[meteorite-list] A question?????

[Sterling K. Webb]

Let me get this straight.

We have (in no particular order of
favoritism): Terrestrial meteorite,
Tellurite, Terrenite, Terranite, Earthite,
and possibly Gaiaite or Geoite.

So, when a "meteor" of Earth origin is
travelling toward becoming a "meteorite"
of whatever designation, is it referred to
as: a Terrestroid? an Earthoid? A Telluroid?
A Terranoid? Or possibly a Gaiaoid or
Geooid?

All these Earthican languages, and this
is the best we can do?


Sterling K. Webb
-----------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question?????



> Hiho Mr. Martindale, (Isn't Miss Martindale a Tellurian? UK humor)

>

> The adjective already in the language defined in the more limited 

> manner we want is TERRENE. So throw out TERRAN and use TERRENE and I'm 

> fine, are you?

>

> ---------------------------------

>

> I didn't think so... all right...mmmm, I'll plug and grind away at 

> some of your reply which seemed to unnecessarily and possibly 

> incorrectly to look to Latin to make up words and take the ancients 

> out of context ...

>

> Back to reality, and plain English. (The Italians can debate whether 

> Terran works for them, but that seems like a silly argument for 

> English. "Terran" is not a generally accepted English word that evokes 

> sci-fi to meant it was not my intent to make up new words when 

> sufficient words already exist in plain English - that was the real 

> reason I called it a "sci-fi" word. I do not feel it is in a mere 

> mortal's place to modify the dictionary any more than a fire hydrant.

>

> TERRESTRIAL is the word, if we didn't happen to live here and already 

> have plenty of uses for it w/r to meteorites and geology IMO - it 

> seems you are sympathetic to the idea that "terrestrial" has 

> meteorwrong, pseudometeorite, etc. as unwanted confusion and baggage. 

> Besides since all the Inner planets are terrestrial, they are 

> terrestrial meteorites if you want to get picky, vs. cometary, etc. 

> Then weathering, terrestrialization ... Just way too much confusion.

>

> So I

> think TERRENE and TELLURIAN (consistently defined as from earth 

> without inventing a new word) are both fine and not exclusive (of 

> course not, they are words common man has every right to use) any more 

> than calling something a Martian meteorite or a Mars meteorite - where 

> both descriptors are OK. If you want to look for obscure or invented 

> words, TERRAN is great, too, I suppose, as long as you find one first 

> and publish the precedent. Else, I don't agree.

>

> Quoting Cicero (unless you mean the guy from Sky & Tel), won't get you 

> any points unless you do a dissertation on what was going on in 

> people's minds back then! Earth was an element, comparable to air and 

> water, not a planet in a modern sense.

>

> How do I know Cicero wasn't being sarcastic? Your liberty with the 

> translation of the word dicitur, you try to pass it with authority(!) 

> as nominative and tending to exclusive...hmmm.... perhaps is just 

> means "say", as in this land for which we say dirt? I don't see it 

> very important either way as there is no need to be dweebish (the word 

> you were looking for) by taking quotes out of context of a near dead 

> though beautiful language since OE and Webster's dictionaries have all 

> we need in boldface.

>

> In German, Terran might be the right word - no problem! As for the 

> comments about the "poetic negative" for tellurian, you totally lost 

> me there and let me add gender as a factor, is Terran more

> macho and Tellurian more effeminate and is that you basis - well, 

> earth out to be effeminate as it is named after a woman...like Venus. 

> Mars is masculine sure... I already gave you the support of the 

> periodic chart of the elements tellurium ("from the earth"), which 

> should be enough to earn a place. It may be that some Germans think 

> the entire English Language sounds poetic compared to theirs! When you 

> discuss by some weird logic I don't follow that this poetic stuff 

> extends to it being the goddess as opposed to the planet, I only wish 

> Mr. Peabody were here to send you to have a face to face with the 

> Legions in the WayBack Machine, the you could see that the planets got 

> their names from Gods that represented them, like Jupiter, Mars, 

> Mercury and Venus. Do we call something Jupiteran or Jupiterian? No we 

> call it Jovian. Why? Because it is the word in the dictionary, from 

> Jove, btw, the "poetic" form of Jupiter. That's how adjectives can be 

> ... For parallel logic, you can't help but trip over "Tellurian".

>

> I think you would find that the ancients had no reasonable vocabulary 

> to describe adjectives for the Earth as a planet because regardless of 

> what shape they thought it had, it was still the the point of 

> reference for the Universe, and was a different animal from the 

> planets they named. That is why terra means dirt in Italian and 

> Portuguese today.

>

> At best it would probably have more to

> do with the concept of "the world" Mundus or whatever the Latin folk 

> have. The English word for that which has as one definition meaning 

> terrestrial is mundane. So if you want to add "MUNDANE" to the pot , 

> be my guest. And Earth Meteorites seems fine too :)

>

> You might take a look at this which I just found, and I was happy to 

> see the sci-fi comment by whoever wrote the current version:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexicography_of_Earth

>

> Best wishes,

> Doug

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Martin Altmann <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>

> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

> Sent: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 9:12 am

> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question?????

>

>

>

> Hiho Doug,

>

>>the name of the planet "Terra" is more based in science fiction of 

>>some

>>authors these days rather.

>

> Cicero: "ille globus quae terra dicitur.."

> That ball, we call Earth.

>

> In principle "tellus" and "terra" are synonyms,

> but "tellus" is more poetic, means more the goddess, the Earth as 

> center of

> the world, in opposite to a celestial body;

>

> while "terra" means more the physical matter, the Earth as whole 

> physical

> entity (in fact as planet, as celestial body, if they wouldn't have 

> had a

> geocentric system)and also as one of the elements (water, fire..).

