-Sudbury-Crater-Shattercone-Museum-quality-Specimen_782979.html MAPS Journals - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/152033/MAPS--Journal-of-Meteoritics-Planetary-Science--Apr-2009_784436.html http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/152033/MAPS--Journal-of-Meteoritics-Planetary-Science--Feb-2009_780197.html http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/152033/MAPS--Journal-of-Meteoritics-Planetary-Science--Jan-2009_780189.html Sudbury Black Onaping - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126511/Polished-Slice-of-Sudbury-Black-Onaping--Impactite_782985.html Ries Flaedle Bomb - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126511/Ries-Crater--Glass-Flaedle-Impact-Bomb--Impactite_782982.html Stones from the Stars meteorite book (signed by author) - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/152033/Stones-from-the-Stars--The-Unsolved-Mysteries-of-Meteorites_780173.html Don't forget - I have digital scales, rare earth magnets, and jeweler's loupes - http://www.galactic-stone.com/products/Meteorite-Supplies_126515/? Lastly - I have several eBay auctions running that will close today and tomorrow (Sunday). eBay Highlights include - Meteorite Collector's Toolkit - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290322804459 Moon Rock & Mars Rock Display Set - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290322798650 Silicated Campo del Cielo slice - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290322799917 Thin-sliced tektite slice (closing in just 3 hours!) - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290322464181 TO GET THE ONLINE STORE DISCOUNT - USE THIS COUPON CODE AT CHECKOUT - "metlist" (the coupon code is case sensitive - all one word and all lowercase) http://www.galactic-stone.com Thanks for looking and clear skies! MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From spacerocksinc at aol.com Sat Jun 13 18:45:13 2009 From: spacerocksinc at aol.com (spacerocksinc at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:45:13 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: Large GAO - 757 grams Message-ID: <2063465927-1244933018-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-643328890-@bxe1120.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Taking offers on the following: http://www.spacerocksinc.com/Gao_sale.html Thanks for looking, Michael Darrell Johnson Thumbed from my BlackBerry From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Sat Jun 13 18:53:35 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 17:53:35 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Sale Meteorite Auctions ending on ebay this weekend and new Specimens added, Lake Murray, Oklahoma, Norton County, Miles-Australia, Tatahouine, plus Mighei, and Murchison Message-ID: <033301c9ec79$ca1288a0$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Hello fellow Meteorite Collectors I hope you're having a Great Weekend! Please click on the link here to my seller's page for some great meteorites I've listed today and some that end this weekend Thanks for looking, clear skies and happy hunting Brian Cox searchingforfun is my ebay User Id......please click on the link below to go to my seller's page with all the meteorites below http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/searchingforfun_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MURCHISON Meteorite Australia .010 g COA IMCA RARE CM2 (270404738684) MURCHISON Meteorite Australia .013 g COA IMCA RARE CM2 (270404742792) NWA 753 Meteorite Morocco .292 g COA IMCA RARE R3.9 (280355604633) CHINGA Meteorite USSR 119 g COA IMCA Iron Ataxite IVB-U (270404778560) MIGHEI Meteorite Ukraine 1.418g COA IMCA CM2 VERY RARE (280355684922) NORTON COUNTY Meteorites 2.20g COAs IMCA AUBRITE Crust (270407214171) TATAHOUINE Meteorite The Green Met 1.992g COA IMCA ADIO (270407242094) MILES Meteorite Iron IIE Sili Australia .199g COA IMCA (280357412012) GHUBARA Meteorites 13.47g COA IMCA Xenolithic CRUST (280357784040) LAKE MURRAY Meteorite 2.37 g COA IMCA IIAB RARE NICE (270408239282) thanks for looking! Brian IMCA # 6387 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sat Jun 13 22:15:57 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:15:57 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 13, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_13_2009.html __________________________ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377049x1201454365/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) From tett at rogers.com Sat Jun 13 22:30:39 2009 From: tett at rogers.com (Tettenborn) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:30:39 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 13, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A3460CF.6040706@rogers.com> As we look into the clouds we can see many images and so I see one in this sky of stone. (Sorry, have been reading Audin and Hardy tonight) Anyone else see the angry man? Cheers! tett SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com wrote: > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_13_2009.html > > __________________________ > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377049x1201454365/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JunestepsfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From freequarks at gmail.com Sat Jun 13 23:37:07 2009 From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 21:37:07 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <822da19a0906132037w3c0b1b87ia696b33a6ee5a223@mail.gmail.com> Hello Michael, I have a 6g+ fragment of Mayo Belwa. Here's a pic. http://www.geocities.com/planetwhy/mayobelwa.jpg best, Martin On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > Thanks to Mike G. for the following: > ----- > " Mayo is a witnessed fall aubrite and the majority of it sits in the > Nigerian Geological Survey Office. ?Relatively little is in > collections. ?US Nat His in Washington has less than 200 grams and > American Nat His in New York has about 600. ?The Chicago Field Museum > only has 15 grams...... it's one of those obscure falls of a single > stone and the main mass is locked up. ?You can probably count the > private dealers in the entire world with this fall on one hand." > ----------------- > ? ? ? ?While the bulk of this post is, to the best of my knowledge, > Accurate, there is only one other dealer has ANY and she got it from me! > (.6g) AND THAT IS THE ONLY PIECE I HAVE EVER SEEN (got it in a > trade over a decade ago from a fellow with excellent reputation who dealt > with the few "honest" dealers out there (there were only about 6 in > Those days). Several have contacted me to inform me she had this .6g piece, > But I already knew that. All of this happened so very long ago, I had no > Idea the value of the piece I had. > ? ? ? ?However, I now have a 2 gram specimen that came from the Oscar > Monnig Collection at TCU and INCLUDES THE CARD that came with it. > If anyone has any interest or any idea what it is worth or would like to see > The photo, please contact me off list. > ? ? ? ?Best wishes, Michael > > > >> From: Michael Blood >> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:12:18 -0700 >> To: Meteorite List >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q >> >> ?Re: Mayo Belwa >> ? ? Please contact me off list if you have any for sale or know >> Anyone who does..... >> ? ? ? ? Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it costs >> So much? >> ? ? ? ? RSVP >> ? ? ? ? Thanks, Michael >> >> From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Sun Jun 14 02:45:25 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:45:25 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for small Brenhams Message-ID: Hello All, Thank you all for the overwhelming response to my requests for small Brenhams to give to my friends. Glad to see so many people trying to help me. Special thanks to Greg Catterton for his great deal. Carl _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Sun Jun 14 02:52:39 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 08:52:39 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa In-Reply-To: <822da19a0906132037w3c0b1b87ia696b33a6ee5a223@mail.gmail.com> References: <822da19a0906132037w3c0b1b87ia696b33a6ee5a223@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090614085239.gbp6v9ee674k008g@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr> Hi MIchael, I got my first Mayo Belwa from Bob Haag at the Denver show 1994. It was a 1.47 g fragment with a polished window and about 30% crust. I sold it in 2005 when I acquired, as upgrade, a superb 3.91 g full slice, 40x27x1.5 mm (but no apparent crust around) from Sergey Vasiliev (I believe in Ensisheim). The 40x27 mm surface is even more spectacular in color & clast contrast than Cumberland Falls. Short description from my collection catalog: "dominant gray with lots of white clasts, some cracks/holes"... Unfortunately no pic on hand. Regards, Zelimir Dark Matter a ??crit??: > Hello Michael, > > I have a 6g+ fragment of Mayo Belwa. > > Here's a pic. > http://www.geocities.com/planetwhy/mayobelwa.jpg > > best, > > Martin > > > > On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Michael Blood wrote: >> Thanks to Mike G. for the following: >> ----- >> " Mayo is a witnessed fall aubrite and the majority of it sits in the >> Nigerian Geological Survey Office. ?Relatively little is in >> collections. ?US Nat His in Washington has less than 200 grams and >> American Nat His in New York has about 600. ?The Chicago Field Museum >> only has 15 grams...... it's one of those obscure falls of a single >> stone and the main mass is locked up. ?You can probably count the >> private dealers in the entire world with this fall on one hand." >> ----------------- >> ? ? ? ?While the bulk of this post is, to the best of my knowledge, >> Accurate, there is only one other dealer has ANY and she got it from me! >> (.6g) AND THAT IS THE ONLY PIECE I HAVE EVER SEEN (got it in a >> trade over a decade ago from a fellow with excellent reputation who dealt >> with the few "honest" dealers out there (there were only about 6 in >> Those days). Several have contacted me to inform me she had this .6g piece, >> But I already knew that. All of this happened so very long ago, I had no >> Idea the value of the piece I had. >> ? ? ? ?However, I now have a 2 gram specimen that came from the Oscar >> Monnig Collection at TCU and INCLUDES THE CARD that came with it. >> If anyone has any interest or any idea what it is worth or would like to see >> The photo, please contact me off list. >> ? ? ? ?Best wishes, Michael >> >> >> >>> From: Michael Blood >>> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:12:18 -0700 >>> To: Meteorite List >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q >>> >>> ?Re: Mayo Belwa >>> ? ? Please contact me off list if you have any for sale or know >>> Anyone who does..... >>> ? ? ? ? Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it costs >>> So much? >>> ? ? ? ? RSVP >>> ? ? ? ? Thanks, Michael >>> >>> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From p.marmet at sunrise.ch Sun Jun 14 05:22:14 2009 From: p.marmet at sunrise.ch (Peter Marmet) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:22:14 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa In-Reply-To: <20090614085239.gbp6v9ee674k008g@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr> References: <822da19a0906132037w3c0b1b87ia696b33a6ee5a223@mail.gmail.com> <20090614085239.gbp6v9ee674k008g@w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <871799a20906140222q53fe79e4n34d3444fd9598eb9@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, you can see my two Mayo Belwa pieces here : http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ ...just below "Wabar"... Peter From info at mcomemeteorite.it Sun Jun 14 06:32:40 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:32:40 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa Message-ID: <4a34d1c8.310.173c.1690047720@webmaildh3.aruba.it> my 1.51 gr. of Mayo Belwa, http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/2383/mayobelwa4ge.jpg matteo ----- Original Message ----- Da : Peter Marmet A : Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Oggetto : Re: [meteorite-list] More on Mayo Belwa Data : Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:22:14 +0200 > Hi All, > > you can see my two Mayo Belwa pieces here : > http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ ...just below "Wabar"... > > Peter > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.org Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com From wpiatek at indy.rr.com Sun Jun 14 08:59:11 2009 From: wpiatek at indy.rr.com (Wendy Piatek) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 08:59:11 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Michael . This is the first time I have tried downloading pics to the web. Let me know if it works. You should see a 68.1g Mayo Belwa . Aubrites are among my favorites as they are very unusual especially when compared to other specimens. They are rare as a group (non Antarctic) with only 11, mainly falls, and somewhat older with 1948 being the recent. Many would have been lost for good if they were not observed falls as nobody including myself would have taken them for meteoritic and water would have quickly destroyed them. How Mount Egerton and Shallowater got in the group is a mystery macroscopically to me. http://picasaweb.google.com/jaypiatek/MayoBelwa I should be posting my other aubrites shortly I do have access to several other MB specimens if desired. No micros though. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Blood" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q > Re: Mayo Belwa > Please contact me off list if you have any for sale or know > Anyone who does..... > Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it costs > So much? > RSVP > Thanks, Michael > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From wpiatek at indy.rr.com Sun Jun 14 10:06:58 2009 From: wpiatek at indy.rr.com (Wendy Piatek) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:06:58 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q In-Reply-To: <2677F0B75A864E469694F9114B96BB2E@JeffPC> References: <2677F0B75A864E469694F9114B96BB2E@JeffPC> Message-ID: <8D32C0D00A1446B9ADB1FA459A7B0184@JayPC> Thanks Jeff . I just uploaded a few more pics. Still got to find my Shallowater. I changed the title to Aubrites so the last link will not work.. http://picasaweb.google.com/jaypiatek/Aubrites Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Kuyken" To: "Wendy Piatek" Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q > Hi Jay, > > WOW! To say those specimens are stunning would be the understatement of > the year! Thanks for sharing the pics! > > Cheers, > > Jeff > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wendy Piatek" > To: "Michael Blood" > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 10:59 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q > > >> Hi Michael . This is the first time I have tried downloading pics to the >> web. Let me know if it works. >> You should see a 68.1g Mayo Belwa . Aubrites are among my favorites as >> they are very unusual especially when compared to other specimens. They >> are rare as a group (non Antarctic) with only 11, mainly falls, and >> somewhat older with 1948 being the recent. >> Many would have been lost for good if they were not observed falls as >> nobody including myself would have taken them for meteoritic and water >> would have quickly destroyed them. How Mount Egerton and Shallowater got >> in the group is a mystery macroscopically to me. >> >> http://picasaweb.google.com/jaypiatek/MayoBelwa >> >> I should be posting my other aubrites shortly >> >> I do have access to several other MB specimens if desired. No micros >> though. >> Jay >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Michael Blood" >> To: "Meteorite List" >> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 6:12 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mayo Belwa Q >> >> >>> Re: Mayo Belwa >>> Please contact me off list if you have any for sale or know >>> Anyone who does..... >>> Do you know why it is so very scarce and why it costs >>> So much? >>> RSVP >>> Thanks, Michael >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > From pierremariepele at yahoo.fr Sun Jun 14 10:21:27 2009 From: pierremariepele at yahoo.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pel=E9_Pierre-Marie?=) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:21:27 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mongolian meteorites Message-ID: <509208.84841.qm@web23002.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hello, I'm back from an expedition in Altai (Bayan-Olgii province), in western Mongolia. While in Ulan-Bator, I coulnd't miss the National History Museum with a room dedicated to meteorites. Sorry for the bad quality of the images but it was forbidden to photography so I couldn't use a flash... Page is very heavy also. http://www.meteor-center.com/expes/mongolie2009_meteorites.asp See you in Ste Marie aux Mines soon ! Best regards, Pierre-Marie Pele www.meteor-center.com From majbaermann at web.de Sun Jun 14 11:57:11 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:57:11 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Mongolian meteorites Message-ID: Thank you, Pierre-Marie, for your interesting photo-report from Ulan Bator. Hard to believe that your expedition in the Altai region was dedicated to meteorites too? Best regards, Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pel? Pierre-Marie" To: Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mongolian meteorites > > Hello, > > I'm back from an expedition in Altai (Bayan-Olgii province), in western > Mongolia. > > While in Ulan-Bator, I coulnd't miss the National History Museum with a > room dedicated to meteorites. Sorry for the bad quality of the images but > it was forbidden to photography so I couldn't use a flash... Page is very > heavy also. > > http://www.meteor-center.com/expes/mongolie2009_meteorites.asp > > See you in Ste Marie aux Mines soon ! > > Best regards, > > Pierre-Marie Pele > www.meteor-center.com > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at tektiteinc.com Sun Jun 14 11:58:02 2009 From: info at tektiteinc.com (info at tektiteinc.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:58:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - SALE 50% Off all Rizalites on TektiteInc.com SALE Message-ID: <60752.127.0.0.1.1244995082.squirrel@syd-srv07.ezyreg.com> Hello all, Many thanks to those who visited my site during the sale. Many Rizalites have been sold over the last week and there's still a little left on my site. Please note that I will NOT be adding anymore Rizalites to my site once the remaining have been sold. Yes, I am running out! However, I will still be listing a few quality specimens on evilBay every now and then. Please see the link below that directs you to a page where all the available specimens are located. This will save you time in looking for the specimens that have not been sold yet. http://tektiteinc.com/forsale.html Also, please have a look at my evilBay listings, I have some choice specimens ending in a few hours time. Thanks again. Cheers, Desmond Leong IMCA #2254 http://www.TektiteInc.com http://stores.ebay.com/Tektite-Inc http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtektiteinc-dot-com From info at tektiteinc.com Sun Jun 14 12:03:03 2009 From: info at tektiteinc.com (info at tektiteinc.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:03:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-50% Off all Rizalites on TektiteInc.com SALE Message-ID: <45590.127.0.0.1.1244995383.squirrel@syd-srv07.ezyreg.com> Hello all, Many thanks to those who visited my site during the sale. Many Rizalites have been sold over the last week and there's still a little left on my site. Please note that I will NOT be adding anymore Rizalites to my site once the remaining have been sold. Yes, I am running out! However, I will still be listing a few quality specimens on evilBay every now and then. Please see the link below that directs you to a page where all the available specimens are located. This will save you time in looking for the specimens that have not been sold yet. http://tektiteinc.com/forsale.html Also, please have a look at my evilBay listings, I have some choice specimens ending in a few hours time. Thanks again. Cheers, Desmond Leong IMCA #2254 http://www.TektiteInc.com http://stores.ebay.com/Tektite-Inc http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtektiteinc-dot-com From beardownbob at gmail.com Sun Jun 14 13:12:29 2009 From: beardownbob at gmail.com (Bob Holmes) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:12:29 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: ebay auction ending tomorrow Message-ID: <2bc48ad00906141012s59ca6929p9e7d773a767f5dbc@mail.gmail.com> Hello All- For those interested, I have a few items ending tomorrow. http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/bobholmes Cheers, Bob From darryl at dof3.com Sun Jun 14 15:02:02 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:02:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Query / Zucoloto Message-ID: Might anyone have Maria Elizabeth (Betty) Zucoloto's email? The email I've had bounced-back. Thanks so much, Darryl From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sun Jun 14 15:18:32 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 14 Jun 2009 19:18:32 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Query Message-ID: Hello Darryl and List, At the end of this article in Meteorite Magazine: ZUCOLOTTO E. (2006) Angra dos Reis (METEORITE, May 2006-12-2, pp. 12-16). ..her email address looks like this: mezucolotto at globo.com Maybe this one works! Best Bernd From darryl at dof3.com Sun Jun 14 15:46:53 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:46:53 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Query In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0AE65CEA-CBA4-4D59-B7AF-3FF8B7D927DE@dof3.com> In what is certainly a frequent invocation on this list..... "Bernd, thank you so very much!" All best / Darryl On Jun 14, 2009, at 3:18 PM, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > Hello Darryl and List, > > At the end of this article in Meteorite Magazine: > > ZUCOLOTTO E. (2006) Angra dos Reis (METEORITE, May 2006-12-2, pp. > 12-16). > > ..her email address looks like this: > > mezucolotto at globo.com > > Maybe this one works! > > Best Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 14 17:18:37 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] prehistoric artifact made of meteorites Message-ID: <189300.23110.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Pierre, Here is what I have on the topic but not the details you seek perhaps. During parts of Desert Shield, I was in Israel and visited the shop of a widow who's husband was an artifact broker/collector. This was right across the street from the US Embassy which was then in Tel Aviv. I've never found what became of her and her shop. She had no information as to where and when this artifact I am about to describe was acquired, as she like many other citizens were packing up and leaving given the impending hostilities. In her possession but alas beyond the "strictly US Dollar cash" I had on hand, was an embellished artifact which I instantly recognized as a small iron meteorite about 2 inches long with substantial terrestrial age probably less than a 10,000 but more than 2000. It appeared to have been partially press or hammer forged to the extent that a deep pocket had been forced into the center. The rim showed cracks and distortions pointing to the center pocket. The pocket itself had a perfect symmetry. In the pocket was a goldmetal-lined, half-cup and within the cup was a ruby red, dimly transparent glass(?) cabochon-like stone mounted flat face up. On the face was a "rampant horse" engraved into the face showing traces of gold leaf in the channels. I understand the horse theme dates the artifact to the Hellenistic Period(332-315 bce). The local Hellenistic Period was several hundred years after the two, three or four middle eastern "Iron Ages" depending on the historian. I recall some discussion that the first iron age was thought made possible using a major iron meteorite fall and when that material was exhausted there was a break until terrestrial iron ore mining and smelting came of age. I understand it is well established that many Damascus Steel Knives and gun barrels(?) were made from meteoric iron--much as most Pennsylvanian and Kentuckian Long Rifles were made from the Cosby Creek Tennessee iron. I have personally seen two Georgia Tektites which had been knapped into scrapers. From this we can infer that humans are opportunistic and given to using gifts from the heavens in whatever techniclogical or artistic means they had. Speaking of middle eastern artifacts, somewhere in my stored collection I have ordinary flint, knapped artifacts from Saudi Arabia collected during Desert Shield. Owing to creation-timeline beliefs in which these artifacts fall well before the creation of the earth, in Saudi Logic, they simply do not exist, nor did any prehistoric human activity. I forget the exact phrase they use to describe the inland uninhabited regions where these were found but, it too includes a logic that the land or the ancient tribes also do not exist. Perhaps someone remembers the terminology? The non-existent old ones? This is the same slick logic-system that when confronted with cultural conflicts regarding US Service women driving in a country where women are not allowed to drive vehicles, declared them "men" for the duration thus defusing the conflict. I think western politicians must have picked that trick up from the Saudis. Elton --- On Tue, 6/9/09, rochette at cerege.fr wrote: > From: rochette at cerege.fr > Subject: [meteorite-list] prehistoric artefact made of meteorites > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 6:05 AM > (sorry for not including a subject in > my previous post) > dear list members > > for a research project I am looking for meteorites from the > Sahara or Dhofar* that may have been used by prehistoric > man. If you think you have such man shaped artefact in your > NWAs (or other collection area) please contact me off-list; > we can expertise it. > regards *and more generally Africa and Middle East > -- Pierre From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun Jun 14 17:49:11 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:49:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Oktibbeha County Super Ataxite? ...was The tale of a falling star Message-ID: <963993.53226.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> The Oktibbeha Meteorite is a "triple hitter" for unusual meteorites and unfortunately only a few grams are still in existence. I believe someone asked about other meteorites which were found in entombed, in burial mounds, etc. The Oktibbeha County, Mississippi meteorite found in 1857 in a burial mound (just West of Columbus, Mississippi in what would have likely been Creek Nation Territory). The mineral(sic)Oktibbehite was "identifed" in this find but no mineral data appears to exist for it. Here is the link for a descriptive mineralogy page: Even more preplexing is the microprobe analysis from the 1960's which shows a Ni content of 60%. That might be the record! Elton Here is the text: SHORT COMMUNICATIONS MINERALOGICAL MAGAZINE, MARCH I972, VOL. 38, PP. 623-26 The Oktibbeha County iron meteorite TAYLOR (I857) first described the unique Oktibbeha County iron meteorite, whichwas found in an Indian burial mound in Mississippi. It was originally egg-shapedand weighed about 15o g, but was split along a fissure by a sledge-hammer blow,dividing it into two nearly equal parts, one of which was forged, while the other was subjected to chiseling, sawing, and filing. According to Hey (I966) about 46 g now remains. Analyses by Taylor and by Cohen 0892) show a nickel content of about6o %, the highest recorded in a meteorite. Hey lists another iron of similar nickel content (La Fayette), but none now remains. The next highest is the Santa Catherina iron with about 34 % Ni. Doubts have been expressed from time to time about the authenticity of the Oktibbeha County meteorite, because of its extraordinary nickel content, although a natural terrestrial origin is improbable, since native nickel-iron (awaruite) from N. American localities contains too much nickel (74 to 77 % according to Palache et al., T944). Perry (I942, I944) observed phosphide inclusions (identified by sodium picrate etching) in a specimen of Oktibbeha County from the American Museum of Natural History, New York, which resembled rhabdite (= schreibersite, (Fe, Ni)~P) found in ordinary iron meteorites. The identity of similar inclusions in a specimen from the Academy of Natural Sciences, Philadelphia (no. Ioo67), has now been confirmed as schreibersite by electron microprobe analysis. Fig. I shows scanning pictures of 'rhabdite' in this specimen, taken with the phosphorus Ka X-ray line. The formation of euhedral rhabdite-like schreibersite requires the very slow cooling typical of iron meteorites. X-ray diffraction shows the metal to consist of large, well-oriented taenite (9,-nickeliron) single crystals, giving further indication of slow cooling. In ordinary iron meteorites rhabdite occurs as orientated needles in kamacite (a-nickel-iron), and is thought to have formed below 50o ~ The Oktibbeha County 'rhabdite' probably formed at a considerably higher temperature, because diffusion is much slower in taenite than in kamacite at a given temperature. There appears to be a definite orientation relationship between the 'rhabdite' and the face-centred cubic taenite in Oktibbeha County, comparable with that existing between rhabdite and body-centred cubic kamacite in ordinary irons. The Philadelphia specimen consists of a slice probably passing approximately through the centre of the original ovoid mass. At the edge the original schreibersite has been heated to form rounded metal-phosphide eutectoid areas. The microprobe scanning pictures in fig. 2 show how the heating effect decreases with distance from distance of a few ram. In the centre of the slice schreibersite is unaltered. This effect is almost certainly due to the thermal gradient produced by shortlived but intense surface heating caused by atmospheric friction, and is therefore further evidence for the meteoritic nature of the specimen. Similar effects are found in other iron meteorites. The British Museum (Natural History) specimen (B.M. 34595) appears to be an artificially heated piece of material originally similar to the New York and Philadelphia specimens. The metal is of granular appearance in the microscope, and X-ray diffraction indicates disorientated granular taenite. Small irregular areas of barely resolvable metal-phosphide eutectoid distributed throughout the specimen are presumably relics of the schreibersite in the unaltered material. There is no evidence of a thermal gradient. Photomicrographs by Perry (i94z, ~944) of a specimen from Harvard University show a similar microstructure. Table I gives microprobe analyses of the B.M. (N.H.) and Philadelphia specimens, together with earlier analyses. Neither the metal nor the schreibersite were found to vary appreciably in composition in the Philadelphia specimen, outside the peripheral heated zone. The metal in the B.M. (N.H.) specimen was only slightly variable in composition. TABL~ I. Analyses of the Oktibbeha County meteorite Previous analyses Microprobe analyses Phil. IOO67 B.M. 34595 Taylor Cohen metal schreiber- metal metal-(I857) (I892) site phosphide eutectoid Ni 59"7 62-0 ~.I 65q 6r.o 65"3 37'7 37"z 39"0 20-0 38-0 22-5 Cu 0"9 o"3 0"6 -- 0-8 -- Co o'4 o'7 o'5 o'4 o'5 o'4 P o.I o.z o.o I4-6 o.o Iz.I 98"8 IOO'4 ioo.2 Io0.1 IOO'3 lO0"3 The schreibersite in the Philadelphia specimen corresponds approximately to(Fe0.vNi2.3) P, which is the most nickel-rich schreibersite recorded. The association of very nickel-rich schreibersite with taenite of similar nickel content is in accord with the phase diagram (Doan and Goldstein, I969), in which schreibersite and taenite in equilibrium contain about the same wt. % Ni. Conclusion. The Philadelphia specimen of Oktibbeha County is undoubtedly meteoritic. Theories of the origin of iron meteorites should therefore take into account the existence of meteoritic metal containing 6o % Ni. Acknowledgements. This work was carried out in the Mineralogy Dept., British Museum (Natural History). I am indebted to Mrs. J. M. Hall for assistance with the electron microprobe analyses, and to Dr. R. J. Davis for X-ray diffraction data. I am very grateful to the Director of the Academy of Natural Sciences, Philadelphia, Dr. H. R. Roberts, for the loan of the specimen. Dept. of Geophysics and Geochemistry S.J.B. REED Australian National University Canberra, Australia REFERENCES COHEN (E.), 1892. Ann. Naturhist. Hofmus. Wien, 7, 146. DOAN (A. S.) and GOLDSTEIN (J. I.), 1969. In MILLNAN (P. M.), Meteorite Research, 763. Reidel(Dordrecht). HEY (M. H.), I966. Catalogue of Meteorites, 3rd edn, Brit. Mus. (Nat. Hist.), London. PALACI-IE (C.), BERMAN (H.), and FRONDEL (C.), I944. Dana's System of Mineralogy, 7th edn, 1, Wiley, New York. PERRY (S. H.), I942. Photomierographs of Meteoric Irons, 3, Adrian, Michigan. -- I944. The Metallography of Meteoric Iron, U.S. Nat. Mus. Bull. 184, Washington. TAYLOR (W. J.), 1857. Amer. Journ. Sci. ser. z, 24, 293. [Manuscript received I I January 197t] 9 Crown copyright reserved. From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sun Jun 14 17:50:32 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 14 Jun 2009 21:50:32 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Oktibbeha County Super Ataxite? ...was The tale of a falling star ... Top Ten re: Ni content Message-ID: "a Ni content of 60%. That might be the record!" Hi Elton and List, Yes, it it! Here are the top ten sorted by decreasing nickel content: Oktibbeha County - 60.1 Lafayette (iron) - 59.4 Dermbach - 42.1 Santa Catharina - 33.8 Tishomingo - 32.5 Twin City - 30 Lime Creek - 29.5 Willow Grove - 27.9 Barbianello - 27.1 San Cristobal - 25.7 Bernd - 0% Ni content ;-) From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sun Jun 14 18:26:59 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:26:59 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Oktibbeha County Super Ataxite? ...was The tale of a falling star ... Top Ten re: Ni content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9feaa049cf742a023958ef287a47b998.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi Bernd: I have not been able to find an "average" amount of Ni in humans (seems to depend on a lot of things like what kind of oil you consume, how far from Sudbury you live, etc.--micrograms per gram of body weight). But it is important. >From Copperwiki: "Nickel deficiency is rare in humans as nickel requirements are low and availability high from dietary sources. A condition of nickel deficiency has not been clearly defined in humans, though it has been demonstrated in animals. Nickel deficiency in these cases has been shown to affect a number of functions. The symptoms observed in animal studies include depressed growth, reproductive changes and altered lipid and glucose levels in the blood. Other changes observed in a nickel deficient state include, changes in skin color, coarse hair, hormone imbalance and abnormal bone growth. Liver function is impaired and iron metabolism is affected, resulting in poor absorption of iron. Metabolism of some other nutrients like calcium and vitamin B12 is also altered due to nickel deficiency." So, yes, you do have a nickel content! Larry > "a Ni content of 60%. That might be the record!" > > Hi Elton and List, > > Yes, it it! Here are the top ten sorted by decreasing nickel content: > > Oktibbeha County - 60.1 > Lafayette (iron) - 59.4 > Dermbach - 42.1 > Santa Catharina - 33.8 > Tishomingo - 32.5 > Twin City - 30 > Lime Creek - 29.5 > Willow Grove - 27.9 > Barbianello - 27.1 > San Cristobal - 25.7 > > > Bernd - 0% Ni content ;-) > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Sun Jun 14 18:52:05 2009 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 15:52:05 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Auctions ending in about an hour Message-ID: <004301c9ed42$bd6f6b30$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Hello all For your consideration http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/nakhladog_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZ Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 From cynapse at charter.net Sun Jun 14 20:14:18 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:14:18 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Oktibbeha County Super Ataxite? ...was The tale of a falling star ... Top Ten re: Ni content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com> On 14 Jun 2009 21:50:32 UT, you wrote: >Bernd - 0% Ni content ;-) Oh, you are some percent Ni. The 0% is likely a rounding error. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel#Biological_role From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Sun Jun 14 19:44:09 2009 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:44:09 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Farmville, NC Meteorite for Sale In-Reply-To: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com> References: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com> Message-ID: <9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> Good Evening, I am pleased to offer a rare fall that, to my knowledge, has never been offered for sale before: Farmville, North Carolina, H4, Fell March 9, 1934. The pieces are a bit special as coming from the USNM and also being shown in a famous photographic catalog. A copy of the original USNM card is provided with each specimen. If interested in acquiring a piece of this rare fall and locality for your collection, please contact me off-list for complete details, photos, etc.. I have pieces for all budgets, so don't be shy! Best regards, Mike Bandli IMCA #5765 From erikfwebb at msn.com Sun Jun 14 21:28:00 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:28:00 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 13, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thats like waving a steak in front of a dog. [Erik] ---------------------------------------- > From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com > Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:15:57 -0400 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 13, 2009 > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_13_2009.html > > __________________________ > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377049x1201454365/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JunestepsfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sun Jun 14 23:32:06 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - EBAY ITEMS ENDING IN 24 HOURS - Message-ID: <992046.67757.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi to all, here is my AD for the week. I have several items ending in the next 24 hours on ebay. There some real nice deals on assorted achondrites to be had. Many are at almost 1/2 the normal market value. Many of the items for sale include free shipping to anywhere in the USA. You can view the items here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1 Items include: Tatahouine - Diogenite NWA 4734 - Lunar "Pristine Magmatic Rock" at $1000 per gram or less! Camel Donga - Eucrite (whole stones with flow lines, oriented, slices and endcuts at about $30 per gram) These are some top quality samples at very reasonable prices! NWA 5480 - Olivine Diogenite with outstanding polished surface Thanks for looking! Greg C. IMCA 4682 www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com From zilla237 at hotmail.com Sun Jun 14 23:59:28 2009 From: zilla237 at hotmail.com (Dean Miera) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:59:28 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 13, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow! that is an awesome meteorite! I am sure glad I live fairly close to Portales. Can't wait till fall comes around. > From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com > Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:15:57 -0400 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 13, 2009 > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_13_2009.html > > __________________________ > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377049x1201454365/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JunestepsfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 From erikfwebb at msn.com Mon Jun 15 00:07:21 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:07:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Nate's Franconia L Chondrite Message-ID: I hunted this Thursday through Sunday at Franconia. I met up with Nate who had been there since Monday and he had already had plenty of luck on both the North and South sides of the highway. He showed me a pretty big L chondrite he found while looking for big H's on the Southside. The exact weight of Nate's find is pending but it is probably over 100 grams. Who really knows which strewn field it pairs to without classifying it, but it would be a shame to cut it. Here are some pics of it for any non believers: http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a.jpg http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a1.jpg http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a2.jpg http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a3.jpg http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a4.jpg http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a5.jpg http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a6.jpg I'll post more pictures of the hunt in the following days. [Erik] From zilla237 at hotmail.com Mon Jun 15 00:22:03 2009 From: zilla237 at hotmail.com (Dean Miera) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:22:03 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Nate's Franconia L Chondrite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Erik, give Nate my congrats on a nice 100+ grammer. A very nice piece indeed!! I'm sure yours will be just as nice. Good hunting!! Congrats to both of you!! Dean > From: erikfwebb at msn.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:07:21 -0700 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Nate's Franconia L Chondrite > > > I hunted this Thursday through Sunday at Franconia. > I met up with Nate who had been there since Monday and > he had already had plenty of luck on both the North and > South sides of the highway. > He showed me a pretty big L chondrite he found while looking > for big H's on the Southside. > The exact weight of Nate's find is pending but > it is probably over 100 grams. > Who really knows which strewn field it pairs > to without classifying it, but it would be a shame to cut it. > > > Here are some pics of it for any non believers: > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a1.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a2.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a3.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a4.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a5.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a6.jpg > > I'll post more pictures of the hunt in the following > days. > > [Erik] > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 From mexicodoug at aim.com Mon Jun 15 04:36:53 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 04:36:53 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Oktibbeha County Super Ataxite? ...was The tale of a falling star ... Top Ten re: Ni content In-Reply-To: <9feaa049cf742a023958ef287a47b998.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> References: <9feaa049cf742a023958ef287a47b998.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Message-ID: <8CBBBAB91BBFDE1-A98-3213@webmail-mh35.sysops.aol.com> Darren rote: ">Bernd - 0% Ni content ;-) Oh, you are some percent Ni. The 0% is likely a rounding error. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel#Biological_role" Hi Darren, I don't think there was any concern with about the floating point arithmetic facing programmers with the 0%. Bernd was precise and you may have noted the smile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_(arithmetic) Larry wrote: "I have not been able to find an "average" amount of Ni in humans (seems to depend on a lot of things like what kind of oil you consume, how far from Sudbury you live, etc.--micrograms per gram of body weight). " Hi Larry, "A 70 kg [note: American] reference man contains 10 mg of nickel, giving an average body concentration of 0.1 ppm... [Larry: This is 0%; to two significant figures it would be 0.000014% or 0.14 ppm's, or 140 nanograms per gram, though the context favors only one] Nickel does not bioaccumulate to a great extent in animals... [note: if you overload, it becomes toxic when the body cannot keep up removing it as quickly, especially in the liver and kidneys] Nickel sensitivity is a form of delayed hypersensitivity that is found in 10?20% of the general population..."* [note: this is at low levels, once triggered, you get the allergy to much lower concentrations for life] Meteoroholics, If you wish to get a daily allowance of meteorite in your diet, this means (ignoring all the o ther heavy elements haha), that a reasonable risk of powdered meteorite to add to a liquid nourishment, eat or snort is 10 mg of an iron meteorite, or 100 mg of a chondrite, and not more than six of them a week, keeping in mind that ataxites are reserved for only a special class of meteorite hunters and excluded for the masses at these levels). The reference Larry quoted says: "A condition of nickel deficiency has not been clearly defined in humans..." i.e., it's not a good idea to take nickel supplements of any kind, unless, well, uh, you know... Best wishes, Doug (Ni - 0% except when lucky) *ref.: Finalized Toxilogical Profile PB2006-100005 August, 2005. Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (A sister agency to the CDC in Atlanta) Department of Health and Human Services. U.S. Government Publication (by Congressional Mandate) -----Original Message----- From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu To: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sun, Jun 14, 2009 5:26 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Oktibbeha County Super Ataxite? ...was The tale of a falling star ... Top Ten re: Ni content Hi Bernd: I have not been able to find an "average" amount of Ni in humans (seems to depend on a lot of things like what kind of oil you consume, how far from Sudbury you live, etc.--micrograms per gram of body weight). But it is important. >From Copperwiki: "Nickel deficiency is rare in humans as nickel requirements are low and availability high from dietary sources. A condition of nickel deficiency has not been clearly defined in humans, though it has been demonstrated in animals. Nickel deficiency in these cases has been shown to affect a number of functions. The symptoms observed in animal studies include depressed growth, reproductive changes and altered lipid and glucose levels in the blood. Other changes observed in a nickel deficient state include, changes in skin color, coarse hair, hormone imbalance and abnormal bone growth. Liver function is impaired and iron metabolism is affected, resulting in poor absorption of iron. Metabolism of some other nutrients like calcium and vitamin B12 is also altered due to nickel deficiency." So, yes, you do have a nickel content! Larry > "a Ni content of 60%. That might be the record!" > > Hi Elton and List, > > Yes, it it! Here are the top ten sorted by decreasing nickel content: > > Oktibbeha County - 60.1 > Lafayette (iron) - 59.4 > Dermbach - 42.1 > Santa Catharina - 33.8 > Tishomingo - 32.5 > Twin City - 30 > Lime Creek - 29.5 > Willow Grove - 27.9 > Barbianello - 27.1 > San Cristobal - 25.7 > > > Bernd - 0% Ni content ;-) > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > h ttp://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mafer at imagineopals.com Mon Jun 15 08:42:14 2009 From: mafer at imagineopals.com (mafer at imagineopals.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:42:14 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Auctions ending a couple days In-Reply-To: <004301c9ed42$bd6f6b30$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> References: <004301c9ed42$bd6f6b30$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Message-ID: I have a few auctions up on Ebay if your interested. http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/refamat_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_sopZ12 Mark Ferguson From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 15 12:21:26 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:21:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie In-Reply-To: <9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> References: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com> <9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> Message-ID: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon Jun 15 11:36:23 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:36:23 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> Hi Martin, Thanks again for the link... This story is running rampant across the whole internet. You can't surf the web without running into this story. And worse... It's all merely the same thing being repeated and retold all over the web from the original story. No verification, no reliable test results, and no fact checking at all. Just rampant rumor... It's dumb that people can't find out what really happened before posting this story all over. Even Discovery magazine posted something about it, though in a debunking sort of way. Normally I would have posted an article on my site about this by now on something this significant, but without any verification it's pointless. Jeez, if it's real then I'm totally stoked! This would be an historical event to say the least. But either way someone needs to do some investigation and post the truth about it regardless of what that truth turns out to be. Too bad I don't speak German, I'd be all over this story! Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA Martin Altmann wrote: > Ja but they're changing the story to make it more interesting. > > Read from U.K. > > "Chemical tests on the rock have now proved it is from outer space. > > Ansgar Korte, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: "It's > a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and > scientists." > > > And here is the original, they're referring to: > > http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/essen/2009/6/9/news-122291315/de > tail.html > > > Where Korte is quoted:" If it's really a true meteorite, then the specimen > will have a certain value for collectors and mineralogists" > > And in the following he recommends places, where the stone could be tested, > whether it is a meteorite. > > > That story of course is rubbish. > A prank, not more. > > Martin > > Btw. it seems to be a boy... > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Meteorites USA > Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Juni 2009 19:20 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? > > Hi Listees, > > The story has gone worldwide fast... The reports are merely repeating > what the original report stated and from what I can see there is no > verification... > > Skeptical? Is anyone else researching this? Maybe one of our German > friends on-list might lend a hand and call the local paper there that > first broke the story and see if they can get an interview with the boy > to help confirm or verify what actually happened? > > ---------------------------------------------- > > Yahoo News UK: > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090612/tod-boy-hit-by-meteorite-travelling-at-3 > -870a197.html > > Space.com: > http://www.space.com/news/090612-boy-hit-by-meteorite.html > > FoxNews.com > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525992,00.html > > > SkyNews.com > http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Boy-Hit-On-Arm-By-White-Hot-Mete > orite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos=W > orld_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251_ > Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot > eorite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos= > World_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251 > _Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot> > > Daily Telegraph: Australia > http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25625253-5012895,00.html > > --------------------------------------------- > > Has there been confirmation yet? If... And this is a BIG IF. If this is > a real story and th boy really did get hit with a meteorite there could > be more meteorite on th ground. This would be a very famous fall to > recover if it turns out to be verifiable! > > Can anyone confirm? > > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > > > > > Meteorites USA wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> This just in... >> >> Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> >> "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing >> 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." >> >> Meteor hits boy on way to school >> Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET >> >> ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, >> and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche >> Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on >> my hand.? >> >> The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but >> Blank knew something special had happened to him. >> >> ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from >> the heat as it went by me,? he said. >> >> After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a >> sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from >> his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school >> with him. >> >> ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His >> parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. >> >> Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested >> the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble >> is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. >> >> Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. >> >> SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> >> Another site reports: >> >> SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky >> >> SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. >> A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the >> sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white >> cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm >> cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it >> and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? >> Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. >> >> SOURCE: >> >> > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news- > ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > >> -------------------------------------------- >> >> So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? >> >> Anyone else have any info? >> >> > > > From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon Jun 15 12:08:57 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:08:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <4A367219.8040200@meteoritesusa.com> Very interesting article on this, kind of puts things into perspective. ----------------------------------ARTICLE------------------------------------ SOURCE: http://spacerubble.blogspot.com/2009/06/bad-reporting-on-meteor-strike.html SUNDAY, JUNE 14, 2009 Bad Reporting on Meteor strike If you've been watching the news this week, you might have seen a fantastic report about a boy in Germany who was amazingly struck by a small fragment of the universe! According to initial reports, the pea-size meteorite was all that was left of the rock from space after mostly burning up in the atmosphere. The initial report, copied by all the on-line mainstream news organizations I looked at, stated the meteorite was traveling at a speed of 30,000 mph, with a loud bang and bright light struck a glancing blow to the boy, bouncing off him and burying itself into the road where it created a foot-wide mini-crater. At first read, this is an amazing tale of survival just removed from a possible horrible death! But lucky for me, I paid attention to my science and math studies in school. Did you? Do you recognize the warning signs of sensationalist reporting? For fun, go outside and find a pea-sized stone. Now, wander around and locate a nice patch of sandy soil. We won't even bother with a hard surface at this point. Next, the fun part! With all your might, throw that little stone into the sand and see what kind of crater it makes. With luck, you will see a tiny crater and watch some of the ejected material fly out. Now try it on a driveway with asphalt. No such result, eh? Imagine with your mind now, how much force a stone that size would have to impart to create a foot-wide crater in that surface. But wait- the asteroid WAS traveling at 30,000 mph, wasn't it? THAT should certainly give it enough energy! Hmmm. Wait a minute though. Just how fast IS 30,000 mph? This is where your schooling should have come in handy. We need something going REALLY fast - like a bullet- to make a comparison. Your average US Marine fighting in Afghanistan is shooting a .223 caliber bullet from his rifle. The military .223 round is a little bigger than pea-sized, but good enough for our purposes. The .223 flies out the barrel at 2750 feet/second. If you know your math and how to tell time, we can compare these object speeds. 2750 f/s is very close to a half mile per second (2640 ft). So let's use that for easy comparison. .5 mi./sec. times 60 seconds = 30 miles/minute. That bullet is going about 30 miles in one minute. Now, 30 mi./min. times 60 minutes = 1800 miles/hour. So, our bullet is traveling about 1800 mph. According to initial reports, the boy was hit in the hand. Now, I know that a .223 traveling 1800 mph hitting a boy's hand is going to do something more than leave a slight scar. If it doesn't take OFF his hand, he's going to lose a finger or AT LEAST go to the hospital for major surgery. But the meteorite was supposedly traveling 30,000 mph. As opposed to a bullet at 1800 mph. At that speed, I think the boy would not only lose his hand, but the energy from that fast an object would have probably torn off his arm- if not obliterating him and leaving a much larger smoking hole in the ground. No wonder there was a loud sound- A bullet leaves a large crack because it breaks the speed of sound, creating a shock wave (the boom) at about 760 mph. Well, the initial reports did say there was a foot sized crater, didn't they? Funny that- but while all the reports showed a smiling German boy holding his pea-sized rock, there were NO photos of the so-called crater... isn't that strange? Well, with all of this thinking, I began to immediately suspect the story was false. Looking at the story today, I find that amateur astronomers and meteor collectors have been doing their own sleuthing, and I may be justified in my doubts. Turns out that NO one has seen the so-called crater. And the supposed professional who examined the rock and declared it a meteorite, was a guy from the local public observatory. No professional space geologist has looked at this object yet. No one has ever known a small meteorite like this to have ever produced a small crater. The rules of Terminal Velocity show that these objects just ding onto the ground. It takes a stony or iron meteorite of significant weight to do damage such as the car damaged by a stony meteorite in New England a few years ago. So we have a boy, 14 years old, reporting this incident, which happened to himself, with no witnesses, no authentic verification of the object, and no "smoking hole"... are you getting the picture? The astronomical community is not convinced. And neither am I. Were you? POSTED BY MARK DAYMONT AT 11:54 AM --------------------------------------END ARTICLE--------------------------------------- Regards, Eric From minador at yahoo.com Mon Jun 15 12:14:32 2009 From: minador at yahoo.com (Mark Bowling) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:14:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Nate's Franconia L Chondrite Message-ID: <29144.7681.qm@web54407.mail.yahoo.com> Congrats to Nate!! I almost joined him on Saturday, but chickened out... o(;?D) Thanks for the shots Erik! Mark Vail, AZ --- On Sun, 6/14/09, Erik Fisler wrote: > From: Erik Fisler > Subject: [meteorite-list] Nate's Franconia L Chondrite > To: "meteorite-list" > Date: Sunday, June 14, 2009, 9:07 PM > > I hunted this Thursday through Sunday at Franconia. > I met up with Nate who had been there since Monday and > he had already had plenty of luck on both the North and > South sides of the highway.? > He showed me a pretty big L chondrite he found while > looking > for big H's on the Southside. > The exact weight of Nate's find is pending but > it is probably over 100 grams. > Who really knows which strewn field it pairs > to without classifying it, but it would be a shame to cut > it. > > > Here are some pics of it for any non believers: > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a1.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a2.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a3.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a4.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a5.jpg > http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/a6.jpg > > I'll post more pictures of the hunt in the following > days. > > [Erik] > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon Jun 15 12:26:22 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:26:22 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <009201c9edd6$064550c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Yep, but the headlines are changing, sometimes to a super-dramatic "Teen Survives direct hit from a 30,000 mph space rock" and also the details in the story get embroidered. Sometimes the boy was going home, sometimes he tried to catch the school bus. Completley new is, that his ears were ringing for hours after the fall happened. And his scar id getting longer, the "crater" broader and the "meteorite" faster and faster! (record I read was 250,000 mph). So far I remember only one article in English language, where a critical voice was heard - when somebody asked Darryll Pitt. A clarification or disclaimer we never will read. As after the news has lost its sensation and is getting old, it will be over. Like it was with the Grandma from UK, the girl from UK or Grampa's arbour burnt down by meteoritic fire in Germany, There you never heard about again. Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Meteorites USA [mailto:eric at meteoritesusa.com] Gesendet: Montag, 15. Juni 2009 17:36 An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? Hi Martin, Thanks again for the link... This story is running rampant across the whole internet. You can't surf the web without running into this story. And worse... It's all merely the same thing being repeated and retold all over the web from the original story. No verification, no reliable test results, and no fact checking at all. Just rampant rumor... It's dumb that people can't find out what really happened before posting this story all over. Even Discovery magazine posted something about it, though in a debunking sort of way. Normally I would have posted an article on my site about this by now on something this significant, but without any verification it's pointless. Jeez, if it's real then I'm totally stoked! This would be an historical event to say the least. But either way someone needs to do some investigation and post the truth about it regardless of what that truth turns out to be. Too bad I don't speak German, I'd be all over this story! Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA Martin Altmann wrote: > Ja but they're changing the story to make it more interesting. > > Read from U.K. > > "Chemical tests on the rock have now proved it is from outer space. > > Ansgar Korte, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: "It's > a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and > scientists." > > > And here is the original, they're referring to: > > http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/essen/2009/6/9/news-122291315/de > tail.html > > > Where Korte is quoted:" If it's really a true meteorite, then the specimen > will have a certain value for collectors and mineralogists" > > And in the following he recommends places, where the stone could be tested, > whether it is a meteorite. > > > That story of course is rubbish. > A prank, not more. > > Martin > > Btw. it seems to be a boy... > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Meteorites USA > Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Juni 2009 19:20 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? > > Hi Listees, > > The story has gone worldwide fast... The reports are merely repeating > what the original report stated and from what I can see there is no > verification... > > Skeptical? Is anyone else researching this? Maybe one of our German > friends on-list might lend a hand and call the local paper there that > first broke the story and see if they can get an interview with the boy > to help confirm or verify what actually happened? > > ---------------------------------------------- > > Yahoo News UK: > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090612/tod-boy-hit-by-meteorite-travelling-at-3 > -870a197.html > > Space.com: > http://www.space.com/news/090612-boy-hit-by-meteorite.html > > FoxNews.com > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525992,00.html > > > SkyNews.com > http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Boy-Hit-On-Arm-By-White-Hot-Mete > orite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos=W > orld_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251_ > Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot > eorite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos= > World_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251 > _Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot> > > Daily Telegraph: Australia > http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25625253-5012895,00.html > > --------------------------------------------- > > Has there been confirmation yet? If... And this is a BIG IF. If this is > a real story and th boy really did get hit with a meteorite there could > be more meteorite on th ground. This would be a very famous fall to > recover if it turns out to be verifiable! > > Can anyone confirm? > > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > > > > > Meteorites USA wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> This just in... >> >> Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. >> >> ------------------------------------------ >> >> "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing >> 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." >> >> Meteor hits boy on way to school >> Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET >> >> ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, >> and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche >> Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on >> my hand.? >> >> The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but >> Blank knew something special had happened to him. >> >> ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from >> the heat as it went by me,? he said. >> >> After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a >> sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from >> his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school >> with him. >> >> ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. His >> parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. >> >> Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested >> the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble >> is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. >> >> Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. >> >> SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> >> Another site reports: >> >> SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky >> >> SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. >> A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the >> sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white >> cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm >> cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it >> and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? >> Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. >> >> SOURCE: >> >> > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news- > ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > >> -------------------------------------------- >> >> So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? >> >> Anyone else have any info? >> >> > > > From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 15 14:43:15 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:43:15 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie References: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com><9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> Message-ID: <1218C9C170364773926468F9794674D5@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, Darren, List, The commentator who thinks this sets a new low for American television and astronomical science was obviously fortunate enough to have missed the series "Space 1999" (to name only one). Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:21 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really,really big pizza pie > http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Mon Jun 15 14:51:34 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:51:34 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Hilarious ad Message-ID: Hi list, This is a great ad. No need to take it seriously and say we focus on fakes more than the real thing. This is just for fun! http://providence.craigslist.org/clt/1221289678.html Tom **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) From stm at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 15 14:57:19 2009 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:57:19 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Farmville, NC Meteorite for Sale In-Reply-To: <9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> References: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com> <9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> Message-ID: <356E80808CF649339D77162BB912DE9D@Platinum2> Could be space related... Looks like a piece of the old "Horta" prop from Star Trek :) (http://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollywood/multimedia/2007/11/gallery_star_trek_monsters?slide=3) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bandli" To: Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:44 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Farmville, NC Meteorite for Sale > Good Evening, > > I am pleased to offer a rare fall that, to my knowledge, has never been > offered for sale before: Farmville, North Carolina, H4, Fell March 9, > 1934. > > The pieces are a bit special as coming from the USNM and also being shown > in > a famous photographic catalog. A copy of the original USNM card is > provided > with each specimen. > > If interested in acquiring a piece of this rare fall and locality for your > collection, please contact me off-list for complete details, photos, etc.. > I > have pieces for all budgets, so don't be shy! > > Best regards, > > Mike Bandli > IMCA #5765 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stm at bellsouth.net Mon Jun 15 15:04:05 2009 From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:04:05 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hilarious ad In-Reply-To: <356E80808CF649339D77162BB912DE9D@Platinum2> References: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com><9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> <356E80808CF649339D77162BB912DE9D@Platinum2> Message-ID: Somehow - don't ask how... that got attached to another email :) Should have been from this: Hi list, This is a great ad. No need to take it seriously and say we focus on fakes more than the real thing. This is just for fun! http://providence.craigslist.org/clt/1221289678.html Tom **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean T. Murray" To: "Mike Bandli" ; Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD: Farmville, NC Meteorite for Sale > Could be space related... > > Looks like a piece of the old "Horta" prop from Star Trek :) > (http://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollywood/multimedia/2007/11/gallery_star_trek_monsters?slide=3) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike Bandli" > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:44 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Farmville, NC Meteorite for Sale > > >> Good Evening, >> >> I am pleased to offer a rare fall that, to my knowledge, has never been >> offered for sale before: Farmville, North Carolina, H4, Fell March 9, >> 1934. >> >> The pieces are a bit special as coming from the USNM and also being shown >> in >> a famous photographic catalog. A copy of the original USNM card is >> provided >> with each specimen. >> >> If interested in acquiring a piece of this rare fall and locality for >> your >> collection, please contact me off-list for complete details, photos, >> etc.. I >> have pieces for all budgets, so don't be shy! >> >> Best regards, >> >> Mike Bandli >> IMCA #5765 >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon Jun 15 16:56:10 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:56:10 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: BLOWOUT! Ebay Items On Sale + Some Website Deals Message-ID: <4A36B56A.8080209@meteoritesusa.com> Hi Listees, Prices on all NWA meterorites we have listed in our Ebay Store have been SLASHED by as much as 66%! These meteorites must sell NOW! These deals are too good to pass up. They are not your ordinary NWA. All meteorites are premium quality whole stones, fragments, and or slices and ends cuts of low iron and high iron chondrite meteorite specimens that were hand picked by me. There are also some very large pieces including one very big 1459.8 Oriented Stone for only $423. A 100% fully crusted and thumbprinted 451.6g super dark crusted piece for only $225. And a very cool 950.7g stone which is probably an L type with a superbly colorful matrix full of densely packed chondrules of all different sizes. Price on this piece is only $349 Shipped in the US. Too many deals to list... You must see these meteorites. Those with questions or who would like info on how to get an additional 5% should contact me off-list or call me at 904-236-5394. 57 Ebay Items Bid Now & Good Luck! http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/freel3orn Payment through Paypal or credit card over the phone only. CALL TO ORDER: 904-236-5394 ---------------------------------------------------------- NOTICE: ALL ITEMS MUST BE PAID FOR WITHIN 24hrs OR WE WILL RESELL THE ITEM TO THE FIRST PERSON WHO PAYS CASH! 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http://cgi.ebay.com/21-0g-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-FROM-SAHARA-SLICE-NWA_W0QQitemZ250443447815 http://cgi.ebay.com/66-0g-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-FROM-SAHARA-SLICE-NWA_W0QQitemZ250443612187 http://cgi.ebay.com/103-3g-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-FROM-SAHARA-SLICE-NWA_W0QQitemZ250443612231 http://cgi.ebay.com/19-8g-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-FROM-SAHARA-SLICE-NWA_W0QQitemZ250443447724 http://cgi.ebay.com/19-5g-CHONDRITE-METEORITE-FROM-SAHARA-SLICE-NWA_W0QQitemZ260427837140 ---------------------------------------EBAY SALE--------------------------------------- .35/g For Premium Quality NWA in the "WHOLE STONE METEORITES, FRAGMENTS & END CUTS" Section on this page: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/stone-meteorites-for-sale.htm There are some exceptional pieces in this section of my site. Many are very large pieces worthy of classification and collection. 4963g (4.96 Kilo) Whole Individual: $1699 Shipped (USA) http://www.meteoritesusa.com/nwa-meteorites/unwa-4963g.htm ------------------------------------ TAMDAKHT: SALE: $1.50/g Blow Out Price! Buy All 3 Pieces 132.8g = $199 http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tamdakht-meteorite-for-sale.htm ------------------------------------ Enjoy... Call me at 904-236-5394 or contact me off-list for the best deals. Even deeper discounts available for bulk orders. -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From pgspears at cox.net Mon Jun 15 17:09:26 2009 From: pgspears at cox.net (Paul G. Spears) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:09:26 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject) Message-ID: <9BB5E9E82E6C4235A7658EFC38D7A361@COMPAQLAPTOP> Hi, list members: As a newcomer to the list, let me say that I have been impressed with the articles and comments I have read already. ?I am learning quickly that you members know your stuff, and that some of you might have a shot at becoming stand-up comedians if you ever want to change professions.? The repartee and camaraderie are delightful.? As I read the articles and follow the links, it strikes me that my only hope of becoming adequately knowledgeable about the significance and importance of meteorites is submersion in the books and exposure to the fields.? ? Concurrently with cracking the books, I am starting to acquire basic equipment for my first meteorite hunt.? With the experience most of you surely have had in using metal detectors, you may have found certain makes to be superior to others.? Any recommendations you may have for a quality detector would be greatly appreciated.? Also, I would like to try my hand at making a one-meter detector if anyone has instructions and specifications for them, or know who builds them.? Finally, I have a fairly good checklist of items needed in the field, but if you have a list that you have used to good advantage, it is likely much better than mine. I promise I will not burden you with repeated calls for help, but your geniality encourages me to make this request. It will better insure a proper start in my retirement to what I expect will be an interesting and worthy avocation.? Cordially, Paul G Spears From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 15 17:14:53 2009 From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:14:53 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <9BB5E9E82E6C4235A7658EFC38D7A361@COMPAQLAPTOP> Message-ID: Wow - you really are new to the list! ;-) some of you might have a shot at becoming > stand-up comedians if you ever want to change professions.? The repartee and > camaraderie are delightful.? A From ks1u at att.net Mon Jun 15 18:16:13 2009 From: ks1u at att.net (George Blahun Jr) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:16:13 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject) In-Reply-To: <9BB5E9E82E6C4235A7658EFC38D7A361@COMPAQLAPTOP> References: <9BB5E9E82E6C4235A7658EFC38D7A361@COMPAQLAPTOP> Message-ID: <1C2F83E2-F63A-427D-9532-54B5FFF60BD9@att.net> Paul: Welcome to the list. I normally read quietly, posting something every few months when the urge strikes. Everything you said is true, which makes this list one of my favorites. However, in addition to the immense knowledge and profound statements as well as cutting edge research and terrific bargains, you will also find an occasional brawl resembling a sixth grade schoolyard fight. I just wanted to give you a "heads up" on what some would call the downside of this list, but which I find "sociologically interesting". Without this caveat it might be similar to finding out as a child that your parents weren't perfect, like the first time I saw my normally calm dad give some other motorist the finger. Anyhow, I've been on this list for years, and unless I get kicked off for some reason (not very likely) I plan to be here for years to come. I'm sure you'll learn a lot and be entertained as well. George From darryl at dof3.com Mon Jun 15 19:55:20 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:55:20 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Oktibbeha County Super Ataxite? ...was The tale of a falling star ... Top Ten re: Ni content In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hiya. The following list is not quite up to date. Now sliding in at #4 with 34.5% Ni is Lovina (Bali) On Jun 14, 2009, at 5:50 PM, bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > "a Ni content of 60%. That might be the record!" > > Hi Elton and List, > > Yes, it it! Here are the top ten sorted by decreasing nickel content: > > Oktibbeha County - 60.1 > Lafayette (iron) - 59.4 > Dermbach - 42.1 > Santa Catharina - 33.8 > Tishomingo - 32.5 > Twin City - 30 > Lime Creek - 29.5 > Willow Grove - 27.9 > Barbianello - 27.1 > San Cristobal - 25.7 > > > Bernd - 0% Ni content ;-) > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 20:19:21 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:19:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] LDG on National Geographic Channel right now Message-ID: Heads up Listees! If you have digital cable, there is a documentary about Libyan Desert Glass on the National Geographic channel right now. (Nat Geo) Check your local listings. :) It's a good program. -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoritemike at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 21:02:45 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:02:45 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Unexpected Nininger Surprise - Millionaire Miner of the Milky Way! Message-ID: Hi Listees and Nininger-ites! I received a pleasant surprise in today's mail. It's a vintage men's pulp magazine called "Saga - the Magazine for Men" from December 1962. The cover has a John Wayne-esque Texan, cigar in mouth, standing in front of military jet. Cover stories include "Where the enslave Americans - an incredible report", "How to Write a Dirty Book - Biggest racket in the country", "Saga of the 1st Armored", and "Dogfights in Texas - All about the confederate Air Force". Nowhere on the cover is there any mention of the gem hidden inside this nostalgic 100 page pile of Cold War machismo. Pages of ads include cigarette (manly ones of course), fishing tackle, exercise bikes, smoking pipes, and the obligatory war surplus optics ads. Then there is the subject of this post - a 6 page article about Harvey Nininger entitled "Millionaire Miner of the Milky Way". The magazine has a small typeset, so there is a lot of Nininger information packed into this short article/bio/interview. In the article, Nininger recalls stories of hunting meteorites around the country, including Brenham and New Mexico. It also goes into Nininger's pre-meteorite days, his beginnings with hunting, and later chapters like the peak of his collecting and the American Meteorite Museum. I have uploaded some pics of the article and the photos in the article here. I will transcribe the captions for each photo link. - Nininger looking dapper in the field holding a magnet cane (no caption) - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/nininger/nininger-1.jpg ------------------------------------------- Nininger digging a hole - (caption reads - "To find meteorites, Nininger made cross bearings on every meteor sighting from dozens of witnesses.") http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/nininger/nininger-3.jpg ------------------------------------------------- 4 photos see captions - Clockwise from top - "Nininger's world famous meteorite museum in Sedona Arizona" "In the 1930's, Nininger and his shop assistant, the late R. S. Niswanger, developed a saw to cut meteorites" "In 1925, Nininger built his rolling cottage so he and his family could go meteorite hunting each summer." "Neatly displayed meteorite samples in Nininger's museum were found in 38 states and in 49 foreign countries." http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/nininger/nininger-2.jpg --------------------------------------- The cover of Saga Magazine, December 1962 - 35 cents : http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/nininger/saga-nininger.jpg ---------------------------------------- Enjoy! Best regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From cynapse at charter.net Mon Jun 15 22:35:11 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:35:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Unexpected Nininger Surprise - Millionaire Miner of the Milky Way! