From leighannedelray at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 00:13:54 2009
From: leighannedelray at gmail.com (Leigh Anne DelRay)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:13:54 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Here's to making Lemonade out of lemons..
In-Reply-To: <CF9FE8F076A74170AB41E147E7683099@FOSTER>
References: <5e97e2850908302232r3a64bd15kf3d4d0453b4cb8c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<CF9FE8F076A74170AB41E147E7683099@FOSTER>
Message-ID: <5e97e2850908312113h3cde7693md9aa7cd20767714c@mail.gmail.com>

Bob,
It's weird we bought this house with a certificate of no termites, and
a warranty if they were to appear in 1 year after purchase, they would
be treated immediatly.
We of course tried to cash in on that first thing, and they said that
it was only for 'subterranean termites', and not dry wood termites,
these are two separate species apparently. And the company said that
they weren't hired to look for dry wood termites in the inspection,
b/c that type of termite is so rare here.
We were also the victims of trusting the guy that sold us the house,
who told us it was 'all good' as he put it.
go figure,
LA
p.s. The company that we had the termite warranty with gave us a
courtesy treatment, but that doesn't really help the damage, it just
killed them in the section that treated. But not even all of them,
just some of them. (I think at this point it just slows them down, as
there are millions). There is not a way to get back the integrity of
that wood ever.



On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:44 AM, Bob Holmes<bobholmes at cox.net> wrote:
> Hi Leigh Anne-
>
> Sorry you have encountered this problem with your new house.
>
> Have you explored action against the company that did your inspection?
>
> Just curious,
> Bob Holmes
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leigh Anne DelRay"
> <leighannedelray at gmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:32 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Here's to making Lemonade out of lemons..
>
>
>> Or however that saying goes...
>>
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Wood-Carving-Termites-Sculpture-FUND-RAISER-GOOD-CAUSE_W0QQitemZ260470222566QQcmdZViewItemQQptZArt_Sculpture?hash=item3ca53c2ee6&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
>>
>>
>> Just off topic, and light-heartedness.
>>
>> -Leigh Anne
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>


From leighannedelray at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 00:06:34 2009
From: leighannedelray at gmail.com (Leigh Anne DelRay)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:06:34 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Here's to making Lemonade out of lemons..
In-Reply-To: <66BF89B23E4548CD92ACE0EC2EDE2DE3@windows9bb74fe>
References: <5e97e2850908302232r3a64bd15kf3d4d0453b4cb8c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<66BF89B23E4548CD92ACE0EC2EDE2DE3@windows9bb74fe>
Message-ID: <5e97e2850908312106j7030fbffxba80acdd43de3c53@mail.gmail.com>

Rob,
no, unfortunately, this is mine, all mine. It is ridiculous...
I SOOO wish I was selling this for someone else.
I can't even believe how bad it was. We just took this all apart, and
under the paint, all the wood was the consistency of graham crackers.
It didn't even needed to be properly demolished with any tools, we
could just crumble it with our hands.
I am not even clear how our front door has not just fallen out, b/c
the frame that holds it is just sawdust.
We realized it was a bigger job than us, so we are getting quotes to
have it professionally fixed.
KRAZY YO~
Leigh Anne

On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Rob Wesel<nakhladog at comcast.net> wrote:
> Is it your house Sparky or are you selling for someone?
>
> Rob Wesel
> www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
> www.facebook.com/nakhladog
> ------------------
> We are the music makers...
> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> Willy Wonka, 1971
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leigh Anne DelRay"
> <leighannedelray at gmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:32 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Here's to making Lemonade out of lemons..
>
>
>> Or however that saying goes...
>>
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Wood-Carving-Termites-Sculpture-FUND-RAISER-GOOD-CAUSE_W0QQitemZ260470222566QQcmdZViewItemQQptZArt_Sculpture?hash=item3ca53c2ee6&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
>>
>>
>> Just off topic, and light-heartedness.
>>
>> -Leigh Anne
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>


From leighannedelray at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 00:07:03 2009
From: leighannedelray at gmail.com (Leigh Anne DelRay)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:07:03 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Here's to making Lemonade out of lemons..
In-Reply-To: <4A9BEF04.1000204@dlc.fi>
References: <5e97e2850908302232r3a64bd15kf3d4d0453b4cb8c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A9BEF04.1000204@dlc.fi>
Message-ID: <5e97e2850908312107q2a58198fq94e929cc6a1ebd6c@mail.gmail.com>

thanks so much.. Trying to keep my head up..

On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 8:40 AM, Pekka Savolainen<nuuska at dlc.fi> wrote:
>
> Always have admired you positive attitude, Leigh Anne...
>
> take care,
>
> pekka s
>
>
> Leigh Anne DelRay kirjoitti:
>>
>> Or however that saying goes...
>>
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Wood-Carving-Termites-Sculpture-FUND-RAISER-GOOD-CAUSE_W0QQitemZ260470222566QQcmdZViewItemQQptZArt_Sculpture?hash=item3ca53c2ee6&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
>>
>>
>> Just off topic, and light-heartedness.
>>
>> -Leigh Anne
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database:
>> 270.13.71/2335 - Release Date: 08/30/09 06:36:00
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Pekka Savolainen
>
> Solar Gems
>
> Jokiharjuntie 4
> FI-71330
> Rasala
> FINLAND
>
> member of IMCA #5776
>
> www.imca.cc
>
>


From leighannedelray at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 00:20:55 2009
From: leighannedelray at gmail.com (Leigh Anne DelRay)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:20:55 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Here's to making Lemonade out of lemons..
In-Reply-To: <003401ca2aa2$e5924f40$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain>
References: <5e97e2850908302232r3a64bd15kf3d4d0453b4cb8c7@mail.gmail.com>
	<003401ca2aa2$e5924f40$6401a8c0@EdDeckertMain>
Message-ID: <5e97e2850908312120s6c001496xa86e23d8c40d175e@mail.gmail.com>

Ed,
The termite inspection was done with the guy that was selling it to
us. The house was in a trust and willed to that guy, and he had an
inspection, and let us know that there had been some termite problems
in the past, but it was 'all good now', and we believed him
(unfortunately).
The pest control people have come out and looked at it, and we had two
different ones come just for advice really, and they said that they
two colonies (they are in two rooms in my house) are around 10 -15
years old. And may have been slowed down from time to time with
treatments, but probably never killed off, as the drywood termites are
 hard to kill.
They live their entire lives inside the boards, and die in the boards,
never really ever surface, and never eat through paint or finish, so
you never really see them.
We were very very naive, this was a first house for both of us, we
didn't really know what we were doing, (clearly huh?)
Thanks for everyone's thoughts, it means a lot to me,
only 152 days until the Tucson Gem Show 2010, and we can all be together.
~LA


On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Ed Deckert<edeckert at triad.rr.com> wrote:
> Hi Leigh Anne,
>
> That was a most unfortunate bit of bad luck for your house to have been so
> visited by the species "housus eatemuptis." ?Not something I ever want to
> see in my house.
>
> Did you not have a termite inspection done prior to buying? ?If you did, is
> there no legal recourse for you? ?That seems like an awful lot of damage for
> less than one year's occupancy either by you or the termites for an
> inspector to miss!
>
> I wish you the best.
>
> Ed Deckert
> IMCA #8911
> .
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leigh Anne DelRay"
> <leighannedelray at gmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:32 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Here's to making Lemonade out of lemons..
>
>
>> Or however that saying goes...
>>
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Wood-Carving-Termites-Sculpture-FUND-RAISER-GOOD-CAUSE_W0QQitemZ260470222566QQcmdZViewItemQQptZArt_Sculpture?hash=item3ca53c2ee6&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
>>
>>
>> Just off topic, and light-heartedness.
>>
>> -Leigh Anne
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
>> Database version: 6.13150
>> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>
>
>
>
>
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.1.0.447)
> Database version: 6.13150
> http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/
>


From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep  1 01:15:06 2009
From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 00:15:06 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson in 1807 commented that he
	didn't believe the Weston Meteorite fell out of the sk
Message-ID: <8E6DB87ACA2F47DE91B27F2100D8B4E5@user6e6e286533>

Yes, you all got it right!!!!!!!!! APPLAUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thomas Jefferson did comment in 1807 that he didn't believe that rocks, aka 
"The Weston Meteorite" actually fell out of the sky!!!!

What is the prize that is being offered for answering this trivia question?

Free meteorites, ad space or ALL the ads you want to post in a week on the 
list!!!

Wishing you all clear skies and all the meteorites your home can store.

Have a good one!!!!!

Brian 



From dave at fallingrocks.com  Tue Sep  1 01:40:39 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 01:40:39 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Available for Trade update - AD
Message-ID: <1922EAA6CAB74D8DB67EC31E0E35401F@meteorroom>

All,

Several trade pieces on the link below, including:

* Barbotan (France, 1790)

* Stannern (Czech Republic, 1808)

* and a couple of Nininger items

http://www.fallingrocks.com/trade.htm

All the best,

Dave

Dave Gheesling
IMCA #5967
www.fallingrocks.com 



From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Tue Sep  1 02:23:15 2009
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 02:23:15 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunters Wanted
Message-ID: <E8732E9634904FB0968BE0C7CB6586AF@whitmerjbqtim1>

Mike:

Your best bet by far is the farmers. Like you said, they'll be covering 
every inch of the ground while picking corn, baling stalks, discing, 
plowing. Another good source might be deer hunters, they get out where most 
people never go.  If you go to the diner or coffeeshop where they hang out, 
(look for bib overalls and seed corn brand hats!),  you might be able to 
post fliers. Maybe there are farm organizations you could approach with 
fliers.  If you can get information to the Amish, they might be willing to 
help out. I've given presentations where Amish farmers became interested in 
meteorites and said they would search their rock piles for them. The main 
thing is to get a picture of a smooth black stone in their heads.  Somebody 
might spot something. I used to find arrowheads while driving a tractor as a 
kid, if you can spot a 2 inch point,   then somebody could easily see even a 
small meteorite if they were looking for it.

Sounds like you got it covered, best of luck on your hunt, if you find it, 
at least around here, it'll be forever known as the "Hankey Stone"

Phil Whitmer




From magellon.ken at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 05:06:25 2009
From: magellon.ken at gmail.com (Ken Newton)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 05:06:25 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite
In-Reply-To: <224003.88384.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <659117.42758.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<176698.25375.qm@web43412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<8F686A5048AF49059F9FC9E5C0C092AA@Platinum2>
	<596784.51120.qm@web43411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F17019B337C@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
	<224003.88384.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <c626e3e80909010206x1c626519ye200949c5a581c55@mail.gmail.com>

"Terrestrial Iron-nickel is found in only a few localities and very
sparingly. Specific locations include Kassel, Germany; the Kola
Peninsula, Russia; and Disco Island (Qeqertarsuaq), Greenland. Small
waterworn nuggets were found in the Fraser River, near Lillooet,
British Columbia, Canada, and in the Gorge river, New Zealand.
Terrestrial Iron/Iron-nickel was also found in Josephine Co., Oregon;
Smith River, Del Norte Co., California; Cameron, Clinton Co.,
Missouri; and St. Joseph's island in Lake Huron."
http://www.minerals.net/mineral/elements/iron/iron.htm

Native nickel-iron is also called awaruite, souesite, josephinite.
Best,
ken

On 8/31/09, Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm sorry, I have never heard about that one. Thats pretty interesting, is
> it valuable? Mine doesnt look like that, but I can't see the interior to
> really see what it looks like. Here is a link that works, the one you posted
> didnt work. Thanks.
> http://www.newarkcampus.org/professional/osu/faculty/jstjohn/Josephinite/Josephinite.htm
> Best Wishes,
> Joe Kerchner
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Matson, Robert D." <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>
> To: Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:07:46 PM
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite
>
> Hi Joe,
>
>> I have a small 10.2 gram slice of this on eBay. It could be a chance
> to get it at
>> a really good price. If it is a meteorite, it will be worth a lot. It
> is being
>> tested both at ASU and by Professor A. Basu, who is testing a thin
> slice of it.
>> He thinks it may be a new find. If it turns out not to be a new
> meteorite, it
>> will be a rare terrestrial stone, it tests pos for Ni, we all know
> that there
>> is only 1 know terrestrial stone that contains native FeNi, and it is
> found
>> only in Syberia.
>
> You have forgotten josphenite from Oregon:
>
> http://www.newarkcampus.org/professional/osu/faculty/jstjohn/Josephinite
> /Josephinite.htm
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  1 07:08:26 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 04:08:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted/we are the aliens!
	(off topic)
In-Reply-To: <3905732DC59C4DF4A01676EA7AEEAF08@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <702274.14468.qm@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?
 LOL!
Isn't science fun?

Steve


--- On Mon, 8/31/09, Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted/we are the aliens! (off topic)
> To: "G?ran Axelsson" <axelsson at acc.umu.se>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 1:10 PM
> > That humans have turned sex into
> an amusement park is just an abomination...
> 
> On behalf of amusement park operators every-
> where, I strenuously object to this comment...
> 
> 
> Sterling K. Webb
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "G?ran Axelsson" <axelsson at acc.umu.se>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted/we
> are the aliens! (off topic)
> 
> 
> This answer only deals with evolution and no meteorites.
> Just delete it
> and you will not have missed any meteoritic information.
> 
> Steve Dunklee, I'm not jumping in the discussion about the
> existence of
> aliens but you are making a few mistakes.
> 
> - A change every 10 minutes for one billion years doesn't
> add up to 53
> billion changes, that would be only 53 per year. The real
> number is
> 53000 billions.
> That is only for one cell. You have to add in the
> diversification that a
> planet teeming with life adds to the numbers. How many
> microbes inhabit
> this planet?
> Every cell division gives two new cells and after 1 billion
> years there
> should be 2^53000000000000 cells, more than enough that
> some should give
> rise to humans with a merely 3000000000 base pairs in the
> DNA strain.
> When life got more complex it invented sex to speed up
> development by
> mixing and fusing different DNA strains. (That humans have
> turned sex
> into an amusement park is just an abomination of it's true
> purpose!)
> 
>  :-)
> 
> Ok, that is a looong stretch that a cell should give rise
> to complex
> multi cellular life. I just threw out some big numbers like
> you did.
> Your argument only dealt with one strain of microbe while
> my numbers
> puts no upper limit to the numbers of microbes (biomass).
> The truth lies
> somewhere in between but I leave that for the biologists to
> work on.
> 
> - The other mistake you are doing is to say that there is
> 4^3000000000
> combinations of the human genome. If you change too much of
> the genome
> it isn't a human any longer. Just change 5% percent and you
> could end up
> with a chimpanzee. A bit further and you have a mice. Even
> yeast shares
> a lot of genes with humans.
> More than half of the human DNA seems to be made up of
> junk. Repeated
> expressions, inactive parts left overs from evolution and
> remains of
> viruses.
> 
> Whenever a complex being is reproducing it will change a
> lot of
> different base pair, not only one. As a proof, look at the
> divergence
> between chimpanzee and humans. 5 million years created a 5%
> difference
> between our species. If we take a simplistic view and
> translate that
> into base pairs even though it isn't that easy to compare.
> (It is moved
> parts, added sequences, removed sequences and changed
> parts.) we have an
> approximately difference of 5% of 3 billion, or 150 million
> base pairs
> over 5 million years, or 30 base pairs per year (15 per
> specie). Not
> that big a number at all.
> 
> So I don't find any problems with the reproduction rates
> compared to the
> complexity of our DNA.
> 
> Btw I believe there is life in other places of the universe
> but that is
> only a belief. I have no proof of existence or absence. The
> only thing I
> know is that we soon have the tools to detect traces of
> life if it
> exists in our stellar vicinity.... and that the scientific
> debate
> following a possible find will make the meteorite list seem
> dull.
> 
>  :-)
> 
> /G?ran
> 
> 
> Steve Dunklee wrote:
> > the fastest reproducing micro organism has a
> reproduction rate of once every ten minutes.
> > 
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbe
> > 
> > this reproduction rate if there was one change in dna
> every ten minutes would result in just shy of 53
> billion? different combinations in a billion
> years.? different combinations of dna.
> >? the oldest life on earth is 3.5 billion years
> ago but the change to multi cellular organisms was only
> about 1 billion years ago with stromatolites.
> >? ? the human genome has 4 to the 3 billionth
> power of genetic combinations in its dna and a reproduction
> rate of once every 9 months. as species become more complex
> the reproduction rate decreases.
> > 
> > http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1998-12/912824618.Ge.r.html
> > 
> >? 4 to the 3 billionth power is way over the
> possible 52 billion combinitations assuming one change every
> ten minutes which we all know is impossible.
> >? the only possible explaination of the complexity
> of the human genome and other forms of life on earth is that
> life could not possibly have formed on earth. there has not
> been enough time! even at one surviable change every ten
> minutes. at one change every ten minutes it would still take
> over 2 billion years.
> > 
> > http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1998-12/912824618.Ge.r.html
> > 
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbe
> > 
> > http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200606/s1658283.htm
> > 
> >? I know I don't have all the answeres but it's
> hard to ignore real science of reproduction rates as
> compared to our dna. and the amount of time it takes for
> reproduction to occure.
> >? ???In short we are the aliens!
> > eve a great day!
> > Steve
> > 
> > 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu  Tue Sep  1 07:27:42 2009
From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 04:27:42 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Meteorite Magazine arrived today!
In-Reply-To: <43BE5CCD-1571-4378-8E09-6FAD99F76BC5@mac.com>
References: <e51421550908312002i563af87vea6313076391866b@mail.gmail.com>
	<79405416AD2848E9BB26FE3782E79558@meteorroom>
	<43BE5CCD-1571-4378-8E09-6FAD99F76BC5@mac.com>
Message-ID: <7817b7aa131e34ee8b91991cd965442f.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>

Hi Everyone:

I want to thank ALL of you for your outreach articles and keep them coming
(hint, hint)! I have been going into classrooms with meteorites (and using
them in my college class) long before I took on editorship of Meteorite.

This was one of the main reasons that Nancy and I got involved with
Meteorite magazine: we are all excited about meteorites, so how do we get
kids and the public excited and teach them something at the same time?

It is wonderful to see people who are so passionate about their hobby (or
more than a hobby) and are willing to share that passion with others.

Larry

PS There should be more articles on this subject in the next issue!

> I agree Dave.  Its great to learn about members from our group getting
> out into the community to do educational outreach.  Ahhh, but you're
> being modest - I also enjoyed the article about your exploits with
> school children in a recent Meteorite magazine (sorry memory fails me,
> and my collection is in the office).  Let's all keep up the good work
> in our respective communities!
>
> gary
>
> On Aug 31, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Dave Gheesling wrote:
>
>> Ditto, Mike, but my favorite by far is "My First Meteorite
>> Presentation."
>> Near and dear to my heart, and just wonderful to see you getting
>> into the
>> classroom, Pete...keep it up!
>> All best,
>> Dave
>> www.fallingrocks.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
>> Galactic
>> Stone & Ironworks
>> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:03 PM
>> To: Meteorite List
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] New Meteorite Magazine arrived today!
>>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> The new Meteorite Magazine is in mailboxes now.  I just got mine
>> today and
>> it's a great issue as always.  I can't wait to finish reading the
>> articles.
>> I especially enjoyed the article about the dark inclusions in
>> carbonaceous
>> chondrites.  After reading it, I had to go over my slice of NWA 3144
>> with a
>> loupe to see if it had any such inclusions.
>> It has some nice CAI's, but no dark inclusions.
>>
>> Thanks again to Larry, Nancy and all of the contributors for another
>> fantastic issue. :)
>>
>> Best regards and clear skies,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>> --
>> .........................................................
>> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
>> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
>> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
>> Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone eBay -
>> http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
>> ..........................................................
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> Gary Fujihara
> AstroDay Institute
> 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
> (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
> http://astroday.net
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




From peterscherff at rcn.com  Tue Sep  1 07:36:32 2009
From: peterscherff at rcn.com (Peter Scherff)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 07:36:32 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson in 1807 commented that
	he	didn't believe the Weston Meteorite fell out of the sk
In-Reply-To: <8E6DB87ACA2F47DE91B27F2100D8B4E5@user6e6e286533>
References: <8E6DB87ACA2F47DE91B27F2100D8B4E5@user6e6e286533>
Message-ID: <056301ca2af8$74be8760$5e3b9620$@com>

Hi,
	I have a friend who looked into this famous "quote" of Jefferson's,
he was unable to find a contemporary source for it. Does anyone know of a
source; letter, diary or other account written at the time that Jefferson
supposedly said it? I would love to be able to find it. Until then I would
hesitate to put words into Thomas Jefferson's mouth.

Thanks,

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Brian Cox
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:15 AM
To: GeoZay at aol.com; Becky and Kirk; dave at fallingrocks.com
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson in 1807 commented that he
didn't believe the Weston Meteorite fell out of the sk

Yes, you all got it right!!!!!!!!! APPLAUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thomas Jefferson did comment in 1807 that he didn't believe that rocks, aka 
"The Weston Meteorite" actually fell out of the sky!!!!

What is the prize that is being offered for answering this trivia question?

Free meteorites, ad space or ALL the ads you want to post in a week on the 
list!!!

Wishing you all clear skies and all the meteorites your home can store.

Have a good one!!!!!

Brian 

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From darryl at dof3.com  Tue Sep  1 07:24:08 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 07:24:08 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Something new....
In-Reply-To: <14beaf810908311948n67d35c8ckc41a16b7b76013c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <706E2427-CB0F-4687-A806-BBC14705BB55@dof3.com>
	<14beaf810908311930w4754f766m351214d5326a81c0@mail.gmail.com>
	<166C23C0-D5B5-4314-ADA0-A4626E0A0503@dof3.com>
	<14beaf810908311948n67d35c8ckc41a16b7b76013c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <673966B4-386B-4398-96BF-6A6639571D44@dof3.com>


Hi List,

Joe Kerchner's gorgeous new bencubbinite-like material prompted me to  
do a bit of reading about josephinite and awaruite---which is not  
meant to imply his material is either.

I was taken aback to learn that josephinite is known to exhibit a  
Widmanst?tten pattern---which i had believed until now to be a fool- 
proof diagnostic characteristic in the identification of a  
meteorite.   I had difficulty locating an image of the same.    
Anyone?   Thanks.








From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  1 08:13:25 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 05:13:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted/we are the aliens!
	(off topic)
In-Reply-To: <702274.14468.qm@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <960648.22996.qm@web33207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

gee when was the last time any human had 53 reproductions in one year? even the swine flue and  other organisms have only recorded viable changes in genome " and im realy just guessing here" since it only covers germs that cause sicknesses. of about once every three months. there is something else going on for a recoverey from an exstinction event from the KT boundry  to occure in only 65 million years.
   The material above and below the KT boundry is layered with tectonic events that are about an inch to 3 inches thick. the boundry material has layers between 1 and 4 thousandths of an inch. If we use the amount of layers rather than the thickness of the material to measure the elapsed time. then the recovery time from the extinction event to the time when the reefs recovered  again was was a lot longer than the growth rate of limestone from a reef.
   the .25 to .5 inch KT boundry material with thousands of layers may represent hundreds millions of years, before life returned again on earth. if what happens today is any indication of the past, then life recovered on land, a long time  before the ancient ocean reefs started to deposit limestone agaain. giving plenty of time for the vast diversity of genetic material in land animals .
have a great day
Steve 




> From: Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted/we are the aliens! (off topic)
> To: "G?ran Axelsson" <axelsson at acc.umu.se>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 6:08 AM
> How many licks does it take to get to
> the center of a tootsie pop?
>  LOL!
> Isn't science fun?
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact
> Predicted/we are the aliens! (off topic)
> > To: "G?ran Axelsson" <axelsson at acc.umu.se>,
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 1:10 PM
> > > That humans have turned sex into
> > an amusement park is just an abomination...
> > 
> > On behalf of amusement park operators every-
> > where, I strenuously object to this comment...
> > 
> > 
> > Sterling K. Webb
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "G?ran Axelsson"
> <axelsson at acc.umu.se>
> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:11 AM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact
> Predicted/we
> > are the aliens! (off topic)
> > 
> > 
> > This answer only deals with evolution and no
> meteorites.
> > Just delete it
> > and you will not have missed any meteoritic
> information.
> > 
> > Steve Dunklee, I'm not jumping in the discussion about
> the
> > existence of
> > aliens but you are making a few mistakes.
> > 
> > - A change every 10 minutes for one billion years
> doesn't
> > add up to 53
> > billion changes, that would be only 53 per year. The
> real
> > number is
> > 53000 billions.
> > That is only for one cell. You have to add in the
> > diversification that a
> > planet teeming with life adds to the numbers. How
> many
> > microbes inhabit
> > this planet?
> > Every cell division gives two new cells and after 1
> billion
> > years there
> > should be 2^53000000000000 cells, more than enough
> that
> > some should give
> > rise to humans with a merely 3000000000 base pairs in
> the
> > DNA strain.
> > When life got more complex it invented sex to speed
> up
> > development by
> > mixing and fusing different DNA strains. (That humans
> have
> > turned sex
> > into an amusement park is just an abomination of it's
> true
> > purpose!)
> > 
> >? :-)
> > 
> > Ok, that is a looong stretch that a cell should give
> rise
> > to complex
> > multi cellular life. I just threw out some big numbers
> like
> > you did.
> > Your argument only dealt with one strain of microbe
> while
> > my numbers
> > puts no upper limit to the numbers of microbes
> (biomass).
> > The truth lies
> > somewhere in between but I leave that for the
> biologists to
> > work on.
> > 
> > - The other mistake you are doing is to say that there
> is
> > 4^3000000000
> > combinations of the human genome. If you change too
> much of
> > the genome
> > it isn't a human any longer. Just change 5% percent
> and you
> > could end up
> > with a chimpanzee. A bit further and you have a mice.
> Even
> > yeast shares
> > a lot of genes with humans.
> > More than half of the human DNA seems to be made up
> of
> > junk. Repeated
> > expressions, inactive parts left overs from evolution
> and
> > remains of
> > viruses.
> > 
> > Whenever a complex being is reproducing it will change
> a
> > lot of
> > different base pair, not only one. As a proof, look at
> the
> > divergence
> > between chimpanzee and humans. 5 million years created
> a 5%
> > difference
> > between our species. If we take a simplistic view and
> > translate that
> > into base pairs even though it isn't that easy to
> compare.
> > (It is moved
> > parts, added sequences, removed sequences and changed
> > parts.) we have an
> > approximately difference of 5% of 3 billion, or 150
> million
> > base pairs
> > over 5 million years, or 30 base pairs per year (15
> per
> > specie). Not
> > that big a number at all.
> > 
> > So I don't find any problems with the reproduction
> rates
> > compared to the
> > complexity of our DNA.
> > 
> > Btw I believe there is life in other places of the
> universe
> > but that is
> > only a belief. I have no proof of existence or
> absence. The
> > only thing I
> > know is that we soon have the tools to detect traces
> of
> > life if it
> > exists in our stellar vicinity.... and that the
> scientific
> > debate
> > following a possible find will make the meteorite list
> seem
> > dull.
> > 
> >? :-)
> > 
> > /G?ran
> > 
> > 
> > Steve Dunklee wrote:
> > > the fastest reproducing micro organism has a
> > reproduction rate of once every ten minutes.
> > > 
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbe
> > > 
> > > this reproduction rate if there was one change in
> dna
> > every ten minutes would result in just shy of 53
> > billion? different combinations in a billion
> > years.? different combinations of dna.
> > >? the oldest life on earth is 3.5 billion years
> > ago but the change to multi cellular organisms was
> only
> > about 1 billion years ago with stromatolites.
> > >? ? the human genome has 4 to the 3 billionth
> > power of genetic combinations in its dna and a
> reproduction
> > rate of once every 9 months. as species become more
> complex
> > the reproduction rate decreases.
> > > 
> > > http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1998-12/912824618.Ge.r.html
> > > 
> > >? 4 to the 3 billionth power is way over the
> > possible 52 billion combinitations assuming one change
> every
> > ten minutes which we all know is impossible.
> > >? the only possible explaination of the
> complexity
> > of the human genome and other forms of life on earth
> is that
> > life could not possibly have formed on earth. there
> has not
> > been enough time! even at one surviable change every
> ten
> > minutes. at one change every ten minutes it would
> still take
> > over 2 billion years.
> > > 
> > > http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1998-12/912824618.Ge.r.html
> > > 
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbe
> > > 
> > > http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200606/s1658283.htm
> > > 
> > >? I know I don't have all the answeres but it's
> > hard to ignore real science of reproduction rates as
> > compared to our dna. and the amount of time it takes
> for
> > reproduction to occure.
> > >? ???In short we are the aliens!
> > > eve a great day!
> > > Steve
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From bristolia at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  1 08:40:29 2009
From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 05:40:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mount Wilson Observatory threatened by Los Angeles
	wildfires
Message-ID: <179007.30053.qm@web36202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Mount Wilson Observatory threatened by Los Angeles wildfires, Times Online

http://timesonline.typepad.com/science/2009/09/mount-wilson-observatory-threatened-by-california-wildfires.html

Mount Wilson Observatory Towercam

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~obs/towercam.htm

Mount Wilson Observatory: waiting out the California Station wildfire Space 
News Examiner, September 1, 2009

http://www.examiner.com/x-504-Space-News-Examiner~y2009m9d1-Mount-Wilson-Observatory-waiting-out-the-California-Station-wildfire

Yours,

Paul H.



      


From axelsson at acc.umu.se  Tue Sep  1 09:09:35 2009
From: axelsson at acc.umu.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Axelsson?=)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:09:35 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted/we are the aliens!
 (off topic)
In-Reply-To: <960648.22996.qm@web33207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <960648.22996.qm@web33207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A9D1D0F.2010804@acc.umu.se>

Not "any human"... it's the "human race" and as a specie I think we had 
more than 53 reproductions last year. You know, there are more than 6.7 
billions of us now. Every reproduction is mixing genes from two 
different individuals. That is how you speed up evolution by inventing sex.

"the .25 to .5 inch KT boundry material with thousands of layers may 
represent hundreds millions of years"

No!

Not all species were extinct, just a lot of them. And the fact that we 
are here now just 65 million years later plainly disproves that it would 
represent "hundreds millions of years".
We don't need to count layers or sediment thickness. Just read the 
radioactive decay clocks and you will have the age. You are throwing out 
numbers that is plain wrong again.

/G?ran

Steve Dunklee wrote:
> gee when was the last time any human had 53 reproductions in one year? even the swine flue and  other organisms have only recorded viable changes in genome " and im realy just guessing here" since it only covers germs that cause sicknesses. of about once every three months. there is something else going on for a recoverey from an exstinction event from the KT boundry  to occure in only 65 million years.
>    The material above and below the KT boundry is layered with tectonic events that are about an inch to 3 inches thick. the boundry material has layers between 1 and 4 thousandths of an inch. If we use the amount of layers rather than the thickness of the material to measure the elapsed time. then the recovery time from the extinction event to the time when the reefs recovered  again was was a lot longer than the growth rate of limestone from a reef.
>    the .25 to .5 inch KT boundry material with thousands of layers may represent hundreds millions of years, before life returned again on earth. if what happens today is any indication of the past, then life recovered on land, a long time  before the ancient ocean reefs started to deposit limestone agaain. giving plenty of time for the vast diversity of genetic material in land animals .
> have a great day
> Steve 
>
>
>
>
>   
>> From: Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted/we are the aliens! (off topic)
>> To: "G?ran Axelsson" <axelsson at acc.umu.se>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
>> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 6:08 AM
>> How many licks does it take to get to
>> the center of a tootsie pop?
>>  LOL!
>> Isn't science fun?
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact
>>>       
>> Predicted/we are the aliens! (off topic)
>>     
>>> To: "G?ran Axelsson" <axelsson at acc.umu.se>,
>>>       
>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>     
>>> Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 1:10 PM
>>>       
>>>> That humans have turned sex into
>>>>         
>>> an amusement park is just an abomination...
>>>
>>> On behalf of amusement park operators every-
>>> where, I strenuously object to this comment...
>>>
>>>
>>> Sterling K. Webb
>>>
>>>       
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>     
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "G?ran Axelsson"
>>>       
>> <axelsson at acc.umu.se>
>>     
>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:11 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact
>>>       
>> Predicted/we
>>     
>>> are the aliens! (off topic)
>>>
>>>
>>> This answer only deals with evolution and no
>>>       
>> meteorites.
>>     
>>> Just delete it
>>> and you will not have missed any meteoritic
>>>       
>> information.
>>     
>>> Steve Dunklee, I'm not jumping in the discussion about
>>>       
>> the
>>     
>>> existence of
>>> aliens but you are making a few mistakes.
>>>
>>> - A change every 10 minutes for one billion years
>>>       
>> doesn't
>>     
>>> add up to 53
>>> billion changes, that would be only 53 per year. The
>>>       
>> real
>>     
>>> number is
>>> 53000 billions.
>>> That is only for one cell. You have to add in the
>>> diversification that a
>>> planet teeming with life adds to the numbers. How
>>>       
>> many
>>     
>>> microbes inhabit
>>> this planet?
>>> Every cell division gives two new cells and after 1
>>>       
>> billion
>>     
>>> years there
>>> should be 2^53000000000000 cells, more than enough
>>>       
>> that
>>     
>>> some should give
>>> rise to humans with a merely 3000000000 base pairs in
>>>       
>> the
>>     
>>> DNA strain.
>>> When life got more complex it invented sex to speed
>>>       
>> up
>>     
>>> development by
>>> mixing and fusing different DNA strains. (That humans
>>>       
>> have
>>     
>>> turned sex
>>> into an amusement park is just an abomination of it's
>>>       
>> true
>>     
>>> purpose!)
>>>
>>>   :-)
>>>
>>> Ok, that is a looong stretch that a cell should give
>>>       
>> rise
>>     
>>> to complex
>>> multi cellular life. I just threw out some big numbers
>>>       
>> like
>>     
>>> you did.
>>> Your argument only dealt with one strain of microbe
>>>       
>> while
>>     
>>> my numbers
>>> puts no upper limit to the numbers of microbes
>>>       
>> (biomass).
>>     
>>> The truth lies
>>> somewhere in between but I leave that for the
>>>       
>> biologists to
>>     
>>> work on.
>>>
>>> - The other mistake you are doing is to say that there
>>>       
>> is
>>     
>>> 4^3000000000
>>> combinations of the human genome. If you change too
>>>       
>> much of
>>     
>>> the genome
>>> it isn't a human any longer. Just change 5% percent
>>>       
>> and you
>>     
>>> could end up
>>> with a chimpanzee. A bit further and you have a mice.
>>>       
>> Even
>>     
>>> yeast shares
>>> a lot of genes with humans.
>>> More than half of the human DNA seems to be made up
>>>       
>> of
>>     
>>> junk. Repeated
>>> expressions, inactive parts left overs from evolution
>>>       
>> and
>>     
>>> remains of
>>> viruses.
>>>
>>> Whenever a complex being is reproducing it will change
>>>       
>> a
>>     
>>> lot of
>>> different base pair, not only one. As a proof, look at
>>>       
>> the
>>     
>>> divergence
>>> between chimpanzee and humans. 5 million years created
>>>       
>> a 5%
>>     
>>> difference
>>> between our species. If we take a simplistic view and
>>> translate that
>>> into base pairs even though it isn't that easy to
>>>       
>> compare.
>>     
>>> (It is moved
>>> parts, added sequences, removed sequences and changed
>>> parts.) we have an
>>> approximately difference of 5% of 3 billion, or 150
>>>       
>> million
>>     
>>> base pairs
>>> over 5 million years, or 30 base pairs per year (15
>>>       
>> per
>>     
>>> specie). Not
>>> that big a number at all.
>>>
>>> So I don't find any problems with the reproduction
>>>       
>> rates
>>     
>>> compared to the
>>> complexity of our DNA.
>>>
>>> Btw I believe there is life in other places of the
>>>       
>> universe
>>     
>>> but that is
>>> only a belief. I have no proof of existence or
>>>       
>> absence. The
>>     
>>> only thing I
>>> know is that we soon have the tools to detect traces
>>>       
>> of
>>     
>>> life if it
>>> exists in our stellar vicinity.... and that the
>>>       
>> scientific
>>     
>>> debate
>>> following a possible find will make the meteorite list
>>>       
>> seem
>>     
>>> dull.
>>>
>>>   :-)
>>>
>>> /G?ran
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve Dunklee wrote:
>>>       
>>>> the fastest reproducing micro organism has a
>>>>         
>>> reproduction rate of once every ten minutes.
>>>       
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbe
>>>>
>>>> this reproduction rate if there was one change in
>>>>         
>> dna
>>     
>>> every ten minutes would result in just shy of 53
>>> billion  different combinations in a billion
>>> years.  different combinations of dna.
>>>       
>>>>   the oldest life on earth is 3.5 billion years
>>>>         
>>> ago but the change to multi cellular organisms was
>>>       
>> only
>>     
>>> about 1 billion years ago with stromatolites.
>>>       
>>>>     the human genome has 4 to the 3 billionth
>>>>         
>>> power of genetic combinations in its dna and a
>>>       
>> reproduction
>>     
>>> rate of once every 9 months. as species become more
>>>       
>> complex
>>     
>>> the reproduction rate decreases.
>>>       
>>>> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1998-12/912824618.Ge.r.html
>>>>
>>>>   4 to the 3 billionth power is way over the
>>>>         
>>> possible 52 billion combinitations assuming one change
>>>       
>> every
>>     
>>> ten minutes which we all know is impossible.
>>>       
>>>>   the only possible explaination of the
>>>>         
>> complexity
>>     
>>> of the human genome and other forms of life on earth
>>>       
>> is that
>>     
>>> life could not possibly have formed on earth. there
>>>       
>> has not
>>     
>>> been enough time! even at one surviable change every
>>>       
>> ten
>>     
>>> minutes. at one change every ten minutes it would
>>>       
>> still take
>>     
>>> over 2 billion years.
>>>       
>>>> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/1998-12/912824618.Ge.r.html
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbe
>>>>
>>>> http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200606/s1658283.htm
>>>>
>>>>   I know I don't have all the answeres but it's
>>>>         
>>> hard to ignore real science of reproduction rates as
>>> compared to our dna. and the amount of time it takes
>>>       
>> for
>>     
>>> reproduction to occure.
>>>       
>>>>      In short we are the aliens!
>>>> eve a great day!
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>       
>>       
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>     
>
>
>       
>
>   



From vk3ukf at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  1 09:52:38 2009
From: vk3ukf at hotmail.com (Kevin Forbes)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 23:52:38 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.156.1251806054.95372.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.156.1251806054.95372.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <BAY110-W18176AF4C44F643AACFEDA99F10@phx.gbl>


G'day, how are you all?

I was wandering around Google Gadgets.

The result for a search of the keyword 'meteorite' was dismal, it resulted in basically, a few games.

Must be someone can make a gadget for what's cool on the met-list, or in meteorite land.

----------------------------------------


_________________________________________________________________
Take a peek at other people's pay and perks Check out The Great Australian Pay Check
http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/

From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Tue Sep  1 10:03:58 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:03:58 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson in 1807 commented
	thathe	didn't believe the Weston Meteorite fell out of the sk
Message-ID: <1284996281-1251813917-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1413581139-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Jefferson's famous quote is researched in the book "The History of Meteorites and Key Meteorite Collections" (2006).  In summary, the book states that it is hearsay and "would not be acceptable in a court of law".  Basically there is no truth to the matter; no documentation of him ever saying those words.

Matt Morgan
------Original Message------
From: Peter Scherff
Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson in 1807 commented thathe	didn't believe the Weston Meteorite fell out of the sk
Sent: Sep 1, 2009 5:36 AM

Hi,
	I have a friend who looked into this famous "quote" of Jefferson's,
he was unable to find a contemporary source for it. Does anyone know of a
source; letter, diary or other account written at the time that Jefferson
supposedly said it? I would love to be able to find it. Until then I would
hesitate to put words into Thomas Jefferson's mouth.

Thanks,

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Brian Cox
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:15 AM
To: GeoZay at aol.com; Becky and Kirk; dave at fallingrocks.com
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson in 1807 commented that he
didn't believe the Weston Meteorite fell out of the sk

Yes, you all got it right!!!!!!!!! APPLAUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thomas Jefferson did comment in 1807 that he didn't believe that rocks, aka 
"The Weston Meteorite" actually fell out of the sky!!!!

What is the prize that is being offered for answering this trivia question?

Free meteorites, ad space or ALL the ads you want to post in a week on the 
list!!!

Wishing you all clear skies and all the meteorites your home can store.

Have a good one!!!!!

Brian 

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA

From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Tue Sep  1 10:07:38 2009
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 08:07:38 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson in 1807 commented
	thathe	didn't believe the Weston Meteorite fell out of the sk
References: <8E6DB87ACA2F47DE91B27F2100D8B4E5@user6e6e286533>
	<056301ca2af8$74be8760$5e3b9620$@com>
Message-ID: <EF226729665E4681AC21966122B12343@bellatrix>

The quote is apparently anecdotal. Quite a few people have sought out its 
source in Jefferson's writings, AFAIK without success. Jefferson did 
acknowledge the existence of meteoritic material, and recommended its study 
by American academics. Personally, I don't believe he ever made the 
statement, simply because the structure of the comment doesn't ring true to 
Jefferson's writing style.

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Scherff" <peterscherff at rcn.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 5:36 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson in 1807 commented thathe 
didn't believe the Weston Meteorite fell out of the sk


> Hi,
> I have a friend who looked into this famous "quote" of Jefferson's,
> he was unable to find a contemporary source for it. Does anyone know of a
> source; letter, diary or other account written at the time that Jefferson
> supposedly said it? I would love to be able to find it. Until then I would
> hesitate to put words into Thomas Jefferson's mouth.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter



From info at meteorites.com.au  Tue Sep  1 10:37:23 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 00:37:23 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
In-Reply-To: <1284996281-1251813917-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1413581139-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1284996281-1251813917-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1413581139-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <642E11B4996142F98C6CA8C1AA73C0F5@JeffPC>

I remember reading about this when I did my Weston page a while back. I 
can't remember where I found all the info now but I think there were a few 
sources I compiled together. In 1808 Jefferson allegedly wrote a response to 
Daniel Salmon about the Weston fall. It's all here:

http://www.meteorites.com.au/favourite/december2007.html

Cheers,

Jeff



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Morgan" <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
To: "Peter Scherff" <peterscherff at rcn.com>; 
<meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson in 1807 commentedthathe 
didn't believe the Weston Meteorite fell out of the sk


> Jefferson's famous quote is researched in the book "The History of 
> Meteorites and Key Meteorite Collections" (2006).  In summary, the book 
> states that it is hearsay and "would not be acceptable in a court of law". 
> Basically there is no truth to the matter; no documentation of him ever 
> saying those words.
>
> Matt Morgan
> ------Original Message------
> From: Peter Scherff
> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson in 1807 commented thathe 
> didn't believe the Weston Meteorite fell out of the sk
> Sent: Sep 1, 2009 5:36 AM
>
> Hi,
> I have a friend who looked into this famous "quote" of Jefferson's,
> he was unable to find a contemporary source for it. Does anyone know of a
> source; letter, diary or other account written at the time that Jefferson
> supposedly said it? I would love to be able to find it. Until then I would
> hesitate to put words into Thomas Jefferson's mouth.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Brian 
> Cox
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:15 AM
> To: GeoZay at aol.com; Becky and Kirk; dave at fallingrocks.com
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson in 1807 commented that he
> didn't believe the Weston Meteorite fell out of the sk
>
> Yes, you all got it right!!!!!!!!! APPLAUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Thomas Jefferson did comment in 1807 that he didn't believe that rocks, 
> aka
> "The Weston Meteorite" actually fell out of the sky!!!!
>
> What is the prize that is being offered for answering this trivia 
> question?
>
> Free meteorites, ad space or ALL the ads you want to post in a week on the
> list!!!
>
> Wishing you all clear skies and all the meteorites your home can store.
>
> Have a good one!!!!!
>
> Brian
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ----------------------
> Matt Morgan
> Mile High Meteorites
> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> P.O. Box 151293
> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  1 10:59:23 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 07:59:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Weston and Murchison meteorites for sale.
Message-ID: <71601.42592.qm@web53104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Please contact me off list for prices and weights.  Thank you.  DIrk Ross..Tokyo



From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Tue Sep  1 11:26:36 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 01 Sep 2009 15:26:36 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston (Part 1)
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000009400003FA7@paulinet.de>

ASTRONOMY NOW, Dec 99, p. 74

Key Moments in Astronomy

Talking boldes - An astronomical controversy explodes in December 1807.

Thomas Jefferson, third wisest President of the United States, is doomed to appear in astronomy books
as an awful warning to us all. Author after author claims that Jefferson sneered  at meteors. When one
exploded over Weston, Connecticut, on December 14, 1807, he is said to have declared "I should
sooner believe that Yankee professors should lie than that stones should fall from heaven".

The presence of "Yankee" and the triple "should" instantly suggests that the quote is apocryphal.
Jefferson's speech was unfailingly elegant and, as so often, the truth is more entertaining than the
legend.

At 7a.m. on December 14, Mrs. Gardener of Wenham, Massachusetts, chanced to look out of the window.
She was startled to notice a bright object whizzing across the sky and exclaimed "where is the Moon going
to?" Recovering her composure she watched as a brilliant fireball soared overhead.
 
A few moments later Judge Wheeler of Weston was taking an early morning stroll. "The attention of
Judge Wheeler was first drawn by a sudden flash of light, which illuminated every object. Looking up
he discovered in the north a globe of fire, just then passing behind a cloud ... Its apparent diameter
was about one half or two thirds the apparent diameter of the full moon. Its progress was not so rapid
as that of common meteors or shooting stars".

No common meteor would have dared appear before the Judge, who admiringly noted its "brisk
scintillation... It did not vanish instantaneously, but grew, pretty rapidly, fainter and fainter,
as a red hot cannon ball would do, if cooling in the dark, only with much more rapidity...
[followed by] three loud and distinct reports... [and] a rapid succession of reports less loud".

150 kg of stony fragments were eagerly collected. One of the collectors wrote to President Jefferson,
with a rather unusual proposal. The statesman replied on February 15, 1808, with a characteristic
combination of politeness and sly wit. "Sir," he wrote. "I have duly received your letter of the 8th
instant, on the subject of the stone in your possession, supposed meteoric. Its descent from the
atmosphere presents so much difficulty as to require careful examination. But I do not know that
the most effectual examination could be made by the members of the National Legislature, to whom
you have thought of exhibiting it ... I should think that an enquiry by some one of our scientific
societies ... would most likely to be directed with such caution and knowledge of the subject,
as would inspire a general confidence."

This elegant evasion is the origin of the myth of Jefferson as meteor-hater. In reality the President was
sceptical of the ability of contemporary science to do much more than guess at the nature of the Weston
meteor. And he was right. When Nathaniel Bowditch, America's leading astronomer, investigated the fall
he concluded that the object weighed 6,000,000 tons and was a previously unnoticed earth satellite!
Doubtless the President allowed himself a smile. (Ian Seymour)



From axelsson at acc.umu.se  Tue Sep  1 11:40:18 2009
From: axelsson at acc.umu.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?G=F6ran_Axelsson?=)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:40:18 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite
In-Reply-To: <224003.88384.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <659117.42758.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com><176698.25375.qm@web43412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><8F686A5048AF49059F9FC9E5C0C092AA@Platinum2>	<596784.51120.qm@web43411.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>	<7C640E28081AEE4B952F008D1E913F17019B337C@0461-its-exmb04.us.saic.com>
	<224003.88384.qm@web43415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4A9D4062.2060500@acc.umu.se>

Joe Kerchner wrote:
> I'm sorry, I have never heard about that one. Thats pretty interesting, is it valuable? Mine doesnt look like that, but I can't see the interior to really see what it looks like. Here is a link that works, the one you posted didnt work. Thanks.
> http://www.newarkcampus.org/professional/osu/faculty/jstjohn/Josephinite/Josephinite.htm
> Best Wishes,
> Joe Kerchner
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Matson, Robert D." <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>
> To: Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:07:46 PM
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Possible new Illinois meteorite
>
> Hi Joe,
>
>   
>> I have a small 10.2 gram slice of this on eBay. It could be a chance to get it at
>>     
>> a really good price. If it is a meteorite, it will be worth a lot. It is being
>>     
>> tested both at ASU and by Professor A. Basu, who is testing a thin slice of it.
>>     
>> He thinks it may be a new find. If it turns out not to be a new meteorite, it
>>     
>> will be a rare terrestrial stone, it tests pos for Ni, we all know that there
>>     
>> is only 1 know terrestrial stone that contains native FeNi, and it is found
>>     
>> only in Syberia.
>>     
>
> You have forgotten josphenite from Oregon:
>
> http://www.newarkcampus.org/professional/osu/faculty/jstjohn/Josephinite
> /Josephinite.htm
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
>
>   

Or as it's IMA approved mineral name is, awaruite.
Data : http://www.mindat.org/min-439.html
Pictures : http://www.mindat.org/gallery.php?min=439

/G?ran


From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Tue Sep  1 11:37:28 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 01 Sep 2009 15:37:28 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston (Part 2)
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000009300003FAA@paulinet.de>

BURKE J.G. (1986) Cosmic Debris - Meteorites in History, p. 57:

It was not until October 1805 that Ellicott received published material from France,
which convinced him that stones did fall, that they had an unusual composition and
texture, and that they were generated in the atmosphere. He advised Jefferson of his
conversion, and Jefferson responded on 25 October 1805. He wrote that he had not
seen the documents to which Ellicott referred, but that he had read Izam's Lithologie
atmosph?rique, which was "an industrious collection" of facts of the same kind:

"I do not say that I disbelieve the testimony but neither can I say I believe it. Chemistry
is too much in its infancy to satisfy us that the lapidific elements exist in the atmosphere
and that the process can be completed there. I do not know that this would be against
the laws of nature and therefore I do not say it is impossible; but as it is so much unlike
any operation of nature we have ever seen it requires testimony proportionately strong."

This passage indicates that Jefferson's skepticism was not about the fall of meteorites,
but about their generation in the atmosphere. It is in this light that we should attempt
to judge whether or not the remark so often attributed to him following the fall of the
Weston meteorite two years later is apocryphal - namely, "It is easier to believe that
two Yankee professors would lie than that stones would fall from heaven." In his
Discourse on Jefferson, Samuel Latham Mitchill reported that soon after the Weston
fall, he received an account and a specimen from friends.

A senator who was to dine with Jefferson that evening asked to borrow the report and
sample to show to the President and request his comments. When presented with the
evidence, Jefferson, according to Mitchill's friend, said that "it is all a lie." Later,
on 15 February 1808, in a reply to a letter from a citizen offering to send a fragment of
the Weston stone for an official examination by the Congress, Jefferson suggested that
the members of a scientific society would be better qualified to examine the stone,
"supposed meteoric," than those of the national legislature. He continued:

"We certainly are not to deny whatever we cannot account for. A thousand phenomena
present themselves daily which we cannot explain, but where facts are suggested, bearing
no analogy with the laws of nature as yet known to us, their verity needs proof proportioned
to their difficulty. A cautious mind will weigh the opposition of the phenomenon to everything
hitherto observed, the strength of the testimony by which it is supported, and the error and
misconceptions to which even our senses are liable. It may be very difficult to explain how
the stone you possess came into the position in which it was found. But is it easier to explain
how it got into the clouds from whence it is supposed to have fallen? The actual fact however
is the thing to be established."

The tenor and even the wording of this letter is quite similar as that in Jefferson's December 1803
reply to Ellicott. It is possible that, upon reflection, he dismissed the notion of the atmospheric
generation of stones and reverted to his original ambivalence about their fall. One other point
is relevant. At the time of the Weston fall, the New England states were in an uproar about the
economic effects of the Jeffersonian-sponsored Embargo Act of November 1806, and there was
even talk of secession. Jefferson was antagonistic to the New Englanders, because they sought to
circumvent the embargo by smuggling goods into Canada. It is therefore possible that soon after
the fall and before the American Philosophical Society in March 1808 heard Silliman's report and
accepted his memoir for publication, Jefferson, in a fit of temper, made the remark. But scholars
have not yet located the source, so that at this time it must remain conjectural.



From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep  1 11:58:11 2009
From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:58:11 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson and Weston
Message-ID: <E8FAC412C362467099E2AFF390FA8C19@user6e6e286533>

Thank you Jeff, I knew I had read where someone put that information 
together on their website. You did a great job!!!
Actually, I am a very, very, "Old Dog" and I was in my early 50s when 
Jefferson commented on the Weston. I just didn't want to reveal my age on 
the list. Thanks again everyone for playing "Presidential and Meteorite 
Trivia!"

Now our next trivia question!

Have a great day everyone!

Brian 



From maurizio.eltri at libero.it  Tue Sep  1 12:02:10 2009
From: maurizio.eltri at libero.it (Maurizio Eltri)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:02:10 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] I looking for Sikhote Alin
Message-ID: <4A92A0CB006C36ED@cp-out9.libero.it> (added by
	postmaster@cp-out9.libero.it)

I would like to buy a good price, small and
large pieces of Sikhote Alin regmagliptized.
Answer me privately.
Thanks
Maurizio Eltri
maurizio.eltri at libero.it



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Tue Sep  1 12:07:19 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 12:07:19 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
Message-ID: <283142EF87F54F01BD09726E965CBAA2@ET>

Oh great, what's next; Carl Sagan didn't actually say "billions and 
billions"?  Bogey never said "Play it again, Sam", the stereotypical Mexican 
bandito never actually said: "We don't need no stinking badges"? Winston 
Churchill never said: "I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be 
sober and you will still be ugly."? (Never have believed in that one, way 
too mysogenistic and mean).  And little Timmy Martin never actually fell 
down a well (I think Lassie did once). And on and on and on......

At least we have good genetic evidence that he knocked up Sally Hemmings.

Phil Whitmer





From pshugar at clearwire.net  Tue Sep  1 12:21:59 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 11:21:59 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re meteorite Magazine
Message-ID: <6A8D21712DC645C1A0AC362592EE40FF@laptop>

This is so unfair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everyone is talking about my article and my copy is not in my 
mailbox.  I looked three times yesterday.
Pete



From cynapse at charter.net  Tue Sep  1 13:47:56 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 12:47:56 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
In-Reply-To: <283142EF87F54F01BD09726E965CBAA2@ET>
References: <283142EF87F54F01BD09726E965CBAA2@ET>
Message-ID: <0hnq95104haol37q6m34718tjj853g8i95@4ax.com>

On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 12:07:19 -0400, you wrote:

>billions"?  Bogey never said "Play it again, Sam"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casablanca_%28film%29#Quotations

Sorry.


From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 13:04:40 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:04:40 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Hard Copy Meteorite Catalogs
Message-ID: <f0a794130909011004h1eb0b985ja39baddb22b003b1@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Guys,

I'm doing a few direct mailers out to the local population in
lancaster. I want to include some good color pictures of meteorites. I
figured some people on this list, might already have catalogs printed
that would feature the types of images I want to include.

It would be much easier for me to mail out a few pages of a catalog
(or even the entire catalog), than it would be to make up and print
these up on my own.

So my question is: Has anyone out there produced printed catalogs or
marketing materials that feature good pictures of meteorites? If you
had printed inventory on hand, I would be willing to buy a few 100
catalogs from you. Or if you had the EPS file / printers file, and you
were willing to share it with me, I can print the stuff up on my own.

Ideally I just need 1 or 2 pages, but I could work with a complete
catalog as well.

Thanks,

Mike Hankey
http://www.mikesastrophotos.com


From cynapse at charter.net  Tue Sep  1 14:45:30 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 13:45:30 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bolide?
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909011004h1eb0b985ja39baddb22b003b1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0a794130909011004h1eb0b985ja39baddb22b003b1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4tqq959ubtkbu67n5a9ssg887ecdovs1m0@4ax.com>

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1210447/Father-snaps-meteor-camera-phone-speeds-sky.html


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  1 13:39:03 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:39:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
In-Reply-To: <0hnq95104haol37q6m34718tjj853g8i95@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <722654.83442.qm@web33908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Yep, and Sagan never did say "Billions and billions." Pop in your Cosmos dvds and you'll hear him say it once, several times in the sereis, but never twice in one sentence.

Sorry again...

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net> wrote:

> From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 10:47 AM
> On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 12:07:19 -0400,
> you wrote:
> 
> >billions"?? Bogey never said "Play it again, Sam"
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casablanca_%28film%29#Quotations
> 
> Sorry.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  1 13:41:18 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 10:41:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bolide?
In-Reply-To: <4tqq959ubtkbu67n5a9ssg887ecdovs1m0@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <875034.56129.qm@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Nope, as Aaron from Utah states in the comments, it's a Sun dog.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_dog

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net> wrote:

> From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Bolide?
> To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 11:45 AM
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1210447/Father-snaps-meteor-camera-phone-speeds-sky.html
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep  1 14:25:00 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:25:00 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
References: <283142EF87F54F01BD09726E965CBAA2@ET>
Message-ID: <CBF51F274E0148B5AAFD7F3F31A26955@ATARIENGINE2>

> the stereotypical Mexican bandito never actually said: "We don't need 
> no stinking badges"?

Of course he did, but this is the only entry on
your list that doesn't have a name. He desrves
to be mentioned by name. Alfonso Bedoya (1904-
1957), the great Mexican character actor and
veteran of 77 movies, played the bandit who
continually threatens the gold-hunters (Bogart,
Tim Holt, and Walter Houston) in the 1948
triple-Oscar-winner, "The Treasure of the Sierra
Madre."  In one scene, he claims he and his men
are  "Federales." Bogart asks to see his badge,
and he replies, famously, "Badges? We doan
neeed no steenkin' badges!" It's one of the
great lines in movie history and -- you know
The Biz -- credits are everything.

Oh, and Bogart DIDN'T say "Play it again, Sam!"
He said, "Play it, Sam!" No "again."

Whoops!


Sterling K. Webb
-----------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:07 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston


> Oh great, what's next; Carl Sagan didn't actually say "billions and 
> billions"?  Bogey never said "Play it again, Sam", the stereotypical 
> Mexican bandito never actually said: "We don't need no stinking 
> badges"? Winston Churchill never said: "I may be drunk, Miss, but in 
> the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly."? (Never have 
> believed in that one, way too mysogenistic and mean).  And little 
> Timmy Martin never actually fell down a well (I think Lassie did 
> once). And on and on and on......
>
> At least we have good genetic evidence that he knocked up Sally 
> Hemmings.
>
> Phil Whitmer
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  1 14:28:06 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 11:28:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bolide?  Doggone?
Message-ID: <906785.60941.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

 --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:
> 
> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bolide?? Doggone?
> To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 11:09 AM
> 
> Hiya,
> 
> If the description of the object's transit through the
sky
> is? 
> accurate, I would have to disagree.

I would too, but it's an embellishment to make his story
interesting.

> (As the resolution of the camera is weak, and focus
> limited, a bolide? 
> could readily blur into a sun dog-like appearance.)?
> /d
> 

Nope, if that were true the entire image would show the
distortions.
If you look at the images on the wiki page, or google sun
dogs and click on images you'll see many examples that look
exactly like this one.
It is an *extremely* common phenomena...

Almost no one looks up any longer, so even the most common
phenomena are unknown to just about everyone. I highly
recommend _The Nature of Light and Colour in the Open Air_

http://tinyurl.com/no2ej9

It's a great book. I've witnessed nearly everything
contained within its pages.

Richard


      


From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Tue Sep  1 14:28:26 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:28:26 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
Message-ID: <F95DE6974D804BEE80012EE004E3699B@ET>

Richard, Darren;

Wasn't it clear I was making fun of popular misquotes?  I thought I was 
being pretty obvious. It's called irony, a commonly used  literary device.

While Carl never said billions and billions in his Cosmos series (duh!) he 
did say it in the title of his book; Billions and Billions.  So he did say 
it.  He's  making fun of people's misquotes ala Jon Provost's (Lassie's 
master):  Timmy's In The Well.  This is funny because at the time the 
running joke was, when Lassie would run up and bark, you would go what's the 
matter Lassie, Timmy fell down a well? Of course Timmy never fell down a 
well, see, that's why it's funny. Even though Lassie fell down a well once 
in season's 17, "Well of Love".

Phil Whitmer 



From GeoZay at aol.com  Tue Sep  1 14:33:28 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:33:28 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Hard Copy Meteorite Catalogs
Message-ID: <d12.29a49b15.37cec2f8@aol.com>

Mike...I'd recommend you find some photos that  were taken by those who 
found West Meteorites in Texas earlier this year. Any  meteorites that you will 
probably find will probably look similar to  these...black and rounded etc. 
If you try to include a big variety of colors and  looks etc, I think you 
might confuse those who will be doing the looking.  
GeoZay  



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 14:34:58 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:34:58 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
In-Reply-To: <CBF51F274E0148B5AAFD7F3F31A26955@ATARIENGINE2>
References: <283142EF87F54F01BD09726E965CBAA2@ET>
	<CBF51F274E0148B5AAFD7F3F31A26955@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <f0a794130909011134g2cc88858rd4112ce8a7ff27ba@mail.gmail.com>

wow, you learn something new everyday on the meteorite list. I always
thought this saying came from Cheek and Chong's Up in Smoke.

On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Sterling K.
Webb<sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> the stereotypical Mexican bandito never actually said: "We don't need no
>> stinking badges"?
>
> Of course he did, but this is the only entry on
> your list that doesn't have a name. He desrves
> to be mentioned by name. Alfonso Bedoya (1904-
> 1957), the great Mexican character actor and
> veteran of 77 movies, played the bandit who
> continually threatens the gold-hunters (Bogart,
> Tim Holt, and Walter Houston) in the 1948
> triple-Oscar-winner, "The Treasure of the Sierra
> Madre." ?In one scene, he claims he and his men
> are ?"Federales." Bogart asks to see his badge,
> and he replies, famously, "Badges? We doan
> neeed no steenkin' badges!" It's one of the
> great lines in movie history and -- you know
> The Biz -- credits are everything.
>
> Oh, and Bogart DIDN'T say "Play it again, Sam!"
> He said, "Play it, Sam!" No "again."
>
> Whoops!
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum"
> <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:07 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
>
>
>> Oh great, what's next; Carl Sagan didn't actually say "billions and
>> billions"? ?Bogey never said "Play it again, Sam", the stereotypical Mexican
>> bandito never actually said: "We don't need no stinking badges"? Winston
>> Churchill never said: "I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be
>> sober and you will still be ugly."? (Never have believed in that one, way
>> too mysogenistic and mean). ?And little Timmy Martin never actually fell
>> down a well (I think Lassie did once). And on and on and on......
>>
>> At least we have good genetic evidence that he knocked up Sally Hemmings.
>>
>> Phil Whitmer
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From GeoZay at aol.com  Tue Sep  1 14:36:36 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:36:36 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
Message-ID: <c56.6159b7ac.37cec3b4@aol.com>

>> the stereotypical Mexican bandito never  actually said: "We don't need 
> no stinking badges"?>>

I  think it was said in Blazing Saddles too.
geozay  



From darryl at dof3.com  Tue Sep  1 14:09:04 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:09:04 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bolide?  Doggone?
In-Reply-To: <875034.56129.qm@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <875034.56129.qm@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0F1EC3C1-5927-4850-A8D7-FAB525C0F664@dof3.com>


Hiya,

If the description of the object's transit through the sky is  
accurate, I would have to disagree.
(As the resolution of the camera is weak, and focus limited, a bolide  
could readily blur into a sun dog-like appearance.)  /d



On Sep 1, 2009, at 1:41 PM, Richard Kowalski wrote:

> Nope, as Aaron from Utah states in the comments, it's a Sun dog.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_dog
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
> --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Bolide?
>> To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 11:45 AM
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1210447/Father-snaps-meteor-camera-phone-speeds-sky.html
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Tue Sep  1 14:40:19 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:40:19 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
Message-ID: <3E062F3679374F899431A9CCB1EC7C11@ET>

Sterling,

Sorry but you're wrong, you're quoting the parody of the line from Blazing 
Saddles.
The actual quote is
Dobbs: 'If you're the police where are your badges?'
Gold Hat: 'Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't 
have to show you any stinkin' badges!'

I shouldn't have to explain that irony is a literary device where you feign 
ignorance for comic effect.

So while Sagan did say Billions and Billions in his book title, Alfonso 
Bedoya never said: "We don't need no stinking badges".

I should know, I've seen both movies,  dozens of times.

Phil (Get a grip Dobsie!) Whitmer




From mikewren at gilanet.com  Tue Sep  1 14:43:57 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 11:43:57 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: AUCTIONS ENDING WEDS/2nd- With Highlights
	Below-You Will Cry If You Miss Some Of These *
Message-ID: <66BC782C-C74B-459B-A24F-8EF412D7DD71@gilanet.com>


Hello,

Here is another great group of meteorite auctions this week! Please  
check them out.

ALL AUCTIONS HERE:

http://shop.ebay.com:80/merchant/meteorite-collector_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ


ALL BONDOC SPECIMENS HERE (SALE ENDS SOON! I will consider trades on  
Larger Bondoc Specimens, if you would like!)

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/VOYAGE-BOTANICA-NATURAL-HISTORY__W0QQ_sidZ1015304?_nkw=bondoc&submit=Search






HIGHLIGHTS! Check these superb specimens out!

A Beautiful Slice Of LUEDERS, Silicated 49.9g ... An Amazing Slice of  
a very rare silicated Iron!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377276705

CANYON DIABLO Individual, IAB Iron, 1136g, BIG BIG INDIVIDUAL
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377277783

NEW) Ungrouped Ataxite, GRIFFITH, TX, 6.47g - Nice part slice.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377537618

GHUBARA, L5 Black Xenolithic, Oman, 622 g _ BIG BIG SLICE
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377564350

A Beautiful Slice of SEYMCHAN, Pal, 118 gram- VERY LAST BEAUTY TO  
AUCTION, Well worth over $1000.00+
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377576777

(New) WILBUR WASH, Az., L6, Slice, 79.79 gram LAST LAST BIG SLICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377565395

LAHOMA, Oklahoma, L5 Chondrite, 17.03 gram- ONLY SPECIMEN FOR AUCTION!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377541605

Extremely Rare-WABAR, Saudi Arabia, 4.89 g- There NEVER is going to be  
much of this rare iron available. Never has, Never will be...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377264215

Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-125.6g- Nice One!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377255345

Nice Specimen of NWA 482, Lunar, 152 mg- VERY NICE LUNAR SLICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377259588

Seldom Available PAMPA (c), Chile, L4, 1.18g, pretty rare these days...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377542896

Individual From HENBURY, Australia, 2.57g...take a look at this little  
one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377542326

Nice Specimen of NWA 869, L4-6, 140 gram- BIG BIG SLICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377538167

Seldom Available GRUVER, Texas, H4, 16.39g, Nice Large Slice
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377276428

Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-44.20g- Nice specimen-Cheap
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377273212

Outstanding Silicated-Campo Del Cielo -79.20g- A real Nice Specimen
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377259102

(NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 68.10g- Worth Having!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377258303

A very Rare EL3 From Africa, NWA 2965, 179.9g- This one is getting  
harder to fine...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377252662

SAYH AL UHAYMIR 001, L4/5, Oman, 11.89 gram-Nice Individual
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377272971

Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-48.60g-Nice Crust!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377273608

Seldom Available COVERT, Kansas, H5, 3.50 g - pretty slice
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377272439

Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-96.05g- Another Nice One
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377256287

(VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 0.63g..AKA Ash Creek -Nice slice.
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(New) CV3, NWA 5546 From Africa, 18.19 gram, A real Nice Slice...
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Rare NWA 2932, Mesosiderite, Nice! 3.50 gram - Nice Metal
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377271266

Chondrule Rich- NWA 5421, LL3.7, 5.74 gram- Must See Slice
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Outstanding Silicated Iron, NWA 5549, 4.81g- Nice One...
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-EADS, Colorado, H4 & Seldom Available, 9.26g - Seldom Available
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377273866

Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-157.5g - Another, Another Nice  
One- Nice Black Crust!
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(New) Martian Shergottite, NWA 4925, "Mars", Nice specimen
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(New) Olivine Diogenite-NWA 5480, 2.22 gram- This is a real nice slice!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377260779

Classic American H6, OZONA, Texas, 2.30 gram
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377541927

and of course many, many others, including some cool non-meteorite  
auctions, well worth a look!


As Always -Thanks and Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham






















From freequarks at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 15:03:36 2009
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:03:36 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Hard Copy Meteorite Catalogs
In-Reply-To: <d12.29a49b15.37cec2f8@aol.com>
References: <d12.29a49b15.37cec2f8@aol.com>
Message-ID: <822da19a0909011203h49e0e478g9b1446a901959ffe@mail.gmail.com>

Way back in the past, the three best dealer's catalogs as far as
photography goes (in my opinion) were Bethany Sciences (don't shoot
the messenger), Michael Casper's mailings, and New England
Meteoritical. They all produced color catalogs of specimens. Alan Lang
also had a full color presentation of his collection pieces that
arrived with his listings,

There were others who used images, but these stand out in my memory.

Best,

Martin



On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 12:33 PM, <GeoZay at aol.com> wrote:
> Mike...I'd recommend you find some photos that ?were taken by those who
> found West Meteorites in Texas earlier this year. Any ?meteorites that you will
> probably find will probably look similar to ?these...black and rounded etc.
> If you try to include a big variety of colors and ?looks etc, I think you
> might confuse those who will be doing the looking.
> GeoZay
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From cynapse at charter.net  Tue Sep  1 16:12:01 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:12:01 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
In-Reply-To: <CBF51F274E0148B5AAFD7F3F31A26955@ATARIENGINE2>
References: <283142EF87F54F01BD09726E965CBAA2@ET>
	<CBF51F274E0148B5AAFD7F3F31A26955@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <etvq95dfal5vom0liebd5u5nun44o2r7pb@4ax.com>

On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:25:00 -0500, you wrote:

>> the stereotypical Mexican bandito never actually said: "We don't need 
>> no stinking badges"?
>
>Of course he did, but this is the only entry on
>your list that doesn't have a name. 

Witness a Rare Webb Error:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinking_badges

Bonus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKIAn2UlAX4


From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Tue Sep  1 14:54:17 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 01 Sep 2009 18:54:17 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Hard Copy Meteorite Catalogs
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000003700003FB3@paulinet.de>

Hi Martin and List,

Let me add Bob Haag's numerous catalogues!

Cheers,

Bernd



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  1 15:17:16 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 12:17:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tucson Gem & Mineral Show POI
Message-ID: <730798.48106.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

As I mentioned a few days ago, I have created a POI (Point of Interest) file for users of GPS units that contains the locations of all 40+ shows in Tucson each February. It has been uploaded and is available on a website called POI Factory. It is an excellent website and nearly all of the POI files there are available for free. Additionally the forums there are excellent, the users friendly and help out with nearly every question within minutes. I highly recommend this site to anyone who uses a GPS receiver in their car.

Now to the file.

It can be found at:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/24678

Download it and install it on your GPS unit as you would any other poi file (search for instruction on the POI Factory website if you don't know how to do that yet).

Each of the shows are located in one of a few ways.

If it is a small show that has a slightly ambiguous location or address and I have not been to the show, I placed the poi in the middle of the street as close to the actual location as I could. (For meteorite shows, this isn't a issue. This is for shows like beads or folk art...)

For locations that are at hotels or resorts, I often made the poi at a common location near the center of the property, often the swimming pool.

At locations that have two or more shows but have a common parking area, like the Inn Suites, I placed the poi at a common location near the most used entrance or the parking area.

The only thing missing right now is the GemRide locations and parking lots, as these have not yet been finalized. I will add them in January once they become known.

One other location specifically of interest to the members of this list is Michael Blood's Meteorite Auction at the VFW Hall. I placed the poi for this location in the driveway of the hall to make it easier to find since the entrance to the building is hidden from view from Beverly Ave.

Members of this list may also be interested in another POI file I created some time ago called "Optical Valley - Tucson, Arizona"

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/17651

It contains pois for all professional telescopes at the four observatory sites around Tucson and includes information about each telescope. There are also locations in town and out fo town, like Flandrau, NOAO headquarters and various visitor centers. All the sites are now either open to the public (Kitt Peak) or provide public programs or tours [Mt. Lemmon Sky Center, Mt. Graham (LBT) & Mt. Hopkins (MMT)]



Remember, both of these files are meant to be used by a GPS receiver to direct you to the location you are looking for and not read on your computer or printed out. However, Google Earth will read these files, so you can locate and read the information for each site if you open these files in Google Earth.

If you don't have a GPSr for your car, just pick up the Show Guide that are available for free just about anywhere in town. If you haven't been to the Tucson Shows before, you should always grab a copy even if you do have a GPSr!


If you have any questions or have suggestions about locations for me to add, please contact me off list.


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


      


From John at Cabassi.net  Tue Sep  1 10:58:59 2009
From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 07:58:59 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
In-Reply-To: <642E11B4996142F98C6CA8C1AA73C0F5@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <000a01ca2b14$bd708a50$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2>

G'Day Everyone
It was also quoted in this book. Page 21
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13451630/Verma-Surendra-The-Mystery-of-the-Tun
guska-Fireball-133-MB

Cheers John
Oh forgot

Sent from my rotary phone, up a telegraph pole on the I-15 between
California and Nevada 

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Kuyken
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 7:37 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston


I remember reading about this when I did my Weston page a while back. I 
can't remember where I found all the info now but I think there were a
few 
sources I compiled together. In 1808 Jefferson allegedly wrote a
response to 
Daniel Salmon about the Weston fall. It's all here:

http://www.meteorites.com.au/favourite/december2007.html

Cheers,

Jeff



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Morgan" <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
To: "Peter Scherff" <peterscherff at rcn.com>; 
<meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson in 1807 commentedthathe 
didn't believe the Weston Meteorite fell out of the sk


> Jefferson's famous quote is researched in the book "The History of
> Meteorites and Key Meteorite Collections" (2006).  In summary, the
book 
> states that it is hearsay and "would not be acceptable in a court of
law". 
> Basically there is no truth to the matter; no documentation of him
ever 
> saying those words.
>
> Matt Morgan
> ------Original Message------
> From: Peter Scherff
> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson in 1807 commented 
> thathe
> didn't believe the Weston Meteorite fell out of the sk
> Sent: Sep 1, 2009 5:36 AM
>
> Hi,
> I have a friend who looked into this famous "quote" of Jefferson's, he

> was unable to find a contemporary source for it. Does anyone know of a

> source; letter, diary or other account written at the time that 
> Jefferson supposedly said it? I would love to be able to find it. 
> Until then I would hesitate to put words into Thomas Jefferson's 
> mouth.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of 
> Brian
> Cox
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:15 AM
> To: GeoZay at aol.com; Becky and Kirk; dave at fallingrocks.com
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson in 1807 commented that
he
> didn't believe the Weston Meteorite fell out of the sk
>
> Yes, you all got it right!!!!!!!!! APPLAUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Thomas Jefferson did comment in 1807 that he didn't believe that 
> rocks,
> aka
> "The Weston Meteorite" actually fell out of the sky!!!!
>
> What is the prize that is being offered for answering this trivia
> question?
>
> Free meteorites, ad space or ALL the ads you want to post in a week on

> the list!!!
>
> Wishing you all clear skies and all the meteorites your home can 
> store.
>
> Have a good one!!!!!
>
> Brian
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ----------------------
> Matt Morgan
> Mile High Meteorites
> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> P.O. Box 151293
> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Tue Sep  1 15:32:12 2009
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 12:32:12 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Help: Mystery 19th Cent. Meteorite Thin Section
Message-ID: <FBC9AA82157E46ACAB500E0FE455E23B@Bandli1>

I call upon the Met-List for some help:

http://historicmeteorites.com/HistoricMeteorites/Mystery-TS.html

Sorry, this is not a gimmick and no prizes are available. I would really
like some help identifying this one!

Kind regards,

Mike Bandli
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA #5765




From darryl at dof3.com  Tue Sep  1 15:35:20 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 15:35:20 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bolide?  Doggone?
In-Reply-To: <57478.10287.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <57478.10287.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <678929AF-A7A5-42C2-8682-C38766F33775@dof3.com>



Hi Richard,

I appreciate your thoughts and your analysis could very well be spot  
on---but low resolution and soft focus at infinity are not distortions  
of the sort to which you allude, and I think I'll hold fast to the  
notion of a "bolide by camera-phone" being able to evoke a sun dog.

I suppose in the end I just have a bit more faith in the report of a  
ball "speeding across the sky".....

....and of course I agree that embellished eyewitness accounts can be  
problematic (along with my misplaced faith)

  ;-)    Oh well.


And all best / Darryl




On Sep 1, 2009, at 2:25 PM, Richard Kowalski wrote:

>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
> --- On Tue, 9/1/09, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bolide?  Doggone?
>> To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 11:09 AM
>>
>> Hiya,
>>
>> If the description of the object's transit through the sky
>> is
>> accurate, I would have to disagree.
>
> I would too, but it's an embellishment to make his story interesting.
>
>> (As the resolution of the camera is weak, and focus
>> limited, a bolide
>> could readily blur into a sun dog-like appearance.)
>> /d
>>
>
> Nope, if that were true the entire image would show the distortions.
> If you look at the images on the wiki page, or google sun dogs and  
> click on images you'll see many examples that look exactly like this  
> one.
> It is an *extremely* common phenomena...
>
> Almost no one looks up any longer, so even the most common phenomena  
> are unknown to just about everyone. I highly recommend _The Nature  
> of Light and Colour in the Open Air_
>
> http://tinyurl.com/no2ej9
>
> It's a great book. I've witnessed nearly everything contained within  
> its pages.
>
> Richard
>
>
>



From tbear1 at cableone.net  Tue Sep  1 15:24:48 2009
From: tbear1 at cableone.net (Ted Bunch)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 12:24:48 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
In-Reply-To: <CBF51F274E0148B5AAFD7F3F31A26955@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <C6C2C310.DA84%tbear1@cableone.net>

Good job Sterling and correct. I have the Treasure--- movie in B & W and the
colorized version, that line was certainly given. Sagan said "billions" not
billions and billions, but the Doonesbury cartoon strip helped popularized
"billions and billions" and a couple of comedians stressed Sagan's
colloquial style of billyons and billyons.

Churchill was drunk on a daily basis - the equivalent of one to two pints.
FDR had an average of 8 martinis per day and Stalin never saw a sober day.
This was how the Allies won the war (?). Can you picture these 3 sitting
around at the Potsdam Conference trying to negotiate and then sitting
upright for that famous photo?

Ted Bunch


IMCA # 1110


On 9/1/09 11:25 AM, "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

>> the stereotypical Mexican bandito never actually said: "We don't need
>> no stinking badges"?
> 
> Of course he did, but this is the only entry on
> your list that doesn't have a name. He desrves
> to be mentioned by name. Alfonso Bedoya (1904-
> 1957), the great Mexican character actor and
> veteran of 77 movies, played the bandit who
> continually threatens the gold-hunters (Bogart,
> Tim Holt, and Walter Houston) in the 1948
> triple-Oscar-winner, "The Treasure of the Sierra
> Madre."  In one scene, he claims he and his men
> are  "Federales." Bogart asks to see his badge,
> and he replies, famously, "Badges? We doan
> neeed no steenkin' badges!" It's one of the
> great lines in movie history and -- you know
> The Biz -- credits are everything.
> 
> Oh, and Bogart DIDN'T say "Play it again, Sam!"
> He said, "Play it, Sam!" No "again."
> 
> Whoops!
> 
> 
> Sterling K. Webb
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 11:07 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
> 
> 
>> Oh great, what's next; Carl Sagan didn't actually say "billions and
>> billions"?  Bogey never said "Play it again, Sam", the stereotypical
>> Mexican bandito never actually said: "We don't need no stinking
>> badges"? Winston Churchill never said: "I may be drunk, Miss, but in
>> the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly."? (Never have
>> believed in that one, way too mysogenistic and mean).  And little
>> Timmy Martin never actually fell down a well (I think Lassie did
>> once). And on and on and on......
>> 
>> At least we have good genetic evidence that he knocked up Sally
>> Hemmings.
>> 
>> Phil Whitmer
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep  1 15:41:26 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:41:26 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
References: <3E062F3679374F899431A9CCB1EC7C11@ET>
Message-ID: <84692C060859466A969E63899EEC8F80@ATARIENGINE2>

Right, I was too lazy to go get the DVD and
actually check the lines. Went to the DVD
and you are right (at 1hr 7m into the movie).

When a thing becomes a stereotype or an icon
or a stock cultural reference, it acquires a life
of its own. It's true even if it isn't true; it never
dies and it never goes away.

I saw "Treasure" at a drive-in movie in McAllen,
Texas, when I was nine, my first drive-in movie
and the first time I saw Bogart. It made a big
impression on me, and I've probably seen it
5-6 times since. Still, stereotypes are powerful
mind-altering memes, it appears.


Sterling K. Webb
--------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:40 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston


> Sterling,
>
> Sorry but you're wrong, you're quoting the parody of the line from 
> Blazing Saddles.
> The actual quote is
> Dobbs: 'If you're the police where are your badges?'
> Gold Hat: 'Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I 
> don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!'
>
> I shouldn't have to explain that irony is a literary device where you 
> feign ignorance for comic effect.
>
> So while Sagan did say Billions and Billions in his book title, 
> Alfonso Bedoya never said: "We don't need no stinking badges".
>
> I should know, I've seen both movies,  dozens of times.
>
> Phil (Get a grip Dobsie!) Whitmer
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Tue Sep  1 15:44:20 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 01 Sep 2009 19:44:20 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Help: Mystery 19th Cent. Meteorite Thin Section
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000003500003FB8@paulinet.de>

A few ideas after brainstorming a bit

 ... what brain? :-)

Mike B. writes:

" Iowa has three official chondrites to its name prior to his passing.
Marion, 1847 (L6), Homestead, 1875 (L5) and Forest City, 1895 (H5)"

*If* it's Marion, you might find veins because Marion is described as having veins.

*If* it's Homestead, it should be brecciated and severely shocked (S4).

*If* it's Forest City, it should also show brecciation.

Hmm, Homestead and Forest City, ... both brecciated :-(

But: Measuring the diameters of the chondrules might help here as Forest City
chondrules (H5) should be smaller than Homestead chondrules (L5).

By the way, just in case your thin section should contain copper, ... Homestead
is described as containing copper.

Best wishes from
Germany,

Bernd



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Tue Sep  1 15:57:47 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 15:57:47 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thomas Jefferson & Weston
Message-ID: <6868321A63F74E9F9AAC0C828B412F7A@ET>

Ted:

These guys were lightweights compared to Ullysses S. Grant. He could drink 
them all under the table.

The full name of the Sagan book is: Billions and Billions: Thoughts on Life 
and Death at the Brink of the Millennium. Random House. ISBN 0-679-41160-7

Phil (Get a grip Dobsie!) Whitmer

I also love the crazy old man dance scene with Walter Huston.  (Not to be 
confused with the director John Huston, who makes a cameo appearance (ala Al 
Hitchcock) as the American hit up for a handout by Dobsie.)


Churchill was drunk on a daily basis - the equivalent of one to two pints.
FDR had an average of 8 martinis per day and Stalin never saw a sober day.
This was how the Allies won the war (?). Can you picture these 3 sitting
around at the Potsdam Conference trying to negotiate and then sitting
upright for that famous photo?

Ted Bunch


IMCA # 1110



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Tue Sep  1 16:07:28 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:07:28 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Skipper's Dad Co-Discovers a Comet!
Message-ID: <712A657C97454B609C9B6A4401DBFAF4@ET>

While we're on the off topic of old movies, did anyone realize that Alan 
Hale,  the Skipper's  (Alan Hale Jr.), dad, was the co-discoverer of the 
most widely observed comet of the 20th Century?

Phil (Think IRONY, people!) Whitmer 



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  1 16:21:03 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:21:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bolide?  Doggone?
Message-ID: <62300.77764.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

OK Darryl,

fine with me.

The "Distortion" I speak of is the visible spectrum in the "flare of the bolide" or the body of the sundog. If it is a bolide, this would have to be distortion known as chromatic abberation (CA) and if the lens was that poor to show that much CA, it would be clearly visible in other parts of the image too. 

However in this case, it is restricted to the "flare" and the spectrum is correct for a Sun dog (red towards the Sun) and the tail matches a Perhelic arc

See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parhelic_circle

(When they are very strong, as in the images on that page, the arc can be seen completely encircling the sky at the same elevation of the Sun. When they are weak, they only form a short tail for the dog.

One more thing about the image itself, a bolide this bright in the daytime would leave an obvious smoke trail behind the ionization, one that wouldn't fade away as it does in this image. This photo matches a weak Parhelic arc but not a bolide plasma -> smoke trail.

The last few things I'll say about this I'll say as a photographer instead of as an astronomer.

One of my photographic subjects are birds. I know how often I miss images because though I'm ready to make images with my camera which is on and ready to go, because I'm not fast enough and the camera isn't up to my eye. And sometimes, even when it is!

I have to question his ability of catching a bolide with a cell phone camera for a number of reasons. He needed to see the object, ID it as strange, grab his phone, turn on the camera and let it start, then point it and shoot. Of course he may have been taking other images with the camera on his phone, so his response would have been quicker, but that not what he claims in the article.

However, and probably the best evidence refuting his claim, there is no visible blur to the objects on the ground, so he probably had time to compose the shot. Unlikely in such a rapidly eveolving event as a daytime bolide.

Nearly every cell camera can shoot video too. If he had presence of mind to get a shot with his cell in the first place, why not get video of the event instead of a still?

Cheers

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:

> From: Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bolide?? Doggone?
> To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 12:35 PM
> 
> 
> Hi Richard,
> 
> I appreciate your thoughts and your analysis could very
> well be spot on---but low resolution and soft focus at
> infinity are not distortions of the sort to which you
> allude, and I think I'll hold fast to the notion of a
> "bolide by camera-phone" being able to evoke a sun dog.
> 
> I suppose in the end I just have a bit more faith in the
> report of a ball "speeding across the sky".....
> 
> ....and of course I agree that embellished eyewitness
> accounts can be problematic (along with my misplaced faith)
> 
>? ;-)? ? Oh well.
> 
> 
> And all best / Darryl



      


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Sep  1 16:24:30 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:24:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dawn Journal - August 30, 2009
Message-ID: <200909012024.n81KOUVa024781@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal_8_30_09.asp

Dawn Journal
Dr. Marc Rayman
August 30, 2009
 
Dear Indawnmitables,
 
The Dawn mission remains on course as the spacecraft continues to thrust
with its ion propulsion system, patiently, persistently, and gently
changing its orbit to keep its appointment with protoplanet Vesta in two
years. Meanwhile, closer to mission control and in stark contrast, brave
firefighters work hard to protect JPL and the nearby homes of many of
its employees and others in the community.
 
The probe has continued in "quiet cruise" since the last log. During this 
month, engineers did give the robot a few extra tasks to ensure it remains 
healthy, but these were routine. When each such assignment was conducted 
the first time or two that Dawn was in space, they were treated as special 
activities, with even greater diligence than is normally applied to the 
unforgiving and complex undertaking of flying a spacecraft far from Earth. 
Now however, the commands for these activities are stored onboard well ahead
of time along with the routine commands for thrusting, communicating
with Earth, and carrying out all the other functions the spacecraft
normally conducts without the mission control team devoting extra attention.
 
Included in the maintenance procedures were instructions to perform a
sequence of movements of the mechanism that points ion thruster #1, to
power off reaction wheel #2 and return #1 to service, and to operate the
gyroscopes for about 4 days. For readers who do not have their copies of
the Dawn operations manuals handy, some information about these 3 kinds
of operations was provided in a previous log.
 
Another event that is now considered routine occurred on August 15. For
the second time this year, a particle
of space radiation struck a particularly sensitive electrical component
on the spacecraft, depositing enough energy to interfere with the
operation of a circuit. When this happened in January 2008,
it caused Dawn to enter safe mode, interrupting its other activities. 
Thanks to software the team transmitted to the ship later that year,
now the interplanetary explorer is immune to strikes in that formerly
vulnerable location.
 
As Dawn continues its long (in space and in time) solar system journey
to match orbits with Vesta and later with Ceres, both of which reside
farther from the Sun than the probe has yet traveled, some readers may
note a surprising trend in the statistics for the mission. The famously
unimaginative ending of each of these logs reveals that Dawn's distance
from Earth has been diminishing since November 2008. Indeed, the probe's
maximum separation from its planet of origin occurred on November 10.
Today, it is as far from Earth as it was on June 2, 2008. By January 2010, 
it will be as close as it was in March 2008. Is this progress?
 
Earth and Dawn, each following its own path, are both in orbit around
the Sun. As grateful residents of the planet know, their world's orbit
doesn't change very much. The planet keeps following the same nearly
circular path around the Sun year after year after year. Today Earth is
about 1.01 astronomical units (AU) from the
Sun, and it never strays very far from its average distance of 1.00 AU.
As Dawn has traveled independently of Earth, thanks to the push from its
Delta rocket, its orbit has been farther
from the Sun than Earth's. The gradual effect of ion thrusting and the
much more abrupt boost from Mars have caused that orbit to change
considerably since then. To enter orbit around Vesta, Dawn will have to
match the giant asteroid's orbit around the Sun, ranging from 2.15 AU to
2.57 AU. Today, Dawn is 1.53 AU from the Sun and headed outward.
 
As we saw a year ago (that is, one
Earth-orbit-around-the-Sun ago), objects at different orbital distances
travel at different speeds. The probe, orbiting the Sun at a greater
range than Earth, travels more slowly, because the Sun's gravitational
attraction diminishes with distance. So as Dawn heads slowly for Vesta,
gradually spiraling away from the Sun, and Earth speeds around more
quickly in its orbit, sometimes our planet moves closer to the
spacecraft and sometimes it moves farther away.
 
In a continuing effort to offset the extraordinary cost of these logs
with the handsome revenue from subtle product placements, we can refer
to still another in the apparently endless line of Dawn clocks (many of
which have been described in recent logs and all of which are available
in the Dawn gift shop on your planet). On this clock, the minute hand is
shorter than the hour hand. The motion of the former represents Earth,
traveling closer to the Sun (at the clock's center) and more quickly.
Dawn is at the tip of the hour hand, moving more slowly in its larger
orbit. (We'll ignore for now that the hour hand should be growing in
length, as the spacecraft recedes from the Sun.) Some of the time (such
as between noon and about 12:30), the distance between the ends of the
hands increases, but then the situation reverses; the faster minute hand
begins moving closer and closer to the hour hand as the time approaches
about 1:05.
 
Earth and Dawn are exhibiting the same repetitive behavior, albeit more
complicated because of Dawn's ever-changing orbital speed and distance
from the Sun. They will continue to draw closer until January, when
Earth, coming from behind, passes Dawn and moves on ahead. The explorer
will not need to take note however, as its sights are set on the
asteroid belt.
 
So for readers tracking the distances reported in each log, don't
despair. The continuously declining separation between Earth and its
celestial envoy is a reflection of the elegant mechanics of the cosmos
and not the result of inattentive engineers setting the spacecraft on
the wrong path.
 
Next month, as Earth and the spacecraft continue their separate solar
system dances, together with the Sun they will briefly make an
attractive arrangement. On September 18, Dawn will be just as far from
the Sun as it is from Earth, at 1.56 AU from each. Earth and the Sun
will be 1.00 AU apart. The trio formed a very similar pleasing pattern
last year. A triangle such as this, with two
sides of equal length, is usually called "isosceles."
 
Although there is nothing inherently significant for the mission about
this alignment, we can use one more clock example to illustrate this
isosceles triangle. In this case, we put Dawn at the center and Earth at
the 12. (This clock may not be as useful for telling time as some of the
others that are available, but it would still make a great gift.) The
Sun would be next to the sixth little tick mark, where the minute hand
would point at about 6 minutes and 15 seconds after the hour. (Note that
this depiction of the geometry illustrates the angles and the relative
separations of Dawn, Earth, and the Sun; hence, the clock may be any
size. Several sizes are available in the gift shop and we helpfully
recommend the most expensive one.)
 
Not only is Dawn on course for the asteroid belt, on course for
returning new and exciting discoveries from its enigmatic destinations,
it is on a new and better course than it had been. According to inside
sources, the vast team of writers specifically assigned to create the
next log is already planning to explain what has changed and why. Just
as all loyal readers, your correspondent is hoping for an interesting
description of this improvement in the mission.
 
Dawn is 250 million kilometers (156 million miles) from Earth, or 620
times as far as the moon and 1.66 times as far as the Sun. Radio
signals, traveling at the universal limit of the speed of light, take 28
minutes to make the round trip.
		



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Sep  1 16:17:37 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:17:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: August 24-28, 2009
Message-ID: <200909012017.n81KHbXO023101@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
August 24-28, 2009

o Dunes (Released 24 August 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090824a

o Promethei Planum (Released 25 August 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090825a

o Dunes in IR (Released 26 August 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090826a

o Sand Sheet in IR (Released 27 August 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090827a

o Capri Chasma (Released 28 August 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090828a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 





From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Tue Sep  1 16:35:51 2009
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 13:35:51 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Help: Mystery 19th Cent. Meteorite Thin Section
In-Reply-To: <DIIE.0000003500003FB8@paulinet.de>
References: <DIIE.0000003500003FB8@paulinet.de>
Message-ID: <8A86E774CEA64D57BBE09C2D744238A2@Bandli1>

Thanks for the storm of ideas, Bernd. It looks like this one will take some
more time and expertise. I wonder if John Kashuba might shed some light on
(through) this TS? What are some other ideas for the notations on the bottom
label? 'Ct' could be an old abbreviation for county, which would point to
Homestead, though it is typically 'Co.' It would seem odd to abbreviate a
short word like city. Perhaps the '61' and 1861 are a coincidence and the 61
is simply the number assigned to that slide.

Fun stuff!

Thanks,

Mike Bandli
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA #5765

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:44 PM
To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Help: Mystery 19th Cent. Meteorite Thin Section

A few ideas after brainstorming a bit

 ... what brain? :-)

Mike B. writes:

" Iowa has three official chondrites to its name prior to his passing.
Marion, 1847 (L6), Homestead, 1875 (L5) and Forest City, 1895 (H5)"

*If* it's Marion, you might find veins because Marion is described as having
veins.

*If* it's Homestead, it should be brecciated and severely shocked (S4).

*If* it's Forest City, it should also show brecciation.

Hmm, Homestead and Forest City, ... both brecciated :-(

But: Measuring the diameters of the chondrules might help here as Forest
City
chondrules (H5) should be smaller than Homestead chondrules (L5).

By the way, just in case your thin section should contain copper, ...
Homestead
is described as containing copper.

Best wishes from
Germany,

Bernd

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From cynapse at charter.net  Tue Sep  1 17:54:48 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 16:54:48 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Skipper's Dad Co-Discovers a Comet!
In-Reply-To: <712A657C97454B609C9B6A4401DBFAF4@ET>
References: <712A657C97454B609C9B6A4401DBFAF4@ET>
Message-ID: <hp5r95hv4p3u0cfl4mi4mn6ao8rj42uifq@4ax.com>

On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:07:28 -0400, you wrote:

>While we're on the off topic of old movies, did anyone realize that Alan 
>Hale,  the Skipper's  (Alan Hale Jr.), dad, was the co-discoverer of the 
>most widely observed comet of the 20th Century?
>
>Phil (Think IRONY, people!) Whitmer 

And (possibly) the OTHER discoverer of that comet gave up on this list just a
couple of days ago!

http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2009-August/055920.html

(Unless it was someone else named "Thomas Bopp".)


From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu  Tue Sep  1 17:00:31 2009
From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 14:00:31 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Skipper's Dad Co-Discovers a Comet!
In-Reply-To: <hp5r95hv4p3u0cfl4mi4mn6ao8rj42uifq@4ax.com>
References: <712A657C97454B609C9B6A4401DBFAF4@ET>
	<hp5r95hv4p3u0cfl4mi4mn6ao8rj42uifq@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <14594d96d6a89f89d8d26af62a5d6d12.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>

What is truely amazing that Alan Hale co-discovered Hale-Bopp in 1995
(fact), while Alan Hale, Sr. died in 1950 and Alan Hale, Jr. died in 1990.

Wow! I do not think that they were related.

Larry

PS yes, I do think that the Thomas Bopp who left the list was the real
Bopp of Hale-Bopp. :(

> On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:07:28 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>While we're on the off topic of old movies, did anyone realize that Alan
>>Hale,  the Skipper's  (Alan Hale Jr.), dad, was the co-discoverer of the
>>most widely observed comet of the 20th Century?
>>
>>Phil (Think IRONY, people!) Whitmer
>
> And (possibly) the OTHER discoverer of that comet gave up on this list
> just a
> couple of days ago!
>
> http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2009-August/055920.html
>
> (Unless it was someone else named "Thomas Bopp".)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




From GeoZay at aol.com  Tue Sep  1 17:19:23 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 17:19:23 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Skipper's Dad Co-Discovers a Comet!
Message-ID: <c8d.4ef45c6c.37cee9db@aol.com>

>>While we're on the off topic of old  movies, did anyone realize that Alan 
Hale,  the Skipper's  (Alan  Hale Jr.), dad, was the co-discoverer of the 
most widely observed comet of  the 20th Century?<<
I didn't know there was a connection. Back around  1992, 3 or 4, I observed 
the Quadrantid meteor shower with Alan Hale in  Descanso, CA.. There were 
three of us...Bob Lunsford, Alan Hale and myself. Of  course this was all 
before he co discovered comet Hale/Bopp. He got bored with  the meteor 
observing and broke out one of his scopes and started looking at the  stars and 
whatever he could find. The Quadrantids was a good show that year.  Later when 
he co-discovered the comet, I thought it would get me an autographed  photo 
of the comet (I took the photo)...but it didn't. :O)
George Zay  

**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd
=JulystepsfooterNO115)


From mccartney at blackbearddata.com  Tue Sep  1 17:17:48 2009
From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 16:17:48 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Skipper's Dad Co-Discovers a Comet!
Message-ID: <48ab96fb84f1490bae53128cf7bce20b@ucv1.vhostdns.com>

When I briefly met Alan Hale, Jr aka The Skipper, the only observing he wanted to do was women.  

I don't think he could tell a planet from a star, but he sure liked watching the stellar objects of the female form divine.

-mt

-------- Original Message --------
> From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu
> Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 4:01 PM
> To: cynapse at charter.net
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Skipper's Dad Co-Discovers a Comet!
> 
> What is truely amazing that Alan Hale co-discovered Hale-Bopp in 1995
> (fact), while Alan Hale, Sr. died in 1950 and Alan Hale, Jr. died in 1990.
> 
> Wow! I do not think that they were related.
> 
> Larry
> 
> PS yes, I do think that the Thomas Bopp who left the list was the real
> Bopp of Hale-Bopp. :(
> 
> >




From mary.kashuba at verizon.net  Tue Sep  1 18:10:52 2009
From: mary.kashuba at verizon.net (Kashuba)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:10:52 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Help: Mystery 19th Cent. Meteorite Thin Section
In-Reply-To: <8A86E774CEA64D57BBE09C2D744238A2@Bandli1>
References: <DIIE.0000003500003FB8@paulinet.de>
	<8A86E774CEA64D57BBE09C2D744238A2@Bandli1>
Message-ID: <006001ca2b51$1279d4c0$376d7e40$@kashuba@verizon.net>

Mike, Bernd, List,

I don't know how much light I can shed on the matter.  I understand it takes
at least 750 watts. 

As usual Bernd has done some nicely directed research that might help key
this one out.  If Tom still has the slide he might spin it in his 'scope to
get a feel for how shocked it is.  Are those splotchy shadows in some of his
views evidence of mosaicism?  

Another tack would be to get thin sections of the pairing suspects for
comparison.  You might find common features like iron staining (or not),
broken chondrules and mineral grains (or not), odd clasts of one type or
another (or not) etc.  I don't have any of the three mentioned but Anne
Black might find a couple of them in the large collection she just received.
It probably would not be definitive, but it WOULD be fun and that's what
this is about!

Regards,

- John

John Kashuba
Ontario, California

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Bandli
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:36 PM
To: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Help: Mystery 19th Cent. Meteorite Thin
Section

Thanks for the storm of ideas, Bernd. It looks like this one will take some
more time and expertise. I wonder if John Kashuba might shed some light on
(through) this TS? What are some other ideas for the notations on the bottom
label? 'Ct' could be an old abbreviation for county, which would point to
Homestead, though it is typically 'Co.' It would seem odd to abbreviate a
short word like city. Perhaps the '61' and 1861 are a coincidence and the 61
is simply the number assigned to that slide.

Fun stuff!

Thanks,

Mike Bandli
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA #5765

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:44 PM
To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Help: Mystery 19th Cent. Meteorite Thin Section

A few ideas after brainstorming a bit

 ... what brain? :-)

Mike B. writes:

" Iowa has three official chondrites to its name prior to his passing.
Marion, 1847 (L6), Homestead, 1875 (L5) and Forest City, 1895 (H5)"

*If* it's Marion, you might find veins because Marion is described as having
veins.

*If* it's Homestead, it should be brecciated and severely shocked (S4).

*If* it's Forest City, it should also show brecciation.

Hmm, Homestead and Forest City, ... both brecciated :-(

But: Measuring the diameters of the chondrules might help here as Forest
City
chondrules (H5) should be smaller than Homestead chondrules (L5).

By the way, just in case your thin section should contain copper, ...
Homestead
is described as containing copper.

Best wishes from
Germany,

Bernd

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From gmhupe at htn.net  Tue Sep  1 19:55:57 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 19:55:57 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rare Achondrite Auctions Ending Wed. - AD
Message-ID: <E123C3A7DBF74C8790C1E4A1CB3A1B69@Gregor>

Dear List Members,

I have 34 rare achondrite auctions ending tomorrow (Wednesday, Sept. 2nd), 
and a good majority are Lunar, Martian, Brachinite, Lodranite and other 
goodies. Most are started at just 99 cents, and a couple are currently still 
that low! Great deals will be had by checking out my items under seller 
name, NaturesVault.

Another interesting item that will end along with the above mentioned 
auctions is a complete Eucrite slice with a Natural Hole. This is the first 
item listed and is NWA 3152.

All of these can been seen by clicking here: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

Thank you for checking these out, and if you are bidding, I hope you win 
what you are after!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault






From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Tue Sep  1 20:26:30 2009
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 20:26:30 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alan Hale Jr. Related Off Topic Who's Hotter,
	Mary Ann Or Ginger?
Message-ID: <F34E3522273D4299B293921B04E22C0A@whitmerjbqtim1>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guys,

Relax, it was a lame attempt at humor. I thought the word IRONY in capital 
letters would give it away.  I was poking fun at the irony of people not 
realizing I was attempting humor when I intentionally repeated some common 
misquotes.
Hmmm,  I can see now why people sometimes think I'm mentally challenged.

Just reading about the Hale-Bopp comet when a funny picture popped into my 
mind of the Skipper's dad (who I sometimes can't tell from the actual 
Skipper) squinting into a telescope, spotting an unknown deep space object, 
getting out his star charts, confirming it was an unknown comet, then 
immediately calling the appropriate governing body and getting it named 
after himself.  OK, I guess you had to have been there and it maybe would be 
funnier if it was Alan Hale Jr. himself.  I'm sure Alan Hale the comet guy 
never drew this comparison.

So, if I say something really stupid, just assume it's a joke!!!




While we're on the off topic of old movies, did anyone realize that Alan
Hale, the Skipper's (Alan Hale Jr.), dad, was the co-discoverer of the
most widely observed comet of the 20th Century?

Phil (Think IRONY, people!) Whitmer




From Impactika at aol.com  Tue Sep  1 21:10:37 2009
From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 21:10:37 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Help: Mystery 19th Cent. Meteorite Thin Section
Message-ID: <c10.661f2930.37cf200d@aol.com>

Good question, John.

I checked, and you are in luck, I have all three.
Well.........it's not really luck, this collection is so huge, there is 
practically everything in there.
Much more about it when I am done sorting and cataloguing all of it.

Now, John, should I mail those three TS to you?  If Mike would mail his 
historical TS to you, you will be able to compare them. 

And it might take more than 750 watts with all the smoke you are getting 
right now.

Anne M. Black
http://www.impactika.com/
IMPACTIKA at aol.com
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
http://www.imca.cc/


In a message dated 9/1/2009 4:11:51 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
mary.kashuba at verizon.net writes:
Mike, Bernd, List,

I don't know how much light I can shed on the matter.  I understand it takes
at least 750 watts. 

As usual Bernd has done some nicely directed research that might help key
this one out.  If Tom still has the slide he might spin it in his 'scope to
get a feel for how shocked it is.  Are those splotchy shadows in some of his
views evidence of mosaicism?  

Another tack would be to get thin sections of the pairing suspects for
comparison.  You might find common features like iron staining (or not),
broken chondrules and mineral grains (or not), odd clasts of one type or
another (or not) etc.  I don't have any of the three mentioned but Anne
Black might find a couple of them in the large collection she just received.
It probably would not be definitive, but it WOULD be fun and that's what
this is about!

Regards,

- John

John Kashuba
Ontario, California

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Bandli
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:36 PM
To: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Help: Mystery 19th Cent. Meteorite Thin
Section

Thanks for the storm of ideas, Bernd. It looks like this one will take some
more time and expertise. I wonder if John Kashuba might shed some light on
(through) this TS? What are some other ideas for the notations on the bottom
label? 'Ct' could be an old abbreviation for county, which would point to
Homestead, though it is typically 'Co.' It would seem odd to abbreviate a
short word like city. Perhaps the '61' and 1861 are a coincidence and the 61
is simply the number assigned to that slide.

Fun stuff!

Thanks,

Mike Bandli
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA #5765

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:44 PM
To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Help: Mystery 19th Cent. Meteorite Thin Section

A few ideas after brainstorming a bit

... what brain? :-)

Mike B. writes:

" Iowa has three official chondrites to its name prior to his passing.
Marion, 1847 (L6), Homestead, 1875 (L5) and Forest City, 1895 (H5)"

*If* it's Marion, you might find veins because Marion is described as having
veins.

*If* it's Homestead, it should be brecciated and severely shocked (S4).

*If* it's Forest City, it should also show brecciation.

Hmm, Homestead and Forest City, ... both brecciated :-(

But: Measuring the diameters of the chondrules might help here as Forest
City
chondrules (H5) should be smaller than Homestead chondrules (L5).

By the way, just in case your thin section should contain copper, ...
Homestead
is described as containing copper.

Best wishes from
Germany,

Bernd


From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Tue Sep  1 21:47:51 2009
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 18:47:51 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Another oldie TS
Message-ID: <F5EE7DB9946E43E580AF966325C830A7@Bandli1>

Since we're on the topic, here's one that does not require detective work:

http://historicmeteorites.com/HistoricMeteorites/D-Dhurmsala.html

Cheers,

Mike Bandli
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA #5765




From mary.kashuba at verizon.net  Tue Sep  1 21:54:55 2009
From: mary.kashuba at verizon.net (Kashuba)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 18:54:55 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Help: Mystery 19th Cent. Meteorite Thin Section
In-Reply-To: <c10.661f2930.37cf200d@aol.com>
References: <c10.661f2930.37cf200d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <007201ca2b70$5f394240$1dabc6c0$@kashuba@verizon.net>

Anne,

I say we get out of the smoke and heat and all go to Mikes place in
Washington.

- John

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
Impactika at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 6:11 PM
To: mary.kashuba at verizon.net; fuzzfoot at comcast.net; bernd.pauli at paulinet.de;
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Help: Mystery 19th Cent. Meteorite Thin
Section

Good question, John.

I checked, and you are in luck, I have all three.
Well.........it's not really luck, this collection is so huge, there is 
practically everything in there.
Much more about it when I am done sorting and cataloguing all of it.

Now, John, should I mail those three TS to you?  If Mike would mail his 
historical TS to you, you will be able to compare them. 

And it might take more than 750 watts with all the smoke you are getting 
right now.

Anne M. Black
http://www.impactika.com/
IMPACTIKA at aol.com
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
http://www.imca.cc/


In a message dated 9/1/2009 4:11:51 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
mary.kashuba at verizon.net writes:
Mike, Bernd, List,

I don't know how much light I can shed on the matter.  I understand it takes
at least 750 watts. 

As usual Bernd has done some nicely directed research that might help key
this one out.  If Tom still has the slide he might spin it in his 'scope to
get a feel for how shocked it is.  Are those splotchy shadows in some of his
views evidence of mosaicism?  

Another tack would be to get thin sections of the pairing suspects for
comparison.  You might find common features like iron staining (or not),
broken chondrules and mineral grains (or not), odd clasts of one type or
another (or not) etc.  I don't have any of the three mentioned but Anne
Black might find a couple of them in the large collection she just received.
It probably would not be definitive, but it WOULD be fun and that's what
this is about!

Regards,

- John

John Kashuba
Ontario, California

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Bandli
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 1:36 PM
To: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de; Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Help: Mystery 19th Cent. Meteorite Thin
Section

Thanks for the storm of ideas, Bernd. It looks like this one will take some
more time and expertise. I wonder if John Kashuba might shed some light on
(through) this TS? What are some other ideas for the notations on the bottom
label? 'Ct' could be an old abbreviation for county, which would point to
Homestead, though it is typically 'Co.' It would seem odd to abbreviate a
short word like city. Perhaps the '61' and 1861 are a coincidence and the 61
is simply the number assigned to that slide.

Fun stuff!

Thanks,

Mike Bandli
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA #5765

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 12:44 PM
To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Help: Mystery 19th Cent. Meteorite Thin Section

A few ideas after brainstorming a bit

... what brain? :-)

Mike B. writes:

" Iowa has three official chondrites to its name prior to his passing.
Marion, 1847 (L6), Homestead, 1875 (L5) and Forest City, 1895 (H5)"

*If* it's Marion, you might find veins because Marion is described as having
veins.

*If* it's Homestead, it should be brecciated and severely shocked (S4).

*If* it's Forest City, it should also show brecciation.

Hmm, Homestead and Forest City, ... both brecciated :-(

But: Measuring the diameters of the chondrules might help here as Forest
City
chondrules (H5) should be smaller than Homestead chondrules (L5).

By the way, just in case your thin section should contain copper, ...
Homestead
is described as containing copper.

Best wishes from
Germany,

Bernd
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  1 22:26:15 2009
From: skyrockmeteorites at yahoo.com (Joe Kerchner)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 19:26:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bolide?
In-Reply-To: <875034.56129.qm@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <875034.56129.qm@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <542210.51464.qm@web43403.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

The reason that I agree with richard on this one is because the guy who took it said it only laste a couple seconds. he then said he pulled the phone out of his pocket, he then would have had to activate the camera application, the aim, shhot and get a photo with the object almost in the center of the photo whil it is moving very very very fast, I just dont believe the story.
Best,
Joe K
http://skyrockcafe.com
http://illinoismeteorites.com



----- Original Message ----
From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
To: meteoritelist <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; cynapse at charter.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 12:41:18 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bolide?

Nope, as Aaron from Utah states in the comments, it's a Sun dog.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_dog

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Tue, 9/1/09, Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net> wrote:

> From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Bolide?
> To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 11:45 AM
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1210447/Father-snaps-meteor-camera-phone-speeds-sky.html
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



      


From grf2 at comcast.net  Tue Sep  1 22:58:13 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:58:13 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien contact predicted
References: <d32.5e94446a.37cdb9d1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <056B7273F29F46D3B7E9471B03811B37@ASUS>

Thomas Jefferson.

--------------------------------------------------
From: <GeoZay at aol.com>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:42 PM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien contact predicted

>>>"I'd rather believe that a Yankee  professor would lie than that rocks 
> fall from the sky."<<
> 
> Wasn't it  former president Andrew Jackson that said this? 
> GeoZay  
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Wed Sep  2 00:01:17 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 00:01:17 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 2,
	2009
Message-ID: <d08.60918785.37cf480d@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_2_2009.html

---  



From pshugar at clearwire.net  Wed Sep  2 00:00:33 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 23:00:33 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re famous words
Message-ID: <523C9E5B7BC84865A7BBA574CC29DBFA@laptop>

What a revoltin' development this is!
See if anyone remembers who said that one.
Everyone saying how they liked
"My First Meteorite Presentation" and I have to see it
from a scan BECAUSE MY COPY STILL IS NOT HERE.
What a revoltin' development this is!
One of these days Meteorite Magazine, one of these days,
pow right in the kisser! I've looked over, under, behind, inside, and just 
about everywhere else, and still no magazine. Heck, there's just a big ol 
empty mailbox with nuttin' in it.
Not even a Bill. Of course I did not expect any bills as I told my mail
carrier that my name was not William and I didn't want any Bills.
I get them anyway, just not today.
Ok, I'll git back off the soap box and back into hiding now.
Pete IMCA 1733 



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 00:29:44 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 00:29:44 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : Faceted Czech Moldavite Stones - Ready for
	jewelry and Meteorite Label Lot
Message-ID: <e51421550909012129v54b865fgeed3836b2db2a5a3@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List!

I acquired some Czech Moldavite gemstones and after keeping some (my
wife has her eye on them), I had five to sell.  One is already sold.

I now have two Oval cuts and two Pear cut Moldavite gemstones.  The
Ovals are .6 carat and 1.22 carats.  The Pears are .73 carat and .80
carat.

Photos can be seen on my website here -

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126516/Brilliant-Green-Czech-Moldavite-Faceted-Gemstone--Oval-Cuts_968838.html

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126516/Brilliant-Green-Czech-Moldavite-Faceted-Gemstone--Pear-Cuts_968828.html

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126516/Brilliant-Green-Czech-Moldavite-Faceted-Gemstone--12-carat_968844.html

----

I also have a mixed lot of 11 metal labels from MeteoriteLabels.com -

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126516/Lot-of-11-Metal-Display-Labels-from-MeteoriteLabelscom_966374.html

Don't forget, List members get a 25% discount by using the coupon code
- "metlist" ....... :)

Thanks for looking and clear skies!

MikeG

PS - I am also getting some Neolithic period arrowheads (Mauritania)
and I will have a limited number available.  Contact me offlist if
interested.

-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From meteoritics at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 01:23:57 2009
From: meteoritics at gmail.com (Bill Hall)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:23:57 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Something new....
Message-ID: <883a36d30909012223t3dfc3156n228ba9445ff32a63@mail.gmail.com>

I have a slice I will try to etch. I also live in Oregon, and will try
and collect some more of this material.


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  2 06:02:39 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 03:02:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Lights up Michigan Sky 1SEP09
Message-ID: <102621.92448.qm@web53112.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2009/09/meteormeteorite-news-2sep09.html


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  2 07:49:39 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 04:49:39 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Famous words
Message-ID: <COL108-W9E4404057AF3029A7D1939BF00@phx.gbl>



Sounds like Jackie Gleason.

Carl, Flintstone Fan


Pete wrote:

>What a revoltin' development this is!
See if anyone remembers who said that one.
Everyone saying how they liked
"My First Meteorite Presentation" and I have to see it
from a scan BECAUSE MY COPY STILL IS NOT HERE.
What a revoltin' development this is!
One of these days Meteorite Magazine, one of these days,
pow right in the kisser!... 


_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1

From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  2 09:09:47 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 06:09:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien life topic
Message-ID: <158584.87881.qm@web46415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Here is some interesting reading.

"GLycine in Wild 2 comet dust provides fresh evidence of life beyond earth"
Australian Associated Press | AFP

The discovery ... strengthens the argument that life in the universe may be common rather than rare.

Astrobiologist Carl Pilcher

Scientists have uncovered fresh evidence that life could exist beyond Earth, with research published on Tuesday showing that comet dust contained traces of a compound vital to human existence.

Researchers probing dust and gas collected from the Wild 2 comet by NASA's Stardust spacecraft in 2004 found traces of the amino acid glycine, lending credence to idea that there is life elsewhere in the universe.

"The discovery of glycine in a comet supports the idea that the fundamental building blocks of life are prevalent in space, and strengthens the argument that life in the universe may be common rather than rare," said Carl Pilcher, one of the space agency's top astrobiologists.

Jamie Elsila, lead author of the report, which was published in the journal Meteoritics and Planetary Science, said the findings also support the idea that the material elements of human life may have come from space.

"Our discovery supports the theory that some of life's ingredients formed in space and were delivered to Earth long ago by meteorite and comet impacts," she said.

The group's final findings confirm suspicions that the amino acid -- which creates the proteins that form the building blocks of life -- were not simply earth-sourced contamination.

"We discovered that the Stardust-returned glycine has an extraterrestrial carbon isotope signature, indicating that it originated on the comet," said Elsila.

Twenty different amino acids are arranged to build the millions of different proteins that make up everything from hair to enzymes, NASA said.


http://livenews.com.au/life/glycine-in-wild-2-comet-dust-provides-fresh-evidence-of-life-beyond-earth/2009/8/19/216679

Proof?
who knows. 
Hope everyone is doing good today!

Greg C.


      


From bandk at chorus.net  Wed Sep  2 09:44:37 2009
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 08:44:37 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien life topic
References: <158584.87881.qm@web46415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <83EE10D801F44DB5936D32BE2D05524F@owner55652f88b>

OK Phil & others----here is some of the PROOF that you wanted!!
Sounds pretty legit to me! Read the whole thing! Hmmmmm-----Sounds like my 
post last week about amino acids coming from Comet & Meteorite impacts 
bringing life to Earth from deep Space!
Time to eat some crow----eh??
Kirk.......:-)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Catterton" <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:09 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien life topic


> Here is some interesting reading.
>
> "GLycine in Wild 2 comet dust provides fresh evidence of life beyond 
> earth"
> Australian Associated Press | AFP
>
> The discovery ... strengthens the argument that life in the universe may 
> be common rather than rare.
>
> Astrobiologist Carl Pilcher
>
> Scientists have uncovered fresh evidence that life could exist beyond 
> Earth, with research published on Tuesday showing that comet dust 
> contained traces of a compound vital to human existence.
>
> Researchers probing dust and gas collected from the Wild 2 comet by NASA's 
> Stardust spacecraft in 2004 found traces of the amino acid glycine, 
> lending credence to idea that there is life elsewhere in the universe.
>
> "The discovery of glycine in a comet supports the idea that the 
> fundamental building blocks of life are prevalent in space, and 
> strengthens the argument that life in the universe may be common rather 
> than rare," said Carl Pilcher, one of the space agency's top 
> astrobiologists.
>
> Jamie Elsila, lead author of the report, which was published in the 
> journal Meteoritics and Planetary Science, said the findings also support 
> the idea that the material elements of human life may have come from 
> space.
>
> "Our discovery supports the theory that some of life's ingredients formed 
> in space and were delivered to Earth long ago by meteorite and comet 
> impacts," she said.
>
> The group's final findings confirm suspicions that the amino acid -- which 
> creates the proteins that form the building blocks of life -- were not 
> simply earth-sourced contamination.
>
> "We discovered that the Stardust-returned glycine has an extraterrestrial 
> carbon isotope signature, indicating that it originated on the comet," 
> said Elsila.
>
> Twenty different amino acids are arranged to build the millions of 
> different proteins that make up everything from hair to enzymes, NASA 
> said.
>
>
> http://livenews.com.au/life/glycine-in-wild-2-comet-dust-provides-fresh-evidence-of-life-beyond-earth/2009/8/19/216679
>
> Proof?
> who knows.
> Hope everyone is doing good today!
>
> Greg C.
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From bandk at chorus.net  Wed Sep  2 09:45:45 2009
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 08:45:45 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien life topic
References: <158584.87881.qm@web46415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <855101BB5DC94194BB013E518861F6E4@owner55652f88b>

Oh---BTW---I agree with Greg!
Have a good day all!
Kirk......:-)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Catterton" <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:09 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien life topic


> Here is some interesting reading.
>
> "GLycine in Wild 2 comet dust provides fresh evidence of life beyond 
> earth"
> Australian Associated Press | AFP
>
> The discovery ... strengthens the argument that life in the universe may 
> be common rather than rare.
>
> Astrobiologist Carl Pilcher
>
> Scientists have uncovered fresh evidence that life could exist beyond 
> Earth, with research published on Tuesday showing that comet dust 
> contained traces of a compound vital to human existence.
>
> Researchers probing dust and gas collected from the Wild 2 comet by NASA's 
> Stardust spacecraft in 2004 found traces of the amino acid glycine, 
> lending credence to idea that there is life elsewhere in the universe.
>
> "The discovery of glycine in a comet supports the idea that the 
> fundamental building blocks of life are prevalent in space, and 
> strengthens the argument that life in the universe may be common rather 
> than rare," said Carl Pilcher, one of the space agency's top 
> astrobiologists.
>
> Jamie Elsila, lead author of the report, which was published in the 
> journal Meteoritics and Planetary Science, said the findings also support 
> the idea that the material elements of human life may have come from 
> space.
>
> "Our discovery supports the theory that some of life's ingredients formed 
> in space and were delivered to Earth long ago by meteorite and comet 
> impacts," she said.
>
> The group's final findings confirm suspicions that the amino acid -- which 
> creates the proteins that form the building blocks of life -- were not 
> simply earth-sourced contamination.
>
> "We discovered that the Stardust-returned glycine has an extraterrestrial 
> carbon isotope signature, indicating that it originated on the comet," 
> said Elsila.
>
> Twenty different amino acids are arranged to build the millions of 
> different proteins that make up everything from hair to enzymes, NASA 
> said.
>
>
> http://livenews.com.au/life/glycine-in-wild-2-comet-dust-provides-fresh-evidence-of-life-beyond-earth/2009/8/19/216679
>
> Proof?
> who knows.
> Hope everyone is doing good today!
>
> Greg C.
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  2 11:02:45 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 08:02:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Famous words
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W9E4404057AF3029A7D1939BF00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <29269.95444.qm@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Nah,

Yesterday I thought a cartoon character, but this morning seeing Carl's response, all I could hear was Jimmy Durante speaking those words...
--
Richard


--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 4:49 AM
> 
> 
> Sounds like Jackie Gleason.
> 
> Carl, Flintstone Fan
> 
> 
> Pete wrote:
> 
> >What a revoltin' development this is!
> See if anyone remembers who said that one.
> Everyone saying how they liked
> "My First Meteorite Presentation" and I have to see it
> from a scan BECAUSE MY COPY STILL IS NOT HERE.
> What a revoltin' development this is!
> One of these days Meteorite Magazine, one of these days,
> pow right in the kisser!... 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
> http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Wed Sep  2 11:05:28 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 08:05:28 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Life - We are the proof!
In-Reply-To: <855101BB5DC94194BB013E518861F6E4@owner55652f88b>
References: <158584.87881.qm@web46415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<855101BB5DC94194BB013E518861F6E4@owner55652f88b>
Message-ID: <4A9E89B8.8040507@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi List,

Ok, Now we're getting somewhere. Why I didn't see the aliens for all the 
humans I don't know. Kind of the forest for the trees scenario I guess. 
Which just goes to show that life does in fact exist elsewhere. Our own 
existence proves it. We are that life, we exist therefore other life 
must exist as well. Looking at our own planet from outside our own 
galaxy, instead of saying life is "out there somewhere" why didn't we 
look back at ourselves?

Maybe because we've never left our neighborhood. In the history of human 
kind, knowledge is relative. Meaning that it's relative to local 
environment and experience. Too many times has human kind been locked in 
the box of their own interpretations of their local environment and the 
knowledge of their immediate surroundings. We've always assumed that 
everything must somehow center around ourselves. Most humans who've ever 
lived have never ventured past the realms of their own comfortable 
little worlds. Our tiny personal section of the world is what we know 
and we tend to base our interpretation of the unknown on our own biased 
local knowledge. It wasn't until recently (the past few thousand years) 
that human kind has started to look outward and beyond our own home for 
answers.

We've only very recently (geologically and universally speaking) begun 
to explore the world of meteorites and to study the composition of our 
own solar system. Not only can meteorites tell us what our solar system 
is made of, but they can tell us how old it is, and whether the 
possibility of life exists beyond our own little neck of the woods. All 
known meteorites are not even a minute fraction of the mass of our own 
planet much less the massive amounts of material floating around in our 
own solar system, or our entire galaxy, or the universe. How many 
planetary systems are in each galaxy, and how much material is floating 
around out there that we "don't" know about? How many unknown minerals, 
and chemicals have we yet to discover? We're assuming that everything is 
pretty much the same throughout the universe chemically. I ask you this. 
How can we state that unequivocally? We can't.. There are billions of 
species of life forms on out planet. How can we say with certainty that 
there is nothing else out there? We can't.

We are the answer to our own question of whether life could survive in 
the desolate universe. If we can survive, so can other life. There is NO 
arguing that. If you believe in us, you MUST believe in other life out 
there whether they be little green aliens or carbon based microbial 
lifeforms or anything else we would define as life.

Our very existence proves it. Or does it? Can someone point out a flaw 
in the logic of this thought process? Maybe this is linear thinking but 
honestly maybe I'm too tired right now after being up all night and 
can't think of one.

I'd be curious to see what people think about that.

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA


From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Wed Sep  2 11:24:05 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:24:05 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Life Topic
Message-ID: <6169DD1F2DE84260A1110282152A0F8E@ET>

Hi Kirk,

You do understand the difference between evidence and proof, do you not?  No 
one is denying the abundance of building blocks in comets and meteorites. 
You can't swing a dead cat on a rope and not hit a building block.  Amino 
acids, glycine, phosphorus, carbon, water, you name it,  it's everywhere, 
but it's not alive.  Mere organic compounds by themselves are not even close 
to being live.   And it's a huge gigantic step requiring more faith than I 
can muster to believe that life is an inevitable consequence of the mere 
presence of building blocks.  If it were, there would be life on Mars, and 
scientists would be routinely creating life in the laboratory.  Did I miss 
the headlines: "News Flash! Life Found On Mars!",  or:  "News Flash! 
Scientist Creates Life In Laboratory!", or "News Flash!, Life Found In Outer 
Space!"  I think not.

The belief in aliens seems to be a crypto-religious form of group think, 
much like the belief in angels.  It's like a self replicating dogmatic meme, 
that requires no proof, or even evidence. You can remove the concept of gods 
from science, that's fine by me,  just don't offer up Chance or Probability 
Theory (all kneel!) as the new god and expect me to worship it.

Now proof of alien life would be when Klaatu lands his flying saucer on the 
South Lawn of the Whitehouse and shares a Bud Light with Barack Obama and 
Joe Biden.

Klaatu barada nikto,

Phil Whitmer


OK Phil & others----here is some of the PROOF that you wanted!!
Sounds pretty legit to me! Read the whole thing! Hmmmmm-----Sounds like my
post last week about amino acids coming from Comet & Meteorite impacts
bringing life to Earth from deep Space!
Time to eat some crow----eh??
Kirk.......:-)



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 11:27:40 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:27:40 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Saw Fireball Last Night
Message-ID: <f0a794130909020827n7f01aecbp106fc9d88069c5ee@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I saw a pretty big fireball last night from my house in freeland MD.
It was low in the sky (maybe 15-20 degrees over horizon). It was
almost perfectly due west, 15 degrees or so south of west. It was
traveling at a 45 degree angle moving towards the south.

It was very lucky, I had just stepped outside at about 12:30 am and
saw it right over my observatory in my backyard, the second after I
went outside. I got a text from a friend this morning that said he
heard something about a carrol county fireball on the radio.

I feel special.

Thanks,

Mike Hankey
http://www.mikesastrophotos.com


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  2 11:30:33 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:30:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Famous words
Message-ID: <25387246.1251905433490.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Richard and List,

The character actor, famous in my time, William Bendix, star of the 50's television show "Life with Father" originated and used as his signature line " what a revoltin development " in every weekly episode.

I will bet a nice unclassified Nevada individual (recent find) against whatever anyone wants to put up that I'm right. First person that proves me wrong gets the prize. Proof has to be third party published material, so we can all see it.

Have fun,

Count Deiro 



-----Original Message-----
>From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:02 AM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words
>
>Nah,
>
>Yesterday I thought a cartoon character, but this morning seeing Carl's response, all I could hear was Jimmy Durante speaking those words...
>--
>Richard
>
>
>--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 4:49 AM
>> 
>> 
>> Sounds like Jackie Gleason.
>> 
>> Carl, Flintstone Fan
>> 
>> 
>> Pete wrote:
>> 
>> >What a revoltin' development this is!
>> See if anyone remembers who said that one.
>> Everyone saying how they liked
>> "My First Meteorite Presentation" and I have to see it
>> from a scan BECAUSE MY COPY STILL IS NOT HERE.
>> What a revoltin' development this is!
>> One of these days Meteorite Magazine, one of these days,
>> pow right in the kisser!... 
>> 
>> 
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
>> http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
>
>
>      
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 11:34:34 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:34:34 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Universe - TV Show
Message-ID: <f0a794130909020834o6f5939baof9b57213366de70c@mail.gmail.com>

Guys,

I'm sure you all know about this, but just in case... There is a new
HD / kick butt show on the history channel called the universe. Its
like planet earth (not quite as good quality) but about space.

Last night was the meteor episode. It was pretty awesome. This should
be on everyone's tivo/dvr. You can probably catch the meteor episode
on re-runs later this week.

Mike Hankey
http://www.mikesastrophotos.com


From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu  Wed Sep  2 11:35:05 2009
From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 08:35:05 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Famous words
In-Reply-To: <29269.95444.qm@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <29269.95444.qm@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <171b0a2e9f58c0f90cb871af430e2c55.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>

Hi Richard:

You are too young:

We have mixed quotes:

"[One of these days, Alice,] Pow, right in the kisser": Jackie Gleason as
Ralph Cramden (the Honeymooners)

"What a revoltin' development" William Bendix and Chester A. Riley (The
Life of Riley)

Larry

> Nah,
>
> Yesterday I thought a cartoon character, but this morning seeing Carl's
> response, all I could hear was Jimmy Durante speaking those words...
> --
> Richard
>
>
> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 4:49 AM
>>
>>
>> Sounds like Jackie Gleason.
>>
>> Carl, Flintstone Fan
>>
>>
>> Pete wrote:
>>
>> >What a revoltin' development this is!
>> See if anyone remembers who said that one.
>> Everyone saying how they liked
>> "My First Meteorite Presentation" and I have to see it
>> from a scan BECAUSE MY COPY STILL IS NOT HERE.
>> What a revoltin' development this is!
>> One of these days Meteorite Magazine, one of these days,
>> pow right in the kisser!...
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
>> http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




From carothersdl at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 11:29:23 2009
From: carothersdl at gmail.com (dave carothers)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:29:23 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" the Series
References: <20090831164210.STRT4.173353.imail@fed1rmwml45>
Message-ID: <695293838F9E4CF388032D87B0E908C1@your291etg47cr>

Carl,

Take it offline, please.

Dave
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <cdtucson at cox.net>
To: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>; "meteoritelist" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" the Series


> Greg,
> I am truly sorry if I mistook you for your brother about NWA 5000. I do 
> know that you are guilty of attacking me many times on this list. I know 
> we have never met and so I have always wondered why you have attacked me.
> You stated this thread with your negative remarks not me. So, I will leave 
> you alone if you do the same. It is rumored that Farmer was removed from 
> this list for libeling Steve and you have left a bad taste about me on 
> this list. Again, I do not know why?
> But your comment about me walking South is a little less than subtle as 
> well. Is that a racist remark because my name is Esparza?? My family has 
> lived here for four generations and where I live once was Mexico. BTW,
> Icebrgs would be found closer if I walk north.
>
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> IMCA 5829
> Meteoritemax
>
>
> ---- Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:
>> Again Carl,
>>
>> You have no clue. I DO NOT have NWA 5000, my brother does!
>>
>> Who did I Libel? No One! Look up the meaning of the word before you go
>> around spouting off again. You say and do things behind the scenes that 
>> are
>> not true and not good. Yes, "You" know what I mean!!!
>>
>> Carl, just go away, leave me alone, do not say any more garbage about me
>> behind the scenes that are untrue (speaking of Libel). Maybe a nice long
>> walk south, all the way south, will do you some good! It may cool you off
>> once you reach an iceberg or two!
>>
>> You are a waste of time here. I will not waste any more of it on your
>> non"sense"!
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> ====================
>> Greg Hupe
>> The Hupe Collection
>> NaturesVault (eBay)
>> gmhupe at htn.net
>> www.LunarRock.com
>> IMCA 3163
>> ====================
>> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: <cdtucson at cox.net>
>> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Greg Hupe"
>> <gmhupe at htn.net>
>> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" the Series
>>
>>
>> > Greg, list,
>> > OMG.
>> > Sorry about this but There he  goes again," Attacking" .
>> > I most certainly DO NOT "know what he means"? I have done nothing 
>> > wrong.
>> > These comments border on if not reek of Libel.
>> > I think libel is reason to be removed from this list. Hint hint.
>> > Even when somebody does something positive you turn it into a negative.
>> > The Porthole design is NWA 5000 display that you acussed Lang (I think) 
>> > of
>> > plagiarizing for his meteorite display on this very list so, you cannot
>> > deny it. . I think some Sub engineers are ahead of you on the origin of
>> > this design. . Carl
>> >
>> > --
>> > Carl or Debbie Esparza
>> > IMCA 5829
>> > Meteoritemax
>> >
>> >
>> > ---- Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:
>> >> Carl,
>> >>
>> >> First, I am not looking for fans and press! I do what I do because "I"
>> >> enjoy
>> >> it, and yes, that means meteorites and most aspects about them. I say
>> >> most,
>> >> because like all things, there are negatives to everything. I think 
>> >> "You"
>> >> are one of these negatives that I need not get into here, "You" know 
>> >> what
>> >> I
>> >> mean!
>> >>
>> >> As for some of your comments, I do not know what you mean about a
>> >> porthole
>> >> design, you are thinking of someone else. You say you would like to
>> >> continue
>> >> Steve and Geoff's positive theme, Good, now go do it instead of your
>> >> behind
>> >> the scenes "Negative" acts you do. "You" know what I mean!
>> >>
>> >> I think that the majority of the List Members do Not want you to speak
>> >> for
>> >> them. There are many who know about your behind the scenes antics and
>> >> negativity. "You" know what I mean!
>> >>
>> >> I do not know what you mean by stating, "We no longer have Bob
>> >> Haag..."???
>> >> He is alive and well, AND promotes meteorites positively every day!!
>> >> "You"
>> >> Do Not know what I mean!
>> >>
>> >> Carl, I wish you the best in joining Steve and Geoff! "That" should 
>> >> add
>> >> an
>> >> interesting twist to their show!
>> >>
>> >> I apologize to the List Members for these Carl Esparza emails, he has
>> >> gotten
>> >> out of hand, and "He" knows what I mean!
>> >>
>> >> With that, I think I will get back to the "nothing" I do for
>> >> meteoritics...
>> >>
>> >> "Best regards",
>> >> Greg
>> >>
>> >> ====================
>> >> Greg Hupe
>> >> The Hupe Collection
>> >> NaturesVault (eBay)
>> >> gmhupe at htn.net
>> >> www.LunarRock.com
>> >> IMCA 3163
>> >> ====================
>> >> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
>> >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> From: <cdtucson at cox.net>
>> >> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Greg 
>> >> Hupe"
>> >> <gmhupe at htn.net>
>> >> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:02 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" the Series
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Greg,
>> >> > You crack me up.
>> >> > How can you insult me and then sign off with; "Best regards,
>> >> > Greg ".
>> >> > I'm sorry that you don't ever do anything to generate your own pool 
>> >> > of
>> >> > "fans", But The Meteorite Men Do!. Unlike all of your posts, they 
>> >> > are
>> >> > constantly promoting this hobby with a super positive and 
>> >> > enthusiastic
>> >> > influence. I am sorry I have nothing negative to say about them but 
>> >> > I
>> >> > did
>> >> > not compliment them with you in mind.
>> >> > I am also sorry you have such a negative view about this hobby. If 
>> >> > you
>> >> > are
>> >> > not complaining about me you are complaining about some ugly design 
>> >> > for
>> >> > a
>> >> > meteorite display that looks like a porthole on a submarine. Sorry 
>> >> > but
>> >> > that design has long been taken. Perhaps the next display design 
>> >> > will
>> >> > have
>> >> > a bit more originality to it.
>> >> > All I was trying to do is continue Geoff and Steve's positive theme.
>> >> > And
>> >> > there you go attacking AGAIN. Greg I think I speak for a lot of 
>> >> > people
>> >> > on
>> >> > this list when I say : "Please stop with the negative".
>> >> > We no longer have Bob Haag with his positive influence and 
>> >> > enthusiasm
>> >> > and
>> >> > I think the torch has obviously been passed to The Meteorite Men. 
>> >> > They
>> >> > do
>> >> > deserve it.
>> >> > And yes my PS Geoff comment was a hint that I would like to join 
>> >> > them.
>> >> > Again, maybe people would like you too if you could just show a 
>> >> > little
>> >> > kindness once in a while as they do.... Gees.
>> >> > Best Regards, Greg. I mean Carl.
>> >> > --
>> >> > Carl or Debbie Esparza
>> >> > IMCA 5829
>> >> > Meteoritemax
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ---- Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:
>> >> >> Carl,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Can you get any more gushing over these guys, very tacky email! 
>> >> >> When
>> >> >> you
>> >> >> say, "PS Geoff, Was that thick enough? Kidding!!", we know what you
>> >> >> mean.
>> >> >> Go
>> >> >> out there and find your own 'authenticated' meteorites, you know 
>> >> >> what
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> mean!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I think I prefer the "Aliens" posts better than reading, and/or,
>> >> >> deleting
>> >> >> your (non"sense")! I think I need to go lose my lunch now...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Best regards,
>> >> >> Greg
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ====================
>> >> >> Greg Hupe
>> >> >> The Hupe Collection
>> >> >> NaturesVault (eBay)
>> >> >> gmhupe at htn.net
>> >> >> www.LunarRock.com
>> >> >> IMCA 3163
>> >> >> ====================
>> >> >> Click here for my current eBay auctions:
>> >> >> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> >> >> From: <cdtucson at cox.net>
>> >> >> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; 
>> >> >> "Notkin"
>> >> >> <geoking at notkin.net>
>> >> >> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:02 AM
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] "Meteorite Men" the Series
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Dear List,
>> >> >> > I have a question; Does any body know what Geoff drives? off-list
>> >> >> > please.
>> >> >> > Haha. just kidding folks.
>> >> >> > Geoff and Steve,
>> >> >> > This is such exciting news about your new TV series and your
>> >> >> > Newspaper
>> >> >> > blog is just as great. I can't wait to follow your progress(oops,
>> >> >> > did I
>> >> >> > say follow). Your point about filming at the next Tucson gem Show 
>> >> >> > is
>> >> >> > really exciting as well. Many Impotent I mean  Important people 
>> >> >> > come
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > the Tucson show. You have millions of ready made stars at hand. 
>> >> >> > Not
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > mention all of the people as well. This should turn out to be the
>> >> >> > greatest
>> >> >> > Tucson Gem show ever. Especially with the Birthday bash. Man you
>> >> >> > Meteorite
>> >> >> > Men just don't  stop.
>> >> >> > Thanks guys.
>> >> >> > Carl
>> >> >> > PS Geoff, Was that thick enough? Kidding!!
>> >> >> > Very very nice going guys.
>> >> >> > a huge Congrats to you both. Best wishes for success as well.
>> >> >> > Carl
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Carl or Debbie Esparza
>> >> >> > IMCA 5829
>> >> >> > Meteoritemax
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ---- Notkin <geoking at notkin.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >> Dear Listees:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> As a few of your already know, from our Twitter announcements 
>> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> Facebook page, Steve Arnold and I recently received exciting 
>> >> >> >> news
>> >> >> >> from
>> >> >> >> our network. The "Meteorite Men" pilot was a success, received 
>> >> >> >> very
>> >> >> >> good ratings and feedback (thank you viewers!) and Science 
>> >> >> >> Channel
>> >> >> >> has
>> >> >> >> ordered a series. Two additional documentary producers have 
>> >> >> >> joined
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> original pilot team, and the new series will air in 2010. You'll
>> >> >> >> excuse us if we keep the details of where we're going and what
>> >> >> >> we'll
>> >> >> >> be doing to ourselves for the moment  : )
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> My esteemed editors at TucsonCitizen.com have encouraged me to 
>> >> >> >> keep
>> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> "making-of" diary that will give readers a behind-the-scenes 
>> >> >> >> look
>> >> >> >> at
>> >> >> >> how the show is created. For now, I'll be doing occasional diary
>> >> >> >> posts, with more regular entries while we are filming. I was 
>> >> >> >> rather
>> >> >> >> flattered that yesterday's TV diary entry became a featured 
>> >> >> >> story
>> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >> the front page of TucsonCitizen.com today:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> http://tucsoncitizen.com
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> (please give the animated stories a couple of seconds to run
>> >> >> >> through)
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The direct link to the ongoing TV diary is here:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> http://tucsoncitizen.com/lizard/category/meteorite-men-tv-diary/
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> If you'd like to receive the most up-to-date info about the 
>> >> >> >> show,
>> >> >> >> please join us on Twitter:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> http://twitter.com/meteoritemen
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Steve and I would like to thank everyone who has given us
>> >> >> >> friendship,
>> >> >> >> support, and encouragement along the way. You know who you are. 
>> >> >> >> As
>> >> >> >> we
>> >> >> >> continue to work on the new series, we'll do our very best to 
>> >> >> >> show
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> meteorite community in a good light.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Respectfully,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Geoff N.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> www.aerolite.org
>> >> >> >> www.meteoritemen.com
>> >> >> >> www.meteoriteblog.org
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> ______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> >> >> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >> >> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> >> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >> >> > ______________________________________________
>> >> >> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> >> >> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >> >> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> >> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Wed Sep  2 11:37:13 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:37:13 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Life Topic
Message-ID: <ABD0E69FE3D14C02BA58DC7BAB4876AE@ET>

Hi Eric,

Nice summary of  the anthropic principle:  no matter how low the probability 
that any given galaxy will have intelligent life in it, the universe must 
have at least one intelligent species by definition otherwise the question 
would not arise. (Wikipedia)


Hi List,

Ok, Now we're getting somewhere. Why I didn't see the aliens for all the
humans I don't know. Kind of the forest for the trees scenario I guess.
Which just goes to show that life does in fact exist elsewhere. Our own
existence proves it. We are that life, we exist therefore other life
must exist as well. Looking at our own planet from outside our own
galaxy, instead of saying life is "out there somewhere" why didn't we
look back at ourselves?



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Wed Sep  2 11:41:08 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:41:08 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Famous Words
Message-ID: <0E9C4565D9FF4979AF423D13FB12FAC9@ET>

You're going to the moon Alice!   was always one of my favorites

Phil Whitmer


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  2 11:41:54 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:41:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Famous words
Message-ID: <2779539.1251906114960.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

You right Larry. I'm in my 70's. I blew the title of the show, but you even had the character's name. Good ole Chester A. Riley. I'm still laughing. Glad to know somebody else out there might be a "grey wolf" like me.

Good on ya,

Count Deiro

-----Original Message-----
>From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:35 AM
>To: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
>Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words
>
>Hi Richard:
>
>You are too young:
>
>We have mixed quotes:
>
>"[One of these days, Alice,] Pow, right in the kisser": Jackie Gleason as
>Ralph Cramden (the Honeymooners)
>
>"What a revoltin' development" William Bendix and Chester A. Riley (The
>Life of Riley)
>
>Larry
>
>> Nah,
>>
>> Yesterday I thought a cartoon character, but this morning seeing Carl's
>> response, all I could hear was Jimmy Durante speaking those words...
>> --
>> Richard
>>
>>
>> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 4:49 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds like Jackie Gleason.
>>>
>>> Carl, Flintstone Fan
>>>
>>>
>>> Pete wrote:
>>>
>>> >What a revoltin' development this is!
>>> See if anyone remembers who said that one.
>>> Everyone saying how they liked
>>> "My First Meteorite Presentation" and I have to see it
>>> from a scan BECAUSE MY COPY STILL IS NOT HERE.
>>> What a revoltin' development this is!
>>> One of these days Meteorite Magazine, one of these days,
>>> pow right in the kisser!...
>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
>>> http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  2 11:42:42 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 08:42:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Famous words
In-Reply-To: <171b0a2e9f58c0f90cb871af430e2c55.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <481436.89398.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Larry and all,

yep, I am too young, but I'm hearing that from others less and less and saying it to others more and more.

I stand corrected by those who know better than I.

--
Richard


--- On Wed, 9/2/09, lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu <lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu> wrote:

> From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu <lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words
> To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 8:35 AM
> Hi Richard:
> 
> You are too young:
> 
> We have mixed quotes:
> 
> "[One of these days, Alice,] Pow, right in the kisser":
> Jackie Gleason as
> Ralph Cramden (the Honeymooners)
> 
> "What a revoltin' development" William Bendix and Chester
> A. Riley (The
> Life of Riley)
> 
> Larry



      


From fcb at astronomics.com  Wed Sep  2 11:42:50 2009
From: fcb at astronomics.com (Fred Bieler)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:42:50 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] FW:  Famous words
Message-ID: <000101ca2be4$075db500$16191f00$@com>


Leon Ames was in the TV series "Life with Father" in 1953-55. William Bendix
was in The Life of Riley" in 1953-58, 212 episodes, and used the "What a
revoltin' development this is" catchphrase in that show.

Fred Bieler
Astronomics/Christophers, Ltd./Cloudy Nights
www.astronomics.com
800.422.7876

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
countdeiro at earthlink.net
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:31 AM
To: Richard Kowalski; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Carl 's
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words

Richard and List,

The character actor, famous in my time, William Bendix, star of the 50's
television show "Life with Father" originated and used as his signature line
" what a revoltin development " in every weekly episode.

I will bet a nice unclassified Nevada individual (recent find) against
whatever anyone wants to put up that I'm right. First person that proves me
wrong gets the prize. Proof has to be third party published material, so we
can all see it.

Have fun,

Count Deiro 



-----Original Message-----
>From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:02 AM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, Carl 's
<carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words
>
>Nah,
>
>Yesterday I thought a cartoon character, but this morning seeing Carl's
response, all I could hear was Jimmy Durante speaking those words...
>--
>Richard
>
>
>--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 4:49 AM
>> 
>> 
>> Sounds like Jackie Gleason.
>> 
>> Carl, Flintstone Fan
>> 
>> 
>> Pete wrote:
>> 
>> >What a revoltin' development this is!
>> See if anyone remembers who said that one.
>> Everyone saying how they liked
>> "My First Meteorite Presentation" and I have to see it
>> from a scan BECAUSE MY COPY STILL IS NOT HERE.
>> What a revoltin' development this is!
>> One of these days Meteorite Magazine, one of these days,
>> pow right in the kisser!... 
>> 
>> 
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
>>
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackT
oSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
>
>
>      
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From GeoZay at aol.com  Wed Sep  2 11:48:24 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:48:24 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Famous words
Message-ID: <d38.55968acb.37cfedc8@aol.com>

>>Glad to know somebody else out there  might be a "grey wolf" like me.<<

You're just a hound dog...crying  all the time. :O)
GeoZay  



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 11:52:52 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:52:52 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Universe TV Show
Message-ID: <f0a794130909020852s353643b9oc5c873d400370345@mail.gmail.com>

I forgot to mention Richard's Observatory was featured on the show
last night. They started the show out with the TC3 discovery. I looked
at my wife and said, I know that guy. He's on the met list! I was
expecting to see you on the show Richard, but I think they must have
cut you out! :)


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  2 11:55:49 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:55:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Winner of Famous Words Contest.
Message-ID: <3914079.1251906950062.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi Larry, Richard and List,

I had the series name incorrect, and notwithstanding that I had the correct personality, William Bendix, I'm declaring Larry the winner. Your Nevada meteorite will be in the mail as soon as you send me your address Larry.  Hope to meet you personally on some strewn field, or Tucson in February.

Guido..Count Deiro


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Wed Sep  2 12:07:51 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 12:07:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Famous words
Message-ID: <30777607.1251907671881.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Your right! Still LMAO at that. But, the line was taken from the much earlier, William Bendix TV character, Chester A. Riley in Life with Riley. That show had all of us in high school at the time (51-55) repeating it. Larry is the winner. I had Bendix, but blew the show..so he gets the meteorite.

Nice slide into second,

Count Deiro

-----Original Message-----
>From: "Matson, Robert D." <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:37 AM
>To: countdeiro at earthlink.net
>Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Famous words
>
>Greetings Count!
>I'll forward to you what I forwarded to Richard and others earlier:
>Daffy Duck as Duck Dodgers in the 24th-and-a-half Century is the cartoon
>character that Richard was thinking of:
>
>Backup material:
>
>http://www.stuporduck.com/sounds/DS174.wav
>
>Whether this predates "Life with Father" is another matter, but
>certainly
>Daffy Duck is responsible for immortalizing the phrase in the minds of
>today's 35-60 year olds.
>
>Best,
>Rob
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
>countdeiro at earthlink.net
>Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:31 AM
>To: Richard Kowalski; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Carl 's
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words
>
>Richard and List,
>
>The character actor, famous in my time, William Bendix, star of the 50's
>television show "Life with Father" originated and used as his signature
>line " what a revoltin development " in every weekly episode.
>
>I will bet a nice unclassified Nevada individual (recent find) against
>whatever anyone wants to put up that I'm right. First person that proves
>me wrong gets the prize. Proof has to be third party published material,
>so we can all see it.
>
>Have fun,
>
>Count Deiro 



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 12:04:20 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 12:04:20 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Front Page News
Message-ID: <f0a794130909020904t48d6120aj1038830fa97cf9b8@mail.gmail.com>

Hey,

Ok, sorry I know I have a lot to say today.

I made it to the front page of the Lancaster County Newspaper today.

http://www.reddit.com/tb/9gkqe

Just so you know, I was misquoted a couple of times in the article. I
know I will get some corrections from you guys, so just want to go on
record before you read it. The main problem is the line about black &
magnetic = meteorite ... I did NOT say that. I said : black & magnetic
= maybe meteorite (take picture and email it to expert).

I also didn't say meteorites cost $1000 per gram.. might be a couple
of other wrong things in there, but I'm still happy with it.

I've already got two people trying to contact me cause they say they
found meteorites. I will probably have to search through a ton of fine
PA slag....

If you have a reddit account, please up-vote the story. If you don't
have a reddit account, get one (only takes 5 seconds) and then up-vote
the story. ( i will really appreciate it and the meteor gods will send
you blessings)

Thanks,

Mike Hankey
http://www.mikesastrophotos.com


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  2 12:12:37 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 09:12:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Universe TV Show
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909020852s353643b9oc5c873d400370345@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <268015.87245.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

No, they didn't do any taping here... And they got our name wrong. We're Catalina Sky Survey, not Catalina Sky Observatory. The photo they showed is of our Schmidt telescope, which is about 8 km from our 1.5-m telescope on top of Mt. Lemmon. The 1.5-m was where TC3 was discovered.

There is a National Geographic Channel program in final production that should air in a few months that is specifically about the 2008 TC3. It'll be divided into approximately thirds; Discovery, the flurry of activity the day before impact and then the recovery of the Almahata Sitta meteorites.


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Universe TV Show
> To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 8:52 AM
> I forgot to mention Richard's
> Observatory was featured on the show
> last night. They started the show out with the TC3
> discovery. I looked
> at my wife and said, I know that guy. He's on the met list!
> I was
> expecting to see you on the show Richard, but I think they
> must have
> cut you out! :)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From fcb at astronomics.com  Wed Sep  2 11:12:04 2009
From: fcb at astronomics.com (Fred Bieler)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:12:04 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Famous words
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W9E4404057AF3029A7D1939BF00@phx.gbl>
References: <COL108-W9E4404057AF3029A7D1939BF00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <001e01ca2bdf$bae03e40$30a0bac0$@com>

William Bendix, "the Life of Riley," NBC-TV 1953-58. Gleason played the role
for one season, 49-50, but really wasn't suited to the blue collar role. 

Fred Bieler
Astronomics/Christophers, Ltd./Cloudy Nights
www.astronomics.com
800.422.7876

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Carl 's
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 6:50 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words



Sounds like Jackie Gleason.

Carl, Flintstone Fan


Pete wrote:

>What a revoltin' development this is!
See if anyone remembers who said that one.
Everyone saying how they liked
"My First Meteorite Presentation" and I have to see it
from a scan BECAUSE MY COPY STILL IS NOT HERE.
What a revoltin' development this is!
One of these days Meteorite Magazine, one of these days,
pow right in the kisser!... 


_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackT
oSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  2 12:52:01 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 09:52:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] 7 NEW FREEBIES
Message-ID: <738619.2084.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi list.I have 7 new freebies to givaway today..I have 3 unclassed small individuals,3.5,4.0 4.5 grams,1 mali 4.4 gram slice,1 mali 18 gram stone,1 8 gram oriented sikohote-alin,3 fragments of nwa 1794? 4 grams.I encourage newbies to chime in.On these offerings,it will be the usa only this time.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


      



From holmesw at frontiernet.net  Wed Sep  2 12:50:35 2009
From: holmesw at frontiernet.net (Wayne Holmes)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 09:50:35 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Remove me from list
Message-ID: <001201ca2bed$7f25aee0$0200a8c0@Buckaroos>

Please remove me from the list.
Thanks
Wayne


From mikewren at gilanet.com  Wed Sep  2 13:03:42 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:03:42 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Remove me from list
In-Reply-To: <001201ca2bed$7f25aee0$0200a8c0@Buckaroos>
References: <001201ca2bed$7f25aee0$0200a8c0@Buckaroos>
Message-ID: <08E0D338-7BC9-409C-B3D0-0B1B68C8F7D9@gilanet.com>

No way ... you are on forever...

Just kidding, you have to go to the home page for the list and remove  
yourself... meteoritecentral.com



On Sep 2, 2009, at 9:50 AM, Wayne Holmes wrote:

> Please remove me from the list.
> Thanks
> Wayne
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From rlenssen at planet.nl  Wed Sep  2 13:19:12 2009
From: rlenssen at planet.nl (Rob Lenssen)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:19:12 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: type 3's & Olivine Diogenite
Message-ID: <C6332362A6A34288961CBC4D7A354983@EIGENAARNJEQJY>

Dear List,

I have some quality material Ebay auctions running:

- Top quality endcuts (small) of the fresh L3.2 (NWA5730 L3.2 S2 W1)
- Colourful L3.5 slices (NWA5729 L3.5 S1 W2): Bulls-eye Chondrules!
- Small Olivine Diogenite slice and endcut

You might want to have a look at: http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/rob1612mar

Thanks,
Rob Lenssen
IMCA #1681


From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 13:24:48 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:24:48 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Universe TV Show
In-Reply-To: <268015.87245.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <f0a794130909020852s353643b9oc5c873d400370345@mail.gmail.com>
	<268015.87245.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f0a794130909021024t54364610v45af2c551a491844@mail.gmail.com>

I'm looking forward to seeing the nat geo show. I was disappointed
they didn't spend more time on your guys / your work. Its still pretty
cool though. Congrats.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 12:12 PM, Richard Kowalski<damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote:
> No, they didn't do any taping here... And they got our name wrong. We're Catalina Sky Survey, not Catalina Sky Observatory. The photo they showed is of our Schmidt telescope, which is about 8 km from our 1.5-m telescope on top of Mt. Lemmon. The 1.5-m was where TC3 was discovered.
>
> There is a National Geographic Channel program in final production that should air in a few months that is specifically about the 2008 TC3. It'll be divided into approximately thirds; Discovery, the flurry of activity the day before impact and then the recovery of the Almahata Sitta meteorites.
>
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Universe TV Show
>> To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 8:52 AM
>> I forgot to mention Richard's
>> Observatory was featured on the show
>> last night. They started the show out with the TC3
>> discovery. I looked
>> at my wife and said, I know that guy. He's on the met list!
>> I was
>> expecting to see you on the show Richard, but I think they
>> must have
>> cut you out! :)
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
>


From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Sep  2 14:45:11 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:45:11 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Universe TV Show
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909020852s353643b9oc5c873d400370345@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0a794130909020852s353643b9oc5c873d400370345@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a9ft95p84lsq8801ftq8n6c2ni74159h85@4ax.com>

Download link:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/5x2t9m


From geeg48 at msn.com  Wed Sep  2 13:52:08 2009
From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:52:08 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Life Topic
In-Reply-To: <6169DD1F2DE84260A1110282152A0F8E@ET>
References: <6169DD1F2DE84260A1110282152A0F8E@ET>
Message-ID: <BLU125-W9AA323DB343653D2D43ADC9F00@phx.gbl>


 
     Hi Phil,
 
  I pretty much agree with your post.  I believe most of those who don't believe in God, bow to the own god known as evolution.  They are determined....highly motivated to believe in evolution no matter what.    
  As for me, I look at the universe around me, from the macro to the micro, and all I see is an intricately *designed* universe.  I say this knowing that my statement doesn't help me here on "The List", and that you probably don't agree with me either.  It just makes me more of an outsider.
  The fact is, I'm a Christian (OOhhhh NOOoooo, Greg, DON'T admit that!)  It get's even worse.  I retired from a ministry at San Quentin Prison, so my beliefs are strong....not stupid, just strong.
  So, you may not believe in a deity, you may just see the weak arguments for evolution.  So do I.  I just go a step beyond that.  I see strong arguments for creation.
  In any event, even though we may not be in complete agreement, I do appreciate your point of view.  
  I also very much appreciate your little reference to "The Day The Earth Stood Still". "Klaatu barada nikto", back at you.
 
  Greg Lindh  
 

> From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:24:05 -0400
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Life Topic
> 
> Hi Kirk,
> 
> You do understand the difference between evidence and proof, do you not? No 
> one is denying the abundance of building blocks in comets and meteorites. 
> You can't swing a dead cat on a rope and not hit a building block. Amino 
> acids, glycine, phosphorus, carbon, water, you name it, it's everywhere, 
> but it's not alive. Mere organic compounds by themselves are not even close 
> to being live. And it's a huge gigantic step requiring more faith than I 
> can muster to believe that life is an inevitable consequence of the mere 
> presence of building blocks. If it were, there would be life on Mars, and 
> scientists would be routinely creating life in the laboratory. Did I miss 
> the headlines: "News Flash! Life Found On Mars!", or: "News Flash! 
> Scientist Creates Life In Laboratory!", or "News Flash!, Life Found In Outer 
> Space!" I think not.
> 
> The belief in aliens seems to be a crypto-religious form of group think, 
> much like the belief in angels. It's like a self replicating dogmatic meme, 
> that requires no proof, or even evidence. You can remove the concept of gods 
> from science, that's fine by me, just don't offer up Chance or Probability 
> Theory (all kneel!) as the new god and expect me to worship it.
> 
> Now proof of alien life would be when Klaatu lands his flying saucer on the 
> South Lawn of the Whitehouse and shares a Bud Light with Barack Obama and 
> Joe Biden.
> 
> Klaatu barada nikto,
> 
> Phil Whitmer
> 
> 
> OK Phil & others----here is some of the PROOF that you wanted!!
> Sounds pretty legit to me! Read the whole thing! Hmmmmm-----Sounds like my
> post last week about amino acids coming from Comet & Meteorite impacts
> bringing life to Earth from deep Space!
> Time to eat some crow----eh??
> Kirk.......:-)
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From bristolia at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  2 13:52:12 2009
From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:52:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Christian Koeberl's List of Publications (Lots of
	PDF Files)
Message-ID: <75735.608.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Christian Koeberl's List of Publications

http://www.univie.ac.at/geochemistry/koeberl/publikation_list/

Lots of PDF files of very interesting papers by Dr. Christian 
Koeberl to be downloaded from the above web page.

Yours,

Paul H.


      


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 13:57:23 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:57:23 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Christian Koeberl's List of Publications (Lots
	of PDF Files)
In-Reply-To: <75735.608.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <75735.608.qm@web36201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550909021057m553a0b7p843be1008cdac2eb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Paul!

Wow, thanks for the link.  There's a lot of interesting stuff on that site. :)

Finally, a post on the Met List about METEORITES!  (and there was much
rejoicing!......yah!)

Best regards,

MikeG


On 9/2/09, Paul <bristolia at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Christian Koeberl's List of Publications
>
> http://www.univie.ac.at/geochemistry/koeberl/publikation_list/
>
> Lots of PDF files of very interesting papers by Dr. Christian
> Koeberl to be downloaded from the above web page.
>
> Yours,
>
> Paul H.
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  2 15:36:15 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 12:36:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay listings, items ending soon.
Message-ID: <111602.99665.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi to all, I have some items ending today and all this week.
Some of what you will find:

Camel Donga fragments and whole stones
Tatahouine 
Lunar fragments from .27g to .80g and some really nice lunar displays for only $25!


Check out my ebay listings:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1

I also have some very nice Camel Donga thin sections for sale for only $80 each. Send me an email for more on them.

Hope everyone has a good day!

Greg C.


      


From mikewren at gilanet.com  Wed Sep  2 15:50:05 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 12:50:05 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: AUCTIONS ENDING IN A FEW HOURS- Many Still At
	Great Prices ... Store Sale Ends Today!
References: <66BC782C-C74B-459B-A24F-8EF412D7DD71@gilanet.com>
Message-ID: <E321D02A-3DAB-4577-9CD9-86155A599F4F@gilanet.com>



>
>
> Hello,
>
> Here is another great group of meteorite auctions this week! Please  
> check them out.
>
> ALL AUCTIONS HERE:
>
> http://shop.ebay.com:80/merchant/meteorite-collector_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ
>
>
> ALL BONDOC SPECIMENS HERE (SALE ENDS SOON! I will consider trades on  
> Larger Bondoc Specimens, if you would like!)
>
> http://stores.shop.ebay.com/VOYAGE-BOTANICA-NATURAL-HISTORY__W0QQ_sidZ1015304?_nkw=bondoc&submit=Search
>
>
>
>
>
>
> HIGHLIGHTS! Check these superb specimens out!
>
> A Beautiful Slice Of LUEDERS, Silicated 49.9g ... An Amazing Slice  
> of a very rare silicated Iron!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377276705
>
> CANYON DIABLO Individual, IAB Iron, 1136g, BIG BIG INDIVIDUAL
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377277783
>
> NEW) Ungrouped Ataxite, GRIFFITH, TX, 6.47g - Nice part slice.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377537618
>
> GHUBARA, L5 Black Xenolithic, Oman, 622 g _ BIG BIG SLICE
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377564350
>
> A Beautiful Slice of SEYMCHAN, Pal, 118 gram- VERY LAST BEAUTY TO  
> AUCTION, Well worth over $1000.00+
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377576777
>
> (New) WILBUR WASH, Az., L6, Slice, 79.79 gram LAST LAST BIG SLICE!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377565395
>
> LAHOMA, Oklahoma, L5 Chondrite, 17.03 gram- ONLY SPECIMEN FOR AUCTION!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377541605
>
> Extremely Rare-WABAR, Saudi Arabia, 4.89 g- There NEVER is going to  
> be much of this rare iron available. Never has, Never will be...
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377264215
>
> Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-125.6g- Nice One!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377255345
>
> Nice Specimen of NWA 482, Lunar, 152 mg- VERY NICE LUNAR SLICE!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377259588
>
> Seldom Available PAMPA (c), Chile, L4, 1.18g, pretty rare these  
> days...
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377542896
>
> Individual From HENBURY, Australia, 2.57g...take a look at this  
> little one
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377542326
>
> Nice Specimen of NWA 869, L4-6, 140 gram- BIG BIG SLICE!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377538167
>
> Seldom Available GRUVER, Texas, H4, 16.39g, Nice Large Slice
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377276428
>
> Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-44.20g- Nice specimen-Cheap
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377273212
>
> Outstanding Silicated-Campo Del Cielo -79.20g- A real Nice Specimen
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377259102
>
> (NEW) NWA 4851, L6 With Shock Lines, 68.10g- Worth Having!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377258303
>
> A very Rare EL3 From Africa, NWA 2965, 179.9g- This one is getting  
> harder to fine...
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377252662
>
> SAYH AL UHAYMIR 001, L4/5, Oman, 11.89 gram-Nice Individual
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377272971
>
> Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-48.60g-Nice Crust!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377273608
>
> Seldom Available COVERT, Kansas, H5, 3.50 g - pretty slice
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377272439
>
> Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-96.05g- Another Nice One
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377256287
>
> (VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 0.63g..AKA Ash Creek -Nice slice.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377263355
>
> (New) CV3, NWA 5546 From Africa, 18.19 gram, A real Nice Slice...
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377273354
>
> Rare NWA 2932, Mesosiderite, Nice! 3.50 gram - Nice Metal
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377271266
>
> Chondrule Rich- NWA 5421, LL3.7, 5.74 gram- Must See Slice
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377274848
>
> Outstanding Silicated Iron, NWA 5549, 4.81g- Nice One...
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377274199
>
> -EADS, Colorado, H4 & Seldom Available, 9.26g - Seldom Available
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377273866
>
> Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-157.5g - Another, Another Nice  
> One- Nice Black Crust!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377535650
>
> (New) Martian Shergottite, NWA 4925, "Mars", Nice specimen
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377274537
>
> (New) Olivine Diogenite-NWA 5480, 2.22 gram- This is a real nice  
> slice!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377260779
>
> Classic American H6, OZONA, Texas, 2.30 gram
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200377541927
>
> and of course many, many others, including some cool non-meteorite  
> auctions, well worth a look!
>
>
> As Always -Thanks and Best Wishes
>
> Michael Cottingham
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>



From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  2 16:49:51 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:49:51 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Universe TV show/Mike Hankey's front page news
Message-ID: <COL108-W50FCD5C7C1637EC77B32D29BF00@phx.gbl>




Rats! I don't get the National Geographic Channel. :( Another can't miss show that I'll be missing. Sounds like a great show, too.

Mike, great article on your front page news!

Carl

>There is a National Geographic Channel program in final production that 
> should air in a few months that is specifically about the 2008 TC3. It'll be 
> divided into approximately thirds; Discovery, the flurry of activity the day 
> before impact and then the recovery of the Almahata Sitta meteorites.
>


_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1

From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Wed Sep  2 17:17:55 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 16:17:55 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Famous words
References: <25387246.1251905433490.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <110102C6EAC041A59D885B2A3F72CE96@ATARIENGINE2>

William Bendix (who did say "What a revoltin'
development," had a TV show called "The Life
of Riley," not "Life With Father." He used the
line on his radio show of the same name in
the Forties, and it was a universal clich? of
the war years.

"Life With Father" was first a huge Broadway hit
play in 1939, then a 1947 movie with William
Powell and Irene Dunne, and then a TV show
from 1953 to 1955, with Leon Ames and Lurene
Tuttle. It was based on memoirs written by
Clarence Day Jr. about his father (logically
enough).

Don't they teach you kids anything...?


Sterling K. Webb
----------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Carl 's" 
<carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words


> Richard and List,
>
> The character actor, famous in my time, William Bendix, star of the 
> 50's television show "Life with Father" originated and used as his 
> signature line " what a revoltin development " in every weekly 
> episode.
>
> I will bet a nice unclassified Nevada individual (recent find) against 
> whatever anyone wants to put up that I'm right. First person that 
> proves me wrong gets the prize. Proof has to be third party published 
> material, so we can all see it.
>
> Have fun,
>
> Count Deiro
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
>>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:02 AM
>>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, Carl 's 
>><carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words
>>
>>Nah,
>>
>>Yesterday I thought a cartoon character, but this morning seeing 
>>Carl's response, all I could hear was Jimmy Durante speaking those 
>>words...
>>--
>>Richard
>>
>>
>>--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 4:49 AM
>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds like Jackie Gleason.
>>>
>>> Carl, Flintstone Fan
>>>
>>>
>>> Pete wrote:
>>>
>>> >What a revoltin' development this is!
>>> See if anyone remembers who said that one.
>>> Everyone saying how they liked
>>> "My First Meteorite Presentation" and I have to see it
>>> from a scan BECAUSE MY COPY STILL IS NOT HERE.
>>> What a revoltin' development this is!
>>> One of these days Meteorite Magazine, one of these days,
>>> pow right in the kisser!...
>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
>>> http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  2 17:51:14 2009
From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 14:51:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] the chemistry of the universe
In-Reply-To: <4A9E89B8.8040507@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <803020.22328.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com>



--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:

How many unknown minerals,
> and chemicals have we yet to discover? We're assuming that
> everything is pretty much the same throughout the universe
> chemically. I ask you this. How can we state that
> unequivocally? We can't.. 


Well, actually, we can.

Spectroscopy informs us quite equivocally that the elements of matter on earth are the same as the elements across the universe. The laws of physics and chemistry is universally the same and atoms will join up with each other the same as they do on earth or in a laboratory under the same conditions of pressure, temperature and concentration producing the same minerals wherever they are. 

Yes, we will find a few new minerals formed under exceptional circumstances that perhaps we haven't even conceived of yet, or been unable to examine using current technology but generally, what you see here is pretty much all there is out there, too.

Rob McC




      


From bandk at chorus.net  Wed Sep  2 18:34:28 2009
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 17:34:28 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Life - We are the proof!
References: <158584.87881.qm@web46415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><855101BB5DC94194BB013E518861F6E4@owner55652f88b>
	<4A9E89B8.8040507@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <10130508544F41348AC429E8FF5E3127@owner55652f88b>

Great post Eric----tres bien! 
You said it better than I tried to!!
Kirk.......:-)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:05 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Life - We are the proof!


> Hi List,
> 
> Ok, Now we're getting somewhere. Why I didn't see the aliens for all the 
> humans I don't know. Kind of the forest for the trees scenario I guess. 
> Which just goes to show that life does in fact exist elsewhere. Our own 
> existence proves it. We are that life, we exist therefore other life 
> must exist as well. Looking at our own planet from outside our own 
> galaxy, instead of saying life is "out there somewhere" why didn't we 
> look back at ourselves?
> 
> Maybe because we've never left our neighborhood. In the history of human 
> kind, knowledge is relative. Meaning that it's relative to local 
> environment and experience. Too many times has human kind been locked in 
> the box of their own interpretations of their local environment and the 
> knowledge of their immediate surroundings. We've always assumed that 
> everything must somehow center around ourselves. Most humans who've ever 
> lived have never ventured past the realms of their own comfortable 
> little worlds. Our tiny personal section of the world is what we know 
> and we tend to base our interpretation of the unknown on our own biased 
> local knowledge. It wasn't until recently (the past few thousand years) 
> that human kind has started to look outward and beyond our own home for 
> answers.
> 
> We've only very recently (geologically and universally speaking) begun 
> to explore the world of meteorites and to study the composition of our 
> own solar system. Not only can meteorites tell us what our solar system 
> is made of, but they can tell us how old it is, and whether the 
> possibility of life exists beyond our own little neck of the woods. All 
> known meteorites are not even a minute fraction of the mass of our own 
> planet much less the massive amounts of material floating around in our 
> own solar system, or our entire galaxy, or the universe. How many 
> planetary systems are in each galaxy, and how much material is floating 
> around out there that we "don't" know about? How many unknown minerals, 
> and chemicals have we yet to discover? We're assuming that everything is 
> pretty much the same throughout the universe chemically. I ask you this. 
> How can we state that unequivocally? We can't.. There are billions of 
> species of life forms on out planet. How can we say with certainty that 
> there is nothing else out there? We can't.
> 
> We are the answer to our own question of whether life could survive in 
> the desolate universe. If we can survive, so can other life. There is NO 
> arguing that. If you believe in us, you MUST believe in other life out 
> there whether they be little green aliens or carbon based microbial 
> lifeforms or anything else we would define as life.
> 
> Our very existence proves it. Or does it? Can someone point out a flaw 
> in the logic of this thought process? Maybe this is linear thinking but 
> honestly maybe I'm too tired right now after being up all night and 
> can't think of one.
> 
> I'd be curious to see what people think about that.
> 
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From GeoZay at aol.com  Wed Sep  2 18:49:34 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 18:49:34 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Michael Bloods Meteorite Friends
Message-ID: <be5.5dc17a85.37d0507e@aol.com>


Hi all....once in a while I stroll thru the  various photos of Met List 
members on Michael bloods site. Its been awhile and  just noticed a lot of 
photo removals. Just curious as to what the general reason  was...Identity 
theft? :O)
GeoZay  



From fujmon at mac.com  Wed Sep  2 19:16:25 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 13:16:25 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Labor Day weekend sale
Message-ID: <C63A5CC8-00F5-4F1D-88DA-AC6E12EC92D1@mac.com>

To celebrate Labor Day and the long weekend, I have a couple of  
auctions running on ebay ending Saturday (1:05 pm PDT) and Sunday  
(6:43 pm PDT).  Up on the block are:

NWA 869 - cherry and oriented individuals
Brenham - 35g olivine packed partslice
HaH 244 - 21.6g fresh fusion crust rimmed full slice
Sah 02500 - 12.3g endcut, 31.88g individual
Bjurbole - 0.12g micro
SaU 001 - 60g individual
Henbury - 4.78g sculpted individual
Nadiabondi - 2.9g crusted individual from a rare fall
Holbrook - Perfect 1.1g full slice
Sulagiri - Crusted 1.09g partslice
Olivine Bomb - Split and polished half stones of green olivine

... and much more.  These are all top quality pieces that would make a  
great addition to your collection, with many starting at 99?

http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

Mahalo for looking!
Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From gmhupe at htn.net  Wed Sep  2 19:35:45 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:35:45 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Michael Bloods Meteorite Friends
References: <be5.5dc17a85.37d0507e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <192C34E34ED54B0FA6751682DB45F299@Gregor>

Hello GeoZay,

I thought the same thing today, but see he has a link for his original 
friends page which has the majority, if not all of his friends photos.

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <GeoZay at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 6:49 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Michael Bloods Meteorite Friends


>
> Hi all....once in a while I stroll thru the  various photos of Met List
> members on Michael bloods site. Its been awhile and  just noticed a lot of
> photo removals. Just curious as to what the general reason  was...Identity
> theft? :O)
> GeoZay
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Wed Sep  2 20:05:28 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:05:28 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw from Rob Matson: 2/9/2002 New England fireball
Message-ID: <F1B2434631BD4AA68659323F3787DDE8@ATARIENGINE2>

Rob Matson asked me to post this for him,
as he's where he can't post it himself.

Sterling Webb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi All,

I've been revisiting old fireballs for which
meteorites were never recovered, but that
had lots of witnesses, and based on those
reports were likely to have produced meteorites.
One very promising fall occurred in New
England on Saturday afternoon, February 9,
2002. It was observed and or heard by
dozens (if not hundreds) of people, but was
never found. This is not all that surprising
since there were no images or video recorded
of it. But there were sonic booms heard/felt
in Montgomery, Pittsfield, Northhampton,
Turners Falls, Amhurst and Wilbraham (all
in Massachusetts), and there were enough
witness observations that I was able to
bound the fall area.

What I *didn't* have back in 2002 was access
to Doppler radar data. Now, of course, I do,
and since the data is archived back into the
1990s, I went ahead and pulled the records
for the three nearest radars and searched
for transient anomalies. Good news: after
about an hour, I found it! And it's now clear
how meteorites from this fall could have avoided
accidental discovery in the intervening 7 1/2
years. The fall wasn't in a very populated area,
and it wasn't close to where you would think
to look if you were guided by the witness
observations alone.

If there is anyone in the New England area
that would like to try to track this down, just
float me an e-mail and I'll give you the particulars.
There are decent roads into the area, but the
terrain is forested and a little mountainous
(1000-2000'). Without the radar data, this
would be a hopeless area to search; but with it,
the search area is sufficiently small that a
concerted group effort has a chance of success.

--Rob 



From mlblood at cox.net  Wed Sep  2 20:57:50 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:57:50 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] more than   Famous words
In-Reply-To: <30777607.1251907671881.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <C6C4629E.7036%mlblood@cox.net>

Hay all,
        Why the TV and movie nostalgia on the meteorite
List? C'mon, this is  a METEORITE list.
        Don't get me wrong, I am a total movie geek, but this
Is not the place.
        Also, folks, if you change topics, DO NOT keep
The old "Subject Box" info the same as some previous
Topic. MANY of us will only read so many posts of a given
Topic and then just delete others.
        And while I am at it, DO NOT send private emails
With [Meteorite-list] in the Subject box!
        Now, all that being said.... Apparently I missed a post
With a link to a new Proud Tom web page - apparently
Lampooning Steve Arnold and Mike Farmer - Dirk told
Me about it, but said it is now already "down."
        Can anyone send me the downloaded pages (off
List, of course)?
        Thanks, Michael
PS: If anyone wants to put together a movie "list" I will
Be one of the first to sign up - just not here, please.


On 9/2/09 9:07 AM, "countdeiro at earthlink.net" <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Your right! Still LMAO at that. But, the line was taken from the much earlier,
> William Bendix TV character, Chester A. Riley in Life with Riley. That show
> had all of us in high school at the time (51-55) repeating it. Larry is the
> winner. I had Bendix, but blew the show..so he gets the meteorite.
> 
> Nice slide into second,
> 
> Count Deiro
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Matson, Robert D." <ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com>
>> Sent: Sep 2, 2009 11:37 AM
>> To: countdeiro at earthlink.net
>> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Famous words
>> 
>> Greetings Count!
>> I'll forward to you what I forwarded to Richard and others earlier:
>> Daffy Duck as Duck Dodgers in the 24th-and-a-half Century is the cartoon
>> character that Richard was thinking of:
>> 
>> Backup material:
>> 
>> http://www.stuporduck.com/sounds/DS174.wav
>> 
>> Whether this predates "Life with Father" is another matter, but
>> certainly
>> Daffy Duck is responsible for immortalizing the phrase in the minds of
>> today's 35-60 year olds.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Rob
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
>> countdeiro at earthlink.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:31 AM
>> To: Richard Kowalski; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Carl 's
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Famous words
>> 
>> Richard and List,
>> 
>> The character actor, famous in my time, William Bendix, star of the 50's
>> television show "Life with Father" originated and used as his signature
>> line " what a revoltin development " in every weekly episode.
>> 
>> I will bet a nice unclassified Nevada individual (recent find) against
>> whatever anyone wants to put up that I'm right. First person that proves
>> me wrong gets the prize. Proof has to be third party published material,
>> so we can all see it.
>> 
>> Have fun,
>> 
>> Count Deiro 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From mlblood at cox.net  Wed Sep  2 21:01:22 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:01:22 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] COME ON!  Alien Life Topic
In-Reply-To: <BLU125-W9AA323DB343653D2D43ADC9F00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C6C46372.7037%mlblood@cox.net>

PLEASE stop this Alian Live and Movies/TV
Crapolla on the METEORITE LIST.
        MLB


On 9/2/09 10:52 AM, "GREG LINDH" <geeg48 at msn.com> wrote:

> 
>  
>      Hi Phil,
>  
>   I pretty much agree with your post.  I believe most of those who don't
> believe in God, bow to the own god known as evolution.  They are
> determined....highly motivated to believe in evolution no matter what.
>   As for me, I look at the universe around me, from the macro to the micro,
> and all I see is an intricately *designed* universe.  I say this knowing that
> my statement doesn't help me here on "The List", and that you probably don't
> agree with me either.  It just makes me more of an outsider.
>   The fact is, I'm a Christian (OOhhhh NOOoooo, Greg, DON'T admit that!)  It
> get's even worse.  I retired from a ministry at San Quentin Prison, so my
> beliefs are strong....not stupid, just strong.
>   So, you may not believe in a deity, you may just see the weak arguments for
> evolution.  So do I.  I just go a step beyond that.  I see strong arguments
> for creation.
>   In any event, even though we may not be in complete agreement, I do
> appreciate your point of view.
>   I also very much appreciate your little reference to "The Day The Earth
> Stood Still". "Klaatu barada nikto", back at you.
>  
>   Greg Lindh  
>  
> 
>> From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:24:05 -0400
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Life Topic
>> 
>> Hi Kirk,
>> 
>> You do understand the difference between evidence and proof, do you not? No
>> one is denying the abundance of building blocks in comets and meteorites.
>> You can't swing a dead cat on a rope and not hit a building block. Amino
>> acids, glycine, phosphorus, carbon, water, you name it, it's everywhere,
>> but it's not alive. Mere organic compounds by themselves are not even close
>> to being live. And it's a huge gigantic step requiring more faith than I
>> can muster to believe that life is an inevitable consequence of the mere
>> presence of building blocks. If it were, there would be life on Mars, and
>> scientists would be routinely creating life in the laboratory. Did I miss
>> the headlines: "News Flash! Life Found On Mars!", or: "News Flash!
>> Scientist Creates Life In Laboratory!", or "News Flash!, Life Found In Outer
>> Space!" I think not.
>> 
>> The belief in aliens seems to be a crypto-religious form of group think,
>> much like the belief in angels. It's like a self replicating dogmatic meme,
>> that requires no proof, or even evidence. You can remove the concept of gods
>> from science, that's fine by me, just don't offer up Chance or Probability
>> Theory (all kneel!) as the new god and expect me to worship it.
>> 
>> Now proof of alien life would be when Klaatu lands his flying saucer on the
>> South Lawn of the Whitehouse and shares a Bud Light with Barack Obama and
>> Joe Biden.
>> 
>> Klaatu barada nikto,
>> 
>> Phil Whitmer
>> 
>> 
>> OK Phil & others----here is some of the PROOF that you wanted!!
>> Sounds pretty legit to me! Read the whole thing! Hmmmmm-----Sounds like my
>> post last week about amino acids coming from Comet & Meteorite impacts
>> bringing life to Earth from deep Space!
>> Time to eat some crow----eh??
>> Kirk.......:-)
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From mlblood at cox.net  Wed Sep  2 21:33:52 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 18:33:52 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Proud Tom Web site
In-Reply-To: <C6C4629E.7036%mlblood@cox.net>
Message-ID: <C6C46B10.7042%mlblood@cox.net>

Several people have contacted me saying if I did get access
To the Proud Tom site to please let them know. One even
Sent me the defunct site URL - apparently it was only up
Less than 24 hrs. Those that saw it thought it was hysterical.
        Tom, don't let us down - but it up again and tell us the
Site URL!!!!
        Thanks, Michael




From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep  2 21:45:50 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 18:45:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] freebies
Message-ID: <652733.63545.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi all.All 7 freebies are all gone.I had to wade thru 40 emails,but the first 7 got them.Just remember to send your address when they are announced.Also lets lose this stupid alien life thing.One of the most stupid threads I have ever seen on this list.Lets just do meteorites and thier related topics.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


      



From geeg48 at msn.com  Wed Sep  2 22:13:30 2009
From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 19:13:30 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] COME ON!  Alien Life Topic
In-Reply-To: <C6C46372.7037%mlblood@cox.net>
References: <BLU125-W9AA323DB343653D2D43ADC9F00@phx.gbl>
	<C6C46372.7037%mlblood@cox.net>
Message-ID: <BLU125-W266FEB3C02DDD3DFE3F069C9EF0@phx.gbl>


 
    Mike, 
 
  This "Alien Live" thread has been going on for a long, long time.  Did you protest this *off topic thread* before?  Why are you responding to me and my post?  I'm just a "Johnny come lately" in this discussion.  I finally just got sick and tired of the non-meteorite irrational posts, so I figured I might as well take an opposite stand in the discussion.
  Non-meteorite topics constantly come up on "The List".  I try to stay out of them, but when it just keeps going on and on, and the discussion is for the most part, one sided, I get a bit irritated.
  As I've written here on "The List" before, I'm more than willing to stick with discussing just meteorites.  However, I won't be the *only one* who has to abide by that rule.  If everyone would only write about meteorites, then you would NEVER see me go off topic.
 
  With respect,
 
  Greg Lindh
 


----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 18:01:22 -0700
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] COME ON! Alien Life Topic
> From: mlblood at cox.net
> To: geeg48 at msn.com; joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
> PLEASE stop this Alian Live and Movies/TV
> Crapolla on the METEORITE LIST.
> MLB
>
>
> On 9/2/09 10:52 AM, "GREG LINDH" wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Phil,
>>
>> I pretty much agree with your post. I believe most of those who don't
>> believe in God, bow to the own god known as evolution. They are
>> determined....highly motivated to believe in evolution no matter what.
>> As for me, I look at the universe around me, from the macro to the micro,
>> and all I see is an intricately *designed* universe. I say this knowing that
>> my statement doesn't help me here on "The List", and that you probably don't
>> agree with me either. It just makes me more of an outsider.
>> The fact is, I'm a Christian (OOhhhh NOOoooo, Greg, DON'T admit that!) It
>> get's even worse. I retired from a ministry at San Quentin Prison, so my
>> beliefs are strong....not stupid, just strong.
>> So, you may not believe in a deity, you may just see the weak arguments for
>> evolution. So do I. I just go a step beyond that. I see strong arguments
>> for creation.
>> In any event, even though we may not be in complete agreement, I do
>> appreciate your point of view.
>> I also very much appreciate your little reference to "The Day The Earth
>> Stood Still". "Klaatu barada nikto", back at you.
>>
>> Greg Lindh
>>
>>
>>> From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 11:24:05 -0400
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Life Topic
>>>
>>> Hi Kirk,
>>>
>>> You do understand the difference between evidence and proof, do you not? No
>>> one is denying the abundance of building blocks in comets and meteorites.
>>> You can't swing a dead cat on a rope and not hit a building block. Amino
>>> acids, glycine, phosphorus, carbon, water, you name it, it's everywhere,
>>> but it's not alive. Mere organic compounds by themselves are not even close
>>> to being live. And it's a huge gigantic step requiring more faith than I
>>> can muster to believe that life is an inevitable consequence of the mere
>>> presence of building blocks. If it were, there would be life on Mars, and
>>> scientists would be routinely creating life in the laboratory. Did I miss
>>> the headlines: "News Flash! Life Found On Mars!", or: "News Flash!
>>> Scientist Creates Life In Laboratory!", or "News Flash!, Life Found In Outer
>>> Space!" I think not.
>>>
>>> The belief in aliens seems to be a crypto-religious form of group think,
>>> much like the belief in angels. It's like a self replicating dogmatic meme,
>>> that requires no proof, or even evidence. You can remove the concept of gods
>>> from science, that's fine by me, just don't offer up Chance or Probability
>>> Theory (all kneel!) as the new god and expect me to worship it.
>>>
>>> Now proof of alien life would be when Klaatu lands his flying saucer on the
>>> South Lawn of the Whitehouse and shares a Bud Light with Barack Obama and
>>> Joe Biden.
>>>
>>> Klaatu barada nikto,
>>>
>>> Phil Whitmer
>>>
>>>
>>> OK Phil & others----here is some of the PROOF that you wanted!!
>>> Sounds pretty legit to me! Read the whole thing! Hmmmmm-----Sounds like my
>>> post last week about amino acids coming from Comet & Meteorite impacts
>>> bringing life to Earth from deep Space!
>>> Time to eat some crow----eh??
>>> Kirk.......:-)
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>

From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Wed Sep  2 22:34:46 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:34:46 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Canyon Diablo, Henbury, Boxhole
Message-ID: <c48.415b8038.37d08546@aol.com>

Clearing out some of my smaller specimens. These  are some of my first 
collected in 1997.
Sorry weights are not available on  all.
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/sale.html
More to be added  soon!
Thank you for  your time!

__________________________

Michael  Johnson
http://www.spacerocksinc.com
http://www.rocksfromspace.org
http://www.sikhote-alin.org   



From pshugar at clearwire.net  Wed Sep  2 22:55:35 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 21:55:35 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list
Message-ID: <B795E5B4E51240D7BE8A027B29DA3C76@laptop>

Has anyone noticed just how many have been leaving the list 
in the last few weeks?
I have to wonder what might be the reason for all these departures.
I certainly hope that all the bickering has not driven them off.
Pete



From gmhupe at htn.net  Wed Sep  2 23:00:26 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 23:00:26 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list
References: <B795E5B4E51240D7BE8A027B29DA3C76@laptop>
Message-ID: <B09EC371C6AC4A19B2099FE1B60D1714@Gregor>

Hello Pete and List,

Pete wrote:
"Has anyone noticed just how many have been leaving the list
 in the last few weeks?
I have to wonder what might be the reason for all these departures.
I certainly hope that all the bickering has not driven them off."

More likely the Off Topic threads like Aliens and other junk, but then 
again, the crazies on the List don't help either!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pete Shugar" <pshugar at clearwire.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:55 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list


> Has anyone noticed just how many have been leaving the list in the last 
> few weeks?
> I have to wonder what might be the reason for all these departures.
> I certainly hope that all the bickering has not driven them off.
> Pete
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Wed Sep  2 23:22:25 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 23:22:25 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 3,
	2009
Message-ID: <c83.4571e0a9.37d09071@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_3_2009.html


----  



From info at mcomemeteorite.it  Thu Sep  3 00:13:00 2009
From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 06:13:00 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Michael Bloods Meteorite Friends
Message-ID: <4a9f424c.363.acf.1203257272@webmaildh3.aruba.it>

probably why he have publicized a idiot site type the proud
tom site.

Matteo

----- Original Message -----
Da : GeoZay at aol.com
A : meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Oggetto : [meteorite-list] Michael Bloods Meteorite Friends
Data : Wed, 2 Sep 2009 18:49:34 EDT

> Hi all....once in a while I stroll thru the  various
> photos of Met List  members on Michael bloods site. Its
> been awhile and  just noticed a lot of  photo removals.
> Just curious as to what the general reason  was...Identity
> theft? :O)
> GeoZay  
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

M come Meteorite Meteoriti
info at mcomemeteorite.it
http://www.mcomemeteorite.it
http://www.mcomemeteorite.org
Mindat Gallery
http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html
ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici
http://www.chinellatophoto.com


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep  3 00:45:22 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 23:45:22 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] COME ON!  Alien Life Topic
References: <C6C46372.7037%mlblood@cox.net>
Message-ID: <08553EF9518C47FFB28AB573FDC2F036@ATARIENGINE2>

Michael, List,

    I completely agree that the occasional movie
reference is non-meteoritic (unless the movie is
about meteors, asteroids and such), but the 
connection between meteorites and life that 
may exist off this planet is as intertwined as
any two topics could be.

    The hypothesis that meteorites could bring 
life (or alien life) to Earth is almost as old as 
the recognition that meteorites actually do fall 
from the sky. In 1864, Louis Pasteur performed
careful experimentation to extract, without 
contamination, a sample from the depths of 
the Orgueil meteorite to culture for micro-organisms.
He did so because he was searching for an
alternate origin for life on Earth in distinction
to spontaneous generation, which he had already
disproved in his laboratory.

    The result of his search for microbes in Orgeil 
was negative, BTW.

    Every few decades there is a meteorite-life
issue that becomes a matter of hot dispute in
science and the broader world. The latest was 
the Martian meteorite with traces of microbial 
life, or was there? There were many hundreds 
of posts on this List to one side or the other as
that dispute raged on.