>

> Although for the elements only, there for was also "solum", means also

> earth, used,

> especially in opposite to the element water - see also today "solid".

> =0

> AAnd additionally in the meaning of "land" "ground", "bottom".

>

> Finally there is still "humus" for earth.

> That means earth in the sense of the hierarchic system of the spheres,

> where the sphere of the element earth was in the center of the 

> universe,

> (below the sphere of water, below the sphere of air...).

> So it means the lowest, the inmost. (humble, humiliate ect.).

>

> "Tellurem pro terra posuit, quum tellurem deam dicamus, terram 

> elementum."

> Maurus Servius Honoratus (a grammarian around AD 420)

>

>

> Uh my Latin... well he says, fort he goddess "tellus", fort he element

> "terra".

>

> Hmmm I would say, from the Roman ancient world until the modern times,

> "terra" was more in use to denominate Earth as planet. (Also because 

> of the

> Christian tradition, as "terra" is used in the Latin bible. See also

> Augustinus).

>

> So perhaps we should stay with Terra?

>

> The adjective to Terra in Latin would be "terrenus".

> So probably "Terran meteorite" would be correct.

>

> Exist also Latin "terrestris", but that means rather "located on 

> Earth, part

> of the Earth",

> so we could leave "terrestrial" for pseudo-meteorites.

>

> (btw. Mars, Martis --> Martian. (Martinus, says Martin, the Martian).

> Mercur, Mercuris ---> Mercurian. Venus, Veneris ---> Venerian. (cause 

> I

> read somewhere Venusian) Hmm the Doug "Dawn"-space probe is on the way 

> to

> Vesta. Vestalian meteorites sounds a little bit....)

>

>

> Uuuuuuh, a posting like from one of those class mates from th

> e 1st row,

> you never wanted to be friend with...(Don't know the right expression. 

> Geek?

> Swot?..)

>

> Have a nice weekend!

> Martin

>

>

>

>

>

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----

> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com

> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von

> Mexicodoug

> Gesendet: Samstag, 6. Juni 2009 09:34

> An: jgrossman at usgs.gov; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] A question?????

>

> Dr. Grossman wrote:

>

> "I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or

> perhaps a terran meteorite."

>

> Hi Jeff,

>

> Definitely those are viable options, though I think this subject would

> spark more debate than Pluto, Plutonian and Plutonic in these extended

> circles if it ever had a type specimen.

>

> I think the name "TELLURIAN", the adjective (From TELLUS[Earth]) might

> be another option, and perhaps more harmonic.

>

> Given the confusion and stigma with "terrestrial" in meteoritics

> frequently being used to describe meteorwrongs, I think this third

> choice could be considered on equal footing without having the 

> baggage.

> Do I recall many scientists objecting for example to the useage of

> "plutonic" as an adjective for Plutoness?

>

> Utilizing Mars as an example and considering the name of the planet

> "Terra" is more based in science fiction of some authors these days

> rather than "Terra Mater", the Roman goddess. As for Terran, it sounds

> a bit far fetched to me, but hey...

> For meteorite collectors who will no do

> ubt be the first to collect

> these so far legendary things, it seems our examples:

>

> martian meteorite (martian for short)

> lunar meteorite (lunar for short, ocassionally the throat-twisting

> lunaite)

> ...why not:

> tellurian meteorite (tellurian for short)

>

> Tellus, the equivalent Roman Earth goddess as Terra Mater, which

> further rounds out the Earth-panteon of Roman possibilities, seems

> almost a natural option

> and probably just slipped your list.

>

> I didn't mention tellurite since there is already a mineral named this

> with a cool blue subadamantine sheen...chemists (who as we know

> generally don't get no respect from geologists) that discovered the

> metallic element opted for Tellurium to name it after Earth, of 

> course,

> for similar considerations we have now, and probably too avoid

> confusion with terrariums, those fish tanks filled with dirt.

> Ironically, Earth's crust is astonishingly poor in this element, vs.

> meteorites and the cosmos in general. Well, they were chemists after

> all. So "Terran meteorite" might have an edge here is you like to say

> Terraite three times fast. (If someone likes tongue-twisters, how

> about, five times fast, "Terr's Tertiary temper terrified Terry the

> teary Terran from Tetroe." got to roll the rr's ad pronounce it

> Tee-troe.

>

> Anway, tellurian and terran sounds like great candidates to me.

> Considering the hard sound of Terran, which sounds a lot like "dirt"

> (real dumb joke alert) and might give us customs problems when we get

> our space faring

> passports or ship meteorites around the Solar system,

> not to mention hurt meteorite dealers' sales...

>

> In any case, I'll wait for the first guy who breaks the myth and

> recovers material for science to Tellus what to call it. (oops, never

> hear the end of that one)

>

> Hoping to escape this heat and join the Telluridian Festivarians for

> the Solstice,

> Doug

> (chemist)

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov>

> Sent: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 5:12 am

> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A question?????

>

>

> I think most scientists would call it a terrestrial meteorite, or

> perhaps a terran meteorite.

> jeff

> Pete Shugar at clearwire.net wrote:

>> We have the Martian type meteorite, and we have the Lunar meteorite 

>> and last, the asteroid 4Vesta meteorite. These we know where they 

>> come from. Now the question---given enough energy, can a meteorite 

>> hit earth and eject debris which (maybe) land on the moon or Mars? 

>> What would we call such a meteorite---Earthoid, or maybe Earthite? 

>> Just contemplating my navel here. Pete 

>> ______________________________________________ 

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>

> -- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184 US Geological Survey 

> fax: (703) 648-6383

> 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA

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