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:02:45 -0400, you wrote: >The cover of Saga Magazine, December 1962 - 35 cents : > >http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/nininger/saga-nininger.jpg > Nininger schmininger-- tell us how to write a dirty book. From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 05:53:26 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie Message-ID: <361315.80481.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Seriously, I'm in the wrong job. I've spent much of the last year putting together a mission to Mars game for our school. You can select individual crew members. For example, one is from the Kashmir region of India, one of her languages is a local dialect and her name is a traditional Kashmiri name, all carefully researched. If I'm capable of this level of attention to detail then how are the makers of "Impact" capable of getting something on the air that includes a fallen lunar meteorite crater that is so magnetic it disrupts a compass from a distance? I mean, if that's supposed to show some sort of research into meteorites it pays lipservice only. I want to go round and bite their ankles. And don't get me started on the meteors burning all the way to the ground or shooting down meteor fragments with F-15 fighters. ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!! At least Space 1999, had a the excuse of naievety to much of it. Anyone remember the scene in 3rd Rock From the Sun where they were laughing at Star Wars' depiction of space? "Impact" would have them in apoplexy. --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > From: Sterling K. Webb > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie > To: cynapse at charter.net, Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 7:43 PM > Hi, Darren, List, > > The commentator who thinks this > sets a new low for American television > and astronomical science was obviously > fortunate enough to have missed the > series "Space 1999" (to name only one). > > > Sterling K. Webb > ------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:21 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like > a really, really,really big pizza pie > > > > http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Tue Jun 16 08:42:16 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:42:16 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 16, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_16_2009.html __________________________ **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823265x1201398681/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From jan.hattenbach at gmx.de Tue Jun 16 10:11:34 2009 From: jan.hattenbach at gmx.de (Jan Hattenbach) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:11:34 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <009201c9edd6$064550c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> <009201c9edd6$064550c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <20090616141134.203940@gmx.net> Hello list, This story, in my very humble opinion, is rubbish. But I tried to convince myself and phoned the newspaper that has published it first. No detailled answer yet, the lady said "the stone is beeing inspected", did not know by whom. I will later try again to speak with one of the responsibles of the article. Will let you know if I learn something new! Cheers, Jan -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:26:22 +0200 > Von: "Martin Altmann" > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? > Yep, > > but the headlines are changing, sometimes to a super-dramatic "Teen > Survives > direct hit from a 30,000 mph space rock" > > and also the details in the story get embroidered. > Sometimes the boy was going home, sometimes he tried to catch the school > bus. Completley new is, that his ears were ringing for hours after the > fall > happened. > And his scar id getting longer, the "crater" broader and the "meteorite" > faster and faster! (record I read was 250,000 mph). > > So far I remember only one article in English language, where a critical > voice was heard - when somebody asked Darryll Pitt. > > A clarification or disclaimer we never will read. > As after the news has lost its sensation and is getting old, it will be > over. > > Like it was with the Grandma from UK, the girl from UK or Grampa's arbour > burnt down by meteoritic fire in Germany, > There you never heard about again. > > Best! > Martin > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Meteorites USA [mailto:eric at meteoritesusa.com] > Gesendet: Montag, 15. Juni 2009 17:36 > An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? > > Hi Martin, > > Thanks again for the link... > > This story is running rampant across the whole internet. You can't surf > the web without running into this story. And worse... It's all merely > the same thing being repeated and retold all over the web from the > original story. No verification, no reliable test results, and no fact > checking at all. Just rampant rumor... It's dumb that people can't find > out what really happened before posting this story all over. Even > Discovery magazine posted something about it, though in a debunking sort > of way. Normally I would have posted an article on my site about this by > now on something this significant, but without any verification it's > pointless. > > Jeez, if it's real then I'm totally stoked! This would be an historical > event to say the least. But either way someone needs to do some > investigation and post the truth about it regardless of what that truth > turns out to be. Too bad I don't speak German, I'd be all over this story! > > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > > > Martin Altmann wrote: > > Ja but they're changing the story to make it more interesting. > > > > Read from U.K. > > > > "Chemical tests on the rock have now proved it is from outer space. > > > > Ansgar Korte, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: > "It's > > a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and > > scientists." > > > > > > And here is the original, they're referring to: > > > > > http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/essen/2009/6/9/news-122291315/de > > tail.html > > > > > > Where Korte is quoted:" If it's really a true meteorite, then the > specimen > > will have a certain value for collectors and mineralogists" > > > > And in the following he recommends places, where the stone could be > tested, > > whether it is a meteorite. > > > > > > That story of course is rubbish. > > A prank, not more. > > > > Martin > > > > Btw. it seems to be a boy... > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > > Meteorites USA > > Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Juni 2009 19:20 > > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? > > > > Hi Listees, > > > > The story has gone worldwide fast... The reports are merely repeating > > what the original report stated and from what I can see there is no > > verification... > > > > Skeptical? Is anyone else researching this? Maybe one of our German > > friends on-list might lend a hand and call the local paper there that > > first broke the story and see if they can get an interview with the boy > > to help confirm or verify what actually happened? > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > > > > Yahoo News UK: > > > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090612/tod-boy-hit-by-meteorite-travelling-at-3 > > -870a197.html > > > > Space.com: > > http://www.space.com/news/090612-boy-hit-by-meteorite.html > > > > FoxNews.com > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525992,00.html > > > > > > SkyNews.com > > > http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Boy-Hit-On-Arm-By-White-Hot-Mete > > > orite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos=W > > > orld_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251_ > > Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot > > > > > eorite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos= > > > World_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251 > > _Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot> > > > > Daily Telegraph: Australia > > > http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25625253-5012895,00.html > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > Has there been confirmation yet? If... And this is a BIG IF. If this is > > a real story and th boy really did get hit with a meteorite there could > > be more meteorite on th ground. This would be a very famous fall to > > recover if it turns out to be verifiable! > > > > Can anyone confirm? > > > > Regards, > > Eric Wichman > > Meteorites USA > > > > > > > > > > Meteorites USA wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> > >> This just in... > >> > >> Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. > >> > >> ------------------------------------------ > >> > >> "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing > >> 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school bus..." > >> > >> Meteor hits boy on way to school > >> Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET > >> > >> ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand hurt, > >> and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche > >> Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something on > >> my hand.? > >> > >> The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but > >> Blank knew something special had happened to him. > >> > >> ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from > >> the heat as it went by me,? he said. > >> > >> After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a > >> sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea from > >> his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school > >> with him. > >> > >> ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. > His > >> parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school day. > >> > >> Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested > >> the round, black object and already found some confirmation the pebble > >> is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. > >> > >> Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. > >> > >> SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html > >> > >> ------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Another site reports: > >> > >> SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky > >> > >> SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. > >> A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the > >> sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white > >> cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm > >> cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over it > >> and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? > >> Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. > >> > >> SOURCE: > >> > >> > > > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news- > > ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > > > >> -------------------------------------------- > >> > >> So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? > >> > >> Anyone else have any info? > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Das Universum expandiert? Komisch, ich finde immer seltener einem Parkplatz! (Harald Lesch) GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate und Telefonanschluss f?r nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Tue Jun 16 10:45:55 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:45:55 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Green lights/meteor seen in uk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090616154555.SXRT6.194882.root@web06-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi all, Just caught the end of a news article this morning saying that strange green flare like lights were seen near the south coast area of UK....'possibly a meteor shower'. Any one else seen reports? Graham Ensor, ---- "Fries wrote: > Wow - you really are new to the list! ;-) > > > some of you might have a shot at becoming > > stand-up comedians if you ever want to change professions.? The repartee and > > camaraderie are delightful.? A > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From drtanuki at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 10:53:53 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Green lights/meteor seen in uk Message-ID: <88560.14302.qm@web53107.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Graham and List, Posted on The Latest Worldwide Meteor/Meteorite News a few hours ago. For this story and others: http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ If you would like to news emails directly to your email please sign either for RSS feeds or JOIN as a follower. Thank you for your reading daily. If anyone has a story or news item that they would like posted please contact me. Dirk...Tokyo England Latest Meteor News-Meteors cause flare alert calls 16JUN09 Meteors cause flare alert calls BBC-16JUN09 Calls were made to coastguards across England's south coast, including Cornwall, Devon and Hampshire, reporting white and green flares. Reports were also made to coastguards in Jersey and France for about 30 minutes from about 2130 BST on Monday. ... (more) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/8102331.stm --- On Tue, 6/16/09, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com wrote: > From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Green lights/meteor seen in uk > To: "List" > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 11:45 PM > Hi all, > > Just caught the end of a news article this morning saying > that strange green flare like lights were seen near the > south coast area of UK....'possibly a meteor shower'. > > Any one else seen reports? > > Graham Ensor, > > > ---- "Fries wrote: > > Wow - you really are new to the list!? ;-) > > > > > >? some of you might have a shot at becoming > > > stand-up comedians if you ever want to change > professions.? The repartee and > > > camaraderie are delightful.? A > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From jan.hattenbach at gmx.de Tue Jun 16 11:11:30 2009 From: jan.hattenbach at gmx.de (Jan Hattenbach) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:11:30 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <20090616141134.203940@gmx.net> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> <009201c9edd6$064550c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <20090616141134.203940@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20090616151130.52220@gmx.net> Hello list, no news so far. I just talked to the author of the original article. He confirmed the story. The stone is currently being investigated and the boy is planning to do a TV-interview, in which the whole story is supposed to be resolved. I am eager to see what comes out. I still do not believe... Regards, Jan -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:11:34 +0200 > Von: "Jan Hattenbach" > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? > Hello list, > > This story, in my very humble opinion, is rubbish. But I tried to convince > myself and phoned the newspaper that has published it first. No detailled > answer yet, the lady said "the stone is beeing inspected", did not know by > whom. I will later try again to speak with one of the responsibles of the > article. Will let you know if I learn something new! > > Cheers, Jan > > -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > > Datum: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:26:22 +0200 > > Von: "Martin Altmann" > > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? > > > Yep, > > > > but the headlines are changing, sometimes to a super-dramatic "Teen > > Survives > > direct hit from a 30,000 mph space rock" > > > > and also the details in the story get embroidered. > > Sometimes the boy was going home, sometimes he tried to catch the school > > bus. Completley new is, that his ears were ringing for hours after the > > fall > > happened. > > And his scar id getting longer, the "crater" broader and the "meteorite" > > faster and faster! (record I read was 250,000 mph). > > > > So far I remember only one article in English language, where a critical > > voice was heard - when somebody asked Darryll Pitt. > > > > A clarification or disclaimer we never will read. > > As after the news has lost its sensation and is getting old, it will be > > over. > > > > Like it was with the Grandma from UK, the girl from UK or Grampa's > arbour > > burnt down by meteoritic fire in Germany, > > There you never heard about again. > > > > Best! > > Martin > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: Meteorites USA [mailto:eric at meteoritesusa.com] > > Gesendet: Montag, 15. Juni 2009 17:36 > > An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? > > > > Hi Martin, > > > > Thanks again for the link... > > > > This story is running rampant across the whole internet. You can't surf > > the web without running into this story. And worse... It's all merely > > the same thing being repeated and retold all over the web from the > > original story. No verification, no reliable test results, and no fact > > checking at all. Just rampant rumor... It's dumb that people can't find > > out what really happened before posting this story all over. Even > > Discovery magazine posted something about it, though in a debunking sort > > of way. Normally I would have posted an article on my site about this by > > now on something this significant, but without any verification it's > > pointless. > > > > Jeez, if it's real then I'm totally stoked! This would be an historical > > event to say the least. But either way someone needs to do some > > investigation and post the truth about it regardless of what that truth > > turns out to be. Too bad I don't speak German, I'd be all over this > story! > > > > Regards, > > Eric Wichman > > Meteorites USA > > > > > > Martin Altmann wrote: > > > Ja but they're changing the story to make it more interesting. > > > > > > Read from U.K. > > > > > > "Chemical tests on the rock have now proved it is from outer space. > > > > > > Ansgar Korte, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: > > "It's > > > a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and > > > scientists." > > > > > > > > > And here is the original, they're referring to: > > > > > > > > > http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/essen/2009/6/9/news-122291315/de > > > tail.html > > > > > > > > > Where Korte is quoted:" If it's really a true meteorite, then the > > specimen > > > will have a certain value for collectors and mineralogists" > > > > > > And in the following he recommends places, where the stone could be > > tested, > > > whether it is a meteorite. > > > > > > > > > That story of course is rubbish. > > > A prank, not more. > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > Btw. it seems to be a boy... > > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > > > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > > > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > > > Meteorites USA > > > Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Juni 2009 19:20 > > > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? > > > > > > Hi Listees, > > > > > > The story has gone worldwide fast... The reports are merely repeating > > > what the original report stated and from what I can see there is no > > > verification... > > > > > > Skeptical? Is anyone else researching this? Maybe one of our German > > > friends on-list might lend a hand and call the local paper there that > > > first broke the story and see if they can get an interview with the > boy > > > to help confirm or verify what actually happened? > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Yahoo News UK: > > > > > > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090612/tod-boy-hit-by-meteorite-travelling-at-3 > > > -870a197.html > > > > > > Space.com: > > > http://www.space.com/news/090612-boy-hit-by-meteorite.html > > > > > > FoxNews.com > > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525992,00.html > > > > > > > > > SkyNews.com > > > > > > http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Boy-Hit-On-Arm-By-White-Hot-Mete > > > > > > orite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos=W > > > > > > orld_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251_ > > > Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot > > > > > > > > > > > eorite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos= > > > > > > World_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251 > > > _Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot> > > > > > > Daily Telegraph: Australia > > > > > > http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25625253-5012895,00.html > > > > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Has there been confirmation yet? If... And this is a BIG IF. If this > is > > > a real story and th boy really did get hit with a meteorite there > could > > > be more meteorite on th ground. This would be a very famous fall to > > > recover if it turns out to be verifiable! > > > > > > Can anyone confirm? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Eric Wichman > > > Meteorites USA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meteorites USA wrote: > > > > > >> Hi all, > > >> > > >> This just in... > > >> > > >> Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------------ > > >> > > >> "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing > > >> 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school > bus..." > > >> > > >> Meteor hits boy on way to school > > >> Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET > > >> > > >> ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand > hurt, > > >> and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche > > >> Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something > on > > >> my hand.? > > >> > > >> The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but > > >> Blank knew something special had happened to him. > > >> > > >> ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from > > >> the heat as it went by me,? he said. > > >> > > >> After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a > > >> sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea > from > > >> his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school > > >> with him. > > >> > > >> ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. > > His > > >> parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school > day. > > >> > > >> Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested > > >> the round, black object and already found some confirmation the > pebble > > >> is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. > > >> > > >> Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. > > >> > > >> SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------------- > > >> > > >> Another site reports: > > >> > > >> SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky > > >> > > >> SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. > > >> A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the > > >> sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white > > >> cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm > > >> cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over > it > > >> and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? > > >> Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. > > >> > > >> SOURCE: > > >> > > >> > > > > > > http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news- > > > ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html > > > > > >> -------------------------------------------- > > >> > > >> So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? > > >> > > >> Anyone else have any info? > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- > Das Universum expandiert? Komisch, ich finde immer seltener einem > Parkplatz! (Harald Lesch) > > GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate und Telefonanschluss > f?r nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Das Universum expandiert? Komisch, ich finde immer seltener einem Parkplatz! (Harald Lesch) GRATIS f?r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT! Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01 From almitt at kconline.com Tue Jun 16 11:19:01 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:19:01 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Unexpected Nininger Surprise - Millionaire Minerof the Milky Way! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mike G and all, Thanks for sharing these with us!! The first picture and the page article talks about a pilot having to avoid a collison with an incoming meteor, breaking up just under the plane. Thought I would share a Nininger Moment with the group! http://www.meteorite.com/nininger/nininger-moments-17.htm On on your second pic scan of the article Nininger sets the story straight with the editor that called him on the phone as he does in the Nininger moment above. Best! --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:02 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Unexpected Nininger Surprise - Millionaire Minerof the Milky Way! > Hi Listees and Nininger-ites! > > Nininger looking dapper in the field holding a magnet cane (no caption) - > > http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/nininger/nininger-1.jpg From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Tue Jun 16 11:39:57 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:39:57 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka Message-ID: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> I'm sure Darren will like that too... http://english.pravda.ru/society/anomal/107305-Boguslavka_Meteorite-0 ;-) Martin From GeoZay at aol.com Tue Jun 16 11:48:36 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:48:36 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Green lights/meteor seen in uk Message-ID: >>England Latest Meteor News-Meteors cause flare alert calls 16JUN09<< The article was short and not too much to it, but I do get the impression that there was a genuine meteor outburst that lasted for about 30 minutes. I also note that the June Lyrids peaked on the 16th. If related, most likely no meteorites will be found. GeoZay **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823265x1201398681/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 12:37:49 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:37:49 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka In-Reply-To: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Hi Martin and List! I have a carbonaceous chondrite (CV3) slice that has the face of Groucho Marx on it. I thought this was a pleasant fluke and coincidence until I cut open a Gibeon iron and saw the profile of Harpo Marx. It seems that meteorites have an affinity for famous people named "Marx". Taking this into account, please look at the Boguslavka photos in the article again. Is that really Jesus Christ? To me, it looks like Karl Marx, and this would be more consistent with what I have observed. Best regards, MikeG On 6/16/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > I'm sure Darren will like that too... > > http://english.pravda.ru/society/anomal/107305-Boguslavka_Meteorite-0 > > > ;-) > Martin > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 16 13:05:03 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:05:03 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka References: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <9EC14A921B854691AF22649E22FDBEB1@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, Wouldn't it be more likely that an extraterrestrial meteorite would have hidden inside it the face of an alien? Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Martin Altmann" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka > Hi Martin and List! > > I have a carbonaceous chondrite (CV3) slice that has the face of > Groucho Marx on it. I thought this was a pleasant fluke and > coincidence until I cut open a Gibeon iron and saw the profile of > Harpo Marx. > > It seems that meteorites have an affinity for famous people named > "Marx". Taking this into account, please look at the Boguslavka > photos in the article again. Is that really Jesus Christ? To me, it > looks like Karl Marx, and this would be more consistent with what I > have observed. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > On 6/16/09, Martin Altmann wrote: >> I'm sure Darren will like that too... >> >> http://english.pravda.ru/society/anomal/107305-Boguslavka_Meteorite-0 >> >> >> ;-) >> Martin >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From almitt at kconline.com Tue Jun 16 14:22:14 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:22:14 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Interesting eBay Items In-Reply-To: References: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Greetings, I am putting up a number of items that should be of interest to collectors, including Lafayette, Indiana, Powellsville, Ohio, Zag (larger slice) and Lost City plus some other items. Here is the link: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZ All my best to everyone! --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites From cdtucson at cox.net Tue Jun 16 14:47:46 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:47:46 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Re: When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie Message-ID: <20090616144746.I968B.408458.imail@fed1rmwml36> > Rob, > You said > "And don't get me started on the meteors burning all the way to the ground " > I'm no expert but? > Meteors may not burn all the way to the ground but it is believed possible that an impact can be hot enough to melt the ground into Tektite glass, right? So, wouldn't that generate sufficient heat to start a fire if it hit a source of fuel like a wooded area? Carancas hit hard enough to boil the water in the water well it hit (true fact). Many witnesses to that. But there was no fuel there to burn so no actual fire broke out. > So, I can almost see why they would depict the meteors as hot and fiery but the real cause of fires being started is from the heat caused by the impact not the heat of the actual meteor, right? My 2 cents. > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5829 > > ---- Rob McCafferty wrote: > > > > > > > > Seriously, I'm in the wrong job. I've spent much of the last year putting together a mission to Mars game for our school. You can select individual crew members. For example, one is from the Kashmir region of India, one of her languages is a local dialect and her name is a traditional Kashmiri name, all carefully researched. > > > > If I'm capable of this level of attention to detail then how are the makers of "Impact" capable of getting something on the air that includes a fallen lunar meteorite crater that is so magnetic it disrupts a compass from a distance? I mean, if that's supposed to show some sort of research into meteorites it pays lipservice only. I want to go round and bite their ankles. > > > > And don't get me started on the meteors burning all the way to the ground or shooting down meteor fragments with F-15 fighters. ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!! > > > > At least Space 1999, had a the excuse of naievety to much of it. > > Anyone remember the scene in 3rd Rock From the Sun where they were laughing at Star Wars' depiction of space? "Impact" would have them in apoplexy. > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > > > > > From: Sterling K. Webb > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie > > > To: cynapse at charter.net, Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 7:43 PM > > > Hi, Darren, List, > > > > > > The commentator who thinks this > > > sets a new low for American television > > > and astronomical science was obviously > > > fortunate enough to have missed the > > > series "Space 1999" (to name only one). > > > > > > > > > Sterling K. Webb > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:21 AM > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like > > > a really, really,really big pizza pie > > > > > > > > > > http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gsac at gmx.net Tue Jun 16 14:57:01 2009 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:57:01 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka In-Reply-To: References: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <20090616185701.226440@gmx.net> > It seems that meteorites have an affinity for famous people named > "Marx". Taking this into account, please look at the Boguslavka > photos in the article again. Is that really Jesus Christ? To me, it > looks like Karl Marx, and this would be more consistent with what I > have observed. So this is why "...this marks something up"...?? :-) Alex Berlin/Germany From eric at meteoritesusa.com Tue Jun 16 14:58:12 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:58:12 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <20090616151130.52220@gmx.net> References: <4A313DEC.8050405@meteoritesusa.com> <4A328E44.2080104@meteoritesusa.com> <004901c9eb84$0d07b870$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <4A366A77.3070403@meteoritesusa.com> <009201c9edd6$064550c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <20090616141134.203940@gmx.net> <20090616151130.52220@gmx.net> Message-ID: <4A37EB44.50104@meteoritesusa.com> Hi Jan, Thanks for the updates. Try getting the name and contact info of the lab or person/scientist who is examining the stone. If you or anyone could talk with them and get an answer that would be great. Getting an interview with the boy is probably pointless, as he's most likely been interviewed so many time the story is probably tainted with exaggeration and embellishments. Keep it up, and keep us updated... Regards, Eric Jan Hattenbach wrote: > Hello list, > > no news so far. I just talked to the author of the original article. He confirmed the story. The stone is currently being investigated and the boy is planning to do a TV-interview, in which the whole story is supposed to be resolved. I am eager to see what comes out. I still do not believe... > > Regards, Jan > > -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > >> Datum: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:11:34 +0200 >> Von: "Jan Hattenbach" >> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? >> > > >> Hello list, >> >> This story, in my very humble opinion, is rubbish. But I tried to convince >> myself and phoned the newspaper that has published it first. No detailled >> answer yet, the lady said "the stone is beeing inspected", did not know by >> whom. I will later try again to speak with one of the responsibles of the >> article. Will let you know if I learn something new! >> >> Cheers, Jan >> >> -------- Original-Nachricht -------- >> >>> Datum: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:26:22 +0200 >>> Von: "Martin Altmann" >>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? >>> >>> Yep, >>> >>> but the headlines are changing, sometimes to a super-dramatic "Teen >>> Survives >>> direct hit from a 30,000 mph space rock" >>> >>> and also the details in the story get embroidered. >>> Sometimes the boy was going home, sometimes he tried to catch the school >>> bus. Completley new is, that his ears were ringing for hours after the >>> fall >>> happened. >>> And his scar id getting longer, the "crater" broader and the "meteorite" >>> faster and faster! (record I read was 250,000 mph). >>> >>> So far I remember only one article in English language, where a critical >>> voice was heard - when somebody asked Darryll Pitt. >>> >>> A clarification or disclaimer we never will read. >>> As after the news has lost its sensation and is getting old, it will be >>> over. >>> >>> Like it was with the Grandma from UK, the girl from UK or Grampa's >>> >> arbour >> >>> burnt down by meteoritic fire in Germany, >>> There you never heard about again. >>> >>> Best! >>> Martin >>> >>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: Meteorites USA [mailto:eric at meteoritesusa.com] >>> Gesendet: Montag, 15. Juni 2009 17:36 >>> An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? >>> >>> Hi Martin, >>> >>> Thanks again for the link... >>> >>> This story is running rampant across the whole internet. You can't surf >>> the web without running into this story. And worse... It's all merely >>> the same thing being repeated and retold all over the web from the >>> original story. No verification, no reliable test results, and no fact >>> checking at all. Just rampant rumor... It's dumb that people can't find >>> out what really happened before posting this story all over. Even >>> Discovery magazine posted something about it, though in a debunking sort >>> of way. Normally I would have posted an article on my site about this by >>> now on something this significant, but without any verification it's >>> pointless. >>> >>> Jeez, if it's real then I'm totally stoked! This would be an historical >>> event to say the least. But either way someone needs to do some >>> investigation and post the truth about it regardless of what that truth >>> turns out to be. Too bad I don't speak German, I'd be all over this >>> >> story! >> >>> Regards, >>> Eric Wichman >>> Meteorites USA >>> >>> >>> Martin Altmann wrote: >>> >>>> Ja but they're changing the story to make it more interesting. >>>> >>>> Read from U.K. >>>> >>>> "Chemical tests on the rock have now proved it is from outer space. >>>> >>>> Ansgar Korte, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: >>>> >>> "It's >>> >>>> a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and >>>> scientists." >>>> >>>> >>>> And here is the original, they're referring to: >>>> >>>> >>>> >> http://www.derwesten.de/nachrichten/staedte/essen/2009/6/9/news-122291315/de >> >>>> tail.html >>>> >>>> >>>> Where Korte is quoted:" If it's really a true meteorite, then the >>>> >>> specimen >>> >>>> will have a certain value for collectors and mineralogists" >>>> >>>> And in the following he recommends places, where the stone could be >>>> >>> tested, >>> >>>> whether it is a meteorite. >>>> >>>> >>>> That story of course is rubbish. >>>> A prank, not more. >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> Btw. it seems to be a boy... >>>> >>>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >>>> Meteorites USA >>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 12. Juni 2009 19:20 >>>> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Girl? Boy? >>>> >>>> Hi Listees, >>>> >>>> The story has gone worldwide fast... The reports are merely repeating >>>> what the original report stated and from what I can see there is no >>>> verification... >>>> >>>> Skeptical? Is anyone else researching this? Maybe one of our German >>>> friends on-list might lend a hand and call the local paper there that >>>> first broke the story and see if they can get an interview with the >>>> >> boy >> >>>> to help confirm or verify what actually happened? >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Yahoo News UK: >>>> >>>> >> http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090612/tod-boy-hit-by-meteorite-travelling-at-3 >> >>>> -870a197.html >>>> >>>> Space.com: >>>> http://www.space.com/news/090612-boy-hit-by-meteorite.html >>>> >>>> FoxNews.com >>>> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525992,00.html >>>> >>>> >>>> SkyNews.com >>>> >>>> >> http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Boy-Hit-On-Arm-By-White-Hot-Mete >> >> orite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos=W >> >> orld_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251_ >> >>>> Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot >>>> >>>> >> > >> eorite-From-Outer-Space-Travelling-At-30000mph/Article/200906215302251?lpos= >> >> World_News_First_Strange_News__Article_Teaser_Region__0&lid=ARTICLE_15302251 >> >>>> _Boy_Hit_On_Arm_By_White-Hot> >>>> >>>> Daily Telegraph: Australia >>>> >>>> >> http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,25625253-5012895,00.html >> >>>> --------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Has there been confirmation yet? If... And this is a BIG IF. If this >>>> >> is >> >>>> a real story and th boy really did get hit with a meteorite there >>>> >> could >> >>>> be more meteorite on th ground. This would be a very famous fall to >>>> recover if it turns out to be verifiable! >>>> >>>> Can anyone confirm? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Eric Wichman >>>> Meteorites USA >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Meteorites USA wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> This just in... >>>>> >>>>> Two German news sites report a 14 year old was hit by a meteorite. >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> "...A pebble-sized meteorite crashed and burned into Earth, grazing >>>>> 14-year-old Gerritt Blank while on his way to catch the school >>>>> >> bus..." >> >>>>> Meteor hits boy on way to school >>>>> Published: 11 Jun 09 11:46 CET >>>>> >>>>> ?At first, I only saw a big, white ball of light. Then, my hand >>>>> >> hurt, >> >>>>> and then it slammed into the street,? he told daily /Westdeutsche >>>>> Allgemeine Zeitung/. ?After I saw the white light, I felt something >>>>> >> on >> >>>>> my hand.? >>>>> >>>>> The result was a 10-centimetre burn on the back of his left hand, but >>>>> Blank knew something special had happened to him. >>>>> >>>>> ?I thought the meteor struck me, but it could also be a result from >>>>> the heat as it went by me,? he said. >>>>> >>>>> After the intial shock, Blank looked at the glowing rock the left a >>>>> sizable crater in Brakeler Wald Street. He then took the iced tea >>>>> >> from >> >>>>> his school lunch and doused his glowing pebble and took it to school >>>>> with him. >>>>> >>>>> ?At school, I told the story. My classmates believed me,? he said. >>>>> >>> His >>> >>>>> parents didn?t get to hear the story until the end of the school >>>>> >> day. >> >>>>> Once home, Blank, who plans to focus his studies in science, tested >>>>> the round, black object and already found some confirmation the >>>>> >> pebble >> >>>>> is from outer space: like many meteorites, the rock is magnetic. >>>>> >>>>> Approximately 3,000 meteorites hit the Earth?s surface daily. >>>>> >>>>> SOURCE: http://www.thelocal.de/national/20090611-19857.html >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Another site reports: >>>>> >>>>> SPACE ATTACK Girl hit by stone from sky >>>>> >>>>> SPACE ATTACK. The girl shows the spot where the stone fell. >>>>> A girl from Essen, Germany has been hit by a stone falling from the >>>>> sky. The 14-year old said: ?I was on my way to school. I saw a white >>>>> cone of light. Then my hand started hurting.? The stone made a 10cm >>>>> cut in her hand and then fell to the ground. ?I poured ice tea over >>>>> >> it >> >>>>> and took it with me,? she said. But where did the stone come from? >>>>> Could it be a meteorite? Experts will have to explain. >>>>> >>>>> SOURCE: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/bild-english/home/regularieninhalte/world-news- >> >>>> ticker/world/2009/06/11/stone-falling-from-space-hits-girl.html >>>> >>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> So is it a boy or a girl? And what is the stone that hit them? >>>>> >>>>> Anyone else have any info? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> -- >> Das Universum expandiert? Komisch, ich finde immer seltener einem >> Parkplatz! (Harald Lesch) >> >> GMX FreeDSL Komplettanschluss mit DSL 6.000 Flatrate und Telefonanschluss >> f?r nur 17,95 Euro/mtl.!* http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl02 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > From majbaermann at web.de Tue Jun 16 15:12:14 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:12:14 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka References: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <20090616185701.226440@gmx.net> Message-ID: O that would mean that ... that from now on we'd have to imagine no longer little green, but little red men. With beards. Completely disillusioned, Matthias B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Seidel" To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" ; Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka Is that really Jesus Christ? To me, it looks like Karl Marx, and this would be more consistent with what I have observed. ____________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Tue Jun 16 15:47:26 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:47:26 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? Message-ID: <431A02591E1248708266E5A9BA1F00A9@ET> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/0667086000.jpg?t=1245180536 http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E95000005DC-83.jpg? http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/SNN1235HH-380_823358a.jpg?t=1245180707 http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E95000005DC-34.jpg? http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/_45916040_cen_meteoriteboy_03.jpg?t=1245180773 Here are some pics from this story on our young P.T. Barnum which at last count had over 100 article links on Google News. I haven't read them all, they pretty much rehash the original story with some added embellishments. Incredibly, every single story I've read makes the same misquote: Ansgar Kortem, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: "It's a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and scientists." According to the original German article, the actual quote is: " If it's a real meteorite, it's therefore very valuable to collectors and scientists". What a difference one word makes! It's almost as if not a single one of the journalists bothered to check the primary source story. Probably not surprising since it was in German and would require some effort to translate. More work than I'd want to do for $8 an hour (what I was offered to write for the South Bend , (IN) Tribune.) Anyway it's a fun story to follow, and I'm curious to see how the Susan Boyle of the meteorite world ends up. Probably more like the Octo Mom narrative. So, whaddya think, a carbonaceous chondrite, with black exterior and interior? I'm pretty sure the filled in pothole in front of the kid is supposed to be the impact crater. (LOL!) In all the stories, mention is given to only one person saying this is a Newtonian impossibility: Darryl Pitt who is given the role of voice in the wilderness by MSNBC in one of the earlier stories. Bad Astronomy's (Discover) Phil Plait believes that an exploding fireball increased the velocity of the pea sized stone (hasn't this theory been debunked on the List?) and that the kid's injury was from shrapnel from the asphalt crater. And he says this with a straight face! Phil got a little miffed at me for saying that no real astronomer would believe any part of this shaggy dog story. Phil Whitmer From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 16 15:48:12 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:48:12 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie References: <361315.80481.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, Rob, List, Naivet? is not an excuse; it is another name for gross ignorance. In Space 1999, the Moon is blasted free of the Solar System to wander the darkness of the interstellar void. Yet, whenever they set foot outside of Moonbase Alpha, abundant sunlight streams down upon them and a fully illuminated lunar landscape stretches our before them. How do you get Sunlight without the Sun? In my universe, no Sun -- no Sunlight. How about you? It's 1975. We've just quit going to the Actual Moon, even though the money has been allocated for a total of 24 missions (with an option on an additional 24). No, President Nixon has found a better use for it, a more pressing need for the cash. Something about burglar tools, I believe. So, here, look at this "Moon" instead. Maybe the word "ignorance" doesn't cover it either. And it was wrong of me to compare them and suggest that one would be better than the other. It's like choosing between the infernal torment of being dipped in a lake of fire or having small red demons pour molten lead in your ears nonstop. (Thank you, Dante, for the imagery.) There's not much to choose between. Even better are the scenes where people are sucked up into the air, right out of their seats, by the increased gravity of the Moon. I calculate that it would take roughly 3600 gee's to do that from the distance of the Moon. So, is that better-worse than Space 1999's Sunlight without any Sun? I can't choose. You pick. Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCafferty" To: "Sterling K. Webb" ; ; Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 4:53 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really,really, really big pizza pie > > > > Seriously, I'm in the wrong job. I've spent much of the last year > putting together a mission to Mars game for our school. You can select > individual crew members. For example, one is from the Kashmir region > of India, one of her languages is a local dialect and her name is a > traditional Kashmiri name, all carefully researched. > > If I'm capable of this level of attention to detail then how are the > makers of "Impact" capable of getting something on the air that > includes a fallen lunar meteorite crater that is so magnetic it > disrupts a compass from a distance? I mean, if that's supposed to show > some sort of research into meteorites it pays lipservice only. I want > to go round and bite their ankles. > > And don't get me started on the meteors burning all the way to the > ground or shooting down meteor fragments with F-15 fighters. > ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!! > > At least Space 1999, had a the excuse of naievety to much of it. > Anyone remember the scene in 3rd Rock From the Sun where they were > laughing at Star Wars' depiction of space? "Impact" would have them in > apoplexy. > > > --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Sterling K. Webb > wrote: > >> From: Sterling K. Webb >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a >> really, really, really big pizza pie >> To: cynapse at charter.net, Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 7:43 PM >> Hi, Darren, List, >> >> The commentator who thinks this >> sets a new low for American television >> and astronomical science was obviously >> fortunate enough to have missed the >> series "Space 1999" (to name only one). >> >> >> Sterling K. Webb >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" >> >> To: >> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:21 AM >> Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like >> a really, really,really big pizza pie >> >> >> > http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ >> > ______________________________________________ >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Tue Jun 16 16:03:22 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:03:22 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Re: When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie In-Reply-To: <20090616144746.I968B.408458.imail@fed1rmwml36> References: <20090616144746.I968B.408458.imail@fed1rmwml36> Message-ID: <4A37FA8A.8000306@meteoritesusa.com> Carl, My understanding of this phenomena is that the meteoroid must be very large to hold enough heat all the way to the ground sufficient enough to possibly start a fire. In other words it would most likely haver to be traveling at cosmic velocity at impact with the ground. Which is not possible for a small sized meteoroid. Of course the word small is subjective. So to answer your question I would say yes. A very large meteorite impact causes intense heat... Probably enough to start a fire, but only if the meteoroid has enough mass and speed. The angle of decent has a lot to do with the ability of the meteoroid to retain it's cosmic velocity. As does it's composition. If it's a stony meteorite and very large it might make impact and may be hot but we don't know really. Look at Carancas meteorite. This chondrite was supposedly 10 ft in diameter according to Wikipedia's article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Peruvian_meteorite_event It blew out windows 1km away, and the crater was some 43 feet across and 15 ft deep. The SAO/NASA ADS at Harvard.edu site has the speed at 2-4 kms, And the size at 0.9 to 1.7 m. Still small... "...This example demonstrates that meteoroid strength can vary significantly from case to case and does not depend on meteoroid size..." The West, Texas fall (Ash Creek) was reported by eye witnesses to be as large as a truck. That would be a few tons in weight. Peekskill of course was supposedly warm to the touch right after falling. And then of course you have the report just a little while back about a supposed meteorite being so hot right after falling in the middle of a village in India that the valligers had to douse it with water to cool it enough to touch. This didn't seem right to me, and I thought it might have been sensationalist reporting. Not to mention the unconfirmed story of a pea sized meteorite hitting a German boy just last week. Reportedly this meteoroid was traveling at 30,000 mph when it struck the boy in the back of the hand. NOT! So why did the West Texas, and Peekskill meteoroids breakup? For that matter, Consider Buzzard Coulee too. If what the information on Harvard's site says is correct, then composition has a lot to do with a meteoroid retaining enough speed to make a crater, or be hot upon impact. Considering this why wouldn't it be feasible to compare compositions, angle of descent, and speed to figure out why Carancas created a crater and the other recent falls didn't. Buzzard Coulee - H4 Carancas - H4-5 West Texas (Ash Creek) - L6 Peekskill - H6 Park Forest - L5 What does it take for a meteorite to be hot after impact? It varies... All conditions have to be perfect. Are there really too many variables to consider? Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA dtucson at cox.net wrote: > >> Rob, >> You said >> "And don't get me started on the meteors burning all the way to the ground " >> I'm no expert but? >> Meteors may not burn all the way to the ground but it is believed possible that an impact can be hot enough to melt the ground into Tektite glass, right? So, wouldn't that generate sufficient heat to start a fire if it hit a source of fuel like a wooded area? Carancas hit hard enough to boil the water in the water well it hit (true fact). Many witnesses to that. But there was no fuel there to burn so no actual fire broke out. >> So, I can almost see why they would depict the meteors as hot and fiery but the real cause of fires being started is from the heat caused by the impact not the heat of the actual meteor, right? My 2 cents. >> Carl Esparza >> IMCA 5829 >> >> ---- Rob McCafferty wrote: >> >>> >>> Seriously, I'm in the wrong job. I've spent much of the last year putting together a mission to Mars game for our school. You can select individual crew members. For example, one is from the Kashmir region of India, one of her languages is a local dialect and her name is a traditional Kashmiri name, all carefully researched. >>> >>> If I'm capable of this level of attention to detail then how are the makers of "Impact" capable of getting something on the air that includes a fallen lunar meteorite crater that is so magnetic it disrupts a compass from a distance? I mean, if that's supposed to show some sort of research into meteorites it pays lipservice only. I want to go round and bite their ankles. >>> >>> And don't get me started on the meteors burning all the way to the ground or shooting down meteor fragments with F-15 fighters. ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!! >>> >>> At least Space 1999, had a the excuse of naievety to much of it. >>> Anyone remember the scene in 3rd Rock From the Sun where they were laughing at Star Wars' depiction of space? "Impact" would have them in apoplexy. >>> >>> >>> --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: >>> >>> >>>> From: Sterling K. Webb >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie >>>> To: cynapse at charter.net, Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 7:43 PM >>>> Hi, Darren, List, >>>> >>>> The commentator who thinks this >>>> sets a new low for American television >>>> and astronomical science was obviously >>>> fortunate enough to have missed the >>>> series "Space 1999" (to name only one). >>>> >>>> >>>> Sterling K. Webb >>>> ------------------------------------------------------- >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:21 AM >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like >>>> a really, really,really big pizza pie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Tue Jun 16 16:11:37 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:11:37 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie Message-ID: <595C52F44A684950A8153013554B14BE@ET> Hi Carl, Eric: Wasn't it our own Sterling K. Webb that determined it was the aerodynamic shape of the Carancas meteorite that was responsible for the crater formation? Something about the difference between a frisbee and the flat bottomed reentry space capsules? Phil Whitmer From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 16:16:03 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:16:03 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka In-Reply-To: References: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <20090616185701.226440@gmx.net> Message-ID: Matthias, Alex and Martin - LOL. You can also clearly see the "cutting marx" from the saw blade on the specimen. ;) Best regards, MikeG On 6/16/09, Matthias B?rmann wrote: > O that would mean that ... that from now on we'd have to imagine no longer > little green, but little red men. With beards. > > Completely disillusioned, > > Matthias B. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alexander Seidel" > To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" ; > > Cc: > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:57 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pravda about Boguslavka > > Is that really Jesus Christ? To me, it > looks like Karl Marx, and this would be more consistent with what I > have observed. > > > > ____________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jun 16 16:07:54 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 16 Jun 2009 20:07:54 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] O.R. Norton Obituary in the online Meteoritical Bulletin Message-ID: Hello Folks, Please, have a look! http://meteoriticalsociety.org/simple_template.cfm?code=pub_bulletin Best wishes, Bernd From cdtucson at cox.net Tue Jun 16 16:25:10 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:25:10 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie In-Reply-To: <595C52F44A684950A8153013554B14BE@ET> Message-ID: <20090616162510.UWJYY.410343.imail@fed1rmwml36> Phil, I don't remember Sterling saying that exactly but if he thinks that then I believe him. Thanks. Carl ---- JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: > Hi Carl, Eric: > > Wasn't it our own Sterling K. Webb that determined it was the aerodynamic > shape of the Carancas meteorite that was responsible for the crater > formation? Something about the difference between a frisbee and the flat > bottomed reentry space capsules? > > Phil Whitmer > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jun 16 16:45:47 2009 From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:45:47 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <431A02591E1248708266E5A9BA1F00A9@ET> Message-ID: Wow. This has gone from a side trip to WTFia to a full-blown start-forwarding-the-mail experience. The behavior of the media doesn't surprise me in the slightest, but up until now I thought the Bad Astronomy guy was using that name in jest. Thanks for the update. On 6/16/09 12:47 PM, "JoshuaTreeMuseum" wrote: > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/0667086000.jpg?t=1245180536 > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E9500000 > 5DC-83.jpg? > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/SNN1235HH-380_823358a.jpg?t=1 > 245180707 > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E9500000 > 5DC-34.jpg? > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/_45916040_cen_meteoriteboy_03 > .jpg?t=1245180773 > > Here are some pics from this story on our young P.T. Barnum which at last > count had over 100 article links on Google News. I haven't read them all, > they pretty much rehash the original story with some added embellishments. > Incredibly, every single story I've read makes the same misquote: > Ansgar Kortem, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: "It's > a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and > scientists." According to the original German article, the actual quote > is: " If it's a real meteorite, it's therefore very valuable to collectors > and scientists". What a difference one word makes! > > It's almost as if not a single one of the journalists bothered to check > the primary source story. Probably not surprising since it was in German and > would require some effort to translate. More work than I'd want to do for > $8 an hour (what I was offered to write for the South Bend , (IN) Tribune.) > > Anyway it's a fun story to follow, and I'm curious to see how the Susan > Boyle of the meteorite world ends up. Probably more like the Octo Mom > narrative. > > So, whaddya think, a carbonaceous chondrite, with black exterior and > interior? I'm pretty sure the filled in pothole in front of the kid is > supposed to be the impact crater. (LOL!) > > In all the stories, mention is given to only one person saying this is a > Newtonian impossibility: Darryl Pitt who is given the role of voice in the > wilderness by MSNBC in one of the earlier stories. > > Bad Astronomy's (Discover) Phil Plait believes that an exploding fireball > increased the velocity of the pea sized stone (hasn't this theory been > debunked on the List?) and that the kid's injury was from shrapnel from the > asphalt crater. And he says this with a straight face! Phil got a little > miffed at me for saying that no real astronomer would believe any part of > this shaggy dog story. > > Phil Whitmer > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From GeoZay at aol.com Tue Jun 16 16:58:45 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:58:45 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? Message-ID: >>Wow. This has gone from a side trip to WTFia to a full-blown start-forwarding-the-mail experience. The behavior of the media doesn't surprise me in the slightest, but up until now I thought the Bad Astronomy guy was using that name in jest.<< At least it's not a political issue. :O) geoZay **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823265x1201398681/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Tue Jun 16 17:06:48 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:06:48 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The story was on the Mike Huckabee radio show this morning. No I do not normally listen to him if that thought crossed anyone's mind. Larry > Wow. This has gone from a side trip to WTFia to a full-blown > start-forwarding-the-mail experience. The behavior of the media doesn't > surprise me in the slightest, but up until now I thought the Bad Astronomy > guy was using that name in jest. Thanks for the update. > > > On 6/16/09 12:47 PM, "JoshuaTreeMuseum" > wrote: > >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/0667086000.jpg?t=1245180536 >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E9500000 >> 5DC-83.jpg? >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/SNN1235HH-380_823358a.jpg?t=1 >> 245180707 >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E9500000 >> 5DC-34.jpg? >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/_45916040_cen_meteoriteboy_03 >> .jpg?t=1245180773 >> >> Here are some pics from this story on our young P.T. Barnum which at >> last >> count had over 100 article links on Google News. I haven't read them >> all, >> they pretty much rehash the original story with some added >> embellishments. >> Incredibly, every single story I've read makes the same misquote: >> Ansgar Kortem, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: >> "It's >> a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and >> scientists." According to the original German article, the actual >> quote >> is: " If it's a real meteorite, it's therefore very valuable to >> collectors >> and scientists". What a difference one word makes! >> >> It's almost as if not a single one of the journalists bothered to >> check >> the primary source story. Probably not surprising since it was in German >> and >> would require some effort to translate. More work than I'd want to do >> for >> $8 an hour (what I was offered to write for the South Bend , (IN) >> Tribune.) >> >> Anyway it's a fun story to follow, and I'm curious to see how the Susan >> Boyle of the meteorite world ends up. Probably more like the Octo Mom >> narrative. >> >> So, whaddya think, a carbonaceous chondrite, with black exterior and >> interior? I'm pretty sure the filled in pothole in front of the kid is >> supposed to be the impact crater. (LOL!) >> >> In all the stories, mention is given to only one person saying this is a >> Newtonian impossibility: Darryl Pitt who is given the role of voice in >> the >> wilderness by MSNBC in one of the earlier stories. >> >> Bad Astronomy's (Discover) Phil Plait believes that an exploding >> fireball >> increased the velocity of the pea sized stone (hasn't this theory been >> debunked on the List?) and that the kid's injury was from shrapnel from >> the >> asphalt crater. And he says this with a straight face! Phil got a >> little >> miffed at me for saying that no real astronomer would believe any part >> of >> this shaggy dog story. >> >> Phil Whitmer >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 17:29:41 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Re: When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie Message-ID: <126476.80895.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> True enough, all that kinetic energy has to go somewhere and heat is how it's dissipated. I'm pretty sure a 500m bolide would still be glowing as it hit the ground but the fireball is hundreds of times bigger than the meteorite and the ground under one such meteorite would likely be ignited BEFORE touchdown by compression shock heating in front of the meteorite. No problems with this but this had car sized objects racing in, on fire that were clearly not at cosmic velocities and they produced explosions on contact that looked like gas stations exploding. It's all too silly to even talk about any longer. It's not like the show was even that good from an entertainment point of view. --- On Tue, 6/16/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > From: cdtucson at cox.net > Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Re: When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie > To: "meteoritelist" > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 7:47 PM > > > > Rob, > > You said > > "And don't get me started on the meteors burning all > the way to the ground " > > I'm no expert but? > > Meteors may not burn all the way to the ground but it > is believed possible that an impact can be hot enough to > melt the ground into Tektite glass, right? So, wouldn't that > generate sufficient heat? to start a fire if it hit a > source of fuel like a wooded area? Carancas hit hard enough > to boil the water in the water well it hit (true fact). Many > witnesses to that. But there was no fuel there to burn so no > actual fire broke out. > > So, I can almost see why they would depict the meteors > as hot and fiery but the real cause of fires being started > is from the heat caused by the impact not the heat of the > actual meteor, right? My 2 cents. > > Carl Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > > > ---- Rob McCafferty > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Seriously, I'm in the wrong job. I've spent much > of the last year putting together a mission to Mars game for > our school. You can select individual crew members. For > example, one is from the Kashmir region of India, one of her > languages is a local dialect and her name is a traditional > Kashmiri name, all carefully researched. > > > > > > If I'm capable of this level of attention to > detail then how are the makers of "Impact" capable of > getting something on the air that includes a fallen lunar > meteorite crater that is so magnetic it disrupts a compass > from a distance? I mean, if that's supposed to show some > sort of research into meteorites it pays lipservice only. I > want to go round and bite their ankles. > > > > > > And don't get me started on the meteors burning > all the way to the ground or shooting down meteor fragments > with F-15 fighters. ARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!! > > > > > > At least Space 1999, had a the excuse of naievety > to much of it. > > > Anyone remember the scene in 3rd Rock From the > Sun where they were laughing at Star Wars' depiction of > space? "Impact" would have them in apoplexy. > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 6/15/09, Sterling K. Webb > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Sterling K. Webb > > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] When the Moon > hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie > > > > To: cynapse at charter.net, > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 7:43 PM > > > > Hi, Darren, List, > > > > > > > > The commentator who thinks this > > > > sets a new low for American television > > > > and astronomical science was obviously > > > > fortunate enough to have missed the > > > > series "Space 1999" (to name only one). > > > > > > > > > > > > Sterling K. Webb > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren > Garrison" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 11:21 AM > > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits > your eye like > > > > a really, really,really big pizza pie > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? ??? > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 16 17:38:45 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:38:45 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie References: <595C52F44A684950A8153013554B14BE@ET> Message-ID: <64435418004D47E99581CB5C3A280D53@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, List Everybody had a different theory about Carancas. I thought it was a fast entry of a cylindrical shape. Peter Schultz at Brown thought it was a fast entry of fragments that "entrained" themselves like railroad cars. The Russian theorist whose name flows off the tongue but vanishes from my anglo- phonic neurons thought it was a very slow entry and huge fragments that went plop! We all think we're right and we all disagree (almost) totally. Ain't science grand? But, for Carl's question about the "boiling" of the ground water that filled the crater, I have an answer. First the outer surface of the impactor was hot. The evidence is that it did ablate almost to the impact site. Second, its back half fragmented to powder on impact and the front half dug the crater and tossed dirt out. The impact energy heated the fragments. Third. Carancas had a lot of troilite, FeS, more than 15%. When hot troilite is exposed to water, it dissociates and generates hydrogen sulfide (H2S) which bubbled violently up through the crater water from the hot fragments and made the awful stink that the villagers reported and were ridiculed for. The water cooled everything down in a few minutes and the gas dissipated almost immediately, leaving no evidence of heat or sulfurous fumes, just as the soon-corkscrewed ablation trail that hung above the village was blown away in 10-12 minutes. Heat, yes, but not enough to boil the water. Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:11 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really,really big pizza pie > Hi Carl, Eric: > > Wasn't it our own Sterling K. Webb that determined it was the > aerodynamic shape of the Carancas meteorite that was responsible for > the crater formation? Something about the difference between a > frisbee and the flat bottomed reentry space capsules? > > Phil Whitmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jun 16 17:48:31 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison Meteorite Grains Divulge Earth's Cosmic Roots Message-ID: <200906162148.n5GLmViS024779@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://news.uchicago.edu/news.php?asset_id=1633 Meteorite grains divulge Earth's cosmic roots The University of Chicago June 16, 2009 The interstellar stuff that became incorporated into the planets and life on Earth has younger cosmic roots than theories predict, according to the University of Chicago postdoctoral scholar Philipp Heck and his international team of colleagues. Heck and his colleagues examined 22 interstellar grains from the Murchison meteorite for their analysis. Dying sun-like stars flung the Murchison grains into space more than 4.5 billion years ago, before the birth of the solar system. Scientists know the grains formed outside the solar system because of their exotic composition. "The concentration of neon, produced during cosmic-ray irradiation, allows us to determine the time a grain has spent in interstellar space," Heck said. His team determined that 17 of the grains spent somewhere between three million and 200 million years in interstellar space, far less than the theoretical estimates of approximately 500 million years. Only three grains met interstellar duration expectations (two grains yielded no reliable age). "The knowledge of this lifetime is essential for an improved understanding of interstellar processes, and to better constrain the timing of formation processes of the solar system," Heck said. A period of intense star formation that preceded the sun's birth may have produced large quantities of dust, thus accounting for the timing discrepancy, according to the research team. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Citation:* "Interstellar Residence Times of Presolar Dust Grains from the Murchison Carbonaceous Meteorite," /Astrophysical Journal/, June 20, 2009, Vol. 698, Issue 12, pages 1155-1164 *Authors:* Philipp R. Heck, University of Chicago Department of Geophysical Sciences and Chicago Center for Cosmochemistry Frank Gyngard, Laboratory for Space Sciences and Physics Department, Washington University, St. Louis Ulrich Ott, Max Planck Institute for Chemistry, Mainz, Germany Matthias M.M. Meier, Institute of Isotope Geology and Mineral Resources, Zurich, Switzerland Janana N. ?vila, Research School of Earth Sciences and Planetary Science Institute, Australian National University, Canberra Sachiko Amari, Laboratory for Space Sciences and Physics Department, Washington University, St. Louis Ernest K. Zinner, Laboratory for Space Sciences and Physics Department, Washington University, St. Louis Roy S. Lewis, Enrico Fermi Institute and the Chicago Center for Cosmochemistry, University of Chicago Heinrich Baur, Institute of Isotope Geology and Mineral Resources, Zurich, Switzerland Rainer Wieler, Institute of Isotope Geology and Mineral Resources, Zurich, Switzerland *Funding sources:* National Aeronautics and Space Administration, Swiss National Science Foundation, the Australian National University, and the Brazilian National Council for Scientific From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr Tue Jun 16 18:10:22 2009 From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:10:22 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim '09 last news, last call In-Reply-To: <9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> References: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com> <9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> Message-ID: <200906162208.n5GM8joh025867@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Dear List, Here are some brief news regarding our current early Summer unanimously expected event "Ensisheim-2009". The best is that you have a look at the web site : http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr/ (don't write "www") end select your preferred language. You will find all details in the corresponding flyer: http://meteorite.ensisheim.free.fr/site/en/PDF/depliant_2009.pdf as well as other links including the other city web site. Some fresh news: * All tables are rented if I include traditional (last year) attendees. However, so far, 6 tables remain unclaimed so that, from tomorrow Wednesday morning on (Ensi time), I will consider they are free and will allocate them to those who are on my waiting list (2, perhaps 3 persons) and then to the first 3 who will ask for (please send mail). * Remember, the show opens on Friday 9:00 for dealers AND for ("professional") public (6 euro entrance for 3 days, 4 euro for Sat & Sun only). Only registered dealers and accompanying persons (with nominative badges!) have a permanent free entrance. * Dealers are urgently requested to provide me the names of their partners if they wish their badges to be ready in time (roughly max. one person per table - slightly flexible though....). * Friday-party: I have about 80 (plus or minus 5) reservations. There is still room enough for a few more and we are always flexible for the very "late birds". Reservation is seriously recommended and I'll accept them for one more day time. It is also advisable to specify the menu, thus poultry or game (wild animals), though not fully required. * Friday end-afternoon (tight) schedule: - 18:00 closure of the Regency Palace - 18:15 opening remarks (This 10th edition is dedicated to the memory of our regretted friend Richard Norton) and enthroning ceremonies (new brothers: M. Altmann (D), P. Davidson (UK), E. Dransart (F), H. Stehlik (A) and R. Vataj (Kosov?) while Alain Carion will receive the prestigious "golden meteorite award"), general picture of the assembly, followed by the selected 10th anniversary memory group photo of all the old end new "brothers" present. Please DO NOT FORGET your enthroning commemorative PLATE ("porcelaine confr?re-plate" as pertinently recalled by Alex Seidel) (hm! I almost did!). Be there, it is for a report for "Meteorite" (I guess Larry will be pleased to hear that....) - 18:45: probably a short visit and look inside the Palace halls by the officials could be planned. Dealers who wish, can uncover and enlighten their booths. Covered tables will stay untouched. - 19:15 Friendly drink (badly needed after talks in a hot atmosphere - yes, so far, the weather should (?) stay fair, mild to hot (tomorrow 28?C or 82F predicted and normally about the same 2 days later...). In case of (very local) thunder-rain, tents are already set up for everybody. - From 20:00 on: dinner-party and....much, much more ! (here YOU ALL are organizing or improvising....) * Among new dealers: Andrei Barakshin (Ru), while Alain Carion, Fabien Kunz, Sigi Haberer and....our old good Serge Afanasiev (yes, him!) are back! (Serge's come-back is expected to be duly celebrated by some specific "Russian Tea", eh?...) * Main attractions: - 3 dinosaurs around a giant meteorite, not from Argentina but from the French Department of Sarthe. Warms thanks Alain Carion!!!! Yes, kids are allowed to touch it. - 3 very interesting lectures, see flyer. Good opportunity to improve your French, although Peter Davidson will speak (slowly) in English. Expect superb self-understanding slide-shows! - Many, many weird and splendid beauties from the skies will be offered for sale, including most of the recent famous falls...yep, also "those you have in mind"! - Consignment rooms: meteorites offered for "very interesting" prices by lot less than 13 different "shy dealers", either local (organizing committee) or from far, far away (Oscar Turone, the "best italian sput-driver in Argentina"...) - Don't miss some incredible meteorites displayed in the museum as our thematic "Beautiful Meteorites". Let me cite just two of them, "almost French": ??