[meteorite-list] BEATING A DEAD HORSE - The future and beyond

[Galactic Stone & Ironworks]

Howard said -

"My point is, and perhaps you can explain  why.........  Any meteorite
dealer or professional hunter should teach anybody how be a
competitor?

Do you think McDonalds would teach you how to run a restaurant?"

My condolences to any dealer of meteorites who wants to emulate the US
corporate model - the same model that has destroyed several key
sectors of our economy.   Any dealer who wants to follow the
blindly-capitalist, profit-first mindset of corporate America is going
to be left in the dust by the rest of the dealers who give a crap
about what they are doing and actually show appreciation to their
customers.   The days of the cold, stand-offish, "take it or leave it"
type of dealer are coming to an end.  You can already see them
receding into obscurity - the market is changing.  Change with it or
be left behind.

That's my 2 cents.  Actual mileage may vary, but my mileage is great. ;)


On 11/14/09, Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I would have to agree with you Dave.

>

> I also think that it shows a good deal about someone who is willing to help

> others, just as it shows a good deal about those that are not willing.

>

> Howards comments reflect a perfect example of why I have grown to have the

> impression that meteorites are dog eat dog and question motives and reasons

> for certain things.

>

> Should we really look at educating and helping newer collectors and

> tomorrows hunters/dealers as "bad" and "training the competition" or should

> we look at it as making sure those that will take the reigns of this great

> hobby have learned from those that know how to do it right?

>

> Sure to some, meteorites are simply that "gold mine" or "money falling from

> the sky" while to others, meteorites offer a chance to take part in

> something, to learn about and take part in the study of space and history.

>

> I guess it all comes down to why people are into meteorites... For money, or

> for the science of meteoritics. sure the money is good, I wont deny that,

> but is that all its really about? No.

>

> We are gifted with some wonderful things from outside this planet that we

> would never be able to touch, test, learn from or anything else many claim

> to value and want to preserve. With that in mind, should it not be in all of

> our best interests to make sure that the future generation has learned from

> those that know how to properly document, record, preserve and care for the

> collections we value so much today?

>

> Sure, some may look at it as training competition, but perhaps they should

> really look at it as passing on a gift of knowledge to those that will

> follow in the footsteps of the path they have already traveled...

>

> just my 2 pennies, hope everyone is having a good day!

>

>

> Greg C.

> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com

> IMCA 4682

>

>

> --- On Sat, 11/14/09, dave carothers <carothersdl at gmail.com> wrote:

>

>> From: dave carothers <carothersdl at gmail.com>

>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best ways to send payments - BEATING A DEAD

>> HORSEIs toMorocco

>> To: "Howard Steffic" <bencubbin at hotmail.com>,

>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

>> Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 1:20 PM

>> Howard,

>>

>> Respectfully...

>>

>> Reference your comment "I laugh at how the "newbies" expect

>> the veterans

>> with the battle scars to tell them exacty how to .... Hunt

>> Meteorites or

>> Sell on Ebay or send money overseas. Get off the couch and

>> do your own

>> legwork."

>>

>> Why should it bother YOU that someone should ask for for

>> advice or

>> assistance?  Go back through the history of this list

>> and you will see

>> literally thousands of instances where dealers and

>> professional hunters have

>> freely offered advice and assistance to

>> "newbies".   You don't think people

>> stay on this list for the ads, do you?  You don't

>> think people stay on this

>> list for the disputes, cyber fist fights, etc, do

>> you?  I personally stay on

>> this list (and I'm sure other do to) so we CAN ask for

>> advice and assistance

>> from the pros.

>>

>> I won't answer as to the motives or rationale of why

>> dealers and

>> professional hunters freely offer advice and assistance to

>> "newbies", but

>> suffice to say that I (and I know hundreds, maybe thousands

>> of others over

>> the history of this list) appreciate ALL the assistance

>> offered by ANYONE on

>> this list.

>>

>> Regards,

>>

>> Dave

>>

>>

>> ----- Original Message -----

>> From: "Howard Steffic" <bencubbin at hotmail.com>

>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>

>> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 12:35 PM

>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best ways to send payments -

>> BEATING A DEAD

>> HORSEIs toMorocco

>>

>>

>> >

>> > My point is, and perhaps you can explain

>> why.........  Any meteorite

>> > dealer or professional hunter should teach anybody how

>> be a competitor?

>> >

>> > Do you think McDonalds would teach you how to run a

>> restaurant?

>> >

>> > The logic that is used by some of these newbies is

>> what is moronic.  I

>> > don't hunt or sell but if I did, I wouldn't expect

>> anyone to teach me how

>> > to be a competitor.

>> >

>> > Respectfully yours.....