    It's an on-going debate. (There was another 
claim of fossils in Orgueil in 2004!) The entire 
question of the existence of any life off this
planet is germane to meteorites even if specific
meteoritic evidence is not in question. The two
subjects are intimately related. IF there is any
other life, meteorites would potentially present 
the easiest evidence to access and the only 
samples of "otherworldly" matter that we have. 
If there is no life (as has been alleged in these 
posts), much research on meteorites is being 
wasted.

    We all have to recognize that everyone of us
brings a different perspective to the subject of
meteorites. For example, the question of whether
or not a particular meteorite was or was not a
"hammer" is of only the mildest scientific interest,
being a purely anecdotal matter, and is largely 
irrelevant.

    However, it is to be recognized that that subject
is of great interest in the arcana of collectorship
and highly important to some (but not to others).
However, since all of us DO bring a different 
perspective to the subject, it would be, well,
impolite, for those who are less interested to tell 
those that are most interested to stop posting 
about it. Likewise, the long sequences of Posts 
about the cost per gram of this or that stone -- it's 
like listening to the farmers down at the round
table at the Chatterbox Cafe talk about the price 
of corn or hogs -- intensely interesting if you 
sell corn or hogs, but if not it's just fatback talk...

    This is not the Meteorite Collectors' List, nor
the Meteorite Commerce List, nor the Meteorite 
Market List, nor the Meteorite Hunter's List, nor
the Meteorite Trade and Freebies List, nor the 
Meteorite Impact List, not the Meteorite Crater 
List, nor the Meteorite History List, nor the 
Meteorite Stamp and Coin List, nor the Meteor 
Shower List, nor the Meteorite People List, nor 
the Meteorite Theoretical Science List, nor the
Meteorite Petrology List, nor the Asteroid List, 
the Planetary List, the Interstellar Dust List, 
nor the Alien Life List, nor even The Meteorite 
Quibble List --- it's ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

    It's the Meteorite [Inclusive] List, and it's far
better off for being what it is than if it were too
narrowly defined, maddening as it may be at
times.


Sterling K. Webb
-----------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
To: "GREG LINDH" <geeg48 at msn.com>; <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
Cc: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] COME ON! Alien Life Topic


> PLEASE stop this Alian Live and Movies/TV
> Crapolla on the METEORITE LIST.
>        MLB
> 



From pshugar at clearwire.net  Thu Sep  3 00:56:55 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 23:56:55 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] comedy
Message-ID: <BA5217236BAE4AC7A6942E10B4CC886B@laptop>

Oh great meteorite, I offer up to this great piece of fusion crust
as a sacrifice of thanks for sending my copy of Meteorite Magazine.
I will offer up an even better piece if you send my Authors copy to me so I 
can give it to the school principal.
Pete
IMCA 1733 



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Sep  3 01:26:53 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 2009 22:26:53 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list - Aliens Did It!
In-Reply-To: <B09EC371C6AC4A19B2099FE1B60D1714@Gregor>
References: <B795E5B4E51240D7BE8A027B29DA3C76@laptop>
	<B09EC371C6AC4A19B2099FE1B60D1714@Gregor>
Message-ID: <4A9F539D.1000402@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi Everyone,

With all due respect to all. This list has ONE forum. Almost ALL forums 
online have many forum categories, and most have an off-topic category 
forum for people to communicate their opinions and discuss off-topic 
posts. It keeps the community whole and gives members who wish to 
discuss off-topic issues, a choice. In other words you still do have a 
choice. Read the post or hit your delete key.

The "Alien Life" thread is in fact either indirectly or possibly 
directly related to meteorites, and therefore VERY worthy of this list. 
Anyone who'd like to argue that notion should reconsider their own 
understanding of what the study of meteorites truly means and their own 
list membership. By complaining about seemingly off-topic posts in 
regards to aliens people are in effect saying they don't want to learn 
about their universe. Sorry if that seems harsh, but I've seen a lot 
worse things on this list than the serious philosophical and 
scientifically educated discussions of the possibility of life elsewhere 
in the universe.

I for one would much rather discuss seriously the alien life subject in 
relationship to the studies being performed on meteorites, and the 
evidence being found within them that support the notion of life 
elsewhere, rather than be a part of a forum who speaks unintelligently 
about alien abduction, or close encounters and UFO sightings.

Besides, the whole reason behind the study of meteorites in the first 
place is to learn MORE about our universe, and this CERTAINLY includes 
the search for extraterrestrial life and in fact could center on it. 
Those who would argue that scientific and logical discussion about the 
possibilities of life elsewhere in our universe based on the connection 
between that life and meteorites is somehow "Not Worthy" and "Off-Topic" 
is somehow not entirely fair or correct.

It doesn't have to be a discussion about little green men, it has to do 
with the study of meteorites and the real possibility of 
extraterrestrial life, and the direct connections with meteorites if any 
that exist.

To deny that is simply akin to an ostrich sticking it's head in the sand.

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA




From rsvp321 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  3 03:21:46 2009
From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 03:21:46 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list - Aliens Did It!
In-Reply-To: <4A9F539D.1000402@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <B795E5B4E51240D7BE8A027B29DA3C76@laptop>
	<B09EC371C6AC4A19B2099FE1B60D1714@Gregor> 
	<4A9F539D.1000402@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W11C464056EABE1A1E20F1BF8EF0@phx.gbl>


 
Two words: Panspermia Theory.


----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:26:53 -0700
> From: eric at meteoritesusa.com
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list - Aliens Did It!
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> With all due respect to all. This list has ONE forum. Almost ALL forums
> online have many forum categories, and most have an off-topic category
> forum for people to communicate their opinions and discuss off-topic
> posts. It keeps the community whole and gives members who wish to
> discuss off-topic issues, a choice. In other words you still do have a
> choice. Read the post or hit your delete key.
>
> The "Alien Life" thread is in fact either indirectly or possibly
> directly related to meteorites, and therefore VERY worthy of this list.
> Anyone who'd like to argue that notion should reconsider their own
> understanding of what the study of meteorites truly means and their own
> list membership. By complaining about seemingly off-topic posts in
> regards to aliens people are in effect saying they don't want to learn
> about their universe. Sorry if that seems harsh, but I've seen a lot
> worse things on this list than the serious philosophical and
> scientifically educated discussions of the possibility of life elsewhere
> in the universe.
>
> I for one would much rather discuss seriously the alien life subject in
> relationship to the studies being performed on meteorites, and the
> evidence being found within them that support the notion of life
> elsewhere, rather than be a part of a forum who speaks unintelligently
> about alien abduction, or close encounters and UFO sightings.
>
> Besides, the whole reason behind the study of meteorites in the first
> place is to learn MORE about our universe, and this CERTAINLY includes
> the search for extraterrestrial life and in fact could center on it.
> Those who would argue that scientific and logical discussion about the
> possibilities of life elsewhere in our universe based on the connection
> between that life and meteorites is somehow "Not Worthy" and "Off-Topic"
> is somehow not entirely fair or correct.
>
> It doesn't have to be a discussion about little green men, it has to do
> with the study of meteorites and the real possibility of
> extraterrestrial life, and the direct connections with meteorites if any
> that exist.
>
> To deny that is simply akin to an ostrich sticking it's head in the sand.
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
_________________________________________________________________
New! Faster Messenger access on the new MSN homepage
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677406

From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Sep  3 03:55:28 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 00:55:28 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list - Aliens Did It!
In-Reply-To: <BAY141-W11C464056EABE1A1E20F1BF8EF0@phx.gbl>
References: <B795E5B4E51240D7BE8A027B29DA3C76@laptop>	<B09EC371C6AC4A19B2099FE1B60D1714@Gregor>
	<4A9F539D.1000402@meteoritesusa.com>
	<BAY141-W11C464056EABE1A1E20F1BF8EF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4A9F7670.6000907@meteoritesusa.com>

Not quite what I was referring to... But Panspermia is a valid theory 
nonetheless.

Regards,
Eric




Pete Pete wrote:
>  
> Two words: Panspermia Theory.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
>   
>> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 22:26:53 -0700
>> From: eric at meteoritesusa.com
>> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list - Aliens Did It!
>>
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> With all due respect to all. This list has ONE forum. Almost ALL forums
>> online have many forum categories, and most have an off-topic category
>> forum for people to communicate their opinions and discuss off-topic
>> posts. It keeps the community whole and gives members who wish to
>> discuss off-topic issues, a choice. In other words you still do have a
>> choice. Read the post or hit your delete key.
>>
>> The "Alien Life" thread is in fact either indirectly or possibly
>> directly related to meteorites, and therefore VERY worthy of this list.
>> Anyone who'd like to argue that notion should reconsider their own
>> understanding of what the study of meteorites truly means and their own
>> list membership. By complaining about seemingly off-topic posts in
>> regards to aliens people are in effect saying they don't want to learn
>> about their universe. Sorry if that seems harsh, but I've seen a lot
>> worse things on this list than the serious philosophical and
>> scientifically educated discussions of the possibility of life elsewhere
>> in the universe.
>>
>> I for one would much rather discuss seriously the alien life subject in
>> relationship to the studies being performed on meteorites, and the
>> evidence being found within them that support the notion of life
>> elsewhere, rather than be a part of a forum who speaks unintelligently
>> about alien abduction, or close encounters and UFO sightings.
>>
>> Besides, the whole reason behind the study of meteorites in the first
>> place is to learn MORE about our universe, and this CERTAINLY includes
>> the search for extraterrestrial life and in fact could center on it.
>> Those who would argue that scientific and logical discussion about the
>> possibilities of life elsewhere in our universe based on the connection
>> between that life and meteorites is somehow "Not Worthy" and "Off-Topic"
>> is somehow not entirely fair or correct.
>>
>> It doesn't have to be a discussion about little green men, it has to do
>> with the study of meteorites and the real possibility of
>> extraterrestrial life, and the direct connections with meteorites if any
>> that exist.
>>
>> To deny that is simply akin to an ostrich sticking it's head in the sand.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric Wichman
>> Meteorites USA
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>     
> _________________________________________________________________
> New! Faster Messenger access on the new MSN homepage
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677406
>   



From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com  Thu Sep  3 04:40:46 2009
From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 09:40:46 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Proud Tom Web site
In-Reply-To: <C6C46B10.7042%mlblood@cox.net>
References: <C6C4629E.7036%mlblood@cox.net> <C6C46B10.7042%mlblood@cox.net>
Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C497248AC@gamma.ssl.atw>

Sorry but the alien topic is far more constructive than 'proud bloody
tom'


M.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. 

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From zneutronz at aol.com  Thu Sep  3 05:06:17 2009
From: zneutronz at aol.com (zneutronz at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 05:06:17 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA4483 lunar meteorite for sale
Message-ID: <8CBFA8CEE50017A-35B0-E3B4@webmail-d029.sysops.aol.com>

hi friends !

for sale :

beautiful endcut of nwa4483,       5.612g,     lunar granulitic

for pictures please contact me ! make me a fair offer !

thanks,

oliver

imca #6131


From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Thu Sep  3 05:13:22 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:13:22 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list
In-Reply-To: <B795E5B4E51240D7BE8A027B29DA3C76@laptop>
Message-ID: <20090903101322.O0P5O.272913.root@web08-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi Pete, All,

Yes I have noticed that. This year I spoke to several folks interested in meteorites who had joined on my recommendation and I am actually embarrassed now as the quality of discussion has deteriorated badly. I have taken part for years but recently 90% of posts are just wearing out my delete key!

Graham Ensor, UK

---- Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net> wrote: 
> Has anyone noticed just how many have been leaving the list 
> in the last few weeks?
> I have to wonder what might be the reason for all these departures.
> I certainly hope that all the bickering has not driven them off.
> Pete
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  3 08:50:14 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 05:50:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list
In-Reply-To: <B09EC371C6AC4A19B2099FE1B60D1714@Gregor>
Message-ID: <711326.23187.qm@web33205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

the list only has about 1-2k members, the above top secret site has around 35k members. off topic discussions have nothing to do with people leaving the list! Dissing people and intimidation by egghead geeks who think they know everything is what is driving people away from the list! I am betting nearly everyone on the list has a college education! if you have something to say that is negative to a member say it off list! Meteorics is a small world! and it has a large learning curve too.
  If you all showed some sympathy and used the list to educate rather than castrate! it would be growing!
enough said
Steve

--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:

> From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list
> To: "Pete Shugar" <pshugar at clearwire.net>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 10:00 PM
> Hello Pete and List,
> 
> Pete wrote:
> "Has anyone noticed just how many have been leaving the
> list
> in the last few weeks?
> I have to wonder what might be the reason for all these
> departures.
> I certainly hope that all the bickering has not driven them
> off."
> 
> More likely the Off Topic threads like Aliens and other
> junk, but then again, the crazies on the List don't help
> either!
> 
> Best regards,
> Greg
> 
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Shugar" <pshugar at clearwire.net>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:55 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list
> 
> 
> > Has anyone noticed just how many have been leaving the
> list in the last few weeks?
> > I have to wonder what might be the reason for all
> these departures.
> > I certainly hope that all the bickering has not driven
> them off.
> > Pete
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From bandk at chorus.net  Thu Sep  3 08:55:59 2009
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 07:55:59 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list
References: <711326.23187.qm@web33205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1A23C9E014C54E12A1899E4C23491B84@owner55652f88b>

Well said Steve! I agree with you 100%
Kirk.....
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
To: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list


> the list only has about 1-2k members, the above top secret site has around 
> 35k members. off topic discussions have nothing to do with people leaving 
> the list! Dissing people and intimidation by egghead geeks who think they 
> know everything is what is driving people away from the list! I am betting 
> nearly everyone on the list has a college education! if you have something 
> to say that is negative to a member say it off list! Meteorics is a small 
> world! and it has a large learning curve too.
>  If you all showed some sympathy and used the list to educate rather than 
> castrate! it would be growing!
> enough said
> Steve
>
> --- On Wed, 9/2/09, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list
>> To: "Pete Shugar" <pshugar at clearwire.net>, 
>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 10:00 PM
>> Hello Pete and List,
>>
>> Pete wrote:
>> "Has anyone noticed just how many have been leaving the
>> list
>> in the last few weeks?
>> I have to wonder what might be the reason for all these
>> departures.
>> I certainly hope that all the bickering has not driven them
>> off."
>>
>> More likely the Off Topic threads like Aliens and other
>> junk, but then again, the crazies on the List don't help
>> either!
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> ====================
>> Greg Hupe
>> The Hupe Collection
>> NaturesVault (eBay)
>> gmhupe at htn.net
>> www.LunarRock.com
>> IMCA 3163
>> ====================
>> Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Shugar" <pshugar at clearwire.net>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 10:55 PM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list
>>
>>
>> > Has anyone noticed just how many have been leaving the
>> list in the last few weeks?
>> > I have to wonder what might be the reason for all
>> these departures.
>> > I certainly hope that all the bickering has not driven
>> them off.
>> > Pete
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  3 10:06:00 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 07:06:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Main Masses and Other Great Items - The Best!
Message-ID: <836149.29041.qm@web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,

I have several great auctions with the make offer 
or buy-it-now option that are due to end tomorrow so take a 
look if you are 
interested in some great specimens.  There are some gorgeous specimens including 
several main masses!  I will consider offers and answer questions this evening 
when I return.

All Auctions Can Be Found At This link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ

Planetary 
Material - Do not be afraid to make reasonable offers:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200370667680
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140338070815
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140338071061
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140338071406
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200370670793
 
Very Rare NWA 2626 Martian MAIN MASS- Priced Below My Costs:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200374037684
 
Rare Achondrites:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140338072641 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200370673404
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200370674002
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200374036148
 
Rare Stony Irons - Gorgeous Specimens:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200374038314 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200374038095
 
Rare Chondrites:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200374037865 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140338072961
 
Unclassified Beauties:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200370675854 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140338075184
 

And many more examples worth looking at can be found at this 
link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ


Thank 
you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck.


Best 
Regards,

------------------------------------
Adam Hupe
The Hupe 
Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
raremeteorites at yahoo.com 


From stlouismeteorites at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 10:35:31 2009
From: stlouismeteorites at gmail.com (Karl Aston)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 09:35:31 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ash Creek (West), TX meteorites for sale
Message-ID: <34c0c5310909030735r652e42c6qd3e727284ff3b065@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List,

I've got a good selection of Ash Creek, TX meteorites for sale from
11g to 94 g.  Additional photos and info available.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40582027 at N07/sets/72157621661286878/

Karl


From info at mineralesyfosiles.com.ar  Thu Sep  3 09:40:09 2009
From: info at mineralesyfosiles.com.ar (Eduardo)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 10:40:09 -0300
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad: Ebay auctions ending tomorrow
Message-ID: <B0000043436@webmail.abaco.net.ar>



-----Original Message-----
From: "Eduardo" <info at mineralesyfosiles.com.ar>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:10:56 -0300
Subject: Ad: Ebay auctions ending tomorrow

 Hi
I have over 65 auctions ending tomorrow. Most of them started at $0.99 adn
many still at that price.
 
Take a look at http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZsmfmeteoritesQQhtZ-1

Just to mention a few:
La Criolla, Covert, Dhofar 007, Tatahouine, Viedma, San Juan, Wiluna,
Capot Rey, Tafassasset, Camel Donga, Brenham, Huckitta, Glorieta Mountain,
Sikhote Alin, and many more

hope to see you there

Eduardo



From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Sep  3 12:27:53 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:27:53 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Six-year old finds meteorwrong follup
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130908282308ndbe37eax7ac34f52f5d42460@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0a794130908282308ndbe37eax7ac34f52f5d42460@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6irv95hgenk6aiomq36c74rkkh5i25aqb8@4ax.com>

Long story short, Rob Elliot gave the kid a real one.

http://www.thisisnorthdevon.co.uk/news/Josh-receives-heavenly-gift-meteorite-collector/article-1304237-detail/article.html


From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Thu Sep  3 11:27:17 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:27:17 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list - Aliens Did It!
Message-ID: <65D2A1356BAF41FCAF349990EAF69291@ET>

Pete:

I used to entertain notions of Panspermia, before I lost my religion 
(concerning outer space intelligent life).  I don't think there are enough 
particles of matter to support the Brownian Motion necessary to move the 
spores or sperm or dna or what have you.  Maybe here in our Local 
Neighborhood, but probably not in intergalactic space.  Only a small 
percentage of matter as we know it  is out there.  Unless you get Brownian 
Motion from dark matter, dark energy, antimatter, or whatever that stuff is 
out there.



Eric & Sterling:  I agree with you 125% on the topicality of the question of 
the existence of outer space life.

If you don't like the topic du jour,  instead of yelping like a wounded 
beagle, why not just start a new thread that is so totally awesome that 
everyone starts discussing it instead.

Phil Whitmer

Two words: Panspermia Theory. 



From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Sep  3 13:23:57 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 12:23:57 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list
In-Reply-To: <1A23C9E014C54E12A1899E4C23491B84@owner55652f88b>
References: <711326.23187.qm@web33205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<1A23C9E014C54E12A1899E4C23491B84@owner55652f88b>
Message-ID: <fftv959pss6jsm29rnkbq6r1762sn8amd0@4ax.com>

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009 07:55:59 -0500, you wrote:

>Well said Steve! I agree with you 100%
>Kirk.....
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
>
>> the list! Dissing people and intimidation by egghead geeks who think they 
>> know everything is what is driving people away from the list! I am betting 
>> nearly everyone on the list has a college education! if you have something 
>> to say that is negative to a member say it off list! Meteorics is a small 
>> world! and it has a large learning curve too.
>>  If you all showed some sympathy and used the list to educate rather than 
>> castrate! it would be growing!
>> enough said

In defense of the list (and myself, who is your likely target) I seem to recall
that the list members are almost universally polite and patient with newcomers
asking what to us are "old" questions, and someone usually takes the time to
patiently and clearly answer those questions.  It is only when the newcomers,
once their questions have been answered, continue to argue over and over for
their own misconceptions as being right and the answerers as being wrong that
the kid gloves come off.   In other words, being ignorant isn't treated as a
"crime" here-- being an idiot is.

The "egghead geeks" part sounds like good old-fashioned American
anti-intellectualism.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism

If I was wanting only to be a jerk, I'd post a link like this:

http://tinyurl.com/n83fhp


From cmcdon0923 at aol.com  Thu Sep  3 12:29:49 2009
From: cmcdon0923 at aol.com (cmcdon0923 at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 12:29:49 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Six-year old finds meteorwrong follup
In-Reply-To: <mailman.27.1251993634.66510.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.27.1251993634.66510.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <8CBFACAE4306657-400C-12A9C@webmail-d023.sysops.aol.com>

A true class act and a great guy !!!





Message: 4
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:27:53 -0500
From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Six-year old finds meteorwrong follup
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID: <6irv95hgenk6aiomq36c74rkkh5i25aqb8 at 4ax.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Long story short, Rob Elliot gave the kid a real one.

http://www.thisisnorthdevon.co.uk/news/Josh-receives-heavenly-gift-meteorite-collector/article-1304237-detail/article.html


------------------------------






From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Thu Sep  3 12:57:08 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 12:57:08 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Station Visible To Naked Eye In Days Ahead
Message-ID: <9A216A8268314F2DA254E11053FE313B@ET>



Space station will be visible to naked eye in days ahead
By MEG MIRSHAK
Tribune Staff Writer

Michiana residents have a rare opportunity to see a spaceship in the sky 
during the upcoming week.

The international space station, in orbit 250 miles above the Earth, will be 
visible to those looking upward in the area.

"It will look like a very, very bright star, similar to what Venus looks 
like in the morning," said Art Klinger, director of the Penn-Harris-Madison 
School Corp. Planetarium in Mishawaka.


The round, bright light will be visible for only about two to five minutes 
each day until Sept. 10, Klinger said. Scientists believe the shining light 
should be at optimal viewing here Tuesday when it passes directly overhead 
with its brightest magnitude for five minutes, he said.

"It should be dazzling," Klinger said. "Anybody can see it. You just have to 
step outside and look."

The space shuttle Discovery is currently docked on the space station, he 
said.

Indiana native and Notre Dame alumnus Kevin A. Ford is piloting the mission 
launched Aug. 28.

Ford, 49, is from Montpelier, Ind., north of Muncie.

He requested the shuttle crew's wake-up call from Houston be the Indiana 
University fight song Tuesday morning, in honor of his late brother, IU 
alumnus and former state Sen. David Ford.

"Good morning, Houston," Kevin Ford said from aboard Discovery after hearing 
the song. "Thank you for the wake-up music. That song reminds me of my 
wonderful home state of Indiana ... also reminds me of my oldest brother, 
David, who was the first one to ever strap me in to the cockpit of an 
airplane."

Sunlight reflecting off the space station makes the orbiter visible with the 
naked eye, but using binoculars allows one to more clearly discern the 
shape, Klinger said.

"With a telescope, one might even be able to see the shuttle attached, " he 
said.

Space station visibility depends on the Earth's rotation, and Michiana is 
positioned for the space station to move directly overhead this week, 
Klinger said. Other times it can be viewed low in the sky for a shorter 
period of time, he said.

Staff writer Meg Mirshak:
mmirshak at sbtinfo.com

Viewing the space station
P-H-M Planetarium Director Art Klinger said the space station can be viewed 
with the naked eye during clear weather this week. Look for a bright light 
rising in the southwest.

-This morning from 5:56 to 6.

-Friday from 6:22 to 6:24 a.m.

-Saturday for less than a minute at 9:36 p.m.

-Sunday from 10 to 10:02 p.m.

-Monday from 8:50 to 8:55 p.m. and 10:25 to 10:27 p.m.

-Sept. 8 from 9:15 to 9:20 p.m.

-Sept. 9 from 9:40 to 9:44 p.m.

-Sept. 10 from 8:29 to 8:35 p.m. and from 10:05 to 10:08 p.m.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What are the best times?
The light should shine brightest on Sept. 8 and around 8:30 p.m. Sept. 10.

http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20090903/News01/909030351/1129/News

Don't blink or you might miss it!
Phil Whitmer 



From astroroks at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  3 13:17:07 2009
From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 12:17:07 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Station Visible To Naked Eye In Days
 Ahead
In-Reply-To: <9A216A8268314F2DA254E11053FE313B@ET>
References: <9A216A8268314F2DA254E11053FE313B@ET>
Message-ID: <COL113-W24527DBDF3C6A175192369B1EF0@phx.gbl>


A great website to check your location's ISS sightings, updated reguraly...
 
http://spaceflight1.nasa.gov/realdata/sightings/
 
Dennis
 

> From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 12:57:08 -0400
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Station Visible To Naked Eye In Days Ahead
> 
> 
> 
> Space station will be visible to naked eye in days ahead
> By MEG MIRSHAK
> Tribune Staff Writer
> 
> Michiana residents have a rare opportunity to see a spaceship in the sky 
> during the upcoming week.
> 
> The international space station, in orbit 250 miles above the Earth, will be 
> visible to those looking upward in the area.
> 
> "It will look like a very, very bright star, similar to what Venus looks 
> like in the morning," said Art Klinger, director of the Penn-Harris-Madison 
> School Corp. Planetarium in Mishawaka.
> 
> 
> The round, bright light will be visible for only about two to five minutes 
> each day until Sept. 10, Klinger said. Scientists believe the shining light 
> should be at optimal viewing here Tuesday when it passes directly overhead 
> with its brightest magnitude for five minutes, he said.
> 
> "It should be dazzling," Klinger said. "Anybody can see it. You just have to 
> step outside and look."
> 
> The space shuttle Discovery is currently docked on the space station, he 
> said.
> 
> Indiana native and Notre Dame alumnus Kevin A. Ford is piloting the mission 
> launched Aug. 28.
> 
> Ford, 49, is from Montpelier, Ind., north of Muncie.
> 
> He requested the shuttle crew's wake-up call from Houston be the Indiana 
> University fight song Tuesday morning, in honor of his late brother, IU 
> alumnus and former state Sen. David Ford.
> 
> "Good morning, Houston," Kevin Ford said from aboard Discovery after hearing 
> the song. "Thank you for the wake-up music. That song reminds me of my 
> wonderful home state of Indiana ... also reminds me of my oldest brother, 
> David, who was the first one to ever strap me in to the cockpit of an 
> airplane."
> 
> Sunlight reflecting off the space station makes the orbiter visible with the 
> naked eye, but using binoculars allows one to more clearly discern the 
> shape, Klinger said.
> 
> "With a telescope, one might even be able to see the shuttle attached, " he 
> said.
> 
> Space station visibility depends on the Earth's rotation, and Michiana is 
> positioned for the space station to move directly overhead this week, 
> Klinger said. Other times it can be viewed low in the sky for a shorter 
> period of time, he said.
> 
> Staff writer Meg Mirshak:
> mmirshak at sbtinfo.com
> 
> Viewing the space station
> P-H-M Planetarium Director Art Klinger said the space station can be viewed 
> with the naked eye during clear weather this week. Look for a bright light 
> rising in the southwest.
> 
> -This morning from 5:56 to 6.
> 
> -Friday from 6:22 to 6:24 a.m.
> 
> -Saturday for less than a minute at 9:36 p.m.
> 
> -Sunday from 10 to 10:02 p.m.
> 
> -Monday from 8:50 to 8:55 p.m. and 10:25 to 10:27 p.m.
> 
> -Sept. 8 from 9:15 to 9:20 p.m.
> 
> -Sept. 9 from 9:40 to 9:44 p.m.
> 
> -Sept. 10 from 8:29 to 8:35 p.m. and from 10:05 to 10:08 p.m.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> What are the best times?
> The light should shine brightest on Sept. 8 and around 8:30 p.m. Sept. 10.
> 
> http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20090903/News01/909030351/1129/News
> 
> Don't blink or you might miss it!
> Phil Whitmer 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. 
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009

From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Sep  3 14:30:23 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 13:30:23 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Station Visible To Naked Eye In Days
	Ahead
In-Reply-To: <9A216A8268314F2DA254E11053FE313B@ET>
References: <9A216A8268314F2DA254E11053FE313B@ET>
Message-ID: <oo20a5llej7qpfo6evdr8so1ulogpnli2h@4ax.com>

Here's the latest telescopic photo of the ISS:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/09/01/spectacular-new-iss-picture-from-the-ground/


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  3 14:13:28 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:13:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Station Visible To Naked Eye In Days
	Ahead
In-Reply-To: <COL113-W24527DBDF3C6A175192369B1EF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <926872.63430.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Another great site, not just for ISS visibility but for multiple satellites, including HST & Iridium flare predictions is

Heavens Above

http://www.heavens-above.com


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Thu, 9/3/09, Dennis Miller <astroroks at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Dennis Miller <astroroks at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space Station Visible To Naked Eye In Days Ahead
> To: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 10:17 AM
> 
> A great website to check your location's ISS sightings,
> updated reguraly...
>  
> http://spaceflight1.nasa.gov/realdata/sightings/
>  
> Dennis
>  
> 
> > From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 12:57:08 -0400
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Station Visible To
> Naked Eye In Days Ahead
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Space station will be visible to naked eye in days
> ahead
> > By MEG MIRSHAK
> > Tribune Staff Writer
> > 
> > Michiana residents have a rare opportunity to see a
> spaceship in the sky 
> > during the upcoming week.
> > 
> > The international space station, in orbit 250 miles
> above the Earth, will be 
> > visible to those looking upward in the area.
> > 
> > "It will look like a very, very bright star, similar
> to what Venus looks 
> > like in the morning," said Art Klinger, director of
> the Penn-Harris-Madison 
> > School Corp. Planetarium in Mishawaka.
> > 
> > 
> > The round, bright light will be visible for only about
> two to five minutes 
> > each day until Sept. 10, Klinger said. Scientists
> believe the shining light 
> > should be at optimal viewing here Tuesday when it
> passes directly overhead 
> > with its brightest magnitude for five minutes, he
> said.
> > 
> > "It should be dazzling," Klinger said. "Anybody can
> see it. You just have to 
> > step outside and look."
> > 
> > The space shuttle Discovery is currently docked on the
> space station, he 
> > said.
> > 
> > Indiana native and Notre Dame alumnus Kevin A. Ford is
> piloting the mission 
> > launched Aug. 28.
> > 
> > Ford, 49, is from Montpelier, Ind., north of Muncie.
> > 
> > He requested the shuttle crew's wake-up call from
> Houston be the Indiana 
> > University fight song Tuesday morning, in honor of his
> late brother, IU 
> > alumnus and former state Sen. David Ford.
> > 
> > "Good morning, Houston," Kevin Ford said from aboard
> Discovery after hearing 
> > the song. "Thank you for the wake-up music. That song
> reminds me of my 
> > wonderful home state of Indiana ... also reminds me of
> my oldest brother, 
> > David, who was the first one to ever strap me in to
> the cockpit of an 
> > airplane."
> > 
> > Sunlight reflecting off the space station makes the
> orbiter visible with the 
> > naked eye, but using binoculars allows one to more
> clearly discern the 
> > shape, Klinger said.
> > 
> > "With a telescope, one might even be able to see the
> shuttle attached, " he 
> > said.
> > 
> > Space station visibility depends on the Earth's
> rotation, and Michiana is 
> > positioned for the space station to move directly
> overhead this week, 
> > Klinger said. Other times it can be viewed low in the
> sky for a shorter 
> > period of time, he said.
> > 
> > Staff writer Meg Mirshak:
> > mmirshak at sbtinfo.com
> > 
> > Viewing the space station
> > P-H-M Planetarium Director Art Klinger said the space
> station can be viewed 
> > with the naked eye during clear weather this week.
> Look for a bright light 
> > rising in the southwest.
> > 
> > -This morning from 5:56 to 6.
> > 
> > -Friday from 6:22 to 6:24 a.m.
> > 
> > -Saturday for less than a minute at 9:36 p.m.
> > 
> > -Sunday from 10 to 10:02 p.m.
> > 
> > -Monday from 8:50 to 8:55 p.m. and 10:25 to 10:27
> p.m.
> > 
> > -Sept. 8 from 9:15 to 9:20 p.m.
> > 
> > -Sept. 9 from 9:40 to 9:44 p.m.
> > 
> > -Sept. 10 from 8:29 to 8:35 p.m. and from 10:05 to
> 10:08 p.m.
> > 
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > What are the best times?
> > The light should shine brightest on Sept. 8 and around
> 8:30 p.m. Sept. 10.
> > 
> > http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20090903/News01/909030351/1129/News
> > 
> > Don't blink or you might miss it!
> > Phil Whitmer 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really
> fast. 
> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep  3 14:27:39 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 13:27:39 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list - Aliens Did It!
References: <65D2A1356BAF41FCAF349990EAF69291@ET>
Message-ID: <B72C12BBB02E4E89B9DACF89980A9860@ATARIENGINE2>

Phil, List,

You don't need Brownian motion of any kind.
"An object, set in motion, remains in uniform
motion unless interfered with." Some guy named
Newton said that.

You need to read up some. I said that.


Sterling K. Webb
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 10:27 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list - Aliens Did It!


> Pete:
>
> I used to entertain notions of Panspermia, before I lost my religion 
> (concerning outer space intelligent life).  I don't think there are 
> enough particles of matter to support the Brownian Motion necessary to 
> move the spores or sperm or dna or what have you.  Maybe here in our 
> Local Neighborhood, but probably not in intergalactic space.  Only a 
> small percentage of matter as we know it  is out there.  Unless you 
> get Brownian Motion from dark matter, dark energy, antimatter, or 
> whatever that stuff is out there.
>
>
>
> Eric & Sterling:  I agree with you 125% on the topicality of the 
> question of the existence of outer space life.
>
> If you don't like the topic du jour,  instead of yelping like a 
> wounded beagle, why not just start a new thread that is so totally 
> awesome that everyone starts discussing it instead.
>
> Phil Whitmer
>
> Two words: Panspermia Theory.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From fujmon at mac.com  Thu Sep  3 14:48:30 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 08:48:30 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alan Hale: Countdown to 500 Comets
Message-ID: <28383459-86B3-49BC-9958-B271B9C8B7FE@mac.com>

Aloha,

Since we had a thread recently on Alan Hale (as well as a diversion on  
his son of television sitcom fame), I thought I would forward an  
announcement sent by Hale regarding Comet 222P/LINEAR P/2009 MB9.

Those interested in receiving more announcements like this can join  
and subscribe to AstronomyOutreach at yahoogroups.com.

> Comet 222P/LINEAR P/2009 MB9
>
> Yet another one of the intrinsically faint periodic comets that have  
> been
> discovered during recent years. It was initially discovered by  
> LINEAR in
> late 2004 -- and I even made an unsuccessful visual attempt for it  
> then --
> and this time around it was "re-discovered" as an Apollo-type  
> asteroid and
> not recognized as the expected LINEAR comet until it began to exhibit
> cometary activity just before entering evening twilight in early  
> August. It
> passed 0.17 AU from Earth on August 5 and went through inferior  
> conjunction
> a week later.
>
> The comet began emerging into the morning sky shortly before the end  
> of
> August and I started to make attempts for it, but in addition to the  
> normal
> monsoon activity I've also had to contend with hazy skies (perhaps  
> caused by
> smoke from the Station Fire that is burning near some of my old  
> haunts just
> north of Los Angeles) and the frustrating fact that, during what clear
> mornings I did have, the comet always seemed to be located directly  
> on top
> of background stars. I managed to see it on September 1 but it was  
> passing
> over a pair of faint background stars and I couldn't tell too much  
> about it;
> finally, on September 2 -- the last morning with any darkness before  
> full
> moon -- I was able to view it in a "clean" star field as a faint  
> diffuse
> object. On September 2.47, m1=12.9 (extinction corrected), 0.9' coma.
>
> Moonlight will wipe out the comet for the next week and a half, and  
> by the
> time it is again accessible in a dark sky it will probably be too  
> faint for
> visual observations. Since a half-century will elapse before the  
> comet even
> passes with 0.5 AU of Earth again, these two observations are likely  
> to be
> the only ones I ever obtain of it.
>
> Description at http://www.earthriseinstitute.org/coms46.html#461
>
> Images and reports (including reports of outreach efforts) are  
> welcome.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Alan


Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Thu Sep  3 14:55:30 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 14:55:30 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list - Aliens Did It!
Message-ID: <8A63E025B7BF416CB7E56E1FFE3FC88E@ET>

Sterling,

Yes, I've heard of that guy! (Danger, Will Robinson! Lame attempt at humor 
approaching!), and I love Fig Newtons!
I don't have time for no stinking reading, I work 2 jobs.  You must know 
from my posts that I just write down the first thing that pops into my head. 
(Kind of like you do for movie line quotes).

Besides, who needs to read, we have a thing nowadays called: Wikipedia! (I 
can even read it in Klingon or Esperanto!)

Phil Whitmer

Phil, List,

You don't need Brownian motion of any kind.
"An object, set in motion, remains in uniform
motion unless interfered with." Some guy named
Newton said that.

You need to read up some. I said that.


Sterling K. Webb



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Thu Sep  3 15:16:33 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 15:16:33 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list - Aliens Did It!
Message-ID: <B1A4D34E223548DCA7F1F7445AF0A5C4@ET>

The key words here are "unless interefered with".  That is like saying "all 
things being equal".  They never are!  Let's say an object is approaching 
our little sub spiral armlet, from the main spiral arm of the Milky Way. 
Or, if you want to keep it within the Local Neighborhood,  it's coming from 
the outer reaches of the Oort Cloud. Gosh, I can't think of one single thing 
that would interfere with it's motion! It's a complete and total vacuum all 
the way, no solar wind, no gravitational effects from Jupiter, etc.  NOT! 
Of course something is going to interfere with it. Maybe under an ideal set 
of circumstances that statement is true. But practically speaking, I believe 
something could quite possibly cause intereference.

Phil Whitmer

Phil, List,

You don't need Brownian motion of any kind.
"An object, set in motion, remains in uniform
motion unless interfered with." Some guy named
Newton said that.

You need to read up some. I said that.


Sterling K. Webb



From rsvp321 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  3 15:57:02 2009
From: rsvp321 at hotmail.com (Pete Pete)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 15:57:02 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list - Aliens Did It!
In-Reply-To: <65D2A1356BAF41FCAF349990EAF69291@ET>
References: <65D2A1356BAF41FCAF349990EAF69291@ET>
Message-ID: <BAY141-W137C700441B180B4B2E6A5F8EF0@phx.gbl>


 
 
Hi Phil and List,
 
My intention was to make a connection between the topic "Extraterrestrial Life" and meteorites, not necessarily to discuss Panspermia...without six degrees ;)
 
Cheers,
Pete
 


----------------------------------------
> From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 11:27:17 -0400
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list - Aliens Did It!
>
> Pete:
>
> I used to entertain notions of Panspermia, before I lost my religion
> (concerning outer space intelligent life). I don't think there are enough
> particles of matter to support the Brownian Motion necessary to move the
> spores or sperm or dna or what have you. Maybe here in our Local
> Neighborhood, but probably not in intergalactic space. Only a small
> percentage of matter as we know it is out there. Unless you get Brownian
> Motion from dark matter, dark energy, antimatter, or whatever that stuff is
> out there.
>
>
>
> Eric & Sterling: I agree with you 125% on the topicality of the question of
> the existence of outer space life.
>
> If you don't like the topic du jour, instead of yelping like a wounded
> beagle, why not just start a new thread that is so totally awesome that
> everyone starts discussing it instead.
>
> Phil Whitmer
>
> Two words: Panspermia Theory.
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
_________________________________________________________________
New! Get to Messenger faster: Sign-in here now!
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677407

From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Thu Sep  3 16:02:42 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:02:42 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alan Hale: Countdown to 500 Comets
Message-ID: <8A489D572F354B948E8ED2B028B02A53@ET>

Hi Gary,

Ok, I attempted a really stupid and unfunny joke about Alan Hale (Hale-Bopp) 
and the skipper's dad, (the other Alan Hale),  you don't have to rub it in! 
I already took a brutal beating on and off list, can we just let it go?

Kidding, just kidding,

Thanks for the info.

Phil Whitmer

Aloha,

Since we had a thread recently on Alan Hale (as well as a diversion on
his son of television sitcom fame), I thought I would forward an
announcement sent by Hale regarding Comet 222P/LINEAR P/2009 MB9.

Those interested in receiving more announcements like this can join
and subscribe to AstronomyOutreach at yahoogroups.com.




From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Thu Sep  3 16:33:36 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 20:33:36 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad-ebay, esquel, chinga
Message-ID: <195055708-1252010101-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-817878001-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Hi:
I have 4 ebay auctions ending today. They include a 55g Saratov, and a 35g Tenham.  You can view my listings here:
http://tinyurl.com/mppq9g/

Also, I have two customers that are looking to sell a couple items.
Esquel 168g, beautiful slice for 25/g. Pics at http://www.milehighmeteorites.com. 

1.4kg Gorgeous Chinga end piece for 1500. Pics on request.

Thanks for your time.
Matt 
----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  3 17:19:18 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 14:19:18 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites
Message-ID: <COL108-W65DAEBAD194B167BCD4369BEF0@phx.gbl>




Good afternoon everyone,

Some members have expressed yesterday their displeasure in the recent threads about alien life and movie/TV
trivia. Well, here're your chance to discuss meteorites. Several weeks ago I had asked about silicated Campos.
There was only one reply (Thanks again, Joe K.). It could have been because the question was too easy to
deserve an answer or maybe no one knew. Perhaps my questioning sounded   like so much gibberish and so the post was automatically ignored and deleted. I've reprinted my post below. Let me rephrase my question. What are the differences/similarities between mesosiderites and silicated irons? There's not much info in the web that I can find.

Carl



I wrote:

>What are those silicated Campos? Are they irons that have not yet completed it's differentiation, similar to pallasites? Or are they more like mesosiderites with the silicated material from an asteroid that have impacted another asteroid to the iron core? Or are they something else? Are the two materials unrelated to each other as in mesosiderites?

Doesn't matter at this point whether or not they are Campos (I remember reading somewhere they were found several hundred miles away), it's just a name anyway, but to my untrained eye they look more like mesos. Also, is the Toluca (b)(?)
formed the same way?




_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online.
http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009

From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 17:26:58 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:26:58 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W65DAEBAD194B167BCD4369BEF0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL108-W65DAEBAD194B167BCD4369BEF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <e51421550909031426s1cdcf738o8cecc4b1a6249739@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Carl,

I recall you asking this question and I'd like to hear an answer also
- in fact, I think I was one of the few people who replied, although
my reply was the same as this one.

Best regards,

MikeG


On 9/3/09, Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Good afternoon everyone,
>
> Some members have expressed yesterday their displeasure in the recent
> threads about alien life and movie/TV
> trivia. Well, here're your chance to discuss meteorites. Several weeks ago I
> had asked about silicated Campos.
> There was only one reply (Thanks again, Joe K.). It could have been because
> the question was too easy to
> deserve an answer or maybe no one knew. Perhaps my questioning sounded
> like so much gibberish and so the post was automatically ignored and
> deleted. I've reprinted my post below. Let me rephrase my question. What are
> the differences/similarities between mesosiderites and silicated irons?
> There's not much info in the web that I can find.
>
> Carl
>
>
>
> I wrote:
>
>>What are those silicated Campos? Are they irons that have not yet completed
>> it's differentiation, similar to pallasites? Or are they more like
>> mesosiderites with the silicated material from an asteroid that have
>> impacted another asteroid to the iron core? Or are they something else?
>> Are the two materials unrelated to each other as in mesosiderites?
>
> Doesn't matter at this point whether or not they are Campos (I remember
> reading somewhere they were found several hundred miles away), it's just a
> name anyway, but to my untrained eye they look more like mesos. Also, is the
> Toluca (b)(?)
> formed the same way?
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online.
> http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Thu Sep  3 17:35:07 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 21:35:07 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites
In-Reply-To: <e51421550909031426s1cdcf738o8cecc4b1a6249739@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL108-W65DAEBAD194B167BCD4369BEF0@phx.gbl><e51421550909031426s1cdcf738o8cecc4b1a6249739@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1307152948-1252013792-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-465023106-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Not sure why you think they are related (never read they were related), but David Weir's page is the best at summarizing all available parent body data:

http://www.meteoritestudies.com.

Matt
----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA

-----Original Message-----
From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>

Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:26:58 
To: Carl 's<carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites


Hi Carl,

I recall you asking this question and I'd like to hear an answer also
- in fact, I think I was one of the few people who replied, although
my reply was the same as this one.

Best regards,

MikeG


On 9/3/09, Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Good afternoon everyone,
>
> Some members have expressed yesterday their displeasure in the recent
> threads about alien life and movie/TV
> trivia. Well, here're your chance to discuss meteorites. Several weeks ago I
> had asked about silicated Campos.
> There was only one reply (Thanks again, Joe K.). It could have been because
> the question was too easy to
> deserve an answer or maybe no one knew. Perhaps my questioning sounded
> like so much gibberish and so the post was automatically ignored and
> deleted. I've reprinted my post below. Let me rephrase my question. What are
> the differences/similarities between mesosiderites and silicated irons?
> There's not much info in the web that I can find.
>
> Carl
>
>
>
> I wrote:
>
>>What are those silicated Campos? Are they irons that have not yet completed
>> it's differentiation, similar to pallasites? Or are they more like
>> mesosiderites with the silicated material from an asteroid that have
>> impacted another asteroid to the iron core? Or are they something else?
>> Are the two materials unrelated to each other as in mesosiderites?
>
> Doesn't matter at this point whether or not they are Campos (I remember
> reading somewhere they were found several hundred miles away), it's just a
> name anyway, but to my untrained eye they look more like mesos. Also, is the
> Toluca (b)(?)
> formed the same way?
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online.
> http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From aerubin at ucla.edu  Thu Sep  3 17:52:06 2009
From: aerubin at ucla.edu (Alan Rubin)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 14:52:06 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites
References: <COL108-W65DAEBAD194B167BCD4369BEF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AB579AD21A894F428DF0452AE16B0645@SINOITE>

There are three principal goups of silicated iron meteorites: the IAB-IIICD, 
IIE and IVA groups.  Recent work seems to indicate that the IAB and IIICD 
groups are related.  Iron meteorites that are thought to have formed by 
fractional crystallization processes have certain slopes on element-element 
diagrams (e.g., Ir-Ni) that match those expected by fractional 
crystallization, presumably located in cores.  The IVA irons exhibit such 
trends and so are presumably from the core of a differentiated asteroid.  A 
few IVA irons contain small grains of silica.  The IAB-IIICD irons do not 
exhibit trends on element-element diagrams consistent with fractional 
crystallization.  Some researchers (e.g., John Wasson) believe that they are 
not from cores but are rather from impact pools on chondritic asteroids. 
Their silicates are basically chondritic in bulk composition and even 
contain the so-called "planetary gases" as are found in chondrites but not 
differentiated meteorites. The IIE irons have alkali-rich silicates.  These 
silicates are not chondritic in composition but do have planetary gases. 
The metal portion of these iron meteorites also do not conform to the slopes 
expected for fractional crystallization.  They also may have formed as 
impact pools on chondritic asteroids.  The alkali-rich silicates, I believe, 
formed because feldspar has a low impedance to shock compression and hence 
melts first during shock events.  The IIE silicates are similar in 
composition to impact-melt pockets in ordinary chondrites.
    Mesosiderites are differentiated meteorites.  Their metal may have been 
derived from a core.  Their silicates are basically eucrite and diogenite 
material.  I modeled mesosiderites as having formed via the collision of a 
core (with some overlying mantle) to the basaltic surface of another 
asteroid.
Alan Rubin 



From jkg2 at cox.net  Thu Sep  3 18:15:45 2009
From: jkg2 at cox.net (John Gwilliam)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 15:15:45 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] freebies
In-Reply-To: <652733.63545.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <652733.63545.qm@web57802.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090903221555.OCRY21192.fed1rmmtao106.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>

Steve,
Here's a helpful hint that will save you time and 
aggravation.  Instead of wading through 40 emails to find the first 
seven, just take the first seven that showed up in your INBOX.

Bob's your uncle,

John Gwilliam


At 06:45 PM 9/2/2009, steve arnold wrote:
>Hi all.All 7 freebies are all gone.I had to wade thru 40 emails,but 
>the first 7 got them.Just remember to send your address when they 
>are announced.Also lets lose this stupid alien life thing.One of the 
>most stupid threads I have ever seen on this list.Lets just do 
>meteorites and thier related topics.
>  Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!!
>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Regards,

John Gwilliam

Some people are born on third base
and go through life thinking they hit a triple.
                                              [Bob Dylan]  



From jkg2 at cox.net  Thu Sep  3 18:17:37 2009
From: jkg2 at cox.net (John Gwilliam)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 15:17:37 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list
In-Reply-To: <B795E5B4E51240D7BE8A027B29DA3C76@laptop>
References: <B795E5B4E51240D7BE8A027B29DA3C76@laptop>
Message-ID: <20090903221740.YRRF21106.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>

I'm curious.  How can you tell if even one person has left the list 
in the last few weeks, let alone many?

John Gwilliam

At 07:55 PM 9/2/2009, Pete Shugar wrote:
>Has anyone noticed just how many have been leaving the list in the 
>last few weeks?
>I have to wonder what might be the reason for all these departures.
>I certainly hope that all the bickering has not driven them off.
>Pete
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Regards,

John Gwilliam

Some people are born on third base
and go through life thinking they hit a triple.
                                              [Bob Dylan]  



From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  3 18:25:57 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 15:25:57 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites
Message-ID: <COL108-W6320009ABAF44CECDDA9359BEF0@phx.gbl>




Holy cow!

Mr. Rubin wrote:
>There are three principal goups of silicated iron meteorites: the IAB-IIICD, 
IIE and IVA groups.  Recent work seems to indicate that the IAB and IIICD 
groups are related.  Iron meteorites that are thought to have formed by 
...


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From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Thu Sep  3 18:46:00 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 15:46:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holocene start impacts on the History Channel,
	and AD
Message-ID: <924335.25517.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi - from Leroy Ellenberger - 

"Last nite, History Channel premiered subject program about impacts on Earth from meteors, asteroids, comets and space debris:

<http://www.history.com/shows.do?action=detail&episodeId=481956>

The program will be re-broadcast Sunday, Sept. 6 at 7 p.m. EDT, Tuesday, Sept. 15 at 8 p.m. EDT and Wed. Sept. 16 at midnight EDT. Check your local schedule.

The program featured Steve Chesley, the NASA astronomer who recently successfully predicted, for the first time, the point of impact in North Africa of a meteor less than a day after it was discovered. A search team dispatched to the predicted Ground Zero recovered ca. 11 pounds of meteor fragments.

Brown Univ. impact expert Peter Schultz was featured in segments on his investigation of the 2007 impact of a small asteroid in Peru and the simulation of an impact using NASA's vertical gun to fire a pea-sized sphere into a thick Plexiglass(?) plate.  Very impressive slow motion video from various angles.

A surprising subject was the work of Ohio archaeologist Ken Tankersley (Kent State Univ.) at Sheriden Cave in Ohio where he and his team have been excavating remains of Pleistocene mega-fauna and Clovis artifacts from the horizon at 12,900 B.P. The FACT of the Younger-Dryas impact at this time was practically implicit in the program. Tankersley's work was mentioned by Ed Grondine in the August 22nd edition of CCNet, BTW.  See: <http://www.ourstrangeworld.net/index.php/main/article/extraterrestrial_event_affected_human_history/> for more on Tankersley's excavation at Sheriden Cave."

Signed copies of "Man and Impact in the Americas" are available to meteorite list participants for 20$ plus $5 postage ($25) of plus $15 overseas ($35). Contact me off list to place your order. The bitch is sure to become a classic and highly collectable after it's finished killing me.

E.P.



      


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  3 19:42:31 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:42:31 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites
Message-ID: <COL108-W5560E15386D5C5FC58D71F9BEF0@phx.gbl>





OK, I think I see the subtle difference. I have had to re-read Dr. Rubin's post several times to get the picture (Thanks to MikeG, too). Simplified, an asteroid slams into another planetary body right to the iron core and  forms mesosiderites. That part I knew, but when smaller iron asteroids slams onto larger rocky asteroids the surface layer  forms the silicated irons. I would have thought that would also form mesosiderites, too. Hmmm. Very interesting.

Thank you, Dr. Rubin.

Carl

_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery

From aerubin at ucla.edu  Thu Sep  3 19:52:29 2009
From: aerubin at ucla.edu (Alan Rubin)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 16:52:29 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites
References: <COL108-W5560E15386D5C5FC58D71F9BEF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CA26D847DAB34407B9351BEBDC0E773D@SINOITE>

Sorry,, but I guess I was not clear.  The only group of silicate-bearing 
irons widely agreed to have come from an asteroid core is the IVA group. 
This group has little silicate, mainly small grains of silica, which some 
think may have been vapor deposited in the core.  There are no collisions 
involved in forming the IVA irons except the one or ones that shattered 
their parent differentiated asteroid and liberated them.  The other 
silicated irons, i.e., the IAB, IIICD and IIE groups, may be from 
chondritic, not-differentiated asteroids, that never experienced global 
melting.  These irons may have formed after an impact into the chondritic 
surface of these bodies involving local melting and separation of the 
metallic and silicate liquids because they were immiscible.  The metal 
liquid sank to the crater floor, incorporated some rapidly melted silicate 
debris and cooled.  This is a controversial model and not universally 
accepted.  Mesosiderites are differentiated rocks consisting of roughly half 
metal and half silicate.  The silicate is basically basalt and 
orthopyroxenite, i.e., eucrite and diogenite material. The metal is similar 
to that of the IIIAB iron meteorites (a differentiated iron group) and so is 
most likely from the core of a differentiated (i.e., globally melted) 
asteroid.  My model from some years ago was that the iron core (plus 
overlying mantle) of the projectile impacted the basaltic/orthopyroxenitic 
surface of another (target) asteroid and formed the mesosiderites.  The 
large gabrroic clasts in many of the mesosiderites seem to have formed by 
two or more episodes of impact melting, and grain settling.  Their origin 
appears rather different from that of the silicated irons.
Alan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites


>
>
>
>
> OK, I think I see the subtle difference. I have had to re-read Dr. Rubin's 
> post several times to get the picture (Thanks to MikeG, too). Simplified, 
> an asteroid slams into another planetary body right to the iron core and 
> forms mesosiderites. That part I knew, but when smaller iron asteroids 
> slams onto larger rocky asteroids the surface layer  forms the silicated 
> irons. I would have thought that would also form mesosiderites, too. Hmmm. 
> Very interesting.
>
> Thank you, Dr. Rubin.
>
> Carl
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
> http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Thu Sep  3 20:07:20 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 1:07:20 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Universe TV Show
In-Reply-To: <a9ft95p84lsq8801ftq8n6c2ni74159h85@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <20090904010720.1K35Z.698379.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Many thanks again Darren,

Was able to watch it in the UK (after the 3/4hr download). Interesting account of the arrival of Almahata Sitta ('Station Six') and it's recovery. Perhaps too much emphasis again on extinction events though.

Great explanation about the differences in Mesossiderites and silicated irons from Dr Rubin just...good to be back to meteorites again.

GE UK
 


---- Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net> wrote: 
> Download link:
> 
> http://www.sendspace.com/file/5x2t9m
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Sep  3 20:57:56 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 17:57:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thousands of New Images Show Mars in High
	Resolution (MRO)
Message-ID: <200909040057.n840vuKK019462@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-136  

Thousands of New Images Show Mars in High Resolution
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
September 02, 2009

PASADENA, Calif. -- Thousands of newly released images from more than
1,500 telescopic observations by NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter show
a wide range of gullies, dunes, craters, geological layering and other
features on the Red Planet.

The High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (HiRISE) camera on the
orbiter recorded these images from the month of April through early
August of this year. The camera team at the University of Arizona,
Tucson, releases several featured images each week and periodically
releases much larger sets of new images, such as the batch posted today.

The new images are available at
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/releases/sept_09.php .

Each full image from HiRISE covers a strip of Martian ground 6
kilometers (3.7 miles) wide, about two to four times that long, showing
details as small as 1 meter, or yard, across.

The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter has been studying Mars with an advanced
set of instruments since 2006. It has returned more data about the
planet than all other past and current missions to Mars combined. For
more information about the mission, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/mro.

The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is managed by the Jet Propulsion
Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., for NASA's Science Mission Directorate,
Washington. JPL is a division of the California Institute of Technology,
also in Pasadena. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver, is the prime
contractor for the project and built the spacecraft. The High Resolution
Imaging Science Experiment is operated by the University of Arizona,
Tucson, and the instrument was built by Ball Aerospace & Technologies
Corp., Boulder, Colo.

Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov

Lori Stiles 520-626-4402
University of Arizona, Tucson
lstiles at u.arizona.edu

2009-136



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Sep  3 21:05:56 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 18:05:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - September 2, 2009
Message-ID: <200909040105.n8415uCg021395@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES
September 2, 2009

o Fan in Southern Highlands Crater
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014159_1670

o Gullies at the Edge of Hale Crater
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014153_1430
 
o Aonia Terra Periglacial Sample
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013958_1170

o Close-Up of a Hale Ray
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013916_1485

o Rough Terrain
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013810_1485

o Colliding Sand Dunes in Aonia Terra
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013785_1300

o Coordinated MER Spirit and MRO HiRISE Imaging Campaign
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013499_1650
 
All of the HiRISE images are archived here:

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/

Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is 
online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is 
managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division 
of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA 
Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed 
Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor 
and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the 
University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies 
Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument.



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 21:48:05 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 21:48:05 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list
In-Reply-To: <20090903221740.YRRF21106.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
References: <B795E5B4E51240D7BE8A027B29DA3C76@laptop>
	<20090903221740.YRRF21106.fed1rmmtao105.cox.net@fed1rmimpo02.cox.net>
Message-ID: <f0a794130909031848o37c27338mfacd61a39bceae9a@mail.gmail.com>

> How can you tell if even one person has left the list in the last few weeks, let alone many?

because all these people keep writing to the list with R~E~M~O~V~E .
don't want to really write it cause I might get remo... i mean.. taken
off the list

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 6:17 PM, John Gwilliam<jkg2 at cox.net> wrote:
> I'm curious. ?How can you tell if even one person has left the list in the
> last few weeks, let alone many?
>
> John Gwilliam
>
> At 07:55 PM 9/2/2009, Pete Shugar wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone noticed just how many have been leaving the list in the last
>> few weeks?
>> I have to wonder what might be the reason for all these departures.
>> I certainly hope that all the bickering has not driven them off.
>> Pete
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> Regards,
>
> John Gwilliam
>
> Some people are born on third base
> and go through life thinking they hit a triple.
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? [Bob Dylan]
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep  3 21:51:21 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 18:51:21 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites
Message-ID: <COL108-W5905C51ABD08A193A02E009BEE0@phx.gbl>




No apology is needed, Dr. Rubin. You are crystal clear. It's just that I'm as dumb as an ox. It takes a bit of doing on  my part for all that information to sink in. You've also explained the two inclusions in my little slice of Muonionalusta! I had wondered about them as well.

So after the IAB, IIE or IIICD iron sank to the crater floor with some melted silicate debris it must have experienced another collision from another asteroid to later find it's way to Earth.

I would ask what of 'Patagonia'? See:

http://www.meteoriteguy.com/collection/Patagoniairon.htm

Are these silicated irons as well?

Carl




_________________________________________________________________
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From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Thu Sep  3 21:51:54 2009
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 21:51:54 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites
Message-ID: <16FF5695F61A4D6BB02A17E72063AB1C@whitmerjbqtim1>



Alan: Well done! Carl: thanks for persistently asking a simple question with 
a complex answer.  I've often wondered about this myself.  I never 
understood how some Campos (or Odessas) could be silicated and others not. I 
thought it had to do with Earth impact, (duh!) Thanks for saving me hours of 
reading, and I still wouldn't have drawn the proper conclusions.

Phil Whitmer



Sorry,, but I guess I was not clear. The only group of silicate-bearing
irons widely agreed to have come from an asteroid core is the IVA group.
This group has little silicate, mainly small grains of silica, which some
think may have been vapor deposited in the core. There are no collisions
involved in forming the IVA irons except the one or ones that shattered
their parent differentiated asteroid and liberated them. The other
silicated irons, i.e., the IAB, IIICD and IIE groups, may be from
chondritic, not-differentiated asteroids, that never experienced global
melting. These irons may have formed after an impact into the chondritic
surface of these bodies involving local melting and separation of the
metallic and silicate liquids because they were immiscible. The metal
liquid sank to the crater floor, incorporated some rapidly melted silicate
debris and cooled. This is a controversial model and not universally
accepted. Mesosiderites are differentiated rocks consisting of roughly half
metal and half silicate. The silicate is basically basalt and
orthopyroxenite, i.e., eucrite and diogenite material. The metal is similar
to that of the IIIAB iron meteorites (a differentiated iron group) and so is
most likely from the core of a differentiated (i.e., globally melted)
asteroid. My model from some years ago was that the iron core (plus
overlying mantle) of the projectile impacted the basaltic/orthopyroxenitic
surface of another (target) asteroid and formed the mesosiderites. The
large gabrroic clasts in many of the mesosiderites seem to have formed by
two or more episodes of impact melting, and grain settling. Their origin
appears rather different from that of the silicated irons.
Alan



From piebear at cox.net  Thu Sep  3 22:08:29 2009
From: piebear at cox.net (Arlene Schlazer)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 19:08:29 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites
In-Reply-To: <16FF5695F61A4D6BB02A17E72063AB1C@whitmerjbqtim1>
References: <16FF5695F61A4D6BB02A17E72063AB1C@whitmerjbqtim1>
Message-ID: <31D3723F8ABA4EA5AEE3CB4813F2666C@PiePC>

Very interesting--thank you for that explanation--that explains all my 
silicated irons....now
I have a question regarding the bandwith of the Widmanstatten pattern on 
various irons--what exactly determines if it's a "fine", "medium" or 
"course" octahedrite....is it the length of time it took to cool in space? 
I have a fairly large collection of irons and I'd like to have a clearer 
understanding of what determines the pattern.....thanks....Arlene Schlazer
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phil Whitmer" <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 6:51 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites


>
>
> Alan: Well done! Carl: thanks for persistently asking a simple question 
> with a complex answer.  I've often wondered about this myself.  I never 
> understood how some Campos (or Odessas) could be silicated and others not. 
> I thought it had to do with Earth impact, (duh!) Thanks for saving me 
> hours of reading, and I still wouldn't have drawn the proper conclusions.
>
> Phil Whitmer
>
>
>
> Sorry,, but I guess I was not clear. The only group of silicate-bearing
> irons widely agreed to have come from an asteroid core is the IVA group.
> This group has little silicate, mainly small grains of silica, which some
> think may have been vapor deposited in the core. There are no collisions
> involved in forming the IVA irons except the one or ones that shattered
> their parent differentiated asteroid and liberated them. The other
> silicated irons, i.e., the IAB, IIICD and IIE groups, may be from
> chondritic, not-differentiated asteroids, that never experienced global
> melting. These irons may have formed after an impact into the chondritic
> surface of these bodies involving local melting and separation of the
> metallic and silicate liquids because they were immiscible. The metal
> liquid sank to the crater floor, incorporated some rapidly melted silicate
> debris and cooled. This is a controversial model and not universally
> accepted. Mesosiderites are differentiated rocks consisting of roughly 
> half
> metal and half silicate. The silicate is basically basalt and
> orthopyroxenite, i.e., eucrite and diogenite material. The metal is 
> similar
> to that of the IIIAB iron meteorites (a differentiated iron group) and so 
> is
> most likely from the core of a differentiated (i.e., globally melted)
> asteroid. My model from some years ago was that the iron core (plus
> overlying mantle) of the projectile impacted the basaltic/orthopyroxenitic
> surface of another (target) asteroid and formed the mesosiderites. The
> large gabrroic clasts in many of the mesosiderites seem to have formed by
> two or more episodes of impact melting, and grain settling. Their origin
> appears rather different from that of the silicated irons.
> Alan
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From mqfowler at mac.com  Thu Sep  3 22:16:14 2009
From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:16:14 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Formation of Silicated Irons
Message-ID: <E4835212-3D66-42B2-934A-78AE95658057@mac.com>

> These irons may have formed after an impact into the chondritic
> surface of these bodies involving local melting and separation of the
> metallic and silicate liquids because they were immiscible. The metal
> liquid sank to the crater floor, incorporated some rapidly melted  
> silicate
> debris and cooled. This is a controversial model and not universally
> accepted.


Alan,

Thanks so much for taking time from your busy schedule to respond to  
the list on this subject.

Regarding the theory of formation of silicated irons by impact melting  
and separation of melts, although this may leave much to be desired,
I was wondering what is/are the competing formation theories?

Sincerely,

Mike Fowler
Chicago

PS  My main criticism is how there could be so many different IAB  
irons from the same parent body, but apparently from different impact/ 
melt pools, and none from all the other asteroid bodies that must have  
once existed?


From mmurray at montrose.net  Thu Sep  3 22:17:12 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 20:17:12 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] looking for a reference site for meteorite mineral
	identification
Message-ID: <84DA5230-EA2C-4081-B942-FB313835C7CD@montrose.net>

Hi All,
I was wondering where on the www some of you might direct a person to  
find a good reference site for identifying meteorite minerals.   
Something that a layman could digest that includes crystal information  
and commonly occurring colors of the different minerals, etc.  I am  
trying to find out what a colorless almost quartz looking material  
is.  Looks like the color of dishwater.  It is the majority  
constituent of the matrix.  It's not heavy like quartz.   I found one  
very good site  nau.edu.  I'd like to find a couple more if they are  
out there and accessible.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Mike in CO


From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Thu Sep  3 22:59:06 2009
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 22:59:06 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites
Message-ID: <DB7102ADB9B64577887573CDD02D60DB@whitmerjbqtim1>

Arlene,

Someone just explained this not too long ago. If I recall: cooling is a 
factor, but mainly it's the amount of nickel in the meteorite that 
determines the pattern. The slower it cooled, the larger the interlaced 
crystals of taenite and kamacite, both iron nickel alloys.  The width of 
these bands is the basis for the structural classification system of irons. 
The hexahedrites have the lowest nickel content and show a fine pattern of 
lines called Neumann bands.  The octahedrites, ranging from coarsest to 
finest have more and more nickel until you get to the plessitics which in 
place of a Widmanstatten pattern, have lines of kamacite needles  in a 
matrix of high nickel alloy called tetrataenite.   Irons with the most 
nickel are the ataxites, which have no pattern at all.  As to why the 
meteorites have varying amounts of nickel is beyond me.

Hope this helps,

Phil Whitmer







Very interesting--thank you for that explanation--that explains all my
silicated irons....now
I have a question regarding the bandwith of the Widmanstatten pattern on
various irons--what exactly determines if it's a "fine", "medium" or
"course" octahedrite....is it the length of time it took to cool in space?
I have a fairly large collection of irons and I'd like to have a clearer
understanding of what determines the pattern.....thanks....Arlene Schlazer 



From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Fri Sep  4 00:00:24 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 00:00:24 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 4,
	2009
Message-ID: <c3d.62d374bd.37d1ead8@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_4_2009.html





---  



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 00:27:14 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 00:27:14 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] weird rock - meteor wrong
Message-ID: <f0a794130909032127ube2d1das6119838aed9d1d12@mail.gmail.com>

anyone know what this rock is:

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/meteor-wrong-buy-what.jpg


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  4 02:09:15 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 23:09:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Universe TV show
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W50FCD5C7C1637EC77B32D29BF00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <777394.99843.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I certain hope and expect it to be a high quality program. The three man crew that was doing the taping were great to work with and a lot of fun. Total taping time at the 60" lasted about 11 hours total. Exhausting and tedious and by far the longest time I've had to spend with a film crew. They spent a lot of time making sure they were getting interesting and unique footage, but I think the effort will be well worth it.

Hopefully Carl, you'll have a chance to see it.

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Wed, 9/2/09, Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Universe TV show/Mike Hankey's front page news
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, September 2, 2009, 1:49 PM
> 
> 
> 
> Rats! I don't get the National Geographic Channel. :(
> Another can't miss show that I'll be missing. Sounds like a
> great show, too.
> 
> Mike, great article on your front page news!
> 
> Carl
> 
> >There is a National Geographic Channel program in final
> production that 
> > should air in a few months that is specifically about
> the 2008 TC3. It'll be 
> > divided into approximately thirds; Discovery, the
> flurry of activity the day 
> > before impact and then the recovery of the Almahata
> Sitta meteorites.
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
> http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk  Fri Sep  4 04:45:11 2009
From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk (Peter Davidson)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:45:11 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list
Message-ID: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E2711003D2@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>

Hi Graham and All

As one of the people you persuaded to join the List, I beg you not to
feel embarrassed about the level of discussion in the last few weeks.
Anyone who has gone to the pub and tried to have a rational discussion
on politics will know how low things can go. I intend to remain on the
list and just replace my delete button from time to time as it wears
out!

Have a good weekend

Peter Davidson
Curator of Minerals
 
National Museums Collection Centre
National Museums Scotland
242 West Granton Road
Edinburgh
EH5 1JA
Phone: +44 131 247 4283
p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
www.nms.ac.uk
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
ensoramanda at ntlworld.com
Sent: 03 September 2009 10:13
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Pete Shugar
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Removal from the list

Hi Pete, All,

Yes I have noticed that. This year I spoke to several folks interested
in meteorites who had joined on my recommendation and I am actually
embarrassed now as the quality of discussion has deteriorated badly. I
have taken part for years but recently 90% of posts are just wearing out
my delete key!

Graham Ensor, UK

---- Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net> wrote: 
> Has anyone noticed just how many have been leaving the list 
> in the last few weeks?
> I have to wonder what might be the reason for all these departures.
> I certainly hope that all the bickering has not driven them off.
> Pete
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Magnificent Machines: the transport event of the season. National Museum of Flight, 26-27 September. www.nms.ac.uk/magnificentmachines

National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.


From tett at rogers.com  Fri Sep  4 06:41:24 2009
From: tett at rogers.com (tett)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 06:41:24 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad:  D'Orbigny Slice For Sale
In-Reply-To: <ei8m95pqmp4q510cco4slo4o5he28o7c8j@4ax.com>
References: <8CBF7AC8DE521AD-36C8-12E37@webmail-m068.sysops.aol.com>	<214281998.57781251673356613.JavaMail.root@zmcs01l-pol-08.portal.webmd.com>
	<ei8m95pqmp4q510cco4slo4o5he28o7c8j@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4AA0EED4.8060803@rogers.com>

List,

Occasionally I sell off one or two pieces from my collection and have 
decided to part with my 4.9 gram slice of D'Orbigny.  Mt other passion, 
motorcycles, has me dreamily staring at a new two wheeler and the only 
way I can grab this bike is to part with some other treasure.

If interested you can see a pic at:  
http://picasaweb.google.com/MikeTettenborn/Meteorites#5377558136592402850

Will entertain low offers so don't be afraid to ask.  Please reply off list.

Cheers!

Mike Tettenborn


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  4 08:11:15 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 05:11:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] nwa 788  (ad)
Message-ID: <408349.75069.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Good morning list.I am looking for an endcut or nice slice of nwa 788.Over 100 grams! I have a small part slice of nwa 482, ( .164 grams) I can offer in trade.It measures 1 cm x 8 mm in size.Pics upon request.Please off list.I hope everyone in the states has a great labor day holiday.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


      



From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  4 09:36:24 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 06:36:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites
In-Reply-To: <CA26D847DAB34407B9351BEBDC0E773D@SINOITE>
Message-ID: <64473.55721.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

--- On Thu, 9/3/09, Alan Rubin <aerubin at ucla.edu> wrote:
<<snip... The metal liquid sank to the crater floor, incorporated some rapidly melted silicate debris andcooled.? This is a controversial model and not universally accepted.>>?

I think this theory has a potential fatal flaw if what we think we know about taenite/kamacite growth is valid.  Without an insulating blanket the molten pool will not exist in a molten state long enough to permit crystallization aka Widmanstatten patterns.  

Be it remembered that Widmanstatten pattern/crystal growth is very very slow on the order of 10's of degrees cooling per million years. It is difficult to develop a scenario that integrates a large crater on an Goldilocks Asteroid which works. 

Goldilocks: Not too small as escape velocity is so low there is no fall back/re-accretion to bury the melt; Not too large as the asteroid would have already differentiated into a metallic core...so it has to be just right, at the threshold of the larger size with sufficient gravitational acceleration to not just recapture ejecta but to do it rapidly enough to insulate the molten metal.  I envision a steeply conical deep crater which could minimize the amount of fall back ejecta to cover the surface. keep the pool--if in fact, such one exists.  This scenario also requires to nearly identical impacts; one down the throat of another, millions of years apart.  This tends to disfavor the crater floor theory on just the statistics. It would be interesting to locate a crater on an asteroid that fits the definition of Dewar flask. 

Popigai, here on earth had the depth and fall back to insulate a 600m melt on the crater floor and it only stayed molten for "a few thousand years" Not millions! This was a scenario that was given all benefit of favorable condition and still could not stay molten long enough.

I can see why this theory has some doubters.  Were we able to find a rapidly quenched FeNi meteorite without the Widmanstatten marker than I could see a scenario for this theory, but to my meager knowledge of irons I can't recall one. One caveat, I can not positively confirm any silicated iron (e.g. Miles) shows or doesn't show a pattern when etched.  Ergo, I may have made the case for validating or invalidating the theory.

As far as impact-induced melting and melt pockets scattered around the interior, meeting the insulation demands, I find much more reasonable.  A vignette example would be Portales Valley as it proves a process on a micro level indicating the possibility that it has operated on a macro level.

Elton


From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  4 09:51:42 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 06:51:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] weird rock - meteor wrong
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909032127ube2d1das6119838aed9d1d12@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <288507.49257.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Yes I do or in the local dialect "yeppers".  Silicate slag (a glass with also with bands of ceramic/clay) a bi-product of iron smelting which has been produced and disposed of-- all over Pennsylvania for at least 240 years.  It was a popular automotive and rail road bed filler.

This was tapped off the furnace onto a floor allowed to cool them broken up by workers to be hauled off.  This is (ore + flux-iron-CO2)= (silicate glass+ clay).
Elton
--- On Fri, 9/4/09, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote:
> anyone know what this rock is:
> 
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/meteor-wrong-buy-what.jpg


From grf2 at comcast.net  Fri Sep  4 10:01:32 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 10:01:32 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] COME ON!  Alien Life Topic
References: <C6C46372.7037%mlblood@cox.net>
	<08553EF9518C47FFB28AB573FDC2F036@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <89C91185FFBD4B6680DC53E894D55543@ASUS>

How true. soooo true.
WO the personal attacks [ I'm not referring to formal legitimate warnings 
about potential threats to cash or claims of authenticity if documented] 
this is an ideal forum where all can share a wide range of interests and 
delete non interesting topics.
So let the List live long and prosper!
jerry Flaherty

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:45 AM
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Cc: <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>; "Michael Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] COME ON!  Alien Life Topic

> Michael, List,
>
>    I completely agree that the occasional movie
> reference is non-meteoritic (unless the movie is
> about meteors, asteroids and such), but the connection between meteorites 
> and life that may exist off this planet is as intertwined as
> any two topics could be.
>
>    The hypothesis that meteorites could bring life (or alien life) to 
> Earth is almost as old as the recognition that meteorites actually do fall 
> from the sky. In 1864, Louis Pasteur performed
> careful experimentation to extract, without contamination, a sample from 
> the depths of the Orgueil meteorite to culture for micro-organisms.
> He did so because he was searching for an
> alternate origin for life on Earth in distinction
> to spontaneous generation, which he had already
> disproved in his laboratory.
>
>    The result of his search for microbes in Orgeil was negative, BTW.
>
>    Every few decades there is a meteorite-life
> issue that becomes a matter of hot dispute in
> science and the broader world. The latest was the Martian meteorite with 
> traces of microbial life, or was there? There were many hundreds of posts 
> on this List to one side or the other as
> that dispute raged on.
>
>    It's an on-going debate. (There was another claim of fossils in Orgueil 
> in 2004!) The entire question of the existence of any life off this
> planet is germane to meteorites even if specific
> meteoritic evidence is not in question. The two
> subjects are intimately related. IF there is any
> other life, meteorites would potentially present the easiest evidence to 
> access and the only samples of "otherworldly" matter that we have. If 
> there is no life (as has been alleged in these posts), much research on 
> meteorites is being wasted.
>
>    We all have to recognize that everyone of us
> brings a different perspective to the subject of
> meteorites. For example, the question of whether
> or not a particular meteorite was or was not a
> "hammer" is of only the mildest scientific interest,
> being a purely anecdotal matter, and is largely irrelevant.
>
>    However, it is to be recognized that that subject
> is of great interest in the arcana of collectorship
> and highly important to some (but not to others).
> However, since all of us DO bring a different perspective to the subject, 
> it would be, well,
> impolite, for those who are less interested to tell those that are most 
> interested to stop posting about it. Likewise, the long sequences of Posts 
> about the cost per gram of this or that stone -- it's like listening to 
> the farmers down at the round
> table at the Chatterbox Cafe talk about the price of corn or hogs --  
> intensely interesting if you sell corn or hogs, but if not it's just 
> fatback talk...
>
>    This is not the Meteorite Collectors' List, nor
> the Meteorite Commerce List, nor the Meteorite Market List, nor the 
> Meteorite Hunter's List, nor
> the Meteorite Trade and Freebies List, nor the Meteorite Impact List, not 
> the Meteorite Crater List, nor the Meteorite History List, nor the 
> Meteorite Stamp and Coin List, nor the Meteor Shower List, nor the 
> Meteorite People List, nor the Meteorite Theoretical Science List, nor the
> Meteorite Petrology List, nor the Asteroid List, the Planetary List, the 
> Interstellar Dust List, nor the Alien Life List, nor even The Meteorite 
> Quibble List --- it's ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
>
>    It's the Meteorite [Inclusive] List, and it's far
> better off for being what it is than if it were too
> narrowly defined, maddening as it may be at
> times.
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michael Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
> To: "GREG LINDH" <geeg48 at msn.com>; <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
> Cc: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] COME ON! Alien Life Topic
>
>
>> PLEASE stop this Alian Live and Movies/TV
>> Crapolla on the METEORITE LIST.
>>        MLB
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From astroroks at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  4 11:38:04 2009
From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 10:38:04 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lunar question
Message-ID: <COL113-W34E20510F9274D79F33C58B1EE0@phx.gbl>


Good Morning All...  I have a rather novice question: What is the identifying
tag or indicator that differentiates a Lunar breccia basalt from a terrestrial
breccia?  I have cut and examined several that I have found, and not
knowing the difference, made coasters out of them...  I know you guys that
run to Morocco to purchase them, from time to time, have a good idea without
taking a lab with you.... 
 Thanks!
Dennis Miller
 
Sorry, nothing to give away, but bare with me.....
Oh, I did give one of my non-lunar coasters to Haag.
 
_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery

From aerubin at ucla.edu  Fri Sep  4 12:24:00 2009
From: aerubin at ucla.edu (Alan Rubin)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 09:24:00 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites
References: <64473.55721.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <86698E87C9344354A24BD5BBD581D0EF@SINOITE>

Several folks have brought up interesting questions and I'll try to answer 
them.  But, first of all, I have to admit that I'm not an expert on iron 
meteorites.  There are many other researchers, including a few members of 
this list, who are far more knowledgeable than I am.
        John Wasson has recently grouped various IAB and IIICD irons and 
some ungrouped irons into a "IAB complex."  These may be all from one 
asteroid, or perhaps from several.  They all have broadly similar metal 
compositions and do not display element-element (e.g., Ir-Ni) concentration 
plots that appear consistent with the fractional crystallization processes 
that are believed to occur in the cores of molten asteroids. The silicates 
in these irons also have the planetary-type rare gas abundances that we see 
in chondrites but not in eucrites, presumably because they were volatilized 
during the extensive melting that eucrites experienced.  This suggests that 
the silicates in these irons were rapidly cooled.  This is consistent with 
the model that they were derived from chondrites as is their approximately 
chondritic bulk compositions.  Now, the question of why these irons display 
nice Widmanstatten patterns that appear consistent with slow cooling over 
millions of years...  I suspect that this is not due to monotonic cooling 
but rather to annealing, perhaps induced by impact heating processes.  If an 
impact on a chondritic asteroid causes localized melting, metal and silicate 
segregation and metal pooling on the crater floor (as in this model), then 
the slow cooling indicated by the metal might be due to burial beneath 
well-insulated debris (perhaps impact ejecta); such material would have a 
low thermal diffusivity and would promote relatively slow cooling.  Could it 
be slow enough to cause a Widmanstatten pattern?  I don't know, but repeated 
impacts over the course of millions of years could cause periodic episodes 
of annealing.  This might (or might not) work.  Although there may seem to 
be an inconsistancy between the fast cooling of the silicates and the slow 
cooling of the metal, this can be readily accommodated.  Once the silicates 
quench and the planetary gas is essentially sealed in, then they could be 
annealed without much of the gas leaking out.
        It is important to note that not everyone agrees with the 
impact-melting model for the IAB-IIICD and IIE irons.  Others would argue 
that these irons did form in differentiated asteroids, perhaps in cores, 
perhaps in isolated pods in the mantle that never sank to the asteroid 
center.  I'm not convinced by these models, but perhaps this exchange will 
prompt one of the advocates to explain it.
Alan



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mr EMan" <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>
To: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Alan Rubin" <aerubin at ucla.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites


--- On Thu, 9/3/09, Alan Rubin <aerubin at ucla.edu> wrote:
<<snip... The metal liquid sank to the crater floor, incorporated some 
rapidly melted silicate debris andcooled. This is a controversial model and 
not universally accepted.>>

I think this theory has a potential fatal flaw if what we think we know 
about taenite/kamacite growth is valid.  Without an insulating blanket the 
molten pool will not exist in a molten state long enough to permit 
crystallization aka Widmanstatten patterns.

Be it remembered that Widmanstatten pattern/crystal growth is very very slow 
on the order of 10's of degrees cooling per million years. It is difficult 
to develop a scenario that integrates a large crater on an Goldilocks 
Asteroid which works.

Goldilocks: Not too small as escape velocity is so low there is no fall 
back/re-accretion to bury the melt; Not too large as the asteroid would have 
already differentiated into a metallic core...so it has to be just right, at 
the threshold of the larger size with sufficient gravitational acceleration 
to not just recapture ejecta but to do it rapidly enough to insulate the 
molten metal.  I envision a steeply conical deep crater which could minimize 
the amount of fall back ejecta to cover the surface. keep the pool--if in 
fact, such one exists.  This scenario also requires to nearly identical 
impacts; one down the throat of another, millions of years apart.  This 
tends to disfavor the crater floor theory on just the statistics. It would 
be interesting to locate a crater on an asteroid that fits the definition of 
Dewar flask.

Popigai, here on earth had the depth and fall back to insulate a 600m melt 
on the crater floor and it only stayed molten for "a few thousand years" Not 
millions! This was a scenario that was given all benefit of favorable 
condition and still could not stay molten long enough.

I can see why this theory has some doubters.  Were we able to find a rapidly 
quenched FeNi meteorite without the Widmanstatten marker than I could see a 
scenario for this theory, but to my meager knowledge of irons I can't recall 
one. One caveat, I can not positively confirm any silicated iron (e.g. 
Miles) shows or doesn't show a pattern when etched.  Ergo, I may have made 
the case for validating or invalidating the theory.

As far as impact-induced melting and melt pockets scattered around the 
interior, meeting the insulation demands, I find much more reasonable.  A 
vignette example would be Portales Valley as it proves a process on a micro 
level indicating the possibility that it has operated on a macro level.

Elton
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 12:28:32 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 12:28:32 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites
In-Reply-To: <86698E87C9344354A24BD5BBD581D0EF@SINOITE>
References: <64473.55721.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<86698E87C9344354A24BD5BBD581D0EF@SINOITE>
Message-ID: <e51421550909040928p5b020d3m75d684f221a8e030@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alan, Carl and List,

WOW!  Thanks Alan!  This is what I joined the Met List for.  :)

Best regards and clear skies,

MikeG


On 9/4/09, Alan Rubin <aerubin at ucla.edu> wrote:
> Several folks have brought up interesting questions and I'll try to answer
> them.  But, first of all, I have to admit that I'm not an expert on iron
> meteorites.  There are many other researchers, including a few members of
> this list, who are far more knowledgeable than I am.
>         John Wasson has recently grouped various IAB and IIICD irons and
> some ungrouped irons into a "IAB complex."  These may be all from one
> asteroid, or perhaps from several.  They all have broadly similar metal
> compositions and do not display element-element (e.g., Ir-Ni) concentration
> plots that appear consistent with the fractional crystallization processes
> that are believed to occur in the cores of molten asteroids. The silicates
> in these irons also have the planetary-type rare gas abundances that we see
> in chondrites but not in eucrites, presumably because they were volatilized
> during the extensive melting that eucrites experienced.  This suggests that
> the silicates in these irons were rapidly cooled.  This is consistent with
> the model that they were derived from chondrites as is their approximately
> chondritic bulk compositions.  Now, the question of why these irons display
> nice Widmanstatten patterns that appear consistent with slow cooling over
> millions of years...  I suspect that this is not due to monotonic cooling
> but rather to annealing, perhaps induced by impact heating processes.  If an
> impact on a chondritic asteroid causes localized melting, metal and silicate
> segregation and metal pooling on the crater floor (as in this model), then
> the slow cooling indicated by the metal might be due to burial beneath
> well-insulated debris (perhaps impact ejecta); such material would have a
> low thermal diffusivity and would promote relatively slow cooling.  Could it
> be slow enough to cause a Widmanstatten pattern?  I don't know, but repeated
> impacts over the course of millions of years could cause periodic episodes
> of annealing.  This might (or might not) work.  Although there may seem to
> be an inconsistancy between the fast cooling of the silicates and the slow
> cooling of the metal, this can be readily accommodated.  Once the silicates
> quench and the planetary gas is essentially sealed in, then they could be
> annealed without much of the gas leaking out.
>         It is important to note that not everyone agrees with the
> impact-melting model for the IAB-IIICD and IIE irons.  Others would argue
> that these irons did form in differentiated asteroids, perhaps in cores,
> perhaps in isolated pods in the mantle that never sank to the asteroid
> center.  I'm not convinced by these models, but perhaps this exchange will
> prompt one of the advocates to explain it.
> Alan
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mr EMan" <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>;
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Alan Rubin" <aerubin at ucla.edu>
> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 6:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Let's talk about meteorites
>
>
> --- On Thu, 9/3/09, Alan Rubin <aerubin at ucla.edu> wrote:
> <<snip... The metal liquid sank to the crater floor, incorporated some
> rapidly melted silicate debris andcooled. This is a controversial model and
> not universally accepted.>>
>
> I think this theory has a potential fatal flaw if what we think we know
> about taenite/kamacite growth is valid.  Without an insulating blanket the
> molten pool will not exist in a molten state long enough to permit
> crystallization aka Widmanstatten patterns.
>
> Be it remembered that Widmanstatten pattern/crystal growth is very very slow
> on the order of 10's of degrees cooling per million years. It is difficult
> to develop a scenario that integrates a large crater on an Goldilocks
> Asteroid which works.
>
> Goldilocks: Not too small as escape velocity is so low there is no fall
> back/re-accretion to bury the melt; Not too large as the asteroid would have
> already differentiated into a metallic core...so it has to be just right, at
> the threshold of the larger size with sufficient gravitational acceleration
> to not just recapture ejecta but to do it rapidly enough to insulate the
> molten metal.  I envision a steeply conical deep crater which could minimize
> the amount of fall back ejecta to cover the surface. keep the pool--if in
> fact, such one exists.  This scenario also requires to nearly identical
> impacts; one down the throat of another, millions of years apart.  This
> tends to disfavor the crater floor theory on just the statistics. It would
> be interesting to locate a crater on an asteroid that fits the definition of
> Dewar flask.
>
> Popigai, here on earth had the depth and fall back to insulate a 600m melt
> on the crater floor and it only stayed molten for "a few thousand years" Not
> millions! This was a scenario that was given all benefit of favorable
> condition and still could not stay molten long enough.
>
> I can see why this theory has some doubters.  Were we able to find a rapidly
> quenched FeNi meteorite without the Widmanstatten marker than I could see a
> scenario for this theory, but to my meager knowledge of irons I can't recall
> one. One caveat, I can not positively confirm any silicated iron (e.g.
> Miles) shows or doesn't show a pattern when etched.  Ergo, I may have made
> the case for validating or invalidating the theory.
>
> As far as impact-induced melting and melt pockets scattered around the
> interior, meeting the insulation demands, I find much more reasonable.  A
> vignette example would be Portales Valley as it proves a process on a micro
> level indicating the possibility that it has operated on a macro level.
>
> Elton
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From lintonius at earthlink.net  Fri Sep  4 13:05:05 2009
From: lintonius at earthlink.net (Linton Rohr)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 10:05:05 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list]  - MARS RECONNAISSANCE IMAGES
References: <mailman.50.1252028890.93235.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <094541322CCB4FF0B3AA11EBADB37C71@D190TH71>

Ron, these are really incredible images.
I regret that I haven't been taking the time to look at them until now.
Thanks for sharing them.
Linton

> Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 18:05:56 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Ron Baalke <baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - September 2, 2009
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com (Meteorite Mailing List)
> Message-ID: <200909040105.n8415uCg021395 at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> 
> 
> MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES
> September 2, 2009
> 
> o Fan in Southern Highlands Crater
>  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014159_1670
> 
> o Gullies at the Edge of Hale Crater
>  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014153_1430
> 
> o Aonia Terra Periglacial Sample
>  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013958_1170
> 
> o Close-Up of a Hale Ray
>  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013916_1485
> 
> o Rough Terrain
>  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013810_1485
> 
> o Colliding Sand Dunes in Aonia Terra
>  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013785_1300
> 
> o Coordinated MER Spirit and MRO HiRISE Imaging Campaign
>  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013499_1650
> 
> All of the HiRISE images are archived here:
> 
> http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/
> 
> Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is 
> online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is 
> managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division 
> of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA 
> Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed 
> Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor 
> and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the 
> University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies 
> Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument.



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Fri Sep  4 14:22:26 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:22:26 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball: Huge Explosion Over Ireland
Message-ID: <4AA15AE2.8090000@meteoritesusa.com>

Big Fireball,

BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8239188.stm

-------------------------------------------

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5j4nvh5fP8c_EmrXN2HMO0iDzv9Zg

Astronomers in search of meteorite

(UKPA) ? 1 hour ago

Astronomers are on the trail of a meteorite after a massive explosion 
over Ireland.

The fireball, said to burn as bright as the full moon, was seen flashing 
across the country on Wednesday night. Astronomy Ireland said the 
suspected meteor was spotted from Valentia Island, Skibbereen, west Cork 
to Cavan and further north in Raphoe, Co Donegal. Chairman David Moore 
believes it may have ditched in the Atlantic.

"If it's brighter than the full moon then there's a chance that part of 
it survived and landed," he said.

Copyright ? 2009 The Press Association. All rights reserved.

------------------------------------------

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA


From korotev at wustl.edu  Fri Sep  4 14:10:29 2009
From: korotev at wustl.edu (Randy Korotev)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 13:10:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lunar question
In-Reply-To: <COL113-W34E20510F9274D79F33C58B1EE0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL113-W34E20510F9274D79F33C58B1EE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200909041810.n84IAIW20826@levee.wustl.edu>

Dennis:

I might be able to answer your question, but I need to understand the 
question better.

Do you mean "breccia basalt" as opposed to just "breccia?"  Most 
lunar meteorites are breccias, but only a few of the breccias are 
basaltic.  Most basaltic lunar meteorites are not breccias; they're 
unbrecciated basalts.  Did you follow that?

In my opinion, in the absence of a fusion crust it's impossible to 
identify a lunar meteorite "just by looking," and I've seen 
practically all of them.  I have bought or been sent about 4 alleged 
lunar meteorites from experienced collectors and dealers in the past 
5 years that turned out to be terrestrial rocks, eucrites, or 
howardites.  I've seen some lunar meteorites, most notably the 
Kalahari stones, that don't look anything like a moon rock or a any 
kind of meteorite.

Some, if not many, terrestrial basalts "look like" martian and lunar 
basaltic meteorites.  So far, none of the lunar or martian basaltic 
meteorites are as vesicular as are many terrestrial basalts, but lack 
of vesicles sure doesn't make it a planetary meteorite.   A chemical 
or mineralogical analysis is neede to distiguish among terrestrial, 
martian, lunar, and asteroidal basalts.

They're are some kinds of terrestrial rocks that strongly resemble 
lunar breccias.  Several people have sent me ignimbrites (alias 
ash-flow tuffs or, more generically, volcaniclastic rocks) that look 
like lunar breccias.  There are also types of sedimentary processes 
on earth that can lead to impact-breccia look-alikes.

http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m118.htm
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m151.htm
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m156.htm
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m159.htm
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m195.htm
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m200.htm
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m216.htm
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m219.htm
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m225.htm
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m235.htm
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m237.htm  see this one, especially
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m260.htm
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m279.htm

Some porphyritic basalts resemble lunar breccias to the untrained eye.

http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m086.htm
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m129.htm
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m259.htm

With regard to the breccias, here are some things to look for:

Aspect ratios of clasts in lunar breccias are practically never 
greater than 3 to 1.

There is practically no preferred orientation of clasts in a lunar 
(or asteroidal) breccia.  Preferred orientation requires gravity (or 
flow, which might happen in an impact-melt breccia, but is rare).

Clasts are mostly angular, with only a bit of rounding on some.  All 
rounding is caused by impact abrasion, which isn't nearly as 
efficient as rocks being tumbled by moving water.

Clasts don't have rims and cores of any kind, except maybe from 
terrestrial weathering processes.

If a clast is layered, it's not from the Moon.  Layered rocks require 
gravity and air or water.

Lunar breccias are remarkably uncolorful - just shades of 
gray.  Nearly all the lunar meteorites from Oman are stained by 
hematite, however, causing reddish regions.  The NWA stones 
(interior) are less colorful.

Clast in lunar breccias never have geometric shapes like prisms, 
rectangles, etc.

Most brecciated lunar meteorites are regolith breccias.  These often 
have white clasts of anorthosite in a dark matrix of lithified 
soil.  Impact melt and granulitic breccias are rarer and are 
remarkably unremarkable (sawn surface).

Hope this helps.

Randy Korotev




At 10:38 04-09-09 Friday, you wrote:

>Good Morning All...  I have a rather novice question: What is the identifying
>tag or indicator that differentiates a Lunar breccia basalt from a terrestrial
>breccia?  I have cut and examined several that I have found, and not
>knowing the difference, made coasters out of them...  I know you guys that
>run to Morocco to purchase them, from time to time, have a good idea without
>taking a lab with you....
>  Thanks!
>Dennis Miller
>
>Sorry, nothing to give away, but bare with me.....
>Oh, I did give one of my non-lunar coasters to Haag.

Randy Korotev
Saint Louis, MO
korotev at wustl.edu 




From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Sep  4 14:41:46 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 11:41:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO Preventive Care Continues; Science on Hold
Message-ID: <200909041841.n84Ifl9p005367@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-138  

Preventive Care Continues; Science on Hold
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
September 04, 2009

Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter Mission Status Report 

PASADENA, Calif. -- During analysis of four safe-mode events this year,
engineers for NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter project have identified
a vulnerability to the effects of subsequent events. They are currently
developing added protection to eliminate this vulnerability while they
continue analysis of the string of incidents this year in which the
spacecraft has spontaneously rebooted its computer or switched to a
backup computer.

The team is keeping the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter in a precautionary
"safe" mode, with healthy power, temperatures and communications, while
continuing analysis and precautions subsequent to the latest rebooting,
on Aug. 26. Science observations will likely not resume for several
weeks while this preventive care is the mission's priority.

The analysis identified one possible but unlikely scenario jeopardizing
the spacecraft. This scenario would require two computer resets, each
worse than any so far, occurring within several minutes of each other in
a certain pattern.

The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, at Mars since 2006, has met the
mission's science goals and returned more data than all other Mars
missions combined. It completed its primary science phase of operations
in November 2008 but remains an important contributor to science and to
future landed missions. Continuing science observations are planned when
the spacecraft is brought out of its current precautionary mode.

Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov

2009-138



From mmurray at montrose.net  Fri Sep  4 15:52:01 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 13:52:01 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball: Huge Explosion Over Ireland
In-Reply-To: <4AA15AE2.8090000@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4AA15AE2.8090000@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <1A654687-33CE-4F3F-8749-5FAAB5306BBD@montrose.net>

Eric, and List,
Mr. Moore was quoted as saying: "If it's brighter than the full moon  
then there's a chance that part of it survived and landed," he said.

I'm not sold on the idea that size(read that same as brightness in  
this report) is the most relative factor in survival.  I tend to think  
speed and angle of entry play the bigger role in how fast a stone  
burns up.  Wouldn't a small meteor have the same chance, as a big  
meteor given the right speed and angle of entry?  A small, say 1"  
meteor, may only burn for about 1/4 to 1/2 second  versus a football  
size may burn for 5 seconds or longer.
Mike in CO



On Sep 4, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Meteorites USA wrote:

> Big Fireball,
>
> BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8239188.stm
>
> -------------------------------------------
>
> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5j4nvh5fP8c_EmrXN2HMO0iDzv9Zg
>
> Astronomers in search of meteorite
>
> (UKPA) ? 1 hour ago
>
> Astronomers are on the trail of a meteorite after a massive  
> explosion over Ireland.
>
> The fireball, said to burn as bright as the full moon, was seen  
> flashing across the country on Wednesday night. Astronomy Ireland  
> said the suspected meteor was spotted from Valentia Island,  
> Skibbereen, west Cork to Cavan and further north in Raphoe, Co  
> Donegal. Chairman David Moore believes it may have ditched in the  
> Atlantic.
>
> "If it's brighter than the full moon then there's a chance that part  
> of it survived and landed," he said.
>
> Copyright ? 2009 The Press Association. All rights reserved.
>
> ------------------------------------------
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Fri Sep  4 18:09:20 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 18:09:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball: Huge Explosion Over Ireland
Message-ID: <9821364.1252102160860.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Hi Mike and all the PHD's here on the List,

The factors that determine the success of a meteor/comet/space junk journey through the atmosphere are many and they interact infintely. They include, but are not limited to, the object's size, weight, shape, composition and structural integrity, the orientation of the entry in relation to the rotational direction and orbit of the Earth, the object's cosmic velocity and the angle and location of the point of entry vis a vis atmospheric density due to geographic location, seasonal changes and current weather. The altitude and type of surface, along with the existence, or lack thereof, of natural or man made obstructions at the impact point. These factors are obviously interelated and variable. I'm not aware of any model that would graph the percentage of success using all these data. 

If one had a large, slow moving, nickel iron meteor, entering at a shallow angle and chasing the upstream side of the planet over the antartic sea in December, I would opine it would have a very high probability of making a bolide, boom and a splash.

Looking up!

Count Deiro

     
  

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net>
>Sent: Sep 4, 2009 3:52 PM
>To: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fireball: Huge Explosion Over Ireland
>
>Eric, and List,
>Mr. Moore was quoted as saying: "If it's brighter than the full moon  
>then there's a chance that part of it survived and landed," he said.
>
>I'm not sold on the idea that size(read that same as brightness in  
>this report) is the most relative factor in survival.  I tend to think  
>speed and angle of entry play the bigger role in how fast a stone  
>burns up.  Wouldn't a small meteor have the same chance, as a big  
>meteor given the right speed and angle of entry?  A small, say 1"  
>meteor, may only burn for about 1/4 to 1/2 second  versus a football  
>size may burn for 5 seconds or longer.
>Mike in CO
>
>
>
>On Sep 4, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Meteorites USA wrote:
>
>> Big Fireball,
>>
>> BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8239188.stm
>>
>> -------------------------------------------
>>
>> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5j4nvh5fP8c_EmrXN2HMO0iDzv9Zg
>>
>> Astronomers in search of meteorite
>>
>> (UKPA) ? 1 hour ago
>>
>> Astronomers are on the trail of a meteorite after a massive  
>> explosion over Ireland.
>>
>> The fireball, said to burn as bright as the full moon, was seen  
>> flashing across the country on Wednesday night. Astronomy Ireland  
>> said the suspected meteor was spotted from Valentia Island,  
>> Skibbereen, west Cork to Cavan and further north in Raphoe, Co  
>> Donegal. Chairman David Moore believes it may have ditched in the  
>> Atlantic.
>>
>> "If it's brighter than the full moon then there's a chance that part  
>> of it survived and landed," he said.
>>
>> Copyright ? 2009 The Press Association. All rights reserved.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric Wichman
>> Meteorites USA
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From paul at meteorite.com  Fri Sep  4 19:25:18 2009
From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 16:25:18 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Promotion: eBay page now live - Sellers: Please
	check your listing
Message-ID: <4AA1A1DE.7080000@meteorite.com>

Dear List,

First, a huge thank you to all the beta-testers who gave their input.  I 
really appreciate all your help.
As the page is now live this will be the last time I bother the list 
with news about it.

eBay Sellers:  Please check your listing for accuracy and let me know if 
there are any issues.

Thank you,

Paul
http://www.meteorite.com/ebay/





From fujmon at mac.com  Fri Sep  4 19:55:12 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 13:55:12 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Labor Day weekend sale
Message-ID: <0EEC9FD7-3D9E-442A-B303-6EEAF4653FD3@mac.com>

To celebrate Labor Day and the long weekend, I have a couple of  
auctions running on ebay ending Saturday (1:05 pm PDT) and Sunday  
(6:43 pm PDT).  Up on the block are:

NWA 869 - cherry and oriented individuals
Brenham - 35g olivine packed partslice
HaH 244 - 21.6g fresh fusion crust rimmed full slice
Sah 02500 - 12.3g endcut, 31.88g individual
Bjurbole - 0.12g micro of a friable Finish fall
SaU 001 - 60g crusted individual
Henbury - 4.78g sculpted individual
Nadiabondi - 2.9g crusted individual from a rare fall
Holbrook - Perfect 1.1g full slice rimmed with fusion crust
Sulagiri - Crusted 1.09g partslice of a rare Indian fall
Olivine Bomb - Split and polished half stones of green olivine

... and much more.  These are all top quality pieces that would make a  
great addition to your collection, with many starting at 99?

http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

Have a great long weekend, and thanks for looking.

Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From dfpens01 at yahoo.com  Fri Sep  4 19:57:33 2009
From: dfpens01 at yahoo.com (David Pensenstadler)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:57:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
	September 4, 2009
Message-ID: <640097.4313.qm@web112317.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Wow!? When I saw that Gold Basin rock from Picture of the Day I thought it was my rock.? I purchased a 150 gram piece that looks almost identical to that one (except for the crack)from a prospector while searching the Gold Basin strewnfield some years ago.

Nice rock.

Dave

--- On Fri, 9/4/09, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com> wrote:

> From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 4, 2009
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Friday, September 4, 2009, 12:00 AM
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_4_2009.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---? 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



      


From grf2 at comcast.net  Fri Sep  4 20:16:28 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 20:16:28 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lunar question
References: <COL113-W34E20510F9274D79F33C58B1EE0@phx.gbl>
	<200909041810.n84IAIW20826@levee.wustl.edu>
Message-ID: <350B237B8DE843FDA27625425768864D@ASUS>

Thanks Dennis for the question and Randy for a clear summary.
Jerry Flaherty

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Randy Korotev" <korotev at wustl.edu>
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 2:10 PM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lunar question

> Dennis:
>
> I might be able to answer your question, but I need to understand the 
> question better.
>
> Do you mean "breccia basalt" as opposed to just "breccia?"  Most lunar 
> meteorites are breccias, but only a few of the breccias are basaltic. 
> Most basaltic lunar meteorites are not breccias; they're unbrecciated 
> basalts.  Did you follow that?
>
> In my opinion, in the absence of a fusion crust it's impossible to 
> identify a lunar meteorite "just by looking," and I've seen practically 
> all of them.  I have bought or been sent about 4 alleged lunar meteorites 
> from experienced collectors and dealers in the past 5 years that turned 
> out to be terrestrial rocks, eucrites, or howardites.  I've seen some 
> lunar meteorites, most notably the Kalahari stones, that don't look 
> anything like a moon rock or a any kind of meteorite.
>
> Some, if not many, terrestrial basalts "look like" martian and lunar 
> basaltic meteorites.  So far, none of the lunar or martian basaltic 
> meteorites are as vesicular as are many terrestrial basalts, but lack of 
> vesicles sure doesn't make it a planetary meteorite.   A chemical or 
> mineralogical analysis is neede to distiguish among terrestrial, martian, 
> lunar, and asteroidal basalts.
>
> They're are some kinds of terrestrial rocks that strongly resemble lunar 
> breccias.  Several people have sent me ignimbrites (alias ash-flow tuffs 
> or, more generically, volcaniclastic rocks) that look like lunar breccias. 
> There are also types of sedimentary processes on earth that can lead to 
> impact-breccia look-alikes.
>
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m118.htm
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m151.htm
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m156.htm
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m159.htm
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m195.htm
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m200.htm
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m216.htm
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m219.htm
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m225.htm
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m235.htm
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m237.htm  see this one, 
> especially
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m260.htm
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m279.htm
>
> Some porphyritic basalts resemble lunar breccias to the untrained eye.
>
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m086.htm
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m129.htm
> http://meteorites.wustl.edu/meteorwrongs/m259.htm
>
> With regard to the breccias, here are some things to look for:
>
> Aspect ratios of clasts in lunar breccias are practically never greater 
> than 3 to 1.
>
> There is practically no preferred orientation of clasts in a lunar (or 
> asteroidal) breccia.  Preferred orientation requires gravity (or flow, 
> which might happen in an impact-melt breccia, but is rare).
>
> Clasts are mostly angular, with only a bit of rounding on some.  All 
> rounding is caused by impact abrasion, which isn't nearly as efficient as 
> rocks being tumbled by moving water.
>
> Clasts don't have rims and cores of any kind, except maybe from 
> terrestrial weathering processes.
>
> If a clast is layered, it's not from the Moon.  Layered rocks require 
> gravity and air or water.
>
> Lunar breccias are remarkably uncolorful - just shades of gray.  Nearly 
> all the lunar meteorites from Oman are stained by hematite, however, 
> causing reddish regions.  The NWA stones (interior) are less colorful.
>
> Clast in lunar breccias never have geometric shapes like prisms, 
> rectangles, etc.
>
> Most brecciated lunar meteorites are regolith breccias.  These often have 
> white clasts of anorthosite in a dark matrix of lithified soil.  Impact 
> melt and granulitic breccias are rarer and are remarkably unremarkable 
> (sawn surface).
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Randy Korotev
>
>
>
>
> At 10:38 04-09-09 Friday, you wrote:
>
>>Good Morning All...  I have a rather novice question: What is the 
>>identifying
>>tag or indicator that differentiates a Lunar breccia basalt from a 
>>terrestrial
>>breccia?  I have cut and examined several that I have found, and not
>>knowing the difference, made coasters out of them...  I know you guys that
>>run to Morocco to purchase them, from time to time, have a good idea 
>>without
>>taking a lab with you....
>>  Thanks!
>>Dennis Miller
>>
>>Sorry, nothing to give away, but bare with me.....
>>Oh, I did give one of my non-lunar coasters to Haag.
>
> Randy Korotev
> Saint Louis, MO
> korotev at wustl.edu
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Sep  4 20:29:14 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 17:29:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: August 31 - September
	4, 2009
Message-ID: <200909050029.n850TEVO018913@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
August 31 - September 4, 2009

o Capri Chasma (Released 31 August 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090831a

o Dunes (Released 01 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090901a

o Dunes (Released 02 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090902na

o Dunes (Released 03 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090903a

o Rabe Crater (Released 04 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090904a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 





From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  4 21:18:33 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 18:18:33 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
Message-ID: <COL108-W62C7E9E821F360745132DA9BED0@phx.gbl>



Hi Elton and All,

I've read about the very slow cooling rate of the molten iron in various books but I don't understand why this is so. Why would it take millions of years for just a few drops of degrees? It's hard for me to envision this even accounting for bombardments and radioactive decay. Radioactivity from the original super nova event, right?  Maybe it's because I think of space as being so darned cold it wouldn't take anything long to lose heat and freeze up. I realize radioactivity takes a long time to decay but would it take a lot or so little to keep a large planetary body hot for so long? Thanks.

Carl



Eman wrote:
>I think this theory has a potential fatal flaw if what we think we know about
taenite/kamacite growth is valid. Without an insulating blanket the molten
pool will not exist in a molten state long enough to permit crystallization aka
Widmanstatten patterns.

Be it remembered that Widmanstatten pattern/crystal growth is very very slow on
the order of 10's of degrees cooling per million years. It is difficult to
develop a scenario that integrates a large crater on an Goldilocks Asteroid
which works.. ..


_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. 
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009

From mmurray at montrose.net  Fri Sep  4 21:55:34 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 19:55:34 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fireball: Huge Explosion Over Ireland
In-Reply-To: <9821364.1252102160860.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <9821364.1252102160860.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <5F88B647-A624-4354-935D-FB5AA76D207C@montrose.net>

Count Deiro,
Nicely stated.  And, about the only thing I can say in reply is that I  
agree totally with all your information.  It goes along with  
everything I have ever read on the subject.  My point was that just  
because a meteor doesn't luminesce like the moon on it's way overhead  
doesn't mean it won't still make it down.  I'm not necessarily arguing  
with Mr. Moore's statement, just adding my thoughts to it.  The quick  
little flash in the night sky might still end up making a 'tink' sound  
on some metal roof a little while later.

Hope you don't mind if I archive your response.  II thought your list  
of factors and variables was most inclusive.
Thanks
Mike

On Sep 4, 2009, at 4:09 PM, countdeiro at earthlink.net wrote:

>
> Hi Mike and all the PHD's here on the List,
>
> The factors that determine the success of a meteor/comet/space junk  
> journey through the atmosphere are many and they interact infintely.  
> They include, but are not limited to, the object's size, weight,  
> shape, composition and structural integrity, the orientation of the  
> entry in relation to the rotational direction and orbit of the  
> Earth, the object's cosmic velocity and the angle and location of  
> the point of entry vis a vis atmospheric density due to geographic  
> location, seasonal changes and current weather. The altitude and  
> type of surface, along with the existence, or lack thereof, of  
> natural or man made obstructions at the impact point. These factors  
> are obviously interelated and variable. I'm not aware of any model  
> that would graph the percentage of success using all these data.
>
> If one had a large, slow moving, nickel iron meteor, entering at a  
> shallow angle and chasing the upstream side of the planet over the  
> antartic sea in December, I would opine it would have a very high  
> probability of making a bolide, boom and a splash.
>
> Looking up!
>
> Count Deiro
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net>
>> Sent: Sep 4, 2009 3:52 PM
>> To: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>> Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
>> >
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fireball: Huge Explosion Over Ireland
>>
>> Eric, and List,
>> Mr. Moore was quoted as saying: "If it's brighter than the full moon
>> then there's a chance that part of it survived and landed," he said.
>>
>> I'm not sold on the idea that size(read that same as brightness in
>> this report) is the most relative factor in survival.  I tend to  
>> think
>> speed and angle of entry play the bigger role in how fast a stone
>> burns up.  Wouldn't a small meteor have the same chance, as a big
>> meteor given the right speed and angle of entry?  A small, say 1"
>> meteor, may only burn for about 1/4 to 1/2 second  versus a football
>> size may burn for 5 seconds or longer.
>> Mike in CO
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2009, at 12:22 PM, Meteorites USA wrote:
>>
>>> Big Fireball,
>>>
>>> BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/8239188.stm
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5j4nvh5fP8c_EmrXN2HMO0iDzv9Zg
>>>
>>> Astronomers in search of meteorite
>>>
>>> (UKPA) ? 1 hour ago
>>>
>>> Astronomers are on the trail of a meteorite after a massive
>>> explosion over Ireland.
>>>
>>> The fireball, said to burn as bright as the full moon, was seen
>>> flashing across the country on Wednesday night. Astronomy Ireland
>>> said the suspected meteor was spotted from Valentia Island,
>>> Skibbereen, west Cork to Cavan and further north in Raphoe, Co
>>> Donegal. Chairman David Moore believes it may have ditched in the
>>> Atlantic.
>>>
>>> "If it's brighter than the full moon then there's a chance that part
>>> of it survived and landed," he said.
>>>
>>> Copyright ? 2009 The Press Association. All rights reserved.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eric Wichman
>>> Meteorites USA
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep  4 21:55:42 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 18:55:42 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow colling rate of iron in space
Message-ID: <COL108-W1709FD6AAC5E052ED9C02B9BED0@phx.gbl>



Hi All,

Sorry for the double post. I did not read Dr. Rubin's last message as he had already explained it.

Carl


_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1

From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Sat Sep  5 01:14:40 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 00:14:40 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
References: <COL108-W62C7E9E821F360745132DA9BED0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <E724405E555A486FB729DF6469EBB6D9@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi,

Carl raises a lot of interesting points with his
questions, some of them still unanswered. The
cooling question, for example. The problem is
not how do you keep it hot -- it's how do you
cool it? Take a minor differentiated body like
the Earth. Our iron core is plenty hot after
4.5 billion years of "cooling." But, as with all
differentiated bodies, size matters. The smaller
the body is, the faster it cools.

A lot of the heat that melts cores (and planets)
comes with their formation. It's been calculated
that the kinetic energy of the impacts that accreted
the Earth was more than enough to melt the planet,
or at least the mantle! So, there's heat to start with.

Then, there's the possibility of internal radioactive
heating. When the solar system formed, there
were a much higher proportion of short-lived
radioactive isotopes that release energy as they
decay. There was a measurable amount of Al-26,
which rapidly decays into "normal" aluminum 27,
producing a burst of heating. (There are a lot
of arguments about where the Al-26 came from,
but none about it being there.) There was also
another intense short-lifer -- Hafnium-182 that
may have heated bodies early on.

At the start of the solar system, the proportion
of Uranium 235 in "natural" uranium was much
higher than today. Now, U235 is about 0.7% of
a natural uranium sample. 4.5 billion years ago,
it was 24%. That's enriched to the point that
would be called bomb-grade or fast reactor fuel
grade today!

There was enough U235 in terrestrial uranium
deposits for them to perk along as a natural nuclear
reactor in the early days of the Earth. In Gabon, in
Africa, there was a natural nuclear reactor that only
quit running about 2 billion years ago. The uranium
in the Earth contributes to its heat production, though
again there are arguments as to how it does it. Where
there are antineutrinos, there is actinide decay, and
the Kamioka, Japan, detector counts about 16.2 million
antineutrinos per square centimeter per second
streaming out from Earth's core, the result of 30-36
terawatts of nuclear reactions. Again, where and how
are big questions.

Differentiation is when a body gets big enough to get
hot at its center from the force of gravity-induced
pressure. Iron in the rock-iron mixture melts and drips
down to center forming a molten core surrounded by a
melted (or almost melted) rock mantle. The rock on the
outside cools and insulates the molten core., slowing
its heat loss. We used to think only very big bodies could
differentiate, but it seems that objects "only" 120 miles
in diameter may have been capable of differentiation in
the early solar system. Even small details have a big
effect on slowing heat loss. It turns out that rocky dust
and particles (regolith) is a very good insulator. Just a
few feet of regolith helps keep a body warm.

Whenever you pick up an iron meteorite, you are holding a
piece of the formerly melted core of a differentiated body in
your hand. Because I am biased toward physical processes,
I would call any body that was big enough to differentiate
a "planet." But there's another argument we're all too familiar
with, so I'll just keep typing "differentiated body." But "planet"
is so much shorter...

The point about iron meteorites is that they are, for the most
part, completely iron (and nickel and that stuff) -- they are
100% core material. We all know most meteoroids are chips
off asteroids, so there must be a large number of iron asteroids,
and -- there are. To have a 10-mile or 20-mile long chunk of
differentiated body core orbiting, there must have been a
once-differentiated body that was smashed into bits, or at
the least chunks. And of course, there "worlds" that are
pure iron. The asteroid 16 Psyche has the radar spectrum
of pure refined metal and it's 260 kilometers in diameter!
Is that a "stripped" core or did is form deep in the inner
system, too near the Sun to be anything but iron-nickel?
See, more questions...

Whole "worlds" collided and destroyed. Well, how many such
worlds were there? See, interesting questions always lead to
more interesting questions. We divide up irons into three kinds,
which correspond to a little nickel, medium nickel, and lots of
nickel (hexahedrites, octahedrites, ataxites), but there are many
other elements dissolved in the iron just as nickel is. Gallium,
germanium, iridium are all tough and hard to melt, like nickel,
but they dissolve into the iron melt without loss because of their
high melting points.

Gallium, germanium, and iridium exist in proportions that cover
a wide range of concentrations. There's an iron (Butler) with 0.2%
germanium and there are irons with 1/100000th of that amount.
Obviously, they didn't come from the same core! Even gallium
has a thousand-fold range. If you plot the abundances of all
four elements, even allowing for poor mixing, you end up with
at least 16 total different source bodies for iron meteorites.
Well, Wasson decided it was 16 groups.

Wow! 16 parent bodies! Well, no. There is a large group of irons
that don't fit into the 16 groups. They not a 17th group; they're
oddballs. None of them share enough in common with the other
70-80 odd irons to be related. They're orphans. Each is its own
group. So, we have 16 parent bodies represented by 10-20
specimens and 70 or so that are the only representative of their
parent body. That's 85 or 90 parent differentiated bodies that
were disrupted.

Personally, I think that the molten metal cores of rapidly
spinning parent bodies would mix quite uniformly within
a few millions of years, much less 100 million. There would
be early vigorous convection, blah, blah. I think the estimate
of <100 parent bodies is hedging. I think it's more like 200
to 250, but who cares what I think? (I get that figure by
assuming that any elemental concentration variance in a
"group" greater than an order of magnitude is "lumping"
and the group ought to be split at that point.)

Another point to be made is that even the smaller estimate
of parent bodies for iron meteorites is noticeably larger
than the number of parent bodies for stone meteorites.
That could mean a lot of things. It is a puzzle -- more large
disrupted differentiated bodies than there are surviving
undifferentiated bodies (chondrites by definition have
not been differentiated). Most early bodies differentiated?
Most early bodies were destroyed?

Obviously, the early solar system was a rough neighborhood.
It takes a really powerful impact to fracture and splinter iron
cores that were probably already cooled to solidity. Isotope
dating helps place some of the events in time. Those IAB irons
which are breccias of iron and chondrites? They have very
old isotope dates; they formed very early in the history of
the solar system, ancient events. Most irons have formation
dates between 4.5 and 4.6 billion years ago. But others,
mysteriously, do not. The Weekero Station IIE has a Rb/Sr
age of only 4.38 billion years and the Kodaikanal IIE of only
3.8 billion years. I would sure like to know their story.

And since Carl's original question was about mesosiderites,
one last puzzle about them. The isotopic dates of mesosiderites
(argon 40) cluster very tightly around 3.9 billion years old.
Some attribute that to an immense collision and re-assembly
between a naked iron core and a basaltic crusted asteroid,
both of them of very large size. Others attribute the dating
to the formation of the mesosiderites in a very large almost
Ceres-sized asteroid with very, very slow cooling that was
suddenly disrupted. One asteroid or two -- it must have
been one heck of whack!

Whenever you pick up an iron meteorite, you are holding a
piece of the dead heart of a world... That's a thought.


Sterling K. Webb
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:18 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space




Hi Elton and All,

I've read about the very slow cooling rate of the molten iron in various 
books but I don't understand why this is so. Why would it take millions 
of years for just a few drops of degrees? It's hard for me to envision 
this even accounting for bombardments and radioactive decay. 
Radioactivity from the original super nova event, right?  Maybe it's 
because I think of space as being so darned cold it wouldn't take 
anything long to lose heat and freeze up. I realize radioactivity takes 
a long time to decay but would it take a lot or so little to keep a 
large planetary body hot for so long? Thanks.

Carl



Eman wrote:
>I think this theory has a potential fatal flaw if what we think we know 
>about
taenite/kamacite growth is valid. Without an insulating blanket the 
molten
pool will not exist in a molten state long enough to permit 
crystallization aka
Widmanstatten patterns.

Be it remembered that Widmanstatten pattern/crystal growth is very very 
slow on
the order of 10's of degrees cooling per million years. It is difficult 
to
develop a scenario that integrates a large crater on an Goldilocks 
Asteroid
which works.. ..


_________________________________________________________________
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From mlblood at cox.net  Sat Sep  5 06:47:09 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 03:47:09 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Life
In-Reply-To: <89C91185FFBD4B6680DC53E894D55543@ASUS>
Message-ID: <C6C78FBD.7149%mlblood@cox.net>

Hi Sterling,
        OK, when I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
        Best wishes, Michael
PS: But please, we don't need no stinking badges!


> From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:45 AM
> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Cc: <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>; "Michael Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] COME ON!  Alien Life Topic
> 
>> Michael, List,
>> 
>>    I completely agree that the occasional movie
>> reference is non-meteoritic (unless the movie is
>> about meteors, asteroids and such), but the connection between meteorites
>> and life that may exist off this planet is as intertwined as
>> any two topics could be.
>> 
>>    The hypothesis that meteorites could bring life (or alien life) to
>> Earth is almost as old as the recognition that meteorites actually do fall
>> from the sky. In 1864, Louis Pasteur performed
>> careful experimentation to extract, without contamination, a sample from
>> the depths of the Orgueil meteorite to culture for micro-organisms.
>> He did so because he was searching for an
>> alternate origin for life on Earth in distinction
>> to spontaneous generation, which he had already
>> disproved in his laboratory.
>> 
>>    The result of his search for microbes in Orgeil was negative, BTW.
>> 
>>    Every few decades there is a meteorite-life
>> issue that becomes a matter of hot dispute in
>> science and the broader world. The latest was the Martian meteorite with
>> traces of microbial life, or was there? There were many hundreds of posts
>> on this List to one side or the other as
>> that dispute raged on.
>> 
>>    It's an on-going debate. (There was another claim of fossils in Orgueil
>> in 2004!) The entire question of the existence of any life off this
>> planet is germane to meteorites even if specific
>> meteoritic evidence is not in question. The two
>> subjects are intimately related. IF there is any
>> other life, meteorites would potentially present the easiest evidence to
>> access and the only samples of "otherworldly" matter that we have. If
>> there is no life (as has been alleged in these posts), much research on
>> meteorites is being wasted.
>> 
>>    We all have to recognize that everyone of us
>> brings a different perspective to the subject of
>> meteorites. For example, the question of whether
>> or not a particular meteorite was or was not a
>> "hammer" is of only the mildest scientific interest,
>> being a purely anecdotal matter, and is largely irrelevant.
>> 
>>    However, it is to be recognized that that subject
>> is of great interest in the arcana of collectorship
>> and highly important to some (but not to others).
>> However, since all of us DO bring a different perspective to the subject,
>> it would be, well,
>> impolite, for those who are less interested to tell those that are most
>> interested to stop posting about it. Likewise, the long sequences of Posts
>> about the cost per gram of this or that stone -- it's like listening to
>> the farmers down at the round
>> table at the Chatterbox Cafe talk about the price of corn or hogs --
>> intensely interesting if you sell corn or hogs, but if not it's just
>> fatback talk...
>> 
>>    This is not the Meteorite Collectors' List, nor
>> the Meteorite Commerce List, nor the Meteorite Market List, nor the
>> Meteorite Hunter's List, nor
>> the Meteorite Trade and Freebies List, nor the Meteorite Impact List, not
>> the Meteorite Crater List, nor the Meteorite History List, nor the
>> Meteorite Stamp and Coin List, nor the Meteor Shower List, nor the
>> Meteorite People List, nor the Meteorite Theoretical Science List, nor the
>> Meteorite Petrology List, nor the Asteroid List, the Planetary List, the
>> Interstellar Dust List, nor the Alien Life List, nor even The Meteorite
>> Quibble List --- it's ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
>> 
>>    It's the Meteorite [Inclusive] List, and it's far
>> better off for being what it is than if it were too
>> narrowly defined, maddening as it may be at
>> times.
>> 
>> 
>> Sterling K. Webb
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Blood" <mlblood at cox.net>
>> To: "GREG LINDH" <geeg48 at msn.com>; <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
>> Cc: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] COME ON! Alien Life Topic
>> 
>> 
>>> PLEASE stop this Alian Live and Movies/TV
>>> Crapolla on the METEORITE LIST.
>>>        MLB
>>> 
>> 
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Sat Sep  5 07:38:36 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 07:38:36 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 5,
	2009
Message-ID: <bbb.579f4ff4.37d3a7bc@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_5_2009.html

----  



From zneutronz at aol.com  Sat Sep  5 11:26:25 2009
From: zneutronz at aol.com (zneutronz at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 11:26:25 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] nwa4483 for sale
Message-ID: <8CBFC545DEC2717-33C8-C7E3@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com>

hi friends !

for sale :

beautiful endcut of nwa4483, 5.612g, lunar granulitic

for pictures please contact me ! make me a fair offer !

i will sell for a fantastic fair price 
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks,

oliver

imca #6131


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 13:23:54 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 10:23:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] thy givieth/thy receiveth
Message-ID: <216386.63752.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Well who says giving does not have it's rewards.I just got a 27 gram slice of SEAGRAVES "C", Texas from jimmy harvey.My very own freebie.Now that is nice!A big thank you to jimmy for his genorocity.I also got a copy of? THE ART OF METEORITE COLLECTING from gary fujihari.Thanks also to?gary.Just to let you all know,I do the givaways not looking for anything in return.I do them because I like to and I can.It is not sacraligious to givawy meteorites.There are alot of people who have benefitted from my givings.I just wish certain people could look past all the crap that I have been dealt out and realize,hey it?feels good to give.Have a great weekend and go CHICAGO BEARS.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


      


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Sat Sep  5 13:53:08 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 12:53:08 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] CORRECTION to Slow cooling rate of irons in space
References: <COL108-W62C7E9E821F360745132DA9BED0@phx.gbl>
	<E724405E555A486FB729DF6469EBB6D9@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <693097702CDB462FBCC314BA4CA996A9@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, List,

Aluminum 26 decays to Magnesium 26, of course,
not Al-27, impossibly uphill. Thanks to Piper Hollier
for pointing out that cerebral short circuit. Long
emails at one in the morning invite the attack of
the dreaded brain fart.

Aluminum-26 to Mg-26 has a halflife of 710,000
years so its decay is quick and intense. Hafnium-182
has a halflife of 9 million years. Also on the isotope list,
discovered (about 12) or suspected, are Beryllium-10
(1,500,000 years), plutonium-244 (80,000,000 years),
lead-205 (6,500,000), manganese-53 (3,700,000 years),
calcium-41 (103,000 years), as well as titanium-50,
nickel-62, zirconium-96, chlorine-36, samarium-can't
read-the-number, iodine-129, and palladium-107, (I got
too lazy to look up the halflifes after a while, too.)

If you can discover a trace of a short-lifer or its decay
products in a sealed package (like a meteorite or a
planet), it's almost certain they were present in quantity
at the beginning of the solar system.

Three explanations:

1.) the Sun and other local stars inherited this mix
from the molecular clouds they condensed from,

2.) they were injected by a nearby supernova or two,

3.) the short-lived isotopes were created by the intense
early radiation of the Sun in its own nebula.

You may chose any one, two, or all three explanations
and you will find those who agree with you and those who
disagree with you. The failure to find (yet) traces of
tin-120 and curium-247 argues against the very close
supernova source.


Sterling K. Webb
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sterling K. Webb" sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net
To: "Carl 's" carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com; 
meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space


Hi,

Carl raises a lot of interesting points with his
questions, some of them still unanswered. The
cooling question, for example. The problem is...

[rest of message omitted] 



From grf2 at comcast.net  Sat Sep  5 17:56:38 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 17:56:38 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
References: <COL108-W62C7E9E821F360745132DA9BED0@phx.gbl>
	<E724405E555A486FB729DF6469EBB6D9@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <F3675F1126924D09A89753F1E2019E6E@ASUS>

so informative thank you
The classification of irons is less of a mystery but still needs further 
"distilling" for the masses [e-r-r-r, me] Ahh I see an addendum. perhaps it 
will elucidate.
Jerry F

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 1:14 AM
To: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space

> Hi,
>
> Carl raises a lot of interesting points with his
> questions, some of them still unanswered. The
> cooling question, for example. The problem is
> not how do you keep it hot -- it's how do you
> cool it? Take a minor differentiated body like
> the Earth. Our iron core is plenty hot after
> 4.5 billion years of "cooling." But, as with all
> differentiated bodies, size matters. The smaller
> the body is, the faster it cools.
>
> A lot of the heat that melts cores (and planets)
> comes with their formation. It's been calculated
> that the kinetic energy of the impacts that accreted
> the Earth was more than enough to melt the planet,
> or at least the mantle! So, there's heat to start with.
>
> Then, there's the possibility of internal radioactive
> heating. When the solar system formed, there
> were a much higher proportion of short-lived
> radioactive isotopes that release energy as they
> decay. There was a measurable amount of Al-26,
> which rapidly decays into "normal" aluminum 27,
> producing a burst of heating. (There are a lot
> of arguments about where the Al-26 came from,
> but none about it being there.) There was also
> another intense short-lifer -- Hafnium-182 that
> may have heated bodies early on.
>
> At the start of the solar system, the proportion
> of Uranium 235 in "natural" uranium was much
> higher than today. Now, U235 is about 0.7% of
> a natural uranium sample. 4.5 billion years ago,
> it was 24%. That's enriched to the point that
> would be called bomb-grade or fast reactor fuel
> grade today!
>
> There was enough U235 in terrestrial uranium
> deposits for them to perk along as a natural nuclear
> reactor in the early days of the Earth. In Gabon, in
> Africa, there was a natural nuclear reactor that only
> quit running about 2 billion years ago. The uranium
> in the Earth contributes to its heat production, though
> again there are arguments as to how it does it. Where
> there are antineutrinos, there is actinide decay, and
> the Kamioka, Japan, detector counts about 16.2 million
> antineutrinos per square centimeter per second
> streaming out from Earth's core, the result of 30-36
> terawatts of nuclear reactions. Again, where and how
> are big questions.
>
> Differentiation is when a body gets big enough to get
> hot at its center from the force of gravity-induced
> pressure. Iron in the rock-iron mixture melts and drips
> down to center forming a molten core surrounded by a
> melted (or almost melted) rock mantle. The rock on the
> outside cools and insulates the molten core., slowing
> its heat loss. We used to think only very big bodies could
> differentiate, but it seems that objects "only" 120 miles
> in diameter may have been capable of differentiation in
> the early solar system. Even small details have a big
> effect on slowing heat loss. It turns out that rocky dust
> and particles (regolith) is a very good insulator. Just a
> few feet of regolith helps keep a body warm.
>
> Whenever you pick up an iron meteorite, you are holding a
> piece of the formerly melted core of a differentiated body in
> your hand. Because I am biased toward physical processes,
> I would call any body that was big enough to differentiate
> a "planet." But there's another argument we're all too familiar
> with, so I'll just keep typing "differentiated body." But "planet"
> is so much shorter...
>
> The point about iron meteorites is that they are, for the most
> part, completely iron (and nickel and that stuff) -- they are
> 100% core material. We all know most meteoroids are chips
> off asteroids, so there must be a large number of iron asteroids,
> and -- there are. To have a 10-mile or 20-mile long chunk of
> differentiated body core orbiting, there must have been a
> once-differentiated body that was smashed into bits, or at
> the least chunks. And of course, there "worlds" that are
> pure iron. The asteroid 16 Psyche has the radar spectrum
> of pure refined metal and it's 260 kilometers in diameter!
> Is that a "stripped" core or did is form deep in the inner
> system, too near the Sun to be anything but iron-nickel?
> See, more questions...
>
> Whole "worlds" collided and destroyed. Well, how many such
> worlds were there? See, interesting questions always lead to
> more interesting questions. We divide up irons into three kinds,
> which correspond to a little nickel, medium nickel, and lots of
> nickel (hexahedrites, octahedrites, ataxites), but there are many
> other elements dissolved in the iron just as nickel is. Gallium,
> germanium, iridium are all tough and hard to melt, like nickel,
> but they dissolve into the iron melt without loss because of their
> high melting points.
>
> Gallium, germanium, and iridium exist in proportions that cover
> a wide range of concentrations. There's an iron (Butler) with 0.2%
> germanium and there are irons with 1/100000th of that amount.
> Obviously, they didn't come from the same core! Even gallium
> has a thousand-fold range. If you plot the abundances of all
> four elements, even allowing for poor mixing, you end up with
> at least 16 total different source bodies for iron meteorites.
> Well, Wasson decided it was 16 groups.
>
> Wow! 16 parent bodies! Well, no. There is a large group of irons
> that don't fit into the 16 groups. They not a 17th group; they're
> oddballs. None of them share enough in common with the other
> 70-80 odd irons to be related. They're orphans. Each is its own
> group. So, we have 16 parent bodies represented by 10-20
> specimens and 70 or so that are the only representative of their
> parent body. That's 85 or 90 parent differentiated bodies that
> were disrupted.
>
> Personally, I think that the molten metal cores of rapidly
> spinning parent bodies would mix quite uniformly within
> a few millions of years, much less 100 million. There would
> be early vigorous convection, blah, blah. I think the estimate
> of <100 parent bodies is hedging. I think it's more like 200
> to 250, but who cares what I think? (I get that figure by
> assuming that any elemental concentration variance in a
> "group" greater than an order of magnitude is "lumping"
> and the group ought to be split at that point.)
>
> Another point to be made is that even the smaller estimate
> of parent bodies for iron meteorites is noticeably larger
> than the number of parent bodies for stone meteorites.
> That could mean a lot of things. It is a puzzle -- more large
> disrupted differentiated bodies than there are surviving
> undifferentiated bodies (chondrites by definition have
> not been differentiated). Most early bodies differentiated?
> Most early bodies were destroyed?
>
> Obviously, the early solar system was a rough neighborhood.
> It takes a really powerful impact to fracture and splinter iron
> cores that were probably already cooled to solidity. Isotope
> dating helps place some of the events in time. Those IAB irons
> which are breccias of iron and chondrites? They have very
> old isotope dates; they formed very early in the history of
> the solar system, ancient events. Most irons have formation
> dates between 4.5 and 4.6 billion years ago. But others,
> mysteriously, do not. The Weekero Station IIE has a Rb/Sr
> age of only 4.38 billion years and the Kodaikanal IIE of only
> 3.8 billion years. I would sure like to know their story.
>
> And since Carl's original question was about mesosiderites,
> one last puzzle about them. The isotopic dates of mesosiderites
> (argon 40) cluster very tightly around 3.9 billion years old.
> Some attribute that to an immense collision and re-assembly
> between a naked iron core and a basaltic crusted asteroid,
> both of them of very large size. Others attribute the dating
> to the formation of the mesosiderites in a very large almost
> Ceres-sized asteroid with very, very slow cooling that was
> suddenly disrupted. One asteroid or two -- it must have
> been one heck of whack!
>
> Whenever you pick up an iron meteorite, you are holding a
> piece of the dead heart of a world... That's a thought.
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:18 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
>
>
>
>
> Hi Elton and All,
>
> I've read about the very slow cooling rate of the molten iron in various 
> books but I don't understand why this is so. Why would it take millions of 
> years for just a few drops of degrees? It's hard for me to envision this 
> even accounting for bombardments and radioactive decay. Radioactivity from 
> the original super nova event, right?  Maybe it's because I think of space 
> as being so darned cold it wouldn't take anything long to lose heat and 
> freeze up. I realize radioactivity takes a long time to decay but would it 
> take a lot or so little to keep a large planetary body hot for so long? 
> Thanks.
>
> Carl
>
>
>
> Eman wrote:
>>I think this theory has a potential fatal flaw if what we think we know 
>>about
> taenite/kamacite growth is valid. Without an insulating blanket the molten
> pool will not exist in a molten state long enough to permit 
> crystallization aka
> Widmanstatten patterns.
>
> Be it remembered that Widmanstatten pattern/crystal growth is very very 
> slow on
> the order of 10's of degrees cooling per million years. It is difficult to
> develop a scenario that integrates a large crater on an Goldilocks 
> Asteroid
> which works.. ..
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From pshugar at clearwire.net  Sat Sep  5 19:34:17 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 18:34:17 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
References: <COL108-W62C7E9E821F360745132DA9BED0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <5157889102A34873B4939D9B2E96EDCE@laptop>

May I please inject just the one comment?
In space, the side facing the star (in our case, the sun) can get quite hot, 
ie close to the sun --hotter, and further away---less hot.
Conversly--the side away from the star can approach very high negative 
degrees, ie 250 to 400 below zero.
This is the "so darn cold" you were thinking about.
Pete

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:18 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space




Hi Elton and All,

I've read about the very slow cooling rate of the molten iron in various 
books but I don't understand why this is so. Why would it take millions of 
years for just a few drops of degrees? It's hard for me to envision this 
even accounting for bombardments and radioactive decay. Radioactivity from 
the original super nova event, right?  Maybe it's because I think of space 
as being so darned cold it wouldn't take anything long to lose heat and 
freeze up. I realize radioactivity takes a long time to decay but would it 
take a lot or so little to keep a large planetary body hot for so long? 
Thanks.

Carl



Eman wrote:
>I think this theory has a potential fatal flaw if what we think we know 
>about
taenite/kamacite growth is valid. Without an insulating blanket the molten
pool will not exist in a molten state long enough to permit crystallization 
aka
Widmanstatten patterns.

Be it remembered that Widmanstatten pattern/crystal growth is very very slow 
on
the order of 10's of degrees cooling per million years. It is difficult to
develop a scenario that integrates a large crater on an Goldilocks Asteroid
which works.. ..


_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 20:00:59 2009
From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 17:00:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
In-Reply-To: <5157889102A34873B4939D9B2E96EDCE@laptop>
Message-ID: <360005.92513.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

The "so darn cold" thing refers to objects not being lit/heated by their star. Day sides will heat up until they radiate more heat than they absorb. Night sides will cool as quickly as physics (and any atmosphere) allows.
If one face of Mars stayed pointing at the sun all the time, it would be quite warm on a permanently daylit side. It attains 20degC at the equator during the day as it is.

Given that the only method of heat transfer is conduction, requiring direct contact of atoms, until you get to the surface where they can radiate heat away, it seems more reasonable that a moderately sized body may keep a hot core warm for a very long period of time. Particularly if you have the core covered with a crust made of poorly adjoined fragements of rock, acting as a blanket possibly hundreds of km deep.

The physics of the planetary cooling has long been worked out. For me, the amazing thing is just how the mass of the planet changes the cooling time.
Mars is believed to have stayed hot enough to keep it's volcanoes going until 1Ga ago. Now it's interior is too cold. 
Smaller bodies generally stopped being active much earlier. Venus they're not sure about.

Rob Mc
Rob McC


--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net> wrote:

> From: Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
> To: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 12:34 AM
> May I please inject just the one
> comment?
> In space, the side facing the star (in our case, the sun)
> can get quite hot, ie close to the sun --hotter, and further
> away---less hot.
> Conversly--the side away from the star can approach very
> high negative degrees, ie 250 to 400 below zero.
> This is the "so darn cold" you were thinking about.
> Pete
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:18 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in
> space
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Elton and All,
> 
> I've read about the very slow cooling rate of the molten
> iron in various books but I don't understand why this is so.
> Why would it take millions of years for just a few drops of
> degrees? It's hard for me to envision this even accounting
> for bombardments and radioactive decay. Radioactivity from
> the original super nova event, right?? Maybe it's
> because I think of space as being so darned cold it wouldn't
> take anything long to lose heat and freeze up. I realize
> radioactivity takes a long time to decay but would it take a
> lot or so little to keep a large planetary body hot for so
> long? Thanks.
> 
> Carl
> 
> 
> 
> Eman wrote:
> > I think this theory has a potential fatal flaw if what
> we think we know about
> taenite/kamacite growth is valid. Without an insulating
> blanket the molten
> pool will not exist in a molten state long enough to permit
> crystallization aka
> Widmanstatten patterns.
> 
> Be it remembered that Widmanstatten pattern/crystal growth
> is very very slow on
> the order of 10's of degrees cooling per million years. It
> is difficult to
> develop a scenario that integrates a large crater on an
> Goldilocks Asteroid
> which works.. ..
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really
> fast.
> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 20:30:32 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 17:30:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Cooling rates
Message-ID: <467424.57234.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

Could the Widmanstatten patterns simply be the result of incredibly high compression instead?

E.P.


      


From cynapse at charter.net  Sat Sep  5 22:08:28 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 21:08:28 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] We need more dead doctors
In-Reply-To: <8CBFC545DEC2717-33C8-C7E3@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CBFC545DEC2717-33C8-C7E3@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <2366a551mdhd03svloj67pfm85rn7icso1@4ax.com>

I was reading a collection of Australian aboriginal folklore, and at the end of
one of the stories was a good description of a bolide.  





22.  GOONUR, THE WOMAN-DOCTOR

Goonur was a clever old woman-doctor, who lived with her son, Goonur,
and his two wives. The wives were Guddah the red lizard, and Beereeun
the small, prickly lizard. One day the two wives had done something to
anger Goonur, their husband, and he gave them both a great beating.
After their beating they went away by themselves. They said to each
other that they could stand their present life no longer, and yet there
was no escape unless they killed their husband. They decided they would
do that. But how? That was the question. It must be by cunning.

At last they decided on a plan. They dug a big hole in the sand near
the creek, filled it with water, and covered the hole over with boughs,
leaves, and grass.

"Now we will go," they said, "and tell our husband that we have found a
big bandicoot's nest."

Back they went to the camp, and told Goonur that they had seen a big
nest of bandicoots near the creek; that if he sneaked up he would be
able to surprise them and get the lot.

Off went Goonur in great haste. He sneaked up to within a couple of
feet of the nest, then gave a spring on to the top of it. And only when
he felt the bough top give in with him, and he sank down into water,
did he realise that he had been tricked. Too late then to save himself,
for he was drowning and could not escape. His wives had watched the
success of their stratagem from a distance. When they were certain that
they had effectually disposed of their hated husband, they went back to
the camp. Goonur, the mother, soon missed her son, made inquiries of
his wives, but gained no information from them. Two or three days
passed, and yet Goonur, the son, returned not. Seriously alarmed at his
long absence without having given her notice of his intention, the
mother determined to follow his track. She took up his trail where she
had last seen him leave the camp. This she followed until she reached
the so-called bandicoot's nest. Here his tracks disappeared, and
nowhere could she find a sign of his having returned from this place.
She felt in the hole with her yarn stick, and soon felt that there was
something large there in the water. She cut a forked stick and tried to
raise the body and get it out, for she felt sure it must be her son.
But she could not raise it; stick after stick broke in the effort. At
last she cut a midjee stick and tried with that, and then she was
successful. When she brought out the body she found it was indeed her
son. She dragged the body to an ant bed, and watched intently to see if
the stings of the ants brought any sign of returning life. Soon her
hope was realised, and after a violent twitching of the muscles her son
regained consciousness. As soon as he was able to do so, he told her of
the trick his wives had played on him.

Goonur, the mother, was furious. "No more shall they have you as
husband. You shall live hidden in my dardurr. When we get near the camp
you can get into this long, big comebee, and I will take you in. When
you want to go hunting I will take you from the camp in this comebee,
and when we are out of sight you can get out and hunt as of old."

And thus they managed for some time to keep his return a secret; and
little the wives knew that their husband was alive and in his mother's
camp. But as day after day Goonur, the mother, returned from hunting
loaded with spoils, they began to think she must have help from some
one; for surely, they said, no old woman could be so successful in
hunting. There was a mystery they were sure, and they were determined
to find it out.

"See," they said, "she goes out alone. She is old, and yet she brings
home more than we two do together, and we are young. To-day she brought
opossums, piggiebillahs, honey yams, quatha, and many things. We got
little, yet we went far. We will watch her."

The next time old Goonur went out, carrying her big comebee, the wives
watched her.

"Look," they said, "how slowly she goes. She could not climb trees for
opossums--she is too old and weak; look how she staggers."

They went cautiously after her, and saw when she was some distance from
the camp that she put down her comebee. And out of it, to their
amazement, stepped Goonur, their husband.

"Ah," they said, "this is her secret. She must have found him, and, as
she is a great doctor, she was able to bring him to life again. We must
wait until she leaves him, and then go to him, and beg to know where he
has been, and pretend joy that he is back, or else surely now he is
alive again he will sometime kill us."

Accordingly, when Goonur was alone the two wives ran to him, and said:

"Why, Goonur, our husband, did you leave us? Where have you been all
the time that we, your wives, have mourned for you? Long has the time
been without you, and we, your wives, have been sad that you came no
more to our dardurr."

Goonur, the husband, affected to believe their sorrow was genuine, and
that they did not know when they directed him to the bandicoot's nest
that it was a trap. Which trap, but for his mother, might have been his
grave.

They all went hunting together, and when they had killed enough for
food they returned to the camp. As they came near to the camp, Goonur,
the mother, saw them coming, and cried out:

"Would you again be tricked by your wives? Did I save you from death
only that you might again be killed? I spared them, but I would I had
slain them, if again they are to have a chance of killing you, my son.
Many are the wiles of women, and another time I might not be able to
save you. Let them live if you will it so, my son, but not with you.
They tried to lure you to death; you are no longer theirs, mine only
now, for did I not bring you back from the dead?"

But Goonur the husband said, "In truth did you save me, my mother, and
these my wives rejoice that you did. They too, as I was, were deceived
by the bandicoot's nest, the work of an enemy yet to be found. See, my
mother, do not the looks of love in their eyes, and words of love on
their lips vouch for their truth? We will be as we have been, my
mother, and live again in peace."

And thus craftily did Goonur the husband deceive his wives and make
them believe he trusted them wholly, while in reality his mind was even
then plotting vengeance. In a few days he had his plans ready. Having
cut and pointed sharply two stakes, he stuck them firmly in the creek,
then he placed two logs on the bank, in front of the sticks, which were
underneath the water, and invisible. Having made his preparations, he
invited his wives to come for a bathe. He said when they reached the
creek:

"See those two logs on the bank, you jump in each from one and see
which can dive the furthest. I will go first to see you as you come
up." And in he jumped, carefully avoiding the pointed stakes. "Right,"
he called. "All is clear here, jump in."

Then the two wives ran down the bank each to a log and jumped from it.
Well had Goonur calculated the distance, for both jumped right on to
the stakes placed in the water to catch them, and which stuck firmly
into them, holding them under the water.

"Well am I avenged," said Goonur. "No more will my wives lay traps to
catch me." And he walked off to the camp.

His mother asked him where his wives were. "They left me," he said, "to
get bees' nests."

But as day by day passed and the wives returned not, the old woman
began to suspect that her son knew more than he said. She asked him no
more, but quietly watched her opportunity, when her son was away
hunting, and then followed the tracks of the wives. She tracked them to
the creek, and as she saw no tracks of their return, she went into the
creek, felt about, and there found the two bodies fast on the stakes.
She managed to get them off and out of the creek, then she determined
to try and restore them to life, for she was angry that her son had not
told her what he had done, but had deceived her as well as his wives.
She rubbed the women with some of her medicines, dressed the wounds
made by the stakes, and then dragged them both on to ants' nests and
watched their bodies as the ants crawled over them, biting them. She
had not long to wait; soon they began to move and come to life again.

As soon as they were restored Goonur took them back to the camp and
said to Goonur her son, "Now once did I use my knowledge to restore
life to you, and again have I used it to restore life to your wives.
You are all mine now, and I desire that you live in peace and never
more deceive me, or never again shall I use my skill for you:"

And they lived for a long while together, and when the Mother Doctor
died there was a beautiful, dazzlingly bright falling star, followed by
a sound as of a sharp clap of thunder, and all the tribes round when
they saw and heard this said, "A great doctor must have died, for that
is the sign." And when the wives died, they were taken up to the sky,
where they are now known as Gwaibillah, the red star, so called from
its bright red colour, owing, the legend says, to the red marks left by
the stakes on the bodies of the two women, and which nothing could
efface.


From cynapse at charter.net  Sat Sep  5 22:09:02 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 21:09:02 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] We need more dead doctors
In-Reply-To: <2366a551mdhd03svloj67pfm85rn7icso1@4ax.com>
References: <8CBFC545DEC2717-33C8-C7E3@webmail-d094.sysops.aol.com>
	<2366a551mdhd03svloj67pfm85rn7icso1@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <ed66a59b0d2qtfv6eofjau23mbhuipcnd7@4ax.com>

Forgot the link:

http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?fk_files=1289968&pageno=38


From info at meteorites.com.au  Sat Sep  5 22:10:25 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:10:25 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
In-Reply-To: <360005.92513.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <360005.92513.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0C802D459CFB49579EFFEC708A6D4467@JeffPC>

This is one of the best threads I've seen on the list for quite a while. 
Interesting stuff!

So have the Martian Rovers found specific evidence from any changes that may 
have taken place on Mars when it cooled? And what happens when the Earth 
cools? Will this affect things like the Earth's electromagnetic field?

Cheers,

Jeff




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space


The "so darn cold" thing refers to objects not being lit/heated by their 
star. Day sides will heat up until they radiate more heat than they absorb. 
Night sides will cool as quickly as physics (and any atmosphere) allows.
If one face of Mars stayed pointing at the sun all the time, it would be 
quite warm on a permanently daylit side. It attains 20degC at the equator 
during the day as it is.

Given that the only method of heat transfer is conduction, requiring direct 
contact of atoms, until you get to the surface where they can radiate heat 
away, it seems more reasonable that a moderately sized body may keep a hot 
core warm for a very long period of time. Particularly if you have the core 
covered with a crust made of poorly adjoined fragements of rock, acting as a 
blanket possibly hundreds of km deep.

The physics of the planetary cooling has long been worked out. For me, the 
amazing thing is just how the mass of the planet changes the cooling time.
Mars is believed to have stayed hot enough to keep it's volcanoes going 
until 1Ga ago. Now it's interior is too cold.
Smaller bodies generally stopped being active much earlier. Venus they're 
not sure about.

Rob Mc
Rob McC


--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net> wrote:

> From: Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
> To: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>, 
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 12:34 AM
> May I please inject just the one
> comment?
> In space, the side facing the star (in our case, the sun)
> can get quite hot, ie close to the sun --hotter, and further
> away---less hot.
> Conversly--the side away from the star can approach very
> high negative degrees, ie 250 to 400 below zero.
> This is the "so darn cold" you were thinking about.
> Pete
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:18 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in
> space
>
>
>
>
> Hi Elton and All,
>
> I've read about the very slow cooling rate of the molten
> iron in various books but I don't understand why this is so.
> Why would it take millions of years for just a few drops of
> degrees? It's hard for me to envision this even accounting
> for bombardments and radioactive decay. Radioactivity from
> the original super nova event, right? Maybe it's
> because I think of space as being so darned cold it wouldn't
> take anything long to lose heat and freeze up. I realize
> radioactivity takes a long time to decay but would it take a
> lot or so little to keep a large planetary body hot for so
> long? Thanks.
>
> Carl
>
>
>
> Eman wrote:
> > I think this theory has a potential fatal flaw if what
> we think we know about
> taenite/kamacite growth is valid. Without an insulating
> blanket the molten
> pool will not exist in a molten state long enough to permit
> crystallization aka
> Widmanstatten patterns.
>
> Be it remembered that Widmanstatten pattern/crystal growth
> is very very slow on
> the order of 10's of degrees cooling per million years. It
> is difficult to
> develop a scenario that integrates a large crater on an
> Goldilocks Asteroid
> which works.. ..
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really
> fast.
> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 23:15:35 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 20:15:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Cooling rates
In-Reply-To: <467424.57234.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <902776.23566.qm@web33201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Interesting idea, as railroad drawheads and metal presses after repeated pounding over many years also show stress patterns which resemble Widmanstatten. So could it be repeated pounding from collisions in addition to slow cooling which contribute to the variety of patterns? I really have no Idea but believe it possible.

http://www.materialsengineer.com/

the second pic on the right  looks like some widmanstattens'

have a great day

Steve



--- On Sat, 9/5/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Cooling rates
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Saturday, September 5, 2009, 7:30 PM
> Hi all - 
> 
> Could the Widmanstatten patterns simply be the result of
> incredibly high compression instead?
> 
> E.P.
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From pshugar at clearwire.net  Sat Sep  5 23:48:29 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 22:48:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
References: <360005.92513.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<0C802D459CFB49579EFFEC708A6D4467@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <CF98473AF2C5459EAACADE18F090694E@laptop>

I'm not sure 100%, but the liquid state of the iron core with its 
corresponding movement is what's responsible for the shifting magnetic north 
and south poles of the earth.
Were it to cool to a stable mass (read non molten) I believe
the Earth's magnetic poles would no longer shift.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
My area of expertise is in Electronics, not geophysical sciences.
Pete

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Kuyken" <info at meteorites.com.au>
To: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space


This is one of the best threads I've seen on the list for quite a while.
Interesting stuff!

So have the Martian Rovers found specific evidence from any changes that may
have taken place on Mars when it cooled? And what happens when the Earth
cools? Will this affect things like the Earth's electromagnetic field?

Cheers,

Jeff




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space


The "so darn cold" thing refers to objects not being lit/heated by their
star. Day sides will heat up until they radiate more heat than they absorb.
Night sides will cool as quickly as physics (and any atmosphere) allows.
If one face of Mars stayed pointing at the sun all the time, it would be
quite warm on a permanently daylit side. It attains 20degC at the equator
during the day as it is.

Given that the only method of heat transfer is conduction, requiring direct
contact of atoms, until you get to the surface where they can radiate heat
away, it seems more reasonable that a moderately sized body may keep a hot
core warm for a very long period of time. Particularly if you have the core
covered with a crust made of poorly adjoined fragements of rock, acting as a
blanket possibly hundreds of km deep.

The physics of the planetary cooling has long been worked out. For me, the
amazing thing is just how the mass of the planet changes the cooling time.
Mars is believed to have stayed hot enough to keep it's volcanoes going
until 1Ga ago. Now it's interior is too cold.
Smaller bodies generally stopped being active much earlier. Venus they're
not sure about.

Rob Mc
Rob McC


--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net> wrote:

> From: Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
> To: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>, 
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 12:34 AM
> May I please inject just the one
> comment?
> In space, the side facing the star (in our case, the sun)
> can get quite hot, ie close to the sun --hotter, and further
> away---less hot.
> Conversly--the side away from the star can approach very
> high negative degrees, ie 250 to 400 below zero.
> This is the "so darn cold" you were thinking about.
> Pete
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:18 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in
> space
>
>
>
>
> Hi Elton and All,
>
> I've read about the very slow cooling rate of the molten
> iron in various books but I don't understand why this is so.
> Why would it take millions of years for just a few drops of
> degrees? It's hard for me to envision this even accounting
> for bombardments and radioactive decay. Radioactivity from
> the original super nova event, right? Maybe it's
> because I think of space as being so darned cold it wouldn't
> take anything long to lose heat and freeze up. I realize
> radioactivity takes a long time to decay but would it take a
> lot or so little to keep a large planetary body hot for so
> long? Thanks.
>
> Carl
>
>
>
> Eman wrote:
> > I think this theory has a potential fatal flaw if what
> we think we know about
> taenite/kamacite growth is valid. Without an insulating
> blanket the molten
> pool will not exist in a molten state long enough to permit
> crystallization aka
> Widmanstatten patterns.
>
> Be it remembered that Widmanstatten pattern/crystal growth
> is very very slow on
> the order of 10's of degrees cooling per million years. It
> is difficult to
> develop a scenario that integrates a large crater on an
> Goldilocks Asteroid
> which works.. ..
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really
> fast.
> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From cynapse at charter.net  Sun Sep  6 01:01:50 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 00:01:50 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
In-Reply-To: <E724405E555A486FB729DF6469EBB6D9@ATARIENGINE2>
References: <COL108-W62C7E9E821F360745132DA9BED0@phx.gbl>
	<E724405E555A486FB729DF6469EBB6D9@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <lke6a514vh5bo5mtgrvb8o0vsi20v4mjdh@4ax.com>

Something I don't think anyone has touched on in this thread yet is that the
heating and cooling of objects in space doesn't work the same way we, as highly
modified fish living on the floor of an ocean of air, take for granted.  Heat is
transferred in three ways-- conduction, convection, and radiation.  Conduction
is what happens when two objects are in physical contact.  Convection is when
heat is circulated by a fluid, such as air or water.  Radiation is when heat is
transferred by infrared light.  

We experience all three all the time.  But for an object in space-including a
planet like Earth-- the only way to cool down is by radiation.  Objects in space
aren't touching other objects and they aren't immersed in a fluid (vacuum is the
best possible insulator) so an asteroid or a planet is going to cool much more
slowly than what we would intuitively expect from our own experiences.  The
Earth is still almost all liquidish except for a thin skim of rock on the very
outer rind-- and will probably be consumed by the dying sun LONG before there
will be time enough to cool to the core.

When on a spacewalk, an astronaut's risk isn't getting too cold (even in the
shadow of the Earth.)  It is getting too hot-- the heat generated by their own
bodies can't radiate away fast enough.

Touched on by others was that the bigger an object is, the slower it cools, but
I don't think anyone explained it.  An object can only cool through it's
surface.  But with a sphere (or any given fixed shape) when size increases,
volume increases faster than surface area-the bigger an object is, the less
proportionate surface area it has from which to loose heat.  (This applies to
organisms, too-google "gigantothermy.")


From cynapse at charter.net  Sun Sep  6 01:07:24 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 00:07:24 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lunar question
In-Reply-To: <200909041810.n84IAIW20826@levee.wustl.edu>
References: <COL113-W34E20510F9274D79F33C58B1EE0@phx.gbl>
	<200909041810.n84IAIW20826@levee.wustl.edu>
Message-ID: <ljg6a55qm8qi863k55hbk4i4pu03ovha6m@4ax.com>

On Fri, 04 Sep 2009 13:10:29 -0500, you wrote:

>With regard to the breccias, here are some things to look for:
>
>Aspect ratios of clasts in lunar breccias are practically never 
>greater than 3 to 1.
>
>There is practically no preferred orientation of clasts in a lunar 
>(or asteroidal) breccia.  Preferred orientation requires gravity (or 
>flow, which might happen in an impact-melt breccia, but is rare).
>
>Clasts are mostly angular, with only a bit of rounding on some.  All 
>rounding is caused by impact abrasion, which isn't nearly as 
>efficient as rocks being tumbled by moving water.
>
>Clasts don't have rims and cores of any kind, except maybe from 
>terrestrial weathering processes.
>
>If a clast is layered, it's not from the Moon.  Layered rocks require 
>gravity and air or water.
>
>Lunar breccias are remarkably uncolorful - just shades of 
>gray.  Nearly all the lunar meteorites from Oman are stained by 
>hematite, however, causing reddish regions.  The NWA stones 
>(interior) are less colorful.
>
>Clast in lunar breccias never have geometric shapes like prisms, 
>rectangles, etc.
>
>Most brecciated lunar meteorites are regolith breccias.  These often 
>have white clasts of anorthosite in a dark matrix of lithified 
>soil.  Impact melt and granulitic breccias are rarer and are 
>remarkably unremarkable (sawn surface).

Randy, far be it from me to put words in your fingers, but I recall in an
earlier (a year or two ago) post from you on lunar regolith breccias, you
mentioned that in a lunar breccia, the clasts are more or less randomly sized,
while in most terrestrial breccias, the clasts are mostly of similar sizes
because of wind, water, or gravity sorting them.  (Correct me if I'm wrong with
this addition to your list.)


From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Sat Sep  5 23:59:53 2009
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 21:59:53 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
References: <360005.92513.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com><0C802D459CFB49579EFFEC708A6D4467@JeffPC>
	<CF98473AF2C5459EAACADE18F090694E@laptop>
Message-ID: <315FC9A5099249B7B4E3710B1D1331C6@bellatrix>

The dynamics of planetary magnetic fields are not well understood, but the 
most widely accepted theories rely on some sort of dynamo effect, which 
requires a liquid iron core. This isn't just a factor in the reversal of the 
magnetic field, but in the existence of a significant field at all. Other 
planets that no longer have liquid cores (Mars and Mercury) have very weak 
magnetic fields as well. Evidence suggests that Mars once has a much 
stronger field, on the order of 10% the strength of Earth's. Venus is a big 
unknown: it has a very small magnetic field, but there is almost nothing to 
indicate the state of its core.

It seems likely that when the Earth's interior cools sufficiently that we 
loose the liquid iron core, we will also lose most of our magnetic field 
(and therefore the protection it affords us). Not that there are likely to 
be any humans around by then!

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pete Shugar" <pshugar at clearwire.net>
To: "Jeff Kuyken" <info at meteorites.com.au>; "Rob McCafferty" 
<rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space


I'm not sure 100%, but the liquid state of the iron core with its
corresponding movement is what's responsible for the shifting magnetic north
and south poles of the earth.
Were it to cool to a stable mass (read non molten) I believe
the Earth's magnetic poles would no longer shift.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
My area of expertise is in Electronics, not geophysical sciences.
Pete

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeff Kuyken" <info at meteorites.com.au>
To: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>;
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space


This is one of the best threads I've seen on the list for quite a while.
Interesting stuff!

So have the Martian Rovers found specific evidence from any changes that may
have taken place on Mars when it cooled? And what happens when the Earth
cools? Will this affect things like the Earth's electromagnetic field?

Cheers,

Jeff



From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Sun Sep  6 00:03:36 2009
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 22:03:36 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
References: <COL108-W62C7E9E821F360745132DA9BED0@phx.gbl><E724405E555A486FB729DF6469EBB6D9@ATARIENGINE2>
	<lke6a514vh5bo5mtgrvb8o0vsi20v4mjdh@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <BB647A6BFAB0497B85111787C729C43D@bellatrix>

Nevertheless, the Earth would have long ago cooled to a solid interior were 
it not for the continued production of interior heat from radioactive decay. 
There is more to it than simply the radiative loss of the heat of formation. 
This is also a factor in the cooling rate of smaller bodies that are 
responsible for iron meteorites. That is, even small bodies cooled slower 
than might otherwise be expected, because of active internal heating from 
radioactive decay (something that I think was touched upon earlier).

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darren Garrison" <cynapse at charter.net>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:01 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space


> Something I don't think anyone has touched on in this thread yet is that 
> the
> heating and cooling of objects in space doesn't work the same way we, as 
> highly
> modified fish living on the floor of an ocean of air, take for granted. 
> Heat is
> transferred in three ways-- conduction, convection, and radiation. 
> Conduction
> is what happens when two objects are in physical contact.  Convection is 
> when
> heat is circulated by a fluid, such as air or water.  Radiation is when 
> heat is
> transferred by infrared light.
>
> We experience all three all the time.  But for an object in 
> space-including a
> planet like Earth-- the only way to cool down is by radiation.  Objects in 
> space
> aren't touching other objects and they aren't immersed in a fluid (vacuum 
> is the
> best possible insulator) so an asteroid or a planet is going to cool much 
> more
> slowly than what we would intuitively expect from our own experiences. 
> The
> Earth is still almost all liquidish except for a thin skim of rock on the 
> very
> outer rind-- and will probably be consumed by the dying sun LONG before 
> there
> will be time enough to cool to the core.
>
> When on a spacewalk, an astronaut's risk isn't getting too cold (even in 
> the
> shadow of the Earth.)  It is getting too hot-- the heat generated by their 
> own
> bodies can't radiate away fast enough.
>
> Touched on by others was that the bigger an object is, the slower it 
> cools, but
> I don't think anyone explained it.  An object can only cool through it's
> surface.  But with a sphere (or any given fixed shape) when size 
> increases,
> volume increases faster than surface area-the bigger an object is, the 
> less
> proportionate surface area it has from which to loose heat.  (This applies 
> to
> organisms, too-google "gigantothermy.")



From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Sun Sep  6 00:21:37 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 23:21:37 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
References: <360005.92513.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A25007A23C8845AC8BC6F256AD8D7FAF@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi,

> Venus they're not sure about.

One thing I think we can be sure about is that
no one will ever use the phrase "so darn cold"
about Venus, as we stand next to a small creek
running with liquid lead and other low melting
point metals...

There are signs that may be recent activity on
Venus in some areas, but interpreting them
is in dispute. Generally, the surface of Venus
appears to have formed all at one time, crater
dated at 480 +/- 80 million years ago. The lack
of long-term change is attributed to the fact
that Venus's crust is, compared to the Earth's,
extremely thick and rigid, with no detectible
tectonic movement, recent mountain building,
or any of the other features of a "terrestrial"
planet. But, given the similarity in size, density
(and hence composition) to the Earth, few doubt
that Venus' core is as hot and active as our own.
It's just that nothing  (much) can punch its way
through that heavy crust.


Sterling K. Webb
----------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space


The "so darn cold" thing refers to objects not being lit/heated by their 
star. Day sides will heat up until they radiate more heat than they 
absorb. Night sides will cool as quickly as physics (and any atmosphere) 
allows.
If one face of Mars stayed pointing at the sun all the time, it would be 
quite warm on a permanently daylit side. It attains 20degC at the 
equator during the day as it is.

Given that the only method of heat transfer is conduction, requiring 
direct contact of atoms, until you get to the surface where they can 
radiate heat away, it seems more reasonable that a moderately sized body 
may keep a hot core warm for a very long period of time. Particularly if 
you have the core covered with a crust made of poorly adjoined 
fragements of rock, acting as a blanket possibly hundreds of km deep.

The physics of the planetary cooling has long been worked out. For me, 
the amazing thing is just how the mass of the planet changes the cooling 
time.
Mars is believed to have stayed hot enough to keep it's volcanoes going 
until 1Ga ago. Now it's interior is too cold.
Smaller bodies generally stopped being active much earlier. Venus 
they're not sure about.

Rob Mc
Rob McC


--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net> wrote:

> From: Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
> To: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>, 
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 12:34 AM
> May I please inject just the one
> comment?
> In space, the side facing the star (in our case, the sun)
> can get quite hot, ie close to the sun --hotter, and further
> away---less hot.
> Conversly--the side away from the star can approach very
> high negative degrees, ie 250 to 400 below zero.
> This is the "so darn cold" you were thinking about.
> Pete
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl 's" 
> <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:18 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in
> space
>
>
>
>
> Hi Elton and All,
>
> I've read about the very slow cooling rate of the molten
> iron in various books but I don't understand why this is so.
> Why would it take millions of years for just a few drops of
> degrees? It's hard for me to envision this even accounting
> for bombardments and radioactive decay. Radioactivity from
> the original super nova event, right? Maybe it's
> because I think of space as being so darned cold it wouldn't
> take anything long to lose heat and freeze up. I realize
> radioactivity takes a long time to decay but would it take a
> lot or so little to keep a large planetary body hot for so
> long? Thanks.
>
> Carl
>
>
>
> Eman wrote:
> > I think this theory has a potential fatal flaw if what
> we think we know about
> taenite/kamacite growth is valid. Without an insulating
> blanket the molten
> pool will not exist in a molten state long enough to permit
> crystallization aka
> Widmanstatten patterns.
>
> Be it remembered that Widmanstatten pattern/crystal growth
> is very very slow on
> the order of 10's of degrees cooling per million years. It
> is difficult to
> develop a scenario that integrates a large crater on an
> Goldilocks Asteroid
> which works.. ..
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really
> fast.
> http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



______________________________________________
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Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Sun Sep  6 00:33:53 2009
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 22:33:53 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
References: <360005.92513.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
	<A25007A23C8845AC8BC6F256AD8D7FAF@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <AC6931CBEA284FF1B21694F4C02E9386@bellatrix>

Hi Sterling-

>From what I've read, there is actually a fair bit of doubt that Venus has a 
molten interior. The only reason to think it does is because of its 
similarity to Earth (in terms of size and density). But there's a lack of 
good understanding about formation details (such as isotope types and 
amounts), so quite a few planetary geologists (silly term, isn't it?) 
consider it very possible that the core of Venus froze a long time ago.

In any case, more information is needed. And the fact that Venus has a weak 
magnetic field doesn't mean it necessarily has a solid core (although that 
remains an important piece of evidence in favor of that scenario); core 
dynamos aren't well enough understood to know if a molten core always 
produces a magnetic field.

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space


Hi,

> Venus they're not sure about.

One thing I think we can be sure about is that
no one will ever use the phrase "so darn cold"
about Venus, as we stand next to a small creek
running with liquid lead and other low melting
point metals...

There are signs that may be recent activity on
Venus in some areas, but interpreting them
is in dispute. Generally, the surface of Venus
appears to have formed all at one time, crater
dated at 480 +/- 80 million years ago. The lack
of long-term change is attributed to the fact
that Venus's crust is, compared to the Earth's,
extremely thick and rigid, with no detectible
tectonic movement, recent mountain building,
or any of the other features of a "terrestrial"
planet. But, given the similarity in size, density
(and hence composition) to the Earth, few doubt
that Venus' core is as hot and active as our own.
It's just that nothing  (much) can punch its way
through that heavy crust.



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 01:27:44 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 22:27:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Interesting way to describe a meteorite for sale
Message-ID: <210983.92329.qm@web33908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

If it is a meteorite...

http://tinyurl.com/lvfpkn


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


      


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Sun Sep  6 02:03:04 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 02:03:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Interesting way to describe a meteorite for
 sale
Message-ID: <31042964.1252216984162.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Thanks for posting this item. I love to mess with these guys. It's worth getting burnt every once in a while. I've just sent him a query.
Count Deiro

-----Original Message-----
>From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Sep 6, 2009 1:27 AM
>To: meteorite list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Interesting way to describe a meteorite for sale
>
>If it is a meteorite...
>
>http://tinyurl.com/lvfpkn
>
>
>--
>Richard Kowalski
>http://fullmoonphotography.net
>IMCA #1081
>
>
>      
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Sun Sep  6 02:27:52 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 01:27:52 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
References: <360005.92513.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com><A25007A23C8845AC8BC6F256AD8D7FAF@ATARIENGINE2>
	<AC6931CBEA284FF1B21694F4C02E9386@bellatrix>
Message-ID: <A6811322EACD4D8D8A1127B012B40CA2@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Chris, List,

    Well, Venus is shrouded in doubts on hundreds
of details. Yes, the core could be "frozen," but it would
require Venus to be of radically different composition
than the Earth. If the Earth rotated once every 224.7
days, as Venus does, instead of once every 24 hours,
I doubt we'd detect much of a planetary magnetic
field from space probes around the Earth either.

    The Russian probes (at least Venera 13 and 14) had
geophysical instrumentation that was able to determine
the bulk composition of those bare black basaltic-looking
rocks the probes sat down on, every though they had only
13-16 minutes to do so before the electronics fried. And
that basalt-looking stuff seems to be... basalt. The bulk
composition figures returned could be any of thousands
of basaltic regimes on Earth -- no unusual features of
any kind whatsoever. Boringly similar to Earth.


Sterling K. Webb
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Peterson" <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space


> Hi Sterling-
>
>>From what I've read, there is actually a fair bit of doubt that Venus 
>>has a
> molten interior. The only reason to think it does is because of its 
> similarity to Earth (in terms of size and density). But there's a lack 
> of good understanding about formation details (such as isotope types 
> and amounts), so quite a few planetary geologists (silly term, isn't 
> it?) consider it very possible that the core of Venus froze a long 
> time ago.
>
> In any case, more information is needed. And the fact that Venus has a 
> weak magnetic field doesn't mean it necessarily has a solid core 
> (although that remains an important piece of evidence in favor of that 
> scenario); core dynamos aren't well enough understood to know if a 
> molten core always produces a magnetic field.
>
> Chris
>
> *****************************************
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>; 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 10:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
>
>
> Hi,
>
>> Venus they're not sure about.
>
> One thing I think we can be sure about is that
> no one will ever use the phrase "so darn cold"
> about Venus, as we stand next to a small creek
> running with liquid lead and other low melting
> point metals...
>
> There are signs that may be recent activity on
> Venus in some areas, but interpreting them
> is in dispute. Generally, the surface of Venus
> appears to have formed all at one time, crater
> dated at 480 +/- 80 million years ago. The lack
> of long-term change is attributed to the fact
> that Venus's crust is, compared to the Earth's,
> extremely thick and rigid, with no detectible
> tectonic movement, recent mountain building,
> or any of the other features of a "terrestrial"
> planet. But, given the similarity in size, density
> (and hence composition) to the Earth, few doubt
> that Venus' core is as hot and active as our own.
> It's just that nothing  (much) can punch its way
> through that heavy crust.
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de  Sun Sep  6 09:49:44 2009
From: Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de (Carsten Giessler)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 15:49:44 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] - AD - Ebay Auctions Ending Soon!
Message-ID: <4AA3BDF8.1070500@t-online.de>

Hola List,

i have some auctions at ebay ending soon,
i would be glad if you take a look here:

http://shop.ebay.com/gipometeorites/m.html?LH_Auction=1&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3911.c0.m301

Many thanks for viewing,

best wishes

Carsten

-- 


Carsten Giessler

Gipometeorites - www.gi-po.de -
email: c-giessler at gi-po.de

Member of the Meteoritical Society
International Society for Meteoritics and Planetary Science

IMCA Member:3457
International Meteorite Collectors Association



From tett at rogers.com  Sun Sep  6 10:33:08 2009
From: tett at rogers.com (tett)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 10:33:08 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : Buzzard Coulee Special Oriented
In-Reply-To: <4AA3BDF8.1070500@t-online.de>
References: <4AA3BDF8.1070500@t-online.de>
Message-ID: <4AA3C824.9020002@rogers.com>

List,

As some of you know, I am selling just a couple of special pieces to 
help finance my motorcycle trip to the Arctic Circle.  Unfortunately 
this means getting a new bike I need to sell just a couple of meteorites.

My D'Orbigny went really fast and now I hope to entice someone to 
purchase a very special Buzzard Coulee stone.  Please check Roman's or 
Rob's sites and you will see that this stuff goes fast.

If you purchase this stone please be prepared to wait about 8 months or 
so.  These stones are covered by Canadian export laws and must have an 
export permit before they can be shipped out of Canada.  Unfortunately 
this takes time.

Up for sale is my 48.8 grm individual with over 99% fusion crust.  This 
stone is one of the rare ones collected within a week of the fall so it 
did not lie around in the snow for many months.  AS well, it has a 
partial roll over lip and gorgeous detail.  I was lucky to be able to 
sort through about 100 stones and this is the best that I found.  Now 
that I have been able to visit the fall site and find my own stones I 
can now sell this one to a lucky individual.  Price is USD 15/gm.

Here is a pic:  
http://picasaweb.google.com/MikeTettenborn/Meteorites#5294311663363284338

Cheers and Thanks!

tett




From fujmon at mac.com  Sun Sep  6 11:47:25 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 05:47:25 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] test
Message-ID: <C6E926EA-FF54-4637-B306-5D01B4B6EC74@mac.com>

push ...

Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From dave at fallingrocks.com  Sun Sep  6 11:39:34 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 11:39:34 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sonny Clary
Message-ID: <DE56D72FE1554C5584D31863D487094D@meteorroom>

Please contact me off list

Dave Gheesling
IMCA #5967
www.fallingrocks.com 



From fujmon at mac.com  Sun Sep  6 12:01:20 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 06:01:20 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Labor Day weekend sale
Message-ID: <4FB43B8C-317B-4935-B2D1-EBBCA1E48DAC@mac.com>

Hope you're enjoying this long Labor Day weekend (I apologize if this  
becomes a double post-my first announcement has not emerged).  I have  
an ebay auction ending Sunday (6:43 pm PDT).  Up on the block are:

NWA 869 - cherry and oriented individuals
Sah 02500 - 31.88g individual
Bjurbole - 0.12g micro
SaU 001 - 60g individual
Henbury - 4.78g sculpted individual
Nadiabondi - 2.9g crusted individual from a rare fall
Holbrook - Perfect 1.1g full slice
Sulagiri - Crusted 1.09g partslice
Olivine Bomb - Split and polished half stones of green olivine

... and much more.  These are all top quality pieces that would make a  
great addition to your collection, with many starting at 99?

http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

ALSO: Preview of next week's auctions on ebay are more cherry and  
oriented NWA 869, Wadi Melene 154g, NWA pallasite 2.11g, Pultusk full  
crusted slice 5.54g, Sulagiri slice 0.53g, Allende ind 3.13g,  
Tatahouine frag 1.04g, and YAOB: Yet Another Olivine Bomb  ;^)

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE:  Latest shipment from the hot deserts of Africa:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2034186&id=1394318075&l=a9c3592ce4

Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 12:21:24 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 09:21:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay listings ending Today - Free Tatahouine
	with purchase
Message-ID: <587025.33135.qm@web46401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi to everyone, hope all is good.

I have several items listed on ebay and some nice meteorites that end today.
Some outstanding Camel Donga samples and a lot more!

Visit my ebay listings here:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1

Free Tatahouine fragment with all purchases - Offer good until Monday.

Greg C.
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com


      


From fujmon at mac.com  Sun Sep  6 11:30:28 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 05:30:28 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Labor Day weekend sale
Message-ID: <FEE66BDD-C207-487E-87CF-13196EFFC183@mac.com>

Hope you're enjoying this long Labor Day weekend.  I have an ebay  
auction ending Sunday (6:43 pm PDT).  Up on the block are:

NWA 869 - cherry and oriented individuals
Sah 02500 - 31.88g individual
Bjurbole - 0.12g micro
SaU 001 - 60g individual
Henbury - 4.78g sculpted individual
Nadiabondi - 2.9g crusted individual from a rare fall
Holbrook - Perfect 1.1g full slice
Sulagiri - Crusted 1.09g partslice
Olivine Bomb - Split and polished half stones of green olivine

... and much more.  These are all top quality pieces that would make a  
great addition to your collection, with many starting at 99?

http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

ALSO: Preview of next week's auctions on ebay are more cherry and  
oriented NWA 869, Wadi Melene 154g, NWA pallasite 2.11g, Pultusk full  
crusted slice 5.54g, Sulagiri slice 0.53g, Allende ind 3.13g,  
Tatahouine frag 1.04g, and YAOB: Yet Another Olivine Bomb  ;^)

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE:  Latest shipment from the hot deserts of Africa:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2034186&id=1394318075&l=a9c3592ce4

Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From vs.petrovich at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 13:08:12 2009
From: vs.petrovich at gmail.com (Sergey Vasiliev)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 19:08:12 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Ebay auctions
Message-ID: <JPELLBIMOJEBPCPOJGEBEEPFCIAA.vs.petrovich@gmail.com>

Hello List!

I have some nice ebay auctions ending in 24 hours:

1. Small crusted Vetluga (AEUC-M):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190332109694

2. Small olive from Krasnojarsk (PAL-MG):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190332114652

3. Dar al Gani 400 (ALUN-A) - 0.15 g:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190332116489

4. Kainsaz (CO3.2) - 1.205 g:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190332116513

5. Yurtuk (AHOW) - 0.109g:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190332116531

Don't forget to visit my ebay store:
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/svassiliev__W0QQ_armrsZ1

And my website:
http://sv-meteorites.com

Thank you for your time!
Sergey

-------------------------------
Sergey Vasiliev
U Dalnice 839
Prague 5, 155 00
Czech Republic
-------------------
http://www.sv-meteorites.com
http://impactites.net
http://systematic-mineralogy.com
http://kazakhstan-minerals.com 


From dmerchan at rochester.rr.com  Sun Sep  6 13:21:01 2009
From: dmerchan at rochester.rr.com (Don Merchant)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:21:01 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Auctions ending tonight on EBAY
Message-ID: <00806584C5E146E7B14E0704A58986AF@don>

Hi List. I have several auctions ending tonight starting at 6 pm PST (9 pm 
EST) of some very nice and not so easy to find MNH (mint never hinged) 
meteorite stamps. I am almost completely out of my inventory of these stamps 
and once their gone their gone, as I do not plan on tracking down more in 
the future due to the time involved in searching, especially the Hoba 
Meteorite Stamp. So if your interested... here is the link below.

http://shop.ebay.com/emflocater/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

Thank you to those in the past who have purchased these from me and thank 
you to all that have tolerated my ad reminders.
Sincerely
Don Merchant
IMCA #0960 



From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 13:47:44 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 10:47:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Cooling rates
In-Reply-To: <902776.23566.qm@web33201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <635219.3956.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Steve, all - 

I don't think they're due to repeated collisions. 

Suppose that we have molten iron/nickle under incredible compression, which is then almost instantaneously released. 

250 parent bodies seems like a lot. Perhaps instead there was more differentiation within fewer parent bodies.

Ed

--- On Sat, 9/5/09, Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Cooling rates
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Date: Saturday, September 5, 2009, 10:15 PM
> Interesting idea, as railroad
> drawheads and metal presses after repeated pounding over
> many years also show stress patterns which resemble
> Widmanstatten. So could it be repeated pounding from
> collisions in addition to slow cooling which contribute to
> the variety of patterns? I really have no Idea but believe
> it possible.
> 
> http://www.materialsengineer.com/
> 
> the second pic on the right  looks like some
> widmanstattens'
> 
> have a great day
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> --- On Sat, 9/5/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Cooling rates
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Saturday, September 5, 2009, 7:30 PM
> > Hi all - 
> > 
> > Could the Widmanstatten patterns simply be the result
> of
> > incredibly high compression instead?
> > 
> > E.P.
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 


      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 15:12:25 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:12:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Limits of Carbonaceous Chondrite observability
	from Earth
Message-ID: <364847.68022.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello everyone - 

I have a problem to work and I'd like your input. 

I think that the current analysis is that a 30-60 (more likely 60 in my guess) comet fragment hit at Tunguska in 1908.

We know the luminence (reflectivity) of carbonaceous chondrites. 
Carbonaceous chondrites are usually thought to be cometary in origin. 

Assuming no multiple passes (in other words following a long or short period comet orbit), what are the limits on Earth based observability of dead (not outgasssing) comet fragments? 

Size, range, and travel time to Earth estimates, please. 

Does anyone here know the observational limits of the proposed NEO-VIS orbiting telescope?

Finally, a few years back the CAPS (Comet and Asteroid Protection System) proposed using an active Moon based LIDAR for dead comet fragment detection. 

Does anyone know what happened to that study?

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas







      


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 15:04:47 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:04:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scale recommendations?
Message-ID: <16603.25542.qm@web33907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Several months ago I bought a basic ~$20 digital pocket scale (100 g capacity, 0.01g precision) and it worked fine for a while.

Recently it started to give am error message on start up and then a constantly changing weight, even with nothing on the scale. Trying to tare or calibrate does not help.

I wrote the manufacturer about the problem and never got a response. I guess they can't be bothered with customer service on their low end products.

I'd be interested in hearing suggestions on scales that have the same precision (0.01g) or better (0.001g) with a minimum of 100g capacity. I'd like to keep it well under $100 but haven't seen many scales that meet these requirements.

Contact me off list

Thanks


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


      


From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 15:17:42 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 12:17:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] What is and isn't a Widmanstatten Pattern was
	Cooling rates
In-Reply-To: <635219.3956.qm@web36906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <492917.339.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

We had a metallurgist on the list a few years back that insisted Widmanstatten patterns were found everywhere and posted some micrographs supporting his assertion.  As I recall he got very ill with us when we pointed out why, what he had photos of, weren't Widmanstatten patterns. It was focused on a physical "casual" similarity not "causal" chemistry.

Once again Widmanstatten patterns aren't stress fractures nor alloy specific patterns. I further assert that metal in meteorites is NOT an alloy in that the nickel is in a specific locus within a molecule. It is therefore not a mixture but a compound, chemically speaking.

Widmanstatten patterns are a cross-sectional view of crystal latices that result from the migration of nickel atoms over eons into two distinct unusual, zoned, crystalline arrangements. Bandwidth is actually plate thickness. The migration is chemically driven while the metal is molten and only occurs in a specific range of temperatures. This is a subtle but distinct difference. This migration may even be a molecule by molecule transfer of nickel atoms which takes millions of years to clear out a 3mm band. This is to say a nickel atom may move in one side of a molecule and forces the central nickel atom to the face and lacking stability is ejected out the other side--maybe not, as the actual displacement/sorting is still an enigma.  The nickel iron content may assemble from a single form as it accretes and represent a move to homogeneity interupted when the mass ran out of thermal energy.  It may all start out as taenite and part of it converts to
 kamacite or vice versa. Who really knows? 

I fully believe collisions would impede if not stop the process-- not speed it up.  It is easy and natural to try to infer a similar pattern might be from a similar process but the only similarity is in low contrast photographs when the scale is ignored.  

Elton

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Cooling rates
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 1:47 PM
> Hi Steve, all - 
> 
> I don't think they're due to repeated collisions. 
> 
> Suppose that we have molten iron/nickle under incredible
> compression, which is then almost instantaneously released.

> 250 parent bodies seems like a lot. Perhaps instead there
> was more differentiation within fewer parent bodies.
> 
> Ed


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 16:01:16 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:01:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Limits of Carbonaceous Chondrite observability
	from Earth
In-Reply-To: <364847.68022.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3628.16605.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Carbonaceous Chondrites usually run between 5% - 10% albedo

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1996.pdf

2008 TC3, an approximately 5 meter diameter object, was about 515,000 km (~320,000 miles) away at discovery. Its albedo was ~5% and it was at 19.0V magnitude when discovered. Easily visible with our Schmidt, and rather bright for the 1.5-meter (G96). Two days earlier it was ~1.8 million km (~1.2 million miles) out and was near the threshold of detectability for G96, 22.0V, using our nominal survey exposure of 30 seconds.

I checked my documentation from the 2006 DPS meeting but I don't have even the abstract for the NEO-VIS poster, so you might want to contact the authors, cited in the link I sent in an earlier email.

I can't answer your last question.
--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Sun, 9/6/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Limits of Carbonaceous Chondrite observability from Earth
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 12:12 PM
> Hello everyone - 
> 
> I have a problem to work and I'd like your input. 
> 
> I think that the current analysis is that a 30-60 (more
> likely 60 in my guess) comet fragment hit at Tunguska in
> 1908.
> 
> We know the luminence (reflectivity) of carbonaceous
> chondrites. 
> Carbonaceous chondrites are usually thought to be cometary
> in origin. 
> 
> Assuming no multiple passes (in other words following a
> long or short period comet orbit), what are the limits on
> Earth based observability of dead (not outgasssing) comet
> fragments? 
> 
> Size, range, and travel time to Earth estimates, please. 
> 
> Does anyone here know the observational limits of the
> proposed NEO-VIS orbiting telescope?
> 
> Finally, a few years back the CAPS (Comet and Asteroid
> Protection System) proposed using an active Moon based LIDAR
> for dead comet fragment detection. 
> 
> Does anyone know what happened to that study?
> 
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sun Sep  6 22:01:19 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 19:01:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - slices of a really nice NWA xxxx for sale.
Message-ID: <647110.15061.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi again to everyone, a second AD, sorry... wont happen much.

Recently I posted pics of a really nice NWA stone I cut up.
I need to raise some cash and have decided to offer up the ONLY slices of this I will offer, prior to testing being complete.

The complete stone weighed 165g prior to cutting. 
I only plan to offer 44 grams of this for sale. The rest will remain in my collection.
As of now, it is unclassified but testing is being done and will be submitted for official NWA number once all the data needed is in.
This stone is a really nice meteorite!

4 complete slices and 1 end cut along with a few part slices are available.

9.3 gram complete slice.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWAxxxx93g.jpg

8.0 gram complete slice
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWAxxxx80g.jpg

6.5 gram complete slice
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWAxxxx65g.jpg

6.4 gram complete slice
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWAxxxx64g.jpg

2.9 gram end cut
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/NWAxxxx28gec.jpg

part slice sample photo
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/uNWA165gpssample.jpg

I also have some part slices that are .5 grams up to 2 grams - pics on request.
This is some really nice material, make me a offer.


Greg C.





      


From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Sun Sep  6 23:00:00 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 23:00:00 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 7,
	2009
Message-ID: <ceb.63295046.37d5d130@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_7_2009.html 



From mikewren at gilanet.com  Sun Sep  6 23:30:06 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 20:30:06 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: A Bunch Of Sales Going On-PLUS Another GREAT
	Auction Run Started-Seriously Worth A LOOK!
Message-ID: <585D1FC2-8DA4-4484-9024-405A6CEBB48B@gilanet.com>

Hello,

Check This Auction Run Out:


http://shop.ebay.com:80/merchant/meteorite-collector_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ

OR the SALES HERE:

http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history


Thanks and Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham


From gmhupe at htn.net  Sun Sep  6 23:28:58 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2009 23:28:58 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
	September 7, 2009
References: <ceb.63295046.37d5d130@aol.com>
Message-ID: <AEA0E14436964E6CB7690D004EFD95D7@Gregor>

Hi Michael and List,

Very cool Pic-o-Day! Those rounded "droplets" in the vug are very 
interesting. Do those look like 'melted' matrix droplets forming while this 
meteorite went through super heating at some point and created the gaseous 
voids (vugs)?

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 11:00 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 
7,2009


> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_7_2009.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From info at meteorites.com.au  Mon Sep  7 04:26:47 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 18:26:47 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September
	7, 2009
In-Reply-To: <AEA0E14436964E6CB7690D004EFD95D7@Gregor>
References: <ceb.63295046.37d5d130@aol.com>
	<AEA0E14436964E6CB7690D004EFD95D7@Gregor>
Message-ID: <151DAE23C9B044BA9B600E8FE35A8447@JeffPC>

Well that is one very cool looking feature indeed! And that's a good 
question Greg. But the thing that gets me is that the Widmanst?tten pattern 
is basically complete. And what is that grayish material? It looks a little 
like troilite or cohenite. And then there are the small bright silver blobs 
inside that material. Schreibersite?

Cheers,

Jeff



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
To: <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September 
7, 2009


> Hi Michael and List,
>
> Very cool Pic-o-Day! Those rounded "droplets" in the vug are very 
> interesting. Do those look like 'melted' matrix droplets forming while 
> this meteorite went through super heating at some point and created the 
> gaseous voids (vugs)?
>
> Best regards,
> Greg
>
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 11:00 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 
> 7,2009
>
>
>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_7_2009.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Mon Sep  7 10:25:45 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 07 Sep 2009 14:25:45 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] ALBION: Rocks from Space Picture of the Day
	-September 7, 2009
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000006700003FE7@paulinet.de>

Hello Jeff, Greg, and List,

Here is what I can contribute from the two references cited. Enjoy!

Cheers,

Bernd


Jeff wonders:

Well that is one very cool looking feature indeed! And that's a good question
Greg. But the thing that gets me is that the Widmanst?tten pattern (1) is basically
complete. And what is that grayish material? It looks a little like troilite or
cohenite (2). And then there are the small bright silver blobs (3) inside that material.
Schreibersite?