- A 591 g crusted MAROMANDIA (from Madagascar!!!) -probably the only piece of this elusive meteorite existing in a private collection (anonymous) ??- and that 197 g of MAURITIUS (guess where from), the largest known fragment, brought by Peter Davidson from the Edinburgh meteorite museum collection. I stay at everyone's disposal for any kind of other odd or wise comment, suggestion or advice. But hurry up, as I might well not be anymore available on mail from about Thursday afternoon, Ensi time ....(still flexible, so always also try late night hours...) "Ensi '09" looks bright and announces great! June 21: the longest day, the shortest night! A blast! My warmest welcome to all of you, amigos!!!!! Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Universit? de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 18:20:20 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:20:20 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Online Meteoritical Bulletin Changes Message-ID: Hi Listees! Just in case some of you have not noticed, the online Met Bulletin lookup entries now have new photo links to the Encyclopedia of Meteorites - in some cases, there are many more photos than previously. The photo link section is also broken down into two sections - one for photos from the encyclopedia and one for photos uploaded by encyclopedia members. There is a cautionary disclaimer that the member uploaded links may not be reliable. http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php Regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From cdtucson at cox.net Tue Jun 16 19:01:32 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:01:32 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090616190132.MW8TU.417087.imail@fed1rmwml39> In the photo his other hand also has a bandage on his thumb. Was this a meteor shower that hit him? Carl ---- lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu wrote: > The story was on the Mike Huckabee radio show this morning. > > No I do not normally listen to him if that thought crossed anyone's mind. > > Larry > > > Wow. This has gone from a side trip to WTFia to a full-blown > > start-forwarding-the-mail experience. The behavior of the media doesn't > > surprise me in the slightest, but up until now I thought the Bad Astronomy > > guy was using that name in jest. Thanks for the update. > > > > > > On 6/16/09 12:47 PM, "JoshuaTreeMuseum" > > wrote: > > > >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/0667086000.jpg?t=1245180536 > >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E9500000 > >> 5DC-83.jpg? > >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/SNN1235HH-380_823358a.jpg?t=1 > >> 245180707 > >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E9500000 > >> 5DC-34.jpg? > >> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/_45916040_cen_meteoriteboy_03 > >> .jpg?t=1245180773 > >> > >> Here are some pics from this story on our young P.T. Barnum which at > >> last > >> count had over 100 article links on Google News. I haven't read them > >> all, > >> they pretty much rehash the original story with some added > >> embellishments. > >> Incredibly, every single story I've read makes the same misquote: > >> Ansgar Kortem, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: > >> "It's > >> a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and > >> scientists." According to the original German article, the actual > >> quote > >> is: " If it's a real meteorite, it's therefore very valuable to > >> collectors > >> and scientists". What a difference one word makes! > >> > >> It's almost as if not a single one of the journalists bothered to > >> check > >> the primary source story. Probably not surprising since it was in German > >> and > >> would require some effort to translate. More work than I'd want to do > >> for > >> $8 an hour (what I was offered to write for the South Bend , (IN) > >> Tribune.) > >> > >> Anyway it's a fun story to follow, and I'm curious to see how the Susan > >> Boyle of the meteorite world ends up. Probably more like the Octo Mom > >> narrative. > >> > >> So, whaddya think, a carbonaceous chondrite, with black exterior and > >> interior? I'm pretty sure the filled in pothole in front of the kid is > >> supposed to be the impact crater. (LOL!) > >> > >> In all the stories, mention is given to only one person saying this is a > >> Newtonian impossibility: Darryl Pitt who is given the role of voice in > >> the > >> wilderness by MSNBC in one of the earlier stories. > >> > >> Bad Astronomy's (Discover) Phil Plait believes that an exploding > >> fireball > >> increased the velocity of the pea sized stone (hasn't this theory been > >> debunked on the List?) and that the kid's injury was from shrapnel from > >> the > >> asphalt crater. And he says this with a straight face! Phil got a > >> little > >> miffed at me for saying that no real astronomer would believe any part > >> of > >> this shaggy dog story. > >> > >> Phil Whitmer > >> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From riffraff at timewarp.de Tue Jun 16 19:04:38 2009 From: riffraff at timewarp.de (Norbert Classen) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 01:04:38 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Martian, Lunar, Vestan & Ensisheim Message-ID: <96B0ACD0E57A430B826C1827BD47DDE4@lunatic> Dear List Members, I rarely sold anything during the last two years, but in anticipation of the upcoming Ensisheim show, and also in order to raise some additional funds for Ensisheim and Ste. Marie I thought I might have a small pre-Ensisheim sale. This sale includes four small but exceptional samples: a rare small Martian individual, a most KREEPy lunar sample, a weird piece of Vesta, and - last but not least - a genuine slice of the Thunderstone of Ensisheim with a fantastic surface to weight ratio. Here you go: Dar al Gani 1037, olivine-orthopyroxene-phyric shergottite (Martian) TKW: 4.01kg, Libya 1999 Specimen for sale: a 1.886g individual (~20x12x5mm) Price: 750 US$ (~400 $/g) Pictures: http://www.meteoris.de/special/DaG1037-1.886g.jpg http://www.meteoris.de/special/DaG1037-1.886r.jpg This is one of the smallest complete stones from the Dar al Gani strewnfield, offered at a great price way below market value. Compare the prices on the web, and consider the premium of a small complete stone. Dhofar 1442, KREEP-rich regolith breccia (lunar) TKW: ~125g, Oman 2005 Specimen for sale: a 0.680g partslice (~20x10x1.2mm) Price: 680 US$ (1000 $/g) Pictures: http://www.meteoris.de/special/Dho1442-0.68g.jpg http://www.meteoris.de/special/Dho1442-0.68r.jpg Additional info on Dhofar 1442 (at Randy Korotev's site): http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/dhofar1442.htm This lunar is even more Thorium-rich than the regolith portion of SaU 169, and contains 0.72 weight percent potassium (K) oxide, making it an exceptionally KREEPy sample that most probably originates from the lunar nearside, i.e. from the Procellarum region that was also the target of the Apollo missions. So you won't get much nearer to the stuff locked away with NASA, especially since SaU 169 is also unavailable to private collectors. Considering the low TKW, and zero availability (this stuff is longsince sold out with the finders) I believe this to be an ecxeptional offer. NWA 4890 (provisional), unbrecciated eucrite TKW: 76g, Morocco 2006 Specimen for sale: a 0.98g partslice (~20x9x2mm) Price: 60 US$ (~60 $/g) Pictures: http://www.meteoris.de/special/NWA4890-0.98g.jpg http://www.meteoris.de/special/NWA4890-0.98r.jpg I originally purchased a larger slice of this unusual unbrecciated eucrite from Chladni's Heirs who are longsince sold out of this material nicknamed "Digoult" because it was first considered to be another individual of the Agoult eucrite - until it was cut and revealed a typical Agoult-like sugary and fine-grained lithology, and a second, distinct, and more coarse-grained lithology. Unfortunatelly, this partslice broke off of my sample along a natural crack, and so it's now up for sale at about the same price I once paid for it. And I believe it's worth every penny. Ensisheim, LL6 breccia TKW: 127kg, fell Nov. 7, 1492 Specimen for sale: 0.358g partslice (~17x10x1mm) Price: 100 US$ (~300 $/g) Pictures: http://www.meteoris.de/special/Ensisheim-0.358g.jpg http://www.meteoris.de/special/Ensisheim-0.358r.jpg I guess I don't need to introduce this one. This marvellous this slice comes with a signed CoA from a well-known French meteorite dealer, and has a fabulous surface to weight ratio. 1500 US$ for all four specimens. I'm also accepting offers during the next 48 hours, but I expect everything to be sold out much faster. First come, first served. Immediate payment via PayPal required (but please don't send funds until you received a sale confirmation). Alternatively, I accept immediate bank wire transfer from German residents, or cash (and delivery) at the Ensisheim show. Registered shipping is free (airmail, worldwide). Offers are valid for 48 hours - what isn't sold will accompany me to Ensisheim. Let's rock, and hope to see you in Ensisheim, and/or Ste. Marie, soon. All the best, Norbert Classen IMCA #7606 From erikfwebb at msn.com Tue Jun 16 20:06:31 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:06:31 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Franconia Victory Message-ID: I met up with Nate at Franconia Thursday morning for a few days of hunting. He showed me his 100+ gram L chondrite he found on the southside and it really blew me away! What a large L and it is just gorgeous. Here is a picture of it: http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=a6.jpg We hunted the southside for two days looking for large Franconia's, Buck Mountain's, and small Palo Verde and Buck Mountain L's. We didn't find anything but it was easy hunting. My Dad drove up and hunted with us saturday and sunday on the north side and we managed to find an unhunted patch and pulled out some very nice finds. Here are the finds from our little patch: http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=cIMG_2654.jpg Here are our totals http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=EriksTotal.jpg Erik's 248 grams (127g, 38.8g, 13.5g, 12.4g, 3.1g & 2.4g) http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=DadsTotal.jpg Ben's 383.5 grams (191.4g, 156.9g, 10.2g, 25g) Here are some cool pictures I snapped on the trip with my new Canon XSI. The 14 bit processor in it really takes in good color and gradiation =] http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=cIMG_2533.jpg artsy desert pavement picture http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=cIMG_2561.jpg Nate fisheyed haha http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=cIMG_2580.jpg Awesome Sunset! 3 second exposure. http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view¤t=cIMG_2626.jpg Moon Rise with my Fisheye! 10 second exposure. [Erik] From csaconn at triad.rr.com Tue Jun 16 21:13:19 2009 From: csaconn at triad.rr.com (csaconn at triad.rr.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 21:13:19 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <431A02591E1248708266E5A9BA1F00A9@ET> Message-ID: <20090617011319.HMEER.167134.root@hrndva-web26-z01> In several of the photos it appears that the meteorite also removed most of this poor boy's fingers. What a horrible tragedy :( ---- JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/0667086000.jpg?t=1245180536 > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E95000005DC-83.jpg? > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/SNN1235HH-380_823358a.jpg?t=1245180707 > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/article-1192503-054F2E95000005DC-34.jpg? > http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/_45916040_cen_meteoriteboy_03.jpg?t=1245180773 > > Here are some pics from this story on our young P.T. Barnum which at last > count had over 100 article links on Google News. I haven't read them all, > they pretty much rehash the original story with some added embellishments. > Incredibly, every single story I've read makes the same misquote: > Ansgar Kortem, director of Germany's Walter Hohmann Observatory, said: "It's > a real meteorite, therefore it is very valuable to collectors and > scientists." According to the original German article, the actual quote > is: " If it's a real meteorite, it's therefore very valuable to collectors > and scientists". What a difference one word makes! > > It's almost as if not a single one of the journalists bothered to check > the primary source story. Probably not surprising since it was in German and > would require some effort to translate. More work than I'd want to do for > $8 an hour (what I was offered to write for the South Bend , (IN) Tribune.) > > Anyway it's a fun story to follow, and I'm curious to see how the Susan > Boyle of the meteorite world ends up. Probably more like the Octo Mom > narrative. > > So, whaddya think, a carbonaceous chondrite, with black exterior and > interior? I'm pretty sure the filled in pothole in front of the kid is > supposed to be the impact crater. (LOL!) > > In all the stories, mention is given to only one person saying this is a > Newtonian impossibility: Darryl Pitt who is given the role of voice in the > wilderness by MSNBC in one of the earlier stories. > > Bad Astronomy's (Discover) Phil Plait believes that an exploding fireball > increased the velocity of the pea sized stone (hasn't this theory been > debunked on the List?) and that the kid's injury was from shrapnel from the > asphalt crater. And he says this with a straight face! Phil got a little > miffed at me for saying that no real astronomer would believe any part of > this shaggy dog story. > > Phil Whitmer > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 21:20:35 2009 From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:20:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite Message-ID: <747372.43415.qm@web43402.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Listees, Hello all, I found 23 of these stones, I think might be meteorites. I was wondering if anyone have seen any known meteorites that resemble these stones. They has quite a bit of metal in them and lots of inclusions. I have looked at many meteorite images looking for a match and have not found one that matches it 100%. I have found just over 1.9kg of it total. I sent a few sample to Al Mitterling and he said it looks like a good candidate, but needs more testing. I was just wondering what you all think of them. When I hear back from him I will let everyone here know if it is or it is just a wrong. I have been searching/hunting for over 3 years and these are the best finds I have made to date, keeping my fingers crossed, but not counting on it, I know how hard it is to make a cold find, especially here in Northern Illinois.. Here is a link to see some of them sliced and polished: http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?num=1243030765/18#18 Thanks, Joe Kerchner From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 22:04:56 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:04:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite Message-ID: <456026.87355.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Joe, Interesting for sure. It looks like much like ore. I didn't catch if it was magnetically attractive. However that is the reason we have anomalous achondirtes to search through. Like you offered please keep us informed. Good Luck! Elton > Here is a link to see some of them sliced and polished: > > http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?num=1243030765/18#18 > > Thanks, > Joe Kerchner From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 22:26:17 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:26:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Re: Hot Cold again was When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie Message-ID: <91711.30309.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Any "heat" hot enough to start fires that would be related to meteorites would have to be coming from a very large meteorite hitting the ground is from molecular bonds being rent in twain not from latent heat within the meteoroid which in stone meteorites with low heat transmisivity could chill your beer. Irons are better at conducting and storing heat so they might be a little more than just warm to the touch. Ablation studies have shown that the heat of ablation doesn't penetrate more than 5mm. And several meteorites formed a rind of frost shortly after landing. One of the Portales Valley stones was found melted to a plastic tarp and warm/hot arrival was argued. But anyone in Texas can relate to the temperature of a black body toasted up to cooking temperatures just by solar loading alone. I think one can get second degree burns between 140 and 160? F but something else would have to be involved to set your pants on fire. So in absence of good data I have to remain in the lukewarm to dang cold corner of the hot cold debate. Elton From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 22:39:48 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie Message-ID: <767941.47682.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> And I chimed in to note the extreme altitude removed much of the aero-breaking trek through the atmosphere which other meteoroids usually experience. Elton --- On Tue, 6/16/09, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: > Hi Carl, Eric: > > Wasn't it our own Sterling K. Webb that determined it was > the aerodynamic shape of the Carancas meteorite that was > responsible for the crater formation?? Something about > the difference between a frisbee and the flat bottomed > reentry space capsules? > > Phil Whitmer From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com Tue Jun 16 23:45:24 2009 From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 20:45:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite In-Reply-To: <20090616220005.AUDCK.416622.imail@fed1rmwml45> References: <20090616220005.AUDCK.416622.imail@fed1rmwml45> Message-ID: <566567.84945.qm@web43416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> The metal reflects just like in chondrites. I just have trouble getting it to reflect and show the matrix at the same time so I manipulate the light so that I can get pictures of the metal and pics of the matris/inclusions. Thanks, Joe K ----- Original Message ---- From: "cdtucson at cox.net" To: Joe Kerchner Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:00:05 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite Joe, I Hope they are meteorites but it looks like the metal is shiny when rock is held in a certain position but then when turned the reflection disappears. That is a tell for magnetite not metal. Normally metal reflects light at multiple angles. I hope it is metal. good luck. Carl ---- Joe Kerchner wrote: > > Listees, > Hello all, I found 23 of these stones, I think might be meteorites. I was wondering if anyone have seen any known > meteorites that resemble these stones. They has quite a bit of metal in them > and lots of inclusions. I have looked at many meteorite images looking > for a match and have not found one that matches it 100%. I have found > just over 1.9kg of it total. I sent a few sample to Al Mitterling and > he said it looks like a good candidate, but needs more testing. I was > just wondering what you all think of them. When I hear back from him I will let everyone here know if it is or it is just a wrong. > I have been searching/hunting for over 3 years and these are the best finds I have made to date, keeping my fingers crossed, but not counting on it, I know how hard it is to make a cold find, especially here in Northern Illinois.. > > Here is a link to see some of them sliced and polished: > > http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?num=1243030765/18#18 > > Thanks, > Joe Kerchner > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Wed Jun 17 01:35:09 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:35:09 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the Moon hits your eye like a really, really, really big pizza pie In-Reply-To: <361315.80481.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <361315.80481.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200h35dcbn38dj9lj5dfs179tbkn64o5hi@4ax.com> On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:53:26 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >If I'm capable of this level of attention to detail >then how are the makers of "Impact" capable of >getting something on the air that includes a fallen >lunar meteorite crater that is so magnetic it disrupts >a compass from a distance? I mean, if that's supposed >to show some sort of research into meteorites it pays >lipservice only. I want to go round and bite their ankles. Here's another winner-- a near-future journey to a star 10 light years away that will take 10 years from Earth's perspective and 10 years from the crew's perspective. http://www.aintitcool.com/node/41429 From almitt at kconline.com Wed Jun 17 09:11:28 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:11:28 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite In-Reply-To: <566567.84945.qm@web43416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <20090616220005.AUDCK.416622.imail@fed1rmwml45> <566567.84945.qm@web43416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0992577674B247C8B50C7A5A37D71E63@StarmanPC> Hi Joe and all, I'm not too sure though if these specimens contain metalic metal in them. The inclusions are surounded by a silvery material which may be something else. Give this a little more time and I'll try to have an answer for you. Best! --AL Mitterling From bobadebt at ec.rr.com Wed Jun 17 11:24:29 2009 From: bobadebt at ec.rr.com (David Deyarmin) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:24:29 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] It's been a While Message-ID: Hello everyone. A heavy work schedule and a kitchen remodel has unfortunately kept me away from the hobby for a few months. There is no way I can go back and read everything since February but if you know of any key subjects that are must read please email me at bobadebt at ec.rr.com with the title and month. I would really appreciate it. I also wanted to remind everyone that I'm always look for new material to make into a spheres for my collection. I really need some Sikhote-Alin and would be willing to offer a heavy discount on my processing services to obtain this material. So if you have a big ugly SA you want cut up send me an email :) If you want to check out my collection click this http://home.roadrunner.com/~bobadebt/ Currently I am processing the following materis 1. Some slices and end cuts for Ghubara for Serge 2. About 70 grams of small left over pieces of Pallasovka for Serge 3. Some small whole specimens of Uruacu for Don. I should have something to offer by this weekend but if your looking for any of these materials send me an email and let me know what you want ( huge slice, nice small end cut, uncleaned whole specimen, etc,) Thanks and hopefully I will have a little time for my hobbies :) PS - If you like kitchen remodels you can see the progress of ours by clicking this http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/House/Kitchen/?albumview=slideshow From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com Wed Jun 17 11:42:04 2009 From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:42:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite In-Reply-To: <659117.42758.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <659117.42758.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <176698.25375.qm@web43412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> yes, it sticks really strongly to a magnet. Best, Joe K ----- Original Message ---- From: Mr EMan To: Joe Kerchner Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:35:22 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite Does it pass the magnet test? Elton --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Joe Kerchner wrote: > From: Joe Kerchner > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite > To: cdtucson at cox.net > Cc: "meteorite list" > Date: Tuesday, June 16, 2009, 11:45 PM > > The metal reflects just like in chondrites. I just have > trouble getting it to reflect and show the matrix at the > same time so I manipulate the light so that I can get > pictures of the metal and pics of the matris/inclusions. > Thanks, > Joe K > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "cdtucson at cox.net" > > To: Joe Kerchner > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:00:05 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois > meteorite > > Joe, I Hope they are meteorites but it looks like the metal > is shiny when rock is held in a certain position but then > when turned the reflection disappears. That is a tell for > magnetite not metal. Normally metal reflects light at > multiple angles. I hope it is metal. good luck. Carl > > ---- Joe Kerchner > wrote: > > > > Listees, > > Hello all, I found 23 of these > stones, I think might be meteorites. I was wondering if > anyone have seen any known > > meteorites that resemble these stones. They has quite > a bit of metal in them > > and lots of inclusions. I have looked at many > meteorite images looking > > for a match and have not found one that matches it > 100%. I have found > > just over 1.9kg of it total. I sent a few sample to Al > Mitterling and > > he said it looks like a good candidate, but needs more > testing. I was > > just wondering what you all think of them. When I hear > back from him I will let everyone here know if it is or it > is just a wrong. > > I have been searching/hunting > for over 3 years and these are the best finds I have made to > date, keeping my fingers crossed, but not counting on it, I > know how hard it is to make a cold find, especially here in > Northern Illinois.. > > > > Here is a link to see some of them sliced and > polished: > > > > http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?num=1243030765/18#18 > > > > Thanks, > > Joe Kerchner > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com Wed Jun 17 11:44:48 2009 From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite In-Reply-To: <20090617111719.DJH7J.19448.imail@fed1rmwml41> References: <20090617111719.DJH7J.19448.imail@fed1rmwml41> Message-ID: <515852.18152.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I tried the allertest on a few known chondrites and they did not show positive, maybe the allertest I have is bunk. I tried it on a few H chondrites and it not once tested positive. I have had it for a long time, maybe it is too old, I'm not sure, but it didnt work. I'll have to order some more and try it again.. Best, Joe K ----- Original Message ---- From: "cdtucson at cox.net" To: Joe Kerchner Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:17:19 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite Joe, If you read about allertest on Randy's site you will see that it is a very sensitive test and will detect even trace amounts of nickel. I have had the same results. Fe Ni will test positive evey time. Having said that , there is magnetite on Mars right? Good luck. Carl ---- Joe Kerchner wrote: > > I'm quite sure it is not magnetite, I am almost positive it is Fe Ni, It tested pos with allertest, but not always, It has tested pos a couple times and nothing sometimes on the same sample, but now Im out of allertest so I can not confirm it forsure. Al Metterling is running a few tests on it and sending a couple sample to a friend of his for further testing. > Thanks, > Joe K > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "cdtucson at cox.net" > To: Joe Kerchner > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:54:56 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite > > Joe, I use a mineral microscope and a straight pin and I press the pin into the metal. If it is metal it may be malleable. If it is magnetite it is brittle and will not easily scratch. This is just a feel good test but if it is malleable that is a good sign. I hope it is. I am very excited for you. This kind of thing inspires all of us. Carl > > ---- Joe Kerchner wrote: > > > > The metal reflects just like in chondrites. I just have trouble getting it to reflect and show the matrix at the same time so I manipulate the light so that I can get pictures of the metal and pics of the matris/inclusions. > > Thanks, > > Joe K > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: "cdtucson at cox.net" > > To: Joe Kerchner > > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:00:05 PM > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite > > > > Joe, I Hope they are meteorites but it looks like the metal is shiny when rock is held in a certain position but then when turned the reflection disappears. That is a tell for magnetite not metal. Normally metal reflects light at multiple angles. I hope it is metal. good luck. Carl > > > > ---- Joe Kerchner wrote: > > > > > > Listees, > > > Hello all, I found 23 of these stones, I think might be meteorites. I was wondering if anyone have seen any known > > > meteorites that resemble these stones. They has quite a bit of metal in them > > > and lots of inclusions. I have looked at many meteorite images looking > > > for a match and have not found one that matches it 100%. I have found > > > just over 1.9kg of it total. I sent a few sample to Al Mitterling and > > > he said it looks like a good candidate, but needs more testing. I was > > > just wondering what you all think of them. When I hear back from him I will let everyone here know if it is or it is just a wrong. > > > I have been searching/hunting for over 3 years and these are the best finds I have made to date, keeping my fingers crossed, but not counting on it, I know how hard it is to make a cold find, especially here in Northern Illinois.. > > > > > > Here is a link to see some of them sliced and polished: > > > > > > http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?num=1243030765/18#18 > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Joe Kerchner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From cdtucson at cox.net Wed Jun 17 13:42:21 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:42:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry Message-ID: <20090617134221.DWTXL.22442.imail@fed1rmwml41> Enjoy. Well, it's been 48 hours since I landed the 747 with the shuttle Atlantis on top and I am still buzzing from the experience. I have to say that my whole mind, body and soul went into the professional mode just before engine start in Mississippi, and stayed there, where it all needed to be, until well after the flight...in fact, I am not sure if it is all back to normal as I type this email. The experience was surreal. > >> > > >> > ?Seeing that "thing" on top of an already overly huge aircraft boggles my mind. The whole mission from takeoff to engine shutdown was unlike anything I had ever done. It was like a dream...someone else's dream. > >> > > >> > ?We took off from Columbus AFB on their 12,000 foot runway, of which I used 11,999 1/2 feet to get the wheels off the ground. We were at 3,500 feet left to go of the runway, throttles full power, nose wheels still hugging the ground, copilot calling out decision speeds, the weight of Atlantis now screaming through my fingers clinched tightly on the controls, tires heating up to their near maximum temperature from the speed and the weight, and not yet at rotation speed, the speed at which I would be pulling on the controls to get the nose to rise. I just could not wait, and I mean I COULD NOT WAIT, and started pulling early. If I had waited until rotation speed, we would not have rotated enough to get airborne by the end of the runway. So I pulled on the controls early and started our rotation to the takeoff attitude. The wheels finally lifted off as we passed over the stripe marking the end of the runway and my next hurdle (physically) was a line of trees 1,000 feet off the departure end of Runway 16. All I knew was we were flying and so I directed the gear to be retracted and the flaps to be moved from Flaps 20 to Flaps 10 as I pulled even harder on the controls. I must say, those trees were beginning to look a lot like those brushes in the drive through car washes so I pulled even harder yet! I think I saw a bird just fold its wings and fall out of a tree as if to say "Oh just take me". Okay, we cleared the trees, duh, but it was way too close for my laundry. As we started to actually climb, at only 100 feet per minute, I smelled something that reminded me of touring the Heineken Brewery in Europe...I said "is that a skunk I smell?" and the veterans of shuttle carrying looked at me and smiled and said "Tires"! > >> > > >> > ?I said "TIRES??? OURS???" They smiled and shook their heads as if to call their Captain an amateur...okay, at that point I was. The tires were so hot you could smell them in the cockpit. My mind could not get over, from this point on, that this was something I had never experienced. > >> > > >> > ?Where's your mom when you REALLY need her? > >> > > >> > ?The flight down to Florida was an eternity. We cruised at 250 knots indicated, giving us about 315 knots of ground speed at 15,000'. The miles didn't click by like I am use to them clicking by in a fighter jet at MACH .94. We were burning fuel at a rate of 40,000 pounds per hour or 130 pounds per mile, or one gallon every length of the fuselage. The vibration in the cockpit was mild, compared to down below and to the rear of the fuselage where it reminded me of that football game I had as a child where you turned it on and the players vibrated around the board. I felt like if I had plastic clips on my boots I could have vibrated to any spot in the fuselage I wanted to go without moving my legs...and the noise was deafening. The 747 flies with its nose 5 degrees up in the air to stay level, and when you bank, it feels like the shuttle is trying to say "hey, let's roll completely over on our back"..not a good thing I kept telling myself. SO I limited my bank? angle to 15 degrees and even though a 180 degree course change took a full zip code to complete, it was the safe way to turn this monster. > >> > > >> > Airliners and even a flight of two F-16s deviated from their flight plans to catch a glimpse of us along the way. We dodged what was in reality very few clouds and storms, despite what everyone thought, and arrived in Florida with 51,000 pounds of fuel too much to land with. We can't land heavier than 600,000 pounds total weight and so we had to do something with that fuel. I had an idea...let's fly low and slow and show this beast off to all the taxpayers in Florida lucky enough to be outside on that Tuesday afternoon. So at Ormond Beach we let down to 1,000 feet above the ground/water and flew just east of the beach out over the water. Then, once we reached the NASA airspace of the Kennedy Space Center, we cut over to the Banana/Indian Rivers and flew down the middle of them to show the people of Titusville, Port St.Johns and Melbourne just what a 747 with a shuttle on it looked like. We stayed at 1,000 feet and since we were dragging our flaps at "Flaps 5", our speed was down to around 190 to 210 knots. We could see traffic stopping in the middle of roads to take a look. We heard later that a Little League Baseball game stop to look and everyone cheered as we became their 7th inning stretch. Oh say can you see... > >> > > >> > ?After reaching Vero Beach, we turned north to follow the coast line back up to the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF). There was not one person laying on the beach...they were all standing and waving! "What a sight" I thought...and figured they were thinking the same thing. All this time I was bugging the engineers, all three of them, to re-compute our fuel and tell me when it was time to land. They kept saying "Not yet Triple, keep showing this thing off" which was not a bad thing to be doing. However, all this time the thought that the landing, the muscling of this 600,000 pound beast, was getting closer and closer to my reality. I was pumped up! We got back to the SLF and were still 10,000 pounds too heavy to land so I said I was going to do a low approach over the SLF going the opposite direction of landing traffic that day. So at 300 feet, we flew down the runway, rocking our wings like a whale rolling on its side to say "hello" to the people looking on! One turn out of traffic and back to the runway to land...still 3,000 pounds over gross weight limit. But the engineers agreed that if the landing were smooth, there would be no problem. "Oh thanks guys, a little extra pressure is just what I needed!" So we landed at 603,000 pounds and very smoothly if I have to say so myself. The landing was so totally controlled and on speed, that it was fun. There were a few surprises that I dealt with, like the 747 falls like a rock with the orbiter on it if you pull the throttles off at the "normal" point in a > >> > > >> > landing and secondly, if you thought you could hold the nose off the ground after the mains touch down, think again...IT IS COMING DOWN!!! > >> > > >> > ?So I "flew it down" to the ground and saved what I have seen in videos of a nose slap after landing. Bob's video supports this! :8-) > >> > > >> > ?Then I turned on my phone after coming to a full stop only to find 50 bazillion emails and phone messages from all of you who were so super to be watching and cheering us on! What a treat, I can't thank y'all enough. For those who watched, you wondered why we sat there so long. > >> > > >> > ?Well, the shuttle had very hazardous chemicals on board and we had to be "sniffed" to determine if any had leaked or were leaking. They checked for Monomethylhydrazine (N2H4 for Charlie Hudson) and nitrogen tetroxide (N2O4). Even though we were "clean", it took way too long for them to tow us in to the mate-demate area. Sorry for those who stuck it out and even waited until we exited the jet. > >> > > >> > ? I am sure I will wake up in the middle of the night here soon, screaming and standing straight up dripping wet with sweat from the realization of what had happened. It was a thrill of a lifetime. Again I want to thank everyone for your interest and support. It felt good to bring Atlantis home in one piece after she had worked so hard getting to the Hubble Space Telescope and back. > >> > > >> > ?Triple Nickel > >> > > >> > ?NASA Pilot Carl Esparza IMCA 5828 ____________________________________________________________ > Digital Photography - Click Now. > From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Wed Jun 17 13:42:34 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:42:34 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 17, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_17_2009.html __________________________ **************Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222865043x1201494942/aol?redir=http:%2F%2F ad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215692145%3B38015538%3Bh) From cdtucson at cox.net Wed Jun 17 15:20:40 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:20:40 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry Message-ID: <20090617152040.EGZ1P.426082.imail@fed1rmwml34> Simon, List, Thank you for that but many on this list know me and unfortunately I was not the author or pilot. This was a forward intended only to share with the List. Sorry for any confusion. Thanks Carl ---- Simon wrote: > HI Carl : I am an organic farmer in Ontario Canada, I really enjoyed > your account of bringing the shuttle back on the 747, I guess we're all > good at whatever we do but I can just imagine the stress involved in your > mission. You must be well paid to be able to do an assignment like that. > Thanks for giving us an inside feel of your job . > > Regards > Simon > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > cdtucson at cox.net > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:42 PM > To: meteoritelist > Subject: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry > > Enjoy. > > Well, it's been 48 hours since I landed the 747 with the shuttle Atlantis on > top and I am still buzzing from the experience. I have to say that my whole > mind, body and soul went into the professional mode just before engine start > in Mississippi, and stayed there, where it all needed to be, until well > after the flight...in fact, I am not sure if it is all back to normal as I > type this email. The experience was surreal. > > >> > > > >> > ?Seeing that "thing" on top of an already overly huge aircraft > boggles my mind. The whole mission from takeoff to engine shutdown was > unlike anything I had ever done. It was like a dream...someone else's dream. > > > >> > > > >> > ?We took off from Columbus AFB on their 12,000 foot runway, of which > I used 11,999 1/2 feet to get the wheels off the ground. We were at 3,500 > feet left to go of the runway, throttles full power, nose wheels still > hugging the ground, copilot calling out decision speeds, the weight of > Atlantis now screaming through my fingers clinched tightly on the controls, > tires heating up to their near maximum temperature from the speed and the > weight, and not yet at rotation speed, the speed at which I would be pulling > on the controls to get the nose to rise. I just could not wait, and I mean I > COULD NOT WAIT, and started pulling early. If I had waited until rotation > speed, we would not have rotated enough to get airborne by the end of the > runway. So I pulled on the controls early and started our rotation to the > takeoff attitude. The wheels finally lifted off as we passed over the stripe > marking the end of the runway and my next hurdle (physically) was a line of > trees 1,000 feet of > f the departure end of Runway 16. All I knew was we were flying and so I > directed the gear to be retracted and the flaps to be moved from Flaps 20 to > Flaps 10 as I pulled even harder on the controls. I must say, those trees > were beginning to look a lot like those brushes in the drive through car > washes so I pulled even harder yet! I think I saw a bird just fold its wings > and fall out of a tree as if to say "Oh just take me". Okay, we cleared the > trees, duh, but it was way too close for my laundry. As we started to > actually climb, at only 100 feet per minute, I smelled something that > reminded me of touring the Heineken Brewery in Europe...I said "is that a > skunk I smell?" and the veterans of shuttle carrying looked at me and smiled > and said "Tires"! > > >> > > > >> > ?I said "TIRES??? OURS???" They smiled and shook their heads as if to > call their Captain an amateur...okay, at that point I was. The tires were so > hot you could smell them in the cockpit. My mind could not get over, from > this point on, that this was something I had never experienced. > > >> > > > >> > ?Where's your mom when you REALLY need her? > > >> > > > >> > ?The flight down to Florida was an eternity. We cruised at 250 knots > indicated, giving us about 315 knots of ground speed at 15,000'. The miles > didn't click by like I am use to them clicking by in a fighter jet at MACH > .94. We were burning fuel at a rate of 40,000 pounds per hour or 130 pounds > per mile, or one gallon every length of the fuselage. The vibration in the > cockpit was mild, compared to down below and to the rear of the fuselage > where it reminded me of that football game I had as a child where you turned > it on and the players vibrated around the board. I felt like if I had > plastic clips on my boots I could have vibrated to any spot in the fuselage > I wanted to go without moving my legs...and the noise was deafening. The 747 > flies with its nose 5 degrees up in the air to stay level, and when you > bank, it feels like the shuttle is trying to say "hey, let's roll completely > over on our back"..not a good thing I kept telling myself. SO I limited my > bank? angle to 1 > 5 degrees and even though a 180 degree course change took a full zip code > to complete, it was the safe way to turn this monster. > > >> > > > >> > Airliners and even a flight of two F-16s deviated from their flight > plans to catch a glimpse of us along the way. We dodged what was in reality > very few clouds and storms, despite what everyone thought, and arrived in > Florida with 51,000 pounds of fuel too much to land with. We can't land > heavier than 600,000 pounds total weight and so we had to do something with > that fuel. I had an idea...let's fly low and slow and show this beast off to > all the taxpayers in Florida lucky enough to be outside on that Tuesday > afternoon. So at Ormond Beach we let down to 1,000 feet above the > ground/water and flew just east of the beach out over the water. Then, once > we reached the NASA airspace of the Kennedy Space Center, we cut over to the > Banana/Indian Rivers and flew down the middle of them to show the people of > Titusville, Port St.Johns and Melbourne just what a 747 with a shuttle on it > looked like. We stayed at 1,000 feet and since we were dragging our flaps at > "Flaps 5", our spee > d was down to around 190 to 210 knots. We could see traffic stopping in the > middle of roads to take a look. We heard later that a Little League Baseball > game stop to look and everyone cheered as we became their 7th inning > stretch. Oh say can you see... > > >> > > > >> > ?After reaching Vero Beach, we turned north to follow the coast line > back up to the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF). There was not one person > laying on the beach...they were all standing and waving! "What a sight" I > thought...and figured they were thinking the same thing. All this time I was > bugging the engineers, all three of them, to re-compute our fuel and tell me > when it was time to land. They kept saying "Not yet Triple, keep showing > this thing off" which was not a bad thing to be doing. However, all this > time the thought that the landing, the muscling of this 600,000 pound beast, > was getting closer and closer to my reality. I was pumped up! We got back to > the SLF and were still 10,000 pounds too heavy to land so I said I was going > to do a low approach over the SLF going the opposite direction of landing > traffic that day. So at 300 feet, we flew down the runway, rocking our wings > like a whale rolling on its side to say "hello" to the people looking on! > One turn out > of traffic and back to the runway to land...still 3,000 pounds over gross > weight limit. But the engineers agreed that if the landing were smooth, > there would be no problem. "Oh thanks guys, a little extra pressure is just > what I needed!" So we landed at 603,000 pounds and very smoothly if I have > to say so myself. The landing was so totally controlled and on speed, that > it was fun. There were a few surprises that I dealt with, like the 747 falls > like a rock with the orbiter on it if you pull the throttles off at the > "normal" point in a > > >> > > > >> > landing and secondly, if you thought you could hold the nose off the > ground after the mains touch down, think again...IT IS COMING DOWN!!! > > >> > > > >> > ?So I "flew it down" to the ground and saved what I have seen in > videos of a nose slap after landing. Bob's video supports this! :8-) > > >> > > > >> > ?Then I turned on my phone after coming to a full stop only to find > 50 bazillion emails and phone messages from all of you who were so super to > be watching and cheering us on! What a treat, I can't thank y'all enough. > For those who watched, you wondered why we sat there so long. > > >> > > > >> > ?Well, the shuttle had very hazardous chemicals on board and we had > to be "sniffed" to determine if any had leaked or were leaking. They checked > for Monomethylhydrazine (N2H4 for Charlie Hudson) and nitrogen tetroxide > (N2O4). Even though we were "clean", it took way too long for them to tow us > in to the mate-demate area. Sorry for those who stuck it out and even waited > until we exited the jet. > > >> > > > >> > ? I am sure I will wake up in the middle of the night here soon, > screaming and standing straight up dripping wet with sweat from the > realization of what had happened. It was a thrill of a lifetime. Again I > want to thank everyone for your interest and support. It felt good to bring > Atlantis home in one piece after she had worked so hard getting to the > Hubble Space Telescope and back. > > >> > > > >> > ?Triple Nickel > > >> > > > >> > ?NASA Pilot > > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5828 > ____________________________________________________________ > > Digital Photography - Click Now. > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From almitt at kconline.com Wed Jun 17 16:18:42 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:18:42 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite In-Reply-To: <515852.18152.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <20090617111719.DJH7J.19448.imail@fed1rmwml41> <515852.18152.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <11EEF5AF06CA4224810B9002972A7135@StarmanPC> Hi Joe, It seems there is a shelf live on the allertest people can buy so you about have to wait until you have a number of items needing testing then order the kit one at a time for testing. I also HIGHLY recommend seeing O. Richard Norton's book "Field Guide to Meteors and Meteorites" as he has some household items you can safely use to test suspect specimens. Best! --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Kerchner" To: Cc: "meteorite list" Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite > > I tried the allertest on a few known chondrites and they did not show > positive, maybe the allertest I have is bunk. I tried it on a few H > chondrites and it not once tested positive. I have had it for a long time, > maybe it is too old, I'm not sure, but it didnt work. I'll have to order > some more and try it again.. > Best, > Joe K > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "cdtucson at cox.net" > To: Joe Kerchner > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:17:19 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite > > Joe, > If you read about allertest on Randy's site you will see that it is a very > sensitive test and will detect even trace amounts of nickel. I have had > the same results. Fe Ni will test positive evey time. Having said that , > there is magnetite on Mars right? > Good luck. Carl > ---- Joe Kerchner wrote: >> >> I'm quite sure it is not magnetite, I am almost positive it is Fe Ni, It >> tested pos with allertest, but not always, It has tested pos a couple >> times and nothing sometimes on the same sample, but now Im out of >> allertest so I can not confirm it forsure. Al Metterling is running a few >> tests on it and sending a couple sample to a friend of his for further >> testing. >> Thanks, >> Joe K >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: "cdtucson at cox.net" >> To: Joe Kerchner >> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:54:56 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite >> >> Joe, I use a mineral microscope and a straight pin and I press the pin >> into the metal. If it is metal it may be malleable. If it is magnetite it >> is brittle and will not easily scratch. This is just a feel good test but >> if it is malleable that is a good sign. I hope it is. I am very excited >> for you. This kind of thing inspires all of us. Carl >> >> ---- Joe Kerchner wrote: >> > >> > The metal reflects just like in chondrites. I just have trouble getting >> > it to reflect and show the matrix at the same time so I manipulate the >> > light so that I can get pictures of the metal and pics of the >> > matris/inclusions. >> > Thanks, >> > Joe K >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ---- >> > From: "cdtucson at cox.net" >> > To: Joe Kerchner >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 9:00:05 PM >> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite >> > >> > Joe, I Hope they are meteorites but it looks like the metal is shiny >> > when rock is held in a certain position but then when turned the >> > reflection disappears. That is a tell for magnetite not metal. Normally >> > metal reflects light at multiple angles. I hope it is metal. good luck. >> > Carl >> > >> > ---- Joe Kerchner wrote: >> > > >> > > Listees, >> > > Hello all, I found 23 of these stones, I think might be meteorites. >> > > I was wondering if anyone have seen any known >> > > meteorites that resemble these stones. They has quite a bit of metal >> > > in them >> > > and lots of inclusions. I have looked at many meteorite images >> > > looking >> > > for a match and have not found one that matches it 100%. I have found >> > > just over 1.9kg of it total. I sent a few sample to Al Mitterling and >> > > he said it looks like a good candidate, but needs more testing. I was >> > > just wondering what you all think of them. When I hear back from him >> > > I will let everyone here know if it is or it is just a wrong. >> > > I have been searching/hunting for over 3 years and these are the >> > > best finds I have made to date, keeping my fingers crossed, but not >> > > counting on it, I know how hard it is to make a cold find, especially >> > > here in Northern Illinois.. >> > > >> > > Here is a link to see some of them sliced and polished: >> > > >> > > http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?num=1243030765/18#18 >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > Joe Kerchner >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ______________________________________________ >> > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Wed Jun 17 18:15:21 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:15:21 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Big Troilite Ball Message-ID: <84D2EFB75649429DAF7C271D0AF2AB1D@ET> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/troilite.jpg?t=1245276375 I was doing a photographic survey of iron meteorite surface features when I found this big ball of troilite in a Sikhote-Alin. It's got a slight bronze color. Looks like it almost ablated out. I remember someone from Europe was selling these on eBay awhile back. It measures a little over an inch across. Phil Whitmer From jsignorell at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 18:16:22 2009 From: jsignorell at gmail.com (jsignorell at gmail.com) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:16:22 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Unsub Message-ID: <2087617995-1245277265-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-253740527-@bxe1171.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Please take my email add off ur mail list Jsignorell at gmail.com Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Wed Jun 17 19:01:05 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:01:05 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry References: <20090617152040.EGZ1P.426082.imail@fed1rmwml34> Message-ID: The original NASA e-mail that Carl forwarded to The List can be found here: http://infinite-frontier.blogspot.com/2009/06/nasa-747-pilot-shares-experience.html An article about James Nickel can be found here: http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/article/2002-02/twinkle-twinkle Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Simon" ; "meteoritelist" Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry > Simon, List, > Thank you for that but many on this list know me and unfortunately I > was not the author or pilot. This was a forward intended only to share > with the List. Sorry for any confusion. Thanks Carl > > ---- Simon wrote: >> HI Carl : I am an organic farmer in Ontario Canada, I really >> enjoyed >> your account of bringing the shuttle back on the 747, I guess we're >> all >> good at whatever we do but I can just imagine the stress involved >> in your >> mission. You must be well paid to be able to do an assignment like >> that. >> Thanks for giving us an inside feel of your job . >> >> Regards >> Simon >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of >> cdtucson at cox.net >> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:42 PM >> To: meteoritelist >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry >> >> Enjoy. >> >> Well, it's been 48 hours since I landed the 747 with the shuttle >> Atlantis on >> top and I am still buzzing from the experience. I have to say that my >> whole >> mind, body and soul went into the professional mode just before >> engine start >> in Mississippi, and stayed there, where it all needed to be, until >> well >> after the flight...in fact, I am not sure if it is all back to normal >> as I >> type this email. The experience was surreal. >> > >> > >> > >> > ?Seeing that "thing" on top of an already overly huge aircraft >> boggles my mind. The whole mission from takeoff to engine shutdown >> was >> unlike anything I had ever done. It was like a dream...someone else's >> dream. >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ?We took off from Columbus AFB on their 12,000 foot runway, of >> > >> > which >> I used 11,999 1/2 feet to get the wheels off the ground. We were at >> 3,500 >> feet left to go of the runway, throttles full power, nose wheels >> still >> hugging the ground, copilot calling out decision speeds, the weight >> of >> Atlantis now screaming through my fingers clinched tightly on the >> controls, >> tires heating up to their near maximum temperature from the speed and >> the >> weight, and not yet at rotation speed, the speed at which I would be >> pulling >> on the controls to get the nose to rise. I just could not wait, and I >> mean I >> COULD NOT WAIT, and started pulling early. If I had waited until >> rotation >> speed, we would not have rotated enough to get airborne by the end of >> the >> runway. So I pulled on the controls early and started our rotation to >> the >> takeoff attitude. The wheels finally lifted off as we passed over the >> stripe >> marking the end of the runway and my next hurdle (physically) was a >> line of >> trees 1,000 feet of >> f the departure end of Runway 16. All I knew was we were flying and >> so I >> directed the gear to be retracted and the flaps to be moved from >> Flaps 20 to >> Flaps 10 as I pulled even harder on the controls. I must say, those >> trees >> were beginning to look a lot like those brushes in the drive through >> car >> washes so I pulled even harder yet! I think I saw a bird just fold >> its wings >> and fall out of a tree as if to say "Oh just take me". Okay, we >> cleared the >> trees, duh, but it was way too close for my laundry. As we started to >> actually climb, at only 100 feet per minute, I smelled something that >> reminded me of touring the Heineken Brewery in Europe...I said "is >> that a >> skunk I smell?" and the veterans of shuttle carrying looked at me and >> smiled >> and said "Tires"! >> > >> > >> > >> > ?I said "TIRES??? OURS???" They smiled and shook their heads >> > >> > as if to >> call their Captain an amateur...okay, at that point I was. The tires >> were so >> hot you could smell them in the cockpit. My mind could not get over, >> from >> this point on, that this was something I had never experienced. >> > >> > >> > >> > ?Where's your mom when you REALLY need her? >> > >> > >> > >> > ?The flight down to Florida was an eternity. We cruised at 250 >> > >> > knots >> indicated, giving us about 315 knots of ground speed at 15,000'. The >> miles >> didn't click by like I am use to them clicking by in a fighter jet at >> MACH >> .94. We were burning fuel at a rate of 40,000 pounds per hour or 130 >> pounds >> per mile, or one gallon every length of the fuselage. The vibration >> in the >> cockpit was mild, compared to down below and to the rear of the >> fuselage >> where it reminded me of that football game I had as a child where you >> turned >> it on and the players vibrated around the board. I felt like if I had >> plastic clips on my boots I could have vibrated to any spot in the >> fuselage >> I wanted to go without moving my legs...and the noise was deafening. >> The 747 >> flies with its nose 5 degrees up in the air to stay level, and when >> you >> bank, it feels like the shuttle is trying to say "hey, let's roll >> completely >> over on our back"..not a good thing I kept telling myself. SO I >> limited my >> bank? angle to 1 >> 5 degrees and even though a 180 degree course change took a full zip >> code >> to complete, it was the safe way to turn this monster. >> > >> > >> > >> > Airliners and even a flight of two F-16s deviated from their >> > >> > flight >> plans to catch a glimpse of us along the way. We dodged what was in >> reality >> very few clouds and storms, despite what everyone thought, and >> arrived in >> Florida with 51,000 pounds of fuel too much to land with. We can't >> land >> heavier than 600,000 pounds total weight and so we had to do >> something with >> that fuel. I had an idea...let's fly low and slow and show this beast >> off to >> all the taxpayers in Florida lucky enough to be outside on that >> Tuesday >> afternoon. So at Ormond Beach we let down to 1,000 feet above the >> ground/water and flew just east of the beach out over the water. >> Then, once >> we reached the NASA airspace of the Kennedy Space Center, we cut over >> to the >> Banana/Indian Rivers and flew down the middle of them to show the >> people of >> Titusville, Port St.Johns and Melbourne just what a 747 with a >> shuttle on it >> looked like. We stayed at 1,000 feet and since we were dragging our >> flaps at >> "Flaps 5", our spee >> d was down to around 190 to 210 knots. We could see traffic stopping >> in the >> middle of roads to take a look. We heard later that a Little League >> Baseball >> game stop to look and everyone cheered as we became their 7th inning >> stretch. Oh say can you see... >> > >> > >> > >> > ?After reaching Vero Beach, we turned north to follow the >> > >> > coast line >> back up to the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF). There was not one >> person >> laying on the beach...they were all standing and waving! "What a >> sight" I >> thought...and figured they were thinking the same thing. All this >> time I was >> bugging the engineers, all three of them, to re-compute our fuel and >> tell me >> when it was time to land. They kept saying "Not yet Triple, keep >> showing >> this thing off" which was not a bad thing to be doing. However, all >> this >> time the thought that the landing, the muscling of this 600,000 pound >> beast, >> was getting closer and closer to my reality. I was pumped up! We got >> back to >> the SLF and were still 10,000 pounds too heavy to land so I said I >> was going >> to do a low approach over the SLF going the opposite direction of >> landing >> traffic that day. So at 300 feet, we flew down the runway, rocking >> our wings >> like a whale rolling on its side to say "hello" to the people looking >> on! >> One turn out >> of traffic and back to the runway to land...still 3,000 pounds over >> gross >> weight limit. But the engineers agreed that if the landing were >> smooth, >> there would be no problem. "Oh thanks guys, a little extra pressure >> is just >> what I needed!" So we landed at 603,000 pounds and very smoothly if I >> have >> to say so myself. The landing was so totally controlled and on speed, >> that >> it was fun. There were a few surprises that I dealt with, like the >> 747 falls >> like a rock with the orbiter on it if you pull the throttles off at >> the >> "normal" point in a >> > >> > >> > >> > landing and secondly, if you thought you could hold the nose >> > >> > off the >> ground after the mains touch down, think again...IT IS COMING DOWN!!! >> > >> > >> > >> > ?So I "flew it down" to the ground and saved what I have seen >> > >> > in >> videos of a nose slap after landing. Bob's video supports this! :8-) >> > >> > >> > >> > ?Then I turned on my phone after coming to a full stop only to >> > >> > find >> 50 bazillion emails and phone messages from all of you who were so >> super to >> be watching and cheering us on! What a treat, I can't thank y'all >> enough. >> For those who watched, you wondered why we sat there so long. >> > >> > >> > >> > ?Well, the shuttle had very hazardous chemicals on board and >> > >> > we had >> to be "sniffed" to determine if any had leaked or were leaking. They >> checked >> for Monomethylhydrazine (N2H4 for Charlie Hudson) and nitrogen >> tetroxide >> (N2O4). Even though we were "clean", it took way too long for them to >> tow us >> in to the mate-demate area. Sorry for those who stuck it out and even >> waited >> until we exited the jet. >> > >> > >> > >> > ? I am sure I will wake up in the middle of the night here >> > >> > soon, >> screaming and standing straight up dripping wet with sweat from the >> realization of what had happened. It was a thrill of a lifetime. >> Again I >> want to thank everyone for your interest and support. It felt good to >> bring >> Atlantis home in one piece after she had worked so hard getting to >> the >> Hubble Space Telescope and back. >> > >> > >> > >> > ?Triple Nickel >> > >> > >> > >> > ?NASA Pilot >> >> Carl Esparza >> IMCA 5828 >> ____________________________________________________________ >> > Digital Photography - Click Now. >> > >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From drtanuki at yahoo.com Wed Jun 17 23:18:57 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:18:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Photos of Fireball west of Thessaloniki, Greece 12JUN09 Message-ID: <254249.61090.qm@web53110.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List, ? Photos and information about the fireball seen west of Thessaloniki, Greece on 12JUN09 at 21:30. The same fireball was also seen over southern Italy and Albania. http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 18 00:13:00 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:13:00 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: <20090617011319.HMEER.167134.root@hrndva-web26-z01> References: <431A02591E1248708266E5A9BA1F00A9@ET> <20090617011319.HMEER.167134.root@hrndva-web26-z01> Message-ID: Here's PopSci's take on it: http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-06/meteorite-impact-last-week-did-it-really-happen From fcressy at prodigy.net Thu Jun 18 00:46:37 2009 From: fcressy at prodigy.net (Frank Cressy) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:46:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] It's been a While Message-ID: <136799.22560.qm@web80206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello David, Welcome back. There was a interesting meteorite fall in Texas the day after Valentines Day. You might find it interesting. Check out the list archives for late February and March. There should be a couple of threads ;-) Cheers, Frank --- On Wed, 6/17/09, David Deyarmin wrote: From: David Deyarmin Subject: [meteorite-list] It's been a While To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Date: Wednesday, June 17, 2009, 8:24 AM Hello everyone. A heavy work schedule and a kitchen remodel has unfortunately kept me away from the hobby for a few months. There is no way I can go back and read everything since February but if you know of any key subjects that are must read please email me at bobadebt at ec.rr.com with the title and month. I would really appreciate it. I also wanted to remind everyone that I'm always look for new material to make into a spheres for my collection. I really need some Sikhote-Alin and would be willing to offer a heavy discount on my processing services to obtain this material. So if you have a big ugly SA you want cut up send me an email :) If you want to check out my collection click this http://home.roadrunner.com/~bobadebt/ Currently I am processing the following materis 1. Some slices and end cuts for? Ghubara for Serge 2. About 70 grams of small left over pieces of Pallasovka for Serge 3. Some small whole specimens of Uruacu for Don. I should have something to offer by this weekend but if your looking for any of these materials send me an email and let me know what you want ( huge slice, nice small end cut, uncleaned whole specimen, etc,) Thanks and hopefully I will have a little time for my hobbies :) PS - If you like kitchen remodels you can see the progress of ours by clicking this http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/House/Kitchen/?albumview=slideshow ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Thu Jun 18 01:03:22 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:03:22 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? In-Reply-To: References: <431A02591E1248708266E5A9BA1F00A9@ET> <20090617011319.HMEER.167134.root@hrndva-web26-z01> Message-ID: Hollywood's portrayal and the general public's urban-myth-perception of meteors and meteorites are actually very helpful for people "in the loop" to quickly dismiss ridiculous claims, such as this kid's. It does save a lot of legwork, eh? Cheers, Pete ---------------------------------------- > From: cynapse at charter.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:13:00 -0500 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? > > Here's PopSci's take on it: > > http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-06/meteorite-impact-last-week-did-it-really-happen > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Create a cool, new character for your Windows Live? Messenger. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9656621 From GeoZay at aol.com Thu Jun 18 09:13:02 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:13:02 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hits 14 Year Old Boy? Message-ID: >>Hollywood's portrayal and the general public's urban-myth-perception of meteors and meteorites are actually very helpful for people "in the loop" to quickly dismiss ridiculous claims, such as this kid's. It does save a lot of legwork, eh?<< I agree...but I think after this time, there will be a little more semi-knowledgeable people around to slip in various plausible details, to make what future witnesses say harder to logically dismiss. Now that could be good in the sense that the general public might be showing signs of being educated about meteor/meteorite characteristics. This boys story may be full of BS, but I think folks are beginning to catch on....temporarily. :O) GeoZay **************Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222677718x1201465083/aol?redir=http:%2F%2F ad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215692163%3B38015526%3Be) From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu Jun 18 11:05:49 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 18 Jun 2009 15:05:49 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] S&T July, 2009 issue Message-ID: Hello Folks, Interesting articles in the July issue: 1) p. 14 - Sculpting the Asteroid Belt 2) p. 16 - Very Fresh Martian Ice Craters 3) p. 22 - Uncovering Mars's Secret Past (water on Mars!) pp. 22-29 and, in the next issue: Sudan meteorite! Best wishes, Bernd From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Thu Jun 18 13:29:49 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:29:49 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 18, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_18_2009.html __________________________ **************Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222677718x1201465083/aol?redir=http:%2F%2F ad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215692163%3B38015526%3Be) From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 18 15:28:15 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:28:15 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Be afeared! Be very afeared! In-Reply-To: References: <1F484067C1D643B293B6C448723C3C7A@ATARIENGINE2> Message-ID: http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/article_opinion?id=161492093 From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Thu Jun 18 17:06:10 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:06:10 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Sale Meteorite Auctions ending"Tonight" on ebay and this weekend and new Specimens added this week, Lake Murray, from Oklahoma, Norton County, Krasnojarsk-First Pallasiet, Kunashak, Kainsaz, Miles-Australia, Tatahouine, plus Mighei, and Murchison Message-ID: <007c01c9f058$9bd62220$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Hello fellow Meteorite Collectors I hope you're having a Great Week! Please click on the link here to my ebay seller's page for some great meteorites I've listed that end "Tonight" and this weekend. Thanks for looking, clear skies and happy hunting Brian Cox searchingforfun is my ebay User Id......please click on the link below to go to my seller's page with all the meteorites below http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/searchingforfun_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------NORTON COUNTY Meteorites 2.20g COAs IMCA AUBRITE Crust (270407214171) Endsin less than 2 hours !!!!!!!TATAHOUINE Meteorite The Green Met 1.992g COA IMCA ADIO (270407242094)Ends in about 3 hoursMILES Meteorite Iron IIE Sili Australia .199g COA IMCA (280357412012)Ends in 6 hoursGHUBARA Meteorites 13.47g COA IMCA Xenolithic CRUST (280357784040)LAKE MURRAY Meteorite 2.37 g COA IMCA IIAB RARE NICE (270408239282)MURCHISON Meteorite Australia .882g COA IMCA CRUST CM2 (280358494896)Almost a full gram!MURCHISON Meteorite Australia .010 g COA IMCA RARE CM2 (270408789706)Bluff Meteorite Texas 7.2 gms L5 IMCA COA 1878 Olivine (270408834307)CHINGA Meteorite USSR 119 g COA IMCA Iron Ataxite IVB-U (280358537053)Kainsaz Meteorite Russia 0.26g COA IMCA CO3.2 RARE Nice (270408858344)MIGHEI Met eorite Ukraine 1.418g COA IMCA CM2 VERY RARE (270408916128) VeryNice Specimen from Rob Elliott's Fernlea CollectionToluca Meteorite Mexico 90.0g COA IMCA Course Octa Iron (270409549531)Kunashak Meteorite Russia 2.17g COA IMCA Hard to Find (280359047153)Tulia Meteorite (a) H3-4, 6 gms IMCA 1917 Fusion CRUST (280359430898)NWA 300 Meteorite Morocco 5.3 g COA IMCA Brecciated (270410064086)NWA 300 Meteorite Morocco 7 g COA IMCA Brecciated (270410066611)Krasnojarsk Meteorite Russia .17g IMCA PAL VERY RARE (280359487856) TheVery First Named "Pallasite" named after Peter Pallas thanks for looking! Brian IMCA # 6387>> From damoclid at yahoo.com Thu Jun 18 17:51:54 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] WTB: LL4 specimen Message-ID: <924703.1436.qm@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello all, I'm looking for a small piece of LL4 to add to my type collection. I have been watching ebay sales and have visited a number of dealer sites but haven't found much material that interests me. Most are a bit too large, a bit above my per gram target for this sample, or both. I you have an end cut, full or part slice in the range of a few grams or so, please contact me off list with pix and price. Thanks! -- Richard Kowalski From gmhupe at htn.net Thu Jun 18 18:36:04 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:36:04 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Ocate" and "3-Layer Cake~A Visual Treat" Ending on eBay - AD Message-ID: <29C47898E93A49D9976CAEF3C1162585@Gregor> Dear List Members, If you like new American irons and an awesome L5 Impact Melt Breccia, you will want to check out the very last pieces of the following eBay meteorite auctions that end tomorrow (Friday, June 19th): 1) "Ocate", the New iron from New Mexico has been selling well and only five of 15 pieces remain available. Priced well for a New American iron! 2) NWA 5407, "3-Layer Cake ~ A Visual Treat", an awesome L5 Impact Melt Breccia. This is the first time these have been made available publicly. I have never seen a melt with three distinct zones of melt in a single slice!! The light area on top looks like icing on top of the cake! All of these can be found under eBay seller, NaturesVault, or by clicking here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Here is a list of the direct links for each individual auction: NWA 5407 "3-Layer Cake ~ A Visual Treat" L5-IMB (So nice, it is beyond description!): 48.6g cs Main Mass http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212043500 43.8g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342771871 40.5g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212044219 40.1g end cut http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212044617 38.2g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342772906 27.4g ps http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342773327 18.5g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212045858 Ocate IAB Iron New Mexico (all slices are about 3mm thick): 910g end cut http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212047356 208.2g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212048022 191g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212048345 162.9g ps http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170342776849 162.8g cs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350212049183 cs - complete slice ps - part slice These are the very last I have of each of these beautiful meteorites. If you are interested, you will not want to wait until the last minute to bid, there will not be another chance to get one of these once they are gone! There are also numerous bidders "Watching" these auctions and will most likely hit the "Bid Now" button at the last minute. In addition to these, I loaded up for 7-Day auctions a number of larger specimens of Planetaries and other great rarities that have all been started at just 99 cents! Some lucky bidders will win some great specimens when these end next Wednesday!! Click here to see all auctions at one click: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Best regards, and "Thank You" for bidding and/or looking! Good Luck! Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com Thu Jun 18 18:43:09 2009 From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 15:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry Message-ID: <916494.347.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> I loved this e-mail and I'm sure I speak for many on this list when I say a big thanks for it being shared with us. I saw Columbia on the back of the 747 when it did an overfly of Manchester (Ringway) back when I was a kid in the '80s and it's a memory I will never forget. Hats off to the pilot. Rob McCafferty --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > From: Sterling K. Webb > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry > To: cdtucson at cox.net, "Simon" , "meteoritelist" > Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 12:01 AM > The original NASA e-mail that Carl > forwarded > to The List can be found here: > http://infinite-frontier.blogspot.com/2009/06/nasa-747-pilot-shares-experience.html > > An article about James Nickel can be found here: > http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/article/2002-02/twinkle-twinkle > > > Sterling K. Webb > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "Simon" ; > "meteoritelist" > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:20 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry > > > > Simon, List, > > Thank you for that but many on this list know me and > unfortunately I was not the author or pilot. This was a > forward intended only to share with the List. Sorry for any > confusion. Thanks Carl > > > > ---- Simon > wrote: > >> HI Carl :? I am an? organic farmer in > Ontario Canada,? I really enjoyed > >> your account of? bringing the shuttle? > back on the 747, I guess we're all > >> good at? whatever we do but I can just > imagine the stress? involved in your > >> mission. You must be well paid? to be able to > do an assignment? like that. > >> Thanks for giving us an inside? feel of your > job . > >> > >>? Regards > >>? Simon > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] > On Behalf Of > >> cdtucson at cox.net > >> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 1:42 PM > >> To: meteoritelist > >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Shuttle Carry > >> > >> Enjoy. > >> > >> Well, it's been 48 hours since I landed the 747 > with the shuttle Atlantis on > >> top and I am still buzzing from the experience. I > have to say that my whole > >> mind, body and soul went into the professional > mode just before engine start > >> in Mississippi, and stayed there, where it all > needed to be, until well > >> after the flight...in fact, I am not sure if it is > all back to normal as I > >> type this email. The experience was surreal. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?Seeing that "thing" on top of > an already overly huge aircraft > >> boggles my mind. The whole mission from takeoff to > engine shutdown was > >> unlike anything I had ever done. It was like a > dream...someone else's dream. > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?We took off from Columbus AFB > on their 12,000 foot runway, of > >> > which > >> I used 11,999 1/2 feet to get the wheels off the > ground. We were at 3,500 > >> feet left to go of the runway, throttles full > power, nose wheels still > >> hugging the ground, copilot calling out decision > speeds, the weight of > >> Atlantis now screaming through my fingers clinched > tightly on the controls, > >> tires heating up to their near maximum temperature > from the speed and the > >> weight, and not yet at rotation speed, the speed > at which I would be pulling > >> on the controls to get the nose to rise. I just > could not wait, and I mean I > >> COULD NOT WAIT, and started pulling early. If I > had waited until rotation > >> speed, we would not have rotated enough to get > airborne by the end of the > >> runway. So I pulled on the controls early and > started our rotation to the > >> takeoff attitude. The wheels finally lifted off as > we passed over the stripe > >> marking the end of the runway and my next hurdle > (physically) was a line of > >> trees 1,000 feet of > >>? f the departure end of Runway 16. All I knew > was we were flying and so I > >> directed the gear to be retracted and the flaps to > be moved from Flaps 20 to > >> Flaps 10 as I pulled even harder on the controls. > I must say, those trees > >> were beginning to look a lot like those brushes in > the drive through car > >> washes so I pulled even harder yet! I think I saw > a bird just fold its wings > >> and fall out of a tree as if to say "Oh just take > me". Okay, we cleared the > >> trees, duh, but it was way too close for my > laundry. As we started to > >> actually climb, at only 100 feet per minute, I > smelled something that > >> reminded me of touring the Heineken Brewery in > Europe...I said "is that a > >> skunk I smell?" and the veterans of shuttle > carrying looked at me and smiled > >> and said "Tires"! > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?I said "TIRES??? OURS???" They > smiled and shook their heads > >> > as if to > >> call their Captain an amateur...okay, at that > point I was. The tires were so > >> hot you could smell them in the cockpit. My mind > could not get over, from > >> this point on, that this was something I had never > experienced. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?Where's your mom when you > REALLY need her? > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?The flight down to Florida was > an eternity. We cruised at 250 > >> > knots > >> indicated, giving us about 315 knots of ground > speed at 15,000'. The miles > >> didn't click by like I am use to them clicking by > in a fighter jet at MACH > >> .94. We were burning fuel at a rate of 40,000 > pounds per hour or 130 pounds > >> per mile, or one gallon every length of the > fuselage. The vibration in the > >> cockpit was mild, compared to down below and to > the rear of the fuselage > >> where it reminded me of that football game I had > as a child where you turned > >> it on and the players vibrated around the board. I > felt like if I had > >> plastic clips on my boots I could have vibrated to > any spot in the fuselage > >> I wanted to go without moving my legs...and the > noise was deafening. The 747 > >> flies with its nose 5 degrees up in the air to > stay level, and when you > >> bank, it feels like the shuttle is trying to say > "hey, let's roll completely > >> over on our back"..not a good thing I kept telling > myself. SO I limited my > >> bank? angle to 1 > >>? 5 degrees and even though a 180 degree > course change took a full zip code > >> to complete, it was the safe way to turn this > monster. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > Airliners and even a flight of > two F-16s deviated from their > >> > flight > >> plans to catch a glimpse of us along the way. We > dodged what was in reality > >> very few clouds and storms, despite what everyone > thought, and arrived in > >> Florida with 51,000 pounds of fuel too much to > land with. We can't land > >> heavier than 600,000 pounds total weight and so we > had to do something with > >> that fuel. I had an idea...let's fly low and slow > and show this beast off to > >> all the taxpayers in Florida lucky enough to be > outside on that Tuesday > >> afternoon. So at Ormond Beach we let down to 1,000 > feet above the > >> ground/water and flew just east of the beach out > over the water. Then, once > >> we reached the NASA airspace of the Kennedy Space > Center, we cut over to the > >> Banana/Indian Rivers and flew down the middle of > them to show the people of > >> Titusville, Port St.Johns and Melbourne just what > a 747 with a shuttle on it > >> looked like. We stayed at 1,000 feet and since we > were dragging our flaps at > >> "Flaps 5", our spee > >>? d was down to around 190 to 210 knots. We > could see traffic stopping in the > >> middle of roads to take a look. We heard later > that a Little League Baseball > >> game stop to look and everyone cheered as we > became their 7th inning > >> stretch. Oh say can you see... > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?After reaching Vero Beach, we > turned north to follow the > >> > coast line > >> back up to the Shuttle Landing Facility (SLF). > There was not one person > >> laying on the beach...they were all standing and > waving! "What a sight" I > >> thought...and figured they were thinking the same > thing. All this time I was > >> bugging the engineers, all three of them, to > re-compute our fuel and tell me > >> when it was time to land. They kept saying "Not > yet Triple, keep showing > >> this thing off" which was not a bad thing to be > doing. However, all this > >> time the thought that the landing, the muscling of > this 600,000 pound beast, > >> was getting closer and closer to my reality. I was > pumped up! We got back to > >> the SLF and were still 10,000 pounds too heavy to > land so I said I was going > >> to do a low approach over the SLF going the > opposite direction of landing > >> traffic that day. So at 300 feet, we flew down the > runway, rocking our wings > >> like a whale rolling on its side to say "hello" to > the people looking on! > >> One turn out > >>???of traffic and back to the runway > to land...still 3,000 pounds over gross > >> weight limit. But the engineers agreed that if the > landing were smooth, > >> there would be no problem. "Oh thanks guys, a > little extra pressure is just > >> what I needed!" So we landed at 603,000 pounds and > very smoothly if I have > >> to say so myself. The landing was so totally > controlled and on speed, that > >> it was fun. There were a few surprises that I > dealt with, like the 747 falls > >> like a rock with the orbiter on it if you pull the > throttles off at the > >> "normal" point in a > >> > >> > > >> > >> > landing and secondly, if you > thought you could hold the nose > >> > off the > >> ground after the mains touch down, think > again...IT IS COMING DOWN!!! > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?So I "flew it down" to the > ground and saved what I have seen > >> > in > >> videos of a nose slap after landing. Bob's video > supports this! :8-) > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?Then I turned on my phone > after coming to a full stop only to > >> > find > >> 50 bazillion emails and phone messages from all of > you who were so super to > >> be watching and cheering us on! What a treat, I > can't thank y'all enough. > >> For those who watched, you wondered why we sat > there so long. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?Well, the shuttle had very > hazardous chemicals on board and > >> > we had > >> to be "sniffed" to determine if any had leaked or > were leaking. They checked > >> for Monomethylhydrazine (N2H4 for Charlie Hudson) > and nitrogen tetroxide > >> (N2O4). Even though we were "clean", it took way > too long for them to tow us > >> in to the mate-demate area. Sorry for those who > stuck it out and even waited > >> until we exited the jet. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ? I am sure I will wake up in > the middle of the night here > >> > soon, > >> screaming and standing straight up dripping wet > with sweat from the > >> realization of what had happened. It was a thrill > of a lifetime. Again I > >> want to thank everyone for your interest and > support. It felt good to bring > >> Atlantis home in one piece after she had worked so > hard getting to the > >> Hubble Space Telescope and back. > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?Triple Nickel > >> > >> > > >> > >> > ?NASA Pilot > >> > >> Carl Esparza > >> IMCA 5828 > >> > ____________________________________________________________ > >> > Digital Photography - Click Now. > >> > > >> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 18 21:13:53 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:13:53 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] More stupid media use of meteorites In-Reply-To: <29C47898E93A49D9976CAEF3C1162585@Gregor> References: <29C47898E93A49D9976CAEF3C1162585@Gregor> Message-ID: http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/2012/trailer From meteoritemike at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 23:53:57 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:53:57 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Trade Offer - Nice Pyramid-shaped UNWA stone for Ensisheim or Weston. Message-ID: Hi List! In the spirit of the early days of the Saharan Gold Rush, I would like to trade a nice NWA specimen for a small piece of historical material. In this case, I have a pyramid-shaped, whole unclassified stone. It weighs 192 grams and has 90% remnant fusion crust and it has a nice patina of painted oxidation and desert varnish. It displays well in several positions and exhibits moderate attraction to a rare earth magnet. There is a small broken area where the matrix is exposed and there is some evidence of chondrule pits. So I am guessing it's an H4 or H5 or similar OC. It's too pretty to cut (or is it?) and I have been keeping it as a display stone or an outreach prop to pass around. Based on the current market trends, it's value is roughly .10 - .15 cents a gram dealer cost and maybe .25 to .50 cents a gram retail - I guesstimate. I would like to trade this UNWA stone for a piece of Weston, Ensisheim, L'Aigle, or some other significant historical fall. I don't expect a big specimen, but I don't want any Bessey Specks either. I already have small pieces of these falls in my collection in the 10-15mg range, so I don't want anything else that small - unless it's several small pieces put together in a lot. Here are some photos of the UNWA stone. I can provide more photos on request - mike at galactic-stone.com http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/unwa%20trade/unwa-triangle-1.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/unwa%20trade/unwa-triangle-2.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/unwa%20trade/unwa-triangle-3.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/unwa%20trade/unwa-triangle-broken.jpg Email any offers off-list please. Regards and clear skies, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From jnbran at verizon.net Fri Jun 19 00:25:43 2009 From: jnbran at verizon.net (JASON PHILLIPS) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:25:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: 100kg Brenham on eBay In-Reply-To: <007c01c9f058$9bd62220$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> References: <007c01c9f058$9bd62220$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Message-ID: <086C428AA70141FE949BDC42E2CDD20F@AcerPC> Hello List, I have placed my 100 kg Brenham pallasite on eBay for a 10 day auction with no reserve. It comes with a letter of authenticity from Steve Arnold, in situ pictures of Dr. Ebel (American Museum of Natural History) and Steve retrieving it, and a dark cherry wooden stand. If you are interested in discussing this specimen please contact me. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260430948969&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3ALCA%3AUS%3A1123&salenotsupported Take Care and Thanks, Jason Phillips Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com From erikfwebb at msn.com Fri Jun 19 02:33:06 2009 From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 23:33:06 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] More stupid media use of meteorites In-Reply-To: References: <29C47898E93A49D9976CAEF3C1162585@Gregor> Message-ID: take some cool effects and mix them with the newest Y2k end of the world plot and every possible natural desaster know to man. Badah Bing Badah Boom. We are simple creatures... [Erik] ---------------------------------------- > From: cynapse at charter.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:13:53 -0500 > Subject: [meteorite-list] More stupid media use of meteorites > > http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/2012/trailer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoriteshow at free.fr Fri Jun 19 03:42:12 2009 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 07:42:12 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday Message-ID: <002a01c9f0b1$761ab830$0300a8c0@T42> ear Listees, Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow They include: 1- DaG 951 - L5 - 18.0g partslice: dimensions dimensions 60x43x4mm Displays lots of very thin metal flakes in a highly metamorpized matrix. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330335851912 2- EL AROUSS L-IMB (unclas.) - 5.3g endcut: dimensions 23x18x8mm. Nice tiny vesiculated cavities & a "milky way" of metal flakes. STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330335851930 3- NWA 859 (Taza) IRON UNGR. - 5.0g oriented: dimensions ~18x18x6mm. Beautiful shape with rollover lips. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330335851959 4- SAH 02500 L3 - 699g Crusted Individual: dimensions: 94x80x60mm. Nice chondrules & inclusions are visible where there is no fusion crust. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330335851981 Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!! Kind regards, Frederic Beroud http://www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/) From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jun 19 04:14:33 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 19 Jun 2009 08:14:33 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] First Ensisheim 2009 Pics Message-ID: Hello All, German List member and namesake "Bernd" (not me) has sent these first impressions to the German Met.List. My Pauline and me will be leaving for Ensisheim in about two or three hours. Enjoy: http://berru.de/index.php/fotos/category/18 Bernd From bristolia at yahoo.com Fri Jun 19 07:59:34 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 04:59:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Even More stupid media use of meteorites Message-ID: <504135.99483.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Darren wrote: " http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/2012/trailer " For even more hype, disaster movie "2012" also has a faux scientific website at: http://www.instituteforhumancontinuity.org/ It is the "home" of a entirely fictitious "The Institute for Human Continuity". The website has a fictional lottery to select those who will be saved when 94 percent of the world is destroyed as a result of a fictional Earth Crustal Displacement. I guess nobody ever went broke underestimating the gullibility of the American public. In addition, ABC will have mini-series called "Impact" will be broadcast on June 21. It is about a giant meteor storm that hits the Moon increasing it mass to the point that it becomes twice that of Earth and threatens to fall on Earth. It is discussed in "If I watch this I hope the Moon *will* hit the Earth" on the "Bad Astronomy" web page at: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ Best Regards Paul H. From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Fri Jun 19 08:18:39 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 08:18:39 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 19, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_19_2009.html __________________________ **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222435718x1201460505/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick. net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Fri Jun 19 08:40:07 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 05:40:07 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Even More stupid media use of meteorites In-Reply-To: <504135.99483.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <504135.99483.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <86f5f1daae3bda395a7d81c618f47dec.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi All: If they had only spent a tenth of their budget in this on getting science facts correct as they spent on this "stuff" in general... How many people are going to believe this stuff? If I read this site correctly, the Sun will be in the center of the galaxy? If that were true, we would have a lot more to worry about than planet x (like being pulled into a black hole). Larry Lebofsky wasting my time teaching real science to teachers and kids on a lot smaller budget > > Darren wrote: > " http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/2012/trailer " > > For even more hype, disaster movie "2012" also has a faux scientific > website at: > > http://www.instituteforhumancontinuity.org/ > > It is the "home" of a entirely fictitious "The Institute for Human > Continuity". The website > has a fictional lottery to select those who will be saved when 94 percent > of the world is > destroyed as a result of a fictional Earth Crustal Displacement. I guess > nobody ever went > broke underestimating the gullibility of the American public. > > In addition, ABC will have mini-series called "Impact" will be broadcast > on June 21. It > is about a giant meteor storm that hits the Moon increasing it mass to the > point that it > becomes twice that of Earth and threatens to fall on Earth. It is > discussed in "If I watch > this I hope the Moon *will* hit the Earth" on the "Bad Astronomy" web page > at: > > http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/15/if-i-watch-this-i-hope-the-moon-will-hit-the-earth/ > > Best Regards > > Paul H. > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 19 10:51:59 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 07:51:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Even More stupid media use of meteorites Message-ID: Hello Larry, Darren and All, Whoa!! That trailer looks awesome! First time I'd seen it. I'm a sucker for these disaster movies. How many times have you seen a nuclear aircraft carrier capsizing unto a city? Anyway, thanks to everyone one this list, at least I now know incoming stones shouldn't be flaming like that. So at least not everyone will be believing all of this stuff. I wonder if they'll show people scrambling around collecting those meteorites? Now that would be funny and more believable. No, I'm not making fun of meteorite hunters but I think it's something most of us on this list would do. Of course the sun (and presumable us) won't be in the center of the galaxy in 2012, but would appear thru line of sight to be. I think it's all a matter of language. Carl, the easily awestruck. _________________________________________________________________ Bing? brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 From meteoriteplaya at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 10:54:10 2009 From: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com (Mike Jensen) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 08:54:10 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Post for Langs Message-ID: <6f9da8300906190754v2e83fd02y92ee07de459e72b1@mail.gmail.com> Hi All Iris is having trouble posting to the list. Lots of great stuff for sale. Mike Dear meteorite list members, It has been a while that I posted to the meteorite list. I have just updated my sale pages on my meteorite web site: http://www.nyrockman.com The following are some of the new material entered. Canyon Diablo is a complete sculptural individual that a call the "CAT". The specimen weight is 2,957 grams. The size is 140" height by 105" wide. The specimen comes with the original invoice and is a numbered "Historic iron with Nininger specimen #34.5239". http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/canyon_diablo.htm Canyon Diablo complete individual weight is 10.2 kg "Historic iron with Nininger # 34.4949" and original invoice. Very sculptural piece. A museum grade A specimen. http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/canyon_diablo10.2kg.htm Esquel part slice of a beautiful Pallasite. The olivine crystals on this piece are just magnificent. This specimen also has a wonderful Windmanstattern pattern and has a gorgeous finish on the piece. It is a very impressive piece. The slice contains great looking olivine crystals (dark green, dark yellow and red) some olivine crystals you can see the light going threw the piece. The weight of the Esquel specimen 1,653 grams and the size 4.5 mm x 260 mm x 360 mm. http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/esquel.htm Henbury complete Individual 2.56 kg It is all natural with a very nice patina. http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/henbury.htm Henbury complete large Individual 5.55kg The meteorite specimen is all natural with a great looking patina. It also has a nice size hole. A real collector's piece. "Museum quality piece" This specimen is from my personal collection. http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/henbury5.55kg.htm Homestead very large fragment with a nice cut face 2,660 grams. The specimen has 35% fresh black fusion crust. A real collector's piece. "Museum grades A specimen." http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/homestead.htm Murchison very beautiful looking fragment that has 45% fresh black fusion crust. The specimen also has a very nice looking cut face. The weight is 234.6 grams http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/murchison234.5g.htm Murchison a beautiful looking fragment that has 30% fresh black fusion crust. The specimen also has a cut face the weight is 17.2 grams. A nice collector's piece. http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/murchison17.7g.htm Odessa excellent looking very large Individual specimen. "A museum quality specimen." Very sculptural and one of my best pieces from my personal meteorite collection. 35.2 kg http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/odessa35.2kg.htm Seymchan full slice is a very large beautiful pallasite weight 17.1kg. This is one of the best larger looking slices available. This slice has the largest surface are that I have ever offered. It has a nice balance of crystals and metal. This specimen's crystals go from fine to larger and are visible. The piece has been etched with a wonderful Windmanstattern pattern and has a gorgeous finish on the piece. The specimen has areas that are encrusted with (dark red, yellow and green) olivine crystals. "Museum grades A specimen." http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/seymchan.htm Sikhote-Alin a very large beautiful grade A- black oriented individual 18.8 kg Excellent looking iron meteorite with remaglypts. This beautiful oriented iron is covered with thumbprints, valleys and ridges. ( it is all natural) One of my best iron specimens from my personal meteorite collection. "Museum quality specimen." http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/sikhote_alin18.8kg.htm Udei station Slice 318 grams size 6 mm x 110 mm x 129 mm "good looking piece" http://www.nyrockman.com/pages/udei_station318g.htm Best regards Iris Lang http://www.nyrockman.com -- Mike -- Mike Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 USA 720-949-6220 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jun 19 12:16:01 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:16:01 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Even More stupid media use of meteorites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6ben3592017kv33tfs6i8tmn8aqcfuenaj@4ax.com> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 07:51:59 -0700, you wrote: >How many times have you seen a nuclear aircraft carrier capsizing unto a city? That's not a city, that's JFK returning to the White House. From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jun 19 12:12:03 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:12:03 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] More stupid media use of meteorites In-Reply-To: References: <29C47898E93A49D9976CAEF3C1162585@Gregor> Message-ID: <4A3BB8D3.5060703@meteoritesusa.com> Hi Darren, Carl, Paul, List, I started to reply to this yesterday but got pulled away before I could send the email. So far I've read 3 negative comments against this movie and one positive. Come on guys... It's a movie! And before you guys jump on me exclaiming that the movie should be more scientifically accurate, and Hollywood is only in it for the money I want to say. You're Right! The movie should have more accurate information regarding asteroid/meteorite impacts, but... It's Hollywood! They don't get paid to be accurate, they get paid with ticket sales, DVDs, adverts, licensing, etc. What the heck did you think Hollywood was going to do? Did you think Hollywood would ignore 2012? What better way than to play on the public's paranoia and fears. They've done it since the beginning of movie time! I don't know why this irks me when people seem to be overly judgmental and like to bash things just because. I'm not defending the inaccuracies in the movie, but sheesh. It's entertainment. I'm kind of torn about it this. Part of me loves the Hollywood visual effects and CGI, the sound was awesome too. On the flip side, I do wish I people would learn more about asteroid impacts and depict them in a scientifically accurate manner. It is possible to balance science and entertainment, but it's difficult, and cost loads of cash in a big budget film like this one to hire expert scientific advisers. I like the premise, love the visuals, and let them have their artistic license. 2012 is a great idea for a movie... Now I wonder what Steven Spielberg & George Lucas has planned for the upcoming doom-n-gloom date. That's a movie I eagerly await! Regards, Eric Darren Garrison wrote: > http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/2012/trailer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jun 19 12:12:03 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:12:03 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man Message-ID: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> List, I have two questions about this very interesting video that may be a bit off topic. The questions are ; Could this possibly be true and does this sort of thing happen in meteoritic's. see link below.Thank's. Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nne_-j08yMo From GeoZay at aol.com Fri Jun 19 12:44:27 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:44:27 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man Message-ID: >>I have two questions about this very interesting video that may be a bit off topic. The questions are ; Could this possibly be true and does this sort of thing happen in meteoritic's. see link below.Thank's.<< Did you notice at the beginning the logo of "UFOTV"? That alone should speak volumes. :O) GeoZay **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222435718x1201460505/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick. net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Jun 19 12:26:22 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:26:22 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man References: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> Message-ID: <41213CB59DD84F02A77D1AE33F9A54A7@bellatrix> What the video is suggesting is rubbish. The likelihood of man being much older is very, very small. Dating artifacts is notoriously difficult; dating techniques for organic material are very sensitive to contamination, and geological dating is unreliable (artifacts can easily end up in unexpected strata). Dates are generally determined by looking at lots of examples, so that the statistical uncertainty can be reduced. Taking a very small number of outliers and basing your conclusions on them is generally poor science. What is it exactly that you are suggesting could be the case with meteoritics? Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "meteoritelist" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:12 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man > List, > I have two questions about this very interesting video that may be a bit > off topic. The questions are ; Could this possibly be true and does this > sort of thing happen in meteoritic's. see link below.Thank's. > Carl Esparza From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Fri Jun 19 12:48:46 2009 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:48:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact Earth Message-ID: <746747.83410.qm@web32503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, I've been hard at work over the past two weeks finishing up my latest video entitled "Impact Earth" It was done documentary style for a contest. You know the type - "what are you doing to change the world?"?type thing. So I thought whats better than meteorite hunters helping to save the world?? Like the 2012 movie it's pretty tongue in cheek and not meant to be taken too seriously. It's worth a look if only to check out Darren Garrison's awesome graphics! Darren has a future with Lucas films I'm sure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UUG5eWKEKo ?Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona My Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net My Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ My Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v From GeoZay at aol.com Fri Jun 19 12:50:18 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:50:18 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] More stupid media use of meteorites Message-ID: >>I'm not defending the inaccuracies in the movie, but sheesh. It's entertainment.<< Entertainment is fine, just as long as it doesn't provide the sole source of the general publics education. All sorts of weird things come about from that...such as reports of 14 year old boys getting hit by 35,000mph pebble sized glowing meteorites and live to tell about it. :O) GeoZay **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222435718x1201460505/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick. net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jun 19 14:06:50 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:06:50 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man In-Reply-To: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> References: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> Message-ID: <53kn35hu25f3avl9mn9ugmv2dc2bf1tfsr@4ax.com> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:12:03 -0400, you wrote: >Could this possibly be true Complete, utter, undiluted, unequivocated, barking at the moon bullshit. Insane, idiotic, paranoid woo. Incompetent, irrational nutbaggery. Need I break out a thesaurus and go on? >does this sort of thing happen in meteoritic's Do people come up with weird, woo-filled conspiracy theories and then have their paranoia reinforced by nobody with serious knowledge take them seriously? Yes, all the time. From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jun 19 13:14:02 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:14:02 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man In-Reply-To: <53kn35hu25f3avl9mn9ugmv2dc2bf1tfsr@4ax.com> Message-ID: <20090619131402.B4TJ4.458371.imail@fed1rmwml33> Thanks Darren, Now tell us how you really feel? LOL. Carl ---- Darren Garrison wrote: > On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:12:03 -0400, you wrote: > > >Could this possibly be true > > Complete, utter, undiluted, unequivocated, barking at the moon bullshit. > Insane, idiotic, paranoid woo. Incompetent, irrational nutbaggery. Need I > break out a thesaurus and go on? > > >does this sort of thing happen in meteoritic's > > Do people come up with weird, woo-filled conspiracy theories and then have their > paranoia reinforced by nobody with serious knowledge take them seriously? Yes, > all the time. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jun 19 14:32:26 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:32:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] More stupid media use of meteorites In-Reply-To: <4A3BB8D3.5060703@meteoritesusa.com> References: <29C47898E93A49D9976CAEF3C1162585@Gregor> <4A3BB8D3.5060703@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <5qln359ki3adj4obtequ3l5b7na5ehp3oh@4ax.com> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:12:03 -0700, you wrote: >Come on guys... It's a movie! And before you guys jump on me exclaiming >that the movie should be more scientifically accurate, and Hollywood is >only in it for the money I want to say. You're Right! There is an old adage I've heard somewhere long ago about writing-- many famous, talented writers do not strictly follow the rules of grammar that you have pounded into you in school. So why (ask students) do we have to follow the rules if they don't? The answer given is that you need to know the rules to be allowed to break them. That's the same thing I see with movies like this-- the best of Science Fiction usually contains things that aren't scientifically valid to support the story-- time travel and FTL travel being two of the main ones. But the authors KNOW that they are dealing with impossibilities (high improbabilities?) when they write the material and hope that they can write it well enough that the readers/watchers are willing to suspend disbelief for the sake of the story. Hollywood productions like this and the moon one, on the other hand, are the product of people too poorly educated to even know that the stuff they are producing is a load of garbage. I'm very confident that they are clueless to the physics they are trashing with their silly premises. Breaking the rules when you KNOW the rules when doing so fits your needs I can respect. Breaking the rules because you are too poorly educated to know them, I can't. From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jun 19 14:38:11 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:38:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] When the eye hits your moon... In-Reply-To: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> References: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> Message-ID: <3omn35tp7qktbi8lastd6ail4rfcdi53k9@4ax.com> http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/19/kaguyas-final-moments/ From astroroks at hotmail.com Fri Jun 19 13:36:40 2009 From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:36:40 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: 2012 Meteorite or not? Message-ID: From: astroroks at hotmail.com Subject: 2012 Meteorite or not? Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:28:24 -0500 Hello All... Long time reader, first time responder. Love the trailers and am looking forward to viewing. They are thought provoking, amusing and entertaining. But, what changes will we see during the 2012 winter solstice? I find it very interesting that the early Mayan, Egyptian, and Chinese astronomers picked that time for some kind of change or event. Oh, in one clip, I think I saw Farmer, Haag and Arnold running against the exiting masses of the city to get to the main mass...... Hope all have a Great weekend. Reloaded the GBII with fresh batteries and am ready. Dennis Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jun 19 13:11:22 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:11:22 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man In-Reply-To: <41213CB59DD84F02A77D1AE33F9A54A7@bellatrix> Message-ID: <20090619131122.CY76K.458292.imail@fed1rmwml33> Chris, I am asking not telling but here is yet another example that is 360 million years old? How many odd examples does it take? If two men say they are Jesus, one of them must be wrong. Right? see link. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.croponline.org/homoalaouite.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhomoalaouite%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG Carl ---- Chris Peterson wrote: > What the video is suggesting is rubbish. The likelihood of man being much > older is very, very small. Dating artifacts is notoriously difficult; dating > techniques for organic material are very sensitive to contamination, and > geological dating is unreliable (artifacts can easily end up in unexpected > strata). Dates are generally determined by looking at lots of examples, so > that the statistical uncertainty can be reduced. Taking a very small number > of outliers and basing your conclusions on them is generally poor science. > > What is it exactly that you are suggesting could be the case with > meteoritics? > > Chris > > ***************************************** > Chris L Peterson > Cloudbait Observatory > http://www.cloudbait.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "meteoritelist" > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:12 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man > > > > List, > > I have two questions about this very interesting video that may be a bit > > off topic. The questions are ; Could this possibly be true and does this > > sort of thing happen in meteoritic's. see link below.Thank's. > > Carl Esparza > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From GeoZay at aol.com Fri Jun 19 13:47:48 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:47:48 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man Message-ID: >>If two men say they are Jesus, one of them must be wrong. Right? << Do you mean THE JESUS or two guys named Jesus? :O) GeoZay **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222435718x1201460505/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick. net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Jun 19 13:53:22 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:53:22 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man References: <20090619131122.CY76K.458292.imail@fed1rmwml33> Message-ID: It takes a _lot_ more examples. If humans are millions of years old, I want to see as rich a fossil record of that as we have for thousands of other species. The reference describes a fossil skull, which may or may not be real (there is no peer review, and the images don't look like a real fossil). The author doesn't have any obvious qualifications in this area. He claims: "In July 2005, a small Primate skull was discovered in the desert of Tafilalet near Erfoud ( Morocco ). It was in the sand of a marble quarry where Devonian fossils were already found. Subsequently, the skull could be around 360 million years old." In other words, this object was not embedded in an existing matrix, but was simply in sand with old fossils. That is no basis for dating. I'd call the mummy reference a hoax. A little mummy that disappeared. They always disappear, don't they? Kind of like how Bigfoot radiates a mysterious aura that forces cameras to lose focus. And supposing it's real? Most of the experts who examined it thought it was a modern infant, not more than a few hundred years old. Without modern analysis, this purported mummy isn't even suggestive of anything interesting about human evolution. If two men say they are Jesus, then you might assume that one must be wrong. That's a limiting case. But realistically, the odds are very good that both are wrong. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "meteoritelist" ; "Chris Peterson" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Age of Man > Chris, I am asking not telling but here is yet another example that is 360 > million years old? How many odd examples does it take? > If two men say they are Jesus, one of them must be wrong. Right? > see link. > http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.croponline.org/homoalaouite.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhomoalaouite%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG > Carl From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri Jun 19 14:08:19 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:08:19 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Even More stupid media use of meteorites + Age of Man Message-ID: Hey Eric, Here's a possibility for Spielberg and Lucas. The German kid that got hit on his hand with a flaming meteorite is now 17. He is now a world famous archeologist/meteorite hunter and discovers artifacts under Table Mountain that is not only 55 million year old but mentions a giant asteroid will slam onto the Earth on Dec 21st. Meanwhile he meets a very aging Indiana Jones and together... Uh, Darren, Did I break too many rules? Carl, not so great screen writer _________________________________________________________________ Bing? brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 14:11:41 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:11:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Even More stupid media use of meteorites + Age of Man In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Edgar Cayce predicted all of this..... ;) On 6/19/09, Carl 's wrote: > > > > > Hey Eric, Here's a possibility for Spielberg and Lucas. The German kid that > got hit on his hand with a flaming meteorite is now 17. He is now a world > famous archeologist/meteorite hunter and discovers artifacts under Table > Mountain that is not only 55 million year old but mentions a giant asteroid > will slam onto the Earth on Dec 21st. Meanwhile he meets a very aging > Indiana Jones and together... > > Uh, Darren, Did I break too many rules? > > Carl, not so great screen writer > > _________________________________________________________________ > Bing? brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it > now. > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From astroroks at hotmail.com Fri Jun 19 14:34:31 2009 From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:34:31 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] 2012 Meteorite or not? Message-ID: Hello All... Long time reader, first time responder. Love the movie trailers and am looking forward to viewing. They are thought provoking, amusing and entertaining. But, what might we see during the 2012 winter solstice? I find it interesting and amazing that the early Mayan, Egyptian, and Chinese astronomers pick that time in history for some sort of change or event, thousands of years ago. Oh, look closely, in one of the clips I think I saw Mr. Farmer, Haag, and Arnold running against the exiting masses of the city, trying to get to the main mass first.... Have a Great weekend! I have my GBII loaded with fresh batteries and am outta here. Dennis _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jun 19 15:53:05 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:53:05 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man In-Reply-To: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> References: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:12:03 -0400, you wrote: >does this sort of thing happen in meteoritic's Speak of the devil and he doth appear. Here's a new bit of meteorite-related crazy pulled out of someone's exit vortex today: http://www.allnewsweb.com/page6946948.php Of course, even the "meteorite" explaination of this story is highly problematic. From mqfowler at mac.com Fri Jun 19 14:50:24 2009 From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:50:24 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Age of Man References: <02B839F8-0D53-4C0F-9D65-297CC74573BB@mac.com> Message-ID: If you read an article in a tabloid that stated that a human had successfully mated with a pig, would you immediately say that proves that everything we know about genetics is wrong? If an internet web site claims a 360 million year old fossil human skull with no way to verify the claim, why would any one immediately question all we know about the evolution of mammals, primates, and yes, even humans? Mike Fowler Chicago PS My father was an archaeologist who early on taught me to question absurd claims, with no evidence to back them up. http://www.jsonline.com/news/obituaries/32549639.html > Chris, I am asking not telling but here is yet another example that > is 360 million years old? How many odd examples does it take? > If two men say they are Jesus, one of them must be wrong. Right? > see link. > http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.croponline.org/homoalaouite.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhomoalaouite%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG > Carl From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jun 19 15:55:51 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:55:51 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man In-Reply-To: <0F27B4B16D6D4C2DB0465B637D1C6B5D@ASUS> References: <20090619131402.B4TJ4.458371.imail@fed1rmwml33> <0F27B4B16D6D4C2DB0465B637D1C6B5D@ASUS> Message-ID: <86rn355ost4345prsolmvrelesjdu6mh1t@4ax.com> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:32:20 -0400, you wrote: >So, if some information seems paradoxical, contradictory or fundamentally >unsound against the backdrop of the current rational melieu, SUSPENSION OF >JUDGEMENT might be the first utterance to postulate. >Just humbely "stick it away" into the vast resources of the brain lest we >stumble in an effort to retract words uttered in haste >Jerry Flaherty http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Galileo_fallacy From mqfowler at mac.com Fri Jun 19 14:08:42 2009 From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:08:42 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man Message-ID: <02B839F8-0D53-4C0F-9D65-297CC74573BB@mac.com> If you read an article in a tabloid that stated that a human had successfully mated with a pig, would you immediately say that proves that everything we know about genetics is wrong? If an internet web site claims a 360 million fossil human skull with no way to verify the claim, why would any one immediately question all we know about the evolution of mammals, primates, and yes, even humans? Mike Fowler Chicago PS My father was an archaeologist who early on taught me to question absurd claims, with no evidence to back them up. http://www.jsonline.com/news/obituaries/32549639.html > Chris, I am asking not telling but here is yet another example that > is 360 million years old? How many odd examples does it take? > If two men say they are Jesus, one of them must be wrong. Right? > see link. > http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.croponline.org/homoalaouite.html&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhomoalaouite%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG > Carl From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri Jun 19 15:23:43 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:23:43 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: 20% Ebay Sale Message-ID: Hey all, I just put most of the items in my Ebay store on Sale, 20% off for this weekend. Sale starts in a half an hour or so. Check them out here: http://stores.ebay.com/Steve-Arnold-Meteorites?refid=store Thanks, Steve Arnold of "Meteorite Men" **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) From dave at fallingrocks.com Fri Jun 19 15:23:04 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:23:04 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact Earth In-Reply-To: <746747.83410.qm@web32503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <746747.83410.qm@web32503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great stuff, Ruben...fantastic! Let us know how the contest turns out... All best, Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Ruben Garcia Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:49 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Impact Earth Hi all, I've been hard at work over the past two weeks finishing up my latest video entitled "Impact Earth" It was done documentary style for a contest. You know the type - "what are you doing to change the world?"?type thing. So I thought whats better than meteorite hunters helping to save the world?? Like the 2012 movie it's pretty tongue in cheek and not meant to be taken too seriously. It's worth a look if only to check out Darren Garrison's awesome graphics! Darren has a future with Lucas films I'm sure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UUG5eWKEKo ?Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona My Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net My Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ My Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From grf2 at verizon.net Fri Jun 19 14:32:20 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:32:20 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man References: <20090619131402.B4TJ4.458371.imail@fed1rmwml33> Message-ID: <0F27B4B16D6D4C2DB0465B637D1C6B5D@ASUS> The video's commentary describing "knowlwdge filter " rings true. Remember the reception by the then vaunted "Scientific Community's" of Alfred Wegener's classic of the mid 1920's "The Origin of the Continents and Seafloor Spreading" Utterly ridiculed, Wegener continued in his quest until his untimely death in Greenland gathering data in the form of fossils and rock samples from opposing once contiguous coastal regions. Fortunately not everyone dismissed Wegener and a network of cooperative allies provided substantial material allowing Wegner to republish several times always to a negative reception. A world war later, when submarines and sonar played a significant role, over 40 years after his death, Wegener was vindacated when some woman scientist surveyed the wealth of new geographic information sonar had inadvertently provided of the seafloor So, if some information seems paradoxical, contradictory or fundamentally unsound against the backdrop of the current rational melieu, SUSPENSION OF JUDGEMENT might be the first utterance to postulate. Just humbely "stick it away" into the vast resources of the brain lest we stumble in an effort to retract words uttered in haste Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Age of Man > Thanks Darren, Now tell us how you really feel? LOL. > Carl > > ---- Darren Garrison wrote: >> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:12:03 -0400, you wrote: >> >> >Could this possibly be true >> >> Complete, utter, undiluted, unequivocated, barking at the moon bullshit. >> Insane, idiotic, paranoid woo. Incompetent, irrational nutbaggery. Need >> I >> break out a thesaurus and go on? >> >> >does this sort of thing happen in meteoritic's >> >> Do people come up with weird, woo-filled conspiracy theories and then >> have their >> paranoia reinforced by nobody with serious knowledge take them seriously? >> Yes, >> all the time. >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Fri Jun 19 16:05:42 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:05:42 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man References: <20090619131402.B4TJ4.458371.imail@fed1rmwml33> <0F27B4B16D6D4C2DB0465B637D1C6B5D@ASUS> Message-ID: <07FDB6A9A1714E038B9A23BBD2AFD719@bellatrix> It is an urban myth that Wegener was ridiculed in any extreme way. He observed some interesting evidence but could not find a way to reconcile it and existing geological theory. So his ideas were- quite correctly- met with skepticism. He did not lose respect in the scientific community, and was able to secure funding for his projects until his death. While it is true that skepticism directed towards new ideas can slow down the acceptance of those ideas that ultimately prove correct, it also prevents science from spiraling out of control trying to prove or disprove every new thing that comes along. For every Wegener who is ultimately demonstrated correct, there are a thousand people with crazy ideas that will always be wrong (or more, in this day of the Internet). Even if more people had accepted Wegener's idea that the continents were once connected, it isn't clear that this would have changed the history of modern geology much. It still took a few more decades before the necessary technology came along to develop the tectonic theory underlying continental drift. Science did work, and the state of knowledge advanced. Yes, there's an element of truth in the "knowledge filter" idea. But just a tiny element. And its effect isn't to eliminate evidence, but to slow down its consideration. I've noticed that the more outlandish somebody's idea is, the more likely he is to complain of conspiracies and flaws in the scientific process suppressing new ideas. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Flaherty" To: ; ; Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Age of Man > The video's commentary describing "knowlwdge filter " rings true. > Remember the reception by the then vaunted "Scientific Community's" of > Alfred Wegener's classic of the mid 1920's "The Origin of the Continents > and Seafloor Spreading" > Utterly ridiculed, Wegener continued in his quest until his untimely death > in Greenland gathering data in the form of fossils and rock samples from > opposing once contiguous coastal regions. > Fortunately not everyone dismissed Wegener and a network of cooperative > allies provided substantial material allowing Wegner to republish several > times always to a negative reception. > A world war later, when submarines and sonar played a significant role, > over 40 years after his death, Wegener was vindacated when some woman > scientist surveyed the wealth of new geographic information sonar had > inadvertently provided of the seafloor > So, if some information seems paradoxical, contradictory or fundamentally > unsound against the backdrop of the current rational melieu, SUSPENSION OF > JUDGEMENT might be the first utterance to postulate. > Just humbely "stick it away" into the vast resources of the brain lest we > stumble in an effort to retract words uttered in haste > Jerry Flaherty From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri Jun 19 16:10:53 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:10:53 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man In-Reply-To: <02B839F8-0D53-4C0F-9D65-297CC74573BB@mac.com> References: <02B839F8-0D53-4C0F-9D65-297CC74573BB@mac.com> Message-ID: <4A3BF0CD.2090101@meteoritesusa.com> > If an internet web site claims a 360 million fossil human skull with > no way to verify the claim, why would any one immediately question all > we know about the evolution of mammals, primates, and yes, even humans? Most humans suffer from LBS or "Lazy Brain Syndrome." The lack of being able to think for themselves! ;) People are lazy! Lazy, lazy lazy... Did I mention that people are lazy? Most people would rather listen to what someone else says and take it as gospel than look up the answer themselves. They want to know what they know, and God forbid anyone disagree with them. Once an outside source doubts the accuracy of ones knowledge, natural instinctual defense mechanisms force the person "who knows" to defend his knowledge. Whether he's right or wrong does not matter at that point. It's natural human psychology to argue the point. Facts mean nothing, subjective assumption takes over, and sheer determination to prove you're right. Convincing takes precedence, and debate ensues. Who the hell wants to be told they are wrong?! -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 19 16:13:30 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:13:30 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man References: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> <53kn35hu25f3avl9mn9ugmv2dc2bf1tfsr@4ax.com> Message-ID: Hi, and here we go... Yes, the video is a whacko video; the authors of Forbidden Archaeology are whackoes, everything Darren said. But this is a case, all too common in the internet/media age, of whackoes exploiting a genuine issue for their own whacko enrichment. Forgetting for a moment about UFO's, Atlantis, and Charlton Heston with Alzheimer's (so sad), look at the evidence. Apart from the whacko Whitney relics, almost all the video was about the Hueyatlaco site and Steen-McIntyre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hueyatlaco The Heyatlaco site is not Steen-McIntyre's dig. Work was done there by many archaeologists and geologists; she was called in as a geologist whose specialty is dating. The others involved with the site have published quietly (but without dates) and no (big) problems. Steen-McIntyre, the dater, was left to defend her work, which she does. Who wouldn't? You can find her academic background and resume at the website about a related "old" site: http://www.valsequilloclassic.net/ The dating has been done over by "outside" experts with no archeological axes to grind, from NASA: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007AGUFMGP43A0925R They get the same dates she does... The dating has been done over by her opponents, who DO have archeological axes to grind, and they find the site to be "only" 80,000 to 220,000 years old, based on diatoms unque to the Sangamon Interglacial, instead of the 225,000 to 255,000 that Steen-McIntyre does! This is not a result they trumpet much, since they are all of the "nothing-older-than-22,000-years" school of thought. Fortunately for their equilibrium, evidence does not disturb them, it seems. All of these arguments about the age of human sites are about sites in The Americas. Apart from the usual egocentric exaggerations of paleoarchaologists, no one gives a big flip about such dates in Europe, Asia, Africa. Hand any of these 250,000-year-old flint tools to a European archaeologist (without telling them where it came from) and tell them it's 250,000 years old, and they would just shrug. They've seen lots just like it. "So what's the big deal?" they would ask. No, it's only in the Americas? Why is that? Well, it's simple. A few hundred years ago, Europeans flooded into the Americas, killing 90% of the locals by giving them unfamiliar European diseases, slaughtered and enslaved half the survivors, and drove the other half into isolated pockets and took over their continent. After it was safely done and a generation or two passed, they got sentimental, and then they felt really bad about it. First, in the nineteenth century, they decided the "natives" were recent European immigrants that degenerated into "savagery" or not (like the Mound Builders), descended from Prince Madoc's Welshmen or Vikings or whatever. Late in the nineteenth century it became obvious that the "locals" had come from Asia. That theory was the product of a man who would come to dominate the field for 40 years, Hrdlicka at Harvard. He maintained that the locals were very recent immigrants, having (mostly) arrived in the last 1500 years, starting about 500 AD, Yes, some small number might have gotten here around 500-1000 BC, but mostly in the last 1000 years before Europeans arrived. This took most of the sting out of the guilt of genocide. Peopling of the Americas became a close foot-and-boat-race, a draw almost, between some Asian savages and civilized Europeans, and naturally, the best race won (they thought like that). So for almost a half century, no site in the Americas was more than a few thousand years old. The problem was, this just wasn't true. People kept finding sites that were 6000 years, 8000 years, 10,000 years, 12,000 years old. Denounced as whackoes, of course, they held on until Hrdlika and all the old professors retired or died. Then, suddenly they were the "authorities." Human nature being what it is, they immediately set up shop running a "nothing-older-than-12,000-years" orthodoxy-and-inquisition business for the next 50 years. The problem was: this just wasn't true either. Then, they started to soften. An occasional "13,600 years" began to creep into the literature, then a slightly older date, and so forth. By now, the orthodox "nothing-older-than-12,000- years" school has turned into a "nothing-older-than- 22,000-years" school. Site-dating in the Americas is a psychological issue, not a strictly scientific one. It's complicated by social factors, emotional factors, political factors. It's complicated to the point of being a complete mess. And still, with heels dug into the dirt as science is slowly dragged backwards (which in this case, paradoxically, is progress), it goes on. The conflict is particularly sharp right now. Accepting "human" sites older than 40,000 years or so is a big problem, because if they are older than that, they are not the artifacts of "modern" humans, but "primitive" hominids. Now, if the prospect of really old humans is unsettling to American anthropologists, the thought of "pre-human" Americans is enough to drive them screeeaming up the nearest tree like panicked gibbons. So, we are back to the "wait-for-them-to-all-retire-or die" scenario. But, we have worked our way up to arguing about sites that are 65,000 to 80,000 years old. The arguments about the nature of 250,000-year-old sites are still some decades into the future (there are more than just this one). I won't live to see (or hear) it. Can you imagine the fuss when someone finds a site with dates that contain seven digits? I personally have no doubt they will turn up. There are a number of sites in eastern Yakutia (that's Siberia to us) that date back to 1.8 million to 2.1 million years. From there it's just a short 500-year wander to America. Hominids are ubiquitous over the entire planet Earth for the last two million years. Last time I looked, the Americas were on the Earth. For most of that two million years, the land connection of Beringeria was up to 1000 miles wide, no hills or other obstacles at all, all plains and grassland, us hominids' favorite walking country. QED. As we say in physics, it is "intuitively obvious." Finding any evidence is another matter. Strata that age has few exposures anywhere. If you don't have a big "cake-slice" like Africa's Rift Valley, you have to be lucky and find just The Right Spot, much harder to do. They did in Dmasi, Georgia, for example Not My Job. OK, this was massively Off-List, so please make your comments, criticism, evaluation of my naivite and idiocy, etc., off-list if you want. No, wait, I just looked and the List is already clogged with this topic. Never mind. Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Age of Man > On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:12:03 -0400, you wrote: > >>Could this possibly be true > > Complete, utter, undiluted, unequivocated, barking at the moon > bullshit. > Insane, idiotic, paranoid woo. Incompetent, irrational nutbaggery. > Need I > break out a thesaurus and go on? > >>does this sort of thing happen in meteoritic's > > Do people come up with weird, woo-filled conspiracy theories and then > have their > paranoia reinforced by nobody with serious knowledge take them > seriously? Yes, > all the time. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Fri Jun 19 16:35:11 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:35:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man References: <20090619131402.B4TJ4.458371.imail@fed1rmwml33><0F27B4B16D6D4C2DB0465B637D1C6B5D@ASUS> <07FDB6A9A1714E038B9A23BBD2AFD719@bellatrix> Message-ID: <4C07182A62AF4DD29021B7D29A13F101@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, Chris, List, Wegener was a meteorologist, not a geologist. He was working "outside his field," the ultimate crime. He could never get academic support (or a job) because he was not a geologist. Finally, an Austrian university created a chair of "meteorology and geophysics" for him, late in his life. He got good funding, but for his meteorological work, not geology. His theory was particularly dispised in the US, and he was widely ridiculed for it. A meteorologist! What's he up to? The prevailing theory was Land Bridges: "The scientific consensus was of sunken land and continents, now covered in oceans. This land had once provided a migratory path for the former flora and fauna, now found as fossils in diverse continents. Land, of course, was a permanent and unmovable feature of the earth's surface. Although it might sink, land could neither move nor be created afresh. The sunken land had, it was supposed, suffered from the effects of a 'cooling and contracting earth'. As the core of the earth cooled and contracted, its outer crust collapsed inwards. Mountains had thus arisen, and oceans formed in the depressions, covering the earlier land bridges." Along with the theory of continental drift, Wegener wrote many criticisms of the land bridge theory. This did not make him popular, either. I recall seeing many charts of "land bridges" in texts when I was in high school, narrow intersecting highways across the Pacific Ocean, with new ones added for every duplicate fossil species find. Silliest dam thing you ever saw. Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Peterson" To: Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:05 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Age of Man > It is an urban myth that Wegener was ridiculed in any extreme way. He > observed some interesting evidence but could not find a way to > reconcile it and existing geological theory. So his ideas were- quite > correctly- met with skepticism. He did not lose respect in the > scientific community, and was able to secure funding for his projects > until his death. > > While it is true that skepticism directed towards new ideas can slow > down the acceptance of those ideas that ultimately prove correct, it > also prevents science from spiraling out of control trying to prove or > disprove every new thing that comes along. For every Wegener who is > ultimately demonstrated correct, there are a thousand people with > crazy ideas that will always be wrong (or more, in this day of the > Internet). > > Even if more people had accepted Wegener's idea that the continents > were once connected, it isn't clear that this would have changed the > history of modern geology much. It still took a few more decades > before the necessary technology came along to develop the tectonic > theory underlying continental drift. Science did work, and the state > of knowledge advanced. > > Yes, there's an element of truth in the "knowledge filter" idea. But > just a tiny element. And its effect isn't to eliminate evidence, but > to slow down its consideration. I've noticed that the more outlandish > somebody's idea is, the more likely he is to complain of conspiracies > and flaws in the scientific process suppressing new ideas. > > Chris > > ***************************************** > Chris L Peterson > Cloudbait Observatory > http://www.cloudbait.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Flaherty" > To: ; ; > > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:32 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Age of Man > > >> The video's commentary describing "knowlwdge filter " rings true. >> Remember the reception by the then vaunted "Scientific Community's" >> of Alfred Wegener's classic of the mid 1920's "The Origin of the >> Continents and Seafloor Spreading" >> Utterly ridiculed, Wegener continued in his quest until his untimely >> death in Greenland gathering data in the form of fossils and rock >> samples from opposing once contiguous coastal regions. >> Fortunately not everyone dismissed Wegener and a network of >> cooperative allies provided substantial material allowing Wegner to >> republish several times always to a negative reception. >> A world war later, when submarines and sonar played a significant >> role, over 40 years after his death, Wegener was vindacated when some >> woman scientist surveyed the wealth of new geographic information >> sonar had inadvertently provided of the seafloor >> So, if some information seems paradoxical, contradictory or >> fundamentally unsound against the backdrop of the current rational >> melieu, SUSPENSION OF JUDGEMENT might be the first utterance to >> postulate. >> Just humbely "stick it away" into the vast resources of the brain >> lest we stumble in an effort to retract words uttered in haste >> Jerry Flaherty > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 19 16:45:43 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:45:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Even More stupid media use of meteorites + Age of Man Message-ID: <992095.16363.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> So... what... like a mining gang NEVER EVER pulled a prank on their mining engineer? Wind or water transported volcanic ash will date to the same age as the ash fall they are composed of when using Zircon and Uranium dates because mechanical transport doesn't reset the clock. Like most UFO/Atlantis/X-File-realm reports, inconvenient facts are omitted so as not to leave obvious doubts in the story line. And YES it does happen in meteorites. How many people have you helped ID a meteor wrong who dogmatically clung to the slimmest of unprovable and dubious "fact" while they ignored all evidence that showed their stone was not a meteorite? ( e.g. I know it was a train that hit my dog, I saw its tracks) The statement that "I found this rock in my yard and it wasn't there yesterday so it must be a meteorite" is not ipso facto valid. It only means that you do not remember seeing it there before you picked it up. Remember the Cardiff Giant? The Giant That Fooled the World ...the incredible tale of history's weirdest hoax When George Hull left his weed-choked, debt-ridden tobacco farm outside Binghamton, N.Y., and headed west in 1868 to seek better fortune, he thought maybe he'd go prospecting for gold. But he never reached gold country. On the way, 90 years ago, he stumbled on something more precious than the yellow metal: human gullibility. The result was one of the most successful scientific hoaxes in history. On a total investment that probably didn't top $4000, Hull netted a profit estimated at $30,000 to $60,000 -- a small fortune in those days. Hull's hoax was the famous Cardiff Giant -- a 12-foot statue of a man, secretly made, secretly buried, and then "discovered." Hull had a fabulous double-barreled lie to go with it: It was either a petrified man or an ancient statue -- take your choice. Not only the general public, but many learned men, paid to see it and swallowed it whole. Elton From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jun 19 18:23:12 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:23:12 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man In-Reply-To: References: <20090619121203.PFWT2.456793.imail@fed1rmwml33> <53kn35hu25f3avl9mn9ugmv2dc2bf1tfsr@4ax.com> Message-ID: <7t3o35dqb3u4e5na9cd4licqeot2qhlp3c@4ax.com> Here's another person featued in the clip: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Cremo From cynapse at charter.net Fri Jun 19 18:26:09 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:26:09 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Even More stupid media use of meteorites + Age of Man In-Reply-To: <992095.16363.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> References: <992095.16363.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:45:43 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >So... what... like a mining gang NEVER EVER pulled a prank on their mining engineer? > That brings this to mind: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1134/is_n3_v107/ai_20485364/ From GeoZay at aol.com Fri Jun 19 18:23:08 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:23:08 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man Message-ID: >>It is an urban myth that Wegener was ridiculed in any extreme way. << I first heard about Wegener's theory when I was in the 9th grade in 1961. I found a book in the school library that talked about it. Then I did not get the impression of any ridicule being directed his way. What I did get was that most people who heard about it agreed, but just didn't know how it actually happened and that someday the mystery will eventually be solved. GeoZay **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222435718x1201460505/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick. net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) From mikewren at gilanet.com Fri Jun 19 21:00:50 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:00:50 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Last Griffith Complete Slice-Auctions Ending, Auctions Started, Trades & Summer Fun! Message-ID: Hello, I am still interested in trades for my New Griffith meteorite, so do not be shy on offering me something. I have sold over 60% of what I started with...so it's getting down to the end of available Griffith. Also, this is the LAST Complete slice of Griffith available. 10 were created and 9 are gone! Here is the last- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200352378387 Here are a really great group of auctions, some ending tomorrow, others next Weds. Also check out the GOLD- pretty cool stuff. http://shop.ebay.com:80/merchant/meteorite-collector_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ Thanks and Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From mqfowler at mac.com Fri Jun 19 23:27:19 2009 From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 22:27:19 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man Message-ID: <9A988219-AA3E-4E8E-80E1-43DB14EEBB88@mac.com> Hi Sterling, It is a rare day that I ever have anything to add to your eloquent and informative posts, let alone disagree, but here goes...... Steen-McIntyre's dating as mentioned in the wikipedia link you supplied as well as everywhere else on the web is 250,000 years ago. The dating of the ash layer that is below (and therefore younger than her finds) is 40,000 years ago. (also from the link you provided) I could not disagree more when you say they get the same dating she does. Sincerely, Mike Fowler Chicago additional link with a fairly balanced view: http://books.google.com/books?id=jWgZPz6oXSwC&pg=PA106&lpg=PA106&dq=Hueyatlaco&source=bl&ots=rAPBgltpZU&sig=1BX2HlTLv9PDQzk5AJMGc1CnEQ4&hl=en&ei=vVM8Su_BBcOEtwfTtYUB&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4 > Hi, and here we go... > > Yes, the video is a whacko video; the authors > of Forbidden Archaeology are whackoes, everything > Darren said. But this is a case, all too common in > the internet/media age, of whackoes exploiting a > genuine issue for their own whacko enrichment. > > Forgetting for a moment about UFO's, Atlantis, > and Charlton Heston with Alzheimer's (so sad), > look at the evidence. Apart from the whacko Whitney > relics, almost all the video was about the Hueyatlaco > site and Steen-McIntyre. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hueyatlaco > The Heyatlaco site is not Steen-McIntyre's dig. > Work was done there by many archaeologists and > geologists; she was called in as a geologist whose > specialty is dating. The others involved with the site > have published quietly (but without dates) and no > (big) problems. Steen-McIntyre, the dater, was left > to defend her work, which she does. Who wouldn't? > > You can find her academic background and > resume at the website about a related "old" site: > http://www.valsequilloclassic.net/ > > The dating has been done over by "outside" experts > with no archeological axes to grind, from NASA: > http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007AGUFMGP43A0925R > They get the same dates she does... From bristolia at yahoo.com Sat Jun 20 09:28:23 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 06:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Free Online Downloadable PDF Files of Books on Geology of Isreal, Syria, Etc. Message-ID: <865430.87056.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Friends, You can download two large books about the geology of Isreal, Syria, Cyprus, eastern Mediterranean Sea, and so forth as PDF files in the "CYBAES manuscript downloads" at: http://www.cybaes.org/archive/downloads/index.html The "Geological framework of the Levant" consists of: 1. Krasheninnikov, V. A., Hall, J. K., Hirsch, F., Benjamini, C. & Flexer, A. (Eds.) (2005) Geological framework of the Levant, Volume I: Cyprus and Syria. Historical Productions-Hall, Jerusalem, Israel, pp. 498 [ pdf (55.6 MB) ], http://www.cybaes.org/archive/downloads/Hall2005/VolI.pdf 2. Hall, J. K., Krasheninnikov, V. A., Hirsch, F., Benjamini, C. & Flexer, A. (Eds.) (2005) Geological framework of the Levant, Volume II: the Levantine Basin and Israel. Historical Productions-Hall, Jerusalem, Israel, pp. 826 [ pdf (107 MB) ], http://www.cybaes.org/archive/downloads/Hall2005/VolII.pdf and 3, a number of plates at the bottom of this web page at: http://www.cybaes.org/archive/downloads/index.html Best regards, Paul H. From bristolia at yahoo.com Sat Jun 20 09:58:22 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 06:58:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man ( and scale cube appearance ) Message-ID: <542541.1564.qm@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Carl asked: "I have two questions about this very interesting video that may be a bit off topic. The questions are ; Could this possibly be true and does this sort of thing happen in meteoritic's. see link below. Thank's." This video is discussed in detail in " NBC's "The Mysterious Origins of Man" at: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mom.html A Review of NBC's "The Mysterious Origins of Man", by Glen Kuban at: http://paleo.cc/paluxy/nbc.htm / http://paleo.cc/paluxy.htm and another review in "NBC's Origins Show" at: http://www.csicop.org/sb/9603/origins.html My favorite part of the video is the mysterious stone spheres that this video mentions as having been found in from South Africa. They are discussed at: 1. Klerksdorp Spheres http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klerksdorp_Spheres 2, Heinrich, P.V., 2007, South African concretions of controversy: South African Lapidary Magazine. vol. 39, no. 1, pp. 7-11. at: http://www.onlineminerals.com/admin/my_documents/my_files/11A_South_African_Concretions_of_Controversy.pdf and 3. OOParts: Klerksdorp Spheres http://www.ooparts.us/klerksdorp-spheres.htm Notice the scale cube in the picture of Moqui marbles at: http://www.ooparts.us/images/klerks69.jpg Yours, Paul From fujmon at mac.com Sat Jun 20 10:36:22 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 04:36:22 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Weekend Cleanout Sale Message-ID: Aloha, I have some meteorites that I am willing to part with (due to type or specimen duplication). There is a wide variety with stuff for every budget, and all will be shipped within the US at no charge: http://astroday.net/meteorites4sale.html Oum Dreyga H3-5 4.94g individual $30 Chergach H5 6.63g individual $35 Bensour LL6 2.35g individual $25 NWA 4292 L6 22.2g individual $20 Wadi Melene (Sah 02500) L3.8 12.3g endcut $50 Zunhua 21g internal fragment *inquire* NWA 4439 CO3.3 1.3g slice $20 Murchison CM2 0.58g fragment $100 NWA 4685 CV3 7.9g endcut $60 NWA 5436 CV3 12.43g slice w/ CAI $60 NWA 4657 CK4 29.63g slice $350 NWA 1817 Mes 120g fat slice $360 NWA 4576 Mes 13g endcut $50 NWA 2126 Euc 6.4g partslice $25 Dhofar 910 Lun 0.252g partslice $180 Just send me an email or call (88) 640-9161 for more information or to order. I can accept payment by check, money order or Paypal. Mahalo for looking ... going surfin' now! Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Sat Jun 20 10:52:48 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 10:52:48 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian Hematite Spherules of Meridiani Planum Message-ID: <6680EDB86A0C4CC1A9AB57BB08991655@ET> Paul: Don't forget the Martian Hematite Spherules of Meridiani Planum: http://www.geocities.com/rlewis6/Spherules_MERB.htm From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Sat Jun 20 11:43:11 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 11:43:11 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian Hematite Spherules of Meridiani Planum Message-ID: In a message dated 6/20/2009 8:53:10 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com writes: Paul: Don't forget the Martian Hematite Spherules of Meridiani Planum: http://www.geocities.com/rlewis6/Spherules_MERB.