>> >

>> > Howard Steffic

>> >

>> >

>> >> From: carothersdl at gmail.com

>> >> To: bencubbin at hotmail.com;

>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

>> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best ways to send

>> payments - BEATING A DEAD

>> >> HORSEIs toMorocco

>> >> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:42:15 -0500

>> >>

>> >> Howard,

>> >>

>> >> Your comment is moronic. This group is as much

>> about posting information

>> >> to

>> >> assist "newbies" as anything else. You should know

>> better.

>> >>

>> >> Dave

>> >>

>> >> ----- Original Message -----

>> >> From: "Howard Steffic" <bencubbin at hotmail.com>

>> >> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>

>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:17 AM

>> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best ways to send

>> payments - BEATING A DEAD

>> >> HORSEIs toMorocco

>> >>

>> >>

>> >>>

>> >>> Is anyone else getting tired of this moronic

>> discussion?

>> >>>

>> >>> I laugh at how the "newbies" expect the

>> veterans with the battle scars

>> >>> to

>> >>> tell them exacty how to .... Hunt Meteorites

>> or Sell on Ebay or send

>> >>> money overseas. Get off the couch and do your

>> own legwork.

>> >>>

>> >>> Now lets give this thread a proper burrial and

>> get back to meteorites.

>> >>> Didn't someone actually find something (like a

>> meteorite not an alien)

>> >>> that we can talk about?

>> >>>

>> >>> Howard Steffic

>> >>>

>> >>>

>> >>>> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:54:25 -0800

>> >>>> From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com

>> >>>> To: spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com;

>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com;

>> >>>> searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net

>> >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best ways to

>> send payments from Canada

>> >>>> toMorocco

>> >>>>

>> >>>> Hello Brian and all,

>> >>>> MoneyGram is available in Morocco, and

>> Abdellah is a good person five

>> >>>> stars in honesty and trust.

>> >>>> My best

>> >>>> Aziz

>> >>>>

>> >>>> --- On Fri, 11/13/09, Brian Cox <searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net>

>> wrote:

>> >>>>

>> >>>>> From: Brian Cox <searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net>

>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best

>> ways to send payments from Canada

>> >>>>> toMorocco

>> >>>>> To: "Melanie Matthews" <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com>,

>> >>>>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

>> >>>>> Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 2:39

>> PM

>> >>>>> Hi Melanie,

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>> I'm glad you are on top of this and

>> that you are keeping in

>> >>>>> touch with the seller. I'm glad he's

>> mailing back your

>> >>>>> postal money order. Hopefully the

>> Moneyram will work out and

>> >>>>> he'll accept it as he said and you'll

>> get your new

>> >>>>> meteorites.

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>> I wish you all the best and hope that

>> you receive some

>> >>>>> really great and rare meteorites in

>> the group.

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>> Have a great day!

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>> Brian

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From:

>> "Melanie Matthews"

>> >>>>> <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com>

>> >>>>> To: "Brian Cox" <searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net>;

>> >>>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>

>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 1:15

>> AM

>> >>>>> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Best

>> ways to send payments

>> >>>>> from Canada toMorocco

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>> Hi Brian, listers.

>> >>>>> Actually it was a postal money order

>> that I

>> >>>>> mailed out to him (Mr. Abdellah

>> Afiniss), and yes it

>> >>>>> included the cost

>> >>>>> of the stones plus the shipping costs.

>> I asked him to mail

>> >>>>> it back to

>> >>>>> me and he said he did.

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>> Once I get the slip back I'm going to

>> >>>>> get back the money I put onto it and

>> re-send the payment to

>> >>>>> him -

>> >>>>> probably via Moneygram (which he told

>> me he accepts).

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>> At first offered me a lot total of 8.5

>> kgs of chondrites

>> >>>>> (all

>> >>>>> unclassified),, knowing full well I

>> couldn't afford all

>> >>>>> that I circled

>> >>>>> some stones in Paint.net (free image

>> editing program

>> >>>>> similar to

>> >>>>> MSPaint) that I wanted in the

>> photographs, emailed back to

>> >>>>> him and

>> >>>>> kindly asked him to send me images of

>> each meteorite I

>> >>>>> picked sitting

>> >>>>> on the scale to show their weights...

>> I then worked out the

>> >>>>> prices

>> >>>>> until I made the final decition on

>> buying five rocks

>> >>>>> together weighing

>> >>>>> 837 grams..

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>> As I said he has been very

>> cooperative, and I thanks him

>> >>>>> and I thank all here on the list for

>> their

>> >>>>> input/suggestions!

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>> -----------

>> >>>>> Melanie

>> >>>>> IMCA: 2975

>> >>>>> eBay: metmel2775

>> >>>>> Known on SkyRock Cafe as

>> SpaceCollector09

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>> Unclassified meteorites are like a box

>> of chocolates... you

>> >>>>> never know what you're gonna get!