(1) U.B. Marvin: Albion a IVA fine octahedrite, is unique in having vugs
scattered throughout the otherwise orderly Widmanst?tten structure...

(2) U.B. Marvin: The spheroidal masses consist mainly of irregular kamacite
grains 1-35 mm across, containing 2-3.5 wt% Ni...thin, branching films of troilite...

(3) U.B. Marvin: ... a few rounded segregations of Ni-rich tetrataenite with 55.6 wt% Ni


Greg would like to know:

Do those look like 'melted' matrix droplets forming while this meteorite went
through super heating at some point and created the gaseous voids (vugs)?


M.E. Petaev: The crystalline linings in the vugs of the Albion iron, described in our companion
paper, provide clear evidence of deposition from a fluid phase - most likely a vapor - that passed
through the mass of iron at a late stage in its history. 

References:

Marvin U.B. et al. (1996) Drusy vugs in the Albion iron meteorite:
Mineralogy and textures (abs. Meteoritics 31-4, 1996, A083).

Petaev M.E. et al. (1996) Drusy vugs in the Albion iron meteorite:
Early speculations on the origin (abs. Meteoritics 31-4, 1996, A107).



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 14:15:14 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:15:14 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Ice
Message-ID: <f0a794130909071115u4f2a9f12y947ee0d5df36e306@mail.gmail.com>

Happy Labor Day Everyone,

I've heard some people talk about how sometimes meteors can be big
balls of ice.

How common is this? Specifically what are the chances that the PA
fireball I'm looking for could have been an ice ball? That would
really suck.

Thanks,

Mike Hankey
http://www.mikesastrophotos.com


From GeoZay at aol.com  Mon Sep  7 15:41:03 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 15:41:03 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Ice
Message-ID: <d5c.48d7904f.37d6bbcf@aol.com>

>>Specifically what are the chances that  the PA
fireball I'm looking for could have been an ice ball?  <<

Probably fat, slim and no chance. :O)
GeoZay  



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 16:12:27 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 13:12:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Ice
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909071115u4f2a9f12y947ee0d5df36e306@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <945864.94635.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hey Mike,

I'm wondering if it is Louis Frank's "Mini-Comets" that you heard being discussed?

An idea first introduced over two decades ago, and discredited, Frank pushed the idea more strongly in the mid to late 90s due to new "evidence" and of course was rejected even more strongly.

His hypothesis says as many as 30,000 twenty - forty ton objects hit the earth each day.

No observational evidence supports the idea.

Read here:

http://impact.arc.nasa.gov/news_detail.cfm?ID=77

A quick back of the envelope calculation shows that 30 tons of liquid water would be 7500 gallons or 28,390 liters. As a liquid that volume can also be represented as 28.39 cubic meters. Of course water ice has a larger volume.

As I mentioned in a post yesterday, 2008 TC3 was about 5 meters in diameter before entry. Assuming a perfect sphere (impossible) that would be about 65.45 cubic meters, or 2.3 times larger by volume. If my maths are correct, the average diameter of these hypothetical "mini-comets would be 3.76-m spheres.

Since one would assume that ice will have a higher albedo than TC3's 5%, blocks of ice will be *much* brighter than TC3 and with 30,000 of them impacting every DAY, we should see these thousands of these things all over the sky, all night long, every night. We often see objects that are much smaller and darker than this passing by the earth, so it is essentially impossible for this hypothesis to be correct.

I won't discuss how hard it would be to maintain blocks of ice this small a size this close to the Sun without out-gassing.

Meteorites are made of rock & metal only.

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Mon, 9/7/09, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Ice
> To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 11:15 AM
> Happy Labor Day Everyone,
> 
> I've heard some people talk about how sometimes meteors can
> be big
> balls of ice.
> 
> How common is this? Specifically what are the chances that
> the PA
> fireball I'm looking for could have been an ice ball? That
> would
> really suck.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike Hankey
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From dmerchan at rochester.rr.com  Mon Sep  7 16:59:32 2009
From: dmerchan at rochester.rr.com (Don Merchant)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 16:59:32 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Auctions EBay Buy it Now Last Inventory
	Meteorite Stamps
Message-ID: <D9D0FF4DD8DB4FF38F6E639C006855CB@don>

Hi List. I have listed the last of my inventory of Rare Meteorite Stamps in 
MNH ---Mint Never Hinged. These are in BUY it NOW auction format so you 
don't have to compete or wait for the auction to end. I have listed these 
with very fair prices. You can check the EBay link below. Once there gone I 
will no longer be selling anymore meteorite stamps.

http://shop.ebay.com/emflocater/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

Thank you.
Sincerely
Don Merchant
IMCA #0960 



From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 17:16:38 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:16:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD- 14kgs mixed up uNWA stony meteorites
Message-ID: <97757.97582.qm@web45404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Azule List,
 I have Three lots making 14kgs uNWA stony meteorites available for sale, 
$1400 + Free Fedex shipping for List members.
Photos on request, Off list please at alhyane_abdelaziz at yahoo.com
More RARITIES available a very competitive price, just don't hesitate to ask.

The best from the HOT NWA
Aziz


Alhyane abdelaziz
NWA Meteorites Shop
83500 Morocco
+212661655060


      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 17:44:48 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:44:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Detectability
Message-ID: <696235.30812.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Richard - 

Thanks for the information, and congratulations on TC3. 

I make that 320,000 miles something like 2 hours if it had of been on a direct intercept orbit. I am assuming you had nearly perfect sky conditions as well at your observatory. 

I think this one is going to turn into photons in a bucket and sky conditions. 

The items of interest are cometessimals, the smallest around 30 meters with 5 kilton impact force by my current estimate, with 2 joined cometissimals around 60 meters and 15 megatons of impact force. (But I have been wrong before, and reserve the right to be wrong in the future.)

No one in NASA seems to know what happened to the CAPS analysis. It is probably sitting on a shelf somewhere with the Apollo 11 Moon walk slowscan tapes.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 17:50:22 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:50:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Cooling or...
Message-ID: <290275.57552.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Elton - 

What I am wondering is if the compression forces are so large that an alloy does not form, but rather compounds, which then freeze in place when the compression forces are nearly instantaneously released. 

250 seems like a lot of parent bodies. 

Ed
E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


      


From abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 17:55:55 2009
From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com (Abdelaziz Alhyane)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 14:55:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD- 14kgs mixed up uNWA stony meteorites
In-Reply-To: <97757.97582.qm@web45404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <707319.16200.qm@web45410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Azzule List,
I have Three lots making 14kgs uNWA stony meteorites available for sale,
$1400 + Free Fedex shipping for List members.
Photos on request, Off list please at alhyane_abdelaziz at yahoo.com
More RARITIES available a very competitive price, just don't hesitate to ask.
1st come, 1st served

The best from the HOT NWA
Aziz


Alhyane abdelaziz
NWA Meteorites Shop
83500 Morocco
+212661655060


      


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 18:03:05 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 15:03:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Detectability
In-Reply-To: <696235.30812.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <45358.16799.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Ed,

checking my observing report from 6 October, 2008, the night of discovery, the conditions were far from perfect and the seeing wasn't that great. I reported it as 2.3 arcseconds full width half max for the night.

The night before was cloudy and I didn't head up to the observatory. The night of impact the seeing was only slightly better, but highly variable and both of these nights were windy. Perfect nights have sub-arcsecond seeing and our fwhm (1 arcsec pixels) is <1.8

With the 1.5-m we can reach 19.0V with good SNR using a 5-second exposure AT Nautical Twilight.

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Mon, 9/7/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Detectability
> To: damoclid at yahoo.com
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:44 PM
> Hi Richard - 
> 
> Thanks for the information, and congratulations on TC3. 
> 
> I make that 320,000 miles something like 2 hours if it had
> of been on a direct intercept orbit. I am assuming you had
> nearly perfect sky conditions as well at your observatory. 
> 
> I think this one is going to turn into photons in a bucket
> and sky conditions. 
> 
> The items of interest are cometessimals, the smallest
> around 30 meters with 5 kilton impact force by my current
> estimate, with 2 joined cometissimals around 60 meters and
> 15 megatons of impact force. (But I have been wrong before,
> and reserve the right to be wrong in the future.)
> 
> No one in NASA seems to know what happened to the CAPS
> analysis. It is probably sitting on a shelf somewhere with
> the Apollo 11 Moon walk slowscan tapes.
> 
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 


      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 18:13:21 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 15:13:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Detectability
In-Reply-To: <45358.16799.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <226877.15145.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Richard - 

Thanks much again. Great work with TC3.

I am assuming that TC3 also had an orbit that created a detectable arc with your image analysis algorithm. Would a cometessimal directly inbound on a long period or short period orbit do so?

The problem is to take that 19.0V and turn it into a detection limit estimate for an inbound 30 meter carbonaceous chondrite, and further to turn that limit into an estimate of warning time. Sadly, those maths are well beyond me now.

Ed


--- On Mon, 9/7/09, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Detectability
> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 5:03 PM
> Ed,
> 
> checking my observing report from 6 October, 2008, the
> night of discovery, the conditions were far from perfect and
> the seeing wasn't that great. I reported it as 2.3
> arcseconds full width half max for the night.
> 
> The night before was cloudy and I didn't head up to the
> observatory. The night of impact the seeing was only
> slightly better, but highly variable and both of these
> nights were windy. Perfect nights have sub-arcsecond seeing
> and our fwhm (1 arcsec pixels) is <1.8
> 
> With the 1.5-m we can reach 19.0V with good SNR using a
> 5-second exposure AT Nautical Twilight.
> 
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 9/7/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Detectability
> > To: damoclid at yahoo.com
> > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:44 PM
> > Hi Richard - 
> > 
> > Thanks for the information, and congratulations on
> TC3. 
> > 
> > I make that 320,000 miles something like 2 hours if it
> had
> > of been on a direct intercept orbit. I am assuming you
> had
> > nearly perfect sky conditions as well at your
> observatory. 
> > 
> > I think this one is going to turn into photons in a
> bucket
> > and sky conditions. 
> > 
> > The items of interest are cometessimals, the smallest
> > around 30 meters with 5 kilton impact force by my
> current
> > estimate, with 2 joined cometissimals around 60 meters
> and
> > 15 megatons of impact force. (But I have been wrong
> before,
> > and reserve the right to be wrong in the future.)
> > 
> > No one in NASA seems to know what happened to the
> CAPS
> > analysis. It is probably sitting on a shelf somewhere
> with
> > the Apollo 11 Moon walk slowscan tapes.
> > 
> > E.P. Grondine
> > Man and Impact in the Americas
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 


      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 18:40:31 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 15:40:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien life - we are the proof
Message-ID: <59628.32752.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Eric - 

Several times during our evolution we were nearly wiped out by impacts.
It was very close, and unfortunately due to inaction in detection budgets it is still too close to call.

If other solar systems have accretion mechanics similar to ours, and there is no reason to assert otherwise, this factor must play a real role in Drake equation estimates. If other intelligent beings have bureaucrats as stupid as ours, and there is no reason to think anything else, then this must play a role in Drake equation estimates as well.

Based on our sample of one, we can forget about searching for extra terrestrial intelligence (SETI), and should instead be concentrating our efforts on the search for extra-terrestrial stupidity (SETS).

"I saw Elvis on a UFO, 
sitting there with Howard Hughes...
I saw Elvis on a UFO, 
wearing those blue suede shoes..."

Maybe what we need is more UFOs and fewer bolides, given all the NWA material on the market...

Good hunting, all
Ed
(Catching up with old mail)





      


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 18:50:28 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 15:50:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Detectability
In-Reply-To: <226877.15145.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <604207.77041.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

We're due to start the 2009-2010 observing season tomorrow and I'm back on a night schedule so am a little sleepy and ready for a nap, but doing a quick check on an object the size you're looking for, assuming an albedo of 5%. I come up with 2007 DN41 as a candidate. I don't know the actual albedo, but you can do a more detailed search when you have the opportunity.

Running the ephemerides back from discovery, (17.9V) we could have discovered it as much as three weeks earlier under perfect conditions when it was about 12 million kilometers (7.5 million miles) away.

Your questions might be better answered if you posted on MPML. There are many more experts on the subject there who have already studied the problem in detail and can answer with more authority.


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Mon, 9/7/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Detectability
> To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 3:13 PM
> Richard - 
> 
> Thanks much again. Great work with TC3.
> 
> I am assuming that TC3 also had an orbit that created a
> detectable arc with your image analysis algorithm. Would a
> cometessimal directly inbound on a long period or short
> period orbit do so?
> 
> The problem is to take that 19.0V and turn it into a
> detection limit estimate for an inbound 30 meter
> carbonaceous chondrite, and further to turn that limit into
> an estimate of warning time. Sadly, those maths are well
> beyond me now.
> 
> Ed
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: Detectability
> > To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 5:03 PM
> > Ed,
> > 
> > checking my observing report from 6 October, 2008,
> the
> > night of discovery, the conditions were far from
> perfect and
> > the seeing wasn't that great. I reported it as 2.3
> > arcseconds full width half max for the night.
> > 
> > The night before was cloudy and I didn't head up to
> the
> > observatory. The night of impact the seeing was only
> > slightly better, but highly variable and both of
> these
> > nights were windy. Perfect nights have sub-arcsecond
> seeing
> > and our fwhm (1 arcsec pixels) is <1.8
> > 
> > With the 1.5-m we can reach 19.0V with good SNR using
> a
> > 5-second exposure AT Nautical Twilight.
> > 
> > --
> > Richard Kowalski
> > http://fullmoonphotography.net
> > IMCA #1081
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Detectability
> > > To: damoclid at yahoo.com
> > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:44 PM
> > > Hi Richard - 
> > > 
> > > Thanks for the information, and congratulations
> on
> > TC3. 
> > > 
> > > I make that 320,000 miles something like 2 hours
> if it
> > had
> > > of been on a direct intercept orbit. I am
> assuming you
> > had
> > > nearly perfect sky conditions as well at your
> > observatory. 
> > > 
> > > I think this one is going to turn into photons in
> a
> > bucket
> > > and sky conditions. 
> > > 
> > > The items of interest are cometessimals, the
> smallest
> > > around 30 meters with 5 kilton impact force by
> my
> > current
> > > estimate, with 2 joined cometissimals around 60
> meters
> > and
> > > 15 megatons of impact force. (But I have been
> wrong
> > before,
> > > and reserve the right to be wrong in the
> future.)
> > > 
> > > No one in NASA seems to know what happened to
> the
> > CAPS
> > > analysis. It is probably sitting on a shelf
> somewhere
> > with
> > > the Apollo 11 Moon walk slowscan tapes.
> > > 
> > > E.P. Grondine
> > > Man and Impact in the Americas
> > > 
> > > 
> > >? ? ???
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> 


      


From meteorites at online.nl  Mon Sep  7 18:54:57 2009
From: meteorites at online.nl (Jan Bartels)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 00:54:57 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] Iron Mircro Mount collection for sale (38 in
	total !!)
Message-ID: <80A7676589A8484A88BD4749842C0436@laptop>

Listoids,

Before it goes to Ebay......

If you are looking for the coolest Micro Mount collection of rare iron 
meteorites, this is your chance to own it.

We are offering this beautiful display case with 38 Micros of common but 
also the rarest irons. There are fragments, etched slices, individuals (even 
one with a natural hole), you name it, it's all there!!



The display contains 40 plastic gem boxes a little over an inch in square 
(28 mm).

38 of them contain a micro of iron meteorite. The last two are for you to 
fill up.



These are are the meteorites:



             Landes (Silicated iron) - slice 2,2 grams.

            Campo Del Cielo - fragment 4 grams.

            Zagora (silicate iron) - end piece 6,9 grams.

            El Sampal - etched slice (beauty!!) 6,1 grams.

            Miles -  slice 7,1 grams.

            Cape York - graphite fragment 1,6 grams.

            Saint Aubain - etched slice 2,1 grams.

            Tucson Ring !! - slice 1,4 grams.

            Sikhote Alin with natural hole!! - individual 5.1 grams.

            Odessa - as found, individual 2,5 grams.

            Henbury - fragment 3,4 grams.

            Taza (NWA 859) - individual 2,4 grams.

            Canyon Diablo - individual 3,3 grams.

            Gibeon - etched slice 1,3 grams.

            Nantan (non ruster!) - fragment 0,7 grams.

            Muonionalusta - etched slice 8,2 grams.

            Lake Murray - shale fragment 2.1 grams.

            Kumerina - etched slice 0,2 grams.

            Milly Milly - etched slice 1,6 grams.

            Veevers - fragment as found 0,4 grams.

            Hoba - no shale, real Iron!! Slice 1.95 grams.

            Wolf Creek - shale slice 1,7 grams.

            Santa Catharina - slice 0.8 grams.

            Oberkirchen - fragment 0.42 grams.

            Sam's Valley - fragment 0.11 grams.

            Dumont - etched slice (beauty!) 6,4 grams.

            Fairfield - etched slice 10,04 grams.

            Soledade - etched slice 3,97 grams.

            Santiago Papasquiero - slice 5,47 grams.

            Guanaco - etched slice 2,52 grams.

            Deport - etched slice 7,8 grams.

            Tambo Quemado - etched slice 9,6 grams.

            Tres Castillos - etched slice 6,7 grams.

            Colby's Creek - etched slice 8,5 grams.

            Zacatecas (1969) Fantastic etched slice 16,8 grams.

            Verkhneyi Saltov - etched slice 8,6 grams.

            Sacramento Wash 005 - the most beautiful little oriented irons 
(flowlines!!)

            1,095 grams and 0,6 grams (with beautiful pit!!)

            Bear Creek - ethed slice 3,54 grams.



Pictures on request.

Some with original cards, some don't. Good provenance for all pieces.



(please respond off list please)

Make me an offer on the whole display case and please don't ask what I want 
for it. Just make an offer pls.



NO TRADES.

NO SEPERATE SALES !!



Payments by Paypal only.

Will be send by registered mail.



Best,

Jan

IMCA 9833









From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 19:25:33 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 16:25:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Detectability
In-Reply-To: <604207.77041.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <928976.16169.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks once again Richard - 

I hadn't thought of that, but then I don't think of many things now days.  I assumed that list concerned simply observational data, and was quite expensive to join. 

Looking up 2007 DN41, it does not appear to have been sufficiently dead, and was only detected once outbound after it had been through perihelion, a little late for comparative purposes.

Ed

--- On Mon, 9/7/09, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Detectability
> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 5:50 PM
> We're due to start the 2009-2010
> observing season tomorrow and I'm back on a night schedule
> so am a little sleepy and ready for a nap, but doing a quick
> check on an object the size you're looking for, assuming an
> albedo of 5%. I come up with 2007 DN41 as a candidate. I
> don't know the actual albedo, but you can do a more detailed
> search when you have the opportunity.
> 
> Running the ephemerides back from discovery, (17.9V) we
> could have discovered it as much as three weeks earlier
> under perfect conditions when it was about 12 million
> kilometers (7.5 million miles) away.
> 
> Your questions might be better answered if you posted on
> MPML. There are many more experts on the subject there who
> have already studied the problem in detail and can answer
> with more authority.
> 
> 
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 9/7/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: Detectability
> > To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 3:13 PM
> > Richard - 
> > 
> > Thanks much again. Great work with TC3.
> > 
> > I am assuming that TC3 also had an orbit that created
> a
> > detectable arc with your image analysis algorithm.
> Would a
> > cometessimal directly inbound on a long period or
> short
> > period orbit do so?
> > 
> > The problem is to take that 19.0V and turn it into a
> > detection limit estimate for an inbound 30 meter
> > carbonaceous chondrite, and further to turn that limit
> into
> > an estimate of warning time. Sadly, those maths are
> well
> > beyond me now.
> > 
> > Ed
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: Detectability
> > > To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 5:03 PM
> > > Ed,
> > > 
> > > checking my observing report from 6 October,
> 2008,
> > the
> > > night of discovery, the conditions were far from
> > perfect and
> > > the seeing wasn't that great. I reported it as
> 2.3
> > > arcseconds full width half max for the night.
> > > 
> > > The night before was cloudy and I didn't head up
> to
> > the
> > > observatory. The night of impact the seeing was
> only
> > > slightly better, but highly variable and both of
> > these
> > > nights were windy. Perfect nights have
> sub-arcsecond
> > seeing
> > > and our fwhm (1 arcsec pixels) is <1.8
> > > 
> > > With the 1.5-m we can reach 19.0V with good SNR
> using
> > a
> > > 5-second exposure AT Nautical Twilight.
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Richard Kowalski
> > > http://fullmoonphotography.net
> > > IMCA #1081
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- On Mon, 9/7/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: Detectability
> > > > To: damoclid at yahoo.com
> > > > Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 2:44 PM
> > > > Hi Richard - 
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks for the information, and
> congratulations
> > on
> > > TC3. 
> > > > 
> > > > I make that 320,000 miles something like 2
> hours
> > if it
> > > had
> > > > of been on a direct intercept orbit. I am
> > assuming you
> > > had
> > > > nearly perfect sky conditions as well at
> your
> > > observatory. 
> > > > 
> > > > I think this one is going to turn into
> photons in
> > a
> > > bucket
> > > > and sky conditions. 
> > > > 
> > > > The items of interest are cometessimals,
> the
> > smallest
> > > > around 30 meters with 5 kilton impact force
> by
> > my
> > > current
> > > > estimate, with 2 joined cometissimals around
> 60
> > meters
> > > and
> > > > 15 megatons of impact force. (But I have
> been
> > wrong
> > > before,
> > > > and reserve the right to be wrong in the
> > future.)
> > > > 
> > > > No one in NASA seems to know what happened
> to
> > the
> > > CAPS
> > > > analysis. It is probably sitting on a shelf
> > somewhere
> > > with
> > > > the Apollo 11 Moon walk slowscan tapes.
> > > > 
> > > > E.P. Grondine
> > > > Man and Impact in the Americas
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >       
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 


      


From gmhupe at htn.net  Mon Sep  7 19:41:50 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 19:41:50 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Thank You Scientists!"
References: <59628.32752.qm@web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <557FC7D5361F43FBBBA1E2939BB881A2@Gregor>

Hello Ed,

You stated, "Maybe what we need is more UFOs and fewer bolides, given all 
the NWA material on the market..."

All NWA material (and other material found elsewhere) are 'UFO's' until the 
scientists prove they are "meteorites" (or not).

This seems like a perfect time to acknowledge the hard work and efforts the 
scientific community has done for those of us who primarily work with NWA 
material. Without this handful of dedicated scientists, many Saharan finds 
would never be recognized as meteorites and brought to the many public and 
private collections throughout the world. Their work has added valuable 
information that may not have been discovered with these hot desert finds.

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
To: <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien life - we are the proof


> Hi Eric -
>
> Several times during our evolution we were nearly wiped out by impacts.
> It was very close, and unfortunately due to inaction in detection budgets 
> it is still too close to call.
>
> If other solar systems have accretion mechanics similar to ours, and there 
> is no reason to assert otherwise, this factor must play a real role in 
> Drake equation estimates. If other intelligent beings have bureaucrats as 
> stupid as ours, and there is no reason to think anything else, then this 
> must play a role in Drake equation estimates as well.
>
> Based on our sample of one, we can forget about searching for extra 
> terrestrial intelligence (SETI), and should instead be concentrating our 
> efforts on the search for extra-terrestrial stupidity (SETS).
>
> "I saw Elvis on a UFO,
> sitting there with Howard Hughes...
> I saw Elvis on a UFO,
> wearing those blue suede shoes..."
>
> Maybe what we need is more UFOs and fewer bolides, given all the NWA 
> material on the market...
>
> Good hunting, all
> Ed
> (Catching up with old mail)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From mojave_meteorites at cox.net  Mon Sep  7 19:55:14 2009
From: mojave_meteorites at cox.net (Rob Matson)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 16:55:14 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] NEO detectability
In-Reply-To: <928976.16169.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <GOEDJOCBMMEHLEFDHGMMMEKFDOAA.mojave_meteorites@cox.net>

Hi Ed,

> I hadn't thought of that [joining MPML], but then I don't think
> of many things now days.  I assumed that list concerned simply
> observational data, and was quite expensive to join.

Richard is the administrator for the Minor Planet Mailing List, and
(just like the Meteorite List) it is completely free to join. Anything
asteroid- (or comet-) related is completely acceptable on MPML, and
you would certainly find multiple people who could address your
questions related to warning time for low-albedo NEOs in various
orbits.

The hardest detection problem is a post-perihelion Apollo due to
the poor phase angle and low solar elongation. There is an unavoidable
"detection hole" in this direction which prevents earth-bound
telescopes from seeing small objects until they are hours from
impact. (It is even possible to design pathological cases where you
will never detect the object -- you'll just get blindsided. Fortunately
these cases represent a very tiny percentage of all possible impact
scenarios.)

--Rob



From meteoritefinder at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 19:48:02 2009
From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 16:48:02 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Web site updates AD/Sale
Message-ID: <468bf6050909071648r28e31461s48d3019f38662e92@mail.gmail.com>

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-- 
Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401
www.meteoritefinder.com
     928-753-6825


From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Mon Sep  7 19:58:59 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 19:58:59 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] What is and isn't a Widmanstatten Pattern was
 Cooling rates
In-Reply-To: <492917.339.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <492917.339.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AA59E43.5090109@usgs.gov>

I think there are some misconceptions here, although this is not my 
specialty.  Most of the metallic minerals in iron meteorites are 
described as "alloys" in that they are composed of various metals 
combined together.  These alloys have specific structures, e.g., the 
metal atoms in kamacite are arranged in a body-centered cubic structure 
and those in taenite are face-centered cubic.  The minerals Kamacite and 
taenite are solid solutions of mainly Fe and Ni which can have a range 
of compositions without altering the basic structure.  Tetrataenite is 
another alloy, but this time with a fixed composition (FeNi) and an 
ordered structure.

Formation of the Widmanstatten structure is pretty well understood.  It 
does not happen as the metal cools from the liquid state and 
solidifies.  That process leads to the formation of just taenite.  Only 
when the alloy cools to much lower temperature, after it is completely 
solid, can the Widmanstatten pattern form.   High pressures are not 
involved. Goldstein and coworkers have shown that the process is 
controlled by the Fe-Ni-P phase diagram.  Depending on the exact 
composition of the alloy, a variety of phase transformations take place 
over a range of temperatures, ultimately leading to the formation of 
kamacite and taenite. Composition and cooling rate play roles in 
determining in the structures we now observe.  You can read about it in: 
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/2005M%26PS...40..239Y

jeff

Mr EMan wrote:
> We had a metallurgist on the list a few years back that insisted Widmanstatten patterns were found everywhere and posted some micrographs supporting his assertion.  As I recall he got very ill with us when we pointed out why, what he had photos of, weren't Widmanstatten patterns. It was focused on a physical "casual" similarity not "causal" chemistry.
>
> Once again Widmanstatten patterns aren't stress fractures nor alloy specific patterns. I further assert that metal in meteorites is NOT an alloy in that the nickel is in a specific locus within a molecule. It is therefore not a mixture but a compound, chemically speaking.
>
> Widmanstatten patterns are a cross-sectional view of crystal latices that result from the migration of nickel atoms over eons into two distinct unusual, zoned, crystalline arrangements. Bandwidth is actually plate thickness. The migration is chemically driven while the metal is molten and only occurs in a specific range of temperatures. This is a subtle but distinct difference. This migration may even be a molecule by molecule transfer of nickel atoms which takes millions of years to clear out a 3mm band. This is to say a nickel atom may move in one side of a molecule and forces the central nickel atom to the face and lacking stability is ejected out the other side--maybe not, as the actual displacement/sorting is still an enigma.  The nickel iron content may assemble from a single form as it accretes and represent a move to homogeneity interupted when the mass ran out of thermal energy.  It may all start out as taenite and part of it converts to
>  kamacite or vice versa. Who really knows? 
>
> I fully believe collisions would impede if not stop the process-- not speed it up.  It is easy and natural to try to infer a similar pattern might be from a similar process but the only similarity is in low contrast photographs when the scale is ignored.  
>
> Elton
>
> --- On Sun, 9/6/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Cooling rates
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 1:47 PM
>> Hi Steve, all - 
>>
>> I don't think they're due to repeated collisions. 
>>
>> Suppose that we have molten iron/nickle under incredible
>> compression, which is then almost instantaneously released.
>>     
>
>   
>> 250 parent bodies seems like a lot. Perhaps instead there
>> was more differentiation within fewer parent bodies.
>>
>> Ed
>>     
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA





From tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com  Mon Sep  7 21:12:24 2009
From: tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com (Tom Randall (KB2SMS))
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 21:12:24 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] What is and isn't a Widmanstatten Pattern was
	Cooling rates
Message-ID: <FCD79F63-A0C2-44DF-A8C4-CB6532FD5394@hvc.rr.com>


Excellent article and info! Thank you Jeff!

Tom

---
"I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who  
do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put  
down.'"  -- Bob Newhart

http://home.roadrunner.com/~kb2sms/



From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 21:18:29 2009
From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 18:18:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Venus, Earth and Widmanstatten lines
In-Reply-To: <A25007A23C8845AC8BC6F256AD8D7FAF@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <578001.3783.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

It seems likely that Venus may well still be volcanic though this is by no means certain and it is unlikely that we will witness volcanic eruptions in the near future due to the clouds.

Current theory suggests that the hot crust due to the overly hot and thick atmosphere is much more plastic than Earth's and without plate tectonics (which really seem to need liquid water on the surface for some reason) the heat builds up until the whole crust seems to catastophically overturn. 
Whether this process will continue in the future is the main question. Venus is approx 80% mass of the earth. We simply do no know.

Earth will certainly cool over time.
The core is solid, not liquid, as I have seen posted. We know this from seismographs. The outer core is liquid and is believed (though we do not know how) to be responsible for the magnetic field. The hotter core is kept solid by the pressure of the overlying material.
Plate Tectonism is predicted to die away over the many aeons ahead. I think there is some prediction to the stop date. It's before the sun expires but not before humanity, methinks. I forget. 1-2Ga or so, I think, but please don't quote me on that.


Widmanstatten lines are uniquely cooling features. Pressure features are not the same. I assume people are thinking about the patterns shown in samuri swords. They are indeed very pretty but not formed the same way. The patterns are due to variations in nickel concentration. The boundaries have more nickel (Taenite in the boundaries vs Kamacite in the thicker parts) 

How thick the pattern is depends on the cooling rate. This is because even in a solid, atoms can diffuse. The do so quicker at higher temperature than lower and the boundaries form as the nicke moves out of the structure of the iron. The quicker this happens, the less opportunity it has to do this and so the widmanstatten pattern is thin.
Long slow diffusiuon rates produce thick widmanstatten patterns.

Remember, we are talking about atoms moving in a solid. This is a really slow process.

But widmanstatten is definitely a temperature and time driven effect rather than a pressure one. The physics and geochemistry is well understood.

Rob McC



--- On Sun, 9/6/09, Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
> To: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 5:21 AM
> Hi,
> 
> > Venus they're not sure about.
> 
> One thing I think we can be sure about is that
> no one will ever use the phrase "so darn cold"
> about Venus, as we stand next to a small creek
> running with liquid lead and other low melting
> point metals...
> 
> There are signs that may be recent activity on
> Venus in some areas, but interpreting them
> is in dispute. Generally, the surface of Venus
> appears to have formed all at one time, crater
> dated at 480 +/- 80 million years ago. The lack
> of long-term change is attributed to the fact
> that Venus's crust is, compared to the Earth's,
> extremely thick and rigid, with no detectible
> tectonic movement, recent mountain building,
> or any of the other features of a "terrestrial"
> planet. But, given the similarity in size, density
> (and hence composition) to the Earth, few doubt
> that Venus' core is as hot and active as our own.
> It's just that nothing? (much) can punch its way
> through that heavy crust.
> 
> 
> Sterling K. Webb
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 7:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in
> space
> 
> 
> The "so darn cold" thing refers to objects not being
> lit/heated by their star. Day sides will heat up until they
> radiate more heat than they absorb. Night sides will cool as
> quickly as physics (and any atmosphere) allows.
> If one face of Mars stayed pointing at the sun all the
> time, it would be quite warm on a permanently daylit side.
> It attains 20degC at the equator during the day as it is.
> 
> Given that the only method of heat transfer is conduction,
> requiring direct contact of atoms, until you get to the
> surface where they can radiate heat away, it seems more
> reasonable that a moderately sized body may keep a hot core
> warm for a very long period of time. Particularly if you
> have the core covered with a crust made of poorly adjoined
> fragements of rock, acting as a blanket possibly hundreds of
> km deep.
> 
> The physics of the planetary cooling has long been worked
> out. For me, the amazing thing is just how the mass of the
> planet changes the cooling time.
> Mars is believed to have stayed hot enough to keep it's
> volcanoes going until 1Ga ago. Now it's interior is too
> cold.
> Smaller bodies generally stopped being active much earlier.
> Venus they're not sure about.
> 
> Rob Mc
> Rob McC
> 
> 
> --- On Sun, 9/6/09, Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Pete Shugar <pshugar at clearwire.net>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of
> irons in space
> > To: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>,
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 12:34 AM
> > May I please inject just the one
> > comment?
> > In space, the side facing the star (in our case, the
> sun)
> > can get quite hot, ie close to the sun --hotter, and
> further
> > away---less hot.
> > Conversly--the side away from the star can approach
> very
> > high negative degrees, ie 250 to 400 below zero.
> > This is the "so darn cold" you were thinking about.
> > Pete
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:18 PM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons
> in
> > space
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Elton and All,
> > 
> > I've read about the very slow cooling rate of the
> molten
> > iron in various books but I don't understand why this
> is so.
> > Why would it take millions of years for just a few
> drops of
> > degrees? It's hard for me to envision this even
> accounting
> > for bombardments and radioactive decay. Radioactivity
> from
> > the original super nova event, right? Maybe it's
> > because I think of space as being so darned cold it
> wouldn't
> > take anything long to lose heat and freeze up. I
> realize
> > radioactivity takes a long time to decay but would it
> take a
> > lot or so little to keep a large planetary body hot
> for so
> > long? Thanks.
> > 
> > Carl
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Eman wrote:
> > > I think this theory has a potential fatal flaw if
> what
> > we think we know about
> > taenite/kamacite growth is valid. Without an
> insulating
> > blanket the molten
> > pool will not exist in a molten state long enough to
> permit
> > crystallization aka
> > Widmanstatten patterns.
> > 
> > Be it remembered that Widmanstatten pattern/crystal
> growth
> > is very very slow on
> > the order of 10's of degrees cooling per million
> years. It
> > is difficult to
> > develop a scenario that integrates a large crater on
> an
> > Goldilocks Asteroid
> > which works.. ..
> > 
> > 
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels
> really
> > fast.
> > http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 


      


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 21:30:55 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 18:30:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Detectability
In-Reply-To: <928976.16169.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <737805.90547.qm@web33905.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Apologies Ed. I should have noticed that the ephemerides for this object clearly showed it outbound. Chalk that up to my need for a nap...

Indeed it was unobservable just three days before discovery. Obviously not the best candidate for what you wanted, but actually a good example of the problems involved in detecting NEOs when they are close and inbound. It also partly points up why we want to detect them decades or centuries before impact, so we don't get blindsided...

As for MPML, Rob Matson is correct. MPML is free and on-topic for the list anything involving asteroids and comets, including the theoretical.

As with this list, the archives are open to all, but to post you need to be a member. I moderate new subscribers until they make an on-topic post or two, just to eliminate spam.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mpml/


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Mon, 9/7/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: Detectability
> To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 4:25 PM
> Thanks once again Richard - 
> 
> I hadn't thought of that, but then I don't think of many
> things now days.? I assumed that list concerned simply
> observational data, and was quite expensive to join. 
> 
> Looking up 2007 DN41, it does not appear to have been
> sufficiently dead, and was only detected once outbound after
> it had been through perihelion, a little late for
> comparative purposes.
> 
> Ed



      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 22:34:24 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 19:34:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Thank You Scientists!"
In-Reply-To: <557FC7D5361F43FBBBA1E2939BB881A2@Gregor>
Message-ID: <594128.45618.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi - 

Agree completely, Greg. The classification labs and all concerned deserve our thanks. Without NWA I wouldn't have my little chip of the Moon, with which I will be delighting some 2,000 young people next week.

I hope you and your brother are holding on to your planetary cutting dust - 

good hunting and best wishes - 

Ed

--- On Mon, 9/7/09, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:

> From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
> Subject: "Thank You Scientists!"
> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>, eric at meteoritesusa.com
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 6:41 PM
> Hello Ed,
> 
> You stated, "Maybe what we need is more UFOs and fewer
> bolides, given all the NWA material on the market..."
> 
> All NWA material (and other material found elsewhere) are
> 'UFO's' until the scientists prove they are "meteorites" (or
> not).
> 
> This seems like a perfect time to acknowledge the hard work
> and efforts the scientific community has done for those of
> us who primarily work with NWA material. Without this
> handful of dedicated scientists, many Saharan finds would
> never be recognized as meteorites and brought to the many
> public and private collections throughout the world. Their
> work has added valuable information that may not have been
> discovered with these hot desert finds.
> 
> Best regards,
> Greg
> 
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> To: <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 6:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien life - we are the
> proof
> 
> 
> > Hi Eric -
> > 
> > Several times during our evolution we were nearly
> wiped out by impacts.
> > It was very close, and unfortunately due to inaction
> in detection budgets it is still too close to call.
> > 
> > If other solar systems have accretion mechanics
> similar to ours, and there is no reason to assert otherwise,
> this factor must play a real role in Drake equation
> estimates. If other intelligent beings have bureaucrats as
> stupid as ours, and there is no reason to think anything
> else, then this must play a role in Drake equation estimates
> as well.
> > 
> > Based on our sample of one, we can forget about
> searching for extra terrestrial intelligence (SETI), and
> should instead be concentrating our efforts on the search
> for extra-terrestrial stupidity (SETS).
> > 
> > "I saw Elvis on a UFO,
> > sitting there with Howard Hughes...
> > I saw Elvis on a UFO,
> > wearing those blue suede shoes..."
> > 
> > Maybe what we need is more UFOs and fewer bolides,
> given all the NWA material on the market...
> > 
> > Good hunting, all
> > Ed
> > (Catching up with old mail)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> 


      


From cynapse at charter.net  Mon Sep  7 23:32:12 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 22:32:12 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Venus, Earth and Widmanstatten lines
In-Reply-To: <578001.3783.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <A25007A23C8845AC8BC6F256AD8D7FAF@ATARIENGINE2>
	<578001.3783.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <tpjba5dk8ealebnqi3ji4vodno3umv96ni@4ax.com>

On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 18:18:29 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Plate Tectonism is predicted to die away over the many 
>aeons ahead. I think there is some prediction to the stop 
>date. It's before the sun expires but not before humanity, 
>methinks. I forget. 1-2Ga or so, I think, but please don't 
>quote me on that.

There was a paper a few years back that I remember reading about in a secondary
source (Scientific American or similar) that said that the rate of water being
returned to the atmosphere/oceans by volcanic activity is less than the amount
being subducted by plate tectonics-- and that if the rate of both stays
substantially the same, the oceans will run dry within a time frame around that
that you just mentioned.  So plate tectonics may grind to a halt by then, but
the sandworms probably won't notice.


From Impactika at aol.com  Mon Sep  7 23:27:34 2009
From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 23:27:34 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - More Thin-Sections
Message-ID: <cea.60a253d8.37d72926@aol.com>

Hello,
 
I hope you all had a very nice Labor Day weekend.
Speaking of Labor, it has been a laborious one for me. And you can see the 
results on my site, another 40 or so new thin-sections, some type 3 
chondrites with lots of chondrules, a couple CK, a Lodranite and an 
Olivine-Diogenite with a odd texture, it looks sand-blasted! Appropriate for an NWA. 
 
Take a look:    _http://www.impactika.com/TSlist.htm_ 
(http://www.impactika.com/TSlist.htm) 
 
And there will be many, many more thin-sections in the near future. Even 
more than I ever expected to handle.
Just ask me if you would like some advanced notice.
 
Thanks.

Anne M. Black
http://www.impactika.com/
IMPACTIKA at aol.com
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
http://www.imca.cc/


From gmhupe at htn.net  Tue Sep  8 00:12:05 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 00:12:05 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Thank You Scientists!"
References: <594128.45618.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7B61825B821549E08300F6B3F465EF7D@Gregor>

Hi Ed,

You asked,
"I hope you and your brother are holding on to your planetary cutting 
dust -"

I have the cutting dust from every Lunar of Martian meteorite I have, I am 
still waiting to use it in a special project at some point. I also have the 
cutting dust from just about every achondrite I have ever cut.

I have ideas of how to use this material eventually, but am willing to 
consider other's ideas.

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
To: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: "Thank You Scientists!"


> Hi -
>
> Agree completely, Greg. The classification labs and all concerned deserve 
> our thanks. Without NWA I wouldn't have my little chip of the Moon, with 
> which I will be delighting some 2,000 young people next week.
>
> I hope you and your brother are holding on to your planetary cutting 
> dust -
>
> good hunting and best wishes -
>
> Ed
>
> --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
>> Subject: "Thank You Scientists!"
>> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>, eric at meteoritesusa.com
>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 6:41 PM
>> Hello Ed,
>>
>> You stated, "Maybe what we need is more UFOs and fewer
>> bolides, given all the NWA material on the market..."
>>
>> All NWA material (and other material found elsewhere) are
>> 'UFO's' until the scientists prove they are "meteorites" (or
>> not).
>>
>> This seems like a perfect time to acknowledge the hard work
>> and efforts the scientific community has done for those of
>> us who primarily work with NWA material. Without this
>> handful of dedicated scientists, many Saharan finds would
>> never be recognized as meteorites and brought to the many
>> public and private collections throughout the world. Their
>> work has added valuable information that may not have been
>> discovered with these hot desert finds.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Greg
>>
>> ====================
>> Greg Hupe
>> The Hupe Collection
>> NaturesVault (eBay)
>> gmhupe at htn.net
>> www.LunarRock.com
>> IMCA 3163
>> ====================
>> Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>> To: <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>> Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 6:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien life - we are the
>> proof
>>
>>
>> > Hi Eric -
>> >
>> > Several times during our evolution we were nearly
>> wiped out by impacts.
>> > It was very close, and unfortunately due to inaction
>> in detection budgets it is still too close to call.
>> >
>> > If other solar systems have accretion mechanics
>> similar to ours, and there is no reason to assert otherwise,
>> this factor must play a real role in Drake equation
>> estimates. If other intelligent beings have bureaucrats as
>> stupid as ours, and there is no reason to think anything
>> else, then this must play a role in Drake equation estimates
>> as well.
>> >
>> > Based on our sample of one, we can forget about
>> searching for extra terrestrial intelligence (SETI), and
>> should instead be concentrating our efforts on the search
>> for extra-terrestrial stupidity (SETS).
>> >
>> > "I saw Elvis on a UFO,
>> > sitting there with Howard Hughes...
>> > I saw Elvis on a UFO,
>> > wearing those blue suede shoes..."
>> >
>> > Maybe what we need is more UFOs and fewer bolides,
>> given all the NWA material on the market...
>> >
>> > Good hunting, all
>> > Ed
>> > (Catching up with old mail)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 




From pgspears at cox.net  Tue Sep  8 01:21:34 2009
From: pgspears at cox.net (Paul  G. Spears)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 22:21:34 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Poor quality uNWA (or equivalent) stones/irons
	needed
Message-ID: <2EB0BD0BE25D471E87079D4D3385C8F6@GrandpasNetbook>

Hi, Listees:
Bought my first saw, need some inexpensive stones to practice on.  Please 
contact me offline.
Regards,
Paul 



From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 03:18:10 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 00:18:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Gem quality periodot's from meteorites
Message-ID: <127663.25310.qm@web33207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Are there any sources for gem quality periodots fron pallasite meteorites?
 with cut and pollished stones up to 5 carats? it would require cutting thick slabs of pallasites rather than the thin slices currently available, then using  the larger clear pieces to be cut into ring quality gems.

cheers
Steve



      


From marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl  Tue Sep  8 03:34:24 2009
From: marco.langbroek at wanadoo.nl (Marco Langbroek)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 09:34:24 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Space ice
In-Reply-To: <mailman.65.1252365935.47272.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.65.1252365935.47272.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <4AA60900.2040505@wanadoo.nl>


> From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>

> Happy Labor Day Everyone,
> 
> I've heard some people talk about how sometimes meteors can be big
> balls of ice.
> 
> How common is this? Specifically what are the chances that the PA
> fireball I'm looking for could have been an ice ball? That would
> really suck.

> From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com> 
> Hey Mike,
> 
> I'm wondering if it is Louis Frank's "Mini-Comets" that you heard being discussed?

Rather, I think Mike refers to a common cometary origin meteor (not meteorite).

Most meteors are cometary in origin. So yes, many fireballs are made of volatile 
stuff. Don't expect any Leonid meteor, however how bright it is, to produce 
meteorites for example. They are too volatile, and too fast for that, and 
disintegrate completely.
Taurid meteors, another cometary shower renowned for producing autumn fireballs, 
are slower, but still, chances of meteorites of them are slim as it concerns 
volatile particles (comet Encke debris).

Fast velocity, high orbit inclinations, are all indications of a cometary 
origin. Slow velocity and a radiant on the ecliptic point to a probable 
asteroidal origin (there are exceptions though!), and then chances are it could 
be a meteorite dropper.

Then, there are the stories of lore about chunks of ice reaching earth surface. 
Usually these are either hailstones, or ice from airplane wings. But there are a 
few stories that are more intruiging. Peter Jeniskens once got a lady telling 
him how during a beachwalk a small black thing dropped out of the sky and 
disintegrated in the beach sand in front of her eyes, with a sizzling sound.

- Marco

-----
Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek
Dutch Meteor Society (DMS)

e-mail: dms at marcolangbroek.nl
http://www.dmsweb.org
http://www.marcolangbroek.nl
-----






From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 05:19:49 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 02:19:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Ice
In-Reply-To: <945864.94635.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <520172.11218.qm@web33202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

why didnt you just say water boils away to a gas in a vaccume? and it would take an extremely large object to have the gravity necessary to hold water as ice ? even one molcular weight of water or 18 grams would ocupy a volume of 22.4 liters or 2.24 meters. or is it .224 meters? Anyway it would not be a solid ice ball. think 22.4 one liter bottles Avagodros number of molecules. One pound of ice or about 454 grams  would be a slush ball over ten meters across.
   
KE=1/2mv^2
m - mass in slugs
v= velocity in feet per second
32.174 pounds = 1 slug

1 pound of ice hitting the atmosphere would have the following energy at 17 k miles per hour.
  1/2   [1/32.174(17kmph*5280feet per mile*60 minutes per hour*60 minutes per second)^2]

please excuse my dear aunte Sally 

1/2 [.o3108 slugs(17kmph x 5280 f/mile x 3600 seconds/hour)^2]
1/2[.03108 slugs(89,760k feet per hour x 3600 seconds/hour)^2]
1/2[.03108 slugs(323,136,000 feet per second)^2]
1/2[.03108 slugs(1.04416x 10^17)]
1/2[3.245x10^15]
= 1.6x10^15 foot lbs of energy.

 or plenty enough energy  to make a Tunguska like event with no crater.

solid ice chunks hitting the ground, or other objects either fell off an airplane  or were ice balls suspended in the atmosphere like hail. if a tornado can pick up an 80k lb 18 wheeler I see no reason  why a 100lb chunk of ice could not be held in the air by updrafts in the upper atmosphere.
   have a great day
Steve

--- On Mon, 9/7/09, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Space Ice
> To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>, "Mike Hankey" <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
> Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 3:12 PM
> Hey Mike,
> 
> I'm wondering if it is Louis Frank's "Mini-Comets" that you
> heard being discussed?
> 
> An idea first introduced over two decades ago, and
> discredited, Frank pushed the idea more strongly in the mid
> to late 90s due to new "evidence" and of course was rejected
> even more strongly.
> 
> His hypothesis says as many as 30,000 twenty - forty ton
> objects hit the earth each day.
> 
> No observational evidence supports the idea.
> 
> Read here:
> 
> http://impact.arc.nasa.gov/news_detail.cfm?ID=77
> 
> A quick back of the envelope calculation shows that 30 tons
> of liquid water would be 7500 gallons or 28,390 liters. As a
> liquid that volume can also be represented as 28.39 cubic
> meters. Of course water ice has a larger volume.
> 
> As I mentioned in a post yesterday, 2008 TC3 was about 5
> meters in diameter before entry. Assuming a perfect sphere
> (impossible) that would be about 65.45 cubic meters, or 2.3
> times larger by volume. If my maths are correct, the average
> diameter of these hypothetical "mini-comets would be 3.76-m
> spheres.
> 
> Since one would assume that ice will have a higher albedo
> than TC3's 5%, blocks of ice will be *much* brighter than
> TC3 and with 30,000 of them impacting every DAY, we should
> see these thousands of these things all over the sky, all
> night long, every night. We often see objects that are much
> smaller and darker than this passing by the earth, so it is
> essentially impossible for this hypothesis to be correct.
> 
> I won't discuss how hard it would be to maintain blocks of
> ice this small a size this close to the Sun without
> out-gassing.
> 
> Meteorites are made of rock & metal only.
> 
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Space Ice
> > To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 11:15 AM
> > Happy Labor Day Everyone,
> > 
> > I've heard some people talk about how sometimes
> meteors can
> > be big
> > balls of ice.
> > 
> > How common is this? Specifically what are the chances
> that
> > the PA
> > fireball I'm looking for could have been an ice ball?
> That
> > would
> > really suck.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Mike Hankey
> > http://www.mikesastrophotos.com
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 05:59:49 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 02:59:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Cooling or...
In-Reply-To: <290275.57552.qm@web36908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <275085.7038.qm@web33204.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

or the impacts stopped the crystal growth  of the irons, causing muionalusta, gibeon and campos  having the same or similar age yet different band widths  depending on when an impactor stopped  the crystal growth of the widmanstattens.
cheers
Steve

--- On Mon, 9/7/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Cooling or...
> To: mstreman53 at yahoo.com
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 4:50 PM
> Hi Elton - 
> 
> What I am wondering is if the compression forces are so
> large that an alloy does not form, but rather compounds,
> which then freeze in place when the compression forces are
> nearly instantaneously released. 
> 
> 250 seems like a lot of parent bodies. 
> 
> Ed
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From cmb62 at columbus.rr.com  Tue Sep  8 08:44:36 2009
From: cmb62 at columbus.rr.com (Charley)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 08:44:36 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] List Member wins Photography Contest
Message-ID: <E1EF7AD3AF3741E29090B91F821493B4@HAL1>

 Hi all,

Our own Darren Garrison has won a photography contest on Panda's Thumb.

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2009/09/photo-contest-w.html#more

To see the finalists, go here:

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2009/08/photo-contest-v-1.html#more

Congrats Darren!  Nice job!

Best regards,

Charley

"Well, squids don't work. Hey! Let's
  try elephants !"

                    Hannibal 




From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Tue Sep  8 11:08:20 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:08:20 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 8,
	2009
Message-ID: <d32.5f38afa4.37d7cd64@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_8_2009.html  



From GeoZay at aol.com  Tue Sep  8 11:05:31 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:05:31 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] List Member wins Photography Contest
Message-ID: <c5f.5c984b2c.37d7ccbb@aol.com>

>>Our own Darren Garrison has won a  photography contest on Panda's Thumb.<<

Nice Photo...I didn't  realize that hummingbirds were that aggressive to 
other critters besides other  hummingbirds. Interesting...
GeoZay  



From cdtucson at cox.net  Tue Sep  8 01:21:04 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2009 22:21:04 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chrome Question
Message-ID: <20090908012104.86U29.94626.imail@fed1rmwml38>

List, 
I have a question about chrome.
What is the highest percentage of chrome found in iron meteorites? Thanks Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
IMCA 5829
Meteoritemax



From nightsky55 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 12:31:25 2009
From: nightsky55 at gmail.com (Bob King)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 11:31:25 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day/ El
	Haggounia aubrite?
Message-ID: <99c1e91a0909080931g169cfecbgd81e77c6d1499f4d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mike and all,
That was a fun picture today but one question -- I thought the El
Haggounia "aubrite" was classified as an EL3. Is there still debate on
this material?
Thanks,
Bob

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:08 AM, <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com> wrote:
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_8_2009.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 12:45:04 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 09:45:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Auctions Ending-Thousands $$ Started At Just 99
	Cents!
Message-ID: <360866.53459.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,
 
Several excellent auctions are due to end this afternoon.  Thousands of 
dollars worth of material was loaded and started at just 99 cents.  Be sure to 
take a look as I cannot afford to give away meteorites much longer as most of 
these have been selling below my costs lately. 
 
All of these items are definitely worth a look as there is treasure 
everywhere!

All Auctions Can Be Found At This link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ

Planetary 
Material Started At Just 99 Cents:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200379629696
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200379630322
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140343427101
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200379632987
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200379633392
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140343428262
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200379634551
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200379634783
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200379635926
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140344662474
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200381665930
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140344665674
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200381669546
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140344666000
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200381670185
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140344667090
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200381671963
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Cents:
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200381666132


PRICE REDUCED: NWA 2626 Martian Shergottite, MAIN MASS - DO NOT BE 
AFRAID TO MAKE AN OFFER AS I WILL SELL BELOW MY COSTS:
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S.O.S. - SAVE OFF THE SAW - OTHER RARE MAIN MASSES THAT WILL BE PLACED ON THE SAW AND CUT DOWN IF 
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200374037865
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200374038314
 

And many more fine examples worth looking at can be found at this 
link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ


Thank 
you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck.


Best 
Regards,

------------------------------------
Adam Hupe
The Hupe 
Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
raremeteorites at yahoo.com 


From roxfromspace at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 12:55:49 2009
From: roxfromspace at gmail.com (Phil Morgan)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:55:49 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day/ El
	Haggounia aubrite?
In-Reply-To: <99c1e91a0909080931g169cfecbgd81e77c6d1499f4d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <99c1e91a0909080931g169cfecbgd81e77c6d1499f4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <70baf8d20909080955k5d206abei90b28f3336007da4@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Bob and list,
I'm not sure if there is any active debate but I believe there are
still issues.  A good summary of the problems with this material and
pairings is documented here:

http://www4.nau.edu/meteorite/Meteorite/Al_Haggounia.html

Regards,
Phil

On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Bob King<nightsky55 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Mike and all,
> That was a fun picture today but one question -- I thought the El
> Haggounia "aubrite" was classified as an EL3. Is there still debate on
> this material?
> Thanks,
> Bob
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:08 AM, <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com> wrote:
>> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_8_2009.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 13:10:13 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:10:13 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
	September 8, 2009
In-Reply-To: <d32.5f38afa4.37d7cd64@aol.com>
References: <d32.5f38afa4.37d7cd64@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550909081010p247d093alce226bfca845c0fe@mail.gmail.com>

Nice photo, but Al-Hagg is an EL3 enstatite chondrite, not an aubrite. :)


On 9/8/09, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com> wrote:
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_8_2009.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 13:09:53 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:09:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] oriented stone or iron
Message-ID: <983267.75617.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi list.I am looking for a stone or iron meteorite,prefferably unclassified that is oriented and with heavy flow lines.I am looking to spend around $700.Please off list.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


      


From tinbider at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Sep  8 13:26:31 2009
From: tinbider at yahoo.co.uk (Aubrey Whymark)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 17:26:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Stretch Philippinite Tektites!
Message-ID: <734927.87687.qm@web28504.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi List

Check out my images of two stretch tektites found in the Philippine:
http://www.tektites.co.uk/stretch.html (half way down)

There is an interesting story:
Des Leong of www.tektiteinc.com showed me the 66.1g specimen and asked if I thought it was a stretch tektite. I said 'no' as Philippinites re-entered as solid bodies (unlike Indochinites). It was a curio though with a stretched bubble area sandwiched between two circular bubble areas. 

Then today I was cataloging some tektites I bought in January 2009. In that lot I found a very similar specimen weighing 32.2g. It had a stretched bubble area sandwiched between two circular bubble areas (same as before). In this case, however, there was very clear twisting of the molten area. 

Not necessarily the classic stretch tektite, but nonetheless I've come round to the fact that stretched tektites can be found very very rarely in the Philippines - perhaps one per 100 or 150 kilos. I think these must have formed in the ejection phase though, as I'm certain that Philippinites re-entered as solid bodies (why? well even one kilo tektites show no distortion - In Indochina spheres sagged into donuts/tori. In the Philippines they stayed as spheres even in the biggest tektites that would have remained molten the longest).

Anyway, enjoy the images, I wanted to share them! 

Aubrey
www.tektites.co.uk


      


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Sep  8 13:29:58 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 10:29:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA to Announce Selection of Target Crater for
	Lunar Impact of LCROSS Spacecraft
Message-ID: <200909081729.n88HTwV6029651@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



Sept. 8, 2009

Grey Hautaluoma/Ashley Edwards 
Headquarters, Washington 
202-358-0668/1756 
grey.hautaluoma-1 at nasa.gov, ashley.edwards-1 at nasa.gov 

Jonas Dino 
Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif. 
650-604-5612 
jonas.dino at nasa.gov 

MEDIA ADVISORY: M09-171

NASA SELECTS TARGET CRATER FOR LUNAR IMPACT OF LCROSS SPACECRAFT

MOFFETT FIELD, Calif. -- NASA has identified the spot where it will 
search for water on the moon. Reporters are invited to attend the 
announcement of the target location where the Lunar Crater 
Observation and Sensing Satellite, or LCROSS, and its spent Centaur 
rocket will hit in October. The briefing will take place at 10 a.m. 
PDT, Friday, Sept. 11, in the main auditorium, Building N201, of 
NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif. The event will 
be broadcast live on NASA Television and the agency's Web site. 

The selected crater is an optimal target for evaluating if water ice 
exists at the lunar south pole. Briefing participants are Daniel 
Andrews, LCROSS project manager, Anthony Colaprete, LCROSS principal 
investigator, and Jennifer Heldmann, lead for the LCROSS observation 
campaign. 

Andrews will provide an update about the health of the spacecraft and 
mission activities. Colaprete will announce the target crater and 
explain the criteria and selection process. Heldmann will discuss the 
LCROSS observation campaign in which an international cadre of 
professional and amateur astronomers will view the impacts at 4:30 
a.m. on Oct. 9. 

To reach Ames, take U.S. Highway 101 to the Moffett Field/NASA Parkway 
exit and drive east on Moffett Field Boulevard toward the main gate. 
News media will be escorted from the visitor badge office parking lot 
to the main auditorium at 9:45 a.m. Journalists seeking telephone 
access should contact Jonas Dino at 650-604-5612 or 
jonas.dino at nasa.gov. 

For NASA TV streaming video, downlink and scheduling information, 
visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/ntv 

For more information about the LCROSS mission, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/lcross 

	
-end-



From korotev at wustl.edu  Tue Sep  8 16:39:31 2009
From: korotev at wustl.edu (Randy Korotev)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:39:31 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lunar question
In-Reply-To: <ljg6a55qm8qi863k55hbk4i4pu03ovha6m@4ax.com>
References: <COL113-W34E20510F9274D79F33C58B1EE0@phx.gbl>
	<200909041810.n84IAIW20826@levee.wustl.edu>
	<ljg6a55qm8qi863k55hbk4i4pu03ovha6m@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <200909082039.n88KdGW27036@levee.wustl.edu>


>
>Randy, far be it from me to put words in your fingers, but I recall in an
>earlier (a year or two ago) post from you on lunar regolith breccias, you
>mentioned that in a lunar breccia, the clasts are more or less randomly sized,
>while in most terrestrial breccias, the clasts are mostly of similar sizes
>because of wind, water, or gravity sorting them.  (Correct me if I'm 
>wrong with
>this addition to your list.)

Darren:

Yes, I should have mentioned that.  Most terrestrial sedimentary 
rocks are what sedimentologists call "sorted."  All grains in a 
certain size range are deposited at the same distance from the 
shoreline.  But, with no wind and water and little gravity, the 
fragmental material on the surface of an asteroid or the Moon is not 
sorted.  There's a continuum from small to big.  I think of a lunar 
regolith of fragmental breccia as being fractal - it doesn't make any 
difference what scale you're look at.  It always looks the same.

Unfortunately, terrestrial volcaniclastic rocks are also not well sorted.

Randy Korotev 




From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 16:45:24 2009
From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:45:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] cooling rate of irons. drifting to Planetary
	atmospheres
In-Reply-To: <ekiba5d6a2013g6p3f2qe8fb180ghmgi8s@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <428559.72203.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Predictions have been made of such doomsday scenarios. There's a good one in the book Gaia by Lovelock that begins with some genetic engineering experiment going wrong and it ends up stopping photosynthesis.
The predictions are that eventually the Earth would end up with an atmosphere very similar in proportions to Venus and Mars, both of which are around 97% CO2 with much of the remainder nitrogen and argon.
I forget the surface pressure predicted, I think it was in the region of 90Bar but whether it was more or less I can't remember.
Eventually, the Carbon sealed in rocks would be liberated without photosynthesis to fix it and free oxygen is inherently unstable long term without photosynthesis to replace it.

The irony is that Venus would have started warmer than the Earth and may have been more conducive to the beginnings of life than the earth.
Please, don't anyone suggest panspermia from Venus to Earth. That whole topic seems madness to me.
As the sun warmed up, the increased global temperatures would have driven surface water higher into the atmosphere as the troposphere became saturated where it eventually contributes to global warming rather than cooling by increasing the surface pressure. (This is an oversimplification for brevities sake. I can elucidate to anyone sufficently interested, preferably off list. Not everyone is as anal about these things as I am)
The action of UV light will dissociate H2O at high altitude and the hydrogen will escape to space leaving free oxygen to react with sulphur compounds put into the atmosphere by volcanic eruptions. Sulphucic acid at high altitude is a very potent greenhouse gas (I am told though I will admit I didn't look that up at uni and haven't done since, either) The whole thing runs away.

Whether Venus began a progression to an Earth-like world and then ran away with the greenhouse or whether it has always been like it is is not known.

Still, it provides a stark warning for us on the lil ol earth.
Mars, by contrast has insufficient mass to hold onto a thick atmosphere for more than a few hundred Ma, even at lower initial temperatures. So in 4.56Ga, venus ends up with a 90Bar atmosphere of similar composition to Mars' 0.01Bar atmosphere.
Earth sits nicely in between with its highly modified atmosphere thanks to the actions of plants.

Venus' slow rotation (retrograde, even depending on you frame of reference) seems likely caused by a large impact early in its life, though the loss of a sufficiently large moon would correspond to a big enough loss of spin angular momentum too. The moon would need to be about the mass of Mercury. Whether Mercury was once a moon of Venus or not seems of low probability but if this were the case, the question of where Venus' moon went would need answering.

Considering a large moon seems a vital part in stabilising the spin of a terrestrial planet allowing for complex life to develop (the mixing produced by tides allows for a regular distribution of energy and resources in the shallow water where sunlight can reach near coastlines), I kinda like the Mercury was a moon of Venus idea. It makes complex life far more likely elsewhere. It would mean 2 of 3 terrestrial planets had large moons (mercury no longer being a planet) rather than 1 of 4.

Rob McC




--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net> wrote:

> From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Slow cooling rate of irons in space
> To: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
> Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 4:22 AM
> On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 18:37:23 -0700
> (PDT), you wrote:
> 
> >Oi!
> >I touched on this. Am I an ivisible voice? Just joking
> with you.
> 
> Oh, you?? I have you killfiled.
> 
> Actually, I saw your points after I went back and gave the
> thread a more through
> reading after the first skimming.
> 
> >Given a rotation of 24(ish) hrs, I wonder what the
> preictions for Venus would be should life such as it is on
> earth be prevelant.
> 
> If the atmosphere was the same thickness, I'd think it
> would still be Pretty
> Damn Hot.? I'm no planetologist, but I can't off the
> top of my head think of how
> the slow period of rotation would be able to lead to what
> would otherwise be a
> thin atmosphere.? Of course, we don't know how long
> Venus has had an atmosphere
> like it is currently.? Maybe, if life had taken hold,
> it would have been able to
> evolve some feedback loop keeping the atmosphere from
> getting too thick
> (precipitating out carbon dioxide as calcium carbonate, and
> such.)
> 


      


From cynapse at charter.net  Tue Sep  8 17:55:37 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:55:37 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lunar question
In-Reply-To: <200909082039.n88KdGW27036@levee.wustl.edu>
References: <COL113-W34E20510F9274D79F33C58B1EE0@phx.gbl>
	<200909041810.n84IAIW20826@levee.wustl.edu>
	<ljg6a55qm8qi863k55hbk4i4pu03ovha6m@4ax.com>
	<200909082039.n88KdGW27036@levee.wustl.edu>
Message-ID: <ckkda55gektop51395kkuihidqg9p9raq5@4ax.com>

On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:39:31 -0500, you wrote:

>
>sorted.  There's a continuum from small to big.  I think of a lunar 
>regolith of fragmental breccia as being fractal - it doesn't make any 
>difference what scale you're look at.  It always looks the same.

Speaking of fractal details and the moon, I ran across this the other day:

http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00002061/

(The last image.)


From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 18:38:34 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 15:38:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] What is and isn't a Widmanstatten Pattern was
	Cooling rates
In-Reply-To: <4AA59E43.5090109@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <961119.32082.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

--- On Mon, 9/7/09, Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov> wrote:
 <<Most of the metallic minerals in iron meteorites are described as
"alloys" in that they are composed of various metals combined together.>>?

I understood the distinction was that the Fe Ni formed a "chemical compound" not merely a mixture like copper and tin to make brass but even brass can form crystalline plates so that may be a bad example. It was my understanding that were it not for the mineral structure The Fe-Ni would be called an alloy.  Agreed that it is frequently discussed in terms of alloy.

 <<It does not happen as the metal cools from the liquid state and solidifies.>>

I stand corrected, 30 years is a lot of facts to keep in just one's head. I did recall correctly that there is a temperature range and below which all translocation stops. Seems off the top of my head it is 800?C.

<<Goldstein and coworkers have shown that the process is controlled by the Fe-Ni-P phase diagram>>.?

I have long suspected that phosphorus was a key component in the process--likely as a catalyst.  The Schreibersite seems to exist largely at the boundaries in thin laminae even surrounding trolite nodules.  I look forward to reading Goldstein's paper.

Thanks again,
Elton


From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Tue Sep  8 19:33:57 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:33:57 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] test
Message-ID: <SNT102-W579015B6A590A060B19BBBA2EA0@phx.gbl>


test
_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1

From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 21:08:53 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:08:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] What is and isn't a Widmanstatten Pattern was
	Cooling rates
In-Reply-To: <961119.32082.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <528744.14565.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I guess once again as with CCDs my education is outdated.  I see that any metal compound or mixture can be called an alloy. OR it has come into such common use the distinction between mixture and compound is obsolete when talking about metals.

Elton

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Mr EMan <mstreman53 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Mr EMan <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What is and isn't a Widmanstatten Pattern was Cooling rates
> To: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>, "Jeff Grossman" <jgrossman at usgs.gov>
> Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 6:38 PM
> --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Jeff Grossman
> <jgrossman at usgs.gov>
> wrote:
>  <<Most of the metallic minerals in iron meteorites
> are described as
> "alloys" in that they are composed of various metals
> combined together.>>?
> 
> I understood the distinction was that the Fe Ni formed a
> "chemical compound" not merely a mixture like copper and tin
> to make brass but even brass can form crystalline plates so
> that may be a bad example. It was my understanding that were
> it not for the mineral structure The Fe-Ni would be called
> an alloy.? Agreed that it is frequently discussed in
> terms of alloy.
> 
>  <<It does not happen as the metal cools from the
> liquid state and solidifies.>>
> 
> I stand corrected, 30 years is a lot of facts to keep in
> just one's head. I did recall correctly that there is a
> temperature range and below which all translocation stops.
> Seems off the top of my head it is 800?C.
> 
> <<Goldstein and coworkers have shown that the process
> is controlled by the Fe-Ni-P phase diagram>>.?
> 
> I have long suspected that phosphorus was a key component
> in the process--likely as a catalyst.? The
> Schreibersite seems to exist largely at the boundaries in
> thin laminae even surrounding trolite nodules.? I look
> forward to reading Goldstein's paper.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Elton
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 21:17:44 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:17:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Antitaenite
Message-ID: <955098.44528.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I see that a new mineral came and went last decade and I don't recall a discussion of it on the list. Course the list was may not have been around in 1995!  It was found in Vaca Muerta. Fe3Ni. I also see that the IMA rejected it as a new mineral.  Passed along for your perusal from the wikipedia article: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitaenite>

Antitaenite is a meteoritic metal alloy mineral composed of iron and nickel, 20-40% Ni (and traces of other elements) that has a face centered cubic crystal structure. Its existence as a new mineral species occurring in both iron meteorites and in chondrites was first recognized in 1995.[1] There are three other known Fe-Ni meterotic minerals: kamacite, taenite, and tetrataenite. The pair of minerals antitaenite and taenite constitute the first example in nature of two minerals that have the same crystal structure (face centered cubic) and can have the same chemical composition (same proportions of Fe and Ni) - they differ in their electronic structures: taenite is a high magnetic moment alloy whereas antitaenite is a low magnetic moment alloy. This unique difference in electronic structure was first established in 1999[2] and arises from a high-magnetic-moment to low-magnetic-moment transition occurring in the Fe-Ni bi-metallic alloy series.[3] The same
 electronic structure transition is believed to be a causal factor in Invar behaviour.

Elton


From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 21:54:29 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 18:54:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Plessite and Schreibersite. was Widmanstatten
	Pattern
In-Reply-To: <528744.14565.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <716973.53775.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

As the ravages of time rake through my memory...some is coming back to me.  The mineral Plessite is an intermediate mixture of both taenite and kamacite. It may be the bulk mineral in iron meteorites.  I need to find it it is also the composition of the iron flecks in common chondrites of does that nickel-iron come in various flavors?  

I am remiss for not speaking of plessite more frequently when talking about kamacite and taenite.

Its name even means filling ( Gr:plythos) It's German name is Fulleisen

Buchwald and Massalski named some varieties(according to Wikipedia):
    * acicular plessite/Type I plessite
    * black plessite/Type II plessite
    * cellular plessite/Type III plessite
    * comb plessite
    * net plessite
    * pearlitic plessite
    * spheroidized plessite

My recollections are that schreibersite favors almost exclusively taenite boundaries( I may be mistaken again) and this is where I got insight into my private hypothesis that phosphorus is a critical factor in differentiating taenite from kamacite on the macro level.  I suspect(dangerous I know) that the schreibersite bands/fronts, once developed provide a catalyst zone preferential for taenite and/or nickel, drawing it through the laminae and stacking it behind the front. As the taenite builds up the front advances into the plessite so long as the temperature remains within the phase envelope.  Now if I can find that envelope...  I can't begin to theorize how schreibersite accreted to the band that it does when it does but it seems to have a propensity to do so.  In ataxites schreibersite can form crystals plates instead of bands. Owing to its yellow brassy color my be mistaken for troilite. 

I am throwing this out in case anyone has some journal articles on the subject or cares to discuss the chemistry.  If and when I find the specific of past research I'll pass that along.  For now I want to get the Goldman pdf file and see what I should already know at my age.

Elton



From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 22:17:41 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:17:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Frank's hypothesis
Message-ID: <911133.76928.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

Theoretical physics question of the day:

Years ago I read of a stable Earth-Moon orbital path. Now the Earth outgasses, so some of this would appear to go into this orbital path. Could water accrete there in that path, and then return to Earth, or would the vacuum just tear any accretion apart again?

In any case, it looks like what Frank saw was an instrument artifact.

Ed


      


From pshugar at clearwire.net  Tue Sep  8 23:26:35 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 22:26:35 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] RePallasites
Message-ID: <8C898AE6038F4F2A891BCD5E61D7A4CF@laptop>

Hello list,
I have a question.
I have a piece of Brenham, Ks. It has very slim metal dividers that seperate
the Olivine crystal pockets.
There are other Pallasites that have much thicker metal dividers with 
smaller
Olivine pockets.
The question----would the former be formed further from the core than the 
latter?
In other words, are there differences in the Olivine/Ni-Fe ratio if the 
meteorite
comes from the area closer to the core or further away from the core per a 
cubic
meter quantity of each.
Pete IMCA 1733




From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  8 23:28:39 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:28:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Frank's hypothesis
In-Reply-To: <911133.76928.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <381334.12367.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

It is a statistical certainty that Apollo era urine is still in lunar and Terran orbit Perhaps it has been freeze dried.  Would make an interesting micrometeorite.

Elton

--- On Tue, 9/8/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Frank's hypothesis
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 10:17 PM
> Hi all - 
> 
> Theoretical physics question of the day:
> 
> Years ago I read of a stable Earth-Moon orbital path. Now
> the Earth outgasses, so some of this would appear to go into
> this orbital path. Could water accrete there in that path,
> and then return to Earth, or would the vacuum just tear any
> accretion apart again?
> 
> In any case, it looks like what Frank saw was an instrument
> artifact.
> 
> Ed



From gmhupe at htn.net  Tue Sep  8 23:28:58 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 23:28:58 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] 99 cent Lunar & Martian Auctions - AD
Message-ID: <A10226AFE02F44B38C8B83DE84236B0A@Gregor>

Dear List Members,

Another week, and another set of 'Steal-of-A-Deal' auctions ending tomorrow 
(Wednesday, September 9th). A slow start to bidding means great deals for 
those who are willing to check 'em out!

Aside from the above mentioned deals, I also have listed the last four 
"Ocate", New Mexico iron specimens, a True American iron! In addition to 
these, the last pieces of the incredible "3-Layer Cake, A Visual Treat" - 
NWA 5407, an amazing Impact Melt! The last specimens of these have been 
listed for 30-Day auctions with "Make Offer" Option. I thought I would try 
something new and see how it goes.

Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

Thanks for bidding! I hope you win what you are after!!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault






From dave at fallingrocks.com  Tue Sep  8 23:40:04 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 23:40:04 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
Message-ID: <52188D695C9D463FB0C1A8D1DD3B278D@meteorroom>

All,
Pete's question re: pallasites reminds me of one I've been meaning to throw
out to the group for a while.  I believe that, by definition, L6's come from
one parent body and L5's, say, come from another.  It's clear why breccias
might simply be an association of the two.  But I've seen cross section
illustrations of hypothetical asteroids more than once which indicate a
transitional progression from L3 material at the exterior/crust through L4,
then L5, and eventually to L6 at the center/core.  Presumably this is due to
insulative properties and the like towards the interior which allow more
heat from radioactivity to build up, etc, but this also seems to indicate a
single parent body.  I'm sure Sterling & Co. might have a field day with
this one, and I'm looking forward to any responses out there...
Thanks much,
Dave

Dave Gheesling
IMCA #5967
www.fallingrocks.com 



From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 23:57:27 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:57:27 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] RePallasites
In-Reply-To: <8C898AE6038F4F2A891BCD5E61D7A4CF@laptop>
References: <8C898AE6038F4F2A891BCD5E61D7A4CF@laptop>
Message-ID: <93aaac890909082057v43ae617ey18eb74e82a4608de@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Pete,
I'm not as well-versed in the science of such things as many on the
list, but I would point out that there are many multi-kg specimens of
Brenham that are composed entirely of iron.  Other good examples of
similar features occurring in meteorites including, but not limited
to, Seymchan, initially mis-classified as a IIE iron because no
olivine was observed in the first pieces discovered, as well as the
Glorieta Mountain pallasite - the main mass was, from what I've heard,
was 100% nickel-iron, with some troilite and schreibersite inclusions.

Well, have a look:

http://www.nyrockman.com/auction-2008/lots/seymchan3376g.htm

http://www.meteoritefinder.com/catalog/glorieta-col-947.htm

http://www.meteoritefinder.com/collection/glorieta-101.7.htm

http://www.meteoritefinder.com/collection/glorieta-175.6.htm

To that end, I believe it's safe to say that the spacing of the
olivine crystals has noting to do with distance from the core.
Regards,
Jason


On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Pete Shugar<pshugar at clearwire.net> wrote:
> Hello list,
> I have a question.
> I have a piece of Brenham, Ks. It has very slim metal dividers that seperate
> the Olivine crystal pockets.
> There are other Pallasites that have much thicker metal dividers with
> smaller
> Olivine pockets.
> The question----would the former be formed further from the core than the
> latter?
> In other words, are there differences in the Olivine/Ni-Fe ratio if the
> meteorite
> comes from the area closer to the core or further away from the core per a
> cubic
> meter quantity of each.
> Pete IMCA 1733
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Sep  9 01:05:06 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:05:06 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Frank's hypothesis
In-Reply-To: <381334.12367.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <911133.76928.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<381334.12367.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <lpdea59vj391jj9khtm253urtutd0p30tg@4ax.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:28:39 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>It is a statistical certainty that Apollo era urine is still in 
>lunar and Terran orbit Perhaps it has been freeze dried.  

Freeze dried water?

Okay, mostly water.  In an ugly bag.  


From dave at fallingrocks.com  Wed Sep  9 01:20:35 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 01:20:35 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
In-Reply-To: <52188D695C9D463FB0C1A8D1DD3B278D@meteorroom>
References: <52188D695C9D463FB0C1A8D1DD3B278D@meteorroom>
Message-ID: <9E13859409384A09B3E1EC2103908A12@meteorroom>

PS - Darren has been kind enough to send some great resources along off
list.  I can't recall where the notion of separate parent bodies denoted by
alteration first hit my screen, but I'm rather certain it was here on the
list.  Having previously assumed three parent bodies (H, L, and amphoterite)
all along, that one hit me by surprise.  The rapid movement in meteoritics
must have taken my threshold of assumption with it.  Reminiscent of looking
for my sunglasses all over the house last weekend, only to realize the
search was being conducted through them...on my face.  Anyway, one of these
days I might know enough to read and actually comprehend more than half the
articles in MAPS, but until then this list is one fantastic resource -- even
for dumb questions (which, at the end of the day, are the ones which aren't
asked).  Thanks again, Darren!
DG

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Gheesling
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 11:40 PM
To: 'Meteorite List'
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies

All,
Pete's question re: pallasites reminds me of one I've been meaning to throw
out to the group for a while.  I believe that, by definition, L6's come from
one parent body and L5's, say, come from another.  It's clear why breccias
might simply be an association of the two.  But I've seen cross section
illustrations of hypothetical asteroids more than once which indicate a
transitional progression from L3 material at the exterior/crust through L4,
then L5, and eventually to L6 at the center/core.  Presumably this is due to
insulative properties and the like towards the interior which allow more
heat from radioactivity to build up, etc, but this also seems to indicate a
single parent body.  I'm sure Sterling & Co. might have a field day with
this one, and I'm looking forward to any responses out there...
Thanks much,
Dave

Dave Gheesling
IMCA #5967
www.fallingrocks.com 

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 01:25:21 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 01:25:21 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Great Lead - Dead End
Message-ID: <f0a794130909082225r6f91fa3cvbb087fa0f486d4af@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Guys,

I got this lead last week:

Mike, I was reading the Lancaster paper tonight and saw about the
meteorite-I think this clears something up for me- I am in New
Holland, Pa on the early morning of July 6th, I couldnt sleep and was
watching tv- all the sudden I heard a huge bang right outside my 2nd
story bedroom( scared the living outta me. I peeked out and didnt see
anything, I thought at the time someone must have thrown a m-80 or
something at my window-upon inspecting better in the morning there is
a huge dent on the top of my patio roof with black splat marks, right
underneath my bedroom window-it also left a couple holes. I looked
around on the ground to see if I could see anything there, but now i
will have to check a little harder, after seeing your pic in the
paper. But I am sure now that is what it was, because my house does
not have easy access to my back yard-Thanks for the article but I
think you need to be looking north of intercourse-Jeane

I went out to her house last Thursday and Friday and again tonight.

I got on the top of the main roof tonight and saw what could be more
damage (but could also be nothing)...

I ran an earth magnet through the dirty in the flower beds near her
porch... I got a lot of hits, there is a lot of metal in the ground.

I've posted pics and a full a report on my site:

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/baltimore-pa-meteor/great-lead-dead-end/

I feel like this is a really great lead, but I've done just about all
I can do and I'm still coming up empty. I have gotten some feedback
that suggests the dent in the roof does not look like a
meteorite-dent.

Any suggestions are much appreciated, I'm really stumped on this and
don't know what I should do next.

Thanks,

Mike

P.S. For what its worth, Jeane lives a couple miles away from Blue
Ball, PA (which is pretty much what i got searching for meteorites at
her house).


From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Wed Sep  9 08:59:32 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 08:59:32 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
In-Reply-To: <52188D695C9D463FB0C1A8D1DD3B278D@meteorroom>
References: <52188D695C9D463FB0C1A8D1DD3B278D@meteorroom>
Message-ID: <OFB69C8052.E531D843-ON8525762C.004761EE@usgs.gov>

I'm not sure why you thought there was a definition that requires L5 
and L6 chondrites to come from different parent asteroids... there 
isn't.  Questions like this are open to investigation.  Isotopic data 
show that the different petrologic types of L chondrites all 
experienced a major shock event around 500 million years ago, which 
means that at least many of them came from a single parent 
body.  Similarly, different petrologic types of H chondrites show 
evidence for a break-up event around 7.5 million years ago.  There is 
still debate over the importance of "onion shell" vs. "rubble pile" 
models of the asteroids, but not so much over whether the different 
petrologic types come (or came) from a single asteroid.

jeff

At 11:40 PM 9/8/2009, Dave Gheesling wrote:
>All,
>Pete's question re: pallasites reminds me of one I've been meaning to throw
>out to the group for a while.  I believe that, by definition, L6's come from
>one parent body and L5's, say, come from another.  It's clear why breccias
>might simply be an association of the two.  But I've seen cross section
>illustrations of hypothetical asteroids more than once which indicate a
>transitional progression from L3 material at the exterior/crust through L4,
>then L5, and eventually to L6 at the center/core.  Presumably this is due to
>insulative properties and the like towards the interior which allow more
>heat from radioactivity to build up, etc, but this also seems to indicate a
>single parent body.  I'm sure Sterling & Co. might have a field day with
>this one, and I'm looking forward to any responses out there...
>Thanks much,
>Dave
>
>Dave Gheesling
>IMCA #5967
>www.fallingrocks.com
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de  Wed Sep  9 09:21:18 2009
From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Meteorite-Recon.com)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:21:18 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
Message-ID: <19384660.1406321252502478117.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver>

Hi Jeff, others,

certainly true as far as the majority of L-chondritic material is concerned. But Dave?s question is in so far justified as there are several exceptional L-chondrites that show particular differences in their lithology compared to other L-chondrites. If my information on this subject isn?t out of date, the group of L-chondrites around Mt. Tazerzait, Baszk?wka and Tjerebon are believed to originate from a different parent body as the other L-chondrites.

If my memory doesn?t cheat me in this matter these chondrites show a lesser degree of compaction and a high amount of interstitial pores with growth of euhedral to anhedral crystals in these vugs. A group around A. Pilski even argued that these crystals provide evidence for hydrothermal activity in the particular mother body of these L-chondrites. 

Perhaps someone wants to look up the cosmic ray exposure data on the Mt. Tazerzait "grouplet" to see if a different shock event played a role in the production & delivery of these meteorites ...

I am clearly not an expert in this field so please beat me if I?am wrong here.

Cheers

Svend

www.meteorite-recon.com


---------------
Jeff Grossman wrote:

I'm not sure why you thought there was a definition that requires L5 
and L6 chondrites to come from different parent asteroids... there 
isn't.  Questions like this are open to investigation.  Isotopic data 
show that the different petrologic types of L chondrites all 
experienced a major shock event around 500 million years ago, which 
means that at least many of them came from a single parent 
body.  Similarly, different petrologic types of H chondrites show 
evidence for a break-up event around 7.5 million years ago.  There is 
still debate over the importance of "onion shell" vs. "rubble pile" 
models of the asteroids, but not so much over whether the different 
petrologic types come (or came) from a single asteroid.

jeff

At 11:40 PM 9/8/2009, Dave Gheesling wrote:
>All,
>Pete's question re: pallasites reminds me of one I've been meaning to throw
>out to the group for a while.  I believe that, by definition, L6's come from
>one parent body and L5's, say, come from another.  It's clear why breccias
>might simply be an association of the two.  But I've seen cross section
>illustrations of hypothetical asteroids more than once which indicate a
>transitional progression from L3 material at the exterior/crust through L4,
>then L5, and eventually to L6 at the center/core.  Presumably this is due to
>insulative properties and the like towards the interior which allow more
>heat from radioactivity to build up, etc, but this also seems to indicate a
>single parent body.  I'm sure Sterling & Co. might have a field day with
>this one, and I'm looking forward to any responses out there...
>Thanks much,
>Dave
>
>Dave Gheesling
>IMCA #5967
>www.fallingrocks.com
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



-- 
www.meteorite-recon.com


From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Sep  9 11:36:41 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:36:41 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Frank's hypothesis
In-Reply-To: <381334.12367.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <911133.76928.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<381334.12367.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <pnifa55r8j9uarscage629mm3pnhe38fmr@4ax.com>

On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:28:39 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>It is a statistical certainty that Apollo era urine is still in 
>lunar and Terran orbit 

When I read this last night, it made me think of a science fiction story-- but
it took me a while to track the title down.  This is worth a read:

http://www.asimovs.com/_issue_0805/Apollo8.shtml


From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Sep  9 11:45:08 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:45:08 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Does this seem implausible to anyone else?
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909082225r6f91fa3cvbb087fa0f486d4af@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0a794130909082225r6f91fa3cvbb087fa0f486d4af@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <i4jfa59qfmt2e26k3th9pgs47ievjr7i2p@4ax.com>

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hRa6u8O0ZprE7dF10g8FMNv1ERig

Patagonia site of world's biggest crater field: study

(AFP) ? 19 hours ago

BUENOS AIRES ? Argentina can lay claim to the world's largest crater field, a
volcanic area in Patagonia known as the "Devil's Slope," according to a study
released Tuesday.

Covering 400 square kilometers (154 square miles), the Bajada del Diablo field
is peppered with at least 100 depressions left by the collisions of meteorites
or comets 130,000 to 780,000 years ago, the study found.

"Each crater measures between 100 and 500 meters (yards) in diameter and is
between 30 and 50 meters deep, which makes it the biggest such field in the
world in terms of the size of the craters," said Rogelio Acevedo of the Southern
Center for Scientific Investigations.

The study, published in the September edition of the journal Geomorphology, was
led by Acevedo and Hugo Corbella, who first identified the field in the 1970s.

Thirty years later, the team obtained financing from the Argentine province of
Chubut and the National Geographic Society to survey the field.

In terms of the number of craters, the field is only the second largest in the
world after the Sikhote-Aalin field in Siberia, which has 159 craters.

"But in Siberia the craters are smaller," Acevedo said.

With just one impact of the size that struck Patagonia, he said, Buenos Aires
"would be pulverized in a matter of seconds."

He said the field's craters, which are visible on Google Earth, are similar to
those found on the Moon, Mercury, Mars and Venus, making them worthy of further
study.

They are well preserved because the remote sheep-raising region in which they
are found is arid and sparsely populated, he said, adding that it will be
necessary to protect it from tourists.

But Acevedo suggested, "this exceptional place could become a natural park."

Argentina has another crater field, called Campo de Cielo, in the northern Chaco
province. There are only nine such fields in the world.



Also:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V93-4W2NDK5-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1005936461&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=6d007a363d66c8808fd411934d4da9d3


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 10:57:30 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 07:57:30 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Does this seem implausible to anyone else?
In-Reply-To: <i4jfa59qfmt2e26k3th9pgs47ievjr7i2p@4ax.com>
References: <f0a794130909082225r6f91fa3cvbb087fa0f486d4af@mail.gmail.com>
	<i4jfa59qfmt2e26k3th9pgs47ievjr7i2p@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890909090757s560983afmcd02d9239313895b@mail.gmail.com>

Darren, All,
Well, have a look at the region from google earth.  There are quite
literally hundreds (if not thousands) of elongate depressions that are
quite easily visible from the air.  I used to spend quite a bit of
time looking for new craters on google earth, and the area really had
me stumped for a while; in addition to the three or four original
craters noted, I found hundreds of new ones, all of which were aligned
in-line with the original discoveries, and all of which
looked....pretty much the same, varying only in size.  The trouble
with the article is that it states that the area in which these
features occur is only 400 km/sq.  It covers literally thousands of
square kilometers.
If they're actually meteoric, that was one hell of a rubble-pile
asteroid that gave Argentina something akin to a shotgun blast of
extraterrestrial matter.  If not...well, hell if I know what they are.
Regards,
Jason

On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Darren Garrison<cynapse at charter.net> wrote:
> http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hRa6u8O0ZprE7dF10g8FMNv1ERig
>
> Patagonia site of world's biggest crater field: study
>
> (AFP) ? 19 hours ago
>
> BUENOS AIRES ? Argentina can lay claim to the world's largest crater field, a
> volcanic area in Patagonia known as the "Devil's Slope," according to a study
> released Tuesday.
>
> Covering 400 square kilometers (154 square miles), the Bajada del Diablo field
> is peppered with at least 100 depressions left by the collisions of meteorites
> or comets 130,000 to 780,000 years ago, the study found.
>
> "Each crater measures between 100 and 500 meters (yards) in diameter and is
> between 30 and 50 meters deep, which makes it the biggest such field in the
> world in terms of the size of the craters," said Rogelio Acevedo of the Southern
> Center for Scientific Investigations.
>
> The study, published in the September edition of the journal Geomorphology, was
> led by Acevedo and Hugo Corbella, who first identified the field in the 1970s.
>
> Thirty years later, the team obtained financing from the Argentine province of
> Chubut and the National Geographic Society to survey the field.
>
> In terms of the number of craters, the field is only the second largest in the
> world after the Sikhote-Aalin field in Siberia, which has 159 craters.
>
> "But in Siberia the craters are smaller," Acevedo said.
>
> With just one impact of the size that struck Patagonia, he said, Buenos Aires
> "would be pulverized in a matter of seconds."
>
> He said the field's craters, which are visible on Google Earth, are similar to
> those found on the Moon, Mercury, Mars and Venus, making them worthy of further
> study.
>
> They are well preserved because the remote sheep-raising region in which they
> are found is arid and sparsely populated, he said, adding that it will be
> necessary to protect it from tourists.
>
> But Acevedo suggested, "this exceptional place could become a natural park."
>
> Argentina has another crater field, called Campo de Cielo, in the northern Chaco
> province. There are only nine such fields in the world.
>
>
>
> Also:
>
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V93-4W2NDK5-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1005936461&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=6d007a363d66c8808fd411934d4da9d3
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Sep  9 12:01:09 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:01:09 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Does this seem implausible to anyone else?
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890909090757s560983afmcd02d9239313895b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0a794130909082225r6f91fa3cvbb087fa0f486d4af@mail.gmail.com>
	<i4jfa59qfmt2e26k3th9pgs47ievjr7i2p@4ax.com>
	<93aaac890909090757s560983afmcd02d9239313895b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <o6kfa5leose5dkrtk2164n0d0j9tmub20p@4ax.com>

On Wed, 9 Sep 2009 07:57:30 -0700, you wrote:

>literally hundreds (if not thousands) of elongate depressions that are

...

>craters noted, I found hundreds of new ones, all of which were aligned
>in-line with the original discoveries, and all of which
>looked....pretty much the same, varying only in size.  The trouble

...

>with the article is that it states that the area in which these
>features occur is only 400 km/sq.  It covers literally thousands of
>square kilometers.
>If they're actually meteoric, that was one hell of a rubble-pile
>asteroid that gave Argentina something akin to a shotgun blast of
>extraterrestrial matter.  If not...well, hell if I know what they are.

Sounds a lot like Carolina Bays to me.


From dave at fallingrocks.com  Wed Sep  9 11:04:43 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:04:43 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
In-Reply-To: <OFB69C8052.E531D843-ON8525762C.004761EE@usgs.gov>
References: <52188D695C9D463FB0C1A8D1DD3B278D@meteorroom>
	<OFB69C8052.E531D843-ON8525762C.004761EE@usgs.gov>
Message-ID: <94BAAD0814484D8087C550448E6216DC@meteorroom>

Hi, Jeff,

Thanks for your response.  I always look forward to learning something from
your posts to the list, and below I'm reminded of the dating of the L and H
shock events.  Do you recall such a date for amphoterites by chance?

I followed up my question with a rather clear and somewhat self-depricating
note...last night and well before your response this morning.  Assuming you
may have missed it, I explained that I'd picked this notion up on the list
but couldn't recall when or from whom, etc.  I either misread a post or the
post was just simply wrong.  And it was late last night, so my question
wasn't crafted very well either...obviously.

Svend beat me to the punch, but there are obviously exceptions and even some
questions to the existing definition.  Even your mention below that "at
least many of them came from a single parent body" prompts some interesting
questions in my mind.  Without the context and foundation of having spent a
few decades as a professional meteoriticist, as I referenced before in the
thought re: MAPS, it is not always easy for an general enthusiast like me to
understand where the gray areas are.  And as people like you thankfully
continue to rapidly raise the bar of knowledge, I've learned to accept that
a lot of iron clad definitions aren't so iron clad.

All best,

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Grossman
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:00 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies

I'm not sure why you thought there was a definition that requires L5 and L6
chondrites to come from different parent asteroids... there isn't.
Questions like this are open to investigation.  Isotopic data show that the
different petrologic types of L chondrites all experienced a major shock
event around 500 million years ago, which means that at least many of them
came from a single parent body.  Similarly, different petrologic types of H
chondrites show evidence for a break-up event around 7.5 million years ago.
There is still debate over the importance of "onion shell" vs. "rubble pile"

models of the asteroids, but not so much over whether the different
petrologic types come (or came) from a single asteroid.

jeff

At 11:40 PM 9/8/2009, Dave Gheesling wrote:
>All,
>Pete's question re: pallasites reminds me of one I've been meaning to 
>throw out to the group for a while.  I believe that, by definition, 
>L6's come from one parent body and L5's, say, come from another.  It's 
>clear why breccias might simply be an association of the two.  But I've 
>seen cross section illustrations of hypothetical asteroids more than 
>once which indicate a transitional progression from L3 material at the 
>exterior/crust through L4, then L5, and eventually to L6 at the 
>center/core.  Presumably this is due to insulative properties and the 
>like towards the interior which allow more heat from radioactivity to 
>build up, etc, but this also seems to indicate a single parent body.  
>I'm sure Sterling & Co. might have a field day with this one, and I'm
looking forward to any responses out there...
>Thanks much,
>Dave
>
>Dave Gheesling
>IMCA #5967
>www.fallingrocks.com
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From fujmon at mac.com  Wed Sep  9 11:19:47 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 05:19:47 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-ebay ASP auction
Message-ID: <7439371A-A4A7-4176-81AC-4698E59BCC93@mac.com>

Hope you've recovered from the long Labor Day weekend.  I have ebay  
auctions ending Saturday (beginning at 12:37 pm PDT).  Up on the block  
are:

NWA 869 L4-6 - cherry and oriented (w/ nice rollover lipping)  
individuals
Sahara 02500 L3.8 - 154g individual (good for cutting into slices)
NWA Pallasite - 2.11g olivine encrusted fragment of a rare desert  
pallasite
Pultusk H5 - 5.54g crusted full slice of this historic Polish fall
Sulagiri LL6 - 0.53g partslice of this rare fall from India
Allende CV3 - 3.19g crusted individual (one of the most studied  
meteorites)
Tatahouine Dio - 1.04g fragment
Olivine Bomb - 191.4g Split and polished half stones of green olivine

... and more.  These are all top quality pieces that would make a  
great addition to your collection, with many still at 99?  ... so  
what's the ASP in the subject title in reference to?  Well, I'll be  
attending the Astronomical Society of the Pacific (ASP) conference in  
Millbrae, and if any of you happen to win an auction and are attending  
ASP too, I'll be able to hand deliver your specimen!

http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

ALSO:  Latest shipment from the hot deserts of Africa:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2034186&id=1394318075&l=a9c3592ce4

Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From illaenus at wp.pl  Wed Sep  9 11:33:09 2009
From: illaenus at wp.pl (Tomasz Jakubowski)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 17:33:09 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD Meteorite sale
Message-ID: <4aa7cab59a2b87.64360263@wp.pl>

Dear List Members,
I have still few meteorites for sale/trade, here a list with some 
description:

- NWA Ureilite (now I am waiting for NWA number after first study), two 
last huge slices 43.6 grams and 36.9 grams. This Ureilite have very nice 
green, yellow olivine crystals, loots of vein like area filled by 
graphite between Ol and Px minerals. Specimen is very fresh.
Photos (Zoom to see details) :
http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/UreiliteSlice43Grams#   size: 
71x65x4 mm
and second slice :
http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/UreiliteSlice36Grams#  size: 67x62x4 
mm
on request I can send hi-res photo of slices and Microscopy photos).

-Sikhote Alin 1360 grams oriented individual. Amazing quality of crust, 
loot&rsquo;s of flow lines and rollover lips.
http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/SikhoteAlin1360Grams#  size: 
127x97x48 mm

- Henbury 516 grams, specimen with super shape (looks like Neolithic 
tool !).
http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/Henbury516G#   size:122x56x32 mm

- NWA xxx probably LL6 chondrite, with fresh crust. Weight 3.2 kg, two 
types of litology visible on fresh surface. On fusion crust surface thin 
flow lines are visible.
http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWA32KgLL#  size:  135x124x117 mm

-Polymictic Eucrite NWA 2724 100 grams full slice. Very fresh EUC with 
great interior and huge surface area! Membrane box include.
http://picasaweb.google.pl/illaenus/NWA2724Eucrite#  size: 148x108mm

All details, photos please write to my address : illaenus at gmail.com
Trades is also available.


Kind Regards
Tomasz Jakubowski
IMCA  #2321

----------------------------------------------------
Pasztety atakuj? sie?! Zobacz najwi?ksze brzydactwa w necie;)
http://klik.wp.pl/?adr=http%3A%2F%2Fpasztetowo.pl&sid=854




From aerubin at ucla.edu  Wed Sep  9 12:26:27 2009
From: aerubin at ucla.edu (Alan Rubin)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:26:27 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
References: <19384660.1406321252502478117.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver>
Message-ID: <67E998C3B91F49AD99EDB055A2E016A1@SINOITE>

There are some porous chondrites but as far as I know there is no reason to 
believe that they are from separate bodies.  They may have suffered more (or 
less) impact-induced compaction than the majority of rocks.  But one should 
check their cosmic-ray exposure ages, shock ages, etc. to see if they share 
some of these characteristics with their colleagues.
Alan Rubin


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Meteorite-Recon.com" <info at niger-meteorite-recon.de>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies


> Hi Jeff, others,
>
> certainly true as far as the majority of L-chondritic material is 
> concerned. But Dave?s question is in so far justified as there are several 
> exceptional L-chondrites that show particular differences in their 
> lithology compared to other L-chondrites. If my information on this 
> subject isn?t out of date, the group of L-chondrites around Mt. Tazerzait, 
> Baszk?wka and Tjerebon are believed to originate from a different parent 
> body as the other L-chondrites.
>
> If my memory doesn?t cheat me in this matter these chondrites show a 
> lesser degree of compaction and a high amount of interstitial pores with 
> growth of euhedral to anhedral crystals in these vugs. A group around A. 
> Pilski even argued that these crystals provide evidence for hydrothermal 
> activity in the particular mother body of these L-chondrites.
>
> Perhaps someone wants to look up the cosmic ray exposure data on the Mt. 
> Tazerzait "grouplet" to see if a different shock event played a role in 
> the production & delivery of these meteorites ...
>
> I am clearly not an expert in this field so please beat me if I?am wrong 
> here.
>
> Cheers
>
> Svend
>
> www.meteorite-recon.com
>
>
> ---------------
> Jeff Grossman wrote:
>
> I'm not sure why you thought there was a definition that requires L5
> and L6 chondrites to come from different parent asteroids... there
> isn't.  Questions like this are open to investigation.  Isotopic data
> show that the different petrologic types of L chondrites all
> experienced a major shock event around 500 million years ago, which
> means that at least many of them came from a single parent
> body.  Similarly, different petrologic types of H chondrites show
> evidence for a break-up event around 7.5 million years ago.  There is
> still debate over the importance of "onion shell" vs. "rubble pile"
> models of the asteroids, but not so much over whether the different
> petrologic types come (or came) from a single asteroid.
>
> jeff
>
> At 11:40 PM 9/8/2009, Dave Gheesling wrote:
>>All,
>>Pete's question re: pallasites reminds me of one I've been meaning to 
>>throw
>>out to the group for a while.  I believe that, by definition, L6's come 
>>from
>>one parent body and L5's, say, come from another.  It's clear why breccias
>>might simply be an association of the two.  But I've seen cross section
>>illustrations of hypothetical asteroids more than once which indicate a
>>transitional progression from L3 material at the exterior/crust through 
>>L4,
>>then L5, and eventually to L6 at the center/core.  Presumably this is due 
>>to
>>insulative properties and the like towards the interior which allow more
>>heat from radioactivity to build up, etc, but this also seems to indicate 
>>a
>>single parent body.  I'm sure Sterling & Co. might have a field day with
>>this one, and I'm looking forward to any responses out there...
>>Thanks much,
>>Dave
>>
>>Dave Gheesling
>>IMCA #5967
>>www.fallingrocks.com
>>
>>______________________________________________
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
> US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
> -- 
> www.meteorite-recon.com
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From aerubin at ucla.edu  Wed Sep  9 12:23:29 2009
From: aerubin at ucla.edu (Alan Rubin)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 09:23:29 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
References: <52188D695C9D463FB0C1A8D1DD3B278D@meteorroom>
Message-ID: <03973F0CA8BA45F49A03D8F57E6C32BC@SINOITE>

The general supposition is that all L chondrites come from one parent body, 
that H chondrites come from another, etc.  We don't know this to be strictly 
true, but there is evidence that it is broadly true.  For example, about 
two-thirds of all L chondrites (of different petrologic types) were shocked 
about 470 Ma ago or so, indicating that they were on the same parent body at 
that time.  Similarly, nearly half of all H chondrites (of different 
petrologic types) have a cosmic-ray exposure age of about 7.5 Ma indicating 
that they were all within about a kilometer of each other (or so) at that 
time.  The idea that the parent bodies were stratified with the type-6 
chondrites in the center and type-5s closer to the surface, etc. is known as 
the onion shell model.  There is some evidence for it and some against it. 
Hence, some researchers are strong advocates and others reject the model. 
As is clear, the situation is not yet resolved.
Alan Rubin

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Gheesling" <dave at fallingrocks.com>
To: "'Meteorite List'" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:40 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies


> All,
> Pete's question re: pallasites reminds me of one I've been meaning to 
> throw
> out to the group for a while.  I believe that, by definition, L6's come 
> from
> one parent body and L5's, say, come from another.  It's clear why breccias
> might simply be an association of the two.  But I've seen cross section
> illustrations of hypothetical asteroids more than once which indicate a
> transitional progression from L3 material at the exterior/crust through 
> L4,
> then L5, and eventually to L6 at the center/core.  Presumably this is due 
> to
> insulative properties and the like towards the interior which allow more
> heat from radioactivity to build up, etc, but this also seems to indicate 
> a
> single parent body.  I'm sure Sterling & Co. might have a field day with
> this one, and I'm looking forward to any responses out there...
> Thanks much,
> Dave
>
> Dave Gheesling
> IMCA #5967
> www.fallingrocks.com
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Wed Sep  9 12:46:17 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 12:46:17 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 9,
	2009
Message-ID: <bd8.3e4688c2.37d935d9@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_9_2009.html  



From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Wed Sep  9 12:47:04 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 09 Sep 2009 16:47:04 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000003000003FFB@paulinet.de>

Hello Dave, Alan, and List,

Here is a paper that may be of interest with regard to LL chondrite parent bodies:

Dixon E.T., Bogard D.D. and Garrison D.H. (2002) 40Ar-39Ar Chronology
of LL Chondrites (Lunar and Planetary Science XXXIII, 1114.pdf).

They even discuss *three* models:

1. The onion-shell model
2. The rubble-pile model
3. The re-assembly model


Best wishes,

Bernd





From kowalski at lpl.arizona.edu  Wed Sep  9 12:48:51 2009
From: kowalski at lpl.arizona.edu (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 09:48:51 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
Message-ID: <4AA7DC73.8060901@lpl.arizona.edu>

This paper in Astronomy & Astrophysics may be of interest:

http://tinyurl.com/laupyx

It discusses the identification of several new, very young asteroid 
families called Datura, Emilkowalski, 1992YC2, and Lucascavin clusters.

These objects are the largest members of these new families and are 
450+/-50 thousand years (ky), 220+/-30 ky, 50-250 ky, and 200-600 ky 
old, respectively.

As you see, the spectrum of Datura and H4 chondrites are extremely similar.


(A personal comment, Emilkowalski is the sole mainbelt asteroid that I 
discovered  from my backyard observatory when I was an amateur and is 
named for my late father)


-- 
Richard Kowalski
Catalina Sky Survey
Lunar and Planetary Laboratory
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ  85721




--- On Wed, 9/9/09, Alan Rubin <aerubin at ucla.edu> wrote:

 > From: Alan Rubin <aerubin at ucla.edu>
 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
 > To: dave at fallingrocks.com, "'Meteorite List'" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
 > Date: Wednesday, September 9, 2009, 9:23 AM
 > The general supposition is that all L
 > chondrites come from one parent body, that H chondrites come
 > from another, etc.  We don't know this to be strictly
 > true, but there is evidence that it is broadly true.
 > For example, about two-thirds of all L chondrites (of
 > different petrologic types) were shocked about 470 Ma ago or
 > so, indicating that they were on the same parent body at
 > that time.  Similarly, nearly half of all H chondrites
 > (of different petrologic types) have a cosmic-ray exposure
 > age of about 7.5 Ma indicating that they were all within
 > about a kilometer of each other (or so) at that time.
 > The idea that the parent bodies were stratified with the
 > type-6 chondrites in the center and type-5s closer to the
 > surface, etc. is known as the onion shell model.  There
 > is some evidence for it and some against it. Hence, some
 > researchers are strong advocates and others reject the
 > model. As is clear, the situation is not yet resolved.
 > Alan Rubin
 >
 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Gheesling" 
<dave at fallingrocks.com>
 > To: "'Meteorite List'" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
 > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:40 PM
 > Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
 >
 >
 > > All,
 > > Pete's question re: pallasites reminds me of one I've
 > been meaning to throw
 > > out to the group for a while.  I believe that, by
 > definition, L6's come from
 > > one parent body and L5's, say, come from
 > another.  It's clear why breccias
 > > might simply be an association of the two.  But
 > I've seen cross section
 > > illustrations of hypothetical asteroids more than once
 > which indicate a
 > > transitional progression from L3 material at the
 > exterior/crust through L4,
 > > then L5, and eventually to L6 at the
 > center/core.  Presumably this is due to
 > > insulative properties and the like towards the
 > interior which allow more
 > > heat from radioactivity to build up, etc, but this
 > also seems to indicate a
 > > single parent body.  I'm sure Sterling & Co.
 > might have a field day with
 > > this one, and I'm looking forward to any responses out
 > there...
 > > Thanks much,
 > > Dave
 > >
 > > Dave Gheesling
 > > IMCA #5967
 > > www.fallingrocks.com


From schoner at mybluelight.com  Wed Sep  9 13:05:43 2009
From: schoner at mybluelight.com (Steve Schoner)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 17:05:43 GMT
Subject: [meteorite-list] RePallasites
Message-ID: <20090909.110543.15995.0@webmail17.dca.untd.com>

Hello all,

I spent nearly 2 decades searching Glorieta for the elusive pallasite mass that my friend, Harvey Nininger thought was still buried out there.   The original article put out by Kunz in 1885 indicated that a pallasitic mass of about 40 to 60 lbs existed as it was missing from the three main iron masses recovered in that year or the year before.   One side of the three assembled irons had a pallasitic side where the pallasitic mass was missing. 

My focus was in the very rough terrain to the north of Apache Canyon, and toward Glorieta Mountain.   The story of that has been documented in the 2001 issue of Meteorite magazine.   I found many small pallasites in the hills and mountains to the north.

And after thousands of miles of searching, I found a 20 kg Glorieta pallasite.  The very thing I had been seeking for near 20 years, and to date the largest one found.   And I found it in a spot that I had never searched before, way off of the area where I had searched previously, and in 15 minutes into my search with a new Wilson detector.

Now in looking at some of the larger masses found after at Glorieta, I think that the meteoroid was a breccia.   These club shaped irons are like the slabs of iron found in the Portales H6 meteorite.  I think that in the cosmic history of Glorieta meteoroid, that there must have been a catastrophic impact that disrupted the pallasitic body, melting the iron, and fracturing the olivine crystals.  The impacted mass then re-formed, the metal recrystallized, and the parent meteoroid re-constituted. 

Entering the atmosphere in about 1250 AD, it then disrupted at high altitude, and that first disruption was along the pallasitic areas of the meteoroid.   The solid slab and club shaped irons continued in flight, and the disrupted pallasitic masses fell first, scattering to the north and west of the larger solid irons.   Most of the pallasites are small, usually only a few grams, and a few have been found that are in the kilogram range, the largest being 20 kg which I found in 1997.

I think that the original pallasitic parent body was disrupted billions of years ago in massive impacts.   Glorieta has unusual olivine crystals that show fracturing most likely caused by disruption.   Brenham and Springwater on the other hand show fairly distinct olivine crystals with little evidence of violent disruption.   These might be more indicative of the pallasitic core.

Glorieta, a Rokicky group pallasite, shows evidence of cosmic disruption with fractured olivine crystals, and splinters and slabs of solid iron, all of which was again disrupted upon entry into the earth;s atmosphere.

BTW:  In 1990 I found a spectacular olivine crystal, over 1 inch in size, crystal clear and gem quality.   Put it in my pocket only to find later in the day that it fell through a hole.  So somewhere to the north of Apache Canyon lies a nice gem quality Glorieta meteorite crystal.

Hope that the above is understandable, as I have some difficulty putting my thoughts into words, and also my broken left index finger does not help in typing.

Steve Schoner
IMCA #4470  

 




Message: 6
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 20:57:27 -0700
From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] RePallasites
To: Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID:
	<93aaac890909082057v43ae617ey18eb74e82a4608de at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hello Pete,
I'm not as well-versed in the science of such things as many on the
list, but I would point out that there are many multi-kg specimens of
Brenham that are composed entirely of iron.  Other good examples of
similar features occurring in meteorites including, but not limited


to, Seymchan, initially mis-classified as a IIE iron because no
olivine was observed in the first pieces discovered, as well as the
Glorieta Mountain pallasite - the main mass was, from what I've heard,
was 100% nickel-iron, with some troilite and schreibersite inclusions.

Well, have a look:

http://www.nyrockman.com/auction-2008/lots/seymchan3376g.htm

http://www.meteoritefinder.com/catalog/glorieta-col-947.htm

http://www.meteoritefinder.com/collection/glorieta-101.7.htm

http://www.meteoritefinder.com/collection/glorieta-175.6.htm

To that end, I believe it's safe to say that the spacing of the
olivine crystals has noting to do with distance from the core.
Regards,
Jason


On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Pete Shugar<pshugar at clearwire.net> wrote:
> Hello list,
> I have a question.
> I have a piece of Brenham, Ks. It has very slim metal dividers that seperate
> the Olivine crystal pockets.
> There are other Pallasites that have much thicker metal dividers with
> smaller
> Olivine pockets.
> The question----would the former be formed further from the core than the
> latter?
> In other words, are there differences in the Olivine/Ni-Fe ratio if the
> meteorite
> comes from the area closer to the core or further away from the core per a
> cubic
> meter quantity of each.
> Pete IMCA 1733


____________________________________________________________
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.mybluelight.com/TGL2341/fc/BLSrjpdf49pZ7JmHYQvuBjH2F2Yp0ezsU3bI6h8lzGffan6deeUnEkLCxCg/


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 13:39:25 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 13:39:25 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD : Small Budget-Priced UNWA Slices & Endcuts,
	also Neolithic 	Arrowheads, Signed Rocks from Space, and more!
Message-ID: <e51421550909091039u5f81fdebwd88fad035b6f6ae7@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks!

I have some new offerings that might be of interest to some List members. :)

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-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From star-bits at tx.rr.com  Wed Sep  9 13:54:12 2009
From: star-bits at tx.rr.com (star-bits at tx.rr.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 13:54:12 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad - eBay auctions closing shortly
In-Reply-To: <e51421550909091039u5f81fdebwd88fad035b6f6ae7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090909175412.I7WHO.12222.root@cdptpa-web02-z02>

Greetings all 
 
   This didn't show up in my inbox or the archives so I will send it again.  I have a number of auctions closing shortly including 
 
39 gram mundrabilla slice with troilite 
100 gram NWA silicated iron complete slice 
18.3 gram springwater pallasite from ASU (ninninger) trade. 
1.03 gram DAG 400 lunar slice 
0.49 gram Vigarano 
31 gram Mulga North 
11.89 gram oriented sikhote-alin 
and others see them all at 
 
<http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=katy2kary> 
-- 
Eric Olson 
610 W. Moore Rd 
Tucson AZ 85755 
 
http://www.star-bits.com 


From aerubin at ucla.edu  Wed Sep  9 14:00:52 2009
From: aerubin at ucla.edu (Alan Rubin)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:00:52 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
References: <DIIE.0000003000003FFB@paulinet.de>
Message-ID: <2D2EB8668C354528AD5A21BBAB98F575@SINOITE>

Of course this abstract was superceded by the paper:
Dixon, Bogard, Garrison and Rubin (2004) 39Ar-40Ar evidence for early impact 
events on the LL parent body. GCA 68, 3779-3790.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:47 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies


> Hello Dave, Alan, and List,
>
> Here is a paper that may be of interest with regard to LL chondrite parent 
> bodies:
>
> Dixon E.T., Bogard D.D. and Garrison D.H. (2002) 40Ar-39Ar Chronology
> of LL Chondrites (Lunar and Planetary Science XXXIII, 1114.pdf).
>
> They even discuss *three* models:
>
> 1. The onion-shell model
> 2. The rubble-pile model
> 3. The re-assembly model
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bernd
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From dave at fallingrocks.com  Wed Sep  9 14:15:20 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 14:15:20 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
In-Reply-To: <DIIE.0000003000003FFB@paulinet.de>
References: <DIIE.0000003000003FFB@paulinet.de>
Message-ID: <983DD8A2B3BF4EF39F8243FF64FF3D82@meteorroom>

Bernd, Alan, and List,
Thank you both for the diplomatic and informative responses.  While we're on
the subject, might one of you (or anyone else) expand on, say, the L/LL6
classification designation?  Holbrook was recently moved from an L6 to such
a classification, and I have a few others in my collection which are not
breccias (and presumably are entirely from one parent body and not two) but
yet have this classification assigned to them...which, "by definition,"
would imply connection with both the L and LL parent bodies, presumably
anyway.
Thanks, and all best,
Dave
www.fallingrocks.com

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:47 PM
To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies

Hello Dave, Alan, and List,

Here is a paper that may be of interest with regard to LL chondrite parent
bodies:

Dixon E.T., Bogard D.D. and Garrison D.H. (2002) 40Ar-39Ar Chronology of LL
Chondrites (Lunar and Planetary Science XXXIII, 1114.pdf).

They even discuss *three* models:

1. The onion-shell model
2. The rubble-pile model
3. The re-assembly model


Best wishes,

Bernd



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From aerubin at ucla.edu  Wed Sep  9 14:37:43 2009
From: aerubin at ucla.edu (Alan Rubin)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 11:37:43 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
References: <DIIE.0000003000003FFB@paulinet.de>
	<983DD8A2B3BF4EF39F8243FF64FF3D82@meteorroom>
Message-ID: <DEE9EE95CC2B4E38BB0ABDCA21125120@SINOITE>

John Wasson and I classified some meteorites as L/LL because we were 
uncertain of their proper classification.  Typical for these meteories, some 
properties indicate L, some indicate LL, and some could be truly 
intermediate between the established ranges.  This may mean that they are 
anomalous L chondrites, anomalous LL chondrites or, possibly, from a 
different parent body entirely that is intermediate in its properties.  Of 
course, some could be L, some could be LL and some could be intermediate. 
One way to decide would be to accumulate a lot of data on these guys and see 
if they have a cosmic-ray age peak that matches one of the main ones for L 
or LL or if it is unique.  This remains to be done.
Alan


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Gheesling" <dave at fallingrocks.com>
To: <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>; <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies


> Bernd, Alan, and List,
> Thank you both for the diplomatic and informative responses.  While we're 
> on
> the subject, might one of you (or anyone else) expand on, say, the L/LL6
> classification designation?  Holbrook was recently moved from an L6 to 
> such
> a classification, and I have a few others in my collection which are not
> breccias (and presumably are entirely from one parent body and not two) 
> but
> yet have this classification assigned to them...which, "by definition,"
> would imply connection with both the L and LL parent bodies, presumably
> anyway.
> Thanks, and all best,
> Dave
> www.fallingrocks.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
> bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
> Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:47 PM
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
>
> Hello Dave, Alan, and List,
>
> Here is a paper that may be of interest with regard to LL chondrite parent
> bodies:
>
> Dixon E.T., Bogard D.D. and Garrison D.H. (2002) 40Ar-39Ar Chronology of 
> LL
> Chondrites (Lunar and Planetary Science XXXIII, 1114.pdf).
>
> They even discuss *three* models:
>
> 1. The onion-shell model
> 2. The rubble-pile model
> 3. The re-assembly model
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bernd
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Wed Sep  9 14:47:03 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:47:03 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
In-Reply-To: <983DD8A2B3BF4EF39F8243FF64FF3D82@meteorroom>
References: <DIIE.0000003000003FFB@paulinet.de>
	<983DD8A2B3BF4EF39F8243FF64FF3D82@meteorroom>
Message-ID: <4AA7F827.4010409@usgs.gov>

Backing up and extending what Alan said, in current usage, a slash means 
one of two things: 1) there are properties of this meteorite that are 
intermediate or transitional between the two classes, or 2) The 
classifier could not decide which group it was due to some kind of 
limitation in methodology or samples.  In the case of Holbrook, it is 
the first meaning.  A variety of properties have been measured that put 
Holbrook near the L/LL boundary, including O isotopes and metal composition.

So what does that mean?  Nobody knows.  Either the L and LL asteroids 
had overlapping properties, in which case we don't know which was 
originally home to Holbrook, or there are other asteroids with 
intermediate properties that could be the parent of Holbrook.

The L and LL groups are not particularly well resolved from each other 
in many properties, although it is certain they are not all from one 
asteroid. I am confident that quite a number of classified L chondrites 
are from the LL body and vice versa, and not just limited to the ones 
that are called L/LL. 

Jeff

Dave Gheesling wrote:
> Bernd, Alan, and List,
> Thank you both for the diplomatic and informative responses.  While we're on
> the subject, might one of you (or anyone else) expand on, say, the L/LL6
> classification designation?  Holbrook was recently moved from an L6 to such
> a classification, and I have a few others in my collection which are not
> breccias (and presumably are entirely from one parent body and not two) but
> yet have this classification assigned to them...which, "by definition,"
> would imply connection with both the L and LL parent bodies, presumably
> anyway.
> Thanks, and all best,
> Dave
> www.fallingrocks.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
> bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
> Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 12:47 PM
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
>
> Hello Dave, Alan, and List,
>
> Here is a paper that may be of interest with regard to LL chondrite parent
> bodies:
>
> Dixon E.T., Bogard D.D. and Garrison D.H. (2002) 40Ar-39Ar Chronology of LL
> Chondrites (Lunar and Planetary Science XXXIII, 1114.pdf).
>
> They even discuss *three* models:
>
> 1. The onion-shell model
> 2. The rubble-pile model
> 3. The re-assembly model
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bernd
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Wed Sep  9 15:03:24 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 09 Sep 2009 19:03:24 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000002F00003FFF@paulinet.de>

Hello All,

I'm really glad that Jeff G. responded because I didn't know whether or not I should
mention his thoughts of about 10 years ago (!) when I asked him about hyphens and
dashes and the confusion they cause! I was inquiring about DaG 140, then classified
as an H3.9-6.

Mon, 07 Sep 1998, Jeff wrote (excerpt):

1) The hyphen implies a continuous range, and also implies that there
is no dominant lithology in the breccia. Yet, DaG 140 could be:

a) a type 3 chondrite with a single equilibrated clast found;
b) a type 6 chondrite with a single type 3 clast found;
c) a mixture of types 3, 4, 5, and 6 material;
d) a light-dark breccia with mostly comminuted matrix and only a few clasts, including type 3 and 6 ones.

So, right now we have a literature polluted with this and other nomenclatures
(like using a "/" instead of a "-" for the same thing), ... 

Slashes (e.g., L5/6) indicate transitional classes, hyphens (e.g., H5-6) indicate breccias, ...

Best wishes,

Bernd




From star-bits at tx.rr.com  Wed Sep  9 13:05:44 2009
From: star-bits at tx.rr.com (star-bits at tx.rr.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 13:05:44 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad eBay auctions closing shortly
In-Reply-To: <bd8.3e4688c2.37d935d9@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20090909170544.EF9IG.304566.root@cdptpa-web25-z01>

Greetings all

   I have a number of auctions closing shortly including

39 gram mundrabilla slice with troilite
100 gram NWA silicated iron complete slice
18.3 gram springwater pallasite from ASU (ninninger) trade.
1.03 gram DAG 400 lunar slice
0.49 gram Vigarano
31 gram Mulga North
11.89 gram oriented sikhote-alin
and others see them all at

<http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=katy2kary>
--
Eric Olson
610 W. Moore Rd
Tucson AZ 85755

http://www.star-bits.com



From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Wed Sep  9 15:26:04 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:26:04 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
In-Reply-To: <DIIE.0000002F00003FFF@paulinet.de>
References: <DIIE.0000002F00003FFF@paulinet.de>
Message-ID: <4AA8014C.9030009@usgs.gov>

Those 1998 remarks still hold true, except for one thing... we've mostly 
weeded out the classifications that used a slash for breccias.  There 
are still some in the MetBull database, probably, but mostly they're 
fixed.  Breccias are still a complete mess and nothing has changed.

Jeff

bernd.pauli at paulinet.de wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I'm really glad that Jeff G. responded because I didn't know whether or not I should
> mention his thoughts of about 10 years ago (!) when I asked him about hyphens and
> dashes and the confusion they cause! I was inquiring about DaG 140, then classified
> as an H3.9-6.
>
> Mon, 07 Sep 1998, Jeff wrote (excerpt):
>
> 1) The hyphen implies a continuous range, and also implies that there
> is no dominant lithology in the breccia. Yet, DaG 140 could be:
>
> a) a type 3 chondrite with a single equilibrated clast found;
> b) a type 6 chondrite with a single type 3 clast found;
> c) a mixture of types 3, 4, 5, and 6 material;
> d) a light-dark breccia with mostly comminuted matrix and only a few clasts, including type 3 and 6 ones.
>
> So, right now we have a literature polluted with this and other nomenclatures
> (like using a "/" instead of a "-" for the same thing), ... 
>
> Slashes (e.g., L5/6) indicate transitional classes, hyphens (e.g., H5-6) indicate breccias, ...
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bernd
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From daistiho at hotmail.com  Wed Sep  9 16:22:48 2009
From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 20:22:48 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
In-Reply-To: <DIIE.0000002F00003FFF@paulinet.de>
References: <DIIE.0000002F00003FFF@paulinet.de>
Message-ID: <SNT120-W49D00DBC3D3950D6BC6E98CAE90@phx.gbl>


Oog.  I agree with Bernd; classification is currently a mess.  We discussed this a couple of years ago, but it seems any clarifications are very slow to work their way into the literature.  Has the NomCom issued any official bulletins on this?
 
Best!
Tracy latimer

----------------------------------------
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 19:03:24 +0000
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies
>
> Hello All,
>
> I'm really glad that Jeff G. responded because I didn't know whether or not I should
> mention his thoughts of about 10 years ago (!) when I asked him about hyphens and
> dashes and the confusion they cause! I was inquiring about DaG 140, then classified
> as an H3.9-6.
>
> Mon, 07 Sep 1998, Jeff wrote (excerpt):
>
> 1) The hyphen implies a continuous range, and also implies that there
> is no dominant lithology in the breccia. Yet, DaG 140 could be:
>
> a) a type 3 chondrite with a single equilibrated clast found;
> b) a type 6 chondrite with a single type 3 clast found;
> c) a mixture of types 3, 4, 5, and 6 material;
> d) a light-dark breccia with mostly comminuted matrix and only a few clasts, including type 3 and 6 ones.
>
> So, right now we have a literature polluted with this and other nomenclatures
> (like using a "/" instead of a "-" for the same thing), ...
>
> Slashes (e.g., L5/6) indicate transitional classes, hyphens (e.g., H5-6) indicate breccias, ...
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bernd
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery

From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Wed Sep  9 16:22:08 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 09 Sep 2009 20:22:08 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies: Clarification
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000002E00004002@paulinet.de>

Tracy writes:

"Oog. I agree with Bernd; classification is currently a mess."

Sorry, I forgot the inverted commas => " ... "

Those were Jeff's remarks / comments!

Bernd



From grf2 at comcast.net  Wed Sep  9 17:51:54 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 17:51:54 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Google New's boo boo
Message-ID: <DFF62865C6524A1C90028A97CB47A30A@ASUS>

On Monday  9/7 at about noon EDT Google News published a story originating 
from Bangladesh in the "Onion".
The satire had NO note to make one aware of its lack of authenticity.
It was published as FACT
Subsequently only the satirical version was available an hour or so later.
The content dealt with Neil Armstrong's so called "conversion" to the 
debunkers of the Lunar Landing.
I've tried since then [three X's]  beginning immediately after the article 
was brought to my attention by Dawn, my wife to email this to the list but 
forgot to format in plain text so the emails have failed to reach the list.
The articles was filled with details of a news conference where Neil tossed 
his Lunar rocks into the trash to the total amazement of the news people 
claiming that he had been duped by NASA and had been living a lie.
I'm surprised that no one else commented on it
Jerry Flaherty 



From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Sep  9 21:05:19 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 20:05:19 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Google New's boo boo
In-Reply-To: <DFF62865C6524A1C90028A97CB47A30A@ASUS>
References: <DFF62865C6524A1C90028A97CB47A30A@ASUS>
Message-ID: <f5kga55b8719vaognuohkdei0i4mldbint@4ax.com>

Funny.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/1836


From grf2 at comcast.net  Wed Sep  9 21:07:03 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 21:07:03 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Google New's boo boo
References: <DFF62865C6524A1C90028A97CB47A30A@ASUS>
	<f5kga55b8719vaognuohkdei0i4mldbint@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <D5EFB1FF60824288B09123E5FF23AF77@ASUS>

Glad some one read this post!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Darren Garrison" <cynapse at charter.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 9:05 PM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Google New's boo boo

> Funny.
> 
> http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/tech-mainmenu-30/environment/1836
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From pshugar at clearwire.net  Wed Sep  9 23:54:40 2009
From: pshugar at clearwire.net (Pete Shugar)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 22:54:40 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] What are the odds? or a search for Amarilo's first
	meteorite
Message-ID: <EFDB3484B6964019862A49E1AB91FB1B@laptop>

While walking to my bus (I monitor the urchins--
opps--make that kids) on their ride home.
As I walked to the bus this one dark stone
looked "different", so I picked it up and promptly
forgot about it.
When I got home, I emptied my pockets and saw
the stone. I grabbed my standard magnet from a hard drive
(I always try to use the same magnet so the results will
be meaningful as a comparison).
It didn't snap to it but nevertheless it was attracted to the 
magnet. The stone is black and has many places that 
form points of light sparkles as I turn it in my hand.
It is very hard as it took about 5 minutes of good hard filling 
to get even a small window opened up.
The window showed metal so the next step is the nickel test 
tomorrow. (I hope my supplies are still good after Just sitting
on a shelf sealed in an air tight container).
Any comments on whether  they might stay good?
Pete


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 10 01:22:07 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 22:22:07 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Cosmic Butterfly
Message-ID: <21513067.1252560128144.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Three photos from the recently up-graded Hubble. Exposures using British e2v Technologies HD digital film.   

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2629817/Hubbles-best-picture-yet.html


From info at meteorites.com.au  Thu Sep 10 04:32:22 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:32:22 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies: Clarification
In-Reply-To: <DIIE.0000002E00004002@paulinet.de>
References: <DIIE.0000002E00004002@paulinet.de>
Message-ID: <AEF09E313BEF43EEBCED996A4420CAEA@JeffPC>

And there are also quite a few with L(LL) for example. I always thought this 
was the classifier saying they were not totally sure for some reason but 
their 'best guess' was the first class outside of the brackets. Is this 
similar to L/LL?

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 6:22 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies: Clarification


> Tracy writes:
>
> "Oog. I agree with Bernd; classification is currently a mess."
>
> Sorry, I forgot the inverted commas => " ... "
>
> Those were Jeff's remarks / comments!
>
> Bernd
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Thu Sep 10 07:29:27 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:29:27 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies: Clarification
In-Reply-To: <AEF09E313BEF43EEBCED996A4420CAEA@JeffPC>
References: <DIIE.0000002E00004002@paulinet.de>
	<AEF09E313BEF43EEBCED996A4420CAEA@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <4AA8E317.9030509@usgs.gov>

Yes, it's the same idea.  Usually, the L(LL) notation is used for highly 
unequilibrated (petrologic type type 3.0-3.4)  ordinary chondrites.  
I've been studying these things for decades and I still don't know of 
any way to distinguish a low type L from LL chondrite using an optical 
microscope, SEM, or electron microprobe.  Even O isotopes don't always 
tell you.  You have to do bulk chemistry, which is rarely done anymore 
on OCs, and certainly not in the initial classification. 

Take, for example, one that I've worked on: NWA 1756.  It is classified 
as LL3.10.  In my opinion it could just as easily be an L3.10, as nobody 
(to my knowledge) has done the chemistry to provide a definitive answer. 
To me, such meteorites are all uncertain.  If I was the original 
classifier of this meteorite and I thought the properties looked more 
LL-like, I'd have called it LL(L).  If I was totally unsure, I'd have 
called it L/LL. The 3.10 pet-type, on the other hand, is independent of 
chemical group.

This brings up one last issue.  If NWA 1756 could be called L/LL because 
a classifier cannot tell which it is, but Bjurb?le is called L/LL 
because it is truly intermediate, then this is two completely different 
uses of the same symbol.  John Wasson and I want to propose a new 
nomenclature: Bjurb?le should be changed to L^LL4, where the caret 
indicates known intermediate properties.  One day we'll get around to 
proposing it.

Jeff G.

Jeff Kuyken wrote:
> And there are also quite a few with L(LL) for example. I always 
> thought this was the classifier saying they were not totally sure for 
> some reason but their 'best guess' was the first class outside of the 
> brackets. Is this similar to L/LL?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
> To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 6:22 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Chondritic parent bodies: Clarification
>
>
>> Tracy writes:
>>
>> "Oog. I agree with Bernd; classification is currently a mess."
>>
>> Sorry, I forgot the inverted commas => " ... "
>>
>> Those were Jeff's remarks / comments!
>>
>> Bernd
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Thu Sep 10 11:16:11 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:16:11 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] They're Leprechauns!
Message-ID: <1D447CD4E6044B0ABF50C26271ABD0AB@ET>

Oh wait, leprechauns aren't little green men, they're little men with beards 
that always wear green! Close enough.

Just once, I'd like to read one of these articles that doesn't include the 
grains of sand analogy.

Phil Whitmer

http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20090910/News01/909100311&template=247art

September 10. 2009 6:59AM
Notre Dame panelists ponder: Is there life out there?
Experts talk about possibility, why it fascinates people.

By MARLYS WEAVER
Tribune Staff Writer

SOUTH BEND - There's a good chance there are more living things in this 
universe than just us. The trouble is finding them.

A panel of four specialists met for a discussion on extraterrestrials 
Tuesday at the University of Notre Dame, mostly addressing the possibility 
of extraterrestrials and humans' fascination with life "out there."

Seth Shostak, host of "Are We Alone?" on National Public Radio and senior 
astronomer at the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence Institute (SETI), 
opened the discussion. Michael Crowe, philosophy of science professor; 
Kenneth Filchak from the department of biological sciences; and Philip J. 
Sakimoto, former NASA scientist, completed the panel. Matthew Dowd, liberal 
science professor, moderated.
Shostak explained that the major reasons many scientists believe there is 
life on other planets is largely because there is "simply a lot of habitat, 
a lot of real estate."

He explained that maybe a half to two-thirds of all stars have planets.

"And planets are like kittens; they come in litters," he said, estimating 
there are as many planets as grains of sand on the Earth.

"But this is the only one with life?" he asked the crowd. "This is 
fundamentally why we think there might be life out there."

Life on Earth "could be an enormous accident," he said, but suggested that 
instead intelligent life is an evolutionary survival tactic and happens on 
many planets.

Sakimoto reminded the audience that though extraterrestrial life might be 
present in the universe, we have yet to find it.

"We would all like to believe that it could happen," he said, "but we don't 
know yet."

"See something once, that's an anomaly," he said, sharing a science motto. 
"See something twice, that's a theory."

Life on Mars?

Sakimoto was part of the science crew observing the findings of the first 
Mars Viking Mission, the first successful landing on Mars in 1976. He shared 
of the entire crew's enthusiasm and excitement, and the "depression" that 
lingered after nearly finding life there. An experiment with Martian dirt 
produced oxygen, but stopped a few days later.

After that disappointing day, the crew realized the oxygen production was 
because of other factors, not life on Mars.

Sakimoto thinks people need to continue looking for life, but is less 
certain that it exists.

"Is there one example of life anywhere other than here?" he asked. "And can 
life arise even when conditions are right?"

Without answers to one of those two questions, Sakimoto said he was 
skeptical about life on other planets.

Humans' fascination

The discussion also touched on why humans are so preoccupied with finding 
other life.

"Why do we want life out there?" Crowe asked the audience, pointing out that 
it's especially strange to want to find extraterrestrials when literature 
and film often portray them as destroying our world and society.

He hypothesized that people would like to make contact with intelligent 
extraterrestrials in the hopes that "they could help us not screw it up," 
and teach humans everything we don't understand.

Shostak said in an interview after the discussion that he became enamored 
with the idea of other worlds when he was 8 years old.

"The idea that there were other worlds out there - it was a very romantic 
idea," he said. "How many people (in their job) get to address a question 
that everyone wants to know the answer to and have (wanted to know) for 
thousands of years?"

In response to a question from the audience, Shostak explained, however, 
that becoming aware of intelligent life elsewhere, such as hearing an alien 
radio transmission, would be little more than a "big news story" for the 
general population.

It's "one of those interesting things to know, like that the universe didn't 
always exist," he said, but not much more.

Sakimoto disagreed, saying that it "colors everything" and changes a 
person's view of the world to think of it as "teeming with life" or not.

Shostak also gave his opinion on the idea that extraterrestrials are among 
us on Earth today.

Shostak said that "there is very little evidence for it," though especially 
when it comes to the cases of Roswell and Area 51, there is plenty of 
evidence for other activities there.

In an interview later, Shostak said he receives phone calls and e-mails from 
people with UFO and alien sightings all the time.

"A message just the other day was from a woman who said she was an alien," 
he said.

Shostak doesn't mind taking these calls and believes that these people have 
really seen something they believe is otherworldly, but has yet to hear or 
see something that would make him agree.

"People feel empowered to 'know' something the experts won't address," he 
said during the discussion.

Near the end of the discussion, Sakimoto asked Shostak for a clear answer.

"What odds would you bet that there is life out there?" Sakimoto asked.

"Quite a bit," Shostak answered, "less on intelligent life. And you?"

"Fifty-fifty," he responded. "I just don't know."

After the discussion, Shostak signed copies of his new book, "Confessions of 
an Alien Hunter: A Scientist's Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence."

You can listen to Seth Shostak on "Are We Alone?" on WVPE-FM (88.1) at 7 
a.m. Sundays.

Staff writer Marlys Weaver
mweaver at sbtinfo.com





From mikewren at gilanet.com  Thu Sep 10 12:03:52 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:03:52 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: BONDOC- Need To Sell A Few Specimens-Please
	make offers.
Message-ID: <7865C02B-E5E9-4105-B5E2-F42F46A00B31@gilanet.com>

Hello,

I have a good amount of Bondoc at the moment and I would like to move  
a couple of pieces. So, I am open to good offers. I am going to sell  
just a few below my asking price, so now is the time to lay your offer  
down.

http://shop.ebay.com:80/meteorite-collector/m.html?_nkw=bondoc


That link should take you to all the Bondoc specimens I have listed. I  
would also consider trades too.

Also, Do not forget my fantastic auction run which is still a few days  
away from ending, but worth keeping track of....

http://shop.ebay.com:80/merchant/meteorite-collector_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ

Thanks and Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep 10 14:39:09 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:39:09 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] They're Leprechauns!
References: <1D447CD4E6044B0ABF50C26271ABD0AB@ET>
Message-ID: <77A315CCAEB84B9C8FED88B1AB2E7C66@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Phil, List,

You're forgetting the "Assumption of Mediocrity."
This is also referred to as the "strong" Cosmological
Principle, which is "The universe, observed from
every point, in every direction, and every time,
looks the same." The Strong CP developed in the
20th Century from the Weak CP of Copernicus,
which is that the Universe, observed from any
planet, looks the same.

We ARE Mediocre, say Copernicus (and Kepler
and Galileo and Newton, Bruno, Kant, Hubble,
Einstein, and...), just one more lousy star, nothing
special about us, not a preferred location in any
way. This was a revolutionary idea, virtually never
expressed before by humans. Historically, we've always
thought of ourselves as the Center and the Purpose
and the Most Magnificent Thing in the whole Universe!
(As well as being the sole focus and single-minded
obsession of the Divinity and/or Divinities).

The Strong CP is not merely a shift in attitude. It
produces (and predicts) significant scientific results,
at least in cosmology in the historical sense and
astronomy in the observational sense. If you want
a nice quick set of flash cards, go to:
http://www.slideshare.net/millerco/a1-24-the-big-bang

The "Life" Question is an obvious application of the
Strong CP -- "The universe, observed from this point, in
all the directions we can see, and in every time frame,
looks and IS the same, including life." For 560 years,
every major discovery about the Universe has been
predicted by the Strong CP or ended up confirming
the Strong CP.

The reason it's called a "Principle" and not a Law, not
a Proof, in that it is an extreme generalization over a
very broad regime, a vast spread of data, the broadest
possible range of data -- ALL of it. So, there are stars
younger and older than ours, bigger and smaller, hotter
and colder, with some planets, with no planets, with a
gob of planets, one asteroid zone, five asteroid zones,
and the same for Jupiters and all the other types of
planets we can conceive, and some we can't. But it's a
VERY finite array of possibilities, encompassing a VERY
small number on the scale of the Universe. And we are
talking about the ENTIRE Universe here.

For the Universe, as a WHOLE, the Strong CP IS strong.
You can bet against it, on the grounds of "No Proof" but,
if so, I know a lot of casino operators who want you as a
client. Betting against the Strong CP is betting Against
The House.

Just keep playing; I'll go get you another free drink...


Sterling K. Webb
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 10:16 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] They're Leprechauns!


> Oh wait, leprechauns aren't little green men, they're little men with 
> beards that always wear green! Close enough.
>
> Just once, I'd like to read one of these articles that doesn't include 
> the grains of sand analogy.
>
> Phil Whitmer
>
> http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20090910/News01/909100311&template=247art
>
> September 10. 2009 6:59AM
> Notre Dame panelists ponder: Is there life out there?
> Experts talk about possibility, why it fascinates people.
>
> By MARLYS WEAVER
> Tribune Staff Writer
>
> SOUTH BEND - There's a good chance there are more living things in 
> this universe than just us. The trouble is finding them.
>
> A panel of four specialists met for a discussion on extraterrestrials 
> Tuesday at the University of Notre Dame, mostly addressing the 
> possibility of extraterrestrials and humans' fascination with life 
> "out there."
>
> Seth Shostak, host of "Are We Alone?" on National Public Radio and 
> senior astronomer at the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence 
> Institute (SETI), opened the discussion. Michael Crowe, philosophy of 
> science professor; Kenneth Filchak from the department of biological 
> sciences; and Philip J. Sakimoto, former NASA scientist, completed the 
> panel. Matthew Dowd, liberal science professor, moderated.
> Shostak explained that the major reasons many scientists believe there 
> is life on other planets is largely because there is "simply a lot of 
> habitat, a lot of real estate."
>
> He explained that maybe a half to two-thirds of all stars have 
> planets.
>
> "And planets are like kittens; they come in litters," he said, 
> estimating there are as many planets as grains of sand on the Earth.
>
> "But this is the only one with life?" he asked the crowd. "This is 
> fundamentally why we think there might be life out there."
>
> Life on Earth "could be an enormous accident," he said, but suggested 
> that instead intelligent life is an evolutionary survival tactic and 
> happens on many planets.
>
> Sakimoto reminded the audience that though extraterrestrial life might 
> be present in the universe, we have yet to find it.
>
> "We would all like to believe that it could happen," he said, "but we 
> don't know yet."
>
> "See something once, that's an anomaly," he said, sharing a science 
> motto. "See something twice, that's a theory."
>
> Life on Mars?
>
> Sakimoto was part of the science crew observing the findings of the 
> first Mars Viking Mission, the first successful landing on Mars in 
> 1976. He shared of the entire crew's enthusiasm and excitement, and 
> the "depression" that lingered after nearly finding life there. An 
> experiment with Martian dirt produced oxygen, but stopped a few days 
> later.
>
> After that disappointing day, the crew realized the oxygen production 
> was because of other factors, not life on Mars.
>
> Sakimoto thinks people need to continue looking for life, but is less 
> certain that it exists.
>
> "Is there one example of life anywhere other than here?" he asked. 
> "And can life arise even when conditions are right?"
>
> Without answers to one of those two questions, Sakimoto said he was 
> skeptical about life on other planets.
>
> Humans' fascination
>
> The discussion also touched on why humans are so preoccupied with 
> finding other life.
>
> "Why do we want life out there?" Crowe asked the audience, pointing 
> out that it's especially strange to want to find extraterrestrials 
> when literature and film often portray them as destroying our world 
> and society.
>
> He hypothesized that people would like to make contact with 
> intelligent extraterrestrials in the hopes that "they could help us 
> not screw it up," and teach humans everything we don't understand.
>
> Shostak said in an interview after the discussion that he became 
> enamored with the idea of other worlds when he was 8 years old.
>
> "The idea that there were other worlds out there - it was a very 
> romantic idea," he said. "How many people (in their job) get to 
> address a question that everyone wants to know the answer to and have 
> (wanted to know) for thousands of years?"
>
> In response to a question from the audience, Shostak explained, 
> however, that becoming aware of intelligent life elsewhere, such as 
> hearing an alien radio transmission, would be little more than a "big 
> news story" for the general population.
>
> It's "one of those interesting things to know, like that the universe 
> didn't always exist," he said, but not much more.
>
> Sakimoto disagreed, saying that it "colors everything" and changes a 
> person's view of the world to think of it as "teeming with life" or 
> not.
>
> Shostak also gave his opinion on the idea that extraterrestrials are 
> among us on Earth today.
>
> Shostak said that "there is very little evidence for it," though 
> especially when it comes to the cases of Roswell and Area 51, there is 
> plenty of evidence for other activities there.
>
> In an interview later, Shostak said he receives phone calls and 
> e-mails from people with UFO and alien sightings all the time.
>
> "A message just the other day was from a woman who said she was an 
> alien," he said.
>
> Shostak doesn't mind taking these calls and believes that these people 
> have really seen something they believe is otherworldly, but has yet 
> to hear or see something that would make him agree.
>
> "People feel empowered to 'know' something the experts won't address," 
> he said during the discussion.
>
> Near the end of the discussion, Sakimoto asked Shostak for a clear 
> answer.
>
> "What odds would you bet that there is life out there?" Sakimoto 
> asked.
>
> "Quite a bit," Shostak answered, "less on intelligent life. And you?"
>
> "Fifty-fifty," he responded. "I just don't know."
>
> After the discussion, Shostak signed copies of his new book, 
> "Confessions of an Alien Hunter: A Scientist's Search for 
> Extraterrestrial Intelligence."
>
> You can listen to Seth Shostak on "Are We Alone?" on WVPE-FM (88.1) at 
> 7 a.m. Sundays.
>
> Staff writer Marlys Weaver
> mweaver at sbtinfo.com
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Thu Sep 10 15:55:31 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:31 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] What If Copernicus Was Wrong?
Message-ID: <87089717A5464648A4BF96994FEC7FCB@ET>



Dark Energy v. The Void: What if

Copernicus was Wrong?

Living in a Void: Testing the Copernican Principle with Distant Supernovae

Timothy Clifton,? Pedro G. Ferreira, and Kate Land

Oxford Astrophysics, Physics, DWB, Keble Road, Oxford, OX1 3RH, UK

A fundamental presupposition of modern cosmology is the Copernican 
Principle; that we are not

in a central, or otherwise special region of the Universe. Studies of Type 
Ia supernovae, together

with the Copernican Principle, have led to the inference that the Universe 
is accelerating in its

expansion. The usual explanation for this is that there must exist a 'Dark 
Energy', to drive the

acceleration. Alternatively, it could be the case that the Copernican 
Principle is invalid, and that

the data has been interpreted within an inappropriate theoretical 
frame-work. If we were to live in

a special place in the Universe, near the centre of a void where the local 
matter density is low, then

the supernovae observations could be accounted for without the addition of 
dark energy. We show

that the local redshift dependence of the luminosity distance can be used as 
a clear discriminant

between these two paradigms. Future surveys of Type Ia supernovae that focus 
on a redshift range

of  0.1 ? 0.4 will be ideally suited to test this hypothesis, and hence to 
observationally determine

the validity of the Copernican Principle on new scales, as well as probing 
the degree to which dark

energy must be considered a necessary ingredient in the Universe.

The concordance model of the Universe combines two

fundamental assumptions. The first is that space-time

is dynamical, obeying Einstein's Equations. The second

is the 'Cosmological Principle', that the Universe is then

homogeneous and isotropic on large scales - a generalisation

of the Copernican Principle that "the Earth is

not in a central, specially favored position" [1]. As a result

of these two assumptions we can use the Freidmann-

Robertson-Walker (FRW) metric to describe the geometry

of the Universe in terms of a single function, the scale

factor a(t), which obeys

H2 =

8G

3

 ?

k

a2 (1)

where H ? ? a/a is the Hubble rate,  is the energy density,

k is the (constant) curvature of space, and overdots

denote time derivatives. The scale factor can then be

determined by observing the 'luminosity distance' of astrophysical

objects. At small z ? a0/a(t)?1 this is given

by

H0DL ? cz +

1

2

(1 ? q0)cz2, (2)

where q ? ??aa/ ?a2 is the deceleration rate, and subscript

0 denotes the value of a quantity today. Recent measurements

of (z, DL) using high redshift, Type Ia Supernovae

(SNe) have indicated that q0 < 0, i.e. the Universe

is accelerating in its expansion [2, 3]. Accelerating expansion

is possible in an FRW universe if a fraction of

 is in the form of a smoothly distributed and gravitationally

repulsive exotic substance, often referred to as

Dark Energy [4]. The existence of such an unusual substance

is unexpected, and requires previously unimagined

amounts of fine-tuning in order to reproduce the observations.

Nonetheless, dark energy has been incorporated

into the standard cosmological model, known as CDM.

Electronic address: tclifton at astro.ox.ac.uk

An alternative to admitting the existence of dark energy

is to review the postulates that necessitate its introduction.

In particular, it has been proposed that the SNe

observations could be accounted for without dark energy

if our local environment were emptier than the surrounding

Universe, i.e. if we were to live in a void [5, 6, 7].

This explanation for the apparent acceleration does not

invoke any exotic substances, extra dimensions, or modifications

to gravity - but it does require a rejection of the

Copernican Principle. We would be required to live near

the centre of a spherically symmetric under-density, on

a scale of the same order of magnitude as the observable

Universe. Such a situation would have profound consequences

for the interpretation of all cosmological observations,

and would ultimately mean that we could not

infer the properties of the Universe at large from what

we observe locally.

Within the standard inflationary cosmological model

the probability of large, deep voids occurring is extremely

small. However, it can be argued that the centre of a

large underdensity is the most likely place for observers

to find themselves [8]. In this case, finding ourselves in

the centre of a giant void would violate the Copernican

principle, that we are not in a special place, but it may

not violate the Principle ofMediocrity, that we are a 'typical'

set of observers. Regardless of what we consider the

a priori likelihood of such structures to be, we find that

it should be possible for observers at their centre to be

able to observationally distinguish themselves from their

counterparts in FRW universes. Living in a void leads to

a distinctive observational signature that, while broadly

similar to CDM, differs qualitatively in its details. This

gives us a simple test of a fundamental principle of modern

cosmology, as well as allowing us to subject a possible

explanation for the observed acceleration to experimental

scrutiny.

Some efforts have gone into identifying the observational

signatures that could result from living in a void.

The cosmic microwave background (CMB) supplies us

with the tight constraint that we must be within 15 Mpc

of the center of the void [9]. There have also been some

attempts at calculating predictions for CMB anisotropies

and large scale-structure [10, 11, 12], as well as the kinematic

Sunyaev-Zeldovich effect [13].

General Relativity allows a simple description of timedependent,

spherical symmetric universes: the Lema^itre-

Tolman-Bondi (LTB) models [14, 15, 16], whose lineelement

is

ds2 = ?dt2 +

a2

2(t, r)dr2

1 ? k(r)r2 + a2

1(t, r)r2d2, (3)

where a2 = (ra1)', and primes denote r derivatives . The

old FRW scale factor, a, has now been replaced by two

new scale factors, a1 and a2, describing expansion in the

directions tangential and normal to the surfaces of spherical

symmetry. These new scale factors are functions of

time, t, and distance, r, from the centre of symmetry,

and obey a generalization of the usual Friedman equation,

(1), such that

 ? a1

a12

=

8G

3

~ ?

k(r)

a2

1

. (4)

Here ~ = m(r)/a3

1, and is related to the physical energy

density by  = ~+~'ra1/3a2. The two free functions, k(r)

and m(r), correspond to the curvature of space, and the

distribution of gravitating mass in that space. We choose

initial conditions such that the curvature is asymptotically

flat with a negative perturbation near the origin,

and so that the gravitational mass is evenly distributed.

As the space-time evolves the energy density in the vicinity

of the curvature perturbation is then dispersed, and

a void forms. Observations of distant astro-physical objects

in this space-time obey a distance-redshift relation

DL = (1 + z)2rEa1(tE, rE) (5)

where

1 + z = expZ rE

0

( ?a1r)'

?1 ? kr2

dr, (6)

and subscript E denotes the value of a quantity at the

moment the observed photon was emitted. This expression

is modified from equation (2), allowing for the possibility

of apparent acceleration without dark energy.

We find that the form of the void's curvature profile

is of great importance for the observations made by astronomers

at its centre. In Figure 1 we plot some simple

curvature profiles, together with the corresponding distance

moduli as functions of redshift (distance modulus,


dm, is defined as the observable magnitude of an astrophysical

object, minus the magnitude such an object

would have at the same redshift in an empty, homogeneous

Milne universe). It is clear from Figure 1 that

for the void models there is a strong correlation between

k(r) and 
dm; at low redshifts 
dm(z) traces the shape

of k(r). Hence, for a generic, smooth void 
dm starts

off with near zero slope, where it is locally very similar

to a Milne universe, it then increases at intermediate z,

and later drops off like an Einstein-de Sitter universe.

For CDM, we have 
dm ? ?5

2 q0z at low z, i.e. a

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0807/0807.1443v2.pdf



Phil Whitmer



From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Sep 10 16:59:05 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:59:05 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Speaking of space pee
In-Reply-To: <87089717A5464648A4BF96994FEC7FCB@ET>
References: <87089717A5464648A4BF96994FEC7FCB@ET>
Message-ID: <84qia5ppkqrper3899rckvc2dn0od4sjp6@4ax.com>

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/09/10/constellation-urion/


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 10 16:07:33 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:07:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] I Witnessed large fireball last night in NC
In-Reply-To: <84qia5ppkqrper3899rckvc2dn0od4sjp6@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <111099.39228.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Last night around 11:30 pm or so I saw a pretty nice sized fireball outside in my front yard. 
It traveled in a NNW direction. 
Pretty nice sized, it lit up the sky for about 3-5 seconds with a nice flare up in the middle of that time.
Color was a greenish/blue to white. 
No doubt was a meteorite, I saw it right in front of my eyes. Three others witnessed it in my area that I know of.
I live in North Carolina.
Anyone else see or hear about this? 

Greg C.




      


From GeoZay at aol.com  Thu Sep 10 16:14:10 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:14:10 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] I Witnessed large fireball last night in NC
Message-ID: <d46.439a92bb.37dab812@aol.com>

>>No doubt was a  meteorite...<<

I don't have much doubt that it was a meteor, but  have a little more doubt 
that you saw a meteorite. :O)
GeoZay  



From thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr  Thu Sep 10 14:53:38 2009
From: thomasmeteorites at wanadoo.fr (Philippe Thomas)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:53:38 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - METEORITICA offers and eBay auctions
Message-ID: <17449267.39167.1252608818252.JavaMail.www@wwinf1h22>

Hello Everyone,

Some news:
Our new exceptional offers are running:
http://www.meteoritica.com/offers_sep_09.htm

We have also some eBay auctions ending shortly in our 2 stores:
http://stores.ebay.com/Meteoritica
http://stores.shop.ebay.fr/meteoritica-france


Thanks for looking and best wishes,
Philippe & Lea
www.meteoritica.com



From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 10 16:17:24 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:17:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] I Witnessed large fireball last night in NC
In-Reply-To: <d46.439a92bb.37dab812@aol.com>
Message-ID: <570288.30352.qm@web46416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

LOL, ok you got me there. No doubt it was a meteor is what I guess I should have said.

Greg C.

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, GeoZay at aol.com <GeoZay at aol.com> wrote:

> From: GeoZay at aol.com <GeoZay at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] I Witnessed large fireball last night in NC
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 4:14 PM
> >>No doubt was a?
> meteorite...<<
> 
> I don't have much doubt that it was a meteor, but?
> have a little more doubt 
> that you saw a meteorite. :O)
> GeoZay? 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From GeoZay at aol.com  Thu Sep 10 16:21:47 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:21:47 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] I Witnessed large fireball last night in NC
Message-ID: <c54.56bbdc18.37dab9db@aol.com>


>>LOL, ok you got me there. No doubt  it was a meteor is what I guess I 
should have said<<

Don't  worry...you will have plenty of chances to correct me about 
something on this  list. When it comes to meteorites, I'm essentially a newbie. :O)
GeoZay  



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Thu Sep 10 16:46:53 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:46:53 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] They're Leprechauns
Message-ID: <501A7CE8BEDB435D819DD2473597D3DC@ET>

Sterling:
You're kidding right?
The Earth and it's inhabitants are mediocre? That pantheon of really smart 
guys you mentioned are mediocre?  Elvis, the most perfectly evolved human 
being and the reason for the existence of the universe is merely mediocre? 
So you're telling me that rock n roll, modern art & literature, science, 
Thai food,  57 Chevys,  Hollywood movies, are not magnificent? Just a 
byproduct of the hallowed Building Blocks. Nothing special about matter 
appearing out of nothing, organizing itself into living cells, then evolving 
intelligence, then technology, then the Gibson hollow body electric guitar. 
Nah that kind of stuff happens all the time. We just don't know about it 
with our puny telescopes and crummy spectrometers. We're like those rotifers 
that could speak without a larynx, think without a cerebral cortex, but yet 
could not build a simple telescope, and thus lived in their own Local Bubble 
of ignorance. Maybe it was the lack of opposable thumbs?

It doesn't take much to see that the Earth is an incredibly special place. 
For one thing it harbors life. Let's take just one of the hundreds of 
exacting parameters for life and apply it to our Local Neighborhood. 
Magnetospheres for example. Examine the magnetospheres of all the other 
planets in the Solar System.  They're all mediocre and screwed up! Earth's 
magnetosphere on the other hand is perfect for life. It's magnificent!

I know that Clifton, Ferreira and Land are considered mavericky,  but they 
do have equations to back up their assertions. And we all know the 
magico-religious importance of formulae. What if some of our most basic 
assumptions are wrong?

We don't know that things are like this all over.  We don't have a clue 
really.

I know this may sound all creationy and all, but Fred Hoyle was no fool.

The laws of probability are working against us. We are a magnificent 
impossibility!


The Evolution of Life, Probability Considerations

and Common Sense-Part Three

By Dr. John Ankerberg and Dr. John Weldon

The Odds of a Complex Molecule

Noted astronomer Fred Hoyle uses the Rubik cube to illustrate the odds of 
getting a

single molecule, in this case a biopolymer. Biopolymers are biological 
polymers, i.e., large

molecules such as nucleic acids or proteins. In the fascinating illustration 
below, he calls

the idea that chance could originate a biopolymer "nonsense of a high order":

At all events, anyone with even a nodding acquaintance with the Rubik cube 
will

concede the near-impossibility of a solution being obtained by a blind 
person moving

the cubic faces at random. Now imagine 1050 blind persons each with a 
scrambled

Rubik cube, and try to conceive of the chance of them all simultaneously 
arriving at

the solved form. You then have the chance of arriving by random shuffling at 
just one

of the many biopolymers on which life depends. The notion that not only 
biopolymers

but the operating programme of a living cell could be arrived at by chance 
in a

primordial organic soup here on the Earth is evidently nonsense of a high 
order.13

DeNouy provides another illustration for arriving at a single molecule of 
high dissymmetry

through chance action and normal thermic agitation. He assumes 500 trillion 
shakings

per second plus a liquid material volume equal to the size of the earth. For 
one molecule it

would require "10243 billions of years." Even if this molecule did somehow 
arise by chance, it

is still only one single molecule. Hundreds of millions are needed, 
requiring compound

probability calculations for each successive molecule. His logical 
conclusion is that "it is

totally impossible to account scientifically for all phenomena pertaining to 
life."14

Even 40 years ago, scientist Harold F. Blum, writing in Time's Arrow and 
Evolution,

wrote that, "The spontaneous formation of a polypeptide of the size of the 
smallest known

proteins seems beyond all probability."15

Noted creation scientists Walter L. Bradley and Charles Thaxton, authors of 
The Mystery

of Life's Origin: Reassessing Current Theories, point out that the 
probability of assembling

amino acid building blocks into a functional protein is approximately one 
chance in 4.9 X

10191.16 "Such improbabilities have led essentially all scientists who work 
in the field to reject

random, accidental assembly or fortuitous good luck as an explanation for 
how life began."

17 Now, if a figure as "small" as 5 chances in 10191 is referenced by such a 
statement,

then what are we to make of the kinds of probabilities below that are 
infinitely less? The

mind simply boggles at the remarkable faith of the materialist.

According to Coppedge, the probability of evolving a single protein molecule 
over 5

billion years is estimated at 1 chance in 10161. This even allows some 14 
concessions to

help it along which would not actually be present during evolution.18 Again, 
this is no

chance.

Cells and Bacteria

Consider that the smallest theoretical cell is made up of 239 proteins. 
Further, at least

124 different types of proteins are needed for the cell to become a living 
thing. But the

simplest known self-reproducing organisms is the H39 strain of PPLO 
(mycoplasma) con



From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep 10 16:55:29 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:55:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] I Witnessed large fireball last night in NC
References: <570288.30352.qm@web46416.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0C2412675343477F87CAF91BF9D87D04@ATARIENGINE2>

The "big flare-up" is a bad sign for meteorites
coming from an object. Observed falls tend to
have a long steady burn that suddenly goes
dark at the end.

This would mean that the object has been slowed
enough for ablation to stop, and that would usually
be necessary for survival of any part of an object.

The short bright re-entry with flare-up is a sign
of coming in without a wing and prayer...


Sterling K. Webb
-----------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Catterton" <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] I Witnessed large fireball last night in 
NC


LOL, ok you got me there. No doubt it was a meteor is what I guess I 
should have said.

Greg C.

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, GeoZay at aol.com <GeoZay at aol.com> wrote:

> From: GeoZay at aol.com <GeoZay at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] I Witnessed large fireball last night in 
> NC
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 4:14 PM
> >>No doubt was a
> meteorite...<<
>
> I don't have much doubt that it was a meteor, but
> have a little more doubt
> that you saw a meteorite. :O)
> GeoZay
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Sep 10 17:05:35 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:05:35 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Almost A Comet
Message-ID: <4AA96A1F.8060008@meteoritesusa.com>

Well, sort of...

http://transientsky.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/bright-comet-seen-over-canada-and-the-northern-us/

http://www.spaceweather.com/

It's the ISS... Cool photos!

ISS: 
http://spaceweather.com/submissions/large_image_popup.php?image_name=Clair-Perry-_MG_4652xSW_1252547311.jpg

Enjoy...

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep 10 17:37:50 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:37:50 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] They're Leprechauns
References: <501A7CE8BEDB435D819DD2473597D3DC@ET>
Message-ID: <C0CB254C107C4467B9DFCE966F2724AD@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi Phil, and List,

    When the Aliens do land, I'll do all
I can to promote as the chief Press Officer
for the new Earth Chamber of (Interstellar)
Commerce! Tell'em how wonderful we are.

Until then, I'm cutting you off. No more
free drinks.


Sterling K. Webb
----------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 3:46 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] They're Leprechauns


> Sterling:
> You're kidding right?
> The Earth and it's inhabitants are mediocre? That pantheon of really 
> smart guys you mentioned are mediocre?  Elvis, the most perfectly 
> evolved human being and the reason for the existence of the universe 
> is merely mediocre? So you're telling me that rock n roll, modern art 
> & literature, science, Thai food,  57 Chevys,  Hollywood movies, are 
> not magnificent? Just a byproduct of the hallowed Building Blocks. 
> Nothing special about matter appearing out of nothing, organizing 
> itself into living cells, then evolving intelligence, then technology, 
> then the Gibson hollow body electric guitar. Nah that kind of stuff 
> happens all the time. We just don't know about it with our puny 
> telescopes and crummy spectrometers. We're like those rotifers that 
> could speak without a larynx, think without a cerebral cortex, but yet 
> could not build a simple telescope, and thus lived in their own Local 
> Bubble of ignorance. Maybe it was the lack of opposable thumbs?
>
> It doesn't take much to see that the Earth is an incredibly special 
> place. For one thing it harbors life. Let's take just one of the 
> hundreds of exacting parameters for life and apply it to our Local 
> Neighborhood. Magnetospheres for example. Examine the magnetospheres 
> of all the other planets in the Solar System.  They're all mediocre 
> and screwed up! Earth's magnetosphere on the other hand is perfect for 
> life. It's magnificent!
>
> I know that Clifton, Ferreira and Land are considered mavericky,  but 
> they do have equations to back up their assertions. And we all know 
> the magico-religious importance of formulae. What if some of our most 
> basic assumptions are wrong?
>
> We don't know that things are like this all over.  We don't have a 
> clue really.
>
> I know this may sound all creationy and all, but Fred Hoyle was no 
> fool.
>
> The laws of probability are working against us. We are a magnificent 
> impossibility!
>
>
> The Evolution of Life, Probability Considerations
>
> and Common Sense-Part Three
>
> By Dr. John Ankerberg and Dr. John Weldon
>
> The Odds of a Complex Molecule
>
> Noted astronomer Fred Hoyle uses the Rubik cube to illustrate the odds 
> of getting a
>
> single molecule, in this case a biopolymer. Biopolymers are biological 
> polymers, i.e., large
>
> molecules such as nucleic acids or proteins. In the fascinating 
> illustration below, he calls
>
> the idea that chance could originate a biopolymer "nonsense of a high 
> order":
>
> At all events, anyone with even a nodding acquaintance with the Rubik 
> cube will
>
> concede the near-impossibility of a solution being obtained by a blind 
> person moving
>
> the cubic faces at random. Now imagine 1050 blind persons each with a 
> scrambled
>
> Rubik cube, and try to conceive of the chance of them all 
> simultaneously arriving at
>
> the solved form. You then have the chance of arriving by random 
> shuffling at just one
>
> of the many biopolymers on which life depends. The notion that not 
> only biopolymers
>
> but the operating programme of a living cell could be arrived at by 
> chance in a
>
> primordial organic soup here on the Earth is evidently nonsense of a 
> high order.13
>
> DeNouy provides another illustration for arriving at a single molecule 
> of high dissymmetry
>
> through chance action and normal thermic agitation. He assumes 500 
> trillion shakings
>
> per second plus a liquid material volume equal to the size of the 
> earth. For one molecule it
>
> would require "10243 billions of years." Even if this molecule did 
> somehow arise by chance, it
>
> is still only one single molecule. Hundreds of millions are needed, 
> requiring compound
>
> probability calculations for each successive molecule. His logical 
> conclusion is that "it is
>
> totally impossible to account scientifically for all phenomena 
> pertaining to life."14
>
> Even 40 years ago, scientist Harold F. Blum, writing in Time's Arrow 
> and Evolution,
>
> wrote that, "The spontaneous formation of a polypeptide of the size of 
> the smallest known
>
> proteins seems beyond all probability."15
>
> Noted creation scientists Walter L. Bradley and Charles Thaxton, 
> authors of The Mystery
>
> of Life's Origin: Reassessing Current Theories, point out that the 
> probability of assembling
>
> amino acid building blocks into a functional protein is approximately 
> one chance in 4.9 X
>
> 10191.16 "Such improbabilities have led essentially all scientists who 
> work in the field to reject
>
> random, accidental assembly or fortuitous good luck as an explanation 
> for how life began."
>
> 17 Now, if a figure as "small" as 5 chances in 10191 is referenced by 
> such a statement,
>
> then what are we to make of the kinds of probabilities below that are 
> infinitely less? The
>
> mind simply boggles at the remarkable faith of the materialist.
>
> According to Coppedge, the probability of evolving a single protein 
> molecule over 5
>
> billion years is estimated at 1 chance in 10161. This even allows some 
> 14 concessions to
>
> help it along which would not actually be present during evolution.18 
> Again, this is no
>
> chance.
>
> Cells and Bacteria
>
> Consider that the smallest theoretical cell is made up of 239 
> proteins. Further, at least
>
> 124 different types of proteins are needed for the cell to become a 
> living thing. But the
>
> simplest known self-reproducing organisms is the H39 strain of PPLO 
> (mycoplasma) con
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep 10 17:48:19 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:48:19 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] They're Leprechauns CORRECTION
References: <501A7CE8BEDB435D819DD2473597D3DC@ET>
	<C0CB254C107C4467B9DFCE966F2724AD@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <517191F4776F453EBA67E66E87370D84@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi Phil, and List,
 
   When the Aliens do land, I'll do all I can
to promote YOU as the chief Press Officer
for the new Earth Chamber of (Interstellar)
Commerce! Tell'em how wonderful we are.
 
Until then, I'm cutting you off. No more
free drinks.
 
 
Sterling K. Webb
----------------------------------------------------------------



From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep 10 18:22:48 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:22:48 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] How Organisms Survived Asteroid Impacts
Message-ID: <CD9681937D334A46AB41C044B0993875@ATARIENGINE2>

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090910-am-impact-mixotrophs.html

Life in the Dark: How Organisms Survived Asteroid Impacts 
By Jeremy Hsu -- Astrobiology Magazine
10 September 2009

A dinosaur-killing asteroid may have wiped out 
much of life on Earth 65 million years ago, but 
now scientists have discovered how smaller 
organisms might have survived in the darkness 
following such a catastrophic impact.

Survival may have depended upon jack-of-all-trades 
organisms called mixotrophs that can consume 
organic matter in the absence of sunlight. That 
would have proved crucial during the long months 
of dust and debris blotting out the sun, when plenty 
of dead or dying organic matter filled the Earth's 
oceans and lakes.

"Mixotrophs are very good at stabilizing situations 
by using whatever resources are there, and can 
often provide what resources there aren't," said 
Harriet Jones, a biologist at the University of 
East Anglia in the UK. "They're very good at 
coping in extreme environments, and enabling 
other organisms to live."

Jones and her colleagues tested the limits of 
mixotrophs by subjecting them to six months 
of low light or complete darkness. The mixotrophs 
not only thrived, but also surprised researchers 
by helping sunlight-dependent organisms also 
survive pitch black conditions.

Scientists have long debated the overall impact 
of the K-T extinction that may have heralded the 
end of the dinosaurs, but most researchers agree 
that such an event would have thrown up enough 
dust and debris to darken Earth's skies for about 
six months. A lack of sunlight would have killed 
off a majority of plants, eliminating the food supply 
for animals higher up the food chain.

Many scientists assumed that even smaller organisms 
would struggle just to stay alive during months of 
almost complete darkness. Some previous studies 
even looked at how some organisms such as 
mixotrophs can survive low light and low food 
conditions. But no one had tried to test how well 
mixotrophs would survive the catastrophic 
environment following something such as the 
K-T event, Jones said.

"The literature was always saying in that biological 
production would cease in a post-catastrophic 
environment," Jones noted. "We felt that because 
of what mixotrophy algae could do, that wasn't 
always the case."

Jones joined forces with Charles Cockell, a 
microbiologist at the Open University based in 
the UK who specializes in catastrophic environments, 
as well as other researchers. They tested both 
freshwater and ocean mixotrophs under conditions 
ranging from low light to complete darkness for 
six months, and added food sources during 
short-term experiments to simulate decaying 
organic matter.

However, Jones and her colleagues also wanted 
to see how mixotrophs fared when living together 
with phototrophs, or light-dependent organisms. 
They tested mixotrophs and phototrophs separately 
and together under the different light conditions.

Turns out that the mixotrophs survived all the 
experiments, and some even grew under the low 
light conditions. Their ability to consume other 
organisms or organic matter helped them rebound 
quickly after low light returned, perhaps similar 
to the clouds of dust and debris finally beginning 
to clear.

But the real shock came from how well light-dependent 
organisms did when living with the mixotrophs. No 
photosynthesis could take place under the complete 
darkness, but the phototrophs mostly managed to 
survive based on nutrients cycled by the active 
mixotrophs.

"We were extremely surprised at how well phototrophs 
did during six months darkness, when they can't 
eat at all," Jones said. Such findings may cause 
researchers to rethink how well certain life forms 
survived the catastrophic impacts that dot Earth's 
geological record.

Furthermore, the mixotroph activity allowed the 
phototroph populations to rebound quickly back 
to normal within a month. And in the end, both 
mixotrophs and phototrophs tended to fare better 
when living together.

"So long as mixotrophs are cycling nutrients, 
[phototroph] algae can take off quickly and get 
the life cycle going," Jones explained.

Only one low light condition saw phototrophs 
fail to survive while living with mixotrophs. The 
phototrophs may have used too much energy 
trying to do photosynthesis in the weak light, 
or perhaps the hungry mixotrophs simply fed 
on their fellow organisms.

"You can only do so much in a flask, and obviously 
the mix of species would be much greater in a 
natural environment," Jones pointed out.

Still, the overall results suggest how mixotrophs 
provide a cushion against catastrophe for certain 
ecosystems, and may even prevent huge population 
crashes. The research is further detailed in the 
July/August issue of the journal Astrobiology.

Jones and her colleagues plan to conduct more 
studies with greater mixes of species, in an 
environment that would more closely resemble 
the natural world. They also want to shorten 
experiments to three months rather than six.

That looks all well and good for the smaller organisms. 
But humans, who would have a much harder time 
feeding themselves if the skies went dark, may want 
to plan on how to prevent such catastrophic asteroid 
impacts in the future



From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 10 18:31:11 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:31:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] TKW of all Lunar meteorites? Martians?
Message-ID: <390798.52732.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi to everyone, a few questions...

Does anyone know the TKW of all lunar meteorites?
The Metbase lists only 38 approved lunar meteorites, is this still correct?
Anyone know a good resource for statistics on lunar meteorites?

Is this info available for Martians also?

Thanks!

Greg C

PS L/LL discussion has been really great!


      


From fujmon at mac.com  Thu Sep 10 18:36:22 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:36:22 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] TKW of all Lunar meteorites? Martians?
In-Reply-To: <390798.52732.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <390798.52732.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E9B556DA-1A4E-4583-9A05-2B2C6D401F95@mac.com>

http://www.meteoris.de/luna/list.html

On Sep 10, 2009, at 12:31 PM, Greg Catterton wrote:

> Hi to everyone, a few questions...
>
> Does anyone know the TKW of all lunar meteorites?
> The Metbase lists only 38 approved lunar meteorites, is this still  
> correct?
> Anyone know a good resource for statistics on lunar meteorites?
>
> Is this info available for Martians also?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Greg C
>
> PS L/LL discussion has been really great!
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 10 18:44:46 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 15:44:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] TKW of all Lunar meteorites? Martians?
In-Reply-To: <E9B556DA-1A4E-4583-9A05-2B2C6D401F95@mac.com>
Message-ID: <811208.62051.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Thanks!

Why is there such a variation in amount of them? From 38 to 65 is a lot.

Greg C.

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com> wrote:

> From: Gary Fujihara <fujmon at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] TKW of all Lunar meteorites? Martians?
> To: "Greg Catterton" <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, September 10, 2009, 6:36 PM
> http://www.meteoris.de/luna/list.html
> 
> On Sep 10, 2009, at 12:31 PM, Greg Catterton wrote:
> 
> > Hi to everyone, a few questions...
> >
> > Does anyone know the TKW of all lunar meteorites?
> > The Metbase lists only 38 approved lunar meteorites,
> is this still? 
> > correct?
> > Anyone know a good resource for statistics on lunar
> meteorites?
> >
> > Is this info available for Martians also?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Greg C
> >
> > PS L/LL discussion has been really great!
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> Gary Fujihara
> AstroDay Institute
> 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
> (808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
> http://astroday.net
> 
> 


      


From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Thu Sep 10 21:06:03 2009
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:06:03 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] They're Leprechauns!
Message-ID: <D750AD29FA6C48B98804DD4C6766151B@whitmerjbqtim1>

Sterling, Listerians, Friends, Countrymen, Pleiadians:

The problem I have with the cosmological principle is that it's a tenet in a 
belief system (theoretical astrophysics) that I don't necessarily adhere to. 
E.g., I don't believe in multiple alternative copies of the Universe, Heaven 
or Hell,  but I do believe in Bizzaro World (Htrae).  (Go figure!)  Like all 
the ancient creation myths, a strong CP can't be proved or disproved at this 
time.  You'd have the same problem proving or disproving the Upanishads. 
Materialism can't explain everything and neither can mythic stories.

Einstein wasn't infallible, otherwise he'd be known as Pope Albert. 
(Cosmological Constant, OOps, nevermind.) When St. Albert made a mistake, he 
changed his tune when presented with the proper infra red evidence.  In that 
spirit, I'll change my mind in an instant when presented with some evidence 
of life off Earth.

You really seem enamored of the Cosmological Principle (all kneel),  as if 
it's Holy Writ. It's really nothing more than a working hypothesis, hardly a 
proof of anything. Certainly not a proof of multicellular intelligent life 
out there.

You are right about the mediocrity of Galileo, Newton, et al., their 
theories were worked out by the Persians and Arabs centuries earlier.  Like 
Newton discovered gravity!  What's next, Columbus discovered America?

When it comes to systems of belief, you can choose the right wing of 
materialism, the left wing of religion or take the middle of the road and 
keep an open mind and see what develops. I'm sure the Hubble will get a 
visible light shot of a  Pleiadian spacecraft in the next few years before 
it conks out.

Thanks and a tip of the tinfoil hat,

Phil Whitmer




 Hi, Phil, List,

You're forgetting the "Assumption of Mediocrity."
This is also referred to as the "strong" Cosmological
Principle, which is "The universe, observed from
every point, in every direction, and every time,
looks the same." The Strong CP developed in the
20th Century from the Weak CP of Copernicus,
which is that the Universe, observed from any
planet, looks the same.

We ARE Mediocre, say Copernicus (and Kepler
and Galileo and Newton, Bruno, Kant, Hubble,
Einstein, and...), just one more lousy star, nothing
special about us, not a preferred location in any
way. This was a revolutionary idea, virtually never
expressed before by humans. Historically, we've always
thought of ourselves as the Center and the Purpose
and the Most Magnificent Thing in the whole Universe!
(As well as being the sole focus and single-minded
obsession of the Divinity and/or Divinities).

The Strong CP is not merely a shift in attitude. It
produces (and predicts) significant scientific results,
at least in cosmology in the historical sense and
astronomy in the observational sense. If you want
a nice quick set of flash cards, go to:
http://www.slideshare.net/millerco/a1-24-the-big-bang

The "Life" Question is an obvious application of the
Strong CP -- "The universe, observed from this point, in
all the directions we can see, and in every time frame,
looks and IS the same, including life." For 560 years,
every major discovery about the Universe has been
predicted by the Strong CP or ended up confirming
the Strong CP.

The reason it's called a "Principle" and not a Law, not
a Proof, in that it is an extreme generalization over a
very broad regime, a vast spread of data, the broadest
possible range of data -- ALL of it. So, there are stars
younger and older than ours, bigger and smaller, hotter
and colder, with some planets, with no planets, with a
gob of planets, one asteroid zone, five asteroid zones,
and the same for Jupiters and all the other types of
planets we can conceive, and some we can't. But it's a
VERY finite array of possibilities, encompassing a VERY
small number on the scale of the Universe. And we are
talking about the ENTIRE Universe here.

For the Universe, as a WHOLE, the Strong CP IS strong.
You can bet against it, on the grounds of "No Proof" but,
if so, I know a lot of casino operators who want you as a
client. Betting against the Strong CP is betting Against
The House.

Just keep playing; I'll go get you another free drink...


Sterling K. Webb



From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 10 21:47:08 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:47:08 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] test-delete
Message-ID: <SNT102-W26FB9CEE871DC812CD368AA2E70@phx.gbl>


test
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online.
http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009

From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Sep 10 23:38:52 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:38:52 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] They're Leprechauns!
In-Reply-To: <1D447CD4E6044B0ABF50C26271ABD0AB@ET>
References: <1D447CD4E6044B0ABF50C26271ABD0AB@ET>
Message-ID: <hpgja5la8urje5fb9t1970926ff0io37li@4ax.com>

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:16:11 -0400, you wrote:

>Just once, I'd like to read one of these articles that doesn't include the 
>grains of sand analogy.

At least they are using something similar to sound reasoning skills.

Here's an analogy for your "thought" process:

You have two books-- you read the first chapter of the first book, note that
nobody has been mysteriously murdered yet.  You toss away the first book.  You
read the title second book-- the word "murder" is nowhere it the title.  You
toss away the second book.  You decide that, therefore, there is no rational
reason to believe that any book anywhere might be a murder mystery.

The biological sciences are very, very young.  And very, very little of Mars has
been explored.  And yet you make the claim that "scientists are too dumb to
understand abiogenisis" as if the current state of science is the end of all
human knowledge when in fact it is barely the beginning.  And that the few
tinker-toys we have sent to Mars so far (as cool as they may be) preclude that
Mars ever did support life (or Venus for that instance.)  You then take those
very very, very early sets of data and reach the conclusion that there is no
other life in the universe.

You may think that is rational thinking.  But it is a very long way from
rational thinking.

And THEN you make a post where you think that maybe the Chinese visited the moon
thousands of years ago?

And you praise ancient philosophers who spent their lives speculating on the
nature of reality, while calling the people on the list who want to speculate on
the nature of reality "mental masturbators", and call the conversations
"stupid"?

And you continue to construct straw men to attack for everyone who makes a
misguided attempt at reasoning with you.


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 11 00:17:00 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:17:00 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Vigarano piece needed.
Message-ID: <20560381.1252642620405.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

I need an end piece, or thicker (2-4 mm) slice, of Vigarano in a cup, or Riker mount, with tag. No frags please. Have a $100.00 plus shipping. Please contact me off list.

Guido


From cynapse at charter.net  Fri Sep 11 01:26:04 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 00:26:04 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Doing a lap around the island
In-Reply-To: <390798.52732.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <390798.52732.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <hpnja5hsuidmu72p8pvbt159qvt2553q2h@4ax.com>

http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Opportunity_Update_Circling_The_Meteorite_999.html

Opportunity Update: Circling The Meteorite

by Staff Writers
Pasadena CA (SPX) Sep 11, 2009
Opportunity has commenced circumnavigation and full-circle imaging of the large
meteorite
"Block Island". On Sol 1997 (Sept. 5, 2009), the rover moved 5.7 meters (18.7
feet) to the second of six stand-off positions around the meteorite (the first
position being the initial rover location).

At each location Opportunity collects a set of images with the panoramic camera
(Pancam).

On Sol 1999 (Sept. 7, 2009), Opportunity drove about 4 meters (13 feet) to the
third position. The plan is to complete the circumnavigation of the meteorite
before departing this location.

On Sol 1995 (Sept. 3, 2009), a solar-array dust-cleaning event occurred.

As of Sol 2000 (Sept. 8, 2009), Opportunity's solar-array energy production is
527 watt-hours, with an atmospheric opacity (tau) of 0.475 and a dust factor
improved to 0.6145. The rover's total odometry is 17,238.97 meters (10.71
miles).


From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Fri Sep 11 01:24:53 2009
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:24:53 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] They're Leprechauns!
Message-ID: <11AF82A4E1724A4197840FD6226B0BBF@whitmerjbqtim1>

Darren & late  night Listoidians:

There exists today, a prevelant belief in outer space aliens living in 
advanced technological civilizations. A majority of Americans inexplicably 
believes that they have visited us.  This belief is prevelant amongst the 
vast majority of scientists.  A NASA scientist who walked on the moon 
believes they are living and working amongst us in all walks of life.

Belief in imaginary beings is an interesting psychological phenomenon. 
Through the ages there has been much interest in elves, fairies, trolls, 
dwarves, ghosts, succubi, incubi, mermaids,  what have you. I don't think 
though that at any time in history has there ever been anything like the 
overwhelming cultural acceptance of the  unsubstantiated belief in outer 
space aliens. The only thing that even comes close is the belief in angels 
in the 1200's, and maybe witches in the 1600's.  Completely hypothetical 
mental constructions,  and yet they are believed by vast majorities. 
Questioning this belief is like arguing the Immaculate Conception with a 
Catholic. Neither side will ever win the argument.

I can understand that it's comforting to believe in advanced civilizations 
in outer space. Humans are pack animals, living in bee hives.  It's sad, 
lonely and forlorn to feel we are all alone.  Maybe one day these beings 
will appear out of the sky and save us from ourselves, like Jesus or 
Mohammed, or maybe they'll just kill and eat us.  I hear humans taste like 
pork.

And yes, the ancient Chinese conceptualized going to the moon, it was right 
around the time they made mankind's first record of a solar eclipse.

Why do I feel like a heathen being proselytized?

Phil Whitmer



On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:16:11 -0400, you wrote:


>Just once, I'd like to read one of these articles that doesn't include the

>grains of sand analogy.


At least they are using something similar to sound reasoning skills.

Here's an analogy for your "thought" process:

You have two books-- you read the first chapter of the first book, note that
nobody has been mysteriously murdered yet. You toss away the first book. You
read the title second book-- the word "murder" is nowhere it the title. You
toss away the second book. You decide that, therefore, there is no rational
reason to believe that any book anywhere might be a murder mystery.

The biological sciences are very, very young. And very, very little of Mars 
has
been explored. And yet you make the claim that "scientists are too dumb to
understand abiogenisis" as if the current state of science is the end of all
human knowledge when in fact it is barely the beginning. And that the few
tinker-toys we have sent to Mars so far (as cool as they may be) preclude 
that
Mars ever did support life (or Venus for that instance.) You then take those
very very, very early sets of data and reach the conclusion that there is no
other life in the universe.

You may think that is rational thinking. But it is a very long way from
rational thinking.

And THEN you make a post where you think that maybe the Chinese visited the 
moon
thousands of years ago?

And you praise ancient philosophers who spent their lives speculating on the
nature of reality, while calling the people on the list who want to 
speculate on
the nature of reality "mental masturbators", and call the conversations
"stupid"?

And you continue to construct straw men to attack for everyone who makes a
misguided attempt at reasoning with you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------







From geeg48 at msn.com  Fri Sep 11 01:57:55 2009
From: geeg48 at msn.com (GREG LINDH)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:57:55 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] They're Leprechauns!
In-Reply-To: <11AF82A4E1724A4197840FD6226B0BBF@whitmerjbqtim1>
References: <11AF82A4E1724A4197840FD6226B0BBF@whitmerjbqtim1>
Message-ID: <BLU125-W25682B3FB39740650CFCC3C9E70@phx.gbl>


 
    Phil,
 
  Personally, I like your posts.  Keep them coming.
 
 
  Greg Lindh
 
 
 

> From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:24:53 -0400
> Subject: [meteorite-list] They're Leprechauns!
> 
> Darren & late night Listoidians:
> 
> There exists today, a prevelant belief in outer space aliens living in 
> advanced technological civilizations. A majority of Americans inexplicably 
> believes that they have visited us. This belief is prevelant amongst the 
> vast majority of scientists. A NASA scientist who walked on the moon 
> believes they are living and working amongst us in all walks of life.
> 
> Belief in imaginary beings is an interesting psychological phenomenon. 
> Through the ages there has been much interest in elves, fairies, trolls, 
> dwarves, ghosts, succubi, incubi, mermaids, what have you. I don't think 
> though that at any time in history has there ever been anything like the 
> overwhelming cultural acceptance of the unsubstantiated belief in outer 
> space aliens. The only thing that even comes close is the belief in angels 
> in the 1200's, and maybe witches in the 1600's. Completely hypothetical 
> mental constructions, and yet they are believed by vast majorities. 
> Questioning this belief is like arguing the Immaculate Conception with a 
> Catholic. Neither side will ever win the argument.
> 
> I can understand that it's comforting to believe in advanced civilizations 
> in outer space. Humans are pack animals, living in bee hives. It's sad, 
> lonely and forlorn to feel we are all alone. Maybe one day these beings 
> will appear out of the sky and save us from ourselves, like Jesus or 
> Mohammed, or maybe they'll just kill and eat us. I hear humans taste like 
> pork.
> 
> And yes, the ancient Chinese conceptualized going to the moon, it was right 
> around the time they made mankind's first record of a solar eclipse.
> 
> Why do I feel like a heathen being proselytized?
> 
> Phil Whitmer
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:16:11 -0400, you wrote:
> 
> 
>>Just once, I'd like to read one of these articles that doesn't include the
> 
>>grains of sand analogy.
> 
> 
> At least they are using something similar to sound reasoning skills.
> 
> Here's an analogy for your "thought" process:
> 
> You have two books-- you read the first chapter of the first book, note that
> nobody has been mysteriously murdered yet. You toss away the first book. You
> read the title second book-- the word "murder" is nowhere it the title. You
> toss away the second book. You decide that, therefore, there is no rational
> reason to believe that any book anywhere might be a murder mystery.
> 
> The biological sciences are very, very young. And very, very little of Mars 
> has
> been explored. And yet you make the claim that "scientists are too dumb to
> understand abiogenisis" as if the current state of science is the end of all
> human knowledge when in fact it is barely the beginning. And that the few
> tinker-toys we have sent to Mars so far (as cool as they may be) preclude 
> that
> Mars ever did support life (or Venus for that instance.) You then take those
> very very, very early sets of data and reach the conclusion that there is no
> other life in the universe.
> 
> You may think that is rational thinking. But it is a very long way from
> rational thinking.
> 
> And THEN you make a post where you think that maybe the Chinese visited the 
> moon
> thousands of years ago?
> 
> And you praise ancient philosophers who spent their lives speculating on the
> nature of reality, while calling the people on the list who want to 
> speculate on
> the nature of reality "mental masturbators", and call the conversations
> "stupid"?
> 
> And you continue to construct straw men to attack for everyone who makes a
> misguided attempt at reasoning with you.
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From damoclid at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 04:15:00 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:15:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Steward Observatory Lecture Series
Message-ID: <998388.76556.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

For those in the Tucson area, Steward Observatory is starting it's 84th season of lecture series on Monday, September 14th.

Of interest to members of this list is the lecture being given on the 28th by Christopher Cokinos on his newly released book _The Fallen Sky: An Intimate History of Shooting Stars_.

http://uanews.org/node/27338


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


      


From bobadebt at ec.rr.com  Fri Sep 11 11:05:38 2009
From: bobadebt at ec.rr.com (David Deyarmin)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:05:38 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] WTB - Lots of Gibeon
Message-ID: <7A03A6F72D4B4521A676AB97A4079B9C@owner118c1707d>

The man that finishes a lot of my chondrite spheres is looking for 25 1" 
cubes of Gibeon.

For his project 1.125 " bars or slices would work the best.

If anyone has any large slabs available or any material that could be cut 
into roughs that could produce the 1" bars please email me at bobadebt at 
ec.rr.com

Thanks 



From cynapse at charter.net  Fri Sep 11 12:25:29 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:25:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] They're Leprechauns!
In-Reply-To: <11AF82A4E1724A4197840FD6226B0BBF@whitmerjbqtim1>
References: <11AF82A4E1724A4197840FD6226B0BBF@whitmerjbqtim1>
Message-ID: <v2uka5dk2p1jrp9lvsbek6dqdl85lee586@4ax.com>

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:24:53 -0400, you wrote:

>Why do I feel like a heathen being proselytized?

Because you are either an idiot or a liar, that's why.  It has been clearly and
explicitly pointed out to you more than once that I am not-- NOT arguing for
"advanced alien civilizations."  All I have ever been claiming is that I see no
reason to assume that abiogenesis is so nearly impossible as to have happened
only once.  I make no claim to the existance of "little green men."  I am
concerning myself in these threads only with the possibilty of a "little green
film" clinging to some alien rocks.  

This is what I mean by your constructing straw men-- every time I or anyone else
on the list make any comment about any life outside of Earth at all, you
construct a LIE that they are talking about advanced alien civilizations.  You,
Phil, are making up a LIES to respond to instead of actually responding to the
substance of my post, or anyone's posts.  You, Phil, are a LIAR.  And I'm not
wasting one more second on you.


From korotev at wustl.edu  Fri Sep 11 11:37:10 2009
From: korotev at wustl.edu (Randy Korotev)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:37:10 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] TKW of all Lunar meteorites? Martians?
In-Reply-To: <390798.52732.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <390798.52732.qm@web46407.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200909111536.n8BFauW04601@levee.wustl.edu>


>Does anyone know the TKW of all lunar meteorites?
>The Metbase lists only 38 approved lunar meteorites, is this still correct?

