From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net Fri May 1 00:53:02 2009 From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:53:02 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Here is the link for the item # of the sale on February 15th, 2009 to Bob Evans for the Fredericksburg on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280313466105 Message-ID: <017e01c9ca18$b639b1b0$4001a8c0@BRIANSCOMPUTER> Hello List members, I'm trying to help clear up any questions regarding the Fredericksburg meteorite that I sold to Bob Evans on February 15, 2009. I've been asked by several IMCA and list members for this information to determine when Bob Evans got the meteorite from me. Here is the link to my ebay auction that Bob Evans bought on February 15, 2009. He paid for it the next day 2/16 and received it on February 19, and left me feedback Feb. 19. You would have to contact him for further information when he started selling it on ebay. I only got a chance to look at the posts tonight and am not involved in any discussions other than the Fredericksburg since that is what I was asked to explain. Here is the link for the item # of the sale to Bob Evans. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280313466105 Hope this helps with any questions. Thank you and have a very wonderful clear sky evening! Brian Cox IMCA # 6387 From geeg48 at msn.com Fri May 1 00:05:38 2009 From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:05:38 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello all, I take pleasure in contributing to the topic of "who are your favorite dealers. My list follows: 1) Dean Bessy: Dean has always given a good product for a very reasonable price. I've never been disappointed with his meteorites. I realize that he mainly deals in NWAs, but I have no problem with that. He has been a gentleman and has worked with me in making the deals smoothly and efficiently. Once again: Dean doesn't charge an arm and a leg for his stuff. 2) Eric Twelker: Another gentleman whose merchandise is also very reasonably priced. Eric has also taken the time to help inform me privately about certain meteorites that I've bought from him. Once again: Eric also doesn't charge an arm and a leg for his stuff. 3) Jack Lacroix: Jack is my best source for Campo Del Cielos (one of my favorite meteorites, cuz they look so cool). His merchandise is top quality and his prices are superb. He also has been very kind to me....the novice. Once again: Jack doesn't charge an arm and a leg for his stuff. (Beginning to see a trend here?) 4) Michael Cottingham: Michael has a wide variety of meteorites that are "way cool" and he has priced many of them within my meager reach. Thanks Michael. He has always sent me my meteorites promptly and I've never been disappointed. One last time: Michael also does not charge an arm and a leg for his stuff. For what it's worth, that's my list. Greg Lindh > From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com > Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:42:34 -0400 > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! > > I agree with Dean, the negative vibe on this list has been high. I can > think of several people whom I respect in the meteorite world (some who work > in teaching and or research) that will not use the list because of this > atmosphere. > > Let's face it, the list is about communication of information on > meteorites. That might be scientific information or sales information. Were all > collectors so it's "ALL GOOD"! Abuse of advertising should be addressed by > the list administrator ONLY! All sounding off from anyone about anything > related to advertising does harm to the list and it's reputation (right now > it has earned a very hostile reputation). > > My idea? Let's start a new thread on your favorite dealers. > > I'll start and I'll start with Dean Bessey. Dean was one of the first > dealers to offer beautiful unclassified NWA's for (at the time) unheard of low > prices. No where could you get large beautiful meteorites for the price > he was asking. It is because of Dean I got hooked on meteorites. Over many > years I have purchased over 200 Kg (no kidding) from him and have loved > every one. > > Dean has launched many new meteorite collectors. > > Thanks Dean, Tom Phillips > > In a message dated 4/30/2009 7:06:45 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, > deanbessey at yahoo.com writes: > > How about we make a new rule. > "Only one bitching about it posting allowed per ad posting" > Cheers > DEAN > > --- On Thu, 4/30/09, bill kies wrote: > >> From: bill kies >> Subject: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 5:32 PM >> Fair play for all. >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online >> storage. >> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_042009 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the > web. Get the Radio Toolbar! > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From info at mcomemeteorite.it Fri May 1 00:36:04 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 06:36:04 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] cottingham Message-ID: <49fa7c34.d5.7f7.688490395@webmaildh6.aruba.it> I agree for the spam, sinceraly I am boken to seen every few days tons of AD from Cottingham when the list rule say 1 AD for week. Where is Art? Matteo ----- Original Message ----- Da : bill kies A : Oggetto : [meteorite-list] cottingham Data : Thu, 30 Apr 2009 17:45:48 -0500 > The met-list. A priceless tool or a tool with a price? I'm > sick of bitching about cottingham. Look at his ads for > this month. Why the hell should we care about his profits > or how he finances his next spam. He's insulted us by > claiming to be a charitable institution and he has > accelerated his nonsense ever since. 3 ads a day is sick. > He is a relentless parasite that is only concerned with > profit. > __________________________________________________________ > _______ Windows Live? Hotmail?: more than just e-mail. > http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_more_042009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.info Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html From info at mcomemeteorite.it Fri May 1 00:37:44 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 06:37:44 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] cottingham Message-ID: <49fa7c98.3e1.866.1355979877@webmaildh6.aruba.it> Art when you banned for this spam? Matteo ----- Original Message ----- Da : michael cottingham A : bill kies Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Oggetto : Re: [meteorite-list] cottingham Data : Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:21:51 -0700 > Not sure if I responded to this, but ... > > http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history > > > Great Deals Abound > > Michael Cottingham > > On Apr 30, 2009, at 3:45 PM, bill kies wrote: > > > > > > > The met-list. A priceless tool or a tool with a price? > > I'm sick of bitching about cottingham. Look at his ads > > for this month. Why the hell should we care about his > > profits or how he finances his next spam. He's > > insulted us by claiming to be a charitable institution > and he has accelerated his nonsense ever since. 3 ads a > > day is sick. He is a relentless parasite that is only > > concerned with profit. > __________________________________________________________ > > _______ Windows Live? Hotmail?: more than just e-mail. > > > http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_more_042009 > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.info Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html From info at mcomemeteorite.it Fri May 1 00:37:44 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 06:37:44 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] cottingham Message-ID: <49fa7c98.3e1.866.1355979877@webmaildh6.aruba.it> Art when you banned for this spam? Matteo ----- Original Message ----- Da : michael cottingham A : bill kies Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Oggetto : Re: [meteorite-list] cottingham Data : Thu, 30 Apr 2009 16:21:51 -0700 > Not sure if I responded to this, but ... > > http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history > > > Great Deals Abound > > Michael Cottingham > > On Apr 30, 2009, at 3:45 PM, bill kies wrote: > > > > > > > The met-list. A priceless tool or a tool with a price? > > I'm sick of bitching about cottingham. Look at his ads > > for this month. Why the hell should we care about his > > profits or how he finances his next spam. He's > > insulted us by claiming to be a charitable institution > and he has accelerated his nonsense ever since. 3 ads a > > day is sick. He is a relentless parasite that is only > > concerned with profit. > __________________________________________________________ > > _______ Windows Live? Hotmail?: more than just e-mail. > > > http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_more_042009 > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.info Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri May 1 02:27:11 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 23:27:11 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Asteroids: Million Year Video & Meteorite Makers Message-ID: <49FA963F.7050704@meteoritesusa.com> Article about the color of asteroids. It's interesting to think about what those cherished rocks from space look like before the end up in a collection here on earth. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17062-sun-damage-conceals-asteroids-true-ages.html This is a related topic to a post I made a while back on list about fusion crusted meteoroids and asteroids and the color of other small bodies in space. I was imagining what it would be like to fly around our solar system for millions of years witnessing the changing of our planets, moons, comets and asteroids. Could you imagine an indestructible digital video camera with unlimited memory and harddrive space mounted on an asteroid that traveled around the solar system for a million years? Imagine downloading the data and fast forwarding the video through a million years of time. Wonder what we could learn then. Too bad we can't send out a spaceship and tow an asteroid back into a high orbit around earth and study it up close. That would be pretty darn cool. Could you imagine a 20-30 foot wide asteroid orbiting Earth forever allowing scientists to study it closeup. Heck maybe install a little cannon on it and launch pieces of it at the Earth every so often when we need a new meteorite to study. If we can calculate the impact of 2008 TC3 we can certainly put the meteorite launcher in a low orbit around the Earth. Kind of a meteorite maker. Ok, yes it's late, I'm tired and bored. -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From mlblood at cox.net Fri May 1 03:00:56 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 00:00:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bob Walker and apologies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Tom, Thanks for the civil - even kind, response. As I said, Mr. Walker's humor doesn't always Tickle me. It doesn't make me smile, let alone laugh. Personally, I don't see it so much as defaming others As reflecting poorly upon himself - not all that much, however, As I see it as simply lampooning, like so many political cartoons One sees - just not the type I find particularly entertaining. However, you have made it clear that you find it highly offensive and I found it, therefore, amazing you would post the URL on the list..... Why "advertise" What you so strongly resent? In any event, thanks again for your very civil tone. Best wishes, Michael > From: Tomk > Organization: Crystal World > Reply-To: > Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 12:19:30 +1000 > To: Michael Blood , > Cc: Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bob Walker and apologies > > Hello Michael > Thank you for your frank comments , I appreciate the direct approach , and > it is certainly good to know that ,Bob isn't there to defend himself, as he > should have the opportunity to defend himself at some time . > > You are correct, re my violation of the list ethics , for which I make a > sincere apology to the group for my actions . > But please look at this link > http://webspace.ezadsl.net.au/~qwalkra/new_page_17.htm > and judge for yourself . > > I don't care what Bob says about me, but rather its others I am concerned > for who may not be so forthright in expressing their concerns. > I know a number of these people quite well and I feel its is extremely > inappropriate , as some are scientists who fail to do what Bob wanted ,or > should I say demanded . Others are collectors and dealers who I have known > for over 20 years and I hold in high regard . > It is inappropriate should be portrayed in such a manner. > Bob uses the list to direct people to his site , not necessarily for > commercial reasons but rather to denigrate others . If the group will > condone this, then obviously I am in the minority > > My vague accusations while being easily supported , I felt it was not > appropriate to burden the list with details of these controversial > matters . Hence offering those who wished further information to contact me > directly and freely leaving myself open to possible litigation .Life can > get quite boring at times and I enjoy a challenge . > > I only voiced my concerns after being sent emails from others who are being > denigrated by Bob and having a discussion with another list member re Bobs > bloggs > > Michael, I would be happy to forward you more details on this matter . > Regards > Tom Kapitany > > Ps having attention deficit , it can be hard to write coherently and have > good punctuation particularly at 2 am > > > > > > Tom Kapitany > B.Sc. Geology/Botany > Managing Director > > > Crystal World & Prehistoric Journeys > Australian Mineral Mines Pty. Ltd. > 13 Olive Rd Devon Meadows 3977 > Victoria Australia . > > Phone: (61-3) 59982493 > Fax: (61-3) 59982685 > Email: tomk at crystal-world.com > Web: www.crystal-world.com > www.collectorscorner.com.au > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Blood [mailto:mlblood at cox.net] > Sent: Friday, 1 May 2009 9:34 AM > To: tomk at crystal-world.com; Meteorite List > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bob Walker > > Tom, > I have no issue with you and would be fine with leaving this for Mr. > Walker's personal response, but I happen to know he is on active > Military maneuvers for his country for the next week or so and am not > Comfortable leaving such sweeping accusations unchallenged in his > absence. I simply object to what you have said in the forum you have > Said it and have no issue with you, personally and felt his lack of response > might be seen as admitting to your accusations. > I am confused, you say, " while freedom of speech should never be > discouraged. Standards and ethics must be maintained." > The least problem with the above statement is the punctuation. > The key problem is that your above comment is an oxymoron. > You accuse Mr. Walker of not paying his bills (a very non specific > AND INAPPROPRIATE COMMENT FOR THE LIST - unless several > List members have had the same problem with the same individual) > And swing a variety of accusations - most of which are vague. > While I certainly do not find all of Mr. Walker's "humor" funny, > Myself, I actually DO believe in freedom of speech. > That being said, it is you, not he, that is in violation of list > rules of using the list to make personal accusations about another > List member. > Lastly, to whom are you going to "foreword" a report of Mr. Walker's > Naughty behavior? Since, to the best of my knowledge (and I do read > All of Mr. Walker's posts, as he is far more consistent in posting to the > List than any other Australian of whom I am aware -though there certainly > Could be many others of who's origin I am unaware), Mr. Walker has not, > That I am aware of, been in violation of list behavior, whereas the same, > As seen in the post below, cannot be said of you. > Sincerely, Michael Blood > > >> From: Tomk >> Organization: Crystal World >> Reply-To: >> Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 02:26:28 +1000 >> To: Meteorite List >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Bob Walker >> >> >> Hello everybody >> I am not an active list member but it concerns me greatly that somebody > like >> Bob Walker is associated with this list . >> Not only does he not pay his bills but he will abuse anybody that wont do >> what he wants . Museum curators ,dealers and collectors alike >> See his hall of fame and you will understand >> I think his attitude to dealers and scientists should disqualify him from > a >> group such as this , while freedom of speech should never be discouraged. >> Standards and ethics must be maintained . >> If you take time to read his logs you will understand what I mean. >> Will anybody on this list be prepared to support this stance ? >> >> I will be happy to forward correspondences and link re Bobs activities if >> any body is interested . >> He has his own agenda and does not care who he steals from , or mischief > he >> creates with dealers and museums , which he appears to do with glee >> Personally I think he is a nut ! >> >> >> >> >> Tom Kapitany >> B.Sc. Geology/Botany >> Managing Director >> >> >> Crystal World & Prehistoric Journeys >> Australian Mineral Mines Pty. Ltd. >> 13 Olive Rd Devon Meadows 3977 >> Victoria Australia . >> >> Phone: (61-3) 59982493 >> Fax: (61-3) 59982685 >> Email: tomk at crystal-world.com >> Web: www.crystal-world.com >> www.collectorscorner.com.au >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Fri May 1 08:39:34 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:39:34 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 1, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_1_2009.html __________________________ **************Join ChristianMingle.com? FREE! Meet Christian Singles in your area. Start now! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221673648x1201419171/aol?redir=http://www.christianmingle.com/campaign.html%3Fcat%3Dadbuy%26 src%3Dplatforma%26adid%3Dfooter:050109%26newurl%3Dreg_path.html) From jwal2000 at swbell.net Fri May 1 11:09:43 2009 From: jwal2000 at swbell.net (Jerry A. Wallace) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 10:09:43 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] List removal Message-ID: <49FB10B7.70803@swbell.net> Due to the unexpected death of my Husband, Jerry A. Wallace, please remove him from the meteorite mailing list. All posts are just too much for me to read thru. Jerry has an inbox of over 15,000 emails. I will never get thru them if I keep adding 60-70 emails a day. I want to thank all who sent condolences thru Impactika. They mean a lot to me. Thanks, Kathy Wallace From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com Fri May 1 11:14:45 2009 From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:14:45 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fredricksburg Message-ID: Hi Brian; Thanks for the info! I'm trying to identify the part slice I was sold as Plymouth, a list member pointed out that it looked a lot like the Fredricksburg. It's probably not worth the time or money to microprobe it, at this point, I'm just curious as to what it is. Phil Whitmer From meteoritehunter at comcast.net Fri May 1 11:58:32 2009 From: meteoritehunter at comcast.net (Michael Farmer) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 08:58:32 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fredricksburg In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7C5B9381-55FD-4B62-9018-AEBE557D4744@comcast.net> Fredericksburg is actually now paired with Richland tx so there is no Fredericksburg. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone Michael On May 1, 2009, at 8:14 AM, "JoshuaTreeMuseum" wrote: From mfcollecter at yahoo.com Fri May 1 12:26:13 2009 From: mfcollecter at yahoo.com (Said Haddany) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 09:26:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] test Message-ID: <438217.22364.qm@web34305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Test , delet plz ? Said Haddany From meteorites at online.nl Fri May 1 12:26:29 2009 From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 18:26:29 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Claxton, New Orleans and Arctics back on Ebay Message-ID: <26B8DF57600747B88AC2DBC174F7F511@laptop> Listoids, I have relisted some rare ones on Ebay. I got alot of requests if the Arctics could be listed seperatly. I've done so with two of them. Have a look: Claxton with fantastic crust with mailbox paint all over: http://cgi.ebay.com/Claxton-Mailbox-Hammer-Meteorite-3-8-grams_W0QQitemZ170327016234QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem New Orleans "Hammer" 17,6 grams: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Orleans-House-Hammer-Meteorite-17-6-grams_W0QQitemZ170327263325QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Lazarev Antarctica Iron 7.14 grams etched slice, ultra rare!! http://cgi.ebay.com/LAZAREV-Antarctica-Meteorite_W0QQitemZ170327268880QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Thiel Mountains, Antarctica Pallasite slice, another very rare one: http://cgi.ebay.com/THIEL-MOUNTAINS-Antarctica-Meteorite_W0QQitemZ170327270532QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Enjoy!! Jan Bartels, IMCA #9833 Holland From chinaren76 at yahoo.com Fri May 1 12:54:24 2009 From: chinaren76 at yahoo.com (Ma Lan) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 09:54:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: ebay auction with starting price at just $0.01 Message-ID: <54223.18995.qm@web52703.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello list, Here is two pieces of Zunhua with FC(1.9 grams and 7.0 grams, respectively), and all with starting price at just 1 cent, http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/common_murre_W0QQ_dmdZ1QQ_ipgZ50QQ_sopZ12 Good luck! Best, Ma Lan IMCA #8234 Web http://www.malanmeteorites.com From ensaist at gmail.com Fri May 1 13:23:46 2009 From: ensaist at gmail.com (Ahmad bouragaa) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 19:23:46 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD :Tamdakht+ Iron stone for sale, Message-ID: <2baeaea40905011023u41b450a0wc510a6f552481d04@mail.gmail.com> Hi list, I hope all have a good day, I have update my? album on flickr, I have add some complete or nearly complete Tamdakht, and tow verry nice iron: http://www.flickr.com/photos/36221954 at N07/ who's interessing , please contact me off the list; best regards Ahmed From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri May 1 15:46:49 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 12:46:49 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Richland (Fredericksburg) Message-ID: Hello All, I was one to inquire information about the Fredericksburg. My intent was not to bash Bob Evans or anybody. Just recently I bought a small 4.5g Fredricksburg (sic) from Mare Meteoritics and was wondering why this piece was selling on ebay at such a high price. I wrote to Brian rather than to Bob because I knew Brian from past experiences. I had noted that this piece was selling at near $15 a gram on ebay vs. a dollar a gram Mike Martinez was selling. Brian had mentioned an incident a couple years ago involving this meteorite to which I had gone back to look up. Whenever I get a new meteorite to add to my collection, I try to find as much info I can about it. Sometimes all the info is just what's in the Meteoritical Society, other times a little more digging is necessary. Believe it or not sometimes some more info can be had by reading what sellers have to say about a piece in their descriptions. Carl Brian Cox wrote: I'm trying to help clear up any questions regarding the Fredericksburg meteorite that I sold to Bob Evans on February 15, 2009. I've been asked by several IMCA and list members for this information to determine when Bob Evans got the meteorite from me... _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has a new way to see what's up with your friends. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_WhatsNew1_052009 From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Fri May 1 16:03:04 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:03:04 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! Message-ID: I may be in the silent majority or minority but I actually enjoy going thru each AD on this list. No matter if it's the same seller with ADS several times a week. I've picked up quite a few deals offered. Perhaps it's because I'm so new in collecting meteorites that it's fun to get new pieces vs. the older collectors that already have everything and is tired of hearing about it. Thanks! Carl PS. I hope you all don't kill me if there is a sudden deluge of ADs all of a sudden! _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009 From GeoZay at aol.com Fri May 1 16:27:37 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 16:27:37 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! Message-ID: >>I may be in the silent majority or minority but I actually enjoy going thru each AD on this list. No matter if it's the same seller with ADS several times a week. I've picked up quite a few deals offered. Perhaps it's because I'm so new in collecting meteorites that it's fun to get new pieces vs. the older collectors that already have everything and is tired of hearing about it. Thanks! Carl<< I agree with you whole heartedly. For example, I get a lot of Eric Wichmann's ads over his private list and I often take a looksy...even though I haven't bought anything since he's formed that list. But I like to see what he's offering and someday I just might see that particular goody and will make a purchase. Whenever I get tired of a certain individual's ad, I know where my delete button is and I can easily recognize Eric's email address. The same goes for Cottingham's offers. I think he's a bit high priced, but I like looking at them all the same. My wife and I agreed on how much I will spend on such trinkets on a monthly basis, thus I'm a little descriminating with my purchases. GeoZay **************Join ChristianMingle.com? FREE! Meet Christian Singles in your area. Start now! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221673648x1201419171/aol?redir=http://www.christianmingle.com/campaign.html%3Fcat%3Dadbuy%26 src%3Dplatforma%26adid%3Dfooter:050109%26newurl%3Dreg_path.html) From pekka.savolainen at dlc.fi Fri May 1 16:46:13 2009 From: pekka.savolainen at dlc.fi (Pekka Savolainen) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 23:46:13 +0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49FB5F95.3040503@dlc.fi> How about no ADS at all, but commercial information allowed... ;-) Think we all have a del-key in our keyboards. best, pekka s GeoZay at aol.com kirjoitti: >>> I may be in the silent majority or minority but I actually enjoy going >>> > thru each AD on this list. No matter if it's the same seller with ADS > several times a week. I've picked up quite a few deals offered. Perhaps it's > because I'm so new in collecting meteorites that it's fun to get new pieces vs. > the older collectors that already have everything and is tired of hearing > about it. Thanks! > > Carl<< > > I agree with you whole heartedly. For example, I get a lot of Eric > Wichmann's ads over his private list and I often take a looksy...even though I > haven't bought anything since he's formed that list. But I like to see what > he's offering and someday I just might see that particular goody and will > make a purchase. Whenever I get tired of a certain individual's ad, I know > where my delete button is and I can easily recognize Eric's email address. The > same goes for Cottingham's offers. I think he's a bit high priced, but I > like looking at them all the same. My wife and I agreed on how much I will > spend on such trinkets on a monthly basis, thus I'm a little descriminating > with my purchases. > GeoZay > > **************Join ChristianMingle.com? FREE! Meet Christian Singles in > your area. Start now! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221673648x1201419171/aol?redir=http://www.christianmingle.com/campaign.html%3Fcat%3Dadbuy%26 > src%3Dplatforma%26adid%3Dfooter:050109%26newurl%3Dreg_path.html) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.12/2090 - Release Date: 05/01/09 06:17:00 > > -- Solar Gems Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FI-71330 Rasala FINLAND GSM + 358 400 818 912 pekka.savolainen at dlc.fi Member of IMCA 5776 www.imca.cc From epgrondine at yahoo.com Fri May 1 16:58:47 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:58:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Chevrons' Are Not Evidence Of Megatsunamis Message-ID: <520398.37042.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Paul, all - A rather cryptic article, but then one might think that these researchers may have considered another hypothesis, that yet another impact mega-tsunami occured. I suppose this belongs with Keller's latest results as well. But then denial is not simply a river in Egypt. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Fri May 1 17:17:30 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:17:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Test Message-ID: <333118.27883.qm@web46408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> fuzzy wuzzy was a bear, fuzzy wuzzy had no hair... This is a test, why are you reading me? From GeoZay at aol.com Fri May 1 17:18:39 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 17:18:39 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! Message-ID: >>After all, everyone was jumping all over Steve Arnold for his ads, but it seems the same are ready to defend others for the same thing... Isnt that a little odd?<< There might be some on this topic a little wishy washy, but I for one defended Steve to make his ad posts as I'm in favor of others that are doing it now. I personally wondered once Steve leaves, who was gonna take up the banner of being the whipping boy on this list and who were gonna do the "whipping". :O) GeoZay **************Join ChristianMingle.com? FREE! Meet Christian Singles in your area. Start now! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221673648x1201419171/aol?redir=http://www.christianmingle.com/campaign.html%3Fcat%3Dadbuy%26 src%3Dplatforma%26adid%3Dfooter:050109%26newurl%3Dreg_path.html) From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Fri May 1 17:26:55 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:26:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Assorted stuff Message-ID: <676324.72096.qm@web46413.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi to all, hope everyone is having a good day! I have sold all but 3 samples out of the 300 or so grams of the NWA LL4 S3 W1 material. It has been submitted for NWA number and I will be updating all buyers once the number is given. Price per gram is $5 - which is very reasonable for LL4 material... There is also a few L'aigle fragments left, 2 large and 3 small. Off ebay cost for the L'aigle - $40 for the bigger pieces and $18 for the smaller ones. These all come with outstanding provenance. I need to get some cash together to pay for an order of new NWA material, I am getting a very nice 600g Type 3 chondrite and a few other nice stones, so feel free to make reasonable offers on the items listed on ebay. I can do better prices off ebay so keep that in mind. You can see what is left by visiting my ebay page: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/star_wars_coiiector From GeoZay at aol.com Fri May 1 17:28:55 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 17:28:55 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! Message-ID: >>On the other hand, I am on the list for science information, and on any chance of a Wyoming fall. I buy my meteorites from trusted associates I have known for years and don't need to shop farther than them. I bet better prices from them than these hot sale offers. My finger gets tired of delete, delete, delete delete, HOT SALE DELETE DELETE DELETE AND THIS IS IN MY SPAM BOX, << As for the science information goes, I think there is a fair amount of that being posted. The ads haven't crowded them out for me, nor have the science info crowded any of the ads. My god man...if your finger gets tired hitting the delete button, you need to do more than exercising your finger. Try some jumping jacks. :O) I don't shop for the sales...I shop for the bargains, wherever they may creep up at. I've found that if one is patient enuf, a bargain crops up once in awhile. I know what I want and hang in the back ground till I come across the offer. Just because I have a certain amount of money available, doesn't mean I'm gonna spend it foolishly. GeoZay **************Join ChristianMingle.com? FREE! Meet Christian Singles in your area. Start now! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221673648x1201419171/aol?redir=http://www.christianmingle.com/campaign.html%3Fcat%3Dadbuy%26 src%3Dplatforma%26adid%3Dfooter:050109%26newurl%3Dreg_path.html) From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri May 1 17:30:53 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 16:30:53 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Not an AD : Yet.... Message-ID: Hi Listees! I am in final preparations for moving from Louisiana to Florida, so all of my meteorites are packed up. I have been on a buying rampage lately (over $3k in the last 3 weeks) and I have a boatload of new specimens to offer once I get down to Florida and get everything unpacked. UNWA (pretty ones), etched Muonionalusta slices, Silicated Campos, Darwin glass, shattercones, opalized Ammonites, tektites, planetaries (Martians), Libyan Desert Glass, scale cubes, magnets, loupes, Riker boxes, gemjars, impactites from numerous localities, and several rare meteorite books. All of this and more will be offered to the public at my grand re-opening sale which will be announced sometime late next week or the following week. And of course, I always have a full stock of micromounts from over 30 finds and falls - from the mundane (NWA 869) to the exotic - Brachinite, Tagish Lake, historicals, hammers, and more. If you would like to be put on my advance-notification list (to get first look at the new stuff before the public does) - email me at mike at galactic-stone.com and ask to be put on the list. Thanks for looking and clear skies! MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Fri May 1 17:40:49 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 16:40:49 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Chevrons' Are Not Evidence Of Megatsunamis References: <520398.37042.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9E50DA5550FD4F14AC75805C92B0BF81@ATARIENGINE2> E.P., Paul, List, First, geology has a proof for everything, no matter how contradictory. Bortz and the Scablands, Wegener and Drift, "Strata" Smith and, well, strata. Takes a lifetime (literally) for truth to out. Not to mention how long it took for the existence of impacts to be accepted (50-60 years) by geologists. We still though the Moon was all volcanic surface features right up to the moment we got there. Duh. Second, rationization and models are not enough. That's why Reality has to count. Simple test. "Chevrons" have to be aligned (within some margin of error) with a crater or impact site in water or other event like massive mass-slip. Accumulate evidence of both. Assume margin of error of ten degrees in alignment (or pick your own figure). If you find 36 candidate chevrons and only one aligns with an impact or other causitive site, then the two are absolutely not connected. Of course, it's not that easy. Not all craters get found, not all tidal waves have a crater but another cause (seismic, mass-slip), but if more than 4 to 7 are aligned, the odds are many (most, some, you pick) chverons are indicators of such events. Takes a long time and the accumulation of lots of evidence, more than we have now, probably. Time (but not geologic time) will tell. Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.P. Grondine" To: Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Chevrons' Are Not Evidence Of Megatsunamis > > Hi Paul, all - > > > A rather cryptic article, but then one might think that these > researchers may have considered another hypothesis, that yet another > impact mega-tsunami occured. > > I suppose this belongs with Keller's latest results as well. > > But then denial is not simply a river in Egypt. > > E.P. Grondine > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteorites at online.nl Fri May 1 17:44:33 2009 From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 23:44:33 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD follow up...... Message-ID: <3298CB8AC31D4431A2ED3C2B02377CF6@laptop> Listoids, I sent out the message earlier about Claxton and stuff were back on Ebay. Claxton and New Orleans are sold....thanks alot !! The Arctics are still there Best, Jan IMCA #9833 From epgrondine at yahoo.com Fri May 1 17:59:14 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 14:59:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Chevrons' Are Not Evidence Of Megatsunamis Message-ID: <504233.89900.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Sterling - The best recent impact mega-tsunami data is several feet of sterile "marine sediments" between occupation levels. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas --- On Fri, 5/1/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote: > From: Sterling K. Webb > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Chevrons' Are Not Evidence Of Megatsunamis > To: "E.P. Grondine" , meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Friday, May 1, 2009, 4:40 PM > E.P., Paul, List, > > First, geology has a proof for everything, no > matter how contradictory. Bortz and the > Scablands, Wegener and Drift, "Strata" > Smith and, well, strata. Takes a lifetime > (literally) for truth to out. Not to mention > how long it took for the existence of impacts > to be accepted (50-60 years) by geologists. > We still though the Moon was all volcanic > surface features right up to the moment > we got there. Duh. > > Second, rationization and models are not > enough. That's why Reality has to count. > > Simple test. "Chevrons" have to be aligned > (within some margin of error) with a crater > or impact site in water or other event like > massive mass-slip. Accumulate evidence of > both. Assume margin of error of ten degrees > in alignment (or pick your own figure). If > you find 36 candidate chevrons and only > one aligns with an impact or other causitive > site, then the two are absolutely not connected. > > Of course, it's not that easy. Not all craters > get found, not all tidal waves have a crater but > another cause (seismic, mass-slip), but if more > than 4 to 7 are aligned, the odds are many > (most, some, you pick) chverons are indicators > of such events. > > Takes a long time and the accumulation of lots > of evidence, more than we have now, probably. > Time (but not geologic time) will tell. > > > Sterling K. Webb > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "E.P. Grondine" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 3:58 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Chevrons' Are Not Evidence > Of > Megatsunamis > > > > > > Hi Paul, all - > > > > > > A rather cryptic article, but then one might think > that these > > researchers may have considered another hypothesis, > that yet another > > impact mega-tsunami occured. > > > > I suppose this belongs with Keller's latest results as > well. > > > > But then denial is not simply a river in Egypt. > > > > E.P. Grondine > > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > From parkforestmet at hotmail.com Fri May 1 19:07:38 2009 From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 18:07:38 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I enjoy ads. Ads are the life blood of the meteorite world. Ads are educational. If people were not making money there would be so much less motivation to scour the world at their own expense. We'd have to depend on the sorry few, institutionalized characters, that would have us believe that they are the custodians of all things meteoric as they do nothing. Much like archaeologists that insist amateurs can't be sanctioned to excavate in front of the bulldosers. Ads are beautiful, once a week. GeoZ. I'm surprised at your take on this. I've never seen a rule breaker survive over at meteorobs. ---------------------------------------- > From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:03:04 -0700 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! > > > > I may be in the silent majority or minority but I actually enjoy going thru each AD on this list. No matter if it's the same seller with ADS several times a week. I've picked up quite a few deals offered. Perhaps it's because I'm so new in collecting meteorites that it's fun to get new pieces vs. the older collectors that already have everything and is tired of hearing about it. Thanks! > > Carl > > PS. I hope you all don't kill me if there is a sudden deluge of ADs all of a sudden! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. > http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009 From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri May 1 19:08:50 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 16:08:50 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Weekend Sale Message-ID: <49FB8102.2080406@meteoritesusa.com> Hi all, I'm having a big Weekend Sale. Super deals on great meteorites for this weekend. Order tonight and get free shipping inside the USA. First come first served. No holds or checks. Payment by Paypal or credit card only. 803.1g Chondrite Meteorite: $321 http://www.meteoritesusa.com/nwa-meteorites/unwa-803-1g.htm 642.9g Chondrite Meteorite: $250 http://www.meteoritesusa.com/nwa-meteorites/unwa-642-9g.htm 571.6g Chondrite Meteorite: $199 http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-571-6g.jpg 35.5g Chondrite Meteorite: $10 http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-35-5g.jpg 1266.2g Chondrite Meteorite: $350 Shipped http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-1266-2g.jpg 104.8g Chondrite Meteorite: $42 http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-104-8g.jpg 306.5g Chondrite Meteorite: $122 http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-306-5g.jpg 394.2g Chondrite Meteorite: $157 http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-394-2g.jpg 161.3g Chondrite Meteorite: $75 http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-161-3g.jpg Tamdakht: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tamdakht-meteorite-for-sale.htm 3 STONE DEAL - I've also got a 602.8g gram lot of three very nice chondrite meteorites - WHOLE STONES only $192 Shipped END CUT DEAL: 898.8g Lot of Very Nice End cuts and Half cut chondrites. Very good deal on this lot of stones. $449 FIRM Will ship first thing Monday. Call me to order 904-236-5394 Or EMAIL: eric at meteoritesusa.com Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA 904-236-5394 -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri May 1 19:15:47 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 18:15:47 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: What kills me if that the IMCA looks the other way while it's members make a mockery of Art's rules. Apparently they aren't concerned too much about their public image. Other organizations would give the boot to members who flagrantly violate rules of public venues. Not only are the rules selectively enforced here on the list, but apparently the IMCA follows a similar strategy. On 5/1/09, bill kies wrote: > > I enjoy ads. Ads are the life blood of the meteorite world. Ads are > educational. If people were not making money there would be so much less > motivation to scour the world at their own expense. We'd have to depend on > the sorry few, institutionalized characters, that would have us believe that > they are the custodians of all things meteoric as they do nothing. Much like > archaeologists that insist amateurs can't be sanctioned to excavate in front > of the bulldosers. > > Ads are beautiful, once a week. > > GeoZ. I'm surprised at your take on this. I've never seen a rule breaker > survive over at meteorobs. > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:03:04 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! >> >> >> >> I may be in the silent majority or minority but I actually enjoy going >> thru each AD on this list. No matter if it's the same seller with ADS >> several times a week. I've picked up quite a few deals offered. Perhaps >> it's because I'm so new in collecting meteorites that it's fun to get new >> pieces vs. the older collectors that already have everything and is tired >> of hearing about it. Thanks! >> >> Carl >> >> PS. I hope you all don't kill me if there is a sudden deluge of ADs all of >> a sudden! >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. >> http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009 >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _________________________________________________________________ > Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. > http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From GeoZay at aol.com Fri May 1 19:20:22 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 19:20:22 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! Message-ID: >>GeoZ. I'm surprised at your take on this. I've never seen a rule breaker survive over at meteorobs.<< And you don't see much activity over there either. Most of my posts gets shelved for days/weeks at a time that it's not worth the bother by the time they do.Too many stringent rules stifle activity. GeoZay **************Join ChristianMingle.com? FREE! Meet Christian Singles in your area. Start now! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221673648x1201419171/aol?redir=http://www.christianmingle.com/campaign.html%3Fcat%3Dadbuy%26 src%3Dplatforma%26adid%3Dfooter:050109%26newurl%3Dreg_path.html) From edwinthompson at comcast.net Fri May 1 19:32:27 2009 From: edwinthompson at comcast.net (edwinthompson at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 23:32:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - D'Orbigny angrite main mass for $225 per gram! In-Reply-To: <1429426773.3383981241220709330.JavaMail.root@sz0040a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1460029736.3384051241220747966.JavaMail.root@sz0040a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> .....OR BEST OFFER! Hello fellow list members. I understand that even though the price per gram for this amazing meteorite is low that the total amount is beyond many collector's budgets for a single specimen. Still, please check out the listing on EBay if you haven't already. The pictures are really fun to look at and one photograph shows an impressive vesicle that measures over one centimeter in diameter. Although not in this main mass fragment, there are vesicles in D'Orbigny that are over 2.5 centimeters in diameter! D'Orbigny also contains huge olivine clasts, smokey colored volcanic glass inclusions, vugs filled with beautiful augite crystals and a matrix filled with this porous crystalline structure and glass lined vesicles. Patrick and I are hoping that this specimen remains intact. There are several institutions showing an interest in acquiring this piece. It would be great to see this specimen makes it's way to a major public display. Please write off list to etmeteorites at hotmail.com if you have any questions about D'Orbigny. Thanks and have a great weekend, E.T. www.etmeteorites.com http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200334816725&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri May 1 19:36:15 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 18:36:15 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - D'Orbigny angrite main mass for $225 per gram! In-Reply-To: <1460029736.3384051241220747966.JavaMail.root@sz0040a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1429426773.3383981241220709330.JavaMail.root@sz0040a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1460029736.3384051241220747966.JavaMail.root@sz0040a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Good luck with the sale. What an amazing specimen. If you can finance me, I will buy it. How does $500 down and $200 a month for the next 60 years sound? ;) LOL Just kidding. Seriously though, good luck finding an appropriate home for that spectacular mass. :) Best regards, MikeG On 5/1/09, edwinthompson at comcast.net wrote: > .....OR BEST OFFER! > > > Hello fellow list members. I understand that even though the price per gram > for this amazing meteorite is low that the total amount is beyond many > collector's budgets for a single specimen. Still, please check out the > listing on EBay if you haven't already. The pictures are really fun to look > at and one photograph shows an impressive vesicle that measures over one > centimeter in diameter. Although not in this main mass fragment, there are > vesicles in D'Orbigny that are over 2.5 centimeters in diameter! D'Orbigny > also contains huge olivine clasts, smokey colored volcanic glass inclusions, > vugs filled with beautiful augite crystals and a matrix filled with this > porous crystalline structure and glass lined vesicles. Patrick and I are > hoping that this specimen remains intact. There are several institutions > showing an interest in acquiring this piece. It would be great to see this > specimen makes it's way to a major public display. Please write off list to > etmeteorites at hotmail.com > if you have any questions about D'Orbigny. > > Thanks and have a great weekend, > > E.T. > > > www.etmeteorites.com > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200334816725&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From mark at meteorites.cc Fri May 1 19:52:17 2009 From: mark at meteorites.cc (Mark Crawford) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 00:52:17 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49FB8B31.50501@meteorites.cc> Mike, I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. IMCA is IMCA, MetList is an open email forum (very lightly) moderated by Art. They are not in any way related, other than the obvious fact that the community is small, many IMCA members are list members, and vice versa. If you're suggesting that IMCA should 'do something' about Bill's comments, according to the web site he's not a member; IMCA therefore has no jurisdiction. If you're talking about someone else then I'm just confused. ? Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > What kills me if that the IMCA looks the other way while it's members > make a mockery of Art's rules. > > Apparently they aren't concerned too much about their public image. > Other organizations would give the boot to members who flagrantly > violate rules of public venues. Not only are the rules selectively > enforced here on the list, but apparently the IMCA follows a similar > strategy. > > > -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc From grf2 at verizon.net Fri May 1 20:21:08 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 20:21:08 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! References: Message-ID: Bill, I don't often waste precious time getting involved in such obvious drivel, but it's obvious to everyone with one exception that this non-issue has taken up enough bandwidth, delete strokes and patience of the "silent majority" of the List. You've made your point Jerry Flaherty ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill kies" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 7:07 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! I enjoy ads. Ads are the life blood of the meteorite world. Ads are educational. If people were not making money there would be so much less motivation to scour the world at their own expense. We'd have to depend on the sorry few, institutionalized characters, that would have us believe that they are the custodians of all things meteoric as they do nothing. Much like archaeologists that insist amateurs can't be sanctioned to excavate in front of the bulldosers. Ads are beautiful, once a week. GeoZ. I'm surprised at your take on this. I've never seen a rule breaker survive over at meteorobs. ---------------------------------------- > From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:03:04 -0700 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! > > > > I may be in the silent majority or minority but I actually enjoy going > thru each AD on this list. No matter if it's the same seller with ADS > several times a week. I've picked up quite a few deals offered. Perhaps > it's because I'm so new in collecting meteorites that it's fun to get new > pieces vs. the older collectors that already have everything and is tired > of hearing about it. Thanks! > > Carl > > PS. I hope you all don't kill me if there is a sudden deluge of ADs all of > a sudden! > > _________________________________________________________________ > Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. > http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail?: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri May 1 20:41:07 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 19:41:07 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! In-Reply-To: <49FB8B31.50501@meteorites.cc> References: <49FB8B31.50501@meteorites.cc> Message-ID: It's probably a poor analogy, but here goes : If someone wins the Miss America crown, they are expected to behave a certain way in public because that behavior reflects upon the Miss America institution. The same can be said for many organizations whose members interact with the public - they must uphold the expectations placed upon them by their affiliations. Furthermore, public perception often carries more weight than the actions of the person in question. I'm not one of those list members who maintains a tally sheet of who posts how many ads and when - I am not that anal. But when the issue becomes a point of contention in a public forum, those affiliated with the person in question must examine how these behaviors reflect upon the organization as a whole. Chicago Steve was not an IMCA member, AFAIK. I don't know about Mr. Cottingham. Is he a member? If not, then this point of mine is moot. If he is a member, then my original point stands - any organization concerned with it's image should ensure that it's members (representatives to the public) obey all rules of etiquette demanded by a particular venue they choose to participate in. To flaunt the rules not only reflects poorly in the individual doing it, it reflects poorly on any group or organization they represent. That's all I was trying to say. FWIW, I have no personal issue with Mr. Cottingham. He's always been square with me when we have done some minor deals. Seems like a nice guy. But his recent posting of multiple ads in defiance of the rules has caused some bickering on this list and it looks bad - for all concerned, regardless of what explanations are behind it. Perception is often more important than substance - especially when commercial enterprises are concerned. Best regards, MikeG On 5/1/09, Mark Crawford wrote: > Mike, I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. > > IMCA is IMCA, MetList is an open email forum (very lightly) moderated by > Art. They are not in any way related, other than the obvious fact that > the community is small, many IMCA members are list members, and vice versa. > > If you're suggesting that IMCA should 'do something' about Bill's > comments, according to the web site he's not a member; IMCA therefore > has no jurisdiction. If you're talking about someone else then I'm just > confused. > > ? > > Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: >> What kills me if that the IMCA looks the other way while it's members >> make a mockery of Art's rules. >> >> Apparently they aren't concerned too much about their public image. >> Other organizations would give the boot to members who flagrantly >> violate rules of public venues. Not only are the rules selectively >> enforced here on the list, but apparently the IMCA follows a similar >> strategy. >> >> >> > > > -- > Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From Impactika at aol.com Fri May 1 21:09:20 2009 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 21:09:20 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] ONE AD PER WEEK I have an idea! Message-ID: Mike, Your point is moot. Mike Cottingham is not a member of the IMCA. Neither is Steve Arnold (Chicago) and Bill Kies. The Membership List is published on the IMCA website, and regularly updated. You might want to look at it: _http://imca.cc/index.php?option=com_cb_search&task=usersList&Itemid=11_ (http://imca.cc/index.php?option=com_cb_search&task=usersList&Itemid=11) Thank you. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) ---------------------------------------------------------------- In a message dated 5/1/2009 6:41:26 PM Mountain Daylight Time, meteoritemike at gmail.com writes: It's probably a poor analogy, but here goes : If someone wins the Miss America crown, they are expected to behave a certain way in public because that behavior reflects upon the Miss America institution. The same can be said for many organizations whose members interact with the public - they must uphold the expectations placed upon them by their affiliations. Furthermore, public perception often carries more weight than the actions of the person in question. I'm not one of those list members who maintains a tally sheet of who posts how many ads and when - I am not that anal. But when the issue becomes a point of contention in a public forum, those affiliated with the person in question must examine how these behaviors reflect upon the organization as a whole. Chicago Steve was not an IMCA member, AFAIK. I don't know about Mr. Cottingham. Is he a member? If not, then this point of mine is moot. If he is a member, then my original point stands - any organization concerned with it's image should ensure that it's members (representatives to the public) obey all rules of etiquette demanded by a particular venue they choose to participate in. To flaunt the rules not only reflects poorly in the individual doing it, it reflects poorly on any group or organization they represent. That's all I was trying to say. FWIW, I have no personal issue with Mr. Cottingham. He's always been square with me when we have done some minor deals. Seems like a nice guy. But his recent posting of multiple ads in defiance of the rules has caused some bickering on this list and it looks bad - for all concerned, regardless of what explanations are behind it. Perception is often more important than substance - especially when commercial enterprises are concerned. Best regards, MikeG On 5/1/09, Mark Crawford wrote: > Mike, I don't understand what point you're trying to make here. > > IMCA is IMCA, MetList is an open email forum (very lightly) moderated by > Art. They are not in any way related, other than the obvious fact that > the community is small, many IMCA members are list members, and vice versa. > > If you're suggesting that IMCA should 'do something' about Bill's > comments, according to the web site he's not a member; IMCA therefore > has no jurisdiction. If you're talking about someone else then I'm just > confused. > > ? > > Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: >> What kills me if that the IMCA looks the other way while it's members >> make a mockery of Art's rules. >> >> Apparently they aren't concerned too much about their public image. >> Other organizations would give the boot to members who flagrantly >> violate rules of public venues. Not only are the rules selectively >> enforced here on the list, but apparently the IMCA follows a similar >> strategy. - > Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc **************Join ChristianMingle.com? FREE! Meet Christian Singles in your area. Start now! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221673648x1201419171/aol?redir=http://www.christianmingle.com/campaign.html%3Fcat%3Dadbuy%26 src%3Dplatforma%26adid%3Dfooter:050109%26newurl%3Dreg_path.html) From cynapse at charter.net Fri May 1 23:41:00 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 01 May 2009 22:41:00 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Chevrons' Are Not Evidence Of Megatsunamis In-Reply-To: <9E50DA5550FD4F14AC75805C92B0BF81@ATARIENGINE2> References: <520398.37042.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <9E50DA5550FD4F14AC75805C92B0BF81@ATARIENGINE2> Message-ID: Here's a great photo of a group of chevrons: http://www.flickr.com/photos/badastronomy/3432647881/sizes/o/ Must have been one hell of a tsunami. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/page/8/ From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Fri May 1 23:47:56 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 20:47:56 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Chevrons' Are Not Evidence Of Megatsunamis In-Reply-To: References: <520398.37042.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <9E50DA5550FD4F14AC75805C92B0BF81@ATARIENGINE2> Message-ID: <8388805eb07a5c2a70c06e0f713013db.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Hi All: Why can't these chevrons in the Mars picture just be typical sand dunes? I happened to look at the whole picture and the lower features that look like boomerangs are called barchans and are caused by wind. I happened to actually use this picture at a workshop last week! The wind blows the dust off of the high areas on the left and creates these features. Larry > Here's a great photo of a group of chevrons: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/badastronomy/3432647881/sizes/o/ > > Must have been one hell of a tsunami. > > http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/page/8/ > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From deanbessey at yahoo.com Sat May 2 02:23:33 2009 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 23:23:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD drama - an idea to solve it. - BAN BILL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <282738.38973.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com> bill kies says: "I have asked Art many times why he tolerates this stuff. It's been years now." -------------------------------------------------------- OK, how high of an IQ is required to be able to figure out that Art really doesn't care? How many times do you need to be told to be able to figure it out? A little more repetitive training required maybe? And who gave you the authority to simply declare yourself sheriff and to go on constantly spamming a thousand people with vile and personal attacks because you have something up your butt and don't like the way that somebody is running their discussion list that has absolutely nothing to do with you? Its not your list. Here is the real idea to solve the problem. You don't like the way the list is policed - so unsubscribe yourself. Nobody is forcing you to endure this misery for "years now". You just don't get it do you. That personal attack on me had nothing to do with list policies or the discussion in question but everything to do about the real problem on this list. Nobody really cares wither I am doing well or on the way to the poorhouse or what the quality of what I am selling is. If they don't like my stuff they don't buy it. It was just a personal attack that you decided that you had to slip in for no sane reason other to spread more vile on the list. Its the attacks and bitching that is pissing people off. And today only you continue to expose the list to this senseless vile. Go away, the rest of us want to talk about, buy or sell meteorites. We are not interested in your senseless vile. Go create your own discussion group and then you can do whatever you want with it and you wont have to harass a discussion group owner and the people who are a member of his discussion list for "years now". Sincerely DEAN From parkforestmet at hotmail.com Sat May 2 02:55:50 2009 From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 01:55:50 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD drama - an idea to solve it. - BAN BILL In-Reply-To: <282738.38973.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <282738.38973.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dean. I've read some of my old posts to the met-list and thought to myself, how damn stupid was that. Maybe you should do the same. ---------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 23:23:33 -0700 > From: deanbessey at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD drama - an idea to solve it. - BAN BILL > > > bill kies says: > "I have asked Art many times why he tolerates this stuff. It's been years now." > -------------------------------------------------------- > OK, how high of an IQ is required to be able to figure out that Art really doesn't care? How many times do you need to be told to be able to figure it out? A little more repetitive training required maybe? > And who gave you the authority to simply declare yourself sheriff and to go on constantly spamming a thousand people with vile and personal attacks because you have something up your butt and don't like the way that somebody is running their discussion list that has absolutely nothing to do with you? Its not your list. > Here is the real idea to solve the problem. You don't like the way the list is policed - so unsubscribe yourself. Nobody is forcing you to endure this misery for "years now". > You just don't get it do you. That personal attack on me had nothing to do with list policies or the discussion in question but everything to do about the real problem on this list. Nobody really cares wither I am doing well or on the way to the poorhouse or what the quality of what I am selling is. If they don't like my stuff they don't buy it. It was just a personal attack that you decided that you had to slip in for no sane reason other to spread more vile on the list. Its the attacks and bitching that is pissing people off. And today only you continue to expose the list to this senseless vile. > Go away, the rest of us want to talk about, buy or sell meteorites. We are not interested in your senseless vile. Go create your own discussion group and then you can do whatever you want with it and you wont have to harass a discussion group owner and the people who are a member of his discussion list for "years now". > Sincerely > DEAN > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sat May 2 07:46:32 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 07:46:32 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_2_2009.html __________________________ **************Eat Great & Lose Weight FASTER! Start the South Beach Diet Online - FREE Profile! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221822996x1201398599/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213623126%3B35100424% 3Bk) From bristolia at yahoo.com Sat May 2 09:09:36 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 06:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Solar wind and reddening of asteroid surfaces (PDF file of paper) Message-ID: <481205.11774.qm@web36205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Solar wind tans young asteroids, ESO 16/09 - Science Release, European Organisation for Astronomical Research in the Southern Hemisphere, April 22, 2009 http://www.eso.org/public/outreach/press-rel/pr-2009/pr-16-09.html The paper is: Vernazza, P., R. P. Binzel, A. Rossi, M. Fulchignoni, and M. Birlan, 2009, Solar wind as the origin of rapid reddening of asteroid surfaces. Nature. vol. 458, no. 7241, pp. 993-995, doi:10.1038/nature07956; http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v458/n7241/abs/nature07956.html The PDF file can be downloaded from: http://www.eso.org/public/outreach/press-rel/pr-2009/nature07956_proof1.pdf Young Asteroids Look Old http://www.eso.org/gallery/v/ESOPIA/illustrations/phot-16a-09-fullres.tif.html Yours, Paul H. From bristolia at yahoo.com Sat May 2 10:12:25 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 07:12:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Accountability of Authors of Scientific Papers Accountability of authors (Nautilus) http://blogs.nature.com/nautilus/2007/10/accountability_of_authors.html Author contributions audit (Nautilus) http://blogs.nature.com/nautilus/2007/11/post_12.html Authorship policies (Nature) http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v458/n7242/full/4581078a.html "We are clarifying the duties of lead authors and making author-contribution statements mandatory." Yours, Paul H. Message-ID: <268373.47959.qm@web36203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Accountability of Authors of Scientific Papers Accountability of authors (Nautilus) http://blogs.nature.com/nautilus/2007/10/accountability_of_authors.html Author contributions audit (Nautilus) http://blogs.nature.com/nautilus/2007/11/post_12.html Authorship policies (Nature) http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v458/n7242/full/4581078a.html "We are clarifying the duties of lead authors and making author-contribution statements mandatory." Yours, Paul H. From lintonius at earthlink.net Sat May 2 12:38:37 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 09:38:37 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 References: Message-ID: <21251E0959E443E6B05B972EBA560A73@D190TH71> Ooooooohh, that's lovely! And on-topic, too. ;^) I'm still trying to find my first Murchison specimen. That would certainly meet my criteria, though I'm afraid it would exceed my modest budget. It's such a treat to look at though. Linton ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:46 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_2_2009.html > > __________________________ From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat May 2 12:56:38 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 09:56:38 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Retrograde Asteroid Found Message-ID: <49FC7B46.8060401@meteoritesusa.com> A new asteroid was found April 29th orbiting the sun backwards. Calculating the orbit of the new asteroid is difficult because observational errors could cause a mis-projected orbit. This asteroid was close enough Observational Data: http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/mpec/K09/K09J04.html Article: Nearby asteroid found orbiting sun backwards 23:50 01 May 2009 by Jeff Hecht For similar stories, visit the Solar System and Comets and Asteroids Topic Guides The discovery of a 2- to 3-kilometre-wide asteroid in an orbit that goes backwards has set astronomers scratching their heads. It comes closer to Earth than any other object in a 'retrograde' orbit, and astronomers think they should have spotted it before. The object, called 2009 HC82, was discovered by the Catalina Sky Survey in Arizona on the morning of 29 April. From observations of its position by five different groups, Sonia Keys of the International Astronomical Union's Minor Planet Center calculated it orbits the sun every 3.39 years on a path that ventures within 3.5 million km of the Earth's orbit. Combined with its size, that makes 2009 HC82 a potentially hazardous asteroid. What's really unusual is that the calculated orbit is inclined 155? to the plane of the Earth's orbit. That means that as it orbits the Sun, it actually travels backwards compared to the planets. It is only the 20th asteroid known in a retrograde orbit, a very rare group. None of the others comes as close to the Earth. SOURCE: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17073-nearby-asteroid-found-orbiting-sun-backwards.html -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA 904-236-5394 From GeoZay at aol.com Sat May 2 13:02:11 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 13:02:11 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] New Retrograde Asteroid Found Message-ID: >>A new asteroid was found April 29th orbiting the sun backwards. << So it's a "Contrary"...should fit right in with this list. :O) geozay **************Eat Great & Lose Weight FASTER! Start the South Beach Diet Online - FREE Profile! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221822996x1201398599/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213623126%3B35100424% 3Bk) From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Sat May 2 13:37:55 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 10:37:55 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 Message-ID: Yes, it is a marvelous slice and a very clear and sharp photo. That's the problem of my tiny micros. I have some small, affordable fragments, but I lose sight of the bigger picture. Now, if I can just smell one for once... Carl Linton wrote: >Ooooooohh, that's lovely!... _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has a new way to see what's up with your friends. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_WhatsNew1_052009 From waltbranch at bellsouth.net Sat May 2 13:55:40 2009 From: waltbranch at bellsouth.net (Walter Branch) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 13:55:40 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 References: <21251E0959E443E6B05B972EBA560A73@D190TH71> Message-ID: <4123E90AEDC34F46B094E9CFB17A4D34@Walter> Hello Linton and List, That is a nice photo of Murchison. I have a very nice piece of Murchison ending on ebay next Tuesday evening: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=130301889674 as well a micromounts of Weston, Tagish Lake, Zag, L'Aigle, etc. All have impeccable provenance as listed for each specimen. -Walter Branch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linton Rohr" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2,2009 > Ooooooohh, that's lovely! And on-topic, too. ;^) > I'm still trying to find my first Murchison specimen. > That would certainly meet my criteria, though I'm afraid it would exceed > my modest budget. > It's such a treat to look at though. > Linton > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:46 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, > 2009 > > >> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_2_2009.html >> >> __________________________ > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sat May 2 13:59:07 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 19:59:07 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] TAMEDAGHT PHENOMENA - more enigmatical examples Message-ID: <001701c9cb4f$b0bb2740$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Good day list members, after the digressions of the last days, how about turning back to meteorites? Stefan made meanwhile some photos of more of these baffling "products" of the Tamdaght fall. As implausible they might seem to be, they do exist! Here we have some examples, which demonstrate hopefully quite well the different forms of appearances of this strange objects, which contains real fusion crust; preserved fragments of the meteorite with and without crust; a bubbly material looking like an impact-melt and some glassy melt(?). In that piece you can observe without doubt lots of true fusion crust, rounded and ball-shaped as it almost would be a conglomerate incorporating tiny individuals. To the right some of the foamy material and some of that glassy "melt": http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tamdaght-melt1.jpg The other side reveals that the piece is composed of so many tiny fragments, sometimes covered with fusion crust. Sticking or "glued" together. http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tamdaght-melt2.jpg Here a even more striking example, for this strange composition, where numerous and crustless sharp meteorite fragments adhere to each other: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tamdaght-melt4.jpg Well, best meets the word the gentleman, who initially presented us that material, the appearance, when he described it as "couscous". Back, with some crust and that vesicular material with the large bubbles, which we know in the field of meteorites only from impact melts: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tamdaght-melt5.jpg There a somewhat coarser part of the conglomerate. With light-coloured fragments of the meteorite... http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tamdaght-melt3.jpg Last example: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tamdaght-melt6.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tamdaght-melt7.jpg These "coglomerates" btw. are not very friable or crumbly, hence not simply condensed fragments, glueing together through the mechanical pressure of an impact with normal fall velocities. (Nor any humidity was involved, hence no dried dirt is the gluing agent). Amazing, isn't it? And there the problem starts, we have these samples, but how to explain the formation? Tamdaght, after all we know so far, was a "normal" meteorite fall. The pieces retrieved, fragments and entire individuals, show no exceptional features, especially regarding fusion crust, which would indicate any uncommon event. Nothing points to a different course of the event, as we know from the other stone falls. Hence it was no hypervelocity impact, fragmentations in air must have happened within the usual parameters, the stones felt with normal resulting, terrestrial velocities. Neither any signs of an impact with still partially cosmic speed at the impact site are found. Such a fall shall not create any melts, glasses or shock effect while impact. And though, there are these strange samples. I personally am an adherer of "cold falls". I don't believe in stones being remarkably hot hitting the ground, especially not so hot, that they could melt or fuse from their temperatures of their surfaces the medium they hit. Well, Nels' idea, that ablated material was following the backside of a meteorid, quasi in a vacuum tunnel, I can't imagine. (having said, that I'm no expert...) ... would suppose, that the speed the meteorid owns in that phase of flight, where its surface isn't directly ablated anylonger but melting wouldn't be fast enough to create a vacuum-like slip stream? But especially not, after the meteorid has fully lost its initial speed and it passes into normal fall velocity, travelling still several miles in the cold Sea of air, before it hits the ground with the speed of a racing car. Hence hot, the material couldn't have arrived, - rewelded from the effluent melt in flight - that can't explain, why there are so many intact meteorite fragments preserved in these specimens. Perhaps Stefan's idea could carry on the discussion? He points to his observation, that on the backside of oriented individuals, sometimes small fragments accumulate, like on the back of this Bassikonou from his collection: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/bassi-orin.jpg But the problem with the impact-melt looking material inbetween the fragments remains, as extremely high pressures are necessary to create impact melts. If one has to work with in-air-collisions..... Fact is, that material is absolutely unique. We're not aware, whether similar material was found with other stone falls and might it remain inexplicable for a longer while, we think, it is well worth a profound research. Best Regards, Martin Altmann & Stefan Ralew Chladni's Heirs Munich - Berlin Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/ From dieter-heinlein at t-online.de Sat May 2 14:05:07 2009 From: dieter-heinlein at t-online.de (Dieter Heinlein) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 19:05:07 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 References: <21251E0959E443E6B05B972EBA560A73@D190TH71> Message-ID: <5AC579C89CAC4A88B055B987AC4F7F0C@AMD3500> Hi Linton, you could check out my web site. There are still a few nice fragments of Murchison left on www.meteorites.de/sale or go directly to the sale page: http://www.meteorites.homepage.t-online.de/sale.htm Dieter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linton Rohr" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2,2009 > Ooooooohh, that's lovely! And on-topic, too. ;^) > I'm still trying to find my first Murchison specimen. > That would certainly meet my criteria, though I'm afraid it would exceed my > modest budget. > It's such a treat to look at though. > Linton > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:46 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 > > >> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_2_2009.html >> >> __________________________ > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cdtucson at cox.net Sat May 2 14:54:47 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 11:54:47 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] TAMEDAGHT PHENOMENA - more enigmatical examples In-Reply-To: <001701c9cb4f$b0bb2740$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <20090502145447.4TKUH.45038.imail@fed1rmwml33> Martin and list, "Well, Nel's idea, that ablated material was following the backside of a meteorid, quasi in a vacuum tunnel, I can't imagine. " I am certainly no expert either but, this point Nel makes brings to mind a theory about the Carancas fall that sounds similar. During the time of the Carancas fall someone posted ( I believe it may have been Jan) that they had a fully crusted example. Well, I have three more such examples. Apparently these too are very rare. It was suggested to me by a Russian Scientist ( I lost her name for the moment) that this may suggest that these (now four) individual falls did fall in a sort of "swarm" and not as a single meteorite after all. She suggested just as Nel does now that these road piggy back with the big one in a vaccum. To her this was the only way to explain it given that they also ended up landing in the same general area as the bigger one that exploded on impact. You would think smaller ones don't travel as far. On the other theory, as I recall extreme heat upon impact was never totally ruled out either with Carancas. As the water in well did boil for reasons yet unproven beyond doubt. In sum, I would like to thank you Martin and Aziz as well for not rejecting this material as many others would have. And for the great pics. This is very cool stuff. My two cents. Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 ---- Martin Altmann wrote: > Good day list members, > > after the digressions of the last days, how about turning back to > meteorites? > > Stefan made meanwhile some photos of more of these baffling "products" of > the Tamdaght fall. > As implausible they might seem to be, they do exist! > > Here we have some examples, which demonstrate hopefully quite well the > different forms of appearances of this strange objects, which contains > real fusion crust; preserved fragments of the meteorite with and without > crust; a bubbly material looking like an impact-melt and some glassy > melt(?). > > > In that piece you can observe without doubt lots of true fusion crust, > rounded and ball-shaped as it almost would be a conglomerate incorporating > tiny individuals. To the right some of the foamy material and some of that > glassy "melt": > http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tamdaght-melt1.jpg > > > The other side reveals that the piece is composed of so many tiny fragments, > sometimes covered with fusion crust. Sticking or "glued" together. > http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tamdaght-melt2.jpg > > > Here a even more striking example, for this strange composition, > where numerous and crustless sharp meteorite fragments adhere to each other: > http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tamdaght-melt4.jpg > > Well, best meets the word the gentleman, who initially presented us that > material, the appearance, when he described it as "couscous". > > Back, with some crust and that vesicular material with the large bubbles, > which we know in the field of meteorites only from impact melts: > http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tamdaght-melt5.jpg > > > There a somewhat coarser part of the conglomerate. With light-coloured > fragments of the meteorite... > http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tamdaght-melt3.jpg > > > Last example: > > http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tamdaght-melt6.jpg > > http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tamdaght-melt7.jpg > > These "coglomerates" btw. are not very friable or crumbly, > hence not simply condensed fragments, glueing together through the > mechanical pressure of an impact with normal fall velocities. > (Nor any humidity was involved, hence no dried dirt is the gluing agent). > > > > Amazing, isn't it? > And there the problem starts, we have these samples, but how to explain the > formation? > > Tamdaght, after all we know so far, was a "normal" meteorite fall. The > pieces retrieved, fragments and entire individuals, show no exceptional > features, especially regarding fusion crust, which would indicate any > uncommon event. > Nothing points to a different course of the event, as we know from the other > stone falls. > Hence it was no hypervelocity impact, fragmentations in air must have > happened within the usual parameters, the stones felt with normal resulting, > terrestrial velocities. > Neither any signs of an impact with still partially cosmic speed at the > impact site are found. > > Such a fall shall not create any melts, glasses or shock effect while > impact. > > And though, there are these strange samples. > > > I personally am an adherer of "cold falls". I don't believe in stones being > remarkably hot hitting the ground, especially not so hot, that they could > melt or fuse from their temperatures of their surfaces the medium they hit. > > > Well, Nels' idea, that ablated material was following the backside of a > meteorid, quasi in a vacuum tunnel, I can't imagine. > (having said, that I'm no expert...) > ... would suppose, that the speed the meteorid owns in that phase of flight, > where its surface isn't directly ablated anylonger but melting wouldn't be > fast enough to create a vacuum-like slip stream? > But especially not, after the meteorid has fully lost its initial speed and > it passes into normal fall velocity, travelling still several miles in the > cold Sea of air, before it hits the ground with the speed of a racing car. > Hence hot, the material couldn't have arrived, > - rewelded from the effluent melt in flight - that can't explain, why there > are so many intact meteorite fragments preserved in these specimens. > > > Perhaps Stefan's idea could carry on the discussion? > He points to his observation, that on the backside of oriented individuals, > sometimes small fragments accumulate, > like on the back of this Bassikonou from his collection: > http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/bassi-orin.jpg > > But the problem with the impact-melt looking material inbetween the > fragments remains, > as extremely high pressures are necessary to create impact melts. > If one has to work with in-air-collisions..... > > > Fact is, that material is absolutely unique. > We're not aware, whether similar material was found with other stone falls > and might it remain inexplicable for a longer while, > we think, it is well worth a profound research. > > > Best Regards, > Martin Altmann & Stefan Ralew > > > > Chladni's Heirs > Munich - Berlin > Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors > > http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From lintonius at earthlink.net Sat May 2 15:04:45 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 12:04:45 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 References: <21251E0959E443E6B05B972EBA560A73@D190TH71> <54F1A12A60D34B28918E6D76FF084C11@PiePC> Message-ID: Thank you, Arlene! You're very kind. And helpful. They have another nice 5.15g piece, but also a 1.14g fragment that I have inquired into. I must say though, your photography is better than theirs! :^) I like to see what I'm getting when I pay that much per gram. Linton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arlene Schlazer" To: "Linton Rohr" Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2,2009 > Hello Linton, > This may be one of the smaller pieces in my collection but truly has an > amazing story to tell....fossilized bacteria, many of the building blocks > to life, etc....quite fascinating. > > Here's the link to where I found the Murchison....There is still a smaller > fragment available if you'd like....take a look: > http://www.meteorlab.com/METEORLAB2001dev/offering21o.htm > > Best regards, > Arlene Schlazer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Linton Rohr" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 9:38 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May > 2,2009 > > >> Ooooooohh, that's lovely! And on-topic, too. ;^) >> I'm still trying to find my first Murchison specimen. >> That would certainly meet my criteria, though I'm afraid it would exceed >> my modest budget. >> It's such a treat to look at though. >> Linton >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:46 AM >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, >> 2009 >> >> >>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_2_2009.html >>> >>> __________________________ >> >> ______________________________________________ From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sat May 2 15:13:08 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 12:13:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] TAMEDAGHT PHENOMENA - more enigmatical examples In-Reply-To: <001701c9cb4f$b0bb2740$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <727690.62655.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Certainly bizarre. Have you ruled out natural asphalt aka pitch? In pure form under desert sun it would be near liquid and when cold it shows a glass-like fracture. For it to be terrestrially formed as a conglomerate it seems certainly to have been reworked and consolidated from an original strown field. Elton From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat May 2 15:15:48 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 12:15:48 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites For Sale Photo Request Message-ID: <49FC9BE4.1070907@meteoritesusa.com> Hi all, I unfortunately wasted my ad for the week yesterday by making a silly mistake. There were two very nice lots I did not include photos links for that I should have linked to. Instead of just posting my ad again I'll ask that those who wish to see those missing photos contact me OFF-LIST to receive an email with the list of items in yesterday's sale. I'll send them to you complete with ALL the photo links this time. For the trouble of this extra email take 5% OFF of the marked prices. Contact me immediately as I may be heading to the field and won't be able to answer emails in the middle of the desert. For the fastest response please call: 904-236-5394 ;) Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA 904-236-5394 From lintonius at earthlink.net Sat May 2 15:20:38 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 12:20:38 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 References: <21251E0959E443E6B05B972EBA560A73@D190TH71> <4123E90AEDC34F46B094E9CFB17A4D34@Walter> Message-ID: <826C093486854F298593A8B8E04A0EDE@D190TH71> Thank you, Walter. I already had that one in my watch list. :^) Linton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Branch" To: "Linton Rohr" Cc: Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2,2009 > Hello Linton and List, > > That is a nice photo of Murchison. > > I have a very nice piece of Murchison ending on ebay next Tuesday evening: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=130301889674 > > as well a micromounts of Weston, Tagish Lake, Zag, L'Aigle, etc. > > All have impeccable provenance as listed for each specimen. > > -Walter Branch > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Linton Rohr" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 12:38 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May > 2,2009 > > >> Ooooooohh, that's lovely! And on-topic, too. ;^) >> I'm still trying to find my first Murchison specimen. >> That would certainly meet my criteria, though I'm afraid it would exceed >> my modest budget. >> It's such a treat to look at though. >> Linton >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:46 AM >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, >> 2009 >> >> >>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_2_2009.html >>> >>> __________________________ >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > From lintonius at earthlink.net Sat May 2 15:33:02 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 12:33:02 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 References: <21251E0959E443E6B05B972EBA560A73@D190TH71> <5AC579C89CAC4A88B055B987AC4F7F0C@AMD3500> Message-ID: Thank you. Dieter. You're 1.17g piece looks interesting. Please contact me off-list with pricing in USD. Linton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dieter Heinlein" To: "Linton Rohr" Cc: Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2,2009 > Hi Linton, > > you could check out my web site. There are still a few nice fragments of > Murchison left on www.meteorites.de/sale > or go directly to the sale page: > http://www.meteorites.homepage.t-online.de/sale.htm > > Dieter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Linton Rohr" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 5:38 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May > 2,2009 > > >> Ooooooohh, that's lovely! And on-topic, too. ;^) >> I'm still trying to find my first Murchison specimen. >> That would certainly meet my criteria, though I'm afraid it would exceed >> my modest budget. >> It's such a treat to look at though. >> Linton >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 4:46 AM >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, >> 2009 >> >> >>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_2_2009.html >>> >>> __________________________ >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sat May 2 15:47:53 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 12:47:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] TEST - Please disregard Message-ID: <24997.17649.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> ...cant post again... From p.marmet at sunrise.ch Sat May 2 15:51:50 2009 From: p.marmet at sunrise.ch (Peter Marmet) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 21:51:50 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions / Twannberg / TS Message-ID: <871799a20905021251y24de91bfv1190714edc8b5328@mail.gmail.com> Hello All, I have a few auctions ending in about one day: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZpema9 Cheers, Peter BTW1: I have a 0.46g full slice of the TWANNBERG V mass (TKW: 14.1g) for sale. Twannberg (Switzerland) is a IIG iron. I will add a copy of the analysis by the Nat. Hist. Museum in Bern. Offers above $ 200.00 are welcome until tomorrow Sunday evening (20:00 GMT). BTW2: I also updated my Thin Section Page: http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/id12.html Peter Marmet Bern, Switzerland IMCA #2747 p.marmet at mysunrise.ch http://www.marmet-meteorites.com/ ebay: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZpema9 From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Sat May 2 16:50:51 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 13:50:51 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Retrograde Asteroid Found In-Reply-To: <49FC7B46.8060401@meteoritesusa.com> References: <49FC7B46.8060401@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <7683bc86977c49a98e3c318cb27d078e.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu> Eric: This sounds like a good candidate for an extinct comet! The big question is, why it has not been seen before. I am not a dynamicist, so I do not know if a close encounter by an asteroid to, say the Earth, could put a "normal" asteroid into a retrograde orbit. Larry > A new asteroid was found April 29th orbiting the sun backwards. > Calculating the orbit of the new asteroid is difficult because > observational errors could cause a mis-projected orbit. This asteroid > was close enough > > Observational Data: http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/mpec/K09/K09J04.html > > Article: > > Nearby asteroid found orbiting sun backwards > > 23:50 01 May 2009 by Jeff Hecht > For similar stories, visit the Solar System and Comets and Asteroids > Topic Guides > The discovery of a 2- to 3-kilometre-wide asteroid in an orbit that goes > backwards has set astronomers scratching their heads. It comes closer to > Earth than any other object in a 'retrograde' orbit, and astronomers > think they should have spotted it before. > > The object, called 2009 HC82, was discovered by the Catalina Sky Survey > in Arizona on the morning of 29 April. > > From observations of its position by five different groups, Sonia Keys > of the International Astronomical Union's Minor Planet Center calculated > it orbits the sun every 3.39 years on a path that ventures within 3.5 > million km of the Earth's orbit. Combined with its size, that makes 2009 > HC82 a potentially hazardous asteroid. > > What's really unusual is that the calculated orbit is inclined 155? to > the plane of the Earth's orbit. That means that as it orbits the Sun, it > actually travels backwards compared to the planets. It is only the 20th > asteroid known in a retrograde orbit, a very rare group. None of the > others comes as close to the Earth. > > SOURCE: > http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17073-nearby-asteroid-found-orbiting-sun-backwards.html > > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From lgarvie at cox.net Sat May 2 17:52:44 2009 From: lgarvie at cox.net (Laurence Garvie) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 14:52:44 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] black diamonds from Canyon Diablo Message-ID: For those who are interested, my colleague and I recently worked on the black diamonds from the Canyon Diablo meteorite. The abstract can be downloaded at www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/1346.pdf In summary, they are not pure diamond but a combination of diamond, lonsdaleite (hexagonal diamond), and graphite. We also found areas that were neither diamond or lonsdaleite. Laurence ----------------------------------------------------------- Laurence A.J. Garvie Collections Manager Center for Meteorite Studies School of Earth and Space Exploration Arizona State University Tempe AZ 85287-1404 USA phone: 480 965 3361 fax: 480 965 8102 email: lgarvie at asu.edu Weblinks: School of Earth and Space Exploration: http://sese.asu.edu/ Center for Meteorite Studies: http://meteorites.asu.edu/ ----------------------------------------------------------- From mlblood at cox.net Sat May 2 18:10:16 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 15:10:16 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nice photo - anyone know where any Murchison can be Purchased??? Please contact off list. Thanks, Michael > From: > Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 07:46:32 EDT > To: Meteorite List > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_2_2009.html > > __________________________ > > **************Eat Great & Lose Weight FASTER! Start the South Beach Diet > Online - FREE Profile! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221822996x1201398599/aol?redir=http: > %2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213623126%3B35100424% > 3Bk) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Sat May 2 18:30:11 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 18:30:11 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] black diamonds from Canyon Diablo Message-ID: Hi Laurence, Great paper! Thanks for sharing. I had a related observation that I thought you might be able to shed some light on. The EL3 Enstatite NWA 2965 (and a whole lot more names/numbers) has small graphite inclusions. I notice them most in the "Blue Phase". I have found that these inclusions fool an electronic diamond tester. Other meteorite graphite does not (At least what I have tried). The grains are to small for me to resolve on my optical microscope, even at a magnification of 1800X. Is this likely just a fluke of the testing (Thermal conductivity), or are there likely to be micro diamonds in the material at a level sufficient to fool the tester? The inclusions are soft and can be easily gouged out with a metal tool. Thanks, Tom Phillips In a message dated 5/2/2009 3:53:06 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, lgarvie at cox.net writes: For those who are interested, my colleague and I recently worked on the black diamonds from the Canyon Diablo meteorite. The abstract can be downloaded at www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/1346.pdf In summary, they are not pure diamond but a combination of diamond, lonsdaleite (hexagonal diamond), and graphite. We also found areas that were neither diamond or lonsdaleite. Laurence ----------------------------------------------------------- Laurence A.J. Garvie Collections Manager Center for Meteorite Studies School of Earth and Space Exploration Arizona State University Tempe AZ 85287-1404 USA phone: 480 965 3361 fax: 480 965 8102 email: lgarvie at asu.edu Weblinks: School of Earth and Space Exploration: http://sese.asu.edu/ Center for Meteorite Studies: http://meteorites.asu.edu/ ----------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the Radio Toolbar! (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003) From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat May 2 19:02:45 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 18:02:45 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dieter Heinlein has some Murchison. I got my sample from him and I am very happy with it. :) On 5/2/09, Michael Blood wrote: > Nice photo - anyone know where any Murchison can be > Purchased??? > Please contact off list. > Thanks, Michael > > >> From: >> Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 07:46:32 EDT >> To: Meteorite List >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, >> 2009 >> >> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_2_2009.html >> >> __________________________ >> >> **************Eat Great & Lose Weight FASTER! Start the South Beach Diet >> Online - FREE Profile! >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221822996x1201398599/aol?redir=http: >> %2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213623126%3B35100424% >> 3Bk) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Sat May 2 19:27:56 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 16:27:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] TAMEDAGHT PHENOMENA - more enigmatical examples Message-ID: <614422.30944.qm@web62005.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hi all, well explained martin, my English doesn't allow me to explain as much as you do, i think Stefan theories is the same as nelson theories , in fact nelson based his theories?on an observation of an oriented stone he has, i think when? the stone burn it shattered in 1000's tiny meteorite than they glue together and they are detached from the bigger stone and make a special meteorite, here you can observe the same phenomena but not as much as on tamedaght, on a 600 gr oriented stones .. http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/ thanks aziz habibi ?habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From peterscherff at rcn.com Sat May 2 22:19:12 2009 From: peterscherff at rcn.com (Peter Scherff) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 22:19:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <007b01c9cb95$8d16d820$a7448860$@com> Hi, I used to buy it from Michael Casper. I wonder were his stock of it is now? Thanks, Peter -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Blood Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 6:10 PM To: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 Nice photo - anyone know where any Murchison can be Purchased??? Please contact off list. Thanks, Michael > From: > Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 07:46:32 EDT > To: Meteorite List > Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_2_2009.html > > __________________________ > > **************Eat Great & Lose Weight FASTER! Start the South Beach Diet > Online - FREE Profile! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221822996x1201398599/aol?redir=htt p: > %2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213623126%3B35100424% > 3Bk) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Sun May 3 05:46:44 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 10:46:44 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090503104644.JC6BN.887081.root@web04-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi All, Murhison is listed as having a TKW of over 100kg and yet there is very little available for collectors...did most of it end up in labs or are collectors and dealers just holding on to this precious material. Graham Ensor, UK ---- Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > Dieter Heinlein has some Murchison. I got my sample from him and I am > very happy with it. :) > > > On 5/2/09, Michael Blood wrote: > > Nice photo - anyone know where any Murchison can be > > Purchased??? > > Please contact off list. > > Thanks, Michael > > > > > >> From: > >> Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 07:46:32 EDT > >> To: Meteorite List > >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, > >> 2009 > >> > >> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_2_2009.html > >> > >> __________________________ > >> > >> **************Eat Great & Lose Weight FASTER! Start the South Beach Diet > >> Online - FREE Profile! > >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221822996x1201398599/aol?redir=http: > >> %2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B213623126%3B35100424% > >> 3Bk) > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mark at meteorites.cc Sun May 3 05:51:44 2009 From: mark at meteorites.cc (Mark Crawford) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 10:51:44 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 2, 2009 In-Reply-To: <20090503104644.JC6BN.887081.root@web04-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> References: <20090503104644.JC6BN.887081.root@web04-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Message-ID: <49FD6930.4060305@meteorites.cc> A good-sized specimen from the NHM London: http://meteorites.cc/nhm-images/bv/murch3.jpg M ensoramanda at ntlworld.com wrote: > Hi All, > > Murhison is listed as having a TKW of over 100kg and yet there is very little available for collectors...did most of it end up in labs or are collectors and dealers just holding on to this precious material. > > Graham Ensor, UK > > -- Mark's Meteorite Pages: http://meteorites.cc From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sun May 3 09:39:51 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 09:39:51 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 3, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_3_2009.html __________________________ **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222376998x1201454298/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=M ay5309AvgfooterNO62) From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sun May 3 13:20:26 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 03 May 2009 17:20:26 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Murchison TKW (was RFSPD, May 2, 2009) Message-ID: Hello Graham and List, Graham wondered: "Murchison is listed as having a TKW of over 100 kg and yet there is very little available for collectors...did most of it end up in labs or are collectors and dealers just holding on to this precious material." If the information below (Source: Catalogue of Meteorites) is still valid, there is only about 18 kilograms available for collectors around the globe and that is *not* very much for a carbonaceous chondrite and a witnessed fall. 40.3 kg Field Museum for National History, Chicago, 30.0 kg National Museum, Washington, 05.4 kg Melbourne Museum, Victoria, Australia, 04.6 kg Arizona State University, Tempe, 01.9 kg, Los Angeles, Univ. of California. Hope this helps, Bernd (Happy owner of 6.9 grams from David New + thin section from Bob Haag) From tricottetcoll at live.com Sun May 3 13:30:38 2009 From: tricottetcoll at live.com (The Tricottet Collection) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 17:30:38 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Chiang Khan, Holbrook, Pultusk & others Message-ID: Dear list members, I have a few stones available for sale (or trade): * Camel Donga, 7.1g (with flow lines) - $30/g * Chiang Khan, 8.8g - $75/g * Holbrook, 8.2g - $30/g * Pultusk, 24.9g - $12/g * Tenham, 50.04g - $5/g * Thuathe, 58.3g - $4/g Kind regards, ArnaudM _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_BR_life_in_synch_052009 From cynapse at charter.net Sun May 3 19:17:01 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 18:17:01 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] No, not THAT Farmer... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090503/EDM_meteorite_090503/20090503/?hub=CalgaryHome Farmer to hand over 13 kg meteorite to researchers Updated: Sun May. 03 2009 13:46:26 Sonia Sunger, ctvedmonton.ca Scientists and volunteers who've been searching for pieces of the 10-ton Buzzard Coulee meteorite since last fall will soon get their hands on a 13 kilogram fragment found by a farmer. Hundreds of fragments have been gathered by planetary scientist Dr. Alan Hildebrand, graduate student Ellen Milley and volunteers since the meteorite fell in a rural area near Lloydminster Nov. 20, 2008. Fragments gathered from this find have now broken the record for meteorites recovered from a single incident and the largest piece found to date will be donated to researchers on Monday. Local landowner Alex Mitchell found a 13 kg meteorite and will be handing over his find to Hildebrand and Milley on Monday. From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun May 3 19:02:12 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 18:02:12 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite w/ the oldest terrestrial age? Message-ID: Hi List! Basic question here : Which meteorite has the oldest terrestrial age? (if it's a meteorite not commonly available, then what is the oldest available specimen?) Thanks! MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun May 3 19:40:41 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 18:40:41 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite w/ the oldest terrestrial age? In-Reply-To: <0E650F8A61DA4708B0A8C57A52F1AC22@lunatic> References: <0E650F8A61DA4708B0A8C57A52F1AC22@lunatic> Message-ID: Thanks Norbert and Bob! :) Lake Murray is now on my list of specimens to acquire. Best regards, MikeG On 5/3/09, Norbert Classen wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Have a look at my website charts for the "oldest" meteorites: > > http://www.meteoris.de/basics/charts3.html > > For non-fossil meteorites it would be lunar Dhofar 025 (for the available > specimens, i.e. non-Antarctic samples). If you opt for fossil meteorites > it's sure the Lake Murray iron as the Swedish fossils have never been for > sale. > > Best, > Norbert > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Galactic > Stone & Ironworks > Gesendet: Montag, 4. Mai 2009 01:02 > An: Meteorite List > Betreff: [meteorite-list] Meteorite w/ the oldest terrestrial age? > > Hi List! > > Basic question here : > > Which meteorite has the oldest terrestrial age? > > (if it's a meteorite not commonly available, then what is the oldest > available specimen?) > > Thanks! > > MikeG > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From mdavidhardy at yahoo.com Sun May 3 19:51:14 2009 From: mdavidhardy at yahoo.com (David Hardy) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 16:51:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] test Message-ID: <452790.54270.qm@web110109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> It's quiet, just testing. From stanleygregr at yahoo.com Sun May 3 20:10:07 2009 From: stanleygregr at yahoo.com (greg stanley) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 17:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] No, not THAT Farmer... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <673642.22003.qm@web52310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> What's your point? Darren Garrison wrote: > http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090503/EDM_meteorite_090503/20090503/?hub=CalgaryHome > Farmer to hand over 13 kg meteorite to researchers > Updated: Sun May. 03 2009 13:46:26 > Sonia Sunger, ctvedmonton.ca > Scientists and volunteers who've been searching for pieces of the 10-ton Buzzard > Coulee meteorite since last fall will soon get their hands on a 13 kilogram > fragment found by a farmer. > Hundreds of fragments have been gathered by planetary scientist Dr. Alan > Hildebrand, graduate student Ellen Milley and volunteers since the meteorite > fell in a rural area near Lloydminster Nov. 20, 2008. > Fragments gathered from this find have now broken the record for meteorites > recovered from a single incident and the largest piece found to date will be > donated to researchers on Monday. > Local landowner Alex Mitchell found a 13 kg meteorite and will be handing over > his find to Hildebrand and Milley on Monday. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From stanleygregr at yahoo.com Sun May 3 20:10:56 2009 From: stanleygregr at yahoo.com (greg stanley) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 17:10:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] No, not THAT Farmer... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <875856.16478.qm@web52311.mail.re2.yahoo.com> What's your point? Darren Garrison wrote: > http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090503/EDM_meteorite_090503/20090503/?hub=CalgaryHome > Farmer to hand over 13 kg meteorite to researchers > Updated: Sun May. 03 2009 13:46:26 > Sonia Sunger, ctvedmonton.ca > Scientists and volunteers who've been searching for pieces of the 10-ton Buzzard > Coulee meteorite since last fall will soon get their hands on a 13 kilogram > fragment found by a farmer. > Hundreds of fragments have been gathered by planetary scientist Dr. Alan > Hildebrand, graduate student Ellen Milley and volunteers since the meteorite > fell in a rural area near Lloydminster Nov. 20, 2008. > Fragments gathered from this find have now broken the record for meteorites > recovered from a single incident and the largest piece found to date will be > donated to researchers on Monday. > Local landowner Alex Mitchell found a 13 kg meteorite and will be handing over > his find to Hildebrand and Milley on Monday. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From midwest at meteorman.org Sun May 3 20:12:18 2009 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 19:12:18 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite w/ the oldest terrestrial age? References: <0E650F8A61DA4708B0A8C57A52F1AC22@lunatic> Message-ID: <1C6CE3BB64B44D5395DF329D39FCFD9F@hal> Hi Mike, Lake Murray has always been one of my favorite meteorites, be sure to read more information about Lake Murray http://www.meteorman.org/Lake_Murray.htm Best Regards, Tim Heitz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: Cc: "Meteorite List" Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite w/ the oldest terrestrial age? Thanks Norbert and Bob! :) Lake Murray is now on my list of specimens to acquire. Best regards, MikeG On 5/3/09, Norbert Classen wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Have a look at my website charts for the "oldest" meteorites: > > http://www.meteoris.de/basics/charts3.html > > For non-fossil meteorites it would be lunar Dhofar 025 (for the available > specimens, i.e. non-Antarctic samples). If you opt for fossil meteorites > it's sure the Lake Murray iron as the Swedish fossils have never been for > sale. > > Best, > Norbert > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Galactic > Stone & Ironworks > Gesendet: Montag, 4. Mai 2009 01:02 > An: Meteorite List > Betreff: [meteorite-list] Meteorite w/ the oldest terrestrial age? > > Hi List! > > Basic question here : > > Which meteorite has the oldest terrestrial age? > > (if it's a meteorite not commonly available, then what is the oldest > available specimen?) > > Thanks! > > MikeG > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cynapse at charter.net Sun May 3 21:28:02 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sun, 03 May 2009 20:28:02 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] No, not THAT Farmer... In-Reply-To: <673642.22003.qm@web52310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <673642.22003.qm@web52310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <43hsv4l4sncoska41214758vnq7ho4sea8@4ax.com> On Sun, 3 May 2009 17:10:07 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >What's your point? > What ampersand pound 39 semicolon s YOUR point? From wpiatek at indy.rr.com Sun May 3 20:37:59 2009 From: wpiatek at indy.rr.com (Wendy Piatek) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 20:37:59 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite w/ the oldest terrestrial age? In-Reply-To: <1C6CE3BB64B44D5395DF329D39FCFD9F@hal> References: <0E650F8A61DA4708B0A8C57A52F1AC22@lunatic> <1C6CE3BB64B44D5395DF329D39FCFD9F@hal> Message-ID: <6A5900B1EB3F49828953A40C218CFA32@JayPC> I have a beautiful 214g partslice like Tim's that is available. Please email offlist with offers. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Heitz" To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" ; Cc: "Meteorite List" Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite w/ the oldest terrestrial age? Hi Mike, Lake Murray has always been one of my favorite meteorites, be sure to read more information about Lake Murray http://www.meteorman.org/Lake_Murray.htm Best Regards, Tim Heitz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: Cc: "Meteorite List" Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 6:40 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite w/ the oldest terrestrial age? Thanks Norbert and Bob! :) Lake Murray is now on my list of specimens to acquire. Best regards, MikeG On 5/3/09, Norbert Classen wrote: > Hi Mike, > > Have a look at my website charts for the "oldest" meteorites: > > http://www.meteoris.de/basics/charts3.html > > For non-fossil meteorites it would be lunar Dhofar 025 (for the available > specimens, i.e. non-Antarctic samples). If you opt for fossil meteorites > it's sure the Lake Murray iron as the Swedish fossils have never been for > sale. > > Best, > Norbert > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Galactic > Stone & Ironworks > Gesendet: Montag, 4. Mai 2009 01:02 > An: Meteorite List > Betreff: [meteorite-list] Meteorite w/ the oldest terrestrial age? > > Hi List! > > Basic question here : > > Which meteorite has the oldest terrestrial age? > > (if it's a meteorite not commonly available, then what is the oldest > available specimen?) > > Thanks! > > MikeG > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Mon May 4 00:36:12 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 00:36:12 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 4, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_4_2009.html __________________________ **************2009 3 Free CREDIT SCORES: See Your 3 Credit Scores from All 3 Bureaus FREE! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221797372x1201397989/aol?redir=https:%2F%2Fwww.freescore.com%2FOffers%2FStart%2FFreeCreditRepor tAndScore.aspx%3FID%3D91831F371F138345B53A153F49D4D872%26siteid%3De927580bf7 ) From metlist at plu.to Mon May 4 04:40:14 2009 From: metlist at plu.to (matt) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 09:40:14 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] British and Irish Meteorite Society Website Message-ID: <49FEA9EE.70207@plu.to> The British and Irish Meteorite Society (BIMS) is now in its 5th year. It is my pleasure to announce the brand new BIMS website has been launched, which you can visit at http://www.bimsociety.org/ Features to check out include: - The Gallery, which includes the complete Fernlea archive, courtesy of Rob Elliott (in excess of 1000 images of over 200 falls/finds). - The "About Meteorites" page(s) which may not teach you hardened enthusiasts very much, but I hope will really help the less meteoritically experienced. I must thank the following people: - Rob Elliott for his generosity in providing the original images and text for what is sure to be one of the most popular parts of the site, it's an amazing resource. - Mark Crawford for his work on the Fernlea text, proofreading, feedback and support. - Mark Ford (BIMS Chairman) for tolerating my endless emails, providing society info, feedback and support. New members are, as always, welcome. Regards, Matt. From bristolia at yahoo.com Mon May 4 14:03:46 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 11:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Elliptical Impact Crater Matt Wilson, Northern Territory, Australia Message-ID: <267054.87547.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Kenkmann, T.; Poelchau, 2208, M. H. Matt Wilson: An Elliptical Impact Crater in Northern Territory, Australia. 39th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference, (Lunar and Planetary Science XXXIX), held March 10-14, 2008 in League City, Texas. LPI Contribution No. 1391, p.1027 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1027.pdf Kenkmann, T., and M. H. Poelchau1, 2009, Low-angle collision with Earth: The elliptical impact crater Matt Wilson, Northern Territory, Australia. Geology. vol. 37, no. 5, pp. 459-462, doi:10.1130/G25378A.1 http://geology.gsapubs.org/cgi/content/abstract/37/5/459 Yours, PAul H. From bristolia at yahoo.com Mon May 4 14:17:15 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 11:17:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Paper Disputing Impact Origin of Coastal "Chevrons" Published Message-ID: <295923.60659.qm@web36203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The paper that diisputes the impact origin of coastal "chevrons" is: Bourgeois, J., and R. Weiss, "Chevrons" are not mega-tsunami deposits?A sedimentologic assessment. Geology. vol. 37,no.5, pp. 403-406. http://geology.gsapubs.org/cgi/content/abstract/37/5/403 Previously noted popular news articles about this paper are: Past Tsunamis? Contrary To Recent Hypothesis, 'Chevrons' Are Not Evidence Of Megatsunamis, Science Daily, April 30, 2009, http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090429091637.htm Contrary to recent hypothesis, 'chevrons' are not evidence of megatsunamis by Vince Stricherz, University of Washington, http://uwnews.washington.edu/ni/article.asp?articleID=49190 http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-04/uow-ctr042409.php Ancient mega-tsunamis did not create mysterious chevrons, researchers say, Fish and Aquatic News, May 1, 2009 http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/news/lib/246 Coastal Formations Not Result of Asteroid Impact by Nancy Atkinson, Universe Today, May 1, 2009 http://www.universetoday.com/2009/05/01/coastal-formations-not-result-of-asteroid-impact/ Yours, Paul H. From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Mon May 4 15:54:04 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 14:54:04 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Paper Disputing Impact Origin of Coastal"Chevrons" Published References: <295923.60659.qm@web36203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <105740CC1529402694A8CBEF43FBA188@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, Chevron Fans, The original paper's abstract reveals no actual "shovel" geology had any part in this work. First, they "reason that chevron-type bed forms are common and are present far enough from the coast to preclude tsunami genesis." That is, they artibrarily preclude any tsunamis "mega" enough to form chevrons, but no one even knows how big tsunamis have been in such rare events. That is, they guarantee their conclusion by their choice of initial conditions. Second, they evaluate "by modeling." They "model the southern Madagascar case." They "show that a modeled wave approach is inconsistent" with chevrons. Computer models are, of course, very useful, but due their extreme susceptibility to their creator's bias, desires, and tweaking, they prove largely nothing. Models convince the already-convinced and are dismissed by the unconvinced (like me). I at least am willing to say we don't know. I note that they offer no suggestions as to how "large- scale coastal bed forms" are created. Is there any other demonstrated cause? The authors believe they are formed by winds. The presence of marine fossils in the chevrons is dismissed as being due to wind-transport of marine fossils. Interesting. (Please, everybody who lives in a windy area far from the sea, go out right now and collect the seashells in your front yard; there should be plenty of them.) There are ways to actually find out. They require money, time, and a huge amount of excavating, sedimentography, grain dating, lots of trained people, years of work. Using that big computer over in Building 7 is much faster and cheaper. In the press stories (which are just endless copies of the same press release), the author mentions the Washington State Palouse chevrons which are blythely dismissed as impossible for a mega-tsunami to reach. Hmm, are they part of the Cheney Palouse Scabland Tract that was formed by sudden and immense mega- floods that are the precise dynamic equivalent of a mega-tsunami? Nice photos and dynamics from Bretz: http://geology.isu.edu/Digital_Geology_Idaho/Module13/MissoulaFloodbyKeenanLee.pdf Whoops! Guess you shouldn't have mentioned those Palouse ripples... Sterling K. Webb ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul" To: Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 1:17 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Paper Disputing Impact Origin of Coastal"Chevrons" Published > > The paper that diisputes the impact origin of coastal "chevrons" is: > > Bourgeois, J., and R. Weiss, "Chevrons" are not mega-tsunami > deposits?A sedimentologic assessment. Geology. vol. 37,no.5, > pp. 403-406. > > http://geology.gsapubs.org/cgi/content/abstract/37/5/403 > > Previously noted popular news articles about this paper are: > > Past Tsunamis? Contrary To Recent Hypothesis, 'Chevrons' > Are Not Evidence Of Megatsunamis, Science Daily, April 30, 2009, > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090429091637.htm > > Contrary to recent hypothesis, 'chevrons' are not evidence > of megatsunamis by Vince Stricherz, University of Washington, > http://uwnews.washington.edu/ni/article.asp?articleID=49190 > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-04/uow-ctr042409.php > > Ancient mega-tsunamis did not create mysterious chevrons, > researchers say, Fish and Aquatic News, May 1, 2009 > http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/news/lib/246 > > Coastal Formations Not Result of Asteroid Impact by Nancy > Atkinson, Universe Today, May 1, 2009 > http://www.universetoday.com/2009/05/01/coastal-formations-not-result-of-asteroid-impact/ > > Yours, > > Paul H. > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Mon May 4 17:37:33 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 14:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA Selects Future Projects To Study Mars And Mercury Message-ID: <200905042137.OAA27368@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> May 04, 2009 Dwayne Brown Headquarters, Washington 202-358-1726 dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov CONTRACT RELEASE: C09-020 NASA SELECTS FUTURE PROJECTS TO STUDY MARS AND MERCURY WASHINGTON -- NASA has selected two science investigations that will aid in the interior examination of Mars and probe the tenuous atmosphere of Mercury. The projects, valued at approximately $38 million, also establish new alliances with the European Space Agency, or ESA. "The selections will further advance our knowledge of these exciting terrestrial planets," said Jim Green, director of NASA's Planetary Division at NASA Headquarters in Washington. "The international collaboration will create a new chapter in planetary science and provide a strong partnership with the international science community to complement future robotic and human exploration activities." The Lander Radio-Science on ExoMars, or LaRa, will use NASA's Deep Space Network of radio telescopes to track part of ESA's ExoMars mission. Scheduled to launch in 2016, the mission consists of a fixed lander and a rover that will roam Mars collecting soil samples for detailed analysis. Data relayed from the lander back to the network will allow scientists to measure and analyze variations in the length of the day and location of the planet's rotational axis. This data will help researchers further dissect the structure of the Red Planet's interior, including the size of its core. When combined with the lander's onboard instruments, the data also may help confirm whether the planet's interior is still, at least partially, composed of liquid. William Folkner of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., is the principal investigator. The project costs approximately $6.6 million. The second selection, named Strofio, will employ a unique mass spectrometer. The instrument will determine the mass of atoms and molecules to reveal the composition of Mercury's atmosphere. The investigation will study the atmosphere, which is formed from material ejected from its surface, to reveal the composition of Mercury's surface. Strofio will investigate Mercury as a key component of the Italian Space Agency's suite of science instruments that will fly aboard ESA's BepiColombo mission. Scheduled for launch in 2013, the mission is composed of two spacecraft. Japan will build one spacecraft to study the planet's magnetic field. ESA will build the other to study Mercury directly. Stefano Livi of the Southwest Research Institute in San Antonio is the principal investigator. The project costs approximately $31.8 million. The selections were among eight proposals submitted in December 2008 in response to NASA's new Stand Alone Mission of Opportunity, known as Salmon. NASA solicited proposals for investigations that address planetary science research objectives on non-agency missions. A key criterion is that science goals, including data archiving and analysis, must be accomplished for less than $35 million. NASA's Deep Space Network is an international system of antennas that support interplanetary spacecraft missions and radio and radar astronomy observations for the exploration of the solar system and the universe. The network also supports selected Earth-orbiting missions. The system consists of three deep-space communications facilities placed around the world in California's Mojave Desert; Madrid, Spain; and near Canberra, Australia. This strategic placement permits constant observation of spacecraft as Earth rotates and helps to make the network the largest and most sensitive scientific telecommunications system in the world. NASA's Planetary Science Division aims to improve understanding of the planets and small bodies that inhabit our solar system. Mission activities include helping scientists answer questions about the solar system's formation, how it reached its current diverse state, and how life evolved on Earth and possibly elsewhere in the solar system. The Mars Exploration Program, a component of the Planetary Division, seeks to characterize and understand Mars as a dynamic system, including its present and past environment, climate cycles, geology and biological potential. For more information about the Stand Alone Mission of Opportunity, visit: http://salmon.larc.nasa.gov For information about NASA and agency programs, visit: http://www.nasa.gov -end- From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Tue May 5 02:27:38 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 23:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Nininger Estate Items - Rare Opportunity! Message-ID: <733664.62527.qm@web30704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, I have a special set of auctions running this week. I am offering historical items from the Nininger/Huss estate. Dr. H.H. Nininger is considered the "Father of Modern Meteoritics" and anything associated with him is aggressively sought after by collectors. You will see one-of-a-kind items that will never be available again so you may want to check them out. I did my best to keep this collection together but it was recently returned to me from a buyer who could not afford to keep it. I no longer have a permanent place to store it. I have another moving van full of tools and cutting equipment on the way so I need to clear out my garage rather quickly. In one final effort to keep this historic collection together, I will entertain offers the next 48 hours for the entire collection consisting of 18 items. One way or another, this collection will be sold, even at a loss. All Auctions Can Be Found At This link: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ All 18 exceptional Nininger estate items can be found at these links: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318756112 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338928445 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318754389 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338926633 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318753689 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338925277 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318752678 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338923023 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338921947 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318750898 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318749651 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338918583 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318748169 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338917015 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338916388 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338915412 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318746492 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338913016 And many more examples worth looking at can be found at this link: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck. Best Regards, ------------------------------------ Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 raremeteorites at yahoo.com From eric at meteoritesusa.com Tue May 5 03:43:20 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 00:43:20 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] May the 4th be with you Message-ID: <49FFEE18.4030307@meteoritesusa.com> For the Star Wars lover in you. This story has everything you could possibly want. Star Wars, space, Chewbacca, Han Solo, Princess Leia, Darth Vader, Storm troopers and a Canyon Diablo meteorite wedding ring with the inscription "May the 4th be with you". Now how cool is that?! ;) Photos included in the article here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5275019/Star-Wars-inspires-couples-bizarre-sci-fi-wedding.html Duncan Thomson, 41, and Sammi Gardiner, 39, got married in an unusual ceremony surrounded by friends and family all dressed as characters from the sci-fi movies. In a pun on the films' famous phrase, "may the force be with you", they chose Monday as the date for the service, so they could bill it as "May the 4th be with you" The couple, from the Isle of Wight, even invited the movie's director George Lucas, who wrote back to them saying he was unable to attend. However, despite his absence, the bride and groom tied the knot as the film's hero and heroine, exchanging vows themed on their favourite scenes. During the wedding in Shanklin on the island, Mr Thomson told his bride: "I promise to protect you from carbon freezing and promise to protect you from the Dark Side, through hyperspace and into the far reaches of the galaxy." The couple were joined by Mr Thomson's son Kieren, 18, who, as best man, played the part of Solo's sidekick Chewbacca the wookie. His daughter Charlotte, 20, carried out her duties as head bridesmaid while acting out the part of Queen Padme Amidala. Evil villain Darth Vader, played by friend Dan Cawpheray, delivered readings in the style of the Star Wars scripts, flanked by two Imperial Stormtroopers. He told the congregation: "Members of the Galactic Empire, Duncan and Sammi met a long time ago, in a place far, far away. The force is strong with these two. "If you do not underestimate the power of marriage then together you can rule your house as husband and wife." The pair decided on the theme because their first date in May 2005 was a trip to the cinema to see the Star Wars film Revenge of the Sith. Mr Thomson, an amateur astrologist, said: "We had both been married before with traditional services and wanted to do something a bit different and fun to put a smile on everyone's face. "We have been sourcing costumes for ages and most of them have been shipped over from America but we are really pleased with how it all went. "They are just great films, with a great storyline, great effects and are a rite of passage for anyone growing up." The couple also sent invitations to actors Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher and Mark Hamill ? who played Solo, Leia and Luke Skywalker in the cult films ? but they did not attend. Lucas sent back a RSVP letter bearing his Skywalker Ranch stamp saying he could not make it. Mr Thomson said: "It was a shame he could not be here but I hope he sees the pictures and sees that we did him proud." The couple had to remove certain Star Wars references from the 20-minute civil service because "Jedi" is a recognised religion, he added. The bride's ring was made out of meteorite found in Canyon Diablo in the US, engraved with: "May the 4th be with you." Following the ceremony, the couple departed for a honeymoon on a cruise to the Mediterranean, with a special guard of honour using light sabres. Sammi, an IT worker, said: "The films brought us together and are something that our families, young and old, have always loved." A friend, Matt Archer, 32, who came as the droid C-3PO, said: "It was incredible. Everyone got into character." -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From meteoritics at gmail.com Tue May 5 04:21:34 2009 From: meteoritics at gmail.com (Bill Hall) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 01:21:34 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Nininger Estate Items - Rare Opportunity! Message-ID: <883a36d30905050121n5568eac7lfdd33f65ec9079f9@mail.gmail.com> This should be sold as a collection IMHO. Maybe the Kansas Meteorite Museum. What about the Crater Museum? You would think they would want it. If they don't have the funding to purchase, maybe you could trade it for hunting privileges? Just a thought... Bill Hall From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Tue May 5 09:16:26 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 09:16:26 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 5, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_5_2009.html __________________________ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =May5509AvgfooterNO115) From illaenus at wp.pl Tue May 5 10:20:57 2009 From: illaenus at wp.pl (Tomasz Jakubowski) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 16:20:57 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Gao, Sikhotes and more meteorites for sale Message-ID: <4a004b491dd584.38812709@wp.pl> Hello everyone, I have some popular meteorites for sale : - Gao Guenie 1146 grams (lot), 80% complete specimens (206 specimens) not cleaned. http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/GaoS#5303786862469113938 - Sikhote Alin small individuals (lot). Weight 1224 grams. http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/SikhoteAlinSmallIndividuals1224G#5322931757971850610 - Sikhote Alin small oriented individuals (lot) 120 grams . http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/SikhoteAlinOrientedSpecimens#5306804191264346914 - Seymchan slices . Weight is : 603 g, 653g and 802 g. http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/SeymchanSlices# - NWA chondrite (under classification) probably H4, amazing chondrules, and crust. Specimen have 646 g. http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWA#5278895953881375378 - Millbillillie 152 grams super oriented specimen with great flow lines, fully crusted. http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/Millbillillie152Oriented# - Camel Donga – 72 grams, fully crusted, oriented. http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/CamelDonga72G# If You have any question please write to my address illaenus at gmail.com Kind Regards Tomek Jakubowski IMCA #2321 ---------------------------------------------------- Wygraj 10.000 z?otych oraz inne nagrody We? udzia? w konkursie i zbuduj najwi?ksze drzewo genealogiczne! Kliknij: http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fcorto.www.wp.pl%2Fas%2Fkonkursbliscy.html&sid=717 From stephan.kambach at freenet.de Tue May 5 11:30:19 2009 From: stephan.kambach at freenet.de (Stephan Kambach) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 17:30:19 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - MARALINGA Message-ID: Hello All, I am offering a full slice of Maralinga (CK4-AN). It was sold in July 1995 by David New. The slice has a weight of 38,2 gram and shows as a specialty a superb round inclusion (chondrule or CAI) of approx. 8mm in Diameter. The literature describes a maximum of 5 mm for Maralinga [MAPS 27, 87-91 (1992)] . Diameters in the diagonals are with 5,9 and 8,8 cm; the disk has an absolutely accurate symmetrical cut. If you should be interested in a purchase, you can contact me off list. On request I dispatch photographs. The price is 3450 US $ . Regards, Stephan Kambach Stephan Kambach Tumringer Str.254 79539 L?rrach Germany +49 7621 43930 From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Tue May 5 15:26:57 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 21:26:57 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Insights - TAMEDAGHT PHENOMENA - cross section through samples! In-Reply-To: References: <001701c9cb4f$b0bb2740$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <44F9C3B4-6CE8-4101-BF3D-21D37DD57507@ifa.hawaii.edu> <003a01c9cc10$cd3bc840$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <003101c9cdb7$74d40110$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Good Evening List, Stefan's enquiring mind urged him (of course) to cut the samples of that ominous Tamdaght products - with an amazing results. And we want to share his observations here: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tam1.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tam2.jpg It turned out, that all fragments incorporated into that material are really meteoritic fragments! Even the large round fusion-crust-balls or bubbles emerging from the surface had a small fragment left inside. The fragments themselves are modified, the smaller ones seemed to be changed by heat more than the larger ones - but in all the original H5-matrix is still cognizable. No terrestrial stones or fragments he could find. Strange is, that the some of the assembled fragments show a thicker own fusion crust, some a thinner, some no crust at all. The dark "glue" between the fragments revealed under the microscope to be a weird mixture of a black melt (perhaps fusion crust too?), tiny glassy pearls and metal grains, the latter of a sometimes quite large size (possibly troilite). I decided, to name that material from now on to honour the observer: "Ralewite" :-) In the German meteorite forum, we're speculating about the formation of that strange conglomerate. Were from a flying meteorid in stable flight, developing a special fat crust, fragments merging from the apex to the backside, where they assembled? Was a stone with still soft fusion crust crossing a debris cloud of a fragmentation of another stone close in front of it and larded with splinters? Any other ideas? Ahem, of course we were already asked, whether we would sell some of the cuts. Well, perhaps 4 halves or so we can offer. Difficult to set a price, cause it's such an unique phaenomenon. So I'd like to orientate the price, on the result the specimen of glass melt without meteorite fragments, where in this discussion was reffered to, yielded on ebay. Guess that's o.k. cause these are cut and contain meteorite fragments, nobody will say anything against: 60$/g Best! Martin & Stefan Chladni's Heirs Munich - Berlin Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/ From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Tue May 5 15:29:11 2009 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 12:29:11 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Recovered falls Message-ID: <468bf6050905051229j2d1448b0p9238be6fcfac268f@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone I have only been into meteorites for six years or so now and I know about Park Forest IL and Portales Valley NM. But were there any other recovered falls in the past 10 or 15 years in the continental US? Of course I also know about Ash Creek TX Thanks for your input. -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From rlenssen at planet.nl Tue May 5 16:04:40 2009 From: rlenssen at planet.nl (Rob Lenssen) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 22:04:40 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Proudly presenting NWA 5764 LL6-L4, the first ever LL-L chondrite References: Message-ID: <444F6322786A4D0294938717E7477A0D@EIGENAARNJEQJY> Hi List, I forgot to add: The pictures of the slices in the link below, are available as high resolution, low compression JPEG's also (5.6 to 8 Mbites). Too large for my website, but if somebody likes to have one (or more) Emailed, please feel free to ask me off-list (please add the ID nr.'s of the slices in the picture you like to receive). Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Lenssen" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 7:56 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Proudly presenting NWA 5764 LL6-L4,the first ever LL-L chondrite > Dear List, > > I want to share with you the special event, of the first meteorite I have > had classified, that has been fully approved by the Nomenclature Committee > of the Meteoritical Society. > > And a special meteorite it turned out to be! > The unclassified 502g Acfer I bought in 2003 was given an NWA name due to > the unavailability of find coordinates. > NWA 5764 has been approved as an LL6-L4 breccia. The first ever LL-L > chondrite! > > For Meteoritical Bulletin details, search for "NWA 5764": > http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php > > Special thanks go to J. Gattacceca (CEREGE) and M. Denise (MNHN) for their > classifying effort. > > Pictures of external and internal structure can be found at: > http://home.planet.nl/~rlenssen/NWA5764.html > > Enjoy! > > Best regards, > Rob Lenssen > IMCA #1681 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From anitawestlake at att.net Tue May 5 16:16:05 2009 From: anitawestlake at att.net (Anita Westlake) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 13:16:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Waiting for Plainview Message-ID: <924603.51228.qm@web83815.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear List: ?? I have been looking for a nice slice of Plainview, TX for a couple of years now. I don't know if it's the "1917" one, or if there is a different one. The one I want has lots of lovely chondrules and I think they may be different shades of brown and white. ?? I'm looking for something in the 10-40 gram range and will happily pay your asking price if it's "pretty" enough. ? Please check your stock and send me a picture! Anita D. Westlake IMCA #4101 From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Tue May 5 16:26:14 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 14:26:14 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Recovered falls References: <468bf6050905051229j2d1448b0p9238be6fcfac268f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3751ED531D7048DE8638A894C9CE8F13@bellatrix> Berthoud (Colorado), 2004. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Miller" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 1:29 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Recovered falls > Hello everyone I have only been into meteorites for six years or so > now and I know about Park Forest IL and Portales Valley NM. But were > there any other recovered falls in the past 10 or 15 years in the > continental US? Of course I also know about Ash Creek TX Thanks for > your input. From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Tue May 5 16:20:19 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 05 May 2009 20:20:19 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Recovered (US) falls Message-ID: Hello Mike and List, Hello everyone I have only been into meteorites for six years or so now and I know about Park Forest IL and Portales Valley NM. But were here any other recovered falls in the past 10 or 15 years in the continental US? Of course I also know about Ash Creek TX. Thanks for your input. Let's start with the famous Lost City 1970 chondrite: Park Forest-L5-Illinois-2003-Mar 26 Monahans-H5-Texas-1998-Mar 22 Elbert-LL6-Colorado-1998-Jan 11 Portales Valley-H6-New Mexico-1998-Jun 13 Worden-L5-Michigan-1997-Sep 01 Coleman-L6-Michigan-1994-Oct 20 Peekskill-H6-New York-1992-Oct 09 Noblesville-H4-Indiana-1991-Aug 31 Burnwell-H-Kentucky-1990-Sep 04 Claxton-L6-Georgia-1984-Dec 10 Maryville-L6-Tennessee-1983-Jan 28 Wethersfield-L6-Connecticut-1982-Nov 08 Salem-L6-Oregon-1981-May 13 Richland Springs-Texas-1980-Sep 20 Louisville-L6-Kentucky-1977-Jan 31 Stratford-L6-Connecticut-1974-May 27 Canon City-H6-Colorado-1973-Oct 27 San Juan Capistrano-H6-California-1973-Mar 15 Wethersfield-L6-Connecticut-1971-Apr 08 Lost City-H5-Oklahoma-1970-Jan 03 Best wishes, Bernd From fcressy at prodigy.net Tue May 5 16:32:37 2009 From: fcressy at prodigy.net (Frank Cressy) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 13:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Recovered falls In-Reply-To: <468bf6050905051229j2d1448b0p9238be6fcfac268f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <382344.4886.qm@web80204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello Mike, I count 14 official US falls since 1990. They are: Burnwell, KY 1990 Noblesville, IN 1991 Peekskill, NY 1992 Coleman, MI 1994 Turtle Lake, WI 1996 Worden, MI 1997 Elbert, CO 1998 Monahans (1998), TX 1998 Portales Valley, NM 1998 New Orleans, LA 2003 Park Forest, IL 2003 Berthoud, CO 2004 Orlando, FL 2004 Ash Creek, TX 2009 Unfortunately I'm missing specimens of four of the above :-( Cheers, Frank --- On Tue, 5/5/09, Mike Miller wrote: From: Mike Miller Subject: [meteorite-list] Recovered falls To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 12:29 PM Hello everyone I have only been into meteorites for six years or so now and I know about Park Forest IL and Portales Valley NM. But were there any other recovered falls in the past 10 or 15 years in the continental US? Of course I also know about Ash Creek TX Thanks for your input. -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Tue May 5 17:35:57 2009 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 14:35:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Recovered (US) falls In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <468bf6050905051435t4428b864k3843c1dd8c874d8a@mail.gmail.com> Wow! Ok was I clear? I was looking for witnessed falls that were later recovered. On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 1:20 PM, wrote: > Hello Mike and List, > > Hello everyone I have only been into meteorites for six years or so > now and I know about Park Forest IL and Portales Valley NM. But > were here any other recovered falls in the past 10 or 15 years in the > continental US? ?Of course I also know about Ash Creek TX. Thanks > for your input. > > Let's start with the famous Lost City 1970 chondrite: > > Park Forest-L5-Illinois-2003-Mar 26 > Monahans-H5-Texas-1998-Mar 22 > Elbert-LL6-Colorado-1998-Jan 11 > Portales Valley-H6-New Mexico-1998-Jun 13 > Worden-L5-Michigan-1997-Sep 01 > Coleman-L6-Michigan-1994-Oct 20 > Peekskill-H6-New York-1992-Oct 09 > Noblesville-H4-Indiana-1991-Aug 31 > Burnwell-H-Kentucky-1990-Sep 04 > Claxton-L6-Georgia-1984-Dec 10 > Maryville-L6-Tennessee-1983-Jan 28 > Wethersfield-L6-Connecticut-1982-Nov 08 > Salem-L6-Oregon-1981-May 13 > Richland Springs-Texas-1980-Sep 20 > Louisville-L6-Kentucky-1977-Jan 31 > Stratford-L6-Connecticut-1974-May 27 > Canon City-H6-Colorado-1973-Oct 27 > San Juan Capistrano-H6-California-1973-Mar 15 > Wethersfield-L6-Connecticut-1971-Apr 08 > Lost City-H5-Oklahoma-1970-Jan 03 > > Best wishes, > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Tue May 5 17:54:58 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 14:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] RALEWITE Insights - TAMEDAGHT PHENOMENA - cross section through samples Message-ID: <934302.43010.qm@web62003.mail.re1.yahoo.com> HI MARTIN AND LIST ?i agree this phenomena must be called from now on? RALEWITE IN Honor to Stefan ralew who made the observation. i congratulate him for the work he has done true years? he have been very passionate and he looks all over 1000's of earth rock to come with a nice meteorite, each time he visit me he look all over my box's, ?Stefan brought many new specimen to the collectors, actualy we do not realise the gambling that meteorite dealers do by ?buying many earth rock ,it's more dangerous than a casino; we have not to forget the? giant work that also ?has been done by Mike Farmer and the hupes family in nwa , they have brought true? 10 years a fantastic collection?to the scientist and collectors. and many other dealers also; thanks aziz ?habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From cdtucson at cox.net Tue May 5 18:19:36 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 15:19:36 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Recovered (US) falls In-Reply-To: <468bf6050905051435t4428b864k3843c1dd8c874d8a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090505181936.ZW1WD.159147.imail@fed1rmwml42> Mike, What does it matter if it is a fall . Yes, I've read all of the debate about witnessed falls but aren't most of them just finds as well? Because unless it hits you on the head you still have to find it. Don't you? So, aren't all falls just glorified (lucky) finds? And is there really a difference? When you think about it there must be really very few falls that did not also have to be found. And so; if you do have to look for the fall how is it not a find? Just a question no offence intended. Thanks Carl ---- Mike Miller wrote: > Wow! Ok was I clear? I was looking for witnessed falls that were later > recovered. > > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 1:20 PM, wrote: > > Hello Mike and List, > > > > Hello everyone I have only been into meteorites for six years or so > > now and I know about Park Forest IL and Portales Valley NM. But > > were here any other recovered falls in the past 10 or 15 years in the > > continental US? ?Of course I also know about Ash Creek TX. Thanks > > for your input. > > > > Let's start with the famous Lost City 1970 chondrite: > > > > Park Forest-L5-Illinois-2003-Mar 26 > > Monahans-H5-Texas-1998-Mar 22 > > Elbert-LL6-Colorado-1998-Jan 11 > > Portales Valley-H6-New Mexico-1998-Jun 13 > > Worden-L5-Michigan-1997-Sep 01 > > Coleman-L6-Michigan-1994-Oct 20 > > Peekskill-H6-New York-1992-Oct 09 > > Noblesville-H4-Indiana-1991-Aug 31 > > Burnwell-H-Kentucky-1990-Sep 04 > > Claxton-L6-Georgia-1984-Dec 10 > > Maryville-L6-Tennessee-1983-Jan 28 > > Wethersfield-L6-Connecticut-1982-Nov 08 > > Salem-L6-Oregon-1981-May 13 > > Richland Springs-Texas-1980-Sep 20 > > Louisville-L6-Kentucky-1977-Jan 31 > > Stratford-L6-Connecticut-1974-May 27 > > Canon City-H6-Colorado-1973-Oct 27 > > San Juan Capistrano-H6-California-1973-Mar 15 > > Wethersfield-L6-Connecticut-1971-Apr 08 > > Lost City-H5-Oklahoma-1970-Jan 03 > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Bernd > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > -- > Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 > www.meteoritefinder.com > 928-753-6825 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cdtucson at cox.net Tue May 5 19:27:22 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 16:27:22 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Recovered (US) falls In-Reply-To: <468bf6050905051557y6bb0998ei6bfc1ae30d062955@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090505192722.IGC7I.160424.imail@fed1rmwml42> Mike, That sounds like a lofty goal! Once back in around 1990ish.? there was a huge fireball that was seen by dozens from Tucson. it fell north from our view and from viewers in Phoenix it was seen to fall south. In casa Grande which is between Tucson and Phoenix it was seen to fall slightly west. This thing was pin pointed from three directions. David Kring put together a recovery team and they went out to get it. They never did find it. Someday someone is going to find a meteorite in the general vicinity and they will be able to claim it was a witnessed fall. But, It has been years so I fail to see the significance of a fall vs a find. Unless it is such rare material that it becomes the name sake for the type I really could not care less wether a fall or a find. And how will they even know without just guessing that that is the one they all saw anyway. How do they ever know with certainty? . I don't think they got a licence plate number while it fell. To me it makes no difference where it was found either. I collect based on Rarity and or scientific importance only. But I'm glad some people collect only falls because I sell Carancas. A true fall by any definition. Plus it has all of the other bells and whistles too. Take care. Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 ---- Mike Miller wrote: > Hi Carl the reason I am asking is because we are doing some research > that is related to fire balls and we have 2 distinct types of fire > balls we are looking into. Those that produced meteorites that have > been found and those that have not. Plus I am a meteorite hunter and I > never new there were so many witnessed finds. : ) No offense taken. > > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 3:19 PM, wrote: > > Mike, > > What does it matter if it is a fall . Yes, I've read all of the debate about witnessed falls but aren't most of them just finds as well? Because unless it hits you on the head you still have to find it. Don't you? So, aren't all falls just glorified (lucky) ?finds? And is there really a difference? When you think about it there must be really very few falls that did not also have to be ?found. And so; if you do have to look for the fall how is it not a find? Just a question no offence intended. Thanks > > Carl > > > > ---- Mike Miller wrote: > >> Wow! Ok was I clear? I was looking for witnessed falls that were later > >> recovered. > >> > >> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 1:20 PM, ? wrote: > >> > Hello Mike and List, > >> > > >> > Hello everyone I have only been into meteorites for six years or so > >> > now and I know about Park Forest IL and Portales Valley NM. But > >> > were here any other recovered falls in the past 10 or 15 years in the > >> > continental US? ?Of course I also know about Ash Creek TX. Thanks > >> > for your input. > >> > > >> > Let's start with the famous Lost City 1970 chondrite: > >> > > >> > Park Forest-L5-Illinois-2003-Mar 26 > >> > Monahans-H5-Texas-1998-Mar 22 > >> > Elbert-LL6-Colorado-1998-Jan 11 > >> > Portales Valley-H6-New Mexico-1998-Jun 13 > >> > Worden-L5-Michigan-1997-Sep 01 > >> > Coleman-L6-Michigan-1994-Oct 20 > >> > Peekskill-H6-New York-1992-Oct 09 > >> > Noblesville-H4-Indiana-1991-Aug 31 > >> > Burnwell-H-Kentucky-1990-Sep 04 > >> > Claxton-L6-Georgia-1984-Dec 10 > >> > Maryville-L6-Tennessee-1983-Jan 28 > >> > Wethersfield-L6-Connecticut-1982-Nov 08 > >> > Salem-L6-Oregon-1981-May 13 > >> > Richland Springs-Texas-1980-Sep 20 > >> > Louisville-L6-Kentucky-1977-Jan 31 > >> > Stratford-L6-Connecticut-1974-May 27 > >> > Canon City-H6-Colorado-1973-Oct 27 > >> > San Juan Capistrano-H6-California-1973-Mar 15 > >> > Wethersfield-L6-Connecticut-1971-Apr 08 > >> > Lost City-H5-Oklahoma-1970-Jan 03 > >> > > >> > Best wishes, > >> > > >> > Bernd > >> > > >> > ______________________________________________ > >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> > Meteorite-list mailing list > >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 > >> www.meteoritefinder.com > >> ? ? ?928-753-6825 > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > -- > Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 > www.meteoritefinder.com > 928-753-6825 From bristolia at yahoo.com Tue May 5 21:06:01 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 18:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Giant tsunami swept through New York City 2, 000 years ago Message-ID: <610156.16828.qm@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Giant tsunami swept through New York City 2,000 years ago, say scientists by David Gardner, Mail online, May 4, 2009. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1177049/Giant-tsunami-swept-New-York-City-2-000-years-ago-say-scientists.html Tsunami may have hit NYC area 300 BC, United Press International, May 4, 2009? http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2009/05/04/Tsunami-may-have-hit-NYC-area-300-BC/UPI-63041241482725/ Ancient tsunami 'hit New York', BBC News, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8028949.stm http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8028949.stm?ad=1 Yours, Paul H. From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu Tue May 5 22:19:44 2009 From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 19:19:44 -0700 (MST) Subject: [meteorite-list] Giant tsunami swept through New York City 2, 000 years ago In-Reply-To: <610156.16828.qm@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <610156.16828.qm@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul: We actually talked about this at "asteroid lunch" yesterday! The case against a tsunami is that there is no other evidence anywhere along the US coast or on the other side of the Atlantic. Skeptics think that it could just as easily been a huge hurricane storm surge. Do not know much more than that. Larry > > Giant tsunami swept through New York City 2,000 years ago, > say scientists by David Gardner, Mail online, May 4, 2009. > > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1177049/Giant-tsunami-swept-New-York-City-2-000-years-ago-say-scientists.html > > Tsunami may have hit NYC area 300 BC, United Press > International, May 4, 2009??? > > http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2009/05/04/Tsunami-may-have-hit-NYC-area-300-BC/UPI-63041241482725/ > > Ancient tsunami 'hit New York', BBC News, > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8028949.stm > http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8028949.stm?ad=1 > > Yours, > > Paul H. > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From eric at meteoritesusa.com Tue May 5 22:32:21 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 19:32:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Notice: Private Sale List Message-ID: <4A00F6B5.90005@meteoritesusa.com> Hi All, This is advance notice that I'll be getting in a HUGE shipment of meteorites in the next week or so. Those of you who want first dibs on this material should prepare by getting on my private sale list immediately. I always email my sales out to my private list first and many of you Met-List members have contacted me "after" I have sold items to my private list members and missed out completely on the sale. This is not a forum list, so expect deals on meteorites and lots of them. Often I'll send out a special price for members only. If you aren't on it, you don't get those deals. If however you want to save money on meteorites and get first dibs on any meteorites I'm selling, then I would highly suggest you join my private sales list. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/newsletter/ Any questions send me an email off-list. -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA 904-236-5394 From bristolia at yahoo.com Tue May 5 23:21:49 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 20:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Giant tsunami swept through New York City 2, 000 years ago Message-ID: <334435.44615.qm@web36203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Larry wrote: >We actually talked about this at "asteroid lunch" yesterday! >The case against a tsunami is that there is no other evidence >anywhere along the US coast or on the other side of the >Atlantic. Skeptics think that it could >just as easily been a >huge hurricane storm surge. Do not know much more than that. A related paper might be: Scileppi, E., and J. P. Donnelly, 2006, Sedimentary evidence of hurricane strikes in western Long Island, New York. Geochemistry, Geophysics, Geosystems. vol. 8, no. 6, Q06011, doi:10.1029/2006GC001463. http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2007/2006GC001463.shtml https://darchive.mblwhoilibrary.org/bitstream/1912/1786/1/2006GC001463.pdf The abstract to this paper reads: ?Multiple washovers laid down between 2200 and 900 cal yr B.P. suggest an interval of frequent intense hurricane landfalls in the region.? The text states: ?Numerous sand layers preserved in this core are tentatively dated to 2200?900 cal yr B.P. and pre-2800 cal yr B.P. (Figure 11)." Unfortunately, they do not have specific dates for specific overwash events. It might be interesting to see if any of the sands beds within the lowermost part of this interval just above its 2200 cal yr BP start differs noticeably from all of the others in thickness, grain size, or some other physical characteristics. Jeffrey P. Donnelly?s web page is at: http://www.whoi.edu/hpb/Site.do?id=248 In it, there is listed the citation of a paper that has been submitted for publication. It is: Boldt, K.V., P. Lane, J.D. Woodruff, and J.P. Donnelly, submitted, Sedimentary evidence of hurricane-induced coastal flooding in southeastern New England over the last two millennia: Geophysical Research Letters. Maybe this papers might have some answers. Also, if there is enough interest, someone in your "asteroid lunch" group could email Dr. Jeffrey P. Donnelly and see what his professional opinion is of the tsunami interpretation. Best Regards, Paul H. From schoner at mybluelight.com Tue May 5 23:57:10 2009 From: schoner at mybluelight.com (Steve Schoner) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 03:57:10 GMT Subject: [meteorite-list] RE Insights - TAMEDAGHT PHENOMENA - cross section through samples! Message-ID: <20090505.215710.13487.0@webmail03.dca.untd.com> I have in my collection several odd very thick vesicular fusion crusts, about 3 mm thick and about a cm wide that were found in the Norton Co. strewnfield. These are certainly fusion crust from the backside of the main mass, or other oriented Norton individuals. These crusts are black with chunks of un-fused Norton meteorite embedded within. Looks like this material is very similar in formation as to what was found with the Norton meteorite. Steve Schoner IMCA 4470 Message: 1 Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 21:26:57 +0200 From: "Martin Altmann" Subject: [meteorite-list] Insights - TAMEDAGHT PHENOMENA - cross section through samples! To: Message-ID: <003101c9cdb7$74d40110$177f2a59 at name86d88d87e2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Good Evening List, Stefan's enquiring mind urged him (of course) to cut the samples of that ominous Tamdaght products - with an amazing results. And we want to share his observations here: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tam1.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tam2.jpg It turned out, that all fragments incorporated into that material are really meteoritic fragments! Even the large round fusion-crust-balls or bubbles emerging from the surface had a small fragment left inside. The fragments themselves are modified, the smaller ones seemed to be changed by heat more than the larger ones - but in all the original H5-matrix is still cognizable. No terrestrial stones or fragments he could find. Strange is, that the some of the assembled fragments show a thicker own fusion crust, some a thinner, some no crust at all. The dark "glue" between the fragments revealed under the microscope to be a weird mixture of a black melt (perhaps fusion crust too?), tiny glassy pearls and metal grains, the latter of a sometimes quite large size (possibly troilite). I decided, to name that material from now on to honour the observer: "Ralewite" :-) In the German meteorite forum, we're speculating about the formation of that strange conglomerate. Were from a flying meteorid in stable flight, developing a special fat crust, fragments merging from the apex to the backside, where they assembled? Was a stone with still soft fusion crust crossing a debris cloud of a fragmentation of another stone close in front of it and larded with splinters? Any other ideas? Ahem, of course we were already asked, whether we would sell some of the cuts. Well, perhaps 4 halves or so we can offer. Difficult to set a price, cause it's such an unique phaenomenon. So I'd like to orientate the price, on the result the specimen of glass melt without meteorite fragments, where in this discussion was reffered to, yielded on ebay. Guess that's o.k. cause these are cut and contain meteorite fragments, nobody will say anything against: 60$/g Best! Martin & Stefan Chladni's Heirs Munich - Berlin Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/ ____________________________________________________________ Free information on accounting careers. Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdegd1y1WDFw9w4EI6KaKWDBLW6nPQuMsSJWK0vTVXMpwSomnm8KLO/ From cojack at tiscali.it Wed May 6 02:56:07 2009 From: cojack at tiscali.it (Francesco Moser) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 08:56:07 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Plastic Boxes References: <49F772B2.9020707@meteoritesusa.com> <376B5AE7DC94421B8B20DBA45086B004@fisso> Message-ID: <63BCC5283631467DB3B6470990A763D7@fisso> Hello! I'm looking for plastic boxes with sponge for mineral and meteorites. I have bought at the Munich Mineral Show some boxes from this Company: http://www.neuheuser-gmbh.de/Dosen/Dosen-Seite1.htm I'm looking for something like: #45141 #41151 I know that in Germany there is a company with better prices than this one! Could someone indicate me the name and maybe the web address of this company? Thanks a lot! All the best!!! <><><><> Francesco Moser IMCA #1510 From cojack at tiscali.it Wed May 6 02:56:07 2009 From: cojack at tiscali.it (Francesco Moser) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 08:56:07 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Plastic Boxes References: <49F772B2.9020707@meteoritesusa.com> <376B5AE7DC94421B8B20DBA45086B004@fisso> Message-ID: <63BCC5283631467DB3B6470990A763D7@fisso> Hello! I'm looking for plastic boxes with sponge for mineral and meteorites. I have bought at the Munich Mineral Show some boxes from this Company: http://www.neuheuser-gmbh.de/Dosen/Dosen-Seite1.htm I'm looking for something like: #45141 #41151 I know that in Germany there is a company with better prices than this one! Could someone indicate me the name and maybe the web address of this company? Thanks a lot! All the best!!! <><><><> Francesco Moser IMCA #1510 From tett at rogers.com Wed May 6 07:21:20 2009 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 07:21:20 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard In-Reply-To: References: <610156.16828.qm@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A0172B0.6030702@rogers.com> Hello List, I have just returned from Buzzard Coulee after 4 exhausting days of travel and meteorite hunting. It was wonderful to experience the Prairies and to hunt with other meteorite enthusiasts. Hunted with friends from the Royal Ontario Museum, Patrick Herrmann, Rob Wessel and Mike Bandli. All of us were successful. Mike and Rob took me under there wings the first day out and shortly after starting with them I found a 90 gram individual with over 90% crust. I was on cloud 9! This stone turned out to be the largest our small group was going to find. After giving half of my haul back to the land owner, as payment for rights to hunt, I came home with just under 1/4 kilo (12 individuals). Will post some pictures soon. The plows are now working and it looks like the farmer's fields will be tilled any day now. However, there is much woodland to be searched and I am sure many fine specimens are waiting to be found. The woodlands will be extremely tough to search and it will take much more work to find anything compared to our field hunting. They may even prove impossible to search. Having walked over 50 km in 2 full days and 2 half days I now have a greater appreciation for how difficult it is to hunt for these treasures. Buzzard Coulee was easy compared to many and it still took about 3 km of walking (on average) before finding a stone. I don't think I would have been able to stand West where many hunters were lucky to find one stone in a day. Cheers! Mike (tett) Tettenborn Owen Sound, Ontario, Canada From geoking at notkin.net Wed May 6 11:05:04 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 08:05:04 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" TV Show and New Website Message-ID: <6CB8B2C9-6157-49AF-A7E9-C610C7D4D5E7@notkin.net> Dear Listees: Greetings from sunny Tucson where we are expecting temperatures of 100F by the end of the week. Summer starts early in the desert. Steve and I are very pleased to announce the official "Meteorite Men" website: http://meteoritemen.com The new site features a gallery of exclusive production shots taken by our fabulous location photographer, Caroline Palmer, as well as a short article about the making of the show, a media page with press release and promo photos, etc. The world premiere of the one-hour documentary is this coming Sunday, May 10 at 6 pm Pacific and 9 pm Eastern. It will be shown both on Science Channel and Science Channel HD (in high definition). Science Channel is part of the Discovery family, along with Animal Planet, Discovery Health, etc., and is included in most larger cable packages. I am sorry to report to our international List members that the initial broadcast will be US only. Many people have asked me about a DVD release and overseas broadcasts. Our production company hopes to have the show broadcast internationally, and we have also talked about a DVD release. I'll post news when we have it, along with additional broadcast dates and times. We have spent just about seventeen months working on this project, and it is a high budget production with plenty of action, and humor, and, well, probably a few meteorites too : ) Thanks to everyone who has helped us along the way with "Meteorite Men," especially our guest stars Dr. Meenakshi Wadhwa and Dr. Laurence Garvie of the Center for Meteorite Studies at ASU. If you'd like to receive the latest news about "Meteorite Men" please follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/meteoritemen And we hope you enjoy the show! With best wishes, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com From fuzzfoot at comcast.net Wed May 6 11:14:27 2009 From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 15:14:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Hunt In-Reply-To: <103989688.3442071241622830236.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1678751681.3442421241622867927.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> A big congrats to Tett on his first ever find! We were all honored to be a part of it and his reaction was both priceless and infectious. You couldn't have asked for a better stone, really. Beautiful piece ad the Buzzard definitely got him buzzed to find many more. Congrats to Patrick Herrmann for finding some exceptional stones as well. That day our little gridding group was like a meteorite conveyor belt cranking one out every 5 minutes or so. It is sad to see the machinery getting prepped to mutilate the field, but it is planting time and farmer's have to farm. Rob and I noted a few strange firsts (for us) during this trip. They are: Finding meteorite within 2 minutes of arrival at strewnfield. Finding meteorite while tying shoe-lace. Finding meteorite under water. Finding meteorite embedded in cow dung. Park car, open door to find meteorite. Park car, get out, find one meteorite at the back of car and one at the front. We noticed four (very) elderly folks walking the roads dragging magnet canes across the gravel and stopped to talk. It became quickly obvious that they had no idea what they were looking for when they asked if the gravel dust on the bottom of their magnets was the meteorite. We didn't have any stones with us at the moment so Rob and I decided to hop into the field and see if we could find a stone to show them what they look like. We looked at our watch to time how quickly we could find a meteorite and within about 4 steps and under 30 seconds we found a stone. We quickly ran back to the elderly group and presented them with their first rock from space. The reactions were unforgettable. 4 more meteorite hunters born in their 70's and warm, fuzzy feelings for everyone. We dubbed this the 'Karma Stone' as it led to a chain of events taking us to a very fruitful area that we wouldn't have hunted had that not happened. Some notes on this magnificent fall: Many of the stones are exceptionally fresh. Some with no visible oxidation. The snow has had little effect on the material and this is, in part, due to the constant very dry air moving across them. Even the stone found under water looked good. Meteorites found on top of vegetation looked like they fell that same day. Meteorite in contact with the soil, especially with broken surfaces, showed the most oxidation. The stone I found in the dung was broken in half with the exposed interior facing up, but had no visible oxidation. Apparently, cow poo has some anti-oxidizing properties :) Lots of flow lines on pieces, which is not so typical for H-type crust. Another magical life experience on the books. Mike Bandli ----- Original Message ----- From: "tett" To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 4:21:20 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Hello List, I have just returned from Buzzard Coulee after 4 exhausting days of travel and meteorite hunting. It was wonderful to experience the Prairies and to hunt with other meteorite enthusiasts. Hunted with friends from the Royal Ontario Museum, Patrick Herrmann, Rob Wessel and Mike Bandli. All of us were successful. Mike and Rob took me under there wings the first day out and shortly after starting with them I found a 90 gram individual with over 90% crust. I was on cloud 9! This stone turned out to be the largest our small group was going to find. After giving half of my haul back to the land owner, as payment for rights to hunt, I came home with just under 1/4 kilo (12 individuals). Will post some pictures soon. The plows are now working and it looks like the farmer's fields will be tilled any day now. However, there is much woodland to be searched and I am sure many fine specimens are waiting to be found. The woodlands will be extremely tough to search and it will take much more work to find anything compared to our field hunting. They may even prove impossible to search. Having walked over 50 km in 2 full days and 2 half days I now have a greater appreciation for how difficult it is to hunt for these treasures. Buzzard Coulee was easy compared to many and it still took about 3 km of walking (on average) before finding a stone. I don't think I would have been able to stand West where many hunters were lucky to find one stone in a day. Cheers! Mike (tett) Tettenborn Owen Sound, Ontario, Canada ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From majbaermann at web.de Wed May 6 11:41:37 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 17:41:37 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Hunt References: <1678751681.3442421241622867927.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Thanks for the great reports, Mike and tett, congratulations to you and all the other folks successfully recovering the precious heavenly stones. Met-made karma-chains, why not ... ;-) Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Bandli" To: "tett" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Hunt >A big congrats to Tett on his first ever find! We were all honored to be a >part of it and his reaction was both priceless and infectious. You couldn't >have asked for a better stone, really. Beautiful piece ad the Buzzard >definitely got him buzzed to find many more. > > Congrats to Patrick Herrmann for finding some exceptional stones as well. > That day our little gridding group was like a meteorite conveyor belt > cranking one out every 5 minutes or so. It is sad to see the machinery > getting prepped to mutilate the field, but it is planting time and > farmer's have to farm. > > Rob and I noted a few strange firsts (for us) during this trip. They are: > > Finding meteorite within 2 minutes of arrival at strewnfield. > Finding meteorite while tying shoe-lace. > Finding meteorite under water. > Finding meteorite embedded in cow dung. > Park car, open door to find meteorite. > Park car, get out, find one meteorite at the back of car and one at the > front. > > We noticed four (very) elderly folks walking the roads dragging magnet > canes across the gravel and stopped to talk. It became quickly obvious > that they had no idea what they were looking for when they asked if the > gravel dust on the bottom of their magnets was the meteorite. We didn't > have any stones with us at the moment so Rob and I decided to hop into the > field and see if we could find a stone to show them what they look like. > We looked at our watch to time how quickly we could find a meteorite and > within about 4 steps and under 30 seconds we found a stone. We quickly ran > back to the elderly group and presented them with their first rock from > space. The reactions were unforgettable. 4 more meteorite hunters born in > their 70's and warm, fuzzy feelings for everyone. We dubbed this the > 'Karma Stone' as it led to a chain of events taking us to a very fruitful > area that we wouldn't have hunted had that not happened. > > Some notes on this magnificent fall: > > Many of the stones are exceptionally fresh. Some with no visible > oxidation. The snow has had little effect on the material and this is, in > part, due to the constant very dry air moving across them. Even the stone > found under water looked good. Meteorites found on top of vegetation > looked like they fell that same day. Meteorite in contact with the soil, > especially with broken surfaces, showed the most oxidation. The stone I > found in the dung was broken in half with the exposed interior facing up, > but had no visible oxidation. Apparently, cow poo has some anti-oxidizing > properties :) Lots of flow lines on pieces, which is not so typical for > H-type crust. > > Another magical life experience on the books. > > Mike Bandli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tett" > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 4:21:20 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard > > Hello List, > > I have just returned from Buzzard Coulee after 4 exhausting days of > travel and meteorite hunting. It was wonderful to experience the > Prairies and to hunt with other meteorite enthusiasts. Hunted with > friends from the Royal Ontario Museum, Patrick Herrmann, Rob Wessel and > Mike Bandli. > > All of us were successful. Mike and Rob took me under there wings the > first day out and shortly after starting with them I found a 90 gram > individual with over 90% crust. I was on cloud 9! This stone turned > out to be the largest our small group was going to find. After giving > half of my haul back to the land owner, as payment for rights to hunt, I > came home with just under 1/4 kilo (12 individuals). Will post some > pictures soon. > > The plows are now working and it looks like the farmer's fields will be > tilled any day now. However, there is much woodland to be searched and > I am sure many fine specimens are waiting to be found. The woodlands > will be extremely tough to search and it will take much more work to > find anything compared to our field hunting. They may even prove > impossible to search. > > Having walked over 50 km in 2 full days and 2 half days I now have a > greater appreciation for how difficult it is to hunt for these > treasures. Buzzard Coulee was easy compared to many and it still took > about 3 km of walking (on average) before finding a stone. I don't > think I would have been able to stand West where many hunters were lucky > to find one stone in a day. > > Cheers! > > Mike (tett) Tettenborn > Owen Sound, Ontario, Canada > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Wed May 6 12:37:58 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 09:37:58 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites are like lumps of gold! Message-ID: <4A01BCE6.1030104@meteoritesusa.com> Meteor fragments on the prairies like lumps of gold Updated Wed. May. 6 2009 8:57 AM ET The Canadian Press BUZZARD COULEE, Sask. -- An asteroid that streaked across the skies over Canada's prairies last fall dropped a record number of fragments, including a bowling-ball sized chunk worth $400,000 that a selfless farmer has donated -- for free -- to the University of Calgary. "These meteorites are like lumps of gold with the same kind of value," said Dr. Alan Hildebrand, a planetary scientist with the University of Calgary. "Many people have come here to collect meteorites to sell them." The valuable bowling-ball sized piece, weighing 13 kilograms, was donated to the university by farmer Alex Mitchell. An oilfield worker found it on Mitchell's property and turned it over to him. "I was surprised by the weight for the mass," Mitchell said. "It's heavy for the size." Under Canadian law, meteorites may be bought and sold, but a federal permit is required to export them. Any found pieces are rightfully the property of the person owning the land where they fell. More than 1,000 pieces of the meteor, which fell from the sky Nov. 20 near the Alberta-Saskatchewan boundary south of Lloydminster, have been recovered so far. Scientists said Monday thousands more remain to be found now that snow has melted and the search has resumed. The previous record of 700 pieces was set after a meteor hit the ground in central Alberta in 1960. Hildebrand said searchers are finding dozens of meteorites a day. ARTICLE CONTINUED HERE: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090506/Meteor_fragments_090506/20090506?hub=SciTech -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed May 6 13:03:56 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 19:03:56 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites are like lumps of gold! In-Reply-To: <4A01BCE6.1030104@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A01BCE6.1030104@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <006301c9ce6c$a48c2e90$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Ehm really? So far 161,000 metric tons of gold were mined, but only approx 700 tons of meteorites are registered. (90% of them allotted on the 20 largest irons only). The kg of gold costs today around 28,400$. Most of the meteorites found in Sahara cost 25$-35$ per kg Most of the mass irons responsible for the most meteorites by mass cost below 1000$/kg. Similar or more expensive than gold are only a few rare types, new falls with low tkw and/or from Northern America and Europe, as well as all Antarctic finds. The scientific information obtainable from gold is limited, The information obtained through researching meteorites for science, culture and our understanding of the World is - priceless. :-) Martin (why reporters do have always such a limited fantasy...) -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Meteorites USA Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Mai 2009 18:38 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Meteorites are like lumps of gold! Meteor fragments on the prairies like lumps of gold Updated Wed. May. 6 2009 8:57 AM ET The Canadian Press BUZZARD COULEE, Sask. -- An asteroid that streaked across the skies over Canada's prairies last fall dropped a record number of fragments, including a bowling-ball sized chunk worth $400,000 that a selfless farmer has donated -- for free -- to the University of Calgary. "These meteorites are like lumps of gold with the same kind of value," said Dr. Alan Hildebrand, a planetary scientist with the University of Calgary. "Many people have come here to collect meteorites to sell them." The valuable bowling-ball sized piece, weighing 13 kilograms, was donated to the university by farmer Alex Mitchell. An oilfield worker found it on Mitchell's property and turned it over to him. "I was surprised by the weight for the mass," Mitchell said. "It's heavy for the size." Under Canadian law, meteorites may be bought and sold, but a federal permit is required to export them. Any found pieces are rightfully the property of the person owning the land where they fell. More than 1,000 pieces of the meteor, which fell from the sky Nov. 20 near the Alberta-Saskatchewan boundary south of Lloydminster, have been recovered so far. Scientists said Monday thousands more remain to be found now that snow has melted and the search has resumed. The previous record of 700 pieces was set after a meteor hit the ground in central Alberta in 1960. Hildebrand said searchers are finding dozens of meteorites a day. ARTICLE CONTINUED HERE: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090506/Meteor_fragment s_090506/20090506?hub=SciTech -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Wed May 6 13:30:44 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 10:30:44 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites are like lumps of gold! In-Reply-To: <006301c9ce6c$a48c2e90$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <4A01BCE6.1030104@meteoritesusa.com> <006301c9ce6c$a48c2e90$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <4A01C944.2020301@meteoritesusa.com> This is apples and oranges... Comparing meteorites to gold was merely and analogous representation of the overall commercial value of meteorites. NOT intended to suggest anything unrelated to science or to exclude science at all, and certainly not to disallow any scientific value discussion or expression. Meteorites do have great scientific value, however the commercial value cannot be ignored. To do so is naive and akin to an ostrich sticking his head in the sand. I do agree though, that the scientific knowledge gained from the study of meteorites is exponentially greater than any monetary value anyone could place on any meteorite that ever was or ever will be bought, sold, traded, or donated. In some ways they are in fact priceless. To own a piece of the stars, and to be able collect little bits of our universe older than Earth itself should be something everyone should be proud of, and something that everyone should know is possible. It should be automatic and natural for everyone and not limited to a select few. I for one am very happy that the meteorite world is being opened up and moving more toward the mainstream. This helps everyone in the long run. Need for understanding is the fuel that drives the true meteorite enthusiast, whether that person be a scientist, collector, dealer, or hunter does not matter, what matters is knowledge and the pursuit of it. I really think we're saying the same thing, but from different views. Regards, Eric Martin Altmann wrote: > Ehm really? > > So far 161,000 metric tons of gold were mined, > but only approx 700 tons of meteorites are registered. > (90% of them allotted on the 20 largest irons only). > > The kg of gold costs today around 28,400$. > > Most of the meteorites found in Sahara cost 25$-35$ per kg > Most of the mass irons responsible for the most meteorites by mass cost > below 1000$/kg. > > Similar or more expensive than gold are only a few rare types, > new falls with low tkw and/or from Northern America and Europe, > as well as all Antarctic finds. > > The scientific information obtainable from gold is limited, > The information obtained through researching meteorites for science, culture > and our understanding of the World is - priceless. > > :-) > Martin > > (why reporters do have always such a limited fantasy...) > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Meteorites USA > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Mai 2009 18:38 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] Meteorites are like lumps of gold! > > > Meteor fragments on the prairies like lumps of gold > Updated Wed. May. 6 2009 8:57 AM ET > The Canadian Press > > BUZZARD COULEE, Sask. -- An asteroid that streaked across the skies over > Canada's prairies last fall dropped a record number of fragments, > including a bowling-ball sized chunk worth $400,000 that a selfless > farmer has donated -- for free -- to the University of Calgary. > > "These meteorites are like lumps of gold with the same kind of value," > said Dr. Alan Hildebrand, a planetary scientist with the University of > Calgary. > > "Many people have come here to collect meteorites to sell them." > > The valuable bowling-ball sized piece, weighing 13 kilograms, was > donated to the university by farmer Alex Mitchell. > > An oilfield worker found it on Mitchell's property and turned it over to > him. > > "I was surprised by the weight for the mass," Mitchell said. "It's heavy > for the size." > > Under Canadian law, meteorites may be bought and sold, but a federal > permit is required to export them. Any found pieces are rightfully the > property of the person owning the land where they fell. > > More than 1,000 pieces of the meteor, which fell from the sky Nov. 20 > near the Alberta-Saskatchewan boundary south of Lloydminster, have been > recovered so far. > > Scientists said Monday thousands more remain to be found now that snow > has melted and the search has resumed. > > The previous record of 700 pieces was set after a meteor hit the ground > in central Alberta in 1960. > > Hildebrand said searchers are finding dozens of meteorites a day. > > ARTICLE CONTINUED HERE: > http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090506/Meteor_fragment > s_090506/20090506?hub=SciTech > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From pekka.savolainen at dlc.fi Wed May 6 13:43:15 2009 From: pekka.savolainen at dlc.fi (Pekka Savolainen) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 20:43:15 +0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites are like lumps of gold! In-Reply-To: <4A01C944.2020301@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A01BCE6.1030104@meteoritesusa.com> <006301c9ce6c$a48c2e90$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <4A01C944.2020301@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <4A01CC33.1050101@dlc.fi> > This is apples and oranges... How about some girls best friends (carbon)? "Approximately 130 million carats (26,000 kg (57,000 lb)) diamonds are mined annually, with a total value of nearly USD $ 9 billion , and about 100,000 kg (220,000 lb) are synthesized annually." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond best, pekka s ^ > > Comparing meteorites to gold was merely and analogous representation of > the overall commercial value of meteorites. NOT intended to suggest > anything unrelated to science or to exclude science at all, and > certainly not to disallow any scientific value discussion or expression. > Meteorites do have great scientific value, however the commercial value > cannot be ignored. To do so is naive and akin to an ostrich sticking his > head in the sand. > > I do agree though, that the scientific knowledge gained from the study > of meteorites is exponentially greater than any monetary value anyone > could place on any meteorite that ever was or ever will be bought, sold, > traded, or donated. In some ways they are in fact priceless. > > To own a piece of the stars, and to be able collect little bits of our > universe older than Earth itself should be something everyone should be > proud of, and something that everyone should know is possible. It should > be automatic and natural for everyone and not limited to a select few. I > for one am very happy that the meteorite world is being opened up and > moving more toward the mainstream. This helps everyone in the long run. > > Need for understanding is the fuel that drives the true meteorite > enthusiast, whether that person be a scientist, collector, dealer, or > hunter does not matter, what matters is knowledge and the pursuit of it. > > I really think we're saying the same thing, but from different views. > > Regards, > Eric > > > > > > Martin Altmann wrote: >> Ehm really? >> >> So far 161,000 metric tons of gold were mined, >> but only approx 700 tons of meteorites are registered. >> (90% of them allotted on the 20 largest irons only). >> >> The kg of gold costs today around 28,400$. >> >> Most of the meteorites found in Sahara cost 25$-35$ per kg >> Most of the mass irons responsible for the most meteorites by mass cost >> below 1000$/kg. >> >> Similar or more expensive than gold are only a few rare types, >> new falls with low tkw and/or from Northern America and Europe, >> as well as all Antarctic finds. >> >> The scientific information obtainable from gold is limited, >> The information obtained through researching meteorites for science, >> culture >> and our understanding of the World is - priceless. >> >> :-) >> Martin >> >> (why reporters do have always such a limited fantasy...) >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von >> Meteorites USA >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. Mai 2009 18:38 >> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Meteorites are like lumps of gold! >> >> >> Meteor fragments on the prairies like lumps of gold >> Updated Wed. May. 6 2009 8:57 AM ET >> The Canadian Press >> >> BUZZARD COULEE, Sask. -- An asteroid that streaked across the skies >> over Canada's prairies last fall dropped a record number of >> fragments, including a bowling-ball sized chunk worth $400,000 that a >> selfless farmer has donated -- for free -- to the University of Calgary. >> >> "These meteorites are like lumps of gold with the same kind of >> value," said Dr. Alan Hildebrand, a planetary scientist with the >> University of Calgary. >> >> "Many people have come here to collect meteorites to sell them." >> >> The valuable bowling-ball sized piece, weighing 13 kilograms, was >> donated to the university by farmer Alex Mitchell. >> >> An oilfield worker found it on Mitchell's property and turned it over >> to him. >> >> "I was surprised by the weight for the mass," Mitchell said. "It's >> heavy for the size." >> >> Under Canadian law, meteorites may be bought and sold, but a federal >> permit is required to export them. Any found pieces are rightfully >> the property of the person owning the land where they fell. >> >> More than 1,000 pieces of the meteor, which fell from the sky Nov. 20 >> near the Alberta-Saskatchewan boundary south of Lloydminster, have >> been recovered so far. >> >> Scientists said Monday thousands more remain to be found now that >> snow has melted and the search has resumed. >> >> The previous record of 700 pieces was set after a meteor hit the >> ground in central Alberta in 1960. >> >> Hildebrand said searchers are finding dozens of meteorites a day. >> >> ARTICLE CONTINUED HERE: >> http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090506/Meteor_fragment >> >> s_090506/20090506?hub=SciTech >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.20/2100 - Release Date: 05/06/09 06:04:00 > > -- Solar Gems Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FI-71330 Rasala FINLAND GSM + 358 400 818 912 pekka.savolainen at dlc.fi Member of IMCA 5776 www.imca.cc From GeoZay at aol.com Wed May 6 14:03:36 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 14:03:36 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites are like lumps of gold! Message-ID: >>To own a piece of the stars.... If you really want a piece of the stars, just go to your local hardware store and buy some iron nails. After all, they were at one time in the cores of a star and they're cheaper too. :O) GeoZay **************Big savings on Dell?s most popular laptops. Now starting at $449! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221827510x1201399090/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214663377%3B36502382%3Bh) From meteoritemike at gmail.com Wed May 6 14:07:54 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:07:54 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites are like lumps of gold! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In the same manner, we are all made of starstuff. The atoms in our bodies were born in supernovae! :) On 5/6/09, GeoZay at aol.com wrote: >>>To own a piece of the stars.... > > If you really want a piece of the stars, just go to your local hardware > store and buy some iron nails. After all, they were at one time in the > cores > of a star and they're cheaper too. :O) > GeoZay > > **************Big savings on Dell?s most popular laptops. Now starting at > $449! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221827510x1201399090/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214663377%3B36502382%3Bh) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From geoking at notkin.net Wed May 6 16:20:00 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 13:20:00 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" Trailer Message-ID: <214ABFA9-7141-4636-B902-CFAC210FE858@notkin.net> Dear Listees: Our production company has uploaded a short "Meteorite Men" trailer to YouTube. We hope you enjoy watching it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibzfrik1OSw Oops! I was just accused of being "overly serious," in the promo : ) With best wishes, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com From tett at rogers.com Wed May 6 17:08:57 2009 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 17:08:57 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Hunt Images In-Reply-To: <1678751681.3442421241622867927.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1678751681.3442421241622867927.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A01FC69.7040707@rogers.com> All, Here are some images of my Buzzard trip this past weekend. http://picasaweb.google.com/MikeTettenborn/BuzzardCoulee# Cheers, Mike (tett) Tettenborn Owen Sound, Ontario, Canada From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Wed May 6 17:16:52 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 06 May 2009 21:16:52 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Hunt Images Message-ID: Mike T. wrote: "Here are some images of my Buzzard trip this past weekend. http://picasaweb.google.com/MikeTettenborn/BuzzardCoulee# Mike and List, Thank you so very much for these "hunting scenes". The pic I love very much is the one of the Chinese lady showing off her Buzzard Coulee gift! I could hardly wait for these pics and at least five persons know why. These five persons are Mike T., his wonderful wife Martha, my wife, myself and Twink ;-) Best from the proud owner of a Buzzard Coulee H4 chondrite from Roman ... soon there'll be two Buzzard Coulees in my collection ;-) Bernd From darryl at dof3.com Wed May 6 19:26:14 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 19:26:14 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Hunt In-Reply-To: <1678751681.3442421241622867927.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1678751681.3442421241622867927.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <88643969-837D-4E7D-BAA1-3EAB48914BAC@dof3.com> Hi, Loved this email. Really great stuff. Congratulations to all. It sounds like this was great fun. All the best / Darryl On May 6, 2009, at 11:14 AM, Mike Bandli wrote: > A big congrats to Tett on his first ever find! We were all honored > to be a part of it and his reaction was both priceless and > infectious. You couldn't have asked for a better stone, really. > Beautiful piece ad the Buzzard definitely got him buzzed to find > many more. > > Congrats to Patrick Herrmann for finding some exceptional stones as > well. That day our little gridding group was like a meteorite > conveyor belt cranking one out every 5 minutes or so. It is sad to > see the machinery getting prepped to mutilate the field, but it is > planting time and farmer's have to farm. > > Rob and I noted a few strange firsts (for us) during this trip. They > are: > > Finding meteorite within 2 minutes of arrival at strewnfield. > Finding meteorite while tying shoe-lace. > Finding meteorite under water. > Finding meteorite embedded in cow dung. > Park car, open door to find meteorite. > Park car, get out, find one meteorite at the back of car and one at > the front. > > We noticed four (very) elderly folks walking the roads dragging > magnet canes across the gravel and stopped to talk. It became > quickly obvious that they had no idea what they were looking for > when they asked if the gravel dust on the bottom of their magnets > was the meteorite. We didn't have any stones with us at the moment > so Rob and I decided to hop into the field and see if we could find > a stone to show them what they look like. We looked at our watch to > time how quickly we could find a meteorite and within about 4 steps > and under 30 seconds we found a stone. We quickly ran back to the > elderly group and presented them with their first rock from space. > The reactions were unforgettable. 4 more meteorite hunters born in > their 70's and warm, fuzzy feelings for everyone. We dubbed this the > 'Karma Stone' as it led to a chain of events taking us to a very > fruitful area that we wouldn't have hunted had that not happened. > > Some notes on this magnificent fall: > > Many of the stones are exceptionally fresh. Some with no visible > oxidation. The snow has had little effect on the material and this > is, in part, due to the constant very dry air moving across them. > Even the stone found under water looked good. Meteorites found on > top of vegetation looked like they fell that same day. Meteorite in > contact with the soil, especially with broken surfaces, showed the > most oxidation. The stone I found in the dung was broken in half > with the exposed interior facing up, but had no visible oxidation. > Apparently, cow poo has some anti-oxidizing properties :) Lots of > flow lines on pieces, which is not so typical for H-type crust. > > Another magical life experience on the books. > > Mike Bandli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tett" > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2009 4:21:20 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific > Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard > > Hello List, > > I have just returned from Buzzard Coulee after 4 exhausting days of > travel and meteorite hunting. It was wonderful to experience the > Prairies and to hunt with other meteorite enthusiasts. Hunted with > friends from the Royal Ontario Museum, Patrick Herrmann, Rob Wessel > and > Mike Bandli. > > All of us were successful. Mike and Rob took me under there wings the > first day out and shortly after starting with them I found a 90 gram > individual with over 90% crust. I was on cloud 9! This stone turned > out to be the largest our small group was going to find. After giving > half of my haul back to the land owner, as payment for rights to > hunt, I > came home with just under 1/4 kilo (12 individuals). Will post some > pictures soon. > > The plows are now working and it looks like the farmer's fields will > be > tilled any day now. However, there is much woodland to be searched and > I am sure many fine specimens are waiting to be found. The woodlands > will be extremely tough to search and it will take much more work to > find anything compared to our field hunting. They may even prove > impossible to search. > > Having walked over 50 km in 2 full days and 2 half days I now have a > greater appreciation for how difficult it is to hunt for these > treasures. Buzzard Coulee was easy compared to many and it still took > about 3 km of walking (on average) before finding a stone. I don't > think I would have been able to stand West where many hunters were > lucky > to find one stone in a day. > > Cheers! > > Mike (tett) Tettenborn > Owen Sound, Ontario, Canada > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bristolia at yahoo.com Wed May 6 21:13:40 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 18:13:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] New Google Search Pages for PDF and Powerpoint Files Message-ID: <352289.20035.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Friends, The URLs to these pages are: 1. For Internet Powerpoint files: http://www.powerpoint-search.com/ 2. For Internet PDF files: http://www.pdf-search-engine.com/ Some interesting searches are: http://www.ebook-search-engine.com/meteorites-ebook-all.html http://www.powerpoint-search.com/meteorites-ppt.html http://www.powerpoint-search.com/shocked-quartz-ppt.html http://www.powerpoint-search.com/asteroids-ppt.html http://www.powerpoint-search.com/meteor-crater-ppt.html http://www.ebook-search-engine.com/asteroids-ebook-all.html http://www.powerpoint-search.com/chondrites-ppt.html http://www.pdf-search-engine.com/search.php?search=pallasites Have Fun Paul H. From argotron at gmail.com Thu May 7 01:43:42 2009 From: argotron at gmail.com (Alex Gotron) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 08:43:42 +0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Google Search Pages for PDF and Powerpoint Files In-Reply-To: <352289.20035.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <352289.20035.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Google operators can do the trick too, just do a search beginning with filetype:pdf or filetype:ppt Claudiu. On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 4:13 AM, Paul wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > The URLs to these pages are: > > 1. For Internet Powerpoint files: > > http://www.powerpoint-search.com/ > > 2. For Internet PDF files: > > http://www.pdf-search-engine.com/ > > Some interesting searches are: > > http://www.ebook-search-engine.com/meteorites-ebook-all.html > > http://www.powerpoint-search.com/meteorites-ppt.html > > http://www.powerpoint-search.com/shocked-quartz-ppt.html > > http://www.powerpoint-search.com/asteroids-ppt.html > > http://www.powerpoint-search.com/meteor-crater-ppt.html > > http://www.ebook-search-engine.com/asteroids-ebook-all.html > > http://www.powerpoint-search.com/chondrites-ppt.html > > http://www.pdf-search-engine.com/search.php?search=pallasites > > Have Fun > > Paul H. > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Thu May 7 04:13:41 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 04:13:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Google Search Pages for PDF and Powerpoint Files In-Reply-To: <352289.20035.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <352289.20035.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Excellent links! Thanks, Paul. I almost wish I had two broken legs so I could justify the time needed in front of the computer exploring it all. Here's a search engine I've been meaning to post: http://tineye.com/ http://tineye.com/ It's a reverse image search, for those concerned about who's been using copywritten photos without permission, or if you want to search for a higher resolution copy of a favourite pic. Cheers, Pete ---------------------------------------- > Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 18:13:40 -0700 > From: bristolia at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] New Google Search Pages for PDF and Powerpoint Files > > > Dear Friends, > > The URLs to these pages are: > > 1. For Internet Powerpoint files: > > http://www.powerpoint-search.com/ > > 2. For Internet PDF files: > > http://www.pdf-search-engine.com/ > > Some interesting searches are: > > http://www.ebook-search-engine.com/meteorites-ebook-all.html > > http://www.powerpoint-search.com/meteorites-ppt.html > > http://www.powerpoint-search.com/shocked-quartz-ppt.html > > http://www.powerpoint-search.com/asteroids-ppt.html > > http://www.powerpoint-search.com/meteor-crater-ppt.html > > http://www.ebook-search-engine.com/asteroids-ebook-all.html > > http://www.powerpoint-search.com/chondrites-ppt.html > > http://www.pdf-search-engine.com/search.php?search=pallasites > > Have Fun > > Paul H. > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Thu May 7 05:28:10 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 05:28:10 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 7, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_7_2009.html __________________________ **************Big savings on Dell?s most popular laptops. Now starting at $449! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222382499x1201454962/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214663472%3B36502367%3Bg) From gsac at gmx.net Thu May 7 06:42:39 2009 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 12:42:39 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 7, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090507104239.53170@gmx.net> > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_7_2009.html Wow, what a stone! They have 20 kg in Perth, according to MetBase. I wonder whether it is all in this single specimen. Does anyone know the mass of the stone pictured? Ted? Best, Alex Berlin/Germany From metlist at plu.to Thu May 7 07:15:05 2009 From: metlist at plu.to (matt) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 12:15:05 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Wanted: 'Giveaways' for Children Message-ID: <4A02C2B9.3010809@plu.to> I am a science teacher in the UK, currently preparing to give a series of presentations on meteorites to groups of our Y9 students (13-14 years old). I would like to be able to give each of the students a rock to take home. A number of years ago a member of our community generously gave me a number of slices of NWA 869 and other stones which I was able to giveaway, I've also used a lot of small unclassified fragments of my own as giveaways, after I asked students to sand a corner off and look inside, but these have mostly run-out now. This year things are on a bigger scale, I'm giving 3 presentations, to 25-30 students each time. Would anybody be able to donate some material I could use for this purpose? There must be lots of small fragments out there that perhaps too small to sell, but would still give a sense of awe and wonder to my students! We can probably manage some expenditure, but I'm under pressure to keep this to an absolute minimum. Any help would be gratefully received. Regards, Matt. From meteoriteshow at free.fr Thu May 7 09:28:50 2009 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 13:28:50 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday Message-ID: <003601c9cf17$cd577c70$91fea8c0@T42> Dear Listees, Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow They include: 1- Al Haggounia 001 PRIM. AUB. - 40.3g Slice, dimensions: 73x56x5mm. Shipped in a display box (see photos*). * The slice shown in the display box is not the one offered, but the box is the same http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330325897206 2- DAG 573 L4 - 17.9g full slice, dimensions 55x52x3mm Lots of sharply defined chondrules in a grey matrix & metal flakes, fusion crust all around. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330325897264 3- DaG 951 - L5 - 10.6g partslice, dimensions 43x27x4mm Quite highly metamorphized and displaying nice metal flakes. STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330325897314 4- EL AROUSS L-IMB (unclas.) - 198.9g SLICE, dimensions:135x109x4mm. Beautiful IMB with nice metal flakes & veins and vesiculated cavities. SUCH A PARTSLICE SIZE IS VERY RARE... DESSERT PLATE'S SIZE!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330325897391 5- NWA 859 (Taza) IRON UNGR. - 15.8g oriented, dimensions ~32x20x10mm. Beautiful shape with rollover lips. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330325897474 6- SAH 02500 L3 - 224.4g CRUSTED INDIVIDUAL, dimensions: 87x42x40mm. ~ 80 to 90% of the surface is covered by a desert varnished fusion crust. Beautiful Shape. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330325897536 Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!! Kind regards, Frederic Beroud http://www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/) From rlenssen at planet.nl Thu May 7 12:15:37 2009 From: rlenssen at planet.nl (Rob Lenssen) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 18:15:37 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: several fresh L3.2 NWA5730 ending at Ebay - started at $0.01 Message-ID: Dear List, For the "chondrule lovers': I have several Ebay auctions of the fresh NWA 5730 (L3.2 S2 W1) ending tomorrow. All but one started at $0.01, and some still are. http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/rob1612mar Thanks, Rob IMCA #1681 From cynapse at charter.net Thu May 7 14:21:29 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 13:21:29 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bunbura Roskhole-- new Australian fall In-Reply-To: <352289.20035.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <352289.20035.qm@web36204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://praguemonitor.com/2009/05/07/czechs-uncover-rare-meteorite-australia Czechs uncover rare meteorite in Australia C(TK | 7 May 2009 Prague, May 6 (CTK) - Czech astronomers have counted the trajectory and the landing of a rare meteorite from the inner Solar System and found its fragments in southwest Australia, along with their Australian and British colleagues, Pavel Spurny, from the Academy' Astronomic Institute, said Wednesday. The astronomers have called the meteorite Bunbura Roskhole, which means a black pearl. The meteorite was detected by a new bolide network in Nullarbor desert that Spurny and his British and Australian colleagues have installed. It has been the fifth meteorite with its "genealogy" in the world, said Spurny, head of the interplanetary mass section. Three of them were fully mapped by Czech astronomers, who have ranked among top experts in this field for decades, while the U.S. and Canadian teams mapped one each. Czechs have created the European bolide network the most important part of which is exactly the Czech network of monitoring stations. The network in Nullarbor desert covers the area of 200,000 square kilometres, which is 2.5 times larger than the Czech Republic. Spurny said the Australian bolide collided with the Earth on the trajectory crossing the inner Solar System. "For the first time in history astronomers have a solid body with this trajectory in their hands," Spurny stressed. They found three small fragments of the meteorite weighing from 150 to 180 grammes, called "achondrites" - stony meteorites from large cosmic bodies of the Solar System that consist of material similar to terrestrial basalts and do not contain iron. Experts succeeded in determining the area of the meteorite landing very precisely. The astronomers are now testing the findings. They are convinced that they will soon identify the matrix body which the bolide comes from, Spurny said. From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Thu May 7 13:40:58 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (raremeteorites at yahoo.com) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 10:40:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Nininger Estate Items Clarification Message-ID: <515595.54702.qm@web30705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Deal List Members, I just wanted to make a clarification on the Nininger estate items currently listed on Ebay. An overwhelming amount of emails have come in with offers on individual pieces. I was accepting offers on all 18 items together, not separately in a final attempt to keep the collection together.? The time for offers on the entire set has now expired. Do not be afraid to bid because most items are one-of-a-kind and will never be available again. Anything associated with H.H. Nininger (the "Father of Modern Meteoritics") is extremely difficult to obtain and is highly collectible. These auctions are priced at an absolute steal so you may not want to wait until the last minute to bid. I do need to move these items out quickly.? The moving van arrived while this was being written and I simply do not have room.??I am paying for two storage areas and need to clear these out as well. I will be getting into my safes soon to reduce my inventory for a insurance rate reduction so stay tuned. ?Lots of great deals will be had by many in the up and coming weeks. All Auctions Can Be Found At This link: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Best Regards, Adam From volcanoted at yahoo.com Thu May 7 14:21:29 2009 From: volcanoted at yahoo.com (ted brattstrom) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 11:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 7, 2009 In-Reply-To: <20090507104239.53170@gmx.net> Message-ID: <369498.55400.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Aloha - Alas, the mass of the rocks presented at the museum were not listed on the labels, and for some reason there was a pane of glass between me and the rock, so I couldn't pick it up or weigh it :-).... (for the bigger irons, there wasn't any glass :-) ) There must be a list somewhere at the museum. Anyone in Perth? cheers - ted --- On Thu, 5/7/09, Alexander Seidel wrote: > From: Alexander Seidel > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 7, 2009 > Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 12:42 AM > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_7_2009.html > > Wow, what a stone! They have 20 kg in Perth, according > to MetBase. I wonder whether it is all in this single > specimen. Does anyone know the mass of the stone pictured? > Ted? > > Best, > Alex > Berlin/Germany From gsac at gmx.net Thu May 7 15:18:24 2009 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 21:18:24 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 7, 2009 In-Reply-To: <369498.55400.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <369498.55400.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090507191824.170590@gmx.net> I found this in the description section of MetBase, and may be this is also the text in the BMNH catalog (P.S. don?t have that one available for lookup here at my secondary place to live)...: "Station workers observed a fireball in October 1960 while opening a gate in the boundary fence on the Millbillillie-Jundee track and an object appeared to fell 'with sparks coming off it' into a spinifex plain to their north. No search was initiated at that time, but in 1970 and 1971 the first two specimens, the larger one weighing 20kg, were found..." ...so from this info, and the info that 20 kg are in the Perth museum, I would conclude it is very probable that the stone pictured weighs 20 kg and is one of the first two finds of 1970/1971. [Btw: interesting they obviously did not look for fallen meteorites in that place for a whole decade]. Alex Berlin/Germany > Aloha - > > Alas, the mass of the rocks presented at the museum were not listed on the > labels, and for some reason there was a pane of glass between me and the > rock, so I couldn't pick it up or weigh it :-).... (for the bigger irons, > there wasn't any glass :-) ) > > There must be a list somewhere at the museum. Anyone in Perth? > > cheers - ted > > > --- On Thu, 5/7/09, Alexander Seidel wrote: > > > From: Alexander Seidel > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May > 7, 2009 > > Date: Thursday, May 7, 2009, 12:42 AM > > > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_7_2009.html > > > > Wow, what a stone! They have 20 kg in Perth, according > > to MetBase. I wonder whether it is all in this single > > specimen. Does anyone know the mass of the stone pictured? > > Ted? > > > > Best, > > Alex > > Berlin/Germany > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com Thu May 7 16:07:59 2009 From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 13:07:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" Trailer Message-ID: Geoff, it looks like you are the straight man of the duo, with Steve playing the comic relief. Not a bad idea. Works for the Mythbusters and others. Carl Geoff wrote: ...Oops! I was just accused of being "overly serious," in the promo : )... _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 From mpg4444 at gmail.com Thu May 7 21:02:32 2009 From: mpg4444 at gmail.com (Michael Groetz) Date: Thu, 7 May 2009 21:02:32 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Czechs uncover rare meteorite in Australia Message-ID: http://praguemonitor.com/2009/05/07/czechs-uncover-rare-meteorite-australia Czechs uncover rare meteorite in Australia 7 May 2009 Prague, May 6 (CTK) - Czech astronomers have counted the trajectory and the landing of a rare meteorite from the inner Solar System and found its fragments in southwest Australia, along with their Australian and British colleagues, Pavel Spurny, from the Academy' Astronomic Institute, said Wednesday. The astronomers have called the meteorite Bunbura Roskhole, which means a black pearl. The meteorite was detected by a new bolide network in Nullarbor desert that Spurny and his British and Australian colleagues have installed. It has been the fifth meteorite with its "genealogy" in the world, said Spurny, head of the interplanetary mass section. Three of them were fully mapped by Czech astronomers, who have ranked among top experts in this field for decades, while the U.S. and Canadian teams mapped one each. Czechs have created the European bolide network the most important part of which is exactly the Czech network of monitoring stations. The network in Nullarbor desert covers the area of 200,000 square kilometres, which is 2.5 times larger than the Czech Republic. Spurny said the Australian bolide collided with the Earth on the trajectory crossing the inner Solar System. "For the first time in history astronomers have a solid body with this trajectory in their hands," Spurny stressed. They found three small fragments of the meteorite weighing from 150 to 180 grammes, called "achondrites" - stony meteorites from large cosmic bodies of the Solar System that consist of material similar to terrestrial basalts and do not contain iron. Experts succeeded in determining the area of the meteorite landing very precisely. The astronomers are now testing the findings. They are convinced that they will soon identify the matrix body which the bolide comes from, Spurny said. From grf2 at verizon.net Thu May 7 23:32:34 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Thu, 07 May 2009 23:32:34 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: New Issue: Mars' Basaltic Crust Message-ID: more basalt ----- Original Message ----- From: "PSRD" To: Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 10:24 PM Subject: New Issue: Mars' Basaltic Crust > Announcement from Planetary Science Research Discoveries [PSRD] > > New article online: Mars Crust: Made of Basalt > > -- Chemical analyses of rocks on the Martian surface indicate that the > Martian crust was built of basalt lava flows not much different from those > on Earth. > > --------- > We invite you to: > READ: First summary paragraph for a quick overview > PRINT: pdf version > VIEW: short slide summary > --------- > FULL ARTICLE at: > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/May09/Mars.Basaltic.Crust.html > --------- > > FIND MORE IN OUR ARCHIVES: > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Archive/Contents.html > --------- > > PSRD is an educational web site supported by NASA's SMD Cosmochemistry > Program and the Hawaii Space Grant Consortium to share the latest research > on meteorites, planets, moons, and other bodies in our Solar System. > > You are subscribed to our free mailing list. > We never send attachments. > For more information please see > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/PSRDsubscribe.html > > --------- > Jeff Taylor and Linda Martel > Hawaii Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, > University of Hawaii > psrd at higp.hawaii.edu > voice (808) 956-3899 > fax (808) 956-6322 > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri May 8 04:27:17 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 01:27:17 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? Message-ID: <4A03ECE5.3000401@meteoritesusa.com> Does anyone remember or know what came of this? http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/01/070105-space-rock.html -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From tett at rogers.com Fri May 8 06:36:37 2009 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 06:36:37 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: Buzzard sale piece In-Reply-To: <88643969-837D-4E7D-BAA1-3EAB48914BAC@dof3.com> References: <1678751681.3442421241622867927.