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the meteorite JaH 073 there are very small spheres. My guess is they are micro concretions perhaps indicating a water action at some point in this find. Too small for direct observation. At a magnification of about 350X they show up nicely. They have been dismissed as chondrules, but I would say with as much certainty as is reasonable in such cases, they are not. Some are in my micrograph gallery (http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-gallery/meteorites-alpha_frame.htm ) under JaH 073 but if you like this sort of thing, just ask and I will send you more spherule shots. Tom Phillips **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jun 20 12:54:44 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 11:54:44 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian Hematite Spherules of Meridiani Planum In-Reply-To: <6680EDB86A0C4CC1A9AB57BB08991655@ET> References: <6680EDB86A0C4CC1A9AB57BB08991655@ET> Message-ID: On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 10:52:48 -0400, you wrote: >Paul: >Don't forget the Martian Hematite Spherules of Meridiani Planum: "Remember the Martian Hematite Spherules of Meridiani Planum!" would make an awesome rallying cry. From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat Jun 20 12:56:24 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:56:24 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Biggest Known Tatahouine Specimen? Message-ID: Hi Listees! I was just thinking about everyone's favorite green diogenite, and I was wondering - what is the BIGGEST known Tata specimen in existence? Pieces over 10 grams seem to be rare. Pieces over 20 or 30 grams are exceptionally rare. But how much bigger does Tata go? Are there any 1-kilo pieces hiding in someone's stockpile? Does anyone own a Tatahouine the size of a football? And if so, what is it worth on today's market? Clear skies! MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Sat Jun 20 13:15:37 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:15:37 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian Hematite Spherules of Meridiani Planum & A Meteoritic Message From Yahweh Message-ID: Darren: That's hilarious! Tom: It's been awhile since I visited your website, those are some incredible micro photographs! I especially like the orderly rows of crosses found in the JaH 055 Crystal shots. Those are definitely the coolest chondrules in the world! Or a message from God, like the Jesus pictures found inside meteorites and on tortillas? Phil Whitmer From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Sat Jun 20 13:19:32 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:19:32 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Jah 055 Message-ID: <156DA76E46534CA4B9130EC8FA318798@ET> I forgot to add: Jah is the Rastafarian term for God. Coincidence or.....................? Phil Whitmer From mqfowler at mac.com Sat Jun 20 14:45:05 2009 From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:45:05 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diable vs Campo Del Cielo Message-ID: <3A969CFF-BDF6-4B49-8061-9C877E62AA48@mac.com> I noted the following auction for a 20 lb canyon diablo meteorite. http://cgi.ebay.com/Canyon-Diablo-Meteorite-HUGE-20-LB-Heart-Shaped_W0QQitemZ250448493729QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a4fe4bca1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 The price is pretty low (too low?), and the pitted surface reminds me more of a Campo del Cielo, Any one care to comment? Mike Fowler Chicago From fujmon at mac.com Sat Jun 20 17:18:48 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 11:18:48 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Getting rust off membranebox polyurethane Message-ID: <99E8D2E1-E876-49A7-92C1-383AB10121DA@mac.com> Aloha, Living in humid, salt-spray laden atmosphere in Hawaii, I have had some challenges with oxidation of my iron, stony-iron, and even some chondrite meteorites. Many have weeped ferrous oxide, staining the polyurethane membrane with rust. Ugh. I've tried cleaning it off with alcohol to no avail. Has anyone cleaned rust off their membrane boxes, and if so what have you used? Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Sat Jun 20 17:32:35 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:32:35 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo Message-ID: <53EF50723EBC4121A29A554B1AC7D920@ET> Hello Michael: To me this actually does look more like a Canyon Diablo than a Campo, but if you consider the source; MetList persona non grata Bob Evans, then no, I wouldn't believe anything he says. Coming from Bob, who has a history of misrepresenting meteorites, I would be extremely cautious about anything he offers. Phil Whitmer From dbeatty3 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 20 18:16:13 2009 From: dbeatty3 at earthlink.net (Dennis Beatty) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:16:13 -0700 (GMT-07:00) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites for sale Message-ID: <25509970.1245536174084.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hello, I would like to sell the following specimens. The prices are negotiable...particularly on multiple lots. Acrylic Pyramid with "speck" of Zagami $95 Glorieta Mountain 12.8 gram $125 Gold Basin 37.9 gram $50 Gold Basin 20 gram $15 Henbury etched slice 65 gram $100 NWA 753 .98 gram part slice $10 NWA 4710 204 gram $600 Oum Dreyga 48 gram 95%+ fusion crust $295 Oum Rockba 36 gram $25 Sikhote-Alin 80 gram $225 (shaped roughly like a comet with with large depression on leading face) Taza 35.9 gram endpiece $185 Georgiaite 4.03 gram $425 Libyan Desert Glass 12 gram $30 From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com Sat Jun 20 18:56:18 2009 From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite index with photos Message-ID: <587107.88929.qm@web43407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hello listees, I made a meteorite index on the SkyRock Cafe. It list meteorites with a pics and usually a little info on when, where, it fell/was found and the class of it along with a pic or two. I hope everyone enjoys it and maybe could add a meteorite or two that have not yet been added. It is a new area on the SkyRock Cafe so there are not too many yet, but there are some nice ones with some cool pics. http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?catselect=meteorite_classes Best Wishes, Joe Kerchner From rhartman04 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 20 19:08:50 2009 From: rhartman04 at earthlink.net (R N Hartman) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:08:50 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Getting rust off membranebox polyurethane References: <99E8D2E1-E876-49A7-92C1-383AB10121DA@mac.com> Message-ID: <001801c9f1fc$13849b40$6401a8c0@DBZC5NB1> Unfortunately the polyurethane membrane does not take well to oozing blobs of toxic ferrous oxide. Meteorites should be "dried out" i.e. the contaminents removed before placing into the membrane box. There are various methods that have been discussed on the list and elsewhere. For Irons, please refer to our article by Jim Hartman in Meteorite Times, Meteorites 101, V.1, No. 8 http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2002/November/index.htm If you have a larger, more expensive, membrane box, it may be cost-effective to return the box to us and for a small fee, usually about $1.50 or so per box, plus shipping cost back to you, we will replace your membrane with a new membrane. (This is actually below our cost, but a service we provide for our clients on the meteorite list) If you have several smaller boxes, it may also be cost effective to ship several back to us at the same time, contingent on what your shipping cost, would be both ways. This could be better than trashing a box entirely. Other services: replacement of broken hinges and latches or changing the color of a latch, 50 cents per hinge or latch per box (plus shipping back to you), or you can buy replacement hinges or latches in yellow, blue or colorless, for 25 cts. ea. and replace them yourself. We cannot magically remove scratches, blemishes, and damage from other tragic events such as you boxes falling off of a high shelf onto a cement floor during a large earthquake (altho most boxes do pretty well if they fall from a low shelf onto a carpet!). Please advise us if you decide to return any boxes for repair. Our shipping facility has relocated from Crestline, CA to Apple Valley, CA. and is expanding in size. Our business office remains in Walnut, CA. On-line addresses remain the same. Ron Hartman membranebox at earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Fujihara" To: "MeteorList" Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:18 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Getting rust off membranebox polyurethane > Aloha, > > Living in humid, salt-spray laden atmosphere in Hawaii, I have had some > challenges with oxidation of my iron, stony-iron, and even some chondrite > meteorites. Many have weeped ferrous oxide, staining the polyurethane > membrane with rust. Ugh. I've tried cleaning it off with alcohol to no > avail. Has anyone cleaned rust off their membrane boxes, and if so what > have you used? > > Gary Fujihara > AstroDay Institute > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > http://astroday.net > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From John at Cabassi.net Sat Jun 20 19:42:57 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:42:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Test (delete) Message-ID: <000701c9f200$d7d21140$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2> From John at Cabassi.net Sat Jun 20 19:45:17 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:45:17 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo Message-ID: <000b01c9f201$2aae12b0$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2> G'Day List Sorry, I'm having problems with the list, once again. So I'm trying something different. Thank you for your time and patience. Cheers John -----Original Message----- From: John.L.Cabassi [mailto:John at Cabassi.net] Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:47 PM To: 'JoshuaTreeMuseum'; 'meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com' Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo G'Day Michael and Phil This might help http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130311955059&ssPageNa me=ADME:B:EOIBUAA:US:1123 Cheers John -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of JoshuaTreeMuseum Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:33 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo Hello Michael: To me this actually does look more like a Canyon Diablo than a Campo, but if you consider the source; MetList persona non grata Bob Evans, then no, I wouldn't believe anything he says. Coming from Bob, who has a history of misrepresenting meteorites, I would be extremely cautious about anything he offers. Phil Whitmer ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat Jun 20 19:49:31 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:49:31 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite Message-ID: <4A3D758B.4030402@meteoritesusa.com> Hi List, Don't laugh! This is weird... While slicing some unclassified chondrite meteorites I noticed one meteorite that was particularly odoriferous. I don't really want to say "what" this piece smells like as I don't know if it's appropriate list content. Let's just say that dogs lift their leg to fire hydrants, and maybe, sometime in the past, this stone just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The smell was super intense while cutting. At first I didn't know where it was coming from, then when I finished the cut, I actually smelled the stone to see if that's where the odor was originating. Sure enough! Yuck! I've cleaned the stone throughly. No amount of cleaning will remove the smell. It's definitely coming from within the meteorite itself. Has anyone else had any of their NWA stone meteorites that smell really bad? -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com Sat Jun 20 19:58:17 2009 From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:58:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite Message-ID: <749482.28213.qm@web43413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Eric, Does the matrix look normal or could it be a carb chondrite? I have heard of some CC's that have unusual smells. could you post a link to a photo? Thanks, Joe Kerchner http://skyrockcafe.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Meteorites USA To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:49:31 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite Hi List, Don't laugh! This is weird... While slicing some unclassified chondrite meteorites I noticed one meteorite that was particularly odoriferous. I don't really want to say "what" this piece smells like as I don't know if it's appropriate list content. Let's just say that dogs lift their leg to fire hydrants, and maybe, sometime in the past, this stone just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The smell was super intense while cutting. At first I didn't know where it was coming from, then when I finished the cut, I actually smelled the stone to see if that's where the odor was originating. Sure enough! Yuck! I've cleaned the stone throughly. No amount of cleaning will remove the smell. It's definitely coming from within the meteorite itself. Has anyone else had any of their NWA stone meteorites that smell really bad? -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From John at Cabassi.net Sat Jun 20 17:47:00 2009 From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:47:00 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo In-Reply-To: <53EF50723EBC4121A29A554B1AC7D920@ET> Message-ID: <000301c9f1f0$a4dcf940$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2> G'Day Michael and Phil This might help http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130311955059&ssPageNa me=ADME:B:EOIBUAA:US:1123 Cheers John -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of JoshuaTreeMuseum Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:33 PM To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo Hello Michael: To me this actually does look more like a Canyon Diablo than a Campo, but if you consider the source; MetList persona non grata Bob Evans, then no, I wouldn't believe anything he says. Coming from Bob, who has a history of misrepresenting meteorites, I would be extremely cautious about anything he offers. Phil Whitmer ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sat Jun 20 20:07:43 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite Message-ID: <307653.74539.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Perhaps its the first "Urineite"... I have had a few that had a rotten egg like smell, but never urine. Greg C. --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Meteorites USA wrote: > From: Meteorites USA > Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite > To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" > Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 7:49 PM > Hi List, > > Don't laugh! This is weird... > > While slicing some unclassified chondrite meteorites I > noticed one meteorite that was particularly odoriferous. I > don't really want to say "what" this piece smells like as I > don't know if it's appropriate list content. Let's just say > that dogs lift their leg to fire hydrants, and maybe, > sometime in the past, this stone just happened to be in the > wrong place at the wrong time. > > The smell was super intense while cutting. At first I > didn't know where it was coming from, then when I finished > the cut, I actually smelled the stone to see if that's where > the odor was originating. Sure enough! Yuck! > > I've cleaned the stone throughly. No amount of cleaning > will remove the smell. It's definitely coming from within > the meteorite itself. > > Has anyone else had any of their NWA stone meteorites that > smell really bad? > > -- Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat Jun 20 20:17:37 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:17:37 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite In-Reply-To: <920755.76427.qm@web43401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <4A3D758B.4030402@meteoritesusa.com> <920755.76427.qm@web43401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A3D7C21.8010203@meteoritesusa.com> Photos of stinky meteorite... http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/odd/unwa-31-0g-a.jpg http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/odd/unwa-31-0g.jpg Joe Kerchner wrote: > Eric, > Does the matrix look normal or could it be a carb chondrite? I have heard of some CC's that have unusual smells. could you post a link to a photo? > Thanks, > Joe Kerchner > http://skyrockcafe.com > From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sat Jun 20 20:18:20 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 20:18:20 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/Ensisheim_2009.html __________________________ Michael Johnson http://www.spacerocksinc.com http://www.rocksfromspace.org http://www.sikhote-alin.org **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585064x1201462784/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) From mikewren at gilanet.com Sat Jun 20 20:23:54 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:23:54 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite In-Reply-To: <307653.74539.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <307653.74539.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <647DDD97-D3C7-4D1E-883B-D06F391444C7@gilanet.com> Hello, In the early days when Mike Farmer and I where bringing over the very first batches of NWA's, I believe it was NWA 96? or NWA 90 something, somewhere around that number, we had one that upon cutting smelled like "Cotton Candy" It baffled everyone as to what the smell was or where it came from. It was distinct though and no doubt it came from within the meteorite. Some of you know which one I am talking about. The smell of that meteorite made me think of the county fairs I have been to! Since then I have come across many chondrites both carbonaceous and ordinary that have had distinct smells-smells like charcoal, gunpowder, bubble gum or cotton candy, acid like smells, paint smells, and other smells. A strange event and very hard to pin point down to the cause... Best Wishes Michael Cottingham http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history On Jun 20, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Greg Catterton wrote: > > Perhaps its the first "Urineite"... > I have had a few that had a rotten egg like smell, but never urine. > > Greg C. > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Meteorites USA wrote: > >> From: Meteorites USA >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite >> To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" > > >> Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 7:49 PM >> Hi List, >> >> Don't laugh! This is weird... >> >> While slicing some unclassified chondrite meteorites I >> noticed one meteorite that was particularly odoriferous. I >> don't really want to say "what" this piece smells like as I >> don't know if it's appropriate list content. Let's just say >> that dogs lift their leg to fire hydrants, and maybe, >> sometime in the past, this stone just happened to be in the >> wrong place at the wrong time. >> >> The smell was super intense while cutting. At first I >> didn't know where it was coming from, then when I finished >> the cut, I actually smelled the stone to see if that's where >> the odor was originating. Sure enough! Yuck! >> >> I've cleaned the stone throughly. No amount of cleaning >> will remove the smell. It's definitely coming from within >> the meteorite itself. >> >> Has anyone else had any of their NWA stone meteorites that >> smell really bad? >> >> -- Regards, >> Eric Wichman >> Meteorites USA >> http://www.meteoritesusa.com >> 904-236-5394 >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat Jun 20 20:24:41 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:24:41 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite + Photos In-Reply-To: <307653.74539.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <307653.74539.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A3D7DC9.7040604@meteoritesusa.com> LOL! Yeah... Neither have I... Urineite! Cool word... Thinking that maybe a camel or dog peed on it. ;) lol It seriously stinks! Really there's no describing the awful smell... Regards, Eric P.S. For those of you who haven't seen it here's the photos... http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/odd/unwa-31-0g-a.jpg http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/odd/unwa-31-0g.jpg Greg Catterton wrote: > Perhaps its the first "Urineite"... > I have had a few that had a rotten egg like smell, but never urine. > > Greg C. From grf2 at verizon.net Sat Jun 20 20:32:14 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 20:32:14 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo References: <000301c9f1f0$a4dcf940$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2> Message-ID: <89AE26D4B5CE476C9C98AE966C3DD70E@ASUS> Thanks John and Phil. I'd actually put this one on my "WATCH LIST". duh!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John.L.Cabassi" To: "'JoshuaTreeMuseum'" ; Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo > G'Day Michael and Phil > This might help > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130311955059&ssPageNa > me=ADME:B:EOIBUAA:US:1123 > > Cheers > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > JoshuaTreeMuseum > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:33 PM > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo > > > Hello Michael: > > To me this actually does look more like a Canyon Diablo than a Campo, > but > if you consider the source; MetList persona non grata Bob Evans, then > no, I > wouldn't believe anything he says. Coming from Bob, who has a history > of > misrepresenting meteorites, I would be extremely cautious about anything > he > offers. > > Phil Whitmer > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gmhupe at htn.net Sat Jun 20 20:44:45 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 20:44:45 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite References: <749482.28213.qm@web43413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40A87956EA7B4370BA458EE87EC912AC@Gregor> Hello Joe, and Members of the, "Cut One Club" (aka, ran into a smelly meteorite), As Michael mentioned before, we have run into stones, when cut, smelt just like that, a fart! We have had our share of "pee stones" and lets not forget the infamous multi-kilo, "Camel Stone", which had only rusted on one side, we found out later that this El Hammami stone had been transported by a camel, with the one side resting against the camels side the entire distance (didn't stink, but the influence upon the stone was noticeable). Funny thread! Anyone who has been to Morocco will know what we are saying, you never know what you will find on these stones!! I remember a batch of stones one clever Moroccan applied Coca~Cola to some ugly old chondrites in order to make the "crust" look fresher (wasn't Coke's phrase, "Freshen-up"...). Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Kerchner" To: "meteorite list" Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:58 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite > > Eric, > > Does the matrix look normal or could it be a carb chondrite? I have > heard of some CC's that have unusual smells. could you post a link to a > photo? > Thanks, > Joe Kerchner > http://skyrockcafe.com > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Meteorites USA > To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:49:31 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite > > Hi List, > > Don't laugh! This is weird... > > While slicing some unclassified chondrite meteorites I noticed one > meteorite that was particularly odoriferous. I don't really want to say > "what" this piece smells like as I don't know if it's appropriate list > content. Let's just say that dogs lift their leg to fire hydrants, and > maybe, sometime in the past, this stone just happened to be in the wrong > place at the wrong time. > > The smell was super intense while cutting. At first I didn't know where it > was coming from, then when I finished the cut, I actually smelled the > stone to see if that's where the odor was originating. Sure enough! Yuck! > > I've cleaned the stone throughly. No amount of cleaning will remove the > smell. It's definitely coming from within the meteorite itself. > > Has anyone else had any of their NWA stone meteorites that smell really > bad? > > -- Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mdavidhardy at yahoo.com Sat Jun 20 21:07:29 2009 From: mdavidhardy at yahoo.com (David Hardy) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:07:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite In-Reply-To: <647DDD97-D3C7-4D1E-883B-D06F391444C7@gilanet.com> References: <307653.74539.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <647DDD97-D3C7-4D1E-883B-D06F391444C7@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <730535.61374.qm@web110102.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Michael, You're probably be talking about NWA096, the slice I have smelled like Bazooka bubble gum, but the smell went away over time. David Hardy ----- Original Message ---- From: michael cottingham To: Greg Catterton Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:23:54 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite Hello, In the early days when Mike Farmer and I where bringing over the very first batches of NWA's, I believe it was NWA 96? or NWA 90 something, somewhere around that number, we had one that upon cutting smelled like "Cotton Candy" It baffled everyone as to what the smell was or where it came from. It was distinct though and no doubt it came from within the meteorite. Some of you know which one I am talking about. The smell of that meteorite made me think of the county fairs I have been to! Since then I have come across many chondrites both carbonaceous and ordinary that have had distinct smells-smells like charcoal, gunpowder, bubble gum or cotton candy, acid like smells, paint smells, and other smells. A strange event and very hard to pin point down to the cause... Best Wishes Michael Cottingham http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history On Jun 20, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Greg Catterton wrote: > > Perhaps its the first "Urineite"... > I have had a few that had a rotten egg like smell, but never urine. > > Greg C. > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Meteorites USA wrote: > >> From: Meteorites USA >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite >> To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" >> Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 7:49 PM >> Hi List, >> >> Don't laugh! This is weird... >> >> While slicing some unclassified chondrite meteorites I >> noticed one meteorite that was particularly odoriferous. I >> don't really want to say "what" this piece smells like as I >> don't know if it's appropriate list content. Let's just say >> that dogs lift their leg to fire hydrants, and maybe, >> sometime in the past, this stone just happened to be in the >> wrong place at the wrong time. >> >> The smell was super intense while cutting. At first I >> didn't know where it was coming from, then when I finished >> the cut, I actually smelled the stone to see if that's where >> the odor was originating. Sure enough! Yuck! >> >> I've cleaned the stone throughly. No amount of cleaning >> will remove the smell. It's definitely coming from within >> the meteorite itself. >> >> Has anyone else had any of their NWA stone meteorites that >> smell really bad? >> >> -- Regards, >> Eric Wichman >> Meteorites USA >> http://www.meteoritesusa.com >> 904-236-5394 >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From grf2 at verizon.net Sat Jun 20 21:08:12 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 21:08:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man ( and scale cube appearance ) References: <542541.1564.qm@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7FE58665F2034688A2D7FFA48CF255D2@ASUS> Thanks Paul for providing such extensive information. Forgive my earlier reluctance to accept what is now obvious. Nor did I grasp at the time in the Utube's brevity, the insideous nature and intent of the video. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul" To: Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:58 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Age of Man ( and scale cube appearance ) > > Carl asked: > > "I have two questions about this very interesting > video that may be a bit off topic. The questions are ; > Could this possibly be true and does this sort of > thing happen in meteoritic's. see link below. > Thank's." > > This video is discussed in detail in " NBC's "The Mysterious Origins of > Man" at: > > http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mom.html > > A Review of NBC's "The Mysterious Origins of Man", by Glen Kuban at: > > http://paleo.cc/paluxy/nbc.htm / http://paleo.cc/paluxy.htm > > and another review in "NBC's Origins Show" at: > > http://www.csicop.org/sb/9603/origins.html > > My favorite part of the video is the mysterious stone spheres that this > video > mentions as having been found in from South Africa. They are discussed > at: > > 1. Klerksdorp Spheres > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klerksdorp_Spheres > > 2, Heinrich, P.V., 2007, South African concretions of controversy: > South African Lapidary Magazine. vol. 39, no. 1, pp. 7-11. at: > > http://www.onlineminerals.com/admin/my_documents/my_files/11A_South_African_Concretions_of_Controversy.pdf > > and 3. OOParts: Klerksdorp Spheres > > http://www.ooparts.us/klerksdorp-spheres.htm > > Notice the scale cube in the picture of Moqui marbles at: > > http://www.ooparts.us/images/klerks69.jpg > > Yours, > > Paul > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From beardownbob at gmail.com Sat Jun 20 21:05:38 2009 From: beardownbob at gmail.com (Bob Holmes) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:05:38 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite In-Reply-To: <647DDD97-D3C7-4D1E-883B-D06F391444C7@gilanet.com> References: <307653.74539.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <647DDD97-D3C7-4D1E-883B-D06F391444C7@gilanet.com> Message-ID: <2bc48ad00906201805x38785279tef9a76d9e00957ae@mail.gmail.com> Hello Michael and List- It was indeed NWA 096. The smell was also likened to bubble-gum. The two slices I have both still retain some of that scent. It has a very interesting matrix with large orange clasts. Cheers, Bob Holmes On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 5:23 PM, michael cottingham wrote: > Hello, > > In the early days when Mike Farmer and I where bringing over the very first > batches of NWA's, I believe it was NWA 96? or NWA 90 something, somewhere > around that number, we had one that upon cutting smelled like "Cotton Candy" > It baffled everyone as to what the smell was or where it came from. It was > distinct though and no doubt it came from within the meteorite. Some of you > know which one I am talking about. ?The smell of that meteorite made me > think of the county fairs I have been to! Since then I have come across many > chondrites both carbonaceous and ordinary that have had distinct > smells-smells like charcoal, gunpowder, bubble gum or cotton candy, acid > like smells, paint smells, and other smells. ?A strange event and very hard > to pin point down to the cause... > > Best Wishes > > Michael Cottingham > http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history > > > > > On Jun 20, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Greg Catterton wrote: > >> >> Perhaps its the first "Urineite"... >> I have had a few that had a rotten egg like smell, but never urine. >> >> Greg C. >> >> --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Meteorites USA wrote: >> >>> From: Meteorites USA >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite >>> To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" >>> >>> Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 7:49 PM >>> Hi List, >>> >>> Don't laugh! This is weird... >>> >>> While slicing some unclassified chondrite meteorites I >>> noticed one meteorite that was particularly odoriferous. I >>> don't really want to say "what" this piece smells like as I >>> don't know if it's appropriate list content. Let's just say >>> that dogs lift their leg to fire hydrants, and maybe, >>> sometime in the past, this stone just happened to be in the >>> wrong place at the wrong time. >>> >>> The smell was super intense while cutting. At first I >>> didn't know where it was coming from, then when I finished >>> the cut, I actually smelled the stone to see if that's where >>> the odor was originating. Sure enough! Yuck! >>> >>> I've cleaned the stone throughly. No amount of cleaning >>> will remove the smell. It's definitely coming from within >>> the meteorite itself. >>> >>> Has anyone else had any of their NWA stone meteorites that >>> smell really bad? >>> >>> -- Regards, >>> Eric Wichman >>> Meteorites USA >>> http://www.meteoritesusa.com >>> 904-236-5394 >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat Jun 20 21:19:55 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:19:55 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite In-Reply-To: <40A87956EA7B4370BA458EE87EC912AC@Gregor> References: <749482.28213.qm@web43413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <40A87956EA7B4370BA458EE87EC912AC@Gregor> Message-ID: <4A3D8ABB.2010001@meteoritesusa.com> Hey Greg, (H) So you've had "pee stones" before? Did you ever find out what caused it or is it just a guess that something relieved themselves on the stone? Anyone ever do any chemical analysis of any of the "pee stones" or fart stones? ;) lol Eric Greg Hupe wrote: > Hello Joe, and Members of the, "Cut One Club" (aka, ran into a smelly > meteorite), > > As Michael mentioned before, we have run into stones, when cut, smelt > just like that, a fart! We have had our share of "pee stones" and lets > not forget the infamous multi-kilo, "Camel Stone", which had only > rusted on one side, we found out later that this El Hammami stone had > been transported by a camel, with the one side resting against the > camels side the entire distance (didn't stink, but the influence upon > the stone was noticeable). > > Funny thread! Anyone who has been to Morocco will know what we are > saying, you never know what you will find on these stones!! I remember > a batch of stones one clever Moroccan applied Coca~Cola to some ugly > old chondrites in order to make the "crust" look fresher (wasn't > Coke's phrase, "Freshen-up"...). > > Greg > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Kerchner" > > To: "meteorite list" > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:58 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite > > >> >> Eric, >> >> Does the matrix look normal or could it be a carb chondrite? I >> have heard of some CC's that have unusual smells. could you post a >> link to a photo? >> Thanks, >> Joe Kerchner >> http://skyrockcafe.com >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ---- >> From: Meteorites USA >> To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" >> >> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:49:31 PM >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite >> >> Hi List, >> >> Don't laugh! This is weird... >> >> While slicing some unclassified chondrite meteorites I noticed one >> meteorite that was particularly odoriferous. I don't really want to >> say "what" this piece smells like as I don't know if it's appropriate >> list content. Let's just say that dogs lift their leg to fire >> hydrants, and maybe, sometime in the past, this stone just happened >> to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. >> >> The smell was super intense while cutting. At first I didn't know >> where it was coming from, then when I finished the cut, I actually >> smelled the stone to see if that's where the odor was originating. >> Sure enough! Yuck! >> >> I've cleaned the stone throughly. No amount of cleaning will remove >> the smell. It's definitely coming from within the meteorite itself. >> >> Has anyone else had any of their NWA stone meteorites that smell >> really bad? >> >> -- Regards, >> Eric Wichman >> Meteorites USA >> http://www.meteoritesusa.com >> 904-236-5394 >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From pshugar at clearwire.net Sat Jun 20 23:12:34 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 22:12:34 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite References: <4A3D758B.4030402@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <910232776A5E44D8A1A60060062AFBE4@laptop> Maybe it was a camel in the desert or the rider!!!!!!! Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" To: Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:49 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite > Hi List, > > Don't laugh! This is weird... > > While slicing some unclassified chondrite meteorites I noticed one > meteorite that was particularly odoriferous. I don't really want to say > "what" this piece smells like as I don't know if it's appropriate list > content. Let's just say that dogs lift their leg to fire hydrants, and > maybe, sometime in the past, this stone just happened to be in the wrong > place at the wrong time. > > The smell was super intense while cutting. At first I didn't know where > it was coming from, then when I finished the cut, I actually smelled the > stone to see if that's where the odor was originating. Sure enough! Yuck! > > I've cleaned the stone throughly. No amount of cleaning will remove the > smell. It's definitely coming from within the meteorite itself. > > Has anyone else had any of their NWA stone meteorites that smell really > bad? > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat Jun 20 23:22:04 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 20:22:04 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite In-Reply-To: <910232776A5E44D8A1A60060062AFBE4@laptop> References: <4A3D758B.4030402@meteoritesusa.com> <910232776A5E44D8A1A60060062AFBE4@laptop> Message-ID: <4A3DA75C.5020109@meteoritesusa.com> This meteorite could have come from a rock cairn... Maybe a dog used a rock cairn as a rest stop. A nomad meteorite hunter could have come along searching for meteorites and there you have it! ;) Regards, Eric Pete Shugar wrote: > Maybe it was a camel in the desert or the rider!!!!!!! > Pete From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 21 00:30:21 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 23:30:21 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 69, Issue 44 References: Message-ID: <012901c9f228$ff143da0$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Re: Stinky Meteorite Eric, I think what Joe said; "I have heard of some CC's that have unusual smells." makes a lot of sense........ You could have a very valuable "New Meteorite" there on your hands. Remember the story about when Murchison landed in Australia, all the people said there was a strong odor in the air for a good length of time. Also, I was preparing my Mighei specimens last week and the smell and the black dust stayed on my hands until I thoroughly washed them and it stayed in the room for over a day and on a towel I use to wipe my hands off. You might need to get that classified with "Meteoric Speed" my friend! Re: Perhaps its the first "Urineite"... Thanks Greg, that was Great!!!! I needed a good laugh and that let out some stress! ;-) All the best to all of you!! Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 69, Issue 44 > Send Meteorite-list mailing list submissions to > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > meteorite-list-owner at meteoritecentral.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Meteorite-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Biggest Known Tatahouine Specimen? (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) > 2. Martian Hematite Spherules of Meridiani Planum & A Meteoritic > Message From Yahweh (JoshuaTreeMuseum) > 3. Jah 055 (JoshuaTreeMuseum) > 4. Canyon Diable vs Campo Del Cielo (Michael Fowler) > 5. Getting rust off membranebox polyurethane (Gary Fujihara) > 6. Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo (JoshuaTreeMuseum) > 7. Meteorites for sale (Dennis Beatty) > 8. Meteorite index with photos (Joe Kerchner) > 9. Re: Getting rust off membranebox polyurethane (R N Hartman) > 10. Test (delete) (John.L.Cabassi) > 11. FW: Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo (John.L.Cabassi) > 12. Stinky Meteorite (Meteorites USA) > 13. Stinky Meteorite (Joe Kerchner) > 14. Re: Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo (John.L.Cabassi) > 15. Re: Stinky Meteorite (Greg Catterton) > 16. Re: Stinky Meteorite (Meteorites USA) > 17. Ensisheim 2009 (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:56:24 -0400 > From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" > Subject: [meteorite-list] Biggest Known Tatahouine Specimen? > To: Meteorite List > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi Listees! > > I was just thinking about everyone's favorite green diogenite, and I > was wondering - what is the BIGGEST known Tata specimen in existence? > > Pieces over 10 grams seem to be rare. Pieces over 20 or 30 grams are > exceptionally rare. But how much bigger does Tata go? Are there any > 1-kilo pieces hiding in someone's stockpile? > > Does anyone own a Tatahouine the size of a football? And if so, what > is it worth on today's market? > > Clear skies! > > MikeG > > > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:15:37 -0400 > From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" > Subject: [meteorite-list] Martian Hematite Spherules of Meridiani > Planum & A Meteoritic Message From Yahweh > To: > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Darren: That's hilarious! > > Tom: It's been awhile since I visited your website, those are some > incredible micro photographs! I especially like the orderly rows of > crosses > found in the JaH 055 Crystal shots. Those are definitely the coolest > chondrules in the world! Or a message from God, like the Jesus pictures > found inside meteorites and on tortillas? > > Phil Whitmer > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:19:32 -0400 > From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" > Subject: [meteorite-list] Jah 055 > To: > Message-ID: <156DA76E46534CA4B9130EC8FA318798 at ET> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > I forgot to add: Jah is the Rastafarian term for God. Coincidence > or.....................? > > Phil Whitmer > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 13:45:05 -0500 > From: Michael Fowler > Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diable vs Campo Del Cielo > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Cc: Michael Fowler > Message-ID: <3A969CFF-BDF6-4B49-8061-9C877E62AA48 at mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > I noted the following auction for a 20 lb canyon diablo meteorite. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Canyon-Diablo-Meteorite-HUGE-20-LB-Heart-Shaped_W0QQitemZ250448493729QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a4fe4bca1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 > > The price is pretty low (too low?), and the pitted surface reminds me > more of a Campo del Cielo, > > Any one care to comment? > > Mike Fowler > Chicago > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 11:18:48 -1000 > From: Gary Fujihara > Subject: [meteorite-list] Getting rust off membranebox polyurethane > To: MeteorList > Message-ID: <99E8D2E1-E876-49A7-92C1-383AB10121DA at mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Aloha, > > Living in humid, salt-spray laden atmosphere in Hawaii, I have had > some challenges with oxidation of my iron, stony-iron, and even some > chondrite meteorites. Many have weeped ferrous oxide, staining the > polyurethane membrane with rust. Ugh. I've tried cleaning it off > with alcohol to no avail. Has anyone cleaned rust off their membrane > boxes, and if so what have you used? > > Gary Fujihara > AstroDay Institute > 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 > (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com > http://astroday.net > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:32:35 -0400 > From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" > Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo > To: > Message-ID: <53EF50723EBC4121A29A554B1AC7D920 at ET> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hello Michael: > > To me this actually does look more like a Canyon Diablo than a Campo, but > if you consider the source; MetList persona non grata Bob Evans, then no, > I > wouldn't believe anything he says. Coming from Bob, who has a history of > misrepresenting meteorites, I would be extremely cautious about anything > he > offers. > > Phil Whitmer > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:16:13 -0700 (GMT-07:00) > From: Dennis Beatty > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites for sale > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: > <25509970.1245536174084.JavaMail.root at elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > Hello, > > I would like to sell the following specimens. The prices are > negotiable...particularly on multiple lots. > > Acrylic Pyramid with "speck" of Zagami $95 > > Glorieta Mountain 12.8 gram $125 > > Gold Basin 37.9 gram $50 > > Gold Basin 20 gram $15 > > Henbury etched slice 65 gram $100 > > NWA 753 .98 gram part slice $10 > > NWA 4710 204 gram $600 > > Oum Dreyga 48 gram 95%+ fusion crust $295 > > Oum Rockba 36 gram $25 > > Sikhote-Alin 80 gram $225 (shaped roughly like a comet with with large > depression on leading face) > > Taza 35.9 gram endpiece $185 > > Georgiaite 4.03 gram $425 > > Libyan Desert Glass 12 gram $30 > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:56:18 -0700 (PDT) > From: Joe Kerchner > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite index with photos > To: meteorite list > Message-ID: <587107.88929.qm at web43407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Hello listees, > I made a meteorite index on the SkyRock Cafe. It list meteorites with a > pics and usually a little info on when, where, it fell/was found and the > class of it along with a pic or two. I hope everyone enjoys it and maybe > could add a meteorite or two that have not yet been added. > It is a new area on the SkyRock Cafe so there are not too many yet, but > there are some nice ones with some cool pics. > > http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?catselect=meteorite_classes > > Best Wishes, > Joe Kerchner > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:08:50 -0700 > From: "R N Hartman" > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Getting rust off membranebox > polyurethane > To: "Gary Fujihara" , "MeteorList" > > Message-ID: <001801c9f1fc$13849b40$6401a8c0 at DBZC5NB1> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=response > > Unfortunately the polyurethane membrane does not take well to oozing blobs > of toxic ferrous oxide. Meteorites should be "dried out" i.e. the > contaminents removed before placing into the membrane box. There are > various methods that have been discussed on the list and elsewhere. For > Irons, please refer to our article by Jim Hartman in Meteorite Times, > Meteorites 101, V.1, No. 8 > http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2002/November/index.htm > > If you have a larger, more expensive, membrane box, it may be > cost-effective > to return the box to us and for a small fee, usually about $1.50 or so per > box, plus shipping cost back to you, we will replace your membrane with a > new membrane. (This is actually below our cost, but a service we provide > for our clients on the meteorite list) If you have several smaller boxes, > it > may also be cost effective to ship several back to us at the same time, > contingent on what your shipping cost, would be both ways. This could be > better than trashing a box entirely. > > Other services: replacement of broken hinges and latches or changing the > color of a latch, 50 cents per hinge or latch per box (plus shipping back > to you), or you can buy replacement hinges or latches in yellow, blue or > colorless, for 25 cts. ea. and replace them yourself. > > We cannot magically remove scratches, blemishes, and damage from other > tragic events such as you boxes falling off of a high shelf onto a cement > floor during a large earthquake (altho most boxes do pretty well if they > fall from a low shelf onto a carpet!). > > Please advise us if you decide to return any boxes for repair. Our > shipping > facility has relocated from Crestline, CA to Apple Valley, CA. and is > expanding in size. Our business office remains in Walnut, CA. On-line > addresses remain the same. > > Ron Hartman > membranebox at earthlink.net > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Fujihara" > To: "MeteorList" > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:18 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Getting rust off membranebox polyurethane > > >> Aloha, >> >> Living in humid, salt-spray laden atmosphere in Hawaii, I have had some >> challenges with oxidation of my iron, stony-iron, and even some >> chondrite >> meteorites. Many have weeped ferrous oxide, staining the polyurethane >> membrane with rust. Ugh. I've tried cleaning it off with alcohol to no >> avail. Has anyone cleaned rust off their membrane boxes, and if so what >> have you used? >> >> Gary Fujihara >> AstroDay Institute >> 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 >> (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com >> http://astroday.net >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:42:57 -0700 > From: "John.L.Cabassi" > Subject: [meteorite-list] Test (delete) > To: > Message-ID: <000701c9f200$d7d21140$a166fea9 at anitak9bz49jy2> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:45:17 -0700 > From: "John.L.Cabassi" > Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo > To: > Message-ID: <000b01c9f201$2aae12b0$a166fea9 at anitak9bz49jy2> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > G'Day List > Sorry, I'm having problems with the list, once again. So I'm trying > something different. Thank you for your time and patience. > > Cheers > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: John.L.Cabassi [mailto:John at Cabassi.net] > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:47 PM > To: 'JoshuaTreeMuseum'; 'meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com' > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo > > > G'Day Michael and Phil > This might help > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130311955059&ssPageNa > me=ADME:B:EOIBUAA:US:1123 > > Cheers > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > JoshuaTreeMuseum > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:33 PM > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo > > > Hello Michael: > > To me this actually does look more like a Canyon Diablo than a Campo, > but > if you consider the source; MetList persona non grata Bob Evans, then > no, I > wouldn't believe anything he says. Coming from Bob, who has a history > of > misrepresenting meteorites, I would be extremely cautious about anything > he > offers. > > Phil Whitmer > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:49:31 -0700 > From: Meteorites USA > Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite > To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" > > Message-ID: <4A3D758B.4030402 at meteoritesusa.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi List, > > Don't laugh! This is weird... > > While slicing some unclassified chondrite meteorites I noticed one > meteorite that was particularly odoriferous. I don't really want to say > "what" this piece smells like as I don't know if it's appropriate list > content. Let's just say that dogs lift their leg to fire hydrants, and > maybe, sometime in the past, this stone just happened to be in the wrong > place at the wrong time. > > The smell was super intense while cutting. At first I didn't know where > it was coming from, then when I finished the cut, I actually smelled the > stone to see if that's where the odor was originating. Sure enough! Yuck! > > I've cleaned the stone throughly. No amount of cleaning will remove the > smell. It's definitely coming from within the meteorite itself. > > Has anyone else had any of their NWA stone meteorites that smell really > bad? > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 16:58:17 -0700 (PDT) > From: Joe Kerchner > Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite > To: meteorite list > Message-ID: <749482.28213.qm at web43413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Eric, > > Does the matrix look normal or could it be a carb chondrite? I have > heard of some CC's that have unusual smells. could you post a link to a > photo? > Thanks, > Joe Kerchner > http://skyrockcafe.com > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Meteorites USA > To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" > > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:49:31 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite > > Hi List, > > Don't laugh! This is weird... > > While slicing some unclassified chondrite meteorites I noticed one > meteorite that was particularly odoriferous. I don't really want to say > "what" this piece smells like as I don't know if it's appropriate list > content. Let's just say that dogs lift their leg to fire hydrants, and > maybe, sometime in the past, this stone just happened to be in the wrong > place at the wrong time. > > The smell was super intense while cutting. At first I didn't know where it > was coming from, then when I finished the cut, I actually smelled the > stone to see if that's where the odor was originating. Sure enough! Yuck! > > I've cleaned the stone throughly. No amount of cleaning will remove the > smell. It's definitely coming from within the meteorite itself. > > Has anyone else had any of their NWA stone meteorites that smell really > bad? > > -- Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:47:00 -0700 > From: "John.L.Cabassi" > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo > To: "'JoshuaTreeMuseum'" , > > Message-ID: <000301c9f1f0$a4dcf940$a166fea9 at anitak9bz49jy2> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > G'Day Michael and Phil > This might help > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130311955059&ssPageNa > me=ADME:B:EOIBUAA:US:1123 > > Cheers > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of > JoshuaTreeMuseum > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:33 PM > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Canyon Diablo vs Campo Del Cielo > > > Hello Michael: > > To me this actually does look more like a Canyon Diablo than a Campo, > but > if you consider the source; MetList persona non grata Bob Evans, then > no, I > wouldn't believe anything he says. Coming from Bob, who has a history > of > misrepresenting meteorites, I would be extremely cautious about anything > he > offers. > > Phil Whitmer > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:07:43 -0700 (PDT) > From: Greg Catterton > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: <307653.74539.qm at web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Perhaps its the first "Urineite"... > I have had a few that had a rotten egg like smell, but never urine. > > Greg C. > > --- On Sat, 6/20/09, Meteorites USA wrote: > >> From: Meteorites USA >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite >> To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" >> >> Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 7:49 PM >> Hi List, >> >> Don't laugh! This is weird... >> >> While slicing some unclassified chondrite meteorites I >> noticed one meteorite that was particularly odoriferous. I >> don't really want to say "what" this piece smells like as I >> don't know if it's appropriate list content. Let's just say >> that dogs lift their leg to fire hydrants, and maybe, >> sometime in the past, this stone just happened to be in the >> wrong place at the wrong time. >> >> The smell was super intense while cutting. At first I >> didn't know where it was coming from, then when I finished >> the cut, I actually smelled the stone to see if that's where >> the odor was originating. Sure enough! Yuck! >> >> I've cleaned the stone throughly. No amount of cleaning >> will remove the smell. It's definitely coming from within >> the meteorite itself. >> >> Has anyone else had any of their NWA stone meteorites that >> smell really bad? >> >> -- Regards, >> Eric Wichman >> Meteorites USA >> http://www.meteoritesusa.com >> 904-236-5394 >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:17:37 -0700 > From: Meteorites USA > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stinky Meteorite > To: Joe Kerchner , > "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" > > Message-ID: <4A3D7C21.8010203 at meteoritesusa.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Photos of stinky meteorite... > > http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/odd/unwa-31-0g-a.jpg > http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/odd/unwa-31-0g.jpg > > > > Joe Kerchner wrote: >> Eric, >> Does the matrix look normal or could it be a carb chondrite? I have >> heard of some CC's that have unusual smells. could you post a link to a >> photo? >> Thanks, >> Joe Kerchner >> http://skyrockcafe.com >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 17 > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 20:18:20 EDT > From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2009 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/Ensisheim_2009.html > > __________________________ > > Michael Johnson > http://www.spacerocksinc.com > http://www.rocksfromspace.org > http://www.sikhote-alin.org > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585064x1201462784/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JunestepsfooterNO62) > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > End of Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 69, Issue 44 > ********************************************** From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun Jun 21 00:35:23 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:35:23 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : Night Owl Specials - Late Night Deals - UNWA, Diablo, MAPS Journals, Micros, More. Message-ID: Greetings Late Night Meteorite Night Owls....!!! (or early birds tomorrow morning who will open this with their morning coffee!) Some late night specials for the night owls of the list. :) The ebay auctions are ending tomorrow night (sunday) at midnight. For the store links, please use the coupon code "nightowl" at checkout for a 25% discount off your entire order. :) Lunar and Martian Meteorites Display Kit - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290324374278 Darwin Glass - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290324381400 Meteorite Collector's Toolkit (scale, magnet cube, loupe) - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290324381627 Unclassified NWA Stone with black crust - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290324382793 Windowed UNWA Stone - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290324383404 Oriented Bullet UNWA Stone - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290324384162 Lot of tumble-polished UNWA Stones - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290324384806 Canyon Diablo Display Kit - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290324385578 Silicated Campo Iron Micromount - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=290324804433 Half Stone UNWA with crust - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126503/50-Crusted-73-gram-Half-Stone-Meteorite-with-Wind-Polish_779709.html "Comet" First Edition Hardcover by Carl Sagan - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/152033/Comet-by-Carl-Sagan--First-Edition-Hardcover-wDJ_808048.html MAPS JOURNALS - January 2009 - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/152033/MAPS--Journal-of-Meteoritics-Planetary-Science--Jan-2009_780189.html February 2009 - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/152033/MAPS--Journal-of-Meteoritics-Planetary-Science--Feb-2009_780197.html April 2009 - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/152033/MAPS--Journal-of-Meteoritics-Planetary-Science--Apr-2009_784436.html UNWA Endcuts (some with shock/melt) - Orange Matrix - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126503/Big-Colorful-Unclassified-Endcut-2--Nice-Matrix--98-grams_810751.html Orange Matrix - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126503/Big-Colorful-Unclassified-Endcut--Nice-Matrix--81-grams_810745.html Black/Brown - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126503/Nice-Dual-Lithology-UNWA-Endcut-2--ShockMelt_810732.html Black/Brown - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126503/Nice-Dual-Lithology-UNWA-Endcut--ShockMelt_810661.html Imilac Skeletons - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/162319/Imilac-Pallasite-Skeletons_798274.html NWA 801 CR2 micros and chondrules - http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/162319/Imilac-Pallasite-Skeletons_798274.html Make an offer on this UNWA whole stone - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/unwa%20trade/unwa-triangle-1.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/unwa%20trade/unwa-triangle-2.jpg Feel free to contact me offlist with questions, photo requests or offers - mike at galactic-stone.com Thanks for looking and clear skies! MikeG www.galactic-stone.com -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From lgarvie at cox.net Sun Jun 21 02:05:30 2009 From: lgarvie at cox.net (Laurence Garvie) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 23:05:30 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] stinky meteorite In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A while back I was dry cutting (slowly with a thin low-density diamond blade) a piece of Indarch, which produced a rather disagreeable odour. I put the smell down to the reaction of the finely powdered air- sensitive minerals such as oldhamite and niningerite with the moisture in the air. Laurence CMS ASU From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Sun Jun 21 04:07:56 2009 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 01:07:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] West trip report finally up Message-ID: <000f01c9f247$630806c0$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Happy Father's day to all you/us dads It's been quite a while since West but finally putting things together has brought it back like yesterday for me. If you care to travel back in time four months, here's your time machine http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/westhunt.htm Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/nakhladog ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sun Jun 21 04:15:20 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 01:15:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Assorted Meteorites and thin sections Message-ID: <210308.93492.qm@web46401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi to everyone, here is my ad for the week. I have several meteorites listed on ebay that end in under 24 hours. Items include lunar, martian and eucrite micros. Also listed are Tatahouine, Gao, Bassikounou, Camel Donga and the NWA 4734 Lunar that is left for sale. Off ebay prices: I will take $5500 for the 6g lunar slice off ebay. The .65g NWA 4734 is $600 and the .80g piece is $720 Tatahouine 1 gram lots are $10 off ebay. I also have some Camel Donga thin sections available for $90 each. I think thats about it for the week, view my ebay auctions here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1 Feel free to make offers by email on any material listed on ebay - off ebay I can do a bit better on prices. Greg C. www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com From meteorites at online.nl Sun Jun 21 11:34:05 2009 From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:34:05 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Lazarev relisted.... Message-ID: Dear Listoids, Antarctica meteorite Lazarev is relisted on Ebay, For those who are interested: http://cgi.ebay.com/LAZAREV-Antarctica-Meteorite_W0QQitemZ170346190743QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27a96c9797&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 Have a good one, Jan IMCA #9833 Holland From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com Sun Jun 21 14:19:21 2009 From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 11:19:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite index with photos In-Reply-To: <031501c9f227$42e01d80$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> References: <587107.88929.qm@web43407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <031501c9f227$42e01d80$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Message-ID: <300786.5675.qm@web43412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Unfortunately not, I took the pics at the field museum. I have added more meteorites and will be adding more often. Best, Joe K ----- Original Message ---- From: Rob Wesel To: Joe Kerchner Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:17:59 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite index with photos Ochansk, Marjalahti and Parnallee...are they yours? Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/nakhladog ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Kerchner" To: "meteorite list" Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 3:56 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite index with photos > > Hello listees, > I made a meteorite index on the SkyRock Cafe. It list meteorites with a pics and usually a little info on when, where, it fell/was found and the class of it along with a pic or two. I hope everyone enjoys it and maybe could add a meteorite or two that have not yet been added. > It is a new area on the SkyRock Cafe so there are not too many yet, but there are some nice ones with some cool pics. > > http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?catselect=meteorite_classes > > Best Wishes, > Joe Kerchner > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sun Jun 21 14:53:56 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 11:53:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Super Slices, Mega Slices & Some Breccias Message-ID: <4A3E81C4.8030707@meteoritesusa.com> Hi Everyone, We've listed some very special unclassified nwa meteorite slices and end cuts this week. One piece is a particularly nice brecciated specimen here: A Must See! View all our store items and auction items here: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/freel3orn All total we've got 76 meteorite slices and and cuts listed in our store and auction. Many items are ending tonight. Special Items: 36.5g Brecciated Meteorite [Part Slice] - Gorgeous light gray interior full of huge light and dark clasts sprinkled with fine to medium iron flecks! http://cgi.ebay.com/36-5g-SPECTACULAR-BRECCIATED-METEORITE-SLICE-NWA_W0QQitemZ250448193610 248g BIG Partial End Cut http://cgi.ebay.com/248-0g-AAA-QUALITY-METEORITE-NWA-END-CUT-HUGE_W0QQitemZ260432733213 73.9g Super Slice 0 Absolutely huge piece. A must have (limited material in stock) http://cgi.ebay.com/73-9g-AAA-QUALITY-SUPER-SLICE-METEORITE-NWA_W0QQitemZ250448193906 75.2g Part End Cut - Light Colored Matrix & Beautiful Shock Veins http://cgi.ebay.com/75-2g-AAA-QUALITY-METEORITE-SUPER-SLICE-NWA_W0QQitemZ260432138191 NOTICE: We've also lowered our shipping prices. In fact we revamped our entire auction template, and company shipping rates and policies to be more affordable for our customers. Details in the auctions. Good Luck & Happy Bidding! P.S. Deep discounts available for purchases of $500 or more. I have WAY more material than is listed in the auctions. Too much to list right now. Most pieces that are listed come from much larger meteorites that I have in inventory now. If there is a specific piece you like dealers should contact me off list for bulk pricing and to check available inventory. Educators: If you need pieces for study, learning labs or outreach groups I offer discounts for institutions. Details upon request. -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sun Jun 21 17:11:37 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:11:37 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/Ensisheim_2009.html __________________________ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323000x1201367220/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Sun Jun 21 17:22:48 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:22:48 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] West trip report finally up In-Reply-To: <000f01c9f247$630806c0$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> References: <000f01c9f247$630806c0$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Message-ID: Wonderful page Rob, hard to believe that so much time has flown past since we were all at West, as this meteorite will always be known to me regardless of the official name. Can't wait till the next one! Greetings to all from France where the Ensisheim show 2009 has ended today. Great fun with good friends of all nations. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jun 21, 2009, at 10:07 AM, "Rob Wesel" wrote: > Happy Father's day to all you/us dads > > It's been quite a while since West but finally putting things > together has brought it back like yesterday for me. > > If you care to travel back in time four months, here's your time > machine > > http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/westhunt.htm > > Rob Wesel > www.nakhladogmeteorites.com > www.facebook.com/nakhladog > ------------------ > We are the music makers... > and we are the dreamers of the dreams. > Willy Wonka, 1971 > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Sun Jun 21 23:57:03 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:57:03 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Low bar of entry for the Bundaberg Astronomical Society In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.news-mail.com.au/story/2009/06/22/no-answer-on-mystery-fire-starter/ No answer on mystery fire starter Kallee Buchanan | 22nd June 2009 THE mystery fire on Hazle Marland's Gaeta property is still burning - just like the questions about what started it. On Friday emergency crews rushed to Mrs Marland's property after reports something had fallen from the sky and started a fire. Crews were quick to rule out the possibility of a plane crash, but speculation about the cause goes on. ?It's still a mystery, there are a lot of rumours floating around but because it is so inaccessible I really don't think that we're ever going to get to the bottom of it,? Mrs Marland said. She said she had been inundated with phone calls on Saturday from media organisations and spectators wanting to go up to the site, as the news of the fallen object spread around the world. ?I was just astonished that they would show such interest,? Mrs Marland said. She said she hoped life would return to normal on the property, which is used for grazing cattle. ?I'm not encouraging anybody (to visit the site), because there is nothing to see,? Mrs Marland said. ?We're just hoping it isn't anything to be worried about and we don't think it is.? Bundaberg Astronomical Society member Don Gray said he suspected the mystery object was a meteor, and the lack of an impact crater did not rule it out. ?It would be very small, depending on the weight of it or what it was, whether it was metallic or just rock, whether when it hit the ground it exploded and dug up a lot of earth,? Mr Gray said. ?But it all burns, and that disguises things a bit.? He said tens of thousands of meteors, dust and space junk fell to earth every year, from pieces of old satellites to tools dropped by astronauts working on space stations. ?Most of it has never been found,? he said. ?If they find it they'll be able to determine what it is - some of these meteorites are made of a glass-like substance, some are made from iron.? A spokeswoman from UFO Research Queensland said her members had heard reports of flashes of lights and falling objects, but there was no clue what it may have been. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 22 00:50:30 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Scientists Bring Light to Moon's Permanently Dark Craters Message-ID: <200906220450.n5M4oUcY021597@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-099 NASA Scientists Bring Light to Moon's Permanently Dark Craters Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 18, 2009 PASADENA, Calif. - A new lunar topography map with the highest resolution of the moon's rugged south polar region provides new information on some of our natural satellite's darkest inhabitants - permanently shadowed craters. The map was created by scientists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., who collected the data using the Deep Space Network's Goldstone Solar System Radar located in California's Mojave Desert. The map will help Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite (LCROSS) mission planners as they target for an encounter with a permanently dark crater near the lunar South Pole. "Since the beginning of time, these lunar craters have been invisible to humanity," said Barbara Wilson, a scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., and manager of the study. "Now we can see detailed topography inside these craters down to 40 meters [132 feet] per pixel, with height accuracy of better than 5 meters [16 feet]." The terrain map of the moon's south pole is online at: http://www.nasa.gov/topics/moonmars/features/moon-20090618.html . Scientists targeted the moon's south polar region using Goldstone's 70-meter (230-foot) radar dish. The antenna, three-quarters the size of a football field, sent a 500-kilowatt-strong, 90-minute-long radar stream 373,046 kilometers (231,800 miles) to the moon. Signals were reflected back from the rough-hewn lunar terrain and detected by two of Goldstone's 34-meter (112-foot) antennas on Earth. The roundtrip time, from the antenna to the moon and back, was about two-and-a-half seconds. The scientists compared their data with laser altimeter data recently released by the Japanese Aerospace Exploration Agency's Kaguya mission to position and orient the radar images and maps. The new map provides contiguous topographic detail over a region approximately 500 kilometers (311 miles) by 400 kilometers (249 miles). Funding for the program was provided by NASA's Exploration Systems Mission Directorate. JPL manages the Goldstone Solar System Radar and the Deep Space Network for NASA. JPL is managed for NASA by the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. More information about the Goldstone Solar System Radar and Deep Space Network is at http://deepspace.jpl.nasa.gov/dsn . More information about NASA's exploration program to return humans to the moon is at http://www.nasa.gov/exploration . Media Contacts: DC Agle 818-393-9011 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. agle at jpl.nasa.gov Grey Hautaluoma 202-358-0668 Headquarters, Washington grey.hautaluoma-1 at nasa.gov 2009-099 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 22 00:53:22 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Successfully Launches Lunar Impactor (LCROSS) Message-ID: <200906220453.n5M4rMkE022257@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> June 18, 2009 Grey Hautaluoma/Ashley Edwards Headquarters, Washington 202-358-0668/1756 grey.hautaluoma-1 at nasa.gov, ashley.edwards-1 at nasa.gov Jonas Dino Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif. 650-207-3280 jonas.dino at nasa.gov RELEASE: 09-143 NASA SUCCESSFULLY LAUNCHES LUNAR IMPACTOR CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. -- NASA successfully launched the Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite, or LCROSS, Thursday on a mission to search for water ice in a permanently shadowed crater at the moon's south pole. The satellite lifted off on an Atlas V rocket from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla., at 5:32 p.m. EDT, with a companion mission, the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, or LRO. LRO safely separated from LCROSS 45 minutes later. LCROSS then was powered-up, and the mission operations team at NASA's Ames Research Center at Moffett Field, Calif., performed system checks that confirmed the spacecraft is fully functional. LCROSS and its attached Centaur upper stage rocket separately will collide with the moon at approximately 7:30 a.m. on Oct. 9, 2009, creating a pair of debris plumes that will be analyzed for the presence of water ice or water vapor, hydrocarbons and hydrated materials. The spacecraft and Centaur are tentatively targeted to impact the moon's south pole near the Cabeus region. The exact target crater will be identified 30 days before impact, after considering information collected by LRO, other spacecraft orbiting the moon, and observatories on Earth. "LCROSS has been the little mission that could," said Doug Cooke, associate administrator for NASA's Exploration Systems Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters in Washington. "We stand poised for an amazing mission and possible answers to some very intriguing questions about the moon." The 1,290-pound LCROSS and 5,216-pound Centaur upper stage will perform a swing-by maneuver of the moon around 6 a.m. on June 23 to calibrate the satellite's science instruments and enter a long, looping polar orbit around Earth and the moon. Each orbit will be roughly perpendicular to the moon's orbit around Earth and take about 37 days to complete. Before impact, the spacecraft and Centaur will make approximately three orbits. On the final approach, about 54,000 miles above the surface, LCROSS and the Centaur will separate. LCROSS will spin 180 degrees to turn its science payload toward the moon and fire thrusters to slow down. The spacecraft will observe the flash from the Centaur's impact and fly through the debris plume. Data will be collected and streamed to LCROSS mission operations for analysis. Four minutes later, LCROSS also will impact, creating a second debris plume. "This mission is the culmination of a dedicated team that had a great idea," said Daniel Andrews, LCROSS project manager at Ames. "And now we'll engage people around the world in looking at the moon and thinking about our next steps there." The LCROSS science team will lead a coordinated observation campaign that includes LRO, the Hubble Space Telescope, observatories on Hawaii's Mauna Kea and amateur astronomers around the world. Ames manages LCROSS and also built the instrument payload. Northrop Grumman in Redondo Beach, Calif., built the spacecraft. The LCROSS mission is providing updates via @LCROSS_NASA on Twitter. To follow, visit: http://www.twitter.com/lcross_nasa For more information about the LCROSS mission, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/lcross -end- From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 22 01:01:00 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images - June 15-19, 2009 Message-ID: <200906220501.n5M510jS023960@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES June 15-19, 2009 o Proctor Crater Dunes (Released 15 June 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090615a o Landslide (Released 16 June 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090616a o Southern Crater Dunes (Released 17 June 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090617a o Channel (Released 18 June 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090618a o Channel (Released 19 June 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090619a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From arizonakeith at cox.net Mon Jun 22 02:58:38 2009 From: arizonakeith at cox.net (Arizona Keith) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 06:58:38 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2009 on Youtube Message-ID: Hello List Just found this Video of Ensisheim Meteorite Fair 2009 Mike Framer, Alain Carion, Anne Black, and many others can be seen on it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2qP5LEaV80 My best to all. Keith V Chander AZ From meteorites at online.nl Mon Jun 22 08:55:00 2009 From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:55:00 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Park Forest, Garza stone relisted on Ebay Message-ID: <679096B2EB6149319EED979BF0CFCF4F@laptop> Hello Listoids, The 178 grams Park Forest - Garza stone is listed on Ebay........ http://cgi.ebay.com/Park-Forest-Garza-Stone-Meteorite-178-gr-Impact-Items_W0QQitemZ170347328870QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27a97df566&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 Enjoy, Jan IMCA #9833 From almitt at kconline.com Mon Jun 22 12:22:55 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:22:55 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: eBay Items Ending Soon In-Reply-To: References: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <1DABEE61C20C499B8853606E0F6AEEBA@StarmanPC> Greetings, Sorry if this comes up more than once. I have about 8 eBay auctions ending in about 24 hours including Lafayette, Indiana which is in a nice ryker display, along with a photo I took of the Lafayette Meteorite. I also have some historical Lost City which is one of the meteors that was photographed coming down and used to define where meteorites were coming from! Some nice Zag specimens, large slices. Powellsville, Ohio which has a low total weight and contains unique material in specimens researched. A really large Gibeon specimen 11.57 kilos (about 25lbs). A hugh Etter full slice which has really good surface area, shows a olive green color in sunlight. Probably one of the last big slices available on the market unless another specimen is cut. Also two more auctions ending in about 48 hours. You can see all my Ads here: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZ All my best! --AL Mitterling From almitt at kconline.com Mon Jun 22 12:10:18 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:10:18 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Ebay Auctions Ending In-Reply-To: <4A3E81C4.8030707@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A3E81C4.8030707@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <455D013F03E34A89A674ECF5088B7B66@StarmanPC> Greetings, I have about 8 eBay auctions ending in about 24 hours including Lafayette, Indiana which is in a nice ryker display, along with a photo I took of the Lafayette Meteorite. I also have some historical Lost City which is one of the meteors that was photographed coming down and used to define where meteorites were coming from! Some nice Zag specimens, large slices. Powellsville, Ohio which has a low total weight and contains unique material in specimens researched. A really large Gibeon specimen 11.57 kilos (about 25lbs). A hugh Etter full slice which has really good surface area, shows a olive green color in sunlight. Probably one of the last big slices available on the market unless another specimen is cut. Also two more auctions ending in about 48 hours. You can see all my Ads here: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet All my best! --AL Mitterling From bobadebt at ec.rr.com Mon Jun 22 13:30:27 2009 From: bobadebt at ec.rr.com (David Deyarmin) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:30:27 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Pallasovka, Ghubara and Uruacu available Message-ID: I have some Pallasovka, Ghubara and Uruacu available for sell. I am working long hours and don't have the time to fully process all of this material but if you are interested in any of it, let me know what you are looking for and I will prepare a few pieces and send you images so you can make the a decision on what you want. All prepared specimens will come with provenance cards. Here are some examples - I'm looking for ... a 10 gram polished fragment of Pallasovka a 5 gram un-polished fragment of Pallasovka a Pallasovka olivine crystal a 75 gram slice of Ghubara a 50 gram lot of Ghubara fragments a 20 gram clean Uruacu fragment a 1kg lot of un-clean Uruacu fragments If interested in anything, please contact me off list at bobadebt at ec.rr.com. If you live in the USA, and if you want, I can call you to discuss exactly what you are looking for Thanks _________________________________________________________________________________ PALLASOVKA I have about 105 grams of Pallasovka fragments available for $5 per gram for polished specimens and $3 per gram for unpolished specimens Here is a shot of the biggest fragments http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Pallasovka/Pallasovka1.jpg Here are 3 images of the largest polished fragment, it is 16 grams and is available for $80 http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Pallasovka/Pallasovka16grFrag1.