It lists 129, but each stone has a number.  65 is our best guess at 
the number of actual meteorites when pairings are taken into account 
(includes some that are not yet official).

http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites_list_alumina.htm
http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites_list_alpha.htm


>Anyone know a good resource for statistics on lunar meteorites?


See also the mass bar chart here:

http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/moon_meteorites.htm



>Is this info available for Martians also?

The most up-to-date info is here:

http://www.imca.cc/mars/martian-meteorites-list.htm


Randy Korotev
Saint Louis, MO
korotev at wustl.edu 




From mmurray at montrose.net  Fri Sep 11 13:04:43 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:04:43 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] searching for the correct terminology
Message-ID: <0763923F-B686-4379-864F-EF1B943B087E@montrose.net>

You will probably think I am a bit off the latch with this question  
but here goes anyway... In the world of meteorite terminology, is  
there a term or word which describes the loss of fusion crust (by  
forces of nature) from stony meteorites.  'Spalling' possibly?  The  
loss of crust, part or all, seems to be a rather common occurrence  
especially for some of the more friable stonys.  With the crust gone,  
the stone is 'denuded'?

Mike in CO


From moutinho at bol.com.br  Fri Sep 11 13:02:44 2009
From: moutinho at bol.com.br (=?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9_Moutinho?=)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:02:44 -0300
Subject: [meteorite-list] Looking for Avanhandava/Campos Sales/Putinga for a
	Brazilian museum
Message-ID: <4aaa82b4700ee_3a8e2929ea4171@winter11.tmail>

<br>


From cynapse at charter.net  Fri Sep 11 14:12:42 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:12:42 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] searching for the correct terminology
In-Reply-To: <0763923F-B686-4379-864F-EF1B943B087E@montrose.net>
References: <0763923F-B686-4379-864F-EF1B943B087E@montrose.net>
Message-ID: <9m4la5torsj40ertddp90lru76e6gvl7q4@4ax.com>

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:04:43 -0600, you wrote:

>You will probably think I am a bit off the latch with this question  
>but here goes anyway... In the world of meteorite terminology, is  
>there a term or word which describes the loss of fusion crust (by  
>forces of nature) from stony meteorites.  'Spalling' possibly?  The  

Wouldn't it simply be "weathering"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weathering

Spallation is an unrelated thing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spallation


From cynapse at charter.net  Fri Sep 11 14:16:38 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:16:38 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] searching for the correct terminology
In-Reply-To: <9m4la5torsj40ertddp90lru76e6gvl7q4@4ax.com>
References: <0763923F-B686-4379-864F-EF1B943B087E@montrose.net>
	<9m4la5torsj40ertddp90lru76e6gvl7q4@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <0u4la59p5ohf6dsn8d037tiggirl2doleg@4ax.com>

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:12:42 -0500, you wrote:

>Spallation is an unrelated thing:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spallation

Correction-- I see that there is a different definition of "spalling" that can
be related to weathering:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spalling


From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de  Fri Sep 11 13:22:00 2009
From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (Meteorite-Recon.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:22:00 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] searching for the correct terminology
Message-ID: <29358465.1669501252689720540.JavaMail.servlet@kundenserver>

It depends on the respective process that removed the crust. If for example abrasion through wind born sand is responsible, then the term is "corrasion". 

Svend

www.meteorite-recon.com

------------------------------

You will probably think I am a bit off the latch with this question  
but here goes anyway... In the world of meteorite terminology, is  
there a term or word which describes the loss of fusion crust (by  
forces of nature) from stony meteorites.  'Spalling' possibly?  The  
loss of crust, part or all, seems to be a rather common occurrence  
especially for some of the more friable stonys.  With the crust gone,  
the stone is 'denuded'?

Mike in CO
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



-- 
www.meteorite-recon.com


From paul at meteorite.com  Fri Sep 11 13:24:35 2009
From: paul at meteorite.com (Paul Harris)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:24:35 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-Times - September Issue Now Up
Message-ID: <4AAA87D3.5090106@meteorite.com>

Greetings Everyone,

The September issue of Meteorite-Times is now up.

Tom Phillips mentioned in a previous email to the list, he is stepping 
down from writing the Micro-Vision article.  We'd like to take this 
opportunity to thank Tom for all his time, effort, and for all the 
magnificent pictures he took for Micro-Visions.

John Kashuba is now writing the article and I'm sure most all of you are 
already familiar with the quality work John does..  This is really a 
win-win for all of us as now not only do we have John's great work, but 
now Tom will have the time to update his gallery more often. Tom's 
already working on something for next week. 

Thank you to all the other contributers too!

http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm

Enjoy,

Paul and Jim





From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Fri Sep 11 13:22:07 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 11 Sep 2009 17:22:07 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] searching for the correct terminology
Message-ID: <DIIE.000000AA00004011@paulinet.de>

Mike in CO writes:

"You will probably think I am a bit off the latch with this question  
but here goes anyway... In the world of meteorite terminology, is  
there a term or word which describes the loss of fusion crust (by  
forces of nature) from stony meteorites.  'Spalling' possibly?  The  
loss of crust, part or all, seems to be a rather common occurrence  
especially for some of the more friable stonys.  With the crust gone,  
the stone is 'denuded'?"

Hi Mike and List, here are some examples:

ALHA77294 (H5):

Polygonally fractured, dull, brownish black fusion crust, approximately 1 mm thick,
covers all surfaces of this meteorite (~13.5 x 9.0 x 6.0 cm), with the exception of the
edges, which appear to have been   s p a l l e d.

ALHA78040 (AEUC):

The crust has been removed from the edges by   s p a l l a t i o n   and has
been preferentially weathered away on the surfaces in small circular areas.

ALHA78132 (AEUC):

The crust has been   s p a l l e d   or chipped in some areas ...

ALHA79022 (L3.7-4):

The areas devoid of fusion crust appear to have been   s p a l l e d
off or preferentially plucked off because they occur along ridges.

Bagdad (IIIAB):

Most of the fusion crust has   s p a l l e d   off due to terrestrial corrosion (Buchwald)...


Best wishes,

Bernd



From korotev at wustl.edu  Fri Sep 11 13:43:30 2009
From: korotev at wustl.edu (Randy Korotev)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:43:30 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] searching for the correct terminology
In-Reply-To: <0763923F-B686-4379-864F-EF1B943B087E@montrose.net>
References: <0763923F-B686-4379-864F-EF1B943B087E@montrose.net>
Message-ID: <200909111743.n8BHhFW09941@levee.wustl.edu>

For meteorites exposed a long time in deserts, one of the processes 
is ablation or abrasion by the wind - sand-blasting.  Omanian lunars 
seldom have fusion crusts.  Look at the Dhofars 461 and 465 here:

http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/dhofar0026.htm

If you handed those rocks to a geologist, she'd say, on the basis of 
the 3-sided shapes, "those are ventifacts," not, "those are 
meteorites."  Omanian meteorites have been getting smaller with time!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventifact

Scientists who've studied the Dar al Gani field in Libya say that one 
of the reasons for the preservation is that the wind-blown sand is 
from carbonate rock (soft), not quartz (hard).  The meteorites in the 
Dhofar photos above appear to be sitting on carbonate desert 
pavements, but I have to conclude that there's a source of quartz 
sand somewhere.

Even in Antarctica, meteorite fusion crust is lost to wind ablation, 
even though there's little sand in the wind.  All meteorite 
collection places in Antarctica are places where the katabatic winds 
are blowing so hard that snow does not accumulate and the ice is 
being ablated by the wind at the rate of a few inches per year.



At 12:04 2009-09-11 Friday, you wrote:
>You will probably think I am a bit off the latch with this question
>but here goes anyway... In the world of meteorite terminology, is
>there a term or word which describes the loss of fusion crust (by
>forces of nature) from stony meteorites.  'Spalling' possibly?  The
>loss of crust, part or all, seems to be a rather common occurrence
>especially for some of the more friable stonys.  With the crust gone,
>the stone is 'denuded'?
>
>Mike in CO

Randy Korotev
Saint Louis, MO
korotev at wustl.edu 




From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Fri Sep 11 13:21:50 2009
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:21:50 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] searching for the correct terminology
References: <0763923F-B686-4379-864F-EF1B943B087E@montrose.net>
Message-ID: <669C926BCB9045EB93F40107A42345B2@bellatrix>

Spallation might be a specific way that the fusion crust could be removed 
(such as by tumbling in a stream), but it isn't very general. I'd use the 
same term that geologists use for any sort of surface modified by natural 
forces: weathering. If there's something unusual about the mechanism, you 
can always add more detail, such as "the fusion crust has been selectively 
chipped from its substrate by weathering processes".

For a meteorite that no longer has a fusion crust, I think the clearest 
description would be "shows no remaining fusion crust".

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael Murray" <mmurray at montrose.net>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 11:04 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] searching for the correct terminology


> You will probably think I am a bit off the latch with this question  but 
> here goes anyway... In the world of meteorite terminology, is  there a 
> term or word which describes the loss of fusion crust (by  forces of 
> nature) from stony meteorites.  'Spalling' possibly?  The  loss of crust, 
> part or all, seems to be a rather common occurrence  especially for some 
> of the more friable stonys.  With the crust gone,  the stone is 'denuded'?
>
> Mike in CO



From mexicodoug at aim.com  Fri Sep 11 14:14:40 2009
From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:14:40 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] searching for the correct terminology
In-Reply-To: <DIIE.000000AA00004011@paulinet.de>
References: <DIIE.000000AA00004011@paulinet.de>
Message-ID: <8CC0122DD169EA2-1668-BFDD@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Mike Darren, Svend, Bernd, List,

Great question and answers. Still seems a little strong of a term for a 
flaky Tatahouine, do you think?

What about a term encompassing the emotion of finding a completely 
ripped meteorite?

"Oh! Shucks!",
Doug
PS ... denuded matrix would sound perfect to me, or stripped meteorite 
....
(the universe is our oyster)


-----Original Message-----
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 12:22 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] searching for the correct terminology



Mike in CO writes:

"You will probably think I am a bit off the latch with this question
but here goes anyway... In the world of meteorite terminology, is
there a term or word which describes the loss of fusion crust (by
forces of nature) from stony meteorites. 'Spalling' possibly? The
loss of crust, part or all, seems to be a rather common occurrence
especially for some of the more friable stonys. With the crust gone,
the stone is 'denuded'?"

Hi Mike and List, here are some examples:

ALHA77294 (H5):

Polygonally fractured, dull, brownish black fusion crust, approximately 
1 mm
thick,
covers all surfaces of this meteorite (~13.5 x 9.0 x 6.0 cm), with the 
exception
of the
edges, which appear to have been s p a l l e d.

ALHA78040 (AEUC):

The crust has been removed from the edges by s p a l l a t i o n and has
been preferentially weathered away on the surfaces in small circular 
areas.

ALHA78132 (AEUC):

The crust has been s p a l l e d or chipped in some areas ...

ALHA79022 (L3.7-4):

The areas devoid of fusion crust appear to have been s p a l l e d
off or preferentially plucked off because they occur along ridges.

Bagdad (IIIAB):

Most of the fusion crust has s p a l l e d off due to terrestrial 
corrosion
(Buchwald)...


Best wishes,

Bernd

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From cynapse at charter.net  Fri Sep 11 15:42:29 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:42:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] searching for the correct terminology
In-Reply-To: <8CC0122DD169EA2-1668-BFDD@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com>
References: <DIIE.000000AA00004011@paulinet.de>
	<8CC0122DD169EA2-1668-BFDD@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <3l9la55vfvc3esspi0ftbso5gq5q3efpoo@4ax.com>

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:14:40 -0400, you wrote:

>PS ... denuded matrix would sound perfect to me, or stripped meteorite 

Ah, but wouldn't the prefix "de-" make the word mean "to make no longer nuded"?
So an eroded meteorite should be said to have a nuded matrix...

Okay, kidding.  I know it is a real word (maybe different etymology for the
"de-" prefix?  Is this a job for Webbman?)    


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 14:50:45 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:50:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Zamashan impact and human evolution
Message-ID: <242918.79454.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello - 

Given the somehwat heated debate here several years ago on the effects on human evolution of the Zamanshan Impact, the following item is of interest:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/a-skull-that-rewrites-the-history-of-man-1783861.html

One should note especially the problem of taxa the excavators hit with these finds. But whatever the name, it appears that we have a common ancestor to Homo Heidelbergensis/Homo Sapiens here, and the hit at Zamanshan occured in the midst of their range.

(I would suggest that an apology might be in order (ahem), but instead I'll simply state that replacement copies of "Man and Impact in the Americas" are available to meteorite list participants at the usual list special price in the case where their copy was used for other purposes.)

Ed






      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 15:03:50 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 12:03:50 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Strong Cosmological Principle
Message-ID: <117037.88788.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all- 

Given the stupidity demonstrated by our bureaucrats in the lack of search for the next ELE impactor, and assuminng normal solar system accretion mechanisms elsewhere, extending this well demonstrated stupidity throughout the Universe results in no intelligent life anywhere.

Thus I think that the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Stupidity (SETS) would have a far higher likelyhood of being successful. And just think of the ratings a re-broadcast of "Life with Lizard" would get! :p)

good hunting,
E.P.


      


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Fri Sep 11 15:29:36 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:29:36 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] searching for the correct terminology
References: <DIIE.000000AA00004011@paulinet.de><8CC0122DD169EA2-1668-BFDD@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com>
	<3l9la55vfvc3esspi0ftbso5gq5q3efpoo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <21270CC9CAAE48CC97EA5FFEC31A19F8@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Doug, List,

    Yes, it SHOULD mean that, but when was English
ever completely logical? Here; "de-" in "denuded" seems
to mean completely, thoroughly nude, as in stripped.

    Oddly enough in earlier English (middle English)
there was a prefix to be stuck on a verb to emphasize
the strength of the verb's action. "To-" was added. I have
seem several instances of "to-torn" used to mean not
just "torn" but "ripped to shreds."

    Earliest English (Anglo-Saxon) had many verb prefixes.
Modern English retains this love of sticking assorted
adjectives, adverbs, and prepositions onto helpless verbs.
Why are you "bewitched" when just being witched would
seem to be enough? Why "fix the car up"? Isn't it good
enough just to fix it?

    I mean, would you put up with that? Or, are there things
up with which you would not put?

    They're called "phrasal verbs":
http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~cpercy/courses/6361lamont.html

    As for spalling, my ancient battered geological dictionary
defines "spalling" as: "the chipping or fracturing with an
upward heaving, of rock caused by a compressional wave
at a free surface."  I think of flat flakes when I think of
spalling (which is not that often).


Sterling K. Webb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darren Garrison" <cynapse at charter.net>
To: "Mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>
Cc: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] searching for the correct terminology


> On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:14:40 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>PS ... denuded matrix would sound perfect to me, or stripped meteorite
>
> Ah, but wouldn't the prefix "de-" make the word mean "to make no 
> longer nuded"?
> So an eroded meteorite should be said to have a nuded matrix...
>
> Okay, kidding.  I know it is a real word (maybe different etymology 
> for the
> "de-" prefix?  Is this a job for Webbman?)
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Fri Sep 11 15:31:25 2009
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:31:25 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] John's article on MT
Message-ID: <c3f.56ea353e.37dbff8d@aol.com>

Hi list,  Be sure and check out John  Kashuba's Micro Vision article on 
this months Meteorite Times.   

Interesting article and great micrographs!  

Tom

In a  message dated 9/11/2009 11:24:40 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, 
paul at meteorite.com  writes:
Greetings Everyone,

The September issue of Meteorite-Times is  now up.

Tom Phillips mentioned in a previous email to the list, he is  stepping 
down from writing the Micro-Vision article.  We'd like to take  this 
opportunity to thank Tom for all his time, effort, and for all the  
magnificent pictures he took for Micro-Visions.

John Kashuba is now  writing the article and I'm sure most all of you are 
already familiar with  the quality work John does..  This is really a 
win-win for all of us as  now not only do we have John's great work, but 
now Tom will have the time to  update his gallery more often. Tom's 
already working on something for next  week. 

Thank you to all the other contributers  too!

http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm

Enjoy,

Paul  and  Jim



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list  mailing  list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list   



From jamespault at att.net  Fri Sep 11 15:45:02 2009
From: jamespault at att.net (James Tobin)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:45:02 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Times is up
Message-ID: <000901ca3318$77fa1430$0200000a@Jimscomputer>

Hi List,
I wanted to also thank all the contributors that work so hard writing 
articles every month.

I just go back from seeing Whiteout when hit theaters today. There are a 
couple mentions of meteorite collecting in an ablation area of Antarctica 
and one of the geologist uses "meteor". Is it just me or do I alone wish 
that Hollywood could get the three words meteoroid, meteor, and meteorite 
correct more regularly in movies.

At the end of my article in Meteorite Times this month I have a link to 
another piece I have written on Faith and Intellect. There is some serious 
religious content and just wanted to let you know ahead of time.

Have a great month and enjoy the magazine

Jim Tobin





From mexicodoug at aim.com  Fri Sep 11 15:45:58 2009
From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:45:58 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] searching for the correct terminology
In-Reply-To: <3l9la55vfvc3esspi0ftbso5gq5q3efpoo@4ax.com>
References: <DIIE.000000AA00004011@paulinet.de><8CC0122DD169EA2-1668-BFDD@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com>
	<3l9la55vfvc3esspi0ftbso5gq5q3efpoo@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <8CC012F9E466A38-1668-D588@webmail-d026.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Darren,

"So an eroded meteorite should be said to have a nuded matrix..."

Not any more than an open window should be said to be defenestrated :)

It would just be nude matrix if you wanted to say it that way, as 
denude is the verb; nude is the adjective. Webbman would probably say 
de- can mean to liberate, as in "deliver".

I just mentioned "denuded matrix" to contrast with the original 
question of calling it a "denuded meteorite", since "de-crusting" 
meteorites leaves the nude matrix, not the nude meteorite, as 
meteoroids are already denuded by ablation IMO. English has lots of 
great ways to express simple ideas; also thought Randy's and Chris's 
posts were also superb technical answers.

I still think calling them whatever makes sense at the time: sheared, 
shucked, ripped or stripped for want of a simple adjective on a hot day 
in the field has its place - not in the literature (though crust can 
look like paint and paint is "stripped")... but under many popular 
circumstances as are also used on the List.

Time to go back and look at some new chondrules
- or should we say freshly shucked Pearls from Space -

Best wishes,
Doug

PS, "Eroded" doesn't do it for me, as eroded meteorites can have plenty 
of crust.





-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
To: Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
Cc: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Fri, Sep 11, 2009 2:42 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] searching for the correct terminology



On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:14:40 -0400, you wrote:

>PS ... denuded matrix would sound perfect to me, or stripped meteorite

Ah, but wouldn't the prefix "de-" make the word mean "to make no longer 
nuded"?
So an eroded meteorite should be said to have a nuded matrix...

Okay, kidding. I know it is a real word (maybe different etymology for 
the
"de-" prefix? Is this a job for Webbman?)
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From jamespault at att.net  Fri Sep 11 15:52:47 2009
From: jamespault at att.net (James Tobin)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:52:47 -0800
Subject: [meteorite-list] sorry for the grammar and spelling
Message-ID: <002101ca3319$711b1640$0200000a@Jimscomputer>

Sorry for the couple errors in my post, My monitor is going out and is so 
blurry right now I can not read what I write.
Going out this afternoon to get a flatscreen.

Jim 



From freequarks at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 15:52:45 2009
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:52:45 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] John's article on MT
In-Reply-To: <c3f.56ea353e.37dbff8d@aol.com>
References: <c3f.56ea353e.37dbff8d@aol.com>
Message-ID: <822da19a0909111252t16f8c30ch9bbf7b7073f750ff@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Tom and All,

I don't want to let this torch passing milestone pass without a plug
for the genesis of Micro Visions. Back in May of 2006,

http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_Links/2006/May/Accretion_Desk.htm

This Accretion Desk article was like Tom's Greatest Hits to date. Then
37 installments of Micro Visions followed. Wow, what a ride.

Thanks Tom and have fun with all your time off. I look forward to when
you come out of retirement or at least produce a Greatest Hits Volume
2.

CHEERS, and welcome aboard John!

Martin



On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 1:31 PM,  <STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi list, ?Be sure and check out John ?Kashuba's Micro Vision article on
> this months Meteorite Times.
>
> Interesting article and great micrographs!
>
> Tom
>
> In a ?message dated 9/11/2009 11:24:40 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> paul at meteorite.com ?writes:
> Greetings Everyone,
>
> The September issue of Meteorite-Times is ?now up.
>
> Tom Phillips mentioned in a previous email to the list, he is ?stepping
> down from writing the Micro-Vision article. ?We'd like to take ?this
> opportunity to thank Tom for all his time, effort, and for all the
> magnificent pictures he took for Micro-Visions.
>
> John Kashuba is now ?writing the article and I'm sure most all of you are
> already familiar with ?the quality work John does.. ?This is really a
> win-win for all of us as ?now not only do we have John's great work, but
> now Tom will have the time to ?update his gallery more often. Tom's
> already working on something for next ?week.
>
> Thank you to all the other contributers ?too!
>
> http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm
>
> Enjoy,
>
> Paul ?and ?Jim
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list ?mailing ?list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 16:29:53 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 13:29:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Earth astroblemes rate of discovery
Message-ID: <341120.18742.qm@web53111.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear List,

A somewhat new paper on Earth impact craters:


http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2009/09/earths-astroblemes-rate-of-discovery.html

Dirk Ross...Tokyo


From fujmon at mac.com  Fri Sep 11 17:11:59 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:11:59 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-ebay ASP auction
Message-ID: <36DE395C-FEFA-4356-AAC9-E5226E52900C@mac.com>

I'm at the airport on the way to ASP in CaliFrisco, so I'm posting  
this reminder about an ebay auction I have ending tomorrow beginning  
12:37 PDT.

Featured items are cherry and oriented NWA 869, Sah 02500, Pultusk,  
Sulagiri, Allende, Tatahouine, and a lava olivine xenolith thats da  
Bomb!

I'm bringing my stones with me and will be able to deliver prompt  
service, so don't hesitate to take a look at some of these specimens  
and bid ... there are still a number of deals to be had at: http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

Mahalo nui e Mino?aka no ke k?ko?o!
Thanks, and here's  a smile for you all!

Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From bolidechaser at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 11 18:18:12 2009
From: bolidechaser at yahoo.com (Robert Verish)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:18:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD (sort of): Los Angeles - Diabasic Shergottite
Message-ID: <501798.67289.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

More of a heads-up here:

Going to cut some specimens from my LA mars rocks for some researchers.  
If you have been waiting for the next piece of Los Angeles to come onto the market, NOW is the time to contact me, while they are still in the saw-vise.
Don't know when I'll be cutting samples again.
So, contact me off-List with your size/shape weight/cost requirements.

Bob V.

*********************************
    Robert Verish
    Meteorite-Recovery Lab 
    P.O. Box 463084    
    Escondido, CA
    USA   92046
 
    E-mail:  bolidechaser at yahoo.com
    Cell:    (818) 599-5071
    website: <http://meteorite-recovery.org/>
*********************************


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Sep 11 18:37:52 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:37:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: September 7-11, 2009
Message-ID: <200909112237.n8BMbqaU005980@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
September 7-11, 2009

o Channels (Released 07 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090907a

o Lamont Crater (Released 08 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090908a

o Richardson Crater (Released 09 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090909a

o Jeans Crater (Released 10 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090910a

o Kaiser Crater (Released 11 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090911a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 





From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Sep 11 18:42:46 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:42:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] NASA's LCROSS Reveals Target Crater For Lunar
	South Pole Impacts
Message-ID: <200909112242.n8BMgkXA007372@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



Sept. 11, 2009

Grey Hautaluoma/Ashley Edwards                      
Headquarters, Washington                                
202-358-0668/1756 
grey.hautaluoma-1 at nasa.gov, ashley.edwards-1 at nasa.gov   

Jonas Dino                                                   
NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif. 
650-604-5612 
jonas.dino at nasa.gov   
RELEASE: 09-210

NASA'S LCROSS REVEALS TARGET CRATER FOR LUNAR SOUTH POLE IMPACTS

MOFFETT FIELD, Calif. - NASA has selected a final destination for its 
Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite, or LCROSS, after a 
journey of nearly 5.6 million miles that included several orbits 
around Earth and the moon. The mission team announced Wednesday that 
Cabeus A will be the target crater for the LCROSS dual impacts 
scheduled for 7:30 a.m. EDT on Oct. 9, 2009. The crater was selected 
after an extensive review as the optimal location for LCROSS' 
evaluation of whether water ice exists at the lunar south pole. 

LCROSS will search for water ice by sending its spent upper-stage 
Centaur rocket to impact the permanently shadowed polar crater. The 
satellite will fly into the plume of dust left by the impact and 
measure the properties before also colliding with the lunar surface. 
The LCROSS team selected Cabeus A based on a set of conditions that 
include proper debris plume illumination for visibility from Earth, a 
high concentration of hydrogen, and mature crater features such as a 
flat floor, gentle slopes and the absence of large boulders. 

"The selection of Cabeus A was a result of a vigorous debate within 
the lunar science community that included review of the latest data 
from Earth-based observatories and our fellow lunar missions Kaguya, 
Chandrayaan-1, and the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter," said Anthony 
Colaprete, LCROSS project scientist and principle investigator at 
NASA's Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif. "The team is 
looking forward to the impacts and the wealth of information this 
unique mission will produce." 

A cadre of professional astronomers using many of the Earth's most 
capable observatories is helping maximize the scientific return from 
the LCROSS impacts. These observatories include the Infrared 
Telescope Facility and Keck telescope in Hawaii; the Magdalena Ridge 
and Apache Ridge Observatories in New Mexico and the MMT Observatory 
in Arizona; the newly refurbished Hubble Space Telescope; and the 
Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, among others. 

"These and several other telescopes participating in the LCROSS 
Observation Campaign will provide observations from different vantage 
points using different types of measurement techniques," said 
Jennifer Heldmann, lead for the LCROSS Observation Campaign at Ames. 
"These multiple observations will complement the LCROSS spacecraft 
data to help determine whether or not water ice exists in Cabeus A." 

During a media briefing Sept. 11, Daniel Andrews, LCROSS project 
manager at Ames, provided a mission status update indicating the 
spacecraft is healthy and has enough fuel to successfully accomplish 
all mission objectives. Andrews also announced the dedication of the 
LCROSS mission to the memory of legendary news anchor, Walter 
Cronkite, who provided coverage of NASA's missions from the beginning 
of America's manned space program to the age of the space shuttle. 

"Dad would sure be proud to be part, if just in name, of getting 
humans back up to the moon and beyond," said Chip Cronkite, son of 
the famed news anchor. 

The LCROSS mission was selected in April 2006 as a mission manifested 
with the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter. Both missions launched on June 
18, 2009 on an Atlas V from Cape Canaveral, Fla. The LCROSS mission 
and science operations are managed at Ames. 

"The LCROSS team has long been preparing for its final destination on 
the moon, and we're looking forward to October 9," Andrews said. "The 
next 28 days will undoubtedly be very exciting." 

For more information about the Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing 
Satellite Mission and images of Cabeus A, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/lcross 
	
-end-



From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Fri Sep 11 18:40:32 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 11 Sep 2009 22:40:32 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Searching for the correct terminology
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000005D00004019@paulinet.de>

Sterling wrote:

"Oddly enough in earlier English...I have seen several instances
 of "to-torn" used to mean not just "torn" but "ripped to shreds."

Here's an excerpt from the 5th century writer Paulus Orosius concerning
the sack of Rome by the Goths in 410. The translator may even have been
King Alfred: "...ond ealda ceastra ond ealde byrig *towurpon*, ..."

.. and they *completely* destroyed old castles (fortresses) and old cities (towns), ...

"weorpan" is the German word "werfen" (= throw). The prefix "to" intensifies
the meaning of the word (see Sterling's comment above!). They did not only
"overthrow" the fortresses and towns, they left complete devestation!

As both English and German are Germanic or Teutonic languages, you find lots
of these "phrasal verbs" in both languages! Maybe some of the "older" List members
remember my post: The Aweful German Language (by Mark Twain!).

Best wishes,

Bernd




From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Fri Sep 11 20:04:37 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:04:37 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Searching for the correct terminology
References: <DIIE.0000005D00004019@paulinet.de>
Message-ID: <C4933A5DB46043B4B506F00241307E3E@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Bernd, List,

The linguists pin-point the origin of the
people who brought the Old English
(Anglo-Saxon) to England as the western
half of the base of the penisula that is
now Denmark and the Continental coast
to the west of that peninsula. They seem
to have been a coastal people unwilling to
settle anywhere without the immediate
use of their warships. Not settling-down
kind of people at all...

As England is without any doubt the most
invaded country in history (with the possible
exception of parts of the Middle East), its
language contains remnants and relics of
words from over 60 languages. Some of them
are more or less inexplicable -- English has
a few Sumerian words. No one has any idea
how that happened.

Calculating how much of English comes from
what language is a messy business and estimates
vary widely. The French always comes out on top
because they were the most recent invaders!

There are delicate issues here. Do you count
Scots words as a dialect of English? Think twice
before you open your mouth!

Based on the 80,000 most common words in
English (out of 600,000), the word origins are:
French and Old Norman --- 28.3%
Latin --- 28.2%
All the Germanic languages together --- 25%
Greek --- 5.3%
Mysterious, no origin known -- 4%
Derived from proper names -- 3.3%
All other languages --- 5.9%

Or, based on the 10,000 most common words:
French (langue d'o?l): 41%
"Native" English: 33%
Latin: 15%
Old Norse: 2%
Dutch: 1%
Other: 10%

But, never forget the basic rule of English: if you
don't like the word you've got, make one up or
better still, just go steal a word you like better!
English has more "constructed" words than most
languages -- we've made up or stolen about a third
of the language!

Yes, this is Off Topic! The word METEOR and the
word COMET are both Greek! (That's the best
on-topic remark I could manage...)


Sterling K. Webb
------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 5:40 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Searching for the correct terminology


> Sterling wrote:
>
> "Oddly enough in earlier English...I have seen several instances
> of "to-torn" used to mean not just "torn" but "ripped to shreds."
>
> Here's an excerpt from the 5th century writer Paulus Orosius 
> concerning
> the sack of Rome by the Goths in 410. The translator may even have 
> been
> King Alfred: "...ond ealda ceastra ond ealde byrig *towurpon*, ..."
>
> .. and they *completely* destroyed old castles (fortresses) and old 
> cities (towns), ...
>
> "weorpan" is the German word "werfen" (= throw). The prefix "to" 
> intensifies
> the meaning of the word (see Sterling's comment above!). They did not 
> only
> "overthrow" the fortresses and towns, they left complete devestation!
>
> As both English and German are Germanic or Teutonic languages, you 
> find lots
> of these "phrasal verbs" in both languages! Maybe some of the "older" 
> List members
> remember my post: The Aweful German Language (by Mark Twain!).
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bernd
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From mmurray at montrose.net  Fri Sep 11 20:28:43 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 18:28:43 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Searching for the correct terminology
In-Reply-To: <C4933A5DB46043B4B506F00241307E3E@ATARIENGINE2>
References: <DIIE.0000005D00004019@paulinet.de>
	<C4933A5DB46043B4B506F00241307E3E@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <4F2B66E2-0446-4E24-B303-2310F11D0B0F@montrose.net>

 From what I can observe on some small specimens, it is more than just  
the removal of fusion crust that is involved.  As the crust is broken  
or chipped off, due to whatever cause, there is a certain, albeit  
small amount, of the matrix removed also, leaving the newly exposed  
surface very rough.  Pitted if you like.  The shape of the stone is  
not changed all that much of course, and without magnification, one  
might not see what the remaining surface is like.  Weathering or  
whatever the cause, it is a fantastic thing to see the exposed matrix  
in its rawest appearance.  Fusion crust has its own special appeal and  
I don't mean to be taking anything away from crusted stones with my  
thoughts on this.

Mike in CO

On Sep 11, 2009, at 6:04 PM, Sterling K. Webb wrote:

> Hi, Bernd, List,
>
> The linguists pin-point the origin of the
> people who brought the Old English
> (Anglo-Saxon) to England as the western
> half of the base of the penisula that is
> now Denmark and the Continental coast
> to the west of that peninsula. They seem
> to have been a coastal people unwilling to
> settle anywhere without the immediate
> use of their warships. Not settling-down
> kind of people at all...
>
> As England is without any doubt the most
> invaded country in history (with the possible
> exception of parts of the Middle East), its
> language contains remnants and relics of
> words from over 60 languages. Some of them
> are more or less inexplicable -- English has
> a few Sumerian words. No one has any idea
> how that happened.
>
> Calculating how much of English comes from
> what language is a messy business and estimates
> vary widely. The French always comes out on top
> because they were the most recent invaders!
>
> There are delicate issues here. Do you count
> Scots words as a dialect of English? Think twice
> before you open your mouth!
>
> Based on the 80,000 most common words in
> English (out of 600,000), the word origins are:
> French and Old Norman --- 28.3%
> Latin --- 28.2%
> All the Germanic languages together --- 25%
> Greek --- 5.3%
> Mysterious, no origin known -- 4%
> Derived from proper names -- 3.3%
> All other languages --- 5.9%
>
> Or, based on the 10,000 most common words:
> French (langue d'o?l): 41%
> "Native" English: 33%
> Latin: 15%
> Old Norse: 2%
> Dutch: 1%
> Other: 10%
>
> But, never forget the basic rule of English: if you
> don't like the word you've got, make one up or
> better still, just go steal a word you like better!
> English has more "constructed" words than most
> languages -- we've made up or stolen about a third
> of the language!
>
> Yes, this is Off Topic! The word METEOR and the
> word COMET are both Greek! (That's the best
> on-topic remark I could manage...)
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de>
> To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 5:40 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Searching for the correct terminology
>
>
>> Sterling wrote:
>>
>> "Oddly enough in earlier English...I have seen several instances
>> of "to-torn" used to mean not just "torn" but "ripped to shreds."
>>
>> Here's an excerpt from the 5th century writer Paulus Orosius  
>> concerning
>> the sack of Rome by the Goths in 410. The translator may even have  
>> been
>> King Alfred: "...ond ealda ceastra ond ealde byrig *towurpon*, ..."
>>
>> .. and they *completely* destroyed old castles (fortresses) and old  
>> cities (towns), ...
>>
>> "weorpan" is the German word "werfen" (= throw). The prefix "to"  
>> intensifies
>> the meaning of the word (see Sterling's comment above!). They did  
>> not only
>> "overthrow" the fortresses and towns, they left complete devestation!
>>
>> As both English and German are Germanic or Teutonic languages, you  
>> find lots
>> of these "phrasal verbs" in both languages! Maybe some of the  
>> "older" List members
>> remember my post: The Aweful German Language (by Mark Twain!).
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Bernd
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From pict at pict.co.uk  Sat Sep 12 02:09:14 2009
From: pict at pict.co.uk (John Hendry)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 09:09:14 +0300
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette cutting question
In-Reply-To: <mailman.108.1252698378.16725.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.108.1252698378.16725.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <001501ca336f$8e632890$ab2979b0$@co.uk>

I just finished reading 'Rocks from Space' and there is mention that the
Willamette iron was gifted to the American Museum of Natural History by Mrs
William Dodge with the condition that it never be cut up. In the context of
this agreement how did it come about that a substantial 30lb end slice was
removed? Is there any published background on why this agreement was reneged
upon?

Personally I feel the removal has excessively damaged the overall aesthetic
of the meteorite - a bit like if an 1/8 of an inch was sliced off the end of
someone's nose. So my question is that if it is decided that a
morphologically spectacular meteorite needs to be sampled why cannot a core
be cut with the entry point on a relatively flat surface - perhaps the
bottom of a regmaglypt. After core extraction it would be relatively easy to
disguise the hole but keep the overall external appearance intact. 

John

 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4417 (20090911) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Sat Sep 12 07:33:48 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 07:33:48 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 12,
	2009
Message-ID: <bc5.51e5e5a1.37dce11c@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_12_2009.html  



From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 09:31:56 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 06:31:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] unclaasified meteorites and gao forsale
Message-ID: <283979.96880.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Good day?list.I have several unclassed stones forsale as well as a few gao pieces.The unclassed ones are all crusted.Prices?upon request,I am using my wifes computer because mine is out being fixed,so pics will not be available.Some are in my website.Off list please.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


      


From mstreman53 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 10:34:30 2009
From: mstreman53 at yahoo.com (Mr EMan)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 07:34:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Willamette cutting question
In-Reply-To: <001501ca336f$8e632890$ab2979b0$@co.uk>
Message-ID: <792491.95620.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Hello John

Circular diamond coring bits only came into use recently. The Willamette donation was in the early 1900's. I can only assume that the saw method of the time dictated the location of the cut: large heavy frames using a wire loop with abrasives hand fed into the grove.  It is not like one could easily rotate the mass easily. 

I am happy to see the use of core sample extraction more frequently in sampling. However, coring has a drawback in that it is very difficult to lubricate and can heat up the core changing some magnetic states.

Elton


From gmhupe at htn.net  Sat Sep 12 13:40:01 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 13:40:01 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Angrite NWA 4931 & Willamette cutting question
References: <792491.95620.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <17292CD257A2453BA5E2E8C3F50E5578@Gregor>

Hello John, Elton and List,

John and Elton were discussing the use of a core drill to remove a sample 
from meteorites for aesthetic reasons. I've have used this technique on one 
meteorite I have. It is an Angrite, NWA 4931 which, at the time, I did not 
want to cut in order to get to the center material for scientists at MIT to 
perform magnetism analysis.

Here is my description of NWA 4931 with photo links of the coring and 
overall meteorite:

>>
NWA 4931, the Main Mass to the now famous angrite, NWA 2999. NWA 4931 has a 
Total Known Weight (TKW) of 2140 grams in two interlocking fragments, which 
form a complete stone. Surprisingly, the two parts were recovered by nomads 
months apart in the Sahara Desert in 2007. The first 1314-gram half was 
flown to Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston where scientists 
extracted a core sample in order to conduct magnetism tests, which they 
hoped would provide vital evidence indicating the size of the Angrite Parent 
Body (APB).



Image of 1314-gram stone representing 60% of entire mass (cube: 1-inch 
square):

http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/nwa4931complete1.jpg



Link to image of core sampling at MIT laboratory:

http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/nwa4931core.jpg



Image of 66-gram complete slice displaying abundant xenocrysts:

http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/nwa4931slice.jpg



An international consortium of scientists, led by Dr. Benjamin Weiss of MIT, 
took a new approach to the problem by testing samples from several angrites 
with an extremely sensitive magnetometer. They discovered the material 
showed evidence of ancient magnetic fields similar to those of rocks formed 
on Earth within the planet's magnetic field. In other words, as the team 
reported in the October 31, 2008 issue of Science, these 4.56 
billion-year-old meteorites once were part of bodies that were either big 
enough or hot enough to produce central, molten, metallic cores.



Link to LPSC abstract on magnetic field on Angrite Parent Body:

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/2143.pdf



"The meteorites, therefore, are essentially magnetic recording tapes," says 
Weiss. The magnetic fields that they recorded were probably generated by 
molten metal swirling around inside the planet's core like a giant, rotating 
dynamo, as happens on Earth. Angrites are among the oldest known pristine 
basaltic meteorites ever found and have provided new clues about the 
conditions that existed at the beginning of the solar system, solving a 
longstanding mystery and overturning some accepted ideas about the way 
planets form. They still contain magnetic records about the earliest stages 
of planet formation and differentiation.



ScienceNOW Daily News: October 30, 2008:

http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2008/1030/2



Science October 31, 2008:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/322/5902/713



Link to abstract reporting ages of angrites NWA 2999, NWA 4801 and NWA 4590 
"Tamassint":

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metchron2007/pdf/4061.pdf



BSE image of corona textures in NWA 4931.
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/nwa4931bse.jpg

<<



I have never announced or offered any of NWA 4931 publicly, but this may be 
as good a time as any. If anyone is interested in a large slice of an 
important Angrite, I can send a list of what is available. If there is 
enough interest, I will post the availability list here.



Best regards,
Greg


====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mr EMan" <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "John Hendry" <pict at pict.co.uk>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Willamette cutting question


> Hello John
>
> Circular diamond coring bits only came into use recently. The Willamette 
> donation was in the early 1900's. I can only assume that the saw method of 
> the time dictated the location of the cut: large heavy frames using a wire 
> loop with abrasives hand fed into the grove.  It is not like one could 
> easily rotate the mass easily.
>
> I am happy to see the use of core sample extraction more frequently in 
> sampling. However, coring has a drawback in that it is very difficult to 
> lubricate and can heat up the core changing some magnetic states.
>
> Elton
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From vk3ukf at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 12 15:13:57 2009
From: vk3ukf at hotmail.com (Kevin Forbes)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 05:13:57 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scots
In-Reply-To: <mailman.19.1252771237.86573.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.19.1252771237.86573.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <BAY110-W233EF118DFEEF80279DB6B99E60@phx.gbl>


Even just the mere thought of contemplating this statement,

"Do you count Scots words as a dialect of English?"

to me seems, well, glaekit.

_________________________________________________________________
Take a peek at other people's pay and perks Check out The Great Australian Pay Check
http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/

From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Sat Sep 12 16:00:21 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:00:21 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scots
References: <mailman.19.1252771237.86573.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
	<BAY110-W233EF118DFEEF80279DB6B99E60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <B53FC84B1D494BBB99AFEF6FB3E2843E@ATARIENGINE2>

Fer a while, I stood there wi' a
glaikit look on my fizzog, then:
http://literalbarrage.org/blog/archives/2005/01/09/your-scottish-slang-word-o-the-day-glaikit/


Sterling K. Webb
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kevin Forbes" <vk3ukf at hotmail.com>
To: "List Meteorite" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 2:13 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scots


>
> Even just the mere thought of contemplating this statement,
>
> "Do you count Scots words as a dialect of English?"
>
> to me seems, well, glaekit.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Take a peek at other people's pay and perks Check out The Great 
> Australian Pay Check
> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From gmhupe at htn.net  Sat Sep 12 16:09:50 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:09:50 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scots
References: <mailman.19.1252771237.86573.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com><BAY110-W233EF118DFEEF80279DB6B99E60@phx.gbl>
	<B53FC84B1D494BBB99AFEF6FB3E2843E@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <41B718083EF14F3CB18CE8888310711B@Gregor>

Being of Scottish decent, can I use this as a proper sentence?

I once heard there was a Dog, a Cow and possibly a Fence "Kilt" by falling 
rocks! ;-)

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Kevin Forbes" <vk3ukf at hotmail.com>; "List Meteorite" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 4:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Scots


> Fer a while, I stood there wi' a
> glaikit look on my fizzog, then:
> http://literalbarrage.org/blog/archives/2005/01/09/your-scottish-slang-word-o-the-day-glaikit/
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kevin Forbes" <vk3ukf at hotmail.com>
> To: "List Meteorite" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 2:13 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Scots
>
>
>>
>> Even just the mere thought of contemplating this statement,
>>
>> "Do you count Scots words as a dialect of English?"
>>
>> to me seems, well, glaekit.
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Take a peek at other people's pay and perks Check out The Great 
>> Australian Pay Check
>> http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 




From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 18:21:00 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:21:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] oriented sikhote alin
Message-ID: <897696.61470.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi list.I just the most oriented sa today that I have ever seen?or had in my collection.It is 90 grams with flow lines emanating from every direction.I have alot of sa's,but never anything this nice.You can view it in my website http:/chicagometeorites.net/.I thank geoff notkin for making this available.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


      


From erikfwebb at msn.com  Sat Sep 12 18:57:20 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:57:20 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] photobucket test. [DELETE]
Message-ID: <COL119-W2052CDF198DD314D5894B2A4E60@phx.gbl>


http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=IMG_4015copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4015copy.jpg

From erikfwebb at msn.com  Sat Sep 12 19:15:37 2009
From: erikfwebb at msn.com (Erik Fisler)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:15:37 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holbrook Blitz
Message-ID: <COL119-W365DE3897B8A0C1363088AA4E60@phx.gbl>


Recently pops and I drove up to Holbrook for a quick one day
hunt.  Considering that we didn't even spend 8 hours looking we made out like bandits.
I have insitu pictures, cleaned up pictures, and total pictures
which is quite a few so Ill here are our two totals first for people who
don't have time to sift through a lot of pictures:
Erik's Total (14.7g's)- http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=IMG_4197.jpg
 
Dad's Total (18g's)- http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=IMG_4198.jpg
 
Here is my dad with his 8.7 gram stone: 
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=IMG_4015copy.jpg
 
 
Here are the isitu pictures:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3887copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3894copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3907copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3920copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3928copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3932copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3955copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3965copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3970copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3973copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3979copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3982copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3984copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3985copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3989copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3991copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3993copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3999copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4001copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4004copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4005copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4006copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4008copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4020copy.jpg
 
Here are the cleaned up shots. There are two shots, a front and back, for
each stone.  The cube shows T for Top and B for bottom.
 
Dad's:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4128.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4130copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4131.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4132.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4133.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4135.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4136.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4138.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4139.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4140.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4141.jpg
 
 
Erik's:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4152.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4154.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4155.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4158.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4159.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4160.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4161.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4162.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4163.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4164.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4165.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4166.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4168.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4169.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4170.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4171.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4172.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4174.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4176.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4177.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4178.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4179.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4180.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4181.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4182.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4183.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4184.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4185.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4186.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4187.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4188.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4189.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4191.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4192.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4193.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4195.jpg
 
Enjoy
[Erik]
 
 
 

From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 21:03:56 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 18:03:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Moon Rocks illegal?
Message-ID: <394830.9641.qm@web46404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

It seems Lunar Rock is a "controlled substance" and is illegal to own...
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/07/20/lunar-rocks-are-a-co.html
http://www.geotimes.org/sept02/NN_moon.html
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-12/976929331.As.r.html

Is this true? What does it mean for Lunar Meteorites?
Can anyone offer info about this?

Thanks, and hope everyone has a great weekend (whats left of it)
Greg C.


      


From Impactika at aol.com  Sat Sep 12 21:33:21 2009
From: Impactika at aol.com (Impactika at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:33:21 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Moon Rocks illegal?
Message-ID: <ccc.5b059f32.37dda5e1@aol.com>

Greg,
 
Those articles are very old and outdated.
The Geotimes article is dated Sept. 2002
The Madsci one is from Dec. 2000.
 
Things heve changed, there are now over 50 known, different lunar 
meteorites. Not so rare anymore.
 
Anne M. Black
_http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) 
_IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) 
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
_http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) 
 
 
In a message dated 9/12/2009 7:04:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
star_wars_collector at yahoo.com writes:
It seems Lunar Rock is a "controlled substance" and is illegal to own...
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/07/20/lunar-rocks-are-a-co.html
http://www.geotimes.org/sept02/NN_moon.html
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-12/976929331.As.r.html

Is this true? What does it mean for Lunar Meteorites?
Can anyone offer info about this?

Thanks, and hope everyone has a great weekend (whats left of it)
Greg C.
 


From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 22:08:15 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:08:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Moon Rocks illegal?
In-Reply-To: <ccc.5b059f32.37dda5e1@aol.com>
References: <ccc.5b059f32.37dda5e1@aol.com>
Message-ID: <772748.54208.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I beg to differ that they are not rare any more.  A single person could easily carry all of the known lunar meteorites on their back at once.  If you compared to this to diamond production, you would need bulldozers and dumptrucks to care a single day's yield.

Best Regards,

Adam


 



----- Original Message ----
From: "Impactika at aol.com" <Impactika at aol.com>
To: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 6:33:21 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon Rocks illegal?

Greg,

Those articles are very old and outdated.
The Geotimes article is dated Sept. 2002
The Madsci one is from Dec. 2000.

Things heve changed, there are now over 50 known, different lunar 
meteorites. Not so rare anymore.

Anne M. Black
_http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) 
_IMPACTIKA at aol.com_ (mailto:IMPACTIKA at aol.com) 
Vice-President, I.M.C.A. Inc.
_http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) 


In a message dated 9/12/2009 7:04:09 PM Mountain Daylight Time, 
star_wars_collector at yahoo.com writes:
It seems Lunar Rock is a "controlled substance" and is illegal to own...
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/07/20/lunar-rocks-are-a-co.html
http://www.geotimes.org/sept02/NN_moon.html
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-12/976929331.As.r.html

Is this true? What does it mean for Lunar Meteorites?
Can anyone offer info about this?

Thanks, and hope everyone has a great weekend (whats left of it)
Greg C.

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 22:19:12 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:19:12 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Postcards
Message-ID: <f0a794130909121919q6bfadc37pdd8caf56c3bf7c40@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List,

I plan on sending out close to 2,000 of these post cards next week to
property owners with 10 or more acres in the 6 zip codes that include
and surround the Lancaster County search area. Within the last few
days I have started to get more meteorite found reports. The leads
that I have followed up with so far have turned out to be slag. To a
meteorite novice, slag really does look like a meteorite or what you
would think a meteorite would look like if you had never seen one
before. Slag is black, often magnetic and burnt. It is easy to
mistakenly think a piece of slag could be a meteorite if you don't
know what you are looking for.

With this post card I hope to 1) Raise awareness and excitement with a
broad number of residents that extend beyond our refined search area.
2) Give the residents an informational and visual guide to help them
identify a meteorite 3) Let them know about slag and how to identify
it (in an effort to cut down on false reports)

Here is the front of the card:

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/meteor-postcard-front.jpg

Here is the back of the card:

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/meteor-postcard-back.jpg

I plan on sending these out early next week. Please let me know if you
have any comments, criticism or suggestions before they hit the mail.

Thanks,

Mike Hankey
http://www.mikesastrophotos.com


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 22:32:12 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:32:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Moon Rocks illegal?
In-Reply-To: <394830.9641.qm@web46404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <50756.88394.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Greg,

the first article you cite states it correctly. It is illegal (in the US) to own any lunar material that made it to earth via an Apollo mission. It is perfectly legal to own lunar material that makes it to earth "naturally".

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Sat, 9/12/09, Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Moon Rocks illegal?
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 6:03 PM
> It seems Lunar Rock is a "controlled
> substance" and is illegal to own...
> http://www.boingboing.net/2009/07/20/lunar-rocks-are-a-co.html
> http://www.geotimes.org/sept02/NN_moon.html
> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-12/976929331.As.r.html
> 
> Is this true? What does it mean for Lunar Meteorites?
> Can anyone offer info about this?
> 
> Thanks, and hope everyone has a great weekend (whats left
> of it)
> Greg C.
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Sat Sep 12 22:45:21 2009
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:45:21 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Moon Rocks illegal?
In-Reply-To: <50756.88394.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <394830.9641.qm@web46404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<50756.88394.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4ED19C624B2540A490FF1A5ACB9D79FE@Bandli1>

It is legal to own -some- moon-dust stained items released by Astronauts,
which contain lunar material (at a microscopic level) - Velcro, Beta Cloth,
etc.. They have long been sold by artifact dealers without restriction. This
is the ONLY way to own 'moon dust' from Apollo. I've seen some nice swatches
that contain those microscopic orange spherules of glass. Neat stuff, but
I'd rather own a big chunk of lunar meteorite.

Mike Bandli
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA #5765

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Kowalski
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:32 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Greg Catterton
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon Rocks illegal?

Greg,

the first article you cite states it correctly. It is illegal (in the US) to
own any lunar material that made it to earth via an Apollo mission. It is
perfectly legal to own lunar material that makes it to earth "naturally".

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Sat, 9/12/09, Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Moon Rocks illegal?
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 6:03 PM
> It seems Lunar Rock is a "controlled
> substance" and is illegal to own...
> http://www.boingboing.net/2009/07/20/lunar-rocks-are-a-co.html
> http://www.geotimes.org/sept02/NN_moon.html
> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-12/976929331.As.r.html
> 
> Is this true? What does it mean for Lunar Meteorites?
> Can anyone offer info about this?
> 
> Thanks, and hope everyone has a great weekend (whats left
> of it)
> Greg C.
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 23:00:22 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:00:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Moon Rocks illegal?
In-Reply-To: <4ED19C624B2540A490FF1A5ACB9D79FE@Bandli1>
Message-ID: <249837.323.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I often say, "Wait for the qualifier."

Thanks Mike. I stand corrected.

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Sat, 9/12/09, Mike Bandli <fuzzfoot at comcast.net> wrote:

> From: Mike Bandli <fuzzfoot at comcast.net>
> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Moon Rocks illegal?
> To: "'Richard Kowalski'" <damoclid at yahoo.com>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "'Greg Catterton'" <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 7:45 PM
> It is legal to own -some- moon-dust
> stained items released by Astronauts,
> which contain lunar material (at a microscopic level) -
> Velcro, Beta Cloth,
> etc.. They have long been sold by artifact dealers without
> restriction. This
> is the ONLY way to own 'moon dust' from Apollo. I've seen
> some nice swatches
> that contain those microscopic orange spherules of glass.
> Neat stuff, but
> I'd rather own a big chunk of lunar meteorite.
> 
> Mike Bandli
> www.HistoricMeteorites.com
> IMCA #5765
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
> On Behalf Of Richard
> Kowalski
> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:32 PM
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com;
> Greg Catterton
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon Rocks illegal?
> 
> Greg,
> 
> the first article you cite states it correctly. It is
> illegal (in the US) to
> own any lunar material that made it to earth via an Apollo
> mission. It is
> perfectly legal to own lunar material that makes it to
> earth "naturally".
> 
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
> 
> 
> --- On Sat, 9/12/09, Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Moon Rocks illegal?
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 6:03 PM
> > It seems Lunar Rock is a "controlled
> > substance" and is illegal to own...
> > http://www.boingboing.net/2009/07/20/lunar-rocks-are-a-co.html
> > http://www.geotimes.org/sept02/NN_moon.html
> > http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-12/976929331.As.r.html
> > 
> > Is this true? What does it mean for Lunar Meteorites?
> > Can anyone offer info about this?
> > 
> > Thanks, and hope everyone has a great weekend (whats
> left
> > of it)
> > Greg C.
> > 
> > 
> > ? ? ? 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 


      


From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Sun Sep 13 00:13:03 2009
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 00:13:03 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Postcards
Message-ID: <00AF77AC4D80419F929F9BCC59A6CA41@whitmerjbqtim1>

Hey Mike,

I think the postcards are a great idea!  You're taking a very good approach 
to this hunt. I for one say if there are meteorites to be found in this 
area, you'll find 'em!  The only thing I would add to the description would 
be to look for tiny metal flecks and small circular rounded bumps 
(chondrules).  I know it's probably too late for major changes, but you 
might want to add a bit of biographical information, about your historic 
photo and how you're now on an epic quest to recover the fall. Adds some 
human interest to the story, might make people want to get more involved.

I know you're downplaying the economic side of it, you obviously aren't 
doing this as a money making venture.  It's a touchy subject, but moolah is 
a big motivator, look at all the stones it brought out of NWA.  I guess you 
said they're valuable, that should be enough.  I'm just guessing but this 
seems to be a smaller fall than West.  Otherwise a stone or two would have 
been found by now you'd think. West initially went for over 140 a gram, then 
leveled off at 70.  That kind of incentive would have me walking corn fields 
from sunup to sundown. (Nothing compared to the thrill of the hunt, though.) 
Offering a reward is sort of vulgar, but it might get results. I know this 
is a controversial matter and I'm not a dealer or a hunter (been on two 
hunts, an extensive one for the Plymouth Meteorite and  not so extensive one 
for the Rochester Meteorite), so I can't say one way or another.

OK,  Bird-in-hand,  Intercourse, Bareville, it sounds like a bunch of 
sophomores made up those names!

Now, if you just spoke High German!,

Phil Whitmer





From ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp  Sat Sep 12 23:03:54 2009
From: ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp (ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 12:03:54 +0900 (JST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] =?iso-2022-jp?b?Q09NRVQgUC8xNzgzIFcxID0gMjAwMyBB?=
 =?iso-2022-jp?b?MSA9IDIwMDkgUjIgKFBJR09UVC1MSU5FQVItS09XQUxTS0kp?=
In-Reply-To: <4ED19C624B2540A490FF1A5ACB9D79FE@Bandli1>
References: <394830.9641.qm@web46404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<50756.88394.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<50756.88394.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4ED19C624B2540A490FF1A5ACB9D79FE@Bandli1>
Message-ID: <200909130303.n8D33sdY028351@mx61.ms.so-net.ne.jp>

Great job! Congrats, Richard!

http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/mpec/K09/K09R40.html
http://www.comethunter.de/

Katsu OHTSUKA
Tokyo, JAPAN


From dave at fallingrocks.com  Sun Sep 13 00:30:14 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 00:30:14 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Available for Trade (new & update) AD
Message-ID: <4A0748868C304076BD53B380E079127E@meteorroom>

Hello, All,

After looking at several trades involving multiple specimens including the
Barbotan, that piece has been transferred individually.

Some additional specimens can be found here as well on this updated link:
http://www.fallingrocks.com/trade.htm.

All the best,

Dave

Dave Gheesling
IMCA #5967
www.fallingrocks.com 



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 13 00:53:35 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:53:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] COMET P/1783 W1 = 2003 A1 = 2009 R2
	(PIGOTT-LINEAR-KOWALSKI)
In-Reply-To: <200909130303.n8D33sdY028351@mx61.ms.so-net.ne.jp>
Message-ID: <941248.9909.qm@web33908.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks Katsu,

this is my first comet in nearly two years. This one had gotten lost after an encounter with Jupiter (0.0605 AU) exactly three years ago to the day of recovery.


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Sat, 9/12/09, ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp <ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp> wrote:

> From: ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp <ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] COMET P/1783 W1 = 2003 A1 = 2009 R2 (PIGOTT-LINEAR-KOWALSKI)
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 8:03 PM
> Great job! Congrats, Richard!
> 
> http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/mpec/K09/K09R40.html
> http://www.comethunter.de/
> 
> Katsu OHTSUKA
> Tokyo, JAPAN
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Sun Sep 13 00:55:25 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 00:55:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] COMET P/1783 W1 = 2003 A1 = 2009 R2
 (PIGOTT-LINEAR-KOWALSKI)
Message-ID: <28696550.1252817725959.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Sincere congratulations, Richard. You are well on your way to ...how is it said? Ah, yes...becoming notorious!

Guido

-----Original Message-----
>From: ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp
>Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:03 PM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] COMET P/1783 W1 = 2003 A1 = 2009 R2 (PIGOTT-LINEAR-KOWALSKI)
>
>Great job! Congrats, Richard!
>
>http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/mpec/K09/K09R40.html
>http://www.comethunter.de/
>
>Katsu OHTSUKA
>Tokyo, JAPAN
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 13 04:09:54 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 01:09:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Thin Sections for sale and more (even a
	website)
Message-ID: <842351.92496.qm@web46404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi to all, hope everyone is good. I have a few things in this ad.

I have 4 really nice thin sections of the Camel Donga (Eucrite) for sale.
$75 each off ebay or $80 on ebay.
These are uncovered to allow the buyer the option of testing and study.

Thin sections available:

#1
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF2220.jpg
#2
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF2218.jpg
#3
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF2216.jpg
#4
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF2214.jpg

Here is an image of the Camel Donga meteorite under xpol light
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/CamelDongaTS1.jpg


I also have many meteorites ending on ebay in the next 24 hours you can see my listings here:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1

I purchased the website www.brenhammeteorites.com some time ago.
Original plans were to use it, but I dont have the time to maintain it and market is properly. If anyone is interested in it, make an offer.
With the Meteorite Men TV show with Brenham featured, Im sure there will be a increase in interest in the fall, this site could be a good source for selling Brenham meteorites... it is after all BrenhamMeteorites.com!
In the top 5 if not higher for many search engines, this is a great site.

One last thing...
I will be posting a few things to Erics site www.spacifieds.com on Sunday.
Everything I list will be 10% off normal ebay prices (to reflect a portion of the savings from not having final value fees) for those who want a deal.

Thanks for looking,

Greg C.
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com






      


From pict at pict.co.uk  Sun Sep 13 05:03:06 2009
From: pict at pict.co.uk (John Hendry)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 12:03:06 +0300
Subject: [meteorite-list] Angrite NWA 4931 & Willamette cutting
In-Reply-To: <mailman.35.1252810826.8812.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.35.1252810826.8812.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <000601ca3451$02c216b0$08464410$@co.uk>

Elton,

I subsequently found the missing bit here...
http://www.darrylpitt.com/willamette.html

The article states that there is evidence of sampling elsewhere, and that
"science was again served when this meteorite was cut in 1997" and the end
piece in question was removed. So twelve years ago there was undoubtedly no
issues with core sampling technology not being available, so science would
appear to have been served in a clumsy fashion. Possibly something to do
with the trade value of an end piece versus a core?

Greg,

I like this, it looks much less intrusive..
>Link to image of core sampling at MIT laboratory:
>http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/nwa4931core.jpg

Interesting paper you link to...
>Link to LPSC abstract on magnetic field on Angrite Parent Body:
>http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/2143.pdf

Especially interesting (re: D'Orbigny) is the differentiation of the random
field from the collector's magnet and the stable oriented field presumably
induced by the parent body. Now the stable oriented field is discounted as
having been acquired by slow thermal acquisition of the earth's field after
landing (VRM) or from recrystallisation from a weathering process. However
is there any possibility that an oriented meteorite might become magnetised
on entry - it gets hot (ok, probably not in the middle), keeps it's
orientation, and crosses the earth's albeit rather weak flux extremely
quickly?

Also I thought coercivity was the resistance to demagnetisation and was
related to the magnetic material. I therefore don't get how one can have one
magnetic material (the meteorite) carrying high and low coercivity fields
unless the fields are carried in different mineral components e.g. one in
pyrrhotite and one in magnetite (or throw native iron into the mix). Maybe
this is the point that the stable field is held equally through all magnetic
minerals but the one from the collector's magnet only really established
itself in the more easily magnetised (and demagnetised) component - whatever
that is (iron I guess).

Regards,
John





From bristolia at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 13 07:59:56 2009
From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 04:59:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Younger Dryas Impact hypothesis GSA and AGU
	Abstracts
Message-ID: <532655.81712.qm@web36206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The GSA abstracts can be found in "T94. Impact Cratering 
from the Microscopic to the Planetary Scale II (GSA 
Planetary Geology Division; International Continental 
Scientific Drilling Program [ICDP]; GSA Sedimentary 
Geology Division; GSA Structural Geology and Tectonics
Division; GSA Geophysics Division; Paleontological 
Society; GSA International Division) at 

http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2009AM/finalprogram/session_25177.htm

The abstracts are;

1. Dryas. Pinter, N., A. C. Andrew, and D. Ebel, 2009,
Extraterrestrial and Terrestrial Signatures at the Onset of 
the Younger Geological Society of America Abstracts with 
Programs. 

http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2009AM/finalprogram/abstract_162563.htm

2. Holliday, V. T., and D. J. Meltzer, 2009, Geoarchaeology 
of the 12.9ka Impact hypothesis. Geological Society of 
America Abstracts with Programs. 

http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2009AM/finalprogram/abstract_160959.htm

3. Paquay, F., S. Goderis, G. Ravizza, and P. Claeys, 2009, No
evidence of of extraterrestrial geochemical components at the
Bolling-Allerod/Younger Dryas Transition. Geological Society 
of America Abstracts with Programs. 

http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2009AM/finalprogram/abstract_163154.htm

4. Surovell, T. A., and V. T. Holliday, 2009, Non-
Reproducibility of Younger Dryas Extraterrestrial Impact 
Results. Geological Society of America Abstracts with 
Programs. 

http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2009AM/finalprogram/abstract_163912.htm

PDF files of various papers by Dr. V. T. Holliday can be 
found beneath "Publications of Vance T. Holliday" at:

http://www.argonaut.arizona.edu/holliday.htm

This includes:

Vance T. Holliday, David A. Kring, James H. Mayer, and Ronald J. 
Goble, Age and effects of the Odessa meteorite impact, western Texas, 
USA. Geology. vol.  33, pp. 945-947.  at:

http://www.argonaut.arizona.edu/articles/holliday_etal2005.pdf

The Abstracts to the 2009 American Geophysical Union
presentations for "PP15: Younger Dryas Boundary: 
Extraterrestrial Impact or Not?" have not been posted
yet. Eventually, they should appear at 

http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm09/program/scientific_session_search.php?show=detail&sessid=388
 
According to George Howard, http://www.georgehoward.net/clovis_comet_at_fall_2009_agu.htm ,
the titles of the accepted papers are:
 
1. Lost Impacts

2. High resolution Osmium isotopes in deep-sea 
ferromanganese crusts reveal a large meteorite impact 
in the Central Pacific at 12.4 ka

3. What Caused the Younger Dryas? An Assessment of 
Existing Hypotheses

4. An Independent Evaluation of the Younger Dryas 
Extraterrestrial Impact Hypothesis

5. Cosmic impact: What are the odds?

6. Cometary airbursts and atmospheric chemistry: 
Tunguska and a candidate Younger Dryas event

7. Problems with the Younger Dryas Boundary ( YDB ) 
Impact Hypothesis

8. Beringian Megafaunal Extinctions at ~37 ka B.P.: 
Do Micrometeorites Embedded in Fossil Tusks and 
Skulls Indicate an Extraterrestial Precursor to 
the Younger Dryas Event?

9. Airbursts in the Sky with Diamonds? Shock 
Limits to a Younger Dryas Impact.

10. The platinum group metals in Younger Dryas 
Horizons are terrestrial

11. Putting the Younger Dryas Cold Event into Context

12. Field-Analytical approach of land-sea records 
for elucidating the Younger Dryas Boundary syndrome

13 Evidence of four prehistoric supernovae <250 
parsecs from Earth during the past 50,000 years

14. Oblique impacts into low impedance layers

15. Cold Climate Related Structural Sinks Accommodate 
Unusual Soil Constituents, Pinelands National Reserve, 
New Jersey, USA.

16. Positive anomaly in platinum group elements and 
the presence of shocked diamonds: Two question marks 
at the Younger Dryas

17. Nanodiamonds and Carbon Spherules from Tunguska, 
the K/T Boundary, and the Younger Dryas Boundary Layer

18. Are Nanodiamonds Evidence for a Younger Dryas 
Impact Event?

19. Rockyhock and Kimbel Carolina Bays: Extraterrestrial 
Impact or Terrestrial Genesis?

20. No support from osmium isotopes for an impact event 
at the Bolling-Allerod/Younger Dryas transition

21. Climatic Control of Biomass Burning During the Last 
Glacial-Interglacial Transition

22. Human Population Decline in North America during 
the Younger Dryas

23. Summary of impact markers and potential impact
 mechanisms for the YDB impact event at 12.9 ka

24. Testing Younger Dryas ET Impact ( YDB ) Evidence 
at Hall?s Cave, Texas

25. Wildfires, Soot and Fullerenes in the 12,900 ka 
Younger Dryas boundary layer in North America.

Obviously, the discussion about the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis continues.

Yours,

Paul H.


      


From wahlperry at aol.com  Sun Sep 13 11:28:59 2009
From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:28:59 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holbrook Blitz
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W365DE3897B8A0C1363088AA4E60@phx.gbl>
References: <COL119-W365DE3897B8A0C1363088AA4E60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CC029E0CF0E501-3CD8-327E5@webmail-m031.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Erik,Ben

Way to go!  Keep up the good work.

Sonny


-----Original Message-----
From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb at msn.com>
To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 12, 2009 4:15 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holbrook Blitz







Recently pops and I drove up to Holbrook for a quick one day
hunt.  Considering that we didn't even spend 8 hours looking we made 
out like
bandits.
I have insitu pictures, cleaned up pictures, and total pictures
which is quite a few so Ill here are our two totals first for people who
don't have time to sift through a lot of pictures:
Erik's Total (14.7g's)- 
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=IMG_4197.jpg

Dad's Total (18g's)- 
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=IMG_4198.jpg

Here is my dad with his 8.7 gram stone:
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=IMG_4015copy.jpg


Here are the isitu pictures:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3887copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3894copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3907copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3920copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3928copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3932copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3955copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3965copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3970copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3973copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3979copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3982copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3984copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3985copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3989copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3991copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3993copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3999copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4001copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4004copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4005copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4006copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4008copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4020copy.jpg

Here are the cleaned up shots. There are two shots, a front and back, 
for
each stone.  The cube shows T for Top and B for bottom.

Dad's:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4128.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4130copy.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4131.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4132.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4133.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4135.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4136.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4138.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4139.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4140.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4141.jpg


Erik's:
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4152.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4154.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4155.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4158.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4159.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4160.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4161.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4162.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4163.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4164.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4165.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4166.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4168.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4169.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4170.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4171.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4172.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4174.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4176.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4177.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4178.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4179.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4180.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4181.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4182.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4183.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4184.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4185.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4186.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4187.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4188.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4189.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4191.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4192.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4193.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4195.jpg

Enjoy
[Erik]



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list







From mikewren at gilanet.com  Sun Sep 13 13:30:09 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 10:30:09 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD:  Thousands In Auctions This Week! Also,
	A good time to make offers on Items You Have Watched For A Long
	Time....
Message-ID: <6670FE0A-8584-40B0-A9BA-BBD8DD64B85C@gilanet.com>

Hello,

A quick note to remind folks that I have great auctions ending this  
week. Please take a look. I have had a lot of watchers on a lot of  
items for sometime now and if you are one of those people-feel free to  
make an offer. I am looking for extra cash to buy an old collection.   
Also, if you check all my auctions, you will see I have reduced some  
to fly out the door!

All Auctions Here:

http://shop.ebay.com:80/merchant/meteorite-collector_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ


Also Here For Everything:

http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history


Thanks and Best Wishes

Michael Cottingham


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sun Sep 13 13:45:13 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 10:45:13 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Announcement: Are You On My List?
Message-ID: <4AAD2FA9.1070601@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi listees,

This is a presale announcement. If you're not on my mailing list, you 
might want to Get On it Now! http://www.meteoritesusa.com/newsletter/

I'm getting ready to list some special items like I've never posted 
before. My personal mailing list will get first dibs. I will be mailing 
out to my list this evening BEFORE I mail out to the Met-List.

If you're not on my personal mailing list YOU WILL MISS OUT on some 
great pieces. Brenham, Dronino, Admire, Campo del Cielo, Canyon Diablo, 
Nantan, Glorieta, Seymchan, Franconia, Toluca, Taza, Muonionalusta, 
Gibeon, Brahin, and some gorgeous UNWA... There will be no second chances.

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
904-236-5394

P.S. If you have questions, please contact me via email off-list or by 
phone and I'll be glad to help you.




From cdtucson at cox.net  Sun Sep 13 12:35:27 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 12:35:27 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Postcards
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909121919q6bfadc37pdd8caf56c3bf7c40@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20090913123527.UTPNM.173731.imail@fed1rmwml37>

Mike,
Your approach is a good one but some slag does not only look like some meteorites but some meteorites look like some slag. The two can in fact have very subtle differences.
To that end I would not leave it up to a farmer to decide. It is well worth the trouble to let an informed observer check them all out.
A lot of impact melts did melt like slag and do look like slag.
The best example is Cat Mountain . This find fooled not only Scientists but Bob Haag himself. The reason is that it was so severely shocked that even on a broken surface the interior is as dark as the fusion crust. And what if it happens to be an IMB like Cat? 
Cat also showed no metal grains or chondrules until cut open. So, It really can require an expert to check them out.
If you shoot this list photos I'm sure between us we can narrow down the prospects. After that we also have some fine meteoriticists on this list that can take it from there. 
If you have "The Robert Haag "Collection Of Meteorites" "private Collection Edition" page 87 shows a nice picture of Cat MT.
Good luck to you. 
Carl
PS if you don't I will shoot you or anyone else a picture off-list. 

Carl or Debbie Esparza
IMCA 5829
Meteoritemax


---- Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote: 
> Dear List,
> 
> I plan on sending out close to 2,000 of these post cards next week to
> property owners with 10 or more acres in the 6 zip codes that include
> and surround the Lancaster County search area. Within the last few
> days I have started to get more meteorite found reports. The leads
> that I have followed up with so far have turned out to be slag. To a
> meteorite novice, slag really does look like a meteorite or what you
> would think a meteorite would look like if you had never seen one
> before. Slag is black, often magnetic and burnt. It is easy to
> mistakenly think a piece of slag could be a meteorite if you don't
> know what you are looking for.
> 
> With this post card I hope to 1) Raise awareness and excitement with a
> broad number of residents that extend beyond our refined search area.
> 2) Give the residents an informational and visual guide to help them
> identify a meteorite 3) Let them know about slag and how to identify
> it (in an effort to cut down on false reports)
> 
> Here is the front of the card:
> 
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/meteor-postcard-front.jpg
> 
> Here is the back of the card:
> 
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/meteor-postcard-back.jpg
> 
> I plan on sending these out early next week. Please let me know if you
> have any comments, criticism or suggestions before they hit the mail.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mike Hankey
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 20:10:34 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 17:10:34 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Postcards
In-Reply-To: <00AF77AC4D80419F929F9BCC59A6CA41@whitmerjbqtim1>
References: <00AF77AC4D80419F929F9BCC59A6CA41@whitmerjbqtim1>
Message-ID: <93aaac890909131710y1f3aed03y798a49463754476a@mail.gmail.com>

Hola,
Well, I'd have to disagree.  I wouldn't tell people to look for flecks
of metal - small rounded bumps, maybe, but...it's very unusual to see
metal on the broken surface of a chondrite.
My only criticism would be that there is a small chance that the stone
was carbonaceous or achondritic (including irons, pallasites).
Admittedly, the odds would be very against that, but if someone does
find an iron, given your postcard, they might think nothing of it -
same goes for any C-type chondrite, really, given the fact that you
say the interior of a meteorite would be cement-coloured.
Adding comments like 'Fell from space' don't really add anything.
Yeah, if the person saw it 'fall from space,' it's probably a
meteorite.  Amusing, but there's more useful information you could
include in that space.  My problem with making fliers for the West
fall, as well as others, was that there is just too much potentially
useful information to squeeze onto an 8 1/2 by 11 piece of paper.
You've done a good job as-is, assuming the fall was a relatively
unshocked ordinary chondrite...
Regards,
Jason

On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com> wrote:
> Hey Mike,
>
> I think the postcards are a great idea! ?You're taking a very good approach
> to this hunt. I for one say if there are meteorites to be found in this
> area, you'll find 'em! ?The only thing I would add to the description would
> be to look for tiny metal flecks and small circular rounded bumps
> (chondrules). ?I know it's probably too late for major changes, but you
> might want to add a bit of biographical information, about your historic
> photo and how you're now on an epic quest to recover the fall. Adds some
> human interest to the story, might make people want to get more involved.
>
> I know you're downplaying the economic side of it, you obviously aren't
> doing this as a money making venture. ?It's a touchy subject, but moolah is
> a big motivator, look at all the stones it brought out of NWA. ?I guess you
> said they're valuable, that should be enough. ?I'm just guessing but this
> seems to be a smaller fall than West. ?Otherwise a stone or two would have
> been found by now you'd think. West initially went for over 140 a gram, then
> leveled off at 70. ?That kind of incentive would have me walking corn fields
> from sunup to sundown. (Nothing compared to the thrill of the hunt, though.)
> Offering a reward is sort of vulgar, but it might get results. I know this
> is a controversial matter and I'm not a dealer or a hunter (been on two
> hunts, an extensive one for the Plymouth Meteorite and ?not so extensive one
> for the Rochester Meteorite), so I can't say one way or another.
>
> OK, ?Bird-in-hand, ?Intercourse, Bareville, it sounds like a bunch of
> sophomores made up those names!
>
> Now, if you just spoke High German!,
>
> Phil Whitmer
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 13 20:52:51 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 17:52:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] COMET P/1783 W1 = 2003 A1 = 2009 R2
	(PIGOTT-LINEAR-KOWALSKI)
In-Reply-To: <28696550.1252817725959.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <290163.49750.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks... I'm not sure "notorious" is the right word, but ok...

I was doing a little research on the history of the comet and found a pair of pages that might be of interest. Sorry that this is off topic for the list.


http://tinyurl.com/p9y3nq

http://cometography.com/pcomets/226p.html 

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Sat, 9/12/09, countdeiro at earthlink.net <countdeiro at earthlink.net> wrote:

> From: countdeiro at earthlink.net <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] COMET P/1783 W1 = 2003 A1 = 2009 R2 (PIGOTT-LINEAR-KOWALSKI)
> To: ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 9:55 PM
> Sincere congratulations, Richard. You
> are well on your way to ...how is it said? Ah,
> yes...becoming notorious!
> 
> Guido
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: ohtsuka at jb3.so-net.ne.jp
> >Sent: Sep 12, 2009 11:03 PM
> >To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >Subject: [meteorite-list] COMET P/1783 W1 = 2003 A1 =
> 2009 R2 (PIGOTT-LINEAR-KOWALSKI)
> >
> >Great job! Congrats, Richard!
> >
> >http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/mpec/K09/K09R40.html
> >http://www.comethunter.de/
> >
> >Katsu OHTSUKA
> >Tokyo, JAPAN
> >______________________________________________
> >http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >Meteorite-list mailing list
> >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sun Sep 13 21:06:25 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:06:25 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Meteorites & Stuff - BIG SALE
Message-ID: <4AAD9711.4040206@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi All,

This has really been a long time coming...

This will be my last email to the list for the foreseeable future. I've 
got some family issues I need to take care of and my online adventures 
will have to take a back seat to life, love, and the pursuit of space rocks.

In the meantime, this is my last effort to generate some much needed 
cash. Those of you who've helped us thus far, I want to send out a BIG 
THANK YOU! You know who you are, I thank you and will remember the 
kindness and generosity.

I've got some items for sale that absolutely MUST move in the next 
24hrs. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it. To keep things short and 
to the point here's the short list.

------------------------------------------------------------

My Meteorites For Sale: Take all deal

25 UNWA Meteorite Slices End Cuts and Lots = $349 For All ($900+ retail 
value)

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/Bits-Of-Earth-LLC_Meteorites_W0QQ_fsubZ18165848QQ_sidZ161661447QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322

Contact me off-list if you want them all.

Also Available: Some very nice Bassikounou & UNWA smalle crusted Specimens
http://www.meteoritesusa.com/special.htm

------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some very NICE:

Brenham
Dronino
Admire
Campo del Cielo
Canyon Diablo
Nantan
Glorieta
Seymchan
Franconia
Toluca
Taza
Muonionalusta
Gibeon
Brahin

meteorite specimens for your collection:
http://www.meteoritesusa.com/meteorites-for-sale/index.htm

------------------------------------------------------------

Ad Space On 3 of the Top 10 Meteorite Websites On Google

Ad Space On www.MeteoritesUSA.com TOP 10 Meteorite Site - 125x125 pixel 
Ads = $99 Year
Ad Space On www.MeteoriteBlog.com TOP 10 Meteorite Site  - 125x125 pixel 
Ads = $99 Year
Ad Space On www.Spacifieds.com TOP 10 Astronomy Site - 125x125 pixel Ads 
= $99 Year

All 3 Sites For An Entire Year = $199
Buy 2 Ads Spots on 2 Sites for = $150

BONUS: Oh yeah, if you buy all three 125x125 pixel ad spots on all 3 
sites, I'll throw in a free $25 50x50 pixel ad in the featured sites 
section of the home page of MeteoritesUSA.com for a full year as well 
for FREE

Best of all I'll your banner for you too. (Animation is extra ;)

NOTE: Spacifieds.com is now a TOP 10 website! I am #9 in Google for very 
competitive and very higly searched for terms relating directly to 
astronomy. If you're a meteorite dealer, or astronomy buff with a 
website, or blog It would be in your best interest to get your ad on 
this site now before I raise the price on the 125x125 ad space. Which I 
will very soon!

------------------------------------------------------------

Lapidary Equipment

NEW BLADES:
2 - BRAND NEW In Box! Never used 8" Baranca Diamond Lapidary Blades 
.032" (5/8" arbor w/1/2" adapter) = $40ea
1 - BRAND NEW In Box! Never used 10" Baranca Diamond Lapidary Blade 
.040" (5/8" arbor w/1/2" adapter) = $60
1 - BRAND NEW In Box! Never Used 6" Meteorite Blade .012" 1/2" = $25

Buy All 4 NEW Blades For = $135 shipped

USED BLADES:

1 - MK-297 Criterion Lapidary Diamond Blade - Used For One Day (Cut 
about 25 Stones) Still Good! - 10"X.032X5/8" = $50
1 - Unknown Brand 10" Diamond Blade - Decent Shape (Cut About 50 Stones) 
+ $25

Buy Both Used Blades = $65

-------------------------------------------------------------

MeteoriteTalk.com = Website FOR SALE = Perhaps the BEST forum domain 
name related to meteorites you can buy! Details on the site: 
www.meteoritetalk.com

Contact me for price. 904-236-5394

-------------------------------------------------------------

WEST TEXAS NEWPAPERS!!! Contact me off-list for price.

West News:
I have a few "West News" papers (Date: March 5th Edition) with the 
HOPPER STORY Featuring Hopper the meteorite finding dog, and our friends 
and fellow meteorite family members Ruben Garcia, & Rob Wesel.
Cover Title METEORITE HUNTER - "West dog finds meteorite and brings it 
home to owner - Page A4 headline Reads - "Meteorite Hunting Dog Hits 
Paydirt"

Waco Tribune-Herald: Date Thursday Feb 26th 2009
This is the notorious article featuring the front page cover story 
headline that reads "Locals not catching the meteorite fever"

This is one of the more famous papers of the West Texas (AshCreek) 
meteorite because it featured photos of some of the first stones found, 
the classification, and the proposed meteorite strewnfield map!

The article inside continues on about the value of meteorites, 
classification, and farmers getting perturbed. In addtion there's a neat 
little "Meteorites Wanted" ad too! ;)

A very collectible newspaper.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Enjoy!

Call me or drop me an email with questions and ordering info.

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA
904-236-5394



From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Sun Sep 13 21:00:31 2009
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:00:31 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Postcards
Message-ID: <9026A357D5EA45418D91659A5A061108@whitmerjbqtim1>

Jason, Mike,

Of course you're right about the metal flakes, the stone would have to be 
cut and polished to see them. (Duh! on my part).

It would seem that if this was a big fall, at least one stone would have 
turned up by now.  The Amish farmers with their slow moving horse drawn 
equipment would find some stones you'd think. I think there are  also a lot 
of Mennonite and Old Order Brethren farmers in that area. They're all people 
that live close to the earth.  They would be more likely to respond to a 
postcard written in Pennsylvania Dutch (Deitsch).  I don't think there's an 
online translator for that though!

The corn picking will start in a couple of weeks, maybe something will turn 
up.

Phil Whitmer 



From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Sun Sep 13 23:04:29 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:04:29 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 14,
	2009
Message-ID: <d41.4b9123fb.37df0cbd@aol.com>

http://www.sikhote-alin.org/September_14_2009.html  



From piebear at cox.net  Mon Sep 14 00:43:28 2009
From: piebear at cox.net (Arlene Schlazer)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:43:28 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
	September 14, 2009
In-Reply-To: <d41.4b9123fb.37df0cbd@aol.com>
References: <d41.4b9123fb.37df0cbd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <64BFCF0A4FF646F5BE997FADF6DD397A@PiePC>

Now THAT is a great find!  Can't ask for a better conversation piece.....it 
pretty much tells its own story!....thanks for sharing....Arlene
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:04 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 
14,2009


> http://www.sikhote-alin.org/September_14_2009.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 00:50:15 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:50:15 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Postcards
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890909131710y1f3aed03y798a49463754476a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <00AF77AC4D80419F929F9BCC59A6CA41@whitmerjbqtim1>
	<93aaac890909131710y1f3aed03y798a49463754476a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f0a794130909132150g68bf7db9ia03d5e90ab295e9c@mail.gmail.com>

I know there are some assumptions i've made that could cause things to
back fire. e.g. if this is not a west like stone this will not work.
its a gamble, and the odds are in favor, but if it turns out not to
be... this won't help.

the fell from space thing is to add to excitement, but I agree its not
very descriptive.

i had another version with pictures of a lot of different kinds of
meteorites but I thought that was also confusing.

There isn't a lot of room on the postcard or for people's attention
span. the challenge is keeping it simple but informative at the same
time. the goal is to get people jacked up about looking for it and to
give them some help along the way. Realistically I can't go on 2000
meteor-wrong reports either... so there has to be some balance and
compromise.

most people have told me this will be similar to the west fall, i'm
not sure if this is just because of the odds, or if there are other
reasons.

The witness reports described a blue-ish color. I'm not sure if there
is anyway to guess the type based on the colors described in witness
reports?

thanks for the feedback.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 8:10 PM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hola,
> Well, I'd have to disagree. ?I wouldn't tell people to look for flecks
> of metal - small rounded bumps, maybe, but...it's very unusual to see
> metal on the broken surface of a chondrite.
> My only criticism would be that there is a small chance that the stone
> was carbonaceous or achondritic (including irons, pallasites).
> Admittedly, the odds would be very against that, but if someone does
> find an iron, given your postcard, they might think nothing of it -
> same goes for any C-type chondrite, really, given the fact that you
> say the interior of a meteorite would be cement-coloured.
> Adding comments like 'Fell from space' don't really add anything.
> Yeah, if the person saw it 'fall from space,' it's probably a
> meteorite. ?Amusing, but there's more useful information you could
> include in that space. ?My problem with making fliers for the West
> fall, as well as others, was that there is just too much potentially
> useful information to squeeze onto an 8 1/2 by 11 piece of paper.
> You've done a good job as-is, assuming the fall was a relatively
> unshocked ordinary chondrite...
> Regards,
> Jason
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com> wrote:
>> Hey Mike,
>>
>> I think the postcards are a great idea! ?You're taking a very good approach
>> to this hunt. I for one say if there are meteorites to be found in this
>> area, you'll find 'em! ?The only thing I would add to the description would
>> be to look for tiny metal flecks and small circular rounded bumps
>> (chondrules). ?I know it's probably too late for major changes, but you
>> might want to add a bit of biographical information, about your historic
>> photo and how you're now on an epic quest to recover the fall. Adds some
>> human interest to the story, might make people want to get more involved.
>>
>> I know you're downplaying the economic side of it, you obviously aren't
>> doing this as a money making venture. ?It's a touchy subject, but moolah is
>> a big motivator, look at all the stones it brought out of NWA. ?I guess you
>> said they're valuable, that should be enough. ?I'm just guessing but this
>> seems to be a smaller fall than West. ?Otherwise a stone or two would have
>> been found by now you'd think. West initially went for over 140 a gram, then
>> leveled off at 70. ?That kind of incentive would have me walking corn fields
>> from sunup to sundown. (Nothing compared to the thrill of the hunt, though.)
>> Offering a reward is sort of vulgar, but it might get results. I know this
>> is a controversial matter and I'm not a dealer or a hunter (been on two
>> hunts, an extensive one for the Plymouth Meteorite and ?not so extensive one
>> for the Rochester Meteorite), so I can't say one way or another.
>>
>> OK, ?Bird-in-hand, ?Intercourse, Bareville, it sounds like a bunch of
>> sophomores made up those names!
>>
>> Now, if you just spoke High German!,
>>
>> Phil Whitmer
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 01:00:07 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 01:00:07 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Postcards
In-Reply-To: <9026A357D5EA45418D91659A5A061108@whitmerjbqtim1>
References: <9026A357D5EA45418D91659A5A061108@whitmerjbqtim1>
Message-ID: <f0a794130909132200m6f1a788bl939cf345300a317b@mail.gmail.com>

Phil,

>> They're all people that live close to the earth.

This is what I'm banking on, if they are aware and its in their sub
conscious when they come across it should register and they should act
on it.

As for it not being found yet, the amount of corn fields out here is
mind blowing. They have just started to cut crops, so there is still
80-90% of the land that is in-accessible until that happens. If
something doesn't turn up in the next 6 weeks, it probably never will.

Will keep you all posted. Thanks for all the feedback.

Mike

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com> wrote:
> Jason, Mike,
>
> Of course you're right about the metal flakes, the stone would have to be
> cut and polished to see them. (Duh! on my part).
>
> It would seem that if this was a big fall, at least one stone would have
> turned up by now. ?The Amish farmers with their slow moving horse drawn
> equipment would find some stones you'd think. I think there are ?also a lot
> of Mennonite and Old Order Brethren farmers in that area. They're all people
> that live close to the earth. ?They would be more likely to respond to a
> postcard written in Pennsylvania Dutch (Deitsch). ?I don't think there's an
> online translator for that though!
>
> The corn picking will start in a couple of weeks, maybe something will turn
> up.
>
> Phil Whitmer
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From zilla237 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 14 00:58:26 2009
From: zilla237 at hotmail.com (Dean Miera)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 22:58:26 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holbrook Blitz
In-Reply-To: <8CC029E0CF0E501-3CD8-327E5@webmail-m031.sysops.aol.com>
References: <COL119-W365DE3897B8A0C1363088AA4E60@phx.gbl>
	<8CC029E0CF0E501-3CD8-327E5@webmail-m031.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <BAY117-W277282B8527A4D2CE7E0978BE40@phx.gbl>


 Ben and Erik, Hola from New Mexico!  You two are the kings of Holbrook!  You always manage to tear it up when you are hunting Holbrook.  Save some for Zaya the Z-man and I.  Congrats on super finds!  Good on ya!
 
Dean and Z-man 
 
 
> To: erikfwebb at msn.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:28:59 -0400
> From: wahlperry at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Holbrook Blitz
> 
> Hi Erik,Ben
> 
> Way to go! Keep up the good work.
> 
> Sonny
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Erik Fisler 
> To: meteorite-list 
> Sent: Sat, Sep 12, 2009 4:15 pm
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Holbrook Blitz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Recently pops and I drove up to Holbrook for a quick one day
> hunt. Considering that we didn't even spend 8 hours looking we made 
> out like
> bandits.
> I have insitu pictures, cleaned up pictures, and total pictures
> which is quite a few so Ill here are our two totals first for people who
> don't have time to sift through a lot of pictures:
> Erik's Total (14.7g's)- 
> http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=IMG_4197.jpg
> 
> Dad's Total (18g's)- 
> http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=IMG_4198.jpg
> 
> Here is my dad with his 8.7 gram stone:
> http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view&current=IMG_4015copy.jpg
> 
> 
> Here are the isitu pictures:
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3887copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3894copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3907copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3920copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3928copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3932copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3955copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3965copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3970copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3973copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3979copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3982copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3984copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3985copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3989copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3991copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3993copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3999copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4001copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4004copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4005copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4006copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4008copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4020copy.jpg
> 
> Here are the cleaned up shots. There are two shots, a front and back, 
> for
> each stone. The cube shows T for Top and B for bottom.
> 
> Dad's:
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4128.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4130copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4131.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4132.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4133.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4135.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4136.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4138.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4139.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4140.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4141.jpg
> 
> 
> Erik's:
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4152.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4154.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4155.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4158.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4159.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4160.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4161.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4162.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4163.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4164.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4165.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4166.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4168.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4169.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4170.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4171.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4172.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4174.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4176.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4177.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4178.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4179.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4180.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4181.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4182.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4183.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4184.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4185.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4186.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4187.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4188.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4189.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4191.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4192.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4193.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4195.jpg
> 
> Enjoy
> [Erik]
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
_________________________________________________________________
Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digital tv's.
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From zilla237 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 14 01:08:14 2009
From: zilla237 at hotmail.com (Dean Miera)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 23:08:14 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Holbrook Blitz
In-Reply-To: <COL119-W365DE3897B8A0C1363088AA4E60@phx.gbl>
References: <COL119-W365DE3897B8A0C1363088AA4E60@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY117-W297E9C3BAA4D0D7C2A35498BE40@phx.gbl>


Erik and Ben,  Hola Que lindo son los estrellitas!  You two are the kings of HOlbrook!  Very nice finds!  Congrats to you both and good on ya!  Save a few for Zaya the Z-man and I!  Say hello to the familia.
 
Dean

----------------------------------------
> From: erikfwebb at msn.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:15:37 -0700
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Holbrook Blitz
>
>
> Recently pops and I drove up to Holbrook for a quick one day
> hunt. Considering that we didn't even spend 8 hours looking we made out like bandits.
> I have insitu pictures, cleaned up pictures, and total pictures
> which is quite a few so Ill here are our two totals first for people who
> don't have time to sift through a lot of pictures:
> Erik's Total (14.7g's)- http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view?t=IMG_4197.jpg
>
> Dad's Total (18g's)- http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view?t=IMG_4198.jpg
>
> Here is my dad with his 8.7 gram stone:
> http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/?action=view?t=IMG_4015copy.jpg
>
>
> Here are the isitu pictures:
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3887copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3894copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3907copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3920copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3928copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3932copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3955copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3965copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3970copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3973copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3979copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3982copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3984copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3985copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3989copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3991copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3993copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_3999copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4001copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4004copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4005copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4006copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4008copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4020copy.jpg
>
> Here are the cleaned up shots. There are two shots, a front and back, for
> each stone. The cube shows T for Top and B for bottom.
>
> Dad's:
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4128.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4130copy.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4131.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4132.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4133.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4135.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4136.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4138.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4139.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4140.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4141.jpg
>
>
> Erik's:
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4152.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4154.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4155.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4158.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4159.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4160.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4161.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4162.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4163.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4164.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4165.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4166.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4168.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4169.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4170.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4171.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4172.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4174.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4176.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4177.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4178.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4179.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4180.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4181.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4182.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4183.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4184.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4185.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4186.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4187.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4188.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4189.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4191.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4192.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4193.jpg
> http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/phxerik/IMG_4195.jpg
>
> Enjoy
> [Erik]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
_________________________________________________________________
Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digital tv's.
http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=digital+tv's&form=MSHNCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHNCB_Vertical_Shopping_DigitalTVs_1x1

From spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 14 03:16:58 2009
From: spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com (Melanie Matthews)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:16:58 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] =?windows-1256?q?Largest_known_intact_stone_mete?=
 =?windows-1256?q?orite=3F=FE=FE_=28first_post/testing=29?=
Message-ID: <BLU137-W10A34929FC02DAFBB7EE82D6E40@phx.gbl>


Hello list.

What is the largest intact stony meteorite ever found (whether an entire stone or a piece off of it), to date?

- Mel (those who know me - please welcome me to the list... I just joined a few days ago :-) ) 
IMCA #2975 

_________________________________________________________________
New: Messenger sign-in on the MSN homepage
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677403


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 03:34:09 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:34:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Postcards
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909132200m6f1a788bl939cf345300a317b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <223346.17126.qm@web53106.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Mike and List,
  Mike and the others still working on this potential meteorite fall, great job!  I appreciate your taking time and great expense to recover a meteorite from the Pennsylvania meteor.  Best of luck in finding a meteorite.  Dirk Ross...Tokyo


--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Postcards
> To: "Phil Whitmer" <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 2:00 PM
> Phil,
> 
> >> They're all people that live close to the earth.
> 
> This is what I'm banking on, if they are aware and its in
> their sub
> conscious when they come across it should register and they
> should act
> on it.
> 
> As for it not being found yet, the amount of corn fields
> out here is
> mind blowing. They have just started to cut crops, so there
> is still
> 80-90% of the land that is in-accessible until that
> happens. If
> something doesn't turn up in the next 6 weeks, it probably
> never will.
> 
> Will keep you all posted. Thanks for all the feedback.
> 
> Mike
> 
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 9:00 PM, Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>
> wrote:
> > Jason, Mike,
> >
> > Of course you're right about the metal flakes, the
> stone would have to be
> > cut and polished to see them. (Duh! on my part).
> >
> > It would seem that if this was a big fall, at least
> one stone would have
> > turned up by now. ?The Amish farmers with their slow
> moving horse drawn
> > equipment would find some stones you'd think. I think
> there are ?also a lot
> > of Mennonite and Old Order Brethren farmers in that
> area. They're all people
> > that live close to the earth. ?They would be more
> likely to respond to a
> > postcard written in Pennsylvania Dutch (Deitsch). ?I
> don't think there's an
> > online translator for that though!
> >
> > The corn picking will start in a couple of weeks,
> maybe something will turn
> > up.
> >
> > Phil Whitmer
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 03:42:42 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:42:42 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list]
	=?utf-8?q?Largest_known_intact_stone_meteorite?=
	=?utf-8?b?P+KAj+KAjyAoZmlyc3QgcG9zdC90ZXN0aW5nKQ==?=
In-Reply-To: <BLU137-W10A34929FC02DAFBB7EE82D6E40@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU137-W10A34929FC02DAFBB7EE82D6E40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <93aaac890909140042o35cf3864r1048f6f7cdef9a78@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Melanie,
The few largest stony meteorites yet found are:
1) The Jilin meteorite from China.  It weighs 1,770 kg.
2)  Norton County, from New Mexico, USA, which weighs 1,073 kg.
After these two, the list gets a little confused with large stones
that were found fragmented, etc.  I'd have added them, but my mind
drifted to Carancas and I had no idea where to put it...
Regards,
Jason


On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:16 AM, Melanie Matthews
<spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello list.
>
> What is the largest intact stony meteorite ever found (whether an entire stone or a piece off of it), to date?
>
> - Mel (those who know me - please welcome me to the list... I just joined a few days ago :-) )
> IMCA #2975
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> New: Messenger sign-in on the MSN homepage
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677403
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 03:50:11 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:50:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list]
 =?utf-8?q?Largest_known_intact_stone_meteorite?=
 =?utf-8?b?P+KAj+KAjyAoZmlyc3QgcG9zdC90ZXN0aW5nKQ==?=
In-Reply-To: <BLU137-W10A34929FC02DAFBB7EE82D6E40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <584587.35901.qm@web53103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear Melanie,
  Welcome to the meteorite list.  Perhaps the largest stone meteorite in one piece was an H5 chondrite, Jilin, China on March 8, 1978, 1770kgs, with a TKW of 4,000 kg.

http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2009/07/china-meteorite-news-jilin-meteorite.html

  Another large stone meteorite was Norton County, Kansas, an aubrite of 1078kgs.

http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/search?q=norton+county


Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo


 

--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Melanie Matthews <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> From: Melanie Matthews <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Largest known intact stone meteorite??? (first post/testing)
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 4:16 PM
> 
> Hello list.
> 
> What is the largest intact stony meteorite ever found
> (whether an entire stone or a piece off of it), to date?
> 
> - Mel (those who know me - please welcome me to the list...
> I just joined a few days ago :-) ) 
> IMCA #2975 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> New: Messenger sign-in on the MSN homepage
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677403
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net  Mon Sep 14 04:11:21 2009
From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 03:11:21 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ad Sale auctions on ebay, one ends in 11 hours,
	the others within 2-3 days:  RICHFIELD Meteorite Kansas,
	Meteorite OVERLAND PARK Kansas, Uvalde Meteorite H5 Texas,
	LONG ISLAND Meteorite Kansas,
	LAKE MURRAY Meteorite 1.38g COA IMCA IIAB VERY RARE NICE
Message-ID: <E5A80537202F46869564CC69DA32DB43@user6e6e286533>

Hello fellow Meteorite Collectors,

I hope you're having a great weekend!

I listed a few meteorites on ebay and there are a few ending within the next 
11 hours, on Monday afternoon. A few end over the next two days. Please have 
a look.


Please have a look at my ebay seller's page by clicking the link here. 
http://shop.ebay.com/searchingforfun/m.html?_nkw

RICHFIELD Meteorite Kansas 1.42 gm COA IMCA Nice LL3.7

http://cgi.ebay.com/RICHFIELD-Meteorite-Kansas-1-42-gm-COA-IMCA-Nice-LL3-7_W0QQitemZ270453437804

Meteorite OVERLAND PARK Kansas .74 gm COA IMCA Nice H4

http://cgi.ebay.com/Meteorite-OVERLAND-PARK-Kansas-74-gm-COA-IMCA-Nice-H4_W0QQitemZ270454038769

Uvalde Meteorite H5 Texas .688 gms IMCA 1915 Nice COA

http://cgi.ebay.com/Uvalde-Meteorite-H5-Texas-688-gms-IMCA-1915-Nice-COA_W0QQitemZ270454040194

LONG ISLAND Meteorite Kansas 7 gm COA IMCA Nice L6

http://cgi.ebay.com/LONG-ISLAND-Meteorite-Kansas-7-gm-COA-IMCA-Nice-L6_W0QQitemZ270454043471

LAKE MURRAY Meteorite 1.38g COA IMCA IIAB VERYRARE NICE
RARELY AVAILABLE IIAB OCTAHEDRITE OLDEST KNOWN INTACT

http://cgi.ebay.com/LAKE-MURRAY-Meteorite-1-38g-COA-IMCA-IIAB-VERYRARE-NICE_W0QQitemZ280395933860



Happy hunting and clear skies!

Have a great rest of the weekend!

Brian Cox
IMCA# 6387

searchingforfun is my ebay User ID 



From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Mon Sep 14 06:24:44 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:24:44 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list]
 =?utf-8?q?Largest_known_intact_stone_meteorite?=
 =?utf-8?b?P+KAj+KAjyAoZmlyc3QgcG9zdC90ZXN0aW5nKQ==?=
In-Reply-To: <BLU137-W10A34929FC02DAFBB7EE82D6E40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20090914112444.SCZE9.950644.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi Melanie,

Welcome to the list. As some others have said Jilin is the one. I always wanted to have a piece of it and recently managed to acquire a 1650g fragment, funnily enough only a couple of days after returning from a trip to China. You will find some great photos on the web of the huge hole it produced when it fell.

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.planetarium.montreal.qc.ca/Information/Expo_Meteorites/Images/fiches/small/image_jilin2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.planetarium.montreal.qc.ca/Information/Expo_Meteorites/Vedettes/jilin_a.html&usg=__6d495tTGXt87SvvmRTVHUJH7rsw=&h=177&w=180&sz=89&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=IDWm2wLb7ORp0M:&tbnh=99&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJilin%2Bmeteorite%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

Sorry for the long link paste.

If you want to see some pictures of my fragment off list let me know.

Graham Ensor UK
 
---- Melanie Matthews <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com> wrote: 
> 
> Hello list.
> 
> What is the largest intact stony meteorite ever found (whether an entire stone or a piece off of it), to date?
> 
> - Mel (those who know me - please welcome me to the list... I just joined a few days ago :-) ) 
> IMCA #2975 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> New: Messenger sign-in on the MSN homepage
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677403
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk  Mon Sep 14 06:57:11 2009
From: P.Davidson at nms.ac.uk (Peter Davidson)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:57:11 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scots
Message-ID: <D7171847AEFC6A4893D80C75E547E2711003F7@nmsmail02.nms2k.int>

Kevin, Greg, Sterling and others

As a Scot, who speaks Scots (or Lallans as it is sometimes referred to) I am aware of the debate surrounding the status of Scots vis-?-vis English. Is it a dialect of English, a variety of English or a separate language?  As is normal in this sort of discussion, where you stand is often influenced by politics rather than linguistics. 
The answer is net definitive in any way. Before the development of Standard English, there was a patchwork of dialects and languages across England and Scotland reflecting the different immigrations that took place after the departure of the Romans. Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Scandinavians all came in and settled in different parts of the island. The languages were all Germanic in origin, and may have been mutually intelligible to a greater or lesser degree, but led to a mosaic of local languages and speech. Scotland was no different in that the southern part was largely Anglic reflecting its partial incorporation into the Kingdom of Northumbria. Celtic languages were spoken in the South West, West and Highland. Norse was spoken in the far North and in Orkney and Shetland. 
As Scotland and England developed began coalescing into distinct nations, a tendency towards a "standard" form of speech also began. With the English court based in London, a standard for of the language was derived from dialects and varieties of the South East. In Scotland, the court was based in Edinburgh so a different standard was developed. In effect English and Scots diverged at this point. 
As time went on though, English came to have an increasing influence on Scottish speech until after the Union of 1707, the adoption of English became increasingly obvious as Scots was considered a mere dialect and therefore somehow lesser. This continues today where Scots is being eradicated by the prevalence of English, despite a lively and diverse literary culture.
This is very much a brief summary of the arguments, and has nothing to do with meteorites - many, many apologies.

Cheers

Peter Davidson
Curator of Minerals
 
National Museums Collection Centre
National Museums Scotland
242 West Granton Road
Edinburgh
EH5 1JA
Phone: +44 131 247 4283
p.davidson at nms.ac.uk
www.nms.ac.uk
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Forbes
Sent: 12 September 2009 20:14
To: List Meteorite
Subject: [meteorite-list] Scots


Even just the mere thought of contemplating this statement,

"Do you count Scots words as a dialect of English?"

to me seems, well, glaekit.

_________________________________________________________________
Take a peek at other people's pay and perks Check out The Great Australian Pay Check
http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Magnificent Machines: the transport event of the season. National Museum of Flight, 26-27 September. www.nms.ac.uk/magnificentmachines

National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130
This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message.


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 14 08:02:40 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 05:02:40 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list]
 =?windows-1256?q?Largest_known_intact_stone_mete?=
 =?windows-1256?q?orite=3F=FE=FE_=28first_post/testing=29?=
Message-ID: <COL108-W2939A3DECCCDB3E914D7F39BE40@phx.gbl>





Welcome Mel,

Glad to see you here.

Carl


>- Mel (those who know me - please welcome me to the list... I just joined a few 
days ago :-) ) 
IMCA #2975 


_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/


From grf2 at comcast.net  Mon Sep 14 10:06:08 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:06:08 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
	September 14, 2009
References: <d41.4b9123fb.37df0cbd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <44564839C5E84DABB09295D26907F6CA@ASUS>

WOW, nothing like a visual to document the chaotic nature of the event!

--------------------------------------------------
From: <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 11:04 PM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 
14,2009

> http://www.sikhote-alin.org/September_14_2009.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 10:07:47 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:07:47 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Emergency "Fire Sale" - Must Sell Something
	Fast
Message-ID: <e51421550909140707y20ce02e8r1d05b5fe63ebf75b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Folks,

There was a mix-up with my PayPal account (involving debit card
authorizations) and now my PayPal account has a NEGATIVE balance.
This has never happened before and it is jeopardizing the status of my
PayPal account.  I need to pull this account out of the negatives
fast.  So, I am going to offer up some STUPID CHEAP deals that are
only good until this afternoon.

Tagish Lake 60mg - $40 shipped!

Claxton - 200mg - $50 shipped!

Peekskill - 172mg - $40 shipped!

Las Palmas iron - 45 grams - $40 shipped!

Buy them all for $150 shipped!

These prices include shipping to anywhere in the world!

My internet access is limited today, so if you are interested in any
of these offers, you can contact me offlist to inquire, or send PayPal
to "meteoritemike at gmail.com" - first responder gets the goodies. :)

Thanks for looking!

MikeG


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Mon Sep 14 12:37:48 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 11:37:48 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list]
	=?utf-8?q?Largest_known_intact_stone_meteorite?=
	=?utf-8?b?P8Oi4oKswo/DouKCrMKPIChmaXJzdCBwb3N0L3Rlc3Rpbmcp?=
References: <20090914112444.SCZE9.950644.root@web02-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
Message-ID: <C651F1A7AB6D4B2F89FBC31A0B793B86@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Graham, Melanie, List,

    Actually the photo is of the excavation of the largest
Jilin fragment. Back during the Carancas discussion of
whether the "hole" there was a crater or an impact pit,
I looked up all the "landings" of heavy pieces for some
comparisons, including Jilin. The Jilin "hole" is not a
crater. Jilin is not even an impact pit. Jilin is a hole
6 meters deep and less than 2 meters wide with the
long rectangular stone embedded nose-down below
the bottom of the hole. They had to dig out a crater
to get to the stone.

    Here's the top of the original hole (large picture):
http://www.planetarium.montreal.qc.ca/Information/Expo_Meteorites/Agrandissements/fiche_agrandissement_63_a.html

    Here's the excavation afterwards (large picture):
http://www.planetarium.montreal.qc.ca/Information/Expo_Meteorites/Agrandissements/fiche_agrandissement_64_a.html

    You can see it's a vertical shaft, not a pit, not a
crater in the classic width/depth ratio of 3:1.

    If a stone does not fragment, it will be a "ground
penetrator."



Sterling K. Webb
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Melanie Matthews" 
<spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:24 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Largest known intact stone 
meteorite??????? (first post/testing)


> Hi Melanie,
>
> Welcome to the list. As some others have said Jilin is the one. I 
> always wanted to have a piece of it and recently managed to acquire a 
> 1650g fragment, funnily enough only a couple of days after returning 
> from a trip to China. You will find some great photos on the web of 
> the huge hole it produced when it fell.
>
> http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.planetarium.montreal.qc.ca/Information/Expo_Meteorites/Images/fiches/small/image_jilin2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.planetarium.montreal.qc.ca/Information/Expo_Meteorites/Vedettes/jilin_a.html&usg=__6d495tTGXt87SvvmRTVHUJH7rsw=&h=177&w=180&sz=89&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=IDWm2wLb7ORp0M:&tbnh=99&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJilin%2Bmeteorite%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1
>
> Sorry for the long link paste.
>
> If you want to see some pictures of my fragment off list let me know.
>
> Graham Ensor UK
>
> ---- Melanie Matthews <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello list.
>>
>> What is the largest intact stony meteorite ever found (whether an 
>> entire stone or a piece off of it), to date?
>>
>> - Mel (those who know me - please welcome me to the list... I just 
>> joined a few days ago :-) )
>> IMCA #2975
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> New: Messenger sign-in on the MSN homepage
>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677403
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 12:54:56 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 09:54:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Largest known intact stone meteorite?
	Observation!
In-Reply-To: <C651F1A7AB6D4B2F89FBC31A0B793B86@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <312124.59023.qm@web53110.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear List,
  Something occurred to me this afternoon after answering Melanie`s question.  The Jilin and Norton County were both from this past century.  Just think about the potential of all of the "big rock" still laying out in rural areas  waiting to be found.  Anyone have funds?  Dirk Ross...Tokyo



--- On Tue, 9/15/09, Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Largest known intact stone meteorite????? (first post/testing)
> To: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Melanie Matthews" <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com>
> Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 1:37 AM
> Hi, Graham, Melanie, List,
> 
> ???Actually the photo is of the excavation
> of the largest
> Jilin fragment. Back during the Carancas discussion of
> whether the "hole" there was a crater or an impact pit,
> I looked up all the "landings" of heavy pieces for some
> comparisons, including Jilin. The Jilin "hole" is not a
> crater. Jilin is not even an impact pit. Jilin is a hole
> 6 meters deep and less than 2 meters wide with the
> long rectangular stone embedded nose-down below
> the bottom of the hole. They had to dig out a crater
> to get to the stone.
> 
> ???Here's the top of the original hole
> (large picture):
> http://www.planetarium.montreal.qc.ca/Information/Expo_Meteorites/Agrandissements/fiche_agrandissement_63_a.html
> 
> ???Here's the excavation afterwards (large
> picture):
> http://www.planetarium.montreal.qc.ca/Information/Expo_Meteorites/Agrandissements/fiche_agrandissement_64_a.html
> 
> ???You can see it's a vertical shaft, not a
> pit, not a
> crater in the classic width/depth ratio of 3:1.
> 
> ???If a stone does not fragment, it will be
> a "ground
> penetrator."
> 
> 
> 
> Sterling K. Webb
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>;
> "Melanie Matthews" <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Largest known intact stone
> meteorite????? (first post/testing)
> 
> 
> > Hi Melanie,
> > 
> > Welcome to the list. As some others have said Jilin is
> the one. I always wanted to have a piece of it and recently
> managed to acquire a 1650g fragment, funnily enough only a
> couple of days after returning from a trip to China. You
> will find some great photos on the web of the huge hole it
> produced when it fell.
> > 
> > http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.planetarium.montreal.qc.ca/Information/Expo_Meteorites/Images/fiches/small/image_jilin2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.planetarium.montreal.qc.ca/Information/Expo_Meteorites/Vedettes/jilin_a.html&usg=__6d495tTGXt87SvvmRTVHUJH7rsw=&h=177&w=180&sz=89&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=IDWm2wLb7ORp0M:&tbnh=99&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3DJilin%2Bmeteorite%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1
> > 
> > Sorry for the long link paste.
> > 
> > If you want to see some pictures of my fragment off
> list let me know.
> > 
> > Graham Ensor UK
> > 
> > ---- Melanie Matthews <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Hello list.
> >> 
> >> What is the largest intact stony meteorite ever
> found (whether an entire stone or a piece off of it), to
> date?
> >> 
> >> - Mel (those who know me - please welcome me to
> the list... I just joined a few days ago :-) )
> >> IMCA #2975
> >> 
> >>
> _________________________________________________________________
> >> New: Messenger sign-in on the MSN homepage
> >> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677403
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Mon Sep 14 13:00:53 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:00:53 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
Message-ID: <D6802A115C214DE2B2D9453FDE9D4825@ATARIENGINE2>

It seems that not only do comets impact Jupiter,
they may also become moons, temporary or
permanent, of the planet.

Wonder what it would take to get a "comet moon"
for the Earth?

Sterling K. Webb
-------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090914-jupiter-comet.html
Gotcha! Jupiter Turned Comet into a Moon 
By SPACE.com Staff

Jupiter already has an abundance of moons, 
but from 1949 to 1961 it had another, temporary 
satellite in the form of a comet trapped in the 
gas giant's gravitational grip.

Comet 147P/Kushida-Muramatsu was captured 
as a temporary moon of Jupiter in the mid-20th 
century and remained trapped in an irregular 
orbit for about twelve years, astronomers announced 
today.

There are only a handful of known comets where 
this phenomenon of temporary satellite capture 
has occurred and the capture duration in the 
case of Kushida-Muramatsu is the third longest.

The discovery was presented today at the European 
Planetary Science Congress in Potsdam by David 
Asher of Armagh Observatory in Northern Ireland.

An international team led by Katsuhito Ohtsuka 
of the Tokyo Meteor Network modeled the trajectories 
of 18 "quasi-Hilda comets," objects with the potential 
to go through a temporary satellite capture by 
Jupiter that results in them either leaving or joining 
the "Hilda" group of objects in the asteroid belt. 
Most of the cases of temporary capture were flybys, 
where the comets did not complete a full orbit.

But Kushida-Muramatsu was different: The team 
used recent observations tracking the comet over 
nine years to calculate hundreds of possible orbital 
paths for it over the previous century. In all scenarios, 
Kushida-Muramatsu completed two full revolutions 
of Jupiter, making it only the fifth captured orbiter 
to be identified.

"Our results demonstrate some of the routes taken 
by cometary bodies through interplanetary space 
that can allow them either to enter or to escape 
situations where they are in orbit around the planet 
Jupiter," Asher said.

Asteroids and comets can sometimes be distorted 
or fragmented by tidal effects induced by the 
gravitational field of a capturing planet, or may 
even impact with the planet. The most famous 
victim of both these effects was comet D/1993 F2 
(Shoemaker-Levy 9), which was torn apart on 
passing close to Jupiter and whose fragments 
then collided with that planet in 1994. Previous 
computational studies have shown that Shoemaker-Levy 9 
may well have been a quasi-Hilda comet before 
its capture by Jupiter.

"Fortunately for us Jupiter, as the most massive 
planet with the greatest gravity, sucks objects 
towards it more readily than other planets and 
we expect to observe large impacts there more 
often than on Earth. Comet Kushida-Muramatsu 
has escaped from the giant planet and will avoid 
the fate of Shoemaker-Levy 9 for the foreseeable 
future," Asher said.

The object that impacted with Jupiter this July, 
causing the new dark spot discovered by Australian 
amateur astronomer Anthony Wesley, may also 
have been a member of this class, even if it did 
not suffer tidal disruption like Shoemaker-Levy.

"Our work has become very topical again with the 
discovery this July of an expanding debris plume, 
created by the dust from the colliding object, which 
is the evident signature of an impact. The results of 
our study suggest that impacts on Jupiter and 
temporary satellite capture events may happen 
more frequently than we previously expected," 
Asher said.

The team has also confirmed a future moon of 
Jupiter. Comet 111P/Helin-Roman-Crockett, 
which has already orbited Jupiter three times 
between 1967 and 1985, is due to complete six 
laps of the giant planet between 2068 and 2086.




From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 12:54:29 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 09:54:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost impacts at AGU
Message-ID: <905476.22065.qm@web36903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

http://www.georgehoward.net/clovis_comet_at_fall_2009_agu.htm

Would Bolden and Graver fire Weiler and Morrison gently, quietly, and politely now, or do we have to wait longer and have it be far more brutal?

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas


      


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 13:59:53 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 10:59:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
In-Reply-To: <D6802A115C214DE2B2D9453FDE9D4825@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <170966.88311.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Sterling,
it is all but impossible for the earth to acquire a "comet moon" due to the orbital energies involved. Earth's gravity is much too small for this to occur. An asteroidal moon is much more probable and has actually happened. You may remember a few years ago when my colleague, Eric Christensen discovered 6R10DB9, which was Earth's first know "Second Moon". albeit a temporary one.

A good article and orbital diagram can be found on the Sky & Telescope site here:

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/home/7067527.html

Note Al Harris' comment about it being called a true "satellite".


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 10:00 AM
> It seems that not only do comets
> impact Jupiter,
> they may also become moons, temporary or
> permanent, of the planet.
> 
> Wonder what it would take to get a "comet moon"
> for the Earth?
> 
> Sterling K. Webb
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090914-jupiter-comet.html
> Gotcha! Jupiter Turned Comet into a Moon By SPACE.com
> Staff
> 
> Jupiter already has an abundance of moons, but from 1949 to
> 1961 it had another, temporary satellite in the form of a
> comet trapped in the gas giant's gravitational grip.
> 
> Comet 147P/Kushida-Muramatsu was captured as a temporary
> moon of Jupiter in the mid-20th century and remained trapped
> in an irregular orbit for about twelve years, astronomers
> announced today.
> 
> There are only a handful of known comets where this
> phenomenon of temporary satellite capture has occurred and
> the capture duration in the case of Kushida-Muramatsu is the
> third longest.
> 
> The discovery was presented today at the European Planetary
> Science Congress in Potsdam by David Asher of Armagh
> Observatory in Northern Ireland.
> 
> An international team led by Katsuhito Ohtsuka of the Tokyo
> Meteor Network modeled the trajectories of 18 "quasi-Hilda
> comets," objects with the potential to go through a
> temporary satellite capture by Jupiter that results in them
> either leaving or joining the "Hilda" group of objects in
> the asteroid belt. Most of the cases of temporary capture
> were flybys, where the comets did not complete a full
> orbit.
> 
> But Kushida-Muramatsu was different: The team used recent
> observations tracking the comet over nine years to calculate
> hundreds of possible orbital paths for it over the previous
> century. In all scenarios, Kushida-Muramatsu completed two
> full revolutions of Jupiter, making it only the fifth
> captured orbiter to be identified.
> 
> "Our results demonstrate some of the routes taken by
> cometary bodies through interplanetary space that can allow
> them either to enter or to escape situations where they are
> in orbit around the planet Jupiter," Asher said.
> 
> Asteroids and comets can sometimes be distorted or
> fragmented by tidal effects induced by the gravitational
> field of a capturing planet, or may even impact with the
> planet. The most famous victim of both these effects was
> comet D/1993 F2 (Shoemaker-Levy 9), which was torn apart on
> passing close to Jupiter and whose fragments then collided
> with that planet in 1994. Previous computational studies
> have shown that Shoemaker-Levy 9 may well have been a
> quasi-Hilda comet before its capture by Jupiter.
> 
> "Fortunately for us Jupiter, as the most massive planet
> with the greatest gravity, sucks objects towards it more
> readily than other planets and we expect to observe large
> impacts there more often than on Earth. Comet
> Kushida-Muramatsu has escaped from the giant planet and will
> avoid the fate of Shoemaker-Levy 9 for the foreseeable
> future," Asher said.
> 
> The object that impacted with Jupiter this July, causing
> the new dark spot discovered by Australian amateur
> astronomer Anthony Wesley, may also have been a member of
> this class, even if it did not suffer tidal disruption like
> Shoemaker-Levy.
> 
> "Our work has become very topical again with the discovery
> this July of an expanding debris plume, created by the dust
> from the colliding object, which is the evident signature of
> an impact. The results of our study suggest that impacts on
> Jupiter and temporary satellite capture events may happen
> more frequently than we previously expected," Asher said.
> 
> The team has also confirmed a future moon of Jupiter. Comet
> 111P/Helin-Roman-Crockett, which has already orbited Jupiter
> three times between 1967 and 1985, is due to complete six
> laps of the giant planet between 2068 and 2086.
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From gsac at gmx.net  Mon Sep 14 15:08:22 2009
From: gsac at gmx.net (Alexander Seidel)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 21:08:22 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
In-Reply-To: <170966.88311.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <170966.88311.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090914190822.185570@gmx.net>

> You may remember a few years ago when my colleague, Eric Christensen
> discovered 6R10DB9, which was Earth's first know "Second Moon". albeit a
> temporary one.

Dear Richard,

how did this turn out in the end? Did you/they find out it might have a cross-sectional profile that, via the observed orbit evolution, gave an indication to a man-made object, even identifiable somehow as a rocket booster of some specific launch from the past, or was it nothing but a natural coincidence with a natural object finally...

Just curious,
Alex
Berlin/Germany


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 15:24:45 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:24:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
In-Reply-To: <20090914190822.185570@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <692712.23335.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Alexander,

there were a number of observations made, including photometry, that showed the object was too dense to be a man-made object. I am not sure if spectral analysis was made, but it was clear this was a natural object and not a spacecraft or booster.

An abstract from the American Journal of Physics about it can be found here:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008AmJPh..76..720A

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Alexander Seidel <gsac at gmx.net> wrote:

> From: Alexander Seidel <gsac at gmx.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
> To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>, sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 12:08 PM
> > You may remember a few years ago
> when my colleague, Eric Christensen
> > discovered 6R10DB9, which was Earth's first know
> "Second Moon". albeit a
> > temporary one.
> 
> Dear Richard,
> 
> how did this turn out in the end? Did you/they find out it
> might have a cross-sectional profile that, via the observed
> orbit evolution, gave an indication to a man-made object,
> even identifiable somehow as a rocket booster of some
> specific launch from the past, or was it nothing but a
> natural coincidence with a natural object finally...
> 
> Just curious,
> Alex
> Berlin/Germany
> 


      


From mexicodoug at aim.com  Mon Sep 14 15:33:43 2009
From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:33:43 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
In-Reply-To: <170966.88311.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8CC0389677AF3F5-4548-4CE1@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com>

Cheers Richard, Sterling, List,

"Impossible" and its near variants seem less and less meaningful these 
days... IMO Sterling's original question is a good one better 
understood by the relative probabilities of a comet impact on Earth vs. 
the comet going into orbit, rather than just considering the difficult 
physics. Is it likely to have happened at least once in Earth's 
billions of years of history? Anyway, when Sterling asked "what it 
would take", I think he was already considering the improbability of 
such an event during the fleeting human experience, and such a 
possibility would be nice to contemplate. While it may not have much 
scientific interest in some circles, I am just imagining the celestial 
show Earth would be treated to every night for some time as beautiful 
meteors poured upon Earth without mercy in such a hypothetical event, 
and what breathtaking interactions the Earths Van Allen Belt would 
create ... making tea time under the stars a picturesque fantasy 
painting ...

What of he case of a small comet had an opposition near earth during a 
perihelion, what kind of minimum energy are we talking about to playing 
mad scientist and nudge it in orbit (not impacting). That's a question 
several list members could eat for breakfast.

Then there is the other mostly unrelated greatly hypothetical question 
about probabilities for some reason this reminded me of. What sort of 
ratio of Lunar glass meteorites (vs. stones, melts and the rest of the 
geological zoo) is reasonable to expect to arrive at Earth from what we 
know of Lunar impacts? Would a glass meteorite devoid of volatiles 
shatter into little bits upon Earth entry - better stated, what is the 
probability of a Lunar tektite's meteoric passage to Terra Firma?

Best wishes,
Doug







-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; Sterling K. 
Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:59 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?



Sterling,
it is all but impossible for the earth to acquire a "comet moon" due to 
the
orbital energies involved. Earth's gravity is much too small for this 
to occur.
An asteroidal moon is much more probable and has actually happened. You 
may
remember a few years ago when my colleague, Eric Christensen discovered 
6R10DB9,
which was Earth's first know "Second Moon". albeit a temporary one.

A good article and orbital diagram can be found on the Sky & Telescope 
site
here:

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/home/7067527.html

Note Al Harris' comment about it being called a true "satellite".


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> 
wrote:

> From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 10:00 AM
> It seems that not only do comets
> impact Jupiter,
> they may also become moons, temporary or
> permanent, of the planet.
>
> Wonder what it would take to get a "comet moon"
> for the Earth?
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090914-jupiter-comet.html
> Gotcha! Jupiter Turned Comet into a Moon By SPACE.com
> Staff
>
> Jupiter already has an abundance of moons, but from 1949 to
> 1961 it had another, temporary satellite in the form of a
> comet trapped in the gas giant's gravitational grip.
>
> Comet 147P/Kushida-Muramatsu was captured as a temporary
> moon of Jupiter in the mid-20th century and remained trapped
> in an irregular orbit for about twelve years, astronomers
> announced today.
>
> There are only a handful of known comets where this
> phenomenon of temporary satellite capture has occurred and
> the capture duration in the case of Kushida-Muramatsu is the
> third longest.
>
> The discovery was presented today at the European Planetary
> Science Congress in Potsdam by David Asher of Armagh
> Observatory in Northern Ireland.
>
> An international team led by Katsuhito Ohtsuka of the Tokyo
> Meteor Network modeled the trajectories of 18 "quasi-Hilda
> comets," objects with the potential to go through a
> temporary satellite capture by Jupiter that results in them
> either leaving or joining the "Hilda" group of objects in
> the asteroid belt. Most of the cases of temporary capture
> were flybys, where the comets did not complete a full
> orbit.
>
> But Kushida-Muramatsu was different: The team used recent
> observations tracking the comet over nine years to calculate
> hundreds of possible orbital paths for it over the previous
> century. In all scenarios, Kushida-Muramatsu completed two
> full revolutions of Jupiter, making it only the fifth
> captured orbiter to be identified.
>
> "Our results demonstrate some of the routes taken by
> cometary bodies through interplanetary space that can allow
> them either to enter or to escape situations where they are
> in orbit around the planet Jupiter," Asher said.
>
> Asteroids and comets can sometimes be distorted or
> fragmented by tidal effects induced by the gravitational
> field of a capturing planet, or may even impact with the
> planet. The most famous victim of both these effects was
> comet D/1993 F2 (Shoemaker-Levy 9), which was torn apart on
> passing close to Jupiter and whose fragments then collided
> with that planet in 1994. Previous computational studies
> have shown that Shoemaker-Levy 9 may well have been a
> quasi-Hilda comet before its capture by Jupiter.
>
> "Fortunately for us Jupiter, as the most massive planet
> with the greatest gravity, sucks objects towards it more
> readily than other planets and we expect to observe large
> impacts there more often than on Earth. Comet
> Kushida-Muramatsu has escaped from the giant planet and will
> avoid the fate of Shoemaker-Levy 9 for the foreseeable
> future," Asher said.
>
> The object that impacted with Jupiter this July, causing
> the new dark spot discovered by Australian amateur
> astronomer Anthony Wesley, may also have been a member of
> this class, even if it did not suffer tidal disruption like
> Shoemaker-Levy.
>
> "Our work has become very topical again with the discovery
> this July of an expanding debris plume, created by the dust
> from the colliding object, which is the evident signature of
> an impact. The results of our study suggest that impacts on
> Jupiter and temporary satellite capture events may happen
> more frequently than we previously expected," Asher said.
>
> The team has also confirmed a future moon of Jupiter. Comet
> 111P/Helin-Roman-Crockett, which has already orbited Jupiter
> three times between 1967 and 1985, is due to complete six
> laps of the giant planet between 2068 and 2086.
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 15:47:53 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:47:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
In-Reply-To: <8CC0389677AF3F5-4548-4CE1@webmail-m089.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <691819.4550.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

As I said in a previous message, wait for the qualifier!

Thanks Doug.


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com> wrote:

> From: Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
> To: damoclid at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net
> Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 12:33 PM
> Cheers Richard, Sterling, List,
> 
> "Impossible" and its near variants seem less and less
> meaningful these days... IMO Sterling's original question is
> a good one better understood by the relative probabilities
> of a comet impact on Earth vs. the comet going into orbit,
> rather than just considering the difficult physics. Is it
> likely to have happened at least once in Earth's billions of
> years of history? Anyway, when Sterling asked "what it would
> take", I think he was already considering the improbability
> of such an event during the fleeting human experience, and
> such a possibility would be nice to contemplate. While it
> may not have much scientific interest in some circles, I am
> just imagining the celestial show Earth would be treated to
> every night for some time as beautiful meteors poured upon
> Earth without mercy in such a hypothetical event, and what
> breathtaking interactions the Earths Van Allen Belt would
> create ... making tea time under the stars a picturesque
> fantasy painting ...
> 
> What of he case of a small comet had an opposition near
> earth during a perihelion, what kind of minimum energy are
> we talking about to playing mad scientist and nudge it in
> orbit (not impacting). That's a question several list
> members could eat for breakfast.
> 
> Then there is the other mostly unrelated greatly
> hypothetical question about probabilities for some reason
> this reminded me of. What sort of ratio of Lunar glass
> meteorites (vs. stones, melts and the rest of the geological
> zoo) is reasonable to expect to arrive at Earth from what we
> know of Lunar impacts? Would a glass meteorite devoid of
> volatiles shatter into little bits upon Earth entry - better
> stated, what is the probability of a Lunar tektite's
> meteoric passage to Terra Firma?
> 
> Best wishes,
> Doug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> To: Meteorite List <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>;
> Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Sent: Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:59 pm
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
> 
> 
> 
> Sterling,
> it is all but impossible for the earth to acquire a "comet
> moon" due to the
> orbital energies involved. Earth's gravity is much too
> small for this to occur.
> An asteroidal moon is much more probable and has actually
> happened. You may
> remember a few years ago when my colleague, Eric
> Christensen discovered 6R10DB9,
> which was Earth's first know "Second Moon". albeit a
> temporary one.
> 
> A good article and orbital diagram can be found on the Sky
> & Telescope site
> here:
> 
> http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/home/7067527.html
> 
> Note Al Harris' comment about it being called a true
> "satellite".
> 
> 
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
> 
> 
> --- On Mon, 9/14/09, Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
> > To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 10:00 AM
> > It seems that not only do comets
> > impact Jupiter,
> > they may also become moons, temporary or
> > permanent, of the planet.
> > 
> > Wonder what it would take to get a "comet moon"
> > for the Earth?
> > 
> > Sterling K. Webb
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090914-jupiter-comet.html
> > Gotcha! Jupiter Turned Comet into a Moon By SPACE.com
> > Staff
> > 
> > Jupiter already has an abundance of moons, but from
> 1949 to
> > 1961 it had another, temporary satellite in the form
> of a
> > comet trapped in the gas giant's gravitational grip.
> > 
> > Comet 147P/Kushida-Muramatsu was captured as a
> temporary
> > moon of Jupiter in the mid-20th century and remained
> trapped
> > in an irregular orbit for about twelve years,
> astronomers
> > announced today.
> > 
> > There are only a handful of known comets where this
> > phenomenon of temporary satellite capture has occurred
> and
> > the capture duration in the case of Kushida-Muramatsu
> is the
> > third longest.
> > 
> > The discovery was presented today at the European
> Planetary
> > Science Congress in Potsdam by David Asher of Armagh
> > Observatory in Northern Ireland.
> > 
> > An international team led by Katsuhito Ohtsuka of the
> Tokyo
> > Meteor Network modeled the trajectories of 18
> "quasi-Hilda
> > comets," objects with the potential to go through a
> > temporary satellite capture by Jupiter that results in
> them
> > either leaving or joining the "Hilda" group of objects
> in
> > the asteroid belt. Most of the cases of temporary
> capture
> > were flybys, where the comets did not complete a full
> > orbit.
> > 
> > But Kushida-Muramatsu was different: The team used
> recent
> > observations tracking the comet over nine years to
> calculate
> > hundreds of possible orbital paths for it over the
> previous
> > century. In all scenarios, Kushida-Muramatsu completed
> two
> > full revolutions of Jupiter, making it only the fifth
> > captured orbiter to be identified.
> > 
> > "Our results demonstrate some of the routes taken by
> > cometary bodies through interplanetary space that can
> allow
> > them either to enter or to escape situations where
> they are
> > in orbit around the planet Jupiter," Asher said.
> > 
> > Asteroids and comets can sometimes be distorted or
> > fragmented by tidal effects induced by the
> gravitational
> > field of a capturing planet, or may even impact with
> the
> > planet. The most famous victim of both these effects
> was
> > comet D/1993 F2 (Shoemaker-Levy 9), which was torn
> apart on
> > passing close to Jupiter and whose fragments then
> collided
> > with that planet in 1994. Previous computational
> studies
> > have shown that Shoemaker-Levy 9 may well have been a
> > quasi-Hilda comet before its capture by Jupiter.
> > 
> > "Fortunately for us Jupiter, as the most massive
> planet
> > with the greatest gravity, sucks objects towards it
> more
> > readily than other planets and we expect to observe
> large
> > impacts there more often than on Earth. Comet
> > Kushida-Muramatsu has escaped from the giant planet
> and will
> > avoid the fate of Shoemaker-Levy 9 for the
> foreseeable
> > future," Asher said.
> > 
> > The object that impacted with Jupiter this July,
> causing
> > the new dark spot discovered by Australian amateur
> > astronomer Anthony Wesley, may also have been a member
> of
> > this class, even if it did not suffer tidal disruption
> like
> > Shoemaker-Levy.
> > 
> > "Our work has become very topical again with the
> discovery
> > this July of an expanding debris plume, created by the
> dust
> > from the colliding object, which is the evident
> signature of
> > an impact. The results of our study suggest that
> impacts on
> > Jupiter and temporary satellite capture events may
> happen
> > more frequently than we previously expected," Asher
> said.
> > 
> > The team has also confirmed a future moon of Jupiter.
> Comet
> > 111P/Helin-Roman-Crockett, which has already orbited
> Jupiter
> > three times between 1967 and 1985, is due to complete
> six
> > laps of the giant planet between 2068 and 2086.
> > 
> > 
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 


      


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 15:52:19 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 12:52:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Katsuhito Ohtsuka, Japan in News!!!!
Message-ID: <514363.39903.qm@web53107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

 Dear List and Katsuhito,

  Great Work!!!!  Congrats!!    http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/

Jupiter Turned Comet Into "Moon" for 12 Years
 

National Geographic
... comet 147P/Kushida-Muramatsu and held it in orbit until 1961, according to an international team led by Katsuhito Ohtsuka of the Tokyo Meteor Network. ...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/09/090914-jupiter-moon-comet.html

Dirk Ross...Tokyo 


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Mon Sep 14 15:56:23 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 14:56:23 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
References: <170966.88311.qm@web33906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<20090914190822.185570@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <552E78D87D1B42898A0362CE8470A261@ATARIENGINE2>

    It got a Minor Planet number 2006 RH120,
but so did J002E3, which seems to be a Saturn
booster...

    That fount of all knowledge, the Wikipedia, says:
"However, later analysis shows the body is not affected
by the pressures of solar radiation and must be a
dense rocky body or at least regularly shaped. One
hypothesis is that the object is a piece of lunar rock
ejected by an impact. '6R10DB9' was the Catalina
Sky Survey's own discovery designation for this object,
which usually would only be used on the MPC's NEO
Confirmation Page (NEOCP) until an IAU designation
was applied, if the object was classified as a minor object.
It was added on September 14 to the NEOCP and
subsequently removed with the explanation that it
'was not a minor planet.' However, the object was
later confirmed to be a minor planet."

http://www.birtwhistle.org/Gallery6R10DB9.htm
"The Spacewatch II 1.8-m and the Mt. Lemmon 1.5-m
reflectors in Arizona observed it during the period
11 - 17 December 2006 when it was between 2 and
3 LD, shining at magnitudes between 19 and 20.
These observations allowed the orbit to be improved
enough to be reasonably certain that there had been
close approaches to Earth as far back as October 1958.
By perigee in early January 2007 it was fading fast as
it approached conjunction with the Sun and was not
observed."

Obviously, there were no Big Boosters in October
1958, only a year after Sputnik!

Then there were observations that said the rotation
period was only 2.75 minutes and the brightness
variation was 1.25 magnitude which makes it sound
like a booster stage again.

Then, this guy:
http://home.gwi.net/~pluto/mpecs/6r1.htm
says "the area/mass ratio is way too low to be a rocket
booster. If the object is two or three meters across, it
would have a mass of a few tons, about what a low-density
rock might have. I hate to say this, because it seems so
implausible... but this looks a heck of a lot like a natural
object."

Not much of a Moon, hard to plant a flag on, awkward
to walk around, no place to put the barbeque... If we're
going to have a second Moon, I want something better
than this.


Sterling K. Webb
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alexander Seidel" <gsac at gmx.net>
To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>; 
<sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?


>> You may remember a few years ago when my colleague, Eric Christensen
>> discovered 6R10DB9, which was Earth's first know "Second Moon". 
>> albeit a
>> temporary one.
>
> Dear Richard,
>
> how did this turn out in the end? Did you/they find out it might have 
> a cross-sectional profile that, via the observed orbit evolution, gave 
> an indication to a man-made object, even identifiable somehow as a 
> rocket booster of some specific launch from the past, or was it 
> nothing but a natural coincidence with a natural object finally...
>
> Just curious,
> Alex
> Berlin/Germany
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 16:20:47 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:20:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
In-Reply-To: <552E78D87D1B42898A0362CE8470A261@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <914027.91843.qm@web33901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks for doing the extra research Sterling. Agreed that a rock of a more substantial size would be more satisfying, but it is still the first "second moon" known.

That was an interesting period for CSS. I picked up another close approacher that was later shown to probably be man-made and Eric again found another man-made object that very likely could be "Snoopy", Apollo 10's Lunar Module's ascent stage, which is now in heliocentric orbit...


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


--- On Mon, 9/14/09, Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
> To: "Alexander Seidel" <gsac at gmx.net>, "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 12:56 PM
> ???It got a Minor
> Planet number 2006 RH120,
> but so did J002E3, which seems to be a Saturn
> booster...
> 
> ???That fount of all knowledge, the
> Wikipedia, says:
> "However, later analysis shows the body is not affected
> by the pressures of solar radiation and must be a
> dense rocky body or at least regularly shaped. One
> hypothesis is that the object is a piece of lunar rock
> ejected by an impact. '6R10DB9' was the Catalina
> Sky Survey's own discovery designation for this object,
> which usually would only be used on the MPC's NEO
> Confirmation Page (NEOCP) until an IAU designation
> was applied, if the object was classified as a minor
> object.
> It was added on September 14 to the NEOCP and
> subsequently removed with the explanation that it
> 'was not a minor planet.' However, the object was
> later confirmed to be a minor planet."
> 
> http://www.birtwhistle.org/Gallery6R10DB9.htm
> "The Spacewatch II 1.8-m and the Mt. Lemmon 1.5-m
> reflectors in Arizona observed it during the period
> 11 - 17 December 2006 when it was between 2 and
> 3 LD, shining at magnitudes between 19 and 20.
> These observations allowed the orbit to be improved
> enough to be reasonably certain that there had been
> close approaches to Earth as far back as October 1958.
> By perigee in early January 2007 it was fading fast as
> it approached conjunction with the Sun and was not
> observed."
> 
> Obviously, there were no Big Boosters in October
> 1958, only a year after Sputnik!
> 
> Then there were observations that said the rotation
> period was only 2.75 minutes and the brightness
> variation was 1.25 magnitude which makes it sound
> like a booster stage again.
> 
> Then, this guy:
> http://home.gwi.net/~pluto/mpecs/6r1.htm
> says "the area/mass ratio is way too low to be a rocket
> booster. If the object is two or three meters across, it
> would have a mass of a few tons, about what a low-density
> rock might have. I hate to say this, because it seems so
> implausible... but this looks a heck of a lot like a
> natural
> object."
> 
> Not much of a Moon, hard to plant a flag on, awkward
> to walk around, no place to put the barbeque... If we're
> going to have a second Moon, I want something better
> than this.
> 
> 
> Sterling K. Webb
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Seidel"
> <gsac at gmx.net>
> To: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>;
> <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>;
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Catch A Comet?
> 
> 
> >> You may remember a few years ago when my
> colleague, Eric Christensen
> >> discovered 6R10DB9, which was Earth's first know
> "Second Moon". albeit a
> >> temporary one.
> > 
> > Dear Richard,
> > 
> > how did this turn out in the end? Did you/they find
> out it might have a cross-sectional profile that, via the
> observed orbit evolution, gave an indication to a man-made
> object, even identifiable somehow as a rocket booster of
> some specific launch from the past, or was it nothing but a
> natural coincidence with a natural object finally...
> > 
> > Just curious,
> > Alex
> > Berlin/Germany
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> 


      


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 14 16:42:57 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:42:57 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Newspaper gets it right.
Message-ID: <26389016.1252960977479.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Greetings List,

I received this a few days ago... and it's the first article I've read out of popular newspaper (Laguna Beach, CA) where the reporter got the facts reasonably correct.

Agree...or disagree?

http://members.cox.net/countdeiro/Crystal%20Image%20Meteorite%20Story.pdf

Count Deiro


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Mon Sep 14 16:54:45 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:54:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Upcoming Mercury Encounter Presents New
	Opportunities for Magnetometer
Message-ID: <200909142054.n8EKsj7h012061@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/news_room/details.php?id=128

MESSENGER Mission News
August 20, 2009

Upcoming Mercury Encounter Presents New Opportunities for Magnetometer

On September 29, the MESSENGER spacecraft will pass by Mercury for the
third time, flying 141.7 miles above the planet's rocky surface for a
final gravity assist that will enable it to enter orbit about Mercury in
2011. This encounter will also provide new observational opportunities
for MESSENGER's Magnetometer, designed to determine the structure and
origin of Mercury's intrinsic magnetic field.

The comparison of magnetosphere observations from MESSENGER's first
flyby in January 2008 with data from the probe's second pass in October
2008 provided key new insight into the nature of the planet's internal
magnetic field and revealed new features of Mercury's magnetosphere,
explains *Brian Anderson*, of the Johns Hopkins University Applied
Physics Laboratory (APL) in Laurel, Md.

"MESSENGER's first flyby of Mercury and Mariner 10's encounters with the
planet provided data only from Mercury's eastern hemisphere," says
Anderson, MESSENGER's Deputy Project Scientist. "The October 2008 flyby
provided the first measurements from Mercury's western hemisphere, and
scientists learned that the planet's magnetic field is highly symmetric.
This finding is significant for the planet's internal field because it
implies that the dipole is even more closely aligned with the planet's
rotation axis than we could conclude before the second flyby."

The probe's third flyby of Mercury next month will take it again over
the planet's western hemisphere, and the observations will be used to
refine the estimate of the planetary magnetic field, Anderson explains.

"The previous flybys yielded significant insight into the dynamics of
Mercury's magnetosphere and its boundaries," Anderson says. "During the
second flyby a plasmoid and a series of traveling compression regions
were observed in Mercury's magnetotail, and a large flux transfer event
was observed at the dayside magnetopause. These observations proved that
the solar wind interaction, under the right circumstances, can drive
intense magnetic reconnection at rates 10 times the rates observed at
Earth."

The behavior during the second flyby was markedly different from that
found in the first flyby, demonstrating the profound influence of the
solar wind environment on Mercury's magnetosphere. "The third flyby is
the last opportunity to survey the magnetotail and magnetopause regions
in the equatorial plane, and the contrast in the system's structure
under different solar wind conditions already observed make it likely
that the third flyby will yield new insights and perhaps more surprises
for the dynamics of this smallest and most highly variable of the solar
system's planetary magnetospheres," Anderson says.

As with the previous two flybys, the Magnetometer will record the
magnetic field at the highest available observation rate of 20 vector
magnetic field samples per second for a period of twelve hours centered
on the time of closest approach. "This observing plan guarantees the
highest possible science return from the encounter and will provide key
observations to guide the magnetic field investigation plan for the
prime orbital phase of the mission," Anderson says.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Berkel Leaves Its Mark*

The crater in the lower left corner of this image
<http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/gallery/sciencePhotos/pics/berkel_three_arrows.png>
is Berkel, recently named for Turkish painter and printmaker Sabri Berkel (1909-1993). 
The crater contains dark material in its center and in a ring immediately
surrounding it. Moreover, Berkel is surrounded by a blanket of bright
ejecta and a system of bright rays. Other craters on Mercury's surface,
such as Basho
<http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/gallery/sciencePhotos/image.php?page=2&gallery_id=2&image_id=183>,
also exhibit both bright rays and dark halos. In contrast, two
neighboring craters in this image (indicated by white arrows) have
bright rays but lack dark halos. Members of the MESSENGER Science Team
are investigating why some craters contain dark material while others do
not, and what that means for the nature and structure of Mercury's
crust. To view other images released over the summer, go online to
http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/gallery/sciencePhotos/index.php.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

MESSENGER (MErcury Surface, Space ENvironment, GEochemistry, and
Ranging) is a NASA-sponsored scientific investigation of the planet
Mercury and the first space mission designed to orbit the planet closest
to the Sun. The MESSENGER spacecraft launched on August 3, 2004, and
after flybys of Earth, Venus, and Mercury will start a yearlong study of
its target planet in March 2011. Dr. Sean C. Solomon, of the Carnegie
Institution of Washington, leads the mission as Principal Investigator. 
The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory  built and 
operates the MESSENGER spacecraft and manages this Discovery-class
mission for NASA.




From moritzkarl at t-online.de  Mon Sep 14 16:32:47 2009
From: moritzkarl at t-online.de (Moritz Karl)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:32:47 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: ebay auctions in less than 24 hours.
Message-ID: <000401ca357a$85d12940$91737bc0$@de>

Dear List,

I have 20 ebay auctions ending tomorrow in less than 24 hours. All of them
are still well below market value.
Those auctions include rarities like Bells, L'Aigle, Messina, Cape York,
Zaragoza and many more.
See them all here:

http://stores.shop.ebay.com/mos-meteorites__W0QQ_armrsZ1

Or see them all through my website:

http://www.m3t3orites.com/ebay.php

Thank you for looking and Good Luck to anyone bidding.
Kind Regards
Moritz Karl
Germany

Visit mo's meteorites at:
http://www.m3t3orites.com





From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 19:13:18 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:13:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost impacts at AGU
In-Reply-To: <488075.81059.qm@web53109.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <301394.43402.qm@web36902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Dirk - 

In 2005 the Congress instructed former NASA Administrator Griffin to establish a detection program down to 150 meters. JPL prepared the report, as instructed. Griffin then refused to supply it to the Congress. (Essentially it was the same as the NRC report released about a month ago, but without the spin.)

It appears that Weiler and Morrison supported Griffin in doing this; there were no comments even off the record indicating otherwise. 

>From what I know of them from earlier interviews, their reasons for doing so were that Weiler did so because he did not think the job was NASA's, and Morrison because he consistently has underestimated impact frequency, as for him comets do not hit. The fact that the detection assignment went to JPL instead of Ames and Arizona may also play a role here.

In any case, if Weiler or Morrison have changed their views it is long past time for them to have expressed them publicly.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

--- On Mon, 9/14/09, drtanuki <drtanuki at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: drtanuki <drtanuki at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lost impacts at AGU
> To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 12:05 PM
> EP please expound; Most of us do not
> have the inside story to understand you question
> below.  Thank you!   Dirk...Tokyo
> 
> --- On Tue, 9/15/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Lost impacts at AGU
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 1:54 AM
> > Hi all - 
> > 
> > http://www.georgehoward.net/clovis_comet_at_fall_2009_agu.htm
> > 
> > Would Bolden and Graver fire Weiler and Morrison
> gently,
> > quietly, and politely now, or do we have to wait
> longer and
> > have it be far more brutal?
> > 
> > E.P. Grondine
> > Man and Impact in the Americas
> > 
> > 
> >       
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> 


      


From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 19:59:48 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:59:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Introducing the Enigma Stone
Message-ID: <868152.53706.qm@web30706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,

I would like to take this opportunity to announce 
a new meteorite referred to as "The Enigma Stone."  The provisional name is NWA 
5743.  I have no idea what the Nom Com will call this fantastic meteorite since it contains portions 
of at least 3 different achondrites, seemingly unrelated!
 
I listed all 6 of the Enigma Stone specimens at once, check it out.
 
The Enigma Stone:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200382579120
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200382580991
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140345201373
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140345202003
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140345202846
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200382586133


I also have several excellent auctions that are due to end tomorrow 
afternoon.  Thousands of dollars worth of material was loaded and started at 
just 99 cents while others have the make-offer option enabled.

All of these items are definitely worth a look as there is treasure 
everywhere!

All Auctions Can Be Found At This link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ

PRICE 
REDUCED: NWA 2626 Martian Shergottite, MAIN MASS - DO NOT BE AFRAID TO 
MAKE 
AN OFFER AS I WILL SELL BELOW MY COSTS:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200374037684

RARE 
MAIN MASSES:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200374036148
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200374036909
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200374037865
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200374038095
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200374038314

And 
many more fine examples worth looking at can be found at this link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ


Thank 
you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck.


Best 
Regards,

------------------------------------
Adam Hupe
The Hupe 
Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
raremeteorites at yahoo.com


From leighannedelray at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 22:15:05 2009
From: leighannedelray at gmail.com (Leigh Anne DelRay)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:15:05 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: auctions - oriented Sikhote-Alin w/ Stamp, Taza,
	Henbury, Gibeon 	Crystal, Campo, Moldavite, LDG more....
Message-ID: <5e97e2850909141915j4c8e2147s5af20cb275b01b6d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I have auctions up that will be ending on Sunday night.

I have a lovely oriented Sikhote-Alin with a Sikhote-Alin Stamp - unused - mint:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sikhote-Alin-Iron-Meteorite-collectible-Russian-Stamp_W0QQitemZ260475392854QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca58b1356&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

Also, a nice little Taza:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NICE-ORIENTED-Taza-Iron-Meteorite-rollover-lips-NWA-859_W0QQitemZ250496748326QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a52c50b26&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

And a cute little Henbury that looks like it has a finger sticking up
saying "We're number one"

http://cgi.ebay.com/Henbury-Iron-Meteorite-Australia-Complete-Individual-NR_W0QQitemZ260475391882QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ca58b0f8a&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

And a super cute little Gibeon Crystal here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibeon-Iron-Meteorite-Crystal-Complete-Individual-NR_W0QQitemZ250496747476QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a52c507d4&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

And there are many others, Libyan desert glass, Moldavite, Fulgurite,
Campo, Mundrabilla and much more, they can all be seen here:

http://shop.ebay.com/callistodesigns/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=


I hope all of those links work and are right, I never know with this
list, sometimes I see these e-mails I send out and sometimes, they are
just lost in cyber space, and they never appear in the inbox, it is a
mystery really..

Anyway, Have a good night my meteorite fellas (and gals),

Leigh Anne DelRay
www.CallistoImages.com


From bristolia at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 14 22:39:56 2009
From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 19:39:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Katsuhito Ohtsuka, Japan in News!!!!
Message-ID: <636519.94765.qm@web36205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dirk Ross wrote:

"Dear List and Katsuhito, 

Great Work!!!! Congrats!! http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ 

Jupiter Turned Comet Into "Moon" for 12 Years 

National Geographic 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/09/090914-jupiter-moon-comet.html "

The paper about it is:

Ohtsuka, K., T. Ito, M. Yoshikawa, D. J. Asher, H. Arakida, 
2009, Quasi-Hilda Comet 147P/Kushida-Muramatsu: Another 
long temporary satellite capture by Jupiter. arXiv:0808.2277v1 
[astro-ph], 

http://arxiv.org/abs/0808.2277

Another article:

Jupiter captures a comet, briefly, Christian Science Monitor
by Pete Spotts

http://features.csmonitor.com/discoveries/2009/09/14/jupiter-captures-a-comet-briefly/

Captured comet becomes moon of Jupiter by Kerensa McElroy, Cosmos Online 

http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/3003/captured-comet-becomes-moon-jupiter

Yours,

Paul H.


      


From spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 14 23:59:06 2009
From: spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com (Melanie Matthews)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:59:06 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list]
 =?windows-1256?q?Largest_known_intact_stone_mete?=
 =?windows-1256?q?orite=3F=FE=FE_=28first_post/testing=29?=
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890909141352j1f9b18acj20cd8c55f0c3b5a1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU137-W10A34929FC02DAFBB7EE82D6E40@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890909140042o35cf3864r1048f6f7cdef9a78@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU137-W2497CF3EDB979A79B26EAAD6E40@phx.gbl> 
	<93aaac890909141352j1f9b18acj20cd8c55f0c3b5a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU137-W13FDA7674BE02768C43BE3D6E30@phx.gbl>


Hi Jason. 

Well, one reason is that (being Canadian) I want to eventually collect (and from which to take off slices or fragments for resell) most of the Canadian meteorites (new, historic and rare). At the moment, I only have a PS of Abee and a frag of Tagish Lake.. Also, I was put in touch with someone who offered me a good sized stone of BC,, and it seems it seems that pretty much of what remained that hasn't been sent to locked up in institutions/museums, now has been sold out to collectors. I haven't seen BC offered on ebay or anywhere else on the net for quite a while now... 

Regards 
- Mel 

----------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 13:52:54 -0700
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Largest known intact stone meteorite??? (first post/testing)
> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
> To: spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com
>
> Hello Mel,
> I can see Jilin and Norton County as historic meteorites, but...why
> Buzzard Coulee?
> Curious...
> Regards,
> Jason
>
> 2009/9/14 Melanie Matthews :
>>
>> Thank you all for your responses, info and welcomes!
>>
>> I'd like to get myself a piece(s) of Jilin and Norton County sometime... for the next while I'm saving up my funds for a Buzzard Coulee stone..
>>
>> Regards
>> - Mel
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 00:42:42 -0700
>>> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Largest known intact stone meteorite??? (first post/testing)
>>>
>>> Hello Melanie,
>>> The few largest stony meteorites yet found are:
>>> 1) The Jilin meteorite from China. It weighs 1,770 kg.
>>> 2) Norton County, from New Mexico, USA, which weighs 1,073 kg.
>>> After these two, the list gets a little confused with large stones
>>> that were found fragmented, etc. I'd have added them, but my mind
>>> drifted to Carancas and I had no idea where to put it...
>>> Regards,
>>> Jason
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:16 AM, Melanie Matthews
>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello list.
>>>>
>>>> What is the largest intact stony meteorite ever found (whether an entire stone or a piece off of it), to date?
>>>>
>>>> - Mel (those who know me - please welcome me to the list... I just joined a few days ago :-) )
>>>> IMCA #2975
>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> New: Messenger sign-in on the MSN homepage
>>>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677403
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> New! Open Messenger faster on the MSN homepage
>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677405
>>

_________________________________________________________________
New: Messenger sign-in on the MSN homepage
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677403


From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 15 03:32:53 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 00:32:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
	September 14, 2009
In-Reply-To: <d41.4b9123fb.37df0cbd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <788707.96812.qm@web33208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

charred wood? I have seen black staining around steel jacketed bullets that looks like charred wood, if they have been in the tree for several years. But fresh bullet holes even from 22-250 bullets at 4000 fps are clean without charring. I thought meteorites were cold on impact? can anyone explain charring  from a 70 gram object that impacted at less than 300 fps? at 200 fps it would have bounced off the tree and at 350fps torn it in half.

   Its still a very cool looking example of a meteorite.
Cheers
Steve

--- On Sun, 9/13/09, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com> wrote:

> From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 14, 2009
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 10:04 PM
> http://www.sikhote-alin.org/September_14_2009.html?
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From impaktnamen at gmx.de  Tue Sep 15 07:57:03 2009
From: impaktnamen at gmx.de (impaktnamen at gmx.de)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:57:03 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20090915115703.168540@gmx.net>

hallo list,
in our compilation "www.impaktnamen at gmx.de" (names of meteorites, impacts/craters, fireballs/bolides/meteors, tektites) we have added to our homepage ("startseite") a vademecum (how to use the compilation; in english). Try it, we hope it will facilitate the use of our compilation.
Monika Kumlehn de Mamani & Ingrid Grambow 
-- 
GRATIS f?r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01

-- 
GRATIS f?r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 15 08:03:18 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 05:03:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Impaktnamen website
In-Reply-To: <20090915115703.168540@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <108327.74808.qm@web53107.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear Monika, Ingrid and List,

Thank you Monika and Ingrid!

  The Impaktnamen site is at:

http://www.impaktnamen.de/

Dirk Ross...Tokyo

--- On Tue, 9/15/09, impaktnamen at gmx.de <impaktnamen at gmx.de> wrote:

> From: impaktnamen at gmx.de <impaktnamen at gmx.de>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject)
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 8:57 PM
> hallo list,
> in our compilation "www.impaktnamen at gmx.de"
> (names of meteorites, impacts/craters,
> fireballs/bolides/meteors, tektites) we have added to our
> homepage ("startseite") a vademecum (how to use the
> compilation; in english). Try it, we hope it will facilitate
> the use of our compilation.
> Monika Kumlehn de Mamani & Ingrid Grambow 
> -- 
> GRATIS f?r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
> 
> -- 
> GRATIS f?r alle GMX-Mitglieder: Die maxdome Movie-FLAT!
> Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome01
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


From bristolia at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 15 09:06:45 2009
From: bristolia at yahoo.com (Paul)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 06:06:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Japanese Lunar Mission Provides Data About Moon's
	Origin
Message-ID: <278373.41075.qm@web36203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Japanese Lunar Mission Provides a Glimpse at How the 
Moon Took Shape by Naiomi Solomom, September 11, 2009 
Ethiopian Review. 

http://www.ethiopianreview.com/scitech/

Japanese Lunar Mission Provides a Glimpse at How the 
Moon Took Shape. Data from the recently retired Kaguya 
spacecraft support the notion that the moon's crust 
congealed from an ocean of magma by John Matson,
Scientific American, 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=moon-magma-ocean

The paper is:

Ohtake, M. T. Matsunaga, J. Haruyama, Y. Yokota, T. 
Morota, C. Honda, Y. Ogawa, M. Torii, H. Miyamoto, T. 
Arai, N. Hirata, A. Iwasaki, R. Nakamura, T. Hiroi, 
T. Sugihara, H. Takeda1, H. Otake, C. M. Pieters, K. 
Saiki, K. Kitazato, M. Abe, N. Asada, H. Demura, Y. 
Yamaguchi, S. Sasaki1, S. Kodama, J. Terazono, M. 
Shirao, A. Yamaji, S. Minami, H. Akiyama and J.-L. 
Josset, 2009, The global distribution of pure 
anorthosite on the Moon. Nature. vol. 461, no. 7261,
pp. 236-240 doi:10.1038/nature08317 

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v461/n7261/abs/nature08317.html

Yours,

Paul H.



      


From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Tue Sep 15 08:58:12 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:58:12 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Charred wood on sikhote tree
Message-ID: <578034752-1253019589-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1256658517-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

It appears my post didn't make it to the list. The charred wood is actually on the exterior of the log, not behind the meteorite. That detail was lost in translation. My apologies.
I assume (and maybe this is a large assumption) that the wood was charred from the impact cratering events at Ground Zero.  You can see these carbonized areas on the photos if you look carefully.
http://www.sikhote-alin.org/September_14_2009.html

Matt
----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA


From almitt at kconline.com  Tue Sep 15 10:05:57 2009
From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:05:57 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September
	14, 2009
In-Reply-To: <788707.96812.qm@web33208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <788707.96812.qm@web33208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <8AF3B1B4004343F5A3FFDC43A4B90385@StarmanPC>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:32 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September 
14, 2009


charred wood? I have seen black staining around steel jacketed bullets that 
looks like charred wood, if they have been in the tree for several years. 
But fresh bullet holes even from 22-250 bullets at 4000 fps are clean 
without charring. I thought meteorites were cold on impact? can anyone 
explain charring  from a 70 gram object that impacted at less than 300 fps? 
at 200 fps it would have bounced off the tree and at 350fps torn it in half.

   Its still a very cool looking example of a meteorite.
Cheers
Steve

--- On Sun, 9/13/09, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com> wrote:

> From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 
> 14, 2009
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 10:04 PM
> http://www.sikhote-alin.org/September_14_2009.html
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list





From almitt at kconline.com  Tue Sep 15 10:09:09 2009
From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:09:09 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September
	14, 2009
In-Reply-To: <788707.96812.qm@web33208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <788707.96812.qm@web33208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <527CF84987E24C53989444C2E890D416@StarmanPC>

Hi Steve and all,

Opps didn't get my message in last post.

Not sure how fast the Sikhote fall came in at but it was a very low altitude
breakup and probably had quite a lot of it's cosmic velocity at impact so
the meteorites may have impacted at a fairly high velocity. I am sure that
someone has some statistics based on the fall which left over 120 impact
craters.

Some of these _may_ have been pretty warm and might have charred trees due
to the friction of embedding themselves. Seems like they would have done
more damage as you suggested though so maybe there are some other factors
(dynamics) to consider. Best!

--AL Mitterling

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:32 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September
14, 2009


charred wood? I have seen black staining around steel jacketed bullets that
looks like charred wood, if they have been in the tree for several years.
But fresh bullet holes even from 22-250 bullets at 4000 fps are clean
without charring. I thought meteorites were cold on impact? can anyone
explain charring  from a 70 gram object that impacted at less than 300 fps?
at 200 fps it would have bounced off the tree and at 350fps torn it in half.

   Its still a very cool looking example of a meteorite.
Cheers
Steve




From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Tue Sep 15 10:15:46 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:15:46 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 15,
	2009
Message-ID: <cf0.633a0bb1.37e0fb92@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_15_2009.html  



From almitt at kconline.com  Tue Sep 15 09:59:44 2009
From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:59:44 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September
	14, 2009
In-Reply-To: <788707.96812.qm@web33208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <788707.96812.qm@web33208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <915A2B65A0A2481F93EF2DBB2A341BE9@StarmanPC>

Hi Steve and all,

Not sure how fast the Sikhote fall came in at but it was a very low altitude 
breakup and probably had quite a lot of it's cosmic velocity at impact so 
the meteorites may have impacted at a fairly high velocity. I am sure that 
someone has some statistics based on the fall which left over 120 impact 
craters.

Some of these _may_ have been pretty warm and might have charred trees due 
to the friction of embedding themselves. Seems like they would have done 
more damage as you suggested though so maybe there are some other factors 
(dynamics) to consider. Best!

--AL Mitterling

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:32 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September 
14, 2009


charred wood? I have seen black staining around steel jacketed bullets that 
looks like charred wood, if they have been in the tree for several years. 
But fresh bullet holes even from 22-250 bullets at 4000 fps are clean 
without charring. I thought meteorites were cold on impact? can anyone 
explain charring  from a 70 gram object that impacted at less than 300 fps? 
at 200 fps it would have bounced off the tree and at 350fps torn it in half.

   Its still a very cool looking example of a meteorite.
Cheers
Steve 




From stm at bellsouth.net  Tue Sep 15 10:28:24 2009
From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:28:24 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day
	-September14, 2009
In-Reply-To: <8AF3B1B4004343F5A3FFDC43A4B90385@StarmanPC>
References: <788707.96812.qm@web33208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<8AF3B1B4004343F5A3FFDC43A4B90385@StarmanPC>
Message-ID: <F735D9D090C643099936C8B0DDEE0B4D@Platinum2>

Could this simply be stains from the iron leaching into the wood over time?
While hunting, I've seen similar black stains around nails that have been in 
boards and trees for a long time in old hunter's deer stands.  I've also 
seen it a million times in old re-milled lumber where you can see the 
original holes from old iron nails - there is usually a black stain around 
each hole.

Regardless, it is agreed that this picture is very cool, and an excellent 
collection piece.

Sean.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "al mitt" <almitt at kconline.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the 
Day -September14, 2009


>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the 
> Day -September 14, 2009
>
>
> charred wood? I have seen black staining around steel jacketed bullets 
> that looks like charred wood, if they have been in the tree for several 
> years. But fresh bullet holes even from 22-250 bullets at 4000 fps are 
> clean without charring. I thought meteorites were cold on impact? can 
> anyone explain charring  from a 70 gram object that impacted at less than 
> 300 fps? at 200 fps it would have bounced off the tree and at 350fps torn 
> it in half.
>
>   Its still a very cool looking example of a meteorite.
> Cheers
> Steve
>
> --- On Sun, 9/13/09, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 
>> 14, 2009
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 10:04 PM
>> http://www.sikhote-alin.org/September_14_2009.html
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From dave at fallingrocks.com  Tue Sep 15 10:42:21 2009
From: dave at fallingrocks.com (Dave Gheesling)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:42:21 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the
	Day-September14, 2009
In-Reply-To: <F735D9D090C643099936C8B0DDEE0B4D@Platinum2>
References: <788707.96812.qm@web33208.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8AF3B1B4004343F5A3FFDC43A4B90385@StarmanPC>
	<F735D9D090C643099936C8B0DDEE0B4D@Platinum2>
Message-ID: <D614D2F304B440498FE33320589591EF@meteorroom>

Sean/All,
Good point. Also, I shot Matt an offline note from a web interface when this
image was first posted, but couldn't reach the full list at that moment.  To
reiterate, KILLER piece, Matt!
All best,
Dave
www.fallingrocks.com

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Sean T.
Murray
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the
Day-September14, 2009

Could this simply be stains from the iron leaching into the wood over time?
While hunting, I've seen similar black stains around nails that have been in
boards and trees for a long time in old hunter's deer stands.  I've also
seen it a million times in old re-milled lumber where you can see the
original holes from old iron nails - there is usually a black stain around
each hole.

Regardless, it is agreed that this picture is very cool, and an excellent
collection piece.

Sean.

----- Original Message -----
From: "al mitt" <almitt at kconline.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day
-September14, 2009


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day 
> -September 14, 2009
>
>
> charred wood? I have seen black staining around steel jacketed bullets 
> that looks like charred wood, if they have been in the tree for 
> several years. But fresh bullet holes even from 22-250 bullets at 4000 
> fps are clean without charring. I thought meteorites were cold on 
> impact? can anyone explain charring  from a 70 gram object that 
> impacted at less than 300 fps? at 200 fps it would have bounced off 
> the tree and at 350fps torn it in half.
>
>   Its still a very cool looking example of a meteorite.
> Cheers
> Steve
>
> --- On Sun, 9/13/09, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
>> September 14, 2009
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 10:04 PM 
>> http://www.sikhote-alin.org/September_14_2009.html
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
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Meteorite-list mailing list
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From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Tue Sep 15 11:14:29 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:14:29 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of theDay-September14,
	2009
In-Reply-To: <D614D2F304B440498FE33320589591EF@meteorroom>
References: <788707.96812.qm@web33208.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8AF3B1B4004343F5A3FFDC43A4B90385@StarmanPC><F735D9D090C643099936C8B0DDEE0B4D@Platinum2><D614D2F304B440498FE33320589591EF@meteorroom>
Message-ID: <3833363-1253027767-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-843135258-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Thanks David, that means a lot coming from you!
Matt
----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA

-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Gheesling" <dave at fallingrocks.com>

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:42:21 
To: 'Sean T. Murray'<stm at bellsouth.net>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the
	Day-September14, 2009


Sean/All,
Good point. Also, I shot Matt an offline note from a web interface when this
image was first posted, but couldn't reach the full list at that moment.  To
reiterate, KILLER piece, Matt!
All best,
Dave
www.fallingrocks.com

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Sean T.
Murray
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the
Day-September14, 2009

Could this simply be stains from the iron leaching into the wood over time?
While hunting, I've seen similar black stains around nails that have been in
boards and trees for a long time in old hunter's deer stands.  I've also
seen it a million times in old re-milled lumber where you can see the
original holes from old iron nails - there is usually a black stain around
each hole.

Regardless, it is agreed that this picture is very cool, and an excellent
collection piece.

Sean.

----- Original Message -----
From: "al mitt" <almitt at kconline.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day
-September14, 2009


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day 
> -September 14, 2009
>
>
> charred wood? I have seen black staining around steel jacketed bullets 
> that looks like charred wood, if they have been in the tree for 
> several years. But fresh bullet holes even from 22-250 bullets at 4000 
> fps are clean without charring. I thought meteorites were cold on 
> impact? can anyone explain charring  from a 70 gram object that 
> impacted at less than 300 fps? at 200 fps it would have bounced off 
> the tree and at 350fps torn it in half.
>
>   Its still a very cool looking example of a meteorite.
> Cheers
> Steve
>
> --- On Sun, 9/13/09, SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com> wrote:
>
>> From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
>> September 14, 2009
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 10:04 PM 
>> http://www.sikhote-alin.org/September_14_2009.html
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 15 11:18:36 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:18:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) old bob haag catalogs
Message-ID: <653665.44041.qm@web57803.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi list.I am looking to buy any old bob haag catalogs.Please let me know off list if anyone is willing to sell them off list please.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


      


From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Tue Sep 15 11:26:21 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:26:21 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) old bob haag catalogs
Message-ID: <1661381067-1253028480-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1987998614-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Just in case you cannot find hard copies, bob has digital copies here:
http://www.meteorites.com.

It is pretty fun to page through all these and look at his price lists.
Matt
------Original Message------
From: steve arnold
Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) old bob haag catalogs
Sent: Sep 15, 2009 9:18 AM

Hi list.I am looking to buy any old bob haag catalogs.Please let me know off list if anyone is willing to sell them off list please.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


      
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA

From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Sep 15 11:44:41 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:44:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Jupiter Captured Comet for 12 Years in Last Century
Message-ID: <200909151544.n8FFifbS024107@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0909/14comet/

Jupiter captured comet for 12 years in last century
EUROPEAN PLANETARY SCIENCE CONGRESS NEWS RELEASE
September 14, 2009

Comet 147P/Kushida-Muramatsu was captured as a temporary moon of Jupiter
in the mid-20th century and remained trapped in an irregular orbit for
about twelve years.

There are only a handful of known comets where this phenomenon of
temporary satellite capture has occurred and the capture duration in the
case of Kushida-Muramatsu, which orbited Jupiter between 1949 and 1961,
is the third longest. The discovery will be presented at the European
Planetary Science Congress in Potsdam by Dr. David Asher on Monday 14
September.

An international team led by Dr. Katsuhito Ohtsuka modeled the
trajectories of 18 "quasi-Hilda comets", objects with the potential to
go through a temporary satellite capture by Jupiter that results in them
either leaving or joining the "Hilda" group of objects in the asteroid
belt. Most of the cases of temporary capture were flybys, where the
comets did not complete a full orbit. However, Dr. Ohtsuka's team used
recent observations tracking Kushida-Muramatsu over nine years to
calculate hundreds of possible orbital paths for the comet over the
previous century. In all scenarios, Kushida-Muramatsu completed two full
revolutions of Jupiter, making it only the fifth captured orbiter to be
identified.

Dr. Asher said, "Our results demonstrate some of the routes taken by
cometary bodies through interplanetary space that can allow them either
to enter or to escape situations where they are in orbit around the
planet Jupiter."

Asteroids and comets can sometimes be distorted or fragmented by tidal
effects induced by the gravitational field of a capturing planet, or may
even impact with the planet. The most famous victim of both these
effects was comet D/1993 F2 (Shoemaker-Levy 9), which was torn apart on
passing close to Jupiter and whose fragments then collided with that
planet in 1994. Previous computational studies have shown that
Shoemaker-Levy 9 may well have been a quasi-Hilda comet before its
capture by Jupiter.

"Fortunately for us Jupiter, as the most massive planet with the
greatest gravity, sucks objects towards it more readily than other
planets and we expect to observe large impacts there more often than on
Earth. Comet Kushida-Muramatsu has escaped from the giant planet and
will avoid the fate of Shoemaker-Levy 9 for the foreseeable future",
said Dr. Asher.

The object that impacted with Jupiter this July, causing the new dark
spot discovered by Australian amateur astronomer Anthony Wesley, may
also have been a member of this class, even if it did not suffer tidal
disruption like Shoemaker-Levy.

"Our work has become very topical again with the discovery this July of
an expanding debris plume, created by the dust from the colliding
object, which is the evident signature of an impact. The results of our
study suggest that impacts on Jupiter and temporary satellite capture
events may happen more frequently than we previously expected," said Dr.
Asher.

The team has also confirmed a future moon of Jupiter. Comet
111P/Helin-Roman-Crockett, which has already orbited Jupiter three times
between 1967 and 1985, is due to complete six laps of the giant planet
between 2068 and 2086.




From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Sep 15 11:47:37 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 08:47:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Craters on Vesta and Ceres Could Tell Jupiter's Age
Message-ID: <200909151547.n8FFlb1C024982@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0909/14jupiterage/

Craters on Vesta and Ceres could tell Jupiter's age
EUROPEAN PLANETARY SCIENCE CONGRESS NEWS RELEASE
September 14, 2009

Crater patterns on Vesta and Ceres could help pinpoint when Jupiter
began to form during the evolution of the early Solar System. A study
modeling the cratering history of the largest two objects in the
asteroid belt, which are believed to be among the oldest in the Solar
System, indicates that the type and distribution of craters would show
marked changes at different stages of Jupiter's development. Results
will be presented by Dr. Diego Turrini at the European Planetary Science
Congress in Potsdam, Germany, on Monday 14 September.

The study, carried out by scientists at the Italian National Institute
for Astrophysics in Rome, explored the hypothesis that one or both
objects formed during Jupiter's formation by modeling their cratering
histories during the birth of the giant planet. Their simulation
described Jupiter's formation in three stages: an initial accretion of
its core followed by a stage of rapid gas accretion. This is, in turn,
followed by a phase where the gas accretion slows down while the giant
planet reaches its final mass. During the last two phases Jupiter's
gravitational pull starts to affect more and more distant objects. For
each of these phases, the team simulated how Jupiter affected the orbits
of asteroids and comets from the inner and outer Solar System, and the
likelihood of them being moved onto a collision path with Vesta or Ceres.

"We found that the stage of Jupiter's development made a big difference
on the speed of impacts and the origin of potential impactors. When
Jupiter's core approaches its critical mass, it causes a sharp increase
in low-velocity impacts from small, rocky bodies orbiting nearby to
Vesta and Ceres which lead to intense and uniform crater distribution
patterns. These low-speed collisions may have helped Vesta and Ceres
gather mass. Once Jupiter's core has formed and the planet starts to
rapidly accrete gas, it deflects more distant objects onto a collision
course with Ceres and Vesta and the impacts become more energetic.
Although rocky objects from the inner Solar System are the dominant
impactors at this stage, the higher energies of collisions with icy
bodies from the outer Solar System make the biggest mark," said Dr.
Turrini.

The third stage of Jupiter's formation is complicated by a period known
as the Late Heavy Bombardment, which occurred around 3.8 to 4.1 billion
years ago. During this time a significant number of objects, rich in
organic compounds, from the outer Solar System were injected on
planet-crossing orbits with the giant planets and may have reached the
Asteroid Belt. In addition, Jupiter is thought to have migrated in its
orbit around this time, which would have caused an addition flux of
impactors on Vesta and Ceres.

The team will have an opportunity to confirm their results when NASA's
Dawn space mission reaches Vesta in 2011 and then flies on for a further
rendezvous with Ceres in 2015. Dawn will gather information on the
structure and the surface morphology of the two asteroids and send back
high-resolution images of crater patterns.

"If we can see evidence of an underlying intense, uniform crater
pattern, it will support the theory that one or both of these minor
planets formed during the final phases of Jupiter accretion, provided
that they aren't obliterated by the later heavy bombardment. Dawn will
also measure concentrations of organic material, which may give us
further information about the collisional history with organic-rich
objects from the outer Solar System," said Dr. Turrini.



From mikewren at gilanet.com  Tue Sep 15 12:15:29 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:15:29 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Auctions End Tomorrow-Highlights Added-Plus
	Sale On Select Items-Plus Very Special Price On Some Top
	Pieces-This Is A Must See!
Message-ID: <85017522-4F1A-43D9-8394-80369A3D0C3A@gilanet.com>






I Am Only Going To Sell One of these below and after that I will  
withdraw the others at these prices!  They all can be seen in my ebay  
store:

Outstanding HOLBROOK Individual, 415 gram - I will take an offer of  
$5,000.00 for this one-no less. A serious specimen for the right person!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200356012326

ZARAGOZA, Spain, IVA Anomalous, 2770 gram - HUGE Iron Slice - $5,000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200356012338

Big Specimen Of EL HAMMAMI, Mauritania 7,148g - BIGGEST SPECIMEN  
AROUND! $5,000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200356012358

GLORIETA MOUNTAIN, New Mexico, 5,740 gram - A Deal At $12,000.00 -  
This will be a center piece for most collections!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200366353657

Rare & Famous LOS ANGELES, Martian, 8.30g EC - This is a chance of a  
lifetime to acquire such a fine specimen! First $8,000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380213859

Fantastic-Oriented--CHIANG KHAN, Thailand - First $3,000.00 gets this  
one!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381008742

A Beautiful Sikhote-Alin, IIAB Iron, 7568g - YOU WILL NOT FIND A  
SPECIMEN THIS NICE FOR THE PRICE-Except Here! $4500.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200356012373

An Exquisite Portales Valley Individual-399g - A Rare Beauty- First  
$5,000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200356012332

A Beautiful slice of SEYMCHAN, Pal, 357 gram - YOU WILL NOT FIND A  
BETTER ONE FOR THIS PRICE!  First $3000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381008755



ALL AUCTIONS HERE:

http://shop.ebay.com:80/merchant/meteorite-collector_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ




Highlights For This Week's Auctions:  (Some Very Nice Pieces)


Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 411 gram - BIG BIG Individual - This  
is the largest I have to auction!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380667745

(NEW) Ungrouped Ataxite, GRIFFITH, TX, 25.30g - Getting Low on this  
Rarity.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380712111

Seldom Available- AHUMADA, Pallasite, Mexico - Only Specimen I have!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380697806

New Fall- TAMDAKHT, H5, 20g, Individual * IMPORTANT TO NOTE -  
Individuals from this fall are extremely RARE! This one is a beauty.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380700292

Low Total Known Weight-FAIRFIELD, OH, Iron - Super Rare American Iron  
 From Ohio - Only One I have!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380974568

Super Rare HONOLULU, Witnessed Fall, 0.042 g - ONLY ONE I HAVE - LAST  
ONE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380982923

New MAIN MASS- NWA 4947, Eucrite, 18.15 gram - MAIN MASS - MAIN MASS  
Eucrite!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381225491

Hard To Find-BIG ROCK DONGA, Australia, H6 - ONLY ONE I HAVE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381377883

Rare Fall From Kansas-MODOC (1905) - 0.23 g ONLY ONE I HAVE- Very Rare.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381378536

Seldom Available POLUJAMKI, Russia, H4, 4.53g - Only One I have.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381223523

Nice Specimen of NWA 869, L4-6, 184 gram - VERY NICE LARGE SLICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381226915

Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-108.9g - Nice One!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380559087

Outstanding Silicated-Campo Del Cielo -17.12g - I love these silicated  
specimens!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380666575

Rare & Low TKW, DAVY (B), Texas, H4, 19.06g - Nice larger specimen!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380664707

METEORITE A Rare Ungrouped Iron-TRES CASTILLOS, 118g - Everyone else  
sells at $10.00 per gram-Check This One Out!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200382988758

Very Rare NWA 4468, Primitive Martian, 194mg  - REALLY NICE ONE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380978590

Rare NWA 1277, CO3.6, 50 gram End Cut - RARE & A GOOD DEAL!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200382990125

Cool End Cut of OUM DREYGA, Fall, H3-5, 137g - A really Great  
Specimen- Check it out!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381376688

A very Rare EL3 From Africa, NWA 2965, 95.13g - I am running out of  
these!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380696034

CANYON DIABLO Individual, IAB Iron, 152 g - Nice Individual!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380709755

Semi Rare- TWODOT, H6 From Montana, 1.78g, Once was around, but seldom  
available these days.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380977278

Seldom Available COVERT, Kansas, H5, 5.28 g - Nice slice!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380711078

"A Good Buy" NWA 4300, H5 From Africa, 38g - Maybe my last one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380973637

Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-193.1g - A good one!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380731973

(New) NWA 5059, L4, 102 gram, *Good Price*
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380565763

Superb WAGON MOUND, New Mexico, 11.17 gram - great looking part slice
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380565090

(VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 0.39g - Nice One.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380555701

Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-13.29g - For some reason there  
are no photos showing for this one... worth bidding on though- be  
surprised!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380556347

Rare Carbonaceous CO3.6, NWA 1277, 1.71 gram- Pretty Rare
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380973362

(New) Olivine Diogenite-NWA 5480, 1.62 gram _ Rare.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380554751

(New) Fall, CHERGACH, Mali, Individual, 15.9g
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380559708






and many others....


Thanks and Best Wishes









From mccartney at blackbearddata.com  Tue Sep 15 12:22:45 2009
From: mccartney at blackbearddata.com (McCartney Taylor)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:22:45 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] The embeded Sikhote clue on Velocity
Message-ID: <0ee655a1871d4ef2984e4bd18501ba0e@ucv1.vhostdns.com>

This piece is an important clue on potential cosmic velocity residual at ground level.  

I encourage Matt to have this piece X-rayed in a lab (or in a doctors office - any Doc's out there with ideas?) to determine the depth of the penetration. Likely a Doc would get a kick out of this and do it in a couple of hours.

1. We know the height of trees are between 0-10 meters.
2. We know the incoming angle +/- 20 degrees from the famous painting.
3. We have an idea of the speed of a bullet hitting trees and their penetration. 
4. We have an idea of the TKW of the iron

Give this picture, the diameter of the projectile, a copy of the X-ray and some background to a Police or FBI specialist ballistics investigator and we could get a very good estimate of the velocity.

Matt, if you get this X-rayed and we find a ballistics specialist to do the analysis, I'd be willing to write the white paper on this.

-mt





From GeoZay at aol.com  Tue Sep 15 12:28:14 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:28:14 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September
	14, 2009
Message-ID: <c1a.668fc02c.37e11a9e@aol.com>

I don't see any charring...only staining/rust. I  wonder if the tree was 
laying down when it was struck by the meteorite?  
GeoZay  



From GeoZay at aol.com  Tue Sep 15 13:04:38 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:04:38 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September
	14, 2009
Message-ID: <c1b.5aaae04c.37e12326@aol.com>

>>I don't see any charring...only  staining/rust. <<

Wanting to expand a little here...assuming the  tree was alive when struck, 
I don't think a small meteorite would carry enuf  heat to cause any 
charring that would be noticed today. Being one who relies on  a woodstove as their 
primary source of heat, I can attest that it's a real bear  to get wet wood 
to even think about burning. If it was a dead tree, I still  doubt there 
would be enuf heat in this small piece to cause anything to burn. If  a small 
piece was hot enuf to cause any charring, I can only imagine how much  heat 
would be in the larger pieces...were there any burnt trees in the  
strewnfield area? I can't tell from the photograph, but was this piece a  fragment or 
an individual?
George Zay  



From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Tue Sep 15 13:14:04 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:14:04 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day
	-September14, 2009
Message-ID: <2082585294-1253034942-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1558745213-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

George
I don't think the heat was from the small meteorite itself, but the kinetic energy released by the impacting bodies. There was enough energy to form craters/pits that were 20-30m wide and down trees.
Like in all cratering events, there was a hot air blast caused by the energy release which may have charred the outside of the trees.

This is just a possible way to explain the charring, if in fact, that is what I am seeing on the bark of the tree (again, not behind the small meteorite).
Matt
------Original Message------
From: GeoZay at aol.com
Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September14, 2009
Sent: Sep 15, 2009 11:04 AM

>>I don't see any charring...only  staining/rust. <<

Wanting to expand a little here...assuming the  tree was alive when struck, 
I don't think a small meteorite would carry enuf  heat to cause any 
charring that would be noticed today. Being one who relies on  a woodstove as their 
primary source of heat, I can attest that it's a real bear  to get wet wood 
to even think about burning. If it was a dead tree, I still  doubt there 
would be enuf heat in this small piece to cause anything to burn. If  a small 
piece was hot enuf to cause any charring, I can only imagine how much  heat 
would be in the larger pieces...were there any burnt trees in the  
strewnfield area? I can't tell from the photograph, but was this piece a  fragment or 
an individual?
George Zay  

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA

From leighannedelray at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 13:43:53 2009
From: leighannedelray at gmail.com (Leigh Anne DelRay)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:43:53 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] A countdown clock until the Tucson Gem Show
Message-ID: <5e97e2850909151043i5e7ed4dfhcf0240c45b3b6ac9@mail.gmail.com>

I made this, enjoy

http://xrl.in/34dg

-Leigh Anne DelRay
CallistoImages.com


From wahlperry at aol.com  Tue Sep 15 14:21:08 2009
From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:21:08 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day
	-September14, 2009
In-Reply-To: <2082585294-1253034942-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1558745213-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <2082585294-1253034942-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1558745213-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <8CC04486DFA5E04-4A48-108C7@webmail-d017.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Matt,

What a cool piece to have in your collection. How did you ever find it?

P.S. If you ever want to sell it, put me first on the list!

Sonny


-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
To: GeoZay at aol.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:14 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day 
-September14, 2009






George
I don't think the heat was from the small meteorite itself, but the 
kinetic
energy released by the impacting bodies. There was enough energy to 
form
craters/pits that were 20-30m wide and down trees.
Like in all cratering events, there was a hot air blast caused by the 
energy
release which may have charred the outside of the trees.

This is just a possible way to explain the charring, if in fact, that 
is what I
am seeing on the bark of the tree (again, not behind the small 
meteorite).
Matt
------Original Message------
From: GeoZay at aol.com
Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day 
-September14,
2009
Sent: Sep 15, 2009 11:04 AM

>>I don't see any charring...only  staining/rust. <<

Wanting to expand a little here...assuming the  tree was alive when 
struck,
I don't think a small meteorite would carry enuf  heat to cause any
charring that would be noticed today. Being one who relies on  a 
woodstove as
their
primary source of heat, I can attest that it's a real bear  to get wet 
wood
to even think about burning. If it was a dead tree, I still  doubt 
there
would be enuf heat in this small piece to cause anything to burn. If  a 
small
piece was hot enuf to cause any charring, I can only imagine how much  
heat
would be in the larger pieces...were there any burnt trees in the
strewnfield area? I can't tell from the photograph, but was this piece 
a
fragment or
an individual?
George Zay

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list







From GeoZay at aol.com  Tue Sep 15 15:16:51 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:16:51 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day
	-September14, 2009
Message-ID: <d36.52d853b0.37e14223@aol.com>

>>P.S. If you ever want to sell it, put me  first on the list!
Sonny<<


If you ever want to give it away,  put me ahead of him. :O)
geozay  



From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Tue Sep 15 15:03:17 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 15 Sep 2009 19:03:17 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Matt's embedded Sikhote-Alin
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000005D0000402E@paulinet.de>

Here's an excerpt from Buchwald:

"Several fragments had hit the trees of the dense taiga forest and
 had either broken them or damaged them. A 13.6 kg specimen was thus
 found firmly embedded in a partly split, 70 cm thick cedar tree."

and, on page 1126:

Date of fall: Feb 12, 1947

Time: 10.38 a.m. (local time)

Direction: N => S (10-15? east of north)

Initial inclination: 41?

The initial declination had increased to 60-70?
at the time of impact (zenith angle about 49?).

Apparent diameter of the bolide: 600m (with its luminous envelope).

Length of smoke trail: 33 ? 9 km

Dust trail observed for several hours.

Brightness of bolide: exceeded that of the sun (about - 26)

Point of complete breakup: 4 - 6 km  (Hemmungspunkt)

Initial velocity: 14.5 km/s

Geocentric velocity: 9.2 km/s

Heliocentric velocity: 37  km/s

Preatmospheric mass: 1000 t

Radius of light and sound phenomena: 300 - 400 km

Largest fragment: 1.745 kg

Specimens collected: 8.500

Total weight:	> 23 tons

It is estimated that a total of 70 tons fell, including dust.

Impact holes: 122 (? 0.5 - 26 m / 1 - 12 m)

Scatter ellipse:	1.6 km^2 ( N => S = 2.1 km /E => W = 1.0 km )

A smaller ellipse of 0.75 x 0.30 km was found to exist.

Final velocities: 0.1 - 1 km/s


Reference:

BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Iron Meteorites (1975, Vol. 3, pp. 1123-1130).



From stm at bellsouth.net  Tue Sep 15 15:31:24 2009
From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:31:24 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the
	Day-September14, 2009
In-Reply-To: <d36.52d853b0.37e14223@aol.com>
References: <d36.52d853b0.37e14223@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6864CAD7E1004F73A84CA75C286470E8@Platinum2>

Something tells me you guys will have to pry it from his cold dead 
fingers...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <GeoZay at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the 
Day-September14, 2009


>>>P.S. If you ever want to sell it, put me  first on the list!
> Sonny<<
>
>
> If you ever want to give it away,  put me ahead of him. :O)
> geozay
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Sep 15 15:37:15 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 12:37:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Computer Modeling Supplements Dusty Testing (MER)
Message-ID: <200909151937.n8FJbFns006087@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-140  

Computer Modeling Supplements Dusty Testing
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
September 14, 2009

Tests on Earth simulating Spirit's predicament on Mars have reinforced
understanding that getting Spirit to rove again will be very difficult.

To supplement the tests at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena,
Calif., the rover team is refining a detailed computer model of rover
mobility, calibrated with results from testing and measurements from Mars.

"The computer modeling will allow us to connect the results from tests
performed in Earth gravity with what to expect from the rover in Mars
gravity," said JPL's John Callas, project manager for Spirit and its
twin, Opportunity.

Spirit became embedded in soft soil at a site called "Troy" in early
May, more than five years into a mission on Mars that was originally
scheduled to last for three months. The rover team suspended further
driving attempts with Spirit while evaluating possibilities from tests
performed at JPL simulating the Troy situation.