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <88643969-837D-4E7D-BAA1-3EAB48914BAC@dof3.com> Message-ID: <4A040B35.6080401@rogers.com> List, I have a few Buzzard Coulee pieces for sale. I have already sold some and donated a few to the ROM and now have three gorgeous individuals for sale. All three pieces are ~100% fusion crusted and as fresh as they come from this spring hunt. They look as fresh as my piece that was picked up very shortly after the fall. The deal: -If these cross the Canadian border I will apply for an export permit. The buyer will need to pay up front and wait until the export permit is granted. This could take upwards of 6+ months. Should the permit not be granted then all the cash will be returned. -Shipping is free world wide. Standard airmail. -Buyer will also receive a digital copy of the picture taken in situ showing the stone before being touched by human hands. -These three stones have find coordinates. If you are interested in any of these stones please email me off list for cost. Cheers and thanks for looking, Mike (tett) Tettenborn Owen Sound, Ontario, Canada From tett at rogers.com Fri May 8 06:49:42 2009 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 06:49:42 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: Buzzard sale piece In-Reply-To: <4A040B35.6080401@rogers.com> References: <1678751681.3442421241622867927.JavaMail.root@sz0063a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <88643969-837D-4E7D-BAA1-3EAB48914BAC@dof3.com> <4A040B35.6080401@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4A040E46.2060605@rogers.com> List, Sorry. Forgot to share the pictures. I can email more pictures to anyone interested See: http://picasaweb.google.com/MikeTettenborn/BuzzardCouleeSalePieces#. Cheers, Mike tett wrote: > List, > > I have a few Buzzard Coulee pieces for sale. I have already sold some > and donated a few to the ROM and now have three gorgeous individuals > for sale. > > All three pieces are ~100% fusion crusted and as fresh as they come > from this spring hunt. They look as fresh as my piece that was picked > up very shortly after the fall. > > The deal: > -If these cross the Canadian border I will apply for an export > permit. The buyer will need to pay up front and wait until the export > permit is granted. This could take upwards of 6+ months. Should the > permit not be granted then all the cash will be returned. > -Shipping is free world wide. Standard airmail. > -Buyer will also receive a digital copy of the picture taken in situ > showing the stone before being touched by human hands. > -These three stones have find coordinates. > > If you are interested in any of these stones please email me off list > for cost. > > Cheers and thanks for looking, > > Mike (tett) Tettenborn > Owen Sound, Ontario, Canada > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From drtanuki at yahoo.com Fri May 8 07:29:20 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 04:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA scientist begins search for Merced, California meteorite Message-ID: <706084.71049.qm@web53206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List, Another meteorite search has begun. Marc Fries, a list member, is in the news: http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Fri May 8 07:49:46 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 07:49:46 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 8, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_8_2009.html __________________________ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =May5509AvgfooterNO115) From darryl at dof3.com Fri May 8 08:20:05 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 08:20:05 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? In-Reply-To: <4A03ECE5.3000401@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A03ECE5.3000401@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <799BA6A2-175C-4D68-AFE8-F5668CF47EFE@dof3.com> Obviously at the outset a meteorwrong....but somehow required months to establish after a team of scientists from Rutgers declared it was a meteorite. With no visual or sonic phenomena to accompany the low altitude explosion, which would have been the only explanation for such a shape and striated surface character without fusion crust, there was no way this was a meteorite. I vigorously pointed out to the local newspapers and Rutgers this couldn't possibly be a meteorite to no avail. I was on a live FOX radio show where they literally took me off the air after having called me to ask what I thought of the "new meteorite." When I pointed out that it was unlikely this was a meteorite, they pointed out "And you have a degree in what?" and upon my answer cut to a commercial and I was toast. Months after Rutgers put the object on display in their natural history museum---for which they attracted their largest crowds ever--- it was publicly acknowledged the origin of this object was of earthly provenance. On May 8, 2009, at 4:27 AM, Meteorites USA wrote: > Does anyone remember or know what came of this? > > http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/01/070105-space-rock.html > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cojack at tiscali.it Fri May 8 08:44:13 2009 From: cojack at tiscali.it (Francesco Moser) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 14:44:13 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite colored etching Message-ID: <8123F25987B3491E895EE5D148FF346D@fisso> Hello! Generally for etching meteorite it's used the Nital compound. There are also some reagents that produce a colored etching. Could someone indicate me a link or give me some informations about this technique? I have find these: Fig. 8 Gibeon, Beraha reagent http://www.china-metallography.com/china-met02/04-colour/colour017.htm http://www.metbase.de/gallery/meteorites.html I would like to try to color etching an end piece of Campo! But I need some tip... Thanks a lot! <><><><> Francesco Moser IMCA #1510 From peterscherff at rcn.com Fri May 8 08:56:38 2009 From: peterscherff at rcn.com (Peter Scherff) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 08:56:38 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite colored etching In-Reply-To: <8123F25987B3491E895EE5D148FF346D@fisso> References: <8123F25987B3491E895EE5D148FF346D@fisso> Message-ID: <000301c9cfdc$6dc1ec30$4945c490$@com> Hi Francesco, There is an article in the November, 2001 issue of Meteorite magazine. In the article Maria Elizabeth Zucolotto & Victor da Carvalho Klein give detailed directions on what they call Tint Etching. Thanks, Peter Scherff -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Francesco Moser Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 8:44 AM To: ZZ ML Meteorite-List Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite colored etching Hello! Generally for etching meteorite it's used the Nital compound. There are also some reagents that produce a colored etching. Could someone indicate me a link or give me some informations about this technique? I have find these: Fig. 8 Gibeon, Beraha reagent http://www.china-metallography.com/china-met02/04-colour/colour017.htm http://www.metbase.de/gallery/meteorites.html I would like to try to color etching an end piece of Campo! But I need some tip... Thanks a lot! <><><><> Francesco Moser IMCA #1510 ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri May 8 09:07:56 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 08:07:56 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? In-Reply-To: <799BA6A2-175C-4D68-AFE8-F5668CF47EFE@dof3.com> References: <4A03ECE5.3000401@meteoritesusa.com> <799BA6A2-175C-4D68-AFE8-F5668CF47EFE@dof3.com> Message-ID: Darryl said - "With no visual or sonic phenomena to accompany the low altitude explosion, which would have been the only explanation for such a shape and striated surface character without fusion crust, there was no way this was a meteorite. I vigorously pointed out to the local newspapers and Rutgers this couldn't possibly be a meteorite to no avail. I was on a live FOX radio show where they literally took me off the air after having called me to ask what I thought of the "new meteorite." When I pointed out that it was unlikely this was a meteorite, they pointed out "And you have a degree in what?" and upon my answer cut to a commercial and I was toast." Apparently common sense requires a college degree - in which case the entire Fox staff and their owner should go acquire some. But I don't think there is enough common sense on the entire global market to fill the void of same within the halls of Fox. ;) I am sorry they treated you that way Darryl. They had no idea what a class and knowledgeable meteorite figure they had in their midst. On 5/8/09, Darryl Pitt wrote: > > Obviously at the outset a meteorwrong....but somehow required months > to establish after a team of scientists from Rutgers declared it was a > meteorite. > > With no visual or sonic phenomena to accompany the low altitude > explosion, which would have been the only explanation for such a shape > and striated surface character without fusion crust, there was no way > this was a meteorite. I vigorously pointed out to the local > newspapers and Rutgers this couldn't possibly be a meteorite to no > avail. I was on a live FOX radio show where they literally took me > off the air after having called me to ask what I thought of the "new > meteorite." When I pointed out that it was unlikely this was a > meteorite, they pointed out "And you have a degree in what?" and upon > my answer cut to a commercial and I was toast. > > Months after Rutgers put the object on display in their natural > history museum---for which they attracted their largest crowds ever--- > it was publicly acknowledged the origin of this object was of earthly > provenance. > > > > On May 8, 2009, at 4:27 AM, Meteorites USA wrote: > >> Does anyone remember or know what came of this? >> >> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/01/070105-space-rock.html >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Eric Wichman >> Meteorites USA >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri May 8 11:06:39 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 08:06:39 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? In-Reply-To: <799BA6A2-175C-4D68-AFE8-F5668CF47EFE@dof3.com> References: <4A03ECE5.3000401@meteoritesusa.com> <799BA6A2-175C-4D68-AFE8-F5668CF47EFE@dof3.com> Message-ID: <4A044A7F.7000509@meteoritesusa.com> Sucks that the media thinks you need a degree in something to be qualified to talk intelligently about anything... I wasn't really questioning whether it was a meteorite or not, I was just a little curious how it actually got there and what it was... I'm doing some research and knowing how this fell through a roof would be cool to know. Is that the one from the wood chipper story, or was it space debris, airplane part, shrapnel from an explosion or some other weird thing? Anyone got a link to a follow-up or conclusion? Regards, Eric Darryl Pitt wrote: > > Obviously at the outset a meteorwrong....but somehow required months > to establish after a team of scientists from Rutgers declared it was a > meteorite. > > With no visual or sonic phenomena to accompany the low altitude > explosion, which would have been the only explanation for such a shape > and striated surface character without fusion crust, there was no way > this was a meteorite. I vigorously pointed out to the local > newspapers and Rutgers this couldn't possibly be a meteorite to no > avail. I was on a live FOX radio show where they literally took me > off the air after having called me to ask what I thought of the "new > meteorite." When I pointed out that it was unlikely this was a > meteorite, they pointed out "And you have a degree in what?" and upon > my answer cut to a commercial and I was toast. > > Months after Rutgers put the object on display in their natural > history museum---for which they attracted their largest crowds > ever---it was publicly acknowledged the origin of this object was of > earthly provenance. > > > > On May 8, 2009, at 4:27 AM, Meteorites USA wrote: > >> Does anyone remember or know what came of this? >> >> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/01/070105-space-rock.html >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Eric Wichman >> Meteorites USA >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri May 8 11:13:26 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 10:13:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? In-Reply-To: <4A044A7F.7000509@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A03ECE5.3000401@meteoritesusa.com> <799BA6A2-175C-4D68-AFE8-F5668CF47EFE@dof3.com> <4A044A7F.7000509@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: If Darryl's opinion had agreed with that of the other expert guests and the show's host, it wouldn't have mattered if Darryl was degreed or not. His credentials were only questioned after he disagreed. Amateur scientists and aspiring scientists of all stripes have always faced this bias from "authority". At least Fox didn't give Darryl the "Galileo Treatment". ;) If you don't have a degree then you don't know what you are talking about. That's the common misconception and it's not going away soon. Best regards and clear skies, MikeG On 5/8/09, Meteorites USA wrote: > Sucks that the media thinks you need a degree in something to be > qualified to talk intelligently about anything... > > I wasn't really questioning whether it was a meteorite or not, I was > just a little curious how it actually got there and what it was... I'm > doing some research and knowing how this fell through a roof would be > cool to know. > > Is that the one from the wood chipper story, or was it space debris, > airplane part, shrapnel from an explosion or some other weird thing? > > Anyone got a link to a follow-up or conclusion? > > Regards, > Eric > > > > > Darryl Pitt wrote: >> >> Obviously at the outset a meteorwrong....but somehow required months >> to establish after a team of scientists from Rutgers declared it was a >> meteorite. >> >> With no visual or sonic phenomena to accompany the low altitude >> explosion, which would have been the only explanation for such a shape >> and striated surface character without fusion crust, there was no way >> this was a meteorite. I vigorously pointed out to the local >> newspapers and Rutgers this couldn't possibly be a meteorite to no >> avail. I was on a live FOX radio show where they literally took me >> off the air after having called me to ask what I thought of the "new >> meteorite." When I pointed out that it was unlikely this was a >> meteorite, they pointed out "And you have a degree in what?" and upon >> my answer cut to a commercial and I was toast. >> >> Months after Rutgers put the object on display in their natural >> history museum---for which they attracted their largest crowds >> ever---it was publicly acknowledged the origin of this object was of >> earthly provenance. >> >> >> >> On May 8, 2009, at 4:27 AM, Meteorites USA wrote: >> >>> Does anyone remember or know what came of this? >>> >>> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/01/070105-space-rock.html >>> >>> -- >>> Regards, >>> Eric Wichman >>> Meteorites USA >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri May 8 11:22:36 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 11:22:36 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? Message-ID: Eric, And you have a degree in WHAT to qualify you to do such research? Hummm? :-) Steve Arnold In a message dated 5/8/2009 10:13:00 A.M. Central Daylight Time, eric at meteoritesusa.com writes: Sucks that the media thinks you need a degree in something to be qualified to talk intelligently about anything... I wasn't really questioning whether it was a meteorite or not, I was just a little curious how it actually got there and what it was... I'm doing some research and knowing how this fell through a roof would be cool to know. Is that the one from the wood chipper story, or was it space debris, airplane part, shrapnel from an explosion or some other weird thing? Anyone got a link to a follow-up or conclusion? Regards, Eric **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) From GeoZay at aol.com Fri May 8 11:25:37 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 11:25:37 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? Message-ID: >>Amateur scientists and aspiring scientists of all stripes have always faced this bias from "authority". At least Fox didn't give Darryl the "Galileo Treatment". ;)<< It was unfortunate that Darryl had this happen to him, but on the other side of the coin, where it applies to matters of science, I'd rather have more faith in those with degrees in the fields under discussion. Maybe there would be more folks leaning towards Evolution than Creationism for example...or Less UFO sightings with ET alien overtones. Then again it takes a person or two with science degrees to voice their off the wall authority to wrongly direct folks towards erroneous beliefs. GeoZay **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =May5509AvgfooterNO115) From cynapse at charter.net Fri May 8 12:34:16 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 11:34:16 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? In-Reply-To: References: <4A03ECE5.3000401@meteoritesusa.com> <799BA6A2-175C-4D68-AFE8-F5668CF47EFE@dof3.com> <4A044A7F.7000509@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <9in805930r3ggd464ck5gsvu68qfqej42m@4ax.com> On Fri, 8 May 2009 10:13:26 -0500, you wrote: > >If you don't have a degree then you don't know what you are talking >about. That's the common misconception and it's not going away soon. And if you do have a degree in anything, you are concidered an authority in everything. Most of the creation "scientists" are engineers-- who then go on propagandize their ignorance of biochemestry, geology and astrophysics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_hypothesis BTW, in the "anyone remember this" file, anyone hear anything more about that possible Zimbabwe fall a few months back? From darryl at dof3.com Fri May 8 11:53:51 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 11:53:51 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? In-Reply-To: <4A044A7F.7000509@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A03ECE5.3000401@meteoritesusa.com> <799BA6A2-175C-4D68-AFE8-F5668CF47EFE@dof3.com> <4A044A7F.7000509@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <7CCB9F5D-2D73-4A35-9A9F-8AEF83DF7BBD@dof3.com> Yes, there was a steel mill nearby and a wood-chipper component to this story. Mike Fowler of this list who is expert in such matters brought this notion to light. I might also mention that Eric Twelker had expressed his doubts to the same New York Times reporter with whom I had spoken, and he reached out to the lead scientist and warned the object wasn't a meteorite, to which the scientist at Rutgers tersely responded, "Get your facts straight." Indeed. As Mike had pointed out, the guys operating the hypothetical chipper wouldn't be inclined to come forward. Rutgers also had no interest in determining the true origin of the object or just how earthly it was. . On May 8, 2009, at 11:06 AM, Meteorites USA wrote: > Sucks that the media thinks you need a degree in something to be > qualified to talk intelligently about anything... > > I wasn't really questioning whether it was a meteorite or not, I was > just a little curious how it actually got there and what it was... > I'm doing some research and knowing how this fell through a roof > would be cool to know. > > Is that the one from the wood chipper story, or was it space debris, > airplane part, shrapnel from an explosion or some other weird thing? > > Anyone got a link to a follow-up or conclusion? > > Regards, > Eric > > > > > Darryl Pitt wrote: >> >> Obviously at the outset a meteorwrong....but somehow required >> months to establish after a team of scientists from Rutgers >> declared it was a meteorite. >> >> With no visual or sonic phenomena to accompany the low altitude >> explosion, which would have been the only explanation for such a >> shape and striated surface character without fusion crust, there >> was no way this was a meteorite. I vigorously pointed out to the >> local newspapers and Rutgers this couldn't possibly be a meteorite >> to no avail. I was on a live FOX radio show where they literally >> took me off the air after having called me to ask what I thought of >> the "new meteorite." When I pointed out that it was unlikely this >> was a meteorite, they pointed out "And you have a degree in what?" >> and upon my answer cut to a commercial and I was toast. >> >> Months after Rutgers put the object on display in their natural >> history museum---for which they attracted their largest crowds >> ever---it was publicly acknowledged the origin of this object was >> of earthly provenance. >> >> >> >> On May 8, 2009, at 4:27 AM, Meteorites USA wrote: >> >>> Does anyone remember or know what came of this? >>> >>> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/01/070105-space-rock.html >>> >>> -- >>> Regards, >>> Eric Wichman >>> Meteorites USA >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > From MoritzKarl at t-online.de Fri May 8 12:00:36 2009 From: MoritzKarl at t-online.de (Moritz Karl) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 18:00:36 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: ebay auctions ending in 2 days and website update Message-ID: <1M2SUy-13fwDg0@fwd07.t-online.de> Dear List-Members, I have 36 ebay auctions ending on Sunday. They start ending at 11:52 PDT. The auctions are still at ridiculous levels. All auctions were started at $1.49 and have no reserve. Some auction highlights: - Cape York - 23.3 gr etched partslice - Dar al Gani 400 - 0.11 and 0.44 gram partslices - Estherville - 15.39 gr. partslice - Fukang - 11.54 gr. polished partslice - Gibeon - 28.4 gr. etched sphere - Indarch - 1.75 gr. partslice - Jenny's Creek - 0.69 gr. fragment - TKW only 0.9 kg !!! - Krasnojarsk - 1.0 gr. partslice - NWA 791 Chondrite sphere - 114.6 gr. - NWA 4024 - 4.28 gr. etche endpiece - Winonaite !!! - New silicated iron from Algeria - 17.7 gr. partslice - Weston - 0.11 gr. fragment - Wiluna - 9.55 gr. individual - Zaragoza - 27.7 gr. partslice And many more auctions to see. They are all well below market value or even still at their starting bids with one or none bids at all. There may be some great steals along the road! See them all at: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/meteoriten or through my website: http://www.m3t3orites.com/ebay.php Furthermore I have finally been able to do a little website update: I have added the following: - Slices of the new silicated iron from Algeria which was found in 2008 and is probably paired to NWA 5549. The slices weigh 70.0 gr., 66.0 gr. and 83.8 gr. I do have more material on request. http://www.m3t3orites.com/meteorites/nwa5549.php - 6 slices of the rare IIIF iron St. Genevieve County. The slices weigh 11.9 gr., 13.8 gr., 7.85 gr., 16.2 gr., 50.1 gr. and 54.4 gr. http://www.m3t3orites.com/meteorites/genevieve.php - 1 new slice of Estherville weighing 39.6 grams http://www.m3t3orites.com/meteorites/estherville.php - 4 slices of Pena Blanca Spring weighing 7.66 gr., 5.53 gr., 4.53 gr. and 4.79 gr. http://www.m3t3orites.com/meteorites/pena.php - 3 slices of Isna - CO3.7 from Egypt - weighing 1.61 gr., 2.15 gr. and 2.28 gr. http://www.m3t3orites.com/meteorites/isna.php - 1 slice of Dhofar 008 - unequilibrated chondrite - weighing 1.93 grams. http://www.m3t3orites.com/meteorites/dhofar008.php - 6 new slices of Dar al Gani 400 (ALUN-A) have been added: http://www.m3t3orites.com/meteorites/dg400.php I think this is enough for now. Thank you all for looking and Good Luck in case you are bidding. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Kind Regards Moritz Karl Germany Visit mo's meteorites at http://www.m3t3orites.com From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri May 8 12:08:00 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 09:08:00 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A0458E0.3080506@meteoritesusa.com> Yeah, sort of... There's a huge difference between book knowledge and common sense. Being able to find the solution/answer is a measure of human growth. Problem solving is at the core of intelligence. Not a piece of paper that says you know something. Anyone with a good memory and the drive to earn a degree can get one. I know some pretty damn smart people, some that have no degree at all who couldn't care less about a degree, or have run multi-million dollar businesses, or challenged professors on subjects such as theoretical physics and cosmology. Following the experts without questioning what's written or "accepted"? They have a name for that... Serfs up dude! ;) Eric P.S. Not disagreeing just expressing my distaste with those who use their authority for personal gain, or who can't see past their own intellectual inferiority. I agree with your statement "...it takes a person or two with science degrees to voice their off the wall authority to wrongly direct folks towards erroneous beliefs..." This is mob mentality... People believe experts and will follow anyone who seems to know what they are talking about. It's not really about right or wrong. GeoZay at aol.com wrote: >>> Amateur scientists and aspiring scientists of all stripes have always >>> > faced this bias from "authority". At least Fox didn't give Darryl the > "Galileo Treatment". ;)<< > > It was unfortunate that Darryl had this happen to him, but on the other > side of the coin, where it applies to matters of science, I'd rather have > more faith in those with degrees in the fields under discussion. Maybe there > would be more folks leaning towards Evolution than Creationism for > example...or Less UFO sightings with ET alien overtones. Then again it takes a > person or two with science degrees to voice their off the wall authority to > wrongly direct folks towards erroneous beliefs. > GeoZay > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd > =May5509AvgfooterNO115) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri May 8 12:14:33 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 12:14:33 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? Message-ID: It really is a tough situation. Sounds like the producer didn't do their job ahead of time. But in their shoes, what should they do they do? They brought the scientist in to talk about the science, and probably brought Darryl in to talk about how much it might be worth on the collector market. As Darryl is promoted to be an expert in aesthetic irons, this thing the local expert told them was an iron meteorite, and with Darryl being from the big city, I bet they thought it would round off their show nicely...that is until he threw the monkey wrench into their (not so) well laid plans. We would all agree the BEST solution would be that ALL people with nice degrees would have their facts straight and know what they are talking about when asked. I am sure, especially on the radio, they have to deal with dozens of crack pots every day, from people playing pranks by impersonating other people, to people that don't know what they are talking about, to people that really are crazy. In a second or two they have to decide, do we embarrass our local hometown expert that is putting his reputation on the line by giving the non-degreed out of town commercial meteorite dealer more air time, or separate the two? Then, if cutting off one of the two, the decision needs to be made which one gets hung up on? A good producer will know every answer you will give to every question that will be posed ahead of time, because that producer will have asked the guests those questions ahead of time off the air. Much easier on TV than on the radio, but still, that is how it is supposed to be done. In any case, Darryl's answer didn't fit with what they thought it should be and I am sure they went into panic mode. If they had asked Darryl about this before the show went live, they would have known his stance, and could have avoided the question with the answer they didn't like, or they could have uninvited Darryl before the interview started to avoid the conflict. Obviously, TV shows have bigger budgets to pay people to do a better job of such screening, and mess ups on TV are a bit more embarrassing than on the radio, so "flushing" a interviewee, especially if it is a call in, is far easier than investing too much into the pre-show planning. Besides, lots of these radio talk shows are doing what they do for humor, and they just roll from one topic to the next trying to keep the drivers awake on the conveyor belt commute into work in the morning. It would be safe to say probably the only two people that even remember anything about the interview would be Darryl and the other "expert and degreed" guest, and I am sure the later would like to forget about it, as I am sure he is quite embarrassed about getting the diagnosis wrong. The person doing the interview probably doesn't even remember it. And sadly, probably no one listening on the radio driving to work that morning even remembers it. Radios are in business to sell ads and make money. They need to keep listeners to stay tuned between commercials. For them, it is all filler. Who cares if it is factually correct or not. Steve Arnold In a message dated 5/8/2009 10:27:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time, GeoZay at aol.com writes: >>Amateur scientists and aspiring scientists of all stripes have always faced this bias from "authority". At least Fox didn't give Darryl the "Galileo Treatment". ;)<< It was unfortunate that Darryl had this happen to him, but on the other side of the coin, where it applies to matters of science, I'd rather have more faith in those with degrees in the fields under discussion. Maybe there would be more folks leaning towards Evolution than Creationism for example...or Less UFO sightings with ET alien overtones. Then again it takes a person or two with science degrees to voice their off the wall authority to wrongly direct folks towards erroneous beliefs. GeoZay **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =May5509AvgfooterNO115) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri May 8 11:42:41 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 08:42:41 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A0452F1.9070604@meteoritesusa.com> Point...:) I actually have a Masters Degree from UP (University of Persistence) stemming from an incessant need to know more! Studying hard, and learning more everyday man. Bad media! I just think it's a travesty... A travesty I tell you. Maybe they were just mad because they were embarrassed by suggesting it was a meteorite and then to have someone question that LIVE and on the air made them look stupid. I didn't hear the show but can imagine it that if that were the case. Still though my question is what was that big hunk of metal and the story behind it? Eric MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > Eric, > > And you have a degree in WHAT to qualify you to do such research? Hummm? > > :-) > > Steve Arnold > > > In a message dated 5/8/2009 10:13:00 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > eric at meteoritesusa.com writes: > Sucks that the media thinks you need a degree in something to be > qualified to talk intelligently about anything... > > I wasn't really questioning whether it was a meteorite or not, I was > just a little curious how it actually got there and what it was... I'm > doing some research and knowing how this fell through a roof would be > cool to know. > > Is that the one from the wood chipper story, or was it space debris, > airplane part, shrapnel from an explosion or some other weird thing? > > Anyone got a link to a follow-up or conclusion? > > Regards, > Eric > > **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. > (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri May 8 12:25:09 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 11:25:09 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good points Steve. A little experience in the media production arena sheds new light of reason on the debate. :) I just don't understand how any "expert" could be fooled by that object in the first place. It does have a passing resemblance to the so-called "shattered crystals" of Campo sold on the market, but such pieces don't fall from the sky that way - they are created by man using a process. If that object had been posted on eBay for sale, it would have raised red flags to every person who looks at it - degreed or not. If I was that show's "expert" who proclaimed it to be meteoritic, I'd want to forget the entire episode too. ;) Good luck with the debut Sunday. :) MikeG On 5/8/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > It really is a tough situation. Sounds like the producer didn't do their > job ahead of time. > > But in their shoes, what should they do they do? They brought the > scientist in to talk about the science, and probably brought Darryl in to > talk > about how much it might be worth on the collector market. As Darryl is > promoted to be an expert in aesthetic irons, this thing the local expert > told > them was an iron meteorite, and with Darryl being from the big city, I bet > they thought it would round off their show nicely...that is until he threw > the > monkey wrench into their (not so) well laid plans. > > We would all agree the BEST solution would be that ALL people with nice > degrees would have their facts straight and know what they are talking > about > when asked. > > I am sure, especially on the radio, they have to deal with dozens of crack > pots every day, from people playing pranks by impersonating other people, > to people that don't know what they are talking about, to people that > really are crazy. > > In a second or two they have to decide, do we embarrass our local hometown > expert that is putting his reputation on the line by giving the > non-degreed out of town commercial meteorite dealer more air time, or > separate the > two? Then, if cutting off one of the two, the decision needs to be made > which one gets hung up on? > > A good producer will know every answer you will give to every question > that will be posed ahead of time, because that producer will have asked the > guests those questions ahead of time off the air. Much easier on TV than > on > the radio, but still, that is how it is supposed to be done. In any case, > Darryl's answer didn't fit with what they thought it should be and I am > sure they went into panic mode. > > If they had asked Darryl about this before the show went live, they would > have known his stance, and could have avoided the question with the answer > they didn't like, or they could have uninvited Darryl before the interview > started to avoid the conflict. > > Obviously, TV shows have bigger budgets to pay people to do a better job > of such screening, and mess ups on TV are a bit more embarrassing than on > the > radio, so "flushing" a interviewee, especially if it is a call in, is far > easier than investing too much into the pre-show planning. > > Besides, lots of these radio talk shows are doing what they do for humor, > and they just roll from one topic to the next trying to keep the drivers > awake on the conveyor belt commute into work in the morning. > > It would be safe to say probably the only two people that even remember > anything about the interview would be Darryl and the other "expert and > degreed" guest, and I am sure the later would like to forget about it, as I > am > sure he is quite embarrassed about getting the diagnosis wrong. The person > doing the interview probably doesn't even remember it. And sadly, probably > no one listening on the radio driving to work that morning even remembers > it. > > Radios are in business to sell ads and make money. They need to keep > listeners to stay tuned between commercials. For them, it is all filler. > Who > cares if it is factually correct or not. > > Steve Arnold > > > > > > > In a message dated 5/8/2009 10:27:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > GeoZay at aol.com writes: >>>Amateur scientists and aspiring scientists of all stripes have always > faced this bias from "authority". At least Fox didn't give Darryl the > "Galileo Treatment". ;)<< > > It was unfortunate that Darryl had this happen to him, but on the other > side of the coin, where it applies to matters of science, I'd rather have > more faith in those with degrees in the fields under discussion. Maybe > there > would be more folks leaning towards Evolution than Creationism for > example...or Less UFO sightings with ET alien overtones. Then again it > takes a > person or two with science degrees to voice their off the wall authority > to > wrongly direct folks towards erroneous beliefs. > GeoZay > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322931x1201367171/aol?redir=htt > p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd > =May5509AvgfooterNO115) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo > > **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. > (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From epgrondine at yahoo.com Fri May 8 12:27:44 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 09:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Chevrons and impact mega-tsunami Message-ID: <40757.86697.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Paul, Sterling - Denial is not just a river in Egypt. You might want to read Ted Bryant's book, or take a look at his online writings. When the chevrons are associated with car and house sized boulders moved out of location, then you're most likely dealing with impact mega-tsunami. Those boulders were what set Ted on the path. Besides the recent evidence for impact mega-tsunami that washed away New York around 300 BC, in North America note: http://www.csasi.org/states/nsc/baucom/baucom15.htm Note the grey sand stratum proceeding Tuscarora emigration into the area, what the excavators phase a "Kay-Stemmed like" Tennessee-Alabama point "hardly worth considering". This deposit is too thick to be wind deposit. NASA has been of absolutely no help to those researching recent impacts, but rather has funded the "sceptics". This is as true for impact mega-tsunami as it has been for the Holocene Start Impacts. At Cactus Hll, the sterile level overlying the pre-Clovis strata was analyzed as wind deposited, and has not been looked at since. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net Fri May 8 12:34:44 2009 From: larrytwinkmonrad at comcast.net (Larry & Twink Monrad) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 09:34:44 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] golf and meteorite connection References: Message-ID: <0250661FDD0C484FBB4221234E0DE9A5@DFZN8X81> The June 2009 issue of Golf Digest has an article on Phil Mickelson, professional golfer, and this morning at my golf course a friend excitedly asked me if I had seen it. I replied not yet, but will be sure to read it. Guess I am making inroads with my constant talk of meteorite hunting to the bewilderment of my golf friends. Here is what is available on the Golf Digest website. Q&A: PHIL MICKELSON The man with three majors, a dinosaur head and a 300-pound meteorite is no dodo Interviewed by Bob Verdi Twink Monrad From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri May 8 12:38:38 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 09:38:38 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Misquote... Message-ID: <4A04600E.3050600@meteoritesusa.com> It seems I've been misquoted in a small paper in OK. I'm working to fix it now... Please don't send me emails yelling at me... ;) -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri May 8 13:01:35 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:01:35 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? Message-ID: In a message dated 5/8/2009 11:25:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, meteoritemike at gmail.com writes: I just don't understand how any "expert" could be fooled by that object in the first place. MikeG, It happens ALL the time. And reporter "experts" are sometimes the worst. I don't know how reporters can mess up simple facts. If it was political, it stands to reason why a reporter would error ALL the time in favor of their candidate or topic, but something as benign as meteorites, and they still mess things up. We should have a media "Hall of Shame" website devoted to chronicling all the meteorite mistakes as they happen! Here is the scenario: Geologist at the nearest Junior College gets a call from a reporter with the "facts": "Man has hole in his roof, with a metal rock on the floor under the hole. Fairly certain it is a meteorite, what do you think?" Expert, walking between classes he is teaching: "Does a magnet stick to this so called 'meteorite'?" Reporter: "Yes, strongly." Expert, choking on his coffee: "Sounds like it is the real deal, can I see it?" With TV cameras rolling, 2 hours later the expert arrives at the scene, with fresh images of meteorites in his head that he found on Google just before he headed out of the office, he is handed the object and he says... We all know what he says. Just read the quotes. That is how it happens. The universe is now rotating around him instead of the sun for a few days and his head is spinning on his great fortune. He starts swerving over into other areas of expertise like Financial Advising, telling the finder not to be suckered into selling his meteorite too cheap to the first greedy dealer that comes along to rip him off. Or he goes the other way and tells the finder, that if he donates the rock to his institution, that all the positive PR this will generate for his school will help him get on that tenured track he is coveting. Oh wait, he THINKS that, he actually tells the finder that only science will find the mysteries of the universe locked in his rock if he gives it to the school, and that if a dealer gets it instead, it will only be cut into pieces. He starts thinking about the grant money he can get when he writes the paper on it. Maybe he will get to speak at the Rotary Luncheon? Even now his students that laugh at him will HAVE to respect him. I could go on, about how "science" will have to look at the donated object through glass, as the committee at the school responsible for it won't allow it to ever be cut...but I won't. Shove a TV camera in front of about anyone, and it amazing what comes out of their mouth sometimes. Steve Arnold **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Fri May 8 13:27:44 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 12:27:44 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? References: Message-ID: > Shove a TV camera in front of about anyone, > and it's amazing what comes out of their mouth... The first words out of that mouth should be: "Hi! Do you have a signed release from me?" Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: ; Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 12:01 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? > In a message dated 5/8/2009 11:25:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > meteoritemike at gmail.com writes: > I just don't understand how any "expert" could be fooled by that > object in the first place. > > MikeG, > > It happens ALL the time. And reporter "experts" are sometimes the > worst. > I don't know how reporters can mess up simple facts. If it was > political, > it stands to reason why a reporter would error ALL the time in favor > of > their candidate or topic, but something as benign as meteorites, and > they > still mess things up. > > We should have a media "Hall of Shame" website devoted to chronicling > all > the meteorite mistakes as they happen! > > Here is the scenario: > > Geologist at the nearest Junior College gets a call from a reporter > with > the "facts": "Man has hole in his roof, with a metal rock on the > floor > under the hole. Fairly certain it is a meteorite, what do you > think?" Expert, > walking between classes he is teaching: "Does a magnet stick to this > so > called 'meteorite'?" Reporter: "Yes, strongly." > > Expert, choking on his coffee: "Sounds like it is the real deal, can > I see > it?" > > With TV cameras rolling, 2 hours later the expert arrives at the > scene, > with fresh images of meteorites in his head that he found on Google > just > before he headed out of the office, he is handed the object and he > says... > > We all know what he says. Just read the quotes. > > That is how it happens. > > The universe is now rotating around him instead of the sun for a few > days > and his head is spinning on his great fortune. He starts swerving > over > into other areas of expertise like Financial Advising, telling the > finder not > to be suckered into selling his meteorite too cheap to the first > greedy > dealer that comes along to rip him off. > > Or he goes the other way and tells the finder, that if he donates the > rock > to his institution, that all the positive PR this will generate for > his > school will help him get on that tenured track he is coveting. Oh > wait, he > THINKS that, he actually tells the finder that only science will find > the > mysteries of the universe locked in his rock if he gives it to the > school, > and that if a dealer gets it instead, it will only be cut into > pieces. > > He starts thinking about the grant money he can get when he writes the > paper on it. Maybe he will get to speak at the Rotary Luncheon? Even > now his > students that laugh at him will HAVE to respect him. > > I could go on, about how "science" will have to look at the donated > object > through glass, as the committee at the school responsible for it > won't > allow it to ever be cut...but I won't. > > Shove a TV camera in front of about anyone, and it amazing what comes > out > of their mouth sometimes. > > Steve Arnold > > > > **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you > now. > (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritekid at gmail.com Fri May 8 13:31:02 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 10:31:02 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93aaac890905081031k1e28db99i8d86efa5114a3d8c@mail.gmail.com> Right, but one has to understand that experts are trained to deal with thin sections and polarizing microscopes. What we do as hunters, dealers, and collectors is a much more laid-back, truly unscientific way of dealing with space rocks. Of course, that's not to say that we're not right most of the time, but it's a different kind of right. The initial video that came out weren't good enough to say either way (both Darren and myself, as well as other prominent list members noted the possibility of it being a meteorite at the time), but better pictures were posted a short while later which promptly changed my mind, as well as those of other list members. http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com/msg52768.html When I saw those pictures, I repeatedly posted that it wasn't a space rock: http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com/msg51575.html Furthermore, I'm not surprised that more intensive studies weren't conducted on the piece of metal; once it was determined to be terrestrial, it hardly seems relevant as to where it came from - or would you like to cover the bill for a neutron activation? I agree that it would be interesting to see where it came from, but you're probably looking at another metallic part from a wood-chipper, or something along those lines. Why spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to find out where it came from? I guess if you have the money to blow on it, by all means, go for it, but I'm of the understanding that most universities would consider the money better spent elsewhere. And I may not have a degree yet, but I'm currently working towards astrophysics over here. Regards, Jason On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 10:01 AM, wrote: > In a message dated 5/8/2009 11:25:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > meteoritemike at gmail.com writes: > I just don't understand how any "expert" ?could be fooled by that > object in the first place. > > MikeG, > > It happens ALL the time. And reporter "experts" are sometimes ?the worst. > I don't know how reporters can mess up simple facts. ?If ?it was political, > it stands to reason why a reporter would error ALL the time in ?favor of > their candidate or topic, but something as benign as meteorites, and ?they > still mess things up. > > We should have a media "Hall of Shame" website ?devoted to chronicling all > the meteorite mistakes as they happen! > > Here is ?the scenario: > > Geologist at the nearest Junior College gets a call from a ?reporter with > the "facts": ?"Man has hole in his roof, with a metal rock on ?the floor > under the hole. ?Fairly certain it is a meteorite, what do you ?think?" ?Expert, > walking between classes he is teaching: "Does a magnet ?stick to this so > called 'meteorite'?" ?Reporter: "Yes, ?strongly." > > Expert, choking on his coffee: "Sounds like it is the real ?deal, can I see > it?" > > With TV cameras rolling, 2 hours later the expert ?arrives at the scene, > with fresh images of meteorites in his head that he found ?on Google just > before he headed out of the office, he is handed the object and ?he says... > > We all know what he says. ?Just read the quotes. > > That is how it ?happens. > > The universe is now rotating around him instead of the ?sun for a few days > and his head is spinning on his great fortune. ?He ?starts swerving over > into other areas of expertise like Financial Advising, ?telling the finder not > to be suckered into selling his meteorite too cheap to ?the first greedy > dealer that comes along to rip him off. > > Or he ?goes the other way and tells the finder, that if he donates the rock > to his ?institution, that all the positive PR this will generate for his > school will ?help him get on that tenured track he is coveting. ?Oh wait, he > THINKS ?that, he actually tells the finder that only science will find the > mysteries of ?the universe locked in his rock if he gives it to the school, > and that if a ?dealer gets it instead, it will only be cut into pieces. > > He starts thinking about the grant money he can get when he writes the > paper on it. ?Maybe he will get to speak at the Rotary Luncheon? ?Even ?now his > students that laugh at him will HAVE to respect him. > > I could go ?on, about how "science" will have to look at the donated object > through glass, ?as the committee at the school responsible for it won't > allow it to ever be ?cut...but I won't. > > Shove a TV camera in front of about anyone, and it ?amazing what comes out > of their mouth sometimes. > > Steve ?Arnold > > > > **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. > (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From MeteorHntr at aol.com Fri May 8 13:31:05 2009 From: MeteorHntr at aol.com (MeteorHntr at aol.com) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 13:31:05 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? Message-ID: All, In my last post, I failed to tie the first point together with the second. Sometimes experts actually do get it right, but the members media of the media are the ones that twist it and make it wrong with misquotes. There is a story today in the Wichita paper (at least online) with a mistake in it, saying Geoff helped me dig up the big 1,430 pound Brenham 3 1/2 years ago. While Geoff did show up a couple of days later, and was instrumental in helping us get the word out to the media about the Main Mass find, he wasn't there when it was dug up, Phil Mani was. Who knows how that mistake happened? Neither Geoff or I said that to the reporter. She didn't pull that from an earlier story she wrote. Go figure? But now that it is in print, others will probably run with the "fact" in future stories. The poor Fire Chief at Monahans still has the stigma of taking the meteorite away from the boys that found it because an AP reporter stated it as fact. We all know it was the Police Chief of Monahans that confiscated the rock without the due process of law. "Little mistake" some will say. "Not a big deal" others would say. "Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story" still others would argue. It might be a big deal to the Fire Chief, or to Phil Mani, or to any of the other BILLIONS of people who would like to be able to believe that facts stated in the media are true as stated. If editors would edit, or if reporters would run a story buy the quoted person to fact check before it goes to print, mistakes could be avoided. But, deadlines have to be met. The next story has to be started. Ads have to be sold. It is life in the news media world. One day soon we won't have newspapers anymore. It will all be online. And mistakes will be able to be corrected in short order. Until then, we suffer, and do the best we can with what we've got. Steve Arnold In a message dated 5/8/2009 12:02:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, MeteorHntr at aol.com writes: In a message dated 5/8/2009 11:25:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, meteoritemike at gmail.com writes: I just don't understand how any "expert" could be fooled by that object in the first place. MikeG, It happens ALL the time. And reporter "experts" are sometimes the worst. I don't know how reporters can mess up simple facts. If it was political, it stands to reason why a reporter would error ALL the time in favor of their candidate or topic, but something as benign as meteorites, and they still mess things up. We should have a media "Hall of Shame" website devoted to chronicling all the meteorite mistakes as they happen! Here is the scenario: Geologist at the nearest Junior College gets a call from a reporter with the "facts": "Man has hole in his roof, with a metal rock on the floor under the hole. Fairly certain it is a meteorite, what do you think?" Expert, walking between classes he is teaching: "Does a magnet stick to this so called 'meteorite'?" Reporter: "Yes, strongly." Expert, choking on his coffee: "Sounds like it is the real deal, can I see it?" With TV cameras rolling, 2 hours later the expert arrives at the scene, with fresh images of meteorites in his head that he found on Google just before he headed out of the office, he is handed the object and he says... We all know what he says. Just read the quotes. That is how it happens. The universe is now rotating around him instead of the sun for a few days and his head is spinning on his great fortune. He starts swerving over into other areas of expertise like Financial Advising, telling the finder not to be suckered into selling his meteorite too cheap to the first greedy dealer that comes along to rip him off. Or he goes the other way and tells the finder, that if he donates the rock to his institution, that all the positive PR this will generate for his school will help him get on that tenured track he is coveting. Oh wait, he THINKS that, he actually tells the finder that only science will find the mysteries of the universe locked in his rock if he gives it to the school, and that if a dealer gets it instead, it will only be cut into pieces. He starts thinking about the grant money he can get when he writes the paper on it. Maybe he will get to speak at the Rotary Luncheon? Even now his students that laugh at him will HAVE to respect him. I could go on, about how "science" will have to look at the donated object through glass, as the committee at the school responsible for it won't allow it to ever be cut...but I won't. Shove a TV camera in front of about anyone, and it amazing what comes out of their mouth sometimes. Steve Arnold **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) From saharagems at yahoo.com Fri May 8 13:38:11 2009 From: saharagems at yahoo.com (Stalder Thomas) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 10:38:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: NWA Individual not classified, Libyan Desert Glass and Scale Cube Message-ID: <99123.55173.qm@web44915.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hi List members, I have some auctions on Ebay running, ending in about 24 hrs. - One NWA Meteorite, unclassified possible Chondrite L, Very nice INDIVIDUAL 266 g, moderate weathering with about 90 % crust. Offers welcome - Some nice GEM quality Libyan Desert Glass Tektites - The last at the moment: One cm Aluminum SCALE CUBE with SIZE and ORIENTATION - NSEWTB Thank you and have a great weekend. Thomas http://stores.ebay.com/SAHARAGEMS-DESERT-STONES-AND-MORE From geoking at notkin.net Fri May 8 13:39:00 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 10:39:00 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > We should have a media "Hall of Shame" website devoted to > chronicling all > the meteorite mistakes as they happen! Okay, that is a great idea. It would make an excellent double bill with Ken Newton's hugely enjoyable meteor-wrongs and meteorite ID website: http://meteorite-identification.com Regards, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org The METEORITE MEN will be landing soon World TV premiere MAY 10, 2009 6 pm Pacific / 9 pm Eastern Only on the Science Channel www.meteoritemen.com From cdtucson at cox.net Fri May 8 15:09:18 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 12:09:18 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090508150918.7Y1B5.204216.imail@fed1rmwml36> Space junk. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,272212,00.html Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 ---- MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: > All, > > In my last post, I failed to tie the first point together with the second. > > > Sometimes experts actually do get it right, but the members media of the > media are the ones that twist it and make it wrong with misquotes. > > There is a story today in the Wichita paper (at least online) with a > mistake in it, saying Geoff helped me dig up the big 1,430 pound Brenham 3 1/2 > years ago. While Geoff did show up a couple of days later, and was > instrumental in helping us get the word out to the media about the Main Mass find, > he wasn't there when it was dug up, Phil Mani was. > > Who knows how that mistake happened? Neither Geoff or I said that to the > reporter. She didn't pull that from an earlier story she wrote. Go figure? > > But now that it is in print, others will probably run with the "fact" in > future stories. > > The poor Fire Chief at Monahans still has the stigma of taking the > meteorite away from the boys that found it because an AP reporter stated it as > fact. We all know it was the Police Chief of Monahans that confiscated the > rock without the due process of law. > > "Little mistake" some will say. "Not a big deal" others would say. > "Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story" still others would argue. > > It might be a big deal to the Fire Chief, or to Phil Mani, or to any of > the other BILLIONS of people who would like to be able to believe that facts > stated in the media are true as stated. > > If editors would edit, or if reporters would run a story buy the quoted > person to fact check before it goes to print, mistakes could be avoided. > > But, deadlines have to be met. The next story has to be started. Ads > have to be sold. > > It is life in the news media world. > > One day soon we won't have newspapers anymore. It will all be online. > And mistakes will be able to be corrected in short order. > > Until then, we suffer, and do the best we can with what we've got. > > Steve Arnold > > > > > In a message dated 5/8/2009 12:02:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > MeteorHntr at aol.com writes: > In a message dated 5/8/2009 11:25:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > meteoritemike at gmail.com writes: > I just don't understand how any "expert" could be fooled by that > object in the first place. > > MikeG, > > It happens ALL the time. And reporter "experts" are sometimes the worst. > I don't know how reporters can mess up simple facts. If it was > political, > it stands to reason why a reporter would error ALL the time in favor of > their candidate or topic, but something as benign as meteorites, and they > still mess things up. > > We should have a media "Hall of Shame" website devoted to chronicling all > the meteorite mistakes as they happen! > > Here is the scenario: > > Geologist at the nearest Junior College gets a call from a reporter with > the "facts": "Man has hole in his roof, with a metal rock on the floor > under the hole. Fairly certain it is a meteorite, what do you think?" > Expert, > walking between classes he is teaching: "Does a magnet stick to this so > called 'meteorite'?" Reporter: "Yes, strongly." > > Expert, choking on his coffee: "Sounds like it is the real deal, can I > see > it?" > > With TV cameras rolling, 2 hours later the expert arrives at the scene, > with fresh images of meteorites in his head that he found on Google just > before he headed out of the office, he is handed the object and he says... > > We all know what he says. Just read the quotes. > > That is how it happens. > > The universe is now rotating around him instead of the sun for a few days > and his head is spinning on his great fortune. He starts swerving over > into other areas of expertise like Financial Advising, telling the finder > not > to be suckered into selling his meteorite too cheap to the first greedy > dealer that comes along to rip him off. > > Or he goes the other way and tells the finder, that if he donates the > rock > to his institution, that all the positive PR this will generate for his > school will help him get on that tenured track he is coveting. Oh wait, > he > THINKS that, he actually tells the finder that only science will find the > mysteries of the universe locked in his rock if he gives it to the > school, > and that if a dealer gets it instead, it will only be cut into pieces. > > He starts thinking about the grant money he can get when he writes the > paper on it. Maybe he will get to speak at the Rotary Luncheon? Even > now his > students that laugh at him will HAVE to respect him. > > I could go on, about how "science" will have to look at the donated > object > through glass, as the committee at the school responsible for it won't > allow it to ever be cut...but I won't. > > Shove a TV camera in front of about anyone, and it amazing what comes out > of their mouth sometimes. > > Steve Arnold > > > > **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. > > (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. > (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri May 8 16:42:45 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 08 May 2009 20:42:45 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Coulee Coordinates and pieces for sale Message-ID: Hello Mike T. and List, The Met.Bull. gives these coordinates: 52? 59.76 ' N, 109? 50.89' W The 11.5-gram specimen you are offering for sale nicely fits the above coordinates but the 6.8-gram and 23.5-gram individuals have a northern latitude of about 50? N. Does this imply the strewn field is a very elongated N-S fall ellipse and, furthermore, does this hint toward a relatively shallow entry angle of the meteoroid? What do you and other list members think? Any pertinent input appreciated! Thank you, Bernd From darryl at dof3.com Fri May 8 17:14:27 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 17:14:27 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: NJO revisited References: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1701149571@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com> Message-ID: <9C9E40CB-5849-4A1E-98A5-A53F9A0343A4@dof3.com> Robert Matson thought I might wish to post the following to the list. It's interesting. Wishing everyone a terrific weekend. All best / Darryl > From: "Matson, Robert D." > Date: May 8, 2009 3:29:58 PM EDT > To: "Darryl Pitt" , "Meteorites USA" > > Cc: > Subject: NJO revisited > > > > Hi Darryl (please feel free to forward to the list as I cannot from > work): > >> I might also mention that Eric Twelker had expressed his doubts to >> the > same >> New York Times reporter with whom I had spoken, and he reached out to > the >> lead scientist and warned the object wasn't a meteorite, to which the >> scientist at Rutgers tersely responded, "Get your facts straight." > > Dr. Delaney's defensive "get your facts straight" comment was actually > directed at me. (Eric Twelker had forwarded my MetList post to him.) > Here's > the original source of that quote: > > ------ Forwarded Message > From: "Jeremy S. Delaney" > Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 16:17:17 -0500 > To: Eric Twelker > Subject: Re: New Jersey Meteorite/NYT article > > I suggest that your colleague get his facts right Yours sincerely > Jeremy > S. Delaney > > Eric Twelker wrote: > >> Hello Jeremy >> >> I am the meteorite dealer that Kareem Fahim was talking to >> yesterday between conversations with you. I think he explained my >> concern on the origin of this piece--but I wanted to forward the >> email >> below from Rob Matson to our Meteorite Mailing list. Rob is a >> respected scientist who is engaged in tracking and recovery of space >> objects. He expressed concern to me that the gamma ray spectrum >> should > >> be measured right away and that passage of time was critical. You >> can >> contact Rob here: "Matson, Robert" >> >> Eric Twelker >> >> Hi All, >> >> I was surprised that our local NBC affiliate in Los Angeles closed >> the >> news last night (just before Jay Leno) with a 30-second blurb on the >> mystery metal object from New Jersey. So I was finally able to see >> high-definition video of the object being rotated, allowing a better >> feel for the surface texture. It is a bit peanut-shaped, and >> certainly >> larger than a golf ball which means its specific gravity is >> correspondingly lower -- less than 7 I should think. The surface >> looked > >> melted in some spots (like viscous drips), but in other areas I >> thought > >> I could see glints from small, metallic crystal faces -- although not >> unlike the octahedrite crystals one sees in the higher quality Nantan >> pieces. >> >> If this had been a find rather than a fall, I'd be very encouraged by >> its density and appearance. But as a fresh fall, it looks, well, >> ~wrong~. Where is the crust of magnetite? How could it look the way >> it >> does if it just screamed through our upper atmosphere at 8+ miles per >> second? >> >> So my vote is that if it turns out to be a meteorite, foul play is >> involved. Determining whether it is a meteorite or not should take >> about 20 seconds by any regular member of this list examining the >> specimen firsthand. If it ~is~ a meteorite, the next step would be to >> check its gamma ray spectrum for evidence of short-lived, >> cosmic-ray-induced radioactive isotopes in order to prove it was >> recently in space. >> >> On a final note, by nature I'm suspicious of coincidences; given the >> recent reentry of the Soyuz third stage booster over Wyoming/ >> Colorado >> the morning of January 4th, I thought it would be a good idea to >> check >> that rocket body's ground track for the evening of January 2nd over >> New > >> Jersey! For example, there may have been pyro bolts or other >> deployment > >> hardware related to the launch that would have had different drag >> coefficients, causing them to reenter earlier or later than the >> rocket >> body. Great idea on paper; alas, there were no passes close to New >> Jersey in the hours prior to 9pm on Tuesday night. >> >> --Rob > Meteor's 4-billion-year space tour ends in N.J. > 4 experts confirm finding in Freehold Twp. > Saturday, January 06, 2007 > BY MARYANN SPOTO > Star-Ledger Staff > Upon further review, it came from outer space after all. > > The fist-sized hunk of rock that smashed through the roof of a > Freehold Township home earlier this week was declared a genuine > meteorite yesterday, making a bit of New Jersey history and solving > a riddle that had everyone from local police to the Federal Aviation > Administration hunting for answers. > > Three Rutgers University geologists and an independent scientist > determined the dense, kidney-shaped mass had been hurtling around > the universe for some 4.6 billion years before ending its galactic > journey Tuesday afternoon in a second-floor bathroom. > "This little guy is a meteorite," said Jeremy Delaney, who examined > the object with Rutgers colleagues Gail Ashley and Claire Condie. An > independent metallurgist, Peter Elliott, reached the same conclusion. > > "This would be a class of meteorites almost as old as the oldest > things we know," Delaney said "This is true solar system material." > > While strikes by rock-like objects from space are not rare -- an > estimated 20 to 50 rocky objects from outside the Earth's atmosphere > pelt the planet daily -- most meteorites are not recovered, and New > Jersey had been in a long space-rock drought. > > The last documented strike took place in Deal on Aug. 15, 1829. > > Delaney, who's verified only three meteorites from among all the > objects brought to him in his 30-year career, said he's surprised > there haven't been more. > > "It amazes me a state this big, with this many people, hasn't had > more falls observed and more materials collected," he said. "Most > objects I've seen have been meteor-wrongs. This was a meteor-right." > > The grayish-brown chunk, given the rather lackluster nickname > "Freehold Township," hails from the asteroid belt, a rock-strewn > expanse between Mars and Jupiter. It's either the core of a very > tiny heavenly body or the fragment of a larger one that broke up > sometime over the eons. > > From meteoritemike at gmail.com Fri May 8 20:14:14 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 19:14:14 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone remember this? In-Reply-To: <20090508150918.7Y1B5.204216.imail@fed1rmwml36> References: <20090508150918.7Y1B5.204216.imail@fed1rmwml36> Message-ID: I'm with Carl on this one - if it's space junk, then it's collectible - to me and to others. My main interest is meteorites, followed by tektites and impactites - with terrestrial rocks not far behind. But anything that is documented to fall from space and then strike the surface of the Earth interests me, even if a man sent it up into space in the first place. In fact, that makes it doubly-collectible - it would be the only manmade "meteorite" in my display or cabinet. :) Best regards to the list, MikeG On 5/8/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > Space junk. > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,272212,00.html > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5829 > > ---- MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: >> All, >> >> In my last post, I failed to tie the first point together with the >> second. >> >> >> Sometimes experts actually do get it right, but the members media of the >> media are the ones that twist it and make it wrong with misquotes. >> >> There is a story today in the Wichita paper (at least online) with a >> mistake in it, saying Geoff helped me dig up the big 1,430 pound Brenham >> 3 1/2 >> years ago. While Geoff did show up a couple of days later, and was >> instrumental in helping us get the word out to the media about the Main >> Mass find, >> he wasn't there when it was dug up, Phil Mani was. >> >> Who knows how that mistake happened? Neither Geoff or I said that to the >> >> reporter. She didn't pull that from an earlier story she wrote. Go >> figure? >> >> But now that it is in print, others will probably run with the "fact" in >> future stories. >> >> The poor Fire Chief at Monahans still has the stigma of taking the >> meteorite away from the boys that found it because an AP reporter stated >> it as >> fact. We all know it was the Police Chief of Monahans that confiscated >> the >> rock without the due process of law. >> >> "Little mistake" some will say. "Not a big deal" others would say. >> "Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story" still others would >> argue. >> >> It might be a big deal to the Fire Chief, or to Phil Mani, or to any of >> the other BILLIONS of people who would like to be able to believe that >> facts >> stated in the media are true as stated. >> >> If editors would edit, or if reporters would run a story buy the quoted >> person to fact check before it goes to print, mistakes could be avoided. >> >> >> But, deadlines have to be met. The next story has to be started. Ads >> have to be sold. >> >> It is life in the news media world. >> >> One day soon we won't have newspapers anymore. It will all be online. >> And mistakes will be able to be corrected in short order. >> >> Until then, we suffer, and do the best we can with what we've got. >> >> Steve Arnold >> >> >> >> >> In a message dated 5/8/2009 12:02:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >> MeteorHntr at aol.com writes: >> In a message dated 5/8/2009 11:25:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time, >> meteoritemike at gmail.com writes: >> I just don't understand how any "expert" could be fooled by that >> object in the first place. >> >> MikeG, >> >> It happens ALL the time. And reporter "experts" are sometimes the worst. >> >> I don't know how reporters can mess up simple facts. If it was >> political, >> it stands to reason why a reporter would error ALL the time in favor of >> their candidate or topic, but something as benign as meteorites, and >> they >> still mess things up. >> >> We should have a media "Hall of Shame" website devoted to chronicling >> all >> the meteorite mistakes as they happen! >> >> Here is the scenario: >> >> Geologist at the nearest Junior College gets a call from a reporter with >> >> the "facts": "Man has hole in his roof, with a metal rock on the floor >> under the hole. Fairly certain it is a meteorite, what do you think?" >> Expert, >> walking between classes he is teaching: "Does a magnet stick to this so >> called 'meteorite'?" Reporter: "Yes, strongly." >> >> Expert, choking on his coffee: "Sounds like it is the real deal, can I >> see >> it?" >> >> With TV cameras rolling, 2 hours later the expert arrives at the scene, >> with fresh images of meteorites in his head that he found on Google just >> >> before he headed out of the office, he is handed the object and he >> says... >> >> We all know what he says. Just read the quotes. >> >> That is how it happens. >> >> The universe is now rotating around him instead of the sun for a few >> days >> and his head is spinning on his great fortune. He starts swerving over >> into other areas of expertise like Financial Advising, telling the >> finder >> not >> to be suckered into selling his meteorite too cheap to the first greedy >> dealer that comes along to rip him off. >> >> Or he goes the other way and tells the finder, that if he donates the >> rock >> to his institution, that all the positive PR this will generate for his >> >> school will help him get on that tenured track he is coveting. Oh wait, >> >> he >> THINKS that, he actually tells the finder that only science will find >> the >> mysteries of the universe locked in his rock if he gives it to the >> school, >> and that if a dealer gets it instead, it will only be cut into pieces. >> >> He starts thinking about the grant money he can get when he writes the >> paper on it. Maybe he will get to speak at the Rotary Luncheon? Even >> now his >> students that laugh at him will HAVE to respect him. >> >> I could go on, about how "science" will have to look at the donated >> object >> through glass, as the committee at the school responsible for it won't >> allow it to ever be cut...but I won't. >> >> Shove a TV camera in front of about anyone, and it amazing what comes >> out >> of their mouth sometimes. >> >> Steve Arnold >> >> >> >> **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you >> now. >> >> (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> **************Remember Mom this Mother's Day! Find a florist near you now. >> >> (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=florist&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000006) >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Fri May 8 22:12:03 2009 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 19:12:03 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Perfect little Buzzard Coulee stones Message-ID: <00e001c9d04b$8b7f7340$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Hello all- Offered here for presale are 27 excellent quality stones from Buzzard Coulee. The arrangement with the farmer who allowed Mike Bandli and myself to hunt his land was a 50/50 split by weight regardless of quality. As such, we cherry picked only the finest pieces to offer to our customers and we now present them here on a first come first served basis, enjoy: http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com/catalog/buzzard.htm Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 From paul at meteorite.com Fri May 8 22:25:33 2009 From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 19:25:33 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] May Issue of Meteorite-Times is now up Message-ID: <4A04E99D.6020606@meteorite.com> Hello Everyone, The May issue of Meteorite-Times is now up. http://www.meteorite-times.com/ Thank you to all the writers for their continued support! Enjoy! Paul and Jim From cynapse at charter.net Fri May 8 23:26:23 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 22:26:23 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sounds like prime meteorite hunting territory In-Reply-To: <9C9E40CB-5849-4A1E-98A5-A53F9A0343A4@dof3.com> References: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1701149571@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com> <9C9E40CB-5849-4A1E-98A5-A53F9A0343A4@dof3.com> Message-ID: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/24922/1066/ Israeli desert is oldest known surface on Earth E-mail by William Atkins Saturday, 09 May 2009 Israeli ?French-U.S. scientists have confirmed that the oldest large-area surface on Earth is found in the Paran Plain (within the desert regions of the Sahara and Arabia) in southern Negev, Israel. The surface is estimated to be 1.5 to 1.8 million years old. It is noted that there are individual rocks, which have previously been analyzed, that are much older than this large-surface area, but this area in Israel is considered to be the oldest substantial area on the surface of the Earth. Because of erosion and general weathering, tectonic plate activity, and other such factors, most surfaces on Earth are relatively new in age, at least when compared to this very old spot. In fact, this newly found spot is over four times older than the previously known oldest spot, which is in Death Valley in Nevada (in the United States). The article ?Desert pavement-coated surfaces in extreme deserts present the longest-lived landforms on Earth? in the GeoScienceWorld Bulletin is authored by Ari Matmon, from The Institute of Earth Sciences, Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Israel, and his colleagues: Ori Simhai, Rivka Amit, Itai Haviv, Naomi Porat, Eric McDonald, Lucilla Benedetti, and Robert Finkel. Desert pavements are surfaces found in deserts that are covered with dense, interlocking rock fragments. The researchers state in their GSW Bulletin article that, ?All exposed rocks on Earth's surface experience erosion; the fastest rates are documented in rapidly uplifted monsoonal mountain ranges, and the slowest occur in extreme cold or warm deserts?millennial submeter-scale erosion may be approached only in the latter." And, "The oldest previously reported exposure ages are from boulders and clasts of resistant lithologies lying at the surface, and the slowest reported erosion rates are derived from bedrock outcrops or boulders that erode more slowly than their surroundings; thus, these oldest reported ages and slowest erosion rates relate to outstanding features in the landscape, while the surrounding landscape may erode faster and be younger.? A photograph of the surface is found on LiveScience.com. Its description says, "Desert pavement formed long ago in an area that is extremely flat and arid, where tectonic activity is low and rocks are highly resistant to weathering. A pencil is shown for scale." The age of the surface was determined by measuring the concentration of 10Be, an isotope, which is produced when a material is exposed to Earth?s atmosphere. The isotope 10Be is a beryllium isotope that is produced in the Earth?s atmosphere by the interaction of the elements oxygen and nitrogen with cosmic rays coming in from outer space. The isotope accumulates in soils but decays gradually (half-life of 1.51 million years) into 10B, a boron isotope. Dr. Matmon stated, "The surface we dated most likely represents large areas in the Sahara and Arabia Deserts. We hope to be able to collect samples from other locations in the Sahara and Arabia Deserts and establish the global extent of these old surfaces." From cynapse at charter.net Sat May 9 00:30:00 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 23:30:00 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks In-Reply-To: References: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1701149571@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com> <9C9E40CB-5849-4A1E-98A5-A53F9A0343A4@dof3.com> Message-ID: <3j1a059rm465uiolfopgmh5i53iaitba08@4ax.com> http://gizmodo.com/5242736/how-an-intern-stole-nasas-moon-rocks How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks By Carmel Hagen, 4:00 PM on Wed May 6 2009 In 2002, rogue NASA interns stole millions of dollars in moon rocks. This is the untold story of how they did it. Building 31 North's white halls are empty, because it is the middle of the night. NASA interns Thad Roberts and Tiffany duck inside a bathroom, and tear off their clothing. Then they change into the contents of their duffel bags?2mm thick neoprene bodysuits. Like in a bad movie, the suits will help Thad and Tiffany avoid heat sensors armed to feel out threatening climate changes inside a vault. The adrenaline, their attraction, the smell of rubber suits and the fear of failure is almost overwhelming. After pulling on the thermally shielded gear, Tiffany and Thad step back into the corridor, moving toward the turnstile lock that guards their target: NASA's prized stash of moon rocks. ******** Building 31 North, which sits on the grounds of Houston's Johnson Space Center, is where NASA keeps all 600 pounds of the moon rocks it has secured. They are the sole property of the government, collected over six lunar missions and protected with the dramatic intensity of national treasures. Building 31 North is one of the few buildings on earth constructed under Class 100 standards?it is a structure that can withstand 1000 years of water submersion, among other durability metrics that should not be tested this side of Armageddon. Breaking into it is designed to be impossible for normal people. But not harder than building a shuttle, or figuring out how to put a rover on Mars. The agency hires people with the ability to find solutions for intimidatingly large problems exactly like this one. In this regard, Roberts was your typical NASA intern. The 25-year-old was pursuing multiple degrees in Physics, Geology and Anthropology. But while Thad was school smart, he also has an almost unquencheable adrenaline-seeking side, and was consumed with a strange Excel spreadsheet of personal goals that read like he was trying to prove himself to Evel Knievel and a rocket scientist at the same time: Experience zero gravity, check; experience severe dehydration, check; find dinosaur tracks, no problem. The list was long, and as he checked off one after another, maybe Thad's ego began to believe anything was possible. But Thad wasn't in this alone. He was on his way to a divorce fueled by an affair he was having with fellow intern Tiffany Fowler. Tiffany was equally dynamic?a firecracker and former cheerleader who spoke French in bed and conducted stem cell research on NASA's behalf. Thad wanted her, so when Tiffany begged to hear his idea to liberate the moon rocks, he told her. And when she wanted to follow through with the plan, the romantic and exciting thing was to start hatching a plan as if it were yet another science problem at work. One that would could make them very rich, or ruin their lives. Soon one more curious co-op, the 19-year-old Shae Saur, had joined in on the heist. After months of preparation, they found themselves embarking on their unauthorized mission, driving for Building 31 North after dark with intel on every security device?and plans to get around them. When it comes to Thad's story, it is worth noting several things. I was not allowed to quote him directly from my interviews, and the others involved in the crime declined to verify his facts. This is his story as he told it to me. And in the time since, he's written a novel about the heist, which was "based on truth, but it's embellished." So, take the tale for what it's worth. The Space Center had been under 24-hour supervision since the 9/11 attacks, but the guards planted at each entryway are not in the habit of stopping NASA's carefully selected interns?who are always working?from entering after hours. The guard said, "You get a new car?" Thad replied, "No, sir. Borrowed it to help a friend move." So with a wave of a hand, Shae, Tiffany and Thad were granted access. Thad guided the Jeep Cherokee on the short journey past Rocket Park?an open sky cemetery of former rockets and spacecraft?then parked near the entryway of Building 31. Once they were in range, the three set about linking and looping the cameras inside Building 31, a system that they had previously taped between shifts of employees responsible for watching the cameras. It is unknown how Thad and company received the intel required to do such a thing, even if the idea itself is straight out of a heist flick. But Shae stayed in the car to monitor the rewired cameras, to warn Tiffany and Thad if anything went wrong. While they prepped, they watched for the presence of fellow late night co-workers, but Thad timed their arrival well and they are alone. So far so good. Thad and Tiffany crawled out of the Jeep, grabbed their duffel bags, and headed for the entryway. Getting inside the front door was easy?a former coworker had simply emailed Thad the code that would allow them access. Inside jobs are often like this, but NASA doesn't make it easy to steal moon rocks?the puzzle was only starting to get complicated. Inside the building, an unassuming university-like structure formed by blocks and filled with sterile white walls, Thad and Tiffany walked down well-lit hallways. The milky corridors, warmed by picture shrines to missions past, form the passageway between the offices of full time NASA employees, as well as the route to the inner sanctum of Building 31 North. They stopped to prepare. In the bathroom, when Thad and Tiffany put on their wetsuits, they also stopped to check their breathing apparatus. The moon rocks were in a chamber devoid of oxygen in order to keep the rocks from rotting by oxidation. They would have 15 minutes of air supplied from their tanks once they entered the nitrogen-filled chamber, past the airlock. If the interior of Building 31 can be described as white, then the interior of Building 31 North can be described as bleached?immaculate and bloodless in a wash of round-the-clock sterility. During the day, the single lab inside the pearly building buzzes with the movement of white jackets occupied by some of the biggest brains in the world. But at night, once the scientists have passed through the clean room that guards their entries and exits, the lab is nothing but white surfaces, cold metal, glass panels and the unearthly presence of nitrogen tanks. Thad and Tiffany's path took them straight through clean room and across the empty laboratory, leaving them at the edge of a short hall that dead-ended at the door to the vault. Breaking into the actual vault required a complex series of codes, some of which were cracked using a dusting of calcite, fluorite and gypsum powder. The mix of the three glows under blacklight, and by paying careful attention to the absorption of the powder it is possible to tell which finger came down first and so forth. It doesn't quite make sense that Thad could use this trick to figure out the exact sequence for all the codes, based off such rudimentary information. But once Thad had eventually thrown his whole weight against the vault door, the two were inside. The vault itself was much like the laboratory, a big room in which core samples and moon rocks are encased in glass and metal, numbered by mission. But they hadn't the time to admire their surroundings. To stay on track?or more importantly, to stay alive?Thad and Tiffany had only 3 minutes to crack the safe, or they wouldn't have enough air to get back outside. As the seconds crept onward, Thad continued to struggle with the code, so he quickly moved to plan B, which involved unbolting the heavy safe from the ground, loading it on to a small dolly and carting it back out to the car. It wasn't easy, but within the remaining time allotted to them, the two managed to slip out of the vault, through the laboratory, down the hallways, past the rooms, through the doors and out of the grounds undetected?all while dragging over a quarter ton of rocks and metal. No small feat, and I'm unsure of how, even on a dolly, a man and a woman could have moved it all. NASA didn't realize the safe was gone for two days. A list of suspects was slowly put together. There were no clues left behind?not a fingerprint, a piece of hair, nothing?so the resulting set of names (which was void of that of the actual culprits) looked more like a compiled NASA shitlist than anything else. The samples they took were from every Apollo mission, ever. Sometime between the heist and its resolution, Tiffany and Thad arranged the moon rocks on a bed?and had sex amongst them. ******** Typically, the life of NASA terrestrial moon rocks is dull. After reams of paperwork get approved, a small fragment of the rock makes its way out of this building and into the hands of a researcher, who for a period of time can coax the moon to give up its secrets. However, when the researcher's time is up, the rock must be returned to the safekeeping of its disaster-proof home, but now permanently compromised by the prods and chemical dousings that so rarely result in something worth talking about. By this point, the rock is considered too tainted for further use, but is subjected nonetheless to the same eager security as the rest of the contents of 31 North. The rocks, never to be touched again, go in the safe that Thad stole, which is kept inside the same vault where the untested moon rocks rest behind glass panels in a heavily monitored, oxygen-free climate to simulate the moon. It is worth noting that at any point in the vault, Thad or Tiffany could have used glasscutters to get to the untouched moon rocks behind a panel, but stole the much more difficult to carry safe instead. Why? There is significant frustration among NASA employees regarding the tested rocks. Tainted as they may be, many feel they deserve to be at least on display. Perhaps most irritatingly, they present an obvious answer to NASA's funding issues. Science's trash can be a collector's treasure, and the price on a piece of the moon, chemical-laden or otherwise, mirrors that of any other intergalactic relic. For these reasons, conversations about these stored rocks are as common on the grounds of the Johnson Space Center as the solving of more everyday astronautical problems. And NASA employees like to solve problems. To Thad Roberts, the problem of the underutilized-but-valuable moon rocks had a simple answer. He told me that if they were useless to science, he saw no harm in stealing them. And the fact he stole the safe, not the more easily taken fresh rocks, seems to back this up. On the other hand, the FBI's case files contradicts this notion: ...they also contaminated them?making them virtually useless to the scientific community. They also destroyed three decades worth of handwritten research notes by a NASA scientist that had been locked in the safe. Who do you trust less, a convicted thief, or the US government? The story, however, does not end here. ******** Gordon McWhorter, a friend of Thad's who was largely unaware of the magnitude of the heist, had helped to find a buyer for the rocks, across the internet. Greetings. My name is Orb Robinson from Tampa, Fla. I have in my possession a rare and multi-karat moon rock I'm trying to find a buyer for. The laws surrounding this type of exchange are known, so I will be straightforward and nonchalant about wanting to find a private buyer. If you, or someone you know would be interested in such an exchange, please let me know. Thanks. A Belgian amateur mineralogist by the name of Axel Emmermann had been coveting moon rocks as an addition to his unusual collection. Emmermann wanted the rocks if the price was right, and Thad had priced a quarter pound of moon far, far under NASA's post-crime estimate of over $30 million. The price was so right, in fact, that Emmermann grew suspicious, and worried that the deal might be less black and white than it seemed. On July 20, 2002?exactly 33 years to the day after the day that Armstrong first stepped on the moon?"Emmermann" met Thad in a Florida restaurant. They chatted, then headed for a hotel where the official swap was to take place. They all stepped out of the car. The Orlando Sentinel reported that Roberts joked, "I'm just hoping you don't have a wire on you." He was. The person Thad thought was Emmermann was actually an FBI agent. In moments, 40 agents, 40 guns and the sound of a helicopter overhead surrounded them. The freeway had even been shut down in case of escape. They'd been made. Tiffany and Thad were in a holding cell together for 24 hours, but that was the last time they'd be together until the sentencing date. In court, Thad looked back at her from his seat in the courtroom; Tiffany looked down at her feet. The punishments were doled out in unfair, interesting packages. Both of the girls were simply handed probation, but the boys were both dealt several years. Gordon was served nearly as harshly as Thad, who received 100 months for his planning, execution of the crime (a sentence that was later reduced). As if all of this wasn't enough, Thad was also brought up on charges of stealing dinosaur fossils from a dig site in Utah. The case was folded into this one. Thad spent his time in prison doing things befitting of an ex-NASA co-op, like teaching his inmates about quantum physics, but also spent a good deal of time mourning the loss of Tiffany. On August 4th, 2008, when his sentence was finished, he was dismayed to learn she had moved on. By that point, however, he had another thing in his possession, a completed book entitled Einstein's Intuition: Visualizing an Eleven-Dimensional Framework of Nature, An Introduction to Quantum Space Theory. That says that the book covers Einstein's theories of truth, the rational complete form of nature, and the interplay of the seen and the unseen. It has yet to be published. There are rumors of unsolved mysteries. Supposedly, two significant pieces of NASA history went missing during the time of the crime, and have not been recovered: The original video tapes of the 1969 Lunar Landing, and six folders of more mysterious content that were supposedly stored in the safe. Thad claims to have never seen them. Carmel Hagen serves as editor at realtime search engine OneRiot, where she guzzles Bawls energy drink and chucks empty bottles at PCs. In her spare time she sleeps, explores San Francisco, and writes for a solid mix of urban culture, trendsetting and tech publications. From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Sat May 9 06:57:48 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 06:57:48 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks In-Reply-To: <3j1a059rm465uiolfopgmh5i53iaitba08@4ax.com> References: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1701149571@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com> <9C9E40CB-5849-4A1E-98A5-A53F9A0343A4@dof3.com> <3j1a059rm465uiolfopgmh5i53iaitba08@4ax.com> Message-ID: Thieves.....I hate them! ---------------------------------------- > From: cynapse at charter.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 23:30:00 -0500 > Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks > > http://gizmodo.com/5242736/how-an-intern-stole-nasas-moon-rocks > > How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks > By Carmel Hagen, 4:00 PM on Wed May 6 2009 > > In 2002, rogue NASA interns stole millions of dollars in moon rocks. This is the > untold story of how they did it. > > Building 31 North's white halls are empty, because it is the middle of the > night. NASA interns Thad Roberts and Tiffany duck inside a bathroom, and tear > off their clothing. Then they change into the contents of their duffel bags?2mm > thick neoprene bodysuits. Like in a bad movie, the suits will help Thad and > Tiffany avoid heat sensors armed to feel out threatening climate changes inside > a vault. The adrenaline, their attraction, the smell of rubber suits and the > fear of failure is almost overwhelming. After pulling on the thermally shielded > gear, Tiffany and Thad step back into the corridor, moving toward the turnstile > lock that guards their target: NASA's prized stash of moon rocks. > > ******** > > Building 31 North, which sits on the grounds of Houston's Johnson Space Center, > is where NASA keeps all 600 pounds of the moon rocks it has secured. They are > the sole property of the government, collected over six lunar missions and > protected with the dramatic intensity of national treasures. Building 31 North > is one of the few buildings on earth constructed under Class 100 standards?it is > a structure that can withstand 1000 years of water submersion, among other > durability metrics that should not be tested this side of Armageddon. > > Breaking into it is designed to be impossible for normal people. But not harder > than building a shuttle, or figuring out how to put a rover on Mars. The agency > hires people with the ability to find solutions for intimidatingly large > problems exactly like this one. In this regard, Roberts was your typical NASA > intern. The 25-year-old was pursuing multiple degrees in Physics, Geology and > Anthropology. But while Thad was school smart, he also has an almost > unquencheable adrenaline-seeking side, and was consumed with a strange Excel > spreadsheet of personal goals that read like he was trying to prove himself to > Evel Knievel and a rocket scientist at the same time: Experience zero gravity, > check; experience severe dehydration, check; find dinosaur tracks, no problem. > The list was long, and as he checked off one after another, maybe Thad's ego > began to believe anything was possible. > > But Thad wasn't in this alone. He was on his way to a divorce fueled by an > affair he was having with fellow intern Tiffany Fowler. Tiffany was equally > dynamic?a firecracker and former cheerleader who spoke French in bed and > conducted stem cell research on NASA's behalf. Thad wanted her, so when Tiffany > begged to hear his idea to liberate the moon rocks, he told her. And when she > wanted to follow through with the plan, the romantic and exciting thing was to > start hatching a plan as if it were yet another science problem at work. One > that would could make them very rich, or ruin their lives. > > Soon one more curious co-op, the 19-year-old Shae Saur, had joined in on the > heist. After months of preparation, they found themselves embarking on their > unauthorized mission, driving for Building 31 North after dark with intel on > every security device?and plans to get around them. > > When it comes to Thad's story, it is worth noting several things. I was not > allowed to quote him directly from my interviews, and the others involved in the > crime declined to verify his facts. This is his story as he told it to me. And > in the time since, he's written a novel about the heist, which was "based on > truth, but it's embellished." So, take the tale for what it's worth. > > The Space Center had been under 24-hour supervision since the 9/11 attacks, but > the guards planted at each entryway are not in the habit of stopping NASA's > carefully selected interns?who are always working?from entering after hours. > > The guard said, "You get a new car?" > > Thad replied, "No, sir. Borrowed it to help a friend move." > > So with a wave of a hand, Shae, Tiffany and Thad were granted access. Thad > guided the Jeep Cherokee on the short journey past Rocket Park?an open sky > cemetery of former rockets and spacecraft?then parked near the entryway of > Building 31. > > Once they were in range, the three set about linking and looping the cameras > inside Building 31, a system that they had previously taped between shifts of > employees responsible for watching the cameras. It is unknown how Thad and > company received the intel required to do such a thing, even if the idea itself > is straight out of a heist flick. But Shae stayed in the car to monitor the > rewired cameras, to warn Tiffany and Thad if anything went wrong. While they > prepped, they watched for the presence of fellow late night co-workers, but Thad > timed their arrival well and they are alone. So far so good. Thad and Tiffany > crawled out of the Jeep, grabbed their duffel bags, and headed for the entryway. > Getting inside the front door was easy?a former coworker had simply emailed Thad > the code that would allow them access. Inside jobs are often like this, but NASA > doesn't make it easy to steal moon rocks?the puzzle was only starting to get > complicated. > > Inside the building, an unassuming university-like structure formed by blocks > and filled with sterile white walls, Thad and Tiffany walked down well-lit > hallways. The milky corridors, warmed by picture shrines to missions past, form > the passageway between the offices of full time NASA employees, as well as the > route to the inner sanctum of Building 31 North. They stopped to prepare. > > In the bathroom, when Thad and Tiffany put on their wetsuits, they also stopped > to check their breathing apparatus. The moon rocks were in a chamber devoid of > oxygen in order to keep the rocks from rotting by oxidation. They would have 15 > minutes of air supplied from their tanks once they entered the nitrogen-filled > chamber, past the airlock. > > If the interior of Building 31 can be described as white, then the interior of > Building 31 North can be described as bleached?immaculate and bloodless in a > wash of round-the-clock sterility. During the day, the single lab inside the > pearly building buzzes with the movement of white jackets occupied by some of > the biggest brains in the world. But at night, once the scientists have passed > through the clean room that guards their entries and exits, the lab is nothing > but white surfaces, cold metal, glass panels and the unearthly presence of > nitrogen tanks. Thad and Tiffany's path took them straight through clean room > and across the empty laboratory, leaving them at the edge of a short hall that > dead-ended at the door to the vault. > > Breaking into the actual vault required a complex series of codes, some of which > were cracked using a dusting of calcite, fluorite and gypsum powder. The mix of > the three glows under blacklight, and by paying careful attention to the > absorption of the powder it is possible to tell which finger came down first and > so forth. It doesn't quite make sense that Thad could use this trick to figure > out the exact sequence for all the codes, based off such rudimentary > information. But once Thad had eventually thrown his whole weight against the > vault door, the two were inside. > > The vault itself was much like the laboratory, a big room in which core samples > and moon rocks are encased in glass and metal, numbered by mission. But they > hadn't the time to admire their surroundings. To stay on track?or more > importantly, to stay alive?Thad and Tiffany had only 3 minutes to crack the > safe, or they wouldn't have enough air to get back outside. > > As the seconds crept onward, Thad continued to struggle with the code, so he > quickly moved to plan B, which involved unbolting the heavy safe from the > ground, loading it on to a small dolly and carting it back out to the car. It > wasn't easy, but within the remaining time allotted to them, the two managed to > slip out of the vault, through the laboratory, down the hallways, past the > rooms, through the doors and out of the grounds undetected?all while dragging > over a quarter ton of rocks and metal. No small feat, and I'm unsure of how, > even on a dolly, a man and a woman could have moved it all. > > NASA didn't realize the safe was gone for two days. A list of suspects was > slowly put together. There were no clues left behind?not a fingerprint, a piece > of hair, nothing?so the resulting set of names (which was void of that of the > actual culprits) looked more like a compiled NASA shitlist than anything else. > > The samples they took were from every Apollo mission, ever. Sometime between the > heist and its resolution, Tiffany and Thad arranged the moon rocks on a bed?and > had sex amongst them. > > ******** > > Typically, the life of NASA terrestrial moon rocks is dull. After reams of > paperwork get approved, a small fragment of the rock makes its way out of this > building and into the hands of a researcher, who for a period of time can coax > the moon to give up its secrets. However, when the researcher's time is up, the > rock must be returned to the safekeeping of its disaster-proof home, but now > permanently compromised by the prods and chemical dousings that so rarely result > in something worth talking about. > > By this point, the rock is considered too tainted for further use, but is > subjected nonetheless to the same eager security as the rest of the contents of > 31 North. The rocks, never to be touched again, go in the safe that Thad stole, > which is kept inside the same vault where the untested moon rocks rest behind > glass panels in a heavily monitored, oxygen-free climate to simulate the moon. > > It is worth noting that at any point in the vault, Thad or Tiffany could have > used glasscutters to get to the untouched moon rocks behind a panel, but stole > the much more difficult to carry safe instead. Why? > > There is significant frustration among NASA employees regarding the tested > rocks. Tainted as they may be, many feel they deserve to be at least on display. > Perhaps most irritatingly, they present an obvious answer to NASA's funding > issues. Science's trash can be a collector's treasure, and the price on a piece > of the moon, chemical-laden or otherwise, mirrors that of any other > intergalactic relic. For these reasons, conversations about these stored rocks > are as common on the grounds of the Johnson Space Center as the solving of more > everyday astronautical problems. And NASA employees like to solve problems. To > Thad Roberts, the problem of the underutilized-but-valuable moon rocks had a > simple answer. He told me that if they were useless to science, he saw no harm > in stealing them. And the fact he stole the safe, not the more easily taken > fresh rocks, seems to back this up. > > On the other hand, the FBI's case files contradicts this notion: > > ...they also contaminated them?making them virtually useless to the > scientific community. They also destroyed three decades worth of handwritten > research notes by a NASA scientist that had been locked in the safe. > > Who do you trust less, a convicted thief, or the US government? > > The story, however, does not end here. > > ******** > > Gordon McWhorter, a friend of Thad's who was largely unaware of the magnitude of > the heist, had helped to find a buyer for the rocks, across the internet. > > Greetings. > > My name is Orb Robinson from Tampa, Fla. I have in my possession a rare and > multi-karat moon rock I'm trying to find a buyer for. The laws surrounding this > type of exchange are known, so I will be straightforward and nonchalant about > wanting to find a private buyer. If you, or someone you know would be interested > in such an exchange, please let me know. > > Thanks. > > A Belgian amateur mineralogist by the name of Axel Emmermann had been coveting > moon rocks as an addition to his unusual collection. Emmermann wanted the rocks > if the price was right, and Thad had priced a quarter pound of moon far, far > under NASA's post-crime estimate of over $30 million. The price was so right, in > fact, that Emmermann grew suspicious, and worried that the deal might be less > black and white than it seemed. > > On July 20, 2002?exactly 33 years to the day after the day that Armstrong first > stepped on the moon?"Emmermann" met Thad in a Florida restaurant. They chatted, > then headed for a hotel where the official swap was to take place. They all > stepped out of the car. The Orlando Sentinel reported that Roberts joked, "I'm > just hoping you don't have a wire on you." He was. The person Thad thought was > Emmermann was actually an FBI agent. > In moments, 40 agents, 40 guns and the sound of a helicopter overhead surrounded > them. The freeway had even been shut down in case of escape. They'd been made. > > Tiffany and Thad were in a holding cell together for 24 hours, but that was the > last time they'd be together until the sentencing date. > > In court, Thad looked back at her from his seat in the courtroom; Tiffany looked > down at her feet. > > The punishments were doled out in unfair, interesting packages. Both of the > girls were simply handed probation, but the boys were both dealt several years. > Gordon was served nearly as harshly as Thad, who received 100 months for his > planning, execution of the crime (a sentence that was later reduced). As if all > of this wasn't enough, Thad was also brought up on charges of stealing dinosaur > fossils from a dig site in Utah. The case was folded into this one. > > Thad spent his time in prison doing things befitting of an ex-NASA co-op, like > teaching his inmates about quantum physics, but also spent a good deal of time > mourning the loss of Tiffany. On August 4th, 2008, when his sentence was > finished, he was dismayed to learn she had moved on. By that point, however, he > had another thing in his possession, a completed book entitled Einstein's > Intuition: Visualizing an Eleven-Dimensional Framework of Nature, An > Introduction to Quantum Space Theory. That says that the book covers Einstein's > theories of truth, the rational complete form of nature, and the interplay of > the seen and the unseen. It has yet to be published. > > There are rumors of unsolved mysteries. Supposedly, two significant pieces of > NASA history went missing during the time of the crime, and have not been > recovered: The original video tapes of the 1969 Lunar Landing, and six folders > of more mysterious content that were supposedly stored in the safe. Thad claims > to have never seen them. > > Carmel Hagen serves as editor at realtime search engine OneRiot, where she > guzzles Bawls energy drink and chucks empty bottles at PCs. In her spare time > she sleeps, explores San Francisco, and writes for a solid mix of urban culture, > trendsetting and tech publications. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Create a cool, new character for your Windows Live? Messenger. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9656621 From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sat May 9 09:25:05 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 15:25:05 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks In-Reply-To: References: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1701149571@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com><9C9E40CB-5849-4A1E-98A5-A53F9A0343A4@dof3.com> <3j1a059rm465uiolfopgmh5i53iaitba08@4ax.com> Message-ID: <000001c9d0a9$9165ad20$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Was that article an exercise in style? At least...due to the efforts of a few enthusiasts on the globe, everyone can have now his piece of Moon Rock at a price of a paperback :-) Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Pete Pete Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Mai 2009 12:58 An: cynapse at charter.net; meteoritelist meteoritelist Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks Thieves.....I hate them! ---------------------------------------- > From: cynapse at charter.