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Pallasovka/Pallasovka16grFrag2.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Pallasovka/Pallasovka16grFrag3.jpg I might sell this as a wholesale lot, email me an offer and I will run it past Serge _________________________________________________________________________________ Here is size comparison picture http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Ghubara/GhubaraPallasovka.jpg _________________________________________________________________________________ GHUBARA I have about 2kgs of Ghubara slices available in sizes ranging from a few grams up to hand sized slices weighing 100+ grams Here is an image of a 32 gram slice that measures 50mm x 55mm, it is available for $32 http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Ghubara/Ghubara32gr.jpg I also have some fragments available for $1 per gram http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Ghubara/GhubaraFragments.jpg If you are interested in this material let me know the weight and apx size you are looking for and I will prepare a couple slices in that range. I will sell this in wholesale lots for 75 cents per gram I also have 300 grams dust that was created when I cut the main mass. It is not pure, it is contaminated with the plaster I set the mass in but it's cool and I will sell it for $5 for a 50 gram pouch _________________________________________________________________________________ I have a 4Kg of Uruacu Fragments ranging from a few grams up to 305 grams I can sell them "as is" for $0.90 per gram or I will clean them for $1 per gram. If you want a wholesale lot contact me for info, be sure to let me know what size lot you want Here is an image of a cleaned fragment http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Uruacu/85grFragment.jpg From meteoritefinder at yahoo.com Mon Jun 22 14:11:28 2009 From: meteoritefinder at yahoo.com (meteoritefinder at yahoo.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:11:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] West trip report Message-ID: <328172.58943.qm@web39601.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rob and List, ? ? Thanks a lot Rob for putting this report together for us all. Great job!? It was a lot of fun to re-live the memories of "The Hunt at West". I also enjoyed yours and Ruben's, and Doug's, articles in the current issue of Meteorite. The mix of different angles and perspectives from multiple authors for the whole event made for a very interesting read. A special thanks to Larry and Nancy, too, for choosing to include several different takes on the fall, all in the same issue. ( I have to add here that I have since learned that our contribution should have given more credit to Doug, Dima and Sergey for their work in also using the Doppler radar info just as we did to help pinpoint the fall area.) ? Best wishes to all, ???Robert Woolard??? --- On Sun, 6/21/09, Rob Wesel wrote: > From: Rob Wesel > Subject: [meteorite-list] West trip report finally up > To: "Meteorite List" > Date: Sunday, June 21, 2009, 3:07 AM > Happy Father's day to all you/us > dads > > It's been quite a while since West but finally putting > things together has brought it back like yesterday for me. >> > Rob Wesel > www.nakhladogmeteorites.com > www.facebook.com/nakhladog > ------------------ > We are the music makers... > and we are the dreamers of the dreams. > Willy Wonka, 1971 > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From bobadebt at ec.rr.com Mon Jun 22 13:25:10 2009 From: bobadebt at ec.rr.com (David Deyarmin) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:25:10 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Pallasovka / Ghubara / Uruacu Message-ID: I have some Pallasovka, Ghubara and Uruacu available for sell. I am working long hours and don't have the time to fully process all of this material but if you are interested in any of it, let me know what you are looking for and I will prepare a few pieces and send you images so you can make the a decision on what you want. All prepared specimens will come with provenance cards. Here are some examples - I'm looking for ... a 10 gram polished fragment of Pallasovka a 5 gram un-polished fragment of Pallasovka a Pallasovka olivine crystal a 75 gram slice of Ghubara a 50 gram lot of Ghubara fragments a 20 gram clean Uruacu fragment a 1kg lot of un-clean Uruacu fragments If interested in anything, please contact me off list at bobadebt at ec.rr.com. If you live in the USA, and if you want, I can call you to discuss exactly what you are looking for Thanks _________________________________________________________________________________ PALLASOVKA I have about 105 grams of Pallasovka fragments available for $5 per gram for polished specimens and $3 per gram for unpolished specimens Here is a shot of the biggest fragments http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Pallasovka/Pallasovka1.jpg Here are 3 images of the largest polished fragment, it is 16 grams and is available for $80 http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Pallasovka/Pallasovka16grFrag1.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Pallasovka/Pallasovka16grFrag2.jpg http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Pallasovka/Pallasovka16grFrag3.jpg I might sell this as a wholesale lot, email me an offer and I will run it past Serge _________________________________________________________________________________ Here is size comparison picture http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Ghubara/GhubaraPallasovka.jpg _________________________________________________________________________________ GHUBARA I have about 2kgs of Ghubara slices available in sizes ranging from a few grams up to hand sized slices weighing 100+ grams Here is an image of a 32 gram slice that measures 50mm x 55mm, it is available for $32 http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Ghubara/Ghubara32gr.jpg I also have some fragments available for $1 per gram http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Ghubara/GhubaraFragments.jpg If you are interested in this material let me know the weight and apx size you are looking for and I will prepare a couple slices in that range. I will sell this in wholesale lots for 75 cents per gram I also have 300 grams dust that was created when I cut the main mass. It is not pure, it is contaminated with the plaster I set the mass in but it's cool and I will sell it for $5 for a 50 gram pouch _________________________________________________________________________________ I have a 4Kg of Uruacu Fragments ranging from a few grams up to 305 grams I can sell them "as is" for $0.90 per gram or I will clean them for $1 per gram. If you want a wholesale lot contact me for info, be sure to let me know what size lot you want Here is an image of a cleaned fragment http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Uruacu/85grFragment.jpg From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 22 15:39:49 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:39:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's Mars Odyssey Alters Orbit to Study Warmer Ground Message-ID: <200906221939.n5MJdnTQ019251@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-100 NASA's Mars Odyssey Alters Orbit to Study Warmer Ground Jet Propulsion Laboratory June 22, 2009 PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA's long-lived Mars Odyssey spacecraft has completed an eight-month adjustment of its orbit, positioning itself to look down at the day side of the planet in mid-afternoon instead of late afternoon. This change gains sensitivity for infrared mapping of Martian minerals by the orbiter's Thermal Emission Imaging System camera. Orbit design for Odyssey's first seven years of observing Mars used a compromise between what worked best for the infrared mapping and for another onboard instrument. "The orbiter is now overhead at about 3:45 in the afternoon instead of 5 p.m., so the ground is warmer and there is more thermal energy for the camera's infrared sensors to detect," said Jeffrey Plaut of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., project scientist for Mars Odyssey. Some important mineral discoveries by Odyssey stem from mapping done during six months early in the mission when the orbit geometry provided mid-afternoon overpasses. One key example: finding salt deposits apparently left behind when large bodies of water evaporated. "The new orbit means we can now get the type of high-quality data for the rest of Mars that we got for 10 or 20 percent of the planet during those early six months," said Philip Christensen of Arizona State University, Tempe, principal investigator for the Thermal Emission Imaging System. Here's the trade-off: The orbital shift to mid-afternoon will stop the use of one of three instruments in Odyssey's Gamma Ray Spectrometer suite. The new orientation will soon result in overheating a critical component of the suite's gamma ray detector. The suite's neutron spectrometer and high-energy neutron detector are expected to keep operating. The Gamma Ray Spectrometer provided a dramatic 2002 discovery of water-ice near the Martian surface in large areas. The gamma ray detector has also mapped global distribution of many elements, such as iron, silicon and potassium. Last year, before the start of a third two-year extension of the Odyssey mission, a panel of planetary scientists assembled by NASA recommended the orbit adjustment to maximize science benefits from the spacecraft in coming years. Odyssey's orbit is synchronized with the sun. Picture Mars rotating beneath the polar-orbiting spacecraft with the sun off to one side. The orbiter passes from near the north pole to near the south pole over the day-lit side of Mars. At each point on the Mars surface that turns beneath Odyssey, the solar time of day when the southbound spacecraft passes over is the same. During the five years prior to October 2008, that local solar time was about 5 p.m. whenever Odyssey was overhead. (Likewise, the local time was about 5 a.m. under the track of the spacecraft during the south-to-north leg of each orbit, on the night side of Mars.) On Sept. 30, 2008, Odyssey fired thrusters for six minutes, putting the orbiter into a "drift" pattern of gradually changing the time-of-day of its overpasses during the next several months. On June 9, Odyssey's operations team at JPL and at Denver-based Lockheed Martin Space Systems commanded the spacecraft to fire the thrusters again. This five-and-a-half-minute burn ended the drift pattern and locked the spacecraft into the mid-afternoon overpass time. "The maneuver went exactly as planned," said JPL's Gaylon McSmith, Odyssey mission manager. In another operational change motivated by science benefits, Odyssey has begun in recent weeks making observations other then straight downward-looking. This more-flexible targeting allows imaging of some latitudes near the poles that are never directly underneath the orbiter, and allows faster filling-in of gaps not covered by previous imaging. "We are using the spacecraft in a new way," McSmith said. In addition to extending its own scientific investigations, the Odyssey mission continues to serve as the radio relay for almost all data from NASA's Mars Exploration Rovers, Spirit and Opportunity. Odyssey's new orbital geometry helps prepare the mission to be a relay asset for NASA's Mars Science Laboratory mission, scheduled to put the rover Curiosity on Mars in 2012. Mars Odyssey, launched in 2001, is managed by JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Lockheed Martin Space Systems is the prime contractor for the project. Investigators at Arizona State University operate the Thermal Emission Imaging System. Investigators at the University of Arizona, Tucson, head operation of the Gamma Ray Spectrometer. Additional science partners are located at the Russian Aviation and Space Agency, which provided the high-energy neutron detector, and at Los Alamos National Laboratories, New Mexico, which provided the neutron spectrometer. For more about the Mars Odyssey mission, visit: http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/odyssey . Media Contacts: Carolina Martinez/Guy Webster 818-354-9382/6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. carolina.martinez at jpl.nasa.gov / guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov 2009-100 From midwest at meteorman.org Mon Jun 22 22:58:38 2009 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:58:38 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Esquel 49.7g for sale References: Message-ID: Hello List, I have a gorgeous slice of Esquel (49.7g) for sale. http://www.meteorman.org/Esquel-49.7g.htm I will be taking offers for it the next 2 days Thanks, Tim Heitz From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 23 08:03:58 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 05:03:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] ensishiem update Message-ID: <760402.32964.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi all.After a 4 month self imposed exile,I decided it was enough.How did Ensishiem go? I saw a you tube video and some other pics,but not the whole experience.It is always nice to see our fine european neighbor's and how nice a show they put on over the pond. ?Steve R. Arnold From midwest at meteorman.org Tue Jun 23 10:45:26 2009 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:45:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Esquel 49.7g for sale References: Message-ID: I have better pictures now Hello List, I have a gorgeous slice of Esquel (49.7g) for sale. http://www.meteorman.org/Esquel-49.7g.htm I will be taking offers for it the next 2 days Thanks, Tim Heitz From fujmon at mac.com Tue Jun 23 10:16:45 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 04:16:45 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Cleanout Sale Message-ID: <582F0F34-068A-4117-93E9-FF2B445ABB01@mac.com> Aloha, I have some meteorites that I am willing to part with (due to type or specimen duplication). There is a wide variety with stuff for every budget, and all will be shipped within the US at no charge: webpage w/ pix: http://astroday.net/meteorites4sale.html NWA 4292 L6 22.2g individual $20 Wadi Melene (Sah 02500) L3.8 12.3g endcut $50 Zunhua 21g internal fragment *inquire* (not much of this material available) Murchison CM2 0.58g fragment $100 (fresh fragment ... smells like a Murchison) NWA 4685 CV3 7.9g endcut $60 NWA 5436 CV3 12.43g slice $60 (large CAI, gorgeous chondrules) NWA 4657 CK4 29.63g slice $350 (one of the freshest CK carbonaceous) NWA 1817 Mes 120g slice $360 (fat slab could be further sliced) NWA 4576 Mes 13g endcut $50 NWA 2126 Euc 6.4g partslice $25 Dhofar 910 Lun 0.252g partslice $180 (Hupe collection) Just send me an email or call (88) 640-9161 for more information or to order. I can accept payment by check, money order or Paypal. Mahalo for looking ... going surfin' now! http://astroday.net/meteorites4sale.html Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Tue Jun 23 13:30:20 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Camel Donga thin sections Message-ID: <408196.93609.qm@web46416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I had a few Camel Donga thin sections made, I know some of you all enjoy looking at thin section images. http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/Camel_Donga_1.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/Camel_Donga_2.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/Camel_Donga_3.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/Camel_Donga_4.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/Camel_Donga_5.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/Camel_Donga_6.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/CamelDongaTS2.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/CamelDongaTS1.jpg Greg C. www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 13:35:19 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:35:19 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Camel Donga thin sections In-Reply-To: <408196.93609.qm@web46416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <408196.93609.qm@web46416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nice work Greg. Thanks for sharing it. :) On 6/23/09, Greg Catterton wrote: > > I had a few Camel Donga thin sections made, I know some of you all enjoy > looking at thin section images. > > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/Camel_Donga_1.jpg > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/Camel_Donga_2.jpg > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/Camel_Donga_3.jpg > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/Camel_Donga_4.jpg > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/Camel_Donga_5.jpg > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/Camel_Donga_6.jpg > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/CamelDongaTS2.jpg > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/CamelDongaTS1.jpg > > Greg C. > www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From aknoefel at minorplanets.de Tue Jun 23 14:06:22 2009 From: aknoefel at minorplanets.de (=?iso-8859-1?q?=41=6e=64=72=e9=20=4b=6e=f6=66=65=6c?=) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:06:22 +0200 (MEST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2009 Message-ID: <200906231806.n5NI6Ml8007985@post.webmailer.de> Here are some additional pictures of the Ensisheim 2009 event: http://5117978.de.strato-hosting.eu/mediacenter/albums/image.html?album_id=2&index=2 Andr? -- IMCA #4122 MetSoc #5222 From mail at mhmeteorites.com Tue Jun 23 14:13:02 2009 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:13:02 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Museum quality specimens Message-ID: <657973306-1245780792-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2003345155-@bxe1050.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Here are a few "larger-ticket" items for your consideration. The prices are very reasonable, especially for the quality. Please EMAIL ME for the prices. 6,400 gram complete Gibeon-Lightly cleaned with the typical orange patina typical of Gibeon. This specimen could either be displayed or cut and etched. .image: 243 gram complete Millbillillie. This is an attractive piece with glossy fusion crust on one half and desert clay coating on the other side. Image: image2: 761 gram Allende end-cut-Super fresh, former King Collection specimen, collected right after the fall in 1969! Image: image2: 159 gram Esquel partial slice-Beautiful transparent yellow olivine crystals. Sweet piece. Image: Thanks, Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA From gibeon at aol.com Tue Jun 23 15:08:28 2009 From: gibeon at aol.com (Hanno Strufe) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:08:28 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] photos Ensisheim Meteorite Show 2009 Message-ID: <8CBC24D2085AEF0-770-DE9@webmail-mh05.sysops.aol.com> Hello, here are my photos from the Ensisheim Show last weekend. The weather was not the best, but beer and wine were good as always. It was nice to see all the friends and new collectors there. Take a look at the photos and you see what else was there. You will find the pictures on my website at http://www.strufe.net go with your mouse cursor on the top at ?Foto-Galerien? and the sign for Ensisheim-2009 is coming up, there you see the 6 pages on the right that include each 10 photos or copy the following link into your browser http://www.strufe.net/0334af9a5a0cf8e1d/0334af9c3213d0302/0334af9c3213de407/index.php Best regards Hanno Strufe Langenbergstrasse 32 66954 Pirmasens Germany Phone + Fax: +49 6331 225105 http://www.strufe.net Member of the Meteoritical Society IMCA Member # 4267 ________________________________________________________________________ AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. From mail at mhmeteorites.com Tue Jun 23 15:13:39 2009 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:13:39 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Museum quality specimens Message-ID: <2063629599-1245784429-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-352223591-@bxe1050.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Sorry about the intrusion, but it appears the links to the photos were broken. Here they are corrected: 6400g Gibeon 243g Millbillillie 761g Allende image2: 159g Esquel ------Original Message------ From: Matt Morgan Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com ReplyTo: mail at mhmeteorites.com Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Museum quality specimens Sent: Jun 23, 2009 12:13 PM Here are a few "larger-ticket" items for your consideration. The prices are very reasonable, especially for the quality. Please EMAIL ME for the prices. 6,400 gram complete Gibeon-Lightly cleaned with the typical orange patina typical of Gibeon. This specimen could either be displayed or cut and etched. .image: 243 gram complete Millbillillie. This is an attractive piece with glossy fusion crust on one half and desert clay coating on the other side. Image: image2: 761 gram Allende end-cut-Super fresh, former King Collection specimen, collected right after the fall in 1969! Image: image2: 159 gram Esquel partial slice-Beautiful transparent yellow olivine crystals. Sweet piece. Image: Thanks, Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA From almitt at kconline.com Tue Jun 23 15:08:56 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:08:56 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] ensishiem update In-Reply-To: <760402.32964.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <760402.32964.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Steve, Welcome back --AL ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve arnold" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:03 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] ensishiem update Hi all.After a 4 month self imposed exile,I decided it was enough.How did Ensishiem go? I saw a you tube video and some other pics,but not the whole experience.It is always nice to see our fine european neighbor's and how nice a show they put on over the pond. Steve R. Arnold ----- Original Message ----- On Tuesday, March 24, 2009 1:59 PM Steve Arnold Wrote: Hello folks. I will be brief and to the point.Because of the economy,bills piling up,and no job in sight,I have decided to put up a bunch of my meteorites for sale.I have 2 pages up on my website chicagometeorites.net/.Also this will be my final post to the list.After 10 years I am going away from it all.There is to much going on that will permit me to keep up this fine hobby.I also made a commitment to my wife that this would be final and so it shall. Once my sale is done my website will come down and I will susseed from this list.I have made alot of friends and a few not so friends along the way.But I will be forever grateful to all whom I have met.Also shipping will be extra as well.Again,this is steve arnold from Chicago signing off for good. Steve R.Arnold No#1!,Chicago! From majbaermann at web.de Tue Jun 23 15:37:51 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?utf-8?Q?Matthias_B=C3=A4rmann?=) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:37:51 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] photos Ensisheim Meteorite Show 2009 References: <8CBC24D2085AEF0-770-DE9@webmail-mh05.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4A5310AA102F4A46B2DD018ED82ECFC0@thinkcentre> Hanno & Andr?, thanks so much for posting your photos here - good opportunity to get at least the smell ... Best, Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hanno Strufe" To: Cc: ; ; Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:08 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] photos Ensisheim Meteorite Show 2009 > Hello, > > here are my photos from the Ensisheim Show last weekend. > The weather was not the best, but beer and wine were good as always. > It was nice to see all the friends and new collectors there. > Take a look at the photos and you see what else was there. > > You will find the pictures on my website at > > http://www.strufe.net > > go with your mouse cursor on the top at ?Foto-Galerien? and the sign for > Ensisheim-2009 is coming up, there you see the 6 pages on the right that > include each 10 photos > or copy the following link into your browser > > http://www.strufe.net/0334af9a5a0cf8e1d/0334af9c3213d0302/0334af9c3213de407/index.php > > Best regards > > Hanno Strufe > Langenbergstrasse 32 > 66954 Pirmasens > Germany > Phone + Fax: +49 6331 225105 > http://www.strufe.net > > Member of the Meteoritical Society > > IMCA Member # 4267 > > ________________________________________________________________________ > AOL eMail auf Ihrem Handy! Ab sofort k?nnen Sie auch unterwegs Ihre AOL > email abrufen. Registrieren Sie sich jetzt kostenlos. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Tue Jun 23 17:29:56 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:29:56 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 23, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_23_2009.html __________________________ **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377052x1201454391/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From gmhupe at htn.net Tue Jun 23 17:29:04 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:29:04 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Generous-Sized Auctions Ending - Wednesday - AD Message-ID: <1D847AE170BC4C9BB0FBDA4067744880@Gregor> Dear List Members, Starting tomorrow (Wednesday, June 24th), I have a number of generous-sized meteorite auctions ending on eBay. If you are into excellent deals for rare specimens, you will not want to miss out, these will go for some outstanding prices, just about all were started at 99 cents! Click here to see all of these: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Thank you for checking these out, and if you are bidding, "Good Luck"! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jun 23 19:57:29 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - June 18, 2009 Message-ID: <200906232357.n5NNvTJ4010092@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES June 18, 2009 o Valleys Carved into Elysium Mons http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013144_2075 o Sulfate and Clay Strata in Gale Crater http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012551_1750 o Defrosting Spots Over Polygonal Ground http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012506_0850 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jun 23 20:02:50 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:02:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Lunar Mission Successfully Enters Moon Orbit (LRO) Message-ID: <200906240002.n5O02oMU011003@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> June 23 2009 Grey Hautaluoma/Ashley Edwards Headquarters, Washington 202-358-0668/1756 grey.hautaluoma-1 at nasa.gov ashley.edwards-1 at nasa.gov Nancy Neal Jones Goddard Space Flight Center, Md. 301-286-0039 nancy.n.jones at nasa.gov RELEASE: 09-144 NASA LUNAR MISSION SUCCESSFULLY ENTERS MOON ORBIT GREENBELT, Md. -- After a four and a half day journey from the Earth, the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, or LRO, has successfully entered orbit around the moon. Engineers at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., confirmed the spacecraft's lunar orbit insertion at 6:27 a.m. EDT Tuesday. During transit to the moon, engineers performed a mid-course correction to get the spacecraft in the proper position to reach its lunar destination. Since the moon is always moving, the spacecraft shot for a target point ahead of the moon. When close to the moon, LRO used its rocket motor to slow down until the gravity of the moon caught the spacecraft in lunar orbit. "Lunar orbit insertion is a crucial milestone for the mission," said Cathy Peddie, LRO deputy project manager at Goddard. "The LRO mission cannot begin until the moon captures us. Once we enter the moon's orbit, we can begin to buildup the dataset needed to understand in greater detail the lunar topography, features and resources. We are so proud to be a part of this exciting mission and NASA's planned return to the moon." A series of four engine burns over the next four days will put the satellite into its commissioning phase orbit. During the commissioning phase each of its seven instruments is checked out and brought online. The commissioning phase will end approximately 60 days after launch, when LRO will use its engines to transition to its primary mission orbit. For its primary mission, LRO will orbit above the moon at about 31 miles, or 50 kilometers, for one year. The spacecraft's instruments will help scientists compile high resolution, three-dimensional maps of the lunar surface and also survey it at many spectral wavelengths. The satellite will explore the moon's deepest craters, examining permanently sunlit and shadowed regions, and provide understanding of the effects of lunar radiation on humans. LRO will return more data about the moon than any previous mission. For more information about the LRO mission, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/lro -end- From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Tue Jun 23 20:07:10 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Moon Impactor Successfully Completes Lunar Maneuver (LCROSS) Message-ID: <200906240007.n5O07A4M011698@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> June 23, 2009 Ashley Edwards/Grey Hautaluoma Headquarters, Washington 202-358-1756/0668 ashley.edwards-1 at nasa.gov, grey.hautaluoma-1 at nasa.gov Jonas Dino Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif. 650-207-3280 jonas.dino at nasa.gov RELEASE: 09-145 NASA MOON IMPACTOR SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETES LUNAR MANEUVER MOFFETT FIELD, Calif. -- The Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite, or LCROSS, successfully completed its most significant early mission milestone Tuesday with a lunar swingby and calibration of its science instruments. The satellite will search for water ice in a permanently shadowed crater at the moon's south pole. With the assist of the moon's gravity, LCROSS and its attached Centaur booster rocket successfully entered into polar Earth orbit at 6:20 a.m. PDT on June 23. The maneuver puts the spacecraft and Centaur on course for a pair of impacts near the moon's south pole on Oct. 9. "The successful completion of the LCROSS swingby proves the science instruments are functioning as expected. It is a testament to the hard work and dedication of the entire team" said Dan Andrews, LCROSS project manager at NASA's Ames Research Center at Moffett Field, Calif. "We are elated at the results from the maneuver and eagerly anticipate the impacts in early October." During its swing by the moon, the spacecraft's instruments were turned on and calibrated by scanning three sites on the lunar surface. These sites were the craters Mendeleev, Goddard C and Giordano Bruno. They were selected because they offer a variety of terrain types, compositions and illumination conditions. The spacecraft also scanned the lunar horizon to confirm its instruments are aligned in preparation for observing the Centaur's debris plume. "Each instrument returned good data that the science team will spend the next few weeks analyzing," said Anthony Colaprete, LCROSS project scientist at Ames. "These data will ensure we are as prepared as possible for monitoring and interpreting data we receive during impact." LCROSS and its attached Centaur upper stage rocket are now in a long, looping polar orbit around Earth and the moon. Each orbit will be roughly perpendicular to the moon's orbit around Earth and take about 37 days to complete. Before impact, the spacecraft and Centaur will make approximately three orbits. LCROSS and the Centaur separately will collide with the moon at approximately 7:30 a.m. EDT on Oct. 9, creating a pair of debris plumes that will be analyzed for the presence of water ice or water vapor, hydrocarbons and hydrated materials. The spacecraft and Centaur are targeted to impact the moon's south pole near the Cabeus region. The exact target crater will be identified 30 days before impact, after considering information collected by NASA's Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter and observatories on Earth. Nine hours before impact, about 54,000 miles above the surface, LCROSS and the Centaur will separate. LCROSS will spin 180 degrees to turn its science payload toward the moon and fire thrusters to create distance from the Centaur. The spacecraft will observe the flash from the Centaur's impact and fly through the debris plume. Data will be collected and streamed to Earth for analysis. Four minutes later, LCROSS also will impact, creating a second debris plume. The LCROSS mission is providing mission updates on Twitter at: http://www.twitter.com/lcross_nasa For more information about NASA's LCROSS mission, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/lcross -end- From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jun 24 01:19:33 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:19:33 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Outstanding Auctions Ending Today 24th of June * 30% to 50% Off Select Items In My Store-Today Only! SEE HIGHLIGHTS! Message-ID: <012F37D0-23A6-41E1-8EFE-7E01153C793A@gilanet.com> Hello Everyone, There are some great deals to be had today. 30+ Great Auctions started out at 0.99 cents, some low fixed price auctions, and throughout my store 30 to 50 percent off selected items. IT IS WORTH A TRIP OVER THERE! *****SALE ENDS TODAY***** Go to: http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history ALL AUCTIONS HERE: http://shop.ebay.com:80/merchant/meteorite-collector_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ Various Highlights: Rare Mesosiderite- NWA 1878 , LTKW, 22.2 gram A Great Slice! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353923060 (NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 66.14g, A beautiful specimen. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353798532 CANYON DIABLO Individuals, 500g Lot #4 (28) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353904162 (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 5.38g - A MUST SEE DEAL! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353803424 A Perfect MILLBILLILLIE Individual, 6.07g _ A KILLER INDIVIDUAL! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353899910 Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 1026g Lot * Sweet Deal with a BIG ONE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200355653678 Outstanding Silicated Iron, NWA 5549, 4.59g THE BEST http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353816139 Beautiful L3, SAHARA 02500, 230 gram LARGE SLICE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353814864 Rare Fall From North Carolina-CASTALIA, 0.16g LAST SPECIMEN I HAVE! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353810607 Superb WAGON MOUND, New Mexico, 17.56 gram, Nice Breccia http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353808909 (New) Olivine Diogenite-NWA 5480, 10.17 gram, RARE AND BIG SPECIMEN! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353825350 NEW-Chondrule Rich- NWA 5421, LL3.7, 2.30 gram A VERY INTERESTING METEORITE-With More In My Ebay Store http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353829505 NOYAN-BOGDO, L6, Rare Mongolian Fall- 0.20g- VERY RARE FALL! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353807104 Seldom Available SOUSLOVO, Russia, L4, 14.18g - BIG SLICE OF A HARD TO ACQUIRE METEORITE http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353892250 (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 17.76g - A VERY PERFECT INDIVIDUAL! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200355653679 A Beautiful Slice of SEYMCHAN, Pal, 212 gram - THEY DO NOT GET ANY BETTER! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200355653701 (New) WILBUR WASH, Az., L6, Slice, 31.68 gram http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353891190 Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 2.09g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353843055 Nice H3 From Namibia, KORRA KORRABES, 18.74 g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353824214 Beautiful Translucent Slice BRENHAM 7.69g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353801522 Rare & Low TKW, DAVY (B), Texas, H4, 4.00g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353800702 (New) Fall, CHERGACH, Mali, Individual, 0.21g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353799561 New Fall- TAMDAKHT, H5, 27.26 gram slice/frag http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353808175 Nice Slice of OUM DREYGA, Fall, H3-5, 27.41g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353844959 Beautiful GIBEON, IVA Iron Specimen, 3,768g ** THIS IS A GREAT DISPLAY SPECIMEN! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200355653707 SEE THESE OTHERS- NOT METEORITES BUT BEAUTIFUL GOLD NUGGETS & WORTH A LOOK! NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 2.62g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353904921 NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 2.13g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353900292 NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 0.48g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353892698 NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/California-0.83g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353890911 NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 0.48g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353842108 NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 0.28g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353903041 NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 2.03g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353823502 NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 0.46g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353823483 NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 0.29g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353823459 NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 2.24g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353844108 NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/California-1.08g http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353828195 THANKS AND BEST WISHES MICHAEL COTTINGHAM From damoclid at yahoo.com Wed Jun 24 01:43:39 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bright Fireball seen over southern Arizona tonight Message-ID: <327280.73964.qm@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Unfortunately I didn't get to see it, but there are a lot of reports of a bolide tonight. See Carl Hergenrother's blog at: http://transientsky.wordpress.com/ Hunters, get those engines warmed up! -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 From marcin at meteoryt.net Wed Jun 24 09:29:00 2009 From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:29:00 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim '09 photos - double shoot :) References: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com><9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> <200906162208.n5GM8joh025867@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> Message-ID: <007101c9f4cf$bc8bdca0$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> Hi So, Ensisheim 2009 is over. Nice atmosphere (as alvays), many new meteorites (as alvays), same faces (only 12 month older :) and what is most importand good weather ! My photos http://www.polandmet.com/+ensisheim2009.htm and as a bonus, Marcin Stolarz photos http://picasaweb.google.pl/klub.meteorytowy/Ensisheim2009 Have fun and see You in Munich 2009 -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From m_graul at yahoo.de Wed Jun 24 11:44:19 2009 From: m_graul at yahoo.de (Mirko Graul) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:44:19 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [meteorite-list] ........and also my Ensisheim Photos Message-ID: <39541.62948.qm@web26305.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Hello List members, ....little late now also my Ensisheim photos. http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af9beb0bbe82e/0334af9c2f0ca6a08/index.php http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af9beb0bbe82e/0334af9c2f0cc6c24/index.php http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af9beb0bbe82e/0334af9c2f0cca82d/index.php http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af9beb0bbe82e/0334af9c2f0ccd736/index.php http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af9beb0bbe82e/0334af9c2f0cd133f/index.php http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af9beb0bbe82e/0334af9c2f0cd5748/index.php Many greetings to all, Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de Member of The Meteoritical Society (International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 11:55:56 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:55:56 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim '09 photos - double shoot :) In-Reply-To: <007101c9f4cf$bc8bdca0$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> References: <5h4b35p0urk0m750u0p3iefn3ukep71gm4@4ax.com> <9803624968E44135949F3F1EF735DE24@Bandli1> <200906162208.n5GM8joh025867@smtpmul.univ-mulhouse.fr> <007101c9f4cf$bc8bdca0$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> Message-ID: Hi Marcin and List! In the photo you posted labelled - "Big, bad, green diogenite and eucrite with fresh crust and flowlines" Is that a Tatahouine diogenite? If so - WOW! Thanks for sharing the photos! :) Best regards and clear skies, MikeG On 6/24/09, Marcin Cimala wrote: > Hi > So, Ensisheim 2009 is over. > Nice atmosphere (as alvays), many new meteorites (as alvays), same faces > (only 12 month older :) and what is most importand good weather ! > > My photos > http://www.polandmet.com/+ensisheim2009.htm > and as a bonus, Marcin Stolarz photos > http://picasaweb.google.pl/klub.meteorytowy/Ensisheim2009 > > Have fun and see You in Munich 2009 > > -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- > http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl > http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)polandmet.com > http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos > --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From mikewren at gilanet.com Wed Jun 24 21:08:16 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:08:16 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: LAST AD FOR JUNE! Outstanding Auctions Ending NOW * 30% to 50% Off Select Items In My Store-Today Only! SEE HIGHLIGHTS! References: <012F37D0-23A6-41E1-8EFE-7E01153C793A@gilanet.com> Message-ID: > > Hello Everyone, > > There are some great deals to be had today. 30+ Great Auctions > started out at 0.99 cents, some low fixed price auctions, and > throughout my store 30 to 50 percent off selected items. IT IS WORTH > A TRIP OVER THERE! *****SALE ENDS TODAY***** > > Go to: > > http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history > > ALL AUCTIONS HERE: > http://shop.ebay.com:80/merchant/meteorite-collector_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ > > > Various Highlights: > > Rare Mesosiderite- NWA 1878 , LTKW, 22.2 gram A Great Slice! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353923060 > > (NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 66.14g, A beautiful specimen. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353798532 > > CANYON DIABLO Individuals, 500g Lot #4 (28) > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353904162 > > (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 5.38g - A MUST SEE DEAL! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353803424 > > A Perfect MILLBILLILLIE Individual, 6.07g _ A KILLER INDIVIDUAL! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353899910 > > Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 1026g Lot * Sweet Deal with a BIG > ONE! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200355653678 > > Outstanding Silicated Iron, NWA 5549, 4.59g THE BEST > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353816139 > > Beautiful L3, SAHARA 02500, 230 gram LARGE SLICE! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353814864 > > Rare Fall From North Carolina-CASTALIA, 0.16g LAST SPECIMEN I HAVE! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353810607 > > Superb WAGON MOUND, New Mexico, 17.56 gram, Nice Breccia > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353808909 > > (New) Olivine Diogenite-NWA 5480, 10.17 gram, RARE AND BIG SPECIMEN! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353825350 > > NEW-Chondrule Rich- NWA 5421, LL3.7, 2.30 gram A VERY INTERESTING > METEORITE-With More In My Ebay Store > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353829505 > > NOYAN-BOGDO, L6, Rare Mongolian Fall- 0.20g- VERY RARE FALL! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353807104 > > Seldom Available SOUSLOVO, Russia, L4, 14.18g - BIG SLICE OF A HARD > TO ACQUIRE METEORITE > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353892250 > > (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 17.76g - A VERY PERFECT > INDIVIDUAL! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200355653679 > > A Beautiful Slice of SEYMCHAN, Pal, 212 gram - THEY DO NOT GET ANY > BETTER! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200355653701 > > (New) WILBUR WASH, Az., L6, Slice, 31.68 gram > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353891190 > > Very Rare and Beautiful, NWA 801, CR2, 2.09g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353843055 > > Nice H3 From Namibia, KORRA KORRABES, 18.74 g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353824214 > > Beautiful Translucent Slice BRENHAM 7.69g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353801522 > > Rare & Low TKW, DAVY (B), Texas, H4, 4.00g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353800702 > > (New) Fall, CHERGACH, Mali, Individual, 0.21g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353799561 > > New Fall- TAMDAKHT, H5, 27.26 gram slice/frag > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353808175 > > Nice Slice of OUM DREYGA, Fall, H3-5, 27.41g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353844959 > > Beautiful GIBEON, IVA Iron Specimen, 3,768g ** THIS IS A GREAT > DISPLAY SPECIMEN! > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200355653707 > > > > SEE THESE OTHERS- NOT METEORITES BUT BEAUTIFUL GOLD NUGGETS & WORTH > A LOOK! > > NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 2.62g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353904921 > > NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 2.13g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353900292 > > NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 0.48g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353892698 > > NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/California-0.83g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353890911 > > NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 0.48g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353842108 > > NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 0.28g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353903041 > > NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 2.03g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353823502 > > NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 0.46g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353823483 > > NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 0.29g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353823459 > > NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/Australia 2.24g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353844108 > > NATURAL GOLD NUGGET SPECIMEN/California-1.08g > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200353828195 > > > > > > THANKS AND BEST WISHES > > MICHAEL COTTINGHAM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From damoclid at yahoo.com Thu Jun 25 03:42:13 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:42:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bright Fireball seen over southern Arizona tonight Message-ID: <997997.66834.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The MMT Observatory on top of Mt. Hopkins has an all sky camera that operates continually. At night the camera makes 10-second exposures. Additionally they build all of the frames from each day and each night into an avi movie. I downloaded last night's file and grabbed the two frames in which the bolide appears. As you'll see, it was so bright it saturates the frame in the second exposure. The image can be found here: http://fullmoonphotography.net/images/Meteorites/Tucson_Bolide.jpg and the MMT Sky Camera is found at: http://skycam.mmto.arizona.edu/ There is several loops of some security camera footage that captured the terminal burst here: http://tinyurl.com/nnv39d (wait until after the commercial) Finally, "Meteorite Man" and list member Geoff Notkin did an interview with local tv station KOLD 13 this morning. They put his interview together as one of their "60 second Science" pieces. It is available here: http://tinyurl.com/luaoc5 (Again, wait until after the commercial) Cheers -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Thu Jun 25 06:36:51 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:36:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Nice Camel Donga Thin Sections For Sale Message-ID: <655665.38596.qm@web46408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi to everyone, here is my ad for the week and the last one until sometime after July 4th. I have 5 thin sections of the Camel Donga (eucrite)in hand and available for sale. All are uncovered to allow the buyer the option of testing. These are nice samples and priced reasonably at $80 each and includes shipping. Here are pictures of 2 of the thin sections available: http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF2295.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF2297.jpg I also have a few ebay auctions currently going that started out at .99 you can view my ebay auctions here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1 Along with the auction listings, I have a sample of Murray (CM2) and many other very nice quality meteorite samples listed. As always, I can do a little better for prices if the transaction is done off ebay. Thanks for looking! Greg C. www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Thu Jun 25 06:40:20 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:40:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Bright Fireball seen over southern Arizona tonight Message-ID: <168692.38849.qm@web46408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Thanks for the update, It would be nice to have another US fall. Pictures are also nice. I think having pictures and video of falls make it all the more special to have a sample of in collections. Greg C. --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Richard Kowalski wrote: > From: Richard Kowalski > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bright Fireball seen over southern Arizona tonight > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Thursday, June 25, 2009, 3:42 AM > > The MMT Observatory on top of Mt. Hopkins has an all sky > camera that operates continually. At night the camera makes > 10-second exposures. > > Additionally they build all of the frames from each day and > each night into an avi movie. I downloaded last night's file > and grabbed the two frames in which the bolide appears. As > you'll see, it was so bright it saturates the frame in the > second exposure. > > The image can be found here: > > http://fullmoonphotography.net/images/Meteorites/Tucson_Bolide.jpg > > and the MMT Sky Camera is found at: > > http://skycam.mmto.arizona.edu/ > > There is several loops of some security camera footage that > captured the terminal burst here: > > http://tinyurl.com/nnv39d > > (wait until after the commercial) > > Finally, "Meteorite Man" and list member Geoff Notkin did > an interview with local tv station KOLD 13 this morning. > They put his interview together as one of their "60 second > Science" pieces. It is available here: > > http://tinyurl.com/luaoc5 > > (Again, wait until after the commercial) > > Cheers > > > -- > Richard Kowalski > http://fullmoonphotography.net > IMCA #1081 > > > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Thu Jun 25 06:48:38 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for good video of Buzzard Coulee fall Message-ID: <5082.42499.qm@web46404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> 3 messages from me today! Does anyone have good quality video footage of the Buzzard Coulee fall? All I have been able to find is youtube stuff and I would like something of higher quality. I can provide a blank disc and cover postage costs for it, or if upload/download is an option, that would be fine also. I am looking for something good enough to use for a video loop to be played on a TV for a open to the public night at my local astronomy club. I can do all the editing and conversion, I just need to video. Thanks in advance, Greg C. From bristolia at yahoo.com Thu Jun 25 08:23:59 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 05:23:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Paper Argues That Tunguska Blast was Created by Comet Impact Message-ID: <398643.77157.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Space Shuttle Science Shows How 1908 Tunguska Explosion Was Caused By A Comet, Science Daily, June 25, 2009., http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090624152941.htm Kelley, M. C., C. E. Seyler, and M. F. Larsen. (2009), Two-dimensional Turbulence, Space Shuttle Plume Transport in the Thermosphere, and a Possible Relation to the Great Siberian Impact Event. Geophysical Research Letters. (accepted 22 June 2009) DOI: 10.1029/2009GL038362 http://www.agu.org/contents/journals/ViewPapersInPress.do?journalCode=GL Yours, Paul H. From cynapse at charter.net Thu Jun 25 12:37:10 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:37:10 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT nice video on detecting processed meat products In-Reply-To: <39541.62948.qm@web26305.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <39541.62948.qm@web26305.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I've linked to the print version of Shermer's baloney detection kit before, now there's a video version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUB4j0n2UDU From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu Jun 25 12:56:11 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:56:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Volcanoes and Meteoroids Make Materials Harder Than Diamond Message-ID: <200906251656.n5PGuBOo028903@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://discovermagazine.com/2009/jul-aug/24-volcanoes-meteoroids-make-materials-harder-than-diamond Volcanoes and Meteoroids Make Materials Harder Than Diamond by Adam Hadhazy Discover Magazine >From the July-August special issue published online June 24, 2009 The reputation of diamond as the hardest material around is under threat. Researchers in China and the United States recently determined that two naturally occurring substances surpass diamond's resistance to scratching and indentation. They calculated that the mineral lonsdaleite - made of carbon, like diamondi - is 58 percent harder than its famous cousin. And wurtzite boron nitride beats diamond's hardness by about 18 percent after being subjected to pressure, which alters its atomic bonds. Still, in the short term diamond will continue to dominate in practical applications such as saws, drill bits, and industrial abrasives, since the newly studied materials are extremely rare. Lonsdaleite forms only under the extreme pressure and heat accompanying meteorite impacts, while wurtzite boron nitride is a by-product of intense volcanic eruption. But scientists can create both substances in the lab, says physicist John Janik at the Carnegie Institution for Science. Although producing the conditions required to grow the substances in bulk remains a challenge, Janik and others are working on synthesizing wurtzite boron nitride and lonsdaleite to pave the way for commercial use. From meteoritemike at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 12:59:26 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:59:26 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Please explain this terminology. Message-ID: Hi List, This seller describes a Sikhote Alin shrapnel as having : "54 Gram Sikhote-Alin Meteorite-w/Sharp"Roll-Over Edges" I thought a roll-over lip or edge was an orientation feature? How can an exploded piece of shrapnel exhibit these features? Is this one of those cases where you stare at the photo hard enough and you see something else emerge? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250451940458 Best regards, MikeG ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Thu Jun 25 13:03:02 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:03:02 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] New historic US-meteorite found in Millis, MA Message-ID: <003801c9f5b6$d39e7500$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Ehm list, look what I found on Holbrook (!) Square in the town of Millis. Click picture 10, 11, 12 on this page. http://kuerzer.de/millisma Well, some myths better never should be busted.... Martin From meteoritemike at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 13:21:57 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:21:57 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New historic US-meteorite found in Millis, MA In-Reply-To: <003801c9f5b6$d39e7500$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <003801c9f5b6$d39e7500$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Hi Martin and List! Wow! What a discovery! It turns out that America has entire mountain ranges made out of meteorite! I drove through the Smoky Mountains once and saw hundreds of meteorites exactly like that one. It's amazing that these big stones have escaped notice for so long. Seriously though, it's probably best to let them continue to think it's a meteorite. Debunking it might be interpeted as an insult to their fallen that the "meteorite" is memorializing. How do you find this stuff? ;) LOL Best regards, MikeG PS - How was Ensisheim? On 6/25/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > Ehm list, > > look what I found on Holbrook (!) Square in the town of Millis. > Click picture 10, 11, 12 on this page. > > http://kuerzer.de/millisma > > Well, some myths better never should be busted.... > > Martin > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 25 20:16:18 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Please explain this terminology. Message-ID: <667485.80731.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Remember Mike that all pieces started out as shrapnel once disintegration begins. Only those the fully tumble lose all their shrapnel features. The maelstrom of SA's entry was punctuated buy multiple fragmentation events. Which as much going on and as busy as the sky was I imagine there are a wide range of rare but complicated combinations of features. It is easy to see how a a roll-over lip could be found on a largely shrapnel piece especially if any part resembles a shuttlecock/fin stabilized form etc. Elton --- On Thu, 6/25/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > This seller describes a Sikhote Alin shrapnel as having : > "54 Gram > Sikhote-Alin Meteorite-w/Sharp"Roll-Over Edges" > > I thought a roll-over lip or edge was an orientation > feature?? How can > an exploded piece of shrapnel exhibit these features?? From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com Thu Jun 25 20:28:57 2009 From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] freebies and back to work Message-ID: <892353.51648.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hello to all the good people on this list.After 7 and half months,I finally went back to work this week.It will be nice to be getting a pay check soon.So in honor of my new job,I have 5 very nice meteorites to givaway to a new home.LA LUZ,TAHOKA,NWA 5537,ARRIVACA CREEK, and a CAMPO END CUT.Shipping on me.You feel like you belong to something and you are accomplishing something good.Chime in fast. ?Steve R. Arnold From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Thu Jun 25 22:20:12 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:20:12 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 26, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_26_2009.html __________________________ **************Shop Popular Dell Laptops now starting at $349! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222031056x1201446063/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.dou bleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910283%3B38350812%3Ba) From grf2 at verizon.net Thu Jun 25 21:29:49 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:29:49 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: New Issue: Granite-like rocks on Vesta Message-ID: <1E9B89CEE454494589FA65E57DAF011B@ASUS> List/Darren you had asked once about granite. I don't remember if was a compositional or an origin issue. I do know that granite's crystaline structure results from slow cooling under monumental pressures [substantially 5 miles of overburden is a commonly mentioned denominator-often referred to as "the roots of mountains". So what if anything does this tell us about Vesta's possible history? Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: "PSRD" To: Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:03 PM Subject: New Issue: Granite-like rocks on Vesta > Announcement from Planetary Science Research Discoveries [PSRD] wedsite > > New article online: The Complicated Geologic History of Asteroid 4 Vesta > > -- Meteorites from asteroid 4 Vesta show that it contains patches of > granite-like rock. > > --------- > We invite you to: > READ: First summary paragraph for a quick overview > PRINT: pdf version > VIEW: short slide summary > --------- > FULL ARTICLE at: > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/June09/Vesta.granite-like.html > --------- > > FIND ALL THE HEADLINE ARTICLES IN OUR ARCHIVES: > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Archive/Contents.html > --------- > > PSRD is an educational web site supported by NASA's SMD Cosmochemistry > Program and the Hawaii Space Grant Consortium to share the latest research > on meteorites, planets, moons, and other bodies in our Solar System. > > You are subscribed to our free mailing list. > We never send attachments. > For more information please see > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/PSRDsubscribe.html > > --------- > Jeff Taylor and Linda Martel > Hawaii Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, > University of Hawaii > psrd at higp.hawaii.edu > voice (808) 956-3899 > fax (808) 956-6322 > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu From pshugar at clearwire.net Thu Jun 25 23:56:31 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:56:31 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: New Issue: Granite-like rocks on Vesta References: <1E9B89CEE454494589FA65E57DAF011B@ASUS> Message-ID: I thought that the presence of Quartz was a good indication that the rock was not a meteorite !!!!! Now it seems that at least the 4 Vesta meteorites can have some Quartz in them????? Pete IMCA 1733 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Flaherty" To: Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:29 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: New Issue: Granite-like rocks on Vesta > List/Darren you had asked once about granite. I don't remember if was a > compositional or an origin issue. > I do know that granite's crystaline structure results from slow cooling > under monumental pressures [substantially 5 miles of overburden is a > commonly mentioned denominator-often referred to as "the roots of > mountains". > So what if anything does this tell us about Vesta's possible history? > Jerry Flaherty > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "PSRD" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:03 PM > Subject: New Issue: Granite-like rocks on Vesta > > >> Announcement from Planetary Science Research Discoveries [PSRD] wedsite >> >> New article online: The Complicated Geologic History of Asteroid 4 Vesta >> >> -- Meteorites from asteroid 4 Vesta show that it contains patches of >> granite-like rock. >> >> --------- >> We invite you to: >> READ: First summary paragraph for a quick overview >> PRINT: pdf version >> VIEW: short slide summary >> --------- >> FULL ARTICLE at: >> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/June09/Vesta.granite-like.html >> --------- >> >> FIND ALL THE HEADLINE ARTICLES IN OUR ARCHIVES: >> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Archive/Contents.html >> --------- >> >> PSRD is an educational web site supported by NASA's SMD Cosmochemistry >> Program and the Hawaii Space Grant Consortium to share the latest >> research on meteorites, planets, moons, and other bodies in our Solar >> System. >> >> You are subscribed to our free mailing list. >> We never send attachments. >> For more information please see >> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/PSRDsubscribe.html >> >> --------- >> Jeff Taylor and Linda Martel >> Hawaii Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, >> University of Hawaii >> psrd at higp.hawaii.edu >> voice (808) 956-3899 >> fax (808) 956-6322 >> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr Fri Jun 26 00:42:43 2009 From: thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr (Philippe Thomas) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 06:42:43 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: New Issue: Granite-like rocks on Vesta Message-ID: <10297426.10918.1245991363477.JavaMail.www@wwinf1616> Hello, You can download the complete article here: http://www.meteoritica.com/nwa%201769.htm Best wishes, Philippe From barrat at univ-brest.fr Fri Jun 26 01:07:25 2009 From: barrat at univ-brest.fr (barrat at univ-brest.fr) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:07:25 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: New Issue: Granite-like rocks on Vesta In-Reply-To: References: <1E9B89CEE454494589FA65E57DAF011B@ASUS> Message-ID: <1245992845.4a44578def369@webmail-sdt.univ-brest.fr> Hello, HED meteorites contain often a silica phase... Anyway, the crust of Vesta is commonly thought to be made of basalts (eucrites) and mafic or ultramafic cumulates (diogenites and cumulate eucrites). We have studied a few howardites and found impact glass beads. Some of these glasses are very rich in potassium and one bead contains a remain of a silica-rich glass whose composition is granitic-like. These observations indicate that the crust of Vesta contains additionnal lithologies, possibly silica-rich and Potassium-rich similar in composition to granitic rocks. cheers, Jean-Alix Selon Pete Shugar : > I thought that the presence of Quartz was a good indication > that the rock was not a meteorite !!!!! > Now it seems that at least the 4 Vesta meteorites can have > some Quartz in them????? > Pete > IMCA 1733 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Flaherty" > To: > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:29 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: New Issue: Granite-like rocks on Vesta > > > > List/Darren you had asked once about granite. I don't remember if was a > > compositional or an origin issue. > > I do know that granite's crystaline structure results from slow cooling > > under monumental pressures [substantially 5 miles of overburden is a > > commonly mentioned denominator-often referred to as "the roots of > > mountains". > > So what if anything does this tell us about Vesta's possible history? > > Jerry Flaherty > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "PSRD" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:03 PM > > Subject: New Issue: Granite-like rocks on Vesta > > > > > >> Announcement from Planetary Science Research Discoveries [PSRD] wedsite > >> > >> New article online: The Complicated Geologic History of Asteroid 4 Vesta > >> > >> -- Meteorites from asteroid 4 Vesta show that it contains patches of > >> granite-like rock. > >> > >> --------- > >> We invite you to: > >> READ: First summary paragraph for a quick overview > >> PRINT: pdf version > >> VIEW: short slide summary > >> --------- > >> FULL ARTICLE at: > >> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/June09/Vesta.granite-like.html > >> --------- > >> > >> FIND ALL THE HEADLINE ARTICLES IN OUR ARCHIVES: > >> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Archive/Contents.html > >> --------- > >> > >> PSRD is an educational web site supported by NASA's SMD Cosmochemistry > >> Program and the Hawaii Space Grant Consortium to share the latest > >> research on meteorites, planets, moons, and other bodies in our Solar > >> System. > >> > >> You are subscribed to our free mailing list. > >> We never send attachments. > >> For more information please see > >> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/PSRDsubscribe.html > >> > >> --------- > >> Jeff Taylor and Linda Martel > >> Hawaii Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, > >> University of Hawaii > >> psrd at higp.hawaii.edu > >> voice (808) 956-3899 > >> fax (808) 956-6322 > >> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From rmforall at comcast.net Thu Jun 25 09:50:15 2009 From: rmforall at comcast.net (Rich Murray) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:50:15 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Blast a water rich comet: Holocene age clusters of similar craters in New Mexico, east of Las Vegas and southeast of Estancia: Rich Murray 2009.06.25 In-Reply-To: <398643.77157.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <398643.77157.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0748DE2C2E514BB8A74067B5E341DA47@ownerPC> Re: [meteorite-list]Tunguska Blast a water rich comet: clusters of similar craters, very like Carolina Bays, in New Mexico, east of Las Vegas and southeast of Estancia: Rich Murray 2009.06.25 About 8 miles SE of Las Vegas, NM, via Google Maps and Google Earth, note McAllister Lake, Crane Lake, and others with white deposits, by road 201, S of SR 104, part of a Federal bird park. Also, 20 miles E along State Road 104, then NE 1 mile on CR C 53A, to note a NS crater about a mile long, with a about 100 m shallow white rock road quarry at the S end right at the N edge of the road, with no fences or livestock or No Trespassing signs -- it is easy to walk along the west edge on the red sandstone bedrock and find that the layers are progressively cracked and blasted over as refrigerator size chunks, with apparent dark high temperature glazing, beside the shallow central depression. There are rocks and chunks of the red sandstone up to 1 m size lying about in the fields for miles, as well as many more similar features in the area. SE of Albuquerque, just SE of Estancia, mostly N of 60 and the railroad, and crossing it, is a NS cluster of shallow craters with white minerals, Laguna Del Perro, and similar craters within 10-20 miles, long interpreted as late Pleistocene wind erosion features -- intermittent playa lakes. These features seem very similar to the million or so Carolina Bays, from Maryland to Louisiana, for which a recent paper by experts claims evidence to be from a huge ice dominant comet that fragmented high over Southern Canada in 12,900 BP, causing the demise of Clovis culture and of large mammels. I would like help in getting my rock samples from New Mexico features analyzed. Rich Murray 1943 Otowi Road, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505-501-2298 rmforall at comcast.net See Wikipedia.com for "Clovis comet" and "Carolina Bays". http://georgehoward.net/cbays.htm many excellent links http://restorationsystems.com/contact/ George A. Howard, Executive VP/Project Manager Restoration Systems, LLC 1101 Haynes Street, Suite 211 Raleigh, North Carolina 27604 tel 919-755-9490 fax 919-755-9492 3150 N. Elm Street, Suite 206 Greensboro, North Carolina 27408 tel 336-272-7190 fax 336-286-5250 http://restorationsystems.com/who/blog.asp Metro Magazine 2009 January posted by Bryan on 2/18/2009 Journeys with George: Did A Comet Cause The Carolina Bays? By Liza Roberts http://www.georgehoward.net/metro.pdf 5 p many color photos www.agu.org/ American Geophysical Union 2007.05.22-5, Acapulco, MX, Joint Assembly, Supplement 11:35h AN: PP42A-05 TI: Evidence for an Extraterrestrial Impact Origin of the Carolina Bays on the Atlantic Coast of North America AU: * Howard, G A EM: george at restorationsystems.com AF: Restoration Systems, L.L.C., 1101 Haynes Street Suite 107, Raleigh, NC 27604, United States AU: West, A EM: allen7633 at aol.com AF: GeoScience Consulting, P.O.Box 1636, Dewey, AZ 86327, United States AU: Firestone, R B AF: Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, 1 Cyclotron Rd., Berkeley, CA 94710, United States AU: Kennett, J P EM: kennett at geol.ucsb.edu AF: Univ. of California, Santa Barbara, Dept. of Earth Sciences, Santa Barbara, CA 93106, United States AU: Kimbel, D AF: Restoration Systems, L.L.C., 1101 Haynes Street Suite 107, Raleigh, NC 27604, United States AU: Newell, W AU: Kobres, R AF: Univ. of Georgia Libraries, Univ. of Georgia, Athens, GA 30602, United States http://picasaweb.google.com/Swampmerchant/LIDARElevationImagesOfBays#5293889901367112994 image #1 of 34 LIDAR jpg color images of Carolina Bay elevation terrain data 2009.01.21 http://picasaweb.google.com/Swampmerchant/LIDARElevationImagesOfBays#5277819822906998290 image # 2 gives clear elevation color code and length scale: many Carolina Bays are about 0.05 - 1.3 miles long http://picasaweb.google.com/Swampmerchant/CarolinaBaysJanuary182005# 165 fine aerial color photos of Carolina Bays 2005.01.18 http://picasaweb.google.com/Swampmerchant/TheYoungerDryasInDataAndPhotographs# 37 excellent color photos, maps, and charts http://georgehoward.net/Vance%20Haynes%27%20Black%20Mat.htm http://georgehoward.net/Haynes%20(2008)_PNAS_YD.pdf 6 p http://www.pnas.org/content/105/18/65 www.pnas.org/content/105/18/6520/suppl/DC1 Supporting Information 18 p http://www.perigeezero.org/treatise/reference/references/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul" To: Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:23 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] New Paper Argues That Tunguska Blast was Createdby Comet Impact > > Space Shuttle Science Shows How 1908 Tunguska Explosion Was > Caused By A Comet, Science Daily, June 25, 2009., > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090624152941.htm > > Kelley, M. C., C. E. Seyler, and M. F. Larsen. (2009), Two-dimensional > Turbulence, Space Shuttle Plume Transport in the Thermosphere, > and a Possible Relation to the Great Siberian Impact Event. > Geophysical Research Letters. (accepted 22 June 2009) > DOI: 10.1029/2009GL038362 > > http://www.agu.org/contents/journals/ViewPapersInPress.do?journalCode=GL > > Yours, > > Paul H. ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl Fri Jun 26 11:04:47 2009 From: marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl (Marco Langbroek) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:04:47 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone know a 'Jude Noonan'? Message-ID: <4A44E38F.7020903@wanadoo.nl> Hi, Anyone here getting mails from a 'Jude Noonan', e-mail bonk381 at hotmail.com ? He/she sent me pictures and apparent geochemical "descriptions" of a stone, claimed to have been found in Amsterdam. He alternately suggests it is an impact rock or a moon rock. The whole is very fishy. However, in many ways it reminds me of that Swedish dude Lindfors who naged us a while ago. So I wonder whether he is at it again, under another name. - Marco ----- Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) e-mail: dms at marcolangbroek.nl http://www.dmsweb.org http://www.marcolangbroek.nl ----- From jnbran at verizon.net Fri Jun 26 11:14:01 2009 From: jnbran at verizon.net (JASON PHILLIPS) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:14:01 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] 100kg Brenham ending on eBay In-Reply-To: <10297426.10918.1245991363477.JavaMail.www@wwinf1616> References: <10297426.10918.1245991363477.JavaMail.www@wwinf1616> Message-ID: Hello List, I wanted to let everyone know that my 100kg Brenham pallasite is ending on eBay Saturday night. It has no reserve and was started well below wholesale. It is an incredible museum quality specimen found by our own world renown meteorite hunter Steve Arnold, Arkansas. If you have any questions please let me know. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=260430948969 Take care and have a great weekend, Jason Phillips Rocks from Heaven www.rocksfromheaven.com From korotev at wustl.edu Fri Jun 26 11:44:28 2009 From: korotev at wustl.edu (Randy Korotev) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:44:28 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone know a 'Jude Noonan'? In-Reply-To: <4A44E38F.7020903@wanadoo.nl> References: <4A44E38F.7020903@wanadoo.nl> Message-ID: <200906261542.n5QFgVO20690@levee.wustl.edu> Dear Marco: I have been contacted ~30 times over the last year by someone at that e-mail address who identifies himself as James Rice. He sends lots of photos of things he identifies as "imbedded spherules," "lapilli," "fusion crust," and "widmanstatten" in his rocks, which he claims are from Amsterdam. I urged him to get a chemical analysis of his rocks. He did, and he is now combing the lunar literature. He has found irrelevant similarities in concentrations of some trace elements in his samples and some lunar meteorites. He completely ignores my interpretation of his data - The composition is consistent with massive iron oxide (hematite?) with a little quartz, limestone, and maybe clay. I've told him several times that the rocks are not meteorites. He's one of those guys who just keeps looking for evidence in favor of his hypothesis while ignoring the evidence against it. I don't respond to inquiries any more, so I guess that's why he's contacted you! Randy Korotev At 10:04 26-06-09 Friday, you wrote: >Hi, > >Anyone here getting mails from a 'Jude Noonan', e-mail bonk381 at hotmail.com ? > >He/she sent me pictures and apparent geochemical "descriptions" of a >stone, claimed to have been found in Amsterdam. He alternately >suggests it is an impact rock or a moon rock. > >The whole is very fishy. However, in many ways it reminds me of that >Swedish dude Lindfors who naged us a while ago. So I wonder whether >he is at it again, under another name. > >- Marco > >----- >Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek >Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) > >e-mail: dms at marcolangbroek.nl >http://www.dmsweb.org >http://www.marcolangbroek.nl >----- From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 12:06:12 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:06:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone know a 'Jude Noonan'? In-Reply-To: <200906261542.n5QFgVO20690@levee.wustl.edu> References: <4A44E38F.7020903@wanadoo.nl> <200906261542.n5QFgVO20690@levee.wustl.edu> Message-ID: Hi Randy, Marco and List - I'd refer the pest to one of these nutballs, and let them amuse each other : http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/oldschool-av http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/hockpooh Perhaps they can validate each other's junk specimens. ;) Best regards, MikeG On 6/26/09, Randy Korotev wrote: > Dear Marco: > > I have been contacted ~30 times over the last year by someone at that > e-mail address who identifies himself as James Rice. He sends lots > of photos of things he identifies as "imbedded spherules," "lapilli," > "fusion crust," and "widmanstatten" in his rocks, which he claims are > from Amsterdam. I urged him to get a chemical analysis of his > rocks. He did, and he is now combing the lunar literature. He has > found irrelevant similarities in concentrations of some trace > elements in his samples and some lunar meteorites. He completely > ignores my interpretation of his data - The composition is consistent > with massive iron oxide (hematite?) with a little quartz, limestone, > and maybe clay. I've told him several times that the rocks are not > meteorites. He's one of those guys who just keeps looking for > evidence in favor of his hypothesis while ignoring the evidence > against it. I don't respond to inquiries any more, so I guess that's > why he's contacted you! > > Randy Korotev > > > > At 10:04 26-06-09 Friday, you wrote: >>Hi, >> >>Anyone here getting mails from a 'Jude Noonan', e-mail bonk381 at hotmail.com >> ? >> >>He/she sent me pictures and apparent geochemical "descriptions" of a >>stone, claimed to have been found in Amsterdam. He alternately >>suggests it is an impact rock or a moon rock. >> >>The whole is very fishy. However, in many ways it reminds me of that >>Swedish dude Lindfors who naged us a while ago. So I wonder whether >>he is at it again, under another name. >> >>- Marco >> >>----- >>Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek >>Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) >> >>e-mail: dms at marcolangbroek.nl >>http://www.dmsweb.org >>http://www.marcolangbroek.nl >>----- > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri Jun 26 12:25:52 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 26 Jun 2009 16:25:52 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Quartz in meteorites Message-ID: Hello Folks, 01) MONTEIRO J.F. (1989) Preliminary study of the Chaves howardite (Meteoritics 24-4, 1989, pp. A305-A306): "Quartz and tridymite were observed in thin section..." 