An additional round of testing was added to the September schedule to
gain more detailed assessment of how to move Spirit while avoiding
putting the rover's center of gravity directly over a rock that is
touching or nearly touching the rover's underbelly. Other added tests
are using a lighter-weight test rover than the one used for most of the
testing this summer. A complete "dress rehearsal" test of the
extrication strategy judged to hold the best chance of success is
planned in the test setup at JPL before the team commands Spirit to
begin driving. That test and subsequent review of its results are
expected to take several weeks. Moves by Spirit will not begin before
October, according to current plans.

"We are proceeding very cautiously and exploring all reasonable
options," Callas said. "There is a very real possibility that Spirit may
not be able to get out, and we want to give Spirit the very best chance."

A dust storm that had reduced the electrical output from Spirit's solar
panels by nearly half during late August still has some lingering
effects on the skies above Spirit.

For more updates, please visit the Free Spirit site:
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/freespirit/




From daistiho at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 15 15:54:07 2009
From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:54:07 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -- clear capsules
Message-ID: <SNT120-W500158664BF3B53B3DE058CAE30@phx.gbl>


As most of you know, I concentrate on collecting micros.  Many of my micros are in the .1g range or smaller; if they aren't labeled, they could easily be mistaken for one of HI's ubiquitous gecko poops.  Some collectors have sent micros encased in the small clear capsules that vitamin and herbal supplements come in.  I think this is a very good idea especially for the bigger-than-mg-but-smaller-than-.2g size.
1.  Can someone give me the name of a supplier for these things?  They are available on ebay, but see #2
2.  I'm concerned about using the capsules that are designed to dissolve when swallowed.  Are these still ok for meteorite storage use (no worries about them softening or going gelatinous?)

Any info you can supply would be welcome.

Best!
Tracy Latimer

_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/

From stm at bellsouth.net  Tue Sep 15 16:17:59 2009
From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:17:59 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -- clear capsules
In-Reply-To: <SNT120-W500158664BF3B53B3DE058CAE30@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT120-W500158664BF3B53B3DE058CAE30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4198B30D087542BAAF079328287D832D@Platinum2>

Tracy,

There are definitely people that make non-dissolving plastic pill-like 
containers... your email sparked a memory and I am looking at one in my 
hand.  It came in a small eye-glass repair kit I got at the local CVS.  The 
capsule contained the little screws and washers.  They are crystal clear, 
and seem like they are what you are looking for... there has to be a way to 
find the supplier.  You could always buy one of those eyeglass kits and call 
the manufacturer to see who supplies their non-dissolving capsules.

Micro centrifuge vials may be something that you would find useful also... 
there are a billion sources out there, but here is one that was on the top 
of my search list (and I have done business with them before, so they are 
reliable):
http://www.tedpella.com/beakers_html/vials.htm

Sean.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tracy latimer" <daistiho at hotmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:54 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -- clear capsules


>
> As most of you know, I concentrate on collecting micros.  Many of my 
> micros are in the .1g range or smaller; if they aren't labeled, they could 
> easily be mistaken for one of HI's ubiquitous gecko poops.  Some 
> collectors have sent micros encased in the small clear capsules that 
> vitamin and herbal supplements come in.  I think this is a very good idea 
> especially for the bigger-than-mg-but-smaller-than-.2g size.
> 1.  Can someone give me the name of a supplier for these things?  They are 
> available on ebay, but see #2
> 2.  I'm concerned about using the capsules that are designed to dissolve 
> when swallowed.  Are these still ok for meteorite storage use (no worries 
> about them softening or going gelatinous?)
>
> Any info you can supply would be welcome.
>
> Best!
> Tracy Latimer
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep 15 16:38:32 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 15:38:32 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -- clear capsules
References: <SNT120-W500158664BF3B53B3DE058CAE30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <3ADC71EB1D8541949AC4FBF6545F6FD3@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Tracy, List,

> capsules that vitamin and herbal
> supplements come in...

    The capsules that can be assembled and
disassembled are gelatin capsules. They are
are designed to dissolve immediately in water
or any fluid containing water (like stomach
contents).

    They would have to be protected from even
mild humidity which would make them soft
and sticky, as the capsules are hydroscopic
and will draw water from the air slowly and
ceaselessly. Is Hawaii humid?  :-}

     One used to be able to buy empty gelatin
capsules in any old-fashioned drugstore, but
probably not any more. In many states, they
are procurable only by prescription due to their
popularity among purveyors of less-than-legal
substances.

    Entirely the wrong thing for meteorites and
like materials. I'd go with acrylic.


Sterling K. Webb
-----------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "tracy latimer" <daistiho at hotmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:54 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -- clear capsules


>
> As most of you know, I concentrate on collecting micros.  Many of my 
> micros are in the .1g range or smaller; if they aren't labeled, they 
> could easily be mistaken for one of HI's ubiquitous gecko poops.  Some 
> collectors have sent micros encased in the small clear capsules that 
> vitamin and herbal supplements come in.  I think this is a very good 
> idea especially for the bigger-than-mg-but-smaller-than-.2g size.
> 1.  Can someone give me the name of a supplier for these things?  They 
> are available on ebay, but see #2
> 2.  I'm concerned about using the capsules that are designed to 
> dissolve when swallowed.  Are these still ok for meteorite storage use 
> (no worries about them softening or going gelatinous?)
>
> Any info you can supply would be welcome.
>
> Best!
> Tracy Latimer
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From mexicodoug at aim.com  Tue Sep 15 16:38:31 2009
From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:38:31 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -- clear capsules
In-Reply-To: <SNT120-W500158664BF3B53B3DE058CAE30@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT120-W500158664BF3B53B3DE058CAE30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CC045B9ECE124E-1B3C-1277D@webmail-d002.sysops.aol.com>

Aloha Tracy

I have always balked at gel capsules for nutraceuticals, after getting 
one or two fro some established collectors selling on eBay - because 
they are meant to be swallowed, right?

Suppose for a moment that they are stable, and can maintain their 
structural integrity in humid environments - and will not blobify. That 
may be true.

I am guessing that they are all hygroscopic by design, as the cheap 
ones are all made from partially hydrolyzed animal skin, hair, and 
bones (reminds me of Jell-O, which was reputed to be made from horses' 
hooves when I was in grade-school).

Being hygroscopic, wouldn't the maintain a humid interior? Kind of the 
opposite of storing your meteorites with silica gel, and like storing 
them inside a humid draw on a micro-level. (Here is where I have my 
doubt: maybe they actually act like silica gel, but the existence of 
tiny glass flasks makes that a moot question IMO.

I would suggest some micro-bottles from some chemical supply house like 
VWR or eBay, if more convenient. Glass is tried and true ... If not 
look for another container made of some lesser permeable plastic. Short 
term storage really may not be a big deal, just like a humid day - not 
much happens. But we like to think of our collections as forever ...

Even if you get expensive cellulose derivatives of pharma capsules, 
most depend on their hygroscopic properties whether it is a simple 
dissolution or assisted by gastric juices (which is why animal derived 
gel caps are so successful) - or else they would not deliver their 
contents efficiently before passing through our systems.

Best wishes,
Doug


-----Original Message-----
From: tracy latimer <daistiho at hotmail.com>
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 2:54 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT -- clear capsules



As most of you know, I concentrate on collecting micros. Many of my 
micros are
in the .1g range or smaller; if they aren't labeled, they could easily 
be
mistaken for one of HI's ubiquitous gecko poops. Some collectors have 
sent
micros encased in the small clear capsules that vitamin and herbal 
supplements
come in. I think this is a very good idea especially for the
bigger-than-mg-but-smaller-than-.2g size.
1. Can someone give me the name of a supplier for these things? They 
are
available on ebay, but see #2
2. I'm concerned about using the capsules that are designed to dissolve 
when
swallowed. Are these still ok for meteorite storage use (no worries 
about them
softening or going gelatinous?)

Any info you can supply would be welcome.

Best!
Tracy Latimer

_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 15 17:06:34 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:06:34 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
Message-ID: <COL108-W53F83E46B1DF7EEE814A279BE30@phx.gbl>




Hello,

I've had some kids ask me some questions concerning the meteorite that created the Chicxulub crater. I wasn't sure, so I thought I'd ask the list. Questions have been condensed by me.

!. Since there are high levels of iridium, is it safe to assume it was a stony asteroid or comet but not an iron?

2. If it was an iron asteroid, since it was the size of Mount Everest and going at near cosmic speed, would it have gone thru the Earth?
 
Thanks. Carl, still very embarrassed!

_________________________________________________________________
Bing brings you health info from trusted sources.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MHEINA_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1

From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Tue Sep 15 17:13:41 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:13:41 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the
	Day	-September14, 2009
Message-ID: <78295238-1253049317-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1615078736-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Here in Denver.
Matt
------Original Message------
From: Grant Elliott
To: wahlperry at aol.com
Cc: mail at mhmeteorites.com
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day	-September14,2009
Sent: Sep 15, 2009 2:13 PM

Yeah Matt, where did you find this?
Inquiring minds want to know-

Grant Elliott



On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:21 PM, wahlperry at aol.com wrote:

> Hi Matt,
>
> What a cool piece to have in your collection. How did you ever find  
> it?
>
> P.S. If you ever want to sell it, put me first on the list!
>
> Sonny
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matt Morgan <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
> To: GeoZay at aol.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 10:14 am
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
> September14, 2009
>
>
>
>
>
>
> George
> I don't think the heat was from the small meteorite itself, but the  
> kinetic
> energy released by the impacting bodies. There was enough energy to  
> form
> craters/pits that were 20-30m wide and down trees.
> Like in all cratering events, there was a hot air blast caused by  
> the energy
> release which may have charred the outside of the trees.
>
> This is just a possible way to explain the charring, if in fact,  
> that is what I
> am seeing on the bark of the tree (again, not behind the small  
> meteorite).
> Matt
> ------Original Message------
> From: GeoZay at aol.com
> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
> September14,
> 2009
> Sent: Sep 15, 2009 11:04 AM
>
>>> I don't see any charring...only  staining/rust. <<
>
> Wanting to expand a little here...assuming the  tree was alive when  
> struck,
> I don't think a small meteorite would carry enuf  heat to cause any
> charring that would be noticed today. Being one who relies on  a  
> woodstove as
> their
> primary source of heat, I can attest that it's a real bear  to get  
> wet wood
> to even think about burning. If it was a dead tree, I still  doubt  
> there
> would be enuf heat in this small piece to cause anything to burn.  
> If  a small
> piece was hot enuf to cause any charring, I can only imagine how  
> much  heat
> would be in the larger pieces...were there any burnt trees in the
> strewnfield area? I can't tell from the photograph, but was this  
> piece a
> fragment or
> an individual?
> George Zay
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ----------------------
> Matt Morgan
> Mile High Meteorites
> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> P.O. Box 151293
> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
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> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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>
>
>
>
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> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA

From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Tue Sep 15 17:40:29 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 14:40:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] In Search of Dark Asteroids (and Other Sneaky
	Things)
Message-ID: <200909152140.n8FLeUS9011532@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2009/15sep_ninjaastronomy.htm

In Search of Dark Asteroids (and Other Sneaky Things)
NASA Science News
September 15, 2009

Ninjas knew how to be stealthy: Be dark. Emit very little light. Move 
in the shadows between bright places.

In modern warfare, though, ninjas would be sitting ducks. Their black
clothes may be hard to see at night with the naked eye, but their warm
bodies would be clearly visible to a soldier wearing infrared goggles.

To hunt for the "ninjas" of the cosmos - dim objects that lurk in the
vast dark spaces between planets and stars - scientists are building by
far the most sensitive set of wide-angle infrared goggles ever, a space
telescope called the Widefield Infrared Survey Explorer (WISE).

WISE will scan the entire sky at infrared wavelengths, creating the most
comprehensive catalog yet of dark and dim objects in the cosmos: vast
dust clouds, brown dwarf stars, asteroids - even large, nearby asteroids
that might pose a threat to Earth.

Surveys of nearby asteroids based on visible-light telescopes could be
skewed toward asteroids with more-reflective surfaces. "If there's a
significant population of asteroids nearby that are very dark, they will
have been missed by these previous surveys," says Edward Wright,
principal investigator for WISE and a physicist at the University of
California in Los Angeles.

The full-sky infrared map produced by WISE will reveal even these darker
asteroids, mapping the locations and sizes of roughly 200,000 asteroids
and giving scientists a clearer idea of how many large and potentially
dangerous asteroids are nearby. WISE will also help answer questions
about the formation of stars and the evolution and structure of
galaxies, including our own Milky Way.

And the discoveries won't likely stop there.

"When you look at the sky with new sensitivity and a new wavelength
band, like WISE is going to do, you're going to find new things that you
didn't know were out there," Wright says.

Stars emit visible light in part because they're so hot. But cooler
objects like asteroids emit light too, just at longer, infrared
wavelengths that are invisible to the unaided eye. In fact, any object
warmer than absolute zero will emit at least some infrared light.

Unfortunately, this fact makes building an infrared telescope rather
difficult. Without a coolant, the telescope itself would glow in
infrared light just like all other warm objects do. It would be like
building a normal, visible-light telescope out of Times Square billboard
lights: The telescope would be blinded by its own glow.

To solve this problem, WISE will cool its components to about 15?C above
absolute zero (or -258?C) using a block of solid hydrogen. Mission
scientists chose solid hydrogen over liquid helium, which is often used
in research for cooling materials to near absolute zero, because a
smaller volume of solid hydrogen can do the job. "The cooling power is
much higher for hydrogen than for helium," Wright explains. When
launching a telescope into space, being smaller and lighter saves money.

Previous space telescopes such as the Infrared Astronomical Satellite
(IRAS) have mapped the sky at infrared wavelengths before, but WISE will
be hundreds of times more sensitive. While other missions could only see
diffuse sources of infrared light such as large dust clouds, WISE will
be able to see asteroids and other point sources.

After it launches into orbit as early as this December, WISE will spend
6 months mapping the sky, during which it will download its data to
ground stations 4 times each day. Analyzing that data should give
scientists some new insights into the cosmos.

For example, one theory posits that most of the stars in the Universe
were formed in the press of colliding galaxies. When galaxies collide,
interstellar clouds of gas and dust smash together, compressing the
clouds and starting a self-perpetuating cycle of gravitational collapse.
The result is a flurry of starbirth. Newborn stars are usually concealed
by the dusty clouds they are born in. Ordinary light cannot escape, but
infrared light can.

WISE will be able to detect infrared emissions from the most active
star-forming regions. This will help scientists know how rapidly stars
are formed during galactic collisions, which could indicate how many of
the universe's stars were formed this way.

WISE will also target dim "failed stars" called brown dwarfs that
outnumber ordinary stars by a wide margin. Mapping brown dwarfs in the
Milky Way may reveal much about the structure and evolution of our own
galaxy.

And this could be just the beginning of the discoveries scientists make
once WISE puts the spotlight on stealthy denizens of the dark.



From jnbran at verizon.net  Tue Sep 15 17:43:56 2009
From: jnbran at verizon.net (JASON PHILLIPS)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:43:56 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) old bob haag catalogs
In-Reply-To: <1661381067-1253028480-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1987998614-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1661381067-1253028480-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1987998614-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <FDA74364334C444882024956C19B60CA@AcerPC>

Thanks Matt for the link, it is sure nice to see where we as a hobby have 
come from.  Great pictures and some incredible meteorites!

Take Care,
Jason
Rocks from Heaven
www.rocksfromheaven.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Morgan" <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
To: "steve arnold" <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>; 
<meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] (AD) old bob haag catalogs


Just in case you cannot find hard copies, bob has digital copies here:
http://www.meteorites.com.

It is pretty fun to page through all these and look at his price lists.
Matt
------Original Message------
From: steve arnold
Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) old bob haag catalogs
Sent: Sep 15, 2009 9:18 AM

Hi list.I am looking to buy any old bob haag catalogs.Please let me know off 
list if anyone is willing to sell them off list please.
Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!!



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Tue Sep 15 17:32:06 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 15 Sep 2009 21:32:06 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000002E00004035@paulinet.de>

An embarrassed Carl writes:

1. Since there are high levels of iridium, is it safe to assume
    it was a stony asteroid or comet but not an iron?
 
2. If it was an iron asteroid, since it was the size of Mount Everest and 
    going at near cosmic speed, would it have gone thru the Earth?

  
Hello Carl and List,

Maybe you remember that Frank Kyte (University of California, Los Angeles) found a tiny,
2.5-4 mm-wide piece of light-colored clay on the bed of the Pacific Ocean. He  split it open
and found what he believes to be a fossil meteorite, the possible remnant of the K-T impactor.

The amount of iron, chromium, and iridium it contained nicely fits the ranges of these elements
in carbonaceous chondrites. But Kyte was confronted with one problem: he also found much more
gold in this sample than would be expected in a chondritic meteorite. Kyte was sure it must have
been a stony object because the material he found (or what was left of it) was not porous enough
to have come from a comet.

As for going through the Earth: Although the Mount Everest is a huge chunk of rock,
a 10-15 km chunk of asteroidal material like the K-T impactor can only "scratch" at
the surface of  this 12,000+ km planet we call Earth. It takes a much larger impactor
to cause a radical change of a planet's rotation period or its axial tilt.

Well, I know the dinosaurs would vehemently disagree ;-)


Best wishes,

Bernd



From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep 15 17:52:00 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:52:00 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
References: <COL108-W53F83E46B1DF7EEE814A279BE30@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BDA55209723140C6B4E2D8BF2CDE6459@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Carl, List,

    Two impactors of identical mass (not size,
because density varies, but mass), hitting with
identical speeds and at identical angles produce
virtually identical craters.

    All that matters (if the object is bigger than
20-50 meters is kinetic energy. It could be iron,
it could be rock, it could be ice, it could be highly
compressed chicken feathers or a ball of fossilized
fast food --- all would have the same result.

    A porous carboneaous chondrite of 10 km diameter
and an iron ball of 5.85 km, weigh the same, and at
20 km/s and a 60-degree angle, both will produce a
65 mile crater 3/4 of a mile deep.

    There are high-iridium iron meteorites as well as
stony ones, but an iron impact will leave other traces
not found around Chicxulub.

    Now... the fun part! What WOULD go right through
the Earth?! It would have to be very dense so that its
area was very small for its huge mass. Number one
best candidate is a small fast black hole. I specify "fast"
because if it was slow-moving, it might slow enough to
stop inside the Earth or start orbiting around inside
the planet, madly eating up mantle and core material
as it went until...

    Wow! makes me want to drag that heavy John
Wheeler book off the top shelf and start scribbling.
Given a black-hole of minimum mass and size
m-sub-bh <<<< m-sub-earth, how long would it take
to eat the entire Earth? Well, even without numbers,
one can see that initially the mass consumption of
the small black hole would be very modest, but as it
grew and grew, the rate would increase by a power
curve following the exponent of the ratio of black hole
surface to black hole mass until the black hole reached
a certain fraction of the Earth's mass and then a
destructive deformation would occur in a catastrophic
fashion... It could take thousands of years. There could
be one there now. (Not true; we would hear it.)

    But if it was a FAST black hole, it would go straight
through the Earth with only the equivalent of a black
hole burp and perhaps produce a massive episode of
basalt flood vulcanism as it exited. Silly notion. We don't
have massive basalt flood vulcanism... What's that?
We do? Every how often? Hmm. You don't suppose...?


Sterling K. Webb
------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:06 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid


>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I've had some kids ask me some questions concerning the meteorite that 
> created the Chicxulub crater. I wasn't sure, so I thought I'd ask the 
> list. Questions have been condensed by me.
>
> !. Since there are high levels of iridium, is it safe to assume it was 
> a stony asteroid or comet but not an iron?
>
> 2. If it was an iron asteroid, since it was the size of Mount Everest 
> and going at near cosmic speed, would it have gone thru the Earth?
>
> Thanks. Carl, still very embarrassed!
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Bing brings you health info from trusted sources.
> http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MHEINA_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Tue Sep 15 18:02:48 2009
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:02:48 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September14,
	2009
Message-ID: <8B176610F610440BB4A404CAF2A0C8C8@whitmerjbqtim1>

I didn't know these were so uncommon, I thought everybody had one!

We have one at the Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum:


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/120.jpg?t=1253051507

Phil Whitmer


From GeoZay at aol.com  Tue Sep 15 18:20:28 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:20:28 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day
	-September14, 2009
Message-ID: <d55.599bb4d3.37e16d2c@aol.com>

>>I didn't know these were so uncommon, I  thought everybody had one!

We have one at the Joshua Tree Earth &  Space Museum:<<
I can't see too well, but are there any burnt marks  anywhere on the bark?
GeoZay  



From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Tue Sep 15 18:07:19 2009
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:07:19 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
References: <COL108-W53F83E46B1DF7EEE814A279BE30@phx.gbl>
	<BDA55209723140C6B4E2D8BF2CDE6459@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <76EF38B7FD4F43568010D50635694155@bellatrix>

The tricky bit is how you define a "minimum size black hole". If you mean 
minimum in terms of the fundamental physics, such a black hole could have 
been orbiting inside the Earth since the Solar System formed, and it still 
would not have consumed enough material to make its presence known. If you 
mean minimum in terms of fundamental physics, but make the thing big enough 
to be stable (to consume material faster than it can evaporate)... I don't 
now how long that would take to consume Earth. And if you mean minimum in 
terms of how most theory (and all observation) mean it- on the order of a 
stellar mass- well, clearly things will get real bad, real fast if one 
intersects the Earth, no matter how fast or slow it's going.

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
To: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid


> Hi, Carl, List,
>
>    Two impactors of identical mass (not size,
> because density varies, but mass), hitting with
> identical speeds and at identical angles produce
> virtually identical craters.
>
>    All that matters (if the object is bigger than
> 20-50 meters is kinetic energy. It could be iron,
> it could be rock, it could be ice, it could be highly
> compressed chicken feathers or a ball of fossilized
> fast food --- all would have the same result.
>
>    A porous carboneaous chondrite of 10 km diameter
> and an iron ball of 5.85 km, weigh the same, and at
> 20 km/s and a 60-degree angle, both will produce a
> 65 mile crater 3/4 of a mile deep.
>
>    There are high-iridium iron meteorites as well as
> stony ones, but an iron impact will leave other traces
> not found around Chicxulub.
>
>    Now... the fun part! What WOULD go right through
> the Earth?! It would have to be very dense so that its
> area was very small for its huge mass. Number one
> best candidate is a small fast black hole. I specify "fast"
> because if it was slow-moving, it might slow enough to
> stop inside the Earth or start orbiting around inside
> the planet, madly eating up mantle and core material
> as it went until...
>
>    Wow! makes me want to drag that heavy John
> Wheeler book off the top shelf and start scribbling.
> Given a black-hole of minimum mass and size
> m-sub-bh <<<< m-sub-earth, how long would it take
> to eat the entire Earth? Well, even without numbers,
> one can see that initially the mass consumption of
> the small black hole would be very modest, but as it
> grew and grew, the rate would increase by a power
> curve following the exponent of the ratio of black hole
> surface to black hole mass until the black hole reached
> a certain fraction of the Earth's mass and then a
> destructive deformation would occur in a catastrophic
> fashion... It could take thousands of years. There could
> be one there now. (Not true; we would hear it.)
>
>    But if it was a FAST black hole, it would go straight
> through the Earth with only the equivalent of a black
> hole burp and perhaps produce a massive episode of
> basalt flood vulcanism as it exited. Silly notion. We don't
> have massive basalt flood vulcanism... What's that?
> We do? Every how often? Hmm. You don't suppose...?



From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 15 19:06:09 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:06:09 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
Message-ID: <COL108-W894F8A158F9D3878D58789BE30@phx.gbl>






Hi Bernd, Sterling and All,

Ah yes! I had forgotten The iron meteorite that created Barringer crater had vaporized!

When talking about meteorites with kids the conversation usually ends up with the dinosaur extinction. I can't think fast enough to keep pace with them! Thanks!!

Carl

_________________________________________________________________
Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digital tv's.
http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=digital+tv's&form=MSHNCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHNCB_Vertical_Shopping_DigitalTVs_1x1

From gmhupe at htn.net  Tue Sep 15 19:15:39 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:15:39 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Last Ocate iron & "3-Layer Cake" - AD
Message-ID: <A1C3C6CD690845B5BF597524368306B5@Gregor>

Dear List Members,

I would like to draw your attention to some special auctions I have running 
under my eBay seller name, NaturesVault.

1) "Ocate", a new & unpaired American Iron (Last four specimens).
2) NWA 5407 "3-Layer Cake - A Visual Treat!" (Last five specimens).

Both of these sets of auctions have 16 days left, each has the 'Buy it Now' 
feature and also includes the new 'Make Offer' function.

In addition to the above beauties, I have just four regular auctions that 
will end tomorrow, (Wednesday, Sept. 16th). These include:
1) NWA 2779, Dealer Lot, all that is left, priced to sell.
2) NWA 4569, Dealer Lot, all that is left, started at 99 cents.
3) DaG 735 Martian Slice, nice piece going cheap!!
4) Muonionalusta iron, 120 gram slice also going at a Give-Away price!

All of the above mentioned auctions can be seen here: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

Thank you for looking, I appreciate your bids and/or checking them out!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault






From cynapse at charter.net  Tue Sep 15 20:13:56 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:13:56 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
In-Reply-To: <BDA55209723140C6B4E2D8BF2CDE6459@ATARIENGINE2>
References: <COL108-W53F83E46B1DF7EEE814A279BE30@phx.gbl>
	<BDA55209723140C6B4E2D8BF2CDE6459@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <ocb0b5lgriej9tsvnirv1kluj24no2nnks@4ax.com>

On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 16:52:00 -0500, you wrote:

>Given a black-hole of minimum mass and size
>m-sub-bh <<<< m-sub-earth, how long would it take
>to eat the entire Earth? 

Trick question-- it wouldn't.  Scientists would put a motor on one of Marses
moons, use it to knock a large asteroid out of solar orbit into Earth orbit,
capture the black hole inside the asteroid at the top of the black hole's orbit,
then use the black hole for garbage disposal.

That's how it worked in The Doomsday Effect, at least.

http://www.thomastthomas.com/SFBooks.htm


From bcmeteorites at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 20:10:42 2009
From: bcmeteorites at gmail.com (bcmeteorites)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 18:10:42 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] A countdown clock until the Tucson Gem Show
In-Reply-To: <5e97e2850909151043i5e7ed4dfhcf0240c45b3b6ac9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <KCEHLCHBJMKNPLFNLIFECEMDCEAA.bcmeteorites@gmail.com>

Leigh Ann,
Hard to believe it is only 18 weeks to the Tucson show!!  
The Denver Show "officially" starts tomorrow.  It seems like one just ends and it
is time for the next one.  Always a good time at either show with many new specimens
just waiting to be found and added to the collections.
Thanks for the countdown clock!! ....do not want to be late ;-)

Bob Falls
Colorado Springs, Colorado

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of Leigh
Anne DelRay
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:44 AM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] A countdown clock until the Tucson Gem Show


I made this, enjoy

http://xrl.in/34dg

-Leigh Anne DelRay
CallistoImages.com
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 15 20:32:07 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:32:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day
 -September14, 2009
Message-ID: <9978159.1253061127656.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

If you decide to give that one away...

Guido

-----Original Message-----
>From: Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>
>Sent: Sep 15, 2009 6:02 PM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September14,	2009
>
>I didn't know these were so uncommon, I thought everybody had one!
>
>We have one at the Joshua Tree Earth & Space Museum:
>
>
>http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/120.jpg?t=1253051507
>
>Phil Whitmer
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep 15 20:58:22 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:58:22 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
References: <COL108-W53F83E46B1DF7EEE814A279BE30@phx.gbl><BDA55209723140C6B4E2D8BF2CDE6459@ATARIENGINE2>
	<76EF38B7FD4F43568010D50635694155@bellatrix>
Message-ID: <6173A0A9CBAD473F926769FCAA141DB0@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Chris, List,

    Like all physicists, by minimum or nomimal,
I mean whatever size is needed to make things
turn out just the way I said they would. Same
applies to the encounter velocity and all the other
parameters. I would choose exactly the right size
and velocity, according to the time-honored
"Goldilocks" Principle !

    Theoretically, there are still people arguing
that a singularity is only mathematically possible
but not possible in reality and while there are
hyperdense objects there are no black holes (and
using the same math to prove that as those who
think they DO exist in reality). And in practicality,
no pictures of a black hole I know of. (Just the
idea of a picture of a black hole makes me laugh.)

    So, going with Hawking's Primordial Black Holes
(not created by some later event), The PBH would
have to be at least 10^12 kg in mass when it was
created to survive this long. 10^12 kg is actually
quite small - the Earth has a mass of 6x10^24 kg -
so we are talking about a mass about equal to a
small mountain, like the Chicxulub impactor,
oddly enough.

    Of course, it's a black hole so it isn't the SIZE
of a small mountain; it's more like the size of a proton.
It will zip through the Earth without disturbing it.
But it will leave a microscopic "tube" of radiatively
disturbed matter along its path, almost impossible
(and highly unlikely) to be detected. We would never
know that the event had happened.

    This has all been worked out in detail by I. B.
Khriplovich, A. A. Pomeransky, N. Produit and C. Yu.
Ruban, in their paper: "Can one detect passage of
a small black hole through the Earth?"
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0710/0710.3438v1.pdf

    There is no reason to expect such a reasonable
result from a black hole with the mass of the Earth
itself. Such a monster would be HUGE, about as
big as a GOLF BALL! The gravitational consequences
would be catastrophic. Absurdly one tends to imagine
that if it were fast enough... (Equation 13; energy loss
is inversely proportional to velocity of the black hole
passing through the Earth, and who am I to doubt the
word of these fine gentlemen of Novosibirsk?.)

    Just to show there are no new ideas, it has been
suggested that Tunguska was a black hole penetrator:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event#Black_hole
as well as it has been suggested it was antimatter.
Take your pick.

    And, mercifully, I did not discuss the next best
alternatives for Whole Earth Penetrators. First, the
small chunk of degenerate matter or neutronium,
and second, the Antimatter Bullet. I think that it
would be harder to shoot right through the Earth
with them (although possibly just as easy to totally
destroy it).

    The question was: what would go right through
the Earth? I still think the Black Hole Bullet is the
best choice for the job of going right through the Earth.

    Of course, if all you want to do is mine the Earth
after reducing it to small chunks, I suggest injecting
a Neutronium Bullet and a Positronium Bullet to
spiral around until they meet each other at the
center of the Earth's core, combine, and distrupt
the entire planet for the easiest collection of the
raw materials by the waiting Alien Fleet.



Sterling K. Webb
---------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Peterson" <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid


> The tricky bit is how you define a "minimum size black hole". If you 
> mean minimum in terms of the fundamental physics, such a black hole 
> could have been orbiting inside the Earth since the Solar System 
> formed, and it still would not have consumed enough material to make 
> its presence known. If you mean minimum in terms of fundamental 
> physics, but make the thing big enough to be stable (to consume 
> material faster than it can evaporate)... I don't now how long that 
> would take to consume Earth. And if you mean minimum in terms of how 
> most theory (and all observation) mean it- on the order of a stellar 
> mass- well, clearly things will get real bad, real fast if one 
> intersects the Earth, no matter how fast or slow it's going.
>
> Chris
>
> *****************************************
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>; 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
>
>
>> Hi, Carl, List,
>>
>>    Two impactors of identical mass (not size,
>> because density varies, but mass), hitting with
>> identical speeds and at identical angles produce
>> virtually identical craters.
>>
>>    All that matters (if the object is bigger than
>> 20-50 meters is kinetic energy. It could be iron,
>> it could be rock, it could be ice, it could be highly
>> compressed chicken feathers or a ball of fossilized
>> fast food --- all would have the same result.
>>
>>    A porous carboneaous chondrite of 10 km diameter
>> and an iron ball of 5.85 km, weigh the same, and at
>> 20 km/s and a 60-degree angle, both will produce a
>> 65 mile crater 3/4 of a mile deep.
>>
>>    There are high-iridium iron meteorites as well as
>> stony ones, but an iron impact will leave other traces
>> not found around Chicxulub.
>>
>>    Now... the fun part! What WOULD go right through
>> the Earth?! It would have to be very dense so that its
>> area was very small for its huge mass. Number one
>> best candidate is a small fast black hole. I specify "fast"
>> because if it was slow-moving, it might slow enough to
>> stop inside the Earth or start orbiting around inside
>> the planet, madly eating up mantle and core material
>> as it went until...
>>
>>    Wow! makes me want to drag that heavy John
>> Wheeler book off the top shelf and start scribbling.
>> Given a black-hole of minimum mass and size
>> m-sub-bh <<<< m-sub-earth, how long would it take
>> to eat the entire Earth? Well, even without numbers,
>> one can see that initially the mass consumption of
>> the small black hole would be very modest, but as it
>> grew and grew, the rate would increase by a power
>> curve following the exponent of the ratio of black hole
>> surface to black hole mass until the black hole reached
>> a certain fraction of the Earth's mass and then a
>> destructive deformation would occur in a catastrophic
>> fashion... It could take thousands of years. There could
>> be one there now. (Not true; we would hear it.)
>>
>>    But if it was a FAST black hole, it would go straight
>> through the Earth with only the equivalent of a black
>> hole burp and perhaps produce a massive episode of
>> basalt flood vulcanism as it exited. Silly notion. We don't
>> have massive basalt flood vulcanism... What's that?
>> We do? Every how often? Hmm. You don't suppose...?
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Tue Sep 15 20:59:26 2009
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:59:26 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September14,
	2009
Message-ID: <93CC3AFAD94F4ACFBF1C56DCC3B79326@whitmerjbqtim1>

Guido, GeoZay,

If I do a Chicago Steve type give away, you guys will be first on the list!

This picture is a crummy snapshot I happened to have.  I'll take a better 
lit one tomorrow.

But seriously, wouldn't there be dozens, maybe hundreds of these? 
Considering the millions of trees in the area?

Phil Whitmer




From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Tue Sep 15 21:28:47 2009
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:28:47 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
Message-ID: <6BF2E033D5FE40C99612C60863B457DE@whitmerjbqtim1>


This is where the mini black holes will come from:





Safety of particle collisions at the Large Hadron Collider
>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Concerns have been raised in the media, on the Internet and through the law 
courts about the safety of the particle physics experiments planned to take 
place at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), the world's largest and most 
powerful particle accelerator to date, built by the European Organization 
for Nuclear Research (CERN) near Geneva, in Switzerland.[1][2] The claimed 
dangers of the LHC particle collisions, which are expected to begin 
mid-November 2009, include doomsday scenarios involving the production of 
stable micro black holes and the creation of hypothetical particles called 
strangelets.[3]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are neutrinos passing through the earth at the speed of light, even as 
we sit and type,
Phil Whitmer

 



From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Tue Sep 15 21:42:24 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:42:24 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
References: <6BF2E033D5FE40C99612C60863B457DE@whitmerjbqtim1>
Message-ID: <430668517F9F4D69A0BE3FA83C7D0DE3@ATARIENGINE2>

The mean free path of a neutrino is about
one light year while traveling through lead.
That is, if you shot a beam of neutrinos into
one end of a brick of lead one light year long,
only half of the neutrinos would get through
and out the other end. You see? They ain't so
tough! But light year thick slabs of lead are
hard to come by...


Sterling K. Webb
--------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phil Whitmer" <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:28 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid


>
> This is where the mini black holes will come from:
>
>
>
>
>
> Safety of particle collisions at the Large Hadron Collider
>>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>
>
> Concerns have been raised in the media, on the Internet and through 
> the law courts about the safety of the particle physics experiments 
> planned to take place at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), the world's 
> largest and most powerful particle accelerator to date, built by the 
> European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) near Geneva, in 
> Switzerland.[1][2] The claimed dangers of the LHC particle collisions, 
> which are expected to begin mid-November 2009, include doomsday 
> scenarios involving the production of stable micro black holes and the 
> creation of hypothetical particles called strangelets.[3]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are neutrinos passing through the earth at the speed of light, 
> even as we sit and type,
> Phil Whitmer
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Tue Sep 15 21:42:57 2009
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:42:57 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men
Message-ID: <D0D8DE1A06E94F5EA7BE74DF45869B38@whitmerjbqtim1>


http://www.cbs7kosa.com/news/details.asp?ID=14975



Reality Show Being Filmed at Ector County Meteor Crater 9/15/09


Elias Hernandez
CBS 7 News
September 15, 2009

Odessa, Texas - A production company has chosen the Ector County meteor 
crater as their site to film a segment for a new reality show to be aired on 
the Discovery Channel.

Filming for the reality show called "Meteorite Men" began this morning.

The show follows the two professional meteorite hunters as they travel 
around the country in search of those rocks, which have fallen from space 
and landed on earth.

They use high-tech metal detectors and other gear to help them locate the 
rare rocks.

The meteorite hunters say Odessa's crater is one of the best locations for 
meteorite hunting on earth.

The production company had to get permission from Ector County Commissioners 
to film on the site.

Commissioners agreed to allow filming, as long as they cause no permanent 
damage to the crater.
------------------------------------

Phil Whitmer




From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 15 21:52:50 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:52:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day
 -September14, 2009
Message-ID: <14195190.1253065970317.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Phil and List,

I was scratching behind my ear, trying to figure out why I was drawn to stare at the pictures of the SK frags in the trees, when it occured to me that I had seen this before. Only it was a NVA/Russian 120mm rocket frag sticking out of the tree trunk above the hole I had been curled up in. They look remarkably alike.

Guido    

-----Original Message-----
>From: Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>
>Sent: Sep 15, 2009 8:59 PM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -September14,	2009
>
>Guido, GeoZay,
>
>If I do a Chicago Steve type give away, you guys will be first on the list!
>
>This picture is a crummy snapshot I happened to have.  I'll take a better 
>lit one tomorrow.
>
>But seriously, wouldn't there be dozens, maybe hundreds of these? 
>Considering the millions of trees in the area?
>
>Phil Whitmer
>
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From GeoZay at aol.com  Tue Sep 15 22:14:11 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:14:11 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day
	-September14, 2009
Message-ID: <c1d.6e4801a7.37e1a3f3@aol.com>

>>Only it was a NVA/Russian 120mm rocket  <<

You sure it wasn't a 122mm?  :O)
geozay  



From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 15 22:33:59 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:33:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the
	Day	-September14, 2009
Message-ID: <25374041.1253068439853.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

You know your ordinance. I got old people's syndrome and said rocket instead of mortar. This was a frag from a PRC 120mm Type 55. Some of those meteorite craters at SK are ringers for HE/Frag artifacts.

Hand salute,

Guido

-----Original Message-----
>From: GeoZay at aol.com
>Sent: Sep 15, 2009 10:14 PM
>To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day	-September14, 2009
>
>>>Only it was a NVA/Russian 120mm rocket  <<
>
>You sure it wasn't a 122mm?  :O)
>geozay  
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From GeoZay at aol.com  Tue Sep 15 22:58:19 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:58:19 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day
	-September14, 2009
Message-ID: <cf7.60bf2b1b.37e1ae4b@aol.com>

>>I got old people's  syndrome...<<
It's okay, I often mix things up too. We must be of the  same age bracket. 
:O)

>>Some of those meteorite craters at SK  are ringers for HE/Frag 
artifacts.<<

You know, I often wonder when  I look at all those small SA fragments on 
ebay, if they were actually shrapnel  gathered up from WWII or some other 
conflict?
GeoZay  



From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Wed Sep 16 01:08:31 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 01:08:31 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 16,
	2009
Message-ID: <d33.5f3c03eb.37e1cccf@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_16_2009.html  



From mexicodoug at aim.com  Wed Sep 16 02:34:37 2009
From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 02:34:37 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Viva Allende !
Message-ID: <8CC04AEE55369C3-1C24-17B1D@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com>

Ready the steel and harness the stallion
And quake the Earth at the centers!
With resonating echoes from the hills and from the valleys ...

Amigos Happy Independence Night ...

Viva Allende
Doug

PS La Libertad, Hidalgo, Aldama, Morelos, Iturbide, La Corregidora, La 
Virgin, Los Ni?os Heroes, que vivan, Viva Mexico, Viva Carancas


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 16 03:06:53 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 00:06:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Odessa Meteorite Craters-Good news; poor reporting
Message-ID: <107445.70157.qm@web53112.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear List,
  Here is an update about the filming at Odessa Craters in Texas.
  How many factual errors can you find in the reporter`s mis-quotes/incorrect facts?
  This should be a good learning experience for all of the "newbies" on this list. 
  Best to Geoff and Steve!--- and Tom, Bob, nearby Odessa and the rest of Ector County!  

Don`t Mess With Texas!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odessa_Meteor_Crater

Perhaps the "Meteorite Men" will fund the fixing of the burnt stairway down the hole?

Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo

http://www.newswest9.com/Global/story.asp?S=11135469

New Reality Show Filming in Odessa
NewsWest9.com
"Odessa is one of two meteorites in the Country. One is in Arizona. It seems like a logical place for 'Meteorite Men' to come," Meteor Expert, ...


From info at meteorites.com.au  Wed Sep 16 04:10:45 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:10:45 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the
	Day-September14, 2009
In-Reply-To: <2082585294-1253034942-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1558745213-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <2082585294-1253034942-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1558745213-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <FC5105B04363410AA03EF541D2C8D263@JeffPC>

Hi all,

Most of you have probably seen it already but for anyone following this 
thread there is footage of a couple of trees in the Sikhote-Alin documentary 
where pieces have gone clean through them. It's at about 6:08.

http://www.meteorites.com.au/odds&ends/sikhote-alin.html

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Morgan" <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
To: <GeoZay at aol.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:14 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the 
Day-September14, 2009


> George
> I don't think the heat was from the small meteorite itself, but the 
> kinetic energy released by the impacting bodies. There was enough energy 
> to form craters/pits that were 20-30m wide and down trees.
> Like in all cratering events, there was a hot air blast caused by the 
> energy release which may have charred the outside of the trees.
>
> This is just a possible way to explain the charring, if in fact, that is 
> what I am seeing on the bark of the tree (again, not behind the small 
> meteorite).
> Matt
> ------Original Message------
> From: GeoZay at aol.com
> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the 
> Day -September14, 2009
> Sent: Sep 15, 2009 11:04 AM
>
>>>I don't see any charring...only  staining/rust. <<
>
> Wanting to expand a little here...assuming the  tree was alive when 
> struck,
> I don't think a small meteorite would carry enuf  heat to cause any
> charring that would be noticed today. Being one who relies on  a woodstove 
> as their
> primary source of heat, I can attest that it's a real bear  to get wet 
> wood
> to even think about burning. If it was a dead tree, I still  doubt there
> would be enuf heat in this small piece to cause anything to burn. If  a 
> small
> piece was hot enuf to cause any charring, I can only imagine how much 
> heat
> would be in the larger pieces...were there any burnt trees in the
> strewnfield area? I can't tell from the photograph, but was this piece a 
> fragment or
> an individual?
> George Zay
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ----------------------
> Matt Morgan
> Mile High Meteorites
> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> P.O. Box 151293
> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From zneutronz at aol.com  Wed Sep 16 08:14:09 2009
From: zneutronz at aol.com (zneutronz at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:14:09 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA4483 for sale
Message-ID: <8CC04DE541B383B-1F98-14DE@webmail-m027.sysops.aol.com>

hola colletors !

we have 6.784 billion people living on this planet, is there only one 
who would like to purchase my wonderfull NWA4483 lunar endcut ????

i sell for a fantastic price, just make an offer, i will sell under the 
price i paid !

for pictures please contact me ! > > thanks,

kindly regards,

oliver
imca #6131


From meteoriteshow at free.fr  Wed Sep 16 08:47:45 2009
From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (meteoriteshow at free.fr)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:47:45 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday
Message-ID: <1253105265.4ab0de71490df@imp.free.fr>

Dear Fellow Listees,

Meteoriteshow is back to ebay after a few weeks off!

Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow

They include:

1- Al Haggounia 001 PRIM. AUB. - 6.1g partslice
Partslice #001 weighing 6.1g, dimensions 52x23x2.7mm.Cut in one of the freshest
framents of Al Haggounia 001.
Displays what seems to be a ghost chondrule in a fair grey matrix.
Shipped in a display box
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330359567663

2- DaG 945 - EUCRITE - 5.7g partslice
PARTSLICE weighing 5.7g, dimensions 52x46x1.2mm
FRESH meteorite (W1), it displays nice BLACK FUSION CRUST on the edge.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330359561144

3- DaG 947 - LL6 - 1.41g partslice
Partslice weighing 1.41g, dimensions 20x16x1.5mm
FULL SLICE with FUSION CRUST
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330359563613

4- NWA 4677 - 0.9g partslice #01 - EUCRITE
PARTSLICE #01, weighing 0.9g, dimensions ~20.8x15.7x1.2mm.
Displays 2 lithologies and nice shock veins.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330359564906

5- SAH 02500 L3 - 8.1g slice
Slice weighing 8.1g, dimensions: 48x19x4mm.
Typical structure of SAH 02500 diplaying sharp chondrules and a nice grey
inclusion
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330359566388

6- ZAG H3-6 - 3.03g partslice - WITNESSED FALL!
Partslice weighing 3.03g, Dimensions: 19x14x5mm
Displays the usual 2 lithologies of ZAG.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330359569274

Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!!
Kind regards,

Frederic Beroud
http://www.meteoriteshow.com
IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/)


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Wed Sep 16 10:27:04 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 07:27:04 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
Message-ID: <4AB0F5B8.1010408@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi listees,

Some interesting reading...

"...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey 
through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 million 
spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or 
simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in diameter. 
Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million survived 
and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting that 
even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one planet 
to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a rock 
a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of years...."

Still don't believe?

Can Microbes Survive a Million-Year Space Journey? Experts Say "Yes"
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/09/can-microbes-survive-a-millionyear-space-journey-experts-say-yes.html

Still no?

Bugs In Space!
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/071211-st-space-microbes.html

How about this one?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090317153047.htm

Or this:

http://www.astrobiology.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=28594

And this...

http://www.physorg.com/news163259938.html

Even More...

http://blogs.jpl.nasa.gov/?tag=space-rocks

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080515-am-asteroid-impacts.html

http://spacefellowship.com/2009/08/30/picture-of-the-day-bacteria-astronauts/

Possible Martians:
http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/news/expandnews.cfm?id=9294

And this from the WashingtonPost.com website (Oct 1999)

"...A case study from the Apollo 12 mission in 1969 provides a 
cautionary tale. On the lunar surface, astronauts Pete Conrad and Alan 
Bean retrieved a camera from the Surveyor robot craft, which had landed 
almost three years earlier, and carried it back to Earth. Analysts at 
what is now NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston concluded that a 
common Earth bacterium, Streptococcus mitis (found in the human mouth, 
throat and nose), most likely had flown aboard Surveyor from Earth to 
the moon and survived years in the vacuum ? apparently nestled deep 
inside the camera in a foam insulation between two circuit boards..."

Supporting articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reports_of_Streptococcus_mitis_on_the_moon
http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/news/expandnews.cfm?id=10180

Space Bugs:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/space_bugs_021217.html

Deadly Space Bacteria:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/09/070924-space-bacteria.html

Ancient Life Revived:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/antarctic_life_021216.html

Bugs From Hell!
http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/news/expandnews.cfm?id=1245

More Extremophiles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremophile

Water Bears:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Bears

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14690-water-bears-are-first-animal-to-survive-space-vacuum.html

Nasa Hunts For Extremophiles:
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/07feb_cloroxlake.htm

New Extreme Life Form: 2005
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/02/050224093714.htm

Search For Life On Mars In Methane; NASA: Sept. 2009
http://www.livescience.com/researchinaction/ria-090910.html

And finally we're still left with the question...

Are We Aliens?
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/14/are-we-aliens/

To all you guys that say Aliens have nothing to do with Meteorites... 
Aliens have EVERYTHING to do with meteorites!

Hope you guys enjoy this post...

Regards,
Eric Wichman
www.MeteoritesUSA.com
www.MeteoriteBlog.com
www.Spacifieds.com














From fujmon at mac.com  Wed Sep 16 11:31:21 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:31:21 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] test
Message-ID: <058BA56F-CE5E-426F-B613-2A77F597B715@mac.com>

push ...

Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Wed Sep 16 11:11:21 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:11:21 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
Message-ID: <8EE79765E021471E8A039DE7F3318DFD@ET>

G'day, Konnichiwa, Aloha, Top 'o the morning to ya!:


Microbes from outer space living in the upper atmosphere and bacteria living 
for millions of years! If I only had more time to read junk science!

Phil Whitmer




Hi listees,

Some interesting reading...

"...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey
through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 million
spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or
simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in diameter.
Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million survived
and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting that
even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one planet
to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a rock
a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of years...."

Still don't believe? 



From spacerocksinc at aol.com  Wed Sep 16 11:33:59 2009
From: spacerocksinc at aol.com (spacerocksinc at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:33:59 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of theDay-September14,
	2009
In-Reply-To: <FC5105B04363410AA03EF541D2C8D263@JeffPC>
References: <2082585294-1253034942-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1558745213-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><FC5105B04363410AA03EF541D2C8D263@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <1514118119-1253115212-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-756043126-@bda267.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

I have added a few photos from the impact site along with Matt's great piece here:
http://www.sikhote-alin.org/sikhote-alin-1947.html

Michael Johnson
http://www.rocksfromspace.org

Thumbed On My BlackBerry   

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jeff Kuyken" <info at meteorites.com.au>

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:10:45 
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the
	Day-September14, 2009


Hi all,

Most of you have probably seen it already but for anyone following this 
thread there is footage of a couple of trees in the Sikhote-Alin documentary 
where pieces have gone clean through them. It's at about 6:08.

http://www.meteorites.com.au/odds&ends/sikhote-alin.html

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Morgan" <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
To: <GeoZay at aol.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:14 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the 
Day-September14, 2009


> George
> I don't think the heat was from the small meteorite itself, but the 
> kinetic energy released by the impacting bodies. There was enough energy 
> to form craters/pits that were 20-30m wide and down trees.
> Like in all cratering events, there was a hot air blast caused by the 
> energy release which may have charred the outside of the trees.
>
> This is just a possible way to explain the charring, if in fact, that is 
> what I am seeing on the bark of the tree (again, not behind the small 
> meteorite).
> Matt
> ------Original Message------
> From: GeoZay at aol.com
> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the 
> Day -September14, 2009
> Sent: Sep 15, 2009 11:04 AM
>
>>>I don't see any charring...only  staining/rust. <<
>
> Wanting to expand a little here...assuming the  tree was alive when 
> struck,
> I don't think a small meteorite would carry enuf  heat to cause any
> charring that would be noticed today. Being one who relies on  a woodstove 
> as their
> primary source of heat, I can attest that it's a real bear  to get wet 
> wood
> to even think about burning. If it was a dead tree, I still  doubt there
> would be enuf heat in this small piece to cause anything to burn. If  a 
> small
> piece was hot enuf to cause any charring, I can only imagine how much 
> heat
> would be in the larger pieces...were there any burnt trees in the
> strewnfield area? I can't tell from the photograph, but was this piece a 
> fragment or
> an individual?
> George Zay
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ----------------------
> Matt Morgan
> Mile High Meteorites
> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> P.O. Box 151293
> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From mikewren at gilanet.com  Wed Sep 16 11:50:25 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:50:25 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Auctions End Today- MORE-Highlights Added-Plus
	Sale On Select Items-Plus Very Special Price On Some Top
	Pieces-This Is A Must See! Wheelin' & Dealin' Time-Don't Be Shy!
Message-ID: <A6907934-4812-4C92-BFC3-81503EA7660C@gilanet.com>


Hello Everyone!

Check These out!



I Am Only Going To Sell One of these below and after that I will  
withdraw the others at these prices!  They all can be seen in my ebay  
store:

Outstanding HOLBROOK Individual, 415 gram - I will take an offer of  
$5,000.00 for this one-no less. A serious specimen for the right person!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200356012326

ZARAGOZA, Spain, IVA Anomalous, 2770 gram - HUGE Iron Slice - $5,000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200356012338

Big Specimen Of EL HAMMAMI, Mauritania 7,148g - BIGGEST SPECIMEN  
AROUND! $5,000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200356012358

GLORIETA MOUNTAIN, New Mexico, 5,740 gram - A Deal At $12,000.00 -  
This will be a center piece for most collections!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200366353657

Rare & Famous LOS ANGELES, Martian, 8.30g EC - This is a chance of a  
lifetime to acquire such a fine specimen! First $8,000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380213859

Fantastic-Oriented--CHIANG KHAN, Thailand - First $3,000.00 gets this  
one!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381008742

A Beautiful Sikhote-Alin, IIAB Iron, 7568g - YOU WILL NOT FIND A  
SPECIMEN THIS NICE FOR THE PRICE-Except Here! $4500.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200356012373

An Exquisite Portales Valley Individual-399g - A Rare Beauty- First  
$5,000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200356012332

A Beautiful slice of SEYMCHAN, Pal, 357 gram - YOU WILL NOT FIND A  
BETTER ONE FOR THIS PRICE!  First $3000.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381008755



ALL AUCTIONS HERE:

http://shop.ebay.com:80/merchant/meteorite-collector_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ




Highlights For This Week's Auctions:  (Some Very Nice Pieces)


Classic GOLD BASIN, Arizona, L4, 411 gram - BIG BIG Individual - This  
is the largest I have to auction!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380667745

(NEW) Ungrouped Ataxite, GRIFFITH, TX, 25.30g - Getting Low on this  
Rarity.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380712111

Seldom Available- AHUMADA, Pallasite, Mexico - Only Specimen I have!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380697806

New Fall- TAMDAKHT, H5, 20g, Individual * IMPORTANT TO NOTE -  
Individuals from this fall are extremely RARE! This one is a beauty.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380700292

Low Total Known Weight-FAIRFIELD, OH, Iron - Super Rare American Iron  
 From Ohio - Only One I have!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380974568

Super Rare HONOLULU, Witnessed Fall, 0.042 g - ONLY ONE I HAVE - LAST  
ONE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380982923

New MAIN MASS- NWA 4947, Eucrite, 18.15 gram - MAIN MASS - MAIN MASS  
Eucrite!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381225491

Hard To Find-BIG ROCK DONGA, Australia, H6 - ONLY ONE I HAVE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381377883

Rare Fall From Kansas-MODOC (1905) - 0.23 g ONLY ONE I HAVE- Very Rare.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381378536

Seldom Available POLUJAMKI, Russia, H4, 4.53g - Only One I have.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381223523

Nice Specimen of NWA 869, L4-6, 184 gram - VERY NICE LARGE SLICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381226915

Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-108.9g - Nice One!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380559087

Outstanding Silicated-Campo Del Cielo -17.12g - I love these silicated  
specimens!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380666575

Rare & Low TKW, DAVY (B), Texas, H4, 19.06g - Nice larger specimen!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380664707

METEORITE A Rare Ungrouped Iron-TRES CASTILLOS, 118g - Everyone else  
sells at $10.00 per gram-Check This One Out!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200382988758

Very Rare NWA 4468, Primitive Martian, 194mg  - REALLY NICE ONE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380978590

Rare NWA 1277, CO3.6, 50 gram End Cut - RARE & A GOOD DEAL!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200382990125

Cool End Cut of OUM DREYGA, Fall, H3-5, 137g - A really Great  
Specimen- Check it out!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200381376688

A very Rare EL3 From Africa, NWA 2965, 95.13g - I am running out of  
these!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380696034

CANYON DIABLO Individual, IAB Iron, 152 g - Nice Individual!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380709755

Semi Rare- TWODOT, H6 From Montana, 1.78g, Once was around, but seldom  
available these days.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380977278

Seldom Available COVERT, Kansas, H5, 5.28 g - Nice slice!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380711078

"A Good Buy" NWA 4300, H5 From Africa, 38g - Maybe my last one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380973637

Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-193.1g - A good one!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380731973

(New) NWA 5059, L4, 102 gram, *Good Price*
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380565763

Superb WAGON MOUND, New Mexico, 11.17 gram - great looking part slice
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380565090

(VERY NEW) The WEST, Texas Fall, L6, 0.39g - Nice One.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380555701

Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-13.29g - For some reason there  
are no photos showing for this one... worth bidding on though- be  
surprised!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380556347

Rare Carbonaceous CO3.6, NWA 1277, 1.71 gram- Pretty Rare
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380973362

(New) Olivine Diogenite-NWA 5480, 1.62 gram _ Rare.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380554751

(New) Fall, CHERGACH, Mali, Individual, 15.9g
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380559708

Classic American H6, OZONA, Texas, 3.06 gram
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380973967

SAYH AL UHAYMIR 001, L4/5, Oman, 14.68 gram- Nice Individual!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380696917

Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-76.96g- Very Nice
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380667257

NWA 3118, Outstanding CV3, Nice 2.76 gram
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380695692

Cool (NEW), NWA 5532, L3, S1,W2, 8.77 gram - MUST SEE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380672576

Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-242g -REALLY, REALLY NICE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380561350

IMILAC, Pallasite Individual From Chile,1.34g
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380558303

Choice Specimen From Northwest Africa-35.92g
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380556947

(New) Martian Shergottite, NWA 4925, "Mars"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200380557415

and many others....


Thanks and Best Wishes


Michael Cottingham






From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Sep 16 12:01:52 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:01:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Can Microbes Survive a Million-Year Space Journey?
	Experts Say Yes
Message-ID: <200909161601.n8GG1qqL001175@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://zikkir.com/scitech/691

Can Microbes Survive a Million-Year Space Journey? Experts Say Yes
By Jason McManus 
16 September 2009

In a unique experiment on a galactic scale, millions of bacterial spores
have been purposely exposed to space, to see how solar radiation affects
them and the results supported the idea that not only could life have
arrived on Earth on meteorites, but that considerable material has
flowed between planets.

Closer to home, scientists have analyzed aerial dust samples collected
by Charles Darwin and confirmed that microbes can travel across
continents without the need for planes or trains - rather bacteria and
fungi hitch-hike by attaching to dust particles. Their results clearly
show that diverse microbes, including ascomycetes, and eubacteria can
live for centuries and survive intercontinental travel.

In a paper published in Environmental Microbiology, Dr. Anna Gorbushina
(Carl-von-Ossietzky University, Oldenburg, Germany), Professor William
Broughton (University of Geneva, Switzerland) and their colleagues
analyzed dust samples collected by Charles Darwin and others almost 200
years ago.

Recent space-centric studies have shown that some rock-inhabiting
organisms, known as "endoliths," might be able to survive a trip through
space and a plunge through a planet???s atmosphere to the surface.
However, nobody knew whether these organisms could survive the initial
trip into space.

Recently, an international team of researchers, led by Gerda Horneck of
the Institute of Aerospace Medicine in Cologne, Germany, selected a
number of hardy microbes from Earth and tested their ability to
hitchhike aboard rocks similar to Martian meteorites.

The organisms used in the study included bacterial endospores,
endolithic cyanobacteria and lichens. This selection provided a wider
range of organisms than in other studies performed to date, including
not just simple bacteria but also more complex eukaryotic organisms.

The researchers looked at previous studies of Martian meteorites that
provided information about the kinds of forces needed to eject rocks
from a large planet. Using this data, the researchers developed a series
of tests designed to simulate these pressures on the selected organisms.

By smashing the life-containing rocks between metal plates, the
researchers were able to determine which organisms are capable of
surviving different pressures caused by asteroid impacts and ejection
into space. Ultimately, they discovered that a wide range of organisms
would be capable of surviving impacts on or Earth.

"Our results enlarge the number of potential organisms that might be
able to reseed a planetary surface after early very large impact events,
and suggest that such a re-seeding scenario on a planetary surface is
possible with diverse organisms," the researchers report.

In earlier experiments, Horneck and her colleagues used the Russian
Foton satellite to expose 50 million unprotected spores of the bacterium
Bacillus Subtilis outside the satellite. UV radiation from the Sun
killed nearly all of the spores, and did so even when the spores were
confined under quartz.

To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey through
space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 million spores
with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or simulated
Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in diameter. Between
10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million survived and when
mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting that even
meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one planet to
another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a rock a
meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of years.

In a separate experiment, another team ran computer models of giant
impacts like Chicxulub. In the simulations, millions of large boulders
were ejected from the earth. About 30 boulders from each Earth impact
even reached Titan, and they entered Tita's atmosphere slower than most
meteors hit Earth's atmosphere. Big rocks from Earth have no doubt
reached Enceladus, as well.

"That kind of entry should be no problem," agreed Allan Treiman of the
Lunar and Planetary Institute in Houston, quoted in New Scientist.
Bacteria were found in wreckage of the shuttle Columbia when it
re-entered Earth's atmosphere in 2003. And Earthly lichen survived when
exposed to the harsh environment of space.

The research is detailed in the Spring 2008 issue of the journal
Astrobiology.


From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Sep 16 13:21:56 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:21:56 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] CoRoT-7b rocks!
In-Reply-To: <8CC04AEE55369C3-1C24-17B1D@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC04AEE55369C3-1C24-17B1D@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <oj72b51i6dad5uphbp0u10mtcej2ea357k@4ax.com>

http://spacefellowship.com/2009/09/16/smallest-exoplanet-is-shown-to-be-a-solid-rocky-world/

Smallest exoplanet is shown to be a solid, rocky world
Published By
Matt
On: 16 September 2009 11:26 AM CEST  Source

The confirmation of the nature of CoRoT-7b as the first rocky planet outside our
Solar System marks a significant step forward in the search for Earth-like
exoplanets. The detection by CoRoT and follow-up radial velocity measurements
with HARPS suggest that this exoplanet, CoRoT-7b, has a density similar to that
of Mercury, Venus, Mars and Earth making it only the fifth known terrestrial
planet in the Universe.

The search for a habitable exoplanet is one of the holy grails in astronomy. One
of the first steps towards this goal is the detection of terrestrial planets
around solar-type stars. Dedicated programmes, using telescopes in space and on
ground, have yielded evidence for hundreds of planets outside of our Solar
System. The majority of these are giant, gaseous planets, but in recent years
small, almost Earth-mass planets have been detected demonstrating that the
discovery of Earth analogues ? exoplanets with one Earth mass or one Earth
radius orbiting a solar-type star at a distance of about 1 astronomical unit ?
is within reach.

Transit detections yield key physical properties

A number of techniques are routinely employed in the search for exoplanets:
spectroscopic radial velocity, astrometry, microlensing, photometric transits.
Of these, the search for transits ? the passage of the exoplanet in front of the
parent star ? provides unprecedented access to the planet?s physical properties.
In particular, the combination of transit photometry and radial velocity
measurements provides direct and very accurate estimates of the planetary mass
and radius, and hence mean density. These parameters in turn provide tight
constraints on the composition and physical structure of the planet and hence on
the likelihood of the exoplanet being a true Earth analogue.

The CoRoT space mission employs the transit strategy in the search for
exoplanets. Continuous observations, lasting about 150 days each, are made of
two large (4 square degrees) regions towards the centre and anti-centre of the
Galaxy. During the first of these observation periods towards the anti-centre
(October 2007 to March 2008), 46 stars exhibited evidence for transits, among
them CoRoT-7, a main-sequence, close-by (at a distance of 150 pc) solar-type
star.

The size is determined with photometry from CoRoT 


Investigation of the data, as described by Alain L?ger and colleagues, provided
compelling evidence for the presence of an exoplanet. The discovery was
announced earlier this year at which time the analysis of CoRoT data had shown
that CoRoT-7b (as the planet is known) has a diameter less than twice that of
Earth making it the smallest exoplanet (to date) orbiting a main-sequence star.
The CoRoT data also demonstrated that the planet is about 2.5 million km from
its parent star and orbits once every 20.4 hours.


 and HARPS radial velocity measurements provide the mass

Further progress, and in particular the determination of the planet mass, could
only be made by obtaining accurate measurements of the variation in the velocity
of the star caused by the gravitational pull of the orbiting planet. The need
for ground-based support observations for CoRoT had always been envisaged and
time on the HARPS spectrograph (at the ESO 3.6-m telescope at La Silla in Chile)
had been secured as a result of an ESA call for European co-investigators for
CoRoT. Didier Queloz and colleagues describe how almost 70 hours of observations
of the CoRoT-7 system with HARPS finally provided the sought-after result:
CoRoT-7b is one of the lightest exoplanets detected to date with a mass five
times that of the Earth. This puts CoRoT-7b firmly in the category of
?super-Earth? ? an exoplanet with a mass between that of Earth and gas giants.

A terrestrial exoplanet orbiting a solar-type star

Although about a dozen super-Earths have been detected CoRoT-7b is the first for
which both mass and radius estimates are available. Combining the radius
estimates from CoRoT and the mass estimates from HARPS results in an exoplanet
mean density of 5.5 g/cm3.   There are only three other known planets with
similar density: Earth, Mercury and Venus (Mars is less dense) which strongly
suggests that the planet is a solid, rocky planet.

?We are coming tantalising close to reaching the ultimate goal of detecting a
true Earth-like planet,? comments Malcolm Fridlund, ESA CoRoT Project Scientist
and member of the CoRoT Science Team. ?This bodes well for future exoplanet
search missions, such as the Cosmic Vision candidate, PLATO.?

About CoRoT

CoRoT is a mission led by the French national space agency, CNES. ESA has joined
the mission by providing the optics and baffle for the telescope and testing of
the payload. Through this collaboration a number of European scientists, from
Denmark, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and Portugal, have been selected as
Co-Investigators in open competition. As a result of ESA?s participation in
CoRoT, scientists from ESA?s Member States have access to the satellite?s data.

ESA?s Research and Scientific Support department (RSSD) at ESTEC is a full
partner in CoRoT by providing the on-board Data Processing Units (DPU?s). Other
partners in CoRoT are Austria, Spain, Germany, Belgium and Brazil.

The ESA PRODEX programme has supported the development of the CoRoT telescope
baffle, and the software development and data processing of CoRoT light curves.

The ground stations used for CoRoT are located in Kiruna (S), Aussaguel (F)
Hartebeesthoek (South Africa), Kourou (French Guyana), with mission-specific
ground stations in Alcantara (Brazil) and Vienna (A).


From fujmon at mac.com  Wed Sep 16 11:23:49 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:23:49 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-ebay auctions ending Saturday
Message-ID: <45D199EE-025C-4806-8170-760F78D30CDD@mac.com>

Good morning from sunny San Francisco!  I have some meteorites on ebay  
auction ending this Saturday, Sep 19 beginning at 11:02 PDT.  Up on  
the block are:

NWA 869 individuals of aesthetic shape and orientation
NWA x unclassified oriented nosecone
Sah 02500 complete individual
Chergach - complete fusion crusted stone
NWA x CV3 - small, flat carbonaceous
Bassikounou - 99% FC
Lava Olivine Xenolith - Bombs Away!

Mahalo to all those who won my auctions last week - your specimens are  
on the way!

Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Wed Sep 16 12:48:15 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:48:15 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Can Microbes Survive a Million-Year Space Journey?
	Experts Say Yes
Message-ID: <2D4D2972975F4C14AD4CC56682083A28@ET>

Can Microbes Survive a Million-Year Space Journey? Experts Say Yes
By Jason McManus
16 September 2009

In a unique experiment on a galactic scale, millions of bacterial spores
have been purposely exposed to space, to see how solar radiation affects
them and the results supported the idea that not only could life have
arrived on Earth on meteorites, but that considerable material has
flowed between planets.

Closer to home, scientists have analyzed aerial dust samples collected
by Charles Darwin and confirmed that microbes can travel across
continents without the need for planes or trains - rather bacteria and
fungi hitch-hike by attaching to dust particles. Their results clearly
show that diverse microbes, including ascomycetes, and eubacteria can
live for centuries and survive intercontinental travel.
----------------------------------------------------

It takes a huge leap of faith to go from a few centuries and 
intercontinental travel to MILLIONS of years traveling in OUTER SPACE! 
Extrapolation to the extreme.

If the UV doesn't get 'em surely the Van Allen radiation will  over the (how 
many years?) in a declining orbit around the Earth.

Quote: "In a rock a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for 
millions of years"
Re(butt)al: "Yes, and monkeys could probably fly out of my butt."

So where exactly  are these imaginary panspermic endospores coming from? 
Certainly not from Mars. My guess is an undiscovered planet called Pie In 
The Sky.

Of course, it'll only take the discovery of one single ET in a meteorite for 
me to adjust my belief system accordingly.

Emperically yours,

Phil Whitmer



From grf2 at comcast.net  Wed Sep 16 13:07:20 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:07:20 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocky planet find enlivens search for ET live
Message-ID: <B34F2FA1B157445E991B4B5813542BEC@ASUS>

http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSTRE58F1M220090916
http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSTRE58F1M220090916
Jerry Flaherty


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Wed Sep 16 13:10:55 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:10:55 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid (Black Holes, Gravity,
	Lightspeed...)
Message-ID: <181B88C44EF04F72A35EC84151EE92F3@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Steve, List,

>  the event horizons are so small it would require speeds
> faster than light for them to suck any new matter in.

    The definition of the "event horizon" is that it is like
a "surface" whose escape velocity is equal to the speed
of light. (Actually, it's a leeetil more complicated if the
black hole is rotating or charged or both, creating an
ergosphere of multiple horizons, blah, blah, but we're
not going there.)

    It is gravity that creates the black hole. General
Relativity predicts, and the universe has demonstrated,
that gravity exerts a force on EVERYTHING, including
light. The Eddington 1919 proof of Relativity, the first
proof of the theory, showed that the powerful gravity
of the Sun bends light rays that pass near it.

    At the event horizon, the force of gravity is so
strong that a photon of light heading straight up
away from the black hole at the speed of light is
standing still ! If you find that hard to picture,
don't worry -- it's impossible to picture. So, let's
try.

    Ignoring the quadrillions of gee's tugging on
you, picture yourself standing on a big black ball
with a flashlight pointing up. You turn it on and
nothing happens. You look down into the flashlight;
there's a pool of photons in the bottom of the lamp
housing. You tilt it slightly and some photons pour
out. They drip down in an arc and fall back to the
surface like water.

    Of course, this is all physically impossible but
it's what the photons do. And -- just "above" the
event horizon -- time has come to a near standstill.
AT the event horizon, time IS standing still. Just
above the event horizon, a second lasts for a trillion
years... to an outside observer. All because of gravity.
And one final craziness -- not only does gravity exert
a force on light (and everything else), it even exerts
a force on ITSELF ! Now, that IS crazy. But true.

    About this time, you're saying "Heck! You're
crazier than those aliens I've been talking to. What
have you been drinking?" Nothing but water, friend.

    The "speed" of expansion, now, is only a speed
relative to us. You're mixing up old Newtonian
absolute space speed and Einsteinian speed of one
frame of reference relative to another frame of
reference. The "edge" of the Universe isn't an "edge"
at all -- it's a perfectly normal place -- if you were
there instead of here. And if you WERE there instead
of here, then "here" would be the edge of the expansion
of the universe. The "edge" is just the limit to the
portion of the universe that we can observe.

    All because the universe has a Speed Limit. We
don't need Relativity Cops -- this universal speed limit
enforces itself !  There are these signs everywhere:

            "Speed Limit:
            Speed of Light.
            It isn't just a good idea --
            IT'S THE LAW !"


 Sterling K. Webb
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
> To: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
>
>
> if my info gathered from my alien abduction exp is correct. mini black 
> holes are atoms , they are stable because the event horizons are so 
> small it would require speeds faster than light for them to suck any 
> new matter in. larger black holes while theoretical are not possible 
> because collisions with a large enough object cause them to go nova. 
> which creates elements greater than iron. we measure the speed of 
> light by the distance it travels in a specific amount of time. if time 
> is the inverse of the universe wave then the farther you travel out 
> from the center the slower time moves. if time stops at the speed of 
> light so does the universe expansion. there is no possible way from 
> our current vectors to determin universe expansion or contraction 
> without taking into account the spin of the universe. the universe 
> being a wave which is expanding at the speed of light will reach an 
> equilibrium where the universe stops with time stopping. if time has 
> stoopped
> at the edge limit of the universe then it can niether expand nor 
> contract and will reach a steady state.where time stopping prevents it 
> from expanding and it can't collapse for the same reason. the observed 
> curve of the universe is  because of the spin. which causes doppler 
> shift. small particles in the universe bounce around like a beach ball 
> in waves close to shore as large particles float smoothly by '
>
> befor you try to castrate me for making these claims i will apolagise 
> in advance! brain tumors like i have in the temporal regions realy 
> cause a lot of problems.
> have a great day
> Steve Dunklee
>
> --- On Tue, 9/15/09, Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> 
> wrote:
>
>> From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
>> To: "Chris Peterson" <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>, 
>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 7:58 PM
>> Hi, Chris, List,
>>
>> Like all physicists, by minimum or
>> nomimal,
>> I mean whatever size is needed to make things
>> turn out just the way I said they would. Same
>> applies to the encounter velocity and all the other
>> parameters. I would choose exactly the right size
>> and velocity, according to the time-honored
>> "Goldilocks" Principle !
>>
>> Theoretically, there are still people
>> arguing
>> that a singularity is only mathematically possible
>> but not possible in reality and while there are
>> hyperdense objects there are no black holes (and
>> using the same math to prove that as those who
>> think they DO exist in reality). And in practicality,
>> no pictures of a black hole I know of. (Just the
>> idea of a picture of a black hole makes me laugh.)
>>
>> So, going with Hawking's Primordial Black
>> Holes
>> (not created by some later event), The PBH would
>> have to be at least 10^12 kg in mass when it was
>> created to survive this long. 10^12 kg is actually
>> quite small - the Earth has a mass of 6x10^24 kg -
>> so we are talking about a mass about equal to a
>> small mountain, like the Chicxulub impactor,
>> oddly enough.
>>
>> Of course, it's a black hole so it isn't
>> the SIZE
>> of a small mountain; it's more like the size of a proton.
>> It will zip through the Earth without disturbing it.
>> But it will leave a microscopic "tube" of radiatively
>> disturbed matter along its path, almost impossible
>> (and highly unlikely) to be detected. We would never
>> know that the event had happened.
>>
>> This has all been worked out in detail by
>> I. B.
>> Khriplovich, A. A. Pomeransky, N. Produit and C. Yu.
>> Ruban, in their paper: "Can one detect passage of
>> a small black hole through the Earth?"
>> http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0710/0710.3438v1.pdf
>>
>> There is no reason to expect such a
>> reasonable
>> result from a black hole with the mass of the Earth
>> itself. Such a monster would be HUGE, about as
>> big as a GOLF BALL! The gravitational consequences
>> would be catastrophic. Absurdly one tends to imagine
>> that if it were fast enough... (Equation 13; energy loss
>> is inversely proportional to velocity of the black hole
>> passing through the Earth, and who am I to doubt the
>> word of these fine gentlemen of Novosibirsk?.)
>>
>> Just to show there are no new ideas, it
>> has been
>> suggested that Tunguska was a black hole penetrator:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event#Black_hole
>> as well as it has been suggested it was antimatter.
>> Take your pick.
>>
>> And, mercifully, I did not discuss the
>> next best
>> alternatives for Whole Earth Penetrators. First, the
>> small chunk of degenerate matter or neutronium,
>> and second, the Antimatter Bullet. I think that it
>> would be harder to shoot right through the Earth
>> with them (although possibly just as easy to totally
>> destroy it).
>>
>> The question was: what would go right
>> through
>> the Earth? I still think the Black Hole Bullet is the
>> best choice for the job of going right through the Earth.
>>
>> Of course, if all you want to do is mine
>> the Earth
>> after reducing it to small chunks, I suggest injecting
>> a Neutronium Bullet and a Positronium Bullet to
>> spiral around until they meet each other at the
>> center of the Earth's core, combine, and distrupt
>> the entire planet for the easiest collection of the
>> raw materials by the waiting Alien Fleet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sterling K. Webb
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Peterson" 
>> <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:07 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
>>
>>
>> > The tricky bit is how you define a "minimum size black
>> hole". If you mean minimum in terms of the fundamental
>> physics, such a black hole could have been orbiting inside
>> the Earth since the Solar System formed, and it still would
>> not have consumed enough material to make its presence
>> known. If you mean minimum in terms of fundamental physics,
>> but make the thing big enough to be stable (to consume
>> material faster than it can evaporate)... I don't now how
>> long that would take to consume Earth. And if you mean
>> minimum in terms of how most theory (and all observation)
>> mean it- on the order of a stellar mass- well, clearly
>> things will get real bad, real fast if one intersects the
>> Earth, no matter how fast or slow it's going.
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>> > *****************************************
>> > Chris L Peterson
>> > Cloudbait Observatory
>> > http://www.cloudbait.com
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sterling K. Webb"
>> <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
>> > To: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>;
>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:52 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hi, Carl, List,
>> >>
>> >> Two impactors of identical mass (not
>> size,
>> >> because density varies, but mass), hitting with
>> >> identical speeds and at identical angles produce
>> >> virtually identical craters.
>> >>
>> >> All that matters (if the object is
>> bigger than
>> >> 20-50 meters is kinetic energy. It could be iron,
>> >> it could be rock, it could be ice, it could be
>> highly
>> >> compressed chicken feathers or a ball of
>> fossilized
>> >> fast food --- all would have the same result.
>> >>
>> >> A porous carboneaous chondrite of 10
>> km diameter
>> >> and an iron ball of 5.85 km, weigh the same, and
>> at
>> >> 20 km/s and a 60-degree angle, both will produce
>> a
>> >> 65 mile crater 3/4 of a mile deep.
>> >>
>> >> There are high-iridium iron
>> meteorites as well as
>> >> stony ones, but an iron impact will leave other
>> traces
>> >> not found around Chicxulub.
>> >>
>> >> Now... the fun part! What WOULD go
>> right through
>> >> the Earth?! It would have to be very dense so that
>> its
>> >> area was very small for its huge mass. Number one
>> >> best candidate is a small fast black hole. I
>> specify "fast"
>> >> because if it was slow-moving, it might slow
>> enough to
>> >> stop inside the Earth or start orbiting around
>> inside
>> >> the planet, madly eating up mantle and core
>> material
>> >> as it went until...
>> >>
>> >> Wow! makes me want to drag that heavy
>> John
>> >> Wheeler book off the top shelf and start
>> scribbling.
>> >> Given a black-hole of minimum mass and size
>> >> m-sub-bh <<<< m-sub-earth, how long
>> would it take
>> >> to eat the entire Earth? Well, even without
>> numbers,
>> >> one can see that initially the mass consumption
>> of
>> >> the small black hole would be very modest, but as
>> it
>> >> grew and grew, the rate would increase by a power
>> >> curve following the exponent of the ratio of black
>> hole
>> >> surface to black hole mass until the black hole
>> reached
>> >> a certain fraction of the Earth's mass and then a
>> >> destructive deformation would occur in a
>> catastrophic
>> >> fashion... It could take thousands of years. There
>> could
>> >> be one there now. (Not true; we would hear it.)
>> >>
>> >> But if it was a FAST black hole, it
>> would go straight
>> >> through the Earth with only the equivalent of a
>> black
>> >> hole burp and perhaps produce a massive episode
>> of
>> >> basalt flood vulcanism as it exited. Silly notion.
>> We don't
>> >> have massive basalt flood vulcanism... What's
>> that?
>> >> We do? Every how often? Hmm. You don't
>> suppose...?
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> 



From wahlperry at aol.com  Wed Sep 16 14:14:02 2009
From: wahlperry at aol.com (wahlperry at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:14:02 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of theDay-September14,
 2009/ Recent Meteorite hunting trips to this area
In-Reply-To: <1514118119-1253115212-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-756043126-@bda267.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <2082585294-1253034942-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1558745213-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><FC5105B04363410AA03EF541D2C8D263@JeffPC>
	<1514118119-1253115212-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-756043126-@bda267.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <8CC05109AE1CE37-3B3C-670B@webmail-m043.sysops.aol.com>

Hi Michael and list,

Great pictures!  Has any one been to the Sikhote-alin strewn field to 
hunt meteorites recently? Or is this area still of limits to hunting?

Thanks,

Sonny


-----Original Message-----
From: spacerocksinc at aol.com
To: Jeff Kuyken <info at meteorites.com.au>; 
meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com; 
meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 16, 2009 8:33 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of 
theDay-September14, 2009






I have added a few photos from the impact site along with Matt's great 
piece
here:
http://www.sikhote-alin.org/sikhote-alin-1947.html

Michael Johnson
http://www.rocksfromspace.org

Thumbed On My BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "Jeff Kuyken" <info at meteorites.com.au>

Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:10:45
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the
    Day-September14, 2009


Hi all,

Most of you have probably seen it already but for anyone following this
thread there is footage of a couple of trees in the Sikhote-Alin 
documentary
where pieces have gone clean through them. It's at about 6:08.

http://www.meteorites.com.au/odds&ends/sikhote-alin.html

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Morgan" <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
To: <GeoZay at aol.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:14 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the
Day-September14, 2009


> George
> I don't think the heat was from the small meteorite itself, but the
> kinetic energy released by the impacting bodies. There was enough 
energy
> to form craters/pits that were 20-30m wide and down trees.
> Like in all cratering events, there was a hot air blast caused by the
> energy release which may have charred the outside of the trees.
>
> This is just a possible way to explain the charring, if in fact, that 
is
> what I am seeing on the bark of the tree (again, not behind the small
> meteorite).
> Matt
> ------Original Message------
> From: GeoZay at aol.com
> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the
> Day -September14, 2009
> Sent: Sep 15, 2009 11:04 AM
>
>>>I don't see any charring...only  staining/rust. <<
>
> Wanting to expand a little here...assuming the  tree was alive when
> struck,
> I don't think a small meteorite would carry enuf  heat to cause any
> charring that would be noticed today. Being one who relies on  a 
woodstove
> as their
> primary source of heat, I can attest that it's a real bear  to get 
wet
> wood
> to even think about burning. If it was a dead tree, I still  doubt 
there
> would be enuf heat in this small piece to cause anything to burn. If  
a
> small
> piece was hot enuf to cause any charring, I can only imagine how much
> heat
> would be in the larger pieces...were there any burnt trees in the
> strewnfield area? I can't tell from the photograph, but was this 
piece a
> fragment or
> an individual?
> George Zay
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ----------------------
> Matt Morgan
> Mile High Meteorites
> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> P.O. Box 151293
> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list







From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 15:23:32 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:23:32 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
Message-ID: <f0a794130909161223w52a54312x69c8e2fd7d5219bf@mail.gmail.com>

I?ve gotten about six strange rock reports so far which is great! It
shows the locals know meteorites could be on the ground and they are
keeping an eye out for them. I have been able to identify most of the
rocks I?ve seen so far, but this one in particular I?m not sure about.
If anyone knows what this rock is please let me know. It is very hard
and magnetic seemed like a lot of metal in it. It is pretty weathered
and hard to tell if it has a crust on it or not.

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock1.jpg

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock2.jpg

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock3.jpg

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock4.jpg


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Wed Sep 16 15:26:00 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:26:00 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW EXOPLANET CoRoT-7b rocks!
References: <8CC04AEE55369C3-1C24-17B1D@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com>
	<oj72b51i6dad5uphbp0u10mtcej2ea357k@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <16376FE94AED4CE79272C4875333BE7B@ATARIENGINE2>

Next another, slightly more detailed announcement
of the CoRoT-7b data:
http://www.sflorg.com/spacenews/sn091609_01.html

When I get data, I like to crunch it, and we have
enough for some solid nibbling on the new planet.

* The name of its star is TYC 4799-1733-1. (Needs
a sexier name than that.) It's a young star, only
about 1.5 billion years old. CoRoT-7b Is 23 times
closer to its star than Mercury is to our Sun. The
star, TYC 4799-1733-1, rotates once every 23 days,
very comparable to our Sun's rotation period. A
"normal" solar system, whatever that is.

* The planet has a diameter of about 14,000 miles
(and an equatorial circumference of 44,420 miles)
and a surface area 3.25 times that of Earth.

* It has an escape velocity of 26,400 m/sec (18.85
mi/sec) , or 2.36 times greater than Earth's escape
velocity. Leaving CoRoT-7b is a lot of work.

* The surface gravity is 1.543 times that of the
Earth's surface gravity, which would be survivable
if only the place weren't So Darned Hot.

* The CoRoT-7b "year" is only 20 hours 24 min. long.
It's probably safe to assume it always faces its Sun.
Or is it? We used to assume Mercury always showed
one face to the Sun, but it ain't necessarily so. If
CoRoT-7b is in a 3:2 resonance like Mercury, its
"day" would be 13 hours 36 min. long, which
would keep the surface uniformly toasty.

* It's only 2.5 million km (1.5 million miles) from
its star, so it's really hot -- 1000 C to 1500 C.

* The actual density of CoRoT-7b is 6.433 times
that of water because its immense mass crushes
its core to a high central density, but corrected
for compression, it's said to be 5.5, just like all
us Earths.

* Because of its size and mass, its crust will be
thin and plastic, with the lower crust probably
molten and liquid. It is doubtful that much surface
relief could be supported -- no high mountains,
although the higher gravity will give them steeper
outlines.  The thin crust will easily sink anywhere,
even though it won't sink fast. The crust should
be young and well-mixed with little compositional
differences.

* Its atmosphere is anybody's guess. It could be
metallic and heavier element vapors. It could be
high pressure steam, very deep, with an albedo
of 0.93 over deep H20 oceans, although it's hard
to see how it could retain water that close to its
star, even for a mere 1.5 billion years and despite
the fact that if it had the same percentage of water
in its makeup as the Earth, its surface oceans
would be 60% deeper than Earth's oceans.
Atmospheric guessing is really unreliable.

* It makes the our Venus's Hell look like an air-
conditioned tropical paradise by comparison...


Sterling K. Webb
------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Darren Garrison" <cynapse at charter.net>
To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:21 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] CoRoT-7b rocks!


http://spacefellowship.com/2009/09/16/smallest-exoplanet-is-shown-to-be-a-solid-rocky-world/

Smallest exoplanet is shown to be a solid, rocky world
Published By
Matt
On: 16 September 2009 11:26 AM CEST  Source

The confirmation of the nature of CoRoT-7b as the first rocky planet 
outside our
Solar System marks a significant step forward in the search for 
Earth-like
exoplanets. The detection by CoRoT and follow-up radial velocity 
measurements
with HARPS suggest that this exoplanet, CoRoT-7b, has a density similar 
to that
of Mercury, Venus, Mars and Earth making it only the fifth known 
terrestrial
planet in the Universe.

The search for a habitable exoplanet is one of the holy grails in 
astronomy. One
of the first steps towards this goal is the detection of terrestrial 
planets
around solar-type stars. Dedicated programmes, using telescopes in space 
and on
ground, have yielded evidence for hundreds of planets outside of our 
Solar
System. The majority of these are giant, gaseous planets, but in recent 
years
small, almost Earth-mass planets have been detected demonstrating that 
the
discovery of Earth analogues - exoplanets with one Earth mass or one 
Earth
radius orbiting a solar-type star at a distance of about 1 astronomical 
unit -
is within reach.

Transit detections yield key physical properties

A number of techniques are routinely employed in the search for 
exoplanets:
spectroscopic radial velocity, astrometry, microlensing, photometric 
transits.
Of these, the search for transits - the passage of the exoplanet in 
front of the
parent star - provides unprecedented access to the planet's physical 
properties.
In particular, the combination of transit photometry and radial velocity
measurements provides direct and very accurate estimates of the 
planetary mass
and radius, and hence mean density. These parameters in turn provide 
tight
constraints on the composition and physical structure of the planet and 
hence on
the likelihood of the exoplanet being a true Earth analogue.

The CoRoT space mission employs the transit strategy in the search for
exoplanets. Continuous observations, lasting about 150 days each, are 
made of
two large (4 square degrees) regions towards the centre and anti-centre 
of the
Galaxy. During the first of these observation periods towards the 
anti-centre
(October 2007 to March 2008), 46 stars exhibited evidence for transits, 
among
them CoRoT-7, a main-sequence, close-by (at a distance of 150 pc) 
solar-type
star.

The size is determined with photometry from CoRoT .

Investigation of the data, as described by Alain L?ger and colleagues, 
provided
compelling evidence for the presence of an exoplanet. The discovery was
announced earlier this year at which time the analysis of CoRoT data had 
shown
that CoRoT-7b (as the planet is known) has a diameter less than twice 
that of
Earth making it the smallest exoplanet (to date) orbiting a 
main-sequence star.
The CoRoT data also demonstrated that the planet is about 2.5 million km 
from
its parent star and orbits once every 20.4 hours.

. and HARPS radial velocity measurements provide the mass

Further progress, and in particular the determination of the planet 
mass, could
only be made by obtaining accurate measurements of the variation in the 
velocity
of the star caused by the gravitational pull of the orbiting planet. The 
need
for ground-based support observations for CoRoT had always been 
envisaged and
time on the HARPS spectrograph (at the ESO 3.6-m telescope at La Silla 
in Chile)
had been secured as a result of an ESA call for European 
co-investigators for
CoRoT. Didier Queloz and colleagues describe how almost 70 hours of 
observations
of the CoRoT-7 system with HARPS finally provided the sought-after 
result:
CoRoT-7b is one of the lightest exoplanets detected to date with a mass 
five
times that of the Earth. This puts CoRoT-7b firmly in the category of
"super-Earth" - an exoplanet with a mass between that of Earth and gas 
giants.

A terrestrial exoplanet orbiting a solar-type star

Although about a dozen super-Earths have been detected CoRoT-7b is the 
first for
which both mass and radius estimates are available. Combining the radius
estimates from CoRoT and the mass estimates from HARPS results in an 
exoplanet
mean density of 5.5 g/cm3.   There are only three other known planets 
with
similar density: Earth, Mercury and Venus (Mars is less dense) which 
strongly
suggests that the planet is a solid, rocky planet.

"We are coming tantalising close to reaching the ultimate goal of 
detecting a
true Earth-like planet," comments Malcolm Fridlund, ESA CoRoT Project 
Scientist
and member of the CoRoT Science Team. "This bodes well for future 
exoplanet
search missions, such as the Cosmic Vision candidate, PLATO."

About CoRoT

CoRoT is a mission led by the French national space agency, CNES. ESA 
has joined
the mission by providing the optics and baffle for the telescope and 
testing of
the payload. Through this collaboration a number of European scientists, 
from
Denmark, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and Portugal, have been 
selected as
Co-Investigators in open competition. As a result of ESA's participation 
in
CoRoT, scientists from ESA's Member States have access to the 
satellite's data.

ESA's Research and Scientific Support department (RSSD) at ESTEC is a 
full
partner in CoRoT by providing the on-board Data Processing Units 
(DPU's). Other
partners in CoRoT are Austria, Spain, Germany, Belgium and Brazil.

The ESA PRODEX programme has supported the development of the CoRoT 
telescope
baffle, and the software development and data processing of CoRoT light 
curves.

The ground stations used for CoRoT are located in Kiruna (S), Aussaguel 
(F)
Hartebeesthoek (South Africa), Kourou (French Guyana), with 
mission-specific
ground stations in Alcantara (Brazil) and Vienna (A).
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From grf2 at comcast.net  Wed Sep 16 15:29:38 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:29:38 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid (Black Holes, Gravity,
	Lightspeed...)
References: <181B88C44EF04F72A35EC84151EE92F3@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <0032CAE26F614C7DAE1331F2BE768507@ASUS>

Awe shucks there goes my opportunity to get to Andromeda before dinner

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 1:10 PM
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid (Black Holes, 
Gravity,Lightspeed...)

> Hi, Steve, List,
>
>>  the event horizons are so small it would require speeds
>> faster than light for them to suck any new matter in.
>
>    The definition of the "event horizon" is that it is like
> a "surface" whose escape velocity is equal to the speed
> of light. (Actually, it's a leeetil more complicated if the
> black hole is rotating or charged or both, creating an
> ergosphere of multiple horizons, blah, blah, but we're
> not going there.)
>
>    It is gravity that creates the black hole. General
> Relativity predicts, and the universe has demonstrated,
> that gravity exerts a force on EVERYTHING, including
> light. The Eddington 1919 proof of Relativity, the first
> proof of the theory, showed that the powerful gravity
> of the Sun bends light rays that pass near it.
>
>    At the event horizon, the force of gravity is so
> strong that a photon of light heading straight up
> away from the black hole at the speed of light is
> standing still ! If you find that hard to picture,
> don't worry -- it's impossible to picture. So, let's
> try.
>
>    Ignoring the quadrillions of gee's tugging on
> you, picture yourself standing on a big black ball
> with a flashlight pointing up. You turn it on and
> nothing happens. You look down into the flashlight;
> there's a pool of photons in the bottom of the lamp
> housing. You tilt it slightly and some photons pour
> out. They drip down in an arc and fall back to the
> surface like water.
>
>    Of course, this is all physically impossible but
> it's what the photons do. And -- just "above" the
> event horizon -- time has come to a near standstill.
> AT the event horizon, time IS standing still. Just
> above the event horizon, a second lasts for a trillion
> years... to an outside observer. All because of gravity.
> And one final craziness -- not only does gravity exert
> a force on light (and everything else), it even exerts
> a force on ITSELF ! Now, that IS crazy. But true.
>
>    About this time, you're saying "Heck! You're
> crazier than those aliens I've been talking to. What
> have you been drinking?" Nothing but water, friend.
>
>    The "speed" of expansion, now, is only a speed
> relative to us. You're mixing up old Newtonian
> absolute space speed and Einsteinian speed of one
> frame of reference relative to another frame of
> reference. The "edge" of the Universe isn't an "edge"
> at all -- it's a perfectly normal place -- if you were
> there instead of here. And if you WERE there instead
> of here, then "here" would be the edge of the expansion
> of the universe. The "edge" is just the limit to the
> portion of the universe that we can observe.
>
>    All because the universe has a Speed Limit. We
> don't need Relativity Cops -- this universal speed limit
> enforces itself !  There are these signs everywhere:
>
>            "Speed Limit:
>            Speed of Light.
>            It isn't just a good idea --
>            IT'S THE LAW !"
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
>> To: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
>>
>>
>> if my info gathered from my alien abduction exp is correct. mini black 
>> holes are atoms , they are stable because the event horizons are so small 
>> it would require speeds faster than light for them to suck any new matter 
>> in. larger black holes while theoretical are not possible because 
>> collisions with a large enough object cause them to go nova. which 
>> creates elements greater than iron. we measure the speed of light by the 
>> distance it travels in a specific amount of time. if time is the inverse 
>> of the universe wave then the farther you travel out from the center the 
>> slower time moves. if time stops at the speed of light so does the 
>> universe expansion. there is no possible way from our current vectors to 
>> determin universe expansion or contraction without taking into account 
>> the spin of the universe. the universe being a wave which is expanding at 
>> the speed of light will reach an equilibrium where the universe stops 
>> with time stopping. if time has stoopped
>> at the edge limit of the universe then it can niether expand nor contract 
>> and will reach a steady state.where time stopping prevents it from 
>> expanding and it can't collapse for the same reason. the observed curve 
>> of the universe is  because of the spin. which causes doppler shift. 
>> small particles in the universe bounce around like a beach ball in waves 
>> close to shore as large particles float smoothly by '
>>
>> befor you try to castrate me for making these claims i will apolagise in 
>> advance! brain tumors like i have in the temporal regions realy cause a 
>> lot of problems.
>> have a great day
>> Steve Dunklee
>>
>> --- On Tue, 9/15/09, Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
>>> To: "Chris Peterson" <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>, 
>>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 7:58 PM
>>> Hi, Chris, List,
>>>
>>> Like all physicists, by minimum or
>>> nomimal,
>>> I mean whatever size is needed to make things
>>> turn out just the way I said they would. Same
>>> applies to the encounter velocity and all the other
>>> parameters. I would choose exactly the right size
>>> and velocity, according to the time-honored
>>> "Goldilocks" Principle !
>>>
>>> Theoretically, there are still people
>>> arguing
>>> that a singularity is only mathematically possible
>>> but not possible in reality and while there are
>>> hyperdense objects there are no black holes (and
>>> using the same math to prove that as those who
>>> think they DO exist in reality). And in practicality,
>>> no pictures of a black hole I know of. (Just the
>>> idea of a picture of a black hole makes me laugh.)
>>>
>>> So, going with Hawking's Primordial Black
>>> Holes
>>> (not created by some later event), The PBH would
>>> have to be at least 10^12 kg in mass when it was
>>> created to survive this long. 10^12 kg is actually
>>> quite small - the Earth has a mass of 6x10^24 kg -
>>> so we are talking about a mass about equal to a
>>> small mountain, like the Chicxulub impactor,
>>> oddly enough.
>>>
>>> Of course, it's a black hole so it isn't
>>> the SIZE
>>> of a small mountain; it's more like the size of a proton.
>>> It will zip through the Earth without disturbing it.
>>> But it will leave a microscopic "tube" of radiatively
>>> disturbed matter along its path, almost impossible
>>> (and highly unlikely) to be detected. We would never
>>> know that the event had happened.
>>>
>>> This has all been worked out in detail by
>>> I. B.
>>> Khriplovich, A. A. Pomeransky, N. Produit and C. Yu.
>>> Ruban, in their paper: "Can one detect passage of
>>> a small black hole through the Earth?"
>>> http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0710/0710.3438v1.pdf
>>>
>>> There is no reason to expect such a
>>> reasonable
>>> result from a black hole with the mass of the Earth
>>> itself. Such a monster would be HUGE, about as
>>> big as a GOLF BALL! The gravitational consequences
>>> would be catastrophic. Absurdly one tends to imagine
>>> that if it were fast enough... (Equation 13; energy loss
>>> is inversely proportional to velocity of the black hole
>>> passing through the Earth, and who am I to doubt the
>>> word of these fine gentlemen of Novosibirsk?.)
>>>
>>> Just to show there are no new ideas, it
>>> has been
>>> suggested that Tunguska was a black hole penetrator:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunguska_event#Black_hole
>>> as well as it has been suggested it was antimatter.
>>> Take your pick.
>>>
>>> And, mercifully, I did not discuss the
>>> next best
>>> alternatives for Whole Earth Penetrators. First, the
>>> small chunk of degenerate matter or neutronium,
>>> and second, the Antimatter Bullet. I think that it
>>> would be harder to shoot right through the Earth
>>> with them (although possibly just as easy to totally
>>> destroy it).
>>>
>>> The question was: what would go right
>>> through
>>> the Earth? I still think the Black Hole Bullet is the
>>> best choice for the job of going right through the Earth.
>>>
>>> Of course, if all you want to do is mine
>>> the Earth
>>> after reducing it to small chunks, I suggest injecting
>>> a Neutronium Bullet and a Positronium Bullet to
>>> spiral around until they meet each other at the
>>> center of the Earth's core, combine, and distrupt
>>> the entire planet for the easiest collection of the
>>> raw materials by the waiting Alien Fleet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sterling K. Webb
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Peterson" 
>>> <clp at alumni.caltech.edu>
>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:07 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
>>>
>>>
>>> > The tricky bit is how you define a "minimum size black
>>> hole". If you mean minimum in terms of the fundamental
>>> physics, such a black hole could have been orbiting inside
>>> the Earth since the Solar System formed, and it still would
>>> not have consumed enough material to make its presence
>>> known. If you mean minimum in terms of fundamental physics,
>>> but make the thing big enough to be stable (to consume
>>> material faster than it can evaporate)... I don't now how
>>> long that would take to consume Earth. And if you mean
>>> minimum in terms of how most theory (and all observation)
>>> mean it- on the order of a stellar mass- well, clearly
>>> things will get real bad, real fast if one intersects the
>>> Earth, no matter how fast or slow it's going.
>>> >
>>> > Chris
>>> >
>>> > *****************************************
>>> > Chris L Peterson
>>> > Cloudbait Observatory
>>> > http://www.cloudbait.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sterling K. Webb"
>>> <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
>>> > To: "Carl 's" <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com>;
>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:52 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Chicxulub Asteroid
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Hi, Carl, List,
>>> >>
>>> >> Two impactors of identical mass (not
>>> size,
>>> >> because density varies, but mass), hitting with
>>> >> identical speeds and at identical angles produce
>>> >> virtually identical craters.
>>> >>
>>> >> All that matters (if the object is
>>> bigger than
>>> >> 20-50 meters is kinetic energy. It could be iron,
>>> >> it could be rock, it could be ice, it could be
>>> highly
>>> >> compressed chicken feathers or a ball of
>>> fossilized
>>> >> fast food --- all would have the same result.
>>> >>
>>> >> A porous carboneaous chondrite of 10
>>> km diameter
>>> >> and an iron ball of 5.85 km, weigh the same, and
>>> at
>>> >> 20 km/s and a 60-degree angle, both will produce
>>> a
>>> >> 65 mile crater 3/4 of a mile deep.
>>> >>
>>> >> There are high-iridium iron
>>> meteorites as well as
>>> >> stony ones, but an iron impact will leave other
>>> traces
>>> >> not found around Chicxulub.
>>> >>
>>> >> Now... the fun part! What WOULD go
>>> right through
>>> >> the Earth?! It would have to be very dense so that
>>> its
>>> >> area was very small for its huge mass. Number one
>>> >> best candidate is a small fast black hole. I
>>> specify "fast"
>>> >> because if it was slow-moving, it might slow
>>> enough to
>>> >> stop inside the Earth or start orbiting around
>>> inside
>>> >> the planet, madly eating up mantle and core
>>> material
>>> >> as it went until...
>>> >>
>>> >> Wow! makes me want to drag that heavy
>>> John
>>> >> Wheeler book off the top shelf and start
>>> scribbling.
>>> >> Given a black-hole of minimum mass and size
>>> >> m-sub-bh <<<< m-sub-earth, how long
>>> would it take
>>> >> to eat the entire Earth? Well, even without
>>> numbers,
>>> >> one can see that initially the mass consumption
>>> of
>>> >> the small black hole would be very modest, but as
>>> it
>>> >> grew and grew, the rate would increase by a power
>>> >> curve following the exponent of the ratio of black
>>> hole
>>> >> surface to black hole mass until the black hole
>>> reached
>>> >> a certain fraction of the Earth's mass and then a
>>> >> destructive deformation would occur in a
>>> catastrophic
>>> >> fashion... It could take thousands of years. There
>>> could
>>> >> be one there now. (Not true; we would hear it.)
>>> >>
>>> >> But if it was a FAST black hole, it
>>> would go straight
>>> >> through the Earth with only the equivalent of a
>>> black
>>> >> hole burp and perhaps produce a massive episode
>>> of
>>> >> basalt flood vulcanism as it exited. Silly notion.
>>> We don't
>>> >> have massive basalt flood vulcanism... What's
>>> that?
>>> >> We do? Every how often? Hmm. You don't
>>> suppose...?
>>> >
>>> > ______________________________________________
>>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Wed Sep 16 15:32:48 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:32:48 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909161223w52a54312x69c8e2fd7d5219bf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0a794130909161223w52a54312x69c8e2fd7d5219bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AB13D60.5020002@meteoritesusa.com>

Hey Mike,

I've seen some UNWA meteorites that look a lot like the stone you are 
holding. But, I would HIGHLY doubt the stone you have there is a 
meteorite. Much less from the PA fireball. It's not Black, no fusion 
crust, blah blah blah... Definitely not the PA stone.

That's not to say it NOT a meteorite, there are small round nodes that 
"look" like chondrules protruding from the surface, and the red/brown 
spots "look" like oxidized iron inclusions and staining, but... It's 
hard to say for sure. I've had UNWA that look very similar and they had 
low magnetism.

Slice it in half! and then send photos of the interior.

Regards,
Eric


Mike Hankey wrote:
> I?ve gotten about six strange rock reports so far which is great! It
> shows the locals know meteorites could be on the ground and they are
> keeping an eye out for them. I have been able to identify most of the
> rocks I?ve seen so far, but this one in particular I?m not sure about.
> If anyone knows what this rock is please let me know. It is very hard
> and magnetic seemed like a lot of metal in it. It is pretty weathered
> and hard to tell if it has a crust on it or not.
>
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock1.jpg
>
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock2.jpg
>
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock3.jpg
>
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock4.jpg
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Wed Sep 16 15:49:31 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:49:31 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
Message-ID: <CE4324744CFC4195AB1304FD51033D94@ET>

Mike:

Here are some photos of a meteorite I take along on presentations to show 
what one may look like with the crust eroded away.  You can see the metal 
flecks in the cut unpolished small piece. You can also just make out tiny 
metallic spherules in the exterior.  I think this is a classified NWA, I'll 
have to check.

I'm not an optimist, I'm a skeptic, but this does sort of look like a 
meteorite. Cut that sucker open!
I don't know how the crust could have eroded away so quickly, so maybe not.


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/001.jpg?t=1253130462
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/004-1.jpg?t=1253130505
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/006.jpg?t=1253130549

Phil Whitmer 



From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 16 16:04:23 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 13:04:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] new freebie session (ad)
Message-ID: <403804.51568.qm@web57808.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi again list.I have a new freebie round to do.I have 25 new freebies to givaway.Everyone one who chimes in will get 2 unclassed stone meteorite individuals.So you all know what to do.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


      


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 17:34:29 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:34:29 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD Michael Cottinham is going for broke!
Message-ID: <COL108-W37D7DFC3D6C0A806D486B9BE20@phx.gbl>



Good afternoon,

I just noticed most (if not all) of Michael Cottingham's meteorites are now 40% off on his ebay store. I just thought I would give some members of the list a heads up. I've already made a few purchases and got a really great deal on one of his silicated irons a few days ago. I know Michael is kind of shy about about doing ADs on this list (Is it OK for me to do one?).;D

Thanks! Carl

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From dfpens01 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 16 18:41:51 2009
From: dfpens01 at yahoo.com (David Pensenstadler)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:41:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909161223w52a54312x69c8e2fd7d5219bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <833771.41135.qm@web112301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

There are tons and tons of slag along the roads and railroad tracks in Pennsylvania.  My guess is the stone is a piece of slag.  It would be good to learn exactly from where it came.

Dave

--- On Wed, 9/16/09, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
> To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 3:23 PM
> I?ve gotten about six strange rock
> reports so far which is great! It
> shows the locals know meteorites could be on the ground and
> they are
> keeping an eye out for them. I have been able to identify
> most of the
> rocks I?ve seen so far, but this one in particular I?m
> not sure about.
> If anyone knows what this rock is please let me know. It is
> very hard
> and magnetic seemed like a lot of metal in it. It is pretty
> weathered
> and hard to tell if it has a crust on it or not.
> 
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock1.jpg
> 
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock2.jpg
> 
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock3.jpg
> 
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock4.jpg
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From parkforestmet at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 19:18:17 2009
From: parkforestmet at hotmail.com (bill kies)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:18:17 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD Michael Cottinham is going for broke!
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W37D7DFC3D6C0A806D486B9BE20@phx.gbl>
References: <COL108-W37D7DFC3D6C0A806D486B9BE20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <SNT102-W59FB601AC194158BB92183A2E20@phx.gbl>


Four ads per week isn't enough? Now Spammingham has a recruit hawking his meteorites like some kind of google finance board pumper? Tsk tsk...
 
 

> From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:34:29 -0700
> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD Michael Cottinham is going for broke!
> 
> 
> 
> Good afternoon,
> 
> I just noticed most (if not all) of Michael Cottingham's meteorites are now 40% off on his ebay store. I just thought I would give some members of the list a heads up. I've already made a few purchases and got a really great deal on one of his silicated irons a few days ago. I know Michael is kind of shy about about doing ADs on this list (Is it OK for me to do one?).;D
> 
> Thanks! Carl
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Wed Sep 16 19:31:16 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:31:16 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
References: <f0a794130909161223w52a54312x69c8e2fd7d5219bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4A73C82A044A49C2951D32C4EECF5DD6@ATARIENGINE2>

THIS is a meteorite that has been on the
ground awhile, years, decades, centuries,
millennia? but is only partly degraded.
It's lost its gloss but it's perfectly plain
what it is:
http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/cms/astro/cosmos/M/Meteorite

THIS is a meteorite that just fell only days
before some sharp-eyed fellow picked it up:
http://meteoriteguy.com/lamanchaspainfall/lamancha555a.JPG

What you are holding in your hand is SLAG.

I mean, I don't want to be overly blunt here,
but that's not the kind of rock you want to
expend effort on finding. Toss it in the question
mark barrel and go find one like the two pix
above. You'll be a lot happier...


Sterling K. Webb
------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Hankey" <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:23 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports


I?ve gotten about six strange rock reports so far which is great! It
shows the locals know meteorites could be on the ground and they are
keeping an eye out for them. I have been able to identify most of the
rocks I?ve seen so far, but this one in particular I?m not sure about.
If anyone knows what this rock is please let me know. It is very hard
and magnetic seemed like a lot of metal in it. It is pretty weathered
and hard to tell if it has a crust on it or not.

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock1.jpg

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock2.jpg

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock3.jpg

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock4.jpg
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From GeoZay at aol.com  Wed Sep 16 19:39:01 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:39:01 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
Message-ID: <bda.4bc61400.37e2d115@aol.com>


The one here looks like it fell in the La  Brea tar pits.  :O)
geoZay


http://meteoriteguy.com/lamanchaspainfall/lamancha555a.JPG   



From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 19:47:43 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:47:43 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
In-Reply-To: <4A73C82A044A49C2951D32C4EECF5DD6@ATARIENGINE2>
References: <f0a794130909161223w52a54312x69c8e2fd7d5219bf@mail.gmail.com>
	<4A73C82A044A49C2951D32C4EECF5DD6@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W52C99BB4F00D08E7AC730BD2E20@phx.gbl>



All:

I would say it's not that cut-n-dry.  I have found highly weathered meteorites that do not look like the ones Sterling has posted.  I agree that the ones Mike posted they are most likely slag and definitely are not from a fall, but you never know. I like to keep an open mind.

Most of the meteorites I find on Lake Beds have no fusion crust, are often fractured or broken so they have sharp edges.  Even a few are very weakly attracted to a magnet due to oxidation.  I found one and it looked just like a piece of dark red jasper.  When it felt heavy and stuck to a magnet, I knew it was a meteorite.

Good luck Mike and keep at it.

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net
> To: mike.hankey at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:31:16 -0500
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
>
> THIS is a meteorite that has been on the
> ground awhile, years, decades, centuries,
> millennia? but is only partly degraded.
> It's lost its gloss but it's perfectly plain
> what it is:
> http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/cms/astro/cosmos/M/Meteorite
>
> THIS is a meteorite that just fell only days
> before some sharp-eyed fellow picked it up:
> http://meteoriteguy.com/lamanchaspainfall/lamancha555a.JPG
>
> What you are holding in your hand is SLAG.
>
> I mean, I don't want to be overly blunt here,
> but that's not the kind of rock you want to
> expend effort on finding. Toss it in the question
> mark barrel and go find one like the two pix
> above. You'll be a lot happier...
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Hankey" 
> To: "meteoritelist" 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:23 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
>
>
> I?ve gotten about six strange rock reports so far which is great! It
> shows the locals know meteorites could be on the ground and they are
> keeping an eye out for them. I have been able to identify most of the
> rocks I?ve seen so far, but this one in particular I?m not sure about.
> If anyone knows what this rock is please let me know. It is very hard
> and magnetic seemed like a lot of metal in it. It is pretty weathered
> and hard to tell if it has a crust on it or not.
>
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock1.jpg
>
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock2.jpg
>
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock3.jpg
>
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock4.jpg
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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From GeoZay at aol.com  Wed Sep 16 19:59:44 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:59:44 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
Message-ID: <d59.48df799f.37e2d5f0@aol.com>

>>THIS is a meteorite that just fell only  days
before some sharp-eyed fellow picked it  up:
http://meteoriteguy.com/lamanchaspainfall/lamancha555a.JPG<<
I  sure hope this is some kind of joke, or I'm gonna be scarred for life. 
The black  fusion crust doesn't look like anything I thought it would look.
GeoZay  



From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 20:06:50 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:06:50 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
Message-ID: <COL108-W1985C00C3AC4BF92E48A479BE10@phx.gbl>



This looks similar to the one Mike Farmer found in Arizona a month or so ago. It has a glassy look to it.

Carl



>>THIS is a meteorite that just fell only  days
before some sharp-eyed fellow picked it  up:
http://meteoriteguy.com/lamanchaspainfall/lamancha555a.JPG<<
I  sure hope this is some kind of joke, or I'm gonna be scarred for life.
The black  fusion crust doesn't look like anything I thought it would look.
GeoZay


_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 20:09:49 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:09:49 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD Michael Cottinham is going for broke!
In-Reply-To: <SNT102-W59FB601AC194158BB92183A2E20@phx.gbl>
References: <COL108-W37D7DFC3D6C0A806D486B9BE20@phx.gbl>
	<SNT102-W59FB601AC194158BB92183A2E20@phx.gbl>    
Message-ID: <COL108-W20174F73C68B64900F073E9BE10@phx.gbl>




 Hi Bill and all,

 I've been expecting your response. No, Michael Cottingham did not recruit me for his ads. Don't worry about that. Speaking for myself, I'm still a newbie and just learning and collecting meteorites. As a new collector, the only way for me to see and find any new and interesting pieces are for people just like Michael Cottingham and others. I do really appreciate their efforts. I can't believe I'm the only one on the lookout for new stuff, thus I wanted to let the others like myself know. If Michael needs to sell his meteorites to purchase more meteorites and then distribute them to the world, then I'm all for it. It means I'll be able to get something new in the end. Yes, this list is all about meteorites. Scientific knowledge, photos, collecting, ...etc., well, how do I know if anything is available for no one says anything about it? Is four ads per week excessive? Maybe, but I don't care. To me it just means more meteorites. If nothing else, at least I can enjoy the pics that comes with the ad. I'm probably a bit impulsive about shopping for meteorites and that's probably my main fault. So Bill and others, forgive my enthusiasm but I still can't believe I'm the only one. BTW, what is a google finance board pumper? Is that like a website? Never mind.

 carl


>
>
> Bill wrote:
>>
>> Four ads per week isn't enough? Now Spammingham has a recruit hawking his meteorites like some kind of google finance board pumper? Tsk tsk...

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com  Wed Sep 16 20:05:34 2009
From: STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com (STARSANDSCOPES at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:05:34 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 5488 Micrograph Gallary update (Lodranite!)
Message-ID: <cce.58857bd2.37e2d74e@aol.com>

Hi list,  Paul (Meteorite Times) just  updated my micrograph gallery with 
some NWA 5488 Lodranite images.  He made  a few improvements to the site and 
we added a full size image of the month in  the features section.  I am 
shooting at 12 mp so the file is big enough to  print. 

Just go to  
http://www.meteorite.com/meteorite-gallery/meteorites-alpha_frame.htm and select  name or classification then pick from the menu on the 
left.  You will need  to select "features" at the top of the page to view the 
single full size  image.  The copy/paste function works to save this 
unreduced  file.

This is a new camera so I am always looking for  feedback.

Thanks,  Tom Phillips

PS: To all you in  Denver.    LUCKY!!!!  



From bandk at chorus.net  Wed Sep 16 20:13:02 2009
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:13:02 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
References: <8EE79765E021471E8A039DE7F3318DFD@ET>
Message-ID: <0C025FABBB684F4DBE4E5AC52BFDA973@owner55652f88b>

Phil,
    How is this "junk" science????
              Kirk...........
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:11 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!


> G'day, Konnichiwa, Aloha, Top 'o the morning to ya!:
>
>
> Microbes from outer space living in the upper atmosphere and bacteria 
> living for millions of years! If I only had more time to read junk 
> science!
>
> Phil Whitmer
>
>
>
>
> Hi listees,
>
> Some interesting reading...
>
> "...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey
> through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 million
> spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or
> simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in diameter.
> Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million survived
> and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting that
> even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one planet
> to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a rock
> a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of years...."
>
> Still don't believe?
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Wed Sep 16 20:20:14 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:20:14 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
References: <f0a794130909161223w52a54312x69c8e2fd7d5219bf@mail.gmail.com><4A73C82A044A49C2951D32C4EECF5DD6@ATARIENGINE2>
	<SNT117-W52C99BB4F00D08E7AC730BD2E20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A9F4E1211FC744FEBD303978112F96F8@ATARIENGINE2>

It was my impression that he was searching
for a recent fall from the observed fireball.
Or maybe I got that confused with another
thread. So I posted what recent falls, fresh
falls, would look like.

In the Eastern US, the Midwest, the high
rainfall, the freeze-thaw cycling of winters,
and the high porosity of meteorites pretty
much guarantees that a chondrite will be
transformed, even disintegrated, in short
order.

Deserts are a different story.

Such states have an abnornally high per-
centage of their finds as irons and stoney-
irons. Of the eight meteorites in the 2000
edition of the NHM Catalogue listed for
Pennsylvania, only three (38%) are non-iron,
while 90% or more of the meteorites that
fall there (and everywhere else) are stones.

Why? Stones don't survive in those conditions.


Sterling K. Webb
-------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Stanley" <stanleygregr at hotmail.com>
To: <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>; "Mike Hankey" 
<mike.hankey at gmail.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports




All:

I would say it's not that cut-n-dry.  I have found highly weathered 
meteorites that do not look like the ones Sterling has posted.  I agree 
that the ones Mike posted they are most likely slag and definitely are 
not from a fall, but you never know. I like to keep an open mind.

Most of the meteorites I find on Lake Beds have no fusion crust, are 
often fractured or broken so they have sharp edges.  Even a few are very 
weakly attracted to a magnet due to oxidation.  I found one and it 
looked just like a piece of dark red jasper.  When it felt heavy and 
stuck to a magnet, I knew it was a meteorite.

Good luck Mike and keep at it.

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net
> To: mike.hankey at gmail.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:31:16 -0500
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
>
> THIS is a meteorite that has been on the
> ground awhile, years, decades, centuries,
> millennia? but is only partly degraded.
> It's lost its gloss but it's perfectly plain
> what it is:
> http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/cms/astro/cosmos/M/Meteorite
>
> THIS is a meteorite that just fell only days
> before some sharp-eyed fellow picked it up:
> http://meteoriteguy.com/lamanchaspainfall/lamancha555a.JPG
>
> What you are holding in your hand is SLAG.
>
> I mean, I don't want to be overly blunt here,
> but that's not the kind of rock you want to
> expend effort on finding. Toss it in the question
> mark barrel and go find one like the two pix
> above. You'll be a lot happier...
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mike Hankey"
> To: "meteoritelist"
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:23 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
>
>
> I?ve gotten about six strange rock reports so far which is great! It
> shows the locals know meteorites could be on the ground and they are
> keeping an eye out for them. I have been able to identify most of the
> rocks I?ve seen so far, but this one in particular I?m not sure about.
> If anyone knows what this rock is please let me know. It is very hard
> and magnetic seemed like a lot of metal in it. It is pretty weathered
> and hard to tell if it has a crust on it or not.
>
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock1.jpg
>
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock2.jpg
>
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock3.jpg
>
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock4.jpg
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
______________________________________________
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Meteorite-list mailing list
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http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 20:20:23 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:20:23 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W1985C00C3AC4BF92E48A479BE10@phx.gbl>
References: <COL108-W1985C00C3AC4BF92E48A479BE10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W212CDA3C32882616472FAAD2E10@phx.gbl>


I think it was found by Mike, but I believe it is an eucrite (high Ca) he found in Spain??? not sure, but I think in 2008?

Talk about fresh... someone must have caught it with a baseball glove.
It sure is a beauty!!

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:06:50 -0700
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
>
>
>
> This looks similar to the one Mike Farmer found in Arizona a month or so ago. It has a glassy look to it.
>
> Carl
>
>
>
>>>THIS is a meteorite that just fell only days
> before some sharp-eyed fellow picked it up:
> http://meteoriteguy.com/lamanchaspainfall/lamancha555a.JPG<<
> I sure hope this is some kind of joke, or I'm gonna be scarred for life.
> The black fusion crust doesn't look like anything I thought it would look.
> GeoZay
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 20:25:47 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:25:47 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
In-Reply-To: <SNT117-W212CDA3C32882616472FAAD2E10@phx.gbl>
References: <COL108-W1985C00C3AC4BF92E48A479BE10@phx.gbl>
	<SNT117-W212CDA3C32882616472FAAD2E10@phx.gbl> 
Message-ID: <COL108-W44DCF6B1CB86093F80A61D9BE10@phx.gbl>



No, I'm sure it was Arizona recently. Maybe some one can dig up that pic for comparison.

Carl

>
> I think it was found by Mike, but I believe it is an eucrite (high Ca) he found in Spain??? not sure, but I think in 2008?
>
> Talk about fresh... someone must have caught it with a baseball glove.
> It sure is a beauty!!
>
> Greg S.
>>
>>
>>
>> This looks similar to the one Mike Farmer found in Arizona a month or so ago. It has a glassy look to it.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>>
>>>>THIS is a meteorite that just fell only days
>> before some sharp-eyed fellow picked it up:
>> http://meteoriteguy.com/lamanchaspainfall/lamancha555a.JPG<<
>> I sure hope this is some kind of joke, or I'm gonna be scarred for life.
>> The black fusion crust doesn't look like anything I thought it would look.
>> GeoZay


_________________________________________________________________
Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews on digital tv's.
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From fujmon at mac.com  Wed Sep 16 20:40:02 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:40:02 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W44DCF6B1CB86093F80A61D9BE10@phx.gbl>
References: <COL108-W1985C00C3AC4BF92E48A479BE10@phx.gbl>
	<SNT117-W212CDA3C32882616472FAAD2E10@phx.gbl>
	<COL108-W44DCF6B1CB86093F80A61D9BE10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C43129AC-C609-453F-9543-13F323F1CF24@mac.com>

I think Greg was referring to Puerto Lapice, which fell in October  
2007 in Ciudad Real, Castilla-La Mancha, Spain, with a TKW of `500g,  
and was a eucrite.  The image that Sterling posted really does look  
like a eucrite with its glossy fusion crust (and the file name should  
give it away as well).  Mike Farmer's oriented stone looks like an  
(extra)ordinary chondrite.

gary

On Sep 16, 2009, at 5:25 PM, Carl 's wrote:

>
>
> No, I'm sure it was Arizona recently. Maybe some one can dig up that  
> pic for comparison.
>
> Carl
>
>>
>> I think it was found by Mike, but I believe it is an eucrite (high  
>> Ca) he found in Spain??? not sure, but I think in 2008?
>>
>> Talk about fresh... someone must have caught it with a baseball  
>> glove.
>> It sure is a beauty!!
>>
>> Greg S.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This looks similar to the one Mike Farmer found in Arizona a month  
>>> or so ago. It has a glassy look to it.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> THIS is a meteorite that just fell only days
>>> before some sharp-eyed fellow picked it up:
>>> http://meteoriteguy.com/lamanchaspainfall/lamancha555a.JPG<<
>>> I sure hope this is some kind of joke, or I'm gonna be scarred for  
>>> life.
>>> The black fusion crust doesn't look like anything I thought it  
>>> would look.
>>> GeoZay
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Ready for Fall shows? Use Bing to find helpful ratings and reviews  
> on digital tv's.
> http://www.bing.com/shopping/search?q=digital+tv's&form=MSHNCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHNCB_Vertical_Shopping_DigitalTVs_1x1
> ______________________________________________
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> Meteorite-list mailing list
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Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From cynapse at charter.net  Wed Sep 16 21:41:50 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:41:50 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
In-Reply-To: <SNT117-W212CDA3C32882616472FAAD2E10@phx.gbl>
References: <COL108-W1985C00C3AC4BF92E48A479BE10@phx.gbl>
	<SNT117-W212CDA3C32882616472FAAD2E10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <mq43b5hf7dornlihh6g0l79hfp82kvruqr@4ax.com>

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:20:23 -0700, you wrote:

>
>I think it was found by Mike, but I believe it is an eucrite 
>(high Ca) he found in Spain???

Yes, La Mancha.  I wish I had a piece of that just for the name!

That's another thread-- we had the one on meteorite names that are people's
names-- how about meteorites names with ties to classic literature?


From clp at alumni.caltech.edu  Wed Sep 16 20:42:44 2009
From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu (Chris Peterson)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:42:44 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
References: <d59.48df799f.37e2d5f0@aol.com>
Message-ID: <CEEB7A3B702643EF8BDF7CA546E20540@bellatrix>

How about this one? http://www.cloudbait.com/science/bermet.html

I took these pictures less than 6 hours after the meteorite fell.

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <GeoZay at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports


>>>THIS is a meteorite that just fell only  days
> before some sharp-eyed fellow picked it  up:
> http://meteoriteguy.com/lamanchaspainfall/lamancha555a.JPG<<
> I  sure hope this is some kind of joke, or I'm gonna be scarred for life.
> The black  fusion crust doesn't look like anything I thought it would 
> look.
> GeoZay



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Sep 16 21:03:29 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:03:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Asteroid Juno Grabs the Spotlight
Message-ID: <200909170103.n8H13Tj8020416@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=2314  

Asteroid Juno Grabs the Spotlight
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
September 16, 2009

[Images}
asteroid Juno The asteroid Juno was photographed in 2003 with a special
optics system on the Hooker telescope at the Mount Wilson Observatory.
The researchers at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics who
took the picture used varying wavelengths of light as measured in
nanometers, starting with cyan and going into the infrared. Image
credit: Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics

Toward the end of September, the sun will turn a spotlight on the
asteroid Juno, giving that bulky lump of rock a rare featured cameo in
the night sky. Those who get out to a dark, unpolluted sky will be able
to spot the asteroid's silvery glint near the planet Uranus with a pair
of binoculars.

"It can usually be seen by a good amateur telescope, but the guy on the
street doesn't usually get a chance to observe it," said Don Yeomans,
manager of NASA's Near Earth Object Program Office at JPL. "This is
going to be as bright as it gets until 2018."

Juno, one of the first asteroids discovered, is thought to be the parent
of many of the meteorites that rain on Earth. The asteroid is composed
mostly of hardy silicate rock, which is tough enough that fragments
broken off by collisions can often survive a trip through Earth's
atmosphere.

Though pockmarked by bang-ups with other asteroids, Juno is large; in
fact, it is the tenth largest asteroid. It measures about 234 kilometers
(145 miles) in diameter, or about one-fifteenth the diameter of the moon.

The asteroid, which orbits the sun on a track between Mars and Jupiter,
will be at its brightest on Sept. 21, when it is zooming around the sun
at about 22 kilometers per second (49,000 miles per hour). At that time,
its apparent magnitude will be 7.6, which is about two-and- a-half times
brighter than normal. The extra brightness will come from its position
in a direct line with the sun and its proximity to Earth. (The asteroid
will still be about 180 million kilometers [112 million miles] away, so
there is no danger it will fall towards Earth.)

Skywatchers with telescopes can probably see Juno from now until the end
of the year, but it is most visible to binoculars in late September. On
or before Sept. 21, look for Juno near midnight a few degrees east of
the brighter glow of Uranus and in the constellation Pisces. It will
look like a gray dot in the sky, and each night at the end of September,
it will appear slightly more southwest of its location the night before.
By Sept. 25, it will be closer to the constellation Aquarius and best
seen before midnight.

For more information: http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/ .




From meteoritefinder at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 21:15:14 2009
From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:15:14 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] looking for a real ruster
Message-ID: <468bf6050909161815j74b3558fkf335c448b05e046b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all is there a real lost case out there? I am looking for a
pallasite slice that has no hope and is just going to rust away to
nothing. Actually I am looking for one that has Lawrenceite disease.
Let me know what you have, I would like to see if I can save it.

-- 
Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401
www.meteoritefinder.com
     928-753-6825


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 21:49:10 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 18:49:10 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
Message-ID: <COL108-W15644B0673F93E1D1A9E229BE10@phx.gbl>




I found it! Greg Stanley was absolutely correct! Scroll down to the last few pics. You will see Mike's stone that resembles George's strange rock. I had to really strain my brain cells but I think I was confused with Mike's Arizona finds because I was looking at his website at about the same time. Sorry!

http://www.meteoriteguy.com/adventures/puertolapice/puertolapice.htm

Carl


_________________________________________________________________
Bing brings you health info from trusted sources.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MHEINA_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1

From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 22:23:22 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:23:22 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
Message-ID: <COL108-W362AD8B2BF4E9DD8488D989BE10@phx.gbl>



Oops, Sorry again. In addition to Greg, I forgot to thank Gary and Carl E. for helping me jog my memory.

Carl

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

From info at tektiteinc.com  Wed Sep 16 21:27:19 2009
From: info at tektiteinc.com (info at tektiteinc.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:27:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - eBay Australite Part Flanged Button 2.84Grams
 No Reserve 0.99cents
Message-ID: <47477.127.0.0.1.1253150839.squirrel@syd-srv07.ezyreg.com>

Hello all,

I just listed on eBay an Australite Part Flanged Button 2.84Grams at No
Reserve starting at just 0.99cents!

This specimen would have easily commanded $2500 if the flange was complete.

Please have a look.

I can only ship by DHL Courier for an additional $40. If this is no good
for you then please don?t bid. Thanks in advance!

Cheers,
Desmond Leong
IMCA #2254
http://www.TektiteInc.com
http://stores.ebay.com/Tektite-Inc
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtektiteinc-dot-com




From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 16 22:49:00 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:49:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] freebies addresses
Message-ID: <925446.21435.qm@web57801.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi again list.I have 21 people who are getting freebies.I have 30 to go around so I need 9 more people.There are those who did not chime in with your addresses.Please do so if you want one.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


      


From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Wed Sep 16 23:10:45 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:10:45 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 17,
	2009
Message-ID: <c25.6353d2e9.37e302b5@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_17_2009.html  



From azizhabibi at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 00:06:30 2009
From: azizhabibi at yahoo.com (habibi abdelaziz)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:06:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] back to school
Message-ID: <287470.71400.qm@web62004.mail.re1.yahoo.com>

hello list 
i hope evreybody spend a good summer , the desert was very hot so guys are coming back home now that it's a little colder .
i feel like if? im going back to school;looking for meteorite back to the list
it has been a long time i was out of town so i didn't see the list for a while also my emails,
so please contact me again if i miss your emails
aziz_habibi at hotmail.com

thanks
aziz
?<font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:#40ffff;" face="comic sans ms">habibi aziz 
box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco 
phone. 21235576145 
fax.21235576170</font> 


      


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep 17 00:38:27 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:38:27 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] LARGE COMET GIVES BIRTH TO SMALL COMETS
Message-ID: <5B1F5226CAED47579C1B478DE8904BB1@ATARIENGINE2>

    I've always assumed that small comet 
fragments came from the complete breakup of 
the parent comet (didn't you?). But it appears
that comets can produce many, many small 
comets without suffering any apparent harm.
Or maybe this is the way comets break up...
slowly?

Sterling K. Webb
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090915-mini-comets.html

Comet Outburst Spawns Mini-Comets 
posted: 15 September 2009

A comet recently spewed out a cluster of mini comets 
in a huge outburst that was the largest ever witnessed 
by astronomers.

A team of researchers began observing the comet 
17P/Holmes in October 2007, after it was reported 
that the object, about 2.2 miles wide (3.6 km wide), 
had brightened by a million times in less than a day. 

UCLA researcher Rachel Stevenson and colleagues 
noted multiple fragments flying rapidly away from 
the comet's nucleus. They continued observing 
for several weeks after the outburst using the 
Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope in Hawaii and 
watched as the dust cloud ejected by the comet 
grew to be larger than the sun.

The astronomers examined a sequence of images 
taken over nine nights using a digital filter that 
enhances small features. They found numerous 
tiny objects that moved away from the nucleus 
at speeds of up to 280 mph (125 meters per second). 
These objects were too bright to simply be bare 
rocks, but instead were more like mini comets, 
creating their own dust clouds as ice on their 
surfaces sublimated directly to vapor.

"Initially we thought this comet was unique simply 
because of the scale of the outburst," Stevenson said. 
"But we soon realized that the aftermath of the 
outburst showed unusual features, such as these 
fast-moving fragments, that have not been detected 
around other comets."

Although the outburst was impressive in the 
telescope images, it wasn't visible to the naked eye.

Scientists aren't sure of the exact cause of the outburst. 
Possibly, pressure inside the comet built up as it moved 
closer to the sun, until eventually part of the surface 
broke away, releasing a huge cloud of dust and gas, 
as well as larger fragments.

Even after ejecting mini comets, the solid nucleus of 
comet Holmes survived and continued on its orbit, 
seemingly unperturbed. 

Holmes takes about 6 years to circle the sun, and 
travels between the inner edge of the asteroid belt 
to beyond Jupiter. The comet is now moving away 
from the sun but will return to its closest approach 
in 2014, when astronomers will examine it for signs 
of further outbursts.




From stm at bellsouth.net  Thu Sep 17 00:58:08 2009
From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 00:58:08 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) old bob haag catalogs
In-Reply-To: <1661381067-1253028480-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1987998614-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <1661381067-1253028480-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1987998614-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <E561F49D913E49F5BE655871467F876B@Platinum2>

I was looking through Bob's old catalogs (marvelling at some of the old 
prices... I wonder if Bob will let me purchase some of the pieces as listed 
in his 1983 catalog!)

Anyway - take a look at the picture in the 1992 catalog, page 59
Definitely cracked me up - Someone is a comedian :)

Sean

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Matt Morgan" <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
To: "steve arnold" <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>; 
<meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] (AD) old bob haag catalogs


Just in case you cannot find hard copies, bob has digital copies here:
http://www.meteorites.com.

It is pretty fun to page through all these and look at his price lists.
Matt
------Original Message------
From: steve arnold
Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) old bob haag catalogs
Sent: Sep 15, 2009 9:18 AM

Hi list.I am looking to buy any old bob haag catalogs.Please let me know off 
list if anyone is willing to sell them off list please.
Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!!



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
______________________________________________
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Meteorite-list mailing list
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http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Thu Sep 17 03:51:25 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 8:51:25 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
In-Reply-To: <SNT117-W212CDA3C32882616472FAAD2E10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20090917085125.1WXFD.239125.root@web04-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi,

The clue is in the file name...La Mancha!...and in the glassy crust...most eucrites show a very fluid glassy crust, very distinctive, such as Millbillillie and Camel Donga. If you find stones with such a crust then even more exciting...I think very unlikely to stick to your magnet at all though, so even more difficult to initially be certain they are meteorites. 

I dont think there is ever a way to describe what a fresh or weathered meteorite will look like exactly because of the variety and weathering conditions....just look at lots and keep an open mind.


Graham UK

---- Greg Stanley <stanleygregr at hotmail.com> wrote: 
> 
> I think it was found by Mike, but I believe it is an eucrite (high Ca) he found in Spain??? not sure, but I think in 2008?
> 
> Talk about fresh... someone must have caught it with a baseball glove.
> It sure is a beauty!!
> 
> Greg S.
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> > From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:06:50 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
> >
> >
> >
> > This looks similar to the one Mike Farmer found in Arizona a month or so ago. It has a glassy look to it.
> >
> > Carl
> >
> >
> >
> >>>THIS is a meteorite that just fell only days
> > before some sharp-eyed fellow picked it up:
> > http://meteoriteguy.com/lamanchaspainfall/lamancha555a.JPG<<
> > I sure hope this is some kind of joke, or I'm gonna be scarred for life.
> > The black fusion crust doesn't look like anything I thought it would look.
> > GeoZay
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/
> ______________________________________________
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> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 04:27:27 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 01:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Can Microbes Survive a Million-Year Space
	Journey? Experts Say Yes
In-Reply-To: <2D4D2972975F4C14AD4CC56682083A28@ET>
Message-ID: <489606.82366.qm@web33202.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

if we found an earth like rock with life in it we would naturally assume it came from earth. and being an earth like rock it would be discounted as ever being a meteorite. i9f meteorites have arrived here from mars then earth meteorites with life in them mmay have fallen on mars.
cheers
Steve

--- On Wed, 9/16/09, JoshuaTreeMuseum <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com> wrote:

> From: JoshuaTreeMuseum <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Can Microbes Survive a Million-Year Space Journey? Experts Say Yes
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 11:48 AM
> Can Microbes Survive a Million-Year
> Space Journey? Experts Say Yes
> By Jason McManus
> 16 September 2009
> 
> In a unique experiment on a galactic scale, millions of
> bacterial spores
> have been purposely exposed to space, to see how solar
> radiation affects
> them and the results supported the idea that not only could
> life have
> arrived on Earth on meteorites, but that considerable
> material has
> flowed between planets.
> 
> Closer to home, scientists have analyzed aerial dust
> samples collected
> by Charles Darwin and confirmed that microbes can travel
> across
> continents without the need for planes or trains - rather
> bacteria and
> fungi hitch-hike by attaching to dust particles. Their
> results clearly
> show that diverse microbes, including ascomycetes, and
> eubacteria can
> live for centuries and survive intercontinental travel.
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> It takes a huge leap of faith to go from a few centuries
> and intercontinental travel to MILLIONS of years traveling
> in OUTER SPACE! Extrapolation to the extreme.
> 
> If the UV doesn't get 'em surely the Van Allen radiation
> will? over the (how many years?) in a declining orbit
> around the Earth.
> 
> Quote: "In a rock a meter across, bacteria could probably
> survive for millions of years"
> Re(butt)al: "Yes, and monkeys could probably fly out of my
> butt."
> 
> So where exactly? are these imaginary panspermic
> endospores coming from? Certainly not from Mars. My guess is
> an undiscovered planet called Pie In The Sky.
> 
> Of course, it'll only take the discovery of one single ET
> in a meteorite for me to adjust my belief system
> accordingly.
> 
> Emperically yours,
> 
> Phil Whitmer
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com  Thu Sep 17 08:48:39 2009
From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:48:39 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
In-Reply-To: <0C025FABBB684F4DBE4E5AC52BFDA973@owner55652f88b>
References: <8EE79765E021471E8A039DE7F3318DFD@ET>
	<0C025FABBB684F4DBE4E5AC52BFDA973@owner55652f88b>
Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49724C39@gamma.ssl.atw>


There is much documented evidence of microbes in the upper atmosphere
region, I think the debatable bit though is the suggestion that life
must have come from somewhere other than from Earth, - This is simply
not the case. I have seen no evidence to suggest anything other than
that every single life form we have ever found originated right here on
earth. 

Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have to
have come from outer space, they are entitled to hold that view, but
where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on Earth?
It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here, where
the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal? 

Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
door..

Transfer of life from planet to planet via meteorites is more
interesting, though even here we have the dilemma that just because
highly evolved extreemophiles can potentially survive under controlled
test conditions doesn't automatically mean they actually have, there are
many other complex variables to consider, many of which are still poorly
understood. 


Mark





-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Becky
and Kirk
Sent: 17 September 2009 01:13
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!

Phil,
    How is this "junk" science????
              Kirk...........
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:11 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!


> G'day, Konnichiwa, Aloha, Top 'o the morning to ya!:
>
>
> Microbes from outer space living in the upper atmosphere and bacteria 
> living for millions of years! If I only had more time to read junk 
> science!
>
> Phil Whitmer
>
>
>
>
> Hi listees,
>
> Some interesting reading...
>
> "...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey
> through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 million
> spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or
> simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in diameter.
> Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million survived
> and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting
that
> even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one
planet
> to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a
rock
> a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of
years...."
>
> Still don't believe?
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

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From bandk at chorus.net  Thu Sep 17 09:06:19 2009
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:06:19 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
References: <8EE79765E021471E8A039DE7F3318DFD@ET><0C025FABBB684F4DBE4E5AC52BFDA973@owner55652f88b>
	<29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49724C39@gamma.ssl.atw>
Message-ID: <A5A24C36F02D446C9128932CBC7F8F33@owner55652f88b>

Hi Everyone,
      To me---believing that all life has originated here on Earth and then 
spread out from here is like saying that the Earth is still the center of 
the solar system or Universe. And----we don't believe that anymore, now do 
we??

Just my opinion of course.....:-) I'm sure that here are many other planets 
out there that are warm/wet/ideal/in the right place----we just need to find 
them, and we will.

Best to all,
Kirk........:-)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Ford" <mark.ford at ssl.gb.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!


>
> There is much documented evidence of microbes in the upper atmosphere
> region, I think the debatable bit though is the suggestion that life
> must have come from somewhere other than from Earth, - This is simply
> not the case. I have seen no evidence to suggest anything other than
> that every single life form we have ever found originated right here on
> earth.
>
> Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have to
> have come from outer space, they are entitled to hold that view, but
> where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on Earth?
> It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here, where
> the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?
>
> Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
> door..
>
> Transfer of life from planet to planet via meteorites is more
> interesting, though even here we have the dilemma that just because
> highly evolved extreemophiles can potentially survive under controlled
> test conditions doesn't automatically mean they actually have, there are
> many other complex variables to consider, many of which are still poorly
> understood.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Becky
> and Kirk
> Sent: 17 September 2009 01:13
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>
> Phil,
>    How is this "junk" science????
>              Kirk...........
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:11 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>
>
>> G'day, Konnichiwa, Aloha, Top 'o the morning to ya!:
>>
>>
>> Microbes from outer space living in the upper atmosphere and bacteria
>> living for millions of years! If I only had more time to read junk
>> science!
>>
>> Phil Whitmer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi listees,
>>
>> Some interesting reading...
>>
>> "...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey
>> through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 million
>> spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or
>> simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in diameter.
>> Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million survived
>> and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting
> that
>> even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one
> planet
>> to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a
> rock
>> a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of
> years...."
>>
>> Still don't believe?
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are 
> not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You 
> should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor 
> disclose their contents to any other person.
>
> GENERAL STATEMENT:
>
> Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and 
> communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation 
> of the system and for other lawful purposes.
>
> Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. 
> Company No 1800317
>
>
> ______________________________________________
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> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com  Thu Sep 17 10:15:02 2009
From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:15:02 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
In-Reply-To: <A5A24C36F02D446C9128932CBC7F8F33@owner55652f88b>
References: <8EE79765E021471E8A039DE7F3318DFD@ET><0C025FABBB684F4DBE4E5AC52BFDA973@owner55652f88b><29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49724C39@gamma.ssl.atw>
	<A5A24C36F02D446C9128932CBC7F8F33@owner55652f88b>
Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49724C41@gamma.ssl.atw>


Agreed, and there is very likely to be life elsewhere, but that could
just as easily evolve entirely independently of us, doesn't mean all
life originates from just one place only. All life we know of though (so
far) comes from the earth, to assume it must come from 'out there' just
because out there is 'big' is to deny the evidence that is all around
us. 

I am not saying it only originated here and has spread out into the
universe, I am saying Earth based life originated here, and if there is
any life outside our solar system, it evolved there on it's own.



Mark




-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Becky
and Kirk
Sent: 17 September 2009 14:06
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!

Hi Everyone,
      To me---believing that all life has originated here on Earth and
then 
spread out from here is like saying that the Earth is still the center
of 
the solar system or Universe. And----we don't believe that anymore, now
do 
we??

Just my opinion of course.....:-) I'm sure that here are many other
planets 
out there that are warm/wet/ideal/in the right place----we just need to
find 
them, and we will.

Best to all,
Kirk........:-)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Ford" <mark.ford at ssl.gb.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!


>
> There is much documented evidence of microbes in the upper atmosphere
> region, I think the debatable bit though is the suggestion that life
> must have come from somewhere other than from Earth, - This is simply
> not the case. I have seen no evidence to suggest anything other than
> that every single life form we have ever found originated right here
on
> earth.
>
> Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have to
> have come from outer space, they are entitled to hold that view, but
> where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on
Earth?
> It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here,
where
> the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?
>
> Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
> door..
>
> Transfer of life from planet to planet via meteorites is more
> interesting, though even here we have the dilemma that just because
> highly evolved extreemophiles can potentially survive under controlled
> test conditions doesn't automatically mean they actually have, there
are
> many other complex variables to consider, many of which are still
poorly
> understood.
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
Becky
> and Kirk
> Sent: 17 September 2009 01:13
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>
> Phil,
>    How is this "junk" science????
>              Kirk...........
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:11 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>
>
>> G'day, Konnichiwa, Aloha, Top 'o the morning to ya!:
>>
>>
>> Microbes from outer space living in the upper atmosphere and bacteria
>> living for millions of years! If I only had more time to read junk
>> science!
>>
>> Phil Whitmer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi listees,
>>
>> Some interesting reading...
>>
>> "...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey
>> through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 million
>> spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or
>> simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in diameter.
>> Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million survived
>> and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting
> that
>> even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one
> planet
>> to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a
> rock
>> a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of
> years...."
>>
>> Still don't believe?
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you
are 
> not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com.
You 
> should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor

> disclose their contents to any other person.
>
> GENERAL STATEMENT:
>
> Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and 
> communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective
operation 
> of the system and for other lawful purposes.
>
> Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15
0DP. 
> Company No 1800317
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. 

GENERAL STATEMENT:

Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes.

Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317




From GeoZay at aol.com  Thu Sep 17 10:15:38 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:15:38 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] (Meteorite) Strange Rock Reports
Message-ID: <d4f.5cb5326c.37e39e8a@aol.com>


>>The clue is in the file  name...La Mancha!...and in the glassy 
crust...most eucrites show a very fluid  glassy crust, very distinctive, such as 
Millbillillie and Camel Donga. If you  find stones with such a crust then even 
more exciting...I think very unlikely to  stick to your magnet at all though, 
so even more difficult to initially be  certain they are meteorites.<<

Well...I had no idea that there was  a kind of meteorites that had a glassy 
fusion crush. When Sterling first made  his post, I thought he was joking. 
To me, I thought he or someone had smeared  roofing tar onto an ordinary 
rock. I was right though...Sterling did indeed post  a joke, but it was on me 
and he didn't even realize it. :O) Thanks for the  education guys...GeoZay  



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Sep 17 11:18:24 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:18:24 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
In-Reply-To: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49724C39@gamma.ssl.atw>
References: <8EE79765E021471E8A039DE7F3318DFD@ET>	<0C025FABBB684F4DBE4E5AC52BFDA973@owner55652f88b>
	<29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49724C39@gamma.ssl.atw>
Message-ID: <4AB25340.6060503@meteoritesusa.com>

Hello everyone,

Again I feel compelled to respond to such Earth centered thinking. We 
are NOT the center of everything. Our planet is merely a dot in billions 
of trillions of other dots in this universe.

"...Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back 
door..."

ok... Not really.

"...Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have 
to have come from outer space..."

Some people cannot except that life COULD come from out there.

"...where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on 
Earth?..."

There is lots of evidence to shows life could start here. But that does 
not mean ALL life is from here. This "Earth centered" idea is flawed in 
every way.

"...It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here, 
where the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?..."

Again, Earth centered and ultimately wrong. This is not to say that life 
that is present today on this planet could not have started on this 
planet. Just because someone says that meteorites might have seeded 
Earth, does not mean that ALL life was seeded from elsewhere. It's 
flawed thinking because it leaves out the fact that SOME life could have 
come from elsewhere. Just because someone says that rocks from space 
could have brought life to our planet does not mean it is all 
encompassing or empirical at all because there is evidence.

I believe the Panspermia theory may be flawed (or peoples understanding 
of Panspermia anyway) if they state that all life came from elsewhere 
simply because if all life came from elsewhere then where did 
"elsewhere" get the life to begin with?

It had to come into existence from somewhere. If you don't believe in 
evolution, then you believe in God, if you believe in God you most 
likely don't believe in evolution. But I ask you why you can't believe 
in both? (rhetorical, please do not answer this as it's NOT related to 
meteorites ;)) This is NOT the topic I want to get into so I will 
continue on...

So you believe the Earth is the Goldilocks planet. Given that you most 
likely also believe there is a good chance that there is another system 
out there with a star similar to our Sun and quite possibly another 
planet similar to ours that lies within what science calls the habitable 
zone. Or is that too big of a stretch?

Let's just say for the sake of argument there is another planet out 
there nearby (relative to our system) that is in this zone and that 
there is life on that planet. One can safely assume that large 
asteroidal and cometary debris has at some time in the past slammed into 
that planet. Perhaps even while life existed on it, thereby ejecting 
billions of tons of debris into space over time. Some of that debris 
would no doubt carry some form of microbial life that lives deep inside 
the soil and rock. (perhaps even insects) Protected from the harshness 
of the vacuum and cold of space.

Now we know that if there's a Goldilocks planet that there are most 
likely other planets in that system as well, perhaps more, perhaps less 
than our system, but our knowledge of solar system formation is one that 
allows us to make an educated guess. The point is most of the debris 
would be sucked into the orbits and eventually the atmospheres of other 
planetary and larger bodies in that system. But. Not all of it would be. 
Would it? Some of it would escape. Eventually...

Let's also say for sake of argument the Gliese 581 star system is home 
to our habitable planet. This system is 20 light years away. In other 
words it  takes light 20 years to travel to Earth. (speed of light is 
186,000 miles per second). A light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles in 
distance. Remember that number...

The question now is, how fast will the debris that is able to escape the 
system be traveling? Well, I wasn't sure and did a little digging and 
found this page 
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2001-03/985224290.As.r.html which 
explains the speed of an orbiting asteroid to be at 47000 mph. Since I 
wanted to verify, I check around and found this too: 
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=14258 which puts the speed 
of an orbiting asteroid at 67,000 mph. A difference of 20,000 mph. A BIG 
difference!

Still not convinced of the accuracy of the speed, I wanted to know a 
more exact number I could apply to the debris to calculate the time it 
would take for it to reach Earth. Then I found this: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed

OK, I'm not a mathematician so those formulas and calculations are not 
something I can use just yet. How fast does debris travel out of the 
atmosphere, and how fast does it travel through the system in it's 
orbit? Will it speed up? A few more searches and yes, it does speed up. 
If the Voyager space probes speed up over time so too should the ejecta 
from the planet. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1997/PatricePean.shtml

Speed of Voyager: 17.374 km/s = 38,864.5 mile/hour (mph)
Orbital Speed of Apophis: 30.728 km/s = 68,736.5 mile/hour (mph)

A number I could work with is a happy medium between the fastest orbital 
speed of an asteroid, and the fastest speed of the Voyager spacecrafts.

38,864.5 + 68,736.5 = 107,601 MPH / 2 = 53,800.5 MPH average

If the distance of 1 light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles and light 
traveling from Gliese 581 takes 20 years to reach us then that star 
system is 117,313,920,000,000 miles away.

It would take a piece if debris traveling at 53,800.5 MPH approximately 
2,180,535,868 hours to make the trip. There are 8760 hours in a Julian 
year. Divide that into our total travel time and that gives you 248,919 
years. (someone please check my math. I'm pretty sure this is right)

So to travel from Gliese 581 to Earth the debris would take about a 
quarter million years to reach Earth. Considering the Earth is 4.6 
Billion years old, the 250K year interval is nothing in astronomical time.

Scientists today believe that extremophiles are very capable of living 
in a dormant state for millions of years. If the pieces of debris that 
come from a habitable planet in the Gliese 581 system would that life 
then be revived once it impacts our planet in the form of a meteorite?

I ask anyone, scientist or not to give me a good valid argument against 
this theory other than the lack of probability that Gliese 581 is a life 
bearing system. The point is it doesn't have to be our nearest solar 
system neighbor. It could be any solar system that has existed within 
the the 4.6 billion years the Earth has been here that is within that 
space time range.

There are over 100 billion stars in our Milky Way alone. Do you really 
believe that NONE of them support life but ours?

If I'm totally wrong or mistaken in my logic or math or anything else 
please by all means tell me...

Regards,
Eric Wichman
www.meteoritesusa.com
www.meteoriteblog.com
www.spacifieds.com






Mark Ford wrote:
> There is much documented evidence of microbes in the upper atmosphere
> region, I think the debatable bit though is the suggestion that life
> must have come from somewhere other than from Earth, - This is simply
> not the case. I have seen no evidence to suggest anything other than
> that every single life form we have ever found originated right here on
> earth. 
>
> Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have to
> have come from outer space, they are entitled to hold that view, but
> where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on Earth?
> It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here, where
> the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal? 
>
> Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
> door..
>
> Transfer of life from planet to planet via meteorites is more
> interesting, though even here we have the dilemma that just because
> highly evolved extreemophiles can potentially survive under controlled
> test conditions doesn't automatically mean they actually have, there are
> many other complex variables to consider, many of which are still poorly
> understood. 
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Becky
> and Kirk
> Sent: 17 September 2009 01:13
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>
> Phil,
>     How is this "junk" science????
>               Kirk...........
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:11 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>
>
>   
>> G'day, Konnichiwa, Aloha, Top 'o the morning to ya!:
>>
>>
>> Microbes from outer space living in the upper atmosphere and bacteria 
>> living for millions of years! If I only had more time to read junk 
>> science!
>>
>> Phil Whitmer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi listees,
>>
>> Some interesting reading...
>>
>> "...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey
>> through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 million
>> spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or
>> simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in diameter.
>> Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million survived
>> and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting
>>     
> that
>   
>> even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one
>>     
> planet
>   
>> to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a
>>     
> rock
>   
>> a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of
>>     
> years...."
>   
>> Still don't believe?
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
>>     
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. 
>
> GENERAL STATEMENT:
>
> Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes.
>
> Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Sep 17 11:24:48 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:24:48 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pope Holds Mars Meteorite
Message-ID: <4AB254C0.5030908@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi All,

Religion meets science... Yet again.

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0904135.htm

Cool...

Regards,
Eric


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Sep 17 11:43:30 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:43:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Workshop on Asteroid 2008 TC3
Message-ID: <200909171543.n8HFhULl006096@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://asima.seti.org/2008TC3/workshop2008TC3.html

WORKSHOP ON ASTEROID 2008 TC3
University of Khartoum, Khartoum, Sudan
Dec 5-15, 2009
    
INVITATION

The University of Khartoum, Faculty of Sciences and Physics Department,
and the SETI Institute invite planetary astronomers and meteoriticists
to participate in a workshop dedicated to asteroid 2008 TC3. Asteroid
2008 TC3 was the first asteroid to be detected in space and subsequently
found to impact the Earth. Fragments were recovered in the Nubian Desert
of northern Sudan in the form of rare ureilite meteorites, called
"Almahata Sitta".

Goal of the workshop is to discuss the results from ongoing research
into the properties of asteroid 2008 TC3 when it was still in space, its
nature and origin, the asteroid's impact in Earth's atmosphere, the
subsequent recovery, and the analysis of the recovered meteorites. Talks
on the origin of ureilites are invited, as well as discussions on how to
adjust observing strategies to increase the likelyhood of future
discoveries of small asteroids on a collision course with Earth.

By accepting this invitation, researchers will have a chance to examine
the collection of recovered meteorites and discuss how best to proceed
with the investigation of this small asteroid.

The workshop will be held on the days of December 6 and 7, 2009. The
University invites participants to take part in a banquet on the evening
of December 6 [Earliest return flight would be afternoon December 8].

In the week following, from December 8 to 15, there will be a site visit
to the area where Almahata Sitta was recovered . An effort will be made
to expand the diversity of recovered materials by finding more of the
fallen debris. Participants are asked to bring clothes and strong shoes,
suitable for outdoor camping and hiking. The weather can be cold at
night (bring woolen hat). Bring medication for a bad stomach,
anti-musquito spray, and sun-screen.

Itinerary: Dec. 8 - travel to Almahata Sitta; Dec. 9-12 - field survey;
[optional: Dec 13 - morning travel back to Khartoum (10-hr trip, arrive
3 pm afternoon at the earliest)]; Dec 13-15 - sight seeing along Nile,
back in Khartoum 4pm afternoon Dec. 15.

Abstract and registration <http://atv.seti.org/registration2008TC3.html>
deadline is *November 1, 2009*. Please do not delay.

After registration (and sending us your passport pdf), you will receive
a letter of invitation from the University and a visa approval number
from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Sudan that should help expedite
the visa process. If there are any questions, please feel free to
contact us at: Petrus.M.Jenniskens [at] nasa.gov


Scientific Organizing Committee:

    * Dr. P. Jenniskens, SETI Institute, USA (chair)
    * Dr. S. Chesley, NASA JPL, USA
    * Dr. A. Fitzsimmons, Queens U. Belfast, UK
    * Dr. D. Nesvorny, SWRI, USA
    * Dr. P. Scheirich, Ondrejov Observatory, Czech Republic
    * Prof. C. Taricco, University of Torino, Italy
    * Dr. M. H. Shaddad, University of Khartoum, Sudan
    * Dr. M. Zolensky, NASA JSC, USA

Local Organizing Committee:

    * Dr. Muawia H. Shaddad, University of Khartoum, Sudan (chair)
    * Dr. Omer Eid, University of Khartoum, Sudan
    * Dr. Arbab Ibrahim Arbab, University of Khartoum, Sudan
    * Dr. Abbakar Ali Abdella, University of Khartoum, Sudan
    * Saadia Elsir, Juba University, Khartoum, Sudan
    * Ayman Ismael Hamid, University of Khartoum, Sudan
    * Hosam Eldeen Babiker, University of Khartoum, Sudan
    * Ayman Kudoda, University of Khartoum, Sudan
    * Diya Numan, University of Khartoum, Sudan
    * Nesreen Shareef Hassan, University of Khartoum, Sudan

Contact information:
Muawia H. Shaddad, LOC chair, Physics Department, Faculty of Sciences,
University of Khartoum. Email: shaddadmhsh [at] yahoo.com; Tel.:
+249-912-359317.

Omer Eid, Head of the Physics Department, Faculty of Sciences,
University of Khartoum. Email: omereid [at] gmail.com; Tel.:
+249-11-780539.

Saadia Elsir, Juba University, Khartoum. Email: saadia.elsir [at]
yahoo.com; Tel.: +249-912-346333.

Peter Jenniskens, SOC chair, SETI Institute, 515 N. Whisman Road,
Mountain View, CA 94043, USA. Email: Petrus.M.Jenniskens [at] nasa.gov;
Tel.: +1-650-8100216.





From magellon.ken at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 12:15:13 2009
From: magellon.ken at gmail.com (Ken Newton)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:15:13 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pope Holds Mars Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <4AB254C0.5030908@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4AB254C0.5030908@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <c626e3e80909170915k4faf9fanf43eaa5d37a17a7c@mail.gmail.com>

The Vatican meteorite collection is most impressive.
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1984Metic..19..161S

Best,
kn

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Religion meets science... Yet again.
>
> http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0904135.htm
>
> Cool...
>
> Regards,
> Eric
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Thu Sep 17 13:08:33 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:08:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pope Holds Mars Meteorite
Message-ID: <25628818.1253207313318.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Galileo rolls over.....smiles...

-----Original Message-----
>From: Ken Newton <magellon.ken at gmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 17, 2009 12:15 PM
>To: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pope Holds Mars Meteorite
>
>The Vatican meteorite collection is most impressive.
>http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1984Metic..19..161S
>
>Best,
>kn
>
>On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Religion meets science... Yet again.
>>
>> http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0904135.htm
>>
>> Cool...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 13:14:27 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 10:14:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] bob haag catalogs
Message-ID: <679939.63475.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi again list.So far I am getting the 2003,1997,and 1989 catalogs.Is anyone willing to part the 1992,1986 and 1983? Also all the freebies are spoken for and again thanks for chiming in.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


      


From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 13:15:06 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:15:06 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pope Holds Mars Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <25628818.1253207313318.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <25628818.1253207313318.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <f0a794130909171015x19469e90p9b1741b76d14cfa@mail.gmail.com>

The curator sounds like a pretty interesting person

http://vaticanobservatory.org/GConsolmagno.html

"Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it
close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which at the end of
the day is a kind of paganism - it's turning God into a nature
god."[2].

I think that statement is kind of relevant to some of the wacky
conversations we've had on here recently (especially the alien life
ones). Science and God can co-exist.

On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 1:08 PM,  <countdeiro at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Galileo rolls over.....smiles...
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Ken Newton <magellon.ken at gmail.com>
>>Sent: Sep 17, 2009 12:15 PM
>>To: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>>Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pope Holds Mars Meteorite
>>
>>The Vatican meteorite collection is most impressive.
>>http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1984Metic..19..161S
>>
>>Best,
>>kn
>>
>>On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Religion meets science... Yet again.
>>>
>>> http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0904135.htm
>>>
>>> Cool...
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eric
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>______________________________________________
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From cynapse at charter.net  Thu Sep 17 14:55:10 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:55:10 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] range on the Haumea
In-Reply-To: <679939.63475.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <679939.63475.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9d15b5dkepd3rmdff4rgedmkp35do5msc4@4ax.com>

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090916092538.htm

Spot Discovered On Dwarf Planet Haumea Shows Up Red And Rich With Organics

ScienceDaily (Sep. 16, 2009) ? A dark red area discovered on the dwarf planet
Haumea appears to be richer in minerals and organic compounds than the
surrounding icy surface.

The discovery will be presented at the European Planetary Science Congress in
Potsdam by Dr Pedro Lacerda on Wednesday 16 September.

The spot was discovered by measuring changes in its brightness as it rotates.
The origin of the spot is unknown, however its ?light curve?, which describes
variations in its brightness over time, is not exactly the same shape in all
wavelengths. Small but persistent differences indicate that the dark spot is
slightly redder in visible light and slightly bluer at infrared wavelengths.

?Our very first measurements of Haumea told us there was a spot on the surface.
The two brightness maxima and the two minima of the light curve are not exactly
equal, as would be expected from a uniform surface. This indicates the presence
of a dark spot on the otherwise bright surface. But Haumea?s light curve has
told us more and it was only when we got the infrared data that were we able to
begin to understand what the spot might be,? said Dr. Pedro Lacerda, Newton
Fellow at Queen?s University Belfast.

Possible interpretations of these measurements are that the spot is richer in
minerals and organic compounds, or that it contains a higher fraction of
crystalline ice. If the spot is a scar of a recent impact onto Haumea then the
spot material might resemble the composition of the impactor, perhaps mixed with
material from the inner layers of Haumea.

Haumea orbits the Sun beyond Neptune, in a region known as the Kuiper belt. It
is the fourth largest known Kuiper belt object (KBO) after Eris, Pluto and
Makemake. These large KBOs, together with main-belt asteroid Ceres, are known as
dwarf planets. One of the most surprising characteristics of Haumea is its very
fast rotation, with one day lasting only 3.9 Earth hours. No other large object
in the solar system spins as fast as Haumea. The rapid spin deforms Haumea into
an elongated ellipsoid, 2000 km by 1600 km by 1000 km, whose shape balances
gravitational and rotational accelerations. It is believed that Haumea was spun
up by a massive impact more than a billion years ago.

Because of its large distance from the Earth, Haumea is visible only as a rather
uninformative point of light. Most of what we know about this object was derived
from its brightness variations, or ?light curve?. Because of its rotation and
elongated shape, Haumea brightens and dims periodically as it reflects more and
less sunlight. The extent of this variation tells us how elongated Haumea is,
and the time between each brightening and dimming is a measure of the rotation
period. The precise Haumea shape and spin period imply that it has a density 2.5
times that of water. Since we know from spectroscopic observations that Haumea
is covered in water ice, this high density implies Haumea must have a rocky
interior, in contrast with its bright icy surface.

New observations of this spot are planned for early 2010 using the ESO Very
Large Telescope. ?Now we will get detailed spectroscopy of the spot to hopefully
identify its chemical composition and solve the puzzle of its origin? Lacerda
concluded.


From fuzzfoot at comcast.net  Thu Sep 17 14:37:24 2009
From: fuzzfoot at comcast.net (Mike Bandli)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:37:24 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: RARE Antarctic Library and Meteorites
Message-ID: <5ADE86B0756E45848B21AA73932A146C@Bandli1>

Respecting the one-ad-per-week, I am making this a two part ad:

Part 1

I am selling a large lot of Antarctic Publications, which includes all of
the coveted NIPR Photographic catalogs and red books, plus a ton of other
uber-rare publications, covers, and items you will likely never see again.
You wouldn't believe the amount of time and effort it took to compile this
lot. But if not for an unexpected major purchase, these would remain on the
shelf. There is a wealth of information there that can only be found in book
form. I have enjoyed and read through most of them over the last 5 years.
You will never see something like this again! 

Also, at the bottom of the page are some incredibly rare pre-treaty
Antarctic meteorites from Rob Elliott and NEMS. Take a look:

http://historicmeteorites.com/historicmeteorites/ant.html

Part 2 

I have eBay auctions running with barely any bids or watchers and need some
help:

http://shop.ebay.com/historicmeteorites/m.html

Where else are you going to find such a nice Esquel at .99 cents with no
reserve?

As always, thank you for looking and have a great weekend!

Mike Bandli
www.HistoricMeteorites.com
IMCA #5765




From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Sep 17 15:04:53 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:04:53 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
In-Reply-To: <20090917140830.DQBD6.238979.imail@fed1rmwml30>
References: <20090917140830.DQBD6.238979.imail@fed1rmwml30>
Message-ID: <4AB28855.8000600@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi Carl, List,

In response...
> Eric, all,
> It seems to me a lot of people believe in the Big Bang theory. If you are among them then you must believe that everything on this planet did in fact come from space. Correct?
No... Technically I do believe there was some sort of starting point, 
whether that is the Big Bang, well the jury is out on that one, though I 
am open to it. Everything on Earth did NOT come from the Big Bang and 
since the Big Bang is a theory you would have to first believe in that 
to base your statement on that.
>  I mean there was this huge explosion if you will, that when the dust settled formed our wonderful  solar system. So if everything on Earth came from this Big Bang then why is there all of this debate about life? Do some of us think that everything came from space except the dirt? 
No... Again, I do not believe life came from the Big Bang. This would 
imply that life existed "before" the BB. I believe life formed billions 
of years after the beginning whenever that was. Life cannot 
spontaneously appear that we know of. I know some will argue that point. 
But life doesn't come from a singularity.
> No, I think many believe that everything came from the Big Bang and everything means everything. Life fits neatly into the category of everything. Doesn't it?? 
No... Life is not everything, it is in fact a product of everything, and 
everything doesn't exist only because of the BB.
> Therefore life also came from the Big Bang. Seems logical to me! 
>   
Again. Life is a product of and not directly from the BB. Life is an 
effective sum of all energy and matter over time. Galaxies and systems 
and planets are in fact vessels of life.
> Taking it one step further. If life came to Earth Via the Big Bang then wouldn't some of this life stuff have been launched to other planets as well. Perhaps even launched to other  solar systems? 
ALL life that is on Earth today did not COME to Earth... Original 
Earth-life most probably formed on Earth. But that doesn't mean all life 
that is on Earth today is from Earth. Meaning that it's possible that 
SOME life came from other places. Your assumption is incomplete.

How life got here is the debate. Life did not spontaneously appear did 
it? Just like a cake needs a recipe, so too does life. This does not 
rule out a higher power, though some feel it does. If you can bake a 
cake by combining the right amount of chemical ingredients, at the 
perfect temperature, for the perfect amount of time you'll have cake. 
Technically this means we're cake? Hope that doesn't mean we're 
ultimately going to become food for a more powerful race of alien. ;)
> If so then we just need to find the planet that welcomes this life stuff. I think Mar's is too cold. The moon seems like it should be okay but it lacks atmosphere and maybe a few other things. 
>   
Your moon argument lacks strength because even though the moon lacks 
atmosphere, if you read my previous post you'd know that the Apollo 12 
mission bought back life from the moon. Thought that life was placed 
there 3 years earlier it stowed aboard a camera. The point is it 
survived for 3 years in space. What's to say there's not life there now, 
buried deep inside a rock, a meteorite that crashed into the moons 
surface millions of years ago?
> So, based on the Big Bang spewing life across space , life must have landed somewhere else. Either that or it is still in route and will land eventually on some planet that likes it as much as we do. 
>   
The BB did not spew life. Life formed afterward.
> Or maybe God created life? 
>   
Maybe... Maybe not...


Regards,
Eric



>
> ---- Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote: 
>   
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Again I feel compelled to respond to such Earth centered thinking. We 
>> are NOT the center of everything. Our planet is merely a dot in billions 
>> of trillions of other dots in this universe.
>>
>> "...Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back 
>> door..."
>>
>> ok... Not really.
>>
>> "...Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have 
>> to have come from outer space..."
>>
>> Some people cannot except that life COULD come from out there.
>>
>> "...where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on 
>> Earth?..."
>>
>> There is lots of evidence to shows life could start here. But that does 
>> not mean ALL life is from here. This "Earth centered" idea is flawed in 
>> every way.
>>
>> "...It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here, 
>> where the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?..."
>>
>> Again, Earth centered and ultimately wrong. This is not to say that life 
>> that is present today on this planet could not have started on this 
>> planet. Just because someone says that meteorites might have seeded 
>> Earth, does not mean that ALL life was seeded from elsewhere. It's 
>> flawed thinking because it leaves out the fact that SOME life could have 
>> come from elsewhere. Just because someone says that rocks from space 
>> could have brought life to our planet does not mean it is all 
>> encompassing or empirical at all because there is evidence.
>>
>> I believe the Panspermia theory may be flawed (or peoples understanding 
>> of Panspermia anyway) if they state that all life came from elsewhere 
>> simply because if all life came from elsewhere then where did 
>> "elsewhere" get the life to begin with?
>>
>> It had to come into existence from somewhere. If you don't believe in 
>> evolution, then you believe in God, if you believe in God you most 
>> likely don't believe in evolution. But I ask you why you can't believe 
>> in both? (rhetorical, please do not answer this as it's NOT related to 
>> meteorites ;)) This is NOT the topic I want to get into so I will 
>> continue on...
>>
>> So you believe the Earth is the Goldilocks planet. Given that you most 
>> likely also believe there is a good chance that there is another system 
>> out there with a star similar to our Sun and quite possibly another 
>> planet similar to ours that lies within what science calls the habitable 
>> zone. Or is that too big of a stretch?
>>
>> Let's just say for the sake of argument there is another planet out 
>> there nearby (relative to our system) that is in this zone and that 
>> there is life on that planet. One can safely assume that large 
>> asteroidal and cometary debris has at some time in the past slammed into 
>> that planet. Perhaps even while life existed on it, thereby ejecting 
>> billions of tons of debris into space over time. Some of that debris 
>> would no doubt carry some form of microbial life that lives deep inside 
>> the soil and rock. (perhaps even insects) Protected from the harshness 
>> of the vacuum and cold of space.
>>
>> Now we know that if there's a Goldilocks planet that there are most 
>> likely other planets in that system as well, perhaps more, perhaps less 
>> than our system, but our knowledge of solar system formation is one that 
>> allows us to make an educated guess. The point is most of the debris 
>> would be sucked into the orbits and eventually the atmospheres of other 
>> planetary and larger bodies in that system. But. Not all of it would be. 
>> Would it? Some of it would escape. Eventually...
>>
>> Let's also say for sake of argument the Gliese 581 star system is home 
>> to our habitable planet. This system is 20 light years away. In other 
>> words it  takes light 20 years to travel to Earth. (speed of light is 
>> 186,000 miles per second). A light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles in 
>> distance. Remember that number...
>>
>> The question now is, how fast will the debris that is able to escape the 
>> system be traveling? Well, I wasn't sure and did a little digging and 
>> found this page 
>> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2001-03/985224290.As.r.html which 
>> explains the speed of an orbiting asteroid to be at 47000 mph. Since I 
>> wanted to verify, I check around and found this too: 
>> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=14258 which puts the speed 
>> of an orbiting asteroid at 67,000 mph. A difference of 20,000 mph. A BIG 
>> difference!
>>
>> Still not convinced of the accuracy of the speed, I wanted to know a 
>> more exact number I could apply to the debris to calculate the time it 
>> would take for it to reach Earth. Then I found this: 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed
>>
>> OK, I'm not a mathematician so those formulas and calculations are not 
>> something I can use just yet. How fast does debris travel out of the 
>> atmosphere, and how fast does it travel through the system in it's 
>> orbit? Will it speed up? A few more searches and yes, it does speed up. 
>> If the Voyager space probes speed up over time so too should the ejecta 
>> from the planet. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1997/PatricePean.shtml
>>
>> Speed of Voyager: 17.374 km/s = 38,864.5 mile/hour (mph)
>> Orbital Speed of Apophis: 30.728 km/s = 68,736.5 mile/hour (mph)
>>
>> A number I could work with is a happy medium between the fastest orbital 
>> speed of an asteroid, and the fastest speed of the Voyager spacecrafts.
>>
>> 38,864.5 + 68,736.5 = 107,601 MPH / 2 = 53,800.5 MPH average
>>
>> If the distance of 1 light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles and light 
>> traveling from Gliese 581 takes 20 years to reach us then that star 
>> system is 117,313,920,000,000 miles away.
>>
>> It would take a piece if debris traveling at 53,800.5 MPH approximately 
>> 2,180,535,868 hours to make the trip. There are 8760 hours in a Julian 
>> year. Divide that into our total travel time and that gives you 248,919 
>> years. (someone please check my math. I'm pretty sure this is right)
>>
>> So to travel from Gliese 581 to Earth the debris would take about a 
>> quarter million years to reach Earth. Considering the Earth is 4.6 
>> Billion years old, the 250K year interval is nothing in astronomical time.
>>
>> Scientists today believe that extremophiles are very capable of living 
>> in a dormant state for millions of years. If the pieces of debris that 
>> come from a habitable planet in the Gliese 581 system would that life 
>> then be revived once it impacts our planet in the form of a meteorite?
>>
>> I ask anyone, scientist or not to give me a good valid argument against 
>> this theory other than the lack of probability that Gliese 581 is a life 
>> bearing system. The point is it doesn't have to be our nearest solar 
>> system neighbor. It could be any solar system that has existed within 
>> the the 4.6 billion years the Earth has been here that is within that 
>> space time range.
>>
>> There are over 100 billion stars in our Milky Way alone. Do you really 
>> believe that NONE of them support life but ours?
>>
>> If I'm totally wrong or mistaken in my logic or math or anything else 
>> please by all means tell me...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric Wichman
>> www.meteoritesusa.com
>> www.meteoriteblog.com
>> www.spacifieds.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark Ford wrote:
>>     
>>> There is much documented evidence of microbes in the upper atmosphere
>>> region, I think the debatable bit though is the suggestion that life
>>> must have come from somewhere other than from Earth, - This is simply
>>> not the case. I have seen no evidence to suggest anything other than
>>> that every single life form we have ever found originated right here on
>>> earth. 
>>>
>>> Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have to
>>> have come from outer space, they are entitled to hold that view, but
>>> where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on Earth?
>>> It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here, where
>>> the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal? 
>>>
>>> Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
>>> door..
>>>
>>> Transfer of life from planet to planet via meteorites is more
>>> interesting, though even here we have the dilemma that just because
>>> highly evolved extreemophiles can potentially survive under controlled
>>> test conditions doesn't automatically mean they actually have, there are
>>> many other complex variables to consider, many of which are still poorly
>>> understood. 
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Becky
>>> and Kirk
>>> Sent: 17 September 2009 01:13
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>>>
>>> Phil,
>>>     How is this "junk" science????
>>>               Kirk...........
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:11 AM
>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> G'day, Konnichiwa, Aloha, Top 'o the morning to ya!:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Microbes from outer space living in the upper atmosphere and bacteria 
>>>> living for millions of years! If I only had more time to read junk 
>>>> science!
>>>>
>>>> Phil Whitmer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi listees,
>>>>
>>>> Some interesting reading...
>>>>
>>>> "...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey
>>>> through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 million
>>>> spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or
>>>> simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in diameter.
>>>> Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million survived
>>>> and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> that
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> planet
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> rock
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of
>>>>     
>>>>         
>>> years...."
>>>   
>>>       
>>>> Still don't believe?
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
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>
>   



From joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com  Thu Sep 17 16:11:53 2009
From: joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com (JoshuaTreeMuseum)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:11:53 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports Decrustified Meteorites
Message-ID: <245F9B16F160463CA9AB0A6C49E0D3C7@ET>

Listerians,

I get the feeling that some folks feel that fusion crusts are 
indestructible, or are unfamiliar with crustless meteorites.  These stones 
are from 5 different NWA falls.  The stone that looks remarkably similar to 
Mike Hankey's slag can be seen next to a crusted piece from the same fall. 
Of course the Hankey Stone meteorites would have fresh black crust.  If 
Mike's slag had come from NWA instead of PA, I would be inclined to think 
it's a meteorite. If you put these in the bright sun, the metal flecks and 
chondrules are plainly visible.

As to how or why these stones were involved in a process of decrustification 
if beyond me.  Maybe it was an extra thin crust.  Something about the 
silicate materials?  Maybe the crust was eaten up by tiny black holes, maybe 
the spawn of Cygnus X1?


http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/a.jpg?t=1253217247
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/b.jpg?t=1253217282
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/c.jpg?t=1253217307
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/d.jpg?t=1253217334
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/e.jpg?t=1253217361

Phil Whitmer 



From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 17 16:43:04 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:43:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Need some cash quick sale
Message-ID: <771305.25844.qm@web46401.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi to all, hope everyone is having a good day! 
I need to move some stuff asap, good deals off ebay.

Tatahouine 1 gram lots for $10.00 (2-4 frags per gram)
Camel Donga for $18-$20 per gram
NWA 4734 - $800 per gram
Nice Lunar Displays for $20 (up to 15mg each sample)
Camel Donga thin sections for $70 each - very nice thin sections!!!

complete slices and part slices of the really nice new 165g NWA stone currently being classified - $15 per gram (has been selling on ebay for up to $25 per gram)

I also have ebay listings ending soon:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1

Off ebay, I can do better prices on items listed as buy it now.

Greg C.




      


From vs.petrovich at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 16:20:00 2009
From: vs.petrovich at gmail.com (Sergey Vasiliev)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:20:00 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Ebay auctions ending in 1 day
Message-ID: <JPELLBIMOJEBPCPOJGEBEEBHCJAA.vs.petrovich@gmail.com>

Hello List!

I have some nice auctions ending soon.

1. Vyatka (H4) - 122.3 g:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190334526127

2. Dar al Gani 400 (ALUN-A) - 1.45 g:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190334528387

3. Kainsaz (CO3.2) - 1.40 g:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190334525517

4. Ozernoe (L6) - 32.5 g:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190334517206

5. Verkhnyi Saltov (IIIAB) 10.6 g:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190334524686

All items here:
http://stores.shop.ebay.com/svassiliev

Thanks!
Sergey
-------------------

Sergey Vasiliev
U Dalnice 839
Prague 5, 155 00
Czech Republic
-------------------
http://www.sv-meteorites.com
http://impactites.net
http://systematic-mineralogy.com
http://kazakhstan-minerals.com 


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 17 16:52:04 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:52:04 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
Message-ID: <COL108-W6131198F554E0B2E41B7E59BE10@phx.gbl>


Me too! As Mr Graham said, I should have looked at the file name for clues. Instead I may have burnt out some brain cells trying to remember where I've seen that stone, or one like it, before.

I think George is on to something. Why not from time to time, someone post a picture of a meteorite and we newbies try to identify it. This could be a regular thread. It would also help if the person posting the pic change the file name, now that we've all wised up to that. The meteorite should have a distinctive look or feature to it, not some weathered uNWA that nobody can identify. How about it?

Carl

GeoZay wrote:

>...Thanks for the  education guys....


 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009

From mikewren at gilanet.com  Thu Sep 17 16:57:36 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:57:36 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Mostly Announcement- La Luz,
	New Mexico is official now. Also, 2 American Main Masses for sale!
Message-ID: <A0EFE742-8805-4084-AB91-DFA75AE8D73F@gilanet.com>

Hello.

For all who have a slice or specimen of La Luz, New Mexico, it is  
officially listed in the bulletin now. I do not believe I have any  
left, except the main mass.


I also have the LAHOMA and LA LUZ Main Masses for sale. I only want to  
sell one of them. I have this offer out to someone right now, so they  
have first dibs, but I will sell one of them for $5,000.00 This is a  
darn good price for either one. You can see them in my ebay store at:

http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history


Thanks and Best Wishes

Michael


From mmurray at montrose.net  Thu Sep 17 19:33:46 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:33:46 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports Decrustified Meteorites
In-Reply-To: <245F9B16F160463CA9AB0A6C49E0D3C7@ET>
References: <245F9B16F160463CA9AB0A6C49E0D3C7@ET>
Message-ID: <7D789810-079D-4061-B8D9-4CCA69B7E463@montrose.net>

"decrustification"  I like that word!
Mike in CO
On Sep 17, 2009, at 2:11 PM, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote:

> Listerians,
>
> I get the feeling that some folks feel that fusion crusts are  
> indestructible, or are unfamiliar with crustless meteorites.  These  
> stones are from 5 different NWA falls.  The stone that looks  
> remarkably similar to Mike Hankey's slag can be seen next to a  
> crusted piece from the same fall. Of course the Hankey Stone  
> meteorites would have fresh black crust.  If Mike's slag had come  
> from NWA instead of PA, I would be inclined to think it's a  
> meteorite. If you put these in the bright sun, the metal flecks and  
> chondrules are plainly visible.
>
> As to how or why these stones were involved in a process of  
> decrustification if beyond me.  Maybe it was an extra thin crust.   
> Something about the silicate materials?  Maybe the crust was eaten  
> up by tiny black holes, maybe the spawn of Cygnus X1?
>
>
> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/a.jpg?t=1253217247
> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/b.jpg?t=1253217282
> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/c.jpg?t=1253217307
> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/d.jpg?t=1253217334
> http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z126/tboswell/e.jpg?t=1253217361
>
> Phil Whitmer
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu  Thu Sep 17 19:46:26 2009
From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 16:46:26 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pope Holds Mars Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909171015x19469e90p9b1741b76d14cfa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <25628818.1253207313318.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<f0a794130909171015x19469e90p9b1741b76d14cfa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7ba42b059bc7476e788aa54d43c23ce2.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>

Hi All:

I interviewed Brother Guy in the Feb. and May 2007 issues of Meteorite
magazine.

Larry

> The curator sounds like a pretty interesting person
>
> http://vaticanobservatory.org/GConsolmagno.html
>
> "Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it
> close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which at the end of
> the day is a kind of paganism - it's turning God into a nature
> god."[2].
>
> I think that statement is kind of relevant to some of the wacky
> conversations we've had on here recently (especially the alien life
> ones). Science and God can co-exist.
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 1:08 PM,  <countdeiro at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Galileo rolls over.....smiles...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Ken Newton <magellon.ken at gmail.com>
>>>Sent: Sep 17, 2009 12:15 PM
>>>To: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>>>Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com"
>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pope Holds Mars Meteorite
>>>
>>>The Vatican meteorite collection is most impressive.
>>>http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1984Metic..19..161S
>>>
>>>Best,
>>>kn
>>>
>>>On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Meteorites USA
>>> <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Religion meets science... Yet again.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0904135.htm
>>>>
>>>> Cool...
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Eric
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>______________________________________________
>>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>




From cdtucson at cox.net  Thu Sep 17 14:08:30 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:08:30 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
In-Reply-To: <4AB25340.6060503@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <20090917140830.DQBD6.238979.imail@fed1rmwml30>

Eric, all,
It seems to me a lot of people believe in the Big Bang theory. If you are among them then you must believe that everything on this planet did in fact come from space. Correct? I mean there was this huge explosion if you will, that when the dust settled formed our wonderful  solar system. So if everything on Earth came from this Big Bang then why is there all of this debate about life? Do some of us think that everything came from space except the dirt? No, I think many believe that everything came from the Big Bang and everything means everything. Life fits neatly into the category of everything. Doesn't it?? Therefore life also came from the Big Bang. Seems logical to me! 
Taking it one step further. If life came to Earth Via the Big Bang then wouldn't some of this life stuff have been launched to other planets as well. Perhaps even launched to other  solar systems? If so then we just need to find the planet that welcomes this life stuff. I think Mar's is too cold. The moon seems like it should be okay but it lacks atmosphere and maybe a few other things. 
So, based on the Big Bang spewing life across space , life must have landed somewhere else. Either that or it is still in route and will land eventually on some planet that likes it as much as we do. 
Or maybe God created life? 
Again, my 2 cents. Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
IMCA 5829
Meteoritemax


---- Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote: 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> Again I feel compelled to respond to such Earth centered thinking. We 
> are NOT the center of everything. Our planet is merely a dot in billions 
> of trillions of other dots in this universe.
> 
> "...Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back 
> door..."
> 
> ok... Not really.
> 
> "...Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have 
> to have come from outer space..."
> 
> Some people cannot except that life COULD come from out there.
> 
> "...where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on 
> Earth?..."
> 
> There is lots of evidence to shows life could start here. But that does 
> not mean ALL life is from here. This "Earth centered" idea is flawed in 
> every way.
> 
> "...It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here, 
> where the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?..."
> 
> Again, Earth centered and ultimately wrong. This is not to say that life 
> that is present today on this planet could not have started on this 
> planet. Just because someone says that meteorites might have seeded 
> Earth, does not mean that ALL life was seeded from elsewhere. It's 
> flawed thinking because it leaves out the fact that SOME life could have 
> come from elsewhere. Just because someone says that rocks from space 
> could have brought life to our planet does not mean it is all 
> encompassing or empirical at all because there is evidence.
> 
> I believe the Panspermia theory may be flawed (or peoples understanding 
> of Panspermia anyway) if they state that all life came from elsewhere 
> simply because if all life came from elsewhere then where did 
> "elsewhere" get the life to begin with?
> 
> It had to come into existence from somewhere. If you don't believe in 
> evolution, then you believe in God, if you believe in God you most 
> likely don't believe in evolution. But I ask you why you can't believe 
> in both? (rhetorical, please do not answer this as it's NOT related to 
> meteorites ;)) This is NOT the topic I want to get into so I will 
> continue on...
> 
> So you believe the Earth is the Goldilocks planet. Given that you most 
> likely also believe there is a good chance that there is another system 
> out there with a star similar to our Sun and quite possibly another 
> planet similar to ours that lies within what science calls the habitable 
> zone. Or is that too big of a stretch?
> 
> Let's just say for the sake of argument there is another planet out 
> there nearby (relative to our system) that is in this zone and that 
> there is life on that planet. One can safely assume that large 
> asteroidal and cometary debris has at some time in the past slammed into 
> that planet. Perhaps even while life existed on it, thereby ejecting 
> billions of tons of debris into space over time. Some of that debris 
> would no doubt carry some form of microbial life that lives deep inside 
> the soil and rock. (perhaps even insects) Protected from the harshness 
> of the vacuum and cold of space.
> 
> Now we know that if there's a Goldilocks planet that there are most 
> likely other planets in that system as well, perhaps more, perhaps less 
> than our system, but our knowledge of solar system formation is one that 
> allows us to make an educated guess. The point is most of the debris 
> would be sucked into the orbits and eventually the atmospheres of other 
> planetary and larger bodies in that system. But. Not all of it would be. 
> Would it? Some of it would escape. Eventually...
> 
> Let's also say for sake of argument the Gliese 581 star system is home 
> to our habitable planet. This system is 20 light years away. In other 
> words it  takes light 20 years to travel to Earth. (speed of light is 
> 186,000 miles per second). A light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles in 
> distance. Remember that number...
> 
> The question now is, how fast will the debris that is able to escape the 
> system be traveling? Well, I wasn't sure and did a little digging and 
> found this page 
> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2001-03/985224290.As.r.html which 
> explains the speed of an orbiting asteroid to be at 47000 mph. Since I 
> wanted to verify, I check around and found this too: 
> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=14258 which puts the speed 
> of an orbiting asteroid at 67,000 mph. A difference of 20,000 mph. A BIG 
> difference!
> 
> Still not convinced of the accuracy of the speed, I wanted to know a 
> more exact number I could apply to the debris to calculate the time it 
> would take for it to reach Earth. Then I found this: 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed
> 
> OK, I'm not a mathematician so those formulas and calculations are not 
> something I can use just yet. How fast does debris travel out of the 
> atmosphere, and how fast does it travel through the system in it's 
> orbit? Will it speed up? A few more searches and yes, it does speed up. 
> If the Voyager space probes speed up over time so too should the ejecta 
> from the planet. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1997/PatricePean.shtml
> 
> Speed of Voyager: 17.374 km/s = 38,864.5 mile/hour (mph)
> Orbital Speed of Apophis: 30.728 km/s = 68,736.5 mile/hour (mph)
> 
> A number I could work with is a happy medium between the fastest orbital 
> speed of an asteroid, and the fastest speed of the Voyager spacecrafts.
> 
> 38,864.5 + 68,736.5 = 107,601 MPH / 2 = 53,800.5 MPH average
> 
> If the distance of 1 light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles and light 
> traveling from Gliese 581 takes 20 years to reach us then that star 
> system is 117,313,920,000,000 miles away.
> 
> It would take a piece if debris traveling at 53,800.5 MPH approximately 
> 2,180,535,868 hours to make the trip. There are 8760 hours in a Julian 
> year. Divide that into our total travel time and that gives you 248,919 
> years. (someone please check my math. I'm pretty sure this is right)
> 
> So to travel from Gliese 581 to Earth the debris would take about a 
> quarter million years to reach Earth. Considering the Earth is 4.6 
> Billion years old, the 250K year interval is nothing in astronomical time.
> 
> Scientists today believe that extremophiles are very capable of living 
> in a dormant state for millions of years. If the pieces of debris that 
> come from a habitable planet in the Gliese 581 system would that life 
> then be revived once it impacts our planet in the form of a meteorite?
> 
> I ask anyone, scientist or not to give me a good valid argument against 
> this theory other than the lack of probability that Gliese 581 is a life 
> bearing system. The point is it doesn't have to be our nearest solar 
> system neighbor. It could be any solar system that has existed within 
> the the 4.6 billion years the Earth has been here that is within that 
> space time range.
> 
> There are over 100 billion stars in our Milky Way alone. Do you really 
> believe that NONE of them support life but ours?
> 
> If I'm totally wrong or mistaken in my logic or math or anything else 
> please by all means tell me...
> 
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> www.meteoritesusa.com
> www.meteoriteblog.com
> www.spacifieds.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark Ford wrote:
> > There is much documented evidence of microbes in the upper atmosphere
> > region, I think the debatable bit though is the suggestion that life
> > must have come from somewhere other than from Earth, - This is simply
> > not the case. I have seen no evidence to suggest anything other than
> > that every single life form we have ever found originated right here on
> > earth. 
> >
> > Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have to
> > have come from outer space, they are entitled to hold that view, but
> > where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on Earth?
> > It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here, where
> > the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal? 
> >
> > Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
> > door..
> >
> > Transfer of life from planet to planet via meteorites is more
> > interesting, though even here we have the dilemma that just because
> > highly evolved extreemophiles can potentially survive under controlled
> > test conditions doesn't automatically mean they actually have, there are
> > many other complex variables to consider, many of which are still poorly
> > understood. 
> >
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Becky
> > and Kirk
> > Sent: 17 September 2009 01:13
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
> >
> > Phil,
> >     How is this "junk" science????
> >               Kirk...........
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:11 AM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
> >
> >
> >   
> >> G'day, Konnichiwa, Aloha, Top 'o the morning to ya!:
> >>
> >>
> >> Microbes from outer space living in the upper atmosphere and bacteria 
> >> living for millions of years! If I only had more time to read junk 
> >> science!
> >>
> >> Phil Whitmer
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi listees,
> >>
> >> Some interesting reading...
> >>
> >> "...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey
> >> through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 million
> >> spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or
> >> simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in diameter.
> >> Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million survived
> >> and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting
> >>     
> > that
> >   
> >> even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one
> >>     
> > planet
> >   
> >> to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a
> >>     
> > rock
> >   
> >> a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of
> >>     
> > years...."
> >   
> >> Still don't believe?
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
> >>     
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 
> >
> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. 
> >
> > GENERAL STATEMENT:
> >
> > Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes.
> >
> > Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> >   
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep 17 23:19:48 2009
From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net (Brian Cox)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:19:48 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Anyone have any idea how much ROY and Silver Dry
	Lake 001 meteorites are going for per gram?
Message-ID: <0A29FCDC3B7444C99AB1B2796E412FDC@user6e6e286533>

Hello fellow meteorite collectors! How is everyone tonight? I hope you're 
having a great week and tomorrow is Friday! ;-)

Does anyone have any idea how much per gram " ROY"  found 1933, Harding 
County, New Mexico is going for?    I have a 5.1 gm specimen, originally 
from the James Dupont Collection Piece # 613 and had also been a H.H. 
Nininger specimen 234.45 and I purchased it many years ago from Michael 
Cottingham.