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 23:30:00 -0500 > Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks > > http://gizmodo.com/5242736/how-an-intern-stole-nasas-moon-rocks > From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat May 9 10:11:22 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 09:11:22 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks In-Reply-To: <000001c9d0a9$9165ad20$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1701149571@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com> <9C9E40CB-5849-4A1E-98A5-A53F9A0343A4@dof3.com> <3j1a059rm465uiolfopgmh5i53iaitba08@4ax.com> <000001c9d0a9$9165ad20$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Is the story true? I read it and it sounds like pop-culture fiction. I've never heard anything about this elsewhere. If it's true, the thieves should be treated like Moon Rocks - sterilized and then locked up forever. On 5/9/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > Was that article an exercise in style? > > At least...due to the efforts of a few enthusiasts on the globe, > everyone can have now his piece of Moon Rock at a price of a paperback :-) > > Martin > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Pete > Pete > Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Mai 2009 12:58 > An: cynapse at charter.net; meteoritelist meteoritelist > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks > > > > > Thieves.....I hate them! > > ---------------------------------------- >> From: cynapse at charter.net >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 23:30:00 -0500 >> Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks >> >> http://gizmodo.com/5242736/how-an-intern-stole-nasas-moon-rocks >> > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From cynapse at charter.net Sat May 9 11:23:52 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 10:23:52 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks In-Reply-To: References: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1701149571@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com> <9C9E40CB-5849-4A1E-98A5-A53F9A0343A4@dof3.com> <3j1a059rm465uiolfopgmh5i53iaitba08@4ax.com> <000001c9d0a9$9165ad20$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 May 2009 09:11:22 -0500, you wrote: >Is the story true? I read it and it sounds like pop-culture fiction. > >I've never heard anything about this elsewhere. http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=%22Thad+Roberts%22+moon&as_user_ldate=2000/01&as_user_hdate=2009/12&scoring=t&hl=en&ned=us&nav_num=38 From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Sat May 9 10:31:33 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 16:31:33 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks In-Reply-To: References: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1701149571@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com> <9C9E40CB-5849-4A1E-98A5-A53F9A0343A4@dof3.com> <3j1a059rm465uiolfopgmh5i53iaitba08@4ax.com> <000001c9d0a9$9165ad20$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <000601c9d0b2$da3e6c90$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Yes, a safe was lifted there, as well as the part of the Good-Will Moon Rock, presented to Honduras was stolen and was tried to be trafficked in USA. Currently the Apollo-sample of Malta is missing. Once I saw a strange documentation (was it on BBC or on discovery?), where it was stated, that most of the Apollo-samples once distributed to the nations of the World would have been lost and are missing. Is that true? (was a strange documentation, a man with a big belly and a full beard driving an old car was shown as to be the "special agent" of NASA, searching for the missing Moon rocks...). Let's open a new thread: Identify the Moon Rock given to your country! I start. Germany should have 3 Moon Rocks. Two are given on permanent loan - one to the Technische Museum Berlin, the other is housed in the exhibition of the Ries-Crater-Museum in Noerdlingen (the astronauts got their a geological training in the Ries-Crater by Eugene Shoemaker). The Good-Will-piece donated to the Federal Rep. of Germany (don't know whether the former German Democratic Rep. got one too?), must be somewhere in the Deutsche Museum in Munich. Wasn't a longer time there, have to go there again, so I don't know, whether it's currently on display or somewhere in the storage (museums in Germany are sometimes somewhat strange in estimating, if an item could be attractive for the visitors or not...). Best! Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com] Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Mai 2009 16:11 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks Is the story true? I read it and it sounds like pop-culture fiction. I've never heard anything about this elsewhere. If it's true, the thieves should be treated like Moon Rocks - sterilized and then locked up forever. On 5/9/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > Was that article an exercise in style? > > At least...due to the efforts of a few enthusiasts on the globe, > everyone can have now his piece of Moon Rock at a price of a paperback :-) > > Martin > > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Pete > Pete > Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Mai 2009 12:58 > An: cynapse at charter.net; meteoritelist meteoritelist > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks > > > > > Thieves.....I hate them! > > ---------------------------------------- >> From: cynapse at charter.net >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 23:30:00 -0500 >> Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks >> >> http://gizmodo.com/5242736/how-an-intern-stole-nasas-moon-rocks >> > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sat May 9 10:40:54 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 09:40:54 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks In-Reply-To: <000601c9d0b2$da3e6c90$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1701149571@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com> <9C9E40CB-5849-4A1E-98A5-A53F9A0343A4@dof3.com> <3j1a059rm465uiolfopgmh5i53iaitba08@4ax.com> <000001c9d0a9$9165ad20$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <000601c9d0b2$da3e6c90$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Hi Martin, I did finally click on some of the embedded links in the story and saw the FBI followup article. The "ring leader" was sentenced to 8 years in prison - which here in America means he probably served about 2-3 years and then walked. (non-violent crime, ivy league white defendant with previously clean record, good behavior and early release) IMO, that sentence should have been 10 years served to deter any future idiocy of that nature. It made me sick to my stomach to imagine the loss of data and study potential these specimens suffered at the hands of these criminals. As a collector it rankles me, I cannot imagine how the scientists studying the samples must have felt. Perhaps a more fitting sentence for the thieves would be stoning by ordinary chondrites. Tie up the thieves to poles out in the open (third world style) and pelt them mercilessly with weathered-up UNWA from the Tucson bargain bin. ;) So, is there any list of missing lunar samples? How many pilfered moon rocks are floating around the collector's market, or sitting in someone's safe? Best regards, MikeG On 5/9/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > Yes, a safe was lifted there, > as well as the part of the Good-Will Moon Rock, presented to Honduras was > stolen and was tried to be trafficked in USA. > Currently the Apollo-sample of Malta is missing. > > Once I saw a strange documentation (was it on BBC or on discovery?), where > it was stated, that most of the Apollo-samples once distributed to the > nations of the World would have been lost and are missing. > Is that true? > (was a strange documentation, a man with a big belly and a full beard > driving an old car was shown as to be the "special agent" of NASA, searching > for the missing Moon rocks...). > > Let's open a new thread: Identify the Moon Rock given to your country! > > I start. > Germany should have 3 Moon Rocks. > Two are given on permanent loan - one to the Technische Museum Berlin, > the other is housed in the exhibition of the Ries-Crater-Museum in > Noerdlingen (the astronauts got their a geological training in the > Ries-Crater by Eugene Shoemaker). > The Good-Will-piece donated to the Federal Rep. of Germany (don't know > whether the former German Democratic Rep. got one too?), > must be somewhere in the Deutsche Museum in Munich. > Wasn't a longer time there, have to go there again, > so I don't know, whether it's currently on display or somewhere in the > storage (museums in Germany are sometimes somewhat strange in estimating, if > an item could be attractive for the visitors or not...). > > Best! > Martin > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com] > Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Mai 2009 16:11 > An: Martin Altmann > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks > > Is the story true? I read it and it sounds like pop-culture fiction. > > I've never heard anything about this elsewhere. > > If it's true, the thieves should be treated like Moon Rocks - > sterilized and then locked up forever. > > > On 5/9/09, Martin Altmann wrote: >> Was that article an exercise in style? >> >> At least...due to the efforts of a few enthusiasts on the globe, >> everyone can have now his piece of Moon Rock at a price of a paperback :-) >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Pete >> Pete >> Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Mai 2009 12:58 >> An: cynapse at charter.net; meteoritelist meteoritelist >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks >> >> >> >> >> Thieves.....I hate them! >> >> ---------------------------------------- >>> From: cynapse at charter.net >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 23:30:00 -0500 >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks >>> >>> http://gizmodo.com/5242736/how-an-intern-stole-nasas-moon-rocks >>> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From cynapse at charter.net Sat May 9 11:55:52 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 10:55:52 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Interesting piece on comets In-Reply-To: <3j1a059rm465uiolfopgmh5i53iaitba08@4ax.com> References: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1701149571@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com> <9C9E40CB-5849-4A1E-98A5-A53F9A0343A4@dof3.com> <3j1a059rm465uiolfopgmh5i53iaitba08@4ax.com> Message-ID: http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2009/05/where-do-comets.html#more From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Sat May 9 11:23:49 2009 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 08:23:49 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Killer end cut and new material ad/sale Message-ID: <468bf6050905090823o3e7b88fdl3dd3526e189eb588@mail.gmail.com> Hello all I have added a killer Toluca end cut and a nice Nantan end cut some beautiful full slice of Glorieta to my web site. You can see them here http://www.meteoritefinder.com/whats-new-sale.htm For those that may have missed these I have some exquisite Brenam pallasite with beautiful green crystals. http://www.meteoritefinder.com/brenham-pal.htm Then on E bay I have a killer full slice of Nantan, a very impressive 12 1/2 pound Canyon Diablo and some of my normal small but beautiful tid bits. You can see them here http://www.meteoritefinder.com/meteorite-auctions.htm -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sat May 9 12:00:03 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 12:00:03 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 9, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_9_2009.html __________________________ **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823232x1201398636/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= May5909footerNO62) From majesticmeteorites at gmail.com Sat May 9 12:12:17 2009 From: majesticmeteorites at gmail.com (Whitney Riner) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 12:12:17 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks In-Reply-To: <3j1a059rm465uiolfopgmh5i53iaitba08@4ax.com> References: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1701149571@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com> <9C9E40CB-5849-4A1E-98A5-A53F9A0343A4@dof3.com> <3j1a059rm465uiolfopgmh5i53iaitba08@4ax.com> Message-ID: A more recent theft of Apollo moon rock--2 educational disks stolen from a car in Virginia Beach. http://hamptonroads.com/node/48651 http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001816.html I not sure if these have been recovered. Best, Whitney From drtanuki at yahoo.com Sat May 9 12:16:41 2009 From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 09:16:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Dr. Brian Mason/Dr. King libraries for sale Message-ID: <772922.65435.qm@web53205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear List, I ahve just finished compiling another list of publications and catalogues from the libraries of the late Dr. Mason (Smithsonian)/ Dr.King (Harvard) library. There are several interesting publications and catalogues of meteorites in this lot, nearly 200 publications, some signed. Many are rare and hard to find. If anyone is interested please contact me off list. Thank you. I can provide the full Excel file to those interested in making an offer to purchase. All offers will be considered. Thank you. Dirk Ross...Tokyo From geoking at notkin.net Sat May 9 15:10:23 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 12:10:23 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" Extended Trailer / Teaser Now on YouTube Message-ID: Dear Listees: Greetings comrades. Our production company has uploaded an extended promo for "Meteorite Men" to YouTube. This is actually the opening sequence of the show. We hope you enjoy it, and US subscribers please tune in tomorrow, Sunday, at 9pm on Science Channel and Science Channel HD if you can. Please note that in some markets there is an earlier broadcast at 6 pm Pacific. For the rest of you, around the world, we do hope for news about an international release and/or DVD release and will let you know, when we know : ) This should give you a good idea of the flavor of the show: Extended trailer / teaser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pA-tYNwh1o Thanks to everyone who has given us feedback and encouragement along the way. Steve and I have been wrapped up in this project for seventeen months, and the generous support of our friends and colleagues means a whole lot to us. With best wishes to all, Geoff N. Tucson, AZ www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com From darryl at dof3.com Sat May 9 15:16:34 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 15:16:34 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" Extended Trailer / Teaser Now on YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6B6EF05F-51B1-41C4-99BD-197DC1E3A10A@dof3.com> So great! So completely great! Bravo to all involved. On May 9, 2009, at 3:10 PM, Notkin wrote: > Dear Listees: > > Greetings comrades. > > Our production company has uploaded an extended promo for "Meteorite > Men" to YouTube. > > This is actually the opening sequence of the show. We hope you enjoy > it, and US subscribers please tune in tomorrow, Sunday, at 9pm on > Science Channel and Science Channel HD if you can. Please note that > in some markets there is an earlier broadcast at 6 pm Pacific. For > the rest of you, around the world, we do hope for news about an > international release and/or DVD release and will let you know, when > we know : ) > > This should give you a good idea of the flavor of the show: > > Extended trailer / teaser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pA- > tYNwh1o > > > Thanks to everyone who has given us feedback and encouragement along > the way. Steve and I have been wrapped up in this project for > seventeen months, and the generous support of our friends and > colleagues means a whole lot to us. > > > With best wishes to all, > > Geoff N. > Tucson, AZ > > www.aerolite.org > www.meteoritemen.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sat May 9 15:17:43 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 09 May 2009 19:17:43 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" Extended Trailer / Teaser Message-ID: Geoff writes: "This should give you a good idea of the flavor of the show:" Extended trailer / teaser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pA-tYNwh1o Kudos from Germany! All thumbs UP! Wow! Bernd From waltbranch at birch.net Sat May 9 15:35:12 2009 From: waltbranch at birch.net (Walter Branch) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 15:35:12 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks References: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1701149571@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com><9C9E40CB-5849-4A1E-98A5-A53F9A0343A4@dof3.com><3j1a059rm465uiolfopgmh5i53iaitba08@4ax.com><000001c9d0a9$9165ad20$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2><000601c9d0b2$da3e6c90$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <848A20B8CF70484598A1F012AFC3E7AD@walterdesktop> Hello Mike, You really should consider switching to decafe ;-) -Walter Branch ----------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" To: "Martin Altmann" Cc: Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks Hi Martin, I did finally click on some of the embedded links in the story and saw the FBI followup article. The "ring leader" was sentenced to 8 years in prison - which here in America means he probably served about 2-3 years and then walked. (non-violent crime, ivy league white defendant with previously clean record, good behavior and early release) IMO, that sentence should have been 10 years served to deter any future idiocy of that nature. It made me sick to my stomach to imagine the loss of data and study potential these specimens suffered at the hands of these criminals. As a collector it rankles me, I cannot imagine how the scientists studying the samples must have felt. Perhaps a more fitting sentence for the thieves would be stoning by ordinary chondrites. Tie up the thieves to poles out in the open (third world style) and pelt them mercilessly with weathered-up UNWA from the Tucson bargain bin. ;) So, is there any list of missing lunar samples? How many pilfered moon rocks are floating around the collector's market, or sitting in someone's safe? Best regards, MikeG On 5/9/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > Yes, a safe was lifted there, > as well as the part of the Good-Will Moon Rock, presented to Honduras was > stolen and was tried to be trafficked in USA. > Currently the Apollo-sample of Malta is missing. > > Once I saw a strange documentation (was it on BBC or on discovery?), where > it was stated, that most of the Apollo-samples once distributed to the > nations of the World would have been lost and are missing. > Is that true? > (was a strange documentation, a man with a big belly and a full beard > driving an old car was shown as to be the "special agent" of NASA, > searching > for the missing Moon rocks...). > > Let's open a new thread: Identify the Moon Rock given to your country! > > I start. > Germany should have 3 Moon Rocks. > Two are given on permanent loan - one to the Technische Museum Berlin, > the other is housed in the exhibition of the Ries-Crater-Museum in > Noerdlingen (the astronauts got their a geological training in the > Ries-Crater by Eugene Shoemaker). > The Good-Will-piece donated to the Federal Rep. of Germany (don't know > whether the former German Democratic Rep. got one too?), > must be somewhere in the Deutsche Museum in Munich. > Wasn't a longer time there, have to go there again, > so I don't know, whether it's currently on display or somewhere in the > storage (museums in Germany are sometimes somewhat strange in estimating, > if > an item could be attractive for the visitors or not...). > > Best! > Martin > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com] > Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Mai 2009 16:11 > An: Martin Altmann > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks > > Is the story true? I read it and it sounds like pop-culture fiction. > > I've never heard anything about this elsewhere. > > If it's true, the thieves should be treated like Moon Rocks - > sterilized and then locked up forever. > > > On 5/9/09, Martin Altmann wrote: >> Was that article an exercise in style? >> >> At least...due to the efforts of a few enthusiasts on the globe, >> everyone can have now his piece of Moon Rock at a price of a paperback >> :-) >> >> Martin >> >> >> >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Pete >> Pete >> Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Mai 2009 12:58 >> An: cynapse at charter.net; meteoritelist meteoritelist >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks >> >> >> >> >> Thieves.....I hate them! >> >> ---------------------------------------- >>> From: cynapse at charter.net >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 23:30:00 -0500 >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks >>> >>> http://gizmodo.com/5242736/how-an-intern-stole-nasas-moon-rocks >>> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat May 9 15:47:56 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 12:47:56 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" Extended Trailer / Teaser Now on YouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A05DDEC.4080909@meteoritesusa.com> AWESOME! Love the adventure comic book theme, and the CGI graphics ROCK! Super Cool! Regards, Eric Notkin wrote: > Dear Listees: > > Greetings comrades. > > Our production company has uploaded an extended promo for "Meteorite > Men" to YouTube. > > This is actually the opening sequence of the show. We hope you enjoy > it, and US subscribers please tune in tomorrow, Sunday, at 9pm on > Science Channel and Science Channel HD if you can. Please note that in > some markets there is an earlier broadcast at 6 pm Pacific. For the > rest of you, around the world, we do hope for news about an > international release and/or DVD release and will let you know, when > we know : ) > > This should give you a good idea of the flavor of the show: > > Extended trailer / teaser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pA-tYNwh1o > > > Thanks to everyone who has given us feedback and encouragement along > the way. Steve and I have been wrapped up in this project for > seventeen months, and the generous support of our friends and > colleagues means a whole lot to us. > > > With best wishes to all, > > Geoff N. > Tucson, AZ > > www.aerolite.org > www.meteoritemen.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From griff6495 at msn.com Sat May 9 16:38:14 2009 From: griff6495 at msn.com (Floyd "Griff" Griffith) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 14:38:14 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Llooking for canyon diablo strewn field map Message-ID: Hello and good day all, I am seeking help. I am looking for any info and maps on the Canyon Diablo strewn field. I also need to know the direction flight. I am doing some research and this would sure help. Thanks in advance, Floyd "Griff" Griffith Parker, Colorado, USA From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sat May 9 17:06:39 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 09 May 2009 21:06:39 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Llooking for canyon diablo strewn field map Message-ID: Hello Floyd and List, "I am looking for any info and maps on the Canyon Diablo strewn field." There is no such thing as a "map" on the Canyon Diablo strewn field. But there is a map showing the "Distribution of Meteoric Material around Meteor Crater." This map can be found in Vagn Buchwald's trilogy "Iron Meteorites". Will send you a JPEG of it in a private mail! Best wishes, Bernd To: griff6495 at msn.com meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com From majbaermann at web.de Sat May 9 17:17:48 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 23:17:48 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" Extended Trailer / Teaser Now onYouTube References: Message-ID: <1A904A3166A14FD58FF53651910F8E44@thinkcentre> What a flavor! Smells like space spirit :) Seems to be a perfect blend of science, adventure and *swassshhh* visual & sound effects (my personal favorite are the screams accompanying the touch-down-videos ;-) An alternative for the musical background at the beginning at all events would have been http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L6BNub2sDY (I do know it from some opinion ... *ruminating* ) Thanks and congratulations, best, Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: "Notkin" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 9:10 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" Extended Trailer / Teaser Now onYouTube > Dear Listees: > > Greetings comrades. > > Our production company has uploaded an extended promo for "Meteorite Men" > to YouTube. > > This is actually the opening sequence of the show. We hope you enjoy it, > and US subscribers please tune in tomorrow, Sunday, at 9pm on Science > Channel and Science Channel HD if you can. Please note that in some > markets there is an earlier broadcast at 6 pm Pacific. For the rest of > you, around the world, we do hope for news about an international release > and/or DVD release and will let you know, when we know : ) > > This should give you a good idea of the flavor of the show: > > Extended trailer / teaser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pA-tYNwh1o > > > Thanks to everyone who has given us feedback and encouragement along the > way. Steve and I have been wrapped up in this project for seventeen > months, and the generous support of our friends and colleagues means a > whole lot to us. > > > With best wishes to all, > > Geoff N. > Tucson, AZ > > www.aerolite.org > www.meteoritemen.com > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mlblood at cox.net Sat May 9 17:33:35 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 14:33:35 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible New Bolide Reported today In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My friend, Eddie Garza reported this to me and said it was OK To pass on to the list: Hi Michael, Location: Corpus Christi Tx (flour bluff)? I was at my house sitting on the balcony looking north at the city. The time was approximately 11:42pm when I observed a bright greenish blue flash coming from the southeast night turned to day for a couple seconds. From my balcony I cannot not see behind and above me. I think possibly this was a Bolide. However, i did not hear any detonations or sonic booms that would accompany such an event. Immediately after the 1-2 second pulse of light, half the horizon's lights went out spid lights ect including one radio tower. The lights were still on here at my house yet the cable froze for 20 minutes.? my friend Jason who is a few miles north of my location reports" "Yeah I saw the flash in the air threw my windows then my power went out. I am near Cimarron and Saratoga." also "The flash was so bright it lit up my room. I have 3 huge windows facing the freeway. So I ran to the window and saw it get really bright and then bam all the lights went out after it went away.? Another car buddy Abel reports: "the flash i can say that i saw? my fiancee and my team member said they heard 2 loud bangs i was on my way to work,...i was on staples when i saw the flash it looked like it came from the bluff area and when it started then the flash sorta expanded" the news reported:KIIITV News Story Created: May 9, 2009 at 5:58 AM CDT? Story Updated: May 9, 2009 at 8:32 AM CDT? May 9, 2009 "From Padre Island, to the southside, S.P.I.D., and some parts of Ocean Drive, a large power outage early Saturday morning left much of the city in the dark. Police officials tell 3 News the outage was caused by a blown transformer on the cities southside. Workers were able to restore power within an hour. The power outage, however, caused a major fire.? The fire happened at a home on Glenmore, near Ocean Drive, a little after 12:30 Saturday morning. When fire crews arrived, they found heavy flames pouring from the attic and the front side of the home. Fire officials say the residents had lit a candle in a bedroom, due to the power outage and somehow that candle, caught the room on fire.? The fire was contained within 30 minutes, only one side of the home was damaged, and fortunately, no one was injured." Best Regards, -Eddie Garza From GeoZay at aol.com Sat May 9 17:45:39 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 17:45:39 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible New Bolide Reported today Message-ID: >>Police officials tell 3 News the outage was caused by a blown transformer on the cities southside. Workers were able to restore power within an hour.<< Putting everything together along with the report of a blown transformer, my money is on a blown transformer. It doesn't seem likely that a meteor was involved here. Those transformers sure make one heck of a bang when they go. :O) GeoZay **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823232x1201398636/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= May5909footerNO62) From schoner at mybluelight.com Sat May 9 19:17:17 2009 From: schoner at mybluelight.com (Steve Schoner) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 23:17:17 GMT Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks Message-ID: <20090509.171717.5169.0@webmail01.dca.untd.com> Meteoric moon rocks yes. They are cheap compared to the ones that were obtained by the Apollo missions. The only source that I know that offers real Apollo moon dust (that is all that one can legally own) is Florian Noller at Spaceflori, a dealer of Apollo and space era artifacts. I recently obtained (won) an Apollo 11 Moon Dust presentation, for an amazingly low price as few believed it was real. The last one of these is listed at Spaceflori for $1,895.00, Only a few hundred were made. And they are steadily increasing in value. Just a few grains of moon dust from the Sea of Tranquility obtained when Armstrong dropped the camera magazine, virtually in the same spot where he took his first step on the moon. Tiny specks of dust, a few strands of beta fibers from his spacesuit glove... in a tiny triangular swatch of tape that Mr. Slezak removed from that magazine as he was delegated to develop the first images from the moon. What is such worth? Certainly more than a meteorite lunar chip. The history of it is what makes it valuable. What it cost our nation to obtain, and the supreme risks that the astronauts had to endure to go to the moon for the first time. That, no matter how much moon rock that we later gather, will not compare to the first step on the moon, and the Apollo missions that follow, and the rocks that they brought home. Historical significance will forever make those rocks and dust valuable, and a true national treasure. Steve Schoner IMCA 4470 Message: 2 Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 15:25:05 +0200 From: "Martin Altmann" Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks To: Message-ID: <000001c9d0a9$9165ad20$177f2a59 at name86d88d87e2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Was that article an exercise in style? At least...due to the efforts of a few enthusiasts on the globe, everyone can have now his piece of Moon Rock at a price of a paperback :-) Martin ____________________________________________________________ Click here for to find products that will help grow your small business. http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdjQi9iDzDaeo9roLpGNO91LfkSQiznsWph5pa0p9zvpXielxSvhwU/ From meteorites at online.nl Sat May 9 21:27:09 2009 From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 03:27:09 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible New Bolide Reported today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C9E1DEBA656447EB792925AFBF561C3@laptop> ..........Another Garza stone ?? Did it land in Park Forest again? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Blood" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:33 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Possible New Bolide Reported today My friend, Eddie Garza reported this to me and said it was OK To pass on to the list: Hi Michael, Location: Corpus Christi Tx (flour bluff) I was at my house sitting on the balcony looking north at the city. The time was approximately 11:42pm when I observed a bright greenish blue flash coming from the southeast night turned to day for a couple seconds. From my balcony I cannot not see behind and above me. I think possibly this was a Bolide. However, i did not hear any detonations or sonic booms that would accompany such an event. Immediately after the 1-2 second pulse of light, half the horizon's lights went out spid lights ect including one radio tower. The lights were still on here at my house yet the cable froze for 20 minutes. my friend Jason who is a few miles north of my location reports" "Yeah I saw the flash in the air threw my windows then my power went out. I am near Cimarron and Saratoga." also "The flash was so bright it lit up my room. I have 3 huge windows facing the freeway. So I ran to the window and saw it get really bright and then bam all the lights went out after it went away. Another car buddy Abel reports: "the flash i can say that i saw my fiancee and my team member said they heard 2 loud bangs i was on my way to work,...i was on staples when i saw the flash it looked like it came from the bluff area and when it started then the flash sorta expanded" the news reported:KIIITV News Story Created: May 9, 2009 at 5:58 AM CDT Story Updated: May 9, 2009 at 8:32 AM CDT May 9, 2009 "From Padre Island, to the southside, S.P.I.D., and some parts of Ocean Drive, a large power outage early Saturday morning left much of the city in the dark. Police officials tell 3 News the outage was caused by a blown transformer on the cities southside. Workers were able to restore power within an hour. The power outage, however, caused a major fire. The fire happened at a home on Glenmore, near Ocean Drive, a little after 12:30 Saturday morning. When fire crews arrived, they found heavy flames pouring from the attic and the front side of the home. Fire officials say the residents had lit a candle in a bedroom, due to the power outage and somehow that candle, caught the room on fire. The fire was contained within 30 minutes, only one side of the home was damaged, and fortunately, no one was injured." Best Regards, -Eddie Garza ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.12.23/2106 - Release Date: 05/09/09 06:54:00 From edwinthompson at comcast.net Sat May 9 23:28:43 2009 From: edwinthompson at comcast.net (edwinthompson at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 03:28:43 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - D'Orbigny for only $200.00 per gram In-Reply-To: <1524657072.6012201241926045872.JavaMail.root@sz0040a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1007219841.6012391241926123200.JavaMail.root@sz0040a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hi Folks, hey check out the main mass of D'Orbigny angrite now offered on Ebay for $200 per gram. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200334816725&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT Are there any curators out there that would like to add D'Orbigny angrite to their collections? We have fragments from five grams to one kilo in size available for museum trades. Our material is currently on loan for research but we should have it back in a few months. Cheers, Edwin and Patrick Thompson etmeteorites.com etmeteorites at hotmail.com From mexicodoug at aim.com Sat May 9 23:35:11 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 23:35:11 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks In-Reply-To: <848A20B8CF70484598A1F012AFC3E7AD@walterdesktop> References: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1701149571@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com><9C9E40CB-5849-4A1E-98A5-A53F9A0343A4@dof3.com><3j1a059rm465uiolfopgmh5i53iaitba08@4ax.com><000001c9d0a9$9165ad20$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2><000601c9d0b2$da3e6c90$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <848A20B8CF70484598A1F012AFC3E7AD@walterdesktop> Message-ID: <8CB9F37747CF563-12BC-3687@WEBMAIL-MZ09.sysops.aol.com> Hello Walter, List! This theft of Moon rocks story has seriously been the embarrassment of the century for JSC. Thankfully time is passing and wounds are healing. It was a very sad chapter for responsibility and ethics for the entire academic community. Mike said: "Tie up the thieves to poles out in the open (third world style) and pelt them mercilessly with weathered-up UNWA from the Tucson bargain bin. ;)" Mike, EDITORIAL The comment "Third World Style" just hit a nerve. Did you know he dreamed on going on ANSMET expeditions? Mr. Roberts nearly served out his entire term (served 7 and a half years) without much judicial mercy, which was twice the guideline as the judge was responding to political pressures in sentencing. When you say, "The "ringleader" was sentenced to 8 years in prison - which here in America means he probably served about 2-3 years and then walked. non-violent crime, ivy league white defendant with previously clean record, good behavior and early release" It's a bit inciting and unrelated to this case, even you are just expressing general frustration with the United States judicial system which many of us may and may not agree. I suspect the judge who sentenced these aspiring scientists shared this line of thinking. Oh, Roberts was definitely not Ivy League. He lifted himself up and then crashed and burned all by his own bootstraps. The political nature of w hat happened is the driver here. Far from the research and material allegedly compromised (Is there any specific place in the scientific literature where this was cited as compromising results?), it was a shot into the heart of public faith of national curation of taxpayer financed recovered material from the moon and ANSMET in what NASA would like everyone to have believed was the Fort Knox of science. Mr. Roberts was made a whipping boy to divert attention from the whole fiasco as this sort of failure IMO should have had much greater repercussions. Sure, some positive changes were made as a result, but who can say with a straight face that "rogue interns" are only to blame, and weave a Tom Clancy novel out the smokescreen. The labeling of them as "Rogue Interns" at te time only gives me the willies that taxpayers' were being mislead, a rogue asteroid, maybe, but please ... these are three typical nerds gone completely unsupervised in the heart of America's treasure chest. It strikes me as odd that three interns with different backgrounds all passing the incredibly competitive and difficult intern selection process would all go for this, that would have left many of us in the dust intellectually. We are talking three highly talented people here that are all typical high achievers, great leaders, and hand picked by NASA for that quality specifically - not brainwashed zombies... Consider the punishment for the two=2 0female accomplices. They received no prison time (a special waiver from sentencing guidelines), and were able to continue their education so they could make a positive contribution to society. Now, if I am to understand the arguments of the prosecution, Mr. Roberts was the "Mastermind" who was the brightest of the bunch, and the other two were zombies that just had temporary lapses of judgement. However, elsewhere Fowler is described as a woman who challenged Cool Hand Thad to the point of earning his great respect and becoming his dream girl. If I follow that so-called genius logic, it was mastermind Roberts who could have made the most valuable contributions to society, yet he was the only intern they nailed (and Darren claims Bubba did too). Of course I don't follow that logic. I just suspect "third-world" justice was imparted and it was an implicit case of gender discrimination for a more noble cause of needing a scapegoat, as the women no doubt were equally qualified in everything and probably more meticulous instead of arrogant fools likeThad Roberts. I suspect that the theft was not much more difficult to execute than a bunch of high-schoolers stealing a road sign due to the lack of a few minor but key appropriate controls. I mean, these guys stole a 600 pound safe from JSC - and carted it out on a WalMart dolly which they bought a few hours before, in all this said to be "premeditation for 0Amonths". Many things just don't exactly add up on a critical reading. Mr. Robert's view is especially amusing in understanding his motives here. He justified the whole thing by saying that these rocks would not be missed because they were already contaminated as they were used leftover returns of material that had been subjected to scientific test and which was supposedly never to be used again - (apparently there is some basis to this, though rife with misinterpretation). He argued that the rocks were locked up never to see the light of day again and thus he was doing a favor, this physics geek, by liberating them. Perhaps his real motivation, was his own admission of being out of his league, but hopelessly obsessed, in trying to impress to assist in getting intimate with former Texas cheerleader, Ms. Fowler, the whole time pic: http://www.baylor.edu/content/imglib/19876.jpg . So much that it had destroyed his marriage with his wife Kaydee at the same time this whole thing was planned (Kaydee herself a woman with a superb and strong mind). So Roberts was clearly messed up as a boy in a broken marriage trying to impress his new exciting woman he thought he couldn't have. He went to the extreme to get her attention... Now, 8 years later the first thing he does when he is released, this diabolical guy does - is go after her again to beg to resume an 8-year old intimate relationship. Well, I'm sure jail war ped his mind, but it doesn't meet the smell test for "manipulative" and "mastermind" that he was labeled with - more evidence of a nerd who just never understood the real world; that this was third-world justice of the most arbitrary kind, and this guy was just wetting his diapers like the rest of them while dreaming he was Mr. Crown of the Thomas Crown Affair pursuing Rene Z. This story is nothing new, just a variant of the 2004 article posted to the list from the LA Times. Except, I hadn't notice the comment that Mr. Roberts and Ms. Fowler laid out all the stolen rocks on a bed in a hotel room and had intimate relations among the stolen moon rocks and meteorites, shortly after their heist. Well, when comments like this start getting cycled, you can bet that a potential movie deal is not far off. That is the only all-American part I see in this whole scandal. One of the oddest things to me was the claim that there were 6 notebooks containing a researcher's original notes packed in the safe with the rocks. Apparently this claim was never proven despite the FBI's forensic resources. Considering all of the interns turned against each other looking for clemency, I find it surprising, that this was categorically denied, if in fact, they had been there. What is even more amusing is that a scientist would store his notebooks in the relatively small safe with all of these specimens. Of course it is possible, but it just seems awfully strange that handwritten unbackedup notes of 33 years of one leading researcher would be commingled with Lunar material under any conditions, rather than store them with his own things. In any case again, at first reading and makes you think twice, considering this was the most experienced lab in the world... In the end, what happened with Fowler, who was an equal during the theft? Ans: She is a graduate student now at Texas A&M College Station in Wayne Versaw's group being financed by the US government under an NSF grant. That's taxpayer supported. I am sure she is a bright woman, and life hasn't been easy, so if you root for the underdog, I guess it is almost admirable what she's managed to do... And What of Shae Saur, the younger woman who wanted a piece of the action and acted as the lookout during the operation, and kept the stolen goods in her storage locker while these dreamers went about emailing the hot goods for sales? Ans: She became president of the Society of Women Engineers as she worked on her engineering degree at the University of Texas in San Antonio. I can't help think of the reforms she must have made to deserve this, not to mention that here again is an example of a woman that is a leader, not an automaton programmed by ol' Roberts, acting of all things - as a role model to women engineers. And what of Axe l? Ans: He was a list contributor a while back. But it seems he never received a thank you token Moon Rock from NASA as others including myself thought would be most appropriate. I?ll stop there, because the rest of the actors will most likely receive a bit of unneeded notoriety when the movie comes out... Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Walter Branch To: Galactic Stone & Ironworks Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, 9 May 2009 2:35 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks Hello Mike,? ? You really should consider switching to decafe ;-)? ? -Walter Branch? -----------------------------------------------------? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" ? To: "Martin Altmann" ? Cc: ? Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 10:40 AM? Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks? ? Hi Martin,? ? I did finally click on some of the embedded links in the story and saw? the FBI followup article. The "ring leader" was sentenced to 8 years? in prison - which here in America means he probably served about 2-3? years and then walked. (non-violent crime, ivy league white defendant? with previously clean record, good behavior and early rel ease)? ? IMO, that sentence should have been 10 years served to deter any? future idiocy of that nature.? ? It made me sick to my stomach to imagine the loss of data and study? potential these specimens suffered at the hands of these criminals.? As a collector it rankles me, I cannot imagine how the scientists? studying the samples must have felt. Perhaps a more fitting sentence? for the thieves would be stoning by ordinary chondrites. Tie up the? thieves to poles out in the open (third world style) and pelt them? mercilessly with weathered-up UNWA from the Tucson bargain bin. ;)? ? So, is there any list of missing lunar samples? How many pilfered? moon rocks are floating around the collector's market, or sitting in? someone's safe?? ? Best regards,? ? MikeG? ? ? On 5/9/09, Martin Altmann wrote:? > Yes, a safe was lifted there,? > as well as the part of the Good-Will Moon Rock, presented to Honduras was? > stolen and was tried to be trafficked in USA.? > Currently the Apollo-sample of Malta is missing.? >? > Once I saw a strange documentation (was it on BBC or on discovery?), where? > it was stated, that most of the Apollo-samples once distributed to the? > nations of the World would have been lost and are missing.? > Is that true?? > (was a strange documentati on, a man with a big belly and a full beard? > driving an old car was shown as to be the "special agent" of NASA, > searching? > for the missing Moon rocks...).? >? > Let's open a new thread: Identify the Moon Rock given to your country!? >? > I start.? > Germany should have 3 Moon Rocks.? > Two are given on permanent loan - one to the Technische Museum Berlin,? > the other is housed in the exhibition of the Ries-Crater-Museum in? > Noerdlingen (the astronauts got their a geological training in the? > Ries-Crater by Eugene Shoemaker).? > The Good-Will-piece donated to the Federal Rep. of Germany (don't know? > whether the former German Democratic Rep. got one too?),? > must be somewhere in the Deutsche Museum in Munich.? > Wasn't a longer time there, have to go there again,? > so I don't know, whether it's currently on display or somewhere in the? > storage (museums in Germany are sometimes somewhat strange in estimating, > if? > an item could be attractive for the visitors or not...).? >? > Best!? > Martin? >? > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----? > Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com]? > Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Mai 2009 16:11? > An: Martin Altmann? > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks? >? > I s the story true? I read it and it sounds like pop-culture fiction.? >? > I've never heard anything about this elsewhere.? >? > If it's true, the thieves should be treated like Moon Rocks -? > sterilized and then locked up forever.? >? >? > On 5/9/09, Martin Altmann wrote:? >> Was that article an exercise in style?? >>? >> At least...due to the efforts of a few enthusiasts on the globe,? >> everyone can have now his piece of Moon Rock at a price of a paperback >> :-)? >>? >> Martin? >>? >>? >>? >>? >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----? >> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com? >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Pete? >> Pete? >> Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Mai 2009 12:58? >> An: cynapse at charter.net; meteoritelist meteoritelist? >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks? >>? >>? >>? >>? >> Thieves.....I hate them!? >>? >> ----------------------------------------? >>> From: cynapse at charter.net? >>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? >>> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 23:30:00 -0500? >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks? >>>? >>> http://gizmodo.com/5242736/how-an-intern-stole-nasas-moon-rocks? >>>? >>? >>? >> ______________________________________________? >> http://www.meteoritecen tral.com? >> Meteorite-list mailing list? >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? >>? >? >? > --? > .........................................................? > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)? > Member of the Meteoritical Society.? > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.? > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com? > ..........................................................? >? > ______________________________________________? > http://www.meteoritecentral.com? > Meteorite-list mailing list? > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? >? ? -- .........................................................? Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)? Member of the Meteoritical Society.? Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.? Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com? ..........................................................? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? ? ______________________________________________? http://www.meteoritecentral.com? Meteorite-list mailing list? Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com? http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list? From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sun May 10 00:23:52 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 21:23:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Scored a Polarizing scope-- need Manual: MRH3-POL LOMO Message-ID: <566737.81737.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com> After 6+ years of looking for an affordable polarizing scope, I found a MRH3-POL LOMO Polarizing scope complete with external lamp power supply. I found it at non-profit thrift store in Kentucky. I paid the full asking price... $20. On the LOMO US websites they have no link and only who knows what on their Russian Language site. I can't find a manual for it PDF on line or otherwise. Does anyone have a .pdf for the MRH3 or 4 POL they could send me or send me to the link? Or from a similar scope? Today Google wasn't my friend. Elton From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sun May 10 01:07:12 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 22:07:12 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Daylight Fireball! Meteor Plane or Space Debris? Message-ID: <4A066100.9000304@meteoritesusa.com> Don't know what to make of this one. Dual smoke trails? Or does it only to appear to be two smoke trails. The event happened West-NorthWest of Rottnest Island, a small island off the southwestern coast of Australia near Perth. Complete with photo and article of the sighting. http://fremantlebiz.livejournal.com/483475.html Interesting... But alas, if this is a meteor fireball it's probably swimmin' wit' da fishes right now. -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From GeoZay at aol.com Sun May 10 02:27:17 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 02:27:17 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Daylight Fireball! Meteor Plane or Space Debris? Message-ID: >>Don't know what to make of this one. Dual smoke trails? Or does it only to appear to be two smoke trails.<< Well...the trail does not look like any meteor trails I've ever seen...that is its not squiggily. I'm leaning towards it being an airplane of some kind. GeoZay **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222376999x1201454299/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=M ay51009AvgfooterNO62) From chinaren76 at yahoo.com Sun May 10 03:00:04 2009 From: chinaren76 at yahoo.com (Ma Lan) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 00:00:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] A brief document on Zunhua meteorite PDF download Message-ID: <268841.95958.qm@web52711.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hello list, The following is a brief doc on Zunhua meteorite, i present it to Zunhua buyers or owners, http://www.esnips.com/web/AbriefdocumentonZunhuameteorite Best wishes, Ma Lan Beijing China From piper at xs4all.nl Sun May 10 06:30:26 2009 From: piper at xs4all.nl (Piper R.W. Hollier) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 12:30:26 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Llooking for canyon diablo strewn field map In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200905101034.n4AAY0JW098807@smtp-vbr11.xs4all.nl> Hi Floyd, Bernd, and list, At 22:38 09-05-09, Floyd wrote: >I am seeking help. I am looking for any info and maps on the Canyon >Diablo strewn field. The map that Bernd mentions was made by Samuel J. Holsinger and dated November 1908. Holsinger was Daniel Barringer's drilling supervisor at the crater for many years and namesake of the 639 kg Holsinger fragment, the largest known individual meteorite found to date in the vicinity of the crater. A jpg of the map can be viewed here: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v434/n7030/extref/434157a-s3.jpg The map marks the location of both meteoric iron siderites and iron oxide shale balls. Nearly all locations marked on the map fall within a circle with a radius of 5.5 miles centered on the crater. Curious minds wonder whether fragments are now being found even further away, thanks to the miracle of modern metal detectors. One interesting aspect of Holsinger's map is that the distribution within one mile of the crater was strongly assymmetric, with the preponderance of the fragments found to the northeast of the crater. >I also need to know the direction flight. It has long been believed that the meteoroid came in from the north or northeast, based mainly on the asymmetric uplift of the rim, which is higher on the south side. The asymmetric distribution of fragments outside the crater and near to it may support this trajectory hypothesis. This short article mentions a north or northeasterly trajectory and an angle of 80 degrees, though it does not mention sources for this information: http://content.zdnet.com/2346-9595_22-95512.html Does anyone out there know of a journal article where the 80 degree angle is discussed, with the rationale behind proposing this value for the trajectory angle? Best wishes to all, Piper From piper at xs4all.nl Sun May 10 06:32:43 2009 From: piper at xs4all.nl (Piper R.W. Hollier) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 12:32:43 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Where was Holsinger fragment found? Message-ID: <200905101035.n4AAZK1b037121@smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl> Hello list, Does anyone have a reference for where the 639 kg Holsinger fragment was found, i.e. how far from Meteor Crater, in which direction, and how deep? Thanks in advance for any lead(s) on this. Best wishes to all, Piper From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sun May 10 06:36:43 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 10 May 2009 10:36:43 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Where was Holsinger fragment found? Message-ID: Hello Piper and List, "Does anyone have a reference for where the 639 kg Holsinger fragment was found, i.e. how far from Meteor Crater, in which direction, and how deep?" The 639 kg specimen with maximum dimensions of 90x70x35 cm was found in 1911 about 2.5 km north-northeast of the crater rim (Buchwald, p. 389). Best Sunday* wishes, Bernd *Mothers' Day here in Germany! From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sun May 10 07:02:22 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 10 May 2009 11:02:22 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for canyon diablo strewn field map (cont.) Message-ID: Hi Floyd, Piper and List, The National Geographic Magazine, June 1928, pp. 720-730. The Mysterious Tomb Of A Giant Meteorite (by William D. Boutwell): Mystery Still Surrounds The Crater (p. 726, excerpt): "Then geologists began to examine the crater walls more in detail. They observed that the tilted angle of the rock strata varied. On the south side it was raised nearly 90 degrees; on the north side no more than 5 degrees from the horizontal. They noticed that the tilt was progressively greater on both sides from north to south; also, that a whole 2,000-foot sector of the southern wall was lifted vertically about 100 feet. >From this and other evidence the conclusion was reached that the mass of the meteorite struck from the north at an angle, crashed through the limestone and sandstone, and imbedded itself in a harder red sandstone at a point under the south wall of the crater." Best wishes from Germany, Bernd From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sun May 10 07:24:53 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 10 May 2009 11:24:53 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for canyon diablo strewn field map Message-ID: Hello again, "Does anyone out there know of a journal article where the 80 degree angle is discussed, with the rationale behind proposing this value for the trajectory angle?" D.J. Roddy and E.M. Shoemaker (1995) Meteor Crater: Summary of impact conditions (Meteoritics 30-5, 1995, A567, excerpts): "Since the late 1950s, studies of this crater have presented an increasingly clearer view of this impact and its effects and have provided an improved view of impact cratering in general. To expand on this dataset, we are preparing an upgraded summary on the Meteor Crater event ... including inormation and interpretations on (1)...(2)...(3) estimated speed, trajectory, angle of impact, ... the trajectory of the impacting body is interpreted by EMS (= E.M. Shoemaker) as traveling north-northwest at a relatively low impact angle..." I don't know whether E.M. Shoemaker still had time enough to publish this "upgraded summary" before his tragic accident in Australia. Best Sunday wishes to all, Bernd From meteorites at online.nl Sun May 10 09:14:48 2009 From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 15:14:48 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Park Forest Garza Stone 178 grams. Message-ID: <561586BC17AA422A80E899174BE5AE94@laptop> Listioids, Before it goes to Ebay: The Park Forest fragment we offer is a 178,2 gram crusted fragment. This is the piece seen many times on the news, together with the 2,2 kg. main mass when a park Forest police officer is showing how the 178 grams piece fits perfectly on the main mass. Collectors who own the Park Forest dvd sure will recognize the fragment seen many times there. Another thing which makes this fragment extra special is that when it broke off from the main mass during impact, it smashed through the window and landed outside on the patio. This means this is the only meteorite in existence which landed in a house and went back outside again!!! Another rarest items including this Museum display set is an insect, a termite which was found along the debris on the floor of the bedroom. It seems that during impact it was hidden in the ceiling together with a few others. It was taken to an entomologist which confirmed that by a flexibility test of the wings it was highly possible that the time of death was caused by the impact. This means this may be the only animal in existence which remained for display. Another animal, a cow which was hit by the Valera meteorite has gone forever. The Termite was obtained from the Hupes, all other meteorite items from this event were obtained from Fernlea meteorites. The following items include this rarest historical museum display set: The Park Forest meteorite "Garza" fragment of 178,2 grams. It has a beautiful crust, brown stains from hitting the wooden joist and white spots from the plaster ceiling. Large fragment of the wooden joist (as seen on the pictures here) It clearly shows the point of impact of the meteorite. 3 large pieces of ceiling plaster fragments. The termite, nicely protected in a membrane box. Pieces of the Venetian blinds that were at the window and got damaged by the meteorite. Pieces of glass from the bedroom window where the meteorite fell through. A hand signed letter of authenticity from Mr. Garza, provided by Rob Elliot from Fernlea meteorites. It is no doubt this highly collectible set should belong to a museum collection!! Please do not email for separate sales of the items. The set will stay complete at all times. Shipping options will be discussed after the sale is complete and the shipping cost will be added to the final amount. Shipping only to the U.S, Europe and Australia. Offers starting at $11.000 are welcome. This means it's priced for a little over $60.00 per gram including all impact items. Pictures on request, off list please. NO TRADES. Paypal only. Best, Jan. IMCA 9833 Holland From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun May 10 10:04:38 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 09:04:38 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks In-Reply-To: <8CB9F37747CF563-12BC-3687@WEBMAIL-MZ09.sysops.aol.com> References: <7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F1701149571@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com> <3j1a059rm465uiolfopgmh5i53iaitba08@4ax.com> <000001c9d0a9$9165ad20$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <000601c9d0b2$da3e6c90$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <848A20B8CF70484598A1F012AFC3E7AD@walterdesktop> <8CB9F37747CF563-12BC-3687@WEBMAIL-MZ09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Doug and List - What I should have said, instead of "third world" was - "medieval" Either way, I'd like to throw 1kg UNWA chondrites at the thieves. I noticed you said this in your excellent reply - " these are three typical nerds gone completely > unsupervised in the heart of America's treasure chest. It strikes me as > odd that three interns with different backgrounds all passing the > incredibly competitive and difficult intern selection process would all > go for this, that would have left many of us in the dust > intellectually. We are talking three highly talented people here that > are all typical high achievers, great leaders, and hand picked by NASA > for that quality specifically - not brainwashed zombies..." One of my Dad's distant relatives came to visit us many years ago. She had multiple college degrees, including a doctorate she was quite proud of. She was also a member of Mensa. This person didn't have the common sense to make ice cubes or come in from the rain. Book smart, yes. Truly smart, no. To this day, I have never seen such a staggering lack of common sense in a human being. I've seen high school dropouts with more smarts. So don't think just because NASA selected these interns, that they must be brilliant minds. Afterall, the same NASA that selected them is the same NASA that allowed them to steal the moon rock safe. Not exactly a bunch of rocket scientists here - pun intended. Their punishments were too lenient - all of them. What's more, the government should have been called to task publicly for this one. Instead, it was quietly swept under the rug and everyone at NASA hoped nobody outside Johnson noticed. These thieves should spend the rest of their adult lives working in fast food drive-through windows making minimum wage - to further educate them on the public dollar is a disgrace. To allow them high-paying jobs after this is also disgraceful - public dollar or not. Best regards, MikeG On 5/9/09, Mexicodoug wrote: > Hello Walter, List! > > This theft of Moon rocks story has seriously been the embarrassment of > the century for JSC. Thankfully time is passing and wounds are healing. > It was a very sad chapter for responsibility and ethics for the entire > academic community. > > Mike said: > "Tie up the thieves to poles out in the open (third world style) and > pelt them mercilessly with weathered-up UNWA from the Tucson bargain > bin. ;)" > > Mike, EDITORIAL > The comment "Third World Style" just hit a nerve. Did you know he > dreamed on going on ANSMET expeditions? > > Mr. Roberts nearly served out his entire term (served 7 and a half > years) without much judicial mercy, which was twice the guideline as > the judge was responding to political pressures in sentencing. When you > say, > > "The "ringleader" was sentenced to 8 years in prison - which here in > America means he probably served about 2-3 years and then walked. > non-violent crime, ivy league white defendant with previously clean > record, good behavior and early release" > > It's a bit inciting and unrelated to this case, even you are just > expressing general frustration with the United States judicial system > which many of us may and may not agree. I suspect the judge who > sentenced these aspiring scientists shared this line of thinking. Oh, > Roberts was definitely not Ivy League. He lifted himself up and then > crashed and burned all by his own bootstraps. > > The political nature of w > hat happened is the driver here. Far from the > research and material allegedly compromised (Is there any specific > place in the scientific literature where this was cited as compromising > results?), it was a shot into the heart of public faith of national > curation of taxpayer financed recovered material from the moon and > ANSMET in what NASA would like everyone to have believed was the Fort > Knox of science. Mr. Roberts was made a whipping boy to divert > attention from the whole fiasco as this sort of failure IMO should have > had much greater repercussions. Sure, some positive changes were made > as a result, but who can say with a straight face that "rogue interns" > are only to blame, and weave a Tom Clancy novel out the smokescreen. > The labeling of them as "Rogue Interns" at te time only gives me the > willies that taxpayers' were being mislead, a rogue asteroid, maybe, > but please ... these are three typical nerds gone completely > unsupervised in the heart of America's treasure chest. It strikes me as > odd that three interns with different backgrounds all passing the > incredibly competitive and difficult intern selection process would all > go for this, that would have left many of us in the dust > intellectually. We are talking three highly talented people here that > are all typical high achievers, great leaders, and hand picked by NASA > for that quality specifically - not brainwashed zombies... > > Consider the punishment for the two=2 > 0female accomplices. They received > no prison time (a special waiver from sentencing guidelines), and were > able to continue their education so they could make a positive > contribution to society. Now, if I am to understand the arguments of > the prosecution, Mr. Roberts was the "Mastermind" who was the brightest > of the bunch, and the other two were zombies that just had temporary > lapses of judgement. However, elsewhere Fowler is described as a woman > who challenged Cool Hand Thad to the point of earning his great respect > and becoming his dream girl. If I follow that so-called genius logic, > it was mastermind Roberts who could have made the most valuable > contributions to society, yet he was the only intern they nailed (and > Darren claims Bubba did too). Of course I don't follow that logic. I > just suspect "third-world" justice was imparted and it was an implicit > case of gender discrimination for a more noble cause of needing a > scapegoat, as the women no doubt were equally qualified in everything > and probably more meticulous instead of arrogant fools likeThad > Roberts. > > I suspect that the theft was not much more difficult to execute than a > bunch of high-schoolers stealing a road sign due to the lack of a few > minor but key appropriate controls. I mean, these guys stole a 600 > pound safe from JSC - and carted it out on a WalMart dolly which they > bought a few hours before, in all this said to be "premeditation for > 0Amonths". Many things just don't exactly add up on a critical reading. > > Mr. Robert's view is especially amusing in understanding his motives > here. He justified the whole thing by saying that these rocks would not > be missed because they were already contaminated as they were used > leftover returns of material that had been subjected to scientific test > and which was supposedly never to be used again - (apparently there is > some basis to this, though rife with misinterpretation). He argued that > the rocks were locked up never to see the light of day again and thus > he was doing a favor, this physics geek, by liberating them. Perhaps > his real motivation, was his own admission of being out of his league, > but hopelessly obsessed, in trying to impress to assist in getting > intimate with former Texas cheerleader, Ms. Fowler, the whole time pic: > http://www.baylor.edu/content/imglib/19876.jpg . So much that it had > destroyed his marriage with his wife Kaydee at the same time this whole > thing was planned (Kaydee herself a woman with a superb and strong > mind). So Roberts was clearly messed up as a boy in a broken marriage > trying to impress his new exciting woman he thought he couldn't have. > He went to the extreme to get her attention... > > Now, 8 years later the first thing he does when he is released, this > diabolical guy does - is go after her again to beg to resume an 8-year > old intimate relationship. Well, I'm sure jail war > ped his mind, but it > doesn't meet the smell test for "manipulative" and "mastermind" that he > was labeled with - more evidence of a nerd who just never understood > the real world; that this was third-world justice of the most arbitrary > kind, and this guy was just wetting his diapers like the rest of them > while dreaming he was Mr. Crown of the Thomas Crown Affair pursuing > Rene Z. > > This story is nothing new, just a variant of the 2004 article posted to > the list from the LA Times. Except, I hadn't notice the comment that > Mr. Roberts and Ms. Fowler laid out all the stolen rocks on a bed in a > hotel room and had intimate relations among the stolen moon rocks and > meteorites, shortly after their heist. Well, when comments like this > start getting cycled, you can bet that a potential movie deal is not > far off. That is the only all-American part I see in this whole scandal. > > One of the oddest things to me was the claim that there were 6 > notebooks containing a researcher's original notes packed in the safe > with the rocks. Apparently this claim was never proven despite the > FBI's forensic resources. Considering all of the interns turned against > each other looking for clemency, I find it surprising, that this was > categorically denied, if in fact, they had been there. What is even > more amusing is that a scientist would store his notebooks in the > relatively small safe with all of these specimens. Of course it > is > possible, but it just seems awfully strange that handwritten unbackedup > notes of 33 years of one leading researcher would be commingled with > Lunar material under any conditions, rather than store them with his > own things. In any case again, at first reading and makes you think > twice, considering this was the most experienced lab in the world... > > In the end, what happened with Fowler, who was an equal during the > theft? > > Ans: She is a graduate student now at Texas A&M College Station in > Wayne Versaw's group being financed by the US government under an NSF > grant. That's taxpayer supported. I am sure she is a bright woman, and > life hasn't been easy, so if you root for the underdog, I guess it is > almost admirable what she's managed to do... > > And What of Shae Saur, the younger woman who wanted a piece of the > action and acted as the lookout during the operation, and kept the > stolen goods in her storage locker while these dreamers went about > emailing the hot goods for sales? > > Ans: She became president of the Society of Women Engineers as she > worked on her engineering degree at the University of Texas in San > Antonio. I can't help think of the reforms she must have made to > deserve this, not to mention that here again is an example of a woman > that is a leader, not an automaton programmed by ol' Roberts, acting of > all things - as a role model to women engineers. > > And what of Axe > l? > > Ans: He was a list contributor a while back. But it seems he never > received a thank you token Moon Rock from NASA as others including > myself thought would be most appropriate. > > I?ll stop there, because the rest of the actors will most likely > receive a bit of unneeded notoriety when the movie comes out... > > Best wishes, > Doug > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Branch > To: Galactic Stone & Ironworks > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Sent: Sat, 9 May 2009 2:35 pm > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks > > > Hello Mike, > > You really should consider switching to decafe ;-) > > -Walter Branch > ----------------------------------------------------- > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" > > To: "Martin Altmann" > Cc: > Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 10:40 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks > > Hi Martin, > > I did finally click on some of the embedded links in the story and saw > the FBI followup article. The "ring leader" was sentenced to 8 years > in prison - which here in America means he probably served about 2-3 > years and then walked. (non-violent crime, ivy league white defendant > with previously clean record, good behavior and early rel > ease) > > IMO, that sentence should have been 10 years served to deter any > future idiocy of that nature. > > It made me sick to my stomach to imagine the loss of data and study > potential these specimens suffered at the hands of these criminals. > As a collector it rankles me, I cannot imagine how the scientists > studying the samples must have felt. Perhaps a more fitting sentence > for the thieves would be stoning by ordinary chondrites. Tie up the > thieves to poles out in the open (third world style) and pelt them > mercilessly with weathered-up UNWA from the Tucson bargain bin. ;) > > So, is there any list of missing lunar samples? How many pilfered > moon rocks are floating around the collector's market, or sitting in > someone's safe? > > Best regards, > > MikeG > > > On 5/9/09, Martin Altmann wrote: >> Yes, a safe was lifted there, >> as well as the part of the Good-Will Moon Rock, presented to Honduras > was >> stolen and was tried to be trafficked in USA. >> Currently the Apollo-sample of Malta is missing. >> >> Once I saw a strange documentation (was it on BBC or on discovery?), > where >> it was stated, that most of the Apollo-samples once distributed to > the >> nations of the World would have been lost and are missing. >> Is that true? >> (was a strange documentati > on, a man with a big belly and a full beard >> driving an old car was shown as to be the "special agent" of NASA, > > searching >> for the missing Moon rocks...). >> >> Let's open a new thread: Identify the Moon Rock given to your > country! >> >> I start. >> Germany should have 3 Moon Rocks. >> Two are given on permanent loan - one to the Technische Museum > Berlin, >> the other is housed in the exhibition of the Ries-Crater-Museum in >> Noerdlingen (the astronauts got their a geological training in the >> Ries-Crater by Eugene Shoemaker). >> The Good-Will-piece donated to the Federal Rep. of Germany (don't > know >> whether the former German Democratic Rep. got one too?), >> must be somewhere in the Deutsche Museum in Munich. >> Wasn't a longer time there, have to go there again, >> so I don't know, whether it's currently on display or somewhere in > the >> storage (museums in Germany are sometimes somewhat strange in > estimating, > if >> an item could be attractive for the visitors or not...). >> >> Best! >> Martin >> >> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: Galactic Stone & Ironworks [mailto:meteoritemike at gmail.com] >> Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Mai 2009 16:11 >> An: Martin Altmann >> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks >> >> I > s the story true? I read it and it sounds like pop-culture fiction. >> >> I've never heard anything about this elsewhere. >> >> If it's true, the thieves should be treated like Moon Rocks - >> sterilized and then locked up forever. >> >> >> On 5/9/09, Martin Altmann wrote: >>> Was that article an exercise in style? >>> >>> At least...due to the efforts of a few enthusiasts on the globe, >>> everyone can have now his piece of Moon Rock at a price of a > paperback >> :-) >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com >>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von > Pete >>> Pete >>> Gesendet: Samstag, 9. Mai 2009 12:58 >>> An: cynapse at charter.net; meteoritelist meteoritelist >>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thieves.....I hate them! >>> >>> ---------------------------------------- >>>> From: cynapse at charter.net >>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 23:30:00 -0500 >>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] How an Intern Stole NASA's Moon Rocks >>>> >>>> http://gizmodo.com/5242736/how-an-intern-stole-nasas-moon-rocks >>>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecen > tral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> >> -- >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > -- ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From gsac at gmx.net Sun May 10 10:19:31 2009 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 16:19:31 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for canyon diablo strewn field map In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090510141931.19780@gmx.net> Regarding Canyon Diablo aka Barringer crater, just take the A train...: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/books/barringer_crater_guidebook/ Best, Alex Berlin/Germany -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: 10 May 2009 11:24:53 UT > Von: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de > An: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: [meteorite-list] Looking for canyon diablo strewn field map > Hello again, > > "Does anyone out there know of a journal article where the 80 degree angle > is > discussed, with the rationale behind proposing this value for the > trajectory angle?" > > D.J. Roddy and E.M. Shoemaker (1995) Meteor Crater: Summary > of impact conditions (Meteoritics 30-5, 1995, A567, excerpts): > > "Since the late 1950s, studies of this crater have presented an > increasingly > clearer view of this impact and its effects and have provided an improved > view of impact cratering in general. To expand on this dataset, we are > preparing an upgraded summary on the Meteor Crater event ... including > inormation and interpretations on (1)...(2)...(3) estimated speed, > trajectory, > angle of impact, ... the trajectory of the impacting body is interpreted > by > EMS (= E.M. Shoemaker) as traveling north-northwest at a relatively > low impact angle..." > > I don't know whether E.M. Shoemaker still had time enough to publish > this "upgraded summary" before his tragic accident in Australia. > > > Best Sunday > wishes to all, > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun May 10 11:22:53 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 10:22:53 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Angrite or not? Message-ID: Hi List, I've seen this one on eBay for 3 consecutive weeks now. First, it was listed for hundreds of dollars BIN, but that original listing was apparently deleted or removed because it cannot be found in the completed listings search. Last week, the item was listed with a $150 BIN and a reserve - it received bids, but closed without the reserve being met or the BIN being used. Now, the same specimen is again listed, this time for a fraction of the original listing price and half of last week's BIN price. Current listing - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150344532805 Previous listing - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150343730391 Such a series of listings would raise some red flags under most circumstances - it means either the seller is desperate for money and wants to keep relisting it until someone bites, or the item itself is questionable. Another red flag - and maybe I am wrong on this one - but the photo doesn't *look* like angrite to me. I've owned a micromount of NWA 2999 previously and my piece had excellent provenance - it didn't look anything like this specimen on eBay. Secondly, it doesn't resemble any photos of angrite commonly seen. So, is this piece angrite or not? Does anyone know the seller? I have no idea who the seller is, and my apologies if the piece is legit. Just curious about what's going on here... MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl Sun May 10 11:34:29 2009 From: marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl (Marco Langbroek) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 17:34:29 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Daylight Fireball! Meteor Plane or Space, Debris? Message-ID: <4A06F405.7060408@wanadoo.nl> > Complete with photo and article of the sighting. > > http://fremantlebiz.livejournal.com/483475.html To me, that picture shows an high altitude aircraft contrail. See dozens of these here in the sky daily. - Marco ----- Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) e-mail: dms at marcolangbroek.nl http://www.dmsweb.org http://www.marcolangbroek.nl ----- From bristolia at yahoo.com Sun May 10 11:46:56 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 08:46:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Geological Blogs About coastal 'chevrons' and mega-tsunamis Message-ID: <665118.18369.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dera Friends, Below are various blogs by geologists about the ongoing discussion concerning coastal 'chevrons' and mega-tsunamis. More reasons to conclude that coastal 'chevrons' are not related mega-tsunamis, Hindered Settling, May 9, 2009 http://zsylvester.blogspot.com/2009/05/more-reasons-to-conclude-that-coastal.html Chevrons, olelog What on earth April 29, 2009, Ole Nielsen http://my.opera.com/nielsol/blog/2009/04/29/chevrons Older Posts Some questions about the 'megatsunami-chevrons, Hindered Settling. March 9, 2008 http://zsylvester.blogspot.com/2008/03/some-questions-about-megatsunami.html Some questions about the 'megatsunami chevrons': addendum, Hindered Settling, , May 10, 2008 http://zsylvester.blogspot.com/2008/05/some-questions-about-megatsunami.html Retreat of the Megatsunami?, Category: geohazards, Highly Allochthonous March 11, 2008, by Chris Rowan http://scienceblogs.com/highlyallochthonous/2008/03/retreat_of_the_megatsunami.php Return of the Megatsunami, Highly Allochthonous, March 8, 2008, by Chris Rowan http://scienceblogs.com/highlyallochthonous/2008/03/return_of_the_megatsunami.php A press release about what the discussion about is "Contrary to recent hypothesis, 'chevrons' are not evidence of megatsunamis, Geological Times. http://www.geologytimes.com/research/Contrary_to_recent_hypothesis_chevrons_are_not_evidence_of_megatsunamis.asp Best Regards, Paul H. From mexicodoug at aim.com Sun May 10 11:50:26 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 11:50:26 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Angrite or not? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CB9F9E2BAEB8E2-88C-1687@WEBMAIL-DC09.sysops.aol.com> Mike, Looking more angritish now? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120397007921 Best wishes, Doug -----Original Message----- From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks To: Meteorite List Sent: Sun, 10 May 2009 10:22 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Angrite or not? Hi List, I've seen this one on eBay for 3 consecutive weeks now. First, it was listed for hundreds of dollars BIN, but that original listing was apparently deleted or removed because it cannot be found in the completed listings search. Last week, the item was listed with a $150 BIN and a reserve - it received bids, but closed without the reserve being met or the BIN being used. Now, the same specimen is again listed, this time for a fraction of the original listing price and half of last week's BIN price. Current listing - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150344532805 Previous listing - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150343730391 Such a series of listings would raise some red flags under most circumstances - it means either the seller is desperate for money and wants to keep relisting it until someone bites, or the item itself is questionable. Another red flag - and maybe I am wrong on this one - but the photo doesn't *look* like angrite to me. I've owned a micromount of NWA 2999 previously and my piece had excellent provenance - it didn't look anything like this specimen on eBay. Secondly, it doesn't resemble any photos of angrite commonly seen. So, is this piece angrite or not? Does anyone know the seller? I have no idea who the seller is, and my apologies if the piece is legit. Just curious about what's going on here... MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bristolia at yahoo.com Sun May 10 11:54:30 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 08:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] USGS Open House in Menlo Park, May 16 and 17 Message-ID: <680171.51557.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> USGS Open House Offers Wealth of Activities Entertainment and education await visitors of all ages at the U.S. Geological Survey's (USGS) Menlo Park Science Center Open House on Saturday, May 16 and Sunday, May 17. The Open House will be from 10:00 a.m. until 4:00 p.m. both days, and admission is free of charge. http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=2215 Yours, Paul H. From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun May 10 12:29:42 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 11:29:42 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Angrite or not? In-Reply-To: <8CB9F9E2BAEB8E2-88C-1687@WEBMAIL-DC09.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CB9F9E2BAEB8E2-88C-1687@WEBMAIL-DC09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Doug, Norbert, and List, I am schooled again. Thanks for that link Doug. It does resemble the specimen in the auction link provided. I saw the Hupe card, but I also noticed that the specimen is not in the original Hupe gemjar or stapled ziploc bag. Typically (Adam and/or Greg can correct me here if I am wrong), the Hupe collection small micro specimens come in a 1" gemjar with a small circular, colored label on the lid. This gemjar is then placed in a small ziploc bag which is stapled to the specimen card. I own many micros like this and I have a habit of taking them out of the 1" Hupe-supplied gemjars and putting them into 1.25" gemjars which I have standardized into my collection. I keep the Hupe specimen cards in my file. So, if I were to resell a specimen such as the one on eBay I originally posted about, it might raise the same red flags in a potential buyer's mind - yes there is a Hupe card shown, but it's not in the original Hupe "packaging" so the card is less relevant and dependant on provenance and/or the reputation of the seller. I don't put a ton of stock into memberships or credentials, but I do feel more assured (as a buyer) if I see that the seller is a member of the Meteoritical Society or IMCA - or, if they are a familiar face on the market. So I was a little weary of this listing when I saw it and I wanted some input from the veterans of the list. It seems the specimen is likely genuine based on photo comparisons - it's larger and has more aesthetic features (a vein?) than my old NWA 2999 micro. In my mind, I had erroneously assumed that angrite had a texture more in line with friability and that it wouldn't resemble the specimen shown in the auction photos - or in most of the photos I had seen. Even though I'd like to acquire another angrite specimen for my cabinet (I currently don't have that type represented amongst my 43 types), I will pass on this one. I need to cool my spending jets anyway before the wife kills me. ;) Thanks for straightening me out (again) and best regards to the list, MikeG On 5/10/09, Mexicodoug wrote: > Mike, Looking more angritish now? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120397007921 > > Best wishes, > Doug > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks > To: Meteorite List > Sent: Sun, 10 May 2009 10:22 am > Subject: [meteorite-list] Angrite or not? > > > > Hi List, > > I've seen this one on eBay for 3 consecutive weeks now. First, it was > listed for hundreds of dollars BIN, but that original listing was > apparently deleted or removed because it cannot be found in the > completed listings search. Last week, the item was listed with a $150 > BIN and a reserve - it received bids, but closed without the reserve > being met or the BIN being used. Now, the same specimen is again > listed, this time for a fraction of the original listing price and > half of last week's BIN price. > > Current listing - > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150344532805 > > Previous listing - > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150343730391 > > Such a series of listings would raise some red flags under most > circumstances - it means either the seller is desperate for money and > wants to keep relisting it until someone bites, or the item itself is > questionable. > > Another red flag - and maybe I am wrong on this one - but the photo > doesn't *look* like angrite to me. I've owned a micromount of NWA > 2999 previously and my piece had excellent provenance - it didn't look > anything like this specimen on eBay. Secondly, it doesn't resemble > any photos of angrite commonly seen. So, is this piece angrite or > not? Does anyone know the seller? I have no idea who the seller > is, and my apologies if the piece is legit. > > Just curious about what's going on here... > > MikeG > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sun May 10 13:10:05 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 13:10:05 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 10, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_10_2009.html __________________________ Michael Johnson http://www.rocksfromspace.org http://www.sikhote-alin.org **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222376999x1201454299/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=M ay51009AvgfooterNO62) From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sun May 10 13:20:39 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 10:20:39 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Daylight Fireball! Meteor Plane or Space, Debris? In-Reply-To: <4A06F405.7060408@wanadoo.nl> References: <4A06F405.7060408@wanadoo.nl> Message-ID: <4A070CE7.4020204@meteoritesusa.com> Normally I would agree. However this one seemed to be a different color. The trail seemed darker, or dirtier than the usually pristine white of a high altitude jetliner. And in the original report stated a witness (the photographers daughter) stated she had seen what appeared to be pieces falling away from the object during flight. "...It was very bright and there were chunks breaking away..." Read Paul Weaver's Report Here On LiveJournal: http://fremantlebiz.livejournal.com/483475.html Also there wasn't the usual pin-prick of a point to the trails. You could argue this is because of the low resolution of the photo though. I was clear in my article on my site that this is as yet unidentified, though I do think the possibility of it being a fireball is there. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/blog/meteorite-articles/daylight-fireball-over-rottnest-island-australia-photo/ On the jetliner side of this, I do not see a ball of fire at the front most portion of the trail of "smoke". Only contrails. Do a search on contrails and thumb through the thousands of contrail images. Analysis of the images will quickly show that there's one thing in common. Most have 2 very clear trails immediately from the rear of the plane. There are a few where the contrails converge into one, but even those usually show a plan at the front. This "fireball" has two very faint trails but they converge very distinctly into one larger one. I don't know what this is... That's why I posted it. Regardless of what it is, it brings up an interesting conversation topic about fireballs. Specifically ones seen during the day. This might just be a daylight meteor fireball, and a large one at that... Regards, Eric Marco Langbroek wrote: > >> Complete with photo and article of the sighting. >> >> http://fremantlebiz.livejournal.com/483475.html > > > To me, that picture shows an high altitude aircraft contrail. See > dozens of these here in the sky daily. > > - Marco > > ----- > Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek > Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) > > e-mail: dms at marcolangbroek.nl > http://www.dmsweb.org > http://www.marcolangbroek.nl > ----- > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From GeoZay at aol.com Sun May 10 13:31:04 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 13:31:04 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Daylight Fireball! Meteor Plane or Space, Debris? Message-ID: >>Normally I would agree. However this one seemed to be a different color. The trail seemed darker, or dirtier than the usually pristine white of a high altitude jetliner. And in the original report stated a witness (the photographers daughter) stated she had seen what appeared to be pieces falling away from the object during flight.<< No matter what the witnesses say, often it's not always totally accurate. You have to sift thru it some. The clincher for me is that the trail of a meteor will very rapidly snake all over the place caused by high altitude winds. No signs of that here at all. GeoZay **************The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222376999x1201454299/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=M ay51009AvgfooterNO62) From griff6495 at msn.com Sun May 10 15:21:01 2009 From: griff6495 at msn.com (Floyd "Griff" Griffith) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 13:21:01 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for canyon diablo strewn field map References: <20090510141931.19780@gmx.net> Message-ID: Very good info Alex, thank you. I am thinking that there must be a viable search area that is not a part of the Barringer land or the BLM land. I have scouted the area and talked to the sheriff in Flagstaff, AZ. The sheriff basically said that anyone hunting for meteorites in any areas around the above lands will be arrested. One will need written proof that they have permission from the land owner where they are hunting. I know this sounds rather wimpy but, as a member of the IMCA, I can't hunt the Diablo area illegally. So, I am attempting to find a legal way to hunt. There must be a way. Best to all and thanks for the help. Griff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Seidel" To: ; ; Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Looking for canyon diablo strewn field map > Regarding Canyon Diablo aka Barringer crater, just take the A train...: > http://www.lpi.usra.edu/publications/books/barringer_crater_guidebook/ > > Best, > Alex > Berlin/Germany > > > -------- Original-Nachricht -------- >> Datum: 10 May 2009 11:24:53 UT >> Von: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de >> An: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Looking for canyon diablo strewn field map > >> Hello again, >> >> "Does anyone out there know of a journal article where the 80 degree >> angle >> is >> discussed, with the rationale behind proposing this value for the >> trajectory angle?" >> >> D.J. Roddy and E.M. Shoemaker (1995) Meteor Crater: Summary >> of impact conditions (Meteoritics 30-5, 1995, A567, excerpts): >> >> "Since the late 1950s, studies of this crater have presented an >> increasingly >> clearer view of this impact and its effects and have provided an improved >> view of impact cratering in general. To expand on this dataset, we are >> preparing an upgraded summary on the Meteor Crater event ... including >> inormation and interpretations on (1)...(2)...(3) estimated speed, >> trajectory, >> angle of impact, ... the trajectory of the impacting body is interpreted >> by >> EMS (= E.M. Shoemaker) as traveling north-northwest at a relatively >> low impact angle..." >> >> I don't know whether E.M. Shoemaker still had time enough to publish >> this "upgraded summary" before his tragic accident in Australia. >> >> >> Best Sunday >> wishes to all, >> >> Bernd >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov Sun May 10 15:21:17 2009 From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 12:21:17 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA scientist begins search for Merced, California meteorite In-Reply-To: <255286.97077.qm@web53204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Try again; this time without html... To all the folks who've already been looking for this potential fall, sorry about the "begins the search" thing. I'm certain that I mentioned to the journo that others had been looking for it, but that part didn't make it into print. Cheers, MDF >> >> On 5/8/09 4:29 AM, "drtanuki" wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Dear List, >>> Another meteorite search has begun. Marc Fries, a list member, is in the >>> news: >>> >>> http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo >>> > From tett at rogers.com Sun May 10 18:27:26 2009 From: tett at rogers.com (tett) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 18:27:26 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Buzzard Coulee Coordinates and pieces for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A0754CE.6000207@rogers.com> Bernd, I made a mistake with the W coordinate. All the W50's should read W53. The GPS had small low res numbers but I was able to confirm correct numbers from pictures I took. Thanks for pointing this out. Cheers! Mike bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote: > Hello Mike T. and List, > > The Met.Bull. gives these coordinates: 52? 59.76 ' N, 109? 50.89' W > > The 11.5-gram specimen you are offering for sale nicely fits the above coordinates > but the 6.8-gram and 23.5-gram individuals have a northern latitude of about 50? N. > > Does this imply the strewn field is a very elongated N-S fall ellipse and, furthermore, > does this hint toward a relatively shallow entry angle of the meteoroid? > > What do you and other list members think? Any pertinent input appreciated! > > Thank you, > > Bernd > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sun May 10 18:53:07 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 17:53:07 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Geological Blogs About coastal 'chevrons' andmega-tsunamis References: <665118.18369.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56F1D608027E45A5B8A28975AA188B9F@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, Chevron-ists Pro and Con, Lumping all these comments together, I notice a few disconcerting things. Most just mention "impacts" as the name of an opposing theory, but a few discuss "impacts," and their remarks are revealing. One reasons that there were a finite number of asteroids to begin with, that they been being "used up" for billions of years, and that there can't be enough of them left to account for all these "impacts." Do we really need to dignify that with a reply? Another suggests that the number of asteroids observed near the Earth are far too few to account for all the recent impacts, therefore most recent "impacts" are mis-identified and never happened. And so on... This is what I call naive uninformed skepticism and is basically a pseudo-rationale for people who just don't like the idea of "impacts." Another mental limitation is expressed in the doubt of several that tsunamis are capable of getting very high, say, over 100 meters. Theirs is not a qualitative calculated doubt, just a prejudice against any events ever being very extreme. Good Old Time Geological Religion -- Anti-Catastrophism. Apparently, they are unfamiliar with the fact the maximum OBSERVED tsunami wave height is 1722 feet (525 meters). There is no physical limit to the height of a tsunami and no theoretical reason why you couldn't generate one 3000 or 4000 meters high. (Can I borrow that asteroid for a minute?) I complained about the lack of spadework, and now I learn from one blog that Bourgeois never visited ANY chevrons except by means of Google Earth. Tourist Science. Dallas Abbott, the originator of the mega-tsunami theory addresses the "wind-blown" theory in some detail (at least for the Madagascan chevrons) here: http://www.gsajournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-static&name=i1052-5173-18-6-e12&ct=1 You could wait for the next big ocean impact, or (to repeat my earlier point): fieldwork, fieldwork, fieldwork!... Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul" To: Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:46 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Geological Blogs About coastal 'chevrons' andmega-tsunamis > > Dera Friends, > > Below are various blogs by geologists about the ongoing > discussion concerning coastal 'chevrons' and mega-tsunamis. > > More reasons to conclude that coastal 'chevrons' are not related > mega-tsunamis, Hindered Settling, May 9, 2009 > > http://zsylvester.blogspot.com/2009/05/more-reasons-to-conclude-that-coastal.html > > Chevrons, olelog What on earth April 29, 2009, Ole Nielsen > > http://my.opera.com/nielsol/blog/2009/04/29/chevrons > > Older Posts > > Some questions about the 'megatsunami-chevrons, Hindered > Settling. March 9, 2008 > > http://zsylvester.blogspot.com/2008/03/some-questions-about-megatsunami.html > > Some questions about the 'megatsunami chevrons': addendum, > Hindered Settling, , May 10, 2008 > > http://zsylvester.blogspot.com/2008/05/some-questions-about-megatsunami.html > > Retreat of the Megatsunami?, Category: geohazards, Highly > Allochthonous March 11, 2008, by Chris Rowan > > http://scienceblogs.com/highlyallochthonous/2008/03/retreat_of_the_megatsunami.php > > Return of the Megatsunami, Highly Allochthonous, March 8, > 2008, by Chris Rowan > > http://scienceblogs.com/highlyallochthonous/2008/03/return_of_the_megatsunami.php > > A press release about what the discussion about is > "Contrary to recent hypothesis, 'chevrons' are not > evidence of megatsunamis, Geological Times. > > http://www.geologytimes.com/research/Contrary_to_recent_hypothesis_chevrons_are_not_evidence_of_megatsunamis.asp > > Best Regards, > > Paul H. > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From majesticmeteorites at gmail.com Sun May 10 19:23:40 2009 From: majesticmeteorites at gmail.com (Whitney Riner) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 19:23:40 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Chat Message-ID: Greetings List, If anyone is interested in chatting during or after tonight's show (or any other time)--I set up a freebie site a while back at an easy-to-remember URL: www.meteoritechat.com Hope you enjoy, Whitney From bristolia at yahoo.com Sun May 10 20:45:46 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 17:45:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Catastrophe and history - Comparing Mars to Earth Message-ID: <846256.99873.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Comparing Mars to Earth: Catastrophe and history. Geological Society of America Special Paper 453. http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-05/gsoa-cmt050109.php TOC at: http://rock.geosociety.org/Bookstore/toc/spe453.htm Comparing Mars to Earth: Catastrophe and history (5/5/2009) ?This GSA Special Paper focuses on the catastrophic events that have influenced both Mars and Earth and is part of the ongoing search for the correct balance between catastrophic and processes. The book aims to "expand the geoscience horizons" of a wide range of readers by examining evidence for various geologic catastrophes on both Earth and Mars, their preservation on Earth as compared to Mars, and how these events may have influenced Earth's evolution. http://www.geologytimes.com/research/Comparing_Mars_to_Earth_Catastrophe_and_history.asp Yours, Paul H. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sun May 10 21:18:10 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 18:18:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Satellite Debris Message-ID: <200905110118.SAA00903@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Space Weather News for May 10, 2009 http://spaceweather.com SATELLITE DEBRIS: On Feb. 10, 2009, Iridium 33 crashed into Cosmos 2251 and the two satellites were shattered. Since then, US Strategic Command has catalogued nearly a thousand pieces of debris. Today's edition of http://spaceweather.com presents 3D maps showing where the fragments are located on the three-month anniversary of the unprecedented collision. One large piece of Iridium 33 wreckage is visible to the naked eye as it tumbles through the night sky flashing every 4.7 seconds. Check the Simple Satellite Tracker for flyby times: http://spaceweather.com/flybys From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sun May 10 21:29:15 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 18:29:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Rover Stuck in Loose Soil Message-ID: <200905110129.SAA03729@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_12329089 Mars rover stuck in loose soil By Alfred Lee Pasadena Star News May 8, 2009 LA CANADA FLINTRIDGE - After five years of scurrying around hostile terrain and toughing out six-month Martian winters, the Mars Rover Spirit faces a new problem familiar to Earthlings: It's stuck in loose soil. Spirit ran aground of some "fluffy" material on May 1, Jet Propulsion Laboratory officials said Friday. To make matters worse, a small mound of rocks underneath threatens to throw the intrepid robot off balance. "This is a really big concern. We've never been in a situation like this when we've been at risk of high centering the rover," project manager John Callas said. "There is a real danger of it getting permanently stuck." Since getting stuck, Spirit has only managed to move "tens of centimeters," Callas said. Its wheels are now buried up to the hubcaps. Things have gotten so hairy that on Thursday, mission planners decided to stop trying to move Spirit altogether. "We're going to use the rover's instruments to try to characterize the soil to get a better understanding of what it is," Callas said. "Simultaneously on the ground, we're going to try to simulate some of those materials in a kind of Martian sandbox where we have a full scale engineering rover." Mission planners will test out possible movements in the JPL "sandbox," which is about 30 feet by 30 feet, Callas said. JPL scientists are "probably weeks away" from attempting to move the rover again. Spirit's counterpart, Opportunity, is generally doing better, save for a problem with one of its wheels, Callas said. "The concern for Opportunity on the other side of the planet is the right front wheel, which has shown problems of drawing more current than the other wheels," he said. Engineers have responded to what they believe is a lubrication problem by periodically resting the rover. In 2005, Opportunity inadvertently dug itself into a sand dune and was stuck there for more than a month before being maneuvered out. Both rovers have remained operating much longer than anticipated. The rovers landed in Mars in January 2004, and were only expected to last 90 days. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sun May 10 21:32:28 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 18:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Exploration Rovers Update: April 30 - May 6, 2009 Message-ID: <200905110132.SAA04739@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status.html SPIRIT UPDATE: Another Power Boost, But Difficult Driving - sols 1893-1899, April 30 - May 6, 2009: Spirit has now completed 19 sols of operation without any recurrence of the anomalous behavior that happened between Sol 1872 (April 9, 2009) and Sol 1881 (April 18, 2009). In addition to changes made to the rover's wake-sleep cycle and internal data logging, a new ability to detect "amnesia" events has been implemented. There is still no explanation for the previous anomalies, and the investigation is continuing. Spirit is currently challenged by some very difficult terrain on the west side of Home Plate. The rover encountered very loose, soft material while driving south on its current path. So Spirit is now in the process of backing out. However, with only five driving wheels, its progress has been very difficult. Only centimeters have been achieved over the last four drive sols. It is expected that extracting Spirit from this location will require many more drive sols. The good news is that Spirit experienced another solar array dust cleaning event. On Sol 1899 (May 6, 2009), energy production improved by more than 25 percent. As of Sol 1899 (May 6, 2009), Spirit's solar array energy production is about 500 watt-hours, equivalent to what is needed to light a 100-watt bulb for five hours. Atmospheric opacity (tau) is at 0.821. The dust factor has improved substantially to 0.515, meaning that about 51.5 percent of sunlight hitting the solar array penetrates the layer of dust on the array. Spirit has more solar array energy than Opportunity for the first time in a very long time. Spirit's total odometry is 7,729.93 meters (4.80 miles). ------------------------------------------------------------------------ OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Study an Outcrop While Resting a Wheel - sols 1872-1878, April 30 - May 6, 2009: After moving around a troublesome ripple, on Sol 1872 (April 30, 2009) Opportunity performed a dog-leg maneuver heading south and achieving about 42 meters (138 feet) of distance. Electrical current levels in the right-front wheel have resumed larger-than-normal levels. The next drive, on Sol 1873 (May 1, 2009), was backward for about 50 meters (164 feet). The wheel currents remained elevated. The project decided to take advantage of a contact-instruments science campaign to rest the actuator again. So on Sol 1877 (May 5, 2009), a short bump was performed to position the rover on exposed rock outcrop for the contact science. That work will proceed over the next several sols while the right front wheel actuator rests. As of Sol 1877 (May 5, 2009), Opportunity's solar array energy production is 491 watt-hours, the atmospheric opacity (tau) remains around 0.811 and the dust factor is 0.609. Opportunity's total odometry as of Sol 1878 (May 6, 2009) is 15,902.37 meters (9.88 miles). From mpg4444 at gmail.com Sun May 10 21:36:16 2009 From: mpg4444 at gmail.com (Michael Groetz) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 21:36:16 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Man Unearths Meteorite in SW Kansas Message-ID: Man Unearths Meteorite in SW Kansas http://www.kwch.com/Global/story.asp?S=10336504 Posted: May 10, 2009 06:19 PM EDT Updated: May 10, 2009 06:52 PM EDT By Alana Rocha (KIOWA COUNTY, Kan.) They come from outer space and are embedded in fields across Kansas. Countless meteorites, of all shapes and sizes are uncovered every year here. Eyewitness News traveled to the southwest part of the state to witness the latest discovery and learn what it says about the area. To most of us, it's a field with a rock sitting in a hole in the middle of it. To Don Stimpson, "This is just a tremendously unique area in the whole world." As curator of the Kansas Meteorite Museum in Haviland, Stimpson has no problem explaining why. "We just have the streamfield of this meteorite, of this type of meteorite in the whole world," he said. Sunday just east of Greensburg, he was ready to unearth his latest find - a rather odd-shaped piece Stimpson believes is a major chunk of the Brenham Meteorites. Brenham Meteorite History It took Stimpson and some friends less than an hour to harness it in, test the hold and hoist it out of the ground. It's estimated the meteorite has sat in the ground 20,000 years. And this day is the result of about two weeks of digging and a couple of months waiting on good Kansas weather to lift it out. Stimpson says, "Maybe not everybody is a rock hound, but certainly within that community you can't help but be fascinated by coming out and picking up a piece of rock that came from space." With the meteorite in place, the Stimpsons make their way into town to see how much it weighs. "Looks like 1,220 pounds," Stimpson calculates. He says of his find, "That's another one of the main masses from this field. We've found several of them now. It's filling in the science of how this thing came in and broke up there." With a metal detector in hand, Stimpson vows to continue scouring the fields in his area to help fill in the gaps. Stimpson will now spend some time cleaning the meteorite before displaying it in his museum near Haviland. From dave at fallingrocks.com Sun May 10 22:00:49 2009 From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 22:00:49 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" Extended Trailer / Teaser Now onYouTube In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One word, Geoff: fantastic! Dave www.fallingrocks.com -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Notkin Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 3:10 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" Extended Trailer / Teaser Now onYouTube Dear Listees: Greetings comrades. Our production company has uploaded an extended promo for "Meteorite Men" to YouTube. This is actually the opening sequence of the show. We hope you enjoy it, and US subscribers please tune in tomorrow, Sunday, at 9pm on Science Channel and Science Channel HD if you can. Please note that in some markets there is an earlier broadcast at 6 pm Pacific. For the rest of you, around the world, we do hope for news about an international release and/or DVD release and will let you know, when we know : ) This should give you a good idea of the flavor of the show: Extended trailer / teaser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pA-tYNwh1o Thanks to everyone who has given us feedback and encouragement along the way. Steve and I have been wrapped up in this project for seventeen months, and the generous support of our friends and colleagues means a whole lot to us. With best wishes to all, Geoff N. Tucson, AZ www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From webbth1 at yahoo.com Sun May 10 22:13:11 2009 From: webbth1 at yahoo.com (Thomas Webb) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 19:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Program Message-ID: <703608.75956.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Geoff and Steve, That was a fun and informative program! I believe the public will certainly demand more and I look forward to this becoming a series. Congratulations on a job well done! My best, Thomas From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Sun May 10 23:20:01 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 20:20:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Man Unearths Meteorite in SW Kansas Message-ID: <406350.36472.