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> ----------------------------------------

>> >>>>>> From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net

>> >>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

>> >>>>>> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:56:13

>> -0600

>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best

>> ways to send

>> >>>>> payments from Canada to Morocco

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>> Hello Melanie and list,

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>> In regards to your question of

>> sending payments to

>> >>>>> Morocco, I have to ask a

>> >>>>>> couple of questions and others

>> also mentioned they

>> >>>>> weren't clear on your

>> >>>>>> question since you didn't seem to

>> be including

>> >>>>> shipping costs. I'd like to

>> >>>>>> help you out and I mean this in

>> the most thoughtful

>> >>>>> and kindest way

>> >>>>>> possible, so please don't take it

>> negatively or have

>> >>>>> any anger towards me.

>> >>>>>> Make sure you include shipping

>> costs when you were

>> >>>>> determining the total

>> >>>>>> amount of the payment you need to

>> send to the seller

>> >>>>> and then send a check

>> >>>>>> and then say you couldn't afford

>> the FedEx shipping

>> >>>>> costs if that is what

>> >>>>>> you agreed to buy from the seller?

>> You have said this

>> >>>>> in the past about not

>> >>>>>> having money to pay for something

>> or to pay for the

>> >>>>> shipping costs. It's

>> >>>>>> good to ask for help if you are

>> not experienced in

>> >>>>> sending payments outside

>> >>>>>> of Canada beyond Paypal. This

>> sounds like you decided

>> >>>>> to send a check for

>> >>>>>> the meteorites and then were going

>> to decide about a

>> >>>>> payment for the

>> >>>>>> "shipping" as a separate payment

>> or to pay for

>> >>>>> shipping later on. Is this

>> >>>>>> why you stated you couldn't afford

>> the FedEx shipping

>> >>>>> costs after you had

>> >>>>>> sent your personal Canadian paper

>> check? This doesn't

>> >>>>> sound right why you

>> >>>>>> wouldn't determine the full amount

>> due to the seller

>> >>>>> for the items with

>> >>>>>> shipping and or insurance and then

>> send one payment

>> >>>>> and later decide you

>> >>>>>> couldn't afford the shipping costs

>> they gave you.

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>> Also, you stated you sent a "Paper

>> Check" which, as I

>> >>>>> am thinking is a

>> >>>>>> "personal check" from your

>> personal Canadian bank

>> >>>>> account by what you wrote.

>> >>>>>> I'm confused to why would you

>> think that a personal

>> >>>>> check from your Canadian

>> >>>>>> bank account would be "valid" as

>> you say, to a dealer

>> >>>>> in Morocco, which I am

>> >>>>>> sure it is valid in Canada and you

>> have money in your

>> >>>>> account, but most

>> >>>>>> likely would not be accepted in

>> Morocco or any other

>> >>>>> country? You don't

>> >>>>>> often hear of dealers in Asia,

>> Africa, Europe or for

>> >>>>> the most part any

>> >>>>>> dealers in the U.S. or anywhere in

>> North or South

>> >>>>> America or Australia that

>> >>>>>> would accept a personal Paper

>> check from a bank in a

>> >>>>> different country,

>> >>>>>> although it may happen. A check

>> from a Canadian bank

>> >>>>> account or from a U.S.

>> >>>>>> bank account or any personal paper

>> check from any

>> >>>>> other country most likely

>> >>>>>> won't be accepted unless they

>> verified with their bank

>> >>>>> first that they could

>> >>>>>> accept that check. An example

>> would be if there was

>> >>>>> Citibank in Canada and

>> >>>>>> then Citibank in the U.S. would

>> accept that check or

>> >>>>> Citibank in England,

>> >>>>>> etc. .I'm sure if the check was

>> from a bank that had a

>> >>>>> branch in that

>> >>>>>> country that it would be accepted,

>> but it usually

>> >>>>> creates a hassle and is

>> >>>>>> time consuming to stand in line or

>> through an ATM. As

>> >>>>> several members

>> >>>>>> mentioned bank wire is the safest

>> and then probably

>> >>>>> FedEx payment, but

>> >>>>>> sending a paper check or money

>> order isn't a good idea

>> >>>>> as Gary mentioned.

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>> I would like to offer a friendly

>> suggestion to help

>> >>>>> you out. Please make

>> >>>>>> sure you discuss all the facts and

>> figures with any

>> >>>>> dealer/collector

>> >>>>>> anywhere in the world before

>> closing a deal. Remember

>> >>>>> you are entering a

>> >>>>>> contract with this dealer, whether

>> it is on ebay or

>> >>>>> through their website or

>> >>>>>> through correspondence with the

>> dealer. On ebay this

>> >>>>> is stated as you are

>> >>>>>> entering a contract so be mindful

>> of this. You need to

>> >>>>> finalize all costs.