Also, I have a 0.3 gram fragment of " SILVER DRY LAKE 001 " Stone Chondrite 
L4, from San Bernardino, California, Found May 27, 2000, and I purchased it 
many years ago from Paul Martyn.

You can email me off list if you like if you have any idea or even if you 
want to give it a go and make me an offer. I'll send you photos by email if 
you're interested.

Thanks for your help.

Brian Cox

IMCA   #6387

email:     searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net 



From mark.ford at ssl.gb.com  Fri Sep 18 05:22:26 2009
From: mark.ford at ssl.gb.com (Mark Ford)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:22:26 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
In-Reply-To: <4AB25340.6060503@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <8EE79765E021471E8A039DE7F3318DFD@ET>	<0C025FABBB684F4DBE4E5AC52BFDA973@owner55652f88b>
	<29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49724C39@gamma.ssl.atw>
	<4AB25340.6060503@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49724C5C@gamma.ssl.atw>


I did not say all life in the universe is from Earth, read my posts
again!!

I said the life we find on Earth originated from Earth that's all. 

As I said there is every possibility life has started else where too.

We are not the centre of the universe! I never said we are, please don't
misquote me.

Best
Mark




-----Original Message-----
From: Meteorites USA [mailto:eric at meteoritesusa.com] 
Sent: 17 September 2009 16:18
To: Mark Ford; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!

Hello everyone,

Again I feel compelled to respond to such Earth centered thinking. We 
are NOT the center of everything. Our planet is merely a dot in billions

of trillions of other dots in this universe.

"...Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back 
door..."

ok... Not really.

"...Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have 
to have come from outer space..."

Some people cannot except that life COULD come from out there.

"...where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on 
Earth?..."

There is lots of evidence to shows life could start here. But that does 
not mean ALL life is from here. This "Earth centered" idea is flawed in 
every way.

"...It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here, 
where the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?..."

Again, Earth centered and ultimately wrong. This is not to say that life

that is present today on this planet could not have started on this 
planet. Just because someone says that meteorites might have seeded 
Earth, does not mean that ALL life was seeded from elsewhere. It's 
flawed thinking because it leaves out the fact that SOME life could have

come from elsewhere. Just because someone says that rocks from space 
could have brought life to our planet does not mean it is all 
encompassing or empirical at all because there is evidence.

I believe the Panspermia theory may be flawed (or peoples understanding 
of Panspermia anyway) if they state that all life came from elsewhere 
simply because if all life came from elsewhere then where did 
"elsewhere" get the life to begin with?

It had to come into existence from somewhere. If you don't believe in 
evolution, then you believe in God, if you believe in God you most 
likely don't believe in evolution. But I ask you why you can't believe 
in both? (rhetorical, please do not answer this as it's NOT related to 
meteorites ;)) This is NOT the topic I want to get into so I will 
continue on...

So you believe the Earth is the Goldilocks planet. Given that you most 
likely also believe there is a good chance that there is another system 
out there with a star similar to our Sun and quite possibly another 
planet similar to ours that lies within what science calls the habitable

zone. Or is that too big of a stretch?

Let's just say for the sake of argument there is another planet out 
there nearby (relative to our system) that is in this zone and that 
there is life on that planet. One can safely assume that large 
asteroidal and cometary debris has at some time in the past slammed into

that planet. Perhaps even while life existed on it, thereby ejecting 
billions of tons of debris into space over time. Some of that debris 
would no doubt carry some form of microbial life that lives deep inside 
the soil and rock. (perhaps even insects) Protected from the harshness 
of the vacuum and cold of space.

Now we know that if there's a Goldilocks planet that there are most 
likely other planets in that system as well, perhaps more, perhaps less 
than our system, but our knowledge of solar system formation is one that

allows us to make an educated guess. The point is most of the debris 
would be sucked into the orbits and eventually the atmospheres of other 
planetary and larger bodies in that system. But. Not all of it would be.

Would it? Some of it would escape. Eventually...

Let's also say for sake of argument the Gliese 581 star system is home 
to our habitable planet. This system is 20 light years away. In other 
words it  takes light 20 years to travel to Earth. (speed of light is 
186,000 miles per second). A light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles in 
distance. Remember that number...

The question now is, how fast will the debris that is able to escape the

system be traveling? Well, I wasn't sure and did a little digging and 
found this page 
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2001-03/985224290.As.r.html which 
explains the speed of an orbiting asteroid to be at 47000 mph. Since I 
wanted to verify, I check around and found this too: 
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=14258 which puts the speed 
of an orbiting asteroid at 67,000 mph. A difference of 20,000 mph. A BIG

difference!

Still not convinced of the accuracy of the speed, I wanted to know a 
more exact number I could apply to the debris to calculate the time it 
would take for it to reach Earth. Then I found this: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed

OK, I'm not a mathematician so those formulas and calculations are not 
something I can use just yet. How fast does debris travel out of the 
atmosphere, and how fast does it travel through the system in it's 
orbit? Will it speed up? A few more searches and yes, it does speed up. 
If the Voyager space probes speed up over time so too should the ejecta 
from the planet. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1997/PatricePean.shtml

Speed of Voyager: 17.374 km/s = 38,864.5 mile/hour (mph)
Orbital Speed of Apophis: 30.728 km/s = 68,736.5 mile/hour (mph)

A number I could work with is a happy medium between the fastest orbital

speed of an asteroid, and the fastest speed of the Voyager spacecrafts.

38,864.5 + 68,736.5 = 107,601 MPH / 2 = 53,800.5 MPH average

If the distance of 1 light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles and light 
traveling from Gliese 581 takes 20 years to reach us then that star 
system is 117,313,920,000,000 miles away.

It would take a piece if debris traveling at 53,800.5 MPH approximately 
2,180,535,868 hours to make the trip. There are 8760 hours in a Julian 
year. Divide that into our total travel time and that gives you 248,919 
years. (someone please check my math. I'm pretty sure this is right)

So to travel from Gliese 581 to Earth the debris would take about a 
quarter million years to reach Earth. Considering the Earth is 4.6 
Billion years old, the 250K year interval is nothing in astronomical
time.

Scientists today believe that extremophiles are very capable of living 
in a dormant state for millions of years. If the pieces of debris that 
come from a habitable planet in the Gliese 581 system would that life 
then be revived once it impacts our planet in the form of a meteorite?

I ask anyone, scientist or not to give me a good valid argument against 
this theory other than the lack of probability that Gliese 581 is a life

bearing system. The point is it doesn't have to be our nearest solar 
system neighbor. It could be any solar system that has existed within 
the the 4.6 billion years the Earth has been here that is within that 
space time range.

There are over 100 billion stars in our Milky Way alone. Do you really 
believe that NONE of them support life but ours?

If I'm totally wrong or mistaken in my logic or math or anything else 
please by all means tell me...

Regards,
Eric Wichman
www.meteoritesusa.com
www.meteoriteblog.com
www.spacifieds.com






Mark Ford wrote:
> There is much documented evidence of microbes in the upper atmosphere
> region, I think the debatable bit though is the suggestion that life
> must have come from somewhere other than from Earth, - This is simply
> not the case. I have seen no evidence to suggest anything other than
> that every single life form we have ever found originated right here
on
> earth. 
>
> Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have to
> have come from outer space, they are entitled to hold that view, but
> where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on
Earth?
> It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here,
where
> the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal? 
>
> Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
> door..
>
> Transfer of life from planet to planet via meteorites is more
> interesting, though even here we have the dilemma that just because
> highly evolved extreemophiles can potentially survive under controlled
> test conditions doesn't automatically mean they actually have, there
are
> many other complex variables to consider, many of which are still
poorly
> understood. 
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
Becky
> and Kirk
> Sent: 17 September 2009 01:13
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>
> Phil,
>     How is this "junk" science????
>               Kirk...........
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:11 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>
>
>   
>> G'day, Konnichiwa, Aloha, Top 'o the morning to ya!:
>>
>>
>> Microbes from outer space living in the upper atmosphere and bacteria

>> living for millions of years! If I only had more time to read junk 
>> science!
>>
>> Phil Whitmer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi listees,
>>
>> Some interesting reading...
>>
>> "...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey
>> through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 million
>> spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or
>> simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in diameter.
>> Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million survived
>> and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting
>>     
> that
>   
>> even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one
>>     
> planet
>   
>> to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a
>>     
> rock
>   
>> a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of
>>     
> years...."
>   
>> Still don't believe?
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
>>     
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
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>
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You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose
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> ______________________________________________
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>   


CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. 

GENERAL STATEMENT:

Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes.

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From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Fri Sep 18 06:20:15 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 06:20:15 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 18,
	2009
Message-ID: <d40.4e28567a.37e4b8df@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_18_2009.html  



From spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 18 07:05:50 2009
From: spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com (Melanie Matthews)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 04:05:50 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Where all the iron and nickle came from...?
Message-ID: <BLU137-W2777B03F53A2AE719537A7D6E00@phx.gbl>


Hello list, 
These metallic elements are so common in stony meteorites - as we know... now, don't they originally form at the cores of stars, and the traces of these metals that contained during the earliest days of the formation of our Solar System, are the remnants of nearby dead stars that exploded millions or billions of years before the Solar System started to emerge? 

Regards 
- Mel 

_________________________________________________________________
New: Messenger sign-in on the MSN homepage
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677403

From grf2 at comcast.net  Fri Sep 18 10:05:26 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:05:26 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
References: <20090917140830.DQBD6.238979.imail@fed1rmwml30>
Message-ID: <55125739C65E4686988EDBB06F95D97B@ASUS>

I have to agree. So too,
If the BB is the beginning WHO or if you prefer WHAT started IT?
Some would call that a PRIME MOVER. Maybe even, dare I venture, THE prime 
mover.
Jerry Flaherty

--------------------------------------------------
From: <cdtucson at cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:08 PM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Mark Ford" 
<mark.ford at ssl.gb.com>; "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!

> Eric, all,
> It seems to me a lot of people believe in the Big Bang theory. If you are 
> among them then you must believe that everything on this planet did in 
> fact come from space. Correct? I mean there was this huge explosion if you 
> will, that when the dust settled formed our wonderful  solar system. So if 
> everything on Earth came from this Big Bang then why is there all of this 
> debate about life? Do some of us think that everything came from space 
> except the dirt? No, I think many believe that everything came from the 
> Big Bang and everything means everything. Life fits neatly into the 
> category of everything. Doesn't it?? Therefore life also came from the Big 
> Bang. Seems logical to me!
> Taking it one step further. If life came to Earth Via the Big Bang then 
> wouldn't some of this life stuff have been launched to other planets as 
> well. Perhaps even launched to other  solar systems? If so then we just 
> need to find the planet that welcomes this life stuff. I think Mar's is 
> too cold. The moon seems like it should be okay but it lacks atmosphere 
> and maybe a few other things.
> So, based on the Big Bang spewing life across space , life must have 
> landed somewhere else. Either that or it is still in route and will land 
> eventually on some planet that likes it as much as we do.
> Or maybe God created life?
> Again, my 2 cents. Carl
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> IMCA 5829
> Meteoritemax
>
>
> ---- Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Again I feel compelled to respond to such Earth centered thinking. We
>> are NOT the center of everything. Our planet is merely a dot in billions
>> of trillions of other dots in this universe.
>>
>> "...Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
>> door..."
>>
>> ok... Not really.
>>
>> "...Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have
>> to have come from outer space..."
>>
>> Some people cannot except that life COULD come from out there.
>>
>> "...where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on
>> Earth?..."
>>
>> There is lots of evidence to shows life could start here. But that does
>> not mean ALL life is from here. This "Earth centered" idea is flawed in
>> every way.
>>
>> "...It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here,
>> where the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?..."
>>
>> Again, Earth centered and ultimately wrong. This is not to say that life
>> that is present today on this planet could not have started on this
>> planet. Just because someone says that meteorites might have seeded
>> Earth, does not mean that ALL life was seeded from elsewhere. It's
>> flawed thinking because it leaves out the fact that SOME life could have
>> come from elsewhere. Just because someone says that rocks from space
>> could have brought life to our planet does not mean it is all
>> encompassing or empirical at all because there is evidence.
>>
>> I believe the Panspermia theory may be flawed (or peoples understanding
>> of Panspermia anyway) if they state that all life came from elsewhere
>> simply because if all life came from elsewhere then where did
>> "elsewhere" get the life to begin with?
>>
>> It had to come into existence from somewhere. If you don't believe in
>> evolution, then you believe in God, if you believe in God you most
>> likely don't believe in evolution. But I ask you why you can't believe
>> in both? (rhetorical, please do not answer this as it's NOT related to
>> meteorites ;)) This is NOT the topic I want to get into so I will
>> continue on...
>>
>> So you believe the Earth is the Goldilocks planet. Given that you most
>> likely also believe there is a good chance that there is another system
>> out there with a star similar to our Sun and quite possibly another
>> planet similar to ours that lies within what science calls the habitable
>> zone. Or is that too big of a stretch?
>>
>> Let's just say for the sake of argument there is another planet out
>> there nearby (relative to our system) that is in this zone and that
>> there is life on that planet. One can safely assume that large
>> asteroidal and cometary debris has at some time in the past slammed into
>> that planet. Perhaps even while life existed on it, thereby ejecting
>> billions of tons of debris into space over time. Some of that debris
>> would no doubt carry some form of microbial life that lives deep inside
>> the soil and rock. (perhaps even insects) Protected from the harshness
>> of the vacuum and cold of space.
>>
>> Now we know that if there's a Goldilocks planet that there are most
>> likely other planets in that system as well, perhaps more, perhaps less
>> than our system, but our knowledge of solar system formation is one that
>> allows us to make an educated guess. The point is most of the debris
>> would be sucked into the orbits and eventually the atmospheres of other
>> planetary and larger bodies in that system. But. Not all of it would be.
>> Would it? Some of it would escape. Eventually...
>>
>> Let's also say for sake of argument the Gliese 581 star system is home
>> to our habitable planet. This system is 20 light years away. In other
>> words it  takes light 20 years to travel to Earth. (speed of light is
>> 186,000 miles per second). A light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles in
>> distance. Remember that number...
>>
>> The question now is, how fast will the debris that is able to escape the
>> system be traveling? Well, I wasn't sure and did a little digging and
>> found this page
>> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2001-03/985224290.As.r.html which
>> explains the speed of an orbiting asteroid to be at 47000 mph. Since I
>> wanted to verify, I check around and found this too:
>> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=14258 which puts the speed
>> of an orbiting asteroid at 67,000 mph. A difference of 20,000 mph. A BIG
>> difference!
>>
>> Still not convinced of the accuracy of the speed, I wanted to know a
>> more exact number I could apply to the debris to calculate the time it
>> would take for it to reach Earth. Then I found this:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed
>>
>> OK, I'm not a mathematician so those formulas and calculations are not
>> something I can use just yet. How fast does debris travel out of the
>> atmosphere, and how fast does it travel through the system in it's
>> orbit? Will it speed up? A few more searches and yes, it does speed up.
>> If the Voyager space probes speed up over time so too should the ejecta
>> from the planet. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1997/PatricePean.shtml
>>
>> Speed of Voyager: 17.374 km/s = 38,864.5 mile/hour (mph)
>> Orbital Speed of Apophis: 30.728 km/s = 68,736.5 mile/hour (mph)
>>
>> A number I could work with is a happy medium between the fastest orbital
>> speed of an asteroid, and the fastest speed of the Voyager spacecrafts.
>>
>> 38,864.5 + 68,736.5 = 107,601 MPH / 2 = 53,800.5 MPH average
>>
>> If the distance of 1 light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles and light
>> traveling from Gliese 581 takes 20 years to reach us then that star
>> system is 117,313,920,000,000 miles away.
>>
>> It would take a piece if debris traveling at 53,800.5 MPH approximately
>> 2,180,535,868 hours to make the trip. There are 8760 hours in a Julian
>> year. Divide that into our total travel time and that gives you 248,919
>> years. (someone please check my math. I'm pretty sure this is right)
>>
>> So to travel from Gliese 581 to Earth the debris would take about a
>> quarter million years to reach Earth. Considering the Earth is 4.6
>> Billion years old, the 250K year interval is nothing in astronomical 
>> time.
>>
>> Scientists today believe that extremophiles are very capable of living
>> in a dormant state for millions of years. If the pieces of debris that
>> come from a habitable planet in the Gliese 581 system would that life
>> then be revived once it impacts our planet in the form of a meteorite?
>>
>> I ask anyone, scientist or not to give me a good valid argument against
>> this theory other than the lack of probability that Gliese 581 is a life
>> bearing system. The point is it doesn't have to be our nearest solar
>> system neighbor. It could be any solar system that has existed within
>> the the 4.6 billion years the Earth has been here that is within that
>> space time range.
>>
>> There are over 100 billion stars in our Milky Way alone. Do you really
>> believe that NONE of them support life but ours?
>>
>> If I'm totally wrong or mistaken in my logic or math or anything else
>> please by all means tell me...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric Wichman
>> www.meteoritesusa.com
>> www.meteoriteblog.com
>> www.spacifieds.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark Ford wrote:
>> > There is much documented evidence of microbes in the upper atmosphere
>> > region, I think the debatable bit though is the suggestion that life
>> > must have come from somewhere other than from Earth, - This is simply
>> > not the case. I have seen no evidence to suggest anything other than
>> > that every single life form we have ever found originated right here on
>> > earth.
>> >
>> > Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have to
>> > have come from outer space, they are entitled to hold that view, but
>> > where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on Earth?
>> > It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here, where
>> > the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?
>> >
>> > Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
>> > door..
>> >
>> > Transfer of life from planet to planet via meteorites is more
>> > interesting, though even here we have the dilemma that just because
>> > highly evolved extreemophiles can potentially survive under controlled
>> > test conditions doesn't automatically mean they actually have, there 
>> > are
>> > many other complex variables to consider, many of which are still 
>> > poorly
>> > understood.
>> >
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Becky
>> > and Kirk
>> > Sent: 17 September 2009 01:13
>> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>> >
>> > Phil,
>> >     How is this "junk" science????
>> >               Kirk...........
>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>> > From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
>> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:11 AM
>> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> G'day, Konnichiwa, Aloha, Top 'o the morning to ya!:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Microbes from outer space living in the upper atmosphere and bacteria
>> >> living for millions of years! If I only had more time to read junk
>> >> science!
>> >>
>> >> Phil Whitmer
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hi listees,
>> >>
>> >> Some interesting reading...
>> >>
>> >> "...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey
>> >> through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 million
>> >> spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or
>> >> simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in diameter.
>> >> Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million survived
>> >> and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting
>> >>
>> > that
>> >
>> >> even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one
>> >>
>> > planet
>> >
>> >> to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a
>> >>
>> > rock
>> >
>> >> a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of
>> >>
>> > years...."
>> >
>> >> Still don't believe?
>> >> ______________________________________________
>> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
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>> >
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From bandk at chorus.net  Fri Sep 18 10:20:02 2009
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:20:02 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
References: <20090917140830.DQBD6.238979.imail@fed1rmwml30>
	<55125739C65E4686988EDBB06F95D97B@ASUS>
Message-ID: <6CCA103DE04F4F2685FE5D9A5BA475A6@owner55652f88b>

Yes---it would like the PRIME MOVER indeed. This singular force had to 
include ALL OF THE INFORMATION, in the beginning BEFORE the Big Bang, into 
the Big Bang, that the Universe would ever need to accomplish all of the 
wondrous things that occur in our Universe to this day.

This has been called----"The big download" of information. Seems to me that 
something had to download or put all of this information into the 
singularity that became the Big Bang BEFORE it exploded into the known 
Universe. That seems pretty miraculous to me!

Kirk......:-)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jerry Flaherty" <grf2 at comcast.net>
To: <cdtucson at cox.net>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Mark Ford" 
<mark.ford at ssl.gb.com>; "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!


>I have to agree. So too,
> If the BB is the beginning WHO or if you prefer WHAT started IT?
> Some would call that a PRIME MOVER. Maybe even, dare I venture, THE prime 
> mover.
> Jerry Flaherty
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: <cdtucson at cox.net>
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:08 PM
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Mark Ford" 
> <mark.ford at ssl.gb.com>; "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>
>> Eric, all,
>> It seems to me a lot of people believe in the Big Bang theory. If you are 
>> among them then you must believe that everything on this planet did in 
>> fact come from space. Correct? I mean there was this huge explosion if 
>> you will, that when the dust settled formed our wonderful  solar system. 
>> So if everything on Earth came from this Big Bang then why is there all 
>> of this debate about life? Do some of us think that everything came from 
>> space except the dirt? No, I think many believe that everything came from 
>> the Big Bang and everything means everything. Life fits neatly into the 
>> category of everything. Doesn't it?? Therefore life also came from the 
>> Big Bang. Seems logical to me!
>> Taking it one step further. If life came to Earth Via the Big Bang then 
>> wouldn't some of this life stuff have been launched to other planets as 
>> well. Perhaps even launched to other  solar systems? If so then we just 
>> need to find the planet that welcomes this life stuff. I think Mar's is 
>> too cold. The moon seems like it should be okay but it lacks atmosphere 
>> and maybe a few other things.
>> So, based on the Big Bang spewing life across space , life must have 
>> landed somewhere else. Either that or it is still in route and will land 
>> eventually on some planet that likes it as much as we do.
>> Or maybe God created life?
>> Again, my 2 cents. Carl
>> --
>> Carl or Debbie Esparza
>> IMCA 5829
>> Meteoritemax
>>
>>
>> ---- Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> Again I feel compelled to respond to such Earth centered thinking. We
>>> are NOT the center of everything. Our planet is merely a dot in billions
>>> of trillions of other dots in this universe.
>>>
>>> "...Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
>>> door..."
>>>
>>> ok... Not really.
>>>
>>> "...Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have
>>> to have come from outer space..."
>>>
>>> Some people cannot except that life COULD come from out there.
>>>
>>> "...where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on
>>> Earth?..."
>>>
>>> There is lots of evidence to shows life could start here. But that does
>>> not mean ALL life is from here. This "Earth centered" idea is flawed in
>>> every way.
>>>
>>> "...It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here,
>>> where the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?..."
>>>
>>> Again, Earth centered and ultimately wrong. This is not to say that life
>>> that is present today on this planet could not have started on this
>>> planet. Just because someone says that meteorites might have seeded
>>> Earth, does not mean that ALL life was seeded from elsewhere. It's
>>> flawed thinking because it leaves out the fact that SOME life could have
>>> come from elsewhere. Just because someone says that rocks from space
>>> could have brought life to our planet does not mean it is all
>>> encompassing or empirical at all because there is evidence.
>>>
>>> I believe the Panspermia theory may be flawed (or peoples understanding
>>> of Panspermia anyway) if they state that all life came from elsewhere
>>> simply because if all life came from elsewhere then where did
>>> "elsewhere" get the life to begin with?
>>>
>>> It had to come into existence from somewhere. If you don't believe in
>>> evolution, then you believe in God, if you believe in God you most
>>> likely don't believe in evolution. But I ask you why you can't believe
>>> in both? (rhetorical, please do not answer this as it's NOT related to
>>> meteorites ;)) This is NOT the topic I want to get into so I will
>>> continue on...
>>>
>>> So you believe the Earth is the Goldilocks planet. Given that you most
>>> likely also believe there is a good chance that there is another system
>>> out there with a star similar to our Sun and quite possibly another
>>> planet similar to ours that lies within what science calls the habitable
>>> zone. Or is that too big of a stretch?
>>>
>>> Let's just say for the sake of argument there is another planet out
>>> there nearby (relative to our system) that is in this zone and that
>>> there is life on that planet. One can safely assume that large
>>> asteroidal and cometary debris has at some time in the past slammed into
>>> that planet. Perhaps even while life existed on it, thereby ejecting
>>> billions of tons of debris into space over time. Some of that debris
>>> would no doubt carry some form of microbial life that lives deep inside
>>> the soil and rock. (perhaps even insects) Protected from the harshness
>>> of the vacuum and cold of space.
>>>
>>> Now we know that if there's a Goldilocks planet that there are most
>>> likely other planets in that system as well, perhaps more, perhaps less
>>> than our system, but our knowledge of solar system formation is one that
>>> allows us to make an educated guess. The point is most of the debris
>>> would be sucked into the orbits and eventually the atmospheres of other
>>> planetary and larger bodies in that system. But. Not all of it would be.
>>> Would it? Some of it would escape. Eventually...
>>>
>>> Let's also say for sake of argument the Gliese 581 star system is home
>>> to our habitable planet. This system is 20 light years away. In other
>>> words it  takes light 20 years to travel to Earth. (speed of light is
>>> 186,000 miles per second). A light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles in
>>> distance. Remember that number...
>>>
>>> The question now is, how fast will the debris that is able to escape the
>>> system be traveling? Well, I wasn't sure and did a little digging and
>>> found this page
>>> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2001-03/985224290.As.r.html which
>>> explains the speed of an orbiting asteroid to be at 47000 mph. Since I
>>> wanted to verify, I check around and found this too:
>>> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=14258 which puts the speed
>>> of an orbiting asteroid at 67,000 mph. A difference of 20,000 mph. A BIG
>>> difference!
>>>
>>> Still not convinced of the accuracy of the speed, I wanted to know a
>>> more exact number I could apply to the debris to calculate the time it
>>> would take for it to reach Earth. Then I found this:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed
>>>
>>> OK, I'm not a mathematician so those formulas and calculations are not
>>> something I can use just yet. How fast does debris travel out of the
>>> atmosphere, and how fast does it travel through the system in it's
>>> orbit? Will it speed up? A few more searches and yes, it does speed up.
>>> If the Voyager space probes speed up over time so too should the ejecta
>>> from the planet. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1997/PatricePean.shtml
>>>
>>> Speed of Voyager: 17.374 km/s = 38,864.5 mile/hour (mph)
>>> Orbital Speed of Apophis: 30.728 km/s = 68,736.5 mile/hour (mph)
>>>
>>> A number I could work with is a happy medium between the fastest orbital
>>> speed of an asteroid, and the fastest speed of the Voyager spacecrafts.
>>>
>>> 38,864.5 + 68,736.5 = 107,601 MPH / 2 = 53,800.5 MPH average
>>>
>>> If the distance of 1 light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles and light
>>> traveling from Gliese 581 takes 20 years to reach us then that star
>>> system is 117,313,920,000,000 miles away.
>>>
>>> It would take a piece if debris traveling at 53,800.5 MPH approximately
>>> 2,180,535,868 hours to make the trip. There are 8760 hours in a Julian
>>> year. Divide that into our total travel time and that gives you 248,919
>>> years. (someone please check my math. I'm pretty sure this is right)
>>>
>>> So to travel from Gliese 581 to Earth the debris would take about a
>>> quarter million years to reach Earth. Considering the Earth is 4.6
>>> Billion years old, the 250K year interval is nothing in astronomical 
>>> time.
>>>
>>> Scientists today believe that extremophiles are very capable of living
>>> in a dormant state for millions of years. If the pieces of debris that
>>> come from a habitable planet in the Gliese 581 system would that life
>>> then be revived once it impacts our planet in the form of a meteorite?
>>>
>>> I ask anyone, scientist or not to give me a good valid argument against
>>> this theory other than the lack of probability that Gliese 581 is a life
>>> bearing system. The point is it doesn't have to be our nearest solar
>>> system neighbor. It could be any solar system that has existed within
>>> the the 4.6 billion years the Earth has been here that is within that
>>> space time range.
>>>
>>> There are over 100 billion stars in our Milky Way alone. Do you really
>>> believe that NONE of them support life but ours?
>>>
>>> If I'm totally wrong or mistaken in my logic or math or anything else
>>> please by all means tell me...
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Eric Wichman
>>> www.meteoritesusa.com
>>> www.meteoriteblog.com
>>> www.spacifieds.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark Ford wrote:
>>> > There is much documented evidence of microbes in the upper atmosphere
>>> > region, I think the debatable bit though is the suggestion that life
>>> > must have come from somewhere other than from Earth, - This is simply
>>> > not the case. I have seen no evidence to suggest anything other than
>>> > that every single life form we have ever found originated right here 
>>> > on
>>> > earth.
>>> >
>>> > Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have to
>>> > have come from outer space, they are entitled to hold that view, but
>>> > where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on 
>>> > Earth?
>>> > It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here, 
>>> > where
>>> > the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?
>>> >
>>> > Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
>>> > door..
>>> >
>>> > Transfer of life from planet to planet via meteorites is more
>>> > interesting, though even here we have the dilemma that just because
>>> > highly evolved extreemophiles can potentially survive under controlled
>>> > test conditions doesn't automatically mean they actually have, there 
>>> > are
>>> > many other complex variables to consider, many of which are still 
>>> > poorly
>>> > understood.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Mark
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of 
>>> > Becky
>>> > and Kirk
>>> > Sent: 17 September 2009 01:13
>>> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>>> >
>>> > Phil,
>>> >     How is this "junk" science????
>>> >               Kirk...........
>>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> > From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
>>> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:11 AM
>>> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> G'day, Konnichiwa, Aloha, Top 'o the morning to ya!:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Microbes from outer space living in the upper atmosphere and bacteria
>>> >> living for millions of years! If I only had more time to read junk
>>> >> science!
>>> >>
>>> >> Phil Whitmer
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi listees,
>>> >>
>>> >> Some interesting reading...
>>> >>
>>> >> "...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey
>>> >> through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 million
>>> >> spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or
>>> >> simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in diameter.
>>> >> Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million survived
>>> >> and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting
>>> >>
>>> > that
>>> >
>>> >> even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one
>>> >>
>>> > planet
>>> >
>>> >> to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a
>>> >>
>>> > rock
>>> >
>>> >> a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of
>>> >>
>>> > years...."
>>> >
>>> >> Still don't believe?
>>> >> ______________________________________________
>>> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > ______________________________________________
>>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> >
>>> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
>>> >
>>> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you 
>>> > are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email 
>>> > info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or 
>>> > attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other 
>>> > person.
>>> >
>>> > GENERAL STATEMENT:
>>> >
>>> > Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and 
>>> > communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective 
>>> > operation of the system and for other lawful purposes.
>>> >
>>> > Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 
>>> > 0DP. Company No 1800317
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ______________________________________________
>>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
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>>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
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>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
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>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
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> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From grf2 at comcast.net  Fri Sep 18 10:31:27 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:31:27 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
References: <20090917140830.DQBD6.238979.imail@fed1rmwml30><55125739C65E4686988EDBB06F95D97B@ASUS>
	<6CCA103DE04F4F2685FE5D9A5BA475A6@owner55652f88b>
Message-ID: <B75E021DF7214233B034E75DF7DE7C2E@ASUS>

Interesting term "Singularity"
Philosophically "ONE" [arrow] MANY

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Becky and Kirk" <bandk at chorus.net>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 10:20 AM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!

> Yes---it would like the PRIME MOVER indeed. This singular force had to 
> include ALL OF THE INFORMATION, in the beginning BEFORE the Big Bang, into 
> the Big Bang, that the Universe would ever need to accomplish all of the 
> wondrous things that occur in our Universe to this day.
>
> This has been called----"The big download" of information. Seems to me 
> that something had to download or put all of this information into the 
> singularity that became the Big Bang BEFORE it exploded into the known 
> Universe. That seems pretty miraculous to me!
>
> Kirk......:-)
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jerry Flaherty" <grf2 at comcast.net>
> To: <cdtucson at cox.net>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Mark Ford" 
> <mark.ford at ssl.gb.com>; "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 9:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>
>
>>I have to agree. So too,
>> If the BB is the beginning WHO or if you prefer WHAT started IT?
>> Some would call that a PRIME MOVER. Maybe even, dare I venture, THE prime 
>> mover.
>> Jerry Flaherty
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: <cdtucson at cox.net>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:08 PM
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; "Mark Ford" 
>> <mark.ford at ssl.gb.com>; "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>>
>>> Eric, all,
>>> It seems to me a lot of people believe in the Big Bang theory. If you 
>>> are among them then you must believe that everything on this planet did 
>>> in fact come from space. Correct? I mean there was this huge explosion 
>>> if you will, that when the dust settled formed our wonderful  solar 
>>> system. So if everything on Earth came from this Big Bang then why is 
>>> there all of this debate about life? Do some of us think that everything 
>>> came from space except the dirt? No, I think many believe that 
>>> everything came from the Big Bang and everything means everything. Life 
>>> fits neatly into the category of everything. Doesn't it?? Therefore life 
>>> also came from the Big Bang. Seems logical to me!
>>> Taking it one step further. If life came to Earth Via the Big Bang then 
>>> wouldn't some of this life stuff have been launched to other planets as 
>>> well. Perhaps even launched to other  solar systems? If so then we just 
>>> need to find the planet that welcomes this life stuff. I think Mar's is 
>>> too cold. The moon seems like it should be okay but it lacks atmosphere 
>>> and maybe a few other things.
>>> So, based on the Big Bang spewing life across space , life must have 
>>> landed somewhere else. Either that or it is still in route and will land 
>>> eventually on some planet that likes it as much as we do.
>>> Or maybe God created life?
>>> Again, my 2 cents. Carl
>>> --
>>> Carl or Debbie Esparza
>>> IMCA 5829
>>> Meteoritemax
>>>
>>>
>>> ---- Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>> Again I feel compelled to respond to such Earth centered thinking. We
>>>> are NOT the center of everything. Our planet is merely a dot in 
>>>> billions
>>>> of trillions of other dots in this universe.
>>>>
>>>> "...Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
>>>> door..."
>>>>
>>>> ok... Not really.
>>>>
>>>> "...Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have
>>>> to have come from outer space..."
>>>>
>>>> Some people cannot except that life COULD come from out there.
>>>>
>>>> "...where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on
>>>> Earth?..."
>>>>
>>>> There is lots of evidence to shows life could start here. But that does
>>>> not mean ALL life is from here. This "Earth centered" idea is flawed in
>>>> every way.
>>>>
>>>> "...It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here,
>>>> where the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?..."
>>>>
>>>> Again, Earth centered and ultimately wrong. This is not to say that 
>>>> life
>>>> that is present today on this planet could not have started on this
>>>> planet. Just because someone says that meteorites might have seeded
>>>> Earth, does not mean that ALL life was seeded from elsewhere. It's
>>>> flawed thinking because it leaves out the fact that SOME life could 
>>>> have
>>>> come from elsewhere. Just because someone says that rocks from space
>>>> could have brought life to our planet does not mean it is all
>>>> encompassing or empirical at all because there is evidence.
>>>>
>>>> I believe the Panspermia theory may be flawed (or peoples understanding
>>>> of Panspermia anyway) if they state that all life came from elsewhere
>>>> simply because if all life came from elsewhere then where did
>>>> "elsewhere" get the life to begin with?
>>>>
>>>> It had to come into existence from somewhere. If you don't believe in
>>>> evolution, then you believe in God, if you believe in God you most
>>>> likely don't believe in evolution. But I ask you why you can't believe
>>>> in both? (rhetorical, please do not answer this as it's NOT related to
>>>> meteorites ;)) This is NOT the topic I want to get into so I will
>>>> continue on...
>>>>
>>>> So you believe the Earth is the Goldilocks planet. Given that you most
>>>> likely also believe there is a good chance that there is another system
>>>> out there with a star similar to our Sun and quite possibly another
>>>> planet similar to ours that lies within what science calls the 
>>>> habitable
>>>> zone. Or is that too big of a stretch?
>>>>
>>>> Let's just say for the sake of argument there is another planet out
>>>> there nearby (relative to our system) that is in this zone and that
>>>> there is life on that planet. One can safely assume that large
>>>> asteroidal and cometary debris has at some time in the past slammed 
>>>> into
>>>> that planet. Perhaps even while life existed on it, thereby ejecting
>>>> billions of tons of debris into space over time. Some of that debris
>>>> would no doubt carry some form of microbial life that lives deep inside
>>>> the soil and rock. (perhaps even insects) Protected from the harshness
>>>> of the vacuum and cold of space.
>>>>
>>>> Now we know that if there's a Goldilocks planet that there are most
>>>> likely other planets in that system as well, perhaps more, perhaps less
>>>> than our system, but our knowledge of solar system formation is one 
>>>> that
>>>> allows us to make an educated guess. The point is most of the debris
>>>> would be sucked into the orbits and eventually the atmospheres of other
>>>> planetary and larger bodies in that system. But. Not all of it would 
>>>> be.
>>>> Would it? Some of it would escape. Eventually...
>>>>
>>>> Let's also say for sake of argument the Gliese 581 star system is home
>>>> to our habitable planet. This system is 20 light years away. In other
>>>> words it  takes light 20 years to travel to Earth. (speed of light is
>>>> 186,000 miles per second). A light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles in
>>>> distance. Remember that number...
>>>>
>>>> The question now is, how fast will the debris that is able to escape 
>>>> the
>>>> system be traveling? Well, I wasn't sure and did a little digging and
>>>> found this page
>>>> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2001-03/985224290.As.r.html which
>>>> explains the speed of an orbiting asteroid to be at 47000 mph. Since I
>>>> wanted to verify, I check around and found this too:
>>>> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=14258 which puts the speed
>>>> of an orbiting asteroid at 67,000 mph. A difference of 20,000 mph. A 
>>>> BIG
>>>> difference!
>>>>
>>>> Still not convinced of the accuracy of the speed, I wanted to know a
>>>> more exact number I could apply to the debris to calculate the time it
>>>> would take for it to reach Earth. Then I found this:
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed
>>>>
>>>> OK, I'm not a mathematician so those formulas and calculations are not
>>>> something I can use just yet. How fast does debris travel out of the
>>>> atmosphere, and how fast does it travel through the system in it's
>>>> orbit? Will it speed up? A few more searches and yes, it does speed up.
>>>> If the Voyager space probes speed up over time so too should the ejecta
>>>> from the planet. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1997/PatricePean.shtml
>>>>
>>>> Speed of Voyager: 17.374 km/s = 38,864.5 mile/hour (mph)
>>>> Orbital Speed of Apophis: 30.728 km/s = 68,736.5 mile/hour (mph)
>>>>
>>>> A number I could work with is a happy medium between the fastest 
>>>> orbital
>>>> speed of an asteroid, and the fastest speed of the Voyager spacecrafts.
>>>>
>>>> 38,864.5 + 68,736.5 = 107,601 MPH / 2 = 53,800.5 MPH average
>>>>
>>>> If the distance of 1 light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles and light
>>>> traveling from Gliese 581 takes 20 years to reach us then that star
>>>> system is 117,313,920,000,000 miles away.
>>>>
>>>> It would take a piece if debris traveling at 53,800.5 MPH approximately
>>>> 2,180,535,868 hours to make the trip. There are 8760 hours in a Julian
>>>> year. Divide that into our total travel time and that gives you 248,919
>>>> years. (someone please check my math. I'm pretty sure this is right)
>>>>
>>>> So to travel from Gliese 581 to Earth the debris would take about a
>>>> quarter million years to reach Earth. Considering the Earth is 4.6
>>>> Billion years old, the 250K year interval is nothing in astronomical 
>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>> Scientists today believe that extremophiles are very capable of living
>>>> in a dormant state for millions of years. If the pieces of debris that
>>>> come from a habitable planet in the Gliese 581 system would that life
>>>> then be revived once it impacts our planet in the form of a meteorite?
>>>>
>>>> I ask anyone, scientist or not to give me a good valid argument against
>>>> this theory other than the lack of probability that Gliese 581 is a 
>>>> life
>>>> bearing system. The point is it doesn't have to be our nearest solar
>>>> system neighbor. It could be any solar system that has existed within
>>>> the the 4.6 billion years the Earth has been here that is within that
>>>> space time range.
>>>>
>>>> There are over 100 billion stars in our Milky Way alone. Do you really
>>>> believe that NONE of them support life but ours?
>>>>
>>>> If I'm totally wrong or mistaken in my logic or math or anything else
>>>> please by all means tell me...
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Eric Wichman
>>>> www.meteoritesusa.com
>>>> www.meteoriteblog.com
>>>> www.spacifieds.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mark Ford wrote:
>>>> > There is much documented evidence of microbes in the upper atmosphere
>>>> > region, I think the debatable bit though is the suggestion that life
>>>> > must have come from somewhere other than from Earth, - This is simply
>>>> > not the case. I have seen no evidence to suggest anything other than
>>>> > that every single life form we have ever found originated right here 
>>>> > on
>>>> > earth.
>>>> >
>>>> > Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have 
>>>> > to
>>>> > have come from outer space, they are entitled to hold that view, but
>>>> > where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on 
>>>> > Earth?
>>>> > It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here, 
>>>> > where
>>>> > the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?
>>>> >
>>>> > Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
>>>> > door..
>>>> >
>>>> > Transfer of life from planet to planet via meteorites is more
>>>> > interesting, though even here we have the dilemma that just because
>>>> > highly evolved extreemophiles can potentially survive under 
>>>> > controlled
>>>> > test conditions doesn't automatically mean they actually have, there 
>>>> > are
>>>> > many other complex variables to consider, many of which are still 
>>>> > poorly
>>>> > understood.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Mark
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>> > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of 
>>>> > Becky
>>>> > and Kirk
>>>> > Sent: 17 September 2009 01:13
>>>> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>>>> >
>>>> > Phil,
>>>> >     How is this "junk" science????
>>>> >               Kirk...........
>>>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> > From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
>>>> > To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:11 AM
>>>> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> G'day, Konnichiwa, Aloha, Top 'o the morning to ya!:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Microbes from outer space living in the upper atmosphere and 
>>>> >> bacteria
>>>> >> living for millions of years! If I only had more time to read junk
>>>> >> science!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Phil Whitmer
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Hi listees,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Some interesting reading...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey
>>>> >> through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 
>>>> >> million
>>>> >> spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or
>>>> >> simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in 
>>>> >> diameter.
>>>> >> Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million 
>>>> >> survived
>>>> >> and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting
>>>> >>
>>>> > that
>>>> >
>>>> >> even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one
>>>> >>
>>>> > planet
>>>> >
>>>> >> to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a
>>>> >>
>>>> > rock
>>>> >
>>>> >> a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of
>>>> >>
>>>> > years...."
>>>> >
>>>> >> Still don't believe?
>>>> >> ______________________________________________
>>>> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > ______________________________________________
>>>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>> >
>>>> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
>>>> >
>>>> > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you 
>>>> > are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email 
>>>> > info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or 
>>>> > attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any 
>>>> > other person.
>>>> >
>>>> > GENERAL STATEMENT:
>>>> >
>>>> > Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and 
>>>> > communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective 
>>>> > operation of the system and for other lawful purposes.
>>>> >
>>>> > Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 
>>>> > 0DP. Company No 1800317
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ______________________________________________
>>>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
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> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Fri Sep 18 11:31:28 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:31:28 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
In-Reply-To: <29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49724C5C@gamma.ssl.atw>
References: <8EE79765E021471E8A039DE7F3318DFD@ET>	<0C025FABBB684F4DBE4E5AC52BFDA973@owner55652f88b>	<29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49724C39@gamma.ssl.atw>	<4AB25340.6060503@meteoritesusa.com>
	<29A9DB45B84970458190D7D39BD42C49724C5C@gamma.ssl.atw>
Message-ID: <4AB3A7D0.4050403@meteoritesusa.com>

Mark,

Sorry... I was not really directly trying to refute you personally, only 
what was said as I understood it from the way it was written. I wasn't 
stating emphatically that you were personally wrong.. Maybe I 
misunderstood what you were saying... I think we were both saying the 
same thing but in different ways...

It doesn't change my opinion or what I wrote... ;)

Life has probably started all over the universe in hundreds of millions 
of systems in millions of galaxies across the universe.

We're just a small micro-dot, in a over 100 billion star-dots in 1 
galaxy. There are millions of galaxies! Millions times billions of stars 
is more numbers than I can possibly count.

If we're here in one tiny section of our galaxy what other life in the 
Milky Way?

We'll probably never know exactly when the universe was born, but we can 
know when our planet was born, and that tells us that if it happened 
here, it can happen elsewhere. That is an empirical fact!

We are the aliens we seek.

Regards,
Eric


Mark Ford wrote:
> I did not say all life in the universe is from Earth, read my posts
> again!!
>
> I said the life we find on Earth originated from Earth that's all. 
>
> As I said there is every possibility life has started else where too.
>
> We are not the centre of the universe! I never said we are, please don't
> misquote me.
>
> Best
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Meteorites USA [mailto:eric at meteoritesusa.com] 
> Sent: 17 September 2009 16:18
> To: Mark Ford; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> Again I feel compelled to respond to such Earth centered thinking. We 
> are NOT the center of everything. Our planet is merely a dot in billions
>
> of trillions of other dots in this universe.
>
> "...Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back 
> door..."
>
> ok... Not really.
>
> "...Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have 
> to have come from outer space..."
>
> Some people cannot except that life COULD come from out there.
>
> "...where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on 
> Earth?..."
>
> There is lots of evidence to shows life could start here. But that does 
> not mean ALL life is from here. This "Earth centered" idea is flawed in 
> every way.
>
> "...It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here, 
> where the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal?..."
>
> Again, Earth centered and ultimately wrong. This is not to say that life
>
> that is present today on this planet could not have started on this 
> planet. Just because someone says that meteorites might have seeded 
> Earth, does not mean that ALL life was seeded from elsewhere. It's 
> flawed thinking because it leaves out the fact that SOME life could have
>
> come from elsewhere. Just because someone says that rocks from space 
> could have brought life to our planet does not mean it is all 
> encompassing or empirical at all because there is evidence.
>
> I believe the Panspermia theory may be flawed (or peoples understanding 
> of Panspermia anyway) if they state that all life came from elsewhere 
> simply because if all life came from elsewhere then where did 
> "elsewhere" get the life to begin with?
>
> It had to come into existence from somewhere. If you don't believe in 
> evolution, then you believe in God, if you believe in God you most 
> likely don't believe in evolution. But I ask you why you can't believe 
> in both? (rhetorical, please do not answer this as it's NOT related to 
> meteorites ;)) This is NOT the topic I want to get into so I will 
> continue on...
>
> So you believe the Earth is the Goldilocks planet. Given that you most 
> likely also believe there is a good chance that there is another system 
> out there with a star similar to our Sun and quite possibly another 
> planet similar to ours that lies within what science calls the habitable
>
> zone. Or is that too big of a stretch?
>
> Let's just say for the sake of argument there is another planet out 
> there nearby (relative to our system) that is in this zone and that 
> there is life on that planet. One can safely assume that large 
> asteroidal and cometary debris has at some time in the past slammed into
>
> that planet. Perhaps even while life existed on it, thereby ejecting 
> billions of tons of debris into space over time. Some of that debris 
> would no doubt carry some form of microbial life that lives deep inside 
> the soil and rock. (perhaps even insects) Protected from the harshness 
> of the vacuum and cold of space.
>
> Now we know that if there's a Goldilocks planet that there are most 
> likely other planets in that system as well, perhaps more, perhaps less 
> than our system, but our knowledge of solar system formation is one that
>
> allows us to make an educated guess. The point is most of the debris 
> would be sucked into the orbits and eventually the atmospheres of other 
> planetary and larger bodies in that system. But. Not all of it would be.
>
> Would it? Some of it would escape. Eventually...
>
> Let's also say for sake of argument the Gliese 581 star system is home 
> to our habitable planet. This system is 20 light years away. In other 
> words it  takes light 20 years to travel to Earth. (speed of light is 
> 186,000 miles per second). A light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles in 
> distance. Remember that number...
>
> The question now is, how fast will the debris that is able to escape the
>
> system be traveling? Well, I wasn't sure and did a little digging and 
> found this page 
> http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2001-03/985224290.As.r.html which 
> explains the speed of an orbiting asteroid to be at 47000 mph. Since I 
> wanted to verify, I check around and found this too: 
> http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=14258 which puts the speed 
> of an orbiting asteroid at 67,000 mph. A difference of 20,000 mph. A BIG
>
> difference!
>
> Still not convinced of the accuracy of the speed, I wanted to know a 
> more exact number I could apply to the debris to calculate the time it 
> would take for it to reach Earth. Then I found this: 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed
>
> OK, I'm not a mathematician so those formulas and calculations are not 
> something I can use just yet. How fast does debris travel out of the 
> atmosphere, and how fast does it travel through the system in it's 
> orbit? Will it speed up? A few more searches and yes, it does speed up. 
> If the Voyager space probes speed up over time so too should the ejecta 
> from the planet. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/1997/PatricePean.shtml
>
> Speed of Voyager: 17.374 km/s = 38,864.5 mile/hour (mph)
> Orbital Speed of Apophis: 30.728 km/s = 68,736.5 mile/hour (mph)
>
> A number I could work with is a happy medium between the fastest orbital
>
> speed of an asteroid, and the fastest speed of the Voyager spacecrafts.
>
> 38,864.5 + 68,736.5 = 107,601 MPH / 2 = 53,800.5 MPH average
>
> If the distance of 1 light year is 5,865,696,000,000 miles and light 
> traveling from Gliese 581 takes 20 years to reach us then that star 
> system is 117,313,920,000,000 miles away.
>
> It would take a piece if debris traveling at 53,800.5 MPH approximately 
> 2,180,535,868 hours to make the trip. There are 8760 hours in a Julian 
> year. Divide that into our total travel time and that gives you 248,919 
> years. (someone please check my math. I'm pretty sure this is right)
>
> So to travel from Gliese 581 to Earth the debris would take about a 
> quarter million years to reach Earth. Considering the Earth is 4.6 
> Billion years old, the 250K year interval is nothing in astronomical
> time.
>
> Scientists today believe that extremophiles are very capable of living 
> in a dormant state for millions of years. If the pieces of debris that 
> come from a habitable planet in the Gliese 581 system would that life 
> then be revived once it impacts our planet in the form of a meteorite?
>
> I ask anyone, scientist or not to give me a good valid argument against 
> this theory other than the lack of probability that Gliese 581 is a life
>
> bearing system. The point is it doesn't have to be our nearest solar 
> system neighbor. It could be any solar system that has existed within 
> the the 4.6 billion years the Earth has been here that is within that 
> space time range.
>
> There are over 100 billion stars in our Milky Way alone. Do you really 
> believe that NONE of them support life but ours?
>
> If I'm totally wrong or mistaken in my logic or math or anything else 
> please by all means tell me...
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> www.meteoritesusa.com
> www.meteoriteblog.com
> www.spacifieds.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark Ford wrote:
>   
>> There is much documented evidence of microbes in the upper atmosphere
>> region, I think the debatable bit though is the suggestion that life
>> must have come from somewhere other than from Earth, - This is simply
>> not the case. I have seen no evidence to suggest anything other than
>> that every single life form we have ever found originated right here
>>     
> on
>   
>> earth. 
>>
>> Some people just cannot accept that life doesn't automatically have to
>> have come from outer space, they are entitled to hold that view, but
>> where is the evidence to show that life cannot possibly start on
>>     
> Earth?
>   
>> It has to start somewhere, and what better place than right here,
>>     
> where
>   
>> the conditions are warm/wet/cold/ideal? 
>>
>> Sorry but imho panspermia is nothing more than religion by the back
>> door..
>>
>> Transfer of life from planet to planet via meteorites is more
>> interesting, though even here we have the dilemma that just because
>> highly evolved extreemophiles can potentially survive under controlled
>> test conditions doesn't automatically mean they actually have, there
>>     
> are
>   
>> many other complex variables to consider, many of which are still
>>     
> poorly
>   
>> understood. 
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of
>>     
> Becky
>   
>> and Kirk
>> Sent: 17 September 2009 01:13
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>>
>> Phil,
>>     How is this "junk" science????
>>               Kirk...........
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:11 AM
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
>>> G'day, Konnichiwa, Aloha, Top 'o the morning to ya!:
>>>
>>>
>>> Microbes from outer space living in the upper atmosphere and bacteria
>>>       
>
>   
>>> living for millions of years! If I only had more time to read junk 
>>> science!
>>>
>>> Phil Whitmer
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi listees,
>>>
>>> Some interesting reading...
>>>
>>> "...To test if meteorites might protect bacteria on their journey
>>> through space, Horneck and her colleagues mixed samples of 50 million
>>> spores with particles of clay, red sandstone, Martian meteorite, or
>>> simulated Martian soil and made small lumps a centimeter in diameter.
>>> Between 10,000 and 100,000 spores of the original 50 million survived
>>> and when mixed with red sandstone, nearly all survived, suggesting
>>>     
>>>       
>> that
>>   
>>     
>>> even meteorites a centimeter in diameter can carry life from one
>>>     
>>>       
>> planet
>>   
>>     
>>> to another, if they completed the journey within a few years. In a
>>>     
>>>       
>> rock
>>   
>>     
>>> a meter across, bacteria could probably survive for millions of
>>>     
>>>       
>> years...."
>>   
>>     
>>> Still don't believe?
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
>>>     
>>>       
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 
>>
>> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you
>>     
> are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com.
> You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose
> nor disclose their contents to any other person. 
>   
>> GENERAL STATEMENT:
>>
>> Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and
>>     
> communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective
> operation of the system and for other lawful purposes.
>   
>> Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15
>>     
> 0DP. Company No 1800317
>   
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
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>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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>>   
>>     
>
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: 
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email info at ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. 
>
> GENERAL STATEMENT:
>
> Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes.
>
> Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317
>
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>
>   



From cynapse at charter.net  Fri Sep 18 12:44:49 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:44:49 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Where all the iron and nickle came from...?
In-Reply-To: <BLU137-W2777B03F53A2AE719537A7D6E00@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU137-W2777B03F53A2AE719537A7D6E00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <87e7b5lbnonolf48ama95echcv6akokmq0@4ax.com>

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 04:05:50 -0700, you wrote:

>
>Hello list, 
>These metallic elements are so common in stony meteorites - as we know... now, don't they originally form at the cores of stars, and the traces of these metals that contained during the earliest days of the formation of our Solar System, are the remnants of nearby dead stars that exploded millions or billions of years before the Solar System started to emerge? 
>

Everything heavier than hydrogen, helium (and a little bit of Lithium and
Beryllium) was cooked up in stars.


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Fri Sep 18 12:12:57 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 09:12:57 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Montana Fireball
Message-ID: <4AB3B189.80503@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi List,

9:22 p.m. last night? - Someone saw what was described as a ?big 
fireball? in the sky on the north side of Hash Mountain. Although the 
reporting party believed it to be an aircraft, all planes in the area 
were fully accounted for and all was well.

http://www.flatheadbeacon.com/articles/article/car_versus_moose_and_a_mysterious_fireball/13066/

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Fri Sep 18 12:15:52 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:15:52 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Where all the iron and nickle came from...?
References: <BLU137-W2777B03F53A2AE719537A7D6E00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <D01CC7DE72684AB1A0ED7771D7F7E842@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Mel, List,

    The recipe for a universe is simple. Start with
a batch of hot particles. Let them cool until they
combine into hydrogen atoms. As they cool, some
will fuse and make some helium.

    Now you have a universe of 75% hydrogen and
25% helium gas. Boring. Let the gas gather by gravity
into stars everywhere. More interesting. The big stars
burn fast and combine atoms bigger and bigger until
you have all the atoms up to iron, in just a few million
years.

    Then the big ones explode, creating all the elements
heavier than iron and spreading them as gas and dust
in clouds through the universe in a few billion years.
The gas and dust clump by gravity into new stars, the
biggest of which will explode in a few million years all
over again. (Some stars never learn).

    Before you know it, there's a mix of all elements
everywhere, making new stars, exploding big stars
right away. The small stars will live longer than the
universe. The medium stars will live 5 to 15 billion
years (like ours).

    We look out the window and it's still going on. We
see the remnants of the exploded stars. We see the
new stars forming. We see the young stars, the
middle-aged stars, the old stars.

    The young universe had very little heavier elements.
They increase as the universe ages. You can actually
make a good rough calculation of the age of a universe
by the amount of heavier elements you find. As the
universe gets older, the amount of heavier elements
increases.

    Iron is a particularly important element in this cycle.
It's when a star works its way up to burning iron that
it fails, collapses and goes boom! Iron is the heaviest
element that can be cooked slowly in a star; all the
heavier ones are created in the flash of the explosion.

    You see, it takes more energy to fuse iron than you
get from the fusion. Instead of heating the star, it cools
it. When the star cools, it suddenly collapses. The  big
whack that results is a supernova, when all the other
elements are cooked up in an instant.

    Some (not all) believe that our star formed in a
neighborhood where there had been one or more recent
supernovae that enriched the raw materials in our star's
mix of gas and dust. It's an argument, but the evidence
seems to tilting in that direction. We keep finding traces
of isotopes from a recipe of recent exploding stars.

    So, what do you get?  Five billion years later, we
get songs written especially for Woodstock that start:
"We are stardust..."


Sterling K. Webb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Melanie Matthews" <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:05 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Where all the iron and nickle came from...?


>
> Hello list,
> These metallic elements are so common in stony meteorites - as we 
> know... now, don't they originally form at the cores of stars, and the 
> traces of these metals that contained during the earliest days of the 
> formation of our Solar System, are the remnants of nearby dead stars 
> that exploded millions or billions of years before the Solar System 
> started to emerge?
>
> Regards
> - Mel
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> New: Messenger sign-in on the MSN homepage
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677403
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From grf2 at comcast.net  Fri Sep 18 12:38:06 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:38:06 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Where all the iron and nickle came from...?
References: <BLU137-W2777B03F53A2AE719537A7D6E00@phx.gbl>
	<D01CC7DE72684AB1A0ED7771D7F7E842@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <294EB2D3B0A047A5805FF6852895AF77@ASUS>

I love those lyrics I am those lyrics we are those lyrics
Scientist and poet are these terms self contradictory?
I love science [what little I can understand of it]
yet deep in my "soul" I yearn to "know" more
The reality is overwhelming to my feeble mind
So I dabble in the "arts" to sooth a humbled heart
We are star dust
Yippee what a claim to fame
We are born
Deep in the heart of the stars
You got to love it!
Our mementos filed neatly and labeled for posterity
Bring us closer to that  crux
Bring us to a List of like minded
Jerry Flaherty

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 12:15 PM
To: "Melanie Matthews" <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Where all the iron and nickle came from...?

> Hi, Mel, List,
>
>    The recipe for a universe is simple. Start with
> a batch of hot particles. Let them cool until they
> combine into hydrogen atoms. As they cool, some
> will fuse and make some helium.
>
>    Now you have a universe of 75% hydrogen and
> 25% helium gas. Boring. Let the gas gather by gravity
> into stars everywhere. More interesting. The big stars
> burn fast and combine atoms bigger and bigger until
> you have all the atoms up to iron, in just a few million
> years.
>
>    Then the big ones explode, creating all the elements
> heavier than iron and spreading them as gas and dust
> in clouds through the universe in a few billion years.
> The gas and dust clump by gravity into new stars, the
> biggest of which will explode in a few million years all
> over again. (Some stars never learn).
>
>    Before you know it, there's a mix of all elements
> everywhere, making new stars, exploding big stars
> right away. The small stars will live longer than the
> universe. The medium stars will live 5 to 15 billion
> years (like ours).
>
>    We look out the window and it's still going on. We
> see the remnants of the exploded stars. We see the
> new stars forming. We see the young stars, the
> middle-aged stars, the old stars.
>
>    The young universe had very little heavier elements.
> They increase as the universe ages. You can actually
> make a good rough calculation of the age of a universe
> by the amount of heavier elements you find. As the
> universe gets older, the amount of heavier elements
> increases.
>
>    Iron is a particularly important element in this cycle.
> It's when a star works its way up to burning iron that
> it fails, collapses and goes boom! Iron is the heaviest
> element that can be cooked slowly in a star; all the
> heavier ones are created in the flash of the explosion.
>
>    You see, it takes more energy to fuse iron than you
> get from the fusion. Instead of heating the star, it cools
> it. When the star cools, it suddenly collapses. The  big
> whack that results is a supernova, when all the other
> elements are cooked up in an instant.
>
>    Some (not all) believe that our star formed in a
> neighborhood where there had been one or more recent
> supernovae that enriched the raw materials in our star's
> mix of gas and dust. It's an argument, but the evidence
> seems to tilting in that direction. We keep finding traces
> of isotopes from a recipe of recent exploding stars.
>
>    So, what do you get?  Five billion years later, we
> get songs written especially for Woodstock that start:
> "We are stardust..."
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Melanie Matthews" <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 6:05 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Where all the iron and nickle came from...?
>
>
>>
>> Hello list,
>> These metallic elements are so common in stony meteorites - as we know... 
>> now, don't they originally form at the cores of stars, and the traces of 
>> these metals that contained during the earliest days of the formation of 
>> our Solar System, are the remnants of nearby dead stars that exploded 
>> millions or billions of years before the Solar System started to emerge?
>>
>> Regards
>> - Mel
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> New: Messenger sign-in on the MSN homepage
>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677403
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From cynapse at charter.net  Fri Sep 18 13:51:04 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:51:04 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
In-Reply-To: <BLU137-W2777B03F53A2AE719537A7D6E00@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU137-W2777B03F53A2AE719537A7D6E00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <43i7b5d7ifjdp9iupd1jlrd1o62hkdjp5r@4ax.com>

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/rare-snapshot-of-solar-systems-dawn-20090918-fvcl.html

Rare snapshot of solar system's dawn
DEBORAH SMITH SCIENCE EDITOR
September 19, 2009

CAMERAS set up in outback Australia to track fireballs across the night sky have
led scientists to a rare meteorite formed at the dawn of the solar system.

The fiery streak it made on descent allowed them not only to pinpoint where it
would fall on the vast Nullarbor Plain, but also work out where it had come
from.

Three fragments of the meteorite, the biggest the size of a cricket ball, were
found within 100 metres of the predicted landing site, Alex Bevan, head of earth
and planetary science at the Western Australian Museum, said. ''That is
incredible accuracy.''

Dr Bevan said the Nullarbor desert was chosen for a new fireball observatory
because of its pale limestone colour. ''Most meteorites are dark so they
contrast well with the local rock.''

Dubbed Bunburra Rockhole after a nearby landmark, the meteorite was found on the
first day of searching by the international team, which includes researchers
from the Perth museum and CSIRO.

Meteorites are among the most studied rocks on Earth, the team leader, Philip
Bland, of the Imperial College in London, said. ''But it's really rare for us to
be able to tell where they came from.''

Based on its unusual basalt composition and trajectory, the researchers believe
the Nullarbor meteorite was once part of an asteroid in the innermost side of
the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, until a collision chipped it off
millions of years ago.

It then moved into an orbit around the sun similar to that of Earth, before
plummeting to the ground on July 20, 2007.

Weighing about 22 kilograms when it began its fiery descent at an altitude of 60
kilometres, only fragments of less than 200 grams were left when it hit.

''We're cautiously optimistic that this find could be the first of many, and if
that happens, each find may give us more clues about how the solar system
began,'' Dr Bland, whose team's study was published yesterday in the journal
Science, said.

Asteroids in the innermost belt are thought to have formed near the sun and
consist of the same material from which the earth was made.

The fireball observatory consists of a network of four cameras that take a
single time-lapse picture every night to track any shooting stars, and complex
mathematics is required to determine a meteorite's original orbit.



From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Fri Sep 18 12:53:01 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:53:01 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
In-Reply-To: <43i7b5d7ifjdp9iupd1jlrd1o62hkdjp5r@4ax.com>
References: <BLU137-W2777B03F53A2AE719537A7D6E00@phx.gbl><43i7b5d7ifjdp9iupd1jlrd1o62hkdjp5r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <1952813530-1253292910-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1351959397-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Looks like a nice eucrite. Similar to Camel Donga.
Matt
----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA

-----Original Message-----
From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>

Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:51:04 
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall


http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/rare-snapshot-of-solar-systems-dawn-20090918-fvcl.html

Rare snapshot of solar system's dawn
DEBORAH SMITH SCIENCE EDITOR
September 19, 2009

CAMERAS set up in outback Australia to track fireballs across the night sky have
led scientists to a rare meteorite formed at the dawn of the solar system.

The fiery streak it made on descent allowed them not only to pinpoint where it
would fall on the vast Nullarbor Plain, but also work out where it had come
from.

Three fragments of the meteorite, the biggest the size of a cricket ball, were
found within 100 metres of the predicted landing site, Alex Bevan, head of earth
and planetary science at the Western Australian Museum, said. ''That is
incredible accuracy.''

Dr Bevan said the Nullarbor desert was chosen for a new fireball observatory
because of its pale limestone colour. ''Most meteorites are dark so they
contrast well with the local rock.''

Dubbed Bunburra Rockhole after a nearby landmark, the meteorite was found on the
first day of searching by the international team, which includes researchers
from the Perth museum and CSIRO.

Meteorites are among the most studied rocks on Earth, the team leader, Philip
Bland, of the Imperial College in London, said. ''But it's really rare for us to
be able to tell where they came from.''

Based on its unusual basalt composition and trajectory, the researchers believe
the Nullarbor meteorite was once part of an asteroid in the innermost side of
the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, until a collision chipped it off
millions of years ago.

It then moved into an orbit around the sun similar to that of Earth, before
plummeting to the ground on July 20, 2007.

Weighing about 22 kilograms when it began its fiery descent at an altitude of 60
kilometres, only fragments of less than 200 grams were left when it hit.

''We're cautiously optimistic that this find could be the first of many, and if
that happens, each find may give us more clues about how the solar system
began,'' Dr Bland, whose team's study was published yesterday in the journal
Science, said.

Asteroids in the innermost belt are thought to have formed near the sun and
consist of the same material from which the earth was made.

The fireball observatory consists of a network of four cameras that take a
single time-lapse picture every night to track any shooting stars, and complex
mathematics is required to determine a meteorite's original orbit.

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From freequarks at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 13:58:55 2009
From: freequarks at gmail.com (Dark Matter)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:58:55 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Montana Fireball
In-Reply-To: <4AB3B189.80503@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4AB3B189.80503@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <822da19a0909181058i30d648ap4d62c29ab126f88a@mail.gmail.com>

Hmmm

9:22 p.m. a fireball sighted.

11:04 p.m. A dead deer obstructed Highway 93.

11:50 p.m. A dead deer obstructed Foys Canyon Road.

A coincidence? I think not.

But seriously. This is all an hour or two from my house. I'll keep an
eye on the news.

BYW: a police blotter full of bear, moose, deer and dopes is just
another grand day here under The Big Sky.

-Martin




On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> 9:22 p.m. last night? - Someone saw what was described as a ?big fireball?
> in the sky on the north side of Hash Mountain. Although the reporting party
> believed it to be an aircraft, all planes in the area were fully accounted
> for and all was well.
>
> http://www.flatheadbeacon.com/articles/article/car_versus_moose_and_a_mysterious_fireball/13066/
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From grf2 at comcast.net  Fri Sep 18 15:12:36 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:12:36 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
References: <BLU137-W2777B03F53A2AE719537A7D6E00@phx.gbl>
	<43i7b5d7ifjdp9iupd1jlrd1o62hkdjp5r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <67C05E967D8E499D9C1BFB0614D30842@ASUS>

FAR OUT!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Darren Garrison" <cynapse at charter.net>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 1:51 PM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall

> http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/rare-snapshot-of-solar-systems-dawn-20090918-fvcl.html
>
> Rare snapshot of solar system's dawn
> DEBORAH SMITH SCIENCE EDITOR
> September 19, 2009
>
> CAMERAS set up in outback Australia to track fireballs across the night 
> sky have
> led scientists to a rare meteorite formed at the dawn of the solar system.
>
> The fiery streak it made on descent allowed them not only to pinpoint 
> where it
> would fall on the vast Nullarbor Plain, but also work out where it had 
> come
> from.
>
> Three fragments of the meteorite, the biggest the size of a cricket ball, 
> were
> found within 100 metres of the predicted landing site, Alex Bevan, head of 
> earth
> and planetary science at the Western Australian Museum, said. ''That is
> incredible accuracy.''
>
> Dr Bevan said the Nullarbor desert was chosen for a new fireball 
> observatory
> because of its pale limestone colour. ''Most meteorites are dark so they
> contrast well with the local rock.''
>
> Dubbed Bunburra Rockhole after a nearby landmark, the meteorite was found 
> on the
> first day of searching by the international team, which includes 
> researchers
> from the Perth museum and CSIRO.
>
> Meteorites are among the most studied rocks on Earth, the team leader, 
> Philip
> Bland, of the Imperial College in London, said. ''But it's really rare for 
> us to
> be able to tell where they came from.''
>
> Based on its unusual basalt composition and trajectory, the researchers 
> believe
> the Nullarbor meteorite was once part of an asteroid in the innermost side 
> of
> the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, until a collision chipped it 
> off
> millions of years ago.
>
> It then moved into an orbit around the sun similar to that of Earth, 
> before
> plummeting to the ground on July 20, 2007.
>
> Weighing about 22 kilograms when it began its fiery descent at an altitude 
> of 60
> kilometres, only fragments of less than 200 grams were left when it hit.
>
> ''We're cautiously optimistic that this find could be the first of many, 
> and if
> that happens, each find may give us more clues about how the solar system
> began,'' Dr Bland, whose team's study was published yesterday in the 
> journal
> Science, said.
>
> Asteroids in the innermost belt are thought to have formed near the sun 
> and
> consist of the same material from which the earth was made.
>
> The fireball observatory consists of a network of four cameras that take a
> single time-lapse picture every night to track any shooting stars, and 
> complex
> mathematics is required to determine a meteorite's original orbit.
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 18 17:51:46 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 14:51:46 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
Message-ID: <COL108-W233F8934AA66594CCD44099BE00@phx.gbl>


Hello everyone,

I received this email concerning what I had proposed yesterday of Strange Rock pics for newbies. This post did not appear on this list (possibly rich texting?) I am forwarding this with the poster's permission. I still think this is a great educational idea.

Carl

PS. The last time I looked, Skyrock is down again.



> Hello all!
>
> Too late! The french invented it already:
>
> http://meteorites.superforum.fr/forum.htm
> See: Jeux M?t?oritique/ Nommez cette m?t?orite
>       Jeux M?t?oritique/ Nommez ce crat?re d'impact
>
> Now, there are several solutions:
>
> 1- Learn French :P
>
> 2- Use the section "Meteorite and related discussions in English" in
> http://meteorites.superforum.fr/forum.htm
>
> 3- Ask the Skyrock ( http://illinoismeteorites.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl
> ) administrators to create a similar section.
>
> Otherwise it is a great idea and I must confess I am addicted to these
> two games in the french forum.
>
> Saludos
>
> Sanscelerien
>
> Carl 's wrote:
>> Me too! As Mr Graham said, I should have looked at the file name for clues. Instead I may have burnt out some brain cells trying to remember where I've seen that stone, or one like it, before.
>>
>> I think George is on to something. Why not from time to time, someone post a picture of a meteorite and we newbies try to identify it. This could be a regular thread. It would also help if the person posting the pic change the file name, now that we've all wised up to that. The meteorite should have a distinctive look or feature to it, not some weathered uNWA that nobody can identify. How about it?
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> GeoZay wrote:
>>
>>> ...Thanks for the  education guys....

 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Bing?  brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place.   Try it now.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1

From meteorites at optushome.com.au  Fri Sep 18 18:21:33 2009
From: meteorites at optushome.com.au (Norbert & Heike Kammel)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:21:33 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
In-Reply-To: <1952813530-1253292910-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1351959397-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
References: <BLU137-W2777B03F53A2AE719537A7D6E00@phx.gbl><43i7b5d7ifjdp9iupd1jlrd1o62hkdjp5r@4ax.com>
	<1952813530-1253292910-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1351959397-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Message-ID: <4AB407ED.40409@optushome.com.au>

The fall actually happened in 2007, Meteoritical Bulletin:  MB 95 
<http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/docs/mb95.pdf> .
I heard of it in February this year.
The location  is between Mundrabilla and Cook 001. Coordinates are  31? 
21.0'S, 129? 11.4'E, that means 168.6 km east of Mundrabilla and 170.9 
km south west of cook 001.
Unfortunately no fragments have been available for collectors.

Cheers, and best regards from Down-Under,

Norbert Kammel
IMCA # 3420


Matt Morgan wrote:
> Looks like a nice eucrite. Similar to Camel Donga.
> Matt
> ----------------------
> Matt Morgan
> Mile High Meteorites
> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> P.O. Box 151293
> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
>
> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:51:04 
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
>
>
> http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/rare-snapshot-of-solar-systems-dawn-20090918-fvcl.html
>
> Rare snapshot of solar system's dawn
> DEBORAH SMITH SCIENCE EDITOR
> September 19, 2009
>
> CAMERAS set up in outback Australia to track fireballs across the night sky have
> led scientists to a rare meteorite formed at the dawn of the solar system.
>
> The fiery streak it made on descent allowed them not only to pinpoint where it
> would fall on the vast Nullarbor Plain, but also work out where it had come
> from.
>
> Three fragments of the meteorite, the biggest the size of a cricket ball, were
> found within 100 metres of the predicted landing site, Alex Bevan, head of earth
> and planetary science at the Western Australian Museum, said. ''That is
> incredible accuracy.''
>
> Dr Bevan said the Nullarbor desert was chosen for a new fireball observatory
> because of its pale limestone colour. ''Most meteorites are dark so they
> contrast well with the local rock.''
>
> Dubbed Bunburra Rockhole after a nearby landmark, the meteorite was found on the
> first day of searching by the international team, which includes researchers
> from the Perth museum and CSIRO.
>
> Meteorites are among the most studied rocks on Earth, the team leader, Philip
> Bland, of the Imperial College in London, said. ''But it's really rare for us to
> be able to tell where they came from.''
>
> Based on its unusual basalt composition and trajectory, the researchers believe
> the Nullarbor meteorite was once part of an asteroid in the innermost side of
> the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, until a collision chipped it off
> millions of years ago.
>
> It then moved into an orbit around the sun similar to that of Earth, before
> plummeting to the ground on July 20, 2007.
>
> Weighing about 22 kilograms when it began its fiery descent at an altitude of 60
> kilometres, only fragments of less than 200 grams were left when it hit.
>
> ''We're cautiously optimistic that this find could be the first of many, and if
> that happens, each find may give us more clues about how the solar system
> began,'' Dr Bland, whose team's study was published yesterday in the journal
> Science, said.
>
> Asteroids in the innermost belt are thought to have formed near the sun and
> consist of the same material from which the earth was made.
>
> The fireball observatory consists of a network of four cameras that take a
> single time-lapse picture every night to track any shooting stars, and complex
> mathematics is required to determine a meteorite's original orbit.
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>   



From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 18 18:29:03 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:29:03 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
Message-ID: <COL108-W39423CA44E2BCDAD98CA59BE00@phx.gbl>


Hi Matt,
?
I don't see a pic.

Carl
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009

From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 18:43:47 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:43:47 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
In-Reply-To: <COL108-W39423CA44E2BCDAD98CA59BE00@phx.gbl>
References: <COL108-W39423CA44E2BCDAD98CA59BE00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <93aaac890909181543qde0b82o8119e0e191403625@mail.gmail.com>

Hola,
Wha-la -
Photos:

http://www.eurekalert.org/multimedia/pub/16856.php

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,27574,26090814-2761,00.html

And I think it might be interesting to note this article, where Dr.
Philip Bland can be quoted as stating that Eucrites are not, in fact,
from Vesta.
Go figure.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/technology/6075299/rare-meteorite-found-in-outback/

Regards,
Jason

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Carl 's <carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> I don't see a pic.
>
> Carl
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits.
> http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From mlblood at cox.net  Fri Sep 18 19:54:20 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 16:54:20 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] S-A with Holes (AD)
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890909181543qde0b82o8119e0e191403625@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C6D96BBC.76F4%mlblood@cox.net>

As you know, I rarely advertise specimens on the list.
However, I have a couple of excellent ones and I need
Cash fast, so, here is a special offer:

For the last 2 years at the Tucson Show S-A of decent quality
have sold for $5/g. For tolerable quality they could be had for
$3/g. Oriented specimens or specimens with holes have been
astronomical from all the Russian dealers (the source of S-As).
 
I have a couple of outstanding specimens I am offering them
to any List Members for prices well under wholesale at the
Tucson Show ? good for the next 24 hrs:

73.2g S-A 
Oriented, Impact Craters, Stands up naturally, Large Hole.
An outstanding specimen priced below wholesale at $725
 
25.1g S-A 
Very Large Hole, 2 Impact Craters, Very Impressive Specimen $250
 
Both can be seen at:
 
http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/indextest.html

 




From mqfowler at mac.com  Fri Sep 18 20:39:29 2009
From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:39:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
Message-ID: <10079040-69D2-4888-8202-A7B2A2233EE0@mac.com>

> And I think it might be interesting to note this article, where Dr.
> Philip Bland can be quoted as stating that Eucrites are not, in fact,
> from Vesta.
> Go figure.
>
> http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/technology/6075299/rare-meteorite-found-in-outback/
>
> Regards,
> Jason

Jason,

You were a little bit hasty or misleading in your summarizing of Dr  
Bland.

see quote below from the article you cited.  (and to think that we are  
always criticizing reporters for getting it wrong!)

Mike Fowler
Chicago



""Dr Bland says most basalt meteorites, like the one found in the  
Nullarbor, originate from a large asteroid called Vesta but the  
Bunburra Rockhole meteorite is different.

"Our little guy can't be from Vesta, the composition is all wrong," he  
said.""




From mqfowler at mac.com  Fri Sep 18 20:47:51 2009
From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:47:51 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall-Non Vesta Eucrite
Message-ID: <9B8DD20B-6385-4A77-81A5-AF986E13AC40@mac.com>

Additional information from a Scientific American link that says that  
the meteorite is not from Vesta, because the orbit is wrong, and the  
oxygen isotopes are different.


http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=recovered-meteorite-points-to-an-un-2009-09-17


Mike Fowler
Chicago


> > And I think it might be interesting to note this article, where Dr.
> > Philip Bland can be quoted as stating that Eucrites are not, in  
> fact,
> > from Vesta.
>
> > Go figure.
>
> > http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/technology/6075299/rare-meteorite-found-in-outback/
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jason
>
>
> Jason,
>
> You were a little bit hasty or misleading in your summarizing of Dr
> Bland.
>
> see quote below from the article you cited. (and to think that we are
> always criticizing reporters for getting it wrong!)
>
> Mike Fowler
> Chicago
>
>
>
> ""Dr Bland says most basalt meteorites, like the one found in the
> Nullarbor, originate from a large asteroid called Vesta but the
> Bunburra Rockhole meteorite is different.
>
> "Our little guy can't be from Vesta, the composition is all wrong," he
> said.""


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 21:13:43 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:13:43 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
In-Reply-To: <10079040-69D2-4888-8202-A7B2A2233EE0@mac.com>
References: <10079040-69D2-4888-8202-A7B2A2233EE0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890909181813s13c30216u64d2d743333fd07d@mail.gmail.com>

And in case you didn't check the met-bull, the Bunburra Rockhole
meteorite has been classified as a typical Eucrite.
He stated that said meteorite is not from Vesta, but Eucrites are
widely accepted to have come from Vesta.
I suppose we don't have solid proof of that yet, but it is generally
accepted to be true, based on reflected light analyses.
Go figure.
Jason

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Michael Fowler <mqfowler at mac.com> wrote:
>> And I think it might be interesting to note this article, where Dr.
>> Philip Bland can be quoted as stating that Eucrites are not, in fact,
>> from Vesta.
>> Go figure.
>>
>>
>> http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/technology/6075299/rare-meteorite-found-in-outback/
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jason
>
> Jason,
>
> You were a little bit hasty or misleading in your summarizing of Dr Bland.
>
> see quote below from the article you cited. ?(and to think that we are
> always criticizing reporters for getting it wrong!)
>
> Mike Fowler
> Chicago
>
>
>
> ""Dr Bland says most basalt meteorites, like the one found in the Nullarbor,
> originate from a large asteroid called Vesta but the Bunburra Rockhole
> meteorite is different.
>
> "Our little guy can't be from Vesta, the composition is all wrong," he
> said.""
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Sep 18 21:16:02 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:16:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - September 16, 2009
Message-ID: <200909190116.n8J1G2Wp012892@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES
September 16, 2009

o McMurdo Crater
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014324_0955

o Sinuous Ridge in Argyre Planitia
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014272_1245

o Lines in the Sand
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014185_1095

o Sulfate Strata in Ius Chasma
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012625_1720

o Gullied Crater Wall
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012603_1300

 
All of the HiRISE images are archived here:

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/

Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is 
online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is 
managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division 
of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA 
Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed 
Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor 
and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the 
University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies 
Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument.



From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 21:17:10 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:17:10 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall-Non Vesta Eucrite
In-Reply-To: <9B8DD20B-6385-4A77-81A5-AF986E13AC40@mac.com>
References: <9B8DD20B-6385-4A77-81A5-AF986E13AC40@mac.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890909181817g6283e670g310f00a457ca7428@mail.gmail.com>

Well, oxygen isotopes are one thing, but orbital data would seem to be
a strange way to classify a meteorite to me; given the past four and a
half billion years of collisions, things have been far too 'messed up'
in the inner solar system for that to mean much; we have comets
present in stable orbits here in the innrer solar system, and it
doesn't mean that they formed there.
And most would also make a clear definition between chemical and
isotopic data, which he confuses (or the reference was a misquote) in
the article.
After all, Ibitira's a "Eucrite," but NWA 011's an ungrouped
achondrite.  It's the chemical difference that seems to make the
difference in nomenclature.
Jason

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Michael Fowler <mqfowler at mac.com> wrote:
> Additional information from a Scientific American link that says that the
> meteorite is not from Vesta, because the orbit is wrong, and the oxygen
> isotopes are different.
>
>
> http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=recovered-meteorite-points-to-an-un-2009-09-17
>
>
> Mike Fowler
> Chicago
>
>
>> > And I think it might be interesting to note this article, where Dr.
>> > Philip Bland can be quoted as stating that Eucrites are not, in fact,
>> > from Vesta.
>>
>> > Go figure.
>>
>> >
>> > http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/technology/6075299/rare-meteorite-found-in-outback/
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Jason
>>
>>
>> Jason,
>>
>> You were a little bit hasty or misleading in your summarizing of Dr
>> Bland.
>>
>> see quote below from the article you cited. (and to think that we are
>> always criticizing reporters for getting it wrong!)
>>
>> Mike Fowler
>> Chicago
>>
>>
>>
>> ""Dr Bland says most basalt meteorites, like the one found in the
>> Nullarbor, originate from a large asteroid called Vesta but the
>> Bunburra Rockhole meteorite is different.
>>
>> "Our little guy can't be from Vesta, the composition is all wrong," he
>> said.""
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Fri Sep 18 21:17:59 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:17:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: September 14-18, 2009
Message-ID: <200909190117.n8J1Hxgl013906@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
September 14-18, 2009

o Dunes (Released 14 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090914a

o Windstreaks (Released 15 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090915a

o Dust Devil Tracks (Released 16 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090916a

o Nirgal Vallis (Released 17 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090917a

o Vallis Marineris (Released 18 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090918a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 





From mqfowler at mac.com  Fri Sep 18 21:37:42 2009
From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:37:42 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
Message-ID: <6BE491B4-D647-4D6E-928B-5054DE1D199C@mac.com>

> And in case you didn't check the met-bull, the Bunburra Rockhole
> meteorite has been classified as a typical Eucrite.
> He stated that said meteorite is not from Vesta, but Eucrites are
> widely accepted to have come from Vesta.
> I suppose we don't have solid proof of that yet, but it is generally
> accepted to be true, based on reflected light analyses.
> Go figure.
> Jason

Hi Jason,

Sorry if I ruffled your feathers earlier.

I did check the met bulletin, and it is described as:  " meteorite is  
a basaltic eucrite monomict breccia "

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/index.php?code=48653

However I note that many meteorites are not correctly classified on  
their first appearance in the Met Bul,  including of course Ibitria,  
which is still listed as a Eucrite Monomict, even though we know it is  
not from Vesta,

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/index.php?sea=ibitira&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&valids=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&rect=&phot=&snew=0&pnt=no&code=11993

However back to, Bunburra Rockhole,  can someone comment or whether  
the mineral composition as stated in the met bul is consistent, or  
anomalous for a eucrite?

Mineral compositions: Pyroxene, Fs62.5Wo3.6 (Fe/Mn-31.1) with augite  
(Fs27.7Wo43.0) lamellae; plagioclase, An84.1 to An88.2.

Of course, the final word is probably the O isotope work, which Dr  
Bland says has already been done, although I couldn't find any  
additional reference.

Thanks,

Mike






From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 21:45:04 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:45:04 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
In-Reply-To: <6BE491B4-D647-4D6E-928B-5054DE1D199C@mac.com>
References: <6BE491B4-D647-4D6E-928B-5054DE1D199C@mac.com>
Message-ID: <93aaac890909181845y5e82cab0l74e5a7a35dd8606d@mail.gmail.com>

Good point; and seeing as such meteorites haven't been
reclassified/re-typed, it seems as though this brings up a very valid
flaw in the classification system of basaltic achondrites.  Perhaps
there are some scientists out there who can shed some light on why
meteorites such as these are called Eucrites when they are apparently
from different parent bodies.  I'd be curious of the general
scientific opinion of the current classification scheme; is it
adequate or should there be more, if not classes, at least meteorites
deemed 'ungrouped.'
Jason

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Michael Fowler <mqfowler at mac.com> wrote:
>> And in case you didn't check the met-bull, the Bunburra Rockhole
>> meteorite has been classified as a typical Eucrite.
>> He stated that said meteorite is not from Vesta, but Eucrites are
>> widely accepted to have come from Vesta.
>> I suppose we don't have solid proof of that yet, but it is generally
>> accepted to be true, based on reflected light analyses.
>> Go figure.
>> Jason
>
> Hi Jason,
>
> Sorry if I ruffled your feathers earlier.
>
> I did check the met bulletin, and it is described as: ?" meteorite is a
> basaltic eucrite monomict breccia "
>
> http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/index.php?code=48653
>
> However I note that many meteorites are not correctly classified on their
> first appearance in the Met Bul, ?including of course Ibitria, which is
> still listed as a Eucrite Monomict, even though we know it is not from
> Vesta,
>
> http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/index.php?sea=ibitira&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&valids=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&rect=&phot=&snew=0&pnt=no&code=11993
>
> However back to, Bunburra Rockhole, ?can someone comment or whether the
> mineral composition as stated in the met bul is consistent, or anomalous for
> a eucrite?
>
> Mineral compositions: Pyroxene, Fs62.5Wo3.6 (Fe/Mn-31.1) with augite
> (Fs27.7Wo43.0) lamellae; plagioclase, An84.1 to An88.2.
>
> Of course, the final word is probably the O isotope work, which Dr Bland
> says has already been done, although I couldn't find any additional
> reference.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From mqfowler at mac.com  Fri Sep 18 21:46:10 2009
From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:46:10 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall-Non Vesta Eucrite
Message-ID: <7524EC6F-9156-4EC3-A24E-77539147AD59@mac.com>

>
> After all, Ibitira's a "Eucrite," but NWA 011's an ungrouped
> achondrite. It's the chemical difference that seems to make the
> difference in nomenclature.
> Jason

So Jason,

I guess we can both agree that Bunburra Rockhole is a Eucrite, and  
that most Eucrites, but not all, come from Vesta.

Mike 


From info at meteorites.com.au  Fri Sep 18 21:48:24 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:48:24 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
In-Reply-To: <4AB407ED.40409@optushome.com.au>
References: <BLU137-W2777B03F53A2AE719537A7D6E00@phx.gbl><43i7b5d7ifjdp9iupd1jlrd1o62hkdjp5r@4ax.com><1952813530-1253292910-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1351959397-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
	<4AB407ED.40409@optushome.com.au>
Message-ID: <F97DC0C9BF9F418BBDDDF28FFE549314@JeffPC>

That's right. In fact it was approved and added to the Met Bull database 
earlier this year:

http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/index.php?code=48653

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Norbert & Heike Kammel" <meteorites at optushome.com.au>
To: <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall


The fall actually happened in 2007, Meteoritical Bulletin:  MB 95
<http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/docs/mb95.pdf> .
I heard of it in February this year.
The location  is between Mundrabilla and Cook 001. Coordinates are  31?
21.0'S, 129? 11.4'E, that means 168.6 km east of Mundrabilla and 170.9
km south west of cook 001.
Unfortunately no fragments have been available for collectors.

Cheers, and best regards from Down-Under,

Norbert Kammel
IMCA # 3420


Matt Morgan wrote:
> Looks like a nice eucrite. Similar to Camel Donga.
> Matt
> ----------------------
> Matt Morgan
> Mile High Meteorites
> http://www.mhmeteorites.com
> P.O. Box 151293
> Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darren Garrison <cynapse at charter.net>
>
> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:51:04 To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
>
>
> http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/rare-snapshot-of-solar-systems-dawn-20090918-fvcl.html
>
> Rare snapshot of solar system's dawn
> DEBORAH SMITH SCIENCE EDITOR
> September 19, 2009
>
> CAMERAS set up in outback Australia to track fireballs across the night 
> sky have
> led scientists to a rare meteorite formed at the dawn of the solar system.
>
> The fiery streak it made on descent allowed them not only to pinpoint 
> where it
> would fall on the vast Nullarbor Plain, but also work out where it had 
> come
> from.
>
> Three fragments of the meteorite, the biggest the size of a cricket ball, 
> were
> found within 100 metres of the predicted landing site, Alex Bevan, head of 
> earth
> and planetary science at the Western Australian Museum, said. ''That is
> incredible accuracy.''
>
> Dr Bevan said the Nullarbor desert was chosen for a new fireball 
> observatory
> because of its pale limestone colour. ''Most meteorites are dark so they
> contrast well with the local rock.''
>
> Dubbed Bunburra Rockhole after a nearby landmark, the meteorite was found 
> on the
> first day of searching by the international team, which includes 
> researchers
> from the Perth museum and CSIRO.
>
> Meteorites are among the most studied rocks on Earth, the team leader, 
> Philip
> Bland, of the Imperial College in London, said. ''But it's really rare for 
> us to
> be able to tell where they came from.''
>
> Based on its unusual basalt composition and trajectory, the researchers 
> believe
> the Nullarbor meteorite was once part of an asteroid in the innermost side 
> of
> the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter, until a collision chipped it 
> off
> millions of years ago.
>
> It then moved into an orbit around the sun similar to that of Earth, 
> before
> plummeting to the ground on July 20, 2007.
>
> Weighing about 22 kilograms when it began its fiery descent at an altitude 
> of 60
> kilometres, only fragments of less than 200 grams were left when it hit.
>
> ''We're cautiously optimistic that this find could be the first of many, 
> and if
> that happens, each find may give us more clues about how the solar system
> began,'' Dr Bland, whose team's study was published yesterday in the 
> journal
> Science, said.
>
> Asteroids in the innermost belt are thought to have formed near the sun 
> and
> consist of the same material from which the earth was made.
>
> The fireball observatory consists of a network of four cameras that take a
> single time-lapse picture every night to track any shooting stars, and 
> complex
> mathematics is required to determine a meteorite's original orbit.
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 18 22:12:02 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:12:02 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
Message-ID: <COL108-W1730FF34A40634EEC82BFA9BDF0@phx.gbl>


Hi jason and Mike Fowler,

It's been a privilege to be able to eavesdrop on your discussion on this other body eucrite. You have been most informative and professional. Thanks!

Carl
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web.  Try  Bing? now
http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1

From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Fri Sep 18 21:57:16 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:57:16 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall-Non Vesta Eucrite
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890909181817g6283e670g310f00a457ca7428@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9B8DD20B-6385-4A77-81A5-AF986E13AC40@mac.com>
	<93aaac890909181817g6283e670g310f00a457ca7428@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AB43A7C.20804@usgs.gov>

I don't think there's a difference between any of these meteorites in 
terms of what we should call them.  We just don't have consistent 
terminology in place.  Ibitira, NWA 011, and, it appears, Bunburra 
Rockhole are all basaltic achondrites that seem to come from a separate 
parent body than other basaltic achondrites.  In my opinion, none of 
these should be called a eucrite, just as we don't call angrites 
eucrites. I would prefer to call them ungrouped basaltic achondrites.

If I had a peer-reviewed reference that handled the nomenclature well, 
I'd change the recommended classifications in the MetBull database.

Jeff
Jason Utas wrote:
> Well, oxygen isotopes are one thing, but orbital data would seem to be
> a strange way to classify a meteorite to me; given the past four and a
> half billion years of collisions, things have been far too 'messed up'
> in the inner solar system for that to mean much; we have comets
> present in stable orbits here in the innrer solar system, and it
> doesn't mean that they formed there.
> And most would also make a clear definition between chemical and
> isotopic data, which he confuses (or the reference was a misquote) in
> the article.
> After all, Ibitira's a "Eucrite," but NWA 011's an ungrouped
> achondrite.  It's the chemical difference that seems to make the
> difference in nomenclature.
> Jason
>
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Michael Fowler <mqfowler at mac.com> wrote:
>   
>> Additional information from a Scientific American link that says that the
>> meteorite is not from Vesta, because the orbit is wrong, and the oxygen
>> isotopes are different.
>>
>>
>> http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=recovered-meteorite-points-to-an-un-2009-09-17
>>
>>
>> Mike Fowler
>> Chicago
>>
>>
>>     
>>>> And I think it might be interesting to note this article, where Dr.
>>>> Philip Bland can be quoted as stating that Eucrites are not, in fact,
>>>> from Vesta.
>>>>         
>>>> Go figure.
>>>>         
>>>> http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/technology/6075299/rare-meteorite-found-in-outback/
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Jason
>>>>         
>>> Jason,
>>>
>>> You were a little bit hasty or misleading in your summarizing of Dr
>>> Bland.
>>>
>>> see quote below from the article you cited. (and to think that we are
>>> always criticizing reporters for getting it wrong!)
>>>
>>> Mike Fowler
>>> Chicago
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ""Dr Bland says most basalt meteorites, like the one found in the
>>> Nullarbor, originate from a large asteroid called Vesta but the
>>> Bunburra Rockhole meteorite is different.
>>>
>>> "Our little guy can't be from Vesta, the composition is all wrong," he
>>> said.""
>>>       
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>     
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Fri Sep 18 23:15:23 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:15:23 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
References: <6BE491B4-D647-4D6E-928B-5054DE1D199C@mac.com>
	<93aaac890909181845y5e82cab0l74e5a7a35dd8606d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1C03C201536464591F4FF92F54260B5@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Jason, List

    The word "eucrite" comes from the Greek
and means "easily recognized." It was coined
to describe terrestrial basalts and only later
was it applied to meteorites, and to the most
common of achondrites. It is no longer used
for Earthly rocks.

    They are basalts from lava flows on the
surface of a differentiated body. They're just
ordinary basaltic rocks, only from somewhere
other than Earth.

    The oxygen data is tricky. You plot the slope
of the ratios of O17 or O18 to O16 for each rock.
Those that land on the same slope are not always
from the same body, because different bodies may
have the same oxygen ratios.

    For example, aubrites and lunar achondrites
plot on the terrestrial ratio slope, meaning that
the Earth and the Moon and the Wherever-the-
aubrites-came-from all have the SAME oxygen
ratios. Eucrites from Vesta plot along a slope
all their own.

    I assume what the reporter said of what Bland
said meant that this eucrite does not plot on the
Vestan slope. We have no idea of what slope it
plots on; as is usual with press reports, there is
no usable information in them. What slope did
it plot on? Who knows? Bland does; we're guessing
without data. If he knew the body it came from,
it would be big news and he would have told it.
Shouted it, actually...

    So, it is a basalt lava flow from the crust of
SOME other body than Vesta or a Vestoid, but
otherwise not known. It's a breccia with clasts
so that body has an impact-altered surface. We
have exsolution so it was (once) a big enough body
to have cooled slowly.

    Equally vague and useless are the press release
level comments about "inner solar system" orbits.
Numbers are the only thing with meaning. Semi-major
axis in AU, please, eccentricity, etc. NOT knocking
the scientist speaking, only the reporter listening to
stuff he knows nothing about. It's like sending your
five-year-old to talk to your Congressman, and then
come back and tell you what he said about health
care reform. Meaningless. The "Scientific" American
article is, if anything, more vague.

    The mention of Bottke and SWR studies probably
means the study that showed that many members
of the inner asteroid zone were tossed there from the
very "inner" solar system, <0.5 AU, particularly the
big iron asteroids. This little eucrite could be a chunk
of the largely battered-away former crust of Mercury,
for example. Put a lander on Mercury and measure
the oxygen ratios and we'll know.

    As usual, too little data for ANY conclusion. The
connection with the Bottke study is likely purely
hypothetical. In other words, a guess. There's nothing
you can say about nothing.


Sterling K. Webb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jason Utas" <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
To: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall


Good point; and seeing as such meteorites haven't been
reclassified/re-typed, it seems as though this brings up a very valid
flaw in the classification system of basaltic achondrites.  Perhaps
there are some scientists out there who can shed some light on why
meteorites such as these are called Eucrites when they are apparently
from different parent bodies.  I'd be curious of the general
scientific opinion of the current classification scheme; is it
adequate or should there be more, if not classes, at least meteorites
deemed 'ungrouped.'
Jason

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Michael Fowler <mqfowler at mac.com> 
wrote:
>> And in case you didn't check the met-bull, the Bunburra Rockhole
>> meteorite has been classified as a typical Eucrite.
>> He stated that said meteorite is not from Vesta, but Eucrites are
>> widely accepted to have come from Vesta.
>> I suppose we don't have solid proof of that yet, but it is generally
>> accepted to be true, based on reflected light analyses.
>> Go figure.
>> Jason
>
> Hi Jason,
>
> Sorry if I ruffled your feathers earlier.
>
> I did check the met bulletin, and it is described as: " meteorite is a
> basaltic eucrite monomict breccia "
>
> http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/index.php?code=48653
>
> However I note that many meteorites are not correctly classified on 
> their
> first appearance in the Met Bul, including of course Ibitria, which is
> still listed as a Eucrite Monomict, even though we know it is not from
> Vesta,
>
> http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/index.php?sea=ibitira&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&valids=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&rect=&phot=&snew=0&pnt=no&code=11993
>
> However back to, Bunburra Rockhole, can someone comment or whether the
> mineral composition as stated in the met bul is consistent, or 
> anomalous for
> a eucrite?
>
> Mineral compositions: Pyroxene, Fs62.5Wo3.6 (Fe/Mn-31.1) with augite
> (Fs27.7Wo43.0) lamellae; plagioclase, An84.1 to An88.2.
>
> Of course, the final word is probably the O isotope work, which Dr 
> Bland
> says has already been done, although I couldn't find any additional
> reference.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From cynapse at charter.net  Sat Sep 19 00:25:25 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:25:25 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Arrrh, tis a fine documentary, arrrh.
In-Reply-To: <43i7b5d7ifjdp9iupd1jlrd1o62hkdjp5r@4ax.com>
References: <BLU137-W2777B03F53A2AE719537A7D6E00@phx.gbl>
	<43i7b5d7ifjdp9iupd1jlrd1o62hkdjp5r@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <63n8b5h9itu273dttqr1vvf0dp0vm19as5@4ax.com>

In honor of International Talk Like a Pirate Day...

A documentary:

http://iwillsearch4u.com/inside-planet-earth-2009-dvdrip-xvid-vision/#more-10110

http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=3766255

Has some stuff about asteroids, comets, formation of the moon, and a great short
clip of a guy talking while sitting on Hoba, arrgh.

Voiceover by John Luc Picaaaarrrrd.


From garychase at live.com  Sat Sep 19 00:54:41 2009
From: garychase at live.com (Gary Chase)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:54:41 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports - Mr Hankey
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909161223w52a54312x69c8e2fd7d5219bf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0a794130909161223w52a54312x69c8e2fd7d5219bf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL106-W46766C25D5773637345A80D2DF0@phx.gbl>



Hello Mr. Hankey
 
I just got done reading your website.  Superb Job and a real professional looking site!  I am sure you will are getting a lot of responses to your ad for meteorite hunter trainees.  I was just wondering how many meteorites you have personally found.
 
Thank you for your time.
 
Gary. 
 
> Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 15:23:32 -0400
> From: mike.hankey at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Strange Rock Reports
> 
> I?ve gotten about six strange rock reports so far which is great! It
> shows the locals know meteorites could be on the ground and they are
> keeping an eye out for them. I have been able to identify most of the
> rocks I?ve seen so far, but this one in particular I?m not sure about.
> If anyone knows what this rock is please let me know. It is very hard
> and magnetic seemed like a lot of metal in it. It is pretty weathered
> and hard to tell if it has a crust on it or not.
> 
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock1.jpg
> 
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock2.jpg
> 
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock3.jpg
> 
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock4.jpg
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290

From noah812812 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 19 01:02:21 2009
From: noah812812 at yahoo.com (Noah Travers)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:02:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Denver Show
Message-ID: <945168.12027.qm@web113013.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Is there a Denver Meteorite Show this year?

I have not heard anything about it on this supposed meteorite list between all the alien, pope, and other off topic posts.

Is the Denver show that bad this year that no one wants to talk about it?  Sales and traffic must really be down this year.  Even the Colorado dealers are keeping quiet.

Awaiting news guys.

Noah



      



From info at mcomemeteorite.it  Sat Sep 19 02:32:07 2009
From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:32:07 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Warning, not serious buyer
Message-ID: <4ab47ae7.d1.107d.816921566@webmaildh2.aruba.it>

In this days I have received problems from the person Paulo
Matioli, he have order to me at 1200 euro of meteorites
promise a friend here in Italy pay me first, I have to give
the meteorites to this friend and after this give the
meteorites to Matioli. I have say ok, I have give a discount
on the price and a meteorite free over. I have contact this
friend, seen I know, but he have say immediatly he are not
interested in this type of transictions. After this Matioli
have start to change the order, passing from 1200 euro order
to a 720 euro order and claiming a discount of at 250 euro
and a R chondrite of 100 euro in gift. Sure....after have
say I never give similar discounts, only if the order is
very high, he have change again idea changing again the
order...when I have lost totaly the patience and I have say
if you want this is the price or goodbye, I have close the
order with the excuse the tax for the bank transiction is to
much high to Italy - 10 euro - and why the friend here in
Italy not give a hand to this affair.
A my advise, if this person contact you, forget it its only
time lost

Matteo


M come Meteorite Meteoriti
info at mcomemeteorite.it
http://www.mcomemeteorite.it
http://www.mcomemeteorite.org
Mindat Gallery
http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html
ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici
http://www.chinellatophoto.com


From spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 19 02:42:24 2009
From: spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com (Melanie Matthews)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 23:42:24 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pope Holds Mars Meteorite
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909171015x19469e90p9b1741b76d14cfa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <25628818.1253207313318.JavaMail.root@wamui-hunyo.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<f0a794130909171015x19469e90p9b1741b76d14cfa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU137-W12AEB48F91B6DCAA4AE113D6DF0@phx.gbl>


?men! 

Yes - I am a Christian who embraces science! And am a STRONGLY opposed to that *cult* that became known as "Creation Science" (a very misleading label). 

Regards, and God bless 
- Mel 

----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:15:06 -0400
> From: mike.hankey at gmail.com
> To: countdeiro at earthlink.net
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pope Holds Mars Meteorite
>
> The curator sounds like a pretty interesting person
>
> http://vaticanobservatory.org/GConsolmagno.html
>
> "Religion needs science to keep it away from superstition and keep it
> close to reality, to protect it from creationism, which at the end of
> the day is a kind of paganism - it's turning God into a nature
> god."[2].
>
> I think that statement is kind of relevant to some of the wacky
> conversations we've had on here recently (especially the alien life
> ones). Science and God can co-exist.
>
> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 1:08 PM,  wrote:
>> Galileo rolls over.....smiles...
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Ken Newton 
>>>Sent: Sep 17, 2009 12:15 PM
>>>To: Meteorites USA 
>>>Cc: "meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com" 
>>>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pope Holds Mars Meteorite
>>>
>>>The Vatican meteorite collection is most impressive.
>>>http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1984Metic..19..161S
>>>
>>>Best,
>>>kn
>>>
>>>On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Meteorites USA  wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Religion meets science... Yet again.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0904135.htm
>>>>
>>>> Cool...
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Eric
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>______________________________________________
>>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

_________________________________________________________________
New! Open Messenger faster on the MSN homepage
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677405

From vs.petrovich at gmail.com  Sat Sep 19 03:58:45 2009
From: vs.petrovich at gmail.com (Sergey Vasiliev)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 09:58:45 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Warning, not serious buyer
In-Reply-To: <4ab47ae7.d1.107d.816921566@webmaildh2.aruba.it>
Message-ID: <JPELLBIMOJEBPCPOJGEBMEBPCJAA.vs.petrovich@gmail.com>

Hi Matteo,

I know him for years! He tried several times to do exchange with me for
systematic minerals.

Here is an info about him on mindat:
http://www.mindat.org/mesg-8-105299.html

Yes, it is just a wasting of time...

Best regards,
Sergey

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]On Behalf Of M come
Meteorite Meteorites
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 8:32 AM
To: meteoritelist
Subject: [meteorite-list] Warning, not serious buyer


In this days I have received problems from the person Paulo
Matioli, he have order to me at 1200 euro of meteorites
promise a friend here in Italy pay me first, I have to give
the meteorites to this friend and after this give the
meteorites to Matioli. I have say ok, I have give a discount
on the price and a meteorite free over. I have contact this
friend, seen I know, but he have say immediatly he are not
interested in this type of transictions. After this Matioli
have start to change the order, passing from 1200 euro order
to a 720 euro order and claiming a discount of at 250 euro
and a R chondrite of 100 euro in gift. Sure....after have
say I never give similar discounts, only if the order is
very high, he have change again idea changing again the
order...when I have lost totaly the patience and I have say
if you want this is the price or goodbye, I have close the
order with the excuse the tax for the bank transiction is to
much high to Italy - 10 euro - and why the friend here in
Italy not give a hand to this affair.
A my advise, if this person contact you, forget it its only
time lost

Matteo


M come Meteorite Meteoriti
info at mcomemeteorite.it
http://www.mcomemeteorite.it
http://www.mcomemeteorite.org
Mindat Gallery
http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html
ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici
http://www.chinellatophoto.com
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From info at mcomemeteorite.it  Sat Sep 19 04:05:38 2009
From: info at mcomemeteorite.it (M come Meteorite Meteorites)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 10:05:38 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Warning, not serious buyer
Message-ID: <4ab490d2.f.2437.30918488@webmaildh6.aruba.it>

Hello

I seen its many know this person....

Matteo

----- Original Message -----
Da : "Sergey Vasiliev" <vs.petrovich at gmail.com>
A : "M come Meteorite Meteorites" <info at mcomemeteorite.it>,
"meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Oggetto : RE: [meteorite-list] Warning, not serious buyer
Data : Sat, 19 Sep 2009 09:58:45 +0200

> Hi Matteo,
> 
> I know him for years! He tried several times to do
> exchange with me for systematic minerals.
> 
> Here is an info about him on mindat:
> http://www.mindat.org/mesg-8-105299.html
> 
> Yes, it is just a wasting of time...
> 
> Best regards,
> Sergey
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]On
> Behalf Of M come Meteorite Meteorites
> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 8:32 AM
> To: meteoritelist
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Warning, not serious buyer
> 
> 
> In this days I have received problems from the person
> Paulo Matioli, he have order to me at 1200 euro of
> meteorites promise a friend here in Italy pay me first, I
> have to give the meteorites to this friend and after this
> give the meteorites to Matioli. I have say ok, I have give
> a discount on the price and a meteorite free over. I have
> contact this friend, seen I know, but he have say
> immediatly he are not interested in this type of
> transictions. After this Matioli have start to change the
> order, passing from 1200 euro order to a 720 euro order
> and claiming a discount of at 250 euro and a R chondrite
> of 100 euro in gift. Sure....after have say I never give
> similar discounts, only if the order is very high, he have
> change again idea changing again the order...when I have
> lost totaly the patience and I have say if you want this
> is the price or goodbye, I have close the order with the
> excuse the tax for the bank transiction is to much high to
> Italy - 10 euro - and why the friend here in Italy not
> give a hand to this affair. A my advise, if this person
> contact you, forget it its only time lost
> 
> Matteo
> 
> 
> M come Meteorite Meteoriti
> info at mcomemeteorite.it
> http://www.mcomemeteorite.it
> http://www.mcomemeteorite.org
> Mindat Gallery
> http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html
> ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici
> http://www.chinellatophoto.com
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 

M come Meteorite Meteoriti
info at mcomemeteorite.it
http://www.mcomemeteorite.it
http://www.mcomemeteorite.org
Mindat Gallery
http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html
ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici
http://www.chinellatophoto.com


From mlblood at cox.net  Sat Sep 19 05:31:34 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 02:31:34 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Arrrh, tis a fine documentary, arrrh.
In-Reply-To: <63n8b5h9itu273dttqr1vvf0dp0vm19as5@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <C6D9F306.7726%mlblood@cox.net>

In honor of  "International Talk Like a Pirate Day" I went to
See a new pirate movie......
It was rated ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
        Cap'n Blood


On 9/18/09 9:25 PM, "Darren Garrison" <cynapse at charter.net> wrote:

> In honor of International Talk Like a Pirate Day...
> 
> A documentary:
> 
> http://iwillsearch4u.com/inside-planet-earth-2009-dvdrip-xvid-vision/#more-101
> 10
> 
> http://www.shoppbs.org/product/index.jsp?productId=3766255
> 
> Has some stuff about asteroids, comets, formation of the moon, and a great
> short
> clip of a guy talking while sitting on Hoba, arrgh.
> 
> Voiceover by John Luc Picaaaarrrrd.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list




From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Sat Sep 19 08:16:07 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:16:07 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 19,
	2009
Message-ID: <cee.63f218ba.37e62587@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_19_2009.html  



From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 19 09:49:36 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 06:49:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] a few meteorites forsale (AD)
Message-ID: <100674.18300.qm@web57804.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Good morning list.I have a few meteorites forsale.Nothing extrordinary, like ANSWER,QUEENSLAND AUSTRALIA,or WILLISTON,ND, or SACRAMENTO MTS.No just some plain sa's and unclassed items,so here we go.
__________________________________________________________________________
1.SIKHOTE-ALIN 4.5 GRAM ORIENTED BUTTON WITH THE PERFECT ROLL OVER LIP
 PROVANENCE JIM STROPE                                     $75
2.BONDOC  15 GRAM ENDCUT MIKE FARMER  PROV.                $100
3.NWA 1794  264 GRAM ENDCUT  PROV. MIKE CASPER             $300
4.UNCLASSIFIED STONEY 99% CRUST  81 GRAMS                  $50
5.SIKHOTE-ALIN  4.3 GRAM BUTTON ORIENTED   ROLLOVER LIP    $70
6.UNCLASSIFIED 285 GRAM STONEY 100%  CRUST                 $175
7.ORIENTED GAO/ WOTH NICE FLOW LINES                       $90
8.UNCLASSIFIED 54.5 GRAM STONEY ENDCUT                     $30
9.UNCLASSIFIED 143 GRAM STONEY   98% CRUSTED               $80
__________________________________________________________________________
All shipping is $5 priority and overseas it's $10 or more.Thanks and have  a great day.



Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!!


      


From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 19 11:26:09 2009
From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 08:26:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
In-Reply-To: <A5A24C36F02D446C9128932CBC7F8F33@owner55652f88b>
Message-ID: <69279.12436.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>


> ? ? ? To me---believing that all life has
> originated here on Earth and then 
> spread out from here is like saying that the Earth is still
> the center of 
> the solar system or Universe. And----we don't believe that
> anymore, now do 
> we??
> 

That is not what Mark said and to imply that he did is insulting of the intelligence of anyone with a reasonable grasp of scientific method.
You are entitled to believe what you like but remember that it really is just a belief.

If you are going to insist on panspermia being anything other than another crackpot idea dreamed up by people who prefer conspiracy because the alternatives is unpalatable to them then show me the evidence.
Not the junk you find on youtube posted by idiots, proper evidence, peer reviewed in reputable journals with scientifically reproducible results.

Mark stated (quite clearly, I thought) that all life on earth gan be genetically linked to earth and it seems far more likely that it began here where conditions are ideal than it being delivered here by something else.

I am not sorry about the curt nature of this response. I grow weary of a discussion that has people on one side unwilling to accept science, its methods and its process.
Believe what you will. Nothing I could say would make you change your viewpoint. This sort of idea always seems to possess immense inertia.

Rob McC


      


From majesticmeteorites at gmail.com  Sat Sep 19 11:46:17 2009
From: majesticmeteorites at gmail.com (Whitney Riner)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:46:17 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] TC3 Article
Message-ID: <e283ab000909190846t39f91d1ax1b068d4bcfeb80c@mail.gmail.com>

Popular Science has an article on the TC3 fall--both online and in the
October issue of the magazine.

http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-amp-space/article/2009-09/rock-hunt


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sat Sep 19 12:11:50 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 09:11:50 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
In-Reply-To: <69279.12436.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <69279.12436.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AB502C6.8030707@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi Rob, List,

In regards to your statement... Maybe I'm wrong, or misunderstand...

"...Mark stated (quite clearly, I thought) that all life on earth gan be 
genetically linked to earth and it seems far more likely that it began 
here where conditions are ideal than it being delivered here by 
something else...."

Does that mean that all life that is present on Earth today is 
"genetically linked" to the Earth and that in itself proves it 
originated here?

Are you open to the possibility that SOME of the life here on Earth 
present day, quite possibly could have come from "out there" beyond our 
own little rock of a planet?

Do you NOT believe in the theory of Panspermia or rather the idea that 
dormant, living microbes can be transported between planets and systems 
by ejecta debris from other planets?

Don't you think that sometime in the last 4.6 billion years since the 
beginning of our planet that at least one piece of the "living debris" 
has slammed into our planet?

Hmmm... Sounds like I believe in Panspermia, but I don't fully because 
it implies that all life (on Earth) came from "out there".

I don't believe that ALL life that is presently on Earth originated 
here. Perhaps over millions of years SOME of it has "adapted" not 
evolved, to our planet. Creatures adapt to their environments all the 
time. What's to say that something that landed here 10 million years ago 
didn't adapt into something that could be genetically similar to all 
life on Earth?

What if ALL life everywhere in the universe conforms to the same basic 
genetic structure? Wouldn't this make the Earth based idea moot, and 
suggest it's very likely that we're not in fact the center of the universe?

Regards,
Eric






Rob McCafferty wrote:
>>       To me---believing that all life has
>> originated here on Earth and then 
>> spread out from here is like saying that the Earth is still
>> the center of 
>> the solar system or Universe. And----we don't believe that
>> anymore, now do 
>> we??
>>
>>     
>
> That is not what Mark said and to imply that he did is insulting of the intelligence of anyone with a reasonable grasp of scientific method.
> You are entitled to believe what you like but remember that it really is just a belief.
>
> If you are going to insist on panspermia being anything other than another crackpot idea dreamed up by people who prefer conspiracy because the alternatives is unpalatable to them then show me the evidence.
> Not the junk you find on youtube posted by idiots, proper evidence, peer reviewed in reputable journals with scientifically reproducible results.
>
> Mark stated (quite clearly, I thought) that all life on earth gan be genetically linked to earth and it seems far more likely that it began here where conditions are ideal than it being delivered here by something else.
>
> I am not sorry about the curt nature of this response. I grow weary of a discussion that has people on one side unwilling to accept science, its methods and its process.
> Believe what you will. Nothing I could say would make you change your viewpoint. This sort of idea always seems to possess immense inertia.
>
> Rob McC
>
>
>       
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sat Sep 19 12:15:53 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 09:15:53 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] TC3 Article
In-Reply-To: <e283ab000909190846t39f91d1ax1b068d4bcfeb80c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e283ab000909190846t39f91d1ax1b068d4bcfeb80c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AB503B9.4070106@meteoritesusa.com>

NICE!

For those of you who have clicked on the article link perhaps the photo 
says it all.

There are more meteorite hunters out there than you can shake a stick at:
http://www.popsci.com/files/imagecache/article_image_large/files/articles/header_4.jpg

Is that what the next USA fall is gonna look like?

Wow!

Regards,
Eric


Whitney Riner wrote:
> Popular Science has an article on the TC3 fall--both online and in the
> October issue of the magazine.
>
> http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-amp-space/article/2009-09/rock-hunt
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   



From mqfowler at mac.com  Sat Sep 19 12:33:57 2009
From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:33:57 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
Message-ID: <C2B40B59-CDFD-485C-A0A8-85A6B208EC6E@mac.com>

>
> Mark stated (quite clearly, I thought) that all life on earth gan be  
> genetically linked to earth and it seems far more likely that it  
> began here where conditions are ideal than it being delivered here  
> by something else.   ......
>
>
> Rob McC

Hi Rob,

There is a fascinating  site called "Cosmic Ancestry"  that makes the  
case for panspermia and more in a way that would appeal to the science  
minded person.

http://www.panspermia.org/index.htm

The "What's New" link has refers to research and current findings  
relevant to the panspermia question.

http://www.panspermia.org/index.htm

Mike Fowler

PS  Following example from the current What's New, to give you an  
example of the issues discussed.  Much of this is too highly technical  
for the average person, or meteorite collector, but interesting  
nevertheless:


The gain and loss of exons has contributed to the evolution of new  
features. Evidence for this surmise comes from Japanese and  
Californian geneticists whose primary interest is slightly different:  
domain shuffling in vertebrate genomes. The geneticists conclude that  
domain shuffling is important, and they notice that domains are  
frequently gained or lost during evolution. "These genes are likely to  
have gained new functional roles by acquiring new domains, and are  
likely to be involved in phenotypic evolution," they comment.

Exons are the coding portions of genes, separated by noncoding  
portions called introns. Introns (and consequently, exons) were first  
recognized more than thirty years ago, and their evolutionary purpose  
has been a contentious subject ever since. How could interruptions in  
genes be a good thing? A dozen years ago we suggested, "Introns make  
more sense if evolution is a constructive process requiring the  
assembly of blocks of instructions imported from outside the cell."

Evidence that exons encoding the studied domains were ever gradually  
composed is not apparent in the new report. Rather, in the  
reconstruction of the past, exons seem to simply show up, already  
composed; or else they were present in the most ancient studied  
species. This supports our prediction, "If a new genetic program  
arrives by the strong panspermia process, intervening species should  
possess either nearly identical versions of it ...or nothing similar..."

If the studied domains were not gradually composed by mutation-and- 
natural-selection, how did they acquire their programming? Could they  
be encoded by random, "junk" DNA that just happens to contain working  
programs or subroutines? No. Simple math makes that hope forbiddingly  
unlikely for any but trivially small domains of, say, fifteen or fewer  
codons. Meanwhile, the studied domains appear to average about 150  
codons in length, the largest one longer than 3,000 codons.

The geneticists' conclusion concerning domain shuffling also interests  
us, because, "In the evolutionary mechanism we advocate, new genetic  
programs are acquired whole or in a few large pieces and then  
assembled by genetic software with rule-following, puzzle-solving  
capabilities."

In cosmic ancestry, genetic programming is as old as life itself.  
During evolution the program components need assembly and  
optimization, but the essence is there already. We think the data  
support this expectation.



Takeshi Kawashima et al., "Domain shuffling and the evolution of  
vertebrates" [abstract], doi:10.1101/gr.087072.108, p1393-1403 v19,  
Genome Res., Aug 2009.




From fujmon at mac.com  Sat Sep 19 12:34:37 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 06:34:37 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-ebay auctions ending soon
Message-ID: <2824AE44-6202-479F-9B4E-B3F8754C310C@mac.com>

Good I have some meteorites on ebay auction ending TODAY beginning  
soon at 11:02 PDT.    There are a lot of quality meteorites available  
at discount prices - some still as low as 99?.
Up on the block are:

NWA 869 individuals of aesthetic shape and orientation
NWA x 48g unclassified oriented nosecone
Sah 02500 62.91g complete individual
Chergach - 10.7g complete fusion crusted stone
NWA x CV3 - 4.82g small, flat carbonaceous
Bassikounou - 3.92g individual w/ 99% FC
Lava Olivine Xenolith - 754g Bombs Away!

Mahalo for looking and have a great weekend!

Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From bandk at chorus.net  Sat Sep 19 14:38:04 2009
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 13:38:04 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
References: <69279.12436.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E6785F6263C1411FB6DBB72C2C699A23@owner55652f88b>

Rob,
       You are certainly entitled to your own view----as I am.
No reason for you to be curt though----as you say.
Have a nice day!
Kirk.......
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
To: "Becky and Kirk" <bandk at chorus.net>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!



> To me---believing that all life has
> originated here on Earth and then
> spread out from here is like saying that the Earth is still
> the center of
> the solar system or Universe. And----we don't believe that
> anymore, now do
> we??
>

That is not what Mark said and to imply that he did is insulting of the 
intelligence of anyone with a reasonable grasp of scientific method.
You are entitled to believe what you like but remember that it really is 
just a belief.

If you are going to insist on panspermia being anything other than another 
crackpot idea dreamed up by people who prefer conspiracy because the 
alternatives is unpalatable to them then show me the evidence.
Not the junk you find on youtube posted by idiots, proper evidence, peer 
reviewed in reputable journals with scientifically reproducible results.

Mark stated (quite clearly, I thought) that all life on earth gan be 
genetically linked to earth and it seems far more likely that it began here 
where conditions are ideal than it being delivered here by something else.

I am not sorry about the curt nature of this response. I grow weary of a 
discussion that has people on one side unwilling to accept science, its 
methods and its process.
Believe what you will. Nothing I could say would make you change your 
viewpoint. This sort of idea always seems to possess immense inertia.

Rob McC





From grf2 at comcast.net  Sat Sep 19 16:49:03 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 16:49:03 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
References: <69279.12436.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <64D690916F9B4637BDA94F950ED0571D@ASUS>

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/09/is-life-hardwired-into-the-universe-some-experts-say-yes.html
Life hardwired into Universe [at least the one we know about--Universe 
thatis]

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 11:26 AM
To: "Becky and Kirk" <bandk at chorus.net>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!

>
>> To me---believing that all life has
>> originated here on Earth and then
>> spread out from here is like saying that the Earth is still
>> the center of
>> the solar system or Universe. And----we don't believe that
>> anymore, now do
>> we??
>>
>
> That is not what Mark said and to imply that he did is insulting of the 
> intelligence of anyone with a reasonable grasp of scientific method.
> You are entitled to believe what you like but remember that it really is 
> just a belief.
>
> If you are going to insist on panspermia being anything other than another 
> crackpot idea dreamed up by people who prefer conspiracy because the 
> alternatives is unpalatable to them then show me the evidence.
> Not the junk you find on youtube posted by idiots, proper evidence, peer 
> reviewed in reputable journals with scientifically reproducible results.
>
> Mark stated (quite clearly, I thought) that all life on earth gan be 
> genetically linked to earth and it seems far more likely that it began 
> here where conditions are ideal than it being delivered here by something 
> else.
>
> I am not sorry about the curt nature of this response. I grow weary of a 
> discussion that has people on one side unwilling to accept science, its 
> methods and its process.
> Believe what you will. Nothing I could say would make you change your 
> viewpoint. This sort of idea always seems to possess immense inertia.
>
> Rob McC
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From grf2 at comcast.net  Sat Sep 19 16:52:15 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 16:52:15 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] TC3 Article
References: <e283ab000909190846t39f91d1ax1b068d4bcfeb80c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8B9143B2C7CD44AF925AB4733B9AC7A4@ASUS>

Great Article "One Picture....."

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Whitney Riner" <majesticmeteorites at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 11:46 AM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] TC3 Article

> Popular Science has an article on the TC3 fall--both online and in the
> October issue of the magazine.
>
> http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-amp-space/article/2009-09/rock-hunt
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From mlblood at cox.net  Sat Sep 19 18:35:41 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 15:35:41 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bugs In Space!
In-Reply-To: <69279.12436.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C6DAAACD.7750%mlblood@cox.net>

On 9/19/09 8:26 AM, "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com> wrote:

> If you are going to insist on panspermia being anything other than another
> crackpot idea dreamed up by people who prefer conspiracy....
Hmmmm.....
        Panspermia is a theory just as all other "beginning of life"
explanations are theories (except the thousands of creation myths in
thousands of cultures - they are myths - that is why they are called
"creation myths" and to claim one's own culture has THE correct
creation myth and all others are wrong is so ethnocentric as to be
definitively exemplary of the term).
    No one can claim to "know" what is what, we can only gather data - none
of which is yet conclusive regarding this. To believe one's opinion in this
arena is "right" is an act of faith at best. While everyone has a right to
their own faith, ramming it down others' throats is way out of line. A
simple statement of belief is sufficient. Anything more is uncivil.
        So, let's be civil in discussions of same.
        Best wishes, Michael




From cdtucson at cox.net  Sat Sep 19 16:00:01 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 13:00:01 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
In-Reply-To: <C1C03C201536464591F4FF92F54260B5@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <20090919160001.9K92Y.268724.imail@fed1rmwml44>

Sterling,
This may not surprise you but, I did not know that aubrites plotted on the same oxygen slope line as Earth and our Moon.
Does this mean that Aubrites could possibly be meteorites from Earth? I believe it was decided earlier they would be called "terrane"meteorites? 
Has this previously been discussed here on this list?  
I ask because don't we also apply a lot of weight to oxygen isotopes in determining if rocks indeed came from Mars? Sort of like if the glove fits? Or if it don't fit, you must acquit? 
Carl E. 

--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
IMCA 5829
Meteoritemax


---- "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> wrote: 
> Hi, Jason, List
> 
>     The word "eucrite" comes from the Greek
> and means "easily recognized." It was coined
> to describe terrestrial basalts and only later
> was it applied to meteorites, and to the most
> common of achondrites. It is no longer used
> for Earthly rocks.
> 
>     They are basalts from lava flows on the
> surface of a differentiated body. They're just
> ordinary basaltic rocks, only from somewhere
> other than Earth.
> 
>     The oxygen data is tricky. You plot the slope
> of the ratios of O17 or O18 to O16 for each rock.
> Those that land on the same slope are not always
> from the same body, because different bodies may
> have the same oxygen ratios.
> 
>     For example, aubrites and lunar achondrites
> plot on the terrestrial ratio slope, meaning that
> the Earth and the Moon and the Wherever-the-
> aubrites-came-from all have the SAME oxygen
> ratios. Eucrites from Vesta plot along a slope
> all their own.
> 
>     I assume what the reporter said of what Bland
> said meant that this eucrite does not plot on the
> Vestan slope. We have no idea of what slope it
> plots on; as is usual with press reports, there is
> no usable information in them. What slope did
> it plot on? Who knows? Bland does; we're guessing
> without data. If he knew the body it came from,
> it would be big news and he would have told it.
> Shouted it, actually...
> 
>     So, it is a basalt lava flow from the crust of
> SOME other body than Vesta or a Vestoid, but
> otherwise not known. It's a breccia with clasts
> so that body has an impact-altered surface. We
> have exsolution so it was (once) a big enough body
> to have cooled slowly.
> 
>     Equally vague and useless are the press release
> level comments about "inner solar system" orbits.
> Numbers are the only thing with meaning. Semi-major
> axis in AU, please, eccentricity, etc. NOT knocking
> the scientist speaking, only the reporter listening to
> stuff he knows nothing about. It's like sending your
> five-year-old to talk to your Congressman, and then
> come back and tell you what he said about health
> care reform. Meaningless. The "Scientific" American
> article is, if anything, more vague.
> 
>     The mention of Bottke and SWR studies probably
> means the study that showed that many members
> of the inner asteroid zone were tossed there from the
> very "inner" solar system, <0.5 AU, particularly the
> big iron asteroids. This little eucrite could be a chunk
> of the largely battered-away former crust of Mercury,
> for example. Put a lander on Mercury and measure
> the oxygen ratios and we'll know.
> 
>     As usual, too little data for ANY conclusion. The
> connection with the Bottke study is likely purely
> hypothetical. In other words, a guess. There's nothing
> you can say about nothing.
> 
> 
> Sterling K. Webb
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jason Utas" <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
> To: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 8:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
> 
> 
> Good point; and seeing as such meteorites haven't been
> reclassified/re-typed, it seems as though this brings up a very valid
> flaw in the classification system of basaltic achondrites.  Perhaps
> there are some scientists out there who can shed some light on why
> meteorites such as these are called Eucrites when they are apparently
> from different parent bodies.  I'd be curious of the general
> scientific opinion of the current classification scheme; is it
> adequate or should there be more, if not classes, at least meteorites
> deemed 'ungrouped.'
> Jason
> 
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 6:37 PM, Michael Fowler <mqfowler at mac.com> 
> wrote:
> >> And in case you didn't check the met-bull, the Bunburra Rockhole
> >> meteorite has been classified as a typical Eucrite.
> >> He stated that said meteorite is not from Vesta, but Eucrites are
> >> widely accepted to have come from Vesta.
> >> I suppose we don't have solid proof of that yet, but it is generally
> >> accepted to be true, based on reflected light analyses.
> >> Go figure.
> >> Jason
> >
> > Hi Jason,
> >
> > Sorry if I ruffled your feathers earlier.
> >
> > I did check the met bulletin, and it is described as: " meteorite is a
> > basaltic eucrite monomict breccia "
> >
> > http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/index.php?code=48653
> >
> > However I note that many meteorites are not correctly classified on 
> > their
> > first appearance in the Met Bul, including of course Ibitria, which is
> > still listed as a Eucrite Monomict, even though we know it is not from
> > Vesta,
> >
> > http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/index.php?sea=ibitira&sfor=names&ants=&falls=&valids=&stype=contains&lrec=50&map=ge&browse=&country=All&srt=name&categ=All&mblist=All&rect=&phot=&snew=0&pnt=no&code=11993
> >
> > However back to, Bunburra Rockhole, can someone comment or whether the
> > mineral composition as stated in the met bul is consistent, or 
> > anomalous for
> > a eucrite?
> >
> > Mineral compositions: Pyroxene, Fs62.5Wo3.6 (Fe/Mn-31.1) with augite
> > (Fs27.7Wo43.0) lamellae; plagioclase, An84.1 to An88.2.
> >
> > Of course, the final word is probably the O isotope work, which Dr 
> > Bland
> > says has already been done, although I couldn't find any additional
> > reference.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Sat Sep 19 23:10:54 2009
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 23:10:54 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] 4 Panama Teens Beat Alien To Death!
Message-ID: <F5C8444E370C4400A3724983FC299023@whitmerjbqtim1>

They're here and teenagers are beating them to death:


http://www.examiner.com/x-12837-US-Headlines-Examiner~y2009m9d18-Unidentified-creature-resembling-alien-found-in-Panama-another-Montauk-Monstervideo-and-photos

Phil Whitmer 



From cynapse at charter.net  Sun Sep 20 00:16:06 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 23:16:06 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] 4 Panama Teens Beat Alien To Death!
In-Reply-To: <F5C8444E370C4400A3724983FC299023@whitmerjbqtim1>
References: <F5C8444E370C4400A3724983FC299023@whitmerjbqtim1>
Message-ID: <v2bbb55m3etbu5i380gfuvcamj7a7m2h6k@4ax.com>

On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 23:10:54 -0400, you wrote:

>They're here and teenagers are beating them to death:
>
>
>http://www.examiner.com/x-12837-US-Headlines-Examiner~y2009m9d18-Unidentified-creature-resembling-alien-found-in-Panama-another-Montauk-Monstervideo-and-photos

He's a native of the planet Folivora:

http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2009/09/panamanian_blue_hill_monster.php


From bobl at peaktopeak.com  Sat Sep 19 23:20:00 2009
From: bobl at peaktopeak.com (Bob Loeffler)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 21:20:00 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Denver Show
In-Reply-To: <945168.12027.qm@web113013.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090920032503.8C86A10565@mailwash5.pair.com>

Hi Noah,

Yes, the Denver Show was this week (and weekend).  I sent out an e-mail to
the list on Saturday, August 29th with details of the auction and
get-together, so you must've missed it.  The auction and get-together was
last night.  I wasn't able to attend due to illness, but I talked to Bill
Jensen today and he said that it was a good time, although there were fewer
items in the auctions than usual.

The Denver Show ends tomorrow (Sunday) night.  See the main Denver Show's
website link below.  Fred Hall of Meteorhall and Ronnie McKenzie are both in
our main show.  The other big show (which has Blaine Reed Meteorites and a
couple others) is at the Holiday Inn hotel.  That show's details can be
found at:  http://www.mzexpos.com/colorado_fall.htm

Regards,

Bob Loeffler
COMETS
http://www.peaktopeak.com/comets/

Webmaster and Asst. Dealer Chairman
Denver Gem and Mineral Show
http://www.DenverMineralShow.com


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Noah
Travers
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2009 11:02 PM
To: meteoritecentral
Subject: [meteorite-list] Denver Show

Is there a Denver Meteorite Show this year?

I have not heard anything about it on this supposed meteorite list between
all the alien, pope, and other off topic posts.

Is the Denver show that bad this year that no one wants to talk about it?
Sales and traffic must really be down this year.  Even the Colorado dealers
are keeping quiet.

Awaiting news guys.

Noah



      

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.104/2379 - Release Date: 09/18/09
07:49:00



From bencubbin at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 20 00:24:16 2009
From: bencubbin at hotmail.com (Howard Steffic)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 22:24:16 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Denver Show
In-Reply-To: <945168.12027.qm@web113013.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <945168.12027.qm@web113013.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <COL118-W3332F2360064F2CDAC35BB7DE0@phx.gbl>


I was going to post a photo for pic of the day to Michael Johnson of the Denver show but could not find anyone to take a photo of.  Crickets were chirping in the hallways.

Howard Steffic 


> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:02:21 -0700
> From: noah812812 at yahoo.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Denver Show
> 
> Is there a Denver Meteorite Show this year?
> 
> I have not heard anything about it on this supposed meteorite list between all the alien, pope, and other off topic posts.
> 
> Is the Denver show that bad this year that no one wants to talk about it? Sales and traffic must really be down this year. Even the Colorado dealers are keeping quiet.
> 
> Awaiting news guys.
> 
> Noah
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web.  Try  Bing? now
http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1

From mexicodoug at aim.com  Sun Sep 20 02:19:42 2009
From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 02:19:42 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Denver Show
In-Reply-To: <COL118-W3332F2360064F2CDAC35BB7DE0@phx.gbl>
References: <945168.12027.qm@web113013.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
	<COL118-W3332F2360064F2CDAC35BB7DE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CC07D1780C7627-16C0-7ABD@webmail-d007.sysops.aol.com>

Dear List,
Let me try to give a little view of what I have seen here ... The 
dealers I've bumped into seem to have varying results, though 
definitely not a stellar Denver this time. This is all put into 
perspective, when I spoke with a lot of the mineral dealers who will 
not be lucky enough to cover expenses. Fred Hall had a nice setup and 
Blaine's room was as cheerful as ever. Hans and his entourage had a 
pile of meteorite people pouring out last time I passed there and other 
friendly meteorite folks were doing business in the parking lot. Jose 
of Rock Gems brought his lovely wife to Denver and kindly invited me 
over to join them for lunch in spectacular weather. Generally the show 
seems rather light on material, and spread out - but there are a few 
interesting things out there if you looked hard enough that were nice 
surprises. The get together sponsored by COMETS was nice last night and 
the buyers and sellers were all kind and generous. Twink Monrad and her 
host were very kind as usual, and Larry Sloan was in friendly to hang 
with. I finally got a little mnemonic to know which Jensen is which on 
sight (a big accomplishment for me and I am embarrassed, also finally 
got all the Larry last names right after making a fool of myself 
twisting names forever - I think I got it anyway. Some nice Denver 
meteorite folk you just get to meet here - one collecting for over 20 
years ...=2
0and Fred Olson a real kind host to lend his great warehouse 
for meteorite activities. Saw some big slices of Fukang that were 
reasonably priced. Matt Morgan was around having a laid back time. 
Keith & Dana Jenkersen had a great selection of irons to show. Mike 
Farmer, Jim Strope, Robert Ward and Shauna showed up today with the 
usual high energy. Mike seemed to be smiling about his latest adventure 
but wouldn't spill the beans even after eating Mexican food. Elsewhere, 
at the show, I passed on a Benguerir since I didn't have any money, but 
would have like to own at a reasonable price - hadn't seen that fall in 
a while. The creme of Sikhote individuals was hard to find unless they 
were gone before I arrived (a distinct possibility). Isheyevo made a 
brief but surprise appearance... Elsewhere a mouthwatering Tamdakht 
mostly crusted multi-kilo that made the 1.3 kg 80% monolithic metal 
melted veined crusted one I am interviewing potential new homes for 
feel oddly small - quite a remarkable accomplishment considering the 
rarity material. (There are probably less than 10 specimens existing 
 from everything I know, that are not Humpty Dumpty specimens and the 
prices are to pounce on). Some Martian stuff was reasonably priced by a 
friendly Blue-nomad dude hanging out by the pool. I passed on the $800 
jumbo Martian thin section with a chuckle. There seemed to be a lot 
more socializing than hard core Tucson dealing going o
n. But the show 
did seem empty at times. One guy had a 3.5 kilo gibeon sphere he was 
bowling down the hall in front of our room and he didn't knock anyone 
down after two tries. One thing most have been happy with is the 
beautiful weather. My roommates visited a mountain paradise yesterday 
but eventually caught their breath and found their way home. Lots more 
people hanging out doing some low key shopping like Darryl Pitt who put 
a nice historical Japanese meteorite into the auction. I am trying to 
remember everyone but names are not my specialty unless they are 
meteorite localities which seem unforgettable after hearing one time - 
why is this? A lot of people seem to have meteorite hunting expeditions 
planed at every point of the compass after leaving from Denver, and I 
don-t just mean the USA. Good luck to everyone, and thanks to those who 
made the efforts to come here and share their stuff and smiles.

Best wishes,
Doug






-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Steffic <bencubbin at hotmail.com>
To: noah812812 at yahoo.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:24 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Denver Show



I was going to post a photo for pic of the day to Michael Johnson of 
the Denver
show but could not find anyone to take a photo of. Crickets were 
chirping in
the hallways.

Howard Steffic


> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 22:02:21 -0700
>=2
0From: noah812812 at yahoo.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Denver Show
>
> Is there a Denver Meteorite Show this year?
>
> I have not heard anything about it on this supposed meteorite list 
between all
the alien, pope, and other off topic posts.
>
> Is the Denver show that bad this year that no one wants to talk about 
it?
Sales and traffic must really be down this year. Even the Colorado 
dealers are
keeping quiet.
>
> Awaiting news guys.
>
> Noah
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
_________________________________________________________________
Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web. Try Bing? now
http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try 

bing_1x1
______________________________________________
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Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From leighannedelray at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 03:50:41 2009
From: leighannedelray at gmail.com (Leigh Anne DelRay)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 00:50:41 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: Ebay auctions ending tonight TAZA,
	Sikhote Alin with STAMP, henbury, moldavite,
	LDG Mundrabilla and more
Message-ID: <5e97e2850909200050j6d63eb73pee7f0a4a1ec3a53d@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
Just a reminder that my 10 day auctions are ending tonight (Sunday
evening actually).
Thanks so much,
Have a good night/morning.

http://shop.ebay.com/callistodesigns/m.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A1205&_ipg=&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_sop=16&_sc=1

~Leigh Anne


From spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 20 07:24:08 2009
From: spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com (Melanie Matthews)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 04:24:08 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Shivalingams impactites?
Message-ID: <BLU137-W477BBCD94BA726F8EF04BD6DE0@phx.gbl>


Good morning list. 

I was told once by the store owner of a local rock shop that shivalingams are the result of meteor impacts in India... think I recall her claim was backed by info from a rock/mineral book that she uses for reference. Is this true? I haven't found anything on google that mentions anything on that.. 

Regards 
- Mel 

_________________________________________________________________
New! Open Messenger faster on the MSN homepage
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677405

From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Sun Sep 20 10:15:35 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 10:15:35 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 20,
	2009
Message-ID: <cc0.5e91a049.37e79307@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_20_2009.html 



From cynapse at charter.net  Sun Sep 20 11:26:10 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 10:26:10 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lust...in...space!
In-Reply-To: <5e97e2850909200050j6d63eb73pee7f0a4a1ec3a53d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5e97e2850909200050j6d63eb73pee7f0a4a1ec3a53d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <haicb5t7mhnv308uei2r76lcpcpkriuclj@4ax.com>

http://www.wretch.cc/blog/lin440315/21105824


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 14:32:09 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 11:32:09 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Shivalingams impactites?
In-Reply-To: <BLU137-W477BBCD94BA726F8EF04BD6DE0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU137-W477BBCD94BA726F8EF04BD6DE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <93aaac890909201132t7cf4e170x40707067c0d0c39f@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Mel,
Shiva Lingams are ordinary stones that have been polished by people
into their respective shapes to create the religiously symbolic stones
that people so seem to like.  They are generally made of ordinary
rocks with nothing really special about them - unless you believe in
their religious/spiritual nature.  I suppose you could have one made
out of impactite, or even a meteorite, but I have *never* seen one
made of said materials.  They're typically made of that odd
dichromatic sedimentary stone (at least I'm fairly sure it's
sedimentary given the texture), but I'm not exactly sure as to what it
is.
Regards,
Jason

On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Melanie Matthews
<spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Good morning list.
>
> I was told once by the store owner of a local rock shop that shivalingams are the result of meteor impacts in India... think I recall her claim was backed by info from a rock/mineral book that she uses for reference. Is this true? I haven't found anything on google that mentions anything on that..
>
> Regards
> - Mel
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> New! Open Messenger faster on the MSN homepage
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677405
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From stm at bellsouth.net  Sun Sep 20 14:54:19 2009
From: stm at bellsouth.net (Sean T. Murray)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 14:54:19 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Shivalingams impactites?
In-Reply-To: <BLU137-W477BBCD94BA726F8EF04BD6DE0@phx.gbl>
References: <BLU137-W477BBCD94BA726F8EF04BD6DE0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0D21B7893926427398E39A529AC0B8D5@Platinum2>

Highly doubtful - Every one I have ever seen appears to be polished quartz 
bearing river rocks that are picked because of their elongated/egg shape and 
colors.  They are usually fished out of the Narmada River in India.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Melanie Matthews" <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:24 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Shivalingams impactites?


>
> Good morning list.
>
> I was told once by the store owner of a local rock shop that shivalingams 
> are the result of meteor impacts in India... think I recall her claim was 
> backed by info from a rock/mineral book that she uses for reference. Is 
> this true? I haven't found anything on google that mentions anything on 
> that..
>
> Regards
> - Mel
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> New! Open Messenger faster on the MSN homepage
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677405
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de  Sun Sep 20 16:09:35 2009
From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (info at niger-meteorite-recon.de)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:09:35 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sculpted 4.9 kg Sikhote - Heavily oriented and
 flow lined 738 g Dhofar - AD
Message-ID: <1921073541.41271.1253477375788.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxltgw15.schlund.de>

Dear fellow collectors,
?
A week ago I announced to a few of you?that in the process of funding a new
project I?had to offer?two quite exclusive specimens from my collection. When I
uploaded these specimens together with a couple of others on ebay I was met a
wave of support and encouragements. Many of you didn't hesitate to placed bids
and I recognized quite a number of familar?ebay?identities. To those that bid:
Thank you all for your support and encouragement, your efforts are much
appreciated.
?
To all others interested, the auctions are running and those who are familar
with my collection focus are aware that these specimens?were selected with a
keen eye for special morphologies.
?
There is a large and exceptionally sculpted Sikhote Alin of 4.9 kg that is
worth?to take a look at, even if you do not intend a purchase.
?
Another premium specimen is?a?heavily oriented L5 chondrite of 738 g with
stunning radial flow lines. That one is a true?textbook example of
characteristic orientation features. ?Those of you who went out meteorite
prospecting in the field will know that only one among a thousand meteorites you
may find displays such dramatic orientation.
?
Other specimens offered include Kilabo, Benguerir, a 73g Juancheng, a 56g
Allende and La Criolla.
?
You'll find all auctions here:
http://shop.ebay.com/werffroenne/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=
?
?
and perhaps you've been looking for an old school?NASA type meteorite scale
cube? This one is among the last from our recent production series:
? 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200384401841&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
?
Thanks for your patience and your interest.
?
Svend
?
www.meteorite-recon.com


From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 21:46:31 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:46:31 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] strange rock - meteor wrong sliced
Message-ID: <f0a794130909201846x77b24ab6jc8352a77caafaf96@mail.gmail.com>

List member Derik Bower sliced up the strange rock that was reported
to me last week. (thanks Derik)

I originally thought this was a type of slag. When I sent the pics out
to the list a lot of people said it was worth following up on.

The window test revealed some bubbles and it was game over at that
point. I wanted to slice it open just to see what it looked like on
the inside:

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock-slice.jpg

Thanks for all the help last week with this. I learned several new
identification tests:
- base density test
- window test
- tile scrape test
- slice test
- nickle test

Mike Hankey
http://www.mikesastrophotos.com


From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Sun Sep 20 22:04:34 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (mail at mhmeteorites.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:04:34 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] ALERT-86g Millbillillie STOLEN from Blaine Reed
Message-ID: <20090920190434.6hr67fky8cc4o088@webmail.mhmeteorites.com>

Hi everyone:
Some not-so-good news from the Denver show.  Sometime before 1:30 PM  
today (9/20) and after Blaine closed yesterday (9/19), an 86 gram  
Millbillillie end cut was stolen from Blaine's room.  The piece  
belonged to me and was in the cabinet near the entrance to his room.   
If anyone has information about this specimen please contact me or  
Blaine ASAP.

Pictures of the specimen can be seen here:
<http://www.mhmeteorites.com/images/millbillillie_86.jpg>

Thanks for your time.
Matt Morgan


From bencubbin at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 20 22:24:43 2009
From: bencubbin at hotmail.com (Howard Steffic)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:24:43 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] strange rock - meteor wrong sliced
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909201846x77b24ab6jc8352a77caafaf96@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0a794130909201846x77b24ab6jc8352a77caafaf96@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL118-W143E40C48A06F406054794B7DD0@phx.gbl>


Great Job, Mr Hankey.
 
Hopefully soon you have the joy of finding your first meteorite.



Howard Steffic





----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 21:46:31 -0400
> From: mike.hankey at gmail.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] strange rock - meteor wrong sliced
>
> List member Derik Bower sliced up the strange rock that was reported
> to me last week. (thanks Derik)
>
> I originally thought this was a type of slag. When I sent the pics out
> to the list a lot of people said it was worth following up on.
>
> The window test revealed some bubbles and it was game over at that
> point. I wanted to slice it open just to see what it looked like on
> the inside:
>
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gideon-rock-slice.jpg
>
> Thanks for all the help last week with this. I learned several new
> identification tests:
> - base density test
> - window test
> - tile scrape test
> - slice test
> - nickle test
>
> Mike Hankey
> http://www.mikesastrophotos.com
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009

From mikewren at gilanet.com  Sun Sep 20 22:23:43 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:23:43 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: New Baby On The Way Sale and New Set Of
	Auctions Started!
Message-ID: <D07C5671-65A5-499B-9537-2A0EEEB8FC67@gilanet.com>

Hello All !


My wife and I are expecting another baby any day now and I have  
decided to try and get another auction run in before I take a break  
for awhile.  I also, placed some of my best pieces at prices that have  
not been seen before.  This is the time to BUY, PLACE BIDS, & MAKE  
OFFERS on my cool meteorites! I might be taking a long break to attend  
to new baby duties for awhile.

Here is the Link to The Auctions:

http://shop.ebay.com:80/merchant/meteorite-collector_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ



Thanks and Best Wishes

Michael


From kowalski at lpl.arizona.edu  Sun Sep 20 22:42:07 2009
From: kowalski at lpl.arizona.edu (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:42:07 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2008 TC3 to Almahatta Sitta and back to Tucson
Message-ID: <4AB6E7FF.9090701@lpl.arizona.edu>

Hello all,

just a brief note to let you know that I have received my own piece of 2008 TC3 
thanks to a number of people from all around the world.
I'd like to publicly thank all of you who donated money on my behalf and 
especially Herbert Raab for making this come true. I am honored and humbled by 
your generosity!

I have uploaded a photo to two locations, of me holding the fully crusted, 2.1 
gram individual in front of the Catalina Sky Survey's 1.5-m (60") telescope, 
where 2008 TC3 was discovered last October.

Subscribers to MPML can view the image in the photo section for the list under 
the Catalina Sky Survey album and it can also be viewed via this direct link.

http://fullmoonphotography.net/images/Meteorites/RAKowalski_G96_2008TC3-a.jpg

Thank you all.


-- 
Richard Kowalski
Catalina Sky Survey
Lunar and Planetary Laboratory
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ  85721



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Sun Sep 20 23:01:39 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:01:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Rover Spirit's Fate Weighed as Options Dwindle
Message-ID: <200909210301.n8L31dRh006321@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0909/18spirit/

Mars rover Spirit's fate weighed as options dwindle
BY CRAIG COVAULT
SPACEFLIGHT NOW
September 18, 2009

The Mars rover Spirit engineering team trying to free the spacecraft
from the sand trap that halted driving five months ago is becoming more
realistic, if not pessimistic, about whether this marvel of the U.S.
space program will ever rove again.

"Tests on Earth simulating Spirit's predicament on Mars have reinforced
understanding that getting Spirit to rove again will be very difficult,"
says a new rover status report issued by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

"There is a very real possibility that Spirit may not be able to get
out," says John Callas, rover project manager.

A remarkable image (below) from the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO)
looking down from 185 mi. above shows Spirit with its swept wing solar
arrays sitting at the 9 o'clock position beside the circular 260 ft.
dia. Home Plate volcanic feature were it became mired in early May.

[Image]
This view of Spirit stuck by Home Plate was taken from the Mars
Reconnaissance Orbiter. Credit: NASA/University of Arizona
 
If a drive out strategy fails, this MRO view shows where Spirit will
stay intact for perhaps millions of years, depending upon decisions made
in the course of the human exploration of Mars in coming centuries.

Spirit became embedded in soft soil at this site called "Troy" more than
five years into a mission on Mars that was originally scheduled to last
for three months. The rover team suspended further driving attempts with
Spirit, while evaluating possibilities from tests performed at JPL
simulating the Troy situation.

Rover managers point out that when Spirit originally became stuck they
said then the event could mark the end of roving. This would turn Spirit
into a still scientifically active but fixed spacecraft for local soil
analysis, panoramic imaging and weather data.

But engineers also showed more optimism earlier when beginning the test
of wheel drive and steering scenarios with JPL's primary test rover.
Those tests are being done in specially formulated Martian-like soil.

Callas adds that a new series of ground tests and computer simulations
are designed to give the rover "very best chance" it can have to move
again.

"We are proceeding very cautiously and exploring all reasonable
options," he says in the JPL assessment. A mid summer plan to use the
ground test data acquired to that point for new maneuver commands for a
drive out attempt in August were shelved when a review (see photo below)
found they would have almost no chance of success. Now the earliest such
drive out attempts will be made is well into October.

Two test rovers, instead of just one, are being used for these extended
tests. One weighs about 150 lb. like the two spacecraft on Mars, and
another more realistic one weighing more than 400 lb. -- the flight
rovers' weight on Earth. One oddity of testing is that the heavier rover
earlier seemed to provide better data on drive options than the rover
duplicating the lighter Martian weight.

The Surface System Testbed Lite, weighs about the same on Earth as
Spirit does on Mars. Unlike the primary test rover called simply the
Surface System Testbed.

The lighter model does not carry science instruments or a robotic arm.
An object that weighs 10 pounds on Earth weighs just 3.8 pounds on Mars,
due to the smaller mass of Mars compared to Earth.

New computer modeling using results from both test rovers is now being
compiled to aid the decision process on how to proceed with drive-out
options on Mars. The planet is now about 139 million mi. from Earth and
temporarily growing closer at about 570 mi. per minute as Mars moves in
its orbit around the Sun relative to Earth.

"The computer modeling will allow us to connect the results from tests
performed in Earth gravity with what to expect from the rover in Mars
gravity," says Callas.

An additional round of testing was added to the September schedule to
gain more detailed assessment of how to move Spirit while avoiding
putting the rover's center of gravity directly over a rock that is
touching or nearly touching the rover's underbelly. A complete "dress
rehearsal" test of the extrication strategy judged to hold the best
chance of success is planned in the test setup at JPL before the team
commands Spirit to begin driving. That test and subsequent review of its
results are expected to take several weeks.

However, Spirit has been conducting geology and other science even
though embedded at the Troy location.

For example during one week earlier this month a several hour Mossbauer
spectrometer reading was completed by placing the sensor on a soil
target designated "Olive Leaf." On the next Martian day (or sol), a rock
abrasion tool (RAT) calibration and a RAT diagnostics test were
performed, then the instrument turret rotated to place the Alpha
Particle X-ray Spectrometer (APXS) instrument atop the Olive Leaf target
for an overnight data acquisition period.

On the sol after that, the robotic arm elevated the rover's microscopic
imager to take an image of the Martian dust capture magnet on Spirit's
top deck. The APXS instrument was then placed on that magnet for
multi-sol data acquisition to determine the composition of dust that has
recently collected on the rover from a mild dust storm that recently
blew through the area.

The panoramic camera (Pancam) was busy taking 13-filter images of an
area designated the "Scamander Plains" and documentary images of the
rover deck were also made.

The rover's solar arrays had earlier picked up a slight covering of dust
from the passing storm, but a gust of wind later cleared off the array.
This is enabling Spirit to obtain ample power. It is enough that the
rover is run at night, so the power generation and storage during the
day do not cause heating problems. The ample power means Sprit will be
able to survive the coming Martian winter stuck where it is without the
need to move to a sun facing hillside as was the case when Spirit first
arrived at this site.

Total Spirit odometry remains at 4.80 miles since beginning to rove
after landing in early January 2004. The rover's design life was for
only about 900 ft. of driving over about a 90 day period.

On the opposite side of Mars, the rover Opportunity is completing
inspection and sensor data acquisition on an iron meteorite dubbed Block
Island that analysis indicates has been sitting in that same spot on the
Meridiani plane for 3 billion years.

Opportunity placed its instruments (see photo below) on a number of
locations on the 28 in. dia. meteorite that researchers estimate weighs
nearly half a ton. Following contact data acquisition, Opportunity has
been driving around the meteorite stopping at six planned locations to
take a series of Pancam images at each stop.

The meteorite's impact period of 3 billion years ago has been determined
because it would had to have been slowed by a much thicker Martian
atmosphere than has existed on the Mars since that time, about 1.5
billion years after Mars and Earth were formed along with the rest of
the Solar System.

Nothing on Earth survives intact after 3 billion years, because on Earth
unlike Mars, continents are constantly reprocessed by plate tectonics
and continental drift.

At the same time that meteorite landed in the same spot where
Opportunity discovered it, on Earth the surface had just cooled enough
to for the formation of rocks and an initial solid surface. Only one
giant continent existed as plate tectonics were just beginning to
function. The absorption of carbon dioxide by the oceans, however, had
left a high oxygen content in the atmosphere, factors leading to the
formation if initial extremely simple forms of life here.

Study of the Block Island meteorite, one of the great discoveries of the
rover program, can not determine whether anything similar happened on
Mars. But the object landed in that spot on the planet at the same time
life could possibly have begun there too, if it ever did.



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Sun Sep 20 23:02:58 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:02:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Joint Russian and Chinese Mission to Mars Slips to
	2011
Message-ID: <200909210302.n8L32wde006428@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0909/18spirit/

Mars rover Spirit's fate weighed as options dwindle
BY CRAIG COVAULT
SPACEFLIGHT NOW
September 18, 2009

The Mars rover Spirit engineering team trying to free the spacecraft
from the sand trap that halted driving five months ago is becoming more
realistic, if not pessimistic, about whether this marvel of the U.S.
space program will ever rove again.

"Tests on Earth simulating Spirit's predicament on Mars have reinforced
understanding that getting Spirit to rove again will be very difficult,"
says a new rover status report issued by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory.

"There is a very real possibility that Spirit may not be able to get
out," says John Callas, rover project manager.

A remarkable image (below) from the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO)
looking down from 185 mi. above shows Spirit with its swept wing solar
arrays sitting at the 9 o'clock position beside the circular 260 ft.
dia. Home Plate volcanic feature were it became mired in early May.

[Image]
This view of Spirit stuck by Home Plate was taken from the Mars
Reconnaissance Orbiter. Credit: NASA/University of Arizona
 
If a drive out strategy fails, this MRO view shows where Spirit will
stay intact for perhaps millions of years, depending upon decisions made
in the course of the human exploration of Mars in coming centuries.

Spirit became embedded in soft soil at this site called "Troy" more than
five years into a mission on Mars that was originally scheduled to last
for three months. The rover team suspended further driving attempts with
Spirit, while evaluating possibilities from tests performed at JPL
simulating the Troy situation.

Rover managers point out that when Spirit originally became stuck they
said then the event could mark the end of roving. This would turn Spirit
into a still scientifically active but fixed spacecraft for local soil
analysis, panoramic imaging and weather data.

But engineers also showed more optimism earlier when beginning the test
of wheel drive and steering scenarios with JPL's primary test rover.
Those tests are being done in specially formulated Martian-like soil.

Callas adds that a new series of ground tests and computer simulations
are designed to give the rover "very best chance" it can have to move
again.

"We are proceeding very cautiously and exploring all reasonable
options," he says in the JPL assessment. A mid summer plan to use the
ground test data acquired to that point for new maneuver commands for a
drive out attempt in August were shelved when a review (see photo below)
found they would have almost no chance of success. Now the earliest such
drive out attempts will be made is well into October.

Two test rovers, instead of just one, are being used for these extended
tests. One weighs about 150 lb. like the two spacecraft on Mars, and
another more realistic one weighing more than 400 lb. -- the flight
rovers' weight on Earth. One oddity of testing is that the heavier rover
earlier seemed to provide better data on drive options than the rover
duplicating the lighter Martian weight.

The Surface System Testbed Lite, weighs about the same on Earth as
Spirit does on Mars. Unlike the primary test rover called simply the
Surface System Testbed.

The lighter model does not carry science instruments or a robotic arm.
An object that weighs 10 pounds on Earth weighs just 3.8 pounds on Mars,
due to the smaller mass of Mars compared to Earth.

New computer modeling using results from both test rovers is now being
compiled to aid the decision process on how to proceed with drive-out
options on Mars. The planet is now about 139 million mi. from Earth and
temporarily growing closer at about 570 mi. per minute as Mars moves in
its orbit around the Sun relative to Earth.

"The computer modeling will allow us to connect the results from tests
performed in Earth gravity with what to expect from the rover in Mars
gravity," says Callas.

An additional round of testing was added to the September schedule to
gain more detailed assessment of how to move Spirit while avoiding
putting the rover's center of gravity directly over a rock that is
touching or nearly touching the rover's underbelly. A complete "dress
rehearsal" test of the extrication strategy judged to hold the best
chance of success is planned in the test setup at JPL before the team
commands Spirit to begin driving. That test and subsequent review of its
results are expected to take several weeks.

However, Spirit has been conducting geology and other science even
though embedded at the Troy location.

For example during one week earlier this month a several hour Mossbauer
spectrometer reading was completed by placing the sensor on a soil
target designated "Olive Leaf." On the next Martian day (or sol), a rock
abrasion tool (RAT) calibration and a RAT diagnostics test were
performed, then the instrument turret rotated to place the Alpha
Particle X-ray Spectrometer (APXS) instrument atop the Olive Leaf target
for an overnight data acquisition period.

On the sol after that, the robotic arm elevated the rover's microscopic
imager to take an image of the Martian dust capture magnet on Spirit's
top deck. The APXS instrument was then placed on that magnet for
multi-sol data acquisition to determine the composition of dust that has
recently collected on the rover from a mild dust storm that recently
blew through the area.

The panoramic camera (Pancam) was busy taking 13-filter images of an
area designated the "Scamander Plains" and documentary images of the
rover deck were also made.

The rover's solar arrays had earlier picked up a slight covering of dust
from the passing storm, but a gust of wind later cleared off the array.
This is enabling Spirit to obtain ample power. It is enough that the
rover is run at night, so the power generation and storage during the
day do not cause heating problems. The ample power means Sprit will be
able to survive the coming Martian winter stuck where it is without the
need to move to a sun facing hillside as was the case when Spirit first
arrived at this site.

Total Spirit odometry remains at 4.80 miles since beginning to rove
after landing in early January 2004. The rover's design life was for
only about 900 ft. of driving over about a 90 day period.

On the opposite side of Mars, the rover Opportunity is completing
inspection and sensor data acquisition on an iron meteorite dubbed Block
Island that analysis indicates has been sitting in that same spot on the
Meridiani plane for 3 billion years.

Opportunity placed its instruments (see photo below) on a number of
locations on the 28 in. dia. meteorite that researchers estimate weighs
nearly half a ton. Following contact data acquisition, Opportunity has
been driving around the meteorite stopping at six planned locations to
take a series of Pancam images at each stop.

The meteorite's impact period of 3 billion years ago has been determined
because it would had to have been slowed by a much thicker Martian
atmosphere than has existed on the Mars since that time, about 1.5
billion years after Mars and Earth were formed along with the rest of
the Solar System.

Nothing on Earth survives intact after 3 billion years, because on Earth
unlike Mars, continents are constantly reprocessed by plate tectonics
and continental drift.

At the same time that meteorite landed in the same spot where
Opportunity discovered it, on Earth the surface had just cooled enough
to for the formation of rocks and an initial solid surface. Only one
giant continent existed as plate tectonics were just beginning to
function. The absorption of carbon dioxide by the oceans, however, had
left a high oxygen content in the atmosphere, factors leading to the
formation if initial extremely simple forms of life here.

Study of the Block Island meteorite, one of the great discoveries of the
rover program, can not determine whether anything similar happened on
Mars. But the object landed in that spot on the planet at the same time
life could possibly have begun there too, if it ever did.



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Sun Sep 20 22:55:28 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:55:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Joint Russian and Chinese Mission to Mars Slips to
	2011
Message-ID: <200909210255.n8L2tSYo004981@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0909/19phobos/

Joint Russian and Chinese mission to Mars slips to 2011
BY CRAIG COVAULT
SPACEFLIGHT NOW
September 20, 2009

Planetary mission sources say the Russian Space Agency will officially
delay launch of its sample return mission to the Martian moon Phobos
until 2011 because of delays with integration and test of the vehicle in
time to make its originally planned October launch window.

The delay also affects China's first mission to Mars. The 240 lb.
Chinese Yinghou-1 spacecraft was to be mounted atop the Russian
spacecraft for transport to Martian orbit where it was to be released
before the Russian spacecraft landed on Phobos. The mission was to have
been launched on board a Zenit heavy booster from the Baikonur
Cosmodrome between October 6-16.


Credit: Lavochkin
 

Designed with its five primary elements stacked atop one another (see
graphic above) the Russian Phobos mission is one of the most daring
planetary flights ever planned by either the U.S. or former Soviet
Union. It is being built by the Lavochkin Association facility, which
has developed many previous successful Soviet planetary missions and
also builds Russian military spacecraft today.

Those elements include a planetary cruise stage and descent stage with
landing legs atop which are stacked an ascent stage and sample return
capsule. The Chinese spacecraft (not pictured) is to ride on platform
added above the sample capsule, but separated before the landing on Phobos.

The fully integrated spacecraft (see graphic below) has a launch weight
of more than 24,400 lb. including propellants. It is to fly to Mars
about 200 million mi. from Earth then land on the 15 mi. dia. moon that
orbits about 5,800 mi. above Mars.

[Graphic]
Credit: Lavochkin
 
Using a sample apparatus similar to that carried to Earth's moon on
three successful Soviet unmanned lunar landing missions, the Phobos
lander is to drill into the surface of Phobos to obtain a sample from as
deep as 3 ft. below the surface. The apparatus is also designed so
ground controllers using the spacecraft's television system can spot and
pick up rock pebbles for return to earth. Up to about 160 grams (5.5 oz)
of soil and rocks could be collected.

The sample is to be elevated to a soccer ball sized Earth return capsule
mounted atop a coffee table sized Earth return bus. Several days of
sample operations would be conducted before the ascent stage carrying
the Earth return capsule is fired off the lander. It will need only
about 22 fps of velocity to escape the small gravity of the moon.

Once back in the vicinity of Earth, the capsule would be separated from
the ascent stage and reenter the Earth's atmosphere for a parachute
landing and recovery in Australia.

Phobos is believed by many planetary scientists to be a captured
asteroid, but it could also be dotted with dust pockets of Martian
material that could have landed on Phobos after large meteor impacts on
Mars. This means that samples of the body could yield a bonanza of data
on the composition of both asteroids and Mars. That data is of
increasing importance given the emphasis being placed on other future
sample return flights, including possible manned missions, to asteroids
much closer to Earth, as well as Phobos and eventually Mars itself.

U.S. geologist Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St. Louis (a
member of both the NASA Mars rover and Phoenix lander science teams)
says he has been helping the Chinese develop standardized data formats
for the mission. This is so the data from the Chinese orbiter can be
used by international planetary scientists.

The scientific payload on the Chinese spacecraft consists of several
instruments including a camera with 660 ft. resolution to monitor
Martian dust storms. It also carries a plasma package with electron and
ion sensors along with a mass spectrometer, a magnetometer and
radio-occultation sounder.

The shift to 2011 means that the U.S., Russia and China will all be
flying major missions to Mars in that same timeframe. NASA's Mars
Science Laboratory (MSL) rover was also delayed to the late 2011 Martian
launch window because of its own development and test problems.



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Sun Sep 20 23:03:17 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:03:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Joint Russian and Chinese Mission to Mars Slips to
	2011
Message-ID: <200909210303.n8L33HaE006485@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0909/19phobos/

Joint Russian and Chinese mission to Mars slips to 2011
BY CRAIG COVAULT
SPACEFLIGHT NOW
September 20, 2009

Planetary mission sources say the Russian Space Agency will officially
delay launch of its sample return mission to the Martian moon Phobos
until 2011 because of delays with integration and test of the vehicle in
time to make its originally planned October launch window.

The delay also affects China's first mission to Mars. The 240 lb.
Chinese Yinghou-1 spacecraft was to be mounted atop the Russian
spacecraft for transport to Martian orbit where it was to be released
before the Russian spacecraft landed on Phobos. The mission was to have
been launched on board a Zenit heavy booster from the Baikonur
Cosmodrome between October 6-16.


Credit: Lavochkin
 

Designed with its five primary elements stacked atop one another (see
graphic above) the Russian Phobos mission is one of the most daring
planetary flights ever planned by either the U.S. or former Soviet
Union. It is being built by the Lavochkin Association facility, which
has developed many previous successful Soviet planetary missions and
also builds Russian military spacecraft today.

Those elements include a planetary cruise stage and descent stage with
landing legs atop which are stacked an ascent stage and sample return
capsule. The Chinese spacecraft (not pictured) is to ride on platform
added above the sample capsule, but separated before the landing on Phobos.

The fully integrated spacecraft (see graphic below) has a launch weight
of more than 24,400 lb. including propellants. It is to fly to Mars
about 200 million mi. from Earth then land on the 15 mi. dia. moon that
orbits about 5,800 mi. above Mars.

[Graphic]
Credit: Lavochkin
 
Using a sample apparatus similar to that carried to Earth's moon on
three successful Soviet unmanned lunar landing missions, the Phobos
lander is to drill into the surface of Phobos to obtain a sample from as
deep as 3 ft. below the surface. The apparatus is also designed so
ground controllers using the spacecraft's television system can spot and
pick up rock pebbles for return to earth. Up to about 160 grams (5.5 oz)
of soil and rocks could be collected.

The sample is to be elevated to a soccer ball sized Earth return capsule
mounted atop a coffee table sized Earth return bus. Several days of
sample operations would be conducted before the ascent stage carrying
the Earth return capsule is fired off the lander. It will need only
about 22 fps of velocity to escape the small gravity of the moon.

Once back in the vicinity of Earth, the capsule would be separated from
the ascent stage and reenter the Earth's atmosphere for a parachute
landing and recovery in Australia.

Phobos is believed by many planetary scientists to be a captured
asteroid, but it could also be dotted with dust pockets of Martian
material that could have landed on Phobos after large meteor impacts on
Mars. This means that samples of the body could yield a bonanza of data
on the composition of both asteroids and Mars. That data is of
increasing importance given the emphasis being placed on other future
sample return flights, including possible manned missions, to asteroids
much closer to Earth, as well as Phobos and eventually Mars itself.

U.S. geologist Ray Arvidson of Washington University in St. Louis (a
member of both the NASA Mars rover and Phoenix lander science teams)
says he has been helping the Chinese develop standardized data formats
for the mission. This is so the data from the Chinese orbiter can be
used by international planetary scientists.

The scientific payload on the Chinese spacecraft consists of several
instruments including a camera with 660 ft. resolution to monitor
Martian dust storms. It also carries a plasma package with electron and
ion sensors along with a mass spectrometer, a magnetometer and
radio-occultation sounder.

The shift to 2011 means that the U.S., Russia and China will all be
flying major missions to Mars in that same timeframe. NASA's Mars
Science Laboratory (MSL) rover was also delayed to the late 2011 Martian
launch window because of its own development and test problems.



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Sun Sep 20 23:35:06 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:35:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteroids 2010 Conference
Message-ID: <200909210335.n8L3Z65s008851@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



http://www.cora.nwra.com/Meteoroids2010/

Meteroids 2010
Brekenridge, Colorado
An International Conference on Minor Bodies in the Solar System
May 24-28, 2010

*_FIRST ANNOUNCEMENT_*

Call for contributed talks and posters
Early registration DEADLINE TBD
Registration fee increases after TBD

*Please pre-register in order to help us with the planning of the logistics
of the conference*
****Click here to pre-register**** <http://www.cora.nwra.com/Meteoroids2010/Form.html>

This conference will be the seventh in a series of meetings on
meteoroids and related topics, which have been held approximately every 
three years since 1993. In 2007 the meeting was organized by the Institut 
d'Estudis Espacials de Catalunya (IEEC) and the /Institut de Ciencies de
l'Espai (CSIC) /and was held in CosmoCaixa, the science museum of the
Obra Social Fundacio La Caixa in Barcelona, Spain. The topics covered 
during that meeting included the origin, nature, evolution and dynamics of 
solar system minor bodies, with special emphasis on the study of
micrometer- to meter-sized fragments of comets and asteroids.

The 2010 meeting programme is expected to have sessions which cover the
following areas:


- Observational techniques and meteor detection programs

- Meteor shower activity and forecasting

- Dynamics, sources and spatial distribution of meteoroids including
sporadic, swarm and interstellar meteoroids

- Meteoroid interactions with Earth and planetary atmospheres;
ablation, fragmentation, deceleration.

- Atmospheric effects induced by meteors; Physics and chemistry of
meteor interactions processes in the Mesosphere and Lower Thermosphere

- Astromineralogy: properties of meteoroids

- Interrelationships: meteoroids - IDPs - dust - micrometeorites -
meteorites

- Meteoroid flux and impact hazard; Hypervelocity impacts
on the moon and spacecraft

- Meteor studies in astrobiology: organics and delivery process

- New techniques for detections of meteors and fireballs

- Meteor detection including cameras, telescopes, lidar, seismic and
infrasound sensors

- Radar observations and large aperture radars

Both invited and contributed talks, will be included in the program. The
program schedule will encourage informal interchange between the different
research communities.  Deadlines for registration and abstract submission 
for contributed talks and posters will be
announced in the Fall of 2009.



From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Mon Sep 21 00:10:43 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 00:10:43 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 21,
	2009
Message-ID: <c7b.5e0c3023.37e856c3@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_21_2009.html  



From moutinho at bol.com.br  Mon Sep 21 00:27:42 2009
From: moutinho at bol.com.br (=?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A9_Moutinho?=)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 01:27:42 -0300
Subject: [meteorite-list] Patrimonio/Piedade do Bagre
Message-ID: <4ab700bea37db_47529d40eb462a@winter6.tmail>

Hello, Does anyone have a small piece of these meteorites? Contact me: moutinho at bol.com.br

Cheers,
Andre


From tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com  Mon Sep 21 13:05:32 2009
From: tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com (Tom Randall (KB2SMS))
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:05:32 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: New Baby On The Way Sale and New Set Of
	Auctions Started!
Message-ID: <18B12611-4E9B-4DF8-893F-23249F9A3CA0@hvc.rr.com>


Mike,
   Congrats to you and your wife on the new little one!


Tom






From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 21 15:56:46 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:56:46 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] New Australian fall
Message-ID: <COL108-W57D6932626A469E3AE60C19BDD0@phx.gbl>


Carl E.

Did you ever get a response to your question on whether aubrites could possibly come from the Earth? Very interesting thoughts, to be sure, but I believe Sterling inferred that as a possibility.? I also believe his last sentence says it all, I guess.

As a side note, if aubrites did come from the Earth, What is the probability or possibility that they would contain some fossils? Microbes, sea shells, plant life...? Even water? If no fossils would that be compelling enough that they did not come from Earth?

Carl



Carl E wrote:

>Sterling,
This may not surprise you but, I did not know that aubrites plotted on the same
oxygen slope line as Earth and our Moon.
Does this mean that Aubrites could possibly be meteorites from Earth? I believe
it was decided earlier they would be called "terrane"meteorites?...


Sterling wrote:
>...For example, aubrites and lunar achondrites
> plot on the terrestrial ratio slope, meaning that
> the Earth and the Moon and the Wherever-the-
> aubrites-came-from all have the SAME oxygen
> ratios...

and,

>...As usual, too little data for ANY conclusion. The
> connection with the Bottke study is likely purely
> hypothetical. In other words, a guess. There's nothing
> you can say about nothing.
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?.
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009

From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Mon Sep 21 16:00:24 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:00:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Cassini Reveals New Ring Quirks,
	Shadows During Saturn Equinox
Message-ID: <200909212000.n8LK0Ow6016052@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



Sept. 21, 2009

Dwayne C. Brown 
Headquarters, Washington 
202-358-1726 
dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov 

Jia-Rui C. Cook 
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. 
818-354-0850 
jia-rui.c.cook at jpl.nasa.gov 

RELEASE: 09-217

CASSINI REVEALS NEW RING QUIRKS, SHADOWS DURING SATURN EQUINOX

PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA scientists are marveling over the extent of 
ruffles and dust clouds revealed in the rings of Saturn during the 
planet's equinox last month. Scientists once thought the rings were 
almost completely flat, but new images reveal the heights of some 
newly discovered bumps in the rings are as high as the Rocky 
Mountains. NASA released the images Monday. 

"It's like putting on 3-D glasses and seeing the third dimension for 
the first time," said Bob Pappalardo, Cassini project scientist at 
NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. "This is among 
the most important events Cassini has shown us." 

On Aug. 11, sunlight hit Saturn's rings exactly edge-on, performing a 
celestial magic trick that made them all but disappear. The spectacle 
occurs twice during each orbit Saturn makes around the sun, which 
takes approximately 10,759 Earth days, or about 29.7 Earth years. 
Earth experiences a similar equinox phenomenon twice a year; the 
autumnal equinox will occur Sept. 22, when the sun will shine 
directly over Earth's equator. 

For about a week, scientists used the Cassini orbiter to look at puffy 
parts of Saturn's rings caught in white glare from the low-angle 
lighting. Scientists have known about vertical clumps sticking out of 
the rings in a handful of places, but they could not directly measure 
the height and breadth of the undulations and ridges until Saturn's 
equinox revealed their shadows. 

"The biggest surprise was to see so many places of vertical relief 
above and below the otherwise paper-thin rings," said Linda Spilker, 
deputy project scientist at JPL. "To understand what we are seeing 
will take more time, but the images and data will help develop a more 
complete understanding of how old the rings might be and how they are 
evolving." 

The chunks of ice that make up the main rings spread out 85,000 miles 
from the center of Saturn, but they had been thought to be only 
around 30 feet thick in the main rings, known as A, B, C, and D. 

In the new images, particles seemed to pile up in vertical formations 
in each of the rings. Rippling corrugations -- previously seen by 
Cassini to extend approximately 500 miles in the innermost D ring -- 
appear to undulate out to a total of 11,000 miles through the 
neighboring C ring to the B ring. 

The heights of some of the newly discovered bumps are comparable to 
the elevations of the Rocky Mountains. One ridge of icy ring 
particles, whipped up by the gravitational pull of Saturn's moon 
Daphnis as it travels through the plane of the rings, looms as high 
as 2.5 miles. It is the tallest vertical wall seen within the rings. 

"We thought the plane of the rings was no taller than two stories of a 
modern-day building and instead we've come across walls more than two 
miles high," said Carolyn Porco, Cassini imaging team leader at the 
Space Science Institute in Boulder, Colo. "Isn't that the most 
outrageous thing you could imagine? It truly is like something out of 
science fiction." 

Scientists also were intrigued by bright streaks in two different 
rings that appear to be clouds of dust kicked up in collisions 
between small space debris and ring particles. Understanding the rate 
and locations of impacts will help build better models of 
contamination and erosion in the rings and refine estimates of their 
age. The collision clouds were easier to see under the low-lighting 
conditions of equinox than under normal lighting conditions. 

At the same time Cassini was snapping visible-light photographs of 
Saturn's rings, the Composite Infrared Spectrometer instrument was 
taking the rings' temperatures. During equinox, the rings cooled to 
the lowest temperature ever recorded. The A ring dropped down to a 
frosty 382 degrees below zero Fahrenheit. Studying ring temperatures 
at equinox will help scientists better understand the sizes and other 
characteristics of the ring particles. 

The Cassini spacecraft has been observing Saturn, its moons and rings 
since it entered the planet's orbit in 2004. The spacecraft's 
instruments have discovered new rings and moons and have improved our 
understanding of Saturn's ring system. 

The Cassini-Huygens mission is a cooperative project of NASA and the 
European and Italian Space Agencies. JPL manages the mission for the 
Science Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters in Washington. JPL 
also designed, developed and assembled the Cassini orbiter and its 
two onboard cameras. The imaging team is based at the Space Science 
Institute. The Composite Infrared Spectrometer team is based at 
NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. 

To view Cassini images of the equinox and for more information about 
the mission, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/cassini 

NASA Television's Video File also will air the images. For downlink, 
scheduling information and streaming video, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/ntv 
	
-end-



From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Mon Sep 21 16:32:08 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:32:08 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] What is and isn't a Widmanstatten Pattern was
 Cooling rates
In-Reply-To: <961119.32082.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <961119.32082.qm@web55208.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AB7E2C8.5030302@usgs.gov>

I'd like to correct what I said two weeks back about alloys.  I've 
talked with a specialist (Joe Goldstein) and he clarified the 
terminology for me as material scientists would use it.

An "alloy" refers to a batch of metal containing more than one element 
(only one of which needs to be a metallic element).  The term carries no 
implications about how the mixture formed or what its structure is. 

The term "alloy" should not be used to refer to a specific phase that 
crystallizes from an alloy or is present in the alloy.  Taenite and 
kamacite are not alloys.  They are phases (minerals). Therefore, 
hundreds of websites (including some professional ones) use the term 
incorrectly.  An iron meteorite IS an alloy, even if it only contains 
one phase like taenite. Alloys can and often are composed of crystalline 
phases.

Jeff

Mr EMan wrote:
> --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov> wrote:
>  <<Most of the metallic minerals in iron meteorites are described as
> "alloys" in that they are composed of various metals combined together.>> 
>
> I understood the distinction was that the Fe Ni formed a "chemical compound" not merely a mixture like copper and tin to make brass but even brass can form crystalline plates so that may be a bad example. It was my understanding that were it not for the mineral structure The Fe-Ni would be called an alloy.  Agreed that it is frequently discussed in terms of alloy.
>
>  <<It does not happen as the metal cools from the liquid state and solidifies.>>
>
> I stand corrected, 30 years is a lot of facts to keep in just one's head. I did recall correctly that there is a temperature range and below which all translocation stops. Seems off the top of my head it is 800?C.
>
> <<Goldstein and coworkers have shown that the process is controlled by the Fe-Ni-P phase diagram>>. 
>
> I have long suspected that phosphorus was a key component in the process--likely as a catalyst.  The Schreibersite seems to exist largely at the boundaries in thin laminae even surrounding trolite nodules.  I look forward to reading Goldstein's paper.
>
> Thanks again,
> Elton
>
>   


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA




From jgrossman at usgs.gov  Mon Sep 21 16:22:06 2009
From: jgrossman at usgs.gov (Jeff Grossman)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:22:06 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] What is and isn't a Widmanstatten Pattern was
 Cooling rates
In-Reply-To: <492917.339.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <492917.339.qm@web55202.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4AB7E06E.1020202@usgs.gov>

I think there are some misconceptions here, although this is not my
specialty.  Most of the metallic minerals in iron meteorites are
described as "alloys" in that they are composed of various metals
combined together.  These alloys have specific structures, e.g., the
metal atoms in kamacite are arranged in a body-centered cubic structure
and those in taenite are face-centered cubic.  The minerals Kamacite and
taenite are solid solutions of mainly Fe and Ni which can have a range
of compositions without altering the basic structure.  Tetrataenite is
another alloy, but this time with a fixed composition (FeNi) and an
ordered structure.

Formation of the Widmanstatten structure is pretty well understood.  It
does not happen as the metal cools from the liquid state and
solidifies.  That process leads to the formation of just taenite.  Only
when the alloy cools to much lower temperature, after it is completely
solid, can the Widmanstatten pattern form.   High pressures are not
involved. Goldstein and coworkers have shown that the process is
controlled by the Fe-Ni-P phase diagram.  Depending on the exact
composition of the alloy, a variety of phase transformations take place
over a range of temperatures, ultimately leading to the formation of
kamacite and taenite. Composition and cooling rate play roles in
determining in the structures we now observe.  You can read about it in:
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/2005M%26PS...40..239Y

jeff

Mr EMan wrote:
> We had a metallurgist on the list a few years back that insisted Widmanstatten patterns were found everywhere and posted some micrographs supporting his assertion.  As I recall he got very ill with us when we pointed out why, what he had photos of, weren't Widmanstatten patterns. It was focused on a physical "casual" similarity not "causal" chemistry.
>
> Once again Widmanstatten patterns aren't stress fractures nor alloy specific patterns. I further assert that metal in meteorites is NOT an alloy in that the nickel is in a specific locus within a molecule. It is therefore not a mixture but a compound, chemically speaking.
>
> Widmanstatten patterns are a cross-sectional view of crystal latices that result from the migration of nickel atoms over eons into two distinct unusual, zoned, crystalline arrangements. Bandwidth is actually plate thickness. The migration is chemically driven while the metal is molten and only occurs in a specific range of temperatures. This is a subtle but distinct difference. This migration may even be a molecule by molecule transfer of nickel atoms which takes millions of years to clear out a 3mm band. This is to say a nickel atom may move in one side of a molecule and forces the central nickel atom to the face and lacking stability is ejected out the other side--maybe not, as the actual displacement/sorting is still an enigma.  The nickel iron content may assemble from a single form as it accretes and represent a move to homogeneity interupted when the mass ran out of thermal energy.  It may all start out as taenite and part of it converts to
>  kamacite or vice versa. Who really knows? 
>
> I fully believe collisions would impede if not stop the process-- not speed it up.  It is easy and natural to try to infer a similar pattern might be from a similar process but the only similarity is in low contrast photographs when the scale is ignored.  
>
> Elton
>
> --- On Sun, 9/6/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Cooling rates
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 1:47 PM
>> Hi Steve, all - 
>>
>> I don't think they're due to repeated collisions. 
>>
>> Suppose that we have molten iron/nickle under incredible
>> compression, which is then almost instantaneously released.
>>     
>
>   
>> 250 parent bodies seems like a lot. Perhaps instead there
>> was more differentiation within fewer parent bodies.
>>
>> Ed
>>     
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   


-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From leighannedelray at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 18:45:56 2009
From: leighannedelray at gmail.com (Leigh Anne DelRay)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:45:56 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Shivalingams impactites?
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890909201132t7cf4e170x40707067c0d0c39f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU137-W477BBCD94BA726F8EF04BD6DE0@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890909201132t7cf4e170x40707067c0d0c39f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5e97e2850909211545h611facc2ma1cd1a2dd76fee66@mail.gmail.com>

Crypto-crystalline quartz (I think)

On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Mel,
> Shiva Lingams are ordinary stones that have been polished by people
> into their respective shapes to create the religiously symbolic stones
> that people so seem to like. ?They are generally made of ordinary
> rocks with nothing really special about them - unless you believe in
> their religious/spiritual nature. ?I suppose you could have one made
> out of impactite, or even a meteorite, but I have *never* seen one
> made of said materials. ?They're typically made of that odd
> dichromatic sedimentary stone (at least I'm fairly sure it's
> sedimentary given the texture), but I'm not exactly sure as to what it
> is.
> Regards,
> Jason
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Melanie Matthews
> <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Good morning list.
>>
>> I was told once by the store owner of a local rock shop that shivalingams are the result of meteor impacts in India... think I recall her claim was backed by info from a rock/mineral book that she uses for reference. Is this true? I haven't found anything on google that mentions anything on that..
>>
>> Regards
>> - Mel
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> New! Open Messenger faster on the MSN homepage
>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677405
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 18:56:24 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:56:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
Message-ID: <332740.69929.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I know that most businesses never hear anything but complaints, and I've expressed my share on this list too.

I just want to let everyone know of a dealer going above and beyond, WAY above, and offer some praise here instead of complaint.

I ordered a small slice of Gujba, just a couple of grams, for my type set from Eric Twelker a short while ago. When it hadn't arrived, I inquired if it had been sent and when, just to make sure it hadn't gotten lost in the mail. He responded quickly that he was away but would check on it as soon as he returned home. Finding he had made a mistake, he apologized that he hadn't yet sent it and said it'd be on its way that day. That was on Saturday.

I just went out to the mailbox to find my slice already delivered with $21+ postage on the envelope! I'm still shocked. Totally unexpected and in my case, unnecessary. He could have sent it via normal 1st class mail and I would have been happy with that, but he made the extra effort and loss of profit to make a very small mistake in mind very much more than right.

Eric's website

http://www.meteoritemarket.com/mmhomef.htm

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081




      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 19:30:06 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:30:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Idle speculation on panspermia
Message-ID: <415584.6803.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi all - 

One of the reasons why panspermia etc. play such a role in debate regards 
some peoples' obsessions with manned flight to Mars, and the problem of back-contamination. 

Bottom line: we don't know. Other bottom line: it's not all that important to know right now.

I read with frustration and anger reports of NASA proposing to spend $4 billion on the question of life on Europa, while spending as near $0 as they can get away with on finding the next piece of space crud headed our way.

Could someone fire Weiler now? Tomorrow morning?

E.P.


      


From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 19:47:42 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:47:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] LARGE COMET GIVES BIRTH TO SMALL COMETS
In-Reply-To: <5B1F5226CAED47579C1B478DE8904BB1@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <30063.19353.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Sterling - 

Oh Joy! - more junk which needs to be watched out for, which NASA will continue to ignore.

While the explosive scaling laws are tough and rough, and I've had a stroke, my best current guess is that cometissimals are around 30 m diameter or so, based on the Rio Curaaca and Rupunini impacts. 

(Tunguska would be 2 cometissimals accreted.)

With age the cometissimals further accrete/condense, depending on the time of their first agregation, which times appear to have a considerable spread. 

Another fragmentation mechanism besides solar energy may be nearby supernova radiation, which perhaps also provide injection energy.

Maybe, appears, possibly, but certainly no one gets any money from NASA to work it out.

Would someone fire Weiler now?

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

--- On Wed, 9/16/09, Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: LARGE COMET GIVES BIRTH TO SMALL COMETS
> To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Cc: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Date: Wednesday, September 16, 2009, 11:38 PM
> ???I've always assumed
> that small comet fragments came from the complete breakup of
> the parent comet (didn't you?). But it appears
> that comets can produce many, many small comets without
> suffering any apparent harm.
> Or maybe this is the way comets break up...
> slowly?
> 
> Sterling K. Webb
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/090915-mini-comets.html
> 
> Comet Outburst Spawns Mini-Comets posted: 15 September
> 2009
> 
> A comet recently spewed out a cluster of mini comets in a
> huge outburst that was the largest ever witnessed by
> astronomers.
> 
> A team of researchers began observing the comet 17P/Holmes
> in October 2007, after it was reported that the object,
> about 2.2 miles wide (3.6 km wide), had brightened by a
> million times in less than a day. 
> UCLA researcher Rachel Stevenson and colleagues noted
> multiple fragments flying rapidly away from the comet's
> nucleus. They continued observing for several weeks after
> the outburst using the Canada-France-Hawaii Telescope in
> Hawaii and watched as the dust cloud ejected by the comet
> grew to be larger than the sun.
> 
> The astronomers examined a sequence of images taken over
> nine nights using a digital filter that enhances small
> features. They found numerous tiny objects that moved away
> from the nucleus at speeds of up to 280 mph (125 meters per
> second). These objects were too bright to simply be bare
> rocks, but instead were more like mini comets, creating
> their own dust clouds as ice on their surfaces sublimated
> directly to vapor.
> 
> "Initially we thought this comet was unique simply because
> of the scale of the outburst," Stevenson said. "But we soon
> realized that the aftermath of the outburst showed unusual
> features, such as these fast-moving fragments, that have not
> been detected around other comets."
> 
> Although the outburst was impressive in the telescope
> images, it wasn't visible to the naked eye.
> 
> Scientists aren't sure of the exact cause of the outburst.
> Possibly, pressure inside the comet built up as it moved
> closer to the sun, until eventually part of the surface
> broke away, releasing a huge cloud of dust and gas, as well
> as larger fragments.
> 
> Even after ejecting mini comets, the solid nucleus of comet
> Holmes survived and continued on its orbit, seemingly
> unperturbed. 
> Holmes takes about 6 years to circle the sun, and travels
> between the inner edge of the asteroid belt to beyond
> Jupiter. The comet is now moving away from the sun but will
> return to its closest approach in 2014, when astronomers
> will examine it for signs of further outbursts.
> 
> 
> 


      


From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 19:41:34 2009
From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:41:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
In-Reply-To: <332740.69929.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <33692.84183.qm@web55203.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I too, have nothing but good things to say about Eric. When I first got into meteorites, I bought a lunar (DaG400) and a martian (SaU008) from him.
These are both major outlays for a noob and I(partly due to dyslexia) entered his paypal address incorrectly. He was patient, understanding, communicative and ultimately I got it right and got my samples in first rate condition.
He's helped me in other ways too regarding our passion since then, too.
If I ever make it to Alaska, I'd love to meet up with him and buy him a drink.
He's a top bloke and while we're in the good-will mode, I'd like to thank him for everything he's done for me and my attempts to forward meteorites to kids in Scotland.
He's held in the highest regard in the UK.