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It looks like this strewn-field is still being milked for more press. If I read the poorly written article properly, Stimpson now claims to have the main masses? I thought he made this claim before stating a bunch of fragments from the same hole added up to several tons. Does he live on the Kimberly farm that Nininger wrote about? Something about a buffalo wallow being the main impact crater? Anyway, it seems that he continues to keep the press active forgetting about Nininger and Haag who came before him. Best Regards, Adam From parkforestmet at hotmail.com Mon May 11 00:25:27 2009 From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 23:25:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Park Forest Garza Stone 178 grams. In-Reply-To: <561586BC17AA422A80E899174BE5AE94@laptop> References: <561586BC17AA422A80E899174BE5AE94@laptop> Message-ID: "It was taken to an entomologist which confirmed that by a flexibility test of the wings it was highly possible that the time of death was caused by the impact." Tell us more about these flexibility tests. When any fresh witnessed fall is found in situ, a bag of the soil from the impact area is always collected, isn't it? There should already be a fine record of worms, weevils, aphids and all sorts of microbes on record as having been dashed by meteorites. Just imagine the devastation caused by a 200 gram meteorite destroying a square foot of micro environment. Oh the horror. I guess a termite is a real lunker. ---------------------------------------- > From: meteorites at online.nl > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 15:14:48 +0200 > Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Park Forest Garza Stone 178 grams. > > Listioids, > > Before it goes to Ebay: > > The Park Forest fragment we offer is a 178,2 gram crusted fragment. This is > the piece seen many times on the news, together with the 2,2 kg. main mass > when a park Forest police officer is showing how the 178 grams piece fits > perfectly on the main mass. Collectors who own the Park Forest dvd sure will > recognize the fragment seen many times there. > > > > Another thing which makes this fragment extra special is that when it broke > off from the main mass during impact, it smashed through the window and > landed outside on the patio. This means this is the only meteorite in > existence which landed in a house and went back outside again!!! > > > > Another rarest items including this Museum display set is an insect, a > termite which was found along the debris on the floor of the bedroom. It > seems that during impact it was hidden in the ceiling together with a few > others. It was taken to an entomologist which confirmed that by a > flexibility test of the wings it was highly possible that the time of death > was caused by the impact. This means this may be the only animal in > existence which remained for display. Another animal, a cow which was hit by > the Valera meteorite has gone forever. The Termite was obtained from the > Hupes, all other meteorite items from this event were obtained from Fernlea > meteorites. > > > > The following items include this rarest historical museum display set: > > The Park Forest meteorite "Garza" fragment of 178,2 grams. It has a > beautiful crust, brown stains from hitting the wooden joist and white spots > from the plaster ceiling. > > > > Large fragment of the wooden joist (as seen on the pictures here) It clearly > shows the point of impact of the meteorite. > > > > 3 large pieces of ceiling plaster fragments. > > > > The termite, nicely protected in a membrane box. > > > > Pieces of the Venetian blinds that were at the window and got damaged by the > meteorite. > > > > Pieces of glass from the bedroom window where the meteorite fell through. > > > > A hand signed letter of authenticity from Mr. Garza, provided by Rob Elliot > from Fernlea meteorites. > > > > It is no doubt this highly collectible set should belong to a museum > collection!! > > > > Please do not email for separate sales of the items. The set will stay > complete at all times. > > > > Shipping options will be discussed after the sale is complete and the > shipping cost will be added to the final amount. > > > > > > Shipping only to the U.S, Europe and Australia. > > > > Offers starting at $11.000 are welcome. This means it's priced for a little > over $60.00 per gram including all impact items. > > > > Pictures on request, off list please. > > > > NO TRADES. > > Paypal only. > > > > Best, > > Jan. > > IMCA 9833 > > Holland > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Mon May 11 01:04:00 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 22:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Man Unearths Meteorite in SW Kansas Message-ID: <648034.9235.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I apologize to Mr. Simpson. I was informed that he really does care about the science and is not chasing press for self-promotional purposes. I guess my beef is with the article as it contained several errors and should have been proofed a little better. There was a link providing the history of the find and acknowledging Nininger's contributions. I did not see it in the posting but it appeared when I linked to the article. I should have given Mr. Simpson the benefit of the doubt but listened to many previous negative posts here on the List. I am still of a treasure hunter's mind when it comes to talking to the press. They always seem to focus on the money and rarely report things correctly. I am sensitive about press because it nearly wiped an avocation I have enjoyed since 1975. Just ask any amateur or professional treasure hunter and they will tell you the same thing. Best Regards, Adam From jbaxter112 at pol.net Mon May 11 01:31:24 2009 From: jbaxter112 at pol.net (James Baxter) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 01:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] RE Insights - TAMEDAGHT PHENOMENA - cross section through samples! In-Reply-To: <892010632.1441201242019729207.JavaMail.root@zmcs01l-pol-08.portal.webmd.com> Message-ID: <1291432611.1441381242019884249.JavaMail.root@zmcs01l-pol-08.portal.webmd.com> That was my thought as well, Steve. You may recall I posted some pictures to the list some time ago of a similar phenomenon where fragments got incorporated into the thickened crust on the backside of one of Marcin's oriented NWA meteorites. Here's one of the pictures of the specimen I have: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/CaneySprings/NWA2826LL528gmMarcinCimalacloseup.jpg It's pretty easy to imagine a good sized chunk of this breaking loose in flight. Best Wishes, Jim Baxter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Schoner" To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2009 8:57:10 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [meteorite-list] RE Insights - TAMEDAGHT PHENOMENA - cross section through samples! I have in my collection several odd very thick vesicular fusion crusts, about 3 mm thick and about a cm wide that were found in the Norton Co. strewnfield. These are certainly fusion crust from the backside of the main mass, or other oriented Norton individuals. These crusts are black with chunks of un-fused Norton meteorite embedded within. Looks like this material is very similar in formation as to what was found with the Norton meteorite. Steve Schoner IMCA 4470 Message: 1 Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 21:26:57 +0200 From: "Martin Altmann" Subject: [meteorite-list] Insights - TAMEDAGHT PHENOMENA - cross section through samples! To: Message-ID: <003101c9cdb7$74d40110$177f2a59 at name86d88d87e2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Good Evening List, Stefan's enquiring mind urged him (of course) to cut the samples of that ominous Tamdaght products - with an amazing results. And we want to share his observations here: http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tam1.jpg http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/vip/tam2.jpg It turned out, that all fragments incorporated into that material are really meteoritic fragments! Even the large round fusion-crust-balls or bubbles emerging from the surface had a small fragment left inside. The fragments themselves are modified, the smaller ones seemed to be changed by heat more than the larger ones - but in all the original H5-matrix is still cognizable. No terrestrial stones or fragments he could find. Strange is, that the some of the assembled fragments show a thicker own fusion crust, some a thinner, some no crust at all. The dark "glue" between the fragments revealed under the microscope to be a weird mixture of a black melt (perhaps fusion crust too?), tiny glassy pearls and metal grains, the latter of a sometimes quite large size (possibly troilite). I decided, to name that material from now on to honour the observer: "Ralewite" :-) In the German meteorite forum, we're speculating about the formation of that strange conglomerate. Were from a flying meteorid in stable flight, developing a special fat crust, fragments merging from the apex to the backside, where they assembled? Was a stone with still soft fusion crust crossing a debris cloud of a fragmentation of another stone close in front of it and larded with splinters? Any other ideas? Ahem, of course we were already asked, whether we would sell some of the cuts. Well, perhaps 4 halves or so we can offer. Difficult to set a price, cause it's such an unique phaenomenon. So I'd like to orientate the price, on the result the specimen of glass melt without meteorite fragments, where in this discussion was reffered to, yielded on ebay. Guess that's o.k. cause these are cut and contain meteorite fragments, nobody will say anything against: 60$/g Best! Martin & Stefan Chladni's Heirs Munich - Berlin Fine Meteorites for Science & Collectors http://www.chladnis-heirs.com/ ____________________________________________________________ Free information on accounting careers. Click Now! http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdegd1y1WDFw9w4EI6KaKWDBLW6nPQuMsSJWK0vTVXMpwSomnm8KLO/ ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au Mon May 11 04:20:33 2009 From: qwalkra at mailbox.ezadsl.net.au (Bob WALKER) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 18:20:33 +1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] QMIG update Message-ID: <0162E9BE07F24255B13E2A8F9B2EF616@your0a700f0aaf> Listoids QMIG update http://www.qmig.org More Weona specimens to hand (no pix) - perhaps more later this week ! News webpage has linx to pix of the hundred odd Tenham individuals purchased by Queensland Geological Survey in 1939 for a few measly quid... these now reside at the Queensland Museum and i have 2 slices from # 28 (you can see the accession number on my slice !!!) Another new Queensland iron lurking in Central Queensland - watch this space for more news of my kidnapping this !!! And more clues on the whereabouts of Answer and King Solomon... this may be a wild goose chase but if you never never try you never never know And a special mention for Tom and Jeff Cheers From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon May 11 06:54:33 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 03:54:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Angrite or not? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <220280.9191.qm@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Well only the Hupes can confirm provinence and I recognize the seller as a meteorite seller but no idea whom now might be buying meteorites on eBay and turning right around and selling them on eBay. One thing probable the write-up was lifted from past Hupe auctions. Elton From meteoritemike at gmail.com Mon May 11 08:29:54 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 07:29:54 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Man Unearths Meteorite in SW Kansas In-Reply-To: <406350.36472.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <406350.36472.qm@web30701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: How is this bad press for meteorites? On 5/10/09, Adam Hupe wrote: > > It looks like this strewn-field is still being milked for more press. If I > read the poorly written article properly, Stimpson now claims to have the > main masses? I thought he made this claim before stating a bunch of > fragments from the same hole added up to several tons. Does he live on the > Kimberly farm that Nininger wrote about? Something about a buffalo wallow > being the main impact crater? Anyway, it seems that he continues to keep > the press active forgetting about Nininger and Haag who came before him. > > Best Regards, > > Adam > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From meteoritemike at gmail.com Mon May 11 09:13:10 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 08:13:10 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Bolide Bus is dead Message-ID: After spending over $4000 in the last 2 weeks on the "Bolide Bus", we are cutting our losses and selling the vehicle. We were duped - the vehicle is a lemon and a money pit. It has defeated me, my wife and the mechanics. I will take the first $1000 offer for it - the 6 new all terrain tires on it are worth more than that. There will be no more updates or postings about the Bolide Bus - it's dead in the water. If anyone wants to frustrate themselves and buy this old piece of junk - contact me offlist. -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From brandes at gmx.at Mon May 11 10:03:15 2009 From: brandes at gmx.at (Stefan Brandes) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 16:03:15 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Forty Thousand Meteor Origins Across the Sky References: Message-ID: <000a01c9d241$3b0832b0$f49a2fd5@HP17984996113> http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ whooosh.... Stefan From info at mineralesyfosiles.com.ar Mon May 11 09:52:06 2009 From: info at mineralesyfosiles.com.ar (Eduardo) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 10:52:06 -0300 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad. 80+ Great Auctions ending in 1 day In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi I have a over 80 auctions ending in less than a day. Most of them with $0.99 base and no reserve (and many still at that price!). some Highlights: MIGHEI: OVER 1 GRAM of this historic fall, that gives the M to the CM group. Started at $1 with no reserve, right now is only $26 http://cgi.ebay.com/MIGHEI-CM2-Meteorite-fragment-Historic-fall-RARE-0318_W0QQitemZ280342191864 One of the Largest Mercedes fragments available: http://cgi.ebay.com/Mercedes-Meteorite-145-gr-Great-Individual-RARE-0309_W0QQitemZ280342182301 Two ORIENTED CAMEL DONGA. Your choice of 3.38g or 7.15g http://cgi.ebay.com/CAMEL-DONGA-EUC-Meteorite-3-38-Oriented-individual-321_W0QQitemZ280342194211 http://cgi.ebay.com/CAMEL-DONGA-EUC-Meteorite-7-15-Oriented-individual-320_W0QQitemZ280342193391 An amazing ORIENTED 440gr SIKHOTE ALIN http://cgi.ebay.com/SIKHOTE-ALIN-METEORITE-440gr-Oriented-individual-0328_W0QQitemZ280342200881 A pristine non classified 381g NWA with a fusion crust that easily resemble the one of a recent fall. Must see this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/NWA-Meteorite-381gr-Amazing-Individual-0375_W0QQitemZ280342259207 Also some items I got in a collection I recently bought. Only one specimen is available of them so this will be the only chance: Kilabo 5.87 gr. Dolores IIIAB 42 gr Pampa A L6 36 gr. Mbale 30.7gr. and the usual mix of Allende, Sahara, Henbury, Murchison, Esquel, Viedma, Gao, Covert, Norton County, etc. You can check them all here: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/smfmeteorites thanks Eduardo www.smfmeteorites.com From wahlperry at aol.com Mon May 11 12:07:15 2009 From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 12:07:15 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men program Message-ID: <8CBA069AF9BE5FC-167C-4AB@WEBMAIL-DY35.sysops.aol.com> Hi List, I wanted to congratulate Geoff and Steve on the premiere of their show on the Science channel. It was a great episode. I hope to see more. Keep up the good work guys! Sonny From tricottetcoll at live.com Mon May 11 12:09:27 2009 From: tricottetcoll at live.com (The Tricottet Collection) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 16:09:27 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Several full slices from historic falls Message-ID: Dear list members, after the AD of last week on complete stones, here is a second AD on full slices (except the ones with * which are part slices). Allende, 20.2g - $162 ($8/g) Arroyo Malo, 7.3g - $292 ($40/g) Campos Sales, 14.1g - $141 ($10/g) El Hammami*, 215g - $322 ($1.5/g) Gao, 27.2g (with vintage label of unk. coll.) - $68 ($2.5/g) Lost City*, 0.42g - REDUCED to $84 ($200/g) Millbillillie, 12g - $132 ($11/g) Monze, 47.2g - $236 ($5/g) Odessa*, 373g (with Huss number and AML label) - REDUCED to $500 Park Forest, 27.1g - $813 ($30/g) Portales Valley, 80g - REDUCED to $1000 ($12.5/g) Potter*, 15g (with Nininger number and AML label) - $300 ($20/g) Thuathe, 19.4g - $116 ($6/g) Thuathe, 4.4g - $22 ($5/g) Zag, 2.3g - $12 ($5/g) Best regards, ArnaudM _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 From mfcollecter at yahoo.com Mon May 11 12:56:45 2009 From: mfcollecter at yahoo.com (Said Haddany) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 09:56:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] D:Tamdakht for sale at a good price Message-ID: <461735.31090.qm@web34308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi we have some Tamdakht meteorites for sale at a good price. pics on request ? Said Haddany From epgrondine at yahoo.com Mon May 11 15:02:22 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 12:02:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite men Message-ID: <236553.33616.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all - Favorites anyone? Brunette or pallasite? Nice haircuts as well, guys. It will be interesting to watch what effect this has on the public and markets - it can only be to the good. Congratulations. Good Hunting, Ed From mail at mhmeteorites.com Mon May 11 15:09:06 2009 From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (mail at mhmeteorites.com) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 19:09:06 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite men Message-ID: <823249935-1242068934-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1264082908-@bxe1300.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Yes great show guys, well done! Can't wait til the next installment. And brunettes are always a favorite :) Matt Morgan ------Original Message------ From: E.P. Grondine Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite men Sent: May 11, 2009 1:02 PM Hi all - Favorites anyone? Brunette or pallasite? Nice haircuts as well, guys. It will be interesting to watch what effect this has on the public and markets - it can only be to the good. Congratulations. Good Hunting, Ed ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon May 11 16:01:28 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 13:01:28 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Supergiant" Asteroid Impact Message-ID: <4A088418.6090901@meteoritesusa.com> Article about a supergiant asteroid shutting down Mars's magnetic field. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/05/090511-mars-asteroid.html This raises the question that seems to be getting bigger and bigger. What would such an impact do to Earth? Would we be wiped out by the impact, severe weather, nuclear winter, earthquakes, tsunamis or by the atmosphere withering away by the solar winds? Or would humans be able to survive underground in manufactured ecosystems capable of supporting life? What if a supergiant asteroid slammed our planet tomorrow? Who would be sequestered away deep in the safe rooms underground? The question is not whether we are prepared -as we are not- the question is simply when will we find a solution to this obvious hazard. We're finding more asteroids all the time. It's becoming more mainstream, and public awareness is growing. Eventually we will find one that is on a collision course with Earth. When taking into account the increased awareness, advances in technology, and population increasing over time, I would predict a major discovery in less than 5 years. Now, this is not to say that an asteroid will hit in 5 years, but at the rate of the increase of awareness the likelihood that an amateur astronomer or asteroid hunter will find something increases exponentially over time. Not to mention NASA's NEO Project and other governmental and educational asteroid hunting programs. We've all heard the phrase "It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when." when describing the likelihood of an asteroid impacting Earth. Well I would say you have to believe that this increase in knowledge and discovery is directly related to the increase in technological advancement coupled with a population increase. As we are able to see more we will learn more faster. -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon May 11 17:11:57 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 14:11:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Supergiant" Asteroid Impact In-Reply-To: <4A088418.6090901@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A088418.6090901@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <4A08949D.2040309@meteoritesusa.com> Increased discovery of NEOs (NEA) over time... http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/stats/ This poses yet another not so obvious question. Can Moore's law (or something similar) predict the rate of discovery based on the technological advancement of the human species as a whole? Don't forget to calculate population growth as well... World & USA Population clock: http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html We are advancing as a species faster than ever before in the history of human kind. 100 years ago it took months to travel across the world, and we did not have TV, cell phones,and of course the internet. Today we can travel to any place on the planet in less than 12 hours and access information with the click of a mouse. We can talk to another human on the opposite side of the world with little effort and see what's happening LIVE in every continent via satellite communication. As for exploration, before the next decade is out we might even put a human being on Mars, and who knows what other scientific discoveries will be made after that. We're living in a very exciting time. We're in the midst of a superfast evolutionary change as a species. Where are we going next? Maybe nowhere if an asteroid slams into us... Meteorites USA wrote: > > Article about a supergiant asteroid shutting down Mars's magnetic field. > > http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/05/090511-mars-asteroid.html > > This raises the question that seems to be getting bigger and bigger. > What would such an impact do to Earth? Would we be wiped out by the > impact, severe weather, nuclear winter, earthquakes, tsunamis or by > the atmosphere withering away by the solar winds? Or would humans be > able to survive underground in manufactured ecosystems capable of > supporting life? > > What if a supergiant asteroid slammed our planet tomorrow? Who would > be sequestered away deep in the safe rooms underground? > > The question is not whether we are prepared -as we are not- the > question is simply when will we find a solution to this obvious > hazard. We're finding more asteroids all the time. It's becoming more > mainstream, and public awareness is growing. Eventually we will find > one that is on a collision course with Earth. > > When taking into account the increased awareness, advances in > technology, and population increasing over time, I would predict a > major discovery in less than 5 years. Now, this is not to say that an > asteroid will hit in 5 years, but at the rate of the increase of > awareness the likelihood that an amateur astronomer or asteroid hunter > will find something increases exponentially over time. Not to mention > NASA's NEO Project and other governmental and educational asteroid > hunting programs. > > We've all heard the phrase "It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of > when." when describing the likelihood of an asteroid impacting Earth. > Well I would say you have to believe that this increase in knowledge > and discovery is directly related to the increase in technological > advancement coupled with a population increase. As we are able to see > more we will learn more faster. > From cynapse at charter.net Mon May 11 18:15:29 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 17:15:29 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Supergiant" Asteroid Impact In-Reply-To: <4A088418.6090901@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A088418.6090901@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:01:28 -0700, you wrote: >This raises the question that seems to be getting bigger and bigger. >What would such an impact do to Earth? An impact big enough to make a 2,000 mile crater? Think the oceans boiled away to their floors, everything bigger than a hydrothermal vent bacterium killed instantly, and maybe them, too. From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon May 11 18:49:28 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 15:49:28 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: BLOW OUT SALE Message-ID: <4A08AB78.5010105@meteoritesusa.com> Hi all, I'm blowing out these meteorites for some fast cash. Here's some great pieces with great aesthetics. Many thumbprinted and nicely crusted meteorites. Minimum order of $50 applies. http://www.meteoritesusa.com/nwa-meteorites.htm List of meteorites available: -------------------------------------- 42.1g Chondrite Meteorite END CUT: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-42-1g.jpg http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-42-1g-a.jpg 57.7g Chondrite Meteorite END CUT: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-57-7g.jpg http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-57-7g-a.jpg 41.3g Chondrite Meteorite END CUT "GNARLY W/LIGHT MATRIX": http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-41-3g.jpg http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-41-3g-a.jpg 116.8g Chondrite Meteorite END CUT "DENSE & SPARSE": http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-116-8g.jpg http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-116-8g-a.jpg http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-116-8g-c.jpg 803.1g Chondrite Meteorite: SALE PRICE: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/nwa-meteorites/unwa-803-1g.htm 642.9g Chondrite Meteorite: SALE PRICE: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/nwa-meteorites/unwa-642-9g.htm 571.6g Chondrite Meteorite: SALE PRICE: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-571-6g.jpg 35.5g Chondrite Meteorite: SALE PRICE: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-35-5g.jpg 1266.2g Chondrite Meteorite: $299 Shipped (.24/g) http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-1266-2g.jpg 306.5g Chondrite Meteorite: SALE PRICE: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-306-5g.jpg 394.2g Chondrite Meteorite: SALE PRICE: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-394-2g.jpg 161.3g Chondrite Meteorite: SALE PRICE: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/images/meteorites-for-sale/unwa-161-3g.jpg ----------------------------------------- TAMDAKHT: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/tamdakht-meteorite-for-sale.htm Call or Email To Order. 904-236-5394 ADVANCED NOTICE: I've got a big shipment coming in this week. If you want first dibs join my mailing list and I'll let you know as soon as they arrive: http://www.meteoritesusa.com/newsletter/ Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA 904-236-5394 From meteoritics at gmail.com Mon May 11 19:16:51 2009 From: meteoritics at gmail.com (Bill Hall) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 16:16:51 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorite-list] Meteorite Men program Message-ID: <883a36d30905111616o2e990981wcc3bd76ed60b5966@mail.gmail.com> Loved the show, now my mom knows why I spend so much money on space rocks. Wish I could hunt with you guys, I'm jealous! Bill Hall From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Mon May 11 19:59:33 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 16:59:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NICE LOOKING AUBRITE NOT ELHAGOUNIA Message-ID: <437274.75952.qm@web62006.mail.re1.yahoo.com> HI ALL, please enjoy this gem , a nice green crystal inside vein es, this is probably a new aubrite, found different place from elhagounia and has nothing to do it with the el3. http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/3523964284/sizes/l/ and for more photo http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/ thanks ?habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com Mon May 11 20:59:30 2009 From: tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com (Tom Randall (KB2SMS)) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 20:59:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" Extended Trailer / Teaser Now on YouTube" Message-ID: <6A349486-A72F-497A-9AF2-884451FFFC9B@hvc.rr.com> GREAT trailer! I don't get the Science channel though so I hope you DVD this for sale! Kudos to all involved! Tom --- "I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'" -- Bob Newhart http://home.roadrunner.com/~kb2sms/ From tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com Mon May 11 21:01:30 2009 From: tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com (Tom Randall (KB2SMS)) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 21:01:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Daylight Fireball! Meteor Plane or Space Debris? Message-ID: Plane contrails lit by the Sun. --- "I tell ya, it's lonely at the top when no one's on the bottom." - Rodney Dangerfield http://home.roadrunner.com/~kb2sms/ From gredfern at earthlink.net Sat May 2 11:27:55 2009 From: gredfern at earthlink.net (Greg Redfern) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 11:27:55 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Astrocast.tv Episode 14 Message-ID: All, Please enjoy what I think is our best episode yet. All the best, Greg Greg Redfern NASA JPL Solar System Ambassador http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html WHAT'S UP?: THE SPACE PLACE http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=600113&nid=421 ASTROCAST http://astrocast.tv/ From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Mon May 11 22:20:55 2009 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 19:20:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] test Message-ID: <162832.50522.qm@web32505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ?Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v From epgrondine at yahoo.com Mon May 11 23:49:13 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 20:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Catastrophe and history - Comparing Mars to Earth Message-ID: <739257.32833.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Paul, all - That should read Impact: Comparing Mars to Earth. The link has no table of contents, but the short article should show a 26 million year chaotic release of volatiles by comet impact from Mars crust, as demonstrated by strata. Clube and Napier rule; Morrison and Muller, uhhh... E.P Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From eric at meteoritesusa.com Tue May 12 01:47:02 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 22:47:02 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] 25 years ago in Memphis Message-ID: <4A090D56.9010307@meteoritesusa.com> 25 years ago: 1984 A fireball of a meteorite exploded over the Mid-South early yesterday, rattling windows and panicking some residents, said Ray Shubinski, director of the Pink Palace Planetarium. Museum officials, in conjunction with the Smithsonian Institution, are gathering information about the pre-dawn meteorite, Shubinski said, that could help locate pieces of it. Shubinski said the fireball was sighted across the Memphis area and as far away as Greenville, Miss. SOURCE: http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/may/12/mid-south-memories-crowned/ Is this the Maryville meteorite, or was this one never found? -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From lintonius at earthlink.net Tue May 12 01:51:39 2009 From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 22:51:39 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] 1954 Mrs Hodges Meteorite Legal Documents archive Message-ID: Ahoy there listees, I spend a lot of time on Astromart and just spotted an ad there for archival legal documents from the court case regarding ownership of the famous Sylacauga meteorite. This is from the collection of a former Griffith Observatory employee. I thought someone here might be interested, so I'll pass it along. (Now that's a hammer!) ;^) Linton http://www.astromart.com/classifieds/details.asp?classified_id=625344 "By far the most famous case of a person struck by a meteorite happened in Alabama in 1954 when Mrs. Ann Hodges was hit while napping on her sofa. She and her landlord ended up in court over ownership of the meteorite (which ended up at the University of Alabama). The story has been told many times, but here is a copy of much (most?) of the legal documents, including court papers, depositions, mineralogy reports, etc. Plus a stack of letters from the public to Mrs. Hodges including schoolchildren. Plus background magazine and newspaper articles from the time. Plus cartoons and odd miscellaneous items. Plus four 8x10 glossy prints of Mrs. Hodges and her meteorite made from original photos. I can provide a partial inventory, but the stack is 1 inch thick if you compress it and there's a lot of incredibly diverse, unusual, and rare material here. All are old photocopies (except the four prints). $250 ppd within USA. You won't see this one again." From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Tue May 12 04:40:30 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 01:40:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] 25 years ago in Memphis In-Reply-To: <4A090D56.9010307@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <839810.60333.qm@web55204.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Maryville, TN L6 fell on 28 Jan 83 That is the one that got me da fever Elton From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Tue May 12 11:01:42 2009 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 08:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] test delete Message-ID: <999245.28308.qm@web32502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> ?Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v From epgrondine at yahoo.com Tue May 12 11:50:32 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 08:50:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] LPBE shut down Mars magnetic field Message-ID: <204953.59630.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Eric, all - >Where are we going next? Not Mars, since its not Earth-like. It has no magnetic field. >Maybe nowhere if an asteroid slams into us... Based on historical observation, ain't no "maybe"s about it. But it isn't asteroids that are the threat now, its comets. good hunting, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From grf2 at verizon.net Tue May 12 12:11:06 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 12:11:06 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] vienna natural history museum Message-ID: http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/May09/Meteorites.Vienna.Museum.html Jerry Flaherty From eric at meteoritesusa.com Tue May 12 12:30:11 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 09:30:11 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] vienna natural history museum In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A09A413.1060506@meteoritesusa.com> Wow! Jerry Flaherty wrote: > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/May09/Meteorites.Vienna.Museum.html > > Jerry Flaherty > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Tue May 12 14:07:47 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 19:07:47 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] vienna natural history museum In-Reply-To: <4A09A413.1060506@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <20090512190747.ADO7V.169339.root@web04-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi Jerry/all, The Vienna collection is out of this world...went last year and just couldn't stop taking photographs..a visit not to be missed. Graham Ensor, UK ---- Meteorites USA wrote: > Wow! > > > > > Jerry Flaherty wrote: > > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/May09/Meteorites.Vienna.Museum.html > > > > Jerry Flaherty > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mexicodoug at aim.com Tue May 12 14:11:49 2009 From: mexicodoug at aim.com (mexicodoug at aim.com) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 14:11:49 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Anniversaries and birthdays Message-ID: <8CBA14440E6F176-1410-2AB3@FWM-M25.sysops.aol.com> Dear List, Happy anniversary to the Butsura meteorite (H6), whose anniversary of its fall from the heavens on May 12, 1861 is today. If today is your birthday whether you be in India, Mexico or Germany, ... happy birthday! Did anyone notice Svend's site has a writeup on this fall with the strewn field illustrated (sixth image down http://www.niger-meteorite-recon.de/en/meteoriten_vk_hist.htm ), by none other than the namesake of Maskelynite, Nevil Story Maskelyne? As a tidbit that Butsura links to this day ... Nevil Story was the grandson of the great English astronomer and aristocrat, the Longitude guru Nevil Maskelyne. That's the guy somewhat responsible for making Greenwich the origin of longitude, and a very decorated English gentleman indeed. (If you tire of politics and the way history gets officially recorded, truth or not, read the exciting but frustrating book, "Longitude: The True Story of a Lone Genius Who Solved the Greatest Scientific Problem of His Time." It is about John Harrison, who grandpa Maskelyne, enamored by measuring the moon, the astronomer he was, and not precision timepieces, reputedly pulled a fast one on and denied him the recognition and prize money from the crown he deserved for that day's equivalent of the X-Prize which Harrison apparently won in a story of brilliance and technical dexterity. Only after intervention by the King himself, who threatened to kick some aristocratic butts was a pseudorecognition arranged. Best wishes, Doug From gsac at gmx.net Tue May 12 15:07:50 2009 From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 21:07:50 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] vienna natural history museum In-Reply-To: <20090512190747.ADO7V.169339.root@web04-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> References: <20090512190747.ADO7V.169339.root@web04-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Message-ID: <20090512190750.185550@gmx.net> Fully agreed - definitely one of the best public meteorite displays on the planet in this great old and famous Natural History Museum in central Vienna, and if you ever go there to pay a visit to all the rarities and beauties, please don?t miss that famous Hraschina iron in a cabinet on a floor a bit distant from hall V, one of the absolute highlights! As far as I know they, as many or even most of the other big European museums, have big financial troubles to maintain their collection(s), let alone of advancing them by new aquisitions, but they try by sort of means of public endeavours, and that should hopefully work in the end... Alex Berlin/Germany -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Tue, 12 May 2009 19:07:47 +0100 > Von: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com > An: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" , Jerry Flaherty , Meteorites USA > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] vienna natural history museum > Hi Jerry/all, > > The Vienna collection is out of this world...went last year and just > couldn't stop taking photographs..a visit not to be missed. > > Graham Ensor, UK > > ---- Meteorites USA wrote: > > Wow! > > > > > > > > > > Jerry Flaherty wrote: > > > http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/May09/Meteorites.Vienna.Museum.html > > > > > > Jerry Flaherty > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > -- > > Regards, > > Eric Wichman > > Meteorites USA > > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > > 904-236-5394 > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gmhupe at htn.net Tue May 12 17:30:30 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:30:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Supergiant" Asteroid Impact References: <4A088418.6090901@meteoritesusa.com> <4A08949D.2040309@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <7746FDB27C1F42DD87E301FA98585AFF@Gregor> Here is a great video submitted to the List in March by Bill Hall that may answer your question... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zvCUmeoHpw Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" To: Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Supergiant" Asteroid Impact > Increased discovery of NEOs (NEA) over time... > > http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/stats/ > > This poses yet another not so obvious question. Can Moore's law (or > something similar) predict the rate of discovery based on the > technological advancement of the human species as a whole? Don't forget > to calculate population growth as well... > > World & USA Population clock: http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html > > We are advancing as a species faster than ever before in the history of > human kind. 100 years ago it took months to travel across the world, and > we did not have TV, cell phones,and of course the internet. Today we can > travel to any place on the planet in less than 12 hours and access > information with the click of a mouse. We can talk to another human on the > opposite side of the world with little effort and see what's happening > LIVE in every continent via satellite communication. > > As for exploration, before the next decade is out we might even put a > human being on Mars, and who knows what other scientific discoveries will > be made after that. We're living in a very exciting time. We're in the > midst of a superfast evolutionary change as a species. > > Where are we going next? > > Maybe nowhere if an asteroid slams into us... > > > > > > Meteorites USA wrote: >> >> Article about a supergiant asteroid shutting down Mars's magnetic field. >> >> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/05/090511-mars-asteroid.html >> >> This raises the question that seems to be getting bigger and bigger. What >> would such an impact do to Earth? Would we be wiped out by the impact, >> severe weather, nuclear winter, earthquakes, tsunamis or by the >> atmosphere withering away by the solar winds? Or would humans be able to >> survive underground in manufactured ecosystems capable of supporting >> life? >> >> What if a supergiant asteroid slammed our planet tomorrow? Who would be >> sequestered away deep in the safe rooms underground? >> >> The question is not whether we are prepared -as we are not- the question >> is simply when will we find a solution to this obvious hazard. We're >> finding more asteroids all the time. It's becoming more mainstream, and >> public awareness is growing. Eventually we will find one that is on a >> collision course with Earth. >> >> When taking into account the increased awareness, advances in technology, >> and population increasing over time, I would predict a major discovery in >> less than 5 years. Now, this is not to say that an asteroid will hit in 5 >> years, but at the rate of the increase of awareness the likelihood that >> an amateur astronomer or asteroid hunter will find something increases >> exponentially over time. Not to mention NASA's NEO Project and other >> governmental and educational asteroid hunting programs. >> >> We've all heard the phrase "It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of >> when." when describing the likelihood of an asteroid impacting Earth. >> Well I would say you have to believe that this increase in knowledge and >> discovery is directly related to the increase in technological >> advancement coupled with a population increase. As we are able to see >> more we will learn more faster. >> > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From cdtucson at cox.net Tue May 12 17:42:37 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 14:42:37 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] ID help Please Message-ID: <20090512174237.OD372.261155.imail@fed1rmwml31> List, Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. Thank you. http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030472 at N07/?saved=1 Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 Meteoritemax From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Tue May 12 18:58:34 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:58:34 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] "Supergiant" Asteroid Impact References: <4A088418.6090901@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <2520D7911A2F449E9E60734A1786C2D3@ATARIENGINE2> Hi, Super-Impactors, A 2000-mile crater is No Big Whoop. It requires only a 375-to-400 kilometer asteroid if it's a dense rocky body and a 240-kilometer asteroid if an iron (but an iron that size is unlikely). The little bitty Moon has a 2000-mile crater (we call'em "basins" because anything that big floods with lava afterwards). Scaling for target size and gravitational focusing effects, the Earth should have (or should have had) EIGHTEEN 2000-mile craters. To make one, it takes a 400-kilometer asteroid on a gentle 20 km/s impact. But if it was a 28 km/s impact, it would only need to be a 250-kilometer asteroid. And if it was a long-period comet at right angles and top speed, it wouldn't have to be any bigger than the dozen or so biggest comets of the last two centuries. The depth of the initial crater would be 275 miles! It soon collapses and fills with molten planet, leaving a two-mile deep "basin" 2000 miles across. The safe place to be is exactly halfway around the planet, of course. Even there, you will be rained on by rock vapor as it condenses. The pressure peak of the shock wave will be about 225 pounds per sq. in. or 15 times normal pressure. The wind of the shock wave will be about 2200 mph, Mach Three... halfway around the planet. The hydrothermal vent bacteria will be just fine, though, unless it lands on them. If you're interested in Really Big impacts, I suggest a book called "Comets and the Origin and Evolution if Life," which contains a paper by Zahnle and Sleep on larger impacts. They model one big enough to boil the oceans away, one big enough to melt the entire mantle, one big enough to give the Earth a long-term atmosphere of rock vapor. Almost every trace of such impacts, from initial accretion through the Late Bombardment, are gone. It's amazing what Mother Earth can do with her tectonic make-up. The odds of such an impact now (meaning in the last half-billion years) are small... but not impossible by any means. Sterling K. Webb -------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren Garrison" To: Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Supergiant" Asteroid Impact > On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:01:28 -0700, you wrote: > >>This raises the question that seems to be getting bigger and bigger. >>What would such an impact do to Earth? > > An impact big enough to make a 2,000 mile crater? Think the oceans > boiled away > to their floors, everything bigger than a hydrothermal vent bacterium > killed > instantly, and maybe them, too. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From majesticmeteorites at gmail.com Tue May 12 19:19:36 2009 From: majesticmeteorites at gmail.com (Whitney Riner) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 19:19:36 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] NPR Report Message-ID: Hello List, An NPR segment today on the upcoming meteorite auction, etc. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104065594 Best, Whitney http://www.meteoritechat.com From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com Tue May 12 19:19:58 2009 From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 0:19:58 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] ID help Please In-Reply-To: <20090512174237.OD372.261155.imail@fed1rmwml31> Message-ID: <20090513001958.NQDFW.301192.root@web07-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com> Hi Carl, Are you sure it's not a prehistoric golf club ;-) How do you know its prehistoric and meteoric iron? Just interested in its origin and tests done. Graham ---- cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > List, > Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. > Thank you. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030472 at N07/?saved=1 > > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cdtucson at cox.net Tue May 12 19:21:33 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 16:21:33 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Message-ID: <20090512192133.K1RL0.269297.imail@fed1rmwml30> List, Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl > List, > Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. > Thank you. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030472 at N07/?saved=1 > > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From GeoZay at aol.com Tue May 12 19:31:20 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 19:31:20 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Message-ID: >> I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl<< Where's it from...or is that what you're trying to find out? Two years ago, my brother and I were dredging for gold in the North fork yuba river when we found an old pick axe head...Later found out it was from the early forty-niner era. :O) GeoZay **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322936x1201367173/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =Mayfooter51209NO115) From webbth1 at yahoo.com Tue May 12 20:26:20 2009 From: webbth1 at yahoo.com (Thomas Webb) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 17:26:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re: Iron Meteorite Axe ID Message-ID: <835202.89099.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> -- > > > > > > > > Carl, > You might want to sand and > polish the cut end and > then have someone try etching it with nitric acid or ferric > chloride.? > Don't do it yourself unless you know the procedure as > the chemicals are pretty > corrosive to skin as well.? Then if you get some > Widmanstatten figures it > can be narrowed down some more.? If not, maybe > it's not > meteoritic. > Age and culture could best > be determined by an > adept archaeologist. > Thomas > > From eric at meteoritesusa.com Wed May 13 02:13:18 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 23:13:18 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Don't Touch Green Meteorites Message-ID: <4A0A64FE.7090802@meteoritesusa.com> Especially when it falls through your roof and starts melting... http://shadybrook.wordpress.com/2009/05/12/metorite-information/ http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19921019&slug=1519434 http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19921107&slug=1523226 http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2008/02/07/ice-roof.html http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330047,00.html So don't ever touch green (or blue) meteorites, except for Tataouine of course... ;) -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Wed May 13 07:33:10 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 07:33:10 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 13, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_13_2009.html __________________________ **************Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after instant savings! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221972443x1201442012/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214819441%3B36680237%3Bi) From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Wed May 13 11:43:05 2009 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 08:43:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Hopper tours the Odessa Crater (Video) Message-ID: <290048.16818.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi all, I've been away for a while chasing space rocks - and have been unable to post to the list until a couple of days ago. First want to publicly congratulate STEVE AND GEOFF?for a great job on the NEW TV show!! Second, I want to say that after months of negotiating and waiting?(and with much help from Rob Wesel)?I was finally able to purchase Hopper!? Here is the "About Hopper" Page on my site: It should go with out saying that it will grow with every new adventure we take. http://www.mr-meteorite.net/abouthopper.htm "Hopper goes to Arizona" - a few pics on her last day in West, Texas. http://www.mr-meteorite.net/meteoritefindingdog.htm Lastly, here is a short 2 1/2 minute video as we tour the Odessa Crater Ruben and Hopper tour the Odessa Crater Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a7AtJqWjG8 Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v From epgrondine at yahoo.com Wed May 13 12:12:27 2009 From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:12:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Sterling, help with some calcs please Message-ID: <385158.6246.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi Sterling, all - Given Keller's latest KT announcements, could you give us some rough numbers on infra-red, blast overpressures, winds, and molten rock vapor from the KT impact? Given the kt-fossil meteorite, it seems safe to me to infer a comet impactor. E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas From majbaermann at web.de Wed May 13 12:16:51 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:16:51 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hopper tours the Odessa Crater (Video) References: <290048.16818.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow Ruben, congrats! From now on your hunting-job will turn out to be pretty easy. But I do miss the copy of a fair contract you concluded with the wonder-dog her(?)self - what about 1 big T-bone-steak for 500 gms ordinary chondrite / 50 gms cc's / 20 gms achondrites / 3 gms planetary etc. ? Best wishs for the team, Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruben Garcia" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 5:43 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Hopper tours the Odessa Crater (Video) Hi all, I've been away for a while chasing space rocks - and have been unable to post to the list until a couple of days ago. First want to publicly congratulate STEVE AND GEOFF for a great job on the NEW TV show!! Second, I want to say that after months of negotiating and waiting (and with much help from Rob Wesel) I was finally able to purchase Hopper! Here is the "About Hopper" Page on my site: It should go with out saying that it will grow with every new adventure we take. http://www.mr-meteorite.net/abouthopper.htm "Hopper goes to Arizona" - a few pics on her last day in West, Texas. http://www.mr-meteorite.net/meteoritefindingdog.htm Lastly, here is a short 2 1/2 minute video as we tour the Odessa Crater Ruben and Hopper tour the Odessa Crater Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a7AtJqWjG8 Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From gmhupe at htn.net Wed May 13 12:30:25 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 12:30:25 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hopper tours the Odessa Crater (Video) References: <290048.16818.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <401B640B169546EDA89D91363AAC20EE@Gregor> Hi Ruben, Congrats on acquiring "Hopper". Now you have an expert meteorite hunter with the nose to find them. But, be sure to pick 'her' fresh falls in the strewnfield ;-) Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruben Garcia" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:43 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Hopper tours the Odessa Crater (Video) Hi all, I've been away for a while chasing space rocks - and have been unable to post to the list until a couple of days ago. First want to publicly congratulate STEVE AND GEOFF for a great job on the NEW TV show!! Second, I want to say that after months of negotiating and waiting (and with much help from Rob Wesel) I was finally able to purchase Hopper! Here is the "About Hopper" Page on my site: It should go with out saying that it will grow with every new adventure we take. http://www.mr-meteorite.net/abouthopper.htm "Hopper goes to Arizona" - a few pics on her last day in West, Texas. http://www.mr-meteorite.net/meteoritefindingdog.htm Lastly, here is a short 2 1/2 minute video as we tour the Odessa Crater Ruben and Hopper tour the Odessa Crater Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a7AtJqWjG8 Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cdtucson at cox.net Wed May 13 12:38:06 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 9:38:06 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID In-Reply-To: <108945.1637.qm@web111014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090513123806.BUSHU.277179.imail@fed1rmwml45> Thank you Jack, Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. ---- Jack Schrader wrote: > > Hello Carl.? My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite.? This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776.? This meteoritic iron was well? known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools.? Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals.? Best wishes, Jack ----- Original Message ---- From: "cdtucson at cox.net" To: meteoritelist Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:21:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID List, Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe? made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl > List, > Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. > Thank you. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030472 at N07/?saved=1 > > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From peterscherff at rcn.com Wed May 13 13:25:32 2009 From: peterscherff at rcn.com (Peter Scherff) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:25:32 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID In-Reply-To: <20090513123806.BUSHU.277179.imail@fed1rmwml45> References: <108945.1637.qm@web111014.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20090513123806.BUSHU.277179.imail@fed1rmwml45> Message-ID: <03ed01c9d3ef$d276df20$77649d60$@com> Hi Carl, The photos of the iron object you posted are interesting. Perhaps we could give you more information if you could tell us why you think that the object is prehistoric, why it is meteoritic and why it is an ax? Thanks, Peter Scherff -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of cdtucson at cox.net Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM To: Jack Schrader; meteoritelist Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Thank you Jack, Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. ---- Jack Schrader wrote: > > Hello Carl. My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite. This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776. This meteoritic iron was well known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools. Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals. Best wishes, Jack ----- Original Message ---- From: "cdtucson at cox.net" To: meteoritelist Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:21:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID List, Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl > List, > Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. > Thank you. > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030472 at N07/?saved=1 > > Carl Esparza > IMCA 5829 > Meteoritemax > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Wed May 13 13:32:02 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-LAST CALL-Historical Dr. H.H. Nininger Collectables! Message-ID: <484719.9635.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, Just a friendly reminder that the historical items up for auction from the Nininger/Huss estate are due to end tomorrow. Dr. H.H. Nininger is considered the "Father of Modern Meteoritics" and anything associated with him is aggressively sought after by collectors. You will see one-of-a-kind items that will never be available again so you may want to check them out and place a bid. All Auctions Can Be Found At This link: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ All 18 exceptional Nininger estate items can be found at these links: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318756112 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338928445 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318754389 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338926633 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318753689 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338925277 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318752678 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338923023 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338921947 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318750898 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318749651 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338918583 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318748169 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338917015 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338916388 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338915412 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140318746492 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200338913016 And many more examples worth looking at can be found at this link: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck. Best Regards, ------------------------------------ Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection Team LunarRock IMCA 2185 raremeteorites at yahoo.com From cdtucson at cox.net Wed May 13 14:42:35 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 14:42:35 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID In-Reply-To: <03ed01c9d3ef$d276df20$77649d60$@com> Message-ID: <20090513144235.AV58A.282075.imail@fed1rmwml44> Peter, I purchased this at an estate sale in Tucson and all the lady told me was that her late husband told her it was made of "meteor" and was a weapon from Egypt used for killing and not for kitchen use. ( good words to help sell? Maybe!) I deal in antiques so, I know there is always a story but the story does not always match the facts. I did try to acid etch the polished end and it dulls evenly except is small circles where it stays very shiny. No Widmanstatten or Newman lines. It still has a decent edge as well. I am being told that ASU has an AXE from Toluca so I am going to try and find a pic but I have not seen it yet. Thank you. Carl ---- Peter Scherff wrote: > Hi Carl, > The photos of the iron object you posted are interesting. Perhaps we could give you more information if you could tell us why you think that the object is prehistoric, why it is meteoritic and why it is an ax? > Thanks, > Peter Scherff > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of cdtucson at cox.net > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM > To: Jack Schrader; meteoritelist > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > > Thank you Jack, > Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. > > ---- Jack Schrader wrote: > > > > Hello Carl. My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite. This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776. This meteoritic iron was well known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools. Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals. Best wishes, Jack > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "cdtucson at cox.net" > To: meteoritelist > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:21:33 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > > List, > Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl > > > List, > > Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. > > Thank you. > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030472 at N07/?saved=1 > > > > Carl Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > Meteoritemax > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From peterscherff at rcn.com Wed May 13 15:37:48 2009 From: peterscherff at rcn.com (Peter Scherff) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 15:37:48 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID In-Reply-To: <20090513144235.AV58A.282075.imail@fed1rmwml44> References: <03ed01c9d3ef$d276df20$77649d60$@com> <20090513144235.AV58A.282075.imail@fed1rmwml44> Message-ID: <042c01c9d402$4c565840$e50308c0$@com> Hi Carl, When a meteorite is heated and worked any widmanstatten pattern is usually destroyed. So the lack of a pattern won?t prove anything. I am somewhat skeptical as to your objects origin. My skepticism arises out of the shape of the handle. From the photos the handle portion appears to have a round cross section. That makes me think that the object was forged from an iron rod. Thanks, Peter -----Original Message----- From: cdtucson at cox.net [mailto:cdtucson at cox.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:43 PM To: Peter Scherff; meteoritelist Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Peter, I purchased this at an estate sale in Tucson and all the lady told me was that her late husband told her it was made of "meteor" and was a weapon from Egypt used for killing and not for kitchen use. ( good words to help sell? Maybe!) I deal in antiques so, I know there is always a story but the story does not always match the facts. I did try to acid etch the polished end and it dulls evenly except is small circles where it stays very shiny. No Widmanstatten or Newman lines. It still has a decent edge as well. I am being told that ASU has an AXE from Toluca so I am going to try and find a pic but I have not seen it yet. Thank you. Carl ---- Peter Scherff wrote: > Hi Carl, > The photos of the iron object you posted are interesting. Perhaps we could give you more information if you could tell us why you think that the object is prehistoric, why it is meteoritic and why it is an ax? > Thanks, > Peter Scherff > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of cdtucson at cox.net > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM > To: Jack Schrader; meteoritelist > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > > Thank you Jack, > Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. > > ---- Jack Schrader wrote: > > > > Hello Carl. My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite. This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776. This meteoritic iron was well known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools. Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals. Best wishes, Jack > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "cdtucson at cox.net" > To: meteoritelist > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:21:33 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > > List, > Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl > > > List, > > Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. > > Thank you. > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030472 at N07/?saved=1 > > > > Carl Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > Meteoritemax > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From bristolia at yahoo.com Wed May 13 16:10:52 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Listeners Correct Auctioneer About Meteorite History Message-ID: <244163.15633.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Letters: Meteorite, All Things Considered, May 13, 2009 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104104547 ?There were many letters in response to an interview about the auction of the Garza Stone, a meteorite that hit a house in Park Forest, Ill., in 2003. Listeners were quick to point out that ? contrary to what the organizer of this auction suggested ? there is at least one documented case of a personbeing hit by a falling rock from outer space.? The story commented on is: Interviews: Why Are Meteorites So Expensive? All Things Considered, May 12, 2009 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104065594 ?Some pricey chunks of space rock are among the objects for sale at a Dallas auction house this weekend.? Yours, Paul H. From gmhupe at htn.net Wed May 13 17:58:34 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 17:58:34 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zaklodzie-Like NWA 4301 Description Message-ID: Dear List Members, It is my pleasure to offer a new meteorite that I have had for three years. It is one of those great head-scratching, mind-boggling meteorites that makes one say, "How is that?!" NWA 4301, a Zaklodzie-Like Ungrouped Enstatite-rich Achondrite found in Algeria in 2006 by nomadic tribesman. NWA 4301 is nearly identical to Zaklodzie, both in mineral composition and terrestrial age, about 300 years (The same scientist at NSF Arizona AMS Laboratory measured the terrestrial age dates of both meteorites). If they had not fallen 3000 km apart, NWA 4301 would have been considered a pairing. While that is unlikely, scientists agree they are most likely source launch-paired! The Total Known Weight of NWA 4301 consists of a single 685 gram stone. Close-up view of polished slice of NWA 4301 (depth of field = 2cm across): http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/nwa4301closeup.jpg Scientists write: "This meteorite [NWA 4301] is essentially a clone of Zaklodzie, for which . a very young terrestrial age of several hundreds of years [was found] (even though it is weathered to some extent). I presume that the terrestrial ages of these two are analytically distinguishable, but it could still be that they are launch-paired." "NWA 4301 seems much fresher than Zaklodzie." "I believe that the [terrestrial ages] are permissive of both stones being part of the same fall, but landing 3000 km apart in Poland and Algeria. Of course there is a very large uncertainty, so it does not prove it, but the two meteorites are remarkably similar and different from anything else." Approved classification published in Meteoritical Bulletin 91 for NWA 4301: Northwest Africa 4301 Mauritania or Algeria Find: April 2006 Enstatite achondrite (ungrouped) History: Purchased in April 2006 by G. Hup? from a Moroccan dealer in Rabat. Physical characteristics: A single 685 g stone with some reddish external weathering. Petrography: (A. Irving and S. Kuehner, UWS) Subequigranular igneous cumulate texture with relatively coarse-grained (0.2-0.8 mm) silicate, metal, and sulfide grains. Composed mainly of polysynthetically twinned pure enstatite = 70 vol% and kamacite = 15 vol%, with subordinate interstitial plagioclase = 10 vol% and troilite = 5 vol%. Micrometer-size blades and blebs of kamacite and rare daubreelite also occur as inclusions within enstatite. Mineral composition: Plagioclase (An30.7-37.6Or1.8-1.3). Classification: Enstatite achondrite (ungrouped). Terrestrial weathering has produced some limonite along grain boundaries. This specimen is very similar in texture and mineral compositions to Zaklodzie. Type specimen: A total of 22.9 g, one polished thin section and one polished mount, are on deposit at UWS. G. Hup? holds the main mass. I will be making NWA 4301 available and will send a follow-up post which will have the limited amount of available specimens. Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From gmhupe at htn.net Wed May 13 18:48:20 2009 From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:48:20 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 4301 Specimens, Zaklodzie-Like AD Message-ID: <065F38393E904D23BCF9DB8F2B7BDF71@Gregor> Dear List Members, As promised, please find below the limited amount of specimens of NWA 4301, the new Zaklodzie-Like Ungrouped Enstatite-rich Achondrite. NWA 4301 has a low TKW of just 685 grams, while Zaklodzie has a TKW of a whopping 8.68 kilos, making my NWA 4301 offering an exceptional deal! There are only 11 specimens plus four eBay auctions. In case you did not see my earlier post with the description and classification of NWA 4301, I have loaded on eBay the four smallest specimens from which you can see this information, all started at just 99 cents! Please see links at the end of the available specimens list below for auction links. NWA 4301 Upgrouped Enstatite (all measurements are in millimeters): 276g Main Mass 84 x 36 x 40 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00001.jpg 25.4g cs (SOLD) 84 x 35 x 2.5 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00003.jpg 24.9g cs (SOLD) 83 x 35 x 2.5 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00004.jpg 24.5g cs 83 x 35 x 2.5 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00005.jpg 23.5g cs 83 x 35 x 2.5 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00006.jpg 22.8g cs 81 x 35 x 2.5 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00007.jpg 22.7g cs 80 x 35 x 2.5 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00008.jpg 21.6g cs 83 x 35 x 2.5 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00009.jpg 19.6g cs 77 x 33 x 2.5 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00010.jpg 19g cs (polished both sides) 82 x 35 x 2.5 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00011.jpg 18.8g cs 74 x 33 x 2.5 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00012.jpg 18.7g cs 78 x 34 x 2.5 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00013.jpg 17.5g cs 70 x 33 x 2.5 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00014.jpg 13.7g cs (SOLD) 63 x 31 x 2.5 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00015.jpg 9.5g cs (SOLD) 57 x 31 x 1.75 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00016.jpg 3.3g cs (SOLD) 50 x 29 x 1 http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4301/dsc00017.jpg cs - complete slice Pricing: $75.00/g polished slices, Main Mass (offers considered). Here is a list of the four smallest specimens, which are currently on eBay, started at just 99 cents!! 682mg Polished End Cut http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170331973085 324mg Polished End Cut http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170331973917 276mg unPolished Part Slice http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=170331974910 134mg Polished Fragment http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=350201742050 Thank you for considering these! This is all that is available of NWA 4301, once they are gone, there will be no more! I also just loaded 40 eBay auctions that will end next Wednesday, and include a number of achondrites, Lunar, Martian and even a Park Forest "Garza" Impact kit. Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault Best regards, Greg ==================== Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmhupe at htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 ==================== Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Wed May 13 20:35:16 2009 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 17:35:16 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hopper tours the Odessa Crater (Video) References: <290048.16818.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <018301c9d42b$da845e40$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> In a twist of cosmic irony, Pauline Alligood offered Ruben the sale of the stone, which he handed off to me and me the sale of the dog, which I handed off to Ruben. In any event, both the stone and the dog have loving owners and good homes. One day, long happy dog years from now, they will reunite. Congratulations to Ruben and Hopper, may your hunts be fruitful. Ruben, I hope you bathed her twice. Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruben Garcia" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:43 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Hopper tours the Odessa Crater (Video) Hi all, I've been away for a while chasing space rocks - and have been unable to post to the list until a couple of days ago. First want to publicly congratulate STEVE AND GEOFF for a great job on the NEW TV show!! Second, I want to say that after months of negotiating and waiting (and with much help from Rob Wesel) I was finally able to purchase Hopper! Here is the "About Hopper" Page on my site: It should go with out saying that it will grow with every new adventure we take. http://www.mr-meteorite.net/abouthopper.htm "Hopper goes to Arizona" - a few pics on her last day in West, Texas. http://www.mr-meteorite.net/meteoritefindingdog.htm Lastly, here is a short 2 1/2 minute video as we tour the Odessa Crater Ruben and Hopper tour the Odessa Crater Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a7AtJqWjG8 Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed May 13 20:42:47 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 17:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Spitzer Catches Star Cooking Up Comet Crystals Message-ID: <200905140042.RAA01428@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-083 Spitzer Catches Star Cooking Up Comet Crystals Jet Propulsion Laboatory May 13, 2009 Scientists have long wondered how tiny silicate crystals, which need sizzling high temperatures to form, have found their way into frozen comets, born in the deep freeze of the solar system's outer edges. The crystals would have begun as non-crystallized silicate particles, part of the mix of gas and dust from which the solar system developed. A team of astronomers believes they have found a new explanation for both where and how these crystals may have been created, by using NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope to observe the growing pains of a young, sun-like star. Their study results, which appear in the May 14 issue of Nature, provide new insight into the formation of planets and comets. The researchers from Germany, Hungary and the Netherlands found that silicate appears to have been transformed into crystalline form by an outburst from a star. They detected the infrared signature of silicate crystals on the disk of dust and gas surrounding the star EX Lupi during one of its frequent flare-ups, or outbursts, seen by Spitzer in April 2008. These crystals were not present in Spitzer's previous observations of the star's disk during one of its quiet periods. "We believe that we have observed, for the first time, ongoing crystal formation," said one of the paper's authors, Attila Juhasz of the Max-Planck Institute for Astronomy in Heidelberg, Germany. "We think that the crystals were formed by thermal annealing of small particles on the surface layer of the star's inner disk by heat from the outburst. This is a completely new scenario about how this material could be created." Annealing is a process in which a material is heated to a certain temperature at which some of its bonds break and then re-form, changing the material's physical properties. It is one way that silicate dust can be transformed into crystalline form. Scientists previously had considered two different possible scenarios in which annealing could create the silicate crystals found in comets and young stars' disks. In one scenario, long exposure to heat from an infant star might anneal some of the silicate dust inside the disk's center. In the other, shock waves induced by a large body within the disk might heat dust grains suddenly to the right temperature to crystallize them, after which the crystals would cool nearly as quickly. What Juhasz and his colleagues found at EX Lupi didn't fit either of the earlier theories. "We concluded that this is a third way in which silicate crystals may be formed with annealing, one not considered before," said the paper's lead author, Peter Abraham of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences' Konkoly Observatory, Budapest, Hungary. EX Lupi is a young star, possibly similar to our sun four or five billion years ago. Every few years, it experiences outbursts, or eruptions, that astronomers think are the result of the star gathering up mass that has accumulated in its surrounding disk. These flare-ups vary in intensity, with really big eruptions occurring every 50 years or so. The researchers observed EX Lupi with Spitzer's infrared spectrograph in April 2008. Although the star was beginning to fade from the peak of a major outburst detected in January, it was still 30 times brighter than when it was quiet. When they compared this new view of the erupting star with Spitzer measurements made in 2005 before the eruption began, they found significant changes. In 2005, the silicate on the surface of the star's disk appeared to be in the form of amorphous grains of dust. In 2008, the spectrum showed the presence of crystalline silicate on top of amorphous dust. The crystals appear to be forsterite, a material often found in comets and in protoplanetary disks. The crystals also appear hot, evidence that they were created in a high-temperature process, but not by shock heating. If that were the case, they would already be cool. "At outburst, EX Lupi became about 100 times more luminous," said Juhasz. "Crystals formed in the surface layer of the disk but just at the distance from the star where the temperature was high enough to anneal the silicate--about 1,000 Kelvin (1,340 degrees Fahrenheit)--but still lower than 1,500 Kelvin (2,240 degrees Fahrenheit). Above that, the dust grains will evaporate." The radius of this crystal formation zone, the researchers note, is comparable to that of the terrestrial-planet region in the solar system. "These observations show, for the first time, the actual production of crystalline silicates like those found in comets and meteorites in our own solar system," said Spitzer Project Scientist Michael Werner of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. "So what we see in comets today may have been produced by repeated bursts of energy when the sun was young." JPL manages the Spitzer Space Telescope mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Science operations are conducted at the Spitzer Science Center at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. Caltech manages JPL for NASA. More information about Spitzer is at http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/spitzer and http://www.nasa.gov/spitzer . Whitney Clavin 818-354-4673 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Whitney.clavin at jpl.nasa.gov From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed May 13 20:48:10 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 17:48:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Did a Nickel Famine Trigger the 'Great Oxidation Event'? Message-ID: <200905140048.RAA02954@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Carnegie Institution of Washington Contact: Dominic Papineau, 202-478-8908 April 8, 2009 Did a Nickel Famine Trigger the "Great Oxidation Event"? Washington, D.C. -- The Earth's original atmosphere held very little oxygen. This began to change around 2.4 billion years ago when oxygen levels increased dramatically during what scientists call the "Great Oxidation Event." The cause of this event has puzzled scientists, but researchers writing in Nature[*] have found indications in ancient sedimentary rocks that it may have been linked to a drop in the level of dissolved nickel in seawater. "The Great Oxidation Event is what irreversibly changed surface environments on Earth and ultimately made advanced life possible," says research team member Dominic Papineau of the Carnegie Institution's Geophysical Laboratory. "It was a major turning point in the evolution of our planet, and we are getting closer to understanding how it occurred." The researchers, led by Kurt Konhauser of the University of Alberta in Edmonton, analyzed the trace element composition of sedimentary rocks known as banded-iron formations, or BIFs, from dozens of different localities around the world, ranging in age from 3,800 to 550 million years. Banded iron formations are unique, water-laid deposits often found in extremely old rock strata that formed before the atmosphere or oceans contained abundant oxygen. As their name implies, they are made of alternating bands of iron and silicate minerals. They also contain minor amounts of nickel and other trace elements. Nickel exists in today's oceans in trace amounts, but was up to 400 times more abundant in the Earth's primordial oceans. Methane-producing microorganisms, called methanogens, thrive in such environments, and the methane they released to the atmosphere might have prevented the buildup of oxygen gas, which would have reacted with the methane to produce carbon dioxide and water. A drop in nickel concentration would have led to a "nickel famine" for the methanogens, who rely on nickel-based enzymes for key metabolic processes. Algae and other organisms that release oxygen during photosynthesis use different enzymes, and so would have been less affected by the nickel famine. As a result, atmospheric methane would have declined, and the conditions for the rise of oxygen would have been set in place. The researchers found that nickel levels in the BIFs began dropping around 2.7 billion years ago and by 2.5 billion years ago was about half its earlier value. "The timing fits very well. The drop in nickel could have set the stage for the Great Oxidation Event," says Papineau. "And from what we know about living methanogens, lower levels of nickel would have severely cut back methane production." What caused the drop in nickel? The researchers point to geologic changes that were occurring during the interval. During earlier phases of the Earth's history, while its mantle was extremely hot, lavas from volcanic eruptions would have been relatively high in nickel. Erosion would have washed the nickel into the sea, keeping levels high. But as the mantle cooled, and the chemistry of lavas changed, volcanoes spewed out less nickel, and less would have found its way to the sea. "The nickel connection was not something anyone had considered before," says Papineau. "It's just a trace element in seawater, but our study indicates that it may have had a huge impact on the Earth's environment and on the history of life." [*] Kurt O. Konhauser, Ernesto Pecoits, Stefan V. Lalonde, Dominic Papineau, Euan G. Nisbet, Mark E. Barley, Nicholas T. Arndt, Kevin Zahnle & Balz S. Kamber, Oceanic nickel depletion and a methanogen famine before the Great Oxidation Event, scheduled for publication in Nature on 09 April, 2009. IMAGE CAPTION: [http://www.gl.ciw.edu/sites/www.gl.ciw.edu/files/u12/DSC02297small.jpg (452KB)] Banded iron formations like this from northern Michigan contain evidence of a drop in dissolved nickel in ancient oceans. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Wed May 13 20:49:58 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 17:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Soft Ground Puts Spirit in Danger Despite Gain in Daily Energy Message-ID: <200905140049.RAA04028@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-082 Soft Ground Puts Spirit in Danger Despite Gain in Daily Energy Jet Propulsion Laboratory May 11, 2009 Mars Exploration Rover Mission Status Report PASADENA, Calif. -- The five wheels that still rotate on NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Spirit have been slipping severely in soft soil during recent attempts to drive, sinking the wheels about halfway into the ground. The rover team of engineers and scientists has suspended driving Spirit temporarily while studying the ground around the rover and planning simulation tests of driving options with a test rover at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. "Spirit is in a very difficult situation," JPL's John Callas, project manager for Spirit and its twin rover, Opportunity, said Monday. "We are proceeding methodically and cautiously. It may be weeks before we try moving Spirit again. Meanwhile, we are using Spirit's scientific instruments to learn more about the physical properties of the soil that is giving us trouble." Both Spirit and Opportunity have operated more than five years longer than their originally planned missions of three months on Mars and have driven much farther than designed. The rover team has so far developed ways to cope with various symptoms of aging on both rovers. Spirit has been driving counterclockwise from north to south around a low plateau called "Home Plate" for two months. The rover progressed 122 meters (400 feet) on that route before reaching its current position. In the past week, the digging-in of Spirit's wheels has raised concerns that the rover's belly pan could now be low enough to contact rocks underneath the chassis, which would make getting out of the situation more difficult. The right-front wheel on Spirit stopped working three years ago. Driving with just five powered wheels while dragging or pushing an immobile wheel adds to the challenge of the situation. Favorably, three times in the past month, wind has removed some of the dust accumulated on Spirit's solar panels. This increases the rover's capability for generating electricity. "The improved power situation buys us time," Callas said. "We will use that time to plan the next steps carefully. We know that dust storms could return at any time, although the skies are currently clear." Behavioral problems that Spirit exhibited in early April -- episodes of amnesia, computer resets and failure to wake for communications sessions -- have not recurred in the past three weeks, though investigations have yet to diagnose the root causes. JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Mars Exploration Rover project for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Media contact: Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov 2009-082 From meteoritemall at yahoo.com Wed May 13 21:30:20 2009 From: meteoritemall at yahoo.com (Ruben Garcia) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Hopper tours the Odessa Crater (Video) In-Reply-To: <018301c9d42b$da845e40$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> References: <290048.16818.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <018301c9d42b$da845e40$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Message-ID: <700609.41995.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks to all that sent kind words to both Hopper and Myself....Very Nice! Rob, We bathed her twice in West, once in El Paso?and once when we got home. She's smelling nice now! ?Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v ----- Original Message ---- From: Rob Wesel To: Ruben Garcia ; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 5:35:16 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hopper tours the Odessa Crater (Video) In a twist of cosmic irony, Pauline Alligood offered Ruben the sale of the stone, which he handed off to me and me the sale of the dog, which I handed off to Ruben. In any event, both the stone and the dog have loving owners and good homes. One day, long happy dog years from now, they will reunite. Congratulations to Ruben and Hopper, may your hunts be fruitful. Ruben, I hope you bathed her twice. Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruben Garcia" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:43 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Hopper tours the Odessa Crater (Video) Hi all, I've been away for a while chasing space rocks - and have been unable to post to the list until a couple of days ago. First want to publicly congratulate STEVE AND GEOFF for a great job on the NEW TV show!! Second, I want to say that after months of negotiating and waiting (and with much help from Rob Wesel) I was finally able to purchase Hopper! Here is the "About Hopper" Page on my site: It should go with out saying that it will grow with every new adventure we take. http://www.mr-meteorite.net/abouthopper.htm "Hopper goes to Arizona" - a few pics on her last day in West, Texas. http://www.mr-meteorite.net/meteoritefindingdog.htm Lastly, here is a short 2 1/2 minute video as we tour the Odessa Crater Ruben and Hopper tour the Odessa Crater Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a7AtJqWjG8 Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com Wed May 13 21:57:21 2009 From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:57:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Hopper tours the Odessa Crater (Video) References: <290048.16818.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <018301c9d42b$da845e40$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> <700609.41995.qm@web32508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01d301c9d437$51e32420$6501a8c0@windows9bb74fe> Four washes is a good start. Some real food and she'll be sweet as a rose. Man I bet she's beside herself. Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruben Garcia" To: "Rob Wesel" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hopper tours the Odessa Crater (Video) Thanks to all that sent kind words to both Hopper and Myself....Very Nice! Rob, We bathed her twice in West, once in El Paso and once when we got home. She's smelling nice now! Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v ----- Original Message ---- From: Rob Wesel To: Ruben Garcia ; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 5:35:16 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hopper tours the Odessa Crater (Video) In a twist of cosmic irony, Pauline Alligood offered Ruben the sale of the stone, which he handed off to me and me the sale of the dog, which I handed off to Ruben. In any event, both the stone and the dog have loving owners and good homes. One day, long happy dog years from now, they will reunite. Congratulations to Ruben and Hopper, may your hunts be fruitful. Ruben, I hope you bathed her twice. Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com ------------------ We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruben Garcia" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:43 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Hopper tours the Odessa Crater (Video) Hi all, I've been away for a while chasing space rocks - and have been unable to post to the list until a couple of days ago. First want to publicly congratulate STEVE AND GEOFF for a great job on the NEW TV show!! Second, I want to say that after months of negotiating and waiting (and with much help from Rob Wesel) I was finally able to purchase Hopper! Here is the "About Hopper" Page on my site: It should go with out saying that it will grow with every new adventure we take. http://www.mr-meteorite.net/abouthopper.htm "Hopper goes to Arizona" - a few pics on her last day in West, Texas. http://www.mr-meteorite.net/meteoritefindingdog.htm Lastly, here is a short 2 1/2 minute video as we tour the Odessa Crater Ruben and Hopper tour the Odessa Crater Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a7AtJqWjG8 Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona Website: http://www.Mr-Meteorite.Net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=meteorfright&p=v ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From midwest at meteorman.org Wed May 13 22:23:39 2009 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 21:23:39 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men References: <200905140048.RAA02954@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: Hello List, Geoff and Steve, The Meteorite Men was a great piece of work. Geoff you had some wonderful things to say about meteorites that should help the hobby. I really enjoyed it, so did many others that I told to watch it. It looked like you guys had fun and some real work too:) Congratulations Tim Heitz From mary.kashuba at verizon.net Wed May 13 22:30:16 2009 From: mary.kashuba at verizon.net (Kashuba) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 19:30:16 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID In-Reply-To: <042c01c9d402$4c565840$e50308c0$@com> References: <03ed01c9d3ef$d276df20$77649d60$@com> <20090513144235.AV58A.282075.imail@fed1rmwml44> <042c01c9d402$4c565840$e50308c0$@com> Message-ID: <003d01c9d43b$eb3926c0$c1ab7440$@kashuba@verizon.net> List, This is not the shape of a tool made to hack, throw, push or pull. The shape of the "blade" and the location of mass is wrong. Further, a people that was short of iron would not have made an implement with a solid handle. I suggest this is a bar scarffed to be joined by welding to a similarly scarffed bar to form a corner for some structural application. It might even be part of such a joint that has failed and has been cut away from reusable stock. The nickel test should be enlightening. - John John Kashuba Ontario, California -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Peter Scherff Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM To: cdtucson at cox.net; 'meteoritelist' Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Hi Carl, When a meteorite is heated and worked any widmanstatten pattern is usually destroyed. So the lack of a pattern won?t prove anything. I am somewhat skeptical as to your objects origin. My skepticism arises out of the shape of the handle. From the photos the handle portion appears to have a round cross section. That makes me think that the object was forged from an iron rod. Thanks, Peter -----Original Message----- From: cdtucson at cox.net [mailto:cdtucson at cox.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:43 PM To: Peter Scherff; meteoritelist Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID Peter, I purchased this at an estate sale in Tucson and all the lady told me was that her late husband told her it was made of "meteor" and was a weapon from Egypt used for killing and not for kitchen use. ( good words to help sell? Maybe!) I deal in antiques so, I know there is always a story but the story does not always match the facts. I did try to acid etch the polished end and it dulls evenly except is small circles where it stays very shiny. No Widmanstatten or Newman lines. It still has a decent edge as well. I am being told that ASU has an AXE from Toluca so I am going to try and find a pic but I have not seen it yet. Thank you. Carl ---- Peter Scherff wrote: > Hi Carl, > The photos of the iron object you posted are interesting. Perhaps we could give you more information if you could tell us why you think that the object is prehistoric, why it is meteoritic and why it is an ax? > Thanks, > Peter Scherff > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of cdtucson at cox.net > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM > To: Jack Schrader; meteoritelist > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > > Thank you Jack, > Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. > > ---- Jack Schrader wrote: > > > > Hello Carl. My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite. This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776. This meteoritic iron was well known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools. Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals. Best wishes, Jack > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "cdtucson at cox.net" > To: meteoritelist > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:21:33 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > > List, > Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl > > > List, > > Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. > > Thank you. > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030472 at N07/?saved=1 > > > > Carl Esparza > > IMCA 5829 > > Meteoritemax > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From jnbran at verizon.net Wed May 13 22:58:36 2009 From: jnbran at verizon.net (JASON PHILLIPS) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 21:58:36 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men In-Reply-To: References: <200905140048.RAA02954@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> Message-ID: <0484F7E2B60442FD8499204EAF51D2D3@AcerPC> Hello List, I have to completely agree with Tim and I for one am very excited to learn more about "Alpha", which I am sure is code for something pretty great. Good job guys and thanks for promoting our hobby in such a great light. Take Care, Jason ----- Original Message ----- From: "Timothy Heitz" To: "Meteorite Mailing List" ; "steve arnold" ; "Geoff Notkin" Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 9:23 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men > Hello List, Geoff and Steve, > > The Meteorite Men was a great piece of work. Geoff you had some wonderful > things to say about meteorites that should help the hobby. > > I really enjoyed it, so did many others that I told to watch it. > > It looked like you guys had fun and some real work too:) > > Congratulations > Tim Heitz > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From GeoZay at aol.com Wed May 13 23:14:30 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 23:14:30 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Message-ID: >>Good job guys and thanks for promoting our hobby in such a great light.<< So...does this mean that Geoff and Steve plan on cutting freebie pieces for everyone on the list? :O) Well...that's the rumor that's going around. Let me see now...pass this on to 15 on list friends. If you break the chain your sikhote-alins will turn to rust. :O) Seriously guys...job well done. I enjoyed it more than I thought I would. GeoZay **************Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after instant savings! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221972443x1201442012/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214819441%3B36680237%3Bi) From mlblood at cox.net Wed May 13 23:19:47 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 20:19:47 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men In-Reply-To: <0484F7E2B60442FD8499204EAF51D2D3@AcerPC> Message-ID: ARRRRR, Yee two sea dogs did a right good job of it, yee did! RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK, like it wuz! Cap'n Blood > From: Jason Phillips > Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 21:58:36 -0500 > To: Timothy Heitz , Meteorite List > , steve arnold > , Geoff Notkin > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men > > Hello List, > I have to completely agree with Tim and I for one am very excited to learn > more about "Alpha", which I am sure is code for something pretty great. > Good job guys and thanks for promoting our hobby in such a great light. > > Take Care, > Jason > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Timothy Heitz" > To: "Meteorite Mailing List" ; "steve > arnold" ; "Geoff Notkin" > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 9:23 PM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men > > >> Hello List, Geoff and Steve, >> >> The Meteorite Men was a great piece of work. Geoff you had some wonderful >> things to say about meteorites that should help the hobby. >> >> I really enjoyed it, so did many others that I told to watch it. >> >> It looked like you guys had fun and some real work too:) >> >> Congratulations >> Tim Heitz >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mlblood at cox.net Wed May 13 23:26:21 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 20:26:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED people being hit - Listeners Correct Auctioneer About Meteorite History In-Reply-To: <244163.15633.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "Documented" is an interesting concept: I know of 3 off the top of my head I have No doubts about: 1) the obvious: Sylacauga, with Newspaper photo, A medical Dr., etc. 2) Mbali - a boy struck in the arm after a very Small meteorite pierced a bananna tree slowing It down. 3) L'Aigle - A carriageman struck > From: Paul > Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:10:52 -0700 (PDT) > To: Meteorite List > Subject: [meteorite-list] Listeners Correct Auctioneer About Meteorite History > > Letters: Meteorite, All Things Considered, May 13, > 2009 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104104547 ?There > were many letters in response to an interview about the auction of the Garza > Stone, a meteorite that hit a house in Park Forest, Ill., in 2003. Listeners > were quick to point out that ? contrary to what the organizer of this auction > suggested ? there is at least one documented case of a personbeing hit by a > falling rock from outer space.? The story commented on is: Interviews: Why > Are Meteorites So Expensive? All Things Considered, May 12, > 2009 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104065594 ?Some > pricey chunks of space rock are among the objects for sale at a Dallas > auction house this weekend.? Yours, Paul H. > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.co > m Meteorite-list mailing > list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listi > nfo/meteorite-list From mlblood at cox.net Wed May 13 23:41:59 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 20:41:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED Human strikes - Listeners Correct Auctioneer About Meteorite History In-Reply-To: <244163.15633.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul, I can think of at least 3 off the top of my head. Of course, Some people have strange Ideas about what "documented" means: 1) The obvious: Sylacauga with a photo of the "victime" Next to a medical Dr. 2) Mbali: a boy was struck in the arm after a small stone passed Through a banana tree (slowing it down to a "safe" speed) 3) L'Aigle: A coachman was struck(among other things) in this Thoroughly investigated fall. Best wishes, Michael > > ?There were many letters in response to an interview about the auction of > the Garza Stone, a meteorite that hit a house in Park Forest, Ill., in 2003. > Listeners were quick to point out that ? contrary to what the organizer of > this auction suggested ? there is at least one documented case of a > personbeing hit by a falling rock from outer space.? From deanbessey at yahoo.com Thu May 14 01:48:11 2009 From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 22:48:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: BIG NWA WEBSITE UPDATE Message-ID: <156176.34824.qm@web56103.mail.re3.yahoo.com> I have been busy adding new NWA meteorites to my website and significantly marking down (by 20% to 50%) meteorites that have been sitting there unsold for a while. Lots of NWA bargains. See my website here: http://www.meteoriteshop.com For direct links to the sale pages click here: http://www.meteoriteshop.com/meteoritesale/wsale24.html http://www.meteoriteshop.com/meteoritesale/wsale25.html http://www.meteoriteshop.com/meteoritesale/wsale21.html http://www.meteoriteshop.com/meteoritesale/wsale23.html In addition I have several hundred more meteorites listed on ebay including some Martians. See my ebay user id AMUNRE I want to sell off some of my ebay items and am into making deals so if you see something in my ebay auctions that interests you email me and maybe we can make a deal on it Thanks for viewing my sale. Sincerely DEAN http://www.meteoriteshop.com AMUNRE on Ebay From marcin at meteoryt.net Thu May 14 04:24:42 2009 From: marcin at meteoryt.net (Marcin Cimala) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:24:42 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Small Hoba wanted References: <065F38393E904D23BCF9DB8F2B7BDF71@Gregor> Message-ID: <009001c9d46d$735f02a0$0d00000a@polandmezrd5i9> A friend asked me for small Hoba. anyone have sample? -----[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-----[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]----- http://www.Meteoryty.pl marcin(at)meteoryty.pl http://www.PolandMET.com marcin(at)meteorite.pl http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM: +48 (793) kosmos --------[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]-------- From darryl at dof3.com Thu May 14 07:34:37 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 07:34:37 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED Human strikes - Listeners Correct Auctioneer About Meteorite History In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0B1FDFAD-CD51-430F-95B7-DCE757591410@dof3.com> Add Thailand's Chiang Khan to the list. A fisherman was struck as reported in the original abstract. By the way, an absolutely superlative Chiang Khan specimen is being offered in this weekend's auction at Heritage. It's so extraordinarily well oriented it looks like an australite (flanged button tektite) without the flange. Check this out.... http://historical.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=6016&Lot_No=41195 On May 13, 2009, at 11:41 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > Hi Paul, > I can think of at least 3 off the top of my head. Of course, > Some people have strange Ideas about what "documented" > means: > 1) The obvious: Sylacauga with a photo of the "victime" > Next to a medical Dr. > 2) Mbali: a boy was struck in the arm after a small stone passed > Through a banana tree (slowing it down to a "safe" speed) > 3) L'Aigle: A coachman was struck(among other things) in this > Thoroughly investigated fall. > Best wishes, Michael > > > >> >> ?There were many letters in response to an interview about > the auction of >> the Garza Stone, a meteorite that hit a house > in Park Forest, Ill., in 2003. >> Listeners were quick to point > out that ? contrary to what the organizer of >> this auction > suggested ? there is at least one documented case of a >> > personbeing hit by a falling rock from outer space.? > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From darryl at dof3.com Thu May 14 07:38:15 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 07:38:15 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED people being hit - Listeners Correct Auctioneer About Meteorite History In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <301FED38-5947-45CC-A912-C37B74A06DD2@dof3.com> Add Thailand's Chiang Khan to the list. A fisherman was struck as reported in the original abstract. By the way, an absolutely superlative Chiang Khan specimen is being offered in this weekend's auction at Heritage. It's so extraordinarily well oriented it looks like an australite (flanged button tektite) without the flange. Check this out.... http://historical.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=6016&Lot_No=41195 On May 13, 2009, at 11:26 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > "Documented" is an interesting concept: > I know of 3 off the top of my head I have > No doubts about: > 1) the obvious: Sylacauga, with Newspaper photo, > A medical Dr., etc. > 2) Mbali - a boy struck in the arm after a very > Small meteorite pierced a bananna tree slowing > It down. > 3) L'Aigle - A carriageman struck > > >> From: Paul >> Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:10:52 -0700 (PDT) >> To: Meteorite List >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Listeners Correct Auctioneer About >> Meteorite History >> >> > Letters: Meteorite, All Things Considered, May 13, >> 2009 > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104104547 > > ?There >> were many letters in response to an interview about > the auction of the Garza >> Stone, a meteorite that hit a house > in Park Forest, Ill., in 2003. Listeners >> were quick to point > out that ? contrary to what the organizer of this auction >> > suggested ? there is at least one documented case of a > personbeing hit by a >> falling rock from outer space.? > > The story commented on is: > > Interviews: Why >> Are Meteorites So Expensive? > All Things Considered, May 12, >> 2009 > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104065594 > > ?Some >> pricey chunks of space rock are among the objects for sale > at a Dallas >> auction house this weekend.? > > Yours, > > Paul H. > > > >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.co >> m > Meteorite-list mailing >> list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listi >> nfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mlblood at cox.net Thu May 14 07:48:33 2009 From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 04:48:33 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED Human strikes - Listeners Correct Auctioneer About Meteorite History In-Reply-To: <0B1FDFAD-CD51-430F-95B7-DCE757591410@dof3.com> Message-ID: Right you are, Michael > From: Darryl Pitt > Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 07:34:37 -0400 > To: Michael Blood > Cc: Paul , Meteorite List > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED Human strikes - Listeners Correct > Auctioneer About Meteorite History > > > > > Add Thailand's Chiang Khan to the list. A fisherman was struck as > reported in the original abstract. > > By the way, an absolutely superlative Chiang Khan specimen is being > offered in this weekend's auction at Heritage. It's so > extraordinarily well oriented it looks like an australite (flanged > button tektite) without the flange. > > Check this out.... > > http://historical.