>> >>>>>> You need to get the full amount

>> that you owe in

>> >>>>> writing, email, etc. for the

>> >>>>>> meteorites and any insurance and

>> shipping and then you

>> >>>>> need to first discuss

>> >>>>>> the method of payment to that

>> dealer before you send

>> >>>>> any payment. I think

>> >>>>>> your first mistake here was that

>> it sounds as if you

>> >>>>> didn't determine the

>> >>>>>> full costs of the meteorites with

>> shipping, then you

>> >>>>> didn't ask the seller

>> >>>>>> if he or she would accept a

>> "Personal Paper Check from

>> >>>>> another country. I

>> >>>>>> think you will have much better

>> luck and increase good

>> >>>>> relations with

>> >>>>>> dealers through online sales, ebay

>> and through the

>> >>>>> different meteorite lists

>> >>>>>> you if you slow down and get the

>> facts before making

>> >>>>> purchases and payments.

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>> As you have written on your posts

>> the equivalent of

>> >>>>> The Tom Hanks character

>> >>>>>> from the Forest Gump movie, "Life

>> is like a box of

>> >>>>> chocolates." You need

>> >>>>>> to stop and think that your eyes

>> are bigger than your

>> >>>>> stomach and stop and

>> >>>>>> think of what you are wanting to

>> bid on or buy first

>> >>>>> and how to pay for it.

>> >>>>>> There is an old saying in America

>> that you may or may

>> >>>>> not know in Canada.

>> >>>>>> "Your eyes are bigger than your

>> stomach" which roughly

>> >>>>> means you saw the

>> >>>>>> food on the menu and you ordered

>> all that looked good

>> >>>>> to eat, but your

>> >>>>>> stomach wasn't big enough to eat

>> it all and you became

>> >>>>> very full before you

>> >>>>>> could finish the meal. This is the

>> same as the child

>> >>>>> that fills their plate

>> >>>>>> up and can't eat it all at home.

>> This also goes along

>> >>>>> with shopping at the

>> >>>>>> store when you are hungry and

>> buying too much, as in

>> >>>>> buying more goodies

>> >>>>>> than you needed. In this case

>> looking at meteorites

>> >>>>> you want to buy and then

>> >>>>>> not carefully researching making a

>> payment and then

>> >>>>> feeling full of

>> >>>>>> frustration and aggravation at how

>> to make the payment

>> >>>>> or what road to go

>> >>>>>> down. I truly hope this helps in

>> the future.

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>> Have a great day!

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>> Brian

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>> Best ways to send payments from

>> Canada to Morocco

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>> Hi list,

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>> Please help - I mailed a payment

>> to a Moroccan dealer

>> >>>>> for a lot of

>> >>>>>> chondrites via a paper check, he

>> got it today, but he

>> >>>>> told me that the banks

>> >>>>>> over there don't recognize it even

>> though it is

>> >>>>> completely valid. I can't

>> >>>>>> afford the shipping costs through

>> FedEx for the lot I

>> >>>>> want - which will be

>> >>>>>> over $200 CND... so what other

>> less expensive options

>> >>>>> do you suggest?

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>> Thank you in advance

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>> -----------

>> >>>>>> Melanie

>> >>>>>> IMCA: 2975

>> >>>>>> eBay: metmel2775

>> >>>>>> Known on SkyRock Cafe as

>> SpaceCollector09

>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>>

>> ______________________________________________

>> >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com

>> >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list

>> >>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

>> >>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> _________________________________________________________________

>> >>>>> Ready. Set. Get a great deal on

>> Windows 7. See fantastic

>> >>>>> deals on Windows 7 now

>> >>>>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691818=

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>>

>> ______________________________________________

>> >>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com

>> >>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list

>> >>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

>> >>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

>> >>>>>

>> >>>>

>> >>>>

>> >>>>

>> >>>>

>> ______________________________________________

>> >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com

>> >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list

>> >>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

>> >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

>> >>>

>> _________________________________________________________________

>> >>> Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn

>> more.

>> >>> http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen:112009v2

>> >>>

>> ______________________________________________

>> >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com

>> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list

>> >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

>> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

>> >>

>> >

>> _________________________________________________________________

>> > Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in

>> one place.

>> > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1

>> > ______________________________________________

>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com

>> > Meteorite-list mailing list

>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

>>

>>

>> ______________________________________________

>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com

>> Meteorite-list mailing list

>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

>>

>

>

>

> ______________________________________________

> http://www.meteoritecentral.com

> Meteorite-list mailing list

> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

>



-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................