Rob McC
--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Richard Kowalski <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
> To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 11:56 PM
> I know that most businesses never
> hear anything but complaints, and I've expressed my share on
> this list too.
> 
> I just want to let everyone know of a dealer going above
> and beyond, WAY above, and offer some praise here instead of
> complaint.
> 
> I ordered a small slice of Gujba, just a couple of grams,
> for my type set from Eric Twelker a short while ago. When it
> hadn't arrived, I inquired if it had been sent and when,
> just to make sure it hadn't gotten lost in the mail. He
> responded quickly that he was away but would check on it as
> soon as he returned home. Finding he had made a mistake, he
> apologized that he hadn't yet sent it and said it'd be on
> its way that day. That was on Saturday.
> 
> I just went out to the mailbox to find my slice already
> delivered with $21+ postage on the envelope! I'm still
> shocked. Totally unexpected and in my case, unnecessary. He
> could have sent it via normal 1st class mail and I would
> have been happy with that, but he made the extra effort and
> loss of profit to make a very small mistake in mind very
> much more than right.
> 
> Eric's website
> 
> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/mmhomef.htm
> 
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 21 19:54:57 2009
From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:54:57 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Idle speculation on panspermia
In-Reply-To: <415584.6803.qm@web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <112729.3571.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I agree, at least in part.

Panspermia may not be the motivation to explore Europa and in truth, a decent sub-surface examination of that world will require a far greater commitment than $4Bn.
The NEO programme needs a far greater commitment, as does any programme to counter such a threat that an NEO amy pose.

I suppose it's all a question of budget. I am angry at the money put in to shoring up the banks that have put our economy on the verge of collapse, particularly since they seem unrepentant and want to use the money we have gifted them to return to earning more of the fat earnings they got before the collapse.

The thought that the Constellation programme risks being shelved because of the recent problems is abhorent. And in the UK we look at a terrible situation for much of our future at the mercy of commerce.

As a child, I'd hoped that mankind would begin colonising the Solar System. Thanks to recent events, I look like having ALL my dreams for the future of humanity crushed. Not just for my lifetime but for the 2-3 generations to follow me. All because of the greed of a handful of people who don't realise that a single rock from space could wipe out everything they or their progeny could have.
And we seem powerless to do anything about it.

In 100Ma, some species will be wondering how we managed to end up extinct.

Rob McC

--- On Tue, 9/22/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Idle speculation on panspermia
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 12:30 AM
> Hi all - 
> 
> One of the reasons why panspermia etc. play such a role in
> debate regards 
> some peoples' obsessions with manned flight to Mars, and
> the problem of back-contamination. 
> 
> Bottom line: we don't know. Other bottom line: it's not all
> that important to know right now.
> 
> I read with frustration and anger reports of NASA proposing
> to spend $4 billion on the question of life on Europa, while
> spending as near $0 as they can get away with on finding the
> next piece of space crud headed our way.
> 
> Could someone fire Weiler now? Tomorrow morning?
> 
> E.P.
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com  Mon Sep 21 19:56:54 2009
From: LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com (LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:56:54 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
Message-ID: <c93.5137d981.37e96cc6@aol.com>

Good evening Folks,

I'd like to sincerely  echo the sentiments of both Rob and Richard.  In the 
several transactions,  and many communications I've had with Eric Twelker 
over the years, I've  found him to be the honest, and informative meteorite 
expert/dealer that helps  makes our hobby/vocation/avocation such a joy.

Best regards,

Paul  Martyn
Savannah, GA

In a message dated 2009/09/21 7:48:29 P.M. Eastern  Daylight Time, 
rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com writes:
I too, have nothing but good  things to say about Eric. When I first got 
into meteorites, I bought a lunar  (DaG400) and a martian (SaU008) from him.
These are both major outlays for a  noob and I(partly due to dyslexia) 
entered his paypal address incorrectly. He  was patient, understanding, 
communicative and ultimately I got it right and got  my samples in first rate 
condition.
He's helped me in other ways too  regarding our passion since then, too.
If I ever make it to Alaska, I'd love  to meet up with him and buy him a 
drink.
He's a top bloke and while we're in  the good-will mode, I'd like to thank 
him for everything he's done for me and my  attempts to forward meteorites 
to kids in Scotland.
He's held in the highest  regard in the UK.

Rob McC
--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Richard Kowalski  <damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Richard Kowalski  <damoclid at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit  is more than due
> To: "meteorite list"  <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Monday, September 21,  2009, 11:56 PM
> I know that most businesses never
> hear anything  but complaints, and I've expressed my share on
> this list too.
>  
> I just want to let everyone know of a dealer going above
> and  beyond, WAY above, and offer some praise here instead of
>  complaint.
> 
> I ordered a small slice of Gujba, just a couple of  grams,
> for my type set from Eric Twelker a short while ago. When  it
> hadn't arrived, I inquired if it had been sent and when,
> just  to make sure it hadn't gotten lost in the mail. He
> responded quickly  that he was away but would check on it as
> soon as he returned home.  Finding he had made a mistake, he
> apologized that he hadn't yet sent it  and said it'd be on
> its way that day. That was on Saturday.
>  
> I just went out to the mailbox to find my slice already
>  delivered with $21+ postage on the envelope! I'm still
> shocked. Totally  unexpected and in my case, unnecessary. He
> could have sent it via normal  1st class mail and I would
> have been happy with that, but he made the  extra effort and
> loss of profit to make a very small mistake in mind  very
> much more than right.
> 
> Eric's website
>  
> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/mmhomef.htm
> 
> --
>  Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA  #1081
> 
> 
> 
>  
>       
>  ______________________________________________
>  http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
>  Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>  http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>  



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list  mailing  list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list   



From grf2 at comcast.net  Mon Sep 21 20:12:19 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:12:19 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
References: <332740.69929.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E0773AB215AA4964B8DA92713ED45EB1@ASUS>

Eric rules

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Richard Kowalski" <damoclid at yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:56 PM
To: "meteorite list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due

> I know that most businesses never hear anything but complaints, and I've 
> expressed my share on this list too.
>
> I just want to let everyone know of a dealer going above and beyond, WAY 
> above, and offer some praise here instead of complaint.
>
> I ordered a small slice of Gujba, just a couple of grams, for my type set 
> from Eric Twelker a short while ago. When it hadn't arrived, I inquired if 
> it had been sent and when, just to make sure it hadn't gotten lost in the 
> mail. He responded quickly that he was away but would check on it as soon 
> as he returned home. Finding he had made a mistake, he apologized that he 
> hadn't yet sent it and said it'd be on its way that day. That was on 
> Saturday.
>
> I just went out to the mailbox to find my slice already delivered with 
> $21+ postage on the envelope! I'm still shocked. Totally unexpected and in 
> my case, unnecessary. He could have sent it via normal 1st class mail and 
> I would have been happy with that, but he made the extra effort and loss 
> of profit to make a very small mistake in mind very much more than right.
>
> Eric's website
>
> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/mmhomef.htm
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From grf2 at comcast.net  Mon Sep 21 20:14:40 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:14:40 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] ALERT-86g Millbillillie STOLEN from Blaine Reed
References: <20090920190434.6hr67fky8cc4o088@webmail.mhmeteorites.com>
Message-ID: <F010CBDB897E4781AA6F1C41D811DC75@ASUS>

Bad things happening to good people Sucks! Sorry for your loss.

--------------------------------------------------
From: <mail at mhmeteorites.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:04 PM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] ALERT-86g Millbillillie STOLEN from Blaine Reed

> Hi everyone:
> Some not-so-good news from the Denver show.  Sometime before 1:30 PM  
> today (9/20) and after Blaine closed yesterday (9/19), an 86 gram  
> Millbillillie end cut was stolen from Blaine's room.  The piece  
> belonged to me and was in the cabinet near the entrance to his room.   
> If anyone has information about this specimen please contact me or  
> Blaine ASAP.
> 
> Pictures of the specimen can be seen here:
> <http://www.mhmeteorites.com/images/millbillillie_86.jpg>
> 
> Thanks for your time.
> Matt Morgan
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 


From grf2 at comcast.net  Mon Sep 21 20:20:09 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:20:09 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
	September 21, 2009
References: <c7b.5e0c3023.37e856c3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <FFD55A90E31D4CC3BD34D1F1C03987F0@ASUS>

There's ONE that pretty much theft proof.

--------------------------------------------------
From: <SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:10 AM
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 
21,2009

> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_21_2009.html
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From grf2 at comcast.net  Mon Sep 21 20:23:51 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:23:51 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: New Baby On The Way Sale and New Set
	OfAuctions Started!
References: <18B12611-4E9B-4DF8-893F-23249F9A3CA0@hvc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <56E617846C2A47D2B77A8306CD296A2F@ASUS>

Aye aye to that Michael

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tom Randall (KB2SMS)" <tommy2005 at hvc.rr.com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 1:05 PM
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD: New Baby On The Way Sale and New Set 
OfAuctions Started!

>
> Mike,
>   Congrats to you and your wife on the new little one!
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From Metorman46 at aol.com  Mon Sep 21 20:19:45 2009
From: Metorman46 at aol.com (Metorman46 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:19:45 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
Message-ID: <c7d.557fb81f.37e97221@aol.com>

Hello Richard;

If you continue to do  business with Eric Twelker you will find that he is 
as honest and reliable as  you stated in your post and very much more.My 
experience over many years has  shown me that and i highly respect him too.

We have many such dealers in  our community an i like you really appreciate 
their honesty and integrity.Good  luck in your collecting and searching for 
the ellusive stone if you persue such  stones in the fields.

Best Regards;Herman Archer IMCA # 2770  



From grf2 at comcast.net  Mon Sep 21 20:29:38 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:29:38 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Shivalingams impactites?
References: <BLU137-W477BBCD94BA726F8EF04BD6DE0@phx.gbl><93aaac890909201132t7cf4e170x40707067c0d0c39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<5e97e2850909211545h611facc2ma1cd1a2dd76fee66@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6F067BF9C2644D15BB9C8F2060DD75B4@ASUS>

Quartz ain't sedimentary

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Leigh Anne DelRay" <leighannedelray at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:45 PM
To: "Jason Utas" <meteoritekid at gmail.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shivalingams impactites?

> Crypto-crystalline quartz (I think)
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>> Hello Mel,
>> Shiva Lingams are ordinary stones that have been polished by people
>> into their respective shapes to create the religiously symbolic stones
>> that people so seem to like. They are generally made of ordinary
>> rocks with nothing really special about them - unless you believe in
>> their religious/spiritual nature. I suppose you could have one made
>> out of impactite, or even a meteorite, but I have *never* seen one
>> made of said materials. They're typically made of that odd
>> dichromatic sedimentary stone (at least I'm fairly sure it's
>> sedimentary given the texture), but I'm not exactly sure as to what it
>> is.
>> Regards,
>> Jason
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Melanie Matthews
>> <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good morning list.
>>>
>>> I was told once by the store owner of a local rock shop that 
>>> shivalingams are the result of meteor impacts in India... think I recall 
>>> her claim was backed by info from a rock/mineral book that she uses for 
>>> reference. Is this true? I haven't found anything on google that 
>>> mentions anything on that..
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> - Mel
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> New! Open Messenger faster on the MSN homepage
>>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677405
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From grf2 at comcast.net  Mon Sep 21 20:31:39 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:31:39 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Idle speculation on panspermia
References: <112729.3571.qm@web55207.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <32E7075F09A64C30B33F705D4D8B21E7@ASUS>

You Never Know?!

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 7:54 PM
To: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Idle speculation on panspermia

> I agree, at least in part.
>
> Panspermia may not be the motivation to explore Europa and in truth, a 
> decent sub-surface examination of that world will require a far greater 
> commitment than $4Bn.
> The NEO programme needs a far greater commitment, as does any programme to 
> counter such a threat that an NEO amy pose.
>
> I suppose it's all a question of budget. I am angry at the money put in to 
> shoring up the banks that have put our economy on the verge of collapse, 
> particularly since they seem unrepentant and want to use the money we have 
> gifted them to return to earning more of the fat earnings they got before 
> the collapse.
>
> The thought that the Constellation programme risks being shelved because 
> of the recent problems is abhorent. And in the UK we look at a terrible 
> situation for much of our future at the mercy of commerce.
>
> As a child, I'd hoped that mankind would begin colonising the Solar 
> System. Thanks to recent events, I look like having ALL my dreams for the 
> future of humanity crushed. Not just for my lifetime but for the 2-3 
> generations to follow me. All because of the greed of a handful of people 
> who don't realise that a single rock from space could wipe out everything 
> they or their progeny could have.
> And we seem powerless to do anything about it.
>
> In 100Ma, some species will be wondering how we managed to end up extinct.
>
> Rob McC
>
> --- On Tue, 9/22/09, E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Idle speculation on panspermia
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Tuesday, September 22, 2009, 12:30 AM
>> Hi all -
>>
>> One of the reasons why panspermia etc. play such a role in
>> debate regards
>> some peoples' obsessions with manned flight to Mars, and
>> the problem of back-contamination.
>>
>> Bottom line: we don't know. Other bottom line: it's not all
>> that important to know right now.
>>
>> I read with frustration and anger reports of NASA proposing
>> to spend $4 billion on the question of life on Europa, while
>> spending as near $0 as they can get away with on finding the
>> next piece of space crud headed our way.
>>
>> Could someone fire Weiler now? Tomorrow morning?
>>
>> E.P.
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 20:10:59 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:10:59 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
In-Reply-To: <c93.5137d981.37e96cc6@aol.com>
References: <c93.5137d981.37e96cc6@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550909211710m434885e2gc99a76a93d7b0489@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like to jump on the pro-Twelker bandwagon.  I've bought many
specimens from him and I plan on purchasing many more from him in the
future.  :)



On 9/21/09, LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com <LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com> wrote:
> Good evening Folks,
>
> I'd like to sincerely  echo the sentiments of both Rob and Richard.  In the
> several transactions,  and many communications I've had with Eric Twelker
> over the years, I've  found him to be the honest, and informative meteorite
> expert/dealer that helps  makes our hobby/vocation/avocation such a joy.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Paul  Martyn
> Savannah, GA
>
> In a message dated 2009/09/21 7:48:29 P.M. Eastern  Daylight Time,
> rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com writes:
> I too, have nothing but good  things to say about Eric. When I first got
> into meteorites, I bought a lunar  (DaG400) and a martian (SaU008) from him.
> These are both major outlays for a  noob and I(partly due to dyslexia)
> entered his paypal address incorrectly. He  was patient, understanding,
> communicative and ultimately I got it right and got  my samples in first
> rate
> condition.
> He's helped me in other ways too  regarding our passion since then, too.
> If I ever make it to Alaska, I'd love  to meet up with him and buy him a
> drink.
> He's a top bloke and while we're in  the good-will mode, I'd like to thank
> him for everything he's done for me and my  attempts to forward meteorites
> to kids in Scotland.
> He's held in the highest  regard in the UK.
>
> Rob McC
> --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Richard Kowalski  <damoclid at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Richard Kowalski  <damoclid at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit  is more than due
>> To: "meteorite list"  <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Date: Monday, September 21,  2009, 11:56 PM
>> I know that most businesses never
>> hear anything  but complaints, and I've expressed my share on
>> this list too.
>>
>> I just want to let everyone know of a dealer going above
>> and  beyond, WAY above, and offer some praise here instead of
>>  complaint.
>>
>> I ordered a small slice of Gujba, just a couple of  grams,
>> for my type set from Eric Twelker a short while ago. When  it
>> hadn't arrived, I inquired if it had been sent and when,
>> just  to make sure it hadn't gotten lost in the mail. He
>> responded quickly  that he was away but would check on it as
>> soon as he returned home.  Finding he had made a mistake, he
>> apologized that he hadn't yet sent it  and said it'd be on
>> its way that day. That was on Saturday.
>>
>> I just went out to the mailbox to find my slice already
>>  delivered with $21+ postage on the envelope! I'm still
>> shocked. Totally  unexpected and in my case, unnecessary. He
>> could have sent it via normal  1st class mail and I would
>> have been happy with that, but he made the  extra effort and
>> loss of profit to make a very small mistake in mind  very
>> much more than right.
>>
>> Eric's website
>>
>> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/mmhomef.htm
>>
>> --
>>  Richard Kowalski
>> http://fullmoonphotography.net
>> IMCA  #1081
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  ______________________________________________
>>  http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>  Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>  http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list  mailing  list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 20:53:55 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:53:55 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Shivalingams impactites?
In-Reply-To: <6F067BF9C2644D15BB9C8F2060DD75B4@ASUS>
References: <BLU137-W477BBCD94BA726F8EF04BD6DE0@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890909201132t7cf4e170x40707067c0d0c39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<5e97e2850909211545h611facc2ma1cd1a2dd76fee66@mail.gmail.com>
	<6F067BF9C2644D15BB9C8F2060DD75B4@ASUS>
Message-ID: <93aaac890909211753n12974542w2c418f40501f6dae@mail.gmail.com>

True.  Quartz is a mineral, and can be deposited in any number of ways.
In this case, based on gross physical appearance, I'd say the shiva
lingams are likely made of a type of jasper, but I'm not qualified to
tell.  Given the fact that they're definitely more coarse-grained than
other varieties like chalcedony and agate, I'm not even sure
'cryptocrystalline is the correct way to describe them - perhaps
someone else who has a background in geology/mineralogy and is
familiar with shiva lingams can comment here.
The layering that can be seen in them is reminiscent of banded
claystones; that's why I said sedimentary, but I could well be wrong.
Jason

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Jerry Flaherty <grf2 at comcast.net> wrote:
> Quartz ain't sedimentary
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Leigh Anne DelRay" <leighannedelray at gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:45 PM
> To: "Jason Utas" <meteoritekid at gmail.com>;
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shivalingams impactites?
>
>> Crypto-crystalline quartz (I think)
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Mel,
>>> Shiva Lingams are ordinary stones that have been polished by people
>>> into their respective shapes to create the religiously symbolic stones
>>> that people so seem to like. They are generally made of ordinary
>>> rocks with nothing really special about them - unless you believe in
>>> their religious/spiritual nature. I suppose you could have one made
>>> out of impactite, or even a meteorite, but I have *never* seen one
>>> made of said materials. They're typically made of that odd
>>> dichromatic sedimentary stone (at least I'm fairly sure it's
>>> sedimentary given the texture), but I'm not exactly sure as to what it
>>> is.
>>> Regards,
>>> Jason
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Melanie Matthews
>>> <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Good morning list.
>>>>
>>>> I was told once by the store owner of a local rock shop that
>>>> shivalingams are the result of meteor impacts in India... think I recall her
>>>> claim was backed by info from a rock/mineral book that she uses for
>>>> reference. Is this true? I haven't found anything on google that mentions
>>>> anything on that..
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> - Mel
>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> New! Open Messenger faster on the MSN homepage
>>>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677405
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>


From care at bitsofearth.com  Mon Sep 21 22:03:19 2009
From: care at bitsofearth.com (Bits Of Earth)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:03:19 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
In-Reply-To: <332740.69929.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <332740.69929.qm@web33902.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FD3FB87450D248C8A0C0D0450C862FE5@jaime>

I most definitely agree 100%.

Erik Twelker helped me a while back to pick out/buy a very special meteorite
(to me) and was THE definition of "first class service". Still have the
meteorite to this day. 

You will get nothing but the best from him.
 
Jaime Kelly
www.bitsofearth.com


-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Kowalski
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:56 PM
To: meteorite list
Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due

I know that most businesses never hear anything but complaints, and I've
expressed my share on this list too.

I just want to let everyone know of a dealer going above and beyond, WAY
above, and offer some praise here instead of complaint.

I ordered a small slice of Gujba, just a couple of grams, for my type set
from Eric Twelker a short while ago. When it hadn't arrived, I inquired if
it had been sent and when, just to make sure it hadn't gotten lost in the
mail. He responded quickly that he was away but would check on it as soon as
he returned home. Finding he had made a mistake, he apologized that he
hadn't yet sent it and said it'd be on its way that day. That was on
Saturday.

I just went out to the mailbox to find my slice already delivered with $21+
postage on the envelope! I'm still shocked. Totally unexpected and in my
case, unnecessary. He could have sent it via normal 1st class mail and I
would have been happy with that, but he made the extra effort and loss of
profit to make a very small mistake in mind very much more than right.

Eric's website

http://www.meteoritemarket.com/mmhomef.htm

--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081




      
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


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From cynapse at charter.net  Mon Sep 21 23:36:00 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:36:00 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Cassini Reveals New Ring Quirks,
	Shadows During Saturn Equinox
In-Reply-To: <200909212000.n8LK0Ow6016052@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
References: <200909212000.n8LK0Ow6016052@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <qfhgb5l0tkgqtqdnbbui2op0d3ulchj4bs@4ax.com>

Two words:  day yam.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/09/21/behold-saturn/


From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 22 02:23:55 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:23:55 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
In-Reply-To: <FD3FB87450D248C8A0C0D0450C862FE5@jaime>
Message-ID: <424802.81589.qm@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Many other dealers also deserve praise. The Hupes and Marcin Cimala for example take the gretest care in sample preparation, not to forget Notkin and others too many to list. so a great thanks to all.,

Steve Dunklee

--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Bits Of Earth <care at bitsofearth.com> wrote:

> From: Bits Of Earth <care at bitsofearth.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
> To: "'Richard Kowalski'" <damoclid at yahoo.com>, "'meteorite list'" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 9:03 PM
> I most definitely agree 100%.
> 
> Erik Twelker helped me a while back to pick out/buy a very
> special meteorite
> (to me) and was THE definition of "first class service".
> Still have the
> meteorite to this day. 
> 
> You will get nothing but the best from him.
>  
> Jaime Kelly
> www.bitsofearth.com
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
> On Behalf Of Richard
> Kowalski
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:56 PM
> To: meteorite list
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than
> due
> 
> I know that most businesses never hear anything but
> complaints, and I've
> expressed my share on this list too.
> 
> I just want to let everyone know of a dealer going above
> and beyond, WAY
> above, and offer some praise here instead of complaint.
> 
> I ordered a small slice of Gujba, just a couple of grams,
> for my type set
> from Eric Twelker a short while ago. When it hadn't
> arrived, I inquired if
> it had been sent and when, just to make sure it hadn't
> gotten lost in the
> mail. He responded quickly that he was away but would check
> on it as soon as
> he returned home. Finding he had made a mistake, he
> apologized that he
> hadn't yet sent it and said it'd be on its way that day.
> That was on
> Saturday.
> 
> I just went out to the mailbox to find my slice already
> delivered with $21+
> postage on the envelope! I'm still shocked. Totally
> unexpected and in my
> case, unnecessary. He could have sent it via normal 1st
> class mail and I
> would have been happy with that, but he made the extra
> effort and loss of
> profit to make a very small mistake in mind very much more
> than right.
> 
> Eric's website
> 
> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/mmhomef.htm
> 
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 090921-0, 09/21/2009
> Tested on: 9/21/2009 4:04:56 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 090921-0, 09/21/2009
> Tested on: 9/21/2009 7:03:19 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From carothersdl at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 03:11:43 2009
From: carothersdl at gmail.com (dave carothers)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 03:11:43 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
References: <424802.81589.qm@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1598E01F09CA46E8901F965EB3914AED@your291etg47cr>

I agree.  As a community, we are blessed with a large number of sellers and 
professional dealers that provide outstanding service to us all.  We don't 
say it often enough, so let me add a few more names to the list from the 
folks I've done business with in the past.

THANK YOU Adam, Greg, Mark, Mike, Marcin, Geoff, Eric, Mirko, Carsten, Eric, 
Jim, Bernhard, Wayne, McCartney, Bob, Mike, Sergey, Siegfried, Andreas, 
Martin, Pierre-Marie, Anne, Dean, Ruben, Hanno, Doug, Robert, Svend, Dirk, 
and Steve#1 for your honesty, integrity, and for providing us with so many 
beautiful specimens to add to our collections.

Dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
To: "'Richard Kowalski'" <damoclid at yahoo.com>; "'meteorite list'" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <care at bitsofearth.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:23 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due


Many other dealers also deserve praise. The Hupes and Marcin Cimala for 
example take the gretest care in sample preparation, not to forget Notkin 
and others too many to list. so a great thanks to all.,

Steve Dunklee

--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Bits Of Earth <care at bitsofearth.com> wrote:

> From: Bits Of Earth <care at bitsofearth.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
> To: "'Richard Kowalski'" <damoclid at yahoo.com>, "'meteorite list'" 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 9:03 PM
> I most definitely agree 100%.
>
> Erik Twelker helped me a while back to pick out/buy a very
> special meteorite
> (to me) and was THE definition of "first class service".
> Still have the
> meteorite to this day.
>
> You will get nothing but the best from him.
>
> Jaime Kelly
> www.bitsofearth.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
> On Behalf Of Richard
> Kowalski
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:56 PM
> To: meteorite list
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than
> due
>
> I know that most businesses never hear anything but
> complaints, and I've
> expressed my share on this list too.
>
> I just want to let everyone know of a dealer going above
> and beyond, WAY
> above, and offer some praise here instead of complaint.
>
> I ordered a small slice of Gujba, just a couple of grams,
> for my type set
> from Eric Twelker a short while ago. When it hadn't
> arrived, I inquired if
> it had been sent and when, just to make sure it hadn't
> gotten lost in the
> mail. He responded quickly that he was away but would check
> on it as soon as
> he returned home. Finding he had made a mistake, he
> apologized that he
> hadn't yet sent it and said it'd be on its way that day.
> That was on
> Saturday.
>
> I just went out to the mailbox to find my slice already
> delivered with $21+
> postage on the envelope! I'm still shocked. Totally
> unexpected and in my
> case, unnecessary. He could have sent it via normal 1st
> class mail and I
> would have been happy with that, but he made the extra
> effort and loss of
> profit to make a very small mistake in mind very much more
> than right.
>
> Eric's website
>
> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/mmhomef.htm
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 090921-0, 09/21/2009
> Tested on: 9/21/2009 4:04:56 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 090921-0, 09/21/2009
> Tested on: 9/21/2009 7:03:19 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From schroer at bigpond.com  Tue Sep 22 03:24:51 2009
From: schroer at bigpond.com (W&S Schroer)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:54:51 +0930
Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
Message-ID: <D19DAADFE8A245529955EC830703C47C@WERNER>

Hi list,
living in the Australian Outback can be a bit hazardous sometimes and right 
now I'm experiencing one of the worst dust storms I've ever been through. At 
3 o'clock in the afternoon the world outside of my house has turned into 
what hell might look like. It is almost complete dark but the darkness is 
not black but a deep red caused by the typical red sand of the Australian 
deserts.
To be honest, it's a bit scary and I hope the roof will still be where it 
belongs when this is over.

We here in Australia have dust storms quite frequently, what we don't have 
are lots of local meteorite dealers to chose from. But there is at least one 
seller whose helpfulness and generosity I found to be outstanding:

http://www.rocksonfire.com/home.html

located in Melbourne and owned by Norbert and Heike Kammel .

I can't recall the number of items I've bought from this business over the 
years but I remember well that I always felt like being treated as part of 
the 'family' every time I contacted them.

So no matter where you live in this world, if you want excellent service and 
fair prices the address above is certainly worth to be checked out.

Werner & Sandra Schroer






From spacerocksinc at aol.com  Tue Sep 22 09:37:40 2009
From: spacerocksinc at aol.com (spacerocksinc at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:37:40 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
In-Reply-To: <1598E01F09CA46E8901F965EB3914AED@your291etg47cr>
References: <424802.81589.qm@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com><1598E01F09CA46E8901F965EB3914AED@your291etg47cr>
Message-ID: <2143608655-1253626660-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-198355378-@bda267.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Jim Strope, Matt Morgan and Michael Cottingham!!

Regards,
Michael Johnson
http://www.rocksfromspace.com

Thumbed On My BlackBerry   

-----Original Message-----
From: "dave carothers" <carothersdl at gmail.com>

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 03:11:43 
To: Steve Dunklee<sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>; 'meteorite list'<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due


I agree.  As a community, we are blessed with a large number of sellers and 
professional dealers that provide outstanding service to us all.  We don't 
say it often enough, so let me add a few more names to the list from the 
folks I've done business with in the past.

THANK YOU Adam, Greg, Mark, Mike, Marcin, Geoff, Eric, Mirko, Carsten, Eric, 
Jim, Bernhard, Wayne, McCartney, Bob, Mike, Sergey, Siegfried, Andreas, 
Martin, Pierre-Marie, Anne, Dean, Ruben, Hanno, Doug, Robert, Svend, Dirk, 
and Steve#1 for your honesty, integrity, and for providing us with so many 
beautiful specimens to add to our collections.

Dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
To: "'Richard Kowalski'" <damoclid at yahoo.com>; "'meteorite list'" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <care at bitsofearth.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:23 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due


Many other dealers also deserve praise. The Hupes and Marcin Cimala for 
example take the gretest care in sample preparation, not to forget Notkin 
and others too many to list. so a great thanks to all.,

Steve Dunklee

--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Bits Of Earth <care at bitsofearth.com> wrote:

> From: Bits Of Earth <care at bitsofearth.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
> To: "'Richard Kowalski'" <damoclid at yahoo.com>, "'meteorite list'" 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 9:03 PM
> I most definitely agree 100%.
>
> Erik Twelker helped me a while back to pick out/buy a very
> special meteorite
> (to me) and was THE definition of "first class service".
> Still have the
> meteorite to this day.
>
> You will get nothing but the best from him.
>
> Jaime Kelly
> www.bitsofearth.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
> On Behalf Of Richard
> Kowalski
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:56 PM
> To: meteorite list
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than
> due
>
> I know that most businesses never hear anything but
> complaints, and I've
> expressed my share on this list too.
>
> I just want to let everyone know of a dealer going above
> and beyond, WAY
> above, and offer some praise here instead of complaint.
>
> I ordered a small slice of Gujba, just a couple of grams,
> for my type set
> from Eric Twelker a short while ago. When it hadn't
> arrived, I inquired if
> it had been sent and when, just to make sure it hadn't
> gotten lost in the
> mail. He responded quickly that he was away but would check
> on it as soon as
> he returned home. Finding he had made a mistake, he
> apologized that he
> hadn't yet sent it and said it'd be on its way that day.
> That was on
> Saturday.
>
> I just went out to the mailbox to find my slice already
> delivered with $21+
> postage on the envelope! I'm still shocked. Totally
> unexpected and in my
> case, unnecessary. He could have sent it via normal 1st
> class mail and I
> would have been happy with that, but he made the extra
> effort and loss of
> profit to make a very small mistake in mind very much more
> than right.
>
> Eric's website
>
> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/mmhomef.htm
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 090921-0, 09/21/2009
> Tested on: 9/21/2009 4:04:56 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 090921-0, 09/21/2009
> Tested on: 9/21/2009 7:03:19 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From spacerocksinc at aol.com  Tue Sep 22 09:48:20 2009
From: spacerocksinc at aol.com (spacerocksinc at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:48:20 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
In-Reply-To: <1598E01F09CA46E8901F965EB3914AED@your291etg47cr>
References: <424802.81589.qm@web33206.mail.mud.yahoo.com><1598E01F09CA46E8901F965EB3914AED@your291etg47cr>
Message-ID: <1781756-1253627305-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-863909140-@bda267.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Jim Strope, Matt Morgan and Michael Cottingham!!

Regards,
Michael Johnson
http://www.rocksfromspace.org


Thumbed On My BlackBerry   

-----Original Message-----
From: "dave carothers" <carothersdl at gmail.com>

Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 03:11:43 
To: Steve Dunklee<sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>; 'meteorite list'<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due


I agree.  As a community, we are blessed with a large number of sellers and 
professional dealers that provide outstanding service to us all.  We don't 
say it often enough, so let me add a few more names to the list from the 
folks I've done business with in the past.

THANK YOU Adam, Greg, Mark, Mike, Marcin, Geoff, Eric, Mirko, Carsten, Eric, 
Jim, Bernhard, Wayne, McCartney, Bob, Mike, Sergey, Siegfried, Andreas, 
Martin, Pierre-Marie, Anne, Dean, Ruben, Hanno, Doug, Robert, Svend, Dirk, 
and Steve#1 for your honesty, integrity, and for providing us with so many 
beautiful specimens to add to our collections.

Dave

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Dunklee" <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
To: "'Richard Kowalski'" <damoclid at yahoo.com>; "'meteorite list'" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <care at bitsofearth.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 2:23 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due


Many other dealers also deserve praise. The Hupes and Marcin Cimala for 
example take the gretest care in sample preparation, not to forget Notkin 
and others too many to list. so a great thanks to all.,

Steve Dunklee

--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Bits Of Earth <care at bitsofearth.com> wrote:

> From: Bits Of Earth <care at bitsofearth.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than due
> To: "'Richard Kowalski'" <damoclid at yahoo.com>, "'meteorite list'" 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Monday, September 21, 2009, 9:03 PM
> I most definitely agree 100%.
>
> Erik Twelker helped me a while back to pick out/buy a very
> special meteorite
> (to me) and was THE definition of "first class service".
> Still have the
> meteorite to this day.
>
> You will get nothing but the best from him.
>
> Jaime Kelly
> www.bitsofearth.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
> On Behalf Of Richard
> Kowalski
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 3:56 PM
> To: meteorite list
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Credit where credit is more than
> due
>
> I know that most businesses never hear anything but
> complaints, and I've
> expressed my share on this list too.
>
> I just want to let everyone know of a dealer going above
> and beyond, WAY
> above, and offer some praise here instead of complaint.
>
> I ordered a small slice of Gujba, just a couple of grams,
> for my type set
> from Eric Twelker a short while ago. When it hadn't
> arrived, I inquired if
> it had been sent and when, just to make sure it hadn't
> gotten lost in the
> mail. He responded quickly that he was away but would check
> on it as soon as
> he returned home. Finding he had made a mistake, he
> apologized that he
> hadn't yet sent it and said it'd be on its way that day.
> That was on
> Saturday.
>
> I just went out to the mailbox to find my slice already
> delivered with $21+
> postage on the envelope! I'm still shocked. Totally
> unexpected and in my
> case, unnecessary. He could have sent it via normal 1st
> class mail and I
> would have been happy with that, but he made the extra
> effort and loss of
> profit to make a very small mistake in mind very much more
> than right.
>
> Eric's website
>
> http://www.meteoritemarket.com/mmhomef.htm
>
> --
> Richard Kowalski
> http://fullmoonphotography.net
> IMCA #1081
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Inbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 090921-0, 09/21/2009
> Tested on: 9/21/2009 4:04:56 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
> Virus Database (VPS): 090921-0, 09/21/2009
> Tested on: 9/21/2009 7:03:19 PM
> avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2009 ALWIL Software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 22 09:51:51 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 06:51:51 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD -Another heads up/ K-T Boundary material
Message-ID: <COL108-W46F515C4638061DF72D34E9BDC0@phx.gbl>


Hi,

I did some searching online for some K-T Boundary material since I'm too lazy to go looking for the stuff myself. I was inspired by the recent conversations on the Chicxulub asteroid here. I thought it would nicely complement my meteorite collection and would be cool to look at when related programs on TV airs. I found this:

http://www.mountain-skies.org/newitems.htm

I got mine yesterday. I opted for the smaller size specimen for $10 plus shipping. Shipping cost was a bit high at nearly $7 for 1st class (w/delivery confirmation), but being a non profit organization I think I can deal with that. Shipping was pretty quick as I ordered on Thursday and received it the following Monday. My piece weighs 0.3g and measures 12mm X 14mm X 1mm and fits nicely in a round 1 3/4" gem jar. It's a bit friable since little crumbs broke off when I clumsily picked it up off my scale. There is no data (or COA) to go with it, only that it's from Alberta, Canada and that's from their website. The piece is black, granular with some  grayish material (looks like concrete) embedded in it. Using a 30X loop, I can see tiny, shiny bits of, what I think is metal.

I saw NEMS also has some specimens from different localities for sale but I don't plan to buy anymore of this material so wont be doing a write up on them anytime soon.

Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with Mountain-Skies nor do I know anyone there, though it's quite possible some members are also members of this list.

Carl




 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290

From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 22 11:23:27 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:23:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thank you List.
Message-ID: <10589702.1253633007803.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Good Morning from Sin City,

I have been collecting and recently hunting meteorites for just these past nine months. Nearly a dozen dealers on the LIST can attest that I "caught the bug" and quickly aquired first, the requisite, ubquitose, types and now the more definitive and rare examples as I refine my interest. I could not have obtained these specimens and the lab equipiment to enjoy them without the postings of the members of the List and their respective websites. 

The amount of knowledge one can aquire from perusing the professional photography and academic papers posted to the List and available on the dozens of links provided is frankly, incredible. 

I wish to publicly thank the List for welcoming this "newbie". 

A special thanks to Sonny Clary who, by serendipty, lives within hailing distance of me and has generously guided my first steps into this remarkable field of interest. His finds, particularly in Nevada, are among the rariest extant.

A quick Vielen Dank to Moritz Karl for the gorgeous Cape York. The Winonaite was beautifully prepared.

Count Guido Deiro     



 

     


From cynapse at charter.net  Tue Sep 22 12:26:04 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:26:04 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Another lying kid gets clueless paper to publish
	his story
In-Reply-To: <c7d.557fb81f.37e97221@aol.com>
References: <c7d.557fb81f.37e97221@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7duhb51hfvrja2dfc2b2tuuc95jk3jocmm@4ax.com>

Caution-- this story contains such a dense concentration of misinformation that
there is the risk of it tearing a hole in reality and suck you into your
monitor.

Photo in the link.

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2009/09/22/meteorite-rocks-bruno-s-world-97319-24745554/


'Meteorite' rocks Bruno's world

Sep 22 2009 by Vicky Farncombe, Birmingham 

STARGAZING student Bruno Bertullo had a wish come true when what he believes to
be a meteorite landed in his grandmother?s back garden.

The Spanish 16-year-old was playing on the computer in his bedroom when out of
the corner of his eye he saw a fireball whizz past the window.

He ran down to the garden in Blackford Road, Sparkhill, where he discovered an
unusual looking rock.

It was the size of his hand and covered in holes.

?I tried to touch it but it was very hot so I ran back into the kitchen to fetch
the tongs,? said Bruno.

?I put it in some cold water and straight away the water went hot.

?It?s very strange. I have never seen anything like it in my life and it wasn?t
in the garden before.? The keen astronomer studied the rock and looked up its
structure on the internet.

?I think it?s a meteorite,? he said. ?I know from listening to spacemen that
meteorites look broken and their surface is full of pores ? just like this one.?

Bruno, who moved from Madrid to his grandmother?s house to practise his English,
is a sports student at Solihull College.

He said he was ?really excited? to find the moon rock.

?I?m very interested in astronomy. I never thought I should be so lucky as to
find a meteorite,? he said.

Meteorologist John Wright from the University of Birmingham said it was ?very
likely? that the rock fell from outer space.

?The earth?s orbit has been passing through a cloud of meteorites in the last
few weeks so I?m not surprised,? he said. ?We?ve had a lot of people witnessing
shooting stars. If it is a meteorite it will be very dark and heavy.?


From LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com  Tue Sep 22 11:31:19 2009
From: LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com (LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:31:19 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Another lying kid gets clueless paper to
	publish his story
Message-ID: <d60.588bd8a5.37ea47c7@aol.com>

Good morning Folks,

I can hear the next  door neighbor who was BBQing, and tossed the hot rock 
over the fence, laughing  his keester off from here.

Paul Martyn
Savannah, GA

In a  message dated 2009/09/22 11:25:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
cynapse at charter.net writes:
Caution-- this story contains such a dense  concentration of misinformation 
that
there is the risk of it tearing a hole  in reality and suck you into your
monitor.

Photo in the  link.

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2009/09/22/meteorite-rocks-br
uno-s-world-97319-24745554/   



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 11:46:45 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:46:45 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Similarities between Meteorite Hunting and
	Beach-Combing
Message-ID: <e51421550909220846m6337d5d0n7ff28d3ca8ad712c@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List,

Please forgive the somewhat-whimsical nature of this post.  Last week
I was fortunate enough to spend a great deal of time on Indian Shores
and Indian Rocks beaches in Pinellas County Florida.  My wife and I
walked several miles of beach, every morning and every evening (and
plenty in-between as well) for an entire week.  In addition to
meteorites and rocks, we also collect seashells and I was on the hunt
the entire time.

One thing that struck me, as I meandered down the sandy shores, was
that hunting for meteorites in the field must share some similarities
with hunting valuable seashells.

1) Both require a sharp eye that can distinguish a possible "hit" from
the multitudinous background of common or worthless items and
fragments.  In my mind, this is similar to hunting for black
meteorites on a busy desert pavement.  There is a lot of visual
overload in every glance - tons of tiny objects that are mostly
worthless or not of interest.  And then without warning, you spot
something unusual and stoop down to inspect it.  If it's a rare type
of shell or something very beautiful, then you hold it up like a
little kid, dance up and down, and then proudly show it to anyone who
cares to look.

2) You do a lot of walking and more walking, and then some more
walking.  If you don't enjoy hiking, beach-combing, or just walking
around out in nature, then you probably aren't cut out for meteorite
hunting or shelling.  I guess the best way to put it is - you must
love the chase.

3) Interface with the locals.  It helps to be friendly and observant
when entering a new community in search of your prize.  Pay attention
to what the locals are doing and be very considerate of their local
laws and customs.  Whether you are meteorite hunting or hunting
conchs, you never want the locals mad at you.  Also, the locals know
the area much better than you.  Search engines and Google Earth can
only tell you so much - the rest is learned through trial and error,
or interfacing with the locals.

4) Where there is one rare or desirable type of shell, there is likely
to be more.  Places for shelling run hot and cold.  You might walk a 2
mile stretch and not find anything of note and then you hit a hotspot
that is loaded with uncommon shells.   These shell-rich areas are like
a strewnfield, so it pays to stop and spend some time hunting out that
area.  Frequently, I would walk a grid in the knee-deep surf with my
scoop-basket, pulling up cones, conchs, scallops, rocks, and anything
else that caught my eye. (or I felt with my foot)  My wife walked the
tideline, several feet away, and we systematically hunted entire
stretches of beach right after sunrise.  I pity anyone who came along
after us, expecting to find something extraordinary.

However, one thing I did notice that is different about shelling and
meteorite hunting is - every time I tried to document my finds, I
would lose my scale cube in the surf.   My GPS also got wet, and after
the first in-situ photo, it fried out on me. ;)

Best regards from sunny Florida,

MikeG

PS - the metal detector yielded very little.  Lots of bottlecaps, some
pocket change, lots of foil wrappers, and big ugly chunk of scrap iron
buried 12 inches down near the storm line.

-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Tue Sep 22 11:53:52 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 08:53:52 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Another lying kid gets clueless paper to
 publish his story
In-Reply-To: <7duhb51hfvrja2dfc2b2tuuc95jk3jocmm@4ax.com>
References: <c7d.557fb81f.37e97221@aol.com>
	<7duhb51hfvrja2dfc2b2tuuc95jk3jocmm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4AB8F310.1010601@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi Darren, List,

That is perhaps the worst reporting and story I've read on meteorites to 
date. Not to mention the "expert opinion" from the University of 
Birmingham's "Meteorologist".. ???Really???

Headline should read:
"Lucky kid astronomer listens to spacemen and finds hot and holey moon 
rock in backyard!" and a meteorologist confirms? What does meteorology 
have to do with meteorites???? ;)

Any other ideas for headlines appropriate for this article?

Regards,
Eric




Darren Garrison wrote:
> Caution-- this story contains such a dense concentration of misinformation that
> there is the risk of it tearing a hole in reality and suck you into your
> monitor.
>
> Photo in the link.
>
> http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2009/09/22/meteorite-rocks-bruno-s-world-97319-24745554/
>
>
> 'Meteorite' rocks Bruno's world
>
> Sep 22 2009 by Vicky Farncombe, Birmingham 
>
> STARGAZING student Bruno Bertullo had a wish come true when what he believes to
> be a meteorite landed in his grandmother?s back garden.
>
> The Spanish 16-year-old was playing on the computer in his bedroom when out of
> the corner of his eye he saw a fireball whizz past the window.
>
> He ran down to the garden in Blackford Road, Sparkhill, where he discovered an
> unusual looking rock.
>
> It was the size of his hand and covered in holes.
>
> ?I tried to touch it but it was very hot so I ran back into the kitchen to fetch
> the tongs,? said Bruno.
>
> ?I put it in some cold water and straight away the water went hot.
>
> ?It?s very strange. I have never seen anything like it in my life and it wasn?t
> in the garden before.? The keen astronomer studied the rock and looked up its
> structure on the internet.
>
> ?I think it?s a meteorite,? he said. ?I know from listening to spacemen that
> meteorites look broken and their surface is full of pores ? just like this one.?
>
> Bruno, who moved from Madrid to his grandmother?s house to practise his English,
> is a sports student at Solihull College.
>
> He said he was ?really excited? to find the moon rock.
>
> ?I?m very interested in astronomy. I never thought I should be so lucky as to
> find a meteorite,? he said.
>
> Meteorologist John Wright from the University of Birmingham said it was ?very
> likely? that the rock fell from outer space.
>
> ?The earth?s orbit has been passing through a cloud of meteorites in the last
> few weeks so I?m not surprised,? he said. ?We?ve had a lot of people witnessing
> shooting stars. If it is a meteorite it will be very dark and heavy.?
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 12:08:00 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:08:00 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Another lying kid gets clueless paper to
	publish his story
In-Reply-To: <d60.588bd8a5.37ea47c7@aol.com>
References: <d60.588bd8a5.37ea47c7@aol.com>
Message-ID: <f0a794130909220908h6d831609r8377a78cdbd3f2de@mail.gmail.com>

hey, i've found thousands of black rocks with holes in them. I must be
rich! Calling news stations now...

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 11:31 AM,  <LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com> wrote:
> Good morning Folks,
>
> I can hear the next ?door neighbor who was BBQing, and tossed the hot rock
> over the fence, laughing ?his keester off from here.
>
> Paul Martyn
> Savannah, GA
>
> In a ?message dated 2009/09/22 11:25:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> cynapse at charter.net writes:
> Caution-- this story contains such a dense ?concentration of misinformation
> that
> there is the risk of it tearing a hole ?in reality and suck you into your
> monitor.
>
> Photo in the ?link.
>
> http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2009/09/22/meteorite-rocks-br
> uno-s-world-97319-24745554/
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Tue Sep 22 12:09:41 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:09:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Another lying kid gets clueless paper to
 publish his story
Message-ID: <3047070.1253635781706.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Is that a "zit" on that kid's face, or did he just stick a yellow pin in it? Ugh! I don't know what looks worse, that thing he's holding, or his body ornamentation.

Count Deiro

-----Original Message-----
>From: Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com>
>Sent: Sep 22, 2009 11:53 AM
>To: cynapse at charter.net
>Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another lying kid gets clueless paper to publish his story
>
>Hi Darren, List,
>
>That is perhaps the worst reporting and story I've read on meteorites to 
>date. Not to mention the "expert opinion" from the University of 
>Birmingham's "Meteorologist".. ???Really???
>
>Headline should read:
>"Lucky kid astronomer listens to spacemen and finds hot and holey moon 
>rock in backyard!" and a meteorologist confirms? What does meteorology 
>have to do with meteorites???? ;)
>
>Any other ideas for headlines appropriate for this article?
>
>Regards,
>Eric
>
>
>
>
>Darren Garrison wrote:
>> Caution-- this story contains such a dense concentration of misinformation that
>> there is the risk of it tearing a hole in reality and suck you into your
>> monitor.
>>
>> Photo in the link.
>>
>> http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2009/09/22/meteorite-rocks-bruno-s-world-97319-24745554/
>>
>>
>> 'Meteorite' rocks Bruno's world
>>
>> Sep 22 2009 by Vicky Farncombe, Birmingham 
>>
>> STARGAZING student Bruno Bertullo had a wish come true when what he believes to
>> be a meteorite landed in his grandmother?s back garden.
>>
>> The Spanish 16-year-old was playing on the computer in his bedroom when out of
>> the corner of his eye he saw a fireball whizz past the window.
>>
>> He ran down to the garden in Blackford Road, Sparkhill, where he discovered an
>> unusual looking rock.
>>
>> It was the size of his hand and covered in holes.
>>
>> ?I tried to touch it but it was very hot so I ran back into the kitchen to fetch
>> the tongs,? said Bruno.
>>
>> ?I put it in some cold water and straight away the water went hot.
>>
>> ?It?s very strange. I have never seen anything like it in my life and it wasn?t
>> in the garden before.? The keen astronomer studied the rock and looked up its
>> structure on the internet.
>>
>> ?I think it?s a meteorite,? he said. ?I know from listening to spacemen that
>> meteorites look broken and their surface is full of pores ? just like this one.?
>>
>> Bruno, who moved from Madrid to his grandmother?s house to practise his English,
>> is a sports student at Solihull College.
>>
>> He said he was ?really excited? to find the moon rock.
>>
>> ?I?m very interested in astronomy. I never thought I should be so lucky as to
>> find a meteorite,? he said.
>>
>> Meteorologist John Wright from the University of Birmingham said it was ?very
>> likely? that the rock fell from outer space.
>>
>> ?The earth?s orbit has been passing through a cloud of meteorites in the last
>> few weeks so I?m not surprised,? he said. ?We?ve had a lot of people witnessing
>> shooting stars. If it is a meteorite it will be very dark and heavy.?
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>   
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 22 12:57:26 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:57:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Another lying kid gets clueless paper to
	publish his story
In-Reply-To: <7duhb51hfvrja2dfc2b2tuuc95jk3jocmm@4ax.com>
References: <c7d.557fb81f.37e97221@aol.com>
	<7duhb51hfvrja2dfc2b2tuuc95jk3jocmm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <510988.49234.qm@web30707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

This statement really got to me:

He said he was ?really excited? to find the moon rock.

He must have done some reading on the net and decided a moon rock would get the most bang-for-the-buck for his web of lies. A witnessed lunar meteorite, come on!

This piece of fiction reads like a  like a baby bouncing around with a nasty diaper.

It was worth a good laugh.

Best Regards,

Adam


From gmhupe at htn.net  Tue Sep 22 14:07:00 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:07:00 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Large Angrite Slices - NWA 4931 - AD
Message-ID: <77BE369E4A3D4242BCA53CE9613876AE@Gregor>

Dear List Members,

About a week ago I announced NWA 4931, the angrite that was flown to MIT in 
2007 where a core sample was taken for magnetism analysis. I was able to get 
large slices cut from the largest mass after the coring was completed. It 
was cut and polished by one of the best professionals out there! I would 
like to offer what I have available at discounted prices. Here is the list 
with photo links (measurements are in millimeters). The description of NWA 
4931 is below the list in this email.

In addition to announcing NWA 4931, I also have some very nice achondrite 
meteorite auctions ending on eBay tomorrow, Wednesday, September 23rd. Click 
here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

***Available specimens of angrite NWA 4931***

685g Fragment (no coring was done on this piece).
110mm x 90mm x 40mm
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/dsc00001.jpg

302g end cut
100 x 70 x 32
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/dsc00003.jpg

58.5g slice (has part of core hole along back side).
108 x 70 x 3
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/dsc00006.jpg

56.8g slice
105 x 69 x 3
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/dsc00007.jpg

32.2g part slice
67 x 49 x 3.5
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/dsc00008.jpg

29.8g part slice
68 x 53 x 3
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/dsc00009.jpg

23.3g part slice
64 x 45 x 3
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/dsc00010.jpg

22.7g part slice
62 x 43 x 3
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/dsc00011.jpg

22.4g part slice (has part of core hole along back edge).
62 x 40 x 3
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/dsc00012.jpg

17.2g part slice (has part of core hole along back edge).
58 x 40 x 3
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/dsc00014.jpg

16.3g part slice
59 x 38 x 3
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/dsc00015.jpg

14.8g part slice
68 x 23 x 3.5
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/dsc00016.jpg

8.9g part slice (has part of core hole along back edge).
49 x 27 x 3
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/dsc00019.jpg

I have priced these at $75.00 per gram for the polished slices and can offer 
further discounts on the large fragment and end cut. If you are interested 
in any of these specimens, please email me Off-List. Thank you for 
considering these beautiful angrite specimens!

Here is my description of NWA 4931 with photo links of the coring and 
overall meteorite:

Start>>
NWA 4931, the Main Mass to the now famous angrite, NWA 2999. NWA 4931 has a
Total Known Weight (TKW) of 2140 grams in two interlocking fragments, which
form a complete stone. Surprisingly, the two parts were recovered by nomads
months apart in the Sahara Desert in 2007. The first 1314-gram half was
flown to Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Boston where scientists
extracted a core sample in order to conduct magnetism tests, which they
hoped would provide vital evidence indicating the size of the Angrite Parent
Body (APB).

Image of 1314-gram stone representing 60% of entire mass (cube: 1-inch
square):
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/nwa4931complete1.jpg

Link to image of core sampling at MIT laboratory:
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/nwa4931core.jpg

Image of 66-gram complete slice displaying abundant xenocrysts:
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/nwa4931slice.jpg

An international consortium of scientists, led by Dr. Benjamin Weiss of MIT,
took a new approach to the problem by testing samples from several angrites
with an extremely sensitive magnetometer. They discovered the material
showed evidence of ancient magnetic fields similar to those of rocks formed
on Earth within the planet's magnetic field. In other words, as the team
reported in the October 31, 2008 issue of Science, these 4.56
billion-year-old meteorites once were part of bodies that were either big
enough or hot enough to produce central, molten, metallic cores.

Link to LPSC abstract on magnetic field on Angrite Parent Body:
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/2143.pdf

"The meteorites, therefore, are essentially magnetic recording tapes," says
Weiss. The magnetic fields that they recorded were probably generated by
molten metal swirling around inside the planet's core like a giant, rotating
dynamo, as happens on Earth. Angrites are among the oldest known pristine
basaltic meteorites ever found and have provided new clues about the
conditions that existed at the beginning of the solar system, solving a
longstanding mystery and overturning some accepted ideas about the way
planets form. They still contain magnetic records about the earliest stages
of planet formation and differentiation.

ScienceNOW Daily News: October 30, 2008:
http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2008/1030/2

Science October 31, 2008:
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/322/5902/713

Link to abstract reporting ages of angrites NWA 2999, NWA 4801 and NWA 4590
"Tamassint":
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metchron2007/pdf/4061.pdf

BSE image of corona textures in NWA 4931.
http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa4931/nwa4931bse.jpg
End<<

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault




From jakub at meteorites.pl  Tue Sep 22 15:10:53 2009
From: jakub at meteorites.pl (Jakub Radwan)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:10:53 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] The Handbook of Iron Meteorites by Vagn
	Buchwald
Message-ID: <4AB9213D.2010202@meteorites.pl>

As much as I hate to part with it, I would rather let someone else enjoy 
it. It is too valuable to continue to collect dust.

Excellent condition. Questions and offers off-list, please.


Thanks,
J.R.


From mikewren at gilanet.com  Tue Sep 22 17:05:03 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:05:03 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: A Cool & Rare Meteorite With Provenance -On
	Sale!
Message-ID: <338F6B8B-EA8E-4464-B2C3-5A5FCB2940B3@gilanet.com>

Hello,

Quick Note:

Nice Rarity priced to sell!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200386894490


Thanks and Best Wishes

Michael


From spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com  Tue Sep 22 17:25:30 2009
From: spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com (Melanie Matthews)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 14:25:30 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Another lying kid gets clueless paper to
 publish	his story
In-Reply-To: <7duhb51hfvrja2dfc2b2tuuc95jk3jocmm@4ax.com>
References: <c7d.557fb81f.37e97221@aol.com>
	<7duhb51hfvrja2dfc2b2tuuc95jk3jocmm@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <BLU137-W36ECC0862570BB1AFF31F5D6DC0@phx.gbl>


LOL I need that laugh! 

-----------
Melanie 
IMCA: 2975
eBay: metmel2775
Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
 
Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know what you're gonna get! 

----------------------------------------
> From: cynapse at charter.net
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:26:04 -0500
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Another lying kid gets clueless paper to publish his story
>
> Caution-- this story contains such a dense concentration of misinformation that
> there is the risk of it tearing a hole in reality and suck you into your
> monitor.
>
> Photo in the link.
>
> http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-stories/2009/09/22/meteorite-rocks-bruno-s-world-97319-24745554/
>
>
> 'Meteorite' rocks Bruno's world
>
> Sep 22 2009 by Vicky Farncombe, Birmingham
>
> STARGAZING student Bruno Bertullo had a wish come true when what he believes to
> be a meteorite landed in his grandmother?s back garden.
>
> The Spanish 16-year-old was playing on the computer in his bedroom when out of
> the corner of his eye he saw a fireball whizz past the window.
>
> He ran down to the garden in Blackford Road, Sparkhill, where he discovered an
> unusual looking rock.
>
> It was the size of his hand and covered in holes.
>
> ?I tried to touch it but it was very hot so I ran back into the kitchen to fetch
> the tongs,? said Bruno.
>
> ?I put it in some cold water and straight away the water went hot.
>
> ?It?s very strange. I have never seen anything like it in my life and it wasn?t
> in the garden before.? The keen astronomer studied the rock and looked up its
> structure on the internet.
>
> ?I think it?s a meteorite,? he said. ?I know from listening to spacemen that
> meteorites look broken and their surface is full of pores ? just like this one.?
>
> Bruno, who moved from Madrid to his grandmother?s house to practise his English,
> is a sports student at Solihull College.
>
> He said he was ?really excited? to find the moon rock.
>
> ?I?m very interested in astronomy. I never thought I should be so lucky as to
> find a meteorite,? he said.
>
> Meteorologist John Wright from the University of Birmingham said it was ?very
> likely? that the rock fell from outer space.
>
> ?The earth?s orbit has been passing through a cloud of meteorites in the last
> few weeks so I?m not surprised,? he said. ?We?ve had a lot of people witnessing
> shooting stars. If it is a meteorite it will be very dark and heavy.?
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

_________________________________________________________________
New: Messenger sign-in on the MSN homepage
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677403

From mqfowler at mac.com  Tue Sep 22 17:19:38 2009
From: mqfowler at mac.com (Michael Fowler)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:19:38 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Off Topic:  Element 79 by Fred Hoyle & Ad
Message-ID: <ADE2D76D-7F0E-44A9-9877-F71ED599ED8C@mac.com>

Hi list,

I remember fondly a science fiction story by the famous English Astro- 
Physicist, Fred Hoyle.  It is about a meteorite fall that would have  
destroyed the world financial system, if it hadn't been kept secret.

The name of the story is:  "Element 79"

Here's the ad part:

For those of you who have always wanted to hold a good piece of  
element 79 in your hand, or to have something to compare to when you  
tell someone that a certain meteorite in your collection is worth  
more, gram for gram, than gold I have an auction on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290352540640&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_500wt_1137

if someone on the list should be the buyer, I'll include my treasured  
copy of Hoyle's story "Element 79".

Mike Fowler
Chicago




From GeoZay at aol.com  Tue Sep 22 18:27:59 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:27:59 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Off Topic:  Element 79 by Fred Hoyle & Ad
Message-ID: <c3b.5e1b31ec.37eaa96f@aol.com>

>>For those of you who have always wanted  to hold a good piece of  
element 79 in your hand, or to have something  to compare to when you  
tell someone that a certain meteorite in your  collection is worth  
more, gram for gram, than gold I have an auction  on ebay:<<

That's a nice looking Australian nugget...no doubt with  a high 
purity...perhaps around 22k and 23k. 
GeoZay  



From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 22 18:45:44 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:45:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] OFF TOPIC - police raid house, end up playing wii
Message-ID: <366872.85202.qm@web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Read this today, very funny to say the least...

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/sep/21/undercover-drug-investigators-embarrass-polk-sheri/

"With guns drawn and flashlights cutting through darkened rooms, Polk County undercover drug investigators stormed the home of convicted drug dealer Michael Difalco near Lakeland in March.

As investigators searched the home for drugs, some drug task force members found other ways to occupy their time. Within 20 minutes of entering Difalco's house, some of the investigators found a Wii video bowling game and began bowling frame after frame.

While some detectives hauled out evidence such as flat screen televisions and shotguns, others threw strikes, gutter balls and worked on picking up spares.

A Polk County sheriff's detective cataloging evidence repeatedly put down her work and picked up a Wii remote to bowl. When she hit two strikes in a row, she raised her arms above her head, jumping and kicking.

While a female detective lifted a nearby couch looking for evidence, another sheriff's detective focused on pin action.

But detectives with the Polk County Sheriff's Office, the Auburndale, Lakeland and Winter Haven police departments did not know that a wireless security camera connected to a computer inside Difalco's home was recording their activity.

The recording obtained by News Channel 8 showed several members of the county's High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area (HIDTA) task force entering the house shortly after 8 a.m. According to the search warrant, their mission was to search for drugs, stolen property and the fruits of any illegal drug activity.

Now there are questions on how the impromptu bowling tournament might affect the case against Difalco.

Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd denies it will have any effect.

"That absolutely is not true; that doesn't invalidate the search at all," Judd said. "Now the defendant would like for it to invalidate the search, but unfortunately for him, it won't."

Judd, who watched the video during an interview last week, called the situation an embarrassment.

"I'm not pleased that they played that Wii bowling game," Judd said. The sheriff's office oversees the drug task force. Judd said he initiated an internal administrative investigation of the incident.

"That is not appropriate conduct at a search warrant," he said. "But I am less pleased with the supervision that didn't walk in and say, turn that off. That's what supervision should have done."

Task force members played the video game at various times during the day, for a total of a little over an hour of playing time. The competition proved to be quite competitive at times. A task force supervisor from the Lakeland Police Department, gun at his side, pumped his fist after picking up a strike on the first ball he threw. The video showed he continued bowling frame after frame, competing with another undercover detective."


      


From Midwest at Meteorman.org  Tue Sep 22 19:11:29 2009
From: Midwest at Meteorman.org (Timothy  Heitz)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:11:29 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Stan Wall - phone number?
References: <366872.85202.qm@web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4816874096354A319D1C76334C421388@den>


Hello List,

Maybe someone can help me out, I need the phone number of Stan Wall.

Thank You,
Tim Heitz


From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 20:36:14 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 20:36:14 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] OFF TOPIC - police raid house,
	end up playing 	wii
In-Reply-To: <366872.85202.qm@web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <366872.85202.qm@web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <f0a794130909221736p4bd8d75ctbca3f1925bb48c09@mail.gmail.com>

everybody loves wii bowling. BTW I have the original asteroids arcade
game at the bottom of my site... its not wii bowling but still cool
for old schoolers who like meteorites.

Mike Hankey

http://www.mikesastrophotos.com <!-- scroll to bottom of page for
asteroids game.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Greg Catterton
<star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Read this today, very funny to say the least...
>
> http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/sep/21/undercover-drug-investigators-embarrass-polk-sheri/
>
> "With guns drawn and flashlights cutting through darkened rooms, Polk County undercover drug investigators stormed the home of convicted drug dealer Michael Difalco near Lakeland in March.
>
> As investigators searched the home for drugs, some drug task force members found other ways to occupy their time. Within 20 minutes of entering Difalco's house, some of the investigators found a Wii video bowling game and began bowling frame after frame.
>
> While some detectives hauled out evidence such as flat screen televisions and shotguns, others threw strikes, gutter balls and worked on picking up spares.
>
> A Polk County sheriff's detective cataloging evidence repeatedly put down her work and picked up a Wii remote to bowl. When she hit two strikes in a row, she raised her arms above her head, jumping and kicking.
>
> While a female detective lifted a nearby couch looking for evidence, another sheriff's detective focused on pin action.
>
> But detectives with the Polk County Sheriff's Office, the Auburndale, Lakeland and Winter Haven police departments did not know that a wireless security camera connected to a computer inside Difalco's home was recording their activity.
>
> The recording obtained by News Channel 8 showed several members of the county's High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area (HIDTA) task force entering the house shortly after 8 a.m. According to the search warrant, their mission was to search for drugs, stolen property and the fruits of any illegal drug activity.
>
> Now there are questions on how the impromptu bowling tournament might affect the case against Difalco.
>
> Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd denies it will have any effect.
>
> "That absolutely is not true; that doesn't invalidate the search at all," Judd said. "Now the defendant would like for it to invalidate the search, but unfortunately for him, it won't."
>
> Judd, who watched the video during an interview last week, called the situation an embarrassment.
>
> "I'm not pleased that they played that Wii bowling game," Judd said. The sheriff's office oversees the drug task force. Judd said he initiated an internal administrative investigation of the incident.
>
> "That is not appropriate conduct at a search warrant," he said. "But I am less pleased with the supervision that didn't walk in and say, turn that off. That's what supervision should have done."
>
> Task force members played the video game at various times during the day, for a total of a little over an hour of playing time. The competition proved to be quite competitive at times. A task force supervisor from the Lakeland Police Department, gun at his side, pumped his fist after picking up a strike on the first ball he threw. The video showed he continued bowling frame after frame, competing with another undercover detective."
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From info at tektiteinc.com  Tue Sep 22 21:05:03 2009
From: info at tektiteinc.com (info at tektiteinc.com)
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 21:05:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Australite Part Button ending in a day on eBay
Message-ID: <54747.127.0.0.1.1253667903.squirrel@syd-srv07.ezyreg.com>

Hi all,

Just a quick one to let you know that my Australite Part Button is ending
on eBay in about a days time.

Even if you're not interested in Tektites, it's worth having a look.

Cheers,
Desmond Leong
IMCA #2254
http://www.TektiteInc.com
http://stores.ebay.com/Tektite-Inc
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtektiteinc-dot-com




From spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 23 03:52:23 2009
From: spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com (Melanie Matthews)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:52:23 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] (no subject)
Message-ID: <BLU137-W31FAE7162C43B52FEA7F20D6DB0@phx.gbl>


Hello, List, 
I've been thinking... how about a get together for us meteorite enthusiasts, or even a meteorite show sometime here on Vancouver Island or the Lower Mainland of Southern British Columbia, Canada? 

I don't yet have a passport - which I'll need to get into the US (should be getting one soon, though),, and I'd love to get to meet you guys, and get to see/handle some of the best out of your meteorite collections! The countryside is absolutely gorgeous where I live in the Comox/Courtenay area.. :) 

Maybe we could plan a date which might be good for many of you to come up this way? 

Regards 
-----------
Melanie 
IMCA: 2975
eBay: metmel2775
Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
 
Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know what you're gonna get! 

_________________________________________________________________
New! Open Messenger faster on the MSN homepage
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677405

From zneutronz at aol.com  Wed Sep 23 04:06:59 2009
From: zneutronz at aol.com (zneutronz at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 04:06:59 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA4483 SALE
Message-ID: <8CC0A3BF5FE28A4-5E70-6143@webmail-d008.sysops.aol.com>

hola collectors !

we have 6.784 billion people living on this planet, is there only one 
who would like to purchase my wonderfull NWA4483 lunar endcut ????

i sell for a fantastic price, just make an offer, i will sell under the 
price i paid !

dont forget the million dollars you paid 15 years ago, now under 600$ / 
gram !!

for pictures please contact me !  thanks,

kindly regards,

oliver
imca #6131


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 23 06:15:21 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 03:15:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Namibia Fireball
Message-ID: <861649.5076.qm@web53111.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear List,
  According to a report in the German news there was a large fireball seen over Namibia:


http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/

(English machine translation following the German version)

Thank you!  Dirk Ross...Tokyo


From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 14:27:14 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:27:14 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
Message-ID: <f0a794130909231127g58266734o55987aeabf00dd69@mail.gmail.com>

I've done some nickel tests on some of the slag/meteor wrongs we have found.

It tests positive for nickel.

Does this sound normal?

So I guess the only way to confirm slag (if you can't do it visually)
is to cut it open and if there are holes / bubbles then it is slag. Or
if the slice doesn't look like a meteorite slice it is slag.

For the record, I am personally looking for west like fusion crusted
stones and this is what I am training people to look for. At the same
time when I get reports about weird rocks I have to follow up and take
a look. Not all slag looks the same, there are a lot of different
types. I'm getting pretty good at identifying / ruling things out, but
the nickel test threw me for a loop.


From GeoZay at aol.com  Wed Sep 23 14:33:34 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:33:34 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
Message-ID: <ce9.60610aa3.37ebc3fe@aol.com>

>>I've done some nickel tests on some of  the slag/meteor wrongs we have 
found.

It tests positive for  nickel.

Does this sound normal?>>


It all depends...were  they buffalo heads, Jefferson or those new fangled 
ones?  :O)
GeoZay  



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 14:34:25 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:34:25 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
Message-ID: <f0a794130909231134n76c16c2by5d29dc0ca35e4a8e@mail.gmail.com>

This report came from a farmer. I don't have an answer for it (its
probably BS), but I wanted to throw it out there.

Guy is in the area. He had some meteor wrongs. While I was there, he
said he had noticed a strange 'orange/rust colored dust' that showed
up one day covering the top of one of his large gardens. It was a
pretty huge garden and there was orange dust all over it. Most of it
had washed away by the time I got there, but there were still spots
that had it. I took a sample but haven't done anything with it.

Guy said he has been farming the same land for close to 10 years and
had never noticed it. I talked to his Dad too, and he said he farmed
for 50 years in the area and never noticed something like that.

Is it possible this could be meteor dust? I know this is a long shot.
Maybe its just something in the ground and they never noticed it until
they heard about the meteor. Just wanted to know if anyone had ever
heard of anything like this before / if something like this is
possible.

Thanks,

Mike


From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 14:39:24 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:39:24 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
In-Reply-To: <ce9.60610aa3.37ebc3fe@aol.com>
References: <ce9.60610aa3.37ebc3fe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <f0a794130909231139s26427994k90dbc3c6c9192b0d@mail.gmail.com>

The test I used was a Nickel allergy test I bought online.

http://www.athenaallergy.com/?gclid=CIC1krawiJ0CFQog2godrC2Uhg

If you can recommend a better test kit, please fwd me the link.

I used some vinegar on the rock for a few minutes and then tested the
vinegar. It turned the swab bright red. I will compare results with a
real meteorite and see how that turns out.

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 2:33 PM,  <GeoZay at aol.com> wrote:
>>>I've done some nickel tests on some of ?the slag/meteor wrongs we have
> found.
>
> It tests positive for ?nickel.
>
> Does this sound normal?>>
>
>
> It all depends...were ?they buffalo heads, Jefferson or those new fangled
> ones? ?:O)
> GeoZay
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 23 14:45:29 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:45:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: seek volunteers for reporting Counterfeits to
	Ebay offlist please
Message-ID: <40096.37320.qm@web53111.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear List,
  I am seeking help with busting a counterfeit selling ring on Ebay (NOT related to meteorites).  I need help from individuals to report their activity.  Thank you.  Dirk Ross...Tokyo

Please contact me offlist.  Thank you.


From meteoriteshow at free.fr  Wed Sep 23 14:47:27 2009
From: meteoriteshow at free.fr (meteoriteshow at free.fr)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:47:27 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - ebay auctions ending on Saturday
Message-ID: <1253731647.4aba6d3f75360@imp.free.fr>

Dear Listees,

Meteoriteshow is back to ebay after a few weeks off!

Our ebay auctions ending on Saturday can be seen at:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZmeteoriteshow

They include:

1- SAH 02503 CV3 - 0.3g partslice
Partslice weighing 0.3g, dimensions ~17x10x1mm.
Diplays nice CAIs and sharpely defined chondrules.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330359576555

2- SAH 02501 - EUCRITE - 2.6g partslice
PARTSLICE weighing 2.6g, dimensions 23x16x3mm
Unusual blue-grey colour, fresh meteorite.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330359577693

3- NWA 052 (Kem-Kem) L5 - 7.1g partslice
Partslice weighing 7.1g, Dimensions: 22x20x8mm
Very Fresh, it displays nice metal flakes in a fairly weathered matrix.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330359579223

4- SAH 02500 L3 - 11.5g slice
Sice weighing 11.5g, dimensions: 59x24x5mm.
Typical structure of SAH 02500 diplaying a huge 5mm diameter Chondrule
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330359578574

5- Al Haggounia 001 PRIM. AUB. - 4.5g partslice
Partslice #002 weighing 4.5g, dimensions 48x19x2.7mm.
Cut in one of the freshest framents of Al Haggounia 001
This partslice was broken in 2 pces while cutting, both are being proposed
together.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330359580082

6- TAMDAKHT H5 - 24.1g frag - WITNESSED FALL!
Fragment weighing 24.1g, dimensions: 58x24x20mm.
Approximately 15% Fusion Crusted, very fresh fair grey matrix
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330359582553

Thank you very much for watching and best wishes to ALL BIDDERS!!!
Kind regards,

Frederic Beroud
http://www.meteoriteshow.com
IMCA member # 2491 (http://www.imca.cc/)


From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Wed Sep 23 14:57:42 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:57:42 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
References: <f0a794130909231134n76c16c2by5d29dc0ca35e4a8e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A279F420768C48AB93F6026842855364@ATARIENGINE2>

Hi, Mike, List,

My first suggestion would be that it comes
from the (seasonal) passage of large insect
swarms. No idea as to species, but it might
be a variant of the famous "Yellow Rain."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_rain
Since the color comes from pollen and the
color of the pollen varies with the plant
species, "Orange Rain" seems perfectly
plausible. It is an irregular occurrence in
any one locale (insect routes and size of
swarm vary considerably).


Sterling K. Webb
-----------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Hankey" <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
To: "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 1:34 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust


> This report came from a farmer. I don't have an answer for it (its
> probably BS), but I wanted to throw it out there.
>
> Guy is in the area. He had some meteor wrongs. While I was there, he
> said he had noticed a strange 'orange/rust colored dust' that showed
> up one day covering the top of one of his large gardens. It was a
> pretty huge garden and there was orange dust all over it. Most of it
> had washed away by the time I got there, but there were still spots
> that had it. I took a sample but haven't done anything with it.
>
> Guy said he has been farming the same land for close to 10 years and
> had never noticed it. I talked to his Dad too, and he said he farmed
> for 50 years in the area and never noticed something like that.
>
> Is it possible this could be meteor dust? I know this is a long shot.
> Maybe its just something in the ground and they never noticed it until
> they heard about the meteor. Just wanted to know if anyone had ever
> heard of anything like this before / if something like this is
> possible.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Wed Sep 23 15:11:12 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:11:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
Message-ID: <20063822.1253733072734.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

It's Agent Orange. Stay away from it. I sprayed it all over the Nam. It kills. First it chemically castrates you.

Guido ;o)  

-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 23, 2009 2:34 PM
>To: meteoritelist <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
>
>This report came from a farmer. I don't have an answer for it (its
>probably BS), but I wanted to throw it out there.
>
>Guy is in the area. He had some meteor wrongs. While I was there, he
>said he had noticed a strange 'orange/rust colored dust' that showed
>up one day covering the top of one of his large gardens. It was a
>pretty huge garden and there was orange dust all over it. Most of it
>had washed away by the time I got there, but there were still spots
>that had it. I took a sample but haven't done anything with it.
>
>Guy said he has been farming the same land for close to 10 years and
>had never noticed it. I talked to his Dad too, and he said he farmed
>for 50 years in the area and never noticed something like that.
>
>Is it possible this could be meteor dust? I know this is a long shot.
>Maybe its just something in the ground and they never noticed it until
>they heard about the meteor. Just wanted to know if anyone had ever
>heard of anything like this before / if something like this is
>possible.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From fujmon at mac.com  Wed Sep 23 16:00:20 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:00:20 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-ebay Autumnal Equinox Auction
Message-ID: <EC2D4826-4830-4198-A484-13E3D9D2BBB9@mac.com>

Okay, equinox was yesterday, which marks the beginning of our fall  
season in the northern hemisphere.  So in celebration of our planet's  
travels around the sun, I have some items up for auction on ebay  
ending this Saturday 11 am PDT.  Up for grabs are:

NWA 869 - thumbprinted individuals
NWA x - unclassified oriented individuals
Sah 02500 - 210g individual
Chergach - 10.08g pyramid
Bassikounou - 5.05g perfect FC
Allende CV3 - 0.76g pea+paper
Olivine Bomb - 602g green olivine

http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

I had some issues with thumbnail images showing up on search results,  
so hits have been low on this batch - many items are still at 99?   
Good luck and good bidding

Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Sep 23 16:11:23 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:11:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MESSENGER Spacecraft Prepares for Final Pass by
	Mercury
Message-ID: <200909232011.n8NKBNjp011070@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



Sept. 23, 2009

Dwayne Brown 
Headquarters, Washington 
202-358-1726 
dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov 

Paulette Campbell 
Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory, Laurel, Md. 
240-228-6792 
paulette.campbell at jhuapl.edu 

RELEASE: 09-221

MESSENGER SPACECRAFT PREPARES FOR FINAL PASS BY MERCURY

WASHINGTON -- NASA's Mercury Surface, Space Environment, Geochemistry, 
and Ranging spacecraft known as MESSENGER will fly by Mercury for the 
third and final time on Sept. 29. The spacecraft will pass less than 
142 miles above the planet's rocky surface for a final gravity assist 
that will enable it to enter Mercury's orbit in 2011. 

Determining the composition of Mercury's surface is a major goal of 
the orbital phase of the mission. The spacecraft already has imaged 
more than 90 percent of the planet's surface. The spacecraft's team 
will activate instruments during this flyby to view specific features 
to uncover more information about the planet. 

"This flyby will be our last close look at the equatorial regions of 
Mercury, and it is our final planetary gravity assist, so it is 
important for the entire encounter to be executed as planned," said 
Sean Solomon, principal investigator at the Carnegie Institution in 
Washington. "As enticing as these flybys have been for discovering 
some of Mercury's secrets, they are the hors d'oeuvres to the 
mission's main course -- observing Mercury from orbit for an entire 
year." 

The spacecraft may observe how the planet interacts with conditions in 
interplanetary space as a result of activity on the sun. During this 
encounter, high spectral- and high spatial-resolution measurements 
will be taken again of Mercury's tenuous atmosphere and tail. 

"Scans of the planet's comet-like tail will provide important clues 
regarding the processes that maintain the atmosphere and tail," said 
Noam Izenberg, the instrument's scientist at the Johns Hopkins 
University Applied Physics Laboratory, or APL, in Laurel, Md. "The 
Mercury Atmospheric and Surface Composition Spectrometer will give us 
a snapshot of how the distribution of sodium and calcium vary with 
solar and planetary conditions. In addition, we will target the north 
and south polar regions for detailed observations and look for 
several new atmospheric constituents." 

As the spacecraft approaches Mercury, cameras will photograph 
previously unseen terrain. As the spacecraft departs, it will take 
high-resolution images of the southern hemisphere. Scientists expect 
the spacecraft's imaging system to take more than 1,500 pictures. 
Those images will be used to create a mosaic to complement the high 
resolution, northern-hemisphere mosaic obtained during the second 
Mercury flyby. The first flyby took the spacecraft over the eastern 
hemisphere in January 2008, and the second flyby took it over western 
side in October 2008. 

"We are going to collect high resolution, color images of 
scientifically interesting targets that we identified from the second 
flyby," said Ralph McNutt, a project scientist at APL. "The 
spectrometer also will make measurements of those targets at the same 
time." 

Two spacecraft maneuvers will improve the ability of the spacecraft's 
Neutron Spectrometer to detect low-energy neutrons sensitive to the 
abundances of iron and titanium on Mercury's surface. These two 
elements absorb neutrons and are critical to an understanding of how 
the planet and its crust formed. A combination of day and night 
measurements will enable scientists to test the influence that 
planetary surface temperature has on the neutron population. The data 
are important for interpreting measurements that will be made after 
the probe is in orbit around Mercury. 

An altimeter will make a topographic profile along the instrument 
ground track of Mercury's surface. The data gathered will provide 
additional topography of Mercury's surface features for ongoing 
studies of the form and structure of its craters and large faults. 
The information also will extend scientists' equatorial view of 
Mercury's global shape and allow them to confirm the discovery made 
during the first and second flyby that Mercury's equatorial region is 
slightly elliptical. 

The spacecraft has completed nearly three-quarters of its 
4.9-billion-mile journey to enter orbit around Mercury. The trip 
includes more than 15 trips around the sun. In addition to flying by 
Mercury, the spacecraft flew past Earth in August 2005 and Venus in 
October 2006 and June 2007. 

The project is the seventh in NASA's Discovery Program of low-cost, 
scientifically focused space missions. The spacecraft was designed 
and built by APL. The mission also is managed and operated by APL for 
NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington. 

For more information about the mission, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/messenger 
	
-end-



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Sep 23 16:14:48 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:14:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Radar Map of Buried Mars Layers Matches Climate
	Cycles (MRO)
Message-ID: <200909232014.n8NKEmYV012156@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2009-144  

Radar Map of Buried Mars Layers Matches Climate Cycles
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
September 22, 2009

PASADENA, Calif. -- New, three-dimensional imaging of Martian
north-polar ice layers by a radar instrument on NASA's Mars
Reconnaissance Orbiter is consistent with theoretical models of Martian
climate swings during the past few million years.

Alignment of the layering patterns with the modeled climate cycles
provides insight about how the layers accumulated. These ice-rich,
layered deposits cover an area one-third larger than Texas and form a
stack up to 2 kilometers (1.2 miles) thick atop a basal deposit with
additional ice.

"Contrast in electrical properties between layers is what provides the
reflectivity we observe with the radar," said Nathaniel Putzig of
Southwest Research Institute, Boulder, Colo., a member of the science
team for the Shallow Radar instrument on the orbiter. "The pattern of
reflectivity tells us about the pattern of material variations within
the layers."

Earlier radar observations indicated that the Martian north-polar
layered deposits are mostly ice. Radar contrasts between different
layers in the deposits are interpreted as differences in the
concentration of rock material, in the form of dust, mixed with the ice.
These deposits on Mars hold about one-third as much water as Earth's
Greenland ice sheet.

Putzig and nine co-authors report findings from 358 radar observations
in a paper accepted for publication by the journal Icarus and currently
available online.

Their radar results provide a cross-sectional view of the north-polar
layered deposits of Mars, showing that high-reflectivity zones, with
multiple contrasting layers, alternate with more-homogeneous zones of
lower reflectivity. Patterns of how these two types of zones alternate
can be correlated to models of how changes in Mars' tilt on its axis
have produced changes in the planet's climate in the past 4 million
years or so, but only if some possibilities for how the layers form are
ruled out.

"We're not doing the climate modeling here; we are comparing others'
modeling results to what we observe with the radar, and using that
comparison to constrain the possible explanations for how the layers
form," Putzig said.

The most recent 300,000 years of Martian history are a period of less
dramatic swings in the planet's tilt than during the preceding 600,000
years. Since the top zone of the north-polar layered deposits -- the
most recently deposited portion -- is strongly radar-reflective, the
researchers propose that such sections of high-contrast layering
correspond to periods of relatively small swings in the planet's tilt.

They also propose a mechanism for how those contrasting layers would
form. The observed pattern does not fit well with an earlier
interpretation that the dustier layers in those zones are formed during
high-tilt periods when sunshine on the polar region sublimates some of
the top layer's ice and concentrates the dust left behind. Rather, it
fits an alternative interpretation that the dustier layers are simply
deposited during periods when the atmosphere is dustier.

The new radar mapping of the extent and depth of five stacked units in
the north-polar layered deposits reveals that the geographical center of
ice deposition probably shifted by 400 kilometers (250 miles) or more at
least once during the past few million years.

"The radar has been giving us spectacular results," said Jeffrey Plaut
of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., a co-author of
the paper. "We have mapped continuous underground layers in three
dimensions across a vast area."

The Italian Space Agency operates the Shallow Radar instrument, which it
provided for NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. The orbiter has been
studying Mars with six advanced instruments since 2006. It has returned
more data from the planet than all other past and current missions to
Mars combined. For more information about the mission, visit:
http://www.nasa.gov/mro .

JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena,
manages the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter for NASA's Science Mission
Directorate, Washington. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver, is the
prime contractor for the project and built the spacecraft.

Guy Webster 818-354-6278
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov

Maria Martinez 210-522-3305
Southwest Research Institute, San Antonio, Texas
maria.martinez at swri.org

Dwayne Brown 202-358-1726
NASA Headquarters, Washington
dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov

2009-144



From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 23 16:11:45 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 13:11:45 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
In-Reply-To: <ce9.60610aa3.37ebc3fe@aol.com>
References: <ce9.60610aa3.37ebc3fe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W6306D4FEF4FB9F77CE251BD2DB0@phx.gbl>


Mike:

I have used the nickel allergy test as well and it did not seem to be that reliable.? I had an iron meteorite and it did not test positive for nickel.? However, I did have a small nugget of nickel where it did test positive.? Maybe there needs to be a high concentration in the metal.

Does any one on the list 'know' of a reliable way to test for nickel?

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> From: GeoZay at aol.com
> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:33:34 -0400
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
>
>>>I've done some nickel tests on some of the slag/meteor wrongs we have
> found.
>
> It tests positive for nickel.
>
> Does this sound normal?>>
>
>
> It all depends...were they buffalo heads, Jefferson or those new fangled
> ones? :O)
> GeoZay
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web.  Try  Bing? now
http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1

From GeoZay at aol.com  Wed Sep 23 16:21:01 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:21:01 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
Message-ID: <c04.6a6a89ab.37ebdd2d@aol.com>

>>Does any one on the list 'know' of a  reliable way to test for nickel?<<

I don't know if the average  person can acquire the various chemicals, but 
in the back of O. Richard Norton's  book Rocks From Space, there is the 
recipe to making up a test for nickel found  in meteorites. On the side I 
suggested to Mike Hankey to perhaps approach a high  school chemistry teacher for 
assistance and perhaps one will help you make up a  test?
geoZay  



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Wed Sep 23 17:19:41 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:19:41 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909231127g58266734o55987aeabf00dd69@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0a794130909231127g58266734o55987aeabf00dd69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ABA90ED.7090207@meteoritesusa.com>

Hey Mike,

I've used the nickel allergy test as well with mixed results.

Sometimes is works sometimes it doesn't. In fact I would say it is not 
reliable most of the time unless you have a good control specimen.

I kept getting false positives and even negative results on known 
meteorites. In fact I took a Canyon Diablo iron that I had sliced and 
tested it for nickel. Hmmmm imagine my surprise when it showed NO 
results. I figure the test kit was old or out dated but whatever. The 
point is it didn't work on a 100% genuine meteorite, why would I trust 
it with something I'm not sure of?

There are nickel tests that work, but I have not tested many of them. 
Your best bet is to test your test kit. Testing against a known 
authentic meteorite is a good method. Then test against your "possible" 
meteorite. Your results will be more reliable because now you have a 
control specimen to compare results.

Hope this helps...

Regards,
Eric





Mike Hankey wrote:
> I've done some nickel tests on some of the slag/meteor wrongs we have found.
>
> It tests positive for nickel.
>
> Does this sound normal?
>
> So I guess the only way to confirm slag (if you can't do it visually)
> is to cut it open and if there are holes / bubbles then it is slag. Or
> if the slice doesn't look like a meteorite slice it is slag.
>
> For the record, I am personally looking for west like fusion crusted
> stones and this is what I am training people to look for. At the same
> time when I get reports about weird rocks I have to follow up and take
> a look. Not all slag looks the same, there are a lot of different
> types. I'm getting pretty good at identifying / ruling things out, but
> the nickel test threw me for a loop.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   



From stanleygregr at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 23 18:09:23 2009
From: stanleygregr at hotmail.com (Greg Stanley)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:09:23 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
In-Reply-To: <4ABA90ED.7090207@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <f0a794130909231127g58266734o55987aeabf00dd69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W458ADD5BB22DECBEEB1844D2DB0@phx.gbl>


 <4ABA90ED.7090207 at meteoritesusa.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0


Eric:

That's really funny - I also got a false negative on a Canyon Diablo specim=
en.

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> Date: Wed=2C 23 Sep 2009 14:19:41 -0700
> From: eric at meteoritesusa.com
> To: mike.hankey at gmail.com
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
>
> Hey Mike=2C
>
> I've used the nickel allergy test as well with mixed results.
>
> Sometimes is works sometimes it doesn't. In fact I would say it is not
> reliable most of the time unless you have a good control specimen.
>
> I kept getting false positives and even negative results on known
> meteorites. In fact I took a Canyon Diablo iron that I had sliced and
> tested it for nickel. Hmmmm imagine my surprise when it showed NO
> results. I figure the test kit was old or out dated but whatever. The
> point is it didn't work on a 100% genuine meteorite=2C why would I trust
> it with something I'm not sure of?
>
> There are nickel tests that work=2C but I have not tested many of them.
> Your best bet is to test your test kit. Testing against a known
> authentic meteorite is a good method. Then test against your "possible"
> meteorite. Your results will be more reliable because now you have a
> control specimen to compare results.
>
> Hope this helps...
>
> Regards=2C
> Eric
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike Hankey wrote:
>> I've done some nickel tests on some of the slag/meteor wrongs we have fo=
und.
>>
>> It tests positive for nickel.
>>
>> Does this sound normal?
>>
>> So I guess the only way to confirm slag (if you can't do it visually)
>> is to cut it open and if there are holes / bubbles then it is slag. Or
>> if the slice doesn't look like a meteorite slice it is slag.
>>
>> For the record=2C I am personally looking for west like fusion crusted
>> stones and this is what I am training people to look for. At the same
>> time when I get reports about weird rocks I have to follow up and take
>> a look. Not all slag looks the same=2C there are a lot of different
>> types. I'm getting pretty good at identifying / ruling things out=2C but
>> the nickel test threw me for a loop.
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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orial_QuickAdd_062009=


From marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Sep 23 17:42:02 2009
From: marc.d.fries at jpl.nasa.gov (Fries, Marc D (3225))
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:42:02 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
In-Reply-To: <4ABA90ED.7090207@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <C6DFE43A.C04C%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>

I've also had mixed results with the nickel allergy kit, but I think I've
figured out how to get reasonably reliable results.

I think the problem is that the companies who make these things probably
have liability lawyers telling them to err on the side of false positives
(which won't really cause them trouble) rather than on sensitivity (which
might put them in court defending against a false negative result).  This
means that false positives will occur.

You have to liberate nickel from the sample to detect it.  Weathering can do
this for you, which means that you might not detect nickel in a fresh sample
face, especially for a polished iron meteorite.

So here's what I've found that seems to work:

- start with the unknown sample and a known meteorite - an NWA unk will do
as long as you are sure it is a meteorite
- place a drop of vinegar on both samples
- wait five minutes, so that the acid will dissolve some nickel
- do the nickel test on both drops of vinegar
- wait five minutes, and don't get excited if they're both red at first
- compare the results

In the event of a false positive, the swab will start out red and then fade.
The known meteorite should stay red.  If they both stay red and look about
the same after five minutes, you've got a good case for nickel in the
unknown sample.

That's my take; I'm certain there is a lot of experience out there on this
topic.

Cheers,
MDF



On 9/23/09 2:19 PM, "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:

> Hey Mike,
> 
> I've used the nickel allergy test as well with mixed results.
> 
> Sometimes is works sometimes it doesn't. In fact I would say it is not
> reliable most of the time unless you have a good control specimen.
> 
> I kept getting false positives and even negative results on known
> meteorites. In fact I took a Canyon Diablo iron that I had sliced and
> tested it for nickel. Hmmmm imagine my surprise when it showed NO
> results. I figure the test kit was old or out dated but whatever. The
> point is it didn't work on a 100% genuine meteorite, why would I trust
> it with something I'm not sure of?
> 
> There are nickel tests that work, but I have not tested many of them.
> Your best bet is to test your test kit. Testing against a known
> authentic meteorite is a good method. Then test against your "possible"
> meteorite. Your results will be more reliable because now you have a
> control specimen to compare results.
> 
> Hope this helps...
> 
> Regards,
> Eric
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike Hankey wrote:
>> I've done some nickel tests on some of the slag/meteor wrongs we have found.
>> 
>> It tests positive for nickel.
>> 
>> Does this sound normal?
>> 
>> So I guess the only way to confirm slag (if you can't do it visually)
>> is to cut it open and if there are holes / bubbles then it is slag. Or
>> if the slice doesn't look like a meteorite slice it is slag.
>> 
>> For the record, I am personally looking for west like fusion crusted
>> stones and this is what I am training people to look for. At the same
>> time when I get reports about weird rocks I have to follow up and take
>> a look. Not all slag looks the same, there are a lot of different
>> types. I'm getting pretty good at identifying / ruling things out, but
>> the nickel test threw me for a loop.
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> 
>>  
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Wed Sep 23 19:14:53 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:14:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - September 23, 2009
Message-ID: <200909232314.n8NNEr75019110@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES
September 23, 2009

o Santa Fe Crater Impact Processes
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014351_1995

o Large Central Uplift of an Impact Crater
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014176_1810

o Patchy Ice
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014169_0955

o Ferric Oxide-Rich Deposit in East Candor Chasma
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014154_1730

o Phyllosilicate Diversity North of Mawrth Vallis
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_014139_2070  

o Fading Rover Tracks Near Victoria Crater
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_013954_1780

All of the HiRISE images are archived here:

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/

Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is 
online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is 
managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division 
of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA 
Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed 
Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor 
and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the 
University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies 
Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument.



From darryl at dof3.com  Wed Sep 23 18:45:11 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:45:11 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
In-Reply-To: <C6DFE43A.C04C%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>
References: <C6DFE43A.C04C%Marc.D.Fries@jpl.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <525FAD66-398B-4507-AEDD-7AAFDAC8922E@dof3.com>



Further to what Marc mentioned, I've experienced false negatives which  
were remedied by having first applied a few drops of dilute HCl on the  
target surface.





On Sep 23, 2009, at 5:42 PM, Fries, Marc D (3225) wrote:

> I've also had mixed results with the nickel allergy kit, but I think  
> I've
> figured out how to get reasonably reliable results.
>
> I think the problem is that the companies who make these things  
> probably
> have liability lawyers telling them to err on the side of false  
> positives
> (which won't really cause them trouble) rather than on sensitivity  
> (which
> might put them in court defending against a false negative result).   
> This
> means that false positives will occur.
>
> You have to liberate nickel from the sample to detect it.   
> Weathering can do
> this for you, which means that you might not detect nickel in a  
> fresh sample
> face, especially for a polished iron meteorite.
>
> So here's what I've found that seems to work:
>
> - start with the unknown sample and a known meteorite - an NWA unk  
> will do
> as long as you are sure it is a meteorite
> - place a drop of vinegar on both samples
> - wait five minutes, so that the acid will dissolve some nickel
> - do the nickel test on both drops of vinegar
> - wait five minutes, and don't get excited if they're both red at  
> first
> - compare the results
>
> In the event of a false positive, the swab will start out red and  
> then fade.
> The known meteorite should stay red.  If they both stay red and look  
> about
> the same after five minutes, you've got a good case for nickel in the
> unknown sample.
>
> That's my take; I'm certain there is a lot of experience out there  
> on this
> topic.
>
> Cheers,
> MDF
>
>
>
> On 9/23/09 2:19 PM, "Meteorites USA" <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey Mike,
>>
>> I've used the nickel allergy test as well with mixed results.
>>
>> Sometimes is works sometimes it doesn't. In fact I would say it is  
>> not
>> reliable most of the time unless you have a good control specimen.
>>
>> I kept getting false positives and even negative results on known
>> meteorites. In fact I took a Canyon Diablo iron that I had sliced and
>> tested it for nickel. Hmmmm imagine my surprise when it showed NO
>> results. I figure the test kit was old or out dated but whatever. The
>> point is it didn't work on a 100% genuine meteorite, why would I  
>> trust
>> it with something I'm not sure of?
>>
>> There are nickel tests that work, but I have not tested many of them.
>> Your best bet is to test your test kit. Testing against a known
>> authentic meteorite is a good method. Then test against your  
>> "possible"
>> meteorite. Your results will be more reliable because now you have a
>> control specimen to compare results.
>>
>> Hope this helps...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike Hankey wrote:
>>> I've done some nickel tests on some of the slag/meteor wrongs we  
>>> have found.
>>>
>>> It tests positive for nickel.
>>>
>>> Does this sound normal?
>>>
>>> So I guess the only way to confirm slag (if you can't do it  
>>> visually)
>>> is to cut it open and if there are holes / bubbles then it is  
>>> slag. Or
>>> if the slice doesn't look like a meteorite slice it is slag.
>>>
>>> For the record, I am personally looking for west like fusion crusted
>>> stones and this is what I am training people to look for. At the  
>>> same
>>> time when I get reports about weird rocks I have to follow up and  
>>> take
>>> a look. Not all slag looks the same, there are a lot of different
>>> types. I'm getting pretty good at identifying / ruling things out,  
>>> but
>>> the nickel test threw me for a loop.
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 23 19:46:29 2009
From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:46:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
In-Reply-To: <20063822.1253733072734.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <997289.16664.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

No, it's the DNA of space aliens delivered by panspermia, just like that red dust found in india a while back.

(or more likely, what you said, something they never noticed before or what Sterling said...which I think is what the alien DNA truned out to be in India)

--- On Wed, 9/23/09, countdeiro at earthlink.net <countdeiro at earthlink.net> wrote:

> From: countdeiro at earthlink.net <countdeiro at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
> To: "Mike Hankey" <mike.hankey at gmail.com>, "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Wednesday, September 23, 2009, 8:11 PM
> It's Agent Orange. Stay away from it.
> I sprayed it all over the Nam. It kills. First it chemically
> castrates you.
> 
> Guido ;o)? 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
> >Sent: Sep 23, 2009 2:34 PM
> >To: meteoritelist <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
> >
> >This report came from a farmer. I don't have an answer
> for it (its
> >probably BS), but I wanted to throw it out there.
> >
> >Guy is in the area. He had some meteor wrongs. While I
> was there, he
> >said he had noticed a strange 'orange/rust colored
> dust' that showed
> >up one day covering the top of one of his large
> gardens. It was a
> >pretty huge garden and there was orange dust all over
> it. Most of it
> >had washed away by the time I got there, but there were
> still spots
> >that had it. I took a sample but haven't done anything
> with it.
> >
> >Guy said he has been farming the same land for close to
> 10 years and
> >had never noticed it. I talked to his Dad too, and he
> said he farmed
> >for 50 years in the area and never noticed something
> like that.
> >
> >Is it possible this could be meteor dust? I know this
> is a long shot.
> >Maybe its just something in the ground and they never
> noticed it until
> >they heard about the meteor. Just wanted to know if
> anyone had ever
> >heard of anything like this before / if something like
> this is
> >possible.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Mike
> >______________________________________________
> >http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >Meteorite-list mailing list
> >Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 19:55:51 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:55:51 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] (AD) - Moldavite, Rocks from Space (Book),
	Noblesville, MAPS 	journals, and some fossils.
Message-ID: <e51421550909231655t781ecb97yb17e70ecd63963ac@mail.gmail.com>

Hi List,

I have a few items in my inventory that are open to fair offers -

NASA Noblesville lithographs -
http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126931/Noblesville--Rare-NASA-Lithographs-of-Famous-Witnessed-Fall_974654.html

Meteorite Magazine Aug 2006 -
http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126931/Meteorite-Magazine--August-2006_977897.html

Faceted Moldavite Gemstones -
http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126511/Brilliant-Green-Czech-Moldavite-Faceted-Gemstone--Oval-Cuts_968838.html

Signed Rocks from Space by Norton -
http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/152033/SIGNED--Rocks-from-Space-by-O-Richard-Norton_977849.html

NWA Type Collector Kit in Riker Box -
http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126509/NWA-Type-Collectors-Kit--5-Choice-Types-in-a-Riker-Display_961153.html

NWA 3151 Brachinite -
http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/126509/Rare-NWA-3151--True-Brachinite-Achondrite-Meteorite_955425.html

--------------------------

I also have trinitite (atom bomb glass) in several sizes -
http://www.galactic-stone.com/products/Trinitite_126571/?page1

$20 micromounts in gemjars
$45 larger pieces in labelled Riker box
$75 for resale lots

--------------------------

Thanks for looking and clear skies! :)

MikeG

-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From darryl at dof3.com  Wed Sep 23 20:18:42 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:18:42 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Viacheslav Kalachev Info Sought
Message-ID: <0EBEC90B-3518-4491-B043-F0D6C7BE26C5@dof3.com>



Hi,

Does anyone have Viacheslav Kalachev's email?

Thanks so much.

DP





From prairiecactus at rtcol.com  Wed Sep 23 20:58:04 2009
From: prairiecactus at rtcol.com (Phil Whitmer)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:58:04 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
Message-ID: <C9106DF399C247F9B0126DD86CBDE2B8@whitmerjbqtim1>

The Orange  Dust Incident:

Giant orange dust clouds over Australia,  orange dust on the ground in  a 
purported bolide impact zone.  Coincidence?, or .....  (cue the theramin 
music), yet another in a long line of UFO Conspiracy coverups orchestrated 
by Majic 12 and the scattered remnants of the Illuminatii.




Phil Whitmer 



From mmurray at montrose.net  Wed Sep 23 20:50:51 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:50:51 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909231127g58266734o55987aeabf00dd69@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f0a794130909231127g58266734o55987aeabf00dd69@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8FEE66C0-582E-4F9B-84DA-ADFEC33B74A7@montrose.net>

For what they are worth, here are a couple suggestions...
If you place the suspect iron on a strong magnet, then remove the  
magnet, the suspect iron should not retain magnetism (if it's a  
meteorite) but should to some extent if man-made iron. Kind of like  
magnetizing the tip of a screwdriver.  You can test the once  
magnetized suspect iron to see if it will attract fine particles of  
magnetite,   Not very scientific I know but it is a good indicator I  
think.

Another thing you can try if the suspect iron is not very big is to  
place it on a strong magnet (super magnet if you have one) and if the  
iron piece wants to orient itself up on one of it's ends on the  
magnet, I would rule out meteorite.  If your suspect iron is large,  
you'd probably have to remove a small piece of it to do this test.  If  
the small piece lays down on any of it's sides on the magnet and  
doesn't want to orient itself, I'd put it in my 'it's a keeper for  
more testing' pile.

I bought a couple nickel test kits.  I have tried to be as careful as  
possible to do a clean uncontaminated test on several suspect irons.   
After doing quite a few, I still don't trust the results.  It's not  
that I don't get positives, I do.  It's that I've learned not trust  
the positive tests all that much.  If I find a big enough suspect iron  
someday with enough other indicators that it could be a meteorite then  
I will let a lab do the testing so I can rest assured the results are  
going to be more trustworthy than mine.  Meanwhile, my 'it's a keeper  
for more testing' pile continues to grow.

Mike in CO

On Sep 23, 2009, at 12:27 PM, Mike Hankey wrote:

> I've done some nickel tests on some of the slag/meteor wrongs we  
> have found.
>
> It tests positive for nickel.
>
> Does this sound normal?
>
> So I guess the only way to confirm slag (if you can't do it visually)
> is to cut it open and if there are holes / bubbles then it is slag. Or
> if the slice doesn't look like a meteorite slice it is slag.
>
> For the record, I am personally looking for west like fusion crusted
> stones and this is what I am training people to look for. At the same
> time when I get reports about weird rocks I have to follow up and take
> a look. Not all slag looks the same, there are a lot of different
> types. I'm getting pretty good at identifying / ruling things out, but
> the nickel test threw me for a loop.
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From felipeg36 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 21:20:52 2009
From: felipeg36 at gmail.com (Felipe Guajardo)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:20:52 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] TEST
Message-ID: <18fdccaa0909231820v7c6fb7akf8fe7aa8f61eab2e@mail.gmail.com>

Please disregard...


From damoclid at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 23 21:54:16 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:54:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
In-Reply-To: <C9106DF399C247F9B0126DD86CBDE2B8@whitmerjbqtim1>
Message-ID: <97734.16134.qm@web33903.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Orange skies and dust fallouts are not that uncommon in Florida this time of year. The dust comes from the Sahara.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/view.php?id=18545&oldid=14334

I suspect that this is a much greater amount to leave a coating as described. I'd guess it is much more rare to have any dust croossing the Atlantic as far north as Mike's location.

Of course westward moving dust from Asia is pretty common in the western US

http://www.lakepowell.net/asiandust.htm


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081



      


From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 23 21:56:44 2009
From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:56:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
In-Reply-To: <C9106DF399C247F9B0126DD86CBDE2B8@whitmerjbqtim1>
Message-ID: <264059.34682.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Yeah, I made this mental link too, although I hear the dust over cities in Australia is red, isn't it? That, also is known to come from the outback desert.

I remember as a child, dust form the Sahara being blown up to Northern Europe. I even remember seening it on the headlights of a car that hadn't moved for a while. Probably the late 1970s. Never seem to see that these days. Is it a really rare occurance or did it used to happen often back then?

Rob

--- On Thu, 9/24/09, Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com> wrote:

> From: Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 1:58 AM
> The Orange? Dust Incident:
> 
> Giant orange dust clouds over Australia,? orange dust
> on the ground in? a purported bolide impact zone.?
> Coincidence?, or .....? (cue the theramin music), yet
> another in a long line of UFO Conspiracy coverups
> orchestrated by Majic 12 and the scattered remnants of the
> Illuminatii.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phil Whitmer 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From bandk at chorus.net  Wed Sep 23 22:01:25 2009
From: bandk at chorus.net (Becky and Kirk)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:01:25 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
References: <264059.34682.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A0FF20EBD2894AB2B15353570DC81AB0@owner55652f88b>

Hi All,
     On TV a bit ago, a 74 year old man in Australia said he that he had 
never seen, in his lifetime, such a huge red dust storm of this magnitude.
Kirk........
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
To: "Phil Whitmer" <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust


Yeah, I made this mental link too, although I hear the dust over cities in 
Australia is red, isn't it? That, also is known to come from the outback 
desert.

I remember as a child, dust form the Sahara being blown up to Northern 
Europe. I even remember seening it on the headlights of a car that hadn't 
moved for a while. Probably the late 1970s. Never seem to see that these 
days. Is it a really rare occurance or did it used to happen often back 
then?

Rob

--- On Thu, 9/24/09, Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com> wrote:

> From: Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 1:58 AM
> The Orange Dust Incident:
>
> Giant orange dust clouds over Australia, orange dust
> on the ground in a purported bolide impact zone.
> Coincidence?, or ..... (cue the theramin music), yet
> another in a long line of UFO Conspiracy coverups
> orchestrated by Majic 12 and the scattered remnants of the
> Illuminatii.
>
>
>
>
> Phil Whitmer
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From mmurray at montrose.net  Wed Sep 23 23:24:20 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:24:20 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
In-Reply-To: <20090923223134.OPYG0.331275.imail@fed1rmwml32>
References: <20090923223134.OPYG0.331275.imail@fed1rmwml32>
Message-ID: <D308DDA8-8B5B-44D5-B499-3A11C143FBEF@montrose.net>

Glad you found it useful.  I wanted to share too that native iron  
reacts real close to the same as a meteorite will to the magnetism.   
So you might want to watch for that.    I sent one of about 20 some  
pieces of native iron I have to AZ to a lab and they confirmed that  
that is what it is.  I have learned to tell the difference in the two  
mainly by sight.  Native iron is rougher looking than an iron  
meteorite and some of the pieces I have have a strange mineral habit  
clearly visible on the surface.  BTW, these pieces of native iron do  
not test positive for nickel or at least not for me here with the  
alertest Ni test or at the lab in AZ.   I tried to send some to UCLA  
for a nickel test but they were a little too busy.  I can't blame them  
though for not wanting to take time away from more important things to  
test my little chunk.

Best of luck finding those iron meteorites.

Mike in CO

On Sep 23, 2009, at 8:31 PM, <cdtucson at cox.net> wrote:

> Michael,
> I would first of all like to thank you for this great information.
> Secondly , I would like to tell you that hopefully your test is  
> definitive. As evidence that it is. I just tried to magnetize a  
> bunch of small CD's and Odessa's that I have and none of them became  
> magnetized. This proves you are correct at least for the ones I  
> tried. In addition I also tried to magnetize a couple of prospects  
> that I have and they too did not become magnetized and yet other  
> pieces of found metal that's clearly not meteorite material did  
> become magnetized. You are quite the genius and thank you so very  
> much for sharing. Thank you again and again. Carl
> PS they claim if results can be replicated that theory becomes fact?  
> I hope this is now a fact because a few found irons might just get  
> added to the "it's a keeper for more testing pile."
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
>
>
> ---- Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net> wrote:
>> For what they are worth, here are a couple suggestions...
>> If you place the suspect iron on a strong magnet, then remove the
>> magnet, the suspect iron should not retain magnetism (if it's a
>> meteorite) but should to some extent if man-made iron. Kind of like
>> magnetizing the tip of a screwdriver.  You can test the once
>> magnetized suspect iron to see if it will attract fine particles of
>> magnetite,   Not very scientific I know but it is a good indicator I
>> think.
>>
>> Another thing you can try if the suspect iron is not very big is to
>> place it on a strong magnet (super magnet if you have one) and if the
>> iron piece wants to orient itself up on one of it's ends on the
>> magnet, I would rule out meteorite.  If your suspect iron is large,
>> you'd probably have to remove a small piece of it to do this test.   
>> If
>> the small piece lays down on any of it's sides on the magnet and
>> doesn't want to orient itself, I'd put it in my 'it's a keeper for
>> more testing' pile.
>>
>> I bought a couple nickel test kits.  I have tried to be as careful as
>> possible to do a clean uncontaminated test on several suspect irons.
>> After doing quite a few, I still don't trust the results.  It's not
>> that I don't get positives, I do.  It's that I've learned not trust
>> the positive tests all that much.  If I find a big enough suspect  
>> iron
>> someday with enough other indicators that it could be a meteorite  
>> then
>> I will let a lab do the testing so I can rest assured the results are
>> going to be more trustworthy than mine.  Meanwhile, my 'it's a keeper
>> for more testing' pile continues to grow.
>>
>> Mike in CO
>>
>> On Sep 23, 2009, at 12:27 PM, Mike Hankey wrote:
>>
>>> I've done some nickel tests on some of the slag/meteor wrongs we
>>> have found.
>>>
>>> It tests positive for nickel.
>>>
>>> Does this sound normal?
>>>
>>> So I guess the only way to confirm slag (if you can't do it  
>>> visually)
>>> is to cut it open and if there are holes / bubbles then it is  
>>> slag. Or
>>> if the slice doesn't look like a meteorite slice it is slag.
>>>
>>> For the record, I am personally looking for west like fusion crusted
>>> stones and this is what I am training people to look for. At the  
>>> same
>>> time when I get reports about weird rocks I have to follow up and  
>>> take
>>> a look. Not all slag looks the same, there are a lot of different
>>> types. I'm getting pretty good at identifying / ruling things out,  
>>> but
>>> the nickel test threw me for a loop.
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From John at Cabassi.net  Wed Sep 23 22:36:50 2009
From: John at Cabassi.net (John.L.Cabassi)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:36:50 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
In-Reply-To: <A0FF20EBD2894AB2B15353570DC81AB0@owner55652f88b>
Message-ID: <000001ca3cbf$defb9450$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2>

G'Day List
A mate of mine posted this on our meteorite forum, he was in the thick
of it in Broken Hill.  Awesome stuff!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrlD22HwPvI

Cheers
John

-----Original Message-----
From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Becky
and Kirk
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:01 PM
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust


Hi All,
     On TV a bit ago, a 74 year old man in Australia said he that he had

never seen, in his lifetime, such a huge red dust storm of this
magnitude. Kirk........
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
To: "Phil Whitmer" <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust


Yeah, I made this mental link too, although I hear the dust over cities
in 
Australia is red, isn't it? That, also is known to come from the outback

desert.

I remember as a child, dust form the Sahara being blown up to Northern 
Europe. I even remember seening it on the headlights of a car that
hadn't 
moved for a while. Probably the late 1970s. Never seem to see that these

days. Is it a really rare occurance or did it used to happen often back 
then?

Rob

--- On Thu, 9/24/09, Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com> wrote:

> From: Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 1:58 AM
> The Orange Dust Incident:
>
> Giant orange dust clouds over Australia, orange dust
> on the ground in a purported bolide impact zone. Coincidence?, or 
> ..... (cue the theramin music), yet another in a long line of UFO 
> Conspiracy coverups orchestrated by Majic 12 and the scattered 
> remnants of the Illuminatii.
>
>
>
>
> Phil Whitmer
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From mike.hankey at gmail.com  Wed Sep 23 23:59:58 2009
From: mike.hankey at gmail.com (Mike Hankey)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:59:58 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
In-Reply-To: <000001ca3cbf$defb9450$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2>
References: <A0FF20EBD2894AB2B15353570DC81AB0@owner55652f88b>
	<000001ca3cbf$defb9450$a166fea9@anitak9bz49jy2>
Message-ID: <f0a794130909232059y1627b32es85459966806be0d6@mail.gmail.com>

wow that is spooky.

On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:36 PM, John.L.Cabassi <John at cabassi.net> wrote:
> G'Day List
> A mate of mine posted this on our meteorite forum, he was in the thick
> of it in Broken Hill. ?Awesome stuff!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrlD22HwPvI
>
> Cheers
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Becky
> and Kirk
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:01 PM
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
>
>
> Hi All,
> ? ? On TV a bit ago, a 74 year old man in Australia said he that he had
>
> never seen, in his lifetime, such a huge red dust storm of this
> magnitude. Kirk........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
> To: "Phil Whitmer" <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>;
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
>
>
> Yeah, I made this mental link too, although I hear the dust over cities
> in
> Australia is red, isn't it? That, also is known to come from the outback
>
> desert.
>
> I remember as a child, dust form the Sahara being blown up to Northern
> Europe. I even remember seening it on the headlights of a car that
> hadn't
> moved for a while. Probably the late 1970s. Never seem to see that these
>
> days. Is it a really rare occurance or did it used to happen often back
> then?
>
> Rob
>
> --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>
>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 1:58 AM
>> The Orange Dust Incident:
>>
>> Giant orange dust clouds over Australia, orange dust
>> on the ground in a purported bolide impact zone. Coincidence?, or
>> ..... (cue the theramin music), yet another in a long line of UFO
>> Conspiracy coverups orchestrated by Majic 12 and the scattered
>> remnants of the Illuminatii.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Phil Whitmer
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 24 03:49:25 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 00:49:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] ad Kt material
Message-ID: <244568.31781.qm@web33205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

After reading Phils post i decided to dig in my old coffee can and put some kt boundary material up for bid at  a more reasonable price. If any listee's are interested in museum sized specimins of a foot square or larger  which may or may not contain  both layers  the upper layer is thinner and about 1 1/4 inch above the lower layer. I have one pice which is about 4 sq feet and weighs  a bunch as i have never weighed it and its still stuck to the limestone. i would guess about 130 lbs as i cant lift much more than that.
heres one ebay link
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160364801339&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

have a great day

Steve


      


From sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 24 04:15:35 2009
From: sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com (Steve Dunklee)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 01:15:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] KT boundary material
Message-ID: <141746.71095.qm@web33203.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

After reading Phil's post I put some KT material up for auction on Ebay at more reasonable prices. If anyoune wants any larger museum sized specimens contact me off list. I have some of several sq feet.

cheers
Steve


      


From info at meteorites.com.au  Thu Sep 24 04:19:35 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 18:19:35 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
In-Reply-To: <C9106DF399C247F9B0126DD86CBDE2B8@whitmerjbqtim1>
References: <C9106DF399C247F9B0126DD86CBDE2B8@whitmerjbqtim1>
Message-ID: <C0E45A1335364AF78128409AECD3D7FE@JeffPC>

;-)

This pic recently in from the Terra satellite:

http://rapidfire.sci.gsfc.nasa.gov/gallery/?2009266-0923/Australia.A2009266.0005.2km.jpg

Cheers,

Jeff


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Phil Whitmer" <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:58 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust


> The Orange  Dust Incident:
>
> Giant orange dust clouds over Australia,  orange dust on the ground in  a 
> purported bolide impact zone.  Coincidence?, or .....  (cue the theramin 
> music), yet another in a long line of UFO Conspiracy coverups orchestrated 
> by Majic 12 and the scattered remnants of the Illuminatii.
>
>
>
>
> Phil Whitmer
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> 



From Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de  Thu Sep 24 05:07:06 2009
From: Carsten.Giessler at t-online.de (Carsten Giessler)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:07:06 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay Auctions Ending
Message-ID: <4ABB36BA.3080905@t-online.de>

Hola List,

i have a few Auctions at ebay ending today,
also there are some new specimens listed in the ebay-store.

Please take a look here:

http://shop.ebay.com/gipometeorites/m.html?LH_Auction=1&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3911.c0.m301

Many thanks for viewing & have a great day,

Carsten


-- 


Carsten Giessler

Gipometeorites - www.gi-po.de -
email: c-giessler at gi-po.de

Member of the Meteoritical Society
International Society for Meteoritics and Planetary Science

IMCA Member:3457
International Meteorite Collectors Association



From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 24 07:52:08 2009
From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 04:52:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
In-Reply-To: <f0a794130909232059y1627b32es85459966806be0d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <59252.58156.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I thought that first vid may have been faked until I found this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95tmYmeHf84

Crickey!

--- On Thu, 9/24/09, Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
> To: "John.L.Cabassi" <John at cabassi.net>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 4:59 AM
> wow that is spooky.
> 
> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 10:36 PM, John.L.Cabassi <John at cabassi.net>
> wrote:
> > G'Day List
> > A mate of mine posted this on our meteorite forum, he
> was in the thick
> > of it in Broken Hill. ?Awesome stuff!
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrlD22HwPvI
> >
> > Cheers
> > John
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> > [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
> On Behalf Of Becky
> > and Kirk
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:01 PM
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> > ? ? On TV a bit ago, a 74 year old man in Australia
> said he that he had
> >
> > never seen, in his lifetime, such a huge red dust
> storm of this
> > magnitude. Kirk........
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
> > To: "Phil Whitmer" <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>;
> > <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
> >
> >
> > Yeah, I made this mental link too, although I hear the
> dust over cities
> > in
> > Australia is red, isn't it? That, also is known to
> come from the outback
> >
> > desert.
> >
> > I remember as a child, dust form the Sahara being
> blown up to Northern
> > Europe. I even remember seening it on the headlights
> of a car that
> > hadn't
> > moved for a while. Probably the late 1970s. Never seem
> to see that these
> >
> > days. Is it a really rare occurance or did it used to
> happen often back
> > then?
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>
> >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
> >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 1:58 AM
> >> The Orange Dust Incident:
> >>
> >> Giant orange dust clouds over Australia, orange
> dust
> >> on the ground in a purported bolide impact zone.
> Coincidence?, or
> >> ..... (cue the theramin music), yet another in a
> long line of UFO
> >> Conspiracy coverups orchestrated by Majic 12 and
> the scattered
> >> remnants of the Illuminatii.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Phil Whitmer
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From schroer at bigpond.com  Thu Sep 24 09:46:38 2009
From: schroer at bigpond.com (W&S Schroer)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:16:38 +0930
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust eye witness
Message-ID: <030CFCDDEADE4E6C9F5435FB028F6D3C@WERNER>

Hi Rob, list,
I think the video you've seen here 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95tmYmeHf84
was filmed precisely one year before the latest dust storm hit Broken Hill 
two days ago.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrlD22HwPvI

Since I live in Broken Hill I can confirm that the video is no fake. I've 
been through quite a few dust storms in my life but this one was by far the 
worst. It was so bad that the house seemed to be filled with red fog. One 
could not only see but feel, smell and taste the dust and even now, two days 
later, I can still feel it between my fingers while I 'hammer' away on my 
key board.

When the storm finally settled down after about 12 hours, the fine, red dust 
covered everything in my house, and when I say everything I really mean it. 
Not only all floors but also the walls are now decorated with a fine layer 
of dust. It's in the wardrobes, in the cupboards, in our clothing, in all 
electrical appliances, and to my dismay it covers my meteorite collection 
too which I keep in a - as I thought - dust-proof display cabinet.

The good news is that we had a beautiful sunny day today and we got a lot of 
cleaning done.
The bad news is that another storm is on its way and will hit Broken Hill on 
Friday.

Cheers
Werner & Sandra Schroer



From almitt at kconline.com  Thu Sep 24 10:15:00 2009
From: almitt at kconline.com (al mitt)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:15:00 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
In-Reply-To: <59252.58156.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <59252.58156.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <31EAD35662624B17B5F6216608137950@StarmanPC>

Greetings all,

With the winds blowing dust in Australia, it would seem that some unfound 
meteorites may be uncovered. Of course some specimens may be covered over or 
deeper but seems like a good time to go out and hunt or rehunt areas of 
known meteorite strewnfields. Best!

--AL Mitterling 



From astroroks at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 24 11:12:40 2009
From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:12:40 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
In-Reply-To: <59252.58156.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
References: <f0a794130909232059y1627b32es85459966806be0d6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL113-W3909607646324F2EDD1F2CB1DA0@phx.gbl>


 <59252.58156.qm at web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0


Good Morning!  It's very much like the dust bowl of the 30's... But=2C on a=
 positive
note=2C with the removal of so much sand and top soil=2C it may revel new m=
eteorite=20
finds.  The Southeast area of New Mexico had it's topsoil completely remove=
d=2C which
exposed a large number of meteorites.  Check out Roosevelt County or New Me=
xico
in your "Meteorites from A to Z". Anyone ready to go visit out Aussy buddie=
s?
Mother nature can get so angry=2C ask the folks in our Southeast.
Stay safe all...
 New Mexico=2C Dennis
=20
=20

> Date: Thu=2C 24 Sep 2009 04:52:08 -0700
> From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com
> To: mike.hankey at gmail.com=3B meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
>=20
> I thought that first vid may have been faked until I found this one.
>=20
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D95tmYmeHf84
>=20
> Crickey!
>=20
> --- On Thu=2C 9/24/09=2C Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>> From: Mike Hankey <mike.hankey at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
>> To: "John.L.Cabassi" <John at cabassi.net>
>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Thursday=2C September 24=2C 2009=2C 4:59 AM
>> wow that is spooky.
>>=20
>> On Wed=2C Sep 23=2C 2009 at 10:36 PM=2C John.L.Cabassi <John at cabassi.net=
>
>> wrote:
>>> G'Day List
>>> A mate of mine posted this on our meteorite forum=2C he
>> was in the thick
>>> of it in Broken Hill.  Awesome stuff!
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DBrlD22HwPvI
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> John
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]
>> On Behalf Of Becky
>>> and Kirk
>>> Sent: Wednesday=2C September 23=2C 2009 7:01 PM
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi All=2C
>>>     On TV a bit ago=2C a 74 year old man in Australia
>> said he that he had
>>>
>>> never seen=2C in his lifetime=2C such a huge red dust
>> storm of this
>>> magnitude. Kirk........
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Rob McCafferty" <rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "Phil Whitmer" <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>=3B
>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday=2C September 23=2C 2009 8:56 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah=2C I made this mental link too=2C although I hear the
>> dust over cities
>>> in
>>> Australia is red=2C isn't it? That=2C also is known to
>> come from the outback
>>>
>>> desert.
>>>
>>> I remember as a child=2C dust form the Sahara being
>> blown up to Northern
>>> Europe. I even remember seening it on the headlights
>> of a car that
>>> hadn't
>>> moved for a while. Probably the late 1970s. Never seem
>> to see that these
>>>
>>> days. Is it a really rare occurance or did it used to
>> happen often back
>>> then?
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>> --- On Thu=2C 9/24/09=2C Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Phil Whitmer <prairiecactus at rtcol.com>
>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Date: Thursday=2C September 24=2C 2009=2C 1:58 AM
>>>> The Orange Dust Incident:
>>>>
>>>> Giant orange dust clouds over Australia=2C orange
>> dust
>>>> on the ground in a purported bolide impact zone.
>> Coincidence?=2C or
>>>> ..... (cue the theramin music)=2C yet another in a
>> long line of UFO
>>>> Conspiracy coverups orchestrated by Majic 12 and
>> the scattered
>>>> remnants of the Illuminatii.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Phil Whitmer
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  =0A=
_________________________________________________________________=0A=
Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web.  Try  Bing=99 now=0A=
http://www.bing.com?form=3DMFEHPG&publ=3DWLHMTAG&crea=3DTEXT_MFEHPG_Core_ta=
gline_try bing_1x1=


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Sep 24 12:34:05 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:34:05 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Michigan Fireball: Any news?
Message-ID: <4ABB9F7D.80105@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi List,

I know this was probably posted already, but has anyone heard anything 
more on this?

----------------------------------------------------------------
Sept 1st Fireball
----------------------------------------------------------------
Anybody notice a massive fireball come through here?
Posted By The Sault Star
Posted 1 hour ago
   
A former Michigan man is seeking anyone in the Sault Ste. Marie area who 
may have witnessed anything unusual in the skies Sept. 1.

According to numerous accounts, a massive fireball streaked across the 
upper part of Michigan's lower peninsula shortly after 9 p.m. Dozens of 
witnesses describe it alternately growing green and red, and leaving a 
trail of glowing fragments as it traveled eastward. Looking to some like 
a burning jet plan, from some localities it was seen for seven seconds 
and from others deafening sonic booms were heard that rattles home for 
miles.

Reports have come in from as far away as Wisconsin and Sudbury, 
indicating it landed in Michigan. Now, Darryl Pitt believes he can 
triangulate its landing spot more accurately if he got local witnesses.

Pitt is curator of the Macovich Collection in New York City, one of the 
world's largest collection of space rocks. He calls Sault Ste. Marie a 
"perfect observation point" because he needs at least a couple of 
accounts north of the fireball's trajectory to pinpoint a landing spot.

He promises to visit the Sault for a talk and presentation of specimens, 
including from the moon and Mars.

The fireball was news to Sharon Valli, president of the Twin Sault 
Astronomy Club. Valli said the club met last week and no one brought up 
the subject. "That definitely would have come up, because it's a big 
thing," she said.

Anyone with information is asked to call him at 212-302-9200 or email 
darryl at dof3.com

http://www.saultstar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1767790
----------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA


From bencubbin at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 24 13:52:26 2009
From: bencubbin at hotmail.com (Howard Steffic)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:52:26 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
In-Reply-To: <31EAD35662624B17B5F6216608137950@StarmanPC>
References: <59252.58156.qm@web55201.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <COL118-W33E298F77B6111177F25BBB7DA0@phx.gbl>


 <31EAD35662624B17B5F6216608137950 at StarmanPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0


Why bother?  With the restrictive Australian export laws=2C I say let them =
rot on the ground.  That is apparently what the Australian government prefe=
rs.

Howard Steffic=20


> From: almitt at kconline.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thu=2C 24 Sep 2009 10:15:00 -0400
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orange Dust
>=20
> Greetings all=2C
>=20
> With the winds blowing dust in Australia=2C it would seem that some unfou=
nd=20
> meteorites may be uncovered. Of course some specimens may be covered over=
 or=20
> deeper but seems like a good time to go out and hunt or rehunt areas of=20
> known meteorite strewnfields. Best!
>=20
> --AL Mitterling=20
>=20
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  =0A=
_________________________________________________________________=0A=
Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web.  Try  Bing=99 now=0A=
http://www.bing.com?form=3DMFEHPG&publ=3DWLHMTAG&crea=3DTEXT_MFEHPG_Core_ta=
gline_try bing_1x1=


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Thu Sep 24 14:30:06 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 11:30:06 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Water Ice In Fresh Meteorite Craters On Mars
Message-ID: <4ABBBAAE.3020806@meteoritesusa.com>

Scientists See Water Ice in Fresh Meteorite Craters on Mars

Scientists are seeing sub-surface water ice that may be 99 percent pure 
halfway between the north pole and the equator on Mars, thanks to 
quick-turnaround observations from orbit of fresh meteorite impact 
craters on the planet.

University of Arizona:
http://uanews.org/node/27412

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA






From dragonsoup at msn.com  Thu Sep 24 15:08:32 2009
From: dragonsoup at msn.com (Maria Haas)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:08:32 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Michigan Fireball: Any news?
In-Reply-To: <4ABB9F7D.80105@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4ABB9F7D.80105@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <BLU133-W29F7D9FF10B8A167BE839ACDDA0@phx.gbl>


Hi Eric,
 
My emails to you are bouncing. Could you please contact me?

Best wishes,

Maria  
IMCA Member #5520



> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 09:34:05 -0700
> From: eric at meteoritesusa.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Michigan Fireball: Any news?
> 
> Hi List,
> 
> I know this was probably posted already, but has anyone heard anything 
> more on this?
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Sept 1st Fireball
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Anybody notice a massive fireball come through here?
> Posted By The Sault Star
> Posted 1 hour ago
> 
> A former Michigan man is seeking anyone in the Sault Ste. Marie area who 
> may have witnessed anything unusual in the skies Sept. 1.
> 
> According to numerous accounts, a massive fireball streaked across the 
> upper part of Michigan's lower peninsula shortly after 9 p.m. Dozens of 
> witnesses describe it alternately growing green and red, and leaving a 
> trail of glowing fragments as it traveled eastward. Looking to some like 
> a burning jet plan, from some localities it was seen for seven seconds 
> and from others deafening sonic booms were heard that rattles home for 
> miles.
> 
> Reports have come in from as far away as Wisconsin and Sudbury, 
> indicating it landed in Michigan. Now, Darryl Pitt believes he can 
> triangulate its landing spot more accurately if he got local witnesses.
> 
> Pitt is curator of the Macovich Collection in New York City, one of the 
> world's largest collection of space rocks. He calls Sault Ste. Marie a 
> "perfect observation point" because he needs at least a couple of 
> accounts north of the fireball's trajectory to pinpoint a landing spot.
> 
> He promises to visit the Sault for a talk and presentation of specimens, 
> including from the moon and Mars.
> 
> The fireball was news to Sharon Valli, president of the Twin Sault 
> Astronomy Club. Valli said the club met last week and no one brought up 
> the subject. "That definitely would have come up, because it's a big 
> thing," she said.
> 
> Anyone with information is asked to call him at 212-302-9200 or email 
> darryl at dof3.com
> 
> http://www.saultstar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1767790
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 		 	   		  

From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Sep 24 15:18:14 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:18:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] MRO Sees Ice on Mars Exposed by Meteor Impacts
Message-ID: <200909241918.n8OJIEGr008687@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>



Sept. 24, 2009

Dwayne Brown 
Headquarters, Washington 
202-358-1726 
dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov 

Guy Webster 
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. 
818-354-6278 
guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov 

RELEASE: 09-224

NASA SPACECRAFT SEES ICE ON MARS EXPOSED BY METEOR IMPACTS

PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter has revealed 
frozen water hiding just below the surface of mid-latitude Mars. The 
spacecraft's observations were obtained from orbit after meteorites 
excavated fresh craters on the Red Planet. 

Scientists controlling instruments on the orbiter found bright ice 
exposed at five Martian sites with new craters that range in depth 
from approximately 1.5 feet to 8 feet. The craters did not exist in 
earlier images of the same sites. Some of the craters show a thin 
layer of bright ice atop darker underlying material. The bright 
patches darkened in the weeks following initial observations, as the 
freshly exposed ice vaporized into the thin Martian atmosphere. One 
of the new craters had a bright patch of material large enough for 
one of the orbiter's instruments to confirm it is water ice. 

The finds indicate water ice occurs beneath Mars' surface halfway 
between the north pole and the equator, a lower latitude than 
expected in the Martian climate. 

"This ice is a relic of a more humid climate from perhaps just several 
thousand years ago," said Shane Byrne of the University of Arizona. 

Byrne is a member of the team operating the orbiter's High Resolution 
Imaging Science Experiment, or HiRISE camera, which captured the 
unprecedented images. Byrne and 17 co-authors report the findings in 
the Sept. 25 edition of the journal Science. 

"We now know we can use new impact sites as probes to look for ice in 
the shallow subsurface," said Megan Kennedy of Malin Space Science 
Systems in San Diego, a co-author of the paper and member of the team 
operating the orbiter's Context Camera. 

During a typical week, the Context Camera returns more than 200 images 
of Mars that cover a total area greater than California. The camera 
team examines each image, sometimes finding dark spots that fresh, 
small craters make in terrain covered with dust. Checking earlier 
photos of the same areas can confirm a feature is new. The team has 
found more than 100 fresh impact sites, mostly closer to the equator 
than the ones that revealed ice. 

An image from the camera on Aug. 10, 2008, showed apparent cratering 
that occurred after an image of the same ground was taken 67 days 
earlier. The opportunity to study such a fresh impact site prompted a 
look by the orbiter's higher resolution camera on Sept. 12, 2009, 
confirming a cluster of small craters. 

"Something unusual jumped out," Byrne said. "We observed bright 
material at the bottoms of the craters with a very distinct color. It 
looked a lot like ice." 

The bright material at that site did not cover enough area for a 
spectrometer instrument on the orbiter to determine its composition. 
However, a Sept. 18, 2008, image of a different mid-latitude site 
showed a crater that had not existed eight months earlier. This 
crater had a larger area of bright material. 

"We were excited about it, so we did a quick-turnaround observation," 
said co-author Kim Seelos of Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics 
Laboratory in Laurel, Md., "Everyone thought it was water ice, but it 
was important to get the spectrum for confirmation." 

The Mars orbiter is designed to facilitate coordination and quick 
response by the science teams, making it possible to detect and 
understand rapidly changing features. The ice exposed by fresh 
impacts suggests that NASA's Viking 2 lander, digging into 
mid-latitude Mars in 1976, might have struck ice if it had dug four 
inches deeper. 

The Viking 2 mission, which consisted of an orbiter and a lander, 
launched in September 1975 and became one of the first two space 
probes to land successfully on the Martian surface. The Viking 1 and 
2 landers characterized the structure and composition of the 
atmosphere and surface. They also conducted on-the-spot biological 
tests for life on another planet. 

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena manages the Mars 
Reconnaissance Orbiter for NASA's Science Mission Directorate in 
Washington. Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Denver built the 
spacecraft. The Context Camera was built and is operated by Malin. 
The University of Arizona operates the HiRISE camera, which Ball 
Aerospace & Technologies Corp., in Boulder, Colo., built. The Johns 
Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory led the effort to build 
the Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer and operates it in 
coordination with an international team of researchers. 

To view images of the craters and learn more about the Mars 
Reconnaissance Orbiter, visit: 

http://www.nasa.gov/mro 
	
-end-

-------------------------------------------------------



FROM: Lori Stiles (520-626-4402; lstiles at u.arizona.edu)

SCIENTISTS SEE WATER ICE IN FRESH METEORITE CRATERS ON MARS

Scientists are seeing sub-surface water ice that may be 99 percent pure 
halfway between the north pole and the equator on Mars, thanks to 
quick-turnaround observations from orbit of fresh meteorite impact 
craters on the planet.

"We knew there was ice below the surface at high latitudes of Mars, but 
we find that it extends far closer to the equator than you would think, 
based on Mars' climate today," said Shane Byrne of the University of 
Arizona, a member of the High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment, or 
HiRISE, which runs the high-resolution camera on NASA's Mars 
Reconnaissance Orbiter.

"The other surprising discovery is that ice exposed at the bottom of 
these meteorite impact craters is so pure," Byrne said. "The thinking 
before was that ice accumulates below the surface between soil grains, 
so there would be a 50-50 mix of dirt and ice. We were able to figure 
out, given how long it took that ice to fade from view, that the mixture 
is about one percent dirt and 99 percent ice."

Scientists used several instruments on the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, 
or MRO, in quick succession in detecting and confirming highly pure, 
bright ice exposed in new craters, ranging from 1.5 feet to 8 feet deep, 
at five different Martian sites.

In August 2008, the orbiter's Context camera team examined their images 
for any dark spots or other changes that weren't visible in earlier 
images of the same area. Meteorites usually leave dark marks when they 
crash into dust-covered Mars terrain.

The HiRISE team, which bases its operations at the UA Lunar and 
Planetary Laboratory, followed up in September 2008 by taking 
high-resolution images of the dark spots.

"We saw something very unusual when we followed up on the first of these 
impact craters," Byrne said, "and that was this bright blue material 
poking up from the bottom of the crater. It looked a lot like water ice. 
And sure enough, when we started monitoring this material, it faded away 
like you'd expect water ice to fade, because water ice is unstable on 
Mars' surface and turns directly into water vapor in the atmosphere."

A few days later that September, the orbiter's "CRISM" team used their 
Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer for Mars and got the 
spectral signature of water ice exposed in one of the impact craters, 
further clinching the discovery.

"All of this had to happen very quickly because 200 days after we first 
saw the ice, it was gone, it was the color of dirt," Byrne said. "If we 
had taken HiRISE images just a few months later, we wouldn't have 
noticed anything unusual. This discovery would have just passed us by."

Byrne and 17 co-authors are reporting the findings in the Sept. 25 
edition of the journal Science.

How far water ice extends toward the equator depends largely on how much 
water has been available in the Martian atmosphere in the recent past, 
Byrne said: "The ice is a relic of a more humid climate not very long 
ago, perhaps just several thousand years ago."

The Phoenix Mars Lander mission last year also found clean ice at its 
landing site on the northern plains of Mars, Byrne noted.

But to find highly pure ice far closer to the equator because of random 
meteor impacts was unexpected, he said.

There are several theories about how a layer of such pure ice could have 
formed beneath Mars surface. Byrne said he thinks that one of the most 
promising ideas is that this ice on Mars formed in the same way that 
pure ice lenses form beneath the surface of the Earth.

"That's where you have very thin films of liquid water around ice grains 
and soil grains and they migrate around to form clear ice lenses on top 
of the ice table, even at temperatures well below zero. This process is 
called 'frost heave' on Earth, and it's considered a nuisance in most 
places because it cracks up roads and tilts walls and destroys 
foundations of houses.

"But on Mars it would be of great interest if we could discover a 
process that involved liquid water in today's climate, and not just in 
some of the warmest areas of the planet but in some of the coldest areas 
of the planet in the high latitude regions," Byrne said.

In the past decade, researchers from UA's Lunar and Planetary Laboratory 
have played major roles in piecing together the picture of where water 
is to be found on Mars:

* Professor Alfred McEwen, a co-author on the Sept. 25 Science paper, is 
principal investigator for HiRISE, which began imaging Mars in November 
2006. At this time, the HiRISE Web site features more than 577processed 
pictures of Martian water features among thousands of pictures of 
features on the surface of the planet.

* Professor William Boynton developed the Gamma Ray Spectrometer 
instrument package on Mars Odyssey that detected water ice near the 
Martian poles in 2001.

* Phoenix Mars Lander principal investigator Peter Smith headed the 
mission that used a long robotic arm to uncover and confirm the shallow 
ice table at its landing site, and other instruments to document 
snowfall and ground frost at its high polar latitude. The Phoenix Mars 
Mission began science operations on the northern plains of Mars after 
landing May 25, 2008, and lasted five months, until winter arrived.

The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is managed by the Jet Propulsion 
Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for 
NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington.

The University of Arizona operates the High Resolution Imaging Science 
Experiment, which operates the HiRISE camera built by Ball Aerospace & 
Technologies Corp., Boulder, Colo.

Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver, built the spacecraft. The Context 
Camera is operated by and was provided by Malin Space Science Systems. 
The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory led the effort 
to build the Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer for Mars and 
operates it in coordination with an international team of researchers.

SCIENCE CONTACTS:

Shane Byrne (520-626-0407; shane at lpl.arizona.edu)
Alfred McEwen (520-621-4573; mcewen at lpl.arizona.edu)

HiRISE WEBSITE & IMAGES:
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu



From mmurray at montrose.net  Thu Sep 24 15:35:48 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:35:48 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
In-Reply-To: <20090923235630.06T9R.330583.imail@fed1rmwml31>
References: <20090923235630.06T9R.330583.imail@fed1rmwml31>
Message-ID: <E657C45E-98FE-475E-99C8-B3AE9D3E8501@montrose.net>

I'm calling it native iron because that is what the tests showed.  It  
is possible and the person making the analysis also stated that it  
could be meteoritic material.  I don't know.  It is some some pieces  
of metal from about 3/16" to 3/4" at the widest.  The pieces are  
strongly susceptible to a magnets attraction, more so even than  
magnetite .  It is very hard and chrome looking metal.  It just  
doesn't look like an iron meteorite, at least not to me.    Close  
though.  So anyway, that is what it is.  No sign of nickel though.   
All of the pieces were found here in southwest Colorado.  If  
terrestrial, it may be that I can find it here because we have some  
old calderas in this area.  Just a guess.

Mike


On Sep 23, 2009, at 9:56 PM, <cdtucson at cox.net> <cdtucson at cox.net>  
wrote:

> Michael,
> By the way my posts take several hours to post to the list. I don't  
> know why.
> You are very interesting. What do you mean by Native Iron vs.  
> meteorite iron? To me all iron is either man made or meteorite so,  
> what is native? Do you mean Josephineite or what? I hunt old ranches  
> in AZ where it has an old history including lots of old tools made  
> by whomever, Indians, Spaniards, conquistadors, miners, etc. I think  
> some of these metal objects are made from meteorite material. maybe  
> even the Tucson irons?
> Your test helps me to determine that. They do not magnetize. So,  
> maybe they are meteorite material.
> The allergy test in my experience is far to sensitive. It detects  
> even the smallest trace amounts of Nickel. Your test seems much  
> better for a preliminary test to choose which pile things go to.
> Thanks again. I am very thankful to all who post on this list.  
> Your's are great to see and very helpful. please tell more about  
> these special features. Carl
>
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
>
>
> ---- Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net> wrote:
>> Glad you found it useful.  I wanted to share too that native iron
>> reacts real close to the same as a meteorite will to the magnetism.
>> So you might want to watch for that.    I sent one of about 20 some
>> pieces of native iron I have to AZ to a lab and they confirmed that
>> that is what it is.  I have learned to tell the difference in the two
>> mainly by sight.  Native iron is rougher looking than an iron
>> meteorite and some of the pieces I have have a strange mineral habit
>> clearly visible on the surface.  BTW, these pieces of native iron do
>> not test positive for nickel or at least not for me here with the
>> alertest Ni test or at the lab in AZ.   I tried to send some to UCLA
>> for a nickel test but they were a little too busy.  I can't blame  
>> them
>> though for not wanting to take time away from more important things  
>> to
>> test my little chunk.
>>
>> Best of luck finding those iron meteorites.
>>
>> Mike in CO
>>
>> On Sep 23, 2009, at 8:31 PM, <cdtucson at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Michael,
>>> I would first of all like to thank you for this great information.
>>> Secondly , I would like to tell you that hopefully your test is
>>> definitive. As evidence that it is. I just tried to magnetize a
>>> bunch of small CD's and Odessa's that I have and none of them became
>>> magnetized. This proves you are correct at least for the ones I
>>> tried. In addition I also tried to magnetize a couple of prospects
>>> that I have and they too did not become magnetized and yet other
>>> pieces of found metal that's clearly not meteorite material did
>>> become magnetized. You are quite the genius and thank you so very
>>> much for sharing. Thank you again and again. Carl
>>> PS they claim if results can be replicated that theory becomes fact?
>>> I hope this is now a fact because a few found irons might just get
>>> added to the "it's a keeper for more testing pile."
>>> --
>>> Carl or Debbie Esparza
>>> Meteoritemax
>>>
>>>
>>> ---- Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net> wrote:
>>>> For what they are worth, here are a couple suggestions...
>>>> If you place the suspect iron on a strong magnet, then remove the
>>>> magnet, the suspect iron should not retain magnetism (if it's a
>>>> meteorite) but should to some extent if man-made iron. Kind of like
>>>> magnetizing the tip of a screwdriver.  You can test the once
>>>> magnetized suspect iron to see if it will attract fine particles of
>>>> magnetite,   Not very scientific I know but it is a good  
>>>> indicator I
>>>> think.
>>>>
>>>> Another thing you can try if the suspect iron is not very big is to
>>>> place it on a strong magnet (super magnet if you have one) and if  
>>>> the
>>>> iron piece wants to orient itself up on one of it's ends on the
>>>> magnet, I would rule out meteorite.  If your suspect iron is large,
>>>> you'd probably have to remove a small piece of it to do this test.
>>>> If
>>>> the small piece lays down on any of it's sides on the magnet and
>>>> doesn't want to orient itself, I'd put it in my 'it's a keeper for
>>>> more testing' pile.
>>>>
>>>> I bought a couple nickel test kits.  I have tried to be as  
>>>> careful as
>>>> possible to do a clean uncontaminated test on several suspect  
>>>> irons.
>>>> After doing quite a few, I still don't trust the results.  It's not
>>>> that I don't get positives, I do.  It's that I've learned not trust
>>>> the positive tests all that much.  If I find a big enough suspect
>>>> iron
>>>> someday with enough other indicators that it could be a meteorite
>>>> then
>>>> I will let a lab do the testing so I can rest assured the results  
>>>> are
>>>> going to be more trustworthy than mine.  Meanwhile, my 'it's a  
>>>> keeper
>>>> for more testing' pile continues to grow.
>>>>
>>>> Mike in CO
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 23, 2009, at 12:27 PM, Mike Hankey wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've done some nickel tests on some of the slag/meteor wrongs we
>>>>> have found.
>>>>>
>>>>> It tests positive for nickel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this sound normal?
>>>>>
>>>>> So I guess the only way to confirm slag (if you can't do it
>>>>> visually)
>>>>> is to cut it open and if there are holes / bubbles then it is
>>>>> slag. Or
>>>>> if the slice doesn't look like a meteorite slice it is slag.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the record, I am personally looking for west like fusion  
>>>>> crusted
>>>>> stones and this is what I am training people to look for. At the
>>>>> same
>>>>> time when I get reports about weird rocks I have to follow up and
>>>>> take
>>>>> a look. Not all slag looks the same, there are a lot of different
>>>>> types. I'm getting pretty good at identifying / ruling things out,
>>>>> but
>>>>> the nickel test threw me for a loop.
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>



From epgrondine at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 24 16:24:20 2009
From: epgrondine at yahoo.com (E.P. Grondine)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:24:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: NASA Spacecraft Sees Ice on Mars Exposed by
	Meteor Impacts
Message-ID: <818735.80920.qm@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I am certain that most here will want this info, so just in case Ron Baalke does not post this. Here goes:

--- On Thu, 9/24/09, NASA News <hqnews at mediaservices.nasa.gov> wrote:

> From: NASA News <hqnews at mediaservices.nasa.gov>
> Subject: NASA Spacecraft Sees Ice on Mars Exposed by Meteor Impacts
> To: "NASA News" <hqnews at mediaservices.nasa.gov>
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 2:22 PM
> Sept. 24, 2009
> 
> Dwayne Brown 
> Headquarters, Washington 
> 202-358-1726 
> dwayne.c.brown at nasa.gov
> 
> 
> Guy Webster 
> Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. 
> 818-354-6278 
> guy.webster at jpl.nasa.gov
> 
> 
> RELEASE: 09-224
> 
> NASA SPACECRAFT SEES ICE ON MARS EXPOSED BY METEOR IMPACTS
> 
> PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter has
> revealed 
> frozen water hiding just below the surface of mid-latitude
> Mars. The 
> spacecraft's observations were obtained from orbit after
> meteorites 
> excavated fresh craters on the Red Planet. 
> 
> Scientists controlling instruments on the orbiter found
> bright ice 
> exposed at five Martian sites with new craters that range
> in depth 
> from approximately 1.5 feet to 8 feet. The craters did not
> exist in 
> earlier images of the same sites. Some of the craters show
> a thin 
> layer of bright ice atop darker underlying material. The
> bright 
> patches darkened in the weeks following initial
> observations, as the 
> freshly exposed ice vaporized into the thin Martian
> atmosphere. One 
> of the new craters had a bright patch of material large
> enough for 
> one of the orbiter's instruments to confirm it is water
> ice. 
> 
> The finds indicate water ice occurs beneath Mars' surface
> halfway 
> between the north pole and the equator, a lower latitude
> than 
> expected in the Martian climate. 
> 
> "This ice is a relic of a more humid climate from perhaps
> just several 
> thousand years ago," said Shane Byrne of the University of
> Arizona. 
> 
> Byrne is a member of the team operating the orbiter's High
> Resolution 
> Imaging Science Experiment, or HiRISE camera, which
> captured the 
> unprecedented images. Byrne and 17 co-authors report the
> findings in 
> the Sept. 25 edition of the journal Science. 
> 
> "We now know we can use new impact sites as probes to look
> for ice in 
> the shallow subsurface," said Megan Kennedy of Malin Space
> Science 
> Systems in San Diego, a co-author of the paper and member
> of the team 
> operating the orbiter's Context Camera. 
> 
> During a typical week, the Context Camera returns more than
> 200 images 
> of Mars that cover a total area greater than California.
> The camera 
> team examines each image, sometimes finding dark spots that
> fresh, 
> small craters make in terrain covered with dust. Checking
> earlier 
> photos of the same areas can confirm a feature is new. The
> team has 
> found more than 100 fresh impact sites, mostly closer to
> the equator 
> than the ones that revealed ice. 
> 
> An image from the camera on Aug. 10, 2008, showed apparent
> cratering 
> that occurred after an image of the same ground was taken
> 67 days 
> earlier. The opportunity to study such a fresh impact site
> prompted a 
> look by the orbiter's higher resolution camera on Sept. 12,
> 2009, 
> confirming a cluster of small craters. 
> 
> "Something unusual jumped out," Byrne said. "We observed
> bright 
> material at the bottoms of the craters with a very distinct
> color. It 
> looked a lot like ice." 
> 
> The bright material at that site did not cover enough area
> for a 
> spectrometer instrument on the orbiter to determine its
> composition. 
> However, a Sept. 18, 2008, image of a different
> mid-latitude site 
> showed a crater that had not existed eight months earlier.
> This 
> crater had a larger area of bright material. 
> 
> "We were excited about it, so we did a quick-turnaround
> observation," 
> said co-author Kim Seelos of Johns Hopkins University
> Applied Physics 
> Laboratory in Laurel, Md., "Everyone thought it was water
> ice, but it 
> was important to get the spectrum for confirmation." 
> 
> The Mars orbiter is designed to facilitate coordination and
> quick 
> response by the science teams, making it possible to detect
> and 
> understand rapidly changing features. The ice exposed by
> fresh 
> impacts suggests that NASA's Viking 2 lander, digging into
> 
> mid-latitude Mars in 1976, might have struck ice if it had
> dug four 
> inches deeper. 
> 
> The Viking 2 mission, which consisted of an orbiter and a
> lander, 
> launched in September 1975 and became one of the first two
> space 
> probes to land successfully on the Martian surface. The
> Viking 1 and 
> 2 landers characterized the structure and composition of
> the 
> atmosphere and surface. They also conducted on-the-spot
> biological 
> tests for life on another planet. 
> 
> NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena manages the
> Mars 
> Reconnaissance Orbiter for NASA's Science Mission
> Directorate in 
> Washington. Lockheed Martin Space Systems in Denver built
> the 
> spacecraft. The Context Camera was built and is operated by
> Malin. 
> The University of Arizona operates the HiRISE camera, which
> Ball 
> Aerospace & Technologies Corp., in Boulder, Colo.,
> built. The Johns 
> Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory led the
> effort to build 
> the Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer and
> operates it in 
> coordination with an international team of researchers. 
> 
> To view images of the craters and learn more about the Mars
> 
> Reconnaissance Orbiter, visit: 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.nasa.gov/mro 
> 
> ??? 
> -end-
> 
> 
> 
> To subscribe to the list, send a message to: 
> hqnews-subscribe at mediaservices.nasa.gov
> To remove your address from the list, send a message to:
> hqnews-unsubscribe at mediaservices.nasa.gov
> 


      


From darryl at dof3.com  Thu Sep 24 16:44:25 2009
From: darryl at dof3.com (Darryl Pitt)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:44:25 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Michigan Fireball: Any news?
In-Reply-To: <4ABB9F7D.80105@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <4ABB9F7D.80105@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <D117DFDC-5E83-4DA7-860D-829E2DF72751@dof3.com>



No news worth reporting other than the further validation of the old  
bromide shared among trial lawyers:

"No one gets it wrong better than an eyewitness"

Ugh!




On Sep 24, 2009, at 12:34 PM, Meteorites USA wrote:

> Hi List,
>
> I know this was probably posted already, but has anyone heard  
> anything more on this?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Sept 1st Fireball
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Anybody notice a massive fireball come through here?
> Posted By The Sault Star
> Posted 1 hour ago
>  A former Michigan man is seeking anyone in the Sault Ste. Marie  
> area who may have witnessed anything unusual in the skies Sept. 1.
>
> According to numerous accounts, a massive fireball streaked across  
> the upper part of Michigan's lower peninsula shortly after 9 p.m.  
> Dozens of witnesses describe it alternately growing green and red,  
> and leaving a trail of glowing fragments as it traveled eastward.  
> Looking to some like a burning jet plan, from some localities it was  
> seen for seven seconds and from others deafening sonic booms were  
> heard that rattles home for miles.
>
> Reports have come in from as far away as Wisconsin and Sudbury,  
> indicating it landed in Michigan. Now, Darryl Pitt believes he can  
> triangulate its landing spot more accurately if he got local  
> witnesses.
>
> Pitt is curator of the Macovich Collection in New York City, one of  
> the world's largest collection of space rocks. He calls Sault Ste.  
> Marie a "perfect observation point" because he needs at least a  
> couple of accounts north of the fireball's trajectory to pinpoint a  
> landing spot.
>
> He promises to visit the Sault for a talk and presentation of  
> specimens, including from the moon and Mars.
>
> The fireball was news to Sharon Valli, president of the Twin Sault  
> Astronomy Club. Valli said the club met last week and no one brought  
> up the subject. "That definitely would have come up, because it's a  
> big thing," she said.
>
> Anyone with information is asked to call him at 212-302-9200 or  
> email darryl at dof3.com
>
> http://www.saultstar.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1767790
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From gmhupe at htn.net  Thu Sep 24 17:17:32 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:17:32 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
Message-ID: <D43F9B2E582C47E38703E80EBD8DDFBB@Gregor>

Hello List and All Metal Detector Enthusiasts (whether it be meteorites or 
other goodies...),

As a side benefit to those of who hunt for meteorites using a metal 
detector, we some times find other interesting or valuable objects that are 
not meteorite related.

I thought I would share this story as an example of what "could" be found 
while hunting for meteorites using a metal detector.

What is really cool about this story is that the finder was using an old 
detector, can you imagine what is deeper below their feet as they dug up the 
artifacts on the surface!! Maybe the authorities have older equipment there 
too!! I think also that the true story is all about good luck and the 
willingness to get permission and agreements from property owners!

Good luck to all on your current and/or future hunts!!

Link to Gold Hoard article:
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/09/24/staffordshire.uk.gold.hoard/?imw=Y

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault






From deanbessey at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 24 17:46:56 2009
From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 14:46:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
In-Reply-To: <D43F9B2E582C47E38703E80EBD8DDFBB@Gregor>
Message-ID: <193316.68562.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

> From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
>
> think also that the true story is all about good luck and
> the willingness to get permission and agreements from
> property owners!
> 
It is more than that. It is also an example of common sense historical artifact laws at work. Britain has constructed their artifact laws in such a way that it is in a finders best interest to report all of their findings (It is also illegal to not report your findings but that dont really give you much incentive and wont work anyway).
As a result whenever artifact or coin hoards get found in UK everybody who is interested gets to study them and learn as much history as possible from the stash. And the actual finder gets more money for them than if he tried to sell them in secret on the UNESCO black market (Probably has to pay taxes on the sale of the hoard also). Finder, science, general public, government, land owners - everybody wins with british cultural property laws.
If this stash of gold was found in Italy, Israel, Egypt or Peru, the site would have been very quickly destroyed behond recognition and reburied (After dark and probably all in one night) to hide any evidence of the sites existance, and the gold melted down, stamped Johnson matthey and (With the governments full blessing) shipped out of the country.
Rather than being studied by researchers as this hoard will be, it would have gone on the next fed ex flight out and went directly from the archaeological site to a swiss bank vault. 
It would have been UNESCO at work
Sincerely
DEAN  


      


From rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 24 18:32:30 2009
From: rob_mccafferty at yahoo.com (Rob McCafferty)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:32:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
In-Reply-To: <193316.68562.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <919614.41792.qm@web55205.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

It's also worth pointing out that UK law is generally pretty generous regarding prospecting.

If you own the land, anything you find on it belongs to you.

The exceptions are Gold and Silver.

If you find them, either as mineral deposits or as relics, they are automatically owned by the Crown (read State)
This guy may have found this stuff but I doubt very much whether he will see a single penny from his find.

I hope he isn't expecting anything other than his name next to a museum exhibit because he's not going to get it.

Rob McC





--- On Thu, 9/24/09, dean bessey <deanbessey at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: dean bessey <deanbessey at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 10:46 PM
> > From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
> >
> > think also that the true story is all about good luck
> and
> > the willingness to get permission and agreements from
> > property owners!
> > 
> It is more than that. It is also an example of common sense
> historical artifact laws at work. Britain has constructed
> their artifact laws in such a way that it is in a finders
> best interest to report all of their findings (It is also
> illegal to not report your findings but that dont really
> give you much incentive and wont work anyway).
> As a result whenever artifact or coin hoards get found in
> UK everybody who is interested gets to study them and learn
> as much history as possible from the stash. And the actual
> finder gets more money for them than if he tried to sell
> them in secret on the UNESCO black market (Probably has to
> pay taxes on the sale of the hoard also). Finder, science,
> general public, government, land owners - everybody wins
> with british cultural property laws.
> If this stash of gold was found in Italy, Israel, Egypt or
> Peru, the site would have been very quickly destroyed behond
> recognition and reburied (After dark and probably all in one
> night) to hide any evidence of the sites existance, and the
> gold melted down, stamped Johnson matthey and (With the
> governments full blessing) shipped out of the country.
> Rather than being studied by researchers as this hoard will
> be, it would have gone on the next fed ex flight out and
> went directly from the archaeological site to a swiss bank
> vault. 
> It would have been UNESCO at work
> Sincerely
> DEAN? 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From ensoramanda at ntlworld.com  Thu Sep 24 18:46:39 2009
From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com (ensoramanda at ntlworld.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:46:39 +0100
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
In-Reply-To: <193316.68562.qm@web56106.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20090924234639.PN2R6.278734.root@web03-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>

Hi Greg, Dean, All,

This amazing hoard was found just a short distance away from me near a place called Brownhills at the side of the A5. Lots of discussion about its value on the news as usual. I think that in this case it will be classed as treasure as it was deliberately hidden ( I think the law is different if it is classed as lost ) and will not belong to the landowner or the finder, so will not be sold but go to the museums. Once valued their will be a reward allocated which in this case will belong to the finder as he got permission to search from the landowner. Apparently he has agreed to share that with the landowner...which only seems fair. 

I intend to visit the museum in Birmingham over the weekend to see this exciting historical find right on my doorstep.

Graham Ensor, UK 


---- dean bessey <deanbessey at yahoo.com> wrote: 
> > From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
> >
> > think also that the true story is all about good luck and
> > the willingness to get permission and agreements from
> > property owners!
> > 
> It is more than that. It is also an example of common sense historical artifact laws at work. Britain has constructed their artifact laws in such a way that it is in a finders best interest to report all of their findings (It is also illegal to not report your findings but that dont really give you much incentive and wont work anyway).
> As a result whenever artifact or coin hoards get found in UK everybody who is interested gets to study them and learn as much history as possible from the stash. And the actual finder gets more money for them than if he tried to sell them in secret on the UNESCO black market (Probably has to pay taxes on the sale of the hoard also). Finder, science, general public, government, land owners - everybody wins with british cultural property laws.
> If this stash of gold was found in Italy, Israel, Egypt or Peru, the site would have been very quickly destroyed behond recognition and reburied (After dark and probably all in one night) to hide any evidence of the sites existance, and the gold melted down, stamped Johnson matthey and (With the governments full blessing) shipped out of the country.
> Rather than being studied by researchers as this hoard will be, it would have gone on the next fed ex flight out and went directly from the archaeological site to a swiss bank vault. 
> It would have been UNESCO at work
> Sincerely
> DEAN  
> 
> 
>       
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Thu Sep 24 20:04:00 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:04:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Comets May Give Life a Hand
Message-ID: <200909250004.n8P040xn019129@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/3257/comets-may-give-life-a-hand

Comets May Give Life a Hand
Michael Schirber
Astrobiology Magazine
September 24, 2009

Summary: A comet hitting Earth would seem to bring only death and
destruction, but one group is studying how such an impact could promote
certain necessary chemical steps in the origin of life. The researchers
are focusing on how comet collisions might have influenced the molecular
orientation, or handedness, of our planet's biology.

Billions of years ago, comets may have ferried life-sustaining water to
our planet's surface, but that may not be all that we should thank these
dirty snowballs for. Researchers are simulating comet impacts to see if
they might help proliferate the left-handedness in molecules that life
on Earth depends upon.

There is evidence from meteorite studies that amino acids may have been
delivered to Earth from space.

"There is interest in how these building blocks
came to be on primordial Earth," says Jennifer Blank of the SETI Institute.

She and her colleagues study comets as a second avenue for depositing
these biological compounds on Earth. Their current work, which is
supported by NASA's Exobiology and Evolutionary Biology Program, is
looking at how the fire and brimstone of a comet impact may benefit the
formation of complex molecules of a particular handedness.

Primordial Lab 

Life on Earth uses 20 amino acids to build up the thousands upon
thousands of different proteins that perform a myriad of cell functions.
Astrobiologists often focus on the origins of amino acids in order to
understand where life may have come from.

One of the first experiments aimed at reproducing the primordial Earth
and its chemistry was undertaken by Stanley Miller in 1953. He was able 
to synthesize amino acids using lightning-like discharges in a reducing 
atmosphere of methane, ammonia and water - similar to what exists on 
Jupiter.

Since that pioneering work, researchers have come to believe that
Earth's early atmosphere was in fact more oxidative, containing mostly
nitrogen and carbon dioxide.

"Without the reducing atmosphere, the Miller mechanism becomes much less
efficient at producing amino acids," Blank says.

One way to get around this is to make the amino acids in space and have
them come crashing down on-board meteorites and comets. There is ample
evidence that meteorites carry amino acids.  And just recently, an amino 
acid was discovered in comet material brought back by NASA's Stardust 
spacecraft.

Blank and her colleagues were curious as to what happens to these
biomolecules when the "space capsule" they are riding in smacks into the
Earth.

The team has focused their work on comets, rather than meteors. Although
comets are less prevalent in the inner solar system, they have a few
possible advantages over their dry rocky counterparts when it comes to
delivering biologically relevant material to a planet's surface.

First of all, a comet impact is thought to be less harsh than that of a
meteorite because comets are less dense, which means their impact
generates lower temperatures and pressures. Blank says that the blow
would be further softened on a comet arriving at an oblique angle.

The second advantage of comets is that they carry water, which is key
for the chemical reactions that beget life. When the comet lands, its
ice melts, forming a little puddle near the crash site.

"Comets give you all the ingredients, like a compact evolution kit,"
Blank says.

[Diagram[
This schematic diagram shows the basic apparatus used by Blank's team to
simulate a comet impact. A projectile is fired (red arrow) into a
stationary target that contains an organic sample. The "comet" material
is then extracted and analyzed to determine what chemical reactions have
occurred.
Credit: /Jennifer Blank/
 
Of course, the primordial Earth was stocked with its own water, but "if
a comet or meteor were to land in the ocean, any interesting chemistry
would quickly be diluted away," says co-investigator George Cooper of
NASA Ames. A comet impact on dry land would give the organic molecules
on board the chance to amplify their numbers in the localized puddle.

Like Shooting Comets in a Barrel 

To simulate a comet hitting pay dirt, Blank and her colleagues fire a
bullet into a metal container the size of a can of beans. In this
scenario, the container is the comet and the bullet is the hard ground.
Inside the container is a small chamber about as big as a quarter, in
which the scientists place a liquid sample of organic molecules.

"It's not super high-tech, but it is rather involved as far as the
structural complexity is concerned," Blank explains.

She and her colleagues take special care to ensure that the metal
container doesn't leak from the impact. Afterwards, they carefully drill
down to the chamber and draw out their "shocked" liquid sample.

In 2001, the team reported that amino acids placed in the comet
simulator were still intact following the impact, which surprised 
other scientists.

"It's the coolest thing," Blank recounts. "People told us, 'Nothing is
going to survive, so why should we fund you?'"

Normally, the 1,000-degree-temperatures inside the smashed "comet" would
destroy any amino acids. But Blank believes the temperature rises and
falls too fast for the molecules to react. There is also enormous
pressure of 10,000 atmospheres that may be preventing the breakdown of
compounds.

However, the amino acids did more than just survive the crash. They also
started bonding together to form short chains up to 5-amino-acids long.

This comet-induced bonding may have played a role in the origin of life.
Typically, there is an energy barrier that prevents amino acids from
latching together. Indeed, organisms require enzymes to overcome this
barrier when putting together their proteins. But enzymes themselves are
proteins, so there is a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem: how do you
build up proteins before you have proteins to help build them up?

It is perhaps conceivable that a comet impact fused together the first
rudimentary protein pieces (called "peptides") and thereby got the whole
ball rolling.

Blank's group is now running simulations to see if they can model how
the energy barrier to amino acid bonding changes under the high
temperature and pressure of a comet impact.

Molecular Crash-Test Dummies 

The scientists are also planning to do more comet crash tests. They will
be looking at sugars, which play an important part in the structure of
DNA and RNA. And they will be looking at amino acids again, this time
studying whether the handedness of comet passengers might be affected by
the impact.

In regard to the handedness, Blank thinks there might be a difference in
how the amino acids hook up together during the impact. Left-handed
amino acids may form chains more readily with other left-handed amino
acids, rather than with right-handed ones.

Such a preference, if it exists, might be able to enhance a slight
overabundance of one hand (a so-called enantiomeric excess in the original
comet material. This might explain why organisms only use left-handed
amino acids to form proteins.

"It will be a great discovery if they can get definite evidence as to
formation of sugars, peptides, or enantiomeric excess," says Yoshihiro
Furukawa of Tohoku University in Japan, who was not involved with this
work.

He says the one concern will be contamination of the sample with the
left-handed biology we are already familiar with. He suggests using
amino acids made with carbon-13, so that any subsequent contamination
with normal carbon-12-based amino acids will be easy to detect.



From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Thu Sep 24 21:44:33 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:44:33 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
References: <20090924234639.PN2R6.278734.root@web03-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
Message-ID: <47CDDA9F0AE5472CB4983CA37B00F043@ATARIENGINE2>

Graham, Rob, List,

    The previous prize hoard of Anglo-Saxon gold
was found in a ship burial in Sutton Hoo in 1939.
It contained 1,500 grams of gold. News reports say
that over 5,000 grams have been removed from a
patch of ground with an area only 20 yards long
and down to a depth of about 14 inches, intermingled
with modern artiffacts. To date 1345 items have
been removed and officially declared "treasure trove"
yesterday by the South Staffordshire Coroner,
Andrew Haigh, rendering it property of the Crown
(I'm quoting The Independent here).

The last of the treasures came out of the ground
only three weeks ago and none has been cleaned.
The still-earth-covered collection is being kept in
secure storage at Birmingham Museum and Art
Gallery and a selection of the items will be displayed
at the museum from today until 13 October.

Always willing to speculate, it appears to me that
these treasures were buried, presumably by a Mercian
monarch or noble, to hide them and that whoever
buried them was defeated and unable to re-claim
his treasure. This is odd as Mercia was largely an
expanding power from the late 500's until
decisively defeated by Wessex in 825 AD. This
treasure is found in the very secure Mercian
heartland yet seems to have been lost because of
a Mercian defeat.

Scanning through the Kings of Mercia, I have
a candidate and a date. In the 600's there was a
very strong and successful Mercian King, Penda.
After a reign of successful battles against all
opponents, Penda was defeated and killed at the
Battle of Winwaed by the Northumbrian king
Oswiu in 655, ushering a series of failed Mercian
kings, a bitter civil war over succession, another
defeat by Northumbria, a king that was apparently
insane -- things were chaotic until the reign of
?thelbald (716-757).

It is my hypothesis that this may be the hoard
of Penda, buried for safekeeping before he rode
of to fight Oswiu. It is hard to imagine who in
Mercia would have a hoard of over 5 kilograms
of gold, if not the King himself ! Recall that Penda
fought and vanquished many kings and challengers
and much of this hoard is booty of war, stripped from
the bodies of the defeated. If it is as decribed, a badly
churned site, radiocarbon dates will be very mixed.
Its value as history is vastly greater than its gold
value of $160,000.

I suspect that future analysis and study will find
many different cultural traditions mixed into this
hoard (from all the defeated kingdoms from which
it is booty as well as Mercian work). There will likely
be cultural and stylistic differences from the Sutton
Hoo finds (which have an oddly close affinity to
Eastern Sweden). If I could see this stuff tomorrow,
I would Google up images of restored Sutton Hoo
items for comparison.

Rob, as far as it being the property of the Crown...?
Well, apart from the provision for "treasure troves" in
the law, it seems to me that it was originally the property
of the King of Mercia and as such possessions descend
by the succession of the kingship, one must ask who is
monarch of Mercia now? That person would seem to be
the rightful inheritor... and I believe we know that lady's
name.

How about that for a Monarchical argument from
a Revolutionary Colonial?


Sterling K. Webb
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England


> Hi Greg, Dean, All,
>
> This amazing hoard was found just a short distance away from me near a 
> place called Brownhills at the side of the A5. Lots of discussion 
> about its value on the news as usual. I think that in this case it 
> will be classed as treasure as it was deliberately hidden ( I think 
> the law is different if it is classed as lost ) and will not belong to 
> the landowner or the finder, so will not be sold but go to the 
> museums. Once valued their will be a reward allocated which in this 
> case will belong to the finder as he got permission to search from the 
> landowner. Apparently he has agreed to share that with the 
> landowner...which only seems fair.
>
> I intend to visit the museum in Birmingham over the weekend to see 
> this exciting historical find right on my doorstep.
>
> Graham Ensor, UK
>
>
> ---- dean bessey <deanbessey at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
>> >
>> > think also that the true story is all about good luck and
>> > the willingness to get permission and agreements from
>> > property owners!
>> >
>> It is more than that. It is also an example of common sense 
>> historical artifact laws at work. Britain has constructed their 
>> artifact laws in such a way that it is in a finders best interest to 
>> report all of their findings (It is also illegal to not report your 
>> findings but that dont really give you much incentive and wont work 
>> anyway).
>> As a result whenever artifact or coin hoards get found in UK 
>> everybody who is interested gets to study them and learn as much 
>> history as possible from the stash. And the actual finder gets more 
>> money for them than if he tried to sell them in secret on the UNESCO 
>> black market (Probably has to pay taxes on the sale of the hoard 
>> also). Finder, science, general public, government, land owners - 
>> everybody wins with british cultural property laws.
>> If this stash of gold was found in Italy, Israel, Egypt or Peru, the 
>> site would have been very quickly destroyed behond recognition and 
>> reburied (After dark and probably all in one night) to hide any 
>> evidence of the sites existance, and the gold melted down, stamped 
>> Johnson matthey and (With the governments full blessing) shipped out 
>> of the country.
>> Rather than being studied by researchers as this hoard will be, it 
>> would have gone on the next fed ex flight out and went directly from 
>> the archaeological site to a swiss bank vault.
>> It would have been UNESCO at work
>> Sincerely
>> DEAN
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From schroer at bigpond.com  Thu Sep 24 22:53:24 2009
From: schroer at bigpond.com (W&S Schroer)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:23:24 +0930
Subject: [meteorite-list] another dust storm hits Broken Hill in Australia
Message-ID: <B5C6E06D3F3A491884E86E5D7A7A53A5@WERNER>

Hi list,
it's Friday morning and the city is covered under a cloud of dust again. 
It's not as bad yet as it was three days ago but I'm sure that out in the 
desert more meteorites will be exposed thanks to the relentless storm.
Unfortunately, the bi-annual Gem & Mineral Show started today and will end 
on Sunday. Most stall holder have travelled hundreds of miles to get here, 
so for them it will be a financial disaster if it doesn't calm down soon.

Storms are quite common this time of the year but they normally don't carry 
dust of this magnitude. The dust was originally moved earlier this year from 
inner eastern Australia to the west when unusual heavy downpours in 
north-eastern Australia created countless little 'rivers' and filled up the 
normally dry salt lake called Lake Eyre in the north of South Australia. 
Something like this happens only once in every decade or even less and it 
creates a wonderful show of nature where the wildlife flourishes for a few 
months until the lake dries up again.

And this is happening now and millions of fish and thousand of pelicans and 
many more other animals are dying. A paradise is turning into hell right now 
and since hundreds of thousand tons of fine dust travelled with the water to 
this region, it is changing now from mud to dust again and those normally 
harmless yearly storms pick up this fine material and carry it from west to 
east covering a large part of Australia.
Unfortunately, Broken Hill is the first major city that gets hit by these 
storms and by the time they reach the east coast with cities like Sydney and 
Brisbane, the number of particles per cm? is much less. Still, people with 
health problems will be badly affected there too.

Anyway, nothing can stop me from going to that show. Who knows, with the top 
soil blown away I might find a meteorite on the foot path.....

Cheers
Werner Schroer




From deanbessey at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 24 23:10:12 2009
From: deanbessey at yahoo.com (dean bessey)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 20:10:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
In-Reply-To: <20090924234639.PN2R6.278734.root@web03-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
Message-ID: <154017.13586.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Well, I am not that up on british law and maybe there is a british legal clause that the guys dont own it. That is however different from what the article says as it clearly says that they will split the proceeds (Not that reporters always get the details right when it comes to value).
It is also contrary to what my friends who are coin and artifact dealers have to say about british cultural property laws. Most of them are quite happy with how the british handle things and you never hear stories about how they got screwed by the cultural property department (Compare what people have to say about britain to what they say about canadian cultural property laws for example).
Maybe though you are right and that these guys will in fact not get a cent. I am not a lawyer. But I am leaning toward thinking that they will get a fair shake come payoff time. But if I am wrong and these guys do get their loot legally stolen from them by the government you can bet that the next gold stash that is found wont end up being studied and on public display but will discreetly get sent to switzerland shaped as not so small shiney cubes. 
My bet is that the guys running the cultural property system in britian is smarter than that.
Cheers
DEAN

--- On Thu, 9/24/09, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com> wrote:

> From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 3:46 PM
> Hi Greg, Dean, All,
> 
> This amazing hoard was found just a short distance away
> from me near a place called Brownhills at the side of the
> A5. Lots of discussion about its value on the news as usual.
> I think that in this case it will be classed as treasure as
> it was deliberately hidden ( I think the law is different if
> it is classed as lost ) and will not belong to the landowner
> or the finder, so will not be sold but go to the museums.
> Once valued their will be a reward allocated which in this
> case will belong to the finder as he got permission to
> search from the landowner. Apparently he has agreed to share
> that with the landowner...which only seems fair. 
> 
> I intend to visit the museum in Birmingham over the weekend
> to see this exciting historical find right on my doorstep.
> 
> Graham Ensor, UK 
> 
> 
> ---- dean bessey <deanbessey at yahoo.com>
> wrote: 
> > > From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
> > >
> > > think also that the true story is all about good
> luck and
> > > the willingness to get permission and agreements
> from
> > > property owners!
> > > 
> > It is more than that. It is also an example of common
> sense historical artifact laws at work. Britain has
> constructed their artifact laws in such a way that it is in
> a finders best interest to report all of their findings (It
> is also illegal to not report your findings but that dont
> really give you much incentive and wont work anyway).
> > As a result whenever artifact or coin hoards get found
> in UK everybody who is interested gets to study them and
> learn as much history as possible from the stash. And the
> actual finder gets more money for them than if he tried to
> sell them in secret on the UNESCO black market (Probably has
> to pay taxes on the sale of the hoard also). Finder,
> science, general public, government, land owners - everybody
> wins with british cultural property laws.
> > If this stash of gold was found in Italy, Israel,
> Egypt or Peru, the site would have been very quickly
> destroyed behond recognition and reburied (After dark and
> probably all in one night) to hide any evidence of the sites
> existance, and the gold melted down, stamped Johnson matthey
> and (With the governments full blessing) shipped out of the
> country.
> > Rather than being studied by researchers as this hoard
> will be, it would have gone on the next fed ex flight out
> and went directly from the archaeological site to a swiss
> bank vault. 
> > It would have been UNESCO at work
> > Sincerely
> > DEAN? 
> > 
> > 
> >? ? ???
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From mmurray at montrose.net  Thu Sep 24 23:23:53 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 21:23:53 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] another dust storm hits Broken Hill in
	Australia
In-Reply-To: <B5C6E06D3F3A491884E86E5D7A7A53A5@WERNER>
References: <B5C6E06D3F3A491884E86E5D7A7A53A5@WERNER>
Message-ID: <1CCB4AD6-B21B-46D1-9D1A-D7F324A54770@montrose.net>

I know I have been thinking of you folks there.  The satellite photo  
Jeff posted sure showed the storm looking ominous.  Can't be good with  
all that dust.
All the best to everyone over there.
Mike in CO

On Sep 24, 2009, at 8:53 PM, W&S Schroer wrote:

> Hi list,
> it's Friday morning and the city is covered under a cloud of dust  
> again. It's not as bad yet as it was three days ago but I'm sure  
> that out in the desert more meteorites will be exposed thanks to the  
> relentless storm.
> Unfortunately, the bi-annual Gem & Mineral Show started today and  
> will end on Sunday. Most stall holder have travelled hundreds of  
> miles to get here, so for them it will be a financial disaster if it  
> doesn't calm down soon.
>
> Storms are quite common this time of the year but they normally  
> don't carry dust of this magnitude. The dust was originally moved  
> earlier this year from inner eastern Australia to the west when  
> unusual heavy downpours in north-eastern Australia created countless  
> little 'rivers' and filled up the normally dry salt lake called Lake  
> Eyre in the north of South Australia. Something like this happens  
> only once in every decade or even less and it creates a wonderful  
> show of nature where the wildlife flourishes for a few months until  
> the lake dries up again.
>
> And this is happening now and millions of fish and thousand of  
> pelicans and many more other animals are dying. A paradise is  
> turning into hell right now and since hundreds of thousand tons of  
> fine dust travelled with the water to this region, it is changing  
> now from mud to dust again and those normally harmless yearly storms  
> pick up this fine material and carry it from west to east covering a  
> large part of Australia.
> Unfortunately, Broken Hill is the first major city that gets hit by  
> these storms and by the time they reach the east coast with cities  
> like Sydney and Brisbane, the number of particles per cm? is much  
> less. Still, people with health problems will be badly affected  
> there too.
>
> Anyway, nothing can stop me from going to that show. Who knows, with  
> the top soil blown away I might find a meteorite on the foot path.....
>
> Cheers
> Werner Schroer
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Fri Sep 25 00:15:20 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 23:15:20 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
References: <154017.13586.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A814387CCF9E4D3281D0CDCBED4CB0C1@ATARIENGINE2>

Dean,

The old English Common Law is that a Tresure Trove is
buried gold or silver that was being hidden or "banked"
and was meant to be recovered later and is presumed to
be so old that the owner and any known desecendents are
dead. It becomes the property of the Crown, just as
abandoned bank accounts become the property of the
state unless claimed by the owner or an heir. Just
finding it is not enough to claim it. (Scotland and Wales
have their own common law provisions.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_trove#United_Kingdom
details the Treasure Act of 1996, which generously broadens
and re-defines legal "treasure" as the property of the Crown.
If the treasure is to be transferred to a museum (as this will)
the Secretary of State is "required to determine whether a
reward should be paid by the museum before the transfer to
the finder or any other person involved in the finding of the
treasure, the occupier of the land at the time of the find, or
any person who had an interest in the land at the time of the
find or has had such an interest at any time since then. If the
Secretary of State determines that a reward should be paid,
he or she must also determine the market value of the treasure
(assisted by the Treasure Valuation Committee), the amount
of the reward (which cannot exceed the market value), to whom
the reward should be paid and, if more than one person should
be paid, how much each person should receive."

For example, the huge find at Sutton Hoo was NOT a treasure
trove because there was no intention to recover it -- they were
grave goods. In March 1973, a hoard of 7,811 Roman coins was
found buried in a field at Coleby in Lincolnshire. It was made
up of antoniniani believed to have been minted between 253
and 281 A.D. The Court of Appeal of England and Wales held
in the 1981 case of Attorney-General of the Duchy of Lancaster
v. G.E. Overton (Farms) Ltd. that the hoard was not treasure
trove as the coins did not have a substantial silver content.
Thus, it belonged to the owner of the field... (Note: the
antoniniani was originally a silver coin valued at two denarii
but with only 1.5 denarii worth of silver in it; the rest was
bronze. It was "inflation money." The Empire kept adding more
bronze in place of silver until it was worthless. But if you find
7800 of 'em, let me know.)

One hopes that the reward intentions of the Crown are
generous, but there seem to be no guarantees in the law.
There don't seem to be bones with this "treasure," so the
finders can't argue that it was, like Sutton Hoo, grave goods.
It seems to be a clear-cut case of "hoard." I suspect the
general elation over the find will incline government to
reward the finders. Failure to do so would incline future
finders to loot sites and that's the last thing they want.
On the black market, this find would be evaluated at a
worth of tens of millions.


Sterling K.  Webb
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dean bessey" <deanbessey at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England


Well, I am not that up on british law and maybe there is a british legal 
clause that the guys dont own it. That is however different from what 
the article says as it clearly says that they will split the proceeds 
(Not that reporters always get the details right when it comes to 
value).
It is also contrary to what my friends who are coin and artifact dealers 
have to say about british cultural property laws. Most of them are quite 
happy with how the british handle things and you never hear stories 
about how they got screwed by the cultural property department (Compare 
what people have to say about britain to what they say about canadian 
cultural property laws for example).
Maybe though you are right and that these guys will in fact not get a 
cent. I am not a lawyer. But I am leaning toward thinking that they will 
get a fair shake come payoff time. But if I am wrong and these guys do 
get their loot legally stolen from them by the government you can bet 
that the next gold stash that is found wont end up being studied and on 
public display but will discreetly get sent to switzerland shaped as not 
so small shiney cubes.
My bet is that the guys running the cultural property system in britian 
is smarter than that.
Cheers
DEAN

--- On Thu, 9/24/09, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com> 
wrote:

> From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 3:46 PM
> Hi Greg, Dean, All,
>
> This amazing hoard was found just a short distance away
> from me near a place called Brownhills at the side of the
> A5. Lots of discussion about its value on the news as usual.
> I think that in this case it will be classed as treasure as
> it was deliberately hidden ( I think the law is different if
> it is classed as lost ) and will not belong to the landowner
> or the finder, so will not be sold but go to the museums.
> Once valued their will be a reward allocated which in this
> case will belong to the finder as he got permission to
> search from the landowner. Apparently he has agreed to share
> that with the landowner...which only seems fair.
>
> I intend to visit the museum in Birmingham over the weekend
> to see this exciting historical find right on my doorstep.
>
> Graham Ensor, UK
>
>
> ---- dean bessey <deanbessey at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > > From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
> > >
> > > think also that the true story is all about good
> luck and
> > > the willingness to get permission and agreements
> from
> > > property owners!
> > >
> > It is more than that. It is also an example of common
> sense historical artifact laws at work. Britain has
> constructed their artifact laws in such a way that it is in
> a finders best interest to report all of their findings (It
> is also illegal to not report your findings but that dont
> really give you much incentive and wont work anyway).
> > As a result whenever artifact or coin hoards get found
> in UK everybody who is interested gets to study them and
> learn as much history as possible from the stash. And the
> actual finder gets more money for them than if he tried to
> sell them in secret on the UNESCO black market (Probably has
> to pay taxes on the sale of the hoard also). Finder,
> science, general public, government, land owners - everybody
> wins with british cultural property laws.
> > If this stash of gold was found in Italy, Israel,
> Egypt or Peru, the site would have been very quickly
> destroyed behond recognition and reburied (After dark and
> probably all in one night) to hide any evidence of the sites
> existance, and the gold melted down, stamped Johnson matthey
> and (With the governments full blessing) shipped out of the
> country.
> > Rather than being studied by researchers as this hoard
> will be, it would have gone on the next fed ex flight out
> and went directly from the archaeological site to a swiss
> bank vault.
> > It would have been UNESCO at work
> > Sincerely
> > DEAN
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From brimane at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 06:01:46 2009
From: brimane at gmail.com (brian burrer)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 03:01:46 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Another dust storm hits Broken Hill in Australia
Message-ID: <7fd4f0d50909250301q443ddc9fg6514670259e51c57@mail.gmail.com>

It is always a shame to see so much topsoil being stripped from the
land.  I sympathize with those who are getting their land ravaged by
deflation.  It has been pointed out by other listees that meteorites
are surfacing- it is a crime against science that Oz officials have
removed practically all incentive to recover them.  But there is a
silver lining for tektite hunters; this same deflation event is also
exposing thousands of australites.  I wish a perfect flanged button to
all who venture out and search.  Oh yeah, and you get to keep tektites
in Australia!

Cheers, Brian


From brimane at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 06:16:24 2009
From: brimane at gmail.com (brian burrer)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 03:16:24 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alabama tektite discovered
Message-ID: <7fd4f0d50909250316wa237008md75757044a7bfa6c@mail.gmail.com>

It appears that a tektite has been recovered in western Alabama.  The
age of the strata underlying the recovery area is consistant with
other North American tektite locales.  The stone weighs around 7 grams
and is a darker green than Georgia tektites.  It is currently being
given a thorough set of tests at an undisclosed university.  If the
tektite holds up to scientific scrutiny it will be the first confirmed
tektite to be recovered between the Georgia and Texas fields.  Had I
been the one to find it I would hope I was wearing a 'Depends'
undergarment!

Cheers,  Brian


From grf2 at comcast.net  Fri Sep 25 08:19:51 2009
From: grf2 at comcast.net (Jerry Flaherty)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:19:51 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Thars H2O in them thar digs
Message-ID: <7671EBC163C34BD4A9B540B953247E93@ASUS>

NASA ups estimate of Lunar water by 100%. Polar rocks may contain up to 
100ppm. Still micro amounts but startling nevertheless.
Jerry Flaherty 



From brimane at gmail.com  Fri Sep 25 08:42:37 2009
From: brimane at gmail.com (brian burrer)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 05:42:37 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alabama tektite correction
Message-ID: <7fd4f0d50909250542t12e3e60y8c7e9d05f6b24f9d@mail.gmail.com>

The earlier posting about the discovery of a tektite in Alabama has
one error- the find was in eastern, not western Alabama.

Cheers,  Brian


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 25 11:31:14 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:31:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] tonne Muonionalusta, Sweden meteorite
Message-ID: <854360.82714.qm@web53108.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear List,

News and video about a tonne Muonionalusta meteorite going on display in Sweden.
http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/

Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo


From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 25 11:40:59 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:40:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: armored mud balls
Message-ID: <251048.85713.qm@web53112.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear List,
  An article about armored mud balls:

http://igs.indiana.edu/Geology/rocks/armored_mud_balls/index.cfm

Dirk Ross...Tokyo


From mikewren at gilanet.com  Fri Sep 25 13:24:17 2009
From: mikewren at gilanet.com (michael cottingham)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:24:17 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD: More Great Pieces Added At Lowest Prices EVER!
Message-ID: <63A2F11F-E657-469A-ABD0-A1A13234547B@gilanet.com>

Hello,

I have added even more collection pieces to my list of Extreme Low  
Priced Pieces...Do Not Believe Me-Well Look Around and Then Come Back  
And Grab Them!


Check This One Out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200387899247


Or See These:

http://shop.ebay.com:80/merchant/meteorite-collector_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ

Thanks and Best Wishes

Michael


From gmhupe at htn.net  Fri Sep 25 14:30:30 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:30:30 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
References: <154017.13586.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
	<A814387CCF9E4D3281D0CDCBED4CB0C1@ATARIENGINE2>
Message-ID: <A817B0EBDA0B4335976B8FEBC53CB486@Gregor>

Hello All who commented on the Gold Hoard,

I appreciate all of the comments and contributions of British law regarding 
this find, and others. From what I have heard of past British finds and of 
this one, I look forward to hearing of the finder and property owner's 
payday, which I am sure will be the case. Britain does seem to have their 
laws tailored to be the advantage to all involved, everyone benefits! I 
agree that the treasure should go to the museums, but also strongly believe 
that the finder needs to be fairly compensated for their efforts and private 
funds to conduct such hunts. Without the private sector spending untold 
millions of dollars per year in search of treasure and other items 
throughout the world, there would be much less cultural and historic items 
to be shared with the world. Sadly, in many cases, we hear of countries 
legally 'stealing' (as Dean commented) private hunters finds. These 
countries and their broad-reaching laws create the black market instead of 
penning fair laws which benefit everyone.