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=6016&Lot_No=41195 > > > > > On May 13, 2009, at 11:41 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > >> Hi Paul, >> I can think of at least 3 off the top of my head. Of course, >> Some people have strange Ideas about what "documented" >> means: >> 1) The obvious: Sylacauga with a photo of the "victime" >> Next to a medical Dr. >> 2) Mbali: a boy was struck in the arm after a small stone passed >> Through a banana tree (slowing it down to a "safe" speed) >> 3) L'Aigle: A coachman was struck(among other things) in this >> Thoroughly investigated fall. >> Best wishes, Michael >> >> >> >>> >>> ?There were many letters in response to an interview about >> the auction of >>> the Garza Stone, a meteorite that hit a house >> in Park Forest, Ill., in 2003. >>> Listeners were quick to point >> out that ? contrary to what the organizer of >>> this auction >> suggested ? there is at least one documented case of a >>> >> personbeing hit by a falling rock from outer space.? >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From info at mcomemeteorite.it Thu May 14 08:17:03 2009 From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:17:03 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions Message-ID: <4a0c0bbf.ab.5d45.491670921@webmaildh6.aruba.it> I have put some auctions on ebay, who want seen go here http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=mcomemeteorite Matteo M come Meteorite Meteoriti info at mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.org Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com From meteoriteshow at free.fr Thu May 14 10:43:58 2009 From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (Meteoriteshow) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:43:58 -0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday Message-ID: <002901c9d4a2$6a5cd8f0$4600a8c0@T42> Dear Listees, Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow They include: 1- SAH 02500 L3 - 34.0g partslice, dimensions: 58x40x7mm. Typical structure of SAH 02500 on the polished cut section, with clasts, nice chondrules and metal flakes... STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE & NO BID YET!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330327727748 2- SAH 02500 L3 - 505.7g - 5 pces, weighing respectively 149.3g + 122.7g + 97.9g + 81.1g + 54.1g. All of them are partially fusion crusted,some of them display quite big chondrules at the surface... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330327727779 3- SAHARAN OC #FB-58-08 - 63.2g Frag, dimensions 49x39x30mm with remnant fusion crust, desert varnished. Probably a L or LL chondrite according to attraction to a magnet, compared with known chondrites. STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE & NO BID YET!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330327727800 4- Sikhote-Alin IRON IIAB - 11.6g oriented individual, dimensions 23x16x8mm. Nice orientation, with "flow lips" behind the shield. STILL AT $1.00 STARTING PRICE & NO BID YET!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330327727823 Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!! Kind regards, Frederic Beroud http://www.meteoriteshow.com IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/) From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com Thu May 14 10:48:03 2009 From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 15:48:03 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED Human strikes - Listeners Correct Auctioneer About Meteorite History In-Reply-To: References: <0B1FDFAD-CD51-430F-95B7-DCE757591410@dof3.com> Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49606A2B@gamma.ssl.atw> Add me to the list too :) - I was clearing a book shelf a couple of weeks ago ,and a 306g NWA fell on my head! (I was using it as a book end!) these things hurt I tell you - I can't imagine what it would feel like to be hit by one doing terminal velocity! .. 3 ft was bad enough. Mark -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Blood Sent: 14 May 2009 12:49 To: Darryl Pitt Cc: Paul; Meteorite List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED Human strikes - Listeners Correct Auctioneer About Meteorite History Right you are, Michael > From: Darryl Pitt > Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 07:34:37 -0400 > To: Michael Blood > Cc: Paul , Meteorite List > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED Human strikes - Listeners Correct > Auctioneer About Meteorite History > > > > > Add Thailand's Chiang Khan to the list. A fisherman was struck as > reported in the original abstract. > > By the way, an absolutely superlative Chiang Khan specimen is being > offered in this weekend's auction at Heritage. It's so > extraordinarily well oriented it looks like an australite (flanged > button tektite) without the flange. > > Check this out.... > > http://historical.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=6016&Lot_No=41195 > > > > > On May 13, 2009, at 11:41 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > >> Hi Paul, >> I can think of at least 3 off the top of my head. Of course, >> Some people have strange Ideas about what "documented" >> means: >> 1) The obvious: Sylacauga with a photo of the "victime" >> Next to a medical Dr. >> 2) Mbali: a boy was struck in the arm after a small stone passed >> Through a banana tree (slowing it down to a "safe" speed) >> 3) L'Aigle: A coachman was struck(among other things) in this >> Thoroughly investigated fall. >> Best wishes, Michael >> >> >> >>> >>> ?There were many letters in response to an interview about >> the auction of >>> the Garza Stone, a meteorite that hit a house >> in Park Forest, Ill., in 2003. >>> Listeners were quick to point >> out that < contrary to what the organizer of >>> this auction >> suggested < there is at least one documented case of a >>> >> personbeing hit by a falling rock from outer space.? >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 From almitt at kconline.com Thu May 14 11:50:13 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:50:13 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED Human strikes - Listeners Correct Auctioneer About Meteorite History In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <03CEC6F861254789837B9330DE957FD8@StarmanPC> Hi Michael and all, I thought the Mbale fall struck a young boy in the head but didn't hurt him. Fairly small stone. --AL Mitterling You wrote: 2) Mbali: a boy was struck in the arm after a small stone passed Through a banana tree (slowing it down to a "safe" speed) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Blood" To: "Darryl Pitt" Cc: "Paul" ; "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED Human strikes - Listeners Correct Auctioneer About Meteorite History Right you are, Michael > From: Darryl Pitt > Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 07:34:37 -0400 > To: Michael Blood > Cc: Paul , Meteorite List > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED Human strikes - Listeners Correct > Auctioneer About Meteorite History > > > > > Add Thailand's Chiang Khan to the list. A fisherman was struck as > reported in the original abstract. > > By the way, an absolutely superlative Chiang Khan specimen is being > offered in this weekend's auction at Heritage. It's so > extraordinarily well oriented it looks like an australite (flanged > button tektite) without the flange. > > Check this out.... > > http://historical.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=6016&Lot_No=41195 > > > > > On May 13, 2009, at 11:41 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > >> Hi Paul, >> I can think of at least 3 off the top of my head. Of course, >> Some people have strange Ideas about what "documented" >> means: >> 1) The obvious: Sylacauga with a photo of the "victime" >> Next to a medical Dr. >> 2) Mbali: a boy was struck in the arm after a small stone passed >> Through a banana tree (slowing it down to a "safe" speed) >> 3) L'Aigle: A coachman was struck(among other things) in this >> Thoroughly investigated fall. >> Best wishes, Michael >> >> >> >>> >>> ?There were many letters in response to an interview about >> the auction of >>> the Garza Stone, a meteorite that hit a house >> in Park Forest, Ill., in 2003. >>> Listeners were quick to point >> out that < contrary to what the organizer of >>> this auction >> suggested < there is at least one documented case of a >>> >> personbeing hit by a falling rock from outer space.? >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From almitt at kconline.com Thu May 14 11:56:51 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:56:51 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: Lafayette Martian In-Reply-To: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49606A2B@gamma.ssl.atw> References: <0B1FDFAD-CD51-430F-95B7-DCE757591410@dof3.com> <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49606A2B@gamma.ssl.atw> Message-ID: Greetings, Anyone interested in a one gram crusted Lafayette specimen please email me off list. Thank-you! --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu May 14 12:05:26 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 14 May 2009 16:05:26 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Toluca Axe? Message-ID: > am being told that ASU has an AXE from Toluca so I > am going to try and find a pic but I have not seen it yet. This one (see JPGEG in private mail)? Sorry for the poor quality but it 's a scanned version of a b&w reprint from 1952! The description says: "An implement known as a barretta, forged from a meteorite in the Village of Xiquipilco. For use, a handle is inserted in the sleeve at the top and the tool is used much as we use a crowbar." Meteorites of Xiquipilco, Mexico - by Dr. H.H. Nininger, Director, American Meteorite Museum, Winslow, Ariz., Photos by Nininger Reprint from Earth Science Digest, November, 1952, Vol. 6, No. 3. Pages 19 to 30, excerpt): The Search for Implements In 1929 I had succeeded in finding a single implement manufactured from meteoritic iron, and we had hoped to discover more on the recent expedition. We continually kept on the alert when tools or implements were in sight, but all were evidently of artificial steel. We had planned to carry on this search through the local blacksmith, but fate seemed to be against us. Xiquipilco is by no means a cultured community. I have not seen, in all of my travels in Mexico, a village that seemed to have absorbed less of civilization. Life is rugged there. And so it was that a murdered man was carried into the office of the "Presidente" about the time we arrived; and it turned out that the blacksmith who was prominent on our list of persons to be visited was not to be interviewed. He it was who had committed the murder. We thought it best that strange people should not be showing too much interest in him on this particular occasion. From majbaermann at web.de Thu May 14 12:27:03 2009 From: majbaermann at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:27:03 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED Human strikes - Listeners CorrectAuctioneer About Meteorite History References: <03CEC6F861254789837B9330DE957FD8@StarmanPC> Message-ID: <1817536896174CCF868855E052C1D54A@thinkcentre> Hi Al & All , - just by chance I disvovered a photo of this boy on Dave's fascinating website: http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/Mbale.htm (scroll down a bit) Best, Matthias ----- Original Message ----- From: "al mitt" To: "Michael Blood" ; "Darryl Pitt" Cc: "Paul" ; "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED Human strikes - Listeners CorrectAuctioneer About Meteorite History Hi Michael and all, I thought the Mbale fall struck a young boy in the head but didn't hurt him. Fairly small stone. --AL Mitterling You wrote: 2) Mbali: a boy was struck in the arm after a small stone passed Through a banana tree (slowing it down to a "safe" speed) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Blood" To: "Darryl Pitt" Cc: "Paul" ; "Meteorite List" Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED Human strikes - Listeners Correct Auctioneer About Meteorite History Right you are, Michael > From: Darryl Pitt > Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 07:34:37 -0400 > To: Michael Blood > Cc: Paul , Meteorite List > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] DOCUMENTED Human strikes - Listeners Correct > Auctioneer About Meteorite History > > > > > Add Thailand's Chiang Khan to the list. A fisherman was struck as > reported in the original abstract. > > By the way, an absolutely superlative Chiang Khan specimen is being > offered in this weekend's auction at Heritage. It's so > extraordinarily well oriented it looks like an australite (flanged > button tektite) without the flange. > > Check this out.... > > http://historical.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=6016&Lot_No=41195 > > > > > On May 13, 2009, at 11:41 PM, Michael Blood wrote: > >> Hi Paul, >> I can think of at least 3 off the top of my head. Of course, >> Some people have strange Ideas about what "documented" >> means: >> 1) The obvious: Sylacauga with a photo of the "victime" >> Next to a medical Dr. >> 2) Mbali: a boy was struck in the arm after a small stone passed >> Through a banana tree (slowing it down to a "safe" speed) >> 3) L'Aigle: A coachman was struck(among other things) in this >> Thoroughly investigated fall. >> Best wishes, Michael >> >> >> >>> >>> ?There were many letters in response to an interview about >> the auction of >>> the Garza Stone, a meteorite that hit a house >> in Park Forest, Ill., in 2003. >>> Listeners were quick to point >> out that < contrary to what the organizer of >>> this auction >> suggested < there is at least one documented case of a >>> >> personbeing hit by a falling rock from outer space.? >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Thu May 14 12:41:30 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:41:30 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions Message-ID: <4A0C49BA.9090002@meteoritesusa.com> Hi Listees, Recently there's been more interest in the Tunguska event. More scientists are trying to explain it, and some are even looking at a lake near the blasts epicenter believing that this is the missing crater. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6239334.stm Photo of Lake Cheko: http://a52.g.akamaitech.net/f/52/827/1d/www.space.com/images/070626_lake_cheko_02.jpg A witness in Vanovara (36 Miles SE of the epicenter) said in O. Richard Norton's "Rocks From Space" "The crash was followed by noise like stones falling from the sky, or guns firing." and "when I lay on the ground I covered my head because I was afraid that stones might hit it." We all know too well that witness reports aren't ideal information but useful anyway. But, how would this person know to say that there was a "noise like stones falling" unless that were the case? Or did the witnesses report become tainted after countless interviews? How many times was this witness interviewed? I know people have searched for meteorites under and around the epicenter area. But what if this was a stony meteoroid, and the explosion blasted meteorite pieces 30-50 miles away. The devastation this explosion caused is evidence that it was one hell of a blast and was on par with a nuclear explosion. YouTube Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiXpp-i442s Donald Yoemans (JPL) states in the History Channel video that this blast was 15 megatons of equivalent energy "roughly 1000 times that of the Hiroshima blast." VERY COOL ARTIST RENDERING: http://svidea.us/misha/image/tunguska2.jpg Photos of Devastation: http://astro.wsu.edu/worthey/astro/html/im-meteor/tunguska-photo.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Tunguska.png http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images1/tunguska3.jpg http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tu3.gif Artist Rendering: http://aura.gaia.com/photos/34/338910/large/tunguska-1.jpg Area Map: http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tunguska1.gif Blast Damage Area: http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tu2.gif When you factor in all this information, how come people aren't looking 30-40 miles away for debris from this blast. If it was as powerful as they say (as evidenced by the downed trees and other devastation) wouldn't it make perfect sense that area around the blast would be completely void of meteorites as is the case? Having said that, wouldn't it be prudent to look further away from the blasts epicenter for fragments? How far will a blast such as that throw debris? If a Navy destroyer can launch a huge shell a hundred miles using a few pounds of gunpowder, how far can a meteoroid blast such as this launch stone fragments? Bomb squad techs and investigators will be the first to tell you that there's always something left over from a blast no matter how powerful. Pieces get thrown sometimes miles from the epicenter of powerful blast. In the case of Tunguska this blast was nuclear powerful! Yes a lot of the mass would have been melted and disintegrated but, how likely is it really that the blast would make ALL trace of the meteoroid disappear? Could there be meteorite pieces within a 30-50 mile ring around the epicenter? -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Thu May 14 12:49:02 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 09:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions Message-ID: <24621.58991.qm@web46414.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I recall reading something recently that stated there was a mass at the bottom of the lake you mentioned that may be remains of the meteorite... I think it was also on TV. Greg C. --- On Thu, 5/14/09, Meteorites USA wrote: > From: Meteorites USA > Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions > To: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" > Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 12:41 PM > Hi Listees, > > Recently there's been more interest in the Tunguska event. > More scientists are trying to explain it, and some are even > looking at a lake near the blasts epicenter believing that > this is the missing crater. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6239334.stm > > Photo of Lake Cheko: http://a52.g.akamaitech.net/f/52/827/1d/www.space.com/images/070626_lake_cheko_02.jpg > > A witness in Vanovara (36 Miles SE of the epicenter) said > in O. Richard Norton's "Rocks From Space" > > "The crash was followed by noise like stones falling from > the sky, or guns firing." > > and > > "when I lay on the ground I covered my head because I was > afraid that stones might hit it." > > We all know too well that witness reports aren't ideal > information but useful anyway. But, how would this person > know to say that there was a "noise like stones falling" > unless that were the case? Or did the witnesses report > become tainted after countless interviews? How many times > was this witness interviewed? > > I know people have searched for meteorites under and around > the epicenter area. But what if this was a stony meteoroid, > and the explosion blasted meteorite pieces 30-50 miles away. > The devastation this explosion caused is evidence that it > was one hell of a blast and was on par with a nuclear > explosion. > > YouTube Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiXpp-i442s > > Donald Yoemans (JPL) states in the History Channel video > that this blast was 15 megatons of equivalent energy > "roughly 1000 times that of the Hiroshima blast." > > VERY COOL ARTIST RENDERING: http://svidea.us/misha/image/tunguska2.jpg > > Photos of Devastation: > http://astro.wsu.edu/worthey/astro/html/im-meteor/tunguska-photo.jpg > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Tunguska.png > http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images1/tunguska3.jpg > http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tu3.gif > Artist Rendering: http://aura.gaia.com/photos/34/338910/large/tunguska-1.jpg > Area Map: http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tunguska1.gif > Blast Damage Area: http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tu2.gif > > When you factor in all this information, how come people > aren't looking 30-40 miles away for debris from this blast. > If it was as powerful as they say (as evidenced by the > downed trees and other devastation) wouldn't it make perfect > sense that area around the blast would be completely void of > meteorites as is the case? > > Having said that, wouldn't it be prudent to look further > away from the blasts epicenter for fragments? How far will a > blast such as that throw debris? If a Navy destroyer can > launch a huge shell a hundred miles using a few pounds of > gunpowder, how far can a meteoroid blast such as this launch > stone fragments? > > Bomb squad techs and investigators will be the first to > tell you that there's always something left over from a > blast no matter how powerful. Pieces get thrown sometimes > miles from the epicenter of powerful blast. In the case of > Tunguska this blast was nuclear powerful! Yes a lot of the > mass would have been melted and disintegrated but, how > likely is it really that the blast would make ALL trace of > the meteoroid disappear? > > Could there be meteorite pieces within a 30-50 mile ring > around the epicenter? > > -- Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Thu May 14 12:47:40 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 14 May 2009 16:47:40 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Documented Human strikes Message-ID: Hello Matthias and List, > http://www.fallingrocks.com/Collections/Mbale.htm The same picture but black & white can also be found on p. 247 of an article in Meteoritics! => The Mbale meteorite shower, Meteoritics 29-2, Mar 1994, pp. 246-254 <= The text says: "This young boy is the first to survive the common fear of a meteorite fall, that is, to be hit on the head. The meteorite, No. 23 weighing 3.6 grams was slowed down by the leaves of a banana plant." .. and, the incident was mentioned a in Sky & Tel. article but there is no picture of the boy - Sky & Telescope, June 1993, pp. 96-97: The Day That Rained Stones "As far as we know, no one was injured during the falls - incredible considering the dozens of meteorites that must have rained down on that densely populated area. A 4-gram fragment did hit a boy from Doko on the head, but he was not hurt." Best wishes, Bernd From cdtucson at cox.net Thu May 14 13:14:03 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:14:03 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID In-Reply-To: <003d01c9d43b$eb3926c0$c1ab7440$@kashuba@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20090514131403.DYBGC.206728.imail@fed1rmwml43> Hi John , list, With all due respect, I recently added a few pictures which verify that IMHO this is A shape that is known in antiquity Meteoric iron of Naukratis Egypt C. BC400-400AD. Which is interesting because the lady was guessing that she recalled it was from Egypt but she could not remember for sure. This link was sent to me by Piper Hollier and as you can see it is a match to a hoe, of coarse a hand held AXE would not require both sides of the hoe as does the example pictured But is the shape correct? You be the judge! . see pictures again, The axe passed the nickel allergy test with flying colors. (mainly bright strawberry red). Thanks Carl http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030472 at N07/?saved=1 .---- Kashuba wrote: > List, > > This is not the shape of a tool made to hack, throw, push or pull. The shape of the "blade" and the location of mass is wrong. Further, a people that was short of iron would not have made an implement with a solid handle. > > I suggest this is a bar scarffed to be joined by welding to a similarly scarffed bar to form a corner for some structural application. It might even be part of such a joint that has failed and has been cut away from reusable stock. > > The nickel test should be enlightening. > > - John > > John Kashuba > Ontario, California > > -----Original Message----- > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Peter Scherff > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM > To: cdtucson at cox.net; 'meteoritelist' > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > > Hi Carl, > When a meteorite is heated and worked any widmanstatten pattern is usually destroyed. So the lack of a pattern won?t prove anything. > I am somewhat skeptical as to your objects origin. My skepticism arises out of the shape of the handle. From the photos the handle portion appears to have a round cross section. That makes me think that the object was forged from an iron rod. > > Thanks, > > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: cdtucson at cox.net [mailto:cdtucson at cox.net] > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:43 PM > To: Peter Scherff; meteoritelist > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > > Peter, > I purchased this at an estate sale in Tucson and all the lady told me was that > her late husband told her it was made of "meteor" and was a weapon from Egypt > used for killing and not for kitchen use. ( good words to help sell? Maybe!) > I deal in antiques so, I know there is always a story but the story does not > always match the facts. I did try to acid etch the polished end and it dulls > evenly except is small circles where it stays very shiny. No Widmanstatten or > Newman lines. It still has a decent edge as well. > I am being told that ASU has an AXE from Toluca so I am going to try and find a > pic but I have not seen it yet. Thank you. > Carl > > ---- Peter Scherff wrote: > > Hi Carl, > > The photos of the iron object you posted are interesting. Perhaps we could give you more information if you could tell us why you think that the object is prehistoric, why it is meteoritic and why it is an ax? > > Thanks, > > Peter Scherff > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of cdtucson at cox.net > > Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM > > To: Jack Schrader; meteoritelist > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > > > > Thank you Jack, > > Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. > > > > ---- Jack Schrader wrote: > > > > > > Hello Carl. My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite. This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776. This meteoritic iron was well known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools. Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals. Best wishes, Jack > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: "cdtucson at cox.net" > > To: meteoritelist > > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:21:33 PM > > Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > > > > List, > > Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl > > > > > List, > > > Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. > > > Thank you. > > > > > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030472 at N07/?saved=1 > > > > > > Carl Esparza > > > IMCA 5829 > > > Meteoritemax > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From rsvp321 at hotmail.com Thu May 14 14:31:01 2009 From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 14:31:01 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID In-Reply-To: <20090514131403.DYBGC.206728.imail@fed1rmwml43> References: <003d01c9d43b$eb3926c0$c1ab7440$@kashuba@verizon.net> <20090514131403.DYBGC.206728.imail@fed1rmwml43> Message-ID: Can we see again the pictures which you indicated a fusion crust and flow lines? Cheers, Pete ---------------------------------------- > Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:14:03 -0700 > From: cdtucson at cox.net > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; peterscherff at rcn.com; mary.kashuba at verizon.net > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > > Hi John , list, > With all due respect, I recently added a few pictures which verify that IMHO this is A shape that is known in antiquity Meteoric iron of Naukratis Egypt C. BC400-400AD. Which is interesting because the lady was guessing that she recalled it was from Egypt but she could not remember for sure. This link was sent to me by Piper Hollier and as you can see it is a match to a hoe, of coarse a hand held AXE would not require both sides of the hoe as does the example pictured But is the shape correct? You be the judge! . see pictures again, The axe passed the nickel allergy test with flying colors. (mainly bright strawberry red). Thanks > Carl > http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030472 at N07/?saved=1 > > > > .---- Kashuba wrote: >> List, >> >> This is not the shape of a tool made to hack, throw, push or pull. The shape of the "blade" and the location of mass is wrong. Further, a people that was short of iron would not have made an implement with a solid handle. >> >> I suggest this is a bar scarffed to be joined by welding to a similarly scarffed bar to form a corner for some structural application. It might even be part of such a joint that has failed and has been cut away from reusable stock. >> >> The nickel test should be enlightening. >> >> - John >> >> John Kashuba >> Ontario, California >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Peter Scherff >> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM >> To: cdtucson at cox.net; 'meteoritelist' >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID >> >> Hi Carl, >> When a meteorite is heated and worked any widmanstatten pattern is usually destroyed. So the lack of a pattern won?t prove anything. >> I am somewhat skeptical as to your objects origin. My skepticism arises out of the shape of the handle. From the photos the handle portion appears to have a round cross section. That makes me think that the object was forged from an iron rod. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Peter >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: cdtucson at cox.net [mailto:cdtucson at cox.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:43 PM >> To: Peter Scherff; meteoritelist >> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID >> >> Peter, >> I purchased this at an estate sale in Tucson and all the lady told me was that >> her late husband told her it was made of "meteor" and was a weapon from Egypt >> used for killing and not for kitchen use. ( good words to help sell? Maybe!) >> I deal in antiques so, I know there is always a story but the story does not >> always match the facts. I did try to acid etch the polished end and it dulls >> evenly except is small circles where it stays very shiny. No Widmanstatten or >> Newman lines. It still has a decent edge as well. >> I am being told that ASU has an AXE from Toluca so I am going to try and find a >> pic but I have not seen it yet. Thank you. >> Carl >> >> ---- Peter Scherff wrote: >>> Hi Carl, >>> The photos of the iron object you posted are interesting. Perhaps we could give you more information if you could tell us why you think that the object is prehistoric, why it is meteoritic and why it is an ax? >>> Thanks, >>> Peter Scherff >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of cdtucson at cox.net >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM >>> To: Jack Schrader; meteoritelist >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID >>> >>> Thank you Jack, >>> Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. >>> >>> ---- Jack Schrader wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello Carl. My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite. This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776. This meteoritic iron was well known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools. Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals. Best wishes, Jack >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ---- >>> From: "cdtucson at cox.net" >>> To: meteoritelist >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:21:33 PM >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID >>> >>> List, >>> Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl >>> >>>> List, >>>> Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. >>>> Thank you. >>>> >>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030472 at N07/?saved=1 >>>> >>>> Carl Esparza >>>> IMCA 5829 >>>> Meteoritemax >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ One at a time or all at once? Get updates from your friends in one place. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660827 From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com Thu May 14 14:42:02 2009 From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 11:42:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD ; NWA carbonaceous Message-ID: <964112.68475.qm@web45404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hello List, For sale $1k complete CV3 including shipping cost. http://www.flickr.com/photos/21003651 at N03/ My best Aziz From mccartney at blackbearddata.com Thu May 14 14:46:20 2009 From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:46:20 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - Paying the Piper at West Message-ID: <2ff4a935289145229840d1a5c115c784@ucv1.vhostdns.com> At the hunt in West, I searched the property across from Adair's place. Lori's place. The owners were getting irritated with hunters after a while, so I tried to sooth nerves and volunteered my services to help a bit of trouble on the property. On top of being an engineer, cartographer, and magician; I'm also a beekeeper. They had a feral hive in the abandoned camper near the ranch equipment and wanted it gone. Greg Hupe noticed this hive and told a few people. Anyway, I was back at West yet again last week, as the Last Man Standing out there. The hunt was fruitful, while no Ash Creek was found, a new 225g stone came to light from another fall, but more on that later. Anyway, to pay the piper for our permission to hunt, I cut out the hive and transplanted it into one of my hive boxes. For those who care to see me get stung a few times, here's the first video of 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpbs0go2KAs From thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr Thu May 14 14:51:38 2009 From: thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr (Philippe Thomas) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 20:51:38 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Meteoritica - Meteorite Mag - 2 complete years Message-ID: <14830989.81386.1242327098090.JavaMail.www@wwinf1d36> Dear List, We have some auctions ending soon: 2 complete years of Meteorite Magazine (2007/2008). For those are interested, please have a look here: http://shop.ebay.fr/merchant/stellardust I have also another user ID on ebay.fr, please have a look here: http://shop.ebay.fr/merchant/meteoritica-france Best wishes, Philippe and Lea www.meteoritica.com http://stores.shop.ebay.fr/Meteoritica From cdtucson at cox.net Thu May 14 17:21:41 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:21:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090514172141.790YV.301572.imail@fed1rmwml36> Pete, Those pictures with crust and flow lines were not related to this axe. They were shown by mistake. Sorry. Carl Esparza IMCA 5829 ---- Pete Pete wrote: > > > Can we see again the pictures which you indicated a fusion crust and flow lines? > > Cheers, > Pete > > > > ---------------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:14:03 -0700 > > From: cdtucson at cox.net > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; peterscherff at rcn.com; mary.kashuba at verizon.net > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > > > > Hi John , list, > > With all due respect, I recently added a few pictures which verify that IMHO this is A shape that is known in antiquity Meteoric iron of Naukratis Egypt C. BC400-400AD. Which is interesting because the lady was guessing that she recalled it was from Egypt but she could not remember for sure. This link was sent to me by Piper Hollier and as you can see it is a match to a hoe, of coarse a hand held AXE would not require both sides of the hoe as does the example pictured But is the shape correct? You be the judge! . see pictures again, The axe passed the nickel allergy test with flying colors. (mainly bright strawberry red). Thanks > > Carl > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030472 at N07/?saved=1 > > > > > > > > .---- Kashuba wrote: > >> List, > >> > >> This is not the shape of a tool made to hack, throw, push or pull. The shape of the "blade" and the location of mass is wrong. Further, a people that was short of iron would not have made an implement with a solid handle. > >> > >> I suggest this is a bar scarffed to be joined by welding to a similarly scarffed bar to form a corner for some structural application. It might even be part of such a joint that has failed and has been cut away from reusable stock. > >> > >> The nickel test should be enlightening. > >> > >> - John > >> > >> John Kashuba > >> Ontario, California > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Peter Scherff > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM > >> To: cdtucson at cox.net; 'meteoritelist' > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > >> > >> Hi Carl, > >> When a meteorite is heated and worked any widmanstatten pattern is usually destroyed. So the lack of a pattern won?t prove anything. > >> I am somewhat skeptical as to your objects origin. My skepticism arises out of the shape of the handle. From the photos the handle portion appears to have a round cross section. That makes me think that the object was forged from an iron rod. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Peter > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: cdtucson at cox.net [mailto:cdtucson at cox.net] > >> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:43 PM > >> To: Peter Scherff; meteoritelist > >> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > >> > >> Peter, > >> I purchased this at an estate sale in Tucson and all the lady told me was that > >> her late husband told her it was made of "meteor" and was a weapon from Egypt > >> used for killing and not for kitchen use. ( good words to help sell? Maybe!) > >> I deal in antiques so, I know there is always a story but the story does not > >> always match the facts. I did try to acid etch the polished end and it dulls > >> evenly except is small circles where it stays very shiny. No Widmanstatten or > >> Newman lines. It still has a decent edge as well. > >> I am being told that ASU has an AXE from Toluca so I am going to try and find a > >> pic but I have not seen it yet. Thank you. > >> Carl > >> > >> ---- Peter Scherff wrote: > >>> Hi Carl, > >>> The photos of the iron object you posted are interesting. Perhaps we could give you more information if you could tell us why you think that the object is prehistoric, why it is meteoritic and why it is an ax? > >>> Thanks, > >>> Peter Scherff > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of cdtucson at cox.net > >>> Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:38 PM > >>> To: Jack Schrader; meteoritelist > >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > >>> > >>> Thank you Jack, > >>> Does anyone have any photos of Toluca tools they could share? Any other thoughts about Toluca as a sour se of this axe? If from Toluca would that make this a possible Mayan or Aztec culture or would you simply say Pre-Columbian artifact? Thank you. > >>> > >>> ---- Jack Schrader wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Hello Carl. My guess would be that it is a Toluca or Xiquipilco meteorite. This meteorite is known by both names as it was discovered in the Toluca Valley of Xiquipilco Mexico in 1776. This meteoritic iron was well known to the early settlers in the area and they used the iron they found to make many of their common everyday tools. Nininger documented a number of tools made from this same iron when he visited the area and began collecting the meteorites from the locals. Best wishes, Jack > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ---- > >>> From: "cdtucson at cox.net" > >>> To: meteoritelist > >>> Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:21:33 PM > >>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Iron Meteorite Axe ID > >>> > >>> List, > >>> Please forgive me. I had some old photos I forgot to delete. What I am looking for is the correct age and culture of this antique Axe made of meteorite iron. Thanks Carl > >>> > >>>> List, > >>>> Can anyone help me identify the age and origin of this meteorite Iron Axe. Weighs 3.5 pounds. and is over 6 inches long. > >>>> Thank you. > >>>> > >>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13030472 at N07/?saved=1 > >>>> > >>>> Carl Esparza > >>>> IMCA 5829 > >>>> Meteoritemax > >>>> ______________________________________________ > >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >>> ______________________________________________ > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>> ______________________________________________ > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > >> > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > _________________________________________________________________ > One at a time or all at once? Get updates from your friends in one place. > http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660827 From almitt at kconline.com Thu May 14 17:59:03 2009 From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:59:03 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Toluca Axe? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8422A51DA5204DE5B9425EDA431C5DDF@StarmanPC> Hi Bernd, Not following the thread or who wrote about the Toluca Axe but I have a nice photo of the axe from ASU. Dr. Moore mentioned that the material was probably a recent fabrication when Nininger went down on his visit. Who ever started this thread contact me. --AL Mitterling ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:05 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Toluca Axe? >> am being told that ASU has an AXE from Toluca so I >> am going to try and find a pic but I have not seen it yet. > > > This one (see JPGEG in private mail)? Sorry for the poor quality but > it 's a scanned version of a b&w reprint from 1952! The description > says: > > "An implement known as a barretta, forged from a meteorite in the > Village of Xiquipilco. For use, a handle is inserted in the sleeve at > the top and the tool is used much as we use a crowbar." > > > > Meteorites of Xiquipilco, Mexico - by Dr. H.H. Nininger, Director, > American Meteorite Museum, Winslow, Ariz., Photos by Nininger > > Reprint from Earth Science Digest, November, > 1952, Vol. 6, No. 3. Pages 19 to 30, excerpt): > > The Search for Implements > > In 1929 I had succeeded in finding a single implement manufactured > from meteoritic iron, and we had hoped to discover more on the recent > expedition. We continually kept on the alert when tools or implements > were in sight, but all were evidently of artificial steel. > We had planned to carry on this search through the local blacksmith, but > fate seemed to be against us. Xiquipilco is by no means a cultured > community. > I have not seen, in all of my travels in Mexico, a village that seemed to > have > absorbed less of civilization. Life is rugged there. And so it was that a > murdered > man was carried into the office of the "Presidente" about the time we > arrived; > and it turned out that the blacksmith who was prominent on our list of > persons > to be visited was not to be interviewed. He it was who had committed the > murder. > We thought it best that strange people should not be showing too much > interest > in him on this particular occasion. > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > From cynapse at charter.net Thu May 14 19:38:49 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 18:38:49 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Star stuff In-Reply-To: <2ff4a935289145229840d1a5c115c784@ucv1.vhostdns.com> References: <2ff4a935289145229840d1a5c115c784@ucv1.vhostdns.com> Message-ID: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090513234218.htm Spitzer Catches Star Cooking Up Comet Crystals ScienceDaily (May 14, 2009) ? Scientists have long wondered how tiny silicate crystals, which need sizzling high temperatures to form, have found their way into frozen comets, born in the deep freeze of the solar system's outer edges. The crystals would have begun as non-crystallized silicate particles, part of the mix of gas and dust from which the solar system developed. A team of astronomers believes they have found a new explanation for both where and how these crystals may have been created, by using NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope to observe the growing pains of a young, sun-like star. Their study results, which appear in the May 14 issue of Nature, provide new insight into the formation of planets and comets. The researchers from Germany, Hungary and the Netherlands found that silicate appears to have been transformed into crystalline form by an outburst from a star. They detected the infrared signature of silicate crystals on the disk of dust and gas surrounding the star EX Lupi during one of its frequent flare-ups, or outbursts, seen by Spitzer in April 2008. These crystals were not present in Spitzer's previous observations of the star's disk during one of its quiet periods. "We believe that we have observed, for the first time, ongoing crystal formation," said one of the paper's authors, Attila Juhasz of the Max-Planck Institute for Astronomy in Heidelberg, Germany. "We think that the crystals were formed by thermal annealing of small particles on the surface layer of the star's inner disk by heat from the outburst. This is a completely new scenario about how this material could be created." Annealing is a process in which a material is heated to a certain temperature at which some of its bonds break and then re-form, changing the material's physical properties. It is one way that silicate dust can be transformed into crystalline form. Scientists previously had considered two different possible scenarios in which annealing could create the silicate crystals found in comets and young stars' disks. In one scenario, long exposure to heat from an infant star might anneal some of the silicate dust inside the disk's center. In the other, shock waves induced by a large body within the disk might heat dust grains suddenly to the right temperature to crystallize them, after which the crystals would cool nearly as quickly. What Juhasz and his colleagues found at EX Lupi didn't fit either of the earlier theories. "We concluded that this is a third way in which silicate crystals may be formed with annealing, one not considered before," said the paper's lead author, Peter Abraham of the Hungarian Academy of Sciences' Konkoly Observatory, Budapest, Hungary. EX Lupi is a young star, possibly similar to our sun four or five billion years ago. Every few years, it experiences outbursts, or eruptions, that astronomers think are the result of the star gathering up mass that has accumulated in its surrounding disk. These flare-ups vary in intensity, with really big eruptions occurring every 50 years or so. The researchers observed EX Lupi with Spitzer's infrared spectrograph in April 2008. Although the star was beginning to fade from the peak of a major outburst detected in January, it was still 30 times brighter than when it was quiet. When they compared this new view of the erupting star with Spitzer measurements made in 2005 before the eruption began, they found significant changes. In 2005, the silicate on the surface of the star's disk appeared to be in the form of amorphous grains of dust. In 2008, the spectrum showed the presence of crystalline silicate on top of amorphous dust. The crystals appear to be forsterite, a material often found in comets and in protoplanetary disks. The crystals also appear hot, evidence that they were created in a high-temperature process, but not by shock heating. If that were the case, they would already be cool. "At outburst, EX Lupi became about 100 times more luminous," said Juhasz. "Crystals formed in the surface layer of the disk but just at the distance from the star where the temperature was high enough to anneal the silicate--about 1,000 Kelvin (1,340 degrees Fahrenheit)--but still lower than 1,500 Kelvin (2,240 degrees Fahrenheit). Above that, the dust grains will evaporate." The radius of this crystal formation zone, the researchers note, is comparable to that of the terrestrial-planet region in the solar system. "These observations show, for the first time, the actual production of crystalline silicates like those found in comets and meteorites in our own solar system," said Spitzer Project Scientist Michael Werner of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. "So what we see in comets today may have been produced by repeated bursts of energy when the sun was young." JPL manages the Spitzer Space Telescope mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Science operations are conducted at the Spitzer Science Center at the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. Caltech manages JPL for NASA. More information about Spitzer is at http://www.spitzer.caltech.edu/spitzer and http://www.nasa.gov/spitzer . From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Thu May 14 20:33:13 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:33:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - May 13, 2009 Message-ID: <200905150033.RAA16850@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES May 13, 2009 o Zumba Crater: Fresh 3-Km Crater with Impressive Ejecta and Ray Pattern http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_003608_1510 o Landforms on the South Polar Residual Cap http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012941_0930 o Scoured Bedrock on the Floor of Eos Chasma http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012940_1655 o Thawing Richardson Crater Dunes http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012774_1080 o Pit Crater Chain South of Arsia Mons http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011677_1655 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. From romanj at sympatico.ca Thu May 14 20:35:57 2009 From: romanj at sympatico.ca (Roman Jirasek) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 20:35:57 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - Paying the Piper at West References: <2ff4a935289145229840d1a5c115c784@ucv1.vhostdns.com> Message-ID: You crack me up MT! Can't wait to see the rest of the video. By the way, it was great hunting with you at the Buzzard Coulee. Cheers, Roman Jirasek ----- Original Message ----- From: "McCartney Taylor" To: Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:46 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - Paying the Piper at West > At the hunt in West, I searched the property across from Adair's place. > Lori's place. > > The owners were getting irritated with hunters after a while, so I tried > to sooth nerves and volunteered my services to help a bit of trouble on > the property. > > On top of being an engineer, cartographer, and magician; I'm also a > beekeeper. They had a feral hive in the abandoned camper near the ranch > equipment and wanted it gone. Greg Hupe noticed this hive and told a few > people. > > Anyway, I was back at West yet again last week, as the Last Man Standing > out there. The hunt was fruitful, while no Ash Creek was found, a new 225g > stone came to light from another fall, but more on that later. > > Anyway, to pay the piper for our permission to hunt, I cut out the hive > and transplanted it into one of my hive boxes. > > For those who care to see me get stung a few times, here's the first video > of 3. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpbs0go2KAs > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Thu May 14 20:52:01 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 17:52:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Garza/Nininger Items and Information Message-ID: <776648.7190.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear List Members, Please note the links to articles on the famous Garza Stone meteorite. This stone will be sold at auction this weekend so if you are interested, this may be your last opportunity to own this piece of History. The Nininger Estate items are ending right now. See them at this link: Link To Nininger Items Ending At Auction Over The Next Hour: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ Chigicago Tribune articles: Meteorite chunk that hit home to be sold http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-talk-meteoritemay12,0,1297189.story Meteorite that damaged Ill. home to be auctioned: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-il-meteoriteauction,0,5305233.story Southtown Star article -- This is a good piece with a recent interview with Noe Garza: Park Forest space rock homeless, up for auction http://www.southtownstar.com/news/1570994,051309pfmeteorite.article Dallas article: Meteorite from 2003 headed to auction: http://www.timesoftheinternet.com/73237.html NPR - All Things Considered: Why Are Meteorites So Expensive? http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104065594 Letters: Meteorite http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104104547 Link to Garza Stone In Heritage Auction - Great Opportunity To Purchase This Historic Item: http://historical.ha.com/common/view_item.php?SaleNo=6016&LotIdNo=32001&txtSearch=&hdnSearch=true Best Regards, Adam From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com Thu May 14 21:54:34 2009 From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 21:54:34 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Solar meteorite Message-ID: Since working on the NWA 5000 thin section over a year ago I have worked with quite a number of lunar slides. I have always been primarily interested in the glass. My most recent effort is NWA 4483 Lunar feldspathic granulitic imapactite. It has a lot of glass. It is nearly 85% isotropic glass, (rough estimate). Norbrt Classen and I plan on an up coming article for Meteorite Times on it. My point is none of the lunar glass I have examined has well defined solar wind vesicles like NWA 5000. When sharing micrographs or just "talking meteorites," I am surprised at how few people are aware of this unique feature in NWA 5000. It's taken me looking at the lunar glass of many samples to give me an appreciation of just how cool NWA 5000 really is. It the closest thing to owning a "Solar Meteorite". Real trapped solar wind in little bubbles!!! If you are interested in checking out the solar wind vesicle photos please go to Meteorite Times back issues and select august 2008, then go to Micro Visions in the menu on the left. http://www.meteorite-times.com/back_issues.htm I have no NWA 5000 material for sale so I am not promoting anything, just sharing a cool observation and wondering if there are any other Lunar meteorites with this same phenomenon. Tom Phillips **************Recession-proof vacation ideas. Find free things to do in the U.S. (http://travel.aol.com/travel-ideas/domestic/national-tourism-week?ncid=emlcntustrav00000002) From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Thu May 14 22:09:38 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 22:09:38 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 15, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_15_2009.html __________________________ **************Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after instant savings! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222627952x1201458914/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214819460%3B36680227%3Bi) From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri May 15 06:21:19 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 15 May 2009 10:21:19 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Sky & Telescope, June 2009 and Greg Redfern Message-ID: Hello Folks, Just a heads-up: There is an article about NASA's Return to the Moon / Lunar Fireworks written by list member Greg Redfern. So get your copy at the newsstand if you're not subscribed to S & T!. In the News Notes section you'll find a short article + photo about the stolen meteorite that was found and given back 41 years later! .. and much, much more that is worth reading! Best wishes, Bernd From meteoritics at gmail.com Fri May 15 07:07:32 2009 From: meteoritics at gmail.com (Bill Hall) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 04:07:32 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Solar meteorite Message-ID: <883a36d30905150407j5f97969fg6b7531e481e984a9@mail.gmail.com> I love XPOL pics! Nice ones, also you have the infamous bubble with the #7 on it. I saw this on the Coast to Coast website, PROOF of alien life! Nice work, thanks, Bill Hall From anitawestlake at att.net Fri May 15 07:35:09 2009 From: anitawestlake at att.net (Anita Westlake) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 04:35:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 15, 2009 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <760431.63491.qm@web83814.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Chondrulicious! Anita ----- Original Message ---- From: "SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com" To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:09:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 15, 2009 http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_15_2009.html __________________________? **************Dell Mini Netbooks: Great deals starting at $299 after instant savings! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222627952x1201458914/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B214819460%3B36680227%3Bi) ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritics at gmail.com Fri May 15 07:59:18 2009 From: meteoritics at gmail.com (Bill Hall) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 04:59:18 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] New Meteorite CD ROM project Message-ID: <883a36d30905150459w62a969dfq9ed75ce69e53297d@mail.gmail.com> Hello List, I'm thinking I would like to include some of your meteorite stories, and experiences in a book project I'm working on. The book is about meteorites and meteorite hunting for the beginner. My Idea is to have a section on meteorite hunters and dealers provided by list members. There are a few win win scenarios to this Idea: 1st having a book with input from the list will hopefully prevent it from the cruel world of harsh reviews. #2 It would surly be a better compilation with every ones input. #3 whoever gets a page in the book will surly want to have a copy! Everyone in the book will share it with friends who will possibly want a copy. You get the Idea. What I propose is that everyone who wants to be in the book gets 1 page to use as he or she sees fit. Use it to express anything you like about meteorites. You may even use it for an add if you wish, promote your business, or tell us about your 1st meteorite, your 1st find, your 1 st thin section, your trip to Tucson, etc. ANYTHING about meteorites will do nicely. The book will be on CD ROM only (at this time at least), as the content, and all the color photos It will contain would drive the cost WAY up, therefore you may put pictures on your page as well. I have a great start on the project already, and have an award winning writer and editor to help out as well. The CD will be self published, and marketed, so It will for sure happen. Another Thought, if everyone were to contribute a fee for their page We could get the project done way sooner as costs for this will be in the thousands to publish. It would be good advertising for the dealers.... Just wanted to get some input on this, nothing is written in stone, except I will be publishing a book on CD ROM in the next year or so...... please let me know if your interested, or have any other input, Thanks, Bill Hall From bristolia at yahoo.com Fri May 15 08:39:48 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 05:39:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Another Reason That Meteorites Disappear Message-ID: <572888.24924.qm@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Friends, I hear a lot references made to meteorites disappearing after they fall to Earth because thy are destroyed by weathering. Bioturbation is another process that causes them to disappear relatively rapidly, within years from the ground surface is bioturbation. The churning of the upper horizons by animals and plants will caused large objects, whether they be prehistoric and historic artifacts, meteorites, modern bricks and concrete pieces, and so forth, to gradually ?sink? into the ground. Objects will sink to the depth at which the churning of the ground by bioturbation ceases to modify the soil. This forms a buried layer of stones and other objects called a ?carpedolith? or ?stone-layer?. When a carpedolith is exposed in a two dimensional outcrop, as in the sides of an artificial excavation, stream cutbank, or roadcut, it is called a ?stone line?. In areas where plant and animals rapidly churn the soil to significant depth, meteorites will diappear from the ground surface long before they are destroyed by terrestrial weathering processes. Depending on how intense the bioturbation is and the size of the meteorite, this can happen in a matter of decades, even years. Some references are: Johnson, D. L.. J. E. J. Domier, and D. N. Johnson, 2005, Reflections on the Nature of Soil and Its Biomantle. Annals of the Association of American Geographers. vol. 95, no. 1, pp. 11?31 http://www.d.umn.edu/~pfarrell/Soils/SCIENCE%20articles/Soil%20as%20Biomantle.pdf http://ltse.env.duke.edu/files/ltse/publications/Johnson_DL2005%20reflections%20on%20soil.pdf Meysman, F. J. R., J. J. Middelburg and C. H.R. Heip, 2006, Bioturbation: a fresh look at Darwin's last idea. Trends in Ecology and Evolution. vol. 21, no. 12, pp. 688-695. http://194.171.24.200/ppages/jmiddelburg/downloads/1/Meysman_tree.pdf Frolking, T. A. and B. T. Lepper, Geomorphic and Pedogenic Evidence for Bioturbation of Artifacts at a Multicomponent Site in Licking County, Ohio, U.S.A. Geoarchaeology. vol. 16, no. 3, pp. 243?262. http://www.denison.edu/academics/departments/geosciences/munsonsprng_geoarch_2001.pdf Johnson, D. L., C.L. Balek, and R.J. Schaetzl, 2005, Stonelayers (stone-lines) in Soils: A priori assumed to be basal parts of biomantles. Geological Society of America Abstracts with Programs vol. 37, No. 5, p. 77 http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/responses/2005NC/121.ppt Animation on Dynamic Denudation/Biomantle Evolution https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jdomier/www/temp/biomantle.swf Yours, Paul H. From cynapse at charter.net Fri May 15 11:11:26 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:11:26 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Another Reason That Meteorites Disappear In-Reply-To: <572888.24924.qm@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <572888.24924.qm@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5g1r051g7kski0r54jqbcc2dh91gdfa5rb@4ax.com> Don't forget the original Darwin book: http://darwin-online.org.uk/pdf/1882_Worms_F1363.pdf From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Fri May 15 10:35:07 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 15 May 2009 14:35:07 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 15, 2009 Message-ID: > Chondrulicious! Anita No, Anita, sorry: Chon-drool-icious :-) Best wishes, Bernd From eric at meteoritesusa.com Fri May 15 12:16:06 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 09:16:06 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions Message-ID: <4A0D9546.4010606@meteoritesusa.com> Hi all, In regard to Tunguska and bioturbation. Paul H's post on bioturbation brings up an interesting question. The first expedition led by Leonid Kulik to Tunguska in 1927 to study the devastation and search for meteorites happened 19 years AFTER the event in 1908, (He had an earlier expedition in 1921 but wasn't successful in reaching the epicenter until 1927). 19 years is a LONG time for meteorites in the forested and swampy environment full of little critters, insects, and plants that could bury any stones. How deep can meteorites be buried in 19 years of snow, rain storms, mudslides, spring melt, critters, ants, termites, and other animals? Could bioturbation be one cause for the failed attempts to recover meteorites at Tunguska? You also have to take into account Leonid Kulik's mindset at the time. He was thinking that meteorites would be directly beneath the blast at the epicenter. Which made sense. Would he be looking for meteorites 10-40 miles away from the epicenter? He attributed the circular swampy bogs to craters formed by the meteorite impacts, which unfortunately turned out to be incorrect. Did he search for meteorites only under the epicenter? How far from the epicenter did his search area expand? Were there other expeditions to Tunguska to search in the 10-40 mile ring from the epicenter? Most scientists believe that the sheer force and energy of the blast at Tunguska event vaporized every trace of the meteoroid explaining that this is why there are no fragments to be recovered. This obviously makes sense, but would EVERYTHING be vaporized? Take a look at the "accepted" theory of Chixulub and the extinction of the dinosaurs. This widely accepted theory is now being challenged. Perhaps we should look at Tunguska again, in a new light. I am just wondering something out loud here about the Tunguska event. Yesterday I sent a load of links and questions and surprisingly got no response. Come on, this is the largest meteorite related blast in recent recorded history. So I'll will ask again. Is it possible that there are in fact meteorites that survived the Tunguska event by being blasted away much further from the epicenter than previously thought? Below is a copy of my post about some questions I had on Tunguska in yesterday's post. -----------------------ORIGINAL POST--------------------- Hi Listees, Recently there's been more interest in the Tunguska event. More scientists are trying to explain it, and some are even looking at a lake near the blasts epicenter believing that this is the missing crater. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6239334.stm Photo of Lake Cheko: http://a52.g.akamaitech.net/f/52/827/1d/www.space.com/images/070626_lake_cheko_02.jpg A witness in Vanovara (36 Miles SE of the epicenter) said in O. Richard Norton's "Rocks From Space" "The crash was followed by noise like stones falling from the sky, or guns firing." and "when I lay on the ground I covered my head because I was afraid that stones might hit it." We all know too well that witness reports aren't ideal information but useful anyway. But, how would this person know to say that there was a "noise like stones falling" unless that were the case? Or did the witnesses report become tainted after countless interviews? How many times was this witness interviewed? I know people have searched for meteorites under and around the epicenter area. But what if this was a stony meteoroid, and the explosion blasted meteorite pieces 30-50 miles away. The devastation this explosion caused is evidence that it was one hell of a blast and was on par with a nuclear explosion. YouTube Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiXpp-i442s Donald Yoemans (JPL) states in the History Channel video that this blast was 15 megatons of equivalent energy "roughly 1000 times that of the Hiroshima blast." VERY COOL ARTIST RENDERING: http://svidea.us/misha/image/tunguska2.jpg Photos of Devastation: http://astro.wsu.edu/worthey/astro/html/im-meteor/tunguska-photo.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Tunguska.png http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images1/tunguska3.jpg http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tu3.gif Artist Rendering: http://aura.gaia.com/photos/34/338910/large/tunguska-1.jpg Area Map: http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tunguska1.gif Blast Damage Area: http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tu2.gif When you factor in all this information, how come people aren't looking 30-40 miles away for debris from this blast. If it was as powerful as they say (as evidenced by the downed trees and other devastation) wouldn't it make perfect sense that area around the blast would be completely void of meteorites as is the case? Having said that, wouldn't it be prudent to look further away from the blasts epicenter for fragments? How far will a blast such as that throw debris? If a Navy destroyer can launch a huge shell a hundred miles using a few pounds of gunpowder, how far can a meteoroid blast such as this launch stone fragments? Bomb squad techs and investigators will be the first to tell you that there's always something left over from a blast no matter how powerful. Pieces get thrown sometimes miles from the epicenter of powerful blast. In the case of Tunguska this blast was nuclear powerful! Yes a lot of the mass would have been melted and disintegrated but, how likely is it really that the blast would make ALL trace of the meteoroid disappear? Could there be meteorite pieces within a 30-50 mile ring around the epicenter? -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From mafer at imagineopals.com Fri May 15 12:41:26 2009 From: mafer at imagineopals.com (mafer at imagineopals.com) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 17:41:26 +0100 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions In-Reply-To: <4A0D9546.4010606@meteoritesusa.com> References: <4A0D9546.4010606@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: Good question Eric But, in such a location that is forested, or was until the forest was flattened, I'd suspect that activities by creature would be much less than the yearly fall of needles and leaves, freezing and thawing, rain and wind. with rain and wind causing the most relocation or covering up of impactites and their craters or resting spots. Mark Ferguson On May 15, 5:16 pm Meteorites USA wrote: > Hi all, > > In regard to Tunguska and bioturbation. > > Paul H's post on bioturbation brings up an interesting question. The > first expedition led by Leonid Kulik to Tunguska in 1927 to study the > devastation and search for meteorites happened 19 years AFTER the > event in 1908, (He had an earlier expedition in 1921 but wasn't > successful in reaching the epicenter until 1927). > > 19 years is a LONG time for meteorites in the forested and swampy > environment full of little critters, insects, and plants that could > bury any stones. How deep can meteorites be buried in 19 years of > snow, rain storms, mudslides, spring melt, critters, ants, termites, > and other animals? > Could bioturbation be one cause for the failed attempts to recover > meteorites at Tunguska? > > You also have to take into account Leonid Kulik's mindset at the > time. He was thinking that meteorites would be directly beneath the > blast at the epicenter. Which made sense. Would he be looking for > meteorites 10-40 miles away from the epicenter? He attributed the > circular swampy bogs to craters formed by the meteorite impacts, > which unfortunately turned out to be incorrect. Did he search for > meteorites only under the epicenter? How far from the epicenter did > his search area expand? > Were there other expeditions to Tunguska to search in the 10-40 mile > ring from the epicenter? > > Most scientists believe that the sheer force and energy of the blast > at Tunguska event vaporized every trace of the meteoroid explaining > that this is why there are no fragments to be recovered. This > obviously makes sense, but would EVERYTHING be vaporized? > > Take a look at the "accepted" theory of Chixulub and the extinction > of the dinosaurs. This widely accepted theory is now being > challenged. Perhaps we should look at Tunguska again, in a new light. > > I am just wondering something out loud here about the Tunguska event. > Yesterday I sent a load of links and questions and surprisingly got > no response. Come on, this is the largest meteorite related blast in > recent recorded history. So I'll will ask again. > > Is it possible that there are in fact meteorites that survived the > Tunguska event by being blasted away much further from the epicenter > than previously thought? > > Below is a copy of my post about some questions I had on Tunguska in > yesterday's post. > > -----------------------ORIGINAL POST--------------------- > > Hi Listees, > > Recently there's been more interest in the Tunguska event. More > scientists are trying to explain it, and some are even looking at a > lake near the blasts epicenter believing that this is the missing > crater. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6239334.stm > > Photo of Lake Cheko: > http://a52.g.akamaitech.net/f/52/827/1d/www.space.com/images/070626_la > ke_cheko_02.jpg > > A witness in Vanovara (36 Miles SE of the epicenter) said in O. > Richard Norton's "Rocks From Space" > > "The crash was followed by noise like stones falling from the sky, or > guns firing." > > and > > "when I lay on the ground I covered my head because I was afraid that > stones might hit it." > > We all know too well that witness reports aren't ideal information but > useful anyway. But, how would this person know to say that there was a > "noise like stones falling" unless that were the case? Or did the > witnesses report become tainted after countless interviews? How many > times was this witness interviewed? > > I know people have searched for meteorites under and around the > epicenter area. But what if this was a stony meteoroid, and the > explosion blasted meteorite pieces 30-50 miles away. The devastation > this explosion caused is evidence that it was one hell of a blast and > was on par with a nuclear explosion. > > YouTube Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiXpp-i442s > > Donald Yoemans (JPL) states in the History Channel video that this > blast was 15 megatons of equivalent energy "roughly 1000 times that > of the Hiroshima blast." > > VERY COOL ARTIST RENDERING: http://svidea.us/misha/image/tunguska2.jpg > > Photos of Devastation: > http://astro.wsu.edu/worthey/astro/html/im-meteor/tunguska-photo.jpg > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Tunguska.png > http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images1/tunguska3.jpg > http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tu3.gif > Artist Rendering: http://aura.gaia.com/photos/34/338910/large/tunguska > -1.jpg > Area Map: http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tunguska1.gif > Blast Damage Area: http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tu2.gif > > When you factor in all this information, how come people aren't > looking 30-40 miles away for debris from this blast. If it was as > powerful as they say (as evidenced by the downed trees and other > devastation) wouldn't it make perfect sense that area around the > blast would be completely void of meteorites as is the case? > > Having said that, wouldn't it be prudent to look further away from the > blasts epicenter for fragments? How far will a blast such as that > throw debris? If a Navy destroyer can launch a huge shell a hundred > miles using a few pounds of gunpowder, how far can a meteoroid blast > such as this launch stone fragments? > > Bomb squad techs and investigators will be the first to tell you that > there's always something left over from a blast no matter how > powerful. Pieces get thrown sometimes miles from the epicenter of > powerful blast. In the case of Tunguska this blast was nuclear > powerful! Yes a lot of the mass would have been melted and > disintegrated but, how likely is it really that the blast would make > ALL trace of the meteoroid disappear? > Could there be meteorite pieces within a 30-50 mile ring around the > epicenter? > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From GeoZay at aol.com Fri May 15 12:56:18 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 12:56:18 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions Message-ID: >>Yes a lot of the mass would have been melted and disintegrated but, how likely is it really that the blast would make ALL trace of the meteoroid disappear?<< Tunguska was pretty much a terminal burst when it smacked up against the atmosphere. I visualize a terminal burst like someone throwing a dirt clod as hard as they could, up against a brick wall....but with a much more energy. Thus the dirt clod gets blown into smitherens in all directions. geozay **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823239x1201398650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May Excfooter51509NO62) From GeoZay at aol.com Fri May 15 13:06:55 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 13:06:55 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions Message-ID: >>If a Navy destroyer can launch a huge shell a hundred miles using a few pounds of gunpowder, << I think the largest gun on a U.S. Navy destroyer is around a 5 inch? I think their range is about 8 to 10 miles? Just guessing here. A battleship equipped with a 16 inch gun, I think it's range is in the neighborhood of about 26 miles? Outside of missiles, I don't know of anything bigger on a ship. >>, how far can a meteoroid blast such as this launch stone fragments?<< the further a stone fragment gets launched, also means the more energy available to pulverize it when it smacked the atmosphere I would think. geozay **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823239x1201398650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May Excfooter51509NO62) From bristolia at yahoo.com Fri May 15 14:26:27 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 11:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions Message-ID: <379570.98523.qm@web36203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In regard to Tunguska and bioturbation, Meteorites USA asked: ?Paul H's post on bioturbation brings up an interesting question. The first expedition led by Leonid Kulik to Tunguska in 1927 to study the devastation and search for meteorites happened 19 years AFTER the event in 1908, (He had an earlier expedition in 1921 but wasn't successful in reaching the epicenter until 1927). 19 years is a LONG time for meteorites in the forested and swampy environment full of little critters, insects, and plants that could bury any stones. How deep can meteorites be buried in 19 years of snow, rain storms, mudslides, spring melt, critters, ants, termites, and other animals? This is very interesting point, because 19 years likely would be sufficient time for relatively small fragments of meteorite to be buried. Dr. Donald Johnson found right after buying the in which he lives, a layer of bricks buried beneath 2 or 3 inches of soil. This had been bricks that had been placed on the ground, without using any mortar hold them together, as simple patio. Given when the house was built, the bricks could not have been placed on the ground more than 20 years before he found them. It was this discovery that inspired him to start his research on bioturbation from what can remember of his class lectures. The depth of burial at Tunguska, would depend, in part, on how deep any permafrost present at that location melts each year and how deep that and other processes allow bioturbation to occur. I suspect that between bioturbation and cryturbation, any small and even relatively large, meteorite fragment would very quickly disappear beneath the soil and muck. It would be interesting to find some specific information about the soils present at the Tunguska Site and do a detailed taphonomic analysis of what the soil and sediment data means in terms of "meteorite taphonomy". It would be no different then doing an analysis of site formation processes for an archaeological survey area in order to either predict where the archaeologists should look for artifacts or in order to interpret what was or was not found by the archaeologists when they surveyed an area. I have done enough site formation processes analyses for archaeologists, that I could, for a scientific search for meteorites, do the same thing for a strewn field and make a prediction of where a person would expect meteorites to be found. Best Regards, Paul H. Bets Regards, Paul Paul H. From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Fri May 15 14:34:02 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 13:34:02 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions References: <4A0D9546.4010606@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <4528F8196D1E4FF2A85498DE1147FEEC@ATARIENGINE2> Eric, List In order to get the original data, the facts on the ground and to get as close in time to the event, but more scientifically sophisticated and prior to Tunguska being adopted by whackoes and ufo-theorists, I suggest this exhaustive summary of the result of the 1961 Soviet large-scale expedition to Tunguska, from Meteoritica, XXIII (1963): http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/tungmet.html The Lake Cheko paper by Gasperini that suggests it is a secondary crater: http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/GasperiniSvalbard.pdf Gasperini works with the U. of Bologna group. The only academic on-going research program into Tunguska is carried on by the University of Bologna (Italy). There is a wealth of material at their website: http://www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska/ and I suggest you follow those many links on their website to dozens and dozens of informative websites, Gasperini's work at Lake Cheko, many photos from past expeditions, summaries of past research -- all you ever wanted to know about Tunguska but were (not) afraid to ask... There are links to a variety of material on this website maintained by the Novosibirsk Computer Center: http://omzg.sscc.ru/TUNGUSKA/ particularly the excellent works of Academician Vasilyev who does an admirable job of giving the pro's and con's of every theory about Tunguska: http://omzg.sscc.ru/TUNGUSKA/en/articlese/tmpt.html and http://omzg.sscc.ru/TUNGUSKA/en/articlese/vasiljeve.html They also host this article by Roy Gallant: http://omzg.sscc.ru/TUNGUSKA/en/articlese/gallantst.html The natives, the Evenki, believed (half a century ago) that the events of that day were the result of a duel between two rival tribal sorcerers and, hey! it's no crazier than some of the other theories about Tunguska. Calculating the actual force of the "impact" is guesstimation. There's the evidence of the "toothpick forest," flattened by the explosion, but the answer is sensitively dependent on just how high the airburst was. The suggested height ranges from 2400 meters to 9600 meters, producing a calculated explosion of a minimum of 15 Megatons to a maximum of 40 megatons Another method is from the trace of the barometric pressure wave (which passed at least 2-1/2 times around the planet), recorded by the brand-new invention, the chart-recording barometer. The initial pulse is consistent with a force of mid-20-ish megatons, right in the middle of the 15-40 megaton range. I tried reconstructing the force from the witness accounts of the light of the flash, in visible light flux at the distant railway station and in the infrared flux experienced on the porch at Varavana. A big thermal event has a "black-body" distribution of energies across the spectrum that varies with the temperature of the event. I got a 28 megaton event but with error bars that run from 22 megatons to 34 megatons. So, all these different methods seem to point to a similar spread of possible force of the explosion. Yeomans, as a government scientist, is of course giving the absolutely minimum figure of 15 megatons so he can't be criticized for exaggeration or for scaring people. Tunguska is a magnet for kook theories and it spooks "regular" scientists to get too close. In my calculation, thanks to the Stefan-Bolzmann Law I could calculate a temperature for the event as well, and it was a very high temperature, requiring an energetic plasma event to achieve, which brings us to the Boslough Theory of the "Plasma Dragon" of Tunguska: http://www.sandia.gov/news/resources/releases/2007/asteroid.html I have a theory too but it's too whacky for the margins of this email. For more information search the List Archives; they are rife for ten years with Tunguska postings and -- for Godsake -- Google! (1,320,000 hits) Sterling K. Webb ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" To: Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 11:16 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions > Hi all, > > In regard to Tunguska and bioturbation. > > Paul H's post on bioturbation brings up an interesting question. The > first expedition led by Leonid Kulik to Tunguska in 1927 to study the > devastation and search for meteorites happened 19 years AFTER the > event in 1908, (He had an earlier expedition in 1921 but wasn't > successful in reaching the epicenter until 1927). > > 19 years is a LONG time for meteorites in the forested and swampy > environment full of little critters, insects, and plants that could > bury any stones. How deep can meteorites be buried in 19 years of > snow, rain storms, mudslides, spring melt, critters, ants, termites, > and other animals? > > Could bioturbation be one cause for the failed attempts to recover > meteorites at Tunguska? > > You also have to take into account Leonid Kulik's mindset at the time. > He was thinking that meteorites would be directly beneath the blast at > the epicenter. Which made sense. Would he be looking for meteorites > 10-40 miles away from the epicenter? He attributed the circular swampy > bogs to craters formed by the meteorite impacts, which unfortunately > turned out to be incorrect. Did he search for meteorites only under > the epicenter? How far from the epicenter did his search area expand? > > Were there other expeditions to Tunguska to search in the 10-40 mile > ring from the epicenter? > > Most scientists believe that the sheer force and energy of the blast > at Tunguska event vaporized every trace of the meteoroid explaining > that this is why there are no fragments to be recovered. This > obviously makes sense, but would EVERYTHING be vaporized? > > Take a look at the "accepted" theory of Chixulub and the extinction of > the dinosaurs. This widely accepted theory is now being challenged. > Perhaps we should look at Tunguska again, in a new light. > > I am just wondering something out loud here about the Tunguska event. > Yesterday I sent a load of links and questions and surprisingly got no > response. Come on, this is the largest meteorite related blast in > recent recorded history. So I'll will ask again. > > Is it possible that there are in fact meteorites that survived the > Tunguska event by being blasted away much further from the epicenter > than previously thought? > > Below is a copy of my post about some questions I had on Tunguska in > yesterday's post. > > -----------------------ORIGINAL POST--------------------- > > Hi Listees, > > Recently there's been more interest in the Tunguska event. More > scientists are trying to explain it, and some are even looking at a > lake > near the blasts epicenter believing that this is the missing crater. > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6239334.stm > > Photo of Lake Cheko: > http://a52.g.akamaitech.net/f/52/827/1d/www.space.com/images/070626_lake_cheko_02.jpg > > A witness in Vanovara (36 Miles SE of the epicenter) said in O. > Richard > Norton's "Rocks From Space" > > "The crash was followed by noise like stones falling from the sky, or > guns firing." > > and > > "when I lay on the ground I covered my head because I was afraid that > stones might hit it." > > We all know too well that witness reports aren't ideal information but > useful anyway. But, how would this person know to say that there was a > "noise like stones falling" unless that were the case? Or did the > witnesses report become tainted after countless interviews? How many > times was this witness interviewed? > > I know people have searched for meteorites under and around the > epicenter area. But what if this was a stony meteoroid, and the > explosion blasted meteorite pieces 30-50 miles away. The devastation > this explosion caused is evidence that it was one hell of a blast and > was on par with a nuclear explosion. > > YouTube Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiXpp-i442s > > Donald Yoemans (JPL) states in the History Channel video that this > blast > was 15 megatons of equivalent energy "roughly 1000 times that of the > Hiroshima blast." > > VERY COOL ARTIST RENDERING: http://svidea.us/misha/image/tunguska2.jpg > > Photos of Devastation: > http://astro.wsu.edu/worthey/astro/html/im-meteor/tunguska-photo.jpg > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Tunguska.png > http://www.wilsonsalmanac.com/images1/tunguska3.jpg > http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tu3.gif > Artist Rendering: > http://aura.gaia.com/photos/34/338910/large/tunguska-1.jpg > Area Map: http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tunguska1.gif > Blast Damage Area: http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tu2.gif > > When you factor in all this information, how come people aren't > looking > 30-40 miles away for debris from this blast. If it was as powerful as > they say (as evidenced by the downed trees and other devastation) > wouldn't it make perfect sense that area around the blast would be > completely void of meteorites as is the case? > > Having said that, wouldn't it be prudent to look further away from the > blasts epicenter for fragments? How far will a blast such as that > throw > debris? If a Navy destroyer can launch a huge shell a hundred miles > using a few pounds of gunpowder, how far can a meteoroid blast such as > this launch stone fragments? > > Bomb squad techs and investigators will be the first to tell you that > there's always something left over from a blast no matter how > powerful. > Pieces get thrown sometimes miles from the epicenter of powerful > blast. > In the case of Tunguska this blast was nuclear powerful! Yes a lot of > the mass would have been melted and disintegrated but, how likely is > it > really that the blast would make ALL trace of the meteoroid disappear? > > Could there be meteorite pieces within a 30-50 mile ring around the > epicenter? > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman > Meteorites USA > http://www.meteoritesusa.com > 904-236-5394 > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From daistiho at hotmail.com Fri May 15 15:28:56 2009 From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 19:28:56 +0000 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions In-Reply-To: <4528F8196D1E4FF2A85498DE1147FEEC@ATARIENGINE2> References: <4A0D9546.4010606@meteoritesusa.com> <4528F8196D1E4FF2A85498DE1147FEEC@ATARIENGINE2> Message-ID: I believe one of the less hysterical Discovery Channel programs about revisiting Tunguska and looking for evidence of what created the blast with modern analysis techniques aired 3 or 4 months ago. They showed the 'Plasma Dragon' animations for incoming space debris of various types. They also explored a couple more oddball theories, including a volcanic eruption and a dark matter impact. Spaceships were not mentioned, except tangentially :) Best! Tracy Latimer Boslough > Theory of the "Plasma Dragon" of Tunguska: > http://www.sandia.gov/news/resources/releases/2007/asteroid.html > > I have a theory too but it's too whacky for the margins of > this email. For more information search the List Archives; > they are rife for ten years with Tunguska postings and > -- for Godsake -- Google! (1,320,000 hits) > > > > Sterling K. Webb > _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 From geoking at notkin.net Fri May 15 16:04:16 2009 From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 13:04:16 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Thanks from Geoff Message-ID: Dear Listees: I want to send a big thank you to all our US Meteorite List members who tuned in for the "Meteorite Men" premiere on Sunday, and especially those of you who wrote to us with your encouraging comments afterwards. I forwarded some of them (in confidence) to our production company and I owe a number of you personal replies, which I am trying to work through in a timely manner : ) We received good news from the network. "Meteorite Men" was the top rated show on Science Channel on Sunday and the overall ratings were very good -- double what the network expected. The show will be repeated on May 25 at 5 pm, on Science Channel and Science Channel HD. Steve and I appreciate the terrific support we've received from so many of our friends and colleagues over the past year and half, while "Meteorite Men" made the long journey from an idea on a piece of paper to a big-budget HD documentary. Personal special thanks from me to Paul Harris, Caroline Palmer, Dr. Hobart King, Larry and Nancy Lebofsky, Sonny Clary, Dr. Art Ehlmann, Maria Haas, Norbert Classen, Leigh Anne DelRay, Anne Black, Suzanne and Lisa Morrison, and Michael Johnson, and everyone else who helped us along the way, and also to our guest stars Dr. Meenakshi Wadhwa and Dr. Laurence Garvie at ASU. Some really interesting posts on the M-List over the past week. Lots of good reading, and I definitely need to comment back on a few things. How about that fearless McCartney Taylor and the beehive! Holy cow, that's one way to get in good with a landowner : ) All the best from hot and sunny Tucson, Geoff N. www.aerolite.org www.meteoritemen.com From meteorites at online.nl Fri May 15 16:39:46 2009 From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 22:39:46 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Park Forest Garza stone 178 grams on Ebay Message-ID: <9F8800655369447D8DCAF9F6690F250F@laptop> Listoids, Did you read Adams message about the huge Garza Stone which is going up for auction? Right now we have its smaller brother of 178 grams on Ebay. It fits perfectly on the 2,2 kilo piece. So....buy the big sucker.....and than ours and you'll see we are right...it sure fits !! Included are many impact items and best of all, a termite, most probably killed by the impact. Starting price at only $ 45.00 per gram. http://cgi.ebay.com/Park-Forest-Garza-stone-178-grams-with-impact-items_W0QQitemZ170331201081QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3239QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Best. Jan Holland From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Fri May 15 22:22:38 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 19:22:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Nice Message-ID: <552708.95186.qm@web46403.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1731.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1733.jpg More to come on this later. Greg C. From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Fri May 15 23:34:41 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 20:34:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] nice" Message-ID: <428673.21732.qm@web62008.mail.re1.yahoo.com> is this nwa 4734 the monzoggabro, anyw ay nice slices and nice cut. aziz ?habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From GeoZay at aol.com Sat May 16 01:10:08 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 01:10:08 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions Message-ID: >>Do you really believe absolutely EVERYTHING was destroyed from the blast?<< I have no reason to believe otherwise. >> I know a nuclear explosion is powerful but come on. Don't you think it's possible something larger than the grain of sand, macroscopic particles, and isotopic evidence survived?<< Just about anything is possible, but so far no one has come up with anything bigger that I know of. There's an awful lot of energy involved here. After seeing and reading the reports about the massive rock fall in Yosemite park about twenty years ago, where a lot of the rock material became mostly powder, I can believe just microscopic material was left over. Here we are talking about a fall of about 2000 feet. The concussion blew over many full grown trees. It doesn't take much of my imagination to picture what could happen with something a bit bigger traveling over 12 miles/second suddenly hitting a solid resistance of air. GeoZay **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377005x1201454319/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May Excfooter51609NO62) From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat May 16 00:48:23 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 21:48:23 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A0E4597.40700@meteoritesusa.com> Hi, Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia, however accurate this is I'm not sure but it give and example of the firepower of a "small" projectile. The charge used to fire such a distance is a few pounds of gun powder. Maybe I was wrong about the hundred mile range of the Naval artillery. "...On 20 January 1989, during an improperly authorized gunnery experiment off Vieques Island, the USS Iowa fired a 16-inch (406 mm) shell 23.4 nautical miles (27 mi; 43 km), setting a record for the longest-ranged 16-inch (406 mm) shell ever fired..." SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_(BB-61) A nautical mile is equal to 1.15077945 statute miles. 27 nautical miles is equal to 31.07 miles range. Compare this Navy gun to the power of the blast at Tunguska and you have a real good way to not only vaporize a large portion of the meteoroid, but maybe to launch large pieces tens of miles away from the epicenter. Do you really believe absolutely EVERYTHING was destroyed from the blast? I know a nuclear explosion is powerful but come on. Don't you think it's possible something larger than the grain of sand, macroscopic particles, and isotopic evidence survived? Regards, Eric GeoZay at aol.com wrote: >>> If a Navy destroyer can launch a huge shell a hundred miles >>> > using a few pounds of gunpowder, << > > I think the largest gun on a U.S. Navy destroyer is around a 5 inch? I > think their range is about 8 to 10 miles? Just guessing here. A battleship > equipped with a 16 inch gun, I think it's range is in the neighborhood of > about 26 miles? Outside of missiles, I don't know of anything bigger on a ship. > > > > >>> , how far can a meteoroid blast such as >>> > this launch stone fragments?<< > > the further a stone fragment gets launched, also means the more energy > available to pulverize it when it smacked the atmosphere I would think. > geozay > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823239x1201398650/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May > Excfooter51509NO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From cynapse at charter.net Sat May 16 02:38:53 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 01:38:53 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 16 May 2009 01:10:08 EDT, you wrote: > >Just about anything is possible, but so far no one has come up with >anything bigger that I know of. There's an awful lot of energy involved here. Also, if Tunguska was cometary in origin, there might not have been anything much larger than dust (aside from the ice) to begin with. From Impactika at aol.com Sat May 16 01:44:44 2009 From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 01:44:44 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - A few more things. Message-ID: Hello everybody, The List has been so quiet tonight, I might wake up some of you! But then you might like to hear what I have to say. I have just added a small batch of pieces to my site, just in time for the weekend. Not very many but when is the last time you saw a slice of Clark County, or Butler, or Gan Gan, or a whole complete specimen of La Criolla? Go take a look: _http://www.impactika.com/MetList.htm_ (http://www.impactika.com/MetList.htm) And I also added a few new thin-sections, with great pictures of course (Thank you John). You really should see those: _http://www.impactika.com/TSlist.htm_ (http://www.impactika.com/TSlist.htm) Enjoy!! And do let me know if you have any questions. Have a nice weekend. Anne M. Black http://www.impactika.com/ IMPACTIKA at aol.com Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc. http://www.imca.cc/ **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377005x1201454319/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May Excfooter51609NO62) From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sat May 16 02:01:54 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 23:01:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Nice ??? Message-ID: <137399.50188.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com> What is this and is it bigger than a bread box? If there are any experts or (mind readers for that matter) who've figured this one out please interpret "nice" in a petrographical--even dimensional context, Thanks. Elton --- On Fri, 5/15/09, Greg Catterton wrote: Nice > > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1731.jpg > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1733.jpg > From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Sat May 16 02:06:52 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 23:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] nice" Message-ID: <809133.28354.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> Ahhh thanks! Certainly an atypical color combo for a Lunar. Yes nice cut indeed! Elton --- On Fri, 5/15/09, habibi abdelaziz wrote: > From: habibi abdelaziz > > is this nwa 4734 the monzoggabro, anyway nice slices and > nice cut. > aziz From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat May 16 02:21:19 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 23:21:19 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A0E5B5F.1070500@meteoritesusa.com> I agree... If the Tunguska event was caused by a comet and not a meteoroid or asteroid there truly may not be any material left from the blast. However, if I remember correctly, the cometary theory is based not just on the fact no meteorites were found near the epicenter, but somewhat on the presence of high levels of carbon in the samples taken from peat and tree bark drill core samples near the epicenter. A carbonaceous meteoroid/asteroid could have left those same levels of carbon. Darren Garrison wrote: > On Sat, 16 May 2009 01:10:08 EDT, you wrote: > > >> Just about anything is possible, but so far no one has come up with >> anything bigger that I know of. There's an awful lot of energy involved here. >> > > Also, if Tunguska was cometary in origin, there might not have been anything > much larger than dust (aside from the ice) to begin with. > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sat May 16 07:16:34 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 07:16:34 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 16, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_16_2009.html __________________________ ROCKS from SPACE http://www.rocksfromspace.org __________________________ **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377005x1201454319/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May Excfooter51609NO62) From GeoZay at aol.com Sat May 16 09:30:33 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 09:30:33 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions Message-ID: >>I agree... If the Tunguska event was caused by a comet and not a meteoroid or asteroid there truly may not be any material left from the blast. However, if I remember correctly, the cometary theory is based not just on the fact no meteorites were found near the epicenter, but somewhat on the presence of high levels of carbon in the samples taken from peat and tree bark drill core samples near the epicenter. A carbonaceous meteoroid/asteroid could have left those same levels of carbon.<< I personally think that Tunguska was an asteroid. For no better reason that to me it represents a little larger object than what hits our atmosphere a few times each year. Why not a similar object somewhat bigger with similar characteristics on occasions? Tunguska was a big wallop and so were two others in the 1930's over the Amazon basin, though somewhat smaller than Tunguska, but it still knocked over trees for a few miles with no meteorite fragments that I know of. A couple small asteroids per year do themselves in without leaving ground fragments seems natural, why not a somewhat bigger asteroid once every 50 or 100 years doing the same thing? GeoZay **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377005x1201454319/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May Excfooter51609NO62) From darryl at dof3.com Sat May 16 11:03:53 2009 From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 11:03:53 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] TOMORROW / 53 METEORITES AT HERITAGE NATURAL HISTORY AUCTION Message-ID: Folks, There is an outstanding array of meteorites available at tomorrow's Heritage Natural History sale Check this out. http://www.ha.com/common/search_items.php?txtSearch=meteoriteS&ic=homepage_search&hdnSearch=true&optGlobalSearch=1 Separately, I've received a handful of inquiries concerning the descriptions. Please note I only wrote a portion of the same. I would never would have suggested that Wells is the "the most scientifically important meteorite to have ever been found in America" or that "LL4s are highly valued among scientists" or that Richfield is "one of the most beautiful stony meteorites from America." And that's for starters. And I sometimes thought I was getting carried away! ;-) All the best / Darryl http://www.macovich.com From gredfern at earthlink.net Sat May 16 23:49:41 2009 From: gredfern at earthlink.net (Greg Redfern) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 23:49:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Sky & Telescope, June 2009 and Greg Redfern In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <673DBB52A22F4848BB9CCB75C857BAFE@gregufeopu010a> Thank you, Bernd. LRO and LCROSS are now set to launch no earlier than 17 June 2009. I hope you and the List enjoyed the article. All the best, Greg Greg Redfern NASA JPL Solar System Ambassador http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/ambassador/index.html WHAT'S UP?: THE SPACE PLACE http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=600113&nid=421 ASTROCAST http://astrocast.tv/ -----Original Message----- From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 6:21 AM To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Sky & Telescope, June 2009 and Greg Redfern Hello Folks, Just a heads-up: There is an article about NASA's Return to the Moon / Lunar Fireworks written by list member Greg Redfern. So get your copy at the newsstand if you're not subscribed to S & T!. In the News Notes section you'll find a short article + photo about the stolen meteorite that was found and given back 41 years later! .. and much, much more that is worth reading! Best wishes, Bernd ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat May 16 14:05:57 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 11:05:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A0F0085.5070507@meteoritesusa.com> In response to your question... "...A couple small asteroids per year do themselves in without leaving ground fragments seems natural, why not a somewhat bigger asteroid once every 50 or 100 years doing the same thing?..." OK, I'll go along with that "if" you can answer this question definitively with an absolution and no doubt. How do we know for sure we're looking in the right place? (in regards to any fireball not just the Tunguska event) The quick and dirty answer is obviously we don't know for sure until we give up the search or find a meteorite. We are basing the assumption of disintegration on fruitless searches for meteorites from other fireballs throughout history. Of all fireballs and meteoroid/asteroid air-bursts how many of those fireballs actually get chased? And of those that do get chased how many of those searches are looking in the right area? Oh yeah... Of all historical "witnessed" meteorite falls, how many were found by using trajectory calculations by scientists or meteorite hunters? Most meteorites that come from witnessed falls I've researched have been found by farmers, villagers, or residents of towns and cities in or near where the meteorites fell, relatively easily locatable, and usually only because they saw it hit the ground, heard it hit, or noticed the "odd rock" on the ground. In some cases meteorites actually struck people or objects. LIST OF WITNESSED METEORITE FALLS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorite_falls Locating a meteorite strewnfield when one witnesses a distant fireball is difficult on a small asteroid or meteoroid. So without conclusive data or studies on a number of witnessed fireballs that resulted in meteorites being recovered one can only assume that when no meteorites are found that it burned up completely. My suggestion is very simple. Did anyone ever consider that this disintegration theory might be incorrect because we might just simply be looking in the wrong place? In Tunguska we're assuming that any meteorite fragments would be directly beneath the epicenter. So my big question still stands... How do we know for sure EVERYTHING disintegrates, burns up, or vaporizes, without going to each witnessed location and compiling solid data? If there is solid data on this (meteorite dropping fireball expeditions in general) I'd like to know where it is... I've searched for the data, but maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place too... In the case of Tunguska the first successful expedition made it to the epicenter 19 years after the fact. Regards, Eric GeoZay at aol.com wrote: >>> I agree... If the Tunguska event was caused by a comet and not a >>> > meteoroid or asteroid there truly may not be any material left from the > blast. However, if I remember correctly, the cometary theory is based > not just on the fact no meteorites were found near the epicenter, but > somewhat on the presence of high levels of carbon in the samples taken > from peat and tree bark drill core samples near the epicenter. A > carbonaceous meteoroid/asteroid could have left those same levels of > carbon.<< > > I personally think that Tunguska was an asteroid. For no better reason > that to me it represents a little larger object than what hits our atmosphere > a few times each year. Why not a similar object somewhat bigger with > similar characteristics on occasions? Tunguska was a big wallop and so were two > others in the 1930's over the Amazon basin, though somewhat smaller than > Tunguska, but it still knocked over trees for a few miles with no meteorite > fragments that I know of. A couple small asteroids per year do themselves in > without leaving ground fragments seems natural, why not a somewhat bigger > asteroid once every 50 or 100 years doing the same thing? > GeoZay > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377005x1201454319/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May > Excfooter51609NO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat May 16 15:22:16 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 12:22:16 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Fire or Bad Report? Message-ID: <4A0F1268.9040807@meteoritesusa.com> Hi list, From what I read this is based on two peoples "possible" meteor sighting... ---------------------------REPORT------------------------- METEOR STRIKE MAY HAVE CAUSED PEAT BOG FIRE NEAR CARLISLE By Phil Coleman Last updated 13:26, Saturday, 16 May 2009 A huge fire which tore through a Cumbria peat bog near Carlisle may have been caused by a meteor strike, according to some locals. Related: Cumbrian firefighters tackle half mile long peat bog blaze Firefighters spent several hours on Monday morning battling the blaze at Wedholme Flow, near Kirkbride, which at its height stretched for half a mile, leaving a wall of fire visible from miles around. It has now emerged that some residents living near the bog reported seeing a white-hot meteor streaking through the night sky. The theory is that it may have triggered fire shortly after striking the ground on Sunday night. The nature reserve is managed by Natural England. Alasdair Brock, who is senior manager at the site, helped the team of 17 firefighters who tackled the blaze. He said: ?My wife Claire is a GP in Penrith, and a colleague of hers who was passing nearby saw the meteorite or something flashing through the sky in the general vicinity of the Solway mosses. ?I believe this man is a reliable witness, so it?s entirely feasible this happened.? Natural England spokesman Will Herman said: ?The meteor theory is a possible cause of the fire but there?s no way now of verifying this as any meteorite is likely to have been small and would have buried itself in the peat, leaving little evidence. ?Our senior manager went out the next day to check that everything was out and to have a look around. Unfortunately he saw no evidence of the meteorite.? The meteor theory is thought to carry weight as the weather at the time of the fire was not particularly hot, and the area is not known for attracting vandals who might want to start fires, particularly late at night. One eyewitness who may have seen the meteor was Paula Hinds, who was sitting at home in Langholm when her attention was drawn to a skylight. ?It all happened in a split second,? said Paula, 29. ?I saw a light, like a firework but a lot bigger. It shot across the sky. It was about 10pm and it was heading towards Carlisle. ?It thought nothing more about it until the following morning when I heard about the fire and the idea that it may have been caused by a meteor.? Three fire crews from Carlisle, Wigton and Silloth used beaters to kill the flames as the fire spread. A Cumbria fire service spokesman said: ?The fire and smoke could be seen from several miles away.? David Sparkes, 57, who lives nearby, said the fire was first spotted by his 14-year-old daughter Marie. ?The whole lot went up very quickly,? he said. ?Normally, the wind blows towards our house but fortunately that night it wasn?t. ?We were out watching the fire until 12.30am.? SOURCE: http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/meteor_strike_may_have_caused_peat_bog_fire_near_carlisle_1_555728?referrerPath=home RELATED: http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/cumbrian_firefighters_tackle_half_mile_long_peat_bog_blaze_1_553274?referrerPath=news -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From GeoZay at aol.com Sat May 16 15:43:04 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 15:43:04 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Fire or Bad Report? Message-ID: >>METEOR STRIKE MAY HAVE CAUSED PEAT BOG FIRE NEAR CARLISLE<< ?It all happened in a split second,? said Paula, 29. ?I saw a light, like a firework but a lot bigger. It shot across the sky. It was about 10pm and it was heading towards Carlisle." It's the old, "If its bright enuf to see and cause a fire on the ground, then it's big enuf to find a big hole and hear sonic booms. The sonics are something a witness probably wouldn't have left out with any of their reports. Also the descriptive words of, "It shot across the sky." indicates to me they were describing any meteor seen as to being of cometary origin. Also something not likely to drop a meteorite. Again I would give this just three chances of happening...Fat, Slim and No...highly unlikely. :O) geozay **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377005x1201454319/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May Excfooter51609NO62) From meteoritefinder at gmail.com Sat May 16 16:10:52 2009 From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 13:10:52 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Seeking some of this lists knowledge Message-ID: <468bf6050905161310y36f02692w4f84ab0eaa616bca@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone inspired by the great experience I had in West Texas, I am spending a considerable amount of my time chasing fire balls these days. As you know we seemed to have a large number of fire balls in a short time. One question I am pondering at the moment is how a sonic boom relates to these events. We have several different recent events and the sonic booms in these events are different in the way they direct us to look for the meteorites, I hope they produced. First we have the ...well I guess I better leave that state out of this public address. A well know recent event with many reports of a huge boom that shook houses and rattled windows. These booms woke many people from a sound sleep. My question here is why would the boom be so loud and violent? Is it due to the size or speed of the object entering our atmosphere? Then we have another recent event with three separate distinct booms. Softer and not as violent but we have three of the them boom, boom, boom. Does this mean there are three separate objects? We also have a very recent event in the Flagstaff area with reports of a sonic boom, now in this case witnesses say that the meteor was headed for earth at a very steep angle,(perhaps 80 degrees) I am wondering what affect this has on a sonic boom. Such a steep angle of decent does that produce a smaller area where the boom can be heard? Then a general question is the point in the atmosphere where the sonic boom is created a specific altitude or does it vary by size shape and speed? Does the fragmentation event or bolide event produce a sonic boom or just the meteor entering our atmosphere. I know there are a lot of questions in there and some of them I think I know what the answers are but I have learned in my years that sometimes you only think you know until someone who really knows starts talking. -- Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401 www.meteoritefinder.com 928-753-6825 From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sat May 16 16:46:21 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 13:46:21 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] A Taste Of Things To Come Message-ID: <4A0F261D.6060104@meteoritesusa.com> Anyone like gorgeous meteorite slices? http://www.meteoritesusa.com/meteorite-slices-end-cuts.htm -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From GeoZay at aol.com Sat May 16 17:47:15 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 17:47:15 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Seeking some of this lists knowledge Message-ID: Hello Mike...I'm not an expert with sonic noises, but I feel I can utilize their appearance or not, along with other information, to conclude with confidence the chances of whether a fireball might drop meteorites or not. First of all, I got some rules of thumbs I refer to. Such as: 1) No chance of hearing any sonic booms from a meteoroid until it reaches at least 30 miles above the earths surface. 