02) RUBIN A.E. (1997) Mineralogy of meteorite groups (Meteoritics 32-2, 1997, 231-247, p. 241, excerpts): "The basaltic shergottites are fine-grained rocks consisting of major pigeonite, augite and maskelynite, minor titanian magnetite, ilmenite, pyrrhotite and whitlockite, and accessory fayalite, q u a r t z , baddeleyite and chlorapatite within the mesostasis (McSween, 1994)." 03) AFANASIEV S.V. et al. (2000) Dhofar 007 and Northwest Africa 011: Two new eucrites of different types (MAPS 35-5, 2000, Suppl., A019): "Northwest Africa 011 is an unbrecciated achondrite unlike ... Accessories are metal, troilite, spinel, ilmenite, and q u a r t z." 04) SEMENENKO V.P. et al. (1998) The Galkiv meteorite: A new H4 chondrite from Ukraine (MAPS 33, 1998, A193-A196): "The meteorite contains olivine, low-Ca pyroxene, Ni-Fe, troilite, and minor amounts of high-Ca pyroxene, chromite, feldspathic plagioclase, phosphates, metallic Cu and rare grains of spinel and q u a r t z ." 05) ZHANG Y. et al. (1996) Pyroxene structures, cathodoluminescence and the thermal history of the enstatite chondrites (Meteoritics 31-1, 1996, 87-96): "Mason (1968) suggested a maximum equilibration temperature of 870?C based on the presence of q u a r t z ." Best wishes, Bernd From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 26 12:53:17 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:53:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Rover Yielding New Clues While Lodged in Martian Soil Message-ID: <200906261653.n5QGrHwl016176@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-102 Mars Rover Yielding New Clues While Lodged in Martian Soil Jet Propulion Laboratory June 25, 2009 PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA's Mars rover Spirit, lodged in Martian soil that is causing traction trouble, is taking advantage of the situation by learning more about the Red Planet's environmental history. In April, Spirit entered an area composed of three or more layers of soil with differing pastel hues hiding beneath a darker sand blanket. Scientists dubbed the site "Troy." Spirit's rotating wheels dug themselves more than hub deep at the site. The rover team has spent weeks studying Spirit's situation and preparing a simulation of this Martian driving dilemma to test escape maneuvers using an engineering test rover at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. A rock seen beneath Spirit in images from the camera on the end of the rover's arm may be touching Spirit's belly. Scientists believe it appears to be a loose rock not bearing the rover's weight. While Spirit awaits extraction instructions, the rover is keeping busy examining Troy, which is next to a low plateau called Home Plate, approximately 3.2 kilometers (2 miles) southeast of where Spirit landed in January 2004. "By serendipity, Troy is one of the most interesting places Spirit has been," said Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St. Louis. Arvidson is deputy principal investigator for the science payloads on Spirit and its twin rover, Opportunity. "We are able here to study each layer, each different color of the interesting soils exposed by the wheels." One of the rover's wheels tore into the site, exposing colored sandy materials and a miniature cliff of cemented sands. Some disturbed material cascaded down, evidence of the looseness that will be a challenge for getting Spirit out. But at the edge of the disturbed patch, the soil is cohesive enough to hold its shape as a steep cross-section. Spirit has been using tools on its robotic arm to examine tan, yellow, white and dark-red sandy soil at Troy. Stretched-color images from the panoramic camera show the tints best. "The layers have basaltic sand, sulfate-rich sand and areas with the addition of silica-rich materials, possibly sorted by wind and cemented by the action of thin films of water. We're still at a stage of multiple working hypotheses," said Arvidson. "This may be evidence of much more recent processes than the formation of Home Plate...or is Home Plate being slowly stripped back by wind, and we happened to stir up a deposit from billions of years ago before the wind got to it?" Team members from NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston feel initial readings suggest that iron is mostly present in an oxidized form as ferric sulfate and that some of the differences in tints at Troy observed by the panoramic camera may come from differences in the hydration states of iron sulfates. While extraction plans for the rover are developed and tested during the coming weeks, the team plans to have Spirit further analyze the soil from different depths. This research benefits from having time and power. In April and May, winds blew away most of the dust that had accumulated on Spirit's solar panels. "The exceptional amount of power available from cleaning of Spirit's solar arrays by the wind enables full use of all of the rover's science instruments," said Richard Moddis of the Johnson team. "If your rover is going to get bogged down, it's nice to have it be at a location so scientifically interesting." The rover team has developed a soil mix for testing purposes that has physical properties similar to those of the soil under Spirit at Troy. This soil recipe combines diatomaceous earth, powdered clay and play sand. A crew is shaping a few tons of that mix this week into contours matching Troy's. The test rover will be commanded through various combinations of maneuvers during the next few weeks to validate the safest way to proceed on Mars. Spirit's right-front wheel has been immobile for more than three years, magnifying the challenge. While acknowledging a possibility that Spirit might not be able to leave Troy, the rover team remains optimistic. Diagnostic tests on Spirit in early June provided encouragement that the left-middle wheel remains useable despite an earlier stall. "With the improved power situation, we have the time to explore all the possibilities to get Spirit out," said JPL's John Callas, project manager for Spirit and Opportunity. "We are optimistic. The last time Spirit spun its wheels, it was still making progress. The ground testing will help us avoid doing things that could make Spirit's situation worse." Images and further information about Spirit and Opportunity are available at: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov and http://www.nasa.gov/rovers . Carolina Martinez 818-354-9382 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. carolina.martinez at jpl.nasa.gov Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726 NASA Headquarters, Washington dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov 2009-102 From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jun 26 12:54:15 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 9:54:15 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Quartz in meteorites In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090626125415.GDK1I.70066.imail@fed1rmwml38> Bernd, List, I have a follow-up question; I realize the amount of quartz found in all of these different types of meteorites is small but, why does that mean it cannot be found in larger amounts? With all due respect, Who came up with this rule? As one example in a million, even nickel in Iron meteorites varies from a few percent to as high as sixty percent and all Earth rocks with quartz have a varying degree as well from a ppm to pure; 100%. Thanks. Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 ---- bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > Hello Folks, > > 01) MONTEIRO J.F. (1989) Preliminary study of the Chaves > howardite (Meteoritics 24-4, 1989, pp. A305-A306): > > "Quartz and tridymite were observed in thin section..." > > 02) RUBIN A.E. (1997) Mineralogy of meteorite groups > (Meteoritics 32-2, 1997, 231-247, p. 241, excerpts): > > "The basaltic shergottites are fine-grained rocks consisting of major pigeonite, > augite and maskelynite, minor titanian magnetite, ilmenite, pyrrhotite and > whitlockite, and accessory fayalite, q u a r t z , baddeleyite and chlorapatite > within the mesostasis (McSween, 1994)." > > 03) AFANASIEV S.V. et al. (2000) Dhofar 007 and Northwest Africa 011: > Two new eucrites of different types (MAPS 35-5, 2000, Suppl., A019): > > "Northwest Africa 011 is an unbrecciated achondrite unlike ... Accessories > are metal, troilite, spinel, ilmenite, and q u a r t z." > > 04) SEMENENKO V.P. et al. (1998) The Galkiv meteorite: A new H4 > chondrite from Ukraine (MAPS 33, 1998, A193-A196): > > "The meteorite contains olivine, low-Ca pyroxene, Ni-Fe, troilite, and minor amounts > of high-Ca pyroxene, chromite, feldspathic plagioclase, phosphates, metallic Cu and > rare grains of spinel and q u a r t z ." > > 05) ZHANG Y. et al. (1996) Pyroxene structures, cathodoluminescence and > the thermal history of the enstatite chondrites (Meteoritics 31-1, 1996, 87-96): > > "Mason (1968) suggested a maximum equilibration temperature of 870?C based > on the presence of q u a r t z ." > > Best wishes, > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 26 12:55:23 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:55:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Gives Media, Public Look Inside Apollo Moon Rock Vault Message-ID: <200906261655.n5QGtNve016892@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> June 25, 2009 Katherine Trinidad Headquarters, Washington 202-358-1100 katherine.trinidad at nasa.gov Josh Byerly Johnson Space Center, Houston 281-483-5111 josh.byerly at nasa.gov MEDIA ADVISORY: M09-116 NASA GIVES MEDIA, PUBLIC LOOK INSIDE APOLLO MOON ROCK VAULT HOUSTON -- NASA will offer reporters an unprecedented chance to conduct interviews with scientists inside the lab that stores moon rocks Apollo astronauts collected during their six missions. The July 2 interview opportunities from the Apollo Lunar Sample Processing Lab and Storage Vaults at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston will take place nearly 40 years after humans first walked on the moon. Using the NASA Television's Live Interview Media Outlet satellite channel, news organizations will have a chance to talk with scientists who study the lunar samples. The interviews will originate from inside the lunar sample vault, amid the trays of moon rocks and soil samples. Among the samples are those Apollo 11 astronauts Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin brought back to Earth in July 1969. Live interview opportunities will be available from 6 a.m. to 8 a.m. and 2 p.m. to 4 p.m. CDT with lunar sample scientists Gary Lofgren and Andrea Mosie. Lofgren is the lunar curator at Johnson and has been with the lab since the Apollo era. Mosie has been a scientist in the current lab since it opened in 1979. To participate in the interviews, journalists should contact Victor Scott at 281-483-4942 or victor.j.scott at nasa.gov no later than noon, July 1. The public also will have an opportunity to take a virtual tour of the lunar sample lab and ask the scientists questions via Ustream and Twitter from 12 p.m. to 1 p.m. The public can submit questions to Johnson's Twitter account, @NASA_Johnson, beginning today and via Ustream live during the event. The tour and the question-and-answer session also will be broadcast live on NASA TV. To view the live broadcast on Ustream and submit questions, visit: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/nasa-live Between 1969 and 1972, six Apollo spaceflight missions brought back 842 pounds and 22,000 separate samples of lunar rocks, core samples, pebbles, sand and dust from the lunar surface. The majority of the samples are stored at the Apollo Lunar Sample Processing Lab and Storage Vaults at Johnson, with a small subset held at the White Sands Space Harbor in New Mexico. The samples continue to be studied by scientists around the world. The work has provided invaluable knowledge as NASA prepares to return to the moon. The NASA Live Interview Media Outlet satellite channel will be used for the event. The channel is a digital satellite C-band downlink by uplink provider Americom. It is on satellite AMC 6, transponder 5C, located at 72 degrees west, downlink frequency 3785.5 Mhz based on a standard C-band 5150 Mhz L.O., vertical polarity, FEC is 3/4, data rate is 6.00 Mhz, symbol rate is 4.3404 Mbaud, transmission DVB, minimum Eb/N0 is 6.0 dB. For NASA TV streaming video, downlink and schedule information, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/ntv For more information about the Apollo lunar samples and lab, visit: http://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/index.cfm NASA is planning a number of activities and events in 2009 as the 40th anniversary of the first moon landing on July 20 approaches. The events will celebrate the Apollo Program, its accomplishments, and the benefits to our lives today. For more information, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/apollo40th -end- From cdtucson at cox.net Fri Jun 26 12:57:57 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 9:57:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Quartz in meteorites Message-ID: <20090626125757.2YVDL.70130.imail@fed1rmwml38> Bernd, List, I have a follow-up question; I realize the amount of quartz found in all of these different types of meteorites is small but, why does that mean it cannot be found in larger amounts? With all due respect, Who came up with this rule? As one example in a million, even nickel in Iron meteorites varies from a few percent to as high as sixty percent and all Earth rocks with quartz have a varying degree as well from a ppm to pure; 100%. Thanks. Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 ---- bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > Hello Folks, > > 01) MONTEIRO J.F. (1989) Preliminary study of the Chaves > howardite (Meteoritics 24-4, 1989, pp. A305-A306): > > "Quartz and tridymite were observed in thin section..." > > 02) RUBIN A.E. (1997) Mineralogy of meteorite groups > (Meteoritics 32-2, 1997, 231-247, p. 241, excerpts): > > "The basaltic shergottites are fine-grained rocks consisting of major pigeonite, > augite and maskelynite, minor titanian magnetite, ilmenite, pyrrhotite and > whitlockite, and accessory fayalite, q u a r t z , baddeleyite and chlorapatite > within the mesostasis (McSween, 1994)." > > 03) AFANASIEV S.V. et al. (2000) Dhofar 007 and Northwest Africa 011: > Two new eucrites of different types (MAPS 35-5, 2000, Suppl., A019): > > "Northwest Africa 011 is an unbrecciated achondrite unlike ... Accessories > are metal, troilite, spinel, ilmenite, and q u a r t z." > > 04) SEMENENKO V.P. et al. (1998) The Galkiv meteorite: A new H4 > chondrite from Ukraine (MAPS 33, 1998, A193-A196): > > "The meteorite contains olivine, low-Ca pyroxene, Ni-Fe, troilite, and minor amounts > of high-Ca pyroxene, chromite, feldspathic plagioclase, phosphates, metallic Cu and > rare grains of spinel and q u a r t z ." > > 05) ZHANG Y. et al. (1996) Pyroxene structures, cathodoluminescence and > the thermal history of the enstatite chondrites (Meteoritics 31-1, 1996, 87-96): > > "Mason (1968) suggested a maximum equilibration temperature of 870?C based > on the presence of q u a r t z ." > > Best wishes, > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 26 13:03:23 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:03:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] The Complicated Geologic History of Asteroid 4 Vesta Message-ID: <200906261703.n5QH3Nwg019052@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/June09/Vesta.granite-like.html *The Complicated Geologic History of Asteroid 4 Vesta* Planetary Science Research Discoveries June 25, 2008 --- Meteorites from asteroid 4 Vesta show that it contains patches of granite-like rock. Written by G. Jeffrey Taylor Hawaii Institute of Geophysics and Planetology Planetary scientists are pretty sure that almost all of the HED meteorites come from the fourth-largest asteroid, 4 Vesta. HED stands for the three types of rocks that make up the group. As cosmochemists have studied the meteorites over the years, their view of the geologic history of the asteroid has become progressively more complicated. Jean-Alix Barrat and Marcel Bohn (CNRS and University of Brest, France), Philippe Gillet (CNRS and Ecole Normale Sup??rieure de Lyon, France), and Akira Yamaguchi (National Institute of Polar Research, Tokyo, Japan) have found that Vesta is even more complicated--and interesting--than we thought. Barrat and his colleagues analyzed impact-produced glass spherules and fragments in several howardites (mixtures of the two other main types, eucrites and diogenites). Not surprisingly, most of the glasses have compositions similar to eucrites, which are basalts, or mixtures of them with diogenites, but a few are surprisingly rich in silicon and potassium (expressed as the percentages of SiO_2 and K_2 O, respectively). In fact, the concentrations of these oxides are similar to granites, compositionally far from basalt. Their manufacture requires extensive crystallization of magma. Combined with a more subtle variation among the basalts, the emerging picture is one that includes formation of a basaltic crust, partial melting of parts of the crust, mixing of those melts with some (not all) magmas as they migrated through the crust, and extensive crystallization of magma bodies to produce residual magma resembling granites. On top of that, Vestan rocks were thermally metamorphosed and battered and mixed by impacts. A pretty complicated little planetary body! *Reference:* * Barrat, J. A., Bohn, M., Gillet, Ph., and Yamaguchi, A. (2009) Evidence for K-rich Terranes on Vesta from Impact Spherules, /Meteoritics and Planetary Science,/ v. 44, p. 359-374. *PSRDpresents:* The Complicated Geologic History of Asteroid 4 Vesta--Short Slide Summary (with accompanying notes). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Howardites, Eucrites, Diogenites: Chunks of Vesta* One group of meteorites from Vesta is called eucrites, the E in HED. They are mostly basalts. In the microscope, they resemble terrestrial lava flows, and for a long time cosmochemists figured that eucrites formed the same way terrestrial basalts form, by partial melting of the interior. However, assorted geochemical arguments, especially the concentrations of siderophile elements (they concentrate in metallic iron), suggest that Vesta was totally melted (or nearly so) when it formed. As it crystallized, the last 10-20% of magma would have a composition like the eucrites. Of course, somehow that magma has to be squirted onto the surface to make lava flows. The kinks have not been ironed out of the idea. Nevertheless, it is clear that eucrites formed as lava flows. Their ages indicate that it happened 4.5 billion years ago. The other main igneous rock type from Vesta is diogenite. These are composed almost entirely of orthopyroxene, so must represent accumulations of this mineral from a slowly-cooling magma. This might have been the magma ocean, but that is not certain. The howardites are impact-produced mixtures of the other two rock types, completing the Howardite, Eucrite, Diogenite suite, the HED meteorites. I keep saying that the HEDs come from asteroid 4 Vesta. How do we know that? The answer comes from astronomical measurements of the spectral characteristic of light reflected from the asteroid's surface, which looks very much like measurements of HED meteorites in the lab. See *PSRD* article: Getting to Know Vesta for more detail. reflectance spectrum of Vesta from Earth-based telescope This is a spectral plot of Vesta obtained at the NASA Infrared Telescope Facility on Mauna Kea, Hawai'i by scientists in France using remote control networks from l'Observatoire de Paris-Meudon. In particular, it is the presence of the 0.9 and 1.9 micrometer absorption bands for pyroxene in the spectra of Vesta that match spectra of the HED meteorites. Over the years, cosmochemists have studied the HED meteorites in detail, making subdivisions (as cosmochemists are want to do!). One of the most interesting subdivisions is the identification of two distinct chemical trends among the eucrites, illustrated in the diagram below. One is called the main group trend, which is also called the Nuevo Laredo trend after a prominent member of it. It is characterized by lower concentrations of rare earth elements (such as lanthanum) than the Stannen trend (named after the eucrite Stannern). Plot showing two distinct trends, indicating two different suites of igneous rocks from Vesta. A plot of lanthanum (La) versus the ratio the oxides of iron to magnesium (FeO/MgO). Note the two distinct trends among the eucrites, indicating two different suites of igneous rocks from Vesta. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Glassy Spherules* *T*he howardites are impact breccias. They are mixtures of almost all the rocky components making up the crust of Vesta. Some of them contain glassy spherules and glass fragments formed by impact. Jean-Alix Barrat and his colleagues searched for them in eight howardites and found numerous objects. Some are partly crystallized, but they found 61 fragments and spherules that were almost entirely glass and they report the chemical compositions of them in their paper. Glass spherule in the howardite NWA 1769. Glass spherule in the howardite NWA 1769. It is surrounded by mineral fragments. The image is of the intensity of backscattered electrons, taken with an electron microprobe. Most of the glassy objects have compositions like those of eucrites or mixtures of them with diogenites, as shown in the diagram below. (Cosmochemists and geochemists are fond of this diagram, which plots weight percentages of total alkalis and silica (Na_2 O+K_2 O vs SiO_2 ). It is called a TAS diagram and is used widely to classify igneous rocks.) However, note that quite a few glass samples have elevated alkalis compared to typical eucrite rocks (solid symbols in the diagram). More importantly, note that two of them plot in the dacite field, substantially enriched in alkalis and silica compared to the basalts. In fact, they correspond roughly to terrestrial granites, but formed in a different way. TAS diagram to classify eucrites and impact glasses from howardites. This TAS diagram shows total alkalis (oxides of potassium and sodium) versus silicon dioxide concentration (all in weight percent) for eucrites and impact glasses from howardites. The fields show where different types of terrestrial rocks plot. Note that many of the glass samples (open circle symbols) plot close to and on top of the eucrite basalt samples (solid symbols), but some have elevated alkalis, and two are drastically different with high SiO_2 and alkalis. These two (indicated by blue arrows) plot in the dacite field, which along with rhyolites correspond to the compositions of granite and similar rocks on Earth. Data are from the literature for eucrites and from Barrat /et al./ (2009) for the glass samples. Barrat and his colleagues show that the glass compositions represent impact melts, not unusual condensates from impact-produced vapor, and that they have not lost any elements while they were hot droplets of magma. They also show through calculations called chemical mixing models that some of the glasses enriched in potassium but not silica could be mixtures of typical eucrites and diogenites with granite, but many are not. It appears that there is yet another chemical component lurking in the crust of Vesta. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Making Granite the Hard Way* *E*arth is home to almost all the granite in the solar system. Almost all of it forms by remelting of pre-existing crust, either sediments or by crystallization of somewhat silica-enriched magmas formed when an oceanic plate subducts beneath a continental plate or another oceanic plate. It makes vast bodies of rock making up major mountain ranges such as the Sierra Nevada in the western United States. The Vestan granites are not at all like terrestrial granites. They are not abundant on Vesta and do not contain water-bearing minerals such as mica that characterize terrestrial granite. The Vestan ones are more like lunar granites. Like the Vestan samples, the lunar ones are also rare and water-free. They are also small--the largest sample weighs only 1.8 grams! It is quite possible, however, that regions of the Moon tens of kilometers across are made of granite-like rock. We need better remote sensing data to know for sure. Photomicrograph of felsite 14321,1047. This photomicrograph shows graphic intergrowth of quartz (Qtz) and potassium feldspar (Kspar) in a lunar granite, sample 14321,1047. A lot of us have done a lot of work on lunar granites (also called "felsites" to distinguish them from mountains of terrestrial granites). Ideas for their origin fall into two main categories: Extensive crystallization of basaltic magma and partial melting of the lunar crust by intrusions of basalt causing partial melting. When magmas crystallize, minerals are often removed by sinking or other processes and so do not react with the magma any further. Removal of crystals changes the composition of the magmatic system, a process called fractional crystallization. Continued fractional crystallization leads to progressively smaller amounts of magma that is progressively different in composition from the original magma. Depending on the chemical composition of the parent magma, the evolved magma might resemble the granites. In other cases, the magma enters an unusual compositional field that promotes separation of two magmas, one iron rich, the other rich in silica and alkalis. In either case, extensive crystallization can lead to formation of granite-like magma. Barrat and his colleagues conclude that this is a feasible way to make the patches of granite in the crust of Vesta. Looking at it in the opposite way, if a rock is heated enough it will partially melt. A pre-existing basalt could partially melt to form a granite-like magma, although the composition of the rock has to be in the right range. Heat for melting can come from the injection of large amounts of hot magma, which heats a region of the crust, forming patches of granites. There is clear evidence that partial melting of pre-existing rocks occurred on Vesta. For example, Akira Yamaguchi and colleagues (including me) showed in 2001 that eucrite EET 90020 had clear evidence that it partially melted. So, the conditions for the partial melting mechanism certainly existed, but Barrat and colleagues do not think this is feasible for producing the granites. They point out that when an eucrite is partially melted, the initial magma is not like the granitic impact glasses. It is not rich enough in potassium. So, we are not sure about how Vestan granite-like rocks formed, how abundant they are, or the size of the outcrops. To answer those questions cosmochemists need to make additional detailed studies of howardites and eucrites. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Vesta's Rich Geological History* *I*n their paper about the Stannern trend eucrites, Barrat and coworkers present an interesting picture of the processes that affected Vesta's crust. Tying together observations and interpretations by other investigators and themselves, they propose that the crust formed by eruption of basalt, the leftovers of magma ocean crystallization. The specifics of this process are not clear cut yet, but Akira Yamaguchi and colleagues showed earlier that it is likely that the crust was formed rapidly and that the first basalts to erupt were buried by subsequent flows. This led to creation of an insulating layer above the early flows, causing the early flows to increase in temperature because of heat flowing from the hot interior. This resulted in most eucrites being metamorphosed. Intrusions of basalt magma into the crust caused additional metamorphism, possibly even partial melting, of the rocks surrounding the pools of magma. In addition, the pools fractionally crystallized, forming what cosmochemists call cumulate eucrites and perhaps in some extreme cases forming granites. Diagram showing the model by Barrat and colleagues of the construction of the crust of Vesta. This diagram by Jean-Alix Barrat and colleagues shows a reasonable snapshot of processes operating during the construction of the crust of Vesta. Thermal metamorphism, driven by heat flowing from the hot interior, is more severe as depth increases. Intrusions of basalt magma cause addition metamorphism of the rock surrounding them, and allow for fractional crystallization. Some areas, especially near the base of the crust, become hot enough to partially melt, producing magma richer in trace elements than typical eucrites. When normal eucrites interact with these partially melted zones, they produce hybrid magmas (the Stannern trend eucrites). In most cases, the basalt magma passes through the crust without interacting with it, leading to eruption of normal, or Nuevo Laredo trend eucrites. In their 2007 paper, Barrat and coworkers suggest that the Stannern trend eucrites (the ones richer in rare earth elements and geochemically similar elements) form when normal eucrite magmas pass through regions that were heated enough to partially melt. Such partial melts would contain higher levels of elements that are not incorporated readily into major minerals, so have higher concentrations in melted regions. Mixing of normal eucrite basalt with relatively modest amounts of partial melt could have produced the Stannern trend eucrites. Barrat and colleagues back up this model with quantitative trace element modeling. If a magma did not pass through a partially melting zone, a normal eucrite erupted. This is a surprisingly complicated history for tiny planet about 530 km across. It melted, formed a basaltic crust, and made an array of rocks by accumulation in magma bodies. The crust remelted, and some of those magmas mixed with normal eucrite basaltic magma to make the Stannern trend lavas. The crust was metamorphosed by burial, and heated and mixed by impacts while it was still hot. It will be fascinating to see what the Dawn spacecraft finds when it spends half a year in orbit around Vesta. Maybe its reflectance spectrometer will see little areas of HED granite. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ADDITIONAL RESOURCES *LINKS OPEN IN A NEW WINDOW.* * *PSRDpresents:* The Complicated Geologic History of Asteroid 4 Vesta--Short Slide Summary (with accompanying notes). * Barrat, J. A., Bohn, M., Gillet, Ph., and Yamaguchi, A. (2009) Evidence for K-rich Terranes on Vesta from Impact Spherules. /Meteoritics and Planetary Science,/ v. 44, p. 359-374. * Barrat, M. A., Yamaguchi, A., Greenwood, R. C., Bohn, M., Cotton, J., Benoit, M., and Franchi, I. A. (2007) The Stannern Trend Eucrites: Contamination of Main Group Eucritic Magmas by Crustal Partial Melts. /Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta,/ v. 71, p. 4108-4124. * Dawn Mission homepage * Martel, L. M. V. (2007) Getting to Know Vesta. /Planetary Science Research Discoveries./ http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Nov07/HEDs-Vesta.html <../Nov07/HEDs-Vesta.html> * Yamaguchi, A., Taylor, G. J., Keil, K., Floss, C., Crozaz, G., Nyquist, L. E., Bogard, D. D., Garrison, D. H., Reese, Y. D., Wiesmann, H., and Shih, C-Y. (2001) Post-crystallization Reheating and Partial Melting of Eucrite EET90020 by Impact into the Hot Crust of Asteroid 4 Vesta 4.5 Ga ago. /Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta,/ v. 65, p. 3577-3599. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 26 13:05:09 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: June 22-26, 2009 Message-ID: <200906261705.n5QH590u019936@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES June 22-26, 2009 o Unusual Textures (Released 22 June 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090622a o Coprates Chasma (Released 23 June 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090623a o Sirenum Fossae (Released 24 June 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090624a o Sirenum Fossae (Released 25 June 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090625a o Olympus Mons (Released 26 June 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090626a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Fri Jun 26 13:08:26 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:08:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rovers Update: June 18-24, 2009 Message-ID: <200906261708.n5QH8Qdm021344@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html SPIRIT UPDATE: Studying Troy* /- sols 1941-1947, June 18-24, 2009: Spirit is continuing her ambitious remote sensing and in-situ (contact) science observations at the location called "Troy" on the west side of Home Plate. Using the rover robotic arm (instrument deployment device, IDD), the rover has been exploring a set of surface targets that hold clues to the past geologic history at this location. On Sol 1941 (June 18, 2009), a Microscopic Imager (MI) stack of images was collected on target Penina3, then the Alpha Particle X-ray Spectrometer (APXS) was placed for an overnight integration. On the next sol, the Moessbauer Spectrometer (MB) was placed on a different target for a multi-sol integration. The next few sols included some late-day activities where the rover imaged the Earth and Venus in the night sky. On Sols 1945 and 1946 (June 22 and 23, 2009), Spirit investigated another set of surface targets, again with MI stacks and APXS overnight integrations. On Sol 1946 (June 23, 2009), another solar array dust cleaning event occurred, increasing the available energy each sol even more. At JPL, a special test form has been installed for ground testing with the surface system testbed (SSTB) rover to guide the eventual extraction activities on Mars for Spirit. The materials for the soil simulant to be used in the test form have been delivered and are in the process of being formulated and mixed. As of Sol 1947 (June 24, 2009), solar array energy production increased to 945 watt-hours with atmospheric opacity (tau) of 0.480 and an improved dust factor of 0.834. Total odometry remains at 7,729.93 meters (4.80 miles). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Moving to Outcrop* /- sols 1920-1926, June 18-24, 2009: Opportunity has been moving toward a candidate patch of rock outcrop in preparation for a rest of the mobility system over the coming holiday. There continues to be concern with the elevated motor currents seen in the right front wheel. On Sol 1920 (June 18, 2009), Opportunity drove backwards about 63 meters (207 feet) south. The right front wheel currents were elevated but were not divergently increasing. After a few sols, Opportunity drove another 7 meters (23 feet) to a nearby outcrop. Robotic arm activities on surface targets with the microscopic image (MI) and the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer (APXS) were performed on Sols 1924 and 1925 (June 22 and 23, 2009). Further drives are planned to reach a large region of rock outcrop. Also, the week saw further implementation of the miniature thermal emission spectrometer (Mini-TES) mirror dust mitigation. The Mini-TES shroud is left open overnight to see if the environment will clean the elevation mirror. As of Sol 1924 (June 22, 2009), the solar array energy production was 450 watt-hours with an atmospheric opacity (tau) of 0.480 and a dust factor of 0.530, indicating that 53 percent of sunlight hitting the solar array penetrates the layer of accumulated dust on the array. As of Sol 1926 (June 24, 2009), Opportunity's total odometry remains at 16,639.71 meters (10.3 miles) From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Fri Jun 26 13:32:56 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:32:56 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Quartz in meteorites In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000401c9f684$254b7d30$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hello Bernd, and do you remember the NWA 4905 in your collection, which in that context could point in that direction? Although we haven't new results yet. Wait, Tom Phillips made also some of his fantastic takes with NWA 4905.. Here: http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2009/april/index.htm Click in the side menu on "Micro Visions". Funny enough Tom writes there about his macroscopic impressions: "I think I would dismiss it as Granite." Best! Martin (Ouch, the impertinent seller in me tips my shoulder and murmurs: Somewhere in their vast stock, Chladni's Heirs should have a slice of that fabulous stuff left!) -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Juni 2009 18:26 An: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Quartz in meteorites Hello Folks, 01) MONTEIRO J.F. (1989) Preliminary study of the Chaves howardite (Meteoritics 24-4, 1989, pp. A305-A306): "Quartz and tridymite were observed in thin section..." 02) RUBIN A.E. (1997) Mineralogy of meteorite groups (Meteoritics 32-2, 1997, 231-247, p. 241, excerpts): "The basaltic shergottites are fine-grained rocks consisting of major pigeonite, augite and maskelynite, minor titanian magnetite, ilmenite, pyrrhotite and whitlockite, and accessory fayalite, q u a r t z , baddeleyite and chlorapatite within the mesostasis (McSween, 1994)." 03) AFANASIEV S.V. et al. (2000) Dhofar 007 and Northwest Africa 011: Two new eucrites of different types (MAPS 35-5, 2000, Suppl., A019): "Northwest Africa 011 is an unbrecciated achondrite unlike ... Accessories are metal, troilite, spinel, ilmenite, and q u a r t z." 04) SEMENENKO V.P. et al. (1998) The Galkiv meteorite: A new H4 chondrite from Ukraine (MAPS 33, 1998, A193-A196): "The meteorite contains olivine, low-Ca pyroxene, Ni-Fe, troilite, and minor amounts of high-Ca pyroxene, chromite, feldspathic plagioclase, phosphates, metallic Cu and rare grains of spinel and q u a r t z ." 05) ZHANG Y. et al. (1996) Pyroxene structures, cathodoluminescence and the thermal history of the enstatite chondrites (Meteoritics 31-1, 1996, 87-96): "Mason (1968) suggested a maximum equilibration temperature of 870?C based on the presence of q u a r t z ." Best wishes, Bernd ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 23:29:31 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:29:31 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fired up the saw for the first time today! Message-ID: Hi Listees! I finally fired up my saw today and did my first cuts! First, I had no idea that cutting stony meteorites was so EASY. Albeit, I was cutting small ones. I did my very first cut on a non-descript UNWA stone. It cut right in half like butter. So, then I was feeling increasingly brave, so I cut some NWA 869 and Oum Dreyga. It was surprising how easy it was to cut nice, thin, and even slices. The NWA 869 and Oum Dreyga turned out very nice - the latter has black crust around the edges. All of the slices are small - the Oum Dreyga slices were made from a 10 gram crusted chunk and the NWA 869 was cut from a 42 gram stone. I also cut several oddball meteorites I have been sitting on for a while - waiting for a saw. Most were run of the mill H-type chondrites with metal flecks a few sparse chondrules. One was an Al-Hagg type EL chondrite. But one was interesting. It has a grey matrix with dark grey and white clasts. It also has a few ill-defined chondrules. The stone shows a very slight attraction to a neo-magnet and I don't think it's a wrong. (although I could be wrong) - it bears a visual resemblance to a eucrite. I'll snap some photos and post them soon. I used distilled water as a coolant. After cutting I dried the slices and endcuts on paper towels and then baked them in an oven for a few hours afterwards to purge the moisture. Amazingly, I did a decent job cutting them - very few saw marks and nice even flat cuts. Some slices have no visible saw marks without using a loupe to see them. I haven't sanded or polished any of them yet. I don't think the NWA 869 slices need polishing - they look quite good as-is. The Oum Dreyga shows a dual lithology or some clasts (not sure what terminology to use). It reminds me of how Peekskill looks on the inside. Maybe it's brecciated? I'll try to post some pics. There are also some nice well-defined chondrules. One last observation about my first cutting experience - the 6" lapidary saw was alot quieter than I expected it to be. I also expected a big mess from coolant being flung everywhere - this didn't happen either. In fact, the wife didn't even know I had been cutting until afterwards. She couldn't hear it from the garage. I guess I was expecting something loud like a circular saw. LOL I had fun cutting stuff and now I can't wait to start cutting other rocks and stuff. :) Regards, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From mikewren at gilanet.com Sat Jun 27 00:08:12 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:08:12 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fired up the saw for the first time today! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9A98064F-C1BD-417B-A5E0-89F78F147274@gilanet.com> Hello, Congrats, you just entered an amazing world of endless discovery and excitement. After countless of meteorite cuts (maybe 5,000 or more) I still love opening up a meteorite for the first time. Meteorites, remind me of books and each cut is like turning a page of a story... Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On Jun 26, 2009, at 8:29 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > Hi Listees! > > I finally fired up my saw today and did my first cuts! > > First, I had no idea that cutting stony meteorites was so EASY. > Albeit, I was cutting small ones. > > I did my very first cut on a non-descript UNWA stone. It cut right in > half like butter. So, then I was feeling increasingly brave, so I cut > some NWA 869 and Oum Dreyga. It was surprising how easy it was to cut > nice, thin, and even slices. The NWA 869 and Oum Dreyga turned out > very nice - the latter has black crust around the edges. All of the > slices are small - the Oum Dreyga slices were made from a 10 gram > crusted chunk and the NWA 869 was cut from a 42 gram stone. > > I also cut several oddball meteorites I have been sitting on for a > while - waiting for a saw. Most were run of the mill H-type > chondrites with metal flecks a few sparse chondrules. One was an > Al-Hagg type EL chondrite. But one was interesting. It has a grey > matrix with dark grey and white clasts. It also has a few ill-defined > chondrules. The stone shows a very slight attraction to a neo-magnet > and I don't think it's a wrong. (although I could be wrong) - it > bears a visual resemblance to a eucrite. I'll snap some photos and > post them soon. > > I used distilled water as a coolant. After cutting I dried the slices > and endcuts on paper towels and then baked them in an oven for a few > hours afterwards to purge the moisture. Amazingly, I did a decent job > cutting them - very few saw marks and nice even flat cuts. Some > slices have no visible saw marks without using a loupe to see them. I > haven't sanded or polished any of them yet. I don't think the NWA 869 > slices need polishing - they look quite good as-is. The Oum Dreyga > shows a dual lithology or some clasts (not sure what terminology to > use). It reminds me of how Peekskill looks on the inside. Maybe it's > brecciated? I'll try to post some pics. There are also some nice > well-defined chondrules. > > One last observation about my first cutting experience - the 6" > lapidary saw was alot quieter than I expected it to be. I also > expected a big mess from coolant being flung everywhere - this didn't > happen either. In fact, the wife didn't even know I had been cutting > until afterwards. She couldn't hear it from the garage. I guess I > was expecting something loud like a circular saw. LOL > > I had fun cutting stuff and now I can't wait to start cutting other > rocks and stuff. :) > > Regards, > > MikeG > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat Jun 27 01:07:41 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:07:41 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fired up the saw for the first time today! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A45A91D.40000@meteoritesusa.com> Hey Mike, A big congrats! I warn you though it's quite addicting... ;) You're gonna want to cut everything now just to see what's inside. It's like Christmas every time you cut into one. Just when you think you know what's inside they always surprise you. I'm with Michael C, it really is an amazing world of discovery. I couldn't say it better. To see what's inside a stone that you love so much just makes it that much more interesting. You learn more about them each time you cut into one. Welcome to a new world inside meteorites! Eric Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > Hi Listees! > > I finally fired up my saw today and did my first cuts! > > First, I had no idea that cutting stony meteorites was so EASY. > Albeit, I was cutting small ones. > > I did my very first cut on a non-descript UNWA stone. It cut right in > half like butter. So, then I was feeling increasingly brave, so I cut > some NWA 869 and Oum Dreyga. It was surprising how easy it was to cut > nice, thin, and even slices. The NWA 869 and Oum Dreyga turned out > very nice - the latter has black crust around the edges. All of the > slices are small - the Oum Dreyga slices were made from a 10 gram > crusted chunk and the NWA 869 was cut from a 42 gram stone. > > I also cut several oddball meteorites I have been sitting on for a > while - waiting for a saw. Most were run of the mill H-type > chondrites with metal flecks a few sparse chondrules. One was an > Al-Hagg type EL chondrite. But one was interesting. It has a grey > matrix with dark grey and white clasts. It also has a few ill-defined > chondrules. The stone shows a very slight attraction to a neo-magnet > and I don't think it's a wrong. (although I could be wrong) - it > bears a visual resemblance to a eucrite. I'll snap some photos and > post them soon. > > I used distilled water as a coolant. After cutting I dried the slices > and endcuts on paper towels and then baked them in an oven for a few > hours afterwards to purge the moisture. Amazingly, I did a decent job > cutting them - very few saw marks and nice even flat cuts. Some > slices have no visible saw marks without using a loupe to see them. I > haven't sanded or polished any of them yet. I don't think the NWA 869 > slices need polishing - they look quite good as-is. The Oum Dreyga > shows a dual lithology or some clasts (not sure what terminology to > use). It reminds me of how Peekskill looks on the inside. Maybe it's > brecciated? I'll try to post some pics. There are also some nice > well-defined chondrules. > > One last observation about my first cutting experience - the 6" > lapidary saw was alot quieter than I expected it to be. I also > expected a big mess from coolant being flung everywhere - this didn't > happen either. In fact, the wife didn't even know I had been cutting > until afterwards. She couldn't hear it from the garage. I guess I > was expecting something loud like a circular saw. LOL > > I had fun cutting stuff and now I can't wait to start cutting other > rocks and stuff. :) > > Regards, > > MikeG > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From p.marmet at sunrise.ch Sat Jun 27 12:06:39 2009 From: p.marmet at sunrise.ch (Peter Marmet) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:06:39 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2009: a few picts... Message-ID: <871799a20906270906r6cc024a1j5077ff4a44f78b72@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, finally a few picts of the Ensisheim Show 2009: http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id50.html http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id51.html Sorry, I was too busy to take a lot of picts... Cheers, Peter Peter Marmet Bern, Switzerland http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ From jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk Sat Jun 27 12:29:37 2009 From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk (jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:29:37 +0100 (BST) Subject: [meteorite-list] fired up the saw for first time-----me too, looking blades Message-ID: <25365671.21101246120177252.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> Congrats Mike G funny enough I just fired mine up for the first time yesterday. I finally managed to pick up a Buehler isomet second-hand after many years looking for one.What a joy to cut thru those 11 nwa 869.On the 12th one however I didn't have the specimen held securely enough in the chuck and it spun out and chipped the blade boohoo.Now I recall seeing plenty of links given on the list for suppliers of blades and different recommendations and I have tried to search for those threads with no success so far.There is no 'mass search' feature that I'm missing is there? I am in the process of buying more from buehler but I'd like more options,if anyone could be so kind as to go thru their 'favourites links' or bookmarks and post some suppliers I'd be very grateful.Google sometimes isn't necessarily your friend happy cutting and meteorite joy Jim B http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=suppliers+of+saw+blades+uk From bristolia at yahoo.com Sat Jun 27 17:25:02 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (bristolia at yahoo.com) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:25:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Article About Alleged Louisiana Tektites Message-ID: <181840.71662.qm@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> DDear Friends, There is an article, ?Reevaluation of Tektites Reported from Rapides Parish, Louisiana,? about Dr. King?s 1970 report of tektites having been found in Louisiana. This article is in the Summer 2009 (vol. 19, no. 1) issue of the ?Louisiana Geological Survey NewsInsights.? The link to the PDF file can be found in ?06/22/2009 - The LGS Summer 2009 Newsletter is out!? at: http://www.lgs.lsu.edu/deploy/content/NEWS1/newsitems.php The PDF file of this newsletter and the article that it contains can be directly downloaded from: http://www.lgs.lsu.edu/deploy/uploads/Summer_09_LGS_Newsletter.pdf Yours, Paul H. From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Sat Jun 27 17:32:19 2009 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:32:19 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - Micros up to my ears - Armanty Iron Message-ID: <9257C77028F0439EBE0BBF6C28E55890@windows9bb74fe> Hello all - I bought a collection this week and have some pieces to sell in the micro department. Selling this as a set, 50 locations, $150 + shipping for any interested. http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/micros.htm I also have another set for $200 that includes some gems like: Tagish Lake Monahans Weston Murchison Portales Valley Kainsaz Brenham Gao Individual Cumberland Falls Henbury NWA 801 Holbrook Individual NWA 3119 and an 8 gram Gibeon Finally I have several micros of the very hard to get Armanty IIIE Iron at $20 each Anyone looking to wholesale on some bulk micros can also look me up. Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/nakhladog ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sat Jun 27 18:50:15 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:50:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would you like to keep more of your money? Message-ID: <42685.86337.qm@web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I have found a nice way to "beat the system" when it comes to getting money with paypal. Instead of sending money with the purchase tab, use the personal tab and you will not have to pay the paypal fees when you recieve the money. This can add up to substantial savings over time. Dealers, all you need to do is ask the person buying from you is for them to instead of clicking the purchase tab, click the personal tab on the paypal send money page. You will pay NO FEES on the money you recieve! Again, this will add up to nice savings over time. Hope this will help some of you out there, in tough times (and good ones) every little bit helps. Greg C. From cynapse at charter.net Sat Jun 27 19:57:21 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:57:21 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Here's an old article In-Reply-To: <42685.86337.qm@web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <42685.86337.qm@web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://books.google.com/books?id=EXMCAAAAIAAJ&dq=aerolite&pg=PA34 From tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com Sat Jun 27 19:55:12 2009 From: tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com (Tom Randall (KB2SMS)) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:55:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim '09 photos - double shoot :) Message-ID: <8DD1A9FE-B5A5-4233-8622-7B2D742AB3A9@hvc.rr.com> VERY nice photos Marcin! Thank you! Tom Randall -- In just two days, tomorrow will be yesterday. http://home.roadrunner.com/~kb2sms/ From markig at westnet.com Sat Jun 27 22:49:03 2009 From: markig at westnet.com (Mark Grossman) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 22:49:03 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would you like to keep more of your money? References: <42685.86337.qm@web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes, but does the buyer get the PayPal protection that is advertised on the listing if the money is sent to an individual instead of to a seller as a purchase? Mark Grossman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Catterton" To: Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 6:50 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would you like to keep more of your money? > > I have found a nice way to "beat the system" when it comes to getting > money with paypal. > Instead of sending money with the purchase tab, use the personal tab and > you will not have to pay the paypal fees when you recieve the money. > This can add up to substantial savings over time. > > Dealers, all you need to do is ask the person buying from you is for them > to instead of clicking the purchase tab, click the personal tab on the > paypal send money page. > You will pay NO FEES on the money you recieve! > Again, this will add up to nice savings over time. > > Hope this will help some of you out there, in tough times (and good ones) > every little bit helps. > > Greg C. > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From gmhupe at htn.net Sat Jun 27 23:11:14 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:11:14 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 26, 2009 References: Message-ID: <726D84CCA8DA4A9AA131F8BC6553AE88@Gregor> This one looks like a face looking to the left side of the meteorite. It has an eye (natural hole), nose, grinning mouth and chin. Pretty cool! Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:20 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 26, 2009 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_26_2009.html > > > > > > > > > > __________________________ > > **************Shop Popular Dell Laptops now starting at $349! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222031056x1201446063/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.dou > bleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910283%3B38350812%3Ba) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From pgspears at cox.net Sat Jun 27 23:28:08 2009 From: pgspears at cox.net (Paul G. Spears) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:28:08 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Scale cube Message-ID: <99DD6E1C38D1432A9DBF63E1A335CEA9@COMPAQLAPTOP> Hi, listees: There seem to be two scale cubes, a 1-cm and a 1-in. Can anyone give me a lead to a source for them? I found one 1-cm at $38. Is that the going price? Happy hunting! pgspears From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sat Jun 27 23:47:37 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would you like to keep more of your money? Message-ID: <3165.15755.qm@web46402.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> >From what I have read and understand yes, you are still covered. I have tested this with a couple payments I have made, all have worked without the fees. This is more for off ebay purchases with people that are reputable and you (or anyone else) has bought from in the past. I know I will be offering a portion of what I will save to the buyers who use this method. This way, Its not so one sided and will benifit both parties. As with any transaction, make sure the person is reliable with this method or the normal one, but for payments to guys like Greg/Adam Hupe and others (just as examples)- who you know are honest and reliable, this method would be good option to use and the seller may offer a portion of the cost is price reduction like I am going to do. Sure it may just come out to a few dollars here and there, but over time it adds up. Greg --- On Sat, 6/27/09, Mark Grossman wrote: > From: Mark Grossman > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would you like to keep more of your money? > To: "Greg Catterton" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 10:49 PM > Yes,? but does the buyer get the > PayPal protection that is advertised on the listing if the > money is sent to an individual instead of to a seller as a > purchase? > > Mark Grossman > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Catterton" > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 6:50 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would you like to keep > more of your money? > > > > > > I have found a nice way to "beat the system" when it > comes to getting money with paypal. > > Instead of sending money with the purchase tab, use > the personal tab and you will not have to pay the paypal > fees when you recieve the money. > > This can add up to substantial savings over time. > > > > Dealers, all you need to do is ask the person buying > from you is for them to instead of clicking the purchase > tab, click the personal tab on the paypal send money page. > > You will pay NO FEES on the money you recieve! > > Again, this will add up to nice savings over time. > > > > Hope this will help some of you out there, in tough > times (and good ones) every little bit helps. > > > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > From damoclid at yahoo.com Sun Jun 28 00:06:03 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:06:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Scale cube Message-ID: <873777.60315.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have blue plastic 1-cm cubes which do NOT have any markings on them available, 2 for a dollar plus $1.50 shipping in the US. Contact me off list if you are interested. -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 --- On Sat, 6/27/09, Paul G. Spears wrote: > From: Paul G. Spears > Subject: [meteorite-list] Scale cube > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 8:28 PM > Hi, listees: > There seem to be two scale cubes, a 1-cm and a 1-in.? > Can anyone give me a > lead to a source for them?? I found one 1-cm at > $38.? Is that the going > price?? Happy hunting! > pgspears > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com Sun Jun 28 00:34:41 2009 From: LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com (LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 00:34:41 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would you like to keep more of your money? Message-ID: Good evening Folks, In theory this method to "beat the system" makes a lot of sense. One caveat, however. It is against PayPal policy, as of June 3, and they threaten to sanction you if they catch you. You can presume that they will probably have some software running that will flag accounts with a significant changeover from commercial payments to personal ones. Here is their position on the idea: ""Beginning June 3, 2009 PayPal user agreement is being amended as follows: 1. Section 4.2 of the user agreement will read as follows: ?4.2 Receiving Payments for Commercial Transactions and Personal Transactions. a. Fees depend on whether you are making a commercial transaction or a personal transaction. A commercial transaction involves buying and selling goods or services, and payments received when you send a ?request money? using PayPal. A personal transaction involves sending money to and receiving money from friends and family without making a purchase. b. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a personal payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept personal payments.?" Best regards, Paul Martyn Savannah In a message dated 6/27/2009 11:48:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, star_wars_collector at yahoo.com writes: >From what I have read and understand yes, you are still covered. I have tested this with a couple payments I have made, all have worked without the fees. This is more for off ebay purchases with people that are reputable and you (or anyone else) has bought from in the past. I know I will be offering a portion of what I will save to the buyers who use this method. This way, Its not so one sided and will benifit both parties. As with any transaction, make sure the person is reliable with this method or the normal one, but for payments to guys like Greg/Adam Hupe and others (just as examples)- who you know are honest and reliable, this method would be good option to use and the seller may offer a portion of the cost is price reduction like I am going to do. Sure it may just come out to a few dollars here and there, but over time it adds up. Greg --- On Sat, 6/27/09, Mark Grossman wrote: > From: Mark Grossman > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would you like to keep more of your money? > To: "Greg Catterton" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 10:49 PM > Yes, but does the buyer get the > PayPal protection that is advertised on the listing if the > money is sent to an individual instead of to a seller as a > purchase? > > Mark Grossman > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Catterton" > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 6:50 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would you like to keep > more of your money? > > > > > > I have found a nice way to "beat the system" when it > comes to getting money with paypal. > > Instead of sending money with the purchase tab, use > the personal tab and you will not have to pay the paypal > fees when you recieve the money. > > This can add up to substantial savings over time. > > > > Dealers, all you need to do is ask the person buying > from you is for them to instead of clicking the purchase > tab, click the personal tab on the paypal send money page. > > You will pay NO FEES on the money you recieve! > > Again, this will add up to nice savings over time. > > > > Hope this will help some of you out there, in tough > times (and good ones) every little bit helps. > > > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323006x1201367222/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From deanbessey at yahoo.com Sun Jun 28 00:32:39 2009 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:32:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would you like to keep more of your money? Message-ID: <860051.4565.qm@web56103.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I hadent seen that before. Yes, clicking personal on the send payment option does bring up more options that I hadnt realized was there. I pay paypal between $500 and $1000 a month so it could save me money. So who wants to buy something from my website and try it and see if it works? Maybe I could entice somebody with a 25% discount on anything on my website www.meteoriteshop.com to see if it actually works Cheers DEAN www.meteoriteshop.com --- On Sat, 6/27/09, Mark Grossman wrote: > From: Mark Grossman > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would you like to keep more of your money? > To: "Greg Catterton" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 7:49 PM > Yes,? but does the buyer get the > PayPal protection that is advertised on the listing if the > money is sent to an individual instead of to a seller as a > purchase? > > Mark Grossman > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Catterton" > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 6:50 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would you like to keep > more of your money? > > > > > > I have found a nice way to "beat the system" when it > comes to getting money with paypal. > > Instead of sending money with the purchase tab, use > the personal tab and you will not have to pay the paypal > fees when you recieve the money. > > This can add up to substantial savings over time. > > > > Dealers, all you need to do is ask the person buying > from you is for them to instead of clicking the purchase > tab, click the personal tab on the paypal send money page. > > You will pay NO FEES on the money you recieve! > > Again, this will add up to nice savings over time. > > > > Hope this will help some of you out there, in tough > times (and good ones) every little bit helps. > > > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sun Jun 28 00:39:54 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would you like to keep more of your money? Message-ID: <990589.21467.qm@web46408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> A personal/private transaction I dont think would be considered as commercial. I think they are more concerned with ebay deals then off ebay transactions. It does clearly state under the personal are for sending payments that there is a thing to click for money owed. Thanks for pointing that out. Greg C. --- On Sun, 6/28/09, LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com wrote: > From: LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would you like to keep more of your money? > To: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 12:34 AM > Good evening Folks, > > In theory this method to "beat the system"? makes a > lot of sense. > > One caveat, however.? It is against PayPal? > policy, as of June 3, and they > threaten to sanction you if they catch? you.? You > can presume that they will > probably have some software? running that will flag > accounts with a > significant changeover from commercial? payments to > personal ones. > > Here is their position on the? idea: > ""Beginning June 3, 2009 PayPal user agreement is being > amended as? follows: > 1. Section 4.2 of the user agreement will read as follows: > ?4.2? Receiving Payments for Commercial Transactions > and Personal > Transactions. > a. Fees depend on whether you are making a commercial > transaction or a > personal transaction. A commercial transaction involves > buying and selling > goods? or services, and payments received when you > send a ?request money? using > PayPal.? A personal transaction involves sending money > to and receiving > money from? friends and family without making a > purchase. > b. If you are selling goods or? services, you may not > ask the buyer to send > you a personal payment for the? purchase. If you do > so, PayPal may remove > your ability to accept personal? payments.?" > > Best regards, > > Paul Martyn > Savannah > > > > > In a message dated 6/27/2009 11:48:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight > Time, > star_wars_collector at yahoo.com > writes: > > >From what I have read and? understand yes, you are > still covered. > I have tested this with a couple? payments I have > made, all have worked > without the fees. > > This is more for? off ebay purchases with people that > are reputable and you > (or anyone else) has? bought from in the past. I know > I will be offering a > portion of what I will save? to the buyers who use > this method. This way, > Its not so one sided and will? benifit both parties. > As with any transaction, make sure the person is? > reliable with this method > or the normal one, but for payments to guys like? > Greg/Adam Hupe and others > (just as examples)- who you know are honest and? > reliable, this method > would be good option to use and the seller may offer > a? portion of the cost is > price reduction like I am going to do. Sure it may > just? come out to a few > dollars here and there, but over time it adds? up. > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 6/27/09, Mark? Grossman > wrote: > > > From: Mark Grossman? > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would? you > like to keep more of > your money? > > To: "Greg Catterton"? , > meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 10:49? PM > > Yes,? but does the buyer get the > > PayPal protection that? is advertised on the > listing if the > > money is sent to an individual? instead of to a > seller as a > > purchase? > > > > Mark? Grossman > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Catterton" > > > To:? > > Sent: Saturday, June 27,? 2009 6:50 PM > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Sellers, would you like > to? keep > > more of your money? > > > > > > > > > > I? have found a nice way to "beat the > system" when it > > comes to getting? money with paypal. > > > Instead of sending money with the purchase > tab,? use > > the personal tab and you will not have to pay the > paypal > >? fees when you recieve the money. > > > This can add up to substantial? savings over > time. > > > > > > Dealers, all you need to do is ask? the > person buying > > from you is for them to instead of clicking the? > purchase > > tab, click the personal tab on the paypal send > money? page. > > > You will pay NO FEES on the money you recieve! > > >? Again, this will add up to nice savings > over time. > > > > > >? Hope this will help some of you out there, > in tough > > times (and good? ones) every little bit helps. > > > > > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > ______________________________________________ > > >? http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > >? > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > >? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list? mailing? list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours > in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323006x1201367222/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun > eExcfooterNO62) > From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sun Jun 28 08:27:26 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 08:27:26 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 28, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_28_2009.html __________________________ **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323006x1201367222/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jun 28 08:50:32 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 05:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: Tamdakht Message-ID: <823085.81610.qm@web110602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi everyone, after a couple of weeks in Europe, I will be home tomorrow. I was able to acquire a nice large batch of many kilos of Tamdakht in France. I have many pieces, from 3 kilos down, fragments and individuals. Email me if you want a nice piece, at a good price. There was little of it for sale here, and the price in Euros was quite high. Michael Farmer From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jun 28 12:56:53 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:56:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay pain in the $%$$ Message-ID: <558669.2656.qm@web110608.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Does anyone know this person? Ebay name: graftonwisconsin Beware, a total waste of time. He won a whopping $1.50 item from me, it was shipped two weeks ago, apparently he emailed me an ebay question, waited one day and started filing complaints and pay-pal charge-backs, now a negative feedback. All this because I am traveling and could not answer his question in a matter of hours. I have hundreds of Brenham crystals, and would gladly send replacement if given more than an hour or two to respond! I would recommend blocking him unless you want the same headaches for this kind of chump-change buyer. Michael Farmer From meteoriteguy at yahoo.com Sun Jun 28 15:31:08 2009 From: meteoriteguy at yahoo.com (Michael Farmer) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:31:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay pain in the $%$$ Message-ID: <141955.19723.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I guess this guy is going nuts all over the internet, on that worthless Skyrockcafe website and to the IMCA. Since I am not a member, that should be fun. Funny, I have thousands of positive feedbacks and now 2 negatives! I guess that proves how badly I treat my buyers. So, in order to prevent these problems, now my Ebay shipping cost to the buyers will increase to $3.00 for any item, this will allow me to print shipping confirmation for every US package. Too bad this kind of scam has to hit us all, as I have always prided myelf with rapid service, usually shipped same day paid, and lowest ebay shipping costs around, that gets me chargebacks as you must provide shipping tracking even for $1.00 item, kind of lame since that would cost around $20.00 for EXPRESS UPS OR FEDEX Anyone else here had problems with me shipping? Do I steal your items? No, don?t think so. Sellers, be warned these people are ready to hit you for every nickel, paypal refunds their money instantly, and sellers cant even leave negative feedback to tell who bad buyers are anymore, it is a wonder why we use ebay at all. Michael Farmer --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay pain in the $%$$ > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 10:56 AM > > Does anyone know this person? > Ebay name: > > graftonwisconsin > > Beware, a total waste of time. He won a whopping $1.50 item > from me, it was shipped two weeks ago, apparently he emailed > me an ebay question, waited one day and started filing > complaints and pay-pal charge-backs, now a negative > feedback. All this because I am traveling and could not > answer his question in a matter of hours.? I have > hundreds of Brenham crystals, and would gladly send > replacement if given more than an hour or two to respond! > I would recommend blocking him unless you want the same > headaches for this kind of chump-change buyer. > Michael Farmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun Jun 28 16:00:09 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:00:09 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : In Honor of Billy Mays - You loved him, you hated him, at least he didn't sell meteorites! Message-ID: Hi Listees! Famous television pitchman Billy Mays was found dead of unexplained causes this morning in my hometown of Tampa Florida. No more new Oxi-Clean commercials, no more Kaboom cleaner infomercials, and no more black-beared, bellowing pitchman extolling the virtues of the latest revolutionary product. We mocked him, we were annoyed by him, but Oxi-Clean does make your whites brighter and Kaboom does clean tough stains - just like he promised. Billy Mays, RIP. And now for something completely different... Oum Dreyga slices! Yes, that's right! Oum Dreyga, witnessed fall, H3-5 chondrite from the old Rio de Oro! This isn't your run of the mill meteorite! It's a brecciated stone with a striking matrix full of interest. No collection is complete without it. I wouldn't even walk around out in public if I didn't own a piece. I have several small Oum Dreyga slices that are thin and have lots of surface area. Good bang for the buck. These are all in the micromount size range (<1 gr) and they come with a gemjar and label. Supply is limited, so order now. But wait, there's more! NWA 869! The perennial aesthetic favorite is now coming to your collection in slice form. I have beautiful thin slices of this stunning Algerian meteorite. These slices all weigh between 4 and 5 grams and are about the size of a business card. They have been hand-sanded to 300 grit and show the classic NWA 869 lithology we all know and love. Kids love it. Again, supplies are limited, so act now! Order in the next 10 minutes and receive a free grab-bag of unclassified NWA endcuts! Mention Billy Mays in the order form comment field and receive a free classified micromount! All of this and more is available on the website : www.galactic-stone.com To order or inquire, contact me offlist at - mike at galactic-stone.com ;) ----------------------------------------------------- Ok, I was temporarily possessed by the restless spirit of Billy Mays, but he has now departed. Speaking for myself - I have auctions closing on eBay tonight. Some have no bids yet, so there are some good bargains to be won. Moon and Mars Rocks, Tumbled Meteorites, Canyon Diablo display kit, Darwin Glass and more. http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle ------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for looking and clear skies! MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 28 16:57:48 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:57:48 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] test, sorry Message-ID: <006901c9f833$186a9af0$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> this is just a test.. sorry, I wasn't getting through with an email, thanks From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Sun Jun 28 17:08:34 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:08:34 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Sale auctions ending on ebay today and new specimens added this weekend Message-ID: <007901c9f834$9cc73aa0$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Hello, How are you fellow meteorite collectors today? I have a few meteorites ending on ebay this weekend and I've listed a few new specimens including a few buy-it-now such as Lake Murray, from Oklahoma, "A Very Nice Large, Rarely Available Specimen, especially in this size and Barrilla from Texas and a very hard to find and beautiful Tishomingo from Oklahoma and Tagish Lake from Canada Los Angeles001 LA001 from Mars and Zagami from Mars, as well as a few Miles from Australia. Please have a look at my ebay seller's page. http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/searchingforfun Thanks for looking! Brian Cox IMCA# 6387 searchingforfun is my ebay User ID LAKE MURRAY Meteorite 68.0g COA IMCA IIAB VERYRARE NICE RARELY AVAILABLE IIAB OCTAHEDRITE OLDEST KNOWN INTACT Item number: 280364113900 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=280364113900 BARRILLA Meteorite 10.57g COA IMCA H5 PECOS TEXAS NICE Beautiful Specimen rarely available, hasn't been seen l Item number: 270416857583 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&salenotsupported=true&item=270416857583 TISHOMINGO Meteorite 23.g COA IMCA Iron Oklahoma RARE Beautiful Specimen rarely available NICE TCU Iron ungro Item number: 270416869152 Los Angeles 001 L.A.001 Meteorite IMCA MARS SHERGOTTITE Item number: 280361701056 Los Angeles 001 L.A.001 Meteorite IMCA MARS SHERGOTTITE Item number: 270413268486 Tagish Lake Meteorite COA IMCA C2 Ungrouped CANADA Item number: 280362936554 Tagish Lake Meteorite COA IMCA C2 Ungrouped CANADA Item number: 280362937651 Tagish Lake Meteorite COA IMCA C2 Ungrouped CANADA Item number: 280362938732 ZAGAMI Meteorite IMCA COA MARS SHERGOTTITE fragment Item number: 270415119629 MILES Meteorite Iron IIE Sili Australia .113g COA IMCA Item number: 270416402155 MILES Meteorite Iron IIE Sili Australia 1.04g COA IMCA Item number: 280363885385 From fujmon at mac.com Sun Jun 28 17:34:00 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:34:00 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Mauna Kea Astronomy Playing Cards Message-ID: <127E534B-1ECC-4568-9C61-DF749B58CEC9@mac.com> Aloha, In celebration of the 2009 International Year of Astronomy, Mauna Kea Observatories Outreach Committee has developed a unique product that showcases the observatories on Mauna Kea and the cutting-edge research being done there. These beautiful and informative playing cards are a limited edition, and not available in stores. I have a limited number of sets personally purchased, and am making them available until they run out. Cost is $12 per set + $3 shipping in the US. Mauna Kea Astronomy Playing Cards: Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From jnbran at verizon.net Sun Jun 28 19:07:34 2009 From: jnbran at verizon.net (JASON PHILLIPS) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:07:34 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Offers on 100kg Brenham In-Reply-To: <006901c9f833$186a9af0$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> References: <006901c9f833$186a9af0$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Message-ID: <9693D2BD20B240D0A185CEFA83B064A1@AcerPC> Hello List, My 100 kilogram Brenham pallasite did not sell during it's 10 day stint on eBay, so I am going accept offers on this world class meteorite specimen for the next few days. I will be considering all cash offers, part cash/part trade offers, and just trade offers. If you have any interest, even slightly, contact me and we can discuss many different options on this specimen. Take Care, Jason Phillips Rocks from Heaven 217-832-4505- telephone www.rocksfromheaven.com From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Sun Jun 28 19:24:23 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 0:24:23 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial age of Taza? In-Reply-To: <127E534B-1ECC-4568-9C61-DF749B58CEC9@mac.com> Message-ID: <20090629002423.RMQW6.114896.