If anyone goes to view these items, I would like to see some photos if 
possible. That, or if a web site is created, please send a link. Thanks!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
To: "dean bessey" <deanbessey at yahoo.com>; 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England


> Dean,
>
> The old English Common Law is that a Tresure Trove is
> buried gold or silver that was being hidden or "banked"
> and was meant to be recovered later and is presumed to
> be so old that the owner and any known desecendents are
> dead. It becomes the property of the Crown, just as
> abandoned bank accounts become the property of the
> state unless claimed by the owner or an heir. Just
> finding it is not enough to claim it. (Scotland and Wales
> have their own common law provisions.)
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_trove#United_Kingdom
> details the Treasure Act of 1996, which generously broadens
> and re-defines legal "treasure" as the property of the Crown.
> If the treasure is to be transferred to a museum (as this will)
> the Secretary of State is "required to determine whether a
> reward should be paid by the museum before the transfer to
> the finder or any other person involved in the finding of the
> treasure, the occupier of the land at the time of the find, or
> any person who had an interest in the land at the time of the
> find or has had such an interest at any time since then. If the
> Secretary of State determines that a reward should be paid,
> he or she must also determine the market value of the treasure
> (assisted by the Treasure Valuation Committee), the amount
> of the reward (which cannot exceed the market value), to whom
> the reward should be paid and, if more than one person should
> be paid, how much each person should receive."
>
> For example, the huge find at Sutton Hoo was NOT a treasure
> trove because there was no intention to recover it -- they were
> grave goods. In March 1973, a hoard of 7,811 Roman coins was
> found buried in a field at Coleby in Lincolnshire. It was made
> up of antoniniani believed to have been minted between 253
> and 281 A.D. The Court of Appeal of England and Wales held
> in the 1981 case of Attorney-General of the Duchy of Lancaster
> v. G.E. Overton (Farms) Ltd. that the hoard was not treasure
> trove as the coins did not have a substantial silver content.
> Thus, it belonged to the owner of the field... (Note: the
> antoniniani was originally a silver coin valued at two denarii
> but with only 1.5 denarii worth of silver in it; the rest was
> bronze. It was "inflation money." The Empire kept adding more
> bronze in place of silver until it was worthless. But if you find
> 7800 of 'em, let me know.)
>
> One hopes that the reward intentions of the Crown are
> generous, but there seem to be no guarantees in the law.
> There don't seem to be bones with this "treasure," so the
> finders can't argue that it was, like Sutton Hoo, grave goods.
> It seems to be a clear-cut case of "hoard." I suspect the
> general elation over the find will incline government to
> reward the finders. Failure to do so would incline future
> finders to loot sites and that's the last thing they want.
> On the black market, this find would be evaluated at a
> worth of tens of millions.
>
>
> Sterling K.  Webb
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "dean bessey" <deanbessey at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
>
>
> Well, I am not that up on british law and maybe there is a british legal 
> clause that the guys dont own it. That is however different from what the 
> article says as it clearly says that they will split the proceeds (Not 
> that reporters always get the details right when it comes to value).
> It is also contrary to what my friends who are coin and artifact dealers 
> have to say about british cultural property laws. Most of them are quite 
> happy with how the british handle things and you never hear stories about 
> how they got screwed by the cultural property department (Compare what 
> people have to say about britain to what they say about canadian cultural 
> property laws for example).
> Maybe though you are right and that these guys will in fact not get a 
> cent. I am not a lawyer. But I am leaning toward thinking that they will 
> get a fair shake come payoff time. But if I am wrong and these guys do get 
> their loot legally stolen from them by the government you can bet that the 
> next gold stash that is found wont end up being studied and on public 
> display but will discreetly get sent to switzerland shaped as not so small 
> shiney cubes.
> My bet is that the guys running the cultural property system in britian is 
> smarter than that.
> Cheers
> DEAN
>
> --- On Thu, 9/24/09, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com> 
> wrote:
>
>> From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 3:46 PM
>> Hi Greg, Dean, All,
>>
>> This amazing hoard was found just a short distance away
>> from me near a place called Brownhills at the side of the
>> A5. Lots of discussion about its value on the news as usual.
>> I think that in this case it will be classed as treasure as
>> it was deliberately hidden ( I think the law is different if
>> it is classed as lost ) and will not belong to the landowner
>> or the finder, so will not be sold but go to the museums.
>> Once valued their will be a reward allocated which in this
>> case will belong to the finder as he got permission to
>> search from the landowner. Apparently he has agreed to share
>> that with the landowner...which only seems fair.
>>
>> I intend to visit the museum in Birmingham over the weekend
>> to see this exciting historical find right on my doorstep.
>>
>> Graham Ensor, UK
>>
>>
>> ---- dean bessey <deanbessey at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
>> > >
>> > > think also that the true story is all about good
>> luck and
>> > > the willingness to get permission and agreements
>> from
>> > > property owners!
>> > >
>> > It is more than that. It is also an example of common
>> sense historical artifact laws at work. Britain has
>> constructed their artifact laws in such a way that it is in
>> a finders best interest to report all of their findings (It
>> is also illegal to not report your findings but that dont
>> really give you much incentive and wont work anyway).
>> > As a result whenever artifact or coin hoards get found
>> in UK everybody who is interested gets to study them and
>> learn as much history as possible from the stash. And the
>> actual finder gets more money for them than if he tried to
>> sell them in secret on the UNESCO black market (Probably has
>> to pay taxes on the sale of the hoard also). Finder,
>> science, general public, government, land owners - everybody
>> wins with british cultural property laws.
>> > If this stash of gold was found in Italy, Israel,
>> Egypt or Peru, the site would have been very quickly
>> destroyed behond recognition and reburied (After dark and
>> probably all in one night) to hide any evidence of the sites
>> existance, and the gold melted down, stamped Johnson matthey
>> and (With the governments full blessing) shipped out of the
>> country.
>> > Rather than being studied by researchers as this hoard
>> will be, it would have gone on the next fed ex flight out
>> and went directly from the archaeological site to a swiss
>> bank vault.
>> > It would have been UNESCO at work
>> > Sincerely
>> > DEAN
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
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From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Fri Sep 25 14:45:58 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:45:58 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
References: <154017.13586.qm@web56105.mail.re3.yahoo.com><A814387CCF9E4D3281D0CDCBED4CB0C1@ATARIENGINE2>
	<A817B0EBDA0B4335976B8FEBC53CB486@Gregor>
Message-ID: <E832EE9B568B4690A4EF72844B7DBE7E@ATARIENGINE2>

Photos of the Gold Hoard:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/09/24/staffordshire.uk.gold.hoard/index.html#cnnSTCPhoto


Sterling K. Webb
-------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
To: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>; "dean bessey" 
<deanbessey at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England


> Hello All who commented on the Gold Hoard,
>
> I appreciate all of the comments and contributions of British law 
> regarding this find, and others. From what I have heard of past 
> British finds and of this one, I look forward to hearing of the finder 
> and property owner's payday, which I am sure will be the case. Britain 
> does seem to have their laws tailored to be the advantage to all 
> involved, everyone benefits! I agree that the treasure should go to 
> the museums, but also strongly believe that the finder needs to be 
> fairly compensated for their efforts and private funds to conduct such 
> hunts. Without the private sector spending untold millions of dollars 
> per year in search of treasure and other items throughout the world, 
> there would be much less cultural and historic items to be shared with 
> the world. Sadly, in many cases, we hear of countries legally 
> 'stealing' (as Dean commented) private hunters finds. These countries 
> and their broad-reaching laws create the black market instead of 
> penning fair laws which benefit everyone.
>
> If anyone goes to view these items, I would like to see some photos if 
> possible. That, or if a web site is created, please send a link. 
> Thanks!
>
> Best regards,
> Greg
>
> ====================
> Greg Hupe
> The Hupe Collection
> NaturesVault (eBay)
> gmhupe at htn.net
> www.LunarRock.com
> IMCA 3163
> ====================
> Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sterling K. Webb" <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "dean bessey" <deanbessey at yahoo.com>; 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 12:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
>
>
>> Dean,
>>
>> The old English Common Law is that a Tresure Trove is
>> buried gold or silver that was being hidden or "banked"
>> and was meant to be recovered later and is presumed to
>> be so old that the owner and any known desecendents are
>> dead. It becomes the property of the Crown, just as
>> abandoned bank accounts become the property of the
>> state unless claimed by the owner or an heir. Just
>> finding it is not enough to claim it. (Scotland and Wales
>> have their own common law provisions.)
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_trove#United_Kingdom
>> details the Treasure Act of 1996, which generously broadens
>> and re-defines legal "treasure" as the property of the Crown.
>> If the treasure is to be transferred to a museum (as this will)
>> the Secretary of State is "required to determine whether a
>> reward should be paid by the museum before the transfer to
>> the finder or any other person involved in the finding of the
>> treasure, the occupier of the land at the time of the find, or
>> any person who had an interest in the land at the time of the
>> find or has had such an interest at any time since then. If the
>> Secretary of State determines that a reward should be paid,
>> he or she must also determine the market value of the treasure
>> (assisted by the Treasure Valuation Committee), the amount
>> of the reward (which cannot exceed the market value), to whom
>> the reward should be paid and, if more than one person should
>> be paid, how much each person should receive."
>>
>> For example, the huge find at Sutton Hoo was NOT a treasure
>> trove because there was no intention to recover it -- they were
>> grave goods. In March 1973, a hoard of 7,811 Roman coins was
>> found buried in a field at Coleby in Lincolnshire. It was made
>> up of antoniniani believed to have been minted between 253
>> and 281 A.D. The Court of Appeal of England and Wales held
>> in the 1981 case of Attorney-General of the Duchy of Lancaster
>> v. G.E. Overton (Farms) Ltd. that the hoard was not treasure
>> trove as the coins did not have a substantial silver content.
>> Thus, it belonged to the owner of the field... (Note: the
>> antoniniani was originally a silver coin valued at two denarii
>> but with only 1.5 denarii worth of silver in it; the rest was
>> bronze. It was "inflation money." The Empire kept adding more
>> bronze in place of silver until it was worthless. But if you find
>> 7800 of 'em, let me know.)
>>
>> One hopes that the reward intentions of the Crown are
>> generous, but there seem to be no guarantees in the law.
>> There don't seem to be bones with this "treasure," so the
>> finders can't argue that it was, like Sutton Hoo, grave goods.
>> It seems to be a clear-cut case of "hoard." I suspect the
>> general elation over the find will incline government to
>> reward the finders. Failure to do so would incline future
>> finders to loot sites and that's the last thing they want.
>> On the black market, this find would be evaluated at a
>> worth of tens of millions.
>>
>>
>> Sterling K.  Webb
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "dean bessey" <deanbessey at yahoo.com>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:10 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
>>
>>
>> Well, I am not that up on british law and maybe there is a british 
>> legal clause that the guys dont own it. That is however different 
>> from what the article says as it clearly says that they will split 
>> the proceeds (Not that reporters always get the details right when it 
>> comes to value).
>> It is also contrary to what my friends who are coin and artifact 
>> dealers have to say about british cultural property laws. Most of 
>> them are quite happy with how the british handle things and you never 
>> hear stories about how they got screwed by the cultural property 
>> department (Compare what people have to say about britain to what 
>> they say about canadian cultural property laws for example).
>> Maybe though you are right and that these guys will in fact not get a 
>> cent. I am not a lawyer. But I am leaning toward thinking that they 
>> will get a fair shake come payoff time. But if I am wrong and these 
>> guys do get their loot legally stolen from them by the government you 
>> can bet that the next gold stash that is found wont end up being 
>> studied and on public display but will discreetly get sent to 
>> switzerland shaped as not so small shiney cubes.
>> My bet is that the guys running the cultural property system in 
>> britian is smarter than that.
>> Cheers
>> DEAN
>>
>> --- On Thu, 9/24/09, ensoramanda at ntlworld.com 
>> <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: ensoramanda at ntlworld.com <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Date: Thursday, September 24, 2009, 3:46 PM
>>> Hi Greg, Dean, All,
>>>
>>> This amazing hoard was found just a short distance away
>>> from me near a place called Brownhills at the side of the
>>> A5. Lots of discussion about its value on the news as usual.
>>> I think that in this case it will be classed as treasure as
>>> it was deliberately hidden ( I think the law is different if
>>> it is classed as lost ) and will not belong to the landowner
>>> or the finder, so will not be sold but go to the museums.
>>> Once valued their will be a reward allocated which in this
>>> case will belong to the finder as he got permission to
>>> search from the landowner. Apparently he has agreed to share
>>> that with the landowner...which only seems fair.
>>>
>>> I intend to visit the museum in Birmingham over the weekend
>>> to see this exciting historical find right on my doorstep.
>>>
>>> Graham Ensor, UK
>>>
>>>
>>> ---- dean bessey <deanbessey at yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > > From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
>>> > >
>>> > > think also that the true story is all about good
>>> luck and
>>> > > the willingness to get permission and agreements
>>> from
>>> > > property owners!
>>> > >
>>> > It is more than that. It is also an example of common
>>> sense historical artifact laws at work. Britain has
>>> constructed their artifact laws in such a way that it is in
>>> a finders best interest to report all of their findings (It
>>> is also illegal to not report your findings but that dont
>>> really give you much incentive and wont work anyway).
>>> > As a result whenever artifact or coin hoards get found
>>> in UK everybody who is interested gets to study them and
>>> learn as much history as possible from the stash. And the
>>> actual finder gets more money for them than if he tried to
>>> sell them in secret on the UNESCO black market (Probably has
>>> to pay taxes on the sale of the hoard also). Finder,
>>> science, general public, government, land owners - everybody
>>> wins with british cultural property laws.
>>> > If this stash of gold was found in Italy, Israel,
>>> Egypt or Peru, the site would have been very quickly
>>> destroyed behond recognition and reburied (After dark and
>>> probably all in one night) to hide any evidence of the sites
>>> existance, and the gold melted down, stamped Johnson matthey
>>> and (With the governments full blessing) shipped out of the
>>> country.
>>> > Rather than being studied by researchers as this hoard
>>> will be, it would have gone on the next fed ex flight out
>>> and went directly from the archaeological site to a swiss
>>> bank vault.
>>> > It would have been UNESCO at work
>>> > Sincerely
>>> > DEAN
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ______________________________________________
>>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From volcanoted at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 25 14:47:34 2009
From: volcanoted at yahoo.com (ted brattstrom)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:47:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: Re:  OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
Message-ID: <906078.63918.qm@web53606.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


 Some Nice pictures of the Hoard
 
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8272370.stm
 
 cheers - ted
 
 --- On Fri, 9/25/09, Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
 wrote:
 
 > From: Greg Hupe <gmhupe at htn.net>
 > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
 > Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 8:30 AM
 > Hello All who commented on the Gold
>
> 
> > If anyone goes to view these items, I would like to see
> > some photos if possible. That, or if a web site is created,
> > please send a link. Thanks!
> > 
> > Best regards,
> > Greg
> > 
> > ====================
> > Greg Hupe
> > The Hupe Collection


__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From cdtucson at cox.net  Wed Sep 23 13:07:35 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 10:07:35 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] get together
In-Reply-To: <BLU137-W31FAE7162C43B52FEA7F20D6DB0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20090923130735.0KLWN.324672.imail@fed1rmwml33>

Melanie,
I don't know how to organize any such show but I will say that if you come to the Tucson show it is a meteorite lovers heaven. 
Every major dealer in the World is there and they bring their best stuff. All of their best stuff. The show is spread around town in different hotels and the rooms are set up like mini museums. You get to not only see but actually hold any thing you want. 
I remember back in I think it was around 1990 , I walked into Bob Haags room and he handed me this small rock. I examined it carefully and his words were( as he cupped his hands beneath mine) " You are holding an actual piece of the moon". This was calcalong creek and was the first Moon rock available to private collectors. Yes, I held it in my hands without gloves and it was not encased in Plexiglas.
Nowadays between Michael Bloods auction which includes twinks meteorite cake and the meteorite Men's Birthday bash which includes the Harvey awards ( as in Harvey Nininger) . It is a vacation of a lifetime. 
I can honestly say once you attend this show you will think about nothing else for months. 
It is during  Tucson's  best weather period and peek tourist season so hotel rates are at a premium but again it is well worth every nickel spent. Tucson also has world class restaurants and golf while not admiring  at space rocks and dinosaurs and world class gems and minerals as well. Did I mention a jewelry paradise and all at wholesale pricing. 
Good luck meeting elsewhere but please try not to miss Tucson. Carl

--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Melanie Matthews <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com> wrote: 
> 
> Hello, List, 
> I've been thinking... how about a get together for us meteorite enthusiasts, or even a meteorite show sometime here on Vancouver Island or the Lower Mainland of Southern British Columbia, Canada? 
> 
> I don't yet have a passport - which I'll need to get into the US (should be getting one soon, though),, and I'd love to get to meet you guys, and get to see/handle some of the best out of your meteorite collections! The countryside is absolutely gorgeous where I live in the Comox/Courtenay area.. :) 
> 
> Maybe we could plan a date which might be good for many of you to come up this way? 
> 
> Regards 
> -----------
> Melanie 
> IMCA: 2975
> eBay: metmel2775
> Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
>  
> Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know what you're gonna get! 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> New! Open Messenger faster on the MSN homepage
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677405
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From cdtucson at cox.net  Wed Sep 23 23:56:30 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 20:56:30 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
In-Reply-To: <D308DDA8-8B5B-44D5-B499-3A11C143FBEF@montrose.net>
Message-ID: <20090923235630.06T9R.330583.imail@fed1rmwml31>

Michael, 
By the way my posts take several hours to post to the list. I don't know why. 
You are very interesting. What do you mean by Native Iron vs. meteorite iron? To me all iron is either man made or meteorite so, what is native? Do you mean Josephineite or what? I hunt old ranches in AZ where it has an old history including lots of old tools made by whomever, Indians, Spaniards, conquistadors, miners, etc. I think some of these metal objects are made from meteorite material. maybe even the Tucson irons? 
Your test helps me to determine that. They do not magnetize. So, maybe they are meteorite material. 
The allergy test in my experience is far to sensitive. It detects even the smallest trace amounts of Nickel. Your test seems much better for a preliminary test to choose which pile things go to. 
Thanks again. I am very thankful to all who post on this list. Your's are great to see and very helpful. please tell more about these special features. Carl

--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net> wrote: 
> Glad you found it useful.  I wanted to share too that native iron  
> reacts real close to the same as a meteorite will to the magnetism.   
> So you might want to watch for that.    I sent one of about 20 some  
> pieces of native iron I have to AZ to a lab and they confirmed that  
> that is what it is.  I have learned to tell the difference in the two  
> mainly by sight.  Native iron is rougher looking than an iron  
> meteorite and some of the pieces I have have a strange mineral habit  
> clearly visible on the surface.  BTW, these pieces of native iron do  
> not test positive for nickel or at least not for me here with the  
> alertest Ni test or at the lab in AZ.   I tried to send some to UCLA  
> for a nickel test but they were a little too busy.  I can't blame them  
> though for not wanting to take time away from more important things to  
> test my little chunk.
> 
> Best of luck finding those iron meteorites.
> 
> Mike in CO
> 
> On Sep 23, 2009, at 8:31 PM, <cdtucson at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> > Michael,
> > I would first of all like to thank you for this great information.
> > Secondly , I would like to tell you that hopefully your test is  
> > definitive. As evidence that it is. I just tried to magnetize a  
> > bunch of small CD's and Odessa's that I have and none of them became  
> > magnetized. This proves you are correct at least for the ones I  
> > tried. In addition I also tried to magnetize a couple of prospects  
> > that I have and they too did not become magnetized and yet other  
> > pieces of found metal that's clearly not meteorite material did  
> > become magnetized. You are quite the genius and thank you so very  
> > much for sharing. Thank you again and again. Carl
> > PS they claim if results can be replicated that theory becomes fact?  
> > I hope this is now a fact because a few found irons might just get  
> > added to the "it's a keeper for more testing pile."
> > --
> > Carl or Debbie Esparza
> > Meteoritemax
> >
> >
> > ---- Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net> wrote:
> >> For what they are worth, here are a couple suggestions...
> >> If you place the suspect iron on a strong magnet, then remove the
> >> magnet, the suspect iron should not retain magnetism (if it's a
> >> meteorite) but should to some extent if man-made iron. Kind of like
> >> magnetizing the tip of a screwdriver.  You can test the once
> >> magnetized suspect iron to see if it will attract fine particles of
> >> magnetite,   Not very scientific I know but it is a good indicator I
> >> think.
> >>
> >> Another thing you can try if the suspect iron is not very big is to
> >> place it on a strong magnet (super magnet if you have one) and if the
> >> iron piece wants to orient itself up on one of it's ends on the
> >> magnet, I would rule out meteorite.  If your suspect iron is large,
> >> you'd probably have to remove a small piece of it to do this test.   
> >> If
> >> the small piece lays down on any of it's sides on the magnet and
> >> doesn't want to orient itself, I'd put it in my 'it's a keeper for
> >> more testing' pile.
> >>
> >> I bought a couple nickel test kits.  I have tried to be as careful as
> >> possible to do a clean uncontaminated test on several suspect irons.
> >> After doing quite a few, I still don't trust the results.  It's not
> >> that I don't get positives, I do.  It's that I've learned not trust
> >> the positive tests all that much.  If I find a big enough suspect  
> >> iron
> >> someday with enough other indicators that it could be a meteorite  
> >> then
> >> I will let a lab do the testing so I can rest assured the results are
> >> going to be more trustworthy than mine.  Meanwhile, my 'it's a keeper
> >> for more testing' pile continues to grow.
> >>
> >> Mike in CO
> >>
> >> On Sep 23, 2009, at 12:27 PM, Mike Hankey wrote:
> >>
> >>> I've done some nickel tests on some of the slag/meteor wrongs we
> >>> have found.
> >>>
> >>> It tests positive for nickel.
> >>>
> >>> Does this sound normal?
> >>>
> >>> So I guess the only way to confirm slag (if you can't do it  
> >>> visually)
> >>> is to cut it open and if there are holes / bubbles then it is  
> >>> slag. Or
> >>> if the slice doesn't look like a meteorite slice it is slag.
> >>>
> >>> For the record, I am personally looking for west like fusion crusted
> >>> stones and this is what I am training people to look for. At the  
> >>> same
> >>> time when I get reports about weird rocks I have to follow up and  
> >>> take
> >>> a look. Not all slag looks the same, there are a lot of different
> >>> types. I'm getting pretty good at identifying / ruling things out,  
> >>> but
> >>> the nickel test threw me for a loop.
> >>> ______________________________________________
> >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From cdtucson at cox.net  Wed Sep 23 22:04:11 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:04:11 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
In-Reply-To: <8FEE66C0-582E-4F9B-84DA-ADFEC33B74A7@montrose.net>
Message-ID: <20090923220411.BBO1U.330923.imail@fed1rmwml32>

List, 
This is very interesting.
I recently sent a metal axe object to Dr. Pierre Rochette at the university in Marseilles france . My specimen tested positive for nickel but come to find out it actually had none and this is what he had to say.;

The chemical Ni test is a problem, but you have to know that pure Fe 
> also give a strong red color on that test, the presence of Ni just 
> alter a bit the tone. 
> 
> regards 
> -- 
> Pierre 

So, I guess the color matters too.
Carl 

--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net> wrote: 
> For what they are worth, here are a couple suggestions...
> If you place the suspect iron on a strong magnet, then remove the  
> magnet, the suspect iron should not retain magnetism (if it's a  
> meteorite) but should to some extent if man-made iron. Kind of like  
> magnetizing the tip of a screwdriver.  You can test the once  
> magnetized suspect iron to see if it will attract fine particles of  
> magnetite,   Not very scientific I know but it is a good indicator I  
> think.
> 
> Another thing you can try if the suspect iron is not very big is to  
> place it on a strong magnet (super magnet if you have one) and if the  
> iron piece wants to orient itself up on one of it's ends on the  
> magnet, I would rule out meteorite.  If your suspect iron is large,  
> you'd probably have to remove a small piece of it to do this test.  If  
> the small piece lays down on any of it's sides on the magnet and  
> doesn't want to orient itself, I'd put it in my 'it's a keeper for  
> more testing' pile.
> 
> I bought a couple nickel test kits.  I have tried to be as careful as  
> possible to do a clean uncontaminated test on several suspect irons.   
> After doing quite a few, I still don't trust the results.  It's not  
> that I don't get positives, I do.  It's that I've learned not trust  
> the positive tests all that much.  If I find a big enough suspect iron  
> someday with enough other indicators that it could be a meteorite then  
> I will let a lab do the testing so I can rest assured the results are  
> going to be more trustworthy than mine.  Meanwhile, my 'it's a keeper  
> for more testing' pile continues to grow.
> 
> Mike in CO
> 
> On Sep 23, 2009, at 12:27 PM, Mike Hankey wrote:
> 
> > I've done some nickel tests on some of the slag/meteor wrongs we  
> > have found.
> >
> > It tests positive for nickel.
> >
> > Does this sound normal?
> >
> > So I guess the only way to confirm slag (if you can't do it visually)
> > is to cut it open and if there are holes / bubbles then it is slag. Or
> > if the slice doesn't look like a meteorite slice it is slag.
> >
> > For the record, I am personally looking for west like fusion crusted
> > stones and this is what I am training people to look for. At the same
> > time when I get reports about weird rocks I have to follow up and take
> > a look. Not all slag looks the same, there are a lot of different
> > types. I'm getting pretty good at identifying / ruling things out, but
> > the nickel test threw me for a loop.
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From cdtucson at cox.net  Wed Sep 23 22:31:34 2009
From: cdtucson at cox.net (cdtucson at cox.net)
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 19:31:34 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Nickel tests
In-Reply-To: <8FEE66C0-582E-4F9B-84DA-ADFEC33B74A7@montrose.net>
Message-ID: <20090923223134.OPYG0.331275.imail@fed1rmwml32>

Michael,
 I would first of all like to thank you for this great information. 
Secondly , I would like to tell you that hopefully your test is definitive. As evidence that it is. I just tried to magnetize a bunch of small CD's and Odessa's that I have and none of them became magnetized. This proves you are correct at least for the ones I tried. In addition I also tried to magnetize a couple of prospects that I have and they too did not become magnetized and yet other pieces of found metal that's clearly not meteorite material did become magnetized. You are quite the genius and thank you so very much for sharing. Thank you again and again. Carl
PS they claim if results can be replicated that theory becomes fact? I hope this is now a fact because a few found irons might just get added to the "it's a keeper for more testing pile."  
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


---- Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net> wrote: 
> For what they are worth, here are a couple suggestions...
> If you place the suspect iron on a strong magnet, then remove the  
> magnet, the suspect iron should not retain magnetism (if it's a  
> meteorite) but should to some extent if man-made iron. Kind of like  
> magnetizing the tip of a screwdriver.  You can test the once  
> magnetized suspect iron to see if it will attract fine particles of  
> magnetite,   Not very scientific I know but it is a good indicator I  
> think.
> 
> Another thing you can try if the suspect iron is not very big is to  
> place it on a strong magnet (super magnet if you have one) and if the  
> iron piece wants to orient itself up on one of it's ends on the  
> magnet, I would rule out meteorite.  If your suspect iron is large,  
> you'd probably have to remove a small piece of it to do this test.  If  
> the small piece lays down on any of it's sides on the magnet and  
> doesn't want to orient itself, I'd put it in my 'it's a keeper for  
> more testing' pile.
> 
> I bought a couple nickel test kits.  I have tried to be as careful as  
> possible to do a clean uncontaminated test on several suspect irons.   
> After doing quite a few, I still don't trust the results.  It's not  
> that I don't get positives, I do.  It's that I've learned not trust  
> the positive tests all that much.  If I find a big enough suspect iron  
> someday with enough other indicators that it could be a meteorite then  
> I will let a lab do the testing so I can rest assured the results are  
> going to be more trustworthy than mine.  Meanwhile, my 'it's a keeper  
> for more testing' pile continues to grow.
> 
> Mike in CO
> 
> On Sep 23, 2009, at 12:27 PM, Mike Hankey wrote:
> 
> > I've done some nickel tests on some of the slag/meteor wrongs we  
> > have found.
> >
> > It tests positive for nickel.
> >
> > Does this sound normal?
> >
> > So I guess the only way to confirm slag (if you can't do it visually)
> > is to cut it open and if there are holes / bubbles then it is slag. Or
> > if the slice doesn't look like a meteorite slice it is slag.
> >
> > For the record, I am personally looking for west like fusion crusted
> > stones and this is what I am training people to look for. At the same
> > time when I get reports about weird rocks I have to follow up and take
> > a look. Not all slag looks the same, there are a lot of different
> > types. I'm getting pretty good at identifying / ruling things out, but
> > the nickel test threw me for a loop.
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From cmcdon0923 at aol.com  Fri Sep 25 18:18:08 2009
From: cmcdon0923 at aol.com (cmcdon0923 at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:18:08 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT - Gold Hoard Found in England
In-Reply-To: <mailman.25.1253913819.49946.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
References: <mailman.25.1253913819.49946.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <8CC0C453242456A-6480-8B42@webmail-d042.sysops.aol.com>

Here's the official website:


http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/










From drtanuki at yahoo.com  Fri Sep 25 20:05:42 2009
From: drtanuki at yahoo.com (drtanuki)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:05:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] tonne Muonionalusta, Sweden meteorite
In-Reply-To: <20090925155614.7JLDP.358842.imail@fed1rmwml45>
Message-ID: <935239.32879.qm@web53108.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Dear Carl,
  Thank you for viewing the site. The meteorite hitting the ping pong story was a hoax.  I post about it on my website on July 10, 2009.


Meteorite fell to Ostrava, destroyed in the Ping-Pong table.
WHERE NEXT?
Scientists now puzzled about the stone, which p?il?tl from heaven. The garden George Romans in Ostrava pingpongov?ho a hole in the table. The owner swears that it was not anything, and certainly the hole itself nevyvrtal. Finder stone finally asked the assistance of experts. ??man George returned from the cottage and found a broken ping-pong table. A pest is near. The alleged meteorite is wallowing directly under the table. Experts now just shake their heads and unable to agree whether any of the meteorite and from there took. ... (more story with video)

  The story does not say but appears to be slag?.  Dirk

http://tn.nova.cz/zpravy/regionalni/meteorit-v-ostrave-znicil-pingpongovy-stul-co-nas-ceka-dal.html

--- On Sat, 9/26/09, cdtucson at cox.net <cdtucson at cox.net> wrote:

> From: cdtucson at cox.net <cdtucson at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] tonne Muonionalusta, Sweden meteorite
> To: "drtanuki" <drtanuki at yahoo.com>
> Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 4:56 AM
> Dirk,
> On that same link there is another story about a meteorite
> that fell through a ping pong table. Do you have english
> information on that one? It appears to have NO fusion crust
> and they do rotate the stone in the video. Does it say what
> type of stony that it is? Thanks Carl
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
> 
> 
> ---- drtanuki <drtanuki at yahoo.com>
> wrote: 
> > Dear List,
> > 
> > News and video about a tonne Muonionalusta meteorite
> going on display in Sweden.
> > http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/
> > 
> > Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
> 


From cynapse at charter.net  Sat Sep 26 00:37:48 2009
From: cynapse at charter.net (Darren Garrison)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 23:37:48 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT this will get byllions and byllions of hits
In-Reply-To: <c25.6353d2e9.37e302b5@aol.com>
References: <c25.6353d2e9.37e302b5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5k6rb512iru8h1afgnsuf4oov3qelfge9q@4ax.com>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sat Sep 26 03:46:34 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 00:46:34 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT this will get byllions and byllions of hits
In-Reply-To: <5k6rb512iru8h1afgnsuf4oov3qelfge9q@4ax.com>
References: <c25.6353d2e9.37e302b5@aol.com>
	<5k6rb512iru8h1afgnsuf4oov3qelfge9q@4ax.com>
Message-ID: <4ABDC6DA.2070004@meteoritesusa.com>

Very Cool!

Thanks for posting that Darren.

Regards,
Eric


Darren Garrison wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSgiXGELjbc
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   



From bolidechaser at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 26 11:04:49 2009
From: bolidechaser at yahoo.com (Robert Verish)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:04:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fewer large asteroids than as predicted
Message-ID: <588246.94705.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

And now a word from our optimistic colleagues:

<http://arxiv.org/abs/0909.3875>

Dynamical erosion of the asteroid belt and implications for large impacts in the inner solar system

Authors: David A. Minton, Renu Malhotra
(Submitted on 21 Sep 2009)

? ? Abstract: 
The cumulative effects of weak resonant and secular perturbations by the major planets produce chaotic behavior of asteroids on long timescales. Dynamical chaos is the dominant loss mechanism for asteroids with diameters D > 10 km in the current asteroid belt. In a numerical analysis of the long term evolution of test particles in the main asteroid belt region, we find that the dynamical loss history of test particles from this region is well described with a logarithmic decay law. In our simulations the loss rate function that is established at t = 1 My persists with little deviation to at least t = 4 Gy. 

Our study indicates that the asteroid belt region has experienced a significant amount of depletion due to this dynamical erosion - having lost as much as ~50% of the large asteroids - since 1 My after the establishment of the current dynamical structure of the asteroid belt. Because the dynamical depletion of asteroids from the main belt is approximately logarithmic, an equal amount of depletion occurred in the time interval 10-200 My as in 0.2-4 Gy, roughly ~30% of the current number of large asteroids in the main belt over each interval. 

We find that asteroids escaping from the main belt due to dynamical chaos have an Earth impact probability of ~0.3%. Our model suggests that the rate of impacts from large asteroids has declined by a factor of 3 over the last 3 Gy, and that the present-day impact flux of D > 10 km objects on the terrestrial planets is roughly an order of magnitude less than estimates currently in use in crater chronologies and impact hazard risk assessments.


From romanj at sympatico.ca  Sat Sep 26 12:35:16 2009
From: romanj at sympatico.ca (Roman Jirasek)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 12:35:16 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ontario Bolide
References: <588246.94705.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP55AA3947FA12F8DF526DACA4D80@phx.gbl>

Last night just after 9pm there were many reports from my friends
and family of a huge fire ball seen over Milton and Campbellville
Ontario travelling in a southerly direction. My wife even saw it
through the window, and where was I? - in the can taking a leak!

Someone else heard it was seen from Toronto to Niagara Falls.
If that's the case, pieces might have landed south of the border.

Any one else on the list seen it?
Cheers,

Roman Jirasek
www.meteoritelabels.com






From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sat Sep 26 13:22:47 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:22:47 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Hunter Game
Message-ID: <4ABE4DE7.1000807@meteoritesusa.com>

Not what you think...

http://freegamegallery.com/play/1968/meteorite-hunter

Someone should explain to them the difference between a meteorite and an 
asteroid.

Fun game nonetheless...

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA

P.S. I had the idea a while back to make a meteorite hunting game using 
Flash. It would be pretty simple and would be really funny to play. You 
could even have a choose your hunter section and choose between all the 
top meteorite hunters out there. ;) lol Anyone on-list know Flash well 
enough to do something like that.


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sat Sep 26 13:30:49 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:30:49 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ontario Bolide
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP55AA3947FA12F8DF526DACA4D80@phx.gbl>
References: <588246.94705.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<BLU0-SMTP55AA3947FA12F8DF526DACA4D80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4ABE4FC9.60305@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi Roman,

An amateur astronomer from the area saw it...

"..."It was far, far brighter than a full moon, and then disintegrated 
into red chunks and pieces within seconds," he said...."

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/701577

Hope this helps...

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA





Roman Jirasek wrote:
> Last night just after 9pm there were many reports from my friends
> and family of a huge fire ball seen over Milton and Campbellville
> Ontario travelling in a southerly direction. My wife even saw it
> through the window, and where was I? - in the can taking a leak!
>
> Someone else heard it was seen from Toronto to Niagara Falls.
> If that's the case, pieces might have landed south of the border.
>
> Any one else on the list seen it?
> Cheers,
>
> Roman Jirasek
> www.meteoritelabels.com
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



From fujmon at mac.com  Sat Sep 26 13:30:58 2009
From: fujmon at mac.com (Gary Fujihara)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 07:30:58 -1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-ebay auction ending soon
Message-ID: <306FC4DF-476E-4A34-B6AA-AE7A2E405CD0@mac.com>

Aloha listees,

I have some items up for auction on ebay ending TODAY Saturday 11 am  
PDT (less than an hour).  Up for grabs (at currently low bid levels)  
are:

NWA 869 - thumbprinted individuals
NWA x - unclassified oriented individuals
Sah 02500 - 210g individual
Chergach - 10.08g pyramid
Bassikounou - 5.05g perfect FC
Allende CV3 - 0.76g pea+paper
Olivine Bomb - 602g green olivine

http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

Preview for next week: more oriented stones, Wadi Melene, Chergach,  
Bassi, Gao, Allende, NWA CV3, Bilanga and more.  Have a great weekend  
folks!

Gary Fujihara
AstroDay Institute
105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720
(808) 640-9161, fujmon at mac.com
http://astroday.net



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sat Sep 26 14:29:00 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:29:00 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ontario Bolide +Video
In-Reply-To: <4ABE4FC9.60305@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <588246.94705.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<BLU0-SMTP55AA3947FA12F8DF526DACA4D80@phx.gbl>
	<4ABE4FC9.60305@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <4ABE5D6C.8030103@meteoritesusa.com>

And another...

With video "indirect glow"...

http://www.thenightskyguy.com/?p=1023

Regards,
Eric




Meteorites USA wrote:
> Hi Roman,
>
> An amateur astronomer from the area saw it...
>
> "..."It was far, far brighter than a full moon, and then disintegrated 
> into red chunks and pieces within seconds," he said...."
>
> http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/701577
>
> Hope this helps...
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
>
>
>
>
>
> Roman Jirasek wrote:
>> Last night just after 9pm there were many reports from my friends
>> and family of a huge fire ball seen over Milton and Campbellville
>> Ontario travelling in a southerly direction. My wife even saw it
>> through the window, and where was I? - in the can taking a leak!
>>
>> Someone else heard it was seen from Toronto to Niagara Falls.
>> If that's the case, pieces might have landed south of the border.
>>
>> Any one else on the list seen it?
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Roman Jirasek
>> www.meteoritelabels.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 26 14:29:26 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:29:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] meteorites forsale
Message-ID: <110138.31366.qm@web57805.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Good afternoon list.I completed my 3 months on my new job and now get to get the benefits plus a raise.I have a small collection of oriented pieces forsale.A 4.3 gram and a 4.9 gram sikohote-alin,plus a 12 gram and a 16 gram gao oriented forsale as a package.$350 will take them all home.I also have a 264 gram endcut of NWA 1794?with a mike casper label.This for $225.Both with free shipping.I,m getting ready to make room for my new LOS ANGELES martain part slice to come to chicago.Off list please.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 26 16:14:14 2009
From: carloselguapo1 at hotmail.com (Carl 's)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 13:14:14 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Universe, It Fell From Space
Message-ID: <COL108-W20C44F1ABCD574671FEB619BD80@phx.gbl>


Hi,

For those who missed History Channel's The Universe, It Fell From Space, I see someone posted the entire show in 5 parts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdLRHRiuJOQ

Carl
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290

From mlblood at cox.net  Sat Sep 26 17:52:30 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:52:30 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Question.....
In-Reply-To: <4ABE5D6C.8030103@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <C6E3DB2E.7A19%mlblood@cox.net>

Hi all,
        Am working like mad on the ASPECTS OF METEORITE
ORIENTATION book and am on the verge of completion. HOWEVER,
Someone sent me a nice JPG of an irregular shaped 9.3g Taza
(oriented - shaped like an elongated kidney) and I do not have
a name to credit (The great Computer Crash of Feb......)
        Whoever sent it to me, please contact me to confirm so I can
Give you credit for the photo.

On an entirely different note: Those interested in placing items
In the Tucson Meteorite Auction, please contact me NOW (you
Do not have to have all the info and/or photos at this time) to
Get the lowest consignment fees for the auction.

Thanks, all, Michael




From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sat Sep 26 18:04:54 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:04:54 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ontario Bolide
In-Reply-To: <4ABE4FC9.60305@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <588246.94705.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<BLU0-SMTP55AA3947FA12F8DF526DACA4D80@phx.gbl>
	<4ABE4FC9.60305@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <4ABE9006.9050304@meteoritesusa.com>

And this report...

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/09/26/11137496.html






Meteorites USA wrote:
> Hi Roman,
>
> An amateur astronomer from the area saw it...
>
> "..."It was far, far brighter than a full moon, and then disintegrated 
> into red chunks and pieces within seconds," he said...."
>
> http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/701577
>
> Hope this helps...
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
>
>
>
>
>
> Roman Jirasek wrote:
>> Last night just after 9pm there were many reports from my friends
>> and family of a huge fire ball seen over Milton and Campbellville
>> Ontario travelling in a southerly direction. My wife even saw it
>> through the window, and where was I? - in the can taking a leak!
>>
>> Someone else heard it was seen from Toronto to Niagara Falls.
>> If that's the case, pieces might have landed south of the border.
>>
>> Any one else on the list seen it?
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Roman Jirasek
>> www.meteoritelabels.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



From tett at rogers.com  Sat Sep 26 19:23:45 2009
From: tett at rogers.com (tett)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:23:45 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ontario Bolide
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP55AA3947FA12F8DF526DACA4D80@phx.gbl>
References: <588246.94705.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<BLU0-SMTP55AA3947FA12F8DF526DACA4D80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4ABEA281.8020809@rogers.com>

 Roman,

A buddy of mine stopped me today at the market and said he saw it 
driving north near Shelburne around 9pm.

Lets hope!

Cheers,

Mike

Roman Jirasek wrote:
> Last night just after 9pm there were many reports from my friends
> and family of a huge fire ball seen over Milton and Campbellville
> Ontario travelling in a southerly direction. My wife even saw it
> through the window, and where was I? - in the can taking a leak!
>
> Someone else heard it was seen from Toronto to Niagara Falls.
> If that's the case, pieces might have landed south of the border.
>
> Any one else on the list seen it?
> Cheers,
>
> Roman Jirasek
> www.meteoritelabels.com
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 26 19:45:08 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:45:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] ISO - Martian samples (small)
Message-ID: <280527.15640.qm@web46405.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Hi to all, hope everyone is having a good day, nothing but rain here in North Carolina today...

I am looking for some smaller Martian fragments, nothing too much over 100mg perhaps max weight of 150mg. I can use them as small a 6-10mg.

I need several of these and it needs to be a reasonable price.

A couple of these will be going to Caldwell County schools for the science departments (as with many schools very poor budgets but full of children who love to see meteorites) the remaining pieces will be used by me (sold) to help cover cost to me for this project. I am going to be providing about 1 gram of lunar (total) to 5-6 schools and would like to add a martian sample to go with it.
I will gladly include the person(s) who help with credit when I deliver the packages to the schools.

Again, this is coming out of my pocket, so as I said, I will be selling a few pieces to cover my costs, but the schools WILL get nice samples free of charge to them.

I can provide full information and contacts to verify my plans, or if you would like to contribute directly, I can provide the proper contact information.

I have the Lunar taken care of (the Lunar displays I make) I just need a few Martian samples to complete a planetary set.
If you can help, please contact me off list.

Thanks to all, 

Greg C.
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com



      


From leighannedelray at gmail.com  Sat Sep 26 20:58:33 2009
From: leighannedelray at gmail.com (Leigh Anne DelRay)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:58:33 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Shivalingams impactites?
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890909211753n12974542w2c418f40501f6dae@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BLU137-W477BBCD94BA726F8EF04BD6DE0@phx.gbl>
	<93aaac890909201132t7cf4e170x40707067c0d0c39f@mail.gmail.com>
	<5e97e2850909211545h611facc2ma1cd1a2dd76fee66@mail.gmail.com>
	<6F067BF9C2644D15BB9C8F2060DD75B4@ASUS>
	<93aaac890909211753n12974542w2c418f40501f6dae@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5e97e2850909261758r10eb58a3g13dc5e6c6c2ac710@mail.gmail.com>

"Villagers gather this unique Crypto-crystalline quartz (a form of
jasper with impurities) from shallow river beds. A natural formation,
geologists theorize that the iron oxide embedded in the stone was
impregnated in the river bed millions of years ago by a meteorite.   "

So this website says, that is all I know. Could easily be crap though.


http://www.souljourney.com/shivalinghams.htm

-LA



On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
> True. ?Quartz is a mineral, and can be deposited in any number of ways.
> In this case, based on gross physical appearance, I'd say the shiva
> lingams are likely made of a type of jasper, but I'm not qualified to
> tell. ?Given the fact that they're definitely more coarse-grained than
> other varieties like chalcedony and agate, I'm not even sure
> 'cryptocrystalline is the correct way to describe them - perhaps
> someone else who has a background in geology/mineralogy and is
> familiar with shiva lingams can comment here.
> The layering that can be seen in them is reminiscent of banded
> claystones; that's why I said sedimentary, but I could well be wrong.
> Jason
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Jerry Flaherty <grf2 at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Quartz ain't sedimentary
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Leigh Anne DelRay" <leighannedelray at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:45 PM
>> To: "Jason Utas" <meteoritekid at gmail.com>;
>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shivalingams impactites?
>>
>>> Crypto-crystalline quartz (I think)
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 11:32 AM, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello Mel,
>>>> Shiva Lingams are ordinary stones that have been polished by people
>>>> into their respective shapes to create the religiously symbolic stones
>>>> that people so seem to like. They are generally made of ordinary
>>>> rocks with nothing really special about them - unless you believe in
>>>> their religious/spiritual nature. I suppose you could have one made
>>>> out of impactite, or even a meteorite, but I have *never* seen one
>>>> made of said materials. They're typically made of that odd
>>>> dichromatic sedimentary stone (at least I'm fairly sure it's
>>>> sedimentary given the texture), but I'm not exactly sure as to what it
>>>> is.
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Melanie Matthews
>>>> <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Good morning list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was told once by the store owner of a local rock shop that
>>>>> shivalingams are the result of meteor impacts in India... think I recall her
>>>>> claim was backed by info from a rock/mineral book that she uses for
>>>>> reference. Is this true? I haven't found anything on google that mentions
>>>>> anything on that..
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> - Mel
>>>>>
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> New! Open Messenger faster on the MSN homepage
>>>>> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677405
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu  Sat Sep 26 22:00:10 2009
From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu (lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:00:10 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska film?
Message-ID: <6bf6bf57c0f365601cae38ac81a6378b.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>

Hello Everyone:

I am participating in a teacher workshop on impact cratering. I plan to
show the Sikhote-Alin Documentary from the early 50s, but I thought that
there was also one relating to Tunguska (not one of the recent "it was a
UFO" videos). Does one exist?

Thanks.

Larry



From sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net  Sat Sep 26 22:00:16 2009
From: sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net (Sterling K. Webb)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:00:16 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fewer large asteroids than as predicted
References: <588246.94705.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2D85AF887D2348BABA8AE96334C624D5@ATARIENGINE2>

And now, from the pessimists...

A fine theory and simulation. A shame it doesn't
correspond in any way to reality. The impact rate
on terrestrial planets starts out very high at the
beginning of the solar system, declines for half
a billion years then rises again in a final flurry of
accretion and clean-up, at 3.9 billion years ago.
The rate declines in a fairly uniform manner
thereafter, but about 600-to-400 million years
ago, it suddenly climbs to a level not seen since
3.4 billion years ago, and it is STILL at that
higher level today.

This is from the actual impact record, not having-
fun-with-your-computer-model science kit. The
data is from impact spherules in the lunar regolith
and the graph of the impact rates throughout
time can be found on page 660 of:
http://muller.lbl.gov/papers/lunar_impacts_Nemesis.pdf

More information here:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_nemesis08.htm

True, this researcher thinks it might be proof of
a big comet infall due to an undiscovered companion
small star to the Sun, but so what? It might be, but
the immediate mechanism is likely to be asteroidal
breakup.

The timing matches perfectly with the breakup of
the L-chondrite parent body, the largest asteroidal
breakup in the past few billion years or so. The
evidence and timing for that is presented here:
http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Mar04/fossilMeteorites.html

At about 480 million years ago (Ordovician times),
the meteorite fall rate on the Earth was 100 TIMES
GREATER than it is today, during the peak of that
breakup episode.

The history of the formation of the 50 or so asteroidal
families unambiguously identified does not match this
pretty little theory in the least. Reality is contingent,
accidental, and randomly chaotic, and NOT "well
described with a logarithmic decay law."



Sterling K. Webb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Verish" <bolidechaser at yahoo.com>
To: "Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral" 
<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 10:04 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Fewer large asteroids than as predicted


And now a word from our optimistic colleagues:

<http://arxiv.org/abs/0909.3875>

Dynamical erosion of the asteroid belt and implications for large 
impacts in the inner solar system

Authors: David A. Minton, Renu Malhotra
(Submitted on 21 Sep 2009)

Abstract:
The cumulative effects of weak resonant and secular perturbations by the 
major planets produce chaotic behavior of asteroids on long timescales. 
Dynamical chaos is the dominant loss mechanism for asteroids with 
diameters D > 10 km in the current asteroid belt. In a numerical 
analysis of the long term evolution of test particles in the main 
asteroid belt region, we find that the dynamical loss history of test 
particles from this region is well described with a logarithmic decay 
law. In our simulations the loss rate function that is established at t 
= 1 My persists with little deviation to at least t = 4 Gy.

Our study indicates that the asteroid belt region has experienced a 
significant amount of depletion due to this dynamical erosion - having 
lost as much as ~50% of the large asteroids - since 1 My after the 
establishment of the current dynamical structure of the asteroid belt. 
Because the dynamical depletion of asteroids from the main belt is 
approximately logarithmic, an equal amount of depletion occurred in the 
time interval 10-200 My as in 0.2-4 Gy, roughly ~30% of the current 
number of large asteroids in the main belt over each interval.

We find that asteroids escaping from the main belt due to dynamical 
chaos have an Earth impact probability of ~0.3%. Our model suggests that 
the rate of impacts from large asteroids has declined by a factor of 3 
over the last 3 Gy, and that the present-day impact flux of D > 10 km 
objects on the terrestrial planets is roughly an order of magnitude less 
than estimates currently in use in crater chronologies and impact hazard 
risk assessments.
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com  Sat Sep 26 22:46:39 2009
From: spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com (Melanie Matthews)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:46:39 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska film?
In-Reply-To: <6bf6bf57c0f365601cae38ac81a6378b.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>
References: <6bf6bf57c0f365601cae38ac81a6378b.squirrel@webmail.lpl.arizona.edu>
Message-ID: <BLU137-W26E3697C85CCB2E12855FED6D70@phx.gbl>


Hi, 
I got it off youtube: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=cb5cf652111d0c7161d4646c62b381cbe04e75f6e8ebb871

You might need VLC player or Adobe Flash player, to play it - both are free progs you can download and install. 

Regards 
-----------
Melanie 
IMCA: 2975
eBay: metmel2775
Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09
 
Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know what you're gonna get! 

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:00:10 -0700
> From: lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska film?
>
> Hello Everyone:
>
> I am participating in a teacher workshop on impact cratering. I plan to
> show the Sikhote-Alin Documentary from the early 50s, but I thought that
> there was also one relating to Tunguska (not one of the recent "it was a
> UFO" videos). Does one exist?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Larry
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Internet explorer 8 lets you browse the web faster.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655582

From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Sat Sep 26 23:31:15 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:31:15 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 27,
	2009
Message-ID: <cd0.4ba01e13.37f03683@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_27_2009.html 



From tricottetcoll at live.com  Sun Sep 27 01:30:40 2009
From: tricottetcoll at live.com (The Tricottet Collection)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 05:30:40 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] PDF on risk assessment of Tunguska-type events
Message-ID: <BLU117-W1391FD87E330F4DFC2C48FDDD70@phx.gbl>


Dear list members,

I wrote a report on risk assessment of Tunguska-type events for the company I work for.
I hope it can be of interest to some of you, here is the link:

http://www.rms.com/Publications/1908_Tunguska_Event.pdf

A peer-reviewed paper should follow soon.

ArnaudM
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web.  Try  Bing? now
http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try bing_1x1

From majbaermann at web.de  Sun Sep 27 04:29:47 2009
From: majbaermann at web.de (=?Windows-1252?Q?Matthias_B=E4rmann?=)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:29:47 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] PDF on risk assessment of Tunguska-type events
References: <BLU117-W1391FD87E330F4DFC2C48FDDD70@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BD3E9FEFED41410FB276A5198A254C37@thinkcentre>

Very interesting, Arnaud, thanks for sharing.

Wishing all of us a sunny and asteroid-free sunday, such as here in southern 
Germany,

Matthias

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "The Tricottet Collection" <tricottetcoll at live.com>
To: "MeteoriteList" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 7:30 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] PDF on risk assessment of Tunguska-type events



Dear list members,

I wrote a report on risk assessment of Tunguska-type events for the company 
I work for.
I hope it can be of interest to some of you, here is the link:

http://www.rms.com/Publications/1908_Tunguska_Event.pdf

A peer-reviewed paper should follow soon.

ArnaudM

_________________________________________________________________
Microsoft brings you a new way to search the web.  Try  Bing? now
http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try 
bing_1x1
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 



From cojack at tiscali.it  Sun Sep 27 09:34:10 2009
From: cojack at tiscali.it (Francesco Moser)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:34:10 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] lunar meteorite
Message-ID: <4F45DBBB53B144B184B2044972BA1526@fisso>

Hello!
I'm looking for the pictures of the 2 meteorite that was found on the Moon. 
Yesterday I try to find them for more than an hour, but nothing.

Could someone send them to me or give me a link?

The meteorite names are:
Bench Crater
Hadley Rille

The second one was just 3mg and was found into a thin section, isn't? So I 
think there aren't images of it.

Thanks a lot!


Regards!

<>X<>X<>X<>X<>
Francesco Moser
IMCA #1510 



From info at niger-meteorite-recon.de  Sun Sep 27 09:38:35 2009
From: info at niger-meteorite-recon.de (info at niger-meteorite-recon.de)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:38:35 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Outstanding 4.9 kg sculpted iron meteorite - AD
Message-ID: <980090923.330910.1254058716003.JavaMail.open-xchange@oxltgw14.schlund.de>


Ladies & gentlemen,
?
as I pointed out last week I currently have the rare pleasure to offer a small
number of outstanding meteorites from my personal collection. You'll find a
brief list and description in the following, the busy people may just click the
quick link to find all auctions:

http://shop.ebay.com/werffroenne/m.html?_dmd=1&_in_kw=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
?
Among those pieces?is a?flow lined?heavily oriented?Dhofar meteorite of 738 g.
The specimen is aconic shield with a stub apex. It shows countless flow lines
and impressively displays the ablation process of the atmospheric flight frozen
in time. The surface texture represents the moment as the crust cooled during
the transition from hot and bright to the cool and dark phase of the meteorite's
flight. You may have to wait a while before you see a similar piece offered.
Here is the auction link:
?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200384411749&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
?
For those focussing on large sculpted irons there is an?impressive and ?fully
regmaglypted 4.9 kg Sikhote Alin up for sale. The specimen's surface is dented
with large elongated regmaglypts, several regions show much smaller but deeper
regmaglypts. The?meteorite shows a plethora of melt features such as flow lines,
melt rims and rollover lips. It is heavily ablated and fully fusion crusted.
This is a true museum specimen.And the best is, this striking display piece is
still well below 50 Cents per gram. Folks, if I would not be selling this piece
I would instantly buy it.
?
I apologize for the bulky link:
?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200384713860&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D200384713860%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
?
Other?witnessed falls?up for sale include
?
a72 g eucrite with glossy fusion crust,
?
a 56 g Allende individual,
?
a 33g Benguerir,
?
a rare La Criolla,
?
a 73 g Juancheng with beautifual fusion texture,
?
a 62 g Kilabo (witnessed fall from Nigeria).
?
And there?is a 1 cm NASA type meteorite scale cube (I have to admit the latter
is not a "witnessed fall", at least not unless it happens to fall from?your
kitchen table).
?
Please find all auctions here:
?
http://shop.ebay.com/werffroenne/m.html?_dmd=1&_in_kw=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
?
Thank your for patience and your interest.
?
Svend
?
?
www.meteorite-recon.com


From mmurray at montrose.net  Sun Sep 27 09:49:48 2009
From: mmurray at montrose.net (Michael Murray)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 07:49:48 -0600
Subject: [meteorite-list] question on cleaning irons
Message-ID: <BE083C70-808C-48E5-8185-02EC135C732F@montrose.net>

I'd like to try cleaning a small suspect iron so that I can see what  
it looks like without all the rust and other buildup.  Anyone have  
experience with using an electrolysis bath on an iron to clean it up?  
If so, another question...Will it remove the black oxide?
Mike in CO


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sun Sep 27 10:03:55 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:03:55 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] Question.....
In-Reply-To: <C6E3DB2E.7A19%mlblood@cox.net>
References: <4ABE5D6C.8030103@meteoritesusa.com>
	<C6E3DB2E.7A19%mlblood@cox.net>
Message-ID: <e51421550909270703x36e2d15ex6367f3d8ddf5ee20@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Michael and List,

I am glad to hear that this book is being finished - my bookshelf is
always hungry for another meteorite book.  I can't wait to see all of
the photos of oriented specimens. :)

BTW - remember that oriented UNWA stone that I sent you some photos
of?   It is now available and open to fair offers.  I need to sell it
(and a couple of other things) - to rid my cabinet of some redundancy.
 If you (or anyone on the List) is interested, contact me for details.

Best regards and clear skies,

MikeG


On 9/26/09, Michael Blood <mlblood at cox.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>         Am working like mad on the ASPECTS OF METEORITE
> ORIENTATION book and am on the verge of completion. HOWEVER,
> Someone sent me a nice JPG of an irregular shaped 9.3g Taza
> (oriented - shaped like an elongated kidney) and I do not have
> a name to credit (The great Computer Crash of Feb......)
>         Whoever sent it to me, please contact me to confirm so I can
> Give you credit for the photo.
>
> On an entirely different note: Those interested in placing items
> In the Tucson Meteorite Auction, please contact me NOW (you
> Do not have to have all the info and/or photos at this time) to
> Get the lowest consignment fees for the auction.
>
> Thanks, all, Michael
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 27 11:30:17 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 08:30:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Acapulcoites
In-Reply-To: <5e97e2850909261758r10eb58a3g13dc5e6c6c2ac710@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <330445.80771.qm@web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Can someone familiar with testing Acapulcoites contact me off list please.
I have questions about this stone:
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/uNWA46gec2a.jpg

Thanks,

Greg C.




      


From stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 27 11:45:39 2009
From: stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com (steve arnold)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 08:45:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] freebies update/ odds and ends
Message-ID: <266570.86030.qm@web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hello list.All the freebies from the last session are on thier way out the door.Sorry for the delay.I have posted a few meteorites forsale lately.I am willing to take decent offers on them to sell.I also got 2 more freeies today.A 80 and 143 gram whole stones to giveaway.Please chime in because these are the only 2.A few of you are getting 3 stones,only because there were so many.I hope you like them.They are all very nice specimens.Have a great day and go bears.
?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!! 


From geoking at notkin.net  Sun Sep 27 11:52:49 2009
From: geoking at notkin.net (Notkin)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 08:52:49 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] "The Fallen Sky" Reading in Tucson Tomorrow +
	Odessa Episode
Message-ID: <88368BA5-2E50-4F5B-BACC-520C99A08A32@notkin.net>

Dear Listees:

I would like to invite those of you in southern Arizona to meet my  
friend Chris Cokinos and hear him read from his wonderful new book  
"The Fallen Sky: An Intimate History of Shooting Stars" tomorrow,  
Monday, here in Tucson.

Chris is a brilliant writer, an accomplished editor and professor and  
one of the cooler guys I know. The reading is sure to be entertaining  
and informative. I'll be there, along with some of my pals, and would  
warmly encourage anyone within driving distance to make the trip.

The event will be at the Steward Observatory on the U of A campus,  
tomorrow, September 28, at 7:30 pm and admission is free.

Details:

http://uanews.org/node/26869


My review of Chris' book for TucsonCitzen.com:

http://tucsoncitizen.com/lizard/2009/07/25/contemplating-mysteries-of-the-universe-in-the-fallen-sky/


Hope to see some of you there.


In other news: Steve and I are finally back home after filming several  
new episodes of "Meteorite Men." Thanks to those of you who posted  
news stories about our Odessa Crater adventure. What a treat it was to  
be allowed to film and hunt inside the actual crater! And Pete Shugar  
-- I'm sorry you don't live next to the strewnfield anymore. Would  
have been great to meet you in person, but I did enjoy seeing the  
photo you donated to the museum.

There is a small news piece about the show in today's "Arizona Daily  
Star":

http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/310602


And if you'd like to be kept in the loop about current "Meteorite Men"  
news please connect with us on Twitter:

http://twitter.com/meteoritemen



It is really nice to be back home in sunny Tucson after many, many  
days on location!


Best wishes to all,

Geoff N.

www.aerolite.org
www.meteoritemen.com
www.meteoriteblog.org




From nwa482 at comcast.net  Sun Sep 27 11:51:17 2009
From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:51:17 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD...  Time to get back to work
Message-ID: <244722240.7775241254066677700.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

After playing all summer, I find that I must get back to work.  So I have started listing on ebay again.  All items so far are buy it now listings with some of them accepting reasonable offers.  Noteable items are a complete Portales Valley Stone, nice Esquel slices, complete Millbillillie, Gibeon, Planetaries etc,  Link is below:

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com

I have a question that has puzzled me for some time.......  On a cheap item, $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it?  It is only $20- and not an auction where you would want to know where it ended or wanted to bid at the last minuite?  What is the logic behind cluttering your watched item list with this kind of cheap item?

Good luck to all as I have some exceptional items offered and plan on adding more in the next few days.

Jim Strope

http://www.catchafallingstar.com/


From countdeiro at earthlink.net  Sun Sep 27 11:59:53 2009
From: countdeiro at earthlink.net (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:59:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] question on cleaning irons
Message-ID: <18362239.1254067193290.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Mike in Co & List,
Good question Mike. I have a big ugly Nantan of about 2000 gr. that was covered in concretions and rust. I ended up high pressure sandblasting it and ended up with a very even grey patination. I then struck it with a hammer and it cleaved along natural lines. When I blasted these interior surfaces I got the same dark grey color. Interestingly, the sanding did not remove metal, and flow lines were revealed. Deciding that this abrasive removal was acceptable, I took a 600 gr. rusted Campo and tried stainles steel wire brushing with a hand held Dremel tool. This also resulted in an overall dark grey patination with all of the aerodynamic and melt features still present.

I would ask the List for a discusion on, not only your interst in electrolysis for removing non-meteoric material, but the wire brush technique also,

With regards to all,

Guido     

-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net>
>Sent: Sep 27, 2009 9:49 AM
>To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] question on cleaning irons
>
>I'd like to try cleaning a small suspect iron so that I can see what  
>it looks like without all the rust and other buildup.  Anyone have  
>experience with using an electrolysis bath on an iron to clean it up?  
>If so, another question...Will it remove the black oxide?
>Mike in CO
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From l.pizzimenti at tiscali.it  Sun Sep 27 12:16:39 2009
From: l.pizzimenti at tiscali.it (Pizzimenti Luigi)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:16:39 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 76
References: <mailman.23.1254067233.71539.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <ED85914A43FC4CEDB25E7EDA3611EBF5@luigi>


Mr. Mignan,
Thanks for your work,
I am very interested to: documents, pictures and 
videos on Sikhote Alin. You can publish the pdf on 
my web site?

Best Regards,
Luigi Pizzimenti
IMCA#1117
http://www.collectionspace.it/index.METEORITE.htm





----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
<meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 6:00 PM
Subject: Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 76


> Send Meteorite-list mailing list submissions to
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide 
> Web, visit
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or 
> body 'help' to
> meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> meteorite-list-owner at meteoritecentral.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so 
> it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Meteorite-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
> September 27, 2009
>      (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
>   2. PDF on risk assessment of Tunguska-type 
> events
>      (The Tricottet Collection)
>   3. Re: PDF on risk assessment of Tunguska-type 
> events
>      (Matthias B?rmann)
>   4. lunar meteorite (Francesco Moser)
>   5. Outstanding 4.9 kg sculpted iron 
> meteorite - AD
>      (info at niger-meteorite-recon.de)
>   6. question on cleaning irons (Michael Murray)
>   7. Re: Question..... (Galactic Stone & 
> Ironworks)
>   8. Acapulcoites (Greg Catterton)
>   9. freebies update/ odds and ends (steve 
> arnold)
>  10. "The Fallen Sky" Reading in Tucson Tomorrow 
> + Odessa Episode
>      (Notkin)
>  11. AD...  Time to get back to work (Jim 
> Strope)
>  12. Re: question on cleaning irons 
> (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:31:15 EDT
> From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space 
> Picture of the Day -
> September 27, 2009
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: <cd0.4ba01e13.37f03683 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_27_2009.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 05:30:40 +0000
> From: The Tricottet Collection 
> <tricottetcoll at live.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] PDF on risk assessment 
> of Tunguska-type
> events
> To: MeteoriteList 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: 
> <BLU117-W1391FD87E330F4DFC2C48FDDD70 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
>
> Dear list members,
>
> I wrote a report on risk assessment of 
> Tunguska-type events for the company I work for.
> I hope it can be of interest to some of you, 
> here is the link:
>
> http://www.rms.com/Publications/1908_Tunguska_Event.pdf
>
> A peer-reviewed paper should follow soon.
>
> ArnaudM
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Microsoft brings you a new way to search the 
> web.  Try  Bing? now
> http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try 
> bing_1x1
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:29:47 +0200
> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] PDF on risk 
> assessment of Tunguska-type
> events
> To: "The Tricottet Collection" 
> <tricottetcoll at live.com>,
> "MeteoriteList" 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: 
> <BD3E9FEFED41410FB276A5198A254C37 at thinkcentre>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; 
> charset="Windows-1252";
> reply-type=original
>
> Very interesting, Arnaud, thanks for sharing.
>
> Wishing all of us a sunny and asteroid-free 
> sunday, such as here in southern
> Germany,
>
> Matthias
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "The Tricottet Collection" 
> <tricottetcoll at live.com>
> To: "MeteoriteList" 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 7:30 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] PDF on risk assessment 
> of Tunguska-type events
>
>
>
> Dear list members,
>
> I wrote a report on risk assessment of 
> Tunguska-type events for the company
> I work for.
> I hope it can be of interest to some of you, 
> here is the link:
>
> http://www.rms.com/Publications/1908_Tunguska_Event.pdf
>
> A peer-reviewed paper should follow soon.
>
> ArnaudM
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Microsoft brings you a new way to search the 
> web.  Try  Bing? now
> http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try
> bing_1x1
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:34:10 +0200
> From: "Francesco Moser" <cojack at tiscali.it>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] lunar meteorite
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: 
> <4F45DBBB53B144B184B2044972BA1526 at fisso>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; 
> charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hello!
> I'm looking for the pictures of the 2 meteorite 
> that was found on the Moon.
> Yesterday I try to find them for more than an 
> hour, but nothing.
>
> Could someone send them to me or give me a link?
>
> The meteorite names are:
> Bench Crater
> Hadley Rille
>
> The second one was just 3mg and was found into a 
> thin section, isn't? So I
> think there aren't images of it.
>
> Thanks a lot!
>
>
> Regards!
>
> <>X<>X<>X<>X<>
> Francesco Moser
> IMCA #1510
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:38:35 +0200 (CEST)
> From: "info at niger-meteorite-recon.de" 
> <info at niger-meteorite-recon.de>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Outstanding 4.9 kg 
> sculpted iron meteorite -
> AD
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID:
> <980090923.330910.1254058716003.JavaMail.open-xchange at oxltgw14.schlund.de>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
> Ladies & gentlemen,
> ?
> as I pointed out last week I currently have the 
> rare pleasure to offer a small
> number of outstanding meteorites from my 
> personal collection. You'll find a
> brief list and description in the following, the 
> busy people may just click the
> quick link to find all auctions:
>
> http://shop.ebay.com/werffroenne/m.html?_dmd=1&_in_kw=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
> ?
> Among those pieces?is a?flow lined?heavily 
> oriented?Dhofar meteorite of 738 g.
> The specimen is aconic shield with a stub apex. 
> It shows countless flow lines
> and impressively displays the ablation process 
> of the atmospheric flight frozen
> in time. The surface texture represents the 
> moment as the crust cooled during
> the transition from hot and bright to the cool 
> and dark phase of the meteorite's
> flight. You may have to wait a while before you 
> see a similar piece offered.
> Here is the auction link:
> ?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200384411749&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
> ?
> For those focussing on large sculpted irons 
> there is an?impressive and ?fully
> regmaglypted 4.9 kg Sikhote Alin up for sale. 
> The specimen's surface is dented
> with large elongated regmaglypts, several 
> regions show much smaller but deeper
> regmaglypts. The?meteorite shows a plethora of 
> melt features such as flow lines,
> melt rims and rollover lips. It is heavily 
> ablated and fully fusion crusted.
> This is a true museum specimen.And the best is, 
> this striking display piece is
> still well below 50 Cents per gram. Folks, if I 
> would not be selling this piece
> I would instantly buy it.
> ?
> I apologize for the bulky link:
> ?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200384713860&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D200384713860%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
> ?
> Other?witnessed falls?up for sale include
> ?
> a72 g eucrite with glossy fusion crust,
> ?
> a 56 g Allende individual,
> ?
> a 33g Benguerir,
> ?
> a rare La Criolla,
> ?
> a 73 g Juancheng with beautifual fusion texture,
> ?
> a 62 g Kilabo (witnessed fall from Nigeria).
> ?
> And there?is a 1 cm NASA type meteorite scale 
> cube (I have to admit the latter
> is not a "witnessed fall", at least not unless 
> it happens to fall from?your
> kitchen table).
> ?
> Please find all auctions here:
> ?
> http://shop.ebay.com/werffroenne/m.html?_dmd=1&_in_kw=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
> ?
> Thank your for patience and your interest.
> ?
> Svend
> ?
> ?
> www.meteorite-recon.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 07:49:48 -0600
> From: Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] question on cleaning 
> irons
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: 
> <BE083C70-808C-48E5-8185-02EC135C732F at montrose.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; 
> format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I'd like to try cleaning a small suspect iron so 
> that I can see what
> it looks like without all the rust and other 
> buildup.  Anyone have
> experience with using an electrolysis bath on an 
> iron to clean it up?
> If so, another question...Will it remove the 
> black oxide?
> Mike in CO
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:03:55 -0400
> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" 
> <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question.....
> To: Michael Blood <mlblood at cox.net>
> Cc: Meteorite List 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID:
> <e51421550909270703x36e2d15ex6367f3d8ddf5ee20 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Michael and List,
>
> I am glad to hear that this book is being 
> finished - my bookshelf is
> always hungry for another meteorite book.  I 
> can't wait to see all of
> the photos of oriented specimens. :)
>
> BTW - remember that oriented UNWA stone that I 
> sent you some photos
> of?   It is now available and open to fair 
> offers.  I need to sell it
> (and a couple of other things) - to rid my 
> cabinet of some redundancy.
> If you (or anyone on the List) is interested, 
> contact me for details.
>
> Best regards and clear skies,
>
> MikeG
>
>
> On 9/26/09, Michael Blood <mlblood at cox.net> 
> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>         Am working like mad on the ASPECTS OF 
>> METEORITE
>> ORIENTATION book and am on the verge of 
>> completion. HOWEVER,
>> Someone sent me a nice JPG of an irregular 
>> shaped 9.3g Taza
>> (oriented - shaped like an elongated kidney) 
>> and I do not have
>> a name to credit (The great Computer Crash of 
>> Feb......)
>>         Whoever sent it to me, please contact 
>> me to confirm so I can
>> Give you credit for the photo.
>>
>> On an entirely different note: Those interested 
>> in placing items
>> In the Tucson Meteorite Auction, please contact 
>> me NOW (you
>> Do not have to have all the info and/or photos 
>> at this time) to
>> Get the lowest consignment fees for the 
>> auction.
>>
>> Thanks, all, Michael
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> -- 
> .........................................................
> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
> FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> MySpace - 
> http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
> Twitter - Twitter - 
> http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
> eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
> ..........................................................
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 08:30:17 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Greg Catterton 
> <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Acapulcoites
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: 
> <330445.80771.qm at web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Can someone familiar with testing Acapulcoites 
> contact me off list please.
> I have questions about this stone:
> http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/uNWA46gec2a.jpg
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg C.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 08:45:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: steve arnold <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] freebies update/ odds 
> and ends
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: 
> <266570.86030.qm at web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hello list.All the freebies from the last 
> session are on thier way out the door.Sorry for 
> the delay.I have posted a few meteorites forsale 
> lately.I am willing to take decent offers on 
> them to sell.I also got 2 more freeies today.A 
> 80 and 143 gram whole stones to giveaway.Please 
> chime in because these are the only 2.A few of 
> you are getting 3 stones,only because there were 
> so many.I hope you like them.They are all very 
> nice specimens.Have a great day and go bears.
> ?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 08:52:49 -0700
> From: Notkin <geoking at notkin.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] "The Fallen Sky" 
> Reading in Tucson Tomorrow
> + Odessa Episode
> To: Meteorite List 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: 
> <88368BA5-2E50-4F5B-BACC-520C99A08A32 at notkin.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; 
> format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Dear Listees:
>
> I would like to invite those of you in southern 
> Arizona to meet my
> friend Chris Cokinos and hear him read from his 
> wonderful new book
> "The Fallen Sky: An Intimate History of Shooting 
> Stars" tomorrow,
> Monday, here in Tucson.
>
> Chris is a brilliant writer, an accomplished 
> editor and professor and
> one of the cooler guys I know. The reading is 
> sure to be entertaining
> and informative. I'll be there, along with some 
> of my pals, and would
> warmly encourage anyone within driving distance 
> to make the trip.
>
> The event will be at the Steward Observatory on 
> the U of A campus,
> tomorrow, September 28, at 7:30 pm and admission 
> is free.
>
> Details:
>
> http://uanews.org/node/26869
>
>
> My review of Chris' book for TucsonCitzen.com:
>
> http://tucsoncitizen.com/lizard/2009/07/25/contemplating-mysteries-of-the-universe-in-the-fallen-sky/
>
>
> Hope to see some of you there.
>
>
> In other news: Steve and I are finally back home 
> after filming several
> new episodes of "Meteorite Men." Thanks to those 
> of you who posted
> news stories about our Odessa Crater adventure. 
> What a treat it was to
> be allowed to film and hunt inside the actual 
> crater! And Pete Shugar
> -- I'm sorry you don't live next to the 
> strewnfield anymore. Would
> have been great to meet you in person, but I did 
> enjoy seeing the
> photo you donated to the museum.
>
> There is a small news piece about the show in 
> today's "Arizona Daily
> Star":
>
> http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/310602
>
>
> And if you'd like to be kept in the loop about 
> current "Meteorite Men"
> news please connect with us on Twitter:
>
> http://twitter.com/meteoritemen
>
>
>
> It is really nice to be back home in sunny 
> Tucson after many, many
> days on location!
>
>
> Best wishes to all,
>
> Geoff N.
>
> www.aerolite.org
> www.meteoritemen.com
> www.meteoriteblog.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:51:17 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD...  Time to get 
> back to work
> To: Meteorite Central 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID:
> <244722240.7775241254066677700.JavaMail.root at sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> After playing all summer, I find that I must get 
> back to work.  So I have started listing on ebay 
> again.  All items so far are buy it now listings 
> with some of them accepting reasonable offers. 
> Noteable items are a complete Portales Valley 
> Stone, nice Esquel slices, complete 
> Millbillillie, Gibeon, Planetaries etc,  Link is 
> below:
>
> http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com
>
> I have a question that has puzzled me for some 
> time.......  On a cheap item, $20- buy it now, 
> why would anyone bother to watch it?  It is only 
> $20- and not an auction where you would want to 
> know where it ended or wanted to bid at the last 
> minuite?  What is the logic behind cluttering 
> your watched item list with this kind of cheap 
> item?
>
> Good luck to all as I have some exceptional 
> items offered and plan on adding more in the 
> next few days.
>
> Jim Strope
>
> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:59:53 -0400 (EDT)
> From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] question on 
> cleaning irons
> To: Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net>,
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID:
> <18362239.1254067193290.JavaMail.root at wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Mike in Co & List,
> Good question Mike. I have a big ugly Nantan of 
> about 2000 gr. that was covered in concretions 
> and rust. I ended up high pressure sandblasting 
> it and ended up with a very even grey 
> patination. I then struck it with a hammer and 
> it cleaved along natural lines. When I blasted 
> these interior surfaces I got the same dark grey 
> color. Interestingly, the sanding did not remove 
> metal, and flow lines were revealed. Deciding 
> that this abrasive removal was acceptable, I 
> took a 600 gr. rusted Campo and tried stainles 
> steel wire brushing with a hand held Dremel 
> tool. This also resulted in an overall dark grey 
> patination with all of the aerodynamic and melt 
> features still present.
>
> I would ask the List for a discusion on, not 
> only your interst in electrolysis for removing 
> non-meteoric material, but the wire brush 
> technique also,
>
> With regards to all,
>
> Guido
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net>
>>Sent: Sep 27, 2009 9:49 AM
>>To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>Subject: [meteorite-list] question on cleaning 
>>irons
>>
>>I'd like to try cleaning a small suspect iron so 
>>that I can see what
>>it looks like without all the rust and other 
>>buildup.  Anyone have
>>experience with using an electrolysis bath on an 
>>iron to clean it up?
>>If so, another question...Will it remove the 
>>black oxide?
>>Mike in CO
>>______________________________________________
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> End of Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 76
> **********************************************


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05:51:00




From l.pizzimenti at tiscali.it  Sun Sep 27 12:19:05 2009
From: l.pizzimenti at tiscali.it (Pizzimenti Luigi)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:19:05 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 76
References: <mailman.23.1254067233.71539.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <77511E67423245A5ABC4EB52101F27A0@luigi>

Errata corrige!!!
Tunguska


Luigi




----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
<meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 6:00 PM
Subject: Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 76


> Send Meteorite-list mailing list submissions to
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide 
> Web, visit
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or 
> body 'help' to
> meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> meteorite-list-owner at meteoritecentral.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so 
> it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Meteorite-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
> September 27, 2009
>      (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
>   2. PDF on risk assessment of Tunguska-type 
> events
>      (The Tricottet Collection)
>   3. Re: PDF on risk assessment of Tunguska-type 
> events
>      (Matthias B?rmann)
>   4. lunar meteorite (Francesco Moser)
>   5. Outstanding 4.9 kg sculpted iron 
> meteorite - AD
>      (info at niger-meteorite-recon.de)
>   6. question on cleaning irons (Michael Murray)
>   7. Re: Question..... (Galactic Stone & 
> Ironworks)
>   8. Acapulcoites (Greg Catterton)
>   9. freebies update/ odds and ends (steve 
> arnold)
>  10. "The Fallen Sky" Reading in Tucson Tomorrow 
> + Odessa Episode
>      (Notkin)
>  11. AD...  Time to get back to work (Jim 
> Strope)
>  12. Re: question on cleaning irons 
> (countdeiro at earthlink.net)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:31:15 EDT
> From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space 
> Picture of the Day -
> September 27, 2009
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: <cd0.4ba01e13.37f03683 at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_27_2009.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 05:30:40 +0000
> From: The Tricottet Collection 
> <tricottetcoll at live.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] PDF on risk assessment 
> of Tunguska-type
> events
> To: MeteoriteList 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: 
> <BLU117-W1391FD87E330F4DFC2C48FDDD70 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
>
> Dear list members,
>
> I wrote a report on risk assessment of 
> Tunguska-type events for the company I work for.
> I hope it can be of interest to some of you, 
> here is the link:
>
> http://www.rms.com/Publications/1908_Tunguska_Event.pdf
>
> A peer-reviewed paper should follow soon.
>
> ArnaudM
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Microsoft brings you a new way to search the 
> web.  Try  Bing? now
> http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try 
> bing_1x1
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:29:47 +0200
> From: Matthias B?rmann <majbaermann at web.de>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] PDF on risk 
> assessment of Tunguska-type
> events
> To: "The Tricottet Collection" 
> <tricottetcoll at live.com>,
> "MeteoriteList" 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: 
> <BD3E9FEFED41410FB276A5198A254C37 at thinkcentre>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; 
> charset="Windows-1252";
> reply-type=original
>
> Very interesting, Arnaud, thanks for sharing.
>
> Wishing all of us a sunny and asteroid-free 
> sunday, such as here in southern
> Germany,
>
> Matthias
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "The Tricottet Collection" 
> <tricottetcoll at live.com>
> To: "MeteoriteList" 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 7:30 AM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] PDF on risk assessment 
> of Tunguska-type events
>
>
>
> Dear list members,
>
> I wrote a report on risk assessment of 
> Tunguska-type events for the company
> I work for.
> I hope it can be of interest to some of you, 
> here is the link:
>
> http://www.rms.com/Publications/1908_Tunguska_Event.pdf
>
> A peer-reviewed paper should follow soon.
>
> ArnaudM
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Microsoft brings you a new way to search the 
> web.  Try  Bing? now
> http://www.bing.com?form=MFEHPG&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFEHPG_Core_tagline_try
> bing_1x1
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:34:10 +0200
> From: "Francesco Moser" <cojack at tiscali.it>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] lunar meteorite
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: 
> <4F45DBBB53B144B184B2044972BA1526 at fisso>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; 
> charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Hello!
> I'm looking for the pictures of the 2 meteorite 
> that was found on the Moon.
> Yesterday I try to find them for more than an 
> hour, but nothing.
>
> Could someone send them to me or give me a link?
>
> The meteorite names are:
> Bench Crater
> Hadley Rille
>
> The second one was just 3mg and was found into a 
> thin section, isn't? So I
> think there aren't images of it.
>
> Thanks a lot!
>
>
> Regards!
>
> <>X<>X<>X<>X<>
> Francesco Moser
> IMCA #1510
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:38:35 +0200 (CEST)
> From: "info at niger-meteorite-recon.de" 
> <info at niger-meteorite-recon.de>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Outstanding 4.9 kg 
> sculpted iron meteorite -
> AD
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID:
> <980090923.330910.1254058716003.JavaMail.open-xchange at oxltgw14.schlund.de>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>
> Ladies & gentlemen,
> ?
> as I pointed out last week I currently have the 
> rare pleasure to offer a small
> number of outstanding meteorites from my 
> personal collection. You'll find a
> brief list and description in the following, the 
> busy people may just click the
> quick link to find all auctions:
>
> http://shop.ebay.com/werffroenne/m.html?_dmd=1&_in_kw=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
> ?
> Among those pieces?is a?flow lined?heavily 
> oriented?Dhofar meteorite of 738 g.
> The specimen is aconic shield with a stub apex. 
> It shows countless flow lines
> and impressively displays the ablation process 
> of the atmospheric flight frozen
> in time. The surface texture represents the 
> moment as the crust cooled during
> the transition from hot and bright to the cool 
> and dark phase of the meteorite's
> flight. You may have to wait a while before you 
> see a similar piece offered.
> Here is the auction link:
> ?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200384411749&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
> ?
> For those focussing on large sculpted irons 
> there is an?impressive and ?fully
> regmaglypted 4.9 kg Sikhote Alin up for sale. 
> The specimen's surface is dented
> with large elongated regmaglypts, several 
> regions show much smaller but deeper
> regmaglypts. The?meteorite shows a plethora of 
> melt features such as flow lines,
> melt rims and rollover lips. It is heavily 
> ablated and fully fusion crusted.
> This is a true museum specimen.And the best is, 
> this striking display piece is
> still well below 50 Cents per gram. Folks, if I 
> would not be selling this piece
> I would instantly buy it.
> ?
> I apologize for the bulky link:
> ?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200384713860&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D200384713860%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1
> ?
> Other?witnessed falls?up for sale include
> ?
> a72 g eucrite with glossy fusion crust,
> ?
> a 56 g Allende individual,
> ?
> a 33g Benguerir,
> ?
> a rare La Criolla,
> ?
> a 73 g Juancheng with beautifual fusion texture,
> ?
> a 62 g Kilabo (witnessed fall from Nigeria).
> ?
> And there?is a 1 cm NASA type meteorite scale 
> cube (I have to admit the latter
> is not a "witnessed fall", at least not unless 
> it happens to fall from?your
> kitchen table).
> ?
> Please find all auctions here:
> ?
> http://shop.ebay.com/werffroenne/m.html?_dmd=1&_in_kw=1&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
> ?
> Thank your for patience and your interest.
> ?
> Svend
> ?
> ?
> www.meteorite-recon.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 07:49:48 -0600
> From: Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] question on cleaning 
> irons
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: 
> <BE083C70-808C-48E5-8185-02EC135C732F at montrose.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; 
> format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I'd like to try cleaning a small suspect iron so 
> that I can see what
> it looks like without all the rust and other 
> buildup.  Anyone have
> experience with using an electrolysis bath on an 
> iron to clean it up?
> If so, another question...Will it remove the 
> black oxide?
> Mike in CO
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 10:03:55 -0400
> From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" 
> <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question.....
> To: Michael Blood <mlblood at cox.net>
> Cc: Meteorite List 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID:
> <e51421550909270703x36e2d15ex6367f3d8ddf5ee20 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Michael and List,
>
> I am glad to hear that this book is being 
> finished - my bookshelf is
> always hungry for another meteorite book.  I 
> can't wait to see all of
> the photos of oriented specimens. :)
>
> BTW - remember that oriented UNWA stone that I 
> sent you some photos
> of?   It is now available and open to fair 
> offers.  I need to sell it
> (and a couple of other things) - to rid my 
> cabinet of some redundancy.
> If you (or anyone on the List) is interested, 
> contact me for details.
>
> Best regards and clear skies,
>
> MikeG
>
>
> On 9/26/09, Michael Blood <mlblood at cox.net> 
> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>         Am working like mad on the ASPECTS OF 
>> METEORITE
>> ORIENTATION book and am on the verge of 
>> completion. HOWEVER,
>> Someone sent me a nice JPG of an irregular 
>> shaped 9.3g Taza
>> (oriented - shaped like an elongated kidney) 
>> and I do not have
>> a name to credit (The great Computer Crash of 
>> Feb......)
>>         Whoever sent it to me, please contact 
>> me to confirm so I can
>> Give you credit for the photo.
>>
>> On an entirely different note: Those interested 
>> in placing items
>> In the Tucson Meteorite Auction, please contact 
>> me NOW (you
>> Do not have to have all the info and/or photos 
>> at this time) to
>> Get the lowest consignment fees for the 
>> auction.
>>
>> Thanks, all, Michael
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> -- 
> .........................................................
> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
> FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> MySpace - 
> http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
> Twitter - Twitter - 
> http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
> eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
> ..........................................................
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 08:30:17 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Greg Catterton 
> <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Acapulcoites
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: 
> <330445.80771.qm at web46412.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Can someone familiar with testing Acapulcoites 
> contact me off list please.
> I have questions about this stone:
> http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/uNWA46gec2a.jpg
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg C.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 08:45:39 -0700 (PDT)
> From: steve arnold <stevenarnold60120 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] freebies update/ odds 
> and ends
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: 
> <266570.86030.qm at web57807.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Hello list.All the freebies from the last 
> session are on thier way out the door.Sorry for 
> the delay.I have posted a few meteorites forsale 
> lately.I am willing to take decent offers on 
> them to sell.I also got 2 more freeies today.A 
> 80 and 143 gram whole stones to giveaway.Please 
> chime in because these are the only 2.A few of 
> you are getting 3 stones,only because there were 
> so many.I hope you like them.They are all very 
> nice specimens.Have a great day and go bears.
> ?Steve R. Arnold, Chicago!!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 08:52:49 -0700
> From: Notkin <geoking at notkin.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] "The Fallen Sky" 
> Reading in Tucson Tomorrow
> + Odessa Episode
> To: Meteorite List 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: 
> <88368BA5-2E50-4F5B-BACC-520C99A08A32 at notkin.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; 
> format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> Dear Listees:
>
> I would like to invite those of you in southern 
> Arizona to meet my
> friend Chris Cokinos and hear him read from his 
> wonderful new book
> "The Fallen Sky: An Intimate History of Shooting 
> Stars" tomorrow,
> Monday, here in Tucson.
>
> Chris is a brilliant writer, an accomplished 
> editor and professor and
> one of the cooler guys I know. The reading is 
> sure to be entertaining
> and informative. I'll be there, along with some 
> of my pals, and would
> warmly encourage anyone within driving distance 
> to make the trip.
>
> The event will be at the Steward Observatory on 
> the U of A campus,
> tomorrow, September 28, at 7:30 pm and admission 
> is free.
>
> Details:
>
> http://uanews.org/node/26869
>
>
> My review of Chris' book for TucsonCitzen.com:
>
> http://tucsoncitizen.com/lizard/2009/07/25/contemplating-mysteries-of-the-universe-in-the-fallen-sky/
>
>
> Hope to see some of you there.
>
>
> In other news: Steve and I are finally back home 
> after filming several
> new episodes of "Meteorite Men." Thanks to those 
> of you who posted
> news stories about our Odessa Crater adventure. 
> What a treat it was to
> be allowed to film and hunt inside the actual 
> crater! And Pete Shugar
> -- I'm sorry you don't live next to the 
> strewnfield anymore. Would
> have been great to meet you in person, but I did 
> enjoy seeing the
> photo you donated to the museum.
>
> There is a small news piece about the show in 
> today's "Arizona Daily
> Star":
>
> http://www.azstarnet.com/allheadlines/310602
>
>
> And if you'd like to be kept in the loop about 
> current "Meteorite Men"
> news please connect with us on Twitter:
>
> http://twitter.com/meteoritemen
>
>
>
> It is really nice to be back home in sunny 
> Tucson after many, many
> days on location!
>
>
> Best wishes to all,
>
> Geoff N.
>
> www.aerolite.org
> www.meteoritemen.com
> www.meteoriteblog.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:51:17 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD...  Time to get 
> back to work
> To: Meteorite Central 
> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID:
> <244722240.7775241254066677700.JavaMail.root at sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> After playing all summer, I find that I must get 
> back to work.  So I have started listing on ebay 
> again.  All items so far are buy it now listings 
> with some of them accepting reasonable offers. 
> Noteable items are a complete Portales Valley 
> Stone, nice Esquel slices, complete 
> Millbillillie, Gibeon, Planetaries etc,  Link is 
> below:
>
> http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com
>
> I have a question that has puzzled me for some 
> time.......  On a cheap item, $20- buy it now, 
> why would anyone bother to watch it?  It is only 
> $20- and not an auction where you would want to 
> know where it ended or wanted to bid at the last 
> minuite?  What is the logic behind cluttering 
> your watched item list with this kind of cheap 
> item?
>
> Good luck to all as I have some exceptional 
> items offered and plan on adding more in the 
> next few days.
>
> Jim Strope
>
> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:59:53 -0400 (EDT)
> From: countdeiro at earthlink.net
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] question on 
> cleaning irons
> To: Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net>,
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID:
> <18362239.1254067193290.JavaMail.root at wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Mike in Co & List,
> Good question Mike. I have a big ugly Nantan of 
> about 2000 gr. that was covered in concretions 
> and rust. I ended up high pressure sandblasting 
> it and ended up with a very even grey 
> patination. I then struck it with a hammer and 
> it cleaved along natural lines. When I blasted 
> these interior surfaces I got the same dark grey 
> color. Interestingly, the sanding did not remove 
> metal, and flow lines were revealed. Deciding 
> that this abrasive removal was acceptable, I 
> took a 600 gr. rusted Campo and tried stainles 
> steel wire brushing with a hand held Dremel 
> tool. This also resulted in an overall dark grey 
> patination with all of the aerodynamic and melt 
> features still present.
>
> I would ask the List for a discusion on, not 
> only your interst in electrolysis for removing 
> non-meteoric material, but the wire brush 
> technique also,
>
> With regards to all,
>
> Guido
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net>
>>Sent: Sep 27, 2009 9:49 AM
>>To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>Subject: [meteorite-list] question on cleaning 
>>irons
>>
>>I'd like to try cleaning a small suspect iron so 
>>that I can see what
>>it looks like without all the rust and other 
>>buildup.  Anyone have
>>experience with using an electrolysis bath on an 
>>iron to clean it up?
>>If so, another question...Will it remove the 
>>black oxide?
>>Mike in CO
>>______________________________________________
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> End of Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 76
> **********************************************


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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05:51:00




From mexicodoug at aim.com  Sun Sep 27 14:12:49 2009
From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:12:49 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD...  Time to get back to work
In-Reply-To: <244722240.7775241254066677700.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
References: <244722240.7775241254066677700.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <8CC0DB541776919-820C-15303@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com>

"I have a question that has puzzled me for some time....... On a cheap 
item, $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it? "

Hello Jim !

Maybe the IRS.

$20 is more money than 2/3 's of the current eBay prices in the 
collectibles category.

Maybe they debate between (grocery shopping and cooking a romantic home 
cooked steak dinner for two), or (some old rock or 40-kopeck (USD 
$0.01) postage stamp).... so they put it on a watch list so it doesn't 
get lost.

Or maybe long on bids and with a fixed perk budget. Losing other 
auctions, he would pounce on the $20 thingy.

Maybe she is 11 years old and $20 is her week's allowance and she is 
waiting for her "paycheck". Or ditto, retired, fixed income, unemployed.

Do you happen to have several of the same items for $20? Maybe one of 
your competitors thinks $10 has been the standard for whatever the item 
is, and he may be thinking, let's see how quickly Jim sells these at 
$20 !

My money is on the latter,

Kindest wishes,
Doug






-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
To: Meteorite Central <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:51 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work



After playing all summer, I find that I must get back to work. So I 
have
started listing on ebay again. All items so far are buy it now listings 
with
some of them accepting reasonable offers. Noteable items are a complete
Portales Valley Stone, nice Esquel slices, complete Millbillillie, 
Gibeon,
Planetaries etc, Link is below:

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com

I have a question that has puzzled me for some time....... On a cheap 
item,
$20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it? It is only $20- 
and not
an auction where you would want to know where it ended or wanted to bid 
at the
last minuite? What is the logic behind cluttering your watched item 
list with
this kind of cheap item?

Good luck to all as I have some exceptional items offered and plan on 
adding
more in the next few days.

Jim Strope

http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sun Sep 27 14:37:19 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:37:19 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
In-Reply-To: <8CC0DB541776919-820C-15303@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com>
References: <244722240.7775241254066677700.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<8CC0DB541776919-820C-15303@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550909271137u749e54d6q4f1bbdb3f5d67f1f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jim, Doug and List,

eBay is a fickle mistress.

I have heard one well-known dealer describe eBay as "a hell for
sellers and a heaven for buyers."

I've been selling collectibles on eBay for about 10 years - since the
days before PayPal (remember BillPoint?) and the behavior of other
eBay members has always confused me.  I try to make sense of the whims
of the market and just when I think I have it figured out, the bidders
(or the sellers) throw me a new curveball.

I concur with Doug's conclusions about watching a cheap BIN item.
There are many reasons behind this phenomena - some financial and some
that are quirky at best.

I have a cheap $10 USB Wi-Fi dongle on watch right now.  Why?  Well,
it's a little complicated, but here goes - I have a backburner project
right now that involves building a "Wok-Fi" parabolic amplifier to
boost my wireless internet reception.  I discovered this need for this
while staying at a rental beach cottage whose promised "high speed
internet connection" was slower than dialup and more sporadic than
Robert Downey Jr.  The project requires a few ingredients - a
parabolic dish (or facsimile there-of), a USB Wi-Fi dongle, and a USB
extension cable.  I searched the web to find a suitable dongle (hold
your jokes) and found this one on eBay.  I am not ready to buy it yet,
because I don't have the other parts rounded up yet.  My wife's
birthday (and our wedding anniversary) are both next week, so I am in
a cash pinch at the moment.  I put the dongle on watch, so I can go
back and easily find it in a couple of weeks when I am ready to
assemble the amplifier.  Why don't I just BIN because it's only $10?
Because, as sad as it sounds, $10 makes a difference to me right now -
money is that tight.

But, I do have to agree that if money is no object, then it makes
little sense to put a BIN item on a watch list.  Either use the BIN or
move on to something else.  But, who is to say what motivates each
watcher?

Best regards and clear skies,

MikeG






On 9/27/09, Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com> wrote:
> "I have a question that has puzzled me for some time....... On a cheap
> item, $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it? "
>
> Hello Jim !
>
> Maybe the IRS.
>
> $20 is more money than 2/3 's of the current eBay prices in the
> collectibles category.
>
> Maybe they debate between (grocery shopping and cooking a romantic home
> cooked steak dinner for two), or (some old rock or 40-kopeck (USD
> $0.01) postage stamp).... so they put it on a watch list so it doesn't
> get lost.
>
> Or maybe long on bids and with a fixed perk budget. Losing other
> auctions, he would pounce on the $20 thingy.
>
> Maybe she is 11 years old and $20 is her week's allowance and she is
> waiting for her "paycheck". Or ditto, retired, fixed income, unemployed.
>
> Do you happen to have several of the same items for $20? Maybe one of
> your competitors thinks $10 has been the standard for whatever the item
> is, and he may be thinking, let's see how quickly Jim sells these at
> $20 !
>
> My money is on the latter,
>
> Kindest wishes,
> Doug
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
> To: Meteorite Central <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:51 am
> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
>
>
>
> After playing all summer, I find that I must get back to work. So I
> have
> started listing on ebay again. All items so far are buy it now listings
> with
> some of them accepting reasonable offers. Noteable items are a complete
> Portales Valley Stone, nice Esquel slices, complete Millbillillie,
> Gibeon,
> Planetaries etc, Link is below:
>
> http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com
>
> I have a question that has puzzled me for some time....... On a cheap
> item,
> $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it? It is only $20-
> and not
> an auction where you would want to know where it ended or wanted to bid
> at the
> last minuite? What is the logic behind cluttering your watched item
> list with
> this kind of cheap item?
>
> Good luck to all as I have some exceptional items offered and plan on
> adding
> more in the next few days.
>
> Jim Strope
>
> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 27 14:47:53 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 11:47:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
In-Reply-To: <e51421550909271137u749e54d6q4f1bbdb3f5d67f1f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <417586.24972.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Watchers are funny. I have some items with up to 12 watchers, but no buyers.

Greg C.
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1




--- On Sun, 9/27/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
> To: "Mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, nwa482 at comcast.net
> Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:37 PM
> Hi Jim, Doug and List,
> 
> eBay is a fickle mistress.
> 
> I have heard one well-known dealer describe eBay as "a hell
> for
> sellers and a heaven for buyers."
> 
> I've been selling collectibles on eBay for about 10 years -
> since the
> days before PayPal (remember BillPoint?) and the behavior
> of other
> eBay members has always confused me.? I try to make
> sense of the whims
> of the market and just when I think I have it figured out,
> the bidders
> (or the sellers) throw me a new curveball.
> 
> I concur with Doug's conclusions about watching a cheap BIN
> item.
> There are many reasons behind this phenomena - some
> financial and some
> that are quirky at best.
> 
> I have a cheap $10 USB Wi-Fi dongle on watch right
> now.? Why?? Well,
> it's a little complicated, but here goes - I have a
> backburner project
> right now that involves building a "Wok-Fi" parabolic
> amplifier to
> boost my wireless internet reception.? I discovered
> this need for this
> while staying at a rental beach cottage whose promised
> "high speed
> internet connection" was slower than dialup and more
> sporadic than
> Robert Downey Jr.? The project requires a few
> ingredients - a
> parabolic dish (or facsimile there-of), a USB Wi-Fi dongle,
> and a USB
> extension cable.? I searched the web to find a
> suitable dongle (hold
> your jokes) and found this one on eBay.? I am not
> ready to buy it yet,
> because I don't have the other parts rounded up yet.?
> My wife's
> birthday (and our wedding anniversary) are both next week,
> so I am in
> a cash pinch at the moment.? I put the dongle on
> watch, so I can go
> back and easily find it in a couple of weeks when I am
> ready to
> assemble the amplifier.? Why don't I just BIN because
> it's only $10?
> Because, as sad as it sounds, $10 makes a difference to me
> right now -
> money is that tight.
> 
> But, I do have to agree that if money is no object, then it
> makes
> little sense to put a BIN item on a watch list.?
> Either use the BIN or
> move on to something else.? But, who is to say what
> motivates each
> watcher?
> 
> Best regards and clear skies,
> 
> MikeG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/27/09, Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
> wrote:
> > "I have a question that has puzzled me for some
> time....... On a cheap
> > item, $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to
> watch it? "
> >
> > Hello Jim !
> >
> > Maybe the IRS.
> >
> > $20 is more money than 2/3 's of the current eBay
> prices in the
> > collectibles category.
> >
> > Maybe they debate between (grocery shopping and
> cooking a romantic home
> > cooked steak dinner for two), or (some old rock or
> 40-kopeck (USD
> > $0.01) postage stamp).... so they put it on a watch
> list so it doesn't
> > get lost.
> >
> > Or maybe long on bids and with a fixed perk budget.
> Losing other
> > auctions, he would pounce on the $20 thingy.
> >
> > Maybe she is 11 years old and $20 is her week's
> allowance and she is
> > waiting for her "paycheck". Or ditto, retired, fixed
> income, unemployed.
> >
> > Do you happen to have several of the same items for
> $20? Maybe one of
> > your competitors thinks $10 has been the standard for
> whatever the item
> > is, and he may be thinking, let's see how quickly Jim
> sells these at
> > $20 !
> >
> > My money is on the latter,
> >
> > Kindest wishes,
> > Doug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
> > To: Meteorite Central <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:51 am
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to
> work
> >
> >
> >
> > After playing all summer, I find that I must get back
> to work. So I
> > have
> > started listing on ebay again. All items so far are
> buy it now listings
> > with
> > some of them accepting reasonable offers. Noteable
> items are a complete
> > Portales Valley Stone, nice Esquel slices, complete
> Millbillillie,
> > Gibeon,
> > Planetaries etc, Link is below:
> >
> > http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com
> >
> > I have a question that has puzzled me for some
> time....... On a cheap
> > item,
> > $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it?
> It is only $20-
> > and not
> > an auction where you would want to know where it ended
> or wanted to bid
> > at the
> > last minuite? What is the logic behind cluttering your
> watched item
> > list with
> > this kind of cheap item?
> >
> > Good luck to all as I have some exceptional items
> offered and plan on
> > adding
> > more in the next few days.
> >
> > Jim Strope
> >
> > http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> .........................................................
> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
> FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
> Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
> eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
> ..........................................................
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 


      


From rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com  Sun Sep 27 15:09:23 2009
From: rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com (Rob Wesel)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 12:09:23 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD -  Goodies Ending Today
Message-ID: <303672F59D24498B91BFB0D1C8DEB49F@windows9bb74fe>

Hello all

A baker's dozen of this and that ending today. Sulagiri, West, Wardwell 
Draw, and others

http://shop.ebay.com/nakhladog/m.html

Rob Wesel
www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
www.facebook.com/nakhladog
------------------
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971




From meteoritefinder at gmail.com  Sun Sep 27 15:18:52 2009
From: meteoritefinder at gmail.com (Mike Miller)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 12:18:52 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
In-Reply-To: <417586.24972.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
References: <e51421550909271137u749e54d6q4f1bbdb3f5d67f1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<417586.24972.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <468bf6050909271218x676d0c38q79f7c168b8a061ed@mail.gmail.com>

I have always thought that the item is being watched while the
potential buyer tries to talk his or her spouse into the purchase.

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Greg Catterton
<star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Watchers are funny. I have some items with up to 12 watchers, but no buyers.
>
> Greg C.
> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1
>
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
>> To: "Mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>
>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, nwa482 at comcast.net
>> Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:37 PM
>> Hi Jim, Doug and List,
>>
>> eBay is a fickle mistress.
>>
>> I have heard one well-known dealer describe eBay as "a hell
>> for
>> sellers and a heaven for buyers."
>>
>> I've been selling collectibles on eBay for about 10 years -
>> since the
>> days before PayPal (remember BillPoint?) and the behavior
>> of other
>> eBay members has always confused me.? I try to make
>> sense of the whims
>> of the market and just when I think I have it figured out,
>> the bidders
>> (or the sellers) throw me a new curveball.
>>
>> I concur with Doug's conclusions about watching a cheap BIN
>> item.
>> There are many reasons behind this phenomena - some
>> financial and some
>> that are quirky at best.
>>
>> I have a cheap $10 USB Wi-Fi dongle on watch right
>> now.? Why?? Well,
>> it's a little complicated, but here goes - I have a
>> backburner project
>> right now that involves building a "Wok-Fi" parabolic
>> amplifier to
>> boost my wireless internet reception.? I discovered
>> this need for this
>> while staying at a rental beach cottage whose promised
>> "high speed
>> internet connection" was slower than dialup and more
>> sporadic than
>> Robert Downey Jr.? The project requires a few
>> ingredients - a
>> parabolic dish (or facsimile there-of), a USB Wi-Fi dongle,
>> and a USB
>> extension cable.? I searched the web to find a
>> suitable dongle (hold
>> your jokes) and found this one on eBay.? I am not
>> ready to buy it yet,
>> because I don't have the other parts rounded up yet.
>> My wife's
>> birthday (and our wedding anniversary) are both next week,
>> so I am in
>> a cash pinch at the moment.? I put the dongle on
>> watch, so I can go
>> back and easily find it in a couple of weeks when I am
>> ready to
>> assemble the amplifier.? Why don't I just BIN because
>> it's only $10?
>> Because, as sad as it sounds, $10 makes a difference to me
>> right now -
>> money is that tight.
>>
>> But, I do have to agree that if money is no object, then it
>> makes
>> little sense to put a BIN item on a watch list.
>> Either use the BIN or
>> move on to something else.? But, who is to say what
>> motivates each
>> watcher?
>>
>> Best regards and clear skies,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/27/09, Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
>> wrote:
>> > "I have a question that has puzzled me for some
>> time....... On a cheap
>> > item, $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to
>> watch it? "
>> >
>> > Hello Jim !
>> >
>> > Maybe the IRS.
>> >
>> > $20 is more money than 2/3 's of the current eBay
>> prices in the
>> > collectibles category.
>> >
>> > Maybe they debate between (grocery shopping and
>> cooking a romantic home
>> > cooked steak dinner for two), or (some old rock or
>> 40-kopeck (USD
>> > $0.01) postage stamp).... so they put it on a watch
>> list so it doesn't
>> > get lost.
>> >
>> > Or maybe long on bids and with a fixed perk budget.
>> Losing other
>> > auctions, he would pounce on the $20 thingy.
>> >
>> > Maybe she is 11 years old and $20 is her week's
>> allowance and she is
>> > waiting for her "paycheck". Or ditto, retired, fixed
>> income, unemployed.
>> >
>> > Do you happen to have several of the same items for
>> $20? Maybe one of
>> > your competitors thinks $10 has been the standard for
>> whatever the item
>> > is, and he may be thinking, let's see how quickly Jim
>> sells these at
>> > $20 !
>> >
>> > My money is on the latter,
>> >
>> > Kindest wishes,
>> > Doug
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
>> > To: Meteorite Central <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> > Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:51 am
>> > Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to
>> work
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > After playing all summer, I find that I must get back
>> to work. So I
>> > have
>> > started listing on ebay again. All items so far are
>> buy it now listings
>> > with
>> > some of them accepting reasonable offers. Noteable
>> items are a complete
>> > Portales Valley Stone, nice Esquel slices, complete
>> Millbillillie,
>> > Gibeon,
>> > Planetaries etc, Link is below:
>> >
>> > http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com
>> >
>> > I have a question that has puzzled me for some
>> time....... On a cheap
>> > item,
>> > $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it?
>> It is only $20-
>> > and not
>> > an auction where you would want to know where it ended
>> or wanted to bid
>> > at the
>> > last minuite? What is the logic behind cluttering your
>> watched item
>> > list with
>> > this kind of cheap item?
>> >
>> > Good luck to all as I have some exceptional items
>> offered and plan on
>> > adding
>> > more in the next few days.
>> >
>> > Jim Strope
>> >
>> > http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________
>> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> > Meteorite-list mailing list
>> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> .........................................................
>> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
>> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
>> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
>> FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>> MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
>> Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
>> eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
>> ..........................................................
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>



-- 
Mike Miller 230 Greenway Dr. Kingman Az 86401
www.meteoritefinder.com
     928-753-6825


From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Sun Sep 27 16:33:41 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 13:33:41 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] question on cleaning irons
In-Reply-To: <18362239.1254067193290.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
References: <18362239.1254067193290.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <93aaac890909271333w1d8c692cvf167f528223abf2a@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Guido, All,
Regardless of how well you cleaned your Nantan, whatever you found
under the surface was not flow lines.  The material you removed from
the surface of your iron was a good portion of the exterior of the
meteorite itself; you were likely centimeters below the original
surface of the iron.  Some Campos still have fusion crust, though it
is very uncommon.  At least many of them haven't been corroded badly
enough to drastically alter their morphology.  Nantans have been so
weathered that there's not much of a trace of their original surface
shape remaining, to say nothing of fusion crust.
Regards,
Jason

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 8:59 AM,  <countdeiro at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Mike in Co & List,
> Good question Mike. I have a big ugly Nantan of about 2000 gr. that was covered in concretions and rust. I ended up high pressure sandblasting it and ended up with a very even grey patination. I then struck it with a hammer and it cleaved along natural lines. When I blasted these interior surfaces I got the same dark grey color. Interestingly, the sanding did not remove metal, and flow lines were revealed. Deciding that this abrasive removal was acceptable, I took a 600 gr. rusted Campo and tried stainles steel wire brushing with a hand held Dremel tool. This also resulted in an overall dark grey patination with all of the aerodynamic and melt features still present.
>
> I would ask the List for a discusion on, not only your interst in electrolysis for removing non-meteoric material, but the wire brush technique also,
>
> With regards to all,
>
> Guido
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net>
>>Sent: Sep 27, 2009 9:49 AM
>>To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>Subject: [meteorite-list] question on cleaning irons
>>
>>I'd like to try cleaning a small suspect iron so that I can see what
>>it looks like without all the rust and other buildup. ?Anyone have
>>experience with using an electrolysis bath on an iron to clean it up?
>>If so, another question...Will it remove the black oxide?
>>Mike in CO
>>______________________________________________
>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Sun Sep 27 16:55:42 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 16:55:42 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] question on cleaning irons
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890909271333w1d8c692cvf167f528223abf2a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18362239.1254067193290.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<93aaac890909271333w1d8c692cvf167f528223abf2a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550909271355y5a303774pd15a38a36085dab@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jason and List,

I concur with Jason here about flowlines on a Nantan.
Oxidation/weathering is a replacement process - any oxide "rind" that
is on the specimen is representative of lost mass and surface area.
Since flowlines reside in the outer millimeter or so of the crust, any
such flowlines on a Nantan (or similar iron) would have been
eradicated by mother nature long ago.  No amount of mechanical or
chemical cleaning will restore that lost mass.

But I do agree that a vigorous mechanical cleaning will yield pleasing
results with almost any ugly corroded iron. :)

Best regards and clear skies,

MikeG


On 9/27/09, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Guido, All,
> Regardless of how well you cleaned your Nantan, whatever you found
> under the surface was not flow lines.  The material you removed from
> the surface of your iron was a good portion of the exterior of the
> meteorite itself; you were likely centimeters below the original
> surface of the iron.  Some Campos still have fusion crust, though it
> is very uncommon.  At least many of them haven't been corroded badly
> enough to drastically alter their morphology.  Nantans have been so
> weathered that there's not much of a trace of their original surface
> shape remaining, to say nothing of fusion crust.
> Regards,
> Jason
>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 8:59 AM,  <countdeiro at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Mike in Co & List,
>> Good question Mike. I have a big ugly Nantan of about 2000 gr. that was
>> covered in concretions and rust. I ended up high pressure sandblasting it
>> and ended up with a very even grey patination. I then struck it with a
>> hammer and it cleaved along natural lines. When I blasted these interior
>> surfaces I got the same dark grey color. Interestingly, the sanding did
>> not remove metal, and flow lines were revealed. Deciding that this
>> abrasive removal was acceptable, I took a 600 gr. rusted Campo and tried
>> stainles steel wire brushing with a hand held Dremel tool. This also
>> resulted in an overall dark grey patination with all of the aerodynamic
>> and melt features still present.
>>
>> I would ask the List for a discusion on, not only your interst in
>> electrolysis for removing non-meteoric material, but the wire brush
>> technique also,
>>
>> With regards to all,
>>
>> Guido
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Michael Murray <mmurray at montrose.net>
>>>Sent: Sep 27, 2009 9:49 AM
>>>To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>Subject: [meteorite-list] question on cleaning irons
>>>
>>>I'd like to try cleaning a small suspect iron so that I can see what
>>>it looks like without all the rust and other buildup.  Anyone have
>>>experience with using an electrolysis bath on an iron to clean it up?
>>>If so, another question...Will it remove the black oxide?
>>>Mike in CO
>>>______________________________________________
>>>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sun Sep 27 16:51:30 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 13:51:30 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
In-Reply-To: <468bf6050909271218x676d0c38q79f7c168b8a061ed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e51421550909271137u749e54d6q4f1bbdb3f5d67f1f@mail.gmail.com>	<417586.24972.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<468bf6050909271218x676d0c38q79f7c168b8a061ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ABFD052.1030906@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi List,

Regarding watchers. They're worthless...

Not the person mind you, but the fact that they are nothing more than a 
number in the "My Ebay" section, they mean nothing to the seller and 
provide no benefit at all other than to let the seller know they aren't 
buying.

The only time a watcher becomes worth anything to the seller is when 
they buy. Did you know that a seller cannot contact a watcher? This is 
ok I guess, but it seems silly to me that Ebay does not allow sellers to 
contact watchers. There have been countless times I've had 10-20 
watchers on an item and would have loved to have the chance to contact 
any one of those members to offer them a deal or ask "WHY" they are not 
buying at that moment.

It's rather frustrating in my opinion and I liken it to a looky-loo 
walking into my brick and mortar store. Ebay basically says that people 
can come in, and look around and even place an item in their watch list, 
but you can't talk to them. Being able to talk to a potential customer 
is crucial and could add ultimately to Ebay's bottom line through final 
value fees through increased sales for sellers.

Ebay is supposed to be smart right? So why the hell don't they allow you 
to contact watchers? It's not about security... If Ebay allowed it, 
sellers "could" contact watchers anonymously without Ebay ever having to 
release a buyers contact information if they do it through Ebay's 
contact buyer form within the My Ebay section. No personal information 
is given out, and the buyer is given another opportunity to buy. Ebay 
gets the final value fee, sellers get the sale and buyers get a deal! 
Win, Win, Win all round!

I've been selling on Ebay for over 10 years. I've sold thousands upon 
thousands of items as have many sellers, and over the years I've noticed 
as other sellers can attest that Ebay has become more and more biased 
against sellers and give obvious favor to the buyer. So much so that 
Ebay is truly "Hell for sellers & a haven for buyers." Don't believe me? 
Try selling 25-100 items on Ebay and you'll see the fees are outrageous 
and the rules are ever tightening. The new rules that forbid sellers 
from being able to leave negative feedback for buyers, constantly 
increasing fees, and worse, the blatant conflict of interest of Ebay 
owning it's own payment gateway Paypal is unfair and idiotic and should 
be illegal. Not to mention forcing sellers who don't have their own 
merchant account to use Paypal for their ONLY payment method... Did you 
know that sellers are not allowed to accept Money Orders or Personal 
checks any more, period? Ebay claims this is for security and fraud 
prevention, but when you realize that they own Paypal, and by forcing 
all payments through Paypal they make 10's of millions of dollars per 
year because of this. Not to mention the increased payment processing 
fees to sellers! Sellers have no power over this other than to get their 
own merchant account (which we do have) but we're still not allowed to 
accept money orders or personal checks.

Anyway, that's enough of my Ebay rant, there's way more things that most 
buyers NEVER realize or know about from a sellers point of view but not 
really the subject of this forum.

Ebay is screwing themselves over, and eventually their will be a 
competitor that will start snagging their market share.

They are ripe for it...

Regards,
Eric





Mike Miller wrote:
> I have always thought that the item is being watched while the
> potential buyer tries to talk his or her spouse into the purchase.
>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Greg Catterton
> <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote:
>   
>> Watchers are funny. I have some items with up to 12 watchers, but no buyers.
>>
>> Greg C.
>> http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Sun, 9/27/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
>>> To: "Mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>
>>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, nwa482 at comcast.net
>>> Date: Sunday, September 27, 2009, 2:37 PM
>>> Hi Jim, Doug and List,
>>>
>>> eBay is a fickle mistress.
>>>
>>> I have heard one well-known dealer describe eBay as "a hell
>>> for
>>> sellers and a heaven for buyers."
>>>
>>> I've been selling collectibles on eBay for about 10 years -
>>> since the
>>> days before PayPal (remember BillPoint?) and the behavior
>>> of other
>>> eBay members has always confused me.  I try to make
>>> sense of the whims
>>> of the market and just when I think I have it figured out,
>>> the bidders
>>> (or the sellers) throw me a new curveball.
>>>
>>> I concur with Doug's conclusions about watching a cheap BIN
>>> item.
>>> There are many reasons behind this phenomena - some
>>> financial and some
>>> that are quirky at best.
>>>
>>> I have a cheap $10 USB Wi-Fi dongle on watch right
>>> now.  Why?  Well,
>>> it's a little complicated, but here goes - I have a
>>> backburner project
>>> right now that involves building a "Wok-Fi" parabolic
>>> amplifier to
>>> boost my wireless internet reception.  I discovered
>>> this need for this
>>> while staying at a rental beach cottage whose promised
>>> "high speed
>>> internet connection" was slower than dialup and more
>>> sporadic than
>>> Robert Downey Jr.  The project requires a few
>>> ingredients - a
>>> parabolic dish (or facsimile there-of), a USB Wi-Fi dongle,
>>> and a USB
>>> extension cable.  I searched the web to find a
>>> suitable dongle (hold
>>> your jokes) and found this one on eBay.  I am not
>>> ready to buy it yet,
>>> because I don't have the other parts rounded up yet.
>>> My wife's
>>> birthday (and our wedding anniversary) are both next week,
>>> so I am in
>>> a cash pinch at the moment.  I put the dongle on
>>> watch, so I can go
>>> back and easily find it in a couple of weeks when I am
>>> ready to
>>> assemble the amplifier.  Why don't I just BIN because
>>> it's only $10?
>>> Because, as sad as it sounds, $10 makes a difference to me
>>> right now -
>>> money is that tight.
>>>
>>> But, I do have to agree that if money is no object, then it
>>> makes
>>> little sense to put a BIN item on a watch list.
>>> Either use the BIN or
>>> move on to something else.  But, who is to say what
>>> motivates each
>>> watcher?
>>>
>>> Best regards and clear skies,
>>>
>>> MikeG
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/27/09, Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>       
>>>> "I have a question that has puzzled me for some
>>>>         
>>> time....... On a cheap
>>>       
>>>> item, $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to
>>>>         
>>> watch it? "
>>>       
>>>> Hello Jim !
>>>>
>>>> Maybe the IRS.
>>>>
>>>> $20 is more money than 2/3 's of the current eBay
>>>>         
>>> prices in the
>>>       
>>>> collectibles category.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe they debate between (grocery shopping and
>>>>         
>>> cooking a romantic home
>>>       
>>>> cooked steak dinner for two), or (some old rock or
>>>>         
>>> 40-kopeck (USD
>>>       
>>>> $0.01) postage stamp).... so they put it on a watch
>>>>         
>>> list so it doesn't
>>>       
>>>> get lost.
>>>>
>>>> Or maybe long on bids and with a fixed perk budget.
>>>>         
>>> Losing other
>>>       
>>>> auctions, he would pounce on the $20 thingy.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe she is 11 years old and $20 is her week's
>>>>         
>>> allowance and she is
>>>       
>>>> waiting for her "paycheck". Or ditto, retired, fixed
>>>>         
>>> income, unemployed.
>>>       
>>>> Do you happen to have several of the same items for
>>>>         
>>> $20? Maybe one of
>>>       
>>>> your competitors thinks $10 has been the standard for
>>>>         
>>> whatever the item
>>>       
>>>> is, and he may be thinking, let's see how quickly Jim
>>>>         
>>> sells these at
>>>       
>>>> $20 !
>>>>
>>>> My money is on the latter,
>>>>
>>>> Kindest wishes,
>>>> Doug
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
>>>> To: Meteorite Central <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>>> Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:51 am
>>>> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to
>>>>         
>>> work
>>>       
>>>>
>>>> After playing all summer, I find that I must get back
>>>>         
>>> to work. So I
>>>       
>>>> have
>>>> started listing on ebay again. All items so far are
>>>>         
>>> buy it now listings
>>>       
>>>> with
>>>> some of them accepting reasonable offers. Noteable
>>>>         
>>> items are a complete
>>>       
>>>> Portales Valley Stone, nice Esquel slices, complete
>>>>         
>>> Millbillillie,
>>>       
>>>> Gibeon,
>>>> Planetaries etc, Link is below:
>>>>
>>>> http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com
>>>>
>>>> I have a question that has puzzled me for some
>>>>         
>>> time....... On a cheap
>>>       
>>>> item,
>>>> $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it?
>>>>         
>>> It is only $20-
>>>       
>>>> and not
>>>> an auction where you would want to know where it ended
>>>>         
>>> or wanted to bid
>>>       
>>>> at the
>>>> last minuite? What is the logic behind cluttering your
>>>>         
>>> watched item
>>>       
>>>> list with
>>>> this kind of cheap item?
>>>>
>>>> Good luck to all as I have some exceptional items
>>>>         
>>> offered and plan on
>>>       
>>>> adding
>>>> more in the next few days.
>>>>
>>>> Jim Strope
>>>>
>>>> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> --
>>> .........................................................
>>> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
>>> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
>>> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
>>> FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>> MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
>>> Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
>>> eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
>>> ..........................................................
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>       
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   



From nightsky55 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 27 18:22:53 2009
From: nightsky55 at gmail.com (Bob King)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 17:22:53 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
In-Reply-To: <4ABFD052.1030906@meteoritesusa.com>
References: <e51421550909271137u749e54d6q4f1bbdb3f5d67f1f@mail.gmail.com>
	<417586.24972.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
	<468bf6050909271218x676d0c38q79f7c168b8a061ed@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ABFD052.1030906@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <99c1e91a0909271522o7498e7cas9a0a366748b6c428@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Eric,
If eBay let you contact watchers, they'd lose cash on all the "under
the table" dealings. I personally use the watch function to remind me
of items I might like to bid on. When I see one of my watched items go
too high for my wallet, I just delete it from the list. If it's still
in my range closer to auction close, I make a bid.
Bob

On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> Regarding watchers. They're worthless...
>
> Not the person mind you, but the fact that they are nothing more than a
> number in the "My Ebay" section, they mean nothing to the seller and provide
> no benefit at all other than to let the seller know they aren't buying.
>
> The only time a watcher becomes worth anything to the seller is when they
> buy. Did you know that a seller cannot contact a watcher? This is ok I
> guess, but it seems silly to me that Ebay does not allow sellers to contact
> watchers. There have been countless times I've had 10-20 watchers on an item
> and would have loved to have the chance to contact any one of those members
> to offer them a deal or ask "WHY" they are not buying at that moment.
>
> It's rather frustrating in my opinion and I liken it to a looky-loo walking
> into my brick and mortar store. Ebay basically says that people can come in,
> and look around and even place an item in their watch list, but you can't
> talk to them. Being able to talk to a potential customer is crucial and
> could add ultimately to Ebay's bottom line through final value fees through
> increased sales for sellers.
>
> Ebay is supposed to be smart right? So why the hell don't they allow you to
> contact watchers? It's not about security... If Ebay allowed it, sellers
> "could" contact watchers anonymously without Ebay ever having to release a
> buyers contact information if they do it through Ebay's contact buyer form
> within the My Ebay section. No personal information is given out, and the
> buyer is given another opportunity to buy. Ebay gets the final value fee,
> sellers get the sale and buyers get a deal! Win, Win, Win all round!
>
> I've been selling on Ebay for over 10 years. I've sold thousands upon
> thousands of items as have many sellers, and over the years I've noticed as
> other sellers can attest that Ebay has become more and more biased against
> sellers and give obvious favor to the buyer. So much so that Ebay is truly
> "Hell for sellers & a haven for buyers." Don't believe me? Try selling
> 25-100 items on Ebay and you'll see the fees are outrageous and the rules
> are ever tightening. The new rules that forbid sellers from being able to
> leave negative feedback for buyers, constantly increasing fees, and worse,
> the blatant conflict of interest of Ebay owning it's own payment gateway
> Paypal is unfair and idiotic and should be illegal. Not to mention forcing
> sellers who don't have their own merchant account to use Paypal for their
> ONLY payment method... Did you know that sellers are not allowed to accept
> Money Orders or Personal checks any more, period? Ebay claims this is for
> security and fraud prevention, but when you realize that they own Paypal,
> and by forcing all payments through Paypal they make 10's of millions of
> dollars per year because of this. Not to mention the increased payment
> processing fees to sellers! Sellers have no power over this other than to
> get their own merchant account (which we do have) but we're still not
> allowed to accept money orders or personal checks.
>
> Anyway, that's enough of my Ebay rant, there's way more things that most
> buyers NEVER realize or know about from a sellers point of view but not
> really the subject of this forum.
>
> Ebay is screwing themselves over, and eventually their will be a competitor
> that will start snagging their market share.
>
> They are ripe for it...
>
> Regards,
> Eric


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Sun Sep 27 19:22:56 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 16:22:56 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
In-Reply-To: <99c1e91a0909271522o7498e7cas9a0a366748b6c428@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e51421550909271137u749e54d6q4f1bbdb3f5d67f1f@mail.gmail.com>	<417586.24972.qm@web46410.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>	<468bf6050909271218x676d0c38q79f7c168b8a061ed@mail.gmail.com>	<4ABFD052.1030906@meteoritesusa.com>
	<99c1e91a0909271522o7498e7cas9a0a366748b6c428@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ABFF3D0.8040106@meteoritesusa.com>

No they wouldn't... Ebay has a second chance offer, Best offer, and 
other ways for buyers to make offers. If they use the same/modified 
system to allow sellers to offer, or request watcher to buy by offering 
the buyer a deal, it would be the same as a best offer deal and allow 
Ebay to track the sale. The only problem is Ebay is too stupid to figure 
that out, or too lazy to do it.

A little offtopic but a relevant example of Ebay's stupidity. They allow 
an $8-$10hr employee (customer service rep) the authority to suspend a 
Powerseller who may employ multiple employees and own a multi-million 
dollar company over a policy violation. I don't know about you, but I 
would not place a $10hr employee or a $20hr employee for that matter in 
charge of my million dollar company. Who would? Oh wait, ebay does that 
to sellers all the time. This un-balance is a perfect example of why 
Ebay won't allow thing like contacting watchers because they think they 
know better than the sellers who sell. They are a third party online 
sales venue and nothing more.

Hmmm... Under the table? Would you be implying that "Under the table" 
means "off eBay"? ;) Don't get me started on "Off eBay" sales...

This is in no reference to you personally Bob...

I love the way people think that if you sell items "Off eBay" you're 
doing something wrong or worse (they even imply it's illegal). Really 
read their selling outside ebay policy. The scare people into thinking 
off ebay sales are fraud and scams thereby making people have a false 
sense of trust in them.

Ebay is ONE sales OUTLET of many sales outlets businesses use to boost 
their online sales. I list items in many places online and offline. If I 
get a buyer for an item from one place (other than ebay) and that item 
just happens to be listed on eBay too, do you think I'm going to tell my 
buyer "Sorry, but I can't sell you that item because it's listed on 
eBay."? Hell no... I'm going to end my auction (if it doesn't have bids) 
or store item and sell the item to my buyer! If eBay wants to do 
something about it, well I can't say on-list what I would tell them, and 
believe me it would not be G rated. ;)

As for watchers... The only use being able to see how many watchers you 
have is to show that you have interesting auctions. Show me some real 
marketing information and real stats, don't tell me how many people are 
"thinking" about my offer without giving me a way to market direct to them.

Regards,
Eric

Bob King wrote:
> Hi Eric,
> If eBay let you contact watchers, they'd lose cash on all the "under
> the table" dealings. I personally use the watch function to remind me
> of items I might like to bid on. When I see one of my watched items go
> too high for my wallet, I just delete it from the list. If it's still
> in my range closer to auction close, I make a bid.
> Bob
>
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>   
>> Hi List,
>>
>> Regarding watchers. They're worthless...
>>
>> Not the person mind you, but the fact that they are nothing more than a
>> number in the "My Ebay" section, they mean nothing to the seller and provide
>> no benefit at all other than to let the seller know they aren't buying.
>>
>> The only time a watcher becomes worth anything to the seller is when they
>> buy. Did you know that a seller cannot contact a watcher? This is ok I
>> guess, but it seems silly to me that Ebay does not allow sellers to contact
>> watchers. There have been countless times I've had 10-20 watchers on an item
>> and would have loved to have the chance to contact any one of those members
>> to offer them a deal or ask "WHY" they are not buying at that moment.
>>
>> It's rather frustrating in my opinion and I liken it to a looky-loo walking
>> into my brick and mortar store. Ebay basically says that people can come in,
>> and look around and even place an item in their watch list, but you can't
>> talk to them. Being able to talk to a potential customer is crucial and
>> could add ultimately to Ebay's bottom line through final value fees through
>> increased sales for sellers.
>>
>> Ebay is supposed to be smart right? So why the hell don't they allow you to
>> contact watchers? It's not about security... If Ebay allowed it, sellers
>> "could" contact watchers anonymously without Ebay ever having to release a
>> buyers contact information if they do it through Ebay's contact buyer form
>> within the My Ebay section. No personal information is given out, and the
>> buyer is given another opportunity to buy. Ebay gets the final value fee,
>> sellers get the sale and buyers get a deal! Win, Win, Win all round!
>>
>> I've been selling on Ebay for over 10 years. I've sold thousands upon
>> thousands of items as have many sellers, and over the years I've noticed as
>> other sellers can attest that Ebay has become more and more biased against
>> sellers and give obvious favor to the buyer. So much so that Ebay is truly
>> "Hell for sellers & a haven for buyers." Don't believe me? Try selling
>> 25-100 items on Ebay and you'll see the fees are outrageous and the rules
>> are ever tightening. The new rules that forbid sellers from being able to
>> leave negative feedback for buyers, constantly increasing fees, and worse,
>> the blatant conflict of interest of Ebay owning it's own payment gateway
>> Paypal is unfair and idiotic and should be illegal. Not to mention forcing
>> sellers who don't have their own merchant account to use Paypal for their
>> ONLY payment method... Did you know that sellers are not allowed to accept
>> Money Orders or Personal checks any more, period? Ebay claims this is for
>> security and fraud prevention, but when you realize that they own Paypal,
>> and by forcing all payments through Paypal they make 10's of millions of
>> dollars per year because of this. Not to mention the increased payment
>> processing fees to sellers! Sellers have no power over this other than to
>> get their own merchant account (which we do have) but we're still not
>> allowed to accept money orders or personal checks.
>>
>> Anyway, that's enough of my Ebay rant, there's way more things that most
>> buyers NEVER realize or know about from a sellers point of view but not
>> really the subject of this forum.
>>
>> Ebay is screwing themselves over, and eventually their will be a competitor
>> that will start snagging their market share.
>>
>> They are ripe for it...
>>
>> Regards,
>> Eric
>>     
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>   



From mlblood at cox.net  Sun Sep 27 19:48:50 2009
From: mlblood at cox.net (Michael Blood)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 16:48:50 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
In-Reply-To: <4ABFF3D0.8040106@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <C6E547F2.7A6F%mlblood@cox.net>

Hi Eric and all,
        As long as no bid has been placed, it is entirely ethical to remove
An item from an auction. Once ANY bid has been placed, removing
that item is very much an illegal action and, more importantly, an
unethical action  (who would prosecute it as a crime given the eBay
venue?). In a live auction, the auctioneer is legally bound to continue
To the conclusion any auction item upon which a legitimate bid has
been placed. 
        Best wishes, Michael


On 9/27/09 4:22 PM, "Eric Wichman" <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:

> Ebay is ONE sales OUTLET of many sales outlets businesses use to boost
> their online sales. I list items in many places online and offline. If I
> get a buyer for an item from one place (other than ebay) and that item
> just happens to be listed on eBay too, do you think I'm going to tell my
> buyer "Sorry, but I can't sell you that item because it's listed on
> eBay."? Hell no... I'm going to end my auction (if it doesn't have bids)
> or store item and sell the item to my buyer! 




From star_wars_collector at yahoo.com  Sun Sep 27 19:58:02 2009
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com (Greg Catterton)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 16:58:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Ebay listings - 10% off
Message-ID: <497396.49838.qm@web46415.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I have some very nice meteorites listed for sale on ebay at good deals.

Due to the ever increasing fees of selling on ebay, I am trying to do more off ebay sales. 
If you see an item you want and are willing to buy it off ebay, I will give you 10% off the ebay price.

I save on ebay fees, and you get a better price. 

Visit my listings on ebay here:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZwanderingstarmeteoritesQQhtZ-1

Thanks for looking, Hope everyone had a good weekend!

Greg C.
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com



      


From gmhupe at htn.net  Sun Sep 27 22:28:18 2009
From: gmhupe at htn.net (Greg Hupe)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:28:18 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] eBWW - Watchers Welcome, Bidders Encouraged - AD
Message-ID: <8AC3F6798CC44EC7BAB98E046FB10F5B@Gregor>

eBWW - (eBay Bidder Watcher Warning),

Hello One and All, I have 14 excellent eBay auctions ending tomorrow 
(Monday, Sept. 28th), several still at just 99 cents and many 'Watchers', 
who I think, are "Watching" in order to snag or snipe great deals when they 
see them!

Lots of Planetary and other Achondrite Rarities can be had by "Watching' 
here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

Good Luck to All, whether you are an early bird bidder or a late wandering 
Winner!!

Best regards,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault






From SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com  Sun Sep 27 22:44:15 2009
From: SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:44:15 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - September 28,
	2009
Message-ID: <d44.547bd861.37f17cff@aol.com>

http://www.rocksfromspace.org/September_28_2009.html 




From baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov  Sun Sep 27 23:35:07 2009
From: baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 20:35:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: September 21-25, 2009
Message-ID: <200909280335.n8S3Z7HD020733@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>


MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
September 21-25, 2009

o Proctor Crater (Released 21 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090921a

o Proctor Crater (Released 22 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090922a

o Pityusa Patera Dunes (Released 23 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090923a

o Russell Crater (Released 24 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090924a

o Russell Crater (Released 25 September 2009)
  http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090925a


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 





From mexicodoug at aim.com  Mon Sep 28 01:41:25 2009
From: mexicodoug at aim.com (Mexicodoug)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:41:25 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to work)
In-Reply-To: <1588045665.7914471254095238104.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <8CC0E15720884CF-3A24-B8D4@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com>

"Or...... they are just saving up money from cashing in all their empty 
beer cans. Case in Point........ Sikhote-alin stamp Buy It Now for $20- 
and I have 9 of the left. It has 3 watchers: BTW the auction has had 
only 25 hits since I loaded it !"

Hi Jim

You're right: that is a case-in-point. But if Jughaid is saving 
aluminum cans to cash in, he's likely to be a way more decisive buyer 
than what you've described - the can collectors get my respects for 
being hard working and thanks for cleaning up the environment.

I would say with 99% certainty that these case-in-point "The Watchers" 
are your direct competitors on the stamps. I'd also say with 95% 
certainty that you already knew that ... and just posted to let them 
know they are ubiquitously annoying Taters. And with 75% certainty you 
could guess exactly who the young 'uns are !

The Sikhote-Alin stamps you are selling are actually really cool and 
the brochure that comes with them adds a lot of value IMO. But while 
browsing some of your other auctions, I think the exquisitely patterned 
Esquel slice among others is blinding us to the facts of life on eBay. 
So why even take the time to list minor items if other stuff you have 
is leagues above them - everyone has their needs and priorities ...

Rant: eBay is a cruel mutation of a classified ad, where eBay Inc. 
learned to be unethical and call it an "auction" so they can fool
 
people into taking a percent of the sale, rather than a simple 
insertion fee for screwing the seller (since when did newspapers worry 
about the final sale price - printing costs are the same).

In fact eBay is not an auction in the sense of Blood's "English 
Auction" at all, since there are no auctioneers doing any work or 
having any responsibility to Sellers, especially busting their butt 
promoting the larger items to earn their fees; An auctioneer for the 
Seller is typically under a consignment relationship - contradicting 
eBay's case. For those complaining about Watchers being useless to 
Sellers, check your basic assumptions. Watching is a tool for BUYERS, 
not Sellers. It is not meant to be especially useful to Sellers.

In a real auction, it may well be unethical to start the bidding and 
then pull the item. But in a classified ad, the Seller has no 
obligation to sell the item: no surprise - this is eBay, love it or 
leave it - the Seller actually has no obligation (bids or not: not 
something in anyone's interests to publicize) to sell and like the 
newspaper could care less what happens: eBay.

So actually the power of the Seller is the power to sell only when 
convenient, and the disadvantage of the Buyer is that eBay commits him 
to pay unless the Seller allows the contrary. If you look at eBay in 
these terms, the protections need to be structured around the buyer. 
Whatever your opinion,20it is wrong to confuse eBay with most common 
auctions just because they call them "auctions". During (live) "English 
auctions", the auction most of us assume when hearing of "an auction", 
there is no "sniping", and other eBay self-crafted academic auction 
crap, the auctioneer simply starts do I hear.... do I hear.... do I 
hear.... once ... twice .... sold cycles until he is satisfied everyone 
had plenty of time to bid and works for the benefit of the Seller.

Now I won't get too started on why government should regulate eBay's 
monopolistic and bloated fees just as they regulate pawn shops gouging 
and credit interest rates for consumer protection - it makes sense 
until eBay is forced to be broken up just like AT&T was: to everyone's 
benefit, it is too much power in the hands of two few billionaires 
suckling their cash cow on our backs for too long. What we need is a 
Linux version of eBay linking many independent auction sites in a 
Bit-torrent fashion ... where independent escrow companies have equal 
access to process buyer commitments. That would introduce the 
competition where it is needed and online selling fees will plummet in 
consumers favor and finish eBay as effectively as AOL died.

http://joshreads.com/images/08/12/i081223bgss.jpg
(meteorite impacts?)

Best wishes,
Doug

PS - Everyone could humor Jim by watching this auction 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200387668267 !

PPS - Mike Miller'
s point about "spousal" consent was hilariously true 
... (Loweezy could spend hours gossiping with Elviney: Has any woman on 
the list -or in the known universe- ever had her husband deny 
permission when she wanted to buy herself a meteorite?)








-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
To: Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:47 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work

Or......? they are just saving up money from cashing in all their empty 
beer cans.

Case in Point........? Sikhote-alin stamp Buy It Now for $20- and I 
have 9 of the left.? It has 3 watchers:? BTW the auction has had only 
25 hits since I loaded it !

?http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200387668267

Jim Strope
http://www.catchafallingstar.com/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>
To: nwa482 at comcast.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 11:12:49 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada 
Pacific
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD... ?Time to get back to work

"I have a question that has puzzled me for some time....... On a cheap
item, $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it? "

Hello Jim !

Maybe the IRS.

$20 is more money than 2/3 's of the current eBay prices in the
collectibles category.

Maybe they debate between (grocery=2
0shopping and cooking a romantic home
cooked steak dinner for two), or (some old rock or 40-kopeck (USD
$0.01) postage stamp).... so they put it on a watch list so it doesn't
get lost.

Or maybe long on bids and with a fixed perk budget. Losing other
auctions, he would pounce on the $20 thingy.

Maybe she is 11 years old and $20 is her week's allowance and she is
waiting for her "paycheck". Or ditto, retired, fixed income, unemployed.

Do you happen to have several of the same items for $20? Maybe one of
your competitors thinks $10 has been the standard for whatever the item
is, and he may be thinking, let's see how quickly Jim sells these at
$20 !

My money is on the latter,

Kindest wishes,
Doug






-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
To: Meteorite Central <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:51 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work



After playing all summer, I find that I must get back to work. So I
have
started listing on ebay again. All items so far are buy it now listings
with
some of them accepting reasonable offers. Noteable items are a complete
Portales Valley Stone, nice Esquel slices, complete Millbillillie,
Gibeon,
Planetaries etc, Link is below:

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com

I have a question that has puzzled me for some time....... On a cheap
it
em,
$20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it? It is only $20-
and not
an auction where you would want to know where it ended or wanted to bid
at the
last minuite? What is the logic behind cluttering your watched item
list with
this kind of cheap item?

Good luck to all as I have some exceptional items offered and plan on
adding
more in the next few days.

Jim Strope

http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list






From piper at xs4all.nl  Mon Sep 28 03:47:08 2009
From: piper at xs4all.nl (Piper R.W. Hollier)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:47:08 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] "flow lines" on weathered irons (was "question on
 cleaning irons")
In-Reply-To: <93aaac890909271333w1d8c692cvf167f528223abf2a@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <18362239.1254067193290.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<93aaac890909271333w1d8c692cvf167f528223abf2a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200909280749.n8S7nAqn046224@smtp-vbr14.xs4all.nl>

Hi Guido, Jason, Mike, and list,

At 22:33 27-09-09, Jason wrote:
>Regardless of how well you cleaned your Nantan, whatever you found
>under the surface was not flow lines.

It appears that the layers of taenite and kamacite do not always 
oxidize at the same rate at the surface of a buried iron. This would 
make sense intuitively, since the proportion of nickel is different. 
Just as nitol has a differential effect on taenite and kamacite in 
the lab, some conditions of soil chemistry might produce an analogous 
result in the strewn field, albeit much more slowly. What is 
sometimes left after a long period of weathering is a pattern of 
parallel grooves on the outer surface that might be (mis)interpreted 
as flow lines.

This is an effect that I first noticed on a thick slice of Toluca 
from Alain Carion's collection that was on display at a wonderful 
exhibition at the Ecole des Mines in Paris in 1998. The 
correspondence between the shallow ridges on the oxidized edge of the 
slice and the Widmanstaetten pattern of the cut surface was rather obvious.

There might be something about the specific soil chemistry at the 
site that could make this effect more pronounced at some localities 
(e.g. Nantan or Toluca) by enhancing the difference in oxidation rate.

Piper



From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Mon Sep 28 04:03:47 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:03:47 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
In-Reply-To: <C6E547F2.7A6F%mlblood@cox.net>
References: <C6E547F2.7A6F%mlblood@cox.net>
Message-ID: <4AC06DE3.5090300@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi Michael,

Agreed... Though I don't think I have to say some people tend to blur 
the line and confuse and extend the policy to include "any" item listed 
rather than simply applying the rule to an item that has bids for which 
it was originally designed. Obviously ending an item which has bids is 
unethical "IF" it's solely to resell the item somewhere else or to 
garner a higher price. There is however, one valid reason I can think of 
to end an auction "after" it has bids and that's if the item being sold 
somehow gets destroyed or stolen before the auction ends. Of course the 
seller then has the obligation to contact the high bidder (before ending 
the item) and let them know about the circumstances and offer a 
solution. I believe the seller also has the obligation to provide a 
reasonable replacement, or offer of credit or discount on another like 
item to make it fair for the buyer. If the buyer wants to purchase the 
piece in a broken state then that's their prerogative, and they should 
realize that just because a seller ends an item does not mean that 
seller is doing bad things. People are becoming way too paranoid in 
suspecting that many honest sellers are a fraudsters. Ebay is 
propagating this hysteria by scaring buyers into thinking it's not safe 
to buy off their site.

Just my opinion...

Regards,
Eric



Michael Blood wrote:
> Hi Eric and all,
>         As long as no bid has been placed, it is entirely ethical to remove
> An item from an auction. Once ANY bid has been placed, removing
> that item is very much an illegal action and, more importantly, an
> unethical action  (who would prosecute it as a crime given the eBay
> venue?). In a live auction, the auctioneer is legally bound to continue
> To the conclusion any auction item upon which a legitimate bid has
> been placed. 
>         Best wishes, Michael
>
>
> On 9/27/09 4:22 PM, "Eric Wichman" <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> Ebay is ONE sales OUTLET of many sales outlets businesses use to boost
>> their online sales. I list items in many places online and offline. If I
>> get a buyer for an item from one place (other than ebay) and that item
>> just happens to be listed on eBay too, do you think I'm going to tell my
>> buyer "Sorry, but I can't sell you that item because it's listed on
>> eBay."? Hell no... I'm going to end my auction (if it doesn't have bids)
>> or store item and sell the item to my buyer! 
>>     
>
>
>
>   



From meteoritekid at gmail.com  Mon Sep 28 04:45:44 2009
From: meteoritekid at gmail.com (Jason Utas)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:45:44 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] "flow lines" on weathered irons (was "question
	on cleaning irons")
In-Reply-To: <200909280749.n8S7nAqn046224@smtp-vbr14.xs4all.nl>
References: <18362239.1254067193290.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
	<93aaac890909271333w1d8c692cvf167f528223abf2a@mail.gmail.com>
	<200909280749.n8S7nAqn046224@smtp-vbr14.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <93aaac890909280145o334d0d2cndd776eee9e5ac774@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Piper,
Of course - hence the differential weathering rates of Campos ("old"
versus "new"), to name one of many examples.
Perhaps the best example of such weathering can be seen on irons from
Gibeon.  I unfortunately don't have a copy of Buchwald here, but if
anyone does have access to the second volume, if they could flip
through the Gibeon section, they would find a photograph of a
beautiful mass of Gibeon (I forget the name of the mass) on display in
a museum in Germany.  It displays beautiful fusion crust and
smooth-edged, shallow regmaglypts - it looks as fresh as many Sikhotes
on the market today.  Compare it to many of the larger Gibeons on ebay
today and you'll see little-to-no resemblance.  If anyone out there
can scan a picture of said page, I'd be much obliged.  It really is a
good example.
There are, however, a few common irons which I would never expect to
have fusion crust: Canyon Diablo, Toluca, Odessa, and Nantan, to name
a few.  I've seen hundreds, if not thousands of examples of each, and
I have never seen a single one of any of them that came close to being
"fresh" enough to retain a trace of fusion crust.
Nantan is one of the most corroded and least stable iron meteorites I
have ever known, though Dronino's turning out to be about as bad.
People need to learn more in order to clear up the misconception that
all meteorites show signs of a hot, violent entry through the
atmosphere; I see NWA's on ebay all the time that are nothing but old
weathered fragments coated with desert varnish.  Check out this
seller:

http://myworld.ebay.com/eegooblago/

Almost all of his stones are covered in a 'glossy fusion crust.'  Oh
wait - those are just desert varnished fragments that have been
weathered to hell.  Most of the melt features the seller notes are due
to sandblasting and corrosion, and s/he goes so far as to say that the
cracks in his stones formed when they hit the ground!  Anyone remotely
familiar with meteorites and weathering processes knows that over
thousands of years, meteorites fracture and break apart, in a manner
completely unrelated to their having impacted the Earth.
This seems like a very similar misconception; Guido even notes finding
flow lines on the inside of the meteorite, having broken it open.
There's no way there would have been any flow lines on the surface of
the iron, never mind the inside of it.  It simply isn't possible.
Regards,
Jason

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:47 AM, Piper R.W. Hollier <piper at xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Hi Guido, Jason, Mike, and list,
>
> At 22:33 27-09-09, Jason wrote:
>>
>> Regardless of how well you cleaned your Nantan, whatever you found
>> under the surface was not flow lines.
>
> It appears that the layers of taenite and kamacite do not always oxidize at
> the same rate at the surface of a buried iron. This would make sense
> intuitively, since the proportion of nickel is different. Just as nitol has
> a differential effect on taenite and kamacite in the lab, some conditions of
> soil chemistry might produce an analogous result in the strewn field, albeit
> much more slowly. What is sometimes left after a long period of weathering
> is a pattern of parallel grooves on the outer surface that might be
> (mis)interpreted as flow lines.
>
> This is an effect that I first noticed on a thick slice of Toluca from Alain
> Carion's collection that was on display at a wonderful exhibition at the
> Ecole des Mines in Paris in 1998. The correspondence between the shallow
> ridges on the oxidized edge of the slice and the Widmanstaetten pattern of
> the cut surface was rather obvious.
>
> There might be something about the specific soil chemistry at the site that
> could make this effect more pronounced at some localities (e.g. Nantan or
> Toluca) by enhancing the difference in oxidation rate.
>
> Piper
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


From eric at meteoritesusa.com  Mon Sep 28 05:01:03 2009
From: eric at meteoritesusa.com (Meteorites USA)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:01:03 -0700
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to work)
In-Reply-To: <8CC0E15720884CF-3A24-B8D4@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC0E15720884CF-3A24-B8D4@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4AC07B4F.8000405@meteoritesusa.com>

Hi Doug, List,

Respectfully I disagree with the statement, though only somewhat...

"...For those complaining about Watchers being useless to Sellers, check 
your basic assumptions. Watching is a tool for BUYERS, not Sellers. It 
is not meant to be especially useful to Sellers..."

Not really what I meant... I suspect "watching" (when referring to 
sellers) doesn't benefit buyers at all. What I'm referring to is not the 
buyers "My Ebay" section. I'm referring to the number of watchers that 
is displayed in the sellers "My Ebay" section. The buyer cannot see this 
number, though they need not see it at all to watch an item. I 
understand the reason behind watchers watching and I use it to watch my 
competition too as do most sellers. Please explain to me though, what 
use the number of watchers is to the seller other than to show how many 
people are "thinking" about buying or watching their competition without 
also giving the seller the opportunity to contact the watcher with an offer.

I agree with you 100% on your description of the proverbial monopolistic 
mass that is Ebay. There does need to be a free, or nearly free system 
created to compete with Ebay. They are ripe for a competitor.

Craigslist was the closest and still does tear away at some of Ebay's 
market share. But wait, doesn't Ebay now own 25% of Craigslist? Yup! 
They sure do... Some unknown shareholder of Craigslist sold Ebay a lions 
share of the company. What better way to defeat your enemy than to know 
your enemy from the inside out. Then within a short period of time Ebay 
creates Kijiji... A free worldwide classifieds ads website. Imagine 
that... ;) lol

Hmmm... Ebay also owns it's own payment getway company Paypal, they own 
25% of their biggest online competitor, and they force sellers to use 
their own gateway thereby increasing sellers costs! Don't people see a 
problem with this?

Buyers should be pissed about this too. Why? Because of what happens 
when sellers incur more costs. They raise prices to compensate! This in 
turn not only allows Ebay to earn even more from final value fees, but 
it cost the buyers money too. Though in an indirect way.

How much? Paypal charges from 1.9% to 2.9% processing fee plus a .30 
charge per transaction. We have hundreds of transactions in a busy month 
and though we are Powersellers there are many people who sell much more 
than us. Some Ebay sellers have 100's of thousands of feedback and 
transactions, most of which go through Paypal now that Ebay requires all 
sellers to accept Paypal.

2.9% doesn't sound like much does it? Let's put that number into 
perspective.

Ebay processes millions of transactions per day and receives millions of 
payments through their Paypal service each day.

Even if there's only $1 Million dollars worth of transactions per day 
(there really is much more that that), that equates to $29,000 in fees 
that SELLERS have to pay each day.

Paypal fees collected by total sales per day:
(not counting the .30 per transaction charge)

$2 Million in transactions = $58K fees
$3 Million in transactions = $87K fees
$4 Million in transactions = $116K fees
$5 Million in transactions = $145K fees
PER DAY!!!

$2 Million in transactions = $58K fees x 365 Days = $21,170,000.00 yr
$3 Million in transactions = $87K fees x 365 Days = $31,755,000.00 yr
$4 Million in transactions = $116K fees x 365 Days = $42,340,000.00 yr
$5 Million in transactions = $145K fees x 365 Days = $52,925,000.00 yr

I don't know about you, but I think that's a whole lot of money! And 
buyers are paying for it through higher prices charged by sellers!

Are we seeing a pattern here? Ebay is perhaps the biggest monopoly 
online right now, and the only thing that will change it from becoming 
bigger is to create something they can't compete with. Craigslist had 
it, then they sold 25% of their company (which by the way only employs 
about 30 people or so) for an undisclosed amount of money and keeps the 
shareholder secret...

How this email turned into an Ebay rant I don't really know, but buyers, 
you should really think twice before buying on Ebay, considering Ebay is 
raising prices indirectly and you're paying for it! Their practices are 
so blatantly unethical it's ridiculous but we forget about it because of 
the great deals and excitement of the auction atmosphere.

You know what, there are a lot better deals on Craigslist! Why do you 
think Ebay bought 25% of the company? You think it's just because they 
like their business, or they want to be friends? Ebay is run by sharks, 
sharks that eat money for breakfast. They drink melted gold from 
platinum goblets and smile their diamond smiles all the while dreaming 
up new ways to drain sellers of their hard earned money through endless 
fee increases and unfair and unethical business practices. Buyers you 
pay for it too whether you realize it or not.

Regards,
Eric




Mexicodoug wrote:
> "Or...... they are just saving up money from cashing in all their 
> empty beer cans. Case in Point........ Sikhote-alin stamp Buy It Now 
> for $20- and I have 9 of the left. It has 3 watchers: BTW the auction 
> has had only 25 hits since I loaded it !"
>
> Hi Jim
>
> You're right: that is a case-in-point. But if Jughaid is saving 
> aluminum cans to cash in, he's likely to be a way more decisive buyer 
> than what you've described - the can collectors get my respects for 
> being hard working and thanks for cleaning up the environment.
>
> I would say with 99% certainty that these case-in-point "The Watchers" 
> are your direct competitors on the stamps. I'd also say with 95% 
> certainty that you already knew that ... and just posted to let them 
> know they are ubiquitously annoying Taters. And with 75% certainty you 
> could guess exactly who the young 'uns are !
>
> The Sikhote-Alin stamps you are selling are actually really cool and 
> the brochure that comes with them adds a lot of value IMO. But while 
> browsing some of your other auctions, I think the exquisitely 
> patterned Esquel slice among others is blinding us to the facts of 
> life on eBay. So why even take the time to list minor items if other 
> stuff you have is leagues above them - everyone has their needs and 
> priorities ...
>
> Rant: eBay is a cruel mutation of a classified ad, where eBay Inc. 
> learned to be unethical and call it an "auction" so they can fool
>
> people into taking a percent of the sale, rather than a simple 
> insertion fee for screwing the seller (since when did newspapers worry 
> about the final sale price - printing costs are the same).
>
> In fact eBay is not an auction in the sense of Blood's "English 
> Auction" at all, since there are no auctioneers doing any work or 
> having any responsibility to Sellers, especially busting their butt 
> promoting the larger items to earn their fees; An auctioneer for the 
> Seller is typically under a consignment relationship - contradicting 
> eBay's case. For those complaining about Watchers being useless to 
> Sellers, check your basic assumptions. Watching is a tool for BUYERS, 
> not Sellers. It is not meant to be especially useful to Sellers.
>
> In a real auction, it may well be unethical to start the bidding and 
> then pull the item. But in a classified ad, the Seller has no 
> obligation to sell the item: no surprise - this is eBay, love it or 
> leave it - the Seller actually has no obligation (bids or not: not 
> something in anyone's interests to publicize) to sell and like the 
> newspaper could care less what happens: eBay.
>
> So actually the power of the Seller is the power to sell only when 
> convenient, and the disadvantage of the Buyer is that eBay commits him 
> to pay unless the Seller allows the contrary. If you look at eBay in 
> these terms, the protections need to be structured around the buyer. 
> Whatever your opinion,20it is wrong to confuse eBay with most common 
> auctions just because they call them "auctions". During (live) 
> "English auctions", the auction most of us assume when hearing of "an 
> auction", there is no "sniping", and other eBay self-crafted academic 
> auction crap, the auctioneer simply starts do I hear.... do I hear.... 
> do I hear.... once ... twice .... sold cycles until he is satisfied 
> everyone had plenty of time to bid and works for the benefit of the 
> Seller.
>
> Now I won't get too started on why government should regulate eBay's 
> monopolistic and bloated fees just as they regulate pawn shops gouging 
> and credit interest rates for consumer protection - it makes sense 
> until eBay is forced to be broken up just like AT&T was: to everyone's 
> benefit, it is too much power in the hands of two few billionaires 
> suckling their cash cow on our backs for too long. What we need is a 
> Linux version of eBay linking many independent auction sites in a 
> Bit-torrent fashion ... where independent escrow companies have equal 
> access to process buyer commitments. That would introduce the 
> competition where it is needed and online selling fees will plummet in 
> consumers favor and finish eBay as effectively as AOL died.
>
> http://joshreads.com/images/08/12/i081223bgss.jpg
> (meteorite impacts?)
>
> Best wishes,
> Doug
>
> PS - Everyone could humor Jim by watching this auction 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200387668267 !
>
> PPS - Mike Miller'
> s point about "spousal" consent was hilariously true ... (Loweezy 
> could spend hours gossiping with Elviney: Has any woman on the list 
> -or in the known universe- ever had her husband deny permission when 
> she wanted to buy herself a meteorite?)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
> To: Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:47 pm
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
>
> Or......?  they are just saving up money from cashing in all their 
> empty beer cans.
>
> Case in Point........?  Sikhote-alin stamp Buy It Now for $20- and I 
> have 9 of the left.?  It has 3 watchers:?  BTW the auction has had 
> only 25 hits since I loaded it !
>
> ? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200387668267
>
> Jim Strope
> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>
> To: nwa482 at comcast.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 11:12:49 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD... ? Time to get back to work
>
> "I have a question that has puzzled me for some time....... On a cheap
> item, $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it? "
>
> Hello Jim !
>
> Maybe the IRS.
>
> $20 is more money than 2/3 's of the current eBay prices in the
> collectibles category.
>
> Maybe they debate between (grocery=2
> 0shopping and cooking a romantic home
> cooked steak dinner for two), or (some old rock or 40-kopeck (USD
> $0.01) postage stamp).... so they put it on a watch list so it doesn't
> get lost.
>
> Or maybe long on bids and with a fixed perk budget. Losing other
> auctions, he would pounce on the $20 thingy.
>
> Maybe she is 11 years old and $20 is her week's allowance and she is
> waiting for her "paycheck". Or ditto, retired, fixed income, unemployed.
>
> Do you happen to have several of the same items for $20? Maybe one of
> your competitors thinks $10 has been the standard for whatever the item
> is, and he may be thinking, let's see how quickly Jim sells these at
> $20 !
>
> My money is on the latter,
>
> Kindest wishes,
> Doug
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
> To: Meteorite Central <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:51 am
> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
>
>
>
> After playing all summer, I find that I must get back to work. So I
> have
> started listing on ebay again. All items so far are buy it now listings
> with
> some of them accepting reasonable offers. Noteable items are a complete
> Portales Valley Stone, nice Esquel slices, complete Millbillillie,
> Gibeon,
> Planetaries etc, Link is below:
>
> http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com 
>
>
> I have a question that has puzzled me for some time....... On a cheap
> it
> em,
> $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it? It is only $20-
> and not
> an auction where you would want to know where it ended or wanted to bid
> at the
> last minuite? What is the logic behind cluttering your watched item
> list with
> this kind of cheap item?
>
> Good luck to all as I have some exceptional items offered and plan on
> adding
> more in the next few days.
>
> Jim Strope
>
> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list



From info at mineralesyfosiles.com.ar  Mon Sep 28 05:56:15 2009
From: info at mineralesyfosiles.com.ar (Eduardo)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:56:15 -0300
Subject: [meteorite-list] New fall in Argentina.
In-Reply-To: <4AC07B4F.8000405@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <B0000044169@webmail.abaco.net.ar>

Yesterday, 19:22hs local time a fireball with explosion and Earth shake 
was seen and felt betweeen Mendoza and La Pampa provinces in Argentina.

Please remember the Argentine law about meteorite falls. NO EXPORT IS 
ALLOWED. If anywone want to came and search for it is OK but you can't 
take the meteorites out of Argentina.

Some news (in spanish sorry):
http://www.mdzol.com/mdz/nota/162536-Un-meteorito-cay%C3%B3-en-General-
Alvear/

http://radio1alvear.com/

http://www.diariotextual.com/index.php?
option=com_content&view=article&id=2779

http://www.mediamza.com/nota/index/id/8850

http://www.laarena.com.ar/la_ciudad-%C2%BFmeteorito_o_basura_espacial_-
39284-115.html

Eduardo

P.S. 25 years without falls in Argentina and just after the new law 3 
falls in less than two years. That's not fair :-(



From info at meteorites.com.au  Mon Sep 28 06:34:21 2009
From: info at meteorites.com.au (Jeff Kuyken)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:34:21 +1000
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Birthday Murchison - 40th Anniversary
Message-ID: <8E863B20D57240CB9A5FFEA4E7B4D329@JeffPC>

Hi all,

On this day 40 years ago in 1969, one of the most famous meteorites fell to 
Earth in a spectacular fashion. It was the beautiful Murchison CM2 meteorite 
which has been the subject of much scientific interest over the last four 
decades. It's this meteorite which sparked much interest in the contained 
amino acids and the burgeoning theories of meteorites seeding life on Earth.

Happy Birthday Murchison.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&um=1&sa=1&q=murchison+meteorite

Cheers,

Jeff Kuyken
Meteorites Australia
www.meteorites.com.au
Director - I.M.C.A. Inc.
www.imca.cc


P.S. A friend of mine was in Murchison today and no one had any idea it was 
the 40th Anniversary even though there was a big celebration for the 30th! 
;-)




From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Mon Sep 28 06:37:46 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 28 Sep 2009 10:37:46 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Birthday Murchison - 40th Anniversary
Message-ID: <DIIE.000000870000406F@paulinet.de>

Jeff wrote:

"On this day 40 years ago in 1969, one of the most famous meteorites fell to 
 Earth in a spectacular fashion. It was the beautiful Murchison CM2 meteorite
 which has been the subject of much scientific interest over the last four 
 decades. It's this meteorite which sparked much interest in the contained 
 amino acids and the burgeoning theories of meteorites seeding life on Earth."

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&um=1&sa=1&q=murchison+meteorite

Hi Jeff and List,

and Friday, 12 Sep 1997, Ron Baalke posted this:

Amino acids have been found in Murchison and other carbonaceous meteorites.
There are two types of amino acids, one group which is characterized as being
"left-handed" and the other group "right-handed". Amino acids can be formed
from biological and non-biological means. However, it is interesting to note that
all life known thus far produce the left-handed amino acids. No one really knows
why life has a preference for left-handed amino acids. Murchison has been observed
to have an excess of left-handed amino acids. Is this an indication of life in the
Murchison meteorite? Under normal circumstances, you would expect an equal number
of left-handed and right-handed amino acids to form if they were formed from non-
biological means. Some people speculated that this is a sign of life in Murchison.
However, the excess of left-handed amino acids alone is not an indication of life,
as such an excess can be explained by non-bioligical means. The excess of left-handed
amino acids in Murchison is rather small, with the excess ranging from 2.8% to 10.4%.
In a paper titled "Distinguishing the Chiral* Signature of Life in the Solar System and
Beyond" given by Alexandra MacDermott at the SPIE conference in July 1997, she
explains how amino acids could be formed from non-biological means and show an
excess of either left-hand or right-handed amino acids. It has been clearly shown in
the laboratory that circular polarized light exposure can be used to force the selection
of which hand amino acids will be. MacDermott proposes that early in the formation
of the the solar system, it was exposed to circularly polarized raditaion of a passing
neutron star. Which pole of the neutron star facing the solar system would determine
which hand the pre-solar dust cloud would have an excess of. MacDermott concluded
that the excess of left-handed amino acids in Murchison was not due to biological means,
and an excess of amino acids on its own does not necessarily imply life. MacDermott
also remarked that if Richard Hoover's paper on finding possible microfossils in Murchison
(which was also presented the day before at the same SPIE conference) bears out to be true,
then she would have to rethink the conclusions from her paper."

* chiral / chirality = (of a molecule) not superimposable on its mirror image.

See also:

Cohen B.A. et al. (1998) Racemization of meteoritic amino acids (MAPS 33-4, 1998, A033).


Best wishes from late Summer
sunny Southern Germany,

Bernd





From jakub at meteorites.pl  Mon Sep 28 04:40:44 2009
From: jakub at meteorites.pl (Jakub Radwan)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:40:44 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] [AD] White's Goldmaster v/sat
Message-ID: <4AC0768C.70102@meteorites.pl>

I believe this one needs no introduction.

Excellent condition (easily 9 out of 10). Photos on request.

Price: $330 shipped


Thanks,
J.R.



From damoclid at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 28 07:44:48 2009
From: damoclid at yahoo.com (Richard Kowalski)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 04:44:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to work)
In-Reply-To: <4AC07B4F.8000405@meteoritesusa.com>
Message-ID: <507395.35735.qm@web33904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Eric,

I Googled the term auction sellers fees and found this page:

http://auctionbytes.com/cgi-bin/charts/chart.pl?Auction_Site_Seller_Fees

Scanning through it, it seems that most auction sites charge anywhere from 1.5% to 5.5% commission to the seller, plus either a listing fee, a transaction fee, or both.

Following the online payments link at the bottom of the page, it looks like most of the online payment services are in the same ballpark fee-wise as PayPal. I know credit card companies in the US charge retailers a 1% - 2% fee too...

I'm not being critical of you comments, and agree lower fees are better than higher ones for sellers and buyers, but I'm curious what auction houses charge in general. Its been a long time since I've gone to an auction in person, but I know that they usually charge seller fees AND buyers fees, so they get paid by both sides of the transaction.

Maybe to provide some perspective, Micheal Blood can comment about auction house fees?


--
Richard Kowalski
http://fullmoonphotography.net
IMCA #1081


      


From Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr  Mon Sep 28 08:58:07 2009
From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr (Zelimir Gabelica)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 14:58:07 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Birthday Murchison - 40th  Anniversary
In-Reply-To: <8E863B20D57240CB9A5FFEA4E7B4D329@JeffPC>
References: <8E863B20D57240CB9A5FFEA4E7B4D329@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <200909281258.n8SCwZ1Q003103@smtpmul2.univ-mulhouse.fr>


Thanks Jeff for this very significant reminder and for the link!
Murchison is by all means one of the most 
fascinating meteorites and undoubtedly still has 
a lot of mysteries hidden in its depths, waiting at being solved some day.

40th birthday totally forgotten ?
Not really....
We, a bunch of 9 people far from Murchison spot, 
did remember to celebrate that famous meteorite 
fall birthday by bringing a modest contribution 
to that issue ("Murch's" extraterrestrial 
contents) through sending to a prestigious 
journal a couple of days ago a (very serious) manuscript entitled:

"Murchison, 40 years later: unprecedented 
molecular diversity of extraterrestrial organic 
matter unraveled by non-targeted ultrahigh 
resolution molecular analysis" (contribution from 
4 different European research groups)

It was sent so that it reaches the editing 
staff....today, exactly 40 years after Murchison fell!

Sorry for the lack of details but you might 
understand we wish the contents to remain 
confidential for obvious reasons (original findings, exclusivity....) for now.
Hopefully more clues on our paper contents could 
be disclosed in the near future, thus after it is 
(possibly) officially accepted for publication.

My best to all,

Zelimir

At 12:34 28/09/2009, Jeff Kuyken wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>On this day 40 years ago in 1969, one of the 
>most famous meteorites fell to Earth in a 
>spectacular fashion. It was the beautiful 
>Murchison CM2 meteorite which has been the 
>subject of much scientific interest over the 
>last four decades. It's this meteorite which 
>sparked much interest in the contained amino 
>acids and the burgeoning theories of meteorites seeding life on Earth.
>
>Happy Birthday Murchison.
>
>http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&um=1&sa=1&q=murchison+meteorite
>
>Cheers,
>
>Jeff Kuyken
>Meteorites Australia
>www.meteorites.com.au
>Director - I.M.C.A. Inc.
>www.imca.cc
>
>
>P.S. A friend of mine was in Murchison today and 
>no one had any idea it was the 40th Anniversary 
>even though there was a big celebration for the 30th! ;-)
>
>
>______________________________________________
>http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
Universit? de Haute Alsace
ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
3, Rue A. Werner,
F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 



From nwa482 at comcast.net  Mon Sep 28 09:09:57 2009
From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:09:57 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to work)
In-Reply-To: <8CC0E15720884CF-3A24-B8D4@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <2053218504.8047481254143397555.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

Oh,,,,, thanks a lot Doug.  Now I have 6 watchers on this cheap item.!

On a side note, because of this listing, I made a $2200- sale off of my website.  Having my ebay name (catchafallingstar.com) correspond with my website name has had it's benefits over the years.  Ebay does not allow .com names anymore but I was grandfathered in.  My 12 year anniversary is coming up next month.

There are many complaints about ebay but it would be very difficult to gain the type of exposure anywhere else that ebay provides.  My accounting over the years confirms this.

Jim Strope
421 Fourth Street
Glen Dale, WV  26038

http://www.catchafallingstar.com/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com> 
To: nwa482 at comcast.net 
Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 10:41:25 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to work) 


Best wishes, 
Doug 

PS - Everyone could humor Jim by watching this auction 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200387668267 ! 



From GeoZay at aol.com  Mon Sep 28 10:44:13 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:44:13 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to work)
Message-ID: <c0c.6961a660.37f225bd@aol.com>

When it comes to wheeling and dealing   meteorites, I'm so far just a 
buyer. Some day I might sell a few just to adjust  my collection some to my 
satisfaction. Most of my purchases have been off ebay.  I make one or two 
purchases per month and I try to be picky and exact as to what  I will bid on. I'm 
often a Watcher with  several items on any given day  though, whether I 
intend to buy or not. I like to try to second guess the other  watchers if I'm 
interested in buying. I also like to get a feel for what similar  meteorites 
will sell for. This kinda helps me establish my highest price for  
something. It also lets me know what I might be able to get away with if patient  
enuf. Some sellers are their own worst competitor. They tend to sell meteorites 
 like car dealerships. They get in a bunch and just must sell or move them 
within  a week. Often offering 30%, 40% But Wait!  Even 50% sale discounts! 
I look  at these offers this way...They are discounts from a price that they 
can't move  because they are often over priced in the first place. As a 
buyer, I'm looking  for a bargain and settling with a cost that should be the 
price in the first  place doesn't appeal to me. For some reason I like ebay 
and if it wasn't for all  those disgruntled sellers, I wouldn't be there. 

While I'm on the topic  of ebay etc, another thing that turns me off is the 
"Buy It Now" items. Those  prices are usually jacked up and I just ignore 
them right off. And those that  take bidding with a minimum price along with 
a "Buy It Now" price, I also  ignore. There's simply no wiggle room to find 
a bargain. I visit ebay in the  first place to look for bargains. I'm not 
there to make sure a seller gets a  "fair" price. :O) If you have high 
overhead costs, then don't expect getting a  "fair" price there. I use to be a 
seller of natural gold on ebay and even then I  got less than what I thought I 
should be getting. But I also discovered that  although I was getting less 
off of ebay, I was getting more than what I got by  selling thru non-ebay 
places...such as jewelry stores.


>>Buyers  should be pissed about this too. Why? Because of what happens 
when sellers  incur more costs. They raise prices to compensate! This in 
turn not only  allows Ebay to earn even more from final value fees, but 
it cost the buyers  money too. Though in an indirect way.<<

As a buyer, this wouldn't  work on me. You raise prices to compensate, I 
just simply won't buy. Not all  sellers will have the same overhead. I'll just 
look for those with less and wait  for the desired item to show up 
cheaper.. Judging by the apparent glut of  sellers out there, the wait really isn't 
that long. 


>>I don't  know about you, but I think that's a whole lot of money! And 
buyers are  paying for it through higher prices charged by  sellers!<<


Again...those sellers with less overhead can afford  to accept lower 
prices. It's their edge over the "used car" salesman approach.  


>>How this email turned into an Ebay rant I don't really know,  but buyers, 
you should really think twice before buying on Ebay, considering  Ebay is 
raising prices indirectly and you're paying for it! Their practices  are 
so blatantly unethical it's ridiculous but we forget about it because of  
the great deals and excitement of the auction atmosphere.<<

I  have checked many meteorites for sale websites and generally the prices 
listed  there are higher than what I can eventually acquire off of ebay. As 
a buyer, so  far I like my odds on ebay. I also do enjoy the excitement of 
the auction  atmosphere.

>>Ebay is run by sharks, 
sharks that eat  money for breakfast. They drink melted gold from 
platinum goblets and smile  their diamond smiles all the while dreaming 
up new ways to drain sellers of  their hard earned money through endless 
fee increases and unfair and  unethical business practices. Buyers you 
pay for it too whether you realize  it or not.<<

Maybe so...but it's cheaper than most meteorite  websites.
George Zay  



From GeoZay at aol.com  Mon Sep 28 10:57:25 2009
From: GeoZay at aol.com (GeoZay at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:57:25 EDT
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to work)
Message-ID: <bee.4eb06fee.37f228d5@aol.com>

>>Most of my purchases have been off ebay.  <<
I meant to say that most of my purchases are from ebay.
geozay  



From meteoritemike at gmail.com  Mon Sep 28 11:25:02 2009
From: meteoritemike at gmail.com (Galactic Stone & Ironworks)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 11:25:02 -0400
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to work)
In-Reply-To: <8CC0E15720884CF-3A24-B8D4@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com>
References: <1588045665.7914471254095238104.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<8CC0E15720884CF-3A24-B8D4@webmail-m085.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <e51421550909280825s38cec1e4if49406c2210659c4@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Doug, Jim and List,

"Now I won't get too started on why government should regulate eBay's
monopolistic and bloated fees just as they regulate pawn shops gouging
and credit interest rates for consumer protection - it makes sense
until eBay is forced to be broken up just like AT&T was: to everyone's
benefit, it is too much power in the hands of two few billionaires
suckling their cash cow on our backs for too long."

Wow, Doug just described 75% of corporate America and 95% of Fortune
500 companies. LOL

Best regards and clear skies,

MikeG


On 9/28/09, Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com> wrote:
> "Or...... they are just saving up money from cashing in all their empty
> beer cans. Case in Point........ Sikhote-alin stamp Buy It Now for $20-
> and I have 9 of the left. It has 3 watchers: BTW the auction has had
> only 25 hits since I loaded it !"
>
> Hi Jim
>
> You're right: that is a case-in-point. But if Jughaid is saving
> aluminum cans to cash in, he's likely to be a way more decisive buyer
> than what you've described - the can collectors get my respects for
> being hard working and thanks for cleaning up the environment.
>
> I would say with 99% certainty that these case-in-point "The Watchers"
> are your direct competitors on the stamps. I'd also say with 95%
> certainty that you already knew that ... and just posted to let them
> know they are ubiquitously annoying Taters. And with 75% certainty you
> could guess exactly who the young 'uns are !
>
> The Sikhote-Alin stamps you are selling are actually really cool and
> the brochure that comes with them adds a lot of value IMO. But while
> browsing some of your other auctions, I think the exquisitely patterned
> Esquel slice among others is blinding us to the facts of life on eBay.
> So why even take the time to list minor items if other stuff you have
> is leagues above them - everyone has their needs and priorities ...
>
> Rant: eBay is a cruel mutation of a classified ad, where eBay Inc.
> learned to be unethical and call it an "auction" so they can fool
>
> people into taking a percent of the sale, rather than a simple
> insertion fee for screwing the seller (since when did newspapers worry
> about the final sale price - printing costs are the same).
>
> In fact eBay is not an auction in the sense of Blood's "English
> Auction" at all, since there are no auctioneers doing any work or
> having any responsibility to Sellers, especially busting their butt
> promoting the larger items to earn their fees; An auctioneer for the
> Seller is typically under a consignment relationship - contradicting
> eBay's case. For those complaining about Watchers being useless to
> Sellers, check your basic assumptions. Watching is a tool for BUYERS,
> not Sellers. It is not meant to be especially useful to Sellers.
>
> In a real auction, it may well be unethical to start the bidding and
> then pull the item. But in a classified ad, the Seller has no
> obligation to sell the item: no surprise - this is eBay, love it or
> leave it - the Seller actually has no obligation (bids or not: not
> something in anyone's interests to publicize) to sell and like the
> newspaper could care less what happens: eBay.
>
> So actually the power of the Seller is the power to sell only when
> convenient, and the disadvantage of the Buyer is that eBay commits him
> to pay unless the Seller allows the contrary. If you look at eBay in
> these terms, the protections need to be structured around the buyer.
> Whatever your opinion,20it is wrong to confuse eBay with most common
> auctions just because they call them "auctions". During (live) "English
> auctions", the auction most of us assume when hearing of "an auction",
> there is no "sniping", and other eBay self-crafted academic auction
> crap, the auctioneer simply starts do I hear.... do I hear.... do I
> hear.... once ... twice .... sold cycles until he is satisfied everyone
> had plenty of time to bid and works for the benefit of the Seller.
>
> Now I won't get too started on why government should regulate eBay's
> monopolistic and bloated fees just as they regulate pawn shops gouging
> and credit interest rates for consumer protection - it makes sense
> until eBay is forced to be broken up just like AT&T was: to everyone's
> benefit, it is too much power in the hands of two few billionaires
> suckling their cash cow on our backs for too long. What we need is a
> Linux version of eBay linking many independent auction sites in a
> Bit-torrent fashion ... where independent escrow companies have equal
> access to process buyer commitments. That would introduce the
> competition where it is needed and online selling fees will plummet in
> consumers favor and finish eBay as effectively as AOL died.
>
> http://joshreads.com/images/08/12/i081223bgss.jpg
> (meteorite impacts?)
>
> Best wishes,
> Doug
>
> PS - Everyone could humor Jim by watching this auction
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200387668267 !
>
> PPS - Mike Miller'
> s point about "spousal" consent was hilariously true
> ... (Loweezy could spend hours gossiping with Elviney: Has any woman on
> the list -or in the known universe- ever had her husband deny
> permission when she wanted to buy herself a meteorite?)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
> To: Mexicodoug <mexicodoug at aim.com>
> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:47 pm
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
>
> Or......  they are just saving up money from cashing in all their empty
> beer cans.
>
> Case in Point........  Sikhote-alin stamp Buy It Now for $20- and I
> have 9 of the left.  It has 3 watchers:  BTW the auction has had only
> 25 hits since I loaded it !
>
>  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200387668267
>
> Jim Strope
> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mexicodoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>
> To: nwa482 at comcast.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 11:12:49 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
> Pacific
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD...  Time to get back to work
>
> "I have a question that has puzzled me for some time....... On a cheap
> item, $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it? "
>
> Hello Jim !
>
> Maybe the IRS.
>
> $20 is more money than 2/3 's of the current eBay prices in the
> collectibles category.
>
> Maybe they debate between (grocery=2
> 0shopping and cooking a romantic home
> cooked steak dinner for two), or (some old rock or 40-kopeck (USD
> $0.01) postage stamp).... so they put it on a watch list so it doesn't
> get lost.
>
> Or maybe long on bids and with a fixed perk budget. Losing other
> auctions, he would pounce on the $20 thingy.
>
> Maybe she is 11 years old and $20 is her week's allowance and she is
> waiting for her "paycheck". Or ditto, retired, fixed income, unemployed.
>
> Do you happen to have several of the same items for $20? Maybe one of
> your competitors thinks $10 has been the standard for whatever the item
> is, and he may be thinking, let's see how quickly Jim sells these at
> $20 !
>
> My money is on the latter,
>
> Kindest wishes,
> Doug
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
> To: Meteorite Central <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:51 am
> Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
>
>
>
> After playing all summer, I find that I must get back to work. So I
> have
> started listing on ebay again. All items so far are buy it now listings
> with
> some of them accepting reasonable offers. Noteable items are a complete
> Portales Valley Stone, nice Esquel slices, complete Millbillillie,
> Gibeon,
> Planetaries etc, Link is below:
>
> http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=catchafallingstar.com
>
> I have a question that has puzzled me for some time....... On a cheap
> it
> em,
> $20- buy it now, why would anyone bother to watch it? It is only $20-
> and not
> an auction where you would want to know where it ended or wanted to bid
> at the
> last minuite? What is the logic behind cluttering your watched item
> list with
> this kind of cheap item?
>
> Good luck to all as I have some exceptional items offered and plan on
> adding
> more in the next few days.
>
> Jim Strope
>
> http://www.catchafallingstar.com/
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>


-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
..........................................................


From astroroks at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 28 11:55:59 2009
From: astroroks at hotmail.com (Dennis Miller)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:55:59 -0500
Subject: [meteorite-list] FW:  OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to work)
In-Reply-To: <bee.4eb06fee.37f228d5@aol.com>
References: <bee.4eb06fee.37f228d5@aol.com>
Message-ID: <COL113-W418C984F7BC85C05D78593B1D60@phx.gbl>



 



From: astroroks at hotmail.com
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to work)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:45:17 -0500



Hello All!  I guess I don't completely understand the rub with watching an item
on eBay.  Does it effect the selling process or prevent any other listing process?
I know that many consider buyers "Can selling buyers", but a great number of
us are just hobbyists and collectors.  During my 10 years of collecting, I have
bought from almost everyone on this list by means of ebay or at the auctions
in Denver and Tucson. I watch many auctions, just as reminders. My limited
budget for my hobby keeps me from shopping off of yous guy'ses websites. Wow,
some of you are really proud of your "meteorites for sale".  Please don't take
this the wrong way, help me to understand how we, the "Can selling hobbyist"
should behave.
The Collector Only
Dennis 
 P.S. I'm not a mouth breather and know
that "yous guy'ses" in improper grammer...
 
 
> From: GeoZay at aol.com
> Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:57:25 -0400
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to work)
> 
>>>Most of my purchases have been off ebay. <<
> I meant to say that most of my purchases are from ebay.
> geozay 
> 
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list





Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Bing?  brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place.   Try it now.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MLOGEN_Core_tagline_local_1x1

From nwa482 at comcast.net  Mon Sep 28 12:07:35 2009
From: nwa482 at comcast.net (Jim Strope)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:07:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to work)
Message-ID: <1331495169.8151661254154055830.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>

Hi Dennis......

Not a "rub" against watchers.  It really does not matter to me.  I was just wondering why someone would bother watching a $20- item listed as a "buy it now".  On such a cheap item it seems like a waste of time to me, I would either buy it or move on.  Buy hey, that's just me !

Jim Strope

http://www.catchafallingstar.com/


>>
>>
>>
From: astroroks at hotmail.com 
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com 
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to work) 
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 10:45:17 -0500 



Hello All! I guess I don't completely understand the rub with watching an item 
on eBay. Does it effect the selling process or prevent any other listing process? 
I know that many consider buyers "Can selling buyers", but a great number of 
us are just hobbyists and collectors. During my 10 years of collecting, I have 
bought from almost everyone on this list by means of ebay or at the auctions 
in Denver and Tucson. I watch many auctions, just as reminders. My limited 
budget for my hobby keeps me from shopping off of yous guy'ses websites. Wow, 
some of you are really proud of your "meteorites for sale". Please don't take 
this the wrong way, help me to understand how we, the "Can selling hobbyist" 
should behave. 
The Collector Only 
Dennis 
P.S. I'm not a mouth breather and know 
that "yous guy'ses" in improper grammer... 




From raremeteorites at yahoo.com  Mon Sep 28 12:14:40 2009
From: raremeteorites at yahoo.com (Adam Hupe)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 09:14:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - Special Auctions Ending - MUST SEE!
Message-ID: <202206.94266.qm@web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Dear List Members,
 
I have several auctions that are due to end today, tomorrow and the 
following day. I loaded a special 10-day auction due to end this week as I do 
every September. You will find much larger pieces than I normally offer on eBay 
and started all of them out at just 99 cents. 
 
This is the best time to look for bargains! 
 
All Auctions Can Be Found At This link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ

Over 
$10,000 of Planetary Material Started At Just 99 Cents. Material gets more 
valuable as you scroll down:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200386571606
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140347545272
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140347545461
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140347547709
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140347754669
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140347755225
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140347755446
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200386975425
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200386975776
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200386977387
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140347336458
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140347336932
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140347338997
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140347339139
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140347339677
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140347341219
 
Only Two Pieces Left Of The ENIGMA STONE:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140347342447
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200386214807
 
BANDITO'S PICK - Maybe The Smallest Complete Bensour On Earth:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140347335715

Very Nice Crusted And Large Unclassified Started At Just 99 
Cents:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140347342091


And way too many more fine examples worth looking at can be found at 
this link:
http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/raremeteorites!_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ


Thank 
you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck.


Best 
Regards,

------------------------------------
Adam Hupe
The Hupe 
Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
raremeteorites at yahoo.com


From mail at mhmeteorites.com  Mon Sep 28 12:17:32 2009
From: mail at mhmeteorites.com (Matt Morgan)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 16:17:32 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD-Updated Site w Denver Show Items
Message-ID: <1494376987-1254154744-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2046899832-@bda677.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>

Hi:
I have finished the first round of updates with some of the items I picked up at the Denver show.
http://www.mhmeteorites.com

If you see something you like and care to make an offer, please drop me an email.
There are some very nice items.
Matt Morgan
----------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215 USA


From jbaxter112 at pol.net  Mon Sep 28 13:05:12 2009
From: jbaxter112 at pol.net (James Baxter)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:05:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Birthday Murchison - 40th Anniversary
In-Reply-To: <8E863B20D57240CB9A5FFEA4E7B4D329@JeffPC>
Message-ID: <1898394820.298841254157512314.JavaMail.root@zmcs01l-pol-08.portal.webmd.com>

Hi Jeff et al.,

I think the prettiest Murchison I have ever seen belongs to Al Lang. He was kind enough to let me pick it up and examine it up close. It's perfectly oriented and complete. Here's the picture on Al's site:

http://www.nyrockman.com/museum/murchison-295.htm

Cheers, 
Jim Baxter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Kuyken" <info at meteorites.com.au>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 3:34:21 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Birthday Murchison - 40th Anniversary

Hi all,

On this day 40 years ago in 1969, one of the most famous meteorites fell to 
Earth in a spectacular fashion. It was the beautiful Murchison CM2 meteorite 
which has been the subject of much scientific interest over the last four 
decades. It's this meteorite which sparked much interest in the contained 
amino acids and the burgeoning theories of meteorites seeding life on Earth.

Happy Birthday Murchison.

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&um=1&sa=1&q=murchison+meteorite

Cheers,

Jeff Kuyken
Meteorites Australia
www.meteorites.com.au
Director - I.M.C.A. Inc.
www.imca.cc


P.S. A friend of mine was in Murchison today and no one had any idea it was 
the 40th Anniversary even though there was a big celebration for the 30th! 
;-)


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


From bernd.pauli at paulinet.de  Mon Sep 28 13:08:53 2009
From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
Date: 28 Sep 2009 17:08:53 UT
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy Birthday Murchison - 40th Anniversary
Message-ID: <DIIE.0000005C00004072@paulinet.de>

http://www.nyrockman.com/museum/murchison-295.htm

Hi Jim, Jeff, and List,

Wow! That's Australia's answer to Bob Haag's Venus Stone!

Cheers,

Bernd



From daistiho at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 28 13:47:01 2009
From: daistiho at hotmail.com (tracy latimer)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:47:01 +0000
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
In-Reply-To: <e51421550909271137u749e54d6q4f1bbdb3f5d67f1f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <244722240.7775241254066677700.JavaMail.root@sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
	<8CC0DB541776919-820C-15303@webmail-m021.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <SNT120-W495CB8624B53FC76E76F1ACAD60@phx.gbl>


 <e51421550909271137u749e54d6q4f1bbdb3f5d67f1f at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0


I often watch BINs while I am bidding on other auctions.=A0 I allocate myse=
lf a certain 'allowance' for meteorite buying=2C auctions and BINs alike.=
=A0 BINs often are a little bit too expensive for me=2C but if the price on=
 an auction shoots through the roof=2C or I get outbid at the last second=
=2C I will consider an alternate BIN of sufficient attractiveness.=A0 If th=
e price on a BIN is good=2C I will buy it then and there=3B otherwise=2C it=
 may take some consideration and change-counting.

Best!
Tracy Latimer

----------------------------------------
> Date: Sun=2C 27 Sep 2009 14:37:19 -0400
> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com
> To: mexicodoug at aim.com
> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com=3B nwa482 at comcast.net
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD... Time to get back to work
>
> Hi Jim=2C Doug and List=2C
>
> eBay is a fickle mistress.
>
> I have heard one well-known dealer describe eBay as "a hell for
> sellers and a heaven for buyers."
>
> I've been selling collectibles on eBay for about 10 years - since the
> days before PayPal (remember BillPoint?) and the behavior of other
> eBay members has always confused me. I try to make sense of the whims
> of the market and just when I think I have it figured out=2C the bidders
> (or the sellers) throw me a new curveball.
>
> I concur with Doug's conclusions about watching a cheap BIN item.
> There are many reasons behind this phenomena - some financial and some
> that are quirky at best.
>

 		 	   		  =0A=
_________________________________________________________________=0A=
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail=AE.=0A=
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tut=
orial_QuickAdd_062009=


From l.pizzimenti at tiscali.it  Mon Sep 28 07:47:29 2009
From: l.pizzimenti at tiscali.it (Pizzimenti Luigi)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 13:47:29 +0200
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 79
References: <mailman.100.1254135065.19868.meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Message-ID: <A2755BC59F204AE4A8417F5093D23F86@luigi>

I agree with Eric
to avoid making fat ebay and paypal, we have to 
move the purchase of meteorites through our 
websites.
I put a little items from eBay, but  I sell on my 
site. Here's what you must do:
small transactions to be known and big sales away 
from eBay.
We have many dealers and collectors lists where 
sign up and check our prices.
Ebay is let him who will start selling today.
As a candidate for the board of IMCA will take my 
proposal to avoid a lot of money go to ebay and 
paypal.

Regards,
luigi pizzimenti




----- Original Message ----- 
From: 
<meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2009 12:51 PM
Subject: Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 72, Issue 79


> Send Meteorite-list mailing list submissions to
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide 
> Web, visit
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or 
> body 'help' to
> meteorite-list-request at meteoritecentral.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> meteorite-list-owner at meteoritecentral.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so 
> it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Meteorite-list digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. eBWW - Watchers Welcome, Bidders 
> Encouraged - AD (Greg Hupe)
>   2. Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - 
> September 28, 2009
>      (SPACEROCKSINC at aol.com)
>   3. Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: September 
> 21-25, 2009 (Ron Baalke)
>   4. OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to work) 
> (Mexicodoug)
>   5. "flow lines" on weathered irons (was 
> "question on cleaning
>      irons") (Piper R.W. Hollier)
>   6. Re: AD... Time to get back to work 
> (Meteorites USA)
>   7. Re: "flow lines" on weathered irons (was 
> "question on
>      cleaning irons") (Jason Utas)
>   8. Re: OT eBay (was AD Time to get back to 
> work) (Meteorites USA)
>   9. New fall in Argentina. (Eduardo)
>  10. Happy Birthday Murchison - 40th Anniversary 
> (Jeff Kuyken)
>  11. Happy Birthday Murchison - 40th Anniversary
>      (bernd.pauli at paulinet.de)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:28:18 -0400
> From: "Greg Hupe" <gmhupe at htn.net>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] eBWW - Watchers 
> Welcome, Bidders Encouraged
> - AD
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: 
> <8AC3F6798CC44EC7BAB98E046FB10F5B at Gregor>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; 
> charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> eBWW - (eBay Bidder Watcher Warning),
>
> Hello One and All, I have 14 excellent eBay