2) I also recognize that the crack of a bullet going thru the air and that of a bullwhip are examples of sonic booms. Small meteorites about 30 miles up might produce similar sounding sonic booms...which could easily be absorbed in the air before reaching human ears on the ground. This might account for a lot of meteorites reaching the ground without being heard. But these will be for small meteorites. these kind of meteorites slow down very fast higher up compared to the larger meteorites. The larger the meteoroid/meteorite, the faster it will be traveling lower in the atmosphere before it slows down to free fall speeds. Thus increasing the chances of any produced sonic booms to be heard. 3) If a meteoroid is reported to be glowing all the way to the ground without any sonics reported anywhere, this usually tells me that there is an error in what the witness thinks they are seeing. A glowing meteoroid falling all the way to the ground means it is huge...somewhere between 10 to 100 tons. Without an obvious large impact point, I tend to dismiss this part of a witness statement. >>A well know recent event with many reports of a huge boom that shook houses and rattled windows. These booms woke many people from a sound sleep. My question here is why would the boom be so loud and violent? Is it due to the size or speed of the object entering our atmosphere?<< >From this kind of report, I can conclude that it wasn't small because its sonic sounds weren't absorbed. It wasn't a fist sized object where it's wimpy sonic snap gets muffled. Here I would think size and speed goes hand in hand. At the point where sonics are produced, a large size also means faster speed. In my way of thinking, "loud and violent" also goes along with large and fast. >>Then we have another recent event with three separate distinct booms. Softer and not as violent but we have three of the them boom, boom, boom. Does this mean there are three separate objects?<< This might mean a few things. Three soft boom, boom, boom usually means to me that it was very distant at this point. There might be some other interpretations, but this is what I lump it as. Sometimes folks refer to this as a "rumbling" sound. Perhaps if I knew how long after the meteors appearance are these sounds heard, it might mean something else to me...maybe smaller? or maybe the observer is in a location where the sound doesn't reach him loudly for some reason? As for it being 3 separate objects, I don't know. I guess it could be, but I'm usually trying to figure out if just one piece at least might have reached the ground. If more than one, then its a bonus. >>We also have a very recent event in the Flagstaff area with reports of a sonic boom, now in this case witnesses say that the meteor was headed for earth at a very steep angle,(perhaps 80 degrees) I am wondering what affect this has on a sonic boom. Such a steep angle of decent does that produce a smaller area where the boom can be heard?<< I really don't know, but I'm sure it affects it some how. I'm usually just interested in knowing if a sonic was heard or not. with a bright meteorite dropping fireball, I lump the general reports of many people as one for this bit of info. Chances are if a sonic boom was created, at least one person along the meteoroids flight path will hear it. the general public usually don't associate a meteorite dropping fireball with sonics, so I look for at least one report of sonics. I don't really trust an eyewitness report when they say it came in at a steep angle or not, unless the report says it crossed almost the entire sky...then there's no doubt to me it wasn't a steep angle. I remember once while meteor observing, a fireball appearing what seemed to be directly above my head coming steeply down. By the time it was finishing its flight path, it had the appearance of flying "horizontally" in front of me before reaching the point of retardation. I recognize that it had made no turns, only that it had that appearance. Perhaps having something to do with the earth's flight path, the meteoroids path and my perspective of observation? With that meteor, the sonics appeared quite loudly 2 min. and 18 sec. later. (I was running a timed chart recorder at the time for radio forward scattering). >>Does the fragmentation event or bolide event produce a sonic boom or just the meteor entering our atmosphere.<< Possibly both...depending upon how high up it was and how fast it was traveling. I can picture a large meteoroid reaching below 30 miles up produce a sonic signature, then afterwards it explodes while below this altitude also producing a sonic. Well...I hope this helps. I might not have all the answers, but perhaps I had some. :O) GeoZay **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377005x1201454319/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May Excfooter51609NO62) From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sat May 16 18:42:08 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 15:42:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale Message-ID: <990175.40453.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I have scoured the net checking current prices offered for this type Lunar meteorite and am pretty confident that I can beat any of the currently advertised prices on this real nice Lunar by $200 or more. I have a few samples available, those interested, send me a email. whats available? 6.10g with fusion crust http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar61ga.jpg 1.05g with fusion crust http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar105ga.jpg .80g http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar85g.jpg .65g http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar65g.jpg Hope all is good with everyone, Greg C. From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Sat May 16 21:31:05 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 18:31:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale Message-ID: <925493.91351.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What is the official or provisional NWA number for this material? Who studied it? Best Regards, Adam --- On Sat, 5/16/09, Greg Catterton wrote: > From: Greg Catterton > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 3:42 PM > > I have scoured the net checking current prices offered for > this type Lunar meteorite and am pretty confident that I can > beat any of the currently advertised prices on this real > nice Lunar by $200 or more. > > I have a few samples available, those interested, send me a > email. > > whats available? > > 6.10g with fusion crust > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar61ga.jpg > > 1.05g with fusion crust > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar105ga.jpg > > .80g > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar85g.jpg > > .65g > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar65g.jpg > > Hope all is good with everyone, > > Greg C. > > > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sat May 16 21:59:48 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 18:59:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale Message-ID: <105617.95869.qm@web46401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> This is NWA 4734. You can see a picture of an 11g slice I have here: http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg and compare it to this one: http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg and see its the same material. This has come from a very reputable supplier in Morocco and is without a doubt authentic. Greg C. --- On Sat, 5/16/09, Adam Hupe wrote: > From: Adam Hupe > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale > To: "Adam" > Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 9:31 PM > > What is the official or provisional NWA number for this > material?? Who studied it? > > Best Regards, > > Adam > > > > --- On Sat, 5/16/09, Greg Catterton > wrote: > > > From: Greg Catterton > > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for > sale > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 3:42 PM > > > > I have scoured the net checking current prices offered > for > > this type Lunar meteorite and am pretty confident that > I can > > beat any of the currently advertised prices on this > real > > nice Lunar by $200 or more. > > > > I have a few samples available, those interested, send > me a > > email. > > > > whats available? > > > > 6.10g with fusion crust > > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar61ga.jpg > > > > 1.05g with fusion crust > > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar105ga.jpg > > > > .80g > > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar85g.jpg > > > > .65g > > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar65g.jpg > > > > Hope all is good with everyone, > > > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From grf2 at verizon.net Sat May 16 22:35:41 2009 From: grf2 at verizon.net (Jerry Flaherty) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 22:35:41 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 16, 2009 References: Message-ID: A georgous pic of a georgous piece ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 7:16 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 16, 2009 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_16_2009.html > > __________________________ > > ROCKS from SPACE > http://www.rocksfromspace.org > > __________________________ > > > > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377005x1201454319/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May > Excfooter51609NO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From bristolia at yahoo.com Sat May 16 23:06:50 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 20:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Agglutinated Foraminifera Had a Taste for Extraterrestrial Nanodiamonds Message-ID: <621559.1905.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sea creatures had a thing for bling. by Lewis Dartnell http://www.es.ucl.ac.uk/department/news/2008/may_kaminski.html Article at: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19826553.500-sea-creatures-had-a-thing-for-bling.html%22 ?Even more surprising were microscopic granules of carbon, no more than 10 micrometres across, which were subsequently identified as diamonds. "The foraminifera were deliberately using extraterrestrial diamonds in their shells," says Kaminski.? The paper is; Kaminski, M.A. and Armitage, D.A. and Coccioni, R. (2008) Shocked diamonds in agglutinated foraminifera from the Cretaceous/Paleogene Boundary, Italy - a preliminary report. In: Kaminski, M. A. and Coccioni, R., (eds.) Proceedings of the Seventh International Workshop on Agglutinated Foraminifera. Grzybowski Foundation Special Publications (13). The Grzybowski Foundation, London, UK, pp. 57-60. ISBN 9788392486930 Abstract at http://eprints.ucl.ac.uk/6535/ PDF file at: http://www.es.ucl.ac.uk/people/m-kaminski/reprints-pdfs/KAJC08.pdf Yours, Paul H. From edeckert at triad.rr.com Sat May 16 23:07:30 2009 From: edeckert at triad.rr.com (Ed Deckert) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 23:07:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 16, 2009 References: Message-ID: <00df01c9d69c$9e3d75c0$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain> I just had to replace my computer keyboard because I drooled so badly while looking at this specimen that it got shorted out! Beautiful! Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 7:16 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 16, 2009 > http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_16_2009.html > > __________________________ > > ROCKS from SPACE > http://www.rocksfromspace.org > > __________________________ > > > > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377005x1201454319/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=May > Excfooter51609NO62) > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) > Database version: 5.12400 > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386) Database version: 5.12400 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ From bristolia at yahoo.com Sat May 16 23:31:49 2009 From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 20:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Peter Ward on mass extinctions - The Medea Hypothesis Message-ID: <264431.29701.qm@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Peter Ward on mass extinctions http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/peter_ward_on_mass_extinctions.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lYN_lXU9PA Speakers Peter Ward: Paleontologist http://www.ted.com/index.php/speakers/peter_ward.html The Medea Hypothesis: Is Life on Earth Ultimately Self-Destructive? by Peter Ward http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8855.html http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8855.html#TOC ?Using the latest discoveries from the geological record, he argues that life might be its own worst enemy.? ?According to the Medea hypothesis, it does. Ward demonstrates that all but one of the mass extinctions that have struck Earth were caused by life itself. He looks at our planet's history in a new way, revealing an Earth that is witnessing an alarming decline of diversity and biomass--a decline brought on by life's own "biocidal" tendencies.? Yours, Paul H. From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net Sun May 17 02:44:24 2009 From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 01:44:24 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Agglutinated Foraminifera Had a Taste forExtraterrestrial Nanodiamonds References: <621559.1905.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8FE7D77DBC98457DB0607FCA70077C7E@ATARIENGINE2> It's like the song says: "Diamonds are a foraminifera's best friend." Sterling K. Webb ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul" To: Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Agglutinated Foraminifera Had a Taste forExtraterrestrial Nanodiamonds > > Sea creatures had a thing for bling. by Lewis Dartnell > http://www.es.ucl.ac.uk/department/news/2008/may_kaminski.html > > Article at: > > http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19826553.500-sea-creatures-had-a-thing-for-bling.html%22 > > ?Even more surprising were microscopic granules of carbon, > no more than 10 micrometres across, which were subsequently > identified as diamonds. "The foraminifera were deliberately > using extraterrestrial diamonds in their shells," says > Kaminski.? > > The paper is; > > Kaminski, M.A. and Armitage, D.A. and Coccioni, R. (2008) > Shocked diamonds in agglutinated foraminifera from the > Cretaceous/Paleogene Boundary, Italy - a preliminary report. > In: Kaminski, M. A. and Coccioni, R., (eds.) Proceedings of > the Seventh International Workshop on Agglutinated Foraminifera. > Grzybowski Foundation Special Publications (13). The Grzybowski > Foundation, London, UK, pp. 57-60. ISBN 9788392486930 > > Abstract at > > http://eprints.ucl.ac.uk/6535/ > > PDF file at: > > http://www.es.ucl.ac.uk/people/m-kaminski/reprints-pdfs/KAJC08.pdf > > Yours, > > Paul H. > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Sun May 17 03:32:09 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 00:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale Message-ID: <951578.12960.qm@web62008.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hi greg? this material? is not from me ,? however it looks like the monzoggabro, but i m not sur is it isone from photo aziz ?habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sun May 17 04:09:01 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 01:09:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale Message-ID: <191564.75257.qm@web46411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Not once did I ever say to anyone it came from you. Anyone who claims I did, I invite them post the email where I made that claim... I am sending a sample off to be tested Monday to Tony Irving and the test results will speak for themselves as to what this is - however Im sure anyone can see the picture of what I have: http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg and compare it with this: http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg I want to state for the record, I am selling this for less becouse I dont need to get rich off selling it. I dont sell meteorites to make a living, pay for cars or houses... I sell them to help increase my personal collection. I know what I paid for this and if the others who have this paid anywhere close to what I did, they could sell it for half what they do and still triple the money they put into it - even with cutting loss. I know who I got it from is honest and reliable as for the authenticity. That said, I wont sell anymore until testing is done, but when it is, I will sell it for well under $1,200 per gram... Greg C. --- On Sun, 5/17/09, habibi abdelaziz wrote: > From: habibi abdelaziz > Subject: AD - Lunar available for sale > To: "meteorite list" > Cc: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com > Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:32 AM > > hi greg? > this material? is not from me ,? however it looks like > the monzoggabro, > but i m not sur is it isone from photo > > aziz > ?habibi aziz > box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > phone. 21235576145 > fax.21235576170 > > > > From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Sun May 17 08:30:06 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 08:30:06 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 17, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_17_2009.html ___________________________ http://www.rocksfromspace.org ___________________________ **************A strong credit score is 700 or above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585011x1201462751/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115& bcd=Maystrongfooter51709NO115) From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun May 17 11:32:38 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 11:32:38 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale In-Reply-To: <191564.75257.qm@web46411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <191564.75257.qm@web46411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Be careful Greg, now that you are offering planetaries at reasonable prices, you are going to be viewed as competition by the big guys - then they will start stabbing you in the back. Those who are driven by money are threatened by those like us who don't give a crap about profits. ;) Nice lunar. If I wasn't already sitting on my fair share of lunars, I'd buy a piece. Good luck. Best regards MikeG On 5/17/09, Greg Catterton wrote: > > Not once did I ever say to anyone it came from you. Anyone who claims I did, > I invite them post the email where I made that claim... > > I am sending a sample off to be tested Monday to Tony Irving and the test > results will speak for themselves as to what this is - however Im sure > anyone can see the picture of what I have: > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg > and compare it with this: > http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg > > I want to state for the record, I am selling this for less becouse I dont > need to get rich off selling it. I dont sell meteorites to make a living, > pay for cars or houses... I sell them to help increase my personal > collection. > I know what I paid for this and if the others who have this paid anywhere > close to what I did, they could sell it for half what they do and still > triple the money they put into it - even with cutting loss. > > I know who I got it from is honest and reliable as for the authenticity. > > That said, I wont sell anymore until testing is done, but when it is, I will > sell it for well under $1,200 per gram... > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, habibi abdelaziz wrote: > >> From: habibi abdelaziz >> Subject: AD - Lunar available for sale >> To: "meteorite list" >> Cc: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com >> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:32 AM >> >> hi greg >> this material is not from me , however it looks like >> the monzoggabro, >> but i m not sur is it isone from photo >> >> aziz >> habibi aziz >> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco >> phone. 21235576145 >> fax.21235576170 >> >> >> >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Sun May 17 12:27:25 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:27:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale Message-ID: <269355.63103.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This has nothing to do with competition. It has everything to do with proper chain of custody, legitimate nomenclature assignment, TKW figures, science and collector confidence. Just because a Moroccan dealer says something is a lunar meteorite does not make it so. Just ask the buyers who got ripped off in Tucson this year and the year before. There have been some very convincing lunar-looking Eucrites that have fooled some of the best. There was an embarrassing incident where a scientist claimed something was lunar before running all of the tests and it turned out to be a Eucrite. Many dealers had to recall the material after being in a hurry to put it on the market. To put things in perspective, Luniates are considered the top of the meteorite collectibles chain every since the article, "Mining for Meteorites" in the Smithsonian magazine stated so. Only advanced mineral collections incorporate Meteorite specimens. A mineral specimen is worth a fraction of its cost if the find location and history are not known. Advanced mineral collectors would be appalled by what has happened with Martian meteorites and self-pairings. One well-known dealer purchased material from a Moroccan who stated it was paired to one of our stones. We publicly objected to this dealer using nomenclature assigned to our stones so he sent a piece in for study. It turned out to be a completely new Martian meteorite that was almost lost to science. I would dislike seeing Lunar meteorites being treated the same as some Martian meteorites. Total known weights have been carefully recorded to this point and it would be a shame to lose control. I congratulate anybody who is able to acquire lunar material, have it Laboratory confirmed and pass the Meteoritical Society Nomenclature Committee for name assignment. It would demonstrate proper respect for some of the world's rarest material. Anything less is a disservice. Dealers are not allowed to rate their own diamonds or coins so why should meteorites that are much more rare be any different? Best Regards, Adam --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale > To: "Greg Catterton" > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 8:32 AM > Be careful Greg, now that you are > offering planetaries at reasonable > prices, you are going to be viewed as competition by the > big guys - > then they will start stabbing you in the back.? Those > who are driven > by money are threatened by those like us who don't give a > crap about > profits. ;) > > Nice lunar.? If I wasn't already sitting on my fair > share of lunars, > I'd buy a piece. > > Good luck. > > Best regards > > MikeG > > > > On 5/17/09, Greg Catterton > wrote: > > > > Not once did I ever say to anyone it came from you. > Anyone who claims I did, > > I invite them post the email where I made that > claim... > > > > I am sending a sample off to be tested Monday to Tony > Irving and the test > > results will speak for themselves as to what this is - > however Im sure > > anyone can see the picture of what I have: > > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg > > and compare it with this: > > http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg > > > > I want to state for the record, I am selling this for > less becouse I dont > > need to get rich off selling it. I dont sell > meteorites to make a living, > > pay for cars or houses... I sell them to help increase > my personal > > collection. > > I know what I paid for this and if the others who have > this paid anywhere > > close to what I did, they could sell it for half what > they do and still > > triple the money they put into it - even with cutting > loss. > > > > I know who I got it from is honest and reliable as for > the authenticity. > > > > That said, I wont sell anymore until testing is done, > but when it is, I will > > sell it for well under $1,200 per gram... > > > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, habibi abdelaziz > wrote: > > > >> From: habibi abdelaziz > >> Subject: AD - Lunar available for sale > >> To: "meteorite list" > >> Cc: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com > >> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:32 AM > >> > >> hi greg > >> this material? is not from me ,? however > it looks like > >> the monzoggabro, > >> but i m not sur is it isone from photo > >> > >> aziz > >>? habibi aziz > >> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > >> phone. 21235576145 > >> fax.21235576170 > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun May 17 12:36:49 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 12:36:49 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale In-Reply-To: <269355.63103.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <269355.63103.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "There have been some very convincing lunar-looking Eucrites that have fooled some of the best. " And there are some convincing lunar-looking eucrites that the best have fooled the rest of us with. ;) Some of them are so convincing that they are lunars, right? ;) The Moroccans are no more or less trustworthy than any other nationality - including Americans. I know the score now. Others do also. That's all I am going to say in public about it. On 5/17/09, Adam Hupe wrote: > > This has nothing to do with competition. It has everything to do with proper > chain of custody, legitimate nomenclature assignment, TKW figures, science > and collector confidence. Just because a Moroccan dealer says something is > a lunar meteorite does not make it so. Just ask the buyers who got ripped > off in Tucson this year and the year before. There have been some very > convincing lunar-looking Eucrites that have fooled some of the best. There > was an embarrassing incident where a scientist claimed something was lunar > before running all of the tests and it turned out to be a Eucrite. Many > dealers had to recall the material after being in a hurry to put it on the > market. > > To put things in perspective, Luniates are considered the top of the > meteorite collectibles chain every since the article, "Mining for > Meteorites" in the Smithsonian magazine stated so. Only advanced mineral > collections incorporate Meteorite specimens. A mineral specimen is worth a > fraction of its cost if the find location and history are not known. > > Advanced mineral collectors would be appalled by what has happened with > Martian meteorites and self-pairings. One well-known dealer purchased > material from a Moroccan who stated it was paired to one of our stones. We > publicly objected to this dealer using nomenclature assigned to our stones > so he sent a piece in for study. It turned out to be a completely new > Martian meteorite that was almost lost to science. > > I would dislike seeing Lunar meteorites being treated the same as some > Martian meteorites. Total known weights have been carefully recorded to this > point and it would be a shame to lose control. > > I congratulate anybody who is able to acquire lunar material, have it > Laboratory confirmed and pass the Meteoritical Society Nomenclature > Committee for name assignment. It would demonstrate proper respect for some > of the world's rarest material. Anything less is a disservice. Dealers are > not allowed to rate their own diamonds or coins so why should meteorites > that are much more rare be any different? > > > Best Regards, > > Adam > > > > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks > wrote: > >> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale >> To: "Greg Catterton" >> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 8:32 AM >> Be careful Greg, now that you are >> offering planetaries at reasonable >> prices, you are going to be viewed as competition by the >> big guys - >> then they will start stabbing you in the back. Those >> who are driven >> by money are threatened by those like us who don't give a >> crap about >> profits. ;) >> >> Nice lunar. If I wasn't already sitting on my fair >> share of lunars, >> I'd buy a piece. >> >> Good luck. >> >> Best regards >> >> MikeG >> >> >> >> On 5/17/09, Greg Catterton >> wrote: >> > >> > Not once did I ever say to anyone it came from you. >> Anyone who claims I did, >> > I invite them post the email where I made that >> claim... >> > >> > I am sending a sample off to be tested Monday to Tony >> Irving and the test >> > results will speak for themselves as to what this is - >> however Im sure >> > anyone can see the picture of what I have: >> > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg >> > and compare it with this: >> > http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg >> > >> > I want to state for the record, I am selling this for >> less becouse I dont >> > need to get rich off selling it. I dont sell >> meteorites to make a living, >> > pay for cars or houses... I sell them to help increase >> my personal >> > collection. >> > I know what I paid for this and if the others who have >> this paid anywhere >> > close to what I did, they could sell it for half what >> they do and still >> > triple the money they put into it - even with cutting >> loss. >> > >> > I know who I got it from is honest and reliable as for >> the authenticity. >> > >> > That said, I wont sell anymore until testing is done, >> but when it is, I will >> > sell it for well under $1,200 per gram... >> > >> > Greg C. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, habibi abdelaziz >> wrote: >> > >> >> From: habibi abdelaziz >> >> Subject: AD - Lunar available for sale >> >> To: "meteorite list" >> >> Cc: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com >> >> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:32 AM >> >> >> >> hi greg >> >> this material is not from me , however >> it looks like >> >> the monzoggabro, >> >> but i m not sur is it isone from photo >> >> >> >> aziz >> >> habibi aziz >> >> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco >> >> phone. 21235576145 >> >> fax.21235576170 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ______________________________________________ >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > >> >> >> -- >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sun May 17 12:48:37 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale Message-ID: <303143.67844.qm@web46403.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I understand that. I have already taken the steps to get it checked out. The first thing I did once I got it was to contact Ted Bunch. Perhaps my post was a bit harsh, but some of the emails I have gotten made me feel like people are pissed that I am selling it cheaper then others want me to. Greg C. --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Adam Hupe wrote: > From: Adam Hupe > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale > To: "Adam" > Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 12:27 PM > > This has nothing to do with competition. It has everything > to do with proper chain of custody, legitimate nomenclature > assignment, TKW figures, science and collector > confidence.? Just because a Moroccan dealer says > something is a lunar meteorite does not make it so. Just ask > the buyers who got ripped off in Tucson this year and the > year before. There have been some very convincing > lunar-looking Eucrites that have fooled some of the best. > There was an embarrassing incident where a scientist claimed > something was lunar before running all of the tests and it > turned out to be a Eucrite. Many dealers had to recall the > material after being in a hurry to put it on the > market.? ? ? > > To put things in perspective, Luniates are considered the > top of the meteorite collectibles chain every since the > article, "Mining for Meteorites" in the Smithsonian magazine > stated so. Only advanced mineral collections incorporate > Meteorite specimens. A mineral specimen is worth a fraction > of its cost if the find location and history are not known. > > Advanced mineral collectors would be appalled by what has > happened with Martian meteorites and self-pairings.? > One well-known dealer purchased material from a Moroccan who > stated it was paired to one of our stones. We publicly > objected to this dealer using nomenclature assigned to our > stones so he sent a piece in for study.? It turned out > to be a completely new Martian meteorite that was almost > lost to science. > > I would dislike seeing Lunar meteorites being treated the > same as some Martian meteorites. Total known weights have > been carefully recorded to this point and it would be a > shame to lose control.? > > I congratulate anybody who is able to acquire lunar > material, have it Laboratory confirmed and pass the > Meteoritical Society Nomenclature Committee for name > assignment.? It would demonstrate proper respect for > some of the world's rarest material.? Anything less is > a disservice. Dealers are not allowed to rate their own > diamonds or coins so why should meteorites that are much > more rare be any different? > > > Best Regards, > > Adam > ??? > > > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks > wrote: > > > From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for > sale > > To: "Greg Catterton" > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 8:32 AM > > Be careful Greg, now that you are > > offering planetaries at reasonable > > prices, you are going to be viewed as competition by > the > > big guys - > > then they will start stabbing you in the back.? > Those > > who are driven > > by money are threatened by those like us who don't > give a > > crap about > > profits. ;) > > > > Nice lunar.? If I wasn't already sitting on my fair > > share of lunars, > > I'd buy a piece. > > > > Good luck. > > > > Best regards > > > > MikeG > > > > > > > > On 5/17/09, Greg Catterton > > wrote: > > > > > > Not once did I ever say to anyone it came from > you. > > Anyone who claims I did, > > > I invite them post the email where I made that > > claim... > > > > > > I am sending a sample off to be tested Monday to > Tony > > Irving and the test > > > results will speak for themselves as to what this > is - > > however Im sure > > > anyone can see the picture of what I have: > > > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg > > > and compare it with this: > > > http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg > > > > > > I want to state for the record, I am selling this > for > > less becouse I dont > > > need to get rich off selling it. I dont sell > > meteorites to make a living, > > > pay for cars or houses... I sell them to help > increase > > my personal > > > collection. > > > I know what I paid for this and if the others who > have > > this paid anywhere > > > close to what I did, they could sell it for half > what > > they do and still > > > triple the money they put into it - even with > cutting > > loss. > > > > > > I know who I got it from is honest and reliable > as for > > the authenticity. > > > > > > That said, I wont sell anymore until testing is > done, > > but when it is, I will > > > sell it for well under $1,200 per gram... > > > > > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, habibi abdelaziz > > wrote: > > > > > >> From: habibi abdelaziz > > >> Subject: AD - Lunar available for sale > > >> To: "meteorite list" > > >> Cc: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com > > >> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:32 AM > > >> > > >> hi greg > > >> this material? is not from me ,? however > > it looks like > > >> the monzoggabro, > > >> but i m not sur is it isone from photo > > >> > > >> aziz > > >>? habibi aziz > > >> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > > >> phone. 21235576145 > > >> fax.21235576170 > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ......................................................... > > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > > > .......................................................... > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From tbear1 at cableone.net Sun May 17 13:46:07 2009 From: tbear1 at cableone.net (Ted Bunch) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 10:46:07 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale In-Reply-To: <303143.67844.qm@web46403.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear List - Greg C. has supplied a sample for classification. Although the sample looks like a lunar on first impression, Tony Irving and I will do the classification and answer the question as to whether it is truly lunar or a wannabe. Ted Bunch On 5/17/09 9:48 AM, "Greg Catterton" wrote: > > I understand that. I have already taken the steps to get it checked out. > The first thing I did once I got it was to contact Ted Bunch. > > Perhaps my post was a bit harsh, but some of the emails I have gotten made me > feel like people are pissed that I am selling it cheaper then others want me > to. > > Greg C. > > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Adam Hupe wrote: > >> From: Adam Hupe >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale >> To: "Adam" >> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 12:27 PM >> >> This has nothing to do with competition. It has everything >> to do with proper chain of custody, legitimate nomenclature >> assignment, TKW figures, science and collector >> confidence.? Just because a Moroccan dealer says >> something is a lunar meteorite does not make it so. Just ask >> the buyers who got ripped off in Tucson this year and the >> year before. There have been some very convincing >> lunar-looking Eucrites that have fooled some of the best. >> There was an embarrassing incident where a scientist claimed >> something was lunar before running all of the tests and it >> turned out to be a Eucrite. Many dealers had to recall the >> material after being in a hurry to put it on the >> market.? ? ? >> >> To put things in perspective, Luniates are considered the >> top of the meteorite collectibles chain every since the >> article, "Mining for Meteorites" in the Smithsonian magazine >> stated so. Only advanced mineral collections incorporate >> Meteorite specimens. A mineral specimen is worth a fraction >> of its cost if the find location and history are not known. >> >> Advanced mineral collectors would be appalled by what has >> happened with Martian meteorites and self-pairings.? >> One well-known dealer purchased material from a Moroccan who >> stated it was paired to one of our stones. We publicly >> objected to this dealer using nomenclature assigned to our >> stones so he sent a piece in for study.? It turned out >> to be a completely new Martian meteorite that was almost >> lost to science. >> >> I would dislike seeing Lunar meteorites being treated the >> same as some Martian meteorites. Total known weights have >> been carefully recorded to this point and it would be a >> shame to lose control.? >> >> I congratulate anybody who is able to acquire lunar >> material, have it Laboratory confirmed and pass the >> Meteoritical Society Nomenclature Committee for name >> assignment.? It would demonstrate proper respect for >> some of the world's rarest material.? Anything less is >> a disservice. Dealers are not allowed to rate their own >> diamonds or coins so why should meteorites that are much >> more rare be any different? >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Adam >> ??? >> >> >> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks >> wrote: >> >>> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for >> sale >>> To: "Greg Catterton" >>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 8:32 AM >>> Be careful Greg, now that you are >>> offering planetaries at reasonable >>> prices, you are going to be viewed as competition by >> the >>> big guys - >>> then they will start stabbing you in the back.? >> Those >>> who are driven >>> by money are threatened by those like us who don't >> give a >>> crap about >>> profits. ;) >>> >>> Nice lunar.? If I wasn't already sitting on my fair >>> share of lunars, >>> I'd buy a piece. >>> >>> Good luck. >>> >>> Best regards >>> >>> MikeG >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/17/09, Greg Catterton >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Not once did I ever say to anyone it came from >> you. >>> Anyone who claims I did, >>>> I invite them post the email where I made that >>> claim... >>>> >>>> I am sending a sample off to be tested Monday to >> Tony >>> Irving and the test >>>> results will speak for themselves as to what this >> is - >>> however Im sure >>>> anyone can see the picture of what I have: >>>> http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg >>>> and compare it with this: >>>> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg >>>> >>>> I want to state for the record, I am selling this >> for >>> less becouse I dont >>>> need to get rich off selling it. I dont sell >>> meteorites to make a living, >>>> pay for cars or houses... I sell them to help >> increase >>> my personal >>>> collection. >>>> I know what I paid for this and if the others who >> have >>> this paid anywhere >>>> close to what I did, they could sell it for half >> what >>> they do and still >>>> triple the money they put into it - even with >> cutting >>> loss. >>>> >>>> I know who I got it from is honest and reliable >> as for >>> the authenticity. >>>> >>>> That said, I wont sell anymore until testing is >> done, >>> but when it is, I will >>>> sell it for well under $1,200 per gram... >>>> >>>> Greg C. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, habibi abdelaziz >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: habibi abdelaziz >>>>> Subject: AD - Lunar available for sale >>>>> To: "meteorite list" >>>>> Cc: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com >>>>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:32 AM >>>>> >>>>> hi greg >>>>> this material? is not from me ,? however >>> it looks like >>>>> the monzoggabro, >>>>> but i m not sur is it isone from photo >>>>> >>>>> aziz >>>>> ? habibi aziz >>>>> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco >>>>> phone. 21235576145 >>>>> fax.21235576170 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >> ......................................................... >>> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >>> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >>> >> .......................................................... >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Sun May 17 14:06:48 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 11:06:48 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Two Cool Videos About Asteroids Message-ID: <4A105238.1080602@meteoritesusa.com> Here's a couple funny lighthearted videos about the death and destruction of our home planet. Lets build a ship to run away to another habitable planet. Wait, we haven't found one yet. Oh Well... Besides even if we did find a habitable planet, it would take thousands of years (using current technology) to get there, and that's if we had a ship that could make it. Generation ship anyone? Neil DeGrasse Tyson - How to Deflect a Killer Asteroid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-ReuLZ2quc&feature=player_embedded Neil DeGrasse Tyson - Death By Giant Meteor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaW4Ol3_M1o&feature=related -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com Sun May 17 14:51:17 2009 From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 11:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale Message-ID: <557011.17511.qm@web45403.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Greg, If it is the real Monzogabbro, you can sell it using the number 4734, it came from the stone Dr. jambon analysed and got the 20g twice, you don't need to present another sample. Good luck Aziz --- On Sat, 5/16/09, Greg Catterton wrote: > From: Greg Catterton > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 6:59 PM > > This is NWA 4734. > You can see a picture of an 11g slice I have here: > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg > and compare it to this one: > http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg > and see its the same material. > This has come from a very reputable supplier in Morocco and > is without a doubt authentic. > > > Greg C. > > > --- On Sat, 5/16/09, Adam Hupe > wrote: > > > From: Adam Hupe > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for > sale > > To: "Adam" > > Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 9:31 PM > > > > What is the official or provisional NWA number for > this > > material?? Who studied it? > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 5/16/09, Greg Catterton > > wrote: > > > > > From: Greg Catterton > > > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available > for > > sale > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Date: Saturday, May 16, 2009, 3:42 PM > > > > > > I have scoured the net checking current prices > offered > > for > > > this type Lunar meteorite and am pretty confident > that > > I can > > > beat any of the currently advertised prices on > this > > real > > > nice Lunar by $200 or more. > > > > > > I have a few samples available, those interested, > send > > me a > > > email. > > > > > > whats available? > > > > > > 6.10g with fusion crust > > > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar61ga.jpg > > > > > > 1.05g with fusion crust > > > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar105ga.jpg > > > > > > .80g > > > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar85g.jpg > > > > > > .65g > > > http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWALunar65g.jpg > > > > > > Hope all is good with everyone, > > > > > > Greg C. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From geeg48 at msn.com Sun May 17 18:25:22 2009 From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 15:25:22 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale In-Reply-To: <269355.63103.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <269355.63103.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Adam, Actually, it has *everything* to do with competition. There are those on this List, though they be few in number, who don't gouge their customers when they sell a meteorite. Too many dealers charge outrageous prices for similar products. Inevitably, I read posts from the high priced dealers putting down those dealers who give a better bargain. I'll say it again, it has everything to do with competion. As one who has limited financial resources, I have always appreciated those dealers who give a good product, while charging a *fair* price. Sometimes I have to laugh and just shake my head when I see some of the "deals" being offered by the more unreasonable, high charging dealers. Greg Lindh > Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:27:25 -0700 > From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale > > > This has nothing to do with competition. It has everything to do with proper chain of custody, legitimate nomenclature assignment, TKW figures, science and collector confidence. Just because a Moroccan dealer says something is a lunar meteorite does not make it so. Just ask the buyers who got ripped off in Tucson this year and the year before. There have been some very convincing lunar-looking Eucrites that have fooled some of the best. There was an embarrassing incident where a scientist claimed something was lunar before running all of the tests and it turned out to be a Eucrite. Many dealers had to recall the material after being in a hurry to put it on the market. > > To put things in perspective, Luniates are considered the top of the meteorite collectibles chain every since the article, "Mining for Meteorites" in the Smithsonian magazine stated so. Only advanced mineral collections incorporate Meteorite specimens. A mineral specimen is worth a fraction of its cost if the find location and history are not known. > > Advanced mineral collectors would be appalled by what has happened with Martian meteorites and self-pairings. One well-known dealer purchased material from a Moroccan who stated it was paired to one of our stones. We publicly objected to this dealer using nomenclature assigned to our stones so he sent a piece in for study. It turned out to be a completely new Martian meteorite that was almost lost to science. > > I would dislike seeing Lunar meteorites being treated the same as some Martian meteorites. Total known weights have been carefully recorded to this point and it would be a shame to lose control. > > I congratulate anybody who is able to acquire lunar material, have it Laboratory confirmed and pass the Meteoritical Society Nomenclature Committee for name assignment. It would demonstrate proper respect for some of the world's rarest material. Anything less is a disservice. Dealers are not allowed to rate their own diamonds or coins so why should meteorites that are much more rare be any different? > > > Best Regards, > > Adam > > > > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > >> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale >> To: "Greg Catterton" >> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 8:32 AM >> Be careful Greg, now that you are >> offering planetaries at reasonable >> prices, you are going to be viewed as competition by the >> big guys - >> then they will start stabbing you in the back. Those >> who are driven >> by money are threatened by those like us who don't give a >> crap about >> profits. ;) >> >> Nice lunar. If I wasn't already sitting on my fair >> share of lunars, >> I'd buy a piece. >> >> Good luck. >> >> Best regards >> >> MikeG >> >> >> >> On 5/17/09, Greg Catterton >> wrote: >>> >>> Not once did I ever say to anyone it came from you. >> Anyone who claims I did, >>> I invite them post the email where I made that >> claim... >>> >>> I am sending a sample off to be tested Monday to Tony >> Irving and the test >>> results will speak for themselves as to what this is - >> however Im sure >>> anyone can see the picture of what I have: >>> http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg >>> and compare it with this: >>> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg >>> >>> I want to state for the record, I am selling this for >> less becouse I dont >>> need to get rich off selling it. I dont sell >> meteorites to make a living, >>> pay for cars or houses... I sell them to help increase >> my personal >>> collection. >>> I know what I paid for this and if the others who have >> this paid anywhere >>> close to what I did, they could sell it for half what >> they do and still >>> triple the money they put into it - even with cutting >> loss. >>> >>> I know who I got it from is honest and reliable as for >> the authenticity. >>> >>> That said, I wont sell anymore until testing is done, >> but when it is, I will >>> sell it for well under $1,200 per gram... >>> >>> Greg C. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, habibi abdelaziz >> wrote: >>> >>>> From: habibi abdelaziz >>>> Subject: AD - Lunar available for sale >>>> To: "meteorite list" >>>> Cc: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com >>>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:32 AM >>>> >>>> hi greg >>>> this material is not from me , however >> it looks like >>>> the monzoggabro, >>>> but i m not sur is it isone from photo >>>> >>>> aziz >>>> habibi aziz >>>> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco >>>> phone. 21235576145 >>>> fax.21235576170 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> >> -- >> ......................................................... >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com >> .......................................................... >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Sun May 17 18:55:53 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 15:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale Message-ID: <151262.6366.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> How is this gouging people, over a $1,000.00 worth of lunar material started at just 99 cents? This material has been running long before this conversation started. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140320408963 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200341681245 I have several auctions running, all started at just 99 cents. Let the buyer decide who is or is not gouging as this is a ridiculous statement when it comes to me and has no merit whatsoever. Best Regards, Adam --- On Sun, 5/17/09, GREG LINDH wrote: > From: GREG LINDH > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale > To: raremeteorites at yahoo.com > Cc: "meteorite-list" > Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:25 PM > > > ? ? Adam, > > > ? ? Actually, it has *everything* to do with > competition.? There are those on this List, though they > be few in number, who don't gouge their customers when they > sell a meteorite.? Too many dealers charge outrageous > prices for similar products.? Inevitably, I read posts > from the high priced dealers putting down those dealers who > give a better bargain. > ? ? I'll say it again, it has everything to do > with competion.? As one who has limited financial > resources, I have always appreciated those dealers who give > a good product, while charging a *fair* price.? > Sometimes I have to laugh and just shake my head when I see > some of the "deals" being offered by the more unreasonable, > high charging dealers. > > ? ? Greg Lindh > > > > > ??? > > Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:27:25 -0700 > > From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for > sale > > > > > > This has nothing to do with competition. It has > everything to do with proper chain of custody, legitimate > nomenclature assignment, TKW figures, science and collector > confidence. Just because a Moroccan dealer says something is > a lunar meteorite does not make it so. Just ask the buyers > who got ripped off in Tucson this year and the year before. > There have been some very convincing lunar-looking Eucrites > that have fooled some of the best. There was an embarrassing > incident where a scientist claimed something was lunar > before running all of the tests and it turned out to be a > Eucrite. Many dealers had to recall the material after being > in a hurry to put it on the market. > > > > To put things in perspective, Luniates are considered > the top of the meteorite collectibles chain every since the > article, "Mining for Meteorites" in the Smithsonian magazine > stated so. Only advanced mineral collections incorporate > Meteorite specimens. A mineral specimen is worth a fraction > of its cost if the find location and history are not known. > > > > Advanced mineral collectors would be appalled by what > has happened with Martian meteorites and self-pairings. One > well-known dealer purchased material from a Moroccan who > stated it was paired to one of our stones. We publicly > objected to this dealer using nomenclature assigned to our > stones so he sent a piece in for study. It turned out to be > a completely new Martian meteorite that was almost lost to > science. > > > > I would dislike seeing Lunar meteorites being treated > the same as some Martian meteorites. Total known weights > have been carefully recorded to this point and it would be a > shame to lose control. > > > > I congratulate anybody who is able to acquire lunar > material, have it Laboratory confirmed and pass the > Meteoritical Society Nomenclature Committee for name > assignment. It would demonstrate proper respect for some of > the world's rarest material. Anything less is a disservice. > Dealers are not allowed to rate their own diamonds or coins > so why should meteorites that are much more rare be any > different? > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Galactic Stone & > Ironworks? wrote: > > > >> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available > for sale > >> To: "Greg Catterton" > >> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 8:32 AM > >> Be careful Greg, now that you are > >> offering planetaries at reasonable > >> prices, you are going to be viewed as competition > by the > >> big guys - > >> then they will start stabbing you in the > back.? Those > >> who are driven > >> by money are threatened by those like us who don't > give a > >> crap about > >> profits. ;) > >> > >> Nice lunar.? If I wasn't already sitting on > my fair > >> share of lunars, > >> I'd buy a piece. > >> > >> Good luck. > >> > >> Best regards > >> > >> MikeG > >> > >> > >> > >> On 5/17/09, Greg Catterton > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Not once did I ever say to anyone it came from > you. > >> Anyone who claims I did, > >>> I invite them post the email where I made > that > >> claim... > >>> > >>> I am sending a sample off to be tested Monday > to Tony > >> Irving and the test > >>> results will speak for themselves as to what > this is - > >> however Im sure > >>> anyone can see the picture of what I have: > >>> http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg > >>> and compare it with this: > >>> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg > >>> > >>> I want to state for the record, I am selling > this for > >> less becouse I dont > >>> need to get rich off selling it. I dont sell > >> meteorites to make a living, > >>> pay for cars or houses... I sell them to help > increase > >> my personal > >>> collection. > >>> I know what I paid for this and if the others > who have > >> this paid anywhere > >>> close to what I did, they could sell it for > half what > >> they do and still > >>> triple the money they put into it - even with > cutting > >> loss. > >>> > >>> I know who I got it from is honest and > reliable as for > >> the authenticity. > >>> > >>> That said, I wont sell anymore until testing > is done, > >> but when it is, I will > >>> sell it for well under $1,200 per gram... > >>> > >>> Greg C. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, habibi abdelaziz > >> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: habibi abdelaziz > >>>> Subject: AD - Lunar available for sale > >>>> To: "meteorite list" > >>>> Cc: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com > >>>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:32 AM > >>>> > >>>> hi greg > >>>> this material? is not from me ,? > however > >> it looks like > >>>> the monzoggabro, > >>>> but i m not sur is it isone from photo > >>>> > >>>> aziz > >>>>? habibi aziz > >>>> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > >>>> phone. 21235576145 > >>>> fax.21235576170 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ______________________________________________ > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > ......................................................... > >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. > >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > >> > .......................................................... > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Sun May 17 19:22:51 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 16:22:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - NWA 4734 Lunar available for sale Message-ID: <478903.2147.qm@web46409.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I have just spoken with my supplier concerning this and have been assured that it is in fact NWA 4734. quote: "the number is "NWA 4734" you don't need to present another sample for analysing" I will now offer all this material I have available of this at the low price of $1,000 per gram and I will provide full provenance with the sale. Those who have done deals with me know that I would not ever offer something I was unsure of and I have never sold anything that was not exactly what I stated it was. That said, Ted and Tony will still get the sample to verify my claims just to show anyone who doubts me that this is infact legitimate. Once testing is returned, I will raise the price to $1,100 per gram to cover the costs of the sample sent out. Hope everyone is having a good day, Greg C. From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov Sun May 17 22:09:52 2009 From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 19:09:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Strike May Have Caused Peat Bog Fire in England Message-ID: <200905180209.TAA21822@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov> http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/meteor_strike_may_have_caused_peat_bog_fire_near_carlisle_1_555728 Meteor strike may have caused peat bog fire near Carlisle By Phil Coleman News Star May 16, 2009 A huge fire which tore through a Cumbria peat bog near Carlisle may have been caused by a meteor strike, according to some locals. Firefighters spent several hours on Monday morning battling the blaze at Wedholme Flow, near Kirkbride, which at its height stretched for half a mile, leaving a wall of fire visible from miles around. It has now emerged that some residents living near the bog reported seeing a white-hot meteor streaking through the night sky. The theory is that it may have triggered fire shortly after striking the ground on Sunday night. The nature reserve is managed by Natural England. Alasdair Brock, who is senior manager at the site, helped the team of 17 firefighters who tackled the blaze. He said: "My wife Claire is a GP in Penrith, and a colleague of hers who was passing nearby saw the meteorite or something flashing through the sky in the general vicinity of the Solway mosses. "I believe this man is a reliable witness, so it's entirely feasible this happened." Natural England spokesman Will Herman said: "The meteor theory is a possible cause of the fire but there's no way now of verifying this as any meteorite is likely to have been small and would have buried itself in the peat, leaving little evidence. "Our senior manager went out the next day to check that everything was out and to have a look around. Unfortunately he saw no evidence of the meteorite." The meteor theory is thought to carry weight as the weather at the time of the fire was not particularly hot, and the area is not known for attracting vandals who might want to start fires, particularly late at night. One eyewitness who may have seen the meteor was Paula Hinds, who was sitting at home in Langholm when her attention was drawn to a skylight. "It all happened in a split second," said Paula, 29. "I saw a light, like a firework but a lot bigger. It shot across the sky. It was about 10pm and it was heading towards Carlisle. "It thought nothing more about it until the following morning when I heard about the fire and the idea that it may have been caused by a meteor." Three fire crews from Carlisle, Wigton and Silloth used beaters to kill the flames as the fire spread. A Cumbria fire service spokesman said: "The fire and smoke could be seen from several miles away." David Sparkes, 57, who lives nearby, said the fire was first spotted by his 14-year-old daughter Marie. "The whole lot went up very quickly," he said. "Normally, the wind blows towards our house but fortunately that night it wasn't. "We were out watching the fire until 12.30am." From meteoritemike at gmail.com Sun May 17 23:27:50 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 23:27:50 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : Grand Re-Opening Sale - Meteorite Books and many new specimens! Message-ID: Hi Meteorite Folks and Listees! I have finished moving to Florida and have unpacked my collection. My online store is now back up and running. I have added dozens of new specimens recently, including 15 different meteorite books, etched iron slices, darwin glass, UNWA bulk lots, shattercones, and more. I also have digital scales, jeweler's loupes, gemjars, riker boxes, and rare earth magnets. Be sure to use this coupon code at checkout - "metlist" for a 20% discount off your entire order! http://www.galactic-stone.com Feel free to email me with any questions -mike at galactic-stone.com Thanks for looking and clear skies! MikeG -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com Mon May 18 00:04:56 2009 From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 00:04:56 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - May 18, 2009 Message-ID: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_18_2009.html ___________________________ http://www.rocksfromspace.org ___________________________ **************A strong credit score is 700 or above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585011x1201462751/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115& bcd=Maystrongfooter51709NO115) From geeg48 at msn.com Mon May 18 00:37:59 2009 From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 21:37:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale References: <151262.6366.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Adam, Look, I understand that you're a big time hunter/dealer. I'm just a relatively new collector who has had to put my collecting on hold due to the "fantastic economy". So, I don't claim to know nearly as much as you as far as values, etc... But, right now, you have a 362 mg Dhofar 910 lunar which started out at $.99 and has already been bid up several times so that the bid now stands at $152.50. The time remaining until the auction ends is 1 day, 18hours. As far as I'm concerned, the most important fact follows. Everyone knows that the real action as far as bidding is concerned takes place in the last 30 seconds of the auction. Right? So, let's say that the bidding keeps rising between now and the end of the countdown. Who knows how high it will have gotten to by the time you have 30 seconds left. I can only assume from past experience that it will be higher than the present $152.50. Then, during that last 30 seconds of the auction things will really begin to pop. In the end, your "Very Last", "Rare" meteorite will have sold for what? I think a whole bunch more than $.99. Right? So, just saying that you put up lunar meteorites for $.99 is really meaningless. You know that the bidding will drive the price up into the stratosphere. The same thing can be said for your NWA 5000 (a spectacular meteorite, by the way). It started at $.99, but its already up to $331.00. The time remaining until the end of that auction is 1 day, 17 hours. Again, my guess is that it will continue to rise in price over the next day or so, reach the 30 second mark and then once again, its price will explode. So, once again, the $.99 beginning price is meaningless. As I said earlier, I'm just a small time collector. Once, I discussed the way the bidding process works here on the List about 2 years ago, and I had a dealer at that time write to me and give me a rather uncharitable lecture. In his emails to me, he didn't address me as "Greg". No, no, he addressed me as "Mr. Tight Ass". He said that I should be happy to bid multiple times and very high so that he and other dealers would be able to stay in business. Personally, I found his "reasoning" to be a bit disingenuous. When he goes into to buy a car, and the dealer says, this car cost $30,000, I wonder if he would say to the dealer, "No, no, here let me help you out. I wouldn't want you to go out of business, so I'm going to give you $80,000 for the car." Yeah, right! I've observed a few things in my time perusing this List over the past couple of years. One of the more important things is that there are some dealers who seem to give a more fair deal than others. I'm not going to put you into a category, one way or the other. I'll just say that I have found some dealers who have treated me with respect (a rare treat, indeed), and have also priced their goods in such a way that I was able to buy a few nice pieces. For what it's worth, that's the way I see things here. Regards, Greg Lindh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Hupe" To: "Adam" Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale How is this gouging people, over a $1,000.00 worth of lunar material started at just 99 cents? This material has been running long before this conversation started. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140320408963 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200341681245 I have several auctions running, all started at just 99 cents. Let the buyer decide who is or is not gouging as this is a ridiculous statement when it comes to me and has no merit whatsoever. Best Regards, Adam --- On Sun, 5/17/09, GREG LINDH wrote: > From: GREG LINDH > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale > To: raremeteorites at yahoo.com > Cc: "meteorite-list" > Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:25 PM > > > Adam, > > > Actually, it has *everything* to do with > competition. There are those on this List, though they > be few in number, who don't gouge their customers when they > sell a meteorite. Too many dealers charge outrageous > prices for similar products. Inevitably, I read posts > from the high priced dealers putting down those dealers who > give a better bargain. > I'll say it again, it has everything to do > with competion. As one who has limited financial > resources, I have always appreciated those dealers who give > a good product, while charging a *fair* price. > Sometimes I have to laugh and just shake my head when I see > some of the "deals" being offered by the more unreasonable, > high charging dealers. > > Greg Lindh > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:27:25 -0700 > > From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for > sale > > > > > > This has nothing to do with competition. It has > everything to do with proper chain of custody, legitimate > nomenclature assignment, TKW figures, science and collector > confidence. Just because a Moroccan dealer says something is > a lunar meteorite does not make it so. Just ask the buyers > who got ripped off in Tucson this year and the year before. > There have been some very convincing lunar-looking Eucrites > that have fooled some of the best. There was an embarrassing > incident where a scientist claimed something was lunar > before running all of the tests and it turned out to be a > Eucrite. Many dealers had to recall the material after being > in a hurry to put it on the market. > > > > To put things in perspective, Luniates are considered > the top of the meteorite collectibles chain every since the > article, "Mining for Meteorites" in the Smithsonian magazine > stated so. Only advanced mineral collections incorporate > Meteorite specimens. A mineral specimen is worth a fraction > of its cost if the find location and history are not known. > > > > Advanced mineral collectors would be appalled by what > has happened with Martian meteorites and self-pairings. One > well-known dealer purchased material from a Moroccan who > stated it was paired to one of our stones. We publicly > objected to this dealer using nomenclature assigned to our > stones so he sent a piece in for study. It turned out to be > a completely new Martian meteorite that was almost lost to > science. > > > > I would dislike seeing Lunar meteorites being treated > the same as some Martian meteorites. Total known weights > have been carefully recorded to this point and it would be a > shame to lose control. > > > > I congratulate anybody who is able to acquire lunar > material, have it Laboratory confirmed and pass the > Meteoritical Society Nomenclature Committee for name > assignment. It would demonstrate proper respect for some of > the world's rarest material. Anything less is a disservice. > Dealers are not allowed to rate their own diamonds or coins > so why should meteorites that are much more rare be any > different? > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Galactic Stone & > Ironworks wrote: > > > >> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available > for sale > >> To: "Greg Catterton" > >> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 8:32 AM > >> Be careful Greg, now that you are > >> offering planetaries at reasonable > >> prices, you are going to be viewed as competition > by the > >> big guys - > >> then they will start stabbing you in the > back. Those > >> who are driven > >> by money are threatened by those like us who don't > give a > >> crap about > >> profits. ;) > >> > >> Nice lunar. If I wasn't already sitting on > my fair > >> share of lunars, > >> I'd buy a piece. > >> > >> Good luck. > >> > >> Best regards > >> > >> MikeG > >> > >> > >> > >> On 5/17/09, Greg Catterton > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Not once did I ever say to anyone it came from > you. > >> Anyone who claims I did, > >>> I invite them post the email where I made > that > >> claim... > >>> > >>> I am sending a sample off to be tested Monday > to Tony > >> Irving and the test > >>> results will speak for themselves as to what > this is - > >> however Im sure > >>> anyone can see the picture of what I have: > >>> http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg > >>> and compare it with this: > >>> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg > >>> > >>> I want to state for the record, I am selling > this for > >> less becouse I dont > >>> need to get rich off selling it. I dont sell > >> meteorites to make a living, > >>> pay for cars or houses... I sell them to help > increase > >> my personal > >>> collection. > >>> I know what I paid for this and if the others > who have > >> this paid anywhere > >>> close to what I did, they could sell it for > half what > >> they do and still > >>> triple the money they put into it - even with > cutting > >> loss. > >>> > >>> I know who I got it from is honest and > reliable as for > >> the authenticity. > >>> > >>> That said, I wont sell anymore until testing > is done, > >> but when it is, I will > >>> sell it for well under $1,200 per gram... > >>> > >>> Greg C. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, habibi abdelaziz > >> wrote: > >>> > >>>> From: habibi abdelaziz > >>>> Subject: AD - Lunar available for sale > >>>> To: "meteorite list" > >>>> Cc: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com > >>>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:32 AM > >>>> > >>>> hi greg > >>>> this material is not from me , > however > >> it looks like > >>>> the monzoggabro, > >>>> but i m not sur is it isone from photo > >>>> > >>>> aziz > >>>> habibi aziz > >>>> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > >>>> phone. 21235576145 > >>>> fax.21235576170 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ______________________________________________ > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > ......................................................... > >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. > >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > >> http://www.glassthrower.com > >> > .......................................................... > >> ______________________________________________ > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From mqfowler at mac.com Mon May 18 00:52:36 2009 From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 23:52:36 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay Message-ID: I collect ungrouped irons, and am looking for a slice of Zacatecas (1792) an ungrouped iron. The specimen on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Meteorite-ZACATECAS-1792-perfect-etched-slice-12-3g_W0QQitemZ270389277772QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef474f44c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A5%7C294%3A50#ebayphotohosting does not in my opinion look like the photo in Buchwald, or match his description: "Zacatecas is remarkable in that it belongs to the rather few polycrystalline iron meteorites. The grain size ranges from 1 to 5 cm, a variation which is partly due to the random sectioning through many almost equiaxial grains. ....... The grain boundaries are also conspicuous because of the copious development of very irregular 1-3 mm wide zones of swathing kamacite. This kamacite was nucleated by the troilite and schreibersite precipitates, and by the boundary itself, and grew significantly before the bulk of the grains transformed during the primary cooling period. ...... Zacatecas may have shown a kamacite bandwith ot one time of .6 -1.0 mm, but since all taenite eventually disappeared and significant grain growth in the kamacite took place, no well defined Widmanstatten pattern is present now. In this respect, Zacatecas resembles New Baltimore, Santa Rosa and Chihuahua City." So in short, no well defined Widmanstatten pattern, unlike the photo in the ebay ad. Would anyone like to comment? Thanks, Mike Fowler Chicago ebay--starsandrocks From meteoritekid at gmail.com Mon May 18 00:54:57 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 21:54:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale In-Reply-To: References: <151262.6366.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890905172154t3c46b1dg48665532a2a03b4a@mail.gmail.com> Hola Greg, Interesting point, but kind of moot; while you are correct in stating that Adam is assuming relatively little financial risk in listing items with starting bids of $0.99, if you have problems with the prices they're fetching, the people you should be complaining to are collectors, not him. In this case, he's not the one setting the price. But then I suppose the question would be - if dealers are artificially inflating prices - and then collectors are believing that these rocks are actually worth that much - who's to blame? Do you blame the masses for their ignorance? Or do you blame the people trying to sell them at $1,000/g in the first place? It's a collector's market, Greg, and in this case, supply seems to be pretty much at the level of demand. Lunars are listed for that much - and they sell, so prices clearly aren't too high. I'd like it if they were lower, but things being what they are...well, they are what they are. I personally wouldn't pay $1,000/g for a Lunar, so I don't buy them. The one small slice we did buy (ever) was at $650/g, which is a price I consider to be fair, even considering that the monzogabbro NWA 4734 was initially being sold for $250/g directly from Morocco. I know because I edited the original seller's email to the met-list and forwarded it for him.* To that end, you're asking over four times the original asking price of the material you're selling. I wonder where the money went... Regards, Jason *In retrospect, his asking price was $250/g. The selling price, especially for larger specimens, was undoubtedly less. On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:37 PM, GREG LINDH wrote: > > ? ?Adam, > > ?Look, I understand that you're a big time hunter/dealer. ?I'm just a > relatively new collector who has had to put my collecting on hold due to the > "fantastic economy". ?So, I don't claim to know nearly as much as you as far > as values, etc... ?But, right now, you have a 362 mg Dhofar 910 lunar which > started out at $.99 and has already been bid up several times so that the > bid now stands at $152.50. ?The time remaining until the auction ends is 1 > day, 18hours. ?As far as I'm concerned, the most important fact follows. > Everyone knows that the real action as far as bidding is concerned takes > place in the last 30 seconds of the auction. ?Right? ?So, let's say that the > bidding keeps rising between now and the end of the countdown. ?Who knows > how high it will have gotten to by the time you have 30 seconds left. ?I can > only assume from past experience that it will be higher than the present > $152.50. ?Then, during that last 30 seconds of the auction things will > really begin to pop. ?In the end, your "Very Last", "Rare" meteorite will > have sold for what? ?I think a whole bunch more than $.99. ?Right? ?So, just > saying that you put up lunar meteorites for $.99 is really meaningless. ?You > know that the bidding will drive the price up into the stratosphere. > ?The same thing can be said for your NWA 5000 (a spectacular meteorite, by > the way). ?It started at $.99, but its already up to $331.00. ?The time > remaining until the end of that auction is 1 day, 17 hours. ?Again, my guess > is that it will continue to rise in price over the next day or so, reach the > 30 second mark and then once again, its price will explode. ?So, once again, > the $.99 beginning price is meaningless. > ?As I said earlier, I'm just a small time collector. Once, I discussed the > way the bidding process works here on the List about 2 years ago, and I had > a dealer at that time write to me and give me a rather uncharitable lecture. > In his emails to me, he didn't address me as "Greg". ?No, no, he addressed > me as "Mr. Tight Ass". ?He said that I should be happy to bid multiple times > and very high so that he and other dealers would be able to stay in > business. ?Personally, I found his "reasoning" to be a bit disingenuous. > When he goes into to buy a car, and the dealer says, this car cost $30,000, > I wonder if he would say to the dealer, "No, no, here let me help you out. > I wouldn't want you to go out of business, so I'm going to give you $80,000 > for the car." ?Yeah, right! > ?I've observed a few things in my time perusing this List over the past > couple of years. ?One of the more important things is that there are some > dealers who seem to give a more fair deal than others. > ?I'm not going to put you into a category, one way or the other. ?I'll just > say that I have found some dealers who have treated me with respect (a rare > treat, indeed), and have also priced their goods in such a way that I was > able to buy a few nice pieces. > ?For what it's worth, that's the way I see things here. > > ?Regards, > ? ? ? ? ? Greg Lindh > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adam Hupe" > To: "Adam" > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:55 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale > > > > How is this gouging people, over a $1,000.00 worth of lunar material started > at just 99 cents? This material has been running long before this > conversation started. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140320408963 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200341681245 > > > I have several auctions running, all started at just 99 cents. Let the buyer > decide who is or is not gouging as this is a ridiculous statement when it > comes to me and has no merit whatsoever. > > Best Regards, > > Adam > > > > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, GREG LINDH wrote: > >> From: GREG LINDH >> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale >> To: raremeteorites at yahoo.com >> Cc: "meteorite-list" >> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:25 PM >> >> >> Adam, >> >> >> Actually, it has *everything* to do with >> competition. There are those on this List, though they >> be few in number, who don't gouge their customers when they >> sell a meteorite. Too many dealers charge outrageous >> prices for similar products. Inevitably, I read posts >> from the high priced dealers putting down those dealers who >> give a better bargain. >> I'll say it again, it has everything to do >> with competion. As one who has limited financial >> resources, I have always appreciated those dealers who give >> a good product, while charging a *fair* price. >> Sometimes I have to laugh and just shake my head when I see >> some of the "deals" being offered by the more unreasonable, >> high charging dealers. >> >> Greg Lindh >> >> >> >> >> >> > Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:27:25 -0700 >> > From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com >> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for >> sale >> > >> > >> > This has nothing to do with competition. It has >> everything to do with proper chain of custody, legitimate >> nomenclature assignment, TKW figures, science and collector >> confidence. Just because a Moroccan dealer says something is >> a lunar meteorite does not make it so. Just ask the buyers >> who got ripped off in Tucson this year and the year before. >> There have been some very convincing lunar-looking Eucrites >> that have fooled some of the best. There was an embarrassing >> incident where a scientist claimed something was lunar >> before running all of the tests and it turned out to be a >> Eucrite. Many dealers had to recall the material after being >> in a hurry to put it on the market. >> > >> > To put things in perspective, Luniates are considered >> the top of the meteorite collectibles chain every since the >> article, "Mining for Meteorites" in the Smithsonian magazine >> stated so. Only advanced mineral collections incorporate >> Meteorite specimens. A mineral specimen is worth a fraction >> of its cost if the find location and history are not known. >> > >> > Advanced mineral collectors would be appalled by what >> has happened with Martian meteorites and self-pairings. One >> well-known dealer purchased material from a Moroccan who >> stated it was paired to one of our stones. We publicly >> objected to this dealer using nomenclature assigned to our >> stones so he sent a piece in for study. It turned out to be >> a completely new Martian meteorite that was almost lost to >> science. >> > >> > I would dislike seeing Lunar meteorites being treated >> the same as some Martian meteorites. Total known weights >> have been carefully recorded to this point and it would be a >> shame to lose control. >> > >> > I congratulate anybody who is able to acquire lunar >> material, have it Laboratory confirmed and pass the >> Meteoritical Society Nomenclature Committee for name >> assignment. It would demonstrate proper respect for some of >> the world's rarest material. Anything less is a disservice. >> Dealers are not allowed to rate their own diamonds or coins >> so why should meteorites that are much more rare be any >> different? >> > >> > >> > Best Regards, >> > >> > Adam >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Galactic Stone & >> Ironworks wrote: >> > >> >> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks >> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available >> for sale >> >> To: "Greg Catterton" >> >> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 8:32 AM >> >> Be careful Greg, now that you are >> >> offering planetaries at reasonable >> >> prices, you are going to be viewed as competition >> by the >> >> big guys - >> >> then they will start stabbing you in the >> back. Those >> >> who are driven >> >> by money are threatened by those like us who don't >> give a >> >> crap about >> >> profits. ;) >> >> >> >> Nice lunar. If I wasn't already sitting on >> my fair >> >> share of lunars, >> >> I'd buy a piece. >> >> >> >> Good luck. >> >> >> >> Best regards >> >> >> >> MikeG >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 5/17/09, Greg Catterton >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Not once did I ever say to anyone it came from >> you. >> >> Anyone who claims I did, >> >>> I invite them post the email where I made >> that >> >> claim... >> >>> >> >>> I am sending a sample off to be tested Monday >> to Tony >> >> Irving and the test >> >>> results will speak for themselves as to what >> this is - >> >> however Im sure >> >>> anyone can see the picture of what I have: >> >>> http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg >> >>> and compare it with this: >> >>> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg >> >>> >> >>> I want to state for the record, I am selling >> this for >> >> less becouse I dont >> >>> need to get rich off selling it. I dont sell >> >> meteorites to make a living, >> >>> pay for cars or houses... I sell them to help >> increase >> >> my personal >> >>> collection. >> >>> I know what I paid for this and if the others >> who have >> >> this paid anywhere >> >>> close to what I did, they could sell it for >> half what >> >> they do and still >> >>> triple the money they put into it - even with >> cutting >> >> loss. >> >>> >> >>> I know who I got it from is honest and >> reliable as for >> >> the authenticity. >> >>> >> >>> That said, I wont sell anymore until testing >> is done, >> >> but when it is, I will >> >>> sell it for well under $1,200 per gram... >> >>> >> >>> Greg C. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, habibi abdelaziz >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> From: habibi abdelaziz >> >>>> Subject: AD - Lunar available for sale >> >>>> To: "meteorite list" >> >>>> Cc: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com >> >>>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:32 AM >> >>>> >> >>>> hi greg >> >>>> this material is not from me , >> however >> >> it looks like >> >>>> the monzoggabro, >> >>>> but i m not sur is it isone from photo >> >>>> >> >>>> aziz >> >>>> habibi aziz >> >>>> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco >> >>>> phone. 21235576145 >> >>>> fax.21235576170 >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >> >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> ......................................................... >> >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >> >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >> >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >> >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and >> >> http://www.glassthrower.com >> >> >> .......................................................... >> >> ______________________________________________ >> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> >> > ______________________________________________ >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> > Meteorite-list mailing list >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoritekid at gmail.com Mon May 18 01:10:59 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 22:10:59 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93aaac890905172210t1a4fedabk52a62dbfaae2d336@mail.gmail.com> Hello Mike, Indeed, that's not a piece of the more common Zacatecas (1969). See here; that iron is clearly recrystallized: http://www.nyrockman.com/museum/zacatecas-1462.htm While I haven't been able to find a picture of the etch of the Zacatecas (1792) iron, I was able to find this picture of the main mass: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zacatecas_(1792)_meteorite.jpg There is more than one Zacatecas! Regards, Jason On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Michael Fowler wrote: > I collect ungrouped irons, and am looking for a slice of Zacatecas (1792) an > ungrouped iron. > > The specimen on ebay: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Meteorite-ZACATECAS-1792-perfect-etched-slice-12-3g_W0QQitemZ270389277772QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef474f44c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A5%7C294%3A50#ebayphotohosting > > does not in my opinion look like the photo in Buchwald, or match his > description: > > "Zacatecas is remarkable in that it belongs to the rather few > polycrystalline iron meteorites. ?The grain size ranges from 1 to 5 cm, a > variation which is partly due to the random sectioning through many almost > equiaxial grains. ?....... ? The grain boundaries are also conspicuous > because of the copious development of very irregular 1-3 mm wide zones of > swathing kamacite. ?This kamacite was nucleated by the troilite and > schreibersite precipitates, and by the boundary itself, and grew > significantly before the bulk of the grains transformed during the primary > cooling period. > ...... > Zacatecas may have shown a kamacite bandwith ot one time of .6 -1.0 mm, but > since all taenite eventually disappeared and significant grain growth in the > kamacite took place, no well defined Widmanstatten pattern is present now. > ?In this respect, Zacatecas resembles New Baltimore, Santa Rosa and > Chihuahua City." > > So in short, no well defined Widmanstatten pattern, unlike the photo in the > ebay ad. > > Would anyone like to comment? > > Thanks, > > Mike Fowler > Chicago > > ebay--starsandrocks > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mqfowler at mac.com Mon May 18 01:36:40 2009 From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 00:36:40 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay Message-ID: Thanks Jason, Don Edwards has a photo in the encyclopedia of meteorites, but it is not very clear. I was trying to decide if it was the re-crystalized 1969 Zacatecas or the 1792 one. I'm inclinded to think it is the 1792 Zacatecas, but there is room for confusion. http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/test/Zacatecas1792_don_edwards.jpg Mike > Hello Mike, > Indeed, that's not a piece of the more common Zacatecas (1969). > See here; that iron is clearly recrystallized: > > http://www.nyrockman.com/museum/zacatecas-1462.htm > > While I haven't been able to find a picture of the etch of the > Zacatecas (1792) iron, I was able to find this picture of the main > mass: > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zacatecas_(1792)_meteorite.jpg > > There is more than one Zacatecas! > Regards, > Jason > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Michael Fowler mac.com> wrote: > > > I collect ungrouped irons, and am looking for a slice of Zacatecas > (1792) an > > ungrouped iron. > > The specimen on ebay: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Meteorite-ZACATECAS-1792-perfect-etched-slice-12-3g_W0QQitemZ270389277772QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef474f44c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A5%7C294%3A50#ebayphotohosting > > > > does not in my opinion look like the photo in Buchwald, or match his > > description: > > > > "Zacatecas is remarkable in that it belongs to the rather few > > polycrystalline iron meteorites. The grain size ranges from 1 to > 5 cm, a > > variation which is partly due to the random sectioning through > many almost > > equiaxial grains. ....... The grain boundaries are also > conspicuous > > because of the copious development of very irregular 1-3 mm wide > zones of > swathing kamacite. This kamacite was nucleated by the troilite and > > > schreibersite precipitates, and by the boundary itself, and grew > > significantly before the bulk of the grains transformed during the > primary > > cooling period. > > ...... > > Zacatecas may have shown a kamacite bandwith ot one time of .6 > -1.0 mm, but > > since all taenite eventually disappeared and significant grain > growth in the > > kamacite took place, no well defined Widmanstatten pattern is > present now. > > In this respect, Zacatecas resembles New Baltimore, Santa Rosa and > > Chihuahua City." > > > > So in short, no well defined Widmanstatten pattern, unlike the > photo in the > > ebay ad. > > > Would anyone like to comment? > > > Thanks, > > > Mike Fowler > > > Chicago > ebay--starsandrocks From meteoritekid at gmail.com Mon May 18 01:44:33 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 22:44:33 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93aaac890905172244y346ff3dcv6ce2e441c523573b@mail.gmail.com> Hello Mike, http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/test/Zacatecas1792_don_edwards.jpg Clearly recrystallized, the piece on Don's site looks like a slice of the 1969 individual. The trouble is that if that really is a piece of the 1792 fragment, then the one on ebay isn't a piece of either iron. Hmmmm.... I'd say that the picture you found is a slice of the 1969 individual, mislabeled. Regards, Jason On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Michael Fowler wrote: > Thanks Jason, > > Don Edwards has a photo in the encyclopedia of meteorites, but it is not > very clear. ?I was trying to decide if it was the re-crystalized 1969 > Zacatecas or the 1792 one. ?I'm inclinded to think it is the 1792 Zacatecas, > but there is room for confusion. > > http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/test/Zacatecas1792_don_edwards.jpg > > Mike > >> Hello Mike, >> Indeed, that's not a piece of the more common Zacatecas (1969). >> See here; that iron is clearly recrystallized: >> >> http://www.nyrockman.com/museum/zacatecas-1462.htm >> >> While I haven't been able to find a picture of the etch of the >> Zacatecas (1792) iron, I was able to find this picture of the main >> mass: >> >> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zacatecas_(1792)_meteorite.jpg >> >> There is more than one Zacatecas! >> Regards, >> Jason >> >> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Michael Fowler >> wrote: >> >> > I collect ungrouped irons, and am looking for a slice of Zacatecas >> > (1792) an >> > ungrouped iron. >> > The specimen on ebay: >> >> > >> > http://cgi.ebay.com/Meteorite-ZACATECAS-1792-perfect-etched-slice-12-3g_W0QQitemZ270389277772QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef474f44c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A5%7C294%3A50#ebayphotohosting >> >> >> > does not in my opinion look like the photo in Buchwald, or match his >> > description: >> > >> > "Zacatecas is remarkable in that it belongs to the rather few >> > polycrystalline iron meteorites. ?The grain size ranges from 1 to 5 cm, >> > a >> > variation which is partly due to the random sectioning through many >> > almost >> > equiaxial grains. ?....... ? The grain boundaries are also conspicuous >> > because of the copious development of very irregular 1-3 mm wide zones >> > of > >> swathing kamacite. ?This kamacite was nucleated by the troilite and >> >> > schreibersite precipitates, and by the boundary itself, and grew >> > significantly before the bulk of the grains transformed during the >> > primary >> > cooling period. >> > ...... >> > Zacatecas may have shown a kamacite bandwith ot one time of .6 -1.0 mm, >> > but >> > since all taenite eventually disappeared and significant grain growth in >> > the >> > kamacite took place, no well defined Widmanstatten pattern is present >> > now. >> > ?In this respect, Zacatecas resembles New Baltimore, Santa Rosa and >> > Chihuahua City." >> > >> > So in short, no well defined Widmanstatten pattern, unlike the photo in >> > the >> > ebay ad. >> >> > Would anyone like to comment? >> >> > Thanks, >> >> > Mike Fowler >> >> > Chicago > > >> ebay--starsandrocks______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From geeg48 at msn.com Mon May 18 01:44:57 2009 From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 22:44:57 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale In-Reply-To: <93aaac890905172154t3c46b1dg48665532a2a03b4a@mail.gmail.com> References: <151262.6366.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <93aaac890905172154t3c46b1dg48665532a2a03b4a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Jason, Believe me when I tell you, I understand the "law of supply and demand". My main point is that there are some hunter/dealers who are definitely more reasonable than others. I have what I consider to be some very nice specimens in my rather small collection. The people who sold them to me did so at reasonable, fair prices. Some I bought as "Buy Nows" and some I bid for. I always did well on the bid items. I always won and the price was right. I made the mistake of saying on the List that I would always wait until the last second to place my bid. That is what instigated the rather rude dealer to address me as "Mr. Tight Ass" and I believe he said that people like me should be "shot" or "hung"...I can't remember which. Unfortunately, he is typical of many here on the List. This is not a blanket statement. I have wrtten to and dealt with some very amiable and fair people, who not only sent me meteorites, but also much information and encouragement. I only wish that there were more like that here. Best regards, Greg Lindh ---------------------------------------- > Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 21:54:57 -0700 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale > From: meteoritekid at gmail.com > To: geeg48 at msn.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Hola Greg, > Interesting point, but kind of moot; while you are correct in stating > that Adam is assuming relatively little financial risk in listing > items with starting bids of $0.99, if you have problems with the > prices they're fetching, the people you should be complaining to are > collectors, not him. In this case, he's not the one setting the > price. > But then I suppose the question would be - if dealers are artificially > inflating prices - and then collectors are believing that these rocks > are actually worth that much - who's to blame? Do you blame the > masses for their ignorance? Or do you blame the people trying to sell > them at $1,000/g in the first place? It's a collector's market, Greg, > and in this case, supply seems to be pretty much at the level of > demand. Lunars are listed for that much - and they sell, so prices > clearly aren't too high. I'd like it if they were lower, but things > being what they are...well, they are what they are. I personally > wouldn't pay $1,000/g for a Lunar, so I don't buy them. The one small > slice we did buy (ever) was at $650/g, which is a price I consider to > be fair, even considering that the monzogabbro NWA 4734 was initially > being sold for $250/g directly from Morocco. I know because I edited > the original seller's email to the met-list and forwarded it for him.* > To that end, you're asking over four times the original asking price > of the material you're selling. I wonder where the money went... > Regards, > Jason > > *In retrospect, his asking price was $250/g. The selling price, > especially for larger specimens, was undoubtedly less. > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:37 PM, GREG LINDH wrote: >> >> Adam, >> >> Look, I understand that you're a big time hunter/dealer. I'm just a >> relatively new collector who has had to put my collecting on hold due to the >> "fantastic economy". So, I don't claim to know nearly as much as you as far >> as values, etc... But, right now, you have a 362 mg Dhofar 910 lunar which >> started out at $.99 and has already been bid up several times so that the >> bid now stands at $152.50. The time remaining until the auction ends is 1 >> day, 18hours. As far as I'm concerned, the most important fact follows. >> Everyone knows that the real action as far as bidding is concerned takes >> place in the last 30 seconds of the auction. Right? So, let's say that the >> bidding keeps rising between now and the end of the countdown. Who knows >> how high it will have gotten to by the time you have 30 seconds left. I can >> only assume from past experience that it will be higher than the present >> $152.50. Then, during that last 30 seconds of the auction things will >> really begin to pop. In the end, your "Very Last", "Rare" meteorite will >> have sold for what? I think a whole bunch more than $.99. Right? So, just >> saying that you put up lunar meteorites for $.99 is really meaningless. You >> know that the bidding will drive the price up into the stratosphere. >> The same thing can be said for your NWA 5000 (a spectacular meteorite, by >> the way). It started at $.99, but its already up to $331.00. The time >> remaining until the end of that auction is 1 day, 17 hours. Again, my guess >> is that it will continue to rise in price over the next day or so, reach the >> 30 second mark and then once again, its price will explode. So, once again, >> the $.99 beginning price is meaningless. >> As I said earlier, I'm just a small time collector. Once, I discussed the >> way the bidding process works here on the List about 2 years ago, and I had >> a dealer at that time write to me and give me a rather uncharitable lecture. >> In his emails to me, he didn't address me as "Greg". No, no, he addressed >> me as "Mr. Tight Ass". He said that I should be happy to bid multiple times >> and very high so that he and other dealers would be able to stay in >> business. Personally, I found his "reasoning" to be a bit disingenuous. >> When he goes into to buy a car, and the dealer says, this car cost $30,000, >> I wonder if he would say to the dealer, "No, no, here let me help you out. >> I wouldn't want you to go out of business, so I'm going to give you $80,000 >> for the car." Yeah, right! >> I've observed a few things in my time perusing this List over the past >> couple of years. One of the more important things is that there are some >> dealers who seem to give a more fair deal than others. >> I'm not going to put you into a category, one way or the other. I'll just >> say that I have found some dealers who have treated me with respect (a rare >> treat, indeed), and have also priced their goods in such a way that I was >> able to buy a few nice pieces. >> For what it's worth, that's the way I see things here. >> >> Regards, >> Greg Lindh >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Adam Hupe" >> To: "Adam" >> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:55 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale >> >> >> >> How is this gouging people, over a $1,000.00 worth of lunar material started >> at just 99 cents? This material has been running long before this >> conversation started. >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140320408963 >> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200341681245 >> >> >> I have several auctions running, all started at just 99 cents. Let the buyer >> decide who is or is not gouging as this is a ridiculous statement when it >> comes to me and has no merit whatsoever. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Adam >> >> >> >> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, GREG LINDH wrote: >> >>> From: GREG LINDH >>> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale >>> To: raremeteorites at yahoo.com >>> Cc: "meteorite-list" >>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:25 PM >>> >>> >>> Adam, >>> >>> >>> Actually, it has *everything* to do with >>> competition. There are those on this List, though they >>> be few in number, who don't gouge their customers when they >>> sell a meteorite. Too many dealers charge outrageous >>> prices for similar products. Inevitably, I read posts >>> from the high priced dealers putting down those dealers who >>> give a better bargain. >>> I'll say it again, it has everything to do >>> with competion. As one who has limited financial >>> resources, I have always appreciated those dealers who give >>> a good product, while charging a *fair* price. >>> Sometimes I have to laugh and just shake my head when I see >>> some of the "deals" being offered by the more unreasonable, >>> high charging dealers. >>> >>> Greg Lindh >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:27:25 -0700 >>>> From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com >>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for >>> sale >>>> >>>> >>>> This has nothing to do with competition. It has >>> everything to do with proper chain of custody, legitimate >>> nomenclature assignment, TKW figures, science and collector >>> confidence. Just because a Moroccan dealer says something is >>> a lunar meteorite does not make it so. Just ask the buyers >>> who got ripped off in Tucson this year and the year before. >>> There have been some very convincing lunar-looking Eucrites >>> that have fooled some of the best. There was an embarrassing >>> incident where a scientist claimed something was lunar >>> before running all of the tests and it turned out to be a >>> Eucrite. Many dealers had to recall the material after being >>> in a hurry to put it on the market. >>>> >>>> To put things in perspective, Luniates are considered >>> the top of the meteorite collectibles chain every since the >>> article, "Mining for Meteorites" in the Smithsonian magazine >>> stated so. Only advanced mineral collections incorporate >>> Meteorite specimens. A mineral specimen is worth a fraction >>> of its cost if the find location and history are not known. >>>> >>>> Advanced mineral collectors would be appalled by what >>> has happened with Martian meteorites and self-pairings. One >>> well-known dealer purchased material from a Moroccan who >>> stated it was paired to one of our stones. We publicly >>> objected to this dealer using nomenclature assigned to our >>> stones so he sent a piece in for study. It turned out to be >>> a completely new Martian meteorite that was almost lost to >>> science. >>>> >>>> I would dislike seeing Lunar meteorites being treated >>> the same as some Martian meteorites. Total known weights >>> have been carefully recorded to this point and it would be a >>> shame to lose control. >>>> >>>> I congratulate anybody who is able to acquire lunar >>> material, have it Laboratory confirmed and pass the >>> Meteoritical Society Nomenclature Committee for name >>> assignment. It would demonstrate proper respect for some of >>> the world's rarest material. Anything less is a disservice. >>> Dealers are not allowed to rate their own diamonds or coins >>> so why should meteorites that are much more rare be any >>> different? >>>> >>>> >>>> Best Regards, >>>> >>>> Adam >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Galactic Stone & >>> Ironworks wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks >>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available >>> for sale >>>>> To: "Greg Catterton" >>>>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 8:32 AM >>>>> Be careful Greg, now that you are >>>>> offering planetaries at reasonable >>>>> prices, you are going to be viewed as competition >>> by the >>>>> big guys - >>>>> then they will start stabbing you in the >>> back. Those >>>>> who are driven >>>>> by money are threatened by those like us who don't >>> give a >>>>> crap about >>>>> profits. ;) >>>>> >>>>> Nice lunar. If I wasn't already sitting on >>> my fair >>>>> share of lunars, >>>>> I'd buy a piece. >>>>> >>>>> Good luck. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards >>>>> >>>>> MikeG >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5/17/09, Greg Catterton >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Not once did I ever say to anyone it came from >>> you. >>>>> Anyone who claims I did, >>>>>> I invite them post the email where I made >>> that >>>>> claim... >>>>>> >>>>>> I am sending a sample off to be tested Monday >>> to Tony >>>>> Irving and the test >>>>>> results will speak for themselves as to what >>> this is - >>>>> however Im sure >>>>>> anyone can see the picture of what I have: >>>>>> http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg >>>>>> and compare it with this: >>>>>> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg >>>>>> >>>>>> I want to state for the record, I am selling >>> this for >>>>> less becouse I dont >>>>>> need to get rich off selling it. I dont sell >>>>> meteorites to make a living, >>>>>> pay for cars or houses... I sell them to help >>> increase >>>>> my personal >>>>>> collection. >>>>>> I know what I paid for this and if the others >>> who have >>>>> this paid anywhere >>>>>> close to what I did, they could sell it for >>> half what >>>>> they do and still >>>>>> triple the money they put into it - even with >>> cutting >>>>> loss. >>>>>> >>>>>> I know who I got it from is honest and >>> reliable as for >>>>> the authenticity. >>>>>> >>>>>> That said, I wont sell anymore until testing >>> is done, >>>>> but when it is, I will >>>>>> sell it for well under $1,200 per gram... >>>>>> >>>>>> Greg C. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, habibi abdelaziz >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From: habibi abdelaziz >>>>>>> Subject: AD - Lunar available for sale >>>>>>> To: "meteorite list" >>>>>>> Cc: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com >>>>>>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:32 AM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> hi greg >>>>>>> this material is not from me , >>> however >>>>> it looks like >>>>>>> the monzoggabro, >>>>>>> but i m not sur is it isone from photo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> aziz >>>>>>> habibi aziz >>>>>>> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco >>>>>>> phone. 21235576145 >>>>>>> fax.21235576170 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>> ......................................................... >>>>> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >>>>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >>>>> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >>>>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and >>>>> http://www.glassthrower.com >>>>> >>> .......................................................... >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> From meteoritekid at gmail.com Mon May 18 02:11:03 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 23:11:03 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale In-Reply-To: References: <151262.6366.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <93aaac890905172154t3c46b1dg48665532a2a03b4a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890905172311s3db3fa8apdc9b8b00fb48c3c@mail.gmail.com> Hola Greg, So you call them greedy because they call you stingy...seems like we have dealers calling thrifty collectors like you and me "Tight Asses" and, well, you're doing better by criticizing them for asking for higher prices, but you're pretty much doing the same thing to them, notably without the profanity. I will say that I agree with your strategy, and that the dealers criticizing you have undoubtedly used it in the past as well; I don't know anyone who seriously uses ebay as a buyer and doesn't snipe. But there you go - people will be hypocrites. I'm with you on this one; if anyone criticizes you for doing that, they should take all of their material off of ebay and sell retail only. Or even better - a blind auction where no one knows what the others are bidding or if they are in the lead. That's the only way to get rid of such tactics. But I have the feeling that it would backfire, unless truly spectacular specimens were involved. Regards, Jason On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 10:44 PM, GREG LINDH wrote: > > > ? ?Hi Jason, > > ?Believe me when I tell you, I understand the "law of supply and demand". ?My main point is that there are some hunter/dealers who are definitely more reasonable than others. ?I have what I consider to be some very nice specimens in my rather small collection. ?The people who sold them to me did so at reasonable, fair prices. ?Some I bought as "Buy Nows" and some I bid for. ?I always did well on the bid items. ?I always won and the price was right. ?I made the mistake of saying on the List that I would always wait until the last second to place my bid. ?That is what instigated the rather rude dealer to address me as "Mr. Tight Ass" and ?I believe he said that people like me should be "shot" or "hung"...I can't remember which. ?Unfortunately, he is typical of many here on the List. ?This is not a blanket statement. ?I have wrtten to and dealt with some very amiable and fair people, who not only sent me meteorites, but also much information and encouragement. ?I only wish that there were more like that here. > > > ?Best regards, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Greg Lindh > > > > > ---------------------------------------- >> Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 21:54:57 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale >> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com >> To: geeg48 at msn.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> >> Hola Greg, >> Interesting point, but kind of moot; while you are correct in stating >> that Adam is assuming relatively little financial risk in listing >> items with starting bids of $0.99, if you have problems with the >> prices they're fetching, the people you should be complaining to are >> collectors, not him. In this case, he's not the one setting the >> price. >> But then I suppose the question would be - if dealers are artificially >> inflating prices - and then collectors are believing that these rocks >> are actually worth that much - who's to blame? Do you blame the >> masses for their ignorance? Or do you blame the people trying to sell >> them at $1,000/g in the first place? It's a collector's market, Greg, >> and in this case, supply seems to be pretty much at the level of >> demand. Lunars are listed for that much - and they sell, so prices >> clearly aren't too high. I'd like it if they were lower, but things >> being what they are...well, they are what they are. I personally >> wouldn't pay $1,000/g for a Lunar, so I don't buy them. The one small >> slice we did buy (ever) was at $650/g, which is a price I consider to >> be fair, even considering that the monzogabbro NWA 4734 was initially >> being sold for $250/g directly from Morocco. I know because I edited >> the original seller's email to the met-list and forwarded it for him.* >> To that end, you're asking over four times the original asking price >> of the material you're selling. I wonder where the money went... >> Regards, >> Jason >> >> *In retrospect, his asking price was $250/g. The selling price, >> especially for larger specimens, was undoubtedly less. >> >> >> >> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:37 PM, GREG LINDH wrote: >>> >>> Adam, >>> >>> Look, I understand that you're a big time hunter/dealer. I'm just a >>> relatively new collector who has had to put my collecting on hold due to the >>> "fantastic economy". So, I don't claim to know nearly as much as you as far >>> as values, etc... But, right now, you have a 362 mg Dhofar 910 lunar which >>> started out at $.99 and has already been bid up several times so that the >>> bid now stands at $152.50. The time remaining until the auction ends is 1 >>> day, 18hours. As far as I'm concerned, the most important fact follows. >>> Everyone knows that the real action as far as bidding is concerned takes >>> place in the last 30 seconds of the auction. Right? So, let's say that the >>> bidding keeps rising between now and the end of the countdown. Who knows >>> how high it will have gotten to by the time you have 30 seconds left. I can >>> only assume from past experience that it will be higher than the present >>> $152.50. Then, during that last 30 seconds of the auction things will >>> really begin to pop. In the end, your "Very Last", "Rare" meteorite will >>> have sold for what? I think a whole bunch more than $.99. Right? So, just >>> saying that you put up lunar meteorites for $.99 is really meaningless. You >>> know that the bidding will drive the price up into the stratosphere. >>> The same thing can be said for your NWA 5000 (a spectacular meteorite, by >>> the way). It started at $.99, but its already up to $331.00. The time >>> remaining until the end of that auction is 1 day, 17 hours. Again, my guess >>> is that it will continue to rise in price over the next day or so, reach the >>> 30 second mark and then once again, its price will explode. So, once again, >>> the $.99 beginning price is meaningless. >>> As I said earlier, I'm just a small time collector. Once, I discussed the >>> way the bidding process works here on the List about 2 years ago, and I had >>> a dealer at that time write to me and give me a rather uncharitable lecture. >>> In his emails to me, he didn't address me as "Greg". No, no, he addressed >>> me as "Mr. Tight Ass". He said that I should be happy to bid multiple times >>> and very high so that he and other dealers would be able to stay in >>> business. Personally, I found his "reasoning" to be a bit disingenuous. >>> When he goes into to buy a car, and the dealer says, this car cost $30,000, >>> I wonder if he would say to the dealer, "No, no, here let me help you out. >>> I wouldn't want you to go out of business, so I'm going to give you $80,000 >>> for the car." Yeah, right! >>> I've observed a few things in my time perusing this List over the past >>> couple of years. One of the more important things is that there are some >>> dealers who seem to give a more fair deal than others. >>> I'm not going to put you into a category, one way or the other. I'll just >>> say that I have found some dealers who have treated me with respect (a rare >>> treat, indeed), and have also priced their goods in such a way that I was >>> able to buy a few nice pieces. >>> For what it's worth, that's the way I see things here. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Greg Lindh >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Adam Hupe" >>> To: "Adam" >>> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:55 PM >>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale >>> >>> >>> >>> How is this gouging people, over a $1,000.00 worth of lunar material started >>> at just 99 cents? This material has been running long before this >>> conversation started. >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140320408963 >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200341681245 >>> >>> >>> I have several auctions running, all started at just 99 cents. Let the buyer >>> decide who is or is not gouging as this is a ridiculous statement when it >>> comes to me and has no merit whatsoever. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> >>> Adam >>> >>> >>> >>> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, GREG LINDH wrote: >>> >>>> From: GREG LINDH >>>> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale >>>> To: raremeteorites at yahoo.com >>>> Cc: "meteorite-list" >>>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:25 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> Adam, >>>> >>>> >>>> Actually, it has *everything* to do with >>>> competition. There are those on this List, though they >>>> be few in number, who don't gouge their customers when they >>>> sell a meteorite. Too many dealers charge outrageous >>>> prices for similar products. Inevitably, I read posts >>>> from the high priced dealers putting down those dealers who >>>> give a better bargain. >>>> I'll say it again, it has everything to do >>>> with competion. As one who has limited financial >>>> resources, I have always appreciated those dealers who give >>>> a good product, while charging a *fair* price. >>>> Sometimes I have to laugh and just shake my head when I see >>>> some of the "deals" being offered by the more unreasonable, >>>> high charging dealers. >>>> >>>> Greg Lindh >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:27:25 -0700 >>>>> From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com >>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for >>>> sale >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This has nothing to do with competition. It has >>>> everything to do with proper chain of custody, legitimate >>>> nomenclature assignment, TKW figures, science and collector >>>> confidence. Just because a Moroccan dealer says something is >>>> a lunar meteorite does not make it so. Just ask the buyers >>>> who got ripped off in Tucson this year and the year before. >>>> There have been some very convincing lunar-looking Eucrites >>>> that have fooled some of the best. There was an embarrassing >>>> incident where a scientist claimed something was lunar >>>> before running all of the tests and it turned out to be a >>>> Eucrite. Many dealers had to recall the material after being >>>> in a hurry to put it on the market. >>>>> >>>>> To put things in perspective, Luniates are considered >>>> the top of the meteorite collectibles chain every since the >>>> article, "Mining for Meteorites" in the Smithsonian magazine >>>> stated so. Only advanced mineral collections incorporate >>>> Meteorite specimens. A mineral specimen is worth a fraction >>>> of its cost if the find location and history are not known. >>>>> >>>>> Advanced mineral collectors would be appalled by what >>>> has happened with Martian meteorites and self-pairings. One >>>> well-known dealer purchased material from a Moroccan who >>>> stated it was paired to one of our stones. We publicly >>>> objected to this dealer using nomenclature assigned to our >>>> stones so he sent a piece in for study. It turned out to be >>>> a completely new Martian meteorite that was almost lost to >>>> science. >>>>> >>>>> I would dislike seeing Lunar meteorites being treated >>>> the same as some Martian meteorites. Total known weights >>>> have been carefully recorded to this point and it would be a >>>> shame to lose control. >>>>> >>>>> I congratulate anybody who is able to acquire lunar >>>> material, have it Laboratory confirmed and pass the >>>> Meteoritical Society Nomenclature Committee for name >>>> assignment. It would demonstrate proper respect for some of >>>> the world's rarest material. Anything less is a disservice. >>>> Dealers are not allowed to rate their own diamonds or coins >>>> so why should meteorites that are much more rare be any >>>> different? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Best Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Adam >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Galactic Stone & >>>> Ironworks wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks >>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available >>>> for sale >>>>>> To: "Greg Catterton" >>>>>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 8:32 AM >>>>>> Be careful Greg, now that you are >>>>>> offering planetaries at reasonable >>>>>> prices, you are going to be viewed as competition >>>> by the >>>>>> big guys - >>>>>> then they will start stabbing you in the >>>> back. Those >>>>>> who are driven >>>>>> by money are threatened by those like us who don't >>>> give a >>>>>> crap about >>>>>> profits. ;) >>>>>> >>>>>> Nice lunar. If I wasn't already sitting on >>>> my fair >>>>>> share of lunars, >>>>>> I'd buy a piece. >>>>>> >>>>>> Good luck. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best regards >>>>>> >>>>>> MikeG >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 5/17/09, Greg Catterton >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Not once did I ever say to anyone it came from >>>> you. >>>>>> Anyone who claims I did, >>>>>>> I invite them post the email where I made >>>> that >>>>>> claim... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am sending a sample off to be tested Monday >>>> to Tony >>>>>> Irving and the test >>>>>>> results will speak for themselves as to what >>>> this is - >>>>>> however Im sure >>>>>>> anyone can see the picture of what I have: >>>>>>> http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg >>>>>>> and compare it with this: >>>>>>> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I want to state for the record, I am selling >>>> this for >>>>>> less becouse I dont >>>>>>> need to get rich off selling it. I dont sell >>>>>> meteorites to make a living, >>>>>>> pay for cars or houses... I sell them to help >>>> increase >>>>>> my personal >>>>>>> collection. >>>>>>> I know what I paid for this and if the others >>>> who have >>>>>> this paid anywhere >>>>>>> close to what I did, they could sell it for >>>> half what >>>>>> they do and still >>>>>>> triple the money they put into it - even with >>>> cutting >>>>>> loss. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know who I got it from is honest and >>>> reliable as for >>>>>> the authenticity. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That said, I wont sell anymore until testing >>>> is done, >>>>>> but when it is, I will >>>>>>> sell it for well under $1,200 per gram... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Greg C. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, habibi abdelaziz >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: habibi abdelaziz >>>>>>>> Subject: AD - Lunar available for sale >>>>>>>> To: "meteorite list" >>>>>>>> Cc: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com >>>>>>>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:32 AM >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> hi greg >>>>>>>> this material is not from me , >>>> however >>>>>> it looks like >>>>>>>> the monzoggabro, >>>>>>>> but i m not sur is it isone from photo >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> aziz >>>>>>>> habibi aziz >>>>>>>> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco >>>>>>>> phone. 21235576145 >>>>>>>> fax.21235576170 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>> ......................................................... >>>>>> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) >>>>>> Member of the Meteoritical Society. >>>>>> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. >>>>>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and >>>>>> http://www.glassthrower.com >>>>>> >>>> .......................................................... >>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> From m_graul at yahoo.de Mon May 18 03:03:31 2009 From: m_graul at yahoo.de (Mirko Graul) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 07:03:31 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay Message-ID: <834471.33530.qm@web26303.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> .......oh,a discussion about my iron at ebay. Hi Mike and Jason, Zacatecas (1792) is not the same as Zacatecas (1969). All the photos were shown is Zacatecas (1969). That is a strong recrystallized iron and easy to recognize. I think(and not only think) i am sure,that the photo in encyclopedia of meteorites is a mistake. Don, what do you think? My Zacatecas 1792 is real. I have it from a German dealer. And this dealer is certainly the same source, where her other collectors piece for the collection have received. Perhaps even someone a picture for all present here for comparison. Many greetings Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de Member of The Meteoritical Society (International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) --- Michael Fowler schrieb am Mo, 18.5.2009: > Von: Michael Fowler > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > CC: "Michael Fowler" > Datum: Montag, 18. Mai 2009, 7:36 > Thanks Jason, > > Don Edwards has a photo in the encyclopedia of meteorites, > but it is not very clear.? I was trying to decide if it > was the re-crystalized 1969 Zacatecas or the 1792 one.? > I'm inclinded to think it is the 1792 Zacatecas, but there > is room for confusion. > > http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/test/Zacatecas1792_don_edwards.jpg > > Mike > > > Hello Mike, > > Indeed, that's not a piece of the more common > Zacatecas (1969). > > See here; that iron is clearly recrystallized: > > > > http://www.nyrockman.com/museum/zacatecas-1462.htm > > > > While I haven't been able to find a picture of the > etch of the > > Zacatecas (1792) iron, I was able to find this picture > of the main > > mass: > > > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zacatecas_(1792)_meteorite.jpg > > > > There is more than one Zacatecas! > > Regards, > > Jason > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Michael Fowler > wrote: > > > > > I collect ungrouped irons, and am looking for a > slice of Zacatecas (1792) an > > > ungrouped iron. > > > The specimen on ebay: > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Meteorite-ZACATECAS-1792-perfect-etched-slice-12-3g_W0QQitemZ270389277772QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef474f44c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A5%7C294%3A50#ebayphotohosting > > > > > > > does not in my opinion look like the photo in > Buchwald, or match his > > > description: > > > > > > "Zacatecas is remarkable in that it belongs to > the rather few > > > polycrystalline iron meteorites.? The grain > size ranges from 1 to 5 cm, a > > > variation which is partly due to the random > sectioning through many almost > > > equiaxial grains.? > .......???The grain boundaries are also > conspicuous > > > because of the copious development of very > irregular 1-3 mm wide zones of > > swathing kamacite.? This kamacite was nucleated > by the troilite and > > > > > schreibersite precipitates, and by the boundary > itself, and grew > > > significantly before the bulk of the grains > transformed during the primary > > > cooling period. > > > ...... > > > Zacatecas may have shown a kamacite bandwith ot > one time of .6 -1.0 mm, but > > > since all taenite eventually disappeared and > significant grain growth in the > > > kamacite took place, no well defined > Widmanstatten pattern is present now. > > >? In this respect, Zacatecas resembles New > Baltimore, Santa Rosa and > > > Chihuahua City." > > > > > > So in short, no well defined Widmanstatten > pattern, unlike the photo in the > > > ebay ad. > > > > > Would anyone like to comment? > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Mike Fowler > > > > > Chicago > > > > > ebay--starsandrocks______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From meteoritekid at gmail.com Mon May 18 03:09:42 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 00:09:42 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay In-Reply-To: <834471.33530.qm@web26303.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <834471.33530.qm@web26303.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <93aaac890905180009j24508b38ie46da014eaacfc50@mail.gmail.com> Hello Mirko, Without ever having seen a piece of Zacatecas 1792, I would side with you; the piece of Zacatecas listed on the website does look exactly like the 1969 mass. That said, the picture that I posted of the whole mass: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zacatecas_(1792)_meteorite.jpg Is NOT of the 1969 mass. That is the 1792 mass. But as I said, I couldn't find a picture of an etched slice of the 1792 mass other than the ones you posted on ebay. Regards, Jason On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 12:03 AM, Mirko Graul wrote: > > .......oh,a discussion about my iron at ebay. > > Hi Mike and Jason, > > Zacatecas (1792) is not the same as Zacatecas (1969). > All the photos were shown is Zacatecas (1969). > That is a strong recrystallized iron and easy to recognize. > I think(and not only think) i am sure,that the photo in > encyclopedia of meteorites is a mistake. > Don, what do you think? > > My Zacatecas 1792 is real. > I have it from a German dealer. > And this dealer is certainly the same source, where her other collectors piece for the collection have received. > Perhaps even someone a picture for all present here for comparison. > > Many greetings Mirko > > > > Mirko Graul Meteorite > Quittenring.4 > 16321 Bernau > GERMANY > > Phone: 0049-1724105015 > E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de > WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de > > Member of The Meteoritical Society > (International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) > > IMCA-Member: 2113 > (International Meteorite Collectors Association) > > > --- Michael Fowler schrieb am Mo, 18.5.2009: > >> Von: Michael Fowler >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay >> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> CC: "Michael Fowler" >> Datum: Montag, 18. Mai 2009, 7:36 >> Thanks Jason, >> >> Don Edwards has a photo in the encyclopedia of meteorites, >> but it is not very clear.? I was trying to decide if it >> was the re-crystalized 1969 Zacatecas or the 1792 one. >> I'm inclinded to think it is the 1792 Zacatecas, but there >> is room for confusion. >> >> http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/test/Zacatecas1792_don_edwards.jpg >> >> Mike >> >> > Hello Mike, >> > Indeed, that's not a piece of the more common >> Zacatecas (1969). >> > See here; that iron is clearly recrystallized: >> > >> > http://www.nyrockman.com/museum/zacatecas-1462.htm >> > >> > While I haven't been able to find a picture of the >> etch of the >> > Zacatecas (1792) iron, I was able to find this picture >> of the main >> > mass: >> > >> > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zacatecas_(1792)_meteorite.jpg >> > >> > There is more than one Zacatecas! >> > Regards, >> > Jason >> > >> > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Michael Fowler >> wrote: >> > >> > > I collect ungrouped irons, and am looking for a >> slice of Zacatecas (1792) an >> > > ungrouped iron. >> > > The specimen on ebay: >> > >> > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Meteorite-ZACATECAS-1792-perfect-etched-slice-12-3g_W0QQitemZ270389277772QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef474f44c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A5%7C294%3A50#ebayphotohosting >> > >> > >> > > does not in my opinion look like the photo in >> Buchwald, or match his >> > > description: >> > > >> > > "Zacatecas is remarkable in that it belongs to >> the rather few >> > > polycrystalline iron meteorites.? The grain >> size ranges from 1 to 5 cm, a >> > > variation which is partly due to the random >> sectioning through many almost >> > > equiaxial grains. >> .......???The grain boundaries are also >> conspicuous >> > > because of the copious development of very >> irregular 1-3 mm wide zones of >> > swathing kamacite.? This kamacite was nucleated >> by the troilite and >> > >> > > schreibersite precipitates, and by the boundary >> itself, and grew >> > > significantly before the bulk of the grains >> transformed during the primary >> > > cooling period. >> > > ...... >> > > Zacatecas may have shown a kamacite bandwith ot >> one time of .6 -1.0 mm, but >> > > since all taenite eventually disappeared and >> significant grain growth in the >> > > kamacite took place, no well defined >> Widmanstatten pattern is present now. >> > >? In this respect, Zacatecas resembles New >> Baltimore, Santa Rosa and >> > > Chihuahua City." >> > > >> > > So in short, no well defined Widmanstatten >> pattern, unlike the photo in the >> > > ebay ad. >> > >> > > Would anyone like to comment? >> > >> > > Thanks, >> > >> > > Mike Fowler >> > >> > > Chicago >> >> >> > >> ebay--starsandrocks______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From mstreman53 at yahoo.com Mon May 18 03:44:48 2009 From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 00:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions Message-ID: <351943.33450.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com> A couple of points related to the questions posed The Ries impactor is believed to have hurled multi-ton limestone sections up slope onto the Alps, 100km/60miles away. It was far larger than Tunguska and a different scenario all together save for it could have been a dead comet and related to the Carbonaceous meteorites. I believe that Taggish Lake Redeux within a few months found all of this carbonaceous meteorite left originally on the surface had turned entirely to "mud". So other than sediments it is perfectly plausible that Tunguska left no macro objects that survived long. Elton From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de Mon May 18 06:00:42 2009 From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de) Date: 18 May 2009 10:00:42 UT Subject: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas 1792 Message-ID: Hello Michael, Jason, Mirko and List, Attached to my private mails you'll find a photo of the Zacatecas 1792 iron from the Buchwald trilogy! Reference: BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Volume 2, p. 1364. Regards, Bernd To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Cc: m_graul at yahoo.de mqfowler at mac.com meteoritekid at gmail.com From meteoritekid at gmail.com Mon May 18 06:28:26 2009 From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 03:28:26 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas 1792 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93aaac890905180328j6e7f8f82n2bf7ab587a13cb7b@mail.gmail.com> Well that looks practically nothing like the piece on ebay, even given the fact that the scale is clearly far larger in that image. The brain-like schreibersite in the ebay auction is a fairly uncommon occurrence in irons, and I see no similar inclusions in that large section. Also, the pattern in the ebay piece seems much more regular and is better defined. While the ebay specimen certainly doesn't resemble any common irons on the market (Gibeon, CD, Campo, Tres Castillos, etc.), it does not appear to be a piece of the pictured iron. What say you lot? On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 3:04 AM, wrote: > Hello Michael, Jason, Mirko and List, > > Attached to my private mails you'll find a photo of > the Zacatecas 1792 iron from the Buchwald trilogy! > > Reference: > > BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Volume 2, p. 1364. > > Regards, > > Bernd > > > From icedance at swbell.net Mon May 18 07:33:53 2009 From: icedance at swbell.net (Don Edwards) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 04:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas in the Encyclopedia In-Reply-To: <93aaac890905172244y346ff3dcv6ce2e441c523573b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <902212.46661.qm@web81604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello all, The Zacatecas of mine in the Encyclopedia is an error listing - it is the 1969 rather than the 1792 form. This is due to a mis-labelling of what I bought at one time. Don Edwards From nightsky55 at gmail.com Mon May 18 08:23:27 2009 From: nightsky55 at gmail.com (Bob King) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 07:23:27 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale In-Reply-To: References: <151262.6366.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99c1e91a0905180523u65b4e4d7v7ce7b225e76514bb@mail.gmail.com> Hi Greg and Greg and all, When Adam and others put their lunars on eBay they are taking a risk. Those specimens might sell for considerably more or less than say, $1000/gram. I've seen many Mars and moon meteorites go for $200-500 a gram on eBay over the years. Those selling them probably felt some disappointment at such a low price but they continued to take the risk. I'm very grateful for people like Adam and others who work hard to acquire material, get it classified and then allow collectors a fair shake at buying it at a price we can afford. Congratulations on your lunar Greg. Your price is fair and I wish you well in your sales. Bob On 5/17/09, GREG LINDH wrote: > > Adam, > > Look, I understand that you're a big time hunter/dealer. I'm just a > relatively new collector who has had to put my collecting on hold due to the > "fantastic economy". So, I don't claim to know nearly as much as you as far > as values, etc... But, right now, you have a 362 mg Dhofar 910 lunar which > started out at $.99 and has already been bid up several times so that the > bid now stands at $152.50. The time remaining until the auction ends is 1 > day, 18hours. As far as I'm concerned, the most important fact follows. > Everyone knows that the real action as far as bidding is concerned takes > place in the last 30 seconds of the auction. Right? So, let's say that the > bidding keeps rising between now and the end of the countdown. Who knows > how high it will have gotten to by the time you have 30 seconds left. I can > only assume from past experience that it will be higher than the present > $152.50. Then, during that last 30 seconds of the auction things will > really begin to pop. In the end, your "Very Last", "Rare" meteorite will > have sold for what? I think a whole bunch more than $.99. Right? So, just > saying that you put up lunar meteorites for $.99 is really meaningless. You > know that the bidding will drive the price up into the stratosphere. > The same thing can be said for your NWA 5000 (a spectacular meteorite, by > the way). It started at $.99, but its already up to $331.00. The time > remaining until the end of that auction is 1 day, 17 hours. Again, my guess > is that it will continue to rise in price over the next day or so, reach the > 30 second mark and then once again, its price will explode. So, once again, > the $.99 beginning price is meaningless. > As I said earlier, I'm just a small time collector. Once, I discussed the > way the bidding process works here on the List about 2 years ago, and I had > a dealer at that time write to me and give me a rather uncharitable lecture. > In his emails to me, he didn't address me as "Greg". No, no, he addressed > me as "Mr. Tight Ass". He said that I should be happy to bid multiple times > and very high so that he and other dealers would be able to stay in > business. Personally, I found his "reasoning" to be a bit disingenuous. > When he goes into to buy a car, and the dealer says, this car cost $30,000, > I wonder if he would say to the dealer, "No, no, here let me help you out. > I wouldn't want you to go out of business, so I'm going to give you $80,000 > for the car." Yeah, right! > I've observed a few things in my time perusing this List over the past > couple of years. One of the more important things is that there are some > dealers who seem to give a more fair deal than others. > I'm not going to put you into a category, one way or the other. I'll just > say that I have found some dealers who have treated me with respect (a rare > treat, indeed), and have also priced their goods in such a way that I was > able to buy a few nice pieces. > For what it's worth, that's the way I see things here. > > Regards, > Greg Lindh > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adam Hupe" > To: "Adam" > Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:55 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale > > > > How is this gouging people, over a $1,000.00 worth of lunar material started > at just 99 cents? This material has been running long before this > conversation started. > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140320408963 > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200341681245 > > > I have several auctions running, all started at just 99 cents. Let the buyer > decide who is or is not gouging as this is a ridiculous statement when it > comes to me and has no merit whatsoever. > > Best Regards, > > Adam > > > > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, GREG LINDH wrote: > > > From: GREG LINDH > > Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale > > To: raremeteorites at yahoo.com > > Cc: "meteorite-list" > > Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:25 PM > > > > > > Adam, > > > > > > Actually, it has *everything* to do with > > competition. There are those on this List, though they > > be few in number, who don't gouge their customers when they > > sell a meteorite. Too many dealers charge outrageous > > prices for similar products. Inevitably, I read posts > > from the high priced dealers putting down those dealers who > > give a better bargain. > > I'll say it again, it has everything to do > > with competion. As one who has limited financial > > resources, I have always appreciated those dealers who give > > a good product, while charging a *fair* price. > > Sometimes I have to laugh and just shake my head when I see > > some of the "deals" being offered by the more unreasonable, > > high charging dealers. > > > > Greg Lindh > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 09:27:25 -0700 > > > From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com > > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for > > sale > > > > > > > > > This has nothing to do with competition. It has > > everything to do with proper chain of custody, legitimate > > nomenclature assignment, TKW figures, science and collector > > confidence. Just because a Moroccan dealer says something is > > a lunar meteorite does not make it so. Just ask the buyers > > who got ripped off in Tucson this year and the year before. > > There have been some very convincing lunar-looking Eucrites > > that have fooled some of the best. There was an embarrassing > > incident where a scientist claimed something was lunar > > before running all of the tests and it turned out to be a > > Eucrite. Many dealers had to recall the material after being > > in a hurry to put it on the market. > > > > > > To put things in perspective, Luniates are considered > > the top of the meteorite collectibles chain every since the > > article, "Mining for Meteorites" in the Smithsonian magazine > > stated so. Only advanced mineral collections incorporate > > Meteorite specimens. A mineral specimen is worth a fraction > > of its cost if the find location and history are not known. > > > > > > Advanced mineral collectors would be appalled by what > > has happened with Martian meteorites and self-pairings. One > > well-known dealer purchased material from a Moroccan who > > stated it was paired to one of our stones. We publicly > > objected to this dealer using nomenclature assigned to our > > stones so he sent a piece in for study. It turned out to be > > a completely new Martian meteorite that was almost lost to > > science. > > > > > > I would dislike seeing Lunar meteorites being treated > > the same as some Martian meteorites. Total known weights > > have been carefully recorded to this point and it would be a > > shame to lose control. > > > > > > I congratulate anybody who is able to acquire lunar > > material, have it Laboratory confirmed and pass the > > Meteoritical Society Nomenclature Committee for name > > assignment. It would demonstrate proper respect for some of > > the world's rarest material. Anything less is a disservice. > > Dealers are not allowed to rate their own diamonds or coins > > so why should meteorites that are much more rare be any > > different? > > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/17/09, Galactic Stone & > > Ironworks wrote: > > > > > >> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks > > >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available > > for sale > > >> To: "Greg Catterton" > > >> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > >> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 8:32 AM > > >> Be careful Greg, now that you are > > >> offering planetaries at reasonable > > >> prices, you are going to be viewed as competition > > by the > > >> big guys - > > >> then they will start stabbing you in the > > back. Those > > >> who are driven > > >> by money are threatened by those like us who don't > > give a > > >> crap about > > >> profits. ;) > > >> > > >> Nice lunar. If I wasn't already sitting on > > my fair > > >> share of lunars, > > >> I'd buy a piece. > > >> > > >> Good luck. > > >> > > >> Best regards > > >> > > >> MikeG > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On 5/17/09, Greg Catterton > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Not once did I ever say to anyone it came from > > you. > > >> Anyone who claims I did, > > >>> I invite them post the email where I made > > that > > >> claim... > > >>> > > >>> I am sending a sample off to be tested Monday > > to Tony > > >> Irving and the test > > >>> results will speak for themselves as to what > > this is - > > >> however Im sure > > >>> anyone can see the picture of what I have: > > >>> http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF1732.jpg > > >>> and compare it with this: > > >>> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/NWA4734-596A.jpg > > >>> > > >>> I want to state for the record, I am selling > > this for > > >> less becouse I dont > > >>> need to get rich off selling it. I dont sell > > >> meteorites to make a living, > > >>> pay for cars or houses... I sell them to help > > increase > > >> my personal > > >>> collection. > > >>> I know what I paid for this and if the others > > who have > > >> this paid anywhere > > >>> close to what I did, they could sell it for > > half what > > >> they do and still > > >>> triple the money they put into it - even with > > cutting > > >> loss. > > >>> > > >>> I know who I got it from is honest and > > reliable as for > > >> the authenticity. > > >>> > > >>> That said, I wont sell anymore until testing > > is done, > > >> but when it is, I will > > >>> sell it for well under $1,200 per gram... > > >>> > > >>> Greg C. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> --- On Sun, 5/17/09, habibi abdelaziz > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> From: habibi abdelaziz > > >>>> Subject: AD - Lunar available for sale > > >>>> To: "meteorite list" > > >>>> Cc: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com > > >>>> Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:32 AM > > >>>> > > >>>> hi greg > > >>>> this material is not from me , > > however > > >> it looks like > > >>>> the monzoggabro, > > >>>> but i m not sur is it isone from photo > > >>>> > > >>>> aziz > > >>>> habibi aziz > > >>>> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > > >>>> phone. 21235576145 > > >>>> fax.21235576170 > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > ______________________________________________ > > >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > >>> Meteorite-list mailing list > > >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > ......................................................... > > >> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > > >> Member of the Meteoritical Society. > > >> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > > >> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and > > >> http://www.glassthrower.com > > >> > > .......................................................... > > >> ______________________________________________ > > >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > >> > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon May 18 10:59:54 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 07:59:54 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? Message-ID: <4A1177EA.6080203@meteoritesusa.com> Anyone know what this is and when this video was taken and where the location is? http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/23749/fireball_asteroid_meteorite_ufo_crashes_into_earth/ -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Mon May 18 11:18:02 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 09:18:02 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? References: <4A1177EA.6080203@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <5130F3363B564DAE9F704B53B4096677@bellatrix> It appears to be lit by the setting Sun. It could be an odd contrail- certainly the speed and motion are about right. But it's got an unusual head for a contrail. Maybe an aircraft or balloon that is venting something, perhaps for some kind of experiment? Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" To: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:59 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? > Anyone know what this is and when this video was taken and where the > location is? > > http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/23749/fireball_asteroid_meteorite_ufo_crashes_into_earth/ > > -- > Regards, > Eric Wichman From midwest at meteorman.org Mon May 18 11:23:06 2009 From: midwest at meteorman.org (Timothy Heitz) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 10:23:06 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1969) iron References: <834471.33530.qm@web26303.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9FBC56079CAB4A8A9BF5C008AF07367F@hal> Hello Mike and Jason, I have a close-up picture of the recrystallized Zacatecas 1969 iron here. http://www.meteorman.org/Zacatecas.htm Tim Heitz Midwest Meteorites - http://www.meteorman.org/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mirko Graul" To: "Michael Fowler" Cc: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 2:03 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay .......oh,a discussion about my iron at ebay. Hi Mike and Jason, Zacatecas (1792) is not the same as Zacatecas (1969). All the photos were shown is Zacatecas (1969). That is a strong recrystallized iron and easy to recognize. I think(and not only think) i am sure,that the photo in encyclopedia of meteorites is a mistake. Don, what do you think? My Zacatecas 1792 is real. I have it from a German dealer. And this dealer is certainly the same source, where her other collectors piece for the collection have received. Perhaps even someone a picture for all present here for comparison. Many greetings Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de Member of The Meteoritical Society (International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) --- Michael Fowler schrieb am Mo, 18.5.2009: > Von: Michael Fowler > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > CC: "Michael Fowler" > Datum: Montag, 18. Mai 2009, 7:36 > Thanks Jason, > > Don Edwards has a photo in the encyclopedia of meteorites, > but it is not very clear. I was trying to decide if it > was the re-crystalized 1969 Zacatecas or the 1792 one. > I'm inclinded to think it is the 1792 Zacatecas, but there > is room for confusion. > > http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/test/Zacatecas1792_don_edwards.jpg > > Mike > > > Hello Mike, > > Indeed, that's not a piece of the more common > Zacatecas (1969). > > See here; that iron is clearly recrystallized: > > > > http://www.nyrockman.com/museum/zacatecas-1462.htm > > > > While I haven't been able to find a picture of the > etch of the > > Zacatecas (1792) iron, I was able to find this picture > of the main > > mass: > > > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zacatecas_(1792)_meteorite.jpg > > > > There is more than one Zacatecas! > > Regards, > > Jason > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Michael Fowler > wrote: > > > > > I collect ungrouped irons, and am looking for a > slice of Zacatecas (1792) an > > > ungrouped iron. > > > The specimen on ebay: > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Meteorite-ZACATECAS-1792-perfect-etched-slice-12-3g_W0QQitemZ270389277772QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef474f44c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A5%7C294%3A50#ebayphotohosting > > > > > > > does not in my opinion look like the photo in > Buchwald, or match his > > > description: > > > > > > "Zacatecas is remarkable in that it belongs to > the rather few > > > polycrystalline iron meteorites. The grain > size ranges from 1 to 5 cm, a > > > variation which is partly due to the random > sectioning through many almost > > > equiaxial grains. > ....... The grain boundaries are also > conspicuous > > > because of the copious development of very > irregular 1-3 mm wide zones of > > swathing kamacite. This kamacite was nucleated > by the troilite and > > > > > schreibersite precipitates, and by the boundary > itself, and grew > > > significantly before the bulk of the grains > transformed during the primary > > > cooling period. > > > ...... > > > Zacatecas may have shown a kamacite bandwith ot > one time of .6 -1.0 mm, but > > > since all taenite eventually disappeared and > significant grain growth in the > > > kamacite took place, no well defined > Widmanstatten pattern is present now. > > > In this respect, Zacatecas resembles New > Baltimore, Santa Rosa and > > > Chihuahua City." > > > > > > So in short, no well defined Widmanstatten > pattern, unlike the photo in the > > > ebay ad. > > > > > Would anyone like to comment? > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Mike Fowler > > > > > Chicago > > > > > ebay--starsandrocks______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon May 18 11:38:53 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 08:38:53 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? In-Reply-To: <5130F3363B564DAE9F704B53B4096677@bellatrix> References: <4A1177EA.6080203@meteoritesusa.com> <5130F3363B564DAE9F704B53B4096677@bellatrix> Message-ID: <4A11810D.7020005@meteoritesusa.com> Yeah, I though it odd.... Hence the ? mark. I did notice the sun setting (or rising) and thought this could possibly explain the orange glow of the "fireball" if it is contrails reflecting the orange glow from beyond the horizon. Still though, if it were a contrail from an airplane wouldn't it persist in the air longer than it does? The "tail" of this fireball seems to stay the same length through out the video and not stretch out across all the way across the sky like a contrail would. Why is that? Don't contrails from planes tend to get larger further from the aircraft as the trail expands and dissipates in the air? This video shows a tapering of the short "contrail" seemingly getting smaller the further away from the object. What would cause that? Or is it only seeming to taper off because of the haze in the air explaining why the longer "contrail" is not visible as well? Regards, Eric Chris Peterson wrote: > It appears to be lit by the setting Sun. It could be an odd contrail- > certainly the speed and motion are about right. But it's got an > unusual head for a contrail. Maybe an aircraft or balloon that is > venting something, perhaps for some kind of experiment? > > Chris > > ***************************************** > Chris L Peterson > Cloudbait Observatory > http://www.cloudbait.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" > > To: > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:59 AM > Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? > > >> Anyone know what this is and when this video was taken and where the >> location is? >> >> http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/23749/fireball_asteroid_meteorite_ufo_crashes_into_earth/ >> >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Eric Wichman > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From GeoZay at aol.com Mon May 18 11:46:39 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 11:46:39 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? Message-ID: >>It appears to be lit by the setting Sun. It could be an odd contrail- certainly the speed and motion are about right. But it's got an unusual head for a contrail. Maybe an aircraft or balloon that is venting something, perhaps for some kind of experiment?<< I'm not able to get the video to show motion...just a single fuzzy photo. For those who can see it move, is it's apparent motion of that of an airplane or satellite or faster? Slower? If it appears quite slow...could be a balloon, but that's a dirty word for those ufo boys. :O) It does have an odd looking head. Wished I knew where it was taken...could be a military flare maybe? I know there was a series of those dropped near phoenix about 12 years ago that spooked the general public. It ended up being the Maryland national guard over a nearby gunnery range. Huh..... GeoZay **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322941x1201367178/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =Mayfooter51809NO115) From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Mon May 18 11:52:30 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 09:52:30 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? References: <4A1177EA.6080203@meteoritesusa.com> <5130F3363B564DAE9F704B53B4096677@bellatrix> <4A11810D.7020005@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: In fairly still air, contrails persist until they evaporate. How long that takes depends on the humidity and water content of the air. I use contrail patterns during the day as a tool to assess probable astronomical seeing conditions that night. I'm looking for still, dry air. I know that's what we've got when airplanes leave no contrails, or leave contrails that only persist for a very short distance behind the plane- like what the video shows. Here over the central Rockies, such short contrails are very common. Contrails normally form off the trailing surface of the wings, and spread out with distance. In still air, they may spread very little, and appear to taper away again at the far end. But what you usually see then is a small start, some broadening, and then the taper begins. This thing in the video seems too large at the start, which is why I speculated that something was being vented. That said, it's also possible the problem is optical. The camera optics don't seem very good, and the image doesn't seem well focused. So the apparent blob of material at the head might just be an optical aberration of some sort. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" To: "Chris Peterson" ; Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? > Yeah, I though it odd.... Hence the ? mark. > > I did notice the sun setting (or rising) and thought this could possibly > explain the orange glow of the "fireball" if it is contrails reflecting > the orange glow from beyond the horizon. > > Still though, if it were a contrail from an airplane wouldn't it persist > in the air longer than it does? The "tail" of this fireball seems to stay > the same length through out the video and not stretch out across all the > way across the sky like a contrail would. Why is that? > > Don't contrails from planes tend to get larger further from the aircraft > as the trail expands and dissipates in the air? This video shows a > tapering of the short "contrail" seemingly getting smaller the further > away from the object. What would cause that? > > Or is it only seeming to taper off because of the haze in the air > explaining why the longer "contrail" is not visible as well? > > Regards, > Eric From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Mon May 18 11:54:52 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 09:54:52 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? References: Message-ID: <981494EBDB254C22B7D8E854BA268A7B@bellatrix> Very slow- just like a plane. The thing takes a good 5 minutes to go from its starting point to behind a foreground hill. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? > >>>It appears to be lit by the setting Sun. It could be an odd contrail- > certainly the speed and motion are about right. But it's got an unusual > head > for a contrail. Maybe an aircraft or balloon that is venting something, > perhaps for some kind of experiment?<< > > I'm not able to get the video to show motion...just a single fuzzy photo. > For those who can see it move, is it's apparent motion of that of an > airplane or satellite or faster? Slower? If it appears quite slow...could > be a > balloon, but that's a dirty word for those ufo boys. :O) It does have an > odd > looking head. Wished I knew where it was taken...could be a military > flare > maybe? I know there was a series of those dropped near phoenix about 12 > years ago that spooked the general public. It ended up being the Maryland > national guard over a nearby gunnery range. Huh..... > GeoZay From GeoZay at aol.com Mon May 18 11:57:48 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 11:57:48 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? Message-ID: < Hi Bernd and Jason, many thanks Bernd for your photo. I think that looks absolutly same. Jason,i think the black inclusions on the slice are also schreibersite!! The etching quality are only strong different! Thats all. Many greetings Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de Member of The Meteoritical Society (International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) --- Jason Utas schrieb am Mo, 18.5.2009: > Von: Jason Utas > Betreff: Re: Zacatecas 1792 > An: BVPauli at t-online.de, "Mirko Graul" , "Michael Fowler" , "Meteorite-list" > Datum: Montag, 18. Mai 2009, 12:28 > Well that looks practically nothing > like the piece on ebay, even given > the fact that the scale is clearly far larger in that > image.? The > brain-like schreibersite in the ebay auction is a fairly > uncommon > occurrence in irons, and I see no similar inclusions in > that large > section.? Also, the pattern in the ebay piece seems > much more regular > and is better defined.? While the ebay specimen > certainly doesn't > resemble any common irons on the market (Gibeon, CD, Campo, > Tres > Castillos, etc.), it does not appear to be a piece of the > pictured > iron. > What say you lot? > > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 3:04 AM,? > wrote: > > Hello Michael, Jason, Mirko and List, > > > > Attached to my private mails you'll find a photo of > > the Zacatecas 1792 iron from the Buchwald trilogy! > > > > Reference: > > > > BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, > Volume 2, p. 1364. > > > > Regards, > > > > Bernd > > > > > > > From GeoZay at aol.com Mon May 18 12:03:42 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 12:03:42 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? Message-ID: >>This thing in the video seems too large at the start, which is why I speculated that something was being vented.<< Another thing to consider is that if the object is appearing slightly askew and going away from the observer, details at the beginning can blur in with details further on back so you aren't able to focus on anything in particular, but rather a sum of what's happening. Let's say the blob formed a hundred or two feet back, maybe an expanding contrail will blot out the thinner part at the head? geozay **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322941x1201367178/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =Mayfooter51809NO115) From m_graul at yahoo.de Mon May 18 12:05:49 2009 From: m_graul at yahoo.de (Mirko Graul) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 16:05:49 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas in the Encyclopedia Message-ID: <879315.37244.qm@web26307.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Dear Don, many thanks for this information. Many greetings Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_graul at yahoo.de WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de Member of The Meteoritical Society (International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) --- Don Edwards schrieb am Mo, 18.5.2009: > Von: Don Edwards > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas in the Encyclopedia > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Datum: Montag, 18. Mai 2009, 13:33 > > > Hello all, > > The Zacatecas of mine in the Encyclopedia is an error > listing - it is the 1969 rather than the 1792 form. This is > due to a mis-labelling of what I bought at one time. > > Don Edwards > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From eric at meteoritesusa.com Mon May 18 12:05:58 2009 From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 09:05:58 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? In-Reply-To: References: <4A1177EA.6080203@meteoritesusa.com> <5130F3363B564DAE9F704B53B4096677@bellatrix> <4A11810D.7020005@meteoritesusa.com> Message-ID: <4A118766.705@meteoritesusa.com> That makes sense... I didn't realize that contrails dissipated so quickly in dryer air. But it makes sense if the air is more humid that the contrail would persist longer. The optical aberration seems logical enough too and could explain the seemingly larger leading edge. Combination of bad optics, dry air, hazy day, and setting sun equals fireballs that last more than 4 minutes.... No wonder it looks like a fireball. Regards, Eric Chris Peterson wrote: > In fairly still air, contrails persist until they evaporate. How long > that takes depends on the humidity and water content of the air. I use > contrail patterns during the day as a tool to assess probable > astronomical seeing conditions that night. I'm looking for still, dry > air. I know that's what we've got when airplanes leave no contrails, > or leave contrails that only persist for a very short distance behind > the plane- like what the video shows. Here over the central Rockies, > such short contrails are very common. > > Contrails normally form off the trailing surface of the wings, and > spread out with distance. In still air, they may spread very little, > and appear to taper away again at the far end. But what you usually > see then is a small start, some broadening, and then the taper begins. > This thing in the video seems too large at the start, which is why I > speculated that something was being vented. > > That said, it's also possible the problem is optical. The camera > optics don't seem very good, and the image doesn't seem well focused. > So the apparent blob of material at the head might just be an optical > aberration of some sort. > > Chris > > ***************************************** > Chris L Peterson > Cloudbait Observatory > http://www.cloudbait.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meteorites USA" > > To: "Chris Peterson" ; > > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:38 AM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? > > >> Yeah, I though it odd.... Hence the ? mark. >> >> I did notice the sun setting (or rising) and thought this could >> possibly explain the orange glow of the "fireball" if it is contrails >> reflecting the orange glow from beyond the horizon. >> >> Still though, if it were a contrail from an airplane wouldn't it >> persist in the air longer than it does? The "tail" of this fireball >> seems to stay the same length through out the video and not stretch >> out across all the way across the sky like a contrail would. Why is >> that? >> >> Don't contrails from planes tend to get larger further from the >> aircraft as the trail expands and dissipates in the air? This video >> shows a tapering of the short "contrail" seemingly getting smaller >> the further away from the object. What would cause that? >> >> Or is it only seeming to taper off because of the haze in the air >> explaining why the longer "contrail" is not visible as well? >> >> Regards, >> Eric > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 From GeoZay at aol.com Mon May 18 12:06:24 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 12:06:24 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? Message-ID: >>Very slow- just like a plane. The thing takes a good 5 minutes to go from its starting point to behind a foreground hill. Chris<< Oh thanks...that helps a lot. I'm now convinced, despite what it looks like, we are looking at the contrails of a distant jet liner traveling away from the observer. Pretty much like what I described earlier when I took out my binoculars for a better looksy. GeoZay **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322941x1201367178/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =Mayfooter51809NO115) From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Mon May 18 12:10:47 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 09:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 4734 Message-ID: <221916.24422.qm@web62006.mail.re1.yahoo.com> HI ALL. ?we need a Little clarification concerning? nwa 4734 , an what greg caterton is selling, those slice from greg c, look the real McCoy, and they are from the mass original; that was a complete stone classified by albert jambon, ?in first i get 409+67 gr? and sent 20 gr to albert that he has done the classification and later? mr oumama get the rest which is the rest from a complete stone of 1372 gr that he classified the stone by amlbert too; the mass was split? by : aziz habibi = 477 gr stfean ralew =40 gr or so oumama the rest wich is 855 gr and there is nothing more as it is a complte stone so mr oumama sold his stone to sbai mohamed and associates, all is sold left in morroco , 409 gr by a, habibi and 400 gr by sbai associates, so mr greg c , get his 11 gr from? sbai associates ,as he wrote to me; congratulations on acquiring this wonderful and pristine lunar, than actually he need not to classifies the stone if he has bough it from sbai associates, but need at least to confirm it, what should be done in next situation by any dealer ,? lunar and martian are a heavy investment , and dealer from nwa or other part of the world take a big risk buying them , any one could clam that a stone is paired to this one , but there have been many stone mistaken for lunars and martians, if a stone is not checked by a scientist as lunar or martian it must not be sold as one, many dealer and collector invest a big money like 1000's of dollar in planetary meteorite and brought to the world of meteorite a pristine collection that had cost them much money to come at the end to sell slices for few dollars , they will never get back there money if there is a bad behavior and no respect of rules, a single collector could never afford to buy a planetary meteorite if there was not big dealers we come to fact that without this dealers from other part of the world that market well planetary meteorite , there will be less and less classification and than there will be a brouhaha of what is what, and collector will not buy anymore any planetary meteorite.... the work done by? Norbert classen and dr randy korotev and dr??tony Irving to make statistics of lunar and martian is a wonderfully hard job and we thank them for that, we need a fallow up system by??the nomcom for planetary statistics. Moroccans dealers usually sell planetary as unclassified which is an other matter , they send a sample to a dealer who classifies the stone and put it in public, and this is the only way that big dealer could get planetary is by buying unclassified planetary, coming to the pairing issue , i agree that even if lunar and martian are paired they must be confirmed by a scientist, to avoid confusion, thanks for reading and let's keep this market growing , the best we behave good the best we have best market and better meteorite, my 409 gr? nwa 4734 still intact it's from the untouchable and it's the main mass now,od nwa4734 as? it's the biggest one, from all what is founld 1372 gr. http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/3542986058/sizes/l/ by the way a big firebakll croosed over north erfoud yesterday nigh at 00.30 it looks big and went directly to algeria, thanks aziz habibi ?habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From GeoZay at aol.com Mon May 18 12:11:31 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 12:11:31 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? Message-ID: >>Combination of bad optics, dry air, hazy day, and setting sun equals fireballs that last more than 4 minutes.... No wonder it looks like a fireball.<< You can add on to the above that the object was traveling away from you. At night you will have folks seeing stationary lights that suddenly go out when the plane is coming towards you. I use to have my observatory in the mountains near Descanso, CA (near San Diego). The flight path from the east went right over me. Quite often you would see small and large planes turn on their landing lights momentarily just for some reassurances as to where the mountains were...then shut them off. GeoZay **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322941x1201367178/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =Mayfooter51809NO115) From mqfowler at mac.com Mon May 18 12:34:44 2009 From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 11:34:44 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas 1792 Message-ID: <78D568D0-0677-4FC7-A47C-31F37DE1C9A4@mac.com> Hi Bernd, There are only 2 people whose posts I read every time, no matter what the subject. You are one and Sterling Webb is the other. Thanks for forwarding the picture from Buchwald. Perhaps you are being diplomatic in letting us form our own opinion as to whether the sample on ebay is similar to the photo in Buchwald? However, what do you think of the written description that I excerpted in my original post? " polycrystalline..... (with) no well defined widmanstatten pattern." I've looked at a couple of photo's of Santa Rosa, to which Buchwald compares Zacatecas (1792) and there is no comparison to the slice on ebay. Perhaps we can find photos from major institutions to compare to, where there will be no doubt as to the provenance. After all if most collectors bought from the same source and that source is incorrect, then pictures in collector hands will all be similarly in error. Thanks, Mike Fowler From marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl Mon May 18 12:43:55 2009 From: marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl (Marco Langbroek) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 18:43:55 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? Message-ID: <4A11904B.9030804@wanadoo.nl> I agree with Chris: this to me is a short aircraft contrail lit by the sun. I see no reason at all to think of a meteoric fireball. It keeps surprising me that contrails, in this age of ubiquitous aircraft traffic, are still confused with "fireballs" so often. - Marco ----- Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) e-mail: dms at marcolangbroek.nl http://www.dmsweb.org http://www.marcolangbroek.nl ----- From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com Mon May 18 13:34:02 2009 From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 10:34:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans Message-ID: <13484.69927.qm@web45407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hello List, Everytime we talk about Meteorites and morocco, there's someone to tell that Moroccans are not trustworthy, can anyone tell me how? every american/european was rippied off should tell us who stole his money and every moroccan should do the same, this way we'll have a good idea about who is trustworthy and who is NOT, and it also helps to know untrustworthy people to avoid dealling with'm. A few of you knows lots of very interesting facts about Amercans and Moroccans. dealers, collectors and scientists are all in this matter. So, please, any american or european was ripped off by a moroccan, give us the names and how he stole your money, and hopefully we can hear from moroccans. Thanks Aziz From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com Mon May 18 13:34:29 2009 From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 10:34:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 4734 Message-ID: <316466.18190.qm@web46415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > so mr greg c , get his 11 gr from sbai associates ,as he > wrote to me; > congratulations on acquiring this wonderful and pristine > lunar Thanks for the confirmation for everyone that what I have the the real thing. I understand the need for caution when buying Lunar and Martian meteorites, but I also did not like the fact that people felt the need to question my credibility. I have never given anyone any reason the question me or anything I sell. That said, who wants some of this awesome Lunar? Greg C. --- On Mon, 5/18/09, habibi abdelaziz wrote: > From: habibi abdelaziz > Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 4734 > To: "meteorite list" > Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 12:10 PM > > HI ALL. > ?we need a Little clarification concerning? nwa 4734 , an > what greg caterton is selling, > > those slice from greg c, look the real McCoy, and they are > from the mass original; that was a complete stone classified > by albert jambon, > ?in first i get 409+67 gr? and sent 20 gr to albert that > he has done the classification and later? mr oumama get the > rest which is the rest from a complete stone of 1372 gr that > he classified the stone by amlbert too; > the mass was split? by : > aziz habibi = 477 gr > stfean ralew =40 gr or so > oumama the rest wich is 855 gr > and there is nothing more as it is a complte stone > > so mr oumama sold his stone to sbai mohamed and associates, > > > all is sold left in morroco , 409 gr by a, habibi and 400 > gr by sbai associates, > > so mr greg c , get his 11 gr from? sbai associates ,as he > wrote to me; > congratulations on acquiring this wonderful and pristine > lunar, > > than actually he need not to classifies the stone if he has > bough it from sbai associates, but need at least to confirm > it, > > what should be done in next situation by any dealer ,? > lunar and martian are a heavy investment , > and dealer from nwa or other part of the world take a big > risk buying them , any one could clam that a stone is paired > to this one , > but there have been many stone mistaken for lunars and > martians, > if a stone is not checked by a scientist as lunar or > martian it must not be sold as one, > > many dealer and collector invest a big money like 1000's of > dollar in planetary meteorite and brought to the world of > meteorite a pristine collection that had cost them much > money to come at the end to sell slices for few dollars , > they will never get back there money if there is a bad > behavior and no respect of rules, a single collector could > never afford to buy a planetary meteorite if there was not > big dealers > we come to fact that without this dealers from other part > of the world that market well planetary meteorite , there > will be less and less classification and than there will be > a brouhaha of what is what, and collector will not buy > anymore any planetary meteorite.... > the work done by? Norbert classen and dr randy korotev and > dr??tony Irving to make statistics of lunar and martian is > a wonderfully hard job and we thank them for that, > we need a fallow up system by??the nomcom for planetary > statistics. > > Moroccans dealers usually sell planetary as unclassified > which is an other matter , they send a sample to a dealer > who classifies the stone and put it in public, and this is > the only way that big dealer could get planetary is by > buying unclassified planetary, > > coming to the pairing issue , i agree that even if lunar > and martian are paired they must be confirmed by a > scientist, to avoid confusion, > > thanks for reading and let's keep this market growing , > the best we behave good the best we have best market and > better meteorite, > > my 409 gr? nwa 4734 still intact it's from the untouchable > and it's the main mass now,od nwa4734 as? it's the biggest > one, from all what is founld 1372 gr. > http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/3542986058/sizes/l/ > > by the way a big firebakll croosed over north erfoud > yesterday nigh at 00.30 it looks big and went directly to > algeria, > thanks > aziz habibi > > > > > > > > ?habibi aziz > box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > phone. 21235576145 > fax.21235576170 > > > ? ? ? > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From GeoZay at aol.com Mon May 18 13:40:02 2009 From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 13:40:02 EDT Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans Message-ID: >>Hello List, Everytime we talk about Meteorites and morocco, there's someone to tell that Moroccans are not trustworthy, can anyone tell me how? every american/european was rippied off should tell us who stole his money and every moroccan should do the same, this way we'll have a good idea about who is trustworthy and who is NOT, and it also helps to know untrustworthy people to avoid dealling with'm. A few of you knows lots of very interesting facts about Amercans and Moroccans. dealers, collectors and scientists are all in this matter. So, please, any american or european was ripped off by a moroccan, give us the names and how he stole your money, and hopefully we can hear from moroccans.<< Good point! geozay **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322941x1201367178/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =Mayfooter51809NO115) From fujmon at mac.com Mon May 18 13:41:28 2009 From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 07:41:28 -1000 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans In-Reply-To: <13484.69927.qm@web45407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <13484.69927.qm@web45407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57CC6C2D-E6F0-4CE6-9C10-8E985D1B5268@mac.com> Aloha Aziz and listees, Rather than bring up the negative, I would like to reinforce the positive. In past transactions, I have had good, trustworthy transactions with Aid Mohamed and Ahmad Bouregaa. gary On May 18, 2009, at 7:34 AM, Abdelaziz Alhyane wrote: > > Hello List, > Everytime we talk about Meteorites and morocco, there's someone to > tell that Moroccans are not trustworthy, can anyone tell me how? > every american/european was rippied off should tell us who stole his > money and every moroccan should do the same, this way we'll have a > good idea about who is trustworthy and who is NOT, and it also helps > to know untrustworthy people to avoid dealling with'm. > A few of you knows lots of very interesting facts about Amercans and > Moroccans. dealers, collectors and scientists are all in this matter. > So, please, any american or european was ripped off by a moroccan, > give us the names and how he stole your money, and hopefully we can > hear from moroccans. > > Thanks > Aziz > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com http://astroday.net From clp at alumni.caltech.edu Mon May 18 13:50:08 2009 From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 11:50:08 -0600 Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? References: <4A11904B.9030804@wanadoo.nl> Message-ID: <009C350712194A9E878EFB5F25A0EC56@bellatrix> > It keeps surprising me that contrails, in this age of ubiquitous aircraft > traffic, are still confused with "fireballs" so often. Most people never look up. An appalling percentage of adults are unaware, for instance, that the Moon can be seen during the day (something like half of adults in the U.S.) Now you put a jet near the horizon at sunset, so you get something too bright to miss, and of course too far away to make any sound, and I guess it's not surprising you get some people who believe they are seeing something extraordinary. Chris ***************************************** Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marco Langbroek" To: "Meteorite List" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? >I agree with Chris: this to me is a short aircraft contrail lit by the sun. >I see no reason at all to think of a meteoric fireball. > > It keeps surprising me that contrails, in this age of ubiquitous aircraft > traffic, are still confused with "fireballs" so often. > > - Marco From azizhabibi at yahoo.com Mon May 18 14:43:35 2009 From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 11:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans Message-ID: <14031.81324.qm@web62007.mail.re1.yahoo.com> hi all this what? the?IMCA? is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation,? than the imca make a black list of the no honnest?dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of? IMCA... i also ask morrocan dealer to be members from the imca and to fallow the rules , this will give good notorite to morrocans delears and also will protect them to be ripped off by anyone else, and give agood image of the morrocans delears. meantime i ask the imca to make it easy for the morrocans to be members, and later ask them to fallow the rules, thanks ?habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170 From meteoritemike at gmail.com Mon May 18 14:57:34 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 14:57:34 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans In-Reply-To: <14031.81324.qm@web62007.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <14031.81324.qm@web62007.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA..." ROTFLMAO! That's rich. Thanks for the smile today. ;) On 5/18/09, habibi abdelaziz wrote: > > hi all > this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being > members, > > if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a > reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, > > so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... > > i also ask morrocan dealer to be members from the imca and to fallow the > rules , this will give good notorite to morrocans delears and also will > protect them to be ripped off by anyone else, and give agood image of the > morrocans delears. > meantime i ask the imca to make it easy for the morrocans to be members, and > later ask them to fallow the rules, > > thanks > > > habibi aziz > box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > phone. 21235576145 > fax.21235576170 > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From cdtucson at cox.net Mon May 18 15:28:33 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 12:28:33 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090518152833.3166C.278975.imail@fed1rmwml40> ROTFLMAO Ditto. Translation; Roliing of the floor laughing my @ss off. ---- Galactic Stone & Ironworks wrote: > "hi all > this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by > being members, > > if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a > reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest > dealers, > > so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA..." > > ROTFLMAO! > > That's rich. Thanks for the smile today. ;) > > > > On 5/18/09, habibi abdelaziz wrote: > > > > hi all > > this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being > > members, > > > > if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a > > reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, > > > > so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... > > > > i also ask morrocan dealer to be members from the imca and to fallow the > > rules , this will give good notorite to morrocans delears and also will > > protect them to be ripped off by anyone else, and give agood image of the > > morrocans delears. > > meantime i ask the imca to make it easy for the morrocans to be members, and > > later ask them to fallow the rules, > > > > thanks > > > > > > habibi aziz > > box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > > phone. 21235576145 > > fax.21235576170 > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon May 18 16:48:45 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 22:48:45 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans In-Reply-To: References: <14031.81324.qm@web62007.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <013401c9d7fa$0ad532f0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Mike, please... I just opened the ebay-site, searched for "meteori*", got 1681 results. Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non authentic and doubtful material is offered. IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. I guess, if you'll search for "Sideroli" and "nandan", "meteori* +sphere" and "tibet +meteori*" ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, ..to make it a little bit easier. Hmm those meteoritic "carbonados" currently en vogue, I just can found only 2 offered. Together 50 k$..... a nice sum to go shopping for real meteorites. To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have originated from the Moon... That's what IMCA mainly is about. And I'm so ooooold, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the IMCA-labels. (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as meteorites, than the years before). I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long as the wrongdoing party is a member. Do you know any similar service in the meteoritic field? Hmm perhaps another, more empiric thought: Why do so many dealers, collector-dealers, collectors and those, who frequently or sporadically trade, sell, swap meteorites join IMCA, if that club is only a joke? Nobody urges them to do that, it's there free will and it even costs them 20 bucks and makes their transactions more difficult, if they obey the code of ethics. So why? If we let aside all that pathetic stuff about enthusiasm, education, safety for the consumer (shhht no outcry now please, I know that many of you joined also because of these intentions, but I try to explain something) and reduce that affair to the most disdainful or trivial reason: the commercial thing, the money, which I almost fear, at least if I read the recent postings of some of the list, seems to be the most understandable and maybe important factor in their collectors life..... Why the heck then most are eager to join IMCA, if they don't see any advantage for them in it? Obviously something with that IMCA and the labels seems to work. And that can't be directly influenced by the IMCA-members and directors (else than their sedulous conduct and work) cause their must have happened something with the ominous "consumer" - ugly word, that it turned out to be an advantage for most offerers (or at least in their opininion) to use the IMCA-label. If it would be meaningless, why would the offerers use it then? Of course there are very honourable offerers and dealers too, who do without - not so seldom their reputation and integrity seems to be work alone as well. (Have to say that, only to avoid the always identic discussions). But if one counts, I guess, meanwhile the majority of meteorite offerers ate members of IMCA. It is easy to scoff about something, harder it is to improve a grievance. IMCA was born by the idea of few, who were very discontented about the situation regarding the safety on the meteorite market (especially with the still quite new ebay then) - maybe so discontent like you and others are about IMCA - and felt, that something had to be done. They had the ideas and realized them with their own efforts and if I see the results after those few years only - and I wasn't a member from beginning on - then I have to pay my highest deference to the founders. An opinion only, my opinion Martin -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Galactic Stone & Ironworks Gesendet: Montag, 18. Mai 2009 20:58 An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans "hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA..." ROTFLMAO! That's rich. Thanks for the smile today. ;) On 5/18/09, habibi abdelaziz wrote: > > hi all > this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being > members, > > if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a > reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, > > so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... > > i also ask morrocan dealer to be members from the imca and to fallow the > rules , this will give good notorite to morrocans delears and also will > protect them to be ripped off by anyone else, and give agood image of the > morrocans delears. > meantime i ask the imca to make it easy for the morrocans to be members, and > later ask them to fallow the rules, > > thanks > > > habibi aziz > box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > phone. 21235576145 > fax.21235576170 > > > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From cdtucson at cox.net Mon May 18 17:22:40 2009 From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:22:40 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans In-Reply-To: <013401c9d7fa$0ad532f0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: <20090518172240.L7UX8.360720.imail@fed1rmwml34> Martin As usual, I agree with everything you said. What I saw here in this thread if you read between the lines are pricing issues and for that IMCA has no control. Adam is complaining once again about somebody else selling paired material and somehow price became an issue. That's all I was referring to. If Greg wants to sell Lunar for less than Adam, what has IMCA to do with this? Carl IMCA 5829 ---- Martin Altmann wrote: > Mike, please... > > I just opened the ebay-site, searched for "meteori*", > got 1681 results. > > Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic > or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. > > And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non > authentic and doubtful material is offered. > > IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. > The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, > that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. > > I guess, if you'll search for "Sideroli" and "nandan", "meteori* +sphere" > and "tibet +meteori*" ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, > ..to make it a little bit easier. > > Hmm those meteoritic "carbonados" currently en vogue, I just can found only > 2 offered. Together 50 k$..... a nice sum to go shopping for real > meteorites. > > To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check > how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have > originated from the Moon... > > That's what IMCA mainly is about. > > And I'm so ooooold, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation > was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, > with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to > know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. > Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the > IMCA-labels. > > (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as > meteorites, than the years before). > > I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or > fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. > Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. > And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. > Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long > as the wrongdoing party is a member. > Do you know any similar service in the meteoritic field? > > Hmm perhaps another, more empiric thought: > Why do so many dealers, collector-dealers, collectors and those, who > frequently or sporadically trade, sell, swap meteorites join IMCA, > if that club is only a joke? > Nobody urges them to do that, it's there free will and it even costs them 20 > bucks and makes their transactions more difficult, if they obey the code of > ethics. > > So why? > If we let aside all that pathetic stuff about enthusiasm, education, safety > for the consumer (shhht no outcry now please, I know that many of you joined > also because of these intentions, but I try to explain something) > and reduce that affair to the most disdainful or trivial reason: the > commercial thing, the money, which I almost fear, at least if I read the > recent postings of some of the list, seems to be the most understandable and > maybe important factor in their collectors life..... > > Why the heck then most are eager to join IMCA, if they don't see any > advantage for them in it? > > Obviously something with that IMCA and the labels seems to work. > And that can't be directly influenced by the IMCA-members and directors > (else than their sedulous conduct and work) > cause their must have happened something with the ominous "consumer" - ugly > word, > that it turned out to be an advantage for most offerers (or at least in > their opininion) to use the IMCA-label. > > If it would be meaningless, why would the offerers use it then? > > Of course there are very honourable offerers and dealers too, > who do without - not so seldom their reputation and integrity seems to be > work alone as well. > (Have to say that, only to avoid the always identic discussions). > But if one counts, I guess, meanwhile the majority of meteorite offerers ate > members of IMCA. > > It is easy to scoff about something, harder it is to improve a grievance. > IMCA was born by the idea of few, who were very discontented about the > situation regarding the safety on the meteorite market (especially with the > still quite new ebay then) - maybe so discontent like you and others are > about IMCA - and felt, that something had to be done. > They had the ideas and realized them with their own efforts and if I see the > results after those few years only - and I wasn't a member from beginning on > - then I have to pay my highest deference to the founders. > > An opinion only, my opinion > Martin > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Galactic > Stone & Ironworks > Gesendet: Montag, 18. Mai 2009 20:58 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans > > "hi all > this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by > being members, > > if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a > reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest > dealers, > > so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA..." > > ROTFLMAO! > > That's rich. Thanks for the smile today. ;) > > > > On 5/18/09, habibi abdelaziz wrote: > > > > hi all > > this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being > > members, > > > > if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a > > reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, > > > > so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... > > > > i also ask morrocan dealer to be members from the imca and to fallow the > > rules , this will give good notorite to morrocans delears and also will > > protect them to be ripped off by anyone else, and give agood image of the > > morrocans delears. > > meantime i ask the imca to make it easy for the morrocans to be members, > and > > later ask them to fallow the rules, > > > > thanks > > > > > > habibi aziz > > box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > > phone. 21235576145 > > fax.21235576170 > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list From meteoritemike at gmail.com Mon May 18 17:43:09 2009 From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:43:09 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans In-Reply-To: <013401c9d7fa$0ad532f0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> References: <14031.81324.qm@web62007.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <013401c9d7fa$0ad532f0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Message-ID: Martin and List, Well, I just received a veiled death threat from an IMCA member for my last post. I can say in all honesty, that I have done hundreds (if not over a thousand) deals since joining the world of meteorites. Only once did someone attempt to scam me, and it was an IMCA member. IMCA credentials mean zero to me. Martin, you are one of the good guys and you know I respect you. But there are bad apples in the IMCA just like any other large group. Now I am debating whether I am going to contact the authorities over this death threat I just received. I guess I better shut my mouth before the IMCA sends a thug to my house. Best regards, MikeG On 5/18/09, Martin Altmann wrote: > Mike, please... > > I just opened the ebay-site, searched for "meteori*", > got 1681 results. > > Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic > or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. > > And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non > authentic and doubtful material is offered. > > IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. > The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, > that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. > > I guess, if you'll search for "Sideroli" and "nandan", "meteori* +sphere" > and "tibet +meteori*" ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, > ..to make it a little bit easier. > > Hmm those meteoritic "carbonados" currently en vogue, I just can found only > 2 offered. Together 50 k$..... a nice sum to go shopping for real > meteorites. > > To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check > how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have > originated from the Moon... > > That's what IMCA mainly is about. > > And I'm so ooooold, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation > was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, > with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to > know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. > Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the > IMCA-labels. > > (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as > meteorites, than the years before). > > I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or > fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. > Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. > And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. > Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long > as the wrongdoing party is a member. > Do you know any similar service in the meteoritic field? > > Hmm perhaps another, more empiric thought: > Why do so many dealers, collector-dealers, collectors and those, who > frequently or sporadically trade, sell, swap meteorites join IMCA, > if that club is only a joke? > Nobody urges them to do that, it's there free will and it even costs them 20 > bucks and makes their transactions more difficult, if they obey the code of > ethics. > > So why? > If we let aside all that pathetic stuff about enthusiasm, education, safety > for the consumer (shhht no outcry now please, I know that many of you joined > also because of these intentions, but I try to explain something) > and reduce that affair to the most disdainful or trivial reason: the > commercial thing, the money, which I almost fear, at least if I read the > recent postings of some of the list, seems to be the most understandable and > maybe important factor in their collectors life..... > > Why the heck then most are eager to join IMCA, if they don't see any > advantage for them in it? > > Obviously something with that IMCA and the labels seems to work. > And that can't be directly influenced by the IMCA-members and directors > (else than their sedulous conduct and work) > cause their must have happened something with the ominous "consumer" - ugly > word, > that it turned out to be an advantage for most offerers (or at least in > their opininion) to use the IMCA-label. > > If it would be meaningless, why would the offerers use it then? > > Of course there are very honourable offerers and dealers too, > who do without - not so seldom their reputation and integrity seems to be > work alone as well. > (Have to say that, only to avoid the always identic discussions). > But if one counts, I guess, meanwhile the majority of meteorite offerers ate > members of IMCA. > > It is easy to scoff about something, harder it is to improve a grievance. > IMCA was born by the idea of few, who were very discontented about the > situation regarding the safety on the meteorite market (especially with the > still quite new ebay then) - maybe so discontent like you and others are > about IMCA - and felt, that something had to be done. > They had the ideas and realized them with their own efforts and if I see the > results after those few years only - and I wasn't a member from beginning on > - then I have to pay my highest deference to the founders. > > An opinion only, my opinion > Martin > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Galactic > Stone & Ironworks > Gesendet: Montag, 18. Mai 2009 20:58 > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans > > "hi all > this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by > being members, > > if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a > reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest > dealers, > > so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA..." > > ROTFLMAO! > > That's rich. Thanks for the smile today. ;) > > > > On 5/18/09, habibi abdelaziz wrote: >> >> hi all >> this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being >> members, >> >> if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a >> reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, >> >> so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... >> >> i also ask morrocan dealer to be members from the imca and to fallow the >> rules , this will give good notorite to morrocans delears and also will >> protect them to be ripped off by anyone else, and give agood image of the >> morrocans delears. >> meantime i ask the imca to make it easy for the morrocans to be members, > and >> later ask them to fallow the rules, >> >> thanks >> >> >> habibi aziz >> box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco >> phone. 21235576145 >> fax.21235576170 >> >> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> > > > -- > ......................................................... > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > .......................................................... > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- ......................................................... Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .......................................................... From cynapse at charter.net Mon May 18 18:49:07 2009 From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:49:07 -0500 Subject: [meteorite-list] $50,787.50 In-Reply-To: <13484.69927.qm@web45407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <13484.69927.qm@web45407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What is-- the selling price of the Garza stone, Alex. http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/1578763,CST-NWS-meteorite18.article Collector pays $50,000 for a 5-pound rock PARK FOREST | Why so high? It's a meteorite that hit a house in '03 Comments May 18, 2009 BY MARY HOULIHAN mhoulihan at suntimes.com The Garza stone has a new home. The five-pound meteorite that crashed into a Park Forest home in 2003 was bought by a private collector for $50,787.50 Sunday during an auction by Dallas-based Heritage Auctions. David Herskowitz, director of natural history at Heritage, says it's the Garza's provenance that makes it exceptional. "The added value of this meteorite is that it hit a man-made object," Herskowitz said. "And that's extraordinary. They usually land in the desert, the ocean or the polar ice cap and are never found." The stone was auctioned by collector Adam Hupe of Laughlin, Nev., who bought it for an estimated $45,000 from Noe Garza, the Park Forest steelworker whose house it hit. Garza sold the stone when his insurance refused to pay (it was called an act of God) for the damage to the house. On March 26, 2003, a massive meteorite, estimated to be the size of a VW Beetle and weighing up to eight tons, exploded in a fireball over the Midwest. The fragments that fell to Earth were mostly tiny. The 4.6 billion-year-old rock that crashed through the Garza roof landed in 14-year-old Robert Garza's bedroom. It was a close encounter from outer space. "It ricocheted around the room and finally came to rest in the middle of the bedroom floor," Herskowitz said. "It got a lot of public attention, and that makes it even more popular with collectors." Also on Sunday, Heritage auctioned a very rare saber-toothed tiger skull pulled from a tar pit in Los Angeles. It went for more than $300,000. Herskowitz says wealthy collectors aren't the only ones who find meteorites, fossils and dinosaurs fascinating. "Most people find this sort of thing really cool," he said. "We can't get enough of them. That's the reason natural history museums remain so popular." From raremeteorites at yahoo.com Mon May 18 18:23:04 2009 From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 15:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans Message-ID: <175585.45735.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Carl, This has nothing to do with pricing. Carl, where do you come up with this crap? You do not know me at all otherwise you would not make such stupid comments. I did not complain once about price. I think $1,000.00/gram for a Mare is reasonable if the burden of proof has been satisfied that it is indeed a lunar. I do not own any of this material so I have no personal interest other than having the owner report weights in order to keep the lunar tally as accurate as possible. Greg is reporting the weight and submitting a sample for study so I have no complaint at all. I am pleased that these 11 grams will be incorporated into the tally. He can easily beat my price because I have none to offer. Enough from me on this conversation. Best Regards, Adam --- On Mon, 5/18/09, cdtucson at cox.net wrote: > From: cdtucson at cox.net > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Martin Altmann" > Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 2:22 PM > Martin > As usual, I agree with everything you said. What I? > saw here in this thread if you read between the lines are > pricing issues and for that IMCA has no control. Adam is > complaining once again about somebody else selling paired > material and somehow price became an issue. That's all I was > referring to. If Greg wants to sell Lunar for less than > Adam,? what has IMCA to do with this?? > Carl > IMCA 5829 > > ---- Martin Altmann > wrote: > > Mike, please... > > > > I just opened the ebay-site, searched for "meteori*", > > got 1681 results. > > > > Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where > fakes, not authentic > > or at least doubtful material (regarding the > authenticity) are offered. > > > > And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, > where fakes, non > > authentic and doubtful material is offered. > > > > IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for > all. > > The result of your comparision will be, I dare to > foresee, quite convincing, > > that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a > success. > > > > I guess, if you'll search for "Sideroli" and "nandan", > "meteori* +sphere" > > and "tibet +meteori*" ect. you will directly obtain > your first 20-50 fakes, > > ..to make it a little bit easier. > > > > Hmm those meteoritic "carbonados" currently en vogue, > I just can found only > > 2 offered. Together 50 k$..... a nice sum to go > shopping for real > > meteorites. > > > > To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer > since weeks?) to check > > how many tektites currently are offered there to the > layman to have > > originated from the Moon... > > > > That's what IMCA mainly is about. > > > > And I'm so ooooold, that I know the times before IMCA > and how the situation > > was there, where everyone could sell any stone from > his garden as meteorite, > > with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced > having zero possibility to > > know something about authenticity and having zero > guidelines. > > Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, > when he looks for the > > IMCA-labels. > > > > (And I have by far less people to console in my > practise, who bought crap as > > meteorites, than the years before). > > > > I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about > alleged misdemeanour or > > fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. > > Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and > every case reported. > > And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the > case. > > Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for > non-members too, as long > > as the wrongdoing party is a member. > > Do you know any similar service in the meteoritic > field? > > > > Hmm perhaps another, more empiric thought: > > Why do so many dealers, collector-dealers, collectors > and those, who > > frequently or sporadically trade, sell, swap > meteorites join IMCA, > > if that club is only a joke? > > Nobody urges them to do that, it's there free will and > it even costs them 20 > > bucks and makes their transactions more difficult, if > they obey the code of > > ethics. > > > > So why? > > If we let aside all that pathetic stuff about > enthusiasm, education, safety > > for the consumer (shhht no outcry now please, I know > that many of you joined > > also because of these intentions, but I try to explain > something) > > and reduce that affair to the most disdainful or > trivial reason: the > > commercial thing, the money, which I almost fear, at > least if I read the > > recent postings of some of the list, seems to be the > most understandable and > > maybe important factor in their collectors life..... > > > > Why the heck then most are eager to join IMCA, if they > don't see any > > advantage for them in it? > > > > Obviously something with that IMCA and the labels > seems to work. > > And that can't be directly influenced by the > IMCA-members and directors > > (else than their sedulous conduct and work) > > cause their must have happened something with the > ominous "consumer" - ugly > > word, > > that it turned out to be an advantage for most > offerers (or at least in > > their opininion) to use the IMCA-label. > > > > If it would be meaningless, why would the offerers use > it then? > > > > Of course there are very honourable offerers and > dealers too, > > who do without - not so seldom their reputation and > integrity seems to be > > work alone as well. > > (Have to say that, only to avoid the always identic > discussions). > > But if one counts, I guess, meanwhile the majority of > meteorite offerers ate > > members of IMCA. > > > > It is easy to scoff about something, harder it is to > improve a grievance. > > IMCA was born by the idea of few, who were very > discontented about the > > situation regarding the safety on the meteorite market > (especially with the > > still quite new ebay then) - maybe so discontent like > you and others are > > about IMCA - and felt, that something had to be done. > > They had the ideas and realized them with their own > efforts and if I see the > > results after those few years only - and I wasn't a > member from beginning on > > - then I have to pay my highest deference to the > founders. > > > > An opinion only, my opinion > > Martin > >? > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > > Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com > > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] > Im Auftrag von Galactic > > Stone & Ironworks > > Gesendet: Montag, 18. Mai 2009 20:58 > > An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and > Moroccans > > > > "hi all > > this what? the IMCA? is for , the imca > members protect themselves by > > being members, > > > > if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. > and he put a > > reclamation,? than the imca make a black list of > the no honnest > > dealers, > > > > so i encourage everybody to be member of? > IMCA..." > > > > ROTFLMAO! > > > > That's rich.? Thanks for the smile today. ;) > > > > > > > > On 5/18/09, habibi abdelaziz > wrote: > > > > > > hi all > > > this what? the IMCA? is for , the imca > members protect themselves by being > > > members, > > > > > > if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to > i.m.c.a. and he put a > > > reclamation,? than the imca make a black > list of the no honnest dealers, > > > > > > so i encourage everybody to be member of? > IMCA... > > > > > > i also ask morrocan dealer to be members from the > imca and to fallow the > > > rules , this will give good notorite to morrocans > delears and also will > > > protect them to be ripped off by anyone else, and > give agood image of the > > > morrocans delears. > > > meantime i ask the imca to make it easy for the > morrocans to be members, > > and > > > later ask them to fallow the rules, > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > >? habibi aziz > > > box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco > > > phone. 21235576145 > > > fax.21235576170 > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ......................................................... > > Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) > > Member of the Meteoritical Society. > > Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. > > Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com > > > .......................................................... > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > ______________________________________________ > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > ______________________________________________ > http://www.meteoritecentral.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > From altmann at meteorite-martin.de Mon May 18 18:45:48 2009 From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de (Martin Altmann) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 00:45:48 +0200 Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans In-Reply-To: <20090518172240.L7UX8.360720.imail@fed1rmwml34> References: <013401c9d7fa$0ad532f0$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> <20090518172240.L7UX8.360720.imail@fed1rmwml34> Message-ID: <014901c9d80a$642d9030$177f2a59@name86d88d87e2> Hi Carl, IMCA has indeed no influence on pricing. And I think, that wouldn't be desirable at all, would it? As most adhere to the ideal of the interplay of forces, while monopolism rarely has advantages for its victims... Hmm sometimes I have the feeling, that a few (still) misunderstand the role of IMCA. IMCA isn't the Vatican of meteoritics, which publishes a catechism and pitilessly prosecutes any breach of anyone on Earth, who is able to form the word "meteorite" with his lips, Neither to stay at religious metaphors is it the Guardian Council nor invented IMCA a meteoritic sharia. It is certainly somewhat flattering if someones think that IMCA is so mighty, but IMCA is somewhat else. An association of like-mined people, who first and foremost have a common aim: Authenticity, authenticity and authenticity. All members, who join, obligate themselves, that the stones and irons they sell, swap, trade, publish ect. are exactly that, what they claim, that they are. (....and that they adhere to a proper business conduct - which for most of them was anyway before already a matter of course.) It is not the job of the IMCA to dictate to a fancy restaurant in Oslo, that the burger there on the menu might be somewhat expensive with 20$, cause the same burger costs at a takeaway in Alabama 99 cents. Important is, that the ingredients are proper. Neither is IMCA responsible for people selling or consuming their burgers topped with strawberry jelly - as long as the beef is the beef - cause that is a question of individual taste. That is the most important objective, IMCA has imposed on itself. Hmm, I read Adam's post different. Cause Greg showed that material first, without naming it, he asked what it is and whether the provenience is alright, because that is an important issue, crucial also for the collector. Greg supplied the provenience, which was confirmed from another side. Case closed, Ted hasn't to analyze or to give a new number, as it is a part of an already known and classified stone. All dealt correct. No misinformation. (no violation of IMCA-rules. Note, that Greg hadn't made any incorrect statements, like e.g. I sell that Moon cheaper than anyone before, that one could rant, if one would be very finicky, cause that material was offered in public to the list 2 years or so ago at 500$ a gram). On price debates I won't say a word. Only that some forget, that dealers, who regularly bring out new material on a fast pace, certainly have different cost-structures and risks, than sellers, who here and there sell minor amounts of known material for fun or to refinance their collection. Professional dealers btw. are sometimes more expensive, sometimes cheaper, sometimes they ask the same... I can't follow intellectually that debate. Who would have the idea, to go to his butcher or baker to insult him, that his food is more expensive than at the big discounter? Who, who has some scissors at home, would dare to go to the barber around the corner to publically insult him? For me that is really weird. And about morality... what shall we discuss about that, with people, who pride themselves, that they bought their preferred dealer their beloved UNWAs at 25$/kg. Deduct from that sum the transportation costs from Morocco, the sales & income taxes, the running business costs the