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi All, Firstly.... Great to see everyone at Ensisheim again, another very enjoyable weekend, great atmosphere and amazing specimens on show. Many thanks to Zelimir for all his hard work and hospitality and to Peter Davidson for his company travelling to the show and during the event....great historical display from the Museums of Scotland. Then... Anyone have any info on the terrestrial age of the Taza meteorite. Has anyone done any work/dating estimating when it fell? Graham Ensor From fujmon at mac.com Sun Jun 28 22:00:17 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:00:17 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Cleanout Sale, pt 2 Message-ID: <91E063AF-F95D-4495-A1D3-90ED0DB37BDB@mac.com> Aloha, I have some meteorites that I am willing to part with (due to type or specimen duplication). There is a wide variety with stuff for every budget, and all will be shipped within the US at no charge: webpage w/ pix: http://astroday.net/meteorites4sale.html Wadi Melene (Sah 02500) L3.8 12.3g endcut $50 Sulagiri LL6 0.25g crusted fragments $15, 0.34g crusted fragment $20 Zunhua 21g internal fragment *inquire* (not much of this material available) Murchison CM2 0.58g fragment $100 (fresh fragment ... smells like a Murchison) NWA 4657 CK4 29.63g crusted slice $350 (one of the freshest CK carbonaceous) Tafassasset CR An 9.4g crusted slice $175 Seymchan Pal 33.6g slice $100, 76g slice $228 NWA 1817 Mes 120g slice $360 (fat slab could be further sliced) NWA 4576 Mes 13g endcut $50 NWA 5611 Euc 18.4g relic crusted quarter endcut $184 Indochinite Tektite 106.6g $20 Libyan Desert Glass 14.86g $30 Just send me an email or call (88) 640-9161 for more information or to order. I can accept payment by check, money order or Paypal. Mahalo for looking ... going surfin' now! http://astroday.net/meteorites4sale.html Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sun Jun 28 22:45:58 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:45:58 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: This weeks meteorites for sale... Message-ID: <4A482AE6.80507@meteoritesusa.com> Hello Everyone, I'm having my largest sale to date. Over 250 items are listed most are rare, and professionally prepped collectible pieces. Some very nice HUGE brecciated slices, polished slices, part slices, end cuts, and large whole stones and loads of other high quality unclassified meteorite specimens. All Meteorites 10% OFF: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/freel3orn Select items: 20%, 30%, 40%, & 50% OFF to be announced throughout tonight and all week. Join my newsletter for advanced notice when I drop prices on select special items all week this week. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/newsletter Meteorite Collection Sale: I've put together 18 rare hand picked, prepped, and/or polished meteorites that I've added to the collection. These pieces are top notch superb meteorite specimens I have accumulated over time based on quality and aesthetics. This collection also includes the 117.5g end cut of the stinky meteorite I talked about last week... ;) Plus a magnificent unclassified achondrite meteorite, some BIG polished end cuts and more... Please contact me off-list for price and list of items in this collection. Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA 904-236-5394 From almitt at kconline.com Sun Jun 28 22:32:34 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:32:34 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial age of Taza? In-Reply-To: <20090629002423.RMQW6.114896.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> References: <20090629002423.RMQW6.114896.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Message-ID: <460F0A11A1D54A45ADE9EF1C6C6A0DD4@StarmanPC> Greetings Graham, I know that my piece and a number of specimens I sold of Taza show a bluish fusion crust under the mild oxidized fusion crust. To me that suggests that Taza couldn't have been around for too very long and is probably more of a recent fall than one that has spent a thousand years or longer on the surface. For what ever it is worth. --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "MeteorList" Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 7:24 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Terrestrial age of Taza? > Hi All, > > Firstly.... > > Great to see everyone at Ensisheim again, another very enjoyable weekend, > great atmosphere and amazing specimens on show. Many thanks to Zelimir for > all his hard work and hospitality and to Peter Davidson for his company > travelling to the show and during the event....great historical display > from the Museums of Scotland. > > Then... > > Anyone have any info on the terrestrial age of the Taza meteorite. > Has anyone done any work/dating estimating when it fell? > > Graham Ensor > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From mike.chamberlain at comcast.net Sun Jun 28 23:07:13 2009 From: mike.chamberlain at comcast.net (Michael Chamberlain) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:07:13 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fly-by! References: <006901c9f833$186a9af0$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Message-ID: <1EA4286BE8E64BF8B63AC95A590118B0@mikeamt3pxapcq> Yesterday, while returning from a business trip in New Orleans, after a couple of boring hours of flying, I look out the window and there on the flat Arizona plain, Meteor Crater! Nobody else on the palne seemed the least bit interested, but from 38,000 feet without a cloud to be seen, what a sight! Mike From almitt at kconline.com Sun Jun 28 23:28:52 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:28:52 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Lafayette, Indiana Martian Meteorite In-Reply-To: <1DABEE61C20C499B8853606E0F6AEEBA@StarmanPC> References: <006301c9ee98$b48710c0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <1DABEE61C20C499B8853606E0F6AEEBA@StarmanPC> Message-ID: <31A50C012270443DB6641C0745FC4A37@StarmanPC> Greetings, I have a Lafayette ending in about 20 hours. This is one of the largest specimens offered of this material in a long time on ebay. You can see all my Ads here: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/almittmet_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZ All my best! --AL Mitterling From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Sun Jun 28 23:52:08 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:52:08 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fly-by! In-Reply-To: <1EA4286BE8E64BF8B63AC95A590118B0@mikeamt3pxapcq> References: <006901c9f833$186a9af0$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> <1EA4286BE8E64BF8B63AC95A590118B0@mikeamt3pxapcq> Message-ID: Most people just look for dropped coins while they walk. I've done a few "fly-by's" myself, Mike - thanks to Google Earth ;) Cheers, Pete ---------------------------------------- > From: mike.chamberlain at comcast.net > To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:07:13 -0700 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Fly-by! > > Yesterday, while returning from a business trip in New Orleans, after a > couple of boring hours of flying, I look out the window and there on the > flat Arizona plain, Meteor Crater! Nobody else on the palne seemed the > least bit interested, but from 38,000 feet without a cloud to be seen, what > a sight! > > Mike > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ We are your photos. Share us now with Windows Live Photos. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9666047 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Mon Jun 29 00:28:10 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:28:10 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 29, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_29_2009.html __________________________ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823281x1201398699/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Mon Jun 29 00:36:00 2009 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:36:00 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 29, 2009 References: Message-ID: <3E4289D396364E999D9A9DD124841081@windows9bb74fe> Daaaaaaaaamn Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/nakhladog ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:28 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 29, 2009 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_29_2009.html > > > > > > > > __________________________ > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823281x1201398699/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > JunestepsfooterNO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From claudiu at tanaselia.ro Mon Jun 29 01:56:42 2009 From: claudiu at tanaselia.ro (Claudiu Tanaselia) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:56:42 +0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another Tunguska theory Message-ID: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090629-tunguska-comet.html For short, they say it was a comet. Claudiu. From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon Jun 29 02:53:16 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 29, 2009 Message-ID: <127443.9041.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> What is there about this that makes me think it wasn't photographed in situ? just kidding --but as always thanks Michael for making these envy-arousing shots each day! Elton --- On Mon, 6/29/09, Rob Wesel wrote: > Daaaaaaaaamn > > Rob Wesel > www.nakhladogmeteorites.com > www.facebook.com/nakhladog From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de Mon Jun 29 05:13:51 2009 From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Meteorite-Recon.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:13:51 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Scale cube ad Message-ID: <1959676.322261246266832045.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver> Hi list, as Dave was so kind point out I do currently have eleven NASA-type scale cubes from the last production series left. I'll be happy to send you close up images of the 1 cm cube, just drop me an e-mail off list. Price including shipping to the US is 30 EUR. best regards Svend www.meteorite-recon.com ---------------- Paul wrote: Hi, listees: There seem to be two scale cubes, a 1-cm and a 1-in. Can anyone give me a lead to a source for them? I found one 1-cm at $38. Is that the going price? Happy hunting! pgspears ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- www.meteorite-recon.com From caubeck at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 07:40:52 2009 From: caubeck at gmail.com (chris aubeck) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:40:52 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite exhibit in South Dakota, 1914-1920 - anyone heard of it? Message-ID: <3a5693b30906290440r4a2615ele24647c8ab382c65@mail.gmail.com> Hi colleagues, The Morning Republican of South Dakota (October 1920) described a meteorite that was discovered somewhere between Alpena and Wessington Springs in South Dakota in 1910. Its finder was a Mrs. A. A. Barnhardt, who by 1914 had put the object on display in the state capital, where it remained for six years. The rock weighed nearly six pounds, was eight inches long, four inches thick, and five inches wide. Physically its shape resembled a serpent?s head Mrs Barnhardt was exhibiting it in October 1920 in Mitchell. I'm trying to trace the story and the object. Has anyone ever heard of it? Many thanks, Chris From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Mon Jun 29 07:53:25 2009 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:53:25 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay pain in the $%$$ In-Reply-To: <141955.19723.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <141955.19723.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4967AF66@gamma.ssl.atw> >>Anyone else here had problems with me shipping? eBay is getting worse, and the world is officially going madder by the day! I for one have never forgotten the time I bought a small Allende from you Mike, you where flying out to Germany around the same time, and you actually bought the item in your suitcase and shipped it to me from germany to save me the extra fees and delivery time! - Now you don't get a better service that that EVER! Best, Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Farmer Sent: 28 June 2009 20:31 To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay pain in the $%$$ I guess this guy is going nuts all over the internet, on that worthless Skyrockcafe website and to the IMCA. Since I am not a member, that should be fun. Funny, I have thousands of positive feedbacks and now 2 negatives! I guess that proves how badly I treat my buyers. So, in order to prevent these problems, now my Ebay shipping cost to the buyers will increase to $3.00 for any item, this will allow me to print shipping confirmation for every US package. Too bad this kind of scam has to hit us all, as I have always prided myelf with rapid service, usually shipped same day paid, and lowest ebay shipping costs around, that gets me chargebacks as you must provide shipping tracking even for $1.00 item, kind of lame since that would cost around $20.00 for EXPRESS UPS OR FEDEX Anyone else here had problems with me shipping? Do I steal your items? No, don?t think so. Sellers, be warned these people are ready to hit you for every nickel, paypal refunds their money instantly, and sellers cant even leave negative feedback to tell who bad buyers are anymore, it is a wonder why we use ebay at all. Michael Farmer --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > From: Michael Farmer > Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay pain in the $%$$ > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 10:56 AM > > Does anyone know this person? > Ebay name: > > graftonwisconsin > > Beware, a total waste of time. He won a whopping $1.50 item > from me, it was shipped two weeks ago, apparently he emailed > me an ebay question, waited one day and started filing > complaints and pay-pal charge-backs, now a negative > feedback. All this because I am traveling and could not > answer his question in a matter of hours.? I have > hundreds of Brenham crystals, and would gladly send > replacement if given more than an hour or two to respond! > I would recommend blocking him unless you want the same > headaches for this kind of chump-change buyer. > Michael Farmer > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Mon Jun 29 08:16:18 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:16:18 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay pain in the $%$$ In-Reply-To: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4967AF66@gamma.ssl.atw> References: <141955.19723.qm@web110605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C4967AF66@gamma.ssl.atw> Message-ID: <9E064716-ACA9-43A4-ADF3-6E5AFFE563B0@comcast.net> I hand delivered many pieces this year in both France and Germany. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On Jun 29, 2009, at 1:53 PM, "Mark Ford" wrote: >>> Anyone else here had problems with me shipping? > > > eBay is getting worse, and the world is officially going madder by > the day! > > I for one have never forgotten the time I bought a small Allende > from you Mike, you where flying out to Germany around the same time, > and you actually bought the item in your suitcase and shipped it to > me from germany to save me the extra fees and delivery time! - Now > you don't get a better service that that EVER! > > > Best, > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > ] On Behalf Of Michael Farmer > Sent: 28 June 2009 20:31 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay pain in the $%$$ > > > I guess this guy is going nuts all over the internet, on that > worthless Skyrockcafe website and to the IMCA. Since I am not a > member, that should be fun. > Funny, I have thousands of positive feedbacks and now 2 negatives! I > guess that proves how badly I treat my buyers. > So, in order to prevent these problems, now my Ebay shipping cost to > the buyers will increase to $3.00 for any item, this will allow me > to print shipping confirmation for every US package. Too bad this > kind of scam has to hit us all, as I have always prided myelf with > rapid service, usually shipped same day paid, and lowest ebay > shipping costs around, that gets me chargebacks as you must provide > shipping tracking even for $1.00 item, kind of lame since that would > cost around $20.00 for EXPRESS UPS OR FEDEX > > Anyone else here had problems with me shipping? Do I steal your items? > No, don?t think so. > Sellers, be warned these people are ready to hit you for every > nickel, paypal refunds their money instantly, and sellers cant even > leave negative feedback to tell who bad buyers are anymore, it is a > wonder why we use ebay at all. > Michael Farmer > > > --- On Sun, 6/28/09, Michael Farmer wrote: > >> From: Michael Farmer >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay pain in the $%$$ >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 10:56 AM >> >> Does anyone know this person? >> Ebay name: >> >> graftonwisconsin >> >> Beware, a total waste of time. He won a whopping $1.50 item >> from me, it was shipped two weeks ago, apparently he emailed >> me an ebay question, waited one day and started filing >> complaints and pay-pal charge-backs, now a negative >> feedback. All this because I am traveling and could not >> answer his question in a matter of hours. I have >> hundreds of Brenham crystals, and would gladly send >> replacement if given more than an hour or two to respond! >> I would recommend blocking him unless you want the same >> headaches for this kind of chump-change buyer. >> Michael Farmer >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If > you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com > . You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any > purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. > > GENERAL STATEMENT: > > Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and > communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective > operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. > > Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 > 0DP. Company No 1800317 > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From drtanuki at yahoo.com Mon Jun 29 10:27:30 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:27:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska 101 years after the event Message-ID: <901578.15192.qm@web53101.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List Members: I have posted on the Latest Worldwide Meteor/Meteorite News Website about the 101st birthday of Tunguska with articles and videos. Please take a look. Thank you. Dirk Ross...Tokyo http://www.lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Mon Jun 29 13:26:35 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - 112 Great Items, Serious Bargains! Message-ID: <993830.2128.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, I have 112 great auctions due to end this evening, tomorrow and the following day so take a look if you are interested in some rarities and bargains. Many items are still at just 99 cents! I have been digging through my safes so you will see some fairly uncommon material for sale -- Be sure to check them out! All of these items are definitely worth a look. Auctions Can Be Found At This link: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck. Best Regards, ------------------------------------ Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 raremeteorites at yahoo.com From pshugar at clearwire.net Mon Jun 29 14:14:38 2009 From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:14:38 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteroite Wanted Message-ID: <51BD680D4B284F459674668C3BF3416A@laptop> Does anyone have a small black crusted meteorite that is not very expensive with a fusion crust compairable to the crust found on the West-Ash Creek, Tx stones? I am putting togeather a display of different fusion crust colors for a presentation and I would like to get one. Pete IMCA 1733 From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 29 15:42:59 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Dawn Journal - June 28, 2009 Message-ID: <200906291942.n5TJgx56019242@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal_6_28_09.asp Dawn Journal Dr. Marc Rayman June 28, 2009 Dear Dawnterested Readers, Having completed the longest planned coasting period of its entire mission, Dawn is now back to its familiar routine. On June 8, the ion propulsion system was called back into action to propel the probe to its rendezvous with asteroid Vesta. The spacecraft began its 7-month coast period on October 31, 2008. Since then, it had used its ion thrusters for a measurement of the solar array power, a small adjustment in its course to Mars (the gravitational effect of which provided a boost to its distant destination), and tests of the software remotely installed on the main computer in April. The accumulated thrusting during all of those activities added only about 10 hours to the mission's log of 282 days when coasting commenced. Now that the ship has resumed its powered flight, the spacecraft devotes most of its time to thrusting. With the utmost patience, like an artist perfecting each delicate detail in a grand masterpiece, Dawn gradually reshapes its orbit around the Sun. A full day of thrusting is enough only to change its speed by a modest 7 meters/second (less than 16 miles/hour). Dawn thrusts all but about 6 to 8 hours per week, providing only a brief opportunity to turn away from the direction it needs to aim its ion thruster in order to point its main antenna at Earth. That weekly radio communications session affords the robotic explorer its sole contact with mission controllers. While it is thrusting, Dawn is programmed to broadcast signals from one of its small, auxiliary antennas, spreading its radio signal in a wide swath that encompasses distant Earth. Usually one of the exquisitely sensitive receivers of NASA's Deep Space Network will listen in on the spacecraft for a few hours halfway through the week, capturing the extraordinarily faint transmission showing the spacecraft is sailing smoothly. Spending so much time thrusting is possible thanks to the extremely frugal use of xenon propellant. The ion thruster expels only about 0.26 kilograms (10 ounces) in a day. So while Dawn would need nearly 4 days to accelerate from 0 to 60 miles/hour, it would consume little more than 1 kilogram (about 2.3 pounds) of its supply of xenon during that time. As the probe climbs away from the Sun to reach the cold depths of the asteroid belt, the multiyear thrust profile is designed to make its solar orbit match that of Vesta. The current flight plan has it arriving at the massive protoplanet in September 2011, requiring it to thrust for more than 700 days along the way, the significant majority of the time. Prior to resuming thrust, the spacecraft carried out a routine check of one its scientific instruments. All of the instruments designed to uncloak the secrets Vesta and Ceres hold about the dawn of the solar system spend most of the time during the interplanetary cruise switched off, waiting for their opportunities to go to work in orbit. Each instrument is powered on occasionally to verify its health. On May 27, the visible and infrared mapping spectrometer (VIR) was activated. On this occasion, VIR repeated the routines it first executed in space in October 2007. All of its mechanisms were exercised, and they operated smoothly. Instead of aiming at distant celestial targets, its visible and infrared detectors measured emissions from built-in lamps. VIR passed the 4-hour test with flying colors (some of which are outside the range of human vision). The VIR operation was one of many assignments for the coast period, most of which have been described in logs since November 2008. With all activities completed successfully, the spacecraft set about thrusting right on schedule. On June 8, executing instructions already stored in its main computer, Dawn rotated to point thruster #1 in the required direction. It powered on the ion beam shortly after 11:59 am PDT. Any readers who happened to be in the vicinity during their own deep-space excursions would immediately have recognized the familiar scene: Dawn majestically perched once again atop a blue-green pillar of xenon ions, as its ambitious journey of exploration continues. Dawn is 291 million kilometers (181 million miles) from Earth, or 775 times as far as the moon and 1.91 times as far as the Sun. Radio signals, traveling at the universal limit of the speed of light, take 32 minutes to make the round trip. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon Jun 29 15:36:37 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:36:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Shuttle Shows 1908 Tunguka Explosion Was Caused by Comet Message-ID: <200906291936.n5TJabgb017841@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/June09/TunguskaComet.html A mystery solved: Space shuttle shows 1908 Tunguska explosion was caused by comet By Anne Ju Cornell Chronicle June 24, 2009 The mysterious 1908 Tunguska explosion that leveled 830 square miles of Siberian forest was almost certainly caused by a comet entering Earth's atmosphere, says new Cornell research. The conclusion is supported by an unlikely source: the exhaust plume from the NASA space shuttle launched a century later. The research, accepted for publication (June 24) by the journal Geophysical Research Letters, published by the American Geophysical Union, connects the two events by what followed each about a day later: brilliant, night-visible clouds, or noctilucent clouds, that are made up of ice particles and only form at very high altitudes and in extremely cold temperatures. "It's almost like putting together a 100-year-old murder mystery," said Michael Kelley, the James A. Friend Family Distinguished Professor of Engineering at Cornell, who led the research team. "The evidence is pretty strong that the Earth was hit by a comet in 1908." Previous speculation had ranged from comets to meteors to black holes. The researchers contend that the massive amount of water vapor spewed into the atmosphere by the comet's icy nucleus was caught up in swirling eddies with tremendous energy by a process called two-dimensional turbulence, which explains why the noctilucent clouds formed a day later many thousands of miles away. Noctilucent clouds are the Earth's highest clouds, forming naturally in the mesosphere at about 55 miles over the polar regions during the summer months when the mesosphere is around minus 180 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 117 degrees Celsius). The space shuttle exhaust plume, the researchers say, resembled the water vapor from the comet. A single space shuttle flight injects 300 metric tons of water vapor into the Earth's thermosphere, and the water particles have been found to travel to the Arctic and Antarctic regions, where they form the clouds after settling into the mesosphere. The thermosphere is the layer of the atmosphere above the mesosphere. Kelley and collaborators saw the noctilucent cloud phenomenon days after the space shuttle Endeavour (STS-118) launched on Aug. 8, 2007. Similar cloud formations had been observed following launches in 1997 and 2003. Following the 1908 explosion, known as the Tunguska Event, the night skies shone brightly for several days across Europe, particularly Great Britain -- more than 3,000 miles away. Kelley said he became intrigued by the historical eyewitness accounts of the aftermath, and concluded that the bright skies must have been the result of noctilucent clouds. The comet would have started to break up at about the same altitude as the release of the exhaust plume from the space shuttle following launch. In both cases, water vapor was injected into the atmosphere. The scientists have attempted to answer how this water vapor traveled so far without scattering and diffusing, as conventional physics would predict. "There is a mean transport of this material for tens of thousands of kilometers in a very short time, and there is no model that predicts that," Kelley said. "It's totally new and unexpected physics." This "new" physics, the researchers contend, is tied up in counter-rotating eddies with extreme energy. Once the water vapor got caught up in these eddies, the water traveled very quickly -- close to 300 feet per second. Scientists have long tried to study the wind structure in these upper regions of the atmosphere, which is difficult to do by such traditional means as sounding rockets, balloon launches and satellites, explained Charles Seyler, Cornell professor of electrical engineering and paper co-author. "Our observations show that current understanding of the mesosphere-lower thermosphere region is quite poor," Seyler said. The paper is also co-authored by Clemson University physicist Miguel Larsen, Ph.D. '79, a former student of Kelley. The work performed at Cornell was funded by the Atmospheric Science Section of the National Science Foundation. On July 1, Kelley will give a lecture, "Two-dimensional Turbulence, Space Shuttle Plume Transport in the Thermosphere, and a Possible Relation to the Great Siberian Impact Event," at a plenary session of the annual meeting of Coupling, Energetics and Dynamics of Atmospheric Regions in Santa Fe, N.M. The paper is available at: http://www.agu.org/journals/gl/papersinpress.shtml. ## From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Mon Jun 29 15:59:37 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:59:37 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day Message-ID: Hi, I want to thank everyone that has contributed to RFSPOD!! Many of you have sent in some spectacular fotos the past few days! Keep 'em coming and lets make sure next month's calendar gets full! Thank you! __________________________ Michael D. Johnson http://www.spacerocksinc.com http://www.rocksfromspace.org http://www.sikhote-alin.org **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823281x1201398699/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) From mlblood at cox.net Mon Jun 29 17:37:13 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:37:13 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] test In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is a test From mlblood at cox.net Mon Jun 29 17:50:03 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:50:03 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Warning re HTML In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all, I was blocked from sending to the list for a day and a half, but was "rescued" by my friend, Paul Harris (to whom I owe much) When he had me merely change my email setting from "HTML" To "Plain text." Why I had never had this problem before is one of those Hookie-zookie computer magical thingies. Anyway, glad to be back and thanks, again, to Paul Best wishes, Michael From magbish3 at lowcountry.com Mon Jun 29 18:57:14 2009 From: magbish3 at lowcountry.com (Mal Bishop) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:57:14 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] *** AD *** Large, Gorgeous CAMPO with coin and case Message-ID: <20090629225710.D4283290844@smtp1.av-mx.com> To anyone interested, I've been debating whether to let my 10.8kg CAMPO go or not, but finally decided I need the funds more right now than this wonderful piece. It is a very exquisite example of Campo -- very, very stable with many regmaglypts -- and sculpted by nature to resemble a boat sail of sorts. I am willing to sell it along with a Campo commemorative coin/medallion, and a handsome wood/acrylic base stand with acrylic cover for $1800 (or best offer within reason) plus whatever shipping may be. I'll be happy to send photos to anyone SERIOUSLY interested in talking deal. I can easily say this is one of my most favorite irons I have ever had in my collection since I started collecting in 1994!!! Believe me, whoever is the potential purchaser of this piece will be more than highly satisfied and I think very proud to call it their own as they proudly put it up for display ..Campo does not get much better than this piece will prove!!! Best, Mal From pgspears at cox.net Mon Jun 29 19:41:02 2009 From: pgspears at cox.net (Paul G. Spears) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:41:02 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Starter specimen set Message-ID: <006501c9f913$0ffe2ae0$2ffa80a0$@net> Hi, all: The photos of the day make it clear that there are many shapes, substances, colors, and sizes of meteorites, and the beauty that can be seen in some of the cuts is astounding. Constrained by budget limitations, I cannot obtain specimen samples of a great many meteorites at once. Nevertheless, I intend to begin actively searching within a few weeks and it seems necessary to get to know at the least what many meteorites look like! I made sure I knew what a deer looked like before I went deer hunting, and I certainly made sure I knew what a dear looked like before I sought my bride of 50 years, 5 months, and 11 days. The best find I ever made! (?) I feel a set consisting of one each of small iron, chrondite, and stone meteorites might be a good investment on my part. Would anyone care to offer such a set (or other items that are more representative) for sale, or recommend a better approach to getting to know the sight and feel of meteorites? At this early point in my new avocation, I must bypass the exotic pieces and focus on typical examples with reasonable size and cost. Thank you for your suggestions and proposals, off list, at pgspears at cox.net. Best regards, Paul S. From grf2 at verizon.net Mon Jun 29 22:23:34 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:23:34 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] new email address Message-ID: <5B801F05C53148848A5C4E6853266A39@ASUS> grf2 at comcast.net Jerry Flaherty From jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk Tue Jun 30 05:18:19 2009 From: jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk (jim_brady611 at o2.co.uk) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:18:19 +0100 (BST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Sources for cutting blades? Message-ID: <11231656.1591246353499376.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> Listees , please, I know somewhere out there someone has good info that myself and others would be very grateful for.Buehler U.K. are asking for the equivalent of $357 for a wafering CBN blade.Surely someone can help me out here with some alternate sources? Jim sent from my lamborghini From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Tue Jun 30 09:01:24 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:01:24 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - June 30, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/June_30_2009.html __________________________ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377075x1201454393/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 09:32:32 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:32:32 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake Message-ID: http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=28594 Space rock yields answers about origins of life on Earth PRESS RELEASE Date Released: Saturday, June 27, 2009 Source: University of British Columbia Edmonton-Formic acid, a compound implicated in the origins of life, has been found at record levels on a meteorite that fell onto a frozen Canadian lake in 2000. Chris Herd, a professor in the University of Alberta's Department of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences and curator of the university's meteorite collection, presented his research findings at the 2009 American Geophysical Union joint assembly in Toronto at the end of May. Herd conducted his analysis on the Tagish Lake Meteorite, which he has described as being possibly the "most important rock that's ever been found anywhere on the Earth." The U of A scientist found levels of formic acid that were four times higher than had previously been recorded on a meteorite. Formic acid is one of a group of compounds dubbed "organics" because they are rich in carbon. This compound is also commonly associated with ants and bees because of its presence in their venom. Herd said the delivery of formic acid and other carboxylic acids to the early Earth by meteorites like the one that fell on Tagish Lake in northern British Columbia would have provided the components needed for life, especially the fatty acids that are an important part of cell walls. He said the ultimate source of formic acid may be interstellar space as this and related compounds have been observed astronomically in cold, molecular clouds as well as in comets. The Tagish Lake meteorite fell on the frozen surface of a northern B.C. lake in the middle of January and was collected without being touched by human hands. It represents the most pristine sample of minerals from outer space. Samples of the meteorite, totalling 850 grams, were collected from Tagish Lake and purchased in 2006 by a research consortium that included the University of Alberta. "We are lucky that the meteorite was untouched by humans hands, avoiding contamination by organic compounds that we have on our fingers," said Herd. "This meteorite can tell us new information about the birth and evolution of our solar system, and the very fact that it's been kept frozen, essentially pristine, uncontaminated by human hands, gives us an unprecedented opportunity to explore new scientific avenues that were heretofore impossible. "We can do things with this meteorite that nobody's ever done before." -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From cdtucson at cox.net Tue Jun 30 13:55:39 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:55:39 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD. Nasa stuff Message-ID: <20090630135539.2UIX2.122883.imail@fed1rmwml39> List, I have a bunch of real stuff from NASA on eBay ending later today. Please have a look. Thanks Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 14:06:35 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:06:35 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards Message-ID: Hi Listees and Stonecutters! After using my saw on several occasions now, I wanted to share a recent experience and ask a related question. While cutting a small unclassified NWA stone about the size of a walnut, my stepson showed up and started watching. It made him extremely nervous watching me handhold the small stone while I cut it. Apparently seeing my unprotected fingers a half-inch away from a spinning diamond blade was too much to bear. He is absolutely convinced I am going to cut a finger off. (Shows how much confidence he has in me!) LOL He asked why I don't use some kind of jig or holder that will hold the stone for me. I showed him my rock vise, which is made for use with this particular saw. But the vise is only good for larger stones, or elongated stones. It's not much good for holding very small acorn-sized or walnut-sized stones. So, I bravely go where no fingers should go. He asked what I would do if I cut off my finger, and I nonchalantly said I would drive myself to the nearest emergency room, wait my turn, get it sewed back on, and then go home with a big bandaged hand and type a one-handed email to the list about the episode. ;) So, my question is - how do you cut very small stones on a 6" lapidary saw? Do you hand hold them? Do you use some kind of jig? And how many digits do you still have on your hands? Honestly, I am not terribly worried about it. I am experienced with power tools and saws, so I'm not being reckless. But if there is something I can do to make my wife and family feel better about it, I'd do it. Best regards, 10-Fingered Mike (for now) -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From cdtucson at cox.net Tue Jun 30 14:27:10 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:27:10 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: AD. Nasa stuff Message-ID: <20090630142710.7D32T.123477.imail@fed1rmwml39> Sorry, I forgot the link. http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/meteoritemax_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZ Carl > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:55:39 -0700 > From: > To: meteoritelist > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD. Nasa stuff > > List, > I have a bunch of real stuff from NASA on eBay ending later today. Please have a look. Thanks > > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5829 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mail at mhmeteorites.com Tue Jun 30 14:20:46 2009 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:20:46 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards Message-ID: <1392813987-1246386058-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2113996220-@bxe1050.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I hand hold on occasion, but will also use a glue gun and glue it to a plastic block. That way it can be easily fit into the vise. The glue can be easily removed by hand or a hair dryer. I have also built custom vises to hold odd samples. Matt ------Original Message------ From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards Sent: Jun 30, 2009 12:06 PM Hi Listees and Stonecutters! After using my saw on several occasions now, I wanted to share a recent experience and ask a related question. While cutting a small unclassified NWA stone about the size of a walnut, my stepson showed up and started watching. It made him extremely nervous watching me handhold the small stone while I cut it. Apparently seeing my unprotected fingers a half-inch away from a spinning diamond blade was too much to bear. He is absolutely convinced I am going to cut a finger off. (Shows how much confidence he has in me!) LOL He asked why I don't use some kind of jig or holder that will hold the stone for me. I showed him my rock vise, which is made for use with this particular saw. But the vise is only good for larger stones, or elongated stones. It's not much good for holding very small acorn-sized or walnut-sized stones. So, I bravely go where no fingers should go. He asked what I would do if I cut off my finger, and I nonchalantly said I would drive myself to the nearest emergency room, wait my turn, get it sewed back on, and then go home with a big bandaged hand and type a one-handed email to the list about the episode. ;) So, my question is - how do you cut very small stones on a 6" lapidary saw? Do you hand hold them? Do you use some kind of jig? And how many digits do you still have on your hands? Honestly, I am not terribly worried about it. I am experienced with power tools and saws, so I'm not being reckless. But if there is something I can do to make my wife and family feel better about it, I'd do it. Best regards, 10-Fingered Mike (for now) -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA From eric at meteoritesusa.com Tue Jun 30 15:30:07 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:30:07 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Wholesale To Dealers Message-ID: <4A4A67BF.9020701@meteoritesusa.com> Hi List, Dealers, I sent an email for a sale on Sunday, but this is not really an ad so much as an inquiry request for my wholesale list pricing. I sell to many dealers. If you've been watching you've noticed a major increase in the quality of the material I have been carrying over the last year. Dealers have contacted me in the past asking if I would wholesale to them. I have done some wholesale in the past, but at a limited level. I am changing this as of today. I'm offering dealers an opportunity to purchase high quality unclassified meteorites (some prepped and polished pieces) at wholesale pricing to move. This is a limited offer for now depending on the response level. If you're a collector there are minimums that must be met. This is only to dealers, for high quality whole, sliced, prepped and/or rare unclassified material at wholesale. Serious wholesale inquiries only. Contact me off-list by phone at 904-236-5394 or Email... -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Tue Jun 30 14:40:04 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:40:04 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards Message-ID: Hi Mike, Expensive material is held in place with various configurations. It has been my experience however, cheap unclassified meteorites are (particularly the small ones) best held in hand. I have a friend who cut off three fingers and the end of his thumb using a table saw with gloves on. That's a bad idea! You would have to be stoned to cut your finger off with a diamond blade. They don't grab and draw in your finger like a rip saw does. I have run my fingers into the saw many times while cutting small NWA's and no losses of digits. I do swear a lot and it will bleed. Tom In a message dated 6/30/2009 12:12:35 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, meteoritemike at gmail.com writes: Hi Listees and Stonecutters! After using my saw on several occasions now, I wanted to share a recent experience and ask a related question. While cutting a small unclassified NWA stone about the size of a walnut, my stepson showed up and started watching. It made him extremely nervous watching me handhold the small stone while I cut it. Apparently seeing my unprotected fingers a half-inch away from a spinning diamond blade was too much to bear. He is absolutely convinced I am going to cut a finger off. (Shows how much confidence he has in me!) LOL He asked why I don't use some kind of jig or holder that will hold the stone for me. I showed him my rock vise, which is made for use with this particular saw. But the vise is only good for larger stones, or elongated stones. It's not much good for holding very small acorn-sized or walnut-sized stones. So, I bravely go where no fingers should go. He asked what I would do if I cut off my finger, and I nonchalantly said I would drive myself to the nearest emergency room, wait my turn, get it sewed back on, and then go home with a big bandaged hand and type a one-handed email to the list about the episode. ;) So, my question is - how do you cut very small stones on a 6" lapidary saw? Do you hand hold them? Do you use some kind of jig? And how many digits do you still have on your hands? Honestly, I am not terribly worried about it. I am experienced with power tools and saws, so I'm not being reckless. But if there is something I can do to make my wife and family feel better about it, I'd do it. Best regards, 10-Fingered Mike (for now) -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377075x1201454393/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) From grf2 at verizon.net Tue Jun 30 15:54:52 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:54:52 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake References: Message-ID: Formic acid----Ants right?????? -------------------------------------------------- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:32 AM To: "Meteorite List" Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake > http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=28594 > > > Space rock yields answers about origins of life on Earth > > PRESS RELEASE > Date Released: Saturday, June 27, 2009 > Source: University of British Columbia > > Edmonton-Formic acid, a compound implicated in the origins of life, > has been found at record levels on a meteorite that fell onto a frozen > Canadian lake in 2000. > > Chris Herd, a professor in the University of Alberta's Department of > Earth and Atmospheric Sciences and curator of the university's > meteorite collection, presented his research findings at the 2009 > American Geophysical Union joint assembly in Toronto at the end of > May. > > Herd conducted his analysis on the Tagish Lake Meteorite, which he has > described as being possibly the "most important rock that's ever been > found anywhere on the Earth." > The U of A scientist found levels of formic acid that were four times > higher than had previously been recorded on a meteorite. Formic acid > is one of a group of compounds dubbed "organics" because they are rich > in carbon. This compound is also commonly associated with ants and > bees because of its presence in their venom. > > Herd said the delivery of formic acid and other carboxylic acids to > the early Earth by meteorites like the one that fell on Tagish Lake in > northern British Columbia would have provided the components needed > for life, especially the fatty acids that are an important part of > cell walls. > > He said the ultimate source of formic acid may be interstellar space > as this and related compounds have been observed astronomically in > cold, molecular clouds as well as in comets. > > The Tagish Lake meteorite fell on the frozen surface of a northern > B.C. lake in the middle of January and was collected without being > touched by human hands. It represents the most pristine sample of > minerals from outer space. Samples of the meteorite, totalling 850 > grams, were collected from Tagish Lake and purchased in 2006 by a > research consortium that included the University of Alberta. > > "We are lucky that the meteorite was untouched by humans hands, > avoiding contamination by organic compounds that we have on our > fingers," said Herd. "This meteorite can tell us new information about > the birth and evolution of our solar system, and the very fact that > it's been kept frozen, essentially pristine, uncontaminated by human > hands, gives us an unprecedented opportunity to explore new scientific > avenues that were heretofore impossible. > > "We can do things with this meteorite that nobody's ever done before." > > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jun 30 15:46:59 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 30 Jun 2009 19:46:59 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake Message-ID: > Formic acid----Ants right?????? .. and bees, you'll feel it when you get stung :-) Chemical formula: HCOOH Cheers, Bernd From grf2 at verizon.net Tue Jun 30 16:03:14 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:03:14 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake References: Message-ID: <248D2FA94DB44E398E5662F3EF828CED@ASUS> YIEEEEEEEEEEE!! -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:46 PM To: Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake >> Formic acid----Ants right?????? > > .. and bees, you'll feel it when you get stung :-) > > Chemical formula: HCOOH > > Cheers, > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From fujmon at mac.com Tue Jun 30 16:26:46 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:26:46 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Seymchan, CK4 blowout w/ 10% off Message-ID: <0E19C1F7-1F02-44FD-9417-CB1876AF8A69@mac.com> Aloha, 10% off every meteorite & impactite here: $3/g for beautifully cut and polished Seymchan slices! $11/g for the freshest CK4 slice! Much more like: NWA 4657 CK4 29.63g crusted slice $350 (one of the freshest CK carbonaceous) Seymchan Pal 33.6g slice $100 (you're not going to find a better price for this quality) Seymchan Pal 76g slice $228 NWA 1817 Mes 120g slice $350 (fat slab could be further sliced) NWA 4576 Mes 13g endcut $50 Wadi Melene (Sah 02500) L3.8 12.3g endcut $50 Zunhua 21g internal fragment *inquire* NWA 5611 Euc 18.4g crusted quarter endcut $184 Indochinite Tektite 106.6g $20 Libyan Desert Glass 14.86g $30 Just send me an email or call (808) 640-9161 for more information or to order. I can accept payment by check, money order or Paypal. Mahalo for looking ... going surfin' now! http://astroday.net/meteorites4sale.html Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From gmhupe at htn.net Tue Jun 30 16:39:19 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:39:19 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "3-Layer Cake" IMB, "Ocate" and eBay Auctions - AD Message-ID: Dear List Members, Ending tomorrow on eBay (Wednesday, July 1st), are the LAST six pieces of NWA 5407, the incredible IMB "3-Layer Cake~A Visual Treat" and the LAST four pieces of the new American Iron from New Mexico, "Ocate". I added "Buy it Now" to all of these, so if you are interested, this may be the time to snag one of these before they are completely gone! In addition to these, I also have a huge selection of Lunar's, Martian's and all of the other rarities I have, all started at just 99 cents. These are a little smaller than last week's so they will be more affordable to those whose want smaller, nice representative samples for their collections. Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Best regards, and "Thank You" for looking and/or bidding! Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From majbaermann at web.de Tue Jun 30 16:36:39 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:36:39 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake References: <248D2FA94DB44E398E5662F3EF828CED@ASUS> Message-ID: Hardly surprising that all is full of formic acid out there ... They're simply there by their own ... Trillions of them ... Anywhere ... http://lab.netculture.at/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/ameise-0080kopf.jpg Acidified yours, Matthias B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Flaherty" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake > YIEEEEEEEEEEE!! > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:46 PM > To: > Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake > >>> Formic acid----Ants right?????? >> >> .. and bees, you'll feel it when you get stung :-) >> >> Chemical formula: HCOOH >> >> Cheers, >> >> Bernd >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 17:11:01 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:11:01 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinions on an oddball meteorite I cut open Message-ID: Hi Listees! I'd like some opinions on a meteorite I cut open yesterday. It's an oddball I've had in my box of NWA for some time - awaiting a date with the saw. It exhibits a very low magnetism and it has a grey matrix almost entirely devoid of chondrules - although there does appear to be some remnant chondrule structures. I'm hoping it might be some kind of achondrite, but the magnetism mostly rules that out. Is it some uncommon type like an L7? Or is it just something common that I have not seen before? The exterior has a wind polished desert varnish on it and there doesn't appear to be any fusion crust to speak of - although there are a few scattered tiny patches of black on it. The stone weighs 16 grams. I only made 2 cuts - I cut one corner off to expose the matrix (endcut) and I made one thin slice. The rest of the stone is intact. Here are some photo links - http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/Anomalous/new-odd-cut/odd-new-1.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/Anomalous/new-odd-cut/odd-new-2.jpg http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/Anomalous/new-odd-cut/odd-new-3.jpg Any opinions are welcomed. Best regards, MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From lintonius at earthlink.net Tue Jun 30 17:07:56 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:07:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Muonionalusta whole slice and large Campo del Cielo References: Message-ID: <350F87B80D9040DCA432B158B7E0753C@D190TH71> Greetings listees. I've got a couple E-Bay listings ending in 24 hours... A 27 pound Campo del Cielo, with nice shape and regmaglypts... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=230351679920 And a beautiful, etched, 825g whole slice of Muonionalusta with a nice big inclusion... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=230351684605 Any offers from list members will be given preferential consideration. Linton From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue Jun 30 17:32:45 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 30 Jun 2009 21:32:45 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinions on an oddball meteorite I cut open Message-ID: Hello Mike and List, http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/ http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/ http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/ Might indeed be something like the Hup?s' NWA 969 ... the one nicknamed "Bottled Water" because silicate minerals were identified that "contained trains of fluid inclusions". If so, it's an LL6/7! Hope that helps (a little bit), Bernd P.S.: The TKW of NWA 969 is 463 gr but there is a typo in the online Met.Bull. where the TKW is given as 44 grams. But the "breakdown" lists the correct weight! From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue Jun 30 18:04:11 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:04:11 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake References: <248D2FA94DB44E398E5662F3EF828CED@ASUS> Message-ID: For all the ant "lovers," I recommend the 1954 movie "THEM!" starring the venerable British actor Edmond Gwenn (b. 1877, first movie 1916) with early-career performances by James Whitmore, James Arness, Fess Parker and a host of character actors. And of course, hordes of very, very large ants. Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthias B?rmann" To: "Jerry Flaherty" ; ; Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:36 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake > Hardly surprising that all is full of formic acid out there ... > They're simply there by their own ... Trillions of them ... Anywhere > ... > > http://lab.netculture.at/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/ameise-0080kopf.jpg > > Acidified yours, > > Matthias B. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jerry Flaherty" > To: ; > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:03 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish > Lake > > >> YIEEEEEEEEEEE!! >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:46 PM >> To: >> Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake >> >>>> Formic acid----Ants right?????? >>> >>> .. and bees, you'll feel it when you get stung :-) >>> >>> Chemical formula: HCOOH >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Bernd >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From damoclid at yahoo.com Tue Jun 30 18:23:02 2009 From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:23:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake Message-ID: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Non-ant scientific papers http://tinyurl.com/kotu25 -- Richard Kowalski http://fullmoonphotography.net IMCA #1081 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 18:57:42 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:57:42 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake In-Reply-To: References: <248D2FA94DB44E398E5662F3EF828CED@ASUS> Message-ID: Them! had a stellar performance by a young DeForest Kelley. I don't think it was credited under that name though. On 6/30/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > For all the ant "lovers," I recommend the 1954 > movie "THEM!" starring the venerable British > actor Edmond Gwenn (b. 1877, first movie 1916) > with early-career performances by James Whitmore, > James Arness, Fess Parker and a host of character > actors. > > And of course, hordes of very, very large ants. > > > Sterling K. Webb > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matthias B?rmann" > To: "Jerry Flaherty" ; ; > > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:36 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake > > >> Hardly surprising that all is full of formic acid out there ... >> They're simply there by their own ... Trillions of them ... Anywhere >> ... >> >> http://lab.netculture.at/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/ameise-0080kopf.jpg >> >> Acidified yours, >> >> Matthias B. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jerry Flaherty" >> To: ; >> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish >> Lake >> >> >>> YIEEEEEEEEEEE!! >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:46 PM >>> To: >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake >>> >>>>> Formic acid----Ants right?????? >>>> >>>> .. and bees, you'll feel it when you get stung :-) >>>> >>>> Chemical formula: HCOOH >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Bernd >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 30 19:18:20 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards Message-ID: <569631.40817.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Last time I cut with a diamond blade it only would cut the nail and not the skin--wanna give it a try and see if thinner blades can cut skin? Mike they make a slab holder/jig which comes in few sizes that lets you cut down below 10mm or so. Once you clamp the stone in the jig you clamp it in your saw vice. $20-30 on ebay. Elton --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > Hi Listees and Stonecutters! > > After using my saw on several occasions now, I wanted to > share a > recent experience and ask a related question. > > While cutting a small unclassified NWA stone about the size > of a > walnut, my stepson showed up and started > watching.???It made him > extremely nervous watching me handhold the small stone > while I cut it. > Apparently seeing my unprotected fingers a half-inch away > from a > spinning diamond blade was too much to bear.? He is > absolutely > convinced I am going to cut a finger off.? (Shows how > much confidence > he has in me!) LOL > > He asked why I don't use some kind of jig or holder that > will hold the > stone for me.? I showed him my rock vise, which is > made for use with > this particular saw.? But the vise is only good for > larger stones, or > elongated stones.? It's not much good for holding very > small > acorn-sized or walnut-sized stones.? So, I bravely go > where no fingers > should go.? He asked what I would do if I cut off my > finger, and I > nonchalantly said I would drive myself to the nearest > emergency room, > wait my turn, get it sewed back on, and then go home with a > big > bandaged hand and type a one-handed email to the list about > the > episode. ;) > > So, my question is - how do you cut very small stones on a > 6" lapidary > saw?? Do you hand hold them?? Do you use some > kind of jig?? And how > many digits do you still have on your hands? > > Honestly, I am not terribly worried about it.? I am > experienced with > power tools and saws, so I'm not being reckless.? But > if there is > something I can do to make my wife and family feel better > about it, > I'd do it. > > Best regards, > > 10-Fingered Mike (for now) > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From grf2 at verizon.net Tue Jun 30 19:40:13 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:40:13 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <79A2B5C8A8D843B7A3740C588F8EBABD@ASUS> Thanks Rich -------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard Kowalski" Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 6:23 PM To: "Meteorite List" Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] High Levels of Formic Acid in Tagish Lake > > Non-ant scientific papers > > http://tinyurl.com/kotu25 > > > -- > Richard Kowalski > http://fullmoonphotography.net > IMCA #1081 > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mikewren at gilanet.com Tue Jun 30 20:29:37 2009 From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:29:37 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: GRIFFITH-There were ONLY 3 like this slice! ONLY ONE FOR SALE! LOOK AT THIS SLICE! Message-ID: Hello, Here is my very LAST Complete Slice. I was not going to sell this one for a few years, but .... There were only 3 specimens of GRIFFITH that had an inclusion this large. The MAIN MASS (Sold), My Slice( I am Keeping), and this one! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200358452040 Worth a Look just to see a cool looking slice! Also, AUCTIONS start tomorrow-MANY SURPRISES starting at 0.99 cents and some super discounted BUY IT NOWS added all week! Stop by and have a look! Happy Summer & Best Wishes Michael Cottingham From tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com Tue Jun 30 20:16:11 2009 From: tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com (Tom Randall (KB2SMS)) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:16:11 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ebay pain in the $%$$ Message-ID: Mike and list, I have bought from Mike in the past with NO issues at all. None what so ever. Happy customer. And I NEVER kiss butt. EVER. In case anyone is curious. Tom --- http://home.roadrunner.com/~kb2sms/ From meteoritekid at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 20:58:14 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:58:14 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinions on an oddball meteorite I cut open In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93aaac890906301758q5697a414o880a9d5f0efef488@mail.gmail.com> Hola, Check out the last picture - there's a white chondrule clearly visible in the upper right/center of the photo. Also note the dark chondrule (large, but fuzzy) at the bottom edge of the slice, a tad to the left of center. I'd go with LL6; it has a few chondrules, and from what I understand, the type seven designation is reserved for primitive achondrites. Of course, it's hard to gauge L vs LL, but you did say that the magnetism was "very low." Regards, Jason On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > Hi Listees! > > I'd like some opinions on a meteorite I cut open yesterday. ?It's an > oddball I've had in my box of NWA for some time - awaiting a date with > the saw. ?It exhibits a very low magnetism and it has a grey matrix > almost entirely devoid of chondrules - although there does appear to > be some remnant chondrule structures. ?I'm hoping it might be some > kind of achondrite, but the magnetism mostly rules that out. ?Is it > some uncommon type like an L7? ?Or is it just something common that I > have not seen before? > > The exterior has a wind polished desert varnish on it and there > doesn't appear to be any fusion crust to speak of - although there are > a few scattered tiny patches of black on it. ?The stone weighs 16 > grams. ?I only made 2 cuts - I cut one corner off to expose the matrix > (endcut) and I made one thin slice. ? The rest of the stone is intact. > > Here are some photo links - > > http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/Anomalous/new-odd-cut/odd-new-1.jpg > > http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/Anomalous/new-odd-cut/odd-new-2.jpg > > http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/Anomalous/new-odd-cut/odd-new-3.jpg > > Any opinions are welcomed. > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoritemike at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 21:52:14 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:52:14 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards In-Reply-To: <002301c9f9eb$9868b700$6401a8c0@DBZC5NB1> References: <569631.40817.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> <002301c9f9eb$9868b700$6401a8c0@DBZC5NB1> Message-ID: Hi Ron and List, I noticed that about the blade sanding it's way through the specimen. The first slices I made were the smoothest and the prettiest. Now, after many cuts, the blade is leaving more noticeable saw marks. The blade I am using is the stock/default blade that came with the saw, so I don't know how good it really is, quality-wise. I have another blade sold specifically to cut meteorites, it's the same thickness but the blade is brown-colored instead of reflective bare metal. It's also a CBN, which comes highly recommended. I wanted to practice with the stock blade before moving on to the CBN. I also have an extremely thin and floppy diamond blade called a laser "dia-cut" which I haven't used yet either. Best regards, MikeG On 6/30/09, R N Hartman wrote: > That because a Diamond blade (but not all!) with the very fine continuous > diamond mesh does not cut, it "sands". It sands its way right through your > tough iron meteorite and if your saw is running smoothly it will give your > slice a high polish as it finishes the cut. If you have some issues with > the straightness of the blade or continuous feed, etc. you may get grooves, > which is a sad problem! > > Ron Hartman > > Disclaimer: Use of this information, I am not responsible for lost fingers, > noses or toes! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mr EMan" > To: "Meteorite List" ; "Galactic Stone > & Ironworks" > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:18 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards > > > > Last time I cut with a diamond blade it only would cut the nail and not the > skin--wanna give it a try and see if thinner blades can cut skin? > > Mike they make a slab holder/jig which comes in few sizes that lets you cut > down below 10mm or so. Once you clamp the stone in the jig you clamp it in > your saw vice. $20-30 on ebay. > > Elton > > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks > wrote: > >> Hi Listees and Stonecutters! >> >> After using my saw on several occasions now, I wanted to >> share a >> recent experience and ask a related question. >> >> While cutting a small unclassified NWA stone about the size >> of a >> walnut, my stepson showed up and started >> watching. It made him >> extremely nervous watching me handhold the small stone >> while I cut it. >> Apparently seeing my unprotected fingers a half-inch away >> from a >> spinning diamond blade was too much to bear. He is >> absolutely >> convinced I am going to cut a finger off. (Shows how >> much confidence >> he has in me!) LOL >> >> He asked why I don't use some kind of jig or holder that >> will hold the >> stone for me. I showed him my rock vise, which is >> made for use with >> this particular saw. But the vise is only good for >> larger stones, or >> elongated stones. It's not much good for holding very >> small >> acorn-sized or walnut-sized stones. So, I bravely go >> where no fingers >> should go. He asked what I would do if I cut off my >> finger, and I >> nonchalantly said I would drive myself to the nearest >> emergency room, >> wait my turn, get it sewed back on, and then go home with a >> big >> bandaged hand and type a one-handed email to the list about >> the >> episode. ;) >> >> So, my question is - how do you cut very small stones on a >> 6" lapidary >> saw? Do you hand hold them? Do you use some >> kind of jig? And how >> many digits do you still have on your hands? >> >> Honestly, I am not terribly worried about it. I am >> experienced with >> power tools and saws, so I'm not being reckless. But >> if there is >> something I can do to make my wife and family feel better >> about it, >> I'd do it. >> >> Best regards, >> >> 10-Fingered Mike (for now) >> >> >> -- >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From rhartman04 at earthlink.net Tue Jun 30 21:31:01 2009 From: rhartman04 at earthlink.net (R N Hartman) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:31:01 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards References: <569631.40817.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002301c9f9eb$9868b700$6401a8c0@DBZC5NB1> That because a Diamond blade (but not all!) with the very fine continuous diamond mesh does not cut, it "sands". It sands its way right through your tough iron meteorite and if your saw is running smoothly it will give your slice a high polish as it finishes the cut. If you have some issues with the straightness of the blade or continuous feed, etc. you may get grooves, which is a sad problem! Ron Hartman Disclaimer: Use of this information, I am not responsible for lost fingers, noses or toes! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: "Meteorite List" ; "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards Last time I cut with a diamond blade it only would cut the nail and not the skin--wanna give it a try and see if thinner blades can cut skin? Mike they make a slab holder/jig which comes in few sizes that lets you cut down below 10mm or so. Once you clamp the stone in the jig you clamp it in your saw vice. $20-30 on ebay. Elton --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > Hi Listees and Stonecutters! > > After using my saw on several occasions now, I wanted to > share a > recent experience and ask a related question. > > While cutting a small unclassified NWA stone about the size > of a > walnut, my stepson showed up and started > watching. It made him > extremely nervous watching me handhold the small stone > while I cut it. > Apparently seeing my unprotected fingers a half-inch away > from a > spinning diamond blade was too much to bear. He is > absolutely > convinced I am going to cut a finger off. (Shows how > much confidence > he has in me!) LOL > > He asked why I don't use some kind of jig or holder that > will hold the > stone for me. I showed him my rock vise, which is > made for use with > this particular saw. But the vise is only good for > larger stones, or > elongated stones. It's not much good for holding very > small > acorn-sized or walnut-sized stones. So, I bravely go > where no fingers > should go. He asked what I would do if I cut off my > finger, and I > nonchalantly said I would drive myself to the nearest > emergency room, > wait my turn, get it sewed back on, and then go home with a > big > bandaged hand and type a one-handed email to the list about > the > episode. ;) > > So, my question is - how do you cut very small stones on a > 6" lapidary > saw? Do you hand hold them? Do you use some > kind of jig? And how > many digits do you still have on your hands? > > Honestly, I am not terribly worried about it. I am > experienced with > power tools and saws, so I'm not being reckless. But > if there is > something I can do to make my wife and family feel better > about it, > I'd do it. > > Best regards, > > 10-Fingered Mike (for now) > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From edeckert at triad.rr.com Tue Jun 30 21:53:24 2009 From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (Ed Deckert) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:53:24 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards References: <569631.40817.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006301c9f9ee$b89eb030$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain> The very thin blades can, and will cut skin if you are not careful. The thicker blades can cut skin too, but you really have to try a lot harder to do so. So watch out for your digits with those really thin blades! Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mr EMan" To: "Meteorite List" ; "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another question for the Saw Wizards Last time I cut with a diamond blade it only would cut the nail and not the skin--wanna give it a try and see if thinner blades can cut skin? Mike they make a slab holder/jig which comes in few sizes that lets you cut down below 10mm or so. Once you clamp the stone in the jig you clamp it in your saw vice. $20-30 on ebay. Elton --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > Hi Listees and Stonecutters! > > After using my saw on several occasions now, I wanted to > share a > recent experience and ask a related question. > > While cutting a small unclassified NWA stone about the size > of a > walnut, my stepson showed up and started > watching. It made him > extremely nervous watching me handhold the small stone > while I cut it. > Apparently seeing my unprotected fingers a half-inch away > from a > spinning diamond blade was too much to bear. He is > absolutely > convinced I am going to cut a finger off. (Shows how > much confidence > he has in me!) LOL > > He asked why I don't use some kind of jig or holder that > will hold the > stone for me. I showed him my rock vise, which is > made for use with > this particular saw. But the vise is only good for > larger stones, or > elongated stones. It's not much good for holding very > small > acorn-sized or walnut-sized stones. So, I bravely go > where no fingers > should go. He asked what I would do if I cut off my > finger, and I > nonchalantly said I would drive myself to the nearest > emergency room, > wait my turn, get it sewed back on, and then go home with a > big > bandaged hand and type a one-handed email to the list about > the > episode. ;) > > So, my question is - how do you cut very small stones on a > 6" lapidary > saw? Do you hand hold them? Do you use some > kind of jig? And how > many digits do you still have on your hands? > > Honestly, I am not terribly worried about it. I am > experienced with > power tools and saws, so I'm not being reckless. But > if there is > something I can do to make my wife and family feel better > about it, > I'd do it. > > Best regards, > > 10-Fingered Mike (for now) > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: 6.12710 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: 6.12720 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ From midwest at meteorman.org Tue Jun 30 22:04:29 2009 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:04:29 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Brahin 180g slice for sale References: <916197.44926.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <46A9C40A9D8C467F8C68808CBF935CB1@den> Hello List, I have a nice slice of Brahin for sale http://www.meteorman.org/Brahin_180g.htm Thanks, Tim Heitz MIDWEST METEORITES - http://www.meteorman.org From eric at meteoritesusa.com Tue Jun 30 22:22:38 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:22:38 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Opinions on an oddball meteorite I cut open In-Reply-To: <93aaac890906301758q5697a414o880a9d5f0efef488@mail.gmail.com> References: <93aaac890906301758q5697a414o880a9d5f0efef488@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4AC86E.7050503@meteoritesusa.com> Hey Mike, Jason, List, The term "very low" when referring to magnetism in a stone meteorite is "very subjective" isn't it? Is there a scale to go by, or industry standard for strength of magnetism? I've had stone material that a super strong and very large neo magnet would barely stick to. Also wouldn't small slices such as this piece and others be hard to determine types due to the small mass. I mean, a small 10 gram stone wouldn't be completely representative of an entire mass if that mass is unknown would it? I've seen and cut some chondrites with dual lithologies but if I cut those stones in half down the separation line of the mineral types, how would you know what type it is? Regards, Eric Jason Utas wrote: > Hola, > Check out the last picture - there's a white chondrule clearly visible > in the upper right/center of the photo. > Also note the dark chondrule (large, but fuzzy) at the bottom edge of > the slice, a tad to the left of center. > I'd go with LL6; it has a few chondrules, and from what I understand, > the type seven designation is reserved for primitive achondrites. Of > course, it's hard to gauge L vs LL, but you did say that the magnetism > was "very low." > Regards, > Jason > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Galactic Stone & > Ironworks wrote: > >> Hi Listees! >> >> I'd like some opinions on a meteorite I cut open yesterday. It's an >> oddball I've had in my box of NWA for some time - awaiting a date with >> the saw. It exhibits a very low magnetism and it has a grey matrix >> almost entirely devoid of chondrules - although there does appear to >> be some remnant chondrule structures. I'm hoping it might be some >> kind of achondrite, but the magnetism mostly rules that out. Is it >> some uncommon type like an L7? Or is it just something common that I >> have not seen before? >> >> The exterior has a wind polished desert varnish on it and there >> doesn't appear to be any fusion crust to speak of - although there are >> a few scattered tiny patches of black on it. The stone weighs 16 >> grams. I only made 2 cuts - I cut one corner off to expose the matrix >> (endcut) and I made one thin slice. The rest of the stone is intact. >> >> Here are some photo links - >> >> http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/Anomalous/new-odd-cut/odd-new-1.jpg >> >> http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/Anomalous/new-odd-cut/odd-new-2.jpg >> >> http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj24/Meteoritethrower/Meteorites/Anomalous/new-odd-cut/odd-new-3.jpg >> >> Any opinions are welcomed. >> >> Best regards, >> >> MikeG >> >> -- >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From info at tektiteinc.com Tue Jun 30 22:41:24 2009 From: info at tektiteinc.com (info at tektiteinc.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:41:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD Tektite Inc eBay Shop 50% all Rizalites! Message-ID: <50227.127.0.0.1.1246416084.squirrel@syd-srv07.ezyreg.com> Hello all, Want a quality Rizalite specimen at half the cost? If so, please visit my eBay shop where all items are less 50%. Thanks! Cheers, Desmond Leong IMCA #2254 http://www.TektiteInc.com http://stores.ebay.com/Tektite-Inc http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtektiteinc-dot-com